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Mel Robbins

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I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

1251.906

That's really good, but we need you to get kind of cranky for our podcast. Oh, get fucking ready because I haven't eaten. So it's about to be like cranky and hangry and I'm ready. All right. I'm going to start it. What have you had it with, Mel? Oh my God. I've had it with the headlines. I've had it with narcissistic and inconsiderate and immature behavior.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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I've had it with... Oh, I've had it with the number of freaking cardboard boxes that come in the house and that are so hard to... You know how hard it is to like flatten those things? It drives me freaking crazy. I've had it with my dog barking all the time. I've had it with certain people's moods in my life.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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I've had it with how tired I am at the end of the day and how that's impacting my sex life. Like, do you want me to keep going?

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Here's how you're going to get through it. You're going to let them. And I'm going to tell you why. So narcissistic behavior and personality styles. This blew my mind when I learned this. And I learned this from Dr. Ramani Diversala, who's the world's leading expert on narcissism. Did you know that narcissists are not born that way? Really? I didn't know that. I didn't. So there's two basic ways.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Either there's a complete overindulgence of the child and there is a messaging that we are better than. And so that is the narcissistic style that you see in people that are over the top and completely rude to other people and completely entitled. And there's so much of that in our society today. And it is, I'm done with it. I've had it, right? Right. But you've got to let them be who they are.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Because the number one rule about narcissistic behavior is that they're never going to change. Right. Most people who have a narcissistic personality style do not know that they do because it's all they've ever known since childhood. And that brings me to the second way that narcissistic personality styles are cemented in childhood. And this is the very sad way.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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It is through emotional neglect and abuse. See, there's a certain behavior range during which empathy develops in a human being. And once that range actually passes in terms of the age range, where this thing called attribution and empathy, you're able to actually understand it and practice it, if you pass that window, it's not coming back.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And what happens for kids that are emotionally neglected or abused is that because they're not seen and because they feel invisible and because they're not getting their needs met through no fault of their own because they're a child,

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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They put up these walls with the world around them to protect themselves, and they never develop this ability to step into somebody else's shoes and consider how they might feel. And this explains a lot of our parents. A lot of our parents never actually got the emotional support

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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kind of nurturing or their needs met and that brings me to saying let them with anybody in your life that's narcissistic and this is particularly true with family members is there is nothing that you can do that will ever change who this person is and the more that you play into the dynamic with them the more stress it's going to create for you because you keep showing up hoping

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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hoping that they will change. And I'm here to tell you the power's never in the other person. The power is in you and your response to the other person. And that's how you take responsibility for yourself. That's how you take responsibility for the relationship. Because responsibility is just the ability to respond.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And responding differently to immature people, inconsiderate people, stressed out people, or narcissistic personality styles, that changes everything.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Yes, I can. So there is absolutely nothing you can do. Nothing you can do to stop this person from acting out, from being basically a six-year-old entitled child throwing a tantrum inside a big body, breaking laws, saying whatever they want to say, doing whatever they want to do. Nothing you can do to stop that person's actions, opinions, thoughts, behavior.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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So focusing on that person is a complete waste of your time and energy. Allowing that person to terrorize you or to make you afraid does not empower you to actually do the second part of my let them theory, which is when you say, let me. Let me remind myself that I always have power.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Let me remind myself that no matter what idiot is in office or behind the microphone, I still have control over my thoughts and what I do in response. I still have control over my feelings. And if this person scares me, I've given them power. If this person makes me feel small, I've given them power. Let me remind you what Professor Margaret Mead said, which is true about history.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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All it's ever taken is a small group of concerned citizens to change history. And if you're concerned about what's happening, don't commiserate. Get into action. focus on what your response is gonna be instead of anticipating what this idiot is gonna say. Because we all know he's gonna break the law. We all know he's gonna do things that are crazy.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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We all know that he's going to throw things at the wall and see what sticks, why? Because this is what he's always done. He's an agitator for crying out loud. So why on earth would you allow this person to agitate you? You're not. You're gonna let them be who they are. But then you're going to focus on the let me part. Let me be the wiser, smarter fox in this situation

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And while the hen is clucking around the farmyard, kicking up all kinds of dust, doing a bunch of nothing, I am going to be outsmarting this person because I'm going to take my time and energy and I'm not going to be commiserating because I know that anytime I'm bitching about this person, I'm actually giving them power. I'm going to focus on how I'm going to respond.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

1754.594

And by the way, we're going to be ready four years from now because he's going to make a giant mess. Let me ask you this.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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It reveals that you're human because we bond by what's in common. Right. And so it has been around since the history of time. that we have all bonded over our shared enemy. We have bonded over the things that we feel we're against. And what my message is, is this. It doesn't matter what's happening outside of you. What matters and where the power is, is in here, inside of you.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And what this moment is telling me, and I think why these words, let them and let me, are resonating, is because we do live in a moment of time where the headlines are terrifying, where politics, whether you live in the United States or anywhere around the world, are scary. I mean, look at the fires that are spreading all over the place in California right now.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And the truth is there are always going to be things outside of your control. And there are moments in life where it is appropriate to mourn and to bitch and to commiserate and to be scared and to grieve. And then there will come a moment where you got to pick yourself back up and you got to recognize that your power is not in the things you can't control.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Your power and the possibility in your life is in your response and in what you can control, which is what you think, say, and do in response. And so to me, I've already given four years to this idiot. I'm not going to give a single fucking second to him again.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And I'm going to focus on what I think and what I say and what I do and showing up in a way in my life and in my community and on the issues that I care about in a way that makes me proud of myself because that's where my power is. Because you have power over getting out of bed and putting one foot in front of the other and how you show up today. And that's where you need to focus your energy.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Actually, I think you're happier and I want to unpack a couple of things. So number one, one of the most profound things that has not left me since I spoke to some psychologists and psychiatrists and neuroscientists in researching, like why the hell does let them and let me work, right? Is somebody said, people only get sober when being drunk or drugged is harder than doing the very difficult work

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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to change and address the things you're running from. And it's a really important statement because what none of us realize is that people only change when they're ready to do the work to change. And that's not an easy thing for anybody to do because the brain in a human being is wired to do what's easy and pleasurable right now. This is why we sit on the couch instead of going for a run.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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It's why someone's listening to this. The person listening to this podcast has probably thought about starting a podcast. It's easier to listen than to start one. In order to change, you have to fight against human wiring and do something that's very hard and do it over and over and over again. This is why people don't change until they're ready to change. They're not going to change for you.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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They won't change for their kids. They don't change for anybody but themselves because you have to get to a point. I mean, this was me. This was my story. And I realized at some point you're going to hit your own rock bottom in life when you just go, I don't know what I want, but I don't fucking want this. And you don't have to know what you want in life to change your life.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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You just have to be willing to admit that what you're doing isn't working anymore. And I do believe that people are one decision away from a different life. And the decision that changed mine was deciding to get out of fucking bed one morning on a Tuesday morning in 2008 when I didn't think it would make a difference to get out of bed.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Instead of laying in bed like a human pot roast, marinating in fear and anxiety and overwhelm and thinking about all my problems and how mad I was at my husband, embarrassed I was at where we are, and we had pulled the kids out of town soccer because we couldn't afford it.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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getting out of bed, five, four, three, two, one, boom, move, taught me that number one, no one's coming, you gotta do it yourself. Number two, you can take action when you don't feel like it. And when you learn that that's a skill to do something, even though you don't feel like it's gonna work, even though you don't feel motivated, learning how to do that is a superpower.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And that's what put me on a whole different train. And what I want to say to you is that over and over and over again in listening to you, you did step two of the Let Them Theory. You kept saying, let me. Every time he relapsed, you were saying to yourself, let me remind myself of who I married. Let me remind myself that this isn't my train wreck, it's his. Let me remind myself I'm going to stay.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And in doing so, you created space for him to heal on his own timeline, which is not an easy thing to do. And you also created space for you to take ownership of your part of it, which is I'm in this codependent thing, and this is shit from my childhood. And in staying...

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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You made a decision, the two of you, to work through things that probably would have been repeated in your children had you not done the work. And now you're in this incredible relationship where you've got two people coming and choosing to be together. And I think that's an incredible thing.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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I mean, I've been married 28 years and you can look at my relationship now and it's the best it's ever been. But we have been like you through like neck deep manure. Oh, yeah. For a long time. And, you know, in a relationship like.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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i think i often think in a marriage like it's a lot like being on a seesaw sometimes you're up they're up you're down they're down sometimes you're in balance the key to a lasting relationship is first of all both people have to want it to work yeah and both people have to do the work to make it work and the in any relationship that blows off

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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you'll notice that way before it blew up, somebody got off the seesaw. And you stayed on. I'm not advocating for everybody to stay on because I think oftentimes you need to leave. But you made an empowered choice. And I think what you got in return is probably a relationship that is a hundred times deeper and more powerful and unshakable than what you had before.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

2510.253

Yeah. Because I think one of the biggest things that people do in their marriages that destroy their children is they trash their partner or their ex to their children and when somebody does that that is a sign of massive emotional immaturity it is a form in my opinion of abuse i agree to do that to your children and so the fact that you were able to hold your together

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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through five relapses and everything that you're not and actually hold a line with yourself. So let him be in his addiction and let me stay in my power and hold this boundary with myself because that's what I value. That is not a casual thing. That is not something that most people can do. And I'm going to tell you something.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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If I roles were reversed and Chris had been relapsing five times, I would have fucking bad mouthed him to those children. I would have created alliances because I did not know what I know now. And I was a walking red flag in the level of emotional maturity that way. And so I just want to applaud you because that is not a little thing. That is everything.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

2673.188

Because you think you're going crazy. Totally. And here's And here's the other thing I want to say about this, and this again goes to, there's one thing in life you can't control. It's another person and what they think, do, say, feel, what they believe, and you also cannot control when they heal. And what I wanted to say about this that I think is really important if you're really

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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struggling right now is that that auto mom mode, I would call that middle school and high school for my children. I was in that mode because my husband ultimately left the restaurant business. And if we were going to save the house and ever pay the bills, it was on me. And so I went into go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go mode, working three jobs. My husband's getting sober. He's bottomed out.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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He's taking care of the kids. I was not present. but here's how I want to relieve anybody of the guilt. Because you're going to look back or in the middle of it, you're going to feel guilty because I'm not present with my kids. I'm exhausted. I can't do this. I can't be there. Think about what you value. What is your highest value?

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

2744.709

And for me in that period of our life with liens on the house and bills sky high and my husband trying to like overcome depression and alcoholism and me, like I got to pay the bills. I got to pay the bills. I got to keep the lights on. My highest value is safety. And when you're in debt to that extent, it is an excruciating and relentless level of anxiety.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And so I was able to go on to autopilot mom mode like you were and not punish myself because I kept reminding myself, I'm focused on the most important thing right now.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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I think your instincts are dead on. I think you've gotten very good at ignoring them. That's probably right.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Well, here's what I'm going to say about that. I actually think the high road feels superior. It does. Because if I take the low road, then I just gave power to somebody I despise and I refuse to do it.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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I want to go lower. That's okay. You've got a punch beneath the gut. And also, keep in mind, when you're in that show, the point of the show is to talk politics. And you've got to get in there. If somebody throws a punch, you're going to throw a punch back. But in life... I used to take the low road. I used to be tit for tat. I used to be transactional and have to get the last word in.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And what I've realized is there's just so much more fucking power in not playing the game, not taking the bait. All right. Had it or hit it, helicopter moms. Oh, had it. You're creating anxiety in your kids. You're causing them to fail. You are making them dependent upon you and making them doubt themselves.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Of course, because you are, through your own actions, allowing your worry and your anxiety to have you step in and write the paper or the college essay exam or call the coach and bitch about something. I think it's honestly disgusting. I remember when our son...

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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was first diagnosed with dyslexia, and we moved him from the public elementary school to this school outside of Boston for language-based learning disabilities. They told us, if your child forgets their lunch, do not drop it off. I thought it was the cruelest thing in the world, but what they were trying to communicate to us is that the consequence of not having it

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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and then getting this sad sack lunch and being bummed creates the pain. Remember, people only get sober when being drunk is harder than doing the work to change. Same exact principle. The pain of not having the thing that you wanted actually organizes the internal forces that help you remember the next day or help you want to remember.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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And so it's so important that you allow your kids to struggle. It's important that they pay their own bills. It is important that you have boundaries with them. It is important that they lose the job or they struggle with friendship because that's how they feel the pain in life that's necessary. to tap into that potential desire and possibility to change.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Well, and here's another thing. So I used to be the kind of person that lived in fear of disappointing other people, lived in fear of like, what if things don't work out? I'm going to be disappointed, whatever. Isn't disappointment a good thing? Yes.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Like if you can't make it to that 44th birthday party where everybody's splitting the check at the Mexican place with eight people and they're disappointed that you can't make it, isn't that awesome? Because doesn't that mean they wanted you there? Let them be disappointed. Isn't it amazing if your kid is actually disappointed that they didn't make the team? Let them.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

3148.998

Oh, shit. I'm in the middle because everybody does them wrong. I think that manifesting and vision boards are absolutely critical things. mindset and brain programming tools, but everybody does them the wrong way. And here's the mistake. Everybody manifests the thing. So like, let's just say you, what do you guys want? You want a beach house? Like, what do you want? What are you manifesting?

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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We'll take a private plane.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Okay. So here's the thing. So two biggest mistakes that people make is number one, they manifest when they're stressed out. So you're in traffic, you're driving like, I hate my fucking life. I hate my job. I'm going to I'm going to just envision me on a jet right now. It doesn't work based on the science. This comes from Dr. Jim Doty from Stanford, because when you're stressed,

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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the amygdala is in charge. And in order to manifest properly, you actually have to be calm. And so you should be manifesting first thing in the morning when you wake up as part of your morning routine. And the reason why is if you're not actually in a resting, calm state and your prefrontal cortex isn't engaged, you can't lock in the programming of the jet. That's number one.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Number two, the big mistake that everybody makes is you manifest the thing. You envision being on the plane. That's not the right way to do it. And the reason why is because you're just jumping to the end. The proper way to do it is I want you to close your eyes when you're in the calm state. And I want you to envision and rehearse all the grueling, shitty things you have to do.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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to make a jet a reality. The late nights in the podcast. No, I'm dead serious. The negotiations, the saying no to contracts, the things that go your way, the books that you write, like all these things that happen along the way that are hard, you're just now like an Olympic athlete rehearsing the turns in your mind before you do the course. Because what manifesting is, It is the intentional act

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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of rehearsing and programming in your mind the work that you need to do to achieve the things that you want so that your mind and your nervous system are programmed to recognize anything that is related to it so that it pops into your conscious mind and you start to see connections. And so the more that you manifest while you're calm and you manifest the process, the better.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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The vision board can have all that stuff up there, but in addition to the plane, I want you to have some imagery of you two working late at night. I want you to have some imagery of stacks of papers of your multiple manuscripts that you're writing before the book so that you're both seeing the result and you're also seeing the effort.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Of course. The blonde hair. If I weren't a jealous bitch that couldn't handle being in a thruple. I don't know that I could handle it.

I've Had It

Let Them be A**holes

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Oh my gosh. Thank you for the invitation. I'm cheering for you too. And amazing job. All right. Thanks, Mel. Bye-bye.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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I believe you are one decision away from a different life.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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That's why we navigate our lives around people's moods because it's easier than actually being a mature adult and calling people out in a kind way because it's easier. And when you understand that you're hardwired to do what's easy and you're also hardwired to resist what feels hard, you now understand how basic wiring sets you up to never change.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And it's why you always are going to need to push yourself. And I want to go back to the example of the comparison, right? So comparing yourself to other people's normal, that's not the problem. The problem is what you're doing with the comparison. And so this brings in the second- Like the power you're giving it? Oh, you're looking at it completely wrong.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And then of course you make yourself feel bad for doing something that's normal. And so I'm gonna like flip this on its head for you. So the second thing that changed my life was discovering the let them theory. And it's a very simple mindset hack that has two steps.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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The first step is whenever somebody is stressing you out or annoying you or making you worry or feel bad about yourself or hurting you or pissing you off, that's normally the one for me.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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You're just going to say let them. And it's kind of crazy because the second you say let them, you instantly release control. And then what you're going to do is you're going to say, let me. Let me remind myself that in life and in this moment, there are only three things I can actually control. That's it. I can control what I think about this thing.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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I know for a fact that it was her who sold this to the media. You can always leave any relationship, any dining room table, any text chain. You're not stuck. That's a lie you tell yourself. I hope you know how many lives you've changed.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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I can control what I do or I don't do in response to the situation. And I get to control what I'm going to do with my emotions. Am I going to allow myself to feel them or am I going to let them run me over? That's all you have. And the problem in life is that we all have a hardwired need, Chloe, to feel in control. It's what makes you feel safe.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And it's why you want to feel in control of your thoughts and your future and your relationship and the amount of money you make and who your friends are and all this stuff. You want to feel in control because it's what makes you feel calm and confident and safe. We're never going to get rid of that hardwiring. Everybody needs to feel in control.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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I mean, Chloe, it got to the point where I would I was the kind of person that would literally lay in bed and hit the snooze button four or five times a morning. And I was hung over and I would lay in that bed and I would stare at the ceiling and I would think about the problems and I would think about how much I hated my husband. and how ashamed I was at where we are in life.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And the one thing you'll never be able to change is another human being.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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People only change when they're ready.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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That's true. But knowing it up here doesn't mean you do it in your body.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And for me personally, I can't put intellectual concepts to use. I have wanted to let things go my entire life. I have never been able to let anything go because I'm competitive, I'm type A, and plus when somebody says to me, you gotta let it go, Mel, I'm like, well, that feels like defeat. And I don't wanna let it go. I'm gonna hold onto this thing like a dog with a bone because I don't want to.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And the difference in discovering let them and let me is when you say let them, what's happening is you're not letting go. You're rising above it. You're seeing somebody or seeing a situation as it is, probably for the very first time, And you're detaching when you say let them.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And you also recognize something really important, that your time and energy is your single most valuable resource in life. Yes, it is. Because where you pour your time and energy is what your experience of life is. And so when you say let them, you stop putting time and energy into someone or something or a dynamic. that just is beyond your control.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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You recognize that your time and energy matters. So you're gonna take that time and energy back. And then you're gonna say, let me. Let me remind myself that I get to choose. where I put my time and energy.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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You also have very different circumstances than most people. And so here's the thing. It's a sign that you're mentally well, that you are concerned about the well-being of your children. And it is important that you are really a helicopter parent about their safety. But here's where I want to change the way you look at this. Do you want to know who's the hardest working kid in a classroom?

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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The one who's failing. The kid who's getting A's, yeah, they're putting in a lot of work, but the person who is struggling, is working harder than anybody else. Same thing's true with all your friends. The friend that is struggling with their weight, they're working harder at their health than the person that goes to the gym every day. Why?

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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And my kids would be standing next to the bed. And they were the reason why I would finally get up. And then of course, when I got up, oh my gosh, it wasn't like I was some like, hmm, kind of person. I'm like, ah, screaming at them. And so they start their mornings like this. And how can you expect your kids to have a good day at school if they start with you screaming at them? And

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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Because every human being knows when they're not thriving. Right. Everyone knows when you're giving up on yourself. Every one of your girlfriends that's in a relationship with somebody that treats them poorly knows it.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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I mean, was it helpful for people to come in when you were with like your ex-husband and be like, you should be with somebody better. You should be putting up with this. Does that help?

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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Why?

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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Uh-huh.

Khloé in Wonder Land

Change Your Mindset ft. Mel Robbins

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Uh-huh. And what you need and what your kids need and what we all need is first we need people in our lives to let us, to see us, to accept us, to stop judging us. And to truly approach these moments where someone in your life is in a situation where they're not reaching their potential, not with judgment. And I know best and pressure.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I am now.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Because when I rush in and step in.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Well, for sure. But you know, when I rush in and step in, you know what I'm actually communicating? That I don't think you're capable.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Correct. Right. And every time that you do that, you're reinforcing, you're not strong enough to face this disappointment. You're not able to do this on your own without mom rushing in. And when you take a little step back and you have your arm around them, you're not doing the work for them. You have your arm around them. You're actually saying to them,

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I believe in you and I'm going to be here and I'm going to walk by your side, but I'm not going to plow the way. And I can give you an example. So when our daughter was, she was in middle school and she started waking up in the middle of the night and having this terrible anxiety and she'd come downstairs and I would just let her climb in bed. And for the first night or two, it was fine.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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But then it started to become a real problem because she didn't want to go back to her room. So for six months, I let her sleep on the floor of our bedroom. And you know what I did? I actually made her anxiety worse because anxiety is so misunderstood. Anxiety is a moment of uncertainty, which we all have. And some of us have them every day.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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It's a moment of uncertainty when you doubt your capacity and capability to get through it.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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That's all that it is. It's just a little alarm. Things are uncertain. I'm a little nervous. I'm a little afraid.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And then we instead of just taking a breath and saying, I have the ability to do this and reminding ourselves, like instead of going up into our heads and going, well, what if this and what if this and working ourselves up, which only makes the fear and the anxiety worse, instead of going up in our heads, drop back down in your body.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Take a deep breath because then you reconnect with yourself and you say to yourself, I'm capable of doing this, even though it's kind of scary.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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So all you need to do Because here's what happens for all of us. And I want to come back to helping you use let them and let me. Because the person who hit play on this episode, who's spending time with us right now, is struggling with the exact same thing that you're struggling with. And it's the exact same thing that I struggled with profoundly up until two years ago.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And it goes back to this notion of the power that we give to other people. And learning to say, let them. And recognizing what's in your control and what's not in your control. And then taking the power back by saying, let me. helps you achieve the things that you want. It helps you feel the way that you want to feel. And it helps you leverage all of the dreams and the desires that you have.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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So let's talk about an example that I think applies to you launching this podcast. Okay. So, you know, when you open up social media and you are picking a photo and for me, like I'm picking a photo and then I'm like, this is how I used to be. I like, okay, well, you know, and then I pick a different photo Or then I'm putting a filter on the photo. And then I'm writing a caption.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I'm like, is this too much? And then I put a little emoji on there. And then I go back, back, back, back, back. And then I finally hit draft. If everybody were to open up their social media, you would see thousands of saved drafts. That is the graveyard of your dreams and self-expression. And why does that happen? I'm going to explain why that happens.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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In the moment that you're picking a photo to post online, And you start to analyze the photo and analyze the caption. And you start to think, is this good enough? Is it too much? Is it this? Is it that? Is this going to be... For who?

Khloé in Wonder Land

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For who? In that moment, we just defaulted to thinking about what someone else is going to think, feel, or do in response to what we're about to do.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Well, even worse. You ready? You can't control it.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I'm sure there's a tremendous number of people in your life that have high expectations for you, whether it's your sisters or your mom or your kids or your business partners or the world around you. Learning to let people be disappointed will change your life. And when it comes to your family, this is something that I've struggled with because I love my family. It's a huge value of mine, right?

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I want to make sure everybody's happy. But when you learn that disappointment's a good thing, Because when your mom's disappointed that you can't show up for something, you know what that means? I mean, she loves you.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Well, so for parents here, let's talk about emotional immaturity because it's just off the rails right now.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Oh, for sure. Because everybody's all excited and heightened. And again, like the let them theory is something to use with adults, but the adult that you're going to use it with is yourself. And so I choose to believe that almost every adult that you meet is an eight-year-old in a big body. It is so liberating to think this. Everybody's just an eight-year-old in a big body. That's all that we are.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And for me, that kind of defining moment in my life came on a Tuesday morning in February in 2008. Wow. And I woke up like I had for six months in a row. And the anxiety was pinning me to the bed like a gravity blanket. And, you know... I knew I needed to get up. I knew I needed to look for a job. I knew I needed to ask for help. I knew I needed to tell my friends what was going on.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And when you look at it that way, you're not going to be afraid of people. The next time you run into somebody who's got a very narcissistic personality style, you're not going to be nervous. You're just going to be like, oh, let them. There's a little eight-year-old throwing a tantrum. Not my job to parent them.

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So I'm going to let them because I know that there's nothing I can do to change that situation over there. And I also know my time and energy is literally way more valuable than trying to deal with this. So I'm going to let them because I get to choose. Let me decide how much time and energy I pour into that relationship. And

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I want to remind you and the person that's spending time with us right now that you can always leave any relationship, any dining room table, any text chain, any conversation, any date, any interview, any job. You're not stuck. That's a lie you tell yourself. Right. That keeps you stuck.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Well, here's the thing that's important to understand. And it's something that I'm concerned about. And I can tell in the question you are, too. There's an extraordinary rise in estrangement and people ghosting each other and cutting people out of their lives. And to me, that's all a sign of emotional immaturity.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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If you can't have the conversation, it's one thing to have the conversation with somebody and talk about what is bothering you, and then you have to let them.

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And if a person cannot meet you where you need to meet where they where you need them to meet you, then it's let me let me choose how much time and energy I'm going to pour into this. And so you're always in control because you're in control of your time and energy and what access you give to people. But if you haven't had the conversation, then you're the one who's the problem.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And the thing that I think you're talking about is that it is so easy to look at your parents and judge. And I want the person listening and the person that they share this to, to really consider that this is your parents' first time being a human being too. And they can only give you what they're capable of giving to themselves. Most of our parents never went to therapy.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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They didn't get the things that they needed in their life emotionally from their parents. And from generation to generation to generation, we get a little bit better But if you don't like what's happening in your family or in any friendship or in your marriage, the power is not in the other person changing. The power is in you changing. You changing your mindset. You changing your approach.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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You changing the energy. Like, that's the power. It just takes one person. And so, you know, it's important to realize that every single kid in a family has different parents. Mm-hmm. They have a different childhood and everything that happens impacts them differently. And that is a medical and neurological fact.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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So if you and I sit here and we look back in time and I look at everything that has happened in my life, good or bad, I can sit here with you today, Chloe, and I can say, oh, I can see exactly how this all makes sense. I might not have liked it. I might have wished it had gone differently.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I might have seen a lot of things that was not my responsibility and that should never have happened to me, but I can see how it all in this just beautiful, divine, sometimes crazy, upsetting way, it led me to this moment.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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But have you ever been in a situation in your life where you know what you need to do, but you just can't make yourself do it?

Khloé in Wonder Land

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No, I'm serious because I, you know, I'm bitching about being in debt and how it paralyzed me and the shame that I felt. But in those moments, how did you organize the strength to actually get through? I mean that with all sincerity because I think there is something that I can learn that you can share.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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There is some way in which you dug deep, whether it was just anchoring down on your children or armoring up, but how did you actually get through that?

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Thank you. Thank you. ,,, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, in, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Wanting that for somebody is an amazing thing. It means you love somebody. The problem in my life is that I went about it in the exact opposite way that you should go about it. See, I was always working against human wiring and I never knew it. And so in the example that you just shared, what was happening there is the truth. Human beings only change when they feel like it.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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So there's lots of things. And for, and you know, some other examples might be you're on a date and somebody's rude to a waiter. Interesting. Take note. Right. Or they say they're going to show up and they don't show up. Interesting. Take note. Or they only say I love you when they're drunk. Interesting. Take note. Right.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And the thing you need to do and why I love saying let them is because you're not allowing it. A lot of people are like, wait, when I say let them, am I letting them walk all over me? No, you already are. Right. When you say let them, you detach. You actually see who you're dealing with, probably for the first time. And then you get a little superior, like let them. Okay. All right.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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So I'm with somebody that's rude. I'm with somebody that only says this. I'm with somebody who doesn't want to put a label. I'm with somebody that is doing too much partying. Let them. And then remind yourself, this is who this person is. This is what you're signing up for because people only change when they feel like it.

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And then you've got to start saying, let me, let me remind myself, I get to choose what kind of relationship I put time and energy into.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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I'm deeply honored that you have allowed me to come here, that you invited me, that you trust me with the people that follow you around the world, because my work is about one person at a time. That I don't think about all the people that are going to be impacted by this, which they will. I think about you and how you're impacted by our time. And I think about the one person that actually

Khloé in Wonder Land

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made the time to hit play and spend time with you and me. And I am deeply proud of you for starting this. And I love that this conversation is going to not only improve and empower the life of the person that was listening, but as they share this episode, it's going to send positive ripple effects and tools and hope to people around the world who need it.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And see, we all have a fundamental need to feel in control of our lives. Now, this is all stuff that I have only learned recently. I mean, I am the textbook for screwing things up and falling in a hole or digging one and then lying in the bottom of a hole and being like, when is somebody coming? Isn't somebody going to pay my bills and make my dreams come true? And like you said, no one is coming.

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So thank you for giving me this opportunity to be with you and co-create.

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I love you.

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Yes. And at some point you're going to realize you don't need anybody. Right. And as long as you are focused on everybody else, you'll never actually see the truth, which is you have everything in you to pick yourself up, to admit what you want. And sometimes if you don't know what you want, just tell yourself what you don't want.

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Like I didn't know in the darkest moments of my life, like that moment being 41 and just about to lose everything. I didn't know what I wanted. It's not like in that moment where you're in a hole, you're literally like, I think I want to be a motivational speaker. That's not what happens. You basically go, I don't want to live my life like this. And I don't want to lose my marriage.

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And I don't want to be a emotional bitch all the time to my kids. I don't want to see my house go under under bankruptcy. And if you know what you don't want,

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Well, how could you not? How could you not? Your emotional and mindset response to something that hurts you or that didn't go as planned is to be disappointed or to have you question whether or not you can trust certain people.

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For you to be heartbroken when somebody that you love is not able to do the very hard work to get sober or to show up in the way that you deserve to have somebody show up, it's a sign that you're mentally well.

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When you react to those things in the way that you did. And that's an important thing to understand. Because if you then think something's wrong with you... because this person won't heal. Now what's happened is you've taken on the burden of actually making everyone else happy. And I didn't understand this for a very, very long time.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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And so there were two things that have fundamentally changed my life. The first one is that there is a skill in life, Chloe, that absolutely any human being can learn and they need to learn it. And the skill is very simple. You need to know how to push yourself to take the small, annoying, frustrating, boring actions, no matter how you feel.

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One decision. Now, one decision does not change everything overnight. One decision turns the first domino in an entirely new direction, and you tip it. And one decision actually turns your life on an entirely new trajectory. And for me, the decision that truly changed my life was deciding to get up on a Tuesday morning when I didn't feel like it.

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And all I did was count backwards, five, four, three, two, one, the same way that NASA launches a rocket ship, because I figured if I'm laying here in bed, consumed with anxiety, Maybe if I launch myself out of bed, Chloe, if I launch myself, maybe if I move fast enough, I won't be in this bed. When the depression, the overwhelm, and the anxiety strikes. And by God, it worked.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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The counting, the reason why it works is because counting backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, it interrupts all the negativity that is programmed into your mind from your past, from what other people have said, from all the mistakes that you've made, from the anxiety, the worry, the procrastination, all that stuff, the people that have broken your trust. That's all right here. And it is real.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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But you still get to choose. Right. And when you start counting backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, you move from here to here. And this is the part of the brain right behind your forehead that actually helps you take control of what you do next. It helps you learn new behavior. And as you count backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, now we're leveraging physics. This is so cool.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Well, I think I have lost sight of who I am. And For most of my life, I really struggled. I mean, whether it was crippling anxiety or having ADHD and not knowing or dyslexia and not knowing. And so it wasn't until I hit my 40s and I got myself into a situation, and we all find ourselves in these situations in life where the life that you thought you were going to have

Khloé in Wonder Land

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All I have to do is count backwards and now it's like neuroscience and physics. I didn't know any of this at the time, by the way. I just knew I created some little trick that was given to me by God. And now all of a sudden I'm 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, picking up the phone and asking for help. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, I'm going out the door and going for a walk.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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5, 4, 3, 2, 1, I'm putting down the phone and I'm picking up a book or listening to a podcast that might help me. And slowly but surely, one five-second decision at a time, I learned this skill that I want everybody on the planet to know. Mm-hmm.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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which is if you can, in a moment, recognize that your feelings are taking over and you're starting to drift toward the things that you always do, you avoid, you procrastinate, you self-doubt, you make yourself wrong, that in that moment, you can develop a skill of, I actually move in the direction of my values and my dreams. I move in the direction of taking care of myself.

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And that is what began a whole new life for me. And we all need to know this.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Oh, Dr. Doty.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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It's even more than a pep talk because here's what I want you to consider. Everyone's obsessed with morning routines, right? Right now. And they should be because how you start the day is actually how it ends up. And there's tremendous amount of research about the first thing in the morning that you consume.

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And if you put garbage in, you're going to have garbage out in terms of your emotions and your feelings. I mean, if you pick up the phone first thing in the morning, you are actually allowing the entire Internet to come into your bedroom and into your mind. And now you have put everybody on the planet in front of you and your dreams and your mental health.

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And so one of the biggest habits that anybody could start to do, and nobody will, nobody will because you don't want to. And people only change when they want to. But I'm going to tell you what will change your life is don't sleep with your phone. Literally, put your phone in the bathroom. I do this probably 95% of the time.

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is not the one that you're in. And for me, what that meant is my husband and I found ourselves $800,000 in debt, three kids under the age of 10, friends and family had invested in the business. And I had never had a vision for my life of being an alcoholic. or getting divorced or not being able to get out of bed.

Khloé in Wonder Land

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Put the phone in the bathroom because then when you wake up, you don't actually grab the phone and look at it in bed. And if you are in a moment in your life where you're tired or overwhelmed or you're chronically comparing yourself to other people or you're stressed out or you're not achieving your goals or you're not actually as happy as you deserve to be, The problem isn't you.

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Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of science around this. And I personally find that it is so helpful to kind of understand what's going on in the background because then I don't feel like a loser idiot. And I realize, oh, wait, this is just basic brain wiring. Like, why aren't they telling our kids?

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And especially if my kids had had been in school at your kids age, they should be telling kids this. Our brains are wired to do what's easy. Full stop. That's why we sit on the couch. It's easier than going to the gym. That's why we avoid the conversation. It's easier than picking up the phone and starting the conversation.

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When somebody leaves that you love, you think you're unlovable. You actually think you're never gonna find it again. You hate yourself. That's why most of the advice about this is complete bullshit. Go love yourself? How the hell am I going to go love myself when the person I love more than anything just left me? I hate myself. I despise myself.

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I am terrified of the day that they're going to meet somebody. I'm never going to find that again. I'm never going to have sex like that again. You hate yourself. And so telling somebody to just go on a revenge diet or you gotta love yourself, it's horrible. Instead, I want you to face reality. They left, let them. And then let me grieve. And follow my therapist Ann Daven's advice.

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You have to do a 30-day detox. And if you are somebody that's been holding onto somebody that left a year ago, I guarantee you, you have not gone 30 days without listening to a voice memo or looking at a photo. You are keeping them alive, which is keeping you trapped in something that's dead. And your inability to let them go and let them leave

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And then let me accept reality and start moving forward. And let me believe that the person that I am meant to meet, they are in the future. They're not in my past. And by the way, even if you kind of hold out secretly hope, it might be the person from the past. It might be, but they're not the version from back there.

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And neither are you. And so you have to, again, come back to where the power is. It's not in getting them back. It's not in making them jealous. Because if you focus on making that person jealous or blah, blah, blah, where are you putting your power?

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And something you can't control. You have to put your power here. And the reason why I love the 30-day rule and the 11-week mark is because it's the truth. This is gonna suck. The only way to get over someone and to go through heartbreak is to go through it. There's no avoiding it. There's only delaying it.

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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Because we don't want to accept people as they are.

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When somebody breaks up and leaves or cheats on you, they have just revealed who they are. For sure. And your inability to accept it Instead of explaining it away and living in a fantasy up here, that's what's keeping you from having and creating the love you actually deserve and want in your life.

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It's true. And here's the other thing. Why are you pretending to be this person's friend and not bringing it up? Why is it on them to tell you the truth? Let them lie to you and then... Come to the let me part. Aren't you pretending that you're their friend if you haven't brought this up? And you're actually holding that in your head, right? There are so many applications of this, Jay.

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It's just incredible. And the thing that I'm really, really excited about is that, you know, the other massive thing that I think this is gonna help people with is that one other way that you make people a massive problem is that you see somebody else's success or happiness or the things that they achieve in their life as somehow robbing you of yours.

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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And the thing about life is that you're never playing against people, you play with them. And somebody else's success, happiness, love, like the things that they achieve, it's in limitless supply. And when you wrap your brain around the fact that happiness, love, money, like all of it, limitless supply. So other people can't block your way, they actually lead the way.

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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And so if you let them lead the way and you see their wins not as your losses, but you see it as an example to follow, You now stop making other people a problem and you stop using them as an excuse for why you can't do what you're capable of. Other people don't block you. You block your way. Allow people to lead the way. And the way that you do that is you say, let them be successful.

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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Let them get married, let them have the baby, let them have the nice car because they're showing me what's possible. And the cool thing about really embracing let them in that regard is that other people also show you the formula. Right?

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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But if you're so busy going, oh, well, Jane launched a podcast and there's too many podcasts. Now I can't launch podcasts. Who's blocking you?

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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Correct. You're capable of learning to be a better player in the game of life from other people.

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Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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So stop playing against them and let them show you the way.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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No, because this is a fundamental role, everybody. Number one, you cannot change another human being. It is impossible for you to change somebody else. Now you can influence them. But you cannot change them. People only change if they feel like it and if they can. And wanting and wishing is a wonderful thing. Wanting and wishing somebody to be cleaner and to pick up after themselves.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Wanting your kids to be more motivated. Wanting the people that you love to take better care of themselves and to be healthier or to date somebody that is normal and healthy instead of the losers that treat them like crap. That's a beautiful thing for you to want for other people. And you deserve to do that and you should do that. Wanting people to change is not the problem.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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wanting bigger possibilities for people is not the problem. How we go about it is. And so in the scenario that you're talking about, this is a beautiful example, because you have to say, let them. You see the dishes in the sink. It makes you upset because you feel disrespected and that's annoying.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And you have higher standards for cleanliness, which means you're probably just going to do them anyway. And then you're going to feel like you're really taking whatever for granted, but you have to say, let them. And one of the reasons why is because, number one, if this is a long-term committed partnership, learning how to love somebody as they are is a form of love that is deeply important.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And if you can't say let them in that moment, you are going to get frustrated and angry, and then you are going to come to the next part of the let them theory with tremendous intensity and judgment, and that's not gonna motivate change. What it does when you judge somebody or you push against them is it actually creates resistance to change.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So you have to say let them because it allows you to detach from your emotions and detach from judgment, right? It is what it is. I see what's happened. I'm accepting the reality of this. Let them. Then you come to the let me part. Is this something that bothers you? And if it is, remember, you got three things. I can choose what I want to think about this. And so you could think a good thought.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You could think, okay, good intention. They were probably super busy this morning and they meant to do it later. Let them. Okay. I'm going to choose to believe that. You could also then remind yourself, let me remind myself there's something I can do about this. Right. And if it's really important, what you need to do about this is have a conversation.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And by the way, Chris has had this conversation with me a bazillion times. So if you walk into our bathroom, Chris's bathroom probably looks like your side of the sink, which is it's like a Zen seven star hotel, Jay. Like there's not a speck on that man's like basin or whatever you call it. If you look at mine, it looks like somebody tipped over a Walgreens aisle on top of that thing.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it drives Chris crazy. But what particularly drives him crazy is when something migrates from my side to his side, right? And so he's asked me, he's asked me to please keep my stuff over there. He has asked me to please flatten cardboard boxes when they come in. Don't please pack, don't unpack them and then stack them by the garage door as if I'm supposed to do it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And he's asked me and asked me and asked me, and then I forget. Well, he finally sat me down, Jay. And this is the let me part. You have to take responsibility for explaining to somebody what you need and the reason why this is important to you. Because when Chris said to me, I know you don't intend this, but this is the impact, Mel.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When I see the cardboard boxes stacked or I see your hairbrush and 15 products of yours on my countertop, it actually makes me feel like you think I'm the maid.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And we don't even have a maid. Like, it's just like, it makes me feel like you think it's my job to clean up after you. And that doesn't make me feel loved. Now, when he took the time in a very calm way to drop into his values and communicate what he needed, something interesting happens.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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If you're in a committed, loving partnership and you're with somebody who wants to do better and cares about you, it taps into their intrinsic motivation to build new skills. If you have that kind of conversation with somebody,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And you explain how their behavior impacts you, whether it's their drinking or it's the tone of their voice or it's the fact that they leave their stuff everywhere or it's that they insist that you spend every holiday with their family and they have no interest in your, whatever the issue is, if you sit somebody down and you take responsibility, you've let them be and you've let them shown you who they are,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You have a customer that's really rude. You lose a big account. You get passed over for something. As you notice the stress come up, Jay, you're simply going to say, let them. If you focus and try to manage things that are never going to be within your control, it only creates stress, anxiety, and frustration for you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then you say, let me sit down and talk about this and take responsibility. I have the ability to respond to this like a mature adult. And you actually express what you need and why. And that person doesn't try. You have to let them. And here's why. Their behavior is telling you the truth. Their behavior is telling you what they care about and what their priorities are.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And if their behavior is telling you that your needs are not a priority, You have to let them reveal that.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes. Because then you're going to come back to the second part, which is let me ask myself, is this kind of behavior from somebody what I deserve? Is this what I'm willing to accept in somebody? Because again, what do we also know? People only change when they want to or they can't.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And you might be in a situation where somebody would really love to change, but they can't because they're dealing with some challenge right now or they don't have the skill yet. And you may decide, if that's the case, to still love and accept the person.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But there may be times where you have had the conversation And it is very clear they're capable of it. They just won't do it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And what I find in relationships where that sort of invisible distance and the frustration and the resentment comes up is twofold. Number one... You can't detach from your emotions and say, let them, and really fully just let the person be who they are.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And you don't do the part, let me, where you actually take responsibility for expressing in a mature way what you need and how their behavior impacts you. And so if you don't ever express what you need and how it's impacting you, you're not actually giving somebody the opportunity to build a skill or to change or to love you the way that you need them to love you so that you feel loved.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The second mistake that I see constantly is that you make the ask, and then the person doesn't do it, and then you start making excuses and resentment builds. And you stay in something, seeing exactly who someone is, wishing they would change, living up here in your mind about the fantasy of what you wish this was, refusing to accept the reality of what it actually is.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I still get to choose. I get to choose how much time and energy I pour into this, whether it's this issue or it's this topic or it's this person. And here's how you know if you can actually love somebody for who they are and who they're not. Can you end your complaining and bitching about it?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You have no idea right now how much time and energy is being wasted or drained because of other people's behavior or your expectations about how you wish things would go.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because if you can't do that, then this is something you're holding onto and you're holding over the other person. And if they're never going to change, you're going to have a problem.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because the only thing that's going to make the relationship better is either them hearing you and caring enough and being able to adjust or you being the one to adjust because it's your complaining about it that is creating the friction and the resentment. And this is not only with romantic relationships. Like when I think about the broader applications of this for family,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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There are very challenging people in my extended family, just like everybody's family, right? And so there's always one person in your life that you wish there just wasn't drama with. You wish they didn't have a challenging demeanor or personality. The Let Them Theory has fundamentally, profoundly changed my relationship also with people that have been difficult.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because when I say let them, like let's say you're talking, we're talking about somebody who's very narcissistic or dramatic or victim. It's always about them and very draining person to be around. Well, part of the reason why they're draining is because you brace and you get ready for it and you allow their energy to impact you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And I always find it funny, Jay, that especially in families and at work, we allow the most challenging person to have the biggest impact on the whole system. So if you have one person that's narcissistic in their personality style or that is very, very dramatic and immature in their personality style, they're the one, if you imagine a spider web, right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I think about a system of relationships like a spider web and you're out in the morning, the do's on it. When you have a challenging person, because we all tiptoe around this person, that person's energy is like tap, tap, tap, and shakes all the dew off. I believe the opposite is true, especially after learning the let them theory.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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This is, I think, my legacy. I think that this is the thing I was supposed to figure out and leave the world.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because there's been people in my life, both in work life and in my family life, where when that person's around, I literally shrink to eight years old. I'm dancing around their mood. We all have had an experience like this. Maybe you're thinking about a boss or your mother or your father-in-law or a brother or whomever, an adult child, right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When I walk into these situations now and I say, let them, let them be who they are. Why am I making it my job to manage their mood? Why am I pouring time and energy into this drama? Let me manage my energy. Let me remind myself I can remove myself from any dinner table, any family text chain. I can remove myself from an interview, a date, a conversation, a relationship anytime I want.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And I believe, Jay, that the person that is the most peaceful and centered and powerful because you understand the power of your energy and your thoughts and your actions, you actually have more power in any family system and any office building in any room anywhere than the most challenging person.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Well, here's the thing though, Jay. Because I think it's a really important point that you're bringing up, but here's what I think you're going to discover. I think you're only attached to it because you don't value your time and energy.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're only attached to it because you've never experienced anything else. And the reason why you're used to it is because in the relationship dynamic of you're up in your head, usually in a relationship, explaining away behavior instead of actually seeing it with clear eyes and detaching from it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And that's the other reason, and I know you knew this instantly, that the let them theory and saying let them and let me, one of the reasons why it's so powerful and I'm so excited is I feel literally like I am surrounded by ancestors

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because this is a modern application of ancient philosophy, spiritual guidance, stoicism, detachment theory that you can then apply in any moment in any relationship. And what I also love about this, Jay, is that I think... it allows you to truly see people, perhaps for the first time, and to give them the space to be who they are.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And from that space, what's amazing is you can let people, for example, a lot of us are very triggered and motivated when somebody's disappointed, or we think that somebody's gonna really be let down by us.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And I had this huge breakthrough because I used to feel really guilty, either by how much I work or the fact that Chris and I raised our kids on the East Coast and my parents are in the Midwest. And, you know, I love my parents and I wish we all lived together. But here's the thing. They're not moving to me and I'm not moving to them. We got to let them, right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But there's a lot of emotion about it. And I know your family's all over the place, too. So, you know, you're nodding like, I'm not saying anything because my family listens to this, Mel. So here's the thing. If I don't go home with my family for the holidays, my parents are disappointed. Let them be disappointed. I mean, isn't that a beautiful thing that they're disappointed?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Don't you want somebody to be disappointed that you're not coming?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Right? Yeah. Like whether you can't make it to a business engagement or you can't make it to a birthday party. Or you can't make it this year home? I mean, what's the alternative? That they're like, thank God Jay's not coming. I can't stand him. No, seriously. Like really wrap your brain around this. And so when you say, let them be disappointed, something beautiful happens.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You actually honor their experience of being human. You allow them to be adults.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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That is a sign, that emotion, that things are really good in your relationship. Yes. But then you say, let me. And the old me would twist myself in knots and then I would make myself feel bad and then I would question what I was doing and then I'd bend over backwards and try to be there and try to be here. And instead, when I say let me, I drop into my values. I deeply value family.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so if they're disappointed, that's not the reason I would change plans. I have to look at what do I think, what do I want to do, and how am I going to process my emotions? And so as someone else is disappointed, the old me would feel deeply guilty and conflicted. Now with the let them theory, I have space for them to be disappointed and for me to feel a little sad.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But if I change plans, I don't do it for them. Because if I change plans for them, guess what I just did? I made them the villain in my life. If I change plans because it makes me feel like a good daughter, it makes me feel good. Now I take responsibility for my life and I am owning my decisions. And it's a small nuance, but it's absolutely everything.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Everything.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And the other reason why I love this, especially as a parent of adult children, and, you know, there are very... This is a book about adult relationships. And so... I make it very clear in the book and there's resources for parents with younger kids in the back.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But one of the coolest things about this is that when you let someone like have their emotions and you let someone struggle while you say, I'm on the sidelines and I'm here to support, but I know that the greatest teacher in life is life. And I'm not going to shield you from the consequences of some of the things that you're choosing. You're an adult. So I'm going to let you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you allow someone the space to process emotion and the space to face their struggles and the space to heal on their own timeline and in their own way, you actually communicate that I believe that you can.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you step in and try to force somebody to be more motivated at school or you, let's just take that one. Because there's a lot of people that listen to my show, and I'm sure it's the same people that are listening to yours, that write in are like, I don't know how to make this person more motivated.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Right? For sure. And so here's what I want you to understand. And this was another huge breakthrough when I was writing this book. Do you want to know the hardest working person in a classroom, Jay? It's the kid who's struggling. It's not the people that are getting straight A's. It's the person who's having a really hard time.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You want to know the hardest person that's working on their health? It's actually the person that's unhealthy. because they know that they want to be healthier. And so they are not stuck, they're in deep conflict actively within themselves.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so if somebody is already aware that there is a gap between their potential and how they're performing, that there is a gap between their God-given right to thrive and be happy and be connected and what their life actually feels like, they know it. And then you come in and try to impose your will or your good ideas. Oh, thanks a lot.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It's an excellent question. So first, let me... no pun intended, let me explain the theory. So in case you haven't bumped into this online, the theory is very simple. It is a mindset tool that instantly helps you identify what's in your control and what's not in your control.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So I never thought that if I wanted to get good grades, I needed to study and not play video games. Thank you, Einstein. Oh, I should go to the gym if I want to lose some weight? Never thought of that. So you come in and you have judgment and assumptions. What is it that's more pressure on top of somebody who is actually already deeply conflicted with themselves? Yeah.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so if you really embrace this and you understand that people change when they feel like it and when they can, and if somebody's struggling, it's because they're not able to right now. There's a skill that's missing. And one of the biggest things that's typically missing is the belief that any of the small actions will actually do anything anyway.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so you coming in and imposing it, you know what that says? It actually says, I don't believe you can do this.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because you can't.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes. And it's control.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're not, like, if you think about what love really is, and for me, love is two things. It's consideration, right? It's having someone in mind. If you pour in oat milk instead of the cow milk, because that's what they like, that's an act of love. It's also admiration. And admiration is the ability to see something in somebody that you deeply admire.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The reason why this is important is because any psychologist will tell you that if you focus and try to manage things that are never going to be within your control, it only creates stress, anxiety, and frustration for you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I want to go back to something that you said though, because it was genius. And it had me think about the idea of the power of your time and energy. And you were talking about, imagine if like your time and your energy had dollars associated with it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because I don't think we value it. And I started to think about one of the biggest obstacles. Because what's ultimately happening when you start to use let them and let me is you're going to see that you've turned other people into a major problem. And you have turned them into a problem in four ways.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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First of all, you allow them to stress you out, but you're not going to do that anymore because you're going to let them be. But the second way that you've made them a major problem in your life is that you give so much weight to other people's opinions. And in the example you were just talking about, what was happening is by asking you, what do you think?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Roddy was doing what we all do, but most of us do it subconsciously and we don't even realize it, which is before we even ask ourselves what feels right for us, we stop and consider what we think somebody's going to think. And you have that like really brilliant thing that I've heard you say a bazillion times that I love. It's not what you think, you think a thing.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And I'm like, wait, but so I want to play this out because this is so important, was a huge thing for me. If you open up your favorite social media platform, We've all had the experience where you go and you pick a photo and you then put it up and you're like, okay, should I put a filter on this? And you start to then question, is this the right photo?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then you go back to your photo roll and then you start working on the caption. Should I put emoji? Is this too much? Should I do this? And then you are worried, why? Because you're actually thinking about what other people are going to think or do in response to what you're posting.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Which means if you take the value of it, right? You just overvalued something that you will never be able to control. Ever. Ever, ever, ever. And yet you're doing it subconsciously. And what typically happens is if you notice, everybody's got hundreds of draft posts. You know what that is?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you take the context of work, there is so much inside your day-to-day life at work that is irritating, it is stressful, it is annoying, from the endless meetings and no time to get work done, to if you're somebody that is working in a retail store, you're doing shift work, you don't have control over what shifts you get, to feeling like you don't have the chance for promotion.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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That is a graveyard of energy you wasted on something that you'll never be able to control because the average person has 70,000 random thoughts a day. You can't even control half the crap that goes in your own mind. So what makes you think any post is going to guarantee that any human being thinks anything

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And the let them theory revealed to me, Jay, how often I was subconsciously valuing someone else and that, like, are they going to think negative? Are they going to think this? Are they going to think too much? And there's such a simple way to change this. You just let them think negative thoughts. That's it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The next time you catch yourself stopping to consider what you're going to post or what your colleagues might react to, and that's what's keeping you silent, say to yourself, let them think negative thoughts. Because that's what you're actually afraid of. And so when you say, let them think negative thoughts, something wild happens.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You accept the reality that no matter what you do, it doesn't guarantee that anybody thinks anything. And then you say, let me. And here's where this gets really cool. Let me remind myself I can think what I want and I can do what I want. And your social media in particular, as you and I both know, it's your self-expression. That's what it's there for.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And if you can't allow yourself to express yourself there, then it's going to be everywhere where you edit yourself because you're not just letting people think negative thoughts. For sure. But if you operate in a way now and you now take the value, you take the money back, we're not going to pay Jay the money for his opinion.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I'm going to take the money back and where I'm going to put the value is operating in a way that makes me feel proud of myself. Because when I operate in a way, whether I'm posting something or I'm speaking in a meeting or I'm showing up and not responding to my dramatic whatever, I'm proud of myself.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And when you're proud of yourself, you don't even consider what other people are thinking because you've just anchored all of your worth inside of yourself.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And that's why, this is another reason why this is so unbelievably powerful.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes, and Let Them, two words, gets rid of this fear.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It is just endless. And the way that you're gonna use the let them theory is anytime something is happening at work, that stresses you out. You have a customer that's really rude. You lose a big account. You get passed over for something. Your idea gets dismissed in a work meeting. As you notice the stress come up, Jay, you're simply going to say, let them. Let my boss be in a bad mood.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it's- No, but they can.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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See, I don't think they have the tool.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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See, here's the thing. If you're worried that people are gossiping about you, let them. Let them gossip about you. Here's why. You can't control it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes. And so if you can't control it, why on earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It's an act of self-torture. So if you are worried that people are gossiping about you, first of all, let them gossip about you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because they're going to do what they're going to do because you cannot change what other people do. You can't control what they think. You can't control what they do. If they're going to gossip, they're going to gossip. So let them gossip. And when you say that, it's a relief because you actually acknowledge the thing that you've been afraid of and it's like you're allowing it without allowing it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But then don't forget, you have power.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself. I get to decide what I do and what I don't do, whether or not I respond or not. And I get to decide who I spend time with. And so the bigger question becomes, if you're busy worrying about, which means you're expending time and energy, people who are gossiping about you, Why would you wanna be friends with them?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so now you take responsibility for your own part in chasing people that aren't treating you in a way that you deserve. And you recognize that the power here is in just letting people be. And when you let people be, your relationships get better because people reveal who they are and where you stand, and then you get to choose how much time you spend or not.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And not everybody in your life deserves an explanation. They don't deserve a response necessarily. And so you also get to choose who you tell your story to or who you apologize to or how you respond to it. And that's where your power is. And I'm not saying this makes it easy. Because you're probably in a situation like that, going to have to say, let them, let them, let them.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then you're going to see them on social media and you're going to be like, should I block them? Should I not block them? Are they going to see if I do that? Should I not? Let them, let them know their lives. And if I want to unfollow them, let me do that. Because I get to choose what comes into my space or not.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And when you start to really play around with this, because one of the big pushbacks that I've gotten in the research is, what, am I just going to be a doormat? I'm going to let people abuse me? I'm going to let people... No. Actually, it's the opposite. Because you're probably allowing it right now and then explaining it away. When you say let them... You're letting somebody's behavior speak.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then you have to bring it back to yourself and say, I've got to let them reveal who they are. And if this person keeps gaslighting me or not including me, now I've got to ask myself, is this actually the relationship for me?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I do. I think everybody's really busy and life is very overwhelming. And you have no idea what's going on in other people's lives. And we've gotten to a point in today's world where if I text you, I expect Jay to respond. And if Jay doesn't respond, then I make it mean something about Jay or me. And I hate that because it doesn't give people grace.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Let my colleague take credit. Let the customer, like, be rude to me. And here's the thing. This sounds almost like you're being a doormat and you're being passive. It's the exact opposite. When you say let them, you're recognizing that the situation right now that has just happened has already happened and that there is no reason to allow it to stress you out.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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We're constantly expecting people to show up a certain way and then judging them when they don't instead of stopping to consider that other people have lives and other people have a lot of things going on. And sometimes when people go silent on you, it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with a crazy busy period in life.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Or it has to do with the fact that something's going on with their family. And they're so drained at the end of the day that the last thing they want to do is talk to anybody. And so I do think we expect too much because relationships feel very like transactional. You do this for me, I do this for you. I text you, you better text me back.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Now there are rules in terms of just being courteous to people. and being gracious to people. But I'm deeply concerned, Jay, about the rise of both estrangement. I'm concerned about the amount of posts that go viral about, you know, I got my life better because I cut all the toxic people out. And I stop and think always, well, did you have a conversation about what was bothering you?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because if you just ghost other people or you use the silent treatment, that's actually punishing somebody. And that's extremely immature, actually. It means you can't handle your own emotions, which is why you don't have a hard conversation about what you need or how someone's behavior is impacting you. And if you haven't had that, it's a very immature move to just cut somebody off.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so I get very worried about the labeling of people as toxic. And about the ease at which people seem to just drop people.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And what I really love about the let them theory is that it opens up the window to a lot more compassion. Because we're quick to think that if somebody hasn't texted you back or you've texted somebody a couple times and they haven't responded that you did something bad. And it's perfectly fine to be like, did I do something? You know, I noticed you haven't responded. Is everything okay?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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If they don't respond then, then something's probably wrong, either with them or with you, and you get to decide what you're going to do next. But I am worried about the combination of people being isolated, of people spending way too much time on their phones instead of with each other, and that we've gotten very transactional with one another.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it's easy to forget that people have a lot going on. And they're not thinking about you as much as you're thinking about them. And just because you have time to text them doesn't mean they have time right now to text you back. And I guarantee you when they saw your text, they probably thought, oh, my God, I love it. And then something came up.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so I do worry about it, Jay. I do think we have too much of an expectation of something in return.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And when you start to use this theory, what you're also going to notice is this.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you start to say let them, you will notice that maybe you're the sibling that reaches out more and it might bother you because when you say let them and you keep reaching out and they don't reach out or you have a group of friends and you notice that when you stop reaching out or making the plans that you're not included in theirs and that hurts.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The thing I used to do when that happened is I would make it about me. I would make it like some deficiency in me. And what I've learned using the let them theory and really just saying let them, which detaches from the hurt, it detaches from the judgment, it reminds you that adults are allowed to live their lives. Adults are allowed to come and go in friendship.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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They're allowed to prioritize certain people at certain times. They're allowed to have busy periods at work. They're allowed to fall in and out of communication. And the more you let people live their lives, the better your life gets and the more compassionate of a human being you become. And the more I've started to recognize, oh, wait, like my social life is my responsibility.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you allow your boss's mood to stress you out or make you nervous, you're giving power to your boss that they do not deserve. And so you're going to say, let them. When you allow a customer that is rude or inconsiderate to make you feel bad about yourself or to make you upset or to rattle you, you just gave this rude person power over you. When you say, let them, something interesting happens.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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If I have a group of friends where if I make the plans, everybody's included, but if I sit back, I'm never invited, then now I got to examine, am I investing in the right group of friends? Or you might also wake up and realize, well, maybe I just like really introverted people, but I'm the party planner. And that's my role in life.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And instead of you being transactional, you actually recognize the gift that it is to people.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it sucks that maybe your siblings get together because they live closer and they don't include you. And it does hurt. And feeling a little bit of pain like that means your mind and body is working properly.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Right. It's a sign that you're mentally well.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It doesn't mean there's a sign that there's anything wrong with you. And so when you can say, let them, and then you say, let me, let me decide what I want to do about this. You can have the conversation and you might realize that they just click. And you don't have as close of a relationship, but then you get to decide how you value family.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And if you're going to bring different energy or if you're going to try a little bit harder, because again, you get to choose. And when you realize how much power you have, you see that through the way you think about it or you respond to it, you actually can shift anything for the better.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I'm really excited about this. I wrote this actually with my daughter, who's 25, and it was an amazing experience because she was bringing a much different perspective. When we wrote the section about how you use the let them theory with love, she started researching the breakup section because the fact about love is people choose who and how they love, and sometimes they won't choose you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Like, this is horseshit. Like, just rip this up. I have to let her walk out the door. I have to let her believe it. This is bullshit. Like, just like, and it was this unbelievable experience because when somebody that you love is grieving or going through heartbreak or struggling, You would jump in front of a car to take their pain away.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And the let them theory and the experience of this book taught me that the best thing I could do was to let her grieve, to let her be heartbroken, to let her go through her process. You know, I think about it this way, like arm around somebody. You're not blocking and tackling. You've got your arm around somebody. But if she's on the floor sobbing, let her because she needs to.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You know, if we need to remove the photos from the family thing, because this is a two-year-long relationship, because that is actually a huge recommendation that I make in this book, that you've got to follow a 30-day rule of zero contact, zero photos, zero videos, because you're not just letting them leave. You have to unlearn the patterns of your life. Yes. that were with them.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It's a withdrawal like anything else. It's a grief. Yes. And any sign of that person actually triggers the old patterns in your nervous system and it delays your ability to move through it. Absolutely. And it's impossible when you're in it to just let them move on. Because every part of your wiring and programming, you're gonna wanna check their location.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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First of all, you detach. Second, you feel almost superior. It's this weird thing because I don't think this is the same thing as saying, let it go. You're a very grounded person, Jay. You strike me as the kind of person that can let anything go. Me, whenever somebody would say to me, Mel, I know, I know it's not fair what just happened at work. You got to let it go.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're gonna wanna listen to the voice memos. You're gonna want to saturate yourself because the life that you wanted is over. And you're either gonna trap yourself in a life that you're no longer in by watching their life play out from afar. And you're gonna keep re-triggering these patterns in your nervous system

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because you're going to keep this person in your life even though they walked out the door, which is why you have to let them. And then you've got to let me do the hard part, which is I get to choose how I'm going to move through this. And the research is also really empowering. It gets better for the majority of people. 71% of people start to feel better by 11 weeks.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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11 weeks. And you may feel better in 11 days. What happens at 11 weeks? What happens at 11 weeks if you're not cyber-stalking somebody is that you've actually allowed your body to break the old patterns.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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See, the reason why when you're going through a heartbreak, and heartbreak and breakups are just like death. That's what they are. For sure. Because you're grieving what's no longer there.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes. And aside from the 30-day rule, which is remove, like do not look at voice memos, location, social, nothing, no photos, because it triggers everything to stay alive in you. But during those 30 days, what's going to happen is every time you wake up, you're going to feel them there. because your body remembers. That doesn't mean that's a sign you should get back together.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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That's actually a sign that you're unlearning something. Let those memories come up. Let your nervous system process this. Every time you have news in your life, you're going to want to reach out to them. Why? Because that was the pattern. That doesn't mean you should.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So you've got to do the let them leave and let me remind myself I'm going through this process. And every day that you do that, you're actually unlearning these patterns. And by the time you get to about 30 days, you feel less intoxicated. Another huge recommendation is do something in your bedroom, like paint a wall, move the bed, do something because you spent a lot of time there.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So walking back into it is like a graveyard of your old life and it can be very triggering. And so she did that. And the 11-week mark is important because what's happening is you're now starting to create new patterns. As you've let them leave, you're now letting me move on. You're letting me... take the actions that show me that my life is moving forward.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And my therapist, Ann Davin, who's the smartest woman, human being I've ever met, she said, you know, Mel, the thing for Sawyer to ask herself is if she knew that the love of her life were literally just a couple months away, what would you do right now with this period of time? And when you think about it that way,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because again, as long as you're holding on to somebody who already left, you actually are not open to meeting anybody else.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yeah, or two years, or a year away, or whatever. You see, because we think, because when somebody leaves that you love, you think you're unlovable. You actually think you're never gonna find it again. You hate yourself. That's why most of the advice about this is complete bullshit. Go love yourself? How the hell am I going to go love myself when the person I love more than anything just left me?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I'd be like, but I feel like I lost. I feel like I now have to be defeated. I feel more like a doormat if somebody tells me to let something go.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I hate myself. I despise myself. I am terrified of the day that they're going to meet somebody. I'm never going to find that again. I'm never going to have sex like that again. Like, you hate yourself. And so telling somebody to just go on a revenge diet or love yourself, it's horrible. Instead, I want you to face reality. They left. Let them. And then let me grieve.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And follow my therapist Ann Davin's advice. You have to do a 30-day detox. And if you are somebody that's been holding onto somebody that left a year ago, I guarantee you, you have not gone 30 days without listening to a voice memo or looking at a photo. You are keeping them alive, which is keeping you trapped in something that's dead. And your inability to let them go and let them leave

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then let me accept reality and start moving forward and let me believe that the person that I am meant to meet, they are in the future. They're not in my past. And by the way, even if you kind of hold out secretly hope, it might be the person from the past. It might be, but they're not the version from back there.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And neither are you. And so you have to, again, come back to where the power is. It's not in getting them back. It's not in making them jealous. Because if you focus on making that person jealous or blah, blah, blah, where are you putting your power?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And something you can't control. You have to put your power here. And the reason why I love the 30-day rule and the 11-week mark is because it's the truth. This is going to suck. The only way to get over someone and to go through heartbreak is to go through it. There's no avoiding it. There's only delaying it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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For me, when I say let them, I get a jolt of superiority because I'm like, I can see that my boss is kind of a jerk and I'm just going to let them be a jerk. And I rise above it and I feel a little judgy. I mean, if I'm being perfectly honest. I mean, this is why people get this tattooed on their bodies.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because we don't want to accept people as they are.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When somebody breaks up and leaves or cheats on you, they have just revealed who they are. For sure. And your inability to accept it Instead of explaining it away and living in a fantasy up here, that's what's keeping you from having and creating the love you actually deserve and want in your life.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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That is the truth. It's true. And here's the other thing. Why are you pretending to be this person's friend and not bringing it up? Why is it on them to tell you the truth? Let them lie to you and then... come to the let me part. If aren't you pretending that you're their friend, if you haven't brought this up and you're actually holding that in your head, right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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There are so many applications of this. It's just incredible. And the thing that I'm really, really excited about Is that, you know, the other massive thing that I think this is going to help people with is that one other way that you make people a massive problem is that you see somebody else's success or happiness or the things that they achieve in their life as somehow robbing you of yours.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yeah. And the thing about life is that you're never playing against people. You play with them. And somebody else's success, happiness, love, like the things that they achieve, it's in limitless supply. And when you wrap your brain around the fact that happiness, love, money, like all of it, limitless supply. So other people can't block your way. They actually lead the way.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And so if you let them lead the way and you see their wins not as your losses, but you see it as an example to follow, You now stop making other people a problem and you stop using them as an excuse for why you can't do what you're capable of. Other people don't block you. You block your way. Allow people to lead the way. And the way that you do that is you say, let them be successful.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because when you say the word let them or you see it on your arm, what happens is you no longer allowed a rude colleague or something frustrating at work to derail your day. You say, let them, and you rise above it. And you kind of go, I see what's happening here. I'm going to allow this without allowing it. But then there's a second part, Jay. And this is the most important part.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Let them get married. Let them have the baby. Let them have the nice car because they're showing me what's possible. And the cool thing about really embracing let them in that regard is that other people also show you the formula, right?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But if you're so busy going, oh, well, Jane launched a podcast and there's too many podcasts. Now I can't launch podcasts. Who's blocking you?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Correct. You're capable of learning to be a better player in the game of life from other people.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So stop playing against them.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And let them show you the way.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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There is a massive shift that happens in adult friendship when you hit 20 that nobody sees coming. The rules of friendship completely change when your 20s hit. And I'm gonna explain the rules when you're little, and then we're gonna talk about the rules of adult friendship.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So when you're little, your entire life is organized around friendship and making it possible because you're with people your age all the time in class and sports. So true. You move in groups because you're on teams and you're in neighborhoods and you're always together. you also celebrate the same milestones. You're hitting the same birthdays.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're all talking about the next level of school or the this thing this summer. You're watching the same movies because you're all the same age. And so there's so much synergy and relevance and the conditions to spend a ton of time together are there. Then you get to university and you spend even more time together. And

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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What happens when you hit your 20s, right, is that it moves from this big group sport where you just kind of expect to be around your friends all the time. You expect the group to get invited because that's what's always happened. You expect to see them all the time because you do always see them all the time. But then your 20s hit, the rules change, and what I call the great scattering happens.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Everybody moves in different directions. And friendship goes from group sport to individual sport. You can no longer expect friendship. You are no longer part of a group that is expected to be invited everywhere because everybody scatters. And suddenly, everybody's on different timelines. You're in different cities. You're moving in different directions.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So there's no way to locate yourself inside your friend group. And the only thing that's keeping you together from your friends from when you were little is a text chain that starts to go quieter and quieter and quieter as people start to focus on the people in front of them. And that brings me to two major shifts that I want you to embrace using the let them theory.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Number one, you can no longer expect friendship. You have to take a way more flexible approach and a more proactive approach. You gotta let people come and go. Super important. And then you gotta let me take the actions to create the friendships. I gotta go first. I gotta be the one planning. I gotta seek out new people.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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But there are three pillars of adult friendship based on research that are also going to help you understand that when people come and go in your life, 99% of the time, it's not personal. And you actually haven't lost them as a friend. One of the three pillars is missing.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So the three things that need to be required to have a friendship happen are the same three things that were around all the time when you were a kid. Number one, proximity. Proximity matters tremendously. Proximity means who are you actually physically next to? In fact, they've done research, Jay.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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If you and I were in a dorm and we lived across the hall, I don't remember the percentages exactly, but it's like 90% chance we're gonna be friends.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it's the part that people do not tattoo on themselves because it's the harder part. And the second part to this theory is saying to yourself, let me. Let me remind myself that in life, there are always three things I can control. That's where my power is. My power is not in managing my boss.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The poor person at the end of the hallway, 10% chance that we're going to be friends with them because of proximity. Even a matter of 50 feet makes a difference. And so when you were little, you were in proximity to people your age all the time. All day. Exactly. The research also shows that to have, as an adult, a kind of casual friend, you need to spend approximately 70 hours with somebody.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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To have a close friend, 200 hours. Mm-hmm. So when you're an adult, that creates a big problem because who are you spending all your time with once you're 20? The American Time Study shows that it's with people you work with. So why aren't we best friends with people at work? Because you have proximity and you're spending a lot of time together. But here's the thing, timing.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you were little, you were in the same timing of life with everybody.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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When you hit your 20s and it's now individual, everybody's on different timelines. Some of your friends are getting married. Some are going to graduate school. Some are now pursuing jobs. Other people are moving out of the city, into the city. Everybody's timing is now different. And this also explains why you're almost never best friends with people at work, because the timing is off.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're sitting next to people that are in very different times of their life. You may like them a lot, And you may be friends, but you never spend time outside of work because they're at home with their family and you're going out with your buddies your age on the weekends. And then that brings me to the third thing that needs to be present for a friendship to truly click, and that's energy.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And the thing about energy is it changes. And you can have fantastic energy with somebody. And then if you decide you're not drinking anymore, the energy's off. If you decide to get really focused on fitness, the energy's off. If you have very different political beliefs, the energy's off. It's not personal. It's one of these three pillars.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it has helped me so profoundly, Jay, to realize that people come and go and it's a beautiful thing and you should let them. And you should really, if you have a friendship that starts to dissipate, right? Ask yourself, before you blame them or you blame you, are any one of these three pillars missing? Are we not near each other anymore? Is the timing of our lives off?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Is there just something about the energy that hasn't clicked? Because you can't force those things. But what I've found is that when you recognize that those are really important factors to your connection to someone else, that if a friendship starts to fade for me, it's so easy to say, let them. And I don't wish anybody bad. I literally wish people well.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because the other thing that I've learned, and being 56, I've had a lot of friends come and go in different phases of my life, that you would be startled by how many people from your past that you no longer, quote, consider friends because you haven't seen them in a very long time or things just got weird. If you actually called them, they'd pick up the phone.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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or in trying to like deal with some customer that just doesn't want to be in an okay mood and doesn't want to be calmed down. They want to be right. They want to take it out on you. So you're going to let them. But then you've created this boundary. You rise above. I'm going to just let you be upset here. I'm not going to let it impact me. And then you say, let me.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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If you texted them, the research shows that when you get a surprise text from somebody that you haven't heard from in a long time, the amount of joy that you feel. And so I want you to consider, if you're very lonely right now, that there's actually probably hundreds of people from your past that still consider you a friend. And if you take the approach that I'm talking about, which is,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Friendship is your responsibility. You need to go first. Let me create the friendship and the connection that I want. And you can start by literally taking a look through your past and thinking about people that you remember fondly and just sending them a text. And you will be startled by what comes back. Because they're there. They haven't actually gone anywhere. The connection is still there.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And oftentimes, even if you've had somebody where something's been off, again, let them and wish them well. And there will be a time, I promise you, where the timing or proximity or energy comes back around again.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yeah, all structure of your life just evaporates. Just disappears. It's the hardest decade of your life.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Yes. The hardest way is when you recognize the potential in somebody. And you see them struggling. And when you recognize that somebody that you love deeply is in pain, when you're saying let them, you're not abandoning somebody. You're actually recognizing their ability to meet these difficult moments in their life with you by their side.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And I think when I think about supporting versus enabling, because the more you kind of step in and rescue people from their feelings or from the consequences of their decisions or their inaction, the more people continue to drown in their problems. I really believe that.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And it's a very, very difficult balance because you're going to hit your frustration and rock bottom and worry with somebody before they do. And somebody said something in the addiction community. I can't remember who said this, but it just is so true that somebody only gets sober when getting drunk is harder than facing the thing that they don't want to face. And the same is true with anything.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And what you're reminding yourself of is there's three things in your control, Jay. What you think. Next. what you do or don't do, and oftentimes not doing something is the more powerful mood, and how you process your emotions. Those are the three things that are always in your control. And when you say, let me take responsibility right now, for how I'm going to respond to this.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Like really motivating yourself to get in better shape. recognizing that you have a pattern of dating people that are emotionally abusive and taking a break and really digging deep into the issue that keeps coming up for you, that's really hard. That's why we avoid it. And so when you see somebody that you know is capable or who deserves better, wanting that for them is a form of loving them.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Like you should want the people in your life that you care about to be doing better. And you... I hate seeing somebody with so much potential squandering it. But again, I'm going to come back to something that I learned from Dr. Stuart Avalon at Mass General Hospital. People do well when they can.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And I want you to start to assume that if somebody in your life is not doing well or if they're going through a challenge, there is a skill that's missing or there is emotion that needs to be processed or there is pain that needs to be felt before they can galvanize the ability to do the very difficult work to change. And in the case of watching my daughter go through this heartbreak,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I mean, I literally found myself, Jay, wanting to text her boyfriend or boyfriend's mother, like, you know, hey, maybe we can, like, just because I want to fix it. But when you step in and fix it, you literally demean someone else. Because I do know that she has the ability to move through this. And so the way that I love thinking about support is this way.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The next time you have somebody in your life who is truly struggling, whether it's in school or in relationships or with an addiction, I want you to think, how can I create an environment that supports their healing? Not stepping in and doing it. It's rarely an issue of will. Like it's not willpower for people or the desire.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It's actually more about skill and the ability and need to process things and do it on their own timeline, right? So how can you create an environment for that to happen? And for me, it meant removing any imagery. It meant letting her stay up in her bedroom and every once in a while knocking on the door and being like, do you need anything?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And allowing her to be in her pajamas for four days and be in a depressive state, because guess what? Being in a depressive state and falling on the floor and crying, it's a sign she's mentally well. That's what you do. It's a sign that you're okay. Yes. It would be scary if she wasn't feeling anything.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then when you're ready, you kind of put your arm around people. And so how can you do this? Like when she was born actually, Sawyer, I had severe postpartum depression, Jay. I had a very traumatic delivery, lost a lot of blood. And I just was so out of it that they put me on these drugs that turned me into a zombie. I couldn't breastfeed her. I wasn't allowed to be alone with her.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I missed the first three and a half months of her life. And nobody asked me, If I needed help, they showed up and created an environment where I could get better. I had my parents drive out and just stay and they just did laundry and they cleaned and they did what needed to be done. And people who are struggling, they don't even know what they need. And so don't ask somebody what you can do.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Find something you can do. Show up with a meal. Walk into your brother's bedroom and pull open the curtains in the morning when he's struggling with depression so the sunlight comes in. Create a playlist for somebody. Pick them up. Like, don't say you want to meet at yoga. Say, here's what we're going to do.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I'm going to come over on Saturday and pick you up and we're going to go to that yoga class. Or I'm going to come over on Sunday and I'm going to watch the kids and the dog so you can go to the park and read a book for two hours. That's how you create an environment for someone else to get better. And the other way that you do it is instead of judging... You're going to let them be who they are.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And the word responsibility after all is the ability to respond, right? And so when you say, let me, and you remember, I can think what I want about this. I can act in response to this and I can process my emotions and either allow them to rise and fall and stay steady and calm or, you know, you can certainly erupt if you want to, but why would you want to?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're going to let them struggle. And then you're going to use this technique that's incredibly effective. I labeled it the ABC so that I could remember it. First, you're going to apologize. So let's talk about, like, this is an issue I had with our son. He didn't seem motivated. So I would constantly be like, why aren't you motivated? Why don't you study hard? Why are you doing this?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It didn't work.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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No. And so I finally, A, you're going to apologize. I'm sorry I'm pressuring you. I'm sorry I'm questioning you. And then A, you're going to ask an open-ended question. How do you feel about this issue? And it doesn't matter what they say because you're probably asking for the first time how they actually feel about the issue. And then you're going to ask a really important question.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You're going to ask, what would you like to do about it, if anything? And their answers don't matter because what you're doing by apologizing is you're removing the pressure that you're bringing. And now by asking these questions, and I like to do this in a car, Jay, because they're trapped. And because you're both looking ahead, so it's not as confrontational.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And there's something in the science around forward ambulation and the movement that actually opens up your thinking. And then you ask... You know, what do you want to do about it, if anything? And what happens is you're now revealing this tension because people that are stuck know it. People that are struggling know it. People who are failing at school know it. Nobody wants to fail.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It's not like people are trying to be depressed. It's not like people are trying to be very unhealthy. People know when they're letting themselves go. You don't need to remind them. But have you ever asked them, what would you like to do about this, if anything?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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What happens in that question, whether they answered or not, is that friction between what they know to be true about what they desire and where they actually are rises up. That is the organizing, intrinsic motivation that somebody needs to want to do better. And then you got to do B, back off. That's the hard part. Let them, let them, let them, let them, let me shut up.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Let them, let them, let me not roll my eyes. And people need space. to have it be their idea. And I'll give you a quick example. I used to be the kind of person that would eat lunch and work on my computer. I'm like tapping on my computer, shoving a sandwich on my throat, right? And there would be this colleague that would stand up and go for a walk most days.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And every time she came back, she'd have a smile on her face and she'd take her earbuds off and she'd then get back to work. And this would go on for weeks. And then finally one day, Jay, I look up outside and it's a nice day. And I think, I think I'm gonna go for a walk. Now here's the interesting thing. I didn't credit her. I thought it was my idea. Her example influenced my desire to do it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The people that you are close to need enough distance from you. This is why you have to back off for that friction. Yeah. And that stirring to sit with them. In order for them to feel safe, to be able to take the step forward. And then you better keep backing off because you do not want to be like, oh, I saw you didn't matter in your tech. Like that's kind of, no. And so you keep going, let them.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then the C part is any small thing, you celebrate it in a non-passive aggressive way. And you actually model the change. You can't ask somebody to stop drinking while you're pouring yourself a glass of wine.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Because then that means you've given power to somebody else.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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You can't ask somebody else to get healthy if you're sitting on the couch eating chips. So you model the change and make it easy just like my colleague did with the walk. And just like you and I constantly buy things online because it looks so easy and fun, your behavior and backing off and that tension inside them actually creates the space for somebody to truly want to change. Mm-hmm.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And that's how it's done.

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Well, I'm not as smart as you, Jay, so I can't do the intellectual stuff. I got to find simple things. Are you kidding me? Well, you know, I have to tell you, I really appreciate. Simple is beautiful. And I truly accept and feel how heartfelt and honest those words are. Because this is, I think, my legacy.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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I do. I think that this is the thing I was supposed to figure out and leave the world.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Thank you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So are you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Well, I think there's two reasons because your question is about two different things. One is, why are we focused on things we can't control? And the other one is sort of like, why are we distracted? And they're interconnected. So let's just address the issue of control. Every human being has a hardwired need to be in control of everything. Because being in control is what makes you feel safe.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So I need to feel in control of my thoughts, my decisions, my environment, my future. And the problem is, so do you. But part of the...

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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need for control, Jay, extends beyond me, because if you're doing something that makes me annoyed or irritated or worried about you, now I'm feeling a little unsafe or worried because of what you're doing, and so now I'm gonna wanna control you so that I feel better. And so it is a fundamental hardwired need inside every human being you know to be in control of yourself.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And yet, the second we step across the line and we try to control someone else, whether it's, I think you should be healthier, I think you should be more motivated, I wish you wouldn't like leave the Kleenexes when you're blowing your nose on the, whatever it is that you wish someone else would do. I wish my boss wouldn't talk in every meeting and would give a chance like for us to talk.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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All of that desire for someone else to change is you attempting to control the uncontrollable. And so I think one of the reasons why we do this is because we're hardwired to do it. And the problem becomes that the second I try to control you, Jay, it's not going to motivate you to do what I want you to do. It's going to bump up against your need for your own control.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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So you're going to push back against me. Absolutely. And so you also asked about distraction. I think the reason why we're so distracted is because if you spend so much time and energy allowing the world around you to stress you out and drain your energy, you are now susceptible to being hijacked by meaningless things that are not important to you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And this is one of the biggest discoveries that I've made about using the let them theory and researching it has spread around the world is that the single biggest benefit is that you get time and energy back. You have no idea right now how much time and energy is being wasted or drained because of other people's behavior or your expectations about how you wish things would go.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And once you start noticing All of these little moments all day long, it's like a death by a thousand cuts. You want to know why you're too tired? You want to know why you're overwhelmed? You want to know why you're stressed out? You want to know why you have no time for yourself? It's because of the power you give to other people's opinions, their emotions, their immature behavior.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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It's the ways in which you are turning people into a problem in your life. And here's the sad fact. The sad fact is other people should be the greatest source of happiness and connection and inspiration. But if you don't truly learn this skill that we're going to talk about today of focusing on what you can control and letting people be who they are,

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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letting things play out as they're playing out, and then bringing the power back in house and really focusing on how you responded. If you embrace this skill, you're gonna be shocked. You're gonna be shocked by how much time you've wasted. I'm not kidding. And you're gonna be shocked, Jay, by the fact that you've allowed stupid things and people's drama to drain you

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And that's why I also think we're so susceptible to distraction, because we've given so much power away all day long. Because here's the truth. Like, I'll give you an example. When I first discovered this and I started playing around with it, the very first way that I used it after I discovered it was I was standing in line.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And we've all been at the grocery store when it's like six people deep and there's one person working. And it's like beep, beep, beep. And you start feeling that wave, right? And immediately the wave of stress takes over because you're now irritated by what's happening.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And what just happens when you start reacting to that and you allow that stress wave to start to take over is that you're giving power to something outside of you. Now, I can't control what's happening right now. So why on earth would I allow it to drain my energy? Because as it comes up, Jay, what do I then do? I then start talking to myself. Well, this is ridiculous.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Why have they not done an announcement? Like, I got to get going here. Why are they not bringing another... Now I'm starting to believe, Jay, that I can run a supermarket better than the people that are running it. And then you, of course, turn to the person behind you and you're like, can you believe this? And now this is...

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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The interesting part that I really want everybody, I really want the person listening to embrace. In that moment, you just gave away your energy. And you have a choice. When you say let them, you instantly feel a release. And then you say, let me decide what I'm going to do right now. I can leave the store. That's one thing I can do. I could stand here and practice being present.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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That's another thing I could do. I could, because I don't have time at the end of the day and I'm always tired and I'm complaining that I'm lonely, I could actually pick up the phone and call my grandmother. I could text my friend Jay Shetty because I've been thinking about him. Like you have so much power. But you're going to burn through it in that line.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And then you're going to feel your stress activated. And then you're going to get in the car. And then somebody is going to pull out in front of you. And then you're going to be stressed again. And then you're going to walk into work. And you're going to be annoyed in some meeting because of what somebody said. And then that's going to hit you again.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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And all day long, because you don't recognize how this stuff is impacting you, that energy inside your body is slowly draining. And this is why you're exhausted. And so simply starting to use it, whether it's at work or it's just in your daily life, to say, let them. When you notice that somebody else is irritating you or your sister is doing that annoying thing, just let her.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Every human being has a hardwired need to be in control of everything. There's three things in your control, Jay. What you think, what you do or don't do, and how you process your emotions. If you embrace this skill, you're going to be shocked.

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Did my husband ask you to ask me this question, Jay?

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Mel Robbins: How to Use the ‘Let Them Theory’ (A Life Changing Mindset Hack That 15 Million People Can’t Stop Talking About)

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Chris has your number. So I texted you.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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The more that I let them and I just drop this obsession with controlling things around me or having an opinion about it, which is a way of controlling, the more control I feel. And so I put out a reel and just, it was like 60 seconds. I was like, if your friends are going out to lunch without you, let them.

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If you throw a birthday party and a bunch of people come and all the popular people leave early to go do their own thing, let them. Why? Because when you let them, you are allowing adults to be adults and you are allowing people to reveal who they are. And that's really important because when you're so busy controlling other people, you actually don't see who they are.

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And when you can give up control and you can let adults be adults, Jamie, and there's a bunch of rules that I can now teach you about what we get wrong about relationships. But when you let adults be adults, because number one, you cannot make another adult do anything they don't want to do, period. and you think you can, and it's not true. Adults only do what they feel like doing.

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The second thing, there is nothing you can do to make another adult change. Why? Rule number one, adults only do what adults feel like doing. This is why you cannot make somebody get sober. This is why you cannot want somebody's dreams for them more than they want it for themselves. This is why you can't get somebody to be nicer or get somebody to work harder. Why?

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Because adults only do what adults feel like doing. And you can't do anything to change someone. Here's another thing you can't make adults do. You cannot make another adult like you. You cannot make another adult love you.

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and you are wasting too much time and energy presuming that people are gonna love you the same way that you love them or presuming that there is some different way that you can show up or do or text in a certain cadence and twist yourself in knots so that somebody else likes you, think about the time and energy that you're wasting there, especially when you really grasp the truth

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that adults only do what adults feel like doing. And this is the real power of the let them theory. When you let somebody else live their life, you have to look in the mirror and you have to confront where you are in your life. And if your friends are not inviting you to lunch, it is not their responsibility to include you. Your life, your friendships, your happiness, your responsibility.

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Are you crying?

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Yes.

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You're crying already. Yes. You're crying already. Because, um...

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And if it bothers you that much, instead of sending that passive aggressive text, I saw you guys having lunch, would have been nice to have been included, or bitching about them to other people, How about you look in the mirror and you say to yourself, well, if I actually want friendships like that, maybe I should plan the lunch. Maybe these people aren't my friends after all.

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And if I want friendships that feel good, it's my job to create it. And what part of myself do I have to confront in order to take responsibility for creating what I want? See, nobody else is responsible for the life that you want. You have to create it. And the more time you waste going, oh, but my friends, oh, but my boss, oh, but my this, the less likely you're going to do it.

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That's a let them theory.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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I mean, everybody listening knows somebody. that has been in that category of struggling and struggling and struggling and struggling, and you try everything you possibly can. And your life then becomes about rescuing that person.

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And I'm not here to say that you just throw your hands in the air. I'm here to say there's a huge difference. between offering support and taking responsibility for somebody else's healing. And at some point,

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the person who needs the healing, or the person who needs to stop feeling sorry for themselves, or the person who needs to confront their addiction and their patterns, they have to take responsibility for wanting to change. And you wanting it more for them won't make it happen. It's true, but I'm just here to tell you the reality. The reality is adults only do what adults feel like doing.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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Yeah.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And you can't make somebody else change. You can help somebody by letting them know how you feel and how their behavior hurts you. You can let somebody know the support that you're going to give. You can let people know your boundaries. I'm not saying it's easy.

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Or confronting. Or confronting. Because we'd rather make Mel Robbins a bitch than actually look in the mirror and say, where can I own my own role in this? And where can I find my power? It's easier to blame the messenger than to look in the mirror and say, what can I take responsibility for? Nowhere did I say you're at fault. Fault is a very different word than responsibility.

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Because when you get into the lane of, I'm at fault and this, now you're beating yourself up. Now you're insecure. Now you're feeling sorry for yourself. I want you to do something different. I want you to get very clear about what you're sick and tired of and what you can take responsibility for.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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Excellent question. So if somebody is in a terrible relationship, what do we know? There's nothing you can say that will make them leave that person. if you confront it directly. And the more that you attack the relationship that they're in, the more defensive they're going to be in it and the more they're going to stay in it because they're going to feel like you're attacking them.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And so when it comes to people in your life, and let's just talk about varying degrees, right? When there is somebody in your life that's dating somebody, this is not good for them. You're going to have to let them. You just have to.

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And the only thing that I have ever found that works in my life, when I have had someone that I deeply care about in clearly the wrong relationship, and I'm talking someone who did this for years, is the more that they feel judged, the more distance it creates between the two of you, the more they hide the reality of what's going on and how they really feel.

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And so you need to let an adult be an adult You need to let them know the truth of how you feel. And there's a particular way to do it, which is not, I think your partner sucks and he's abusing you. And which is going to be very confronting. It's let them know the truth, which is I'm worried about you because you don't seem like yourself. How can I support you? That's what you say.

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And then what do you need to do? And this is the hardest part. You need to let them. I'm worried about you. You don't seem like yourself. How can I support you? And what ends up happening is that over time, since you're holding out the truth, that stays with somebody.

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And when you get into the very scary situations, I was a trained crisis intervention counselor working a domestic hotline for four years. I am not immune to the realities of the psychological stranglehold that happens inside of a abuse cycle. and the very well-documented neurological programming that happens due to the honeymoon abuse cycle of horrible abuse, then tremendous apology, then quiet.

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The intermittent nature of that actually creates more of a trap inside somebody's brain. I get that. And there is nothing that another human being can do when you literally confront it directly to change that fact. What you can do is you can let them know, this is where I'm responsible. I'm not responsible for the relationships you're in.

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I am responsible for telling you the truth and I am responsible for offering support to the extent I want to. And that is the truth. And we also know based on research, it's a minimum of seven attempts to leave a abusive relationship for somebody. That's why telling the truth, I'm worried about you. I am here for you. I'm here to support you. The second that you are ready to leave, I am here.

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And I know there's nothing I can do to make you do it. But I want you to know I love you, you are so strong and I'm here. That is how you handle that. And then you have to let them. Because the more you judge that person as weak, the more you have an opinion about it, the more that you get all wrapped up around it, they can pick up on your energy.

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They know that you're judging them and that you think that they're weak and you're pathetic and you're all this stuff because that's what your energy is portraying. That's why this matters. Do you intervene if somebody is spiraling? Of course you do. You offer the support. That might mean taking away the pills. That might mean driving somebody to rehab. That's the level of support.

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But that's based on your boundaries and your truth.

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Can we start that one?

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Why didn't he fold the laundry? Why didn't they load the dishwasher? Why didn't they, or in my husband's case, why did Mel, why does Mel always stack the cardboard boxes up like a Tetris sculpture instead of breaking them down? Like this drove him crazy because, you know, everybody gets boxes to their house from Amazon. And I hate that.

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having to do that thing where you, you know, you flatten them, you know, for recycling. Okay. At least we have to in Vermont. And I always have this thing where I would like slight, I would like the boxes would come, I'd carry them to the garage and then I'd stack them up and I have these big plans that I'm going to come back later and I will do it when I feel like it. Right? Because why?

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

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Adults only do what they feel like doing. So can Chris change my behavior? No. I will change my behavior when I want to change my behavior. Right. But here's what Chris can do. Using the let them theory, Chris understands he's got to let me be me. He can't make me change. What is Chris responsible for? His truth and his boundaries. So Chris comes to me and he says, Can I share something with you?

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I'm like, sure. He said, you know, every time I walk into the garage and I see the tower of cardboard boxes waiting for some recycling ferry to come flying in here and flatten them all out, I feel like you think I am your servant. And it makes me feel really kind of hurt. that you think that that's all that I'm here for. Now, when Chris shares that, I immediately feel terrible.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

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He's not shaming me. He's telling me the truth about how he feels. I don't want him to feel this way. So now what happens? Because I don't want him to feel this way, I now will flatten the cardboard boxes. Why? Because I want to. Does that make sense? And because we don't take the time to recognize that I am not responsible for somebody else's change in behavior.

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I am responsible for communicating what I feel, what I value, how something impacts me, what I need, what my boundaries are. And then the hardest part is what happens next. Because once you have that communication that really hurt me, it would make me feel great if you were to do X. The next time this happens, could you do Y? The hardest part of a relationship is what happens next.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

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Because now it's back to the other person and you're gonna let them. And here's what's gonna happen. They are revealing to you who they are. If I don't flatten those boxes, it reveals to Chris that I really don't care that he feels that way. And this brings me to another law about human behavior. People's behavior is the truest form of communication. I can come up with a million excuses, Jamie.

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Oh, I'm so busy, I have ADHD, I'll get to it later, I didn't mean to. That's just noise. If you actually want to change or you actually care about what the other person just told you, prove it. And by not doing it, I am communicating loud and clear to Chris, I don't care. And the hardest thing for us, and this is where the let them theory starts to get really deep,

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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is when you really unhook your emotions, Jamie, and you let adults be adults, and you take responsibility for your side of the relationship, which is your truth, your needs, your boundaries, your wants, all that kind of stuff. And then somebody reveals their true nature. Most of us don't want to face it.

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And so if we go back to somebody who is in a relationship that is very unhealthy, there was somebody who has a narcissistic personality style, there was somebody who's abusive. If you embrace the let them theory and you embrace this rule that you can't change this person and that their behavior is the truth about who they are, now it's on you.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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to really try to separate how you feel and what the other person is saying from the reality of what this other human being is showing you through their behavior. And again, we don't want to look at that because then we have to look in the mirror and go, What do I need to take responsibility for?

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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If I take what Mel Robbins is saying and the let them theory as truth, and if I take as truth that adults only do what adults feel like doing, and if I take as truth, I can't make anybody change. I can't make anybody like me. I can't make anybody love me because adults only do what they feel like doing.

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And if this person's behavior is the truest communication of who they are and what they care about, Now it's on me.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And I have to make a decision, an incredibly hard decision, a decision that goes against all of the neurological programming that has happened in this relationship, a decision that will have to make me confront the things about myself that I don't want to confront because I'm responsible for what happens next, regardless of all the stuff that went down.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And that's why I say you are always capable of changing for the better.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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I am grateful for our friendship. I am so proud to call you my friend. I love you.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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If your friends want to judge what you post on social media, let them. If your parents don't want to come visit for Thanksgiving, let them. If your neighbors get together and they don't include your family, let them. If the city that you live in decides to do a big construction project and it creates a tremendous amount of traffic for you at the dumbest month of the year, let them.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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Yes. So the let them theory is something that I just came up with in the last couple of months. And it is, I think the most powerful thing I've ever stumbled upon. And I've learned some pretty incredible things in my lifetime from other people, from the power of something like the five second rule and prioritizing action. But the let them theory is at a entirely different level.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And the let them theory on the surface is extremely simple. And here's how it works. Let them. If your friends want to judge what you post on social media, let them. If your parents don't want to come visit for Thanksgiving, let them. If your neighbors get together and they don't include your family, let them.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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If the city that you live in decides to do a big construction project and it creates a tremendous amount of traffic for you at the dumbest month of the year, let them. You have no clue how much time and energy you are wasting trying to control other people or things that you have no control over. And I was so guilty of this.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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You have no clue how much time and energy you are wasting trying to control other people or things that you have no control over. You will gain more control in your life the less you try to control other people. I started to develop this theory. Wow. The more that I just let them, I let adults be adults, I let other people live their lives, the more control I feel.

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And it is so easy to read something on Instagram, I don't care what other people think, and then regurgitate it like it's some sort of philosophy that you have when really you actually do care a lot. LetThem is a tool that encapsulates the truth about relationships and the truth about control. you will gain more control in your life the less you try to control other people.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And this is a learned behavior. This is something you learned because your parents, like parents, your job is to keep your kids safe. Your job is to, you know, teach your kids how to make decisions. Your job is to set boundaries for your children so that they can grow up and become independent human beings. But your frame of reference when you are a kid is all about the adults around you.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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And because as a kid, you don't know why mommy's mad. So you think you're the reason why mommy's mad. So you then make it your job to make sure mommy's not mad. Or you sit there and say something must be wrong with me when mommy's mad. And so that's why you get so obsessed with trying to control the states of emotion and what other people are doing or not doing. Because you think

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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What everybody else is doing has something to do with you or means something about you. And it means nothing about you. And the reason why, and the story for how I discovered it, I would love to tell it because I think it'll kind of put you at the scene at just how dumb we are and how prevalent this is in your life. And so it is, I'm setting the scene for where I discovered this.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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So it was our son's junior prom in high school. And having already gone through four high school proms with our two daughters, I thought, this is gonna be cakewalk, man. There are no spray tans, there's no blowouts, there's no like 55 dresses. They're like, oh my God, this is gonna be amazing. It was the worst. He was way worse because he didn't communicate anything, Jamie.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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First of all, he's not going. Then he's going with a group of guys. Then we live in the middle of Vermont. Where the hell are we going to buy a tux? Then all of a sudden he decides he wants Stan Smith Adidas edition sneakers. I got to track him down. We got to have him overnighted. Now he's asking a date some chick he doesn't even know. So then there's that whole thing.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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So we are leaving to go to that pre-prom party that people tend to have where you show up at somebody's house and everybody's taking photos. And we arrive and we walk in and I'm already on edge because our son has been like...

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Imagine trying to wrestle a grizzly bear to the ground and get him into a tuxedo and then get him into the car when I realize in hindsight he's just nervous, but now I'm annoyed and I'm stressed out. And so we get to this thing. He makes a beeline for all of his friends, does not introduce us to his date. Everybody's really awkward in terms of the kids, but they all look fantastic.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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About 20 minutes in, we're settling down. I'm starting to feel a little less on edge and out of nowhere, I'm talking nowhere. This is like a freak mountain storm. It starts to rain sideways. There's not a single person that has an umbrella or a raincoat. Now it starts to hail. The umbrella on the deck goes tumbling off to the right and all the parents are now circling, right?

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And murmuring and what's going to happen. And I walk over to Oakley and I tap him on the shoulder and I'm like, Oak, what are you guys doing for dinner? Because it's 4.30 in the afternoon. The prom starts at seven. Clearly they have a dinner plan, right? He kind of shrugs his shoulders like, I don't know. I'm like, you don't have a reservation for dinner? It's the prom, dude.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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I don't know what we're doing. Do you want me to call the inn? Do you want me to do this? He's like, mom. And I start ramping up. In my mind, you know, like I'm going to fix the situation for him. So he's talking to his friends. I'm on my phone trying to find a reservation. There isn't a reservation anywhere in our small town because obviously other people had thought about this.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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Doesn't seem like any of the other kids in this group have a reservation either. And all of a sudden they start walking toward the door. No coats, no raincoats. Like it is raining sideways, Jamie. She is going to ruin her dress, her hair, her makeup, his sneakers destroyed, the rented tux out. I'm just like, all the other parents, where are you guys going?

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I think we're going to go to the cilantro bowl. And that's when all the parents are now like, we're going to repeat it. Everyone's controlling the situation. It's complete chaos. We've all been in this kind of moment. Our daughter, Kendall, who we've just been talking about, was home for the weekend. She gently reaches over and she grabs my arm and she shakes it and she says, mom, let them.

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I'm like, what? What do you mean let them? I'm like on the phone, on hold, trying to get, let them what? Let them go to the slaughter ball. But, but it's raining, but it's small, but it's like a small thing. They're not even, let them go to a small place they can't fit in. But he's going to ruin his shoes. Let him ruin his shoes. But her dress. Let her ruin her dress.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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Because when you're so busy controlling other people, you actually don't see who they are.

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Mom, it's their prom, not yours. Let them. And it was something about that moment and her repeating those words and repeating those words and repeating those two words, let them, let them, let them, let them. And her hand on my bicep that made me just de-escalate internally.

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And as I started to deescalate internally and kind of just let them and let them do and not need to control it, my thinking came back online and I thought, why do I care? Why am I not making a reservation for myself for dinner? Who cares? Why am I doing this to myself? And so I walk up to Oak and I tap him on the shoulder and he turns around and he's like, what? Like, here's 20 bucks.

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Go have fun. And this huge smile like lit up his face and right out the door into the sideways rain they went, trashing his shoes and her dress. It was adorable. And over the course of the next couple weeks, I couldn't believe how often I had the experience for myself where I was getting hooked by what other people are doing. Why is a celebrity promoting this thing? Why is this happening?

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Why can't we do it this way? Why is the government doing this? Why is the traffic doing this? Why are my friends having lunch and they didn't invite me? Why this? Why that? Like all of this time and energy getting cooked up about my opinions about what other people are doing or not doing. or my expectations about how things should be done. Oh, the school should be.

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“Saying These 2 Words Can Fix Your Anxiety & Help You Take Control of Your Emotions & Your Life! LET THEM!”

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You got a lot of let thems that you need to bring into the school. The teacher should be. And so what happened is I started to develop this theory. Wow. The more that I just let them, I let adults be adults. I let other people live their lives.

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And if you turn inward and you say to yourself, What are the things that I want to outgrow in myself? What are the things that I really want to learn or that I've been afraid to do? Or what is something that I could do today that I don't feel like doing? That singular commitment to yourself, to just push yourself to do something that feels hard,

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that has a material impact on who you are as a person. And what the science says is it has an impact on how long you live.

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Yes. And a couple of things, because I can give you the research around how to accelerate the feeling that it's not that hard anymore. Because if you really think about what a habit is- Okay, tell me more. Yeah, because- Because I've got some habits to break. Well, you know, we're not robots. Yeah. And I think a lot about habits as just patterns that you repeat. That's what a habit is.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And right now you have a habit of, for example, when you pull your pants on, what leg do you put in your pants first? You have to stop and think about it, right? Mm-hmm. Why? Because you've actually automated that pattern.

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Now, when you're teaching one of your kids how to do it right now, it's tedious because they're having to train their right or left foot, whatever the pattern ends up being, and the motor pattern of doing that until they learn it so that they don't have to think about it anymore. I don't have to think about operating my coffee machine. I know how to do it without thinking about it.

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I don't have to think about brushing my teeth. I know how to do it without thinking about it. There's a lot of thinking involved with getting to the gym. Do you notice that? Because you have certain feelings about it. I don't ever roll up to my bathroom counter and go, I don't feel like brushing my teeth this morning. I just do it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so I want you to really simplify what it means to create a habit. It means that you have trained your mind, body, and spirit that this is a pattern that we do and that you don't throw an adult temper tantrum about doing it. That's it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so when we're talking about making it stick, what you're actually talking about is teaching your body that this is something that we do and we don't throw temper tantrums around it. We just do it. And even if I'm kind of tired this morning, I'm still going to brush my teeth. because it's a pattern that I do. So that's really what we're talking about, okay?

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so there are a couple things that make it easier. First of all, let's go back to some of the rules that I've taught you. Human beings only do the things that they feel like doing. And if you are constantly resisting a new pattern of behavior, you have to look at why do you want this pattern of behavior? If you are trying to get to the gym because you think you should, you never will.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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There's a lot of research about goals and why you have a goal is one of the foundational indicators of whether or not you will actually achieve it. And too many of you are thinking that you should do certain things, but you don't have a clue why you want it. See, one of the reasons why I exercise every day, Jamie, is not so that I look good in a bathing suit.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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It is not so that I weigh a certain thing. The reason why I exercise every single day is because I want to live a very long and a very vibrant life. And I know that what I do right now at 55 will determine most likely whether or not at the age of 90, I can pick up my own carry-on suitcase and put it in the overhead bin on an airplane.

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It will determine whether or not I am the kind of grandparent that can boogie down at a wedding of one of my grandkids. It will determine how long I am able to climb up in the mountains where I live in Southern Vermont. And I care about that.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And I also care about showing up in the work that I do and showing up with the people that I have in my life and being as present and as focused and as curious and as smart as I possibly can be. And so I understand the direct impact that resistance training and taking a walk outside and taking care of my health will have on the kind of life I want.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And that's something that will lower the resistance that you feel because the reason is bigger than the bullshit in the moment.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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The second thing that you can do is ask yourself once you know why you want the habit, because again, if you don't really want to lose weight, like there's a lot of you out there that keep going, oh, I really love to have bikini abs and all this bullshit, you know, I'm not willing to do the work. So I really don't want it that bad, do I? So why keep torturing myself?

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I don't give a shit about flat abs. I don't give a shit that my butt looks like a pancake when I'm walking around. I don't care because that's not going to impact what I care about. If you really care about having a bubble butt, then get clear about it and prove it. And so step one, figure out why it matters to you. And it's got to be deeply personal, not a should, it's a want.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Second thing, ask yourself, how do I make this easier? How can I make this easier? Could you play music that you like? Like one thing that made exercise super easy for me, ready? On Sunday nights, Jamie, I go through, this is so dumb, but this is literally a game changer.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I take the time, it usually takes about a half an hour, believe it or not, to figure out what my workouts are going to be for the week. Because I started to realize, okay, I was getting my tights on and I was getting myself to our gym at the house. But when I got up there, I'd be like, okay, what am I going to do? Should I get on the treadmill today? Should I stream something?

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Should I jump on this? And it was in the like, what should I do? that I literally lost motivation. And I'd futz around up there, and then I'd be looking at social media because I'm trying to find something to stream, have not made it easier for me.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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So now that I'm like, on Monday, I'm doing this, on Tuesday, I'm doing that, on Wednesday, I'm doing this, on Thursday, I'm taking the dogs here, it's planned, and that works for me. So Post-it notes, how can you make it easier for you? Do not, in any behavior change, do not manage a shit in your head. You will lose. Write it down on a post-it note.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Stick it in front of your face, on your computer. Set an alarm in your phone. You are a busy human being with a lot going on. You cannot manage the stuff in your mind. You will forget.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And then number four, and this is huge. You have to celebrate the thing that you did that day. So I don't ever leave the gym without high-fiving the mirror because the fact that I actually got there is a big deal. I don't ever kind of finish my, I drink like eight cups of water a day and I do it in kind of one of those big kind of adult sippy cup water colors. When I finish, I'm like, good job.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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You need to high five your way forward because that little bit of praise seals the cycle. And we can dig deeper into the science, but really you got to count the wins. You have to, otherwise you are not going to continue to feel like you want to do it. You got to be your own cheering squad. Like we, we put too much praise or we put too much weight in other people celebrating what we're doing.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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They can't even celebrate themselves. So they're not going to celebrate you in most cases. And when you need celebration is not when you lose the weight. It's not when you land the job. It's when every single day you sit down for what I call the hot 15 and you spend 15 minutes doing the thing you don't want to do, sending the resume. You got one resume out today, celebrate that.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Celebrate it for real. Because I know how hard that was. And the celebration can just be like, good job. All right, let's go do something else.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I'm trying to like describe this look.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I'm just really proud of what I see in this moment is Not pride as a mom. I see so much recognition of how much our daughter, Kendall in particular, had to push through. to release that song and to go for this dream. And I, the single most important person in my life other than my relationship to myself is my relationship with my husband, Chris. And I, I just freaking love him so much.

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And that sounds so, I don't know, like I don't even have the words to describe how grateful I am to have him in my life. And I think the reason why I say that is because he is willing to do the work to grow together. And It hasn't always been easy. It isn't in any relationship, especially those that go the distance.

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And we have been working so hard in therapy to really, truly understand each other, to understand the things that we haven't talked about in terms of how our childhoods have affected us and how it affects the way that we show up in the marriage. And I'm experiencing

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I'm trying to figure out how to say this in a way that might... I'm at a really awesome moment with my family because I feel as though all five of us are in this moment where we are stepping into a new version of ourselves. Our son is about to go to college.

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Our other daughter just traveled through Asia for five months solo as a backpacker, something she had been dreaming of doing for 10 years, saving the money. Things got derailed because of the pandemic and she quit her job and did it. And now I see her back living home and figuring out what's next, a blank slate. And I see her leaning in.

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And one of the things that I am very, very, very proud of is that Chris and I took a stance as parents that our job was not to create many versions of ourselves. Our jobs as parents were to figure out how to best support Kendall, Sawyer, and Oakley in becoming who they're supposed to become. And

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Now that we're 24 years into that, and some of the ways that we would do that just in terms of strategies is whenever we go to the school kind of meetings, you know, the parent-teacher conferences, never talk grades. Never talk grades. The first question out of my mouth is describe how they are as a human being. And that sort of focus on how do you treat other people? How do you treat yourself?

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Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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What do you actually want in your life? What do you care about? What kind of person do you want to be? Those sorts of things are hard to teach. And I'm really proud of the fact that we have built a family where everybody is uniquely their own person. But I mean, it feels weird because I feel like I'm bragging. The level of emotional engagement is just insane with our family.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And I attribute a lot of it to Chris actually. So my husband, Chris, he had a very traditional career path, chasing wealth, chasing the next job, chasing the corporate ladder, wanting to kind of be as if not more successful than his dad was. And his life didn't turn out that way.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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the restaurant business did not work out he nearly bankrupted our family had a lot of shame about it and in that happening there was this miraculous gift that happened for our family and it was this our kids got to witness their parents struggling profoundly and our kids got to witness a mom and a dad completely reverse roles. And so they grew up with a dad that was home. And the truth is,

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

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Chris is a deeply spiritual and caring and grounded human being. He's a meditation instructor. He leads men's retreats called Soul Degree. He is a death doula and does counseling at End of Life. And he is about to finish his master's in transpersonal psychology.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

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so that he can do integration work with people who are doing the really exciting new psychedelic healing modalities with therapeutic guidance. And so he's a very grounded, amazing, just centered human being.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And that is evident in all three of our children because he was the one who was home while I was off racing around like an anxiety-ridden lunatic trying to make as much money as possible so that I could get us out of debt. And so I feel very grateful for everything that has happened in our lives, good and bad.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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The thing that scares me the most is that our lives go by in just the blink of an eye. And we take for granted the time that we have. I don't know a single couple that's been married for a long time that hasn't had that horrific period in their marriage. And I think what you do in those moments is everything. It's been a really shitty three years.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Um, because I'm finally at a point, Jamie, where I feel like we're through the crisis of the last 20 years. And that the most important thing to me is not missing out on any more of it and being able to be home more. And I think the thing that scares me the most is that our lives go by in just the blink of an eye. And... we take for granted the time that we have.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And there's this really scary study called the American Time Study that shows that from the moment that your kids turn 18, there is a massive drop, like it falls off a cliff in terms of how often you see them. And then by the time they reach 21, it flatlines. and it stays the same for the rest of your life.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And from the age of 20 to 60, the people that you see most day to day are the people you work with, not your family, not your partner. And by the time you turn 40, the amount of time that you're gonna be spending alone with yourself increases every single year. And so I am acutely aware of the amount of time that is passing by. And I sometimes torture myself about it.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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But I really want to spend as much time with our adult kids as I possibly can. I love them and my husband more than anybody on the planet. And I'm working very hard to keep the phone off me and to be truly present when I am with them.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima!

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I, I, I, I'm, it has, it's been a really shitty three years. Like, you know, we've gone through a lot of changes of family and Chris and I have been going through a ton of therapy to try to figure out this new phase of life together and to work through a bunch of stuff that went down as the

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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It's interesting because I don't know a single couple that's been married for a long time that hasn't had that horrific period in their marriage. And I think what you do in those moments is everything. Because if you're willing to turn toward this person and you're willing to stop complaining about where you're at and remind yourself of the actual heart of the person that you're with,

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And if they're willing to turn into your relationship in terms of the relationship that results from facing the worst parts of it. So like I think about a marriage as three people. It's you, it's your partner, and the marriage is the third person.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And if you look at the marriage with open eyes or the relationship that you're in with open eyes, and again, got to have a partner that's willing to do this, and you're willing to confront the worst about the third person in the room, which is the marriage. The marriage that results from taking responsibility for what doesn't work.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

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based on where you are now as individuals and doing the work to confront the worst parts of your marriage and learn how to show up differently so that that third party, the marriage itself can grow, you will be just blown away by the level of intimacy and connection that you can create. It's easier to be pissed off at somebody. It's easier to think you know somebody.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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It's easier to blame it on them and to get stuck in these patterns. But boy, oh boy, I want you to consider you have no clue who you are and you have no clue who you're married to and you have no clue what's possible when you're willing to face what's not working.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I don't know. Because I think it is... I think it's arrogant to think you know somebody. I mean, what you need to know about other human beings is true about all human beings. That we all just want to be seen And we want to feel appreciated for the things that we're doing. And we want to feel loved for who we are, not judged for who we are. And presuming that I know him,

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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doesn't give him the space to really grow. Like I know he has a kind heart and I know that he is a thinker and I know that he does acts of service and I know that he is a very spiritual and kind man. But do I really know what he's thinking? No.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Reading it? Sure. Aww. Aww. I'm not going to get through this. Mel, despite your quick trip away, I wanted you to know that I really miss you. Not a sad or lonely missing, but a joyful, sweet absence. As you know, I have recently been making concentrated and kooky efforts to feel energy around me. In the house... in the town, or just walking through the woods.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I have been actively trying to sense and feel energetic vibes. Evidently, it's working because I find myself more present than ever feeling the void of your vibrant, happy, game-on energy. I missed it yesterday while passing by your empty office, last night around the dining room table, and even right now knowing you're not sleeping on the other side of my office wall.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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After almost 30 years, I can truly say with every ounce of my soul, I love you more than ever. And I thank the stars above for giving us the courageous hearts and minds we both needed to weather all the tornadoes and floods and wildfires that have ripped through our time together. Oddly, these beautiful and difficult experiences are what make me so incredibly proud of us.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I'm beginning to realize that even the simple act of channeling gratitude is a form of energy. I'm doing that right now for you, with you, around you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you. Thank you for being the remarkable source of power and light that you are and for loving me as you do. I can't wait to see you on Tuesday. Chris.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I feel... He talked about energy. And Chris is a very methodical and quiet and introverted person. And he has been trying to bring online more kind of like emoting and like the kind of, like he talked about it, this energetic vibe. And I raise that because what I'm present to is gonna sound really kooky and weird, but there is the physical life and relationship that you have.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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There's the intellectual life and relationship that you have. And then there's this entirely different dimension to life. this quantum nature of things. And I guess that's why it's hard for me to describe where I am with Chris and with my kids, because I feel that we are bound at this fifth dimension.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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this quantum realm where from a soul to soul level, I feel that invisible thread that is very real, that connects me to the people in my family and to Chris in particular. And so I'm very present to that right now. Like if you look on your find me and you've got your family, I feel like sitting in this chair, there is this entered energetic field that we are all connected to.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Mm-hmm.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And you can't do that if you're constantly wishing they would change. And you can't do that if you're constantly griping about who they are. And you can't do that until you give another human being the absolute freedom to be exactly who they are and exactly who they aren't.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Oh, man.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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They're really incredible.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Okay.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I just need to warn you, I'm terrible at spelling. That'll make it better.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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There's some new shoes coming to Vermont, people. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And the one thing I want to say to you quickly, you don't have to do this. And I want to acknowledge the fact that even though you have created a life that anyone could ever dream of. Your heart is so huge and your call to serve is so big that you are not stopping. You are going to keep on going because of what you have to give to the world. And I am so proud to call you my friend. I love you.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Yeah. Motivation is garbage. And the reason why is it's never there when you need it. Like, I think one of my biggest messages, don't expect it to be easy. Why are you expecting to feel like going to the gym? Like, just because you bought a cute outfit, you know, to go doesn't mean you're going to feel like going.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And the mistake that I see everyone making over and over and over again is putting all your time and energy into planning for things and getting ready to do things and thinking about things and then not understanding that the moment that it's time to do the thing, you're not gonna feel like doing the thing.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so you're sitting around waiting for that moment to feel ready, to feel like it's perfect, to feel inspired. It's not coming. It's not coming. And just think about how liberating it is if you lived your life with the simple truth that I will never feel like doing the things I need to do, but I'm gonna do them anyway.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I am not going to be the kind of person that lets my insecurity or my mood in the moment or how I feel about something right now and all that stuff to override the actions that I need to take in order to become the kind of person that I'd like to become.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And this is one of the reasons why I am constantly showing the worst of what I'm dealing with and the worst of what it's like in day-to-day life in my own life to people. Because it may surprise you to hear, I am not motivated. I'm very clear about what I want. I'm very clear about the actions I need to take. And I'm very clear that nine times out of 10, I'm not gonna wanna do it.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Like, you know, we've gone through a lot of changes as a family and Chris and I have been going through a ton of therapy to try to figure out this new phase of life together and to work through a bunch of stuff that went down. And we have been working so hard in therapy to really, truly understand each other, to understand the things that we haven't talked about. And this is huge.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I don't spring out of bed like a chicken and then lace up my running shoes and then go for a run as if it's some sort of commercial. I drag myself out of bed when I don't feel like it. I go into that bathroom, brush my teeth. I grape and groan the whole way to the closet where I pick out my tights that are laid on the floor.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I even lay my exercise clothes out because I know I don't want to put them on. Because I don't want to exercise. But you know what? The insecure past me is not going to win. Because I'm not sitting around waiting to feel like this is going to be a good idea. When I wake up in southern Vermont and it's 50 degrees and raining on a January morning, first of all, I'm angry it's not snowing.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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But secondly, do I feel like going outside and taking the walk that I need to take? Of course not. But I do it anyway. And see, that's the difference. That's the difference between the old me and who I am today. Because the old me was full of excuses. Oh, it's raining. I'm not going. What are you going to melt? Give me a break.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Oh, you know, I'd rather, you know, I feel like having a glass of wine. No, I got stuff I need to do. I used to be completely at the whim of my emotions. And right now, as you're listening, that's your problem. You know what you need to do. You do not feel like doing it. And, you know, I get so frustrated because I think that that word motivation is just thrown around like candy.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And it's just become like people just pay lip service to it. And if you just flush down the toilet the belief that someday you'll feel ready to do the thing, you'd probably do the thing right now.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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I give up the belief that it's going to be automatic. Like I think all this 21-day stuff is horseshit because if you – and that's not even the research. Like the research is the habit – quote, becomes something that's a pattern somewhere between like nine days and 237 days. Habit formation is highly variable. It depends on the actual habit and it depends on the person.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so I think it's easier for me, this is just me personally, I think it's easier to presume that this stuff is never going to become automatic. I think it's easier to presume that I will never like getting out of bed. I will never greet the alarm at 515 like some songbird that is summoning me to a beautiful day and that it's okay. And I instead, Jamie,

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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set up tricks and traps to make it easier to not opt out. So I'll give you some examples. When I wake up in the morning, my phone is in the bathroom and the alarm is going off on my phone. Why? Because I don't feel like getting out of bed. But now I don't have a choice because I set a trap for the worst parts of me. The phone is in the bathroom. To get the alarm off, I have to get out of bed.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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There's an example of making change stick. I'm not relying on emotion and willpower. I've set a trap to make it happen. When I walk into my closet, my clothes are already laid out. Why? Because that's what's called an environmental trigger. First of all, I've just made it easier. I've taken one step out and now I've got a visual reminder. Oh yeah, here we go.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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The only way you make change stick is by, it may surprise you to hear, I am not motivated. Motivation is garbage. Jamie, I go through, this is so dumb, but this is literally a game changer. You started crying. Yeah.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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No matter what you feel like putting on, this is what you need to put on. When I get into the kitchen, right in front of the coffee maker, I used to be the kind of person that would roll out of bed and I would army crawl my way right to that coffee maker, tap suck that sucker, get the caffeine in. Now that I understand the research, I don't do that for an hour or two.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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So what's sitting right in front of the coffee maker, because that's where I will go, is my water bottle already filled up and all of the supplements I need to take. Why? Because it is a visual reminder and it is one step taken so that I can make it stick. And see, I believe that most change doesn't stick. And we are being sold a fairy tale to think that you can make it stick.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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The only way you make change stick is by doing it. And if you accept the premise that I am here to offer, that some old version of you is always going to be right there in the moment, and you are going to have to make that new change stick,

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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then you're not going to fall into the trap of presuming that there's some short, there's some shortcuts, some this, some that, some other thing, because you can put up all the post-it notes in the world. You can put your phone in the bathroom and set the alarm so you have to turn it off.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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But if you're not willing to do the hard stuff, if you're not willing to push yourself, Jamie, through the excuses, a lot of you will just climb right back in bed with your phone and spend the next hour scrolling. A lot of you will push that coffee maker to the side or that water bottle to the side and make a cup of coffee.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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A lot of you will see the tights on the floor and notice that it's cold outside and be like, me, not today. I don't feel like it. Okay. Your life. You get to choose. Just don't bitch about it when you don't have what you want because you're not willing to do the work. I told you I was a lot meaner than you are. Jamie will tell you she believes in you and I'll be like, prove it.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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You want to know what a habit's really easy to make stick, Jamie? When you like it. I could make it a habit real fast of eating ice cream every day after dinner because I like it. Yeah, because I like it.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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Yeah, and that was a research study that was done where they were looking at habit formation. And the habit that they were trying to make automatic was the habit of taking a 10-minute walk after dinner. So on its face, not a difficult habit, right?

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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But in terms of the research study, when it became automatic, and when you look at the research, what automatic means is that you don't feel resistance to doing it. Like I have zero resistance to making an ice cream sundae. Just freaking love that stuff, right? I have a lot of resistance to exercising on a day that I have to lift weights.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so they're looking at how long in terms of trying to repeat something before you stop dreading it. And the other thing that's very interesting, I don't remember the name of the part of the brain, but there's a lot of really interesting research around willpower where they look at a part of your brain And I don't remember the name of it. It's both on the left and right-hand side of your brain.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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But it is the part of the brain that grows when you do something that you don't feel like doing. So I'm gonna say it again. It's the part of your brain that grows when you do things that you don't feel like doing. So that might mean that you're somebody that is a writer and every time you sit down and you make yourself right when you don't feel like it, that part of your brain actually grows.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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When you step in the cold plunge, when you don't feel like it, that part of your brain grows. But it only grows when you're doing things you don't want to do.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And what's fascinating about this, and this is fairly new research, I heard Huberman talking about it the other day, and I can't remember the name, I believe it's a female neuroscientist that's doing the research around this, that when they look at people that live very long lives, that part of the brain is larger.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Mel Robbins: How to Make Your Habits Stick! The Secrets to Resetting Your Habits and Your Life That Actually Work!

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And so they now are starting to believe that it's not really about willpower, it's about the will to live. And forcing yourself through that resistance to try new things, to do things that you don't feel like, to push yourself, that that is tied to you living a long and amazing life. And it makes sense because human beings are designed in every aspect to grow.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Can I say something? Please. Here's the thing, because it builds on what you're talking about with conflict.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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The mistake that we make is we think that the organizing conflict is what's happening out there. I don't think that's necessarily true. And if you're stuck or struggling right now or you're in the middle of a big reinvention or a change that you want to make, I want you to own the fact that the actual conflict that is powerful is the internal conflict that you're feeling.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because you know you're not in the right job. You know you're not in the right relationship. You know that you're not taking good care of yourself. You know that something is off. And so that internal conflict is hardwired into that...

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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gps system in your body that is trying to keep you aligned and on a path that is aligned with your values and what you deserve in life and so i love that you're starting with this idea of conflict because you know people get stuck and frustrated and lost and then they get scared because that feels very agitating and disorienting that's a really good conflict because it means that internally

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Your body is trying to wake you up and have you go ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This job doesn't work for me. I shouldn't be treated like this. I'm no longer happy in this relationship. I need to do something about it.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Well, all I'm going to say is that Jefferson has the single best advice on the planet when it comes to the things to say in response to difficult people and how to have difficult conversations. And so here's the thing, though, is that if in a moment when you're dealing with somebody who is gaslighting you, or belittling you, or they're getting very argumentative.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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If you allow your fear of that person, or your fear of conflict, or your desire to be liked to rise up, all of those emotions and feelings will prevent you from using the tools that Jefferson is teaching you. Because you can know what to say in a moment, but if you're suddenly afraid of somebody else's reaction, if you say, I feel how I feel, we see things differently.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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If you're afraid of that and for 30 years of your life, you have just gone silent when you're nervous that somebody's gonna be mad at you or you're nervous somebody's gonna be disappointed or you're nervous that somebody's gonna try to guilt you,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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The let them theory is going to give you power and it is also going to teach you how to not allow those very normal fears to stop you from using the tools that Jefferson is teaching you. So let's just take an example of like, we'll go light to heavy. So let's just take the example of guilt.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Let's say that you have a friend and your friend is having a 38th birthday party and they've invited 12 people. And so you're all going to go to a restaurant and it's going to be, you know, we all been there. There's 12 people. It's a loud restaurant. You can't talk to anybody. Then we're going to split the check. It's a Thursday night. You have no interest in going.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And the only reason why you are feeling like you should go is because you think your friend is going to be passive aggressive. You think your friend is going to be disappointed. This is where the let them theory comes in.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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In order to make the decision that you want to make, which is I'm not going, in order to have the difficult conversation, which for many of us is simply picking up the phone and saying, hey, Jefferson, I just love you. I really want to celebrate for you for your birthday.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I don't have it in me to be at a big party this week, but I would love to take you out on Sunday and just the two of us go for a hike and we could spend some alone time together. It would be incredible. That conversation for a lot of people is terrifying because I don't want to have to deal with your emotions.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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But if you start to use the let them theory, which is let them be disappointed, let them try to guilt you, let them even be a little passive aggressive with you. Oh, you can't, are you sure? You know, I really wanted you there. It's such a bummer. Oh, really? Let them. Let them feel what they feel. Let them express what they express.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And what happens then when you let other people be who they are and be who they're not, and you understand that you can never control what somebody else says, you can't control their emotions, you can't control immature behavior. So let them act how they're going to act. But don't ever let your fear of what they're going to do stop you from having the courage of making decisions that work for you.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so the theory is two parts. The first part is anytime you get nervous around somebody else or you're annoyed or you're afraid or you start people pleasing or you're about to use the tools for Jefferson and then you go to freeze, just say, let them. Let them be disappointed. They're allowed to be disappointed. Let them be upset. They're allowed to be upset.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Let them like misunderstand like my intention here. Let them, let them, let them. Then let me remind myself

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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that i get to choose what i do with my time and energy i get to choose what i think about this and i get to choose what i do with my emotions let me tell this person the truth and then let them have their reaction and so it creates this boundary between you and everybody else that allows you to understand what's your responsibility to manage

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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That's a fantastic question. No, I'm serious. Because how you talk to yourself matters. And I'm 56 years old right now. And how I spoke to myself, my self-talk, was very different for the first 52 years of my life from how it is now.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And what's not, and what's always your responsibility to manage is your health, your time, your energy, and your truth. What's not your responsibility to manage is another adult's emotional reaction or another adult's communication style. That's theirs. So let them know. Do what they're going to do. Let them say what they're going to say. Let them be who they're going to be.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And let me show up in a way that's aligned with my values and communicate as clearly as I can, apologize for what I need to apologize for, and then move on like a mature adult.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You know, it's a great question because I don't think you can hold other people accountable. I think we have to start holding ourselves accountable. for telling the truth, for living according our values, for apologizing when our choices and decisions have unintended impact on other people. I feel like instead of trying to hold everybody else accountable,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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really stop giving your power to other people and focus on the second part of the theory, which is the let me part. Let me hold myself accountable to my own standards and operating with a level of compassion and character. that makes me proud of myself.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because when you understand your intentions and when your actions are aligned with what you know to be true and with your best efforts to be a good person and to be compassionate and to make decisions that certainly are the best decisions for you given everything that you know or are dealing with, but also that takes into consideration other people, there are gonna be plenty of times where I choose to go to the birthday party

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because even though I don't really want to go, it just feels like the right thing to do based on my values. And so I feel like there's too much focus on trying to hold other people accountable. And that if you're feeling that the let them theory and saying let them has made you passive or withdraw, then you're making a major mistake because you're not doing the second part.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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The second part is let me. The second part is where the power is. Everybody loves saying let them because there's a bit of superiority that you feel when you're like, let them, let them be disappointed, let them be good, let them do this, let them do that. But the let me part is, well, hold on a second. What does it mean to me to be a good friend?

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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What does it mean to me to be a good family member? You know, what does it look like if I take full accountability and I hold myself accountable for the kind of relationship that I want with my family or my partner or my colleagues, then how do I need to show up?

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Not as a I do this, you do that, or it's transactional, but rather if I want a great social life, isn't it my responsibility to create that? Yeah.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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if i want a wonderful relationship with my sister isn't that my responsibility to create and look you know there's a lot of people that write in and say i'm using this and i'm realizing i'm the only person in my family that ever reaches out and that happens and what you then have to do is you've got to go let them my siblings are who they are they have the amount of stuff on their plate that they have they have the personalities and the stories that they have they are who they are i need to learn to let them be who they are

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And I heard somebody, there's an incredible woman who I'm sure you know, and if as you're listening to us, you don't recognize this name, that's okay, I'm gonna tell you what she shared with me. Her name is Dr. Julie Smith. And she said recently to me, she said, now Mel, I want you to imagine, the experience of what it would be like to be locked in a room with your childhood bully for a year.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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and learn how and what kind of relationship I want to create with them as they are. Then you pull the power back to yourself. Let me ask myself, is family a core value of mine? And if it is, why do I care who's making the effort? Maybe my job in this family is to be the one that plants things. Maybe I'm the social one. Maybe my sister has things going on that she's not even telling me about.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And the fact that I keep reaching out because I can and I want to is a lifeline that she's not great at kind of making me feel good about it, but I'm not doing it for her. I'm actually reaching out for me. And I think that's a lot of it, that we reach out. Like how many times do you text somebody and you actually expect them that they should text back?

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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That there is this expectation on other people. Is it common courtesy? Of course.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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But I wish we could give each other more grace because everybody has a lot going on right now.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Yeah, that's okay. But what you can do is say, hey, I'm reaching out because I'm a little lonely. If you've got three minutes, give me a call. Instead of the hinting. Or the other thing that I think is a really important application of this is, you know, when people refer to the silent treatment, I think we think a lot about somebody just icing you out.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You know, we've all had that experience of high school, suddenly a friend's not talking to you, you have no idea what you did wrong. But I think there's a even more subtle silent treatment that happens, which is that you know that you need something or want something and you don't actually communicate it. So I'll give you an example.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Let's say all you want to do this Sunday is sit on the couch with your special person and your kids, your partner, whomever, and just watch a big old movie marathon, right? And then Sunday morning rolls around, your partner wakes up and is like, hey, so-and-so called and invited me to go play a round of golf. Is that okay? Can I go? And you're like, sure. Sure. And then what do you do?

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You sit at home and seethe. And then they come home. And then you're like doing dishes in an angry way because they should have known somehow that this was the plan and not to even ask. And they should have gone for nine holes, not 18. But you didn't communicate. And now you're punishing somebody because of your inability to communicate what you actually need.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And there's a lot of reasons why, and this is your area of expertise for why people have trouble asking for what they need. But the bottom line is, is that it is so disrespectful to punish other people because of your silence and inability to communicate. And so another way that the let them theory works there is let them know. Let them know what you need.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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That's it. And then let me be a mature adult if they say, well, actually, I'd really love to go play golf. Let them do what they're going to do. Because people's behavior reveals where you stand in their life and what's important to them. But you're never going to be important to them if you're not actually able to communicate What you need or the small changes that people want to make.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Like I was talking with one of my daughters the other day and I'm like, you know, learning how to be like pick up after yourself around the house. That's a skill. Learning how to cook a good dinner. That's a skill, dude. So if you are dating somebody that doesn't know how to do that. don't silently sit there and judge.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Like, how would that feel? And I was like, awful. I mean, and if you just imagine the person that kind of picked on you or that you were kind of afraid of or the kind of mean person that you avoided in your school, imagine being locked in a room with them for a year. It would be horrible. And then she said, well, great.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Communicate that this is something that you would love to have the two of you get better at. And so I feel like a lot of your work

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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can really help people also understand it's not just the difficult conversations that happen with people with big personalities or when there's conflict, it's that quiet internal conflict that you feel about actually just saying what's so or asking for what you need or being honest about how you feel, that these are the opportunities using all the things that you teach us, Jefferson,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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to truly understand that if you can stop being silent and learn how to communicate when it's difficult for you to say hey family i'm drowning over here i i need help i need you guys to do the i need help with the laundry i'm tired of being a every night because i'm so angry that i'm cooking dinner and i'm working full-time and i'm doing the laundry and nobody's helping me out

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You're allowed to ask, but we don't because of that conflict you've been talking about. I think sometimes those are the most difficult conversations. The simple requests that we need to make when we're not fried and emotional and pissed off with the people that we love the most.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Now imagine what it would be like to be locked in that room instead with your best friend. And that obviously would be better because you'd have a companion. You'd have somebody that you could have fun with. You'd have somebody that would cheer you up and make you feel hopeful even though you're stuck in this room together to play games with, to see the brighter side of things, to make you laugh.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You not only have that right, but I want to unpack two really important things there. So the first thing I want to unpack is the reason why the let them theory is such a phenomenon is that it does not exist in a vacuum.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I am reminding you of what you know to be true. I am not the first person, in fact, ever since we announced this book, people have come out of the woodworks, be like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. T.D. Jakes did a sermon 20 years ago, let them go. The serenity prayer is the let them theory. Buddhism, radical acceptance, stoicism, The peaceful like protest. This is all about controlling your response.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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If you've read Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl, the entire book is about the power of attitude and how the things out there. you can't control, but they don't have to impact what you're thinking about in here. These are powerful concepts that have been woven through spiritual teachings, philosophy, therapeutic modalities since the beginning of time.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I have just taken all of that and turned it into a simple tool that you activate with two words, let them and let me. And, you know, for me in my family, my mom is literally like, I've lived like this my entire life. In fact, she had a pillow that said, pull up your big girl panties and deal with it. That's let me. That's let me and my mother.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so the reason why I also believe that this has exploded is because you are being reminded of what you already know to be true. You are also being handed a tool. And this is happening at a moment in history. that feels at unprecedented levels like everything is out of control. And the headlines are overwhelming. People's stress levels are overwhelming.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Everybody has somebody in their family who is profoundly struggling. People are worried about the economy. They're worried about their kids. They're worried about the future. And it doesn't matter where you live or who you are. People are worried about AI. All of this feels like it is out of control. And this is ultimately a book about control.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And I love that visual because that is your self-communication. The person that you're locked in a room with is a visual example of how you talk to yourself.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And how when you try to control things that you can't control, like other people's opinions or their moods or their attitudes or how fast they drive or slow they drive or whether or not they ride the bumper, it just creates stress for you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And the real power in life, whether you're learning through it through stoicism or you're learning about it through Viktor Frankl's work or you're learning about it through radical acceptance, is in focusing on what you can control, which is your response, your attitude, what you choose to do or don't do in response to the things around you.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And the second thing I wanted to say about that story, because I absolutely love it, and we can all relate to that, just pull over and just, you know, how did your dad say it? Let your bad self by?

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Yeah, you're just still like, go on with your bad self. You're acknowledging the negative energy. You're allowing it, right? So now you're in control. It's not like he's run you off the road. You're like, all right, go on with your bad self. I'm in control here. Because I'm choosing to pull over and I'm choosing to recognize your energy is not affecting me.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And as I explain that metaphor for you, and as you visualize it for yourself, just the experience of what it would be like to be locked in a room with a bully versus locked in a room with a best friend, you could viscerally feel what that would be like. And I think what I didn't realize for a long time is just how loud and critical my self-talk and self-communication was.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And this is the second thing that's actually really, really important. So you talked about being in the passenger seat and feeling that volcano of stressful energy rise up in your body. And the reason why it's important to use the let them theory in the micro moments standing in line and it's taken too long.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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dealing with a frustrating customer service issue, having somebody be rude to you, like all these little things, people like stopping in front of you and then that, like whatever rude behavior, let them, let them, let them.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because every time you say let them, just like with your dad, go on with your bad self, just like when you do that, what you're doing is you're not allowing dumb things on the outside to actually steal your life force. And what I realized, Jefferson, is that

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I had no idea how even just two years ago, the age of 54, I would come barreling in to my home at the end of the day, completely stressed out from work and emails and Zoom calls and the long lines and the traffic commute home. And I'd throw my bag down and I'm all razzled and stressed out from all these micro moments. where I'm letting the stress rise up. And then what do I do? I snap at my kids.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And you taught me something. You taught me a saying that I said, that I taught to my family to say to me, which is, you know, I'm really sorry for what your work stress did to you, but you're going to have to apologize for what your work stress is doing to me. And it wasn't until I learned to say, let them.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And I started protecting myself from the unnecessary stress and frustration of all the things that happened in modern life. that I actually got on the other side of this problem. And I can now walk in to my house at the end of the day and not vomit all of that frustration and stress on my kids and my husband.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And the reason why this matters is because I think it's very hard, or at least it's very hard for me to communicate effectively or to communicate like a mature adult or with kindness

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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When I am stressed out or I am frustrated or I am tired and it has been a life changing experience in terms of the level of peace in our household and the amount of safety that I think my family feels around me like, oh, what kind of we all have that person in our family. What kind of mood are they going to be when they come home? Well, that was me.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because I was constantly allowing everything to get to me and then I would get home and I'm like a raw wire. And then that's when you use that tone or that's when you say something you regret or you send that snarky email.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And saying let them, let them, let them and protecting my peace has made me a better communicator overall because I'm actually calm and centered when I'm opening my mouth at the end of the day.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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That I didn't see the things that I did well. I saw everything I didn't do right. You know, I could have done 100 things a day, and I'm sure as you're listening to Jefferson and me right now, you've done 100 things already today, even if it's only 10 o'clock in the morning. You've done 100 things correctly. You fed the dog. You got out of bed. You selected a podcast.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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She's actually going to be on the cover. We're in all the new books. Yeah, we're putting her on the cover.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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It was really cool because, you know, what was very cool about it is it happened organically. And I'll spare you the story, but we're very different people. And my brain is sort of like, imagine you've got a cardboard box full of mice and you dump it out in a kitchen. Like, that's the way my brain works. And my daughter literally, she thinks like an Excel spreadsheet. She's a walking computer.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so the two of us working together was like, I mean... I oil and water. I was I drove her crazy. And all day long, we would have to say, let her, let her, let her, let her. I'd be like, you're so intense. This is a creative project. You got to loosen up. And then she'd be like, you're a nightmare. And we let them let them. And so the experience. Was super emotional and frustrating.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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We argued over every word, which is why the book is actually so good, because I would come to the table with a story, you know, from my life about a particular way to use let than theory. And she's like, nobody my age gives a shit about that. We're not going to put that in that book. And I'd be like, whoa, OK, well, you know, and then she'd tell a story. So it became a universal thing.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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book because we were arguing from both of our experiences to make sure that absolutely everybody could see themselves in every story either you're the villain which I normally am because I'm the one that was emotionally immature and controlling or you're the person who's having to deal with somebody who's controlling and emotionally immature and so

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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But what really happened, and this is the beauty of the theory, and this is the beauty also of learning how to speak and communicate clearly, learning how to be more compassionate, learning how to listen, learning how to create space for two things can be true at the same time, and people can come at the same thing from very, very different perspectives and still weirdly kind of want the same thing but not see it the same way.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so learning to say, let her, let her, let her, let her, it created this space between us that allowed us to actually see each other without changing each other or resenting each other for who we are for probably the first time in our lives.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And inside that space of me being able to not judge or be pissed off at how rigid and organized and like hard driving she is, and for her not to be just wanting to just throttle me for being all over the place and hard to nail down and disorganized,

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You create this space for people to be who they are, and you also create this skill of learning how to love somebody for who they are and who they aren't, and not have the things that you're trying to change or you've always wanted to change actually create frustration. You just replace it with acceptance. And it healed our relationship.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so this is really, for me, a theory that when you let other people be who they are, your relationships get better. Like part of the reason why we have so much miscommunication is because we're trying to change everybody.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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It's because we're frustrated with who people are instead of learning how to have more compassion and accept where people are at and accept that people are doing the best that they can and accept that people want to thrive. And if they're not thriving, there's probably a skill or they're feeling a little discouraged, which is why they're not doing it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Like so many things are like check, check, check, but you don't see any of those. you probably have more of a voice that's a bully. And that was my voice for 52 years. I was just laser focused on what I was doing wrong, the one thing I didn't get to. I would look in the mirror and pick myself apart. And I think that there's this mistake in society that believes that if you are tough,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so, you know, for me, not only managing my stress and having more peace has certainly impacted how I communicate, But learning how to operate with a lot more compassion and grace and acceptance has definitely changed how I communicate.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because you'll notice when you're not trying to change people and when you're no longer afraid of people's reactions, you actually create the space for open communication because there's nothing to manage.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I think you're a genius. And no, I mean it. Because I was sitting here marinating on, I don't need to change your mind. And the interesting thing, I think that also happens psychologically when you say, I don't need to change your mind. is that if somebody says that to me, there's almost this part of me, it's like, well, wait a minute. I didn't say, you know what I'm saying?

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Like you just opened the, right? Because now you have given me autonomy and agency and respect to have my own opinion. So now I'm actually open to changing it.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I don't need to change your mind.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Well, I think that the first step is you get to choose whether or not you want to. Yeah. And so I think a lot of conflict that I've felt personally in my life with people that have challenging personalities or past histories is the obligation that I'm supposed to. It's a very big change when you recognize you actually have a choice.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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or if you are hard on yourself, that somehow that is motivating you. It actually has the opposite effect. Like somehow a lot of us are very successful in life or we get through the day despite the fact That our self-communication and the way we talk to ourselves sounds more like a bully than a best friend.

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And when you have somebody in your life, especially if it's a family member, that is a very challenging personality, there is this sense that you have an obligation to love them no matter what. That's not true. You get to choose who and how you love. And when you take on, again, the let me part, let them be who they are. If they have a narcissistic personality style, that's who they are.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And the expectation that they're going to change and the hope that they will is what keeps you in conflict with this person because you're expecting them to change. You want them to change. You're hoping they're going to change. And so you bring in all that energy to the dynamic. When you just go, let them. Let them reveal who they are. This person has been who they've been for their entire life.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I know what every interaction is going to be like with this person because they're always the same. If you watch people's behavior, it's the clearest form of communication that there is. And when you let people be who they are and who they're not, and you have zero resistance to it, you now take all the power back and you say, I'm not letting them be disrespectful.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

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I'm not letting them walk all over me. I'm for the first time letting them reveal the truth of who they are. And that allows me to walk in with eyes wide open and say, live in the reality of who I'm dealing with instead of gaslighting myself being in the fantasy of who I wish this person would be.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

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And so when you just let people reveal who they are, you're not going to brace because you know that this person sucks all the wind out of every conversation or has to turn everything political or makes it all about them or everything's true. You know this going in. You're not going to waste any energy wishing it was going to be different because you know, and you're going to let them.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

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And then you're going to say, let me remind myself my time and energy. I got to protect it. I can leave any conversation, any text chain, any table, any family gathering, anytime I choose. I don't have to, I don't have to like play into this because I recognize what it is. Now here's where the loving, difficult people come in. you can still choose to love somebody who's difficult.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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There are a lot of us that have people in our families or in our lives that have somebody that either has a lot of trauma in their background and they act out in a lot of ways that are very challenging, or they have a narcissistic or borderline personality style, and it's very, very challenging and confusing, but because of your values, you choose to have this person in your life.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And when you say to yourself, I'm going to choose to love somebody who is difficult, that means you now recognize something very important. Your relationship is controlled by you. If you want it to change, it all comes from the change in your energy and your time and your boundaries with this person, because you can't change the other person. And so, you know, really,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so a couple of years ago, through a combination of just researching a project that I was working on and getting serious about therapy and working on some things in my marriage and really just saying, I don't understand why I've achieved all this stuff. But I am so burnt out and I feel like I army crawl through the day.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Number one, ask yourself, do I just feel obligated to love this difficult person or do I actually want to choose to figure out how to do this? And number two, if I were to just let them be who they are and give up any hope that they're ever changing, do I still choose loving this person? And what does that mean? And number three, let me remind myself I'm actually the one in control here.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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My relationship with this person I'm choosing to love is my responsibility. I get to choose how much time and energy I put into it. And I also get to choose to force myself to live into the reality that this is who this person is. And therefore, I will act accordingly.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Well, you're welcome, Jefferson. And I'm going to tell you something. The second your book publishes, I am going to be happy to step aside and hand that number one New York Times bestselling slot to you because you deserve it. And your book is incredible. And I cannot wait to see people read it and improve themselves because of it. So know that I'm always here cheering you on.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And it was surprising to me, although looking back, it doesn't seem surprising when you think about self-talk as either being locked in a room with a bully or locked in a room with a best friend. It was surprising to me how long I lived with a bully in my head. And what I will tell you is this. I am still productive.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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But I am more motivated, I am happier, and I am able to see the things that are going well because I have changed the way I communicate to myself.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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So there's a number of things I want to say. First of all, if you can admit to yourself that you've had it and that you're stuck or that just the way that life is going, it's just not working anymore. What I'm going to tell you, and this is going to sound awful, is congratulations because that's step one.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Step one of changing your life is having the courage to admit to yourself that the way that your life is going right now and the way that it feels for you no longer works for you. That's it. See, I think I misinterpreted what stuckness was for a long time. I thought stuck meant I'm still. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Still is what happened before.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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That's when you were going through autopilot and you're sort of just going through the motions. When you get to the point where you're like, I've had it, I'm stuck, I'm frustrated, I'm lost. I feel scared about this. That's good news because it means the energy inside you is starting to rattle around. You're no longer on autopilot. You just woke up and went, this doesn't work.

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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And so I want you to first things first, pat yourself on the back because you have declared that the way that life feels isn't how you want it to feel. And that's step one. And you can't change your life without actually doing that first. So that's why I'm gonna say, give yourself credit for recognizing you deserve more than where you're at.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Number two, I have found that in moments like that, that the most important thing that I can do next, once I say the way that my life feels no longer works for me, I need to do something. I deserve to feel happier. I deserve to feel better. I deserve to look at the next chapter of my life and build something that makes me feel a little bit better and a little bit prouder of myself.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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So once you do that, here's what I want you to do. I want you to use a tool that I've used over and over and over again to help me in these moments because it is daunting when you go, okay, I know I don't know, I know I don't want my life to feel like this, but I don't know what the heck I want. No problem. No problem.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You don't have to know exactly what you want in your life in order to change it for the better. Because if you don't know what specific career move you want to make or relationship move you want to make or what project you want to take on or whether or not you want to move somewhere, no problem.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because the single best project to take on when you don't know what to do to change your life is take on improving yourself. So make it a project to either improve your health or make it a project to improve your mental health or make it a project to learn a new skill. And the fact that you have chosen to find time to hit play on this episode and invest in listening

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

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to something that could teach you how to be a better communicator, that's an example of what I'm talking about.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because if you make yourself and your own improvement just the project you're going to focus on, that I've just spent the last 50 years taking care of everybody else for this next chapter of my life, for the next three months, the next year, whatever you want, I'm just going to make my health a priority. You do that and you will start to feel different.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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you will start to feel better, you will start to have something to focus on other than the aspects of your life that are dragging you down, and simply creating that as a project actually will help you build some forward momentum. And once you start to build forward momentum,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Now you're going to start to feel more energized and excited to maybe attack your career or attack the relationship that's not working or attack some bigger problems. But if you don't know what you want out in the future, you deserve to just make yourself healthier.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because if you can do that, you're going to feel better in a week or a month, and then that's going to give you new insight into what you actually might want to take on. So that's step number two, because a lot of times when people say I want to change and then I don't know what I want, that not knowing is what continues to keep you feeling stagnant.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

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Now, third thing I want you to do, because I have come to believe, Jefferson, after 56 years of my own challenges and successes and struggles and things that I've changed in myself and also doing the kind of work that I do,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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I have come to believe that the single biggest thing that stands in someone's way and stops them from changing their life or changing their job or becoming financially secure or whatever it may be, the single biggest thing, it's not your ability, it's not your skill level. The single biggest thing that stands in people's way is discouragement.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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This sense that as I sit here in this moment and I'm however old that I am, and I'm telling myself this self-talk that I'm stuck and that no matter what I do, it's not gonna work. And things may work out for Mel or they may work out for Jefferson, but they don't work out for a person like me. Like if you have a sense of discouragement and the self-talk keeps you feeling discouraged,

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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No advice, no plan, no nothing is going to help because the discouragement convinces you not to do anything. And so I have this exercise that I've done in my own life over and over and over again that helps me shake that discouragement, and it's this.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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If you're in a moment in your life where you're feeling very stuck, you can grasp, okay, I got it, Mel, I'm gonna work on myself or I'm gonna get a new job, whatever, but I just have this sense that it's not gonna work. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to look backward and look all the way back through your life

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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Because when you look backwards through your life, what you're going to notice is that your life is this meandering path of things that have happened good and bad to you that have all led you to this point. And even your lowest, scariest, saddest, most heartbreaking moments were still part of the fabric of experiences that led you to this moment, all of which gave you skills. It gave you wisdom.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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it brought you to where you are now. And so I think it's very easy to sit in this moment and see how even the lowest moments of your life actually led you somewhere better in the future. You can do the same thing forward to the future.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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So if you can look backwards and see all the evidence of your life pointing you to a place where you are now, even if where you are now is stuck, you're still better in many ways than where you were way back when.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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You can also stand in this moment where you feel stuck and a little lost and a little discouraged, and you can remind yourself that this moment too is but a brick on the path that is my life. And I choose to believe that there is a lesson in this moment that is meant for me.

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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And I may not understand why I need to be stuck right now, but I choose to believe that 10 years from now, I'm gonna look back on this moment here and I'm gonna understand exactly why this was part of a better future that I can't see right now. And that's how I've been able to leverage hope

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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the one the only mel robbins mel thank you so much for hopping on today jefferson has anyone ever told you you're a great communicator as you're sitting there going have you ever tried to like i'm like oh this is going to be good i wonder who he's having on this would be great yeah no seriously i'm eager to listen yeah me too

The Jefferson Fisher Podcast

Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory

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and leverage optimism when I can't quite trust in what's going to happen because I either don't know what's going to happen or I don't have a clear vision about what I want, but I can trust in my own life experience that I can figure it out and somehow it's going to make sense. And that has always just helped lift that fog and that heaviness that despair can cast on you in those moments.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. For season two. Season two. Relationships, comparisons, and growth. And I am so excited to be diving into this season with you all.

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Jetzt im Reisebüro oder auf alturs.de. Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. She had this incredible group of friends. They're all moms in the same suburban neighborhood. And for years they did everything together. Carpools, playdates, even book club.

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But then as their kids got older and everyone's lives got busier, those friendships just started to drift.

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It's the classic slow fade phenomenon where it's like you don't even realize it's happening. Then one day you look up and you're like, oh, my gosh, I haven't talked to my close friend in months.

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And it's that feeling of being out of sync that's so relatable. And I think it often stems from this unspoken expectation that friendships should just flow effortlessly. But the truth is, sometimes they require a bit of conscious effort. But that's actually a good thing because it means we have the power to shape our relationships.

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So in Mel's case, she actually decided to do something about it. She stumbled upon this framework called the Friendship Reset.

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And it completely transformed her approach to friendships. And so we wanted to do a deep dive into this framework today.

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Yeah, it's so powerful. And this framework actually has two distinct steps. The first step is called let them.

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And I love that name because it's all about releasing the need to control or change the other person. Sometimes friends drift apart for reasons that are completely outside of our control. Maybe they're going through a difficult time. Maybe their priorities have shifted or maybe they just need some space.

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And it's so easy to take that personally, like, what did I do wrong? But this let them step encourages us to approach the situation with empathy and understanding. It's about accepting that we can't force someone to be friends with us. And sometimes the best thing we can do is simply let them be where they are. And that doesn't mean we just give up on the friendship altogether.

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It's about acknowledging the current reality and allowing the relationship to unfold organically. But that doesn't mean that we sit back and do nothing. That's where the second step comes in. And this is called let me.

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And so for this deep dive, we're going to be tackling friendships.

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Let me.

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And this is where things get really interesting. The let me step shifts the focus inwards. It's about taking responsibility for our role in the friendship and asking ourselves, what can I do to nurture this connection?

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So what are your thoughts on this so far?

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Exactly. And one of the first tools within the, let me say, it's called the friendship audit.

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S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Specifically how to create those unshakable bonds that last a lifetime.

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I love this idea. Have you ever done a friendship audit?

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I think that's so important because sometimes we get so caught up in the routine of friendships that we don't stop to evaluate whether they're truly serving us or not.

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So how does this friendship audit work in practice? Do you have any tips for our listeners on how to do it effectively?

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But you know what's interesting? Even though I think we all crave that deep connection, friendships can feel really, really tricky to navigate.

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Like a relationship checkup.

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And one of the most important questions to ask yourself during this audit is, do I feel seen and valued in this friendship? Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. Because ultimately we all crave that sense of belonging and deep connection. And if a friendship isn't providing that, it might be time to reevaluate its role in our lives.

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Because it's not just about what we're getting from the friendship. It's also about what we're contributing. And we're constantly giving without receiving anything in return. It can lead to resentment and burnout.

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Let me stop.

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Okay. Vulnerability. This is where things get really personal. So what are vulnerability scripts?

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I love that because sometimes it's hard to know where to begin, especially when we're talking about vulnerable topics. These scripts give us a framework for expressing our feelings and needs in a way that feels safe and authentic.

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So could you give us some examples?

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I love those. And I think what makes those so effective is that they're direct and honest without being accusatory.

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And by opening up in this way, we create space for our friends to do the same, which can ultimately lead to a deeper, more fulfilling connection.

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It's about reclaiming our agency and recognizing that we have the power to shape our relationships, even when they feel messy or challenging.

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Absolutely. OK, so we've talked about the friendship audit and vulnerability scripts like two really powerful tools for taking ownership of our friendships. But the friendship reset framework doesn't stop there.

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OK, I'm intrigued.

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S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, so tell me more about accountability actions. What do they look like in real life?

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Okay.

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Oh, I love that.

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I love that idea because it's so easy to let those friendships kind of slip through the cracks when we get busy.

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But if we're scheduling those check-ins and make sure that we're making time for those connections.

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It's just that dedicated space for connection.

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The five minute rule. That sounds intriguing. Tell me more.

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It is. It's like we get busy. Life throws us curveballs and sometimes those close connections just start to fade. And it's so frustrating.

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And it's amazing how those little tiny gestures can make someone feel so seen.

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Appreciated.

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Cared for.

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A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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All right. We're back. Let's continue. You know, we actually heard a story from one of our listeners who used this approach to repair a friendship that had been broken for 10 years.

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I know. 10 years.

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And they sent a simple text message, apologizing for ghosting and expressing their desire to reconnect.

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Right. And you know what? The friend responded immediately.

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Even heartbreaking.

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They'd also missed the friendship and were so relieved to hear from our listener. And so they ended up having this long phone call and are now back in each other's lives.

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It really is. And it all started with that one small step of reaching out.

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And speaking of vulnerability.

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The Friendship Reset also includes a really helpful tool called the Vulnerability Checklist.

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I love checklists. So tell me about this.

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Yeah, they're so practical.

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Okay.

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It's so easy to just fall into routine with our friends.

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And just kind of skim the surface. But this checklist really challenges us to go deeper.

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And explore the true potential of those relationships.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

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Yeah. And sometimes those deeper conversations can lead to challenging topics or disagreements.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's so important because let's be honest, navigating difficult conversations can be incredibly daunting, especially when it comes to our closest friends.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah. And I think, you know, speaking of that, we actually got a letter from a listener named Emil who was going through something similar. OK, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

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So instead of avoiding those tough topics, we can actually address them head on.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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With the goal of strengthening the friendship.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Rather than damaging it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And even though these conversations might be challenging, they're often necessary for growth and deeper understanding.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So we've covered a lot of ground here.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We've talked about the friendship reset framework, which includes the let them step, the let me step with its tools like the friendship audit vulnerability scripts, accountability actions, the vulnerability checklist, and even the hard conversation template. It's an incredibly comprehensive approach to building and nurturing those unshakable friendships that I think we all crave.

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And it all starts with that shift in mindset from let them to let me.

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From acceptance to action.

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And sometimes all it takes is one small step to make a world of difference. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, we're back. Let's continue.

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And remember, you don't have to do this alone.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah, so if you're feeling inspired to try the Friendship Reset, head over to TheMessyPodcast.com.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

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We've packed it with practical tips, insightful exercises and real life stories to help you cultivate deeper, more fulfilling friendships. And it's like this whole idea of the friendship reset takes the pressure off of having these perfect Instagram worthy friendships.

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like we're constantly comparing our messy, complicated relationships to these curated snapshots of perfection.

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And it just leads to so much self-doubt and insecurity.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But the truth is friendships are messy.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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They do evolve and they do require effort. And the friendship reset embraces that reality.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah, because conflict doesn't have to be a negative thing.

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It's often through those difficult conversations that we learn and grow the most.

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So if you're listening to this and you're feeling a little discouraged about your friendships, maybe you're experiencing some distance, some conflict, or maybe you're just feeling like you've outgrown some of your relationships. I want you to remember Mel's story.

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And the Friendship Reset gives us a roadmap for doing just that. It provides us with the tools and the strategies to navigate the ups and downs of friendships with grace, intentionality and a whole lot of heart.

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So if you're ready to embark on your own Friendship Reset journey, we're here to support you every step of the way. Head over to TheMessyPodcast.com to download our Friendship Reset Workbook and explore all the resources we've created to help you cultivate those deeper, more fulfilling connections in your life.

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S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for joining us on this messy and meaningful journey.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP5 | Creating Unshakeable Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Until next time, keep those friendships messy, keep them meaningful, and keep them evolving.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP4 | The Truth About Adult Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. You know, we're in the thick of season two now, and this season is all about relationships, comparisons, and growth. And you know what's super messy?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

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Friendship autopilot. That's a really interesting way to put it. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? What does that mean?

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That makes total sense. But then, you know, life gets in the way. You know what I mean? Routines change. Things get busy. And suddenly those connections kind of fade.

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Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And, you know, there was actually a 2022 Harvard study that found that 65 percent of adult friendships dissolved within seven years, primarily due to life transitions that actually due to conflict.

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Five percent.

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It is.

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Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. You lose those inside jokes, the easy understanding. And this is where this framework, it's called Let Them Power Move, comes in. It encourages us to accept this reality of friendship drift, you know, and then make these intentional choices about which friendships to release and which to rebuild.

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Adult friendships.

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No, not at all. It's really about recognizing that we can't control other people's actions or choices.

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I mean, haven't we all been there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So today we're going to do a deep dive on it. Episode four, we're calling it the truth about adult friendships, why they fade and how to reset.

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Like sometimes people drift, sometimes priority shift. That's OK. It's not about placing blame. It's about giving ourselves and our friends permission to evolve.

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That's where this idea of it's like a two part framework, this let them power move, let me choose. That's where it comes in. It's about recognizing, you know, we can't control other people, but we can control our own responses. Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. So we get to decide which friendships we want to nurture and which ones we need to release, even if it's painful.

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So it's less about being passive and more about being intentional with our energy. I'm starting to get it now.

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But what about those friendships that we do want to rebuild? Like, where do we even begin?

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Oh, totally.

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You know what? It's so true. I was actually reading a story about a listener who revived a college friendship after 10 years with just a simple voice note.

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And her friend responded and said, I thought you'd think I was weird for reaching out.

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And they were both just waiting for the other person to make the first move.

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Yeah. We overestimate the risk and underestimate the reward.

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And remember, it doesn't have to be a grand gesture. These small, consistent actions can make a big difference.

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Precisely. It's like retraining that friendship autopilot to operate on a new frequency. It's about showing up in those little ways that say, hey, I still value this connection. Okay, so we've talked about let them power move. We've talked about the importance of small, consistent actions.

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But for those of us who are ready to fully commit to rebuilding, do you have like a more structured approach, you know, like a step-by-step plan? I'm all about like tangible steps to get things moving.

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Okay, I love it.

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Okay, I'm ready. Hit me with it. Friendship reset, here we come.

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All right, we're back. Let's continue. Okay, so we've sorted. Our friendship's got our buckets all figured out. What's next?

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Okay, so one reach out per week. That's doable. Totally. Love it. What's the final step?

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Ooh, an unsent goodbye letter.

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Wow. Okay. What would I even write in a letter like that?

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That's so powerful. You know, it's like we're making space for new connections, new chapters to unfold.

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That's so good. And remember, even if a friendship has run its course, it doesn't diminish the value of the time you shared.

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All those memories, all those lessons learned, they're all still a part of you.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, we're back. Let's continue. And for those of you who want a little extra support on this messy, beautiful journey of adult friendships, be sure to visit us at TheMessyPodcast.com.

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Okay. Before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

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Cool.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP4 | The Truth About Adult Friendships | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So good. Thanks for joining us on this deep dive, everyone.

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. Well, I think that feeling that you're describing is so common and it often stems not from conflict, but from just the natural shifts of adulthood. So it's not just me being a bad friend. I mean, I'm partially relieved to hear that. But seriously, like, why does this happen? I mean, like, what's the deal?

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Hey everybody and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. And today we are going to deep dive into a topic. that I think we've all experienced at one time or another, that twinge of envy.

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. Constantly in our face with everyone else's highlight reel.

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So wait a minute. We actually get rewarded for comparing ourselves.

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Even when it makes us feel bad.

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That seems messed up.

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So it's about recognizing that their success doesn't take away from your worth or potential.

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Yeah.

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Let me. What does that mean?

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But the big question is, can we actually use envy as a guidepost for personal growth?

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I've heard of like a gratitude journal. This is new.

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So I might write down like I'm envious of their freedom and flexibility as a business owner.

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So instead of stewing in envy, I'm using it as a clue to uncover what I truly desire.

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Okay, this is fascinating. What's the next step?

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Episode three, comparison is your greatest teacher.

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So it's about transforming. I wish I had that. Into how can I create that for myself?

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I love that.

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You know, I think a lot of us get stuck in that comparison trap because we're afraid to admit what we really want. It feels safer to focus on what others have. Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off, even if it makes us miserable.

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Yeah. And the best part is it takes away the sting of comparison. You know, when you're focused on your own journey, you're less concerned with what everyone else is doing.

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This is brilliant. It's like you're giving us permission to feel those uncomfortable feelings of envy.

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But then empowering us to do something constructive with them.

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Yeah. You know, I was thinking about this just the other day. I was scrolling through Instagram, saw friends just picture perfect vacation photos. And I felt that pang of envy. Like, why doesn't my family look that happy on vacation? I know that a lot of our listeners out there. can relate to that.

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to get her workouts in.

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That's incredible.

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I struggled to even turn off my alarm at that hour.

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It's not about copying someone else's routine, but about using their experience as inspiration to design a plan that works for you.

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And that's the beauty of the let them power move. It's not about denying or suppressing envy. It's about acknowledging it. understanding it, and then using it as a catalyst for growth. And this can be applied to like any area of life. Let's say you're feeling envious of a colleague's recent promotion.

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Yeah, those are totally natural reactions. But instead of getting stuck in those thought loops, you can use the let them power move to shift your perspective. You start by saying, let them have their success. I'm genuinely happy for them.

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So I might write something like, I envy my colleagues' leadership role and the respect they receive from our team.

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That's so insightful. It's like using envy as a compass to point me in the right direction. And then I can take those insights and turn them into an action plan. I could talk to my manager about taking on more leadership roles, enroll in a professional development course, or seek out a mentor who can guide me.

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A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. Let's continue.

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Oh, this is a big one.

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Especially with everyone showcasing their picture perfect partnerships on social media.

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Right. It's so easy to forget that every relationship has its challenges, its ups and downs.

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OK, so I might take some time to reflect on what's truly important to me in a relationship and how I can bring more of those qualities into my own partnership.

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You know what I love about this approach is that it's not about trying to be someone else or have what they have. It's about using their experience as a catalyst to explore your own unique path and create a life that feels truly authentic and fulfilling.

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So instead of letting comparison lead to self-doubt and insecurity, we can use it as a springboard for growth, deeper connection, and ultimately a more fulfilling life.

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You know, I used to think that envy was just a negative emotion, something to be ashamed of. But now I'm starting to see it as a valuable tool, a compass pointing me towards my own unmet needs and aspirations.

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I think the first step is just acknowledging those feelings of envy, you know, when they come up. Instead of pushing them down or judging ourselves for having them, we can look at them with curiosity.

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I love journaling. I'm a big believer in it. But for those of you out there who haven't jumped on that bandwagon yet, it might feel kind of daunting. Do you have any tips for getting started with the comparison journal?

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We'll be right back after this quick break.

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All right. We're back. Let's continue. That's so important. You know, we try to suppress those uncomfortable feelings, but allowing ourselves to fully feel them is the first step to moving through them.

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Okay.

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And that's what the transformation begins, right? Yes. We're not wallowing in it anymore. We're actually using it as fuel to create that life that feels more aligned with our true selves.

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I love this entire framework. It's so empowering. It's like we're taking back control, you know, from those external comparisons.

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And saying, I am the architect of my own life.

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So you're saying our brains haven't quite caught up to the digital age yet.

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Amazing.

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That's so helpful. I know our listeners are going to love that. And while you're over on our website, check out the show notes for this episode. We've included links to all the books and resources that we talked about today.

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S2 EP3 | Comparison as Your Greatest Teacher | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So as we wrap up this episode, I want to leave our listeners with this. Comparison can be a really powerful teacher, but it's up to us to choose how we want to respond to those feelings. We can let envy consume us or we can use it as fuel to create a life that feels truly authentic and fulfilling.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP3 | Comparison as Your Greatest Teacher | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Because like in today's world, that ancient comparison mechanism can go a little haywire, especially with social media. Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP3 | Comparison as Your Greatest Teacher | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So the next time you find yourself in that comparison trap, grab your comparison journal, embrace the fuel, let them power move and start turning those feelings of envy into fuel for your own unique and extraordinary journey.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP3 | Comparison as Your Greatest Teacher | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And don't forget to visit us at themessypodcast.com. For all those awesome resources, show notes, and of course, to support our work. We love hearing from you, so be sure to leave a review and let us know what topics you'd like us to explore in future episodes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hey everybody and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. We are diving deep into Season 2.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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She used this let them plus let me approach and said to herself.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let them underpay me.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let me go out and find a job that values my skills.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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What happened? Did she actually leave her job?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Totally.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Wow. That's amazing.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Her closing line in her email was, let them underpay. Let me rise.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Actually, this whole topic really hit home for me after a weekend getaway I had with friends a while back.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I still get chills thinking about it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That is so inspiring.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It shows that we really do have the power to change our circumstances.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Even if it feels scary or uncertain at first.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So if we're looking for the biggest takeaway from this deep dive into fairness, what would it be?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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What do we want our listeners to really hold on to?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, that's good. Yeah. I like that.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Explain what you mean.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We'll be right back after this quick break.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We were splitting the costs equally, but I ended up in the smallest room sleeping on a squeaky old couch bed.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We will pay peanuts for it and we can make billions.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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All right. We're back. Let's continue. That is such a powerful way to look at it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's not about waiting for the world to become fair.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about taking responsibility for our own well-being.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And creating fairness in our own lives, one choice at a time.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I know.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that. It's a good one. And to our listeners, if you're feeling inspired to put this into action, we challenge you to choose just one unfair dynamic in your life, something that's been causing you resentment or frustration, and apply the Let Them Plus Let Me framework.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It was not good.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Write it down.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Say it out loud.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You might be surprised by the shift in perspective it creates. And remember, you don't have to do this alone.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Head over to TheMessyPodcast.com.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And I kept going back and forth in my head.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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For all sorts of bonus resources. We've got you covered. Including a guided meditation for releasing resentment. Ooh. A fairness audit worksheet to help you identify those areas. Yes. Where you might be... Tolerating Inequality.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And a list of all the incredible books we mentioned today.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I know. Yeah. Plus, while you're there, consider supporting our work so we can keep creating content to help you navigate life's messy moments.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Because let's face it, life is messy.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Like, am I being a pushover? Should I say something?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And sometimes it's downright unfair.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But with the right tools and the right mindset, we can create our own version of fairness.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's right. We get to choose how we show up in the world no matter what life throws our way.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for joining us on this messy but oh so important journey.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Until next time.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Keep it real.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Keep it messy.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And keep choosing yourself.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But in the end, I stayed silent.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is. And you know what? I was so resentful afterwards.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like that resentment becomes the price we pay for not honoring our own needs in the face of unfairness.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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No one.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And the funny thing is, when I told my partner about it later, his reaction was so simple.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But it was like a light bulb went off.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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All about relationships, comparisons, and growth. Yeah. And in this episode...

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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He just said, well, you didn't speak up.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And in that moment, I realized all that resentment was stemming from my own choice to stay silent. Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly. That's a profound realization.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It highlights how often resentment is a consequence of our own inaction.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Our own choice to stay silent when we should be advocating for ourselves. Totally. So if we're looking to tackle this feeling of unfairness head on, it seems like Understanding why it bothers us so much is a good place to start. I mean, it's not just about being sensitive.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, so tell me more.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, wow.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So our brains are throwing us back to the days of fighting for survival.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Episode two.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Even if the stakes are way lower now.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That makes sense.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It often feels like a gut punch reaction.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Signaling danger. Interesting. Even if the situation isn't actually life threatening.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yes.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's true.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh yeah.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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The hijack. The amygdala hijack.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Well, think of it this way.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Imagine you're driving and someone suddenly cuts you off.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That immediate surge of anger, fear, or even panic you might feel. Oh, yeah. That's your amygdala taking over, putting you in that fight, flight, or freeze mode.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Mm-hmm.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It can feel that intense.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Totally. And what's fascinating is that. What's that? A 2025 study. Okay. From Princeton University.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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actually found that feelings of inequity light up the same brain regions associated with physical pain. Wow, that is wild. It's wild. It explains why it can feel so visceral, so deeply unsettling.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But if our brains are essentially wired to react this way, does that mean we're just stuck feeling powerless?

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Faced with unfairness?

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, our thinking brain.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So we need to shift gears.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Get our thinking brain online.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Instead of just reacting from that primal place of fear and anger.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But how do we actually do that? I mean, knowing about brain regions is one thing. But how do we actually apply that in the heat of the moment?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It really does.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love it. Okay. The let them plus let me framework.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That sounds promising.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Tell me more.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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No.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. So it's about acknowledging the reality of the situation, even if it feels unfair. Accepting that.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It does. It's like this deep primal thing. Deep down. Totally.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yep. This stinks.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But I can't control how other people act.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And that acceptance is what creates space for the let me part of the equation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Which is all about reclaiming your power.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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By focusing on what you can control your own actions, your own choices.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I'm starting to see how this could be a game changer.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Instead of dwelling on the unfairness and getting stuck in that loop of resentment, we shift our focus to, okay, what can I do about this situation?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly. Precisely. And that let me action will look different depending on the situation. For example, let's say you're dealing with a coworker who constantly takes credit for your ideas.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, yeah. The worst.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We are.

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S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But then the empower.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, good one.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's not about stewing in resentment or plotting revenge.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about taking strategic steps to protect yourself and your work.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly. That's right. You're shifting from feeling helpless... Ugh, I hate that feeling. ...to taking ownership of your situation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Or... Let's say you have a friend.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Who consistently underpays their share.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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When you go out.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let them. Could be.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let them continue to underpay. But then let me becomes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let me suggest we split the bill proportionally next time.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Or let me choose to opt out of activities that put a strain on my budget.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about setting boundaries and advocating for yourself. Yes. Which can feel so tricky in friendships.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah. It can.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But this framework gives you a tangible way. It does. To approach those conversations.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right. Yeah. And it can be applied to family situations too.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let's say you have family members who never seem to appreciate your efforts.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let them. Could be let them continue to overlook my contributions.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But then let me becomes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let me set boundaries around how much time and energy I'm willing to give.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Or let me choose to spend my holidays with people who do make me feel appreciated.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

60.056

Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

602.976

This is so helpful.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's giving me a new way to look at those frustrating dynamics that could pop up in families.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You know, we actually had a listener write in with an amazing example of this in action.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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She was feeling incredibly resentful towards her sister.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Because they were sharing the responsibility of caring for their aging parents.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But the burden felt very unequal.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is. So hard. Such a common situation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And it can be incredibly challenging.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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To navigate those family dynamics.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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What did she do?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So she finally had a heart to heart with her sister.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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The big question.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And she used the let them plus let me approach.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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She said.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let you continue to contribute at your current level of involvement. But let me step back until we can figure out a more equitable division of responsibilities.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is powerful.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We got to figure this out. We'll be exploring a powerful framework.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Tell me.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Really?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I bet.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's so good to hear.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It can.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It really can.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about empowering yourself to create a situation that feels more aligned with your values and needs.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This is all making so much sense.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's really about taking that feeling of powerlessness and flipping the script.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But I'm wondering, How can we start to identify those areas in our lives?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Where we might be tolerating unfairness without even realizing it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I know, right? Let's do it. Called let them plus let me.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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An equity audit.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I like it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Tell me more.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's about bringing those subtle imbalances to the surface. Yeah. The things we might have gotten used to. Yeah. Or even normalized.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That are good for us.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Ooh, that's a tough one.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah. Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That can help us reclaim our power and move forward.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's the question.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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All right, we're back. Let's continue. Well, once you've pinpointed a few key areas, the next question to ask yourself is, what can I control in this situation? Remember, we're not trying to change other people. We're focusing on recognizing our own agency and identifying the areas where we do have power.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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If I'm feeling resentful that my partner never helps with the dishes, I can't magically make them into a dishwashing enthusiast overnight.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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No. You got it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But you can control how you respond to that situation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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One thing that's often overlooked is that... What's that? Everyone experiences feelings of unfairness at some point.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Maybe you decide to have an open and honest conversation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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About creating a more equitable division of household chores.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Or maybe you choose. to invest in a dishwasher to make the task less daunting for both of you.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about moving from complaining or blaming to brainstorming solutions.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It feels so much more empowering.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And to help you really put this into practice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We have another exercise for you.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

873.101

I know.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Called Resentment to Action.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This one is all about putting that let them plus let me framework into action. I love it. Resentment to Action. Yes. I'm intrigued.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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How does it work?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So, for example, I might write down, I'm resentful because my colleague keeps getting praised for work that I'm heavily involved in, but my contributions are being overlooked.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's a universal experience.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, so I'm acknowledging that I can't control my colleague's behavior.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Whether it's happening at work.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But just saying that out loud feels surprisingly liberating. It is. Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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In our friendships and families.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Wow. Just hearing you say that, I can feel that energy shift.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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From frustration to action.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's the magic of this framework.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It allows you to reclaim your agency and focus on what you can do.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Or even just observing events in the world around us.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And, you know, sometimes that action can be really bold.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I remember this one listener who's feeling incredibly undervalued and underpaid at her job. She tolerated it for years, but the resentment was eating away at her.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP2 | Life Isn’t Fair – And That’s Okay | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Finally, she'd had enough.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

0.049

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. It's season two.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about finding those moments of alignment in our everyday lives.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So as we wrap up this conversation, I want to encourage our listeners to reflect on their own journeys. What are those small everyday practices that bring you joy and connect you to your true self?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This has been such an inspiring conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insights with us today.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And remember, everyone, if you're looking for more resources and support on your journey of self-discovery, be sure to visit our website, themessypodcast.com.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And be sure to connect with us on social media. We love hearing your thoughts and stories.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Because sometimes the right decision feels like the wrong one until it sets you free.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And that's where the real magic happens. It sounds like Mel found a way to weave her personal growth into her baking. It's a beautiful reminder that our passions can be powerful catalysts for transformation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And it brings up such an interesting question. What is actually happening in our brains when we feel that tug of war between what we want and what everyone else expects? What's the science behind all of this?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And sometimes those passions lead us down unexpected paths, like from lawyer to artisan baker. It's a good reminder to stay open to possibilities, even if they seem unconventional.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So for those listening who might be feeling lost or uncertain about their own path, what advice would you give them?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I think that's such an important point. We live in a culture that often glorifies instant gratification and quick fixes, but personal growth is a journey that unfolds over time.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And remember, you don't have to do it alone. Reach out to trusted friends, family members, therapists or mentors. Surround yourself with people who believe in you and your journey.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Absolutely. And as you navigate this journey, remember to celebrate those small victories along the way. Yes. Acknowledge your progress, no matter how small it may seem. Every step you take towards your authentic self is worth celebrating.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, we're back. Let's continue. And as you continue on this path, remember to be kind to yourself. Self-compassion is essential, especially when faced with challenges or setbacks.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This has been such an empowering conversation. I feel like we've covered so much ground today, from understanding the neuroscience behind people-pleasing to exploring practical tools for reclaiming our agency.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And if you're looking for more resources and support, be sure to visit our website at themessypodcast.com. You'll find a wealth of information, exercises, and inspiration to guide you along the way. We've got a whole library of books on these topics, journaling, prompts, guided meditations, you name it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So until next time, keep listening to your intuition, honoring your authentic self, and choosing yourself, even when it feels wrong.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We'll see you next week for another deep dive into relationships, comparisons and growth. We'll see you next week. It's interesting, though, right, how she found that connection with sourdough.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right. Like nurturing the starter.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it wasn't just about quitting her job. It was about finding something that really lit her up.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So what about our listeners who are maybe feeling a little lost right now?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's so easy to get caught up in wanting those quick fixes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And you don't have to do it alone. Remember to reach out to people you trust.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And celebrate those small wins. Every step, no matter how tiny, is a step in the right direction.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And be kind to yourself, okay? That inner critic can be brutal.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This has been such an awesome conversation. I feel like I've learned so much.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And for anyone listening who wants to keep exploring these ideas, head over to our website, themessypodcast.com.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, I know that feeling.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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All the books we mentioned, journaling prompts, guided meditations, you name it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah. We love hearing from you guys.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Even when it feels wrong.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Until it sets you free.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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See you next week for another deep dive into relationships, comparisons, and growth.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like our brains are hardwired to avoid those uncomfortable feelings, even if it means staying stuck in a situation that's not good for us. Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I know, right? Time flies. This season we're calling Relationships, Comparisons, and Growth. I like it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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What's the prefrontal cortex again?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So you're saying that people pleasing can literally make it harder to think straight.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh my gosh, yes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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A million times yes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That is mind blowing. It's like we're conditioned to put everyone else first even if it means sacrificing our own well-being.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And today we're going to do a deep dive into why making the right decision can often feel like the absolute wrong thing to do. especially when it comes to those big choices like our jobs or our relationships. Have you ever had that feeling where you know you should make a change, but then you just freeze up because you're so worried about what everyone else will think?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I can relate to that feeling.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, that's awful. But it's like a cautionary tale about what can happen when we ignore those gut instincts.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, so how do we actually do that? Because honestly, the guilt and the fear of letting people down, it can be totally paralyzing.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, I'm intrigued. Tell me more.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This sounds so liberating, but also terrifying.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, that makes sense. So we let them have their feelings. Now what? What's the next step?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Let me go for it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, so instead of saying, I'm so sorry, but I have to, we could say something like.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that. It's like finally giving ourselves permission to put ourselves first.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Totally. Like we're supposed to be the peacekeepers.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, wow. That's amazing.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's so inspiring. It's like a reminder that it's never too late to change direction and create a life that truly aligns with our values.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, so how can our listeners start applying this let them power move framework in their own lives? What are some practical steps they can take?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Like becoming more aware of that inner compass, right?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But what if that inner voice is super quiet? How do we even recognize our intuition in the first place?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, so it's about paying attention to those subtle cues. But what if we're still struggling with overthinking? I know I have a tendency to analyze every decision to death.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Of course, who hasn't?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah, me too. So today we're going to talk about that, like the whole intuition versus people pleasing thing.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, I like that. It's like interrupting that overthinking loop before it can even start.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. Okay, that's brilliant. Are there any other tools that can help us navigate these tricky decisions? Like I'm thinking about those situations where we might be staying in a job or a relationship, not because it's good for us, but because we're afraid of what people will think.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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A rescue audit.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I think that's so important because it's easy to get caught up in the idea of being helpful or accommodating. But sometimes we're actually enabling unhealthy dynamics. We're just staying in situations that aren't serving us at all.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And all that self-doubt that creeps in.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And we're going to unpack the neuroscience behind all of that. It's actually pretty fascinating how our brains are wired to like avoid rocking the boat, even when that boat is like totally sinking. Okay. So to kick things off.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That makes me think of that saying, you can't pour from an empty cup. It's a good reminder that self-care isn't selfish, it's essential.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Wow, that's powerful.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So how do we start reclaiming that sense of self and start trusting that inner voice?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like anything else, right? It takes practice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's reassuring.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And as we embrace this whole process of self-discovery, how can we cultivate a more supportive internal dialogue? Because I think a lot of us struggle with that inner critic that tells us we're not good enough or brave enough or whatever it is.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's the worst.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's a great reminder. It's so easy to be hard on ourselves.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But when we can offer ourselves that same level of grace and understanding that we extend to others, it creates so much space for healing and growth.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I want to tell you a story about someone we're going to call Mel.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And that trust allows us to make decisions that are aligned with our true selves even when they feel scary or unconventional.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like we're giving ourselves permission to dream bigger.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So for our listeners who are just starting out on this journey of tuning into their intuition and honoring their authentic selves, what advice would you give them?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So Mel has what everyone considers this like dream job. She's a lawyer making bank, super stable. But on the inside, she's miserable.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And remember, it's okay to feel a little uncomfortable.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Growth often happens outside of our comfort zones.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And don't be afraid to reach out for support. Talk to a trusted friend, a therapist or a coach. Surrounding yourself with people who believe in you and your journey can make all the difference.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This has been such an insightful conversation. I feel so inspired to keep exploring these concepts and practicing these tools. What about you?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And speaking of diving deep, I'm curious to hear more about Mel's story. We left off with her quitting her law career, right?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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They release the guilt and the need for approval, but then they don't actually take action.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Which were?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Baking. Can you believe it? She went from high powered lawyer to artisan baker.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Well, at first they were totally bewildered. They couldn't understand why she'd walk away from such a prestigious career. They used all the classic lines. You're so talented, you're throwing away your potential. What about your student loans?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Like she just feels this constant pull towards something else, something more fulfilling.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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The whole nine yards.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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She did. She had this newfound clarity and determination.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's so inspiring to see someone step so firmly into their own truth, even when faced with resistance from loved ones.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's what I love about stories like Mel's. They remind us that it's never too late to change course and create a life that feels truly aligned.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Absolutely. So for our listeners who might be feeling stuck or uncertain, what advice would you give them?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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A quick break for our sponsor, and we'll be right back.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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All right, we're back. Let's continue.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Exactly. And guess what? Mel actually quits. She walks away from this so-called dream job.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And don't be afraid to ask for support. Talking to trusted friends, family members, therapists, or coaches can provide valuable guidance and encouragement.

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So embrace the messiness and celebrate the journey. And remember, the most unexpected paths often lead to the most extraordinary destinations.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I'm dying to know. Did she specialize in any particular type of pastry?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Sourdough?

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's so unexpected. I would guess something more elaborate like fancy pastries or cakes.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That makes so much sense. It's like that slow, deliberate process of nurturing the sourdough starter was a metaphor for her own personal growth.

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S2 EP1 | Why the Right Decision Feels Wrong | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it wasn't just about quitting her job and opening a bakery. It was about finding a craft that resonated with her soul and allowed her to express her creativity in a way that felt authentic.

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I think that's such an important point. It's easy to get caught up in the idea that we need to make these grand gestures or completely overhaul our lives in order to be happy. But sometimes it's the simple things like baking bread or taking a walk in nature that nourish our souls and remind us of who we truly are.

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Even though everyone around her is like, are you crazy? This is a huge mistake. Her family's worried. Her friends think she's nuts.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hey everybody and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. We are in the middle of Season 1, Foundations of the Let Them Theory, and today we're tackling something I know all of you out there have encountered.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But it also made me think, are some people just more prone to this than others?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Visualization. How does that work in this context?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, I'm picturing it now.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's like creating a mental movie of how we want to respond. Yes. Rather than reacting impulsively.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that. It's like we're creating an energetic force field of peace.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So by visualizing ourselves staying calm, we're actually training our nervous system to respond in that way.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's so cool. It's like we're rewiring our brains for resilience.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I've heard of tapping. It's like acupressure for emotions, right?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And this helps to calm the nervous system.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's like a shortcut to emotional regulation.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that. It's like we're giving ourselves an emotional tune-up.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's not just about reacting to other people's behavior. Right. It's about taking charge of our own inner state.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And that's a pretty awesome goal, wouldn't you say?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So we've talked about mindfulness, visualization and tapping as tools for regulating our nervous systems. What are some other things we can do to build emotional resilience?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Self-care, it's not just about bubble baths and face masks, right?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So what are some examples of self-care practices that can boost our emotional resilience?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah, I definitely turn into a grubby monster when I don't get enough sleep.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So ditch the sugar and processed foods. Right. And load up on fruits, veggies, and lean protein.

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Even just a brisk walk or a few yoga stretches can make a difference, right?

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I like that.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, yeah. Nature's like an instant reset button for the soul.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So get outside, soak up some sunshine and let Mother Nature work her magic.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, yes. Having a supportive network of friends and family is so crucial for our emotional well-being.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So make time for those coffee dates, phone calls, and game nights.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We'll be right back after this quick break.

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All right, we're back. Let's continue. Therapy can be such a valuable tool for unpacking emotional baggage, developing coping mechanisms, and building resilience.

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So going back to Mel's CEO, is it possible that some folks are just wired for more dramatic outbursts?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So if you're feeling overwhelmed or struggling to cope, please don't hesitate to reach out to a therapist or counselor.

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I love that. It's like we're creating a web of well-being that extends far beyond ourselves.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And that has a positive impact on our relationships, our communities and even the world at large.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You know, as we wrap up this part of our deep dive into let them theory, I'm struck by how much this goes beyond just managing difficult people. It's really about taking ownership of our own emotional well-being and creating a more peaceful and fulfilling life.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It really is empowering, isn't it, to realize that we're not just at the mercy of other people's moods and outbursts.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That it's not necessarily a reflection of the situation itself.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And it's not just about individual well-being either, right? There's a ripple effect when we start practicing let them theory.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You're modeling a whole new way of being, right?

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But more about their internal wiring.

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And that can be incredibly contagious, especially for kids who are still learning how to regulate their own emotions.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So when we model healthy emotional boundaries and communication skills, we're giving them a powerful blueprint for navigating their own relationships.

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It's like we're creating a ripple effect of positivity that extends far beyond our immediate circle.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, I'm intrigued. Tell me more about this energy thing.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Like we're adding fuel to the fire.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And that higher frequency attracts more peace, joy, and harmony into our lives and into the world around us.

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I love that. It's like we're becoming, you know, walking, talking beacons of peace just by choosing to respond differently.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Who knows, maybe we can even start to tip the scales towards a more peaceful and harmonious world just by making different choices in our own lives.

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It is. And it all starts with each of us making the conscious choice to let them be their messy selves while we shine our own unique light.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yes. Let's radiate peace, spread kindness, and inspire others to do the same.

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Well said. And that brings us to the end of our deep dive into Episode 7. When adults throw tantrums, remember, you don't have to attend every argument you're invited to. Choose peace, choose yourself, and choose to let them be.

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And for those of you who want to explore this further, head over to TheMessyPodcast.com. You'll find a treasure trove of resources there, including a complete list of all the books we've mentioned, bonus episodes, guided meditations, and so much more.

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And of course, we'd love to hear from you. Share your let them wins, your questions, your insights. We're all in this messy, beautiful journey together.

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And remember, your calm is your superpower.

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That's a great point. And it ties in perfectly with the let them theory. It's not about excusing bad behavior.

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But understanding that those outbursts often stem from internal struggles, not from a deliberate intention to harm.

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All right. Let's unpack that detach and redirect framework a bit more. We touched upon it in previous episodes, but it's the heart of dealing with adult tantrums.

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It's like acknowledging they have the right to their feelings, even if those feelings are, well, messy.

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But doesn't mean we have to get swept up in their mess.

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Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. So what are some concrete steps you can take in those moments? Imagine you're right there face to face with a full blown adult tantrum. What's your let me move?

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S1 EP7 | When Adults Throw Tantrums | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Adult tantrums.

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Right.

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It's almost like giving yourself a mini timeout from the chaos.

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Think screening coworkers, door slamming partners or the dreaded silent treatment. Oh. Buckle up for episode seven when adults throw tantrums managing emotional outbursts with grace.

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That makes a lot of sense. But what about when you can't physically remove yourself? Let's say you're stuck in a meeting with a tantruming CEO.

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Or you live with someone prone to these outbursts. What's your let me strategy then?

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Okay, I like that. It's something you could do discreetly anywhere, anytime.

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But once you've detached and calmed yourself down, how do you actually engage with the person who's having the tantrum?

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Are there any magic phrases you can use to diffuse the situation?

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Those are great. They acknowledge the other person's feelings without getting sucked into the drama or agreeing with their behavior.

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That makes a lot of sense. It's like saying, we can work this out, but not like this, not right now.

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All right, so we've got the detached part down. Now let's dig into the redirect piece of the puzzle. How do we actually steer these situations toward a more constructive path?

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Let's start with the workplace. Imagine you have a micromanaging boss who constantly panics over deadlines.

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How would you apply let them in that situation?

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Okay.

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So it's about setting clear boundaries and expectations while acknowledging their feelings.

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Now let's shift gears to relationships. Let's say your partner gives you the silent treatment after an argument. How do you navigate that with let them?

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So resisting the urge to force a conversation is actually part of the strategy.

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But what about the let me part? It can feel really lonely when someone shuts down like that.

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Okay, that makes sense. It's about taking care of yourself emotionally so you're better equipped to handle the situation when they're ready to talk.

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Now let's tackle a potentially trickier one. Family dynamics. Imagine a parent who constantly guilt trips you about your life choices. How do you handle that with let them?

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Right.

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Easier said than done, right? Especially when it's someone you love and whose opinion you value.

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Exactly. So before we dive into the how of handling these outbursts, let's go deeper into the why. This episode's source material, especially the work of Dr. Aditi Narurkar, points to this thing called amygdala hijack.

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So it's about communicating your limits and refusing to engage in a conversation that's disrespectful or unproductive. It's about choosing self-respect over the need to please or win their approval.

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I'm loving these practical examples, but I have to be honest, in the heat of the moment, it can be hard to remember all the nuances of detach and redirect. Is there a cheat sheet we can use to navigate those tricky tantrum moments?

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Tantrum triage. Yes. I like it. It sounds official and actionable. Yes. So what are the steps?

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Got it. Pause, breathe, observe. Don't let our own inner security chief take over. What's next?

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Okay, so it's about acknowledging the feeling, but not necessarily giving in to the demands that might come with it.

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So it's about steering the conversation toward a more constructive path, even if that conversation happens later when everyone's a bit calmer.

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All right, so we've got pause, acknowledge, redirect. Simple, actionable, and something we can all remember in those tense moments. But does this stuff actually work in the real world? I mean, it sounds great in theory, but I'm always skeptical of anything that claims to be a quick fix for complex human interactions.

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Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off.

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I do have to say I'm loving the testimonials we've been getting from listeners. It seems like a lot of people are finding real value in applying these principles to their own lives. For example, one listener shared, I used let them when my roommate blew up over dishes. Now I clean my own and let her stew. Peace restored.

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Can you break that down for us?

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Exactly. And this speaks to the empowering message at the heart of the let them theory. You don't have to attend every argument you're invited to. You get to choose.

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I love that. It's such a refreshing perspective. We don't have to get swept up in other people's emotional storms. We have the power to choose how we respond. And sometimes the most powerful response is to simply detach and redirect.

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Okay, we've covered a lot of ground in this first part of our deep dive. We've explored the science behind adult tantrums, unpacked the detach and redirect framework, and started to look at how to apply let them theory in specific scenarios. But before we move on to even more real world examples and strategies, I want to leave you with a key takeaway.

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That's such a powerful way to frame it. It reminds us that we have a choice in how we respond to those emotional hurricanes.

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Now, I know some listeners might be thinking, OK, all this let them stuff sounds great for like minor disagreements. But what about when you're dealing with truly toxic or abusive behavior?

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Right. It's not about staying in a situation that's harmful or dangerous.

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Absolutely. But even within those situations.

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I think let them theory can offer some valuable insights.

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Well, it can help us understand that even abusers are often driven by their own unmet needs and emotional wounds.

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It's not about excusing their behavior, but it can help us detach from their negativity and avoid getting sucked into their vortex of pain.

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Exactly. It helps us maintain our boundaries and avoid getting entangled in their drama.

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Right. It's about reclaiming our own power and focusing on our own healing and growth, even in the midst of a toxic situation.

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Well, I imagine it can lead to resentment, burnout, and even damage our relationships.

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So let them theory isn't just about navigating individual interactions.

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It's about creating a healthier emotional ecosystem for ourselves in the long run.

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OK, so we've talked about detaching and redirecting in specific scenarios like the workplace, relationships and family dynamics. But let's zoom out a bit and talk about how this applies to the broader social landscape. We're living in a time where outrage and divisions seem to be everywhere. It's like the whole world is having a collective tantrum.

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It's like everyone's amygdala is on high alert and rational discourse has gone out the window.

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OK, so it's like our brains are short circuiting. Yeah. Making rational thought nearly impossible. But here's something I found interesting in the source material. Mel's story about a CEO who actually punched a wall during a meeting.

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So instead of getting caught up in the outrage cycle and feeling like we have to engage in every argument, we can choose to detach and redirect.

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And that's where real change happens, right? Not through shouting matches and insults, but through empathy, listening, and a willingness to see things from multiple perspectives.

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I love that. It's about recognizing that we have a choice in how we respond to the chaos around us. We can either add fuel to the fire or choose to be a source of calm and reason.

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What do you mean by that?

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That's a subtle but powerful shift. It takes the focus off the other person, puts it back on ourselves.

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A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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All right. We're back. Let's continue. It's like we're reclaiming our own agency and saying, I'm not a victim of your emotions. I'm the captain of my own ship.

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Now, let's get practical for a moment. And we've talked a lot about the theory and the benefits. But what are some tangible tools and techniques that can help us put let them theory into action?

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I'm all ears. What else can we add to our let them arsenal?

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Oh, yeah. Meditation is such a powerful tool for cultivating inner peace and emotional resilience.

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It's like a textbook amygdala hijack.

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It's like hitting the reset button on our nervous system.

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It's like we're building a muscle of inner peace that we can tap into whenever we need it.

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Ever feel like you're constantly helping someone, but it leaves you just drained?

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At the same time.

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Wow.

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So it's not just emotionally draining. It's physically stressful, too.

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I never thought about it like that.

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Okay.

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Mirror neuron burnout.

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Oh, yeah.

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I see.

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Oh, no, thanks.

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Essentially, yes, we're wired for empathy, but there's a limit.

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Right. And when we hit that limit, we become less able to connect with other people's emotions.

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Even when they genuinely need our support.

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So what's the solution? How do we break free from this cycle of rescuing without becoming like heartless robots?

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Let them almost sounds like a hands-off approach.

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Doesn't that seem cold, especially when dealing with someone you love?

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So offering resources instead of rescuing.

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Like giving someone a job lead is better than just giving them money.

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Loving difficult people.

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That does seem counterintuitive.

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The whole helper's high being a trap, I'm realizing I've fallen into that myself. Have you ever experienced that?

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Really?

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The rescue audit.

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Yeah, they provide these really pointed questions like, am I trying to control the situation?

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Or am I afraid of what might happen if I don't step in?

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Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. Those are tough questions to answer, honestly.

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From the rescuing cycle. Okay, so once you recognize the unhealthy patterns, you can start setting those all-important boundaries.

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Speaking of boundaries, the episode provides some really practical scripts for those tough conversations. Like, I love you, but I can't solve this for you. Or, I'll listen for 15 minutes, then let's brainstorm solutions together.

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Right.

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Like you're pouring from an empty cup. Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. We're diving deep into Episode six.

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And sometimes just seeing those boundaries in action could be incredibly impactful.

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They talk about this listener who finally stopped paying her brother's rent.

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It was a tough decision. But guess what?

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Within two months, he found a job. It's a striking example of how stepping back can actually create the space for positive change.

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Exactly. This episode really hit me hard because It uses this story of Mel and Janine.

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And it highlights a core principle of the let them theory.

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Sometimes the most loving thing we can do is let go of control.

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Which brings us to the most surprising part. Janine's reaction wasn't at all what you'd expect.

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Or resentful. Right after all, Mel had been her safety net for so long.

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But in this behind the scenes clip, Janine actually thanks Mel.

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She says that when Mel started setting boundaries, it forced her to figure things out on her own.

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She had to sink or swim.

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But when that crutch was gone, she was forced to stand on her own two feet.

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It's that whole teach a man to fish idea, right?

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Instead of just handing out the fish, you're empowering someone to feed themselves.

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It's funny how sometimes the thing we think is helping is actually holding someone back.

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Mel is constantly rescuing Janine from one crisis after another.

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S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

405.689

And it's not easy to let go of that control.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

408.13

Especially when it comes to the people we love.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

410.531

We worry about them. We want to shield them from discomfort.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

413.812

But true love isn't about shielding people from discomfort.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

417.633

It's about believing in their ability to handle it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

427.476

That shift in mindset can be so powerful, both for the rescuer and the rescued.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

433.079

The rescuer gets to reclaim their time and energy.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

436.401

And the rescue gets to discover their own strength and resourcefulness.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

44.569

To the point where she even misses her own son's graduation to help Janine move.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

441.865

A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

50.494

Sound familiar to anyone out there?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

505.694

All right, we're back. Let's continue. It is a win-win, and the episode offers some really practical tools to help us make that shift. They talk about this two-step method called shift and support.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So step one is all about changing our language.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Instead of saying, I'll fix it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

521.667

We start asking, how can I support your next step?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

526.841

Right. It takes the focus off of rescuing and puts it on empowering the other person.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

53.775

So the episode dives into this concept called the dopamine trap.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

532.765

And step two is about offering resources, not rescues.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

537.068

So instead of giving someone money when they're struggling financially, you might help them create a budget or connect them with job training programs.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

551.055

Right. It's about providing tools and guidance rather than trying to solve the problem for them.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

557.863

This episode is packed with so much practical advice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

561.648

And it's really made me think about how I can apply these principles in my own life.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

566.914

Because let's face it, we all have those Janines in our lives.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

572.783

Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And by doing so, we might actually be giving them the greatest gift of all.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

585.845

The gift of self-discovery. Yeah, it's interesting how we often think we're being helpful, but we might actually be enabling those negative patterns.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

59.978

Can you tell me more about that?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

599.989

Oh, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

603.43

That's such a powerful statement. It really makes you question your motives.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

619.426

It's about trusting in their ability to navigate those choppy waters.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

631.27

Because smooth seas don't make skillful sailors, right?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

645.615

It's about shifting from that I need to protect you mindset.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

649.157

To a I believe in your ability to handle this approach.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

657.08

Like you're saying I'm not going to solve your problems for you.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

659.901

But I'm here to support you every step of the way.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

665.484

We'll be right back after this quick break. All right. We're back. Let's continue.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's not always easy, but it's ultimately the most loving and supportive approach we can take.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

686.147

And this episode has given us so much to think about. I'm excited to start putting these ideas into practice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

696.159

But I think the key is to remember that we are all works in progress.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

699.843

And that it's okay to ask for help and support when we need it.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

715.725

And don't forget to check out the Messy Podcast website.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

718.686

They have tons of great resources, including bonus content for this episode, links to all the books they've covered and ways to support their amazing work.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

73.763

That feel-good chemical.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

733.092

Until then, remember to be kind to yourselves, be kind to others, and keep those boundaries strong.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

744.066

Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

749.633

Thanks for joining us on this deep dive, and we'll see you next time.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

80.615

So you're saying I might be getting a helper's high.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

83.898

But it's actually messing with my brain chemistry.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

86.902

Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP6 | Loving Difficult People | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

92.844

Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. That's kind of scary.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

0.049

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. Our first season, Foundations of the Let Them Theory, has been a wild ride so far.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1015.878

This deep dive has been, wow, so insightful. And honestly, it's already shifting my perspective.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1022.443

I'm starting to see how holding onto the need for approval from others could be so draining. It's like I've been carrying around this invisible weight.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1031.909

And now I'm realizing I can put it down.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

104.553

Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1048.157

So to recap, the key takeaway here, you can't control what others think, but you can control how you respond to those thoughts.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1056.262

You can choose to let go of the need for approval and embrace that freedom that comes with owning your voice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1070.792

Right. Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1074.815

And in our next episode, we're going to be diving into another fascinating aspect of this theory, how to love difficult people without losing yourself.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's a topic that I think will resonate with a lot of our listeners.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1091.406

Yeah, we do.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1098.536

I can't wait to dive into that. But for now, if you're eager to learn more about the Let Them Theory and all the resources we've mentioned today, be sure to visit themessypodcast.com. You'll find show notes, bonus content, and links to all the books we've covered, including Let Them Theory, Owning Your Voice and Releasing Judgment.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. So the creator, Mel, she was facing this mountain of debt, $800,000. Wow. To be exact. And she needed to promote her business.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yes, spreading the word is the best way to support our work. And as always, we appreciate you joining us on this journey of embracing the messy, the real, and the beautiful imperfect.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But guess what?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

125.648

Frozen by the fear of judgment.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

133.165

The draft-delete spiral? I like that. What's that?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

142.65

Oh, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So relatable. I think we've all been in that spiral.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

149.974

And the source material points out something really interesting.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Even our loved ones, even our loved ones judge us.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's just part of being human. It's not always malicious.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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But it's happening all the time.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So if judgment is inevitable, even from people closest to us, how do we break free?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's where let them think bad thoughts about you comes in. It's so good. This concept.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

18.806

And today we're diving deep, deep into episode five.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

188.38

Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's a powerful distinction. So it's not about ignoring criticism altogether, but more about recognizing that we have a choice in how we respond.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I like that.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

209.567

Let them let me.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

217.292

Okay, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

22.91

Let them think bad thoughts about you.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

223.636

It seems like a way to kind of disentangle yourself from that web of external validation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

229.378

And tap into something more internal.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

232.138

A confidence that comes from within.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

234.499

But how do we actually how do we bridge that gap between the mental shift and the action?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

240.701

Because the source material mentions this blurt and post challenge.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

245.502

Sounds terrifying.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

246.982

But also incredibly liberating.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

250.458

Tell me more about that.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

26.673

I am so excited to unpack this with you.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

264.81

So it's about silencing those inner critics. Yes. Letting your authentic self shine through.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It reminds me of something I read recently about the power of vulnerability.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You know, by allowing ourselves to be seen imperfections and all.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We create a space for genuine connection and ultimately greater creativity.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, tell me.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Wow.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

30.274

Because let's be honest, we've all been there.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

301.687

Oh, no.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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What happened? Did she let the fear win?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Good for her.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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They did.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

325.26

That's amazing.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

339.044

It's about recognizing that the only way to truly silence those self-doubts is to take action, even if it feels scary at first.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

34.015

You know, that moment when you're about to share something online.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

347.666

And the source material offers a practical exercise to help us put this into practice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

353.529

Right. Something about an opinion detox.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So tell me tell me more about that. What is that?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

364.435

OK.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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A piece of writing, a photo.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

372.499

OK, walk me through this. How does this work?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

385.925

Oh, yeah, that's a big one for me. I always worry that people will think it's not good enough or that I'm just not a good writer.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

399.256

Let them think my writing is bad.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

40.537

Even just a comment and then bam, the fear hits.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

401.778

Let me share it anyway. Wow, that feels it feels liberating.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

407.922

Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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What will people think?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

45.859

Will they judge me? The worst. It can be paralyzing.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

472.128

Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

480.669

OK, I've got one public speaking. I absolutely dread it. My biggest fear, people will think I'm boring. They'll start checking their phones or even worse, walk out in the middle of my presentation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

500.886

Right. Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

507.731

Okay. Okay. Let them think I'm boring. Let me deliver the presentation anyway.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

513.234

It's a little scary saying it out loud. Yeah. But I can already feel a shift.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

520.919

Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

526.042

Oh, that'd be nice.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

528.503

Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

530.705

Okay. All right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

533.246

Okay. This one's a bit silly, but I always, I always overthink my social media posts.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

538.849

I'm terrified of like appearing like I'm trying too hard to be cool or funny. It's this constant battle.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

546.333

Wanting to share my life, then worrying what people think.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

556.381

Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

559.062

Oh, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

563.524

Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

568.126

Let them think I'm a tryhard. Let me post that picture anyway. Saying these things out loud really does help.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

574.51

Great. I'm taking back control.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that analogy. It's like clearing out the clutter.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

599.704

To create a more peaceful and inviting space. That's it. But what about situations beyond social media, like in the workplace? How can this let the mindset help us navigate those tricky situations?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about trusting my own intuition and allowing my voice to be heard.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Even if it means risking rejection or criticism.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I can see how this could lead to more opportunities for growth and innovation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's about developing a filter.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Learning to identify the feedback that's genuinely valuable.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And letting go of the rest.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Uh-huh.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Like developing a radar for authenticity. Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

697.396

Yeah, it can.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

70.057

Oh, I see.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

708.899

Right. My approach. That's such a great point. Separating the message from the messenger.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Even if the delivery is less than ideal, there might be a nugget of wisdom hidden there.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Reminds me of that saying, kill your darlings. Sometimes we have to let go of ideas or approaches that aren't serving us.

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S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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A quick break for our sponsor, and we'll be right back.

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S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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How so?

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All right, we're back. Let's continue.

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S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, how?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Wow. That really hits home. It does, right? It is.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's about choosing courage over comfort.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Action over inaction. Yes. Authenticity over approval.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's about owning our voices, even if they tremble a little at first.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's almost like our brains haven't quite caught up with the times, right?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

791.263

Yeah, that's exciting.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Absolutely. It's about identifying one thing, one thing you've been putting off because of fear. Yes. And challenging yourself to embrace that. Let the mindset.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And take action this week.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah. You know, it's like learning a new language. It's awkward and unfamiliar at first. Yes. But with practice, it gets more natural.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Because we're living in this hyper-connected world, opinions flying everywhere.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah. Right. Instead of beating yourself up, view them as opportunities.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right. What can I learn from this experience? How can I adjust moving forward?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Uh-huh.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like creating a space where your own inner voice can drown out the noise.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Of those external critics.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's so encouraging.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's overwhelming.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's why the Let Them Theory really caught my eye.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It is. It is. Yeah. It's about learning to filter our mental inboxes.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Recognizing the senders who consistently offer value.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And those whose messages are more spam than substance.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's recognizing that sometimes letting go is the best way to make space for something even better.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It seems to offer this path to navigate this pressure to please everyone.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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To emerge.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And as you embark on this journey of owning your voice and releasing the fear of judgment, be patient with yourself, celebrate your wins, learn from the setback, trust that you have everything you need to create a life that is meaningful and fulfilling.

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We'll be right back after this quick break. All right. We're back. Let's continue.

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S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And what's really interesting is that this whole theory, it was born from a very personal struggle.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Yeah.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP5 | Let Them Think Bad Thoughts About You | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Oh, that's a good one. That's such a powerful question. It really gets to the heart of this whole philosophy. You know, this idea that fear, especially the fear of judgment, it can really hold us back from living a truly authentic and fulfilling life.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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hey everybody and welcome back to the messy podcast if you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff you can sign up to be a premium member on apple podcasts or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com we're in the thick of season one foundations of the let them theory and today's deep dive is all about the neuroscience of stress it's episode four and we're going to explore why our brains might be working against us when it comes to handling those everyday pressures

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S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This is all making so much sense, but I know some of our listeners might be thinking, this all sounds great in theory, but does it actually work in real life?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Do you have any examples you could share?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That sounds incredibly stressful. It's amazing how much damage a toxic work environment can do to our self-esteem.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So she basically decided to let them have their toxicity while she focused on creating a better future for herself.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That is so inspiring. It shows that even in the most challenging situations, we have the power to choose how we respond.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's all about shifting from a mindset of scarcity and fear to a mindset of abundance and possibility. That's a pretty exciting prospect.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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And remember, it's a practice. It might feel a little awkward at first, but the more you use it, the more natural it will become.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Hold on. So it's like our thinking brain gets taken hostage by our panic brain. No wonder we make impulsive decisions or say things we regret when we're stressed.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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This has been such an insightful conversation. I'm already feeling more empowered to manage my own stress levels.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We've covered a lot of ground today, but we're not done yet. There's so much more to explore when it comes to the let them theory. And I want to remind everyone that we have some amazing bonus content waiting for you over at themessypodcast.com.

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S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right. It's this incredible concept called neuroplasticity, which basically means that our brains can change and adapt throughout our lives.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Absolutely. It's never too late to start creating new neural pathways to build resilience and create a more peaceful inner world. And the Let Them Theory gives us the tools to do just that. I love that. It's so empowering to know that we have more control over our stress response than we might think. And it's not just about feeling better. It's about performing better, too.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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When we're constantly stressed, our cognitive function takes a hit.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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It's like giving our brains a much needed vacation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Whether it's excelling at work, nurturing your relationships, or simply having the energy to pursue your passions, managing stress is the key to unlocking a more fulfilling and meaningful life.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Like that five-minute brain reset we talked about. So easy. So effective.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1258.601

We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, we're back. Let's continue.

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S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That's right. We have a whole community of listeners who are on this journey with you. And we've got some amazing bonus resources to support you over at TheMessyPodcast.com.

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S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1281.107

And if you're loving the show, please leave us a review and tell your friends.

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So until next time, keep practicing those brain resets. Remember to let them stress, let you thrive.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1298.358

We'll be back next week with another deep dive into the let them theory. But in the meantime, remember, you have the power to choose how you respond to stress. It's not easy, but it's so worth it. And don't forget to visit TheMessyPodcast.com to support our work and find a list of all the awesome books we've covered on the show.

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S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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We'll catch you next time on the Messy Podcast.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You know what's really fascinating to me? It's how much our understanding of the brain has evolved over the years. We used to think that our brains were pretty much fixed at a certain age. But now we know that's not true at all.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So even if we've been stuck in this chronic stress cycle for years, we're not doomed. We can actually rewire our brains to respond to stress differently.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I love that. It's so empowering to know that we have more control over our stress response than we might think. And it's not just about feeling better. It's about performing better, too. When we're constantly stressed, our cognitive function takes a hit.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

137.436

So we're not just feeling addressed. Our brains are literally going haywire.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1386.523

It's like giving our brains a much needed vacation.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1397.54

Whether it's excelling at work, nurturing your relationships, or simply having the energy to pursue your passions, managing stress is the key to unlocking a more fulfilling and meaningful life.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1420.325

Like that five-minute brain reset we talked about. So easy, so effective.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1431.601

That's right. We have a whole community of listeners who are on this journey with you. And we've got some amazing bonus resources to support you over at TheMessyPodcast.com.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1447.328

And if you're loving the show, please leave us a review and tell your friends.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1457.267

So until next time, keep practicing those brain resets. Remember to let them stress, let you thrive.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1465.433

We'll be back next week with another deep dive into the let them theory. But in the meantime, remember you have a power to choose how you respond to stress. It's not easy, but it's so worth it. And don't forget to visit themessypodcast.com to support our work and find a list of all the awesome books we've covered on the show.

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S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

1487.267

We'll catch you next time on The Messy Podcast.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

153.078

I love that analogy. OK, to illustrate this, I want to share a story about my friend Mel. Let's just say she had a bit of an over-the-top reaction to someone coughing on a plane. It involved a lot of hand sanitizer and some very intense stares.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Picture this packed plane. Everyone's crammed in and this person starts coughing, not even a hacking cough, just a little throat clearing. But for Mel, it was like a biohazard alarm went off in her head. She immediately went into full on germ warfare mode.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Right. It was like a switch flipped in her brain. And afterwards, when we talked about it, she admitted that her reaction was completely over the top. She even joked that her amygdala had staged a coup d'etat.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. So it's not about eliminating stress altogether, because let's face it, that's impossible, but about becoming more resilient and adaptable to those everyday stressors.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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You know that feeling of being constantly on edge, like you're just surviving, not thriving.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Speaking of ups and downs, I think it's fair to say that modern life is a bit of a stress factory, right? It's like we're constantly bombarded with information and demands.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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7 out of 10. It's no wonder we're all feeling a bit frazzled.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's like our bodies are constantly in fight or flight mode.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, this is starting to paint a pretty grim picture. So if our brains are wired to stress out and modern life is a constant trigger, is there even anything we can do about it?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, I'm all ears. What is the let them theory?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So instead of getting all worked up about a delayed flight or a frustrating coworker, I just let it be.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, so let's paint a picture for our listeners. Imagine you're at the airport. Flights are delayed. Babies are crying. The security line looks like it stretches to the next time zone. You feel that familiar knot of tension in your chest. Your heart's racing. You might even snap at the person trying to cut you in line.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's like telling that panicked monkey to take a chill pill.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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I'm intrigued. Tell me more about this let me step.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Wait, just breathing? How can that possibly help?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, what's the vagus nerve? And why should I care about it?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's like hitting the brakes on our stress response.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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OK, this is starting to sound pretty practical. But how do we actually apply the let them and let me steps in real life situations?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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So it's about giving yourself permission to step back and take care of your own well-being, even in the midst of chaos.

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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That makes a lot of sense. But sometimes it feels like stress just sneaks up on us. Is there a way to use the let them theory, even when we're already feeling overwhelmed?

The Let Them Theory | The Messy Podcast

S1 EP4 | The Neuroscience of Stress | The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins

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Okay, I'm all for quick and easy solutions. Walk me through it.

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So we're basically calling out the stress monster.

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Simple but powerful. All right. What's the final step?

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So if I'm stuck in traffic and started to feel road rage bubbling up, I could say, let them tailgate. Let me put on my favorite playlist and enjoy the scenery.

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Okay, I'm starting to see how this works. It's about shifting our focus from what's stressing us out to what we can do to feel more grounded and in control. So we're not just passively accepting stress. We're actively choosing how to respond to it.

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Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off. This is making me think about a listener who shared an incredible story about using the let them theory to navigate a really tough situation at work. She was dealing with the classic micromanaging boss, you know, the type always hovering, second guessing every decision.

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Right. Well, this listener had tried everything to manage the situation, talking to HR, setting boundaries, even trying to reason with the boss. But nothing seemed to work. She was burnt out and starting to doubt her own abilities.

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Absolutely. But then she discovered the let them theory and had a major aha moment. She realized she couldn't change her boss, but she could change how she reacted to the situation. So she started using the let them let me scripts.

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It was pretty amazing. When her boss would start micromanaging, she would say to herself, let them freak out. Let me focus on getting my work done and documenting my wins.

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Exactly. And what's even more incredible is that she started using her newfound sense of empowerment to look for a new job. She basically said, let them have their toxic environment. Let me find a place where I can thrive.

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Absolutely. And within six weeks, she landed a new role at a company with a supportive culture and a boss who actually valued her contributions. She went from feeling trapped and defeated to feeling empowered and excited about her future.

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Right. And the beauty of the Let Them Theory is that it's not about becoming some stress-free Zen master. It's about equipping yourself with the tools to navigate the inevitable chaos of life with more grace and resilience.

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Absolutely. And I think it's time to give our listeners a chance to put these tools into practice.

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So it's like our brain's ancient watchdog, always on the lookout for danger.

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So how about we walk everyone through the five-minute brain reset, step by step?

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Perfect. It's like a portable stress-boosting toolkit. So let's break it down for our listener. What's the first step?

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Okay, so we're basically giving that stress our label, but we're also putting a little distance between us and it.

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Love it. That already feels empowering. Okay, what's next?

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It's amazing how such a simple breathing exercise can have such a profound effect on our nervous system.

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So we've acknowledged the stress. We've calmed our nervous system. What's the final step in our five-minute brain reset?

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I love this part. It's about moving from feeling powerless to feeling empowered.

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It's all about shifting our focus from what's stressing us out to what we can do to feel more grounded and confident. So it's not just about managing stress. It's about reclaiming our power.

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Now let's get even more specific. We've talked about the theory, but how does this actually play out in the real world? Think about all those common scenarios that tend to send our stress levels soaring. For example, what about dealing with a micromanaging boss?

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Let's do it. I think a lot of our listeners can relate to this one. So imagine you're working on a project. and your boss is constantly hovering, second-guessing every decision you make. How can we apply the five-minute brain reset in this scenario?

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That makes so much sense. It's like our brains are stuck in overdrive, even when there's no real danger.

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Got it. We're not engaging with their anxiety, just observing it. What's next?

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Inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four, repeat. Easy enough. And finally, the magic question. Let me to regain control. What might that look like in this situation?

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Ooh, I like that. It's about taking control of the situation by addressing their concerns while also setting clear boundaries.

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It's like speaking their language. A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. Let's continue. And by taking this proactive approach, you're not only managing your own stress, but also potentially improving the dynamic with your boss.

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So it's not about avoiding stress altogether. It's about shifting our mindset and developing tools to navigate those stressful situations with more grace and ease.

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Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Messy Podcast. If you want to skip the ads and get right into the good stuff, you can sign up to be a premium member on Apple Podcasts. Or you can also head over to our website at themessypodcast.com. We're in the middle of season one, Foundations of the Let Them Theory.

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So it's more about recognizing what you can and cannot control and just focusing your energy on what you can. I can see how that would be helpful in stressful situations.

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Oh, so that feeling of losing sleep over a co-worker's snarky email? That's my amygdala calling the shots.

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So instead of reacting impulsively, we can pause and think things through more clearly.

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And today we're tackling episode two, the Let Them Theory, what it is and why it matters. Are you ready to dive in?

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Okay, so back to Mel's story. Her daughter encourages her to share this let them philosophy on TikTok. I mean, putting yourself out there can be intimidating, right?

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The video goes viral, racking up over 60 million views in a week. It's incredible how a simple idea shared authentically can resonate with so many people.

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And it wasn't just a fleeting viral moment. This single TikTok sparked a movement. We saw like hashtag LetThem tattoos, corporate workshops, even features in The New York Times. It really struck a nerve.

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So it's not just a feel good philosophy. There's actual substance behind it.

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All right, I'm ready to hear about this framework. Give me the steps.

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So it's about recognizing that you can't control everything, but you can control how you respond.

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Hang tight. We'll be back right after this short break.

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Thanks for waiting. Let's pick up where we left off.

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So it's about taking back your power not in a controlling way but in a way that prioritizes your own peace and well-being.

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Okay, before we get too deep into that, let's pause for a moment to hear from our sponsor.

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I'm all ears. Let's get practical.

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Oh, been there. So how does let them apply here?

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It's about taking back your power, not by controlling others, but by controlling your own responses and actions. I like that.

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Right. With let them, you acknowledge their right to feel how they feel. You let them vent, complain, whatever it is. But then let me protect my own energy. You might set boundaries, redirect the conversation, or just limit your exposure to their negativity.

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Precisely. And by releasing that burden, you free yourself to focus on what you can influence.

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Yeah, it's a common misconception. People worry that let them means becoming a doormat, letting people walk all over them. But it's quite the opposite. You're choosing where you direct your energy, your compassion, your efforts. It's a deliberate act, not a passive one.

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So it's not about becoming an emotionless robot. It's about being mindful of your emotions and choosing how you react.

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So let them actually enhances emotional intelligence. It's not about ignoring emotions. It's about managing them more effectively.

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Could you give me an example of that? Because at first glance, it does seem like letting them struggle could be interpreted as uncaring.

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It's like the oxygen mask on a plane. You have to put yours on first before you can help others. A quick break for our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. Let's continue. It's not selfish. It's practical.

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So how do we know when to let them and when to step in and try to make a difference? Because in some situations, taking action is definitely the right thing to do.

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So in a nutshell, it's about choosing your battles wisely.

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OK, I'm starting to see how this could be applied to so many areas of life. But how do we actually integrate this into our daily lives? It's one thing to understand the concept, but it's another to put it into practice.

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So we've talked about the framework and how to identify those situations where let them is helpful. But what about the bigger picture? How does this philosophy impact our lives like in a more holistic way?

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Okay, let's break those down one by one. Let's start with relationships. How does let them influence how we interact with others?

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It creates this dynamic of inequality, right? Where one person feels superior and the other feels stifled.

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It's about shifting from trying to change people to understanding and appreciating them for who they are. That sounds a lot healthier.

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Thanks for listening to that. Let's jump back into it. Okay, so to set the scene, we've got Mel, a mom sort of navigating the chaos of her son's prom night. Think like last minute tux fittings and downpour threatening perfectly planned photos. And a teenager Oakley who's less than thrilled with the whole ordeal.

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It makes sense. You're taking the pressure off yourself and the other person to be something they're not.

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So let them isn't about giving up on people. It's actually a way to strengthen relationships by fostering more authenticity and acceptance.

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All right, let's shift gears and talk about careers. How does let them play out in the often stressful world of work?

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And that usually backfires, right? Leading to burnout anxiety, that feeling of never being good enough.

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So it's about shifting your focus from external factors to internal ones. We'll be right back after this quick break.

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All right, we're back. Let's continue. From things you can't control to things you can.

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That sounds like a much healthier and more enjoyable way to approach work.

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OK, last but not least, let's talk about physical well-being. What's the connection between let them and our health?

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So basically stress makes us sick.

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So let them is a form of self-care. That's an interesting way to look at it.

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But in the middle of all this stress, Mel's daughter, Kendall, just drops this wisdom bomb. She's like, Mom, let them get soaked. It's their prom.

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It seems like our mental, emotional, and physical health are all intertwined. And LetThem is a tool for creating more balance and harmony in all those areas.

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This has been such an insightful conversation. I feel like I have a much deeper understanding of let them now. It's more than just a catchy phrase. It's a profound philosophy with practical applications that we can all benefit from.

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Yes, and if you're ready to dive deeper into Let Them, be sure to check out all the amazing books we referenced on this episode. You can find a complete list along with ways to support our work at TheMessyPodcast.com.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel. And I woke up today and you were on my mind and I'm like, I have something that I want to say to you. Because today is the first day of the new year and I want you to really listen to what I'm about to tell you. Because I know something about you. I know that you're someone who really wants to make this the best year ever.

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This year is going to be different because like me, you're going to use the let them theory this year. And if you don't know what that is, I'm going to talk a lot about it this year because the Let Them Theory is a simple mindset tool that immediately shows you what's in your control and what's not in your control.

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And any psychologist will tell you, when you spend time and energy on things that are not in your control, it just stresses you out. We're not doing that this year. We're taking our power back. How do you do that? You're going to learn to let them.

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Anytime somebody is making you upset or stressing you out or worrying you or hurting you or draining your energy or not making you happy or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you're just going to say, let them. When you say let them, you're recognizing if you can't control it and you can't change another person, why on earth would you spend any of your time and energy trying to?

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So when you say let them, you not only give up control, you gain it. You get your time and energy back. And this is time and energy that you need this year. so you can focus on living your life in a way that makes you proud, let me remind myself that my life is my responsibility. And let's look at that word responsibility. Responsibility is just the ability to respond.

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And when you start to respond to the world around you in a way that makes you proud, when you start to respond to situations in a more peaceful and confident manner, when you start to respond to the daily stressors by not allowing it to stress you out, You know what you have? You have power because I can choose what I think, what I do or don't do, and what I say and feel in response to this.

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When you focus on what you can control, you're not going to recognize yourself because you're going to start to value the time and energy that you need to change your life. And let's just talk about your time and energy. They're the two most important resources that you have this year. Because what you pour your time into and where you put your energy, that determines your experience of life.

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And you're someone who not only has amazing dreams and goals and a vision for your life, which I think is so cool, but you're also willing to do the hard things that it's going to take to get there. You're willing to do the boring things, the annoying things, and that's what it's going to take.

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Let's focus on what's in our control and let me. Let's value our time and energy by focusing on the thoughts and the actions and the feelings that make you feel like your best you. And every time you say, let me, and you remind yourself, I get to choose what I think about this, I'm going to invite you. Choose kind thoughts. Choose to be compassionate.

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Choose to assume good intent instead of judging. Why? Well, because it means you're powerful. It means you're compassionate. It means you're wise and in control. And when you say, let me, And you choose what you're going to do and you're not going to do in response to what's happening around you this year. I want to remind you, you always have power. You're never stuck.

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You're not stuck in a job or an interview or a date or a dining room table or a conversation or a text chain. You can leave anytime you want. Let me do it. Let me decide what is worth my time, what is worth my energy.

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Let me stop making excuses for other people's behavior and let them, let their behavior reveal who somebody is because then I get to choose how much time and energy I'm going to pour in to this relationship. That's where your power is. And that's why I'm so excited for you. This is truly going to be your year because you do have power. And all you need to do to recognize it is stop giving it away.

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Stop giving it away to what people think, what they do, what they say, their dramas, their moods, their this, their that. We're done with that. This is where you get to say, let them because I'm focusing on me. And when you do that, holy cow. Let's say hello to peace. Let's say hello to power. Let's say hello to deeper connection.

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All of that is going to come back to you because you're recognizing that you are actually in control. I'm so excited for you. Oh my God. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. This is your year. Go claim it. And I admire you as well. I admire you for the fact that you make time You actually make time. I know how busy you are.

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You find time and you make time to listen to this and to watch this because you deserve better in your life. You see a bigger possibility and you invest your time in listening to something that can help you achieve that. I think that is so cool. I admire that about you, which is why I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to make this your best year yet. And

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And that's why I know you're capable of bringing this vision for your life and bringing your dreams and your goals into the real world and making it a reality. And so I wanted to start this year off today by personally reminding you, you have power. In fact, you have so much more power than you realize. I didn't realize this until I was 54 years old. And that's why I want to remind you of this.

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please know that your friend Mel, I'm going to be with you every step of the way. You're going to hear me over here going, let them and let me, let them and let me. And we're going to be doing that all year long and making this the best year ever. Alrighty. I can't wait to see how this turns out. And I'm also going to be waiting for you as soon as you hit play in the very next episode.

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I'll see you soon.

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It took me too long to figure this out. And now that I've figured out that I have power and that you have power and how to tap into that power, there's no way I'm going back.

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And so I'm going to start this year by reminding you that your year is going to be amazing, not because of what other people are doing, definitely not because of what's happening in the world around you, but your year is going to be amazing because you understand. that your power is always in how you respond to what's happening. It's how you respond to what other people are doing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

7 Minutes To Start 2025 Right

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See, for far too long, you're probably like me. You're tired and overwhelmed and you feel powerless. The problem isn't you. The problem is you've been unknowingly giving your power to other people, to what they think, to what they do, to what they say, to their moods. It's exhausting, isn't it? That's why you have no time and energy. This year is going to be different.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Caring What People Think of You

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Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today, you and I are going to talk about one of the biggest obstacles that's holding you back. What is the obstacle? Oh, it's worrying about what other people think and then how hard you are on yourself because of it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Somebody saying something negative about you doesn't mean you have to feel negatively about yourself. And I knew that intellectually, but I never knew how to separate myself from other people's moods and other people's opinions of me. And the let them theory has been life altering in this regard. And this is what I was trying to explain to Chrissy.

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She's literally describing how you probably go through your day too, where you're concerned about what people at work think about you. You're concerned about what your sorority sisters think about you. You're concerned about what your family thinks about you. What if we were to invert this? What if you were more concerned about what you think about you?

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And instead of exhausting yourself over something you'll never be able to manage, you pull the power back. This is what I was trying to explain to her.

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Can you actually control what my thoughts and feelings about you are going to be? No. She said the correct answer. No. Just like I can't control what you're going to think about me as you're listening to this podcast episode. Please take a moment and share this with everybody that you care about because everybody needs to learn how to let people have negative thoughts and take their power back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, there's so much more that we need to unpack and I want to stay on this topic, but let's take a quick pause so we can hear from our amazing sponsors of the Mel Robbins Podcast. And don't go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you after this short break.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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that stands in the way of you and your ability to achieve absolutely everything that you want in your life. And what is that obstacle? That obstacle is your fear of what other people think about you. We all have it. We worry about it. We care about what other people think. We try to manage what other people think.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Welcome back, it's your friend Mel Robbins. I am so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you're learning how to let people have negative thoughts. And again, I'm so grateful that Chrissy Teigen is allowing me to play some moments from her new podcast, Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen. As we're unpacking this, and it's really starting to sink in,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, I have to applaud Chrissy because she shared something very personal in this next segment. And I wanted to share it with you because I think it's really important to stop and consider that how you move through life is an example to other people. And using the let them theory, you can truly take the power back and decide who you want to be. That's the let me part.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Let me decide what I want to think about myself. Let me align my actions with the kind of person I want to be. Let me allow my emotions to rise and fall instead of navigating my life based on what I think everybody else expects of me or is going to be disappointed.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that brings me to this part of Chrissy's new podcast and the conversation that we had that I wanted to share with you because she shared this fear that she had that is extremely personal And I think it's an important part of this conversation. Check this out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You probably don't even realize how much of a default it is for you to stop and consider what somebody might think before you post something on social media, before you say something at work, before you make the move that you've been afraid to make, before you start the conversation. You always stop and you consider what somebody else is going to think or do in response to it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Who is going to teach them this? And that's the enormous opportunity that you have. When you understand what you're dealing with, you have the ability to face it, And to make decisions to live differently. And that's exactly what you're doing. And your kids watch you. And they are watching how much strangers and other people impact how you feel about yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so as you take this on and you truly start to separate what is your responsibility to manage, which is your thoughts,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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your feelings, your words, when you focus on that and you align your values with how you show up in life and you put yourself first in that regard, you are also showing your children that their opinion of themselves is more important than what anybody else says or does because they're no longer seeing their mom destroyed by what other people are saying.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, anybody, anytime anybody says I don't give a shit what they think, you know, they totally do, because it's when you have to say that out loud. It's evidence that you are still processing something that bothers you. It's so true, isn't it? I bet you're thinking about somebody in your life who constantly says, I don't care what they think.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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This is an episode they need to hear because the fact that they're saying it out loud means they care what they think. And I really want to unpack this whole idea of not giving any fucks. And let's look at what Chrissy Teigen actually said, because I have it right here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You guys have no idea how many fucks I give. Give is the word. Because when you actually are worried or try to manage what somebody else thinks, you give someone else power. That's why Chrissy's crying, because she's sensing and realizing how much power other people had over her life. And here's the other thing I want to say, both to you and to Chrissy, and I said this to her on her podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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This isn't your fault. This isn't your fault. This was conditioned in you as a child. When you get positive reinforcement based on other people's behavior, your mom's or the adults around you, of course, you're getting conditioned to please other people. Of course, you're getting trained to care what other people think.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you don't even realize how often you do this. I didn't either until I discovered the let them theory and starting to learn to catch myself whenever I was considering what somebody else would think or how they might react and worrying about it and learning how to say let them, it has been life altering.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And a bigger issue is you're actually being taught somehow that you are responsible for other people's moods and opinions and that your worth is outside of you. And so I want to come back to the word give.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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When you give fucks or you give a shit or you give power to what somebody else thinks, you are always going to feel stressed out, anxious, and unworthy because you're never going to be in control of what somebody else thinks. And you're always going to be up in your head worried about it. And that's why the let them theory is going to change your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because when you say let them think something negative, Let them be disappointed. Let them be upset that I'm not meeting their expectations. Let them say that I'm rude. Let them believe that I should be acting a different way. Let them unfollow me. Let them think what they're going to think. And then a really funny thing happens, and this is something that I've noticed in my own life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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The more I say let them think something negative, and the more I take my power back, and I really put all my time and energy into showing up in my life in a way that makes me proud of myself, I know who I am.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And when I know who I am and I'm proud of myself because I'm trying and I'm doing my best and I know what my intentions are, I don't actually think about other people a whole lot because I know the truth. And that's what's available to you. And I want to go back to two things that Chrissy said that really struck me in the moment.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why do I do this? Like, why am I so mean to myself? Why am I such a people pleaser? Why do I constantly worry about what other people are thinking? Why, why, why? And the truth is, we're all like this. And it's a fundamental part of the human wiring. See, we are super hard on ourselves.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I'm sure if you really are honest with yourself, the way that Chrissy Teigen was honest with me about how she is bashing herself all the time, and she doesn't want to do this, and she doesn't want to pass this on to her kids. that I don't think we mean harm to ourselves. And yet here we are caught in this negative loop with ourselves.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so this is why we're looking for validation outside ourselves, because we're trying to escape the criticism that is running on repeat in our own heads. We're looking for clues from the outside world. And what I'm here to tell you is that since this has been going on since childhood, The better approach is to learn how to give yourself clues internally.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And one of the reasons why I thought I got to dedicate an entire episode to this is because first of all, you struggle with this. That's why you chose to listen to this. That's why somebody that you care about deeply forwarded you this episode because they want you to stop worrying so much about what everybody thinks and live your life and be happy. But I'm here to tell you, you're not alone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I never understood this until I talked to world-renowned psychiatrist and best-selling author, Dr. Paul Conti. He wrote the New York Times bestseller, Trauma, The Invisible Epidemic. And the introduction for that book, The Forward, was written by Lady Gaga because he treated Lady Gaga. And she says that Dr. Conti saved her life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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As soon as I was done talking to Chrissy Teigen, I remembered Dr. Paul Conti and his appearance on the Mel Robin podcast. And I'm like, this is exactly what he was talking about. I wish he was here talking to me and Chrissy. Well, through the magic of podcasting, I can bring him into this conversation because he explained why we are all so negative.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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why we are all criticizing ourselves, why we all feel like we're not good enough, and also why we give so much weight to other people's opinions, why we're constantly looking around at our bosses and our parents and our significant others and our friends for validation that we're a good person. And the way that he explains it

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's just, it's going to help you understand that other people's thoughts and other people's behavior does not determine your worth, even though this is how you've been operating since childhood. It's because this missing thing called attribution. This is so important that I really want you to hear Dr. Paul Conti explain this to you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So if you're exhausted by worrying about other people, or if you're tired of constantly feeling misunderstood, or if you feel like you're trapped in this prison of self-criticism, you're so hard on yourself, our conversation today will set you free. I'm going to teach you a revolutionary new approach to life. Let people have negative thoughts about you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Caring What People Think of You

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Every single human being struggles with this. And so I thought, here's what we're going to do. We're going to unpack this today because in the 35 press interviews that I've done so far for the Let Them Theory book,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That's what you and I are talking about today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If anything that Chrissy Teigen and I shared with you in those moments in her podcast resonated with you, or somebody in your life struggles with people pleasing, or if you're constantly on this negative loop and you really are navigating your life based on people's moods or their opinions or worrying about them or acting in a way, twisting yourself and not so that people think that you're the good daughter or the good wife or the good mom or the good dad,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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there's a different way that you can live. That good enough means that you know that within yourself, you have the ability through your thoughts and your actions to face anything. That you know based on your thoughts and actions that you're a good person. You know what you intended and that you hold the power and you are the person that determines your worth. I am on a roll.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I have so much more I want to share with you, but I got to hit the pause button so you can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. But don't you dare go anywhere, because when we return, we're jumping right back into this masterclass coaching session that you need, the people that you love need. So take a moment and share this with people in your life who need to be set free. Don't go anywhere.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Caring What People Think of You

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I'm going to be waiting for you after a short break, and then we're going to jump right back in. So stay with me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Caring What People Think of You

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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. I am so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you're learning how to let people have negative thoughts. And again, I'm so grateful that Chrissy Teigen is allowing me to play some moments from her new podcast, Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, because we all need to learn how to let people think negative thoughts and take the power back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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This is the biggest question everybody's asking, and I don't care who's on the other side of the microphone with me, whether it's Oprah Winfrey or the New York Times or it's Time Magazine or it is the Wall Street Journal. Everybody wants to know, how do I stop caring about what other people think? And that's what we're going to do today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And using the let them theory, you can truly take the power back and decide who you want to be. Since childhood, we have been looking outside of ourselves to confirm that we're okay and that we're loved and that we're worthy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the opportunity of this conversation is for you to take that power back and know inside yourself, based on how you act, how you treat yourself, what you think about, what you do, what you don't do, that you are a good person because you know who you are at your core. And nothing has helped me do that more than learning to say, let them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because when I say let them, if I put it in the words of Dr. Paul Conti, I'm now practicing attribution. I'm saying that if that person is in a bad mood, let them. If that person has a negative opinion about me, let them. I am attributing their behavior to them and I am not attaching it to me and my self-worth. Isn't that so cool?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's the world's best boundary because you realize that when you let other people think, say, do, feel how they feel, that you attribute their behavior and their thoughts to them alone. And then you say the second part, let me, and you take all the power back and attribute your power to your thoughts, your feelings, and what you do or don't do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that is how you will know deep in your core that you are good enough. That's how you're going to start to change the way that you talk yourself, the let me part, let me remind myself of who I am and that I'm a good person and I know what I intended.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that's how you stop this habit that so many of us have of constantly bending ourselves in knots or exhausting ourselves to try to please other people enough. You do not need to live that way. And I want to stay right on this topic because it's so important. I really wanted Chrissy to get this point that you will never be able to control what somebody else thinks. That's number one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And number two, that two things can be true at once is a really important thing that I teach in the let them theory and that I've learned over the last two years that somebody can be disappointed in you and still like you or love you. Somebody can misunderstand you and you can still be a good person. Somebody can have a negative thought about you and you can still have positive self-worth.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Two things can be true at once. And so in order to make sure that Chrissy and you understand that people are always going to have negative thoughts about you, always, and instead of exhausting yourself or putting yourself in a prison trying to manage what other people think, Learning to just accept that people have negative thoughts, including the people that are the closest to you.

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And I'm so excited because I'm going to teach you this in a really special way. We're going to talk about this topic and I'm going to unpack it by sharing a conversation with you that I had with Chrissy Teigen. And before we even jump into it, I want to thank Chrissy

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That is a liberating way to go through life. You're just going to learn to let them think something negative. So in this next segment from her podcast, Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, I want you to hear me set up this next piece of coaching all about how you're never going to be able to control what somebody else thinks.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And even the people that you love the most, they have negative thoughts about you all the time. Check this out. The issue is you're focused on me and what I think of you. I want you to start focusing on you and what you think of you. That's what matters. And I'm going to prove something to you. The people that love you the most. So who loves you more than anybody on the planet? John.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I know you love John. So give me some negative thoughts and opinions that you've had about John today or yesterday.

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Sometimes I'll share some for mine. So my husband gets up in the morning and farts and I'm like, you're disgusting. No. Or I worked late last night and I came down in the kitchen and he was eating cereal. And I'm like, you're not making dinner? What the hell? That's a negative thought. My daughter, Sawyer, she's so intense. I'm like, you need to chill, dude.

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Aren't you like sometimes?

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So that's an example of even though you love the person. Negative thoughts pop in your mind. It doesn't make you love him less. And there are times where you drive John flipping crazy. He may not be telling you this, but he's thinking in his mind something about you.

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And the point I'm trying to make is the average human being has 70,000 thoughts a day, Chrissy, and they can barely control what they're thinking. There is never going to be a moment where you can ensure that another human being thinks something that you want them to think. That's not where your power is. Your power is in the let me part.

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I want to thank her for allowing me to share this conversation with you because we were talking on her new podcast and she was so open with what she's struggling with and she struggles with what other people think about her. I mean, it's almost crippling to her that people would think something negative, that they would attack her. And she was so open about it.

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So whenever you feel yourself getting worked up, whether it's a press storm or it's something else, let them. When you spend all your time and energy exhausting yourself to make everybody else happy, You lose yourself. It is not your job when you become an adult, Chrissy, to manage or fix other adults' emotions.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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As a parent, you are responsible for helping your children process their emotions because children cannot regulate their own emotions without an adult helping them. But you are never responsible for managing someone else's emotions when they are an adult.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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No matter what you do, and I'm going to share some things with you to have you really try to embrace the truth of what I'm saying and the freedom that is available to you. Because it's so sad to me to see a woman that I respect who has an extraordinary marriage. You do so many remarkable things. You are an unbelievable businesswoman.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you place all of this power that you have in the hands of strangers on the Internet. And you don't have to live like this.

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And I hope you're feeling it too. And the sentence I want you to really laser in on is you don't have to live like this. And you don't have to have the millions of followers that Chrissy Teigen does to be paralyzed by people's opinions. I'm going to give you a simple example that I want you to think about. And it's an example that I know that you're going to relate to.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I shared it over and over and over when I would get asked about how you use the let them theory. to stop caring about other people's thoughts. And I would say, well, you're never gonna stop caring because it's important to care what other people think. Otherwise you'd be a selfish jerk. And I don't want you to be that. What you need to do is care more about what you think.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so learning to let people have negative thoughts First of all, it recognizes, number one, that you'll never be able to control what somebody else thinks. Therefore, it is not worth your time and energy because you protect your time and energy. And second, you also recognize that your value as a human being is not in what somebody else thinks. It is in what you think about yourself.

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And three... When you let people think negative thoughts, you are acknowledging the fear that you have because the reason why you worry about what everybody else thinks is because you're afraid that it's going to be negative. So when you say let them, you're allowing this fear without allowing it.

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And you're also really valuing your time and energy because you're saying, I'm not going to waste time and energy on something that I can't control. And I also know that the power is not in what somebody else thinks. The power is in me saying, And what I think about myself. And I know myself. So let them think something negative.

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And on top of it, she allowed me to coach her. And I got in her face about this because it's really sad when you hold yourself back because you're afraid of something that you can't control. Because you're going to learn you will never, ever, ever be able to control or guarantee what another person thinks about you. Never. Never.

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And let me remind myself that the power is in what I think about myself. And as long as I conduct myself in a way that I'm proud, even if somebody misunderstands me or is disappointed, I know the truth. Do you see how that means you hold the power? That you could be misunderstood and still understand yourself? That's true power. That's what's available to you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so let me give you this example that I shared over and over and over again as people would ask me questions about this. I want you to think about posting on social media. So you open up your favorite app. Mine is Instagram. And let's just say that there's something that you want to be using social media for. And maybe it's because you want to launch a new business.

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Or maybe you're a singer and you want to put out your music. Or maybe you're an artist and you want to post about your artistry. Or maybe, heck, You just want to put up a photo of you in a bathing suit or without a filter. So you're at this moment where you've got social media open. You go and you select a photo or you select this kind of video that you've shot. And then what do you do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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As you look at the photo or the video, you're like, oh, is this, you know, I don't know. Filter, filter, filter. Should I put this on? Is this too much? Too much for whom? As you're looking at the photo, who are you thinking about? You're not thinking about how you feel about the photo.

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You've actually, in that moment, as you stop and consider the photo, you are giving power to somebody else's opinion about the photo or video that you want to post. This is how quickly you put yourself in a prison. And then you go to write the caption and you're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, delete, delete, delete. Emoji, emoji, emoji. Is this too much? For who?

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I want to remind you of something. Your social media is for your self-expression. It's for your business. It's for your artistry. It's not for your sorority sisters from college. It's not for your family. It's not for the women in your mother's group. It's for you. And you want to know how sad it is that you literally have so many draft posts that you've saved?

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Those are the graveyard of your dreams and self-expression. All those draft posts that you never posted on social media. Why? Because you sat there, you looked at the thing you wanted to do, and then you gave power to somebody else's opinions or feelings. They're going to unfollow me. What are people going to think? And that's something you're never going to have control over.

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This is why you don't feel control of your life. This is why you don't feel like you're understood. It's because in this moment, you're actually censoring yourself. Do you want to know how sad this is? You don't have to live like this. Let them think a negative thought about what you're going to post. Let them unfollow you. Let them roll their eyes. Let them gossip.

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You can't control any of it anyway. The only thing you can control is you can control what you think of yourself. And so in that moment on social media, if you like the photo, post it. If you want to say something, say it. Your social media, you are giving power to people all damn day long. You will never be able to control it. There's a different way to live. Use the let them theory.

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Let them think something negative. Let them do something negative, like unfollow you or write some comment or whatever. Let them. You know that the power is not in someone else. The power is in you. And let me remind myself that what I think about myself matters more than what anybody thinks, says, or does or feels about it. What I do or don't do is where the power is.

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That's why I'm going to post what I want to post. I'm going to post the bathing suit photo. I'm going to post this video without the filter. I'm going to write something powerful in the description and not dumb it down with an emoji because I'm afraid of what somebody thinks, all of which is beyond my control. That's what we're talking about here.

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And so I not only got in Chrissy's face about this because I want her to have a breakthrough, but I need to get into your face about this because you need a breakthrough about this.

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Let them think something negative and take the power back for yourself. And you are going to feel so different in your life. Your social media is going to be different. You're going to be different at work, different with your family, because you're going to stop giving power to something that is beyond your control. You do not need to live that way.

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And the let them theory will help you take your power back. I just want to give one more big shout out to Chrissy Teigen and to our partners and friends at Audible. Thank you, thank you, thank you for allowing me to share some of that extraordinary conversation with you.

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If you want to hear the whole thing, just go to audible.com forward slash Chrissy and Mel and you can listen to the entire thing. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for hitting play and finding and making the time to listen to something that will truly change your life.

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And I wanted to have this conversation in the way that I did because I knew that if you listen to some of the conversation with Chrissy, you would see yourself for somebody that you love in it. And by bringing in the deeper explanation from Dr. Paul Conti, I knew it would hit you at a much more profound level. It is possible to change how you think.

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It's possible to change how you talk to yourself. It's possible to feel good enough. And it is possible to learn how to let people think negative thoughts about you. Because when you know the truth about who you are, you're not really going to think much about other people at all.

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Alrighty, and in case nobody else tells you this, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to take what you just listened to and watched today and use it to change how you talk to yourself and to change where you pour your time and energy and to take your power back.

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Right now, you are holding yourself back because you're worried about what your friends from college are thinking, or you're worried about what your parents are going to be thinking, or you're worried about what your boss is going to think, or this, or that, or the other thing. And more importantly, it's not even that worrying about it is the problem.

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And when you do that, there is no doubt in my mind that your life's gonna get better. And I will be waiting for you in the very next episode as soon as you hit play. All right, great. Thanks, guys. Here we go. Okay, hold on a second. Sorry, let me hit that again. Don't be, oh my God, damn it. Sorry. I am on a roll. I am on a, look, I am just starting. Look, I'm just getting going.

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Oh my God, damn it. Okay, I can't put a word together. Okay, so here's what I'm gonna say. I got it. You ready? Okay, that was perfect. Wow, that's incredible.

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Our garage band. Good. I think we got it. Don't you? That's a wrap. Oh my God. Woo. That was a monster. Thank you guys. Great job, everybody. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

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I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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It's the fact that you then aim it back at yourself. I think it's fine to care what other people think. It's a sign that you're a good person. That's not the problem. The problem is how you hold yourself back. how you silence your opinion, how you use other people's opinions as a means to make yourself feel like you're not good enough as you are. That's going to stop today.

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And the reason why we struggle with this is because you believe that there's a way that you can behave that somehow can manipulate or guarantee that somebody will think a certain thing. I'm here to tell you, you can't. And any time and any energy that you pour into trying to manipulate or control or guarantee what somebody else is gonna think about you is a gigantic waste of time and energy.

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And in fact, anytime you start worrying about what somebody else thinks about you, you actually cause stress and anxiety for yourself. The fact that you're worrying about what everybody thinks so much is actually a major source of stress. And there is an easier way to live. I am going to prove it to you today with the help of Chrissy Teigen.

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And it may surprise you that when you listen to Chrissy and you listen to her share, it may surprise you that when you consider her life, well, this is a woman that is so wildly successful. She's an extraordinary businesswoman. She has four amazing kids. She's got an incredible marriage to John Legend. And she struggles with this. And so from the outside, you see somebody who's succeeding.

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Your power is never in what someone else thinks. Your power is in what you think about yourself. Today, you're going to learn how to use the let them theory to let people have their opinions and focus on living your life in a way that makes you proud of yourself. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so thrilled to be here with you.

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So you don't think that this is a person who feels misunderstood. You don't think that this is a person who feels like she's living in a prison of her own making. You don't think that this is a person who lives in fear that she's going to pass this on to her kids. And what is it that she's afraid she's going to pass on to her kids?

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Well, it's this fear of being misunderstood, this fear that people are criticizing her, this fear that she can never do anything right. And the let them theory is liberating in this regard. Not only for Chrissy Teigen, but also for you and for whomever you share this with.

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And so I just want to thank Chrissy because she is giving me permission to share a few segments from her new podcast, Self-Conscious, with Chrissy Teigen. And you can listen to the whole conversation that Chrissy and I had right now if you just go to audible.com forward slash Chrissy and Mel. So on the opening of her podcast, I explained to Chrissy what the let them theory is.

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And in case you're brand new to the Mel Robbins podcast family, let me just share what the let them theory is to you as well. So let them theory is a very simple mindset tool that shows you instantly what's in your control and what's not in your control. And there's two very simple parts to the let them theory.

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Part one, you're going to use whenever you feel yourself starting to get frustrated or stressed out or annoyed or worried about what somebody else is doing, feeling or saying. Just say, let them. Let them say what they're going to say. Let them think what they're going to think. I'm going to stop trying to control them and just let them. And the second step is when you say, let me.

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And when you say, let me, you remind yourself that in life, there's only three things you can control. It's what you think, it's what you do or don't do, and it's how you process the feelings that are rising up. And when you say, let me, this is where you get your power back. let me remind myself that my power is not in what other people are doing. My power is always in my response.

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And when you focus on your response, and particularly you focus on showing up in a way that makes you proud of yourself, You're now in control of your life. And so I explained that to Chrissy on her new podcast. And this is what she had to say in response.

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Yeah, I'm so happy that she shared that because I don't think it sounds desperate at all. Haven't you ever had an experience in your life where you felt like you just wish that people didn't misunderstand you? That you wish people knew how good you were? How you had such great intentions? I think that's a really universal fear.

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And I was so glad that she actually shared that this is the one thing I wish I could change. I mean, just imagine what would change about your life if... you really could just let people think what they think and you didn't worry about being misunderstood. And so, of course, I had to ask Chrissy directly, like, why are you so concerned about what other people think?

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And what is it exactly that you're afraid of? And this is what she had to say.

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I think it's been inside all of us since we were little. I mean, if you just think about your own life, when did you get positive attention? It's when you were performing or you got good grades or the team that you were on won.

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And so what she's talking about here is something that so many of the psychologists and psychiatrists that have come on the Mel Robbins podcast talk about, which is the experience that you had when you were little, where you got positive attention. It kind of tells you,

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Oh, when other people are telling me that I'm good, when other people are giving me positive attention, that's how I know that I feel good about myself. But here's the problem. As long as you locate your goodness and whether or not you're doing a good job as a person in the opinions and the moods of other people, you're never going to be in control of it.

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And that's why so many of us, whether it's Chrissy Teigen or it's you or it's me, we find ourselves in these situations in life where you're like, oh my gosh, why am I so concerned about what other people think about me?

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Thank you, thank you, thank you for hitting play on this episode and choosing to spend some time with me. It is always an honor to be together with you. If you're brand new to the Mel Robbins Podcast, I just want to welcome you to the family. Here's what I know about you.

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And as I explained to Chrissy, look, it's natural when you're a kid because you need to be cared for to be deeply, deeply connected to the people around you and attuned to them and looking to them for positive signaling that you're okay and that you're good. That's what happens when we're kids. But when we are adults, we have to pull that back to ourselves.

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And that's where the let them theory is really going in. to change things. Because when you outsource your self-worth, when you outsource the positive affirmations to other people's opinions, you will never feel safe.

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And so I was explaining to Chrissy that you're really going to love the Let Them Theory because it's going to teach you how to stop looking outside yourself for the thing that you're actually seeking. And as I started to explain this to Chrissy, the That the more you can learn to let other people say what they're going to say, be who they're going to be, the better your life is going to get.

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Because you're going to understand that what you think about yourself is actually the most important thing. And in this next part, in the conversation that we had on her new podcast, Self-Conscious, she started talking about her relationship with herself. And this is where it starts to go way deeper. Take a listen.

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You're clearly in a prison of it because you've given all the control to other people. Your worth, your value, whether or not you're happy, whether or not you are proud of yourself is entirely given away to other people's reactions or what they say. And just like you cannot control what another human being feels, you will never be able to control what someone else thinks about you.

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The fact that you actually hit play on this tells me that you're the kind of person who really values your time and that you've made the time to listen to something that could truly help you create a better life. There is no doubt in my mind, you have hit play on the perfect episode because today we are gonna unpack a topic that I personally believe is the single biggest obstacle

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I can by being really good. No, you can't. I know. No, you can't. When we're done talking, can you control what I'm going to say about you when my two daughters are like, can you actually control what my thoughts and feelings about you are going to be? No.

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So there's a couple of things I want to unpack about this because she's describing something that you have experienced, which is if you ever had the experience of you wake up in the morning, you feel fine, you feel good about yourself. The day starts and then you get to work and something goes down.

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And suddenly you're obsessing over the email that somebody sent you or the mood that your boss is in, or maybe something happened at school or with your friends and you start obsessing. I should have done this. I should have done that. I should have done the other thing. What are we doing when we do that? What we're doing is we're giving our power away.

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We're basically saying that our worth lies in what another human being thinks about us. That if you don't act the right way at work and somebody's upset with you, that somehow now you're the bad person. I'm here to tell you, absolutely not. This is why you need the let them theory. Like your boss's bad mood doesn't mean you're a bad person.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I just walked out of the studio here in Boston. I am absolutely blown away by what I just learned about stopping negative self-talk from our guest. You're about to meet him. His name is Dr. Ethan Cross.

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He's going to give you tools so that the next time you find yourself falling down that rabbit hole of rumination and worry, you can throw yourself a lifeline. So if you're ready to stop overthinking and silence that self-doubt and finally take back your power, this is the episode you've been waiting for. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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I have never heard anybody explain self-talk and that inner voice so elegantly and in a way that I actually get it.

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What are some of the examples of negative self-talk that just show up again and again? I think hearing it from you would really validate it for me and for the person who's with us right now, because if we don't, if we're reluctant to even be honest with ourselves and put it on paper, what can you validate based on the fact that this is your area of expertise?

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It's what you research that you see over and over and over again that are examples of negative self-talk.

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I am so fired up for our conversation today. I'm so excited that you're here. It is always such an honor to spend time together and to be with you. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm thrilled that you're here.

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So it could be like, just to give it even a more fine point, it could be that you really screwed up in a relationship and now you're telling yourself the one got away. Yeah. Or you made dumb financial decisions. This was me. And now why did I do that? I should have started with my 401k like my father told me when I graduated from college. College, like just hammering yourself into the ground.

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How did I let myself go? I should have, like, I've just, now it's too late. I've been drinking, like all that kind of stuff that's in the past. And why is this such a predominant form of self-talk for people?

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Oh, completely. Absolutely. Like if I get into that loop where I am obsessing over something that I think I did wrong, I can't do anything else.

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And because you made the time to hit play and listen to this particular episode, it tells me something about you. It tells me that you're the kind of person who wants to take control of your inner voice and you want to learn how to be more encouraging and positive, especially when it comes to yourself. And you know what? I think that's amazing because I want to learn how to do that too.

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Got it. So rumination, the first is the past. The second form of self-talk is getting stuck in a negative loop, talking to yourself about the future. And what's the third form?

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Yeah. That's what it can feel like when you just start hammering yourself.

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Ethan, what is the solution? I mean, now that you're exposing all the negative self-talk, I mean, is there a simple way to shut it up or a magic wand you can wave in order to just silence all of this negative self-talk? Or is this a much more complicated thing that we need to take on?

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I don't like that answer.

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And if you're listening right now or you're watching on YouTube because someone shared this with you, I want to take a minute and point out to you that that means that you've got someone in your life that really cares about you. And so thank you for trusting them and thank you for being here.

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Oh, I like that.

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There is because I feel bummed.

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Yeah.

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So do you have a favorite journal prompt that's helpful for starting the process of identifying your negative chatter? What is it?

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And this is a home run of a podcast episode for you to listen to or watch because Dr. Ethan Cross is in the house. He is a psychologist and a neuroscientist, and he's been a pioneering researcher in the field of self-talk and emotions for 25 years. Ethan Cross is also a professor at the University of Michigan, where he's taught for the past 17 years.

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Until now.

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I just love how you teach. And you know, what I want to do is just hit the pause button real quick so that we can all just think about what you're sharing so far.

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And I also want to give you, as you're listening to Ethan, a chance to share this with people that you care about, because I think we all need to know how to stop the negative self-talk and don't go anywhere because Ethan is just getting started. There are so many tools that he's going to be sharing with you. Don't go anywhere. He and I will be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us.

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He's a professor at the University of Michigan, a neuroscientist, and he spent the last 25 years researching how your self-talk determines your experience of life. and how it also impacts what it actually feels like to be you. Now, this is something that I've struggled with, and I know you struggle with negative self-talk too, and the people that you care about struggle with it.

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Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I have the honor of getting to spend time with and learn from Professor Ethan Cross from the University of Michigan. He is teaching us all about our self-talk and simple ways that we can actually change it. You've got like I mean, I'm looking at 12 tools that you can use personally. There are tools for getting other people to support you.

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There's tools for receiving support. Let me start with the first one. Use distanced self-talk. One way to create distance when you're experiencing chatter involves language. So what is distanced self-talk and how do I use it when I'm going down the rabbit hole?

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No, I'm not.

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Oh, you mean like talking, like saying to myself, come on now.

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That's distance self-talk?

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He is also the founder and the director of the research institute at the University of Michigan, the Emotion and Self-Control Laboratory. His work has appeared in esteemed journals like Science and the New England Journal of Medicine.

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Solomon's Paradox?

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I'm not going to know the answer to this.

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Oh, being wise.

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So when you use the example of being in the gym and one purpose of your self-talk is motivation, and you say, come on, Ethan, you got this. That's right. That's an example of using positive, motivating self-talk using this distanced language.

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Like saying that I'm never going to be good enough. What are some examples of just things people could start to say to themselves?

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He earned his PhD from Columbia University, and he is also the author of two bestselling books, Chatter, The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It. And his latest bestselling book is called Shift, Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You.

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Oh, that's nice. That's a nice thing to say to yourself, Ethan.

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So give me another positive one.

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You know, one of the other tools that you talk about that's very effective at helping you get a handle on the inner critic and this negative chatter that we have is rituals. Can you explain that?

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His books have been translated into over 40 languages, and today he's going to unpack the insights so that you can use this research to stop the negative self-talk. So please help me welcome Dr. Ethan Cross to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you for hopping on a plane and being here in our Boston studios. I cannot wait to dig into your work in your bestselling book, Chatter.

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I don't know.

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Not at all.

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Okay. So let's have a conversation about this. Because not only did I see on page 170 tools that involve your environment to really get your negative self-talk in control, But the first one is create order in your environment. When we experience chatter, we often feel as if we're losing control, you write. Our thought spirals control us rather than the other way around.

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When this happens, you can boost your sense of control by imposing order on your surroundings. Organizing your environment can take many forms, tidying up your work or home, making a list, arranging different objects. This is, I think... my number one way to combat negative self-talk, and I never knew that's what I was doing.

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And of course, congratulations on your new book, Shift. It's so exciting to have you here.

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I absolutely had no idea this is a technique that we reach for when our overwhelm and our minds get to be too much.

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Okay. Well, let's talk about that because I can see lots of various moments in my life. Like when my husband and I were really, really struggling, the kids would joke that they would come home from school. And every other day I would have moved the furniture around, dragging it and scraping the floor in the room where the TV was like, just like, I got to change this around.

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And even thinking about packing Sunday night to come down, I have this thing about packing that where I start to feel very overwhelmed. And then I'm mad at myself that I didn't pack before. And now I'm beating myself up relentlessly. Why is it so hard for you? Like, just make a damn list. And why didn't you do this on Saturday morning?

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And Jesus, you meant to leave like two hours ago and I'm like hammering myself. And that of course makes it impossible to leverage what you've already taught us, which is the planning and forecasting aspect of your self-talk because I'm so busy berating myself. So literally I come down in the kitchen on Sunday night I'm two and a half hours late leaving. I'm not even packed yet, Ethan.

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And I have clothes still spinning in the dryer upstairs. And you know what I did? I literally pulled out the junk drawer in the kitchen. And you started organizing. Yes. And my husband comes over and he puts his hand on my shoulder. He's like, you don't need to be doing this right now. And what I wanted to do is scream around me like, and I took a deep breath and And I was like, right.

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But what I'm realizing is that was me trying to create order and what felt like a tornado of negativity in my brain.

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Is that why we do to-do lists too? Like when we feel overwhelmed?

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You know what I find interesting too about what you just said?

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The chaos doesn't bother me when I'm happy.

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My desk can look like we tipped over an aisle at Staples and just crap everywhere. But if I start to feel overwhelmed or stressed at work, I don't do work. I clean my desk.

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Awesome. Well, let's just jump right into it. And here's how I want to start. I would love to have you... Do you want me to call you Professor Cross? Ethan? What do you like?

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Uh, like, I, like, isn't there that song? There it is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay, Ethan. We're going with Ethan.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Ethan, I would love to have you speak directly to the person who's here spending time together with us right now and tell them exactly... what they could expect to have be different about their life if they take everything that you're about to teach us about our self-talk, about our emotions to heart, and they put it to use in their life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay. That's the wish.

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I'm going to have less stress. I am going to cause less drama for myself and other people. I am going to feel more at peace and more in control because all of this negative chatter and overwhelm that becomes very paralyzing makes me feel out of control and incapable. So the outcome would be very positive.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the reason we focus- I love the affirmations. Just hang around all day.

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I am fluent in negative self-talk. Okay. I am fantastic at criticizing myself. I can whip myself into a human tornado in a nanosecond. And it can be very effective when I get into a tizzy because other people try to help.

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So I think those are all lots of obstacles. Like just being honest about like, I don't even know if I can do it would be an obstacle.

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Yeah.

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Mel, you can handle this. It's not that big of a deal.

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That's another tool in your book. Go for a walk in nature.

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Okay.

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What do I do? What is it I'm not

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I think that could work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And then that helps me also access the positive distance talk that you've taught us. Which is if I time travel even two weeks, like a week from now, you've already packed and been on the trip and now you're home. Like it's not that big of a deal. And then I can start to go, Mel, Take a deep breath. You're capable of packing.

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And you know what else I want to point out? Because I think it's important to keep highlighting this. You've given us other tools of creating a ritual and playing music and going outside and taking a walk. In that moment, playing a song and taking a walk would just stress me out more.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But I can see how now you're starting to build this toolkit.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Where I'm not going for a walk right now, but I can time travel to calm myself down. And then I can use positive distance talk to say, Mel, you can pack a bag.

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I don't know. What does it mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Oh, gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Is there something you would add to that, though? Because if you're a world-class self-critic and berater. Yeah. I could see that strategy being something that only becomes more evidence where you go and you're such a piece of crap that you're sitting here working yourself up about this thing. You know what I'm saying? Like you actually shit.

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So how do you take that to give yourself perspective, but then keep yourself lifted in your capacity to coach yourself through it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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This is so fascinating. And I could just talk to you all day. I have so many more questions, but I want to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And I also want to give you a chance to share this amazing conversation with people that you care about. Because there is zero doubt in my mind that these tools are going to help me stop the negative self-talk.

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And I want that for you. And I want that for the people in your life too. So share this with people you care about and don't go anywhere. Because as you are learning, Ethan has a lot of tools. That's right, plural. And he's got a lot more to share with you when we return. We'll be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And today you and I are learning from Professor Ethan Cross from the University of Michigan. So, you know, over the break, Ethan, I was thinking about something else I wanted to ask you. And so where I want to go next is how important of a role does environment play in self-talk being positive or negative?

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Yeah. I think that, that, you know, if you think about walking through an office, oftentimes that's the thing that tethers you through the day is the reminder of what's meaningful in your life, especially when you're having a stressful day. Exactly. Sort of like the way that you time traveled backwards to your grandmother.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So true.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Wow.

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You know, I just had an experience where last week I got some very, very difficult news. And so I had a horrible night's sleep, could not fall asleep, woke up. It was like 5.15 in the morning, which is ungodly early for me. And it was pitch dark outside. My husband, Chris, was gone. And I laid there and I could just feel the negative. What if this happened?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That's a tall order.

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Or you're just kind of trying to problem solve through something that's scaring you to death in your life or your work or whatever. And I thought, I need to get the hell out of this bed. So I got up, I got the dogs outside, and then I thought I should go for a walk, even though the moon is still out and it is pitch dark because my mind is a horrendous place right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, I've read your books, so I know you can deliver on that. You know, you have been at the University of Michigan. You are the founding director and have been running this incredible lab, the Emotion and Self-Control Lab. What has it taught you? What do you want us to know?

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And the last thing I want to do is look at social media or try to solve it that way or log on to email. And so I put on my coat and I still have my pajamas on. And I started walking down the driveway.

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And as I was walking in the pitch dark and I'm seeing the moon start to lower, and I started thinking to myself, sort of like you thought about your grandmother, about the fact that in the scale of humanity and the fact that I am but a speck on this planet hurtling through space, The crap that's keeping me up at like, I'm sorry, again, still negative, shaming myself if you take notice.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But as I rounded the corner and the moon is set, it probably took about 13 to 15 minutes of walking. But there was an owl. It was like, whoo. And I'm like, oh, the owl doesn't care. And as I kept walking and my senses were activated, it pulled me into the experience of the walking. And then the sun started to come up and slowly but surely, I noticed that the beat down was gone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why does that work?

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Because I think we've all experienced feeling better and clearing our mind. Yeah.

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when we either take a walk or if it's available to you, you can get outside in green space.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah. And more importantly, I think it helps you access the other tools because, you know, the thing is, is that the walk didn't disappear the problem. It actually lowered the chatter. And so when I got back and into my work day and inevitably other things happen that then bring it back up, whether I started organizing my desk. Yeah.

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or I'm using the other tools, I can see what you're teaching us, which is you have the ability to catch it.

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When it's taking you down.

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And then use these tools to create distance from it. So there are so many tools in the book and we've covered a bunch of them so far, but what are some other quick and simple tactics and tools that the person listening can use to make their inner voice more positive?

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I mean, I'm so blown away by what you're about to hear and what you're about to learn. In fact, I've never heard anyone lay out the exact ways you can stop negative self-talk. In fact, right out of the gate, he's going to tell you there are four reasons why you and I talk to ourselves. I mean, I didn't know these four reasons. And once you hear it, it's so fascinating and it makes a lot of sense.

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Oftentimes it's actually not.

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Ethan, what does a person do if they're listening to you and they've got someone in their life who's really struggling because of the way they talk to themselves? I mean, just down on themselves, down emotionally. What is the best thing that you can do to help somebody that you care about when you see them really beaten down emotionally?

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Okay. Is this another one of these secret weapons?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Lay it on us, Ethan. Okay. How do we do invisible support?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Oh, you can always do it in a group chat. That's my favorite thing to do is just hit the family group chat, hit the friend chat. Hey everybody, great episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What is that?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Yeah, that's what aunts do, not uncles.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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That's true. Affectionate, but not creepy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Oh, I just pulled them against you. You hug them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I totally get it. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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For sure. Yeah. And just so many tools to reach for that will help you do that. If the person takes just one action based on everything that you've poured into us from your two books, Chatter and Shift, what is the most important thing to do?

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I'm stunned because this topic can be so heady and you made it so accessible and tactical, just like you said that you would. Congratulations on the bestselling book, The Manual, that now exists for all of us to turn our inner critic into positive coaching chatter. Congratulations on your mega bestseller, Shift. I am so happy you came. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I also want to thank you. Thank you for choosing to spend time listening to something that can help you create a better life. And there's no doubt in my mind that everything that Ethan taught us today is going to help you change your self-talk from something that is beating you down to something that's lifting you up. And that will change your life and the life of people that you care about.

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Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. And in case no one else tells you, I want to tell you in the words of Ethan, you got this, you can do this. And I also want to tell you in case no one else does, I love you.

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I admire the fact that you're taking time to listen to something like this, and I know it was worth your time, and I also know it's going to help you create a better life. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days, and I will be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode, the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

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My brain is like, take a bunch of mice, put them in a cardboard box and tip them over in a restaurant.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That is how my brain works.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why are you like a spreadsheet on legs?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Oh, it's true because you're managing it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Is that one of your tools? Negative self-talk. Take a leak. Yes. Professor Cross is going to tell you that there are four reasons why you actually talk to yourself. Oh, I always said that actually. Is it sounding all right? And what I want to know is after having, oh wait, sorry, your work has been cited. Sorry. That was great. Thanks so much. So good. Oh my God. Oh, and one more thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Well, let's start with going down the rabbit hole.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because, you know, your first bestselling book, Chatter the Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters and How to Harness It. When is the last time you went down the rabbit hole?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Like you seem like such a chill guy, like super tortured yourself about worry or negative thoughts.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Are you going to get in trouble for telling the story, Ethan, on a podcast?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So now he's going down the rabbit hole. My wife is going to kill me.

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How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Every day. Like, I mean, you're like saying a couple months ago, I'm like, dude, like if you asked me that question, I'd be like about an hour ago. But it is true because we are so good at thinking about the negative and imagining the worst case scenarios, but we're not so great at imagining that things would go right.

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Well, one of the things that you said that I am excited is you said, I'm going to teach you how to turn your inner critic into a coach. And I would love to start with this amazing book, Chatter, and all your research about the voice in our head. And I want to read a part of your book to you because this was jaw dropping to me.

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And then he's going to share that you say 4,000 words a minute to yourself. And just to put that into perspective, that's like reading the first book of Harry Potter series in less than 20 minutes. I mean, that's a lot of words. And if you're anything like me, 99% of what you're saying is pretty terrible. I'm not good enough. I shouldn't have done this. What if that happens?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So our verbal stream of thoughts, our self-talk, is so industrious that according to one study, we internally talk to ourselves at a rate equivalent to speaking 4,000 words a minute. And to put this into perspective, I crunched the numbers, 4,000 words a minute is the equivalent of reading the first book in the Harry Potter series in less than 20 minutes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, you're right that the key to beating this negative self-talk and this chatter in our head isn't to stop talking to yourself. The challenge is to figure out how to do so more effectively. But before we can get into how to control the voice in our head, we need to answer a more basic question. Why do we have one in the first place?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So Ethan, what is self-talk and what exactly is that voice that's in our head that's chattering 4,000 words a minute?

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Be careful.

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Well, if I didn't have a pen and couldn't write it down, I would repeat it over and over and over again.

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Yes.

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Or I'd come up with rhymes to try to remember it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Negative Thoughts & Reset Your Mind for Positive Thinking

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Wait, so that's what the basic of your inner voices is to help you remember things?

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And oftentimes death by a thousand cuts.

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Never should have sent that text. I promise you, you are going to leave this conversation today a different person. Because Professor Cross isn't just bringing the research, he's bringing tools. And he's bringing a lot of them. Professor Cross is going to tell you, you can turn your inner critic into a coach.

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You know what else you said I just realized? When I'm packing for a trip, I'm like thinking ahead to where I'm going and what I'm going to need.

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Oh, keep going. Okay. I, I, because of some of the experts we've had on the show, I now lift weights.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I walk, I do yoga and Pilates. Okay. Um, I have like a super active lifestyle outside, but if, but if I'm quote exercising, I have to drag myself to the gym and then I use an app to motivate myself. Okay. And that's what I do.

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All the time. Like I did this morning in a class. Tell us, tell us. I freaking hate this. Why are we on our hands? I don't want to do a pike right now. I feel like I'm in a gym class with a woman who's talking like this and who's like screaming at me, like screaming. And why is she playing ACD at 6.30 in the morning? I thought this was a freaking Pilates class. Yeah.

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Like, so it was literally like I'm saying that to myself. As she would walk closer, I would think, get away from me. Go to the other side of the room. Or I'm thinking this is too heavy. I'm tired. I want to quit. See, clearly I don't have a lot of willpower and discipline because my chatter is a constant barrage of why I should stop doing what I'm actually doing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So it's possible if you are constantly against yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Today's episode is a profound wake-up call. The expert you're about to meet is going to teach you things about your body that you have never heard before. For example, did you know that you don't have to get weaker as you get older? You don't have to slow down. In fact, her pioneering research shows the exact opposite.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And because you made the time to hit play and listen to this particular episode... I know that you're the kind of person who not only values your time, you value your health and the quality of your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Well, it really strikes me that after six years of being bedside... Mm-hmm. with women who are fighting for their lives, battling cancer, that if I had had to guess, I would have thought you would have gone into oncology. I think it's fascinating that the experience of being with people who could lose their life actually led you to a medical discipline

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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that allowed you to prolong life and that has now led you to being a world-renowned and respected voice about longevity and how you can age differently. So have you thought about how those two things connect?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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And you're going to love today's conversation with the extraordinary Dr. Vonda Wright. And I also want to say this. If you chose to listen to this right now because someone in your life shared this with you, I just think that's really cool that somebody sent this to you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Dr. Wright, I am so happy that you went to the most important and profound reason why this conversation today matters. And you have this concept about healthspan versus lifespan that I think really encapsulates the fact that while we are all going to get older, we do not have to be frail. There is a completely different future that's available to us as we age.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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What is the difference between healthspan and lifespan?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Because it means you have someone in your life that cares about you and they want you to learn how to leverage the intelligent, miraculous design of your body and how to feel stronger and more energized in your life. And that's exactly what you're going to learn to do today as you and I spend time together with Dr. Vonda Wright.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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I would love to just stay right there because I think that is a extraordinarily powerful idea. That as you imagine yourself getting older, you do not have to imagine yourself becoming breakable and frail. That there is this, what you call the medicine of mobility that you're going to talk about today that is important for all of us to understand and embrace. I don't care how old or young you are.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Mm-hmm. and that there is a different way to age that creates a completely different life, and that you do have control here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now, Dr. Wright is a renowned double board certified orthopedic surgeon. She specializes in hip preservation, musculoskeletal aging, and sports medicine, and she has treated over 100,000 patients in her career.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Well, one thing that I will say is that if you are somebody that listens to this podcast and you normally listen to it while you're sitting at work or you're sitting in your car, like one change you could make is listen to this while you're walking. Absolutely. And that way you're combining the advice with your interest in listening to something that's helping you improve your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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Let's take a quick break and hear a word from our incredible sponsors. And I want to give you a chance to also share this episode with people in your life who you know are going to love learning from Dr. Wright. And don't go anywhere. There are so many more strategies and tools that you're going to want to hear when we return. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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I am so glad you're still here with me. You and I are spending time today with Dr. Vonda Wright, and we're learning all about how mobility is medicine. So Dr. Wright, you've said that our understanding of aging is completely skewed because all of the studies that have been done on folks that are older are studies done on people who don't move much. Can you unpack this for us? Absolutely.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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At the University of Pittsburgh, she was the medical director of the UPMC Sports Complex and the director of many of their biggest research groups, including the Performance and Research Initiative for Masters Athletes. She's also an internationally recognized researcher, and you're going to hear about some of her fascinating studies today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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That doesn't sound that old. It's a category, right? Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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You have with you these MRI results. And we're going to put them up on the screen for you if you're watching on YouTube. But I would love to have you walk us through. Yeah. What we're looking at here, and if you could just keep in mind that there's a person listening so we describe it for them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So we're basically saying if you do a 5K and you're over 40, you're considered a master athlete.

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You're also going to learn about her pioneering work in mobility, musculoskeletal aging, and how it's changing the way we view and treat longevity, mobility, and the aging process. She's also written five bestselling books, including Fitness After 40, Younger in Eight Weeks, Guide to Thrive, and the upcoming book, Unbreakable.

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Yeah, it looks almost like a filet. It does. And I'm looking at this beautiful, almost like a solid piece of meat on a 40-year-old athlete. It looks exactly the same on the 70-year-old who's active. But talk to me about the one in the middle, which is the 74-year-old who does nothing and sits around because that looks like a bowl of cottage cheese. That does not look... healthy.

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And what you are saying to us today is that you're going to teach us that aging is inevitable, but how you age is within your control. And so for somebody that's listening in their 20s to 40s, this message about, look, you have got to incorporate movement because it creates... a roadmap for a long, amazing life.

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And I think the message to anybody that's listening that's 40, 50, 60, 70 is it's not too late. Exactly.

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Right. Well, let's start there because I want to hear you explain what are the critical habits for that decade of 35 to 45. But I want to just tell the person that's with us right now who's either taking us on a walk or you're listening at home or we're in the car with you because you're probably thinking, oh, my God, I blew that decade. Now I'm screwed. Yeah. And so we're going to get to you.

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Aren't you so excited to learn how to unlock all of the natural strength and natural design of your body to make your life better? I know I sure am. So please help me welcome Dr. Vonda Wright to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Vonda Wright, thank you, thank you, thank you for hopping on a plane and coming all the way to our Boston studios. I am so thrilled that you're here. It's my pleasure.

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And Dr. Wright has very good news because, well, I'm just going to ask that right now. What if you're over 45 like me or your parents are over 45 and you're listening right now and you feel like, is it too late for me to course correct? Is it too late for me to build strong muscle? Why the hell do I need strong muscle in order to have a better health span?

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Like what about the person who's listening or who got this forwarded to them? Who's over 45. Yeah.

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I just want to make sure the person hears this. Yeah. So, Dr. Wright, you're sitting here as an expert in longevity and helping us age in a way that creates a better life. Yes. There is never an age where if you're listening to Dr. Wright right now and you're 92 years old. Mm-hmm. You can still improve your health span. You can still change the way you age.

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You should think of this as an investment in yourself. Well, what I also love about what you said from the very beginning is reminding us of the obvious. Our bodies are designed to move. Yeah. Like you're, as an orthopedic surgeon, been repairing people's bodies and joints and bones, but your body is designed to move.

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And one of the things to think about when you think about wellness and you think about your health span and you think about aging in a very different way is that we expect to get frail because we expect to slow down and stop moving. And if you actually flip it on its head and you say, well, actually, I don't expect to stop moving. Yeah. I certainly don't. I want to be hiking like the week I die.

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So I wanted to start by having you speak directly to the person who is listening. And explain what they might experience that's going to be different about their life or a person that they love who they share this with if they take to heart everything that you're about to explain to us today.

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I want to be taking five-mile walks every day when I'm retired. I want to be swimming in the ocean. I want to be going to yoga class. I want to be out and about. And when you realize, wait a minute, my body's actually designed in a certain way. If I just work with it, it will work with and for me.

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Well, this is like a really important point because I don't think I truly thought about the possibility of it looking completely different when you get old. I want you to really embrace what Dr. Wright is saying. Imagine a world where the 80 or 90-year-old who has muscles and is going to the gym is not defying the odds. It's normal. They're actually the norm. Yeah.

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And that's what you're saying, that you're like, I want you to embrace the idea that we've all bought into this lie, that getting old means you have to be frail. And what you're here to say is, no, actually the research is very clear on this. Your body is designed to build muscle, to grow and to move.

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And if that's what you do, whether you're starting for the first time at the age of 70, or you're listening right now and you're 25 and you're like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. I need to do this so that I can live a vibrant life. Like, this is just a part of what I need to be doing.

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Yes. We do nothing. Yes. And you're basically saying if you literally just get up out of the chair and you move the legs that you have or you wheel yourself in your wheelchair, you are doing what your body is designed to do and your body will thank you by building muscle.

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You will end up frail and old. You will be the statistic of somebody who breaks their bone and who dies an early death. That's what's coming for you. You're right. And that is what I'm saying. What you're sharing, and I think more importantly, how you're sharing it, it's game-changing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so I'm so grateful that you're here, and I'm also grateful that you're here and you're spending the time learning with me as we listen to Dr. Vonda Wright. Now, I want to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors, and I want to give you a chance to share this episode with people that you care about.

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Don't go anywhere, because when we come back, there is so much more that you and I are going to learn from Dr. Vonda Wright. So stay with us. Hey, it's your buddy Mel Robbins. Welcome back. I am so thrilled that you're here with me today. And I'm also thrilled that you and I get to learn from the extraordinary Dr. Vonda Wright.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And we're learning all about mobility and how movement is medicine and how to unlock the natural, intelligent strength and design of your body so that you can be happier and healthier. Dr. Wright, here's where I want to go next. Since you're an orthopedic surgeon, I would love to have you educate us about joints and bones. Yeah. What is a joint?

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Whether you're 20, 50, or even 80 years old, you are designed to be strong. What you're going to learn today will surprise you. It may shock you. And it will certainly open your eyes to a completely different possibility for how you experience your life and your future. And even if you've let yourself go for years, you know, you could be in the worst shape of your life right now.

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Makes muscles structural. Well, what's interesting about, and it's so exciting to hear how passionate you are about this, because, you know, we're obviously talking about changing the way that you think about aging and understanding that getting older is inevitable. Feeling older is actually a choice. Yes. And it is a choice that you're making every day.

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based on how you take care of your muscles, how you take care of your body. And what I love about the way that you're explaining all this is because I don't really think much about my bones. Yeah, who does? I don't think about my joints unless they hurt. Yeah. And so in addition to thinking about how you age is within your control and getting frail is not inevitable. Yes.

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I can feel the fire. It's a very hopeful message. Well, I think it's a very important one because you're going to talk to us today about your experience as an orthopedic surgeon and how movement actually is medicine.

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you actually have an option to live your life in a very different way, but there's also immediate benefit because of the way the brains and bones respond and how it improves your life now.

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I want to feel great today. So where do you start? So you just mentioned deadlifting. You mentioned running on a treadmill. Neither are things that I do. So does Pilates or yoga count? Does a HIIT class count? If you're somebody like me where I work out at home, if I walk into the hotel gym, I don't know what to do. Yeah. Like I'll start that little circuit of machines.

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I'm not quite sure how to position the machine. Like where do you recommend you start if you're thinking, you know, she's right. I do need to move more. Walking, I got it. But I keep hearing about strength training and the importance of muscle mass. How do you make this simple in a world where it's easy to get overwhelmed?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you are changing the conversation about aging.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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in the world, you are getting women to think in particular very differently about their health and the unbelievable design of the human body and how you can leverage that in simple ways. And so I am so excited to unpack all of this with you. And I think maybe where we should start is what do people get wrong about aging?

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Yes.

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That sounds horrible.

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Probably not.

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Unless somebody's chasing me, I'm not running these days.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I freaking love it because there's actually a really important reason around muscle mass. Can you break down why building muscle mass is actually important for your health?

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So do your muscles behave this way no matter how old you are or what shape they're in when you start?

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So Dr. Wright, you've talked about flexibility, aerobics. You've talked about carrying, which was... Weightlifting. Carrying a load is weightlifting. Carrying a load. What's E?

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I am so excited for this conversation because already what you just said makes me think about getting older differently and it makes me think about my aging parents differently because, you know, I think we've all had that experience, whether you see your grandparents or you see your parents and you have that feeling where you're like, oh my God. Yeah. They look so old. How did that happen?

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So Dr. Wright, you just mentioned that you have this exercise routine that you prescribe. Yeah. What is it?

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I got it. Start on our knees, but we got to be able to get to 11 pushups. We have to be able to get up. Upper body strength is critical for women. Got it. So we've got walking four times a week at a brisk pace. We have 11 pushups. You got to be able to lift your body weight.

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Bones require impact, right? I've heard a lot of people say that running's bad for your joints, that weightlifting's bad for your joints. As an orthopedic surgeon, what's your opinion about this? It's bad for your joints. What does that mean?

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How did that? They seem so frail. So I love this quote of yours. We don't get old because we age. We get old because we stop moving. What does that mean?

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So it's almost like a rubber, if you've ever seen an old rubber band that gets brittle, That's like a tendon that gets brittle, right? So like stretching the rubber band actually keeps it healthy?

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One thing that I want to just reflect on, because I think it's a very empowering thing to consider.

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that we have gotten to a point in evolution or in history where so many of us are not taking care of ourselves because we're optimizing for working more or being at school more or being online more, that we're not spending time doing the things that our bodies are designed to do. And when I listen to you talk about the medicine of mobility, Or that movement is medicine.

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And then I hear you as an orthopedic surgeon and a renowned expert in longevity and in aging in a way that is vital and joyful and powerful and strong. And that that's an option for all of us. Uh-huh. What I also am hearing is that so many of us buy into the lie that getting frail and slowing down is inevitable. And then you'll take a pill.

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And then the pill is meant to address symptoms that you feel. And what I think is very exciting is putting the power back in our hands. And as you're listening to Dr. Wright, she's basically saying your body is actually designed in this extraordinary, glorious way to work for you, to make you feel better, to build muscle, to help you live a full and amazing life.

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And if you really just consider all the science that you're sharing and the common sense that we'd be built like a mushroom, If we were meant to sit and that your biggest muscles are from the belly button down and you've got legs to move them or if you're in a wheelchair and you can't move, like you've got arms to roll yourself. Absolutely.

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That when you work with the intelligent design, the intelligent design works with you. Oh my gosh, I couldn't have said it better. And so to me, that's a very inspiring thing to be told. You're not broken. You're just not using your body the way it was designed. And if everything aches and you feel like, okay, I've got all this pain, that this is something you can overcome.

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So if the person listening is thinking, okay, I get this. Like, this is exciting. And... I do have a lot of joint pain. Yeah. I do have arthritis. Yes. What do I do? Where do I start? Let's talk about arthritis.

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Can I ask a question about that though? Because I know I'm going to get a lot of questions. What does that mean? Does that mean you don't put sugar in your coffee? I don't. No, no, no. But what does it mean when you say I cut out sugar? Because I'm like, what the hell does that even mean?

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Got it. So as a doctor, when you hear somebody talking about joint pain, arthritis, chronic pain, you go inflammation. Obviously, there are those conditions that are bone-related from pounding the bones over years and that kind of stuff. Yeah, you can get arthritis at any age.

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Well, that's counterintuitive because if you have joint pain, the last thing you think you should do is actually go to the gym or build muscle and But it makes a lot of sense because so many women in particular are so focused on being thin that oftentimes that means you're trying to be thin or slender at the expense of building muscle. And that then makes you weaker.

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Does cortisone work? Oh, you know what?

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And I would imagine those platelets are better if you're following some of the advice they've been telling us all day.

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Could you speak directly to the person who's been listening to you, Dr. Wright, and thinking, I haven't taken care of myself. Like my entire life.

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I mean, is it too late for me? I would love for you to just talk directly to them.

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What is unnatural is not moving. So are you saying that one of the reasons why our parents and our grandparents and we start to age rapidly is because we're not moving.

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Well, you've done an incredible job, Dr. Wright, like really connecting the dots from this being a directive to lose weight or to look better to a just treasure that's inside your body that is waiting for you to activate it. And I think, you know, particularly for so many people

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people that listen to this show and are at stages in their life where they're either consumed by school or they're consumed by caregiving or they are going through a major change in their life or their career or what's happening in their family, that it is so easy to find yourself in these phases of your life that can last years where you just let yourself go.

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And simply being reminded that your body is designed no matter how young or old you are, no matter how out of shape or far gone you are or how much pain you may be in, your body is actually designed to move. Yeah. It is designed to respond to everything that you're prescribing to your patients and explaining to us.

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And that it's something that even just adding a walk-in every day right now will make a big difference. So if the person listening takes just one action today, Dr. Wright, based on absolutely everything that you have taught us, what is the most important thing to do?

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I absolutely agree with you. And so as you're listening to this, I want you to take the time and think of five women in your life. I don't care how old they are. I don't care how young they are. Share doctor rights information with them. Share this conversation with them. It is something that you can do that could absolutely change the trajectory of their life. What are your parting words?

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Wright. I love how you framed all this. I love how many people are going to share this. I appreciate the heart.

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And what I deeply appreciate about you and the work that you're doing and what you did today for me and the person listening is that you actually gave us a achievable roadmap to follow so that aging is inevitable, but being frail and broken and weak and putting yourself last isn't.

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And so thank you, thank you, thank you for everything. Oh, it's my pleasure. Oh my gosh. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that will change your life for the better. Thank you for taking the time to share this. with everybody in your life that you're worried about or that you would wish that they would take better care of themselves.

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I think this is life-changing information and in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, I believe in your ability to take Dr. Wright's advice and get moving.

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I believe in your ability to follow the things that she suggested today, even if it's just take me on a walk, start listening to this podcast on a walk, get moving again, and I think you will be startled by how your body is actually designed. that muscle and movement are medicine. It is designed to feel better. And when you feel better, you're going to do better. All righty.

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I will see you in a few days. I'll be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode the second you hit play. I'll see you there. You guys good to go? Yeah, we're great. Awesome. Thanks, boss. What a nice crew you have. Thank you. Oh, so everybody knows their thing.

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Or maybe you're in what you think is the best shape of your life right now. You still need to understand the specific things your body needs in order to function properly and work for you. If you're not aware of the actual functional design of your body and you're not doing some simple things that our expert is going to talk about today. you will not live a strong, long, and healthy life.

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It's just really cool to not only be able to do creative work and to be able to do something where you're learning new things, but that you also know that it's making a difference for people.

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Yes. I really cannot. I pinch myself every day. What a good job you have. I know, right? Look at us. I know. I know. It's so fun. All right. Well, are we, are you ready, Kev? Fabulous. Trace, you ready? Awesome. Oh my gosh. I am so excited. Okay. So I'm going to welcome you in. Okay. You ready? I love that. I can feel the fire. It's a very hopeful message. Boom. We got it. Yay.

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This is going to explode. I appreciate this so much. Fantastic. Good. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. We're like truffle pigs here, just rooting around until we find it, right? All right, everybody. Dr. Run! Dr. Run! Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

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This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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What I'm really excited about is we have so many conversations on this podcast that, you know, I'm 56 and I'm constantly sharing to the 20-year-olds in my life. I think this is one where if you're in your 20s or your 30s and you're listening to this, you're going to be sending this to your parents and to your aunts and your uncles as this gigantic shift around how to think about aging.

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And so, Dr. Wright, that brings me to this other question that I have. about aging shape the way that you age?

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Well, and there's so much that you're about to share and shift in terms of the way that we think about this, because... If I am reading between the lines, when you refer back to being 25, when you don't have everything figured out, it's a very challenging decade. We as a society obsess over youth. And now the medical industry is obsessed with, for women anyway, anti-aging.

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And what we're talking about today is how to use all of the research and your experience as an orthopedic surgeon and as a doctor who has been seeing patients who are in a clinical practice, how to actually change the way you think about aging so that it changes the way that you think about your health and what's possible in your life. And when should you start to think about this?

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So get ready to have a whole new way to look at the intelligent, miraculous design of your body and leverage it for the rest of your life. Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so thrilled that you're here. You know, it's always an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

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Well, I think, you know, one of the reasons why I want to talk to you is because you're an orthopedic surgeon. Yes. And in 2022, only 7.4% of orthopedic surgeons were women.

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Can you imagine? Why... Is that the case? I realize that there are bigger issues around sexism, but why is it that there are so few women that are practicing as orthopedic surgeons?

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What made you want to become an orthopedic surgeon?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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That is good work. Well, what I find interesting is that you're going to teach us about aging through the lens of being an orthopedic surgeon. But I'm also curious because I know that prior to becoming an orthopedic surgeon, your first career was as a cancer nurse. Yeah. So what was it about being a nurse treating and caring for cancer patients that that led you to want to go into orthopedics?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Look, Feel, & Stay Young Forever: #1 Orthopedic Surgeon’s Proven Protocol

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And how does all of that inform the way that you think about aging?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Create the Life You Want: Lessons From the #1 Happiness Researcher

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You do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Create the Life You Want: Lessons From the #1 Happiness Researcher

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I might just have you redo a couple of the lines. Okay. I think he got some incredible shots, but he was like right behind. Oh.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. So earlier this year, our oldest daughter Sawyer went through the single biggest heartbreaker of her life. The guy that she had been in a relationship with for two years, they broke up. And I'm going to tell you something. We were all devastated. His family was devastated. We were devastated. But they were really devastated.

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And so I want to read a section from the Let Them book because we're talking about the first step, which is just understanding love. what the breakup actually is and this first part which is processing it and so this is in the section on love i'm reading from page 283 and it's a section called surviving heartbreak i want to speak directly to you or someone you love who's going through heartbreak

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This will be one of the hardest things you ever experience. And you're gonna get through this. The worst thing someone can say to you when a relationship has just ended is that you should focus on loving yourself. That is the world's worst advice because when you're going through heartbreak, You often hate yourself. You question everything. You wonder if you'll ever find love again.

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And you want your old life back. You wish you could go back to the way things were. You want what you used to have. And it feels like your heart is shattering. Because it is. What you're feeling is grief. The life you thought you were going to live has died. And just like the experience of losing a loved one, when you go through heartbreak, you will experience all of the same stages of grief.

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And it's going to consume you for days, weeks, even months. You will think of this person nonstop. You're going to have to resist the urge all day, every day to text or call or listen to their voice memos or look at the photos or check their location or watch their online stories. And I didn't know what to do to support Sawyer.

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And so I reached out to my therapist and I write about this in the book. And so I was speaking to my therapist, Ann, about this. And this is what she explained. And this is where My entire understanding of what breakups and heartbreak really are and why it's so hard and why you need to understand that you have to give yourself space to process and that this is critical. Listen to what Ann said.

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We write about this on page 284. It hurts so deeply because everything about them is intertwined in your nervous system. They have been a part of you and you have been a part of them for a long time. It's why you can still feel their presence and you can hear their voice. You're so used to talking to them every day and so you naturally want to reach out.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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Yes, you miss them, but your nervous system also misses them and the ways in which they've become intertwined with your experience of life. This is normal. What my therapist was explaining is the neurological, psychological, physiological, and chemical aspect of what it feels like to experience heartbreak. It's the same thing as grief.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so thank you for being here. If you're brand new to the Mel Robbins Podcast, I want to welcome you. To the Mel Robbins Podcast family, you have picked a remarkable conversation to listen to. I am sure you're listening to this if you're new because somebody that you love sent this to you. And so thank you for choosing to press play.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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You have to unlearn your life with them so that you can start living your life without them. That's why you have to give yourself time to process this enormous change in your body and your mind and your spirit and your patterns. As you walk down the street or you drive in your car, you're going to imagine that they're there next to you.

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As you have a thought, you can almost hear what they would say back to you. If something good happens, you're going to feel yourself wanting to share it with them. If something changes in your family, you'll wish you could tell them. I even felt this related to you and him. And I know his parents did too.

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That as things were happening in both of our families, we were so used to like texting each other and sharing photos that I, I mean, I'm not even in a relationship with him. Like I felt bad that I felt that, but it's true. If you think about the fact that That you have to process the experience of someone no longer being part of the experience of your life.

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That context makes you think about this differently and have more compassion for yourself. And it makes you realize that you're not some weak weirdo. Your body is wired to do life with this person. And so you are learning how to not do life with this person. And that's what all of these first several painful months in the heartache is all about. Because it's not just that your heart is breaking.

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It's all these patterns in your life. It's the circuitry in your body. It's your nervous system. It's the thoughts in your mind. It's the images in your heart. It's the songs you used to listen to. I used to feel like I was hurting you if I listened to Noah Kahn, Sawyer, because he's the one that introduced me to him. And it's true. It's true that it's a process.

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When you get dressed for work, when you climb into bed at the end of the day, when you wake up alone in the morning, they're going to be the first thing on your mind.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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One of my favorite songs by John Mayer is In the Atmosphere. Living in the Atmosphere. I don't know. Is that what it's called? Yes, it is. Okay. Because you've listened to it on repeat? Yes, I know it. And it is a song about a breakup because he has this one line that haunts me where he talks about watching your life play out from pictures from afar.

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The fact that you pressed play on this particular episode tells me that you really do know that you deserve an incredible life, that you deserve to be happy, that you deserve to feel love. And the conversation today is gonna leave you empowered. It's gonna give you very specific things to do.

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And then he talks about how he goes to the city where this person is and he says, I'd die if I saw you, but I'd die if I didn't see you there. Oh my God, it just makes me cry. And Sawyer, you really worked on this part of the book in the middle of this and you write this paragraph. You'll live in the fear and in hope of bumping into them. You'll watch their life play out in pictures.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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You'll be terrified of the day that you'll learn they've met someone else. The hardest part about a breakup is that you have to go through it. There's no avoiding it. You experience it in every cell of your body because you must unlearn what it was like to be with them and learn how to live your life again without them. This is why so many of you hold on for so long.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And let them will not make this easy. Let them will not remove the pain. LetThem helps you process the reality that they're no longer there. Totally. And that brings me to this rule of thumb that my therapist, who also happens to be your therapist, we talk about her as the smartest person we've ever met. Her name is Ann Davin.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And Ann has this incredible rule of thumb that we also write about in the LetThem Theory book. And this is not easy. You're going to hate this. But here it is. No contact for 30 days. None. No contact, 30 days. And the reason why is that any contact at all, whether it's seeing a photo or but particularly their voice, she said. You cannot watch videos.

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You cannot listen to voice memos because their voice is so supercharged in terms of its coding in your body and your nervous system and your brain that the second you hear their voice, it will activate all the old patterns in your nervous system and it forces you to take a huge step back in the processing and unlearning of life with this person. Can you talk about that a little bit?

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Because you went through it and I'm going to be honest with you. When you told me that Anne said, no contact, 30 days, no photos. And I was a good mom. I went to our Aura digital frame and they got a handy feature where you can hide photos. And I remember sitting on the couch, just tearing up, hiding all the photos of the two of you so they wouldn't be on the frame in the kitchen.

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Thank you for that. You're welcome. And can you talk a little bit? Because I was thinking there, I don't know if I could go 30 days. I was like the most anxiously attached person. I would have been a stalker. I would have been that psycho girlfriend that shows up on your doorstep. I don't know that I could have gone 30 days, but you stuck to this. What was it like? And what did you do?

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This is stuff that I wish that I had known way back in the day when I've gone through breakups and heartaches. These are tools that you're going to learn based on what my daughter found incredibly helpful as she was going through the biggest heartbreak of her life earlier this year. And speaking of that, Sawyer, thank you for being here with me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And why did you do it?

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But... What was it like to hear his voice for the first time having not spoken to him for 30 days? Yeah.

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Well, let's stop there because I think we want someone else to say something to make you feel better. And that's why we seek closure. But what... Closure actually means now that we're defining a breakup and this 30-day rule as giving yourself this space to start processing the separation in your nervous system and the grieving that you need to do.

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Of course. And, you know, thank you for doing this because you're a private person and this was a extremely painful experience for you to go through this breakup. And I just really appreciate you being willing to come on and talk about not the details of the breakup, but how the breakup impacted you.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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I think no one else can ever give you closure. And here's the other point I'm going to say, because I know somebody is listening to us right now and go, oh, no, no, no. When he told me he was in love with somebody else and was cheating, that closed the door. Well, what it actually did was force you to process it.

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Because you knew then there was no going back and it was you holding out hope and you checking in and you having this relationship alive in your mind that didn't allow for the closure. You didn't actually process because you didn't follow this rule of absolutely no contact for 30 days.

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You know, this feels like a really good point to take a quick pause and hear a word from our sponsors, because I really want you to just settle in. what we just shared with you. Because I think we all have that past relationship, that if we could go back in time, we'd do it differently.

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And for me, what's helped me a lot so that I don't just wallow in shame and beat the hell out of myself is to really look for the lesson and the fact that had I known this, had I had this breakup guide, had I had these tools, I wouldn't have acted like that. I didn't know. And so in the famous words of Maya Angelou, now that you know better, you can do better.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And by sharing this with you as you're listening, I hope we save you the heartache that we have caused ourselves and other people unnecessarily. And that you don't have to do that because you now know.

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And if you share this with someone in your life, you actually save them from causing themselves or other people the headache and heartache that they will otherwise go through because they don't know. And that's how we help each other through this thing called life. Alrighty, don't go anywhere because we've got so much more to share with you. And we'll be waiting for you after this short break.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. And today I'm here with my daughter and we are sharing the Breakup Survival Guide. And we were just talking about this huge topic of your nervous system and unlearning and the toxic patterns that you get into, whether it's

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thinking about the fantasy in your mind or the way you keep latching on to other people or going back to them or torturing yourself or stalking them legally, I'm talking like the social media stuff here, and how you shouldn't and you don't have to do that.

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That this toolkit and everything we're teaching you is gonna make you wiser and more self-aware so you can support yourself and choose a different response.

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I would also love for you to just talk a little bit, Sawyer, about the difference between taking the 30 days of no contact and truly separating versus what you did throughout college back and forth with somebody that you never truly separated from. Because it wasn't just on your side or his side. It was that both of you wouldn't move on.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And do you think if there had been, if you had followed what you're about to talk about now, that processing and forced separation would have allowed you to move forward and not be in a dynamic that wasn't healthy for either one of you for all those years?

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And we're going to cover a lot today, and so I just want to start by saying, whether you are listening to us right now, and you're in the middle of the tsunami, you just found out that the person that you love is cheating, it's over. Somebody pulled you aside, relationship's over. You've had the conversation about commitment or taking the relationship to the next level, they don't want it.

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And him over you too.

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Makes a lot of sense. And, you know, we've talked about the 30-day rule, and I'm glad you keep coming to the nervous system because here's what I also want to highlight. It's normal to wanna reach out because you're used to reaching out. It's normal to wanna text their parents because you're used to it. It's normal to wanna send the meme. It doesn't mean you're meant to be together.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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Those are impulses and signaling and habits in your nervous system. That is not a sign from God that this is your person. And when you understand that it's just like any other form of withdrawal, you're going to feel it. And the work here is to notice it.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And I'm hoping that when you, whether it's you in the breakup or you supporting someone, understand that this is an unlearning, that you can give space and compassion to the impulse without acting on it. And that's where the let them theory comes in, because you've got to say let them. Let them leave, let them break up, and then you move to the second part, let me.

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Let me keep my promise to myself, no contact 30 days. Let me take a breath here and remind myself that I promised myself that I would have no contact. Let me take a breath and send this meme to my sister or my mom. Let me take a breath and drive down a different road instead of driving down their road. Let me support myself through this 30 days.

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And I'm going to keep reading from the Let Them Theory book. This is page 285. This is the hard part. And you're going to be in the thick of it for at least three months. We gave you the 30-day rule from our therapist, which is about the processing that you need. But I want you to really understand whether you're in it or supporting someone else through it.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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This is at least three months of not going, you gotta love yourself, push through it, put yourself out there. Why you moping around the house, okay? And why am I saying three months? Because that's how long the research says it takes to grieve a breakup before you start to feel better.

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Now, I don't know about you, but if I know it's going to be three months before I start to feel better, I now have a mile marker that I can look out to and say, all right, I'm going to be processing for three months. Here's what the research says. By the 11-week mark, 71% of people feel better. 71% of people.

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And I'm offering that as a benchmark to give you some comfort that yes, it will get better. And it may get better in 11 days. Like no contact for you might be like, okay, I've unlearned that and I don't miss it. Let's go. Okay. And it might take 11 weeks for you to go, I actually feel better and I'm going to be okay. And it might take you a little longer, but it will get better.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And the let them theory is going to help you move through this and learn from it because you're going to keep going. Let them. Let them. Let them date other people. Let them hook up with other people. Let them break up with me. Let them not reach out. Let them... Look like they're having fun on social media. Let them look like their life's a party.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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Let them date somebody who's really wealthy and now they're going on trips that we could never do. And I'm sitting here alone in my parents' basement. Like, let them, let them, let them. No contact for 30 days. Three months to process this. 11 weeks you'll start to feel better. And here's the other thing I want you to know. All this sadness... is a mentally healthy response to heartbreak.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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And when you're ready, there are a couple things that based on the research Sawyer and I are going to teach you, just six simple things that you can do that are proven to help you move through this processing part in a more powerful, productive, and supportive way.

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Things that help you with the processing, things that help you move forward, things that help you connect with yourself and remind you of who you are. So when you reached out to him, did you guys get back together? No. And after you spoke, because you have had the 30 day break of zero contact, I mean, no photos, no nothing, no social, no nothing.

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To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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You might be going through a divorce or you're in this stage where you just keep dating people over and over and over and now you don't want to date again. This conversation is for you. This conversation is also for you if you are watching someone that you love go through heartbreak or breakup.

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how did you feel even though that conversation didn't result in a, I miss you. Let's get back together. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. It was like, thanks. Bye.

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And I want to start by saying that I am not going to tell you to love yourself because that's the last freaking thing you want to hear right now. And it's the world's worst advice. Why is that the worst advice, Sawyer?

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And even that, like... So you still, even though you accepted the breakup, you had not accepted the fact that at the end of the aisle... he would not be there.

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That when your children are born, they would not be with him. I did not accept that.

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And so... I kept saying to you, if he wanted to, he would. Yeah. And he's not. And you have to let them. And you have to move on. And just to widen this out a little bit, I've got friends in my life, I'm realizing as you're sharing that the sadness was an anchor and you refused to let go of it because it kept you tied to him, who have been divorced for years.

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And yes, they share custody, which is a whole nother complicated ball of wax, but they hold on to so much anger And it's as if that anger means they're still married to them. The anger keeps them in a relationship with them and they refuse to give it up.

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and refuse to accept that this person not only has left you, they've divorced you, they have met someone else, they do not like you, and yet you are still unwilling to go through what we've talked about in the first part of this conversation, which is the processing and the unlearning and the letting go of any hope or any fantasy and learning how to live without them. And when you do that,

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and you do it for real, what you have access to is peace and power. Because I know a lot of you may be like, oh, but my ex is a jerk. Let them send crazy texts. Let them not parent how you want. Let them marry someone you hate. Let them. You've moved on. You're no longer anchored to them. You just are sharing children with them. Let them and focus on the let me part.

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I'm building a life without you. So I don't need to worry about managing you. I need to worry about the safety and the happiness of my children, but I'm not holding onto this anger because the anger is tied to this isn't fair and it's not just, and I can do something about it and you can't. That's really insightful.

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And it was one of the hardest experiences I've gone through as a parent. To watch my child mourn and experience heartbreak, I really didn't know how to support her. And I wouldn't have been able to talk about this with you months ago because I want to respect her privacy and his privacy. And we were just in it. But it's seven months later. And Sawyer and I have dug into this.

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Again, the fantasy.

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Which is, again, why this is a huge part of the Let Them Theory book, because the inability to accept reality and the inability to process what just happened and learn a new way to go through life is what's going to keep you trapped.

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this feels like a good time to just take a beat and let everything that we're sharing with you settle in and we have so many more tools to share and a little later you're going to hear questions from three listeners that are so spot on and i can't wait for you to hear the advice that i have for them so much more to come so stay with us we'll be waiting for you after a short break Welcome back.

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It's your friend Mel Robbins. Thank you for sharing this with people that you love. I am here teaching you this breakup survival guide with our daughter Sawyer. So one of the things that I wanted to share, because these were six things that you found to be extremely helpful as you process a breakup. So remember, 30 days, no contact.

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11-week rule is based on research where the majority of people start to feel a little better. But there are a couple things that really help that are things you can do right now. And the first one is something we've talked about, but it's like remove everything in your environment that triggers you to think about them.

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remove their photos, get them out of the digital frames, put pause on the playlist that you used to listen to all the time. If they have clothing or trinkets, just put them in a box and put it away. I'm not talking about taking it out to the front lawn and igniting it on fire or taking it to the dump and throwing it away. Just remove it.

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And if you can't remove it, ask your parents or your roommate or somebody else to do it for you because they'll be more ruthless than you will because you'll be like, oh, I'll just keep this little thing and it won't really matter. And the reason why this is important is because of what we've talked about with processing. Any physical reminder of them fires up your nervous system.

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It is a reminder. And so keep remembering this is grieving a person who's still here who has basically died in your life. There will come a time where you feel strong enough to go get the box and to either look through it and think about the good times or to pack up some of the stuff that was meaningful to them and send it back to them with a nice note.

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But you don't have to worry about that right now. Right now, you're in the three months, so let's remove all the triggers. The second thing, and I think this is really good advice, give your bedroom a makeover. And you don't have to have a lot of money to do this. Buy a can of paint and paint a wall. Move your bed to a different place.

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go down to the outlet store and buy a set of sheets or a new blanket. Do something that signals that this is a new chapter because I guarantee you, you spent a lot of time in your bedroom with this person. So it's like ground zero for feeling traumatized and sad and depressed. Do you want to say something about that?

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And if you're supporting somebody, this is one of those things where you can help by helping provide an environment for change. So you could say, how would you feel about giving your bedroom a makeover?

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Like instead of taking your friend out for drinks and covering the barbell, take them to a store and buy them a new blanket for their bedroom or that sticky wallpaper that could give their room a makeover. The third thing is that since you're unlearning life with this person that you just went through a breakup with, there's a big hole to fill.

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So reach out proactively and let people know what is happening. Your roommates, your siblings, your coworkers, your parents, you're not a loser. And tell people for the next three months, will you check in on me? Will you invite me to do things so I don't die like a mole in my bedroom crying under the sheets down here like a nocturnal animal? We've all been through it.

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But if you have people that understand that you just need help getting out of the house, you need help getting out to dinner, you need help getting to an exercise class, that is something that I think makes a big difference because even the act of doing it is a sign to yourself that you're moving on.

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And for those of you like me supporting, just ping those friends of yours, not right after the breakup, but seven weeks after the breakup. Want to go to a yoga class? want to go away for the weekend and my folks invite it, we can go to my parents' house, it goes a long way.

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Another one that you talked a lot about and you write about in the book, Zoe, is fill your calendar. And you basically just said, just look in your area, right? whether it's a city or rural area, for events near me. And then ask friends to go with you because if you don't have anything to look forward to, you're going to feel like a depressed loser.

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If you have a calendar of things where you're going to go visit a friend or you're going to go to this exhibit or you're going to go take this class, you start to step back into life.

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Another thing that we write about is picking a challenge you've always wanted to do. Whether that is climbing a mountain, training for a triathlon, taking a class, learning guitar, going on a trip. Like there's something that you didn't have time to do when you were in a relationship. So let's assume that you're going to be in a loving and amazing relationship very soon.

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I would love for you to speak directly to the person listening. And in particular, I want you to remember what it felt like seven months ago when the breakup hit.

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What is it that you would like to do now that you didn't have time for? Now that you see that, wow, I am learning how to live without this person. I got a lot of extra time. Why don't I fill it with something that I didn't have time to do before? And it gives you purpose that is beyond that person you're getting over. And the final thing, and I love this. You found this question, Sawyer.

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Keep asking yourself this question. If you knew the love of your life was around the corner and this breakup was bringing you one step closer to meeting them, how would you spend your nights and weekends while you're single? I love that question too. Why do you love that question? Because you're like, we have to put this in this book. This is so important.

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That's incredible.

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It's absolutely true. And what's interesting is that...

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I know that nobody wants to hear that you gotta learn how to love yourself, but the fact is, and this is almost entirely what the Let Them Theory is about, it's about learning how to stop chasing other people and seeking validation from other people and controlling other people and seeking love from other people and learning instead how to start by giving it to yourself.

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and you are now single and you were staring down an entire summer with canceled plans and the person that you love moving on, if the person who's in the middle of that devastated, if they take everything to heart that we are about to share today,

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And I know it's a cliche to say that you're the only person that you're going to spend your whole life with, but it's also the reality. And whatever it is that you're afraid of or scared of that you think only someone else can give you, whether it's acceptance, approval, fun, companionship, love, the fact is, if you give it to yourself, it opens the door for someone amazing to step into your life.

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I know that we have a couple questions from listeners on this topic, and let's take the first one from Gabrielle.

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It's a phenomenal question. And the first thing that comes to mind is that when you say what if, you're not in a dating relationship, you're in a throuple. Because you're there with the other person and this third thing that is the fantasy and the possibility and it's almost like being in a triangle. Imagine being on a date with your critical mother.

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And you're talking to your date and then you turn to your mother and she's like, well, what if he's not a good man? Well, what if this? That's what you're doing when you allow that thinking pattern to enter your mind. If you are going to say, what if? I invite you instead to say, what if this all works out? What if this person is leading me one step closer to a relationship that I deserve?

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What if this person isn't quite right, but maybe they're somebody that's just like a slow simmer? They're going to open up and open up. What if the purpose of dating right now is not for me to find someone, but to actually find myself and create a deeper connection with who I am and what I like and what I don't like?

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And I'm the kind of person that figures that out by being in situations where I don't like what's happening. And so I think that your purpose for dating right now is not to find the one, it's to find yourself and to figure out what you want and what matters to you and what doesn't matter to you. And what comes to mind is I want you to keep in mind this kind of 80-20 rule.

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I've talked about this before, which is... Focus on the 80% that matters. Is this person kind? Do they make you laugh? Do you feel like yourself? How do you feel when you hang out with them? Do they care about you? Do they prioritize you? Those are the things that matter. Do you have the same goals and aspirations in life? Do you see eye to eye on the deeply important things? That's the 80%.

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That throuple and the critical what if, that third party in your relationship, that's the 20%. That's the fantasy. That's the fear. That's all the stuff that you're focused on that actually doesn't matter. The only thing that matters, and I think it'll really help you to go, for the next year, I'm not dating to find the one. I'm dating to learn more about myself.

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and all of the little tools and the framework that we're gonna give you for how we want you to look at this moment in your life, what could they expect to change if they put this to use?

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And I'm going to meet a bunch of awesome people along the way. And eventually, one person at a time, the right person for me is going to show up.

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Totally agree with you. Here's the thing. I'm so pragmatic that I know that saying all those things doesn't serve you, even though it's completely valid to feel those things. And what you're feeling is a healthy and normal response to losing something you cared about. And one thing that might help you is really unpack what was it about the thing that you lost that that really is important to you.

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Because sometimes it's only when something's gone that you actually appreciate what it was. Totally. And there's something about what you lost, something deeper, that you really value. And maybe what you value is just this feeling of safety that you felt with this person that had been in your life a long time.

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That's very different than feeling like, okay, I just don't really connect with this person. Because you're not going to immediately. But what you're looking for is a feeling of safety and a feeling of trust and deep connection. It's not the person, it's how the person made you feel. And that's what you're trying to discover when you focus on the 80%. Great. That's what I want to hear.

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Okay, great. Let's roll the next question from a listener named Una.

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Fabulous question. And I think very common. And the first thing I'm going to say is you need to follow the advice of this episode, because if you're dating to get over someone, you're not going to find the right person. And I wonder if you really let what we've shared today sink in. Did you process this? Have you grieved it?

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Or are you going through life knowing, okay, I've accepted the breakup, but I have a fantasy that I'm going to walk into a restaurant one of these days and they're going to be there and it's going to be instant and we're going to be right back in it. And if you haven't given up on that fantasy yet, you need to let them. And you have to truly do the work to accept that this is over.

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They are not coming back. And until you do that, I don't think you're going to be interested in dating. Because what I hear in this question is you don't want to date. And that's okay, too.

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You know, one of the things that I think happens after a breakup is if you haven't given yourself the true time to process and mourn this and truly let them and accept that this is over and get the fantasy out of your mind... you will always and forever have their ghost in your relationship now. That's number one. Number two, it is okay to not be out there dating.

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In fact, there's a lot of people that feel this way. And here's what I want you to know. You don't have to be dating to meet somebody. There are people all around you. There are people at work, there are people at the spot you buy lunch, and simply being out and about in the world as yourself and happy, and if you're the kind of person that's just open, you will be very surprised.

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It's in these moments in life where you're not looking that the person that's meant for you starts showing up. I met my husband right after a breakup, and I'd swore to my girlfriends, I'm swearing off dating for the rest of my life. I'm never dating again. And then boom, a month later, He was behind me in line at a bar. And that was that.

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And I think it's also important to understand that we have this fantasy of chasing the spark. And if you are somebody that's trying to date to get over someone, what are you looking for? You're looking for a spark. You're looking for fire to fill up the hole that's inside you. And some of the best relationships, in fact, only 11% of relationships began with a spark.

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The rest of them are slow birds. It's the person that grew on you over time at work. It's the person that was a friend of a friend that you kept seeing at a party. It's the person that lived down the hall or that you kept seeing in the stairwell. It's the person that grew on you over time. And so be very careful of trying to date to get over someone because you're looking for something big.

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Spark is attraction. Our relationship is about compatibility and commitment and mutual support and kindness. And in the modern world, you hear the word love and you think it means chemistry. You think it means this grand thing. Love is two things. It's consideration and it is admiration. Consideration just means you have someone in mind. Consideration is bringing somebody a cup of coffee.

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That's an act of love. Admiration is when you look at somebody and you see attributes of this person that you admire. And that's why the spark and instant thing is about attraction. But true love is about admiration and consideration, and that grows over time.

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Bless you. I have been there.

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Let them. Tim, your life is not going to begin until you let her live hers. She's gone. And the reason why you're living for her and you're posting for her and you're thinking about her is because you have not actually grieved this relationship.

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And the more you think about her and the more you navigate your life based on how she would react or how it would impact her, the more you are holding yourself hostage to a relationship that's over. You have to let her leave. And you have to accept reality that this is over. And that's really hard to do.

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And I would recommend you go back to the beginning and you re-listen to this and you go through the 30 days and you unfollow her on social and you remove all the things from your... or your house, that you drive in different patterns, that you start to step into and learn how to live life without her. Because that's the piece of this breakup survival guide that you haven't done.

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And it's only when you allow yourself to process the reality of what's happened that you'll stop giving your power to somebody who doesn't deserve it. And you'll take it back and you'll learn how to create a life without her and a life where you are happy. The sad thing about hearing this is that you can't see it yet.

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But in listening to your question, there are now millions of people listening that see you in a jail cell that you locked yourself into. The good news is you hold the key. She's gone. you're not getting married, but you have your whole life ahead of you. And I would focus on the things that this taught you. I would move through the 30 days and remove all reminders of her.

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And I would allow you to truly grieve this because you're still living as if she's here and she's not. Here's the choice. You can live the rest of your life in this mental and emotional jail. Or you can use the keys that we've given you. And you can use the let them theory. And you can let her go and set yourself free. You have a huge, beautiful, amazing future ahead of you.

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And I want to ask you a question. If you knew that the love of your life Somebody that just filled you up and made you laugh and made you feel so happy and seen and supported. Somebody that was going to grow through life with you was just around the corner. You're about to walk into a room 75, 175 days from now, and there they are. How would you be living your life right now?

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I'll tell you something, you wouldn't be wasting a damn second of it worrying about the woman who already left. The greatest love of your life is on the road ahead, and it's your responsibility to start walking toward them. And, you know, I just want to say, this is hard. You know, I can sit here in my chair with my mic talking to Sawyer seven months after she's through it,

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Seven months ago, this was like a emotional blizzard in this house. It was war zone. It really was. Everyone had to survive. And you can survive. And it does get better. And you're stronger than this moment. And the more you realize that every single ending is also a beginning, it really is. And the fastest way for you to move through a breakup is to truly understand what it is.

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And learning that this is really the process of teaching your body how to go through life without somebody that used to be in it. It's grief. It's learning new patterns. And there is a period of withdrawal, but all those emotions you feel are normal. It doesn't mean this was your person. It doesn't mean you should get back together. And it doesn't mean you won't get back together at some point.

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But your job right now is to use all the tools and it begins with first understanding the process of what a breakup is and the 30-day no contact rule and the research that says it takes three months before it starts to get better and the six things that you can do immediately to support yourself to go through something you don't want to go through. I get it.

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But the only choice you have is to go through it. That's why it's hard. If you're sad, be sad. If you want to snot cry and lay on the floor of a gym, do it. If you want to emotionally eat your way through the next three months, go for it.

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Do whatever you need to do to process this because it is painful to go through life with somebody and then suddenly have to learn how to not go through life with them. And I'm going to give you that. And I'm also going to tell you this. It's going to get better. And you are going to meet somebody amazing. Because somebody else in your life isn't the reason why you deserve love.

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You deserve love simply because you're alive. And I know you don't want to hear that you got to love yourself. So I'm not going to tell you to. You can hate yourself right now. That might be part of your process. But remember, in three months' time, when you use these tools, and most importantly, I think my biggest takeaway is it's the fantasy in your mind that is killing you.

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You gotta learn how to let them go and let me step into reality. And the reality is you have the ability to move through this, you have the ability to feel these emotions, and by the time you lock up in a couple months, you're gonna feel stronger, you're gonna feel better, and you're gonna realize, wow, I'm going to be okay because you are.

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And you know, on that topic of consideration and admiration, I just want to tell you, Soy, how much I admire you.

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I learned a lot about myself through the process of learning how to better support you through that breakup and to step back. and give you the space to feel what you needed to feel even though with every cell of my body, I just wanted to jump in and fix it. I wanted to text his mom. I wanted to text him.

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I wanted to somehow arrange something so that this could all just go away and everybody could be like, okay. And you really taught me how important it is to stand by somebody's side instead of stepping in and trying to make it go away.

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But I loved being there to put my arms around you. I love you.

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And thank you to our three amazing listeners who submitted those awesome questions. And keep them coming. Just go to melrobbins.com slash podcast if there's something you're struggling with or a question that you have and you could hear yourself on an episode coming soon. And for you listening, there's something I want to say to you. You're not going to go through this alone. I love you.

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I'm not breaking up with you. Like, I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to be here several days a week, put my arm around you and support you. And Sawyer is here occasionally when I drag her on this show. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. I really do.

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And if you use the let them theory and all of the tools and research we just walked you through, there is no doubt in my mind, you will not only create a better life, but your love story is far from over. In fact, the greatest love of your life is on the road ahead. Alrighty, I'll see you in the very next episode. How you doing, Soy? Wonderful. Okay, not like that.

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All right, we good? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great, okay. Great, great, great, great. Great, great, great, great. That's awesome.

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What the hell happened? It's right in your lap. Is that better? Like that? I think I'm going to be better.

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I don't smell them. Awesome. Okay. Great coaching. Amazing. You did amazing. We did amazing. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, hold the phone. That's a huge, huge takeaway. So one of the first things to understand is the difference between processing a breakup and then what you do to support yourself or someone you love as they move through a breakup and start to build a life without this person. Because that's what you're doing. And I think that is a genius distinction.

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Because we collapse the two into one, which is why the advice sucks. The advice pushed through it. Get on a revenge diet.

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Another horrendous thing to do, by the way, because a revenge diet is all about you getting in better shape and taking better care of yourself and looking better because you're taking better care of yourself to get back at someone else, which basically means you're still attached to this person that dumped you.

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So the motivation is tied to this person who's no longer in your life, which by the way, keeps them in your life. If you wanna get healthy, if you wanna prioritize yourself, which you should, do it for you. But don't you dare do it as a revenge diet.

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And we've done the research and reflected on her experience and my experience. And I am so excited to be able to tell you that we have put together the official Mel Robbins podcast breakup survival guide that is going to help you move through heartache. And it's going to help you support people that you love who are going through a breakup.

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That's gonna backfire because it keeps this relationship and this person in your life when if you're in a breakup, you gotta move on and build a life without them.

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Everything. What are the ways in which you kept your boyfriend front and center in your mind? And I'm talking after you broke up because I want you to normalize because we're going to break our conversation today into two huge revolutionary epiphanies. The first one is to teach you what it means to process a breakup.

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And we're not going to just talk about it on like terms that you can all relate to. We're going to dive deep into what's actually happening in your body. Because processing a breakup is a neurological, physiological, and chemical process where you unlearn the patterns of your life.

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Because when you're in a relationship, you become intertwined neurologically, physiologically, and psychologically with the other person. So you're going to have to process the untangling and deprogramming of having this person in your life day to day. And it's why Everybody who gets broken up with does whatever they can to keep the person front and center in their mind because you're used to it.

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You're intertwined. So what are some of the things that you would do every day that kept your boyfriend like right there on your mind and kept you in the middle of the breakup instead of truly processing it through your body, mind and spirit?

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Because the fact is, as painful as these experiences are, you can move through it. And on the other side of it is an unbelievably powerful, wiser, and more loving version of you. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so thrilled that you're here. I have been wanting to talk about heartbreak and breakup with you for a long time, and today is the day.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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There was a very interesting twist on all this because as you were going through this, and I would go from watching you wear pajamas for five days in a row and never changing, and you're clearly in a depressive state, And then I would think you were okay because you were going to go exercise. And then I'd walk to where you were exercising. You're on the floor crying. And I just wanted to fix it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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I just wanted it to be okay. I had so much anxiety and discomfort watching you go through heartbreak. That I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to say it. And to put an even bigger twist on this, Sawyer and I at the time were working on researching the section of the Let Them Theory book all about love and breakups. And here she was going through the biggest breakup of her life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

To Anyone Going Through a Breakup: How to Heal a Broken Heart & Move On

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Do you want to hear something really ironic?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Hey, it's your buddy Mel, and you know, I just had to get on the mic today and respond to what I'm seeing in the inbox and the comments online, because there's a lot going on in the world right now. I mean, more than ever, it kind of feels that there's just so much that's not fair.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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because it doesn't have to. What I'm recommending is something else. I'm recommending that you give yourself permission, and you also set this date so you know this chapter ends, this scene is gonna be over, the movie is gonna go on, and you are going to be okay, that there is an end to this. But while we're in it, let's be in it. Let's play the sad songs. Let's be in a depressive state.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Let's live in our pajamas. Let's cry. Let's wallow. Give yourself permission, if you have to, to scream into that pillow. It's not fair. Do what you need to do to feel the emotions and let them come and let them go because I promise you that deadline's going to come. And if you gave yourself this space and this grace, you, my friend, are going to be in a very different place.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And if you're brand new, I just wanted to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm absolutely thrilled that you're here. And because you hit play and you made the time to listen to this particular episode, it tells me something about you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And by the way, I've been talking about these big, heartbreaking, gut-wrenching things, but let's talk about some of the stuff that we tend to beat ourselves up over that aren't fair, that you've been doing for years and years and years, like you beat yourself up over your height or your body or the way your face looks or your complexion.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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You've already been grieving the state of things for years. You've already made yourself feel bad and put yourself down and been invalidating yourself. So if the unfair thing is something that you've been living with for a long time, your friend Mel Robbins has a recommendation. How about the deadline be 5 p.m. today?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Because the wallowing has been going on for long enough and it is time to move on. And the wallowing we know is no longer helping you change this situation. It's not making a positive dent in the situation. It just makes you feel bad. It's chipped away at your confidence. It's made you feel disempowered. And the deadline I want you to give yourself is tonight at 5 p.m.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Because this scene in the movie, it's over and we're going to move on. And that brings me to step number two, which may seem simple. In fact, it might even seem a little stupid or obvious, but it's the most crucial. And a lot of people miss it because if you don't do this step, you will never be able to move forward and you're going to get trapped in the scene.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And it's this, you have to accept what has happened. You need to accept reality. And you may be thinking right now, wait a minute, Mel. I mean, I just did. Weren't you and I just shouting, life isn't fair? Yeah, we were. But you're probably still deep down wishing things were different. See, when you wish things were different, you're resisting reality.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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It's one thing to accept the fact life isn't fair. This is cruel. I don't deserve this. It's a whole nother ballgame to accept that this is what has happened and it's not changing. And the longer that you hold on to the wish that this didn't happen or that things were different or that somehow the situation wasn't what it was or you weren't in the position that you're in,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I know you're the type of person, you value your time, and you've made the time to listen to this because you're looking to feel a little bit better right now. And I'm gonna tell you, today's conversation, and by the time that you're done listening to this, it is the perfect thing for you to listen to at this exact moment in time and you will feel better.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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The longer you hold on to this wish, the longer you prolong your own suffering. I mean, most of human suffering, our internal pain, our anguish, it comes from the desire to have things be different than how they are.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I mean, this is philosophies that date back into the beginning of human history, whether it's stoicism or Buddhism, this notion of learning how to accept the things you cannot control. You know, there's one quote I love from the poet Rumi. Try not to resist the changes that come your way. Instead, let life live through you. Honestly, that's the let them part of my theory.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Let them is when you accept things as they are and as they're not. Let them is when you let life live through you. And to me, what that means is that life is always teaching you something. Life is always moving forward, even when you refuse to. Let's take a quick pause and hear a word from our sponsors.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And while you're listening, share this with somebody because it could truly change the course of their life. And don't go anywhere because we've got so much more to discuss after this short break. So stay with me. Welcome back. I am so glad you're still here with me. This is such an important topic. Thank you for sharing this message with the people that you care about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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We've been talking about the steps that you can take in those moments where life feels overwhelming. And the next thing I want to share with you is sometimes the most important lessons from life come in the cruelest ways and the deepest wisdom. comes through the most painful experiences.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I mean, for myself, I can look back and say, certainly about my life, that it's always in those moments that I got the worst news, that I've ultimately discovered the best things about myself. Now, I didn't want to have to learn them that way, but it's true.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And somehow learning how to accept a new reality, you're going to discover something that life is going to move through you because the truth is you're already in the new reality. The relationship is over. The house is burned down. The person's gone. The diagnosis is here. The acne is on your face. You've been laid off again. Cancer is back. Your bank account, it's still in the red.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Wishing it were different doesn't make it different. It just makes the present moment more painful and you feel all this tension because you're just resisting it. You gotta learn how to let it move through you. And look, I'm not saying this is easy. I mean, when life hands you a poop sandwich, you feel like you're supposed to choke it down. Well, here's what I think this poem means.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Let life move through you. It's sort of peaceful, isn't it? You can feel yourself drop the resistance because what that line is actually saying is that when life hands you a poop sandwich, You don't have to shove it down your throat. You could just put it down on the plate beside you and move on. Yes, it's there and life just served it up to you, but you don't have to carry it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Because based on what I'm seeing in the inbox, the headlines, the news, and the DMs that you are sending me from all over the world, I just felt in my heart that today we had to have a conversation. I need to be honest with you about something. And it's something that people don't like to talk about, but we need to. Life isn't fair. There, I said it. Life isn't fair, especially right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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You can accept that life just handed you this poop sandwich and now you're sitting right next to it and this is the scene of your life. But it's only until you can do that and truly allow it to move through you that your life will start to move forward too. So how do you move on?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Well, that brings me to the next step, which is asking yourself, as I'm sitting here next to this poop sandwich, what is in my control and what is not in my control? And When you're feeling really upset about where you're at, it feels like everything's out of your control. And these next two steps are going to put a spotlight on all of the amazing things that are actually in your control.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And so let's talk about them one by one. The first one is making a plan. And the second thing that's in your control is finding meaning.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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One of the things that's so challenging about being in a situation where life is really unfair is that you can get yourself so paralyzed in your mind by how unfair and overwhelming it all seems that you blind yourself to the fact that there's almost always something you can do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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In almost any situation, if you're sitting there next to a shit sandwich, there is something you can do through your actions to actually make the situation better. Whether you've lost your job, you can find a new one. If you're in the red, I've been there, you can learn the skills of how you actually become more responsible with money and you can start to chip away at your debt.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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In fact, there is so much information out in the world today that you are fully equipped in this super amazing way to simply go to the internet and don't type in life isn't fair. I want you to type in the situation that you're in. The cancer just came back. My marriage just ended. And then ask, what should I do? And you want to know what's going to come up?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Like a bazillion videos and podcast episodes and books and blog articles all about people who have been in this situation sitting next to this shit sandwich who figured it out. And by watching those videos and by reading those articles and checking out those books at the library or hopping onto YouTube, you can make a plan. And here's one more hack that I think is absolutely incredible.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Go to ChatGPT. And literally right in there, act like the world's best life coach and tell me exactly what I should do if I'm in a situation where X, Y, Z happened and I feel it's very unfair and I feel hopeless and powerless. Tell me exactly what to do. Create a plan every day for the next 30 days and give me the five things I need to do every day in order to change this situation.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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ChatGPP will spit out your plan in a nanosecond, and you want to know what? It's going to work. And one of the reasons why I'm telling you this is because it is very dangerous to allow yourself to stay in that state next to that shit sandwich, convincing yourself you have no choice but to eat it. It's not true. There is almost always a plan that you can make 99.9% of the time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And I am 1000% convinced because of the work that I do and because of how many people I interact with every single day, I am 1000% convinced there is a person in this world that has been in a situation and even been in a situation way worse who has figured it out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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They have made a plan and through their actions and their attitude and the space and time they gave themselves to process their emotions and accept the reality and let life move through them, they have made the situation better. And that means so can you. I refuse to believe that you are not capable of meeting this moment in your life. In fact, I believe the opposite.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I believe you have within you the ability and the capacity to make this situation better, to make yourself better. There is something you can do. There always is something that you can do. And I also gave you this beautiful hack using ChatGPT for free to give yourself a plan and empower yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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But what I've noticed over time, and this really troubles me, is that it's not your capacity and your capability that is stopping you. It's your attitude. See, if you allow yourself to get into the hole of despair, you won't do anything. Because when you have despair...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I mean, so much of life right now feels backwards or wrong and out of control, overwhelming. It's not fair that you lost your house or that your dad died.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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and you continue to tell yourself that you're never going to get out of this or nothing's going to ever make a dent or this is just too big and too much, you lose hope. And without the hope that things are going to change, you don't do the little things that I'm sharing with you right now that actually do change your life and this situation for the better. That's why this matters.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And so the third step is as you're sitting there and you've shouted, life isn't fair. And then you've accepted that life has handed you this poop sandwich. And now you've put it down on the plate And you say, let them. I'm going to let life move through me. This is what life has handed me. I am not going to choke it down. I'm going to put it there and see it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I'm going to recognize that this worst experience is going to bring out some of the best things in me. I'm going to trust in that. Now I'm going to make a plan because I do see that there is something that I can do. And I'm going to use ChatGPT to do all the work for me because I am going to do the work following the plan. So I don't need to come up with a plan. I mean, that is so cool.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Do you know how much luckier you and I are than people 10 years ago that we can do this? We can empower ourselves this way. But I want to leave you with a fourth step because this is going to really fuel your ability to move forward. And this fourth step is find meaning. In these moments where life is unfair or things seem out of control or cruel, I want to remind you of a truth about life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And that is the power of your attitude. That is always in your control. And whenever I'm in a situation where I just feel like things are so unfair or I start to doubt my ability to meet the moment that I'm in, I think about a book. that has had probably the single biggest difference in my life, and it's a book you may be familiar with. It's Man's Search for Meaning.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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or that the polar ice caps are melting, or that big tech is now suddenly taking over the world, or that corporations get bailed out left and right and don't seem to pay taxes, but you can barely pay yours, or that you were born diabetic, or that you're the one who is always caring for your aging parents or your young kids and you're doing it alone.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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The author is Viktor Frankl, and Frankl was a psychiatrist who endured one of the cruelest and most traumatic and horrific situations a human being could ever experience In the 1930s, Frankl was cast into the Nazi network of concentration and extermination camps. He went to four of them. And miraculously, he survived.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And in the book, he details the accounts of his survival and how he did it and how he kept himself alive and he kept hope alive by summoning up thoughts of his wife and the prospect that he might see her again, that they would be reunited. I mean, the scenes where he's explaining this are just riveting. And he would also keep hope alive by dreaming that at one point,

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Way after the war, he would be lecturing about the psychological lessons to be learned from Auschwitz. Well, his wife, his family members, they did not survive. but he did. And when he was freed, he wrote Man's Search for Meaning, which is one of the most important books in my life, and arguably one of the greatest books of all time.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And the copy that I'm holding in my hand right now, it says that more than 15 million copies of it are in print, and this copy of mine is pretty old, so I would imagine there's millions more in copy right now. Now, the biggest impact that this book has had on me is perhaps Frankl's most important insight after this horrific experience.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And it's this, that there are always going to be forces beyond your control that can take away everything from you, except for your ability to choose how you want to respond to the situation. See, you're not in control of what happens to you in life, but you can always control what you feel, do, think, say about what happens to you. This is what we've been talking about with let them and let me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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It's not a new idea, but it is a life-changing idea. And I want to read to you one of my favorite quotes from this book. Everything can be taken from a man, but one thing. the last of the human freedoms, to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances. And he goes on to write, when we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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That is where your power is. No matter how unfair life may seem, no matter how cruel or overwhelming the situation may be, You have the power because you can change yourself. You are free to choose your attitude in any given set of circumstances. And you are also free to choose what you do or don't do in response. And so no matter what you're facing, I need you to hear this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And that's just the big stuff about life that's not fair. It's also not fair that your skin is breaking out or that your sister looks like a supermodel or that your parents favor your brother or that your friend is pregnant and you just had another miscarriage or that the housing market is so insane that you can't find a house or an apartment to buy and you can't afford one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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The four steps that we talked about, the first one is life isn't fair. Say it out loud. Set a deadline and give yourself the space and the grace to feel what you need to feel. Second, accept that this is what your life is. Try not to resist the changes that come your way. Instead, let life live through you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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In the Mel Robbins world, that means when life hands you a poop sandwich, don't choke it down. Let it go right back down on the plate. Third, there's always something that you can do because you can choose how you respond to this. And so the third thing that you're going to do is you're going to make a plan. And I gave you the perfect, modern, amazing hack to be able to do it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Just go to the computer, go to Google, go to chat GDP, put in the prompt, tell them what's not fair. ask them to give you a 30-day step-by-step, day-by-day plan of what you need to do, boom, you got your plan. And based on the research that you learned about from UC Irvine, we know that these are the steps that work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And finally, this fourth step, don't forget that when you are no longer able to change the situation, and I'm gonna remind you, 99.9% of the situations you're in, you absolutely, through your actions and that plan, you can change it for the better. But if you're not able to change a situation, you are challenged to change yourselves. And in any situation, it is your attitude. That is your power.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And that's what you get to choose. And I also want to remind you that that matters. Because when you have an attitude of hope, when you can see beyond the deadline, beyond the scene of your life, you are now anchoring on a better future. And you know that taking the actions and changing your attitude and following these steps matter. Because this is not how the movie ends.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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It is just one scene in your absolutely amazing, magnificent, and yet sometimes cruel and unfair life. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. And I believe in you. And I'm proud of you for hitting play on this episode. I'm proud of you for recognizing that while you may be here, you're not staying here because you're not meant to stay here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And there's no doubt in my mind that everything that you learn is going to help you create a better life. Now go do it. And just know that your friend Mel is going to be waiting for you to welcome you back the second you hit play on the very next episode. And I'll see you there.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Okay. Oh, it's going to feel so good.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And, you know, it's kind of liberating, isn't it? To just say the truth out loud. It's not fair. So for whatever it is that you feel is cruel or it's unfair or you don't deserve it, I want to validate that because ignoring it isn't working. Feeling bad about it isn't working. I mean, letting it paralyze you or make you anxious or demoralize you, is that working? Of course not.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Oh, my God. Let me just take a sip. I'm sorry, guys. Great. Thanks, guys. Wish me luck. I'm terrified. Okay. Wait, hold on. And we had, okay, great. Great job. Sorry that was so like, but that I would have been way better prepared had we not been number one. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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I just want to call it out. I want to validate it. In fact, why don't you say it with me? Scream it if you want. Life isn't fair. And it's important to say it because it is the truth. So let's acknowledge the truth. But here's another truth that we need to acknowledge.

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It's always going to be unfair because there are always going to be things that are out of your control and there are going to be things that happen that are cruel and painful and heartbreaking. They're going to happen to you, but they're not going to happen to the person standing next to you. Yes, Things are going to be out of your control. But here's the thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Whether your house just burned down, or your health insurance claim got denied, or you were rejected from your dream school, you're worried about politics, or maybe you got screwed over in the divorce, companies laying people off and outsourcing all these jobs to AI, I'm here to tell you, it's true. Life isn't fair. You're right.

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I am not going to allow you or me to get stuck in this place. And I'm not saying your feelings aren't valid. I'm not saying that this situation isn't really difficult. I'm not saying that it's not valid to feel overwhelmed or scared or this sense of like, why me? Why is this happening to me?

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To feel this weight of the loss that you're dealing with for what you thought your life would be and now you're like waking up in this nightmare. Because there is a time and it is important to allow yourself to feel what you need to feel, whether that is feeling sorry for yourself.

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or whether it's allowing yourself to be in a depressive or a disempowered state because you're moving through grief or heartbreak. And yes, there is a lot of value in complaining, inventing, and just really saturating yourself in this and talking about it. But I'm going to tell you, this is just one stop on the leg of the journey called life. This is not where you stop.

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This moment where things are not fair, this is just a scene in your life. It's not how the movie ends because it's not where you live. And today, I'm going to remind you of another fact, an important fact, a powerful fact, a fact that is so much more powerful than life is unfair. Because the fact is that no matter what is happening around you, you have the power within you to face it.

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Because you have limitless ability and you have this capacity to accept the things that you cannot change, to recognize that there are aspects of life that are always gonna be unfair and aspects of life that seem fair, but that through your attitude and your actions, your response, that you can move the needle on this situation, that you can make the situation a little better.

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You can move things forward because validating your experience, very important, very, very important. And that's why I'm validating it, but I'm also reminding you, yes, you can make your life, this situation, and the world around you a little better place. So if any of what I'm saying is resonating, if you're currently in a situation that simply is cruel or unfair,

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like you're being bullied by your narcissistic ex in a divorce, or your house was burnt down, or it was taken out by a flood, and you're still waiting for the power to come back on, your health insurance claim was denied, your rent was increased, you're a dreamer, you could be deported, or you got that flat on the way to work this morning, you're right. Life isn't fair.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Let's say it together one more time. Let's get it out of us. You ready? Let's do it. Life isn't fair. God, it feels so good to just say it, doesn't it? So what are we gonna do about it? Well, I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna do about it. I am gonna walk you through four things that you should do right now, okay? And the first step is to give yourself a deadline.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And you may be thinking, a deadline? What is the deadline for? Great question. You are going to give yourself a deadline for how long you're going to allow yourself to stay in this sad and overwhelmed, grieving and disempowered state. And here's why.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And since I'm seeing so many of you write in and you're experiencing situations in your life that just feel so unfair, I wanted to address it today because the worst thing that you could do is succumb to despair. I do not want you to consume yourself with worry and then start to get yourself feeling paralyzed and powerless because you're not.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Yes, it's important for you to not only call out this situation and say, this isn't fair, but it is more important that you recognize that you deserve and need time to process your feelings about the situation. And by setting a deadline for how long you are going to allow yourself

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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to move through your feelings, that you're gonna give yourself the grace of just being low, of being sad, of feeling disempowered. You know what you're doing? You're doing something that is so important. You're acknowledging that you deserve to be in this state. We're going to go through more steps that you need to follow after a short break.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And while you're listening to our sponsors, every single person that I know and you know really could use these steps and this message right now. So be generous and share it with them. And don't go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. I'm so glad you're still here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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It is so important to talk about those moments where life is unfair. And you're probably going through one like that right now because life does seem unfair. But there are things you can do. And so let's get back into what you can do about it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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I love this step of giving yourself a deadline and creating the space and the grace that you need to be able to process what you're feeling is because it reminds me of this powerful research from the amazing Dr. Lisa DeMore. She's a clinical psychologist, New York Times bestselling author, and she said something to me once that altered the way that I look at life. She said that

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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In life, when you're going through a really difficult situation, if you feel sad or overwhelmed or depressed or you're grieving, that's a sign that you're mentally healthy. I mean, just stop and think about that. Isn't it a mentally healthy response to an unfair or cruel situation in life to feel depressed or overwhelmed or anxious? Of course it is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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When you lose somebody that you love, it is a mentally healthy response to be in a depressive state. It's a sign that your mind and body are working well. If you have somebody break up with you, of course you're going to be sad and overwhelmed and lost. That's a sign that everything is working as it should. It's a sign that you cared. It's a sign that you are feeling things. That's a good thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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You don't need to be scared of these emotions. You don't need to run away from them because it's a sign that you're reacting to something that's unfair or cruel in a healthy and appropriate way. As she says, do the emotions and feelings match the situation? And so if you're facing something unfair, You need time to grieve. You need time to be upset. You deserve to be angry about it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And you have to give yourself the time to feel those emotions or else you're going to be in trouble. And I'm telling you this not because this is my opinion. I'm telling you this because I found a research study and I want to share the science with you about why it's so important to give yourself this defined moment where you go, okay, I am going to allow myself to feel what I need to feel.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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After 9-11, researchers at UC Irvine did a study on how people across the United States were coping with the trauma of this mass tragedy. And they found that even six months after the attack, so many people were still experiencing heightened anxiety, post-traumatic stress symptoms. Of course they were.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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But what made a big difference, though, was how people coped with those feelings immediately after the 9-11 attack. See, the people who took active steps to manage their emotions, like seeking support, planning ways to move forward, and finding ways to process what happened, they were able to heal much faster.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Today, we're going to talk about it, and I'm going to give you four things that you can do in these moments where life is overwhelming, and honestly, it just isn't fair. You don't deserve this, but there is always something you can do. Always. It is always such an honor to spend time and to be together with you.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And that last piece, finding ways to process what happened, that's what we're doing by setting a deadline. You're actually intentionally in time saying, I have to find ways to process what happened, so I'm going to give myself this defined space to do it. And it's so important because check out what happened to the people who didn't give themselves the space and the grace to process what happened.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Well, they found the worst thing that you could do, like the worst thing was to shove the emotions down, to just try to move on. to deny yourself the time to feel the emotions, to try to distract yourself, to get back to work, to just kind of pull up your big girl panties and move on, to kind of give up.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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You want to know what happened to the people who did that, who didn't give the space to manage and process these emotions? They were still experiencing PTSD and anxiety symptoms months and years after 9-11. See, your emotions and feelings and all that stored tension, it doesn't go anywhere. If you shove it down, it just builds up.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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That's why if you're in a situation where life is unfair or something cruel has just happened or you're overwhelmed or you're just feeling like you can't catch a break, you have to give yourself time to feel what you need to feel. And that's exactly why step one is give it a deadline.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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Because it creates the space for you to do what you need to do, to not run from these emotions, but to acknowledge them. And to acknowledge them and say, wow, I'm actually mentally healthy because I'm responding to this overwhelming situation with these overwhelming feelings. And managing your emotions by seeking support, processing what happened, planning ways to move forward.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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That's what's going to allow you to move forward. Because it's not time. that actually heals. It's what you do with that time that matters. And that's what we're talking about. So let's first create the time, because I'm not just suggesting that you do it. I am telling you this is what the science and the research says, and I want you to benefit from it.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And I know you're thinking, Mel, how do I even know how long I need to give myself? Well, the answer is it depends on you. And it depends on the situation that you're in. And it depends on like the emotions that you're feeling. And I don't really care as much about how long the deadline needs to be or what the exact date is. That's not really what matters.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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What truly matters is the intentional act of acknowledging this is unfair and cruel. and then acknowledging that you have appropriate feelings, of course you would in response to this, and then acknowledging that you need the space and you need some time to allow those feelings to rise and fall, to allow yourself the time to process what you actually are going through.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And I want to give you some just kind of rules of thumb or some of the research from what the experts say. Like, for example, when I was researching the let them theory and I was talking to a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists, the research shows that after somebody breaks up with you, it takes people about 11 weeks before they start feeling better.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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And we also know that grief after you lose somebody that you love or you lose the home, you know, that you have lived in forever, that it can take anywhere from six months to two years before you can start to settle into a new normal. And the advice that I've always heard after somebody that you love dies is make no changes for one year. Now, these are just rules of thumb.

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When Nothing Seems to Be Going Your Way, Here’s Exactly What to Do

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These are what the experts and the research sort of advise for the kinds of situations that feel so unfair and that can feel cruel. And yeah, it may take you a little longer than 11 weeks. It might take you a little less, but you need to give yourself a date. And the other thing that I love about setting a date is that it's a sign to you in a calendar that this is not gonna take over your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Okay, I just finished a conversation with acclaimed Harvard Business School professor Allison Woodbrooks, and all I'm going to say is, wow. If you or someone that you love wants to make more money, land a promotion or a raise, find your dream job, or simply be more confident and influential at work or in life, congratulations.

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I just want to make sure I got this straight because I feel a little bad because I was out to dinner last night, believe it or not. I mean, I love how the universe works. And the person that was waiting on our table came up and it turns out that they're a huge fan of this podcast. And it was really cool. And I said, oh, well, what topic would you want me to cover?

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And I kid you not, she said, I'm the manager at this restaurant and next week I'm going in and I'm asking for a raise. And I think I gave her the wrong advice. What'd you tell her?

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Well, the first thing I said to her is I said, the one thing I don't want you to do is do not look at Glassdoor and do not find every other salary range in your area and then assume that your boss should pay you that because that doesn't feel like you telling me that you're irreplaceable. That feels like an ultimatum.

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And when somebody does that to me, it makes me go, okay, well, if you'd like to get paid that at a different restaurant, go get that job.

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And I then said to her, what I would do is I would look back through your calendar and your photographs and jog your memory and try to come up with a list of all of the problems you solve. All of the things that you do that your boss does not realize that you do. Come up with the number of different jobs that you do.

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And then also come up with the reasoning behind why you want to grow in this role and why that's important to you. But I didn't say, I want you to first stop and put yourself in your boss's shoes. What does your boss need in an incredible manager? What makes you irreplaceable? And I think that's something that nobody is talking about. Yeah.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So you would have that conversation before you actually have the one where you're truly asking for the promotion or the raise. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Who knew that the Harvard Business School professor who teaches the course in the science of communication and negotiation would give us unbelievably amazing advice? No, I'm not kidding because it's kind of one of those steps that's so obvious that you miss it. Because the truth is anybody that works for me that makes my job easier, you're invaluable.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Anybody that solves problems before they become a problem for me, you're invaluable. You get in early, you stay late, you're invaluable.

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I think most of us do the opposite. I have certainly been guilty when I have been an employee and I make a lousy employee because I watch what's happening in the company. And then I go, oh, they're successful. Therefore, I deserve more. Therefore, I am owed more. And then I start to feel entitled. And then I rehearse my little script.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And if you're brand new, I just want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And because you hit play on this episode and you found the time to listen to this, here's what I know about you. You're not only the kind of person that values your time, but you have a lot of ambition and you're looking for ways to advance your career and you're in the right place.

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And then I go in with my hands on my hips and my case that I'm going to make. And then it's like denied.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And that step of going, have I even sat with my boss and asked, what would make your life easier? What would make me irreplaceable? What are you looking for me to do that I'm not doing? What are the things that I do that you actually value? What is a total waste of time?

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You know, Professor Brooks, that right there, is worth a million dollars and let me tell you why because typically when you see somebody who is performing at work or they are excelling at work or they are hitting their numbers or whatever you tend to see that example and then you either invalidate yourself or you go only playing cameras and what you're saying is no no no no there are skills

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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There are habits, there are patterns of behavior that this person engages in. How about you operate for a couple weeks and you just mirror what that person is doing? Because that person is demonstrating the behavior and the communication style and the work style that actually wins in this organization.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Wow. You know, I could see how this also plays out in personal relationships. And I'm going to just take a small tangent because I want to just put my arm around the person to make you understand that what we're actually talking about is influence. Your ability to influence other people's behavior to your benefit.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so, you know, an example that comes to mind immediately that I realized I completely screwed up is the negotiating with my husband for how we're going to spend our holidays. His family, my family. And I think we all can think of situations where we get highly charged and then we march in and demand what we want instead of stopping to think, okay, well, what does my partner care about?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What does this roommate care about? And doing that homework, Professor Brooks, To force yourself out of your point of view and go, well, what might that person care about and how can I start the negotiation? Really being interested in what that person cares about instead of jamming my opinion like a poop sandwich down their throat for them to choke down.

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No, like I can see the mistakes that I've made. Professor Brooks, I want to hit the pause button real quick so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And while you take a listen to our sponsors, I want you to share this conversation with somebody because the information that Professor Brooks is sharing will absolutely help whomever listens to this catapult their career. We all deserve that.

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Your ambition might mean that you want to make more money or land your dream job or just get the recognition and respect that you deserve at work. Well, this conversation today is a must-listen for you and for everyone that you care about because there are specific things that you can do based on the research to get what you deserve at work and in life.

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Don't go anywhere. There is so much more she's going to share with us after this short break. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And today you and I are getting to spend time together with Harvard Business School Professor Allison Wood Brooks and your distilling for us, Professor Brooks, some of the key takeaways from the most popular classes at Harvard Business School that you teach. And so where I want to go next is what are the mistakes that people make? when they go in and they're asking for more money or a promotion.

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How does knowing what somebody else needs help me get what I want?

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Well, then how the hell am I going to know what my boss needs?

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Well, you've also just signaled that you're now wanting to succeed and that you're not going to waste time guessing.

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That you're willing to align and be flexible to cause more value for us.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So I think most of us probably wait until our annual or mid-year review to do this, but when is the best time?

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Everything that you're about to learn today comes from 15 years of research from Harvard Business School professor, Alison Wood Brooks. She also has a brand new book, Talk, which is all about the science of communication. And it summarizes one of the most popular courses at HBS that she created and teaches.

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Well, and the more you do that, the more you're in a dialogue where it's pretty clear you're a valuable contributor.

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So let's say you're a shift worker, right? One of my daughters works at a restaurant. And let's just say she wants better shifts. Mm-hmm. How do you use this strategy to try to negotiate without being very direct around getting better shifts? And I'm not saying for the record that my daughter wants better shifts.

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I'm just using it as an example because somebody might listen to this at the restaurant. Yes, exactly. But as a former waitress and bartender, I know when the schedule comes out and you're like, oh, another crappy shift.

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Oh.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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To earn that spot. Yes. What can I do to earn it? You know what I love about this is that oftentimes, and I'll speak as an employer and as a parent, Kids are constantly negotiating. Oftentimes, it feels a little bit like me against you. Yeah. And what I love about this strategy, Professor Brooks, is that all of a sudden you, in a very sneaky way, you made me with you. Yeah.

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And so there was nothing adversarial. There was nothing confrontational. It's not like you're making me wrong because I didn't put you on the great Saturday night shift. You're basically saying, what do I need to do to put myself in a position to be considered, which then allows me to be with you. Yeah. versus against you.

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Now, Professor Brooks took time to come over from her Harvard Business School classroom over across the river in Cambridge to be here in our Boston studios for one reason. She's doing it for you. Now, to put this in context, if you were to even get into Harvard Business School, I know I probably couldn't, it would cost you over $100,000 a year to attend.

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I feel like my husband has taken your negotiation and your science of communication course because he constantly, when I start to get agitated about something, he'll be like, Mel, I'm not against you. We need to work on this thing together, which gets me out of that... like adversarial thing.

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And I think we do feel that way, particularly at work, because money, livelihood, a sense of feeling good about yourself and that you're progressing, that you start to get really nervous about it.

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Well, I think that's important because a lot of us have adversarial relationships with our boss or with our business partners. And we think they're against us. And it's a huge shift. And again, I'm going to remind you as you're listening, she's not making this up. I mean, this is what they're teaching at Harvard Business School. in the renowned course on negotiation.

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And this is what you are summarizing in your best-selling book, Talk, which is based on you teaching one of the most popular classes at Harvard Business School. Learning how to communicate and negotiate effectively is a important skill that helps you have more influence, make more money, be more effective with your family, with everybody.

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So let's say that you take this important advice and you actually have been peppering with small conversations. And you've been putting yourself in the person's shoes that you're now trying to get something from. Is there a certain time when to have the conversation if you've been having all the little conversations all along to try to understand their position?

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That sounds weak. Thank you.

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And today, you're getting the biggest takeaways distilled down for free. So if you have somebody in your life who needs to ask for a promotion, or maybe there's someone that you know that is entering what is a very tough job market right now, This conversation today and everything that Professor Brooks is about to share is going to give you a leg up and the confidence boost you need.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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And we're also going to get into some groundbreaking research that changed my life. This is research that will help you nail any interview. It'll help you navigate a difficult conversation and destroy that presentation that's coming up, no matter how nervous you may be. Buckle up because class is in session and it's going to be a masterclass at that.

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Thank you.

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Professor Allison Woodbrooks, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here today. Thank you, thank you, thank you for having me. Well, congratulations on your bestselling new book, Talk, the Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves. And I cannot wait.

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to have you teach us exactly what to do so that we can get ahead in our careers, we can land our dream jobs, we can get paid what we deserve, and we can manage the stress and anxiety that comes from all things about making money and truly negotiating better. And so I just want to start by having you tell the person who's listening about your background,

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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or somebody getting back into the workforce after taking time off having kids or caring for an aging parent, or somebody that got laid off and now their confidence has taken a hit. So you're kind of at ground zero. You know what I mean? You're like on LinkedIn, you're who can I network with? You're going and sending things to alumni from your high school and your college.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Is there something about networking that you want the person listening to really think about it differently. Because I do think when you're in that position where you don't have a job and you're like, where do I even begin? And my mom's telling me to reach out to this friend of hers that she knew five years ago and I don't even know what to say.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And you don't know, you know, because I've been there and you're just like, what the hell do I even say? Do you just come right out and say, I'm looking like, yes, yes. Professor Brooks, help me out here.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So start with the informational. Like I'm looking for something. My mom, my dad, my neighbor, my roommate said you'd be a great person to talk to.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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What would you start with?

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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the classes that you teach at Harvard Business School and why they recruited you. They recruited you to come to Harvard Business School to teach negotiation.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So if I can extrapolate that, because again, you're basically saying, just ask questions and be interested. And that's the opening for networking with somebody. Yeah. Because eventually, hopefully the person's going to come back and be like, so what did you study in school? Or what kind of thing are you looking for?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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What's a way to follow up with someone? So let's say you meet somebody at a barbecue. You end up asking a ton of questions. They're in a field that you're interested in because networking opportunities are everywhere. Everywhere. If you're willing to ask questions. But now it's time for the follow-up. How do I do that without feeling annoying or like I'm stalking somebody or I'm being like pushy?

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Totally. Totally.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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How do you answer the question, Professor Brooks? So tell me about yourself. In an interview, seriously. Oh. Because I'm always like... You mean like today, right now? I don't know. What do you want to know? My pant size? Like what I had for breakfast? I feel the same way. I feel the same way. What's a way to answer that that's memorable and... just kind of influential.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Okay, stop. I freaking love that. And we're all stealing that. I'm going to share two things about my professional life and two things about my personal life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Unless you're at an STD clinic, which would make you very like effective at counseling to people.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Seriously, because you hit play on the exact thing you need to listen to right now. Professor Brooks teaches two of the most popular courses at Harvard Business School. One is on the science of negotiation, the other one on the science of communication. The strategies and tactics that you're about to learn come from Professor Brooks' 15 years of research.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Well, let me tell you why we're all going to steal that answer of, I'm going to tell you two things about my professional life and two things that are personal. Number one, the framing immediately made you seem very smart and articulate and prepared. And the second thing that I loved about it is that if you're somebody who's nervous, it gives you a framework for you to prepare your answers.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And when you say, I'm going to do too professional and too personal, you're cuing yourself that you have these things to share. Of course. And so I think that's genius. We better all steal it. And it brings me to the next thing I wanted to ask you about, which is one of the single biggest obstacles to networking is...

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to doing well on interviews, to negotiating what happens if they do offer you the job, which we'll get to in a minute, is nerves. Like you get so nervous about screwing it up that the nerves actually hijack your performance. And you have done groundbreaking research, research that I've been citing

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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for over seven years about the physiology of nerves and a research-backed hack or reframe or whatever you want to call it, a tool that you can use in these moments where it's appropriate to feel nervous because you care, but you can't allow it to hijack your performance. That's right. It saved my career.

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It's the thing that I use to overcome stage fright and become the most book female speaker on the planet. And without this simple reframe, I never would have built the career that I have.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So could you explain to the person listening, what was the research that you did about the connection between nerves and excitement and how you can use the findings from your research in moments where you're nervous?

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Okay, so I want to put the person listening at the scene. So if you're about to walk into the interview of your life, or you're about to walk into your annual review, or you're about to walk in and give the biggest presentation of your school career or your whatever professional career...

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As you're pacing in the hallway and your armpits are like waterfalls and your heart is racing and your throat is dry and you feel the thump, thump, thump, thump, thump of your heart because you're about to go do this thing that you care about and you want to do it well, You're saying as you're pacing, don't go, calm down, calm down. It's going to be fine. You're like, no.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And let me just say, it's not just any course. This course has a wait list. I mean, students are trying to negotiate their way into this course. And before we jump into some of the research and the specific things that you're going to tell us

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So as you're pacing in the hallway and your heart is racing and your armpits are sweating and your palms are super clammy, how exactly does saying, I'm excited, I'm excited, I'm excited to give this presentation, I'm excited to ask for this raise, I'm excited to have this interview, how exactly does that work? Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Tell me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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That's amazing. And didn't you also in the research find that when you tested the reframe of saying, I'm excited, I'm excited, that people performed better?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Because they didn't derail their preparation? Because if you get yourself so worked up before a speech or an interview or a talk with your boss, all the preparation goes out the window if you stress yourself out too much by going, I'm going to blow it. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I've got butterflies. You

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to do in order to get promoted, in order to negotiate a higher salary, in order to find and land our dream jobs, and to also combat the nerves that come from negotiating and having difficult conversations at work or in our life. Can you just talk a little bit about some of the biggest takeaways that the person listening might find very surprising from the Harvard negotiation course?

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Well, you know what's also cool is that typically in those situations when we're nervous and we get the butterflies and we start to feel anxious and then you start to think about all the things that could go wrong, you think something's wrong. You're actually saying, no, no, no, no, this is a mentally healthy response to being in a situation when you care about the outcome.

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Are there any rules of thumb, Professor Brooks, where you've gone through the process of networking and getting an interview and now you've got the final interview? Is there anything that you should say at the end of the final interview that actually helps you land the job?

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Like, should you ask for it? Is there anything in the research around negotiation on this?

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So Professor Brooks, if you take into account like the decade of research that you've done on the science of conversation, teaching two of the most popular courses at Harvard Business School, what do you think

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Is the most important lesson or piece of research or behavior change that the person listening should take away of everything that you shared today that would have the biggest impact on their confidence and their ability to communicate and be influential?

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You know, maybe it's all the training as a lawyer, but I've always thought about negotiation as making a case. I know. and winning. And you just flipped it all in its head. It's actually about prioritizing the other person and figuring out what they want and then reframing what you need and want from their point of view.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Wow. It's so counterintuitive. No wonder you have to go to Harvard to learn this. I guess not, though, because you just shared it for free here on the Mel Robbins Podcast. Professor Allison Wood Brooks, the book is Talk, the Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves. Congratulations on it being a bestseller. What are your parting words?

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I love that. And the reason why I love that is because I think particularly if you're taking this advice and you're trying to apply it to creating more meaningful career,

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feeling like you're more influential, feeling like your contributions get recognized, whether it's at home or at school or in the workplace or in your business, you can get very discouraged if you get to one light bulb that doesn't light up. Yeah. And I love that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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image because if you're at a moment where you feel like you've gotten a lot of no's or closed doors, those actually are light bulbs on the string. Yeah. And your job is to just keep going to the next one and trust that eventually you're going to get to the one that shines super bright.

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Professor Alison Woodbrooks, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mel. And thank you for being here, for investing in yourself, for sharing this. I know you're going to share this with a ton of people. And I also know that everything that you learned today from all this research at Harvard Business School is going to help you be more influential.

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It's going to help you nail the interviews and do the networking because you do deserve to have a career that makes you proud of yourself. And now you got some of the tools that are going to help you go create it. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now take everything that Alison Wood Brooks taught you today and go make it happen. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode as soon as you hit play. I'll see you there. That was so good because it was so counterintuitive. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a normal Harvard professor. So if you're a shift worker, hold on a second. She's also a bestselling author, a behavioral thought.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh my God. Oh my God. Exact techniques that will help you master the art of community. After today, you're going to learn the exact techniques that can help you master the art of... Oh my God. So without further ado, please help me welcome... Oh my God. Fantastic. Okay, great. That's a wrap. This is so fun, you guys. I can't believe this is what you get to do. It's kind of crazy we get to do this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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I wanna make sure I heard you correctly because if I think about negotiating, whether it's for a higher salary or it's just trying to get the better deal at a car dealership or it is winning any kind of argument, I would think that you need to be firm and blustery and know your value and kind of have the right things to say. But if I'm hearing you correctly,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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You just said that the best negotiators based on the research are people that understand the needs of the person they're trying to get something from? Of course, yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So I want to take all of the research, And the biggest takeaways from the incredibly popular classes that you teach at Harvard, and I want to apply them to getting ahead in your career, getting a job that is your dream job, networking effectively, managing nerves when you have to have tough conversations. And I want to go through this one by one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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What is the single biggest factor that determines whether or not somebody actually gets promoted or paid more at work?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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It's what she's teaching at Harvard Business School. It's the subject of her new best-selling book, Talk. And today, well, today, she is in our Boston studios to share all of this with you and your loved ones. So whether you're about to graduate,

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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You know, that makes sense because I remember seeing somewhere this research about the single biggest factor is that determines whether or not a woman in particular gets promoted or somebody that is a minority gets promoted, and it's whether or not their contributions are known. And if you really stop and think, if you're somebody who is quiet,

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and you're hoping people know what you're doing, and you're not a good communicator because it's not a skill that you've practiced or because your nerves get the best of you, then you're leaving it to hope and chance that you're going to get recognized. Yeah. Because your contributions being known is largely determined by whether or not you can communicate effectively.

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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You know, I just had this happen because we found out that we are the number one ranked podcast in the world on Apple Podcasts. I mean, it's like I never in a million years imagined a world where I would see the Mel Robbins podcast ahead of Joe Rogan. Yeah. And It's funny because even somebody that listens to this show twice a week, every week wouldn't know that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Because you're not paying attention to the charts. That's right. It's not until I actually say that this is something that has happened that you're aware of this thing that has happened. And I almost don't want to say it because I feel like, okay, I'm bragging and then you're not going to like me and then you're going to think I'm full. What? let them. I gotta follow my own advice.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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or you're entering the workforce, or you're a shift worker, or a corporate executive, or you're just tired of having the overnight shift at the hospital, your friend Mel Robbins is going to tell you, you deserve more respect, you deserve to be paid for your contributions, and you have more influence than you think. Today, with the help of Professor Brooks, you're going to learn how to unleash it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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But what were you gonna say, Professor?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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I think a great rule of thumb is to assume that nobody at work actually knows what you're working on. That's right. Unless you are very good at communicating and you're making it known. I have a question because at Harvard Business School, y'all do a lot of research on what makes for effective CEOs and what makes for influential leaders at work. And this applies to all of us, this research.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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It's not just somebody in a company. This is about whether or not you do a good job leading a group of volunteers to do something, whether or not you're a good leader in the little league kind of system that everybody and all your friends are coaching in. Leadership is a function of your ability to influence other people.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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So when you look at the research that is done at Harvard Business School, what is the most kind of overlooked skill? of great leaders.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Well, it's true because if I think about wanting to be successful, whether it's launching a business or having a side hustle or just continuing to get promoted and feel like I'm growing at work or to land my dream job and network effectively, I'm thinking more about these things I'm supposed to do

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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But I'm not thinking a lot about the importance of mastering the skill of communication along the way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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And Professor Brooks, you've already said something twice now that I wanna highlight, that I wanna make sure that the person listening

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The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Because I know this is one of these conversations that is going to get shared, particularly probably with parents and grandparents down to, you know, nephews and nieces and sons and daughters around looking for jobs and actually being successful and influential in your career.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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You have now said twice in talking about the science and research around being effective as a leader and a communicator, that it's about helping the other person or understanding what the other person wants and that being a key component of this skill of communication. So if I take that nugget and I now say, okay, How the heck does that apply to me wanting to ask for a raise?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Like, isn't there a script that I need to follow where I march in and I'm confident and I ask for what I want and negotiate in a really powerful way and that means I'm going to get it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Most Important Career Advice You’ll Ever Hear With Harvard Business School’s #1 Professor

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Because what she's going to share with you, it's going to blow your mind and catapult you forward in your career. Because this is a free masterclass from one of the most popular professors at Harvard Business School. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here. It's always such an honor to be able to spend time with you and be together.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh my God, I just walked out of the studios here in Boston. I am so thrilled you're here. I can't wait for you to listen to this. Today's episode, it is the ultimate guide to understanding and optimizing women's hormones for better health at all ages.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay, I think I've got, and I hope as you're listening or watching, you kind of have this understanding of messengers, number one, that are delivering a particular message and that your body has receptors all over it. that are designed to receive the message from the hormone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Got it. And does the same thing happen to men if they experience low testosterone?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Gotcha.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But mostly I am just so happy you're listening today because I personally have never understood the female body. or what hormones truly are or what they do or what is actually going on in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond. And after listening today, I do and so will you. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Gotcha. Okay. So I would love to break down each time period in a person's life and kind of understand exactly what's going on with your hormones and what hormones matter the most during that period of time. What are the key hormones that you need to actually understand are important and play a role in your health?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And can we group the thyroid hormones together, or are there a bunch of them? We can. They're kind of like cousins.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay, so estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. Yeah. Now, we hear a ton about cortisol and serotonin, and that's a hormone, right? Yeah, those are hormones. Okay, and some other ones who I now can't remember. Yeah. But are they as important for understanding when it comes to women's health? Or is it important for us to just start with estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And what does metabolic mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So we're gonna shove that to the side. You can shove that to the side. And we'll stay right here with estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. Yeah. And let's start with puberty. What is going on when puberty hits for a young woman? What is the general age range at this point? And what are the roles that those three hormones play for a woman?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Is it important as a woman to understand that your entire health and the way to think about your health, you really have to embrace that the natural intelligence of your body The baseline is it is designed as a baby-making machine.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Just like, I'm just literally like, just like your tongue is designed to taste. Absolutely. Your legs are designed to move in a certain way. You're like, that you are designed to, with sort of this biological imperative. And I'm only saying that, you know what I mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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The conversation that you're about to hear is life-changing. And I want to say it's always such an honor to spend time and to be together with you. And if you're a new listener, I also want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And here's one thing I wanted to say. Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Oh, of course. Right, right. Of course.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yes. The reason why I'm kind of taking a highlighter to that is because, you know, we know that, of course, because you have a period that you have to deal with. But if you really start at a baseline and you say to yourself, okay, women are not little men, and our bodies, all the way down from chromosomes to the way our muscles are to the way the hormones work, our bodies are completely different.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And understanding that it is designed to work on this cycle and the cycle is driven by hormones is the base of all health, correct?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And not fight it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay. So before you get your period, this is going to sound like the world's dumbest questions. Do you have estrogen? Yes. You know what I'm saying? Is this stuff in your body?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So even before you have a period, you still have estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone in your system. It's that when you start getting your period, those hormones flood into the system in order to bring this developmental phase online.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So you said that the average age is getting younger and younger. And one of the reasons is the food we eat and ultra-processed foods. Yep, and cortisol as well.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Is that because cortisol confuses the kind of design of the body in terms of when it's time to bring this online or is it the food?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Gotcha.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So what are some of the issues that happen during that window? Because I can think about it seems like so many young women also now have complicated cycles, whether it's lots of cramps. And so what are the roles that estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone are playing in in that window in the teenage years up to 20?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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You're the kind of person who values information that can help you take control of your health and make you feel your absolute best every single day, no matter how old or young you may be. And if you're listening to this right now because someone in your life shared this episode with you, I just think that's really cool because here's what that means.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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If it's not even keeled, meaning a pretty regular cycle and a pretty predictable kind of route of these are the days I'm kind of moody or grumpy or whatever. These are the days I kind of get those weird cramps. But if you have an irregular period or you have heavy bleeding or you have really bad PMS, what does that tell you as a medical doctor?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Like what foods change how your hormones are?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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It means you have people in your life that care about you. They want you to be healthy and they know that understanding and knowing how to optimize your hormones, that it's critical for your overall health. That's why they sent that to you. And I think that's just really cool. that you have people in your life that care about you. So thank you for listening to this. Thank you for being here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I think it's fascinating that stress in your life and the food that you're eating impacts the hormones in your body?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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where exactly is estrogen made? You know what I'm saying? So I'm starting to think now, okay, now wait a minute. So I mean, it makes sense that if you're going through a breakup or you're, you know, a person who is subjected to chronic like bias and, you know, racism, or you're under a tremendous amount of stress because you're caring for somebody, um,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Or you're just constantly eating terrible stuff. Or I think about somebody that I love deeply who had a very big issue with an eating disorder and just destroyed their gut health. And I can't even imagine the kind of stress that they put themselves under. And I mean, of course it would impact you. When you explain it that way, Dr. Shepard, it makes a lot of sense.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But why do these things impact estrogen and progesterone and testosterone?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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It makes so much sense. And what's sad is your period gets irregular or you start having massive cramps and then you think that you need some medication and you're not looking at the underlying factors because I'd never understood that stress or eating ultra-processed food or basically starving myself to be skinny-

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I'm so excited because our guest today is going to help us do exactly that, understand our bodies, understand our hormones, and help us optimize them for better health. Dr. Jessica Shepherd is a board-certified OBGYN who specializes in women's health, sexual wellness, and menopause. Dr. Shepherd completed her medical residency at Drexel University.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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is going to, of course, impact the hormonal functioning of my body because I'm confusing it with all these things.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Why do so many women in their 20s get, quote, hormonal acne?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. Yeah. You know, I want to take a quick pause right here so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words. And I also want to give you a chance to share Dr. Jessica Shepherd with every single woman in your life. I am thinking about my two daughters in their 20s. I'm thinking about all my friends. I'm thinking about my mom. I'm going to send this with her.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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with my nieces, like literally everybody. This is going on reply all immediately. And what a gift, what a gift to empower the women in your life with this extraordinary medical information. Alrighty, don't go anywhere because Dr. Jessica Shepherd, she is just getting started. Class is gonna get back in session after this short break and we're gonna be waiting for you to welcome you in.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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We'll see you in a few minutes. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins today. You and I are learning from Dr. Jessica Shepard. Her bestselling book is called Generation M, and we are doing a deep dive into the medical and scientific research around hormones and the roles that it plays in women's health. This is such a critical topic, so I'm thrilled that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I'm thrilled that we're learning together. So Dr. Shepard, Can you speak to a person listening in their 20s or 30s who comes off birth control and then has a lot of issues after? What do you want them to know?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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She also completed a fellowship in minimally invasive gynecological surgery at the University of Louisville, where she also earned her MBA. Dr. Shepard also served as the director of minimally invasive gynecological surgery at the University of Illinois at Chicago before leaving to practice at Baylor University, where she is still affiliated today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So what might somebody expect? And what would you say, Dr. Shepard, is a good amount of time to give your body to like, ah, okay, what's happening here?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay. And it's interesting because I think about the fact that so many young women go on birth control. Right. And you do it for a number of medical reasons, which I am in full support of. But is there anything that we should be aware of if you have been on the pill for Or you're taking one of the coded IUDs for two decades of your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And then all of a sudden you're like, okay, let's like stop taking the pill. Let's take out the IUD. And you've been doing this hormone suppression for 15 or 20 years.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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She sits on the advisory boards for Women's Health Magazine, womenshealth.org, and the Society for Women's Health Research, and is the chief medical officer at the healthcare company, HERS. Dr. Shepard is also the author of the bestselling book, Generation M, Living Well in Perimenopause and Menopause. So please help me welcome Dr. Jessica Shepard to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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It feels like it's wrong when there's literally like a dust ball on the drain.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So is every single function in a woman's body impacted by estrogen?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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It's true, because I think about estrogen and I'm like, well, it's just talking to my ovaries. Like, what are you talking about?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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This conversation is so important, whether you're in high school, you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, or beyond, because women's health is hormone health. So if you're tired, bloated, gaining weight in places you never used to, if you're struggling with thinning hair or acne, brain fog, low sex drive, mood swings, PMS, painful periods,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What is... A few places in a woman's body that somebody might be surprised to hear has estrogen as a very critical piece of how that part of your body functions.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, that's also what we hear about PMS.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So is PMS like a mini drop in estrogen in your body?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wait, hold on. You see the most diagnoses of anxiety and depression in women between the ages of 45 and 55? Absolutely. Why, Dr. Shepard?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Dr. Jessica Shepard, I am so excited to meet you. Thank you for hopping on a plane. Thank you for making the time. I cannot wait to have this conversation with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Of course. Absolutely. Because you can't solve the problem if you don't know what the problem is. You can't. And if you are starting to experience higher states of anxiety or you're feeling depressed and you're not looking at the correlation,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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With your age and understanding that by 45, a lot of the estrogen is gone and your body's going through major changes which impact your brain, which literally can be the cause of this happening.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, it kind of is because you are out of the body you have been living in for the last 40-some years because the hormones are radically changing. And so your body's probably like, what the hell is going on? Can you explain...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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how estrogen starts to decline in your late 20s and kind of what are the big general age markers, Dr. Shepard, for when you got 100% of this, if things are working well and you're not eating too much processed food and you're managing your stress okay and you're taking care of yourself, which a lot of us don't, let's just assume that you're kind of like the one that's doing it right on the planet.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What age... Dr. Shepherd, you start to see estrogen decline or progesterone or testosterone in women.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Oh, because estrogen starts to fall off a cliff. Is that right? Does testosterone and progesterone also change in a woman's body at the age of 35?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What is that awful term that we use?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. So at 35, do you know the percentage roughly of how much estrogen kind of functioning is left?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, it's actually a very big slice of life. And it's an aspect of life that a lot of us don't understand. And so I cannot wait to learn from you. And where I want to start is I'd love to have you speak directly to the person who is with us right now. who has made the time to learn from you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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is much more than in your 30s and then after 35 it does take a drop then again at 40 and 42 is usually when we start to see another decline wow yeah well it's it's so helpful to understand this against the backdrop of from an evolutionary perspective what a woman's body is actually designed to do from you know like a physical and biological standpoint

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And when you look at it that lens and you understand, you know, I was researching something else and was kind of gobsmacked to consider that 50 years ago, the life expectancy was in our 50s. And we've gained 30 to 40 more years in the last five to six decades based on

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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This is so important to understand because I think what we do as women is we throw our hands in the air and say, well, there's nothing. Why is this happening? All this stuff. But when you look at it across the historical perspective and the fairly recent... life expectancy jump.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. It's almost like, you know, if you have a car and you don't have any gas in it, how is it going to work for you for the next 20 months? You just got to keep driving it, Mel. Just keep driving. Just hit the gas harder and stop complaining and it'll work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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You know, I have never heard it put that way before. I feel like I'm starting to understand this topic at a completely different level. I'm just so grateful that you are here with us today. I have so many more questions, but I want to give our sponsors a chance to share a few words. And I also want to give you a moment to be able to share this with women in your life that you care about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And can you tell them what might be different about their life or the life of a woman that they love if they really take to heart everything you're about to teach us and share with us today and they apply it to their life? What could change?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And don't go anywhere because we have so much more to learn from the amazing Dr. Jessica Shepard when we return after the short break. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are getting to spend time with the extraordinary Dr. Jessica Shepard. The bestselling book is Generation M, and we're talking all things hormone. I feel smarter. Don't you feel smarter?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I'm so proud of us for learning about this. So Dr. Shepard, is there things that you can do in your 30s and 40s to slow the breakdown of this hormone decline? There is not.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Like what?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Do women that have children after 35 tend to enter perimenopause or menopause earlier?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So we've covered what happens at 35, 40, and 42. Let's talk about perimenopause. Medically speaking, Dr. Shepard, what does that word mean? And what is the kind of typical age range of women that covers?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What are the symptoms of perimenopause and what physical changes happen when you are in that zone that I'm just going to put a big hoop here, like 35 to 50-ish, like this could be the zone that you're in.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Or the car that you've been driving is starting to sputter. It's sputtering.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Why... do we gain weight in the middle? Like, why do we get the back fat and the fanny pack in the front and all the things that you've been doing? And all the things that you're not asking for, quite frankly. Yeah, and like the flappy ass arms, like you don't have those, but like I would have like these meat wings. It didn't matter how often I was doing triceps. It didn't, it still doesn't work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But what, what,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Because there's estrogen in every part of the body.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So you have estrogen receptors in your triceps and in your- In your fat cells and in your muscle. Yeah, but there's certain fat cells. Like I think everybody listening can go, yes, Mel, it's true. There's certain areas. It's like every pair of pants. Fits different. So that's the migration. Didn't fit. It's literally, I'm like, what happened? I feel like a Twinkie on legs here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Like I just like- It migrates.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Is it because as the estrogen declines, your reproductive center is like sucking it all up and then everybody else is starving for it in your body?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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There's a lot of guys that are because of the testosterone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And when your muscles are getting estrogen, your muscles stay strong.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. So how does... Keep going. I'm sorry. No, think of a pie graph. Jesus. Okay, go ahead.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I know.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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You know what's crazy about this is that when you go through it, you literally, like what I'm getting from this conversation is that the composition of the body itself is changing. Absolutely. Because the hormones have changed. So literally, I love that image of a pie chart because if you think of a whole pie,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And if for a lot of your life as a woman, the majority of it was kind of muscle mass, but then as estrogen declines, that freaking wedge starts to get smaller and smaller. Yeah. And now fat's there and you didn't do anything different. You didn't do anything different.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. And what I'm excited about to learn from you, Dr. Shepard, is oftentimes when you realize you don't feel how you want to feel or you're not where you want to be in your life in terms of your relationship to your health or how you feel or your energy or all aspects of your life, right, that you're not quite sure what the problem is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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It is not fair. Do something. You know what?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Ask. Is anybody researching whether or not it's possible to have women continue to have a period Like for the rest of their life. I love this question. Most women are like, I don't want to have a period for the rest of my life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But I literally am like, if I will have no brain fog and I'll keep my muscles and there's no flesh fanny pack down there and I'm not an irritable bitch, I would take a period.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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right? We talked about that gap. Your own estrogen versus hormone replacement therapy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Have they done any studies? And I realize hormone replacement therapy had a had issues because if I understand it correctly, when it first came out, there was like a bunch of junk science that has been disproven that scared people. And now all of those old claims have been basically refuted. And so for the vast majority of women, it is a extraordinarily safe and life-changing medical option.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And for women who have a certain risk of cancer or a certain health history, it is not an option. But given the kind of limited scope of wide range use, has there been any research that suggests that women that are candidates for hormone replacement therapy and who do take it have lower risks of dementia and osteoporosis and heart disease?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But hold on, let me ask a question. So if we know though that when there is a complete drop off of estrogen, that it spikes a woman's risk for osteoporosis. It doesn't take somebody, like no offense to people who are just wildly brilliant like you are, but common sense, it tells you. Clearly there's a connection because we don't see women in their 30s getting osteoporosis.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And so I think today is going to be life-changing because you're about to teach us about our bodies and about hormones and the vital and transformative role that they can play. So let's start with just talking about what made you interested in medicine and women's health.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Absolutely, which is why I think that's where we need to challenge. I'm like, why on earth wouldn't you immediately put somebody on estrogen if they're a candidate for it? if they are starting to decline in bone. That just seems like stupidity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Let's talk about dementia. What does the research say about the impact of hormone replacement therapy, giving women estrogen, and the outcomes with dementia?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Can you share just the data on HRT? Because when you're in perimenopause, are you a candidate for HRT?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So not all breast cancers are the same. Correct. And just because you've had breast cancer doesn't mean you're automatically not a candidate for HRT.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Gotcha. So based on your personal history, and there's a narrow window of women who have a particular type of personal breast cancer that may make them not a candidate, or if you've had a certain type of pulmonary embolism, that you're not a candidate in those cases because the introduction of hormone might stimulate that condition coming back. Yeah. Got it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So for a clot, you may get another one and for breast cancer may cause recurrence. Got it. Yeah. Okay. But even, because I think there's also this widespread belief that if you've had any breast cancer history or if you've yourself have had breast cancer, automatically you can't do it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, if you've already pushed through that window, so you have not had a period for years and you've just muscled your way through this, you're driving that car down the road, no gas in the tank, pedal to the metal, you're exhausted all the time. What might happen if you introduce hormone replacement therapy now?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Really?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Or I'm even thinking the 60-year-old or the 62-year-old who was like, oh, well, you know, it was still taboo and it's too late for me now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But it might have a preventative effect. It might. It might also get rid of the brain fog. Yeah. It might help you sleep better. Let me give you an example.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. I think I hear... Somebody hitting share right now and sending this to their mother and to their aunt and to so many women who honestly, like, were not served the medical care that they deserve.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Right.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Right. And maybe you are a candidate. Right. And maybe you could feel better. Yeah. And wouldn't that be absolutely incredible? Yeah. Wow. You know, what are other tools in addition to hormone replacement therapy that women need to understand?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What is a vasomotor? Hot flashes and night sweats.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay, so my husband's like, you just soak the sheets. I'm like, I'm having my vasomotor. Yeah, absolutely.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So there's no way to actually naturally recreate estrogen by lifting weights or taking supplements or doing that kind of thing?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And how did being a surgeon... impact you and lead you to where you are now and the philosophy that you have about medicine and women's health.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

4642.436

Oh, so I see. So the exercise and the stress reduction and the change in the diet forces your body to make new connections and workarounds in the place of the role that estrogen played.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So we're using our body. Yeah. So if you exercise and you get that incredible flood of neurochemicals, I think they call it, after you go for a walk or after you lift weights or after you do that yoga class, that works its magic in your brain and helps a little bit with the brain fog.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Dr. Shepherd, could you talk to us about sleeping? Every one of my friends is having trouble sleeping. Every woman I know in their 40s or 50s, and I have a particular person that I love who has what she calls her little helper, her Advil PM. I'm like, you've got to stop taking that. She's like, but I'm taking my melatonin, I'm taking my progesterone, and I got my cooling sheets.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I still can't sleep. What is going on with hormones and sleep?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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If they're disrupted- And cortisol is highly impacted by your lifestyle and the stress factors.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So what do we do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What should we do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Our expert today is going to tell you this is not how it needs to be. And there is so much you need to understand and that you can do. Today, you're going to learn the signs of hormone imbalance and how to fix it at any age. You'll also learn the surprising ways that hormone imbalance screws up your skin, messes with your weight, disrupts your sleep, and so much more.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

4904.47

I'm just kidding. It's true, though. And it's not fair. No, it's true. If you want to get a good night's sleep, don't even have a glass of water. You know, one of the things, though, is do you believe as a medical doctor that you can, through some of these lifestyle changes—

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Boundaries with your phone, not even having your phone in your bedroom, having more of a set schedule, all the stuff that experts recommend, mindfulness. Do you believe you can train yourself to be a better sleeper if you get serious about it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Let's talk about the thyroid. It seems like a lot of people talk about having a thyroid issue.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5032.2

So the thyroid... which is basically setting the pace it's either going too slow hypo or too fast hyper that it impacts hormones because it impacts the rate of release right the rate of release and how quickly things are should be going or how slow they should be going gotcha

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5077.517

If you have a problem with your thyroid, how would you know it, first of all?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5086.059

Okay, so that's like a blood test?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5139.502

You know, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about a few health conditions that women see and have you, Dr. Shepard, help us understand them. One is PCOS. Can you talk to us about what that is?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But do you typically treat it by birth control?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Oh, that's so cool.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5281.921

Wow. So GLP-1s are a medical tool to help balance hormone and regulate hormones?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5324.585

Let's talk about endometriosis. Yes. What is it and what are signs that you may be at risk for it or that you have it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, what I'm excited about is that, you know, you mentioned pregnancy. Yeah. You mentioned doing all these surgeries. If you really think about it, and in the foreword of your book, Dr. Jennifer Ashton writes about the fact that for most women, the first time we truly get proactive about learning about our biology and our body for real

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So endometrium is the medical name for the thing that ends up on the pad? That's it. Wow. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wait, what do you mean that tissue goes somewhere else?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

5383.46

So it's almost like your lining that makes up what is your period starts to flake and float around other parts of your body?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Really? Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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How do you treat it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Definitely. Chapter nine of your bestselling book, Generation M. I love the title, Thin Skin, Thinner Hair. Let me read a little from page 169. Dry, irritated skin, bruises, breakouts, too much hair where you don't want it, your face, too little hair where you do want it, your head. These are just some of the changes fluctuating hormone levels can unleash on your appearance.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And this is no matter what age you are. And this was fascinating to read, that estrogen spurs the growth of collagen, a protein that helps support skin, muscle, and bones. It's essentially the scaffolding that holds everything up. So let's talk about the role of hormones with your skin and with your hair. Where do you want to start?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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is when we either are wanting to get pregnant or we are pregnant. And so we dive into all of it and we track what's happening in our bodies. And then even afterwards, we're tracking what's happening with our bodies as things are changing. You know, when I think about myself and when I first got my period, It sort of came and then I just had to deal. I had to figure out how to use a tampon.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Improve collagen?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Amazing. Women get marketed to like crazy. And particularly for those 20 and 30 year olds that are buying 50 products and going through a 30 step skincare routine. Dr. Shepard. Based on the research, what actually, in terms of the products, can help your skin?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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What are the top foods you should eat for good skin? Oh.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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When you start going through perimenopause or menopause, do you need to change your skincare routine as estrogen plummets? You should. Really?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I had to figure out how to navigate a swimming pool. I had to figure out like that sort of stuff. We didn't have any of the tracking tools or any of that stuff. But it is interesting. That a woman's body and health is incredibly elegant and intelligent and designed in this system, right, around the fertility cycle and the menstruation cycle.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yeah. Because it's really... It's real. It is real. And it's very disconcerting. Why does our hair thin?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So if I were to take folic acid, because you know how you take folic acid and then your nails and your skin, is that going to help me now?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So if you're in your 20s or 30s and your hair is kind of thinning, should you also be looking very seriously at hormone balance?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And do any of those products that everybody is selling, you see all of those help?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Wow. You are so brilliant and so fascinating. I have absolutely loved. I feel like I have learned so much today. I feel so empowered. I cannot wait to share this with every single woman I know, starting with my two daughters and my mother and all my good friends. What do you think, Dr. Shepard, the most important thing that you want women to understand about their hormonal health.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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If the person listening who's been with us today takes just one thing from everything you've shared and does something, what is it that you want them to do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And honestly, most of us don't understand the role that hormones play.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Dr. Shepard, what are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, Dr. Jessica Shepard, I cannot thank you enough. The bestselling book is Generation M, but What I love most about what happened today, at least for me, is the mind-body connection is a critical thing. But because of everything you shared today, I actually understand my body in a way that I've never understood it before. And for that, I am so grateful.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And I know I speak on behalf of the person who's listening and for all of the women in their life that they will be sharing this with. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for being here with us today. Thank you for being interested in your health and your happiness. Thank you for wanting to learn about this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Thank you for sharing this with all the women in your life that you care about. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to use this information today to better understand your health, to put yourself first, to know that you deserve better.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And now that you understand how hormones work and how important they are, that you use this information to improve your life and your health because you deserve that. Alrighty, I'll see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. All right, you guys tell me when you're ready. Oh, you're good? Thanks, hon. Okay, good.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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I was like, it's not going to be. Okay, does that sound right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, you did a great job. I don't think so.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yeah. I loved it. Fantastic. You know, we need to get Em in to take some photos. Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Yeah, and I'm so excited to dig into the role that hormones play in your health. And on that point about women really thinking about this, and if you are listening and you're one of the millions of guys that listen to the show, this is a really important conversation to listen to because it's going to help you understand

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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the women and young women in your life, but it's also a resource that you can send to them because women are not little men. That is what Dr. Stacey Sims loves to say. And understanding the unique physiology and biology is critical. And we're going to talk today about how Hormones impact your skin and acne and hair and thinning hair and growing hair in places that you don't want.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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You'll hear about the best foods that support hormone health, how to fix thinning hair, and everything you want to know about hormones and skin, including acne and aging, saggy skin. Our guest today is world-renowned OBGYN, Dr. Jessica Shepherd. She's here with the answers you need. And I'm telling you something, this conversation is so incredible.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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How hormones impact all kinds of health conditions. And what I find to be very exciting is that finally we're at a moment where there is a lot of attention and education around menopause. But that's like 50 years into a woman's story. Truly understanding the role that hormones play, what they are, it impacts every aspect of your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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And one other thing that you made me think about is that when I think, for example, just one human being ago, so just think about our moms. How old are you? I am 47. Okay, great. So I'm 56. If I think about our moms, they typically grew up in a generation where the messaging, at least in kind of like the 60s and 70s, was, okay, you know, you got to do it all. You got to look good.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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You got to also keep the house together. You got to be able to take care of everybody. There was zero messaging about taking care of yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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No. And in fact, if you look at any of sort of the marketing and advertising and television shows that our mothers watched, there was no one helping them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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They just had to do it all themselves. And so no wonder our moms neglected themselves. No wonder we don't really understand that putting ourselves first is really a skill that you need to learn. And society has conditioned us to think, oh, no, no, no, no. Go see a doctor when you're sick. Oh, no, no, no, no. Like I have a friend that has prolapse right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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She's like, it literally feels like, which is, I guess, what, when your uterus is falling? Yeah, when things are kind of... coming out. Things are coming. One of my relatives had it. They would literally be like, it's like walking around with half a baby coming out of you. And I'm like, you're walking around? You should go see a doctor.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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But that's taking care of self, and we're not trained to do that. And so let's just start by talking about hormones. How do you want to frame the conversation around hormones?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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So is it like a liquid? Like, what is a hormone? That is great. You know what I'm saying? Because as you're thinking messengers, I'm like, wait, is it the wiring? Is it liquid? Like, what actually is a hormone?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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As soon as I'm done talking to you, I'm sending this to my two daughters, every single one of their friends. I'm sending this to every single person in my life who is struggling to get pregnant, who's ever complained about their period. I'm gonna send this to my mom because she's gonna feel so vindicated and every one of my girlfriends. And I know you're going to too.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Well, you know, what's interesting is that, like, if you really think about the experience, whether you are male or female, is when puberty hits... The only thing that you hear from adults is, oh, hormones, all the hormones are raging. And nobody understands what it actually means or what the hormone is doing. So when you get to puberty, though, and the, quote, hormones start going crazy...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Ultimate Guide to Women’s Hormones: Use Science to Reset Your Body, Balance Mood, & Feel Amazing

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Are you not born with this level of hormones? You know what I'm saying? Like, why are hormones going crazy during puberty?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Okay, I have a confession. I just learned, I'm almost embarrassed to tell you this, that for the last 40 years of my life, I've been exercising all wrong. And I bet you or someone that you love have too.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I've just carried that over. And I also then tell myself a story that I'm going to get a cramp or I'm going to like want to throw up in my mouth if I'm doing something too much and I've had too much to eat. And so this is a completely different change. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So every woman listening and every woman in your life, if you're listening and you're male, needs to know that one of the biggest mistakes that we're making by following male-centric fitness advice is we need, as women... biologically and physiologically speaking, to actually have something to eat first thing when we get up? Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So the first change already, small change, but critical one for our biology and physiology is you need to eat something before you move or exercise in the morning. And to also, I think like the bigger thing here for me is that I'm starting to realize I've been so brainwashed about the fact that you need to be thin that it's a paradigm shift

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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to actually think, well, wait a minute, I need to learn how to work with my body and my natural wiring to make it work for me and to actually optimize the way that my body's designed as a woman.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And so she is gonna take you and me down the list of all the things that we have been told to do that are actually backfiring. That cold plunge, you and I are doing it wrong. The reps you're doing with all those weights, doing them wrong. Intermittent fasting, probably not for you. And if you, like me, have worked out on an empty stomach, you're never gonna do that again.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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You mentioned protein coffee. Yeah. Can you explain what that is and how that might satisfy the first takeaway, which is eat before you move in the morning?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Well, you've changed my life already. Yay. Because I've got two takeaways. The first one is, and I still want to stay on it so I actually understand why eating first thing before I move my body and having fuel first thing in the morning is actually super important. And I want to unpack that a little bit more, but I want to hover on the protein coffee because I'm drinking it right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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You made me one in our studios here in Boston. This is going to change my life, and here's why. I have struggled forever since I've learned, and a lot of us are learning as women, that focusing on more protein and especially getting protein first thing in the morning is super important.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And I'm always struggling with how the hell am I going to get 30 grams of protein first thing in the morning without choking down 10 egg whites? Yeah. And what do I do if I'm on the go? And what do I do if I'm tired of eggs? And what do I do if I don't have a blender near me and my stuff? What do I... And so you literally...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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You're about to learn how to get better results in less time and less effort. Working with your female body, not against it. It's time for you and me and every single woman in your life to start exercising like a woman needs to. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am absolutely thrilled that you're here. I feel so excited about what we're talking about today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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took a scoop of protein, shoved it in milk, put in espresso, stirred it up and put on ice. It tastes like a fricking milkshake. And what I love about this is that A, I can make it the night before. B, it's 30 grams of protein in a cup, which C means I could even take this on the walk with me. I could take this in the car if I'm dropping my kids off somewhere. I could make this on the road.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Like this is such an incredible tip. So thank you for that. You're welcome. What I want to do though, Dr. Sims, is you mentioned that when women wake up, our brains are different than the guys and our stress levels are higher. And it is important to understand that and to give yourself a little bit of fuel. What happens in your body

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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If you do start eating breakfast in the morning or use, because a lot of women skip it. A lot of women are now intermittent fasting. A lot of people are waiting until noon. A lot of people don't want to eat before they exercise because they don't want cramps or they like actually want to maximize calorie burn.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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But what is the benefit to a woman in particular first thing in the morning if you give yourself fuel?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Wait a minute. So not eating and not eating because you think it's going to help you lose weight actually- Counterproductive. Is counterproductive because it's signaling your body to stay in fight or flight, which makes your body hold on to fat? Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Now, does eating first thing in the morning, because you mentioned the circadian rhythm, for a woman also help you sleep better at night? Absolutely. How come?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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It is going to be liberating. It's such an honor to spend time with you, to be together with you, but especially when we're going to have a conversation that is going to light you on fire and make you feel both mad and empowered. Let's freaking go. And if you're a new listener, I want to take a moment and just welcome you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I thought it was because I had to pee. It's also because of the low blood sugar? Mm-hmm. Dr. Sinton, where the hell have you been? Like I needed you in my life like decades ago.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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This is so eyeopening. Like already you have highlighted so many differences between men and women just in the morning. just in the stress levels, just in the fuel that we need in the morning, in the muscle composition, like all of it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And it also is very illuminating because it makes a lot of sense then as to why the programs that work for Chris and seem to work like magic actually leave me frustrated and tired. Yeah. So what would be the ideal breakfast option For anyone, whether like, and let's just talk about the person who just wants to move more. They want to take better care of their body.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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They want to understand how their body works so that you're getting better results and you're feeling better in your life. So what would breakfast look like just on an average morning if, you know, for anybody?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And boy, have you picked a winner of a conversation to listen to. Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I already know about you. You're the type of person who values your health. You want the facts. You want the science. You want results. And that's what you deserve. And if someone sent this to you, That's really cool.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I have just so screwed this up. Like I literally wake up, I delay the coffee, I exercise on an empty stomach. I then have my coffee, which I'm then drinking on an empty stomach, which means I've now maximized stressing myself out. And then I'm slamming something that has 30, 45 grams of protein after I work out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so what have you done if you are the kind of person like I am that you've bought into all the BS and And you've basically been starving yourself in the morning. And even if you get out for a walk, how are you kind of actually not only not getting the benefit, but you're making it worse?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What's happening in like the person's body when you do not feed yourself first thing in the morning as a woman?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Dr. Sims, I have so many more questions, but I want to hit the pause button real quick and let's take a quick break so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And I also want to ask you directly, share this with women in your life. Everything that Dr. Sims is saying is blowing my mind and changing the way that I am going to start living my life starting tomorrow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this research is so important and so are the medical facts and the women that you care about deserve to hear this. So please share it. And don't go anywhere because Dr. Sims and I are going to be waiting for you after this short break. Stay with me. Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I have the honor of getting to learn from the extraordinary Dr. Stacey Sims.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And we're learning about the specific things that women need to do to understand their health and to take control of their bodies and their strength and the potential of their life. So, Dr. Sims, so if you've been brainwashed like I am, and you're exercising because you are trying to, like, lose weight or you're trying to look thin, Mm-hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What is happening if I continue to go down that route where I don't eat before I exercise and I'm basically starving myself and I'm going for my walk and I'm delaying food?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's because they care about you and they want you to have the science and the facts and the correct information so that you can take better care of yourself too. I cannot wait for you and I to learn from Dr. Stacey Sims today. Now, Dr. Sims is a globally recognized expert in women's health, exercise physiology, and nutrition science. She has a PhD in exercise physiology and nutrition science.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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She's on the faculty at Stanford teaching about lifestyle medicine and at Auckland University of Technology teaching sports medicine. She is a renowned researcher and has directed research programs at Stanford, Auckland University of Technology, and the University of Waikato. And she has published, check this out, 107 peer-reviewed research papers, which in normal person speak is a ton.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And I just want to break this down because the conversation that I just had with the expert that you're about to meet, who is on the faculty at Stanford, has a PhD, 107 peer-reviewed research studies, she is going to break down all of the mistakes that women are making when it comes to nutrition and exercise. I mean, this is going to blow your mind.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Her research has revolutionized how women, mm-hmm, women, approach fitness, especially during menopause and hormone changes. She's the author of two groundbreaking books, Roar and The Next Level. She also has a daughter, and just like me, is in her mid-50s, juggling a big career, a marriage, motherhood, and hormone changes. She has so much to teach you today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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,,,,,, ,,,,,,, on how to be strong in situations that are stressful. So the more that you walk and the more that you build muscle and the more that you take the advice that you're about to give us about what we should specifically be doing as women, fast forward six months from now, if you keep doing that and you're sitting in a stressful meeting at work,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And we are gonna go straight for the bro science. We are going to tell you the mistakes and the lies that you've been told. We're gonna tell you the truth based on the research about what works for women and what doesn't. We're gonna teach you why the things that you've been doing have been backfiring.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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The impact of that outside stress on you is going to be way less because you and your life have been strengthening your body by going to the gym and going for a walk so that your body can actually be in stressful situations and not get hijacked.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Dr. Sims, I want to take a quick pause and I also want to give you a chance to share this with women and young women in your life. And please don't go anywhere because I know you know there's so much more that Dr. Sims is going to be teaching us and we're going to get to it after a very short break. So stay with us. Welcome back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Today, you and I are with Stanford's Dr. Stacey Sims, and we are learning so much. I'm so excited by this conversation. And, you know, you've talked a lot about strength training. Why is strength training so important for women in particular?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's because you have been exercising like a dude and it is time for you to exercise like a woman. I am so fired up for you to be here. I am fired up to learn with you. And I am fired up for all of the women and the young women in your life that you're going to share this with. So please help me welcome Dr. Stacey Sims to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Oh, yes. I thought there was a game you were talking about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I have a feeling you're not going to be using a walker. I have a feeling you're going to be the one teaching us all how to lift weights when we're 90 years old in the nursing home together.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So what is the biology behind building muscle and how is it different for men versus women? Like what do women need to know?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Dr. Stacey Sims, I am so thrilled that you're here in our Boston studios. I've been waiting a long time to be able to sit down, meet you, and learn from you. I'm just thrilled that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Okay, well, let's just use an avatar of somebody who is just starting, okay? So, like, we're going to, like, what's the bare minimum, doctors? I'm looking for something I can succeed at. Five sets sounds like a lot to me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So that's very good news, Dr. Sims. You know, I'm about to ask you a bunch of questions about like the specifics of what we should be doing. But I had one question. You know, whenever I'm complaining about my body or, you know, feeling out of shape or whatever it is that I want to change. My husband always turns to me and says, well, don't forget, abs are built in the kitchen, not in the gym.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah. Is this like a man's... Is that what works for men? That works for men, definitely.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Because when I hear that... Abs are built in the kitchen, not in the gym. I'm like, am I supposed to starve myself? Like, what are you talking about?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yes, and we have a lot to dig into. And so here's where I want to start. Could you speak directly to the person that's listening? And this is somebody who doesn't have a lot of time, but they made the time to be here to learn from you. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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This is not fair. No. Because I don't understand my own body. I know.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And I've been listening to the bro science of my stupid husband telling me the advice that works for him. And he's only trying to help. So why does it not work that way for women?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Wow. Because I would be a happy woman if I never had to do a crunch again. And so if I'm actually lifting, that could be true. So let's talk about the specific things we should be doing. Okay. What is the minimum amount of exercise that a woman needs to maintain her health and to be strong?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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What could that person expect might change about their life or feel different if they take everything to heart that you're about to teach us and share with us today and they use it in their own life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Okay. Because we're talking bare minimums. And talk to me about cardio because we've all been so obsessed with cardio. So is cardio a good thing? Is it a bad thing? So cardio is interesting because it's about intensity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Okay, so let me make sure I'm tracking. So one thing that you would tell us to do is to do sprint training, which sounds horrible, but it actually, as you broke it down, was like, oh, I could do that. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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30 seconds or less of something that's high intensity, whether you're sprinting on a treadmill or you're doing kettlebell swings or you're doing pushups or you're doing jumping jacks or just something. Right. And then you rest for a minute and a half?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And burning fat in 30 seconds of effort. Yeah. I mean, I am actually going to do that. Good. That sounds like something, because when you were going the box, I'm like, I think I can absolutely do that. And again, I also love that it doesn't take a lot of time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Lifting three days a week. Mm-hmm. And that sprint training we just heard of 30 second bursts, full recovery for a minute and a half to two minutes and try to do it five times maximum.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So if you had to bottom line what a woman should be doing in her 20s versus her 30s versus her 40s versus 50s and up, what would it be?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Your hormones change. And now the 10 to 12 reps that we've all been socialized to do does not work, which is why we all start bitching about the fact that our bodies are not responding to what we always used to do. This makes a lot of sense, Dr. Sims.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I'm definitely lifting way too light and I am lifting far too much of it. Like the little tiny two pound weights with the- Oh, put those down. Put those down. Like those aren't doing anything for my chicken wing arms? No, not at all. Okay. Not at all. Well, that explains it because I'm like, why does this hurt so much? And I'm getting zero result here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Gotcha. So the general takeaway here is, is that when we hit that sort of late 30s to 40s mark and our estrogen is dropping and our bodies are changing and we're not getting the same results, you got to really focus on these sprint trainings and also doing weight training where the load is heavier, but the reps are shorter.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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One thing that strikes me about you already is that you actually exude that. Oh, thanks. You have a level of presence and power in your body, and it's not just because you are in incredibly great shape in terms of muscle definition, but it's actually something that's noticeable. And so I think this goes beyond sort of that sense of separation of stress.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So I have another question from a listener named Erin. Okay. Is it better to use machines or free weights?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I would love to have you talk directly to the person listening who has never stepped foot in a gym. Because I do think, you know, even though I'm in shape and I know a little bit about what I should be doing, I always feel intimidated when I go to a gym because there's always guys, like it's filled with guys and there's more and more women, which is great.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But if I walk into a gym, even at a hotel and I'm seeing all the machines and then I see the free weight space and then I see the little space and I don't know exactly what I should be doing. Right. Right. I don't stay long and I leave. And I would love to have you since you've been in this industry for so long, talk to the person who wants to do something and wants to learn about this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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But the idea of actually walking into the local gym is just daunting. Yep. So what do you want them to know, though, about the people at the front desk and the way that people at a gym think about somebody new walking in?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Like what I experience in just sitting here with you is that you're actually embodied in the present and in your body. And a lot of times when we're stressed out, especially, you know, as caregivers and the amount of stuff that we do, we're up in our heads and disconnected from our body. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And so I'm excited to really learn from you because I want to feel more like the centered confidence and calmness that you just seem to move through a space with. I'm good with a facade.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And I appreciate the list of resources and we'll make sure to link to those in the show notes. So I have a bunch of burning questions that listeners submitted. Okay. Yeah. And we may have covered some of this, but I'm just going to hit these so that I make sure to cover the things that people kept writing in about that they wanted you to answer, Dr. Sims. Okay. Can you talk about cold plunging?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Sure. Should women be doing it? What are the mistakes that we're making? What's the difference between men and women and cold plunging?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Well, I mean, I live in Southern Vermont, so there's always like an ice slick on the thing and you're like having to take an ax and, you know, cut off the top of the barrel or keep an agricultural bubbler in it to keep it from freezing. It's got to be at least 32 degrees. Yeah, too cold. And my husband gets in it and he's like... freaking like meditation Zen.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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He just gets in, sits down, he starts shivering. I climb in that sucker and I'm like, and then I can barely breathe. I never shiver. Right. And the shivering is what you're supposed to be doing in there?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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After learning everything that she's about to share with you based on all of her research, I, as a woman, I feel like I've been gaslit by bro science and the male fitness industry, for real. Like literally all of the things that I've been doing that work for guys don't work for women. And you need to understand this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And if you do this in 55 degree water, so it's more cool, it's not ice cold. Right. What is the benefit to a woman's body by doing a cold plunge and how long should you be in it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I keep forgetting you live in New Zealand. I'm like, why are you talking Celsius? I'm like, okay, that's why.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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That's all true science.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Amazing. So you have such an incredible background, and I'm actually going to read it because it's quite a bit. You know, I've talked about this when I was introducing you, but you have a PhD in exercise physiology. You're a researcher. You're a former professional athlete. You now train professional athletes. You're an expert in exercise physiology.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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You have a long list of other specialties like cardiovascular disease prevention, thermoregulation, women's health. You are a pioneering researcher that participates in her own studies. And you have this incredible mantra, Dr. Simms. Women are not small men. Yeah. What does that mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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,,,,,, ,,,,,,, I love you for the fact that you're willing to say, you know what, screw it. I am going to go into that gym and I am going to do something uncomfortable because I deserve to feel good in my body. And that means I need to start prioritizing doing it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And now what I really love for all of us is that Dr. Stacey Sims gave us a matter of fact, science-backed, simple step-by-step guide to exactly what to do to work with the design of your body as a woman. Now all you need to do is go do it. Alrighty, I will be waiting for you in the very next episode. I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So, can I call you Dr. Sims? You can, or Stacey.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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But sure. I'm just going to run through it. I believe it. Oh, man. Here we go. Did you shove a banana down? No, I had some turkey. Oh, good. In the fridge that I made on Sunday and brought down in my little Tupperware dish. Nice. So I have something clean to eat for just that exact reason. Literally picked up the 120 and went like in my arms like this. Like I had to use this hand to get it up.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And here's another thing that you're going to love about her. I'm like, why are the meat wings still flapping? This is like working for my 23-year-old, but not me. Yeah, yeah. Now I know why. Now you know why. Come on out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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What does that motto, women are not small men, mean in practice?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I am so glad that we're starting here because I am constantly shocked at the things that I think I should be doing. And the things that I hear a lot of male health experts talking about are a lot of the bro science or a lot of the kind of bro experts and the fitness trends that are very dude oriented. No offense to the guys. I'm just saying that

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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It often has felt like to me, as I've learned more and more, like, oh my God, wait a minute. We've just kind of treated women and our health almost like if you're golfing. There's the T that's further back for the guys. And there's the T that's a little bit like closer for the women. And we're just going to treat everybody the same, but shrink it a little bit. Yep.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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I mean, this is one of the most life-changing conversations I have had since I started this podcast over two years ago. Starting tomorrow, I am a different person because I understand why my husband can do certain things, and next thing you know, he looks great. I do him? Nope. And have you ever heard that saying, abs are made in the kitchen? That's not true if you're a woman.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Shrink and pink is what we called it in the industry. Shrink and pink.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Well, the other thing that I think has been like really fascinating, we're going to get into this, is just that a lot of the research has only been done on men. And there hasn't been research on how certain things have an impact on women and our hormones and our body structure and our composition, which is, as you've already said, fundamentally different than that of somebody who's male.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And so I'm excited for you to take us step by step by step and help us kind of tee up all the assumptions that we've all just kind of come to assume that work for men but don't work for women, and what we need to know and need to be doing to actually work with our bodies and take better care of ourselves. Perfect.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So what's the most common mistake that women make by following male-centric fitness advice?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Oh, so that's what I would always do. Like I would always literally like, I'm going to eat after because my husband would eat after. And then we would, my mouth is on the floor. You can see this on YouTube, but like, as you're listening, I'm processing this because I'm thinking how often I've been pissed off at Chris, my husband, because we will take on some challenge together.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And I'm like, this is not fair. Like, how is it that this is actually making you lose weight? And I feel like I'm puffier and fluffier and tired and pissed off. And I'm following the same steps. I'm doing the intermittent fasting. I'm not eating beforehand. I'm slamming the thing after I'm doing it. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? And this is because he's male and I'm female.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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So if you're wondering why all the cardio in the world isn't working, why the nonstop yoga and HIIT classes are just not hitting, it's because you're exercising like a dude. It's time that you wake up and realize, like our expert says, women are not small men. Women have fundamentally different biology. In fact, even our muscular structure is different.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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Are you with me? Like, are you in my house with me? Maybe. Stacey, I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I think a lifetime of messaging about like thin is preferable. Yeah. and that I want to maximize calories burned. So I'm going to get up and I'm going to have a cup of coffee because I'm tired and I'm going to wire myself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy

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And then I, you know, back in the day would be going for a run or going to some sort of like fitness class. You know, I'm old enough to have been doing step aerobics and everything else. Right there with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Have you ever walked away from a conversation or a meeting at work and felt smaller? Like somehow after the conversation, you realize, wow, my confidence just got chipped away a little. And as you think about what just happened, Maybe you realize someone interrupted you or corrected you or dismissed what you had to say.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power

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I also want to take a moment and acknowledge you for taking time to listen to something that could truly help you live a better life. And I love what you and I are going to be talking about on today's episode, because we're going to get to spend some time today with the incredible trial lawyer, Jefferson Fisher.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power

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That's beautiful. Yeah. Really beautiful. Yeah. So what was the phrase that helped the parents stop arguing in the foster situation?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Can you give me an example?

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So let's say you're standing in the aisle at the grocery store and you grab detergent and your spouse then questions the detergent.

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And these are these little things that become big things.

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And you're saying that you're standing there in the grocery aisle and you say, do we have to agree on this right now?

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No, it's not that big of a deal.

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And what I love about it, though, is it's a very kind way to cue someone else that they're pushing an argument on you.

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What is the best way to handle the knock, knock, knock? You got five minutes and you know that with this person, it's 48. How do you respond to that to protect your time?

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I wouldn't be surprised if you've actually seen him online because every single day, millions of people watch the videos that Jefferson makes from the front seat of his car in between his court cases and meetings with his clients. Jefferson's strategies for handling belittlement, gaslighting, fake apologies, toxic behavior, and difficult conversations are game changers. Boom. He is so good.

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Amazing. Jefferson, I need to take a quick break so we can hear a word from our sponsors. But I have a couple more questions about this topic of how you de-escalate. And I'm curious if you have more strategies. And so let's hear a word from our sponsors. Make sure you share this episode with anyone in your life who could really use it, which is basically everybody.

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And don't go anywhere because Jefferson and I will be waiting for you after a short break. And we're going to keep on talking about how you de-escalate conflict and arguments. in a minute. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. You and I are getting to spend time with the amazing Jefferson Fisher.

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So Jefferson, you mentioned that there are a number of phrases that you teach people to help you deescalate. Are there others that come to mind other than, is this something we need to agree on right now?

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It goes back to your earlier point that it's a person that doesn't feel like they're being heard.

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You forget that because what people say, it does have an emotional impact on you. You are going to react, but you get to choose how you respond.

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Yes.

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Oh.

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I'm so excited. So let's get into it. Jefferson Fisher, I am so thrilled you're back on the Mel Robbins podcast.

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Yeah. You immediately internalize it and you have no idea what's actually going on.

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How do you handle somebody that kind of belittles you? They're like picking on your weight or they're constantly like, are you still single? Like, you know how people like, especially people that you're close with have a way of belittling you? Right. What do you do in those situations?

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I'm thinking of like using this with a couple people in my life.

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We need to role play this.

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And congratulations on your new book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More.

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I'm trying to think of a scenario.

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Wow. Yeah. This is like very eye-opening because I can see both situations where I need to use it And I can see situations where I probably say things, and I'm thinking particularly to my adult kids, that probably feels belittling. I can think about our daughter out in Los Angeles, and every time I see her, she's wearing a piece of clothing that I don't recognize.

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Well, I can't wait to dig in to the topic of how you can communicate effectively and hold on to your power, particularly when you're dealing with difficult people, challenging situations. But before we get into the tactics, can you just talk to the person listening?

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And so I think to myself, and oftentimes I will say, is that new? And I'm thinking in my mind, where do you get the money for this? You know, like that kind of thing. And then she's like, yeah, I thrifted it. And there's this little tiff thing. But if she were to say to me, are you trying to embarrass me?

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Because you're right. The question is what I'm saying on the surface. But what I'm actually accusing her of is not being responsible with her money.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Wow.

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Holy cow. How do you respond to disrespect?

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What do you do? I was with somebody yesterday who had just visited their mother. And I said to her, you know, like, how did it go? And she said, well, it was fine, but it's my mother. And the thing that drives me crazy is she is extremely disrespectful.

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Mm-hmm.

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to anybody that is waiting on us at a restaurant, like so much so that the owner came over and said something to her. Is there a way to respond when someone else is throwing a fit or is being disrespectful? You know what I mean? Like somebody is getting testy at the airport and they're with you. It's not a complete stranger. Is there something that you could say to somebody in that situation?

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And if they take everything that you're about to teach them from your new book and they put it to use in their life, what are they going to experience?

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How did you do that?

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Oh, my gosh. Do you have strategies, Jefferson, for dealing with your own emotions when you're dealing with somebody who's got a very difficult personality?

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And shoulders, like pulling back?

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Well, what's interesting about all your techniques is it's literally about saying less and understanding that you can't ever control what somebody else says, thinks, or does, or what their emotional reaction is going to be. All of the power is on your side of the table. And using your breath, using distance, Using a technique of saying less so they have less to work with.

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Yeah.

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Lowering your voice, deciding what you're going to respond to and what deserves a response and what doesn't and who's worth the time and who isn't. What is worth pouring your energy into. And when you start to own that side of the power, you realize you're actually always in control.

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Me. That's what I'm realizing.

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That is such an empowering way, Jefferson, to think about being more confident. I just love that. And one of the other things that I love that you talk about is gaslighting. I know it's one of the topics that you discuss a lot online. We get a lot of questions about it. And so that's what we're going to dig into after we hear a short word from our sponsors.

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Do not go anywhere because Jefferson and I are going to lead you through what you need to say and do the next time someone gaslights you. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. I'm here with Jefferson Fisher. Aren't you loving this? I am loving this.

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So let's dig in to a topic, Jefferson, that you get a lot of questions about, and that is how do you handle someone who's gaslighting you?

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What I love about your work and the reason why I'm so excited about your book is because it is really unsettling to have to deal with somebody that is a difficult personality. And I want to invite you as you're listening. to the conversation today and getting to spend some time learning from Jefferson, I want you to think about someone in your life that is really difficult.

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There's somebody in my family who just loves, like, you know, the kind of person that just loves to poke.

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Yeah.

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They love to just say something controversial. They love to just kind of throw a zinger of a opinion out there. And it's so offensive or like, eh, that you kind of stop and think, you don't even believe that.

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Right.

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Like, you're just looking to get a rise out of somebody.

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Mm-hmm.

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Is that the situation where you would go, I just think about things differently?

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The wet blanket. The wet blanket. Just like on a fire. Exactly. Just throw a wet blanket on the fire. Because there are times where I literally just want to be like, you're a complete idiot. And then I think, why are you taking the bait? This is literally like somebody fishing.

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They're throwing something out to see if you snatch onto it, then you grab it and you're like, and next thing you know, you're in the middle of this thing and you're not even sure why you're even debating this topic. And I have a hard time, I think, being the wet blanket, especially when I think somebody's an idiot.

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I don't know. I feel like maybe I'd be more powerful and calm. You're such a nice, kind person. I can't even imagine going up against you in trial because it would burn me up about how kind you are and how nice you are in the courtroom. And most lawyers are very just... I've had that comment. You have?

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Jefferson, I think you actually just shared the secret of life. No, seriously, don't give someone else an enemy.

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Yeah.

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And this isn't about being somebody who is soft. And it's not about letting people trample all over you. It's actually an incredibly powerful position to be mindful and protective of your time and your energy. And who is worth your time and what is worth your energy and what conversations deserve a response and which ones deserve silence.

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What does that mean?

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For real?

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I can't imagine you behind a drum set. You should have seen me. Did you ever have long hair?

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Oh, wow. Okay. Now, this is your point. The person you're talking to is not the person that they are.

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How do you deal with a narcissistic personality style? Somebody that is always about them. I'm thinking about a number of friends that are divorced and have a ex that they share kids with. And you're getting the long texts and a lot of make wrong. And how do you deal with somebody that is, first of all, never going to change?

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It might be an ex-spouse and you had a contentious breakup or divorce and you have to deal with them because of the kids. Maybe it's your mom or your father-in-law or a brother-in-law. Maybe you have a issue with a child or a boss at work, just like tension. frustration, grudges, like all these things that can really make the dynamic challenging.

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And second, you have to figure out how to navigate communication with them because of the kids or because you work for this person.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Wow. How do you broach with somebody who you care about who's like in a bad mood or they're really intense and they're that way a lot? Because I've tried to, and it feels like poking a grizzly. Like, are you upset about something? Or, you know, like, is there, like, why, like,

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Because I know that everything that you're going to learn from Jefferson today is going to help you hold on to your power whenever you are going to need to deal with this person.

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Did you mean to teach us all how to be better communicators?

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How is it that you learned to assume good intent about people?

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And one of the things I'd love for you to just explain is how did the experience of being a trial lawyer really prime you and your expertise in being able to deal effectively with somebody who has a challenging personality or is argumentative? Like, how did that shape you in the way that you approach this?

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Oh, I love that. What are your parting words?

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Jefferson Fisher, thank you. Thank you for having me. You're freaking awesome. Thanks, Mel. I want to make sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And what I loved about the conversation today is you were reminded of the truth. You have the power. Stop giving it to other people and to especially people that are difficult.

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You know, there's this one person in my life who literally rolls their eyes as I'm talking and they think that I can't see it, but I can see you at the end of the table rolling your eyes as I'm trying to say something. Or have you ever gotten one of those apologies where someone was like, I'm sorry, that's how you feel. And you think, wait a minute, was that actually an apology?

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Your power is in your response. It's in your breath. It's in what you say and when you say it. And I know that you now feel empowered based on everything that Jefferson just shared with you today. So please go use it. And I'll see you in the next episode.

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Wow.

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Now you're making me insecure. I talk too much. I vent my feelings in text to certain people. Oh, my gosh. I got a lot of work to do. I feel like I need to have all of your little phrases, the Jeffersonisms, I'm going to call them, on a card. And I would go through it as part of my morning routine. Now, remember, Mel.

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There's one in here. You're freaking awesome.

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Stitcher.

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So the thing that I'm already taking away is that even viewing someone as being super difficult or being narcissistic in their personality type or holding grudges or negative or whatever label you want to put, That right there is already a problem because you already flipped it on its head and said, this is just a person that wants attention.

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This is a person who wants to be understood and they don't feel understood, which is why you're getting all that negativity on the surface. And so if you, number one,

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if I'm listening and hearing you correctly, if you even just flip your viewpoint about this person to, hey, this is just another human being who has not the best way of trying to get themselves understood, that right there already lowers the intensity of the interaction.

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Mm-hmm.

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No, that wasn't an apology. That was belittlement. And today, trial lawyer Jefferson Fisher is here in our Boston studios, and you and I are going to dive deep into how to respond to disrespect, to gaslighting, and exactly what to do when someone says, I was just joking. One takeaway at a time.

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How do you deal with somebody who's, who whenever they get overwhelmed or upset, they're like, nobody ever listens to me. Like, how do you respond to that?

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That was masterful. And I know I'm not the only one, Jefferson, who is now going to take that script and start using it with people in their life. And I'm thinking of one person in particular who, whenever they get upset, that's a thousand percent what they say. And I now know, because I'm learning from you, listen to the end of the sentence, Take a beat.

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You also did this technique that I noticed where you lowered when I raised my voice. And you slowed the conversation down by simply slowing the pace of the question. And you're asking the question not like a jerk, like, oh, so I never listen to you? Because that's the other thing that people do.

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Right.

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Versus saying, I never listen to you?

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You're not only going to learn exactly what to say, but also how your words or using silence help you reclaim your confidence, your voice, and stand your ground. Hey, it's Mel. I am so excited that you're here. It is always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. And if you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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Well, it's also what you're pointing to is you have power. Oh, yeah. And we don't think about it that way. We get so wrapped up in the stress of our day-to-day lives that you forget that your words and your energy has tremendous power and we give it away to other people. And particularly when somebody is a negative person or they're a difficult personality and you start to brace them

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And you believe they have more power because of their bravado or their whatever, or the fact that they're constantly gaslighting you or erupting, or they pull the silent treatment. All of these things that are wildly emotionally immature, but feels like they have more power over you. What you're saying is, no, no, no, no, no. You always have power.

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What was the phrase that... you are hearing that has someone with autism communicate better?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Make Next Year the Best Year: Ask Yourself These 7 Questions

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited you're here with me because once a year I go through the process of auditing the last 12 months. It is the most powerful thing ever. And today you and I are going to do this together. Now, this is a process my husband and I have done every year for the past 20 years.

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Every single photo was work. I didn't spend a lot of time with my parents, with my family. There weren't a lot of celebrations and it was depressing. And when you ask yourself, what were the hardest parts of your year? It's okay that it makes you sad. it's okay to feel the feelings. For me, one of the things that made me really sad is becoming an empty nester. I don't even like that term.

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I prefer the term bird launcher because the fact is once they fly away, they tend to fly back and they need more money and they have problems they need help with. And I love that. It's a sign that they need you and that they trust you. But it is kind of sad. It's sad to not have the energy in the house. It's sad to not have all the kids coming over after school and to have to be kind of quiet.

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Another really hard part, my dad had to have surgery. It's very unexpected. And it's also been hard to see that in the wake of the surgery, which was just a back surgery, it went well. I know you're going to ask, so I'm just going to tell you it went really well, but the recovery, it's kind of a long road. And he's Can't do a lot of the things that brings him joy. So he's grumpy.

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My mom's kind of grumpy about it. You know, it's not the easiest thing to see your parents getting a little bit older. And so that was a really hard part. Another hard part, not going to lie to you, right in the let them theory. It is hard. a very difficult thing to take on a project that size. And it chewed up most of my weekends, a lot of late nights. It was a lot of hard work.

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And so as much as it was a high, it was also kind of a low in terms of just the hard part. And I'm pointing that out because there are things in your life that are going to make you really proud and are going to be really big accomplishments. And they're also very hard. And that's okay. And kind of understanding that just because something is successful doesn't mean it wasn't a low point.

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Just because something was amazing in the end doesn't mean it wasn't a project that sucked you dry. And so it made both lists for me. The other thing that was very difficult for me is our daughter Sawyer went through the most painful and devastating breakup of her life. And she was profoundly depressed. and heartbroken.

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And it is extremely difficult to watch somebody that you love process something like that because you can't fix it for them. Like the hardest thing about grief and heartbreak is You got to go through it. It was also very hard to watch our son, Oak, apply to a bunch of colleges and just get no, no, no from the three top schools he was interested in. And again, you can't fix it.

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More than a million of you did an annual audit. You loved it. You loved how empowered you feel. We are going to do it again. And if you're brand new and this is the first episode that you've ever listened to the Mel Robin podcast, let me tell you something. You have picked a winner. I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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And it's a really important thing in life to not get what you want, honestly, because it makes you realize what's worth working for. It makes you realize what's important, makes you realize nothing's guaranteed. And Kendall had a very hard year too.

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points where she was just very down on herself and questioning whether or not being in the music industry was something she was ever going to be successful at. And yet again, do you see the lesson life is teaching me? That I can't rescue someone from their challenges.

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In fact, when you try to, and this is what I learned, and it was kind of a gift now that I think about it, because as all this was going on, I'm writing The Let Them Theory. And it led to an entire section about how when people in your life are struggling, you have to let them because they're capable of facing these challenges in life.

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And when you try to rescue people from the natural consequences of life and their decisions, and when you try to rescue people from what life is trying to teach you, they tend to drown. So it was very hard for me to go, okay, let them. And let me just focus on providing the support and believing in what they, their ability to face this and to get through it. You know what? It works.

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The people in your life are a lot stronger than you believe. So you got to let them and trust that they are capable with your support of figuring it out and meeting these moments in life. And, you know, I'm sharing all this with you because what's going to be on your list is personal. And what it teaches you is personal, but it's also powerful. It's so powerful.

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I can't wait to hear what you find when you look back and you ask these questions. This is so cool, isn't it? I love this. I'm so glad I get to share this process with you. And let's take a quick pause. so that we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors.

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I also want to give you a chance to share this with people that you love because for the past 20 years, I've been doing this with Chris, but we now do this with our kids. Like this is the coolest thing to do with your family and with your friends and with your significant other.

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because you not only learn about one another, but you kind of remind each other of the things that have happened over the last 12 years. And it really brings you together. And I just love that for you. So share this with people that you love. And don't you dare go anywhere because we've got more questions that I need to ask you. We got more to do in this audit. We're just getting started.

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Oh my God, I love this. And I'll be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. Today, you and I are going through this process that I do every single year.

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It's where you take an audit of the last year of your life and you use all of the wisdom and the lessons and the things that you learned from the last 12 months and you use it to create a very personal and profound and powerful set of directions that are going to lead you to the best year of your life. And that brings me to the third question. What did you learn about yourself this year?

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I love that you're here for this because you know what this tells me? It tells me you're the kind of person that not only values your time, but you want to make next year one of the best years of your life. And what we're going to do today is I'm going to walk you through seven questions that will help you audit the last 12 months of your life.

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Like for real. And I want you to really look at both the highs and the lows, the things that you accomplished and the things that you didn't. I want you to look at what made you super happy and brought you a lot of joy. And I want you to think about the things that were really challenging or broke your heart or that made you scared. Because regardless of whether it felt good or bad,

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I guarantee you it taught you something. Guarantee you, you learned something about yourself. You know, when I look at my answers from last year, they were very kind of pragmatic. You know what I mean? I was like, okay, I learned that the way I've been going about my health, now that I'm in menopause, it's not going to work, Mel. You can't just run this off. You can't just starve it off.

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You're going to have to do something different because doing what you've always done is now not working, woman. So you got to wake up and accept the facts. And the other thing that I wrote last year is, Mel, you got to stop managing other people's emotional breakdowns. I was always a fixer. Like, I was the first person to rescue people. I was the first person to throw money at it.

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I made it my job to make everybody happy. I'm the big reassurer. And that insight... that's what helped me this past year to show up totally differently when the people in my life were struggling. Instead of jumping in and saying, oh, it's going to be okay, I would just take a step back and be like, let them be heartbroken. Let them be scared that they're not going to make it.

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Let them feel like a loser, that they've been rejected not once, not twice, but a third time. Let them. And trust in their ability to really meet this moment and learn from it and ask for the help that they need. Because what ended up happening is by stepping back, it created the space for especially my adult kids to step forward and grow and learn and strengthen themselves.

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And that was a really cool thing. But let me tell you when I do the audit and I think about this past year and these past 12 months and I look at the photos, oh my God. So you're ready for the lessons? Okay. So I learned that I've gotten to a point where I no longer can take the business that I've built to the next level. Like I have tapped out of my capacity to truly run operations.

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Because one of the things that I've noticed over the years is that everybody makes the same mistake, whether they're making New Year's resolutions or they're setting goals for the next year or they're doing business planning.

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Like I'm terrible at it at this point. I was good for a certain point, but now I just have to be honest with myself and realize that I can't do the job that I've been doing anymore. And I can't do it well. And that's a really important thing to be able to admit to yourself. That maybe you're not a great parent when they're teenagers. That's okay.

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Maybe you're not great at all at Excel spreadsheets, but you're pretending to be. That's okay. Just knowing that, that is critical. Because when you accept the facts about your own limitations or your own interests or your own strengths or weaknesses, now you can pivot instead of beating yourself up, instead of continuing to slog forward. Maybe you've learned that you're kind of selfish.

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Maybe you've learned that... you need more out of your partner and you're not that needy. You're with somebody who is actually selfish and not that nice to you. Like what you learn about yourself is incredibly important because I truly believe that anywhere in your life where you're feeling friction, and that's what I felt a lot at work,

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like this friction and this tension between the role I was playing when I sit here and I talk to you on the podcast and the role I have to play when it comes to building the team and managing the teams and looking at the P&Ls and like running the revenue and figuring out the operations and worrying about the leases. And oh my God, I just want to throw up when I think about this stuff.

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I'm horrible at it. And it makes me feel this like friction. Any area of your life, This year, where you have felt friction or frustration, you're in the wrong role.

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You're in the wrong seat in the bus, whether that's in your marriage, whether it's you as a parent, whether it's how you relate to your roommates, whether it's the job you're doing in your company, there is something about the fit that's not fitting anymore. And having that insight that I don't fit in the spot I'm playing anymore, that is liberating.

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We're so obsessed with like looking ahead and manifesting and setting goals and wiping the slate clean that we jump over one of the most powerful and important and critical parts of of planning. And what is that thing that is critical? It's understanding where you are right now. See, if you just simply look ahead, you're going to be like, oh, I want to do this and I want to do that.

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Because then you realize it's not you, it's a process or it's a role or it's the fact that something has grown beyond your skillset. It doesn't mean you're a loser. Like, do you know how much courage it takes to go, I don't want to run operations anymore. I really have to focus on what I can do. Or, you know what? I've been pretty selfish in this family.

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And it's because I feel like my needs aren't being met. So I'm fighting against everybody and I need to change that. So I learned that I was in the wrong seat in the bus. And that's why there was a lot of friction about and frustration in my work. And that insight is helping me to go, okay, well then what is the right seat? And who do I need to surround myself with?

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And what changes do I need to make? Another thing I learned about myself, I want more time with my family, especially my parents. Like I made that a priority this year and I still did not see them enough. Do you see how looking backwards helps you create specific directions that will help you go forward?

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That's why this audit is so critical to you creating a plan that makes this next year the best year of your life. The other thing that I saw is that I am one of these people that I grocery shop when I'm hungry. I grocery shop when I'm hungry everywhere in my life. And what does that mean? When you go to the grocery store and you're hungry, you buy all kinds of stuff you don't need.

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One of the problems with allowing yourself to stay in the wrong role at work or in the wrong role in your relationship, because you can be in a marriage and feel like you're playing the wrong role right now because you're doing too much or you're not feeling supported or you're parenting your partner.

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One of the problems with that is you start to get very emotional and then you overcomplicate and you overreact. And just like when you're really hungry at a grocery store, you overbuy everything. And so I can see that... I often get myself in a state where I get so like agitated about things that I overcomplicate and I overreact and I'm tired of doing that.

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And that's something that I learned about myself this year, that it is critical that that I weed out any area where there's friction or frustration and I stay laser focused on the one or two things that I do well and laser focused on making sure that I protect my peace so that I don't take it out on the people around me. And so keep in mind

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that as you go through these questions, you're probably going to keep going back and being like, oh yeah, that was a low. Oh yeah, that was a high. Oh yeah, I did learn this thing about myself. And that's why I just love this audit process because you're really cool. And you're multidimensional. And you're a lot smarter than you give yourself credit for. And you've learned a lot about yourself.

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And you're much wiser than you kind of realize. And we fall into this trap of just kind of getting through the day-to-day and staying on the surface. And when you really hit the brakes and you give yourself time to take a look back and consider how you feel and how things impacted you, I think you're going to be shocked. And what you actually know to be true about yourself.

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And once you have all that on paper or in your notes app or in your computer, it's real. And it's a reminder that you do know who you are. You do know what you want. You do know what makes you happy. You're not stuck. You're not lost.

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I want to do the other thing. but you're missing all the wisdom from the last 12 months. In fact, I guarantee you, because I'm going to prove it to you when I ask you these seven questions, you don't even remember 95% of the things that happened in the last 12 months. Me either.

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You may be overwhelmed, but that doesn't mean you can't figure out where you are right now and create directions to move and inch yourself forward in ways that really make you happier and more fulfilled. I can already feel how much better next year is going to be.

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And there's so much more I want to share with you, but I got to hit the pause button so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors and so that you can share this with people in your life who should be doing the yearly audit too. But don't go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

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And I'm loving doing this audit process with you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this with the people that you love. And let's just jump right back into it. Because now you know where you are, right? Now you're in the present moment. Now you have the last 12 months front and center on the paper, in your photo roll, in your cells. You're feeling it. It's a part of you.

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Now I can ask you, what are you going to stop doing in the coming year? And this question, and in fact, the next three questions come from a very simple planning tool that... Businesses have been using forever. I mean, I'm talking like Harvard Business School, the world's leading brands, the most sophisticated executive teams of publicly traded companies.

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The best coaches on the planet use this tool just called Stop, Start, Continue. It just cuts right through the BS and helps you focus on what is it that I need to stop doing? What do I need to start doing? And what am I going to continue doing? Because we often forget when we're setting goals, continue. What am I going to continue doing?

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And you're not going to forget that part because we're using these seven questions. And so question number four, what are you going to stop doing in the next year? And for me, you know, I'm looking back at my answers that I wrote down 12 months ago and 12 months ago, you know what I said? I'm not, I'm going to stop traveling for work. I'm just not doing it. I'm going to stop traveling for work.

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This process is going to help you review what happened and all the experiences, the highs, the lows, the lessons, the wins, the losses, and we're going to pull it all together and you're going to go, oh my gosh, wow. And from that place, you're going to be able to create a set of directions for how you make your next year the single best year of your life.

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And I used to do like 30 or 40 keynotes a year. It was a huge part of the business, but I just, it was draining me. Got to stop doing it. I'm very proud to say I did seven speeches this year. That's it. That's a huge change. I should now probably put that on one of the highlights of the year, right? And again, this is why this becomes such an iterative process.

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The other thing I said I'm going to stop doing is I'm going to stop bitching about menopause because it's not helping me accept who I am. And I'm just going to get to work and I'm going to lean in and I'm going to learn. And what I learned is it's all about strength training and protein, people. Strength training, protein, and hormone replacement therapy if it's safe for you. And it works.

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Now, when I asked myself this question... What am I going to stop doing? Oh my God. It's a hard one. I want to stop allowing myself to stay in projects or situations where I feel that friction or frustration. And I just want to get laser focused on weeding out like process things that aren't working or dynamics with people that aren't working and just stop tolerating things

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anything less than just peace and ease. And I've started doing that with my family where I said to Chris the other day, there's something that we're working on together. And he was starting to get really nervous that it's not going to work out. And I'm like, can we just bring ease to this?

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It's either going to work or it's not going to work, but like kind of getting all agitated about it, it doesn't help. can we just bring ease to this? And I've started saying it with certain people in my family that get an edge in their voice. I get that you're frustrated. Can we just dial down the tone a little bit? Can we just take a deep breath and talk through this without the intensity? And

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This idea that I'm going to stop allowing that friction and intensity around me and I'm going to really kind of be focused on protecting a more peaceful state, it doesn't mean I'm going to be steamrolled. It just means there's an energy thing that I really don't want to buy into. I don't want to get sucked into. It's really important to me. What else am I going to stop doing?

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I'm stopping myself from trying to solve my kids' problems and giving them advice and teaching myself to just listen. And that's helping a lot. And I'm sure I'll come to more. And like, that's the thing. I'm doing this live with you, so it doesn't sound very professional the way I'm talking right now. And I'm sort of like your friend.

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It'd be like you and I sitting at lunch together and we're like, well, I don't know. What am I going to stop doing? And that's the other reason to come back to this and listen and to write things down because you can add things to the list. You can truly... You know, like come back to this because once you kind of start chipping away at this, more and more and more opens up.

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I'm going to stop making work my number one priority. Like it's been taking over my life. And part of that's because the book is launching right now. But I really do not want to take on more projects next year. Like there it is. That's it. See, I just discovered it by talking to you. I need to stop adding things. And that means focus on the things that are actually working, which is this podcast.

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And I'm going to start subtracting. That's what I'm going to do. Ooh, that's a good one. I like that one. I better write that in a Sharpie and put it on my forehead for crying out loud. And if my family hears this, they're going to be like, Mel, what did you say you're going to do? You're going to stop doing things. And that brings me to question number five. What are you going to start doing?

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So this is something new. What are you going to start doing? Well, I'm almost embarrassed to tell you last year's answers. Top of the list, people. You ready? I'm going to strength train three days a week. That didn't happen. And here's the thing about it. you know, I didn't do it. I don't need to trash myself about it.

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And this is important because it's personal. It's personal what's going to make your next year one of the best years of your life. And I'm not going to allow you to make that mistake of not taking a beat and tapping the brakes and spending the time digging into what your own life has to teach you about what will make for the best year of your life. Because you don't know right now.

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How amazing is it if you could bring compassion to the things that didn't happen and instead lean in with curiosity? Because if I say, well, why didn't that happen, Mel? I'll tell you why. It actually happened if I was in Boston for a week taping the podcast because I was in a very steady routine. And it would happen if I happened to be in Vermont for a stretch.

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It didn't happen when things got crazy. And that tells me more data, which is my life doesn't work when I shop when I'm hungry. My life doesn't work when I say yes to too many things. My life doesn't work and the things that I need don't fall in place if I get too ambitious around what I think I can get done. That it's in slowing down and getting into more of a rhythm that I actually feel better.

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And that's personal for me, which means I got to bring that to my goals. And do you want to know what's fascinating? If I hadn't done this audit, my plan for next year would be more. I got to do more. I got to take on more. I got to do this. I got to do that. I got to do the other thing. My audit is telling me, actually, Mel, no, you got to do less.

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You got to focus on the things that actually matter. You got to get rid of a lot of stuff that's not working. And then you got to just really lean into those things and be a real, just maniacal, unwavering B-I-T-C-H, if you know what I mean, about anything else that comes up. And particularly with myself, because I'm the one that shops when I'm hungry.

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And so this is a really important insight for me. And it might be for you too, that maybe... You say yes to too much, which means you're saying no to the things that matter. And you're chasing the next thing instead of truly leaning into the real thing. And I'm a thousand percent guilty of that. And another thing that I wrote last year is that I want to be aggressive about saving money.

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And I did that and it was on my list and it was a reminder. And it's only when it's in front of my face that I remember to do it. And I think you're gonna find the same thing. And so it's very clear to me what I need to start doing. And that is being more disciplined about just focusing on the core things that matter to me instead of expand, expand, expand.

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You can get so romanced by doing more, especially this time of year. especially this time of year. Do you know how radical and defiant it is to say, nope, my goals for the next year, I'm actually going to do less. And I'm going to focus on the things that actually matter.

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And I'm going to be super disciplined about it, about the three or four things that make me really happy, about the three or four things at work or in my career or my business that really make it excel. And I'm gonna be really just strict about not getting sucked up in all the other stuff because it's so easy for that to happen. All right, and that brings me to number six.

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What are you gonna continue doing in the next year? Last year's answer was limiting alcohol, which I was good and bad about. It depends on the stress level in my life. Alcohol is at the scene of the crime whenever I'm stressed. And one thing I'm very proud of is I'm not the drinker I used to be. I'm not the kind of person that was truly just pounding the bourbon Manhattans.

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I'm the kind of person, though, that when things get very stressful... the easiest way that I can pull the lever on my brain to go, oh my God, turn your brain off, is to just have a gin and tonic. And that's not a good thing. So I would continue to limit my alcohol and to try to figure out ways to better support myself.

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In fact, you don't even know where you are because you're not present to everything that's happened to you in the past 12 months. And it's important to know where you are. In fact, I always think about planning and goal setting in this time of year like creating a set of directions. Have you ever had the experience where you're trying to find a friend's house, right?

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But the best way I can support myself, honestly, is to do what I just told you I'm going to do. which is limit what I'm focused on. Because it's when I shop when I'm hungry and I say yes to too many things and I let everybody else hijack my time and I make things bigger, bigger, bigger, that I get stressed.

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When I'm out with my flowers and spending time with Chris and hanging with some friends and prioritizing my parents and I'm really focused on three things at work that truly drive the needle, I'm not stressed. And so all of this is connected. The other thing I'm going to continue doing is using the let them theory.

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That was one thing I said last year because I had just discovered it and we had just started writing the book that I'm going to let other people live their lives. because my life gets better. And I'm going to let other people be who they are, because then my relationships get better.

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We now do it with our kids now that they're young adults. You're going to freaking love this because here's the truth. There are seven questions that you need to answer that are going to unlock all of the wisdom and lessons and amazing things that have happened to you in the last 12 months, all of which you've probably forgotten.

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And when I use the let them theory, and I keep saying let them, and I let people be themselves, and I let people learn from life, and I let people know that I'm here to support them, but that I'm not going to save them. When I let people have their opinions, when I let them deal with their own emotions, when my life gets better. It creates space for me. It creates peace.

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It's unbelievable how much more time you have. And so I'm going to continue saying, let them. And then saying, let me. Every single day, because it works. And it's what creates the space for me to take care of me. And I'll tell you, I'm definitely not going to be working on my next book because holy smokes. I'm going to laser focus on the three things and not add anything else.

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And I'm just going to enjoy hearing all the miraculous ways that your life changes and your family changes and your marriage and your relationships with your adult kids and everybody else gets better because you learn the power of letting other people be who they are. It's honestly kind of interesting. The more you give up control, the more control you gain. the more power you have.

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And it just, it's incredible. All right. And the final thing, question number seven. What can you do today to take that first step now that you have a set of directions? Is there one thing on that list that you can do today? Like if you're also noticing, wow, you know, I... would love to plant flowers. I'm the same way as Mel.

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Could you watch a video that helps you plan how you're going to do that this spring for yourself to set yourself up? I mean, that's just one step forward. If you listen to me and you're like, yeah, I'm not spending enough time with my parents either. Or when's the last time I spent a Friday night laughing my tail off with my friends? Could you find a date in the calendar and reach out and plan it?

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Because now that you have the turn-by-turn set of directions of what you're going to start doing, what you're going to stop doing, what you're going to continue doing, now that you can see what brought you joy and what taught you the greatest lessons, now that you have greater self-awareness, you have a deeply personal, extremely wise, and deadly accurate set of directions to

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And maybe you've never been there before and you're a little lost. And so you call your friend and you're like, I know I'm close, but how do I get to your house? Can you help me? Can you help me get there? What's the first thing they ask you? Can you tell me where you are?

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that lead you to the simple things that you can do more of, the things you need to do less of that will help you create the best year of your life. And I think that's the most magical thing of all, that the answers are not out there. They're actually in you. That it's not the big things when you sit there and you're like, I'm going to make a million dollars. I'm going to do this.

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I'm going to do that. No, it's the little things that create the best year of your life. It's the things you stop doing. It's the things you continue doing that bring you joy, but you don't quite think about every day because they're little, but you need to continue to do them.

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And it's the things that you need to start doing because of all the lessons that you've learned or the ways that things didn't work out this year because you didn't take the time to set yourself up for success. Like maybe all you need to do is to start thinking, okay, I got these directions. How do I make this easier for myself? How do I set myself up to win? How do I not make this so hard?

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What if this wisdom and these directions that are right in front of my face actually make my life easier and more fun? What if you leaned into that? you already know what's going to create the best year of your life. And through this simple exercise, you now have a roadmap to take yourself there.

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And one other thing that you can do that will really accelerate it is share this episode with everybody that you love. You know, one of my favorite things about doing this exercise, I not only do it with Chris, but over the years as our kids have gotten older, we do it as a family.

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And so I've now just done it with you, which means I'm going to have a head start when I sit down with my family in a couple of days, because I'm going to have all this stuff written down and I'm going to have glanced through all of my camera roll.

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But the cool thing is when you do it as a group with your family, with your kids or with your parents or with your roommates, you remind each other of the good things. You remind each other of the stuff that you learned. And it's a really amazing exercise that you can do together that brings you together.

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The reason why somebody asks you, where are you, is because mathematically speaking, it's impossible to give somebody directions unless we know two things. Where are you and where do you want to go? I'm going to walk you through this process that helps you understand exactly where you are.

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And that also helps you understand what matters to each and every one of you at a completely different level, which what? Helps you show up and support one another in having the best year of your life. And that's what I want for you. And so thank you, thank you, thank you for spending this time with me. Thank you for listening to this. Thank you for sharing it with your friends and family.

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Thank you for taking the time to come back to it and to truly dig in with your own calendar and your own photos, because there is no doubt in my mind, you're gonna be surprised by what you find. So let me just recap. So you got those questions front and center, okay? Number one, what were the highlights this year? Number two, what were the hardest parts of the year for you?

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Three, what did you learn about yourself over the last 12 months? Four, what are you going to stop doing in the coming year? Five, what are you going to start doing in the coming year? Six, What are you going to continue doing in the coming year? And finally, question number seven. What can you do today to take the first step in that set of directions? That's it. There's the audit.

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It is so simple and shockingly powerful. And I cannot wait to hear the wisdom, the lessons, the insight, and the set of directions that it creates for you. Alrighty. In case no one else tells you, I also wanted to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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And what I just walked you through is a very simple formula that you can share with anyone that you love that absolutely gives you the set of directions that you need to create that better life. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the next episode. And in fact, the first time I shared this on the podcast, it was a year ago. It was over the Let Them Theory book.

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Whether you have the audio book or you have the hardcover, it's going to make your life better. Because the entire book is about learning... Hold on a second. Am I going too far into that thing? No? Yes? We good? Okay. All right. Tracy doesn't want me to hit him over the head, so I'll try that again.

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Because when you're really present to everything you've learned and experienced these last 12 months of your life, you not only know exactly who you are and where you are, you're going to be very clear about what you want and what you don't want. And I know things are a little crazy right now. I know there's a lot of you that feel uncertain based on where you may be living in the world.

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Before we jump in to the seven questions and how you're... Before we jump into the seven questions and this process that you're going to use to create the best year ever in the coming year, because do you want me to say 2025? All right. Phil, you're so pragmatic. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Stitcher.

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I know that there's a lot in the news that can feel a little overwhelming, but I'm gonna remind you over and over and over again, when you focus on yourself and when you focus on your actions and when you focus on your own life, what's within your control, your life is gonna get better. You will feel more in control and you will start to feel yourself

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truly moving your life and your career and your relationships in the right direction. And that's exactly what we're going to be doing today. Before we jump into this, I just wanna tell you a little bit about how this is gonna roll. If you're listening to me as you're walking right now, or you're driving a car, you're not gonna be able to write anything down, and that's okay.

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All I want you to do is just listen and think about your answers to these seven questions, because once you listen through this process, you're gonna wanna come back with a piece of paper, or perhaps your laptop, and you're definitely gonna wanna come back and have your camera roll with you on your phone, and you're gonna understand why in a minute.

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And you also, as you're listening, might go, oh, I want to do this with my spouse, or I want to do this with my family, which means you can listen through the whole thing and then share it with everybody and then come back and do it as a group. See, I want to have you go through this process and actually get your answers to these seven questions down on paper or in your computer. Why?

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Well, because to me, if you just keep them trapped in your mind, they're not real. I need you to pull this wisdom and clarity out of your brain and put them either in your computer or in your notes app or on a piece of paper in the real world. And you're also going to need your phone. And the reason why you're going to need your phone is because you have a camera roll on your phone.

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And we're going to be using your calendar and all of the photos from the last year to jog your memory. Because having done this for 20 years in a row, I can tell you with 100% certainty, you have forgotten 95% of what's happened this year. Are you ready? Good. So am I. I'm so excited. So let's just jump in with question number one. Describe the highlights from the past year of your life.

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And you need to do an audit because the single biggest mistake that everybody makes at this moment when they go and think about next year is they jump right into things. thinking about what they want. And you miss the biggest opportunity in the world, which is to actually figure out where you are. What are the lessons you've learned? What is it that you truly want?

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What were the highlights? Now, if you stop and think, you're like, okay, what were the highlights? You don't remember them all. And this is where your camera roll comes in. Okay. So if I take out my camera roll and I'm going to do it right now, I have resisted the urge to look through my camera roll because I wanted to actually do this with you. And I'm going to put into my search right now.

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Let's see. Let's go to January. Okay. Oh my gosh, like already. Wow, I started the year visiting my daughter in California. I completely forgot. Oh, there I am with my best friend from elementary school, Jodi. There's a photo of us. We're in Santa Monica. I completely forgot about that. Oh, whoa, there's Jamie Kern Lima. I'm visiting my pal.

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Oh my gosh, Oakley was still in high school and there he is at a ski race. Completely forgot that ski season was a year ago and I actually made it to a couple of them. Oh, there I am. I'm getting my hair dyed. Oh, I went out to dinner with friends. Oh, there's my friend's new puppy. There's a lot that I forgot. I forgot that, oh my gosh, my friend got a new puppy named Honey.

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She's now like the size of a horse. I completely forgot that that happened this year. And this is just January. Oh, I forgot about this. Here's another one. I did a yoga class with flamingos walking around. I mean, talk about a crazy experience. And there was this one particular moment where I was standing up and you're supposed to be all still.

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And honest to God, a flamingo came up and put his beak over my shoulder. I mean, that was crazy. I completely forgot about that. And guys, I am only on January 15th. And look at how much I forgot about already. And you wanna know what this shows me? It shows me that time with family matters. Do you see how excited I got as I was talking about these celebrations and these memories?

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And you wanna know what else that shows me? It shows me how excited I got about all the new things that I did, like the flamingo yoga thing. That was one class that lasted 50 minutes. And it's still something that when I see the photos, it brings me a lot of joy. That's pretty cool.

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I want you to really embrace what I'm saying because now what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to my camera roll and I'm just going to put in this year 7,000 photos. Actually, there's 6,927 photos when I put in 2024.

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And as I scroll through this and I start to jog my memory of all of the things that happened this year, what becomes so apparent, and you're going to absolutely love doing this ritual every year of taking an audit, which is really the process of taking your life in, like allowing yourself to relive it.

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week by week, month by month, photo by photo, you're going to see just all the ups and downs and the places that you went and the people that you saw. And you might see that you didn't go anywhere. That in and of itself is a really important piece of data. Maybe your life is too same old, same old. And that's part of the reason why you feel stuck.

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And I'm going to tell you something. These seven questions, they're going to unlock it. They're going to teach you all the lessons and all the wisdom and all the things that you need to know to create the plan to make next year one of the best years of your life. So you're ready to audit the last 12 months with me? Of course you are. Let's do this.

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And it's going to be staring back at you in your photos. Maybe you're going to pull out your camera roll and realize you only have 100 photos for the whole year, which probably means you haven't been that present. You know, one of the things that's really cool about doing this podcast is the number of people that I get to meet. And my life wasn't like that two years ago.

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My life, I felt like very isolated in my work. I felt like I was constantly traveling. I felt like I wasn't learning as much as I wanted to learn. And when I did my audit with Chris two years ago, I'm like, I need to change this. Holy cow, I'm seeing another highlight. So our daughter Kendall played at Carnegie Hall.

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And here she is with her buddy, Phil Cook, who accompanied her at this big folk music thing. And just this week, she was down in Durham doing sessions with Phil and a bunch of his musician friends in Durham based on the relationship that they created in January. Like it just kind of opens up possibility for you and what you're going to notice. Again, the question is, what are the highlights?

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And I'm seeing a lot of highlights. What happens is it reminds you of what brings you joy. And if you don't see a lot of highlights, that's okay. That's okay because that's data and it's something you can change. And there have been plenty of years over the 20 years that Chris and I have gone through this audit where I've said, this has been all work, no play. I don't see any friends here.

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I didn't go anywhere. I didn't see my family as much. I'm not smiling in photos. I got to change something. But I just really wanted to give you a sense of what it feels like to sit down and give yourself this gift of just spending time with yourself and the life that you've lived this last year. So... What were the highlights?

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Well, there were an awful lot of photos about the process of writing the Let Them Theory book. I have been head down on that puppy for the entire year. And so a huge highlight is that I actually got that thing done.

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that two days ago it was published, that the cover is sensational, that the content is incredible, and that more importantly, all those late nights, all of the times I broke down crying, all of the photos of me where I look bloated and my mascara is running and I'm exhausted and the gray hairs are coming in and I've been living in the same pair of sweatpants for three days, that all of that hard work paid off.

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And then another huge highlight, our family climbed Mount Katahdin, which is the mountain that is the end of the Appalachian Trail. It was an extraordinary experience. And so that just kind of gives you a sense of what does it sound like and what are the highlights. And I'm going to give you one other highlight.

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On my phone, there were a tremendous number of flowers that I stopped and took photos of. And a highlight for me is that I had, for the first time in my life, I'd planted a cutting garden, which basically means I'd taken the time to plant a ton of tulip bulbs last spring. And this year they bloomed. And there were so many photos, like I'm literally obsessed with flowers.

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And what does that tell me? Well, the reason why highlights are important is the things that make you smile, the things that make you look back with fondness. It's not just the accomplishments. It's the things that make your heart warm. And that's important data because you want more of that in your life.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am thrilled that you picked this particular episode to listen to because you and I are about to do a process that I call the yearly audit. It is something that my husband and I have done for 20 years. We now do it with our kids. It is a game changer. And I first talked about this a year ago on the podcast.

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If you look at the last 12 months and you can see the things that made you smile or made you happy or that brought you more peace, then you're gonna want to bring more of that to your life in the next 12 months. That's an example of how you use your own life as data to help you create a set of directions to what living the best life for you in the next year looks like. And that's personal to you.

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You may be listening to me going, flowers, That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well, then that means it shouldn't be part of your set of directions. But don't you think it'd be stupid if I don't include it as part of mine? Of course it would be. And that's why we're doing this audit. And that brings me to the second question that you're gonna ask yourself.

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And you're gonna be able to answer this very quickly because you're gonna have just scrolled through all of your photos and through your calendar. And that second question is, what were some of the hardest parts this year? Now, last year, the hardest parts for me is that I was in full-blown menopause. I felt like I was a Twinkie on two legs in terms of my waist was gone. My pants didn't fit.

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I had like a fanny pack around my front, only it wasn't a fanny pack. It was actually my stomach filling out my pants. And I just felt completely disempowered. The other low point, other than my health, and this is also part of my health, I spent way too much time working. Like there were just, when I looked at the low points of 2023, oh my God, like I didn't see my friends at all.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I just read this book all about friendship, and it dives deep into something super fascinating, which is the science and art of conflict in friendship. And the research on this is really clear. See, friendship for women, it's totally different than the experience of friendship that you guys have.

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And then when a friend comes to you and is like, I didn't even know you were struggling, you're like, well, you should have, you know, you just kind of feel this sense of, well, you should have known.

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But you never said anything.

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Well, I also just keep, I don't know why the word silent treatment is coming up. Yeah. But I feel as though if a woman feels like she's not getting the support that she deserves from another female friend, one of the go-to immature behaviors and behaviors that create conflict and tension is you withdraw. And in your research, did you see a lot of that, like the tendency to pull back and

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Sort of silently expecting that somebody's then going to come and ask you what's wrong so you get the support and the attention that you want?

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As you're listening to Danielle right now, you're probably thinking of people in your life, friendships where this has happened, where you're recognizing that either the first affinity, which is symmetry, disappeared or something shifted it and the person no longer became same. I'm in it too.

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And there's a reason why we all struggle with this. It's not you. In fact, there are three factors that are required that are unique to female friendships. And these three factors are what create deep and close female friendships. And guess what? The same three factors are the reason why friendships end. Here's the reality. Female friendship doesn't just happen.

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And whether you viewed them as a threat or they started talking down to you, that that frenemy thing starts to come into play. Mm-hmm. And then I certainly am experiencing as you're talking about support and the sense that, well, I'm not getting the support and you should know what I need because we've been in this close one-on-one relationship. And then you start to resent the person.

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So you pull away.

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When I was reading your book and I read secrecy is one of these affinities of a female friendship that make it either very positive or very negative. I was like, secrecy? Wait, what? And then all of a sudden I realized, wait a minute. To the women I feel the closest to, we always joke, you'll be my best friend forever because you know too much about me. Otherwise I'd have to kill you.

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You know what I'm saying? That's right. But there have also been moments where close friends of mine have been struggling. And I find out six weeks later that something has been going on. And my first reaction is anger that you didn't let me know. Yeah. Why am I hearing this from somebody else? And so I realized I never thought about it in the context of it makes you question yourself.

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how close you actually are. It makes you question whether or not this person trusts you, whether or not this person feels that you're somebody that they can lean on. And so it makes perfect sense, but it's so counterintuitive.

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And it's also not only important, it's essential. It's what's going to help you create a meaningful life. And we're going to talk about it today. Hey, it's your friend Mel. I'm so fired up that you're here. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so excited about our topic. I'm so excited that you're here with me. It's always an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

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Well, what I love about this framework is that when you put it in the context of all the other research in terms of the trends and the tendencies of how boys and guys connect, whether it's in groups where you can be a little bit more anonymous, things are a little bit more casual, you're bonding over the big thing, you're doing a lot of stuff together versus women who tend to bond over kind of intimate conversations, one-on-one shared experiences.

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You can see why if the connection is grounded in those three deeper things and you feel connected to somebody because of this reciprocity, so to speak, why you start to have this very intense feeling, because we've all had it, where you've been super close friends or you've been part of a friend group of women or girls, and then suddenly... you feel like you're on the outside of it. Totally.

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And it feels like a deep betrayal and heartbreak and you're not quite sure why, but I think you explained why. Because the intimacy that is demanded in female friendships is very different and it's also the source of all the conflict and the tension and the friction that starts to happen.

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Well, I also think with the support piece, it's interesting because when you go through a struggle in your life, whether it's in a relationship or a health scare or maybe you lose a job or something's going on with one of your kids, you tend to withdraw.

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And then you do feel a little bit, or at least I have in periods of my life where I struggle, like what I'm going through is a burden to other people. And so I don't want to share. And so there's those moments where you withdraw because you actually need support, but you're embarrassed or you feel just the heaviness of it. You don't want to talk about it.

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But then your friends are left wondering, where'd you go? Yeah. Where'd you go? And so I can see how each one of these factors, it really gives you both something to look at that makes it not personal, but also something to look at it so you can be more compassionate with other people. And you can be more compassionate with yourself because everybody's changing all the time. And so is your life.

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Do you have an opinion about friendship breakups? Like, do we need to actually stop being friends with people? Yeah.

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Why are they so difficult? I'm thinking about a friend of mine that was my most favorite human being when I was in college. And we even to this day have matching tattoos. And we had a very bad breakup. And this was over 30 years ago. And I still think about her. Is that normal? Why am I doing that?

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Because I don't think about the boyfriends that I had huge breakups with, and they were inside me for crying out loud. And I had the love drug inside of us. Why is it the breakup with a female friend? Because my husband has grown distant from people. He's had breakups with people. He doesn't think about them. Why do we do this? Am I normal? Danielle, that's what I'm asking you. Yeah.

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And if you're a new listener, I want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm I'm so glad you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

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You made me have a bit of a breakthrough and epiphany about this topic. As I was listening to you and I was thinking about my friend, it made me sad about who I was at that period in my life and the fact that she distanced herself from And it reminds me that I was not in a great place and I was not a good friend.

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And because it's unresolved, it keeps that part of me in some way kind of alive inside me. Does that make sense? Totally. And that if she had come back into my life, It sort of feels like it helps with the acceptance that you've grown as a person. And that's why I also feel like I probably hold on to this a little bit, that I have a lot of regrets about how I acted.

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First of all, you probably don't have a lot of time, but the fact that you found time and made it to listen to this means you value yourself and you also want friendship. And I gotta tell you something, if you're here listening to this because someone forwarded this to you, you know what that tells me? It tells me that you have people in your life that really love and care about you.

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I was like that clingy, possessive, lying, jealous friend. Oh my God, thank God you and I didn't know each other back then. And I'm a different person. And so there's something about romantic relationships that I'm able to forgive myself and move on. But when a friendship ends, you don't really quite ever replace somebody in that category in that same way. Do you know what I mean?

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Danielle, I want to take a quick pause. Let's give our sponsors a chance to say a few words. And I know as you've been listening to this that women in your life are coming to mind. Maybe old friends that you've lost touch with are coming to mind. Maybe there are women that you wish you were closer friends with. Share this with them.

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This is an extraordinary resource that will bring you closer to the young women and the women in your life. And so be generous with it. I know I'm going to be. I cannot wait for my daughters to listen to this. I'm going to send this to my mom.

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I'm going to send this to my best friends, to some of the friends that I don't talk to very often because I know this information is going to help them as much as it's helped me. Alrighty, don't go anywhere. We're going to be waiting for you after this short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. Thank you for sharing this. Thank you for still being here.

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Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that is going to help you or someone that you love create closer female friendships. Danielle, what I love about your book, Fighting for Our Friendships, is that you not only go straight at this and you unpack all the things that we, or I'll speak for myself, I got profoundly wrong. about navigating female friendships.

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But what I also love is that the same three-part framework that you say is present for all deep connections between girls and women. It also explains what's missing when you start to feel conflict and frustration. And so let's go to conflict. Let's talk about all of the things that are really challenging about female friendships.

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And, you know, if I turn to page 44 in your book, there's this concept that you talk about, and we even have a term for it, former friendships. Mm-hmm. I don't think I'd ever hear my son or my husband say former friendships. And yet when I read your list, the roommate turned bestie that I outgrew. The college friend who phased me out when she got a boyfriend. Oh, that was me.

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Coworker bestie who disappears when you start working somewhere else. My mom friend, who I grew close to but eventually lost trust in. The friend I had to release because she didn't reach out enough. The church friend who cut me off because I didn't reach out enough. I have every one of those or I've been that.

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And the person who sent this to you, they did it because they want to be closer to you and they want you to feel empowered in your life. And you know what? That is exactly what a good friend does. And this is a really important area of my life, friendship and friendship with other women that I've gotten wrong for a very long time.

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You know, one of the things that I keep thinking about is that friendships don't end. They just sort of come in and out and they're flexible. And it's helped me be less judgy of myself. Mm hmm. But it's interesting that the research says that friendships for girls and women dissolve faster and more often than it does for boys and men.

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And I do think the missteps start to happen when we're little and we're forming friends for the first time. Because I'm not sure anybody ever teaches you how to make friends or why you need friends. One question I have before we kind of go backwards is why are women so jealous of each other? Or at least why do we, why can you tell?

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Like guys might be jealous of some guy's car or his house or vacations or, you know, that he's just a good dude that a lot of people like, but you don't feel it.

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I've also gotten it wrong as a mom as I was trying to counsel my daughters through those really traumatic things that can happen in middle school and high school. And then I read a copy of this book that I'm holding right now called Fighting for Friendship, The Science and Art of Conflict and Connecting in Women's Relationships. And I learned so much.

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You know, I want to build on that because I have a theory about this. Okay. And especially given that you were a English teacher in a high school and you're a mom and I'm a mom of two daughters and you have a daughter. Here's my theory. So if you take it as fact that the average age that a girl gets her period is the age of 12, like that's a huge life-changing event.

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And what happens when you get your period, at least in today's world, is it's like a very public event. It seems like everybody knows in your class, all the girls know, even the boys know, and your body starts to change and you feel this loss of control. That is very public. And then there's an added layer around the fact that what do people say when you get your period? You're 12 years old.

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And what are the first thing they say? Oh, well, now you're a woman. Oh, you're a woman now. So you become sexualized. And that also, I believe... in a very subconscious and subtle but not so subtle way, changes your relationship to other women. And I personally believe that two things happen. Number one, it's been very well researched, as you know, how girls' confidence drops off a cliff.

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between the age of 12 and 14. The age of 12 boys and girls have the exact same levels of confidence. By the age of 14, girls experience a 46% drop in confidence. But check out what they're also saying in this research about friends, that 60% of girls by the age of 14 are not confident that they can make new friends. I mean, in this study, here's a girl who's 18.

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This would have been somebody in your English class. I'm not confident in making friends because I'm afraid of making mistake. I feel like everybody's so smart and pretty, and I'm just this ugly girl without friends. I feel that if I acted like my true self, that no one would like me. And there's this memory that I have of being in middle school. And it's kind of when the dances start.

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And I don't know if it's like this now. I mean, I'm literally talking 40 years ago. But when the slow songs would start, there's this phenomenon where the guys pick a girl to dance with. And it's in that moment that you start to see that there are girls that get all the attention. And I know in those moments, I literally hated my best friends because they were getting picked and I wasn't.

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And I feel like there is something that happens then that really in many ways makes you feel like you're against the other girls in competition for something other than grades, other than sports. It's this social and sexual status that feels largely out of your control.

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This is the essential guidelines to creating and keeping female friendship alive in your life. So I called up the author. Her name is Danielle Byard Jackson. She's a best-selling author. She's also the director of the Women's Relational Health Institute. She lectures around the United States on the topic of friendship.

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Yeah.

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At least that's... And I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts about that.

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Well, it's an important thing to talk about because I think these feelings are very normal. And when you don't know what to do with them, you either aim them at yourself or you aim them at the other person. The other thing I wanted to talk about related to middle school is that, you know, this elementary innocence and kind of navigating friendship and everybody's trying to figure it out.

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We're all in it together. What the heck is that phenomenon exactly? that happens in middle school where everybody's like, I need a BFF. We're biffles. And you start to become defined by, oh, well, Danielle is Susan's best friend. And even the seeking out of that alliance becomes something that is very prominent for girls that age. But I don't see it happening in the same way for guys.

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What is that about? Yeah.

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And she is here today to take away the mystery and the drama and break down why female friendship matters. She's going to share the unspoken challenges of female friendships, the differences between male and female friendship, how to navigate conflict and challenges, and even... When you need to let go of the friendship that no longer serves you.

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What would you say to the person who's listening to you right now, who either experienced not having a best friend or not feeling like they were part of a good friend group, or they're seeing somebody that they care about experiencing it right now?

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And if you're a parent or you're just worried about a girl or a young woman who feels like she's just been iced out of her friend group, I remember when our daughters were in high school, one of my close, close friends, her daughter was going through something and her friend group dropped her. And I just remember how many tears her mother and I had Over what do you do?

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I mean, this kid has been basically, you know, the words feel so dramatic, kicked out of, excluded, just dropped by a friend group. What would you say to a person that feels like that's just happened to them?

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And so what do you do or what should you say or do you not say anything at all? Do you just give the person space to grieve? Do you acknowledge it? I don't know what to do.

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And also, you're going to learn, how do you bring up something that bothers you? How do you deal with a friend who's controlling, possessive, jealous? How do you deal with yourself when you start being like that in friendship? I know I've been that way. All of these experiences are normal. And the good news is, it's not you. you got to understand the research.

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I mean, how women make friends, what we expect of our friends, why so many female friendships have drama and tension. Frenemies, you've heard the term, right? We're going to dig into the science of why that's a thing. And you're going to also understand how they become so deep and intense and yet so fragile. You'll even understand why female friendship is often competitive, toxic, mean.

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I had one of our daughters use this term, a ladder, and she was remarking about how she's in this period of her life and she lives in a part of the world and is in an industry where she says that it's like you're with your people on a certain rung and we're all in it together. And we commiserate and we're bonded and we're kind of sort of supporting one another.

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But then the second somebody goes to the next rung in the ladder, either in this city, in a social climbing group, or in this industry, and you get some success, it's like the rung that you were with disappears. Yeah.

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And even seeing that, that somebody that you thought that you were close with and next thing you know, you're part of a bigger group and next thing you know, you're on the outside, but they're staying on the inside and they're, that is a painful thing because you lose the group and you lose the person that you were close to before the group.

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I think one of the reasons why... There is a lot of frenemy and conflict and jealousy is because the process of not feeling as close to a friend is really confusing and painful. And so turning somebody into a villain and blaming their behavior is is I think in many ways your subconscious attempt to actually cut off the pain that you're feeling because you can't explain it.

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And once you do, you're going to also realize there's something you can do because you deserve amazing female friends. And today you're going to get the roadmap to creating them. So please help me welcome Danielle Byard Jackson to the Mel Robbins podcast. So Danielle, I am so excited you're here. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you for having me. This is awesome.

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If it's just, we're just growing apart, that doesn't feel as complete as they asked me out, she's now like thinks she's better than me. That is, I think, something that we do to process that confusing feeling that I used to be close to you and now we're just not and I don't know what to do with it because I miss that closeness. And this isn't making sense.

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So I'm going to just leverage some anger and some judgment here. What do you do when you're jealous of your friends?

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I think the difference- Because we try to, we then avoid somebody, right?

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If somebody's renovating their kitchen, I now can't deal with being at your beautiful house when I go home to my hovel. Like somebody's getting pregnant and I just had a miscarriage. I don't want to be near you. You know, somebody just got engaged and I just broke off a relationship of two years. I don't want to be near you. And I struggled with this profoundly.

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I wanted to be happy for my friends. Sure. I wanted to celebrate and be able to authentically feel joy for somebody else. And there are moments in my life where I could not access it.

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Oh, I have so much to learn for you. I feel like I'm about to get a therapy session that is going to help me understand My past and struggling with female friendship and as a mom watching my daughter struggle with female friendship. And so I'm just thrilled you're here.

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You know, I had a friend share with me, her child was going through very, very significant and difficult mental health challenges. And she said to me, and I will always respect and admire her for this. She said, I'm so happy for you, but I am pulling back.

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on our friend group because every time I see one of your kids moving through life and hitting these milestones of graduating or going to prom, it is such a painful reminder that my child cannot right now. And having her say that instead of her forcing herself to show up and put on a fake smile, which of course then you just feel as this weird conflict. And I think we do that a lot.

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I think that is something where you said it, your lack is so big or the struggle that you're in is so big, you can't actually authentically access the joy or happiness to express for somebody else. That is a normal thing that happens to us. And being able to say, I love you and I wish I could show up and I can't, but no, I'm still cheering for you.

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And I haven't done that in my life, but this person in my life did. And I was like, wow, I totally understand this now. And I feel closer to you. Right. And I think we're afraid to admit these things because we're going to be shunned. And it's the opposite that happens. Danielle, I just want to hit pause real quick so we can give our sponsors a chance to say a few words.

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While you're listening to our sponsors, I know that a number of your friends or people in your life have come to mind. Share this with them. This is an incredible conversation for every woman, every girl to be listening to. It's a free resource. It's so empowering. Don't go anywhere because Danielle and your good friend Mel Robbins, we're going to be waiting for you after a short break.

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So stay with me. Welcome back, it's your friend Mel, and today you and I are spending time with Danielle Byard Jackson. She wrote the bestselling book, Fighting for Our Friendships, and she's unpacking the research that is incredibly eye-opening about the unique nature of female friendships. So Danielle, how do you address a friend who just disappoints you?

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Whether it's in the category of not offering support, like, you know, you experience a loss of a family member and they don't show up. They missed your wedding or they miss your birthday. They hated your boyfriend or your girlfriend or they currently do and you're aware of it. They're not happy for you when you get that raise or you're able to buy your dream car.

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I'm thrilled to dig into your amazing book, Fighting for Our Friendships, The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women's Relationships. Here's where I want to start. I'd love to have you talk to the person who is with us right now. They've either hit play in this episode and taken us on a walk or you and I are in their car or at work or in their kitchen as they've got their earbuds in.

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What do you do in those moments where your friend's behavior or energy or attitude or lack thereof is disappointing?

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Actually, on page 45 of the book. Yes, you do. Do I? You've got great research about this. Oh, my God. Let me read to you from your book. This is on page 45. Another reason why our friendships can be fragile, especially compared to male friendships, is because we have high expectations. A review of 36 studies found that women wanted more from their close relationships than men did.

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especially when it comes to reciprocity and self-disclosure, which means we are setting and expected to meet high standards. And this means that we also register more relational violations, identifying more wrongs in our friendships. One study researchers observed, college dorms to monitor the number of roommate reassignment requests, most of them came from women. Yes.

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And so this research to me suggests that we have these super high expectations of people. A lot of times we don't even tell them what they are. And then when they don't meet our expectations, the research bears out that we literally are finding wrongs.

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Well, see, I think this is a lot of what you also write about in your book, is that all of this conflict and these moments that are normal and human and in every friendship, it's a give and a take. We both have a little bit of responsibility here in terms of what's happening, that it's either an opportunity for you to distance yourself or an opportunity for you to lean in.

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And actually join in with somebody. And, you know, one of the things is I was really researching the let them theory. And I know personally, I have lived in fear of disappointing people my whole life and bent myself into knots to try to make sure nobody's disappointed. Is that all of a sudden it occurred to me, well, isn't it a good thing if a friend is disappointed that you didn't show up?

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And I'd love for you to tell the person listening what might change about their life and their friendships and how they feel about themselves if they take everything that you're about to share with us to heart and they apply it to their life.

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Yeah.

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doesn't that just mean they wanted you there?

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Right.

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Isn't that a sign that somebody really cares about you and that you matter versus what I turned it into my whole life, which is somehow it's some indictment against me? Like, if you can look at it that way, if somebody respects you enough to say, I was disappointed, that you forgot my birthday and they want to talk to you about it. To me, that's a green flag in a friendship. Absolutely.

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And, you know, unless of course you're like, you bet that, you know, they're doing all that stuff. But what are warning signs that a friend is not or no longer good for you?

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As I'm listening to you, I'm like, you're right. Why do I ignore those things and stay in it and work harder?

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Yes, and it requires you to take responsibility for your part in it. And what I love about that is that I hate it when people label other people toxic. There's behavior that's toxic, but the finger pointing and the ghosting and the just dropping a friend without a conversation, in my opinion, that's a sign that you're the one that's immature and engaging in toxic behavior. Mm-hmm.

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That not actually trying to work it out or have the conversation that there's something off with us. Let's take a little space. And as I've gotten older, my opinion about friendship ending has changed. I just feel like friendships are very flexible. They come, they go.

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If something ends at some point in the future, a decade from now, who knows what's going to happen and how life might bring us back together.

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But leaving the door open for people to change and for you to change and for circumstances to change has really helped me in being a better friend and being more compassionate and seeing that in any relationship, I own at least 50% of what's happening here because my energy is just as powerful as the other person's energy. And as I change, things are going to change.

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One of the things I really loved about your book, and I cannot wait to share this conversation, especially with my daughters, I would love to talk about having a friendship with somebody who's controlling or possessive. Because I do think that's a predominantly female thing in friendship. What do you do if you've got that friend who has your location and you're at the dinner with somebody else?

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And all of a sudden you get that text, hey, I see that you're right by me. What's up? Like, how come you didn't call me? What are you doing? And you're like, oh my God, like, dude. Yeah.

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Danielle, what do you do when you have a controlling friend and their controlling nature is really starting to get annoying?

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An invitation, not an accusation?

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You just literally I just felt like this class in session with Professor Bayer Jackson. I mean, I just felt like a teacher who sort of redirects you with a smile.

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You know, one of the things that I felt after reading your book is I felt like I understood myself better. I felt validated and seen in terms of the struggles that I had making friends when I was in middle school and high school and college keeping friends. And so I'm just super excited about this conversation because especially talking about that tension and frustration.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Here's a big one. You've been invited to something and your friend has not. So what do I do if I know this group is not going to invite this person?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I'm curious, as an expert and researcher on friendship, how do you foster long-term friendships with women, especially as you're moving through different phases of life? What's the research say?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Mm-hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That thing that we can't quite put our finger on, why are girls mean? Why is it hard to connect with women? Why do friends come in and out of my life? Do I need to have a breakup? What is up with the tension? Why do I miss people that I'm no longer friends with? I can't wait to unpack this. And where I want to start is you have such an interesting career. How on earth did you find yourself...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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One of the things that I love that you've said a couple times is, first of all, you normalize how common it is to not have a, quote, best friend, but to encourage us all to look to the greater group.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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and the collective to provide all the different things we need from friendship to support to someone to talk about like global warming, like whatever, the issues you care about, somebody to have fun with, that you don't just rely on one person. And one thing I'd love to know is how can someone feel closeness to a new female friend?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You also had interesting research about how women's friendships in particular when you're younger are a huge predictor for how your relationship with your significant other is going to play out. Can you say more about that?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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For those of us that look back on those years and go, oh God, I was terrible at this. I was the jealous, competitive, one-upper, gossipy. We can change, right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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in a career where you're writing books, researching and teaching about female friendship?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What I love about your book, Fighting for Our Friendships, is that you not only go straight at this and you unpack all the things that we, or I'll speak for myself, I got profoundly wrong about navigating female friendships. It also explains what's missing when you start to feel conflict and frustration. And so I love the example that you give in your book. And it's on page 110. And

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You need to send this episode and conversation and Danielle's brilliance to every person in your life that is getting married right now. Because let me read this to you. You're talking about this sort of mismatch where you think the friendship is more important than it is to the other person. I see this play out most often in bridal parties.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Several brides-to-be or would-be maids of honor come to me for the sensitive dilemma of bridal party selection. There's tension when one friend assumes she'll be asked to be a bridesmaid but realizes the bride has no intention of asking her. Brides come to me with tearful pleas to help them figure out how do I choose? And then how do I deliver the news to those who won't be included?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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When somebody has a wedding, why is there so much conflict and drama inside people's friend groups?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And by logistical, How do you not, because literally you're like, well, look, my husband only has like two friends. So I can't have 17 of you standing there. My sister will kill me if it's not just her. Like I know how expensive this is. You've been in 17 weddings this summer and I've just decided to keep the bridal party small.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You also shared research in your book that I've never seen before that women replace about half of their friends every seven years.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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When I hear that research, I was so encouraged because I'm like, oh my gosh, it's a sign you're growing. That's a sign that you're changing and so are the people in your life and that's cool. And I love that visual that has been so widely shared. I have no idea who to credit for this of the fact that there are three types of friendships.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Just think of a huge tree and you're the tree and there will be tens of thousands of leaves. that sprout in different seasons and then wither and fall off. And there are branches that are very strong that are there through the standing of time, but some will break due to the weather and the pruning.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And then there are the deep, deep roots that you often don't see, but you know are there if you need them that keep you grounded and strong. And

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Every one of those aspects of friendship is critical because even the leaves that are only there for the season, these are your sorority sisters or your work friends or the people that you were a young mom with or friends that you were on a soccer team with in high school, that they were there for a season.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And while they were there, they absorbed the sunlight and they gave you energy and they were part of what made you you. And then the season changes and your life changes. And those friendships wither and fall to the ground. That doesn't mean they weren't wonderful.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It doesn't mean actually that they're not still there with you in spirit, but that you are growing, which means new leaves are going to come. New branches are going to grow. And those roots that are meant to be there are going to be strong, even when they're not right in front of your face. I mean, some of my most favorite people, I'm so mad at them because they don't live anywhere near me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And what I'm also realizing is maybe that's a good thing because I'm a very deep person. And if I live next to you, I'd be up in your grill all the time. You'd probably think I was clingy and possessive and annoying. So it's probably better I only see you once a quarter. Danielle, you've shared so much with us.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I cannot wait for the person listening to really take all this wisdom and research and shift how they're showing up and shift how they're thinking about friends, both past and present and future. And I also can't wait to see how many women they share this with in their lives and young women.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If there's just one thing from absolutely everything you shared with us that you would love for the person who is listening to do, what would it be?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, I can see the emotion when you talk about that. And I know I feel it. I know the person listening to this feels that fear of growing isolation and discouragement in people's hearts. And what I know is that women have the ability to change anything. And we cannot allow our hearts to grow cold. And this is a moment where...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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We need to turn toward each other and rely on each other and support each other. And what I love about everything that you have done in your work and in this book, Danielle, is that I truly understand and feel more compassionate about the little me who struggled with friendship.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So if you've ever struggled with female friendship, or if you're listening right now and you're like, wow, there's someone in my life that's currently struggling, whether it's your sister, your daughter, your girlfriend, your wife, your roommate, your friend.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I feel understanding and compassionate as a mother to daughters about how difficult it is, but how it doesn't have to be. And your framework offers us a way to see what's happening through the lens of both, this is why female friendships are so unbelievably powerful and rich and deep and important. And it's also why they can feel so fraught with confusing and hurtful behavior.

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And everything that you shared, which is so amazing, is it comes through a lens of both understanding, matter of fact, compassion and empowerment. It is fully within your power as you listen to this to create better friendships. It's fully within your power to leave the door open.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's fully within your power to lean toward the people that disappoint you or upset you or that trigger jealousy or lack in you and actually talk about it. That the connection... that you deserve and that society needs that happens one person at a time is something that you can create. And now that you've shared all this with us, we can. And so thank you, thank you, thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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for hopping on a plane, for being here today, for doing this research and for sharing it with me and with the person listening. You truly made a huge difference. Thank you for having me. Of course. And I also want to thank you for... Thank you for making the time to listen to this. Thank you for sharing this with your sisters, your nieces, your daughters, your female friends.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And how amazing is it to know that one of the most important things that creates a meaningful life, which are your relationships, you have the ability to create better ones. And I hope you do. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to tell you that I love you. I'm proud of you for listening or watching this. And I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And relationships based on the research are what create a better life and meaning in your life. So take everything that you just devoured and learned and go apply it. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. Let's see how the flight patterns go today. Oh, there's another plane. Okay, here we go.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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They must have changed the flight patterns. I see I warned you about this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Trace, what am I supposed to do? What's wrong with my hair?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know what else I need is I got to clean my glasses. I literally look like I sat on them. I don't know what is on there. I am a hot mess today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I see. I can't. I've got a hump. What's happening?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

It’s Not You: The Real Reason Adult Friendship Is So Hard & 3 Ways to Make It Easier

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Cameron's like, I got a hump. Cameron, thank you. You're a good friend.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay, I put my rollers in, girl. Let me take a sip of water since I just feel gravelly. Yeah, I burped. That's why I don't eat eggs, Cameron, typically in the morning. Okay. We thought we needed more stamina today, but we were wrong. Interesting facts about how women... Oh, my Lord. Sorry, guys. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How about your friend who's losing her mind right now because she is so worried about picking her bridesmaids and there's so much drama around it? I'll tell you, you're not the only one who's having difficulty right now with female friendships.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You just threw so much at us based on the research that made perfect sense. And if you're listening and you're a guy and you've always wondered, why does my partner or my girlfriend have so much drama? Why did my sister have so many problems? There was so much in what you just shared with us, like even just the fact that it's true. Like if I think about my brother or my husband or my son,

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They do kind of just travel in groups. And like, if I think about myself, it's like since the history of time I've been searching for that best friend, I've been pairing off into one person. And I'm sure we're going to dig into this.

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But even just understanding that the research is really bearing out, that we tend to go one-to-one, and the men and boys in our life tend to operate in groups, and what you just said I thought was genius about how if you're in a group, There is a bit of anonymity.

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But if you're with just one person or small groups of people that you feel this deep sense of belonging to, there's a lot more vulnerability and a lot more that seems to be at stake. I know I've certainly felt that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, and you also said this thing about how male relationships, friendships tend to be more like a cousin.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And your relationship with the girls or women in your life is more like a sibling and sisters fight. That's right. And sisters have drama. That's right. And yet, there's a big difference between what happens with your sister and what happens when there's tension or jealousy or possessiveness with a friend.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this conversation, it's going to change the game because you're going to learn so many interesting facts about how women make, break, find, and keep friends, how it's different than how guys do it. And regardless of where you are in friendship, you're going to love this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, one of the things that you've researched that I'd like to start with is that you found that there's this framework. There are three affinities, you call them. that are necessary parts of female friendship. So can you explain that?

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But does it also happen that it's not that she's necessarily talking down to you, but that you're also beating yourself up because you're like, oh, well, she's better looking and everybody's attracted to her or she's getting more money than I am.

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Oh, that was me. I was a walking friendship red flag. Oh, yeah? You could have had an entire section of this book called Melanie Schneeberger, which is a mouthful of a name. That was my maiden name. I saw everybody as a threat. Mm-hmm. I literally don't think I had that symmetry in a lot of my friendships. And I can see how if you don't feel like we're in this together,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I'm saying whether you feel right now like you got no one, you just got kicked out of your friend group or you're bummed because you never see your female friends, or maybe you're sad because you're growing distant from people you were once close with, or you're just wanting to create new, awesome female friendships. Well, I want you to know What you're feeling is normal.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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then it would create this conflict and tension in your relationship with somebody else.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Every time you say something, I'm thinking about a dynamic that's negative with a former friend or something that I did. Because even when you said that sentence about support, I mean, how many times have we sat alone?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Have you ever had a full circle moment? You know, a moment in life where you realized, holy cow, I've come full circle from where I was in the past. Well, I am so excited for our conversation today because I'm inviting you to experience a full circle moment with me as it happens live here in the studio.

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I am thrilled that you're here. We're going to experience something so extraordinary together. And if you're brand new, I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. This is the perfect episode to be listening to right now because we're going to be digging into the topic of purpose. of discovering your power. You're going to learn so much from our guest today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, and that's the work that you do with people around the world. Well, I think you succeed in helping us come home to ourselves. Yeah. I can't believe you haven't been back to Boston. Yeah, it was a difficult city for me. Yeah. Well, then I, or at least you haven't been back to Cambridge. I did today, and it was really... What was that like?

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And what's available to the person listening right now or to somebody that they love if they're suffering deeply in this conversation today? You're okay right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Just this moment, a breath at a time, I believe you. It's true. And I also believe that you're going to walk us through exactly how we can believe it for ourselves too. That's my dream. That's the dream. Well, that's what we're going to do today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so I would love to have you just talk a little bit about how you think about the experience of being stuck in life and even moments in your life where you have felt stuck. Yeah. And we'll just start there.

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This is a woman that I've admired for 19 years. She has changed my life. She's going to change yours today. And the fact that you hit play on this episode tells me that you're the type of person who values your time, and you're also interested in creating more meaning and purpose in your life. And I love that. And today, you're going to get that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's so hard to do though. And I mean, and you literally coach people through this. And I think about moments in my life where I have felt so stuck and also directionless, right? Like I don't know what I should be doing next. And so could you speak directly to the person who's listening that feels that right now?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Like they're not only feeling that frustration and is this all my life is gonna be in the sense that there's something else, but I don't even know how to access it. Yep. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Because we have the number one life coach on the planet who is here today to help you make your life better. If you feel stuck, if you're looking for some guidance, if you want to figure out what your next step is, or if you just have this feeling that something that you're doing, it just isn't working. You're just not quite where you're supposed to be. Well, you're in the right place right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I feel it as like this tension in my chest, like it's right between my breasts. It's almost like this like plate right in here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Let the fear, the scaredness be there.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay, fantastic.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Be huge. Be scary. I have zero resistance to this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Tell me everything you're feeling. You know what's interesting about inviting the suffering in as a person and taking the feeling in your body and visualizing it into something bigger is the second that you said that, the kind of tension in the chest mushroomed into this like nuclear cloud, which ironically- made it feel smaller.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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You're not having to hold all that pain anymore. You're just letting it be. And what ended up happening, because this is a particular fear about something going on in my financial life, is that the second that I kind of imagined it big and you invited it in to sit with me, it immediately started talking. Oh, really? Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And it brought me right back to 15 years ago when I was on the brink of bankruptcy. Really? And like, I'm afraid because I've been in a place where I've felt out over the tips of my skis. I've been in a place where I've been really scared and struggling financially. And it's not at all the same situation, but it's triggering.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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You're supposed to be here with your friend, Mel, and you and I are in for the coaching session of a lifetime. And let me just give you the context for how amazing this is. If you wanted to hire the person who's in our studio today, you couldn't book a session with her. Like that is how renowned she is. But today she has hopped on a plane and flown across the country and she is here for you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That you've just spent 15 years getting yourself out of financial debt and making yourself feel safe because you've been really good about savings and you are about to do something stupid.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So what is the, like, I can't even wrap my brain around this. I'm like, wait, so what is backwards about it's about to?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Oh my God, that's beautiful. It always works. Can we try that with a breakup? Yes, please. So I watched my daughter go through just a wildly painful heartbreak this summer. Ouch. And The biggest fear is that it was too, it was like, I'll never find love again. Yeah. Or I've made a huge mistake and I blew it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so if we take this truth and wisdom and you invite the suffering in, and let's just take the statement that a lot of people feel, I'll never find love again. I'll never find somebody who loves me. Yep. What is the opposite?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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It's just what happens. Go test it. Well, I also think there's a lot of science to this. There is, yeah. Because aren't you training your mind to show you what you're looking for? Aren't you more open to it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Absolutely.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Because I believe in both the magic and the spiritual and the woo-woo. And you can explain it, and you do in your work over and over again, about how this is also a tactic to reprogram your mind spirit and your brain to be open to this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Dr. Martha Beck is the number one life coach in the world, and she's here to speak with you and me and to help you live your best life. Dr. Martha Beck is a world-renowned life coach who holds three sociology degrees from Harvard. She's a six-time New York Times bestselling author. She is famously known as Oprah's life coach, and she's also been my life coach for 19 years, but from afar.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I just, everything that comes out of your mouth is like, oh my God, I felt my chest collapse. like almost like falling backwards, like a trust fall when you said you're about to make the most brilliant decision.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And I think you're right. Look how aware you are. Look how experienced you are. Of course you're going to make a brilliant decision. But what I love about this conversation is that when you see somebody that you care about who's stuck or going through heartbreak or who is afraid because they're taking a risk, when we see that person from the outside,

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We credit them and give them the benefit of all the things we know to be true, which is, yes, this is breaking your heart in a million pieces. And there's love all around you and there is love in your life and you will absolutely find love again. And you will be loved, but it's hard for you as the person stuck in it. Oh my gosh. I am just blown away by being with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I know as you're listening, you're thinking the same thing. I cannot wait for you to share this with the people that you care about. So here's what we're going to do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Let's hit the pause button and we're going to hear a word from our amazing sponsors, but don't you dare go anywhere because Martha Beck and I are going to be waiting for you after a short break and she has so much more to share with you. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I have the honor of getting coaching from the extraordinary Dr. Martha Beck.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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So is being stuck different than not having a purpose?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And this is the very first time that I'm meeting her in person. Through her books, her conversations, she has helped me get clear about what I want and has inspired me to take bigger and more purposeful risks. And she's here for you to share her best tactics, tools, research, and insights that are going to help you have the breakthrough that you need and deserve.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Or I'm always gonna be alone or it's never gonna work out for me or I'm never gonna be good enough. Like that is one lane. Yeah. And using these tools, you're now accessing and flipping the suffering.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Is everybody's purpose different? Yes. Oh, you said that with such certainty. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And how do you discover this? You talked about the rhino hunting and then you take people back and say, okay, we're going to do that exact same process. Do you look backwards and start to look for tracks and clues in your past or do you look forward?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, you know, I'm so glad we're going there because I have been stuck so many times in my life, and a lot of times, and I know you find this with people too, When you're stuck, you're stuck. And you're pretty convinced you are. Yeah. And you're scared you're going to stay there. And when you hear somebody like you say, we got to track your joy. You got to move toward freedom.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So please help me welcome the extraordinary Martha Beck to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I just have to say, I am... unbelievably thrilled that you're here. I can't believe that I'm sitting across from you, actually. Pinch me, pinch me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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When you're that stuck, it's sort of like, what the hell does that even mean? Right. Like, I can barely get out of bed. I don't like the job that I have. I can't pay my bills. Yeah. So, and that's kind of where I was when I was sitting in that audience. And you gave me a taste of that, oh... There's something that feels different here. I'm going to move toward this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And that simple tool I came up with was, what would Martha Beck do? And I'll just do that because a woman has a life that feels different than mine. And so I'm going to just kind of move toward that, even though I don't even know what she would do. I'm just going to guess what she would do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And so if the person listening is in it with us and they're also like, okay, yeah, but what do I do when I wake up? What do I do? in my life right now to find these small pockets of joy in my day? Because I'm assuming that's where you start.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I feel like I... know you because you've been in my life for so long. And I just am eternally grateful that you got on a plane and you are taking the time to be with me and the person who's listening.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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What were some of the little things when you started doing this for yourself after being bedridden for 12 years that were pockets of freedom for you, just to give the person listening a sense of what you're talking about?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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How long did it take? I'm like, I'm sitting here asking these questions on behalf of the skeptic because you want to believe that it's going to work, right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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But your mind is so against you at times. Oh, yeah. That even when you get these little morsels where you feel like it is true, if I watch a movie, I'm no longer in this bed because my mind is in the movie. Yeah. And it's a small way to find freedom. And as I start to unshackle myself from these painful thoughts and I bring freedom into my experience, things open up. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Well, that is the topic of your new seventh instant New York Times bestselling book, Beyond Anxiety. And I would love to have you explain that tool of flipping from that kind of anxiety spiral to how you tap into the creative brain. Because when you are stuck, when you do feel like you don't know what your purpose is, anxiety does take over. Oh yeah. Because you're so worried.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What if I never get unstuck? What if I never figured out what if I die and I wasted all this time? What if I never even figured out who I was or what I was meant to be? And this is where all your work with people and what you've written about for years really helps people figure out. And so what do you want us to know about curiosity and creativity, especially for somebody who's stuck?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I am so excited that you're here because there are just so many different topics that I cannot wait to learn from you about, from how you find your deeply personal sense of purpose, to how you can use the tools that you write about in your new book to manage anxiety, to learning how to live a life that's truly authentic to you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I'm stealing that. Hear me now, understand me later. That is amazing. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Wow. I just love you. And I'm so honored that we get to be coached by you and to feel so inspired by you. And thank you for being here. I want to take a quick break so that we can just let all this sink in and so that you can share this with people that you care about and that are sponsors who are bringing you Martha Beck at zero cost.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And at the same time, you're going to be getting the coaching session of your entire life. from one of the world's most renowned life coaches and New York Times bestselling author. She is here in our studios. I already have chills, and I'm going to tell you why.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And I've thought a lot about how I wanted to start our conversation, and I'd like to start it by telling you a personal story.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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can share a few words with you, but don't you dare go anywhere because I can tell that Martha Beck is just getting started. I mean, she's got so much more to say to you and you need to hear it and we'll be talking to you about it after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. You and I are getting coaching today from the extraordinary Dr. Martha Beck. So,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Over the years, you've worked with so many people. What are the kind of top most painful thoughts? Like if you had like a list of ones you hear over and over, and we all kind of think we're the only one, right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so I think it would be very validating for someone listening to hear just some of the top things that are the most painful thoughts people have shared with you over the decades and how you flip it. Okay, so number one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Martha, I have been waiting for this day to be able to get you on the Mel Robbins podcast because I know that everything that you have to share and teach us today about finding your purpose and living a life that is authentic to who you are is going to change not only my life, but the person's life who's listening to this conversation right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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What happened? Oh, my God. I love it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And I've been thinking a lot about, okay, how do we start? There's just so much that you cover and so much that you have to teach us today. And I realized I wanted to start by telling you a deeply personal story. Okay. So it would have been early 2005 and I was a young mom with two and I had left the practice of law and I had studied and become a life coach.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You have this incredible exercise that you walk people through that I do think can help you feel and see the light. And it's called ideal perfect day.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I immediately thought a decade, 10 years. OK, so is that a good thing?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I had a small business coaching individuals and people that ran small businesses. And Oprah Winfrey was doing a big event and it was at the Boston Convention Center.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Yeah, it's a wide planked wood floor that's sort of, it's kind of, it's not shiny. It's like worn.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's very, like, just kind of modern and unfussy and beautiful. Are there photographs on the walls? No, there was like a painting or a photograph. Okay. What does it look like? It was like a big beach scene.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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The ocean.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And yeah. And I thought, well, what better place to go to prospect for clients who feel stuck than at an Oprah Winfrey conference? And I walked in and I sat down in a chair and a woman that I had never seen walked on stage and she started talking and it was you. Oh my goodness. And... There was something about you and I don't even know what the hell you were saying.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Um, well, you know, what's interesting is I walk the beach. I have a big thing of water. I practice yoga. I read on the porch. Um, Who's there? I'm just hanging my family and my parents. Oh, that's... Can you feel how free that is?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And as you track it, you create it. I wanted to ask you about the senses. Yeah. Because what happens when you tap into that creativity and you really navigate through a day like that using only senses? Because I did catch myself at times and I'm sure as you were listening, and you were imagining your ideal day, you caught yourself thinking too. Oh yeah, yeah. And it takes you out of the feel.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah. Why do the senses matter and why do they help you unlock your sense of purpose and joy and tap into this creativity? I'm so glad you

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You were talking about purpose. And I remember just feeling the stress of having two kids and trying to grow this business. And my husband had just been laid off and he wanted to go into the restaurant business and you were up there and there was something inside me. And you talk, I'd never thought about it as peace, but everything went quiet.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. Just pure feeling.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Was that surgery the moment that you made the decision that you were not going to live like that anymore?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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What do people discover when they even just go through a day and they don't tell a lie? And I realize there's a difference between Being harsh and truthful and telling the truth with a little bit of compassion. Yeah, you learn to be very gentle about the truth.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But what do you find that when you go through a day of integrity and you tell not a single lie, what are the things that come up for people over and over again?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I don't even remember a word that you said, but I remember feeling I want to be doing that. And I didn't even know what that meant. And so when you walked off stage, I picked up one of the magazines and I learned about you and I started reading your column and I said to myself, I'm going to just figure out how I can write books or how I can speak to people.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Some of the work that you've done that has truly changed my life is about learning how to follow your North Star and finding that true North. Yeah. Can you explain to the person listening in case they're in a place in their life where they don't even know who they are? It's kind of an odd thing to say, but I think it's a very common experience to go, I don't even know who I am.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Or I've lost myself in this relationship. I've lost myself in work. I... have lost a sense of what's actually important to them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Let me make sure I got this. So suffering is a gift because it stops you from going any direction other than your true north. It's almost like it spins the compass. Yes. It just says not north. Absolutely not north. And what you've been teaching us is invite the suffering in and then flip it to the opposite.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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You know, I have, I don't know why, this sense of someone listening that is really scared to either end the relationship or to quit a job and start something or to do like you did and say, this doesn't work for me and I'm going to tell you. And risk having people say, well, then I don't love you anymore. And they do. And they do. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How can you use this true north to help you make the right decision, even though in that moment it always feels so wrong? You know what I mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I wouldn't be sitting here in this chair hosting this podcast if 19 years ago I hadn't walked into the Boston Convention Center, sat down in a chair, looked up, and a woman I had never seen before walked on stage, and everything she said that day changed the entire trajectory of my life. Who was it? Martha Beck. I've never met her. I've never told her that story.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And it was you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And I remember... I was sitting there one night and somebody forwarded me an email. And I was up late at night kind of working and the kids had been put to bed. And this email comes across my inbox and it's from a friend. And she said, hey, Mel, I work in PR in New York and I see that somebody is looking to interview a life coach for an article in this magazine.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I just...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Beautiful. A lot of people wake up in a life that just doesn't feel good to them. Oh, yeah. And what would you say to that person right now?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're nodding. Has it happened to you? The furniture rearranging. When I have been the most stuck and miserable, especially when I have no money. Yeah. I literally rearrange the furniture wherever I live all the time. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. And it became like a joke in our family because the kids would come home from school and they'd be like, how did you move the couch by yourself?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And I'm like, I've got a lot of energy. I'm really stuck right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Well, you know, what I love is that you have so many tools. Because you're validating the experience and actually applauding its arrival of being stuck or feeling like your life doesn't fit or having no purpose. And Martha Beck is literally giving you a standing ovation and saying, welcome to the transformation. It's so exciting.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So I scroll down and I notice, oh, well, this is two months old. And oh, I have none of the credentials. And oh, it looks like the deadline's already passed. And then I said, well, what would Martha Beck do? And I hit reply and I responded. And it was the kind of beginning of everything changing in my life. And it all began with that moment that I had an experience with you. Oh, my goodness.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And get ready for the haircut and the furniture moving around as you're shifting energy and recognizing this. But even just that exercise, of the ideal day. Yeah. Gets you out of the thinking trap and into what you write about in your book, Beyond Anxiety, which is asking yourself, what can I create? Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And that exercise through your senses and visualization of the ideal day, you experience something different. Yes, completely. Before it exists. Yeah. And so if somebody's hanging on to every word... right now, what is the most important step that they could take away from this conversation?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Oh, I love that. Do you have something that you recommend when... You're working with somebody who just has a lot of fear. Yeah. So you can do the visualization. You can understand the true north. You can truly keep asking yourself, what can I create? But then the fear and the anxiety and you're just like you and I have been. Right. for years.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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We've got you. I've got you. Yeah. You know, you started by saying that you went back to Cambridge. Yeah. Yeah. where you were when you were 25 years old and were expecting Adam, which is also the title of the first book of yours that I ever read. Yeah. And what would you go back and tell? yourself at that age?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Wow. Yeah. If the person listening who just spent a bunch of time with us takes just one thing from this and you could wave a magic wand and pick what it would be, what do you want them to take away? You're safe.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And I've been waiting 19 years to meet you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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And there's a ton of us out here for you. Better believe it. What are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I do. I love you. Thank you for changing my life. Oh, thank you for changing mine. You're beautiful. And you're beautiful. Wow. Martha Beck.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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What fun. And in case no one else tells you today, I wanted to be sure to tell you what Martha told you too, which is I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And there is zero doubt in my mind. If you take anything that Martha shared with us today and you pour it into yourself, you will. Tell me when you're ready. You're good already? Oh my gosh.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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No, it's great. No, fantastic. I am so excited that you're here. There is so much I cannot wait to share. My Lord. I am so excited that you're here. And there are so many things I want to talk to you about that your work has... Oh, Lordy. And I can't wait to get into that. And I've thought... Oh my Lord.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Well, I love you for starting The Spark. And one of the reasons why I was so excited beyond just my selfish desire to have the full circle moment and to meet you and thank you is that you more than anybody in the world helps people get unstuck. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's true.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Find Your Purpose & Design the Life You Want

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Like so much of your work is truly about finding purpose and learning how to find your way, especially when you have no peace, especially when you don't know what comes next or life has thrown something at you. Can you just expand a bit about your personal background and how you got to the point where you were writing all of these New York Times bestselling books?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because there was a lot of personal history that led up to where you are now. I would just love for you to share a little bit about your background. Sure. In case the person listening is getting the gift of meeting you for the first time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So you had suppressed all of the memories of it and then it erupts when you're... You were actually at Harvard at the time, right? Yeah, I was finishing my PhD.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And she is here to teach you all about how you're going to discover your purpose, how you need to trust where your life is taking you. And I have no idea where this conversation is going to take me. But I know it's going to be one of the most extraordinary and amazingly impactful ones of both your and my life. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, and you not only did that, but to live in your integrity and to live your truth and to set yourself free, you also wrote about it. Yeah. And it became a massive New York Times bestseller. I was hoping no one would read it.

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Yeah. How did you go from that experience in your life and in your career and in your marriage and publicly to then making this decision that you would put yourself out there even more and help everyone else find their way because you have and your work represents around the world a pathway towards purpose, a way to find your authentic self, a way to truly find the courage to speak your truth.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I mean, that's what you represent in the world. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Hey, it's your buddy Mel. I am so excited that you chose to hit play on this episode and that you're here today with me because this is one of those conversations that has a before and an after. After you learn what our expert has to say today, you're going to go about your life differently.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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I love that you asked a question. Why is it that as my best friend, you respect me the least?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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It's so sneaky, Kwame. Well, because for me, like if I were in that situation where here I am giving friends a lift, They're now like arguing about some rule that I have, like put your seatbelt on. It's a reasonable rule. And now they're calling you a baby and you're taking it. And the old Kwame would just take it and not bring it up.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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But what's available to us today in terms of what you're going to teach us is in those moments where you feel slighted or disrespected or, you somebody is treating you in a way that is less than you deserve, how do you collect yourself and respect yourself enough to actually say something in a way that's effective? And asking that question

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Why is it that you're my best friend, but you respect me the least? I could see using that with your partner. I could see using that with your children. I could see, like, because I'm realizing as we sit here that my kids use that on me. They're like, you know, mom, you know, just because you're stressed out at work doesn't mean you should be taking it out on us. I wasn't at work today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And just that kind of question, why are you taking it out on me, all of a sudden shines something on the other person without you engaging in conflict.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Let's just unpack that right there. So a lot of times the person's reaction. So their emotional immaturity, the name calling, the passive aggressive response, the tantrums, their reaction that we live in fear of. that reaction is actually the reason why the relationship must change or it needs to end. Wow, unpack that for me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Well, what I also love about what you're saying is it's very clear that what you're actually going to teach me and the person that's with us today is how to respect yourself and how when you feel that bubbling up inside you, it's not a sign that you should avoid something. It's a sign that you're quietly being disrespected and you need to respect yourself enough that

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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to learn how to lean into these situations. Before we jump in, I wanna just give some definitions because you're clearly a super smart guy as the founder and director of the American Negotiation Institute. And this conversation though, while it's going to be applicable to your career and it's applicable to like striking a deal, it's actually way more relevant to your relationships.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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And so I want to really, for my sake, dumb down the terms. And so even in your book, I'm reading on page 11, you say negotiation is just any conversation where someone in the conversation wants something. That's all that it is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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That's all that it is. And in the example that you gave with your buddies, you just want them to respect you and not call you a baby for making a simple request and to act like some mature, thankful adults instead of a bunch of dickheads that are trying to get a ride from you, right? Like that's not a lot to ask, right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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So when you use the word negotiation, what we're actually talking about is just a conversation where you want something. That's it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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And if you're a new listener, I just want to personally take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so happy that you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You're the kind of person who values your time and you invest it in things that can help you improve your life.

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And so as we dig in, I'm going to start to invite you as you're listening and learning from Kwame to think about conversations you're avoiding or to think about things in your life that you want that you're not asking for. Because we're just talking today about how to have a conversation when you want something. And you define conflict. Check this out.

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Conflict is just any conversation you need to have where you want something and someone has an attitude or you're nervous or there's emotion. That's it.

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That's it. And I love this because this is going to widen out our ability to learn from you. And so, you know, before we jump into the strategies and the tactics and role-playing, Kwame, I want to invite you as you're listening right now to think of a situation in your life right now, or think of a person in your life where there's either tension or

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Or there's some conversation you need to have at work, maybe with your boss. Maybe you've been thinking you need a raise or you want to change your schedule. Or there's a conversation that you need to have with a friend. You know, I asked our team this morning before you came in, okay, has anybody got anything going on? And there were a bunch of us in the room and the amount of stuff

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that people listed that were either things going on or that had been written in recently from someone listening to this somewhere in the world. Let me just give some examples because I want you to really think about a specific situation in your life because Kwame is going to coach us through this today. So for example, Siblings, asking your siblings to help with aging parents.

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These are difficult conversations. We're avoiding them. We have a lot of emotion around them. Another one that came up, a friend of mine is seeing somebody and the person they are seeing already has a girlfriend. So they are cheating. You know, and now this is an issue because it's a violation of my values. Do I say something?

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Bringing up with a significant other the fact that you want to move in or get married or have kids, like how you have this and you're nervous about their response. Getting your significant other to move to a different city with you. Talking to adult children about money.

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That you're maybe providing support to one of your adult kids by paying for their rent, but as you're giving the money, you constantly see them with a new outfit on. And so now you're starting to get annoyed. Here was another one. Having a roommate that gets up super early and constantly wakes me up because they're loud. I then wake up and I'm burning up in my room.

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I'm so mad that they have woken me up yet again at 5.30 in the morning. And I'm burning it up, but I don't want to have the conversation. I hate conflict. I stew about it. But by the time the end of the day rolls around and I see them, I'm not thinking about it. I'm not mad. And so now I'm not going to have the conversation. And then, of course, tomorrow morning it happens again.

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Maybe it's your mother-in-law and passive-aggressive comments that there is some area in your life where you're slowly disrespecting yourself because you are not saying something. Are there other examples before we jump in that come up, Kwame, in your work that you want the person that's with us to also know, like, this is a really common thing that's actually just a negotiation?

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And you also know that you deserve more respect in your life and you're here to learn how to get it. And if you're listening to this because someone shared this with you, well, here's what I want to tell you. I think that's really cool because it means that you have someone in your life that loves you enough to remind you that you deserve to be respected.

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Well, you know what's interesting about these spats that we get into? Yeah. Is that if you just take the instance of you're either living with a roommate or you're married like you and I both are, or you have a significant other, and there are things that are not feeling fair. Like for me and my husband, it is always about who's walking the dogs.

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or who is feeding the dogs first thing in the morning. And my husband believes that the burden falls on him. And what happens though, is he keeps waking up and then he keeps doing it. And he is silently resenting me because I am not stepping up. And I am not stepping up because this is not a priority for me. And I figure if the dogs eat at 5 a.m. or they eat at 9 a.m., they are fine.

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And I do not need to worry about this right now. But him not telling me. And again, I want to widen this out because this is simply a topic where my husband wants something to change. He is not having the conversation with me because he doesn't want to deal with my attitude or he doesn't think that he is going to get his needs met. And so he says nothing.

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And then over time, he knows he's disrespecting himself because he's not asking for what he needs, but instead he starts resenting me. And I've got examples of this too, where I'm holding things against him. Like the thing that I've been holding against him is that I've been working a ton lately because of this book launch.

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And I'll come walking downstairs at seven o'clock at night and he's, you know, in his office doing something and there's no dinner. And I'm mad because I don't want to eat cereal or eggs again tonight for dinner. But I'm not, like, I'm realizing I haven't had the negotiation. I just have this expectation. I don't communicate it because I don't want the attitude, right?

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And they wanted you to have this expert advice so that you can start to speak up and ask for what you need and negotiate the things that you want in life. And that's exactly what today's episode is all about. Learning how to have hard conversations. Because according to our expert today, The best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations.

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And then the resentment builds up. And just like the situation with the roommate that wakes you up, now you're pissed off. Or the boss that hasn't promoted you, now you're pissed off. And you haven't even respected yourself enough to have the conversation.

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I'm just going to go actually to the roommate example. Because the roommate example is something that even if you're not currently living with somebody, you have. And you've been in a situation where your roommate has done something that annoys the hell out of you. They're a slob. They smoke. They don't do their dishes. The friends come over and party. They don't clean it up.

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They get up early in the morning, whatever it may be, and you take it. and you're annoyed, and it burns you up, and you don't say something, or when you do say something, you're erupting, and it's not actually effective. If you fast forward 10 years, I think the danger is you go, well, I'm not going to be living with this person then, so I don't really care. You're talking about something deeper.

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By not learning how... to say something in these moments where you feel quietly disrespected or there's something that you actually want, you're not respecting yourself. And in 10 years, if you continue to stay silent and not respect yourself, then you are gonna be even more of a people pleaser. And this is how you learn the skill. This is what you're talking about.

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You weren't born this way, you built this. You know, in your book, you have four questions that you can ask yourself. So if you keep in mind this conversation that you know you're avoiding, right? With your partner or your roommate or a friend or something at work, okay?

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I want you to hear these four questions that Kwame writes about in his book, because I think these questions really help you parse out why you're avoiding it and tap into the courage to actually say something. Because we're so fast to be like, oh, no, no, no, I'll do it next week. Oh, no, no, no, I'm not going to say anything to my roommate. I don't want tensions to be even worse.

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No, no, no, no, no. But the tension's inside you. So here are the four questions. Number one, what will your life look like if you don't have this conversation? Number two, what will your life look like if you have the conversation and it goes poorly? would you be able to recover? Number three, what will your life look like if you have this conversation and it goes okay?

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And number four, what will your life look like if you have this conversation and it goes really well? Why are these questions so powerful?

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And you may have good reasons for avoiding conversations that feel like a confrontation. But here's what you're going to learn. Yes, yes, yes, you may want everyone to like you. But in life, it is so much more important to be respected. And that respect begins with you. See, right now, I just want you to stop and think. There's a situation that's bothering you.

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I am loving this conversation. And this feels like a really good point to hit the pause button because I want to give our sponsors a chance to say a few words. And I also want to give you a chance to share this with somebody that you love. But don't go anywhere because can't you tell Kwame's just getting started? Of course, he's just getting started.

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And we have so much more to teach you when we return. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are learning from the amazing Kwame Christian. He is the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute, and he is here teaching us three simple steps that we can use in our lives, our relationships.

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We can use them at work in order to negotiate for what we want. So Kwame, you know, in your book, you do write about the fight, flight or freeze response when you get stressed out. And you also write about the amygdala. Can you just explain in terms of your work, how do you describe the amygdala and what role does it play in getting yourself to have a difficult conversation?

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If I'm emotional, how the hell do I start thinking clearly?

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There's a conversation that you know you need to have. but you're avoiding it. And you probably have a really good reason for avoiding it. You hate confrontation. You just don't want to deal with the drama. You're frustrated and you're annoyed. And maybe you're worried that the conversation, it's not only not going to work, it might just make things worse.

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All right. Well, let's take one of these topics because... You know, I think it's when you and I are talking and as you're listening to Kwame right now, it's easy to be less emotional. Right. Right. Because you're not standing in front of your mother-in-law.

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You're not about to sit down and tell your friend that you have a real problem with the fact that they're actively cheating with somebody and it's bringing up a lot for you. And when you think about it or you're kind of just reflecting on it, you're not actually in the conversation. And I've had so many instances in my life where I've rehearsed it. Okay, I'm going to go in.

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I'm going to talk to my boss about this. Or I'm going to go in and I'm going to say this to my mom. And then I see them and I'm like, not today. And so... Can you learn to be less emotional?

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Because I often feel like it's easy to stay calm when I'm preparing for something, but the second it's time to do it and it's time to talk to my boyfriend or talk to my roommate, all reason goes out the window.

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Or maybe you're just the kind of person that cares a lot about what other people think. Well, here's what I'm going to tell you. It is time for you to learn a simple three-step approach to having these kinds of conversations because it is true.

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Okay, hold on. Everybody get that? So if you're at... This is a good one for at work because if you're the kind of person that... feels nervous talking in a meeting, you're with the majority. Like literally allowing yourself to be seen, allowing your ideas to be heard is a very vulnerable thing for people. And it's very normal to feel that way.

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So if you're also in a situation where you're dealing with a colleague that takes credit for your work, or you're dealing with a feeling that you're not being fairly compensated compared to your colleagues, which is also very common, your emotions are going to be high.

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And if Kwame says something that frustrates me or I don't want to hear or that's really annoying, you pull out your paper and you say, hold on a second. It's very important. Do you mind if I take a couple notes?

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Why do you do that?

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And while they think you're writing down what they're saying, you're basically going, what the hell is going on? Calm down. Respect yourself. You know, you're literally giving yourself the notes. And I can see how that's a way to keep you grounded. But what are you going to cue yourself to do when you're ready to speak?

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It's way more important that you learn how to be respected in life and you stop focusing on making sure everybody likes you and that everybody's happy with you. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to invite you to think about an area of your life where you're tolerating disrespect and

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Well, let's go a layer deeper.

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Because one of the things that you write about in your book that I found interesting, negotiation, which is just a conversation where you want something, isn't the art of deal making. It's the art of deal discovery, right? I love that and understand that in business because you can't just argue against somebody and expect to get your way the whole time. Right.

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Part of the back and forth of asking for what you need is discovering what's possible. If you take this concept of a conversation where you are going to be asking for something that you need and you're worried about the attitude, if it's not about getting what you want, what is it actually about?

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Well, I think for me, what I have learned the hard way is, By avoiding these conversations. I mean, I wasn't even a people pleaser. I was a chicken shit.

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I like literally, like if you, if I even sniffed a level of attitude or judgment or like anger in you, or if I thought something I was about to say was going to upset you, I would lie, cheat, steal, avoid whatever it takes to not have to experience somebody's negative reaction.

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or you're not getting what you want, or you're staying silent, or you're just not getting the support that you need and deserve. Well, our guest today is going to walk you through step-by-step these kinds of conversations in your life and how to start the conversation, how to diffuse the emotion, and how to get exactly what you want.

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And I think what I've learned the hard way by avoiding these conversations is, yes, you actually are disrespecting yourself. And yes, you do become a coward. And yes, you do start to resent other people because you think they should read your mind.

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And then when your roommate's waking up at 530 and banging around in the kitchen, or your spouse continues to leave the dishes in the sink as a gift for you in the morning when you wake up, or whatever it may be. right? Or your kids are leaving the nice laptop that you worked very hard to buy them for school open next to the bed where they're going to step on it.

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See, right now, there's something that you want and there's something that you need from other people, but you're not asking for it. Maybe you need help at home from your roommate or your spouse, or you wish your siblings would step up and do their part helping out taking care of your aging parents.

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Even like these sort of things actually matter because you not only disrespect yourself by not just saying something, but you also start to resent the other person. And that's not fair. And I have personally created a lot of conflict in my relationships because I wouldn't just lean in and be curious.

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And I'm going to share a little bit about something that my mom and I worked through where my cowardice in this like area of my life led to a big misunderstanding between us that literally kind of played out for a decade that didn't need to be there. And it was because I was scared of what I perceived to be her judgment.

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And I write about the story in the Let Them Theory book, but I'll just share it very briefly, which is when I first fell in love with my husband, Chris, I was head over heels, right? And I just figured I found my soulmate. I am so happy. And I remember when we got engaged, my mom was not as happy as I had wanted her to be.

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Like she was happy and positive, but there was just some underneath the, like, it's that silent, it's that thing that you pick up on, the eye roll when you order gluten-free, the snide comment from your mother-in-law, like the fact that you feel ignored or passed over at work every day, like that silent thing, it's like a rock in your shoe that slowly becomes a boulder.

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There was something that just felt like she wasn't that excited. And I asked her about it. And I just said, you know, I don't, you're just not as excited as I thought you would be. You know, what's up? And she said, well, I just, you know, I just, if it was my choice, he's not the person I would have picked for you.

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And so I said to her, because I was immediately pissed off and judgy, you know, I said, well, I'm asking for my sake that you act as if you picked him for me. And she said, no, I'm not going to do that because I didn't. And I have to give her props because she said the truth. And I have to give her props because she didn't, she was not hiding her emotion. She felt conflicted. She felt happy.

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but also not happy. Now, I literally started judging her and quietly kind of resenting her because I'm like, why can't you be more supportive? Why can't you be more effusive, right? And so this goes on for years where I just never addressed it, that I just don't feel like you're quite happy that this is the person I married.

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Kwame Christian is recognized as one of the world's top negotiation experts, and he is also one of the most popular expert instructors on LinkedIn Learning. He's had 1.2 million people take his courses. He is the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute,

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And I have to say that as we're sitting here thinking, I take full responsibility for this because I'm the one that avoided the conversation. And then, of course, you create a story about somebody. And then, of course, there's this kind of invisible distance between the two of you. When I finally leaned in, I started to realize it's not that she didn't like him. It's not that she wasn't happy.

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There was something so much deeper about That was going on for her that I never even bothered to be curious about. Like I never actually asked her why. And if you could have picked somebody, who would they have been?

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And the answer was like so sad when we finally had the conversation. She was just sad that I had fallen in love with somebody who lived so far away. Yeah. That was it. And I was so afraid of the judgment and pissed off because I thought this person should behave a certain way that I missed out on just being curious. What's underneath that? Because I know that's not the kind of person that you are.

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What's up? And if you look at her and my dad's story, they met in college, just like you and your wife. Mm-hmm. And they went to college far away from where they both grew up. And once they met and got married, they actually never moved back home. And so they grew up raising my brother and I, and I grew up nowhere near family. And she was afraid.

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because I met somebody that lived far away, that it would mean I would never move home again. And I never did. And so, you know, she was right. And I think about what's possible because, you know, we're all so afraid of each other's emotions.

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And if you're willing to just give the other person credit for being a human, and you're willing to ask, like, what's underneath the things that you're feeling, you know, because I know that you're a good person and that you love me, there's this connection that's available, but we're so afraid of it. And so, you know, I take full responsibility for it.

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You know, when I finally leaned in and we talked about it, of course, she and Chris have a phenomenal relationship. She always jokes that you're my favorite son-in-law. And then Chris was like, I'm your only son-in-law. And then he goes, well, you're my favorite mother-in-law. And he's like, I'm only... But it wasn't anger and judgment. It was actually sadness.

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And because I disrespected myself and disrespected her by not being curious, I created this kind of weirdness between us that didn't need to be there.

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It's an organization that trains Fortune 500 companies on the art of navigating difficult conversations and the science of negotiating for success. He is also a lawyer and he is the host of Negotiate Anything, which is the world's top podcast on the subject of negotiation.

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And I didn't know how to feel. all of the wave of complicated stuff that was coming up for me. And I didn't know how to handle an answer that I might not like. And, you know, that brings me back to those four questions. And one of them goes, what will your life look like if you have this conversation? It goes poorly. Would you be able to recover? Of course I would.

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And, you know, the irony is, is that the very thing that I was worried about, which is judgment and distance, is what I created by not having the conversation. Right. And never even imagined what would your life look like if you have the conversation and it goes well.

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Alrighty, this feels like a great moment to hit the pause button and let everything that you've shared so far, Kwame, which is a lot, just sink in while you're listening to our amazing sponsors. Take a moment and share this with somebody.

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In fact, sharing this with the person that you need to have the difficult conversation with is probably a fabulous first step to laying the groundworks to making that conversation easy. And don't go anywhere because we still have so much more to get into, so stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I'm so thrilled you're still here.

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Thank you for taking the time to listen to this and to learn about this important topic and to share it with the people that you care about in your life. So Kwame, here's the next thing that I want to talk about. What are the three steps to having a difficult conversation?

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I love that. Let's break it down step by step. The three-part compassionate curiosity framework is the three parts I would do with myself, which is what you actually need to be doing because you're the one holding yourself back from saying something.

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And you're the one letting your emotions rob you of the opportunity to both respect yourself and have these conversations. And it's also the same three steps you go through once you've done this for yourself and To engage with the other person who may or may not be a jerk or emotional or whatever. Exactly. Okay.

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He's also written this awesome book, Finding Confidence in Conflict, which is also about how you use the science of negotiation in your life to get what you want. And one other thing that I love about Kwame is that he's going to take all this information and science and all these strategies and translate it into a three-step formula that you and I can apply in our lives, our relationships.

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Oh, that's true. And it's not like a tactic or a trick or manipulation.

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Which, by the way, I think about the years I spent wanting to be liked and not respected. I think about the years that I... you know, was a people pleaser, which basically means what I've come to terms with for myself is when you're a people pleaser, you're manipulative because you are behaving in a way that is intended to manipulate whether or not somebody likes you.

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And when most people use the term people pleaser, you literally are like, I'm weak. I'm this, I'm a people pleaser. I just want to be liked. And no, no, no, no. When I started to go, wait a minute, Mel, you're a world-class manipulator because you just want everybody to like you. So you bend and twist and lie and stay silent to manipulate what people think. That's not cool. And when I got the ick,

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factor versus the wimp factor around people pleasing. I was finally like, I gotta, I gotta change. Like I cannot have this be the default. And I love what you said, Kwame, about like, do you want to be liked or respected? And if you want to be respected, you better learn how to respect yourself. And I love this framework. How is the compassionate curiosity framework

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different than the way other people may teach you to kind of get what you want or to, you know, kind of win the battle or deal with people that are difficult?

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Okay, well, let's add one more scenario in.

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Because I want to make sure we land each step.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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And let's use the roommate one. Because I think everybody can put themselves in the place of you live with somebody. They wake up early.

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They're knocking stuff around. The dogs are up or they're just loud in the room next door. They turn on the lights in the bedroom that you're in.

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Okay, good. Then we picked a good one.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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And the roommate then leaves. You're now awake two hours before you wanted to be. You're stewing. about it. You want, you, you like are thinking about the text. You want to send, you're thinking about the note you're going to leave. You just are like stewing about it. How do you do step one with yourself in that moment?

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Disrespected, pissed off, um, annoyed, uh, Just sort of like the, how could they not know? You know, like that. Like, why do I even need to say something?

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So by naming it to tame it, we're also switching which part of the brain we're using.

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Heck, we can apply it when we negotiate with our landlord over rent. And because he's also married to his college sweetheart for 14 years and is the father of two kids, These are also the exact same strategies that he and his wife use to work through all the difficult conversations that happen between a couple who are living together and raising a family.

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Oh, and you also said that the more emotional you are, the less you can think. And the more that you think, the less emotional that you are.

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So the first step in any moment where you're triggered or you're getting emotional or you're recognizing that you're avoiding something or you're not asking for something or you're going silent, all of those things is to name it, to tame it, because then we are going to switch from emotion to thinking.

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So now I've named all this stuff, but I'm still stewing.

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A little bit better. And I have not sent the text.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Oh, it could be. I'm so upset because I work really hard and I have a much bigger job than that person and meaning the stress level. And I've got more bills that I need to pay. And I've asked about this before and I've been told that it wouldn't happen. And why do I need to ask again? And I need my sleep.

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Okay, so I've just done the three steps on me.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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So I don't become, as my daughter likes to say, a tornado and rage text at somebody. Yeah. And I've taken a deep breath, but I also now recognize that I'm not going to do what the old me did.

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I'm not going to just do the let them part and not do the let me part where I actually say something.

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I'm not going to do what the old me would do, which would pick sides and pit me against them. I'm now going to do what the new me is learning to do, which is I'm going to respect how I'm feeling. And I'm also going to respect that this is an opportunity to learn this skill that you're talking about of actually having a conversation that feels a little uncomfortable and Now it's dinner time.

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I've calmed down, but not entirely because we know these things kind of like, I'm going to take a with them approach. Yes. They walk in the door and now the amygdala spikes a little bit, right? Because it always happens. Now we're in it. You're about to get in the game, coach.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Kwame Christian, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Can I do it from my room while they're in the kitchen? Like, how do we do this?

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Oh God, okay.

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I think it is the hardest part.

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I am so excited that you're here. And here's how I want to start our conversation. I would love for you to speak directly to the person who is with us right now and tell them exactly... what they might experience about their life that's different if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us and teach us today, and they apply it to their life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay, great.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Naked facts?

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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That sounds like a conversation you have with your wife, not with a roommate.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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So give me the example with the roommate.

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Now, should I be talking about how their day went first, like kind of ease into this?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Okay, so you got a little warm up, like they've been home, by the way, this morning, 5.30 a.m., your alarm went off.

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And It woke me up and I had a hard time going back to sleep. I love living with you, but I would love to have a conversation about this so that we both enjoy it. That's it. That's it. So now we go through the three steps and you're now doing this with the other person because we've already named our own feelings, which is a way to get us to go from emotion to thinking.

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We've already like gone even deeper as to what is actually causing this, right? And then what was the third step?

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I'm going to work with them, not against them. I got to remind myself, the problem's out there. We're over here. We're going to work on this together. So now I go with emotion. How do I do this with another person?

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Great day at work.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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So I just wanted to have a quick- Why didn't you just go back to sleep?

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Well, I gotta get up early.

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Like I'm not supposed to use alarm?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Well, it seems like you're just attacking me and I'm just like trying to get up and like go. And I've always been a morning person. I mean, I've been this way since college. And Kwame, I don't like I'm not frustrated. I'm just I'm just like trying to have a conversation here. Why does everything always have to be about emotion?

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Well, I just kind of feel attacked. I mean, I just got home from work.

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I'm trying to think of, like, how somebody who's got a narcissistic personality would answer this question. Yeah. I'm just tired. I've had a stressful day at work. I'm sorry about it. I'm just like, okay, so what is it you want me to do?

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Now's a good time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Well, what do you need?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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It's interesting because I realize I'm starting to, you just held up two. What's two?

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And then back off on the conversation. And then they like lean in and go, no, no, no, we can have it.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Yeah, because I didn't want to be called out for being frustrated.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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You know what's interesting about this?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Even doing a role play in a fake situation actually made me feel those emotions. Yes. You said come at me. I didn't even have to try because I already was so reactive emotionally.

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And I also know that that's why most of us avoid these situations and conversations, because it's easy to complain to your friends about your disrespectful roommate than to just address it and try to work through it together. You know, there are so many difficult conversations because they are emotional, whether it's about politics or

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or family matters, especially in today's world, the things going on globally. How can you navigate these conversations without being overwhelmed by your emotions?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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See, life is full of frustrating situations, but oftentimes you think it's just easier to say nothing. Maybe you have adult kids and you don't mind supporting them by helping them out with rent, but every time you see them, they're in a new outfit. Or you feel overlooked at work, but you don't know how to successfully negotiate a raise. Or there's a conversation you want to have with your partner.

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How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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What is the question?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Wow. So Kwame, I wanted to ask you a couple specific scenarios, and these are where you might feel like you don't have any power. My daughter was recently looking for an apartment in New York City, and the rental market is so flipping competitive. So how do you negotiate rent when you're in a very competitive market?

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I bet nobody's ever even asked them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone

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Amazing answer. All right, let's say you've landed a new job and you want to negotiate the offer. What is the best way to do that, Kwame?

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Wait a minute.

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I don't think people believe that.

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So the offer that you get, the employer is expecting that you will come back.

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What about if you want to position yourself and successfully negotiate for a title promotion or a salary promotion where you currently work?

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That's great advice because I think the mistake that I've made in my career and that as an employer, I see people making over and over is that just expecting that you're doing a good job in the job is the reason you're getting promoted. And the hard truth that you need to hear is, no, that's the reason you're getting paid.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Let's talk about in a relationship, doing the laundry, helping with dishes, not being such a slob. So Kwame, your wife called me and she would like to know, what do you do When you live with somebody who's a slob or they don't do their dishes or you wish they would help with the laundry or just generally help with the kids or around the house, how do you negotiate effectively?

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Well, I think the reason why this is so important is that the thing that you don't say in the beginning is the thing that ends your relationship over time. Because what happens when there are fights about dishes or the taking care of kids or how much you're helping out, that we hold that in and we don't have the conversation.

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Kwame, there was so much that you just said. I want to make sure that I highlight a couple things because when you said I wasn't born this way, I built myself into the confident person that you see today. That to me is such an incredible thing that's available. To all of us.

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And when we do have the conversation, we're so pissed off and tired that it comes out as an attack. And... I didn't understand for a long time, because I'm the messy one in my relationship, that it made my husband feel like a maid. And there's nothing wrong with being a maid unless you feel like the person that you're sleeping with and married to treats you like one.

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You know, I think a lot of couples fight about this, like whether or not you're in a family that grew up cooking dinner and having dinners together or you're from, you know, a background where you're doing more takeout food. And then you get together and you think you're right because you cook and they think they're right. They're now defending themselves. Right.

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And they shouldn't have to defend themselves if they've never had skills modeled before. And you're now missing this opportunity to actually solve the problem together, which is what do we actually want to create together?

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I love that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love that because I do feel that we do reduce each other and we get into these parent-child dynamics because we go right wrong. And then we start telling our partner what to do instead of asking them to help us do things. Right. Beautiful. So Kwame, if you could speak directly to the person who is listening and

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And if they just take one action from everything that you shared and taught us today, what should it be?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Kwame, what are your parting words?

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And, you know, as you're listening, whether you're on your walk right now or you're driving in your car or you've got Kwame and I in your earbuds at work, like the idea that you don't have to be born with confidence, but that you can build this skill is incredible. And I also have to hover on the fact that you called yourself a recovering people pleaser. And not a lot of men say that.

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Kwame, I cannot thank you enough. Congratulations on everything you're doing out in the world. Thank you for hopping on a plane and coming to Boston. You have made something that has been very hard and difficult for me to do in my life, which is ask for things that I need when I'm worried about somebody's emotions or attitude. Very easy. And that's a gift. So thank you. Thank you.

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And I also want to thank you for finding the time and making the time to be with us today and to learn from Kwame. I know that the roadmap that he painted, it is simple, it is memorable, and you have everything that you need to have the conversation. And there's no doubt in my mind that if you do, he's right. Your life is going to get easier and it's going to get better.

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And you know, I want that for you. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. And I love the fact that you spent time listening to this and that you're investing time in improving your life and your relationships. I also believe in your ability to get better. And I believe that because you actually listen to a podcast like this.

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And I'm also going to be waiting for you in the very next episode. The moment you hit play, I'm going to be there to welcome you in. So I'll see you in a few days.

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Which one? The one going in?

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Wait. Oh, gotcha. Okay. Great. Okay, great. Awesome. All right, we should pull these off. And that one has lipstick on. Thanks, honey. Okay, great. Well done, guys. We're good? Woo!

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Mommy nailed it, everybody. Yay! Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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So can you take us back in time to when you were a people pleaser and just talk about what you used to be like? Because I think that's really important because I know that by the time we're done with this conversation, it's very clear you're confident. It's very clear you're an incredible communicator.

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It's very clear that you can probably out-negotiate anybody on the planet and be smiling at the same time. And I have no idea that I just literally gave in everything that you asked for and I didn't even realize it, Kwame. So I would love to start with the moment in your life where it really kind of was that I am a people pleaser. I care what people think. What happened?

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Maybe you want them to get a better job or it's time to get married or just show more initiative in the relationship. Staying silent isn't working, but how do you bring it up?

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So there's an interesting thing that you said early on where you said one of the most difficult conversations you need to have is the one that you need to have with yourself. And I think every one of us can relate to the story of just wanting to be liked.

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of staying silent because you want to keep the peace, of not having the hard conversation because you don't want people to be pissed off or to not be your friend anymore. And what's interesting is that on the outside, you're the most successful kid in school. But on the inside, as you write in the introduction, that it felt impossible to stand up for myself.

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This led me to agree when I disagreed and avoid confrontation at all costs. Our greatest weaknesses often lie in the shadows of our greatest strengths. Although I was gregarious, fun-loving, successful, and popular, I was completely lacking in confidence when it came to critical conversations in my life." I hated myself for it.

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And I'd love for you to just talk a little bit about that tension because perhaps the first difficult conversation we're going to talk about is how you're silently giving up on yourself. And if you could just speak directly to the person listening, particularly about that tension about wanting to be liked. and then how that backfires and not liking yourself.

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Well, our expert today, the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute, Kwame Christian, he is here today in our Boston studios to teach you three simple steps to setting up any difficult conversation you need to have. Now, these three simple steps are going to help you speak up, ask for what you need, diffuse any emotional reactions, and get what you want.

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And so if you could just kind of talk about what that feels like and what's actually possible if you really take in everything that you're about to teach us.

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And we're going to unpack this because I think today's conversation is an invitation to really look at where in your life you are putting other people ahead of you, where in your life you are staying silent, where in your life you are... wanting to be liked or just wanting everybody to be happy or wanting to keep the peace.

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And it's actually creating this turmoil inside of you because you silently know that you're giving up on yourself or what you care about or what you value. And there's one other thing that you write about in the introduction where you say, all this changed when my mentor told me something I'll never forget. He said, Kwame, there is a difference between being liked and being respected.

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If you want to have personal and professional success, you have to be willing to engage with conflict. And I'm presuming that's because your ability to say things that are difficult or to ask for what you need is how you gain respect.

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Kwame says the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations because it's more important to be respected than liked. Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here. It is always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So a little while ago, I saw this video and in it, there was this licensed sex therapist and she was talking to her husband and she shared this thing that has had the single biggest impact on my sex life with my husband, Chris. So you want to know what I did?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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I think you just solved all my problems with my husband because I think my problem is I think about it and I'll text him and be like, we got to have sex tonight. Like, I really miss you. But there's no follow through on my part. And I think we're both responsive. That he probably needs to have me start. I need him to start. We're both exhausted. Like, is that a common thing?

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You know, I told my husband, Chris, that you were coming on. And I said, would you like to ask Vanessa a couple questions? And I understand that he has videotaped a couple questions and texted them to you. I do not know what they are. I'm a little nervous because I feel like I'm about to get blamed for something. But in the interest of both of us getting the advice right,

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right on its head. No pun intended. Just imagine a world where you're having more sex. You feel more connected and safe. You're also having more fun in the bedroom. Well, that's exactly what you're going to learn how to create in your life today. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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that we need, I would love to hear my husband's questions and your answers.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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What comes up for you around that? Well, I have a feeling that he's going to say I'm all talk, no follow through.

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Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Because I do want to be having more sex because I do enjoy it, but I'm just tired. Like I'll always be like, we got to have sex tonight. And he's like, yeah, we got to have sex tonight. And then he's asleep at 8.30. And when I crawl into bed at 9.30, you know, he's like... Okay, I'm not waking him up like this is I'm just going to go to bed and then we'll have sex in the morning.

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And then he's up at 515 and I'm still sleeping. And so it just feels like I keep saying something, but I'm not doing what I said I wanted. And then the second thing is, I think it's what you talked about, which is even in a relationship where we've been married for 28 years.

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And even with a person that I love more than anybody, who I trust more than anybody, I still feel squeamish and uncomfortable talking about either what I want or what he might want that I'm not delivering and kind of hearing that I'm falling short or that he's bored. And so I think we've been hinting around wanting things to change, but we actually haven't made them change.

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I don't know if that's good or bad. All I know is that my husband sent you videos asking some questions. And I have no clue what the questions are.

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You're making me nervous.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, hey, Mel. Thanks for inviting me onto the podcast. My first question is around the difference between physical touch or sensation versus emotional connection. And either what's more important to you or does one come before the other? And what could I do to improve the physical side or to dial up anything that you might need emotionally so that the table is set?

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Oh, well, first of all, the dog is in the background, which is adorable. But I love that he cares. And I guess what I'm getting from this question is that simply talking about sex with your partner. And asking questions about sex makes you feel cared for. Absolutely. Yeah.

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You know, I see I'm already getting there. I'm so embarrassed. I don't know why. It's a vulnerable thing that you're doing. Well, what I would say to my husband is that once we are physical, it's fantastic. But for me, there is some disconnect around when we're having sex or when we think are the times to have sex because I think we're waiting until the end of the day.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That's exactly what I want to say. And we're both exhausted. And so... One thing I'm relieved about since he's kind enough to be saying there's emotional intimacy and physical intimacy. And to me, the physical intimacy is on lock. I mean, I'd love to experiment a little bit just to spice things up because I think he would enjoy it.

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But I think we're struggling with just the basics of how do we have more sexual experiences in the middle of a crazy busy life? Yeah. And how do we stop... by disappointing one another by saying we would love to do this. Like just last week, we probably talked about wanting to have sex two or three times. He has a fricking sinus infection. I don't want to get sick. Like he can barely breathe.

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I cannot wait for our conversation today, and it's always such an honor to spend time and to be together with you. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm so glad you're here. And because you made the time to hit play and listen to this particular episode, here's what I know.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So if he's asking me what, I don't even know, because I feel like when we do connect, and I think a lot of us feel this way, when it finally happens, you're happy. So what would your advice, though, as a licensed sex therapist be? And what do you hear in that question when somebody's saying, Do you need more emotional intimacy or physical intimacy?

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What I'm hearing from you which is interesting because I feel myself also having a little bit of a visceral like, oh God, is this idea of you got to plan it.

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You're like, yeah, no kidding, Mel. You have to plan it. Like, because I think I believe in the myth that it's just supposed to happen, which is clearly not working. And that's what happens in the beginning of a relationship. When you first, it's brand new, you will literally going to the grocery store is the hottest date on the planet.

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And then you're having sex in the backseat of the car, in the parking lot. Like those days are over. So you're saying- I want to challenge you on that though.

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Because you're planning dates.

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I've never heard that before.

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Vanessa I need to take a quick break so we can hear a word from our sponsors but we've got so much more to jump into and while you're listening to a word from our sponsors share this because everybody that you care about deserves to have a better sex life and there's no doubt that everything that we're learning from Vanessa is going to help us do that and don't go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you after a very short break stay with us

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I am so thrilled that you're here today. You and I are getting to spend time together and learn from licensed sex therapist, Vanessa Marin. And we've been digging into the things that you need to know in order to have a more pleasurable and fun and empowering sex life.

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I first of all know you value your time because you made time and found time to listen to this. And let me tell you something. This episode is going to deliver the goods because today we're talking about sex. And your pleasure, connection, intimacy, fun, it matters. You deserve to have this part of your life feel satisfying and fun, whether you're single or whether you're in a relationship.

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So Vanessa, one other question before I get to Chris's second question is, if you have a partner who tells you, I need more emotional intimacy, what does that mean?

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You know, I think you just changed my marriage because when you said, when you were first dating, what is a date? It's a way to schedule sex.

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And it's not even about the dates. It's about creating moments where we have the time and space for intimacy to happen and to plan for it. Like you said earlier in the evening, I'm like, I need to be doing it before noon. Like, I mean, if it's going to happen, scheduling it late morning is probably the sweet spot.

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What do we say instead?

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Well, more importantly, this is how it all started. And this is why you were having sex. So why on earth would I be a dummy and not do the same thing I did when we first started dating? All right, let's look at the next one.

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So my second question is about just what I can do better or differently at the end of the day to help you turn off your working mind. I know sometimes it's dinner or hanging out and watching something, but your mind often doesn't turn off all the way into the bedroom and into the bed with or without the phone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so is there anything that I can do to help alleviate some of that stress or whatever might be running through your mind in order to shift the mood?

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And did you know... that sex is one of the top three reasons why people get divorced or break up, but that's not going to happen to you because improving your sex life, totally solvable problem. So if you're not having sex right now, or if you're not having enough, or if it's not pleasurable, or if you'd like to mix things up, but you just don't have a clue how to talk about it or bring it up,

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I love this question because I know exactly what could be done and it's going to sound weird. But one of the things that I really miss is that we don't, often cook dinner together anymore because we're empty nesters and there's only two of us and we both work from home. And so it is so easy to sit at your desk on your laptop and

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close the laptop at 6.30 after the last video call, and then send a few emails and then stroll into the kitchen. And you're like, what do we have, cereal again? We're going to put a pizza in the oven again. And so there is some buffering.

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between work and the reestablishing of rituals that for us were very much driven by the fact that kids were home and they were hungry and we had a pattern of sitting down and cooking and then eating as a family that has just evaporated without the kids being there. And so for me, I know that I could use a lot of help with

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If I walked into the kitchen and Chris was already cooking, I wouldn't be on my phone. But since we haven't planned anything, work literally takes over the space and we're both guilty of it. And so I could see how even... And I mean, this is just opening up so many things we could do. We could start doing the things we used to do when the kids were home.

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We could meet on Sunday nights and go, these are the nights we're going to cook and who's going to take... responsibility for being the lead on that night so that we both come down to something. I think it's an excellent question because it goes back to what you're talking about, which is intentional intimacy and even the act of deciding that we're cooking dinner tonight together.

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That's intentional. Yeah.

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Well, it's like everything I talk about on this podcast, which is we all know this. Yeah. But you have to be reminded because otherwise technology and work and all these things that you're not going to be thinking about at the end of your life are going to steal the time that you have now with the people that you care about.

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All right. Let's take the final question from Mr. Christopher Robbins. The fact that he's even asking makes me like want to have sex with him. Okay, honey, here we go. Here goes the final question.

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Is there anything that you haven't said or that you're afraid to tell me? Thanks for including me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, anything I haven't told him. Yes, but I have told him this, but maybe you can give us advice and I can ask this on behalf of the person who's listening who feels the same way. Okay. I feel like... Work is a huge part of my life, and I have to be out in the world, at work, go, go, go, go, go, go. I am the primary breadwinner. I am aggressive and confident and...

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First of all, you're not the only one. And what I love about her expert today is that she's even going to tell you this was hard for her to talk about in her life. And she's been in clinical practice as a licensed sex therapist for over 20 years, and she's been married for 17. See, here's the thing. None of us have been taught about sex.

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energetic and I am responsible for a large number of people on this team. And I put a ton of energy into caring for the people that I work with, caring for the people that listen to the show, caring for our children that I don't want to be the point person on our sex life.

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Like I really want to feel desired and to feel like this is one area of my life where I don't have to be the one who's in charge. And I am sure that is a very common thing that people say that I, and not like in a fairytale way that I'm expecting to be romanced, but I don't want to be the one with the traditional masculine energy that is seeking out the thing that I want.

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Not to say I'm not a equal partner, but that I don't want it to be on me to have to initiate this too.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And more importantly, everything that you and I have seen in the movies or what we think it's supposed to be, wrong. That's why you and I hint. It's why we fake. It's why we're tolerating less than we deserve. And the solution, this is the good news, it's right in front of your face. And wouldn't it be so awesome if it weren't such a chore or embarrassing to talk about?

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Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you.

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I tracked her down and I invited her on the podcast and she hopped on a plane. She is here in our Boston studios today. And I'm just going to say right up front, If you're single or if you're in a new relationship, this is a must listen.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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I mean, personally, I've been married for 28 years and even I'm embarrassed to talk about it with my husband, Chris. Just imagine a world where you could be having more of it and enjoy it more. Well, that's my mission and what's available to you today. So if you're single, just pat yourself on the back because you're about to learn something I wish I knew 35 years ago.

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If you're in a new relationship, I know you're probably having more sex than my husband and I are, but what you're going to learn is going to make it even better. Because licensed sex therapist, New York Times bestselling author, Vanessa Marin is here. And look, I'm going to ask the embarrassing questions. I'm even going to open up my bedroom and my marriage.

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Because you said the bedroom, and I immediately imagined the kitchen with Chris. But walk me through how you and your husband started this ritual and step-by-step what you do.

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Even Chris, my husband has jumped in with some questions for Vanessa. I have no idea what they are. I'm going to hear them live when you hear them. So let me tell you a little bit about Vanessa. Vanessa is a licensed psychotherapist and a sex therapist with over 20 years of clinical practice helping people have healthier, more satisfying sex lives.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What is the bristle response?

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If you're listening to this and you realize you bristle and it might be innocuous because you literally are just like, it's true. Like I have determined in my mind that every time somebody touches me, they want more. And for whatever reason, I don't want more or I don't have time to or I'm mad at you. So I don't want to have sex with you.

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That makes so much sense. And I can see in periods of my life where I have bristled with Chris. Yeah. And it sends a very chilling message to the person that you care about. Yeah. You know, and I also love that if you're uncomfortable talking about this, share this episode with your partner and say, I want you to pay close attention to the bristle part because I've been guilty of doing that. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Let's talk about it. And then that way you can do it in an email or a text. Yep. You let Vanessa, the licensed sex therapist and Mel Robbins do the talking and you've now set the table. So Vanessa, what's your number one piece of advice that you should follow on your next date night?

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She's known for her work in making sex therapy more accessible. She is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Sex Talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. And she and her husband Xander also host the number one rated sexuality podcast called Pillow Talks. You're going to love her. So let's jump in because I got questions and I know you do too.

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Wait, what? Have sex before the date?

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You're a genius. I am going to rock my husband's world. He's not even going to see what's coming for crying out loud because I've done this all wrong.

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Wow. Okay. Can you give me exactly what to say if your partner's initiating intimacy and you're not in the mood?

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I'll tell you what, my legs are open now. Well, what I love about that is I just realized just even in the, we should have sex tonight. Like I'm focusing on the orgasm. Are you open to being intimate later today?

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I think you've changed my life with two things. By sharing that there are two sex drives, spontaneous and responsive, and I'm stealing your husband's line, and I hope as you're listening and spending time together with us as you're taking your walk or you're sitting at work or you're driving in your car, that...

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You're realizing that that framing of are you open to doing something fun and intimate Saturday morning? And I love the third thing that you said that I'm just like, wow, you're right. We had sex all the time when we first met because we were constantly planning dates together. Yeah. So we were planning sex. Duh.

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And now, of course, I'm like thinking it's some sort of like stupid thing to do when actually that's how it all began. Exactly. Wow. Is there a question that if you're in a new relationship that you can ask that really opens up more dialogue around it if you're really enjoying this person and you want to take more responsibility and you want to be more open about this topic.

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Vanessa Marin, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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You did? What did he say?

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Oh, I think Chris would feel like deeply connected and seen and tired because he had just mind-blowing orgasm.

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Now, is it normal for people who interview you to feel kind of nervous? Yes. Are you a little bit nervous right now? I'm definitely nervous. And I suppose it's because I'm one of these people that's a little bit squeamish about sex, which might surprise you as you're listening to me right now. You know, you've hit play on this. You know what you're in for. This is an adult conversation.

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I'm so glad you shared that with me because I never in a million years would have thought that that was his answer, but it gives me a clue as to what I could do differently. What would your words be? What would my words be?

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I think, well, definitely deeply connected and just kind of like, you know, it's afterwards you're like two octopuses with your arms and legs all wrapped around each other, just laying there. Happy, safe, tired.

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Blissed out. That's a phenomenal, phenomenal one. Yeah. No, and I like playful, but I can take the nod on that and show up a little differently. That's cool.

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Well, I think it's a really common experience. I mean, like if you're a nurse working in a hospital. Oh, yeah. If you're a teacher, if you're working the night shift, if you're caring for aging parents, it's not even that you have to be doing this kind of perceived big thing. It's that you're doing big things all day long. Yeah.

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And what I love about the word playful is that I do believe that there's probably history and legacy that comes from the lie we've all been told about the steamy, hot, spontaneous, crazy, mind-blowing sex. And the idea of just making it playful and fun, like that just creates a whole new future and opportunity to connect. What are some little things that make a big difference in your sex life?

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And I'm out there and I share a lot. But when it comes to sex, I'm, I don't know, like maybe a little bit of a prude.

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Gratitude, eye contact, and then you set a six second kiss or a 30 second hug and you release the oxytocin in your body that is that sort of bonding chemical. Yeah. Oh, I love that.

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You've been working as a licensed sex therapist for over 20 years. You're married. Vanessa, what are three things you would never do?

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Beautiful. So you have this brand new deck of cards, the sex talk, with all these different kinds of questions that couples can ask each other. Why did you create this?

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Here are some of the questions. Would you rather have a two-minute quickie with an orgasm or 30 minutes of pleasure with no orgasm? Now, when I first read it, I'm like, well, a quickie and why would I want pleasure with no orgasm?

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But if you ask it in a non-confrontational way, you might actually find, and I'd probably find with my husband, I'm realizing, he would prefer 30 minutes of pleasure and play with no orgasm rather than a two-minute transactional orgasm. ejaculation.

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Is there a time frame that as a licensed sex therapist, you tend to hear more than another?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Wow. And the reason why I ask is because if time and being tired is my perceived biggest obstacle to having more sex with the man that I love, then I would think the opinion that it should be longer than something quick also keeps you from initiating. It's just like why you don't call a friend. You're like, well, I don't have time right now to catch up.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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And so maybe even just focusing on how long it is probably is part of the problem in terms of us even initiating. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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That's true. Both the sex and talk about it, right? Choose to do it anyway. I think we're going to talk a lot about that. Could you speak directly to the person that's listening?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Well, how do you create more pleasure if you're not enjoying what you're doing?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Because one of the things that you're about to learn is that your entire history, I'm talking every person you've ever been with, and especially your history when you're single, It sets you up for your sex life forever. And so she's here to address everything that you and I are not talking about and that you've never learned.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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It seems like it because it's on the inside, not the outside. You know what I mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Can I just look at it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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whether they're in their car or they're sitting at work or they've taken you and I, Vanessa, on a walk, and just tell them what might they experience that's different in life if they take everything that you're about to share and I'm about to confess to heart and they apply it. What's going to change in their life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Like...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Well, it seems to be that you're working as you should because why would you desire something you don't enjoy? So what would you say to the person who's listening who doesn't feel comfortable? Or I think it's even deeper that you, based on your past experiences, especially the negative ones, you don't know how to give yourself permission that you deserve pleasure. Right.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Make it more playful, clearly.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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You know, in your private practice, how often does like a past traumatic sexual experience or some adverse childhood event or having a partner that cheated on you, how often is that the thing that's in the way between a couple?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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And if you're listening and that's you, how would you advise somebody to bring it up with your current partner when you start to realize, oh, the reason why I freeze and I can't find freedom and pleasure is because of a past issue. It has nothing to do with you. How do you raise that with your partner?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I had that issue. Like where up in my head, I knew it was something from the past and that I'm safe with Chris, but my body had different programming. And so it wasn't until I recognized it and spoke about it that I could actually do the work to heal and then take control of the pleasure and how I wanted to experience this act of intimacy with somebody who I feel deeply safe with.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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I've had a lot of male friends ask me recently, whether it's somebody that they're dating that's new or something that's come up in a long-term relationship about, I don't know what to do because I am with somebody that has this in their history. How can I show up in a way that creates safety.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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What advice do you have for somebody where you're the one who is in a relationship with somebody who is working through an issue like this?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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I would love to have you just speak directly to the person who's listening. And they have just spent all this time learning from you and laughing at me and feeling sorry for my husband. But if there's one thing that they could take away from this conversation and if you could wave a magic wand and tell them, here's the one thing I want you to do today, what would it be?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Well, I'm thrilled to have had the opportunity to be here with you. And as much as I make jokes about this as a way to deflect, I'm also feeling very grateful that Chris was willing to... ask you questions that I could hear, that I could learn from.

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And I really do think everything that we've learned today is going to help the person listening, me, my husband, the person that's in your life, to enjoy this really important aspect of being an adult. So what are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I'm really excited. I actually can't wait to get home and have some fun playing around with Christopher Robbins. And I'm really excited for you as you're listening and how you're going to use everything that Vanessa shared with you today based on the research, based on her 20 years of clinical practice, based on her bestselling book.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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to take control of this area of your life because you deserve intimacy, you deserve pleasure, you deserve play, you deserve a blissful, amazing orgasm, and now we know we're having sex before the date. Yes. Vanessa, thank you, thank you, thank you for all you do. Thank you for hopping on a plane and being here with us in our Boston studios.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Oh my gosh. I learned so much. I'm so excited that you were here. I'm so excited about what I learned and I'm so excited for you. There is zero doubt in my mind that everything that you just learned will absolutely help you create a better life, feel more pleasure, feel more comfortable. You can share this episode as a way to break the ice, trap them in the car with you and just hit play.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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And now you're listening to and talking about sex. And none of us are talking about this thing enough. And so I'm glad you and I were here together today to not only learn, but to be talking about this super important topic as well. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now that you got the roadmap for how to do that in the bedroom, go do it. I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode, the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. And it is so... Oh, hold on a second. Let me start from the top because it's way too jumbly.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So for the person that's listening that's single, I would also love to have you speak directly to that person because I know that this is also going to be one of those episodes since none of us like talking about sex, that you send it to somebody.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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I think my favorite question so far is, do you like being surprised during sex or do you prefer to know what's coming? I prefer to know what's coming and it's me. And you. And you. Let's be very clear. And you, Chris. Which is going to flip most things that you know about desire, pleasure, sex drive, orgasm, right on its head. No pun intended.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Like if you're single and listening to our conversation today, how might your life change if they take to heart everything that you're about to share and they apply it to their life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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What keeps you up at night as a licensed sex therapist?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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And so why are so many of us feeling disconnected in our sex lives?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Today on the Mel Robbins podcast, you and I are gonna spend some time together in the bedroom. If you got little kids, please put on headphones or just listen to a different episode of the podcast while you're taking them to school. But once you drop them off, come right on back to this one. Can you tell I'm excited for both of us? I am so excited because if you can't talk about sex,

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Well, I can relate to that. I mean, I think that when you have a person that you're in a relationship, and of course, I've been married for 28 years, having the same person be the person that you wake up next to, you grocery shop with, you cook dinner with, you pay bills with, if you have kids or you have furry kids that you're taking care of, the logistics around that, that

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it can become very transactional. Like you're doing life together, but you're not actually doing each other. I mean, I love Chris like crazy. I'm super attracted to him. And as much as I want more sex, I'm like, do I? Like, I'm actually very, very tired. And so... I relate to what you're saying. And what is your advice to me?

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If I want more sex, but I'm not sure that I want more sex, even though I enjoy the sex tremendously when we have it, but I'm exhausted.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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If you can't ask for what you want, if you don't know how to bring it up, if you're going through a dry spell, or if you're like me and my husband and you want to have more sex, but you're just so tired, holy cow, our conversation is going to be surprising, pleasure-inducing, filled with practical advice, which is going to flip most of the things that you and I know about desire, pleasure, sex drive, and orgasm.

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You know, I actually believe you. Good. Because, no, and I don't mean that in a, like, as a weird statement. It's because I know what you're saying is true. And, you know, one of the things that happens for me a lot is that every time my husband and I have sex, I always say, that was amazing. I feel so much more connected to you. Thank God we did that. Why aren't we having more sex?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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Like, is that a common thing too, where you're just like, I'm too tired, so we're not having sex, but then we have sex and I'm like, why are we not having sex?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Your Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy, & Love From a World-Leading Sex Therapist

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I am mentally ready to have sex all the time. It's when we cross the bridge to actually doing it that the drawbridge is up.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. The expert you're about to meet traveled 3,000 miles to be here today for you and me and to have this conversation. And I could not be more excited for what's about to happen. Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is a world-renowned doctor with over 20 years of clinical experience.

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And so what does that mean? Like if you were explaining that to an eight year old, what does that mean?

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Whether you're trying to cut back on sugar or get a better night's sleep or be more consistent with exercise or just have more energy and feel less stress, Dr. Chatterjee is here with the little tricks you can use to make change easier. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're listening to this episode.

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Why are we hungry all the time? If we're eating mac and cheese and fish and chips or chicken nuggets or we're just kind of doing dinner out of a box or we're ordering it to go, why does that make us hungry?

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What do you mean by that?

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Yes, I'm like cruising through the kitchen at work.

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Well, you know what's interesting about everything that you're saying is you say sugary cereal, and I think the mistake that I used to make for years is I would think about the actual Captain Crunch or the stuff that is marketed typically to kids, that even in the marketing, you know it is sugary. But

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When I started to do, as you're saying, like flip it over and there's 32 grams of sugar in a bowl of cereal and you're like, what? And so it's kind of hidden in there. And I think that's also part of the thing that I didn't realize and a lot of us don't realize. And I love that you're not blaming us because we fall for the marketing and then we don't look at the actual ingredient list.

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I mean, first of all, it's always an honor to be able to spend time with you and be together. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so glad that you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know.

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Oh my, not only does it make sense, You've actually handed the power back to us and you have also activated this internal drive to want to feel better. And I would love for you to share your framework around cravings because you have this 3F framework when it comes to cravings.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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Yes.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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That's where I just screw it all up, Dr. Chatterjee. I can be so good all day. And then I'm like, why didn't I go to bed earlier? If I had just gone to bed at 8.30 and started reading, I wouldn't have eaten half a bag of this salty, buttery popcorn.

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I know you're the type of person who truly values your health and you value the health and happiness of the people that you care about. And if you're listening because somebody shared this with you, How awesome is that? I mean, that means that you have people around you who care about you. And so that's so cool. They want you to feel more energized, happy, and healthy in your life.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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Okay, feel, feed, and find.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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You know we're standing in front of the fridge with the thing.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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How do you know the difference though? Because I'm a good talker. So I can be like, I think I'm actually hungry. I think I need a little.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that means you're in the right place. So good job. Hit and play on this episode because today you have an appointment with Europe's number one doctor, Dr. Rangan Chatterjee. Dr. Chatterjee is a British physician. He's a best-selling author, a medical expert for the BBC, and host of Europe's number one health and wellness podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If you have not had any time to yourself all day and sugar's your little treat to yourself... Yes, I think that's a big one for a lot of us, especially if you're constantly stressed, you're caring for other people.

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Because I'm probably going to put it down anyway and go get the popcorn and ice cream.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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I literally, since I've been in your house and I've met your wife and your kids, I can see you standing in your kitchen and imagine your wife coming in and being, what are you doing?

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And he's also the author of the brand new best-selling book, Make Change That Lasts. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see that I have tabbed this book because it is full of gems we are going to be unpacking today. He is taking 20 years of clinical experience... and distilling it into the four steps you need to take to feel better, to live better, and to take back control of your health.

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Right. Or the people that are telling you to do it online. Yeah.

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stop, that is something that everybody needs to hear. Yeah. You don't think the diet was the failure. You think you're the failure.

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I'm having this huge epiphany, Dr. Chatterjee, that I can't tell you how many times I've started keto or I've tried to manage more protein or I tried pescatarian, I've just been chasing one fad and one diet and one thing that I hear on the outside. And it's not to say that those changes don't work, but I'm realizing for the very first time listening to you right now,

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that the key ingredient in all of those situations where I tried something and I felt like it failed for me or I couldn't stick to it, I don't have the willpower, this is too complicated, is that I didn't have the most important ingredient that you're talking about right now, which is part of the first pillar of food, which is feel. I wasn't saying to myself, how is this making me feel?

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And I can tell you that I recently did this kind of like five-day protocol that I was just looking for some sort of reset to do. And it was this five-day intermittent, you know, you're eating while you're doing it, fasting protocol. They send you a kit. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever done.

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But the interesting thing that was different is that I was very much paying attention to how would I feel every day as I was doing it. And as I started to notice that my mood got better, I wasn't as hungry. I felt sharper in focus.

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It has made a change stick because of what you're talking about, which is when you start focusing on this first pillar of your health, really trying this as an experiment and then going, how does this feel for me? That's the piece that actually will make it work.

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So please help me welcome the amazing Dr. Chatterjee to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited for this conversation. Dr. Chatterjee, I cannot thank you enough for traveling 3,000 miles to sit down and be here with me and the person that is with us right now.

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Yes.

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Totally. And what I love about this, and I'll just add this from my own experiences, I've always felt this pull to want to be vegetarian or plant-based. And when I have tried it, I have felt so low energy. And it has been a chore to get in the protein that I'm realizing as you're talking, that's why I've never done it.

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It's because I realized that I actually feel better on a different type of eating program and getting more lean protein from sources other than plant-based foods. And I have a question though, before we move on to the second pillar of movement, how long... do I need to try something in the food pillar or a change in my diet and really paying attention to how am I feeling?

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Because I would imagine you change anything, whether it's your reading labels, one ingredient, less sugar, that you will go through a withdrawal period. It will feel worse before it feels better. So what's your recommendation in the food pillar for how long you would recommend us trying this thing, going, how do I feel?

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You're not actually, you're simplifying it. You're doing exactly what you said. And it is very clear to me, food is medicine. Food is part of your plan and a required part of the pillar for you to feel less stress, to have more energy, to be happier, to be healthier. And you're the expert.

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Well, you know what I love about you as a doctor, as a bestselling author? You have this obsession with making things that feel overwhelming as simple as it can be.

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And so take the things that you feel called to try that you know are true or you trust and do it for three weeks and see how you feel.

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Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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What's the right question?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

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I cannot wait to jump into how you're going to simplify movement as the second pillar for our health. But this feels like a good point to hit the pause button so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And as you take a listen to our sponsors, make sure to share this with somebody in your life that you care about, because there's no doubt in my mind that this information that we're talking about today, we all need to hear it. So thanks for sharing it. Don't go anywhere because Dr. Chatterjee and I, we are going to be waiting for you after this short break. So stay with us. Welcome back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I have the honor of getting to sit down and spend time with and be together with the amazing Dr. Chatterjee. His new book is Make Change That Lasts, and we are talking about the simple things you need to focus on in order to be healthier and happier.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He is the author of six bestselling books about health and happiness. And here's what I love about Dr. Chatterjee. He just has this ability to simplify what I think is a very overwhelming topic, and that is, how do you take better care of your health? And he's also going to empower you to realize that you know what feels good for you, and that's important for you to be paying attention to.

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So Dr. Chatterjee, one of the things that I've seen is that you have a five-minute strength training program that you do every day, and I hugged you when you came in, and I'll tell you, you're pretty jacked compared to when I saw you last time. So what is this five-minute strength training thing that you do, Dr. Chatterjee?

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And I'm so excited for you to really share this gift that you have of taking the overwhelming topic of living a healthier and a happier life and truly simplifying it for me and for the person that is listening and that's going to share this with somebody.

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Wait, so you literally do squats? you do push-ups, you do calf raises, so you're going up on your tippy toes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, you know what's interesting about brushing your teeth, and I'm glad you just brought it up, is I just saw somebody else talking about it. I can't remember who it is. And it's a fabulous example that if you go and don't brush your teeth today, you'll have bad breath, you'll notice, but most people around you won't notice.

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But if you go day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year for five years, and you never brush your teeth, some of them are going to fall out. You're going to have like snaggletooth mouth. Like you're going to be horrible. And it's an illustration of something we know intellectually that the compounding nature of doing something every day is,

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actually builds in the negative or the positive dramatically. And your five-minute workout in the kitchen is just genius. First of all, you already taught us that the brain is an associative machine, meaning it associates certain places and times of day with certain things. And so you're using that to your advantage.

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You also have set yourself up for success because you now have a kettle ball right there in the kitchen. You have also set yourself up with a stacking of this so that you start the coffee maker, which is something you're going to do regardless of how you feel. It doesn't matter how tired you are, whether or not you don't want to, you're going to do it. And while the coffee's brewing...

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You don't care that you're not in the latest workout clothes. You don't need a fancy gym. There you are at 5.05 in the morning in your pajamas doing pushups on your kitchen floor while your coffee's brewing. And it's an illustration of the daily toothbrushing.

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I think the person listening is like, I know six people like that right now. So please send them this conversation because you haven't been able to get them to take this seriously. Dr. Chatterjee can.

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And what I love about what you're teaching us, and I'm sure I speak for you as you're listening to Dr. Chatterjee too right now, First of all, I'm like, okay, how can I get you to be my doctor? Because I would like a doctor that takes their coat off and then shows me how to do five-minute interventions. But it all comes back to this simple principle. There are four pillars.

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We've unpacked food and the importance of how you feel and experimenting and one ingredient stuff. Now you have simplified movement. And you have made the case that just introducing five minutes of movement, whether it's a walk or something in your kitchen, how that changes the course of your life and how you've seen it happen in your patients.

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Well, I can't wait to learn from you today. And I would love to start by having you talk directly to the person that's listening and explain what could they experience if they really take to heart everything you're about to pour into us, the research, your experience as a physician, everything that you've learned in researching and writing six books, what could change about your life?

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Well, you and I both know, of course you're going to feel different.

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And you just gave us the actual only way it gets done because most of us make a mistake in that moment where we hurt this video about health and we say, okay, I'm going to go to the gym three times a week for 45 minutes. And then you don't because it's hard to do that.

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And it's actually more complicated than you think to find the time to get the clothes, to get into the gym, to figure out what the workout is. And what you're saying is there's a totally different way to go from inspiration to action. Make it as easy as hell. Make it five minutes long.

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Find a trigger like making coffee that you don't even think about and set up the environment with one simple thing so that you have the things you need right there and try it for seven days and you'll be shocked.

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Well, I can't wait until you teach us how to make the third pillar, which is sleep, something that's easy using these principles because... as a medical doctor and literally being Europe's doctor, and the tens of thousands of patients that you've treated,

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It is really sad and troubling how many people are not getting enough sleep, how they're having trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, not dropping into deep sleep. And so can you share with us how you say a good night's sleep starts in the morning and what we need to do to make this easy?

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And we have so many people around the world that write in when they hear about light exposure in the morning that say, well, I have to leave for work before the sun's even up. So how do you do that if it's raining or you have a job where you're already starting work and the sun hasn't risen?

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Well, let's talk about that. How can someone create an evening routine that leads to better sleep if they're doing this stuff in the morning that's easy?

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No, we did not do that.

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We had a whole routine. Right.

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This is just like food. You basically said, if I don't want to eat it, I don't have it in the house. If you don't want to look at your phone in the bedroom, then you don't have it in the bedroom. You're just making it easy. I'm not a superhuman. Well, you're following your principles. You make it easy.

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You know, I'll tell you something. As I'm sitting here listening to you, And I'm nodding along and I'm thinking, I have to do this five-minute thing. I have to do this five-minute thing because I have completely fallen off the entire category of movement because I have been in the middle of this crazy book launch and all this travel.

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And I've been too tired and things have been so chaotic and I haven't been able to do my normal thing. And you're reminding me that there is still always five minutes left. there is still always something you can do. And you're also reminding me that this very important principle, I'm not failing. The routine that I do in my normal schedule is failing me right now.

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And that's a liberating way to look at this. I could listen to you all day. And I know we have a lot more to cover, but I want to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors. And while you're listening to our sponsors, share this episode with the people that you care about.

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And don't you dare go anywhere because Dr. Chatterjee has so many more things to share with you and tips and ways to make positive change stick. Stay with us. We'll be back after a short break. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are talking about simple changes that transform your health with the amazing Dr. Chatterjee.

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So Dr. Chatterjee, my next question is, why do you need the fourth pillar relaxed if we've already got the third pillar of sleep?

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So 80 to 90% of the health issues, the ailments, the symptoms that people are struggling with is related to stress.

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Well, we actually had Dr. Aditi Nararkar on the show, and she said in her research that stress is the single consistent cause of of illness as well. Like if you look at the clustering of things that cause it, it's always present. And it's the one thing that is in your control in terms of your ability to mitigate against it. So when you say relaxation, you're also talking about

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the importance of de-stressing and finding times to relax? What do you mean by that?

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Yes.

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Dr. Chatterjee, what is stress?

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So are you also saying, though, that if we're eating a ton of processed foods and a ton of sugar and we're not getting sleep and we're not moving our bodies, that the lack of those things also creates that physiological condition in our body? Yeah.

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Some of the recent studies I've seen is that up to 80% of people in the United States are in a medical state of chronic stress.

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Well, I'm excited because here's what I know. The person that is listening right now, whether they've taken you and me on a walk with them or we're sitting in the car with them or at their house or at work, or the person that received this conversation from a friend, they actually found the time because they care about their health.

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So what are some of your favorite simple things that you do or that you recommend to your patients that do help you reset from this, I'm in an attack mode state to, I can breathe.

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And I'm sure as you're listening, you probably feel the same way I do, which is I'm so, even though I sit down with world-renowned experts like you, I'm like, wait a minute, should I do keto? Am I supposed to fast? Am I exercising? Am I weight training? Am I sleeping? Am I meditating? Do I get my morning light in?

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What does that mean, especially given that people feel lonely already?

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I'll give you one that you've already explained us. I would say that the act of making your coffee and doing your movement on your own, for yourself, by yourself, is exactly that.

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Before we go any further, how do you feel after doing that? My shoulders dropped.

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I felt myself settle. I almost felt like there's a downshift.

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And it becomes so overwhelming that I think it's easy to start and then feel discouraged. And so maybe where we should start is, as a doctor, what are just the most common health struggles that you hear over and over from your patients and from your global audience?

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I believe you. I believe you. I love that your approach to health, Dr. Chatterjee, over the years has really evolved to a much more profound connection to living a meaningful life. And I know you. I've read your six books. I listen to your podcast. I follow your work. So I also know that your father's life had a very big impact on you.

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Could you just share a little bit about how your father's story has informed and influenced your approach and your mission and why this matters so much to you?

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One of the things that you write about, it's on page 28 on your new bestselling book, Make Change That Lasts, is you write about this period in your life and the person listening may be in a position in their life where they're in the caregiver role. whether that's because you work as a first responder or a nurse in a hospital or you're a teacher or you have aging parents.

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And you just shared with us that you moved home when your dad became ill and you helped your brother and your mom and you write about your reflections about caregiving. And I want to read What you wrote and then have you speak to it a little bit. This is on page 28 and 29. You say, you know, when I look back now to the time I used to care for dad, I don't regret a thing.

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However, on reflection, my belief that his well-being was entirely my responsibility wasn't helpful. The truth was he had a loving family and a brilliant team of medical professionals all available to him. But for whatever reason, I generated a myth for myself to live by that said I could only be happy if I personally met his every need. That myth trapped me.

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It was the cause of a great deal of pain in my body and mind as well as to my wife, who had to deal with my regular absences and my significantly increased loads of stress. If I'd been able to hear my body's signals, I would have realized much earlier that something was wrong.

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If I knew then what I know now, I would have meditated on the issue, realized that this damaging myth that I was responsible for him and meeting his every need, that was holding me down. And I would have empowered myself to make changes. I would love to have you speak to that realization and what you want the person listening to know who is in a role where you're the caregiver and

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and the stress is overwhelming, and you do feel the responsibility, because a lot of people say the words, well, if I'm not here, nobody else is. So what would you say, Dr. Chatterjee, based on your life experience caring for your father and that myth?

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See, he's one of these doctors that's not just a medical expert. He's with you and he's with the people you love and he cares about how you feel. And today he is here to teach you that there are just four things, only four, not 40, four things you need to focus on when it comes to your health.

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How are you different?

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I think a lot of caregivers do.

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That it's all on me. This is my identity. If they're not doing well, it's my fault. If I'm not here, no one's here.

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Well, what I love about the fact that you as a doctor and as a son shared that you made it your identity, you drove yourself into the ground that didn't help your father, it didn't help you, it didn't help your mother, and that we've talked a lot about small changes. Yeah.

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that somebody could make is if you're able to see that this doesn't have to be your identity, it's just one of the things that you are taking care of because you really are the kind of person that values taking care of somebody else. It's part of your values, but it doesn't define you. That maybe that allows you

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Right. I call that a Z-pack, right? I'm like, I need antibiotics, doc.

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to claim another five to 10% of your time back and say, it's okay if they have a bad day. It's okay if they're struggling right now. It's okay if they're alone for 20 minutes.

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So for the person listening and all of the people that they're about to share this with who are just... the relentless demands of being a caregiver, what is the one thing that they could shift right now to reclaim a little space for themselves without feeling like you're giving up on someone else?

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I love it. Dr. Chatterjee, what do you think the most powerful lesson is that you've learned after being in medical practice for over 23 years and working with patients and writing bestselling books and having one of the top health podcasts in the world? What is one of the most powerful lessons you've learned about how anybody can create lasting change?

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You're not. You're not.

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Dr. Chatterjee, what are your parting words?

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Dr. Chatterjee, I am in awe of your ability to make what is so overwhelming, so simple, so profound, so urgent, and I think most importantly, available. and hopeful to me and to the person listening, because that very last piece that you said, I have come to believe the same thing, that it's not a matter of somebody not having the will. It's that they have a belief that it's not going to matter.

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And if you know the simple things you can do, but you do not believe it's going to matter, you will never do them. But what you successfully did today and what you do in all of your work is that you show up for us and explain the complicated in a way that makes it not just simple and easy, but you make me and the person listening believe that it's worth trying. And that's a gift.

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Thank you for sharing your gifts and your passion and your wisdom with me and with the person listening today.

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Oh my God, I just love you. I love you, I love you, I love you. And I wanna tell you, whomever you share this with, because I'm sure you had a bunch of people in your life that you were thinking about as Dr. Chatterjee was pouring into us today, There is no doubt that this time that your loved ones are going to get to spend with Dr. Chatterjee, life-altering, absolutely life-altering.

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So if you're concerned, if you care about, if you just love people in your life, please send this to them because it's hard to get through to the people that we care about. But I have a feeling that Dr. Chatterjee... He's going to be able to work his magic.

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to change your life. And so does Dr. Chatterjee. So take everything you just learned today and actually do it because your life will change if you do. You're going to feel better. You're going to see the results. You're going to experience hope.

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And I so want that for you. You deserve that. All righty. I'll talk to you in a few days. I'll be waiting in the very next episode to welcome you in the second you hit play. I'll see you there. I am so excited to talk to you.

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Well, we're friends and we admire each other's work. And that's a... That's a good starting point. Yes. That's a very good starting point for a conversation.

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Oh, you can do that. Kevin can handle anything. All right. Great. Awesome. Okay. Ad breaks. Here we go. Yes. Okay. Great. And if you're a brand new listener and if you're new... Oh, because... And to be together... Anything else? Okay. Boom, people, that's how it's done. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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So let me just make sure the person got exactly what you said. So you're saying that the landscape of health and medicine has changed dramatically in the last 20 years and that you used to, 20 years ago, have a situation where people would come in with an acute illness or problem or health challenge, you address it, we're good, we're back on track.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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What you're seeing now is the impact of how we are living and the stress that we are feeling and the foods that we're consuming. And that as a medical doctor and in the current health system, we're not actually addressing the root cause or potentially addressing four more simple things that are within our control that would have a positive impact on you and your life no matter what you're facing.

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So like if the person listening has a cancer diagnosis, if the person listening is dealing with a metabolic disorder or early onset of diabetes, These four pillars that you're talking about are still things that as a medical doctor, you're like, let's just start here in addition to everything else.

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He's also going to teach you his five-minute exercise routine, just five minutes, that he prescribes to his patients. And check this out. He does it in his kitchen every morning, and so can you. And it has life-changing impacts on your health. He's also going to share the three Fs that will help you manage cravings and so much more. And he's going to teach you how to use what you've got.

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And no matter what it is that you're dealing with right now, you're going to ask us, let's just talk about food, movement, sleep, and relaxation.

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Hold on. I got to make sure that we highlight that. So your lifestyle and some of the changes you can make starting today can be part of the treatment for any health issue. And it's part of the roadmap for you feeling better, lowering your stress and being healthier.

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100%.

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What? Using food, movement, sleep, and rest?

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I love that because I can remember this food, movement, sleep, and rest. And it's almost like a simple checklist. So let's go through each one of the four pillars. What do you mean by food? How do we turn it into health? How do we turn it into medicine? How do we use it?

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to help us be healthier, even as you're saying, like actually reverse some of the symptoms or health things that we're challenged with.

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I don't want to hear that. I want you to make this very simple, Dr. Josh.

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everything he's going to share with you. He has seen work and has had success with thousands of patients who have tried these very simple changes in these four key ways. And so here's the deal.

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I feel it. I especially feel it around what exactly to eat. You know what I mean? As a woman versus a man, now that I'm in my 50s versus my 30s, I need a certain amount of protein. What kind of protein? Should I be fasting? Should I not be fasting? Should I have electrolytes? You see what I'm saying?

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad you hit play on this episode because I just finished one of the most eye-opening conversations I have ever had on this podcast. What was the topic? Burning fat and losing weight.

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Okay, I wanna offer up a visual for the person listening. And I wanna see if this could be helpful. So as you were talking about the fact that we all have, that food is fuel, that we have a tank for fuel inside of us.

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And when we overeat or we just have too many calories or we're too sedentary and we're not intaking enough calories for the fuel that we need, but we're taking in more, it's like your body finds all these extra fuel tanks inside your body. And that's basically the purpose of fat cells, storing extra energy and fuel. So I all of a sudden got this visual of a pickup truck.

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and the pickup truck is barreling down the highway, and it's not just got a full tank of gas, but in the back bed of the pickup truck, there are all kinds of fuel cans just piled high. And if I'm listening to the good news, and I'm listening to your excitement about the fact that your metabolism

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based on research, your ability to burn the calories and burn the fuel effectively, that it's basically the same for your life, no matter how many fuel tanks you got in the back of the pickup truck. And that if you were to start to follow the advice

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Well, I've eaten up our guest and everything he's going to share with you. It is so exciting what we're about to talk about. And it is such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. If you're brand new, I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I think this is going to be one of those episodes that can change the trajectory of your life.

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slowly but surely, that pickup bed would become empty because your internal body's ability to just drive down the highway, it is always there, no matter how much fat is stored in your body. Is that true?

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Great. So now I want to know, Dr. Lee, how the hell do I lose this fat? You know, I see all over the place, 10 days to shed 20 pounds and all these diets that, you know, keto this and do that over here and do this. What do you actually do?

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Oh my God. So you're telling me to do it and now you're debunking it?

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Well, how long do you have to not eat for this to work?

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And I know you're going to share it with a ton of people that you care about. And I also know you're the type of person who values your time and that you're interested in learning about ways that you can improve your health. I love that. And I love that for you. I love that for the people that care about you.

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And no drinking.

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And if you or anyone that you care about is interested in losing weight or burning fat or just feeling better and getting healthier, Holy smokes, you chose the exact podcast episode to listen to at the exact moment because Dr. William Lee is in our Boston studio. So let me tell you a little bit about him.

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So are you saying that this is a tool that based on the research, anybody can use to eat in an eight hour window from like noon to 8 p.m.? Yep. And that will help you no matter what your health looks like. That will help you kick into fuel burning and fat burning mode without really having to even worry about the food yet.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Well, how do you know? when you're full? I know this is a kind of an odd question to ask, but I love food. Like, especially if I've got something in front of me that I'm really love, like a big juicy burger that, you know, the kind you squeeze to try to get in your mouth and some of the juices coming down.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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There is no way I need to eat that entire thing, especially if it's a smash burger with a couple patties. And so how do you know when enough is enough? And the click has happened.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Dr. Lee is a renowned physician scientist and the founder and president of the Angiogenesis Foundation here in Boston, where he's educated over 40,000 physicians and is currently working on cutting edge research on blood vessels and clinical applications of angiogenesis. His foundation has over 100 scientific publications and leading medical journals and textbooks.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Would you use a sandwich plate instead of a dinner plate?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

1795.167

And it slows you down. You know, Dr. Lee, you have a four-week meal plan that you've designed based on almost 30 years of experience. Can you break down some of the key features for me and the person listening?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Uh-huh.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Why is that important?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And after recommending this to patients and researching this, what might the person who does this find or have a realization other than gotta eat a lot?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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He's also served on the faculties at Tufts, Dartmouth, and Harvard Medical Schools. Dr. Lee's work has impacted more than 50 million people worldwide, and his work has led to effective prevention. novel treatments, and even reversal of diseases that span cancer, chronic wounds, obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and vision loss.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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What? Swap in? Not swap out. Swap in. Oh, swap in. I thought you said swap. I'm like, swap. Like, I'm like, that doesn't sound good.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Well, what I love about that is because you hear the word diet or lose weight and you immediately are like, oh, and it feels like you're going to have to restrict. And your swap in like methodology, it makes a lot of sense because if I think about it, I could eat a bag of chips and not even think about it. I'm not going to eat a bushel of apples. No.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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So if I'm adding in something healthy, I'm probably not going to overeat it anyway because

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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If you're sick of dieting, if you're tired of all the fads, if you're like me and you're just frustrated because you're not quite sure what to do anymore and the things that you used to eat or that you used to do, they're just no longer working, The conversation you're about to hear is going to blow your mind. I actually thought I knew what I needed to do to burn fat and lose weight.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

2046.896

I have to unbutton my pants usually.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

2109.751

Right.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Dr. Lee, I have so many more questions I want to ask you, but this feels like a great moment to take a pause and give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words. But don't you dare go anywhere. In fact, I want you to share this episode with everyone in your life because everyone needs to learn this, to apply it, to be able to use it. I just have so many more questions.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And today, this New York Times bestselling author of two books, Eat to Beat Disease and Eat to Beat Your Diet, is here in our studios to teach you the science that you need to know to unlock your body's natural ability to burn fat, lose weight, and be healthier. So please help me welcome Dr. William Lee to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Lee, I'm so excited that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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We are just getting started. Don't go anywhere. We will have more with the amazing Dr. William Lee when we return. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to learn the science and the research around how we can boost our metabolism, burn fat and lose weight from the extraordinary Dr. William Lee.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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So Dr. Lee, what are the top five foods that we should add in to boost our natural metabolism and lose weight?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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You're looking at me when you say this. Are you saying that I have white fat under my chin? The wiggly, jiggly kind.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Oh my God, have you seen me naked? That's your lead. You're describing me. I'm sorry, Chris.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Think about it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

2289.572

It burns the jiggly fat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

2293.014

Really?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

2295.436

So how the heck do I turn on the brown fat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Well, now I'm motivated. So how long do I have to stand in a cold shower in order to ignite my brown fat to burn the jiggly white fat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And the way that I wanted to start is, could you tell the person that's listening what they might expect to change in their life if they take everything that you're about to share with us today to heart and they apply it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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All right, talk to me, Doc. So what are the top foods we need to eat to turn on the brown fat to burn the jiggly fat so I can lose weight?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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You must be really fun to go grocery shopping with. I could see you in the, oh, look at the olive oil.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Well, let's talk about the five things that you recommend that everybody add, because the team went to the grocery store and we have here on the table, some of the things that you mentioned. And so I would love for you to just kind of point out some of the stuff on this plate. Tell us about the five things that we can add in or things that are really important to add in and why.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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I actually love that you're starting there because I feel like so many of us have a very conflicted love-hate relationship with food. And I think you're about to empower us to be able to understand how to love food and also have it love your body and your health.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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No.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

2732.423

Dude, I'm having a tomato right after this conversation.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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This is amazing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Well, you know what's so cool about this is you're using the research and the science, which you are clearly so passionate about, to truly teach us about the extraordinary power of your metabolism and how it's designed to work correctly. And if you feed it what it needs, the proper fuel, it like turns on for you. There are some other things that we have on the tray here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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What else do these magical things do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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That's incredible. Okay. That's incredible. What does a kiwi do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Wow. I've never heard anyone say it like that. So Dr. Lee, according to our research, about a third of our listeners have set a goal to either lose weight or to start a new diet in the new year.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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No.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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What a great tip. You should have a cooking show. I really think you should have a cooking show. Talk to me about matcha.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Watch me drink my tea now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Now, I need to clarify though, because matcha tastes like dirty grass at times. So if I want to add in a little sugar or a little something, am I killing all the benefits?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And I would love to have you connect the dots between metabolism and how it functions and what your research has shown about those of us that have excess body fat and that are carrying more extra weight around.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Wait, so coffee with chocolate helps you burn fat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3266.443

Matcha, kiwi, pomegranates, and tomatoes help you burn fat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3317.86

Well, let's talk about the bad stuff.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3393.412

Even the zeros and the diets?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3512.838

It's like 180 spoons.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3558.584

But hold on, because I thought that we talked earlier about the fact that calories are fuel and there's less calories.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3642.673

Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3725.142

It's nuclear for your gut.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Don't nuke your gut. I just love listening to you. And I almost hate to say this, but I got to hit the pause button and give our extraordinary sponsors a chance to say a few words.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And while you're taking a listen to our amazing sponsors who are bringing you Dr. William Lee and all this extraordinary information at zero cost, share this with people that you care about, because we all deserve to have the benefit of this research at our fingertips and in our lives.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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don't go anywhere because we got so much more to dig into and we're going to be waiting for you after a very short break. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to learn from the extraordinary Dr. William Lee. So Dr. Lee, What else should we avoid?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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That's disgusting. That's what you're getting when you get sliced meat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3834.64

No.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3835.701

Really?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3839.284

Well, it kind of looks like a breast. I don't know. And I see organic on the package because as you're saying processed meat, you're talking about like sliced meats.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Are you kidding me?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

3995.068

Well, it's true. It does come in a tube wrapped in plastic. I just assumed that was a part of an animal's body. Wow. So if I buy those sliced meats and it says organic. still?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And I just want to kind of unpack this a little bit because I think if you're a person that has struggled to lose weight, you feel very discouraged and you feel a lot of frustration that the weight's not going to come off.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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What else should we avoid?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4059.915

Why do we avoid bottled water?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4102.356

No.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4105.159

Really?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

413.653

And you're making a very big distinction between the kind of fat that might be flabby arms versus that very stubborn fat that starts to gather around the midsection of a lot of people's bodies.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Now, is that, like, I don't mean to, like, it sounds terrifying, but if you, what should you be drinking your water out of glass?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

43.648

I just had my mind blown. The person you're about to meet isn't here to sell you anything. except for what he calls smoking hot research and a whole lot of science that is going to help you jumpstart your metabolism, activate your body's natural fat burning ability, simply by, get this, eating the right foods. His message is so empowering. His passion just comes through in every word he says.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Now I feel like an idiot because I've handed you a silicone glass. Don't drink out of it, Dr. Lake.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4322.041

Yeah, but that's different than actually ingesting it in your food.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4360.276

And obviously impacting our metabolism.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4420.06

You have very strong opinions about what we do on airplanes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4424.631

Yes. What not to drink.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

449.969

That's not what I do. I put a towel on and hide from the mirror, but that's, and then I go eat a donut because I'm depressed. So I'm like making all the wrong choices.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Well, you know, Dr. Lee, I think one of the things that's really confusing is that there's just so much information. Where I want to go next is, since there's a lot of people around the world that may live in a place where it's really hard to find local produce or they can't grow it themselves, you know, what is the optimal place where you should be grocery shopping?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And is there a difference between farmer's market and going to your local market or grocery store?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4607.814

Let's say you can't. You're listening to this. You can't. How do you, Dr. Lee, go into a grocery store? Like what have you discovered based on your research? If you're going into a grocery store, how do you shop?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4693.395

Like what?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4722.462

Are they going to help me burn fat?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4809.748

Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

481.647

Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4810.928

What am I doing with tinned seafood, Dr. Lee?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

4889.505

Hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

499.282

They're so cute.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And more importantly, all of those things help me lose weight.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5013.95

Okay, so this is- Dr. Lee, that's the trifecta.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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I love that. Dr. Lee, you have been so generous and so passionate, and I feel... I'm unbelievably empowered by everything that you've shared with us. And I know that the person that's listening is like, okay, what do I do? What do I do? There's a lot. What do I do? So for the person listening who wants to lose weight, who would like to really focus on

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And simple steps to take to unlocking the power of your metabolism and losing some weight this year and just generally being healthier. What are the top three things that you would recommend the person listening do immediately starting today in order to achieve those goals using your research?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

521.966

Yeah, I'd be like, somebody call child services. 911, right? Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5324.511

How can following your advice about the food to add into your diet this year improve the quality of your life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

537.063

Wait, your body fat is an organ?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5382.765

Dr. Lee, what are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5405.849

I'm going to tell you what I love. I love you. Dr. Lee, I know the audience is just going to go crazy over everything you just taught us. And so I absolutely have to have you come back and talk about metabolism. And if you love spending time with Dr. Lee, I'm going to tell you something. I want you to send your questions in.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5426.623

Just go to melrobbins.com or put them in the comments below, but melrobbins.com is the best place to put them because I know that you are going to want more from him. So Dr. Lee, we are going to have you back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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I'll make sure that we bring the audience questions, but I just cannot thank you enough for spending some time with us here in our Boston studios and really, truly empowering us with everything that you just shared.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Dr. Lee, thank you, thank you, thank you. And I also want to thank you. I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to something that is going to improve your health. And I wanted to be sure to tell you in case nobody else does today that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And there is zero doubt in my mind that if you take everything to heart that Dr. Lee shared with both you and me and you try it, you're not only going to feel better, you're going to get healthier and that is going to help you live a better life. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. You're absolutely... Is it normal for somebody to talk to you and be salivating?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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I feel my mouth watering. And the fact that you've hit play and you've taken the time to listen to this tells me that you're the kind of person who not only values your time... But you're also... I got too much saliva in my mouth. Dr. Lee is a renowned physician, scientist, and he is the founder and president of the Antigenesis... Oh, Jesus Christ. There goes our bloopers. How do you say it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Can you just give me the word? Angiogenesis. That I understand. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5528.323

This is my husband. It's super annoying. Okay. Keep going. All right.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5533.987

Don't nuke your gut.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5540.473

Is that a medical term?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

5544.116

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Tracy. Are you not just loving this? You're amazing. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

560.636

Dr. Lee, that is so cool.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

609.627

Don't tell me it's fat.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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His advice is specific and science-backed. So wherever you are in your health journey or your weight loss journey or whatever journey you're on, World-renowned Dr. William Lee is here to tell you, based on 30 years of scientific research, that yes, your body can lose weight, you can burn fat, and yes, you can rewire your metabolism.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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You know, that makes me think of another question, Dr. Lee. Is there a way to lose weight? and still enjoy food? I mean, how do you want us to think about this?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

708.391

Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

757.103

Yeah. I feel like I don't have a click, Dr. Lee.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

869.322

I don't know.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

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Wait, so you're basically, if you eat beyond the click in terms of what you actually just need for fuel. Yep. Your body is designed to, through fat cells, to create storage tanks for all this fuel. And when you run out of the storage tanks in your fat cells, your stem cells actually kick into gear and create more cells to hold this energy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William Li

90.657

And by the time you're done listening, you're going to look at your body and the topic of burning fat in an entirely new way. It is time to ditch the diets and start using science. Hey, it's your buddy Mel Robbins. I am so fired up that you're here. Can you tell? You know, there are moments where you tune in and you're like, whoa, Mel has eaten something today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You know, I've been in a really reflective mood lately. I'm always that way this time of year. And so I decided to just look back over the year and think about the moments on the podcast that had the biggest impact on me.

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And his work centers around how to be a better communicator in a way that brings you closer to people and allows you to have the hard conversations. Because the fact is, you got to have hard conversations to make your relationships better. And that person that I'm talking about is none other than the amazing Jefferson Fisher.

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Now, Jefferson Fisher is a seasoned trial lawyer, but he's gained millions of followers online because he sits in the front seat of his car in between his cases in court, giving straightforward, powerful communication advice. And what I love about Jefferson is he's got this just kind of soft spoken way of teaching you how to be articulate and persuasive and tactful and to stand your ground.

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And I've been following him for a long time and I've watched him just explode on social media. And so I'm proud that he jumped on a plane from Texas. He came to our Boston studios and he taught you and me how the power of what you say and what you don't say shapes who you are, that your words matter. And he is just the king of practical insights when it comes to how do you speak up?

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When do you say silent? What do you do if somebody's gaslighting you? And my favorite topic that I covered with Jefferson is how do you actually set up a difficult conversation, okay? And it turns out I've been doing it all wrong and you probably have too.

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Because when you think about having to sit down with somebody and have a conversation that you're really nervous about, and you know that's true because you've been avoiding it like the plague, you probably dance around it. Well, Jefferson says that's exactly what you shouldn't do. And so I'm going to have you listen to him.

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You're making me panic.

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As I'm listening to you, Jefferson.

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This is an absolutely extraordinary episode to listen to as your very first episode. I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family, and it's a real honor to have you here. And I'm absolutely thrilled to be able to share these meaningful moments with you.

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I didn't even know what to say because he's right. And my entire life, I'm 56 years old. I have handled this wrong. Because first of all, if I have something hard I need to say to somebody or I have to give somebody some difficult feedback or I got to sit somebody down and just tell them, yep, I'm not going to do what you need me to do or I don't want to be in this relationship anymore.

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I do tiptoe around it. I am afraid of the other person's reaction. Sometimes I don't want to deal with the reaction. And that's why I kind of do that thing where you try to like make it softer than it needs to be. But he's right, isn't he?

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imagine my favorite thing is this isn't my favorite thing to talk about this is not something I want to be having a conversation with you about right now this is not going to be a good conversation I have bad news I mean just saying that you feel kind of powerful because you're just putting it out there and I love what he also reminded you and me of it's true

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People will respect you if you respect them enough to just tell them the truth. And when you tell somebody, hey, this isn't my favorite conversation, but I need to tell you the truth. What happens is you're also saying, I believe in your ability to handle the truth and I respect you enough to give it to you. And that was an eye-opener for me and I've been using it ever since.

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And so the next thing that really struck me about Jefferson, and you know, if you haven't heard the episode, the link is in the notes section in the show description, wherever it is that you're listening to this conversation or watching on YouTube right now. That tone of voice that he has, he didn't modulate the entire conversation. There's so much power in being in control of your words.

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And I don't know about you, but there are moments in life where somebody says something that's sort of like a backhanded compliment or they are a little belittling. Like oftentimes I find that that happens a lot where people will make a remark about my success and then they'll kind of cut Chris down, my husband, and be like, must be nice to have your wife pay all the bills.

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And I've never known how to respond. And neither has Chris. When somebody kind of belittles you that way or says something backhanded, well, now I do. Thanks to Jefferson. Here's what he had to say is the way you need to handle it the next time somebody says something that you find offensive or belittling.

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Of course, there's no better place for me to start, for me, when Dr. Doty hopped on a plane and flew all the way across the United States to join me in our Boston studios. And let me tell you a little bit about him, and then I'm gonna tell you about what you're gonna hear. Dr. Jim Doty is a pioneering Stanford neurosurgeon.

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We need to role play this.

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I'm trying to think of a scenario.

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I need you to repeat that.

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Tell you what, we're all taking Jefferson Fisher with us to every family interaction because we got instigators in our family. You know, the kind of people that, oh, I'm just kidding. Oh, I didn't mean it that way. You don't need to be so sensitive. I love this. I need you to say that again. I can't wait for somebody to turn to me and Chris and take a jab at Chris.

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Oh, must be nice to be married to Mel and not have to do anything all day. I need you to say that again. Are you saying that to belittle me? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like all of a sudden it's not that fun anymore. Man, I love Jefferson Fisher. Don't you love Jefferson Fisher? He made a huge impact on my life this year. And so, wow.

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Well, there are four more experts, we're just getting started, that have had a profound impact on me this year. And you're going to meet them after we take a very short break so you can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. Don't you dare go anywhere because I got more of my favorite moments and they're going to be your favorite moments too when we return. Stay with me. Welcome back.

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It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today I'm sharing with you a few of my favorite moments from the last year on the Mel Robbins podcast. And these are moments with experts where I was either really moved or I learned something that fundamentally changed how I either deal with a specific situation or how I look at a particular issue.

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And by pioneering, I mean the man has actually created a spinal surgery technique that has transformed spinal surgery. He's also a world-renowned neuroscientist. He's founded a bunch of companies. He's also the founder and the director of the Stanford Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education, and the former chairman of the Dalai Lama Foundation.

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So we've already covered Dr. Doty and the way that he has truly made you realize that you have the power to help someone else. simply by being kind to somebody. He also told us that you got to be calm if you're going to try to manifest. And that's not just advice, it's neuroscience.

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We also learned from Jefferson Fisher, simple things you can say to take your power back when somebody is trying to take your power away. I need you to say that again. I think I'm going to talk in that slow kind of draw that he has that just feels powerful, doesn't it? Well, I'm going to tell you what else is powerful. And that is when I got to sit down with Dr. Rebecca Robbins.

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Now, Dr. Rebecca is a professor at Harvard Medical School, and she is a leading researcher on sleep and circadian rhythms at Brigham and Women's Hospital. Dr. Robbins has earned her PhD from Cornell and completed postdoctoral training at NYU and Harvard, specializing in sleep and circadian disorders.

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Now, if you wanted to see her in her private practice, like we're talking years to get into her sleep clinic. Her research is the research that people that write books about sleep are citing. So she is the OG when it comes to sleep. And one of the things that I noticed immediately is her voice is is so soothing.

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I mean, we need a sleep app with Dr. Robin's voice on it, but she showed up and shared actionable science-based strategies that are gonna help you have better sleep overall, that's gonna boost your energy, your focus, and your overall wellbeing. And one of the things that she talked about, there are two moments that I'm gonna share with you that really changed how I think about sleep

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and what I do at night to get ready for sleep. And the first thing that we talked about is that, you know, I don't know what you're like, but 10 o'clock is my bedtime. Do you know what time I climb in bed? 10 o'clock. Do you know what time I think I should be asleep? 10 o'clock. I literally go from 100 miles an hour running around the house to 10 o'clock, I'm right in my bed.

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Dr. Robbins was like, major mistake. Check this out.

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So is that takeaway number one, that climbing into bed so you have a consistent time that you're signaling that you're gonna start the process of falling asleep and having your alarm ring at roughly the same time is one of the first things we wanna do?

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You know, just listening to her, I'm like, I know she didn't mean it this way, but I'm like, Mel, you dummy. Like, why do you think you can sprint from the kitchen fully clothed in your clogs while you're texting your kids goodnight and turning off the lights? And then literally, do you get undressed by the side of your bed? I get undressed by the side of my bed. I do.

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Now, Dr. Doty was in our studios to talk about his work and research on the topic of manifesting. That's right. We're learning about the process of manifesting from a neurosurgeon. And he just... opened my eyes to the topic of manifesting in ways that I cannot wait to share with you because I believe in manifesting.

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And then I climb in and then I lay there. It's like, because there's no buffer. And when you hear her tell you the truth and the science about needing a simple wind-down routine, it just makes sense, doesn't it? And I thought, Mel, you deserve that.

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I mean, on the nights where you take a bath, woman, you crawl into that bed just like you did when you were a kid, all swaddled up and warm, and you just, whew, you just fall right asleep. Why are you not doing this every night? And so I asked Dr. Robbins, I was like, okay, yes, I'm in. I want that cup of tea. I want that wind down routine.

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And so I said, you know, Dr. Robbins is one of the leading sleep researchers on the planet in clinical practice, running the sleep web. What is your wind down routine? And just take a listen to what she had to say, because I think you will never look at your evening routine the same ever again?

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But learning about how there are four different parts of your brain that you're using when you're manifesting, it was just mind-blowing and empowering. So the first thing I want to share with you from that conversation with Dr. Doty is a story that he shared at the very beginning of our conversation, where he describes being a 12-year-old kid.

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Oh my gosh. So here's what I've done with that. I think about what are the three things that I can do every night, no matter where I am. And I want you to think about these three things too. Take her invitation, because she did speak directly to you. What are three things you can do every single night that kind of become your wind down routine, that signal to you that it's time?

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And for me, the first thing is I always draw Beth. Like that's my new, ever since Dr. Robbins, I do not miss it. And in fact, when I go to a hotel, I beg for a room with a bathtub. And I know that might kind of gross you out. If it looks kind of dingy, I'll just wash it before I climb into it. But I love a bath. And if I can't have a bath, I'll take a shower.

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And when I start drying the bath or I turn on the shower, that's my signal to plug my phone in for the night and to just turn off the screen and leave it in the bathroom. And then I take the bath. And when I'm done with the bath, this may be getting a little too personal here.

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I don't know if I should be telling you this, but while I'm soaking wet, I put lotion all over my body because I feel like it locks in the moisture and I want really smooth skin. So there you have it. There's my skincare tip. And then I just climb into bed. I turn off the light. And before I drift off to sleep, the final thing I do is I put my hand on my heart and I close my eyes.

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And I think about three things that went really well today. Because your brain will find what you ask it to look for. And this kind of goes back to the Dr. Doty manifesting piece that at the end of the day with this routine, especially after a hot shower bath and without a phone anywhere near me.

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And now that I'm climbed into like my cozy sheets and I've got my hand in my heart, I'm calm, aren't I? And so as I go through the day and I think about three things that went well or three things that I'm grateful for, this is a form of manifesting because I'm training my mind to default on what's good. And that helps me continue to see things that are good.

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You know, the ones where I was really moved or an expert challenged me to think about a topic in an entirely new way, or they shared a tool that fundamentally changed my approach to something. And so I've decided to gather up my favorite moments today and share them with you. And you're about to meet the six experts.

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And usually I kind of drift right off to sleep. But I think the most encouraging thing that Dr. Robbins did share is that sleeping is a skill. And you can take intentional, simple steps that she shares in that episode to learn how to be a better sleeper. That's available to you. And it's one of the core pillars of creating a better life. And so here's what we're going to do.

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We are going to hit the pause. We're with people in your life that you care about, whether it's because they need to hear the part about manifesting or they need the strategies from Jefferson Fisher, or they've been complaining that they haven't been getting a great night's sleep. I mean, the gift of the world's leading sleep researcher, it's free.

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Just share this episode and don't go anywhere because after you hear a word from our sponsors, you know what's going to happen? I'm going to kick it up a notch because we've got three more amazing people that I'm going to introduce you to. One of whom is Trent Shelton, former NFL player, does not fool around. Everything that comes out of that man's mouth is like a truth bomb meets a soul slap.

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He grew up in a house where there was a lot of conflict and fighting, and he would hop on his bike and And rides his bike is far away from the stuff going on in the household that he grew up in. And one day he ends up at this magic shop and it changed the trajectory of his life because of how the woman working in that magic shop taught him as a 12 year old.

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whatever that means, but you know, we're going to be picking it up and we're going to be dropping the truth and you are going to feel motivated and inspired because Trent Shelton is coming next. And we're talking about your personal power. We're talking about protecting your peace and he's going to give you his three-step guide to having better boundaries. So stay with me.

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Welcome back, it's your friend Mel Robbins. Today, I'm sharing my favorite moments with experts that appeared on the Mel Robbins podcast in the past year. And I've got six people that really touched my heart, they changed my mind, They gave me the tools that I needed to approach situations in my life differently.

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And the next person that I'm thrilled to introduce you to is a very dear friend of mine. His name is Trent Shelton. Trent is a former NFL player, and he is also an extraordinary motivational speaker and New York Times bestselling author. Now, I love Trent. And we're constantly texting back and forth and sharing ideas about business and life and parenting.

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And after his NFL career, Trent became a powerful voice in personal growth. And he inspires millions of people to claim their power and change their lives. He reaches over 60 million people every single week. And his book, Protect Your Peace, New York Times bestseller. He hopped on a plane and flew all the way from Texas and arrived in our Boston studios.

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And holy cow, like an NFL coach, he was ready to go. And what was the topic? He wants to set the record straight about what you're accepting in life. and your power to change the dynamic between you and other people, the power that you have to protect your peace. And so I want you to sit up straight and take a listen, because I'm gonna pass the mic to my friend, Trent.

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And I'm going to play this in just a minute for you to listen to. But the reason why this is so important is is that I believe that we are all equipped to help one another. In fact, I think that you're best equipped to help the person that you once were.

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So true.

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That's right, Trent. And none of us want to see that, right? We want to blame other people. But I love that Trent walked you and me step by step through how you can think about boundaries and why you need them. And I'll tell you why, because your piece is worth protecting.

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And it's very clear to me that when this 12-year-old version of Jim Doty walked into the magic shop, the woman working there saw a kid who needed someone to care. And that right there changed the trajectory of his entire life.

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And the thing that I keep thinking about over and over and over again, did you catch that part where he talked about your energy is a battery? And that you spend more time trying to protect your iPhone and recharging your smartphone than you do protecting your own energy and recharging your own battery. And that's why I've come back to this over and over and over again.

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It's also one of the reasons why I love the let them theory so much. Because let them, when you say let them, you know what that is? That's a boundary. You're drawing a boundary and saying, I recognize that this is not a situation that I care to drain my energy over, so I'm going to let them. And the second part, when you go, let me, let me focus on what's in my control.

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Let me focus on what I want to say, think and do. Let me protect my peace and preserve my energy and recharge myself. That's a boundary too. And so I just want to thank Trent for giving you permission and showing up here with a level of urgency and honesty to say, you tell people how to treat you by what you continuously accept.

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So let them and start focusing on yourself because it's going to make you a heck of a lot happier. And speaking of happiness, that brings me to the fifth person this year. I just find myself reflecting on this conversation a lot. Who am I talking about? Talking about Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar. Dr. Tal Ben-Jahar is a globally recognized authority on happiness.

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He's known for his groundbreaking research on goals, motivation, and well-being. And he also taught two of Harvard's most popular courses ever taught. And those courses are positive psychology and the psychology of leadership, making his work foundational in the study of happiness. He is also the bestselling author of eight books. That's incredible.

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Where he distills complex psychology and practical insights and empowers people worldwide to pursue a more fulfilling life. Now he rolled into our Boston studios and I got to tell you, I don't know what was in the air, but one of the reasons why I remember this and you're going to hear it in the best of bloopers at the end of this episode is the cameras kept breaking.

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It was almost like there were poltergeists in the studio. I'm sitting here with the world-renowned expert in happiness. He's got a big smile on his face. Click, camera turn off. Oh my gosh, we laugh. Click, camera turns off. Oh my gosh. It happened like 17 times. And you want to know what? He's the real deal. He just sat there smiling because he knows the meaning of happiness.

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And he taught it to us in the conversation. And it was in this conversation that he revealed the major mistake that I had been making around happiness. And you might too. Now, I think I'm like a very happy person. I'm a very optimistic person. And up until this conversation, I had been trying to be a happy person. And then he comes out of nowhere and shares this piece of advice.

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I learned that every morning when I would wake up and say to myself, oh, Mel, you're going to be happy today. I was actually doing something wrong. Check this out.

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I want to make sure you really understand the power of this metaphor. He's saying that if you and I stare intently at something that we think is going to make us happier. Like, let's just say you're single and you just think, oh my gosh, if only I can find the one that I'm going to be happier, or if I can make more money, I'm going to be happier.

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If I can find a house to buy that I can, I'm going to be happier. That that kind of pursuit of it and this intense focus, it's the same thing as staring at the sun. It creates blindness, makes you miserable. You see all these dots. That's not going to make you happy is what he's saying. But when you break apart the sun through a prism, it casts a rainbow.

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And if you really stop and think about the power of that idea, the sun is a singular thing. When you break it apart through a prism and it creates a rainbow of a full range of colors, think about the massive amount of possibility in that, that there are so many things that make you happy.

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That even if you think about the band of purple, that the band of purple in a rainbow, it's not just one color of purple. It's this just shades and different hues of purple. What does that mean? What he's basically saying to you is, first of all, happiness is more than one thing.

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Happiness is made up of a bazillion different things that all come together to create this magnificent thing called a rainbow. Don't just stare at the sun. When you understand that it is comprised of so many things that are right around you and available to you, you don't have to go for it at all. You don't have to stare blindly at one thing.

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You can just welcome it in and appreciate all that's around you. I mean, it's just such a cool concept. And so I said to him, because I started to wonder, okay, I really get this. And it's very much changed how I think about this because I can now have one thing that's going really badly. Like I can have a horrendous day at work or I can get very sad news.

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And then because I understand that the feeling of happiness in your life isn't the one thing, it's actually all things, that I still have the space to stare off at a sunset and allow it in. I still have the space to see my dogs playing with one another and to smile and to allow it in.

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that it's not just the thing that you think that's going to make you happy, that you can be happier now by allowing yourself to be, because it's all around you and it's in so many things that are right there. And so I was really curious. I'm like, okay, what does the professor who taught two of the most popular courses ever at Harvard, what is his definition of happiness?

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And so I asked him, and this is what Dr. Ben Shahar had to say.

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I love that. I absolutely love that. I guess he must be one of the most popular professors ever at Harvard because I certainly learned a lot and his perspective changed the way that I not only view happiness, but certainly how I experience it. While we're on the topic of happiness, Let me just talk about something that can make you really unhappy, and that's not handling your money correctly.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And it may surprise you that one of my all-time favorite moments of the entire year happened to be when I sat down with a financial expert. I absolutely loved getting to meet and learn from and spend time with the extraordinary Tiffany Aliche. Now, Tiffany flew into our Boston studios from Atlanta. I got to tell you, Tiffany's a genius.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Like you are literally going to learn you don't need discipline. You need automation. She's going to help you fight your humanness. She's going to help you figure out what are your wants versus your needs. She's going to make you think about a budget like your mother. She is also going to tell you there's a moment where it's the truth time, tissues and tears, baby. But most of all, she's a realist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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She's been there. Her advice is hilarious and it works. So check this out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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I like the name money list.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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A budget. Okay. I love this reframe because I hear the word budget and I hear no and restriction. And you're saying that the budget is how you say yes to what's important.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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So for somebody hearing you say that and they're like, but I've never made a budget or I've never stuck to one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you've made the money list and you see what's coming in and what's coming out. You're like faced with the reality. Yeah. Tears and tissues. Yes. And you see that you are outspending every month what's actually coming in.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Never going to turn the lights on in this house. Get the candles.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And give me an example. I know that sounds like a basic question, but is your mortgage a bill?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Like when you were standing at Walmart or Sephora and you're like, yeah, I'd like 10% off this. And then you're like, oh, wait, that's a credit card.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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So your student loan does not have a U. Your mortgage or rent does not have a U. But the- Water. Electricity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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The data on your phone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, one of the things that I worry about, and I'd be curious to hear your perspective, is that you and I both had the experience of being in college. And it's that opening week. And literally at the opening registration fair, there were banks with credit card tables. You get your Snickers bar when you sign up for one, and then it's free money. But I worry a lot about...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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the fact that in today's world, particularly for people who are in their 20s and 30s, that social media has become Like shopping with a click. And you and I had to leave our house to go spend money back in the day. And when I think about TikTok or Instagram, every other freaking suggested thing has a shop now button. Mm-hmm. And stuff gets sent to your house.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And have you seen a big increase, because you've been doing this for a while, in people in the spending category? That spending has gotten so easy because of social media. It's always in your face. You always see what you're missing out on. There's an influencer that has the product for free who's like, this changed my life. And oh, click, click, click. It's 11.30 at night. So do you see...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, so you at your company level, you basically say X percent of my paycheck is going to go into checking account.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, as I'm listening to her, I'm just smiling. Doesn't she make you want to do a budget? You better believe she does. And she's going to help you automate it because you deserve to get good with money and she's going to help you out. And so I hope that is a episode and that segment is something that you share with everybody that you love because everybody needs to hear it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And it's fun to listen to. But that wasn't the moment that just rocked me to my core. It was at the very end, after we had spent an hour and a half talking budgets and bills and bankruptcy and automation, I asked her, do you have any final parting wisdom that you'd like to share?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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You are a gift to all of us. Thank you. Thank you for absolutely everything that you poured into us today. What's coming up for you?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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He was a really good man. He still is. And he's really proud of you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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We're really fortunate that we have you. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. You're welcome. I, um, I feel very grateful that you are now my friend. Thank you. Thank you. And the thing is, is that when you don't understand money And you were going to make me cry. When you don't understand money and you're really scared about where you are, it clouds everything that's important. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Until it comes crashing in your face and you waste it. And you spend all your emotional energy in that shame. Yeah. And you not only miss the solutions, but you're not present for your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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You lifted it up. You made it way more important, honestly. Thank you. No, thank you. Thank you. It wasn't just a moment that moved me. Thousands of you took the time to write to me about it. I'm not even talking about the number of you that commented on it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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or that left reviews about that episode, or shared that episode with the people that you love, thousands of you from around the world took the time to write to me at melrobbins.com. I mean, within days, they just came pouring in comments like this one from Jennifer, The last few minutes of this hit hard.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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My husband was a financial advisor for a large firm and he had a lot of similar philosophies as Tiffany. My husband also passed away last year. When she broke down, I felt it hard. She is so right about spending money on memories. I'm planning a big trip, an expensive one, with my sons because we've gone through a lot with the loss of their dad.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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It will be so worth every penny because we will remember it forever. Our family was so focused on saving and paying off debt that we didn't make those amazing family memories when he was alive. And I don't want to leave this earth without my kids having those memories with me. It makes you really stop and think, why are you working so hard if you never stop and allow yourself to actually enjoy it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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I will never forget that conversation with Tiffany. And it has fundamentally changed the way that I think about money, the way I think about the importance of memories and time with the people that you love while you have it, and slowing down and allowing myself to enjoy the time that I have, that rainbow that Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar was talking about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you're going to hear the moments from the Mel Robbins podcast that fundamentally changed my life. And I promise you, they're going to change your life too. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always such an honor to be able to spend time together with you. And today in particular, I think our time is going to be extraordinarily moving.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because as I often say, there's an invisible clock that none of us can see. And so while you still got the time, I deeply, truly hope you choose to make the most of it. I wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart for spending so much time with me this year. It's such an honor to be together with you, to take walks with you, to ride in the car with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I do not take your trust or the fact that you spend your time and your energy with me lightly. It is one of the greatest gifts that I've ever received in my life and I'm gonna do everything I can to make everything that we do next year even more amazing than the topics that we covered this year.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And one of the things that is extraordinarily clear from all of the experts and the time that we've spent together this year, is that allowing yourself to enjoy what you have is one way that you can create a better life right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Alrighty, I'll see you in the next episode. Okay, well, hold on a second. Here we go. Hold on a second. Let's save this for, let's get started.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's beautiful. You know, it really moved me to see just how in tune he is with this simple idea that everyone deserves to be seen. And I want to underscore something, and it's this. Never forget your own ability to change someone else's life. I really do believe you have the power to help yourself and to help someone else. And that's one of the reasons why I show up here every single week.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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No way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why headless?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Mister, I don't really know what I'm doing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know what? I'm going to actually use that quote. You're pretty cool. I think we're supposed to be friends.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, my God. Okay, tonight we're getting sleep. Tonight we're sleeping. I love that. Oh, my God. That's what you're pulling up top, right? The second she said that, I would've been like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Are you guys ready for us? Yeah. Sorry. I just want... Are cameras rolling? I should probably wait in case I say something. Okay. Okay. I'm on? Great. And as soon as the tele... Audio only. You know what? Do you guys have a cloth for these things? I don't know about your glasses. Always. It's like, how the hell do they get so dirty? Do you think we touch our glasses a lot and we don't realize it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Around the world. Did you hear that again?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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I know you, you know, you hear that. We're going to keep going. The thing that I found. His did not turn off. That one did.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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That one I did.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Did it just turn off? Awesome. Great show.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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There we go. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. This is great. Okay. Here we go. It looks fantastic. Here we go. Okay. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. We got to go back up. Let's give it. Let me just do one thing real quick. Okay. Right. Will you take it all the way till after the break? Yeah, just jump into there. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Portal is open, baby. Portal is open. The magnet. Oh my God. Trent. Oh my God. That work? Okay. All right. Great. I got to wait for my action though. All right. Are we good with that? Is the garbage truck done? We're just going to keep going. Go for it. And we'll go up a little bit more. I'm sorry. I should say back, shouldn't I? Is that good? Is that simpler?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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That stuff like flies over my head when people start talking about that. Okay. I'm going to do one more. Sorry. Including. Okay. Sorry. Go up one more time. 2 million people to be exact. Save million. Oh my Lord. Let me go back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And it's why I'm so grateful that you and I get to spend time together, because that's what we're doing. We're helping one another to feel seen, to understand the simple things that we can do to lift each other up. And so once I wiped away the tears, we got down to the topic that Dr. Doty was there to talk about, which is manifesting.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now manifesting is something that I believe in, and it's not just closing your eyes and hoping that a pony shows up. Manifesting is the process where you intentionally align your thoughts with what you truly want in life. And when you do it properly, you are programming your mind, your body, your spirit, your nervous system, your brain, to help you get these things.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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It doesn't mean you don't do the work. It just means you're aligning your own body and mindset to help you do the work. And I love manifesting. It is a tool that I use. But Dr. Doty was the very first person to point out a huge mistake that everybody makes when they're manifesting.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And he's a neuroscientist, so he can not only explain the four different parts of the brain that you're using when you're visualizing and when you're thinking about and allowing yourself to feel the things in your life that you want to have happen. But the major mistake that we're all making, oh my gosh, wait till you hear this. you're manifesting when you're stressed out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Like you're driving to work and traffic's all backed up and you're gripping the wheel and you're closing your eyes and traffic's stopping. You're like, I just want a beach house and a million dollars. It doesn't work that way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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If you're single and you're like constantly bummed and on edge and you think dating's toxic and you're allowing some stranger who just ghosted you to deplete your self-esteem, manifesting the love of your life, not going to work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Dr. Doty said, and this is something I'd never known, that in order for you to manifest properly, you have to be calm, which to me makes sense, but it was also a revelation. Wow. Who knew? Well, I guess we do now. And so I want to bring you to the point where Dr. Doty has explained, no, you got to be calm. And this is the part people miss. You want to manifest something.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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You got to get intentional about what you want. You got to drop yourself into a calm state. And then that's when you start to write it down. That's when you visualize it. And so I asked Dr. Doty, you're like the king of this stuff and you're a neurosurgeon and neuroscientist. So tell us, what's your process? What do you do when you wake up to put yourself in a state to manifest?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because he had explained, oh, I manifest from the moment I wake up. I'm like, okay, well, help us do the same thing. And this is what he said.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And what is the breathing exercise?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the reason why I'm saying that is because I have been thinking a lot about the last year on the podcast. And I wanted to compile the top moments with experts on this podcast over the last year

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love that. I love that you can not only use neuroscience and these simple techniques to calm yourself down and then leverage the power of your brain to start to imagine the things that you want in your life, but that there's also this reminder that everything in life is way better when you're sharing it with other people. And that's why I wanted to start with Dr. Jim Doty.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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that truly moved me, that impacted my life, that made me look at a very important topic in life in an entirely new way, that inspired me to change something, not just change it, but to change it for good. And so I'm so excited to be able to share with you Moments with six experts that changed my life. And if you're brand new to the Mel Robbins Podcast, somebody sent you this episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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I mean, I just have not stopped thinking about him since he walked out of our studio. I feel like the exact same things that he's just shared with you about your ability to help another person is why you and I are here. It's why you're sharing these episodes. And it's why I'm so proud to call you my friend.

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The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I'm also grateful that, you know, you didn't see him if you're not watching on YouTube, but he's like this tall guy with white hair and these big black glasses like mine. And you can tell he's just like super confident. And if you saw him at a cocktail party, you would never say to yourself, oh, that's a dude that manifests.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So to have him sit down and be so emotional and moved by how much suffering there is, And how it doesn't have to be that way. That there are simple tools that you can use, like manifesting, like calming yourself down, that can help you change the way that you think. It can help you see bigger possibilities. It can help you ease your own suffering.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I just am grateful that Dr. Doty took the time to be here to teach both of us that. And since one of my favorite moments ended with Dr. Doty reminding us that the journey of life is something that we're doing with other people, that brings me to the second person this year that has had a lasting impact on me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So recently, a couple of my friends and someone in my family has started taking Ozembic. And I'm gonna be honest with you, I have had a wide range of reactions to it. Now, first of all, I was so excited for my family member to be prioritizing their health. And on the other hand, I was actually kind of worried.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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Well, what you've already shared is so enlightening and empowering. And I kind of want to go back to each of these five things, because you said that there are kind of five factors that are part of a multi-layered cause of the disease of obesity. So let's go to the five things. And I wrote them down as you were talking because I was like, oh my God, oh my God.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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So lifestyle, genetics, hormonal changes, aging, and environmental factors. And of those five causes of the disease of obesity, there's only one that you have control over. And that was some of the lifestyle choices that you make. But you are still fighting against genetics, hormone changes, aging, and environmental factors.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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So that makes a lot of sense to me, why somebody can be working really hard at the lifestyle part and not seeing anything change. And so could you walk us through the four, the genetics, the hormone changes, aging, and environmental factors? I know we're gonna kinda go deeper in this, but just give us a sense of how each one of those four things really is a cause

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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That's why our medical expert today will tell you, if you're struggling with your weight, it is not your fault. She will also tell you who GLP-1 drugs are meant for and who they're not, the surprising truth about the side effects. And she has a very stern warning against mail ordering this, getting it from a website or a friend or microdosing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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for the disease of obesity or for somebody who's struggling with being overweight? Definitely.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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What I love about what you're sharing is that if there are five factors that are present and that cause... the disease of obesity. I would imagine that you as a medical doctor now are able to help a patient in a very different way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

1262.256

And so given that obesity is now classified as a chronic disease, how does that change the way that you treat patients and the various kind of tools that you have at your disposal to empower somebody?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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Now, this conversation today is a free resource with one of the world's leading experts on the medication everyone is talking about. You're not only going to leave informed and empowered, but you will never ever think about weight loss or the struggle to lose it the same way again. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

1347.866

Because there are four factors outside of your control that you've just unpacked. Genetics, hormone changes, aging, and all the environmental factors, largely because of big farming and industrialized food and all the crap that they put in it, that's screwing up and confusing your body's ability to process food. And I'm breaking them in big five umbrellas.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

1386.974

So I would love to have you talk about the GLP-1 medications because I didn't realize they'd been around for decades. I had no idea. I've seen them in the headlines. They're all over the place. I have, like many people, I have people in my life that are taking them and they're life-changing, but I didn't realize that they've been around for a long time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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So could you talk to us about what they are, how long they've been around, like when you first started using them in your clinical practice? Definitely.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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2005? Yes. What? 20 years now. 20 years?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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What does GLP-1 stand for?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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Is that what the word peptide means, hormone?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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So this little gila lizard bites its prey or whatever, and the venom of it activates the pancreas and sends the thing into a state of diabetic shock?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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What? ! So what exactly does the GLP-1 do to the pancreas?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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And how does this connect to somebody who is struggling with being overweight or somebody who's struggling with the disease of obesity?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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I didn't realize that a spike in insulin means you're also going to crave more food, which then means that if you're the kind of person that has either environmental factors where you're eating a ton of processed food that never fills you up and is just full of stuff that spikes your insulin, that is going to become part of the cycle that you're on without even realizing that you're now trapped in this cycle and it's not your fault.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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Exactly. Wow. So what have you seen in the last 15 years since you've been using GLP-1s as a tool in your medical practice? What have you seen in terms of the benefit to patients, how this is used as a tool, the difference that it makes?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

#1 Weight Loss Doctor: The Truth About Obesity, Ozempic, Dieting, & How to Feel Better Now

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I am so excited to learn about our topic today. And, you know, I just got to say, it is such an honor to spend time with you. It's an honor to be together. If you're a new listener, I want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode and learn more about this particular topic... Here's what I know.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If these drugs have been around for 20 years, at least in terms of a specific treatment for type 2 diabetes, why is it that we're all just hearing about it now?

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So they'd basically be like, I might as well just be injecting insulin at this point.

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Yeah. And just so I remember, because it's already flown out of my brain, that how it works is that it stimulates your pancreas? For type 2 diabetes, yes.

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Okay. That's why we can use it in people that don't have diabetes. Got it. So 15 years ago, When you were prescribing this to your patients in your clinical practice, it's twice a day, the side effects were a lot worse, and it was really limited to treating type 2 diabetes. So what has happened in the last 15 years?

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Okay, so this is going to make me sound like the world's biggest idiot, but if you inject insulin for type 2 diabetes, it actually makes you gain weight? Yes. That does not seem fair. It does not. It is not, but that's all we had back then. Okay. that was an off-label finding.

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I know you're the kind of person who values your health and you're looking for evidence-based information. And today, you're going to get it because we're talking about the weight loss medications that are all over the headlines.

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And so all of a sudden, you're in your medical practice, you are prescribing this, some patients are using it despite the nausea, and you're like, holy cow, we're seeing weight loss, which is fantastic for people.

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So how long have you been prescribing these to people as a tool for treating the disease of obesity or for somebody who's struggling with being overweight? Since 2010. So you're like a pioneer in this. Yes. Wow. And when did all these studies start to happen?

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Why do they rebrand it? So that they can market it to a different segment of people who are like, I don't want to take the diabetes drug.

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And if someone that you love sent this to you, well, first, I want to acknowledge you for choosing to hit play because the fact that they sent this to you means that they deeply care about you and your health or they care about their health and want you to learn more about what they're doing. And you deserve this. to have great health.

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Wow. So how exactly does the GLP-1 work to help somebody lose weight or to change their metabolism if they don't have diabetes?

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Wow. And it doesn't touch the pancreas?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Wow. Dr. Salas Whalen, I am so grateful for everything that you're sharing with us today. And here's what I want to do. I want to take a quick pause so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to say a few words. I also want to give you a chance to share this with people in your life that are coming to mind as you're listening to Dr. Salas Whalen.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And don't go anywhere because we're just getting started in unpacking this super important topic. Dr. Salas Whalen has so much more to teach you after this short break. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I have the privilege of sitting and spending time with Dr. Salas Whalen.

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We are learning so much about the topic of weight loss and weight gain and the reason why it's not your fault if you or your family members are struggling with this. And we're also digging into the weight loss medication that everybody is talking about.

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So, you know, one of the things that I see that I know a lot of people see, and this is sort of like this also could be more shaming, but you see, you know, celebrities who want to lose an extra 15 pounds or you see the Ozembic face, you know, all over social media. And I'm just curious what your opinion is about who these medications are for and when you're a candidate and when you may not be.

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And you also deserve access to doctors who really care about you being empowered and informed about your health, and that you really understand the tools that are available to you. Now, you may have heard of this new class of weight loss medications called GLP-1s. The most well-known one is Ozempic.

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How do you do body composition?

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So, you know, do you see a lot of people coming in that want to try these drugs to lose an extra 10 pounds?

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And today, I brought in a world-renowned expert, Dr. Rocio Salas-Whalen, to break down the truth about these medications. Who are they for? What are the risks? And what do you or someone you love need to know if you're considering using them? Dr. Salas Whalen is a triple board certified physician in endocrinology, obesity medicine, and internal medicine.

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If someone comes to you, Dr. Salas-Whalen, and they're looking to be put on or prescribed one of these medications, what are some of the questions that you ask them to assess whether or not the medication is a good fit?

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So is there a percentage of body fat that you look for to see if somebody's a good fit for this kind of medication?

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Is there a benefit to using a GLP-1 during menopause?

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Can you give us an example of someone who should not be taking this medication?

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You know, when one of my family members was considering going on this medication, the concern was, well, am I going to have to take this for life? Like, is this something that you take for the rest of your life? Or is it something you take for a period of time? And then once you sort of rewire cravings and how full you are, that it's just that sticks?

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I mean, from the potential side effects, I am reading all this stuff. I'm getting targeted by these drugs online. Maybe like me, you have questions too because you have people in your life who have started taking the medication. Or maybe you've been struggling with your weight for a long time and you've tried to get a handle on it. Nothing's worked.

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She's a leading expert in metabolic health, the founder of New York Endocrinology, and a clinical instructor at NYU Langone Hospital. She specializes in treating a wide range of endocrine disorders, including diabetes, thyroid disorders, osteoporosis, and PCOS. Her approach is all about prevention and sustainable solutions to chronic health challenges.

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Do you have any personal experience yourself or with a family member using this medication?

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What was it like after practicing obesity medicine to come to a point in your life where you're like, okay, I'm going to try the GLP-1 myself because I got pregnant in life. Now I'm perimenopause. All the things that I used to do are no longer working. Like, did you resist it for a while? What was it like for you to do that personally?

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Did you wrestle at all with any, like, of that feeling, like, I should be able to do this myself? Like, did you, even as a world-renowned doctor practicing obesity medicine, did you shame yourself at that moment before you went on the medication? No, I mean, because I...

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So if you've ever struggled with your weight or you have a friend or a loved one who has or is, this episode is a must listen and it is a fantastic free resource with a world-renowned medical expert that could change your life. Dr. Salas Whalen, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Well, I am so glad that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love that answer. And here's why. Because you don't have to shame yourself. And we can learn from you. that everything that you're sharing with us today is empowering you to go, this is my fault. And if I'm resonating with some of this stuff, I deserve to go get help and I deserve the help that's out there for me. Just like if you had diabetes or cancer, of course you would go get the treatment.

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This is a great moment for us to give our sponsors a chance to say a few words, to give you a chance to share this episode with people that you care about. And don't go anywhere because we have so much more to dig into with Dr. Solis Whalen when we return. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are learning from Dr. Salas Whalen.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So Dr. Salas Whalen, here's where I want to go next. What are the risks of taking these medications?

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Got it. So the drug's not causing you to lose muscle. The fact that you're eating less means you have less protein going into your body, which might have you lose muscle.

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If someone is taking one of the GLP-1s, how do you do that with your lifestyle and diet?

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What does that mean?

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Muscles?

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Muscles burn in calories.

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Wait a minute. Is that why taking a walk after you eat is like a really good thing to do?

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Wow. Okay. So you have to pay attention to muscles in general. We all do. But if you are going to take a GLP-1, really understanding the role that your muscles play in glucose and in your overall health is a critical piece of this.

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And I know that by the time we're done with this conversation today, that the person who's listening and the people that they care about are going to feel empowered and excited. At least that's what I feel. It's why I'm so excited that you're here. But I'd love to start by having you speak to the person who has hit play and is here with us right now.

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Okay, so doc, you just said... You got to be lifting weights and you've got to be eating more protein. Exactly. Is there a standard formula that you give to your patients?

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A 90 to 100? 120 pounds is awfully skinny. Like I thought you were going to be like 150 to 200 grams of protein.

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Got it. And then how often do you tell patients at a minimum they should be lifting weights? I would say with twice a week, they should feel happy with it.

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You know, I see this term all over social media, ozembic face. What is that? And why do people think that a GLP-1 changes somebody's face?

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What about some of the things that I've had at least friends report? I had one friend just talk about the constant indigestion. And I also had a friend say that he was warned about suicidal ideation. What can you tell us about those two side effects?

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What does that mean? That means don't go to a med spa?

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And just explain to them what might change about their life or their loved one's life if they truly take everything into account that you're about to teach us today and they put it to use in their life.

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And is there a kind of ramping up on this that also is something that should be done so that you're being medically supervised to see how your body and your brain tolerates this?

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Well, you know, as we were researching this conversation and digging into all kinds of information that we wanted to ask you, of course, the phone is listening. And next thing you know, I am getting served up on my phone nonstop ads for GLP-1 mail order.

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And it gave me a pause because of the friends and family that have gone to a medical doctor and who are seeing results or just starting this, even the ones that have had some symptoms. the doctors are all over it and they're monitoring it. Like, I didn't even know that you take a shot once a week. Like, I had no idea whether this was a pill or how it actually works.

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But it did give me a lot of concern to see that there's a lot of companies, whether they're licensed or not, out there marketing that you can mail order a GLP-1. What should you look for in terms of investigating a practitioner or provider if this is a tool that you want to look into for yourself or a family member?

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What's the difference between that and the FDA-approved prescribed one?

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Wait, there's actually a world where that is true?

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That makes a lot of sense. Dr. Salas-Whalen, what's your opinion of microdosing these medications for people who don't necessarily need to lose weight, but they just kind of want to? Okay.

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Wow. I mean, that's not what I thought you were going to say.

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That is an amazing thought to think that your life could, you could actually experience life and not be consumed by your weight, your body, your health, what you think people are thinking, what you think about, how you feel about your body, because there's just so much shame around how people think about the way that they look or their metabolism or their size. And so I think that's extraordinary.

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Oh, the nausea.

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Wow. So if I'm following correctly, if somebody is getting a compounded medication from somebody who's telling them to just microdose to back off on the symptoms, that's not actually the formula that was approved by the FDA?

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I have three people I'm sending this to right away who've been talking nonstop about the nausea and this and then the microdosing. And I didn't even realize that if you're microdosing, you're not getting the FDA approved drug. You're getting a compounded formula of it that is being prescribed by somebody else. That's not doing it the way the FDA said.

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Dr. Salas-Whalen, what's the most common misconception about these GLP-1 medications?

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So what's the truth that you want us to know about these medications?

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Mm-hmm.

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I mean, I think the thing that's very clear about this is that... a person who is struggling with their weight or struggling with obesity as a disease and a chronic condition, they're probably working harder on their health than the rest of us. Yes. Because they're thinking about it all the time. And I choose to believe that everybody wants to thrive.

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Like it is so demoralizing when you're doing the things people tell you that you need to do and it's not working. And if you've never struggled with this in your health, I bet you've struggled with it when you've tried to find a job.

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or when you've tried to save money, you follow the things and it's just not working, you don't understand why, and what you're here to say is there's four other factors outside your control from genetics to hormones to age to things in the environment that are impacting and screwing up your metabolism that are interfering with your body's ability to metabolize food and to help you help yourself.

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And so of course you'd feel discouraged. And so it makes so much sense. You know, one thing I'm curious about, Dr. Salas-Whalen, is how does a GLP-1 change how often you think about food?

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I've never taken the medication, but one of my family members is taking it, and that's exactly what they share. I just don't think about it. And that's revealing how much I used to think about it. And when I'm not thinking about it, I'm not mindlessly walking into the kitchen. I'm not having a second helping. I'm not like constantly in this loop. It's liberating.

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I know that this is a conversation that people are going to be sending to their family members and their loved ones all around the world. For anybody who's still thinking it's a human being's fault when you look at somebody who is struggling with obesity, like until we change the food system in this country,

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Until we give people like access to proper medication and health, until we give people access to places where you can live, where you have affordable food that comes from the ground, not a box and places to walk that are safe. Yeah.

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Like you can't blame human beings for the fact that the environment that we live in is screwing up your body's ability to process the fake food that is affordable to most people because of like how we've allowed industrialized farming and big industry to change the food that we eat.

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Without punishing yourself constantly. Like what I love most about everything that you've shared so far is just that it's not your fault. And really understanding that if you had cancer, if you had diabetes, you would seek treatment. Yes. And you would seek it for your 12-year-olds and up. You would seek it for yourself. And really embracing that, that, hey, what if something else were to blame?

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And what if there was something that could help my body actually process food and water and air and everything in a way that supports my health? What if it doesn't have to be so hard? What if it's not my fault? That's the most exciting thing about everything that you're sharing with us today.

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One of the things that I wanted to ask you is if you have somebody in your life that you're worried about, that you really would love to have them go see a medical doctor like you, a specialist in obesity medicine, or just somebody that is... treating people. How do you talk to somebody without making them feel wrong or blaming or assuming? You know what I mean?

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And so now you're curious about GLP-1s or perhaps you're already trying them out, but you still have some mixed feelings about it. Like, are they safe? How do they even work? Is this too good to be true? What about those side effects? Do I have to be on this for the rest of my life? So here's what I did.

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Because it's a very hard subject to talk about. And if you're somebody that doesn't have the same issue with your metabolism, then you don't understand. And so I just would love some advice from you about how to bring this up. to somebody who, as you've already shared with us, is thinking about it all the time?

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Well, I'm so glad that you're here because if you can help the person listening or who they're going to share this with to no longer be consumed by that and to have a completely different approach, something that's accessible and liberating, we're here for it.

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You know, I had that conversation with somebody in my family that I love. This was probably six months ago. And, you know, just saying, I'm really concerned about you. And I know how hard you work at this. And have you thought at all about, you know, the GLP-1 options that are out there? And...

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They were very defensive and then said that they had already talked to their primary care about it and they're so expensive that I can't afford it. And I didn't know what to say. And so do you have any advice for what you could say to somebody or what someone could do if they either have had an insurance claim denied or they can't afford the medication or that's what they're telling themselves?

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Like, is there... Something that you should do beyond a primary care doctor in order to facilitate trying to get this covered by insurance?

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Well, Dr. Salas-Whalen, if the person listening takes just one action today from absolutely everything that you have shared with us, what do you think the most important thing to do is? To share what you learned today.

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Well, the thing that impacted me the most is if I ever hear another person in my life complain about their weight or hate on themselves, I'm going to say, you know, it's not your fault. I want you to listen to this extraordinary world-renowned expert, because you may not believe me, but I sure as hell hope you are going to believe Dr. Solis Whalen. What are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So, Dr. Solis Whelan, why don't we start with having you just tell us a little bit about your background as a physician, because you have very unique training and expertise.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Incredible. Thank you for having me. And I also want to thank you for taking the time to listen and to learn about this life-changing topic and for also being generous with this information and sharing Dr. Salas Whalen's information with the people that you care about. There's no doubt in my mind that this could change the course of somebody's life.

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. And I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life and taking better care of your health and using the tools that are available to you and getting the support that you deserve is one of the best ways to do that for yourself.

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Alrighty, I'll see you in the next episode and I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. I'm waiting for my, this is the hardest part for me. I feel like a racehorse in a starting gate. I'm so excited to talk to you. Rocio. Perfect. Hey, okay. Don't worry, I can blow it once the cameras are rolling. It's okay. You wouldn't be the first one. This is so pretty.

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Thank you. It is really pretty. You did fantastic. How do you feel? Is there anything else that you wanted to say? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Incredible. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, you guys. Wow. She held it. Get over here. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

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This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Now, are those two connected? What is endocrinology and how does that lead to obesity medicine? They are very connected.

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I would love to have you talk to the person who's listening or watching us right now who may be overweight or who may be struggling with the disease of obesity. What do you want them to hear from you, Dr. Salas-Whalen?

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Why do you think it's important for us to really think about this issue of obesity being a disease or somebody who's struggling with their weight, kind of at the same level as we think about cancer or diabetes as a disease? Well, obesity kills.

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I reached out to a world renowned medical expert who is a triple board certified medical doctor with three specializations, obesity medicine, internal medicine, and endocrinology. And she's here today in our Boston studios to tell you everything that you and your loved ones need to know.

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You know, if I think about the way that the world has changed, especially when you see the statistics of the number of people that are either struggling with being overweight or who are living with a condition of obesity,

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One of the things that strikes me is that I think in the past, there's always been this, I don't know, like judgment as if the person that is struggling with one of those metabolism issues, that they're somehow to blame.

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And I know, at least when I think about members of my family that are struggling in this area of their life, that they feel a lot of shame around their inability to lose weight or to whatever. And I'm excited that you're here because I think that there's a huge shift in the way that we have been very ignorant around talking about the issue. And there's a shift medically speaking.

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And so I would love to have you talk about the way that as a medical doctor and as a world-renowned expert in obesity medicine, how you want us to actually even talk about or view this subject.

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Okay, hold on. I want to make sure that we do not skip over what you just said. Obesity is not a self-inflicted disease. I want to unpack that because I did not understand that until recently. So what does it even mean that obesity is a disease?

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So today, you and I are gonna get all the medical facts that you need to hear about the drug everyone's talking about. You're gonna learn the medical truth about your metabolism, the surprising reasons why you or your loved ones may be struggling with their weight, food cravings, and four surprising factors that you have no control over that cause weight gain.

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Wait, so the parents' preconception weight, so the weight that your parents were when you were conceived, genetically speaking, research has proven, has an impact on your genetics in terms of your weight.

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And I even want to go a layer deeper because I'm going to raise my hand and go right on the record and say that for most of my life, I was one of those people that had this topic completely wrong. I was the kind of person that did not understand anything that you were just explaining, and I just assumed it's lifestyle choices.

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And when you really just listen and absorb what you just said, lifestyle, genetics, hormone changes, aging, environmental factors, environmental factors... I mean, when you look at like the food industry and how it changes people's ability to process food and all the crap that's put into it, not having accessible, safe walking areas, working from home and being sedentary.

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And then now you're talking about, I don't, this word was too big for me to write down. It was like endro something destructible, but- But it was the things that are actually impacting your body's metabolism that are in the environment.

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And forever, we have just looked at somebody who struggled with being overweight or who struggled with the disease of obesity and we're like, oh, you're lazy or, oh, you're not doing enough. And so I can see how understanding these five factors can changes the game entirely.

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And the big thing that I'm hearing when you said we live in a world that is almost promoting, it's not even promoting, it's causing this disease. It's causing. Which means it's not your fault.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Okay, today you and I are going to talk about habits and I'm going to share the five things. I'm talking essential things, tips, tricks, shortcuts. You can call it whatever you want. These are the ways that I make habits stick. And I wanted to talk to you about this today for a particular reason.

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You have to figure out systems to have the cue or the trigger outside of you. And when you start to figure out how to get the cue, the thing that signals the new behavior outside of you, get it out of your any head and get it out into the world. When you start to do that, that's the secret to making behavior stick. And what you're going to learn

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is going to blow your mind because I know that when you're trying to change any your head, you're keeping it all in your head and you're not using systems outside of you, you are frustrated like Anne is.

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The same reason why every any organizer is frustrated because you are trying to stay consistent in your head and you are not using simple systems and simple physical cues to keep you organized and to keep these changes top of mind. That's it. And you are you are managing so much and you listening to me. You don't give yourself enough credit for how much you're juggling in your own mind.

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Stop keeping behavior change in your own mind. And let's get it out of your head because I want you to know something. You're not the problem. You have everything within you. You're not the problem. You are capable of learning new habits. You are capable of making amazing things happen. You're not the problem. The problem is that you're attacking this as an any organizer.

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You are planning to do this all in your head. And all you need is Audi systems that keep these new changes front and center in front of you. That's how you stay consistent. Stop relying on willpower. Stop relying on having to remember what you need to do. Absolutely not.

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There is no way you are going to achieve your goals or stay consistent or make all those amazing changes that you want to make that you deserve to have happen unless you start to implement systems in your life. And that's what we're going to do next. We're going to take a short break.

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We're going to hear a short word from our sponsors, and then I'm going to come right back, and I'm going to teach you right now the five simple systems that I am using right now.

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I have researched these because I'll be damned if I do not complete the 75 hard challenge, especially since I'm doing it with my husband, who's doing it now for the third time, and he's leading a group of people from around the world through it. So I am getting out of my head, and I am getting into my systems, and so are you, and I'm going to explain them. in just a second. Welcome back.

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So we're talking about the five simple systems that are going to help you make new behavior change stick. Okay. So system number one, and this is the Mac daddy of Audi organizing. Ready? Make it visible. And by make it visible, I mean put it in front of your freaking face, okay? Because here's the cool thing.

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You're gonna not only wanna bookmark this and listen to it two or three times, but you're gonna wanna come back to this over and over and over again because this is gold, pure gold. This is the shortcut to making new habits stick. But before I jump in, I also wanted to just take a beat and welcome you, if you're brand new to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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Instead of rearranging your mind and your mental to-do list, rearrange your house and your environment to support you in remembering your goals and achieving them. your habits, okay? That's how you make this stick. You make it visible. You make it obvious. So let me give you a list of some of the things that I've done.

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So first, I have the list of all of the things that I need to accomplish in this challenge taped to my mirror above my bathroom sink. Why is it there? Well, because I want to make it visible and obvious. It's the first thing that I see in the morning and it's the last thing that I see at night. Here's another example of a way to make the habit or the goal visible.

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My water bottle and the nonfiction book that I'm reading, I put that by the coffee maker every single night. It is sitting there in the morning. Why? Because I can't miss it. I mean, it's, it's obvious. I walk in, I go to make my coffee. Boom. There it is. It's like, Hey bitch, don't forget to drink the water. Hey, read that book. Don't pick up the phone.

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Like, do you see how much easier I made that on myself? Instead of having to go in my head and be like doing mental gymnastics with my, don't pick up the phone. You remember, you got to read the book. I don't want to read the book. I do it. It's like sitting right there out of me. I can't ignore it. Here's another way to make things visible. to support yourself.

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We have this little beverage fridge, right? And normally it's got a ton of beer and wine in it. You know what's in it right now? Not beer and wine. It's now stocked with kombucha, non-alcoholic beer and awesome non-alcoholic spirits and all kinds of spindricks and seltzers and Topo Chico's and all the kind of non-alcoholic stuff that I love to drink. Why?

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Because then when I feel a little craving and I go to open up the little beverage fridge because I'm going to sneak because I'm sneaky and I'm a rebel and I only made it a week through the challenge last time. So God knows I'm going to want to sneak it sometime. What do I have? The stuff that I don't want to drink. But the thing that I need to drink is right there. It's visible.

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Here's another way that I make the habit visible. Every night before I go to bed, I lay out my exercise clothes on the floor. It is a giant middle finger to myself because you want to know what? When I wake up in the morning, do I want to work out? Do I want to have to work out outside? Hell no. It's 37 degrees and raining in Vermont right now. Who in their right mind wants to go outside?

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But when I wake up, it's visible. It's outside of my head. It's in my face. It is reminding me, oh, there's that promise that you regret that you made, Mel. And then I have to remind me of my why as I'm pulling on my tights. The question is, why does this work? Well, let's turn to research from Harvard Business School.

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Because this research from Harvard Business School shows that when we make decisions for our future selves, we make better decisions. So let me unpack this for you, okay? When you wake up in the morning and you got all your habits and goals in your head, it's the old you. And you got a decision to make in the morning, right? Do I feel like exercising? Do I even remember I need to exercise?

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It's sleeting, horizontal, disgusting, 37 degree rain outside. Do I feel like exercising? If you are in your head making a decision in real time, you are likely going to make a bad decision, right? I don't want to exercise, so I'm not going to. I'll do it later.

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This is one of those episodes that I know you're going to share with everybody that you care about. And so if somebody that loves you sent you this... I want to say thank you. Thank you for taking the time and finding the time to hit play and to listen to something that is going to set you up to win this year. Thank you for being interested in your own improvement.

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But when you make decisions for your future self, and that's what you're doing when you literally take the time to put a Post-it note on a mirror. That's what you're doing when you take the time to pull all of the booze out of the fridge and stock it instead with better choices. That's what I'm doing when I put the clothes on the floor. I am making a decision as my future self.

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I am saying I know Mel Robbins well enough to know at some point this woman is going to have no willpower. She is going to be weak. She is going to be desperate. She is going to be emotional. And so I need to make a decision for the future Mel Robbins, the Mel Robbins that wants to change.

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And when you think from that point of view and you set yourself up for success by making these things visible, you freaking win. Because according to Harvard Business School, you make better decisions when you think about who is the future you and what would that person do. So the night before, Plan out as many decisions as you can.

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Because the other thing that you can do, and that means put the water bottle by the coffee maker, set the journal out where you're going to see it, lay out the clothes, put the phone in a different room so that it's not there to look at first thing in the morning. These are things that you can do as the future you. What would the person who already lives this lifestyle be doing?

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Act like that version of you. And when you set yourself up and make all this stuff visual, here's the other cool thing that happens. You reduce what's called decision fatigue the very next day. And you're taking advantage of this planning for your future self. And you know what? There's a third benefit. I love this. It lowers activation energy.

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Activation energy is the force that you need to apply to doing something. So I'll go back to the example. It is so much easier for me to get going when my exercise tights are on the floor next to my bed. Duh. It is so much easier for me to get my water consumption done, to drink that big first thing of water, if it's sitting out waiting for me. Duh. Because it takes a lot more energy, right?

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A lot more force, a lot more fuel for me to not only haul my ass out of bed, but to remember I need to put on exercise tights and to pull open the drawer and to figure out which pair to wear and then to pull them on and then to look at the jog bras and then to decide if I need a sweatshirt or I need a this. I've had to burn through fuel just to figure out what freaking outfit to put on.

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By making decisions for my future self and making it visible, boom shakalaka, people, this is easy. I am setting myself up for success. Here's another powerful way to make things visible. Use the alarm on your phone. Seriously, this is a genius hack. Put the alarm on your phone to use to help you be your future self. It's like a reminder from the future, okay? Cake's done. Get up. Go check on it.

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No, seriously. So every single smartphone has the ability to set an alarm. And on the alarm, when you go to set the time, there's a label. Right now it says alarm. You can literally change the label to help you remember anything. And here's what's super cool about a simple alarm in your phone.

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Research has found that twice as many people who received quit smoking messages quit smoking over a six month period.

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Thank you for wanting to learn shortcuts and things that you can do in order to make new habits stick because that's what we're going to be talking about. So the fact that you chose to listen to this tells me something about you. It tells me you're my kind of person because you're looking to learn and you're interested in improving yourself. And I just think that's super cool.

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So these little systems like setting an alarm in your phone, whether you're reminding yourself to take the vitamins that you want to be taking, or you're reminding yourself to get outside for the run, or you're reminding yourself to spend 30 minutes working on a project that you wanted to get done. They're going to make you, based on the research, twice as successful, twice more likely.

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Simple systems work because your life is complicated enough. And if you can put that post-it note up, you are setting yourself up for success. I'm telling you, it's true. And that leads me to system number two. And this is the one that Mel Robbins has to use even more than like stick it in your face. And this is the opposite. Remove the temptation from your site.

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Get it out of here, out of sight, out of mind. I wish that were true because a lot of times you're gonna find that even when you say, okay, that's it, I'm not gonna eat gluten, I'm not gonna eat sugar, I'm not gonna eat dairy, still gonna be on your mind, which is why it needs to be out of sight.

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So the things that you don't want to do, the bad habits that you have, the little addictions like your phone, let's make it harder for you to just slip into those things, okay? So let me give you some examples. If you don't want to drink, put the alcohol away. Get it off the countertop. Get it in a cupboard. Better yet, put it in the basement.

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If you need to get up early or if you want more sleep, here's what you need to do. Get your phone out of the bedroom. This one simple system, remove the phone from your bedroom, will change your life because it won't be there. You won't look at it in the middle of the night. You won't look at it as you're laying in bed. Get it out of your bedroom. You wanna know why? You can't be trusted.

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Neither can I. And I'm gonna give you a really harsh example of this. Let's say the person you love the most has a really bad addiction. Let's just put it out there. They're addicted to cocaine. You love them. They're trying. They're recovering. They're doing great. Would you ever put an eight ball on the bedside table? Of course not. You are more addicted to your phone

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than people who are addicted to cocaine. I'm not kidding about this. The research is very clear. And so anything that you have a problem with, regulating yourself with. Get it out of your sight. It's an addiction. I'm dead serious about this because I am in that category when it comes to the phone. I know this intellectually.

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In my head, I know that I shouldn't be looking at my phone, which is why I got to get it out of my bedroom so that I don't look at it. You only have to have that temptation a tiny bit more inconvenient to have this system work. They did this really interesting study at Google where they used to keep M&Ms in open bowls at Google. And they were curious in the Google offices.

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What if we just like switched up the system here? And instead of having M&Ms in open bowls, what if we put them in bowls that had lids on them? The candies are still there. You want to know what happened? Employees ate 3 million less M&Ms over the course of a year. Why? Because out of sight, out of mind. Making it just a tiny bit more inconvenient to get the candy had people often pass on it.

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And the other thing that I think is really cool in life is the more that I can save you the headaches and the heartaches that I've caused myself because I didn't know what I was doing. I was Miss, let's set some goals. Let's go for it for a week and then let's get tired and blow it off and feel like a loser. Well, it took me a long time to realize that habits are simply a skill you can learn.

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And the candy wasn't so tempting because they couldn't see it. And this also proves what you've already learned. Decision fatigue is a real thing. Simply having to consider lifting off the lid before you reach the M&M's created enough friction for people, enough of a pause that it made them not do it.

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Just like you having to pull open the drawer and pick out your exercise tights often has you walk right past that drawer and not do it at all. So if you want to do it, stick it in front of your face. If you don't, get it out of your sight. Now let's go to another question. And this one comes from Jack.

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Jack, great question. And it brings me to system number three. And I got to tell you to brace yourself because this is going to sound redonkulously obvious. But the only way to know that you're on track is to track. Period. That's system number three. You have to track your progress. Again, let's go back to any organization versus Audi organization.

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You are no longer allowed to track your progress casually in your mind. You need... to get it outside your mind, which means you need a system for tracking progress. And so back to 75 Hard, I'm going to share with you my daughter's system, which I've stolen. What she did is she created this amazing grid on the wall using Post-it notes. And so for every single day of the 75 days, she wrote

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One through 75 and then created this giant square grid on the wall. And every single evening when she finishes the day, she pulls a post-it note off. And pulling that post-it note off, that is like, that's like a rip. That's like a yeah. That gives you the dopamine. That is like a box checked. If you are a to-do list, I love my boxes checked. I love my things.

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You will love checking boxes and keeping track. You have to make these systems work for you. An app may be the best damn thing that's ever happened to you. For me, when it comes to tracking myself, it's got to be paper. I got to see it. somewhere like right in front of my face, which is why I use my bathroom mirror.

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I will also use the wall in front of my computer or the refrigerator, places that I know that I'm going to bump into it. For you, you may be fine doing it on your phone, on a computer, but that system doesn't work for me. And so that's the other thing. Kind of be flexible with this. Try things out. See what feels right for you. But tracking your progress, this is not negotiable.

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Get it out of your head. Because there is foundational research here. This is about streaks and progress and not breaking the chain of progress. And so in apps and social media apps, they've gamified this natural tendency in psychology. And so you can do the same. Create a system that's fun for tracking yourself and

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And remember what I said at the very beginning, Zoe, my cake eaters, my sugar cutter outers, my people who keep making promises that they don't know why they're doing it. Get clear about your why. And remember, if you're doing a grid and you have a day off, first of all, you will know that it's a day off. shake it off and try to get back on track tomorrow. Okay.

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You're designed to learn new behavior. Your mind and your body, they're actually wired to learn patterns. And you can use this to your advantage. And so today, I am going to give you everything that I've learned the hard way to come up with five essential strategies that you can use all day long anytime you wanna lock in a new habit.

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We don't really want to see two or three days off in a row, but if you're tracking your progress, this is the other magic of tracking it outside your mind. You see it and you're empowered to get back on track the next day. So you can check that box. Love it. And look, I think it's obvious, but also there's research that shows that the more often that you track your progress,

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the greater the likelihood that you're going to succeed. And the chances of your success are even more likely if you report your progress publicly or you physically record it. So this is what I'm talking about. We got two more systems to cover, but first I have to take a quick break. We got to monitor our sponsors, listen in, let's hear what they have to say.

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And then when we come back, we're talking system number four and system number five. I'll see you in a minute. All right, welcome back. So happy you're here. See, I'm monitoring your progress. You came back. Check. So we've talked about the first three Audi systems. Make it visible, like right in front of your face. Get it out of your head, put it in front of your face.

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Number two, whatever you're not supposed to do, let's just remove all temptation. You and I are friends. We know we're kind of rebels. We know we can't be trusted until we can be trusted. So let's just get it out of here. Number three, monitor your progress, okay? We are serious about change around here, which means you got to get it out of your head.

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Get it on paper, get it in an app, and get public about it, okay? Super important about this. Let's talk about system number four. This is another way to get out of your head, okay? Get it out of your mind. Create a plan. I'm going to say that again, create a plan. We are not talking kindergarten habit here, people. We are talking college level PhD habit sticking systems.

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We're not screwing around. If you want to freestyle in your mind, you are not going to be successful. This is not jazz. We're not like just going off the rails here. We are following the music score to the T. This comes from studies, okay? You know I'm throwing the science at you because a lot of times, you know, when the stuff is common sense, yeah, I know I need to plan, Mel.

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Yeah, well, then why aren't you doing it? So let me tell you the research. At UT Austin, They found you're going to be more likely to succeed at behavior change if you make specific plans to implement it. Now, I don't mean to insult your intelligence because I think this is obvious. But when you unpack an example of this, it becomes very obvious why you're failing if you fail to plan.

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So let's go back to 75 hard and my promise and commitment. to complete two workouts every single day, one of which has to be outside. It is critical that I plan ahead. Critical, because I travel for work. And so I'm looking at flights right now for a 16-day business trip at the end of January. And as I'm looking at flights, you know what I'm thinking?

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How the hell am I going to get an outside workout and an indoor workout in? And I got to still fly from San Diego back to Boston. Or here's another way that I'm planning. Tomorrow in Southern Vermont, we're going to have four inches of snow on the ground. And...

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when am I going to work out and what am I going to wear and do I need the grippy things on my feet because the driveway is like a luge run right now and what time of day am I going to like am I going to get this done before four o'clock which is when uh winter comes and the death eaters are here and it's dark as hell and based on my schedule like I gotta plan this stuff because you know what if I don't and I just start my day here's what's going to happen

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And once you learn these five things, holy cow, you're gonna be unstoppable. You can set yourself up for success You can master the skill of learning new patterns. You can set your environment up to support you in remembering. You don't have to manage this in your head. You don't have to wait for willpower. You don't have to be superhuman.

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I am literally going to go, oh, I'll do it later. And then it'll be eight o'clock at night. I got to tell you a quick story about my husband, Chris, because this is when it occurred to me that I might be married to either a robot or to the world's most disciplined person on the planet. So Chris started 75 Hard for the third time well over a month ago. And so it was December 21st.

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And we had woken up in New York because we go there every year during the holidays to see a show with the kids, just one of our traditions. And Chris exercised, did his first workout in the hotel gym in New York. We then drove to Connecticut. We had lunch with his brother. And then we drove up to Boston where we were going to stay with his oldest brother and we were going to go to a holiday party.

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Now, as we're driving to Boston, the weather gets supremely crappy and we are driving in horizontal rain. You can barely see. It is foggy as hell. And I'm looking at the time and I'm thinking, we are going to arrive 30 minutes after this big party has started. This party with all of our old friends where we used to live in Boston. I was so excited to go to this party.

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And I'm thinking in my mind, Chris hasn't gotten his outdoor workout yet. Could he maybe just stick his head out the window and like do some face exercises? You know, do something like could I like what are we going to like? I want to go to the party. I'll tell you what, this is impressive. The man said. I have to get this done. I'm like, but you're it is raining horizontal outside. It is dark.

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You don't know the neighborhood we're going to. There are no street. He's like, I don't care. I'm doing it. He literally, we pulled outside, we decided to go to his oldest brother's house because he was getting this, he said he would do this, but he was not going to let bad planning break a promise that he had made to himself. This is what integrity looks like.

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So we go, not to the party, but we go to his brother's house and I sat inside because there was no way I was going to go to that party without him while I knew he was walking in the pouring horizontal rain and And he borrowed a pair of sweatpants from his brother, which were cotton, by the way. We're not talking performance gear here. And just this big old coat.

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Number one, did you know that most people, when they start to try to lock in a new habit, by day 19, they quit? That's why I'm releasing this episode today, because you're about ready to quit on something new that you've started. And also, I've noticed y'all are slamming the inbox at MelRobbins.com with questions about habits. So we're going to just cut through the noise.

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And the man left and walked for 45 minutes at 7.30 at night in the horizontal 40-degree rain. And then he came in, toweled off, changed his clothes, and we drove to the party. In 26 years of being married to Christopher Robbins, I have never been more attracted to the man than I was in that moment. There is nothing sexier than a person who keeps their word no matter what.

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You can use these five things and set up a system to help you win. And that's what we're going to do today. You know, I believe that you are one decision away from a different life because when you make a decision to change something, It is like tipping a domino in an entirely new direction. The decision begins the change. But how do you actually make the change stick? That's where habits come in.

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And the way that you make it easier to keep your word is by planning ahead. Planning ahead is about looking at the week ahead. And if you're going to eat healthy, figure out what you're cooking. for the week, every night, and then go to the grocery store. And if you're not going to be eating dairy or gluten like I am, this is new for me. I don't normally cook without dairy or gluten.

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And so this is requiring a lot of planning so that I don't just open up the fridge and hope that somehow this has magically happened that I'm going to be successful. And making a plan is a piece that's super obvious, but it's completely overlooked. You're thinking about what you need to do. Again, you're an innie organizer. Failing to plan is planning to fail. So let's go back to Zoe. Hi, Zoe.

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Slice a cake, four hours in, don't make yourself wrong. You know what went wrong there? Either you really don't want to give up sugar or you just failed to plan. So if you're planning on cutting out sugar, what's your plan when you go to a party or a restaurant and cake is being served?

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This is what's called if-then planning, and it's research by Heidi Halverson, who wrote about this in the Columbia University Researcher. And if-then planning is a way to keep yourself on task by creating a backup plan if your current plan doesn't work. And here's what's really cool about if-then planning.

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If-then planning boosts your ability to stick to goals, and they studied this with exercise, from 39% success to 91% success. If it rains, then I'll do this. If I miss my flight, then I'll do that. If I'm going to a party and I've committed to dry January, then I'm just going to bring a non-alcoholic beverage.

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If a friend invites me over for dinner, then I'm going to email or text them back and say, I'd love to, but I'm trying to cut out gluten and I don't want to be a pain in the ass and have you have to fuss about me. So can I bring something that's gluten-free to supplement what you're already making?

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Because let's face it, if you don't plan ahead, if you don't make an if-then plan, you feel embarrassed. And then you either push your food around your plate like some weirdo or... You eat and you break the promise to yourself. So if I don't get exercise done tonight, then I'm not gonna binge watch TV tonight. I'm gonna get my exercise done instead.

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If you didn't give yourself enough time to get that side project done this morning, then you're gonna finish it after you put the kids to bed. Bada bing, bada boom. Pretty cool, right? All right, now let's get to system number five. Do it in the morning. There you go. Do it in the morning. It's that simple. Being an early riser is like a first domino that falls.

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And once that domino falls, you've gotten yourself out of bed an hour, a half an hour earlier. All these other dominoes fall in your life. And I get it. It's hard to do. And one huge way that's going to make a big difference, and you hear me talk about this all the time, and it's because this is one of these domino habits. You do this and it triggers a whole like of change.

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get your phone out of your bedroom, period. It's a huge way to hack this. And you don't want to know another way to get up early? Get a puppy because they'll wake you up. They need to be let out. And I've learned this one, you get a puppy and you'll be a morning person.

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Another one, marry somebody, date somebody, sleep with somebody who gets out of bed early, live with somebody who has a great morning routine. And look, it's not just common sense, it's science. Number one, your willpower is the highest in the morning. Number two, your speed of processing, highest in the morning. Your ability to focus, highest in the morning for the first four hours of the day.

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And by the way, it's likely to be the time of day that you have to yourself the time that you can actually control before other people, little people, furry people, and all the commitments at work start taking up your attention and your time. And yeah, I get it. You've got toddlers.

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Well, that means if you're serious about this, you are going to have to get up a half an hour earlier before they get up, which means you're going to have to go to bed a half an hour earlier. But aren't these new habits and a better lifestyle and feeling in control of your life? Isn't that worth it? That's your why. Because if you can get an extra hour every morning, you can get everything done.

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And I really want to bottom line the word habits because people love to throw the word habits around because you sound super smart, right? But let's be honest with each other. You want to know what a habit is? It's a pattern. That's it. Have you ever heard that phrase, you are what you repeatedly do? Let's say it again. You are what you repeatedly do.

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You can do all the little things that the future you put in place for you. You can read the post-it note on the mirror. You can drink the bottle of water that you set out. You can write in your journal that you put in place on the table in the kitchen. You can... Pull on those exercise tights that you laid out. You can spend an hour... getting things done.

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That brings me to what I said to you at the very beginning. And it's the biggest possible reason why truly mastering this skill of learning new patterns and making habits stick and using the five tools that I just shared with you that help me learn new patterns and help me make it easier and help me make things stick is that you are what you repeatedly do. I'm going to say that again.

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You are what you repeatedly do. And the opportunity here isn't just to achieve your goals. It's to actually change who you become. If you've always wanted to be the kind of person who gets up early and has a beautiful morning routine, then patterns help you become that person. If you've always wanted to be a person who was financially free, then you develop patterns around paying off debt.

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And you develop patterns around how you spend money and how you invest it and what you put it in. And those patterns that you repeatedly do then lead you to the type of person you want to become. Do you see how empowering this is? that it's so much bigger than this thing you should be doing. It's this enormous opportunity for you to experience yourself in a life in a whole new way.

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And that's why I also believe the statement that I said at the very beginning, which is you are one decision away from a different life, a different you. And I'm inviting you right now to imagine a world where you are healthier, you are more energized, you do have more money, And what I'm really thrilled about is that you took the time to listen to this because this is something you can master.

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And it's just awesome what's possible. And so just follow these five steps. They're so simple. You now understand the mechanics, right? You understand it's just a pattern. Let's all just drop the fancy word of habit. It's just a pattern we're learning. But how do you make the pattern stick? You make it visible, right? Yeah. You get distractions and temptations.

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Get it out of your face because if it's out of your face, it'll be out of your mind. You do want to monitor your progress. That's a really important thing because then you don't get discouraged. Create a plan. And look, I know it's like, oh my God, is that the dumbest advice you've ever heard? Of course it is, but it works. And I just think about myself.

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Do you know the weeks that I make the pattern stick with exercise? It's when I make a plan Sunday night. Those five things, that's all you have to do. And then you are well on your way. That's it. That's it. And the most important thing is that this is about who you want to become.

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And so as you think about the new patterns for your life this year and in this chapter of your life, I really want you to think about who you want to become. This is an invitation for you because it is possible for you to change. It is possible for you to become a better version of yourself. It is possible for you to achieve amazing things. All you need is to figure out the patterns that

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The word repeatedly is the most important word there because whatever patterns you have in your life right now, that's who you are. And I want to use the word patterns right now because again, I find that, you know, the big words like habits, it makes you sound really smart, but let's just dumb it down so we can embrace what we're talking about.

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that lead you to becoming that person. And you are halfway there, I promise you. And you wanna know what else? Your friend Mel Robbins. I'm gonna be here every single step of the way, cheering you on. I'm gonna be breaking patterns, making patterns, interrupting patterns. I'm gonna be reminding you of the power that you have. And that means you're not doing it alone. Alrighty.

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So thank you for taking a moment to share this with somebody that you care about. Thank the person that shared this with you, because that's really cool that they did that for you. And I also want to make sure to tell you that I love you. I do. I love you. Love is just when you have somebody else in mind. And when you admire something about them, that's all that love is.

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Making a cup of coffee for somebody is loving them. And I love you for actually taking time to learn something that can make you a better person. I love you for the fact that you share this with people that you care about. I love that about you. And I also wanted to tell you that I believe in you and your ability to create a better life. And now you know the secret to a better life.

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It's actually creating patterns. that align with the type of person you want to become. So go do it. And I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. As soon as you hit play, I'll see you there. Great. Okay, great. I am so... Okay, here we go. There's the welcome back. And then the... Oh yeah, because I was like at the garage. Okay. Oh my God. What the fuck is going on? Let them... Let them.

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And we're going to kick this whole thing off with a question from your fellow podcast fan. And we're going to kick this off with a question from one of your fellow Mel Robbins podcast listeners. Oh, my God. And look, I've gotten so long winded now on patterns and habits that I realize I got to tell you the systems. And that's what we are going to do next. Oh, wait. Oh, OK. One more.

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Here's what's the next one? OK, OK. Okay, great. Then it's literally like, bravo, you guys. All right. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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All we're talking about when it comes to making new habits stick is how do I make a pattern automatic? Maybe you want to make it a habit to floss your teeth every night. Maybe you want to make it a habit to get up and exercise. Maybe you want to make it a habit to save more money or become better at meditation or anything at all that you want to be a pattern.

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There is a science and a system for how you can make patterns stick. And here's one of the fundamental things that I'm going to probably talk about over and over with you again today, which is the nature of human behavior is this. You are wired to learn patterns. And that's both a good thing and kind of a bad thing. Because here's the thing about patterns, which are basically habits.

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Patterns are designed to repeat. And so technically speaking, you can't just break a pattern. You have to interrupt it. And here comes the big part. Replace it with something new. And one other thing I want you to really keep in mind is this. You already have patterns in your life. You do. You know, if you wake up every day and you hit the snooze button five times, that's a pattern.

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That's what you repeatedly do. And what you repeatedly do becomes who you are. And so one of the first things I want you to think about as we jump into this is I want you to think about who do you want to become? What kind of person do you want to be?

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Because when you start to marry your vision for the kind of person that you want to be with the new patterns that you want to learn, what's really cool is that since you are what you repeatedly do, the new habits start to become part of your identity. For example, let's just go back to the snooze alarm. I was a massive snoozer my whole life.

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My first decision every morning was to procrastinate by hitting the snooze button. That was a habit. It was a pattern. I repeatedly did it. And that meant I was the kind of person that couldn't get out of bed. I was the kind of person that was hitting the snooze alarm. And one thing that's helped me a lot is thinking about, well, Mel, what kind of person do you wanna be?

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I don't wanna be the kind of person that starts the day by procrastinating and bed rotting and spending an hour looking at social media. I wanna be the kind of person that gets out of bed and gets going and has a rock solid morning routine, which by the way, just another pattern, just another habit.

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We're going to drop all the BS, and you and I are going to get the facts straight about habits. Number one, you need them. Number two, you can master them. Number three, in order to master them, you need my tips and tricks. And so I am going to teach you the five essential things that you need in order to make your new habits stick. Let's do this.

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But when you start to also think about the fact that the patterns and habits that you wanna make stick, they're not really about what you should be doing. They're much bigger. They're about who you want to become. now they become even more interesting and important. Because it's one thing to say to yourself, I should stop hitting the snooze button. I should stop bed rotting.

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I should stop doing all that. You're never going to develop a positive pattern that way. I want you to think, I want to become the kind of person that takes care of themselves. I want to become the kind of person that prioritizes their time. I want to become the kind of person that is stronger than my mood in the moment, that I align my action with the things I want to do. That's a pattern by

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the way that you can learn to be able to take action regardless of how you feel. And so I'm so excited about this for you because this is the gateway to a whole new experience of life. And it doesn't have to be hard. You just need these five things based on the research that I've learned the hard way.

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They're going to help you identify the patterns that make you proud of the person that you're becoming and that align with the vision that you have for your life. and the simple things that make it easy to repeat the patterns because that's all that this is. Let's just dumb it down. You're capable. I'm capable.

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Let's remove all the drama and let's remove all the fancy academic stuff and let's just learn how to do this, okay? Great. Now, one more thing. Here's how this is going to go down. You know, I was thinking about the fact that I got to talk about habits because you guys are slamming the inbox. It's the time of year everybody wants to talk about habits. I love it. I love it. I love it.

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Let's learn some new patterns. And the truth is there's no new information here. And I sat down to record an episode for you and I'm like, wait a minute, I already have this extraordinary conversation that I recorded like a year ago and it's all the same stuff I would say to you now.

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So instead of having this pattern in my life where I keep reinventing the wheel, why don't I just create a new pattern and I set up the most important conversation you could listen to right now? Because even if you heard me share this with you over a year ago, these five things that I'm gonna teach you, you're a different person right now. You have a different vision for who you wanna be.

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You need this reminder. And so even if you start to listen, you're like, I think I've heard Mel talk about this. Darn straight you have, because the advice that works is the advice that works. And these five things are the five things I need to remind myself of, I need to remind you of, because this is what will make your habits stick. And so here's how this is gonna roll.

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I have got your fellow listeners from the Mel Robbins podcast lined up. How about we get this party on patterns and habits started, okay? Let's kick it off with a question from a listener named Eric.

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Eric, I'm so glad you asked because you know what? I don't want that new treadmill that you just invested in to become the most expensive coat hanger in your house. And the truth is, there are simple, fun, and easy ways that will help you stick with the new habits that you're trying to create. And look, I want to say something right up front. I'm not exactly the expert in this.

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I'm applying the same tools that you're going to learn in this episode. I'll tell you a quick story because I'm in the same boat as you. I signed up this year to do this 75-day mental toughness challenge that is requiring me to do a bunch of brand new behaviors every single day. So I am in the habit formation soup with everybody. And I have a confession to make.

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This is the second attempt that I'm making at completing this 75-day challenge because I failed last time I did it. I signed up last year and this challenge was so hard I bailed within a week. So all the stuff I'm about to share with you are the things that I'm using that I've seen other people use so that I don't fail at it this time. And here is what the challenge says I have to do for 75 days.

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no alcohol. I have to eat a healthy diet, which for me, I've decided I'm going to just eat a normal diet because I'm a healthy eater, but I'm not going to have any gluten or dairy for 75 days. I got to work out twice a day, and one of those workouts has to be outside. I have to drink a gallon of water.

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I have to take a progress photo every day, and I have to read 10 pages of nonfiction every single day. If you miss... any one of those things that I just listed, you have to go back to day one, period. But the rules of this challenge are at odds with what the science around habits actually says. See, habit research says that if you miss a day, you don't default back to day zero.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here because I have so much to teach you and to share with you. This is going to be one of those conversations where you get to benefit from all the mistakes that I've made. Because boy, oh boy, when it comes to changing behavior, I am one stubborn, lazy, lack in willpower kind of person.

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you don't lose progress by missing a day. And so I want to be very clear upfront that you can still be successful in making new habits stick. You can still be successful in seeing a change through if you miss a day or two days or a week. And I know you're concerned about this because I'm getting a lot of questions about, well, what do I do if I fall off like this one from Zoe?

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Oh, Zoe, we love you. So for Zoe and every one of you listening, We're not robots, we're human beings. And habit research says that screwing up does not impact your progress or your ability to make habits stick. In life, unlike this challenge 75 hard that I'm doing, if you miss a day, All you do is miss a day and then move forward. That's it.

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And research shows the new neuropathways that you create, Zoe, once you start the new habit of trying to remove sugar from your diet, they're still there. And we know this based on research from Dr. Philip Alali at the University College of London. And there's something else. It's called the what the hell effect. Science says you're not behind.

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The problem is, is that in our mindset, we have this quote, what the hell effect. You think, oh, one mistake. I ate the cake. What the hell? I guess I'm screwed. I better not do that. And this comes from Duke researcher Dan Eierle. He writes a lot about this. And you know what's really funny, Zoe, is that even in Dan's writing and research, he You want to hear what he's quoting?

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Quote, I just had one slice of cake when my goal was no sugar. So what the hell? I'll have a couple more. I swear to God. That's the example that he used, Zoe, when he was researching the what the hell effect. And I'm raising this.

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Before I teach you the five simple systems that you can use to make habits stick, because I want you guys to go into these five simple systems knowing that if you screw up one day, you go a couple days, you go a week, you can still get right back on track, okay? I need you to think that failing is not a big deal. You can recover, period. So Zoe, once you eat that piece of cake,

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Just appreciate how delicious it was. Savor the moment and then get up, walk around the house, shake it off so that you don't eat another slice. Recognize, oh, here's that what the hell effect. I'm not going to fall for it. And then get right back to your promise. Cut yourself some slack and keep going. That's all you need to do, Zoe. And this brings me to the fun part. All right.

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I got these new habits. Please, Mel, give me the five hacks. How the hell do I make these new habits stick? How do I create structure, discipline, and order in my life? Well, it's very simple. You're going to use simple hacks. That's all you're going to do. You can call them systems. You can call them triggers. You can call them cues. You can call them structure.

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You can call them whatever you want to be. My friend Amy, who you have heard on this podcast, has this term that I laugh about so much because it makes me think of belly buttons. But she basically says there are two kinds of people in this world. There are people that are innie organizers, meaning you manage everything innie your head, right? You're thinking about it all the time.

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I have had to figure out how to hack my way through tips and tricks. to changing. And we're gonna be talking about habits today. And I'm gonna share with you the five essential secrets and tools. You can call these things whatever the heck you want. They just work. And I'm gonna avalanche you with takeaways today. So get ready.

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That's not how you're going to be successful when it comes to change. You have to be an outie organizer. That's what you have to be when it comes to habits. Why? There are only three parts to a habit based on all of the research and habits. Science has never changed. The cue, the behavior pattern, and the trigger. That's it.

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4 Signs of Emotionally Immature Parents & How to Heal

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. If you've spent your entire life feeling like something was off in your relationship with your parents, but you could never quite put your finger on it, you need to hear me. You were right.

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But more importantly, after our conversation today, you're going to know exactly what to do about it. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you are here. I am fired up about our conversation. I cannot wait to dig into this with you. It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

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So what I would love to do is have you describe for a person who has never even considered or given themselves permission to look openly at their own childhood or their own parenting through the lens of emotional immaturity.

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And if you, Dr. Gibson, if you could explain the traits associated with emotional immaturity so that we can just highlight it, whether it is your parent or you're starting to have the courage to look at your own behavior, what is the behavior that you see that are the hallmarks of emotional immaturity in a parent in particular?

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You have so many helpful quizzes in the book, and I want to read some of them because I think that these questions, if you're somebody who's never considered this in yourself or in your parent or in your own experience, it's liberating. To have somebody say, oh, no, no, no, this is not behavior to excuse away.

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I realize you lived with it your entire childhood and your entire adult life with your parents. But this is not what you are supposed to get. You're supposed to be seen and you're supposed to feel safe and you're supposed to have your emotions validated. And some of the things on your list, this is an exercise on page 26 for assessing your parents' emotional immaturity.

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I want you to just listen to the work of Dr. Gibson. So here's a question. My parents often overreacted to relatively minor things. My parents didn't express much empathy or emotional awareness. When it came to emotional closeness and feelings, my parents seemed uncomfortable. They didn't go there. My parent was irritated by differences or different points of view.

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When I was growing up, my parent would use me as a confidant, but wasn't a confidant for me. My parent often said and did things without thinking about people's feelings. I didn't get much attention or sympathy from my parent, except for maybe when I was sick. My parent was inconsistent, sometimes wise, sometimes unreasonable.

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And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And I'm glad that you made the time to listen to this particular episode, because here's what it tells me about you.

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If they became upset, my parent either said something superficial or unhelpful or got angry and sarcastic. Conversations mostly centered on my parents' interest. Even polite disagreement could make my parent very defensive. It was deflating to tell my parent about my successes because it just didn't seem to matter. Facts and logic were no match for my parents' opinions.

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My parent wasn't self-reflective, rarely looked at his or her role in any problem. And my parent tended to be a black and white thinker and unreceptive to new ideas. And, you know, certainly as I read that list, I can see check, check, check for myself. I think I was a very emotionally immature parent for a large part of my kid's life. And I can see the damage that it did.

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What do you want the person listening as they're sitting there going, oh, wow, never thought about it this way. What do you want the person who may be hearing this and feeling validated for the first time ever to to know about the experience of being raised by an emotionally immature parent?

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It tells me that you're the type of person who values your time, and you're also interested in learning more about how your childhood experiences have impacted who you have become as an adult. And if somebody that you care about shared this with you, I want you to view this episode as an invitation to not only better understand yourself and improve your life, but

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One of the things that I found as I was reading your book and as the team here at 143 Studios and I were just pouring over your work is just how validating. everything that you write is. And I'm going to read it just a little bit more. Emotionally immature parents can have devastating impacts on their children's self-esteem and relationships in adulthood.

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And while the effects can range from mild to severe, depending on the parent's level of immaturity, the net effect is the same. The children feel emotionally unseen and lonely, and this erodes their sense of their own lovability and can lead to excessive caution about emotional intimacy with other people.

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I think it would be very helpful to walk through the four types of emotionally immature parents, because based on your research and your clinical practice, you have four very helpful buckets that help you see your parents objectively through the lens of these different buckets that emotionally immature parents can fall into. And I'll read them to you. It's on page 70 of your book.

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There are emotional parents who are run by their feelings. There are driven parents who are compulsively goal-oriented and super busy. There are passive parents who are just kind of checked out. And then there are rejecting parents that engage in behaviors that make you wonder why they have you in the family in the first place. And so I'd love to have you unpack them one by one.

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What is the emotional parent that's run by their feelings? What is that parent like to be around?

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but also an invitation to discuss what you learned with the person who sent this to you. Because if you do, it's going to bring you even closer to them. And that's pretty cool. And if your parents sent this to you, it is an invitation to talk about a topic that is really hard to talk about in families. And that's the impact that your parents had on you. Look, it's easy to give them the credit.

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How does being raised by this type of emotional immaturity in a parent, so you've got the irrupter, you've got somebody whose mood dictates the house, how does that impact your development as the child and the types of patterns that you're struggling with in your adult relationships?

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Or you're probably going to be hyper-reading every mood and every action for cues as to whether or not they like you or you're okay or things are going okay, like that hyper-vigilance and that sense that something is going wrong or could go wrong or that you're somehow going to be to blame. I think that, it sounds like, is something that gets conditioned into you.

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Yes.

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Wow. That makes so much sense. You know, Dr. Gibson, this is the perfect time to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And as you listen to the sponsors, take a moment and share this with your friends, with your siblings, with people that you care about, because this is one of those conversations that has the potential to truly change someone's life.

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And don't you dare go anywhere because Dr. Gibson has so much more to share with you about emotionally immature parents when we return. So stay with us.

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Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are getting to spend time together with the amazing Dr. Lindsay Gibson, and we're learning about emotionally immature parents and how to heal from parents that are distant, rejecting, self-involved. Talk to us about the driven parent.

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It's easy to talk about all the good stuff that happened. But nobody wants to talk about the things that weren't so great, that hurt, that were really confusing. And so I'm going to come right out and I'm going to go first and I'm going to say, I used to be an emotionally immature parent.

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It's very goal-driven. Wait, so you're talking about the kind of parent... that is driving their kids to get into the Ivy League and driving their kids to get into the division this and the sports that. Because you just said we. So the driven isn't that they're climbing the corporate ladder or just completely goal-oriented in their own life.

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It's that they're goal-oriented and driven in terms of micromanaging what their kids are doing because it's an extension of them. Exactly. Exactly. The extension of them, it's an enmeshment.

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And it took me far too long to recognize that my emotional outbursts, my inability to manage my emotions or my stress, my mood swings, that it had a negative impact on my kids. Look, I wish I had had the knowledge that you're about to gain today when I was in my 20s, both for myself, my own happiness, my own healing, and for my ability to be a more mature person in relationships.

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Yes. The guilt, the shame. Yes. The questioning, the withdrawal of love. How does this impact you? a person in terms of the things they struggle with as an adult, if they're raised by somebody like this?

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And if you even feel guilty for just considering that something might have been off in your relationship with your folks, I need you to hear this. You're still right. See, you're not crazy. You're not too sensitive. You're not overreacting.

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And how does that impact you when you become an adult, if you have had a parent that is that type of emotionally immature parent, that they're just passive?

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Let's talk about the fourth type of emotionally immature parent, which is the rejecting parent.

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Can you describe what that type of person's like?

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So today, here's what we're gonna do. You and I are gonna go there. We're going to talk about this topic with the help of a world-renowned expert by the name of Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson. Dr. Gibson is a clinical psychologist and New York Times best-selling author with over 30 years of experience helping adult children heal from emotionally immature parents. Her work is truly life-changing.

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You know, I have a feeling that the person that's with us right now is listening to you and hanging on to every word and going, Dr. Gibson, how were you in my house growing up? How do you know all this stuff that I went through? This is the perfect time to take a quick break. We're going to hear a word from our sponsors.

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And I want to give you a chance to not only really think about everything that Dr. Gibson has shared with you, but to take a moment and share this with somebody in your life that you know needs to hear this. And don't go anywhere because there is so much more to learn from Dr. Gibson when we return. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. I'm so glad you are here with me.

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I am loving learning from Dr. Gibson. I am sure you are too. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that could help you think differently about your childhood or about just your own emotional maturity. It's a super cool topic. And over the break, I kept thinking about something else I wanted to ask you. And so where I want to go next is this.

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Can you tell the person listening how just recognizing that you have had this experience of being raised by an emotionally immature parent may have impacted their life? emotional development and what you want them to know.

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Dr. Gibson... has helped millions of people around the world break free from the invisible emotional suffering that has held them back since childhood. She earned her doctorate of clinical psychology from the Virginia Consortium Program. Her best-selling book is called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents.

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Which is why they erupt or they dismiss or they get defensive or they put it back on you or I don't want to talk about it. Right. And then that trains you to like walk on eggshells and use a different tone of voice and worry about whether or not this is the right time or kind of couch it in a certain way in order to manage somebody's emotional immaturity.

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And that just leaves you feeling like you're the problem.

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So is the problem that your work helps us highlight is recognizing when you're dealing with somebody who's emotionally immature.

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I actually love that you just said mismatch because I feel like one of the most important things about your work is giving words. to a extraordinarily common experience. If 91% of people of 8.5 million followers that we polled asked, you know, were you raised by somebody who was emotionally immature? Say, yes, this rings true.

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It has sold over a million copies. And after we dig into her incredible research and the tools that she's gonna share with you today, you're going to understand why her work is so life-changing. So please help me welcome Dr. Gibson to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh, thank you. It's a joy to be here, Mel, truly. When we knew that you were coming on,

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that experience of I'm trying to connect and communicate with you, and then all of a sudden the person's mood shifts or their body language turns hostile or their facial expression just looks blank and rejecting, there is a complete mismatch. And you do start to scramble in your mind because the signaling from the other person is very clearly shut up. I'm not interested. You're annoying me.

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I don't care about this. And you can pick up on it immediately. Absolutely. And it is true. You start to think I'm the problem. And I love that you just said, no, no, no, that's the wrong problem. It's not how you're communicating. It's that you're trying to communicate with somebody who is either too emotionally immature to be that has no interest in communicating with you.

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And that's an important thing to understand because from the very beginning, you've been saying, this isn't about blaming anybody. It's about seeing the situation objectively so you can change how you show up in this relationship and what you expect of this person. Because I think...

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If I'm speaking from my own experience, whether it's the child-parent relationship or it's me as a parent to my child and being able to look and see at how my own emotional immaturity, being overly emotional, big eruptor. I'm sure my kids would tell you that they never knew what kind of mood I was going to be in when I woke up.

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My husband, definitely, we are the classic, I'm the emotional one, he's the passive one. I'm the one that is probably a little bit scarier, or at least I used to be, and still I started working on myself and developing the skill of emotional maturity. But I think as kids, you think that there's something you can do to change this. And the fact is, you can't make somebody else emotionally mature.

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A person has to do that for themselves and they have to want to because it's actually work to want to learn about your emotions and learn how to process them. And I found a part of your book so fascinating, Dr. Gibson. It's on page 84. You talk all about this thing called healing fantasies and how these healing fantasies that we have about our parents in particular that you've noticed that

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One thing that all children who have been raised by emotionally immature parents, which, you know, you also say that means they've been emotionally deprived children. One thing they have in common is they come up with a fantasy about how they are going to eventually get what they need. And as you're listening to Dr. Gibson, this might absolutely just hit you like a sledgehammer.

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that children often think the cure for their childhood pain and emotional loneliness lies in finding a way to change themselves and other people into something other than who they really are. Healing fantasies have one theme, if only.

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people may think they'd be loved if only they were more selfless or more attractive, or they may think that their life would be healed if only they became more famous or rich, that there are all these things we make up in our mind that help us get through these situations where we're not getting our needs met. But the problem is they affect us as adults.

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So Dr. Gibson, can you unpack what a healing fantasy is?

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I went on to our Instagram account where we have 8.5 million followers and I put up a poll. Are your parents emotionally immature?

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Well, the way that I look at it is this way and tell me if this feels like a good way to think about it, because I think it's very confronting when you start to look at your parents objectively and you feel bad and you feel a lot of grief and it's also very validating.

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to be able to see behavior that was a complete mismatch for what you needed and to understand that oftentimes, you know, according to your work, Dr. Gibson, that the emotionally immature person does not even realize that this is what they're doing and this is the impact it's having on you.

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Maybe your parent has big, intense reactions to things like having outbursts, punishing you for having feelings, relying on you for adult emotional support, or maybe they're emotionally unavailable, never demonstrating affection and only offering criticism, prioritizing their needs over yours. Can you relate? 91% of people. said yes. Wow. 91% said yes. My parents are emotionally immature.

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But the more work I've done on myself, the more that I realize this isn't about always being emotionally mature. Because there are going to be times where you're exhausted and life is testing you or your child is, frankly, so freaking trying and annoying and taxing that you're going to freaking scream at them. Like, just do what I'm saying.

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It's the ability to calm yourself down and repair what just happened. Right. That in my mind is the sign of an emotionally mature person. The awareness that the eruption happened or the

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dismissing happened or you didn't show up in a way that maybe was as supportive as you would have liked and to be able to talk about it in a way where you can take ownership for your side of it and actually be genuinely interested in making sure the other person's okay and that that relationship and that safety's repaired.

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That to me is the thing that feels like the hallmark of somebody who's emotionally mature versus somebody who's not.

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Yes.

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You know, I think that there's a lot of people that are going to listen to this and actually share this with their adult children as a way to open up a conversation about apologizing. Because as blunt as I am about the things that I regret,

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And as much as I can own the fact that when I was a young parent and my kids were younger, I was emotionally immature and very overwhelmed by my life and very overwhelmed by past issues of trauma that I had never dealt with and things just going on in my life that I took out on them that they didn't deserve.

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And I can speak very black and white about it, but I would give anything to go back in time. and to change the parent that I was and be better for them. But being able to apologize and to see it myself has been this enormous gift in my relationship with my kids and bringing us even closer in our relationship.

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And so I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for the things that you didn't know about yourself. And I would imagine you have much more experience with this than me that I would think a lot of people are very receptive to that apology if it's coming from a very earnest place and you're also working on changing how you show up now.

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But how does that hope and the healing fantasy actually get in the way of you healing?

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That you're expecting the emotionally immature person to suddenly be mature and rescue you from this dysfunction. Yes, exactly. When the only person that's going to rescue you is you seeing it objectively and recognizing that you have to rescue yourself from it by seeing who you're dealing with. Exactly. Exactly.

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You know, in your book, you talk a lot about this hidden grief that, you know, when you really embrace the reality that you were raised by somebody who's emotionally immature, there's a lot of grief that you feel about the fact that there's this massive mismatch between what you needed and what you actually got.

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They could relate to a parent that has massive intense reactions to things or are completely unavailable. And does that surprise you?

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Can you tell us why grief is such a common experience that people feel when they recognize that they are the child of an emotionally immature parent?

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If you felt invisible when you were growing up or if your needs were often ignored or if no matter what you did, it was never enough, if you're constantly walking on eggshells, you didn't imagine that. And you want to know the crazy part?

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How can you maintain a relationship with a parent who is emotionally immature without getting drained? I'm not entirely sure that's possible.

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It may be depressing, but it's reality. Well, because you're living in a fantasy. If you've known somebody your whole life, and they're basically checking every box on Dr. Gibson's list here, and you recognize that you're dealing with somebody who is emotionally immature, then you live in a fantasy world if you actually expect them to magically change.

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And so lowering expectations, Dr. Gibson, basically just means accepting reality.

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What are tools that you can use when you recognize this to not get sucked into that?

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Mm-hmm.

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Exactly. Got it. Neutral territory.

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If somebody would love to take this conversation and start becoming more emotionally mature, what is one thing that you would want for them to do?

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It's okay. It's free. That's why I like it. It's free. So is there a prompt that you would give to the person listening? Yeah.

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Oh, I love that.

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So Dr. Gibson, if you could just give one piece of advice to an adult child of an emotionally immature parent, what would it be?

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Well, after today, we're definitely not going to.

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Well, Dr. Lindsay Gibson, the book is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. After our conversation today and certainly after devouring your book, I definitely have the ability to tell when somebody is treating me well and when they're not. And that also includes when I'm treating myself well and when I am not.

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Oh, that just put a giant yellow highlighter on what it then means to be emotionally immature. Yeah. You can't think objectively, you can't really handle your emotions, and you disconnect from other people. Yes. Can you give us a few examples of what emotional immaturity would look like, especially in a parent? Sure.

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Thank you, thank you, thank you for putting words to the experience that so many people around the world have had. Thank you for validating that experience and thank you for giving us the tools for how we can heal and how we ourselves can become more emotionally mature and connected and kind human beings.

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We so appreciate you. And I also appreciate you. And I know you're going to absolutely love this book. You're going to love taking all the tools that we discussed today and applying them to your life. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that can improve your life. There's no doubt what we talked about today absolutely will.

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you today that I love you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And our conversation today and the insights that you just gained, it absolutely will help you do that. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days, and I will be waiting for you in the very next episode, the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

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Okay, fantastic. All right, here we go. Whenever you two are... You guys ready? Okay, here we go. Was that good? I think it needs one more. Are you sure? I think we need one more. Like, I felt a little jumbly. Sorry, I'm getting hangry, guys. I just... You got it. We got it all. Boom. There you go. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Stitcher.

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I bet even after all of that, you still find yourself struggling to set boundaries or you still find yourself craving their approval and bending over backwards or feeling guilty whenever you disappoint them. And there's a reason why you feel the way you do. Our expert today says the reason you feel this way is because you grew up with an emotionally immature parent.

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Is guilt trips around not being able to come home for the holidays or not being available to do something this weekend or not being available to drive you somewhere, is that an example of emotional immaturity too?

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What about trashing other family members, like complaining to you about your siblings? You're on the phone with one of your parents and they always have to bring up a criticism of somebody else in the family. Great example.

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And then you don't know what to say because then they're going to erupt and get all huffy if you call them out on it.

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And today, you're finally going to understand what that means. 91% of you said, yes, I can relate to that. So in order to teach us about this very common experience of being raised by an emotionally immature parent and the exhausting cycle that you can find yourself in,

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And so I'm just going to keep on doing it. So I'm just going to keep on doing it. And you know, that's one of the liberating things about your book is you just keep coming back to this point that the point isn't about shaming and blaming and all that stuff. It's about seeing the situation objectively and understanding this is who this person is.

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And expecting that this is going to change magically on their own is setting you up for being frustrated in this dynamic. And recognizing that you're in the dynamic is actually what gives you power to change how you show up in it. Exactly. Could you tell the person who is with us right now,

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what they could experience in their life that could be different, if they really take to heart everything that you are about to share with us and teach to us today.

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And what might change for the person listening about their relationship with their parents as we start unpacking this topic of being raised by an emotionally immature person?

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I called in the world's leading expert on the topic and she is here to free you from the guilt, the confusion and the impossible expectations that you're never going to meet. And I have no doubt that you're going to be nodding along the entire time going, did this psychologist grow up in my house? Because this is exactly what it was like to be me.

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I think that's incredible, Dr. Gibson. And it actually reminded me of something that you wrote in your book. This is chapter two on page 24, that the mission is not to disrespect or betray your parents, but to finally see them objectively. And that this discussion that you and I are going to have today

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gives you a deeper understanding of the reasons for the limitations of an emotionally immature parent. By viewing these and other aspects of your parents more dispassionately, you can understand things about yourself and your history that you might not have thought about before. My hope is that any new insights about your parent that you gain from this conversation

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result in you radically increasing your own self-awareness and emotional freedom. And one of the other things that you write about is that most signs of emotional immaturity are beyond a person's conscious control, and most emotionally immature parents have no awareness of how they've affected their children. We aren't trying to blame these parents, but to understand why they are the way they are

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And that's how the insights that we're going to gain from our conversation today will empower you to see this differently. And what I'm excited about, Dr. Gibson, and the opportunity to work with you, is that I do think that it's very difficult to look at your parents objectively. You either blame them or you excuse what happened.

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Why do we feel so much guilt or why do a lot of us feel guilt when we start to look at what we experienced in childhood and the emotional maturity of our parents?

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Since I started this podcast over two years ago, I have been on a mission to introduce you to interesting, smart and inspiring people that have something that you and I can learn from.

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are shaping your experience and learning the skill of choosing what you wanna think about or how you wanna think about things. And we're gonna get into those. So Dr. Julie, you've been very open about your recent cancer diagnosis.

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Can you use that as an example of a situation where life sucks, things happen, and how you were then using this toolkit that we're gonna unpack for the person that's with us to navigate through that situation that just happened.

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I am so thrilled to be here with you today, and it's always an honor, always, to spend time with you, to be together. If you're a new listener, I also want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And because you made the time and you decided to hit play on this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

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Well, Dr. Julie, I think it's a unbelievably relatable story. And, you know, I'm thinking right now of friends of mine who are sitting in a hospital and they have a loved one who is waiting heart surgery. And, you know, it's just like every day holding on to hope and even thinking of friends who just lost their job. And.

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That whole flip from feeling like the prey where something's coming after you and you have nothing that you can do versus that flip to, no, I'm going to be the predator.

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I'm going after it. That is an example of the kind of tools you are so brilliant at giving to people in your private practice, to giving to all of us online. And I can see how that's already growing. going to help somebody, whether they're dealing with a breakup or they're dealing with just that sense of helplessness. No, that's what a prey feels like. We're going to think like a predator.

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Well, it is because I think we've all heard the, like, use the fear and do it anyway, or like, let the fear fuel you. And like, what does that even mean? But if you then turn it into a tool and say, no, no, no, no, you're either the prey or the predator. Yeah. Yeah.

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And that helps you process the fear, which is a mentally healthy response to a cancer diagnosis or to a breakup or to a job loss, but it helps you process it and then use it to your advantage, which I just absolutely love. Dr. Julie, let's hit the pause so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words.

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You're the kind of person who values your time and you're also someone who is committed to learning how to become the best version of yourself and getting better at navigating life's ups and downs. And we could all get better at that, myself included. And if you chose to listen to this because someone shared this with you,

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And I also want to give you a chance to share Dr. Julie's wisdom with the people that you love. Don't go anywhere. We have so many more topics and so many more tools in the toolkit that we're going to share with you when we return. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I have the pleasure of getting to spend time together learning from Dr. Julie Smith.

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We're hearing all about her toolkit and the simple tools that she has to share with you and me to help us navigate the ups and downs of life. So Dr. Julie, the next question that I have is this.

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For somebody who's feeling extremely overwhelmed right now with a situation in life, or maybe they're grieving something, a relationship that's over, they've lost somebody, do you have any other tools that you would recommend for what processing those emotion mean in that context?

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I think it's an important thing that I want to acknowledge and point out to you. It's really cool that you have people in your life that care enough about you to send this to you. And they sent this to you because they want you to have the experience of learning from the amazing Dr. Julie Smith and they want you to have the toolkit that she's going to share with you.

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So that's almost an example of another tool is visualizing yourself in an ocean and understanding that when the emotion rises of overwhelm or grief or anger or sadness or fear of whatever, just let it rise and visualize yourself kind of letting it fall. Yeah. Another thing that you write about in Open When is just kind of chronic comparison and how we look around at the world around us.

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And then we tell ourselves, I'm less than, I'm never going to make that money. I'm never going to be this. I'm never going to be that. Nothing I ever do is right. And you're using comparison as a way to beat yourself down. And you have this quote in the book that I freaking love. Resentment is not a reflection of of what the world owes you. It is a sign of what you need to work on.

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What does that mean?

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Based on the millions of people that follow you and your own private practice, can you give me an example of how that works? Like something that people write in are really struggling about comparison or whether it's their body to somebody else or that they're not married yet or just something that you're seeing a lot of so that we can ground that advice and example?

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And I personally could not be more excited to have Dr. Julie in person today. She is a world-renowned clinical psychologist, a best-selling author of the mega blockbuster bestseller, Why Has Nobody Told Me This Before?, which has spent 109 weeks on the UK Sunday Times bestseller list. She has impacted millions of lives with the content she shares online.

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And there's one person in particular, and I am not exaggerating when I tell you this, that I, since the very start of this show two years ago, I have been wanting to get her to come to our studios in Boston. Now, the problem is simple. Well, she lives 3,235 miles from here. Plus, she has three young kids. She is extremely in demand because she has a private practice as a psychologist.

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How do you stop yourself from doing it? So if comparison's normal and you say, because I was really intrigued and you're like, you're making the wrong comparisons. Mm-hmm. Who are the right comparisons to?

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And I love that you said be specific. Because if you're saying, who's somebody that's a couple steps ahead and there's a specific thing that I want to get better at, and when you compare yourself to somebody like that in that narrow framing, now it becomes a tool instead of it becoming torturous to you.

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So, Dr. Julie, when you have somebody come into your practice or write into you online and they're having trouble just being with other people, very shy, very introverted, like feel very awkward around other people, what are some tools and strategies that you recommend?

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And now she's taken all of that wisdom and poured it into her new bestselling book, Open When. It's a book that you open when things are going wrong. It's a toolkit for life that will help you handle the ups, the downs, and everything in between. Because when life feels chaotic, you deserve clarity. When emotions feel overwhelming, you deserve tools that work.

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You have this quote, it's not so much that the socially confident have worked out how to prevent awkward moments. It's simply that they barely focus on trying to avoid them at all. Sometimes focusing only on what you're trying to avoid leads you straight to it. Yeah. And so if you have somebody that is listening right now, and this is really like an issue, like I feel awkward around other people.

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I'm not good in big groups. I don't like to like put myself out there. What assignment or what would you tell them if they were sitting across from you? Because that person might be listening right now. What do they actually need to do?

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Okay, so I've now pushed myself to go to this networking meeting. I did not want to go. I hate small talk. I'm feeling awkward. I'm now standing in that semicircle with like four people. I keep staring at people's shoes and I'm thinking, this is horrible. I don't know what to say. So how do I use the spotlight tool right now?

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And when you feel stuck, you deserve a way forward. And today, you're going to get it. So without further ado, please help me welcome the incredible Dr. Julie Smith to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Julie Smith is in the house. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you.

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You know what I love about that reframe is that you literally just so skillfully said, if you're focused inward, you're going to feel anxious. But you can take the spotlight and focus on what are the other people saying? Am I listening? What are they wearing? Can I give a compliment? And now all of a sudden you're using this tool to be able to navigate the situation.

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And when you end it, it might not be incredible, but you got yourself through it. Yeah. And that's the cool thing.

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If You’re Feeling Uncertain & Anxious, You Need to Hear This

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One section of your book, Open When, is when you're really hard on yourself and you've done things that you regret and we've all been there, but you're really struggling to forgive yourself. What are some tools and strategies that you recommend when you're just really hard on yourself?

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Well, I'm a huge fan of yours. And I am grateful that you hopped on a plane and you flew overseas to be here with us. And I want to start by telling you, Your new book, Open When, is absolutely extraordinary. I am so proud of you. I am so excited for the world to have this book.

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Beaten down, scared. Like my first thing that I thought was, my God, I guess I better figure out how to be friends with this person or else they're going to destroy me.

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Right.

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Like I'm actually going away to camp.

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How do you begin to talk to yourself as a friend if you actually believe that you're a bad person or that you look in the past and you see lots of evidence of the mistakes that you've made?

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And you can get it from podcasts and from social media clips. And what I loved about what you just said, though, because I really want to highlight this, is that A, recognizing that you kind of have engaged in regrettable or despicable or hurtful or painful behavior. Even just recognizing it,

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I just, before we even dive in, I just want to read just even the table of contents because it is literally a guide to life. I mean, I want you to open this book when you compare yourself and come up short. When your friends are not your friends. When you want to be less awkward around people. And these are all bite-sized chapters filled with things to do and ways to change how you think.

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I love this reframe that that's a really great sign of progress that you have the ick factor with yourself. And that's different than holding it over your head. Mm-hmm. And so if you can recognize it, is there any trick to reframing then like how you actually talk to yourself moving forward?

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Like when you can't think of anything else, is there something that you give to the clients that you work with that is kind of universal that helps them shake off the hold that being hard on yourself can have?

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And I can figure out how to do better. You know, you mentioned the future. And Dr. Julie, I would love to know how you help a client who feels a lot of uncertainty about the future. And right now, I think it's at an all-time high when you look at the headlines and when you look at the reports around the spike in anxiety and stress that people are feeling around the world.

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So what are tools that you can use to manage the uncertainty when you look out to the future?

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Yes.

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Open when your inner voice is your own worst critic. When you doubt yourself and want to feel more confident. Open when you're overthinking everything. When you have done something you regret. I needed this book 30 years ago, Dr. Julie. Open when your anger erupts too often. I mean, who hasn't struggled with these things?

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I'm glad that you said that because I think when people hear, you have to allow the uncertainty. You have to allow the fact that there are things out of your control, whether it's the headlines or the fact that you're now single again. Yeah.

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And you didn't want to be or that you just had a miscarriage and you didn't want it or you just got the cancer diagnosis or somebody that you love is going in for surgery and it's all uncertain or AI feels like it's taking over the world and will it take over your job? And so that sense of like, oh, my gosh, I just have to let them. I have to allow this because I can't control it.

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I'm so happy you reminded us that that's not where it ends because you brought it right back to the prey versus the predator, which is there are small things that I can do to put the foot forward and get ahead of this thing or just focus on what is important to me. And there was a tool in there, which is believing that you have a future, believing that things are better. Why is that important?

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It's true.

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It's true. So in your private practice and with your online audience, what are you seeing that people are struggling the most with right now?

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What are the big struggles in relationships?

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And what's the most important thing that you think we need to know to make our relationships better?

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So Dr. Julie- What if you're in a relationship with somebody who doesn't want to deal with their emotions? They don't want to look inward. They don't want to have these kinds of conversations with you. Like, what advice do you give to your clients when they come in and they talk about the fact that I'm trying to connect? I'm trying to get them to process their emotion. They're not opening up.

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I wouldn't want you at a dinner party. Be like, not those two.

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Dr. Julie, I could listen to you all day long and I need to give our amazing sponsors a chance to say a few words. And so let's hit the pause button. I also want to give you a chance to share this with someone in your life who could use all of the remarkable tools that Dr. Julie is sharing with you and me today. And everybody in your life needs to hear this. I just love this conversation.

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We have so many more topics to unpack when we return. So don't go anywhere. Dr. Julie and I are going to be waiting for you. after a short break, so stay with me. Welcome back. I am so thrilled you're still here. Thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this and to learn from Dr. Julie. And thank you for sharing this with people that you care about in your life.

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All right. So Dr. Julie, here's where I want to go next. You know, since so many people are either struggling with anxiety or they have someone in their life who is, what is the advice that you give your clients when you're working with them through a period where they feel anxious?

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You know, that's something that I actually worry about because I feel like it's a super positive thing that there's so much conversation about mental health and about the things that people struggle with and normalizing it so you don't feel alone and so that you seek out support.

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But I do worry about how it's easy to opt out of the things that you need to do because it's, quote, bad for your mental health.

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How do you know the difference between whether or not it's actually really something you should opt out of or whether or not you just don't want to do the thing that you probably need to be doing, but it just feels hard?

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Well, I asked you this because one of our producers just said, well, you know, I used to have a lot of anxiety about flying, but I'm not anxious anymore because I don't fly. And it's kind of funny, but it made me wonder, Dr. Julie, what happens if you keep avoiding the things that make you anxious?

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For the person who's not watching this on YouTube, she has this like child's play toy, which is like this big wooden rainbow in front of her. And it's got all the colors of the red, the orange, the yellow, the green, the blue, the purple, and it's about six inches high. Dr. Julie has a rainbow made of wood in front of her.

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And with each piece of the rainbow, Dr. Julie, that you remove- The actual arch is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And when anxiety or grief or nerves or depression or sadness or heartbreak starts to creep in, we do have the tendency to just withdraw.

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When you see how small it's gotten. And it actually reminds me of times in my life where either my anxiety was so bad or my postpartum depression was so bad or one of my kids was struggling with anxiety and they just stopped doing things that they used to enjoy because they just felt like it was too hard.

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And as they stopped doing sleepovers or they stopped wanting to do fun things on the weekend or they stopped wanting to try out for sports or they stopped wanting to go to the party, it's just like that rainbow. Every single thing that they stopped doing or were scared to do was an example of the way that their life just got smaller and smaller and smaller.

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And it is so sad and it's easy for it to kind of creep up on you. I think the visual is so powerful because you actually see what's happening when in reality, when you're going through it, it just sort of slowly feels like it's happening until all of a sudden you're just in a really small life. Yeah. Thank you for showing us this visual because as much as it's sad and

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There's also this flip side to it where it's really compelling because you actually see the solution. If your life feels very small, there are things that you can start adding back in, even if it feels overwhelming or scary to try to do it, that will actually immediately start to make your life feel bigger and fuller again.

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Dr. Julie, what is the first step other than recognizing this to start to put the pieces back in place? Yeah. that you didn't even realize that you took away.

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of the time, you know you're silently giving up on a part of your life. I think most times, like I choose to believe that we all want to thrive. We all want to be happy. We all want to feel the full possibility of our lives. And that when we are self-sabotaging or avoiding or shrinking or holding ourselves back and limiting that, we know. And how do you recognize though,

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when you're doing that, you know what I'm saying? Because I think you can get so used to being small.

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based on that fear because i don't want the children so the children then become the key to i don't want them to suffer the consequences of this even though i might have had consequences so if you don't have kids how do you find that anchor for yourself yeah and could you build it back up since you've taken some of the rainbow stripes off to show us how you can like let's just say the person listening feels very small let's say they went through a divorce yeah

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She's also sharing life-changing information online to millions of followers and is in the middle of launching her mega bestselling books. So she hasn't been able to make the trip from Europe to be in our Boston studios. And you know what? I respect that. But today is the day. She hopped on a plane with her husband and their three kids and came all the way to Boston to be here for one reason.

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And it was shattering and life-changing. And they're still alone. And their partners moved on. And the friend groups have changed. And you've had to reinvent yourself. And you recognize that there are...

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Just ways in which you're holding yourself back and you have justifiable and very normal fears about getting hurt again or putting yourself out there or the negativity that you tell yourself that nobody's going to find, whatever it may be. But you're now listening to you, Dr. Julie, and you're going, that's me. Or you're listening and you're going, that's my mother. Yeah.

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My mother is stuck like that and her life has become very small. If you've had that epiphany, how do you start building back in those pieces of your life that you've been avoiding because it just feels new or uncomfortable or like, I didn't sign up for this or it's going to be hard?

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Well, I remember, I'll share an example because I think it would be helpful. And then maybe you have one that you can share based on some issues that have come up with clients or that you're seeing online. I remember when we moved to a brand new place and I was early 50s. And I felt like it was the biggest mistake in the world. I had no friends. I was super, super lonely.

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And I started to swirl in all the self-doubt and the sadness and the loneliness around this massive life transition, moving from where we had been for 26 years. And I recognized after about six months of the wallowing that my life had gotten very small. And the very first step I took

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was I told myself I had to leave the house once a day, even just to go to the grocery store or to get a cup of coffee. And then the next thing became I had to go to the coffee shop and sit there for a half an hour and read a book. And then the next thing became I had to go to the coffee shop and sit there for a half an hour and read a book, and I had to actually talk to people. Yeah.

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And that was an example of a period of my life where I was avoiding the very thing that would have solved the issue of loneliness and acclimating to a new community. But do you have another example that might give somebody an idea of what you're talking about? Like, let's use the issue of heartbreak.

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Like, if somebody has had their heart broken and deep down they know that they would love to fall in love and have a partner and... have a new chapter, but they've been holding themselves back, what are some simple steps that feel like you may not even realize you've been avoiding it?

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So, Dr. Julie, you have shared so much. And I think my kids are going to get so sick and tired of me telling them, are you the prey or are you the predator? You want to be the prey? You want to be the predator? If the person listening took just one lesson or tool away from this conversation, what do you think is the most important thing?

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Well, I completely relate because when I read your book, I thought I have to give this to all three of my kids. because it is a manual for life, and let's face it, life is very difficult. And what I'm excited for us to do today is to unpack all these little nuggets of wisdom that are life skills, that are tools that you can assemble in a toolkit for life, Because life is stressful right now.

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Dr. Julie Smith, what are your parting words?

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Well, Dr. Julie Smith, you're changing lives. You are helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you for showing up every day for the world online. Thank you for writing this incredible instant bestseller, Open When, which is truly exactly as you envisioned. It is a guide to life because life is hard, but you don't have to be so hard on yourself.

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And there are simple things that you can do to put your arm around yourself and help you get yourself through it. So thank you. Thanks for having me. Of course. And I wanna thank you for taking the time to listen to something that will help you get yourself through the ups and downs in life. I am thrilled that you spent the time listening to this.

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I can't wait for you to share this with people that you love. And in case no one else tells you, I wanna be sure to tell you that I love you. I believe in you. I believe in your ability to create a better life. And I know that everything that Dr. Julie shared with you today is gonna help you do that. Alrighty. I'll talk to you in a few days.

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I'll be waiting to welcome you into the next episode the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. Waiting for my go. Not allowed to go until I said that.

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We'll send you home with that one. There's your prize. Trace wants to pull the rice away real quick. Okay.

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You can actually dump it on the floor. It's fine. Just throw it on the floor. I don't care.

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If You’re Feeling Uncertain & Anxious, You Need to Hear This

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Make it happen to go longer. And do you want to have her hand pick some up?

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Because your nails look great.

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Like if you're not feeling anxious, somebody that you love probably is. If you're not overwhelmed, somebody else is that you care about. If you haven't lost a job or are stressed out about the headlines, somebody that you care about is. And everything that you're about to share that you've also beautifully written about in this new bestselling book, Open When, are just tools.

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And I love that you said that It's the kind of thing that you wish everybody knew and that you almost wish people didn't have to pay for. Yeah. You have been in clinical practice for over a decade. You have millions of followers who hang on your videos and are so inspired and empowered by them. I would love for you to just tell the person listening, how do you think about

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what you're doing in your role as a clinical psychologist. Like if you just explained it in just plain speak, how would you describe what you do for people?

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Dr. Julie, what would you tell someone who feels like they're the only person in their friend group or their family who's actually struggling?

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She's here for you, to help you and the people that you love through the ups and downs of life. So we're going to send her husband, Matt, and their three kids to the amazing Children's Museum here in downtown Boston while Dr. Julie Smith and I unpack her extraordinary toolkit for life. Because life is hard. You are gonna struggle and so will the people that you love. And that's normal.

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Why is it important for you to recognize that you're not the only one? Like what benefit does it have on you if you are in a moment where you're struggling?

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The other thing that I love about it, and this visual is so helpful, is that there are going to be times where I am the wild rice that's going through something. And then there'll be times that I'm the white rice and things are okay.

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And also understanding that we swap those positions in life, I think, gives you perspective that where you're at right now, if you're struggling, isn't where you're always going to be.

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And it also gives you the motivation and hope that if you do use the tools that you share with us, that you'll pass through it a little quicker.

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Well, that's why I'm so glad that you're here because I think that, you know, you hear the word mental health and you think something big and scary, but no, you can struggle with friendship. You can struggle with loneliness. You can struggle with not having a direction in your career. You can struggle with money.

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There's so many things in life that cause you to doubt or overthink or feel down about yourself. And I'm so excited to dig into the tools. Dr. Julie, as a clinical psychologist, you say that everybody deserves to have an emotional toolkit. What does that mean?

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But even when things feel overwhelming, there's always something you can do. You're stronger than you think. All you need is a little toolkit and today you're gonna get it. And this is one of those conversations that you're not only gonna love, you're gonna wanna share it with everyone you love. So let's get into it. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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Well, and what's great about the way that you're framing this, because you're now talking about teaching us skills around managing emotions and feeling emotions and not being scared of emotions and processing them and tools around understanding the way that your thoughts work.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Okay, I am so excited that you're here with me today because, drum roll please, by huge demand, my husband Chris and I are back behind the mic and let me tell you, this is gonna be good because we asked you to submit your burning questions about relationships to MelRobbins.com. Holy smokes, were your questions amazing.

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You two need to get together and agree on what you value and what your parenting style is and why. And that's what creates a house that is together. And once you're together, there is nothing on the outside that can make you fall.

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I would also say that if you haven't had that conversation, it's cool to sit together and actually consider, regardless of how many years you may be together, but what your values are and what the other person's values are and why and how are they or are they not even aligned because perception may not be reality there.

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You know, one of the things in writing the Let Them Theory book that I realized when it comes to parenting and families is that when you and your partner decide what your values are and what your traditions are and what your parenting style and philosophy and approach is, it is going to be yours. And if it's different than what you grew up in, guess what?

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Your parents are gonna see that as some rejection of how they did it. They're going to take it personally. It's natural. I think when our kids grow up and they have families of their own, if they do things differently, we'll probably have a little bit of like, oh, great, because we know what we know.

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And so the other thing to consider is just understand that people are going to have their opinions. Let them be a little bothered that you're doing things differently because they're now questioning the way they did things, right? And you and your partner get on the same page. And then there's room for both things to be true.

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There's room for the old traditions and the ways in which you both grew up. And then there's room for you two to come together and figure out how you're going to do it for your family. Super cool question. All right, I'll do the next one. This one's from Sarah. Hey Mel, my spouse and I have been feeling a bit distance after having kids and moving to a new city.

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What advice would you give to couples who feel like they've started to drift apart, especially after a big life change?

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Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always such a pleasure to be with you and to spend time together. And if you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so excited because today, my husband Chris and I are going to be spending time with you, answering your questions.

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carve out a dedicated moment in the week to do something either familiar or totally new, I would say. You and I have, we've been talking about getting back to doing a dance class together that we so loved doing 25 years ago. It's true. But this is a good, whether it's dedicated dinner, date, coffee, walk in the woods, whatever.

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Hold the time in your calendar. Chris and I have just spent the last couple years having like a weekly therapy session. And the best part about it wasn't the therapy. It was the fact that we had a dedicated time in the calendar every week during the day, once a week, to come together and just pause and talk for 40 minutes about how we were doing. And you can create that for yourself.

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I'm not talking about a date night. I'm talking about holding space in your calendar. No phones, no children, no pets, just you two. And we also just moved to a brand new place. We lived outside of Boston for 26 years where we raised our... kids for the most part, and then moved to a small town in Southern Vermont where we really didn't know a lot of people.

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And one of the things that we did is we made a point once a week to go try to explore something in our new area. You just moved to a new place. That's super cool. Find a new hike, try a new restaurant, explore a new neighborhood. These are all opportunities for you two to learn and laugh and grow together, which is super cool. I just love these questions.

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It's really making me think about our relationship and opportunities for us to do an even better job coming together and supporting each other. So thank you. Thank you for taking the time to submit them. And you can go to melrobbins.com slash podcast. There's a form there where you can suggest topics or submit questions. And I would love to answer your questions on an upcoming episode.

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So let's take a moment and hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And when we come back, Chris and I will be waiting for you after this short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. Today, I'm here with my husband, Chris. I am so thrilled that he is here by my side, and I'm so glad you're still here with us, and I'm loving these questions. Here's another one.

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Jessica, I've been married for five years, and sometimes I just need space, but I don't want my spouse to feel like I'm pulling away. How do you and Chris set boundaries with each other when it comes to needing personal space or alone time?

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Well, I think first you got to have a conversation about what constitutes alone time. What do you need? And what serves you? Not just what is alone time, but when do you need it and for how long? This isn't a problem for me because I figured out that I need alone time and I carved it out with you and your understanding of

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Ever since I launched the Mel Robbins podcast, you have been submitting relationship questions to melrobbins.com. And today is the day. And we are going to go one by one through your questions. We're covering so many rich and important topics from resentment to unmet expectations to what to do when you're changing and your spouse isn't or your spouse is changing and you're not.

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Two to three hours in the morning, I get up super early and go do whatever my thing is, whether it's working out or being outside or being in the office. And I think the reason why that really works for me is because I laid that out for you, that I not only need it, this is what it gives for me, and also, please do not interrupt.

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What I love about that is Chris has not negotiated for that and pulled time away from me. He claimed that for himself and you can too. You can create a morning routine where you get alone time. And Chris is also really good about saying, I need to take a couple nights out and go on a solo hike in the woods. And then he also, though, has the consideration to go, when would it work?

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And we work together on carving it out. And so the really big takeaway here is every single person in a relationship has needs. never expect your partner to read your mind. Never expect your partner to just know what those needs are and when you need them.

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When you recognize your own needs and you respect yourself and your partner enough to be able to sit down and say, hey, this is something I need. This is why I need it. Can we collaborate on when and how this is going to work? That's when you both win. Next. Oh, this is a good one, Chris. This comes from Josh.

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Hey, Mel and Chris, my wife and I don't always see eye to eye when it comes to parenting decisions. How do you two handle disagreements when it comes to raising your kids? Do you ever butt heads on how to handle certain situations? I'm laughing, Josh, because if there's one thing we fight about more than anything else, what is it?

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Our kids? No.

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Why are you asking that? That's the only thing I fight with you about.

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Yeah, I suppose, right, about where they are, how close they are, or far they are.

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And how to approach situations, how to solve problems, how to support, and when to let them struggle. And I have anxiety that's easily triggered. So if there's a problem and one of our kids calls, I'm a yes person.

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I'm a jump in and fix it person because it makes me anxious when one of our kids is struggling, even though I know that struggle is important and you gotta let them struggle because that's how you learn. But I'm quick to be like, okay, okay, okay, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. Whereas you are way more grounded and way more patient. And we can give you some examples.

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Why don't you tell them what happened last night with our son?

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Yeah.

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And I was walking by. I wasn't even barely on the phone call. I just heard it and thought, hang on, that's not great. That's not a good idea at all. But what I have to say about that question and even this thing that came up with Oakley is that it occurred to me that

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how to agree on parenting issues, how to deal with pressure from your family, what to do when you start to feel like you're either losing yourself in your marriage or you're starting to drift apart, and so much more. Chris and I have been together for 30 years. We have three adult children, and I'm going to tell you something.

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While it seems like a simple thing to actually stop and reflect on why it is that I'm a no and you're a yes, and maybe consider that an extra two or three minutes of conversing about the difference that we have is going to reveal something larger. Like, I'm not even sure why it is that I'm a no.

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You just actually gave me a fantastic idea. I just had a huge epiphany. after 30 years of being with you.

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Amen.

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And it goes down to a deeper issue, which is how do you and your partner solve problems? I am the kind of person that is extraordinarily decisive because the unknown feels scary to me. And I create certainty and I solve problems by just making a decision. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Correct.

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You, though, are the kind of person that stops and thinks. So I step the gas, you tap the brakes. And if you call me a yes and I call you a no, that's where that sort of house divided thing happens. And our kids use us to their advantage nonstop. They know that crack is there. Here's the breakthrough I just had.

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Not just our kids, all kids.

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But here's the breakthrough I just had. There's a tool that you could use if this is you and your partner and it's not yes or no, it's maybe. That when you get asked a question by one of your kids and your spouse is not there or you haven't had, as Chris calls it, your three-minute discussion about the deeper issue, say maybe. Say maybe. Because maybe isn't a yes or a no.

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It's a recognition that I got to talk to your mom or dad. Because you're right. I don't know why I said yes. And you don't know why you said no. But we get caught in this. And I'll give you another example. There was a period in our life where two of our kids had just extraordinarily acute anxiety to the point where they couldn't sleep in their rooms. And we're talking sixth grade? That late?

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Fourth grade, sixth grade? Somewhere in the sixth to fourth grade zone.

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Whether you're in a relationship right now, whether you've just started, whether you've been together for a long time, whether you've just broken up, There is so much that you're going to get out of this conversation. And I'm absolutely thrilled to be here with you. And by the way, if you love this format, you ask the questions, I deliver the answers. Let me know and we'll keep on doing it.

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I'm telling you, there was for three years a train of pitter-pattering feet that would come into our bedroom at night. And we're talking late into elementary school here. They had already been sleeping through the night and then all of a sudden anxiety hits and they'd come to my side of the bed because Chris is a no and I'm a yes and I would just lift up the sheets and they'd roll right in.

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And it ultimately got to the point where Chris and I did have that three minute conversation. How do we wanna handle this? What are we gonna do? And neither one of us wanted to actually do what we should have done, which is march them back upstairs every single night. sit with them until they go to sleep, and then go back down. So we just ended up making a bed on the floor of our room.

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And if they came down, that was our rule. You can't get in bed with us, but you can sleep right there. And that is not parenting advice that I would recommend. I would recommend listening to a parenting expert. But we got on the same page because we had the deeper conversation. And we looked at the options and we made a decision.

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We weren't willing to interrupt our sleep at that period in our lives to do the parenting that was necessary to walk them back up and force them to tolerate the discomfort and learn how to fall back asleep again. Okay, so let's take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. But don't you dare go anywhere.

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We have so many more questions to answer that have been submitted by your fellow listeners from around the world. So stay with us. Chris and I are going to be back to spend some time together with you after this short break. Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. I'm here with my husband, Chris, today, and we are answering your questions. So let's jump into the next one. Lauren.

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Hey, Mel and Chris, you guys have been together for a long time. How do you both manage to keep your individuality and personal interests alive while being in such a close marriage? I sometimes feel like I'm losing myself in my marriage. You want to take that or you want me to?

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No, let me hear what you have to say to that.

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I don't think this is a marriage problem. I think it's a you problem. There is no reason why you should lose your identity to your marriage. In fact, the single best way to grow your marriage is to grow yourself. And if you feel like you're losing yourself in your marriage, that is a massive wake-up call that your purpose for the next six months needs to be bettering yourself.

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Whatever it takes to either improve your health or improve your happiness or improve your sleep or carve out time to be creative again, to learn something new again, that's not your marriage's issue. It's yours. And your marriage will get way better when you start to focus on becoming a better version of yourself. Anything you'd add?

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Yeah, just that, I mean, it's an excellent point and question when I think about even a lot of the men that I have spent time with who...

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Here comes Chris. So let's get going. Hey, honey.

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Can you give everybody a little, what do you mean men you've spent time with?

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I host a men's retreat called Soul Degree where a couple times a year, 12 of us circle up in a remote location and spend five days together. diving into the things that matter. And often one of those conversations revolves around our own needs and identifying our needs.

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And even to the point where there are men who haven't taken the time to even identify what might be, let's say, a hobby that actually fuels them.

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Thanks for the invitation. I'm excited.

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And so this concept of keeping your individuality and your personal interests alive and looking after you is not always so intuitive for people to be able to actually zoom out and say, okay, yeah, even if they're not thinking about how do I remain individual in my relationship,

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Okay. So, Chris, I've got a ton of questions from listeners of the podcast who have written in, and I'm just going to read them, and then we're going to tackle them, okay?

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It's the zoom out and sort of seeing or taking the time to determine these are things that I need for myself, which will naturally foster that sense of chasing your own interest.

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Well, what ends up happening if you don't do what Chris is telling you to do, which is maybe you've never even asked yourself, what do I need? What am I interested in? what are some things that I want to do with my life? Because this may be a newsflash to you, but you were not put on this planet to just be somebody's spouse.

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And if you don't have a purpose for yourself, you will resent your marriage because you'll blame your marriage for the fact that you don't have a purpose that is individual. And if you don't know what that purpose is, I will tell you what it is. It's

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making yourself your purpose improving yourself investing in yourself forming better habits taking a class spending time with your friends if you make bettering yourself your sole purpose for the next six months it will improve your marriage because you'll stop looking at your marriage as the solution to your unhappiness and you'll see that you are always the source

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of your happiness, that you are the solution to any problem that you face. And when you get happier and when you grow, you then bring all that back into the marriage.

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The guys out there are like, oh, okay, so now I should just go play 72 holes of golf.

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Yeah, within reason. Within reason, I was thinking. But here's the difference. That doesn't mean pack up your golf bags and drive away for the weekend. It means sitting down with your partner and going, I've realized something. I've really lost myself in my role as a spouse and as a parent.

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And I, in the next six months, am gonna do some work to try to improve myself and focus a little bit on my health and my happiness. And I wanna do that because I want our relationship to get better. And one thing that I've really missed is being able to play golf on the weekends with my friends. I'm lonely. Would it be okay if I take off Saturday and I'm gone all day?

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All right. Question number one comes from Rachel. Hi, I love that you both are always growing as individuals. I sometimes feel like I'm working on myself, but my partner isn't as focused on personal growth. How do you two balance working on yourselves individually while also nurturing your relationship together? You want to go first?

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And I go, your spouse would be like, oh my God, please, because you're driving me crazy and you're sad and I would love to see you happy again. But there's that consideration of once you understand your needs, communicate, communicate. All right, here's a great question from Anna. Hey, Mal and Chris, I feel like unmet expectations in my relationship often lead to resentment.

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which is hard to shake. How do you guys handle disappointments or unmet expectations with each other without letting them build into something bigger? Well, I love this question. Unmet expectations, they rise in all forms. It could be feeling like the amount of effort that you're both putting in isn't equal

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It might be expectations about money and how much you're contributing financially or whether or not you're ambitious and going after it or going after that bigger job. It might be something that we've struggled with, which is this kind of disconnect on birthdays and celebrating and holidays. And for me... Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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No.

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Hey, you're stalling, aren't you, to think of an answer? All right, I'll go first. Okay.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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This is the million-dollar question for many people.

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Why is this a million-dollar question?

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Because it points to a potential fork in the road where somebody is growing and somebody has outwardly chosen not to.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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That's true. I am going to attack this two ways. The first thing I'm going to say is this. I once heard someone say the secret to a happy marriage is to marry someone who's happy. And the truth is you cannot make another human being happy. You can make them a cup of coffee. You can make some reservations. You can make the bed that you both sleep in, but you cannot make someone else happy.

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Thank you.

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You can also not change somebody or force someone to grow. And the best thing that you can do for your relationship is to stop focusing on what your partner is doing and focus on taking the actions that make you a better person, that make you a happier person. Invest in your own growth because when you do that, you naturally bring it back to the relationship.

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You just plan the trip and pick the dates. They take care of everything. It's all done for you. You don't have to worry about the dinner reservations or the car rentals or the headaches of trying to get yourself from one place to the other. You could just have fun and enjoy the person you love as you explore an amazing new place. That's what Celebrity Cruises is all about.

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A travel experience unlike any other. Learn more at CelebrityCruises.com. Visit Celebrity.com for details. Ships registry Malta and Ecuador.

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And if you're with somebody who is not growing and you are growing, there will come a time where there's a fork in the road because you're going to start to probably resent the fact or judge the other person for the fact that they're not doing the work that you're doing.

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And so in just a minute, Chris is gonna join me and we're gonna be answering your questions. talking about everything from how to handle resentment that's been simmering, to dealing with unmet expectations, to navigating family pressures and opinions, to what to do when one of you is changing and the other one isn't. And trust me when I say, Chris and I are getting real. Nothing is off limits.

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And interestingly, this is an entire section of the Let Them Theory book, an entire section, because there is a fundamental fact about human behavior, and it's this. People only change when they feel like it. And when you pressure another person to change or to grow in the ways that you are, your pressure doesn't create change, it creates resistance to change.

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And so you're right, Chris, this is a conundrum because the fork in the road is actually very simple. As you grow, if your partner isn't, there will come a time where you're not gonna question your commitment, you're gonna question your compatibility.

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And you're going to start to ask yourself, can I be in a relationship with someone who is exactly as they are and not willing to lean into life and grow? So think about it as two separate things. You should always, always, always be investing in your own growth and your own happiness because the happier you are, the more happiness you're going to bring into your relationship.

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But there may come a time where you start to question whether or not you're compatible. And that's a completely different thing.

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I struggle with that because that does not actually, I don't see a difference between that and compatibility. Because if you're committed to growth and development and you demonstrate that through your own actions and you have the experience that your partner has,

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is not inspired by his or her own growth or development, and your actions are not rubbing off on that person, that points to a lack of compatibility.

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Well, there's two things that may be at play. And this is why I would encourage you, if you're sitting here going, this is becoming a lack of compatibility. Have you even had the conversation? Have you sat down and talked about how their lack of interest in their own growth is impacting you? And if you haven't had the conversation, you need to.

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And you need to come at it from how it impacts you emotionally, how it makes you feel like you're not being supported, how you may be worried about them. The second thing I want you to understand is that when a person in a relationship starts to change and grow, it is extraordinarily confronting and scary to their partner.

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And I want to share a personal story from our relationship that will really illustrate the reason why you have to have a conversation about what is really going on in terms of how your partner is perceiving all of your growth and change. So a couple years ago, you decided, Chris, that you were going to just stop drinking.

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And when you said you were going to stop drinking, which is an incredible form of personal growth, And it's a big change, positive change to make in your life. I was like, yay you. Go be better. I love that for you. You are drinking too much. You're exactly right. And you never, ever, ever, shamed me or made a request of me to stop drinking. You chose to do that for your growth.

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And whether you're in a relationship, you're single, you're breaking up, you're not, you're working on one, you feel like you're roommates, you're in a situationship, I'm going to tell you something. There is something in these questions and in our answers and what we're going to share today that is exactly what you need to hear. So without further ado, we're getting raw, we're getting real.

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And I think that's an important point. He wasn't doing it for me. He was doing it for himself because adults change when they feel like changing and they change for themselves. So fast forward a couple of days, Chris is not drinking at all. And you are the least dramatic person I know. You never complained. You never had a fuss about it. You just quietly, consistently showed up for yourself.

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So I'd say it was about the fourth day. I'm cooking dinner and I open up the fridge and I open up a bottle of wine because I love cooking dinner and I love cooking dinner with a glass of wine in my hand. And you walk in and I'm like, hey, would you like a glass of wine? And you said no. And I was like, oh, come on. It's just a glass of wine. And you're like, Mel, I'm not drinking.

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And then I'm like, well, it's kind of just like juice. And you didn't think that was funny. And as I tell the story, I realized I look like a complete monster and jerk because I am now not only making a joke about what you're trying to do, I'm actively undermining the change you're trying to make. And I'll never forget this.

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You looked me square in the eye, Chris, and you said, do you remember what you said?

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No.

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You don't? This changed my life, what you said.

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I got a couple of things you've said to me that have changed my life and you probably don't even know it yourself.

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That's true. I've never thought about that. But this is what you said. You said, Mel, no one cares what's in your glass but you. Stop asking me if I want to have a drink. I have told you I am not drinking. And I think I was like, okay, okay, well, I just feel kind of weird like having a glass of wine alone.

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And you said, if you're self-conscious about what's in your glass, then you should be looking in the mirror and asking yourself why. And the point of this story is that when someone that you love changes, you in your mind understand that that's good. But as you see the person changing and growing and getting better, it forces you to take a look at your own behavior.

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And that is extraordinarily confronting. And I want you to understand this because your partner may want to grow, but they may be stuck in that mode where they don't feel like doing it yet. Any pressure, any shame, it is 1000% going to push them away from you. And Chris did the best thing in the world. Chris just carried on and you focused on what you wanted to change.

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And I'm going to tell you something. Your partner's behavior influences you. I said you cannot force someone else to change. I never said you couldn't influence them. Every time you wake up and you roll out of bed an hour and a half earlier than I do, I hear you get up and it makes me think I should do that. Every time you go and you take the dogs on a loop, I think I should do that.

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It is relationship time today on the Mel Robbins Podcast. One of the most important relationships in your life is the one that you have with your partner. I guarantee you there is so much more excitement waiting for you both.

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And that's exactly what your partner is thinking, whether they're telling you that or not. And when you said, Chris, that it is a compatibility issue, it's true. At some point, if your partner doesn't ever feel like changing, like let's say you get sober and you don't, it's just not gonna work for you. It's a deal breaker to be with somebody who drinks. That's okay.

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Only you know if you're in a situation based on your growth and your partner's lack of growth, if you've gotten to a point where the road forks and this is a deal breaker. And here's how you can tell if it's a deal breaker because I wrote an entire section about all this in the Let Them Theory.

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If the person never changes, they keep drinking, they never take care of their health, they never address the depression, They never speak to you kindly. Can you continue to choose them and love them as they are? And the only way that you're going to be able to answer that question is can you end your complaining about it? If you can't end your complaining, this is a deal breaker.

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And based on the research in the Let Them Theory book, deal breakers are things that make you give up on your dreams and your values. But the vast majority of stuff that people kind of are frustrated about are not deal breakers at all. They're just differences in what people prioritize in their life. Is there anything else you want to add?

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I just want to speak to anybody who might be on the other side who has not embarked on some of these changes, growth choices, what have you, because I think that when you are in a relationship where somebody takes off, it's easy to sometimes conclude that, well, nothing I can do to catch up, throw my arms up. Nah, I don't need to go learn that or try this new thing or I can't.

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And I would just say to those people, there is always a perfect time to make that choice, regardless of what your significant other may or may not have done.

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This would be the perfect episode to send to your partner and open up this conversation. Because what I've found is that people also tend to change when they're given the space to come to their own conclusions and feel like this was their decision, not their partner's decision.

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And I have something very simple and surprising that I want to share with you thanks to Celebrity Cruises because they've sponsored this awesome and amazing bonus segment at the end of the episode. So listen all the way to the end and I'll see you there. You can learn more at CelebrityCruises.com. Visit Celebrity.com for details. Ships registry Malta and Ecuador. Hey, it's your friend Mel.

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And this is super important because the other thing that happens is you start to feel like there's something wrong with you. Which means you're going to want to defend yourself if you feel like somebody's trying to change you. It's part of human wiring. And so just to kind of close the loop on this, it is so great that you're growing. You have to have the conversation about how your partner feels.

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And how their lack of interest in this is making you feel. And once you have that conversation and you also affirm that you love this person and you accept them as they are and you apologize for pressuring them and you ask for what you need for support, back off. Back off. You have to give someone else the space to work through their stuff and come to their own conclusions.

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And you'll know when you get to the point where it's a fork in the road and you're like, I don't know if I can be with somebody who's like this. And that's when you're at the point where you're like, is this a deal breaker for me? And only you know that. Ready for the next one? All right, Mark. Chris, you take the next one.

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Yeah. Hey, Mel. Society and even family sometimes seems to put a lot of pressure on my marriage in ways I wasn't expecting. How do you and Chris deal with outside pressures like societal expectations or family opinions that might impact your relationship?

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Mark, I got a quote for you. A house divided cannot stand. What does that mean? It means pressure from the outside cannot tear you and your partner apart. It's the cracks from within your relationship that do that. So if outside pressure or family's opinions are getting to you and your spouse, that tells me that you two are not on the same page.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Science of Well-Being: Powerful Happiness Hacks That 5 Million People Are Using

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh boy, you ready? You better believe you are because today you are getting the ultimate crash course in happiness from the professor who created the single most popular course taught in college in over 300 years at Yale. It's called The Psychology of a Good Life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Science of Well-Being: Powerful Happiness Hacks That 5 Million People Are Using

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I am so excited to learn from you. And I think probably the best place to start, you've talked about happiness with your life and happiness in your life, but what is the definition of happiness?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love that definition. I do because I, again, I'm gonna reveal why I make myself miserable. It's because I immediately went like, oh, okay, so this is something I can do. I can literally like figure out how to be happy with my life and I can figure out how to be happy in my life and I can get my little checklist out and then I can go, go, go, go, go. So it felt more like- It's doable.

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I'm so happy you hit play on the conversation today. First of all, it's always such an honor to be able to spend time with you and to be together. And if you're brand new, I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And you have picked one amazing episode to hit play on. And it tells me something about you.

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It's like a checklistable thing. Yes, because I'm starting to really wonder Is it really more of a skill to learn how to be happy with and in your life?

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Well, one of the things that you teach in your course is that we're not wired for happiness.

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Or if you walk into a cafeteria at a college or at work, you're going to notice that everybody already has a friend to sit with but you.

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It tells you that you're the type of person who not only values your time, but you're also interested in learning about ways that you can be happier. And I am really fired up for today's episode because I've brought in the best of the best. Someone who's going to guide you toward a happier life using the exact steps and research that will boost your happiness day to day.

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Well, it kind of makes sense because if we were to like time travel back several thousand years and we're sitting out there on the Savannah or wherever, if you and I are sitting there playing cards all day long, having fun, like cracking jokes, we're not going to eat.

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So it sounds like because our brains are wired to keep us alive, that mandate has kind of spiraled out of control in modern life.

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And especially when you think about things like social media, or you think about just how much information is out there about what other people are doing, you're probably now defaulting to paying attention to that instead of just paying attention to what's right in front of your face in terms of how to be happy with and in your life.

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So if you were to speak directly to the person that's with us right now listening, what is it that they probably have wrong about happiness or the misconceptions that they have that are leaving them feeling unhappy? It's almost like when you understand this thing, it's actually going to help you when you realize that there's this thing you have wrong about happiness. That's right.

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I mean, I'd rather stop doing things because it feels easier. to start doing a whole lot of things. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

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Now I'm unhappy.

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That's great. Because I was just sitting there when you were talking about Debbie Downer, and I was thinking about my husband, Chris. Now, his name is Christopher.

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Yeah, well, his name's Christopher Robbins, like from Winnie the Pooh. And so in a not so nice way, he's always kind of been the Eeyore of our family. You know, just kind of, ooh. But it's because he's quiet. And I'm the Tigger bouncing all over the place. But I think he has probably had a higher level of happiness with and in his life. He's just not outwardly expressing it.

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Whereas I'm all over the place.

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Dr. Lori Santos is in our Boston studios. She is a cognitive scientist and professor at Yale who teaches the single most popular course that has been taught at Yale in 300 years. It's a course she created called The Psychology of a Good Life. It's so popular that 1200 students signed up within three days of it being announced.

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empowering is to know that you don't have to change your circumstances to boost your ability to feel happier.

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Let's talk about money though, because you have some foundational and very interesting research about money, at least in the United States. And I would love for you to share a little bit about that.

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Now, Dr. Santos has spent her entire career researching what truly makes you happy. And she has one of the most popular podcasts on the topic. It's called The Happiness Lab. And I personally, I love her research. I have used it. I've cited it. I've written about it. I've even taught it in online courses that I teach and in the work that I do with some of the world's leading global brands.

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I'm so glad that we're talking about this because I do think this is one of the major mistakes I've made in my life. Totally. That I think that if I can buy something or if I make more money or if I just have this much in savings, that somehow it's going to just automatically boost happiness. And it's true. It hasn't.

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And I will also say, though, that when I think about the times in my life where I have been struggling profoundly financially, like really struggling to get groceries on the table, having my bank card bounce at the gas station, trying to fill up the car, right? We've all been there. That there is a certain kind of cruel and relentless stress that you feel

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when you can't take care of your basic needs that does interfere with your ability to be happy with where you are in your life and Because I was constantly worried about it, which meant I had no time, which meant I didn't enjoy where I was at, which meant I was focused on survival.

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And so is that the reason why the monetary figure really, if you can take care of things so that you can get through your day-to-day life and take care of yourself... It lowers stress, and that's why it makes happiness available to you.

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That's how powerful her work is. And you're going to feel that power today. And that's why you can hear your friend Mel just bubbling over. That's why I can't wait for you and for the people that you love and for me to learn absolutely everything that she has to share with us today. So please help me welcome Dr. Lori Santos to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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Well, I was going to say, Dr. Santos, it's very petty of me to say this, but I'm like, good. I'm glad you're unhappy. Like, I literally, I don't mean, like, I hate that I had that reaction, but I'm like, I'm glad you're freaking unhappy if you have a yacht. Like, screw you. Like, and now I'm like, I'm a terrible person.

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Of course, I'm mad that my husband is making me get up and move my 1987 Toyota Corolla to the other side of the street so that the street sweeper is coming through and we don't get towed. Right. And to somebody who's...

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Yes, it's called my waistline.

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You know, you said something earlier though that gave me this epiphany. Because you were talking about how when you're really struggling and you think, okay, money's going to make me happier because money is going to help me pay my bills. So yes, that's true because we're lowering stress. But then you said something interesting.

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You said, and maybe I'll be able to take a little vacation with my family. And what occurred to me is that The thing that a vacation does with your family is it gives you time with them. Correct. Yep.

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And so I think maybe one of the mistakes that we're making is that we think money gives us the thing that actually makes us happy, which is more time with people we care about or more time to feel less stressed. And... Is that kind of where this is going?

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Professor Santos, I am so fired up that you're here. I can't wait to jump in. And I want to just say one thing. We're here in our Boston studios, and I don't know if they've changed the flight pass for Logan Airport, but there are airplanes outside. There's construction down the street.

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Exactly. Or just like Dropping off some laundry at a local laundromat to wash and fold it for you. And I think if you can shop on Amazon and you're hitting the shop now button on Instagram or social media, that's discretionary income.

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So if you are hanging with me and Dr. Santos today and you hear a little beeping or you hear a plane, just know we're all on this walk together. So with that, Dr. Lori Santos, Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Oh, I'm thrilled that we've got you here in our studios.

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It is my favorite egg sandwich on the planet with that mustardy aioli and the arugula and that bacon.

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You know what else I also love about this is that you just did something really important. Which is you put value on your time. And what we've been doing wrong is we've been putting all the value on the thing.

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And I'm like just looking around the studio being like, this is Mel's studio, so cool. And you're in it. I'm in it right now. Well, you're so busy, so thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time to be with us. And we're going to cover a lot.

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And this is somebody who is studying to be a priest.

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Let's just be honest. If you fail this... You should get kicked out of seminary school. That's basically what I'm going to say there.

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I look, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm like, wait, landfill, recycled, which, if there's an egg on it, do I put it?

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So there is good news. The tire is flat. Now I'm leaky. Dr. Santos, how do I be happy?

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It's 26 lectures long and it's all about what truly makes you happy. Well, today on the Mel Robbins podcast, class is in session and Professor Lori Santos is here to distill her 26 lessons on the surprising science of happiness into an hour that is packed with so many tools that you can start using today to be happier. But I'm going to warn you, Professor Santos begins class with a bombshell.

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And I just want to tell you, as you're listening and you've invited Dr. Santos and I in the car with you or on your walk with you, that there is so much that she's going to unpack for you about happiness, from the things that we get wrong about it to the ways our brains are working against us, to most importantly...

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Let's do that.

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So let's fill up the leaky tire. We're going to take our time confetti five, five minutes at a time. And we are going to start rewiring our brain for happiness. Dr. Santos, I really want to dig into this more with you, but I need to take a short break. So let's take a moment and hear a word from our sponsors. And when we come back, we're going to be diving right back in. So don't go anywhere.

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Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to spend time learning about the simple things that we can do to make ourselves a little bit happier every day. And so Dr. Santos, in the course, you teach five ways to rewire yourself for happiness and fill up this tire. So what's the first way that you can rewire your mind for happiness?

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Oh, I know this study where he forces people to talk to strangers on the train and to work.

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Because that, now notice my reaction. And as you're with Dr. Santos and I, you probably had the same reaction as you're listening to us. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't do that for a $5 Starbucks gift card.

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But I think the important thing here is that our reaction is that this is not going to be fun. Correct. And our reaction is so much so I don't want a gift card to do that. Yeah. And so we all would go into that situation and, and say, ooh, but what did the research find?

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I don't know how you're going to do this, woman, but you're going to condense the most popular course literally ever taught on happiness into this conversation with key takeaways. And I understand you also have homework for us. Yeah, sorry.

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You know, I do think it's a skill to just learn how to talk to people. And the fastest way that I've taught myself how to do it. And again, I've been doing this now for decades because I get very anxious when I feel lonely.

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You do this for a living, right? Well, yeah. And I also do this to make my life better. So saying hello, like, hey, good morning, you know, to the person who I am, like, let's say we're ordering an egg sandwich. As a person's ringing me up, I'm like, hey, how you doing? And most people kind of look at you like, oh, hi. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I love your nails. And oh, well, thank you.

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And a compliment. Yes, huge. And a smile. Like what I find is it's almost like popcorn. If I walk in and I'm a pop kernel, and I'm warm, there's something about complimenting somebody's socks or complimenting their nails or being like, even if they serve you the cup of coffee, you're like, oh my gosh, that's so beautiful. Thank you. Oh, I really needed this.

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There's something about your warmth that always gets returned. And then I feel lifted by that interaction and it helps me.

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I would love for you to speak directly to the person that is with us right now and listening and share with them what they might experience that could be different about their life if they take everything that you're about to share to heart and they apply it.

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Absolutely. So the first takeaway I absolutely love and the tool for me, nobody waves, but everybody waves back. So always be the person who waves. Yeah. I love that. What is the second way we can rewire our brains for happiness?

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Well, I... Had a little bit of a moment when you said, spend your money and time on other people. I'm like, but Dr. Santos, I don't have any time for myself. Yeah. So why the hell am I going to give my money and my time to somebody else? My kids are draining me dry. I'm giving my time to my work. So now you're telling me I got to be other oriented?

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Yeah.

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Give me a break. Like my gas is leaking here out of this tire. What do I do?

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It means you have more time because you're not rushing through it.

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Dr. Santos, this is so interesting. I've never really heard somebody break it down like this. So thank you, thank you, thank you. This feels like a really great moment to just take a beat, let everything that you're teaching us settle in. While you're listening to a few words from our amazing sponsors, take a minute and share this with somebody.

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I mean, we're talking a lot about happiness and there's no doubt that the people that you care about in your life, they deserve to be happier and they need this information too. And don't go anywhere because when we return, we're going to dig in even deeper. You do not want to miss this and we're going to be waiting for you when we come back. Stay with me. Welcome back.

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It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today, you and I are spending time together with the amazing Dr. Lori Santos. She teaches the single most popular course ever taught in college on the surprising science of happiness. And we are in for a master class. So, Dr. Santos, the second thing... that rewires your brain is this sort of real focus on other people.

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And, you know, when I think about some of the research that you mentioned earlier, especially around loneliness and it doubling and just how it's true, everybody seems to feel very lonely right now.

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So does your... on sort of these small social interactions and these small ways to be more outwardly focused and kinder to other people, which is going to boost your happiness. It's also going to deceive you into thinking you have more time because you're really taking the time to do this. Does it also have an impact on your feelings of loneliness?

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And better yet, share them this episode and let's talk about it. Like it's something that you can talk about. I think a lot about this because, you know, I think about the rise in loneliness and I look what's happening in the world. And there's absolutely zero doubt that every single human being that has a smartphone is addicted to it.

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And everybody has way more time than they think, but they're pouring it into social media and they're pouring it into just being online and doom scrolling. I get really scared because what I see happening down on the street in our day-to-day lives and in my life and in my family is we're now living... life connected to our phone.

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And then I see society trying to address what is clearly the problem. Like I just saw some country name some minister of loneliness and I see, you know, courses filling up about happiness and, but we're all in it and addicted to it that you don't even see that you're in it and how much it's killing your joy and your ability to connect. And I think you can reclaim your life and your happiness. Um,

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one of these micro interactions at a time that have you look up and smile at somebody or hold the door or compliment someone. Or, you know, if you're on the phone, send the text instead of staring at an influencer that's trying to sell you something. I mean, it's just... It's scary to me.

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I just told you. They weren't wired to keep you on it so that people could make more money advertising. And if the algorithms didn't optimize to literally take advantage of your brain wiring to keep you on it and to manipulate you, then yeah.

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It's not even stealing. They're actually designed to.

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Well, it has a direct connection to happiness.

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Well, when somebody does that, and I'm hovering here not because I want to spend too much time talking about the phones, but I think it's extraordinarily important to highlight and to also embrace the truth that if your life feels like you are a tire that is flat and you would like to be happier,

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then there is a direct connection between your unhappiness and your phone use because the phone and the way that you've allowed it to take over your life is interfering with your ability to do these five things. Mm-hmm. in your day-to-day life that actually based on the research will fill up the tire and make you happier in your life and with your life.

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And that's why I want to be very clear that this is a massive problem and you have an opportunity if you're serious about being happy. Like you can spend the rest of your life mainlining social media and staring at other people's lives and then get to your grave and go, oh God, I actually didn't use my time while I was here to do what I needed to do to be happy and to live my life.

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And that's what's happening to the majority of people.

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No, I'm just, like, you're not gonna, like, would you walk around life with an eight ball in your hand?

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And I do think if you're, if you look at the research, and this is, again, why I want to hammer this point, is that I think every one of us is at this really scary tipping point where there's a before and an after.

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And you could hear this episode and decide that you want to be the kind of person that actually happiness is important and taking care of your mental health is important and staying connected to people in a meaningful way and being present for your life is important.

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Can I share something? Please. So when you said five to 15%, my brain was like, well, that's not enough. And I think that's probably relevant to our conversation about happiness. I mean, does that surprise you that I was like 5%?

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And if it is important, you have to be honest with yourself that it will take a decision on your part to go, I'm not giving my life to this phone and to social media. I'm just not doing it.

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And I'm going to follow this advice. Go ahead.

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Well, that kind of brings us to the third way that you're going to build the skill of being happier and boosting happiness in your day-to-day life. And it has to do with what you were just talking about, kind of being present and grateful.

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happiness, to practice and grab these moments And come into the present moment.

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You know, what's interesting is that we always walk to the studio in the morning. Mm-hmm. And I'm almost always with Tracy, who's the executive producer, and Christine, who's our COO if she's in town. And we're never on our phones because our phones are in our bags. And it takes us about 15 minutes to walk over here. And I always feel better. Yeah. I always feel happier. I feel energized.

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And so... It is something that I think we all know works. We wish it were something we could buy because that would feel instant and easier versus what you've been telling us all along that happiness is something that you need to practice. It's a skill. It's something that can start leaking from the tire if you're not paying attention to it.

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But the really good news I'm realizing is that at any moment you can use any of the five things that you're teaching us to rewire our brains and help us boost our happiness. That's right. Now, can you share the third way that we rewire our minds for happiness?

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My favorite way to do this is the weather.

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I always step outside and either remark to myself what a beautiful day it is, or even if it's disgusting and gross and it's raining, I'll remark how wild the clouds look. Yeah. And so I didn't realize that that's what that was, but it hyper focuses me. Mm-hmm. on this thing that's happening that I just take a minute and take in. And I do feel this little like... Yeah.

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Dr. Santos, what's a fifth way that we can rewire our minds for happiness? I mean, there's so many.

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So if you feel like your life is a leaky tire right now.

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I mean, it makes perfect sense. I mean, how could you possibly think you're going to be happy while you're hating on yourself? Exactly. Exactly. And so I think it's important for all of us to also be reminded that you should just assume that everybody that you meet is busy trashing themselves.

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Yeah, I think so. I would love to have you share a little bit about this course that you teach at Yale University. It is the single most popular course taught in over 300 years. It's called The Psychology of a Good Life. Can you tell us a little bit about this course, why you created it, and why the heck is it so popular?

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How does comparison play into happiness and unhappiness?

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Oh, of course. Like I feel like, that never changes. It's just who you're looking at changes. But we tend to be obsessed with, what is it called? Upward comparison, which is somebody that we perceive to be either of higher social status or that has something that we've been trashing ourselves over and then we obsess over that. Well, how the hell? That's clearly draining the tire.

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So how do you stop doing that? Well, I know all five things kind of honestly snap you out of it.

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I'm starting to realize like you have the ability to inflate your tire.

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And you could even ask yourself at any moment, is this going to let the air out or is this actually going to fill me up a little bit? Even if it's just a little boost.

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So for the person that's listening, that... may just feel a little bit of conflict about why this matters. And we do have listeners that are in refugee camps. Yeah. And we do have listeners that are facing extraordinarily difficult situations in the countries that they're living in right now.

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or they're going through just devastating grief or some kind of health scare, or they're just overwhelmed by the state of the world and how depressing things seem. Why does working on your own happiness matter? when it feels like the world around you has such bigger problems.

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Well, I have another reason that I would add to it, and it comes back to your metaphor of the tire, which is so helpful. If you're going through a period in your life where the tire is flat or deflated, it's very hard to move forward. It's very hard to meet the challenges of your life right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And if that's you, the reason why happiness matters is because absolutely every single thing that Dr. Santos just shared with us is a small way to fill the tire up, which means you can be better equipped to roll forward in your own life. And I also understand like a great professor that you give your students happiness homework and

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, why is it so important to give them happiness homework? And what have you found over the years as students have tried to complete this happiness homework?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What is one assignment that you can give to the person listening to take something that we talked about today and go do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Really? And you're married.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah, because I bet... you're going to notice exactly what the research said. The tire inflates a little.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Science of Well-Being: Powerful Happiness Hacks That 5 Million People Are Using

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Dr. Santos, what are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, I just want to thank you for being with us today and sharing everything that you just poured into us. I'm so excited to try it. I'm excited for the person who's listening to us to try it in their life and share it with their friends. I just really appreciate your generosity. And you just have this unbelievable way.

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I feel smarter as I listen to you because you're weaving in so much science, but you do it in a way... that makes me see the study and to understand the research and to feel very convinced that this is going to work. And I just truly appreciate that gift in you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. And it's such a pleasure to always be able to spend this time with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I want to thank you for listening all the way to the end and for taking time. We talked a lot about time when we were learning from Professor Santos. For taking time and spending it on yourself. you deserve to be happier. And so do the people that you love in your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And there is zero doubt in my mind that if you follow the homework and if you really absorb everything that Dr. Santos taught us today and you do it, you will be happier and you deserve it. And one more thing, in case no one else tells you today, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your power to create a better life.

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And learning how to just fill up the tires a little bit to keep you rolling forward, no matter what's going on, that will absolutely make your life a lot better. Alrighty, I'll see you in the very next episode and I'll be waiting for you the moment you hit play.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I like plopped into the YouTube. I mean, I've been digging into your research. I have used it. I have taught it. So to sit with you and be able to learn from you, it's really so exciting. Oh, that means so much. God damn, I love you. Do you like that? That's great. Okay, great.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah, of course.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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No problem, no problem. Patrick, on the move, on the job.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Do you need me to redo anything? No. Was it too long? Do you like it? I liked it. Yeah. Okay. I'll just do that. And I'll be like, you know. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with us today. Such a pleasure.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Anytime. Anytime.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I feel like my tire's full. Definitely. I'm not talking about the one around my waist. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You've got happiness wrong. Everyone does. And today, you're going to learn the surprising science of happiness and how to be happier in five steps. No gimmicks, zero weird tricks, and you need this now more than ever. In a world where so many of you and the people that you love are feeling disconnected, lonely, and really overwhelmed, this conversation is essential.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And as you started to observe this about college students, did you see any correlation when you look around at your friends who are your age, my age, all ages as well in terms of these statistics or just people generally being unhappy?

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I'm glad that you said that because I think that this conversation is going to be incredibly helpful for understanding not only what the teenagers and 20 somethings and early 30 somethings are facing right now, but also what we're all facing. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so whether you're already starting to think about the person in your life who's in their 20s or in college or high school that you're going to share this conversation with, or you're thinking about yourself, like all of the takeaways from the research and the science and the studies that you've been doing are relevant to all of us.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And Dr. Santos is here in our Boston studios to prove to you that you have more control over your happiness than you realize. And by the time we're done talking today, you'll not only know how to feel happier, you'll know exactly what to do to be happier every single day. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love what you just said about joy and positive emotion because I was about to ask you, well, if you're dealing with anxiety or depression or a lack of purpose or you're feeling very lonely, is happiness the anecdote? Is that why this matters so much for all of us?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, hold on. Hold on. So you just said you can be happy in your life and you can also be happy with your life. Holy, I can think of a bazillion moments where I've been

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I just don't want them to run me over. I don't want the negative emotions to feel like that's my whole life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I take it, if you were to just stop and ask yourself, which you really should, am I happy in my life? Yes or no? And then ask yourself, am I happy with my life? That we're about to learn there are kind of different strategies that you can use to bring those numbers up in terms of that 5% to 15% satisfaction that's available to all of us.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So your course, Psychology of a Good Life, has 26 lectures on happiness. Yeah. What do you think the big takeaway for your students has been?

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So for most of my life, you know, I just thought I was bad at focusing. My brain was always racing. I could never sit still. And then I had this like overwhelming feeling that I was constantly behind. It seemed like everybody else had figured out some secret to staying on top of things. And I was the only one who was struggling.

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I think the majority of us spend eight hours tense at work and we don't even realize it. Don't even realize it. That is unbelievable. I'm going to try it. Try it. And it's helpful to hear the physical symptoms because when you watch somebody that you care about who's struggling with it, it's very hard to understand because it doesn't seem to make sense.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I would love to play a video for you because I was so excited when you were coming on and you have a son who's around the same age as our son. So my son's name is Oakley. And this morning when I knew you were coming in, I'm like, you know, he has struggled with anxiety his whole life. And so I am going to ask him because I don't know what to do.

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I know a lot about anxiety, but the way that his manifests is very challenging. And I figured, why not wake him up in his college dorm room and tell him that you're going to be here and ask him if he would like to ask you a question about the issue that he's struggling with. And so we made a video and I would love to play it for you.

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Okay. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Here's Oakley.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Uh, I don't know if it's morning for you, but it's sure morning for me. Nine o'clock for a college student. I just got out of bed like literally 30 seconds ago. Um, I hope you're well, my name's Oakley by the way. I shouldn't forget saying that. I'm my mom's son, Mel Robbins son. I'm not just like some random kid that they're getting a video from. Um, I,

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I have two questions for you and I'm going to keep them super short because you're busy and I don't want to waste your time, but we're already at 30 seconds, so let me get this going. And they're both anxiety. Okay. My first question, basically what happens normally when I get anxious is before I'm even anxious in the first place,

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In my head, I'll start to get this like spinning sensation where it's basically a feeling of nausea. Like I start to get a feeling of nausea. And then from the nausea, I become anxious. And then I'm just like in this state of anxiety and it doesn't go away until I'm not nauseous anymore. But the anxiety I feel like makes it worse. And I'm like, oh, I'm anxious. I'm anxious because I'm nauseous.

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And then it like gets worse. And so I was curious what you might think about that. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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She took a break from her busy schedule to hop on a plane and fly to our Boston studios today for one reason. She is here for you. And let me just tell you, the things that she is going to teach you today will not only blow your mind, they will actually change it for the better. So let's get into it. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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Okay, so explain that because he's actually had things like that happen and so have I. And as you see in the video, He kind of loses his train of thought and looks off to the left and then recenters himself. And so what he's calling nausea or just this sort of lapse in feeling present spirals into something bigger. And so that's kind of common? That's pretty common.

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So the reason why I wanted him to ask that is because I've been trying to help him as his mother. I'm clearly not a psychiatrist, but I've been trying to help him as his mother to untangle the physical sensation from what then happens where he then is like, oh, I'm anxious. And then he gets caught in telling him he's anxious. And I know for me, when I used to experience a lot of anxiety,

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I was so scared of the feeling of being like anxious or being lost in my head or feeling like I was about to get in trouble or that something bad was gonna happen or could have been being afraid of getting on a plane or afraid that something would happen to my parents. Like I could so easily get lost in my thoughts.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And then once I felt anxious, I got then worse because I was afraid of the anxiety. I'll give you a situational one. So yesterday I got an email from a business partner of mine. And it was one of those emails that just makes you go, you know, you just clench because you know that they're pissed at you. And even though I don't feel like I did anything wrong, they're really mad at me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so there's that bracing sensation and bracing when you get an email where somebody's mad at you is a mentally healthy response, right? But the challenge for me is I have a hard time letting go of the worst case scenario in my head. What if this happens? What if they think that? What if I did something really wrong?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What if I did do blah, blah, blah, blah, even though I don't think I did do that? And the getting caught in my head thinking about it then becomes the torture and is probably a hundred times worse than what they're actually miffed about.

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So can you help us understand, however you'd like to use those two examples, what anxiety actually is and what you can do to release yourself from the grip it has on you? Because I think the response happens and that's okay, but it's the grip that it holds on you that becomes problematic. Is that a good way to think about it? Yeah, that is a great way to think about it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Actually, I'm turning right to the page right now. You're the one that, this is the first time I've ever heard of this in my entire life. It is genius. It's on page 248 of your book, Why Am I So Anxious? So why don't you walk us through that?

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I am so excited to be here with you. It is always such an honor to spend time together, to be together, but today in particular, I am fired up for this conversation because it has deeply personal meaning for me. And so I'm glad to be learning together with you. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So in the case that Oakley just talked about, where he gets this sensation in his head, what I read in your book, when you talk about this Again, I want to just give everybody the page number because this is so cool. There's actually a chart for this. I'd never seen this before. It's on page 250, where you say, nausea, spin in a swivel chair for a minute.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What about anxiety that feels like a pit in your stomach? Because I think that's sort of the classic thing that people feel. And I love that we're talking about physical sensations because for most of my anxiety and most of the anxiety that I've experienced with all three of our children, it always does seem to start with something physical in their body, this sense.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So let's talk about the pit in the stomach. What can you do if you have a pit in the stomach every time you walk into work in the morning? A lot of people have that.

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Thrilled that you're here. And because you hit play and found the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You love to learn, you love feeling inspired, and you also want to understand yourself better. And that's exactly what this amazing conversation is going to help you do today.

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Like if we talk about, because I think it would be super helpful for the person listening, to have you describe anxiety in terms of when you're in a calm, resting state, you're okay space. You're not in the what if loop going, what if this happens? What if that happens?

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And then the pit in the stomach and then all of a sudden you think you're going to throw up and then you can't sleep and then you're staring at the ceiling. Yes, I've experienced all of this. Something just happened in your body when that switch flipped. So could you just describe for us what's happening either in your nervous system or digestive tract and why that's happening?

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So that makes perfect sense. And I think we can all imagine you're in a scenario and whether it's just your mother-in-law who you can't stand and they walk in the room and you're like, that's what you're talking about. That your body and nervous system and senses sense a threat. All of a sudden your body steps on the gas. You just mentioned a bunch of chemicals that flood your body.

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Your heart starts racing. Why? Because you know that this person person that you're now related to is about to say something nasty to you about your parenting style. So you're like on edge, you hit the gas, you're ready to go, you're bracing. That is the alarm system designed to protect you.

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But you also then said you have the ability to tap the brakes because when she leaves and you turn to your husband and say, why didn't you defend me? Like, okay, like, well, I'm making a joke about it, but you can take a deep breath and because it's over and you go back into the present. And so it's helpful for me to understand that you have the ability to do these two things.

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And you said earlier that anxiety can be a really good thing because if the alarm goes on and you step on the gas because you want to do well in an interview or you need to protect yourself, then it's working. But the problem becomes, at least this is kind of what I'm hearing, that in the situation that Oakley described,

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And if somebody sent this to you, let me just point out that that's really cool because it means you have people in your life that deeply care about you. And they wanted you to hear something that could potentially make your life better. And that's awesome. And today, the conversation, it's not going to just blow your mind.

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that the second that his brain feels slightly dizzy, he mistakenly steps on the gas and turns the alarm system on. Is that a fair kind of way to describe it? That's very fair. Yes.

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Oh, love that. Yeah, so let me just unpack this because I think that this is really important because I have always hated it. When psychiatrists or psychologists or medical experts have said, well, you know, you're never going to make your anxiety go away. Because I'm like, I want it to go away, Dr. Marks. Like, I don't want to live like this. I don't want to feel like this.

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But in what you just said, you can't actually change anything. the things that are going to be happening around you, whether it's your mother-in-law walking in or your boss's bad mood. And you can't necessarily change the fact that your body is wired to go from that thing to suddenly stepping on the gas. That anxiety response is potentially always going to turn on.

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But what you can control is you can catch it when you feel your body go like that and you step on the gas, you can take your foot off and not accelerate it. That's exactly right. And the reason why that's actually important to me is because I've always focused on never stepping on the gas.

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And so allowing yourself to think about it like, okay, I'm just the kind of person that when I sense a threat or I got to do something, boom, my body steps right on the gas, but I don't have to accelerate this. In fact, I can use the tools that Dr. Marks is going to teach us today to decelerate and then tap the brake. That's exciting. Yes.

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I've been looking at the wrong thing, Dr. Marks, for 56 years.

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I love that because I think the fear of being anxious and the frustration with it makes you just want it to disappear. What you're basically saying is forget about that. Let's just learn how to decelerate.

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It's going to change your mind because we're going to dig into the surprising connection between anxiety ADHD, and symptoms that people with these two conditions experience that you may not be aware of. I certainly wasn't. And more importantly, you're going to get a lot of tools on exactly what to do if this is how you feel or if it's impacting somebody that you care about.

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Okay, great. So for somebody listening who has somebody in their life who is struggling with anxiety, even just the reframe of thinking about this, like, you don't have to get rid of their anxiety. You're going to be a support system for helping them decelerate their response to it. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So let me introduce you to the amazing Dr. Tracy Marks, who is an absolute powerhouse. Dr. Marks graduated from Duke and then got her medical degree from the University of Florida College of Medicine. She did a residency in psychiatry at New York Presbyterian Hospital. She has been a practicing clinical psychiatrist for over 25 years, specializing in anxiety, ADHD, and mood disorders.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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She's also the author of three bestselling books on mental health, including the one I'm holding right now, Why Am I So Anxious? She also has 2 million subscribers on YouTube, making her channel one of the biggest mental health and wellness channels online today.

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Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,

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And the anxiety, oh my gosh. I mean, that was just like a part of who I was, or at least... That's what I thought. It wasn't until I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 47 when everything finally clicked. The fact that three of my kids have also struggled with ADHD and anxiety makes today's conversation even more personal for me.

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Her YouTube videos break down complicated topics like ADHD and anxiety into simple, relatable strategies that help people like you and me who are struggling with ADHD and anxiety learn how to thrive. So without further ado, please help me welcome Dr. Tracy Marks to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Tracy Marks, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thanks for having me here. I am so excited.

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Well, what I love about this is you're starting to really cement this theme. that there are always going to be things in your life that trigger the pit in the stomach or make your heart race or that make you jump up into your head and start going, what if this, what if that, what if they're saying that? That is something that is just what we all need to learn to live with.

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But whether or not you hit the accelerator and you run yourself over and allow anxiety to just flood you is within your control.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, Dr. Marks, Alyssa's question is, about the fear of throwing up and just the idea of it making somebody anxious, we get flooded in the inbox with questions about this. Based on your 25 years of clinical experience as a psychiatrist, what are mind tools, body tools, and behavior tools that you can use to help yourself manage anxiety?

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I am so excited to sit down and talk with you. Why am I so anxious? This is a fantastic book. But more importantly, you know what it is? It is a resource. When I was flipping through this, I cannot believe how many tools, how much research, how many different... just strategies that you put together for people.

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So you're basically saying if you're somebody that has a fear of throwing up, you can have that fear and still get on the plane. You can have that fear and learn how to go to the networking meeting. You can have that fear and do a sleepover or go to work or because the fear may never go away.

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But you can learn how not to accelerate in those situations where you notice you're a little worried about it. Is that a fair way to say it?

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You know, I recently started thinking about anxiety as a moment where there's something that you fear or you're uncertain, and then you doubt your capacity to handle it. And I'd love to hear you reflect on that.

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So thank you, thank you, thank you for writing such a fantastic book that I'm sure is helping millions of people.

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So eating too much sugar and ultra-processed foods actually increases your anxiety? Yes. Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Got it. It's almost like, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about how much sense that makes because if you don't get the rest you need and you wake up weary, everything around you is going to feel like a threat. That's right. And what was the third one?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Okay, so how does not exercising make you more anxious?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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But it made me smarter about anxiety for sure. Excellent. Goal achieved.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So I would love to start by having you speak directly to the person that is listening, that's spending time together with us right now, and just explain what might be different about their life or the life of somebody that they care about if they take everything that you're about to share with us today to heart and they apply it to their life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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You know, this feels like a good moment to hit the pause button because there's someone in my life that I actually want to share what you just said with. And so I want to give you, as you've been listening to Dr. Marks, a chance to share this information and this conversation with people that you care about. I also want to give our sponsors a chance to share a few words. Don't go anywhere.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Dr. Marks and I will be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are learning from Dr. Tracy Marks. We're learning about the connection between anxiety and ADHD. Thank you for being here and listening to this. Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Now, Dr. Marks, one thing that I'd love to talk to you about is the connection between ADHD and anxiety seem to be this thing that goes hand in hand. And I remember when Our son Oakley was in the fourth grade. He came home from school and he had these like bruises on his hands. And I was so upset because I thought he had gotten into a fight at school. And I asked him, Oak, like what happened?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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What happened? And he couldn't remember. Well, long story short, It turns out that he had undiagnosed dyslexia, dysgraphia, and ADHD, and it was now the fourth grade, and so everything was crashing around him, and he was apparently sitting in class wringing his hands to the point where he had bruised his own hands. And when we took them in to see a doctor, they were saying, oh, it's anxiety.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And that's what got diagnosed first. And then when we went and got all kinds of evaluations done, it turned out there were lots of other things going on. And if I look at my own history, I was diagnosed with anxiety in my high school years. And the underlying issue, I believe, was undiagnosed ADHD.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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I was treated for anxiety for decades, and it wasn't until I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 47, like the majority of women are when their kids are going through the diagnosis, and you start to go, well, that seems very familiar. that seeing the issue of ADHD for the first time was absolutely life-changing and helped me personally separate those two things.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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But when I think about anybody that I know that has ADHD, they always talk about anxiety and vice versa. And so what is the connection between these two things?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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It's sort of like its own type of performance anxiety.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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You know what? I used to beat myself up chronically because I constantly forgot people's birthdays. But I resonate with that because when you have trouble directing your attention and staying on top of details, you do feel like you're not on top of things. You do feel like you're screwing up. And it does create this sense that there's something wrong with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Did my husband call you before this and ask you to have an intervention with me, Dr. Marks?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Well, that explains a lot. It explains a lot. So are people that have ADHD tend to be more emotional? Emotional, yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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That makes so much sense. So what are the key differences between Between ADHD versus anxiety, because I've, you know, I've heard ADHD described as you mentioned the prefrontal cortex and executive functioning. It's like the conductor in the brain that is basically going tap, tap, tap a string session. Like you guys. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And then lifting up this group over here, the percussion, you can come on now. The ability to kind of direct your attention, that switching feature doesn't really work that well.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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I can't believe we're talking about this because I learned for the first time last week, talking to my therapist, who's changed my life, shout out Ann Davin, where she was basically saying there's a huge connection between ADHD and actual rumination and spiraling thoughts because you can't pull your attention off ADHD. of the worst case scenario.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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You know, I mentioned earlier getting this email from somebody who's miffed at me about something, and I bet I probably wasted three hours because I could not direct my attention to something else. I would try to, and I'd be like, nope, let's think about that over here. And so that makes so much sense why these are so related to one another.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Now, you have been a psychiatrist for 25 years, and there are a number of topics that I cannot wait to jump in and just really unpack with you. And in particular, what I'm excited to talk about is anxiety And then to get into its connection with ADHD and other symptoms that people may be feeling that they don't realize are related.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Dr. Marks, do you have any thoughts on what seems like a huge surge of people getting diagnosed later in life with ADHD, which was the case for me and a lot of my female friends?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Right, right. Or everybody's distracted. You don't have ADHD. That's what I hear a lot. Like, can you explain, and I think it would be helpful, to really just put the nail in the coffin on this one, because there is sort of that eye roll. Oh, you have ADHD too? Everybody's distracted.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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There's a big difference between just being distracted because of the world that we live in versus what it actually feels like day to day to be somebody that does have ADHD as a diagnosed condition that you're dealing with or an undiagnosed condition that you don't know that you're dealing with.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So can you walk us through what a day might look like for somebody who is going through their day and they may not realize they have ADHD?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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You're sitting here as a psychiatrist telling me that you don't like the diagnosis that you have been given because you look at your husband and your son and are like, I'm not like those losers. I knew I loved you. Oh my God, Dr. Marks. But even though you've been diagnosed with it, you're like, I can't possibly have that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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What are you seeing in your practice and with the millions of people that follow you online? What are you seeing in terms of the type of anxiety that people are struggling with? And what do you think we should know?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Oh my God, I say this to my team all the time. I'm like, if we are going to do a production day, I will tape for nine hours straight. But the second you put me in a meeting and I have to look at copy or if I have to change something on my phone, you call this set switching? Yes. And I go into a different mode, I can't go back to taping.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Do you actually get anything done? Like I get something done for like the first hour and then I'm realizing I have a Zoom call and I get nothing else done.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And does that have to do with the dopamine and the prefrontal cortex being able to direct different parts? Is that what that is? That's what that is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Okay, so I want to see if I can unpack this. So your brain needs stimulation to pay attention if you're somebody that truly struggles with this issue of ADHD. And so I'm thinking about the example that absolutely all of us can relate to, where you have somebody in your life who can literally rot away in front of a video game for two days.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And you walk into the room and they don't even break their stare. They're so hyper-focused. But then getting them to put their dirty clothes in the laundry basket or remember to do the homework or shut the refrigerator door or put their shoes somewhere other than the middle of the hallway it's just, you don't even understand why they're like this because you've seen them focus on something.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So that must mean they're just a world-class jerk in every other area of their life because you're not seeing that level of attention to detail in other areas. And so we presume that the person doesn't care or that they're rude or that they're aloof. And what you're saying is, No, no, no, no, no. The ADHD brain really requires some form of stimulation. Is that where the dopamine comes in?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Well, you know, what's interesting is that this makes sense because, you know, if I think about what I've heard a lot of people say and what I've struggled with is is like if you literally wake up in the morning if you have ADHD and you grab your phone and then you look at social media, you've just flushed your dopamine that you needed for the attention during the day right down the toilet.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And now you're going to struggle to gain it back because you wasted it on something really stupid. And understanding that you need that dopamine to focus, that's a really important thing to understand.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And also because if they've also blasted through their dopamine by being on social media first thing or playing video games or whatever, they don't have the stimulation that they need in order to focus on these things that are not that interesting. It's so, that is so helpful to understand this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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I mean, when I think about some of the just nutso things that I do because of my ADHD, I have lists everywhere. I leave cabinet doors and faucets running all the time, cabinet doors open. I also do this thing on social media where I have extensive folders of things that I've saved, thinking that at some point in the future, I will go back and organize them all. I haven't looked at them once.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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I mean, and I just obsessively do this. I'm constantly running late because I have this weird time expansion thing that happens to me where I feel like I can get 25 things done in exactly three minutes. It just makes me crazy because I know that I can focus in other areas. So it seems so weird that I can't just freaking make myself do it. Talk to me, Dr. Marks.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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It's so fascinating. You know, you... have unbelievable content on your YouTube channel that are all about the overlooked signs and symptoms that people don't realize are symptoms of ADHD and anxiety. And I would love to have you talk about body picking. What is body picking and why do people do it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So is hair pulling like when you see somebody constantly twirling their hair and splitting the ends and doing stuff like this? Is that what you mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Wait, so nail biting and biting or picking at your cuticles or around your fingers is a form of anxiety? It's like a symptom of anxiety?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Why is nail biting and skin picking something that people with ADHD do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So if you're somebody that struggles with nail biting, Dr. Marks, what do you recommend somebody do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And if you were to wear the gloves for a couple months, does that train you to stop doing it? Is that what's happening? It trains you to stop.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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That makes sense because I would imagine people do it almost as like a soothing technique. You know, I have another question from my son. Okay. That I would love to play for you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And then I have one more question for you. And then this one, this one's a good one. Whenever I get anxious, I like, I normally like uncontrollably shake my hand like this or like I go like this, like I do a little snap. Isn't that cool? But it's a lot of like shaking and it's something that I do completely unconsciously at this point. And I was curious what you might think about that too.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Let me know. Thank you so much. You're amazing. The work you do is incredible. You help so many people and we are so lucky to have you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Oh, so for example, if he catches himself shaking and he gets to a point where he's like, this is something that I'd like to stop doing that I'm not aware that I'm doing. Mm-hmm. That in moments where he catches himself doing it, so going back to this kind of metaphor of the response happens, that's not what we're focused on. We're focused on not stepping on the accelerator.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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He might then go, okay, clearly something's making me feel a little unsettled. Let me do a breath. And so he's now catching that he's shaking and he's teaching himself to take his foot off the gas and to step on the brake. That's right. oh, wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And then just like some of the other examples of you're putting gloves on while you watch TV so you don't destroy your finger beds or bite your nails down until they're bleeding, that you are now teaching yourself to stop doing that thing subconsciously in situations where you might feel bored or lonely or nervous about something.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Dr. Marks, what would you say to somebody who is struggling with body picking and it's really challenging and impacting their life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Since we're on the topic of repetitive behavior, what is the relationship between ADHD and tics? And what is a tic?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Because I honestly had no idea how deeply connected ADHD and anxiety actually are. And even more surprising, some of the habits that my kids and I have that I thought were just like these weird little quirks, turns out, nope. Not weird at all. They were actually textbook anxiety and ADHD symptoms.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Well, it's interesting because at the very beginning, you said that one of the things that could change about your life is your brain. Because your brain is malleable, you are able to reprogram it. And if I think about what you just shared with us, which is anxieties on the uptick,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Which I just want to say to you as you're listening, if you're experiencing an uptick in anxiety or if people that you care about are experiencing anxiety for the first time, that I think it's important to hear that this is actually kind of normal right now, that Dr. Marks is seeing it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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What's also interesting to me about the list that you just gave us in terms of social media, constant comparison, things constantly changing, the headlines, the news cycle that's so negative, like all of it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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is that those factors have changed your brain in terms of you feeling anxious, which means if there are outside factors that can change your brain and make you anxious, I would imagine, Dr. Marks, there are also factors that you're going to teach us today that can help you get your anxiety under control.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. in la, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So if you're like super anxious, because I struggled with anxiety for decades. And one of my biggest fears, Dr. Marks, is I'd never actually get rid of it. That I would always feel like that. And so for somebody that's listening right now, or they have anxiety, a loved one, a child or a family member or a friend who's just like in the grip of it, what is possible?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So before we jump into specifics, what actually is anxiety? Are you feeling anxious right now?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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That is so relatable, Dr. Marks. So to have you be a world renowned expert with millions of followers and in real time Tell me and the person that is making time to learn from you that you're actually experiencing a little bit of performance anxiety, which is just wanting to do well, wanting to meet the moment. And I think that that is so helpful because

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Nail biting, skin picking, constantly fidgeting, procrastinating all the time, overthinking, feeling paralyzed by your own brain, frustrated that you want to change, but you just can't seem to. If any of this sounds familiar, you need to hear this conversation today. And if you're not dealing with anxiety or ADHD, I guarantee you someone that you love is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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What do you experience in your body when you are in a moment where you feel anxious about wanting to do well? And, you know, we've all been there, whether it's on a date or an interview. This is a very normal thing, and it's a sign that you're actually functioning the way that you should because you care about how you're going to do, right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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You know, Dr. Marks, it's so interesting that you bring that up because I just have these days where at the end of the day, I feel exactly that, like completely exhausted and tense. And then I reflect, I'm like, well, you basically just sat all day at your desk. Why is that a symptom of anxiety?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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I literally just sat up. I'm like, oh my God, I'm slouched over like The Hobbit right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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Plus, if you're at work and you're kind of bracing, like if you're having a stressful day, that's also another form of you tensing up your muscles.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Truth About Anxiety & ADHD: Life-Changing Tools From a Renowned Psychiatrist

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So today what I've done is I've pulled some serious strings to bring in one of the top psychiatrists with over 25 years of clinical experience specializing in ADHD and anxiety. She's so busy, you'd never be able to even book an appointment with her. And she also happens to have 2 million YouTube subscribers, making her one of the biggest mental health and wellness channels online today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

0.209

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Today, you are going to meet one of the most respected scientists in the entire world. His work in genomics, longevity, cardiology, precision medicine, and AI is so important that other researchers have cited him in more than 365,000 papers.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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You're also going to learn based on the research about the three things that you're doing right now that are aging you faster. And a simple protocol that he calls Lifestyle Plus that can add years to your life and prevent you from ever having cancer, heart disease, or dementia, which are the three biggest killers in the world today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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How should we be using it? Because as I was reading this book, you know what my husband did? He literally, as I was getting ready to report, he ordered a cancer screening test online. It's like $700. You probably know what it's called, the something test.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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Yes, the Grail test.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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Because we've had a couple of friends that have done it that are like, oh my gosh, I'm at risk for this. And so should I not be doing it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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Oh, I want to sign up for one of those. You're saying I shouldn't?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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Why not?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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Got it. So you have somebody that died early of pancreatic cancer and it runs in your family. So you're like, I'm at increased risk. That is something that if you can afford to do it, put your mind at ease. Because I do have friends that have done those, which of course they find stage one pancreatic cancer and it saves their life. And then you go, I could have that too.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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And then you're shelling out money to go get the screening. And you're saying, unless you have risk factors, It's not worth it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Advice From the #1 Longevity Doctor: Add 10 Years to Your Life With 3 Simple Habits

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Well, I'm glad you said this because you hear about all these people going to concierge medicine and getting a workup done at Mayo and they go every year for all the markers and they spend all this time. And I start to think, is that what we're all supposed to do? And most people can't afford it. Are there tests that accurately show your risk for cancer?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Where? Polygenic? What am I asking for?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I cannot wait for you and for me to sit down and learn from Dr. Eric Topol as he unpacks his life's greatest work and shares with you why it's the most exciting time for discovery in medicine right now. This is going to be one of those conversations that you're going to want everybody that you love to hear because the reality is...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Wow. Well, you just saved me 2,500 bucks because I'm not going to go do it now because I could see how I would go on literally down the rabbit hole.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And if though somebody is listening to you and they're like, okay, polygenic risk score, there's a test that I could do if I look back through my history and I have some things that are concerning to me. If you are concerned, what test should you ask your doctor for? Or what would you, how would you, what would you ask your doctor about?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Wait, now hold on. So basically, we're not motivated when we're healthy to stay healthy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What are the top three things, Dr. Topol, that most people are doing that are actually aging them faster?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If you could add years or even a decade to your life, if you could prevent yourself or someone you love from having cancer, dementia, or heart disease in the future, why wouldn't you? Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here. I'm excited that I'm here, and I am really excited that our guest, Dr. Eric Topol, is here today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, I'm bombarded with supplements. I'm bombarded with the ads about the miracle cure and slowing down aging and looking younger and all this stuff. You keep referring to this lifestyle plus. What does plus mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, and what I love about the picture that you're painting and as you write about in your book is that getting older and aging is inevitable, but actually getting frail and weak is not.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Dr. Topol, I have so much that I want to dig into with you, but let's take a quick pause so we can give our sponsors a chance to say a few words. And as you're listening to our sponsors, be generous with this. Absolutely everybody that you care about and love deserves this information, and they would love a chance to learn from the extraordinary Dr. Eric Topol.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And don't go anywhere, because we have more from his new book, Super Agers, when we return. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I have the honor of getting to spend time with and learn from one of the most respected scientists in the world.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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His name is Dr. Eric Topol, and he is here unpacking his evidence-based approach to longevity and all of this extraordinary research in his new book, Super Agers. So Dr. Topol, I want to read to you from your book. because you got some strong words about the anti-aging industry. And I'm reading from chapter 12, and it is page 277.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I just want to remind you as you're listening, this is a scientist and doctor whose work has been cited 365,000 times. And here are his thoughts and words about anti-aging. Have you visited the Longevity Lifespan Circus lately? There are over 800 longevity clinics in the United States. Some charge up to $50,000 per week. Fitness centers now have intravenous anti-aging drips.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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There are carnival barker scientists making false claims and hawking supplements. These entrepreneurial companies and investments aren't likely to settle down anytime soon because we are seeing some real progress in understanding the science of the aging process. Unfortunately, though, that has led to irrational exuberance in many dimensions.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I'm hoping to set the record straight on what we know, what we don't know, and how likely it is that we'll be able to modulate the aging process to some extent one day. So Dr. Topol, those are strong words. What do you want to say about the anti-aging craze and all the marketing around it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm glad you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You actually warn about the dangers and this obsession of trying to stop or reverse aging. Could you explain, Dr. Topol, the problem with stopping or reversing aging?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay, so you're taking genes from a younger animal and then you're injecting them into the older animal with the presumption that the genes of the younger animal can then infiltrate and reprogram older genes, thereby making you younger?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, how do you tell if it looks young? Like when you say that to me, it's like, I'm just like a normal person. So I'm like, okay, you're going to inject me with genes. It's going to make me turn young. I feel like my wrinkles disappear. You know, I'm not sagging in places I wish I weren't sagging. My skin's a little firm. You know what I'm saying? Like, is that what you mean by you look young?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I know that you're the kind of person who not only values your time, but you value your health and you're interested in longevity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What's the connection?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's way too big for me to say.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you could not have picked a better conversation to spend your time on because this is going to be one of the most valuable things you could ever listen to on longevity, on the science of aging, because you're going to be learning from one of the most respected living medical researchers and scientists alive today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, it makes sense. Like if you put it in the other direction, if chemo is basically killing everything to the point where you're now just going to have to rebuild all your cells, if you reverse the clock, what you're saying is some of the science suggests that, holy cow, you're actually expediting the ability of bad cells to multiply.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So Dr. Tobel, to you, what's the most exciting development in anti-aging technology and research that you think is going to revolutionize the way that we do age?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, what's exciting about that too is if the research also proves that when somebody gets a diagnosis, they are very motivated to save their life. If this technology allows you to get the diagnosis 20 years early, now hopefully you have the same motivation to prevent that from happening by making the Lifestyle Plus or other interventions happen now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And if you're listening right now because somebody in your life shared this with you, I want to point something out. That's really cool because it means you have people in your life that care about you and that care about your health.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I have so much that I want to dig into with you, but let's take a quick pause so we can give our sponsors a chance to say a few words. And Dr. Tobel has so much more to share with you, so don't go anywhere. We'll be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And today you and I are learning from one of the most extraordinary and respected medical researchers alive today. His name is Dr. Eric Topol. We have the honor of having him here in our Boston studios. So Dr. Topol. But I want to call something out because I found it absolutely fascinating. On page 19 through 20, you talk a lot about diet and the impact that diet has on the aging process.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you write that based on the research, 22% of all deaths are linked to someone's diet. That means one in five. How can that be true, Dr. Tobin?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What's overnutrition mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And they wanted you to have the opportunity to learn from one of the top researchers in the world about simple things that you can do based on the evidence to live longer, to be healthier, and to have a better life. Because that's exactly what you and I are going to talk about today with the extraordinary Dr. Eric Topol. Dr. Topol is a pioneering physician scientist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you write a lot about ultra processed foods. And you write in particular on page 21 that eating ultra processed food likely involves the disruption of the gut brain signals that unprocessed food conveys to the brain. And that this has a direct connection to a markedly heightened risk of cardiovascular and metabolic diseases. Can you talk a little bit about ultra processed foods?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So, you know, I think about ultra processed as anything that's in a box or a bag and that I can't read the ingredients on the back of the label.

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But you say that you believe that ultra-processed foods and the big food industry, particularly here in the United States, at some point we're going to wake the hell up and realize that this is just like a modern-day cigarette in terms of how it's killing us. What do you mean by that, Dr. Topol?

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What is that? That's a fancy word for heart disease.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a documentary where he ate it for 40 days.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I want to make sure that as you're listening to Dr. Topol, that you really took away a number of things that you said. And so please stop me, Dr. Topol, if I got this wrong, because there was a lot of life saving and important information that you said.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He's a cardiologist who practiced for almost four decades and is one of the most renowned researchers in the world. He is the founder and director of the world-renowned Scripps Research Translational Institute, where he currently serves as the executive vice president and professor of molecular medicine.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I want to just remind us, we're talking about the science of aging and how to use that rich science to extend our lives and to live a healthier and more fulfilling life. And one of the things that we're talking about right now is ultra-processed food.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And we have had expert after expert, medical expert scientists come on this show and talk about how ultra-processed food is engineered to make you want more, just like cigarettes are. And so it's super important to understand that if you're kind of sitting there listening to Dr. Topol and 60 to 70% of your diet

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is fast food, or it is coming out of a box, or you're recognizing, I didn't realize that this was a thing, it's not your fault because the food is engineered to disrupt the way that you crave food. That's number one. Number two, what was really interesting about what you just said is because there's so many chemicals and modified stuff in there that doesn't belong in your kitchen,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's also not naturally belonging in your body. So it's disrupting the way that your body and organs and everything is communicating to one another, which is also not your fault. But when it gets interrupted, you said that big word, inflammation.

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And when inflammation and swelling and all that stuff starts to happen through no fault of your own, because you're eating these ultra-processed foods that are designed to be addictive, it's that is now speeding up the aging process. And that is impacting the quality of your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you're here to say that by just dialing it down, by paying attention, I call this the grandparent diet, just eat what your grandparents ate. You know, if you like get one ingredient on the plate kind of situation, that that has a meaningful impact on on not only how you age, but also how you feel as you age. Is that correct, Dr. Topol?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So you also have a section in your book where you list food groups and break down what the most up-to-date science says about their effects on lifespan. And I'd love to go through these rapid fire and understand what does the science say about each one of these types of things, these foods, or I don't even know if you would call it a food, but these things that we eat.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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First one is sugar, Dr. Topol. How does sugar impact our lifespan?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Previously, Dr. Topol was the chairman of cardiovascular medicine at Cleveland Clinic, one of the top hospitals in the world. And it was ranked number one in heart care for over a decade during Dr. Topol's tenure. And if you're thinking, what else could this guy possibly do? Well, he's also among the top 10 most cited researchers in medicine in the world.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love salt. Why are you telling me I can't put salt on my food? Why do I not want salt on my food?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It'll taste the same. I don't know what potassium chloride, do you buy this at the grocery store? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, I'm going to try it, but I also just kind of had this epiphany, which is this is particularly problematic if you have 60% of your diet being ultra-processed. If you're somebody that is eating from the farmer's market and eating what your grandparents did and you're occasionally putting salt on your food, that's not what you're actually concerned about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're concerned about all the salt that's that is in fast food, it's in ultra-processed food, and then adding more salt makes it worse.

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He's actually one of the top 10 most cited medical researchers alive today, and you've probably never heard of him because he's so busy working in his lab, he's not on social media.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, I didn't ask you about the sugar substitutes, like, you know, all of the equals and the thing. I don't know all the name brands, but you know, all the ones that people use to not use just grain sugar. What about those?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What about caffeine when it comes to what the science says about how it impacts your lifespan?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Please, Dr. Topol.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Dr. Topol, what?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, on page 42 of your bestselling book, Super Agers, you write, despite their popularity and heavy marketing, there's little to no hard evidence for the benefit of taking any vitamins or supplements, especially in those who are following a healthy diet. Dr. Topol, what does the science say about supplements?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He's published over 1,370 peer-reviewed articles, which is an enormous number. And his research is so respected that it's been cited by other researchers more than 365,000 times. I mean, just to put that into perspective, that's more than 99.99% of all scientists globally.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, you mentioned earlier when we were starting to talk about Lifestyle Plus and the impact of diet on the aging process and living a long life, you talked about protein.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What do you want to say, Dr. Topol, to us about the importance of protein and the science of aging?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What does that mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's like 150 pounds. I don't know what the hell's going on. It's about 150 pounds. So 150 pounds, what am I eating?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So as you get older, you need more protein?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If you're listening to Dr. Topol, you know, you can see him on YouTube. But I really believe you. And not just because of all of the... papers that you've written and the fact that you are one of the top 10 most cited scientists and researchers in the world right now, but also because you look like Harrison Ford's younger brother. You're 70 years old. You look like you're probably late 50s.

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Like, I kid you not. Has anyone ever told you that?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah. Well, he looks a lot like you. We should say Harrison Ford looks like Dr. Topol. So clearly the things he's recommending not only work because of the science, but you literally look like you could go run an ultramarathon right now and star in a movie. So you talk a little bit about exercise because the research that you present in this book, it's honestly astonishing. It's astonishing.

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He's also the author of several bestselling books, including his newest mega bestseller, Super Agers, an evidence-based approach to longevity, which has already been endorsed by, check this out, five Nobel laureates and several of the world's top medical researchers. I am absolutely honored that he chose the Mel Robbins podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You say, Dr. Topol, that the single most effective medical intervention that we know of that's even more effective than an antidepressant For treating depression, you write about this on page 263 in your bestselling book, Super Agers.

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The findings are further strengthened by a meta-analysis of 41 randomized controlled trials of exercise for a major depressive disorder that markedly reduced symptoms of depression. Can you talk to us about exercise and the benefits when it comes to the science of aging and longevity?

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So let's just say, Dr. Tobel, that I'm sitting in your office and I've brought along my husband and he has not been taking good care of himself. And I have a feeling that you are often finding yourself being both a marriage therapist and a medical doctor with your patients.

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And I also have a feeling that there are a large number of people around the world who are gonna not only be excited about what you're sharing for themselves, but they're going to share this with somebody that they care about. And so what would you prescribe as one of the most respected and cited researchers and medical doctors in the world in the science of aging?

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What is your prescription for the minimum, the minimum amount that we should be doing every week, what would you say?

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and a conversation with you and me as the very first interview that he granted for his new book. Dr. Eric Topol, thank you so much for getting on a plane, flying across the country, and being here on the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm absolutely thrilled to unpack Super Agers with you, your brand new book.

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My golf swing is better. Everything. Everything.

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So you heard it from Dr. Topol. If somebody's been nagging you and they also sent you this episode, first of all, thank you for listening this far in. And exercise and literally 30 minutes, five times a day, just a simple walk is what Dr. Topol is saying, can start to lower the biological marker of your age because exercise is the most powerful intervention that you have. Seriously?

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That's incredible.

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And talk to us about that study related to depression and the impact that exercise had on people struggling with depression.

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You know, you say to live longer, we do need to address our mental health. Why does your mental health affect the process of aging, which impacts your lifespan?

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Well, here's where I'd like to start, because you are one of the most credentialed and cited experts. The book, of course, is an evidence-based approach to longevity.

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Well, you write about this in Super Agers, and I'm actually looking at a graph on page 264 that is adapted from who Americans spend their time with by age. And you can see that as people get older, the amount of time that they spend alone, without a partner, without family, without kids, without their coworkers – spikes pretty dramatically.

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And I would also think we probably don't have the data, but coming out of the pandemic, I would think that you're going to see a lot of that even for younger age groups because of hybrid work. And I'd love to have you connect the dots between the aging process and longevity and time spent alone and why that is a massive stressor that ages the body.

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I would love to have you start by talking directly to the person who's listening and tell them what they might experience that will be different about their life or the life of somebody that they care about if they take everything to heart that you're about to teach us today.

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I would love to also just, for the person listening, really connect the dots between mental, lonely, stress. Because I think when you hear the word mental health, you tend to just think about your thoughts. But there's something much deeper going on because you mentioned stress. And medically speaking...

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When you're stressed out or burnt out or on edge or just kind of feeling like, when is the next shoe going to drop? And I think there's recent research that shows that one of the biggest groups of people that are impacted by this right now are caregivers. We think about first responders, but we don't think about caregivers and parents.

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And that being in a state of stress actually means that your body is running on overdrive And you're in fight or flight oftentimes. And does that state age you faster if you're living in a state of stress?

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I am personally honored by the fact that he jumped on a plane and flew here from the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego to launch his new mega bestselling book, Super Agers, an evidence-based approach to longevity. This book is so important that five Nobel laureates have endorsed it. And you and I are the very first people to sit down with Dr. Eric Topol

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And you know what I love is if we go back to the very beginning where you talked about the three things that age us the fastest, these are also the same three things that help us actually slow down the aging. And that would be getting better sleep, moving your body, even though you got a lot of other things going on and changes to your diet. So you bring down the amount of ultra processed food.

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Is there anything else that you prescribe to your patients that are going through a period of their life, or maybe they're caring for aging parents, or something crazy stressful is going on at work, or they've had a big life change, spouses died, divorce, some job change, where they're in that state of stress. Is there something that you recommend that people do, Dr. Tobel?

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Well, I think the other thing that you're providing to us today is the science and the evidence and the pragmatism and the passion around this. Because when I understand the deeper reason why and that research bears this out, I feel more encouraged to try it.

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Dr. Topol, if the person listening to this conversation takes just one action today from absolutely everything that you shared, what would be the one thing that you would want them to do?

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What are your parting words, Dr. Topol?

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Well, you want to know what else is enthralling?

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And your incredible bestselling new book, Super Agers. Dr. Topol, thank you, thank you, thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you for writing this book. Thank you for showing up, flying across the country, spending time today, not only teaching, but really infusing the message with so much passion. I just cannot tell you how much I appreciate you.

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Thank you. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that will not only make your life better, it'll actually help you and the people that you love live longer. I can't recommend super agers more. And I also want to be sure to tell you in case no one else does, I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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And Dr. Topol just gave you a roadmap that based on science and evidence will do it. Alrighty, I'll see you in a few days. I'll be waiting in the very next episode to welcome you in the moment you hit play. And I had never stopped to think about how, oh, do you want me to stop? Okay. What is that? Is it garbage day? Okay.

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Okay. Terrific. You did great. Oh, thank you.

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Dr. Cobalt. You're so good.

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Dr. Cobalt did great, everybody. It's just act one. It's really good. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Well, one of the things that I loved about reading Super Agers is, first of all, not only do I feel smarter now, but I also could feel the passion and your optimism. that there are simple things that absolutely anybody can do starting today that will not only make you healthier, but more importantly, based on the science of aging, it will actually extend your life.

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And is that true for anyone, Dr. Topol? Like if the person listening is, you know, kind of one of the things that I always find when I'm listening to somebody who is as smart as you are and has done the research and you're like, here are the simple things to do. And you go, oh my God, I really screwed up. And now it's too late.

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Like does the science of aging show that even if you're starting from a baseline, where you have not taken care of yourself, you're not getting sleep, you haven't been moving your body, you've basically been living out of a box or a bag of chips for most of your life. Do these interventions also help you start to reclaim your health in terms of extending your life?

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You're basically saying there is a huge difference between what somebody like me and the person listening is seeing out in the media about anti-aging and the anti-aging craze versus what you're here to teach us about the science of aging

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and simple changes that you can make that not only will help you live a longer and healthier life, but these same changes also help prevent the big three diseases of cancer, heart disease, and neurodegenerative issues like dementia.

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and hear him explain why he is enthralled by the science of aging. Now, he's going to teach you exactly what you need to know about the science of aging and how you can add years, even decades, to your life. Today, he's also here to call out the junk science and the people that are trying to sell you supplements and drugs and intravenous drips as the key to longevity.

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You know, one of the things that I was surprised by, Dr. Topol, when I was reading your bestselling book, Super Agers, is that literally a third of this book is dedicated to diseases. It never even occurred to me that one way to live a longer, healthier life is to actually avoid having a chronic disease. Right. And there's so much hope and science that you have in this.

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So how important is avoiding or like not getting one of these chronic diseases to the science of aging and longevity?

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First of all, when I read the statistic that for Americans age 60 and older, 95% of Americans 60 or older have some sort of chronic disease, that was jaw-dropping. But what I find encouraging

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is that all of this extensive research that you lay out in this book basically is the prescription, the lifestyle plus modifications that you're talking about when it comes to sleep and loneliness and exercise and lowering the amount of processed foods that we have, that all of these are actual interventions that help you fight these chronic diseases and may also help you never even get one.

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And just to be clear, because I'm sure somebody will push back on that, there are all kinds of cancers and diseases that hit people when they're little or when they are in their 20s that are not determined by lifestyle. What you're saying is based on the science of aging, that the big three diseases that kill people

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He's going to be very blunt because he says there isn't a pill you can take, there is not a drug anyone can prescribe that will reverse aging. But there is one thing based on research that costs nothing that can reverse the biological age of your organs. And he's going to tell you what that is today.

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that you said over and over, heart disease, cancer, and the neurodegenerative things like dementia that people develop later in life, that by and large, the research shows that these lifestyle plus interventions not only make these, help you treat the diseases, but if you were to implement what you're talking about based on the research, you might never get these diseases in the first place.

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Well, you write about this on page 125, chapter six. By 2050, the number of people dying from cancer, age-related cancers, projected to nearly double. But we have not yet incorporated over half a century of extraordinary breakthroughs in the understanding and use of certain biological mechanisms that can stop cancer from killing us now.

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What do you want the person listening, what's the most important thing that they could do in order to put to use these extraordinary breakthroughs in the science of aging and use biologic mechanism to stop cancer.

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3 Questions That Determine Who You Really Are

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Okay, so the other day I was on YouTube and I was watching an episode of one of my personal favorite podcasts on YouTube, which is Club Shay Shay, and he had Terry Crews on. I freaking love Terry Crews. I would tell you all about his resume right now, but it is so long. We'll get to that in just a second.

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If you're brand new to the Mel Robbins podcast, I want to personally welcome you to the family. You've tuned into an amazing, amazing episode. And thank you for taking the time to listen to something that could truly help you be happier and help you create a better life. And today, I'm going to share three questions that I learned about from other people.

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I knew he had moved to LA after he had retired from the NFL. I had no idea it was so that he could be an illustrator and work for a company like Pixar. How freaking cool. But the point here is simple.

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that these tiny changes, whether it's going to the gym every day and just showing up and sitting on the machine and reading a magazine, one of these days after day 22, you're going to get tired of that and you'll actually use the machine. But if you just keep showing up, the habit of showing up builds.

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And if you just keep asking yourself that first question, how would I do this if someone were paying me a million dollars to do this? that makes it a habit for you to tap into your greatest potential and give it your all no matter how you feel. And the reason why that matters is because how you do anything is how you do everything. How you sweep a floor is how you show up at an interview.

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How you file paperwork at the VA's office is how you pick yourself up after the first studio says, no, sorry, we don't need animation. And the man just kept going. Why? Because he had used these simple tools to tap into a greater potential within himself. And it's in the showing up that will ultimately open up the door that you've always wanted to walk through.

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And oftentimes, this is certainly what I have found in my life. You're gunning for one thing. And in Terry Crew's life, it was animation, Pixar. I'm going to be an illustrator. We're going to use the artistry thing. And as you are putting it all into being excellent at that, some door you didn't even realize was the one that was meant for you pops open and boom, you find your way.

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you discover who you really are and what you're capable of. You discover it over and over and over again. I just love this. Don't you love this? You know what else I love? our sponsors. I want to take a quick pause and let them have a chance to share a little bit about their amazing products and services. And don't you dare go anywhere.

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I mean, how would you listen to this podcast if somebody were paying you a million dollars to do it, right? You'd stick around. So I'm going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. And today you and I are covering the three questions that determine who you really are. So let's jump back into it.

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There are going to be times where life is going to present you with a crossroads. And you are going to have a big decision to make. And you're going to wonder, what is that decision? Do I stay in this job? Do I quit this job? Do I stay where I am? Do I move? Is this the relationship? Is it not? These are really big personal questions. How do you answer them?

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people who have accomplished extraordinary things in their lives, in their work. And we are going to use these questions as a way for you to tap into and unearth your power and your potential and your greatest self. And these are questions that determine who you really are. Don't you want to know what these questions are? Of course you do.

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How do you discover who you truly are, especially when what you do is going to impact other people, whether it's the person that you love or the kids that you're responsible for or the bills that you have to pay? Well, for the second question,

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I don't know what it is about the algorithm on YouTube, but the second I was done mainlining this interview with Terry Crews, all of a sudden there is this interview from Jeff Bezos and I'd never seen this thing. So this interview that I'm about to play for you, this little clip is from 2001.

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So I want to set the table a little bit because Jeff Bezos, as you know, founder of Amazon and the background on his story is that in 1994, He wants to jump into the internet game. And so in this interview, and the interview that you're about to hear a clip from is an interview that he gave in 2001. And it was for a nonprofit called the Academy of Achievement.

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And he was talking about lessons that he had learned in courage. And so he's setting the table about a conversation that he's going to have with his boss in 1994, where he's going to explain to his boss that he's planning on quitting this big job to start a virtual bookstore. Let's take a listen.

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And that brings us to the second question that determines who you truly are. And I'm going to add a little bit to it. And it also helps you determine what you truly want. because sometimes it's not so obvious. And so he goes away for 48 hours and he's in search of this framework, this framework that's going to help him make this huge life-changing decision.

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And in the interview, he explains, and these are his words, not mine, only a nerd would call it this, but he starts calling this framework, which is basically a question, the regret minimization framework. And the basic premise of it is to make decisions in a way to minimize the number of regrets that you're going to have when you're 80 years old. And so let's go back to this interview.

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Where Jeff is explaining what the regret minimization framework is and the question he asked himself.

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And that brings me to the very first question that you're going to ask yourself. that determines who you really are. And this, I gotta give all the credit to none other than Terry Crews. Just in case you have no idea who this man is, he is a world famous actor, TV host, sitcom star, comedian, artist, best-selling author, children's book illustrator, and if that's not enough,

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What I love about this is that he's using this commitment to minimize regrets as a way to ask himself a question. And the question is basically project yourself out to the age of 80 and ask, what will I think at that time?

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And he then explains the benefit of going out into the distance and asking yourself, what will I think about taking this risk, whether I fail, whether I succeed at the time when I'm 80?

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I love this. Because to put this in context, if you don't work on Wall Street, the thing to know about that bonus that he was walking away from is for most people, that is the majority of your compensation for the entire year. And he said, it can confuse you. I think it can determine your decision. You make the decision based on what's going to happen in the next six months.

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And you forget about the long range impact of how you will feel about that decision way later down the road when you're 80 years old. And after watching that interview, I was so curious to see if he spoke any more about this that I could only find one other interview online. It was 18 years later. And in this one, he is on a stage at an event called Summit Co.

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And he happens to be talking to his brother about lessons and success. And he's reflecting back on this moment in his life and using the regret minimization framework to make this decision. And he had this insight. about the nature of regrets that I wanted to share with you.

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And that's why the second question determines who you really are and what you really want. If I put myself at the age of 80, what am I going to think about this decision then? Am I going to regret not doing it? And what's interesting about this question is it does help you remove all of the things that you're scared of that are right in front of you right now, immediately in your vision.

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And it helps you think long term and tap into what your heart truly wants. That thing that you know to be true that oftentimes you're scared to listen to. And it actually really works. I've referred to this before as time traveling. When you time travel ahead in your life and then you look backwards, things tend to make sense in a way that they don't when you're standing in the middle of it.

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And it gives you this sense of perspective that has wisdom that you can use in the present moment. And it works because I've felt this way. You know, when I've asked my question at various times in my life, like, for example, when we moved to Vermont, am I going to regret not doing something that really supports Oakley at this moment in his life? Yes, I would regret not doing that.

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He has been named People's Sexiest Man of the Year three times in a row. His career in acting spans for decades. Like this man is unstoppable. And so here he is being interviewed on Club Shay Shay by none other than Shannon Sharp, who's an ESPN commentator and one of the most popular podcast hosts on the planet. I'm going to link to that interview in the show notes.

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And so we moved. I felt that way when I started this podcast. Would I regret not doing it? Even though it was a big risk, even though I was going to have to shut down parts of the business that were very successful to find the time to do this, even if it failed, I knew I would regret not doing it.

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And then all of a sudden, all the obstacles just become not barriers to doing it, but things you need to figure out. And you know what else? I felt this way. when I quit my job as a lawyer in 1999. See, I hated that job, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. But I was so intrigued by the internet that I quit my job as a lawyer and I jumped right into that first dot-com bubble in 1999.

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And you want to know something? I wasn't successful. I went from job to job to job to job. I was lost and changing my career and had no direction. I was just like throwing darts at the wall for crying out loud, trying to figure out my next move for 14 years. 14 years.

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But I'll tell you what, even though I didn't succeed, you know, like it wasn't like I jumped into a startup that became Amazon and I found my calling.

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I definitely didn't fail and I know if I had stayed in that job and just soldiered on I would have looked back on that moment and regretted it for the rest of my life and I tell you that because you don't regret the things that you failed at because you're proud of yourself for trying And that's exactly what Jeff Bezos reflected on at the end of that interview in 2019.

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I just love this. I love this question. Just think about yourself at the age of 80 and now look back on this decision you need to make. And your job is to make a decision that you will not regret. And there is a 100% chance that you will regret not trying. You will regret not taking a risk. You will regret not placing a bet on yourself or following your heart.

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And you wanna know what else is true? There's 100% chance you will be proud of yourself if you find the courage to take the risk. I'm telling you, you're gonna be proud of yourself. And that's why that question is so powerful. This is a great moment to hit the pause button, hear a word from our sponsors.

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If somebody's coming to mind, you're like, they need this, please share this episode with them. It will make a huge difference in their life for them to have these questions too. Alrighty, share this episode and I'll be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. And today you and I are digging into three questions that determine who you truly are.

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And that brings me to the third and final question from somebody I love. I love this woman so much. I follow her online. She is so extraordinary. Every time she comments on a post, I nearly have a heart attack because I respect her so much. I'm talking about the one and only Viola Davis. Now, her resume is unbelievable.

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You go watch the entire two hours, then you go subscribe to that YouTube channel. He is the best. I just love his interviews. And so I'm leaning in. I'm watching this interview that he's doing with Terry Crews. And so Terry Crews kind of starts the interview with the background. And like me, Terry is from Michigan. I'm from the western side of the state, Muskegon. Terry grew up in Flint, Michigan.

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First of all, she has run the Triple Crown of Acting, an Academy Award, an Emmy Award, a Tony Award. Unbelievable. There's only 24 people, 15 women, nine men who've achieved that Triple Crown. She's also won the EGOT, which is that acronym for winning an Emmy, a Grammy, an Oscar and a Tony. I mean, that is unbelievable.

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And one of the things that I respect about her so much is she is one of the wisest human beings I think I could ever listen to. Every time she talks, I just feel myself exhale. And there was this clip that I found that thank you, YouTube, for just serving up the next most amazing thing that I should see. Thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing this clip of Viola into my life.

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And I want to set the stage because this third question is a game changer. You want to know who you really are? Ask yourself this question every morning. You want to know what you're really made of? Ask yourself this question before you go to bed every night. It will reveal a truth that you need to live by. And so the clip that you're about to hear is Viola Davis standing on the red carpet.

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She is at the premiere of the Hunger Games in 2023. She's standing next to Julius, who is her husband, and a BuzzFeed reporter asks her, What relationship advice would you give the youth?

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Don't you love that answer? I love that. You're asked, what's your relationship advice? And most of us immediately default to our relationship with our significant other. That's why Viola Davis is always there with the wisdom. She's like, you are the love of your life.

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She takes control of that interview, redirects it to the most important relationship that you have, the relationship with yourself. And she wasn't done.

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Oh, it's so true. Everything begins with you. If you want to know who you truly are and what matters to you, ask yourself the question when you wake up in the morning, today, who is going to be the love of my life? You. It should be you. How do you do that? You treat yourself like you would treat somebody that you love. You speak kindly. You take care of your body. You take care of your needs.

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You don't chase people that aren't choosing to love you back. You don't accept less than you deserve. You hold on to your boundaries. You focus on what matters. That's how you know that you're the love of your life. When you go to bed every single night, ask yourself that question. Again, because it determines who you really are. And every night, give yourself a gut check.

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And he talks about how even when he was a kid, he just had this huge passion for art. And art, believe it or not, I don't know if you know this, art is what earned him a scholarship to Western Michigan University. And when he got there, he walked on to the football team.

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Who was the love of my life today? And I hope nine times out of 10, you know it was you. Because how you treat yourself sets the bar for every other relationship in your life. How you treat yourself in response to that question determines who you are and what your experience of life is. It starts with you. Three simple questions. Determine who you really are.

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Question number one, if you were getting paid a million dollars to do this, how would you do it? That question reveals a level of excellence, capacity, just this ability to put your all into something and it also reveals when you're not. So that's question number one.

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Question number two, if I time travel and I think about being 80 years old and I look back at this moment, am I going to regret not doing this? And the fact is, you never regret the risks that you take, even when you fail. Because when you fail, knowing that you took a risk, that you bet on yourself, you're proud of yourself.

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But there's a huge, huge chance that you will regret not taking that risk. And so that question determines who you really are because it helps you tap into what's in your heart and the courage that you need to follow it. This third question today, who is going to be the love of my life? You. You. It should be you.

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You know who the love of your life is, not based on what you feel, but based on how you behave. Did you treat yourself with love? And that question's a game changer because how you treat yourself sets the bar for every other relationship in your life. It starts with you. And you have so much more potential, so much more excellence, so much more courage and capacity than you're tapping into.

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And I truly hope that these three questions are tools that you use to start digging deeper. And maybe what you need is a moment of honesty, like the one Terry Crews shared with us, where looking back, you realize you've been blaming everybody else, but the truth is you weren't showing up. You weren't taking the risk.

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And the good news about finally waking up to that is you can take responsibility for how you show up moving forward. You can dig a little deeper. There is this level that you haven't reached yet with yourself.

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Now, Terry admits in this interview, and he's admitted this in past interviews that I've watched with him, that he never really liked football. Football was just a way out of Flint, Michigan. And he admits, and I love this about him, he admits that even when he was in football, he didn't really apply himself as much as he knew deep in his heart that he could.

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And the moment you decide to hold yourself to a higher standard, whether that's how you treat yourself or whether that's how you show up and do the job with excellence and put your full self into it, or whether it's allowing yourself to take the risks and tap into that courage to follow your heart, you discover the person you could become.

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to tell you that I love you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And I will be waiting for you in the very next episode. Okay. All right. Let's go. Okay. All right. We're ready. Here we go. Here we go. Let's see. Hold on. Okay. Gotcha. That's a good, that's good read in for me. Okay, great. What's the question thing again? Okay, great.

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Great. Because it's, you know, I think this is so exciting. Um, and so that brings me to the first question. Oh, it sounds so good. I believe in her. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

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I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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And you're going to hear him talk about this in just a minute, that he says to Shannon, like, you were a superstar in the NFL. I didn't really like it. In fact, I didn't fully dedicate myself to the NFL. And I can admit that to myself. And so they kind of talk a little bit about the background there.

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But there was this moment in the interview, oh my gosh, Terry Crews was telling this story. about a question that he asked himself at one of the lowest moments of his life when he was a janitor sweeping a floor. And this question changed his life.

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And then you learn that in 1996, after a brief stint with the Philadelphia Eagles, he retires from football. And that's when he takes this bold risk and he moves his family. out to Los Angeles. And so it's now 1997 and Terry Crews has moved to Los Angeles because he is going to pursue his first love, which is art, believe it or not. He was an illustrator. That's what he did.

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Like he moved out there to LA because he wanted to get into animation. So they're starting from scratch. They have a young family. His wife is starting to get nervous because they literally are broke. And she says to him, dude, what are we going to do if this doesn't work? Are we going to go back to Flint? And I want you to hear what Terry's response is.

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Part of his resolve came from the fact that he could be honest with himself, that he didn't throw himself completely into his NFL career. And he reflects upon this in the interview. And I just think this is a level of self-awareness and honesty that you don't hear from people very often.

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I just love that. I totally had to be honest with myself. And as he was sitting there going through that laundry list, weren't you reflecting on your own life? I was certainly reflecting on my life. The opportunities I squandered, the periods of my life where I did not put myself into it. College did not put myself into it. Law school did not put myself into it.

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Job after job after job did not throw myself into it. And then I would have the audacity to blame it on something else. When you know deep down that you didn't give it your all, you didn't show up as your best. And so I want to make sure that you're thinking about that for yourself.

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Those moments in your life where you know you didn't show up in a way and tap into your true potential, and you did that. Because that's now the fuel that Terry Crews is using to keep himself going. Because success isn't just handed to you. I often say to our daughters who's actually out in Los Angeles pursuing a career in the music industry, it's not about how good you are on stage.

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And then I found another video of one of my favorite human beings of all time, Viola Davis, talking about a question that you need to ask yourself every day of your life. And so that's what you and I are going to dig into today. Three questions that you need to ask yourself that determine who you are, what you're made of, and what actually matters to you. Hey, it's your friend Mel.

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It's about how long you are willing to be your best and to continue to show up and not quit. That's the game. You think the game is singing? That is not what the game is. The game is showing up and showing up and tapping into your potential and refusing to quit. And to make the stakes even higher, Terry's not just starting from scratch. He's just come from the NFL where he's

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almost made it like he knows how close he was to having all of the things that everybody's chasing and so he's in this moment of the story where his job, believe it or not, is working as a janitor, sweeping floors. And he's telling his wife, we're not going back to Flint. I don't care if we are here till we are 99 years old and I never make it. We are not leaving LA. I am not giving up.

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I am pouring myself into this. And so he's setting the scene. that he is going to do what it takes to make this work in LA as a janitor. He's going to figure this out. And so hear him tell you this moment.

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And now, you are back at square one. You are starting from scratch. You have a broom in your hand and you have a floor to sweep. And that brings me to the very first question that determines who you really are. A question that Terry Crews asked himself over and over and over again while he had that broom in his hand and was committed to doing whatever it took to pursue his dreams.

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I want to make sure you heard that question. Imagine if someone was going to give me a million dollars to sweep this floor. How would you sweep it? That's the question. That right there. And he called it a little game that he was playing to get through the depression. This is not a game. This is the way you play life to win.

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This is a question that you ask yourself to discover who you really are and what you're made of. Just ask yourself that. Like think about your current job or the school that you're in or anything that you're pursuing in life right now. Imagine if somebody were going to give you a million dollars to study for that class, I would get an A+. I can tell you that right now.

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I don't care if it was engineering quantum physics, I would get an A+. Imagine if somebody were going to give you a million dollars to sweep a floor, to unload a dishwasher, to work on your resume. I guarantee you, if they were going to pay you a million dollars, you would dig deep and you would show up differently. And you know what that question reveals?

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It reveals that there is hidden potential inside of you. It reveals a capacity that you haven't tapped into. It reveals a will and a desire and a motivation that is there. that you can use. If you can ramp up how you show up, if you can give it your all, if you imagine that someone's gonna give you a million dollars, it means you can do it at any time. And that's what that question reveals.

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It reveals who you really are. And I think that this is so exciting. It's exciting to know that you're capable of more. It's exciting to know that there are periods of your life where, yeah, you're going to coast. Nobody's paying me to do this. I don't really care. It doesn't really matter.

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And then there are times where you got to dig deep and you got to keep going and you got to ask yourself this question that Terry Crews did because he didn't just ask himself that as he's sweeping that floor, struggling through depression.

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starting over from scratch in L.A., he asked it in every single menial job that he had, from filing papers over at the Veterans Administration to doing security for movie sets. Here he is talking about how he used that question as he is standing on the lot, working as a security guard on a movie set to tap into his own excellence and his own potential and a better mindset. Check this out.

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I'm so excited for our conversation today because I have three questions that I am going to share with you. I discovered them one afternoon and I was going down a rabbit hole on YouTube watching one of my favorite podcasts, which is Club Shay Shay. We're going to get into that in just a minute. But first, I want to tell you, I love spending time with you. Thank you for tuning in today.

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There is so much to unpack here. There is so much wisdom in this question. He's literally reverse engineering excellence and reverse engineering motivation and reverse engineering how you raise your own standards with one question. Imagine if somebody were paying you a million dollars to do this. How would you do this if you were getting paid a million dollars?

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And any change in the way that you would do something reveals that you have more potential than you're using. It reveals that you have the ability to push through something. And he used this to force himself to keep going.

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And a little bit later in the interview, there's this really interesting moment where they dug into depression and how real it is, particularly after playing football and starting over. And he had this realization where he was saying that he hadn't worked out in a year. And so he spent $25 to go to a gym and work out a month. And he had never spent money to go to a gym before.

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So here he spent $25 a month to go to a gym. And he said he was so depressed, check this out, that he would just sit on the machine and read a magazine. Didn't even work out. But he made himself a promise. that he would keep coming back 20 days, 21 days. And that habit, he's talking about a habit, something you repeat that then becomes who you are, turned into 30 years of consistently working out.

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And as he's reflecting both on this question that he asked over and over and over, Imagine if somebody were paying me a million dollars. How would I do this thing if I were getting paid a million dollars? Which what creates a habit of excellence, a habit of raising your own standards, a habit of putting your all into something. And here's what he learned about these tiny, small changes.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Have you ever watched someone walk into a room and you think to yourself, God, I wish I had that kind of confidence? I mean, there's just something about the way they hold themselves. Maybe it's the way they conduct themselves in a meeting.

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Let me remind you of a fact. Everybody starts at zero, everyone. Whether you're trying to learn guitar or you're building a social media following, you're not going to feel confident. You're going to act in accordance with the research of confidence. You, my friend, are willing to try. That's the secret. And it took me a long time to learn this secret for myself.

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And I'm going to tell you all about the old Mel Robbins before she knew this, when we come back. Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and you and I are talking about building the skill of confidence by being willing to try. And so I want to go back and tell you a story about the old Mel Robbins. A lot of you have seen my TEDx talks.

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So I have one of the most popular and most viewed TEDx talks in the world. I think it's got almost 30 million views at this point. It's a TED Talk called How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over. And if you watch my 21-minute long TED Talk, you know what you're witnessing? You are witnessing a 21-minute long panic attack. That was the first official speech I had ever given in my entire life.

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I was terrified of public speaking. I've always been terrified of public speaking. And most people are terrified of public speaking. When I was in elementary school, middle school, high school, college, law school, whatever I got called on in class, bright red. Bright red. My mind would immediately go blank.

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The only job I got out of law school was working for legal aid as a public defender in New York City. And when I had to stand in court all day talking to a judge and a bailiff and police officers and the prosecutor, I was so afraid of speaking out loud as a new attorney. I would get these monster neck rashes all over my neck and chest.

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You know, the kind of rashes that people get when they're nervous or they've had too much to drink or they get an allergic reaction to food. That was Mel Robbins, the early years. You know how I dealt with that neck rash and that fear? I would wrap a scarf around my neck or I'd wear a turtleneck as an attempt to try to hide it.

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In fact, even when I became an on-air commentator for CNN, I was part of their legal team in terms of providing commentary for CNN. I did that for four years. Incredible experience. Never done that before. Why was I willing to do that, knowing that half the time my cheeks would turn bright red? Half the time I'd be worried that I might say something stupid. I'll tell you why.

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Because I understand the skill of confidence. You build it by being willing to try. You have to start at zero. And nobody wants to start at zero. You want to step into this new role and think that you have it all figured out. Well, guess what? You don't. because you've never done this before.

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But if you're willing to try, if you're willing to make mistakes, if you're willing to understand that by showing up every day and trying and trying and learning and failing and falling on your face and dusting yourself off and putting in the work, eventually the competency catches up. And what neuroscience says is what you're actually experiencing

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when you can stand on a stage and you don't have a neck rash that looks like you just got stung by a bee and you're about to go into anaphylactic shock, when you can do that, you want to know why you can do that? It's because the number of times that you've tried have lowered the resistance in your own brain and body to doing it. And so it feels easier. It feels effortless.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited that you're here. I love this topic because I wasn't always this confident. I was super insecure. I was a bit of a liar. Just go right out there and say that. And confident people do not lie. Had a lot of swagger, a lot of bolstering. That's not confidence. Narcissism, not confidence.

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It's not that you, quote, feel more confident. It's that you've built up the competency so that you know how to do it without even thinking about it. By being willing to try, by taking the actions over and over, you removed the doubt. You removed the resistance. You built up knowledge and competency. Isn't that cool? This is so important. I want to give you another example.

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So I was on the way to the airport the other day and I had this great Uber driver and we got to talking because it was kind of a long way to the airport. And I hear all about her life and how she immigrated to the US when she was two and was in an orphanage and came here from Poland. And we get to talking about dreams. And this woman, let me tell you, she is a survivor. She is a fighter.

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She could do anything she put her mind to. And I said, so what's your big dream? And she said, I... would love to have my own home. If I could buy my own home, a place to call mine, that would just be amazing. And I said, well, what's keeping you from working on it? She said, well, I just don't feel confident. I don't feel like I can do that. I doubt myself. I doubt that I have enough money.

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And I said, I think you're making a big mistake. And she said, what do you mean? I said, well, you're sitting here talking about confidence as a feeling. What if I told you that confidence is an action? The definition of confidence is being willing to try, being willing to step towards something before you feel ready. The Uber went silent. You could almost hear the wheels in her head turning.

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And all of a sudden she goes, oh, That part you just said, confidence is an action. Confidence is being willing to try. I never thought about it that way. That's incredible. And I said, well, what did you just get? She said, well, I've been sitting around doubting myself.

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I've been sitting around waiting to feel like it's going to be a certain time and that when I feel confident enough, then I'll start looking. Are you saying... that I just need to start looking now? Are you saying, Mel, that confidence means I'm willing to check this out? I said, yes. I said, if you were confident, if you felt ready, what are the actions you would be taking?

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What would you be trying to do? She said, well, I'd be going to open houses. I'd be looking at houses online. I might even walk into a bank, but right now I'm so full of doubt, I think they'd laugh at me. So I won't even try it. I said, exactly. You have to take the action first. And the more actions you take, the more the feeling catches up, but it begins with the action.

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I said, in fact, and I pulled out my phone and I typed into Google, how do you buy a house with no money down? Hundreds of thousands of videos popped up on YouTube. And I said to her, I said, look, most of these are going to be complete crap, but there will be one, two, three, four videos in there. that will give you the next right step.

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And if you keep taking the next right step, you will be taking the actions to create the dream that you have for yourself. That's how you do it. It was so freaking cool. And if you look at me and you're like, my friend Mel, she's so successful. How did she get that way? It's the exact same thing. It's because I'm willing to try. I'm willing to start at zero.

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I'm willing to keep showing up over and over and over again and trying and trying despite my doubt, despite my fire engine red cheeks, despite my flush neck. And over time, by doing exactly what I'm teaching you to do, I went from somebody who was terrified of public speaking to becoming one of the most talented, respected, and requested and booked public speakers in the entire world.

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And that's what's available to you today. Whether you wanna buy that first house and you've been doubting yourself, or you wanna get over your fear of public speaking, or there's something else that you believe confidence is gonna help you do.

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The other thing I want to talk about really quickly is I know that what you think you're up against, Heather, and if you're struggling with confidence, is that, oh, imposter syndrome. I got imposter syndrome. Because you haven't done this before. See, I see imposter syndrome as a really good thing.

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Because when you feel like an imposter in a role, that's just a fancy way of saying you're trying something new. And so starting today, if you're in the game of building confidence, everybody, you got to open your arms. You got to reach out for that imposter syndrome. Because if you don't have imposter syndrome, you're not doing anything uncomfortable.

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And if there's one thing I've learned in life after 54 years is that it's only by making yourself face things that are uncomfortable that that you're going to grow into the best version of yourself. If you always do the things that you're comfortable doing, you will never, ever, ever experience what might be possible because you're not pushing yourself.

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True confidence is something you build from within. True confidence is a connection that you have to yourself and a belief in self. It's not about arrogance. And we're gonna unpack this today because absolutely anyone can build the skill of confidence. And I love teaching this. I love the science around it. I love the simple steps you can take. And so I'm gonna share all of that with you today.

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And so I don't want you to fear imposter syndrome. I want you to see it as a good thing. Oh, I feel like an imposter. Great. I'm trying something new. This is confidence building. Here we go. And speaking of the myth that imposter syndrome is a bad thing. No, no, no, no, no. You're learning.

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When it comes to building confidence, you got to embrace that imposter syndrome because it means you're trying and you're learning and you're gaining competency. And we love that around here. I'm going to teach you three other myths about confidence. I'm going to use a question from a listener named Alex to help us unpack it.

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But first, we're going to take a quick break for our sponsors because they helped me bring this toolkit to you at zero cost. And then we're going to be right back with Alex's question and those three myths about confidence. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Mel Robbins.

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And today we are talking confidence, the science, and most importantly, five tools that you need in your life to build the skill of confidence. And we're about to jump into three myths related to confidence with a question from a listener named Alex.

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Alex, great question. And this allows us to talk about myth number one about confidence. And that myth is that confident people are the loudest and most extroverted in the room. So first things first, Alex, stop beating yourself up. Because you're a little bit more introverted. And what I can tell based on your question is that you do want to be more visible.

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You do want to have a breakthrough in the skill of confidence because you do want to be somebody that's contributing your ideas. So I want to tell you the truth about confident people. Confident people are very often the quiet people in the room. There's a huge difference between confidence and bravado. You know, they're not the same thing. Confidence has nothing to do with swagger.

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It has nothing to do with how much you talk or blab on and on in class. If you're truly confident You don't have to prove anything to anybody because you know that confidence is simply being willing to try. It's not about being extroverted or introverted. Confidence is not a personality trait. Confidence is a skill that you can build. And so I want you to also be honest with yourself.

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Go back to being selfish in this episode because you're talking about these high achievers and you're not naturally an extrovert. If you're selfish, Alex, how would the skill of confidence change the way you're showing up? Because if you answer, oh, I would talk more in class, Oh, I would advocate more for my ideas.

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Oh, I would raise my hand and I would put my name in the ring for certain opportunities before stopping myself and thinking about it. Great, use the definition of confidence now to push yourself to try those things that you believe that more confidence would be having you do. That's how you're going to build competency in those things you're not doing now.

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Let me tell you the second myth about confidence. See, a lot of people believe that confidence is built when you're winning. Not true. Not true. The truth is that confidence is like steel. It's forged in the fire of your life. You don't create the skill of confidence when life is easy. Confidence, that reserve, that skill that you build, it's created in the moments that are hard.

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And I also want to say, if you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. And if somebody's shared this episode with you, do not take offense. Like, you know, don't be like, what, do they think I'm not confident? They think, what? We can all strengthen this skill.

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Confidence requires you to try. It requires you to feel like an imposter. It requires you to start at zero. It requires you to do things that you've never done before. And if you're naturally more introverted, sometimes speaking in class can be as scary as skydiving. But that's okay because you can try and you can fail and your cheeks can turn bright red. And you know what?

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You're not going to die. It's going to be okay. Because you're willing to try and learn. And that's what's at the heart of this skill. It's curiosity. It's leaning forward. It's trying. It's action. And here's the third myth about confidence. You know, I often hear people say, I lost my confidence. Nope, nope, you didn't. The truth is you cannot lose confidence.

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See, you're just blocked from the feeling of it because you stopped trying, which is the source of it. So let me give you an example. If you sit there and say, you know, oh, I must've lost some confidence along the way because now I'm around all these great achievers and they're always talking in class and I feel like a complete idiot.

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No, no, you haven't lost anything because what's the definition of confidence? Confidence is the willingness to try. If you're around all these high achievers, it's because you belong there and it's because you're meant to grow. And that resistance and pressure that you feel internally, do not aim that at yourself as if something's wrong with you.

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There's no difference between the high achievers and you, Alex. The only difference is your willingness to try something that's a little scary, to show up, to be seen, to share your ideas. You know, there's this TED Talk that I absolutely love called Who Are You Really? And it's by Dr. Brian Little. He's a professor over in the UK.

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And the entire 20-minute talk is all about the fact that he's profoundly introverted in his life. But because teaching matters to him, he has taught himself how to be profoundly extroverted when he's teaching a class. Now, it's wildly draining for him because he's an introvert, but I'm trying to tell you, you're not in a fixed place.

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And confidence is a skill you can build if you're willing to try. And I can tell you are because it matters to you. Okay, I'm now gonna teach you the five simple tools that help you build this as a skill. Tool number one, take action. This is obvious, I understand. We have the definition of confidence. Confidence is the willingness to try.

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And what it means if somebody shared this with you is that they really care about you and they care about your success and they want to see you stop torturing yourself and doubting yourself because they believe in you and it's time for you to believe in you. And that's what confidence is about. And we're going to unpack it today.

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You're not gonna change your life or build confidence by thinking about the things you need to do. You must take action. the number one tool for helping you take action in those moments where you feel imposter syndrome or you feel nervous or you're embarrassed or you start to doubt yourself or you feel anxious. Whatever the feeling is, screw the feeling.

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We got to take action in those moments because remember, we're building confidence. It's going to require you to try. Just use my five-second rule. I told you the whole story about how I created it, the science behind it in the episode we released way back in the day called Motivation is Garbage. I'll link to that. But if you're brand new to the podcast, let me give you the shortcut.

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When you're in a situation where you start to doubt yourself, You're just gonna count backwards, five, four, three, two, one, and then you physically move within five seconds. So here's how you can use it. Heather's talking about the fact that she wants to build confidence in this new role where she's been promoted.

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There are things that she needs to do as a new leader, but she doesn't have the competency yet. Instead of thinking about those things, she can use the five-second rule, five, four, three, two, one, to interrupt that self-doubt It will help you tap into your courage. That's it. That's all that it is.

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For Alex, who is surrounded by all these high achievers, the next time she's sitting in a classroom and she has something that she wants to share, instead of shrinking in her seat, she's going to try. And the five-second rule is going to help. Five, four, three, two, one. And then she's gonna shoot that hand up in the air because you know what? Alex has something to say.

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And even though she doesn't feel comfortable, even though her cheeks might go fire engine red, and even though she might stutter or stumble or have dry mouth or whatever might happen, five, four, three, two, one, she is willing to try. Because here's something I want you to understand. You can tap into courage before you start having that feeling of assuredness. Courage is what you tap into.

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And one of the reasons why I wanted to do this today, because I've been thinking about, okay, what could I drop as an episode this weekend? that would really give you something to gnaw on, that would be really useful, that you could take into next week, that would make a big difference, not just like listen and entertain and pass the time, but what's worthy of spending your time on.

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Confidence is what you're building over time. I'm going to say that again. Courage comes first. Courage, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. You start counting backwards, man, that is an act of courage because you're going for it. Courage comes first. confidence is what builds over time. How cool is that, right?

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I absolutely love this because what I'm ultimately teaching you, and this again relates to all the research, is that there's two types of people out there. There are people who think about what they want to do. And then there are people that find the courage to take action. And that's what I want for you. Because the fact is you have greatness inside you. And I want you to start tapping into it.

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It's only through action that you unlock that power inside you and you become the person that you're meant to be. I mean, that's how I created the life that I have now. If I didn't learn how to 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, push myself to try, I'd still be sleeping in a bed, staring at the ceiling, consumed with anxiety, feeling like I had ruined my life. That's how you change your life.

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You have to take action over and over and over again. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, stop thinking and start taking some risks. Start trying. Put a bet on yourself. Let's freaking go. Now let's do rule number two. Rule number two is if you just tremble in your boots when you think about doing the things that you'd love to do, let's get selfish. What is it that more confidence would have you be doing differently?

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When you think about those things, speaking up at work, Launching your business, tackling your health issues, putting your online dating profile up and getting yourself back out there because you're ready and you're ready to have some fun again. When you start thinking about how confidence would change your life, I guarantee you, you're still going to feel a little nervous.

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So here's a second tool that's going to help you try. You can use the power of objectivity. Create an alter ego. This can be fun, you know? We don't have to like white knuckle this confidence thing. Let's have some fun with it because there's a study out of Johns Hopkins that I love. And it's about letting go of self-doubt. And the study suggests that when you use an alter ego...

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or you create a vision of the future you, the person you want to become, it gives you distance from the scaredy cat you who's never done this thing before. You know what I always ask myself? I go, well, what would The Rock do in this situation? I just love Dwayne Johnson, The Rock. I constantly use him when it comes to confidence. What would The Rock do in this moment?

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And I always get an answer and it feels less personal. You can use the rock. You can use me. What would Mel do if you're feeling unsure and you want to tap into the confidence that you kind of pick up on for me? And this also taps into behavioral activation therapy. Decades of research show that when you start acting like the person you want to become in the future now,

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in your present life, it's one of the fastest ways for you to change your mindset, for you to create new habits. Why? Because when you start acting like the person you want to become, you start acting like that person today, what are you doing? You're trying. You're trying to act like the future you would act. So let's go back to our first question, Heather.

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Maybe you see them and they're talking on stage or presenting something or maybe it's a friend of yours and they just seem to make one bold decision after another. Nothing bothers them. Somebody criticizes them, rolls off their back. Maybe they jump out of a job and then they're starting a business. And you know what? I want to tell you something. These people, they are not special.

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When she acts like the Heather two years from now, who's now gotten another promotion because she just slayed it in this role. The Heather today is trying to be the Heather she wants to become. Isn't that cool? Alex sitting in the classroom, surrounded by all these high achievers.

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And this is a topic that is worth your time. And so let's just cut to the chase. And I'm gonna be super clear about this. Confidence is not something you're born with. It is not some magic trait that only a lucky few people have. Confidence is a skill. And just like any other skill, you can learn it, you can practice it, and you can master it. And it doesn't matter where you're starting from.

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When she acts like the Alex she wants to be two years from now, who's earned her doctorate, who is able to express her ideas. When she acts like that version of herself, she's trying. How cool is this? It all just ladders right back to the research. That's why you can trust what I'm telling you. Another tool that you can use to build the skill of confidence is prepare.

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Because the more that you practice something, the more you're trying and the more competent you're going to be. So if you are nervous and you can't shake the nerves, double down on preparing. That's right, do rehearsals, run through it. Why? Because every time you rehearse something, you're trying it.

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And it gives your mind and your nervous system the ability to lower the stress because your mind and your nervous system have prepared so you know what's coming. See, practice doesn't make perfect. Practice prepares you. And what's one other thing about practice? What's the first thing that you learned about confidence? Again, I come back to the definition. It's the willingness to try.

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That's how you put the definition into life by practicing, preparing for something, practicing something over and over and over. Whether you're, you know, like the Williams sisters who literally stood there and hit balls and hit balls and hit balls and hit balls and hit balls before they were even allowed to enter a tournament. What were they doing? They're building the skill of confidence.

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You want to be confident? Prove it by preparing. I use this all the time. I laugh like, you know, you see me get in front of a YouTube camera or you see me walk onto a stage or you listen to one of my audio books. You're like, how do you do that? I've prepared. I mean, just think back into your own life. Think about those moments in high school or college where you weren't prepared for the test.

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How nervous were you? You were shaking in your boots. You couldn't even concentrate. You knew walking into the test that you were screwed. Now think about a moment when you actually studied, which is just you practicing. You feel calmer, more assured. Why? Because you were willing to try by sitting in the stacks in the library instead of going out. And that's what I'm talking about.

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This is something you build. Let me tell you about tool number four. I love this. This is a mindset reframe. Because you got the five-second rule. You've got the power of objectivity. What would Mel or The Rock do? You've got preparation. And now let me give you a mindset trick. I love this. I tell myself all the time why it's worth trying.

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Why is it worth trying something if I'm only going to fail? Why is it worth going for it if I can't make my dreams come true? I'll tell you why. Because everything that you do in life is preparing you for something that hasn't happened yet. What did I tell you about confidence? Confidence is not something you build when you're winning

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I think oftentimes when we're winning, what gets built is arrogance and bravado. And we forget what went into winning at something in the first place. True confidence, the skill of confidence, it's forged in fire. I mean, I've failed more times than I have time to tell you. You guys know that a decade ago, talk about failure, 800 grand in debt, unemployed, drinking my way through my problems.

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And all of that heartbreak and headache and breakdown in my life, which was horrendous to go through, it led me to the five second rule. If there was no debt, there was no drinking, there was no heartache, there would be no five second rule. When I was a talk show host, here I was taping a talk show at CBS Broadcast Center here in New York City.

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It was a dream of mine to be able to have a daytime talk show. It gets canceled. It was leading me somewhere. Where? To this podcast, which is my most favorite thing that I've ever done in my career. I choose not to stay in a place of self-doubt. I choose not to wallow in failure because I know that life is always preparing you for something.

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And I know that your greatest failures, your biggest heartbreaks, they always teach you the most important lessons in life. You know, and I keep getting questions from you guys. Mel, oh my God, you're so confident. Like you keep reinventing yourself. You keep trying new things like this podcast. What is it inside you, Mel?

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What is it inside me that makes me take all these risks, that makes me constantly try new things, that makes me willing to fail, to do something embarrassing or even disastrous? I'll tell you what it is. I want to get as much out of this life as I possibly can. And if you look at the math, I'm halfway through it.

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It doesn't matter if you feel stuck right now or you're unsure. It doesn't matter, by the way, if you think you're confident. Because even if you think you're confident,

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And it scares me to think that I could be on my deathbed and look back on my life and say, I wish I had had the confidence to try that. I do not want to die and have regrets. And so while I'm here, while I'm breathing, while I'm able to, I am going to follow my curiosity. I am going to follow my heart. I am going to try new things. I am going to do absolutely everything that I can do to grow.

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to feel, to learn. And that's going to require me to take risks. That's going to require me to fuck up things. That's going to require me to look stupid. And I'm willing to do that because I know on the other side of the biggest heartbreaks of your life are the most amazing heart-filled moments.

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I know that in the middle of every failure that I experience, and boy, I experience them oftentimes of my own doing, every single failure has, honest to God, equipped me with the lessons and the skill or the wisdom that I needed to to be able to do something even cooler down the line. And I can prove it to you. Just look back on one of the scariest moments of your life.

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One of the biggest things that you just blew. I bet you can tell me that that horrible thing that happened, that really hard thing that in the moment you were like, why is this happening to me? That right now, no matter what your life looks like, you can sit here and you know exactly what you learned from it. You know that you would not be the person you are today

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there is a level that's deeper that you can access that is that quiet steely oh my god you kind of scare people confidence that's when you really start to master when there's like a peace in the amount of power and connection you have with yourself and faith that you have in yourself

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had it not been for that thing that you experience, that you survive, that you learn from. And so what drives me is just wanting to experience as much as I can from this one life that I have. And it's not all gonna be a joy ride. And so I'm willing to take the risk. I'm willing to try. I'm willing to look stupid. And I'm willing to do it because I think the payoff that you get, it's worth it.

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It's so worth it. So this moment is preparing me for something that hasn't happened yet. And that reframe, what it does is it helps me put failure and heartbreak and all the hard shit in life into a box. that is something that stays by my side as I move forward instead of a wall or a block or an obstacle that stops me from continuing to move forward. Because that's how you move forward.

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You continue to try. And the final tool when it comes to building the skill of confidence is you have to focus on you because nobody's coming. Like nobody's going to try for you. Nobody is going to be there to motivate you to try. Nobody's going to be there to give you the pep talk. I'm here twice a week.

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It really is my mission that our relationship through this podcast is one where you feel empowered and encouraged and you're reminded of who you are, that this is like a little reset, a pep talk, that you get the tools and the encouragement and the high five that you need. But ultimately, it's up to you.

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And you got to learn how to stop looking at the world around you and what everybody and their mother is doing. And you got to look right back in the mirror because you are the one person that you're going to spend your whole life with. And it's time that you start to focus on that person and getting into a better relationship with that person called you.

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And that brings me to a question from one of our listeners named Sky.

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Oh, Skye. I love how you ended that question. Everybody be kind to yourself. Let's take that because it's true, Skye. So first things, I just want to say, Skye, really proud of you. I'm really proud of you for having the self-awareness to realize that your own habits around social media were... impacting you negatively. You did something about it.

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And you also notice that taking positive action based on your self-awareness, I bet it started to build a little bit of confidence back, right? Right? Absolutely. So I want to say something about social media, everybody. Social media is not good or bad. I'm going to say it again. Social media is not good or bad. I think how we use it is terrible.

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Most of us are complete idiots when it comes to social media because we give our number one commodity mindlessly away. What is our number one commodity? Our attention. When's the last time you've curated intentionally based on your goals and your dreams? When is the last time that you curated the accounts that you follow?

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And so I don't care how you're showing up right now, whether life has knocked you down or you're listening because you've got a monster of a game to play. And you know your friend Mel Robbins. I am a competitive MF-er when it comes to business. I do not screw around. I am very intentional. You do not want to be on the other side of a business negotiation with me because you will lose.

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If you want to have a massive breakthrough in happiness, in confidence, in your goals, in your mindset, in your mental health, let me tell you something. Delete every account that you follow.

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Write out what your goals are, how you wanna feel, and then curate a list of accounts that you follow based on their alignment with the way that you wanna feel and the things that you want to accomplish in your life. I say that most of us are complete idiots about social media because we follow stuff and we give our attention to content that makes us feel like crap.

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And so you're doing that to yourself.

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If you were to delete all the accounts, the celebrities, the mindless crap, the memes, the supermodels that are crazy thin, that make you feel like shit about yourself, the people that are driving Lambos that make you think that you're a loser, the only thing you'd be missing out if you delete all of those is the self-doubt, the self-sabotage, the self-criticism, and the loser mentality that that shit creates in your mind.

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A lot of times what happens when it comes to confidence...

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is that the stuff that you're allowing into your brain is decreasing your willingness to try because it's making you feel like you're a loser compared to everything that you see, which by the way is fake, and that you feel bad at the end of the day because you blew three hours mindlessly looking at crap when you got big dreams and goals to fulfill for yourself.

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You think Beyonce, who has now won more Grammys than anybody else on the planet, you think she wastes three hours a day on social media? I don't think so. Do you think the accounts that she follows are for her goals and her dreams and for her mental health and confidence or against them? Just ask yourself that. And so number one, you got to focus on you.

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And that means getting serious about what you let into your mind. And so takeaway now, like delete who you follow. If I make you feel bad, do not follow me on social media. Don't do it. Only follow people and accounts and content that help you, that inspire you, that lift you up, that entertain you, that make you feel good. You're giving them your attention.

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They're making money off your attention. Please take it seriously. And here's one more thing. Think about what you put out. Does what you post create self-doubt? Or are you willing to try using social media in a way where you can be yourself? Where you don't need the filter. You don't need the perfect photo.

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You don't need to worry about getting the right thing up so that people saw that you were at the party and the right look and the this, that, and the other. And you were so worried about it. You're in the bathroom posting and you don't even enjoy the party. Are you willing to just be you?

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That is how confident I am. And so this is a skill I am constantly working on. So if you're looking to level up your game or make more money, you, my friend, are in the right place. Because you do those things not by bluster. You do those things by building steely confidence and faith and belief in yourself. That's how you do it. So here's what we're going to do.

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Because so much of the self-doubt that we all feel is because we spend so much of our time and energy and attention focusing on things that don't matter. And so I'm not surprised, Sky, that getting off social media helped because you realized the input was making you doubt yourself.

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You realized that you were wasting time and you realized that there was some crazy power that came back to you when you were willing to try a different way. And so again, I don't think that social media is good or bad. I think how we use it is terrible and you can use it for good.

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And I just explained that if you are willing to try and get very serious about your goals and how you want to feel, social media can be a huge, huge additive in helping you achieve those things because you'll see examples of people that are also trying. You'll see The Rock or other people that inspire you, that will inspire you to try bigger things.

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You'll see positive accounts that remind you that yes, you are bigger than this moment, that this moment is leading you somewhere and you have within you not only the willingness to try, but you have the willingness to face absolutely anything in your life and you have the ability to take action, which is what changes everything. Confidence is your birthright. It is a skill that you build.

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It is a habit that you keep. It does for all of us. And you are going to fall. You are going to fail. You are going to have dark moments. You are going to feel lost.

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And what I want you to know is if you are willing to get up every single day and dust yourself off and learn the lesson and tell yourself that every day you're getting a little bit better and you are the kind of person that knows that eventually this is leading you where you meant to go and you're just gonna get up and you're gonna try again and you're gonna do that thing, you, my friend,

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are not only going to be practicing and building confidence, you are going to feel it too. In case nobody else tells you, I'm going to tell you that I love you. I believe in you and I believe in your ability to try the things that scare it out of you.

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And I believe in your ability to tap into the power inside you and this one extraordinary, ordinary life that you have and make it everything that you want it to be because you deserve that. All right. I love you. I'll talk to you in a few days.

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Here we go. Okay. Here we go. Oh, are you ready? Okay. Let's have some fun. And it's like, Oh, like I, hold on a second. It's like, and that's what we're going to talk about next. Wait, what is it? Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Wait, hold on. Oh, gotcha. Okay. I got, sorry. And the, and the, hold on a second. Okay. Fabulous. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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In today's conversation, I'm just gonna break it all down for you using questions from listeners around the world. And we're gonna go through the exact steps that can take you from feeling uncertain or stuck or insecure or beating yourself up or questioning or all of the BS that a lack of confidence creates in your life

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Stitcher.

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to starting to build this skill so you can tap into it and start taking risks and start believing in yourself. Start taking different actions. Start speaking up for yourself. Start making more money. Start swinging for bigger clients. How about the confidence to leave the relationship that you know isn't right for you? How about them apples? I mean, that would be pretty cool. Don't you think?

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How about the confidence to have some boundaries? How about the confidence to not take people's crap as much as you do? That'd be pretty awesome. I know it would be. So how about we dig into this? And one more thing. If you're sitting here listening to this today and you're like, God, I'd like to ask Mel a question. Great. Let's take the first step. MelRobbins.com slash podcast.

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Get in there and let's go. And speaking of going, it's time for us to get going on this masterclass. And here's how I want to start it. I want to start it by giving some credit to one of your fellow listeners. Her name is Heather, and she is the one who submitted this question. And it inspired me to have this conversation with you today.

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Heather, I absolutely love that you asked this question. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love the topic of confidence. The very confident Mel Robbins that you see right now is not the woman I used to be. And I have spent years researching this topic. and also teaching it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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And so everything that I am going to share with you today is grounded in decades of research, the latest studies, and it all comes from a big body of work that I've published. One of the most popular courses on LinkedIn is called The Science of Confidence, and your friend Mel Robbins created it and teaches it for LinkedIn.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Confidence isn't just something that some people are born with. It is built over time. And look, I know that I probably am one of the most confident people that you have in your life. I didn't start out this way. I may have had some swagger, but it was a bunch of BS. There's a difference between being like loud on the outside and true grounded confidence on the inside.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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There's a lot that I have to share about this that I can't wait for you to learn. So Heather, and you listening, When you have more confidence, you get paid more, you will have a better job, you will be more admired by people, you will be listened to with more intention, you'll have greater influence. And confidence is a topic and a skill that I want absolutely everybody to learn.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Because based on the research, confidence is for all of us. Anybody can learn the five simple tools that are grounded in the research in order to build greater confidence, in order to break through self-doubt. The more that you build confidence in your life, the greater the ability to say no and not even be bothered by what other people are going to feel. Why?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Because you realize you would rather be respected than be liked. And see, this need to be liked or to look good is part of the reason why you doubt yourself all the time. I want you to bring that power back internally. That's what the skill of confidence does. So I think it kind of begs the question, if confidence is something that we all want, why is it so hard to master? I'll tell you why.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Because when it comes to the research around confidence, it is some of the most dry, boring, boring. No offense to the confidence researchers and writers out there. But I'm talking if you have trouble sleeping, just print out a study about confidence. That'll put you into deep REM sleep. It's also confusing. And even Google isn't much of a help on this topic.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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If you search how to be confident, you know what the top results, one of them says, be true to you. What the hell does that even mean? Be true to you. And honestly, be true to you. That is not what the research says.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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The problem and why it's hard for people to develop the skill of confidence is the research has not been boiled down into tactical information that you can apply to your day-to-day life. And that's where your friend Mel Robbins comes in. So here's your first assignment on today's podcast, because you know we're not just listening here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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This is a doing podcast, and we're going to make this tactical and relevant immediately. Assignment number one, I want you to listen a particular way. I want you to listen and think what's in it for me. And so let me ask you a question. If you had more confidence, like I could go and boom, you have more confidence than you've ever had in your entire life. How would your life be different?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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How would your future be different? Now, Heather has already shared that she has this awesome promotion, which she clearly earned. I mean, businesses don't just give those out as charity. If a business has promoted or hired you, they believe in your ability to execute. But now she's freaking out. Now, when you think about confidence, how would more confidence help Heather's life be different?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Well, confidence would allow Heather to step into that role, right? And she would be able to lose the self-doubt and the imposter syndrome and the panicking. And she'd be able to act like the leader that the organization promoted her to be, right? Without all the like nervousness and crap going on in her head. What about you? Let's get selfish.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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What would more confidence allow you to do that you're not currently doing? Would you be able to say no? Would you be better with boundaries? Are there more risks you would take? Is there a conversation you've been avoiding with yourself or someone else? Would you be able to stand up for yourself, advocate more for yourself, ask for what you need? What about work? Would you be more visible?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Would you speak up more? All of that that you just envisioned, it's all within your reach. And so let's talk about something that Heather said. Heather said in her question that she doesn't quote, feel confident in the new role. I don't feel confident. And so I want to start by giving you a definition of confidence that will change your ability to build it as a skill.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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This definition of confidence I have been sharing for years, and I think I created it based on the research because I haven't really seen it out there before. And this definition is going to surprise you because it's a definition of confidence that puts the research into action. See, here's the mistake that everybody makes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this is because I have been seeing so many questions come in from listeners around the world about confidence. How do you gain it? How do you keep it? How do you build it back when life knocks you down? And the fact is, confidence is a skill. It's a skill that you can learn. It's a skill that you can build.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Heather made the mistake because she said that I don't, quote, feel confident. And I bet you're making this mistake with confidence too. Based on the research, that's where we get it wrong. Confidence is not a feeling. Confidence is embodied in action. My definition of confidence is confidence is the willingness to try. I'm going to say it again.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Your new definition of confidence embodied by the research, confidence is the willingness to try. Confidence is an action. That's what it is. And this phenomenon has been heavily researched by social psychologists. See, there's this positive feedback loop that happens when you're willing to try something before you feel ready.

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Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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When you're willing to step into that leadership role and put yourself out there and take risks and make mistakes and shove that self-doubt to the side. When you're willing to try something neuroscience research says that you create something called a confidence-competence loop. And let me explain this to you because there's a lot of common sense here, right?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Every single time you try something new, you're either going to be really good at it or you're going to be terrible at it, right? But you always learn something. but you have to try. So Heather is going to step into this new role. She's trying out a new role. She's either going to be really good at it or she's going to be miserable at it. But here's the thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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If you try something for the first time, You're either going to fail or succeed, but you always learn something. And that's where this confidence, competence loop and the neuroscience research comes in. Because even when you try, when you learn a little something, you gain a little competency, right? So the second time, because of everything that you learned the first time around,

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it gets a little bit easier. It gets a little bit better, but it all begins with being willing to try no matter where you're starting from. Because if you are the kind of person that's always willing to try, you will always grow and you will always learn.

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Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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And the more that you try and the more that you learn, the less you doubt yourself, the less resistance that you have and bada bing, bada boom, all of a sudden you feel confident in this new role. All of a sudden you feel confident doing a backflip off a boat because you tried a thousand times and your belly flopped and you embarrassed yourself and you got a wedgie. And then what do you know?

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Because you were willing to keep trying, all of that competency gained of trying over and over and over and over again. It's how you gained mastery. Feeling confident is kind of, it's almost like the wrong way to say it because that's what you feel after you've done it over and over and over again. But true confidence begins the moment you're willing to try, okay?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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And so I really think it's important. I can give you another example. The first time somebody handed me chopsticks, I had no idea how to use them. Was I nervous about... picking them up and I couldn't get like my fingers to twist in the way that you're supposed to. And it was super embarrassed and they kept like flipping across the table. And here's the thing, I didn't know how to use them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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But isn't it common sense that there's no way I was going to learn how to use them if I wasn't willing to try? See, being confident and the skill of confidence is the difference between saying, sure, hand me the chopsticks. I'd love to try. I'm willing to look like an idiot. I'm willing to be a beginner first versus going, can you get me a fork? I don't know how to use those.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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It's a skill that you need and deserve in your life. And once you understand the simple science and research about how you build the skill of confidence, you got it. You can tap into it anytime, anywhere, any way that you want when you want it to show up in your life. And today I'm taking your questions and I'm going to teach you the science of confidence so you can learn the skill. Let's go.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Doubting Yourself: 5 Tips to Boost Your Confidence

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Do you see the difference? The skill begins with being willing to try. You gotta remember what you're seeing is a person on the Today Show who has been working hard for 10 years, trying over and over and over and over and learning and failing. That's what you're witnessing. You're witnessing competency, but the skill is something different. The skill of confidence is trying.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Let's be real. Dating today feels broken. I mean, if you've ever caught yourself wondering, why is it so hard to find someone normal? Why does it always end in disappointment or something weird? Why is everybody out there a freak? I mean, no, seriously. I want you to know something.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Oh, okay. This is a really huge point. And I wanna take out a highlighter and I wanna make sure that as you're listening to this, whether this is relevant to you or one of your parents or friends sent this to you, and now you're listening to this because it's relevant to you or somebody that you love, you are right. You are absolutely right.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so I want you to separate the psychology of dating and the stuff that's been going on forever. People were ghosting people before we had a word for it. Yeah, it's called, he didn't call me back. He doesn't like me. She doesn't like you. So there is, say the three things again, because this is part of the psychology of really liking someone and them not liking you back.

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It's also the psychology of meeting another human being and having expectations about how it's supposed to go and then it not meeting them. So you said three things. There was that they don't like you back. they don't call you back and all of a sudden disappear and that it's hard to meet somebody that you connect with. And that's been true forever.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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The thing I will push back on just a little is that I think one of the things that the technology has done that is fantastic is it's opened you up to a world of options and people and all of these choices so that you can meet people that aren't just in your friend group or aren't just one friend removed or aren't at the building that you're working in, which is a wonderful thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And this episode could be the moment that changes everything for you or someone you love. So let's get into it. Is it just me or does it feel impossible to stay in touch with and see your friends? I feel it.

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But it has also trained people to believe there's someone else out there and that maybe there's someone better. And so I think it has magnified the inconsiderate behavior and the immature behavior and some of the toxic behavior that has always been part of dating. It just happens more because of the fact that people have other options. And so I do think that it's a convergence of both of those.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And I'm glad that you said it, Logan, because it really validates for somebody. It's not just me.

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And I'm really glad that you separated the app itself from actual behavior that you're going to have to... learn and build skills around to tolerate rejection and to also learn how to really choose the kind of love and relationship that you want. That if somebody's not treating you the way that you would like to be treated, Why would you want to be with them?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And you've got to learn to see it not as an indictment that dating is horrific, that this is just one more person that doesn't deserve to be in your life because they're not treating you the way that you deserve to be treated.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And I want you to stick around to the very end of this episode for a special segment where I'm going to talk all about the importance of staying connected to your friends and a ton of simple ways you can do it. And I want to give a big shout out to our sponsor of this bonus segment, Celebrity Cruises. You can learn more at celebritycruises.com. Visit celebrity.com for details.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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I love that you're sharing this. And one of my missions in this episode is to really get the person listening to understand there's a difference between using the app to facilitate meeting people and what actually happens when you start meeting people. And it brings to mind something that I wanted to talk to you about.

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It was something that I saw Professor Scott Galloway say, who is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business. He's a podcaster, best-selling author. I'm a big fan of his. And I saw him speaking at this event. He was on stage. And what he basically said is that dating has been consolidated in the worst way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He says, when you have 50 men on Tinder and 50 women, 46 of the women show all their attention to just four men. Which basically means we have this concentration of interest and you end up with situations where only 10% of the men are getting 90% of the attention. And as a mom of two daughters in their 20s, I often hear the complaining by the women using the apps.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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but I'm also the mother of a 19-year-old son, and it never even occurred to me, wait a minute, like all the short guys are getting like just completely wiped off the side. Everybody's going for the same people's profiles online. And I would imagine that since dating apps, and just everybody stop and think about this, dating apps are providing a platform for you to meet somebody.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But the people that show up on the dating apps don't. They have preferences and unconscious bias and probably ridiculous expectations and closed minds. And so I would imagine that you're seeing this everywhere, that there's this concentration of interest. And you said it about the bar, too, that if you think about going to a bar on a Friday night,

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People go and notice like three or four people and they're the same people that everybody's eyeing up and down and wishing they could go up and talk to. Same thing happens on the apps.

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And I would imagine you're seeing this both men, women, whether or not you're somebody who is LBGTQ, whether or not you are black, you're Hispanic, whether or not you're a certain religion, that it's the behavior of the people and their bias and preference that actually drives a lot of this too.

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Ships registry, Malta and Ecuador. Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins. I am so fired up that you're here. This is gonna be an extraordinary episode. I know that you're gonna share this with absolutely everybody that you love because the topic is fire and it's relevant and you need to hear this. And I just wanna say it's always an honor to get to spend some time and be together with you.

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I bet you see this across every single thing, whether it's religion or race or sexual preference or what city you live in. And you have people have these ridiculous expectations that then wipe out. And then that actually not only changes what you see, but it changes like the data that you guys are getting. So it's the user behavior.

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But there were other resources for them to go to more events. Okay. Oh my God. I just like want to die for that person right now. Okay. But you're not going to die alone. That's the title of your book. You're not going to die alone. Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love this analogy. So what is the specific advice to the person listening? Do you just remove all filters? Like, what do you recommend that someone do if you're in that camp where you're frustrated and you're blaming the algorithm, but you haven't actually ever looked at your own filters?

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And if you're brand new, I wanna take a moment before we jump into this topic and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I think we're gonna have a lot of new listeners to this episode because this is such an important topic that I bet somebody shared this with you. And I also know that you're the type of person that values your time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And for the people that feel like they're not picky enough, but they're just like overwhelmed, overwhelmed, overwhelmed, and really bummed by the choices, what is the advice there?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, that's incredible. I need to make sure that you just heard that. The more that you put yourself in the driver's seat by commenting, by pursuing people that you're interested in or potentially interested in, by talking to people in real life, the less burnt out you're going to be.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And I would imagine the more likely you're going to actually meet somebody that you can have a meaningful relationship with. This brings me to a question that I got from a listener named Hannah. She is 28 years old. And The question is, in my experience, it seems like whenever you go out in public, everyone, men and women, only hang out with their friend group. No one is branching out.

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No one is walking up to people to say hello. No one is interested in meeting new people. Is this true or is this just me?

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The reason why it's easier to do this on your phone is because you don't have to deal with any of the psychological friction of walking up to a stranger in a bar and striking up a conversation. And so there's an active avoidance. See, I don't think that... that people want to necessarily be on the phone. I think we've trained ourselves to default to the easier thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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When I read Hannah's thing, and I'm going to echo exactly what you've been saying, is that no one is interested in meeting new people in real life. Is this true? Is it just me? I would say, yes, it's true, and it's you. And this ends the second you push yourself to turn and talk to people in real life. Yeah. That again, the fact that the apps are out there, they facilitate connection.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And I promise you, this is going to be worth your time because there are a lot of you that listen that are in a committed relationship, but there's a lot of people that listen or that are in your life who are not. They're struggling. And I want you to know, I'm seeing it. I'm seeing it with the people that I love in my life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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But if you're not actually talking to and striking up conversation with and talking to people in real life that you're drawn to, then you're, in my opinion, not actually dating. Right. you're being lazy. You're sitting around hoping the app is going to facilitate this when you've got to be an active participant in creating the thing that you want.

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And the truth is there's people all around you, not just on your phone, but it is scary to walk up to somebody. It's awkward to strike up the conversation. And if you're not in the mode of just casually talking to people that you find kind of interesting, You're never going to do it because you've got the easier option.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, one of the questions that I was curious about is what, Logan, are some of the most common patterns that people of all ages fall into when it comes to dating and, you know, being online and how can they start breaking them?

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I'm seeing the struggles in the inbox as you're writing in from around the world, whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. It is hard out there. In fact, I remember when my mother-in-law was a widower and she wanted to put herself out there, so we tried to get her on the apps. And it was frustrating. That was a decade ago. And it seems to have only gotten worse.

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I think this not taking a risk is a much bigger thing. Me too. And for women in particular, if you look back at just sort of the messaging of Prince Charming coming and being rescued and finding your soulmate, there is this illusion that someone else is going to pick you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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and what you're saying over and over and over again, especially to women, but this goes to you guys too, that there is an essential part of being willing to put yourself out there.

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And look, I know it takes a lot to get yourself on the apps and put yourself out there, but there is a part in real life that you need to be doing at the same time when you bump into somebody that's really interesting, regardless of your age, regardless of your gender. You know, one other thing I wanted to just quickly ask you about

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is that I've also noticed this trend of kids that go to college and stay with their high school sweetheart. And that almost like one of the things that my daughter said, it wasn't only in college, but now that they're out of college, she said so many of her friends are so discouraged by the dating that they've gone back to an ex that they know.

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I'm wondering if you're just seeing anything in your research like that too.

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And I wanted to do something about it. So I've called in somebody to help you. And if you're in a committed relationship, they're here to help you understand what's going on and to help the people that you love who are not. She's here to help you find love that you deserve in what is a very confusing and overwhelming dating scene.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Is that your husband you're describing?

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Well, what I love about this conversation is that it's super easy to blame the app. And I'm not saying dating culture isn't toxic and become even more so and commoditized. But what I do agree with is that you got to take a look at yourself. A hundred percent. And there are ways in which you're being unrealistic. You're filtering out people.

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You're not open and you're also not behaving consistent with what you want off the app. And so I love that you keep coming back to that. I am already learning so much and I'm starting to think about this completely differently. I'm sure you are too as you're listening to all of this advice and her perspective.

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We're gonna hit pause and give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words, but please share this with everyone in your life who needs to hear this, which is basically everybody who's single and who's dating and who's frustrated. And when we return, we're gonna dig right back into the data and the science. So don't you dare go anywhere. I'll be waiting for you after a short break.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting all the research back and data supported advice that we need for ourselves and the people that we love who are single and dating and frustrated. We're changing that with Logan Urie. So Logan, you know, you write about, and I've heard you mention before that this idea that the instant spark is a myth.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Can you explain why our obsession with the instant chemistry and the soulmate might be holding someone back from finding their partner? Yeah, so can I curse? Yes, you can.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And that's why I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Logan Urie to our Boston studio. So let me tell you a little bit about her. Logan Urie is a Harvard-trained behavioral scientist, a dating coach, a researcher on dating and love, and she is the author of the bestselling book, How to Not Die Alone.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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If you're feeling discouraged about dating, you're not alone. Maybe you're tired of putting yourself out there only to get rejected or ignored or ghosted. Maybe you've stopped dating altogether. Well, today, I want to change your entire approach to dating in the modern world using data.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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So fuck the spark and go after the slow burn. The slow burn. So the advice is pay attention to the slow burn.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Well, this gets back to your point that I think we're going to come back to over and over again, which is if it's not working, look in the mirror.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And when you said spark, it also reminded me of research that we wrote about in my book, The Let Them Theory, about how if you are in this pattern where you keep meeting people and it's like, oh, my God, amazing, and it's not working out.

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She has spent the last five years as the director of relationship science at Hinge, studying dating trends and helping people just like you and the people that you love build better relationships and make a fabulous match with somebody who is awesome. And I'm going to say something right up front. This is not an episode that's sponsored by Hinge.

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Based on the research, you're more likely to stay in that same pattern because the spark is coming from a dysfunctional connection between you and the type of person you keep choosing, whether it's the drama or the this or the that or people you're trying to fix or this excitement and spark around chasing people that are not available.

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And so I love that you're reminding us yet again, we are chasing something that Instead of sitting down and figuring out what do we actually want and how can I choose that with my behavior? How can I choose that with my filters? How can I choose that by looking at a slow burn and giving somebody a chance to grow on me?

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And what is the advice to each one of these? So if you are the person that's a romanticizer, unrealistic expectations, you're looking for the instant soulmate love story, and now you're getting discouraged, what's the advice?

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I asked Yuri to be on for a particular reason, because I really love her advice because she brings the data, the science, and the research that you've never heard before. This episode is for everyone in your life who's single or who is struggling in their relationships. It's going to completely change how you look at dating, no matter how old you are.

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And it makes so much sense because if you're looking for a soulmate, it means they're the solution to your problems, right? I love that advice for the maximizer who's trying to take a piece of this person and a piece of that person and build the perfect Frankenstein man or woman partner for themselves. And what is the advice there?

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I think that's a hard thing for a lot of people to give up is this belief that there is someone out there that is solely uniquely meant for you. And here's what I'm going to say about that. I believe that you can make an incredible life and relationship work with thousands and thousands of people.

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I do believe on a deeply spiritual and energetic level that when you believe that, you open yourself up to possibility, which allows you to meet the person that's meant for you.

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So I kind of believe in both, but I don't take the approach in life of, I got to figure out the needle in the haystack and that's how I'm going to find it. I'm like, I'm open to this.

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I love that. Did you hear that, everybody? Great relationships are built. They're not discovered.

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We are going to be taking questions from listeners of all age groups, whether in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. The information is absolutely relevant for anyone of any age, anywhere in the world. Logan is with you and me today to break everything down step by step, because it turns out everything that you're probably doing online, you've gotten wrong.

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I have a feeling there's someone in my life that I think is probably a maximizer. And it's really cute because they are in a relationship and their partner recently said to them, I can learn to cook. You can learn to play this sport. Like, these are skills we can build together. Like, it doesn't mean that, you know, things aren't going to change over time.

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Don't penalize me for the fact that I'm not actually perfect right now. I can grow with you and you can grow with me.

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Meaning, how do you start? What are the top three things to do if you're like, okay, I've done that. I'm on the app. Does it mean you got to reach out? You got to set a date? Is that what that is?

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And then... And is there a reason... And the reason is... that there is an assumption if I can't see your body that you're hiding something?

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She is with you and me today because she's going to be breaking down one by one every single thing that you've gotten wrong about dating in today's world, especially online dating, like how you filter potential partners to the reason why you feel pushed to get back with your ex.

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Well, that's a great success thing for Hinge. It's not. So I love that you're measuring success. Yeah. Not by how many people are getting likes and how many, because part of when you said full body, I immediately went, but what about people's bias? And what about the fact that there are human beings with ridiculous expectations and judgments?

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And also there is this known behavior that people engage in. of crowding towards certain people. I would imagine if some people are like, but I don't want to put my body up. Like you're actually saying that showing your body in a photo is really important. Yeah. I'm just trying to give people the practical tools of what successful daters do differently. Great.

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And this is based on the people that actually meet somebody and then delete the app, which is the goal.

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Oh, I love that. That's really cool. How do you distinguish between what's actually like a real deal breaker for you and just you're a picky person or you have a little pet peeve, like somebody who's a little messy or maybe they like to spend the weekends... fishing and you don't like fishing, or maybe you love to watch soccer and they don't like to watch soccer.

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How do you distinguish for yourself and give yourself a reality check?

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to the mistakes that you make on the first date, to how your profile is absolutely wrong and how you're probably looking for the wrong things and the shocking data about who successfully matches and creates a committed relationship and why they do. And also, we're going to talk about why waiting for the fairy tale is holding you back from what is right in front of you right now.

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Before I ask the next question, I would love for one of our listeners named Molly to ask you a question.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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So for those of you who are not techie like myself, she's basically making a box. Okay. That has four squares in it. So just draw a line up and down and then you can draw a little square around it. You get four cubes. Okay.

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So on the top of this thing, you're going to write, okay, what's the likelihood that you're going to meet someone at an event? Okay. Yeah, so. Like, for example, if I went to the Red Sox, probably not going to meet somebody. Oh, yeah. Because everybody's like super into the game. And unless I'm standing in line for the beer, although I could meet somebody in line.

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I'm so excited about this episode because it is full of tactics and research and things that you can do and you need to hear because too many of you are going through your life or your relationships without the necessary tools to find success. What you will learn today is extraordinarily special and it has the potential to change your life.

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This is so important because I do see a lot of people who complain about the apps and complain about the dating and then don't do anything. Walk around, look at their phone, work from home, don't put themselves out there. And putting yourself out there means saying hello to people. I wanted to go to one other aspect of Molly's question. She's bad at first dates.

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Do you have any advice for somebody who believes they are bad at first dates? Because if you believe you're bad at first dates, you're not going to go on them. And you're also going to continue to be bad on first dates. So what are the big tips on how to be... better on first dates while you're still getting better at first dates. I have a lot of thoughts around this.

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And what's cool about this advice is you're actually in control of this. Logan, I just love how you break this down and I need to hit pause so we can give our sponsors a chance to share a few words. Please share this episode with the people that you love and please don't go anywhere. Logan's only just getting started. I got so many more questions.

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She's got so many more tactics to share and you're going to want to hear them. So stay with us. We'll be right back. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting the data and science supported strategies that you need to be using. And so do the people that you love in the modern dating world.

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So Logan, how do you coach somebody who might be shy or are in press play conversations and they've never thought about it this way?

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So without further ado, please help me welcome Logan Urie to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Yay, I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited to talk to you because there are so many people in my life, so many different ages, different circumstances that are frustrated with dating, with relationships. This is your area of expertise.

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I love that. I think that is a genius, genius tactic. Because you're right, it's not about a power dynamic. You're actually confident enough to say there's this thing going on and then you get to see how this person thinks.

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Well, and here's the other thing, because you were coaching us on asking for advice or coming with a hot take. I would imagine the very first pushback that you get from people that you're working with is, but what if they don't like? And you've got to remember, this isn't about them picking you. This is about you being yourself to see if someone is worth picking for you.

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Like having the courage to just show up as yourself and talk about what's going on and take some of these risks means you know you're worthy enough.

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To find somebody that can step into your life versus sitting there panic stricken about whether or not this person is going to want a second date. If they don't want a second date with you, you don't want them in your life. I want to play another question from Julian who wants to explain his frustrations with the dating apps these days. And I would love for you to hear this. Let's do it.

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And one of the reasons why I'm thrilled that you made the trip all the way across the country to our studios here in Boston is because you can... marry, no pun intended, the data and science from all of the experience that you have working at Hinge for the last five years with all the expertise that you have in coaching people when they're single and dating.

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So we've talked a lot about kind of online dating and the demographic that Hinge really focuses on, 20s, 30s. I would love to age up a little bit. Let's do it. And talk about what you're seeing for people who are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. I remember when my mother-in-law, who's been a widower for a very long time, she actually got on the apps. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

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Her granddaughters helped her build, my daughter helped her build a profile. And I remember her complaining even then, this would have been a decade ago. All the guys my age want somebody two decades younger. You know, they all look terrible and didn't take good care of themselves.

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And I also have a friend in her 50s who's never met anybody and feels very burnt out by the process of dating and dating online in particular. I actually want to play the question that my friend Jodi had for you. Let's do it. So let's hear this clip from my friend Jodi.

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She's amazing. I'm always like, why are you, have you not met somebody?

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Yes. You know what I mean? Like, is it judgy? Because I can think of, honestly... seven people in my life who I think are extraordinary. And then I look around, I'm like, all these other people are paired off. What the hell is going on?

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And I just cannot wait to jump into this. So I want to start here, Logan. Could you just talk directly to the person listening? And tell them exactly what they might experience in their life and what could change if they take to heart absolutely everything that you're about to share with us today and they put it to use.

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What is the hardest thing to hear?

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See, I think that's the thing that is probably present if you've got somebody that is in a situation where they really haven't met somebody, that they are dating people that are not interested in a commitment. They are dating red flags. They are not willing to see those red flags. And maybe it is a pickiness thing, like moving towards somebody that you may be

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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I don't care how old you are, how young you are, if you're in a relationship, a situationship, if you're not even sure what you're doing, everything you're about to learn today will change how you look at dating. You and I are going to sit down with Logan Urie, who is a Harvard-trained behavioral scientist who led teams at Google, who then pivoted to become a researcher on the science of love.

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might be shorter than you or older than you or have like a body shape. And so is that kind of the hard feedback that you find when you've really, you're working with somebody that's been single a long time?

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Wow. How do you handle in a relationship all the baggage that somebody comes with though? Like do you have advice and did it come up in the show of dating somebody and they've got an ex and they have children and there is a lot of demands on their time and there may be a lot of stress when they're dealing with an ex, which is a huge factor when you're dating when you're older.

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What are the top few skills that somebody that's a little bit older needs to learn to be better at dating as you get older?

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It's true. It's absolutely true. What are some of the top skills that you believe people that are dating when they're older need to learn?

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I absolutely love that. One of the things that I've loved about talking to you, Logan, is just... It's achieved this mission that I had of really trying to understand the difference between the app and it facilitating connection. And you were fantastic at giving us very specific things to do in order to widen the aperture.

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And to also separate the app itself from just the toxic behavior of people and the difficulties that have always been in dating around rejection and people not following up and just how hard it can feel to put yourself out there. That's always been a thing. But you've also kind of left us with this message about like there's so much in your control.

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And if you find that you're just blaming the apps and blaming the apps and blaming the apps, you're missing the biggest source of your power, which is what's in your control. And what are your parting words to the person listening?

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And in terms of, I'm thinking about my best friend from childhood, who you're going to hear from in a little bit, who is in her 50s, never married, never found love. Like, we'll get together and we'll down a bottle of wine, and next thing you know, she's crying because this is not how she wanted her life to turn out.

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And what is the very first step based on everything that we've talked about that you want someone listening to do as soon as they're done with this to truly put themselves in the driver's seat about what they want?

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Logan Urie, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. And I also want to thank you for spending time together with us. I know that you're going to be sending this episode and sharing this with all of your single friends and all of the young adults in your life. I'm so excited to hear how you put this to use.

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And if part of that means finding an incredible partnership, I think you just got incredible tactical advice and a whole new perspective and way to look at the apps that will empower you and the people that you love to do that.

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Alrighty, I will be waiting for you in the very next episode. Okay, great. Great. Okay, that works great. This is awesome. Do you need her to say that again? No, I know, but do you think we heard that or no?

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Awesome.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Oh my God, you're a hero. It was a little challenging. I'm glad you also took a nap. Oh yeah. Because that is a...

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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It'll be worth it.

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Yay. Amazing. Oh my God. I'm so excited.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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Okay, great. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher. This bonus segment, All About Friendship, is sponsored by Celebrity Cruises.

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With Celebrity Cruises, check this out, you can sail to almost 300 incredible destinations around the world, explore ancient history in Europe, lose yourself in the wild beauty of Alaska, or sink your toes into the warm pinkish sands of the Caribbean. And along the way, you can relax in elevated rooms, enjoy world-class entertainment, and spoil yourself with amazing food and drinks.

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What do you want someone who is either post-divorce or they have never met the person and they're in their late 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s?

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Doesn't that just sound like the kind of experience you want to share with your friends? Sure does. And isn't it true that good friends, they just make everything so much more fun. But here's the thing, life gets busy. And if you're like me, suddenly you like have this epiphany where you're like, it's been months.

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And sometimes with some of my most favorite people who I'm kind of mad at because they don't live anywhere near me, it's been years, years since I've spent any time with them doing something. Well, here's the truth. You have to make time. Life is too short not to enjoy it with the people who make it worth living.

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And if you really stop and think about some of your best memories with your friends, what were you doing? I bet you were on a road trip or a bachelorette party, or you were camping for the weekend. Why do you remember those things? I'll tell you why, because traveling with your friends is one of the most amazing things that you can do in life.

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It's when you have all those laugh till your stomach hurts conversations. You stay up way too late. You can just let loose and be yourself, which you can't do with your family a lot of the time. And it makes memories that you talk about for years. In fact, you're still talking about the last time you went away with your friends. And this brings me to another piece of research.

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When you invest in your relationships, you're also investing in yourself. So there's this 86-year-long study that was done at Harvard University. And one of the things that this research tells us that is loud and clear is that when it comes to living a deeply meaningful life, It's not money or fame or accomplishments that is going to make your life truly happy and fulfilling.

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The number one thing based on 86 years of research is the quality of your relationships. And every single experience that you have with your friends deepens those friendships. And so that's why it's crucial for you to take what I'm reminding you of seriously. You need to make time for your friends. They deserve it and so do you.

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So today, before you're done listening, make the call, send the text, plan a date a year from now, six months from now, three months from now, whatever. And one other thing, those moments with the people that you love, they're going to give you the fuel that you need to get through everything else on your calendar.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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And I want to give a huge shout out to Celebrity Cruises for reminding you and me of what you know to be true. That time with friends matters. And if you want it, you can be the one to plan it. And if you and your friends are craving a travel experience that's intimate and packed with variety, think of Celebrity Cruises because they can make it happen. And it would be super easy to plan.

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I mean, just imagine you pick your week, you pick the cruise you want to go on, and now you can just picture you and your friends on a ship with a cozy feeling of a boutique hotel and all the features of a grand adventure, beautiful elevated rooms, nonstop entertainment, some of the best food you're ever going to eat. And there's so much to do. Here's the best part.

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The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need

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You don't have to plan what everybody as a group is going to do once you get on the ship because everybody can do whatever they want all day long and you're still together and you get to hang. How cool is that? Learn more at CelebrityCruises.com. Visit Celebrity.com for details, ships registry, Malta, and Ecuador.

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That right there, we are born knowing how to love, but not knowing how to date. So is it safe to assume that if you're divorced or you're in your 50s and you're not having luck, you absolutely are born knowing how to love, but you just don't know how to date?

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Awesome. So for anyone that's listening, that may not be familiar with your work, could you just share with the person that is spending some time with us right now just a little bit about your background both at Hinge and what you do there and how that's informed your work coaching people in their love life and with dating?

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She is here after crunching data for five years as the director of relationship science at one of the largest online dating apps in the world. and she's gonna help you break out of the online dating patterns that just aren't working.

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I was really excited to talk to you because you have a extremely unique blend of skill sets. When you think about being at Google and Airbnb and a psychology degree from Harvard and all of this experience, coaching people both privately in terms of dating and being single and finding the kind of love that they deserve,

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And also for the last five years, being in this unique role at Hinge, where you have access to all the behind the scenes of how people are using the apps, what the trends are. And I just could not wait to dig into this because I have so many people in my life that are really struggling.

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And one of the things that I wanted to ask you is, do you think that dating apps are helping people find love and make connection? Or are they really contributing to a sense of dissatisfaction?

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Clearly, she's also going to teach you very specific changes you need to make to your approach if you're gonna use online dating apps, because you're probably not using them correctly. Logan has the data, the insights, and the experience to back up the very specific fundamental changes you need to make right now, for example, to your online dating profile.

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Yeah. What's interesting to me, because I'm thinking about this as a woman who's 56, I've been married for 28 years, and I often think, thank God I am not single and in my 20s. Thank God Chris is still alive and I'm not post-divorce or post-death and I'm out there alone because I think I would absolutely implode if I were putting myself out there.

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And I'm sure you're going to tell me otherwise, but here's one thing I've noticed. Yeah. I've noticed that, yes, almost most of the people that I know, especially in their 30s, met online. But most of the people that I know, men and women in their 20s, are feeling extremely discouraged about online. I know more women in their 20s in New York who are literally off the apps. They've just had it.

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And so is that just... my group of people or are you seeing that this was a really good thing and now it's become really overwhelming because of the amount of choice and because of the way it may have changed the culture around dating?

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Yeah. It was one of those series that was extraordinarily resonant of women's experiences in New York. And I feel that there is another... very significant thing happening, at least with the women that are in their 20s that I know that live in New York or Chicago or LA. Notice I'm saying big cities.

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She wants you to shift your entire approach to the way you even think about dating and what she's about to share with you will transform the way you think about love, relationships, dating, and most importantly, yourself. So if you've ever felt like you're losing hope or that you're destined to be alone, you are wrong. You're not stuck. You're not too late. You can find the love that you deserve.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. If you've ever regretted the choices that you've made, or you just have this feeling that you're meant for so much more than where you are right now, that there's some greater purpose that's just uniquely meant for you, but you just don't know what it is, well, I have good news.

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It's your community. It's your friends.

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And then you start to tell yourself the story. I got no other options.

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Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Blech!

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Well, I want to highlight something because I believe that the only thing that it takes to turn your life around is the decision that the way you're doing life isn't working anymore. And that's what you just described. And I think so many people... I've come to believe, and I'd be curious to hear what you think about this.

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I've come to believe that the single biggest obstacle that actually stands in people's way. And yes, there are big factors around poverty and money and racism and bias and all this stuff. But the biggest obstacle is actually discouragement and despair. the sense that there's nothing you can do. That's right.

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And I love your story and I love what you stand for because you, time and time and time again, have made a decision. How I'm doing things no longer works for me and I don't give a shit what other people are going to think about it. I'm going to figure this out. And I don't even have to know how I'm going to change my life or what it's going to look like.

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I just know I'm not doing it like this anymore. And so you make the decision, you work a bazillion jobs. How the heck do you get into radio? Because I think the other thing that happens for people, and it's probably, I can feel so many people sending this episode to their adult kids. Listen to this man.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Nothing could be more worthy of your time than listening to this, which is why I am absolutely thrilled that you're here. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am ecstatic that you are here with me right now. You know, it's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together, but today, today you are in for something truly special.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How did you go from no experience, a bazillion odd jobs, having been arrested to actually making a break in radio and in the business?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, you not only got the bug, you dominate on radio. And I want to read to you some of your words from your book, Shook One, which is an incredible book. And there was one passage in particular that I wanted to read to you because we were kind of like talking about this theme of the power of making one decision. Like my life is not working the way that I want it to work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It doesn't feel the way I want it to feel. And you had this second huge epiphany because you had become known as like this shock jock. And you were like saying all kinds of crazy stuff about people. And that was kind of the way that people knew you. And you had this epiphany that this is not who you want to be anymore.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so I want to read to you this from page 245 of your bestselling book, Shook One. For many years, I was edgy and risky with my words on my mic. I pushed the envelope on topics like sex. People would listen to me and say, man, Charlamagne is wild. There's a reason Rolling Stone called me the hip hop Howard Stern. Today, I have a much different mind state.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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While I'm always going to be authentic with my life's experiences, I'm embarrassed by things that I've said in the past. There are moments when I just want it all wiped from the internet. I cringe thinking about my daughter watching some of my old clips, but I can't surrender to those fears. I've come to accept that I can't be a prisoner of my past.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because the truth is, largely with the help of therapy, I've evolved a great deal over the past few years. I'm not the same thoughtless instigator I used to be. I'd love to have you share about the decision to make a huge risk in your career because you gained so much fame and influence by going about things a certain way. And then you made a decision. I don't want to do this anymore.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What happened and how have you changed?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And if you're a new listener, I also just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so thrilled that you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How the hell do you do that? I mean, come on now. You have to. How do you do it? Because every single one of us, the person that is listening right now, can look back at a moment in time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you just cringe. You want to erase that person. We beat ourselves up over it. How the hell did you get to a point where you could love every version of yourself?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I know that you're the type of person who not only values your time, but you also want to use the time that you have in this life to create a life that is driven by purpose.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You do? Like, tell me what's like, how do you do that?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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One of the most beautiful things that you have said so far, and you've said a lot of things that are very beautiful and empowering and important, but I really want to make sure that the person listening takes this and applies it. You literally just said, you've got to give yourself grace. Why on earth would you punish yourself now for things you didn't know back then?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And if you're listening to this conversation today because somebody sent this episode to you, that is so cool because you have people in your life that care about you and they not only care about you, they see a bigger possibility for your life, which is why they recommended that you listen to this episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What a beautiful gift you can give to yourself. And I also love how I'm starting to kind of read between the lines that you're also extending it to other people in your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That we need to be able to extend that grace to people in our lives and stop punishing them now for the things that they didn't know back then. You know, I'm curious, as you sort of like have this like transformation in your mind that is both business, I see that there's a ceiling to this shtick. And also as a person, I just don't want to operate like this anymore.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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When you started to transform yourself on air, did you have any anxiety at all about how the dedicated, huge hip hop audience fan base that you had built would be receiving you?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So thank you for trusting them because it shows that you see bigger possibilities for your life too. And so does the person that you're about to meet, Charlemagne the God. Charlamagne hopped on a plane this morning after co-hosting one of the biggest radio shows on the planet. It's called The Breakfast Club.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, you wrote about that realization in your latest book. And I want to go back, though, to what you said, because you were talking about how it was 2018. People talk openly now about anxiety and depression, and you have done extraordinary work in terms of destigmatizing those topics.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And one of the things that I'm curious about is how the hell did you even know that you were having anxiety or struggling with depression? Because you're right. It was not talked about openly. Like you wouldn't be caught dead walking into a self-help aisle. And most people didn't even understand the signs of anxiety or depression.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So how the hell, like in 2007, 2016, did you realize that this is something you were dealing with?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And just to understand how influential his perspective and his voice is, 4 million people listen every single week to The Breakfast Club. To put this like in a visual sense, 4 million people, that's 50 Super Bowl stadiums where every single seat is full and everyone is tuned in listening every single week. And that's just the people listening to the radio.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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There's another 6 million more people that follow the show on YouTube. And that's not all that Charlemagne does. He's been inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame. He is a three-time New York Times bestselling author, an Emmy award-winning executive producer. He's also the co-founder of the Black Effect Podcast Network, one of the most successful podcast networks in the world.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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where he has produced 47 shows that have won all the biggest awards that are available to shows in podcasting. He's also the founder of a publishing imprint, Black Privilege Publishing, in partnership with Simon & Schuster, which has released 12 books and already released bestsellers, including his latest, Get Honest or Die Lying.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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The Mel Robbins Podcast

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The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He's hosted several award-winning television programs, and he is also the founder of the Mental Wealth Alliance, which focuses on advocating for mental health. And to top it all off, he's also an ambassador for the food bank in New York City. But his life wasn't always this way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I have this thing where I feel like you can stand in this moment and you can look backwards and time travel and go, okay, I may not like what I see. Mm-hmm. I may not have deserved that. It may have been very painful, but I can actually in this moment look backwards and see how everything led me uniquely here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You have press play on the exact conversation you need to hear right now. I just walked out of our studios here in Boston. I am so moved, like moved to the core by what our guest today is about to share with you. I feel so inspired right now, so energized. And by the time you're done listening to this, you will as well. You're about to hear a story of redemption, reinvention, forgiveness.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I think it's an incredible skill and what you're accessing when you are practicing gratitude in the way that you're recommending is you're actually teaching people how to stand in this moment.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And in the gratitude of thank you, even though I don't know where this is leading, you're actually practicing faith because you're saying, I'm grateful because I know it's leading me somewhere that I can't yet see that is meant for me. And I won't get there without this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Meaning what about other people?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you're about to hear the extraordinary story, the twists, the turns, the lessons learned, the regrets, and the mistakes that he's made. And look, you can always learn from your own mistakes. But today, you have the honor of getting to learn from his. So, Charlamagne, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so thrilled that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that is data. about who this person is and where they are. And so I can see that clearly when I say, let them say these things. Let them be ungrateful. Let them be so insecure about their own power and success and capability that they're actually threatened by my generosity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Let them be so concerned about what everybody else thinks of them that they need to distance themselves from me because they are clearly insecure about their own power and skill. And so they're trying to manage what other people think.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah, of course. So when somebody, I used to be this person. Like I used to be a person who believed that there was a limited amount of success to go around. I used to believe that if Charlemagne were just dominating on radio, there was no room for me because you've already done it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so if you would extend a hand, at first I would be grateful because I would feel seen by somebody that I really respect and I would feel supported. But as I start to build something, I would then have to confront The fact that I'm only in a certain place and now I make a mistake.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And instead of seeing you, Charlemagne, as somebody who's leading the way, somebody who is there as inspiration, somebody that provides a formula, somebody that provides celebration and support and cheerleading and advocacy for you. I make a major mistake because I have a very small mind and I think there's only so much to go around.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So now I start to see you, the very person that led the way and that cheered for me and that supported me as a person that I'm now against because I now want what you have. And I don't actually see that the world is abundant when it comes to success and money and friendship and love and all and peace and healing. These things are in limitless supply.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the only person that can take something that's meant for you is you. It's so sad that when people look at the game of life, what happens is everybody is dealt a hand. And some hands suck and some hands are better. That's just how life is. It's not fair. But you don't win the game of cards by staring at the hand that somebody else is holding.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You win the game of cards by staring at your own hand and figuring out how to play them and how to be a better player. And how do you do that in life? You learn from other people.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because you and I, and you and your friends, you're never playing against each other. You're only always playing with them. And if you are dealing with people in your life that reveal to you, after you have supported them, after you have shown up for them, that they are actually just transactional, that's because of their insecurity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I am a huge fan of yours.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That's why. And it hurts because you see the potential in other people. And so you give and give and give because that's one of your core values to be of service. But then when somebody starts to turn against you or all of a sudden is antagonistic toward you, it just feels weird.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I'm basically saying let them be on their own journey. Let them be very scarce in their mindset. Let them not understand the way that the world works. Let them not understand me and let me give this a little space. so that I can give them the grace and dignity of their own experience, but I'm not wasting time and energy managing this person anymore.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Just don't expect them to become a church lady.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yes, they might be. They may.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And here, this is where the power comes. I want to give you this. So the let them theory, the first part is let them, because that's where you actually recognize you can't control what another person is going to do with the support that you give. You cannot control that, right? Your control is never in what other people are doing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And we waste all our time and energy worrying about what people think and say and do and how they act. And we have expectations and we have to learn to just let other adults control. Be who they are and be who they're not. And what these people in your life are showing you is they are not abundant people. They are not secure.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so when you lift somebody up and you've already talked about this, if they have not done the internal work, you can lift them up on the outside, but you're still dragging up the devil inside them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so we tend to attack the very thing that could actually help us. And as you're lifting up somebody to a different level and they have not done the internal work to be at that level, they will literally turn against the person that lifted them up. It's because of insecurity. And so you've got to let them reveal who they are at their core and how they're going to react to your generosity.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Then you go to the let me part. Let me remind myself, I actually always have control because I get to choose how much time and energy I put into this relationship moving forward. And your power is in your values. You give because you're a generous person. You give because you believe in lifting people up. You give because you believe God is in all things and you are grateful for all things.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So that is how you show up. That will never change. But people will reveal that they are not in that same energy space as you. And then that's just data. Let them. So you can better protect your time and energy. But don't stop giving.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Just not to them. Absolutely. Is that helpful?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's all that it is. It's actually, you know how you talk about gratitude. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Thank you for revealing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How you actually feel because now I can protect my time and energy. I am so thrilled that you're here. I know as you're listening to Charlemagne, you're thrilled that he's here too. I want to hit the pause so we can give our sponsors a chance to share a few words. And while you're listening, share this with people that you care about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And don't go anywhere because Charlemagne and I, we're just getting started and we're going to be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are hanging out with Charlemagne the God. We're talking about purpose. We're talking about redemption, reinvention, forgiveness.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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There are so many things that you're here to teach us, Charlemagne, based on the mistakes and the regrets that you've made. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is this. So in your book, Get Honest or Die Lying, you talk about how much you hate small talk. Why do you hate small talk?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Waste of time. Waste of time. You know, you write and get honest or die lying. This is chapter 28, true intentions. One of the best ways to avoid making small talk on any level is to focus on your IG. No, not your Instagram. The IG I'm discussing stands for intention and goals. Can you break that down for me? What is intention and goals?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, we are destined to be together today together. And I'm going to come see you in April on your show. And so this is the beginning of a lot of amazing things that we're going to do. And Here's how I'd like to start.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How on earth do you deal with the criticism that you get on social media?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Could you tell the person who is listening right now that's spending time together with us what they might expect to be different about their life or the life of somebody that they care about based on everything that you're about to share with us today about your life, lessons learned, the incredible things that you sell and you talk about in your bestselling books.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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God, you're a genius.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Talk to me about your morning routine, because you seem to have really locked in the things that you do. in order to keep your mental health and your focus intact, to keep yourself in peace, to keep you connected to God and gratitude. How do you start your day? Will you walk me through it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How has having daughters changed you?

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What could change about their life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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No, what does that mean? Because I used to complain about my kids this way, too. Okay. A parenting expert therapist told me that that actually is a sign.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That they feel safe with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because they've been holding it together at school.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And, you know, I really want to acknowledge you and your wife for something. And like, it's just, I think it's so beautiful. You know, you started by talking about choices and we've talked a lot about the power of a decision, right? And you talked in the very beginning of this about how your dad parented out of fear.

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The choice that you have made to do work on your inner self and to learn how to extend yourself the grace that we all deserve. And to also learn how to show up and do better in that simple story of your daughter reflecting back to you the things that you have shared with us today. Dad, this is your first time doing this too.

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Well, I'm going to tell you something. I am a huge fan of yours. I have devoured your books. I listen to you. Thank you. There is not a doubt in my mind. that by the time our conversation is done and you so generously share mistakes made, lessons learned, the tools that you use in order to transform your mind, to build this extraordinary career, the things that you've learned as a parent,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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She is actually evidence that all of the healing that you have done and all of the work that you and your wife have done have actually broken that pattern of parenting out of fear and have broken the way that trauma gets passed through families. And I just really wanted to acknowledge that because that is incredible.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, it's very clear you and your wife are giving them the tools to actually respond to anything that's happening, which is extraordinary. And I just want to make sure that you can you hear the acknowledgement and the work that you've done and the impact that it's having on the daughters that you're raising.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You know, you talked about this earlier, but I want to read a passage from Get Honest or Die Lying. It turns out that my father had been dealing with severe depression and anxiety most of his life. He was going to therapy several times a week and was on multiple medications. At one point, things had gotten so bad that he had to check himself into a mental health rehab.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He'd even wanted to kill himself, but hadn't because he didn't want to hurt his children. You know, you mentioned how you didn't know any of this growing up. How did learning about those struggles that your father had later in life change how you see your dad?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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about forgiveness, about regret, about peace, you cannot listen to this conversation I'm going to predict and not feel completely transformed. I would not have invited you to be here if I did not think that you were of service to a bigger mission and that Listening to you is one of the most worthy things that somebody could do with their time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How do you think your relationship with your dad, especially before you even knew any of this, played into the experiences of having anxiety or being a people pleaser? Like, how did that impact you?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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How your relationship with your father, particularly before you knew his struggles, played into the anxiety that you felt?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What do you mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I would love to have you speak directly to the person that's with us right now that's listening or watching us. And you've had this breakthrough, so you know it's possible. But if you think back to those moments in your life and you've told us about a bunch of them where you're really struggling,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What would you tell the person that feels like they don't feel worthy, they're struggling, they just, what do you want them to know about the strength within them, about how to think about this moment in their life so that they can get to that point where they feel what you feel?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I mean, what you just said is actually, it's the Holy Grail. It is. Everybody's like, I don't know what my purpose is. You just told us what your purpose is. Your purpose is to serve and to work on yourself, to be a better version of yourself. You actually give guidance on page 36 of Get Honest or Die Lying. I absolutely love this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Human beings that might have started out in one place, but have the potential to go somewhere else. I'd encourage you to look for that same potential in the people you meet and more importantly, in yourself. We are all works in progress.

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The more we can embrace that process and let go of the unnecessary judgment and the holier-than-thou attitudes, the quicker you'll be able to evolve into the best version of yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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What are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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it is just radiating off you. Like you can feel, like you were talking about laying on the ground and feeling the energy. You can feel the authenticity. of that energetic alignment in your soul when you say those words.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Well, now it feels like we're in church, Charlemagne, and I could not be more thrilled to be here with you. But all of this wisdom that you're about to pour into us, it actually didn't come from all the success. It came from all the struggle. And even though you are one of the most influential voices in the world today, the person who's listening may be meeting you for the first time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Wow. We went to church today with Charlemagne. I'll tell you. That's it. Well, I hope you keep working because we're all benefiting from it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Oh, yeah. Well, thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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I can receive that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Let them. Oh, shit.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Yeah. Well, because then you're going down with them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah, you know, I had a really interesting conversation with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. 's son, Martin, and his wife, Andrea, on their podcast, My Legacy. And as we were talking about it, he said, you know, Mel, this is my dad's teaching. Because choosing peace does not mean surrender. It's actually a sign of strength. That's right. And managing your response is power.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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And when you surrender your peace and your love to hatred, then you actually lose your power. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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So what would you like them to know about you?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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You're going to learn how to find your purpose and how to change the very essence of who you are. So if you feel weighed down by the mistakes you've made in the past, this conversation could set you free. Because one of the most potent, influential, and authoritative voices in the world today is here to help you change your life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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What does that mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Well played. That's right. Well played. Talk to me about the name Charlemagne the God.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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So how old are we talking?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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You're a good marketer.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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But it also means, I've read in your work, that God is within you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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And talk to me more about that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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He's a Radio Hall of Famer, co-host of The Breakfast Club, which is one of the most popular radio shows in the world, a three-time New York Times bestselling author, and an Emmy Award-winning executive producer. His name? Charlemagne, the God. Charlemagne is here to share things that he's never talked about before about the mistakes he's made and the lessons he's learned.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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So I want you to talk to the person and speak to that, like, moment in your life where you are dealing drugs, you are using an alias because you don't want your parents to find out, which is, you know, smart thinking, you know, and believe as a spiritual person that God is always watching. And so you have the sense because you've already talked about choice.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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There must be this tension of you feeling like this isn't what I'm meant to do, but I'm making a choice to do this. Like, what do you want to say to the person? Because I think that's a very relatable thing in life where you have this sense of a greater purpose. but you are trapped where you are now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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And you even see yourself, I think about moments in my life, whether it was drinking too much or drugs, or it was cheating on people that I was with or stealing or whatever the hell it may have been. Things that I knew in the moment were choices that I was making. And I felt like I had no other choice, but I still, do you know what I mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But I still felt like there was something better for me, but I didn't know how to bridge it. Like, what would you say to the person that's listening that actually feels that right now in their life?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Positive energy activates constant elevation. And that's peace. Oh, it is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Was there a moment, though, because, you know, I used to I was a public defender for legal aid and in New York City. And I do feel like when you are in that loop of making really bad choices and you feel like you have no options, you're also surrounded by people that are doing the same thing. It takes a level of courage to wake up and go, I'm not doing this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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Do you remember, like, was there a moment?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

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So what was the moment where you're like, I'm not going down like this?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And what you're about to hear, it is going to shake you to the core because Charlemagne delivers so much insight, so much wisdom with a level of conviction and passion. It is going to move you. He's going to tell you that you are so much bigger than the mistakes that you've made or the life that you're living right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You know, this time of year, I get a ton of questions about goal setting and goal achievement. And so today I have decided to teach you how to achieve any goal that you have in six simple steps. Now, these are the six simple steps that I follow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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And that's gonna make it a little easier, which we're gonna get to in some of the later steps. And the third reason why is because it will help you tremendously when it comes to you pushing yourself on the days that you don't feel like doing it.

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And so we're going to come back to step two and writing it down because I'm going to help you find motivation by writing something down a little bit later. So I promise you, we're going to come back to it. Step number three is find the formula. Find the formula. You've decided what you want. You've made it very specific so you know what it's going to take.

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You have answered the question, how am I going to know I've achieved it? So you've got this level of specificity. You've written it down. And now here's your assignment. Go find the formula. For whatever it is that you've written down, the goal that you want to achieve could be getting into a loving relationship after heartbreak or divorce or losing someone you love.

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It might be creating a new chapter of your life. It could be writing a book. It could be starting a business. It could be getting in shape. It might be learning a new language in five weeks flat. It could be mastering giving a toast at somebody's wedding. Any kind of goal that you can state and write down for yourself, there is somebody who's already done it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And for everything that somebody's already done, there is a formula. For example, there is a formula for how you build a successful real estate business. There just is. There is a formula for how you become a motivational speaker. There's a formula for how you write and publish a book, whether you do it with a publisher or you self-publish or you use hybrid publishing. There's a formula.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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There's a formula for how to launch a podcast. In fact, before I started the Mel Robbins podcast, you know what I was doing for the two years before I started this podcast? I was researching the podcast industry and I was looking for the formulas. Do people publish episodes once a week or twice a week or three times a week or five times a week or once a month? And what's the difference?

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What are people saying about the equipment? What do people say about how long the episode should be? What do people say about advertisers? There's a formula. And one of the things that I've noticed over the years is that most people screw this up. Because you want to do it your way. You think you're copying.

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And I know that this is going to be an episode that so many of you share with the people in your life that you deeply care about. You share with your colleagues at work. You share with your adult kids. You share with your... siblings, everybody, everybody needs to know these six simple steps. So I also want to take a minute before we jump in and I unpack each one of these six steps to welcome you.

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How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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You think that if you do it the same way everybody else did it, then somehow you're stealing somebody else's idea. Do you want to know something? The reason why there are formulas is because they work. And the six steps that I'm teaching you today to achieve your goals, it's a formula for achieving your goals. And I want you to steal it because formulas work.

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And I have seen too many people waste years of their lives saying, I'm not going to try keto because my sister-in-law is doing it and I don't want her to think that I'm copying her and I need to do it my way. Screw that. Are you kidding me? If you know what you want and you know what it's going to look like if you've achieved it and you have the... bravery and the clarity to write it down.

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I want you to find every formula you can, and then I want you to use it. And I say this because I screwed myself over. I robbed myself of the opportunity to achieve a goal at a time when I desperately needed to achieve a goal.

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How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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And so I want you to go out and find the formula for whatever it is, whether it's weight loss or putting yourself out there or gaining confidence or making a million dollars or learning how to be an affiliate marketer online or learning how people are making so much money as influencers. There's a formula.

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How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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Find it and follow it because every day that you don't, you're wasting time, you're wasting energy, and you're the one that's standing in the way of you achieving your goals because the formula is how you do it. And here's the other thing I'm going to say about it. You're a unique human being.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So even if you do exactly what everybody else does and you follow the formula and you follow the formula for getting into the real estate business or launching that skincare company, you're still going to do it your own way because you're your own person.

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You still have to prep the meals even though you're gonna follow the recipes that somebody else is telling you worked for them to balance their hormones. You're still gonna put your own spin on it because you can't do anything in life without making it your own because you're gonna put your own personal touch on it. And I feel so passionate about this because I see too many of you

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wasting years of your lives sitting around knowing exactly what you need to be doing or knowing what other people did and telling yourself you can't. Let them think you copied them because you did. Let them think you followed the formula because you did. Let them say you're not that original. So what? You got the goal achieved. Who cares? Let them say, oh, well, she just did it. Great.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yes, I did. Let them say whatever the heck they want because you have big, amazing, awesome goals that you're trying to achieve here. So find the formula. I just love this topic. And you know what else I'm going to love? I would love for you to share this with people that you care about because these six steps are the steps everyone needs.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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If you're brand new, if this is the first episode you've ever listened to on the Mel Robbins podcast, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. This is a winner of an episode because I'm taking a decade of life and business experience and I'm jamming it into this conversation so that you don't have to learn this stuff the hard way. You can go straight to the front of the line.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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All right, so I'm sharing my formula for how you can achieve absolutely any goal using six simple steps. You know, I've got a question here from Elise who says, Mel, I'm so excited to start my new business and the business is giving singing lessons to teenage kids who want to be on Broadway.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now, let me ask you a question because you probably don't have a goal like Elise does of launching a business to give singing lessons to teenage kids who want to be on Broadway. But between you and me, Do you think there's somebody on the planet who has launched a business teaching kids how to break into Broadway? I'd venture to guess that there's a bunch of them.

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And I'd also venture to guess that these businesses also have Instagram channels and they've done podcast episodes where they've talked about their business or somebody's written a blog article about it. There might even be a book about this, like how to break into Broadway, right? So even though you and I don't want to do this business, can you see that if we had to, if our life depended upon it,

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We could find the formula that other people followed. We could see what we needed to be doing on Instagram and social media. We could see like how you market this kind of business and what kind of services you need to offer because you can just look at everybody else's website. That's what I'm talking about when I say a formula. And that's why there's nothing stopping you.

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In fact, the roadmap is right there. And so Elise continues to write, but as soon as I think about, think about my big, amazing goal, I get paralyzed. I have no idea where to start and I've been stalled for years. So she's making a couple mistakes that all get solved by steps one, two, and three. So she has decided what she wants.

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She wants to start a business that helps kids break into Broadway, okay? Clear. How will you know that you've achieved that goal?

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Well, Elise is going to have to answer and you're going to have to answer for yourself, but I would say that I have achieved that goal if I have five paying clients and I have gotten at least one of my clients an audition for an actual show that is on Broadway or off Broadway. I would count that. That's how I would know I am officially in the business of doing this and I have achieved my goal.

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Now, why would I define it that way? Well, because then I know I've done it. I've got paying clients. So if money's coming in, sounds like I'm running a business. And if I'm getting my clients to be able to have an audition, sounds like I'm pretty good at my job. Great. Then I've achieved it. Now I'm going to write it down and I'm going to write that down. And this is what a lease needs to do.

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It's five clients. One person has an audition. This is what the business is. Great. So now she's got it in front of her, right? Because one of the reasons why you get paralyzed is if it's a dream, it stays in your head. If it's a goal, it goes down on paper. If it's a dream, it stays locked in your soul as a wish. If it is a goal, it is on paper in front of your face as something to do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now we know step three, which is find the formula. Elise is paralyzed because A, it's not on paper and B, she's looking at everybody else around her as people that have already done it. She's too late. I don't know what to do. No, no. Other people do not block your way. They lead the way. Find the formula. I feel so adamant about this because I didn't follow this advice.

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How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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You are going to have the cheat code and the proven shortcut to achieving your goals in six simple steps. So I wanna thank you for pressing play on an episode and taking the time to listen to something that will truly help you change your life. And this is one of those episodes you wanna bookmark because you're gonna wanna come back to this over and over and over again.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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This is how I figured out that find the formula is step three in achieving any goal because I didn't do this for a long time. And I literally screwed myself over. What was my goal at the time? Well, 10 years ago, I was miserably in debt. I desperately needed to pay bills. I needed to put groceries on the table. I needed to fill up my gas tank with gas.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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I needed to pay for the town soccer fee so my kids could play town soccer. Like I was very motivated. And my goal was to figure out how I could become a person that was paid to give motivational speeches. And I had started giving speeches. It all kind of just happened organically. I'll tell you that story at a different time.

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But as people started to ask me more and more to come to small events or speak in church basements or go to companies and talk at brown bag lunches, I started to think, how can I make money doing this? I didn't know anybody who made money doing this. And this was 10 years ago. And so I didn't know who to ask.

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But one day I went to an event and there were some other speakers there that looked way more professional than me. Like they had really fancy PowerPoint presentations and they were on the big stages. I was just in like the back rooms on the panels. And so I went up to one of them and I asked for advice. And this is something you can do because this is how you find a formula.

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You can either research and stalk people legally online and figure it out for yourself and listen to podcast episodes and do your research or heck, put it into AI and ask them, what are the 10 steps to doing this goal that I have? And you'll be shocked because you'll get the formula. So I go up to somebody and I write about this in my new book, The Let Them Theory.

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In fact, I write about it on page 82, and I want to read to you about this, okay? So I asked these experienced speakers at this event, what do I do? And they told me there are three things to do, and it's the same three things everybody does. Okay. Everybody who launches a real estate business, same three things. Everybody that tries to get into nursing school, same three things.

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Everybody that launches a YouTube channel, same three things. Everybody that becomes an influencer or loses weight, same things, everyone. There's no mystery here. There's just a formula. So here's what they told me to do. They said, Mel, build a simple website with photos of you on a stage, plus a description of your keynote and the main takeaways.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Second, they said, Mel, get testimonials from a few event planners at past events that you've spoken at, put them on the website. Easy. And then they said the third and most important part of the formula. If you want to be paid to give a speech mail, you better start posting about speaking online. You have to turn your social media into your marketing.

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Post photos from events, post content related to your speech, post photos with the event planners that hire you. Social media is how people find you. Social media demonstrates that you're a player in this industry and social media is what will lead people to that one page website where you have testimonials from event planners so they can book you. That's the formula.

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Follow it and you'll start getting paid as a motivational speaker. So armed with that advice, this was 10 years ago, I knew exactly what I needed to do. Plus, the stakes were really high. I needed the money to get my family out of debt. So I was very clear about what I needed to do. Now, here's what's interesting about goals. I knew what I wanted. I was highly motivated.

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And as I unpack each one of these six simple steps to achieving your goals, you're gonna realize, oh, yeah, this is how you achieve anything. This makes so much sense. Thanks, Mel. You're welcome. All right, let's jump into it. So the first step to achieving any goal is gonna sound super obvious, but what I find is that everybody skips the thing that's obvious.

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And I even knew what I needed to do. I had the formula. Did I follow the formula? Not really. And if you're honest with yourself, I bet you're kind of where I am right there. You kind of know what you need to do to lose the weight or to put yourself out there or to convert the bedroom that's been empty for a number of years into an office or a craft studio. You know, you're just not doing it.

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I hear you. We're going to get to those other three steps in a minute. Yes, I created a website. Yes, I asked for testimonials and I put them on the website. But did I post on social media? Nope. You're sitting there going guilty, Mel. I really want to market my business, but I just don't do it online. I really want to make money. but I'm not taking that course that teaches me how.

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See, at the time, my social media was personal. It was filled with photos of my kids, pictures from family trips and selfies with friends. All of my followers were my friends, my former classmates and family members. I'd never posted anything about my desire to become a motivational speaker or the fact that I'd been doing speeches for free for over a year.

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How to Achieve Any Goal You Have in 6 Simple Steps

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And if you've ever wanted to use social media to launch a business or promote some new aspect of your life or share your art, You know what I'm talking about. You know how hard it is to look at that account that only has photos of your personal life and then make a decision that you're going to turn this into a marketing channel. Now I'm reading on page 83 of the Let Them Theory book right now.

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It took me two years to start posting about my business on social media. Why? Because I was afraid of what people would think. And if you're sitting there going, who are you afraid of, Mel? Simple. I was afraid of my friends.

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I was worried that if I stopped posting photos of my kids and pictures from barbecues and get togethers with extended family, and I started posting photos of me speaking at conferences, that people would judge me. Who does she think she is? I mean, who the heck is hiring her to speak? What does she possibly have to say? I mean, do you know what a train wreck her life is?

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Do you know that her husband's restaurants are closed? What a phony. Now, look, I tried to post, but I would thumb through my photos from the event and select one or two. And then what would happen? The fear would kick in. And as I would draft the caption, I'd start to feel worried about people's opinions. And I'd start to talk to myself. Do you ever do this as you're about to post something?

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Does this sound too arrogant? How's this photo? Is this caption professional enough? If I post this, are people going to unfollow me? Are my friends going to think I'm fooling myself? Should I just start a separate account from scratch? I mean, I went around and around and around and around. I had the formula. I would then convince myself, oh, it's not worth it to post. And you wanna know why?

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Because I had burned through so much energy trying to craft the perfect, most compelling, marketable image and caption, something that would promote me, but it would also ensure that nobody would have a negative thought or unfollow me or think that I'm being too self-centered, that I was literally exhausting myself.

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And if you have a goal of actually trying to lose weight, you probably do this before you go to the gym and then you have no motivation to go to the gym. If your goal is to get out of debt,

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I bet you work yourself up as you look at the pile of bills and you think about the budget you need to create and you get so worked up in your mind with all of the stress and drama that, oh, I'll just do it tomorrow. You have the formula. You're not following it. I literally created hundreds of draft posts and they just sat there in my drafts for two years.

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And you know what would happen when I did get the jolt of confidence to post? Oh my gosh, I would put it up and then I'd be like, and then I would check it obsessively. And if in five minutes it didn't have enough hearts or enough comments, or, you know, I felt like, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, I would just delete it.

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and you don't realize how important it is. And I brought so many notes. If you can see me on YouTube, you see that I have all of these highlighted pages. You're gonna hear me rustling pages as you're listening. And that's because I brought a lot of research and I have questions from your fellow listeners around the world related to some of these steps.

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And I really want you to embrace this because if you know the formula that you could be following, you're the one holding yourself back, just like I did. This stupid fear kept me from marketing my business. And this is something I wanted to make my full-time career.

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I was giving other people's opinions more weight and importance than my own ability to get out of debt, to achieve a goal, to get ahead in my life. I mean, talk about giving your power away. And when I look back at myself now, And I think, my God, I knew exactly what I wanted. I knew how I would measure it because I felt that I would achieve that goal if I received a single paycheck.

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One paycheck means I'm getting paid to give a speech and now I'm legit. I had the formula. I stopped myself from following it. And you will never achieve your goals if you only get to step three, ever. What is it that you want? Because there is no doubt in my mind, you follow these six steps, you will achieve it. May not happen this year, but you will achieve it if you follow these six steps.

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Whether your goal is to launch a successful business or sell your art or publish your music or go on tour or have your videos get a million views or just post a photo of yourself in a bathing suit. Because it means you accept yourself as you are. If you're censoring yourself in any way, it's because you're afraid of other people's opinions. Me too. I mean, that's why we do it.

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And that's why the tool for following the formula is my let them theory. You have to say, let them. Let them think, say, and feel however they're going to feel. Because my life is my responsibility. And I got to focus on what I can control. And I got to say the second part of the let them theory, which is let me. Let me do the things that I need to do to achieve that goal.

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Let me put myself out there. Let me act in a way that makes me feel proud of myself. Because when you start to feel proud of yourself, you're not going to care what anybody thinks because you know the facts. You know the truth. You know who you are. And you know, most advice on this topic, I'm just going to come right out and say it. It sucks. It sucks.

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Because most people are going to tell you, just stop caring about what other people think. But nobody tells you how. I'm telling you how. I'm telling you, give people the freedom to think whatever they want. Let them. Let them judge. Let them have negative thoughts. Let them unfollow you. Let them do and feel and think whatever they want to do because you have goals.

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And if you want to achieve your goals, you have to let other people have their opinions about it because you got to take your time and energy back and stop managing that and worrying about it and holding yourself back because you need that time and energy to do step four. Isn't this so awesome to have these six simple steps? Of course it is. And you know what else would be even more amazing?

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Share this with somebody because everybody in your life has goals and we all get stuck in one of these steps. And when you see them and understand them, you're suddenly free and empowered to achieve your goals, no matter what they are. I just love this topic because I love achieving cool things. And I love actually surprising myself that I can push through obstacles.

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But the first step, you have to decide what you want. I'll say that again. You have to take the time and decide what you want. And most people don't take the time to even do that, to define the goal and to determine whether or not the thing that you want even is a goal. And that brings me to one of the first nuances of step one, decide what you want.

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I can achieve things that I see other people doing. And that's why I'm so excited that you're taking the time to listen to this and that you're also being generous and sharing this with people that you care about. So let's move on to step four, because step four is the really irritating, boring, and unglamorous part of achieving your goals. And I call it doing the reps.

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It took me a long time to figure out this formula. And I want you to feel my conviction about it. And I've tried to make it as simple and as unboring as possible. But step four is super boring. There is absolutely nothing glamorous about achieving your goals. Nothing. Nothing. And the faster you get that into your brain, the more successful you're going to be at achieving your goals. Full stop.

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So what is doing the reps? So this comes from my buddy, bestselling author, Jeff Walker. Look him up. Fantastic guy. Phenomenal business coach. And Jeff said in a meeting that I was in once, he said, you know, I've been asked over the years, what is the secret to success? And he said, it's doing the reps. And the reps are the boring, tedious, annoying actions that you take every day.

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Just like going to the gym. You want a bigger bicep? You got to do the reps. Is doing reps fun? Nope. Is walking into the gym with your headphones on and picking up a 45 pound weight? That's not what I pick up. I pick out like the three to five to eight pounder, depending upon the exercise. But is that like exciting? No, it's tedious. And that's how you achieve a goal. There are no big leaps.

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They're small gains. That's it. And I'm going to come back to this over and over and over again. And I'm going to keep saying the reps are boring because I want you to expect it to be boring. And what separates people who achieve their goals from people who do not is simple. People who achieve their goals understand the power of showing up every day and just doing the boring, tedious stuff.

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That's where greatness is made. It's in the things that aren't fun. It's in the stuff that nobody wants to do. Because let's face it, if it were easy and fun and thrilling to get yourself out of financial debt, everybody would do it. Everybody would have a million dollars in the bank. If it were easy and fun and thrilling to have six pack abs, everybody would have them.

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And I follow these for tiny goals, whether it's I just want to drink more water, that's a goal of mine, or they're massively ambitious goals, like the goal that I had when I launched the Mel Robbins podcast of being one of the top podcasts in the world, which thanks to your support, we now are.

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No, like that's the thing most people don't talk about. Goals are boring. Goals are tedious. Goals are like super annoying. You know how awful it is to write a book? Like truly awful. Like you literally have to sit your butt in a chair and And especially on the days where you got nothing to say and you feel stupid and you think your book idea is dumb, you got to sit there and write.

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Does that sound fun to you? No, that's why most of us don't do it. You know how hard it is to lose a hundred pounds or to lower your cholesterol? Like that's no joke. That is a very important goal. Like you being healthy and vibrant and having a long and amazing life and your health is a huge part of that. That is a enormously worthy and important goal.

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But step four, don't you dare like gaslight yourself into thinking it's going to be fun. There is nothing easy or exciting about achieving a goal. It's a giant pain in the ass, honestly. And that's why I'm saying step four is the reps. It is you showing up on the days that you don't feel like it. And I wanna come back to step two. Remember where I said, write it down?

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Because I'm gonna give you a couple small things that are gonna help you show up and do the tedious thing that you need to do. so you can achieve your goal. And the first thing is, you can use this written exercise that's been researched a lot. Researchers call this an implementation intention, okay? Very fancy term, implementation intention. It's just a simple sentence that you can write down.

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And you're ready? It literally is a formula and you can put it right underneath the goal that you've written down. Here's what I want. Here's how I know I will have achieved it. And now you're going to write down this statement of intention. I will, and then insert whatever the rep is. I will exercise at, and then you do the time and then you do the place. That's it.

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You got to understand the difference between a dream and a goal. critical distinction. So a dream is something that if you close your eyes and you imagine this dream of yours, right? And let's just take something that is on a lot of people's bucket lists.

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And for me writing the book, I will write for 30 minutes at 9 a.m. in my office. I will do a Pilates mat class at 7 a.m. in my bedroom. I will drink a mason jar of water at 6 a.m. standing in front of the coffee maker. So writing down this statement, I will do the rep at a certain time in a certain place. God, it sounds so dreadful, doesn't it? No wonder you and I have not achieved our goals.

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We've been thinking it was supposed to be fun and sexy. We went out and bought all the new sneakers and kind of got all excited about this thing and got a new planner and bought the books. Wait, we have to write a boring sentence about our intention? Mel, I have to make a plan for my reps? Well, you might want to because research shows that when you actually make a plan, 91% of people do the plan.

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I'm gonna say that again. I'm gonna get my research out so I get this right, because this is no joke. They did this study with people that wanted to exercise as a goal, okay? So you've written down, you know what you want, you've written it down, and they've asked people, group one had to track if they exercised. So that group is just tracking exercise in their brain.

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The second group read a little motivational thing about why exercising matters, like it's important for your body, so now you know why. And now you're going to track whether or not you do it. The third group had to write down a plan, meaning I will exercise at 10 o'clock in the morning in my neighborhood by walking around the block.

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91% of the people that wrote down the plan, I will do the rep at a certain time and a certain place, did it. That's double the amount of people that completed the goal than the people who just thought about it or knew why they should do it. So writing down a plan matters because it helps you do the rep. Because I am going to tell you right now, you're not going to want to.

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You're not going to want to exercise. You're not going to want to drink your water. You're not going to want to have the mocktail instead of the alcohol. You're not going to want to make a budget. You're not going to want to clean out your closet. You're not going to want to eat the kale instead of the macaroni and cheese. I don't either. I don't either.

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You're not going to want to spend time filming videos of yourself and seeing yourself on camera, and then you're not going to want to post it online. That's coming. That's step four. And we got to see what you're made of. Are you willing to do the boring, tedious stuff? See, I don't think there's anything special about people that achieve the things that you want.

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They're just willing to do what you won't do. They get up on the days they don't feel like it and they literally go do the thing no matter what they feel like. And so first things first, write down the plan. I'm going to do the rep at a certain time and in a certain place and stick it in front of your face. because based on the research, it's going to make you more likely to do it.

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that you dream of being an author, you dream of publishing a book, you dream of writing a book, whether it's a memoir or a cookbook of your family's recipes or the next fantasy trilogy novel, that deep in your heart, you have this dream that you have written a book, you're a published author, And let me talk about what it feels like to dream, right?

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Second thing that you can do, use my five-second rule. In those moments where you don't feel like doing it, so the motivation's not there, of course it's not there. Why? Reps are boring. Tedious, dumb. We hate them. You're not going to see progress right away, which means you're going to hate it even more. Why am I even doing this stupid exercise stuff?

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I don't, I'm still in the same pants for crying out loud. I still can't do a pull-up. I'm working on trying to do a pull-up. You know what stage I'm in? For two weeks, I've been working on hanging, hanging. I can't even like pop my shoulders a quarter inch. Like I'm working on hanging. This is awful. But this brings me to the five second rule. Five, four, three, two, one, count backwards, move.

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It's a little brain hack tested by research and proven to work for millions of people around the world that will help you push through that feeling of not doing it. And I'm going to give you one more. This comes from Dr. K, who is a fantastic psychiatrist that has appeared on this podcast a number of times. I'll link to his episode so you can listen to him explain this.

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But the basic neuroscience around motivation is we are hardwired to move away from things that feel painful. which is a problem when it comes to step four for achieving your goals because doing the reps every day is very painful. It's tedious, it's boring, it's annoying. You're not gonna see results. It's gonna feel pointless. That doesn't feel like fun.

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So when you're presented with two options, should I sit on the couch and shove these chips in my mouth or should I drag myself out the door and go for a run? You're naturally hardwired to resist the thing that feels hard, which means what? You're gonna resist the reps. This is why you don't do the formula. Do you see how all this is building, right? This is where so many of you get stuck.

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It's where I got stuck. I know what I want. I know why I want it. I know how to measure if I'm doing it. I even know the formula, but I'm not doing it. Well, let's break that. And here's Dr. K's research.

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When it's time to do that boring thing that you don't want to do because it's 10 o'clock in the morning and now you're sitting in your kitchen and you said that you were going to pay your bills at this time, you're just going to say, this is going to sound so dumb, but it works. I know I don't want to do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

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I know it's going to be hard to go hang from the pull-up bar, Mel, for 60 seconds, but you're going to go do it anyway. And when you acknowledge that you don't want to do it and you acknowledge that it's going to suck and you acknowledge that it's going to be hard, something interesting happens. Your resistance to it lowers.

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See, your brain wiring is trying to move you away from the thing that's hard And that's why you're losing the battle of willpower. You don't need willpower. You can use these little hacks. Five, four, three, two, one, go. You can also say, I know it's going to be difficult. I've expected this. The fact that it's tedious and boring and annoying means it's working and I'm going to go do it.

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And then you're going to see the resistance disappears. That's step number four. Do the reps. over and over and over and over again. That's the game. You want to achieve goals? Do the reps. All those people you admire that have what you want, you know what they're doing? They're doing the reps.

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And if you've ever looked at somebody who becomes an overnight sensation, I want you to look at their actual story because they were doing the reps in the dark for a decade while nobody was paying attention. It's all those mornings where you get up and you don't feel like it that help you achieve your goals. That's how you do it. There is no other way.

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If you close your eyes and you imagine the dream of being a published author, of a dream of writing a book, you can feel it, can't you? You can also imagine it. And if I were to walk you through an exercise where I guide you through your senses and I say, okay, your dream has come true. You've written the book. You're a published author. You've sold the movie rights. I mean, how amazing.

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And so if you can't get past step four, you might as well cross that goal off your list because this is how it's done. And there is no shortcut here, period. No shortcut at all. You do not get to pass any of these steps. And that brings me to step number five. And this is an important one because I know I'm like, only because I want you to achieve your goals.

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I don't want to just fluff you up and send you out there and then set you up to fail. I want you to understand that you're in for it and you're capable of doing this. And maybe nobody's told you that. that you can do this, but you gotta accept this is gonna suck for a while. And I'm willing to do the things that are difficult because I really want my life to be easy and amazing in the long run.

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And that's what happens. Do the hard things now, things are easier later. When you constantly opt for what's easy now, your life gets harder and harder and harder. So that brings me to step number five, and I love this. So once you start doing the reps and you're like, all right, this is going to blow, but I'm going to do it anyway.

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This is tedious and I'm not seeing results and I'm still hanging here and I can't even do the shoulder crunch. God forbid a pull-up doesn't even seem like it's ever going to be in my future, but I'm just going to keep doing the reps. How can you make it fun and easy? That's step number five.

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Step number five is once you are starting to just show up and you keep showing up and you keep taking the walk or you keep drinking your water or you keep sitting down and writing, even though what you're writing is just complete garbage that you wouldn't even, you don't even want to read it. That's how bad it is.

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So this is where you take a step back and you ask yourself, well, how could this be easier and more fun? Because I've accepted the reality and the truth that it's gonna be kind of tedious and boring for a long time. And I'm not gonna see results for a long time. And I just gotta keep my head down and I gotta keep focusing on the reps.

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And even on the days where I don't do it, I gotta get back to the reps the next day, which is why I love this tip from my buddy, Jeff Walker. I say, just do the reps all the time. My team will tell you that, my kids will tell you that. I know, mom, got to do the reps.

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We even have in our family group chat, occasionally one of the kids will say something like, yep, just putting in the reps today on something that they're working on, which is code for doing the hard work. And it's kind of cool. But at some point, and I'd say about a week into consistently doing this, now you get to step above this and say, how can I make this fun and easy?

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And there's three different categories that I want you to think about. Number one is... I love visual reminders. So how can you take any of the decision-making or any of the effort out by having visual reminders? So for example, I love setting alarms in my phone that go off and say, reminder, you gotta go for your walk in 10 minutes.

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We're having a Post-it note where I work that reminds me of the thing that I said that I was going to do because now I don't have to remember it. Here's another way that I do this. I lay out my exercise clothes first thing in the morning. Why?

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Well, because when I step into my closet, they're laying there like a giant middle finger telling me that it's time to get dressed and go to the gym, which I don't wanna do. I don't have to think about it. I don't have to wrestle with a decision. I don't have to overcome my feelings in the closet. I've made it easier because it's right there.

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Here's another way I've made exercise easier for me because it's a goal of mine to move my body every day. And this is going to sound like the dumbest thing, but I'm telling you, this has changed my life. I figure out the exercise workouts I'm going to watch because I like to have an exercise class on Sunday nights. So I know what I'm going to watch on Monday.

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I know what class I'm going to take on Tuesday. I know what class I'm going to take on Wednesday. Because have you ever gone to the gym and you're like, what am I supposed to do here? I guess I'll just walk on the treadmill for a little bit. Maybe I'll do the arm thing. Maybe I'll... I was going to do the leg rotation, but there's some guys talking over there by the quad machine.

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So I guess I'll just go get a latte. Like that's kind of how it used to work for me. And so I've made it fun and easy by... planning ahead and removing decisions. Here's another way that I make things fun and easy. Instead of having to remember to drink water, I fill up the water the night before and it's sitting in front of the coffee maker so that when I roll out of bed in the morning,

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If I were to walk through your day, what are the sounds that you hear? What does your life look like? You can imagine it in your mind. And that's the key difference between a dream and a goal. See, a dream is something you can imagine. A goal is something you achieve. Big difference. Because one is in the thinking, that's the dreaming and the feeling. A goal is in the doing.

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I army crawled to the coffee maker. And if this Mason jar were not sitting in front of the coffee maker, I would start making coffee. But because the Mason jar is out there, I've made it easy to do the thing. What are some other ways you can make it fun? You can make playlists. You can get somebody to do it with you. You can join an online community. You can take a class.

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Like there are so many ways. And this is a fun way for you to go, okay, how can I set myself up for success to make this easier? And one of the things that I love about a particular habit researcher, I'm sure you know him. His name is James Clear. He wrote Atomic Habits. It's the book that synthesizes everybody's research on habits.

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And one of the things that I love about his philosophy is that you will rise or fall to the level of your systems. And if you're having trouble staying with the reps, you either have an issue where you don't realize it's boring and hard and tedious and you're not going to see results and that's the game.

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And so you can resolve it by saying, this is gonna be hard, five, four, three, two, one, I'm doing it anyway. The fact that it's hard means it's working, I'm going. And the second though thing that you can do, and this comes from James Clear, is how can I set up my environment or what systems can I create to make this something that's easier or more obvious to do.

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And so again, I've covered a bunch. You can put up visual reminders. You can plan the night before so things are laid out. If you want to write, have your notebook there or your laptop right by where the coffee maker is and plan to write first thing in the morning. You can ask a friend to do it with you. You can sign up for a class or an online community that helps you stay accountable.

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These are all things that make it easier. And why wouldn't you make it easier on yourself? right? Because achieving your goals is hard and tedious and boring, but you can do it. And that brings me to the final, the sixth step. And the sixth step, don't quit. Don't quit. You already know because step one required you to answer the question, how do I know if I've achieved this goal?

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And for me, I want to publish a book this year. I got to have the physical book in my hands. I'm holding the Let Them Theory book right now. That's how I knew I would achieve the goal. So step one, you already know what success looks like because you've defined it. And you've gone through and written it down and you have found the formula and you've been busy doing the boring, tedious work.

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You've taken steps to make it easy. And now the only thing you need to do is don't quit. And I'm just going to say something because now that I have this puppy in my hands and I've actually achieved the goal, do you want to know how many times I've wanted to stop Oh my gosh.

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When I first sat down to write this and was like, wait a minute, why is this simple idea let them let me so hard to write a book about? When I was on version number two, version number three, version number five, version number seven, version number nine, version number 11 of the manuscript, I wanted to stop.

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When the publisher came back and was like, ah, well, I think this, I'm like, oh my God, I don't have the energy. I wanted to stop then. And over and over and over again, you're also going to want to stop. And if I had quit at any of those moments, I wouldn't be holding this book.

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And you wouldn't be able to walk into a bookstore and grab it and read it and feel it and learn from it and understand why the let them theory is something that literally creates instant freedom and power in your life.

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And there were so many times where I was sitting here above my garage in Southern Vermont, just piles and piles and piles of manuscripts and papers around me thinking, I'm never going to get this done. And that's why... you have to remind yourself, just don't quit. See, I've come to believe that the secret to success is just not giving up. That life is constantly testing you.

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That there are gonna be days where you don't do the reps. There are gonna be weeks where you don't do the reps. There might even be months that you don't do the reps. That's okay. Because what defines your success is not the days where you do it. I actually think it's the days where you come back after you didn't do it.

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So the day that was really hard at work or the week that you were really sick and you couldn't do the reps every day, the small tedious stuff, you couldn't get out for your walk, you couldn't sit down and write, you started drinking again, whatever it is, it's the day that you return that defines success because it means you didn't quit.

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It means that even though things got hard or life derailed you or you just stopped following this system and you let life take over, you're human. That's okay. It's going to happen. Happens to me too. Absolutely happens to me too. You can always come back to this formula. Like if it is day 37, you have not eaten the way you said you would.

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You have spent a ridiculous amount of money, even though your goal is to get out of debt. You just didn't do what you said you were going to do. You didn't write. You didn't make a video. You didn't work on the budget. You didn't meditate 37 days. How about seven months have gone by? And you see that little note where you wrote down your goal. It's okay. It's still there.

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And I want you to just consider the difference between these two sentences. I dream of writing a book versus I have a goal of writing a book this year. Do you feel the difference between those two things? See, a dream is infinite. A dream only exists in your heart and your mind. A dream is trapped inside your soul and your brain. But a goal, a goal is something you do.

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You going and doing the rep defines your success. And that's always in your power. And the reason why I say don't quit is because if you look at anybody's story, it's almost always one of perseverance. You know, whether you want to talk about Michael Jordan who got cut from his high school team or anybody, honestly.

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Everybody who is successful has a story of rejection and almost quitting, and the one thing they didn't do is they didn't quit. And if you're on the verge of quitting, I've got a question here from Pilar. Mel, I've been pouring my heart into starting my online bakery, but nothing's going the way I hoped. Orders are slow. I'm exhausted. I feel like maybe I'm not cut out for this.

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I'm at such a low point. I just want to give up. How do I keep going when it feels like everything is falling apart? I so relate to this question. And what's so amazing about these six steps to achieving your goals is you just go back to step one.

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So if you're at a point where you're questioning whether or not something is working, the answer is actually in the formula I just gave you, which is go back and ask yourself the question, decide what I want. What do I really want? Do I want this to be successful or do I want to cut my losses and learn from this and move on? Like you have to answer that question because

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You have to define a new goal. And that's what I love about these six steps. It's for any goal. And the goal might be closing down this business and moving on. And the goal might be, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not giving up. Okay, great. So if you're not giving up, write it down. How are you going to know that you're successful? And then find the formula because I'm gonna tell you something.

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Do you think... there's a bakery somewhere that was on the verge of closing and then figured something out and all of a sudden had a breakthrough? Of course there is. In fact, I'd be willing to bet there's probably about 2,000 of them and they've put their story online.

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And there was a moment where they thought their bakery business was going under and then they figured out something unbelievable and it changed everything. And if it's a formula, it's out there because it works and you can find it. And then what do you do? You just do the rips. And then what do you do? You just make it easy, however you can. And then what do you do? You don't quit.

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And you just keep coming back over and over and over and over again. See, you should define what you want and you need to define how you're going to know that you've achieved it. But you have to throw the timeline out the window. You have to. Because you only have in your control what you're willing to show up and do every day.

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Your attitude, your feelings, the actions, the reps, you not quitting, that's all within your control. How long it takes to achieve this thing, I actually think that's up to forces that are way beyond you and me. But all you need to do is to keep trusting that if you keep showing up, if you keep doing the reps, if you keep this front and center, that one of these days,

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you're going to wake up and realize you not only achieved your goal, it turned out so much more extraordinary than you could have even dreamt it would be. That is what happens when you do this. And I want to read one final thing to you from the Let Them Theory book, because anything that you want to change in your life, just turn it into a goal. and then follow these six steps.

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And keep in mind that it's not gonna be fun. And this is page 10 of the Let Them Theory book. Changing my life wasn't glamorous, it was grueling. I didn't achieve success or financial freedom because of some secret. I did it because I was willing to do what most people won't. I woke up every day and regardless of how I felt, I kept slowly chipping away at my goals for over a decade.

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It is a painstakingly slow process. Some days, all I focused on was just trying to be a little better than I was the day before. And often, that's all you need to do. I'm not special or different or gifted or lucky. I just found the tools that work for me and I use them. And today, my entire career and life's purpose is sharing those tools with you.

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And the six steps that I just walked you through, this is my formula for success. This is how I achieve absolutely every single goal, whether it's personal, whether it's something with a relationship, whether it is creating new friendships, whether it's making more money, whether it's launching a new business, anything. This is my formula and I want you to steal it.

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And more importantly, when would you know that a dream is realized? Well, I don't know. I mean, it's kind of like a dream is realized when you close your eyes and you imagine it, right? You dream of being healthier. You dream of someday being healthy enough to run a 5K or a marathon versus I have a goal this year of getting in shape and training and running a 5K or a marathon.

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The five second rule is going to help you push through all of these internal obstacles and take action when you don't feel motivated to do so. You're never going to feel ready to change your life. One day you just get tired of your own BS and you force yourself to do it. You're never going to feel like going to the gym. One day you just make yourself go.

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And you're never going to feel like having that hard conversation. One day you just get sick of avoiding it and you force yourself to have it. And you're never going to feel like looking for a better job. One day you just push yourself to start looking.

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Every single change that you want to make in your life comes down to defining it as a goal and using the six steps that I just laid out to help you achieve it. And I'm telling you this, and I'm so excited for you because you have no idea what you're capable of. And neither did I.

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But I promise you this, you follow these six steps over and over and over again, and through these simple actions, you will achieve some extraordinary things in your life. And I can say that because I just gave you the formula for doing it.

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You define what you want, you write it down, you find the formula, you do the reps, you find simple ways to try to make it more fun and easy, and you just don't quit until you achieve it. You do that over and over and over again, and you will be astonished by the things that you accomplish in your life. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode as soon as you hit play.

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Can you tell me like if the book is in view, Jesse? Okay, great. But every time you sit there and you stay silent or you hide in the back of a group photo, you are engaging in self-reflect. Sorry, we're going to add that part. And before we get into that, your friend Mel Robbins needs to do the reps of raising the glass to my mouth and drinking a little bit more water.

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Oh my gosh, I'm getting my water in today. Holy cow. Achieving that goal. Check the box. How could you set up the environment to help you? Like think about your physical environment. There we go. And if you use it for long enough, you're going to be shocked by what you can achieve. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. I think we'll just end with, and so can you. Okay, great.

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Let me reverse these two. It is a goal of mine to have my dog stop barking. Actually, I cannot control the fact that the dog is doing that, but God, I smell terrible. You sure? It's so inspiring. Okay, good. I feel like my face is like the color of a tomato right now. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Stitcher.

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And so today, I am breaking down the science, and more importantly, I am giving you the six simple steps that you can follow to achieve absolutely any goal. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so thrilled to be here with you today.

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Do you feel how different they are? It's because one exists in your mind and the other exists in the world. And this is critical. And so you have to have step one. You have to decide what you want. And when you do this, I want you to think about this as I'm asking you this question for step one. Decide what you want. And it could be anything. I want to drink more water.

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Another goal could be, I want to start a YouTube channel this year. Another goal might be, I want to go back and earn my degree in nursing. Another goal might be, I want to get out of debt and create financial freedom. Great. That's you deciding what you want and speaking it in the language of a goal. Now I'm going to take it a step further.

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Here's a question I want you to ask yourself because we're not moving to step two of achieving your goals until we get step one on lock. Okay. And here's the question I want you to ask yourself. How are you going to know that you've achieved it? How are you going to know? So let's take the example of financial freedom. Like you'll know you're out of debt because your credit cards are paid off.

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Great goal. How am I gonna know you're financially free? What's the number in the bank? How are you going to know it? How are you going to measure it? And this is critically important because if you can't measure it, it's not a goal. It's just a wish, a want, or a dream. We gotta get specific because you gotta not only step one, decide what you want,

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You got to be able to answer the question, how are you going to know you actually achieved it? Because goals are not things you think about. Goals are things you do. When I think about the goals that I've achieved, I've gotten myself out of financial freefall. I mean, many of you know, I was 800 grand in debt just 15 years ago and facing bankruptcy.

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I have gotten myself into a healthier place and have a consistent exercise routine. And that was a goal because my hormones went all over the place. And then I started to gain weight. And so I made it a goal. What do I want? I want to understand my hormones and I want to develop an exercise routine that makes me feel healthy again, which means I can fit into a size 28 pair of pants.

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That was my goal. I can measure it. I can measure that. That's a goal. What's another one? I want to drink more water. And for me, that means I want to drink two, I think these are quart size. I drink two quart size, you can hear the ice, mason jars every day. That's my goal. That's how I know that I've achieved it. What's another one? I want to be a published author.

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How do I know that I'm a published author? The only way that I know is I got a book in my hands. That's how I know I'm a published author. I can dream about it all day long, but I know I've achieved it if I can define the terms and conditions under which I'm going to check the box and say, I did that.

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And so in everything that I do, whether it's launching a podcast or it's getting out of debt or it's getting healthy and in shape in the middle of big hormone shifts, every single one of these things is just defining a goal, deciding what I want, determining how I'm going to measure that I've actually achieved the thing. And that's step one. And so whatever it is that you have, you do step one.

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And now we're going to move to step two. You ready? Good. Step two, write it down. Write it down. I know you're thinking, okay, Mel, this is pretty basic stuff here. I know. And I bet you haven't even written down your goals. And this is a major mistake. And it's a major mistake for two reasons.

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One has to do with the physical act of taking your goal out of your brain, which is basically a dream or a wish or a want, and grounding it in the real world on physical paper. And this is an extremely important act for you to do. It's almost like an act of defiance.

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I cannot wait to share everything that we're going to talk about today regarding the research around goals and achieving goals and the six simple steps that I followed. This is a formula that I have developed over the course of a decade of business and health and life changes. These are the six simple steps that will help you achieve any goal. I don't care what the goal is.

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Like if you're somebody that struggled with your weight and you're going to stop dreaming about being healthier and you're going to create a goal and exactly what you want, I want to lose 50 pounds, write it on a piece of paper. Write down the weight. Write down how you know you're going to achieve it.

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If you've been struggling for a while and you have the audacity and the courage and the clarity to write down what you want in the face of where you've been, you, my friend, are on your way to achieving it. And I pulled some of the research on this and there's two benefits, okay? And it has to do with something called external storage.

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I know it's like a fancy word for something really simple and obvious once I explain it to you. But when you write it down on a piece of paper, and let's just take the thing I'm gonna keep talking about. You wanna be a published author. I wanna write a book, okay? When you say, I want to write a book, That's what I'm doing this year.

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And I'm going to know that I have written a book when it's actually physically printed. When you write that down on a piece of paper, that's step two, write it down. That piece of paper is something researchers call external storage paper. Now, this is where it gets cool. That paper and the fact that you've written it down reminds you of the goal. And then you're gonna tack it up somewhere. Why?

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Because you're gonna see it every day. And it's gonna remind you that this is something that's important to you. And then what starts to happen is what researchers call encoding. Encoding is when your brain sees something, something as basic as the goal and the thing that you want written down on a piece of paper with clarity.

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When your brain sees it, the information, check this out, gets transferred to the hippocampus for analysis. And this part of the brain is where the brain decides, well, what's important to store in the long-term memory and what can we throw out? This is the process of your brain encoding the goal. Why?

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Because you're telling your brain every day through this piece of paper that this matters to you. Now, why is that important, Mel? I'll tell you why writing it down, step two, is so important. Because when you encode your brain

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with the thing that matters to you, whether it's getting healthy or it's being in a loving relationship or it's making $100,000 this year or it's getting into nursing school. When you see that every day, here's what's going on. See, your brain all day long has to filter all kinds of information from social media to stuff at work, to things going on with your family, to text messages, to emails.

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But guess what? If you've written this down, this goal that you have, and your brain sees it every day, as your brain is busy going through the day and it's filtering out information, guess what you've done? You've encoded this little checklist in your brain. So suddenly you're going to start to notice, oh, wow, there's an article about writing a book.

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Oh, wow, there's an exercise routine that can be done in 15 minutes. Interesting. Why am I starting to see things related to my goal? I'll tell you why. This is so well-researched. I'm not even going to take the time to explain all of the studies and research that explains this. You're basically telling your brain what matters to you. You're telling your brain, this is important.

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And I want you to remember it, brain, because as you're looking around the world, if you see something that I've encoded, like writing a book or losing weight, then I want you to bring it to my attention. And I can explain how this works with a simple example. Have you ever bought a car or just been interested in a car?

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These are the steps that you need to follow. These are the steps that work. I wanna tell you, it is always such an honor to be able to spend some time together with you, but I am particularly excited because what I'm about to teach you today It works. And these are simple steps. And if you follow them, I don't care how ambitious your goals are. You can achieve your goals.

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And then all of a sudden, like you're interested in the new Ford Bronco, they're everywhere. Why? Because when you saw the Bronco and you said to yourself, oh my God, I love the Bronco. And then you look at it in the marketing materials, oh my gosh, I love the Bronco. And then you see it on social media, oh my gosh, I love the Bronco.

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And then you see your neighbor has one, oh my gosh, I'm kind of jealous because I like the Bronco. You're telling your brain it's important to you. You are encoding this interest in your mind. So now your brain is going to go to work. And what do you see everywhere? Broncos.

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That's just the basic way that your brain works to take what's important or what your brain thinks is important to you and to filter the world in a way to help you see more of it. Isn't that kind of cool? So that's one reason why you have to write your goal down. I'm going to publish a book by the end of the year. That's my goal. you're going to be shocked at what you start to see.

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Because if you see this thing written down by your computer every single day or on the home screen of your phone, you're going to start to notice, oh my gosh, this thing that I'm interested in, it's everywhere. And that's going to help you. It's going to help you a lot. Now, there's a second reason why I want you to write the goal down and be brave.

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And be specific and claim that thing that you want. And this is research that shows that when you write things down, you're actually more likely to achieve it. And there's a number of reasons why. One of the reasons why has to do with what I just explained to you about how your brain now knows it's important.

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So it's going to filter the world in a way to help you see more opportunities to advance the goal. The second reason why this matters is because it's going to help you remember to do it. And it's gonna remind you on those days where you're not motivated or you feel a little down, oh yeah, this thing is important to me.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for our topic today because we have one mother of a topic. What is it? Motherhood. So me personally, I'm a mom of three adult kids, and I gotta say, motherhood, it is a journey, and there are some days it just feels like a bad trip. Boy, have I made some mistakes.

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I don't want the one that's pissed off at the world. Right. And so I think that, you know, you will screw things up and you have to give yourself grace because as your child grows, you're going to grow and learn. That's how you do it. Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Yeah. And, you know, you can also apologize to your kids. I certainly have.

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I'm really sorry I was not able to be, you know, a person that had a more stable emotional personality when you guys were younger. I'm really sorry that dad and I were fighting all the time when we were struggling financially. I'm really sorry that there were mornings where my kids literally would be ready. They'd get themselves ready for the buses when we were really struggling financially.

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I'm trying to think how the kids were like 10 and eight. And Sawyer and Kendall would literally wake Chris and I up. We were in these chairs, Jessie, drunk. We had been drinking all night because of all the financial stress. And they'd like tap, tap, tap. And the bus is coming. Wow. And I screwed that up. And so it's okay to apologize. Yeah. You're not supposed to be perfect.

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You just do the best that you can with the resources that you have and the skill set that you have. And, you know, there's this concept that I absolutely love. This comes from both Dr. Nicola Perla and Dr. Russell Kennedy.

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And there's this concept of a parental mismatch, which means there are going to be times when you're parenting, given what you're doing in your life, given where Jim is, given the age of your kids, where you and your kids are a mismatch.

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What your kids need, ideally, in terms of the support they need or the emotional reassurance they need is not something based on your skills or your life experience or what's going on in your life that you're actually able to give them. And in those moments where there's a mismatch, they need something and you're giving them everything you have to give, but it's not satiating what they need.

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And if you're a brand new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Boy, have you picked a winner. And because you made the time. to hit play and listen to this particular episode. Here's what I know about you.

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And I think this is where there's a lot of stuff that comes up when you get older with your parents. And there's a lot of stuff online, you know, trauma and this and that, not to say the terrible stuff didn't go down, but we're very quick to talk about the impact and injury to us and not that compassionate with understanding that you were likely dealing with a human being in your parents

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who was emotionally immature, who had trauma of their own, who did not get their needs met by their parents, and so they show up to the world of parenting having skills, experiences, past experiences, an emotional state, financial stress, issues that you're not aware of, And they do the best they can with where they're at. And there's this visual that I talk about a lot. It's Pastor T.D.

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Jakes, and I believe he's talking to Oprah Winfrey, talking about how if you're dealing with a person that has a quarter cup of capacity for support and love, but you're a gallon person. If your parent, because of their past, can only give you a quarter cup, that's never going to feel like they actually saw you.

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But to your parent, they gave you everything they had to give. Right. And that's what I mean by the mismatch. So when I was extremely stressed out and I was drinking too much and Chris and I were fighting because of the financial pressure, my kids needed me to be present. I was not.

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My kids deserved and needed a mom that when they got home from school, weren't walking up to the front door going, uh-oh, who's in there?

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Not that I was beating them, but emotionally, they didn't know what was going to come. I might be stressed. I might be frustrated. I might be angry. I might be yelling about the dad or this or that. I might be sad. And so I was a complete mismatch for what they actually needed. Does that make sense? Yes. Even though I was trying with every cell in my body to do the best that I could.

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And so fast forward a decade, I apologize a lot for that because they didn't deserve that. And if I could go back in time, you know, people always ask, what advice would you give your younger self? If I could go back in time, actually, I would help the younger parent version of me with my own emotional maturity and regulation so that I could be a safe place to land for my kids.

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You're the kind of person who values your family, and that can be your given family, it can be your chosen family, and you also value celebrating the special people in your life. And I wanna tell you something before we jump into the topic of all things moms and kids and the connection between you and your mom, is someone sent you this episode. I'll tell you why.

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I think the thing that surprises me the most is how much you have to change your approach given the situation or if you have several kids, which kid you're dealing with. Like my philosophy about parenting is that your job is to be a guide. You're a guide in helping her become who she's supposed to be.

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And so that's a very different role than thinking, I'm a parent, we're a family that skis. I'm a parent, we're a family that plays lacrosse. I'm a parent, everybody in our family's a doctor. Well, that's your vision. That's not guiding somebody. That's dictating who they are based on your expectations.

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If you embrace the role of a parent to be, I am a guide that is helping somebody figure out who they are, which means I make it safe for them to feel what they feel. I am open and generous and supportive with all the things they want to try. If they want to do music instead of sports, let them, right? If they end up falling in love with somebody that you don't like, let them.

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Like your job is not to dictate who this person is. Your job is to create an environment where it's safe for them to discover who they are. Literally, this comes from Dr. Stuart Ablon, who I just love from Harvard Medical School and Mass General Brigham. He calls it the with them parenting approach. Well, what do you want to do about it? And how can I support you?

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Even your six-year-old can think about some of these things. You know, how do you feel about that? Because what you're doing when you start to ask questions like that is you're guiding people. your child and inviting them to think through situations because they're going to have to learn as an adult to live with the consequences of their decisions.

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So helping them think through situations and being curious about what they might think, that's a super important aspect of this because when, you know, the whole point, Jessie, is for your daughter to actually get through high school and leave. Right. That's the point.

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And if you do it well, they not only leave and have the tools to create a life, but because you've been a guide and not a dictator, and because you have also created a safe space, they're always going to come back.

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They're always going to want to see you.

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And that's the one thing I'm so proud of with all three of our kids is that I think the one thing that Chris and I did really well is that we tried to get our egos out of the way and we tried our best to create an environment where our kids could truly become who they're meant to be.

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Yes.

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I think I remember this. Yeah. Because this was before the room looked like this and she came tearing upstairs about something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. This is the single most important question a parent could ever ask a child. Do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen?

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It's because they really want to have a closer connection with you. And if you're a mom, they probably sent it to you also to tell you, you did a good job, and I think you're going to love hearing the conversation today. Because today, you and I are talking all about moms. And you certainly have a mom, or if she's no longer with us, you had one, or you had a mother figure.

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And the reason why this question is so important is because for me personally, nine times out of 10, if your kid comes to you with a problem or they're upset about something or they're just even talking about something, I mean, we're older, we have more life experience. So of course we just jump right in to the conversation and start solving and offering solutions. And your kids don't want that.

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What they want is they want you to listen. And so that question, I can't remember who I learned it from. Do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen? Stops you from stepping in and dictating what your kid does. When you say, do you want my advice or you just want me to listen? You're actually letting them have their own experience. You're letting them share their life with you.

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And then the second part of that, when you let me be a guide, not a dictator. Do you want my advice or just want me to listen? Now I'm guiding the conversation and I'm signaling that I actually believe in your ability to know what you want and to ask for what you want. And this beautiful space opens up between the two of you.

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And what I discovered with my kids anyway, is that 99% of the time, they do not want my advice. They just want a safe place to come and air it out. Right. And that's that. And you can use that in a marriage. You can use it with friendship anytime somebody comes to you, but particularly kids. I want you to say, do you want my advice or you just want me to listen?

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And you're going to be surprised not only about how often they just need you to listen, but actually if you ask them, well, have you thought what you might want to do about it? How smart they actually are. This feels like a great place to hit the pause button because as a pregnant woman, I know you have to go to the bathroom. Yes.

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And I also want to give you a chance to share this with people in your life, whether it's your mom and dad or somebody in your life that is about to have a baby or maybe has a little baby or maybe it's one of your adult kids. And you want to open up a door to be able to talk about... their experiences and your experiences and what you can both learn from them. So share this. Don't go anywhere.

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We're going to let Jesse go to the bathroom. I might go to the bathroom too, but we're both going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are hanging out with Jessie. She's 36 weeks pregnant. She's about to have her first daughter. We're so excited here at the Mel Robbins podcast.

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And Jessie, one other thing that I really want to say, because this was a mistake that I made when our kids got into middle school. The single most important thing that you have to protect is your kids' trust in you. And the fastest way for you to guarantee that your kids will never tell you anything is if your kids come to you. Do you want my advice or just want to listen? Right.

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So your kids come to you. and they start telling you about things that are going on with their friends or at school, you are gonna wanna call your friends, especially if they're the parents of the other kids. You are gonna wanna tell the other parents what's going on.

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And if you are a mom, or if you're about to be a mom, or if you're wondering, do I even... Want to have kids? Well, this is going to make you think so differently.

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And you have to be very careful because if your child comes to you out of trust and is just sharing what's going on with their life, that's a beautiful thing. It shows that they trust you. If they said don't tell anybody, don't tell anybody.

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And if you go to another parent or you go to another friend and you then share what they told you, if it's another parent, that parent's going to tell their child and then that child's going to tell it back at school. And then your kid is going to find out at school that you broke their trust.

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If you say, I won't tell your father, and then you tell their father, and then you say to the father, don't tell them, and then the father tells them, you just broke the trust. And so there's a couple caveats to this. So if any of my kids ever came to me and said, don't tell dad, what I would say to them is, I understand why you may not want me to, but dad and I are a team and dad loves you.

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And I'm asking your permission to tell him because I'm uncomfortable withholding information from him. and I promise you you're not going to get in trouble, and I promise you we're going to work together on this, and I promise you that he won't tell anybody, but I need your permission to tell him, or you and I can go together, and you can tell him when I'm with you. What would you like to do?

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And it's so cool because there has never been an instance where they haven't said okay. They may have been scared of his reaction, But what you're also cutting off at the knees is that thing that kids do so beautifully where they separate the two of you and then they turn the two of you against each other. And the other caveat I would say, if they go, why don't you tell anybody?

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First of all, about your own experience growing up, about the role of a parent, about the fears that are so normal to have before you become a parent, the questions that people have about whether or not they even want to become a mom or a dad. This conversation is going to just crack open your heart. It's going to make you think about your own childhood, about your own mom.

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Be like, well, that's actually not one of the options, honey. And I think you came to me because you know that and you know me. And what that does is it keeps the trust between you and And your child, because if you break that trust, they're now going to take every issue in their life to their friends and they're never going to tell you anything. Right. And it just empowers them. Yes.

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And by the way, this is true whether you have kids or not. This is true of friendship. This is true of a partnership. This is true about how your mom might complain about your dad. Do you allow people to share information and then do you actually trust? Do you seek permission to tell? Do you tell somebody I'm uncomfortable knowing this without being able to do something?

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You have more power than you realize in these situations. And if you really want to prioritize trust with somebody, then really take seriously those moments where somebody shares something with you. And if you do want to tell somebody, ask permission and explain why. And if you got it wrong, how I learned this lesson is I actually got it wrong.

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I had one of my kids come to me and tell me something that was going on. And then I casually shared it. It was about drinking, you know, in like high school. I casually shared it with one of my closest friends because I just assumed she knew about this party. Her daughter hadn't told her that's where they were.

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So then the daughter gets grounded and then blames my daughter and then it becomes this whole thing. And I did that to myself. And so I learned this the hard way and it took me a couple years to actually build up trust again with my daughter because I was the one who broke it.

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Oh my God, I know too much. It's like too much. Can't you talk to your gynecologist about that?

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Oh my gosh. You know, I have so many moments that I've messed up as a mom. Oh, I know a good one. Oh, I know a good one. Yes. All right. Let's hear it. Oh, my gosh. Our son Oakley had the most annoying anxiety in the world. And he would get all worked up because whenever we would go anywhere that was new, there was like this range of time where everything was collapsing in his life.

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We didn't know he had dyslexia yet. He was changing schools. Like all this stuff was changing. His anxiety was through the roof and he became extraordinarily anxious about everything. And he had this incredible fear of throwing up, incredible fear. And there were a number of moments Where, oh my God, like there are so many moments.

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There were moments where we spent all this money to take the kids to go see this particular Broadway show where Ben Platt was in it. It was the, I can't remember what it was. And we're up in the balcony and Oakley starts having a freaking panic attack because he thinks it's going to throw up.

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this poor little guy. Yeah. And I couldn't be kind. And we were on an airplane once and he starts freaking out and wiggling, I'm gonna throw up, I'm gonna throw up. And I'm like, you're not gonna throw up. And I'm like taking him to the thing and I would get so frustrated. And We get out and of course he vomits all over the airport. Oh. Yeah, poor Luke.

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You're going to want to share this with your sisters, with your friends, with your mom, your daughter-in-laws, your daughters. Anybody that's about to have kids are going to love this or just had a baby. I cannot wait to see how this opens up really amazing conversations with you and the people that you care about.

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I'm an asshole because it became such a thing that instead of meeting it with compassion, I felt so ill-equipped with how to deal with it. I met it with anger and frustration. And nine times out of 10, it was nothing. Like it was nothing for me in terms of he wasn't throwing up. It was just this thing that became a trigger. And we were talking about it the other day, actually.

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And as we were talking about it, I started to cry and I was just like, I am so sorry. Like you didn't get the support you deserved. And that's on me. Like the second that you felt scared or upset or thought you were going to throw, like I wish I would have just put my arms around you and comforted you.

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You know, I would in the beginning and then I'd just get so worked up and then I'd get frustrated with it. And I'm just like apologized and apologized and apologized. We were sitting there the other night here. And that is something that I wish I could go back and change because I think I made his anxiety worse.

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And I think it's normal to get frustrated and exacerbated with your kids, especially when they have mental health problems or they have a lot of behavioral stuff or like you're just going through situations where you just can't catch a break. But I just feel so bad at just how I just would just get, I must have been like a grizzly bear to him.

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I'm like, no, it's actually not okay. I need you to understand. And I started crying that I really screwed up. Like you deserve somebody in your life that could actually meet that moment and comfort you. And I take responsibility for the fact that this stuck around for several years because I'd say half of the times when this was happening, because it was always like out in public.

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I just got so frustrated with you and I'm so sorry.

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Jessie, I'm so glad we're having this conversation because first of all, your daughter's our first baby here at the Mel Robbins Podcast. Yes. Team 143 Studios. You're not going to be alone because you have so many mother hens that are about to swoop in. You'll never even be able to hold your daughter. So I am so excited because I see a stack of questions from listeners.

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And now that we've covered a lot of the stuff about your questions, don't go anywhere because we're going to be digging into your relationship with your parents, adult kids, the mistakes that you may have made or that your mother or father may be made when you were growing up. We have so many incredible questions from you to dig into when we return. Stay with us. Welcome back.

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That it makes you think differently about one of the most important jobs in the world. And that's the job of being a mom. And today, I'm so excited to dive into this because I have my friend and colleague, Jessie, here. And Jessie is one month away from becoming a mom for the first time. She's terrified and excited.

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It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are having an amazing conversation about just the experience of being a kid, of parenting, of your relationship with your parents, mistakes made, things that you can do better, how to get closer to somebody. And we're going to jump into more topics around parenting itself. And as you listen, even if you're not a parent,

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I want you to think about your own parents and your relationship with your parents. If you are a parent, like none of the things that I'm sharing are the right way to do it. And I guarantee you, you're going to start to reflect back on the way that you did things. And I can't wait to hear the things that you share in the comments.

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And I also can't wait to see who you share this with in your family and how it opens up a really awesome opportunity to talk about you're growing up, to talk about the things that you've learned, to talk about the things that you wish you would have done differently. And with that, I'm joined by Jessie, who is 36 weeks pregnant.

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She's about to have a daughter and it's going to be the first baby at the Mel Robbins podcast. We're all so excited. And Jessie, what's the next question?

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Gosh, there's so much to say on this topic. I think that with guilt, first, it's important, and I didn't understand that, to recognize that if you need to work because you need money to pay your bills, you should not feel guilty about You should feel proud of the fact that you are doing what is necessary to be able to financially take care of this little person.

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That is not something to feel guilty about. That is something to recognize and acknowledge yourself because it's a sense of responsibility that goes straight to safety and the ability to take care of somebody. Right.

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And if your kids are in daycare or they have a babysitter because you're working so that you can pay your bills, that is not something to be guilty about because you're taking responsibility for what is necessary in order to take care of somebody. And so that is a really important thing to understand. Now, if you feel guilty because you don't want to be working,

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you want to be home, that is a different form of guilt. In my case, I started to feel really guilty because as I was making a living speaking and my kids were older, I would be, I don't know, in Kansas City giving a speech. I loved it, but I felt so guilty because I was not at the field hockey game back in Boston.

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You've got to ask yourself, is this guilt just the bullshit that the world has told me That as a woman, I need to be everywhere. Yes. Because a lot of guys don't feel this way.

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Because they get gaslit into believing that their only value is in providing. Right. And so if you're feeling guilty, ask yourself, is this just society telling me that I'm supposed to be somewhere or I'm supposed to be everywhere? Or... is this a different kind of guilt? Because there's two kinds of guilt. There's the destructive guilt, and that's the kind of guilt that society puts on you.

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And so today, we're sitting down, you and me, with Jessie, and we're getting real and honest about what nobody tells you about motherhood. And I'm super excited because Jessie literally could have her water break in the middle of this. That is how pregnant she is. I'm so excited to dive into this. Everything from pregnancy, parenting, priorities, guilt, your relationship with your own parents.

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You're not doing mothering right. You're not spending enough time with your kids. You need to be breastfeeding. You can't do this. You can't do that. You got to do this thing. That guilt is bullshit. You shouldn't be working. You should be out. Bullshit. The second type of guilt is is productive. And that's the type I'm talking about. Productive guilt is actually tied to deep values.

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And what that productive guilt was telling me, Jesse, at that moment in time, was that I valued family. Yes. And I had reached my goal of paying off our bills and And we had enough money to live that that guilt was saying, you need to stop taking so much work on and you need to be home more because you're missing out on something you value. Do you see how that's very different?

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And I'll give you the other end of the spectrum. So when Sawyer was born and also when Kendall was born, the same with Oakley, we couldn't afford our house unless we were both working.

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And we didn't have family nearby. And so the math equation was such that at the time, this would have been 1999 and 2000 and kind of 2007, we both needed to be working. If we just wanted to keep our house, then we both needed to work and we needed to tighten the belt a little bit so we could also pay for daycare. And I didn't actually feel guilty

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about working or having my kids in daycare because I knew that the reason why I was working, it was tied to a core value of wanting to provide. Do you see how that, do you see what I mean? It's putting a roof over everyone's head. Yes. And so if it's tied to a value of, then you're not going to feel guilty.

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And the final thing that I'm going to say about work and life, and I don't ever use the word balancing at all because you have a very full life. It's not about balancing at all. Right. It's more like a Lego kit. There's all different squares everywhere.

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How do I create boundaries so that I can fit in the things that matter? And boundaries can look like I work during the day, I go home at five, I don't, or I go home at three, I don't look at my phone. Right. And I don't look at my laptop. But as soon as the baby goes down for the night, I actually finish up my day for an hour. Do you see what I mean? Like you can have boundaries.

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And whether you're a mom, you wanna be one, you've lost one, or you're still trying to figure out your relationship with yours, I cannot wait to have this conversation with you. And you don't need to be a mom, by the way, or even want to be a mom to get something out of what we're gonna talk about.

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And what I would recommend is try not to be... From the beginning, to the extent that you can figure out how to have boundaries where I'm going to be present with her here, and then I'm going to work for this period of time. It's going to be a whole blend for the first six months or so until you get into a rhythm.

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But thinking about it that way, like if I'm going to be present for work, I want to be present for work. If I'm going to be present with her, I'm going to be present for her. And kind of thinking about those boundaries are really important.

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No, nothing has to change. And one of the most beautiful things that you can give to a child is showing them a mom who has ambition. Because, you know, you weren't put on this planet, Jessie, to be a mother or a wife. You were put on this planet to be you. And being a mom and being a wife and being a studio manager and a video editor and all this stuff, those are all pieces of who you are.

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Let's get into it. Jessie, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You know what's crazy about this, Jessie? What? Normally you're the one filming. I know. I know. Well, this is the only way I could get you off your feet because your blood pressure is high. Yes. And I know you're not supposed to be standing up. And so we put you in a chair and handed you a mic.

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And losing who you are to your kids is not necessarily a service to them because who's going to teach them what it looks like to build a full life? It's you. Right. And that's exactly what you're going to do. Right.

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Yes. The thing that changed my life with little kids—I don't know how old her kid is—is it's critical that after you put them to bed and you do your nightly routine with your kid— And if you don't have one, like look at when your kid is going to bed. Okay. Because they should probably be in bed by eight o'clock. No, I'm serious. Like there's this huge trend of keeping kids awake at night.

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I don't understand this. I didn't even know that. No, your kids desperately need sleep for their development. And so do you. And so developing a really steady night routine, that is a certain time we go upstairs, we run the bath, we put on the jammies, we put like the whole thing that just gets them in the routine, eight o'clock you're in bed.

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Now you have an hour where you can kind of clean things up. And the most important thing is get everything ready for tomorrow morning. Pack the lunches, pack the backpack, organize your stuff for work because the things that you do at night create time and peace in the morning. Mm-hmm.

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So absolutely everything that you can do the night before, from packing the lunch to packing the backpacks to packing your work stuff to gathering it all to even picking out the coat and the boots, put it all by the door so you don't have to scramble for anything. You do that at night and you probably just gained 30 minutes of calm in the morning.

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Because once you're under the gun in the morning and your stress level goes up, isn't it interesting how you can never find anything? Ever. Right. So doing it at night is a lifesaver. That's one thing. In the morning, you need to get up a half an hour earlier than you do. And the reason why I say that is because if you start to develop a very consistent bedtime, so I'm sorry, we're just a family.

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You go to sleep, you don't have your devices, you know, like you're in bed because mom needs to be in bed by 9.30. You see how this works? And if you're in bed by 9.30, that means you can get a good night's sleep and wake up a half an hour before your child typically gets up. And that's when you exercise. That's when you have your time for yourself.

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That's when you set up your day so that you are feeling okay before the chaos. Because when you're a parent, the second the children are awake, your day is no longer yours. The only chance you have, I am not going to lie to you, the second your child wakes up, the day is no longer yours.

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And now we're going to talk all things motherhood. You ready? So ready. How long have we worked together? Four years. Four years. Okay. So we've worked at four years. Really? I know. Gosh. And so Jesse's pregnant with her first child. And what's really weird sitting with you is that I'm sitting here and I feel like we're at two totally different kind of ends of the mom scale, right?

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At some point in getting your child out the door, you're going to look at your phone, which means your brain is no longer yours because now you're thinking about work or you're thinking about social media or thinking about the news. You are not going to get your brain or your time back for the rest of the day. It's gone. It's already over.

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And so thinking about protecting those early morning hours for you and thinking about how you use the evening in your own wind down to pack up everything and get yourself ready, that changes everything.

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Put your hand on your heart. In fact, just breathe in with me. And just say, I'm doing the best that I can with the resources I have at this moment in my life. I'm going to learn from this. I'm a good mom and I am going to continue to grow with my kids. This moment is not going to last forever. and I'm going to learn from it. And I just got to give myself some grace.

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Like sometimes just, if all you have to give is 60% and you give 60%, you gave the 100% you had to give. And recognizing there are going to be times in your life where you only have 60% to give. And if you can figure out how to give all that and give yourself a little grace, like you deserve the acknowledgement that you gave what you had to give.

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That you did a great job. Like stop beating yourself up. There are things that we all in the rear view mirror, like feel like we could have done better. And it is never too late to apologize for the mistakes that you've made or the things that you see from where you are now about how you've grown that you would have done differently.

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And I find that every time I have one of those conversations with my kids, first of all, they're very forgiving. but they so appreciate the fact that I'm willing to say, I screwed that up and you deserved better. And it's like this, like, for both of us. And so acknowledging the things that you wish you could change is a beautiful way to almost like clear the slate and create something new.

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And that's the other thing. I think it's never too late to improve, change, grow closer to somebody. So if you've grown distant from your kids or you've grown distant from your parents or the resentment has built up or you feel like you can always, always, always, I think, find ways to reconnect. And the Let Them Theory has actually been wildly helpful for me

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learning at this point in my life how to love people as they are and stop trying to change them. Because when you look at your kids and you want to change them, you want them to be more motivated, you want them to get better grades, you wish you weren't dating that person. Wanting more for somebody is a beautiful thing.

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But when you really think that's what should happen, you're not loving them, you're judging them. And our kids know that. And the same is true with your parents. That for me, the single biggest thing that's helped my relationships is the let them theory.

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I kid you not because it forced me to have to learn how to stop controlling and changing and wishing people were different and actually do the work to see people as they are and learn how to love and accept them as they are. And that doesn't come by changing other people. It comes from changing yourself and the judgments that you have about other people.

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And then you go to the let me part, which is, okay, if I'm gonna let this person be who they are, and I'm gonna stop trying to change them, and I'm gonna learn to accept them exactly as they are right now, let me figure out how I wanna show up in this dynamic. And if you want more connection, it's not on them, it's on you. And you may have somebody that is not reaching back out.

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If they're not, it tells me that there's probably something that's built up, some friction, some something that is just in the way. And see, I think everything through acknowledging mistakes made, through learning to accept people instead of judging people, And really determining for yourself, what kind of relationship do I want?

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Where you are cooking a little baby in there. And you're about to be a mom. And today is Sawyer's 26th birthday. And Kendall is 24. And Oakley is 19, soon to be 20. And so having, I can't believe I've been a mom for 26 years. Right? And they still talk to me. Yes, they want to talk to you. So you're 36 weeks pregnant.

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And if I'm willing to really invest the time and energy in showing up differently, then that's where I have the power to change the dynamic here. I really do believe that with time, with grace, with compassion, with acceptance, that you can move closer to people that you feel distance from and you can apologize and you can forgive yourself and you can make amends and you can do better.

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even when you've made a lot of mistakes in the past. Like it is the time that you put into your relationship with your kids or your parents or your siblings or your friends, like it just pays dividends. All the research is very clear. And this comes from Dr. Robert Waldinger, who is the fourth director of the Harvard Study for Adult Development, which has been going on for like 86 years.

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You want to be happy and healthy in your life. You want to have a meaningful life. It's just all about relationships. And whether as you're listening, you're thinking about your own experience as a parent, or you're thinking about your parents, or you're like Jesse, about to be a parent, or you are contemplating whether or not you would ever want kids or not.

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Like everything we're talking about is the basics of relationships with any human being.

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It's just that when you're a parent, you are responsible for parenting, which is keeping them safe and giving them shelter and food and teaching them the characters and values that you want to instill and then getting out of the way and guiding them and supporting them and becoming who they're meant to be. And they're not meant to be a mini you. Not at all.

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They are a blend and their own unique, amazing, fabulous miracle. Why would you want to shove a miracle into a little box? Why wouldn't you want to expand what's possible? And the only way that you do that is to A, get out of the way. And stop dictating what they do, but guiding what they do. And B, trust that they are actually something miraculous.

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And they are capable of figuring out who they are. And they need your guidance. They don't need to be told what to do or dictated to. They need guidance and support in becoming who they're meant to become.

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Well, you got no choice at this point because it's happening, Jessie.

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Good luck. I can't wait to meet her. It's so exciting. So exciting. And I also just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for listening to this. Thank you for sharing this with your parents, with the people that you care about, with friends your age. Like, it's so exciting what's possible.

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I mean, I have screwed up so much of my life that I love knowing that even the screw ups and mistakes that I've made... that you can learn from them, you can apologize for them. And that's a beautiful thing. And in case nobody else tells you this, I want to tell you that I love you. And let me unpack what love is, because I think this is very important.

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Love is not just reserved for families or for your kids or your parents. Love is very simple. It's just when you admire something in someone and when you have them in mind, consideration. And I admire the fact that you make the time to listen to something that could help you create a better life. I think that's so cool. And in terms of consideration, I know you don't have a lot of time.

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And you still hit play and you still spend your most precious resource together with me. And so I always have you in mind when I am talking to you, when we're thinking about the topics. And so that's why I say I love you. I admire you and I have you in mind. And that's that. And there's no doubt that you've got the tools and the inspiration to create a better life.

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So I cannot wait to hear what you think about this episode. And I can't wait to welcome you back into the very next one. The moment you hit play, I'll be waiting for you and I'll see you there. Were you waiting for the update on Jessie? I get it. I could not wait to hear how everything went. Spoiler alert, it all went really well.

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Here's Jessie with an update taped live from her new baby's nursery.

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Okay, we ready? All right, let's get a little Chucky check. Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Okay, here we go. All right. It looks cute when you're standing up. When you sit down, I look like I have a beer keg for a stomach and big balls hanging off my check the way it's like looking at my things. Okay, let's pull this out.

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I look more pregnant than you do. You might be. Oh, no. It's all dry down there. That's not happening. Not as in dry on the outside, meaning it's dried up the baby making factory on the inside. So good. Wow. The energy is here. Okay. Okay. This is how we do it. So good. Nice. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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Yes.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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And there's so many things that I love about you, Jessie. And since you may not have met Jessie, I just want to tell you a little bit about Jessie. So Jessie and I met here in Southern Vermont because we were both dragged here by people we love. She was dragged here by her husband. and his job and she left her dream job.

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So Jesse is not like, I would say the kind of person who is like super a girl, girl, you know what I'm saying? She worked at NASCAR. She was a producer and a video editor for the Baltimore Ravens. And then she moved up here and we've worked together for four years and she's run the studios up here. And so edited like probably at least two-thirds of the podcast episodes, shot a ton of them here.

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Because what we're really talking about is relationships and how to think about the topic of motherhood and your relationship with your mom or your adult kids in a whole new way. And we're gonna cover it all. The surprises, the struggles, the things I wish I had known sooner, the things I would go back in time and change if I could time travel and snap my fingers and do that.

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And so she is not somebody that I ever see get all that emotional about things. But she's already got tears in her eyes.

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So terrified. What are you terrified about?

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Like a cannonball through your legs is what's going to happen.

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And it's going to be 10 steps ahead of me. It already is, which is amazing. Yep. Because just so you understand as you're listening to us, Jessie also is having some high blood pressure. Mm-hmm. And so the baby is coming probably a month early. Oh, yeah. She's not going to make it 40 weeks. She's not going to make it 40 weeks. And so this could happen any day.

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And if my answer scared Jesse enough, we might just have the water break while we're filming this.

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Live.

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I'm gonna talk about the guilt, the expectations, the pressure to do it all perfectly. And if you're a new mom or you're about to be a new mom, I'm gonna tell you the things that no one else will tell you. And if your kids are already grown like mine, We're going to talk about how to build the strongest relationships with them yet, even when you screwed a lot of things up like I did.

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You've done it three times. So what do you think it means to get motherhood right?

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Okay. Because you're very hard on yourself. So is there a right way to have the baby? Like you're 36 weeks pregnant right now. What would getting it right look like?

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I actually have a totally different point of view about this. Okay. I think now that she is actually able to survive without you, she has a soul and a spirit and a force of her own and she's coming when she's damn ready and she's going to come however she's supposed to come.

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And it is all divinely ordered. And your biggest breakthrough as a parent is going to be to trust. Yes. To trust in her, to trust in Jim, to trust in you to figure it out. Because if you focus on getting it right, you will actually put that anxiety on your child.

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Because she will sense when you feel like you've gotten it wrong and then she's going to start to feel like she's somehow responsible for that. Right. And isn't it interesting that you're sitting here focused on, I got to hit the due date and I got to go naturally and I got to make sure that happens because this has got to be like hitting the bullseye with a dart. It's crazy. Yes.

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You're doing that to yourself. Yeah, 100%. And by the way, the 40 weeks is a guesstimate. That does not mean Sawyer came two weeks late. Oh my God. Seriously. And it doesn't surprise me that of course she did. We had to drag her out of me with a vacuum and with forceps. She's comfy. Yeah. She just was like, I'm not ready. No, I've, I've worked out the details here.

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It was just like, it was honestly, that was the precursor to the experience of writing the let them theory book with her. Because we were just like in tension all the time. I wanted to go this way. I'm not coming this way. And so trust your daughter. Okay. She chose you. Sorry. What's that bring up for you?

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And I want to validate that the feelings that you have of fear because you've lost... to pregnancies, very real. And it's a sign that you're mentally well. Thank you, Dr. Lisa DeMora for giving us that reframe. It's a sign that you're mentally well after two experiences like that to be nervous about how this goes.

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Okay. And you can hold space to be nervous and at the same time trust in your body and in your daughter and in your doctors And in the fact that she is 36 weeks old and she's going to be just fine.

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If you've ever wanted a better understanding of your mom, our conversation today is going to help you see her in a whole new way. And if your mom is still with us, she is going to love to hear this conversation too. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so excited for our conversation today. I love spending time with you. It's always an honor to be together.

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You can trust in that and also be nervous. That's okay. That's how you do this is you hold space for both. And that's exactly what parenting is. Parenting is holding space for your experience and the experience of another human being.

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Parenting is being able to hold space when your child is upset and struggling and be able to comfort them and also stand in the belief that you have the ability as a parent to be a guiding force and they have their own unique experience and are capable of learning from life with you by their side. And

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If you stay in that lane that parenting is about holding space for you and this other human being and trusting in the process of growing and learning together and understanding that your role is guiding and supporting and trusting in their own unique capacity to learn and to grow into who they are, then there's nothing to get right. Nothing.

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What does that mean to you?

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Well, I just think it's like something you deal with every single day and you get to decide if you want to go through life as a mom and put that much pressure on yourself or like, you know, the let them theory could actually be very helpful because right now you can be like, let her come when she's ready. Yes.

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And let me just honor how I feel and let me also remind myself that I trust that everything's going to be okay. Yes, I love that. And so I feel like that's a way to hold space for two things to be true. And, you know, the other thing is, is that you are going to screw things up. Yeah. There would be no therapists if parents did not screw up parenting. So true. Yes. There wouldn't be.

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I mean, you would have therapy for the kind of pain and trauma that human beings inflict on people in other settings. Mm-hmm. But I bet the vast majority of therapists are actually working through the shit that kids experience with parents. And we all do it. I screwed up majorly with my kids because I was not in control of my own anxiety. I was volatile with my stress and my emotions.

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I was a shouter. I had a very short fuse. I took work stress out on them. And so it created in at least my two daughters this sense of being on edge because I was that mom that was wildly fun and then wildly pissed off. And so who are we going to get today? And what do I need to do to make sure my mom's okay? Because I want the one that's happy and fun.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So the other day I was talking with our oldest daughter, Sawyer, who is also the co-author of The Let Them Theory. And she said something to me that was just so cool.

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especially when you're in a moment in your life where you're super busy, oftentimes you think, I don't have time to read, or I don't have time to pick up the book, or I picked up the book and I started reading and then life got busy and I can't remember where I was. You can pick this book up at any time in your life. You could buy it today.

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And based on the date on the calendar, you might be flipping all the way back to literally the last 10 pages of the book And you're exactly where you need to be because it has meditations, October 23rd, October 24th. Here's a meditation I'm flipping forward for May 4th. How cool is that? And these are timeless meditations.

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And what I love about this book is that it is so digestible and it's reassuring and it's encouraging. And just like everything I'm doing here on the podcast, or at least I'm trying to, I'm always reminding you. that the power is inside of you.

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I'm always reminding you of the simple things that are within your control, your attitude, the things you do or don't do, what you focus on, how you process your emotions and create space for what you're feeling, and you are giving yourself grace. And that's what these episodes are about. And the introduction of the book, Mark writes, each of us in our own way is a truth seeker.

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These are books that gave me a new perspective. They found me at times in my life where I needed the exact message and lessons. These are books in very different categories by very different authors that have helped me connect with people I love, that have helped me navigate challenges, that have helped me find peace when I've been really scared and stuck in my life.

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looking for an authentic path that will let the saint in each of us show itself to the world. Along the way, if blessed, we come upon an opening that feels eternal, and suddenly there's nowhere to go. So we build a fire and stare into life, surprised at the tenderness our endurance and presence has led us to. Why is this making me cry? I don't know why this is making me cry.

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I guess it's making me cry because I'm thinking about how my husband not only reads this every day, but He leads a men's retreat called Soul Degree three times a year. And this is one of the books that he gifts to the men that attend the retreat. And there's a part of the retreat where every night they sit around a campfire and there are things that they discuss as they stare into the fire.

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And this book helps you slow down on a daily basis whenever you have a moment to just pick it up and read a page. It helps you stare into that fire of life and you'll be surprised at the tenderness that your endurance and presence can lead you to. He wrote this during an experience where he almost died from cancer in his 30s.

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He writes, almost dying from cancer in my 30s, he had a tumor in his brain and in his back, was the opening through which I stared into eternity and the fire I built was the book of awakening. I had no idea that this fire on the edge of everything would warm so many. It's hard to believe it's been 20 years since it was first published.

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And all that time, I've been humbled by the many ways this book has been embraced. More importantly, the vastness it points to remains an irrepressible resource available to everyone. I think that it makes me emotional because, you know, in 2016, things were really shitty. And Chris was really struggling with depression. And I was out trying to make money however I could to get us out of debt.

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And we were just starting to rebuild our lives and we were at a point where it was like, God, just get out of bed and do what you need to do. And I know so many people feel that way. And when you are in that position in your life, it's easy to beat yourself up and it's easy to convince yourself that your life is never gonna feel different. And I think because Mark wrote this,

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as he was facing a cancer diagnosis that he thought was going to kill him, you can feel in the words that he writes this grappling with where you are versus what's possible. And this book just gave me so much hope and the encouragement that I needed to really... move forward, especially in those moments when things just felt impossible.

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It really provided a lot of guidance and hope for me at a time when I desperately needed it. And even though I'm not in that place anymore in my life, and I've worked extraordinarily hard, and so has Chris, just like you're working incredibly hard.

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It still is relevant every single day that I crack it open and I turn to the day that it is and I read the wisdom on these pages and I'm just grateful for it. I just literally flipped to a page that Chris has highlighted.

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These are the books that have given me the courage to take the chances and to trust that there is something bigger in my life that is meant for me. And so these are the four books that I am going to recommend to you today. And I'm going to explain why and the backstory.

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Too often we struggle stubbornly in an attempt to protect ourselves from the friction of being alive, when it is precisely that friction that works our spirit into a seeable gem. We are more malleable than we think, more durable and changeable than all hope. Thin and fragrant petals do not hide from the wind. They survive to die and break ground again. Even within one life, we shred and reroute.

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We break, bleed, and rearrange into yet another beautiful thing that learns how to reach. Resisting this process doubles our pain. Singing our way through it is the source of wisdom and beauty. The reason why I'm recommending this to you is because having something like this on your bedside table

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that you can wake up to or you can go to bed to so that the first thing that you read in the day, the input that everybody talks about is empowering and hopeful and centers you on your capacity and your capability to rise and to meet whatever it is that you're facing in your life, good or bad. I think that's an incredible resource to give to yourself. And this is why I give it as a gift.

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Because we all need words of encouragement. We all need to be reminded of the power within us. And you can't always be with the people that you love. But when you give somebody a gift of a book like the Book of Awakening, you're giving them almost like a surrogate for you. that can sit on their bedside table so that when they pick it up, they know that they're not alone.

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And they also know and think of you and the fact that you cared enough to give this as a gift to them. You know, I see a lot of you doing that with the Let Them Theory book. I think it's the same thing. That when you share an episode of a podcast like this one that made a big difference in your life with somebody, it's a way of saying, I love you and I care about you.

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And I think this is going to be something you're going to enjoy or get something out of. When you buy somebody else a book and you write an inscription on the inside. you're doing the same thing. You're literally taking something that represents how you feel about a person and you're giving it to them to act as a companion. Mark Nepo, The Book of Awakening. That's number one.

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I just love that we're having this conversation. It's almost like we're in a book club together. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. Even just talking about the book makes you feel like you've already read it, doesn't it? Well, if you love what I've already shared so far, you are going to absolutely love the next three recommendations.

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And what was so exciting about getting ready to talk to you about this is that I realized as I put this together, holy cow, these four books also reinforce exactly why I wrote The Let Them Theory in the first place. So let's do this.

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And we're going to get into that second book when we return after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I'm so thrilled that you're here with me today because today I am sharing four books that have changed my life, the reasons why, why I think they are worth your time and consideration, what you can get out of them, the backstory and some of the authors.

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And that brings me to book number two. We've already covered Mark Nepo's The Book of Awakening. Let's talk about book number two. And that book is The Alchemist by Paolo Coelho. There are so many reasons why I love this book. I recommend this book. I have also given this book as a gift. If you have not read The Alchemist, this is a must read in my opinion. I love this book.

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It is a simple but profound story about a shepherd in Spain by the name of Santiago who has this dream and goes on this spiritual quest in search of treasure. And the entire story has all these beautiful twists and turns and delays and upsets and setbacks and epiphanies, and it takes you on this just amazing journey out there and within.

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And the major, major takeaway from this book is a quote that you may have seen before, you may have heard it, but it is what I do believe to be true about life. And the quote is, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it. Isn't that a beautiful idea?

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That if you can be clear about what you want, and if you are willing, like Santiago, to walk toward it and to believe that it exists and that it is out there for you, If you are willing to journey in that regard, to go after the treasure in your life that you feel calling to you, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.

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Now, one of the interesting lessons of this book that I also love is a lesson that you got to be careful what you ask for because you tend to get it, but you just don't get it in the way that you thought that you would. And I have read this book over and over and over again.

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And there's another quote that I want to read to you from this book that also is deeply important and incredibly difficult to absorb as a truth about life. And here it is. One is loved because one is loved. No reason is needed for loving. What does that mean? It means that your mere existence makes you worthy of love. And so many of us are out there chasing it.

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Before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know that I've got something really special for you at the very end on how you can still reach the goals that you set for yourself at the beginning of this year. And it's all thanks to our friends at Walmart Plus, the membership that makes life easier by saving you time and money with free delivery and so much more.

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What if you could just believe that you are loved because you're loved and no reason is needed for being loved? And the major takeaway from this book, it's really about self-trust and love and learning to listen to your inner compass and this gigantic takeaway that when you find the courage to believe in yourself and to believe in a vision for your life and you have the guts to

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to start walking on the path toward this vision that you have for your life, the universe, the world, people, they do conspire to help you, that things do start to change. And I believe that. I believe that so profoundly. And this book has been an important part of my life for over 20 years. In fact, when I wrote my first book, The Five Second Rule, which is now eight years old,

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I write about the alchemist in the five-second rule. And I want to read to you the reason why this book, not just because of the story of Santiago and the lessons in the book, but there is a backstory to this book that was so resonant for me. And I want to tell you about it because a lot of people don't know this. A lot of people know that the alchemist has sold 65 million copies.

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That's a lot of books. A lot of people know that it was on the bestseller list for over 300 weeks. And even though this thing is over 25 years old, heck, at this point, it might be over 30 years old, it still will pop on the bestsellers list now and again. That's how relevant and incredible of a book this is and how profound of a story it is. I would give this to your adult kids.

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I would read this again if you've read it before. We all need this reminder that you have within you. a deeply personal vision for your life. That is your treasure that you are seeking. And you also have within you the capability to set out on an adventure and a journey to go find that treasure that is buried within your life and buried within you. And it is a journey of trust.

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It is a journey of twists and turns. And the more you walk toward it, a magical thing happens. The world, the universe, God, people, it all aligns to help you. if you're willing to start to see the world that way, which I do. And one of the other things that I think is incredible about this book is most people don't know the backstory.

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And so I want to read to you what I wrote eight years ago in my own book, The Five Second Rule, in a chapter called Courage Changes Everything. And this is on page 217. Have faith. I believe you can make anything happen as long as you listen to your heart, do the work, and give up your timeline. One of my favorite books is the international bestseller, The Alchemist.

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She turned to me casually and was like, you know, mom, you want to know the coolest part about just The Let Them Theory being everywhere and so many people talking about it, making content about it and discussing the book? It's literally the biggest book club in the world right now. that everybody belongs to because everybody's talking about it and saying let them and let me and she's right.

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I will see you after the bloopers, and you're going to love this bonus segment. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so unbelievably excited to talk to you today. I can't wait to share these four book recommendations with you. You're going to be blown away. It's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together.

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It's one of the best-selling books of all time. It has been translated into 80 languages. I've recommended it for more than a decade, and as I was writing this book, I bought myself a new copy to keep me inspired and remind me of the message of the book. The whole universe conspires to help you when you follow your heart.

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Now, when I cracked open the 25th anniversary edition, I was blown away by the story in the forward of the book. I had no idea that when The Alchemist was first published in Brazil, it failed miserably. Miserably. Listen to what Paulo Coelho, the author of The Alchemist, wrote in the foreword of the 25th anniversary of his book.

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When The Alchemist was first published 25 years ago in my native Brazil, no one noticed. A bookseller in the northeast corner of the country told me that only one person purchased a copy the first week of its release. It took another six months for the bookseller to unload a second copy, and that was to the same person who bought the first. And who knows how long it took to sell the third.

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By the end of the year, it was clear to everybody that The Alchemist wasn't working. My original publisher decided to cut me loose and canceled our contract. They wiped their hands of the project and let me take the book with me. I was 41 and desperate. but I never lost faith in the book or ever wavered in my vision. Why? Because it was me in there. All of me, heart and soul.

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I was living my own metaphor. A man sets out on a journey, dreaming of a beautiful or magical place in pursuit of some unknown treasure. At the end of his journey, the man realizes the treasure was within him the entire time. You know, when I read 41 and desperate? Holy cow, I got chills when I read that line in the foreword of The Alchemist.

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That's how old I was when I discovered the five-second rule. And that's exactly how I felt, desperate. And what I've come to realize is that there is no expiration date on discovering and expressing the power in you.

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As Paolo Coelho wrote in The Forward, it starts with a belief in yourself, and that belief is grounded in the courage to push yourself forward, set out on a journey, dreaming of a beautiful or magical place in pursuit of some unknown treasure. And I'm going to remind you exactly what Paolo reminds you of in The Alchemist.

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At the end of this journey, the man realizes the treasure was within him the entire time. but you're never going to find it if you don't push out on the journey. That's what this book has meant to me. But of course, the story didn't end with failure. As I wrote in The Alchemist, when you want something, the whole universe conspires to help you. I started knocking on the doors of other publishers.

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One opened and the publisher on the other side believed in me and my book and agreed to give The Alchemist a second chance. Slowly, through word of mouth, it finally started to sell. 3,000, then 6,000, book by book, gradually throughout that next year. Eight months later, an American visiting Brazil picked up a copy of The Alchemist in a local bookstore.

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He wanted to translate the book and help me find a publisher in the United States. HarperCollins agreed to bring it to an American audience, but it still took time to sell. slowly finding its audience in the United States by word of mouth, just as it had over the years in Brazil. And then one day, the sitting president of the United States was seen with a copy of it.

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The Alchemist became a spontaneous and organic phenomenon. And this book was originally published in Portuguese 37 years ago. Isn't that incredible? And isn't it incredible that it was not a success with the first publisher?

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And I also want to say, if you're a new listener, I wanted to personally take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am thrilled that you're here. And because you hit play on this particular episode, I already know something about you. I know that you're the kind of person who not only cares about your time,

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Isn't it incredible that just like Santiago keeps moving forward, even though there are all these delays and twists and turns and danger, but he believes in the treasure in his heart? that The Alchemist is now celebrating its 37th anniversary. And the book is still very much alive. Like my heart and like my soul, it continues to live every day because my heart and soul are in it.

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And my heart and soul is your heart and soul. And that is the story of this book. The story of one person is the story of everyone's, and one person's quest is the quest of all of humanity. And that is so true. We all have a treasure that is buried deep within us. No one can take it from you, and nobody can prevent you from going and seeking it. Only you can do that to yourself.

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And if you pick up a copy of The Alchemist, I promise you, you are going to just be so inspired by this story. But more importantly, you are going to feel so excited and just hopeful and encouraged about the treasure that exists within you that is uniquely for you that can only be discovered by you. And that is when the journey to go find it will actually begin. The Alchemist. Thank you.

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but you spend your time doing things that help you grow and learn and feel inspired, that like me, you're a reader, you love books, and you're listening to this episode because you really are interested in getting some good recommendations for some new books that you can read. And I also want to point something else out.

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If someone sent you this episode and recommended that you take a listen, you know what that tells me? It tells me that they care about you that they want to feel closer to you. And I think it's a super cool thing that somebody is taking the time to share this with you. And you want to know a great way to feel closer to somebody else is reading a book together, which brings me to today's topic.

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Because today you and I are going to talk about one of the most asked questions that I've been getting lately, which is, Mel, what are your favorite books? Like, what are the books that inspire you? What are the books that you recommend to other people? What are the books that you give to other people as a gift?

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Today, I have four different books that I'm going to recommend to you, and they're not just any book. First of all, they're not even in the same genre, so they're all different. Second, I am recommending them to you for very different reasons, and some of these books, it's not just that they're a great read, it's that there's a really cool backstory about the author and how the book came to be.

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It's not the end of your story. It's just part of the story. I want to share some facts with you about John Grisham because it just shows you over and over and over and over again. You're not stuck where you are. You literally are not stuck where you are. Everything that you are doing in life is leading you somewhere else. Every experience that you have is not a waste of your time.

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It's actually experience that you're gaining that is gonna help you down the road. You are on a journey and this thing called life. And absolutely every twist and turn, every no, every setback is preparing you for something. And so let me tell you a little bit about John Grisham's life before he wrote the firm in 1991.

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So he attended community college because he wanted a baseball career, but then he was benched. And check this out. He failed English class in community college. He then transferred to Delta State University as a walk-on player for baseball, but cut from the team. Why?

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Guess the universe had some other plans for him because how are you going to sell 300 million books if you think you're going to be a baseball player? And it's so important that you actually adopt this mindset that what if this all works out?

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What if all the no's, what if all the heartbreak, what if all the disappointments is actually the world's way of pushing you in the direction you're meant to go? It's incredible. That's how life works. So he leaves Delta State University after one semester. He changed colleges, not once, not twice, three times before completing his degree. Initially, he studied economics.

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In other cases, the books themselves have come into my life at a pivotal moment in my life and changed my life for the way that I think. And I'm gonna even recommend a book to you that has brought me so close to my daughters, and it's the kind of book that I never would have picked up without them making the recommendation. Mom, you gotta read this. And so four books today.

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Then he switched to accounting. He earns a BS, Bachelors of Science, from Mississippi State University in 1977. He was inspired by a Vietnam veteran classmate to pursue law. Now, check this out. When he enrolled in the University of Mississippi School of Law, he intended to be a tax lawyer, but then he shifted to civil litigation.

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He graduated in 1981, 10 years before he wrote this book, and he practiced criminal law for nearly a decade in South Haven, Mississippi. That's the exact kind of law that I practiced for the Legal Aid Society in New York City when I graduated from law school. He was also in the House of Representatives in Mississippi. And his first novel was called A Time to Kill.

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And he was inspired to write that novel because he witnessed the harrowing testimony of a 12-year-old in 1984. And that's what inspired him to start writing A Time to Kill. Now, check this out. Was it an instant success? Nope. He was rejected from 28 publishers before he published A Time to Kill in 1989. He began writing The Firm immediately afterwards. And holy cow, this is unbelievable.

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Here's what John Grisham said in an op-ed piece in The New York Times in 2010. Writing was not a childhood dream of mine. I do not recall longing to write as a student. I wasn't sure how to start. Each year from January through March, I was at the state capitol in Jackson, wasting serious time. But now I realized I was also listening to great storytellers.

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I took a lot of notes, not knowing why, but feeling that someday these tales would come in handy. A Time to Kill didn't sell. I stuck with my day job defending criminals, preparing wills and deeds and contracts. Still, something about writing made me spend large hours of my free time at my desk. I had never worked so hard in my life, nor imagined that writing could be such an effort.

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It was way more difficult than my former jobs of laying asphalt, and at times more frustrating than my former job of selling underwear. But it paid off. Eventually, I was able to leave the law and quit politics. Writing is still the most difficult job I've ever had, but it's worth it.

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So The Firm by John Grisham is my final recommendation, not only because it was such an important book for me in 1991, where I felt lost in my career, and it opened my eyes to a whole different possibility. And what's interesting is I didn't think, oh, I could write a book. I just thought, oh, I don't have to practice law.

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And just like John Grisham, when I was little, even though I was a voracious reader, I never thought maybe I'll write a book one day. And so I also love this book because I love his backstory. And his backstory, step by step, point by point, proves something that I believe is true, that I fundamentally share with you in any way that I can, which is what we've been talking about today.

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Your life is preparing you for something extraordinary that hasn't happened yet. And learning how to wake up every day and focus on the power that's inside of you, buoy yourself up by encouraging yourself and embrace the fact that there is a treasure inside of you. There is something uniquely that is yours, that is meant for you, that is contained within you, within this life that you have.

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And before we jump into my four books, I wanna tell you a little story about me that might not know. Books have been a huge part of my life forever. I was in this program in my public elementary school that was called Great Books. And it was this program that was like a book club for elementary school students. And the discussions about the books were led by slightly older middle school students.

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And I do believe that the universe is nudging you along all the time. And you may be listening right now at a moment in your life where you feel completely stalled out, where you feel like you've just faced nothing but rejection. I promise you, if you hold on to the faith that all of this is preparing you for something extraordinary, it just hasn't happened yet.

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If you can reframe all of the painful things, the heartaches, the rejection... into lessons that are trying to teach you something, if you can take every experience that doesn't seem like it adds up, I promise you, I promise you, one of these days off in the future, you are going to wake up and you're going to look back on this moment in your life and you're going to say, oh,

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I can see exactly why that happened. I can see exactly what I learned from it. And I can also see that this entire time, the universe was nudging me and trying to push me in the right direction all along. And your job and my job in life is simply to wake up and be present and recognize it when it's happening.

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And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. The reason why I say I love you is because love is a very simple thing. Love is literally just admiring something in someone and having them in mind. And if I go to the books that I recommended in The Alchemist, one is loved because one is loved. No reason is needed for loving.

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And see, I admire the fact that you're the kind of person that makes the time to listen to something that makes your life better. I admire that in you. So that's why I say I love you. Because I admire that in you and I have you in mine.

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And I also tell you that you can create a better life because there is no doubt in my mind that you have the capacity and the capability and the treasure inside yourself to do so. And it is my hope that these four books and the let them theory are going to help you achieve it.

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Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days because I'll be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. I shouldn't have signed books till 2.30 in the morning, 12.30 in the morning. What is going on with my fucking dry mouth today? I do need, we do need food. Holy cow. I got chills. Why is this making me cry? I don't know why this is making me cry.

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How cool is that? Great. Okay. Let me say one more thing. Can you hear me, hon? Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Okay, great. Got you. I'm going to take this off because I'm starting to sweat. And I'm glad that you're a part of us. So I'm Mel Robbins. I'm glad you're a part of us. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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And I not only loved Great Books, but I became a leader in Great Books when I was in middle school and high school. And so books have been a huge part of my life. I mean, books are just so magical because as you're sitting there reading or listening, and let's just set the record straight, listening to a book counts, okay? I know there's a lot of debate. Oh, well, I'm not really reading a book.

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Stitcher. This bonus segment is sponsored by Walmart+. If you're ready for a fresh start this spring, how about making life a little better? Whether you're focused on spending more time with family, tightening your budget, or making healthier choices, Walmart Plus is here to help you. It's a paid membership program with tons of benefits. And it's super easy to sign up at plus.walmart.com.

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You get free delivery when you spend at least $35, gas savings, free shipping with no order minimum, and video streaming at no additional cost. It's all designed to save you time and money. Remember a couple months ago? It was New Year's. You know, you were all excited to set your goals, all these resolutions and things that you wanted to do, and then boom, stress got in the way.

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Or maybe you've been waiting for the perfect time to just get started. And waiting. And waiting. Or perhaps you have a dream and you have had this dream for as long as you can remember, tucked in the back of your mind. You're probably beating yourself up about it.

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Stop beating yourself up because you couldn't stick to the things that you wanted to do or you haven't started on that book you wanted to write or whatever it was. That's not going to help you. Dialing back into those dreams that you have for yourself or those goals that you have for this year, it doesn't have to be overwhelming. You just need to do three simple things.

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Reframe, refocus, and reprioritize. Step one, reframe. How are you going to think about your goals? Because it's so easy to get stuck in this sort of all or nothing mindset. Oh, I already messed up, so what's the point? You're not going to do that anymore. We're going to reframe. And here it is. Every small action matters. Did you skip your workout? Who cares? Go for a five-minute walk.

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In fact, Harvard researcher Teresa Amabile has written all about this thing called the progress principle, and I live by this. Taking even the tiniest steps forward towards something meaningful for you is one of the most powerful ways for you to stay engaged, motivated, and happy in your life period. You don't have to complete it. You just need to make progress.

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Thinking about it or journaling about it or holding space for it in the back of your mind counts. you don't lose any of the ground that you've already gained. So let's just reframe it. Step number two, refocus. So once we've shifted your mindset, now it's time to refocus on why does this change or this goal or this dream matter to you? Not why do you think it should matter?

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Because you're not going to do anything about something you think you should do. Why do you want this change? When your reason why is strong, refocusing and following through becomes easier to do. And research by Nick Stwaner at University of California shows that when you tie your goals to your values, you actually enjoy the process and the progress a whole lot more.

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Doesn't being pulled towards something sound better than having to drag yourself to it? Of course it does. And that brings you and me to step number three, and that's reprioritize. Instead of feeling paralyzed by all the things that you're trying to change, here's what I want you to do. Pick just one thing. So you may have started the year with all kinds of things that you wanted to change.

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That's nice and all, but you're just one person. What one goal has the strongest pull right now? and just make that your focus. When you try to chase multiple goals at once, they just compete with one another. And then you feel like a failure because you can't do any of them. When you focus on one thing, you will start. And once you start, momentum can take over.

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And the next thing you know, you're going to be making progress and you're going to be feeling back in control again. I want to give a huge thank you to Walmart Plus for making this bonus segment possible. Thank you to you for being here and listening all the way to this point, because creating a better life doesn't happen overnight. It's about the small things that add up.

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That is not true. There's actually research around what part of your brain that you're using when you read and when you listen. It all counts. But what I love about a great book, don't you, is that you can get lost in a different world. It opens up your perspective. It makes you think differently. It helps you do something that can be very meditative and calming. And so I just love reading.

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And that's exactly what's so great about Walmart Plus. If it's right into your everyday routine, saving you time and money with free delivery, free shipping, gas savings, video streaming, and so much more, Walmart Plus can make the rest of your life easier as it should be. Start a free 30-day trial at plus.walmart.com. See Walmart Plus Terms and Conditions. $35 order minimum.

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Paramount Plus Essential Plan only. Separate registration required.

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And one final thing before I jump into the four books that I'm going to recommend is I have to take a minute and I have to just say thank you. I cannot believe... how much you're loving the Let Them Theory. I mean, I'm just so blown away by it. My daughter, who I wrote this with, Sawyer Robbins, shout out Sawyer Robbins, and I, we are so humbled.

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And seeing all of you reading this with your friends, with your families, in your book clubs, recommending it to friends, talking about it online, like it is so cool. People keep asking me, what does it feel like, Mel, to have the number one book in the world? And I'll tell you what it feels like. I just think it's so cool that everybody is excited about a book that can help you change your life.

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In fact, three million of you have already read, listened to, recommended, gifted, reviewed, discussed, like checked out of your library, the let them theory. And what's so exciting is that you're not only reading it and listening to it, but you're reading it with people you love. You're sharing it. You're talking about it. You're learning from it. You're making videos about it.

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I think it's cool, heck, that in a moment in history where people are spending on average six hours a day on social media, that they're excited about reading again. And to me, that is the coolest thing here, that a book is what everybody's talking about.

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A book and a theory that helps you change your life and a theory that's bringing you closer to people and making you feel peaceful and more powerful is what is in the zeitgeist and trending. And what a wonderful thing. that we're excited about reading again.

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And so many of you, because of your enthusiasm for the Let Them Theory and how much it's changing your life and your relationships, have written in or like, Mel, what are you reading? What are your favorite books? Like, what should I read next? And so I thought, you know, why don't we just do an episode about some of the books that have changed my life?

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And these are books that have changed my life for very different reasons. They're in very different genres. They're not all kind of like personal development or mindset or relationship books at all. They're not even that serious for crying out loud, but I think you're going to love them. These are the books that I give as gifts. These are the books that I've read over and over again.

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These are books that have come into my life at moments in time where I've really needed the message that's in the book. These are also books where in some cases, the backstory on the author, is so extraordinarily inspiring that just that story alone is something that you're going to be really interested to hear today. And so I've thought a lot about what books have changed my life.

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I have come up with four books that are completely different from one another that have made a deeply personal and deeply impactful difference in my life. And I cannot wait to share these with you. And before I do, though, I really just want to take a moment and say thank you, for real.

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I sat above the garage with my daughter for a year, basically in a cage fight as we were working on the Let Them Theory together. And this is the first time on my podcast that I've talked to you in any detail about the Let Them Theory and what's happened in the wake of publishing this book. This book is a phenomenon.

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I mean, it's on track to become one of the most successful nonfiction books of the entire year. Three million copies sold in two and a half months? That doesn't happen. I don't even know what to say. I am so excited that this concept is helping. And the reason why this is selling and so many of you are interested in it is because it works. I mean, you don't recommend a book that you don't love.

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You don't buy a book for other people that hasn't made a difference in your life. And that's the phenomenon of this book, that it's actually making a huge difference.

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And to know that what my daughter and I, with the help of our team and the help of publisher at Hay House and Penguin Random House and our partners at Audible and everybody that worked on this and the 94 books, did you know that there are 94 books? that are cited and that were part of the research of me making a case for the let them theory and how to use it in eight different areas of your life.

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I mean, that's how much I love reading. That's how much I love books. I have been a bookworm since I was a little kid. Never in my life did I imagine being an author. So to know that I'm now an author and I'm not only writing books, but the stuff that I'm working on, I can do with my daughter and it's just like the coolest thing ever.

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So thank you for giving me one of the most remarkable experiences of my life to see the lessons and mistakes and the things that I write about that are deeply personal in this book make a huge difference in your life. And the reason why I know that it is goes way beyond... the posts on social media. I want to read some very meaningful things that you've written to us.

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You're making jewelry about it. You're making t-shirts about it. You're making it your own. And that got me thinking. I don't want this book club that we're all in discussing this theory to end. And I don't think you do either because so many of you have written in saying, I just love this so much. Mel, I'm curious, what are some of your favorite books?

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There's two people in particular that I'm going to share today because I think the most exciting thing about this is how it's impacting your relationship with people you care about. And the number of ways that you are using this in your life. We are receiving hundreds of emails every single week.

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I am blown away by the avalanche of comments of how Let Them and Let Me is changing your life, and more importantly, in my mind. Yes, it gives you instant peace. It gives you instant power. But what I love even more is seeing how it's bringing you closer to people. I want to read you something that Erin wrote in to me.

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Aaron wrote in and said, I bought two copies of The Let Them Theory, one for my mother and one for me. And we both waited to read our book on vacation. And every night, once we settled in, we'd grab our book and start to read. And we kept stopping to discuss the different chapters that both of us could relate to. And we could relate to all the stories that Mel and her daughter Sawyer mentioned.

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And, you know, here's the thing. If you haven't read the book, I'm the villain in the book. This book is filled with stories from my life and from my daughter's life. And in almost every one, I'm the jerk. I'm the one that's the control freak. I'm the one that's judgy. I'm the one that's insecure. I'm the one that's jealous.

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And what you're going to see in this book and what you probably are seeing, and I think one of the reasons why this is resonating so much is as you read the book, you have these realizations where you're like, oh God, I'm just like Mel was. Oh my God, I do the same thing that she does. Or you have the other realization, which is, oh my God, I have to deal with somebody who was just like Mel.

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What a nightmare. Now I know how to let them. And now I know how to say, let me, let me protect my time and energy. Let me show up differently. So the dynamic shifts between us. And another thing that I'm really proud of is that my daughter and I argued day and night about what stories went in.

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I'd literally be like, well, why don't we talk about this time when dad and I were, and she'd be like, nobody my age cares about that. Why did we argue so much? Because we wanted absolutely every story and every book that was cited and every piece of research to be relevant to your life.

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Because if it's not relevant to your life, then it's just some intellectual nonsense that's a waste of our time. And so we just fought night and day. We did 11 and a half versions of the manuscript. We had teams of people that would sit around and read it with us and dig into the research.

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I discussed the concepts with experts on 19 different podcast episodes before they even made it into the book. I mean, the amount of research and refining and just trying to craft the single best book that we could for one reason, so that it would be entertaining and relevant and impactful to you.

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And so to see it embraced on such a global scale, and more importantly, to see it making a difference in your life, because as Aaron writes, I love Let Them, but what helped open my eyes and my mom's eyes was the let me part of the book. Let me do what I need to do for myself and let me learn how to accept and love the people in my life for who they are instead of trying to change them.

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Like, what would you recommend that I read after I read The Lethem Theory? What are the books that have changed your life, Mel? Well, today I'm answering that question. I have thought long and hard about this because I'm a voracious reader. I've been a bookworm since I was a little girl. But today, I have got the four books that have changed my life and they're gonna change yours.

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Really an eye-opener and life-changing book. Our vacation lasted four days and three nights and the book was finished by the time our trip ended. How freaking cool. That's the other thing that I love about the book. It is such an easy read because it's entertaining because you literally will have so many cringe moments as you're reading the book like, oh my God, Mel, seriously?

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Like you, oh my God, I can't believe you're admitting you feel that way. And honestly, I've done the same thing. And that's the power of this is to see yourself in the pages. And if you can think of any book that you love You love it because it brings you either to a completely different world or it awakens something within you. And that's what's so cool.

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And so with that, let's get into the four books that I want to recommend to you and the reasons why. Because since the Let Them Theory is spread around the world, you are now asking me, I love this book, Mel. What are you reading? What do you recommend? What do you give to people? And so let's jump into the four books that I love.

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And the first one that I'm going to recommend to you is The Book of Awakening. It is the 20th anniversary edition that I am holding in my hands. It is written by the extraordinary Mark Nepo. And there are so many reasons why I want to recommend this to you. And I think the first thing that I want to say is that this is the book that I give as a gift more than any other book.

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And I think that's an important thing to say to you, that when I'm thinking about a book that I want to give to somebody or I'm going to a dinner party and I want to bring something other than a bottle of wine, I bring a copy of The Book of Awakening. This book is so meaningful to me. I'm struggling to even find the words to explain the profound difference this book has made.

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First of all, I've been reading this since 2016, and one of the things that I love about it is it's just short daily meditations that are one to two pages long. And it is broken out by the day of the year. So you literally open up the book, and it's like, oh, July 21st. And here's what I love about that.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. This year, we had 43 amazing experts that appeared on the Mel Robbins Podcast, and some of them were so incredible, they actually appeared a couple times. And I started to wonder... Who were the favorites for you and your fellow listeners around the world? I mean, I'm talking the best of the best. So I decided to figure it out.

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Now, you loved her. I love her. I feel like she's one of those people that you just want to listen to because you feel like she really gets it. Now, she's been on the show twice this past year. I am definitely going to have her back in 2025 because I can't get enough. And let me share some of her background with you.

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Dr. Aditi is a Harvard-trained medical doctor and a renowned authority in stress management and public health. She's a lecturer at Harvard Medical School, and previously, she was the director of an integrative medicine program at Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital that specialized in evidence-based stress management techniques and was one of the largest stress management clinics in the world.

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Now, every time you listen to Dr. Aditi, you're going to feel like you got both a warm hug and a brain upgrade. Now, on her first appearance this year, she brought the goods. I mean, I'm talking groundbreaking research, simple exercises you could use, mind-blowing realizations that made you really rethink. how you handle stress.

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And in this next clip that you're about to hear, she tees up and destroys one of the biggest myths around how you should live your life and be successful right out of the gate. So let's take a listen.

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This is the perfect episode for you to listen to as your very first episode because you're going to get a sampling of the kind of experts that we talk to on this podcast every single week. And you're going to love it. And the fact is I get hundreds of messages and emails and comments from you about episodes that hit home all year long.

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I want to make sure that you heard the last line that she said, because this is super important. I mean, I'm guilty of scrolling. You're guilty of scrolling when you just want to zone out. But what Dr. Aditi just said is that when you and I are scrolling, you're actively influencing your brain and body for more stress, which means by scrolling, you're creating more stress for yourself.

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It's like you're priming your brain and your body to feel more stress. And when she said that, I know you had the same reaction, which is why would I want to create more stress for myself? And the reason why this is important is because if you understand the implications of picking up your phone, because we mindlessly do it, maybe you're going to feel more motivated to not do it.

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And so I asked Dr. Aditi, okay, if mindlessly scrolling on your phone creates more stress and it's priming my body and brain to feel more stressed, what the heck should I be doing instead of scrolling? And I want you to take a listen very closely because Dr. Aditi is about to walk you through an extraordinarily simple technique that she created.

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And she's gonna explain how she created it as a very stressed out medical school resident. But this is the exact same technique she prescribes When she is working with patients in her clinical practice, and again, this is one of the most renowned and respected doctors in stress on the planet. And this is the method she's using with her patients.

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The ones that made you stop in your tracks, the ones that made you replay a clip over and over, the ones that you kept sending to someone that you love. And so first of all, It was so fun to just dig in and crunch the data and compile this episode. In fact, if you're watching on YouTube, I'm going to hold up this piece of paper. I'm going to describe it to you. My team assembled.

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Amazing. Stop, breathe, be. I mean, what could be more simple? But it really is powerful. And I'm going to tell you, ever since Dr. Aditi taught you and me that, I've been using it. And you can use it anytime you want. You just feel yourself start spiraling. You feel the stress kick in. You feel yourself getting nervous. I always just put my hand on my heart.

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It's almost like I signal myself, okay, we're going to do this. And I stop. I take a breath in. And I just be there in the moment. Now, I have used this when I'm driving the car. I've used this before I grab my wallet to pay for something if I feel myself getting nervous about something.

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I use it as I grab the handle of the fridge because oftentimes I'm like going to the fridge because I'm kind of stressed out. Stop, breathe, be. You can be at your laptop. You can have just finished a video conference call or a Zoom meeting and it was a little stressful and now you're like, oh my God. So before you close the laptop, just stop, breathe, be. You can do it anywhere.

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And what I love about this technique from Dr. Aditi, and I said this earlier, this is the exact same technique. that she is giving and teaching to her patients. She prescribes this as a Harvard medical doctor running one of the largest stress management clinics in the world.

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You know when you're in high school and they did the end of the year superlatives where it's like the best this and the best that, the best the other thing, or the worst this? I won teacher's pet, by the way. That was my superlative, which means I guess I'm a suck-up. Well, we actually, my team gathered this amazing collage of all of the experts that are featured today.

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And it works because it creates a micro moment of peace in your life, a moment where you can take control, where you can hit that reset. And since we're talking about taking breaks, this feels like the perfect time to hit the pause button and give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words with you.

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But don't go anywhere because after we take this short break, I'm going to be waiting for you. And we have the single most popular topic of the entire year and about seven more amazing experts waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins.

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I'm so glad you're here with me because we are covering your favorite moments from the podcast of the entire year. Now, if you had asked me, Mel, what do you think the most popular topic of the year is going to be of the entire Mel Robbins podcast? I probably would have said something like, I don't know, motivation, relationships. I would not have thought it was menopause, and here's why.

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The listeners of the Mel Robbins podcast are all ages, all over the world. And so I wouldn't have thought that it would have been a topic that impacts women of a certain age. But the fact is you have a mom, you have older sisters, you have people in your life that are going through this. Maybe it's your wife.

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And so this became our most popular episode, not only because the topic is relevant to people in your life, but because the expert was absolutely extraordinary. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about the one and only Dr. Mary Claire Haver. Now, Dr. Haver is a board-certified OB-GYN and a menopause expert. She's also a two-time New York Times bestselling author.

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She specializes in women's health and is a certified menopause practitioner. She's also the bestselling author of the brand new book, The New Menopause, which is packed with all these accessible insights into navigating this journey. Every single day, 6,000 women in the United States alone enter menopause. And menopause for a lot of us is a phase that you dread.

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And Dr. Haver, she helps you move from dreading it to feeling empowered. And let me tell you something. After this conversation, I'm sure either you or the people that you forwarded this to felt the exact same thing. Holy cow, why didn't anybody ever tell me this? I found the off switch for my hot flashes. I unlocked the door to better sleep. I started feeling like I loved my body again. Why?

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Because of all the things that Dr. Haver explained in plain English. She's saying, no, no, no, no, this is not a time where you're put out to pasture. This is a time where you got to kick it up into high gear because you can thrive. Her groundbreaking approach insists that no one should be suffering through this phase of your life because you're going to spend a third of your life in menopause.

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This episode sparked not just a movement for women navigating menopause, but also for people who love and support them. There were so many important moments in this conversation that this would be a very good one to listen to the whole thing if you hadn't heard it, and certainly send the link to everybody that you love that is approaching menopause or in menopause.

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But I selected this moment because it's the most comprehensive tactical advice, which is what we all want to hear, right? And what you're going to hear Dr. Haver cover is she's gonna cover the top three things that she recommends to her patients that they need to be eating. She's gonna talk to you about the specific type of exercise that you need to be doing if you're in menopause.

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So I kind of feel like it's the Mel Robbins yearbook that we're going to be covering today. And we've spent hours reviewing these standout moments. We've looked at YouTube, these moments that you just would pause, go back, rewatch. We've looked at the episodes that you shared, that you commented on, that you wrote in about. We noticed which experts you were like, could you have them come back?

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She's gonna give you tips about getting a better night's sleep. And she's got a very, very important warning about your phone and about alcohol, which is something you need to hear. And she's gonna kick all of this information off by talking about the three things she recommends that every woman in menopause needs to be eating. Check this out.

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Magnesium L3N8. Okay, so you're saying fiber's number one, magnesium is number two. How do you get magnesium naturally?

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And here's what I want to say. You and I, we are in for such a treat. And I'm excited because I know what you're about to hear. And even just compiling this, I was reminded of the experts that really changed a lot about our approach to relationships. There were episodes that helped you conquer your fears, stories that made you laugh. cry, or just feel like you're not alone.

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I can actually see that. I did not. I would take a step aerobics class with you.

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And if you're having a hard time sleeping,

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I was just talking to a friend this morning. She's like, oh, well, I just stick my leg out and the fan hits it. And that's how I cool myself down. Yeah.

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And so today we have compiled it all for you and we're diving into the greatest moments, the moments that left the biggest impression on this extraordinary global community. And whether you've been riding with me since the beginning of this podcast two years ago, or you are tuning in for the first time, Oh my gosh, did you pick a winner?

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And that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the amount of information that Dr. Haver shared with all of us. And so I really encourage you to check that one out. And one of the things that she mentioned is brain fog. And that brings me to our next all-star from this past year. And I'm talking about none other than Dr. Wendy Suzuki. Now, Dr. Suzuki is a world-renowned neuroscientist.

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And it was crazy. She brought a real... human brain to our studios in Boston. It was an unbelievable experience to have her in the studio and to hold a brain and to see a brain. I mean, it weighs more than you think, and it makes you think very differently about your brain.

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Now, Dr. Suzuki is the Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at New York University, and she's done all of this groundbreaking research in areas of memory and brain plasticity. And you love that episode. because it covered the simple things that you can do every single day to improve your learning, your focus, memory, and your brain power.

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And what was so cool about her, and probably one of the reasons why you loved her so much, it certainly is why I loved her so much, is that she made neuroscience not only easy to understand, but she put so much heart into it. She just loves the brain, but she somehow makes this very nerdy and intellectual topic human.

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And of course, she has specific advice about things that you can do every day to support your brain health. And you can check them all out if you listen to the episode, which is linked in the show notes. But the one moment that you really loved was one that related to her father. Dr. Suzuki told this just absolutely moving story about the fact that her father was starting to suffer from dementia.

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And because she's a neuroscientist, she actually was recognizing all the signs. And every single time she saw him, there was something that she really wanted to do that she had never done. What was it? She wanted to tell her father that she loved him before it was too late.

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And so she told this beautiful story about the very first time that she told her father that she loved him and helped him create a new memory, even though he was now struggling with dementia, but how this one thing changed her entire family dynamic as well. And I'm going to warn you, you're probably going to want to get out the tissues because I'm going to let Dr. Wendy Suzuki tell you the story.

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Because you're about to hear the moments that you said made the biggest impact in your life and in the lives of the people that you love. And one more thing I want to say before we jump in, because we got a lot to cover today, you and I, is that like every single episode that we do,

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If you look at the notes of the episode, you're going to find links to every single one of the podcasts that we are discussing today. So you're not going to miss a thing. And in fact, if you're brand new, this is like a playlist that is the best of the best. So it's the perfect place for you to start. And you can find all those links in the show notes. Alrighty.

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Oh my gosh. You know, especially for those of you that have somebody in your life that you love that is struggling with memory issues or dementia or Alzheimer. I mean, what an unbelievably moving story. I am so proud of Dr. Suzuki and I'm so grateful that she shared that story with us, right? Because it's a beautiful reminder of something that Dr. Suzuki had said earlier.

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What episodes did you share the most? What did you comment on? What specific moments did you watch over and over again on YouTube? Well, I've crunched the data. I've reviewed hundreds. hundreds of hours of our podcast from this year. And today I'm so thrilled because I have the best of the best of the best from this past year on the Mel Robbins podcast. We've got takeaways.

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And that is that the brain is a mind-blowingly complex, ridiculously brilliant, and let's be real, magical thing. And what you learn with Dr. Suzuki is that you can change it. So if you're listening to this right now and you're feeling stuck in a family dynamic that's driving you nuts or you wish you were the kind of family that said, I love you, you need to hear this. You can change this.

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It only takes one person to start shifting things. And that one person could be you. Now, we have four more extraordinary experts that made the all-star list. And the person that you're about to meet next is somebody that is revolutionizing the way that we're treating mental health issues. His name is Dr. Chris Palmer. I waited to get him on the Mel Robbins podcast for months.

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So I wanted to start with one of the most viral clips of the entire year. What does that mean? It means this is one of the moments from the podcast this year that you shared more than any other moment. And the jury has decided, case is closed. You loved Dr. Tara Swart. She is an incredible MD, PhD, and neuroscientist.

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Because I knew he would make you look at the way you need to think about mental health in an entirely new way. And his research and what he's been doing at McLean Hospital, which is Harvard's hospital dedicated to mental health where he's been practicing for 30 years, is shaking up the mental health community around the globe.

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And he has this incredible down-to-earth way to explain this unbelievable research. And you shared this over and over. You rewatched this episode on YouTube over and over. And you wrote to us about how the simple things that Dr. Palmer shared with you have actually helped people that you love who are struggling with depression, schizophrenia, all kinds of mental health issues.

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Now, he has so much to share with you. We actually did two episodes with him that here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna hit the pause button. so that we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words with you. I also want to give you a chance to share this best of episode with people that you love.

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And when we come back, you're going to meet Dr. Palmer, and you're going to learn more about his brain energy theory. And he's going to teach you simple interventions that have a significant positive impact on issues like anxiety, depression, and so much more. You do not want to miss this. You cannot afford to miss this. And Dr. Palmer is not the only one. We got three more experts after him.

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So don't go anywhere. There is so much more to cover. And I'm going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Now we have four more extraordinary experts. And the first up is Dr. Chris Palmer. Dr. Chris Palmer is a gift to the world. He's a professor at Harvard Medical School. He spent almost the last 30 years at the number one psychiatric hospital in the United States.

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And that is Harvard's teaching hospital, McLean Hospital. It's right here in Boston, near our studios here in downtown Boston. Based on Dr. Palmer's extensive clinical experience, He's on a mission to change the way that mental health is understood, discussed, and treated.

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Dr. Palmer has created something called the brain energy theory, and he's revolutionizing the way that medical professionals think about mental illness, what it is, what causes it, and more importantly, how to treat it. If you haven't heard the entire episode, I encourage you to check this episode out and share it with anybody in your life who is struggling with mental health issues.

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Dr. Palmer's waitlist is three years long to be able to get in to see him, and this is like having a private appointment. In short, Dr. Palmer says that mental health issues like anxiety and depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, they happen when your brain's energy system, which is your metabolism, isn't working right.

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Just like your heart can have problems if you eat badly, your brain can have issues too. I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it? Of course it does. And the good news? Dr. Palmer says that you can use modifications to your diet, to your exercise routine, to your lifestyle, to significantly improve your mental health. What does that mean?

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Well, it means the exact same things that help your heart and other organs in your body help you fix the problems in your brain too, which will help you improve your brain's energy and improve your overall mental health.

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She's a professor at MIT, and she flew all the way from London to be in our Boston studios to be with you. You loved everything. absolutely everything that she shared in this episode about how to apply neuroscience and the scientific findings in her research around the brain functioning to your life. But holy cow, did you love everything that she shared about stress.

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And that brings me to one of your most favorite moments of the entire year, the one that you shared more than just about anything else with friends and family that you watched over and over on YouTube, and that is Dr. Palmer's specific protocol. for treating someone who is dealing with any kind of mental health issue or any mental illness. I find his theory fascinating and his work revolutionary.

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And so during our conversation, I asked him, Dr. Palmer, I realize you're not treating me or anybody that's listening, but is it possible for you to just give us a broad stroke recommendation that any single person could follow for 21 days if they're struggling with mental health issues or a mental illness. And this is what he had to say.

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And she shared so much with us that I'm going to break this down step by step so you really get it. I mean, this was a moment that went so viral that when you watch the podcast on YouTube, you would literally stop and go backward and play it over and over. And you shared this episode over and over. And so the first thing that you're gonna hear is something I had never heard before.

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Two to five years of a—but what is it? Because you guys say keto this, keto that, ketoketosis, or whatever the hell the words are. What is the keto—like, what am I eating? Walk me through a day of being on the keto diet.

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Okay, so this is very inclusive, everybody. But let's just say you and I are going to breakfast, lunch, and dinner today. What are we ordering?

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Sounds like Sunday brunch, Dr. Palmer.

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Okay.

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So how long would you suggest that somebody, if they're going to start with the ketogenic diet, how long should you try it? And what would you look out for, Dr. Palmer, to know that it's actually impacting you in a positive way?

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And that is the impact that stress has, get this, on your belly fat. And so what you're about to hear is you're about to hear Dr. Tara talk about stress and the evolutionary background of the function of stress. And then we're gonna get into this shocking finding that the more stressed out you are, the more that your body creates belly fat.

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So let's just say you get the keto flu. We're now on the other side of the keto flu. We're starting to perk up. What are you going to feel? And how do you know if it's working?

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Okay, great. So eating healthy, what's the next step in your brain energy protocol?

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Is that all I have to do? Like if I'm doing zero, are you talking one day of resistance training is enough? Or would you want to see me out three days?

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How much do I need?

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I just love him. I absolutely love him. And I know that anybody in your life that's struggling is going to love him too, because you can just tell he's so earnest. He's on this mission and he believes in your ability to heal. He believes in your brain's ability to get better. And after sitting down with him for two episodes, I 1000% believe in his brain energy theory.

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And I also love how he breaks things down in a way that makes it doable. Didn't you love it when he said if you're doing zero exercise, just walking around the block counts? Yes, that's a win. And don't forget his advice on sleep. If getting out of bed feels like torture, it's time to get your butt to bed earlier. Don't you love a doctor's like get your butt to bed? I love that.

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Plus cutting out alcohol and other substances for three months just to give your brain and your mental wellness a fighting chance. Of course, that's advice you need to hear and I need to hear and the people that you love need to hear. And what I love about these episodes, honestly, and these conversations is that you and I can tell the people that we love this stuff till we're blue in the face.

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But when they hear it from the world's leading medical doctor at Harvard, perhaps they'll actually do it. Because it's only in the doing it that it's going to make a difference. And that brings me to another of our remarkable all-stars from this past year. And that is Sarah Jakes Roberts. She's a pastor, a philanthropist, an international bestselling author.

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Her latest book was an instant New York Times bestseller. She's like, I don't know, she's like a messenger for your soul. And I have not stopped thinking about the time that I've spent with her. Her words just rang over and over and over again in your mind, in my mind.

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And what Sarah is about to say is something that will shift the way that you or that someone that you love thinks about who you are. about your past, about what's possible. She's talking about embracing every single part of who you are, the wins, the mistakes, the moments that you wish you could erase, learning to love yourself because of them, not in spite of them.

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Because if you've ever felt trapped by a single moment in your life, if you've ever felt like you've been labeled or cast aside or you've beaten yourself up for a mistake that you've made, this moment is for you. Because Sarah is going to show you how to stop punishing yourself and instead step boldly into the fullness of who you are.

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And you better believe me, this is the kind of message that stays with you for a lifetime.

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Every single one of us has stuff that we've done in the past, things that we have done to ourselves or other people, mistakes that we think that we've made. How do you begin the process of sitting with yourself? How do you learn how to forgive yourself?

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You know, I really want to highlight a particular sentence that she said that I think is one of the most important sentences that I heard the entire year. you cannot heal while you're still punishing yourself. I mean, is that not just one of the most profound truths you've ever heard? And how often do you sit with yourself, just replaying the same harsh, critical thoughts?

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You know, you think you're just reflecting, but the reality is you're just repeating the pain over and over and over again. And what Sarah is reminding you of is that true healing, it doesn't come from self-punishment. It comes from self-acceptance, from self-compassion, learning how to sit with yourself as uncomfortable as it may be. I mean, it not only takes courage, but it's an act of love.

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Choosing to say, yes, I've made some mistakes. Yes, I have flaws, but I'm going to sit here and I'm going to love myself anyway. And here's the real magic. When you embrace who you are, imperfections and all, and you stop seeking validation from other people, you'll realize you don't need the validation because you've actually learned how to give it to yourself.

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I mean, that's the gift that Sarah Jakes just gave you. It's not just healing, it's freedom. And so take a moment today to sit with yourself. And if you were inspired by that, get down to the notes And spend an hour with me and Sarah Jakes Roberts because she will lift you up and you deserve that.

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And if there's someone in your life that is really just beating themselves up and they can't see the gifts that they have to offer, then share that episode with them too because Sarah was just getting started with that clip. There's a lot more that she had to say. So take a listen.

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Oh my God. I just love her so much. I love how she looks at life. I love how she looks at herself and just the journey that we're all on. I mean, such a powerful reminder, right? You're not defined by a single moment or a single mistake or your achievements. And you do that, don't you?

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You think if you can just keep your failures front and center, you can protect yourself and you won't let it happen again. But the truth is, by doing that, you trap yourself in that moment. What Sarah gave you is a gift. She gave you the freedom to say, but also. Yeah, you've made mistakes, but also you're growing. Yeah, you've been through tough times, but also you're stepping into your power.

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You're not just one chapter of your life, you're the whole book. And that's what makes this so beautiful. It's permission to embrace all of who you are, the wins, the losses, the messiness, the magic, because you are so much more than that one moment. And the year we've spent together on the Mel Robbins podcast, learning from all these experts was more than one moment too.

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But that brings me to the last two experts and moments on the podcast that you picked. And you want to know what they're about? They're about regrets. And I think you loved them because they were really poignant. And that's what made them among the highest ranking episodes. It's what made them the things that you kept sharing with people that you loved, that you wrote in about.

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You even talked about these in the reviews that you left. I mean, it was overwhelming how moved you were by what these two experts had to say to you about what's actually important in life and what's not. They gave you perspective in an instant. And the first one comes from the extraordinary Dr. Robert Waldinger.

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Now, when he came onto the show, I have to say that it may be one of the most important conversations that you could listen to because everything that he shared is so incredibly true. Dr. Waldinger is a psychiatrist, he's a Zen Buddhist, he is also a professor at Harvard Medical School, and he happens to be the director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development.

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Now, the Harvard Study of Adult Development is an 86 year long study that is the single longest study that's ever been done on happiness, relationships, and the human experience. And Dr. Waldinger came to our studios in Boston to talk about all the findings from this study and what research says it means to live a good life.

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Now, he covered so much information and there was so much amazing life-changing advice that you absolutely loved. But there was one moment in particular that you listen to over and over again, and it's this. I asked Dr. Waldinger, if you look at all the research from this 86 year long study, what did the participants in the study say at the end of their life?

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When they reflected back, what were their biggest regrets and what were the biggest lessons? And listen to what Dr. Waldinger shared.

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You know, when you hear him say it, you know it's true. And you and I need these reminders because it's so easy to get sucked up in work and all the stressful things going on that you forget that at the end of the day, it's about the people in your life. That's what actually matters. I know after hearing this research and hearing Dr. Waldinger explain it just so matter-of-factly,

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It certainly made me prioritize my relationships, both with my adult kids and my parents and the friends that I need to make more of an effort to see. And I know it did the same for you because you shared this moment over and over and over again. And, you know, I was curious.

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particularly about that point that he said, that women felt that they wasted too much of their lives worrying about what other people think, that that's one of the biggest regrets. And so I asked him, well, do you have advice for how to stop doing that? And this is what Dr. Waldinger had to say.

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You know, he's such a kind way of calling us out, doesn't he? You know, like when he said that line about the only person that's going to remember that you worked late is your kids, like that was like a oof. He's right.

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You know, you're losing sleep over whether or not people are impressed by what you're wearing or you've got enough followers or your home looks like an Instagram before and after post. Nobody cares. The truth is, none of that stuff is gonna matter when you're gone. What's gonna matter?

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The way you treat people, the kind of person you are, whether or not you showed up when it mattered for the people who love you. And 20 years from now, your coworkers aren't gonna remember the emails you sent at midnight, but your kids, well, they'll remember. They'll remember that you were always stressed out or they'll remember that you were there for them.

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So the big wake-up call there, stop putting so much weight on what other people think. One other thing that is going to help you, the let them theory. Let them think whatever they want. Let them think whatever they want about your curtains or your outfit or what you're doing for a living or the fact that you can't work this weekend because you're spending the time with your kids.

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Just focus on what matters to you, your character, your kindness, how you make other people feel. Because what I've found in life is that when you are proud of who you are, you don't actually care what other people think. And that's what's going to last, is how you show up. That's what people are going to carry with them long after you're gone, who you were for them.

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And that's something that you can take control of right now. And that leads us to our next moment with Dr. Zach Bush. So Dr. Bush is a triple board certified physician in internal medicine, endocrinology, and hospice care.

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From his groundbreaking work in gut health, to his advocacy in farming, to his profound experiences guiding people through the end of their lives, Dr. Zak brings wisdom that can help you live a more meaningful and authentic life.

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And on the episode that you just absolutely loved and shared with everybody that you know, Dr. Zak was here to teach you all of these lessons that he's learned from being with people as they were experiencing the final moments of their life.

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And so these are lessons that he learned as a hospice doctor that you can use right now to stop performing and to start embracing who you are and to truly allow yourself to live your life.

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And so I asked Dr. Zach, after all the work that you've done in hospice and being with people as they leave this lifetime, what are the things that you see people regret that can help you and me live a better life? And this is what he had to say.

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Just take a moment and let his word soak in. You know, particularly these last two experts and these moments where Dr. Zach Bush and Dr. Waldinger are sharing these profound lessons that they've learned from being with people who are at the end of their lives. And here's what I'm taking away from all this advice.

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that you got to stop waiting for the right time or the perfect moment or for work to slow down or for someone else's approval to fully live your life. You have everything that you need right now. Drop the act. Embrace who you are. Drink the cup of coffee and allow yourself to enjoy it. Heck, sit down and drink it instead of racing to the next thing. Stop, breathe, be.

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Stress is causing belly fat?

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We've got science back advice, laughter, tears, and you're going to want to listen all the way to the end. And here's why. I've got the most moving moments from the Mel Robbins podcast waiting for you. And it wouldn't be the year-end best of episode without me compiling the very best bloopers of the year too. All right, let's do this. Mel Robbins

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laugh with your kids, call your friends, spend time with your parents while you can, treat every day like the gift that it is. Because as every one of your favorite experts have told you today, when you strip away all the noise, when you stop allowing everyone to stress you out, when you truly just embrace yourself,

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For everything that you are, the flaws, the amazing things, you just show more compassion. What's left when you strip it all away, that's what really matters. Being fully alive and fully yourself. I want to thank you for being here with me, whether you've been here all year or you're just listening for the first time. These moments really impacted me and I know they impacted you.

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So thank you for sharing these episodes. Thank you for replaying these moments. Thank you for writing in and telling me how much you got out of these conversations and so many more. And we're just getting started. This year's been incredible. Next year, going to be even better.

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And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And everything that you heard in the episode today is the exact formula to do that. From your brain to your mental health to your overall physical health to truly the things that matter.

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Stop being so hard on yourself and embrace who you are and allow yourself to live your life and truly enjoy it. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. Cranking it down. Awesome. Thank you. All right, here we go. Fabulous.

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I call it neuroadrenaline because I can't say the nephorephrine. Norpinephrine. Yes, I can't say that. What is... I'll wait till you do it. I'll take some more.

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We could say that. A little snarky. Good? Okay, great. God, I do need some lunch. You guys need lunch too. You haven't eaten either. All right, better? Good. We're in the pocket now? Okay, great. Okay. Hold on. Let me try that one more time. Boom. But it's good, right? I can't believe you just did that. Awesome.

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And endocrinology. Do you go outside and lay under a tree every day? Regularly. I think near-death has a branding problem. I think we need to come up with a different word for it. Rebirth. Rebirth. There you go. I'm going to have a rebirth experience. All right, ready? Awesome. To bring you our first ever, wait, hold on a second, is a root cause. What? Okay.

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Okay. Hold on a second. No problem. No problem. No problem.

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No problem. You're freaking fantastic. Time for lunch. Can you explain nighttime revenge? What's it called? Revenge. Okay. I promise you this information. Jesus. Okay. Hold on. Go back up. and was the medical director of Harvard's Beth Israel Dinkit. Jesus Christ. I can't. I think I need to take a breath. Stand up. Oh, my Lord. Dr. Aditi Naruka. Oh, God, I said it wrong. Nurkar. Did I do it?

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Nurkar? Nurkar. Okay, so I'm like Nura. I haven't practiced, so I'm right. Nurkar.

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My allergies are coming, everybody. Sorry. Go ahead. Bless you. And I just would be curious to know, do we have a, is that like a... Are they gone? Construction.

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I'm in the middle of writing my next book.

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I don't think you're praying hard enough. I would get on a plane for you. I will feed you.

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

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I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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And that's all initiated in the brain because the brain is picking up on higher levels of cortisol. Yeah. Did you hear that? I mean, that was the first time I had ever heard the connection between stress and belly fat, but it makes so much sense, doesn't it? And so the next thing I was curious about is I asked her, okay, well, how do high levels of stress impact the functioning of the brain?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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And check out what she had to say.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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It's so fascinating, isn't it? And one of the things that I read about in her work is that she has found that stress is contagious. And this is a really important concept to understand so you can protect yourself from other people's stress and you don't catch it because now we know the impact of it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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And what you're going to hear her talk about is some research regarding what happens among silverback gorillas. how stress travels in and among silverback gorillas and how the exact same thing is happening to you and me. Check this out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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that if the person in charge of your paycheck is stressed out, that their stress is a direct threat to your financial survival. And that's why it triggers you like that. And so that makes a lot of sense that stress would be contagious and affect everybody around you. So if stress is contagious, how do you protect yourself from other people's stuff?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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So simply lowering your own stress insulates you from other people's stress.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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This is so important. And I don't know about you, I just love the way she explains things. When I hear adrenal glands and I hear the functioning of the brain, it makes me feel more motivated to want to put up that personal, almost like a force field. Like that's what you're doing because you don't want to catch your boss's stress.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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You don't want your spouse or your kids or your roommate's stress to impact you and it shouldn't. And you want to know another thing that is super effective, at least it has been for me, is saying let them. The let them theory is another force field that you can create because you can see that somebody else's stress

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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Your bosses, let's just take that situation or maybe your professor and they're going to grade your exams. Their stress, it feels threatening, but it doesn't have to. And Dr. Tara taught you that it's contagious and you have to protect yourself from it. So just say, let them, let them be stressed and I'm going to put the force field up.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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This episode today, it's all about your favorite moments and your fellow listeners' favorite moments for the Mel Robbins Podcast from over the past year. And if you're brand new, I want to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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And one other reason why I love this is because she's not just giving you an explanation, she's also handing you a solution. And when you not only understand what's going on inside your body or inside someone else's, you can see it coming. And it amplifies the reason why simple things like meditation or taking a walk outside or simply taking a deep breath or reminding yourself, let them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year

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Their stress is theirs. Doesn't have to be mine. That's why this is such a game changer. And that's why I think you loved that moment on the podcast as much as I did, because it not only made you smarter, it equipped you with what you needed to do. And I love that. And while we're on the topic of stress, that brings me to our next all-star from this past year, and that is Dr. Aditi Noorakar.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you hit play because today's conversation is going to, I think it's going to blow your mind. See, right now, you and I are part of this game that's going on, and you don't even know about the game. And this game that you and I are playing, it's changing how your brain works.

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And see, the reality is that you and I have been tricked into participating in and being used for a game that you and I didn't even know we were playing. You know, you and I look at the phone and we're like, oh, this is great. This is really great. I love this. I can connect with people. And it is great. But if you don't realize that you've been lured into something

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For the sole purpose that you might buy something or that you might stay a little longer so that somebody can make money on you, then you are stepping into a game and you will always lose. And I'm going to give you a couple examples.

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How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over

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Number two, when you change the way you look at the world, you're going to get energy back. Number three, when you change the way you look at the world, you're going to get your ability to enjoy your life back. Because here's what's gonna change. You're not gonna be wasting all your dopamine on your phone.

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How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over

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So have you ever gotten off an airplane and you get off an airplane, like especially if you land in a new country or you're going somewhere where there's like Orlando, you're going to go to Disney World. When you get off that plane, they purposefully move

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move you through a section of the airport where there's all kinds of stuff to buy and the hallways are really little so that all you do is see stuff to buy and here's another example have you ever been to a museum and when you get out of the exhibit where do they put you they put you in the gift store and they don't just put you in the gift store by the exit they force you to walk through the whole thing and see all this kind of stuff why are they doing that

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They are doing that because they're trapping you in a place where they have your attention in the hopes that if they put stuff in front of you, you're going to buy it. And the longer that you stay in there, which is why it takes a long time to walk through it. You know who else does this? IKEA. Have you ever tried to get out of an IKEA store for crying out loud quickly? You can't.

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They make you literally walk two miles through every single display. Why? because they're trying to hold your attention. The longer that you're in there, the more likely you're going to see something that you buy. The more time that you spend in there, the more money they make. And they're not doing this because they're mean. They're doing this because they're a for-profit company.

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The same thing is true about the phone. And that's why, number one, My number one goal today, there's a number of things I want to teach you, is I want you to wake up and understand that if you don't see the game, you don't understand the rules, you're going to lose the game. Full stop. Full stop. That's why you're screwing yourself over.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It's because you don't understand the larger context of your phone and headlines. That's why they're sensational. I mean, that's why the news reads like the world is falling apart. Because if you think it's scary, if you're worried and your emotions start to get all jacked up, you're more likely to click.

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That's why the world and the internet and social media, they're designed on purpose to steal your attention. And that's why we have gotten to a point in the world where we are all losing the game of attention. And you lose first and foremost by not even realizing that you're actually playing a big game. And here's the thing.

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You know, I should say right off the bat, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this because on one hand, I do believe that the phone and internet and social media, these are extraordinary tools. They are extraordinary tools to connect, to share your art, to market your business. to be self-expressed. They're extraordinary tools to get information, to learn, to grow.

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And once you learn how big tech is using you, you, my friend, are gonna stop losing this game and you're gonna turn the tables and you're gonna win it. Because instead of being a tool for big tech to make money, you're gonna learn how to have boundaries with your phone and how to use technology as a tool to help you achieve your goals and to make your life better.

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You can connect with people all around the world. I mean, they are incredible. The reason why I can connect with you right now from above my garage in Southern Vermont, you're maybe halfway around the world, is because of technology, because of the phone, because of the internet, because of social media. So yes, they are extraordinary tools, but only if you use it as a tool, right?

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See, it's a great tool if every time you reach for this tool, You recognize you're the one who's using it intentionally as a tool. And here's the problem. The problem is you and I became the tool. Mm-hmm. We weren't paying attention. We were busy living our lives. We were enjoying laughing about the things that we saw on the internet.

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And slowly what started to happen is we started spending more and more and more time on our phones. I mean, just to put this in perspective, the first iPhone was released in 2007. So we're talking like almost 20 years ago. And over the years, like when this first thing like started and we all had it for the first five, 10 years, whatever, it wasn't on your person all the time.

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You aren't texting all the time. You aren't on social media all the time. But something kind of creepy has happened over the last couple years. Absolutely everybody is on their phone all the time. It's like some sort of addictive substance has been pumped into the oxygen that we're all breathing. And now we're all like, oh, well, wake up. Look at the phone. Always look at the phone.

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I got to have the phone on me. We're all doing it. And so I, today, I really want to share all this information with you. And you can tell that I'm very passionate about this. I'm passionate about it because, you know, everybody is quick to go, social media sucks, the internet sucks, you know, big tech sucks. And on some level, you're right, it does.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But part of the problem is simply blaming social media and blaming the internet and blaming the phone. It doesn't highlight what's actually going on. And I said that I had mixed feelings about this because I do. I do see the good. I see the good that the phone and the internet and connection and social media and videos and information and tools that are powered by AI, I see the good.

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I mean, this is one of those conversations, I get so fired up about this, I think you can tell this, that you're going to want to share this with absolutely everybody that you care about that has a smartphone, which is everybody that you care about.

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But here's the problem. If you don't understand that you're supposed to use this as a tool, you become the tool. You become a tool in a larger game that big tech built, that the internet is fueling, and it is a game that is built, designed, and it is engineered. to make you lose.

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Like I literally look at the phone and I'm like, okay, it's like the Hunger Games and I'm the tribute that's volunteered and I'm now stepping into the arena anytime I pick this up and it's a fight for my life. And if you don't understand this, you're literally screwing yourself over. It's like walking into the Hunger Games arena thinking that you're just kind of going on a camping trip.

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No, you're not. Like, seeing what it is is the most important way to protect yourself. Seriously, I want you to look at your phone and go, oh my gosh, I'm like stepping into the Hunger Games arena right here. And only one person is going to get out alive. It's either me or it's the billion people that are inside this arena that are trying to claw for my attention.

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And I want to paint it in such dramatic ways because have you ever stopped and considered that this device is using you. That it is a device that uses you. It listens to you. It follows you. It dynamically changes what it shows you. It is constantly pushing stuff in your face to click on or to purchase or to watch. And why is it doing that? I'll tell you why.

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So if you're ready to stop letting your brain be hijacked by big tech and by your phone, then you are in the right place because I'm about to change the way you see the world. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here, and I'm also so excited about the conversation today. This is a topic I am absolutely passionate about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because there's money to be made on you. And so I want you to be very clear that every time you pick this thing up, that you are stepping into the Hunger Game ring. That's what's happening. And if you pick up the device with eyes wide open, guess what happens? You're no longer the tool. You're no longer the one that is going to lose.

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You are picking up this device knowing full well what you're walking into, and you're going to be smart about what you use this for rather than allowing it to use you, which is what's happened. And I think this is why when we look at everybody around us, we get so frustrated. Because you can see that your kids and your partner and your roommates, they've all turned into zombies.

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I mean, how many times have you been sitting around with your friends from college and everybody's on their phone and you're thinking, why did we even get together this weekend if we're all just going to sit around on our phones? Well, that can end now. It can end now because what you're seeing when you see people zoning out is you're seeing that the attention economy has won.

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You're seeing that they've stepped into the arena and they're losing the game. You're seeing that the intentional design of the phone is actually winning. And that's one of the reasons why I think it's so important to call out the fact that this is all by design and it's all based for money. That's what it's for.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the reason why this is important is because I think it's easy to aim your frustration at your kids or to aim it at other people or to aim it at your partner, that you're frustrated that they're always on their phone and they're never present with you. Well, the fact is they're losing a game that they don't even realize they're playing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I want you to start there because blaming other people and being upset with them isn't going to solve the problem. Understanding the larger context is the first step to going and looking at your phone and being like, ugh, ick. Like, how cool would it be if you had the ick about your phone? All right, let's take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over

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But don't go anywhere because you and I have so much more to unpack when we return. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are talking about changing the game we're playing when it comes to our phone and being a part of the attention economy. It's time for you to stop losing the game and start winning.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the first key to winning is actually understanding that you're in a game at all, understanding the rules of the game, understanding the cost of playing this game and not having a really important strategy in place. And that brings me to the next thing that I want to talk to you about, which is this.

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Technology and social media and the phone and internet and AI, all this stuff is a wonderful thing if you understand it's meant to be used as a tool. But if you don't understand the larger context that I'm painting for you, that your phone is designed to make money off of you, and it makes more money off of you the longer you spend on it. If you don't understand that, then you are going to lose.

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And this isn't just social media. I mean, this is happening with AI too. Like, you know, and what's kind of crazy about this is, you know, let me tell you some of the lies that are happening with AI right now. I think this is kind of scary. Like, I literally was talking with my team the other day, and I don't even remember what we were talking about.

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Oh, like, I guess if you Google my name, which I don't do, but if you Google, is Mel Robbins divorced, right? Go to Google and you go, is Mel Robbins divorced? Do you know, you know how when you Google something now, AI generates a answer? And what's scary about AI is that it's generating answer from stuff that's out on the internet. And since there's no internet police,

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The amount of random, disgusting, horrible lies that are out on the internet about everybody and everything, it's kind of terrifying. And now we're stepping into a world where we think chat GPT is right. We think open AI is giving us the best answer. No, no, no, no. They're just aggregating what's out there and serving up something. So if you go and you type in, is Mel Robbins divorced?

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AI is going to tell you I'm divorced. It literally says Mel Robbins is divorced. And then you want to know what it does? It serves up a link to a podcast episode of my podcast where I am giving someone advice who is going through a divorce. So AI has aggregated information that's out there, randomly assembled it, and served it up as the truth about me. It's not true. It's not true.

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I have so much to share with you, to teach you, to have you just really, it's the kind of conversation that just makes you look amazing. at the world and what's possible differently. And so let me just start by saying thank you for being here. It is always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

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Like anybody can make up anything about anybody and it's now out there. And so I say this because you have to understand, and I have very mixed feelings about technology, about the internet. And one of the reasons why I'm so successful is because I understand technology. I use it as a tool.

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And I have also become more successful in having boundaries with my phone, not because I'm reading research reports and not because I'm doing the things that the experts tell us to do. I have better boundaries with my phone because I understand the manipulative nature of the attention economy.

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and the way that this phone and the internet is programmed to keep you sucked into it, because the longer you spend on it, the more money some stranger makes off of you. It's true. It's absolutely true. And so if you want to spend seven hours a day consuming things on your device, Just be clear, somebody is making a ton of money on you. And you're telling yourself that you're just wasting time.

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Nope, you're not just wasting time, you're actually making people money. Because that's what this is really about. The more time you spend on social media, the more money big tech and influencers make. And I'm gonna tell you something else, it's not your fault. It's not your fault. This is sort of like saying to somebody, it's your fault that you're addicted to cigarettes. No, it's not.

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You had an addictive substance marketed to you as if it was gonna improve your life because it looks like fun. And now you feel bad because you can't stop smoking even though you don't really enjoy it and you've got this horrible cough and you got all these people judging you because you're still doing it and you feel ashamed of it, but it's not your fault. It's designed to be addictive.

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Same thing with alcohol. Alcohol is marketed to you and me as if it's required for a celebration, as if it does make your life better. And so if you have trouble cutting back or having just one drink or drinking less, that's not your fault. The substance and the industry has designed it that way so that you keep doing it. And when you start from that level that it's actually not your fault...

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Now you have a fighting chance to look at this device and to look at the way that you consume media with very black and white eyes. And so the more time you spend on social media, the more money big tech and influencers make. So let me just ask you a couple of questions. When's the last time you saw posts that were of your friends on Instagram? Like for real, when's the last time?

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And if you are a new listener, I also want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am glad that you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. Even though we may not have met in real life yet,

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If you're like me, I never see my friends or my kids online, ever. And I've even gone and kind of clicked them as my close friends, right? Which I thought meant I would see them more. No, you know what I see? I see ads. Almost every other thing that comes in my feed is a suggested for you, so it's something getting served up, or it's a shop now.

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And then what ends up happening, and it might happen to you because you're listening to this podcast and you may follow me online. And if you do follow me and you happen to watch one reel, you know what's going to happen? They're going to keep serving up my content to you. Why? Because the machines that are trying to keep you on it, remember, you're in the Hunger Games.

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Remember, you're in the arena. They're going to serve up more of the things that I make to you Because they now think you like it. And within a week, you're going to start going, God, does Mel ever sleep? I mean, it's like all I see is her all over. That is the arena. Because it's trying to keep you on it. This, to me, is manipulation.

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If this were an altruistic platform, you know what social media would do? It would just show you what people post in a linear timeline when they post it. And it would show you just as many posts from the rock as it shows you your friends and family. But see, that's why I'm trying to tell you, you're the tool.

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Like you and I go onto the phone and we think, oh, I'm gonna go on social media and just pass a little bit of time and I'm gonna have some fun. Be careful. You can certainly do that. But this is going to try to manipulate you. Like, it's just like being in Vegas. If you've ever been in a casino, in order to get to any of the restaurants or to get to the elevators, what do you have to do?

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You have to walk through the casino. And what is in the casino? It's bright lights, it's bells, it's whistles, it's all this stuff trying to manipulate you so that you engage with it. See, whenever you're bored now, you pick up your phone. Whenever the movie's not that interesting, you pick up your phone.

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Whenever the teacher in front of the class isn't saying something that interesting, you look at your phone. When you're lying in bed and you're having trouble going to sleep, you look at your phone. If you're sitting at a stoplight, you're looking at your phone. Heck, if you're honest with yourself, you're probably looking at it as you're driving.

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As you're sitting on an airplane, you're looking at the phone. As you're sitting in a meeting, you've got your phone like kind of beneath the table and you're checking it out every once in a while. It has snuck up on you and it did it on purpose.

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I know that you're the kind of person who probably doesn't have a lot of free time, but you've made time to listen to this because you value how you spend your time. And that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about time, and we're going to talk about a particular kind of lane on it that's really important.

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And that's why I need you and me and everybody that you care about that you're going to send this to, to actually wake up and recognize that this is not here because it wants to help you. It's here to make money on you. You know, the sad thing about the time that we live in right now is I feel like everything's that way. Politics. Politics is now entertainment. Headlines, same way.

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The scarier it is, the more you're going to keep checking them. And if you want to see how much of a tool you've become, just check your screen time. Like, not even as a way to make you wrong, but see, I don't think... any of us realize how this has crept up on us?

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And after just considering that you live in the attention economy and considering that everything is designed to keep you on it so that they make money, you got to recognize that because the rules have changed, you got to change your rules with how you play the game. and you got to see it for what it is, and you got to take your power back, and you got to go, ick, I'm not going to be an idiot.

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I'm not going to allow them to just keep me trapped in this stuff so they make money. I'm going to get in, and then I'm going to get out. And that's how I think about this. How can I use this device and social media and the internet to actually help me achieve my goals? How can I use this as a tool, as it's designed to be used to benefit me instead of me being the tool?

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And my use of it benefiting them. Do you see what I'm saying? Like being smarter about it allows you to change how you engage with it. And that's why I want you to think about this. Because that brings me to the second really important thing about understanding that you live in the attention economy. Your attention and time is for sale. and the world is designed to steal it from you.

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That's why you're tired. That's why you spend too much time on your phone. That's why you spend too many evenings just mindlessly watching one thing after the other thing, because the game is designed for you to lose. So now that you accept that, and I hopefully have given you the eww factor, And I've woken you up to the fact that you do have power. These are amazing tools.

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You got to step into the arena, get what you need, and then get out. The second thing I really want to highlight for you and for everybody that you're going to share this with is that there's a huge cost to playing the game. a huge cost.

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And the thing that you're about to hear, because I wanted an expert to explain this to you, because when I heard this from a guy by the name of Dr. K, he goes by the Healthy Gamer Online, he is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist,

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who specializes in gaming addiction, and he's also a neuroscientist and psychiatrist who has taught me more about the circuitry in the brain and motivation in a way that I truly understand better than anybody else that I've ever met or read or studied in my entire life. And you're going to hear from Dr. K right after the break. So don't go anywhere.

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This is literally one of the best parts of our conversation today is what he's about to teach you. And while you're listening to our sponsors, make sure you share this with everyone that you know, because everyone needs to understand how to win the game and how not to be the tool, but to flip the game on its head and start winning and using it as a tool. Alrighty, don't go anywhere.

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See, you and I and every single person that you know is screwing themselves over right now when it comes to time, when it comes to energy, when it comes to attention. And there's a reason why we keep doing this to ourselves. And here's why.

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Dr. K is coming up next. Stay with me. Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are talking about the phone, how it's designed to steal your time. You are learning that you're in the attention economy, and you and I, we are single-handedly going, nope, nope, I'm not losing this game, I'm understanding the game, and I am going to learn how to play it and how to win.

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And one of the things that's gonna motivate you to win this game and to change how you show up and to change why you need to show up is understanding the true cost of what it's costing you. Now, we've already talked about time. We've already talked about energy. We've already talked about how you're being used and manipulated. Now, I want to talk about a really important cost, and that's dopamine.

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Now, dopamine is just a fancy word. You hear it all the time, but it has a very important function in your life. According to the experts that I've been talking to on the Mel Robbins podcast and the research that I do, dopamine is essential for your mood, for motivation, for drive.

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And one person that has taught me more about dopamine, what it is, why it's important, the connection to mood and motivation is Harvard-trained psychiatrist, Dr. Alec Kenosha. You may know him as Dr. K. He goes by The Healthy Gamer online. He has millions of followers on YouTube. His specialty is in how the brain works, addiction, motivation, changing behavior. He's an absolute genius.

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And when he shared with me What's happening to your brain when you are just handing your time right over to the phone, particularly in the morning, this was the information that truly motivated me to completely change my relationship with my phone.

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Got it. So if I have a cup... of capacity for both pleasure and behavioral reinforcement, you're saying that when you wake up, that one cup is already full?

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It's because you don't realize that the world that you now live in and big tech, and in particular, let me grab my phone right now, I'm going to grab my phone, that your phone is is now designed for a singular purpose. You ready? It is designed to steal your time and attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So in other words, if you tap into technology and it invades your circuitry and your brain, it literally is like squeezing most of the juice out of the lemon first thing in the morning. First thing in the morning.

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And then that means that it's also going to impact your ability to do the work or to focus or to feel joy and all those things that normally, if you did those things first, you'd feel a sense of reward and joy for.

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All righty. I want to make sure that you really understand the weight of what Dr. K is trying to teach you and me because when he shared that with me, it was such an enormous wake-up call that really helped me connect the dots. And the whole purpose of our conversation today is to give you a reason why you

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you need better boundaries with your phone and tech, that you have to use it as a tool and you've got to stop allowing big tech and social and the phone to turn you into the tool. And so what Dr. K just said is that you've got all of this dopamine reserve and dopamine circuitry in your brain and

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And you've probably heard that word, but I don't know if you're like me, I'm constantly forgetting what these big words mean. But dopamine is related to your drive, it's related to motivation, it's related to pleasure. And what Dr. K is saying is that when you wake up first thing in the morning, you're ready to go. The gas tank in the brain, in terms of dopamine, it's full.

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The circuitry is ready to go. It is primed and there to help you experience pleasure, to help you move toward things that give you meaning in your life. And then you and I make a really dumb mistake because we don't recognize the game that we're in. We make this mistake first thing in the morning of picking up the phone. And then we get on social media. And then we read the headlines.

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Everybody can market everything about connection and all the wonderful things about your phone and the internet and social media. And it's true. There's a lot of wonderful things about your phone. But the number one thing that this phone is designed to do is it is designed to steal your time and attention. And this is a really big deal.

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And when you step into that arena, in the words of Dr. K, technology and the phone and social media, it's like taking the lemon that represents the dopamine and squeezing all the juice out. So that by the time you start your day, if you spent too long on your phone, You've literally drained the dopamine tank simply by stepping into the arena and allowing yourself to be turned into a tool.

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And now for the rest of the day, you're playing catch up. This is why everything seems dull. This is why you don't really feel the drive. This is why your mood is kind of low and you're a little numb.

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And this also then means that at the end of the day, when you're done at school or you're done at work and you get home and you're done feeding the dogs and making dinner and you collapse on the couch, all you want to do because you've got no dopamine left and you're not really feeling much of anything and you're exhausted is what? Pick this thing up again.

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And you enter the arena and you make people more money and then you just feel worse. And I want to give you a little test to really just highlight for you why the phone is designed the way it's designed. Have you ever turned your phone to the grayscale feature? It's pretty unbelievable.

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When you move your phone to grayscale, it is going to be so startling that you don't even need to hear research about this. But I do have research, and this research is unbelievable. There was a study done between Cornell and researchers at IE University in Madrid all about grayscale.

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When people like you and me just switch the phone to black and white and grayscale, it reduces your daily screen time by 50 minutes. 50 minutes. And you could use those 50 minutes, right? I mean, I know I could use those 50 minutes. I want you to intentionally try to turn your phone to grayscale. I'm not even going to ask that you leave it on grayscale.

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I'm going to ask that you just try to find it, which even as I'm talking to you, I can't freaking find it on my phone. That's how they've hidden this. But when you ultimately get your phone to grayscale, you're going to look at it and be like, well, that's not fun to look at. Oh, all those influencers don't look so tan and amazing and fabulous when it's on grayscale.

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Oh, like this isn't that neat to be in. It's sort of like the same way a casino is bright and shiny and loud and you have to walk through it and you can't find the elevators, which means you stay in it long enough. Because when you strip away the colors, your phone is very boring.

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It's literally the difference between watching a movie that is 100% AI driven where somebody's arm twists into a snake and then it morphs into a cheetah. And it's just this absolutely unbelievable visual just craziness versus thinking about the original Frankenstein movie.

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that was black and white and amazing at the time, but you're just now looking at it like, is that my uncle dressed up in a suit for my party? I mean, that thing's pretty terrible. You can barely even watch it. And the reason why I'm saying this is because when you strip away the colors on your phone, you're going to get the chills.

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Because I think beautiful design is something that's exciting to see.

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But holy cow, when you just strip away all the bells and whistles, you'll now see your phone for what it should be, which is a tool, a tool you can use to get work done, a tool you can use to connect with people you care about, a tool that you can use to search for information that you need that makes you smarter, a tool that you can use to market. But boy, oh boy, does it not

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By the time you and I are done talking today, you will never actually look at your phone the same way again. And this is important because you do need to change the way that you look at your phone. I'm going to explain that the world and tech and the phone and social media, holy cow, in the last five years, it has completely changed. And you and I need to have a huge wake-up call.

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make you want to stay on this thing because it's super boring. And the reason why I'm telling you this now is because if it's super boring and sort of like, ugh, why would I want to use that? I don't want to hang out with an Excel spreadsheet all day. I mean, this is like, what? You'll also realize what Dr. K is saying.

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All the pretty colors and the moving things and the pop-ups here and the thing over there and the scrolling that you're doing It's very stimulating. And it's also draining your dopamine, which is keeping you on there. And that means it's draining the reserves that you need for motivation and pleasure for the important things in your life.

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And that brings me to another thing that I want to add to this conversation. So we've already talked about the fact that you've got to wake up and recognize that you live in the attention economy and that tech is designed to steal your attention and that you've become unknowingly and without consent unknowingly. a tool in someone else's game, and the game is let's make money on you.

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So that's ick number one. Ick number two is that it's not just making other people money. It's actually costing you something important. It's costing you your dopamine reserves. That first thing in the morning when you look at this stuff and you expose yourself to this arena that you're stepping in where it's designed to make you lose, You're not just losing time and attention and energy.

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You're also losing your dopamine. It's like that lemon hard squeeze gone. And it's not your fault. The whole game is rigged. And that's why you feel how you feel. And you know, the really awful part about all this is that it keeps you on it and addicted to it. Because if you're getting that hard squeeze on the lemon by looking at bright and shiny things, guess what?

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You're going to keep going back to it, just like people keep going back to cigarettes and they keep going back to slot machines and they keep going back to alcohol. Because the game itself and the device and substance itself is designed to do this to you. And that's why it's not your kid's fault. It's not your fault. It's not anybody's fault.

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But we have a responsibility to ourselves to wake up and recognize what's happening so that when the world that you see changes, You change the way you see the world and you change the way that you show up. Wayne Dwyer said that. And it's time to change the way that you show up. Because the third thing I want to tell you is that it's actually already changed your brain.

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This is not just a problem for the kids and the high schoolers and the college kids in your life. Most of us just don't realize that it's happened to us too. For example, this is when I really first started to notice it for me personally.

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As I said earlier, I've understood the attention economy and I've both understood it because I've been sucked into it and I also understand it because I'm an entrepreneur and I'm in the media business. But for me personally, this really started to hit me a couple of years ago when I just started to practice being in line at a grocery store and not checking my phone. It's a very hard thing to do.

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It's changing how you live your life. And here's what I want to ask you. Have you ever thought to yourself, gosh, I wish I wasn't on my phone so much. I wish I wasn't constantly wasting time scrolling. I wish I had more time to do the things that I really want to do and to be present with the people that I love. And I wish they were present for me. Well, I got news for you. You're not alone.

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I want you to try this. Like just like you tried the grayscale, the next time you're standing in line, you're standing at a hardware store, you're standing at a checkout line at a little corner store, I want you to not look at your phone. Like keep it in your pocket or in your back pocket or in your purse. And here's what you're going to notice. You get fidgety.

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You feel this sense that you need to look at it. you're gonna feel yourself looking around and you're gonna notice everybody else that's standing in line, unless they're talking to a child, they literally are looking at their phones. And then when you see other people looking at their phones, you are gonna start to really feel like you need to be looking at your phone. This is a sign

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Because when I paint the picture of what this phone is actually designed to do, it's going to change your motivation for how you use it and when you use it. And, you know, I've been talking about this topic. It's called the attention economy. for years. I mean, I've been traveling the world.

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that all of this intentional programming and engineering is working because it's changed the wiring in your brain and it's made you want and crave something that you don't need. You know, another example is, can you watch television without having your phone nearby? Like how quickly, when the series that you're watching gets slow, do you reach for your phone? I'll give you one more, one more.

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This is the big one. Do you lay in bed and look at your phone? Does the idea of even going to bed without your phone nearby make you feel agitated? And this is not just a problem for teenagers. I have a really close friend of mine who was telling me that they're very worried about their father because he, since retiring, has become addicted to his iPad.

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Like he literally sits with it and rocks as he's watching it all day. He goes to bed with it. The man is 80 years old. It is creating huge problems in his marriage of 45 years. And everybody's kind of relating to it like he's got a problem. This is his problem. He's addicted to a thing that's actually designed to be addictive.

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And you're watching your father pull away from life while other people make more and more and more money on him. That's what's happening. And if you can't see that for yourself, that the game is rigged to keep you playing, that's why you feel these things. That's why you and I stay longer on our phones than we intend to.

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That's why eventually you open up your wallet and you're clicking shop now and you're buying all this stuff that you didn't intend to. And while this is not good news, that it's engineered to change you and keep you addicted and these small examples that I'm pointing out are evidence that it's true.

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The good news is that your brain has something called neuroplasticity, which I'm sure is a word that you've heard. It's just a fancy word that means your brain can change. It's bendy. It can create new connections. Just like your brain learned that it needs the phone to go to bed, it can learn that it doesn't go to bed with the phone. You can retrain your brain.

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You can train your brain to see the phone and go, ick, just like an old boyfriend or girlfriend.

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You know, have you ever had a relationship in the past where, or a friend that you were super, super close with and then you started to kind of feel like, oh, I've spent a little bit too much time with them, but you keep spending time with them and then all of a sudden something happens and you're like, ick, ugh, ugh. That's what I want you to feel about the phone.

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That's what I want you to feel every time you play the Hunger Games and you step into the arena that is social media, AI, or the internet. I want you to see it for what it is. Because when you see the game for what it is, you can actually now play the game and win. And that brings me to the final thing, what to do. What do you do? What do you do now that you hopefully have the ick?

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You and I may just be kind of getting to know each other through the Mel Robbins podcast, but for almost a decade, I spent most of my career traveling around the world and speaking at huge events, being put on by some of the biggest brands in the world, talking about all kinds of things from behavior change to motivation. And a really big topic has been

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And if you're younger and you're listening to this and you still have aspirations of having an online business and you still have aspirations of becoming an influencer or a YouTuber, that's great. You can do whatever you want with your life, but you will make more money and be more successful if you go into those professions understanding that this is a tool,

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that your phone is a device and that you don't collapse who you are and the meaning in your life with your ambition and job and wanting to use the tool for marketing or learning how to make money online. It's an incredible thing to do. And if you're listening to me and you're a realtor or you have a side hustle, you should be using the phone and the internet and social media as a tool.

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But what's gonna make you wildly successful is understanding that you're the one in charge. And here's what you're gonna do. And I'm almost embarrassed to give you the advice, right? Because you already know the advice. But the thing about advice is it's easy to know what to do, you know, because we've all been told you got to have less screen time, right? You got to spend less time on the phone.

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Okay, thanks, Sherlock. I think I'm aware of that. Now that Mel has explained attention economy and the fact that I've been losing the game and the fact that this is designed to steal my time and the fact that I'm losing dopamine and that my brain has been rewired, now I have a reason why. I actually want to do something. And so I'm just going to give you the things that have mattered to me.

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Because there's lots of things that you can do, but there's really one major thing that I think is super important. And that is boundaries. I want you to have very clear boundaries with your phone. And the only thing that has helped me is physical separation. I've tried to limit the screen time and to put the timers on. I just suspend the notifications.

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I have moved my apps from the home screen to pages in. It just ends up making me scroll more. For real. The grayscale and going black and white, that's a big deal because it's not that fun to be on the phone and it reminds you that this is utility-based. rather than addiction and a time waster.

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But the biggest boundary that's really worked for me is physical separation, not having the phone on your body. Because I'm just like you are. I have a need for the phone. I'm addicted to the phone. I recognize that. So if it's in my hand or on my body, I will look at it.

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And so physical acts of separation have made a big difference in my ability to establish boundaries and not casually enter the arena. So what does that look like? Well, the biggest boundary that I have, I talk about it a lot. And so you may have heard me say this, but again, this is a daily boundary I have to set. I don't take the phone into bed.

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at night, as hard as it is, I charge my phone in the bathroom because if this phone were next to me, I would reach for it, full stop. I would. So I make it very difficult to reach for it by having it separated from me. That's number one. Number two is I leave my phone typically on my desk. Now, I have my phone in my hand. If you're watching on YouTube, you've seen me holding this thing.

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understanding the way that technology and the phone in particular is designed to steal your attention and your focus. Because you and I now live in what's called the attention economy. And this is important for you to understand. It's important for your middle schoolers to understand, for your high schoolers, for the 20-somethings.

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It's got a bright pink case all day long. If I'm during work hours, I keep my phone on my desk. And I try not to have it on my person because if it's at my desk and then I go to a meeting, I'm not checking it. If it's at my desk and I'm doing some work, I'm not really looking at it. If it's on my body, I'm looking at it. Another thing that I do, here's another physical boundary.

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When I'm out taking a morning walk in particular, my phone is zipped in my fanny pack. Yes, I have a fanny pack. The dog treats are in there. But it's in my fanny pack or it's in a back pocket if I don't have that on me or it's in a zipped pocket so that I'm not... engaged with it. I'm actually present with my surroundings. I don't walk and hold it because why? I'll look at it.

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Another boundary that's been a really important one for our family is we do not allow phones at the dinner table, period. Whether we're at home, whether we're at a restaurant, they're not allowed even resting on the table. They are on your person, like in a pocket, or they are in your bag. And it's made a big difference in just encouraging meaningful conversations and connections.

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And the more you do that, the more you're going to dedicate time to hobbies, to interests, to actually building the business, to doing the art, to marketing what you're working on, instead of being the one that's being marketed to. And that's what's available to you. It's time for you and I to wake up and be smart about what's actually happening.

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And instead of being used by them, how about you and I turn the tables and we use them to achieve our goals and to make our lives a little bit better. Go look at everybody that you follow, all the accounts.

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And I promise you, you're going to realize you only see the same five accounts over and over and over again because they're the ones that the social media platforms are serving to you because they think you're going to stay on longer. And that means they're going to make more money. But if you are following somebody, you're giving them access to your brain and your attention, and that has value.

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And so what I want you to do is audit who has access to that. If the accounts that you're following do not give positive input, they don't make you laugh, they don't make you a better person, they don't make you feel good, delete, unfollow, because it is a privilege for that account to be able to show up in your feed.

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And when you start treating the input as a tool, like who can I follow that's going to make me better? What accounts can I follow in order to grow and achieve my goals? When you use it proactively that way, you're not actually stepping into the arena waiting to be killed by everybody and waiting to be a tool in everybody else's game to make money.

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you're actually stepping into the arena and selectively seeking out allies that now can help you achieve your goals and win the game. That's going to change all the time. And look, if you follow me and I'm not lifting you up, do not follow me. That's how much I want you to truly honor your attention. I want you to really look at it like a gift.

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Heck, if you've got aging parents that are now addicted to their iPad or their phone, it's important for them to understand. We live in a whole new world. We live in what's called the attention economy. Now, what does that mean? Here's what it means. It means your attention is for sale.

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And the way that you win is by putting up a gate between you and who's allowed to put input into your brain. That's how I think about the accounts that I follow. Are you actually making me better? Are you lifting me up? Are you teaching me things or am I following you out of guilt or just because I followed you 10 years ago or because we went to college together?

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That's not what I'm doing in this arena. I'm looking for allies that make me better and that's what I want you doing too. And you can curate your social media feed to uplift you rather than just constantly be staring at people that are trying to sell you something or bragging about their life or making you jealous of what they're doing. Get rid of those because all that negativity impacts you.

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And there's one final thing that I think is super interesting that I want to unpack for you because it brings us full circle and really helps you embrace the gravity of what's happened in the last five years and why this isn't your fault, but how waking up and recognizing the attention economy and how it's impacted you has also robbed you of a lot of meaning in your life.

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And I want to start that conversation by sharing a little bit of research with you that I found to be really important. And this comes from a study that was done by researchers in China. And they were looking at different interventions that could reduce symptoms of internet addiction.

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So everything that we're talking about here, spending too much time on your phone, too much time on social media, too much time online. And what they found, this was published in the Journal of Addictive Behavior, is that one intervention that had very strong effects on reducing symptoms of internet addiction was exercise. Now, it begs the question, why?

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Why would introducing exercise reduce addictive behavior online? Well, there's an important reason why. Moving your body is an important way to positively and naturally squeeze that little juice of dopamine. It puts you in a better mood.

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And have you ever noticed that if you ever go out for a hike or you do a pickup soccer game or you're playing a set of pickleball, you don't have any interest in looking at your phone because you're engaged in the physical activity. Like if I'm ever out skiing, I'm not skiing down a mountain looking at my phone because I'm moving my body and I'm connected to the environment.

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And so this is an important thing to understand because I think what's happened is as the rules of the game have changed, we didn't realize that the phone has turned into Hunger Games and that it's designed for us to lose.

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That it's created this self-fulfilling negative loop where the more time you spend on the phone, the less time you spend exercising or connecting with friends or doing the things that bring your life meaning like gardening and painting and picking up the guitar. All those things that lift you up naturally. You're not doing them. Why? Because you don't have time.

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That the time that you spend watching media, scrolling through your phone, tapping on certain things, buying things that you don't need, that everybody is making money off of your attention and your time. that you don't have to get on your phone and buy something for people to make money.

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You're tired, you're exhausted, and all of this is a result of the freaking phone and social media. So just as it sapped you and sucked you in over the last five years and you spend more and more and more and more and more time on it, it has left you more and more and more drained.

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more blah, more tired, and with less time, which means you don't have the time or the energy to do the things that gave your life true meaning. And that's the most important epiphany of all, is that here you and I are sitting there at the end of a long workday making ourselves wrong because we're exhausted and overwhelmed and stressed out, And we now just spent two to three hours doom scrolling.

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We've blown past our bedtime. We feel bad that we just wasted that time. And then we wake up tomorrow and instead of going out for a walk or changing our habits, we just pick up the phone again and squeeze all the juice and the dopamine's gone again. And here we are trapped in this trap. And my huge, huge number one thing is this is not your fault.

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The system's designed to do this to you, which is why you and I need to wake up and we need to recognize that the phone and social media is now the Hunger Games that you and I became a tool, that it stole everything for us, but we do not have to live like that. And big tech and the phone and social, it's not going to change. In fact, it's going to get worse.

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And so now's the time to understand that this can be a tool. It can be a tool for good, for connection, for growth, for learning, for art, for making great money, for making a difference in the world. It can be a tool for all kinds of amazing things. but only if you use it at that.

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And so the more boundaries that you create with this, the more you put it on grayscale, the more you keep it off your person, the more you look at it and go, ugh, I'm not stepping into the arena. Now that I see what it is, I'm not gonna do that to myself. What you're gonna get back is kind of extraordinary. Number one, you're going to get time back. Number two, you're going to get energy back.

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Number three, you're going to get your dopamine reserves back, which means your mood is going to get boosted and your energy is going to get lifted. And so is your optimism and your excitement.

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And you're going to recognize, wow, there's a lot of other things that I'd like to be doing with my life and the time that I have other than just giving it over to big tech so other people can make money on me. So thank you, thank you, thank you for hitting play. And thank you for sharing this with everybody in your life that you care about that has a phone.

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Like, I think this is one of those conversations that I truly hope travels around the world to everybody. Because waking up and understanding what's happening and seeing where you are not at fault, but you've lost a little of your power also helps you take that power back. because you do have power.

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And I am so excited to see what happens in your life when you start using your phone and social media and the internet for good, because you can. And in case no one else tells you this, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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You simply sitting on your phone and mindlessly scrolling and having it on, people have figured out how to make money with you simply having the phone on. And so takeaway number one is that your phone is designed to steal your attention for one reason, and one reason only. Because people are making money on you. It's that simple. They're making money on you.

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And there is no doubt in my mind that the conversation that we just had will help you create a better life because you now see how the rules have changed. You now see the game that's being played. And once you see it, you can change how you play the game, which means you, my friend, are going to be winning at it. All righty. I will see you in the very next episode.

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I will be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. All right. Here we go. Go, Jessie, go. 10 years ago, you didn't spend a lot. When was the cell phone? When was the smartphone, Trace?

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Mm-hmm. Okay, let me set this up real quick. Yeah, great. Okay, great. Change the way you look. Oh, hold on. Or did you guys like the way that it opened? I think it worked great. Okay, great. Then keep it. All right, keep going. Here we go. Overcomplicating as usual. Is that good? Great, great, great. Okay. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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And I'm going to unpack this in detail so that you really understand what your phone is and what it isn't. And that from this point forward, even if you're in middle school and you're listening to me, or you're 80 years old and you're listening to me, or you're 50 years old and you're frustrated because you can't get your family to just connect over dinner because everybody's on their phone.

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Well, the reason why this is true is because the phone is designed to keep you on it. Like, that's what you have to understand, that the rules have fundamentally changed and not enough of us are talking about it. I didn't figure this out until a couple of years ago when I started looking into the research around focus and attention.

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And I started folding in information about the attention economy and the way that the phones are designed because I started to feel concerned about my own use on the phone. I started to be frustrated with the fact that my kids were so on their phones all the time. It's like, what's going on with this generation?

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And then I started to feel frustrated about the fact that everybody around me is constantly on their phones and myself included. And see, here's the thing. Like, I think you've had that experience, haven't you? Where you know it's not good for you. You know you don't want to spend as much time on it.

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You know that when you're off your phone, you feel better, you're happier, you're more well-rested. We also know the simple, stupid advice for how it is that we can stop using it so much, and yet none of us Do it. And so I started to wonder, well, why? Why is it so hard? There must be something going on. The truth is, yeah, there is something going on. And this is going to be a huge thing.

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You've already learned one takeaway so far, which is you now live in the attention economy. Your phone is designed to keep you on it because even if it's just open, people have figured out how to make money with you just turning this thing on and having it in your hand. I mean, this is no joke.

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And that's why we're going to unpack the way that the world has changed and what's happened with the phone and how tech is designed and how social media is designed and how ads are designed and how headlines are written. They are specifically designed to screw you over, to have you just casually turn over your most precious thing in life, which is your time and your attention.

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See, the average person is spending 59 hours a week consuming media. Uh-huh, 59 hours. I mean, that's more than your full-time job. And today, I'm gonna show you that without even knowing it, you are losing this game that has been created by the big tech companies. You have actually become a tool, a tool for them to make money.

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Where you put your time is what your life is. And you don't probably know this. Your kids don't know this. The young adults in your life don't know this. Your parents don't know this. And that's why you're frustrated. I was frustrated too. The research around this is kind of crazy. Did you realize that you're probably spending seven hours a day consuming media on your phone?

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And if you were just like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. Yeah, you are. Is your phone on you? Do you look at it throughout the day? Every time you turn it on, you're activating the phone's ability to make money on you. Even simply if it's tracking you, guess what? There are companies making money on the data that's tracking you and listening to you.

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as you have it near you, even if you're not directly consuming media. That's what I'm talking about. And so if you've ever had that thought, boy, I wish I would just spend less time on my phone, or I wish I wasn't wasting hours scrolling on social media, Or how about this? Do you feel like you're constantly buying things that you didn't actually mean to buy?

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You know, the thing that's laying around downstairs that I can't find the actual company to be able to return the thing to is I bought a bunch of those bird feeders that have the little camera in them They were all over my Instagram feed. Oh my God, I've got like two extra ones here.

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I don't even remember buying them, probably because I bought it one night while I was scrolling through Instagram and the phone was on. And I even know that it is the attention economy and I still succumb to it. And the reason why I wanted to talk to you about this is because this is a really big deal.

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The research shows that the average person in the United States, based on the devices themselves, is spending seven hours a day consuming media on your phone. Seven hours a day. That's 59 hours a week. 59 hours. just looking at your TV and your phone, you got to be very careful about the addictive nature of this freaking device and how people are using you.

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Because when you wake up and are like, wait a minute, I'm getting used? then I think you're gonna have a different level of motivation around your boundaries with this phone. And so first things first, we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about what is it about the attention economy and the way that this thing is designed that has changed? What do you need to know?

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Because when you look at the world differently, I think you show up to the world differently. And if you find that you keep thinking, God, I wish I would spend less time on my phone or your kids are like, I wish I spent less time on my phone, but you just can't.

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Like, for example, have you ever deleted TikTok and then you just download YouTube or then you delete YouTube and then you download TikTok again? If you have been the kind of person, have you ever set limits on your apps, right? And then you just tap out of the notification? Guilty. Or if you can't watch TV while not also scrolling on Instagram? I mean, this is something we're all struggling with.

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And you're struggling with it not because you're weak, you're struggling with it because that's a sign that the phone is winning. The phone is winning the game. The phone is changing your brain. The phone is getting you to just step right into the trap so that it can make money on you mindlessly.

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If you can't stand in a line at a grocery store or do chores or take a walk or even go to the bathroom without watching a video or listening to something or reading something on your phone, then you're in the right place. And I just want to ask you five questions, okay? Five questions that reveal the truth that technology has won this round of the game.

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because the way that the phone and social media is engineered and the way that people make money on your attention, it has changed you. So let me ask you these five questions. Number one, is your phone the first thing you reach for every day? Do you ever find yourself checking the same apps over and over and over again for notifications, even though there aren't any?

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And after listening to this, you're going to leave with these huge epiphany. See, there's this quote that I love. Wayne Dwyer said this, when you change the way you look at the world, the world you look at changes. And here's what's going to change today. Number one, you're going to have more time. I'm gonna give you your time back.

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Are you unable to sit, take a walk, do chores, or even exist without consuming content, you know, watching a video, checking a text, looking for something? Does the idea of going somewhere without your phone make you anxious or uncomfortable? And finally, do you find yourself getting to the end of a long day using doom scrolling as just a way to unwind and relax, only to find

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that you feel exhausted, depressed, or empty afterwards? If you answered yes to any of these five questions, this is a sign that the phone and social and big tech has actually won this round of the game. I want to be very clear about something. This isn't your fault. It's not your fault. If you're frustrated like I was frustrated with my family, I'm like, why are you guys always on your phone?

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Look at me when you're talking to me. What's wrong with this generation? If you've ever felt that way, it's not their fault either. It's not your teenager's fault that they're constantly online. They need to be on social media. They're constantly wanting to do something.

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It's not your fault if all you want to be in life is an influencer because that's what you see other people doing online and you see them making money and you see them going on trips. Heck, even your aging parents are now addicted to their phones and their iPads and it's not their fault either. Not at all.

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See, we have all been duped by the big tech programming and the attention economy that we live in. Your phone, social media, the news cycle, everything about the role that technology is playing in your life right now, it has not been designed for an altruistic reason. It has been designed to hijack your brain. It is designed to steal your attention.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh, I'm so glad you are here because today you and I have a great thing to talk about. We're going to talk about the power of your decisions.

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Those dreams that you have, those kind of things that are pulling you toward a bigger future, those things that you think about that never quite disappear, They start to act like this future destination that becomes clearer and clearer, and your intuition and your gut is helping you navigate your way to it.

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Your internal compass, that intuition and gut decision-making that you have within you, it is programmed there for a reason. It uses the exact same scientific principles that explain why a traditional compass works. So for example, a traditional compass has a magnet inside it. And that magnet, what is it doing when it points true north? It's just responding to the magnetic energy of the earth.

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Your compass, your intuition, it works the exact same way as a traditional compass. It reads magnetic energy all around you. I want you to stop and think about this because when you really tune into your intuition, You can feel it pulling you toward things. And you can also immediately feel it pushing you away from people that have bad energy, right?

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You've walked into a room and you immediately feel like the vibe is off with somebody. You're like, ooh, avoid that person. You don't even have to talk to them. That's your intuition. That's your internal compass. See, your compass is constantly reading not only your energy, but all of the energy around you and that is happening in life and with other people.

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And that compass then pulls in all the energy around you and then attunes it to whether or not it's in alignment with you. That's your true north. Or, whoa, there's a person with really awful energy. Let's cross the street. Your intuition is part of this complex, intelligent design system that I want you to trust. I want you to use it. It has been fashioned by your DNA.

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We're also gonna talk about those moments that are different between when you gotta go with your gut versus when do you need to pause and think through how to deal with the decision. especially in those moments when you feel so conflicted. And most importantly today, you're going to learn how to trust yourself.

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It is hardwired in you from your birth. It's been using programming from your life experience, from your gut, from your brain, and from your heart. And all you need to do in order to be more decisive and to start trusting yourself is to learn how it works and to start paying attention to the signals in your own mind, in your own body, and your own spirit.

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Because I'm telling you, the signals are there and they're there all day long. And this is why I also am going to continue to remind you, you already know the best decision for you. you already know the right thing to do. The problem isn't knowing what to do. It's finding the courage to make yourself do it.

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And once you really embrace the truth of what intuition is, and you recognize this intelligent system inside you that has been communicating with you since you were born, you are now going to know what you need to do in any single situation. How freaking cool is that?

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All of the angst, all the negative energy, all of that resistance and overthinking, it's unnecessary because your compass is already telling you that your life is either headed in the wrong direction or it's headed in the right direction. So let's hit pause and give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words with you.

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And while you're listening, share this episode with people that you care about. Anybody in your life that's got a big decision or they overthink everything or they need to learn to trust their gut, this conversation, seriously, it could change your life. All right, you don't go anywhere. I'll be waiting for you after this short break. Stay with me. Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins.

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Today, you and I are digging into the fundamentals about being more decisive, learning how to trust your gut, and being confident in the decisions that you make every day. So let's talk about what does it feel like if you're headed in the wrong direction. When you're headed in the wrong direction in your life, you feel it. You feel stuck. You feel frustrated. You feel sad. You feel disconnected.

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You feel like you're on autopilot. You feel like things are mundane. That's not how you're supposed to feel in your life. That's why I say... Feeling stuck is actually a good thing. It's a signal that you're headed in the wrong direction. It's a signal that your compass is going, ding, ding, ding, wake up. You got to turn towards something new. Ding, ding, ding, you got to feel alive again.

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Ding, ding, ding, this relationship blows. We either got to work on it or you got to get out of here. So being stuck, being frustrated, being disconnected, These are all just signs that your life and the way that you're living it is no longer aligned with where you're supposed to go. It's a directional signal. Isn't that kind of cool? It doesn't mean you're indicted to stay there.

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Our conversation could change the trajectory of your life because I'm going to prove to you, you already know exactly what you should be doing. You've just forgotten how to trust yourself, make the decision and actually do it. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited for the topic today. I'm so excited that you're here with me.

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And now that you understand that you are designed to be moving in a direction that feels true north and in alignment for you, it's super cool to tune into this inner compass and GPS system. And I'm gonna give you a few examples. And these are what I call you just knew it moments. Have you ever had one of those? Of course you have.

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It's one of these split second moments where you just knew it and you didn't question it and you turned and leaned toward what your intuition was telling you. You didn't even really think about it. You just knew. For example, You walk into a train car or into a bar and the first person you lay eyes on, the love of your life. That's what happened to me. It was actually the voice.

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I was standing at a bar in New York City in 1994, and I was ordering a bourbon on the rocks to go. I wanted the bartender to put it in a plastic cup so I could sneak out of the bar. And from behind me, I heard, that sounds great, make it two. And I turned around and laid eyes on Christopher Robbins. I just knew. You know, I've had a couple of these moments in my life where I just...

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knew something was wrong. My intuition, my compass knew before my mind could make sense of it. One example in my life is when our son Oakley was born, he came home from the hospital and everything seemed fine, except for one thing, we couldn't get him to eat. And I just knew something was wrong. And yet my mind couldn't make sense of it.

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I literally kept going back to the pediatrician every single day. Mark, something's wrong. Mark, something's wrong. Mark, something's wrong. I had known him at that point for 11 years. Mark, something's wrong. Something's wrong. I just know it. I just know it. I just know it. We didn't know what was wrong. We didn't know what was wrong.

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And then all of a sudden, five days later, boom, the you-know-what hit the fan, and Oakley is being medevaced downtown to Mass General Brigham Hospital. And they told us they weren't sure he was going to make it. It turned out that he had had Hirschsprung's disease, which is an extraordinarily rare disease impacting the intestines.

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And it had gotten so bad over those six days that he was ready to literally rupture, which would have killed him. He would have died of septic shock. And I just knew something was wrong, even though we didn't even get that diagnosis for another week or two. I'll give you another example. Day one of my job working for a corporate law firm, 1998, I knew it was the wrong job. I knew it.

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I absolutely knew it. I felt in my gut like I was dying as I walked into that law firm every day. But I couldn't make sense of how to actually change my career. I couldn't make sense in my mind how I was gonna pay my bills. I couldn't make sense of what I was gonna do. I had just gone to law school. I had spent three years being a public defender. I can't change my career now.

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So I'm telling you these examples because these are examples where you didn't need to know. You didn't need to make sense of it. Your intuition knew because it always knows because it is uniquely intelligently designed to align with the truth for you. So now that we've covered intuition, I want to briefly talk about this second topic, which is there are two different ways to make decisions.

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And there are going to be times in life where just go with your gut and just make the decision immediately right now. And then there are going to be those times where even though you know what your gut is saying, and the way that you figure that out is just get quiet, drop out of your head, drop into your body and feel good. what the decision feels like.

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If you feel yourself dreading it, if you feel yourself depleted, if you feel yourself shrinking and constricted, that's not aligned with you. If you think about the decision and you imagine the possibility of it and something opens up, you feel slightly energized, even if it scares you a little bit. That's something that's aligned with you. That means it is for you. It feels a certain way.

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And in order to tease this out, because this gets very confusing, I want to talk about those decisions where you feel very conflicted. And when you need to use your gut And when you are going to use your head and your thinking skills to act out the decision, because there's a big difference when you're making a decision between what you need to do versus when and how you're going to do it.

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And that's what you need to remember when you feel very conflicted about the decision. you're going to use your gut to determine what you need to do. Because as we've just laid out, your intuition is part of your intelligent design. Your intuition, when you quiet your emotions and you tune into it, is telling you exactly what you need to do. But that is very different

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First of all, it's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. And if you're a new listener, I just wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so glad you're here. Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode about decision-making and intuition, here's what I know about you.

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than when you're gonna make the decision and how you're gonna tell people. And that's where you use your brain, okay? And I'm gonna give you a just agonizing example of what I'm talking about. And it comes from one of your fellow listeners who wrote to me, and I'm gonna read to you the decision that this person needs to make. I write about this in the Let Them Theory book.

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This is chapter eight, and I love the title of this chapter. Are you ready? The right decision often feels wrong. And that's a really important thing to understand, that there is a difference between the decision that you need to make and how it's going to feel when you tell people the decision. And learning how to separate the decision-making process, which is what is the right thing for me,

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And you made a great decision to be here right now because if you're tired of overthinking everything or doubting yourself or second-guessing every move, if you've ever wanted to learn how to trust your gut and your intuition, you're in the right place right now.

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from the telling the decision to other people process is critical. Because again, I'm going to tell you something, you know the right decision, you're just afraid to make it. And you're afraid to make it because you're worried about what other people are going to think. You're worried about other people's expectations. You're worried about dealing with other people's emotions.

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That's why decision-making is difficult. That's why you're not trusting your gut. It's not about the truth. It's about the aftermath of telling the truth. And that's exactly what our listener was talking about. So this listener writes to me, Mel, I'm engaged and soon to be married. The wedding is a few weeks away, and I know this should be one of the happiest moments of my life, but it's not.

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The closer we get to the wedding, the more my fiance and I are fighting. I can't stop shaking this feeling of dread. Deep down, I'm afraid I'm making a huge mistake. I don't know what to do. The invitations are out. My parents and hers have already put down the deposits for everything. I don't want to disappoint my family. I don't want my parents to lose their money.

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I don't want to break my fiance's heart. I don't want her parents and everyone else we know to be mad at me. How do I call this off? I mean, just reading that question, I mean, can't you feel your heart seize? Of course it's seizing. Because when the stakes are that high, the right answer always feels wrong. I want you to stop and think. If the groom were sitting across from you,

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What would you tell the groom to do? He says, I can't stop shaking this feeling of dread. Deep down, I'm afraid I'm making a huge mistake. Isn't it true that it's so easy to say and to see that on the surface, the answer is actually simple. He should call it off. I mean, if you're dreading the wedding, you're making a mistake. I mean, you know that, I know that.

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I know you're the type of person who not only values your time, but you're also interested in learning how to trust yourself, how to trust your intuition, and how to be more decisive and confident in the decisions that you're making every single day. And I love that. And if you're listening to this because somebody sent this to you, here's what I want to point out to you.

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If you can't stop thinking about calling it off, then you should. But here's why decision-making is hard. Even when the right decision seems clear, it doesn't always mean it's an easy decision to make. Why? Well, that's because the human experience is largely an emotional one.

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And what seems logical when you drop into your gut and you imagine, because here's how you would use your inner compass, right? I think about these moments where you feel conflicted, like driving through a blinding rainstorm. The GPS is on, but because of the rainstorm, you can't see more than 20 feet ahead of you. But you trust the GPS, don't you? Of course you do.

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And so you just keep moving forward through the storm. Your emotions are the storm. And what happens for all of us, it happens for me. I mean, my God, the emotion is what has kept me in relationships too long. It's kept me from apologizing or owning up to my behavior. It's kept me from making decisions that work for me because I'm afraid I'm gonna upset other people.

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Emotions, the storms that you feel as you're following your own GPS, those are gonna be there. You have to learn how to navigate through them. See, too often in life, when you're in this kind of dilemma, you choose to inflict pain on yourself instead of making a decision that you know is the right one for you, but it might be painful for other people to accept.

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I mean, let's be honest with each other. The groom who wrote in He already knows what he needs to do. See, I think anytime anybody writes and asks for advice on what decision to make, you know what decision you need to make. You're not actually asking for help making a decision. What you're asking for is courage. You're asking for reassurance.

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You're asking for help in handling the emotions and the guilt and the dread that you feel, knowing that the decision that you need to make is gonna hurt other people or it's gonna turn your life upside down or it's gonna lead to something that could be exciting, but it could also not work.

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And what I want you to understand is agonizing and questioning a difficult decision like this, that's a mentally healthy response to a difficult situation. There's nothing easy about this situation. Nobody takes pleasure in making a hard decision. I mean, the fact that this guy is worried about the other people is a sign that he's a really good person.

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That doesn't mean he should get married to somebody he doesn't want to marry. And I want to remind you, there are going to be times in your life when people are going to be mad or disappointed or heartbroken by the things that you say or do and the decisions that you make. There just will be.

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And that's why understanding that there's a difference between what you need to do and how and when you do it, that's the art of decision-making. This is a great moment to hit pause and give our sponsors a chance to share a few words. I also want to give you a chance to share this with people that you care about. Being decisive is a skill.

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First of all, I think it's really cool that somebody sent this to you. Because it probably means that you have a big decision that you need to make and maybe you're grappling with it. Or maybe you're just the kind of person that overthinks everything and you're sick of it and you'd love to be more confident and decisive in your life.

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Learning how to listen to your intuition is something we all need to do. And sharing this episode with people that you care about could absolutely change the trajectory of their life. So thank you for taking the time to do that. Don't go anywhere. We have so much more to talk about and we're gonna jump right back into it after this short break. So stay with me. Welcome back.

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It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I'm so thrilled you are still here listening and learning about the skill of decision-making. As I always say, you are one decision away from a different life. And taking the time to share this with somebody that you care about is a decision that you made that will change someone else's life. So thank you for doing that.

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Now, one thing I want to say about the difference between decisions where you're just going to go for it and trust your gut and those decisions where you're going to hit the pause button, you're going to travel upstairs, and you're going to use your brain to make a plan is that this is super important.

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And the reason why this is important is because there's a lot of research about how your emotions impact your decision-making in really negative ways. You know, I'm looking at some studies here that I wanted to talk to you about. There's very interesting research from neuroscientists, of course, about the various parts of the brain that you use and the different ways that people make decisions.

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But that gets so complicated that I'm just trying to boil it down for you in simple terms so you can actually walk away from this conversation and apply everything you're learning. And so if you look at what we've discussed so far, which is why you should trust your

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your intuition and your intelligent design in gut decision-making, it is important for you to understand that you have to settle your emotions first. Because what's interesting is that there's very, very clear research that your brain weighs your emotional state when it's weighing whether or not a decision is a good one or bad one.

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And this is important to understand because when you're stressed out or fearful, research shows you just choose the path of least resistance. You do what you've always done. You avoid the decision. And you and I have both done that. How many times have you put off quitting a job or having the conversation or, heck, even going to the gym because you feel sad or you feel too stressed out to go?

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That's an example of how your emotions are impacting decisions in the moment. It's helpful for me to think about the fact that I know the truth of what I need to do in my gut, My emotions have a point of view about whether or not I feel like doing it. We're just gonna ignore that. And you can ladder up to your brain to help you make a plan. And I wanna remind you,

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Making no decision is a decision because you're deciding to stay exactly where you are and ignore what your intuition is telling you. You're deciding to accept less than you deserve and delay making the changes that will bring you happiness and more satisfaction in your life. Those are decisions, and you need to wake up and recognize that you're making them. Just imagine yourself a year from now.

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Well, that's exactly what you're going to get by listening to this or watching this episode today. You're going to learn about the science of decision-making. You're going to learn about intuition. You're going to feel and become more decisive about I want that for you. I love that people in your life care about you enough to send this to you. That is so cool.

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You're in the marriage. You're in the job. You still live in the same place. You haven't moved mom to the nursing home. You are still paying for your adult kid, even though nothing's changed and you resent him for it. When you close your eyes and you drop into your gut and you really read the navigation, if I point myself toward a future where I do nothing, oh my God, how do you feel?

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If you feel your chest tighten, if you feel dread, if you feel your energy drain, oh my God, do not go in that direction. Do not get married. Do not avoid the decision with your mom in a nursing home. Do not stay in med school.

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Do not avoid applying for nursing school this go around because a year from now, you know that your chest is tightening and you feel depleted if you're not in school and then point yourself in the other direction a year from now.

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If you're not married, if you dropped out of medical school, if you are in nursing school, if you stopped financing your adult kid's life and they got their act together, how do you feel now? If you started that YouTube channel today, if you started marketing your business, if you ended the relationship, how do you feel now?

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And if you all of a sudden feel things open up and you feel expansion and you feel a little bit of energy, even if it scares you, that is true north. That's what aligns with you. That's what you need to do. Now we travel upstairs as the gut chit-chats to the brain and we ask ourselves, okay, I know what I need to do. When is the right time to make this decision?

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How is the right way to communicate this decision and to whom? And then you make a plan and that's what you use your brain for. See, in life, the most courageous, honorable, and kind thing to do is to tell someone when you realize you don't want to be with them. It's hard to be honest, especially when it's going to hurt other people.

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You know, the let them theory has really helped me change this in myself. I used to either avoid conversations or over-explain everything or like overthink things or delay the decisions I needed to make because I was afraid someone would get upset with me or they think I was a bad person. And all it did was create more anxiety for me.

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Learning to let them be upset, let them be confused by your decision, let them react to your decision. Don't be afraid of what people are going to think. when you make the right decision for you. This has been all life-altering. And I promise you, you're going to experience that power too. I don't think you have a problem knowing what you need to do.

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Because today I'm going to teach you a very simple framework that I had to develop for myself in order to stop being so damn indecisive. I know, I know, today I'm probably one of the most decisive people you'll ever meet. But I've learned that as a skill. I've had to learn how to trust my gut full stop. I wasn't always this way.

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I think you have a problem doing what you need to do because you feel a ton of conflict about how someone else is going to feel about it.

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And when you realize that you can navigate those kinds of storms by following your GPS and then using your brain to figure out the best way to communicate the decision, the best timing and the most responsible timing to do it, like quitting your job, don't just do that immediately.

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You need to use your brain to make a plan and make sure you have enough money and that you don't put yourself in a precarious situation. But you can know three to six months before you leave a job that you're actually leaving it. That's what you do with your intuition. What you do with your brain is to create a really smart plan to actually execute against it in a responsible and empowering way.

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See, the only conflict that you're gonna feel now that you understand the power of how to make the right decision is that you're gonna feel conflict internally about how your decision impacts other people and how they're gonna react. This is why you stay in a marriage for a decade when you know you want it to end. This is why people stay in jobs for too long.

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It's why people pick majors and career paths and then stay in them because they're afraid of making a decision that is gonna cause someone else to feel something. And if you understand that emotions are a normal part of your life, You're going to feel them. Other adults are going to feel the ups and downs. You can be more courageous. I don't want you making decisions with your emotions.

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I want you to make decisions based on the truth of your intuition, what feels aligned with you and the vision that you have for your life and the magnetic energy that pulls you towards it. And I want you to use your brain to make a plan for how to execute the decision in the most responsible and powerful way.

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When you do that, you will be one of the most decisive and powerful and unstoppable people on the fricking planet. That's how you use this science. And none of this is easy. I mean, there are plenty of decisions that have been difficult for me to make in my life that I've delayed six months, a year, two months.

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Heck, when our son wanted to move to Southern Vermont, my husband and our son moved up here for a year. I didn't go. I knew eventually that I would, but I wasn't ready. The when and the how for me took almost a year and that's okay. And so there are going to be decisions that you make immediately when this episode is over.

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And then there are going to be those decisions that you're like, I know that what Mel's saying is right and I know what my gut is telling me. And perhaps for the first time in my life, I understand why I need to trust it. And I also am going to take a little pressure off because this is the kind of decision that needs some planning. And that's what I'm going to use my brain to do.

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And when you understand decision-making in this context, that there's a difference between what you need to do and how and when you do it, now you can leverage the full capacity of your gut, your heart, and your mind to align your life with what's meant for you, no matter how hard it is. And that brings me to the final point.

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I think one of the biggest obstacles to being more decisive in life is this fear that you're going to make the wrong decision. What if you trusted yourself enough to be able to handle the fallout of any decision that you made?

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What if instead of fearing that you're going to make the wrong decision, you accepted the science of how intuition and how your internal GPS is helping you navigate, and you started to tune into what you know to be true? And you just separated the truth from how and when you plan and you execute those decisions. You take a little bit of the pressure off, but you really triple down on the truth.

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I mean, being decisive, learning how to trust your intuition, it's a skill. And today, I'm going to teach you the tricks, the tools, the frameworks that I've used in order to become more confident in my decisions.

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Because it's easy to say, I don't know how to trust my gut. I don't know how to listen to my intuition. I don't think that's true. I think you know exactly what your intuition is telling you. You just ignore it. And our conversation today is an invitation to really change the way you even talk about that. I know exactly what my intuition is telling me.

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I know exactly what my gut is telling me to do. I know exactly what the decision is. I'm just afraid to make it. I know exactly what I should do. I know when things feel off. I can read the energy of things. I know when I'm at a job or in a relationship or in a friend group or living in a place where it just starts to feel off and I know I need to trust it.

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I'm working on how quickly I pivot and execute on that truth. When you look at decision-making that way, that it's all just data, that what you can sense is what's true for you,

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And that even if you make a decision to get married or to change your careers or to move or to take on a new hobby or do whatever it is that you're going to do, when you make that decision and you truly believe that this is the right decision in the moment, it's never going to be the wrong decision if you also say, no matter what, I trust in my ability to handle what comes next.

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Like, let's just take the example of me and the job. When I made the decision to get that job, it felt like the right decision because I needed to pay my bills. And this was the first job offer that I had gotten when we had moved from New York City to Boston in 1998. So I was thrilled. It was the right decision because I needed to pay my bills.

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And I want to preview for you what we're going to cover today because there are four specific topics that I've broken this into that are going to truly help you learn how to trust your gut and become more decisive. So first, we're going to cover the topic of intuition. What is it? How does it work? Why should you trust it? And honestly, I love this topic because the science here is fascinating.

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But when I walked into that office for the very first day in that high rise on High Street in downtown Boston, I knew in my gut, oh boy, not the place for me. Do you see the power in telling yourself that there are no wrong decisions because every decision leads you somewhere else? I needed the money. And I also knew that I wasn't going to stay there for the rest of my life.

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And that's the directional signal that I needed for my internal navigation system, my intuition, my gut, to help me recognize I'm at a fork in the road. And for me personally, I sat at that fork for another year. That's okay. And then I executed the plan to change my career entirely. So was that a wrong decision? Was it a bad decision? Did I fail? I don't think so.

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Just like a lot of the decisions that you've made, whether it's decisions to stay too long in a relationship, decisions not to change your marriage, decisions to move, to not move, all of those things are just data.

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Maybe you're the kind of person that has needed a lot of pain and frustration and struggle to finally wake the hell up and recognize that it's a lot easier to listen to what your gut is telling you than to ignore it. So all of those things that you think you may be screwed up, maybe it just led you right here.

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It led you and gave you exactly what you needed so that you could listen to this podcast episode today and say, you know what? Mel's right. I do know what's right for me. I do know what my gut is telling me. And what I'm going to work on is the courage to trust it, to not only trust the decision, but to trust in myself and my ability to move through whatever happens when I make it.

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When you look at decision-making that way, you're not only gonna be able to trust yourself faster and quicker and be more decisive, you're gonna feel more confident because you're gonna know whatever comes in the wake of that decision, you, my friend, are gonna be okay. In fact, this conversation today, it's made me decide I'm going to do this thing.

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I've been thinking about it and thinking about it and writing out the pros and cons on paper and talking to people and weighing it, not weighing it, stressing out about it. But based on everything we've talked about, it's pretty easy for me to cut through the negativity and the emotion and the fear and see that I actually do want to do this thing.

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And even if it doesn't work, I feel confident that I'm going to be proud of myself, that I actually made the decision and I did it. I hope our conversation gave you the clarity and the tools and the frameworks that you need to cut through the emotion, to drop into your intelligent design, to figure out what the right next move is for you.

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and then recognize that there's so much value in traveling up to your brain and making a plan for how you're going to execute this decision when it's going to become a reality. When you do that, I promise you, there are absolutely no bad decisions because you are aligning what you do with what is true for you. And only you know what the right thing is for you

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Because you now know that you're going to feel it. Alrighty, I can't wait to hear what you do with this and what decisions you make. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your power to create a better life.

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for real, because now you know how to be more decisive, how to trust your gut, how to follow your intuition, and how to unlock the courage to move your life in the direction that is meant for you. I'll see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. Okay, great. Here we go. Okay, great. All right, ready?

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The one thing that I didn't do, now that I understand the intuition, is I didn't, I, the one thing I, okay, I'll say, okay. Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. Okay, here we go. We should put a piece of tape. Oh, baby, I love the swivel. Okay, excuse me. Sorry. Let me just look for my paint. I just want to read this real quick so I know where I'm going. Sorry, guys.

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And it's also going to help you trust what your gut and intuition is saying when you understand how it works.

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Oh my God, this is so good. Oh my God, it's so true. Okay, great. Great, great, great. Okay, great. See, I actually hate the term make a gut decision because... Hold on a second. There we go. You're welcome. All right, let's eat something real quick. Thank you, guys. I loved it. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

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You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Stitcher.

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Second topic we're going to cover is understanding the difference between moments where make the gut decision, follow your intuition, don't even second guess it, versus those moments where you should pause and think through the pros and the cons and the implications of a decision before you just make it.

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See, I believe you're one decision away from a different life, and we're going to talk about how to leverage the power of your decisions to create a better life. See, today, I am probably one of the most decisive people you'll ever meet, but I wasn't always this way. The old Mel Robbins, I used to overthink everything. I would second guess myself all the time.

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The third topic we're going to cover is moments where you have a decision to make, but you feel conflicted. I'm talking breakups, leaving jobs, telling the truth, owning up to what you've done wrong. Talk about conflicted. Oh my gosh.

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You know, for those moments in life, you need a framework that anchors you and holds your hand and helps you unlock the courage that you're gonna need in order to do the right thing and follow through with the decision that you know you need to make. And finally, I'm gonna teach you one of the most important things I've ever learned.

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There are no bad decisions when you understand the power of the decisions that you make. See, part of making a decision is trusting your ability to handle whatever comes with it. That's why I believe you're one decision away from a better life. Because a decision turns your life in a different direction. And you know this. You've felt the power that a single decision can make in your life.

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In fact, I want you to think back to some of the decisions that you've made in your life that changed your life and pointed you in a whole new direction. I mean, maybe you decided to go to college far away from where you grew up and that experience completely changed who you are. It changed perhaps where you lived for the rest of your life. That happened to me.

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Maybe going to one party on a random Thursday, your gut just said, I should just get out of the house and go. You walked in the door, you met the love of your life. That's a decision that changed your life. Maybe quitting that job that used to drain you. Quitting it, that decision led you to find your dream career. You wouldn't be there without quitting that other job.

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Maybe going gluten-free or giving up alcohol or quitting your vaping habit completely changed your health. I mean, every single day, just stop and think about this. You make thousands of decisions. So do I. Some studies estimate that you make up to 35,000 of them. That's kind of incredible, isn't it? Just consider one decision, that you make today has the potential to change the rest of your life.

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But when you don't know how to trust yourself, Here's what happens. You question every decision and that can make you stay stuck in the same patterns, in the same place and around the same types of people for decades. I mean, you're literally putting the potential for your life, that beautiful future that you want to build for yourself on hold when you question the decisions you need to make.

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So before you and I jump into the four things that you're going to learn today about intuition and the difference between thinking through a decision and going with your gut and what to do when you feel conflicted, I want you to take a moment and I want you to get selfish. You're listening to this for a reason. So think about a decision that you may be grappling with right now. Go ahead.

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Just think about it. What's a decision that you're overthinking or that you're avoiding or that you're questioning? Maybe it's whether you should move out of your apartment with your roommates and live on your own for the very first time. Or maybe you're questioning whether or not you should divorce your spouse of 20 plus years.

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Maybe you're wondering if now's the time to get a pet now that the kids have moved out of the house, but do you want to be tied down? Is that what you really want? I don't know. Are you questioning whether you should go back to grad school to become a therapist or a nurse because that's what you've always wanted to do? Or maybe you've been thinking about a decision.

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And even when I knew in my gut what I should do, you know, those moments when you just know, I would always second guess myself or I just wouldn't listen to it. See, I've learned how to be confident as a decision maker. It's a skill and it's a skill that I'm going to help you learn today.

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You really want to put yourself out there in a bigger way by becoming an influencer or starting a YouTube channel. Or maybe you want to be using social media, not for your personal life, but to market your business. But when you really think about putting yourself out there, you're like, I don't know. You just start to doubt yourself. And next thing you know, you're not doing anything.

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Really think about this. What's a decision that you've been really considering and thinking about and questioning and maybe putting off? Are you thinking about moving? Maybe you're frustrated and so you want to get more involved in politics or just be more vocal about your opinion.

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Have you been thinking about reaching out to someone in your family that you're kind of estranged from or angry with and you've been putting it off? That's a decision to put it off or to pick up the phone. Just really hold on to that.

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Because as you and I go through each of the four things that we're gonna talk about today, I want you to hold on to this decision and use what you're learning to help you be decisive. And here's the thing about this topic. I'm so fired up to talk about this.

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And I'm so excited that you're interested in this because learning how to trust yourself, learning how to become more decisive, learning how to assure yourself that no matter what decision that you make, if you have the courage to make a decision, you're going to be okay.

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Holy cow, this is the key to everything because every decision you make is like this little fork in the road where you get to choose, am I staying the same or am I going to lead myself to a better future? I mean, remember, your friend Mel Robbins says nobody's coming. Every single decision opens the door to a different possibility.

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And I want you to really think about the power of every decision you make. I mean, every day you decide, am I going to wake up an hour earlier like I said I would and get myself to the gym or not? Should I have that cookie at work or not? What movie should I watch tonight? What should I have for dinner? What outfit should I wear to work? What shoes? Now, look, it may seem silly.

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You're like, oh, for God's sake, Mel, come on. It's not silly at all. Everything, I mean everything about where you are in your life right now, every aspect of your life is in large part a result of your past decisions. And more importantly, this is what I want you to really consider.

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Who you're going to be in the future, every aspect of who you become, from how much money you have, to what your relationships are like, to what your friend groups are like, to what your health is like, how you spend your days, is 100% a result of the decisions you make today. That's how powerful your decisions are.

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So whether you're struggling with a decision that's pretty big right now, whether you're thinking about ending a relationship or changing careers, or maybe there's something smaller, you're chronically giving up on yourself because you can never make the decision to go to the gym or you're constantly hitting the snooze button, which is also a decision, by the way.

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If you want to be the kind of person that's healthy, you need to make decisions that a If you wanna be the kind of person who has a lot of money, starting today, you gotta make the kind of decisions that a person who's financially responsible makes.

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If you wanna be the kind of person that owns their own business or has a better friend group or sells their art, starting today, you, through the power of your decisions, can become that person. Every single choice you make has power. I just love this topic. But here's the thing, though. Right now, you're probably like I used to be. You're not even aware of the decisions that you're making.

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You're just sort of like on autopilot. That's how I was. I was making decisions without even understanding how your brain and your body and your nervous system processes the options that are in front of you all day long. And if you're on autopilot like I used to be, oh, hit the snooze button, just shove this in my mouth, just go to work and complain about my job.

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Oh my gosh, what happens is your decisions just run on repeat and then past decisions dictate your present and future. I'm going to give you an example. Let's say deep in your gut, you've been saying, I got to quit vaping. I've just got to quit vaping. Every day, all day long, you actually have a decision to make. Are you going to just throw that vape out and all the cartridges and go cold turkey?

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Or are you going to say to yourself, well, you know, I've tried to quit before and it's never really worked. And so then you make a decision. I'm just going to reach for the babe again and take a puff and I'll do that tomorrow. That's a decision. Anybody who's gotten sober or ended a relationship or quit a job or turn their life around will tell you that one decision will change your life.

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That's what we're talking about today. Aren't you tired of holding yourself back? Aren't you tired of doubting yourself? Don't you want to be more decisive? Isn't it exhausting to constantly question yourself? Don't you want to trust your intuition and your gut and know that no matter what, you're going to be okay? Of course you do. That's why you're listening to this right now.

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And so congratulations, because you've already proven you can make great decisions. You press play. You made a decision to find the time to be here today to learn more about how to be more decisive. That's so freaking cool. So whatever it is that you've been putting off or questioning, just keep it front and center as we go step by step through the four things that I'm gonna teach you today.

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And I'm gonna share a little bit with you. Just quickly, I have a decision that I'm noodling right now. And it's a big decision about something related to my business. It seems like a great opportunity, but I don't know that I want to do the opportunity. So I'm right there with you. I've got this thing. I'm at a fork in the road. There are pros, there are cons.

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I'm questioning, I'm doubting, I'm overthinking. And so I'm going to be using this framework too. And I want you to keep your decision right in mind. Be selfish as hell today, okay? Are you breaking up? Are you putting yourself back out there? Are you moving? Are you signing up for that art class? Are you changing your major? Are you going to finally have that conversation?

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Whatever decision it is that you need the courage to make, today, I'm gonna give you the same simple framework that I use, especially when I feel conflicted about the decision or I can't seem to make it. See, we're gonna talk about a number of things today. We're gonna talk about intuition, what it is, how it works. The science is so fascinating.

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Are you going to dust off your resume and actually do what you said you were going to do? Are you going to go find the funding for it? What are you doing? Keep it front and center. Because you and I are gonna walk through a step-by-step approach that is going to move your life forward and put an end to the standstill that you've trapped yourself in. All right, so let's talk about intuition.

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For a long time, I didn't actually understand the physiology, the neurology, the science of how your mind, body, nervous system is all connected and how it is your intuition. It's like this inner compass, this intelligent design that you were born with that is in place in your body and that works in such magnificent ways. And it is there to help you navigate your day-to-day decisions.

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It is there just like a GPS helping you make the right and left turns all day long. And if you understand what your intuition is, what a gut decision is, what it's trying to do, how it's trying to help you, holy cow, Tapping into your intuition as a decision-making tool, it's going to help you stay connected to your big dreams. It's going to help you stay grounded in your values.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Now, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but the Surgeon General, who is basically America's doctor, just put out an advisory saying, alcohol is the leading preventable cause of cancer, and that all alcoholic drinks should have a cancer warning label on them, just like cigarettes do. Wow.

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Is this something that you're seeing happening increase at a younger and younger age?

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Wow.

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And by the way, if you're someone who hit play because someone that you love shared this episode with you, that's a beautiful thing. Because our expert today is world renowned. And so the person that shared this episode with you, they wanted you to have the benefit of of being able to learn from her.

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We're learning so much about the importance of healthy gut. How does alcohol impact that?

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And that's just amazing because today's episode is going to help you understand what alcohol does to your body, brain, and health. And what you're about to learn, it could change your life or the life of somebody that you care about. So I just want to thank you. Thank you for listening to this. Thank you for sharing this.

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Yeah, you know, I love the fact that you are a specialist in addiction and you have a very realistic approach because I do agree with you that it does feel like it's either you're all in or you're all out. And I think for a lot of people, it is scary to feel like there's only one option, which is you either drink or you don't.

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And for many people, not drinking at all is the absolute empowering option. But I love what you're saying, which is you need to wake up and understand what your motivators are and what you actually care about in this moment in your life. And if you care about producing more at work or being more present or reaching your potential, you got to look at the role that alcohol is playing in your life.

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Yeah. So from a medical perspective, how much drinking is too much drinking?

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I'm just sitting here thinking about you as a physician and a researcher and how I think a lot of us lie to our doctors about how much we're actually drinking and that we're not even aware of what the serving size truly is because when a lot of people make a cocktail at home, it's like glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, and there's three shots right there.

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Or you've had a number of big glasses of wine, which basically mean you have had all seven glasses of wine in one night and thinking, oh, oh, I've just had a couple glasses. But I bet as you are seeing somebody get a scan, there's probably times where you're like, yeah, that's somebody that is a very heavy drinker because I can see it on the brain.

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Now, there's a couple of reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you today. First of all, For me personally, I have been thinking a lot about my relationship with alcohol. In fact, I've been thinking about it for years. And one of the reasons why it's been on my mind is because my husband, Chris, he basically doesn't drink.

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When you sit with somebody that comes into your practice, how do you help them figure out their relationship with alcohol? What are a list of symptoms

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I mean, he'll occasionally have a bourbon on the rocks, but that's it. But for me, alcohol has been a huge part of my life socially for as long as I can remember. And even though I've been cutting back, it's become just a way that I turn my brain off after work. And here's the thing. I'm a super conscientious and healthy person. So on one hand, I don't do a lot of, quote, bad things.

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That was so helpful. And one of the things that really resonated with me is that you've tried to quit. You drink more than you want. You feel anxious and yet you continue to do it. And you're in this cycle of wishing you could get control over this and yet feeling like you can't.

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And yet, if you aren't stumbling around at night or you feel like I am able to carry on a conversation, I'm not getting behind the wheel of a car, there's this assumption that it is under control, but I love how you just defined it because you're making us really look at ourselves and ask ourselves the honest question, which is it really?

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And even just that question, are you drinking more than you want to be drinking? If you answer that question honestly, and whether you're listening right now for yourself or you're listening for somebody that you love that you're concerned about, this is an amazing starting point because we're not bickering about how much you're drinking. We're not bickering about your behavior.

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We're really talking about the honest answer to what is your relationship to it and do you actually have control over your ability to use it or not use it? And that is powerful. Now, Dr. Wakeman, where I want to pivot to next is I'm starting to see this picture where as a researcher and a renowned expert on this topic that you are talking about kind of the big risks that can happen.

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I want to focus a little bit on amplifying the day-to-day impact that most of us are not present to. Yeah. That we reach for the alcohol at night because at least in my own experience, it's like an easy lever to pull to say to my brain, we're no longer working. This is the thing that I do as my ritual to move into the evening, to have a glass of wine.

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But we don't really understand what's happening and how it's actually impacting your experience of your life day to day. I wanna take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors. And I also wanna remind you that if you're worried about somebody, send them this episode right now as you're listening to our sponsors, because oftentimes they can't hear it from you.

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But hearing it from somebody like Dr. Wakeman, who has such a balanced approach and is a renowned expert on this topic, it might actually just be the thing that gets somebody to wake up and want to do better. So I'll be waiting for you after a short word from our sponsors. Thank you for sharing this with anybody who needs to hear it. And I'll see you right after the break.

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Welcome back, I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm so glad you're here. Thank you, thank you for sharing this episode with absolutely anybody in your life that you believe needs to hear this. You and I are spending time today with Harvard's Dr. Sarah Wakeman. So Dr. Wakeman, can you explain to us

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What are some of the other day-to-day things that people experience when they drink that they might not realize is related to drinking?

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What are some of the benefits that you would experience almost immediately if you quit drinking entirely or you cut way back? What kind of health benefit would you experience in your day-to-day life?

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I don't have a lot of bad habits. So I've kind of given myself a little bit of slack when it comes to alcohol because I'm like, God, you don't really do a lot of bad things, Mel. So what's the big deal? But on the other hand, I'm like, if you care about longevity and your health and you care about your brain, Mel, why are you not cutting back? Maybe you're thinking these same things too.

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How does alcohol impact the range of women's hormones from estrogen to progesterone to like all of it? How does it impact your hormones?

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Can you walk us through what's happening in your body in terms of what we call a hangover? So you've had your night out. You've had... bit of alcohol, right? And you wake up, what is a hangover and what is actually happening in the body as you withdraw from the alcohol?

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Another reason why I wanted to have this conversation is Sober Curious is on the rise. Every single year, more and more people participate in Dry January, or at least they talk about doing it.

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Does alcohol impact cortisol or any of the other kind of hormones that are in your brain that are playing a part in anxiety?

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But the truth is, as much as I may be kind of kidding around a little bit, alcohol, your relationship to alcohol, what it actually does to your brain, your body, your health, it's not really something to joke about. Because I think we all know it's not good for you. But it just is fun and it tastes good and it's a great stress reliever and it's always a part of every celebration.

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wow, when you really stop and think about the roller coaster you're putting your brain and your hormones and your body through, it does make you pause. And that's what I wanted to do with this conversation is to make you stop and think about what's actually happening and the reasons why you reach for it.

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Can you talk a little bit about for anybody that's taking prescription drugs for anxiety or depression, the impact that alcohol can have?

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So if you've ever felt curious about cutting back or you've been worried about someone you love and they're drinking, this episode today, it's for you. Because today, one of the world's most renowned medical experts on how alcohol impacts your body, brain, and health is here in our Boston studios. And here's what I love about her. She is brilliant. She's a researcher. She treats patients.

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What do you see when you look at a brain where somebody's been a heavy drinker versus somebody that's occasional or very light?

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We have so many listeners around the world who flooded us with questions when we told them that you were gonna be here. And a lot of them are about how to deal with somebody that they love. And they're drinking.

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And so I really wanna hear your advice about what specific things you should do and what mistakes we need to avoid when there's somebody in our lives that we're concerned about. Like, how do you approach this? What's the best way to bring it up? What is the worst? And by the way, I wanna remind you,

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And even as I was talking about the fact that we were going to be having a conversation about this today with our team, you know, somebody said, yeah, and it helps you sleep. And I was like, yeah, it kind of knocks you out, but does it help you sleep? The other reason why I want to talk about it is because the subject of alcohol and your health, it is all over the news right now.

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that if you're thinking about somebody in your life, while the sponsors are talking to you, please share this episode. Let Dr. Wakeman talk to your loved one. It could be a life-changing gift for them to hear this. So thank you in advance for being generous with sharing this with people that you love. And I'll be waiting for you with Dr. Wakeman after a short break. Welcome back.

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I'm Mel Robbins, and you and I are here today with Harvard's Dr. Sarah Wakeman. Dr. Wakeman, I'd love to get your counsel on what you would recommend to somebody if your spouse doesn't think they have a drinking problem, but it's a problem for you.

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Here in the United States, the Surgeon General, who is basically America's doctor, just put out this advisory report. It has this warning, and in it, he says, alcohol is the leading preventable cause of cancer. And you want to know something? I had spent 55 years of my life not knowing that there was a link between alcohol and cancer. How did I not know that?

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What is the mistake that you see people making?

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I want to kind of just hover on this point that if somebody's reaching for alcohol and it's become a coping mechanism for dealing with stress or dealing with like a health issue or mental health issue or whatever insecurity, it's terrifying to give up the coping mechanism.

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And what do you see when it comes to that psychology of you're somebody whose family is like, you have a problem and we're worried about you. And yet it keeps on going. Like how does shame or that fear that you have of, well, I can't actually do this. get through if I don't have the alcohol or I, it's just easier. And what's the problem with having a glass of wine or two a night?

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That's probably why the Surgeon General is now talking about it. In fact, the Surgeon General says that all alcoholic drinks based on the research should have a cancer label warning on them, just like cigarettes do. And so now, of course, that the report is out, everybody is talking about, every news organization is writing about.

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I think it's very refreshing because so much that you listen to on this topic is don't drink. And I kind of expected Dr. Wakeman, you to come in here and just take your fist and slam it on the counter and talk about the lives ruined from alcohol. And, you know, you might have that experience in your family as you're listening to us. But what she's saying is.

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You have to understand how somebody is feeling and what's actually gonna work to get them to want to see that something else is possible for them. So Dr. Wakeman, I have another question for you. A lot of parents writing in about college age kids and binge drinking and 20 somethings. that are also drinking too much. Do you have any like scripts or lead in sentences to even broach this topic?

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Because I feel like most of us don't know how to even bring it up.

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Alcohol is in the family. Like, this is a thing that's really triggering for all of us. Is there a way to break down the conversation just so that the person listening can take from us or, you know, take from this conversation? All right, I'm going to express my feelings. Then I'm going to ask them about theirs because most people get really defensive when you talk about this.

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This warning from the Surgeon General, holy cow, it has struck a nerve everywhere, and it's taking the internet by storm. If you haven't seen the articles that are flying all over the place, well, you're going to now. And the articles have titles like this, I like to drink, Do I have to feel bad about alcohol now? How much alcohol does it take to raise your cancer risk?

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And then that just shuts down the conversation. Totally.

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How do you help them figure out their why as it relates to their relationship with alcohol?

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Well, it's great advice because I feel like so many of us have had that experience where you go to a big wedding and you're like, that's it. I'm never drinking again. I can't do this to myself. And three days later, you're going out for somebody's engagement and now you're like, ah, I should just have a glass of wine and you're back in it.

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And so I think getting very clear about what are your goals. And I'm willing to bet if you write down your goals that you're going to see that alcohol is not helping any of them.

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Alcohol warnings won't make me quit, but a little moderation wouldn't hurt. Those kind of hit home, don't they? Don't you want the answers to those questions? We're going to talk about all of it today. And on a more personal note, you know, I've already shared this, but one of my own goals this year is to drink less. And what do I mean by that? What I mean is I don't want to drink during the week.

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If you quit drinking and you don't feel supported by your family or your partner or friends, what advice do you have for people to navigate that?

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I thought I knew a lot about this topic and it just goes to show you there is always something new you can learn. So I have another question, Dr. Wakeman. What is your message to someone who is struggling with their relationship to alcohol?

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And for the person who had this conversation shared with them from a family member who's probably concerned about their drinking, what is your message to that person?

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Well, Dr. Sarah Wakeman, thank you so much for being here with us today. Thank you for the work that you're doing. You really are changing and saving people's lives. And we appreciate how much wisdom you poured into us.

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And I want to also just make sure that you listening that in case nobody else tells you that I tell you that I love you and I believe in you. I'll talk to you in a few days. Yeah. Okay, great. Here we go. All right. Coach is Tracy. Great. That's perfect. Thank you. That's okay. Hydrate, baby. It's true, but it makes you think, doesn't it?

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Like on the weekends, that's fine. But during the week, I got to stop reaching for a gin and tonic or tequila on the rocks or a glass of wine when work ends as a way to turn off my brain. So let me ask you a quick question. Before I tell you about Dr. Wakeman, I want you to consider this. Think about your relationship to alcohol. Do you think you may be drinking a little too much?

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Oh, I'm like, I do not remember what the hell is going on today. What is happening? I don't know what's going on over here. In the garbage. Goodbye. Look how emotionally agile I am. What I want you to really, he, okay, hold on. What was I going, where was I going with that? Um, Dr. Wakeman, can you tell me about the race? Lordy. I didn't. So, okay. Is that, is that okay? Okay. Holy cow. Awesome.

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

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I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

What Happens to Your Body and Mind When You Stop Drinking Alcohol

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Have you ever thought about cutting back? Because I know you're listening to this because you're interested in understanding more about how alcohol impacts your body, your brain, and your health. And so I really want you to think about yourself and your goals and your life. And here's a question I'm gonna ask you to consider as you're listening to Dr. Wakeman.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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For years, one of the reasons why I didn't cut back on my drinking is because I always felt like I was gonna miss out on something by not drinking. Now I'm wondering, what am I missing out on because I am drinking? Just stop and consider that. What are you missing out on because of your drinking? A better night's sleep? More focus? Being more energized and present in your life? Feeling better?

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Getting better results? Achieving your goals? Maybe that's what we're all missing out on. And that's exactly what Dr. Sarah Wakeman is gonna tell you. And you're gonna love her. She's gonna give you the science. So you can make the call for yourself about you and your relationship to alcohol.

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And having the facts about how alcohol impacts your health, your body, and your brain, that's what's gonna empower you. And look, I thought about, you know, why don't I just have a brand new conversation on the podcast today in light of what the Surgeon General said? And then I thought, well, wait a minute.

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Last year, Dr. Sarah Wakeman was here, and that conversation was life-altering, not only for me, but for the millions of you that listened to it. I started drinking a lot less and now I feel so much better. And even though I drink less, I'm wondering, should I cut back even more? And I'll tell you what, as I consider that question, what am I missing out on because of the drinking?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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She's practical and zero judgment. She is here to share the science and to help you make the best decisions for your health. So whether you're questioning your own drinking habits like I am, or you're worried about someone you love, or you're just curious, this conversation is dedicated to you.

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I knew I needed to hear this information again because Dr. Wakeman is the best of the best of the best. This is an exceptional resource for you. And if you happen to have the chance to hear or watch this last year, trust me, you need to spend time with Dr. Sarah Wakeman again, and so do I. And here's why. Because where you are in your life right now is very different than where you were last year.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And maybe right now you've got some massive goals. Maybe you're going through a major change or a huge tragedy. Maybe you're in the middle of reinventing yourself or you're starting a bold, new, amazing chapter. So this is the perfect time for you to ask yourself this question. What are you missing out on because of your drinking?

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And how could changing your relationship with alcohol support you in being happier, healthier, and achieving your goals this year? I cannot wait for you and I to dig into this episode again. So let me introduce you to the incredible Dr. Sarah Wakeman. She is one of the most renowned medical experts in the entire world.

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Dr. Wakeman is the Senior Medical Director of Substance Use Disorder at Harvard's Mass General Brigham Hospital here in Boston, which has been ranked as the number one research hospital in the entire world.

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After studying at Brown University, Dr. Wakeman did her residency at Mass General, which is the best program in the country, where she was also the chief resident, which means she was the number one medical resident in her class. She is an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School. and the Program Director of Mass General Addiction Medicine Fellowship.

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And she took time out of her extraordinarily busy schedule to come to our Boston studios for one reason, to give you and the people that you love the facts, the science, and the research so that you can make an informed decision about the role that alcohol plays in your life and how it is impacting your brain, your body, and your health. So without further ado...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Please help me welcome Dr. Sarah Wakeman to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Well, thank you for taking the time out because I know you have an unbelievably busy schedule. So let's just jump right into it. So Dr. Wakeman, can you explain what even is alcohol and how does it affect our bodies?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That sounds very science-y to me. What kind of molecule is it? Is it a poison? Could you explain more about the makeup of what it actually is?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because there is no doubt in my mind, it's gonna change how you think about alcohol and what it does to your body, brain, and your health forever. I am so excited that you're here. You know, it's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. And I also wanted to say, if you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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Well, when you say the category cleaning, hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol, thinking about uses in a hospital, and then I put that in the same family category, as something you would ingest in a cocktail, is it the same molecule?

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I just already had something that I learned that is, if you're watching us on YouTube, you can see that my mouth is agape. I don't know why I never connected the dots on that, that it is actually the same chemical.

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I think that's an indication of just how much we engage in it and don't really think about what we're doing.

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Are there negative impacts to having like a beer or a glass of wine every night? I mean, how does that impact you?

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And you know, because you made time to hit play and to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You're the type of person who not only values your time, but you're also interested in learning about ways that you can improve your life and your health. And I think that's really cool.

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What is it about the molecule of alcohol that increases your risk for cancer?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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alcohol and liver failure or just how it's impacting people's livers?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So just this morning, literally a couple hours ago, before I walked into the studio, sat down in this chair and am talking to you now, I get this text from one of my close college friends. And it said, Mel, I really need some help. Do you have five minutes?

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Well, I mean, I'll just admit right away, you know, having struggled with anxiety for almost 30 years, you know, I'll take full responsibility for the fact that I was afraid of anxiety. I hated it. I ran from it. I tried to drink it away. I tried to outwork it. Yep. And none of it worked.

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And some of the medications worked to mute it and they were life-saving ladders to help me climb out of a hole. Yeah. but not understanding what you're talking about already. And so I want to take a giant highlighter and say there's a huge difference between low-level anxiety that is normal and the higher-level debilitating anxiety that is the focus of your clinical practice. Correct.

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We're going to get into the tools that you can use for yourself and you can also use with people in your life that are feeling anxious, but I should probably just back up and start with some of the basics. Sure. What is your definition of anxiety, Dr. Rosmarin?

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If I don't do well in this sales meeting, I'm going to get fired. Yeah, if I don't wear the right thing on this date, they're not going to like me.

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Oh, I see what you mean by at best. The thoughts are way worse. I'm never going to find anyone. I'm going to always be the single for blah, blah, blah. Okay, gotcha.

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That's the constellation. Why does this happen? So why does this happen before a test? Why does this happen before a date? Why does this happen if you have a stressful day at work? Why does this happen if you have to see your in-laws and you don't particularly enjoy them?

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Um... Is it because they're getting air in their lungs for the first time?

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This is going to be a resource, a place for you to start if you or somebody that you love is struggling with this anxiety. And by the end of this episode, You're going to know exactly what anxiety is and what it isn't. You're going to understand the things that you're probably doing that are making it worse for you or the person that you care about.

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So what's happening in my body if I'm going into work on a stressful day and I feel anxious? Like, how is that the same as a baby crying?

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That's a beautiful reframe. And I think for those of us that are feeling it, or we see this present in our children or a partner or a colleague, what is the thing you could say in that moment? Because I think it's those micro moments that we really screw up. Totally. And so what do you do in that moment?

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So even just stopping yourself from joining in and that's terrible and you got to calm down and I'm going to call the school and you don't need to do this.

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So what's the mistake that the person who is listening right now might be making when they're dealing with their own anxiety in life?

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You're going to have a whole new way to look at this and a four-step approach that's going to work. And this is exactly what you need to help somebody who's struggling with anxiety. And the good news is, Dr. Ross Marin says, if you feel trapped by anxiety or you've been trying to outrun it or out-drink it or out-sleep it or whatever... What he's about to share with you will set you free.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So we're going to go into your four-step process that you use in your clinical practice. Can you just tell it to us at a top level?

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It seems so simple, which is probably why it works so well. Let's take a kid who has trouble doing a sleepover, which is a very normal thing. Oh, even bigger one. Sure. A kid who is anxious about throwing up. Happens every day. Yeah. Well, and my son, even to this day at the age of 19, Oakley will allow me to share this, is afraid of throwing up.

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Even though he has thrown up and knows that he can throw up, he still will get anxious about throwing up. And it was a huge thing when he was a kid.

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You know what I love about this is that I so screwed this up because I'd be like, you're not going to get sick. You're going to be fine. It'll happen. There's a nurse at school. Get on the bus. And what you're doing is you're actually slowing down that micro moment and you're going deeper and saying, well, what would happen and what is it really?

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And when you get to that answer, let's just say it's that I just hate the taste and I hate the pressure on my face and I hate it that it's going to happen and you're not there. Or that somebody's going to see it.

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You know, I heard our pediatrician share with me that the fear of throwing up is one of the biggest fears that kids have behind their parents dying. And... When you hear kids talk about this in your practice, like what typically is underneath some of these very common things that cause kids anxiety, whether it's sleepovers or it's separation anxiety or it's throwing up? Yeah.

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Yes.

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Yeah, and I also feel like, you know, I've heard this definition recently around anxiety that made so much sense to me, and I'd love to hear your reaction, and then I want to get into more examples about the things that you're seeing in your practice with your patients to just normalize the types of not only fears and anxious feelings that people have, but the way they rationalize this stuff in their head.

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Sure. And then hold themselves back because of it. And it's this, that anxiety is really a moment of uncertainty in life. Yes. And you doubt your capacity to handle it.

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And because we then start worrying about how things are going to be, I'm going to throw up or the work's going to be terrible or I'm going to get fired or this person's never going to love me or I'm never going to meet anybody again or if I park in a parking garage on the top floor, then the car is going to roll off and fall to its face and I'm going to like that. Could happen. Right, it could.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so thrilled that you're here. I am excited for today's conversation. I love talking and learning about ways that you can understand anxiety and help somebody who is kind of struggling with it right now, and that's what we're going to do.

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Could happen. Probably not, but it could happen, right? Yeah, those things could happen. It's the fact that you doubt your ability to handle it that gets you trapped in your mind going over all of the what-ifs. Well, that's where the next two steps are.

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Or on a plane. A friend of ours flew in here, a colleague, and had horrendous Turbulence, which by the way, if I'm taking what you're teaching us, Dr. Rosmarin, if you're anxious on a plane that is like riding a bucking bronco, it's a sign that you're mentally well and that your body's working as it should. Yeah, what's wrong with you if you're not feeling anxious? Correct.

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And he said the woman next to him started hyperventilating, so he held her hand and told her, I'm nervous too, but we're going to be okay. And look at the attendants, they're chatting away, we're going to be okay. And so her sharing with him that she felt that way created a complete connection with the stranger. She will never forget him. That's true. Ever. That's true.

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Now, how the hell do I do that?

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I don't want to.

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Dr. Ross Marin, I have a lot more questions that I want to ask you about this, but I want to take a quick pause. Let's let all of this information settle in. And while you listen to a word from our sponsors, share this with somebody that you love. I mean, this is world-class medical research-backed advice.

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Everybody in your life deals with anxiety and everybody deserves to know how they can thrive when those moments hit. So don't go anywhere because Dr. Ross Marin and I are going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are learning from world-renowned expert on anxiety, Dr. Ross Marin.

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It is always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together, and I want to take a minute and acknowledge that if you're a new listener, welcome. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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So if you're going to embrace your anxiety, and that's the answer, which I don't like to hear, I'm just going to say right out, like if I am a person, we all have this person in our life whose identity has become anxiety. And it is also the thing that they say to opt out. And I have been that person. And so if embracing anxiety, after you've identified what am I really scared of, you share it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now we got to embrace the thing you're actually scared of, that root thing, right? Correct. How do you do that? Can you share examples?

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Oh, no. No. Do not turn my work back on me. Am I wrong? No.

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Okay.

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No, not right now.

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So you have to, so you, so how do you coach somebody through this? Because you do have a section in your book where you on, let's see here. I marked it actually. It's page 96, facing up to anxiety.

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Is exposure therapy the only answer? It's not the only answer.

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I'm so thrilled that you hit play and that you made time to listen to this particular episode because I know that you don't have a lot of time, I know you value your time, and I know that you're listening because either you struggle with anxiety

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Okay. So you're afraid of flying?

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Why no martini?

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That's a big word.

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temporarily, but then you wake up in the morning with a massive hangover and anxiety is the big symptom.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What about for OCD? Like somebody who's like worried about like cleanliness and germs.

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or you're feeling a little bit more anxious than normal or you know somebody who does and you're looking for resources that are gonna help you get control of your anxiety or support someone else. And I'm gonna tell you something, you're gonna wanna share this with everybody that you care about because this is a life-saving,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So what do you do with those like really dirty, grimy hands?

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The toilet. Ooh. So how does somebody get through the uncomfortable feelings that they have while they're doing this exposure therapy with you?

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What if when they first start doing it, they feel so uncomfortable or the anxiety just spikes and they're like, I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't get on that plane, I can't put my hands in the toilet, I can't put my hands on the table. What do you do?

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How many times, Dr. Ross Marin, does it take for somebody to start feeling less anxious when they start forcing themselves to do this thing, expose themselves to the thing that they're terrified to do?

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What about a parent who has a child who is starting to develop a pattern of not wanting to either go to school or participate in sports or who won't do sleepovers? And it's with a family that's safe. It's not some creepy family you don't know and they don't want to do it because they don't want to be there. What about then?

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and a priceless resource with one of the most respected and renowned experts on the planet practicing medicine today, working with thousands of patients around the world who are struggling with anxiety. And if you're here listening to this right now because somebody shared this with you, I want to tell you that's amazing because it tells me that you have people in your life who care about you.

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Well, one of the things that I love that you said at the very beginning of our conversation, when you made this life-altering distinction.

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Now, for real, sadness is a normal emotion that you're going to feel. And you know it comes and it goes. Yep. Depression is a clinical condition that interferes with your life that demands and deserves treatment. Correct.

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anxiety in terms of chronic anxiety or this fear that you have of things that keeps you from living your full life is very different than being nervous or on edge because the stakes are high or something's uncertain or you really care about doing well. Like, you know, I would imagine there's a tremendous amount of anxiety that you would feel before you take the LSAT or

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or before you are turning in a college application, or- Going on a first date. Going on a first date. And that's, again, in this range of nervousness and just uncertainty, which is a part of life. And what you taught us is in those moments- We literally do the wrong thing. Correct. We either go, uh-oh, this is a sign something's about to go wrong, and it's not.

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It's just a sign that you're about to do something where you doubt your ability for a bit. And then as the bystander, the friend, the boyfriend, the girlfriend, the husband, the wife, the parent, the grandparent, we literally are either like, oh, you're going to be fine, so we don't acknowledge it. Right. Or... We join in with the anxiety. Oh my God, something's wrong. Yes.

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Oh, you don't have to go to the sleepover. Oh, you don't have to try out for that team. Right. Oh, you know, you can take the test again if you screw it up. And I can see how powerful it is to catch these moments and reaffirm, oh, really? That makes sense that you'd be nervous. Tell me why exactly are you nervous about this test that's coming up? Or I can see why you'd be nervous.

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And she was texting me because she was looking for recommendations on what to do because her daughter's anxiety, it is through the roof. And you know what? I'm not surprised because I'm seeing so many people in my life. I'm seeing so many emails coming into the inbox at melrobbins.com, comments, DMs about this exact same topic.

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Like, tell me more about this date you're going on. What does that do for a person in the moment?

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Well, who isn't going to answer a lot?

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And this episode is going to remind you, no matter what you're facing, no matter how you're feeling, no matter how much your thoughts are spiraling or you're kind of getting into that grip where you're just so worried that bad things are going to happen at work or in your relationship or to somebody you care about, I want you to know you're not alone and you're definitely not powerless.

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Well, I mean... And is that why we've seen all these reports that anxiety... from a clinical standpoint, is on the rise? Or are you saying that this is more that doctors are now over-indexing normal, healthy human emotion into a clinical anxiety setting?

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Honestly, no one. And I think it's written about so much, and that's not to downplay the very real rise in sadness and worry and stress that kids feel and teenagers feel and people in their 20s feel. But I do think we don't have the language yet. which was why I was so excited about your work because for somebody who had anxiety that did not get addressed this way, I was afraid of it.

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So I drank myself into the ground. I tried to work myself through it. The second I got chronic anxiety where I would wake up panicking, I then get medicated and I never addressed the underlying issues. And the medication was lifesaving, but it also, I think, kept me trapped in this place where I was afraid to go off it.

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And there are plenty of times, I'm assuming, is all anxiety the same?

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And how would you, as a doctor and an anxiety physician, therapist, how would you actually categorize a seven, eight, or a nine? If it's getting in the way of your, at that level, it's going to be getting in the way of your life. Meaning it's disrupting your sleep, you're avoiding doing what you need to do.

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And now let's go with the kind of four, five, six.

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What would you be hearing typically from someone in your practice if they were saying, I'd say my worry and anxiety is about a four, five, or a six?

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And this doesn't have to be your life and it's not going to last. There are things you can do and you're about to learn from the world's leading expert over at Harvard, what you can do about anxiety. This is your resource. This is your starting point. And I want you to know, I know exactly what you're feeling because I did struggle with anxiety for decades and I spent years running away from it.

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The important thing there that I want to make sure that the person listening understands. Yes. is that what you just identified, first of all, it's the step one that you taught us of identify what's the root cause.

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And there's a huge difference in those moments in your life where something is causing you to be on edge and you to be nervous and you to be worried and doubting yourself or scared about what's going to happen. Because that, to me, sounds like there's a situation. I mentioned at the beginning of this episode that

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Literally two hours before you walked in the studio, I got a text from a very close friend of mine who said, my daughter is unable to sleep, has crushing anxiety.

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and then added that there is this massive medical test that she needs to take for med school, which to me said, oh, well, there's this thing happening that is high stakes that explains it, but because my friend has never dealt with this with any of her kids, and because it's really scary when you see somebody who's normally seems like they have it pulled together truly start to spiral,

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you don't know what to do. And what I said to her is, well, I'm going to tell you something. First of all, it seems appropriate that she's nervous because she has high stakes, but I've got the world's leading expert walking in here and this is the name of his book and you should go buy it right now because I know I screw it up

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Every time I see somebody, even when I know it's situational, because I get anxious for them. And so I think it's important to understand that even in your practice, and this is something you can do for yourself and you can do for somebody you care about, you identified one to nine, how much is this interfering? Mm-hmm.

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And what's the difference between something that is situational versus something that becomes way more chronic?

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Well, if I'm sitting there with you, probably not. You know what I mean? If I'm going to a doctor and I'm like, doc, I'm feeling very anxious, four, five, six, I'm not sleeping very well. I don't feel like anybody that even would say a four or five or six feels like they're thriving or able to kind of use it.

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I can think of periods of my life like that. Sure. So what is a one, two, or three when somebody that you're treating says that?

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I love what you just said. What you just said is the goal is not to get to zero.

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That if we take as truth, which it is, That feeling on edge and nervous and doubting yourself, normal human emotions. The anxiety becomes a real problem from a clinical standpoint when it's interfering with your life and it is robbing you of the possibilities and the full potential that you have because you're now held hostage by the anxiety and you're scared of it. Well put.

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If the goal is that we can do simple things to identify what's making you anxious, to remind you that you have the capacity to face this, to have you share and connect with other people, and to take small steps and go, the goal isn't to go to zero. The goal is just, let's just get this to a three. And there's some simple things I can do. Dr. Rosmarin, let's hit the pause button for just a second.

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When things got too difficult to bear, you know what I'd do? I'd try to wash those anxious feelings away with a drink or I'd lie in bed and just pull the covers over my head and wish that things would go away if I just stayed in bed. Or my favorite thing to do? Oh, just stay busy. Stay so busy you don't have time to think about anything. Is this sounding familiar? I'm sure it is.

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Let's hear a word from our sponsors. And I want to give the person listening a chance to share this episode with somebody that they really care about, because this is a world-class resource that you're giving us that will completely change the way that somebody thinks about anxiety and and starts to respond to it differently. And I love everything that you're sharing.

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So thank you in advance for sharing this with people that you care about. And don't go anywhere because Dr. Ross Marin has so much more to teach you and share with you and inspire you about when we return. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to spend time with Dr. David Ross Marin. His book is Thriving with Anxiety.

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Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that will improve your life. So Dr. Ross Marin, before we go into how do you actually go from the higher end down to the one to threes here, I do want to stay on this topic, even though it's very self-serving because I feel like I screwed this up and it's the sleepover topic.

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You're a parent, you have a child, they are opting out, and you're very worried. It's getting into the four, fives, and six. You're not with them eight hours a day, so you're not a part of what's happening at school. What do I do in those moments? When I have a child that's really anxious, do I force them to go to the sleepover? What do I do?

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What if I wake up and I'm scared?

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What would happen if you were to wake up and... Then I'd have to wake up Mrs. So-and-so and they'd have to come get you and it'd be really embarrassing.

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I just like my bed. I'd rather be in my bed.

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There's so much there because now I'm starting to think like, gosh, they probably also feel self-conscious. Like they can't do something that their friends can do. And that makes them seem like more. And then you might find out that their friends actually aren't that nice. I can see how there's a lot there. And it's so individual to that person.

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Because we all try to outrun the bad feelings. We all don't want to face the thing that we're scared to face. And see, that's the thing about anxiety. It doesn't feel good, does it? And it also doesn't feel good to watch somebody that you care about struggle with it. Whatever it is that you are trying to do to forget the feeling or to get rid of it or deny that it's even there.

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Is there a difference between the way that women and men or boys and girls tend to exhibit symptoms of anxiety? So great question.

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It's so true. Well, you know, there's interesting research. That just feeds back. It does. There's interesting research about, like, if a guy loses a job, when he gets his next job, there's no difference in the salary he makes.

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When a woman loses her job, she turns it back on her, becomes anxious, and starts doubting herself and her capability of handling this, and tends to take literally a 25% salary cut. And so this has very, very real implications. Are there topics that you find that boys and men are more anxious about than women?

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How do you turn anxiety, though, into an ally instead of an enemy?

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When you're afraid of it.

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And so you are letting go of the need for proof and just choosing to believe. Correct. Correct. And what I think you're believing, especially in those moments of anxiety, is that you're going to be okay and that you have the capability and the capacity to handle this and to face whatever comes. Even though it's overwhelming and beyond you.

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I mean, why wouldn't you? Who would blame you if you did want to get rid of your anxiety? I mean, I don't blame you. Well, what if there's another way? What if there's an entirely different way to think about the topic of anxiety, an entirely different way to respond when you start to feel a little anxious?

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I mean, at its deepest level, it's trusting in life. And, you know, actually, it reminds me of something that you wrote in your book that I absolutely loved. which is, when anxiety strikes, we tend to get annoyed. Why doesn't the anxiety beast get out of our way? We look for distractions or a way out of the quandary.

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Is there a drink I can have or a recreational drug I can take to make it all go away, at least for the moment? Can I busy myself with work or by obsessively reading and posting on social media? These strategies tend to just make anxiety worse. However, if we can harness the power of anxiety, we can thrive in ways we never thought were possible.

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We should not sidestep anxiety or back up and deny that it is there, but rather stop and evaluate the situation. What is our anxiety trying to tell us? The answer is that we need to dig deep down into ourselves, although doing so makes us uncomfortable. We need to experience anxiety in order to transcend it. And although it may not seem to be the case at first glance, what lies inside

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Thanks.

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What if you read the headlines about the melting polar ice cap, and you look at the fact that there's this once-in-200-year storm that happened in Florida a while ago, and you're worried about climate change, and that there won't be a planet here for future generations, and that starts to cause you a lot of anxiety.

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Yeah, California wildfires. How do you use this method with that?

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I know, but I'm playing the role of somebody who is in an anxious state and who... You know, cause when you're, you're kind of cynical when you're anxious, cause you felt this way and you're like, doc, you don't have any idea. I know you've treated tens of thousand people and you've got a degree and you're an expert in this and you've studied it, but you don't know what it's like.

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Like, I just can't get out of my head.

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What if there's a different way to show up for the people in your life when they start feeling anxious? What if instead of running away, you actually learned how to run toward it? I mean, what does that even mean? Well, our expert today is going to tell you exactly what it means. Dr. David Rosmarin is one of the world's leading experts on anxiety.

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I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And you're the expert and I'm sure you'll tell us anytime you focus on or grip or worry about things that you can't control, you just create more anxiety for yourself.

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So you have so many tools in your book, Thriving with Anxiety. What are some tools that the person who's listening can put to work like right now so that anxiety enriches their relationship with themselves? Because that's a really beautiful tool. thing that is possible to you, that this could actually create a deeper connection that you have with yourself?

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So you just dump everything in your brain on a piece of paper, just everything that's in there. Yep. And then what? And then pick out the anxiety saplings.

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You mean like do your brain dump in chat GTP and then go, tell me what the two biggest things that I'm anxious about.

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Okay. You're going to put yourself out of a job. Okay. Keep going. No, never. Because we all need you. I don't think so. I'm not worried about that. So once you've done that, you've picked out kind of the two big themes.

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What do you do? Dig.

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Identify.

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Share.

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Okay.

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What is the top five things that when you do that exercise with your patients come up over and over and over and over?

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What is it?

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Well, it makes sense. There's a doctor who's had a big impact on me, Dr. Russell Kennedy, who talks about how he believes that all anxiety is separation anxiety. Very similar. And it's separation from self, mostly, and your faith in yourself and your belief in yourself.

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And from a spiritual standpoint, if you're a very spiritual person, you also separate from the source of your belief in power because you go up in your head. And so... What's interesting about that is I think you're right. If I tick through everything that I've ever been anxious about or my kids have ever struggled with, it does come down to I'm going to be alone. It's true. That's it.

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It's true. So how do you let that fear go? You don't.

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He's the founder of the Center for Anxiety, which offers therapy across the United States. And it's focused on not just living with, but thriving with anxiety. And when I heard that, I was like, okay, thriving? I'm a little skeptical. Well, I think Dr. Ross Marin is going to suspend all disbelief and set us free.

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So let's say the person listening or she is at a seven, eight or nine on the scale. Yeah. What is the good news that you tell that person when they walk in and begin their practice with you?

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What would you say to the person who's listening that they've been hanging on every word, they've been either thinking about their own anxiety or somebody that they care about who's really struggling with it?

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But there's that little bit of skepticism, you know, that the urge to just kind of react like, well, I'm never like, this isn't, I don't know if this is going to work for me, which is also more of your anxiety, right? Yeah. Because now you're up in your head debating and having a negative thought about the thing, the very thing that could save you.

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So... What would you say to that person that just feels sort of discouraged or skeptical?

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I mean, you just did exactly what you told us to do. I saw. You validated. Oh, I guess so. You did. It just popped out of me. How has everything that you just shared with us helped you with your anxiety?

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He's an associate professor of psychology at Harvard Medical School and the director of the Spirituality and Mental Health Program at McLean Hospital, which is one of the top ranked psychiatric hospitals on the planet. He's also the author of Thriving with Anxiety, Nine Tools to Make Your Anxiety Work for You. And he'll be the first to tell you he deals with anxiety too.

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And she's like, I've known this about you forever. You've just been hiding it together and you're annoying and you take it out on the rest of us.

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You know, what's interesting about your approach is that so many people that talk about anxiety, and I know I'm certainly in this camp because I've always focused on, all right, let's get rid of this. all right, let's organize our entire lives so we don't feel this thing. So let's, you know, make sure we wake up and we do this.

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And all those things are very important because I certainly have identified the conditions or triggers or situations that can make me feel nervous on edge or anxious in an unnecessary way, like too much drinking, which then makes you wake up with anxiety. And why would you do that to yourself?

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Or looking at your phone first thing, which of course spikes your feelings of inferiority and puts you up in your head. So why would you do that thing? And so I think though, In listening to you, there's a huge shift in the way that you've made me think about this, because you basically are saying to all of this, and you're probably going to be like, yeah, you're right, dummy.

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That's exactly what I said at the very beginning. But I think you need to hear it over and over to really get what you're saying. And I finally do, which is look. Zero to nine. Just like you're always going to have sadness in your life, but it doesn't always turn into depression.

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You're always going to have on-edgeness and nervousness and uncertainty and doubt, which is the low-grade anxiety, or on the point scale, it's one to three. And opening your arms to it, rather than bracing for battle, knowing that it's coming and knowing that in those moments when it rises up in you or somebody else, instead of invalidating it, just go, oh, interesting, I'm nervous.

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Yeah.

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In fact, it's going to be there. And so learning to, and one of the big takeaways that I have from our conversation is I'm not going to call it anxiety.

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Whatever it is. I'm going to call it nerves or excitement, or I'm going to call it I'm feeling a little unsettled or feeling a little uncertain, or I'm a little worried that I'm not going to do well on this test, or I'm a little upset about something. I like it. Save your anxiety. Yeah, like I'm getting, like I notice I'm like getting ready to do something or I notice I really care about this.

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Like there's different ways. I notice I'm a little worried about going to the sleep. That sounds very different than I'm very anxious about, which to your original point, calling something that's vastly different, the exact same thing, That's one thing that I know I'm going to do in my life and with people that I care about.

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And I'm also going to point out the thing that you're actually worried about, it would make sense that you feel that way. Let's talk more about it. Yeah. Life-changing. Thanks. Dr. Ross Marin, what are your parting words?

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And after 15 years as a leader in this field, he has learned something that you will probably find kind of surprising. Embracing that dreaded anxiety, it's actually good for you. it can actually enrich your life, make you happier, more confident, more resilient person.

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Wow, thank you, thank you, thank you. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that there's no doubt in my mind it's going to change your life. Because when you can flip the way that you think about anxiety on its head, it no longer controls you. And for far too long, I allowed anxiety to control me.

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I made it worse in my kids because I didn't have this four-part framework that you just learned today. And don't you deserve to have a life where you're not held hostage by your anxiety? Of course you do. And so do the people that you love. And so I just want to thank you for taking the time.

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And I also want to be sure to tell you, in case nobody else does today, that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And there's no doubt that listening to this and then taking the time to share it with somebody that you care about It's not only going to make your life better, it's going to make their life better too.

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Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. I'll be there to welcome you in the moment you play. I'll see you there. No, I'm from Michigan. No kidding. Yeah, that's where I grew up. And then came East for college and law school, met my husband out here. Parents are still pissed. And my throat is... Drive. Go figure. And then let them. So exciting.

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Three and a half. We'll take it. You did great. You didn't even show it. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Now that may sound like a very tall order, especially if you can't sleep because your anxiety is so bad or you don't know what it feels like to not have racing thoughts, but there is a different way to live. So if you and I are gonna trust anyone, How about we promise each other that we're not going to trust the negative thoughts right now?

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We're going to trust Dr. Ross Marin because he says he can show you anxiety is not the curse you think it is. And he's actually going to teach you today how you can start seeing it as a blessing you can embrace. Now there's a word I never thought I'd use before today's conversation. So let's just jump in. Dr. David Ross Marin, I am so excited that you're here.

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Well, one of the reasons why I'm excited is because I am asked the question over and over and over again. For some reason right now, this is one of the biggest things I've been asked, which is I either have somebody that I love that's struggling with anxiety or I am suddenly very anxious. Where do I even start?

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And the thing that was kind of crazy about today is that she texts me this question about anxiety, looking for resources. Where do I start? How do I help this person I care about? And do you know what you and I are talking about? Literally in a matter of a minute, we are sitting down with one of the world's leading anxiety experts from Harvard University.

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And I feel like this conversation and the honor of being able to sit down with you and learn from you in the way that you are counseling and helping and healing people around the world with your work who are struggling with anxiety, I just feel like this is going to be the biggest gift. And so I would love for you to tell the person listening who has made the time to learn from you today

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What could change about their life or the person's life that they're going to share this with if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us based on all of your experience and they use it in their life? There are two things.

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That's a pretty tall promise, the ally versus an enemy, because I think anybody who is struggling with anxiety or watching somebody struggle with it, it does seem like an enemy. It sure does. And that's why I was really curious, because the title of your bestselling book is Thriving with Anxiety. Because when I hear thriving with anxiety, it almost presumes that I got to keep it.

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And I'm like, but doc... I want to thrive without this stuff. So what is possible when you say you can make it an ally or you can thrive?

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So meaning that because we don't understand what anxiety actually is and because we're afraid of it, actually, it reminds me of a passage in your book that I want to read to you that I found so interesting. Okay. Anxiety is nothing to fear in and of itself. This is page 35 I'm reading from. My office has serviced over 10,000 patients. Correct. And we have never had a patient die from anxiety.

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No one has ever been hurt from their anxiety symptoms or, quote, gone crazy from the acute experience of anxiety. Even though I'll add that you often feel like you're going crazy. Sure. And you write, yes, people can develop behavioral problems in the context of anxiety, including alcohol or substance misuse, self-injury, and suicidality. However, if you want your anxiety to decrease...

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The last thing you want is to flood your system with more adrenaline. So reacting with catastrophic or self-judgmental thoughts to the fear response only makes it worse. And so what I take from just that passage is that we kind of have anxiety all wrong. And because we do, we're making it worse.

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He's the founder of the Center for Anxiety. I mean, what are the odds? Don't you just love it when life confirms the very thing you're about to do? It's like a little sign, okay, you're on the right track, just keep going. And as somebody who struggled with anxiety for decades, and who has had kids who have struggled with anxiety, here's what I know.

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Wow. So will you unpack that allergic part? Because you also write about that in your book, that anxiety is almost like an allergy. So you just said something that I think needs to be said even louder, which is there's a massive difference between the kind of chronic crushing anxiety that becomes a massive debilitating problem in somebody's life and

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and the very normal anxiety that absolutely every human being is going to feel. And if you understand it, it doesn't have to get worse. It can be something that can actually be an ally that you're not afraid of. What do you mean when you said allergy though?

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when you're facing something challenging?

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Yeah.

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It makes so much sense. And yet when you're in that spiral or that panic about your job or the interview or whether or not you're going to meet quota or if the person that you're seeing is falling out of love with you, You don't have access to that ability, or at least not now. That's what you're going to teach us how to do. To catch, is this sadness or depression?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)

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It can be so scary when it's happening to you or to somebody that you love, but I also want you to know something. You have within you the capacity to face whatever is scaring you. And this conversation needs to happen right now. And I'm so glad that you're here for it because Dr. David Ross-Marin is about to flip everything that you and I know on its head about anxiety.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)

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And I guess I would put in that, is this normal nerves? Or is this actually something to be worried about as a state? It's exactly the first question to ask. And it's something I've never done. is stop myself in those moments where I'm starting to go up in my head and ruminate and panic and think about all the worst things that could happen, which only freaks me out more.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)

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And I've seen my kids do the same thing. And then I avoid the thing that I need to do, which only makes me feel more doubtful and affirm that I can't handle it. And so I could see how the first thing would be, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Is this a normal set of nerves based on what's going on and a sign that I'm actually mentally well, or is this something way bigger? Correct.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Secret to Stopping Anxiety & Fear (That Actually Works)

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Could you just explain to the person listening how exactly you found yourself in this work and starting the Centers for Anxiety? What led you here?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad that you chose to listen to this episode, because today I've got somebody in our Boston studios whose work has fundamentally changed my life. This person has helped me understand exactly how my childhood shaped who I became as an adult. And today he's going to do the exact same thing for you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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What do you mean when you say unconditional acceptance? Because I think most of us, it's revelatory to hear, no, no, no, there's a biological hardwired need that you have as a child to feel unconditional acceptance and safety from the adults around you and in your environment. And if you do not feel that way, it creates a response inside your body. There is a reaction to that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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But most of us, I think we even just skip over that fact. Gabor, that there's a fundamental need that a child has to feel accepted. And so what does that mean, if you could unpack it for us?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And I know because you chose to listen to this episode that you're the type of person who values your time. And you're also interested in learning about ways that you can improve your life. I love that. I love that you're listening to this episode. And you want to know what else I love? I love that you and I are going to get to spend time learning from the extraordinary Dr. Gabor Mate.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Is there a human being on the planet that doesn't have trauma from their childhood? Because I'm sitting here listening and it's an interesting conversation because you listen to it both from your experience.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And I love that you said, we're not going to blame mothers.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And pain is moving through people. This is why trauma passes through your family and through cultures generationally. And learning about this helps you understand the responses to your childhood that helped you survive. And it also helps you feel empowered to take responsibility.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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To change those now subconscious responses that you have.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Dr. Maté is a world-renowned physician and best-selling author whose work dives deep into childhood development and the impact of trauma on how it shapes your mental and physical health over your lifetime. Dr. Maté has completely transformed how the world sees, talks about, and understands trauma. And he has absolutely had that impact on me, and it's been life-changing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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I could listen to you all day, Dr. Mate. I want to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors. While you are listening to our sponsors, please share this episode with absolutely everyone that you care about. Dr. Mate's work has changed my life. I know that it will make a huge difference in your life and with anybody that you share this with.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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So thank you for taking a listen to our sponsors. Thank you for sharing this with the people that you love and don't go anywhere. We have so much more to cover with Dr. Mate and we're going to do that after a short break. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And you and I are spending time today with the amazing Dr. Gabor Mate.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And we're digging into the topic of how your childhood has shaped who you've become as an adult. So Dr. Mate, when you think of childhood trauma, how do you identify it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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This show has listeners in 194 countries. Sure. And this might be the very first time as you're listening that you're actually starting to go, wait a minute, everything that he's saying is what I experienced.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Or at least pieces of it. I've never considered that this could be trauma. Yeah. And we've talked about it as a psychological wound, but I think it'd be really helpful if you also explained how does this create trauma either programming or conditioning in your body that starts to define who you become as an adult and create behaviors that you never intended.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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I promise you, this episode is going to shift the way you see everything, how you show up for yourself, how you connect with the people you love, and why you experience life the way that you do. It's going to help you understand why coping has become your default and how you can move toward true healing. I am so excited for both you and me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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You know, I am sitting here thinking about ways in which I can try to distill emotions down what you're saying because the information has been so life-changing for me in my own life to really accept, acknowledge, and seek to understand how childhood experiences created a traumatic response inside of me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And I want to focus on the, I guess you would call it the smaller T stuff, which is that you have fundamental needs as a child.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And when they are not provided to you, that it creates trauma inside of you. And is it fair to say that another way to think about trauma is that it's something happening outside of you that creates this almost like alarm or bracing in your body? It's like it kind of flips you into that fight or flight.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because I have this experience of not, like going back through my childhood and not like seeing anything that's massive related to my parents. But just having this sense of constantly being on edge, constantly feeling like, you know, it's my job to make everybody happy. Don't say the wrong thing. This hypervigilance. And I never knew where it came from.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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What is a child supposed to do?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Just as you're growing up. It's interesting because I think so many people, at least in my life and my lived experience, is that that's my job. To protect myself, to make everybody happy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So please, please, please help me welcome the extraordinary Dr. Gabor Mate to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited to welcome you, Dr. Gabor Mate, to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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So that's a form of trauma.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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One of the ways that I've seen people really deny the existence of trauma inside a family is between siblings, where two siblings will grow up in the same household and be like, well, that never happened, or mom wasn't like that, or you're just being too sensitive. In your work, what have you discovered about how siblings can grow up in the same house?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Before we dive in, Gabor, I would love to have you speak directly to the person who's listening to us and just share with them what they might expect to experience, if they really take to heart what you're about to teach us and share with us today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Well, you know, I am sitting here listening, again, kind of from two places. One as a mother, right? Yeah. And one as a human being who was a daughter who has recognized that there were lots of small things that happened. Yeah. And one big thing that created a tremendous, like a traumatic response inside me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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That created hypervigilance and anxiety and probably ADHD. And I'm also thinking, and I'm going to share this because I think it'll be really helpful. Thank you

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I love that. No one is damaged goods.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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No, but I did.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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No, that happened in our house like 15 years ago.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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We are gonna unpack this in this conversation at length, but I think it might be helpful for someone who is not familiar with your work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And he felt bad and I was an asshole.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Again, more trauma and more pain passing on to our kids.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Why do we do that?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Dr. Maté, this feels like a good time to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors. And while you're listening to our sponsors, please share this episode with people that you love. Absolutely every human being deserves and needs to hear this life-changing information from Dr. Maté.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Because what's happened to you in your past, first of all, it's not your fault. But it is your responsibility to yourself to do the work that you need to do in order to heal, to grow, to become healthier and happier. And today you're going to learn exactly how to do it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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If we could go back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And can you share, if we go all the way back to your childhood, just what was happening in your life and in particular, how finding your mother's journal really impacted you and sent you in a certain direction in terms of your life's work?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And don't go anywhere, because when we return, Dr. Maté and I will be waiting for you after this short break to keep digging into this important topic. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to spend time with the extraordinary Dr. Gabor Mate.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So Dr. Mate, one of the things that's coming to mind is thinking back to my own life and the moment where I first bumped into your work and I learned that the seemingly little things created a lasting impact.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that even though I wasn't to blame for the emotional volatility or the emotional shutdown in my parents when I was growing up, that it impacted me, it was real, and it was my responsibility to heal and to decide whether or not I wanted to do the work to change. the way that it impacted me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because it did have a massive impact on my behaviors, constantly feeling on edge, people-pleasing, anxiety, ADHD, drinking too much, chasing success as a way to prove that I was worthy of something and to make other people happy. Yes. It was everywhere.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It honestly just defined how I ran on default. And I remember the moment though, when I started to truly accept the fact that these were all indications of trauma.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that if I wanted my life to feel different.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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That I needed to lean into everything that you're saying.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And I felt a lot of conflict about that moment because I felt guilty for identifying it that way because I know my parents were just doing the best that they did. They did. And that there was a lot that I didn't remember. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I'm wondering if you could just talk to the person who's listening, who is having that awakening for the first time, where they're really accepting that some of the behaviors and the negative self-talk and the anxiety, that this is a result of experiences that you had as a child where you were not given the things that you needed.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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No, it's an indictment.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Oh, I'll share it with you. When I was in the fourth grade, I woke up in the middle of the night on a family vacation and an older kid was on top of me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And that had massive implications on my life. When were we? I was fourth grade.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And I was sound asleep, so I was in a safe space. Wake up to an older kid on top of me who was fondling me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And... In the scheme of things that can happen, it was, here I go dismissing it. You're looking at me. You're like, no, no, no, no, no.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Okay. Okay. But it's almost like I'm shaming myself for having trauma about this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Oh, I'm so open to it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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I felt very confused and scared.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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No one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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I'd feel... How would I explain it? I would explain it, and I'm about to go intellectual. I personally, as the mother, would feel heartbroken.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Because she didn't feel safe talking to me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Oh, a thousand percent. And I can also see when I think about experiences that friends have shared with me where they did say something.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And then there was denial.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Or dismissal. Yeah. Or we're not going to tell anybody. Yeah. Or this stays within us. Yeah. Or even if they then go after the person and confront it, it blows up and somehow you're to blame. And so I can see how... That's right. Yeah. And of course, when you shove it down, you then think you've done something wrong.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And that was the other thing that happened for me is that I felt like I had done something wrong.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Well, I think that was one of the original moments that at least that I remember where I literally left my body and disassociated.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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It makes perfect sense.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And then I can also see and take responsibility and have a lot of compassion for how my volatility emotionally.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Just passed that on to my daughters.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Because the exact same thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And, you know, it, of course, just makes me, it, It makes me sad that I didn't know this sooner, but I feel very grateful for your work because I know it now. And so do our children and so does my husband.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And that knowledge gives you the ability to truly address the things that happened and the response that happened in your body and how that has created these default patterns and this inability to manage stress or emotion or conflict.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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in a way that is healthy and that keeps you connected to yourself instead of constantly abandoning yourself and feeling disappointed in yourself and shaming yourself. And so while I can reflect on that with a lot of sadness and grief and regret, I feel more empowered, honestly, about what's possible.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It is totally possible.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And it's possible for you. It's possible for your children. It's possible for anybody that you know and love. It's possible for your parents if they accept the invitation to look at themselves.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Yes. What is the first step? Is it asking the question, like, why? Like, just being curious with a level of compassion, like, why am I like this? Because if I reflect on your question... That's what happened for me. I started to say to myself, it's no longer tolerable for me to operate like this. I don't want to be this person. I don't want to feel like this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I don't want to feel disconnected from other people. I don't want to have this level of anger inside me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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You mean if I think about when I was in fourth grade?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Well, I ask for a lot of help now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Absolutely. Like when you just said that, I had this epiphany that I've always felt like I got to do it myself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I've always felt like it's on me. I've always felt like I'll just take this on. I'll just do this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Is you just said there's no help available and I felt this knee-jerk need.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Because I do know. I mean, I know my mom well enough to know that she would have picked up a shovel and probably clocked the kid into next week. Yeah, yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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It's beautiful.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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It is so simple when you lay it out like that. Yeah. And it's also so freeing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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One of the things that you write about that I think is so important that I would love to have you explain is this idea that we are naturally wired and have a fundamental need for joyfulness, playfulness, creativity, and that we sacrifice that. Can you talk more about that?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why is it one of your all-time favorite books?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And you weren't played with. So did you play with your kids?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Well, a very surprising insight for me as I've been working to resolve issues from my past is noticing that I'm a very warm person, but I'm not affectionate. And it's this epiphany of... going in more for the hug, being more physical in terms of embracing my kids. And it's something that I definitely did not receive.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I come from a long line of farmers and hard workers and pull up your big girl panties and let's move on. And that's the way that my mom is, even though she's warm and amazing and loving, but not physically embracing. And so I really relate to that because it's something as an adult that I recognize that I truly want to change. And it takes effort.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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It takes effort for me to go, oh, I noticed I'm just standing here. I got to put my arm around.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And I embraced you when you walked in.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And is that a response to...

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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What might be some surprising adult behaviors that are an indication of unresolved trauma from your childhood?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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And other ways, like you talked about kind of not being the kind of person that is open to hugging or my husband shuts down.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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You're so amazing. What are your parting words?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Good Will Hunting.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Here in Boston.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing all of your wisdom and your research and for not only validating.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Our experience, but giving us three simple things we can do to reconnect with ourselves and truly take our power back. You're amazing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're welcome. Oh, and I also want to take a moment and thank you. Thank you for choosing to listen to this episode. Thank you for sharing this with people that you love. And thank you for taking everything that you've learned today very seriously and trying these steps that Dr. Mate have given to you Because you deserve to reconnect with yourself. You deserve to be happy.

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You deserve to have a different experience of life. And there is no doubt in my mind that everything that you learn today is going to help you and the people that you love do exactly that. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you.

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I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life and understanding how your childhood has impacted who you've become and taking responsibility for who you want to become next. Everything you learned today is going to help you do that. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. I can't believe you're here. I really can't.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Got a word that's like, okay, completely screwed up my kids. Didn't mean to.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why is that the case? Because all three of my children have ADHD.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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I still erupt.

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then I still need to go to the bathroom. Now that you've said it, my body's like, yeah, I don't have to pee. Absolutely, you're fantastic. I'm trying not to interrupt you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Of course, no, you're doing fantastic.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You did? Oh, I would have probably failed your class. Oh, wow. Okay.

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And I embraced you when you walked in.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Well, that's a big nutshell.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to Heal

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Wow. So how did those experiences in your life really start to shape your work? Like, how did you start doing what you do today?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're also going to learn that no matter what it is that you may have survived in your childhood, it does not define who you are or who you can become. You're going to get a roadmap to better understanding yourself and also how you can connect with your true self. The extraordinary Dr. Gabor Mate is here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And what have you learned about how childhood experiences shape who we become as adults?

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I just want to make sure that the person that's with us in this conversation really gets this. Because I didn't first learn that your emotional state and your physical state when you're carrying the child impacts the nervous system and development of the human being inside you. And it makes sense. But can you explain more about that?

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Because this is an idea that was brand new to me just a couple of years ago.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He's written five books on the topic of childhood development, trauma, stress, ADHD, addiction, all of which are New York Times bestsellers. And it has taken me two years to get him to our studios here in Boston because he is in that much demand globally. Dr. Maté is going to help you understand exactly how your childhood shaped you.

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Well, it's interesting to listen to you explain all this because for me personally, your work has impacted both me and recognizing the way that childhood experiences and me when I was inside my mother developing into a baby.

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And then I think about your work in the context of me as a stressed out mother.

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And the state that I was in when I was carrying any one of our three children and how that absolutely impacted their development. There's this kind of conflict that I feel between, oh gosh, you know, I hurt my kids and I didn't mean to. And also this understanding that I think this is part of the human experience on some level.

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That is an incredibly helpful way to think about it. When you said that it's pain moving through you.

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That made my shoulders drop. How do you define trauma, particularly for somebody who isn't aware whether or not they've experienced it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're also going to learn more than 10 surprising ways that trauma is created in childhood, even if you didn't realize it, and how it is probably still impacting you to this day right now. Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so thrilled that you're here with me. It is always an honor to be able to spend time together with you. If you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Now, in that case, it's physical. And I want to kind of hover here because for a long time, I just assumed trauma was something that happened to people who were at war or were in a country that was occupied by a fascist government or country coming in like your parents were and that you were. Or somebody that was the victim of a violent crime.

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I never understood that experiences that may seem insignificant on the surface, somebody's mood, somebody criticizing you, feeling left out, that these are things that can also leave a mark, just like a blow to a head can actually leave a concussion. And I would love for you to explain to us what actually is a psychological wound.

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Because one of the things that I see happening a lot is people either shame themselves for being stuck, or they say, I'm just too emotional, or I should just get over it. And there is something deeper that you mean when you say it's a psychological wound.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You know, there's something that I've been worried about a lot lately, and I decided today is the day that you and I need to talk about this. And here's what I'm worried about. You and I live in a moment in history where the world is now designed to steal your time, your energy, your joy, and your focus.

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The whole purpose of this is to get you to get everything out of your mind so that you do not succumb to the Sunday scaries. Get everything out of your mind so you don't start the week in a state of overwhelm. Get everything out of your mind so you're not dragging all of this stuff that's knocking around in your brain like a pinball machine into this week. We're not doing that.

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So if you start with the checklist item number one and you just do a brain dump and just write everything down and just keep coming back to the list, here's for work, here's for personal, here's for home. Here's for work, here's for personal, here's for home. Here's for work, here's for personal, here's for home. boom, you're done. And you're going to feel lighter.

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It's sort of like a mental spray tan. I got one of my first spray tans ever. My 25-year-old daughter was like, mom, you got to have a spray tan. You're looking really zombie-like lately in the videos. And so I tried a spray tan. I swear to God, I'm like, I need to own a spray tan machine. I feel like I'm 10 years younger and five pounds lighter.

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You are going to feel the same way after you do a brain dump. Okay, so that's checklist item number one. So now you're standing there, you got your brain dump, barfed out mental stuff, piece of paper, or you got your three post-it notes, right?

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I use this checklist every single week to make sure that the foundational stuff based in research, I'm talking, these are really low-hanging fruit items, but they're critical. And so today, I'm not only going to share this checklist with you and walk you through all seven items, I'm actually going to give you a copy of it. I'll tell you how you can download it as we get into it.

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Like I did this weekend, which I just love because the other thing that I loved about the post-it note, I can then stick it into the journal that I carry around. So now I've got the reminder, you know, kind of right there. But you're going to be standing there feeling 10 years younger and five pounds lighter now that you did your brain dump.

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That brings me to item number two on the checklist for having a great week. You ready? You're going to free yourself. What does that mean? Oh, honey, you're going to free yourself of all the things on that little brain dump that you're carrying around mentally. Here's how you're going to do it. This is the most liberating thing in the world. You are going to cross things off

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There is so much on that list that you have zero intention of doing this week. Just put a cross right there. Just take a Sharpie, wipe it right off the list. You're going to free yourself of the burden of carrying this around. My friend Tracy, our executive producer, she's not organizing her bookcase properly. Cross it off the list.

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I'm going to tell you about another thing that I crossed off the list. So I have this box right here. I'm going to show it to you if you're watching YouTube, but you can hear it as you're listening to me. This is a FedEx box, okay? This big priority mailbox. It is full... of photos, full of photos. These are all photos.

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These are now photos in baggies that are photos that I sent to, I believe, the Today Show like four or five years ago so that they could scan some photos and show some photos, you know, like when they're introducing somebody. They have been sitting in a box next to my desk.

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This is like a tractor trailer that I drag around mentally with me because they sit next to my desk and I look at it and I think, I got to go through that. I got to get those back in the photo album things. I got to do something with it. You can hear this as you're listening to me. I pulled out some of them and I have, look at this right here.

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I have a photo right here of me getting dropped off freshman year of college. This is a photograph from 1986. Why is this in my brain right now? Here's another photograph from December 1981 of me and Jody and my brother, an exchange student whose name I've now forgotten, ice skating on the lake. This is in my brain. I do not need to carry it into the week.

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I guarantee you, whether it's a bookcase or it's photos that you need to organize or it's the junk drawer in the kitchen or it's the bag of clothes that you keep meaning to drop off and donate, there are things on that brain dump list that are staring you in the face. And now that they are out of your mind, dear Lord, checklist item number two, set yourself free. You're not doing it this week.

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Cross it off. Zero guilt. You are just claiming space. You are saying, you're not going into my brain. Not this week. No, thank you. Nope. We're not doing it. Doesn't this feel good? Can't you already feel like, man, I'm going to have a great week. I am not doing this. The family photo album for Peru this week. Just not happening. Cross it off the list.

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Because without doing this, you know what I would have done? I would have been on the plane to Los Angeles going, you know, I should probably work on that Peru photo album. I should probably do this. And then I would spend a bunch of time sitting there thinking about the things I needed to do. No. No, and neither are you, because you're going to start this week with checklist item number two.

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After you do your brain drop, you're going to set yourself free, free of all these things that you carry around, and you're going to cross it off, and you're not going to have any guilt about it. You are going to claim your time, because as I said to you at the beginning, we live in a world that is now programmed and designed to steal your joy, to steal your energy, to steal your time.

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But this checklist is going to guarantee that you will have a great week, or at least you're going to have a better week than you would have if you didn't use this seven-item checklist. I am so thrilled that you're here because it's time that you wake up. It's time that you realize that the world you live in, it's not doing you any favors right now.

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You and I, we're taking it back. That's what you're doing. You are making room in your brain and in your body and with your energy to not carry this stuff around with you. You're setting yourself free. Isn't this freaking awesome? Don't you already feel like it's going to be a great week? Of course you do.

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That's why you're going to love this checklist that you're going to print out and you're going to have it right by your desk or sitting on your fridge to remind you, Saturday or Sunday, this is what I do. This is how I create a great week. I don't even care if it's a Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday. If you've had a terrible week, get the checklist out. Start right now. You can reclaim this.

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Step one, brain dump. Step two, set yourself free. Cross off absolutely everything that you're not doing this week. See that? You are in control. I love this. Now, the third thing on the checklist, you've done your brain dump. You have now set yourself free. Oh, baby. Now, now is where you take control. Now is where you set the priority.

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I am holding in my hand one of these, what they call chisel tip, Sharpie permanent marker. No, they're not a sponsor of the Mel Robbins podcast. This just happens to be my favorite marker on the planet. It is a big fatty Sharpie. I love this thing. Big tip on this sucker. Don't get dirty in your mind. Come on. This is all art. I take this Sharpie.

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And the reason why I love this Sharpie is it's big. It is bold. If you're going to mark something up with this thing, it's because you mean it. And so you're going to take whatever is that version of it for you. It can be a pencil for all I care. You can write it with a thing of lipstick. You can take, if you're a spray paint person, you can use spray paint. I don't care.

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Because the third thing on the list is you're going to choose one thing. You're gonna circle that sucker. Of all the things that you've written down, I want you to stand in front of that brain dump. I want you to look at all the things that you've been like, nope, nope, not the bookcase, not the box of photographs, not the bathroom door, not the kitchen junk drawer.

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I'm not going to get to the donation pile. I'm not going to cut the lawn this week. Nope, I'm not cleaning out the garage. These projects are not getting done. You're going to see that there are things there that you're sort of like, can't quite cross it off. Can't quite set myself free.

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So as you stand in front of the things that are left, I want you to take a deep breath and I want you to look at those things. And I want you to say to yourself, of all the things that are left on this list, what's the one thing on this list that if you were to fast forward to next weekend and you look back on this week that you're about to live, you fast forward seven days from now

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In fact, it is stealing something from you and you need to take your power back. And it begins by taking your week back. Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so thrilled you're here. I am fired up. Can you tell I'm fired up for today's conversation? Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here.

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if you actually got a little progress done on that, if you actually moved the ball down the field, that you personally would feel better. What is that one thing? Is it picking up the guitar and playing for half an hour? Is it cleaning out the junk drawer? Is it taking 30 minutes and spending that time sorting through some health insurance claims?

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Is it fixing lunch and driving it over to a friend of yours that isn't feeling well? Is it the bookcase? Like really look at that list because there's something on there that is meaningful to you. And if you were to just move the ball down the field, spend 15 lousy minutes on the thing, It would make you feel better because it matters to you. This is so important.

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That's why I've got the chisel tip marker out here because this is not about work. It's not about your family. It's not about what your friends want you to do. It's not about what your parents need. This is something that matters to you.

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And as I'm going to keep on reminding you, we live in a moment in history where the world is engineered and deliberately programmed to steal your joy, to steal your time, to steal your energy and to steal your attention. And if you're not careful, and this is step three of this checklist, the world will steal meaning from you as well.

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And so whatever that thing is for you, this is where you get to be selfish. This is where you get to say, this is something that I really would like to find a little time on. Can you take a guess what it is that I circled this week after four years of putting it on the list? That's right, the damn picture wall. I circled the picture wall. Honest to God, that's what I've circled.

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I have been wanting to do this for four years. I have been carting around these photos that I keep next to my desk. Some of the photos in there are things that I would like on the wall.

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I literally said, I am going to move from talking and thinking about this, which I've been doing for four years, and it has continued to be on my brain dump for four years, and you're going to have things like that too. This was the week. This was the week that I'm like, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. And so I want you to do the same thing. I want you to... Circle it.

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When you circle this thing, you're not committing to getting it done. This is a really important nuance here. And there's a lot of research that explains why I'm telling you, I'm not expecting you to complete it. If you were to circle the bookcase, You don't have to get the bookcase organized. All you gotta do in circling it is find 15 minutes. I call this your hot 15.

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This is 15 minutes where you are gonna schedule time to just work on it and make progress. Because you and I both know in 15 minutes, I can't even find half the photos I need. I mean, I can't get much done in 15 minutes, but here's what I can do. I can actually move the ball down the field. Now here's the reason why it's critical for step three of the checklist for you to put it in the calendar.

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The reason why is it's not real until it's scheduled. If it's not in your calendar, it's not happening. This can't be an accident. Now is where you get serious. Now is where you move from having plans to planning. And there's this famous quote, maybe you've heard it, plans are nothing, planning is everything.

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And, you know, it's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together, but today's conversation... This feels urgent to me. And that's why if you're a new listener, I want to take a moment and intentionally, purposefully welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am thrilled that you're here for this conversation.

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And so what I am committing to doing, and I've now already done it, I did it this morning, is I did a Google search, picture wall services. Turns out there's a lot of them. There's a lot of places online that can help you organize a wall of photos on your wall. I had no idea this was a thing. I guess I'm not the only idiot that's struggling with this.

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I also found a retail store in Boston that provides this service. I'm not going to name them because they're not a sponsor of the show, but I found it. And in 15 minutes flat, I also was able to look in my calendar and find a Sunday, which is normally the day that I travel down from our home in Vermont down to Boston ahead of the weeks where we tape our expert interviews for the show.

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So I found this Sunday. And I figured out a Sunday where I could come in earlier than I normally drive in and I made an appointment. Oh my God, I actually made an appointment. This is going down in three weeks from now. How freaking cool is it? I actually have an appointment. I've actually planned it in my calendar.

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I not only made the appointment, I was smart enough to realize I'm probably going to be there for four hours because I'm going to show up with this box that's been by my desk for four years and my folders that I've got of all my favorite photos online and I'm going to get started. Do you know how liberated I feel? You now get to decide what matters to you.

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This is like the theme of the week for you. And what's super cool is you don't have to do it right then. Just flip open your calendar and say, where's a 15 minute block that I could work on this? If you just get that block in, I'm going to pick up the guitar and I'm going to schedule it right here. And I'm going to schedule it for this period. My classes get out at three o'clock.

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I'm going to walk back to my dorm room and by 3.30, I'm going to be sitting there with my guitar in my hand. And make sure to put it in your calendar and make sure to put an alarm on it. Because again, the world is designed and is trying to steal your joy, your time, your energy, and your focus. This checklist and these simple little tools help you take it back.

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When you get those things done, you do feel liberated. You do feel more in control. And there's a lot of research around this. And it taps into something called the progress principle. And if you and I have been hanging out for a while or you've read either the five second rule or the high five habit, or you've been listening to the podcast, you've probably heard me talk about this.

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But I want to unpack this because the progress principle is one of the key principles that is foundational to my success. It's foundational to the way that I approach productivity, and this will change your life. And I want to tell you about how this comes from amazing research that has been done at Harvard Business School.

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There was a study at Harvard Business School where they found that one of the most important things that you can do every single week is to have this sense that you're moving forward on things that matter to you. Now, it's important to say they didn't say that one of the most important things you can do is to get a ton of things done on your checklist, did they? No, they didn't say that.

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And because you made time to listen to this particular episode, I know that you're the type of person who values your time. You want to use it wisely. And here's what I'm going to tell you. This episode values your time too, because I'm going to teach you how to take your time back from a world who is stealing it.

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They said, based on the research... The most important thing is simply to feel like you made progress. And this is a critical difference because you're probably so focused on getting things done that you're missing where the real juice is. So you don't know what to squeeze. See, the researchers at Harvard Business School, they looked at 12,000 accounts.

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What they did is they had people who were working across seven different companies in different industries. They had them keep these journals about what they were focusing on during the week. And when they crunched all the data on 12,000 people across seven different companies, Do you want to know what they found?

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That the most common event that triggered someone saying, boy, I just had, quote, the best day, was that they made progress in some important work, either personally or with the team. Progress. The best day was not when they got the project done. The best day was feeling like, oh, I was actually able to make some progress on something that's important. This makes sense, doesn't it?

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I mean, just think about it. Have you ever had to paint a room? I mean, hasn't everybody? I feel like I've painted my entire house, every apartment I've ever lived in. My poor parents, every time Chris and I moved, I'd be like, come visit. And they'd show up and be like, okay, let's go to Home Depot and get some paintbrushes. We're going to paint. Doesn't it feel good to just cut out the edges?

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Like it almost feels better to make progress and get the edges cut than getting the whole thing done. See, here's the thing that they found based on the research. Simply moving the ball forward, simply spending 15 minutes, simply making a small amount of progress.

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I'm talking, you made the phone call, you made the appointment, you watched the video, you picked up the guitar, you actually sat on hold and had one more conversation that is going to help you eventually solve the healthcare claim. Progress creates more positive emotions in you

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See, you're in a more upbeat mood in general, and you also feel this sense of joy and warmth and pride when you know you're actually moving things forward. you also kind of have this sense of motivation. You feel more naturally motivated and interested in what you're doing when you make progress. It's almost like a little bit of forward motion keeps you feeling like you want to keep it in motion.

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And that's what you're going to also find. I guarantee you, if you find 15 minutes to start working on that bookcase, you'll probably do it for 30 or 40 minutes. Because it's not the actual project that is difficult. It's carving out the time and getting yourself started and moving a little bit forward in a world that is constantly screaming at you for your attention.

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I'm going to teach you how to take your energy and your focus and your joy back from a world that is designed to rob you of it. That's right. You heard me right. I mean, have you stopped to think about how you are now living in a moment in history where everything about the world today It is purposefully stealing your time. You've heard the phrase, time is money.

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Alrighty, well, that covers three of the items on our checklist of seven things that make for a great week. And is this fun? I mean, who knew that a brain dump could be so fun? And I'm sure you're already starting to feel a little lighter knowing, oh, I'm going to cross things off. I'm going to get to circle things. Who knew this was arts and crafts?

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Well, we're just getting started because we still have four, five, six, and seven to cover. You're going to love these just as much as the first three. I'm going to explain it after a short break. I want you to take a listen to our sponsors and also... Share this with the people that you care about because everybody deserves to have a great week.

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And I know you're thinking, wait, where can I get that checklist? MelRobbins.com slash week. Don't go anywhere. We're going to unpack so much more when we return. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are going through the seven items on a checklist for having a great week. We have already dug deep into number one, which is a brain dump.

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Number two, which is where you cross things off and free yourself of the burden of carrying all this stuff around that you're not going to do. And number three, we've discussed you finding the one thing that jumps out at you this week

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that's meaningful to you, you're gonna find your hot 15, those 15 minutes where you're just committing to make a little progress, a step forward, move the ball down the field. As I already explained to you, for me, that was simply Googling photo wall services, picture wall services. I got a little bit more completed than I thought. I'm feeling great. You will too.

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That brings me to number four on our checklist for having a great week. And this one has some awesome research around it too. You're gonna love this. So while you're standing there with the calendar open and you've done all these amazing things and you got the hot 15 scheduled, I want you to scan the week ahead And here's what you're going to do next. Because item number four is plan your meals.

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And I'm only going to ask you to plan one. Let me unpack this. I'm not trying to get you on a diet or have you lose weight. That's not what this is about. This is about having a great week. And one of the things that I've learned and one of the things that the expert after expert after expert comes on to this podcast and says is that food is medicine.

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And what you put in your body fuels your body and fuels your mindset. And one of the mistakes that I used to make is I used to let this happen by accident. You know, literally, I would not plan out the week. I would go to the grocery store with the rest of the planet every Saturday. I would be hungry, which basically means you're buying everything that looks good to eat right now.

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I do not have a plan. I'm just filling up the cart. Half of the stuff that I buy is probably going to spoil it. And if you're kind of nodding your head or you're in that rut where you door dash every meal, you never cook, you don't have anything in your fridge, you get to work, you work till lunch, then you go, what am I eating? How about we stop that?

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Because one way to have a great week is to actually put on the checklist and Meal prep. And meal prep in the Mel Robbins world is not meal prep on Instagram, okay? You do not have to make 75 meals. You do not have to prep high protein stuff. I'm talking about planning in one simple way so that you have a great week. And here's what this looks like. You're gonna have your calendar out.

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Well, so is your energy, your focus, your joy. I mean, the headlines make you feel helpless. Work is endless. Social media, oh my gosh, doom scrolling. Stealing joy, stealing time, stealing energy. And your friend Mel Robbins, I'm going to tell you something. You have to wake up and take your power back.

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Just scan the week and then say to yourself, What could I actually plan ahead? And there's so many ways that this could look. It's incredible. You might have the kind of week that is so nutso that the only thing that you can do is make a brunch reservation for Saturday after you army crawl your way through this week. you're good. If you've planned that meal and it makes you happy, you're good.

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This could look like looking at the week and if you have a roommate or you live with a significant other or you're married like I am or you have kids that are living at home that can actually cook or adults that are living back at home, it might look like going, oh, check this out. On Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday, We're all here.

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Why don't we figure out what we're going to have for dinner that night and actually look and say, okay, I'm going to make spaghetti on Monday night. I'm going to roast a chicken on Wednesday. I'm going to try this new recipe on Thursday. And then... Write out the ingredients that you need so that when you go to the grocery store, it's not like a traumatic experience.

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You're literally, you got a plan, you got your list, you know, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. Another tip that I loved is that whenever I do cook or whenever my husband and I get together and we say, okay, you're going to take Monday, you're going to take Wednesday. What I love about it is we double the recipe. And then that means we got dinner or lunch covered for the next day.

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And when you do this, you feel more in control of the week. I mean, this has been a big thing for me and my husband because we are now officially, what's the term? Empty nesters. I prefer bird launchers because they always fly back. But right now it's just Chris and I, the two dogs and the cat.

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And what has happened because I kind of slacked off on my checklist and I didn't think about the meal planning is night after night, Chris and I literally emerge in the kitchen at like 6.45 after a day of both sitting separately. I'm above the garage working on the podcast and the Let Them Theory. He's down in his office working on his men's retreat, soul degree. We're basically busy all day.

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And then we wander into the kitchen at 6.45. And because life has stolen our time, our energy, our joy, and our focus, we both look at each other and we're like, what are we having for dinner? I don't know. I don't know. You playing? I don't know. And now it's 6.45 at night. We don't live in a part of the world where restaurants are open past 8 p.m., so that's out the window.

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Now we're opening up the pantry, and I'm like, breakfast for dinner again? I guess it's breakfast for dinner again. And I'll be honest, I'm kind of annoyed because we don't have anything planned. And whose responsibility is it to plan? Both of ours.

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And if you want a great week, you don't want to walk into the kitchen and feel like when you open the fridge, the only thing that you see in there is a mirage in a desert because you haven't gone to the grocery store and you haven't planned this. So that's what you're going to do as part of the checklist. This is item number four. And it could also look like this.

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And if somebody forwarded this episode to you and recommended that you listen to it, I want to remind you of something. You have people in your life that care about you. You have people in your life that believe that your time and energy is valuable. That is a very cool thing. And you're now with your friend Mel, and I believe your time and energy is valuable.

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So last week I was in Boston all week and I don't know what it was that got me all excited. Oh, I know what it was. It was this checklist. I pulled out this checklist and I was going to be traveling to Boston. And as I looked at the calendar and I'm thinking, I am going to be living in a hotel five days a week.

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Every day we bring lunch into the studio and I know that the team's going to ask me, what do you want to eat? And I'm going to be like, hmm. And I thought, well, why don't I just make something? Why don't I make a soup that I love and just load it up into Tupperware and then eat it every day for lunch? Why not just meal prep for this big work week?

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I'll tell you what, I made my favorite thing to make. Our daughter, Kendall, found it online. It is fantastic. It's like chicken and spinach and jalapenos and scallions and ginger and garlic. And it's like health in a bowl. And you put rice in there and chicken broth and it's like so fantastic. And so I make this thing and then I put it in a huge Tupperware dish. And this is a funny thing.

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I literally... put it on the floor of the passenger side of my car. Thank God I have rubber mats. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I am so organized. I'm so productive. I'm going to be so healthy. I'm driving down to Boston for a big production week to interview all the experts. And as I'm driving down, I'm talking to friends and catching up with people. I get to the parking lot at the studio and

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And I parked the car and I walk around and open up the passenger side. The freaking thing had leaked all over the front of the car. Thank God I didn't put it on the seat. Thank God it was on the rubber mat. But literally an inch of the soup was now on the rubber mat, bright green. I'm like, oh my gosh.

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Anywho, that doesn't matter because I got it upstairs, washed it off because of course it was all sloppy and I didn't want to put it in the fridge. And... I had it all week. And everybody, you would have thought that I had shown up at the studio having lost 100 pounds and having six-pack abs. Everyone was like, what did you do? Oh my gosh, that looks so good. You're eating that.

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That looks amazing. Everybody wanted the recipe. It truly changed my life. And, you know, I'm kind of making a joke of it, but here's the other thing that happened for me.

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Now, I'm serious about this. And it's crept up on all of us. Like you may have had this kind of feeling or you've been wondering, why am I exhausted all the time? Why do I never have time for myself? Why can't I focus? Why can't I make progress on something that's important to me? Well, I'll tell you why. It's because the world is designed

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Because I had taken the time to go through the checklist and I had decided that one way I was going to take care of meals this week and my food, and food is medicine and food is fuel, was to make this soup and just take care of my lunches, is that it's a really healthy soup. And it's a really filling thing.

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And not only did I feel less stressed and I felt more focused, but the team kind of noticed it. My executive producer, Tracy, the one who still needs to organize her bookshelf, literally was like, you need to make that soup every single week because your body clearly runs well on it. And you're just like dialed in. You would come out of one interview, Now you're eating your soup that you prepared.

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And so thank you for making the time to listen to this because the seven things on the checklist that I'm about to share with you, these are the secret, the foundational building blocks to you taking your power back from a world that is trying to steal it and purposefully, purposefully putting in place the seven things that will help you create a great week.

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Now you're ready to do the next thing. It was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, because I'm taking away the decisions and I've actually set myself up to be fueled by something that tastes great and is gonna help me perform. And so now that I've done it, I don't know that I'm ever gonna go a week without trying to prep something that sets me up for success.

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And that's why I want you to do it too, because based on the research, and the research is really interesting around this, People who take the time to prep their meals, and again, the bar is low for you and me. If you just prep one meal this week, you're winning.

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People who plan their meals, the research says you have better nutrition, you maintain a healthier weight, you save money, and it's better for your mental health. No joke. The research has shown that people who take the time to prep meals for the week have lower stress. Why? Because they have it covered. It makes sense, doesn't it?

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And again, this is one of those things, and every one of the things on the checklist is clear and obvious and sort of a duh, but because you have so much going on and because of the state of the world, I think we have forgotten the basics that actually made life good. And so do this. I mean, one pot of soup versus four takeout meals?

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way less money, better mental health, because you got no decision fatigue and you know that in doing this, you're taking care of yourself. And check this out, people who prep their meals have lower stress because they've covered something that can be a source of stress.

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And don't you also notice that if you wander into the kitchen at seven o'clock at night and it's takeout yet again, it's kind of stressful. And if it's takeout, it's not gonna be that healthy. Certainly not as healthy as what you can make in your own home.

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All right, we're not done with the checklist, but this is a good moment to hit pause and give our amazing sponsors a chance to say a few words. And while you're listening, share this with somebody that you care about. Everybody deserves to have a great week. And again, it doesn't happen by accident. It happens on purpose.

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And you make it happen on purpose by following this checklist and planning for it. And so we got a lot more to cover. Don't go anywhere. I'll be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I'm so fired up that you chose to make time to listen to this because this is the simple seven-part checklist to having a great week.

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Now let's move on to checklist item number five. One workout. That's it. Because that's another thing that makes up a great week. Can you just get one great workout in? That's all I'm asking. Not five, not seven, not three, one. If you want to do more, yay for you. You're fantastic. And you might be going, Mel, why just one great workout?

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Well, first of all, if you're not working out because you don't have the time, because of course you wouldn't, you live in a moment in history when the world is designed to steal your time and your attention and your energy and your joy. So if you can't find the time to get that great workout in, then it's not actually a habit for you yet.

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And so it's never gonna be realistic if you feel like you don't have any time to say, oh, I'm gonna work out every day. All I'm asking you to do find one good workout, okay? One, because you can do that. You might not even be able to do it during the week, but you could do it over the weekend.

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I mean, have you ever had one of those weekends where you go away with friends or you are planning to do something in the city that you live in? Like, let's say you live in New York City and you decide you're gonna walk the loop at Central Park. That's six miles. And you do it with a friend. And that takes like a couple hours. You look back on that weekend as one of the best weekends of the year.

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Why? Well, because you were out doing something. That's available to you now and you can get it in if you plan. And if you say, all I'm asking of myself is one, one really good workout, one of my favorite yoga classes, just one. You know, I'm about to head to Los Angeles and there's a studio there that I love because it's dark and hot and sweaty and I love the music.

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And when I go through the seven things on this checklist, I'm going to warn you. This is not like some super fancy, intellectual, crazy, complicated thing. On the surface, every one of the seven things is gonna be like, oh, well, that's a low bar, but they're so deep and so profound. The research you're about to hear is going to not only make every one of the seven things feel urgent,

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you better believe I'm checking the box on this checklist and I am going to head to that yoga studio and be in that class and I can't wait. And the other reason why I'm saying just one awesome workout, because there's research around the power of one workout. Even if it's just 15 minutes. Remember how I talked about the hot 15? Yes, one 15-minute workout makes a big difference in your health.

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This research comes from the University of Sydney, and the research was done in collaboration with institutions around the world, and it was published in the European Heart Journal. Now, this study enrolled, check this out, 72,000 people. and it tracked their physical activity over five years. So we're talking big study.

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And in the published findings, even the people who only did 15 minutes per week of vigorous physical activity had a 17% lower risk of death from any cause and death from cancer compared with people who did nothing. And with about 50 minutes per week, Death from any cause, reduced by 36%. But if you can get just 15 minutes in, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And how are you going to get that in?

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You're not going to do it while you're standing there with your brain dump and your things you've crossed off and the thing that you've circled and your meal planning. You're going to plan for it. And here's why.

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Because when you look ahead at the week, I bet you can find an afternoon or a morning where you can find time to go for a walk or you can ping a friend and say, hey, I'm going to go to this yoga class or I'm going to go to this CrossFit thing. Do you want to go with me? And one of my favorite hacks to make sure I get this in is if I'm going to stream a class ahead of time,

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I take the link to the class and I actually put it in my electronic calendar with an alarm. That way, when it comes time to exercise, I'm not searching for that thing that I thought I would do. In fact, I have exercised the last two mornings in a row because I selected a Matt Pilates class when I did this checklist last weekend. And two days ago and yesterday, I'm like, I can find the time.

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I can do it at 2.30 in the afternoon. And I scheduled it in my calendar and I put the link in there. And that way, when the alarm went off, I'm like, oh, and there's a class I'm going to take. Isn't that cool? That's so cool. Just one workout a week helps make it a great week. Love that. You know what else I love? The sixth thing that makes for a great week, plan time for rest.

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Just find one moment. of quiet for you. That's all I'm asking. You've opened up the calendar and you've found time for that one thing that you're gonna make progress on. And now you've layered in what you're gonna plan for your meals to the extent you're gonna do that.

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And you found the one day that you're gonna do exercise and what it is and what you're gonna be doing and what time, all of that's taken care of. Now what I want you to look for is I want you to find a moment of quiet. That's it. Can you pick a night after work where you can just do something for you? My only requirement is that you're not looking at your phone. That's it. You got to rest.

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Could you make a cup of tea? Do you have a book that you're reading that you would love to just sit down in your favorite chair and do that instead of turning on the TV or doom scrolling? What constitutes rest is not being on your device. And this is hard because it's very weird.

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One of the reasons why we doom scroll on social media and hours can go by is because it kind of lulls you into this trance and we mistake it for rest. That's not rest at all. It's actually keeping your brain really wigged out and active and keeping your nervous system on edge and screwing with your dopamine. That's what it's doing. So that's not rest. What I'm talking about is scan your calendar.

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And I want you to find a time this week where you can give your brain and your body a little rest. And here's some ideas. Could you carve out a half an hour? Just take a bath. Or stand in a hot shower a little longer than you normally do. Could you have a cup of tea? Or make a mocktail? and sit down in a chair and do nothing?

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Could you pack up a towel and walk over to a park and just lay it out and lay down on the grass and just look up at the sky and watch the clouds? Could you go for a walk in the woods with the dogs? That's what my husband does. I think those are his moments of walking meditation and solitude and a reset. But don't take your phone. Don't be listening to anything.

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If you have your phone, keep it in your pocket. Don't be looking at it. Just be outdoors. How about picking up the guitar? And just strumming for the sake of playing music and resting or sitting down at the piano and just playing. Or if you're somebody that loves crafting, I mean, I'm a big knitter.

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it's gonna make you know why they matter. And you're also gonna go, oh, well, I'm not currently doing these things. No wonder I feel powerless. No wonder I have no time. No wonder my energy is drained. And I can't wait to share this with you because you can do every single thing on this checklist.

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When's the last time that you knitted anything or you picked up your needlepoint project or you picked up your paintbrushes? I mean, if you're like me, you think that rest gets nothing done and therefore you don't want to do it. You think that you got to always be doing something.

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Well, I want to tell you a little bit about the research on this, because the research says that if you are resting, you're just sitting there, feet are up, reading the paper, or just letting the cat sit on your lap. If you're doing that, you're getting something incredibly important done. First of all, you're reducing your stress levels.

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This comes from a study from the University of Konstanz in Germany. They found that a short period of rest, even just 10 minutes, can activate your body's parasympathetic nervous system. Now, why do you want to activate your parasympathetic nervous system? I know, I know it's a big word. Parasympathetic nervous system is basically your calm, resting, confident state.

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This is the opposite of fight, flight, or freeze. Your parasympathetic nervous system is just this rest and digest. That's what you'll hear the medical experts say. And it helps you counteract your stress response. And see, your stress response is on all day long. So the first thing that happens when you put your feet up and you just rest is that it reduces stress levels.

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you are intentionally flipping the switch between the world that is stealing your energy and stressing you out and your inner world where you have the capability of resting and putting yourself back into a de-stress state. Pretty cool, huh? What's the second thing that you're doing while you rest? You're increasing your mental clarity and focus.

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Now this is research from Harvard Medical School that found that activities like mindful meditation, gives you mental clarity and focus. I mean, the fact is, you need to give your brain a boot. It's just like turning your phone off. How many times has your phone been like, turn the thing off, give it a reset, and then you power it back up? You're the exact same thing.

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So when you're resting, you're actually increasing your ability to process things, to face the rest of the day. And the third thing that rest does, well, it improves your physical and emotional health. A study from the National Institutes of Health and University of California found that allowing yourself time to relax can lead to better physical health and prevent stress-related illnesses.

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This is one that in today's world, we do not do. And if you do not prioritize it, the world will steal it from you. And so if you feel burnt out, if you feel constantly on edge, if you feel chronically overwhelmed, you're procrastinating so much, you're gonna tell yourself, you don't have time to rest. I'm gonna tell you, you can't afford to not rest.

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And the checklist is what makes this research that you're about to hear from Harvard Medical School, Harvard Business School, all of these incredible studies that have been done around the world. It makes all of this knowledge actionable and doable.

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you gotta take this part of your critical life and health back. And the only way it's going to happen is if every weekend you look at this checklist and you're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta fight back. I gotta do this act of defiance. I gotta rest in a world that is telling me I need to be constantly doing something. That's not true. That's not true.

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And this checklist is what's gonna help you start to make this a part of your week. And when you make this a part of your week, you're gonna have a great week. And that brings me to the seventh thing that is going to be part of your great week. And it is the seventh item on the checklist. You got to connect with somebody. Okay.

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So while you're still standing there and you've got the calendar out, and again, you've already gone through and done your brain dump. You have set yourself free. You've circled the thing that's meaningful to you. You found your hot 15 and scheduled it in for when you know you're going to make progress on it. You have identified the one lousy meal you're going to make.

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And if you make more, fantastic. You have also identified the one workout you're going to do and you've put it in the calendar. You have also identified why rest is important and you've actually scheduled time to do nothing.

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fantastic put your feet up you earned it and by the way what you just learned is why you got your feet up you're doing three important things that you really need go you see it's a great week and finally icing on the cake you ready connect with someone that's number seven look at that calendar when can you connect with somebody do you have time to meet for a coffee

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I mean, are you even leaving the house these days? Do you know I went five days, I was sick, but I went five days last week and I didn't even leave my house. So if that's you, I'm the same kind of person. I like my house and I also can just get so stuck in here because I'm always working or busy doing something that then I'm like, oh my God, I haven't left the house.

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Can you take a walk with somebody? Because it's not just the people that you see on Zoom or at work that matter. What about the people in your life that bring you meaning? And so if you look at your calendar, now you can find a time to either invite somebody over for dinner, Or go out for dinner. Or go for a walk. Or make a date to go to a museum. Or go meet for coffee.

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And before I jump in, and I cannot wait to jump in because I can't wait for you to take your power back and start having great weeks again, I know you're going to be going, oh my gosh, slow down, Mel. Do I need to write these down? I want to make this so easy for you. I want you to have a great week every week. So I have a one-page download for you that you can print out.

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Or go meet for, like, go do something. Go walk your dogs together. And the reason why this is cool is because if you have the time, oh, I'm going to go to this yoga class. This is how you can get a twofer in. I'm going to go to this yoga class. You want to come? Now that you have the time in mind, now you can reach out to somebody and say, would you like to meet up for coffee?

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Would you like to get together and cook dinner? Would you like to go do this volunteer thing with me? And because you have this spot in your calendar, you can now make it happen. So I've mentioned that I often will go down to Boston. We tape all of our expert interviews one week a month.

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And so we do a huge production week and I'll drive down the night before the production week starts, which means I have hours and hours in the car. And you know what I love about that drive? The entire time I'm in cell range, I literally call old friends. And it's not the same people every week. I use the drive as a way to catch up with people.

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And it is so freaking cool to be able to catch up with people that way. I feel so connected to a lot of people because I use driving time as a way to just call somebody. And oftentimes you'll find that you're like, well, I don't have a lot of time. No problem. Call them. And when they pick up, be like, I was just thinking about you. I only have seven minutes.

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And then I'm going to lose cell reception or seven minutes and I'm going to get to where I'm going. And you can catch up and cover a lot of ground in just seven minutes. Another tip that's helped me a lot is, remember how I referred earlier to the fact that a good zone for me to find that hot 15 is...

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to arrive at my desk about a half an hour before the workday is going to start and to use that time at my desk to make progress on something. It's also a time where I will send a text or an email to somebody I've been thinking about. And it really does help. Or it's a time where I'll send a quick text to somebody saying, hey, I'm going to be in LA and I'm going to this yoga class.

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Do you want to go? And this has helped me stay connected to people. And this really matters. It really matters. First of all, because I know you don't see your friends as much as you want to. And it matters because making friends and keeping friends tight as an adult is really challenging because everybody's super busy and everybody's drained and everybody's moving in a million directions.

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And so it's really hard to organize. But this matters. And if you don't go through this checklist regularly, at the beginning of every week and plan for it, the connection starts to fade and you start to feel like you don't see your friends and you don't have friends.

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And it's not true, they're there, but you have to, in a world that's gonna steal your time and energy and joy and focus, you have to steal it back.

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And the reason why this matters so much that you find a moment every week to either connect with somebody on the phone or connect with them in person, it relates to the most important study that's ever been done on human connection and happiness of all time. I'm sure you've heard of it. It is called the Harvard Study of Adult Development. This study started in 1938.

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You can hang it on your fridge. You can put it on your desk. You can put it on your dresser. It's free. Just go to melrobbins.com slash week. That's it. MelRobbins.com slash week. Put in your email. I'll email you a download. Boom. Now you got the checklist for every week.

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It is still continuing to this day. It is one of the largest running studies on human happiness and health. It's been running for over 80 years, and it's given scientists and you and me profound insights into what actually are the factors that contribute to a fulfilling life. So what did they find about studying health and happiness in human beings for 80 years?

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Well, let me give you the findings in a nutshell. So Dr. Robert Waldinger is the fourth director of the study. He's been on this podcast. He's actually one of the favorite experts that has ever appeared on the show. And Dr. Waldinger said that the study is conclusive. You need relationships to make you happy and healthy. And the key findings are undisputed.

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Number one, close relationships, more than wealth, more than fame, more than anything, are crucial for you to have a happy and healthy life. So that's why we're gonna put them on the checklist. And relationships protect you from life's challenges. They help delay mental and physical decline.

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Participants in this 80-year-long study that had strong social ties, they experienced longer, healthier lives compared to those who were less connected. People who were lonely and didn't make it a priority. They didn't have it on the checklist. They had it in the back of their mind. Oh, I need to call so-and-so. But again, remember, you have to get it out on paper You have to plan for it.

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Otherwise, it's not happening. People who were lonely had earlier health decline and were less satisfied with their life. And as I'm saying this, aren't you kind of thinking to yourself, well, this is why the week gets away from me. It's true. Like it's kind of one of those conversations when you're like, Mel, you're just reminding me of what I know. You do know all of this. I know it too.

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But it's so easy to have your time and what's important robbed from your attention. And instead, you find your days just filled with this meaningless nonsense or other people's emergencies or your energy drained by stupid stuff. It's happened to me. And I love this checklist because you can come back to it over and over and over again.

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And I want you to have the checklist because when you see it, it will remind you, oh, these are the seven things I need to check off. And if I check off these things, then I can plan to have a great week. But here's what we're going to do.

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And this checklist summarizes into action the foundational research that creates the building blocks to not only a great week, but a much better life. You can find this checklist at melrobbins.com slash week, but I'm going to walk you through it real quick. First brain dump, free yourself by crossing it off. Choose one thing and schedule the hot 15. Plan one meal that you're going to cook.

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Plan one workout. Plan one moment that it's time for rest and intentionally plan the time when you're going to connect with someone. You do that, you put it in your calendar, you check that list, you are having not a great week, but a fantastic one. I promise you. And don't just take my word for it.

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You can count on it because of all the research that supports everything that I'm telling you and everything that I'm doing in my own life. And what's also interesting about this checklist is that the weeks that I have a terrible week, guess what? I can look back and see that I didn't do any of these or I only did one or two of them.

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This truly is the guarantee and the checklist to make the next week of your life a little bit better, a little bit brighter. And if you do all seven, I actually think your week is going to be way better than you think it's going to be. And you deserve that. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you.

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that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And what's interesting about creating a better life is that you don't do that over the course of years. You do that with the decisions that you make every day. And everything that you learn today is something you're capable of doing It's something that you know how to do.

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Regardless of the day of the week that you're listening, regardless if it's a good week or it's a lame week or it's a hell week or it's an amazing week, I want you to listen to the entire conversation right now with me. I want you to learn and absorb everything.

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It's something that I think deep in your heart you know actually works. And that's why I'm so excited, not only to see what happens in your life, but I'm also excited to see what happens in the lives of everybody that you share this with when you use this episode as a way to connect with them and you share this with them as well. I just think the ripple effect is going to be incredible.

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And so thank you for taking the time to listen. Thank you for spending this time together with me. Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about and want to connect with. And I'll talk to you in a few days. And in fact, I'm going to be waiting for you in the very next episode. I'll be there to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

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Can you hand me my yellow notebook so I can open it up and be like, it's over there. Do you see that yellow? Oh shit, I bet it's, is it downstairs or in there? Okay. Will you throw me a fat Sharpie marker? Is it right there? You don't have to go downstairs. Okay. Yep. Great. Okay. So here's what I'm doing. Here's how I'm using my hot 15.

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I scheduled 15 minutes in my calendar this week to just find a Sunday where I can... Okay, hold on a second. Let me just find this. Two words that haunt me. Picture wall. I know. I didn't say it correctly. Picture wall. I can't say that word. I'm from the Midwest. You maintain a healthier weight. You save... Oops. Do you need me, Jesse? Yeah, hold on. We're dealing with dogs. Thanks, Jesse.

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I'm so excited that you decided to listen to this episode. You know, it's always such an honor to be able to spend time, to be together with you. Hold on, I got something in my nose. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

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This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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I want you to truly embrace the truth, the simplicity, and the brilliance of what I'm about to say to you that having a great week isn't what you think it is. Having a great week is a combination of seven simple things. And I'm gonna unpack all of them.

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But I wanna make sure that you understand, before you try to implement it, the whole process, the research, the step-by-step stuff, you're gonna be nodding along, you're gonna be thinking of a million people you need to send this to, so be generous with it.

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And listen, and then you can go to melrobbins.com slash week and get the one page download so that you're reminded of everything we talked about and then you can implement it. I'm gonna do all the heavy lifting. I wanna set you up for success because you chose to hit play. You chose to make the time for this. And so by God, I'm not only gonna make this fun to listen to,

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to steal your time and energy from social media to the crazy headlines that make you feel helpless to endless work to to-do lists that never end.

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you are going to feel so excited about the week ahead of you because you're gonna have the seven item checklist that's gonna make it great. All right, you ready to jump in? Me too. Let's start with number one. And the very first thing on the checklist to creating a great week is you gotta do a brain dump. Now I know what you're thinking. What is a brain dump? It is as simple as it sounds.

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You're going to take everything that's up in your brain that's weighing you down and you are going to get it out of your brain and dump it onto a piece of paper. It is the equivalent of mental vomiting. You're just going to put it all out on paper. I have done this for years.

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And for years, the way that I have used a brain dump is anytime I feel overwhelmed or I start to feel like I'm starting to ruminate or if you get a case of the Sunday scaries and you're starting to dread the week ahead or you feel like you've got a lot to do and you didn't get it done over the weekend, you need a brain dump. And here's what you do.

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You take out a piece of paper and you just start writing down everything that is in your head. And it's going to be random stuff. Like it is fascinating how much you actually carry upstairs in your mind and you're probably not even aware of it. Because you're going to start writing things like, I got to pick up the dry cleaning. I got to make lasagna. I got to call my mother.

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I mean, I'm sure that there are so many weeks where you just crawl through your week and you get across the finish line and then you collapse over the weekend and the next thing you know, my God, it's Sunday night and you have the Sunday scaries and you're just right back in it again. You're just trying to survive. I know I've been there.

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I've got to finish that presentation at work. I need to finish reading that chapter. I got to clean out the drawer in my bathroom. And it's going to go, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. You might have to put down, I got to stop crying. It's going to be unbelievable. I got to buy the birthday present for that friend of mine. I got to call that friend back. It is incredible.

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Once you rip that seal open, how much is going to come pouring out of your mind and onto a piece of paper? And one of the reasons why a brain dump is so liberating is because, first of all, every time you write something down, you feel a little space in your mind free up. It's really cool.

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The second thing that you're going to notice is, holy cow, I actually carry a lot around and you're going to be kind of impressed with your mental capacity. And it's also going to show you, no wonder I can't focus on anything because I've been walking around up here with clean out the back closet and don't forget to call your sister and you got to pick up that thing.

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Oh, you know, one thing that's on my brain dump is is we went on a family trip for my dad's 80th birthday. And one of the things that I've been carrying around ever since is I gotta get the photo album done. I gotta get that photo album done. You know how you do like one of those family photo albums with an online print photo thing? I gotta get that done. Gotta get that laid out.

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Gotta get everybody to contribute their photos to the family album. I am carrying that around. And so you're just going to brain dump it out. In fact, I did one yesterday and I used an entirely new approach. So I want to show it to you. Normally what I do is I dump it on one piece of paper. That's step one. Just get it out, get it out, get it out, get it out. It might take you 15 minutes.

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And then what you'll notice is 30 minutes from now, you're going to see that thing and be like, oh, there's that thing that I forgot. I forgot that I needed to do that thing at work. And so let me put that down. Oh, I forgot that I needed to send that email. Let me put that down.

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Oh, I forgot that I need to pull my sweater out of the washing machine and hang it up so that my roommate doesn't throw it in the dryer and then shrink my sweater into a Barbie size thing. And so you've got all of this upstairs and

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So yesterday I did one of these because a brain dump is always number one on the checklist for how I set myself up to have a great week because we don't want to carry that with us, right? We want to get all that out so we have a clear head and we also have a sense of what's actually important on paper. So yesterday, check this out.

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Yesterday, I was so overwhelmed because I'm about to go on a business trip to Los Angeles. So that means I got to pack, which always throws me into a complete frenzy. So yesterday, I decided, here's what I'm going to do. Instead of putting it on one sheet, I got three big Post-it notes out. I'm going to show you them. Actually, I'm going to show you one of them right now.

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I did something about it and I want you to do something about it. See, I'm going to share with you this simple checklist that I created to help me take my power and my weeks back. And I am so excited to share this with you because it is this summary of things that I've been researching for a decade, teaching on corporate stages about happiness and productivity and focus.

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Because normally what I do is I'll put the brain dump, because I know you're going to ask. I'm holding up if you're listening. I'm holding up just a garden variety notebook and I keep this by my desk. I'm not going to show you this because I do not want you to actually zoom in on the insanity that is my mind that I write in here.

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But I'll often be at a meeting and work and I'll draw a line down the right-hand side of the paper and literally start a little brained up there. It's not a to-do list. Very important, not a to-do list. I have no intention of getting any of this stuff done. I'm just dumping it down on paper to get it out of my brain because I'm starting to notice that I'm swirling and I'm getting overwhelmed.

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So again, very important to understand that a brain dump, not a to-do list. Here's another notebook. This one's prettier, I know, even has my name on it, Mel. This one is the notebook that I use for like my therapy notes and important things. But occasionally, oh, there's a brain dump there. There's sketching of something that I want to redesign at my house.

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Oh, here's another brain dump right here. Here's another, wow. I got a lot of brain dumps in this fancy notebook. But again, it's not a to-do list. And that's what's so liberating about this. You're actually just creating space in your mind. But that brings me to how did I do it yesterday? This is a level up on the Mel Robbins brain dump. Let me tell you.

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What I did is I have these kind of big post-it notes. I literally... Put three post-it notes out on the island right here. Check this out. And I put work at the top of one, and then I put personal, and then I put home. So it was work, personal, and home. And I put them on the counter in the kitchen. And all day long, it was the most liberating thing over the weekend.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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I would just walk past and be like, oh yeah. I got to get ready for the speech I'm giving for Microsoft. Oh, yeah. I got to remember to pack three microphones for LA. Oh, yeah. I got to make sure to do this thing that's not going to make any sense to you, but the code is MAP and the blueprint and map it to the marketing ops job, which means absolutely nothing, but it means something to me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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And more importantly, now that it's on this little post-it note, it is not in my brain. And that's what you need. And so whether you start... this checklist by just taking out a piece of paper that is from your printer paper, or a spiral bound notebook, or your journal, or you use this three post-it note system, work, home, and personal, and you just keep it out. Keep it out.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And you just are dumping it out. That's what you're doing. And one of the things that you're going to notice, and this is where things get liberating, is especially the things that were on my list for home, 99% of the stuff on my list is not happening this week. And yet I'm carrying it around in my head. I'm not going to organize my bathroom drawers right now. That's not what I'm going to do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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I am not going to go through the pantry and find everything that's expired and actually get rid of it. That's not what I'm going to do. In fact, you want to know what's come up on my to-do list for home over and over and over and over again? I'm almost embarrassed to tell you this because I've talked about this on social media. I think I've talked about this on the podcast before.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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And I've boiled it down into this super simple seven item checklist. that will help you fight back against a world that's stealing your time, your energy, and joy. Enough. The fact is, you can take control of this, and you need to.

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But what comes up every single time I do a brain dump? Every weekend, literally. I have lived in this house in Southern Vermont for four years. We don't have a single photo of anyone in our family hanging on any wall. Not one, not one. Four years I have lived here, four years, and not a single photo of our family hanging on any of the walls.

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The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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And so every single time I do a brain dump, do you wanna know the two words that ends up on that single piece of paper or this weekend in my elevated home brain dump list? Picture wall. I mean, I know you have something like this. In fact, as we were talking as a team about this, our executive producer, Tracy, was like, oh my God, I can't believe you just said that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The 7-Day Reset for More Time, Energy, & Happiness (Backed by Science)

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My husband and I have lived in this apartment for almost a year. I am sitting next to a shelf that still has baggies on it. It is on my to-do list to organize the shelf. I'm not going to get this done this week. And I'm like, exactly. Exactly. And you still need to dump it on the brain dump list because this is not a to-do list.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad that you pressed play and that you're listening to this conversation right now because you and I are going to talk about something incredibly important. And that is that there is a relationship in your life right now where there's just this unspoken tension with another person. You want to be closer.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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But I do agree with you that I was consumed with work because I was so scared about the amount of debt we were in and just the relentless pressure I felt for almost a decade to be able to... all the money that we had lost in the business and to get out of credit card debt and to be able to pay for college and do some of the things that I wanted to do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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And you're right, like too many people, I spent too many years working and and chasing the next thing because of the debt we were in. And I missed out on a lot. And so I can see why your experience was that I was always gone. And when I was home, I was talking about work or I was getting ready to leave on the next trip.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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Or, you know, Kendall, who is definitely way more emotional than you are, at least outwardly, was... getting a lot of the attention. And I think this happens a lot with the oldest kid, that you kind of assume the role of responsibility and you became very stoic. And as much as I was trying to reach you, I didn't worry about you as much because you didn't emote as much.

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And that's not your problem as the parent, it's my responsibility. to know who you are and to find ways to really reach you, but I didn't know how. It almost felt like, especially in high school, that you were pissed off at me and that you had crossed your arms and you were standing off on the side and that you were like, you're not gonna get to me. You don't get access to me. Is that true?

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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It's not like something horrible happened. No, not at all. I think most relationships have this invisible distance and you can feel it and you can't quite understand why it's there. And if it's with somebody that you deeply love and that you have cared about for a long time, that distance... And that sort of resentment that starts to build up is death by a thousand cuts. That's what it is.

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And the truth is, I've got some really good news because that's exactly how my daughter and I felt for years. And we've now figured it out. We've made our relationship better. And the good news is, in any relationship, all it takes is you. If you change how you show up, everything changes in the relationship. So whether you're now thinking about your mom,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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It's over and over and over again, somebody feeling like they don't matter to you. And honestly, when you're the parent, Sawyer, It's your responsibility to make sure that your children know that you matter to them. It's not your responsibility as the child to make me know that I matter to you.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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It's my responsibility as the parent to provide that to you, just like it's my responsibility to provide you with food and water and shelter.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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Me showing up in a way that makes you feel seen, me showing up in a way that makes you feel like you're a priority, me showing up in a way where I'm actually emotionally calm and I'm not tantruming or taking my stress out on all of you, that was something I didn't do. And so I did not provide you with what you needed. I fully own that.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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What were some of the things that I tried to do? Because I know what I tried to do.

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or you're thinking about how you've been fighting with your spouse and you wish you wouldn't, or you've got tension with one of your adult kids, or maybe the tension and this invisible distance is with a sibling. You were once close, but now you're not. And you can blame it on their spouse, but it's really in between the two of you. This conversation is one of the biggest gifts I could give you.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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I think that that's a very common experience, even when... someone in your family doesn't have a public-facing career. Like, if you're the person in your family that's the middle child in a big family, or you're the youngest in a big family, you feel invisible.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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And you show up at school and you're Joey's little brother, or, oh, here we go, we've got another, you know, one of the Mitchells, or, you know, here comes another Jones through the school, that you start to feel invisible In the kind of reputation of the family or what your siblings did ahead of you. So I think that that's a very common thing.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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So would you say that once you decided my mom doesn't care about me, it was going to be very difficult for me to somehow shatter that force field that you put up? Yes. Why do you say that?

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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I'd like to know I had more power here. Well, I appreciate you saying that because it takes time to shift the dynamic. And if somebody is committed to making you the villain in their story, or if they're committed to being the victim every time they tell the narrative of their family... It's pretty hard for people to let go of victimhood.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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It's pretty hard for people to change the identity that they got screwed over or that their family, everybody's crazy or nobody cares about them or I make the effort, but nobody else does. And when you get on that storyline, it's a very powerful thing to tell yourself because you feel right. Totally. And anger and resentment, it can become the substitute for the love that you actually crave.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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And the second that you say, well, I was wrong about them, or you attempt to step out of the story where you're the victim and you step into someone else's shoes and try to understand what it might have been like for them, just to see a different perspective, nothing's going to change. But in the conversation today, I actually do think people can change.

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And I do think if you're willing to examine your own storyline, And ask yourself, well, I realize that this has been the story. I realize that it's been for a long time that my sister doesn't care about me or that my in-laws are selfish or that I'm invisible in my family and nobody cares.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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If that's the story and it's been this way for a very long time, nothing is going to change unless you ask yourself the question, well, what do I actually want? Is this how I want it to be? And if you don't want it to continue to be this way, the one person that can change it is you. I want to be very clear. Your experience as a child is exactly aligned with the mother that you had.

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Because I'm going to explain that that invisible distance, that's something that you can close. You can improve your relationships. You can create a closer connection. And following the two things that my daughter and I are going to teach you today that work for us, that's one of the biggest gifts you could give to yourself and every relationship in your life.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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I was not available. I was desperately trying to save our family from financial ruin. And I was in panic mode all the time. And I didn't know how to build a business. I didn't know how to do what I was doing. And so I was constantly feeling behind and I could not do what I was doing and also be an awesome mom at the same time. And so I own that. And I also, though, thank you.

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And I appreciate that you can, from where you are now, And looking back at the dynamic, see what was on my side in terms of the responsibility and also be mature enough to say, I can see that I crossed my arms back in elementary school and was like, well, she likes Kendall more and I'm more like dad.

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So I'm just going to go over here in the corner and be silent and hold it all in and see if she notices me.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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Because I think that's something people can really relate to. That if I'm mad at you, I'm naturally going to want to make it up to you. And I have this dynamic with people in my life where I feel I'm constantly in trouble and they're keeping score and that when they're annoyed with me and I can hear it in their tone of voice that I now have to somehow smooth this over.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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And I definitely felt that dynamic with you. And I love that you can admit that you liked being mad at me. Yeah, it was great. What was great about it?

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You did. Because my experience of being your mother is that especially once you got to high school, you were like, done with me. I don't need you. I don't want you. I want your credit card. I want the keys to your car. And I want you to shut up and just not bother me. And so I started to comply.

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And I wanted something different, but I just didn't know how to do anything different or reach you without you being so annoyed or angry with me. All the time. It's true.

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The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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I think that's such a relatable experience. I am so... grateful that we're having this conversation, Zoe, and I'm grateful that you're together with us because I know that this conversation is going to improve your relationships and you're going to feel so much better if you truly take to heart everything that we're sharing. And I cannot wait to see who you share this conversation with.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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So, Soy, we're discussing the process of using the let them theory with one another over the course of the last year and how it has truly healed and improved our relationship. And so let's fast forward. to the part of the story where you go through college and you're out working for this massive cybersecurity firm. You're in your early 20s. You're getting promoted. You have all this stuff.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always such an honor to spend time and be together with you. I am so excited that you hit play today, that you're here for this conversation. This one is going to be amazing. And the reason why is I'm sitting down with my oldest daughter. Her name is Sawyer. She's 25 years old, and we have just spent the last year

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're saving money. And you decide that you're going to take this trip and backpack solo around Asia, something you've wanted to do since you were a little girl. You go realize this dream. And then what happens?

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So this was a year ago, almost to the day.

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And I... What were you thinking about the fact that you're moving in with me and dad? I thought it was temporary.

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No, it was like, I was going to pay a professional researcher like $40 an hour because the let them theory, I had stumbled upon it many months ago. I had shared it online. It had gone crazy viral. We had done one podcast episode about it. And that podcast episode became the sixth most shared episode on all of Apple podcasts of the year.

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And so when something goes that crazy, I'm like, I need to dig in deeper and I need to understand why is this resonating? Why are people getting tattoos that say let them? Before I commit to writing a book about this thing, let's dig into the research and see what all of you are telling us. the power of the let them theory is. And so I was going to hire somebody to do it.

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And so I thought, because I was very clear, you don't want to work for me. You've always said, I don't want to work for you. I don't want to work for you, which I respect. You want to have your own path in life. Absolutely agree with that. Absolutely follow your own path. But I was like, okay, we both have a problem. Let's see if we can solve it together.

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And so you took on this project, 40 bucks an hour I think it was, to do a quick research project for two weeks where I gave you the thing that had gone viral initially, like a 60 second thing, and I gave her the podcast episode and said, I want you to dig into the comments.

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writing the Let Them Theory book together. And the process of not only learning about the Let Them Theory and writing this book together, it has healed our relationship. And this is going to be one of those conversations that I know is going to be deeply personal. You're going to see yourself in everything that we're talking about.

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And I expected you to come back within two weeks and kind of give me a couple pages of analysis, but that's not what happened. Within 27 hours, Sawyer produced a, like, I don't know, 36-page document that was an active Excel table with color-coded drop-down menus and source links.

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including not only the 36 pages of citation and analysis and color coding and dropdown menus, but a two-page synopsis, which also included the fact that she said, mom, you can't write this book. Because what I'm seeing in the comments is 90% of it's amazing, but 10% of people are saying, I'm saying let them and I'm really lonely. I'm saying, let them. And I see that my friends don't call me back.

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I'm saying, let them. And I see I'm the one in my family that makes all the effort. We cannot do a book about something that makes people lonely. There has to be a second part. Now, meanwhile, as she's saying this to me, I'm holding this very thick packet of information that looks like some sort of marketing engineer has used AI to create. And I'm looking at you and I'm thinking, oh my God,

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I think for the first time in your life, I actually understand the way your brain works. That you basically have a supercomputer between those bright blue eyes and those beautiful like ears and smile that is crunching data all the time. And if you don't have a monster of a project to aim it at, you aim it at yourself.

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And it made me want to cry because I understood immediately why you're so hard on yourself and why you're always in your head. And then the second reaction that I had was, holy shit, I got to figure out how she can work for me because this kid is a genius. I've never seen anybody do research like this before. I've never seen something organized like this before. The analysis was spot on.

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And I will tell you point blank, that the reason why the let them theory has two steps, step one being say, let them, and let them is where you detach from controlling another person and you let them be who they are. And step two is 1000% because of Sawyer. And step two is let me.

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And that's where you say, let me, and you direct yourself to the truth, which is the only thing that you can control in any relationship or your life or your career is you. Your response, what you think, what you say, what you do, how you process your emotions. And that's where you get to take responsibility for your life. That's where all the control and power comes.

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Because when you say, let me, you're reminding yourself that it's both your responsibility to figure out what you want to do. And let's talk about the word responsibility. Responsibility just means the ability to respond.

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And in our case, one of the things that has been absolutely unbelievable around the let them theory is that it's not only stopped you and me from trying to control the other person, but in saying let them, let them, let them to each other. I say let them when Sawyer seems intense. I say let them when Sawyer seems pissed off at me. I say, let them when Sawyer kind of has that crossed armed vibe.

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And then I say, let me. Let me decide how I'm gonna show up right now. And there are moments where I choose to step toward you and to try to make sure you know that I'm here And then there are moments where I say, let me just give her space.

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Instead of micromanaging her and thinking something's wrong, let me just respect her as a 25-year-old human being who is allowed to have experiences in life that may be challenging. And I don't need to step in and mother her. I don't need to step in and smother her. I can just let her. Let her be intense about work right now because there's a lot going on.

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And you're going to leave not only with a deeper understanding of the let them theory, which is this mindset tool that I discovered, I don't know, about two years ago, that really helps you understand what's in your control and what's not in your control. And it helps you to focus on what you are in control of, which is what you think, say, or do, and to just let other people be.

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And so, long and the short of it is, you... agreed to step on and help me write the Lethem Theory book.

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This is actually really important because I got to give you massive props for Boundaries. So notice what she's doing. Because here's the thing, in any relationship when things start to shift, it doesn't shift like that.

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These dynamics between you and the people in your life, whether it's your mother or your father or your sister or your brother, or maybe it's your adult kids, these dynamics have been in place for a very long time. You both have stories about each other. And you got to be willing to first of all go, well, what do I actually want? I know what I have. What do I actually want?

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And the thing is, before the Let Them Theory book and before the tools of Let Them and Let Me, we had a lot of fun together. We could get drunk and hang out and party. We can go out to dinner. We can go on mother-daughter trips with everybody else and post all the photos. But underneath all the veneer,

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there is that sense of I'm not a priority, and this doesn't understand me because she's always working, and I got to do it on my own, and dad's the one that's there for me, not her. And I had this sense of no matter what I do, Sawyer's never going to warm up to me. I know she loves me, but she is intentional about needing to separate, right? and not let me in and I can feel it.

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Like you can feel it when somebody in your life is like arms crossed, swords up, I'll let you in when I feel like it or I've had a couple of tequilas. Like it's just, there's people in your life like that. And you may have good reason to have those boundaries up because they've hurt you and because they're not predictable.

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And the more that I was working on myself and the more you started working on yourself, And the more we both knew we just wanted to be closer without the bullshit between us, that's where the opening happens. But first you got to decide, I want to change the story here that I'm telling myself for the sake of experiencing something different.

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I wanted so desperately for you guys to be part of a family business because I saw how that kept my mom's family alive. in close proximity in upstate New York. And I just figured the world is so busy, how cool would it be to all have work to keep us together? And since the work is digital and interesting and media, there's lots of different things you could do.

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So I always saw it as why would I want someone else to run this business? Why wouldn't I want one of you to run this business? And what a better way to be able to be together than to work together. And I will say the experience of seeing you as a colleague has been an extraordinary gift because I get to see how your mind works.

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Let them live their lives, let them have their opinions, and really focus on your response. And a funny thing happens when you start to implement the let them theory in your life. When you start to say let them, and you let people be themselves, you create space for change and transformation. Like, it's kind of crazy. The more you stop trying to control everybody else, the more control you gain.

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I get to see you in meetings with Audible and Hay House and the PR teams and the Today Show. And it's just incredible to get to see a completely different dimension And I think if you've got a kid or a sibling or a parent that is an athlete or they're an artist or they do something where you can see this side of them, you know what I'm talking about.

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But for those of us that don't perform, like who knew your skill was a supercomputer brain that can do digital marketing and project management and be a business lead? Like that doesn't come out when you're little. And I probably would never have seen it in you, but for the fact that we had this experience of writing the book together.

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And I'm saying this because I love thinking you don't know the people you think you know. That there's a whole different side of the person that you love that you've never even experienced before.

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whether it's artistic talent or a knack for writing poetry or they're an incredible sense of direction out in the woods and they can guide you anywhere, that the stories that we tell ourselves about the people that we know the best trap us in a relationship with that version of the person. and it limits your ability to experience someone in a new light.

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You want to have more fun. But you're just not sure what to do. Well, that was me and my oldest daughter, Sawyer, for a long time. And today, Sawyer and I are going to sit down with you and we're going to unpack the issues that we had in our relationship with you and talk about this invisible distance that both of us felt.

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It's one of the reasons why so many of us love our friends so much more than our family, because our friends come in and out of our lives and experience us out in the world, and our family almost never does. Our family still experiences us as we were inside that family system as the golden child or the troublemaker or the one that's this,

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And you start to resent the fact that people don't see you for your full self. And that's what this experience this past year has done with my relationship with you. And it's also why the let them theory and saying let them and saying let me is a game changer in your relationships. Because when you start to say let them, especially with family,

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it creates the space for you to accept someone as they are and perhaps start seeing them for who they are for the very first time. Instead of judging or wishing or managing or worrying, when you say let them, you do what everybody wants, which is you truly learn how to accept somebody instead of trying to control them. And then when you say let me,

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you're now cuing yourself and reminding yourself that you get to choose how you show up with this person in your life, what energy you bring, what sort of questions you ask. And when you start to focus on the energy that you bring and how you show up with the people that you think you know best, that's what creates the ripple effect that creates change.

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The more you let other people be themselves, the better your relationships become. And what I'm going to do today with you is I'm inviting you to sit down with me and my daughter, and we're going to unpack our mother-daughter relationship. And I promise you, you're going to see yourself. You're going to see yourself with your siblings. You may see yourself with your parents.

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It's such an important point. And this brings me to kind of a takeaway for you listening. And it's if you want to change the narrative or the story or the dynamic with somebody that you care about, especially if you've known them for a long time. You have to truly want to step into their shoes.

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And we talk about this tool called frame of reference that I learned from my friend Lisa Bilyeu at length and how you use it with the let them theory. But I'm going to give you a couple quick examples because this is really important. I recently heard somebody say to me, you know, I don't understand why my kids are upset by who we voted for in the election. And what I said to them is,

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I don't think you're asking the right question. Because you just said to me, I don't understand why they're upset with me. Maybe the question needs to be, I need to step into their shoes to try to understand why they might be upset with me. So I think we stand on our side of the line and we look at somebody else and we judge them and say, well, I don't understand why they're like this.

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Have you ever stopped and asked yourself, I wonder what it was like for my mom? I wonder what it was like for my sister? I wonder what it was like for my little brother? We're so consumed with our experience that we start to build a narrative around it, but we never actually even want to step in and consider.

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And I remember my relationship with my mom shifted immediately the second I stopped to ask myself, wonder what it was like for my mom to be 19 years old in the middle of Kansas City, married to my dad who was starting medical school, and here she has a newborn, And she's working nights at the IRS. Her family is halfway across the country. It's just her and my dad who's starting medical school.

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She's a brand new mom. She's just got her friend. I wonder what that was like. And when you stop and step in someone else's shoes, what you realize is most people are not monsters. Most people are doing the best that they can with the resources and the life experience that they have. In the words of Dr. Ablon, people do well when they can. And we tend to judge from our point of view.

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And then we sit there and cross our arms and go, I don't understand why my mom's so upset with me. I don't understand why my sister's so selfish. I don't understand why. Well, have you stopped and asked yourself, I wonder what it must be like to be that person. If I assume good intent, I wonder what that must be like.

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Because there's a difference between wishing someone would understand you and actually taking the time and being interested in understanding why they might think the way that they think.

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And when you're in a relationship with somebody, a sibling, a parent, an adult child, where you have got so much baggage built up, like you are literally pulling up to any conversation on the phone, any text message, any anything. I want you to imagine you have a freaking U-Haul next to you. You got everything that's ever happened, all the death by a thousand cuts.

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You're both kind of locked in this. It just takes one person to change the dynamic. But here's the thing.

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You may see yourself with your adult kids. You will definitely see yourself with your significant other, whether you're married or dating or whatever, because the ultimate topic that we're talking about truly is is that in most relationships, there's this invisible distance between you and another person.

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If you're the one that goes to therapy, if you're the one that listens to the podcast episodes, if you're the one that reads the Let Them Theory book, if you're the one that starts to calm yourself down and act like a more mature adult in the relationship, more loving person, if you're the one that's using the tools and you're saying, I wonder what it was like when my mom was such and such, or I wonder what it must have been like for my little sister, or I wonder what it was like for my dad.

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and you step into their shoes, do not expect the other person to do the same thing. Because expecting someone else to meet you at the same level that you are now trying to learn about and meet yourself and go through life, they cannot do that unless they've done the work.

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And what we write about extensively in the Let Them Theory book, in fact, the book is divided into eight sections, and one of the sections is all about how our attempts to make other people change and our expectations that they should keeps the dynamic stuck. And so the hardest part about all of this is that, yes, you can change the dynamic, no question. Absolutely. And all you need is you.

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You do not need the other person's participation because your behavior and your emotional maturity is so powerful that it influences the dynamic. And if you're lucky, over time, it changes the dynamic. And I want you to think about it this way. Let's say you have a really antagonistic relationship with somebody.

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Every time you get on the phone or you see each other, it's like you both pull up in your U-Haul trailers with all the baggage. You both hope it goes better, but the relationship is a lot like a tug of war. You each pick up the rope, you hook it to the U-Haul, and now you're pulling each other with all the baggage and the weight.

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The fastest way to win the tug of war is to actually just drop the rope. Don't play. Let them. Let them tug. Don't talk back. And what's going to happen is the person's going to tantrum. The person's going to say flipping things. Oh, is this what you learned in there? Is this therapy speak that you're using on me now? Let them say it. I don't know, mom. Just tired of the tension.

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Really would love to have a better relationship with you. So I'm trying. Oh, let them. Because they don't know how to operate in the new dynamic.

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yet they're still committed to the baggage and the story they don't know anything different and now that you're showing up different you're calmer you're not pulling on the rope you're not stabbing back you're just showing up you're clear that you want to shift the dynamic every time they say something that would normally agitate the hell out of you just say let them

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And let me remind myself that even when they act like an eight-year-old, I'm not their parent and it's not my job to manage us. So let them. And when you stay in your power and you continue to do it over and over and over, the person in your life reveals how much they can meet you at this level. And you might be surprised.

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You know, there are people in my life that I've had antagonistic relationships with and now that I have the let them theory and I show up very differently and I'm calmer and I'm more compassionate and I'm more understanding and I walk away the second I sniff any kind of stress or antagonism coming, I just remove myself from the conversation. The dynamic's different.

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It's sort of this space that gets created over time with the people that you've known the longest or the people that you love the most or the people that you're related to. And it's this distance that that gets created, it's like death by a thousand cuts.

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As I step into someone else's shoes and I go, I wonder what it must be like to be And I really play out the story in my mind from the other person's point of view. You know, the sibling that didn't get married, the sibling that can't get it together, wonder what it must be like to be the one that mom and dad is supporting. That can't feel that great. Huh.

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You know, wow, I could be a little bit more compassionate here. Maybe it's not worth my time and energy to actually get bothered by this. Maybe I should just bathe myself in feeling sorry for somebody and a little bit more compassionate that this is what their life is like and just let them. And let me say, let me remind myself that I'm really proud of where I'm at.

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And I'm proud that I'm the emotionally mature person. And what you're going to notice is it takes time. Because as you said, Sawyer, and I thought it was a beautiful thing to share, that when you were angry, you got my attention. And a lot of people in your life are angry or they're in breakdown or they treat you in passive aggressive ways because it gets your attention.

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And what does that tell you? It tells you all they ever wanted was your attention. And maybe you can be the one that can close this distance because you start giving them the attention in an entirely new way. And when somebody starts to feel tended to, and they start to feel like they have a little bit more of your attention, it's kind of shocking how people change. Now, it doesn't always happen.

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And that's something that's important to say. Because let them doesn't change things. It creates the space for things to change. And that's why this is so powerful.

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The small things that you try to let go, the passive aggressive comments, the things that you feel kind of resentful or upset about that maybe happened in the past that you'd never quite gotten over. It's not even that the relationship's horrible.

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And none of us want to see that we are a participant in a dynamic. And that's why it takes one person to change not only the dynamic with anyone in your life, but it takes one person to change an entire family system. And as much as you can change the dynamic with anybody and you can improve any relationship because you can shift how you show up, you have to always remember something.

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There is one thing you will never be able to change and that's another person. People only change when they feel like changing and when the conditions for changing are present. And that's important because if somebody doesn't want to change or they can't change due to some condition in their life right now, they're not going to change.

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And there's too many relationships where you're wishing someone would change and you're working against the fundamentals of human wiring, which is people have to feel that they are in control of their own lives. That's why they're tugging on the rope. They want your attention. They want to win. They want to be right, so they tug on the rope.

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When you say let them and you don't play that game, you just shifted the dynamic. And as things shift and it impacts someone else, now they have to question, huh, if what I used to do doesn't work, maybe I should try something else. And that means you're triggering the truth about human beings, which is they only change when they feel like it.

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And if you're changing the dynamic and what has always happened and all the baggage is no longer relevant, because you're not arguing over the same old crap anymore, then all of a sudden there's a lot less to argue about. And that's what creates this space that makes someone else actually want to change. Because most people are actually seeking your intention.

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You know, maybe it's that you really wish you were closer to your siblings, but there's just something there that you can't explain that makes it feel impossible to just feel closer. Or maybe you wish there was just less drama and friction with your adult kids or with your parents or with their significant other.

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They're seeking to feel important and seen. And they've just been going about it in very negative ways or in subconscious patterns that just don't work anymore. You know, as you're listening to me and so I share all this and everything that we've learned the hard way, I really can't wait to see what you do with this conversation.

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And I can't wait to hear from you and to hear how it's improved your life, your relationships, how it's helped to disappear this distance that we're talking about. And I just am excited for you to share this with someone that you care about.

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So, you know, in the process, Soy, of you and I really learning how to use the let them theory to create more space for our relationship to change, it's really been extraordinary to get to know you in a totally different way. And I think that's one of the most exciting things about talking about this today with, you know, you as you're listening to us.

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is that you have no idea what's possible in your relationships. You only know the way it's been. But I see a bigger possibility for you. There's no doubt in my mind that people in your life can change. Don't you agree, Soy?

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You know, the let them theory and saying let them and then saying let me as a way to diffuse tension and frustration and stress in your relationships. It doesn't make anything easy. It makes it happen. As we are writing this book together, just imagine the craziness of this.

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We have a mother-daughter relationship, a daughter who does not want to work for her mother, a mom who is stressed out and running this massive business, dying to be closer to you. We now have this project that we're working on only because you need money. And

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That there are times where it's fun, you really think things are okay, but you just can't quite get closer. and have it be better all the time. And so, in the process of working on the Let Them Theory book over the last year and using the Let Them Theory, my daughter and I truly, deeply, authentically, for real, erase the distance

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It just so happens that the project heals our relationship because the tool that we're writing about is a tool that brings you closer to other people by letting go of controlling them. And it forces you to let other people be themselves, which makes you see them for the first time. And so I said, let them, let them, let them with you probably five times a day.

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But...

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Let them.

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And then in between that, producing all these podcast episodes and giving speeches and everything, it was a lot. It was too much. But the bigger takeaway is this, because I don't want you to be discouraged from ever working in a family business. And I don't want you to think that... all of the tension and fighting was for naught because the bottom line is, writing a book is a colossal undertaking.

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and really became close in a way that we both really wanted to, but never knew how. And so I invite you to pull up a seat and to join me and my daughter, Sawyer.

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Typically, you would do it in two years. We produced this one in eight months. That is insane in terms of the timeline. And the only reason why it got done, it was because of you. And when you're not only dealing with somebody that you have a story about and you want to have a better relationship with,

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but you also have very different working styles and thinking styles, using the let them theory is a lifesaver because every time I would say let them, because Sawyer was yelling at me that I was rewriting a chapter and I wasn't following the outline and why even bother doing an outline if you're not even gonna follow it, every time I said let them, what happened is I recognized the genius in your brain because this is how you think.

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You know, in life, there are what I call box jumpers and box steppers. So if you imagine a path, every step, A, B, C, D, E, the path leads from point A to point C. You're the kind of person, Sawyer, that you don't need to see point Z. You know exactly what A to B to B to C to C to D. You are a genius. You are a box stepper. You can take any process. You can organize a structure around it.

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Like my brain cannot do that. It can't. Your dad is the same way. I am a different type of thinker. I am what you call a box jumper. And it is my genius to stand at point A and see all the way down the line and go, oh, we're going to W. Now I have no idea how to create a map to get there, but I know we're going to get there. And here's the problem with most of our relationships.

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I want Sawyer to be a box jumper. I want her to think like me. I want her to be like me. And that's why I feel frustrated and tension and like anger and resentment because you're not like me and you don't think like me. Meanwhile, Sawyer just wishes I was a box stepper that I could go from A to B and then B to C. And she doesn't understand why my brain doesn't work the way that her brain works.

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And I think most of us... build up this invisible distance with one another because we've never learned how to say, let them. And when you say, let them, and you let somebody freak out because their brain works differently or because their expectations weren't met. Like I think a lot about, especially around the holidays or big celebrations, of course your family is bummed you're not coming.

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And before we jump in, I just want to take a moment to and welcome you if you're brand new, because if you're listening to this episode as the first episode that you're listening to of the Mel Robbins podcast, it tells me something about you. First of all, either somebody that really loves you

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They love you. Shouldn't they be upset? Shouldn't they be disappointed? I mean, what's the alternative? I'm glad you're not coming because I hate you anyway. Instead of saying, oh, well, what does it actually mean if someone's disappointed? It just means they love me and they just wish I were there. It doesn't mean I have to change my plans because two things can be true at once.

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Someone can be disappointed in me and still love me. And I can be kind of sad that this year I'm going to my in-laws and I'm going to miss out, but those can both be true. And what can also be true is my daughter and I can be very different thinkers and we can be wired very differently. And through understanding and acceptance, there's room for both of us.

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And it's in that space where Sawyer can be frustrated because I'm yet again as an artist. I'm just an artist. That's what I am. I blow something up because I know that this isn't going to take us to W. And I can't explain to her how we're going to get to W, but I know her genius will get us there. If I can create space for your experience to be sad or emotional or mad and just let them.

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And then I say, well, let me. Let me be honest with myself about what I know to be true. And let me hold space for you to be upset. Same thing's true with you. Okay, let them, here goes mom again, the crazy insane artist, let her. And let me remind myself as the project manager on this, if this doesn't hit the deadline, not my fault, it's hers. So let her blow it up.

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Cause her name on the cover, let her do it. Cause she's gonna have to reap the consequences of it. And it was not easy. And that's the thing about the let them theory as a tool. It's a tool that you are going to use every day in every relationship. I literally say it every day in my marriage. I say it every day with Sawyer because little things piss you off. Little things make you roll your eyes.

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But instead of letting those little things become the invisible cuts that create the distance that makes your relationship slowly die and resentment take over, when you say let them, you just let them go. And it doesn't build up. And you learn how to love the person as they are instead of constantly wishing they were just like you because they're never going to be.

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and wants to either be closer to you, or wants you to be closer to people in your life, sent this to you. Which means you have people around you that deeply care about you. And they wanted you to listen to this because they know that this conversation is going to help you improve your life and your relationships, and it will.

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Well, if we hadn't had LetThem, we probably would have thrown this project out the window and said, let's not bother. And you would have quit and moved to New York and said, see, I told you. But it was the tool of saying let them and then saying let me that created the space for us to work together on a project and have very different styles and also very different experiences.

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Because this is my ninth book. We've done six audio books for Audible. We did the five-second rule and the high-five habit. So I've been through this rodeo. You haven't. And so it's also this experience of bringing someone into a project who is learning in the seat, doing a remarkable job, but also all the stress and anxiety that comes from never having done it before.

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Sawyer, that is a genius takeaway. And let me tell you why, just to add to this, because it's way bigger than working on a project with somebody that thinks differently. There are going to be times in any relationship, whether it's with a sibling or a parent or an adult child or the person that you're in a relationship with, where you don't like what they're about to go do.

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The second thing it tells me is that you actually care about your relationships. Because you saw this episode and you hit play. And so my daughter and I are sitting down and we are going to unpack the lessons that we've learned the hard way. So hopefully we can save you the headache and heartache and upset and distance that we created in our relationship as mom and daughter.

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You're worried about it. You think it's a dumb thing. Like, for example, let's say you have somebody in your life who's planning on quitting a great job to go start a business. They want to follow their dreams, right? Of course you're worried about it. Most businesses fail. Of course you have concerns about whether or not it's going to be successful and whether or not this is the right time.

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But in life, you have to let them You have to let them live their lives. You've got to let them follow their path. You have to let them try things and fail.

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So you can say to someone in your life that is about to change their major or quit their job or date somebody that you're like, red flags, red flags, red flags, which we all know nobody listens to anyway when you try to warn people, so you've got to let them. But it is 1,000% effective for you to go, and... You need to let me do what I need to do in this regard.

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So you need to let me create a budget. If you're going to go quit your job and launch a business, you need to let me create a spreadsheet that shows you exactly how much money we have before we run out. Which then allows me to manage what I'm worried about without trying to control you to manage what I'm worried about. Do you see what I'm saying?

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And so the second that you said to me, because I kept going, I don't need a table of contents. I don't need this. Just let me write. And you'd be like, Mom, I'm going to let you do your thing. But you have to let me organize myself in a way. that makes me feel comfortable when I get on the phone with the publisher because I need to organize myself and I realize I'm responsible for that.

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And you also started to realize controlling you isn't going to actually give you power.

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I mean, even when we were having fun and we really love each other and we have a lot of fun together, but... There was just something in the way, you know? And we both wanted to be closer and not offend each other or upset each other or say things that we didn't mean to say. And it's like neither one of us knew how to bridge the gap or create a closer connection.

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Well, and I want to broaden this out because we really, in the course of writing the book about the Lethem Theory and how stressful it was, use these tools all day long. And so this applies in every relationship.

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Because if all you do is say let them, and even if it's like the example of you go home and your mom is like, I don't know, I get all stressed out when people are coming over and gotta clean the house. And anybody that tries to help, I'm bristly. And if all the family does is say let them, let her get all worked up, let her micromanage, and nobody then says to themselves, I got to say, let me.

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Mom, when you get like this, it's not fun for anybody. Let me help you. What that does is it breaks up the dynamic where there's invisible distance. Because your silence when somebody's behavior is making you upset, it actually creates distance. Because when you stay silent, you take a step away from somebody.

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And you can learn from our mistakes and you can learn from the things that we learned this year as we used the Let Them Theory and as we wrote about it and researched it. And there's one thing I know for sure. You will never look at relationships the same again after joining me and my daughter Sawyer. And with that, I just said your name very weird, Sawyer. Yeah.

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And when you remind yourself by saying, let me, you now prompt yourself to say something. And every time you say something, not so that you control the other person, not so that you change what's happening, but so that you say how you're feeling or how somebody's behavior is impacting you, you actually take a step closer to somebody.

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And it's in hearing how my behavior was impacting you that would have me stop in my tracks and change how I was operating because I didn't want to make you feel that way. I was just all stressed out and worried about the book deadline. So, of course, I'm like doing what I think it's going to do. Same thing with getting ready for guests to come over.

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Everybody's running around like a lunatic because they're stressed out. And when we say, let them, let them, let them, we don't let somebody else's stress impact us. But when we say, let me tell them how their behavior is impacting me, now I'm taking a step closer and seeking connection instead of creating more distance. Does that make sense? Yeah, 100%.

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I love it. I do too. I do too. It like creates room for more love when you say it. And so I want to just make sure that you're leaving not only seeing yourself in a dynamic with a sister or a parent or an adult child or somebody that you love where this sort of invisible distance and weirdness. I want to make sure that you really kind of get some of the key takeaways.

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And the first one is we all have a story about the other person. And until you recognize that you have a story about the other person and Sawyer's story was what about me?

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What's your current story?

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And... My story was that you're always mad at me and I've done something wrong and that you don't need me and that you don't want me unless I'm paying for something or you have an emergency. And that is not my story. My story now is that I get to see you every day and work with you. And I have just crazy admiration for the way that you think and your work ethic.

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I don't know why I said it weird like that.

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And as your mother, I'm just worried. I want you to have a little fun. That's all. But I got to let them. Let them. Book launch is almost over. Book launch. Yep. Then I'll have some fun. That's tool number one. Recognize the story you're telling and then ask yourself, what is the story I want? And if there is this invisible distance or this weird friction, what do you want?

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And it might just be, I'd just like to be a little closer. I'd like to have more fun again. I'd like to stop arguing about stupid stuff. I'd like us to both come out of our corners and uncross our arms and just realize we're on the same side. And that brings me to the next thing, which is it's very helpful to stop and ask yourself, I wonder what it's like

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I wonder what it's like to be the oldest in a family of three where mom's always working and dad's business failed and mom's always gone and she's always stressed out. I wonder what that's like. And to have a younger sister that's on a stage and that is this and that, I wonder what it's like to feel

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the weight of responsibility and to feel like you're not seen or that things are never good enough. And when you stop and go, I wonder what it's like and you put yourself in their shoes for the sake of truly wanting to understand what their story might be, it allows you to lower your sword and uncross your arms and drop the rope and really come from more of a place of a little bit of compassion.

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And so I guess where we should start is we're going to tell you a little bit about our relationship prior to the past year where we've had this experience of working together on this project of writing and then releasing the Let Them Theory book. And it all happened by accident. None of this happened on purpose.

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And then you're going to use the let them theory and you're gonna say, let them. Whenever they're just being themselves, whenever the U-Haul arrives with all the baggage, You know, whenever the old stuff comes up, whenever you feel the distance, the stress, the frustration, the whatever, let them.

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Because the more you let them be, the better your relationships are going to become and the more the dynamic shifts. And then you got to always remember to say, let me. Because that's where you remind yourself that what you feel and what you need and the actions you take really matter here. And the final piece of advice that I want to give you is that

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There's no doubt in my mind that the let them theory alone would have transformed our relationship. But it was accelerated in terms of the timeline for transformation because we had a project to work on. And this is a really important thing to consider. I bet you've had experience in your life where something happened.

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Maybe somebody got really sick in your family and everybody drops everything and runs in to help. And suddenly the baggage isn't there because there is something other than the history that everybody's organized around that made you be on the same side. And so I want you to consider, is there some kind of project that you could think up that could help you erase some of this distance?

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could you ask for help? Maybe there's a back bedroom you need to move out and you want to set up an office and one of your siblings or your mom or one of your adult kids is fantastic at kind of interior design and Pinterest boards. What if you ask them for a little bit of help? It's a project that you could organize yourselves around where you're on the same side.

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And this kind of thing isn't just what Sawyer and I experienced. I dug into the research because I was really curious about this. Turns out that there was a study done. In fact, two of them that I want to share with you because I think you'll find it empowering. The National Institute of Health wrote about how when people have to solve a problem together, We had to write a book.

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Maybe your problem is you have a kid that's been diagnosed with dyslexia and you don't know what to do, but your sister's really good at this stuff. Or maybe you're going through a breakup and you need help and your mom's not that great until you actually need consoling.

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And so when you have a project that you can work on, a problem that you're going to solve together, number one, it creates this common goal. which is going to give you and this person in your life a shared purpose. It's going to allow the two of you to collaborate. And the other thing that it does is it creates mutual reliance.

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In any relationship where there's this invisible distance, you're not relying on each other. You're actually resentful and antagonistic of one another.

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When you come up with something cool, whether it's a project or a little trip you can take together or something cool you could do together or something, it's going to help you create a stronger bond because it gets the focus off the dynamic and onto the project or the problem you're solving or the trip you're going to take, something that creates this sense that you actually belong together.

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And that's another really important thing, that at any moment you can change the way your relationship feels. And as Sawyer and I are sharing with you our experiences and what our relationship used to feel like,

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And I'm going to share one more thing. Do you know they actually did a study? This is out of the University of Texas. where hurricanes, they did this after Hurricane Harvey, and I'm not suggesting that hurricanes don't come with problems, but when a family or a couple goes through a natural disaster together, there is a massive jump in happiness after the hurricane goes through. Why?

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Because a natural disaster suddenly reminds you of what actually matters. And all those little things that have built up over time and that created all that distance suddenly doesn't. Because you've got bigger things you need to deal with and problem solve and work on together to get through it. And that's what that book did for you and me. That's what you can create with anybody in your life.

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And using these simple tools, and of course, the let them theory. You have a couple simple things that you can do that will help you close the distance and create a different connection with somebody that you deeply care about. And I really hope you do. Anything else you want to say, Soy?

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And I'm really excited too. Like that's the thing is that everybody thinks that this is about other people. It's actually about you. You want people to be saying let them. You want your whole family to know this. And I am so excited for this to be out in the world. I'm excited for you to learn to use it. I'm excited for you to drop the rope.

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and stop like doing the tugging back and forth with people. I'm excited for you to close the distance between you and people that you care about. And if they continue to be emotionally immature, you're going to have the let them theory by your side because it does take time. I wanna thank you for being here together with me and Sawyer.

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I'm so excited for the people in your life that you're gonna share this with and that you're going to give the Let Them Theory book to. And I cannot wait to hear how you use it. For you, Sawyer, I just wanna say I love you so much.

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I'm just going to ask you to be thinking about the people in your life, whether it's a sister or brother, or it's an in-law, or it's a colleague at work, or it's a friend that, I don't know, it's like the way that I would describe our relationship, and then I'm going to just throw it over to you, almost like a professional roasting, Sawyer, is that I desperately wanted to be closer to you, but I didn't know how to be.

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It is the greatest gift in the world to have had this experience together and to get to share work together and experience a whole different side of you that I would never have if I was just your mom.

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I love you too. And I also wanted to be sure to say in case no one else says it to you today, that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And the Let Them Theory is absolutely going to help you do that. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you the moment you hit play in the very next episode. I'll see you there. Do we like the pony? What's the pony?

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In my head. Oh. No?

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Okay. Hey, here we go. Oh, okay. Does that sound good, Yuna? Perfect, guys. Yeah. This is where you got to slay me, Sawyer. Honored. Okay. Oh, that's okay. Sorry, Oak. You've become me, Sawyer.

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Thank you. That was so good.

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Okay, great. Oh, my God.

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Your turn.

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I want to dig in here because I would put our relationship story. You're 25. You're the oldest of three. I'm 56. Compared to a lot of people's relationships, our relationship is great. We talk a lot. We respond to each other's texts. We love seeing each other. But there was something underneath the surface that made it not so great. And what was that for you?

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And please, like, just let me have it. Don't worry about my feelings. Just the more you can explain your experience as the daughter, I think the more powerful this conversation is going to be for the person that is here with us right now.

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And we didn't even quite understand what was off. And as you listen to my daughter and I unpack the things that we realized about our relationship, and more importantly, we share two things that happened this year that we discovered that brought us closer than ever.

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If you go back in time, though, and... If you could explain even how this dynamic was in place before... the level of kind of recognition that this podcast has brought because it's a whole, in my experience, it's a whole different ballgame in the past two years than it was when we lived in Sherbourne. And so could you share a little bit about your experience even in middle school and high school?

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I want you to be thinking about the relationships in your life because there is somebody in your life right now that you wish you were closer to, but there's just this unspoken tension or you show up and you have the best of expectations and you really want to have fun and things are okay for a day, but then it's just the same old argument and baggage and you just wish it could go away.

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It definitely was. And I'm sorry. That's okay.

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Well, I think every working parent, especially those of us that have a job that requires travel, kind of has that like, ooh, in your heart. Because there are times in your life where just out of necessity, you got to be on the road because that's what your job demands. And I guess I was lucky enough that dad was home full time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

A Process for Finding Purpose: Do THIS to Build the Life You Want

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Today, it is my absolute honor to be able to introduce you to a person who plays a very important role in my life. Now, this is someone that I turn to for advice, whether it's advice that I need in my life, in my relationships, or advice that I might need about my next career move. He is a person who picks me up when I feel down.

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I know that I've had like so many career changes. I sometimes feel like I'm a cover band for ABBA doing costume changes. Like it's not a resume. It's like a choose your own adventure. But you have had so many twists and turns in your career. You literally went from university to a massive like consulting job to pursuing like spiritual training as a monk to then deciding having an epiphany. And it

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every one of those moments, there was that pressure that you're talking about where you have to make a call that who you are and how you're living your life no longer feels right. But you have always made the turn. And so can you just like quickly kind of tell us a few of those moments so that the person listening understands that at any single moment, you are literally one decision away.

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from turning your life in a different direction. And talk a little bit about what holds you back when that resistance shows up. Like, well, I can't leave a consulting job.

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You know, it's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together with you. And if you're a brand new listener, I also want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm thrilled that you're here and I'm thrilled that you hit play on this particular episode because it's going to be extraordinary. It's going to be exactly what you need to hear.

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What is the one thing though? Because I think that's the thing that's confounding until you actually figure out the riddle in life. Yeah. Right.

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It's sort of like, you can't explain to somebody what it feels like to be married until you've done it. Yes. You can't explain to somebody how shockingly simple things can be. until you've learned how to push through your own resistance to the things that you're interested in and curious about experimenting with or trying.

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And so for somebody that's never even considered a possibility for themselves beyond consulting or beyond where they're at right now or beyond the major that they had or beyond the city that they live in, what is that first step? And is there a way if you're not even in touch with what it feels like to be pulled towards something new, to identify it in yourself.

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Because I think that's one of the things that you do for people. You help people see a bigger possibility for themselves. And it took me a long time to go from simply surviving and trying to pay bills and get through the day to understanding that there's a different way to wake up and be tapped into the signals and the energetic things that pull you in different directions.

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Because I think that's what you're talking about when you say, all you need to do is take one step.

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So is there a mindset shift like from I hate this dread? Like there have been times in my life where I literally you're heading to work. You're just like, I do not want to walk through the door and actually have to be there today. So is there a mindset shift that you would advise us to just hold on to? Because it shifts everything.

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the experience of being where you are, what is that mindset shift?

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And because you hit play on this episode, I already know something about you. I know that you're someone who values your time because you're making time to listen to a conversation that will give you greater clarity, purpose, and direction. I also suspect that you're looking for some answers, for a way to make sense of what's going on in your life, and for guidance on how to move forward.

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Well, you know what else I hear? I hear trust.

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Because I think a lot of times, at least me personally, when I've felt very stuck, there was this intense feeling like I was in the wrong place, which then creates resistance. And what you just did is by saying, if I'm going to spend eight hours here, then I'm going to get everything I can out of it because I trust that by doing that, I'll actually find the next thing.

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And by the way, you already are those things. You already are those things, whether you like it or not. And maybe that's the whole point. that you already are those things, which is why you feel haunted when you are in a chapter in your life that is over and it's time for you to move toward the next thing that's already a part of you.

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And the reason why you know it's already a part of you is because you actually feel pulled to make YouTube videos or pulled to go back to graduate school or pulled to be in a different relationship.

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If someone sent you this episode, I want to take a moment and point something out that's really important. You have people in your life who love you and they want you to experience this conversation because they are certain that what you're about to hear will change your life. It'll open you up to bigger possibilities.

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So Jay, what is the difference between purpose and passion? And what do we get wrong about it?

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Well, I think probably teacher.

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And I want you to really listen today and take in everything that you're about to learn. Because if you do, Time will slow down. Your heart will soften. Your guard will drop. Your mind will expand. And you will know with every cell of your being that what you're hearing today is meant just for you. Because it is.

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That is the single best definition of purpose I've ever heard. And it's accessible. And I want to make sure that as you're listening to Jay and you're spending time together with us, that you really take away that definition.

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Because it's even when you're stuck or even when you've just got a lot going on, it's very easy to identify the little things in your life that energize you, whether it's books like Jay or for me, I love gardening and flowers and I love cooking. I love spending time with my family. I love making people smile. That brings me energy. Right? I love being outside. I love learning.

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And so when you take those things that naturally bring you energy and you do a little bit more of it, it lifts you up. But then when you figure out ways to extend those things that bring you energy in service of others, now you're on the track of discovering why you're here in the first place. Yes. and aligning your life with purpose.

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And so in that beautiful example you just gave and thinking about it energizes people to be part of something where you're caring for people.

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Yes.

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You know, I want to give an example because I feel like one of the mistakes that I made for a long time when it came to, quote, discovering my purpose is that I thought it was one thing and it's actually everything.

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And so when we moved to Southern Vermont and I remember feeling very stuck and in a new chapter and isolated and needing to like meet all new friends and build community that I learned of this flower farmer. And her flowers were, it was near the end of the summer and into fall and frost was coming and it's dahlias and you need to dig them up. And I'm getting really geeky on flowers.

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Jay Shetty is a person who is so hard to define because the impact that he has on people's lives transcends a label and it is truly global. I consider Jay to be one of my closest friends, especially in this business. To the world, he's known as the host of one of the most successful and award-winning podcasts on the planet. I'm talking about On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

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And the frost was starting to hit and it was an entire field and they were all going to die. And I felt this like ache because flowers bring me energy. I tracked down the person who was growing the flowers and found out that they had had a health issue. And so I organized a bunch of women that I had recently met to help this person dig up the tubers.

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That is an example that has nothing to do with career. It has nothing to do with my life's mission and all the things I do for work. It is a small example of how I took something that energized me And use that energy that's authentic to me in service of someone else.

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And that small example is an example of how you can infuse a sense of purpose in your day-to-day life in really small but deeply meaningful, important ways.

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Well, when we became friends, Jay, so, you know, like you and I have been friends for a long time. Yeah. And we are extremely supportive and fond of one another. Our spouses know each other. But when I first met you and Roddy, she had not launched this part of her life.

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Nothing.

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Well, I want to come back to two themes. and highlight it. You know, one of the things that you said is it's not about imagining the thing out there.

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It's about really stopping and listening and reflecting on what Jay is sharing with you about the fact that there's something that's already bringing you energy, that when you do it, it just brings something out in you and then finding ways to do it in service of others. So if you take the example of your wife, She's focused on cooking as an act of love. It's always been a creative expression.

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It naturally energizes her. And so she used that to lift herself up in a new chapter of her life. She found a way to be of service. And the amazing thing about life is that when you align yourself with the things that naturally energize you and you, let's come to a second thing we've talked about, Jade, trust. that where you are is somehow in service of where you're meant to go.

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He is also the number one New York Times bestselling author of two books, Think Like a Monk and Eight Rules of Love, which have been translated into over 47 languages. Jay is also the chief purpose officer for Calm, the wildly, wildly popular meditation app.

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Follow the energy and follow how you serve others in sharing that energy. And that is how you actually start walking in the path that is meant for you. And I just want to point out that not only is she a New York Times bestselling cookbook author, but the name of the cookbook is Joy Fuller. full as an F U L L because you're full of her fabulous vegan cooking.

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And so she didn't start cooking and serving people in LA because she's like, I'm going to write a cookbook one of these days. Exactly. She did it to lift herself up at a moment in her life where where she was stuck and where she was moving to a new place. And so it's so important to understand it's not the thing that you're imagining.

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It's the energy in you and it's the ability to shift your mindset and trust that if you leverage that positive energy in service of others, it always points you where you're meant to go.

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Do you think that your life, if you look backwards, also provides answers for what energizes you? Because I think it's a very important point to validate that we are at a moment in time where the research bears out that over 80% of us are living in a state of chronic stress. Yes.

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The feeling of being numb is very, very common right now and probably a sign that you're actually mentally well because there's so much chaos and overwhelm and stuff.

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But so validating that, and even if somebody turns inward and doesn't quite feel it, are there other things that someone can do that you would recommend to help access that if you're just at a point where you're just, I am so spent, I don't even know myself anymore? Yes.

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He is a former monk who has reinvented himself over and over again, and his work and his life are going to help you find greater purpose and meaning in yours. Please help me welcome the remarkable Jay Shetty to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh my gosh, Jay Shetty in the house in Boston. This is just, I have been waiting to welcome you in here in person. Jay, my friend, I'm so excited you're here.

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So Jay, for the person who's listening, who's now scanning their life and thinking about what they're good at and they're coming up with nothing.

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You know, it's interesting. I remember this was like two years before I started the podcast. Yeah. would literally listen. I still listen to your podcast, Jay, and watch your videos and find so much inspiration from you. I didn't realize I kind of did that with you because I was very stuck.

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I had reached a point where I was so tired of being on planes and doing the motivational speaking at corporate events, even though I loved it. And I so wanted to to get into the podcasting space. And I always know when I want something because unlike you, who is a very like loving and positive person, my signs show up as jealousy. I don't have the monk version.

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I have the Mel Robbins version of inspiration. It's sort of like agitation, right? And so you have this incredible podcast and I literally felt so jealous and excited for you, but jealous because I'm, she's doing it. That means I can't do it. And you know, I, it's already done. And since he's already doing, he does such a great job with on purpose and the most perfect name.

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And you know, there's like, you kind of see it in somebody else. And you literally said to me, Mel, you know what you should be doing? You really, when are you going to launch a podcast? Like you would destroy it. And so you reflected to me the thing that you saw as the next thing that made the most sense.

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And so I love that advice because the people who do know you well can see the things that you don't see in yourself or see the possibilities that you are actively holding yourself back from.

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Jay, this feels like the perfect moment to hit pause. And I really want to give you a chance while you're listening to our amazing sponsors to share this with somebody that you care about. There is no doubt that this conversation is going to open up possibilities for somebody that you love. So take a moment, share it with them and don't go anywhere. Jay and I are just getting started.

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We are going to be waiting for you after a short break. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel. And today you and I are getting to spend time together with my dear friend, Jay Shetty. We're talking about purpose and love and meaning and what to do when you feel stuck in life. This is a conversation that everybody that you care about deserves to hear.

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So thank you for sharing this with people that you love. And speaking of people that you love, Jay, I just love you. And, you know, one of the things that you've said that I also love is you said weak people focus on others' weaknesses, strong people focus on their strengths. Can you unpack that?

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I love that. And that's exactly what I did. The thing that's interesting is that, you know, the reason why I wanted to highlight that jealousy can be a useful tool. Yes. Jealousy for me is very different than envy because when I would look at you, I would never envy you like you don't deserve that.

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Jealousy for me is this deep stirring because it's impossible to be jealous of something that's not meant for you.

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And so I've never been jealous of anybody who drives a Lamborghini. I've never been jealous of anybody that lives in a penthouse apartment. I've never, you know what I'm saying? I don't want those things. But there was something about the way that you took something that energizes you, learning, connection, purpose.

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He is a friend who has helped me become so much clearer and courageous about my purpose in life. And I cannot wait for you to be able to spend time together with him and with me today. I mean, he just has this gift. It's as if whenever I hear him speak, it's almost like you're hearing the best sermon of your life, but only as you're talking to a really good friend.

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And you created a business that was in service to others around the things that energize you. And that's what was, I think, ultimately the thing that was stirring something in me. And it's a super, super useful tool. But the other thing I wanted to validate is that the second I said, I'm going to walk toward this thing, I'm going to figure this out.

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I spent two years studying you, talking to you, and that piece of allowing yourself, and it goes back to what you said about the experiment. Learn, reflect, and part of reflecting is experiment with something. I was a student for two years. There's a reason why we came out of the gate and launched two episodes a week.

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It's because I learned from you that if you do want to have a successful show, you have to do at least that many episodes. And so the learning part and the studying others and allowing others to lead the way and to show you and to truly flip envy

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into learning from somebody, that is worth $100 million in your life to understand that everybody that is out in the world right now is somebody that you can learn from. It's just unbelievable. And so thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing that. And there's another quote that you have that I absolutely love, Jay. We judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.

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What does that mean?

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Jay, you're going to make me cry. Thank you. Oh, so that, okay, I got to pull myself together. I would love to start by having you speak directly to the person who is with us right now.

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Do you have like a little trick? Because my like emotions and pettiness can just flood me. Like I've never had training as a monk, Chase. I would imagine like your sort of engine doesn't rev as high as mine, but it is so easy to see friends out.

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together and then immediately judge them for their actions, that they're excluding you, that they must be talking about you, that now they're closer than you are to them, that it means something, it means you did something. And then of course you respond to all of that emotion. We are so fast to assume. Is there anything that you do or that you recommend that people do?

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Mel, there's this thing, I don't know if you've heard of it, it's called the Latin theory.

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How might they feel different if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us today, wisdom that you've learned, lessons that you want to share, mistakes that you've made, what could change about their life?

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Dude, I think those are the hardest people to talk to though.

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And that's not who they are. Amazing. Here's another thing that you said recently, Jay, that I love. Someone out there would love to live your worst day. What does that mean?

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How do you use gratitude?

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to lift yourself up in a moment that is extraordinarily difficult? You know, you're grieving, you're in the middle of a breakup or a divorce, you've lost your job. Is there a way to use gratitude to lift yourself up when life just really has knocked you down?

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So there's the time for grieving, of course. Absolutely. And that's the mentally healthy response to have the avalanche of emotions.

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I've never actually thought about it like that. I was sitting there the moment you said it, and I thought, how would I feel if Jay wasn't in my life? And I'm grateful for you, but the second I envisioned you, sorry, Jay, evaporating and not knowing you as a friend, it's like it 10X'd it.

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And even the example of, you know, you said the finger, like I was in the hotel the other night and I was walking to the bathroom, of course, as a 56-year-old woman at three o'clock in the morning, and I hit my toe on the bed frame. And it feels like you've ripped it off your foot.

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It's amazing to me that my experience of that is, you know, screaming in agony and then thinking, how can something so little hurt so much? And your reframe is, imagine my life without my foot and the gratitude that floods you. I mean... That's incredible, Jay.

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I really... I want to thank you for that because especially that last part about you can actually kind of do things out of fear or you can have the fuel and the energizing source of it be gratitude. And I'll give you an example. Please. So my dad is 80 years old. And I think a lot about the fact that if I'm lucky, I'm going to get 10 more, maybe 15 more if I'm crazy lucky.

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holidays with him, birthdays with him. And I realized as I'm listening to you that I've been coming from this sense of fear because there's this sense like, I got to make the most of the time that I have while I have the time.

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And I can take what you just shared and say, I am so grateful that he's here that I want to make use of the time that I have while he's here, which is a very different energy to ground yourself in.

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Talk more about that.

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Jay, this feels like a great moment to hit pause. I mean, you and I could talk for hours and hours and hours, and we're gonna keep on going after a short break. And while you're listening to a word from our sponsors, do yourself a favor and spread the love. Share this conversation with people that you care about, because I know that it's gonna make you feel the love and connection to them.

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And when they hear from you, they're gonna be feeling more loved by you. And isn't that a beautiful thing? And another beautiful thing is that we got a lot more to talk about. So don't go anywhere. Jay and I are going to be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are spending time together with my friend Jay Shetty.

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Jay, another thing that you remind us all that I just love is that bad times reveal who the great people are in your life.

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I couldn't help but notice that you said listen and reflect. And then at the end, you said reflecting. Why is that so important to not just listen and then do, but to actually take that moment and reflect?

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It's so true. You're really good at that. You're really good at showing up for your friends.

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I want to dig deeper into that. Yeah, please. Because I feel like relationships have become extremely transactional. If I check in on you, you got to check in on me. That's the sign that you care. And I love what you just said, that there are going to be times where you show up for people and they're not going to show up for you either because they can't

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or they don't know what's going on, or they got other things going on, or they're not actually the right person to support you right now. And them showing up is going to feel more like a burden. And so maybe that's also, spiritually speaking, why they're not showing up. And I love the fact that if you think about love like a circle and you show up because that's who you are,

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And in those moments when you need support, recognize that there actually are people around you trying to support you or that are capable of it if you simply let them know that you need it. That's a completely different way to think about things because we keep score in relationships.

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And that if I'm the one that's always reaching out to my siblings, that if they don't reach back to me, that it means they don't care. And sometimes it actually just means that's not how they express their love. Yes. And that the thing that you're seeking from them actually is going to come from a friend.

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And if you're keeping score in your relationships, you're actually the one that's going to destroy them. Can you like dig into that with me, Jay?

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Jay, it really... As I was listening to you, I was first of all thinking about what an asshole I am in my marriage. So thanks a lot. We love you, Chris. Because I so saw myself, right?

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Yeah. And then something extraordinary happened as I was listening to you. And that is... What a shame that most of us are so busy looking for the one way we expect to be loved that we miss all of the love that is around us and available to us that we don't let in. And what an opportunity to have a shift and really

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change the way that you see life, you see relationships, and what you open yourself up to. If there's one thing from that perspective and what you learned about yourself and what you learned about what's possible, that being loved the way you want to be loved is your job. It's God's job. It's the universe's job. It's not somebody else's job. And I would say learning how to allow in

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other people's expression of love is a huge opportunity for you. Whether it's your friends, whether it's your parents, whether it's, you know, your kids, your partner, everybody. Like, how do you do that? Especially if you've been a first-class asshole like me. Me too, me too. You didn't do it this way. And I thought, you know, like nobody texted me on the thing and nobody checked in.

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Like, we're so focused on what's not happening that you're blocking what actually is. And then you just keep preventing it from being an experience that's available to you right now.

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You actually talk about this a lot online, the power of calling somebody, the power of texting somebody, and how much we underestimate this small action. And you also said that we have this amazing sense to sense when somebody needs you. And what I would ask us all to consider is that the people that you care about always need you. And that check-in

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is you doing something that we all need, which is this small act of loving somebody and seeing them and just saying, I have you in mind. One of the reasons why I always tell the person who's listening that I love them is because I think we just vastly inflate what that word actually means. And to me, when you look at the word love, it's two things. It's you admire something

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in someone else, some quality, some characteristics, something about them. And you consider them, you have them in mind.

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And if you admire somebody, something about their values, something about how they show up in life, something about who they are, what they mean to you, and you have them in mind, to your point, sending a text, just to say, I was just thinking about, you're making somebody a cup of coffee with the cashew milk because that's what they care about. That's actually an act of love. It is.

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And if we go all the way back to the janitors in the hospital who say that they are healers because they believe that having a clean space for families to gather, for people to heal is a sacred thing to do for the healing process, then you are demonstrating an act of love. How do you think about love?

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Because I feel like, you know, we're coming out of this conversation about how we block it because we're expecting it to be expressed in a certain way and that it is all around you. And you're a person in my life that you show up. I mean, there's what you do, which is your job. And the things that you are doing that is in service of the world, but it's not who you are.

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And my experience of you is somebody who is the expression of love.

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It's as if time slows down, your heart softens, your guard drops. Your mind, it just expands. And suddenly, it's as if the words he's speaking were meant just for you. Who am I talking about? None other than Jay Shetty. Now, if you're not already one of his 50 million followers online, I am certain you will be after spending time with us today. See, Jay doesn't just talk about change.

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I've never heard anybody explain it that way.

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Well, it makes so much sense because you're right. Like I think you can hear an idea and you can try it once. And then if it doesn't feel the way you want it to feel, most people stop.

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And I've never thought about the fact that if you don't actually know that trying something and then reflecting on what worked, what didn't work, tweaking it, experimenting, as you said, you're always going to stop.

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Don't do that. There's so many people that feel isolated and lonely, Jay. If somebody's listening and they're like, the shades are down, Jay, and there aren't people in my life, what is one thing somebody can do that recognizes that the shades are drawn for whatever reason?

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How do you start to crank it back up and let all of that that is available to you, friendship, love, connection, possibility, hope, all of it? What's one thing that somebody could do?

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Oh my God. You're making me think of a teacher that I wish was still with us. He was my middle school and high school math teacher. I loved math. Yeah. Mr. Core, Glenn Core, he was a military guy. So we had a crew cut and he always wore those like short sleeve collared shirts and he had the protector and the glasses and the whole thing. And God, did I love math. And he would always call people up

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You know, Jay, so many people look to you because you have written just incredible blockbuster books. You have millions and millions of followers. Your podcast is a podcast I listen to. Your podcast is a podcast that inspired me to get into the podcasting space. No, you're going to make me cry. No, I'm serious.

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to solve problems on the chalkboard. And I can feel him like handing the chalk to me, right? And so you would like solve the chalk things and then he'd coach you through it. And then we'd talk about the problems, but he had this thing that he would do where if somebody started to struggle or get frustrated or feel really stupid, he would turn to the class and say, what do I always say?

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And we would all recite back, perseverance wins. And he would take his chalk and he would write, perseverance wins. And they would underline it. And then we'd be like, exclamation, exclamation. And it's true. It like seeped into my pores. And I think more than anything else that I, yes, planted seeds. but just kept going. That perseverance wins part of just don't quit. That's part of it.

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If you open yourself up to learning, to experimenting, to all of the abundance that is available to you out there, eventually it comes.

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I promise you, it will come back. you could share this episode, this conversation with people that you care about and tell them how much this conversation made you think of them and realize how much you love them. Like, what a beautiful thing. And, you know, I was curious, Jay, you've shared so much, you've poured into us with such just grace and wisdom.

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And, you know, I knew this was going to be extraordinary. I am just blown away by the impact that this will make in the person's life who's listening, the impact it's made in my life, how it has truly brought us closer. I'm so excited for all the things that you're working on.

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If there was one thing that you want the person who's listening to do, just one thing, the most important thing to really focus on coming out of just how generous you have been with all of us. What is the one thing today?

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And so I think there are times in your life, and you've certainly felt this way, where you're really lost and unhappy and you feel stuck. And I know you've been there. And so I would love to just, before we kind of dig into specifics and unpack some of the lessons from your life, what would you say to somebody?

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You know, as you're listening, I want to point out something that just happened. You probably saw it if you're watching on YouTube. As Jay just shared that with you, what has been a wildly dreary and ugly day here in Boston shifted and sunlight came streaming in and lit you up like a spotlight from above. Did you feel that?

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Well, I took the, I was hanging on every word and I realized I'm in the movie and I really want to be present and experience it. Jay Shetty, what are your parting words, my friend?

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Well, Jay, I think when things feel dark, the job in life is to glow. And you've definitely taught me how to do that.

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who really does feel kind of lost right now or stuck or doesn't know what their next move is? And how do you want the person who feels that way to think about that moment where you feel like you don't know what to do next?

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I want to give you a big hug too. I love you. I love you too. Really, really love you.

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Jay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I also want to thank you for listening and watching all the way to the end. And what I'm really excited about is I agree with you, Jay, that you're already moving into the right direction. And everything that Jay poured into you and into me today, as the sun is even getting brighter in here in our studios in Boston, is how you turn on that switch.

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And you actually tap into not only the light that's inside you, but you also, we talked a lot about receiving. That is a skill that I had to learn. And when you focus on noticing what's around you and allowing it in, you will feel more loved. You will feel better. I just so believe that.

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And I wanted to tell you in case no one else does that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And there is no doubt in my mind that based on everything that Jay just poured into you, you actually will. Alrighty, I'll see you in a few days. I'll be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

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This is my grand... Oh, this top. I thought you meant this tabletop. I was like, this is my grandmother's kitchen table.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, of course you are.

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Now, is that an invitation to go to India with you? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm serious. I'm like, kick the door open. Let me go.

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Jay Chetty.

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Oh, God. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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Can you give an example? You know what I'm saying? Because I think I understand what you're saying. Like I'm trying to think about a scenario where let's say somebody is at a moment in their life where there's a change. You have gone through a breakup or maybe you've raised your kids and they've launched and now you're trying to figure out your next chapter.

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Maybe you just lost your job and now you're like, oh my God, what do I do? What are the kinds of things that people hold on to that you may not realize This is what you're actually holding on to.

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He teaches you how to create it. He doesn't just share wisdom. He makes you wiser. So no matter how you feel right now or what season of your life you may be in, I promise you what you're about to hear is exactly what you need to hear right now. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and I am absolutely thrilled that you are here. The conversation today is going to be extraordinary.

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That is so important because so many people stay where they are because they don't know where they want to go next. And I always say, well, actually, if you can be honest with yourself and say, I just don't like how my life feels anymore, you're already moving in a new direction because you're moving away from what's not working.

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I have one more example to give you because what you just said was brilliant. You have this ability, Jay, to just take... wisdom, philosophy, psychology, and make it so immensely obvious that I both feel inspired and sort of like an idiot that I didn't see it, you know, myself.

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But no, I have one more example to give you about this feeling of being stuck because there are so many people that have artistry inside themselves. whether it's wanting to start a YouTube channel or it's wanting to become a singer or it's wanting to express themselves on social media or it's wanting to learn how to market themselves better on social media.

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And yet there is so much resistance to putting yourself out there. And so in this paradigm where we're talking about holding on to something and grieving who you used to be,

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If somebody is actively fighting against their deep internal desire to start putting themselves out there in a new chapter, whether it's marketing a business or starting a YouTube channel or performing and singing on, whatever it may be, what is it that you're holding onto?

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Okay, say more about that.

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I just read this crazy statistic. It kind of blew my mind, but at the same time, it made a ton of sense. And I think it's going to make a lot of sense to you too. And it's this. Based on research, 70% of us right now are living our lives in a state of chronic stress. And this isn't just a feeling.

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Okay, I really want to try to understand this because when you said the word horizonlessness, I immediately had that image of standing kind of on a beach, this is what came to my mind, and looking out at the ocean or Lake Michigan, which is where I grew up, and all you see is a blank horizon, nothingness beyond the edge of the ocean. And to me, that sounds like a lack of direction.

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And then I immediately think about like our oldest daughter when she came back from this backpacking trip that she had planned for and saved for for eight years and then all of a sudden gets home and has no job and is like, oh my gosh, now what?

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Or I think about friends that are going through a divorce or they have a major job change or they get a diagnosis and they look out on the horizon and they don't have a sense of direction. That's what I thought this was.

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But it sounds like that's only a part of it, that a big piece of horizonlessness is this like inability to feel excited about your future because of the amount of stress that has been building up. Am I am I processing this correctly?

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Oh.

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Well, what's interesting is if I think about the thing that I've learned from you about stress, is that medically speaking, if you're in this kind of stress response where you're on edge and your amygdala is turned on, If I recall, you can't leverage the part of the brain that helps you plan and think ahead and get excited about things.

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The good news is you have power because your power is in how you respond to these things. And you're going to learn three things to do today that will help you lower the stress. It will help you reset your nervous system. This is all coming from Dr. Aditi. You're going to love this. So you are in the exact place at the exact time where you need to be.

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Is that part of the reason why this horizonlessness is so common right now? Because people have been so freaking stressed out that they can't even turn on the part of the brain that helps them get excited and plan and look to the future? That's right.

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So I want to try to really land the plane because I feel like this could be a huge aha as you're listening to Dr. Nurikar, either for you or for somebody that you care about. Because I think when somebody gets into a state where... In your language, medically speaking, your brain is locked in a stress response, which is why you're so overwhelmed and blah and stuck and lacking of energy.

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And you're bringing in this term, this horizonlessness. It's easy to blame it on, I'm stuck, I'm depressed, I'm this, I'm that. And you're actually saying, wait a minute, before you start to label it these big things, Really take a look at the fact that this is a hidden cause of chronic stress. And this is also the result of you holding so much in and managing so much uncertainty.

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And then the dam freaking breaks and you don't have the capacity in your brain to be able to look ahead and get excited about anything. I can think of dozens of people in my life. I can think of periods in my life where I've felt this way. And what do you do? Like, could you talk to someone that is listening to us right now that is this is resonating, why does it matter that they label it this?

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And what the heck do you do if you go, oh, I think I'm dealing with this thing that Dr. Nurikar is talking about, or I think that my son or daughter is. It's not that they're lazy and they can't get a job. It's not like that they don't have any ambition. They have this thing that Dr. Nurikar is talking about.

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What does that mean?

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I just got this. Oh my God. Okay, so this is what you feel after you've been trying to hold it together under all this stressful stuff. And then all of a sudden, either the stress is over because the divorce is done or the diagnosis has happened or you found the job after the job search or you made it through the really terrible quarter at work.

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And by the time you're done listening, you're going to have your power back. You're going to learn how to lower your stress and you're going to feel more energized. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here. And first of all, it is always such an honor to be able to spend time together with you.

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And now the dam is broke because you don't have to hold it together anymore. And what happens when that dam breaks is it floods your brain and now your brain is drowning and you can't leverage the motivation or the clarity to figure out how to get excited about life again. Is that right? Nailed it.

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This is terrible. So what do you do about it? So like if somebody's like, oh my God, you've just described my life. What do you do? Like, how do we move forward?

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Because I think in seeing this, and that's the point of the four things that you're going to talk about today, that you have to understand that this is a common thing and understand the medical issue that's going on so that you can take the steps to that remove this as a source of stress. So what do you do if you're like, that's true, I've been holding it all together. The dam is broken.

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I'm exhausted. I can't get excited about life. I don't even know how to motivate myself anymore. And even when I do push myself out of bed or to the gym, it lasts like a millisecond. So how do we clear this horizonless out of somebody's life so that you can get excited about what you're looking at in terms of your own future?

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I am so excited about today's conversation because I know that by the time we're done today, you're gonna just feel more peaceful. You're gonna feel more in control. And I so want that for you. And I also wanna take a moment to welcome you. If you're brand new, this is the first time that you've listened to an episode, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. The fact that you've hit play

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You know what I love about the way that you talk about stress? I love that you blame it on biology. And I love that you are blaming it on the brain function and normalizing that this is exactly how your brain and body works when it gets overloaded. And this is not the moment to set new goals. This is not the moment to start an exercise routine. This is not a moment to start like...

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putting more stuff on your to-do list and just powering through, you're saying as one of the most renowned medical doctors and experts on stress in the world, that this is actually a medical condition. And just like if you broke your freaking leg, you wouldn't be playing pickleball on it this afternoon. You need to let it rest and reset. Recognizing that horizonlessness is a symptom

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of an overloaded brain in terms of the stress response and recognizing that you gotta give it time to be able to reset itself, To me, like that makes, because a lot of times when I'm super stressed and somebody's like, oh, you got to take a break, you got to slow down. I'm like, no, I can't because I'm so stressed. But if a medical doctor says, you have a brain stuck in stress mode.

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This is a sign that tells me this is so. And just like you have to repair a broken bone and not to say that your brain is broken. but that you've got to get your brain working correctly and the biology reset before you'll be able to feel excited about the future again.

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Okay, so let's break down the two things that you're going to do because we now know we can't step on the gas. We now know because you've made us smarter that when you feel this way, it's not a sign that your life is going nowhere. It's a sign that stress has overwhelmed you and you need to take care of yourself so that your normal, amazing functioning can come back online.

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And you say there are two things that you can do. immediately that are free and what are they?

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on this episode tells me something important about you. It tells me that you're the kind of person that truly values your time, that you're making time to listen to something that can help you improve your life, that can help you feel better, and today's conversation is absolutely going to do that.

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Some days, some days. And I'm going to be honest with you. Because when you said, look forward to your cup of coffee or go for a walk or journal, I almost... rolled my eyes. Because when you feel that loss, and I have definitely felt that way in my life, where I look out and I'm like, this is really what my life is? For real?

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And I felt a sense of relief when I hear from Dr. Aditi, oh wait, this is a biological response to an overwhelming amount of stress. This too shall pass if I give myself the space to allow it to pass. When you listed off the particular things to do, it kind of is like, okay, throw away advice, whatever. I've heard this a million times.

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But when you said the word agency, something interesting happened. And this is what I want to highlight to make sure as you're listening, you really understand the power of the action. See, when you feel stuck or hopeless, I'm just going to speak for myself here. And I'm going to speak on behalf of my family when I've witnessed them being in their stuckness and hopelessnesses.

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The emotion itself makes you feel like doing nothing. And as you do nothing, you feel even worse. And so the condition is keeping you from doing the simple and on the surface dumb things that do make a difference physiologically, neurologically, and medically speaking.

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And so if you kind of had that eye roll moment when you heard look forward to your tea or take a bath or journal or walk, I am so with you. And so is Dr. Aditi because she's like smiling. She did run the largest stress clinic like for Harvard Medical System here in Boston. The issue is agency.

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And what Dr. Aditi is talking about is that when you go for that walk, even though you say this isn't going to help, The action of walking proves that you don't believe you're stuck. When you say, I'm going to look forward to that coffee, the action itself is proving that you are going to start looking forward to things.

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And we're going to talk about stress and we're going to talk about ways that you can lower your stress. But I want to put this inside a much bigger context for you because this episode happens to be releasing on Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Day here in the United States. And a couple weeks ago, I had the extraordinary honor of sitting down with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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When you crack open the gratitude journal and you have nothing that you're grateful for and you find something anyway, the fact that you can still hold a pen, the fact that you have a journal, the fact that you got a moment, you are proving through the action that the emotions don't rule you. And that's why this matters, right? Well, we can even go back to physics, right?

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Can you tell me how long this is going to take? Because I've been in that mode of feeling completely in the molasses of emotion.

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's son and his daughter-in-law. They have a brand new podcast called My Legacy. It was an extraordinary experience. And during that wide-ranging conversation, which I can't wait for you to listen to, we covered so many topics. We, of course, talked about the Let Them Theory and

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I love that you have, as a doctor, given us the medical explanation for what's behind this feeling and how it's causing stress and reminding us that it's not about doing more. It's really about letting your body reset itself, which it's designed to do.

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If you simply focus on the things that you know you should do, get better sleep, push yourself through the emotion, take the walk, start to step back into your life, and slowly but surely, you will start to feel like yourself again. Dr. Aditi, I know I've said it before, but I just love all of the wisdom and the science and the tips that we can put to use immediately.

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There are so many people that I'm going to share this with. And as you're listening, please share this episode because it will really make a difference in someone else's life. And it's a simple way to say, I really care about you. And you can send them Dr. Aditi to help. Alrighty, we're going to take a quick pause here. A word from our sponsors.

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We will be waiting for you with more tips, more wisdom, more science after a short break. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. I'm so glad you're still here because we are learning so much from Harvard's Dr. Aditi. And Dr. Aditi, I had another question that came to mind.

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There is a second factor that is causing a tremendous amount of stress for people right now and surprisingly impacting the 20-somethings. And I'd love to hear you share about this second topic of loneliness.

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And I've been talking a lot about the Let Them Theory, which is a simple mindset tool that helps you identify in a moment what's in your control and what's not in your control. And there was something that Martin Luther King III said to me on his podcast, My Legacy.

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78% of kids in their 20s are struggling with loneliness? Yes. And here's one thing I want to say. I know that there's a big light at the end of the tunnel about what we're going to do about this. So as you're listening, I don't want you to get like super depressed. Like part of the reason why I wanted to talk to you about these four topics is because people are struggling on their own with this.

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And when you think that you're struggling on your own, you beat yourself up and it makes it worse. And there are very simple things you can do to understand the topic and to do something about it. That the power truly is in your hands if you understand that this is something very common and you're not alone in struggling with it. Can you explain the difference between loneliness

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versus spending time alone? What is loneliness?

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Got it. Okay. There's also research that you wanted to share about how damaging this is to your health.

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that I wanted to share with you because I think it sets up the conversation that we're about to have in a much more powerful and profound way in terms of what's available to you based on what you're going to learn today. And here's what he said as we were talking about this issue of recognizing when something is out of your control. And that true power lies in your response.

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Wait, so if you're feeling lonely, which means you're emotionally disconnected from other people, it has the same health risk as smoking 15 cigarettes a day?

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I think this is a really important topic because I have gone through major periods in my life where I realized that I was extremely lonely. And what felt really bizarre about it is that I was surrounded by people. So when I was traveling a lot from work, I was on planes with people all the time.

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I would go to events and there would be thousand people in the audience and people backstage and I'd be talking to people, but I constantly had this just nagging sense of not being alone, but being lonely.

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Yes. And there are even stages in my marriage where I think about kind of Chris and I in our corners and we're deep in caring for young kids and, you know, his business is struggling or we're just not communicating well. Life has become all about the logistics that we're not really connected that I... We've both felt really lonely in our marriage. And...

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I'm thinking about our son who's starting college and the experience of not finding your people yet. And you're around all these people, but you don't really know anybody and you feel lonely. So recognizing that this is super common is the first step. But what is your recommendation to in terms of what you do about it.

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Because I think part of the process about feeling lonely is that I don't know about how you feel as you're listening, but if I'm in a room and I feel lonely or like I don't have anybody to talk to, the fact that other people are around makes me feel worse because it seems like everybody else has a friend or everybody else doesn't have a problem with this.

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And then that makes me kind of withdraw more, which means now I'm even more isolated.

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What you're going to learn today is that this is actually a medical condition. It's a physiological state when you feel chronically stressed out. And so I want you to hear something. If you're feeling like you're constantly tired, if you woke up today and you're like, why can't I just like get back into the groove? What is going on? I want to tell you something. This isn't your fault.

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And we're going to really focus on that today. But I want you to hear these words from Martin Luther King III. As he was reflecting on the power of the let them theory, he said, Mel, when you say let them, this is a truth that defined my father's leadership. that true power lies in our response. My father believed that nonviolence was not passive, but it was the most courageous form of action.

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We don't talk about it because you feel like a loser when you're lonely. Because the perception is, where did all my friends go? And why does everybody's life look like a big party? And I literally am not connecting with anybody. And I will share a quick story because again, I think one of the things that I am really passionate about is highlighting why something matters.

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Because oftentimes on the surface, the solution to a problem that you're facing, and let's be honest with each other, loneliness is a huge problem. You deserve to have amazing friends. I remind myself all the time that some of the most favorite people that I will meet in my life, I have not even met yet. And that sense of hopefulness that there are extraordinary people on the road ahead and

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That makes me shake loose from that emotional straitjacket that can take hold. And I remember, and I want to share this because I think it's really important. When we moved, so I lived in Boston or outside of Boston with my husband and our three kids for 26 years. Sense of community, you know where you are.

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And then we moved to Southern Vermont, like so many people did over the past four years, relocated to different areas as hybrid work picked up. I woke up in a brand new place that I was, by the way, excited to be in and was like, what have I done? I didn't see my friends back in Boston. Now I'm in this whole new community and I sat in my house for months.

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I was that statistic of I didn't talk to people for two weeks at a time. And I just fed into this, I'm never going to meet people. I'm so lonely. How am I going to break in when everybody's got their friend groups? And I will tell you firsthand, which is why I'm so passionate about this research. Do you want to know how I finally made friends, Dr. Aditi? Please, I would love to.

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I got my rear end out of the freaking house. I think I was struggling with loneliness and the horizonlessness at the same time. It was like all crashing down. I forced myself to go to this coffee shop that I loved. Now, mind you, I had been going there, but I didn't talk to anybody.

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I would get my coffee and then I'd sit in the corner and I would feel sorry for myself and I'd read my book and then I'd go home and I'd cry to Chris and I have no friends and I'm really lonely and why do we move? And then finally, I just started to turn to the people next to me. Hi. It's awkward. Do you guys live here? And you start casual conversation. Exactly what you're talking about.

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And what ends up happening is this. When you feel lonely, you don't feel connected to anybody. When you start to say hello to the people that you bump into in your day-to-day life, you are building a crazy scaffolding of familiar faces. You don't need to know their life stories. Simply saying hello to people made me feel like I was part of a community.

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Choosing peace when hatred tries to provoke, by refusing to react with bitterness, we reclaim our power and shape a better future. I just love that. He went on to say, let them doesn't mean you're giving away control. It means you're reclaiming it. By choosing how we respond, not by feeding into anger, hatred, or negativity, we exercise the ultimate power over ourselves.

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And one awkward hello at a time, it took me about six months. And that's why I like to say, how long does this take? How long do I need to keep doing this? For me, one hello at a time to bump into some of the most favorite people that I've ever met in this teeny little town that I now live in. And so it's the same advice I give to my son who's now in college.

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You have to get out of your dorm room and stop watching your old life. And you have to start saying hello to strangers and the person who is emptying the waste paper baskets. Because the more familiar faces that you have, the more you feel connected and the more you come out of your shell. And I think sitting around expecting this to somehow solve itself is the worst thing that you can do.

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I am so grateful that you canceled everything on your calendar in order to be here with me and the person listening today. So thank you. I already know the first person I'm sending this to. And as we take a quick pause, we can hear a word from our sponsors, which allow me to bring this information to you at zero cost. Please take a moment.

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and share this episode with somebody who you would love to see feeling less stressed because the information that we've already covered and all that is to come will help them feel better. And it's something simple that you could do. Okay. Alrighty. We'll be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back.

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It's your friend Mel, and I'm here with the amazing Dr. Aditi, and let's just jump right back into it. Let's move on to the third kind of thing that's in the background that so many people are dealing with. I saw you put up a social media post about this report from the Surgeon General about... the level of stress that parents and caregivers are facing.

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As we're seeing with every topic, labeling it and calling it out as a form of stress is really important because that makes you realize you have to do something to take better care of yourself, that this is a real thing and it's not you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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As both my father, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. 's legacy says, and his father, Daddy King, and their vision of nonviolent action. You know, Daddy King once said, Mel, in the face of unimaginable loss, I refuse to let hatred reduce me.

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Because on your lifespan, I'm like, death? Wait, what? What's happening?

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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I guess the question that I have is, as I'm hearing this, and I'm thinking about this report, and I'm thinking about how stressful parenting is. And even when they leave, the problems are just bigger and more expensive. It's not that like that ever ends in terms of the stress and the worrying about, but you're talking about the acute stress of the caregiving aspect of always needing to be on and

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Do we need a shift cognitively where you just are like, okay, the next 18 years of my life, we're going to be wildly stressed out. And that means I'm doing this correctly. Sort of like you're like, okay, for the next nine months, I'm pregnant and I'm going to go wide. Then I'm going to go out. The pants are not going to fit. This is going to be what it's going to be. I'm not going to resist it.

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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I'm just going to jump right into it.

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Okay.

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And when you recognize the strength that you hold in your response, you realize that you hold the power and that you can transform your family, your community, and even the world. And today we are going to be talking about the fact that true power lies in your response. And if you're feeling stressed out or overwhelmed by the world around you,

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Okay, I want to highlight that. So you just said, and I want to make sure that as you're listening, because I think also a lot of us in the trenches of parenting or caregiving of an aging parent, which is also a grind on your stress as well, that There are different motivations for taking care of yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And if you're motivated by being the best parent that you can, understanding that your kids are four times more likely based on the research to have mental health issues. And general health issues. And general health issues. If you are not taking care of yourself, there's your reason why. I'm going to give you another one. You are not put on this planet simply to be somebody's mother or father.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And until you start to take care of your health, you will always limit the potential of what is possible for yourself. And you are also modeling for your children that what parenting looks like is sacrifice, stress, not taking care of yourself. And that's exactly what they're gonna grow up and do to themselves.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And if you want your kids to learn how to take care of themselves and how to be healthier and how to prioritize good habits, you have to model it. And it is possible for you to take care of yourself and to give a little bit more agency to your kids and to your partner if you have one and to ask for help.

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And these are all functions of a healthy human being, which is what you want your kids to grow up and be and what you deserve to be now.

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And one of the things that I love about your advice is that it constantly comes back to not sitting around waiting for somebody else to change this, but the power that you have in your own hands to make a decision that, yes, it's stressful, but you're going to get better at managing it. And sleep is a huge piece of this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Is there any other takeaway that you want somebody who is in the throes of caregiving to have as something that they can do now to better manage the stress? Because you can't remove all of the external stuff that's going on. You can only get better at how you respond to it and how you take care of yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Dr. Aditi, thank you. so much for taking time out of your incredibly busy schedule to not only come and bring the science and the passion and the research and to reveal these factors that a lot of us don't realize are very, very common and acute causes of stress, but more importantly, giving us specific things that we can do in order to feel better.

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You're awesome. And I wanted to make sure that in case no one else tells you that I tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And there is no doubt in my mind that learning what stress is and how to manage it is something that will help you live a better life. And you deserve that.

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that today you're going to get this deep sense of validation that you're not alone. that there are forces outside of you right now.

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So I hope you take absolutely everything that Dr. Aditi poured into you and shared with you and you not only use it to manage your own stress and to become happier, but that you share this with somebody that you care about because it's going to help them too. Alrighty, I'll see you in the next episode. sweating. You're sweating? Oh my goodness. Why? Profusely. Oh, for God's sakes. Really? Always.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Although I always joke that the worse I look, the better the content does. So. Seriously, all you need to do is show up and shine, woman. Do you know how hard it is to get a medical appointment with you? It is a gift, for God's sakes. Like, you are literally giving people world-class medical advice. Oh, I'm great. This isn't about me. It's just you and I going on a walk.

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If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Yeah, this is about the data. It's just making me laugh because I don't know. Good, good, because the more you are having fun... I love you so much. I'm having such a fangirl experience right now. You and I are going on a walk right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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What is a parasocial relationship?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And in fact, you're gonna learn about three things that are causing probably the most amount of stress for you or for the people that you love, because these are the three things that our expert today, Dr. Aditi Noorakar, based on her research, is saying are things that are out of your control and they create an extraordinary amount of stress for you.

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Is that a good thing? It's a great thing. Do I have mine? I love you. You're great. You're great. You're great. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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When you hear these things, you're gonna feel validated. And more importantly, we're then going to talk about how your power is not in those things out there. It's actually in your response to them. That's what the conversation is about. And you're going to absolutely love it. So let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Aditi. Dr. Aditi is a Harvard professor. medical doctor. She's a researcher.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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She's a bestselling author. She's a world renowned expert in stress and in public health. She is a lecturer at Harvard Medical School. She's also a mother and she's married and she's busy just like you and she understands the pressure that you're in. She was the medical director of Harvard Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital's Integrative Medical Program. What does that mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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That means she ran the largest stress management clinic, seeing patients every day and teaching them all of these integrative approaches, these evidence-based approaches that helped her patients feel better. And today, that's what she's going to do for you. She is going to help you feel more peaceful. She is going to help you get your power back.

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She is going to help you focus not on all the things out there, but on the power in here and the power of your response. And today specifically, she's going to highlight three key struggles that she sees in her patients every single day. She's going to validate how you're feeling. And more importantly, she's going to give you your power back.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Because you do have the power to change your response to the forces outside of you. And today you're going to learn how. So without further ado, you and I are going to go to our Boston studios where Dr. Aditi Noorakar and I are going to have this extraordinary conversation with you. Let's do it. Dr. Aditi Noorakar, I am so excited to see you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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This is what the majority of people are feeling. If you're feeling this, I know I'm feeling this, you're not doing anything wrong. See, what you're gonna learn today, because I'm like, oh, whoa, if 70% of us are dealing with this, I'm tracking down the world's leading expert on stress. She is here. Her name is Dr. Aditi Nur. You're going to love her.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Thank you, thank you, thank you for coming back to the studios in Boston. It's a pinch me moment.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Well, I got a high bar for you. So I don't want to freak you out, but my expectations are very high because the last time you and I had a conversation, you changed the way that I think about stress and And it has had a huge impact. And if you're listening to this episode, and this is the first episode that you've ever heard, don't worry. I will summarize it real quick for you.

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And I want to try to summarize it. And if I get something wrong, Dr. Aditi, I want you to fill in the gaps. But basically, I always used to think about stress as just this feeling, this kind of overwhelming thing that just... interfered with my life. I'm stressed out. I'm frustrated. I'm stressed. I'm this, I'm that. But I actually never understood what it was.

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And it wasn't until you said, Mel, medically and physiologically speaking, stress is when your prefrontal cortex or thinking brain turns off and this little second almond-shaped thing in the middle of your mind turns on. And all of a sudden, your brain is now in a response mode that has hijacked your ability to to be calm and to think.

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And the problem for, I think it was 70% of people, at least in the United States, is that we are living in a chronic state of the stress mode of your brain always being on. How'd I do?

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21 of the 30 people are feeling that way. That's crazy. And that's one of the reasons why I love the way that you're going to teach us about stress today is because it's one of those things that's humming along in the background. And if you understand this is actually a physiological and neurological state, it's not just the feeling in your body. but you have the ability to reset it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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And most people don't realize that you're actually struggling with something that's very common, that is the cause of the stress. And there are things that you can do about it once you actually understand what the hidden cause is. And the first one is a term that I had never heard of. Can you explain what the first one is?

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We're talking professor at Harvard Medical School. She is also the former director who ran the largest stress management clinic in the entire Harvard system. Her research is showing that 70% of us, that means you, it means me, it means the people that you care about, are in this physiological state where we're in fight or flight. This is why you're so tired.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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Okay.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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You said, okay, great, I can get through this. So is that what you mean by damn? It's like the wall goes up in your mind?

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Yeah.

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What do you mean? Wait, are we feeling the hopelessness or are we feeling the psychological safety?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Struggle With Stress & Anxiety, This Will Change Your Life

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This is why you're chronically feeling exhausted. And today we're gonna do something really cool because today Dr. Aditi is going to unpack her research and she's going to teach you that there are three things that are happening in the world around you that are largely out of your control. that are creating this condition of stress in you. But then she's going to give you the good news.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You and I are going to tackle one of the most agonizing questions that every single human being on this planet grapples with at some point. You might be grappling with this right now. What is the question? It's am I with the right person? is this the right relationship for me or is there someone else that's better out there?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Number one, major mistake is chasing the potential. That you're in a relationship with a fantasy in your head and you're not actually in a relationship with the person as they are. Rule number one in the let them theory is that human beings only change when they feel like it. And you will never be able to change another human being.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And the single biggest mistake that I see with anybody dating or anybody in a relationship is that you're holding on to the potential and you're living in a fantasy in your head and you're not accepting reality, which is why you need to let them be who they are and then decide what you're going to do about it. That is what you need to do. So that's mistake number one. is chasing the potential.

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Mistake number two is that you're with somebody and your values aren't aligned. You don't want the same things. And yet you're convincing yourself that eventually this person's gonna come around and convert to your religion. Or they're gonna come around and they're gonna wanna have children.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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So listen all the way to the end and I'll see you there. You can learn more at CelebrityCruises.com. Visit Celebrity.com for details. Ships registry Malta and Ecuador. Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so thrilled that you tuned in today. I'm just unbelievably fired up for our conversation because I have so much to share with you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Or they're gonna come around and they're gonna wanna sell all their possessions with you and travel around the world for two years. And the research is very clear on this. If you have to give up your dreams in order to stay with this person, this is not going to work.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And the reason why this is not going to work is because you will grow to resent the other person because you will blame them for being the reason why you didn't get to go to medical school or you didn't get to move over to the other side of the planet and have this adventure or you didn't get to have kids. And here's the hard truth.

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When you compromise your own values for the sake of a relationship and you give up on your dreams for the sake of staying with somebody else, The other person isn't to blame. You are. If you have dreams and a vision for your life, it is your responsibility to create that vision and to hold that vision for yourself.

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And one of the hardest things in the world is when you wake up and realize you love somebody and you care about somebody who fundamentally does not share the same vision about what they want in life. And if that is where you are at, then this is not a relationship that is going to make either one of you happy. And so that's mistake number two, that you think this is going to change and it's not.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Mistake number three is this 80-20 rule, that you're with somebody that has like 80% of the things that you want. But here you are in your mind thinking the 20% of things that aren't deep values, these are just nice to have, right? This is like the wishlist that we all, oh, I wish that they were taller. I wish that they were a little bit more athletic.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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I wish that they weren't so introverted at parties. It's more of a thing about like their personality or I wish that they were a better skier, whatever it may be. That you've got this sort of 20% out here. And what I often see is, is that people will dump somebody that has 80% of the deep, amazing, meaningful stuff. They're kind. They have a growth mindset. They're loyal.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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They treat you with respect. You have fun together, but you're just kind of in that stage, kind of like the stage. We all go through that stage because you're just kind of in a plateau in your relationship. And you end up breaking up, not for any reason,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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But just because that 20%, that sparkly stuff is missing, you think if you had somebody that would take you off on some romantic thing or that would buy you flowers more, that would dress a little nicer, that somehow that would make your life better. And then what ends up happening? You end up dating people that have the 20% and you realize, oh my God, the 80% is what mattered.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And I was just such a perfectionist, freak, FOMO, afflicted person that I've been chasing the 20%. We do this with our careers. We do this with our closet. We do this with our cars. We think that more, better, different is more, better, different. And oftentimes that stuff that you're chasing doesn't flipping matter. The people that are gorgeous right now are going to be ugly in 20 years.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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The people that are in shape right now are going to get fat when you get pregnant. The people that have a great job might get fired in five years, might lose it all. You don't know what's going to happen. But when you got somebody that has the 80% that really matters, they're aligned on the values and character, they make you feel like yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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You're kind of in the rhythm where it's boring, but okay. Maybe boring is a sign that the relationship is good. Maybe drama and conflict is what happens with people that only have the 20%. What if boring is your new normal? Because it means you're with somebody who's safe and stable. And so I'm outlining these three mistakes. You're not aligned on your values.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And in fact, the topic that we're going to dig into, which is this question, that we all grapple with at some point in our relationships. And I don't care if you've just been on a first date, if you're single, if you've been married for 28 years like I have, at some point, you're going to have this agonizing question, am I with the right person? This is normal.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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You're chasing the 20% when you have the 80%. Or you're simply ignoring the obvious and you're constantly chasing the potential. You're trying to fix. Like that's what you think love is. That's not what love is. Love is boring. Love is the 80%.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Love is the ability to talk to your partner about what's not working and what you need and to actually have your partner lean in and want to try to make things better. That's what makes a relationship work. And so here's the cool thing I want you to know. Having the conversation that things aren't working is how you make things work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Because if you have the conversation about what's not working and you ask open-ended questions and you apologize for your part of the frustrating dynamic, one of two things is going to happen. The person's either going to reveal that they're not the right person for you through their behavior and their response, or they're going to lean in and they're going to work on it with you.

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And that's a sign of a beautiful, healthy relationship. I'm willing to bet you haven't even had the conversation. I'm willing to bet that you haven't looked at whether or not you're making one of these three mistakes. And before you just break up with somebody, I want you to really look in the mirror and go, am I making one of these three mistakes? Have I had the conversation?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And if you haven't, then have the conversation. This feels like a really good place to take a pause because I just shared a lot with you and I'm sure your head is already spinning. And I'm sure one of the things that you're thinking about is a bunch of people in your life who need this conversation. I want you to share this episode with them.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Take a listen to our amazing sponsors and don't go anywhere. Because when we come back, we're going to continue to dig into these tools to give you the clarity, the courage, and the road forward that you deserve. Alrighty, stay with me. I'll be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And today you and I are using science and research and common sense to dig into the most grappling question out there that every human being faces, which is, am I with the right person today? And you're probably wondering, well, Mel, I have had the conversation. We've argued about the drinking and how much time they go out with their friends. We've talked about their ambition.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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We've talked about the fact that, you know, I really want to go to medical school. And if I go to medical school, I want you to come with me and I want you to support me through this. We have talked about the fact that I wish that you were more interested in watching football with my friends. And it goes nowhere. It goes absolutely nowhere. Instead, we just kind of talk about it. Nothing changes.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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I used to do this too. And the approach that you need to take, if you're sitting there listening to me and you're like, okay, noted Mel, I've been questioning. I've been wondering if this is the right person. And you're right. I haven't raised the issue or I've raised the issue and it's gone nowhere. I want you to use a technique that I write about extensively in my book, The Let Them Theory.

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The technique is something I call the ABC loop. And the reason why I call it a loop is because the ABC part, you're going to have to keep having over and over in a loop. And I'm going to tell you what the ABC part is. And then I'm going to walk you through how you have this conversation. A is when you apologize and you ask open-ended questions.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And there are things that you need to do and mistakes you need to avoid when you start to ask yourself this question. And we are going to unpack all of that. And I have so much to share with you because I've just spent the last two years writing a book called The Let Them Theory. An entire section of this book is about this topic.

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That's A. B means you're going to back off and you're going to watch someone's behavior. And C is when you are going to just compliment and celebrate any small change that you see. And you yourself are going to model the change that you wish your partner would have.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And I highly, highly, highly recommend if you're sitting there questioning a relationship, you follow the ABC loop formula before you break up. Because I guarantee you, you have not approached this the right way.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And using science, you can have a conversation that will reveal whether or not this is a person who is willing to grow, who can hear you, and who could possibly be the partner that you actually deserve.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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So I'm going to give you two scenarios of how you can use the ABC loop with anybody where you have an issue where it's bothering you and there's a standoff and you really want it to change, but it's pretty clear that the way you've been approaching it is backfiring because the change isn't happening. And the two examples we're going to talk about

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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One is when your partner has just let their health go and it could be anything health related. It could be their diet. It could be a lack of exercise. It could be that they've become really sedentary and now they're on their phone all the time or they're playing video games all the time and they're just not as active. Might be something mental health wise.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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They're just super negative and there's work that they could do or tools that they could be using and they're just not doing it. So that's one topic where a lot of couples get into a standoff. The second topic we're going to talk about is something that is a lot deeper and scarier. And that is when you have a conflict with somebody over a core value or a deep, deep, deep desire that you have.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And the topic we're going to talk about is kids. Let's just say you're with somebody and you want to have kids, but they don't. Or they want to have kids, but you don't. How do you handle these issues in your relationship?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And how do you use the tools and science to truly pull apart whether or not this is just a difference of opinion, or this is something you have to accept, or whether or not this is truly a deal breaker? So let's start with a situation where you're with somebody who's let their health go.

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How do you approach this topic in a way that both supports the change happening and also helps you determine whether or not this is a deal breaker for you? It might be related to their weight. It might be related to mental health issues and they are refusing to get therapy or to use their tools.

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These are very common and very challenging situations when you're in a partnership with somebody who is just not taking care of themselves. And you start to feel frustrated. And I know for me in my relationship with Chris, this happened when he was struggling with depression and he didn't want to use the tools.

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And I've had lots of friends who have had relationships or been married to people who used to be super athletic and And then all of a sudden, because of work or just because they just started feeling more and more unmotivated, they let their health go.

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And next thing you know, they're going up several sizes in pants and they aren't as active and they don't want to participate the way that they used to. And when it happens, and it's going to happen in your relationship, you tend to go on this curve where first you're really like encouraging. Like let's just take the example of wanting your partner to work out more, okay?

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Knowing whether or not you're with the right person or in the right relationship and unpacking the tools and the science that applies here, that is going to help you make the right decision for you. And I promise you, you're going to leave the conversation so empowered. And so thank you for hitting play. If you're brand new, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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And what do you do when you want your partner to work out more? You invite them to go to the gym. You say, let's go for a walk. You maybe buy them a personal training session. You buy them new sneakers. You get them athletic wear. And then as that doesn't work, what happens? You start to get a little annoyed and you start to then notice how your friend's partners are physically fit.

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You start to feel jealous about the fact that you see other couples going for a jog along the Charles River while your partner is, you know, sitting at home watching, you know, the ball game. Or you start to notice like, why is it that we used to go do all these things and we don't do it anymore? And you're frustrated.

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Because every time you come home from work and you see your partner sitting on the couch with a bag of chips in their hand with the television on, you're thinking, why can't you get your ass off the couch and go for a jog for crying out loud? Because I'm starting to find you not that attractive anymore. And it happens. And here's the mistake that we make.

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We, instead of inspiring and influencing change, we actually cause a standoff and resistance to change. You know, you and I think that we're doing the right thing. We're like, hey, you should really update your resume and work on it. That doesn't inspire and motivate the person that you love to change.

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In fact, what we know based on the neuroscience, and I write about this extensively in the Let Them Theory book in section six, which is all about the fact that you can't change other people. And when your partner starts to let themselves go, you are going to want to change them. Full stop. You're just going to want to because you want your partner to be vibrant. You want them to stay in shape.

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You want them to be active and healthy and to be alive long so that you guys can enjoy each other. So here's the problem. We quickly go from encouraging positive change by giving gifts and making recommendations or trying to be helpful.

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And what the science unequivocally says, and this comes from Dr. K, the healthy gamer, Harvard-trained psychiatrist who I absolutely love, that human beings are hardwired to be in control of themselves. Feeling like you can control your life and your choices makes you feel safe.

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And so when somebody else tells you, you should really brush up your resume, does that make you leap out of your chair and go, you're right, I should?

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It makes you go, I'll do that when I'm ready.

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When somebody says, you know, it's a nice day for a walk, you don't go, you're right, let's go. You go, thanks, Captain Obvious. I think I'll sit here on the couch. If I wanted to go for a walk, I'd be out for a walk. Next. And that's not somebody being a jerk. That's your brain wiring.

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Because when somebody else tries to force or pressure you to change, your own natural human wiring creates resistance to it. your pressure causes someone to push back. And look, I know because I've been in this situation with my adult kids. I've been in this situation with my husband, certainly, where I wanted them to change. I had amazing reasons for them to change.

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And one of the things that I know about you, because you chose to listen to this episode, is that you are interested in creating a better life. that you do know that you deserve happiness and that you deserve to be in a mutually loving, amazing relationship that brings out the best in you.

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This isn't some big values, like deal breaker, amazing standoff fight. I just want the best for them. But you can't want change for someone else. And when you try to force someone else to change, you actually create resistance to change. So you're the reason why there's no room for change. You need to understand something. People only change when they feel like it.

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Your partner will only take better care of themselves if they think it's their idea. And that's why you need the ABC loop. Because I said you couldn't change somebody. I never said you couldn't influence them. Your behavior has a profound influence on the people around you.

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And if you use the science and you understand that any pressure is going to create resistance, you got to create space and acceptance Because that space and acceptance of where the person is gives the other person the space to step into the change and feel like it was their choice.

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Because otherwise they just feel like you're a bitch or you're controlling and to shut you up, they got to do what you say. And that's not a healthy dynamic in a relationship. So here's how you use the ABC loop in the situation where your partner has let them go and you're worried about them. very worried about him.

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And there's a little bit of prep work I want you to do before you just jump into these conversations. The first thing I want you to do is to truly ask yourself, why does this bother you so much? Like, what is it that makes you feel like you got to parent this other adult? What is it about their letting their health go or this issue that you can't let go in the relationship? What is it for you?

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And the fastest way to get to the bottom of why this matters for you is to ask yourself why five times. Why do I care if my partner's health is gone? And you might start off by saying, because I'm worried about their health. And then you go, why? Well, because we used to do a lot of fun stuff and we don't do anything anymore. Why?

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Well, it makes me worried because I read in the paper the other day that this guy dropped dead of a heart attack at 15. I don't want that to happen to them. Or I see my other friends dating people that are super active and it bothers me. Why? Ooh, now this is where this gets interesting.

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Because oftentimes what you'll find when you ask five whys is you don't like the fact that the person has let themselves go because you think it looks bad for you. Because you feel like it's something to do with you. Or you may find when you get to these five whys that you are just deeply scared about this person's health.

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And so whether somebody who loves you forwarded you this, and now you're hitting play and you're listening to this episode and to this podcast for the first time, whether you have been on a first date,

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And it's important for you to start there because when you step into this conversation, you got to be able to own your side of the pressure and you also need to be able to apologize authentically. And so the ABC loop again is you're going to apologize and ask open-ended questions. Then you're going to back off and observe behavior.

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And then you're going to model change and celebrate any small forward progress in a very authentic way, no passive aggressive comments. And you're going to do it for three months. So you're going to sit down. You're going to apologize for being a jerk. I'm so sorry that I've been texting you workouts through DMs. I'm so sorry that I've been pressuring you.

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I am so sorry that I've made offhanded comments. I love you. I am trying to support you. And I've just never even asked you, how do you feel about your health? What does it feel like for you in terms of how I have shown up? How can I show up differently for you? What do you want? And it doesn't matter what they say. You are there to listen. You're there to ask questions.

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If they say, my health is fine, you say, what's fine about your health? Why do you say it's fine? And again, I'm going to remind you, the point isn't the words that come out of their mouth. Because the fact is, your person knows they've let their health go. they're in conflict about it. They know what they need to be doing and they know they're not doing it and they don't feel good about it.

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And you simply asking the question, what happens based on this research that Dr. K was talking about is that it stirs up this really necessary internal tension that reveals for the person in your life, the disconnect between what they know to be true and what they want and their actions. And that conversation may last five minutes. It might be 20 minutes.

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or a string of breakups, or you're an empty nester, or something that's very common, if you're somebody that is now really focused on improving yourself, becoming happier, when you start to change, your relationship changes. And so as you're changing, if your partner's not changing, you're probably starting to question, is this the right person for me? Is this person supporting me?

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I like to have these conversations in a car because the person's trapped and you don't have to look at them. And you can just not get triggered by their emotions. And I find that, especially with my adult kids, even though we're talking about compatibility here, this is a technique you use with anybody. And so I do the prep work and then I get them in the car because there's no drinking.

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There's nowhere to go. You're both looking ahead. People tend to be able to talk more openly in that setting for some reason. And so it might last a long time. It might not. Good job on doing A. Now B, and you need to let them through. You got to back off. Back off. Let them. Let them sit on the couch. Let them eat potato chips. Let them not work on their resume. Let them be.

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Let them live their lives. Let them be an adult. Let them. You have to back off and observe their behavior. Why? Their behavior is the truth. You may care about this. They may not. You may be motivated about this. They are not. Their behavior tells you this. And I'm going to tell you a quick story because...

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I need you to understand the C part because the C part is anytime you see anything positive happen, you have to cheer or celebrate this person and you have to model the change. You can't expect somebody in your life to stop drinking while you're pouring a glass of wine at night. You cannot expect somebody in your life to suddenly eat healthy and start walking every day after dinner if you're not.

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You cannot expect somebody to go gluten-free or to address their allergies if you haven't done it yourself. And so C is model the change and make it look fun and easy. Not like rubbing it in, but just when you go out for a walk, go out for a walk. When you come back in, just be like, oh my gosh, it's so beautiful outside. I feel so much more focused.

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I'm going to go back upstairs and get my stuff done. You didn't ask them to go for a walk. You didn't pressure them. You demonstrated the change and you made it look fun and easy. Now, people naturally move towards things that are fun and easy. This is why you and I buy stuff that we don't need. You know, a sports figure is like, my golf game improved with this club.

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You're like, ooh, that looks fun and easy. I think I need that now. And so I'm gonna tell you a quick story. Let's say you're at work and every day at lunch, your colleague gets up, puts on their jacket and goes outside for a walk. And you're like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap and shoveling food in your mouth because you're addicted to being busy and you're tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.

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And you watch this happen every day for a couple of weeks.

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They never once ask you to go for a walk. Never. While you're like shoveling food in your mouth and work, work, work, work, work, work, work.

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How long do you think it would take For you one day to look up and see that it's a sunny day and think to yourself, huh, I think I'm going to go for a walk at lunch today.

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A couple weeks, maybe a month.

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Am I in the right relationship? Now that I'm an empty nester, now that I'm this, now that I'm that, this is normal. And so we're going to normalize this question that we all grapple with, which is, am I with the right person or the bigger one we don't talk about? Is there somebody better out there?

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If you watch somebody do this every day at work and they came back with a smile on their face and then they sat down with no drama and just kind of started tapping and they seemed happy. See, the research is very clear.

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This comes from neuroscientist, Dr. Sherritt, who teaches at King's College London and MIT, that your behavior influences other people, but other people have to think it's their idea in order to do it. See, when two or three weeks or a month goes by and all of a sudden you get up and you walk outside at lunch, you go, why do I not do this every day? This is amazing. You don't credit your colleague.

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You credit yourself for doing it. And this is critical for you to understand. This is neuroscience and basic wiring. You have to create the space and the conditions where your behavior influences somebody but doesn't pressure them. This issue is a standoff because you've been pressuring them. I want you to let them be themselves and focus on the let me part.

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Let me influence you by having the open-ended questions and asking and backing off and then changing and modeling the change. And when they suddenly get up and go for a walk or go for a run or the TV is off and they're in the kitchen working on their resume, don't be passive aggressive. See, doesn't that feel good? Like that feels like a shame. You're like, oh my gosh, your resume looks amazing.

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Or how is it outside? I think I might go for a walk. That looks like fun. Do you see the difference there? Because oftentimes when somebody finally does something, you swoop in and are like, see, I told you so. Wasn't that good? Now that makes somebody go, F you, I'm not doing it again because I'm not your child. But when you say, oh, that looks like a good idea. Let me try it.

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Now, all of a sudden, you're reinforcing the positive change. And here's the final thing. You got to give it three months because they may never change. So let's just take a few minutes and just allow what you're learning to sink into your mind, body, and spirit.

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And if somebody keeps coming to mind, please be generous and share this episode with them because there is zero doubt in my mind it could change the trajectory of their life. And don't go anywhere because we have so much more to talk about. And I will be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel.

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I hope that you had a chance to just really think about what we've been talking about here and unpacking together because this is really important. You deserve to be in a loving partnership and you can absolutely create it. And using what you're learning today, you will. So let's talk about if you've had this conversation,

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And so if you're grappling with this right now, or you're watching a friend, or you're watching one of your kids, or you're watching your parent, whether it's post-divorce or post-losing a spouse, step into the dating scene, you're like, oh, I don't know about that person for you. This is a conversation that is going to empower you. This is a conversation to share with the people that you love.

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and you've truly given them the three months, you've just backed off and you've watched your behavior and you're going to need the let them theory. You're going to have to keep going, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them to remind yourself that you got to back off and let me just focus on modeling the changes. Let me focus on observing their behavior.

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Let me focus on removing pressure and seeing if I can accept and love and support this person exactly as they are. If these three months go by and they don't change, they're not going to change. So you have to move to steps D and E. And D means you have to decide if this is a deal breaker. And E means you got to either end the relationship or end your complaining about it.

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So I know you're thinking, well, how do I know if it's a deal breaker?

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It's very simple. Can you stop complaining about it? If you can't stop complaining about it, here's what it tells me.

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This is an issue that matters to you. This is an issue that is not something you're willing to just compromise on.

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This is an issue where if this person continues to just let their health go, or they continue to refuse to go to therapy, or they continue to just yell at you or be passive aggressive with you or text you nonstop at work when you've said I can't, or text you when you're with your girlfriends, and you just are like, I don't want to be with somebody who acts like this.

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That's a deal breaker because you have to understand people only change when they feel like it. This person's behavior is demonstrated. They either don't feel like it, they don't want to, they're incapable of it. And so now it's on you. Can you marry, live with, and be with this person and be happy and love them as they are and not resent them and wish they would change for the rest of your life?

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That's what a deal breaker is.

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And that's not their responsibility. It's your responsibility to identify for yourself. And see, I think so many people are so scared to be single. You literally brush a deal breaker under the rug and you gaslight yourself into thinking someone's going to change. And they're not going to. It's not your job to change them.

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And the more you try to change them, the more tension and frustration there's going to be in your relationship. And that means E. If you can't end your complaining and you can't accept who this person is exactly as they are, then they're not your person. They may be a great person. They may be a good person, but they're not great or good for you. For most people, It's not a deal breaker.

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It's something you have to learn to accept and still learn how to love somebody. You got to let them. Because the more you let someone be themselves, the better your relationship gets. And you know this is true. Because... Do you like it when somebody tells you that you need to find a new job? Do you like it when somebody tells you you got to get control of this debt?

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Do you like it when somebody tells you that, you know, maybe you should go back to the gym or, you know, that kind of holds their mouth when you're like, I've gone up a couple sizes of pants. Like, are these pants too tight on me? And you're like, they kind of are, but I don't want to say anything. You know what it's like?

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to feel pressure and to feel judgment or to feel that sort of passive aggressive support. I'm just trying to support you. And what do you do? You push back.

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I'm here to tell you, you got to let other people live their lives. And you have to focus on the influence part.

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And using the ABC loop method, it reveals... what the other person cares about. It reveals what is a priority for this person. And that truth is now information that you consider when you come back to the question we're talking about today, which is, is this the right person for me? There's a really important stat that I want you to hear.

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And this statistic comes from decades of research done by doctors John and Julie Gottman. They're the world's most famous relationship researchers. They also happen to be married. Check this out. 69% of issues in any relationship are unresolvable. What does that mean? That means 69% of the things that couples fight about, you will never be able to come to an agreement on.

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So I think the best place to start is the moment in a relationship where you start to question, is this the right person for me? And the first thing I want to normalize is that is something that everyone feels at some point in their relationship.

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Things like you're being sloppy. Things like you talk too loud. For me and my husband, we constantly argue around the fact that my ADHD makes me a very messy person. I'm constantly running late. I drive Chris crazy in this regard. The thing that drives me crazy about my husband, he's a thinker. He's a slow processor. He tends to ask a lot of questions. It's quite annoying.

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These are things that are never going to change. If the things that are never going to change are part of that 80-20 rule and the things that drive you crazy are part of the 20% nice to have, like it'd be nice to have somebody that's on time. It'd be nice to have somebody that is a fast processor. Is that really the stuff that matters? Of course not. Of course not.

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And so it really helps you kind of put into context, oh, well, this makes a lot of sense. And then that brings me back to the thing I'm going to keep saying, which is, do you have somebody that when you raise an issue with them, they lean toward you and they want to work on it with you? Because 69% of the stuff that you guys argue about never going to go away. So can you actually talk about them?

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And can you accept the person? as they are, because working through these things is what makes it last as a couple. If you're gonna go the distance with somebody, you're gonna go through so many different iterations and chapters with this person. There were times in my marriage where Chris made more money. There are times where I made more money.

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There's times where we both made the same kind of amount of money. There's time where he made no money. There's time where I was unemployed. It was like passing a baton back and forth. And what makes your relationship compatible and what makes it work is the willingness to work on it and work through it together.

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on the 69% of things that are either not important in the long run or will never actually be resolved. Your ability to determine what's a deal breaker, what's not. What is deep values and dreams and goals and what's a nice to have. What is a phase and a chapter that we're going through that this person deserves my loyalty and support and compassion.

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And I'm going to do my part and I'm going to let them figure this out. And I'm going to focus on what I can do, which is create an environment that supports somebody's change. And the research is very clear. The environment that supports somebody's change is zero pressure to change and positive influence based on your behavior and your acceptance.

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Well, today, here's what we're going to do. I have dug into the research on relationships. I have also looked at my 30-year marriage. I've looked at the toxic dating patterns that I was engaged in before I met my husband. And I have three mistakes that I'm going to reveal to you today.

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And this is critical to understand because it seems counterintuitive because you think, well, I got to force this person. No, no, no, no. You got to actually step back and accept them because when they feel loved and accepted, they don't feel shamed by you and they'll feel more empowered to step toward you.

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And that's the kind of balance and dynamic that is present in a relationship where you're really with the right person. And the interesting thing about these kind of breakdowns and kind of wondering is, and I said this throughout this conversation today, is that these are opportunities to make your relationship stronger. Working through things is what creates an incredible relationship.

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And I know you want that. Who wants to just date a string of people and break up or get divorced or go through pain and heart? Nobody, you don't want that. I'm assuming you're with this person because you want... to be with this person and you want to make it work. And so if you want to make it work, then you got to follow and work with the laws of human behavior and science.

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I don't care if you've been married for 50 years, if you've just met and had a one night stand and now you think this is the love of your life, there will come a moment in time where you go, hmm, is this the person for me?

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And the let them theory is going to let you do it because that's the number one thing. No one's going to change when you're pressuring them. And you're not with the right person for you if you're constantly in your head thinking everything's wrong. And this is never going to feel good for either one of you until you learn to love them as they are. And you learn how to have these conversations.

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So let's talk about the situation where you're with somebody and it's like a deep issue. This isn't going away. You want kids, they don't. They want kids, you don't. I mean, this is something that is going to cause a lot of tension in your relationship and frustration and resentment.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so you got to determine for real where your partner stands, whether or not there is truly compromise or whether or not this is a deal breaker.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And so let's say you've been dating somebody for quite a while and you know that you want children, you know you want to get married, you know you want to build a life with this person, but they're kind of in that mode like, we'll see, kind of open to it, but they won't give you a definitive. And as the months and the years start to pile up and everything's okay, but you're starting to think,

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Where do we stand on this? What is going to happen? I have a friend who wasted a decade of her life in her 30s with somebody who strung her along on this topic only to eventually break up with her when she pushed the issue. And so you're going to use the ABC loop because you have to honor yourself and you have to honor your dreams and your goals and your values for yourself.

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And by the way, if you adamantly do not want to have children, and you are with somebody who does, and you think this is going to change, you're wrong. And so you need to be having this conversation to get very clear with your partner, because staying with somebody, when you've got a core issue that is looming in the background that you hope will just maybe change, it doesn't work for most people.

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And you owe it to yourself to not be in a relationship hoping it delivers, but rather create and choose a relationship where you are with somebody that truly wants to work on these things with you and wants the same important things as you do. And so you start with, again, the ABC loop. The first is A, apologize and ask. And you're going to ask open-ended questions.

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And one of the things that I am seeing over and over is this sense that there's so many options out there and the dating apps do this that you just wonder, is there someone better? And so I think it's very normal to have that, but that is very different than having this sense that something's off. Having this sense that this is a good person but is this a good person for me?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And so what you're going to do is you're going to apologize. Hey, I wanted to talk to you about this because I realize that I have been pressuring you And I'm sure it doesn't feel good. And I've gotten snarky and passive aggressive. And I know that when I keep texting you the shower announcements of my friend's baby showers, I would imagine that kind of feels like a slam.

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And so I wanted to apologize for pressuring you. But I have a couple questions I wanted to ask.

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How does it feel for you when I bring this up?

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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What are you thinking about the topic of whether or not you are open to having children or whether or not you don't? And asking the open-ended question, which is something you probably haven't done.

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A lot of us are like, right? And letting them, this is where the let them theory comes in. Let them say what they're going to say.

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When you ask the open-ended questions, and here's a good one. Have you ever thought about when you get to the end of your life, whether or not, like who is standing around you?

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Does not having kids there, do you ever consider what it would be like if you had kids and grandkids around you?

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And it doesn't matter based on the research what they say. Because the open-ended questions are meant to reveal tension inside them between what they're saying to you, which is I'm open to it, and what they may actually believe deep down, which is I don't want this at all. But they won't say that to you because they think you're going to drop it.

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Because here's the thing, if you've asked open-ended questions, if you've backed off, if you've given somebody the space to both know what you need and the space to change on their own terms and they don't change, they're not going to.

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And now you got to decide, this person as they are,

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whether they're out of shape, whether they drink too much, whether they come with a ton of financial debt like I did when Chris met me, whether they never want children.

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Can you choose this person as they are? Can you choose this relationship exactly as it is?

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Where they don't prioritize you. They're not that fun. They've gotten really boring. They're kind of negative. Can you choose this person exactly as they are and exactly as they are? We're not talking about the potential for all you fixers. Because if you can't, then you got two choices. You either need to end your complaining about it or you got to end the relationship.

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Because if you choose to stay with somebody who after you've had this ABC conversation, they exhibit no change in behavior, and you choose to stay with somebody like this, even though you don't want to be with somebody like this, that's on you. That's on you. And here's how you know. If you can't stop complaining about the person you're with, you're not with the right person.

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If you can't end the bitching, then you need to end the relationship because you're actually in a relationship with somebody that you are going to want to change for the rest of your life. And that is never going to make you happy. And it's going to make the other person miserable. And it will lead to a breakup. And here's the problem.

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Like my friend who wasted 10 years of her life chasing the potential of somebody, you're going to waste 10 years of yours chasing the potential of who this person could be instead of accepting the reality of who they actually are and choosing it powerfully or choosing to walk away because you know you deserve better. And this is one more thing I want to say about this.

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The reason why relationships are hard is because we're terrified of being single. And the thing about love that is incredible is you get to choose the love and the partnership that you deserve. And you also have to respect yourself enough and trust yourself enough and value who you are enough and the life that you're building to constantly remember it is a sacred invitation.

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to choose to build a world and a life with someone. That your life gets magnified when someone's in it, but it's not diminished when somebody isn't. And one of the things that I worry about is that we're all so scared to be alone. We're scared to be the single friend. We're scared to be alone again. We're scared to go through heartbreak.

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And that is a really important thing to think about because the decision of who you are going to have a long-term committed relationship with is one of the single most important decisions in your entire life. The person that you have a partnership with impacts your health. It impacts your happiness. It impacts your goals. It impacts the amount of stress that you have.

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We're scared to put ourselves out there, that we chase things that aren't meant for us. And we accept behavior and we accept situations with other people and relationships that are less than what we deserve. And it's really important to go into these conversations reminding yourself you deserve to be happy.

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And there are lots of people out there that you can make a beautiful relationship work with. And I think the number one thing that you need to be looking for is are you dealing with somebody who actually wants to grow with you? Are you with somebody who's kind to you? Are you with somebody who is loyal to their friends and family? Because that shows that they're going to be loyal to you.

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Are you with somebody that can listen to you? because you are going to have so many ups and downs in a successful relationship that when you're building from a foundation of fundamentally being with somebody who is choosing you back, who makes you a priority, who is kind to you, who is caring of you, who listens to you and wants to know how to do better, that's the baseline.

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And I just want to say something. This isn't easy, especially if you're with somebody who's a good person and you realize they're just not the right person for you. And this is definitely not easy if you're married or living together or you have children together or you just are in it and you have a house. Like unwinding a relationship is one of the most painful things in the world.

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And even when you have a situation where you both know it's just not working, even though you wish it would, the let them theory is not going to remove that pain. There's nothing about the decision to end something that is going to feel good, that's going to feel right, you're going to know deep down it is, And so the let them theory doesn't take that away.

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It just gives you the tools to dissipate the emotion that you feel and the heartache that you're going to feel and the grief that you're going to feel if you make the determination that this isn't the right relationship for you anymore.

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And that's an important thing to say because it is a mentally healthy response to ending a relationship, to feel heartbroken, to feel conflicted, to feel guilt, to feel grief, to feel a mix of emotions from love and appreciation to tremendous sadness, to fear, to anger, to loss, like all of it. It's like a tsunami. And the let them theory does not take that away.

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The let them theory helps you find the courage and the truth that needs to be said.

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And if that's what you're realizing from listening to this, I hope that you honor that in yourself. Because you're not just here on this planet to be somebody's partner.

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If you've been listening to this and you're like, there is no doubt in my mind this is over, and you've had the conversation, and you have backed off, and you've observed the behavior, and you know deep in your heart that this person and this relationship is no longer right for you, the let them theory is not going to make this easy. It doesn't erase the pain.

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And I once heard somebody say to me, you know, the secret to a happy marriage is marrying somebody who's a happy person. And That's very simple advice. But the truth is, if you start to feel unsatisfied in the relationship, it is natural to question the relationship.

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It doesn't erase how difficult it is to unwind a relationship. It doesn't erase the emotional reactions of the other person or how it may impact other people in your life. And here's the way that the let them theory will help you though. In life, the right decisions often feel very wrong in the moment.

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And the reason why they feel wrong is because the right decision for you will cause someone else to feel very upsetting emotions.

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And just because someone else is disappointed or someone else is heartbroken or you feel like a complete jerk or you're terrified to see this person's parents or you don't want to let the kids down or you're worried about what everybody's going to think or you're thinking now, oh my gosh, but we've been in this for six years or seven years and am I sure am I right? Am I sure?

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Fast forward to the end of your life.

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If nothing changes, Do you really want to spend the next seven decades feeling like you feel right now?

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Do you want to spend the next seven years feeling like you feel right now? Do you want to spend the next seven months feeling like you feel right now? Because what I know to be true and what you know to be true is this person is who they are. You have tried all the tools and this isn't changing in a way that is going to be a relationship that works for you.

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And making that call is one of the hardest and bravest and most courageous things that you could ever do. Because it means you are choosing the love you deserve. It means you are choosing to believe in yourself. It means you are choosing to step away from someone that you once loved for the chance to create an even greater love in the future.

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And the other thing is, Just consider the other person.

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Would you want someone to stay with you out of pity? Would you want someone to stay with you and just resent you for the rest of your life because you are who you are? Would you want someone else to slowly, quietly quit the relationship and waste another 10 years of your life because they didn't have the courage to tell you the truth?

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Of course not. You don't deserve that. And other people don't deserve that from you.

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Sometimes one of the most loving things that you can do is to say, I don't love you anymore.

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Because it's the truth.

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And if you are in a relationship that is grounded in commitment and kindness and respect and mutual admiration,

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That's what the other person deserves, is the truth.

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And if you're listening to this, I also want to remind you that if you haven't had the conversation, that's the truth they deserve. Use the tools, create the space for change to happen, determine whether or not this is an issue that actually deeply, deeply, deeply matters, or it's just in the 20% that doesn't,

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learn to accept the person that's in front of you instead of the fantasy relationship that you're in in your head. And I promise you, everything that you have learned is going to help you navigate this extremely normal and very common theme that is going to come up in every single relationship that you're in. Because human beings are designed to change.

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And I'm sure as you're listening, you're thinking, okay, Mel, well, how do I know when that questioning is just me being unrealistic and me being negative? And how do I know when the questioning is a real problem? Like we're constantly bickering. There's a lot of frustration. We're fighting over stuff all the time.

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And as you change and grow, your partner's going to change and grow. And sometimes that means it feels like you're no longer on the same page. But if you're with the right person and you use these tools and you start to embrace the laws of human nature, that people only change when they feel like it,

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that change needs to be their idea and acceptance and loving somebody as they are and letting them live their lives is what creates the best relationships in the world. You do that and you follow the tools you've learned and you watch how your partner responds. If they lean in and they're willing to work on it, telling you something, you got a relationship that works.

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And if you're listening and you're starting to feel fear because you're getting more and more in touch with your truth, that deep down you know this really isn't working, but you're feeling yourself hesitate or go, but, but, but, but, but, I want to speak to the fear that you're feeling.

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Because we're all so afraid of being alone or of disappointing somebody else or of just having to have a hard conversation that we prioritize something that's not working over the truth. And in a moment like this, fear can take over and what you know can be so much more tempting than thinking about the unknown. And what I want you to do is place your faith in your truth.

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That's where I want you to put all of your faith and belief is in what you know to be true. And here's the reason why. If the relationship is real, if it's the right relationship for you and the other person, if it's going to support you in having a meaningful and fulfilling life, the truth makes a real relationship stronger.

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If the relationship isn't the right relationship for you or for where you're going, I want you to fight for the truth. Because the truth can't kill anything that's real. But if the relationship isn't the right one for you, the truth is going to reveal that. And that's why I don't want you to fight for the relationship. I want you to fight for what you know to be true.

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And trust that the relationship reveals whether or not it's capable of aligning with you. And so you gotta double down on that deep knowing and seeking alignment and support from the person. Because what happens when you do that and you start to lean into the truth and you find the courage to share it and to wanna work on it, the other person's going to reveal what's true for them.

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Well, the truth is, if more than half the time you're frustrated or bickering, this is not the right relationship for you. Period. Because there's something off between the way that the two of you are interacting with each other. And the relationship should actually make you feel like more of yourself. A relationship that works for you should bring out the best in you.

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And the hard thing is, oftentimes, what's going to get revealed is that they're not going to choose you. And they're not going to choose the things that you want. And that's why I'm going to keep reminding you, the truth is you deserve to be happy. The truth is your needs are important. The truth is you deserve a partner that is going to respect you and be kind.

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And they deserve somebody like that too. If something feels off, trust that. Be willing to talk about it. Because the truth is the right person leans in and goes, well, then let's work on it. They care about you. And if you're afraid to tell the truth about what you feel or what feels off, that's a gigantic red flag that this is not a relationship where you can be yourself.

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This is not a relationship where you feel safe. It's a giant red flag for me that you're more concerned about being single or facing the unknown, which I get scary, really scary.

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But if the right love was just around the corner, how would you show up differently?

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Now notice I didn't say it was a different person. Maybe what is required in your relationship to truly take it to the next level is for one of you to be the one that shows up differently. for one of you to stand for something bigger than the dysfunction and the friction and the things that you're feeling.

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And if you're listening to me right now and you're the friend or you're the mom or dad or you're the sister or the brother and your loved one is constantly complaining to you about their relationship, send this to them. Because maybe they know the truth, they're just afraid and they don't have the tools to have the conversation and nobody's explained the science.

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Because I certainly didn't know that when I pressure someone to change, it keeps me stuck. I didn't know that the secret to relationships is letting people be who they are and learning how to accept and love them. I didn't know any of these tools that I'm sharing with you until I truly started researching them a couple of years ago.

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And I love these tools because they're free and they're simple and they work and they prioritize what's in your control, which is what's true for you and the love that you decide to choose and create for yourself. If you're listening and you have this pit in your stomach because you know that this is no longer the right relationship for you,

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You owe yourself the possibility of having the most amazing, loving, incredible relationship. And I want you to know that pit is a normal and it's actually an appropriate response to knowing that you're about to make a decision that is going to upset someone else. That's not a sign that you shouldn't do it.

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And if the relationship that you're in is bringing out the worst in you, it's making you insecure. It's making you question yourself. It's making you feel like you have to compromise your values. It's making you have to constantly explain yourself.

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It's a sign that you're making a really hard call and that you are aligning your life with what you know to be true. And you owe yourself that. And what I want you to know is that you will be okay. That pit in your stomach, actually, you know what it is? It's not an ending. It's a beginning. It's a beginning of you finding the clarity and the conviction to align your life with

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with what feels right for you. And I'm going to remind you, you deserve the love that truly makes you feel alive and supported and free. I can't wait to hear how you use this. I can't wait to see how many people that you send this to and how it empowers them to heal relationships and improve relationships, how it empowers them to make the tough call because we all need to do that in life.

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And one more thing I wanna tell you in case no one else tells you, I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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And one of the things that will create a better life, there's zero doubt in my mind, is you getting honest about what it really means to have a relationship that is mutual, that is loving, and that is with somebody that is on the same page, committed to the same things, and most importantly, willing to listen and lean in and work on it with you. You got that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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You got the formula for the happiest, amazing love story in the world. Alrighty. I'll see you in the next episode. Great note. Okay. He's like, I'm tired. The camera just broke up with us. Go ahead. Yes, Una, go for it. Sorry, guys. Come on. This is like reality show producing. Come on. Come on, out, out, out. Come on, buddy. Good boy. Good boy. Big dog. Okay, we're good. Does that... Good? Okay.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Is there anything that we've missed here, guys? I think this is good. Excellent.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Really good. So good, guys.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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You feel self-conscious around your friends because you kind of know deep down inside that you're not really your best self because of this person that you're with and that you're changing and you're not changing in good ways. And so this is a deeply personal question. And here's what I know. You know if you're not with the right person. You do.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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There's that famous saying, if you're confused in your relationship... Wait, what is it? Oh, yeah. This is gonna be so good, everybody. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

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I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Stitcher.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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First of all, thank you for sticking around for this amazing bonus segment. But before I jump into it, I want to give a huge shout out to Celebrity Cruises for sponsoring this. Did you know that with Celebrity Cruises, you can visit nearly 300 fantastic destinations around the world, all from the comfort of ships that have so many things to do that the ship's or destinations in their own right.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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I'm talking elevated guest rooms where comfort is everything, live entertainment you don't want to miss, top-notch food and drinks, and that's just on the ship. I mean, what could be better than soaking up the culture of Europe, or breathing in the cool, crisp air of the Alaskan wilderness, or tanning as you sail the clear blue water under the Caribbean sun? Well, I'll tell you what's better.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Doing all of that with someone you love. I want you to think about this. Think about how amazing it is to travel somewhere new with someone special, somebody that you deeply care about. When's the last time you guys even took a trip? without your kids. I mean, maybe instead of trying to force a date night in, what if you put something in the calendar for three to six months from now?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And I'm suggesting that you do that because of the research. Research has proven that just planning a trip or putting something into your calendar in the future can boost your happiness now. And that's even before you're on the cruise ship or you're on the mountaintop or you're lying on the beach.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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See, doing something fun, like planning a trip, it's the ticket to a richer and more meaningful relationship. And, you know, you may be sitting around like, okay, well, they need to plan it. Well, what about you? Instead of waiting for it to happen or waiting for the right time, do it now. Because when you decide to do something fun with someone you love, you know what you're doing?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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You're saying, you're important to me. Just planning something like that proves that spending time together, doing new things matters and it brings you together. And I know you know this. I know you know this. But I need to remind you of this because the stupid things... are what take up our time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And that means that we don't make time to experience the new things that could add depth to your connection and create new memories. And now you're sitting here with your friend Mel going, you're right, Mel. You're right, Mel. Because one of these days, you're going to be looking back on your life and what are you going to remember? You're going to remember these things that you planned.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Deep down, you know you're not with the right person. And I'm going to give you a couple things to consider so that you know that it's actually time to end something versus it's time to work on something. If you're in a relationship where you're not able to be yourself, you are in the wrong relationship. Because I'm going to tell you something. This is not going to get better.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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You're going to realize that the true foundation of your relationship were all of these memories that you made together. And that is fully within your power to create. So don't you dare finish listening to this and not put something in your calendar three to six months from now for you guys to go away. And I also want to thank Celebrity Cruises for sponsoring this special segment.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And I want you to imagine you and your partner, I mean, enjoying the cozy, intimate feel of a small ship that has everything you'd expect from something bigger. You and your partner taking in the beautiful ocean views, world-class entertainment, and all this amazing food with your favorite person. And you want to know the best part about going on a cruise? You don't have to do anything.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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These are three mistakes that people make that either have them stay with the wrong person or end it with the right person. And then I'm going to teach you this relationship assessment tool. It's called the ABC loop.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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You just plan the trip and pick the dates. They take care of everything. It's all done for you. You don't have to worry about the dinner reservations or the car rentals or the headaches of trying to get yourself from one place to the other. You can just have fun. And enjoy the person you love as you explore an amazing new place. That's what Celebrity Cruises is all about.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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A travel experience unlike any other. Learn more at CelebrityCruises.com. Visit Celebrity.com for details. Ships registry Malta and Ecuador.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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If the person that you're with makes you insecure or ignores you or they never want to do anything that you want to do or it's always about them and you're quietly griping to your therapist about it or your friends about it, but you're not able to talk to this person, this is going to be a relationship that over time makes you miserable, it makes you worse, and it's going to eventually end in a breakup.

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And what's going to be super hard about it is that you're going to waste months, years of your life trying to make something work that you probably knew six months ago just isn't working. And the first thing that I want you to do is ask yourself, is this relationship good for me? are you actually able to be yourself around this person? Do they bring out the best in you?

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Do you feel safe and supported and respected? Do you feel like a priority? Like they actually care about you and they have you in mind.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And these are important things to consider because, you know, I think in today's world, it's so easy to get caught up in, oh my God, I want the wedding in Lake Como and I want the gender reveal and I want the fantasy and, you know, I want the engagement proposal photos on all the things that you forget.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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The person that you choose to spend your life with is the single most important decision you're going to make. This isn't some joke. And I don't want you to get so wrapped up in the fear of being single and never finding the one that you compromise on the most important decision you're going to make, which is who are you going to create an amazing life with?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And that goes way beyond what they look like or how tall they are or what their current bank account is. If you really want to go the distance, you got to be willing to look deeper at what makes for a good relationship for you because you deserve to be with somebody who truly brings out the best in you. You deserve to be with somebody who makes you a priority.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And by the time you and I are done with our conversation today, you're either going to have the courage and the conviction to finally end something that you know in your gut is wrong for you, or you're going to realize, holy cow, I am with the right person. And now I know what I need to do to move forward and make it even better.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And when you start to question it, it's an opportunity for you to really examine, what do I need? What do I want to feel like? And is this person, when I talk to them about this, do they lean into me? Do they want to work on this together? Am I willing to make compromises with this person? Because that's another thing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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If you get to a point in a relationship where your arms are crossed and they're the problem and they're the problem and they're the problem, well, you're part of the problem too. Because you're probably not compromising. And so I love that you are willing to ask yourself this question, is this person a good fit for me?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Because too many times you're so worried about being single again, or you're worried that you're now in your 30s and you're gonna not find somebody in time, or you're worried that, oh my God, if I don't make this work, then I'm gonna get divorced or I'm gonna be broken up with again. You have to double down

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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on the belief that you deserve and will create an incredible love story if you're willing to be honest with yourself and if you're willing to have the hard conversations with somebody so you give both of you an opportunity to lean in and grow together. That's what this is about. So stop focusing on the timeline. Stop focusing on what your friends are doing.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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Stop focusing on your track record and focus on the fact that you do deserve love. And this conversation that's very difficult is one step forward in creating that love for yourself and being honest with yourself about the mistakes you may be making. I want to talk about the topic of compatibility because I believe that this is deeply misunderstood.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And this is where everybody gets themselves into trouble in their relationships. Compatibility means that you have attraction, you have the desire to make it work. And it also means that you want the same things. The attraction part's really easy, right? Because you know if you're attracted to somebody and you know if it's mutual. But here's the thing.

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It is extremely common to be attracted to someone and to have a certain level of commitment. Maybe you're exclusive or maybe you've been dating or living together, but you're not compatible.

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And what does that mean?

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When you're not compatible, it means you just don't quite fit. That as much as you may try, as much as you may be forcing it, as much as you may want it to work, it's just not working. There's something that's not right and you know it. It's harder than it needs to be. There's tension. You kind of dread seeing their name pop up on the phone. You know when something's not working.

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And when that happens, I want to take a giant highlighter. What you have here is compatibility and whether or not it's actually going to work. And here's the hardest thing. Sometimes you can be with somebody great and they're just not great for you. Sometimes you're with somebody and it's really good in the beginning, and then as you spend more and more time together, it's not good at all.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And this is when you start to question, am I with the right person? It's not like there's anything wrong, but deep down, you feel like there's something wrong. And this is super important for you to pay attention to, because if you feel like there's something off, then there is something off.

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5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”

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And the good news about feeling that there's something off is that if the thing that's off is something that your partner and you are willing to work on together, the thing that's off can actually make the relationship amazing because you work on it together and you grow together.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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One of the most important relationships in your life is the one that you have with your partner. I guarantee you there is so much more excitement waiting for you both. And I have something very simple and surprising that I want to share with you thanks to Celebrity Cruises because they've sponsored this awesome and amazing bonus segment at the end of the episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Any married couple will tell you, and I've been married for 28 years, there are a bazillion times in my relationship with Chris where things have felt off. And when things feel like they're not quite right, you want to have a partner that you lean toward each other, not that you lean away from each other. And so you can use these moments.

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You're like, huh, is this the right person for me to learn more about yourself, to learn more about your partner, and to help you determine whether or not this person is the right person for you and you're the right person for them. And if you're in a relationship right now and you know deep down that I wish this person treated me differently. I wish I was a priority.

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I wish that they would make more of an effort. I wish they didn't get drunk every night and then pass out next to me in bed and then pretend like it's no big deal in the morning. I wish they were more interested in my friends. If these are the kinds of things that are happening and you haven't had the conversation, then the problem in the relationship is you.

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Because you're not raising the issues that would make you feel seen and make you feel safe. And in raising the issues in your relationship, if there is no change, there's not going to be a change. If there is an inability to hear you, there will never be an ability to hear you. And you better find the exit and sprint forward. And so, first of all, if you're questioning, good.

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Let's use this as an opportunity and unpack how you're going to figure out, am I compatible? Am I not? Is this my person or is this not my person? And so first things first, good job. Good job for recognizing that something's off. Now what I want to tell you is that there's three major mistakes that everybody makes in this moment. And I don't want you to make these mistakes.

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Understanding This Will Change How You Experience Your Entire Life

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad that you're here today because today's conversation is going to fundamentally change the way that you think about spirituality and what it means at its core to live a deep and meaningful life. Our guest today is the world's leading expert on the neuroscientific benefits of spirituality.

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And is the source of life energy? Is that why this is all happening? That It's energetic waves. It's electromagnet. Like I'm going to come up with some big words that I don't, but you know what I mean? Like now my intellectual brain is trying to nail down and knock on wood. What actually is source?

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I don't know.

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Yes.

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I guess what I should ask you is what's the difference between being religious versus being somebody who's spiritual?

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And that when you understand what spirituality is and how you are hardwired for it, and that when you awaken this particular part of your brain, You unlock something extraordinary within you. You unlock resilience, clarity, connection to something deeper, and meaning. You tap into joy. And if you're already a spiritual person, today's conversation, it will make you go so much deeper.

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You keep saying the word awakened brain. And so I want to dig into this, but first I want to make sure that the person who's listening really grasps what you're saying, because I think this is a critical distinction. It's important because the word spirituality is thrown around all over the place.

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And I don't think until I really locked in and read your book and I'm sitting here hanging on to every one of your words that I actually now understand the term. Mm-hmm. And so whether you're atheist, whether you are a skeptic who wants to believe, whether you are somebody who's called yourself spiritual, or whether you have a faith tradition that you practice of a particular religion.

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Every single day. Every single day. There is no difference between In the innate wiring of every one of us and that we all have this capacity that we are designed for, for a spiritual life and an awakened brain. Precisely. What is an awakened brain?

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I'm wondering, why do you think there has been such a crisis in faith around the world because, you know, everywhere you look, as I was preparing to have this conversation with you, it seems like spirituality or people practicing a religion has been in decline around the globe and particularly here in the United States. I mean, is that true? And why is that such a bad thing?

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I read in the New York Times this weekend as I was preparing for this conversation, there was a big article actually about the fact that Americans have not found a replacement for religion. That in the 1990s, there was a massive exit from traditional faith religious practice. And people, I think, have been searching ever since for something.

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And one of the things that I was thinking a lot about is that You know, when you have a religious practice, so you have a place that you go and you are in community with other people, that practice in and of itself is giving you a number of things that every human being needs. Number one, you're in community. So you have this experience of being seen and feeling a sense of belonging to something.

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If you're not spiritual at all, you're very intellectual. I have a lot of people in my life like this. They're like, I don't know. Just trust me and listen, because you're going to find a way to start that is simple, easy, and make spirituality and this innate wiring in you work for you. So if you're feeling lost or stuck or hopeless or empty or just like, there must be something more.

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You have a guidance and belief system that hopefully is helpful to you to help you navigate life. And you have behaviors and ways of thinking that help you stay connected to the deeper forces, that help you reframe the challenges of life, that help remind you that you're not alone in your struggles, and that hopefully lift you up.

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Yes. And you have the ceremonies for the beginning of life. You have the ceremonies when somebody passes over. And so you're constantly in the wash of that river. And the forces of life that are undeniable. We all come in the same way. We all leave the same way. So if you don't feel at home in a house of worship, you have three choices. Where do you find it?

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Because I think that's the hardest part for me is where do I find it? I used to go to the church at Harvard when Peter Gomes was alive. Mm-hmm. And it felt like a home. Beautiful. So you did have it there. Oh, yes. Absolutely. The service, the community, the big baritone voice. It was open, affirming, welcoming. It was of the works and the spirit. It was the force. And I've never found it again.

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So that, which you discovered, is available to all of us.

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Well, that's the piece that I miss. I think the piece for me that is hard about the quest, and I know a lot of my friends... certainly feel the same way. So do my kids is this sense of, I don't know where to go for the community piece of it.

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Because if you're grappling with what you even believe, and you're not somebody that is really into doctrine, or you bristle when you see the complete disconnect between what's being said versus what the people who are saying it are actually doing in the world, and so there's zero integrity there, then... it's hard to find the community part of it because I do feel that it's a lonely thing

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It certainly can be.

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Dr. Miller, I am just so grateful that you're here. And this feels like the perfect time to take a pause, give our sponsors a chance to share some important words with you. And I also want to give you a chance to just reflect on all that you're learning so far, all that's opening up for you, and be generous with this.

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This episode has come to you at the exact moment that you need it. And I'm so glad you're here. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited for the conversation that we are going to have today. I have been anticipating this one for months. And I'm going to start by saying it's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together.

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Share Dr. Miller's wisdom with people in your life that you care about and that you love. There's no doubt in my mind that what we're learning today absolutely is transformative for each and every one of us. Don't go anywhere. Dr. Miller and I are gonna be waiting for you after a short break.

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Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are learning about the neuroscience and research surrounding the benefits of spirituality. Dr. Miller, I'm so excited about the prospect of living an inspired life and tapping into this innate spirituality within all of us.

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You know, something I was fascinated by in your book is that when you looked at brain scans of people who are experiencing something spiritual, that the scans all look the same, like different places on the globe, across genders, races, types of spiritual experiences. Can you tell us like what you actually saw when you look at brain scans and somebody's having a spiritual experience?

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The only difference is the words that you say and the beliefs that you have, which you were taught, versus the innate wiring, which activates during a spiritual experience, which is those moments when you are in dialogue and connected to the deeper forces of life.

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If an awakened brain means you're tapping into this capacity to be connected to the deeper nature of life. Yes. If you're not tapping into it, what is the state of your brain? Nah, prepared and ready to go.

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Got it. Okay, so what you're saying here, and you write about this in your best-selling book, The Awakened Brain. I'm on page 58. I want to read this to you because you're talking about this study. So you've just said, Dr. Lisa, it is a proven, researched, scientific, medical fact that every single one of us has the wiring for an awakened brain and a deeply spiritual existence.

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And so I'm reading right here, our spirituality is substantively, roughly two-thirds a factor of how we're raised, the company we keep, the things we do to build the muscle, but still a significant degree of our capacity to experience the sacred life. and transcendent, one third, is inscribed in our genetic code as innate as our eye color or fingerprints.

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And for a long time, you're right, that spirituality had just been seen in the eyes of clinical science as synonymous with religion. It's like an understood belief, a set of views, a choice, perhaps a crutch to rely on in hard times, not as an aspect of human experience. that might be core to our innate being.

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And the study that you're talking about, Dr. Kendler's study, was the first time that the scientific community had published research exploring the possibility that there might be a genetic capacity within us for spiritual experience. This is the part that I love. This new research raised the possibility that just as we are cognitive, physical, and emotional beings, We are also spiritual beings.

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In other words, it's possible that we are built to be spiritual and that spirituality might be a fundamental and necessary part of our human inheritance that contributes to our mental health. This groundbreaking study suggests that spirituality isn't just a belief. but something each of us is born with and the capacity to experience.

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I think today we are both going to feel honored that we got to share this experience together. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm glad you're here, and I know by the time you're done listening, you are going to be so glad you took the time to listen to this today.

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In fact, you say the ability to be spiritual, which is to be connected to and in dialogue with the deeper nature and forces of life is our birthright. Yes.

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For somebody that does that meditation and you can visualize the table, you start to drop in the people, right? That you said, seat people at the table. Who truly have your best interest in mind. Who truly have your best interest in mind. And then you ask the question, do they love you?

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For somebody who immediately starts to put up resistance or go, oh, this is so cheesy or for crying out loud. Here we go with the thing. What is happening in their brain?

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For somebody who feels alone, how do you tap into this innate wiring so that you can feel held by that force? And I love the word you used, river, this sort of current of life, the nature of life. How can you tap into that? Because that's basically what you're talking about.

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Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You're the kind of person who values a meaningful life. You value connection. You want to feel fulfilled in how you're living your life, and you're looking for inspiration on how you can do that, how you can bring more meaning into your day-to-day life.

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Dr. Lisa, what are some of your favorite simple ways to introduce a spiritual practice into your life. Yes. And I'm looking for things that might be surprising to someone, that that is in fact something that can help you awaken your brain and connect to the deeper forces of life, that it actually is spirituality. You've mentioned taking a walk. Can you give us a list of some of your favorites?

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What's another way you can practice spirituality and awaken the brain?

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And I also want to point out that if you're listening right now because someone in your life shared this conversation with you, that is so beautiful because it means that you have people in your life that care enough about you and they listen to this and they're like, I think you should listen to this because you deserve to have more joy and peace and meaning in your life.

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Dr. Miller, I could listen to you all day long. I just love what you're teaching us. So thank you again for being here. I want to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors. And I also want to give you a chance to truly share this conversation with people that you care about.

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because every single one of us needs to understand the power of tapping into spirituality within ourselves in our day-to-day life. And don't go anywhere because Dr. Miller and I are gonna be waiting for you after a short break, so stay with us.

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Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are learning about the research connected to spirituality and living a more inspired, happier, and more healthy life. So Dr. Miller, you know, one of the things that you write about in The Awakened Brain is that you say, spirituality, it's not a belief.

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And I think that's, for me, I was raised in the faith tradition of the Methodist Church. Mm-hmm. But for me, it just started to feel more doctrine and less of the spirit and the current.

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Yes. And so I think a lot of us, or I'll speak for myself personally, get hung up on the belief system versus the feel of it. And you write in the awakened brain, and as you're unpacking the science of spirituality, that it isn't a belief. that you call it a perception. Can you explain what that means?

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And this conversation might help you tap into it because that's what this conversation is all about. Our guest today is the, as in capital T-H-E, world's leading researcher on the intersection of spirituality, psychology, and mental health. Dr. Lisa Miller is a graduate of Yale and the University of Pennsylvania, where she earned her PhD in psychology. Thank you so much for having me.

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Okay. I need to expand on this because you wrote about this in your bestselling book, The Awakened Brain. I mean, this is where I took out the highlighter and was like, wait, what? And this is on page 102. And I really want you to unpack this for us. You basically had this kind of aha moment as you're getting your PhD where you're like, okay, wait a minute.

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Psychology talks about human beings as this closed loop and that, you know, the assumption at the time is that your brain creates thoughts, that all meaning is interpretation, and

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and that we can feel better by rearranging our thoughts, which I talk about a lot in conversations on this podcast with world-renowned experts in terms of your mindset and how you think about things and reframing things from the positive to the negative and not being so pessimistic, but being more optimistic, right?

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And that by disputing negative thoughts or thoughts that make us unhappy and replacing depressing thoughts with a new framework that helps you tell a brighter story, that that's sort of the thrust of psychology and reframing. To feel good. Yes. And then you write, but what if the brain didn't create thoughts so much as receive them? What if our brains were less like idea generators?

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and more like an antenna or docking station for receiving a larger consciousness? What if to feel better is actually to detect and be in alignment with that consciousness? And what if emotions direct us into the world as it really is?

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And you were discovering the science of synchronicity, that feeling better isn't just a matter of creating new thoughts, of replacing unhappy ones with happier ones. It's also about noticing and aligning ourselves with whatever life is showing us. There's never a guarantee that we're going to get what we want or what we thought we wanted.

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when we become spiritually aware, it's a sign that despite the uncertainty, we are aligned with the force of life. So when you had that aha moment, is that when you're like, wait a minute, we're thinking about the brain and the way we live life and the way we think about thoughts and emotions and what's possible the wrong way?

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What does it mean to be in alignment with the forces of life?

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What immediately came to mind as you were talking about this glorious vision of just, it's like, let go of the oars and stop paddling against the current and fighting so hard to get God knows where. And this liberating feeling of trust that when you let go of the resistance and the grinding and the kind of day-to-day crap that we're doing every day,

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It just felt so much easier to drop into the current and trust, as hard as that can be, what am I trusting? Am I trusting that I'm going to be okay? Am I trusting that the current's taking me where I'm meant to go? Am I trusting that everything's happening for a reason? What are we doing when you let go? Because the need for control is like, no, I'm going to keep going at it.

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What do you mean, Dr. Lisa, I don't know what I want? Like, it's all based on the past. I'm supposed to just go with the flow and trust that life is guiding me?

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This is called the road of life.

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She is also the editor of the Oxford University Press Handbook of Psychology and Spirituality and a two-time president of the American Psychological Association Society for Psychology and Spirituality.

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Dr. Miller's innovative research has been published in more than 100 peer-reviewed articles in leading journals, including Cerebral Cortex, the American Journal of Psychiatry, and the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

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What's wild about that is that the ultimate question is, Have you always been living a spiritual life? You just weren't in dialogue with it.

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You know, in your book, you share so many amazing stories of how spirituality can really save your life in many cases. Do you have a favorite story? Is there one that you could share with us today?

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Her groundbreaking research has found that being spiritual, whatever that means to you, even if right now it means nothing, Her research proves that being spiritual changes your brain for the better, and it can protect you from and help you overcome hopelessness, depression, addiction, anxiety, and other mental health conditions.

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For decades, Dr. Miller has been looking at brain scans of people who are experiencing spiritual moments and seeing exactly what that looks like biologically and physiologically in the brain. Her research has shown that spirituality creates changes in your brain that protect against depression, substance abuse, anxiety, and other mental illnesses.

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She is also the New York Times bestselling author of multiple books, including The Awakened Brain, The New Science of Spirituality, and Our Quest for an Inspired Life. And I'll tell you what, Living an inspired life, doesn't that sound good? It sounds pretty good to me too. And Dr. Lisa Miller is here to help walk us step-by-step through how we can do exactly that.

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What's interesting is I've always felt really guilty because we did not bring up our kids in a traditional faith religious practice. And so I've always felt like, okay, my kids missed out on something. They don't have a foundation for belief. But as you were going through those four things, I was like, check, check, check, check. Fantastic.

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I mean, I don't, I mean, I guess I have to take a step back and say, I hope it's fantastic. And what I'm getting from your work is that my spiritual journey is my spiritual journey.

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And my children's spiritual journey is their spiritual journey.

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Is it true that young people are far less, well, I got to adjust now based on what I'm learning. Everybody is a spiritual being. But is it true that young people today are far less awakened and connected to the deeper forces in life?

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So please help me welcome her to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Lisa Miller. I am so excited for this conversation. We haven't even had it yet, and I can already feel the hair on my arms lifting up. I can feel the energy in this room swirling around us, and I am just so grateful that you're here.

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I think it's more than Gen Z. I really do. I feel like we're living in a moment because we see it with our global audience. And you may be listening to Dr. and Lisa and I are watching us on YouTube from somewhere halfway around the world. But it is very clear to me that the level of stress and overwhelm and fear and isolation that people feel is not how we are supposed to feel.

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That the headlines that we're seeing, the greediness and the power grab and the othering of people and opponents and turning everybody else into the problem, that is not how we are meant to be.

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You know, we have to, because you write in The Awakened Brain, this is on page four, we live in an age of unprecedented mental anguish. Depression, anxiety, and substance abuse have reached epidemic proportions globally.

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In 2017, 66.6 million Americans, more than half of the respondents on the National Survey on Drug Use and Health reported binge drinking within the past month, and 20 million meet the criteria for a substance use disorder. 31% of American adults will develop a full-blown anxiety disorder at some point in their lives, and 19% in any given year.

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The World Health Organization reports that 264 million people on the planet are depressed. Depression is the third most costly disability worldwide. Each year, 17 million American adults are depressed. Over 16% of youth and late adolescent currently face depression.

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And the impact of depression on suicide accounts for the second leading cause of death in adolescents rivaled only by death by auto accident. And I would imagine that those statistics in the last eight years have gotten horrifically worse. Much worse. You say that the anecdotes is spirituality.

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Let me ask you about depression and mental health issues and the amount of anguish and struggle that people are experiencing right now. Because in your book on page 153, I'm going to read this to you. You say, depression and spirituality appear to be two sides of the same coin, vastly different experiences that in fact share some significant physiology.

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I had long wondered from an epidemiological and clinical perspective is some types of depression might be a symptom of a person's craving for spirituality and a call for the spiritual self to awaken. Dr. Lisa, can you talk about the research and the science that explains the connection between spirituality and depression in particular?

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Thank you. Let's start by having you speak directly to the person who's with us right now. And they don't have any time, but they have found the time and made the time to be here with us. Could you tell them what they might experience in their life that could be different if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us and teach us today?

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But I thought it was really compelling in your book and reading about the science of spirituality that two-thirds of it is actually addressed by spirituality. And when you look at the research that's recently been done about people that have a religious practice, is what the research was around, that they found over and over again that

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that people who had a religious practice were happier, tended to be healthier, tended to have less rates of depression and anxiety than people who didn't.

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You know, you've talked a lot in your book, The Awakened Brain, how... Your innate spiritual nature vibrates at the frequency of the Earth's core. What does that mean?

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And that the spiritual awareness is there to help us move through those stages of life where life is hard.

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That is such an encouraging thing to believe.

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If the person is listening right now, because I know that this is going to be one of those conversations that people are sharing with so many people in their lives. This might be someone who is listening and spending time with us right now. And it's the first time they've really considered this, even though I agree with you. I agree with you that we are wired this way.

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And if we are wired this way, I do think that everybody has an experience in their life where they feel called to want something deeper. Yes. You know, you want a deeper sense of purpose and meaning in your life. Yes. That that is this quest that we're on and that we're all, on it, whether we're present to it or not.

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But if somebody is listening and they're like, I want to feel exactly, but I don't even know what she's talking, like, how would you start? I guess you already have if you've listened to this, this far.

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If the person listening takes just one action out of everything that you have poured into us, proven, taught, and awakened in us, what is the most important thing for them to do?

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And is that true regardless of where you are on sort of that scale of spirituality from, I don't believe in anything, or I used to but I don't anymore, to somebody who wants to but is skeptical, to somebody who considers himself spiritual but not religious, to somebody who has a devout religious practice.

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Dr. Lisa Miller, what are your parting words?

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Oh, that is so good. That is so good. Oh my God. I hope that too. I thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you for being here. Thank you for inviting us to really lean in and be curious and embrace what you're teaching. I am so excited to see how this conversation sends ripples throughout the world, reaching people that you and I may never meet, but we already know.

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Thank you. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time and making the time to listen to something that will absolutely change your life. And what an extraordinary gift it is to have an invitation and a roadmap to be able to awaken your brain and tap into the the forces of life and nature and existence and why you're here. I am so excited for you. I can't wait to hear what happens.

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I'm excited for the people that you share this with, but mostly I'm just grateful that you took the time to be curious about this and to really take this invitation on. in case no one else tells you, I'm going to tell you that I love you. And I love you for listening to this. I love you for being here. I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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And boy, I'm convinced that tapping into this innate spirituality is the way to do it. Alrighty. I'll talk to you in a few days. I'll see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you play. I'll see you there. Are we ready to roll? Magnificent. Okay. All right. We're ready. We are ready. Oh my God. You're the best. Thank you.

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No, I'm just kidding. Amazing. All right, Trace, what's next? Did we get it? Yeah. So Dr. Miller, I, so Dr. Miller, the next thing I wanted to ask you, So, Dr. Miller, my next question is, oh, wait, you don't want me to do that? Okay. Great. Okay. Great. Great. Okay. Wow. Holy shit, woman. Thank you. Thank you, Mel. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.

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This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.

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I'll see you in the next episode.

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Dr. Lisa, what do you mean by that?

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See, you and I are living in a time when believing in something beyond yourself can feel impossible. Right now more than ever, you may be feeling uncertain, afraid, anxious, and maybe even pessimistic about the future. I am so grateful to have the conversation today because it will raise the stakes on life. It'll open your mind to possibilities that you may have never considered before.

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So how did you experience that? Well, what was interesting for me personally is I immediately dropped in. Like I could see the table. I started to slot people immediately. You were actually there. Thank you. My husband was there. My son was there. My mom was there. Ann Davin, my therapist, was there. And I could easily answer the question, do you love me?

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Because what had dropped into consciousness in the visualization were those people.

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When you asked me to visualize my higher self and you asked me to ask my higher self if they loved me, I immediately said yes. And I reflected, though, on the fact that if I had done that visualization 10 years ago, I probably would have said no.

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Because I would have had judgment over who I was, where I was in life, things I've done in my past. And so I kind of had this moment where I was thinking about somebody who might be listening who can't access the I love you from their higher self or who, when you said higher self, immediately thought, well, what is that? I don't even know what that is.

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And then when you asked us to call in the higher power, whatever that means for us, I have all kinds of things that came to mind, images and symbols and things that have deep spiritual meaning in my life that connect me to something bigger than myself and to a higher purpose. But after I asked that for myself, I wondered for somebody who doesn't consider themselves spiritual.

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I wondered if they saw anything. So for you, the third chair, the higher power, who or what came? What came for me? Well, the first thing that dropped in was an owl.

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And the next thing that dropped in was the view from where we live in Vermont, which is a very grounding place that I go visually and physically to just feel connected to something bigger. This is very funny, but I'm laughing because it's kind of a cheesy image, but I have this visual of the Harry Potter mythical animal Buckbeak.

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And Buckbeak is this image that has come to me in meditations that is a very protective force that circles above and really is looking out and it represents safety. And then the other thing that came as a visual is on the cover of the Let Them Theory book, there are all these little raised dots that you can feel that are gold. And they represent kind of beams of consciousness.

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that are going out into the world, because the cover is a lot like a burst. And so I think about everything I do, how I show up every day and the energy I bring to every episode that I put out, to every hug that I give, to the way that I move through life as individual little points of light that I am sending out. But I also see those dots as the same thing coming back to me.

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And so those were the things that came as an image to me when you said, what is the higher consciousness or power for you?

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But after listening, you will know deep in your heart it is true. because our guest today is going to prove to you, using science, that every single person on this planet is hardwired for spirituality. She will also explain the enormous difference between religion and spirituality. They're two different things.

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So spirituality is three things. I just want to make sure I get this. But number one, that there is a deeper nature of life and the experience of living it that is available to you and you are physically wired to be able to tap into it. That's number one.

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You're physically wired to tap into the deeper nature of life. Number two, it is real.

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It is not a belief. It is something deeper that you know and feel. Is that true? And alive and working.

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What does in dialogue with the deeper forces of life mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You know, today I wanted to talk to you about six subtle ways that you're being disrespected right now. And this is such an important topic because I'm sure you felt it. there's tension in the air, right? Everywhere you go.

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It means that the person doesn't care to hear what you have to say. And that's a form of disrespect. And there's some really interesting research around this because when it happens, you're kind of like, did they not hear me talking? And you kind of feel a little shut down. Well, here's what we're going to do instead.

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And more importantly, we're not only gonna highlight these six subtle ways, I'm gonna give you the research pack methods and tools to call it out, to diffuse it, to protect your time, to protect your energy, because while you may be feeling it, you don't have to live like this because yeah, people's fuses are short right now.

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So if somebody starts talking over you, whether you're sitting at a meeting at work, the advice is going to be exactly the same. This comes from research from Harvard Business Review. Really interesting article that was written by Harrison Monarth. And what you're going to do if somebody starts talking over you, you're in a meeting, you're talking, all of a sudden John starts talking over you.

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First things first, keep talking. Just keep talking. And a real power move is, and you can hear me doing it now, slow down. So as you're talking, slow down. And the second thing that you're going to do, and this comes from this article that Harrison Monarth, a New York Times bestselling author and coach who's quoted in this Harvard Business Review article says, use their name.

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So let me give you an example. Mike, I'm going to finish my point. This is an important topic and I just wanted to make sure that everyone's informed and I'll be glad to get your feedback, Mike, after I've shared my perspective, but I'd like to make sure you actually hear my perspective first. Boom. Holy cow. You know what happens when you do that?

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Nobody knows what to say because you didn't stop talking and And if the person keeps talking you over, mom, I'm going to finish my point. You know, I'll be glad to hear your feedback, mom, after I've shared my perspective, but I'd actually like to make sure you hear my perspective first. And then mom, like, I'd love to hear yours. Whoa. I mean, that's pretty amazing, isn't it?

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You don't have to stop talking. You don't have to give in. You had the floor. Don't let your brothers and your sisters or some colleague talk over you. And then when you're done talking, here's the final thing you do. You know, mom, I know you had some thoughts earlier. What would you like to share, mom? Or, you know, Mike, I know you were trying to insert your ideas earlier.

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I would love to hear what you have to say now, Mike. Talk about just a confident and calm and emotionally mature response to because I'm going to say it again. If somebody is chronically talking over you, whether it's your family or your friends or someone at work, they have actually no interest in listening to what you have to say. That's disrespectful.

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And if somebody doesn't respect what you have to say, stop giving them power. You need to respect what you have to say enough to keep on talking. That's why you keep going. And using their name stops them. Mike, Mom, dad, hey, everyone, I'd be happy to hear what you have to say when I'm done sharing what I'd like to say. That commands the room.

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And it does feel like the world is at a simmer and it's ready to boil and everybody is stressed out. But here's what I want you to know. You don't have to go through your day-to-day life feeling like you're being disrespected because the way people treat you, that's a reflection of them. But what you allow, that's on you.

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You know what I love about this strategy is that you're holding your power. See, respect starts with you. And when you use this strategy that you just keep talking, and if the person doesn't shut up as you are slowly talking,

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Because what's going to happen when two people are talking, whether you're at a dinner table or you're out at a restaurant or you're sitting at a meeting at work, is everybody else starts to get uncomfortable because they're not quite sure who to listen to. So they're going to start looking around. And the person that interrupted you is going to start talking louder.

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But as you just quietly keep talking and you slow down, And then at some point, you're going to start to feel a little annoyed that the other person is starting to talk louder. Then you drop in the name, Mike, Mom, and that gets their attention. And then you redirect. Be happy to hear your thoughts, but this is an important thing I wanted to share.

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And before you share your reaction, I'd actually like you to hear what I want to say. Now you're respecting yourself. And that's the cue to everybody else to respect what you have to say. And then you do the superpower move by going, okay, so Mike, what did you want to say about that? Or, okay, so mom, what was your opinion about what we should all do for dad's birthday?

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And now you're not just respecting what you have to say, but you're also acting with a level of maturity and you're inviting people to say what they need to say. I just absolutely love this. And you can practice this. And the more you practice this, the better you're going to get. But just keep talking, then say their name.

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And then when you're done talking, boom, you just ask them what they wanted to say. And that's a way you show your self-respect and you shut down any disrespect. Now let's talk about the second way that people subtly disrespect you. And that's by dismissing your feelings. And this is one of those things that can happen so quickly. You're like, wait, what just happened?

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Where they're like, you know, you don't need to be so sensitive. I didn't mean it that way. Like, why do you have to get so worked up? You know, you always get upset. Like people dismissing your feelings or your reaction. And if somebody questions how you feel, it means they don't care how you feel. That's why dismissing your feelings is a form of disrespect.

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Because if they're gonna question you and be like, you know, you don't need to get that upset, and they're gonna question your response, then they clearly don't care how you feel. They don't care how their behavior impacts you. And so here are some things that you can do because the truth is your feelings do matter.

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And while somebody may be doing something and they didn't intend to hurt your feelings, it's not about what they intended. If somebody truly cares about you, they're gonna care about the impact that their behavior had on you. Do you see the difference? And for me, this is an area where I feel like as a parent in particular, I've been kind of like the Bigfoot stepping on people's feelings.

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I didn't... I didn't intend to hurt anybody's feelings. I didn't intend to invalidate people's feelings. But in my desire to want somebody to feel better, I'm like, oh, it's not going to be that bad. You're going to be okay. I'm actually dismissing how somebody feels. And so this is an area where I've done a lot of work.

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And today, you're going to learn these six subtle ways that people are disrespecting you, and more importantly, exactly what to do about it. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. First of all, I am so excited you're here. I am fired up about what we're gonna talk about today. It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

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where I'm trying not to be disrespectful of how people feel or how my behavior might've impacted them or how my desire for somebody to wanna feel better actually dismisses their feelings. Like I'm not giving them the space to feel how they feel. And so again, the reason why this is disrespectful is because if someone questions how you feel, if somebody dismisses how you feel,

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If somebody is trying to like fast forward you through your feelings, it means they don't really care how you feel. And that's so important because you need to care about how you feel. And there's some really important research for why this matters, because I think it's easy to tell yourself you're too sensitive.

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It's easy for you to turn this back on yourself and blame yourself for the kind of reactions you have. Like, we're all so scared about getting emotional. I think a large reason why is many of us had a childhood where you were constantly invalidated and your feelings were dismissed. Don't cry. It's not that big of a deal. I never said that.

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All that kind of stuff that teaches you it's just not safe for you to have feelings. And so if this is happening to you in your relationship, at work, in your friendships, as an adult, you have to start to care how you feel. Because when people question it or they brush it aside, it's a sign that they don't really care.

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And they don't have the capacity to give you the space to feel what you feel, but you got to give yourself the space. It starts with you. And so I love some of the research here because it lifts up this topic in terms of its level of importance.

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And this one's so subtle that I just want to call out some of the phrases that are a sign that somebody is dismissing your feelings and they're disrespecting you. So if you've ever had somebody say to you, you're so sensitive or you're overreacting. I mean, this is not a big deal. Why is this such a big deal? Or why does this have to cause such a problem? Why is everything with you an issue?

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Or you think this is bad? Like people have bigger problems than this. I don't know why you're upset about this. When somebody says that to you, it means they actually don't care how you feel. You're an inconvenience and your feelings are now a bother to them and they don't want to have to deal with it. And so this is a big deal. And let me tell you why.

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There was a study done by Gregory Wachowski at Walden University. This is what's called emotional invalidation. And the research is very clear on this. When your emotions are brushed aside, You're overreacting. This isn't a big deal. It doesn't just sting in the moment. It can have lasting effects. Constantly facing this kind of emotional invalidation, here's what it does.

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It leads to increased stress, anxiety, even depression. And it also chips away at your confidence and your ability to handle life's ups and downs, and it can make challenges feel even more overwhelming. Why? Well, I'll tell you why. Because if you've got somebody in your life that's constantly going, why is this such a big deal? Like you're overreacting. Why are you so sensitive about everything?

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I never meant it that way. Why do you have to get so upset about everything? When that constantly happens to you, you then start to question whether or not your feelings are valid. So first you have somebody invalidating you because they don't want to deal with your emotions. And now you start to wonder, am I the problem? Am I too sensitive? Maybe I shouldn't say anything.

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So you start to shut down your emotions. And what I want you to do is the exact opposite. I want you to validate your emotions. So the next time that somebody does this to you, you're feeling something, you're upset about something, something's bothering you, you're working through something, and somebody has the disrespectful approach of going, why is this such a big deal?

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Why are you so sensitive? You are going to validate your own emotions. I'm gonna give you two sentences that I love. These come from my buddy, Jefferson Fisher. He's a best-selling author. He is an expert at handling difficult people. He's also a trial lawyer. Here's what he recommends you do when somebody dismisses your feelings and disrespects you.

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You validate your feelings by saying this, I get to decide. I feel how I feel. And the way that I like to say, let me decide how I feel. So the next time somebody says, you're too sensitive, I feel how I feel. Why are you overreacting? Let me decide how I'm going to react to this. Isn't that powerful?

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Instead of waiting for somebody else to give your emotions space and validate them, let me validate them for myself. Let me decide how I feel. It's so empowering. And I'm gonna say something as a parent, this is something that I'm working on because I find it very difficult when one of my kids is struggling with something and they're upset about something.

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And if you're a new listener, I wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. So glad you're here. And because you made the time, to hit play and listen to this particular episode, I know you're the kind of person who values your time. And your time and energy is the single most important resource that you have.

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I just wanna do everything in my power to make it go away. And I can see, especially as I've been thinking about this conversation we're going to have today, that there's probably a lot of times where my kids have gotten worked up about something, and now I know, they decide how they feel. They get to feel how they feel.

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And my job is not to call them sensitive or not to tell them it's going to be okay or not to try to rush them through anything and invalidate where they're at. Let me just give them space to feel how they feel. instead of labeling it, which is a form of disrespect. I can see this is very difficult for you. What can I do to support you? I can see that you're upset by this. How can I help?

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I can see that what I said really hurts your feelings. I apologize. I did not mean to hurt your feelings, but I can see how my words impacted you and I am sorry. I'll do better.

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What I love about this is that whether you're the one that tends to step on people's feelings because you don't like it when people are emotional and it gets you upset when people are emotional and when people are anxious, you get anxious. Understood. That's a normal thing to feel. And using these tools, we can recognize when we're the ones, oh, you're being too sensitive. I never said that.

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Stop yourself from saying it. Let them feel how they feel. and let me be more respectful and acknowledge their feelings, give them the space to feel it, and then ask how I can be supportive. That's how you can use this tool to not be disrespectful. And it's also how you can use this tool when it's happening to you to validate your own emotions and say, I get to feel how I feel.

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I have a lot of big feelings about this topic and I cannot wait to jump into the third subtle way that people are disrespecting you. You're gonna love this. You're gonna be like, oh my God, oh my God, it's so true, Mel. So don't go anywhere. We're gonna take a real short break.

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Please share this with people that you care about because we all need to learn how to respect ourselves more and to call this kind of behavior out. And we're gonna do that when we return with the third subtle way that people are disrespecting you. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are unpacking six subtle ways that people are disrespecting you.

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Now we've already talked about how people talk over you and what to do about it, how they dismiss your feelings. And the third subtle way that people are disrespecting you is by always being late. And this topic, always being late, gives me some big feelings and oh gosh, as we jump into it, because I have been guilty of this for a large part of my life.

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And so I am going to unpack this one, both as somebody who sees it as a form of disrespect and somebody who is working on this so that I'm not disrespecting other people. Because here's the truth. Someone who's never on time doesn't value your time. And see, if they don't value your time, then whose job is it to value your time? It's yours.

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I mean, what you pour your energy into, how you spend your time, it determines what your life feels like. And today, you and I are gonna talk about six subtle ways that people are draining your energy, wasting your time. These are six subtle ways that you're being disrespected.

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Like you can't expect other people to respect your time if you don't protect your time and you don't value it yourself. And here's the thing that I want you to understand. As somebody who used to chronically be late I never thought about this from the standpoint of how my lateness is a sign that I don't value someone else's time.

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I was always constantly making myself wrong for being late, that I clearly don't value my own time because I'm not respecting it. And a lot of people who run late are so caught up in their own dysfunction that they don't even think about the impact of that their lateness has on other people. I mean, you've experienced it, right? Somebody breezes in 10, 15 minutes late.

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It's like a kind of windstorm entering the room or pig pen from the Peanuts cartoon with just like a dust storm around them. And then there's always this like three minute explanation about traffic or this or that or the other thing. And now they're disrespecting your time even more because they're taking up more time to explain exactly why they're late.

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And when you take a minute and you really think about this, but you have a meeting or you said you would meet a certain place and you're now waiting there and you've shown up on time. You valued your time. You valued the other person's time. And the fact that the person isn't there is disrespectful. And so there's two ways that I wanna unpack this, okay?

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Because you may be listening and thinking, oh my gosh, I'm the one that's late. And I'm always texting on my way and you haven't left the house yet, or I'll be there in five minutes and it's actually gonna be 17. So let's talk about it if you're that person, like I used to be that person chronically.

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If you're waking up and going, oh gosh, I've never thought about this as a way where I'm disrespecting other people. I've always just thought about this as me just being a mess and not being punctual and always running late. When you really start to invert this about not wasting other people's time and not being disrespectful, it does change the motivation for why it matters to be on time.

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Because if you're not going to do it for you, thinking about the fact that you're being disrespectful to other people might just motivate you to change because of what your behavior is communicating to them.

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And one move that has really helped me a lot, not only thinking about how you're disrespecting other people's time, and it's a disrespectful thing to do to constantly run late and to constantly think that you're more important than everybody else and to constantly think that people are gonna wait for you,

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is instead of rolling in late and being like, sorry, sorry, sorry, and then having some explanation that somehow justifies that you had something more important to do than to be there on time, which is kind of what you're doing, right?

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You're blaming circumstances for why you couldn't be there, which means you're almost more important and so are those circumstances than the people's time who have been waiting for you. One thing that's changed my life has been to learn to say thank you. When you are late and you walk in, the only thing to say to people is thank you for your patience and then sit down and let the meeting go.

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And these six things that we're going to talk about, as you hear them and as I unpack them, you're going to realize, wow, these are things that I experience almost every single day. And you may not realize that they are actually forms of disrespect. Or maybe if you realize it's happening and it's kind of annoying or it bothers you, you just don't know how to handle it, right?

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That's it. No explanation because the explanation is somehow told to absolve you. You're late. That's what happened. thank you for your patience, acknowledges that you were late. And by thanking them, you put the value on the other people. By thanking them, you actually elevate everybody else above you. By thanking them, you are valuing the grace that people just extended to you.

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You're not making an excuse for the fact that you held everybody up. You are acknowledging the power in other people. And it shifts something in you because you're also acknowledging that you were late. And so it will change you when you do that.

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Now, if you're the one who's constantly being disrespected, then the only thing that there is to do, in my opinion, that makes a difference, because what do we know? You can't change another person. All you can do is take responsibility for what you need to communicate. So as much as it pains me to tell you this, you're going to let them be late. You're gonna let them run late.

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You're gonna let them do what they're gonna do because you can't change them. But then you gotta go to the let me part of the let them theory. And you gotta look at what you can control. And what you can control is you can control what you do or don't do in response. You can control what you think about this and what you say about this.

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And I remember a couple years ago, my husband sat me down and basically said, it's completely unacceptable how you chronically run late. because it tells me that you don't respect my time. It tells me that I'm not a priority. And here is my request.

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If you are running late and you can see that your day is stacking up, tell me as soon as you know that you're not gonna be on time, because then I can decide if I wanna continue to go to this thing. Because again, a lot of people that run late have a story about always being late. And it's not until somebody actually has the conversation, which is you're disrespecting me.

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Do you know how disrespectful it is for you to constantly be 15 minutes late? If you can't show up at the reservation until 7.15, let's not make the reservation for 7 o'clock. Start to act like an adult and respect my time.

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And if you know that you're telling me a time and you're actually managing being there a half an hour late, then let's be honest about what time you're actually going to be there. And what was interesting about that is that as somebody that was chronically running late, being called out for disrespecting my husband actually motivated me to want to change it.

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I don't know if it's the headlines or the fact that everybody is so stressed out or the news is so negative, but the impatience of people when they're waiting in lines, the folks that you see like getting frustrated with waiters and folks working in customer service or the nurse trying to take care of a family member, it's like this negativity is vibrating everywhere.

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Being called out about this sort of what he called meld time, which is my propensity to think that I can actually take a shower, blow dry my hair, get dressed and be out the door for something we need to go to in about three minutes. Being called out that that is a form of disrespect because I'm gaslighting myself and I'm also now holding him hostage while I'm not planning accordingly.

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Because there's this real balance when you're being disrespected between how you respond and versus whether or not it's even worth your energy. And you and I are gonna unpack that. In fact, what we're gonna do today is we're gonna tee up each one of these six subtle forms of disrespect. We're gonna do it one by one, and then we're gonna unpack them.

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It made me get honest with myself about how much time I actually need. And it's a lot more than I was planning for. And here's one more move. Don't wait. If they miss the ferry, they miss the ferry. Go on without them. If they miss the movie, they miss the movie. Go on without them. If the play starts and they can't get in until intermission, go in without them.

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Just because they're late doesn't have to make you late. And so this is why it's important that you call this out with the people that are chronically late because nobody that's chronically late actually is even thinking about how they're disrespecting you. They're so caught up in their own inability to do this that they don't have a higher level of motivation to actually fix it.

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And so my request of you is not only do I want you to be on time, I want you to be five minutes early. Because it's a form of respect and I value my time and I value your time. And that's why I'm taking the time to tell you the truth about this. You know what? I value your time enough to tell you that we got three more subtle ways that people are disrespecting you.

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You're going to love these three. You're going to love the advice. We're going to get into them after a very short break. Take a moment and share this with people that you care about and don't go anywhere because when you hear the fourth way people are disrespecting you, it's going to blow your mind. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

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And today you and I are talking about six subtle ways that people are disrespecting you and what to do about it. So we've already covered what to do with people who are talking over you at work or at home. We've talked about how you can show respect to yourself when somebody is dismissing your feelings. And we've also talked at length about

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about what to do when somebody doesn't value your time and they're always running late. Now I wanna jump in to the fourth subtle way that people disrespect you, and it's by giving you the silent treatment. You need to stop punishing people for things you never asked for in the first place.

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And yes, when you hear the word silent treatment, you tend to just default to thinking of like the real hardcore versions of the silent treatment, you know, where somebody ghosts you or you have some sort of uncomfortable situation and they just stop talking to you like a child for weeks or months or a year, like just ghost you and don't have the conversation.

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Or maybe you're dealing with somebody who, when they get mad at you, they just stop talking and you don't even know why. You don't even know why. And the silent treatment, it's so destructive.

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Like the psychiatrists and psychologists that study it and write about it talk about it as a form of emotional abuse because you are withdrawing your love and punishing somebody with silence because you don't like something that they did. But there's a much more subtle way and destructive form of the silent treatment that is destroying your relationships. It's like a death by a thousand cuts.

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And I'm gonna explain why these six things drain energy and steal your time. And then we're going to look at the options that you have in any situation, whether you're at work, whether you're at home, wherever it is that these forms of disrespect are showing up.

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And the more subtle way that people use the silent treatment is by being silent about what you want or need. I mean, how many times have you had someone who's annoyed with you or mad with you and you have no idea why they're mad with you? They just have this weird energy. You know, you left the house earlier. You were going to go play golf or go shopping with your girlfriends.

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And then you come back and it's weird. Like you can tell they're pissed. Their body language has changed. They're not looking at you in the eye. They're kind of like doing the dishes or doing the thing in like the huff puff way. Well, the reason why there's weird energy is because they've been silent about what they actually need or want from you. And so you went about your day-to-day life.

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You went off and played golf. You went and did the errands or met your girlfriends for lunch. And then you come home and they're punishing you because you couldn't read their mind. This is a real thing. This is chronic in relationships, that it's Sunday morning. I was just talking to a girlfriend of mine. She was saying that, recognizing that she's doing this in a relationship.

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It was Sunday morning. All she wanted to do was just plop on the couch and cuddle up and watch movies all day with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend's like, hey, do you mind if I go play golf with the guys? And here's the truth. She did mind. She was like in her stomach when he said this. She's like, yeah, I do mind. Like I want to sit on the couch. Did she say anything? No. She's like, okay, okay.

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How many times have you done that? Somebody says they're gonna go do something. Is it okay? You're like, it's okay. And inside you're silent about the truth. But then when they leave, You sit there and seethe. And then when they come home, you're furious. It should have been nine holes, not 18. They didn't tell me that. They should have known.

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This is not just something that happens in romantic relationships. Danielle Bayer Jackson, she's this friendship expert, bestselling author, said that the research shows that we project what our needs are on the people that we think we're close to because we think our friends and family should know. Well, you should know that I wanted you to be here. You should know that I wanted you to do that.

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And here's what I'm going to tell you. You have no right to be mad at somebody when you didn't even tell them what you wanted. You have no right to be mad at somebody when you kept your mouth quiet. You have no right to be mad at somebody when you stayed silent. People are not mind readers. If you didn't say it, they don't know it. And this is so important because you're doing this.

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After our conversation today, you're not only going to be able to see it coming, you're going to know exactly what to do or what not to do when it happens. And one other thing I wanted to say before we jump in is that if somebody in your life shared this episode with you and that's why you hit play and you're listening to it, that's amazing.

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You're doing this at work by not speaking up about the assignments that you want. You're doing this at work about not asking for what you need. You're doing this with your family. Well, they should just know that I wanted to host Thanksgiving. Well, they should just know that I don't like that. They should just know that I want flowers. And then you punish people because they don't know.

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This is so disrespectful. It is toxic. It's abusive to people. I'm dead serious about this. I wrote about this in the Let Them Theory book. I want to read to you from page 115. The silent treatment is what an immature adult does. when they don't know how to process their emotions or ask for what they need in a healthy and respectful manner. So instead, they stop talking.

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They pretend nothing's wrong, and often they ignore you. And if you've ever been on the receiving end of the silent treatment from a friend, a family member, a coworker, it's painful. And you immediately, your immediate instinct is to try to figure out, okay, what did you do wrong? Have you ever walked into your parents' house And one of your parents is in a horrible mood.

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You have no idea what's wrong, but you know something's wrong. And now all of a sudden you're walking on eggshells and you're trying to delicately figure it out because you don't want to step on an emotional landmine. And then you come to find out that somebody's feelings were hurt because you stayed out longer than they thought that you were going to.

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And they had expectations that you were going to go do something this afternoon, but they never told you. And somehow their silence is your fault. I'm sorry. Their silence is disrespect. That's what it is. It's immaturity. Let me keep reading from page 115. And that's exactly what the person giving you the silent treatment wants. They want your attention.

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Just like a child pouting off in the corner wants the parent to come over and sue them, an adult that gives you the silent treatment wants you to ask, are you okay? Can I do something? What did I do wrong? I'll tell you what you did wrong. You went playing golf and I didn't tell you that I didn't want you to go play golf. So now I'm going to punish you even though I was silent.

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This is how we adults operate with each other. Don't you think that's kind of disrespectful? Isn't it disrespectful if you're doing something wrong at work and nobody tells you? They're silent about it.

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And then they're like mad at you because you're not doing something that they never told you that you needed to do or you're not changing the way that you're doing it and you were doing it wrong and you didn't know. Why is that your problem? Like this is crazy town. And so here's the thing that I want you to understand. You get to choose.

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because they listened to it, they loved it, and they shared it with you because they care about you. And knowing that you have people that care about you in your life, that's a really cool thing. And you happen to have somebody who also wants you to be treated with more respect, and you deserve that.

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When somebody does this to you, this is a sign that somebody has a lot of work to do. They either don't know how to ask for what they need. This is not your fault. Or they don't know how to handle like emotions. And so they stay silent instead of asking for something or talking about something because they're worried about how you're going to respond.

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And this is where the let them theory really helps you. Because if they don't respect you enough to ask for what they need, then don't let them disrespect you with the silent treatment. That's not your fault. And you got to wake up and see it for what it is. And so here's how you can choose to respond to this. Let them go silent. Let them erupt. Let them play the victim. Let them sulk.

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Let them make it all about them. And then focus on the response, the let me part. Let me be the mature, wise, and loving adult in this situation. Let me decide if I want to address this directly or not at all. Let me remind myself that managing another person's emotions, not my job.

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Let me remove myself from any text chain, dinner table, conversation, relationship, or friend group where this is happening. Instead of expecting other people to change, demand the change of yourself. If somebody's so disrespectful that they will stay silent on what they need from you and then punish you for not being a mind reader, you gotta wake up and realize

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what you're dealing with here, and hold yourself to a higher standard. Respect yourself enough to not stay silent when this happens. The more time you pour into a relationship with somebody who acts like an eight-year-old, the more you're going to feel like a parent to a child.

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You got to recognize that you're dealing with somebody who has a lot of internal work to do, and you're either going to have to draw healthier boundaries and ignore them and let them do this crap, Or draw healthier boundaries around the amount of time and energy you're willing to give to them.

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In fact, saying let them and let me, these are tools that you can use to draw boundaries between yourself and other people and to recognize when you're starting to get emotionally triggered And then to say, let me, let me say what I need to say. I don't want you to go play golf today. I'd love to sit on the couch. Could you do that? And now you can have a conversation instead of saying silent.

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And that's what respect looks like. Or I really love it if you would buy me flowers. Because when you buy me flowers, it makes me feel like you're thinking of me. Because I know when you're at the grocery store, you're like, oh, she said buy flowers. And so you buy the tulips. And then I realize that, well, you're not here. You're thinking of me.

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And having me in mind is a way that really makes me know that you love me. And that's a simple thing that you could do. See, now you're treating somebody with respect. Isn't it respectful to tell somebody what you need? Isn't it respectful to tell people how they can support you? Of course it is. And if somebody's not giving you that respect, you got to speak up.

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Now, one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this is because I feel like with the level of stress that people experience in life today and the headlines and the pressure everybody feels, that there is this massive kind of uptick in disrespectful or immature or just downright rude behavior. And you may be seeing it too, that people are just super impatient.

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You got to tell them what you need. And what you need is for them to develop the skills of communicating clearly, expressing what they need from you, asking for the support, and managing their emotions like a mature adult. And that brings me to the fifth subtle way that people disrespect you. And that's just kind of general condescending behavior.

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And general rule of thumb here, never look up to someone who talks down to you. And it can sometimes be a little, I don't know, subtle, like is a good word for it. Sometimes when somebody's condescending and they're talking down to you, you're like, wait a minute, did they just talk down to me? Here's some examples is when somebody says, actually, you did a good job on that.

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Or actually, that really works. Or actually, that's a good idea. That actually, when somebody says it, it's put right in there. Actually, that is a good idea. It happens so fast. You're kind of like, wait a minute. And then you go, wait a minute. If they're saying, actually, that is a good idea. They're also kind of saying, normally you don't have a good idea.

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Or when people say things like, well, I guess that's one way you could do it. They're questioning how you do it. Are you going to wear that? They're questioning what you're wearing. Even things like you can't take a joke. Other examples, you always do this. You never do that. Just relax. This is one of those things when it happens once, you just let it slide.

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But it can become a real problem if you're around somebody who's just constantly chipping away at your confidence or who's just really kind of patronizing. And you can't quite put your finger on it until you put your finger right on it. You're like, oh, wait a minute. This person actually thinks they're better than me. This is a person who's talking down to me.

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And when you realize that that's what's going on, I want you to recognize that this is a massive form of disrespect that is subtly chipping away at you. And what I want you to do is recognize that you do have choices here. I think the best thing to do in this situation is just call it out.

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And the reason why you call it out is because if somebody does believe that they're better than you and they talk down to you, and they chip away at you, they're stepping on your head as a way to feel better about themselves, this is an ingrained part of their personality.

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And one of the reasons why people do this and they bully each other and they're condescending is because they get away with it. And so first step is actually calling it out for yourself. Oh, wait a minute. This person's actually really condescending. And you know that you never look up to someone who talks down to you.

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And so what you're going to do once you recognize it is you want distance from this person. So when they say that thing, well, I guess that's one way to do it. You're going to pause. You can silently say to yourself, let them. Because what you're doing when you say let them is you're not letting them be condescending. You're letting them reveal who they actually are and how they feel about you.

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You're seeing it coming. And then you're going to slowly say, are you trying to be condescending? And just let that hang. Because I'm going to tell you something. Nobody has called them out on this. When you quietly say, are you trying to be condescending? They're going to be so startled. They're going to be like, well, I didn't mean it like that.

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They're kind of rude to each other. In fact, something happened to me the other day, and I'm sure you're going to be able to relate to this story, where I experienced extremely disrespectful behavior. And when someone is really disrespectful, I'm talking rude or just kind of immature or they sound off, It's obvious, right? And we all kind of are like, ugh, noted.

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And they're going to backtrack and try to explain themselves. And now guess who's up and guess who's down. You just took control of the response. You just called out exactly what it is. And you also are not interested in their explanation.

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Another thing that you can do, and this is a trick from our friend Jefferson Fisher, trial lawyer, bestselling author, he's fantastic with his advice about these difficult situations, is when somebody's condescending, you pause and then you can say, can you repeat that?

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Because when you force somebody to repeat a statement where they have this real subtle disrespect into it, they don't want to repeat it because they know you're calling them out and they know what they just did. So again, never look up to someone who talks down to you. And you're going to take a pause. You're going to see it for what it is. It's disrespect. And then you're going to call it out.

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Did you mean to be condescending? Did you mean to disrespect me? Could you repeat that? And trust me, they're not going to repeat it. And that brings me to the sixth subtle form of disrespect, and that is a backhanded compliment.

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And this one's sort of related to the condescending comments, but it comes in the form of something that should be making you feel good, but here's how you know when it's backhanded. A true compliment makes you feel good. Anything that makes you feel bad is disrespect. That's how you know. See, a true compliment would lift you up, Something that's backhanded drags you down.

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Let me give you some examples of that. I wouldn't have expected that you're into yoga. You're a runner? Really? You know, you're really well-spoken. What? For what? What? I wasn't expecting that to look so good on you. Boy, you look so tired. You know, I don't understand how somebody so amazing like you is still single. Like when somebody says it, There's this weird thing that hangs in the air.

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So what do you do? Well, you do the same thing that you can do when somebody is condescending. You can have them repeat it. Could you repeat that? Are you trying to make me feel bad? You can let it sit in silence for a few seconds. I'm really well-spoken compared to what? You can say, what did you actually mean? Didn't you start to feel uncomfortable in that silence?

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And you're just listening to me explain the expert advice. When you pause and you ask them to repeat it, or you ask them, what did you actually mean? Or are you trying to make me feel bad? Holy smokes. Is it wild what happens? The reason why it's called a backhanded compliment is because even though it's like kind of packaged as something that's meant to be positive,

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There's actually a dig in there because the reason why people do this is it's an attempt to boost their status at your expense. There's very interesting research that's been done at Harvard Business School. Three professors dug into this. They have a study called Backhanded Compliments, How Negative Compliments Undermine Flattery.

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And people use these backhanded compliments to boost their own status while still trying to be likable. I mean, just think about the saying, you know, you're pretty smart for someone who didn't go to college. Like what the heck is that? You're pretty smart for someone who didn't go to college? Well, what the study found is that this tactic, it doesn't work.

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In fact, something like that happened to me the other day. And when I tell you the story, I'm sure you're going to go, oh, I've had something like that happen recently. So I was on a plane and I was sitting in my seat and my seatmate kind of came in and she sat down and she had a small dog with her.

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Instead of making you look good, it actually makes others see you as insincere and calculating, like we're on to you. But I think when it happens to you, you're not quite sure what to do about it. And what I always think about is this, what is the intention of behind what somebody's saying versus the impact, right? Because I can let a lot of things slide in life.

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I always try to assume good intent, but here's what I want you to understand. And this is where the disrespect comes in. If they truly wanted to compliment you, there's no room for a dig. Compliments are meant to shine a light on you, to lift you up, to make you feel good. So if there's anything that rubs you wrong or makes you feel bad, you know there's a subtle form of disrespect in there.

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And so focus on the impact it has on you. This is something where you need to give yourself permission to really own how something impacts you. Because if you feel disrespected, if you feel confused, if you feel bothered by what somebody just said, that's not a compliment. That is somebody saying something as a way to lift themselves up at your expense.

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And so what you can do about that is use any of the tools we've already discussed. pause because the silence is a form of power and it also gives you a beat. And then you can say a number of things. What did you actually mean by that? Could you repeat that? Are you trying to make me feel bad? Is that a backhanded compliment? When you call it out, you show yourself respect.

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And that's why it's important to recognize that a backhanded compliment isn't a compliment at all. It's a form of disrespect. And over and over and over again, as we've unpacked each of these six subtle forms of disrespect, whether it's somebody talking over you, dismissing your feelings, always being late, the silent treatment, condescending behavior, backhanded compliments,

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The real power move is recognizing that these are forms of disrespect. Simply being able to go, oh, wait, that's disrespectful. That's the first step in respecting yourself. Being able to recognize that what other people are doing, that's not in your control. How you respond to it is where your power is. So as you think about these six subtle forms of disrespect,

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I want you to remember that there's also the opportunity for you to respect yourself. Everything that we've talked about is you recognizing when you're being disrespected and realizing that your response is a form of respect to yourself. So the first form of subtle disrespect is when someone's talking over you. When someone's talking over you, they don't care about what you have to say.

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And she had the dog in a, you know, like one of those traveling cases that people take their dogs on. And she was trying to put the case underneath the seat and it wasn't fitting. And I don't travel with a dog, so I don't know the deal with dog carrier cases. But, you know, the thing had mesh on the side and it seemed kind of squishy. And the dog was really, really, really cute and really tiny.

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That's why it's disrespectful. You take the power back by respecting yourself and respecting what you have to say, which is why you're gonna keep talking slowly. And then you're gonna use the person's name to cue them to stop talking and to tell them that you're interested in hearing what they have to say, but first you want them to hear what you have to say before they start responding.

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And then you're gonna do the ultimate respectful power move. And once you're done talking, because you care about what you have to say, all righty, Mike, Was there something you wanted to say in response to what I just shared? Boom. Now you've got the respect of yourself and everyone around you. Second subtle form of disrespect is when somebody is dismissing your feelings.

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When somebody dismisses your feelings or is trying to rush you through your feelings, they don't care about how you feel or they don't have the capacity to give you the room to feel what you have to feel. That's why they're dismissing your feelings. So you gotta respect yourself enough to recognize that and validate your feelings. I feel how I feel. I get to choose how I feel about this.

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Let me decide how long I'm gonna be upset. Let me decide what I get emotional about. Let me decide how I wanna feel about this. When you decide how you feel, when you respect your feelings, now we've taken care of the disrespect. Three, always running late.

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This is a form of disrespect because there's a big difference between the skill of time management and whether or not you value your time and other people's time. And so to change this, you have to respect yourself enough to value your time. That may mean that you got to learn the skill of time management. That was the case for me.

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Or it might mean that you've got to start to speak up about how disrespectful someone's lack of time management is to your time. Because when you do that, it's a sign that you value your time and you're actually protecting it by saying something.

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And that brings me to the fourth subtle form of disrespect, which is when people use the silent treatment and they go silent on what they need and they go silent on giving you feedback about how you can improve and how you can show up differently. And then they freaking punish you for it. And here's the deal. You got to respect yourself enough to speak up.

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You're not allowed to punish people for things you never asked for in the first place.

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And if somebody is constantly punishing you with their mood or going silent and not expressing their needs, you got to wake up and respect yourself enough to recognize that you're dealing with a very immature adult who has a lot of work to do and go into that relationship with eyes wide open because you're not the parent to that person.

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but you will feel like it if you don't start speaking up about what's working and what's not working and what you need, which is for them to learn the skill of being a mature adult and asking in a respectful way for the things that they need from you. The fifth subtle form of disrespect is when somebody's behavior is condescending, right? They kind of just chip away at you.

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And so she's trying to put it under the seat. And the stewards that are working on the plane, they came by and, you know, they were saying, you know, that that seems a little big. I think that's going to be too big to put under the seat. And the woman starts to get very flustered and she's kind of shaking her shoulders and now it's going to fit, it's going to fit.

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That's actually a good idea. You know, not bad for somebody who didn't go to college. And you're like, wait a minute, what was that? And don't ever look up to somebody who talks down to you. And if somebody's talking down to you, you've got to lift yourself up and start calling this stuff out. Or you got to remove the access that this person has from you.

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Spend less time, less energy with them because that's a way for you to respect yourself enough to not expose yourself to this kind of behavior. And finally, backhanded compliments are not a compliment at all. Compliments are supposed to make you feel good. So if somebody says something that confuses you or hurts your feelings or kind of makes you feel bad, that was no compliment.

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That was disrespect. And the way that you respect yourself, first of all, silence. Second, see it for what it is. Third, call that stuff out. Are you trying to be condescending? Was that a backhanded compliment? What do you actually mean by that? You call it out and it's a sign that you respect yourself enough? to not tolerate this kind of disrespect from someone else.

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And so I want to read one more thing to you to remind you. Instead of expecting other people to change, demand the change of yourself. That right there is where your power is. Demand the change of yourself. First, you have to spot the disrespectful behavior. Then you focus on your response because your response to this is how you learn to respect yourself.

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And I'm going to be the first to say, I respect you so much for the fact that you took the time to listen to this because it shows that you're investing your time and energy in listening or watching something that can really help you improve yourself and improve your life. And I think that's so cool. And it's one of the reasons why I never forget to tell you that I love you.

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The reason why I love you is because I admire the fact that you are using your time and energy for good. You are using your time and energy to listen to something that will help you amp up the level of respect that you have for yourself. You're using your time and energy to learn more about how you can draw better boundaries and spot behavior that's disrespectful. I admire that.

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And I had you in mind as I was having this conversation and thinking about how you could use these tools to improve your life. And so that's why I say I love you. Because I love you for the fact that you took the time to actually be here, to share this with people that you care about, and to use these tools in your life. Mad respect for you. You, my friend, have the ability to create a better life.

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And the person working on the plane said, well, let me see if I can help you. And they kind of bend down and the one's like, I got it. And you can tell that her tone is now getting agitated. Now, keep in mind, the person's trying to help. The plane is getting ready to close the doors. She's kind of ruffling around in her seat.

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Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days. I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. The moment you hit play, I'll be there to welcome you in. I'll see you there. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. You ready? All right, great. Okay, you know, of course, here comes a frog in the throat right when we're about to start. Okay. So hold on. Let me just see. All right.

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Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Is the pace okay? And as I'm telling you this story, we're going to have a throat clearing thing. Jesse, sorry. Lots of edits today. How are we doing guys? Okay. Okay. Thank you, my dear. I think it's right about there. Great. Thanks, honey. All right. And then I'll start with, before we get into this episode. Okay, great. Okay, great. Thank you. Oh, and one more thing.

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And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

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And the person says, well, if we just turn it on its side, I bet you could slide it in a little bit more because you can't have it sticking out right there in front of you. And the woman's like huffing and puffing. And so the steward's like, well, here, let me help you. And the woman's like, no, no, I got it.

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And kind of pushes the carrier in and the little dog kind of bends down a little bit and it fits. And that was that. And as the steward stands up, he says to her, Well, how about if I take your coat? Because she had this huge coat, right?

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So as the steward stands up, because they've helped get the dog carrier underneath the seat, and the woman's got this huge coat on her lap, and the person says, hey, would it help if I hang up your coat? And the woman turns to him and says, absolutely not. It was so hostile. And this was aimed at a human being who was trying to help her.

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And I want you to know you're not crazy. The disrespect that you're starting to feel, the immaturity that you're encountering, it is higher than it's been in the past couple months. It does seem like gossip is ticking up. People are talking over you at work and at the dinner table. And the reason is simple. People are less patient. They're stressed out. They're angrier. They're overwhelmed.

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And I don't know about you, but when I experience a person like that, I am so interested in protecting my peace that unless they're hurting somebody or discriminating against them or just really creating a ruckus, I'm like, okay, let's put up a force field. I'm going to protect my energy from this person because I'm now seeing data. This person is very emotionally immature.

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She's very disrespectful. She gets overwhelmed by her emotions. She definitely feels entitled and above any of the rules here. And when she gets overwhelmed, she lashes out at other people. And I'm going to stop the story right there because, you know, who knows what was going on in her world? Who knows if she's got a lot going on?

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I tend to just assume good intent, but I don't think because you're stressed out that That gives you the right to be disrespectful to other people, particularly other people who are just trying to do their jobs and just trying to help you. But I kind of take that as data. very disrespectful, overwhelmed by emotions, I'm gonna stay clear and I'm gonna protect my energy.

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Because that's one of the first things that you and I are gonna talk about, is that when you're dealing with disrespect, you get to decide if this is worth your energy or not. You get to decide if you're gonna be the world's manners police, or you're gonna be the person that enforces the rules. You get to decide whether or not you call people out. And so in this situation, I'm strapped to my seat.

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I have to sit next to this person for two hours. And so I make a decision. Well, I'm just going to let her be disrespectful. I'm going to let me choose not to say anything to her. And then I'm also gonna let me over-index and be super kind to the steward that's working on this plane, right? Because I feel bad for this person.

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I mean, they're just doing their job and they've got this entitled jerk sitting there on the plane acting as if their problems are somehow everybody else's fault. And as I tell you this story,

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You can probably recall an incident recently where somebody was just going crazy at a customer service rep, or maybe somebody was rude to a waiter, or maybe your family gets really agitated when the news is on and they start yelling at the TV or talking to each other and this really tone of voice. And you kind of feel it in your skin, can't you?

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When somebody gets that sort of just really disrespectful and emotionally immature energy around them. And I'm a really, Generally nice person, but this is the kind of thing I can't tolerate. I can't tolerate it when people are rude and mean to other people because we're all just trying our best.

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You know, in fact, as we were talking about this, I have a friend who works on the team who was saying, I totally get it. And her dad is in a nursing home. Her dad just had a stroke, needs around the clock care, and he is very demanding.

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And if you have somebody in your life, whether it's a grandparent or a parent who's getting older and they're starting to do that sun setting thing and they are throwing the temper tantrums and they get really like nasty and kind of angry with people around them, it's like embarrassing because you've got a grown ass adult throwing temper tantrums and saying things that are disrespectful.

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And if you're the family member, it's like you're standing by and you're like, oh my God, I cannot believe this person is acting like this. And the tendency in these situations, especially when it's family, right, is to just be like, oh, I'm really, really sorry. I'm really, really sorry.

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And what I loved about my friend's approach is she just pulled the nurse aside and was like, he's a tough old bastard. I guess you and I are in this together. I really appreciate you taking care of him and being calm. It means a lot. And so I'm telling you these two stories because I'm sure you've experienced this kind of dynamic, right? Where nobody is gonna debate you. Is that disrespectful?

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And stress seems to be the baseline now for all communication. Do you know what that means? It means that people's fight or flight responses are revved up. And that's why it seems like everybody's on edge. And I'm not trying to blame stress or excuse away bad behavior. In fact, I wanna do the opposite today.

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Is it not disrespectful? Are they out of line? Are they not out of line? We all agree, the behavior's out of line. And maybe you're experiencing this kind of thing at work. You got a boss that's a yeller and it's constantly barfing their stress out on everyone else. Not cool.

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You got a family member that is so volatile with their emotions and then is passive aggressive or has a silent treatment or their mood sends the entire family dynamic into a tailspin. We all know it's disrespectful. We all know that they're acting immature. And I also want to validate something. There is a massive uptick in this kind of disrespectful behavior.

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Like if you're really noticing that people seem on edge, I wanna tell you, you're right. And one of the reasons why people seem on edge right now and why they're being more disrespectful and they're not being as polite and they're impatient and they're snapping is because people are operating at levels of chronic stress, which means they're in a constant state of fight or flight.

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Now I'm not saying that to justify any kind of disrespect. I'm saying it because if you're feeling like, my God, like everybody's on edge and everybody's like super emotional and people are giving people the silent treatment and what is up with this? You're not the only one that's feeling this. And so in these big moments, One of the things I want to remind you is your peace is worth protecting.

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And I have found more and more and more that when I find somebody out in public or I find a family member who is acting with overt disrespect, I'm just like, let them. And here's one thing I want to clear up. When you say let them, you're not just letting somebody be disrespectful. That's not what this is. They're already disrespectful. They've already yelled. They're already in their mood.

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When you say let them, you're not allowing anything. You're calling it out. You're calling it out to yourself and you're drawing a boundary and you're saying, let them be disrespectful. Let them be immature. Let them use that tone of voice. Because I recognize that this is not worth my energy and I'm not going to try to control it. Let me remind myself that I'm not the parent to another adult.

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Let me remind myself I can leave this store. I can leave this dining room table. I can leave this conversation. Let me remind myself that I don't have to be the parent to this woman sitting next to me on the airplane. I can just sit quietly here and be kind and project positive energy. And that's how I protect myself. I'm not allowing anything. I'm actually protecting myself from it.

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And so don't mistake saying let them with you allowing something to happen. Let them is recognizing who a person is and spotting emotional immaturity for what it is, something that other people engage in, but it is not your responsibility to change in someone else. You can choose to, but I'm finding over and over and over again, These days, I'm choosing not to because I want to stay in my peace.

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But that brings me to what I wanted to talk to you about today. Because in these big moments where somebody explodes or they're just like downright rude, it's really obvious. But there are six very subtle ways that people disrespect you right now. And these are things that sort of slide under the radar.

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I wanna validate what you're feeling and I wanna empower you by highlighting six subtle ways that you're being disrespected at work, at home, in your relationship.

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They're the kinds of things that don't feel good, but you're not quite sure how to respond or if it's worth a response. And I'm gonna tell you something.

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You and I are going to unpack these six subtle ways that people are disrespecting you because I want you to understand that seeing it and choosing what you do in response to it is how you start to respect yourself and how you start to respect your time and your energy.

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And what we're going to do is I'm going to tee these up one by one and then you and I are going to unpack them and we're going to talk about the tools that you need. And those tools, they range from specific things that you can say to just recognizing what's happening and choosing to protect your peace. So let's take them one by one.

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The first subtle form of disrespect is when someone is talking over you. Because the fact is, if someone talks over you, they have no interest in listening to what you have to say. I'm going to say that again. If someone talks over you, they have no interest in listening to what you have to say. That's disrespectful. It means they don't care about what you have to say.

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They care more about what they have to say, which is why they're talking over you. And so when this happens, and it happens a lot at work, in fact, women experience this more than men. This can be a chronic problem at work. It can be a chronic problem in your family. It can be a problem in your friend group. And I want you to recognize it for what it is.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So the other day I was on FaceTime with our two daughters, and they're 25 and 24 years old, and one of them was saying, I've just been really stuck in this mental rut lately. It's like no matter what she does, it's just never enough. She'll see somebody else doing something and then all of a sudden she's beating herself up.

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That dog will literally run over a child in order to get the ball, get the ball, get the ball because it's hardwired to focus on that and then it brings it back. Your brain does the same thing. Your brain is just sitting around like a bored labrador waiting for you to pick up a ball and put it in motion, waiting for you to throw something out into the future and say, go get it.

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Your brain loves projects. You know this. It wants something to gnaw on. It is bored. Like, have you ever noticed too, like if you got a dog that needs a job, if it doesn't have a job, what does it do? It chews your slippers. It starts gnawing on the corners of your cabinets. Next thing you know, it's naughty and it's peeing in the corner. Why?

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Because it's got all this mental energy and this desire to have a project and to chase down a ball, and you're not feeding that desire. Your brain's the same way. It needs a job. And that brings me to skill number one. One of the best things that you can do is understand that giving yourself a project or a goal or some sort of ball that you can put in play in your life is

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It is one of the best ways to direct your brain at something other than you. It's one of the best ways to start to leverage the natural capacity that your mind has to solve problems and to actually chase something down. And this isn't just my suggestion. This comes from not only research that I'm going to walk you through, but it comes from something that

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world-renowned PhD, New York Times bestselling author, Martha Beck has been talking about. And you may have seen her talking about this. It's the basis of her new book. And there's so much research that I'm also going to share with you after you hear this clip. But you're going to hear Martha Beck talking about the fact that, you know, when you're in an anxious state or you're ruminating,

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We now know in the way that you and I are talking about this, the supercomputer is now aimed at you. You're up in your head. Instead of like being focused on the world and solving problems, you're now tearing yourself down. You've made yourself a problem, right?

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The other way you can think about this is that Labrador Retriever is chewing on the slipper and being self-destructive because it's got nothing to do. Well, she had this thesis in this book. Well, if you're in that state, Being anxious and negative, it shuts down your ability to problem solve. We know this based on the research. We also know it based on common sense.

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Five simple things that create a more positive way of looking at yourself. And by the way, these are also the exact same five things that will train your brain to help you get what you want in life.

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It shuts down your ability to be creative. Well, she thought, well, wait a minute. does creativity and problem solving actually shut down anxiety and rumination and being negative? Turns out it does. And so here's Martha Beck sharing this idea on the Today Show.

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And the idea is so exciting and it's also so simple and obvious to understand that you're going to hear Martha talking first and then you're going to hear the Today Show anchors jump in because they totally get it. And then what we're going to do after you listen to this is you and I are going to unpack what she said so that you can apply this first skill. Take a listen.

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If you like to draw or paint or do whatever. Just stop and consider what she's saying. It's true, isn't it? that when you're idle, your thoughts turn negative. When you've got nothing that you're focused on, the supercomputer focuses on you. And because it's a problem-solving machine, it typically is looking for problems, and then it turns you into one.

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And so I love what Martha Beck is saying, because she's basically saying, anytime you're worried, anytime you're negative, it's a sign that your mind is now turning you into a problem. And we can change this by picking up a ball and in her language, by doing something creative with your hands. She talked about how, like, just start planning the meal for tonight.

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So whether you're excited to learn this because you're just so sick and tired of beating yourself up and dragging yourself down, or you want to help someone that you care about, like I want to help my daughters, or maybe you've got big goals and you're like, Mel, tell me how to get my mind to work for me so that I can get what I want.

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Open up a cookbook and start flipping through it. And now what you're doing, you've thrown a ball. Your mind is now focused on solving the problem. The problem is no longer you. The problem is what are we going to create for dinner? It's a simple idea that has so much research in it. In fact, I want you to hear this research because it's not just about creativity.

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It's about the power of having a project that you can aim your mind at. This is this revelation that I had about my daughter that, oh my God, like she's got so much horsepower upstairs. And so do you, that if you're not aiming it at something, it's going to come back at you. And I want to share some of this research with you because it's actually very exciting about simply having a project.

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And it could be a project like, I've got a project this weekend that I know that I'm going to get lost in. And that is now that my husband and I are empty nesters, it's time for me to go through the closets in the bedroom upstairs and donate what is just being used as long-term storage by our adult children, right? And just kind of reclaim the space. That's a project.

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That will keep my mind occupied, which will keep me from turning it against myself and ruminating. And the research bears this out. Check this out. Simply having a project, according to research done at the University of Exeter, turns down negative self-talk.

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What's so interesting about this is that they found in this research study that when you have a project and you start chipping away at it, I walk upstairs, I open up the closet, I start sorting through what's in there. that the small steps literally rewire your brain away from rumination. It makes so much sense when you realize, well, that's because I am focusing my brain on something.

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I'm putting a ball in play instead of having it aim it at me. And when you don't have a project, you feel like you're not making progress towards anything, which means you have more negative emotions. So it works in the positive and the negative. And I think you can kind of see that. When you're not really working on anything, you got an idle mind. And that's not gonna come to a lot of good.

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Here's another research study from the University of Michigan and the University of Oxford. This one was published in a journal called Neuron. Having a project also boosts happiness because having something to focus on actually increases dopamine, which we know is kind of this neurochemical that gets released in your mind that is all about drive, and it helps you focus.

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Well, I'm gonna, because that's exactly what we're talking about today. Five simple things that will redirect all your mental energy toward happiness, success, and self-transformation. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I love what we're gonna talk about today. I am so excited that you're here. It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together.

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And your brain is going to release dopamine not when you clean out the closet, not when you finish writing the song, not when you finish paying your bills, not when dinner is finished cooking, but rather as you're working toward it. How cool is that?

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And it kind of makes sense because if you take as fact that your brain's a supercomputer that wants to solve problems, that wants to engage in something, that wants to build and design and create and have a project to focus on, When you provide that to the supercomputer between your ears, your supercomputer is a little happier because it's able to chase a ball.

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It's able to do what it's designed to do. Here's another study from Pennsylvania University that having a project to focus your brainpower on strengthens your overall mental health. Goals give you direction and purpose. Goals help you navigate challenges because it actually gives your mind something to focus on, which helps you build resilience against stress and emotional struggles.

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And you know what's interesting about that? Is that I know based on what I'm seeing in the inbox as your fellow listeners are writing in from around the world, that you're experiencing just unprecedented levels of stress.

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And we know that based on the medical experts that we talk to on this show all the time, that the levels of chronic stress that people are experiencing are at unprecedented levels. And it would have never occurred to me

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that one of the ways for you to not allow the stress to put you in an even more negative state would be to have a project, something like a painting to do or a closet to clean out or like some sort of something that you're working on.

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Because that means that even in a stressed out state, you have something that you can aim your brain at so that your tired, stressed out brain doesn't start turning you into an even bigger problem. I just love this research.

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So number one, what you're learning is that in order to take control of your mind, in order to let go of negative thoughts, in order to redirect your energy toward happiness, success, and self-transformation, skill number one is put a ball in play. Find a project. And if you can make it creative, if you can use your hands, even better.

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Because when you focus that supercomputer in your brain on something outside of you, it is happy and it's excited and it's now engaged and that's gonna leave you with space that is going to feel better for you. So that's skill number one. I got four more that I want to cover with you. I don't want you to go anywhere. What I want you to do is I want you to share this with someone.

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We're going to take a quick pause so I can hear a word from our amazing sponsors of the Mel Robbins Podcast. But don't you dare go anywhere because I'm just getting started. That's just skill number one. We got four more to cover and each one gets better and better and better. And I can't wait for you to hear them. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

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And today I am teaching you five simple things that I do that have helped me take control of my mind. It has helped me let go of negative thoughts and redirect all my mental energy into using my brain for good. Having the kind of mindset or the thinking patterns that make me feel happier, that make me more successful, and that have really transformed my life. And today I'm teaching them to you.

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And we've already talked about the fact that your brain is this extraordinary supercomputer that is designed to build and focus on projects and create. And if you don't aim it at something and you don't intentionally train it, in terms of how you want it to work for you, that supercomputer will aim itself back at you.

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And we've talked already about the first skill or habit that you can use in order to have your brain work for you and to take control of it. And that is to always give it a project. And giving it a project is a lot like throwing a ball for a Labrador retriever. Once that ball is in motion, man, that dog is running. Your brain's the same way.

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Once you let your brain know that there's a project that you want to work on, your brain is now engaged in something other than bashing you. So that's skill number one. Skill number two is something that you may have heard me talk about before. This is a habit of mine. I use it every single day in my life. I am not kidding.

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It is a habit that has helped me wire my brain for success because it is a way that I train my mind to see what I want to see. And seeing what you want to see in the world, it's not some woo-woo, stupid nonsense. This is hard science. I actually wrote about this in my New York Times bestselling book, The High Five Habit.

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And so you may have heard about this before, but even so, it's a fabulous reminder. So what is skill number two? Skill number two, my daily habit is look for hearts. I know what you're thinking. What does that mean, Mel? Look for hearts is a very simple game that you're going to play that helps you train your brain. And it's very simple. Today,

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As you're going about your life, I want you to look for a naturally occurring heart shape somewhere around you. That's it. You are going to tell your brain, as stupid as it sounds, brain, today, somewhere in the world, I want you to show me a shape of a heart. It could be a leaf on a tree. It could be a stain on a sidewalk. It could be the shape of the foam on your coffee today.

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And if you're a new listener, I just wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so glad that you're here, and I also wanna point out something. If you're listening to this particular episode because someone shared this with you, That's really cool. It means you have people in your life that care about you.

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It might be a spot on a dog at the dog park. In fact, you can do it right now as long as you're not driving a car. I want you to just look around the environment that you're in. I mean, I'm so trained to do this now that I see them everywhere. And I want you to just kind of scan the environment and see if somewhere around you, I've already spotted two where I am right now.

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I'm going to describe them in just a second. See if you can see a heart shape. Is there a shadow on the wall? Is there some discoloration in the brick?

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Like right now, as I'm looking straight around the room that I am in above the garage here in Southern Vermont, I can see that on the whiteboard over on the other side of the room, we have a series of magnets and they're all clustered at the bottom of the whiteboard. And a bunch of the magnets are together and they're actually in the shape of a heart.

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I'm looking down on the carpet and I see that there's a stain on the carpet, a little like, I don't know what, maybe it's cat hair. I can't quite tell what that is. But it's also in the shape of a heart. Every time I go on a walk in the woods, I see rocks, I see tree stumps, I see them everywhere. So you're probably thinking, why on earth... Is this important? Well, let me explain the science.

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In order to explain the science, I want to teach you about a part of your brain, the supercomputer between your ears, that has a specific name. And that part of your brain is called the reticular activating system. Okay, reticular activating system. I like to call it the RAS for short, because reticular activating system is a mouthful, and you don't need to know that.

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You just need to know that there is this filter in your brain. I think about it almost like there's a hairnet that's over my brain. It's like the bouncer for your brain. And what is this reticular activating system doing? Well, it is deciding all day long what information gets into your conscious mind and what information is being filtered out of your conscious mind. That is what it is doing.

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And there's a reason why you need this filter. So we had an amazing neuroscientist and neurosurgeon from Stanford that appeared on the Mel Robbins podcast by the name of Dr. Jim Doty. So he is not only somebody who is a neuroscientist, he is a neurosurgeon, meaning he actually operates on people's brain. And he is a world-renowned expert in the neuroscience of manifestation.

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And he told me when I was talking to him about the science, check this out. Do you know that there are six to 10 million bits of information coming at your mind, body, and spirit every single second? Six to 10 million. Your brain can't handle that. Neither can your body. Dr. Doty says that your conscious brain can only handle between 50 and 100 bits.

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And 99% of that that it can handle is all stuff that's about how your body operates. So we're talking teeny amounts of information is actually getting to your conscious brain. What's super interesting about this is that means that a massive amount, a bazillion amounts of bits of information are bombarding you. You're just not aware of it.

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And I just want to take a moment and point that out. And I know that so many of you are going to be sharing this episode with people that you care about.

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And the reason why you're not aware of it is because of this hairnet on your brain, the bouncer, the reticular activating system. Its job is to decide, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, of the six to 10 million bits coming at me a million miles an hour, what's actually important? Now, here's where this gets interesting. What's important is what you tell your reticular activating system is important.

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This is so cool. This is a treasure trove. This is how you take control of your mind. If you're interested in achieving your goals and making more money and having a positive mindset, understanding that your brain is trying to help you, And if you're not helping your brain by telling your brain what's important to it, it's gonna filter out things that could be helping you.

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So I also want to thank you for taking the time to listen to something that's not only going to help you create a more positive mindset, and it's going to teach you five simple things that you can do to let go of the negative thoughts and train your mind to work for you.

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And that brings me back to this daily habit that I have. Anytime I'm on a walk, I'm looking for hearts. Because it's a way for me to prove to myself that the filter's actually working. And you're gonna be startled when you see this. You are literally gonna go out for a walk today, or you're gonna be out and about in your life, and maybe you've already seen something.

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Maybe you've already seen a heart as you've been listening to me or watching on YouTube right now, that you've seen this heart. And the reason why you saw it is because you and I are talking about it. It's sort of like, you know, another example I can give you about how this works is, you know how social media

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is dynamically filtering things based on what it either watches you watching on social or it hears you talking to somebody about something. And, you know, you're talking about maybe bird feeders. And next thing you know, there's freaking ads for bird feeders all over your social media. Well, that's because social media has a filter. and it's dynamic. Your brain has the same thing.

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And so this is a habit looking for hearts that you can do all day, every day to strengthen this filter. Every time you see a heart, here's what I want you to do. I want you to stop and just take it in. I want you for a minute in a very calm way to to see this heart that you see as a sign from the universe or God or goddesses or whatever you believe in.

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that the world is actually trying to help you, that there are signs all around you. And you, just like I used to, you're just so up in your head and your computer is aimed against you that you're not programming it correctly to see the positive signs that are around you. If you can tell your brain to look for a heart, you can actually learn to use this habit to look for other things too.

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I mean, one of the reasons why I'm so successful in business and why it appears from the outside that I'm a super lucky person is because I understand all of the things I'm teaching you today. I have learned how to take that supercomputer between my head and stop aiming it at myself and aim it out and to program it to help me spot coincidences and to help me spot things that are going my way.

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Because when you start to spot things that are going your way, you start to spot more things that are going your way. Just like you're going to notice that, oh my gosh, Mel, now that I saw one heart, I see them everywhere. Same here. Why? Because I've told my brain to. If you've read The High Five Habit, chapter seven of the book is about love. this programming.

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I'm so excited that you're listening to that for yourself and also that you're going to be able to share this resource with people that you care about because I know you're the type of person who values your time and you made the time to listen to this.

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And one of the things that I love since introducing the world to the high five habit and writing this book is that every day on social media, people post hearts that they find. This is on page 91 of the book. It's just plastered with hearts that people have found. And it's evidence that your mind can be trained. Now, here's something I want to read to you, okay?

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Because you may be thinking, look, I got huge problems, Mel. The negativity is justified because there's a lot of things going on in my life. And so I want to say something right now. Looking for hurts is not going to make your problems go away. Not at all. What looking for hearts does is it actually leverages the power of your mind to problem solve and to start to work for you.

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And I got to start with baby steps here. Like if you can't find a heart as you're taking a walk outside tomorrow, you're not going to believe that your brain and the filter in it is there for you to use to your advantage. You know, as I write in this book,

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You know, the point of this exercise is to train your mind to spot things you currently block out and prove to yourself that you can make your brain work for you by telling it what is important to you. And if you want to make a lot of money, you better train your mind to see opportunities and deals that other people walk right by. just like the stupid heart rock on the ground.

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Because if you miss the heart rock because you're not looking for it, then you're gonna miss the opportunities and deals that are right there that you currently aren't seeing because you're not looking for it either. And the only reason why you're not looking for it is because you haven't made this a project. And the way you can start doing this is by looking for hearts.

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It's my way to prove to you that this filter is there and it is waiting for you to program it. And it's a simple thing. You can do this with your kids. You can do it anywhere that you live in the world. You can do this as a way to start to understand that, wow, My mind is very flexible. Wow, there are things that I see now that I've never seen. Nothing changed in the outside world.

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And so if you're sick of beating yourself up, if you're sick of living in a negative place, or if you're just curious, like how do I use simple research-backed methods to actually make my mind work for me, holy cow, are you in the right place because that's exactly what we're going to talk about today.

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What changed is the filter on the supercomputer because you programmed it. And you can train yourself in how you program it by simply looking for hearts. How freaking cool is that? And that brings me to tool number three. And tool number three is all about manifesting. And again, just like looking for hearts, this is not fairy dust and woo-woo, this is hard science.

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And I mentioned a Stanford neurosurgeon and neuroscientist by the name of Dr. Jim Doty. Well, I'm gonna bring Dr. Jim Doty into this part of our brain training session. Because as I said earlier, he's not only a professor, a New York Times bestselling author, he's a world-renowned expert on the neuroscience of manifestation. He also is a neurosurgeon who operates on the brain.

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I mean, this guy understands the science. And he has this extraordinary way of explaining what manifestation is. And manifestation, in the words of Dr. Doty... is just quote, the ability to take an intention and embed it into your subconscious in a manner such that it has the greatest likelihood to occur.

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In other words, Dr. Doty teaches people around the world, and he's about to teach you this, that you can, through intentional actions, fire and wire your neural pathways together to make your supercomputer in your brain help you. That's what this is. Manifesting isn't magic and woo-woo and fairy dust. Manifesting is programming your brain so that it helps you get what you want in life.

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And there is so much amazing hard science here. And I'm going to bring Dr. Doty into the conversation because Dr. Doty is not only going to explain this at a scientific level for you, and he's going to talk about the parts of the brain that you use when you want to intentionally program your brain to work for you, but he is also going to walk you through the five simple steps that he uses.

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I'm talking Stanford's neuroscientist and neurosurgeon, the guy who wrote the book on the science of manifesting, is going to walk you through the five things he does every morning in his manifesting practice so that you can learn how to do this too. And don't go anywhere because we're going to hear a short word from our sponsors.

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I'm going to give you a second to share this extraordinary conversation with the people that you care about. And when we return, you and I are going to learn from Dr. Jim Doty. on the science of manifesting, because that is the third skill that you need in order to leverage the power of your brain. We'll be right back. Welcome back, it's your buddy Mel Robbins.

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Five simple things that you can do to take control of your mind, let go of negative thoughts, and redirect all your mental energy toward happiness, success, and self-transformation. And so, you know, I always am very intentional about why I want to talk to you about certain things. And what inspired this conversation today is the conversation I had with my daughters.

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I love our topic today and I'm so excited for you and I'm excited for everybody that you share this with because these are simple things that we're talking about that truly help you leverage the full capacity of your brain. And one of my favorite tools is manifesting. And what you're about to learn is that manifesting is not magic, it's not fairy dust, it is hard science.

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And it is all about intentional ways you can leverage your brain circuitry to lay down new neural pathways and embed programming in your subconscious mind. And I wanted you to learn from the best of the best. And in my opinion, the best of the best is Dr. Jim Doty. Dr. Jim Doty is a fascinating guy. He is a professor at Stanford. He is the former chairman of the Dalai Lama Institute.

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He is a neuroscientist and a neurosurgeon. And he trained at Stanford. And he has a New York Times bestselling book that is all about the science of manifesting.

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I'm so excited for you to learn from him because one of the things he's about to share with you is he's not only going to break down what manifesting is and what it means to embed something in your subconscious and what it means to lay down neurocircuitry. But he's going to walk you through what he does every morning in his manifesting practice. And this is something you can use.

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You can literally try this tomorrow morning. And what I'm excited about for you is that it's so easy. And the way that he describes it, it just makes so much sense. So it is my absolute honor to be able to introduce you to Dr. Jim Doty and have you spend a little bit of time learning from him. Check this out.

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Now, can we unpack that just a minute? Sure. Because everyone that listens to this loves to make sure that they just got the instructions from you, Dr. Doty, because I'm like hanging on every word. And so there were a couple steps to that.

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She's picking apart how she looks. She's working very hard and she was like, I know I'm working very hard and I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and yet I'm telling myself it's not enough. Have you ever been in that kind of place? I know I have. Or maybe somebody that you love, they're really stuck in this negative rut right now. Well, that's what you and I are going to talk about today.

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Because you had the physical pencil, you had the act of writing, you had this moment where if you're watching on YouTube, you saw it, but if you're listening, let me describe it. He sat back in his chair, he put his hands kind of in prayer at his chest, closed his eyes, and he started talking about repeating the thought. Is that the chain of events that you do to encode it in your mind?

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So will you walk us through it one more time? Sure.

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I mean, we always get on FaceTime, the three of us do, typically when one of us is getting ready or we're waking up in the morning. And we were on FaceTime the other day. And as I shared earlier, one of our daughters is 24. The other one is 25. One lives in New York. One lives in L.A. I live in southern Vermont.

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Is that the same thing as the reticular activating system?

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Okay.

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Okay. So the default mode network.

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So if you have negative self-talk, if you ruminate, if you are like, I'm never good enough, nothing works out for me, things like that don't happen to a person like me, I can never get it right. That is in the default mode.

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Can I ask you another question? Because one of the things that you said at the very, very beginning is you painted this gorgeous picture picture of the ability to leverage the remarkable power of your brain to help you get what you truly desire in life, to help you live in heart mode. And you said it's just about believing it.

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And part of the reason why we have trouble believing it is because of the default mode network and all of these stories you've repeated over and over and over again. Is that fair to say?

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And can we can reprogram or we can lay down a new track?

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And so just like you do with the people you care about, we get on FaceTime all the time and we're yapping away. And all of a sudden, one of my daughters is like, I'm just in this negative place right now. It's like nothing I do is enough. Everything that I put on my body doesn't look good. No matter how hard I'm working, I just am constantly trashing myself.

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Don't you just love Dr. Jim Doty? I freaking love him. I always feel smarter when I listen to him. And he just shared so much that I want to unpack it all with you. And I want to put it in the language that you and I have been using since we started this conversation.

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Because what Dr. Jim Doty just did as a neuroscientist and a neurosurgeon is he broke down absolutely every aspect of what I've been talking to you about. Did you catch that? but he put it in terms of the different networks and the functioning of your brain. And so I want to just highlight and repeat a couple things, okay?

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So as he explained the way that your mind worked, and he went through the mechanics of manifesting, which as he said, the same thing I said, this is not woo-woo, it's not fairy dust, this is hard science. This is intentionally embedding information in your brain. And by intentionally embedding information in your brain, you are activating certain aspects of your brain to work for you.

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And I'm gonna unpack all of this because he basically just explained why having projects is super important. because it activates the task positive network in your brain. He referred to it as a bloodhound. I called it a golden retriever. It's that instinct, that executive functioning, that focusing of your attention on something outside of you. That's a good thing.

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And then my other daughter chimed in, and I was horrified to hear that they were both kind of in this place where they're focused on the negative, where their thoughts are kind of turned back against them. And as we're having this conversation, it reminded me of a story that I've shared on this podcast and I've shared in some interviews that I've done.

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And you can train your brain using the method he just talked to us to be able to do it, which is how you're gonna train your brain to work for you. You're gonna get that bloodhound or that golden retriever to chase down what you want instead of turning itself at you. And he went through this process, and I'm gonna repeat it for you, whereby you can

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intentionally, through repetition, and by being intentional, you can encode a default way of thinking. And it could be anything. I'm going to give you an example from my own life. So I used to be a person that struggled a lot with anxiety. I used to see the negative. I used to be constantly worried. What if this happens? What if that happens? What if the other thing happens?

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And I don't think like that anymore. I have used the tools that we've been talking about to reprogram my brain to have a different default thinking, which is I always think either, well, what if this all works out? Because I don't know in a moment of worry whether it works out or not. So why not consider as your default, what if this works out?

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I also, as a default, have programmed into my mind, I believe that this moment is leading me somewhere that I'm meant to go. It's either teaching me something or it's giving me a skill or a lesson that I need. And I don't know why I need this, but at some point in the future, I believe that I'll look back on this moment and I'll know why this happened.

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It's a way to kind of have faith and this kind of trust and assurance in myself that to be able to face life's challenges. I have intentionally programmed that into my mind. How do you do it? You do it exactly as Dr. Doty just walked you through. He said, you take out a pencil, you write down what you wanna believe. I believe I'm capable of success. I believe I am worthy of love.

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I believe that the love of my life is around the corner. I believe that this moment is temporary and the future is brighter. I believe that I'm stronger than I think. You can write down anything you wanna believe about yourself. You can write down that I'm beautiful. You could write down that I'm working very hard and my hard work is going to pay off.

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And all I need to do is just keep my head down and keep being a kind person and working hard and things are going to work out. And Dr. Doty says, take out a pencil, write down the statement that you want to believe about yourself. After you write it down, you're going to read it to yourself. Then you're going to say it out loud. And what did he just teach us?

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That if you do this over and over, you wake up every day and you pick up the pencil and you write it down and you read it to yourself, then you read it out loud. Through repetition, you are intentionally embedding this belief about yourself. And he then explained to you, I mean, I think this is so exciting. the different parts of your brain networks that are activated.

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Number one, by writing it down, you're making it important. Number two, through the repetition, you're actually embedding the intention in your subconscious, right? What does that do? Well, remember when we talked about looking for hearts? It's the same thing. By telling yourself that you want to see a heart, you're making it salient. You're making it important.

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You're telling the reticular activity system that seeing hearts is important to you. Same thing with a positive attitude. Same thing with believing that things are going to work out for you. Isn't that kind of cool? So now the filter changes because you're embedding this. And then what happens? He talked about the focus and attention network. That's this filter.

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You know, I've been talking about the Let Them Theory book. And so you may have heard this story, but it's such an important and compelling story that it bears repeating. And so here's what happened. My 25-year-old daughter, Sawyer, and I wrote the Let Them Theory book together.

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That's you directing the supercomputer in your mind to filter out anything that is unrelated to this thing you want to believe. And for me, it's literally what if it all works out? It's this belief that if I just show up every day and I do my best and I'm a kind person and I just do the reps and put in the work, eventually things work out.

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And I do believe that because I have used this process to embed that belief. And then what happens is when you use the process, you make it important, Through repetition, you embed it in your mind. You then are changing the RAS, which is all about focus and attention. Now you're triggering what he called the task positive network. That's the bloodhound in your mind. I call it the golden retriever.

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Boom. It's now actively chasing down anything that is related to this thing that you want. That's how it works based on the science. And that also covers all of the things we've talked about so far. Having a project and the research about how that aims your brain at something rather than having your problem solving aimed at you. Number two, we talked about looking for hearts.

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And this is exactly what Dr. Doty is talking about when he's talking about embedding a belief and changing the filter and activating this task network to find things for you. Third, we've just talked about the neuroscience and the mechanics of manifesting and how you cement in new thinking and you program your brain to work for you.

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Fourth, let's jump into this one, because this is a simple suggestion for how you can put it all together, and this suggestion is called how you direct your thinking with one sentence. And what I love about this skill is this comes from another world-renowned medical doctor and one of the world's leading experts on the brain itself. I'm talking about none other than Dr. Daniel Amen.

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He has scanned 225,000 brains, including mine. He has scanned brains of patients from 155 countries. Not only that, but he's written 12 New York Times bestselling books on the brain and brain health. He is a psychiatrist for 40 years. He is the founder and chief executive officer of the Amen Brain Clinics, and he's also the founder of Change Your Brain Foundation, BrainMD, and the Amen University.

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And on the press tour, a ton of people have asked me, what was it like to work on a project of that magnitude, writing and researching a book with one of your kids? And it was incredible. I mean, it was absolutely incredible for a number of reasons to not only get to know her in a completely different way because I'm her mother and she's my daughter.

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This is a busy guy, which means he knows not only about brain health, he knows how to leverage the power of your brain. I wanted you to get to learn from him. This is something that he shared with me when he was on the Mel Robbins podcast. It's the fourth skill I want you to start practicing.

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It is one sentence that you can say in the morning and one sentence that you can say at night that leverages a everything that you have just learned from Dr. Jim Doty to embed a positive mindset. So let's take a listen and learn together from Dr. Daniel Amen. Check this out.

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Here's what I love about what Dr. Daniel Amen just shared with us. This is so simple. I'm just gonna repeat it. Every morning, I gotta look ahead at the day, I gotta activate the bloodhound, and I gotta look for things that are gonna make it a great day. And guess what happens with your brain? Your brain is so smart that it'll find whatever you're asking for.

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And so when you give it that project to look ahead and you unleash the bloodhound and the golden retriever, it's gonna find reasons that today is gonna be a great day. And then at night, as you lay your head down on the pillow and you say to your brain, well, what went well today? you just did the same thing again.

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And what I love about this simple sentence in the morning and at night is that it's not only a way to program your subconscious to reflect on the positive, it's a way to train your brain to direct it, to activate that task network that Dr. Doty was talking about, that bloodhound and the golden retriever in there to go find it. And the more that you prompt yourself

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And so we have the mother-daughter dynamic and we're very close, but we've always kind of had this friction. But having this project that we could both focus on and organize ourselves around was super cool because I got to experience her in a completely different way. And here's what happened.

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To see what went well or what's going to go great, the more you're going to see the good things that are happening that you currently don't. And I have found that this works beautifully in my life because there's a ton of great things that happen and they're small things, but we don't Look for them. And when you don't look for them, you don't see them.

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And when you don't see them, you miss what's actually happening in your life. And there's a lot of good, even when things are terrible, there's a lot of good that's happening in your life if you ask your brain to help you see it. And that's a simple way that you can do it. All right, that brings us to the final fifth thing. This fifth thing is literally just quieting your mind.

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You know, I think one of my biggest problems is at the end of the day, my brain has been so busy working or just running or thinking that if you really stop and think about it, how do you shut your brain down?

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Well, if you're a normal person, you probably either start watching TV or you pick up and you doom scroll with your phone or next thing you know, you might be pouring a drink to try to turn your brain off. I've certainly done that in the past. But what if there was a different option?

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What if you could just use something like the let them theory and understand that your thoughts kind of come and go, they rise and they fall? And what if you could just let the thoughts rise and not grip onto them? What if part of your wind down routine at the end of the day before your head hits the pillow and you say, what went well today, is you just let go your mind slowly quiet.

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Like, I just want you to really take this in for me because there's a lot of research around how mindfulness, which is not quieting of the mind, but it's really just kind of observing your thoughts without attaching yourself to them. How interesting. I'm still thinking about work. Oh, interesting. That news headline just popped in my mind. Oh, interesting.

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Now I'm thinking about picking up my phone. You just let the thoughts rise without giving them any weight. You know, one of my favorite meditations, I don't know who told me this, so I don't know who to credit, and it involves littering. So now I'm, of course, going to make myself wrong for doing this, but this is just visual. We're not actually doing this, is thinking about your thoughts and

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as they rise up, especially negative ones, something rises up, oh, I wish I would have said that, oh, that went well, that went bad, whatever, as if you are casting them on a piece of paper into a raging river and you just watch them float downstream. And I find that to be super effective because I'm just letting the thoughts rise without giving them weight and I'm watching them float away.

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And what's interesting is there's a brand new study about how effective this is. Mindfulness, just being mindful of the thoughts as they rise without attaching yourself to it. And this study was just published in the Journal of Mindfulness.

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So when we first started working together, I asked her if she would simply just do this research project about the let them theory because we had done a podcast episode on it. And there were all of these comments. It had gone crazy viral and really resonated with people around the world.

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It's research that comes out of Lawrence University and Goucher College that basically found that being present and practicing techniques where you just let your thoughts rise and fall they help you steer clear of negative thought loops. And that leads to a brighter and more positive outlook.

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They've actually found that if you're somebody that ruminates a lot, which is where you dwell on negative feelings and you dwell on what's going wrong, it can worsen symptoms of depression and you can stay stuck there. It's almost like when the dog goes number two, don't step in it. notice it, and walk past it. You can do the same things with your thoughts.

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And I find that the let them theory is super helpful when I just say to myself, just let the thoughts come, don't attach, and then let me remind myself I'm not my thoughts. And now you've got another let me part because you now understand that supercomputer in your brain. You understand that you also have the ability to give yourself a project, especially something creative.

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If you just occupy your hands and you occupy your mind with something that is creative or a project or some ball that you can chase down, as we've been discussing over and over, that's gonna help.

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Another thing that you can do is you can remind yourself to look for hearts, which activates that filter in your brain and reminds you that your mind is trying to help you see the things that are important to you. You have to remind your mind what's important to you. How do you do that? Remember the third skill, manifesting.

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Dr. Jim Doty walked us through how it works and how you can do it through repetition. Just write it down. Read it, say it out loud, repeat it. That's the process. You also learned about this trick from Dr. Daniel Amen. One sentence in the morning. Why is today gonna be a great day? Your mind is like a bloodhound or a golden retriever.

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If you direct it like throwing a ball, why is today going to be a great day? Your mind will chase down an answer for you. It's pretty cool when you start to really embrace what I'm telling you. And finally, let the thoughts rise, let the thoughts fall. Because you have more power than you believe.

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So I was like, hey, Sawyer, would you just dig into the comments on this podcast episode and the things that you're seeing that people are saying online about the things that I've been sharing, and then come back to me in a couple weeks with an analysis of what you're seeing. And I expected this to take like two weeks. Now, mind you, I'm very different than my daughter, Sawyer.

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It has been so liberating and empowering and exciting when I finally took all these tools and started to use them in my life. And I'm so excited to see what happens to you when you embrace these five simple skills and you start using them in your day-to-day life.

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And I'm certain here's what you're gonna find, and here's what the people that you share this episode are gonna find, that this is how you can take control of your mind. This is also how you let go of negative thoughts and you program in more positive default thoughts. And this is also how you redirect all of your mental energy to happiness, positivity, success, and self-transformation.

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And one more thing, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I am so excited for you because absolutely everything that you learned today, it works. It's simple to understand, it's simple to use. And I think you're gonna start feeling different and seeing the world and yourself differently

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really quickly like your brain is a super cool thing because it has the ability to change and you now know simple ways you can program it every single day to work for you and i can't wait to see what happens in your life when you do all righty i'll be waiting for you in the very next episode in fact i'm going to be waiting to welcome you into it the moment you hit play i'll see you there

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And every time you see a heart, here's what I want you to do. I'm going to take a sip of my water. What's it called? A Tiguan? What's it called? A Tiguan? What's it called?

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Oh, fuck. Yeah. Okay.

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Okay. Wow. Bummer. Why don't you... Like, you could write down anything that you want to believe about yourself. Can you hear them? We're good, do you think? Yeah. Okay, great. All right, great job, guys. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

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This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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I mean, I've got like this crazy artistic ADHD brain and Sawyer thinks in Excel spreadsheets. Before working for me and working with me, she worked at a huge cybersecurity firm that is in 44 countries and was in like the digital marketing and marketing tech side of that business. And so here she is taking on this research project for me on the side.

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And I'm expecting this thing to take two or three weeks. I'm expecting the result to be like a briefing that is going to be a couple pages long. She hands me, 36 hours later, a 27-page... Like, I don't even know how to describe the way this thing was organized. It was like columns with color-coded tabs and links to the source material. And she had a two-page synopsis of...

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What do you do when it feels like your mind has actually turned against you? I know what that feels like because I lived in that negative place for decades in my life. I was smiling on the outside, but on the inside, doom and gloom. No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't do anything right. So when I heard my 24-year-old daughter trapped there, like it broke my heart.

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her analysis of all of the sentiment online, and she had identified all these things that needed further research. I mean, it was jaw-dropping. My brain just doesn't work like that. My brain is like letting a box full of mice loose in your kitchen. Everything scatters in different directions. This was a level of organization and mental horsepower that I actually didn't know she had.

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I'm not sitting here saying she's dumb. I just didn't understand that this was how her brain worked. And when I saw this work product from her generated in 36 hours, I was not only dumbfounded at just how intelligent she is and how differently her brain works, I had this heartbreaking realization. As I looked at the 27 pages, I thought to myself, oh my God, I now know why she's so hard on herself.

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Because if she doesn't have a project to aim this supercomputer at, she aims it at herself. And I just want that to sit in with you for a minute. That if you have this supercomputer, and you do, you have a supercomputer between your ears. It is designed to solve problems. It is designed to spot patterns. It is designed to learn new things. It is designed to keep you safe.

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It is designed to analyze things. It is designed to create and to connect and to constantly be growing. That's what your brain is doing. And it's doing an incredible job because if you're listening to this and you're able to hear these words and absorb this information or you're watching me on YouTube right now, your supercomputer is engaged. It is processing information.

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It is filing it away in your brain. There are neural pathways connecting and firing and wiring together. Like it is doing its thing. It's keeping you breathing. It's keeping your body temperature in a certain place all while you're doing this. And that's just like a scratch to the surface of what that supercomputer is doing. But I want you to really stop and consider what I'm saying.

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If you have this massive horsepower between your ears, which you do, and you're not aiming it at something like a big project or something that's important or something that's positive, it's true, isn't it? that your brain aims itself back at you. And when this happened with my daughter and I had this realization, it was as if I was meeting her for the first time.

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I finally understood her at a level that I had never understood her as her mother. And it even revealed a little bit about why I'm hard on myself. I mean, I just described my brain is working like taking a box of mice and letting it loose in your kitchen and everything scatters everywhere.

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But I have absolutely had those moments, and I know you have too, where you are so focused on something that you're enjoying. Like it might be something like gardening. It might be that you're a great video gamer and so you get lost in the moment. It might be when you've played sports or you're playing an instrument or it might be when you're out on a hike and you're just so hyper-present. Why?

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You can get lost in the flow of focus because you're in the present moment because your supercomputer in your mind is aimed at something outside of you.

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But isn't it true that in those moments where you feel consumed with negativity or you're beating yourself up or you're constantly telling yourself it's never enough or you're seeing nothing but the negative when you look in the mirror, you've just taken all that horsepower that is designed to create and laugh and grow and solve problems and you just aimed it right at you.

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And then our other daughter is chiming in. Oh my God, I do the same thing. And I'm thinking, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to let the two of you stay there. I'm not going to let you waste decades of your life trashing yourself. And there's two reasons why I want to talk to you about this today. First of all, it feels awful when you talk to yourself in a way that just brings you down.

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And so it got me thinking, If you have a brain that is designed to do all these incredible things, solve problems, grow, learn, laugh, create, be present, build, like all these amazing things, how is it that you and I can take that truth? Because I think you're with me. I can kind of feel you with me like, oh my God, I've never thought about it that way. It's true, Mel.

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If I'm engaged in something, I'm not beating myself up. If I'm working on a project that I'm truly focused on, I don't have time to trash my appearance, huh, never thought about it that way. That this supercomputer can be used for good, and if I'm not using it for good, holy cow, it feels kind of bad because it just aims it right back at me.

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And just in case, before I move on to these five simple things, because what I'm going to do is I'm going to teach you today. It took me far too long to learn this. I wish they taught this in schools. I wish they taught this in elementary school. That's how simple I'm going to make the science today.

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There are five simple things that you can do, and you can start doing them as I'm explaining them to you. You can do these things as soon as this episode is over. These are so simple that you can make them part of your day-to-day life. These are ways for you to take control of your mind, that supercomputer in your brain.

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These are ways for you to let go of the negative thoughts, which is really what happens when your brain directs itself back at you, right? And third, we're going to talk about how do you redirect that power of your mind and aim it at something that energizes you?

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How do you take all that mental energy and instead of aiming it at yourself, you actually aim it at something that creates happiness and success and more positivity and self-transformation? That's what's available to you. And I didn't understand any of this until several years ago. And so the second I'm done recording this, I'm sharing this with my two daughters.

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And before we jump into the first skill, okay? And I've already kind of alluded to it. But before we jump into the first skill, I want to bring in one more visual example. Because I personally find that whenever you talk about the mind or thinking or mindset...

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it so quickly becomes fuzzy and too intellectual and too conceptual that I lose interest and I don't know what the hell people are talking about. So I like things that are visual because it helps my brain, the little mice that are running around, to just anchor on something.

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So we've already talked about the supercomputer and the fact that you've got this brain between your ears that is designed to learn patterns. It's designed to grow. It's designed to fire and wire information together and program it in your mind. It's designed to filter the world. It's actually designed to help you get more of what you want. And we're going to talk more about that in a little bit.

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And that's a cool thing. Have you ever in your life had the chance to spend time with like a golden retriever or a Labrador? You know, one of these dogs that from the moment they come into this world as a puppy, there is something hardwired in their DNA to just fetch.

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You throw a ball and you don't even have to train a Labrador or a golden retriever or some of these other kind of hunting breeds, I guess they call them. They will just... Go right after that ball that you throw, bring it right back. You throw it again, they bring it right back. It's like they are programmed to chase down a ball that you throw. They are programmed to chase it down and to retrieve.

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And second, your brain is a supercomputer. Your brain can help you get what you want if you know how to use it correctly. And nobody teaches you this stuff. At least nobody taught me. So that's why you and I are going to talk about this today. I'm going to teach you the five simple things that help me and that are going to help you let go of the negative thoughts.

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Guess what? Your brain is designed to do the exact same thing. I'm going to say that again. Your brain is like a Labrador retriever or a golden retriever. It is hardwired to actually chase down something that you directed at.

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And so I love this visual because the first thing that I'm going to talk about today of the five things that I'm going to teach you is one of the things that helps you get out of that negative rut where your brain is aimed at you and you start trashing yourself down, right, is to actually give your brain something to chase down and focus on.

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Think about it like you need a project or think about like the project is the ball. So with a dog that loves to chase a ball, you take that ball, you throw it in whatever direction, that dog forgets that you exist. That dog is maniacally focused on that ball.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm just sitting here trying to find the words to explain the conversation that I just had that you're about to listen to. I'm blown away. You're about to meet somebody who just changed my life, and there is no doubt in my mind that everything that you're about to learn will forever change you as a person.

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You can learn more about Celebrity Cruises at celebritycruises.com. Visit celebrity.com for details, ships registry, Malta, and Ecuador. Thank you so much for having me. if you're a brand new listener. And I suspect there's gonna be a lot of brand new listeners around the world that come in through this particular episode because I know you're gonna share this.

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So what is available? to the person who's listening to you right now. And if you could speak directly to them, whether they are a parent who has a child like just spiraling from an eating disorder or spiraling with behavior issues at schools and they're getting kicked out and they're lost or You have somebody in your life that's spiraling with addiction.

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What do you want to say to that person directly about what's available to them in this conversation?

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The way you just explained that makes me see it completely differently.

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You were talking about skills. Can you just list off some of the skills that people that we may be dealing with in our families or at work or in life are missing that create challenging behavior?

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And you know what else I just kind of got as I'm listening to you? I need to manage my face because I think I look like I'm in a state of shock the entire time I'm listening to you. So I'm like, where were you 30 years ago? You're here now, and we're all going to learn from you now, is that as you were explaining the two-year-old,

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Then if you don't have the language and communication skills, it would be completely age appropriate and normal for you to exhibit challenging behavior because you don't have the language and communication skills to express what you need.

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That's how incredible what you're about to learn is going to be. And so welcome, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. You have picked a winner to jump into the Mel Robbins Podcast. And you know what it tells me? It tells me that you're the type of person who values your time. and that you're also interested in learning about ways that you can improve your life and your relationships.

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Yeah.

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Wow. The opportunity for all of us to look at any challenging behavior or any frustrating or scary dynamic with another human being as a skill issue is incredible. You've covered one of the five skills and that was communication and language.

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Right. And then also what's confounding, whether you have a child who's a gamer or you have a young adult in your life or a significant other who's a gamer, you look at the fact that they can focus there. Yes. And then you're like, why the hell can't you pick up your shoes or pay attention or keep a job?

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Oh my God.

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See, I have both- And I'm exhibiting it in the middle of this interview.

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Well, Dr. Ablon, my memory not working right now.

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And today, you're gonna leave a changed person. I know I am. I have been following the work of the extraordinary Dr. Stuart Ablon for years, and I am so thrilled that we finally have him here today so that you and I can learn from him, we can grow, we can become better people, and we can use his research-backed approach to help us deal with the challenging people in our life.

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Yep. Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Because, and I just want to make sure we unpack this because I think this is really important because a lot of us get in this loop, especially with kids or even with people in our lives that are adults where you literally like, let's give an example because I'm thinking about like a kid who is not studying at school and you start hammering them.

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You got to get more motivated, get your grades up or else you're going to get on academic probation and then you're going to get kicked out. Well, if you have poor impulse control, you're going to go party all weekend or you're going to blow off class because you don't have the ability to think about the fact that this is going to happen.

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And then when it happens, it's not really that motivating because you still don't have the impulse control to think about the consequences if you don't get your act together to get back into school.

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And that's why it's so frustrating to the rest of us Because you can see the consequences and you're like, why is this idiot not seeing what's about to happen? Do they not care about their family or their life or their future or my feelings or all that? So I can see how not seeing impulse control as a skill

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Now, Dr. Stuart Ablon is an award-winning psychologist. He has over 30 years of experience, and he is an expert on challenging behavior. He's also the founder and director of Think Kids, which is a program in the Department of Psychiatry at Mass General Hospital. He's a professor at Harvard Medical School, and he started all of his work and research

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that could be developed creates this real, like, almost toxic situation between you and another person where you just lose your power, they lose theirs, you're now in this weird standoff, and it spirals.

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Well, and what you know that I think would be helpful for the person listening to hear and understand is that the majority of people that end up in jail actually are missing these skills or have a learning disability or have impulse control issues. So it is not ever... That you're dealing with a, quote, bad human being.

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You're dealing with somebody who would do well if they can, and they didn't have the conditions or the skill building that would have helped them.

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Yeah. Yeah, and it makes it heartbreaking. And that's why I'm thrilled that you're here because I think seeing these five skills that are things that anybody can learn, but when you're missing it, creates challenging behavior. This is the heart of what we're talking about because it allows you to approach any dynamic with any human being in a very different way. You got it.

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Dr. Avalon, I have so many more questions. There's so much I want to dig into with you. I need to take a short pause to hear a word from our amazing sponsors. While you're listening to our sponsors, share this with people in your life. This information, the wisdom, the research that Dr. Avalon is teaching you and me today, it will change your life.

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I can already feel things shifting inside me and I'm sure you can too. So take a moment, share this with somebody and don't go anywhere because Dr. Avalon has so much more to teach us and we're going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to spend time together with the amazing Dr. Stuart Ablon.

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He's teaching us how to help people change in our lives and how to deal with challenging behavior by first understanding the source of it. So Dr. Ablon, what is skill number four?

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And what is flexible thinking?

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with children, but has found that everything that he's learned about dealing with somebody who's exhibiting challenging behavior, you know, they're frustrating you or you're deeply worried about them, that everything that you're about to learn applies to any relationship. It applies to adults. It applies to coworkers. It applies to your marriage. You're going to love this.

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What's interesting is, I don't know if as you're listening to Dr. Ablon, you're like, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me. I'm checking all five and I'm missing all of them. But what's interesting to me is that I can say that I definitely default to that all or none. Like things are absolutely fabulous or they're horrendous or it's going to be amazing or this is the worst.

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My husband and kids often feel like they're on this emotional roller coaster with me because they're not quite sure. Are we going to get the Mel who's at level 100? Are we going to get her at zero? And I work at this. So I hear what you're saying as a skill. Like I have to practice these tools of catching my own thinking. Yes. And wanting to have a mindset that is more flexible.

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And over time, I've absolutely become way more flexible.

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Absolutely. This is so empowering. What is the fifth?

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And I love the title of his new bestselling book, Changeable, The Surprising Science Behind Helping Anyone Change. And that's what the conversation is all about today. How you can use science to help anyone in your life, no matter how challenging or scary the situation might be. Yes, you can help them change. Dr. Ablon, it is such an honor to meet you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

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And I can also think of things like, especially in the social behavior, like if you're somebody that just doesn't have the skill of the cues. Yes. You're the awkward kid or the awkward person at work that just stands a little too close to everybody.

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Or like close talker, or you follow somebody too closely into the bathroom and you just don't know. Yes. That that then becomes its own thing that makes you start to wonder, why don't I have friends? And why do I feel like I don't belong here?

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And so how does missing those skills create this dynamic that is challenging for us with other people?

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Please, because I think where we're going now is, especially if you think about it from a parenting context, that when you get frustrated, you then discipline and you punish and you scream or yell or timeouts or whatever it may be. Yeah. And what is the impact if we're dealing with a skill situation?

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Where I want to start is, could you just tell the person listening what they could experience in their life that would be different if they really take to heart everything that you're about to share with us and teach us today?

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We call that a smucker's grandparent. You know how they used to put them on TV?

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Yes, with the smucker's jam. Yeah.

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I'd love to have you talk a little bit about That sentiment that some parents have or some people have that's like, well, you know, nobody talked to me about that and I turned out okay. Like how you address that sort of generational pattern and cynicism that has been passed down through families and in our society.

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I'm really glad that you said that because when you go back to the five things that are skills that are missing if somebody is exhibiting challenging behavior and now you're connecting the dots to any form of trauma is interfering with your ability to have those five skills, whether you're talking about racism or poverty or having a parent going through a struggle or financial hardship or

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a parent that's absent or mental illness or abuse, like all of these things.

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Impact your ability to develop these skills, which then impact the behavior that then becomes seen by the outside world as challenging.

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So, Dr. Avalon, I'm totally bought in. Give me the step-by-step.

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So you've got somebody in your life.

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that has a problem. And it could be anything from somebody who has a mental health issue and is not taking their meds or using their tools. It could be somebody who is not looking for a job. It could be a kid who is oppositional.

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Okay.

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I'm in. This may seem like a hard question, but in the 30 years of clinical psychology experience and being the founder of the Think Kids program at Mass General Hospital, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you have from your career truly working with parents and kids specifically?

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Okay, so plan A is I'm getting them out of bed.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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You have to choose the approach and choose it powerfully.

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Got it. OK, this is so I just want to make sure that as you're listening, you get step one is you're going to list out everything that's frustrating you. And then you're going to choose between these three plans.

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Got it, okay.

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You know what I love about this conversation is that You know, all of this work that I'm doing about saying let them and then saying let me. When you say let them, you're choosing plan C. But then when you say the second part, which is let me, you come back to your work, which is let me actually follow what works when I'm ready to do it.

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Because you're recognizing the way you've been doing it isn't working. It's just backfiring. And this is out of your control at the moment. And so you're choosing not to stress yourself out about it.

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So let's say you, and again, I think what's fascinating to continue to remind you as you're listening is that this applies for any situation, whether you can't get your kid out of bed or whether you have somebody spiraling with an eating disorder who is refusing treatment.

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Dr. Avalon, I wish I knew this 30 years ago. And I need to take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. I'm going to give you a chance to just kind of let all of that sink in. And of course, please share this with people that you care about and don't go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you with Dr. Avalon and so much more to unpack with you after a short break.

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Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins today. You and I are getting to learn from the extraordinary Dr. Stuart Ablon from Mass General Hospital. He's the founder of Think Kids. And Dr. Ablon, let's just jump right back in.

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So let's say you're in a really challenging situation with somebody. Whether I was in a situation with my husband who was struggling with depression, did not want to seek treatment. I have a number of friends that are dealing with situations with adult kids who are struggling with mental health or struggling with an eating disorder, also mental health. And it's a wildly frustrating dynamic.

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It will change how you think about relationships, how you think about yourself. It'll change how you parent, how you show up at work. I mean, this is one of those conversations that sticks with you for a lifetime. Dr. Stuart Ablon, who has been a clinical psychologist for over 30 years practicing at Mass General Hospital here in Boston,

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And when you say challenging behavior.

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So how do we do that?

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Okay.

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What do you put in that bucket?

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I don't know who said this, but when I heard this, I was like, oh, I think I understand what empathy, especially as a parent, but also truly is. in any relationship means. They said, it's not your child's job to help you understand them.

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It's your job to figure out who they are.

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No, it doesn't.

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Yeah.

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Well, thank God, because we all need to know how to do this, because I don't think any of us really, I think we do it performatively. Yes. Where we want to try to understand, but we don't know how to step into someone else's shoes.

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And really attempt to understand what it's like being them.

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And what would you tell the person who's listening right now who's either overwhelmed or burnt out or just tired of dealing with a person or a particular issue in their life? And they're just like, is this ever going to end? Is this ever going to get better?

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Okay.

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Now you had your session with Dr. Adlon and now you're going to come check the boxes and then drag me back to therapy.

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That is so disarming. Like, even as I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of somebody. Yeah. Because what you've probably experienced is the tension and the pressure and the judgment and the standoff and the only way that you can feel some semblance of control over your life is to resist what somebody's trying to make you do.

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Just to recap to make sure I'm tracking. The first thing is for you to really sit down and take a look at what is the specific dynamic and when does it happen that is bothering you. And then you have to make a conscious decision about whether you're going to go with plan A, which is imposing what you want, which we know doesn't work.

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Plan B, which is the kind of collaborative approach based in the research and the neuroscience and all of the work that you do, which is about you activating this helping relationship.

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Or there's plan C, which is just use the let them theory and make a decision and say, let them. And I'm going to say, let me come back to this when I'm ready to follow Dr. Ablon's approach. And now we're at the part where you have sat down and you have really led with empathy. Yep. And we have asked the open-ended questions.

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I forgot the second part because I'm missing skill number two, where you have the ability to have a working memory. So I'm going to be in there as I'm listening going, one, two, three. Okay. So what's the next step?

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Now, let me ask a question about this, though, because you've just reassured them you're not doing anything. So should you do it in that conversation or how do you set this up so it doesn't feel like a bait and switch?

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You know what? I just had a huge breakthrough. This is one of the skills that I need because I think whenever I get worried or frustrated, I default immediately to problem solving mode.

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And that creates a tremendous number of problems in my life because I'm either running people over Or I'm frustrated because I see a solution that I think works, but now somebody feels like they're being minimized or micromanaged. Yep.

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Well, and also mine. And also when you got the one hand up, it looks like you're about to get smacked. So no, I'm serious. Like the visual is really good because if you think about it, like the whole three-step approach is about getting their worries and their experience on the table and your worries, but zero solution right now.

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And then you're working- Just like, let's talk about what we're both concerned about.

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Oh, adult, child, both. That's why. So it's adult, both, child. I got it. That's why there's three plans. You're a genius.

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Well, because you got to keep yourself-

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And I think that's a critical thing here is it's one thing to understand somebody. It's a completely different way to go through life and want to actually understand what somebody's going through and where they're coming from. Yes.

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Let's walk through that one because I think that's a huge concern. I was talking to somebody who is actually very worried about their father. So he's our age and his father is now retired.

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On his iPad all day, goes to bed with it.

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And his mom is upset about it. I mean, there's a real addiction there.

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And he's very concerned. He doesn't know how to address it. And so I think it's probably the same conversation, whether you're talking to a 10-year-old or you're talking to an 80-year-old.

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Well, that's cool. So it sounds like what we're going to learn from you today is an entirely different way to look at and approach a situation where someone's pissing you off.

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Well, we're going to link to it in the notes of this episode because I'm sure people are really interested in that.

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I'm so excited to try this. I am curious what you're seeing in your work when it comes to young adults, because it seems, at least maybe it's just what my friends and I are talking about, but it seems like there's a tremendous amount of challenges with parenting kids in their late teens and into their 20s. Yes.

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How do you think about this in terms of the challenging dynamics that you're seeing?

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Which is you're doing this.

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And what is your advice about the financial piece? Because I think it's a very tricky dynamic. Yes. Because the fact is, you know, when I look at the city of Boston where we're sitting right now, I saw a statistic that housing prices have gone up 78% in three years here. No, it's absurd. It's absurd.

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And, you know, I think about when I was a young lawyer working at Legal Aid, my parents helped me pay rent. I couldn't afford the rent and groceries. Yes. But then you get into this dynamic where you might be helping your kid, but then you see them going out and you see them buying things. And then you start to have opinions about how they're using their money.

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And I see it with so many of our friends. We've experienced this in our family where you want to help if you can. Yeah. Yes. And that in and of itself is a wonderful place to be in.

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No. And you also start to feel like I'm contributing to the, quote, lack of motivation. But if we go all the way back to the beginning where you said kids do well if they can. Yeah, it's not a lack of motivation. What is it?

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It's a lack of skills to deal with the new world.

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One family is going to say- My concern is you're going to never get your act together and I'm going to be paying for your ass the rest of your life. So we might rephrase that slightly. Okay, slightly. This is not a safe place, Doug.

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Well, how do we say, how do you say it?

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Because I'm worried. I'm worried about you finding your way. I'm worried about you being, now I'm about to get upset. I'm worried about you being happy.

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I'm worried about you like feeling successful.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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I love this. Thank you for also painting the landscape against which we're actually living right now and understanding that it is very different than when we were in our 20s or our teens or our 30s. Like a completely different world that impacts you and the five skills that you've been talking about. And one of the things that I love about your work is that it feels as though

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Following everything that you've taught us today gives you the ability to change the way things have always been in your family. And I look at a lot of the incredible research that's been done around trauma and trauma the kind of takeaways that people can only give you what they have to give. People just repeat the things that are done to them.

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And I wanted to share something with you because I found it to be so extraordinarily powerful. And it was an appearance that Des Bryant, who is a former NFL player who played for eight seasons for the Cowboys, he was on this podcast that I personally love called The Pivot. And he had talked about how he had a really difficult upbringing. His mom was a teen mom. His dad wasn't around.

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And that he's really focused on trying to give his kids the support that he didn't get as a kid. And so he has this quote in his phone. And he pulled it out on the podcast and read it. And just, it was so emotional. And I want to share it with you and just get your thoughts.

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Dr. Stuart Ablon, what are your parting words?

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Oh, I just love you. I just love you. I am so happy you're here. Thank you for sharing your work. Thank you for doing your work. I'm excited because I feel like I'm going to be a better parent and a better spouse and a better colleague and a better human being because of you. I can't wait to have you back. And I know that this is going to be shared all around the world.

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And I really hope, my wish for you...

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um as you've been listening is that you listen to this with the people that you care about that's my hope and uh one more thing in case no one else tells you i wanted to be sure to tell you that i love you i believe in you and i believe in your ability to create a better life and you and i just got the road map to doing that with other people and with ourselves and i cannot wait to see what happens when you use it alrighty i'll be waiting for you in the next episode i'll see you there

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Well, what I immediately think about, and I'm sure we're going to unpack this in great detail, is I think about situations in my life, whether it's dealing with our son Oakley when he was in the fourth grade and we were just figuring out that he had dyslexia and ADHD and he was super lonely and felt like an outsider and we were trying to help. but everything was a standoff and a fight.

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Love, love, love. All right. All right.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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All right. Dr. Stewart, Albon. I already said it wrong. Jesus. Here goes the dyslexia.

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How do you say it?

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Avalon. You got it. I think I was going to say Avalon.

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This is what I mean. Is this too long? Because my husband was like, this damn cat. And I'm like, Chris, he can't tell you that he's sad. Yes. Because he's only doing it in front of Oakley's door, which is shut.

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So what is step two?

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Oh, okay.

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You're so good. I do. Oh my God. The whole time I'm trying to be present, I'm like, we should write a children's book together. We should do this. Let's go on tour. Ha ha ha. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

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I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher. Hey, thanks for sticking around for this bonus segment about the importance of breaking out of your routine.

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Has it ever occurred to you that not taking a break and working yourself into the ground, that that has become your new routine? That's a terrible routine. And I don't want you to go through life like that, and neither does the sponsor of this special bonus segment, Celebrity Cruises. They asked me to talk to you about breaking out of this routine where all you do is work.

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And this is a very important topic because if you don't learn how to take breaks and step away, then you're going to sail through your life and get to the end of it and realize you never actually did anything that made you happy. And we're not going to let that happen.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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You have to make it part of your new routine to get away, to take breaks, and dare I say, plan things that make you happy and that allow you to enjoy yourself. And speaking of enjoying yourself, before we jump into this whole topic about how work can become your routine and how you got to break out of it, I want to tell you a little bit about our sponsor, Celebrity Cruises.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Our friends at Celebrity Cruises go to nearly 300 incredible destinations across seven continents. I mean, just picture yourself soaking up the rich history and vibrant culture of Europe. That's breaking out of your routine right now. Or getting lost in the wild beauty of Alaska. Or imagine, oh my gosh, stretching out on the white pinky sands in the beaches of the Caribbean and the ships.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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They aren't just a way to get somewhere. They're destinations in and of themselves. And it makes it so easy to break out of your routine from the rooms to the food to the entertainment. There's something amazing around every corner. And you know what? Maybe that's all your life is missing. You're just so caught up in work, work, work or school, school, school.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Or when another situation, my husband, was going through a really bad bout of depression and I wanted to help, but I just couldn't find a way in. And I can think about challenging people in my extended family where I'm like, I'd like to help you be a better person because you piss me off and annoy me, but where it almost feels like a deadlock in terms of the dynamic.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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You can't even see what's right around the corner. I lived years of my life like that, never taking vacation, too tired, too this, too that. You deserve to break free from this trap. And, you know, I want to add something to the conversation because I found this survey that kind of blew my mind.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Did you know that more than half of the people surveyed made a life-changing decision while they were on vacation? In fact, I have made all of my major life decisions that way. I have decided to quit a job. I've decided to sell a house. I have decided that I'm going to go to therapy. When?

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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When I'm on a beach or when I'm in the mountains or when I'm out on a ship at sea, staring at the endless, beautiful horizon. Why does that happen? Because a change in your environment, what does it do? It breaks your routine, which does what? It gives you a completely different change in your perspective. It's like the fresh wind of confidence blows in.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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And that's available to you the moment you A, wake up and realize, I got to break this work routine I'm in. And you B, plan a trip to go somewhere. Because if you just keep doing what you've always done, you're going to keep feeling like you always feel, period. Plan a trip. Pull out that calendar and find the third week of some month that you could just say, that's mine right there.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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I dare you to do it. And I want to do a big shout out again to Celebrity Cruises for saying, hey, I would love to sponsor a segment on this, Mel. Could you do a bonus segment and just help people shake things up and remind everybody of how important that is? And Celebrity Cruises, they offer travel that will push you out of your comfort zone in the best way. It'll make you feel so alive.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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I mean, just imagine the perfect balance of a smaller, intimate ship with all the incredible options of a larger one. World-class restaurants, endless entertainment, gorgeous elevated rooms. Celebrity Cruises will help you get out of your routine and into something extraordinary. Learn more at CelebrityCruises.com. Visit Celebrity.com for details, ships registry, Malta, and Ecuador.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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And it's as if they don't want help and you don't know what to do. And so are you saying it's possible for us to change our approach and that changes what happens?

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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just came in here and taught me some of the most important things that I have ever learned in my life. I cannot wait for you to hear this. I cannot wait for you to share this with the people that you love. And it is my absolute honor to share it with you. If you're kind of in one of those modes where you're just like tired of your day-to-day life, it's like the same old, same old.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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I love this. And what I really want to make sure that I highlight as you're listening is that sentence, kids do well if they can. And adults do well if they can. And I am so... I guess, hopeful. And I feel better knowing that we're starting from a position based on 30 years of research where you've seen over and over and over again, everybody wants to do better.

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And if you provide the right conditions, they can get better.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Yes.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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But that's not what's normally standing in someone's way, is it? I think that's where it's going.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Please don't. If you're watching this podcast on YouTube, you're seeing my mouth slowly open wider and wider as my jaw is hitting the ground because this is the simplest explanation for and the most empowering and encouraging explanation I have ever heard.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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What if I told you that's a good thing? Because it means you're ready to make a change. And in a special bonus segment at the very end of the episode, I'm going to show you some research-backed ways to break out of a rut. And I want to thank our sponsor, Celebrity Cruises, for bringing me the opportunity to be able to talk to you about this.

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for how to change the way you look at other people in your life, whether like me, you're a boss and you're trying to motivate your team or you're a parent like we both are and you're trying to motivate your kids or you're dating somebody and you're like, boy, I wish you'd take better care of yourself and you're trying to motivate them. And you jump so quickly into

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To the judgment and the frustration or the, and I'm focusing on frustration and people's behavior that pisses you off because it feels accessible and lighter because it can quickly go to the serious stuff where somebody's really struggling. and you feel like super hopeless, like that becomes very like scary to think about, but it's going to be the exact same model.

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Because we're starting in the exact same place with either kids or adults, which is kids do well if they can. And if you start there, instead of judging a lack of willpower or discipline or motivation, you go, okay, well, what are the conditions for doing well?

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What, have you been in the car rides with me and my kids or at the kitchen? Dr. Avalon, come on now.

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Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Now, I see you brought something.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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What is that letter that you have there?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Harvard Psychologist Shares 6 Words That Will Change Your Family

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Which, what does that mean?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited you're here because today you and I are going to dig into a topic that has been on your mind. This topic is stressing you out, and I know this because you've been flooding the inbox at melrobbins.com telling me that you feel like you're behind in life.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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The amount of change that has happened when it comes to careers, when it comes to the cost of living, when it comes to the way that people work now is mesmerizing. And so the expectation that you should, quote, have it figured out in your 20s is not only a joke, it's dangerous.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And so as you hear me share the reality of what you're facing in your 20s and why the 20s is not when you're supposed to figure your life out, No, if you're feeling lost in your 20s, you're doing your 20s correctly. Because your 20s is not the decade of figuring things out, especially in your career. The 20s is a decade of possibility. That's what the 20s are.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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I want to read to you a message from Mimi, who is a listener of this podcast. And she wrote in to MelRobbins.com. Hey, Mel, I'm 25, lost, jobless, and I regret the degree I spent four years on. It feels too late to pursue something meaningful like med or law school. How do I break out of this rut and stop comparing myself to those who had a clear path from a young age?

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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First of all, this notion that you're too late to apply to med school is a lie. You can apply to med school at the age of 80. There is no age limit for applying to medical school. Even if you didn't do a pre-med major, you can do a post-bac pre-med program and then apply to law school.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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There are people right now that are listening around the world that applied to law school in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. So stop putting that pressure on yourself that there was some time that you were supposed to do it, and now you're, quote, late. No, you're not. You're figuring your life out. Your 20s is a time that is full of possibility.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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So before I talk about how I want you to reframe your mindset to possibility and really embrace that in your 20s, I don't want you to have things figured out. In your 20s, I want you to be exploring and figuring out who you are and what you like. And if by the age of 25, you have woken up and realized, oh my gosh, I really do feel this call to become a doctor. Great. Go explore it. Great.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Check out the possibility. Great. And for those of you who are listening, who are not in your 20s, I really need you to understand something. Being a 20-year-old today, is not the experience that you had in your 20s.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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The facts that I'm gonna share, the simple mindset reframes that I want you and everyone that you love to adopt based on the decade that you're in right now, the mindset that you need for your 20s or 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s and beyond, This is a mindset that is going to set you free and help you take control of where you are in your life right now.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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The statistics that I'm about to read to you are so sobering, and it's important for all of us, whether you're the parent or the aunt or the uncle of a 20-something, or whether you're the older brother or sister of a 20-something, or if you're a 20-something and you're beating yourself up or you're thinking you gotta have it all figured out, I really want you to hear this because it's gonna validate this sense of feeling lost

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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The average 20-year-old today is under so much stress and pressure and chaos right now, and it's not pressure and stress and chaos that existed five or six years ago. It's just changed. And we sit here and we look at 20-somethings and we're like, oh, they're weak or addicted to social media or all anxious or this or the other thing.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Have you stopped to consider what it's like to be a 20-something today? That first of all, five or six years ago, you went into an office, work was very predictable. You kind of knew what it was going to look like when you graduated from high school or college and you started like going into a company and commuting. That's not what work is today. Nothing is stable. It's all hybrid. It's 24-7.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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In fact, Dell did some research. Did you know that 85% of jobs that are going to be around in the next 10 years haven't been created yet? Homeownership is out of reach. The generational wealth gap is absolutely massive. Nearly 10 million people right now are falling behind in their student loans. That's $250 billion worth of debt that is past due. The world is in chaos.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And most 20-somethings have parents that lived in a very predictable, stable economy. They went to a corporate job. They reported to the office. They had a network of friends at work. That's not the typical 20-year-old experience. They're now in the middle of a recession and hybrid work. The world is shifting. The landscape is shifting. People are all over the place and scattered.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Nothing is as it was even six years ago. And it's time to wake up and recognize that if you feel lost, I'm not surprised. I would too. In fact, I felt lost in my 20s because I didn't know what I wanted to do yet. I bounced from one thing to the other and I wasn't dealing with half the stuff that you're dealing with.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Not going into work consistently, not having like a really core group of friends at work, not feeling like there's something that you can count on in terms of predictability, not quite knowing what industry to go into because AI is here and things are changing. this is exactly how you should feel.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And so if you're feeling lost right now, if you have not figured out your career, good, you're doing your 20s correctly. There's nothing wrong with you. It's a perfectly normal response to the decade that you're in based on the moment in history that you're in. And for those of us that have 20-somethings that we want to support, I think showing up with a

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based on the facts on how difficult this is to navigate, and none of us have experience with this, so we can't exactly help them based on our own life experience because we're in the middle of this too, feeling lost is to be expected, which is why shifting your mindset from this ridiculous social clock expectation that you should have it all figured out yet to shifting your mind to, oh,

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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I'm basically in a decade of possibility. I'm not supposed to have it figured out. I'm supposed to be exploring. And one thing that you do have on your side that I want to point out is that because you're digitally native and because all of the jobs that are coming are going to have to do with being online and technology and AI, one of the best things that you can do is double down on

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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on learning AI, on leaning into tech, on embracing the fact that it is a skill to be digitally native. It is a skill to be able to communicate the way that you do. This is not a deficit. It's an asset. Embracing that because it's going to be a part of any single career path that you choose. But hear me loud and clear.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Get rid of the checklist that you have to have your career figured out in your 20s. In fact, think about your friend Mel Robbins. In my 20s, I had approximately 11 job changes. Uh-huh. I graduated from law school. I hated law school. I then went and was a public defender. I liked that job. I did that for a couple of years. Then I bounced to a large law firm. Hated that job.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Then I quit that job after a year. Then I went not to one startup, not to two startups. I went to three startups in three years. Then I studied to be a life coach. Then I invested in a little tiny paint-your-own-pottery business. Then I tried a little radio. Like I bounced from one thing to the other. So the idea that you're supposed to have it figure out, complete garbage.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Before we dive in, I want you to know you got to stick around until a bonus segment after the bloopers. It's all about reframing, refocusing, and reprioritizing so you can actually reach your goals in 2025. And it's all thanks to our friends at Walmart Plus, the membership that makes life easier by saving you time and money with free delivery and so much more.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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In fact, you may be the kind of person like me that actually needs to explore. And you need to bounce from one thing to another to figure out what you like, because it's how something feels that tells you whether you like it or not. And every one of the things that you're going to try in your 20s brings experience, experience that you're going to build on, skills that you're going to build.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And so embracing this idea that I don't have to figure it all out. I'm exploring. This is a decade of possibility and I'm going to embrace it. Have you ever shown up at a beach on a wave day? Aren't wave days the best? The big rollers come in and you grab the boogie board and you jump in the waves and you ride them up and down. That's what I think the 20s are.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Figuring out what you like, learning how to ride the waves. That's what you're going to do. And look, I want to acknowledge something. It's easy for me to sit here and say, oh, it's a decade of possibility. You're going to figure it all out. I understand that there are going to be moments in your 20s where you do feel desperate.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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In fact, there are going to be moments in every decade of your life where you're going to think like you've made a major mistake. You're going to feel like you're not quite sure if you can go on. And I can really relate to this feeling because our daughter, Sawyer, who is now 26 years old, she's the exact opposite of me in terms of how she goes about her life, how she thinks.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And she just like has everything all mapped out, okay? Going to go to high school, then I'm going to go to college. During college, she got herself an internship at this huge cybersecurity firm. During the internship, she gets herself the offer to get the job. After college, the pandemic hits, a lot of plans go sideways.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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In three years of working for this massive cybersecurity firm, never went into work. Three years, never went in to work. Even though she loved her boss, even though she was engaged in her work, she hated never going into work. She never left her apartment. She would literally sit in Southie in Boston and work all day. And if you're in your 20s, that may be your experience.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Hybrid work has done a number of things. Yes, it's wonderful to have the flexibility, but it has imploded people's networks at work. It has imploded a sense of structure and rhythm to your day. It has destroyed the separation between your home space and your workspace, which is why people feel lonely and isolated. And that's what she started to feel.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And so she saved her money and she went on this lifelong dream to go on a four-month-long solo backpacking trip. And that was a highlight of her life, something she had been planning for seven years. She quits her job.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And one of the reasons why she didn't want to quit her job is because, check this out, she was worried about what future employers would think and what it would look like on her resume. Why? Because of the social clock, because of this expectation.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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I got to, the checklist in my 20s, I got to make sure that I stay at a job for a certain amount of time, that I stay in an industry for a certain amount of time, that I don't quit too soon or I don't stay too long so that it looks a certain way to other. This is all the same thing.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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I will see you after the bloopers, and you're going to love this bonus segment. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm absolutely thrilled that you're here. I am thrilled that you're here because, first of all, it's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together, but I'm also thrilled because the topic today is fan culture. It is so interesting.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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not wanting to look behind to other people, not wanting to look bad to other people based on what the expectations are of other people in society. Well, thankfully, she finally decided, I'm going to go on this trip. She spends four months solo backpacking. Great, because in your 20s, decade of possibility. You don't have kids. You don't have obligations.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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You don't have the massive amount of things that pile up in your life when you're in your 30s, 40s, and 50s. That's the time to do it. That's the time to move to a different city. That's the time to explore new things. That's the time to jump from one thing to the other because it is the decade of possibility. But then she came home completely broke and having no idea what to do with her life.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And if you don't have somebody in your life who is lost or feels behind, I want to play a little selfie video for you that she took of herself in her bedroom upstairs while she was living here at home with her parents at the age of 25, feeling broke and lost and not knowing what to do with her life. This is what it feels like to be behind in your 20s.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And yes, you will be okay. And yes, you're going to figure it out. And you don't have to figure it out today. And you don't have to figure it out next week. All you got to do is keep telling yourself, I'm going to figure this out. I am capable of putting one foot in front of the other. I am capable of networking with people. I am capable of landing a job and feeling it out.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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I'm capable of leaving a job if I don't like it. I'm capable of moving to another city. I'm capable of saving money because the decade of your 20s is not where you're supposed to figure it out. It's the decade of possibility where you have so many experiences because you're figuring out who you are and what you like. And none of that can be distilled down into a checklist.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And so instead of trying to check the boxes, I want you to take a step back. I want you to see that the 20s right now are really different. that it is challenging, it is overwhelming, it is confusing. And so feeling that way is normal. But the best thing that you can do is to remind yourself that you don't need to figure it out. Nobody has it figured out.

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But step by step, day by day, you have to remind yourself that you have the ability to explore, to make changes, to learn about yourself. And if you do that, I promise you, you are going to wake up at the end of your 20s and go, not only am I doing okay, but I've learned a lot about myself. And you're also doing better than you think you are.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And if you're listening right now and there's a 20-something in your life, that's exactly what you need to say to them. You are gonna figure this out. Your 20s are very hard. This hybrid work thing is so confusing. Trying to network with people that don't even show up to an office, it is really difficult. You're right. And guess what? You're still gonna figure it out.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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I'm so excited to share everything that I want to share with you today. I also want to say, if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm thrilled that you're here today. And because you made the time to hit play and listen to this particular episode, the title of which is, If You're Feeling Behind in Life.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And I'm gonna be here every step of the way to support you in doing it. So stop putting the pressure on yourself, take a breath, go for a walk, and then take the next right step. That's what we need to be saying to the 20-somethings in our life. So if you're 20 years of the decade of possibility, now let's talk about your 30s.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Because the biggest lie that the social clock in this invisible checklist is telling you is that you're supposed to, quote, settle down. You got to meet the one. You got to have kids. You got to find the house and settle down and move to the burbs. That is not what you have to do. If that's what you want to do, fine. But that's not what you have to do. This checklist was created.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Let's remind ourselves this checklist was created based on a time when the average life expectancy was in the 50s. This is your grandparents' checklist. And so it doesn't have to be yours. You do not live in the same moment of history that your grandparents or your parents did. And it's time to understand the reality so you can stop pressuring yourself to meet all these expectations.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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You're going to love this research. Do not go anywhere. We're going to take a short break so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. Please share this. I think this is one of those conversations that

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every family should listen to because it really sets the record straight on what modern life is for real, the pressures that you're facing, the expectations that we put on each other at every age. And so share this with your family in particular. Share it with your friends. I can't wait to hear about the conversations that you have in light of listening to this episode together.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And don't go anywhere. We are going into the 30s and the 40s and beyond when we return. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I'm so excited that you're here with me. We're talking about this feeling of being behind in life. It is so common right now. You are flooding the inbox at melrobbins.com slash podcast with messages about how you're struggling.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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You feel behind in your career. You feel like you should have figured out things by now. You're struggling with the ability to buy a house because it's so out of reach. I'm thrilled that you're listening to this. I know that the conversation today is going to be life-changing and empowering. I also know that it's going to create a deeper connection and understanding and level of support

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between you and members of your family and your friends. And so thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing this with people in your life. And we've already covered the 20s and how the decade of being 20 and the experience of being 20 right now is completely different than what it was like even just five years ago

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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Your 30s is a decade where you've told yourself this lie that you have to settle down. Like this is the decade where you've got to find the one. You have to have your kids. You have to buy a house. And while those are amazing things to do in your life, if those are things that you want to do, the pressure that you feel is complete BS.

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First of all, you're the type of person who does value your time. And you also want to make sure that your experience of where you are in your life right now, you want it to be different and you deserve to be enjoying your life. And after today's conversation, let me tell you something.

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There seem to be two major items on the checklist that people hold themselves accountable to in their 30s, and that is the house that you need to buy and the marriage and the kids that you need to have. And I'm going to unpack them both one by one. And I've been getting a lot of messages from people recently, and I want to read one from a listener named Shauna.

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She writes, Mel, I recently turned 35. I've been somewhat single for five years and I have a big wish to be a mom. I've always loved and wanted children. Taking care of kids is second nature to me. But as the months roll by and as I've matched my thousandth match on all the dating apps that I've been on for four years, I'm hitting a wall of despair. My life is not budging. The apps aren't apping.

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Meeting people in real life is not a thing anymore as no one ever talks to me when I go out. I don't have eligible single friends, nor are there friends of friends left. I can't be the only woman in this situation, and I don't know how to go on living like this. Well, first of all, yes, you do. You do know how to go on living. You're going to go on living.

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And based on what I'm going to unpack for you, I'm going to give you a sense of power and freedom that I want you to really embrace in your 30s. Because what you're feeling is extraordinarily common. And there is a big difference between the topic of having children and the reality that I need you to take seriously.

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versus the pressure that you feel to do it by a certain time and the pressure that people also feel during this decade to find the one, to get married, to buy the house, okay? So let's talk about the pressure to have kids because I want to be extremely responsible about that. The decade of your 30s is not the decade when you're supposed to settle down.

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The decade of your 30s, in my opinion, is where you need to dig into the research and settle in on what matters to you. This is particularly true when it comes to kids. Just because you haven't gotten pregnant yet, you haven't met the one yet, you're not a mom yet, doesn't mean you're not going to be one.

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But when it comes to the topic of having kids, it is critical in your 30s that you be honest with yourself about what you actually want. Because for women in particular, there is a biological deadline if you want to have your own biological children. So let's take fertility, for example.

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The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists say that a woman's best chance at getting pregnant is in her late teens to her late 20s. And fertility does start to decline around 30 and starts to drop off more significantly around 35. So what does that mean for you? That means that you don't need to settle down. But you need to be honest with yourself about what you want.

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In particular, when you hear the research that I have uncovered, when you hear the strategies that I'm going to share with you based on the age that you are right now, you are going to feel different in your life. how you see where you are right now based on your age, it's going to be different. Because the fact is, you're not behind. You're not late.

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And you've already done that part. You want to be a mom. You'd love to have children of your own. Great. If you're 35, that means you need to freeze your eggs. Do not gaslight yourself. Do not hold out on this. Follow the research and the medical facts and set yourself up to be able to make a decision in the future.

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Yes, the biological clock is a very real thing, which is why I want you to understand there are very real options that you have to make sure you don't miss the window. And just because it feels like this sense that, oh my God, I'm 35 and there's this checklist and there's a social clock and the door, you know, is closing. It doesn't mean your life is. It doesn't mean the options are closing.

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And you will feel so empowered if you take the step to freeze your eggs, which is what I would recommend that you do if this is something that you're serious about. Here's another thing that I would get serious about.

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If you're in a relationship right now and you know you want kids and your partner's like, eh, I don't know if I want kids or not, do not waste this decade with somebody who does not want the same things that you want. Do not tell yourself that the person is going to change your mind.

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Because if you continue to stay in a relationship with somebody who does not share the same vision for life, who does not have the same values for what you want on something as important as whether or not you're going to have kids, do not do that to yourself. Because you will waste the rest of this decade with a person that you hope changes their mind, and then the door will be closed.

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And you're going to regret this for the rest of your life. And so you've got to be very serious. Again, this is not where you settle down and you settle when it comes to your values and your vision for your life. Your 30s is where you get honest with yourself about some core things. But now I want to talk to you if you're in a situation where you're like, okay, I get it.

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And I still want to find the love of my life. I want that for you. And you are going to find the love of your life. And here's what I want to say about that, though. I wrote about this a lot and researched this in the Let Them Theory. And I think there's some important research if you, quote, haven't met the one.

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as if there's some sort of invisible checklist that you're supposed to complete by a certain age. You know, if you're in your 20s, you're writing me saying, I'm behind. I don't know what I want to do with my life. Or those of you in your 30s, you feel this pressure that by now you should have kids. You should have found the one. You should be buying a house.

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You've dated a lot of people or you've been in a bunch of relationships and it hasn't turned into a long-term committed relationship. There's very interesting research around this that you need to dig into. So on page 252 of the Let Them Theory book, I also address this fallacy that the purpose of dating is to find the one.

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And I think this is a reason why dating is so hard is that you don't understand the true purpose. You're not just trying to find the one. Dating is helping you learn more about yourself and what you want and what you don't want. And the Let Them Theory is going to be super important for you

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Because you got to let people show you who they are and you got to focus on what you actually want to feel and the type of person that you want to be with. Because the more time you spend chasing the wrong people, the longer it's going to take you to find the right one.

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And one of the most important lessons that you're going to learn is the kind of behavior that you will not accept, the kind of person you truly want to be with.

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And if you get so obsessed with finding the one and you feel so much pressure because of the stupid social clock as to when you're supposed to be in a committed long-term relationship, you're going to miss all of the information and the lessons that dating is trying to teach you. You weren't put on the earth to be somebody's wife or husband.

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You are here to fulfill your dreams, share your story, and create a big, beautiful, amazing life. No one else is going to create that life for you. The person you choose to love gets to share that life with you. That's why you got to be choosy. See, when you're dating, have a lot of fun, but don't ever forget the bigger picture.

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You're looking for someone who is capable of helping you become your best self and co-creating a beautiful life together. And so it's important to understand that you're learning more about yourself. And here's what I want you to do. it's easy to close yourself off. See, if you focus on the social clock, and I should have been finding the person by now. I'm 35.

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you are in the exact same boat as almost every other human being on the planet right now who has this sense that they're behind in life, that there's some sort of checklist that you're supposed to be checking off in your 20s or 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s and beyond, and that if you're not checking off these things on the list, that, oh, I should be doing this by then, I should be engaged, I should be having kids, I should be buying a house, I should be doing this, that if you're not checking these things off,

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If you start doing that, you get pickier. That's an interesting thing. You get pickier because you're looking for a needle in the haystack. That's not actually how you meet somebody that amplifies you. You actually have to do the opposite. You have to become more flexible. You have to be willing to be less choosy. and meet more people, you got to be more open to lots of different types of people.

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Because ultimately, the more people that you meet, the more you open yourself up to people of different heights, of different backgrounds, of different body types, of different professions, ultimately, it will lead you to choosing someone amazing who makes you feel incredible, who chooses you back. And look, I get it. It's kind of hard to embrace this idea that you've got to be more open.

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But I promise you, when you realize that it's your own insecurity and desperation around this that's narrowing the field, You got to do the opposite and open yourself up to new experiences and new people and change the filters is what everybody says. Change the filters, change the height filter, change the mileage filter, open yourself up.

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I promise you, the love of your life is just around the corner. In fact, if you knew that the love of your life were right around the corner, how would you be living your life differently now? There you go. All right. Let's talk about the third big thing that is one of these milestones on the checklist in your 30s, which is I got to buy a house. I got to buy a house. I got to have my first house.

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I got to have a house. I got to buy a house. I want to share, if you're in your 30s or, heck, 40s or 50s, and you're wanting to buy a home, and you're somewhere in the world where you feel like it feels out of reach, like when did real estate become so expensive? Because you're not wrong. Real estate is just, shocking's the wrong word. It's unfair, in my opinion, what's happened.

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I want to share some research with you because it's different. I'm sorry, it's different. than the situation that your parents and grandparents were in when they were buying their first home. The American dream in particular is now like the American nightmare. And a lot of experts say that the vehicle that was the primary vehicle where people could establish wealth, which is buying a home,

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$7,300.

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Some of you may be paying that in rent every two or three months. I think you could afford a house at $7,300, but if we were to convert that in today's dollars, what would the actual cost be adjusted for inflation in today's dollars? If we were looking at kind of like, okay, well, if we do apples to apples, adjusted for today's dollars, that would be $88,000.

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That means there's an 11X increase between what your grandparents were paying and what you now need to pay. What does that mean? Different world. Different reality, which means you got to have different expectations. And there's a reason why this has happened. Check this out. In 1991, the average home buyer was 35 years old. Today, the average home buyer, 56 years old.

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If you live in a world where the average homebuyer is 56 years old, why on earth would you tell yourself you have to have a house by the age of 30? Why are you putting so much pressure on yourself to do this? And if you're wondering, wow, it just seems like rents and housing costs have gone up significantly in the last couple of years, it has.

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that you're losing in life, that you're behind, that somehow you're the only person on the planet that hasn't figured this out. And the reason why I know that you're struggling with this is, first of all, this is a universal experience in life. I have felt this in my life. My kids who are in their 20s have felt this in their life. My husband has felt this at various ages.

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In the last three years, the housing market in Boston has gone up 73%. You're not imagining this. This is the reality. And I'm sure you've even seen this in your own neighborhood. The world has changed, which means you got to change the expectations and the pressure that you put on yourself. First of all, hybrid work coming out of the pandemic, it just imploded everything.

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And one of the things that it impacted is real estate costs because people that were living in big cities could move to smaller markets, which meant all of a sudden there was this huge bubble everywhere. Even in places where normally it would cost way less to buy a house. Another reason, a lot of people don't talk about this, but it's true.

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All of those supposed federal grants that were supposed to go to payroll and to helping businesses stay open, you know what a lot of people did with that money? They invested in real estate. So did private equity. That's why you've got situations where there's no rental stock, why it's impossible to buy a house. And I'm not saying this to make you depressed.

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I'm saying it because how are you possibly going to settle down if you're not accepting where the world is right now? And so here's what I want you to do. If buying your own home is an important core value to you, fantastic.

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And I personally believe that you can figure out how to do it and you can figure out how to do it in a great place and you can find a house and you can buy a house and you can fix up a house. If that's your dream, wonderful. But I want you to stop holding this checklist or this social clock over your head and I want you to embrace reality that things have changed.

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The real estate market is different. And I want you to do your research, just like I'm asking you to do the research around kids. Do the research. Embrace the fact that this is not something that has a timeline. It's a dream that you own, and there are things that you can do to set yourself up for it. It might take you four or five years to save the money to get a house.

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It might take you researching going to auction on houses going to foreclosure. You might decide when you do the research, hey, you know what I've realized? I actually want to rent where I am, but maybe what I'm going to do is I'm going to look into buying a small little unit that I can rent that's in a place that I want to move to in five years. And so I'm going to think about this differently.

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because I live in a different moment in time. And if I really double down on what I want, and then I start getting smart and doing the research about how to work with what I've got and to embrace the reality of the decade I'm living in and the moment in history that I'm in and the place that the market's in and finances are in, I can figure this out.

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And if I loosen my timeline and I give myself some grace, I'm going to feel motivated to do it. And I might just do this in a way that's super cool. I'm going to rent a house. I'm going to get an investment place. I'm going to learn how to make money on the side. And then guess what? When I move up there in about five to 10 years, I'm going to have paid off a lot of that mortgage.

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I'm going to be sitting really pretty. In fact, I not only now have a house, I did it in a way that it was even smarter than what my parents and grandparents did. And for those of us that are not in our 30s, really understanding that the landscape is different

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understanding that housing prices are exorbitant and to level set your expectations is important because then you're not adding undue and unnecessary pressure on yourself, which is only going to make you feel lost and depressed. And now you don't have to because you can figure it out. So let's go to our 40s.

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And the poster child for how to take control of your life in your 40s when you think you screwed everything up is your friend Mel Robbins. I have so much to share with you about this. The 40s were the best decade of my life. Well, actually, the 50s are pretty good, too. But the 40s is where, holy cow, I went from rock bottom to climbing the mountain. And you can, too.

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But more importantly, I'm seeing your messages that are flooding into the inbox at MelRobbins.com. I'm seeing what you're writing in the comments on social media and the number of you who are writing in right now. And you may be thinking, wait, Mel's reading my comments. Of course, I'm reading your comments. Of course, I'm reading your inbox.

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We're going to hear a few words from our amazing sponsors. And don't go anywhere. We're going into the 40s when we return. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are talking about this concept of feeling behind in your life, unpacking research around the pressure of following the social clock and expectations of other people and societal norms.

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We've already covered your 20s and your 30s. I'm thrilled that you're here. I'm thrilled that you're sharing this with people that you care about. And I'm also thrilled to talk about our 40s because... I think the 40s were one of the hardest decades of my life, but it ended being one of the best. And it can be one of your best decades too.

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So the lie that people tell themselves about their 40s is that if you haven't made it yet, then you're never going to. It's complete baloney. In fact, this was my story. At the age of 41, my husband's restaurant business was failing. I had been laid off from this job that I thought was going to be my ticket. And I felt like I had made every single bad decision in my career.

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I mean, I told you earlier about the number of career changes that I'd had in my 20s. I kept bouncing from one thing to the other in my 30s. I mean, I'm talking another seven different pivots. And so here I am 41, I'm about 14 jobs in, in my career. It didn't look like a resume. It looked like a choose your own disaster adventure. And now I'm feeling at the age of 41, I've completely blown it.

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I've blown it. And not only have I blown it in my career, I don't have any money. We've invested everything in my husband's restaurant business. That's now failing. So you want to talk about that sense that you're not only behind, but that you've royally screwed it all up. I thought in my, there's no way I'm getting out of debt. There's no way I'm getting the liens off the house.

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There's no way I'm going to be able to pay for my kid's college. There's no way I'm ever going to be successful in my career. That's how I felt at the age of 41. I wasn't just behind. I effed the whole thing up. And I'm here to tell you that you're just getting started when you hit your 40s.

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And one of the best things about being in your 40s is that even if your career or your financial life is a complete train wreck like mine was, you still are not starting from scratch. That's the coolest thing. Every single thing that you've done up until this point is actually building experience, experience that you can build on. And so you're not too late.

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And it's kind of startling, the number of you that are writing in saying, I just feel lost. I feel behind in my life. And I I so relate to that sentiment, but I didn't realize how many of you are feeling this right now. And so I'm like, we got to dig into this and we got to not just kind of talk about it as a thematic thing. Let's do the research. Let's find the experts.

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In fact, if you look at the life expectancy of 77, you're like got 37 more years. Do you know how much you can get done in 37 years? And here's the thing I want you to really think about. If you're going to hold yourself to a standard that by the age of 40, you should have things figured out, that means that you can kind of figure things out over the next couple decades, okay?

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You got plenty of time. And beating yourself up and telling yourself that you're lost and telling yourself that you've screwed up Do you know what that does? It doesn't motivate you. It actually makes you depressed. It makes you feel like a loser and you're not a loser. You just have a winding path. You are probably just stubborn like I am and you learn lessons the hard way.

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You explored a lot and now you know a lot. And so you cannot afford to tell yourself this stupid lie that it's too late. that you're behind, that you've screwed it up, that you can't turn it around because it's complete BS. If I can do it, you can do it. And it's not just me. Do you know Vera Wang, the famous fashion designer, wedding designer?

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She started designing wedding dresses at the age of 40. Samuel L. Jackson landed that role in Pulp Fiction. 45, Julia Child. Do you know how old she was? Famous French chef, Julia Child, when she published her very first cookbook. 49. And here's the other thing that you have in your 40s. You have a network of people that you know. You have a number of experiences.

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You have a lot of lessons that you've learned. And now, you know what you have in your 40s that you didn't have in your 30s? You have a sense of urgency. And you can use that to your advantage. Take everything that's happened in your career to this date and say, you know what? I'm going to figure this out in my decade. I'm going to triple down and I'm going to go for it.

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Your 40s aren't a finish line. Your 40s are the launch pad for the next decade of your life. That's what they are. It's where you can truly launch forward in your career. You can do something new. You can build on what you've learned, the mistakes that you've made. That's why the 40s are incredible.

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And by the way, the other reason why the 40s is really fun to do is because everybody around you is so distracted, typically raising kids, or they're engaged in their career, or they're doing other things that nobody cares what you're doing. So you can do anything that you want. And that is super cool.

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I mean, that's true about all the decades, but in the 40s in particular, you're going to notice people don't care as much and you're not going to care as much either. And here's another statistic that I want to give to you. Maybe things haven't worked out because you're supposed to do your own thing. Maybe

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Your 40s is where you take that interest that you had or that side hustle or that thing you've always imagined doing and you actually launch your own thing. Do you know this is research from a study at MIT Sloan School of Business? The average age of a successful startup founder, 45. Kind of cool, huh? You want to know why the average age is 45?

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Because you have a certain amount of wisdom and a certain amount of failure and a certain amount of clarity after four decades of your life about who you are and what your strengths are and what you're interested in. And you're also sick of the BS. And so you can laser focus in on what you actually want to do. And for me,

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Let's figure out what this sense of being behind in your life actually is. And this is such a common experience in life. It's so common, in fact, that there's a word for it. It's called the social clock. That is the technical name based on research for this sense that there's some invisible checklist that you're supposed to mark your success in life by.

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It was my 40s where I got tired of my own excuses and I forced myself to do it. And I think that's the invitation that your 40s have for you. If you don't like where you are, then stop listening to your excuses and use this decade to change your life.

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If you've been sitting around waiting for somebody else to come rescue you, stop gaslighting yourself and take responsibility for creating what you want. Because it was my 40s and that rock bottom moment that forced me to discover the strength that I have and the capacity that I have to do the things that needed to be done in order to change my life for the better.

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And regardless of whether you're successful or you're struggling like I was, you have that exact same ability and your 40s are your invitation to get honest with yourself and get to work. All right, let's talk about our 50s. The lie you're going to tell yourself is that when you hit 50, because it's kind of that midpoint in life that you're supposed to have some sort of crisis. No, you're not.

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It's not the midlife crisis. I actually think your 50s are a moment for fabulous reinvention. I was 50 years old when I went from being a motivational speaker to starting a media production company and working with companies like JP Morgan and Starbucks and Ulta Beauty and Audible. I was 54.

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when I started the Mel Robbins podcast, which as I'm talking to you right now is the number one ranked podcast in the entire world. Number one, as a 56-year-old woman sitting above my garage in Vermont, having never done that before and leaning into all, I think that is so freaking cool.

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And it's an example that if you look at your 50s, not as I'm behind, I should have been here, da-da-da-da-da-da. This is where you get to play.

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This is where reinvention is a thing because for most of us in our 50s, if you've had the kind of life where you've been raising kids or you've been climbing the ladder at work or you've been busy caring for everybody else, this is where you get to think about yourself.

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That doesn't mean you don't still have to care for kids or care for aging parents or you don't have a demanding career, but what if this were a decade where you stopped lying to yourself and saying it's too late to start over? and you started telling yourself the truth, which is your 50s are the decade of reinvention. Everybody that I know that's in their 50s is doing something cool right now.

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And if you are listening and you have parents in their 50s, please send this to them. Please remind your parents that they are super cool and there's so many cool things that they could be doing because everybody that I know in their 50s right now is thinking about this. Like they're either thinking about it from the standpoint of what do I want to do next?

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Or they're thinking about it from the standpoint of, all right, I've taken care of the kids and everybody else. What do I want to do? What's the contribution I want to make? In fact, my husband, I'm so proud of him, Christopher Robbins, for the last five years, when he was in his 50s, he started a men's retreat called Soul Degree. He only does three of them a year.

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He has also gotten a certificate to be a death doula. He also is working on his first book. I'm so excited about this book. I can't tell you about it. I'm going to have to let him tell you about it when he's finished writing. But he writes every day for an hour. How cool is that? And the man is also getting a master's in spiritual psychology right now.

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He just applied online and he's doing it remotely. Isn't that so cool? That's available to you. I really feel like thinking about 50s as giving yourself permission to reimagine what's possible. And that goes for everything. If you're divorced, you're going to meet the love of your life. If you're married, you want to know the best marriage. It's the second marriage to the first person.

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And the research is incredible, and it's going to completely transform how you feel about where you are in life. So let's talk about this concept of social clock.

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That's the best marriage. When you reimagine what's possible with the person that you've been with for the last 20 to 30 years. I feel more connected to Chris now because of what we're doing to improve our relationship in our 50s and being like really intentional about how we're showing up and changing old patterns. Like it's the coolest thing ever. So it's not too late.

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It's actually just the beginning of a whole new chapter of your life and a decade where you can reimagine everything. And, you know, I've got this message from Laura. where she wrote and said, Mel, I'm a recent empty nester to twins. So boom, it happened all at once. I have no idea what I want to happen now. I've been a caretaker for my family, and now I'm not.

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I have a small crafting business, but it doesn't really excite me. It just brings me some extra money, so I feel like I contribute a little financially. The last 14 years, I've volunteered at the schools, but that chapter's closed.

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I believe I wanted to get involved in some kind of charity, but I'm not sure what, or maybe start something of my own that would benefit my town locally, or maybe leave a legacy. I'm just not sure what direction I should go in. You know what's cool about this? Is that it's kind of like your 20s. Give yourself permission. You don't have to pick a direction.

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Explore them all and see what feels right. And you don't have to figure it out by the end of this year. What if you give yourself your 50s to explore all kinds of things? And that's part of the process of reinventing yourself.

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And once I unpack that and how it creates pressure and expectations that are just simply unfair and not accurate for where the world is at right now, once you see this and then we go decade by decade, you're going to be liberated by how you're going to look at your life and yourself differently. And so in the 1960s, there was a psychologist by the name of Bernice Newgarden.

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And so I want to say a couple things, though, because there was some great research about being in your 50s, and this will also be true as we get into 60s and beyond, from Robert Waldinger, our professor at Harvard Medical School from the Harvard Study of Adult Development.

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He basically said that one of the coolest things about reaching your 50s and beyond is that the kids are gone and you can finally start to think about yourself again. One of the coolest things about this phase of your life is that you've been through some hard things. And I want you to give yourself credit for that. You've experienced loss. You've experienced job changes.

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You may have gone through a divorce. And you have a lot more wisdom and life experience, which means you also have resilience that you need to give yourself credit for. And there's this kind of confidence that comes up where you sort of are like, you know, this is who I am. Take me or leave me. Let them, right? You sort of start accepting yourself.

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And yes, while you still are going to worry about other people in your life in this period of your life, this is a moment where you need to really double down on yourself. In fact, there's some really interesting research from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development in the UK. 73% of job growth over the last 30 years has come for people over 50.

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So don't be lying to yourself and telling yourself that there are no opportunities. It's completely wrong. And if you are going back into the workforce, there's really great research from LinkedIn. They did this big thing about the future of work, and they're calling this era a skills-based economy.

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And whether you've had a long career or you're changing careers or you're going back into the workforce, Stop telling yourself you're too old. You have skills from your life experience. Communication, project management.

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If there are things that you want to learn, there are so many classes online that you can take to brush up on skills related to tech, related to project management, related to AI, and all of that is available to you. The other thing that the research is very clear about is the 50s is a period in your life where friendship really matters.

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This is a moment where you want to pivot away from a primary focus of caregiving and of just burying yourself in your career and reprioritize friendship. It is critical for you to double down on being proactive and starting to build a community.

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Because one of the things that you're going to learn about as we jump into how the social clock and this invisible checklist is lying to people in their 60s and beyond is is the importance of friendship, the importance of having social connections. And so your 50s, it's not too late. You can reinvent yourself. You can fluff up your social life.

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In fact, you can meet some of the best friends of your life from this point forward, and you will if you lean into it and you stop lying to yourself. So that brings me to the 60s, where there's a lot of lying that people do to themselves about it's time to retire. In 1935, Social Security Act set 65 as the age of retirement, and we all just kind of followed in line.

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Who says you have to retire at 65? Who says you have to work into your 60s if you don't want to? This is your life. Don't live it based on other people's expectations. Figure out what's going to make you happy. Figure out what's going to bring you meaning. In fact, here's a message from Alyssa who wrote in to MelRobbins.com slash podcast. Mel,

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To retire or not, I'm struggling with the challenges of retirement, money, no clear plans, and the fear of being forgotten. What if I don't want to retire, but everyone around me keeps asking me, when are you going to retire? Like for me personally, I'm never retiring. I don't want to retire. I don't want to retire because first of all, I love what I do. I love learning.

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And she found that every single society has this invisible checklist for life milestones. You got to graduate from college by 22. You got to be married by 30. You got to have kids by 35. You're going to have your midlife crisis when you turn 50. You got to retire by 65. And here's an interesting note about 65 and retiring. Where do these numbers come from?

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I love the connection to everybody on my team. I love having a sense of purpose. And I believe that 60s is not a time to slow down. 60s is not a time to retire. 60s is the decade where I want you to reignite your passion for life. That's what I want you to do. And when I hear in this question, should I retire? Should I not retire? You know what I hear? I hear pressure. I hear expectation.

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I hear a social clock that's so dumb. How about answering that question from, well, what is going to reignite passion? And passion is just a fancy word for energy. What brings energy into your life? And look, if you want to retire from your job because you hate it and you've stayed for a pension or you've saved enough money and now you can do something else, great.

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But maybe do something else that energizes you and brings you passion. Or maybe you're in the camp that a lot of people are in, where you are living in a moment in time where what you save for is not going to actually cover the cost of retirement. And I want to say right up front that I personally feel like being in your 60s right now is a lot like being in your 20s.

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experiencing your 60s is very different than what it was like to be 60 just 10 years ago. I mean, I laid out some of the statistics when we were talking about being in your 20s and in your 30s about the way that the housing market has changed, the cost of living, the chaos in the news, the up and down in the stock market.

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All this stuff is impacting the financial obligations that you have, the realities that you're going to live longer. And also keep in mind that when the age of retirement hit at 65 in 1935, the life expectancy wasn't that high. And now you're living longer. And so the reality might be that you planned for a certain age, but now that you're there, you're like, wait a minute. I'm really engaged.

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I don't want to just sit around and fill it with golf and Mahjong. I mean, I want to be doing something. And that's a really cool thing. Or maybe the reality is that you saved and you thought you'd be in a certain place, but now you live in a part of the world where, my God, the insurance costs are rising or you have a health condition and so you need the insurance. That's just the reality.

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And so it's not a time to pressure yourself to retire unless you want to. It's a time to really think about passion and how you reignite it in your life. What can you be doing, whether it's volunteering or a different type of job or staying in what you're currently doing to keep energy and passion alive? And this is important because the research is pretty clear.

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And I so relate to the feeling that you can have in your 40s, 50s, and 60s that you've really screwed up your career. You didn't save enough money or you got a divorce. You've made so many mistakes. And now it's too late.

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that there is a pretty deep decline in verbal memory. There's an uptick in depression and social isolation that happens when people retire because you underestimate how important it was to be engaged in a community at work

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to be focused on the things that you are working on and how it stimulates your brain, the rhythm and the structure of your work life and how it gives you a sense of purpose and how it gets you out of bed in the morning. The same is true with what I was talking about with your 20s.

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If all you're doing is hybrid work and you've never experienced that, not having that structure creates its own isolation and sense of being lost. The fastest growing segment of the workforce is people 65 and older. I love that people are staying engaged. I love that. And I want you to really think about it. And if you're starting to feel like, well, I'm kind of getting a forced retirement.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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Why do we all think we're supposed to do certain things by a certain time? Well, they come from societal norms. And what you're about to discover, this blew my mind when I dug into the research, is so many of the societal norms were determined like 50 to 100 years ago when life was different. In fact, life expectancy was completely different.

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Well, you know, I'm needing to kind of leave gracefully. Just think about what's next. Just because you're leaving one job or you're closing the door on one chapter of your career, do you know how much you have to give to a nonprofit or you have to give to a new venture or you have to give by sitting on boards?

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Stay involved because it's really going to help you stay energized and passionate in your life. When you decide to retire, choose to do it because it's what you want to do, not because society expects you to do it. You're not behind. You're not ahead. You're just living your life based on a way that makes it exciting and meaningful for you.

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And if you are choosing to retire in your 60s, I want to just highlight the research, and this is important for you to share with people that you love. It is critical that that you get involved in something else. It is critical that you stay social. Do not underestimate how important this is. And do not underestimate how much that is provided by the fact that you're still working.

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And so there is no timeline. There is no checklist. There is just the research and the reality of where you're at. and the reality of where you are in history. And so focus, focus, focus on reigniting your passion. And that brings me to what's possible in your 70s and beyond. This is not the decade to slow down.

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In fact, there was an expert that we had on the podcast by the name of Dr. Vonda Wright. She is a world-renowned orthopedic surgeon and researcher in longevity. And what she had to say about aging blew my mind. Everybody that you care about, your parents, your grandparents, need to hear this clip. Just check out what Dr. Vonda Wright has to say about getting older.

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And what I love about her research is that it doesn't matter if you took the worst care of yourself up until this point. Your muscles and your brain are designed to grow and get stronger until the day you die. There are things that you can start doing now that will increase your mobility, your movement, your strength, your vitality, your energy.

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It is never too late to fully experience the possibilities of your life. And I think that is such an exciting message that you don't have to slow down. I personally, I want to be dancing the day I die. I literally want to go, go, go, go, go, and boom, drop dead. That's exactly what I want to do. Now, is it going to happen? I don't know.

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But I hold that vision for my life, and I hold that vision for you too. It's not a time to slow down. It's a time to get strong. and to stay strong and to be connected and to be social and to have more fun. And one of the things that's more important than ever is connection. If there were ever a decade to double down on your relationship with your family, your friends, your loved ones, it's now.

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Relationships matter. And here's what I'm going to tell you. If there are things you need to apologize for, if there's somebody that you have not forgiven, if there is someone that you've never said I love you to, now's the time. It doesn't matter what's gone down in the past. There are always ways that you can build bridges to people and create a different future.

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and being proactive about creating stronger connections with your loved ones, with friends, meeting new friends, heck, even finding love again. You know, one of the things that's very inspiring to me is that my mother-in-law has been a widower for 19 years. She has found the second love of her life at the age of 85. how cool is that? I mean, she's giggling like a teenager for crying out loud.

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They're so cute together. I just love thinking about the fact that some of the best days of your life are ahead of you. And when you adopt this truth that your body is designed to move. Your body is designed to be strong. Your mind really wants to learn and be connected. And it can.

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That what brings meaning into your life, particularly near the end of your life, is connection to friends and family. And you can build it. And in fact, I was talking with my parents the other day. My mom is 76 and my dad is 80. And their community where they are over the winters in Florida has really shrunk. either because people are no longer coming down or they're getting older.

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And a lot of their friends who are a decade older than my parents, they're dying, which is like super sad. And I was saying to my dad the other day, like, what do you think you guys want to do in the next couple of years? You know, do you want to stay in your house? Do you want to go? And my dad was so cute. He was like, well... We're really thinking about it.

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We're thinking about where we might want to be. And we're thinking about the possibility of making lots of new friends and getting reengaged in a new community. And I just think that's so exciting to have that attitude. And so, you know, the BS that we've been sold about the fact that you're supposed to slow down and get fragile and disconnected and get grumpy and grouchy. It's not true.

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1935.

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1935 was when the Social Security Act happened, and it created this moment in time at the age of 65 where Social Security was a thing. That's when you were supposed to retire. And we all were just like, okay. And then we set the social clock at 65, and then we all live our lives as if we're supposed to retire at 65. Says who? I guess everybody since 1935. Isn't that kind of dumb?

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It's simply not true. And the science is there to prove it. And the evidence is all around you. In fact, let me just give you some really fun statistic. Betty White, Betty White worked until she passed away at 99. Dick Van Dyke just starred in a Coldplay music video. George H.W. Bush, my dad talks about this a lot. He's like, I think I want to do that. Went skydiving on his 90th birthday.

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If they can do it, so can you. In fact, one of the other cool things that's available to all of us is tech. We complain a lot about social media, but you know how many 90-year-olds have millions of followers on TikTok? One of my favorite is Grandma Droniac. She's hilarious. You might even recognize her voice. I want to play a little clip. This is Lillian Droniak.

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She's got 14.8 million TikTok followers. The channel is managed by her grandson, Kevin, which I also love because that's an example of how she's being proactive to stay connected with her grandson. And she's having fun all the way until she drops dead. Just listen to this. It's hilarious.

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You know what I love about that? You can tell she's having fun. And I think that brings us back to the whole point of this conversation. Who says you're supposed to be a certain way at 90? It's complete BS. You can be any way you want. And if you can be any way that you want, if you can do whatever you want in the decades of your life, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you wanna have fun?

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Why wouldn't you wanna re-engage in your passion? Why wouldn't you wanna stop pressuring yourself and holding these expectations over yourself and lying to yourself? You're not lost. You're not behind. It's not too late. You have plenty of time to figure things out and you will.

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And now is the time to stop holding the social clock over your head, to delete this invisible checklist, and to double down on where you are in your life, what you want, the moment of history that you're in, and imagine a bigger possibility and remind yourself every step of the way, this is your life. Stop comparing. Stop apologizing. Stop telling yourself behind because you're not.

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You're right on time. You are capable of figuring this out and you will. Alrighty, in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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And I think what we've learned today is recognizing when you're holding yourself to somebody else's or society's expectations, that's not how you're going to create a better life. That's how you're going to stress yourself out, make yourself depressed, drive yourself crazy. So stop doing it.

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Creating a better life requires you to take ownership of where you are and what you actually want and how you want to feel. And I'm here to remind you, and I hope you will start reminding yourself that whatever it is that you decide you want to create in this decade of your life, you're capable of doing it. Now get to work. I'll see you in a couple days.

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I'll be waiting in the very next episode to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. All right, you ready? No, you're good. Okay, here we go. Great, great. Okay, awesome. Okay, great. And where... Hold on a second. Is it that, Wendy?

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It's a weather vane that I'm going to have to have removed from this. But as the months roll by, and as I've matched my thousandth match on all the dating ads, and as I've matched my thousandth... Oh my God, I can't talk right now. All right, great. Let's have lunch. What time is it? It's three? How did that take so long? That's how we do it, people. Okay. Oh, and one more thing.

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If You’re Feeling Behind in Life, Listen to This

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And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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That we have this stupid age where we're supposed to do something by? You know, my son Oakley, I'm thinking about something else. My son Oakley, he had a lot of challenges going through school. He bounced from public elementary school to a school for kids with language-based learning disabilities because of dyslexia.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. This bonus segment is sponsored by Walmart+. Spring is here. Thank goodness, right? And with it comes the perfect moment to reset, refresh, and refocus on what really matters to you.

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Whether that means spending more time with your family instead of running errands or spending more time in your garden or making smarter choices for your budget, Walmart+, makes it easier. It's a paid membership program with tons of benefits.

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And it's super easy to sign up at plus.walmart.com to get free delivery when you spend at least $35, gas savings, free shipping with no order minimum, and video streaming at no additional cost. It's all designed to save you time and money. You know, I know you're here listening to this bonus segment because you really want to make some positive changes. And I got news for you.

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Making positive changes doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. When in doubt, do the next right thing. Because we're four months into 2025. And perhaps for you, that's four months since you even set some goals for yourself. You want to start a business. You want to save for that dream vacation.

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You want to spend more time with the people that you love. You want to take better care of yourself. Of course you do. And at first, when you start out working on these things, you feel great. And then life happens. You start slipping, distractions pile up, and suddenly all of those good intentions and those goals that you set for yourself, oh my gosh, they just fade into the background.

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Now, I'm not here to call you out about that, by the way. I mean, the world that you and I live in, it is just overwhelming and it's so easy to get distracted. So it's totally understandable that a few months into the year, you might be feeling a little rundown or unsure about how to get back on track.

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Well, if you looked at just what's the next right step now, then what happens is now becomes the perfect time to just hit the refresh button and ask yourself, am I still showing up for the things that I said mattered to me? Momentum isn't about making big dramatic moves. It's simply about doing the next right thing.

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You can waste your energy beating yourself up for everything you haven't done, or you can realize that you get to decide what you do next. Let's say that you have a goal to write a book and a lot of people have a goal to write a book and you should write a book. And yeah, it's a big goal and it sounds kind of scary. Is anyone going to read this?

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Then he had to go to another smaller school because that school stopped at the age of eighth grade. And he had to repeat a grade. So now he's ending his freshman year of college and he just turned 20. And he's like, I feel... weird because I'm older. Aren't you supposed to be like 18 when you're a freshman? Says who? I guess we did.

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And maybe that's the reason why you haven't made a lot of progress on it. You're constantly like talking yourself out of it. What's the next right thing? thing. I'm not talking about building a marketing plan or designing the cover or figuring out the perfect ending.

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What if you just sat down for 10 minutes today, and then the next day, the next right thing was to sit down again and just put a few words on the page? Or maybe you're trying to get healthier, but then you just stress eat your way through the work week on fast food. What's the next right thing. It's not punishing yourself.

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The next right thing is just choosing a healthy meal to cook instead of spiraling. Research out of Stanford Graduate School of Business shows that the way that you and I structure our goals has a huge impact on your success.

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When you are just starting out on any kind of change or big goal, breaking that goal or change down into smaller, more manageable, kind of like micro goals, it actually boosts your focus and increases your motivation. Because when you have these tiny little milestones, what happens is the overall goal feels more attainable.

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And because it feels more attainable, that gives you the little extra encouragement and push that helps you get going and keep going. Just focus on the next right thing. Thank you again to Walmart Plus for sponsoring this bonus segment.

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A better life starts with the small decisions you make every day because those small decisions can add up to really big impact, like the decision to join Walmart Plus. With Walmart Plus, your goals of saving time and money are right within sight with free delivery, free shipping, gas savings, video streaming, and so much more. Walmart Plus can make the rest of your life easier as it should be.

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Start a free 30-day trial at plus.walmart.com. See Walmart Plus terms and conditions. $35 order minimum. Paramount Plus Essential Plan only. Separate registration required.

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That's what this concept of social clock is, that if you follow the clock and you're a freshman at 18 and not 20, you're, quote, on time. But if you're not following the clock and you retire at 75, you're off time. If you haven't had kids by the time you're 30, if you haven't met the one by the time you're in your late 20s, that you're off time, you're falling behind.

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It's even stressing you out if you're in your 70s and 80s, this sense that there's some perfect way you're supposed to go through life, these boxes that you're supposed to be checking in your 20s, your 30s, your 40s, your 50s. And so today, I am so excited to talk to you about this because I have so much research to share with you.

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That's where this sense that you're falling behind comes from. It's these weird societal norms that we set way back when for when somebody is supposed to be doing something.

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And what I'm going to prove to you today is that the timeline that is in place, that your parents live by, that your grandparents live by, that your friends are all following, that you are feeling all this pressure around, it's completely made up. And it was also made up when life was totally different. I mean, wait till I just unpack all this for you. It's crazy when you hear this.

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And I want to bring in another researcher that I absolutely love. This is research from Dr. Robert Waldinger's book, The Good Life, Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study on Happiness. Now, Dr. Robert Waldinger, he has been on this podcast. He's absolutely fantastic. He is a professor at Harvard Medical School. He is also the fourth director

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of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, which is the longest study that has ever been done on what it means to live a happy and meaningful life. This thing's been in existence for 86 years. And the data is very conclusive. And he actually writes about this idea of a social clock and how it screws us all up. It makes us unhappy. It makes us feel like we're falling behind or we're losing in life.

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So Dr. Waldinger takes Bernice Newgarten's research about this social clock even a step further because he says it's not just society and things like we got to retire at 65 or we got to graduate by the time we're 18 that put pressure on us. But there's also social clocks that you may feel based on your upbringing. or based on influences like your friends, or news, or social media, or movies.

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They create this sense that, oh my gosh, okay, that's what other people are doing right now, so that's what I need to be doing right now. Whether it's, oh, my friends are now all leaving big cities and moving out to where the mountains are, and maybe I need to be doing that. Or, oh my gosh, my best friend just got engaged and I'm still single, maybe I need to be doing that right now.

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And they also differ from culture to culture. Generation to generation, which we're about to get into, like when I unfold how different life was one or two human beings ago and how we still live by some of the same social clocks as people had 50 years ago. You're going to think to yourself, this is ridiculous. Why am I doing this to myself?

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And Dr. Waldinger writes about the fact that there are these key events in everybody's life, like when do you leave a childhood home? When are you going to enter into a committed long-term relationship? Are you having kids? And if so, at what age? When are you buying a house?

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That these can also have a cultural value based on where you were raised, based on where you grew up, based on your religion, based on your grandparents and your parents' personal history.

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That is what creates the sense that you're off time because you're not, quote, on time based on your parents' expectations or based on what your friends are doing or based on what is sort of valued in the culture that you grew up in. And this is where it gets really important and interesting to me. is that it's not that being off time is stressful in and of itself.

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And this is research that is going to give you so much freedom and power. Hear me loud and clear. Being a 20-year-old today is not the same experience as it was even five years ago. Being 60 years old today, not the same experience as it was even just five or 10 years ago.

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What makes it stressful is the fact that you don't think you're meeting the expectations that society or your parents or your friends have for you. That's what makes this so challenging. See, the sense of falling behind is based on falling behind to whom? Falling behind based on what? Falling behind based on whose expectations? That's what's at the heart of this.

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And that's why I think this is so commonplace in terms of an experience that you're feeling right now, that there is this crazy expectation that society has for where you're supposed to be in your life based on your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and you've just adopted it. When is the exact age that you should go to nursing school? When is the time limit for when you could apply to go back to school?

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Where's the time limit to you reinventing your career? Where's the time limit for where you can no longer get good with money? There isn't one. And that's why this whole notion that you're behind in life is a freaking joke. And it's time to stop playing into it. At the beginning of the 1800s, Can you guess what the average life expectancy was here in the United States? So it's the 1800s.

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What do you think the average life expectancy is? Just take a guess. 29 years old. 29 years old? Of course you're getting married at the age of 20. I mean, you're almost dead for crying out loud. You got to hurry up. But that's not your life today. No wonder people were trying to get it all done. Because if your average life expectancy is 29, you got to hurry up.

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Every second counts for crying out loud. Like think about your grandparents. Life in the 50s was completely different. Have you ever turned on a movie from the 50s? It looks like a different planet. From the cars to the clothes to the way the saturation of the film looks to the social norms.

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And so the reason why your grandparents and sometimes even your parents don't understand what you're doing in your 20s is because they literally lived in a different reality. Their friends were dying in their 50s. That's why they hurried up and had certain expectations about things.

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You live in a completely different moment of time, which means you have to have completely different expectations for yourself and what's possible. And a lot of those expectations that need to change about where you're supposed to be in your life are so exciting and so full of possibility. And this stupid social clock and this checklist from the 1950s, oh, I got to be this by this.

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I got to figure it out by my 20s. I got to be married by this certain time. It's so dumb because that's not the world you live in. And it's not only dumb, it can make you miserable because you may be making a major life decision right now because of approval, not based on what's going to make you happy.

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You may be torturing yourself, telling yourself that you have to have everything figured out right now in your 20s or your 30s or that it's too late to reinvent yourself because of the mistakes that you've made and now you're in your 50s. Complete BS. It's not the truth. And yet you're making yourself miserable because of these stupid checklists that we're all adhering to.

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The pressure to be, quote, on time in life isn't the truth. It's social conditioning. And it ends today. So let's start with our 20s and the lies you're telling yourself and the lies that the social clock has been telling you. And when I share with you the reality of of what it's like to be in your 20s today, I think you're going to feel very validated.

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And the expectations that society has, that your friends have, that your family have about where you're supposed to be, they're wrong. Today's conversation is gonna blow your mind. It's gonna liberate you from this stupid social pressure that you feel.

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And if you're listening right now and you're not in your 20s, but you have somebody in your life who is, this is going to be so eye-opening because being in your 20s right now is a very different experience than being in your 20s even five years ago.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So let's settle the debate once and for all. Is it true that some of us are just not morning people and never will be? If you don't consider yourself a morning person or you just find it's hard to create and stick to a good morning routine, and you've always kind of wondered, what the heck is going on? Why can't I get out of bed?

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And look, if you have been just burning the candle at both ends and you're tired, like I have, like I've been super tired this week and I didn't even set an alarm. I just allowed myself to sleep as long as I needed to sleep and then wake up when I want to wake up. And two mornings ago, I just kind of laid in bed for about 20 minutes until I was ready to get out of bed.

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That's okay every once in a while because you're just getting the rest that you need. But if you chronically are laying in bed and you're just ruminating on what's wrong with your life. That's a huge problem. And the six steps that you're about to learn are going to help you feel better. They're the six steps that you need in order to live and thrive with depression.

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They are the six steps that you need to push through all seven things I just talked about. And I promise you, the coolest thing about learning how to get up and get going is that the movement and the rhythm of your routine actually snaps you out of these seven things that I just listed that validate why it's been so hard for you.

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And if you really embrace what I'm gonna be sharing with you, these are things within your reach that are completely free, that you are capable of doing that will help you feel better, it will help you tap into the amazing wiring of your brain and your body, it will help you start building momentum in your life, and no matter what change you wanna make, what thing you wanna improve,

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This is the building block for you being able to do that for yourself. And that brings me to the next thing that I want to talk to you about, which is the five reasons why having a rock solid morning routine matters so much. And I'm going to tell you those five reasons after a short break, because I want to give our amazing sponsors a chance to say a few words.

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I want to give you a chance to send this episode right now to people in your life who are not a morning person, or anyone in your life who's got big goals or things that they want to be doing better because a morning routine is the foundation for all fabulous change. A morning routine is a way that you can create more confidence.

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A morning routine is essential if you're struggling with depression or anxiety, or you simply just want to level up. And you're playing a big game. And so send this to people that you love because we all need this information. And don't you dare go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you after a short break.

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And we're going to dig into the five reasons why having a morning routine matters. Then we're going to go step by step through the six essential steps of your morning routine. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you're learning the six non-negotiable steps of a rock solid morning routine that's all based in science. Exactly what to do and why you need to do it.

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But I want to just unpack even at a deeper level why a morning routine works so that when we jump into the six steps, you're like, give it to me, Mel. Let's go. And I'd like to start with a quote from James Clear, because I think this quote really sums up what a morning routine is. And then we're going to jump into kind of deeper reasons why they're so important.

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So James Clear wrote the book Atomic Habits. He's like the go-to guy in terms of synthesizing habit research and making it understandable. And he has this quote, you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your system.

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Now, if you have a morning routine that is basically hit the snooze button six times and run late for work, never eat breakfast, hydrate on coffee, that's a system. That's one of the reasons why you're not meeting your goals. You may have huge goals, but if your systems don't support those goals of yours, you're going to always fall to how bad the system is. And that's what a morning routine is.

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I have taught myself. how to break through that like, ugh, in the morning and build a science-backed routine. And when you digest and absorb and really put to use everything that I'm about to share with you, it's gonna change the entire trajectory of your day, of your week, of your month, and of your life.

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It's a system. It's a system that can help you rise to higher levels. It's a system that can help you be more energized. It's a system that can help you achieve your goals. And when you think about the simple things that you do every morning as a system, you you can now be very honest with yourself about whether or not you have a system in place that is helping you achieve what you want.

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You can be very clear about whether or not you have a system in place that's helping you feel the way you want to feel every day. And that's the first reason why this matters because a morning routine is just a system and it's fully within your power to change the system, to improve it. And there are reasons why you want to.

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And that brings me to the second reason why your morning routine is so important. This is the only time of the day that you're fully in control. If you really stop and think about how your day goes, the second you look at your phone, the second you walk into work, the second that you check the news, your day is gone. You're now reacting.

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So your only shot at feeling in control is this system we call a morning routine. The things that you do before you do everything for everybody else. The things that you do first thing in the morning that are just for you. And I want you to protect this time. I want you to honor this time.

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I want you to honor yourself by getting very serious about the system that you create first thing in the morning for you. This is what you get to do for yourself before you turn your life and your time and your energy over to everyone else. I mean, you deserve this. And that's why this is so important. You're going to have days, weeks, and months where life is running you over.

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But you want to know what's cool about a morning routine and this system that you can create for yourself is that you can always come back to it. Because when you wake up, you get a fresh slate. You get a clean start. You get to decide today, today I'm going to take control. Today I'm going to do the things that I know just make me feel like myself. Today I'm going to put myself first.

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And that's available to you every single day. And when you have this system in place that you know you can come back to that's grounded in research, you can truly take advantage of the gift that is a new day.

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Another reason why this is so important is you're about to learn, because we're going to dig into this, the benefits for your mind and your body and your spirit of creating a routine and the system. It's just undeniable. What I'm about to teach you in these six steps, it will reduce anxiety. It will lower your stress. It's going to keep your brain energized.

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It's going to help you boost your productivity and your concentration. And check this out, it's even going to help you sleep better. And you deserve all that. And that's why I want you to try this routine I'm about to teach you. Another reason why this is important, and I think you're kind of getting this over and over, is it sets the tone for your day. Who's in charge?

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Are you in charge of your day? Or is what's on the news in charge of your day? You're in charge. And that's what's available to you every single morning that you wake up and you follow these six steps. And finally, it's the single most powerful step of creating new change in your life.

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And if you're interested right now in making changes, the morning routine and what we're about to share with you, this is everything. And so first of all, before we jump into it, because I got a lot to share with you. In fact, this is one of those episodes, if you're watching on YouTube, where I'm not going to look at you a lot because...

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If you want to be happier, if you wanna make more money, if you want to get in better shape, if you'd like to feel a little bit more peaceful, if you want a mindfulness practice, if there's anything in your life that you really wanna improve, having this system in place first thing in the morning, it's like pouring a foundation for a house that you're gonna build. This is what you build on.

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And so let's get into the six things that science says you and I need to be doing in order to set ourselves up for success and build a system that unlocks the potential of your mind, body, and spirit. And the first thing is when that alarm rings, get up and start the day. Do not lie in bed. Do not hit the snooze button. Research shows that lying in bed like I used to do increases rumination.

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It makes your depression and your anxiety worse. And this is all based on research There are so many studies that have proven this that I don't even want to waste the time listing it. In fact, this episode has a very robust notes section. You can always find it at the end of the description.

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You can also go to MelRobbins.com where we have so many resources for every single episode, but the science and the research is very clear. Lying in bed is making how you feel worse, okay? And so how do you get out of bed? First, you can use my five-second rule. I mean, I literally invented a trick to help me get out of bed 15 years ago, and it is super simple.

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As soon as the alarm rings or as soon as your eyes open, you're just gonna count backwards, five, four, three, two, one, boom, get out of bed. Just get out of bed, move.

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And the reason why this works is because I've found that in those moments where you hesitate and you stop and think about getting out of bed, if you hesitate for more than five seconds, you actually will lose all motivation to do it.

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But when you start counting backwards, five, four, three, two, one, and then you move, the second you start counting backwards, five, four, three, two, one, you've made a decision to get up. It's the domino effect. I don't know if you know this, but when you tip a domino,

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that first domino, it moves with a bit of force so that it can start knocking over something that's two to three to four times its size. And so counting backwards is this tiny little micro action that you take that starts the momentum rolling. Boom, get out of bed. Do not pick up your phone. This is critical. Do not pick up your phone.

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I have a rule personally that my phone is in my bathroom because then when the alarm goes off, I'm kind of screwed. I have to get out of bed to turn it off. And so that's one thing that I've done because I know if I have the chance to lay in bed, I just might. So I go five, four, three, two, one, I'm up.

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That sound that you can hear as you're listening, I have pages and pages and pages of research to share with you because this topic is not only fascinating, but the science is very clear. It's very clear what's happening in your brain and your body when you wake up and you need to know about it.

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And another reason why it's so important for you to just five, four, three, two, one, get up is because of the research that you've already learned. Cortisol levels are the highest in the morning. And so if you sit there and marinate in that stress and energy hormone, you will feel more depressed. You will feel less motivated. You will feel more anxious. Those

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things that you're spinning around in your mind, they're gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger, and you're gonna start to doubt yourself. That's why you gotta push through, you gotta get up, and you gotta get going. And that brings me to step number two. Make your bed. Make your bed. You're standing up, You've turned off the alarm.

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You have not looked at your phone because, again, we're taking this time for you. You get 20 to 30 measly minutes, don't you, every morning before you let the world in? Of course you do. So step number two, you're going to make your bed. Now, why is this important? There are so many reasons why.

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You know, for those of us who are not morning people, one reason is because when you make the bed, you're not going to climb back into it, okay? And I know some of you are kind of laughing along, but it's true. But the more important reason is because when you make your bed every morning, it's a super simple thing that you can do that starts to build a little bit of discipline.

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And it's a way for you to just practice this skill where you just do what you need to do no matter how you feel. And one of the reasons why making your bed is a great thing to do right away is because of all this research around clutter.

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I mean, when you walk into an environment where the bed is messy and your laundry's all over the place and things need to be picked up, research shows that it can increase your anxiety. It can make you continue to feel depressed.

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In fact, I'm looking at this one study right now from Bond University in Australia that says your physical environment significantly influences your cognition, your emotions, and subsequent behaviors, including your relationships with other people. And so it's a simple thing that you can do that truly helps you feel like a disciplined person. It removes the visual clutter.

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It prevents you from climbing back in it. And here's the thing that I love the most. It's a gift that you're giving to yourself. Because every time that you walk back into your bedroom for the rest of the day or at the end of the night, you see this beautiful bed. You literally do. It's like this beautiful place for you to climb back into at the end of the day. And you've done that for yourself.

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And it's also very clear what the research says that you and I need to be doing every morning to truly leverage the best of our brain and our body and to set ourselves up for success. And one more thing, we have so many new listeners that if you're brand new and this is the first episode that you're listening to, I just want to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

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And this is one of those things that sounds little, but it's actually really big. When you're taking care of yourself, you make your bed. When you're feeling good about life, you make your bed. When you're on top of your stuff, you've made your bed. It's just a sign, a simple sign that you care about yourself and that you take the time to clean up and tidy things.

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And that's a really important skill in life. And it translates in so many other areas. And so, boom, make your bed. And I'm going to add one more thing to this. For those of you that have a habit of hitting the snooze button or laying there and rotting and looking at your phone, just think about the difference. Think about the difference of just boom, you get up, boom, you make your bed.

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You have gone from a person whose first decision of the day is procrastinating to becoming a person that takes action and a person that has discipline and a person that cares about how you take care of yourself. And that's just in the first two steps. Now let's talk about the third one. The third one you're going to hate and the third one you're going to resist doing.

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But the third one has so much crazy science around it that I wrote an entire bestselling book about it. And that third habit that I want you to do is something that you're gonna add to your morning routine after you brush your teeth. So after you get up, you make your bed, you go to the bathroom, you brush your teeth, I want you to look in the mirror

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I don't want you to say a thing and I want you to simply high five your reflection. I know it sounds crazy cheese ball. I got it. I understand. High five yourself in a mirror, Mel. Give me a break. I was with you getting out of bed with the alarm ring. I was with you and making the bed. I was with you with creating a system, high fiving myself in the mirror. Like, what is this?

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Let me tell you what this is. The science around this is so crazy that I'm going to read from my New York Times bestselling book, The High Five Habit. And the first thing that I'm going to read to you is I'm going to read to you, this is on page 24 of this book.

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The reason why you want to high five yourself in the mirror, and you're not going to say a thing, comes from research from Dr. Lawrence Katz, who's a neurobiologist and researcher at Duke University. And he studies something called neurobics. Now, neurobics is a fancy term that basically describes the fastest and easiest way to create new neural pathways and connections in your brain.

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And the way that you tap into neurobics is you basically take a routine activity, which for you is brushing your teeth, standing there, looking in the mirror. And then you pair it with something unexpected, like all of a sudden high-fiving yourself. That's kind of weird. And what happens is it snaps your brain into attention.

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And according to Dr. Katz, this little unexpected physical movement that you're now adding to something you already do, it's like a brain fertilizer that makes a new habit encode in your brain faster. So you might be wondering, well, what's the new habit, Mel? Well, the new habit's great. It's believing in yourself because now let's unpack what a high five is.

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When you high five someone else, what are you saying? You're saying, I see you. I believe in you. Let's go. You got this. When you high five a team member, that's what you're saying. When you high five a family member, that's what you're saying. When you high five somebody on a team that just screwed up in a huddle, you're saying, shake it off. You got this.

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When you do this every morning in the mirror, you just activated brain fertilizer and you accelerated new wiring for a mindset that goes, I like the person in the mirror. I cheer for the person in the mirror. I believe in the person in the mirror. And it's crazy how this works. In fact, because you're probably like, okay, I kind of get that. Let me tell you something.

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The fact that you have hit play on this conversation about the science of morning routines and the six steps that you need to follow based on science, you know what that tells me about you? It tells me that you're interested in learning more about how you can empower yourself to create a better life. And I think that is so cool that you've taken the time to invest in yourself.

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Would you feel more inclined to create this system for yourself if you knew that this is what all the winning NBA teams do? Yep, they studied NBA teams and high fives. Let me read a little bit about that to you. For those of you that are curious, this is all in chapter two of the High Five Habit book. The chapter is Science Says This Works.

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And the study that I'm about to read to you is on page 22. And it's all about research from UC Berkeley. So UC Berkeley researchers studied NBA players' habits of success, and they took a look at teams in the beginning of their seasons, and they recorded how often players gave each other high fives and other signs of encouragements like a fist bump. Check this out.

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They were able to predict which teams would have the best records at the end of the season based on the number of high fives they were giving each other at the beginning of the season. Why? Well, the best NBA teams, I'm talking the ones who made it to the championships, they were the teams who gave each other the most high fives at the start of the season. Whoa. Why does this matter?

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Well, high fives are about trust. When you high-five a team member, you're lifting them up instantly. The physical touch and the high-five says, I got your back, man. Let's go. We got this. It helps you shake off a bad play. It lifts your mood. It communicates confidence, and it reminds you that you can win. Now, when you do this in the mirror to yourself, you are your own best teammate.

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And you're leveraging this amazing science and the brain fertilizer to accelerate programming a mindset of winning, of resilience, of believing in yourself, and of cheering in yourself. And that's why a silent high five in the mirror right after you brush your teeth is the third science-backed thing that I want you to do.

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This feels like a great moment to hit the pause button so you can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And by the way, make sure that you're sharing this with people in your life who either have trouble getting up and getting going or who are up to big stuff and they need the benefit of everything we're talking about today.

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And don't go anywhere because I'm going to be waiting for you after a very short break and we got so much more to dig into. You're going to love it. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are digging into the extraordinary science around your mornings and the six simple steps that I want you to start following every single day when you wake up.

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And that brings me to number four. Drink a full cup of water. And every time I cover this and I teach this, and in fact, I teach this in a course that I offer once a year called Launch. And people go crazy. They hate this. Drink a cup of water. I don't want to drink. I need coffee. Let me just explain why this matters. First of all, you need water.

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And I promise you, you are going to freaking love this conversation today. And you're going to be able to put everything that you're learning to use. You're going to be able to share it with people that you care about, whether you're the kind of person that can spring out of bed or you're the kind of person like me that you have a hard time getting out of bed.

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And every single one of us underestimates the crucial role that water plays in your body, brain, and spirit operating effectively. And most of us are dragging ourselves out of bed, and the first thing we hydrate with, coffee or tea or something other than water. And let's just stop and consider the importance of water. Water is comprises 45 to 75% of your body weight. That's amazing.

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And 80% of your brain composition. It transports nutrients. It regulates your temperature. It has a huge role to play in lubricating your joints and allowing your internal organs to work properly. It gives structure to your tissues, to your cells. It's critical component of your heart being able to pump. I mean, you can go a month or two, right? Without food.

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You wouldn't last more than a week without water. That's how critical this is. Now, I'm not gonna get into how much do I need to drink all day. We'll do a whole nother episode about hydration and proper hydration and how much you should be drinking. All I'm telling you is step number four of a science-backed morning routine is get water in first thing in the morning.

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And I want you to make it part of your system that you drink a full cup of water before you start slamming the caffeine. And there's so many reasons why this is important. There's an incredible book called Brain Food, The Surprising Science of Eating for Cognitive Power. And in it, it's fascinating the role that water plays.

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For example, did you know that when you don't drink enough water, you want to know what you feel? Brain fog. You're exhausted. you have headaches, and you have mood swings.

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And step four of your new morning routine and the system you're gonna create for yourself of just drinking a cup of water before you do anything else, it's simply just starting you to get aware of how important it is, to become more conscious of it so that you start taking better care of yourself.

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In fact, simply drinking more water, it can be one of the easiest and healthiest changes that you can make for your overall health and for your brain functioning. And here's a huge reason why this matters. You know, I used to be the kind of person that once I dragged myself out of bed and I made my bed and then I high five myself in the mirror, I army crawled to the coffee maker.

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Like I could not start my day without doing a tap suck of the Nespresso machine. I mean, I just literally like, give me the coffee. Give me that. I can't wake up without coffee. I didn't understand the science. And then Dr. Amy Shaw came onto the podcast and explained to me, and I'm going to share it with you so that you don't miss a thing.

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She basically said that if you drink coffee or any form of caffeine first thing in the morning, meaning within the first hour or two of waking up, you are screwing yourself over. Because there is this sleepy chemical that's in your brain called adenosine. And when you wake up, it takes your brain an hour or two to flush the adenosine, this sleepy chemical, out of your brain. So you can wake up.

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Because the fact is I'm not a morning person. And there are some people like my husband that literally, it's like he's a weirdo. The alarm rings and he's like, bing, right out of bed, no drama, no noise, no groaning. He might, you know, a little because we're getting a little bit older, but that's it. Like he just starts his day. Me? Oh my gosh.

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This is why you're groggy. But if you're like the old Mel Robbins and you're army crawling your way to the big gulp cup of coffee first thing in the morning, you know what you're doing? That caffeine in the coffee, it is trapping the adenosine in your brain. The caffeine is preventing your brain from... flushing this sleepy chemical out.

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And so have you ever noticed that if you have coffee first thing in the morning, about two hours later, you're like, I need a second cup. And then halfway through the day, you're like, oh my God, I'm exhausted. I have another cup. I used to be the kind of person that would, I'm almost embarrassed to tell you, would have at least six cups of coffee.

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Then when I moved to lattes, it would be at least three, like double, triple shot lattes. I was chasing the caffeine. This one change, step four, drink a cup of water, full cup of water. First thing when you get up and then wait at least an hour for your first cup of coffee. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. You don't want to. Just try it once, please. Try it once.

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Try it once and see what happens because I'm going to tell you what happened in my life. I drank a cup of water. I set the timer. I was gripping for 90 minutes before I could have my first cup of coffee. And then something crazy happened. I didn't crave a second one. I have gone from being a person who drinks coffee all day long to waking up and drinking a full cup of water.

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I'm not even craving the cup of coffee. I then enjoy a cup of coffee about 90 minutes to two hours later, and I don't ever need a second one. It's incredible. And so that's why I say step four is drink a full cup of water and then try to delay your caffeine for at least an hour. And you know, just as a side, I have to tell you something.

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We did an internal research project with a focus group about what I'm sharing with you right now. And the results were extraordinary. We put a group of people together and we walked them through this morning routine. And the feedback that we got specifically on starting your day and drinking a big cup of water first thing and then delaying caffeine, it was insane. They quit coffee.

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I mean, they'll drink decaf every once in a while, but here's the reason. They're using science to leverage the potential and capacity of your brain power and your natural wiring. See, you don't need to be chasing these things. When you understand the science, you can activate all of the amazing programming and possibility of your mind, body, and spirit, and that's what's available to you.

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And that brings me to number five. Get outside and take in morning light. So we had Dr. Rebecca Robbins from Harvard Medical School on the podcast, and she's a really important expert on this topic because she is a world-renowned expert on sleep. She runs one of the most respected sleep clinics and labs in the world. She's doing research on this.

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Her research is the research everybody who writes books about sleep is actually citing. And she's the one that came in and talked about the importance of exposure to light first thing in the morning for your overall health. And you and I tend to think about things like, okay, got to exercise. We got to eat right. We got to be in great relationships with people. That's all true.

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but you also need to take care of your circadian rhythm. And doing this first thing checks the box. And I love that. First thing, get outside, look out the window, whatever you need to do. Dr. Robbins said that exposure to morning sunlight is crucial to reset your body's internal clock and help you transition into the awake phase.

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Like for me, I feel like, I don't know, that overnight I somehow gained an extra 200 pounds because I feel so heavy and lethargic and I don't want to get out of bed. And I'm starting here because I really want to make sure to validate that

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In fact, getting morning light is one of the most important things that you can do to get better sleep at night. Because when you get morning light, it not only helps you move into an awake phase, it starts the internal timer in your body that starts to count down toward when it's going to be time to go to bed. That's why this matters so much. And I know what you're thinking.

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You're like, Mel, well, what about if it's cloudy? Well, this is what Dr. Rebecca Robbins had to say. Even if it's a cloudy day, getting outside will get you the sunlight exposure that you need in your eyes, and it'll stop the floodgates of melatonin and begin your day. It is a complete myth that a cloudy day can hamper that or dampen that ability. Same thing with a rainy day.

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What's up with my brain and my body that makes it so hard to start the day? Well, your friend Mel, I got the answers. I have dug into the science. I have so much amazing news to share with you. First of all, there are seven reasons why there are a lot of you that have a very hard time getting out of bed. And the good news, you can change that.

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Complete myth that just because it's raining, that the type of light that's coming through the clouds isn't going to help you. Now, you don't want to go out and stare blindly at the sun. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about stepping outside and actually getting the light exposure. And so how much light should you get? Now, I like a 5, 10, 20 rule.

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And a lot of this comes from research that neuroscientist Andrew Huberman of the podcast Huberman Lab has made wildly popular with people right now. But I break it down this way, 5, 10, 20. If it's sunny outside, just be outside for five minutes. If it's cloudy outside, be outside for 10 minutes.

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If it's raining or it's not great outside, or you can only get bright artificial light inside first thing, 20 minutes. That's your rule. And finally, what am I doing? What am I doing after I step outside? You got to move your body. Really, Mel? Yes, you do.

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Now, if I got to wave a magic wand and I were able to tell you exactly what to do, for my age group, I'm a 56-year-old woman, it's all about strength training and getting outside and walking. But I'm going to tell you something. For this system, all I'm going to ask you to do, 10-minute walk. That's it. 10-minute walk every morning.

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And why am I asking you to just add to your system a 10-minute walk? There's a number of reasons why. First of all, the research is very clear and it's also shocking the benefit that a simple 10-minute walk can have on your health. It can add years to your life. But I also want to highlight the things that it does for you immediately.

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Like how you feel when you start the walk versus how you feel 10 minutes later is shocking. And I think you kind of know this, but it's important to go through this so that I just remind you of why this matters and why it's important that this is part of your system every single morning. It clears out any of the overwhelm and the overthinking and the anxiety that you may have.

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It immediately boosts your mood. There is this research around what happens when you're walking. The term is called forward ambulation. That sounds like super fancy, right? Which makes me want to do it because you and I hear walk and we're like, oh, for God's sakes, a walk for real, Mel? Yes. Forward ambulation is what's happening when you're walking.

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See, you get into this mode where you're walking, you're moving your legs, you're swinging your arms, and you get into this optic and auditory flow state where your brain is now kind of having to absorb all this input around you from the path that you're on to the traffic going by to the birds in the trees. And this input changes how you see the world.

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that there are a lot of us, and you may be one of them, or you may love someone, maybe one of your kids, maybe it's your roommate, maybe it's one of your siblings. There are a lot of us that have a hard time getting out of bed. So let me preview what we're going to cover. First of all, I'm going to walk through a number of reasons why you may not be a morning person.

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This input as you're walking and you've got this new optic and auditory flow, what does it do? It quiets your anxiety. Why? Because there's all this new input. Instead of sitting there in your bed ruminating and feeling overwhelmed, you're flipping on this switch inside your brain that helps with overthinking.

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And what's super cool is even if you have low vision, and we have an extraordinary producer on our team that's legally blind, it still works. And the reason why is because sound becomes your primary sense and the same phenomenon happens with auditory flow.

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So whether you have visual or auditory flow, it has a powerful documented effect on your nervous system and it changes the way your brain is working. And the reason why I recommend a 10-minute walk is because that's what the literature says. That's all that you need. You can put your kids in the stroller and go around the block. You can find 10 minutes to walk the dogs real quick.

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And that's why I'm saying get out there for 10 minutes. And have you realized that you can combine five and six? Yeah. So when you step outside to get light into your eyes first thing in the morning to set the circadian rhythm, just start walking for 10 minutes. It's going to put you in a better mood. It's going to make you more productive. This is all research backed.

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And if you do it without being on the phone or listening to something, meaning you take a quiet walk, The research is incredible about how it helps you create a stronger, more relaxed, and confident mindset. And that's why I say that the sixth step is a 10-minute walk outside. And the other reason why I'm focusing on 10 minutes is because systems work when you can do them.

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And I don't want your morning routine to be so complicated and time-consuming that you have to opt out of it. I want you to build a morning routine and create a system that starts your day that puts you first, that leverages the science, that is something that you can do whether you have a super busy day or you're on vacation.

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I want you to be able to use the same system whether you're in a hotel or you're visiting friends or you're at home. Because if you can do the system anywhere, the system is truly going to work for you. And so let me recap what that system is.

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starting tomorrow morning, or anytime you decide this is your reset, this is how you take control of the time that you have first thing in the morning, and you set yourself up for success using all of the best research to tap into the potential of your mind, body, and spirit. This is also the foundation for you being laser-focused on making the changes and doing what you need to do.

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And you can kind of sense that when you stack these six things up, you're now on a roll and you can add anything you want to this, but these are the basics. So let me walk you through them. And then I'm going to share one more thing that I do. Number one, the alarm rings, you're up. Five, four, three, two, one, get up, get going.

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Because once you get up and you get going, you're going to keep going. Second thing you're going to do, you're going to make your bed. It's just simple discipline. It's a wonderful thing to do for yourself. And you become the kind of person that just does what needs to get done. And you have higher standards for yourself. I love that.

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Third, you're going to leverage this fascinating science around aerobics. And as you're brushing your teeth or after you brush your teeth, just high five yourself in the mirror. Don't say a word. That's it. Number four, you got to drink a big cup of water. Big cup of water, start the hydration train first thing in the morning and delay caffeine for at least an hour and see what happens.

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And if you're somebody who springs out of bed, I still want you to listen to this because it's going to give you a greater understanding of what someone else in your life that you care deeply about is dealing with and why it may be difficult for them to just get up and go. Then what we're going to talk about is a number of reasons why morning routines really do matter and the benefit of it.

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Number five, get yourself outside. Remember the 5, 10, 20 rule for sunny, cloudy or rainy days. Or if you can't get outside, artificial light. And finally, number six, 10 minute walk. 10 minute walk does extraordinary things. Now, that whole thing takes about 14 minutes, if you really think about it. Get out of bed, that's 10 seconds. Make your bed, that's a minute.

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High five your mirror, that's a couple seconds. Drink a cup of water, depends whether or not you chug it, could be another 20 seconds. Get outside and take the 10, I mean, this is a no brainer. This is something that you can do any morning, anywhere. It's a system that sets you up for success. And it's also a system that helps you lower anxiety.

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It helps you push through depression and find your energy again. It's a system that helps you tap into what's possible. And then when you get back from your walk, add whatever you want. For you, maybe it's meditating. Maybe it's journaling. Maybe there's something else that you want to add in.

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There are lots of mornings where I do my 10 minute walk and then I head straight to the mat and now I'm doing strength training. But this core six step principle is the system that I use. It's the system that makes the difference for me. when I go through those periods where I don't do it, I feel terrible. And I love that I can wake up any single day and just come right back to it.

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And when I follow this system, you know what I feel? I feel like myself. I feel good because I'm taking care of myself. I feel more powerful because I'm not letting my emotions or my mood or the things that are going on in my life or my business to dictate what I do. This system shows me that I'm in control because I can do these six things in my life no matter where I am or how I'm feeling.

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And that makes all the difference in the world. And if you do that, You got the formula for success. You got the formula for supporting yourself. You understand the simple things that you can do to leverage all of this remarkable science.

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And I'm also gonna encourage you, if you wanna go deeper, make sure you check out the notes section of this episode because we have summarized all of this on our website at melrobbins.com. We have resources for you to take a look at, but this is the basics section and the building blocks for you to tap into your own potential. Oh, and I almost forgot to tell you the seventh thing.

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So when I'm done with this system, you know what I do? I sit down and I take 15 minutes. Before I look at my phone, I haven't even looked at my phone yet. I haven't answered emails yet. I haven't looked at social media. I mean, I am selfish in the morning. This is my time.

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So when I'm done with that walk, I come right down to my kitchen table and I sit down and I spend 15 minutes on a project that matters to me. And the reason why I do this 15 minutes, I call it my hot 15, is every single morning is because I know based on the research that that moment right there, after I've taken my walk, after I've done these six things, my mind is primed for focus.

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And finally, we're going to jump into the six non-negotiable steps of your morning routine, what science says about it. So here's the first provocative thing I want you to consider. Even if... you're listening to me right now and you are saying to yourself, okay, I got to listen to this because I know morning routines are important. I see it all over the place and I got to get a morning routine.

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I am motivated. I am able to push something forward. And because we're going to be doing another episode about this where I dig into your questions, make sure you submit them. Whether you put them in the comments or you go to melrobbins.com, this would be better. Go to melrobbins.com slash podcast. You're going to find a forum where you could submit topics and questions.

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You can submit them there and we're going to compile them all. And we will do a really amazing episode answering your questions all about optimizing your morning. And we're going to have that coming up really soon. I'm so excited that you listened to this and thank you for listening all the way to the end.

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There's still more to come and I wanted to be sure to tell you in case no one else tells you that I love you. I believe in you. I also believe in these systems. And the reason why is because systems help you create a better life. Systems ensure that it's not your mood or your feelings or what's going on that determine what happened in your life. It's you. That you have...

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the ability to support yourself and to set yourself up for success. And there is no doubt in my mind that when you implement what I just shared with you into your life, you will be very, very surprised by how it impacts you. Alrighty, I will see you in the very next episode. And you, you already have a morning, like, hold on a second. How are we doing so far? Good. Is this good? Okay, great.

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And here's why I want, here's why I want you to understand this. What did they say? They quit coffee. Okay, great. Like they don't have to do it. Yeah. Okay, great. Great. Yeah. There it is right there. Okay, great. No problem. Okay. Woo. Okay. Good, right? You know your stuff now. Yes. Yes. That's great. Thank you guys. Great job, everybody. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.

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This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.

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I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

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And so I'm going to listen. I'm going to figure this out. Even if you don't think you have a morning routine right now, you do. Hitting the snooze button five times in the morning, that's a morning routine. Reaching for your phone first thing and laying there and scrolling through social media for 45 minutes, that's a morning routine.

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Rolling over and putting the pillow back over your head, that's a morning routine. The thing that you do right now in the morning, every single morning, whether it's working for you or not, that's your routine. And so we just need to start with the truth, which is you do have a morning routine. And what we're going to confront today together is, is it actually working for you?

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Are you working against the science or are you working with it? Are you following the steps that could set you up for success or are you just kind of doing what you've always done and then you beat yourself up because it's not creating better results? And so first things first, accept that whatever it is that you're doing,

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You wake up, you're hungover, you're just devastated with anxiety, you hit the snooze, hit the snooze, hit the snooze, hit the snooze, and then it's an emergency, and then you rocket out of bed, and then you're racing around, and then you're late, and then you're racing out the door, and you didn't have breakfast, and you didn't exercise, and you left the house without your wallet.

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That used to be me. And that can become a routine. And the good news is you can change it. And that's why this matters. And so now that we're on the same page, and now that we've kind of gotten rid of the story about where you're at or whether or not you already have this handled, now I want to jump into some facts, okay?

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If you're the kind of person like my husband who can just spring out of bed, I just want to say... You won the lottery. Congratulations. You don't need to rub it in. But it's really important for you to hear what I'm about to share with you because I think it'll give you more compassion and understanding around the people in your life who can't just spring out of bed.

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And it will also help you understand how to better support them. Now, you may be working a late shift, which means you don't actually have the same schedule as anyone else. When I was a young lawyer just out of law school, I used to work the night shift in court. It was so discombobulating. I mean, you're not even a morning person because you're really like stopping work in the morning.

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And I have also dug into the science and I have six irrefutable, I'm talking non-negotiable things that you need to be doing every single morning when you wake up. And that's whether you consider yourself a morning person or not. And here's the thing, if you are a morning person, you can just spring out of bed. I guarantee you, you need to hear this.

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Here's a second reason. And this one's very interesting. If you're retired, or you're a new empty nester, or your routine is out of whack. Check this out. There's research around this. University of Wisconsin study said that when people transition to retirement, they often start sleeping longer, and they go to bed later, and they wake up later.

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And this may be a reason why it's harder for you to get out of bed right now, because your routine is out of whack because your life just changed. Another reason? Maybe you have really amazing sheets. I mean, this is a problem for me. Like, I truly invested in smooth, cozy bamboo sheets. The bed's too nice. Like, that's part of the problem. Like, why would you want to get out of bed?

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And I mean that truly. I found this fourth reason to be super interesting. Genetics. This is from a study published in Nature Communications. There are 351 genetic markers linked to being a morning person.

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And a recent study that was published in Genome Biology and Evolution said that morning people, those of you who can just spring out of bed like my husband, that's an inherited trait from Neanderthal ancestors. That's kind of cool, probably because if you slept in, some sort of saber-toothed tiger would be gnawing on your rear end before you woke up.

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And here's one more study that I found, this one from Harvard Medical School. So if you think about your circadian rhythm, which is basically that sort of 24-hour program that runs in the background that truly runs your entire body functioning, okay? And it's tied to your ability to sleep and so many other things. Your circadian rhythm is generated by your internal biological clock.

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And according to Harvard Medical School, that internal biological clock, it varies from person to person. But the good news is there are things that you can do, even though your internal biological clock is personal to you, there are things that you can do to optimize it. And you're going to learn about it today.

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Some of us have a predisposition to spring out of bed like my husband, and some of us have a predisposition to be like a hunk of meat laying there marinating in the morning like I do. Good to know. No reason to make yourself wrong then, right? You got to work with what you have. Here's the fifth reason, and this one really rang true for me. Trauma.

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See, trauma and past trauma, it activates a freeze response in your body. And the University of Arkansas did a study about this. And they found that when you've experienced a traumatic event, it can disrupt your sleep. And PTSD, what they've found in the research is that PTSD is linked to you having sleep issues. And what happens when you don't get a good night's sleep?

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Like you can't truly drop into deep sleep. You wake up and you're exhausted. And you're exhausted, not because you're not a morning person, you're exhausted because past trauma is preventing you from getting a good night's sleep. And when you wake up and you're exhausted because you didn't sleep well, what do you want to do? You want to go back to sleep. You feel even heavier.

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Because you not only need to understand the other people in your life who can't get out of bed, but you also have to understand yourself. I mean, you may know what you're doing, but do you know if or why it's working? You should. And by the time you and I are done today, you're going to know the six steps. that science says you need in order to set your morning up for success.

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That's why it's hard to get out of bed. And for me, connecting the way that I felt in the morning to past traumatic experiences was liberating because I realized, oh, wait a minute, this isn't a deficiency. This is just something that I need to heal. And when I understand, oh, there it is again, I'm waking up in the morning in a freeze response, I'm just going to push through it.

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That is empowering. The sixth reason, and this so many of you and your kids are experiencing right now, and that's anxiety. Anxiety is the highest for a lot of people first thing in the morning. And one of the reasons why is, and we're going to dig into this when we get into the research around the six steps that you're going to take and how I'm going to teach you to work with

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the science and work with the natural wiring of your body. Anxiety can be higher in the morning for a simple reason. Cortisol, which is a stress hormone, or a lot of people call it an energy hormone, cortisol is highest in the morning because cortisol helps you wake up. That's why it's there. But the problem is, If cortisol remains elevated, you're going to feel more anxious.

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And this isn't just your friend Mel Robbins who has a history with anxiety telling you this. This is the research. Like if your energy and stress hormone is super elevated first thing in the morning, of course you're going to feel anxious. But if you don't take steps to start to lower it and regulate it, your anxiety is going to be humming all day long.

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And if you've ever woken up and the first thing that you feel is anxious and your mind starts spinning and your heart is racing, you don't wanna face the day. You wanna hide from it. And that's what I did for years. That's why I was hitting the snooze button. And there's two other reasons why your anxiety might be higher in the morning. Drinking.

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So if you have been drinking the night before, guess what? One of the number one symptoms of a hangover anxiety, because as your body is processing the alcohol overnight, your blood sugar is dropping and your anxiety is now spiking. And so if you're waking up for anxiety, ask yourself, did I drink last night? Okay, bingo.

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And the third reason why anxiety can be higher in the morning is because your blood sugar levels are often lower in the morning and that can lead to morning anxiety. And so this is super important because when your blood sugar drops and your body then tries to bring it up, what it's doing is it's pumping adrenaline into your body, which then what? stimulates fight or flight, which what?

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Makes you feel more anxious. I have woken up and felt anxiety is the first thing I've felt in my body since I was 15 years old. Like this is like my alarm clock in the morning. I would wake up, oh, there's the anxiety. I had no idea that drinking was part of the problem. And the anxiety was present because my body is now processing alcohol while I'm sleeping.

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I had no idea of the stored trauma, which also is why I was waking up in a freeze and fight or flight response. I had no idea about the blood sugar dropping. And I had no idea that cortisol levels are the highest first thing in the morning. I just felt like I was damaged goods that was going to feel this way for the rest of my life.

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And when you understand what's happening in your body and you realize it's not you, you This can be explained. And when you understand it, To me, it makes me more motivated to want to take the steps that are going to help me face it and quiet it and experience life differently. And that's what's available to you.

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And when you do, you'll not only sharpen your routine, you're gonna squeeze even more out of your day. So let's get into it. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited to talk to you today. And I love this topic. And it may surprise you to know that I'm not a morning person, not at all. But I love talking about morning routines. I have so much to share with you.

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That's what's available to the people that you love when you understand this and you follow the six things I'm going to tell you. And the seventh reason why so many of you do not consider yourself a morning person is because of depression. Do you know that based on the research, 75% of people that have depression have a hard time getting out of bed? Why?

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Well, one of the reasons why is because depression just covers you with this kind of sense of heaviness, this real dark cloud. My husband had about a very, very serious depression. It's very scary when it happens. And one of the big problems with depression is that your depression lies to you. And it makes you feel like you can't do the things that alleviate the depression.

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And lying in bed, I'm sure you've probably heard the term bed rotting, right? Where you just lay in bed and you think about your problems and you let the heaviness take over. It is an extraordinarily common symptom of mood disorders like depression. This comes from a study out of Emory University.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Have you noticed how expensive basic things have become? I mean, egg prices, they've doubled and that's not even for organic. It's absurd. Don't even get me started on the price of rent, insurance, co-pays, student loans. I mean, there's lots of people going on and on about what's actually causing this.

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It just worked at the gas station. Wow. Let me, let me, I'm just going to run out and just, you can hold the girl. I'm going to run out to the car because I've got some money out there.

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Yes. And then the anger that I'm in this situation, because as much as I wanted to blame Chris or the business, I was just as big of a cheerleader. I said, let's go all in.

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I ignored the advice of the experts. Like I like did this too. So how did you start making money?

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Tell you what, step by step, you can get good with it. And that's what our guest today is also going to tell you. Because just like me, he's been there. 14 years ago, he was broke, sleeping on his sister's couch. But today, he is proof that a complete financial transformation is possible for you too. You can get out of debt. You can turn things around and you can change your financial future.

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Well, yeah, but I think the important thing here is that you were not sitting on your sister's couch.

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You took massive action.

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And by the way, reaching out through LinkedIn made you an expert on LinkedIn, which is what you then started marketing yourself at.

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Wow. As the LinkedIn guy.

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Because you're like around the country. I'm like, how the hell does he pay? So now I know how you're paying for it. You're I was taking the bus.

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Of course. And I think it's also important to hear, you're talking about a five-year period. Five-year period. And you're also talking about, okay, first I took the bus. I'm sleeping on people's couches. I'm saving, saving, saving, saving. And five years of just putting in the reps and doing, pushing this forward, you're now in a different place. And what happens?

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And yes, you can get good with money. And today, he is going to give you simple steps and habits to follow so that three months from now, things will look and feel very different than it does today. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited for our conversation today. I'm excited that you're here.

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Like you were like a- There was like a thousand people in the world podcasting.

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Nobody knew what this was. You just were like, huh.

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Oh, but geez, very the lead for crying out loud.

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But again, this is that five-year run. When you were the LinkedIn guy sleeping on couches and taking buses and sitting in the middle row of the back of the airplane to try to get places, and you're like putting in the Lego bricks to build something, that's exactly what you were doing when you jumped into podcasting.

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What I love about the story, Lewis, Because here we are 12 years later, you have one of the most successful podcasts in the world. You're an inspiration to certainly me. Like you're one of the people I used to look at and be like, why didn't I start podcast? Look, Lewis is already doing it. I can't, you know, like literally you inspired me. You blazed a trail for people.

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You showed people it was possible to build a business around it and to make a difference.

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You know, what's interesting, Louis, is that if I think back to how scared and paralyzed I was at that period in my life, my story for quite a while was we're never going to get out of this. I'm never going to fix this. I will always be this stuck. I will always, I will never figure this out. We're going to lose everything.

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And I can see for months and months telling myself that story kept me spiraling in place and it hid from at least my view and my motivation that My ability to see some of the things that the experts said, this is what you do when you're in that situation.

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It certainly doesn't change things overnight, but there are simple actions you can take that if you felt like, okay, I'm going to figure this out. okay, I'm smart enough to listen to Lewis and to read Make Money Easy and to listen to information that is going to help me because people have been in the situation before that you can actually figure this out and that you can learn to make money easy.

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It is always an honor to spend time with you, to be together. If you're a new listener, ooh, you've picked a winner. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And because you made time to hit play and to listen to this particular episode... I know you're the type of person who values your time. And what's that saying? Time is money. You want to make more money. You want to get good with money.

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Right.

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And it's too hard for me to figure this out. And it's too hard for me to get out of debt.

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Are there commonly agreed to steps that after 12 years of interviewing so many financial experts on the School of Greatness that help you manifest money, success, and happiness, Lewis?

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Okay.

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So if you were giving advice to you when you're on your sister's couch stuffing broccoli in your pocket set, like you got nothing, dude. How do you be generous and adopt that when you feel like you have nothing to give?

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And not only do you want to get good with money, you want to transform your financial future. I'll tell you what, you're in the right place. And if you chose to listen to this because someone shared this episode with you, I just think that's so cool because it means you have people in your life who not only care about you, they want you to make money.

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Well, I love that because when you are really struggling, you tend to close yourself off to the world. And so I love this advice because energetically, you can feel like you're spinning. Yeah. that am I doing anything to actually drive this forward? And you did that by just taking the action.

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It's like me opening up these bills and just being like, can't pay that today, but I can call the company and explain what's going on. You know, I don't have a job today, but I can call a friend and start networking about what's going on. And I just kept telling myself, I'm going to get myself out of this. I don't know how.

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Mm-hmm.

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Alrighty, Lewis, let's give the person who's listening a chance to share this conversation with people in their life that they care about, who they want to learn all of this amazing stuff, and they want to have a better financial future. And I also want to give our sponsors a chance to say a few words. So don't go anywhere. Lewis and I are going to be waiting for you after a short break.

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He has so much more to share with you. It is so fun to get good with money, and that's what we're doing today. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. We are here today. I'm with my friend, Lewis Howes. I'm so excited you're spending time together with us because we are talking about the simple habits and steps that you can take to change your financial future.

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They want you to have a fantastic financial future. And look, You're not going to be rich by the end of this episode, but you're going to leave with something more valuable. You're going to get the building blocks and the simple tools that will create a different financial future for you.

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So Lewis, what do you think the top skills are? Let's say the person listening is like, Lewis, if I want to put myself in a position in the next two years to be able to earn six, seven figures, is there a particular skill that I should be leaning into right now?

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I'm like, lead myself. How the hell am I gonna make six figures lower?

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And you're also going to learn the step-by-step approach from two people who had to completely rebuild their financial life from the ground up. So if you've been bad with money, today you're going to learn how to start getting good with money. And you don't need to be embarrassed by where you are because I'm going to tell you where I've been. And it's probably way worse than where you are today.

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I love what you just said, because one of the things that I got from reading your book and digging into it is that you're revealing all of the mistakes that we've made that we didn't know we were making based on our past or the stories we tell ourself or self-doubt that put obstacles between us and the money that we can create that make it feel hard and complicated.

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I am so in. Let's jump into the tools.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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A money wound? What does that mean?

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Okay, a money story.

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See, I used to be like a walking financial red flag. If you were a credit card company, I would not have given Mel Robbins a credit card. If I were a bank, I would not have given Mel Robbins a mortgage. If I were a bill that was being delivered to Mel Robbins' house, I would not have expected to have been paid.

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Well, what you write about this on page 63 of the book, and you talk about how the first question was named someone who walked on the moon. Second one was named the first three presidents of the United States. And, you know, I still don't know the answers.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know what? We still love you, Lewis. Most of us don't either. And you're right. Not only was I not smart enough to join the club, but I had to pay to have friends. I later came to realize that the deeper message I took away from this experience wasn't just that I didn't have much money, but that I didn't have much value. Yes. And so I can see how the story and you write down.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So the first kind of struggle that people have is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yes.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I'm about to tell you some very embarrassing stories about how bad I used to be with money. So if you've got unpaid bills, if you're living paycheck to paycheck, if you've got insane, embarrassing credit card debt or student loans that are burying you alive, I have been there. I know that pain because I have felt that pain. And I need you to hear me say this. You can get good with money.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know, not really. It's interesting because I never heard my parents talk about money.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I don't know what that means, but I never heard them talk about money. They were both extremely hardworking. And I do remember my vivid, vivid memory of both my grandmother on the big cattle farm that my mom grew up in. She would sit in her house coat at the end of the day with one of those little tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, like calculator things.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And she would be balancing the cash receipts from the roadside farm stand. And then when I grew up, my mom would literally be tallying and paying bills and balancing the checkbook. And that's the only conversation that I ever heard about money. Now, my husband, on the other hand, grew up with a family that there was a lot of shame around money.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Like his dad started to ascend in his career when Chris was in high school. But there was a lot of don't get used to this. This isn't yours. You don't deserve that. You know, you need to pay your own way, like even though there was money. And so my husband was very, very well, not anymore. He's changed his story around money, but very tense. Very restrictive. A lot of, I don't deserve this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So, Lewis, how does improving your money story help you when you feel lost?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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But today I want you and I to talk about what do you do about it? What do you do when you feel overwhelmed by the cost of living or overwhelmed by paying your bills or overwhelmed by managing your money? Like every time you log into your bank account, you're feeling panicked. Well, I want you to hear me when I tell you this. You're not alone.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Let me see if I can, like, unpack. Because I think I know what you're saying. And so I want to make sure as you're listening to Lewis... And maybe you're the 23-year-old who's scared you're never going to be able to move out of your parents' house or ever afford a house of your own. Or maybe you're like my husband and I were, and you're now in a situation where you thought you'd be further along.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And you're now just paycheck to paycheck. When you say free, I think I know what you mean. What I can recognize in that word if I go the opposite. So if freedom is one extreme that's available if I change my story about money, the opposite of that is imprisoned.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Mm-hmm.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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If you're imprisoned by your debt like I used to be, and you're also keeping yourself trapped there with the story you're telling yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Wait, were you there with me? How do you know that's what I was saying, Lewis?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Oh, isn't that true? Well, and also like if you can't pay your bills.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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This feels like a great moment to hit the pause button, Louis, and give our sponsors a chance to share a few words.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And I also want to give you a chance to share this episode with people that you care about, people that deserve to have a great financial future and that need to be reminded of the simple things they can be doing now to change the trajectory of their life and the amount of money that they make. So don't go anywhere. We got more to share with you when we return.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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In fact, you can learn how to be great with it. It took me 15 years to climb out of the financial hellhole that I had created for myself and learn the skills and habits that led me to where I am today. And I want you to learn from my mistakes. So today, I'm gonna walk you step-by-step through the things that you should be doing immediately to change your financial future starting today.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And Louis and I are going to be waiting for you after a short break. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Thank you for still being here. Thank you for spending time listening to this. I am so excited that my buddy Lewis Howes is here and that we are talking all things money. So, Lewis, what's the second step?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Okay, so how do I get a better mindset?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I agree. I agree.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So is it actually possible? Because here's the thing. You've rewired your mind.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I certainly have. It's a constant work in progress. Okay, but I've clawed my way out of that. People are like, how did you get out of that? I'm like, 50. 15 years of hard work.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know, I get a lot out of that because when I think back to, like, it was in my freaking 40s. I was supposed to feel like I'm on the uptick now. And so I felt all the regret and the beat down, none of which helped me. to climb out of the debt. What helped me to climb out of debt was to get serious that I actually wanted to.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And so I think it's really important for you to understand it's not gonna be easy. It's not easy to open up your bills. It's not easy to look at your bank account and see where the money is going. It's not easy to recognize that you're paying for apps and you're paying for subscriptions, and you're paying for things that you don't use, and that you got to tighten up the belt.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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But when you get very clear that you value something different than where you are, I have no doubt in my mind that no matter how old you are, or how young you are and in the hole you are with student debts, that you can start to chip away at this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And look, it just started with opening of the bills, which I had been avoiding doing. It started with calling the credit card companies. It started with printing out my actual monthly bank statement and highlighting all the dumb ways I was spending money. It started with looking at, you know, the savings that I did have.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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It started with having conversations with family members about where we actually were. It started with really questioning, can we afford to hold onto this house? Can we afford to have this car? Can we afford to be a Netflix subscriber?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I'm gonna be doing it with the help of a very good friend of mine who is our guest in our Boston studios today. I'm talking about the one and only Lewis Howes. Lewis is a two-time New York Times bestselling author. He's also a two-time All-American athlete.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I mean, that's a level of honesty you have to get to because I think, you know, you look a lot at like how much you earn and you forget to look at, well, how much is actually going out the door? And you're not even looking at it because you're telling yourself you're bad with money and you feel demoralized about the price of everything. Well, look at where your money is going.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Just shifting that small thing. When you send the check to the student loan, you're just like, thank you. I'm proud of myself that I can afford to do this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I'm grateful that I have an education.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You may recognize his name or his voice because for the last 12 years, he has hosted the School of Greatness podcast, where he interviews some of the most successful people on the planet in business, entertainment, sports, science, health, medicine, money, and so much more. And here's what I love about Lewis.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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No, but I'm proud of the fact that I can write a check. So is there a statement or a mantra or something that you would recommend based on all the research that you've done, the people that you've spoken to, that if somebody doesn't even know how to reset their mindset, here's something you could adopt and just start saying to yourself.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Oh God, but what if you're like, but it doesn't, but it doesn't, Lewis.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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What is a meaningful money mission?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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It's so true. And especially right now, I see this like epidemic of people seeing things on social media and the mission is get, get, get, get, get, get, get, spend, spend, spend, look better. And what you're talking about is if you don't have a powerful enough why, that's tied to values and then some sort of plan for what you want to achieve and why, then you're going to be rudderless. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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He's been where I was, dead broke, no clue of what to do next, but he figured it out, just like I figured it out, and that means you can figure it out for you too. And today, he and I are joining forces to help you unlock your financial greatness. And what I love is that Lewis, he's just a regular guy. We're not talking fancy degrees or complicated talk about markets.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Would you talk to the, like a 20 year old that's listening? How do you create a money mission? Because for me, when Chris and I were really, really struggling financially, my mission became safety.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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100%.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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100%.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know, what's interesting is that I can see how particularly if you take the struggle around not having a money mission. And so let's just say you're in your 20s.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yes, exactly. Correct.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So having a true mission is giving yourself the time and space to say, this is what I want my life to look like.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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He was able to turn his life around using the tools he's going to share with you today. He's also written a brand new book called Make Money Easy, which I've read and it's fantastic. So are you ready to get good with money? I thought so. So please help me welcome my friend Lewis Howes to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Lewis Howes, welcome to Boston. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know what I love is I think that it feels attainable and dare I say exciting to give yourself a three-month money mission. Like just write it out for yourself. What is your mission around money in the next three months? Is it to learn more? Is it to spend less? Is it to pay off one credit card? Is it to learn how to cook so that you're not spending your money going out?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Like a mission that gives you a purpose. And then if you also combine that, Louis, with the things you just said, where every day you're like, I have a good relationship with money. I'm learning about money. You start to say things positive tied to that mission.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Well, just one shift that you could make if you truly want to change your relationship with money is notice the input on social media and notice where you spend your time.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yeah, are you watching content or listening to content that makes you want to spend money you don't have? Or are you actually listening and watching content that teaches you how to become better with money?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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If you're missing mentors- Mm-hmm. The School of Greatness is an extraordinary podcast. It's been around for more than a decade. I think you celebrated your 12th year anniversary this year. And some of the most successful episodes that you have done in those 12 years are with financial experts, with billionaires, with people that are wildly successful.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know, one other thing I'm going to say is we've all had that friend who... all of a sudden drops out of the social scene. And then you see them six months to a year from now, and they're completely ripped.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Different human being. They've been training for a marathon. They've made this decision. I'm just out of the party scene. I'm going to get serious about my health. And you're like, what happened? And In that instance, you know, they got sick and tired of where they were. They said, this isn't working anymore.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I have to change my story about myself and I need to wake up every day and kind of align my actions and my time with this mission. And I think we see it with health, but it's the exact same thing with money.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I am so fired up that you're here. I'm pumped. Well, I wanna congratulate you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Well, isn't that also why we spend a lot of money we don't have? Because we want people to think a certain thing about us?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So, Lewis, I want to ask you the question that you ask all your podcast guests. You've asked me. Oh, man. Now I'm going to ask you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I have to reflect on this.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Imagine it's your last day on Earth. Yep. Many, many, many years from now. You've accomplished everything you've ever dreamed of. But for whatever reason, you sold your library of content. So you have no access to it. Uh-huh. It's all been taken down by the person that purchased it. But you get to leave behind three truths, three lessons that you want to leave with the world.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I think this is your best work ever.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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What would those three things be?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And it is hitting the world at a moment where money feels so hard and finances feel hard and the news headlines are hard. And so I cannot wait for you to share with us how to make money easy.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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What are your parting words, Lewis?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know what I love about what you just said, Lewis, is that At the end of the day, it's really just about empowering yourself to live a great life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And I just want to thank you for everything that you shared today, because taking control of your financial future and telling yourself a different story and creating different beliefs and taking the steps that lead to a different future, that helps you build a great life. So thank you.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And I also want to thank you. I want to thank you for being here and for taking the time to listen to something that is going to help you learn how to be good with money. You deserve to have a fantastic financial future and you can do everything that Lewis and I share with you today. Yes, you can. And the fact that you chose to listen to this and invest time in learning is evidence that

The Mel Robbins Podcast

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And I wanted to start by having you speak directly to the person who is with us right now. This is somebody who does not have a lot of time, but they have made time to be able to learn from you. Could you tell them what they might expect to change about their life if they take everything that you and I are about to share with them today and they put it to use?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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that you are going to do it. So thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to tell you that I love you. I love you for listening to this. I love you for investing time in learning about how to improve your life. I also believe in your ability to create a better life.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And there's no doubt that what you learned today, it's gonna help you do that. Alrighty, I'll see you in a few days. I'll be waiting for you to welcome you in to the very next episode as soon as you hit play. I'll see you there. Lewis Howes, welcome to Boston. Welcome to Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so fired up that you're here.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Well, at least you got to wear your coat for the first time in four years.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yeah. You're making money easy. You're making everything easy, my friend.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Holy cow. I got to go to the bathroom.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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things will look and feel very different than it does today. Ooh, that's a good one.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Wow.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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One in three working adults lives paycheck to paycheck right now. And I know exactly how that feels. The pressure, it is crushing. And you start to feel like nothing is ever going to change. When I was 41 years old, my husband and I, we were $800,000 in debt. I mean, we could barely buy gas or groceries. And I believe for a period of time,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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I love that. And the other thing that is applicable here is that if you're listening and you're in the middle of reinvention, because something has happened in your life, or you're in a decade where you feel like you don't know who you are or what your purpose is, and you're just feeling overwhelmed and lost, you could actually find purpose by saying, I'm going to learn how to be good with money.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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But if we go back in time... Mm-hmm. Because I think your story is very relatable. You have no money. You're sleeping on your sister's couch. How old are you at this point?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So could you put us at the scene and tell us what was happening? And then once you put us there, I'd love to know how would you have described your relationship with money or what the person looked like?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Got it. So, but back then you had a sense of purpose. So you were directed, so you weren't screwed like a lot of us are in our 20s.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Got it. So is there also this sense that In looking back, that at that exact moment, even though you were hand to mouth, literally, you were not stressing about money because you had something bigger that you were focused on.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And then bare necessities were covered.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You can buy a lot of ramen with $250 a week.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So you're like 23 years old with your hand permanently in a high five for six months. You can't walk. You have no money. You are no longer on the team.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And it makes sense that you would not feel motivated to get a job or to feel like you had any sense of purpose. And I think that this moment of the story is... a lot of people can relate to whether or not you were going for a dream or not, the sense of, I'm just existing right now.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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that that would be my life forever, that I would never get control of my money. And if I could go back in time and talk to the 41-year-old version of myself, you know what I would tell her? I would say, Mel, I know this is scary, but you can figure this out. And even though you've been bad with money in the past, Mel, because that's how you get $800,000 in debt, because you're bad with money,

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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You know, that's exactly how I felt. I mean, and here you are 23. I was 41 when this happened. If, you know, you're listening and you don't know kind of how I got started, it's very similar to Lewis and right around the same time, right around 2008, my husband had got into the restaurant business and we had secured the whole thing with our house. like complete morons.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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We also cashed out every credit card we could get and took out a home equity loan, cashed out the kids' college savings, the 401ks, all of it. All of it?

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Oh, yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Dude, everything. You were all in. We were all in because the first location, Little Pizza Joint, did well. And so, you know, we... Let's scale this thing. Oh, let's scale this thing. We listened to all the freaking entrepreneurs out there going like, don't give away equity, like go all in on yourself. Because what could go wrong in the restaurant business? Every day. Yeah.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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So looking back, I can laugh. But of course, what ended up happening is 2007, 2008, there was a huge recession and the housing market collapsed, which meant the house, even though we owned a house, because we had secured the business with the house and home equity lines and credit cards, the house was not worth anything because of the amount of debt leveraged against it.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Oh, no, because we would have owed money. Yeah, yeah. And so we were just that, that feeling of being paralyzed and I lost my job. And I remember feeling so ashamed and, you know, I had made the vision boards. I had had a vision for my life and nowhere on any of the collages that I created about my dream life was an image of alcoholism, bankruptcy, a million dollars in debt, like none of that.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And so when you said paralyzed, I remember because there's an excruciating level of stress that you never forget when you cannot pay your bills.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And I had this whole line, Louis, because I knew that I would go into the grocery store knowing that the checking account was in the red.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Gosh.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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And I would have this whole line rehearsed where I'd be standing at the checkout counter and they'd be scanning the items. Beep. And I'm thinking, dear God, let there be an electronic glitch. And I have a kid or two or three of them with me.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This

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Yes, let them, let them, please. And they would, I'd pass over the card, debit or credit. I'd go credit because I knew if I hit debit, it would definitely pass. There's no cash. And when it ultimately, there were times where there was a miracle and it went through, but when it ultimately didn't go through, I had this whole line rehearsed. I would just cock my head and go, well, that's strange.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Get Back on Track: 5 Evening Habits to Wake Up Focused, Recharged, and in Control

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So lately I've been struggling with this issue, and maybe you can relate to this. Here's what's going on. See, by the time I get to the evening, I am dying to get a good night's sleep. And yet I'm not getting in bed. You know what I'm doing?

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It's this form of procrastination that hits because you're exhausted by your day. You've just given everything that you had to give to everybody else and everything else. And now at a moment in time where you deserve rest, where you deserve to put yourself first, where you deserve to turn back toward yourself and make yourself a priority.

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Now, at this moment where you and I just can't even think about another thing, this is where we procrastinate. Why are we doing this? I'll tell you why. This is crazy. You're just trying to regain some personal time. I mean, it kind of makes sense, right? Like that's why you collapse on the couch. That's why I do it.

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And you want to know the totally screwed up thing is that my husband doesn't do this. It's kind of annoying. Like the man is so disciplined. He has his habits dialed in. His number one habit is sleep. And that man, when it is ready for him to go to bed, boom, he pops off that couch. He will leave me stranded on a deserted island called the couch in front of the TV.

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While I am flipping through the phone and flipping through the channels and then honest to God, this is what happened to me last night. The man was in bed at nine o'clock at night, 1135. I look up and I'm like, why am I still sitting here? Why am I still sitting here? And then of course I make myself wrong because of course you do the same. I should have gone to bed hours ago.

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I'm even gonna walk you through what the medical experts are saying, that there are four symptoms that are a telltale indication that you're struggling with decision fatigue and it's probably ruining your evenings. You're staying up way later than you want to as a result. It's not your fault. And today we're gonna address it because this five-step evening routine never fails me.

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I should have gone to bed hours ago. And now I have allowed decision fatigue to turn into procrastination at bedtime where I'm making a decision. I'll just scroll a little longer. I'll just flip through the channels a little longer. I'll just avoid going to bed when I know it's the best thing for me because I'm now struggling with indecision because I gave it all to everybody else. No more.

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No more. I've done this to myself for several weeks. Now it's time for me to get serious about putting myself first again. And that brings me to the five steps of this super simple evening routine. This is an evening routine when the world is making you feel weary.

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This is the evening routine that helps you set yourself up without requiring any kind of motivation, any kind of effort, any kind of willpower. This is so simple and yet it is going to pour back into you and that's why you're going to love it. And every one of these five steps is you're going to be like, oh yeah, I know this. I just needed to be reminded of this.

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And the best advice in my mind is the advice that reminds you of what you know to be true. Because when you have this sense that, yeah, this is actually true. And yeah, I am struggling with decision fatigue. And yeah, I do do a lot. And since I do a lot, instead of rewarding myself with three hours of mindless social media, why don't I just get a couple extra hours of sleep?

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Wouldn't that be awesome? And before we jump into this, I want to just share one more piece of research to really just say, it's okay. It's okay if you're resonating with everything and you're nodding along, you're like, that's me, that's me. And there's a reason why this happens. It's not you. This has to do with the fact that your brain's just tired.

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In fact, in this article, Dr. McLean says, research shows that the best time to make decisions is in the morning. The morning is when we make the most accurate and thoughtful decisions, and we tend to be more cautious and meticulous. How many times have you woken up in the morning and thought, all right, tonight I'm actually going to go to bed early.

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Tonight I am not going to waste three hours looking at social media. Tonight I am not going to flip through the channels. Tonight I'm actually going to do my thing and I'm going to get to bed early. Well, the reason why you can think clearly in the morning is because research shows that you have the ability to be more accurate and thoughtful and cautious and meticulous.

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And the opposite is true at the end of the day, that according to the research, you and I hit a plateau in the afternoon and by the evening, your decisions are more impulsive. And that explains why you can know that you need to go to bed, but you make an impulsive decision because you're tired to not go to bed. So again, I'm going to tell you, it's not your fault. This is happening to all of us.

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And simply because you and I know that we shouldn't be doing it, it just isn't enough to overcome all the things that are working against you and what an incredible job you're doing all day long. And so here's what you're going to do. First of all, you're going to give yourself a break. You're going to recognize that this is a thing. You're going to acknowledge that this actually isn't your fault.

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And I'm going to walk you through the five steps of this super simple evening routine. And the best part, none of this actually requires any true decision-making, like for real. This is the kind of five-step routine you can do on autopilot. You can do with zero gas in the tank. That's how easy this is, and it works. And so let's start with step number one.

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whenever I feel exhausted, overwhelmed, or weary, and boy, have I felt that recently, you need to go back to the basics because it's time to end the bedtime procrastination and take your evenings and your sanity back. Hey, it's Mel. And before we jump into this awesome episode, I want to invite you to stick all the way until the end.

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And step number one of this simple evening routine for when the world is making you feel weary is pick your bedtime. This is the foundation for everything. And it is so obvious that when you're exhausted, you actually miss this step. And if you don't do step one, the whole evening's out the window completely. See, your entire evening routine depends on this. You have to pick your bedtime.

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If you don't pick your bedtime, you don't have an evening routine. And that's part of the problem is most people don't pick a real bedtime. Like you think, okay, I need to go to bed at 10. But in reality, you're scrolling until midnight. And so you have to be intentional about this. And here's the real trick. Are you ready? It's not sort of when you think you want to go to bed.

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You have to actually think to yourself, if I want to get a good night's sleep, and that's roughly eight hours. Here's the rule of thumb, and this comes from a conversation with one of the most renowned sleep experts in the world. Her name is Dr. Rebecca Robbins. She is a medical doctor and a sleep researcher at Brigham and Women's Hospital here in Boston, Massachusetts.

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And she basically explains that, you know, the mistake that a lot of us make is we think that, oh, if I got to get eight hours of sleep, I'm going to go right to bed at 10 o'clock. That means eight hours of sleep at 6 a.m., bada bing, bada boom. She's like, no, no, no, no. Even the best sleepers actually take about 20 minutes to truly fall asleep. And so here's a simple rule of thumb.

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I'm going to give a huge shout out to my friend, Amy. This is the rule of nine hours. You ready? This is going to blow your mind. If you want to get eight hours of sleep, you need to spend nine hours in bed. You ready? You want to get eight hours of sleep? You got to spend nine hours in bed. And so here's how I want you to find your real bedtime.

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And you can make this decision first thing in the morning. Like first thing in the morning when you don't have decision fatigue, you can say to yourself, tonight I'm going to get a good night's sleep, which means I got to spend nine hours in bed if I want to get eight hours. And so what time do I need to wake up? And then let's work backwards. So let me explain how this works.

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Let's say that you want to get up at six o'clock in the morning. In order to follow this rule, you want eight hours of sleep, you got to spend nine hours in bed. We got to move from 6 a.m. all the way back in time, nine hours. That means your bedtime is 9 p.m. So if you want to get eight hours of sleep and be up by 6 a.m., you got to be in bed by 9 p.m. I love this rule of thumb.

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And now let's give you some more examples. If you want to wake up at 7 a.m. and you'd actually like to give yourself eight hours of sleep, if we go from 7 a.m. back in time nine hours, you got to be in bed by 10. You got to be in bed by 10 p.m. If you're going to get up at 8 o'clock in the morning, In order to get eight hours of sleep, do not be in bed at midnight. That was the old Mel Robbins.

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Pull right in, right on the deadline there. I got to get right in bed for the eight hours. No, no, no, no, no. You're not giving yourself actual time to fall asleep. So by the time you get into bed, you're already late. You're already behind. And so your bedtime is not when you fall asleep. It's when you physically get in bed.

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Just think to yourself, when do I actually need to get up in the morning to set myself up to have a good day? So give yourself time. For me, that's 6 a.m. 6 a.m. is really the golden hour for me. If I get out of bed at 6 a.m. and I've had eight hours of sleep, I am a different human being. And the problem is that if I do this math, I gotta be in bed for nine hours to get eight hours of sleep.

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And if I wanna get up at 6 a.m., that means I gotta be in bed by 9 p.m. That's not what my bedtime's been. So no wonder I'm screwing myself over.

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And so I want you to think about this right now because you know what time you should be getting out of bed because it just gives you enough time to set yourself up and get your morning started in a way that empowers you, which you deserve, by the way, because you're doing so much all day long. So let's start there. Do you want to get up at 5 a.m., 6 a.m., 7, 8? What time do you want to get up?

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I've got a special segment that's all about stepping out of the day-to-day routine of your life that can get boring. You're going to learn how shaking things up in even the littlest ways can boost your mood, bring excitement back to your relationships, and make life feel fun again. And you deserve that.

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And then let's move the clock backwards nine hours. And that's your bedtime. And one more also piece of research here that will help you with this is you can pick this as a general rule for yourself. Like my husband's bedtime is 9 p.m. That's when the man goes to sleep and he falls asleep very fast. He wakes up at 5.30 a.m. like clockwork every single day.

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He has no drama, no procrastination because he has picked his bedtime. And what's interesting is there's research from Harvard Medical School, this comes from their guide to a good night's sleep, that having a consistent bedtime helps you fall asleep faster and get deeper sleep.

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So step one, what you can do right now is I want you to pick your bedtime and I promise you it's earlier than you think it should be. because I never did the math properly until I sat down with Dr. Rebecca Robbins and had this, whoa, wait a minute. If I want eight hours of sleep, I got to be in bed nine hours. That gives me time to read a book. It gives me time to kind of lay there.

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It doesn't put pressure on me. I don't start getting nervous. I'm actually working with the science. And since you pick your bedtime ahead, You don't need to worry about decision fatigue. And here's another simple tip you can do. If you're just starting to learn this new routine, put it in your phone as an alarm. Because that way, if you're sitting on the couch mindlessly

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procrastinating and doom scrolling or flipping through the channels boom it comes up and it's like bedtime you need to be in bed for nine hours to get eight hours of sleep and you deserve that and if that pops up it's like a little nudge from you when you had clearer thinking to remind you okay put the phone down because it's time to turn back toward you and give your energy back to you

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Alrighty, that's the first step. We have four more to cover. You're going to absolutely love these. We're just getting started. It's going to change how you feel in the morning. It's going to change what you do at night. It's going to help you take control of your evenings when the world makes you feel very weary. Those four additional steps are coming up. So don't go anywhere. Stay with me.

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Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. I'm so excited to be with you today because today we are talking about an evening routine that helps you take control of your evenings and get a great night's sleep and put yourself first, especially in moments in time where the world is making you feel overwhelmed and tired and weary. And this is so simple.

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And the first step we've already talked about, which is picking your bedtime. And you've also learned this rule that changed my life, that if you want to get eight hours of sleep, you got to spend nine hours in bed.

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And I also want to thank our sponsor, Celebrity Cruises, because I've got some incredible ways to help you shake things up and you're going to love it. So stay tuned. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you're here. First of all, it's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together.

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And so your bedtime that really sets you up for success, once you pick it right now, you don't have to think about it again, is calculate when you want to wake up and then back up the truck, nine hours, that's your bedtime. Now you're going to move to step two. Clean up the mess so you start your day fresh. It's just like flushing the toilet.

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Like when you've used the toilet and you've made a mess, why would you leave it in there? Of course you don't want to. You want to clean up the mess so that you have a bowl that's fresh, right? And I want you to think about your day just like using a bathroom. When you're done, you flush. You don't leave it there. You don't want to have to stare at it again.

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And the same is true about cleaning up today's mess so you can start tomorrow fresh. Because why would you leave today's mess for you to clean up tomorrow morning? See, there's a huge difference when you wake up and you walk into the kitchen area and it's clean. There's a huge difference when you walk into the place where your sink is and there's nothing in it.

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It's the difference between waking up fresh and feeling behind because you got all this stuff all over the kitchen counter. You got all this stuff lying on the floor. You got all this stuff spread out all over the place. You got all this stuff piled up in the sink. How does that make you feel? It makes me feel like I'm behind.

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It makes me feel like I got stuff that I need to do that I should have done yesterday that's now sitting here staring at me right in the face first thing in the morning. And so when I just do step two, and again, this is kind of that thing where You got like 15 minutes before it's your bedtime and now it's time to just clean up today's mess so you can start tomorrow fresh.

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What does that look like? It takes five minutes. Like I'm not talking about doing a deep clean. I'm talking about just cleaning up the mess. Why? So when you wake up tomorrow, it's fresh, you're calm, you're in control. You got nothing you got to do, but just step into the day. And so here's what I do. It takes less than five minutes. And what I love about this is I do this on autopilot.

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Like, so I've worked a full day. I don't want to do anything. I've made dinner. I've fed the dogs. I've done a little laundry. I've collapsed on the couch. Maybe I've clicked through channels. Maybe I've scrolled a little bit. All of a sudden, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's getting close to my bedtime. Time to clean up today's mess.

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So I first walk through the kitchen and I get everything out of the sink. I literally load the dishwasher. I wash out the pots. I clear off the counters. If the trash is full, I take out the trash and walk it into the garage.

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If there's things that are not where they belong, like somebody has hung their jacket on the chairs around the island, I pick up the jacket, I walk it and put it on the hook. I plug in my laptop. If I've got things that I need to remember for work, I stack them in a little pile and I put them on the countertop. That's all that I'm talking about. That's it.

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For you, it might mean that pile of clothes that are in the corner of the bedroom, put them in a laundry basket instead of letting them lay there. You know, the other night I got home from a trip and I'd opened up my suitcase, but I hadn't unpacked it. Do you know what clean up today's mess meant? It didn't mean unpack everything and start laundry.

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I literally folded my suitcase back up and stuck it in my closet. Clean up the mess. Because when I wake up in the morning, the first thing that I see is not the open suitcase and something that I needed to do that I should have done yesterday.

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And there's something really incredible that happens when you just have no energy and you're starting to wind down and you just kind of make a pass like a Zamboni through the kitchen and just kind of clear off the counters, you hang up the coats and you get everything out of the sink. And why does this work?

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And I wanted to take a moment and acknowledge that if you're a new listener, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I am so glad that you are here. And because you made the time to hit play and listen to this particular episode, I'm I know that you're the type of person who values your time. You want to make the most of your evenings. You know you need to get a good night's sleep.

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Multiple studies show that living in a messy environment, it actually raises your stress level because you see things that aren't done. And when you wake up to yesterday's mess, it drains all of your energy for today before you even get into your day. And so the first decisions that you're making in the morning are, should I do the dishes that I left for last night? Should I hang up the cut?

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You could have mindlessly done those as part of your wind down routine. And see, doing it at night, it actually takes less effort. Why? Well, you already have no gas left in the tank. So you're not gonna be a perfectionist about this. You're not gonna turn like changing things around into some big project where you're now organizing kitchen drawers.

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You're just gonna take the scissors and stick them in the drawer. Instead of taking the scissors first thing in the morning and be like, oh my gosh, this door is a mess. Now I should be organizing this thing. And next thing you know, you're like running even later because you took on something more in the morning when you had more energy. Don't do it. Don't do it.

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In fact, we were talking as a team about this and one of our team members was like, oh my gosh, I have so gotten into a habit of leaving the dishes at night for me to do in the morning. And every time at night, I'm like, I'll do it in the morning. Why? Decision fatigue.

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We know you procrastinate, you're impulsive, and you avoid things when you have decision fatigue, which we all do at the end of the day. But what happens when you wake up and you've gotten up and you're ready to start your day and you walk in the kitchen and there is a disgusting pan that is full of soapy, leftover chili that you have filled last night with hot water and soap

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thinking, oh, I'll just let it soak all overnight and it'll be easier. There is nothing easy about plunging your hands first thing in the morning into a greasy, cold, chunky pot that has been soaking all night and now it's waiting for you like a dish hangover for you to deal with and this is how you're starting your day? Don't do it. And look, again, I'm not trying to blame you.

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This isn't about like becoming an ultra marathoner and like killing your goals. This is literally the world's already beaten you down. You got enough to deal with. And so while you're already exhausted, while you're starting to wind down, while you're starting to turn off the lights and close the doors and all this stuff, literally like just clear off the counters. Just clean up today's mess.

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Do you see how this works? that you can just, boom, do yourself a little favor while you're tired, you're kind of zombying your way to bed, all good. And when you clean up today's mess so you can start tomorrow fresh, five minutes. And it's a gift you can give to yourself. All right, let's talk about number three, okay? Number three, I love this, is make tomorrow easier. Like set yourself up

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by making tomorrow easier. Because what's the hardest part about having a good morning routine? Again, it's all the decisions that you have to make. Am I gonna exercise? How do I feel? Am I getting out of bed? Am I not? Am I drinking water? Am I drinking coffee? Am I getting sunlight in my eyes? What am I doing?

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I am finding myself spending more time than ever just scrolling through my phone, flipping through the channels. And the next thing you know, I've stayed up three hours later than I wanted to. Turns out it has a name. Maybe you've even heard of it. It's called revenge bedtime procrastination.

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And so one of my favorite things to do after I've cleaned up today's mess is how can I make tomorrow morning easier? How can I set myself up tonight? Just in simple ways. I'm not talking about anything complicated here. Again, you and I are doing these steps with zero gas in the tank. We are doing these steps on autopilot.

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You deserve to, and you're looking for simple ways to make that a reality. And boy, oh boy, have you picked a winner. And I also want you to know something, that you are spending your days right now giving so much of yourself to everyone else.

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We are doing these steps because we know these simple things are a way to take care of ourselves when the world is wearing us down. And so there are simple things that I do when I'm literally half asleep walking to bed. Number one, I always pull out my workout clothes and I just lay them right on the floor. Why?

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Well, because it's easy when you're exhausted and you're already in your bedroom to just pull open the door and be like, okay, tights and a tank top and a jog bra. And okay, I'm going to go for a walk. So let me throw the sweatshirt on. Boom, I'm done. No thinking about it. No considering how I feel about it. Nothing.

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Another thing that I do, super simple, as I'm clearing off the counters, a way that I make my mornings easier is I fill up a water bottle or I fill up one of my handy little mason jars and I fill it up with water and I always pour in this electrolyte mix by this company, Element. I know you're gonna ask. They're one of our sponsors. They did not pay me to say that.

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I actually use the watermelon flavor. pour it into my water. It's got like magnesium and salt and potassium. And you know what I do with it? I stick it in front of the coffee maker. Why? Oh, well, I've just made my morning so much easier because when I get up and I go through my morning routine and I eventually walk out into the kitchen, first of all, kitchen's clean. So I got no mess to clear up.

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Thank you, Mel Robbins. My morning just got better. And then I walk over to the coffee maker because I want a cup of coffee, but then boom, I've set up my water. Now it's easy to drink water before coffee. It took me no time. Like I'm literally doing it sleepwalking at night. Thank you, Mel Robbins last night. What else do I do at times? I'll pack up my lunch.

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I will prep a little bit of breakfast or at least look in there and be like, okay, there's no eggs. Oh, I could do yogurt. Okay, got it. Another thing you could do, put your keys in the same place. Pack up your backpack and put it on the counter. Set out the forms that the kids need. Why are you doing this?

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Well, because anything that you do tonight that could make tomorrow morning easier is a gift that you're giving to yourself. And so these simple things that if you are half asleep and you're organizing your work stuff and just collecting it on the island, boom, there you go. How much easier did you just make the morning?

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Now in the morning, you don't have to search for stuff and you just kind of did it half asleep. And this works because of what we've been talking about, this idea of all of the decisions that you have to make all day long.

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to your work, to your family, to the responsibilities that you have, to the constant stream of emails that are coming in, the texts, the demands of life that are pulling you in every single direction, that by the time the day is done, I know how you feel because I feel the same way. You are wiped out. The tank of gas in your brain, it is on empty.

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And so if you're literally zero gas in the tank and you're already gonna turn off the lights and you're already gonna put the dogs in the mudroom or in their crates, or you're already gonna turn down the heat, or you're already going to be kind of going through that, okay, turn off this light and do that, like the wind down so that you are now ending the day,

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As part of that, just do a few things that set you up for success. I mean, that's the coolest thing. One of the things my husband does that I've noticed recently is he drinks a smoothie in the morning before he works out. He now makes like a triple batch and then he'll pour a bunch of it into mason jars and then he puts it in the freezer.

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And then in the morning, he just pulls one out of the freezer and sticks it in the microwave for a minute. And now he's got like this soupy, yummy pre-made protein thing. I mean, talk about making your life easier. And here's the other thing. All of these small little things that you're doing, and I love the one about laying out your clothes on the floor, right?

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It removes a decision you have to make in the morning. It removes any friction, right? that your feelings create. I don't feel like doing it. I'm too tired. Well, there are the clothes, just put them on. And that makes these new habits easier to stick to because you really don't have to think about it because you've just made it obvious and easier because it's staring at you right there.

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Another big trick for me that's really helped with making sure that I exercise every day is I pick what I'm going to do the day before for exercise. So for example, if I'm going to walk, I know I'm going to walk. If I'm going to stream an exercise class, which is what I did this morning, I've actually picked the exercise class and I text it to me. Why?

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Or I put it in my calendar because then in the morning, I don't have to make a decision. The clothes are on the floor, just staring at me. Like, what are you going to do? Step over me and ignore the fact that you're supposed to exercise? No, I'm going to put it on even though I don't feel like it. And then instead of walking into the kitchen and going, okay, well, what am I going to do?

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I've already made the decision. I've texted myself the link to the class and that makes it easier to get done. Do you see how genius this is? And here's the thing I love about this so much is that because I'm tired at night, I don't overthink these things. I just kind of mindlessly check the box.

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Like, do you ever, as you're standing at your door, question whether or not you should lock it or turn on the alarm? Of course not. Like, it doesn't matter how tired you are. You always turn off the lights and you always lock the door. Like, it's part of your routine.

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And picking a bedtime and cleaning up today's mess so tomorrow you can start fresh and just making little things easier in the morning, this is so mindless. It's awesome. And I also want to thank you in advance for sharing this episode.

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with anyone in your life that you care about that is struggling with this revenge bedtime procrastination and needs to be reminded of how important it is to create a simple evening routine that takes your sanity and your power back. Alrighty, stay with me. The final two steps to this routine are coming up next. Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins.

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And today you and I are walking through the five simple steps of my evening routine. This is something that I do whenever I catch myself succumbing to decision fatigue and wasting time on my phone or flipping through channels. We've already covered the first three steps of this, which are pick your bedtime. It's clean up today's mess so you start tomorrow fresh.

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And number three, number three, I absolutely love. Number three is make tomorrow easier. That's right. You heard me. As you're exhausted, as you're on autopilot, as you're starting to wind down toward bed and you're turning the locks and you're turning off the lights and you're shutting down the house, you're going to also find small ways to make tomorrow morning easier. It really does feel good.

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And today you and I are going to do something about it. So I want to applaud the fact that you're making time to listen to something that's going to help your life be a little bit better. And I want to also point out something kind of cool. If somebody forwarded this to you and told you you should listen to this episode, you want to know what's cool about that?

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And that brings me to step four. And this, this part's like amazing. You're just going to take five minutes for yourself. That's it. Five minutes for you. Like you already gave your day to everybody else. You already gave time to social media. You already took care of everybody in your family.

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You already responded to the texts and you wrote the emails and you sat in the meetings and you did your work. You already took care of the dogs and the cat. You already took care of people at work. If you have a job where you're taking care of people, you've already poured energy into everybody else's stuff. You've already wasted time, like just mindlessly watching things.

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How about before you climb into bed, instead of constantly giving more, more of your attention, more of your energy to your phone or to the TV or to somebody's drama, what if you turned back to yourself? What if you gave yourself something that you haven't had all day, which is just time? I mean, really stop and think about this. Because I'm sure your life feels a lot like mine.

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Like when you wake up in the morning, that's a moment of peace and power. And you're in control of what you're thinking about and your attention in the morning for whatever period of time that you have until you look at the phone or you look at the TV.

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Like you control those first five to 20 minutes first thing in the morning, but the second you give it to your phone or to a TV, you literally just turned everything that you got, your brain, your attention, your heart, your energy to the world. And you're not going to get it back until this moment, right here, right now, every evening. And I say you deserve at least 15 minutes of time back.

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This is time you could read a book. This is time you could roll out a yoga mat and do a quick stretch. This is time where you could meditate. You could journal. You could just, after you've turned off the lights and you've kind of cleaned up the mess so you can start tomorrow fresh and you've made a few things a little bit easier, you could just sit in gratitude that you did that for yourself.

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You could ask yourself what went well today. That's a prompt that we learned from the amazing expert on brain and brain health, Dr. Daniel Amen. One of the things that I love to do in these five minutes is I run a bath.

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It means that you have somebody in your life that's looking out for you, that cares about you, that wants you to feel better. And I just think that's so cool. And so thank you again for being here. Thank you for taking time to listen to this.

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Like when I start that wind down, I turn the bath on and then I go and I clean up the mess in the kitchen and I start to wind down the house and lock the doors and turn on the alarm and put the dogs in the mud room and all that stuff. while the bath is running. And all the while I'm making things easier. This takes me five, 10 minutes tops. And by the time I get in my bedroom, the bath is drawn.

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These are my five minutes. Some nights I'll make a cup of tea and I'll put a scoop of magnesium in it, cup of mint tea, magnesium. I love this time. And here's one thing that I've noticed. If I have succumbed to decision fatigue and I have engaged in revenge bedtime procrastination and I have avoided going to bed because I feel like I deserve time, do you know what I don't do?

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I don't take time for myself. Like it's a lie to believe that scrolling mindlessly is actually time for you. It's a lie that you tell yourself that slumping on the couch and having a phone in your hand while you're flipping and watching trailers is somehow time for you. No, that's more time that you're giving your attention to other things. These five minutes are about turning back time

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to yourself. And here's what I've noticed is that when you start to just reflexively make time for yourself, whether you're going to run a bath or make a cup of tea, or you're going to journal at night, or you're going to have a book that you read, you know what you're less likely to do? You're less likely to be turning your attention to your phone or binge watching TV.

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And I'm really excited to share everything with you because I know it's going to resonate because I'm struggling with this issue too, which is it's time for you and me to reclaim our evenings. And I'm going to teach you this simple five-step evening routine that never fails me. Whenever I feel exhausted, overwhelmed, or weary, these five steps, these are the basics.

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The other thing that happens when you turn to yourself, this is what Dr. Rebecca Robbins calls a wind down routine, is now you're slowing yourself down and you're activating what's called your parasympathetic nervous system.

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You're basically signaling to your body, okay, just like we're turning off the lights and we're locking the door and we're clearing off the counters and we're emptying out the sink and we're doing some simple things to make my day go better tomorrow, to take care of myself,

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All of those actions signal, hey body, hey mind, hey nervous system, you don't have to be in a state of fight or flight right now. You don't have to be on edge. You don't have to be bracing or escaping. It's safe. We're going to rest now. Like this whole little routine, which you can do on autopilot, exhausted, with zero gas in the tank, is also a way to signal to your body that, wow,

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I do deserve rest. I do deserve this quiet. Not everything in my life has to be so stimulating. In fact, I don't want it to be. And you want to know something cool that happens over time? That five minutes that you spend soaking in a bath becomes 10. And then it becomes 20 minutes because you've made a cup of tea ahead of time. And then suddenly you've also bought a good book.

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And now instead of looking at your phone, you've read a little, you've made your tea. You're now part of your wind down routine as you're cleaning up today's messes to set yourself up for tomorrow. And you're making things easier. And you're now turning back to yourself like your whole evening. And are you getting this? Is actually you turning back to yourself.

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It is you saying to yourself with every small little move that you make in this tiny little five-step routine, I matter. My rest matters. Sleep matters. Feeling good matters. And I've already given enough of myself to the world. No more. No more. I'm going to give myself that time because I deserve it. And you're going to feel different.

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Like literally just doing this routine once and I'm done with the procrastination at night. You're going to feel so empowered. And so that brings me to step number five. And this is the final step. I want you to tuck your phone in before you tuck yourself in. Okay? I could spend an entire episode.

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In fact, we could do dozens and dozens and dozens of conversations about the phone and how it's impacting your sleep. But I'm not going to go all science on you. I'm going to appeal to your wisdom, to what you know to be true. And I am going to appeal to your better nature and your ability to truly take care of yourself. And so here's the thing.

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You wouldn't let your toddler sleep with an iPad in their bed. At least I hope you wouldn't. Why wouldn't you do that? Well, I think we all know that a toddler wouldn't be able to help themselves, right? They'd be checking it. Well, we're all a toddler when it comes to the phone. And so you can't let yourself sleep with your phone. Like this is a massive game changer.

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And the reason why I'm gonna say it needs to be a step in your routine is because just remember, you are also at the end of the day struggling with decision fatigue. That means you are already more impulsive, You're already wired to avoid doing what you need to do. You already are struggling with indecision.

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This is why every one of us climbs in the bed and we're like, ah, I shouldn't look at my phone. And then boom, you are indecisive about it. So you look at your phone. You know you should put it away, but you avoid putting it away. You have decision fatigue. This is not your fault, which is why you need to tuck your phone in before you tuck yourself in. And for me, what does this mean?

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This is the foundation for creating an evening routine that really takes care of you. It sets you up to have a great day in the morning. And most importantly, what I love about this particular five-step evening routine is, first of all, it's so simple. Second, this has nothing to do with productivity. You know, I don't know about you, but I don't feel right now like, ooh, let's attack the goals.

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It means I tuck my phone into the bathroom. I cannot have it next to me. I can't. I'm too impulsive. I am prone to procrastinating. I will avoid doing what's right for me. If I were an alcoholic, I would not have a Manhattan next to me at bed. If I had a cocaine problem, I would not have an eight ball sitting right there. And I know myself and I know you.

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And at this moment, you are peak decision fatigue. And if you actually care about yourself, You will tuck your phone in before you tuck yourself in. And for me, that meant learning how to plug that thing into the bathroom, even though it felt like I was going through massive withdrawal and something terrible was going to happen. And what if this and what if that?

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This is the single biggest game changer when it comes to your evenings.

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And your ability to sleep and your ability to wake up tomorrow and have the day actually work for you and to have a fighting chance that you're going to make decisions that empower you first thing in the morning instead of yet again, turning your most precious asset, which is your attention and your energy to the phone and to the world around you. Like they get it all day long.

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That's why we have to have boundaries between the world and actually ourselves and what's good for us. And so I plug mine into the bathroom because A, I can't reach for it in bed. B, I set my alarm on the phone. And that means when the alarm rings, I'm not laying in bed and rotting in bed and avoiding getting out of bed. I'm getting up to go turn the alarm off on the phone.

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And number three, there's so much research around this. Aside just from what we're talking about with decision fatigue and you being more prone to impulsivity and more prone to avoid going to bed and getting the sleep that you need because you feel like you deserve time to hang out. The time to hang out is not at night when you need sleep. And there's other reasons why this matters.

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I mean, and you've heard all of this. The blue light from your phone, it suppresses melatonin. The notifications, the doom scrolling, the lights that come up, it keeps your brain active because your brain is waiting for another notification. It's looking for it, which what? Makes it harder to fall asleep. And even just having your phone near you affects the quality of your sleep.

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I mean, the science around this is bananas. The light at night is part of the reason why so many of you don't get enough sleep. Researchers have actually linked shortened sleep cycles to increased risk for depression, as well as diabetes, cardiovascular problems. This is research that was published in Harvard Health Publishing. I mean, here's the bottom line.

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I want you to find a new bed to tuck your phone into, and it can't be your bedside table. Charge it in the kitchen, charge it in the bathroom, charge it across the room from you, or charge it where my husband charges his phone, in the closet at night with the door closed. Because that will give you the chance to get the sleep you deserve.

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And again, I want you to embrace the truth of where we started, okay? The fact is you and I live in a moment in time where the world is engineered and designed on purpose to seal your time, your energy, and your attention. All day long, you are giving yourself to work, to people you care about, to your kids, to your friends, to your classmates, to your teachers.

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You are pouring your brain into solving projects, to answering texts, to responding to emails. Like it's unbelievable how much you do in a day. Unbelievable. And I want you to give yourself credit for that. And I also want you to understand that when you come home and you're tired and you're exhausted and you just want to collapse and quote, not think, this is normal.

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That's exactly how you should feel in a world where you're working very hard and you're giving it your all and you're trying to show up. And you're doing a great job, by the way. You are doing a great job giving it all to the world. And I want to remind you that you deserve that attention and that effort back to yourself. And even though I get it, like it is so easy to doom scroll.

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Like I feel like life is so overwhelming and the headlines are so depressing and everybody's got so much going on and there's so much information coming at us that by the time I get home and my God, I have unpacked my backpack and I have put away the groceries and I've cooked dinner. I'm exhausted. Like, I feel like I've given everything that I had to give to everyone else.

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It is so tempting to collapse on the couch and just be impulsive and avoidant and make decisions that really kind of screw yourself over. I'm here to tell you, you deserve more and nobody's going to change this for you. In fact, it's just going to get worse, honestly.

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The more the headlines are scary, the more you have problems in your life, the more overwhelmed you are at work, the worse it gets at night in terms of staying up too late and avoiding going to bed and continuing to look at your phone or TV. The worse it's going to get. And you now know why. Oh, wait a minute. I'm not an idiot. I am struggling with decision fatigue. Oh, wait a minute.

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I've already poured everything into everybody else. So I do have to claw back this time, both at night and first thing in the morning. This makes a lot of sense. Oh, wait a minute. The second that I look at my phone or I turn on the TV, I've now put the phone and the TV and everything on it in front of my sanity and my rest and my peace. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

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And so now that you know what's at play and you know that there is a situation that is beyond your, it's not your fault. This is just the way life is right now. But more importantly, when you accept that reality, you now get to choose.

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You get to choose whether or not you're going to succumb to the pressures and the programming of the modern world, or if you're going to take your evenings and your sanity back. And the way that I've done it, and the way that I keep coming back to it, and the way that you're going to do it tonight, it's very simple. Right now, pick your bedtime. You're going to work backward from the wake-up time.

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Is it 6 a.m.? Is it 7 a.m.? Is it 8 a.m.? When do you want to get up? Then let's work backward and you need nine hours in bed in order to get eight hours of sleep. I love this. And it is going to be earlier than you think it is. For me, it is 9 p.m. Eastern because I have a great morning if I get up at 6 a.m.

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And that means I got to basically be hitting the bed around nine to ensure that I get eight hours of sleep. Second thing that you're going to do, and I love this because again, you do this when you're tired. You do this, this is part of the lock the door, turn off the lights and start to wind down the day. You're just going to clean up today's messes so you can start tomorrow fresh.

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This is not a deep clean. This is literally bare minimum, people. We're throwing the scissors in the drawer and We are putting the backpacks by the door. We're hanging up the coats. We are getting rid of the dishes in the sink and either washing them or sticking them in the dish. We're clearing off the counter. That's all you're doing. So you get to wake up fresh tomorrow. How cool is that?

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As you're doing that, find small ways to set yourself up for success tomorrow by making whatever you need to do in the morning easier. Consolidate your stuff for work. Put your keys right on top. Pack your lunch. You can do that mindlessly. Throw your exercise clothes on the floor. Find the dog leash and the dog baths. You're literally half asleep while you're doing this.

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That's why this is so cool because that means you don't actually have to exert any energy tomorrow. You've just made things easier. If you love a cup of coffee, first thing, grind the coffee, have the coffee maker ready to go. If you got a timer on it, set the timer. Boom, you just made the morning easy.

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You removed one more decision and you reserved your brain power in the morning for something more important. Now, the fourth step, five minutes for you. Acknowledge the fact that you gave it all as best you could to everybody else today. And now, as you are winding down the day, make part of your wind-down routine five minutes for you. That's it. A bath, cup of tea, journal.

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Simply, as you're getting undressed, ask yourself, what went well today? Just something that's for you. Stretch. Could be reading a book to your kids before they go to bed. You know, you're kind of just being present with them, snuggling. Five minutes for you. For me, it's a bath. Always a bath, always a bath, always a bath.

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And now I've made it to the end of the day. It's seven or eight o'clock. I can't believe I'm still standing. And now I don't want to do anything. But here's the problem. The things that you do in the evening actually set you up to have a great day tomorrow or to wake up feeling even more exhausted, more overwhelmed, and more weary. And here's why I wanted to talk about this right now.

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And then finally, the fifth step in this incredibly simple evening routine for when the world just makes you feel weary and overwhelmed and tired. Tuck your phone in before you tuck yourself in. This is gonna be the hardest one. And I get it. And here's one final thing. If you're somebody that's worried about your kids or work being able to reach you, no problem. Just text everybody.

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In fact, you could share this episode with them and say, hey, I just listened to this thing and I am going to try getting a better night's sleep. I'm going to try this evening routine. And because of what I've just learned, I want you to know something. If you have an emergency, you can still reach me in the middle of the night. Just call me.

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Don't text me because I'm going to be tucking my phone into the bathroom so I won't be reading the text till the morning. But if you actually need me, call me and I'll leave the ringer on. Boom. Notifications off, ringer on. Then you can tuck your phone in knowing that if somebody needs you, they'll call you. And you, my friend, can tuck yourself in and actually get the sleep you deserve.

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How cool is that? How cool is that? I'm really excited for you. I'm really excited to see how you use this. I'm excited to see how this shifts something in you. My main desire in talking through this with you is not to make anybody wrong. Certainly not to make myself wrong. I know I'm working really hard right now and I just noticed, wow, I'm sort of in this slump at night.

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And it's time to remind myself of what I know to be true. And I thought since I'm really been struggling with this and I needed this reminder, I just figured you probably needed this reminder too and so do the people that you love. So I wanna thank you for being here with me. I wanna thank you for choosing to listen to something that will really help you take your evenings and your sanity back.

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One five little step routine, one night at a time. This works. You can do it and you deserve, you deserve to have your evenings. You deserve to wake up and feel refreshed and to feel like you don't have to do a million things because you've done these five simple things. And I promise you, you try it for a couple nights and you're gonna feel like a whole new you.

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In fact, I think you're gonna feel like yourself again. Alrighty, in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. And what does that mean? That means love for me is two things. It's just simply admiring something in someone and consideration, having them in mind.

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And so I say I love you because I admire the fact that even when you don't have time, you're finding time to listen to a podcast or to watch it on YouTube that could actually help you create a better life. And I admire that about you. And I always have you in mind when I'm thinking about what we're going to talk about, because I want to make sure that this is worth your time.

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And I know the conversation today is. And so I love you for that. And I believe in you and I believe in your ability to take these five steps and try them out for a couple nights. and see how it changes how you feel, it changes how you sleep, and it changes how you wake up, and that, my friend, is going to change your life. Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode.

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I'll be there to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. Now, this is an evening routine. Hold on a second. Let me get up. That sounds kind of early, doesn't it? Of course it does. Is it Chris? Like, who's here? Are you hearing it, Jessie? Is it today to tomorrow? Oh, okay, gotcha. Is this good? Am I too long-winded? Tell them to be careful, I'm going down.

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Unless your rent is $75. No, it's not. Where are you living? Let's really get down to press tax here. Because I bought it from the Christmas workshop in the back where all the ladies make of my hand. Okay. Like when... Do you? Great. Let me, Chris just got in. So I think I might need a second before the beeps and the honks and the walk-in and the grush of truly picking your bedtime. Oh God.

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First of all, I'm struggling with this. I've noticed this pattern in me where I'm scrolling on my phone at night and I know better and so do you. I'm sitting there flipping through the channels and next thing you know, two hours goes by and I haven't even watched a show and you've experienced this too. Why is this happening right now?

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Hold on a second. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher. This segment is sponsored by Celebrity Cruises.

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With nearly 300 destinations across seven continents, you can swap the everyday for exploring European cities, spotting wildlife in Alaska, or relaxing on white sand Caribbean beaches. Plus, with beautiful accommodations, incredible food, and top tier entertainment, the vacation, it starts the moment you step on board. Celebrity Cruises has it all.

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It's this phenomenon where you want to get a good night's sleep, but then you make a decision to get less sleep in order to regain personal time. But you're doing nothing with the time. And the experts are saying this is an epidemic. that you and I are choosing to scroll and we're choosing to stay up later than we want to, doing nothing. And here's the thing, I know better, you know better.

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No matter how long you're out at sea, you'll have something fun to look forward to. What a great way to break out of your routine. And listen, I love a good routine. I mean, obviously I love a good routine because you and I just spent 50 minutes talking all about the simple things you can do as an evening routine to help you wind down the night and get the rest that you deserve.

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But here's the catch. You got to be careful and intentional about your routines. Because if you're not paying attention, your whole life can start to blur into one blob. One day blends into the next, and then the week blends into the next. That's not a routine. That's not even a life. That means you've now slipped into a place that I've been before, which is autopilot.

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See, adding spice to your life and variety and excitement, this isn't a luxury. It's a necessity, a necessity that you deserve. When's the last time you stepped out of or just shook up your boring day-to-day routine? When's the last time you took a different route home from work or you ordered something different off the menu? Shake it up. And you want to know how to add even more spice?

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Break that routine with someone you love. There's literally a neuroscientist who came on this show and said, if you feel like roommates with your partner, the reason why is you're in too much of a routine. Same meals, same thing every day, every week. No wonder you feel like roommates. Shaking things up has so many benefits. For one, it brings back the excitement.

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Why is it that we live in this moment of time where you know you need to get a good night's sleep? You know that you don't want to waste your entire evening scrolling on your phone. You know that you don't want to stay up past midnight or past 11 p.m. and then screw yourself over because you don't actually get in bed in time to get a good night's sleep.

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We could all use a little of that. Remember that spark you had in the beginning? The one where everything felt so exciting? That wasn't just chemistry, it was newness. See, trying new things together brings back the same sense of adventure. This comes from research by Amy Muse at York University. This was published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

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Shows the couples who do new things together have higher levels of satisfaction and passion in their relationships. That's available to you. You want to know what else happens when you break out of your routine with someone else? You strengthen your bond.

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Science also backs this up because when you experience new things together with somebody that you care about, you feel closer because you associate those new exciting emotions with one another. In fact, I just experienced this with my husband. I surprised him and signed up for this like owl experience thing where we got to meet owls and fly owls. It was super cool.

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And now I associate Chris with that experience and of course with owls. Now think about it. When you try something new, you're creating memories instead of just running through the motions. And you want to know another thing that happens? You laugh more. Is there anything better than an all-out laughing fit with someone you love? I don't think so.

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According to a study by Doris Bazzini of Appalachian State University, this was published in the Journal of Motivation and Emotion, when do you laugh the most?

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When you're caught off guard, being playful, stepping outside your comfort zone, doing something unexpected, whether it's trying a new recipe together, going to a show, taking an improv class, planning an unexpected trip, kind of shakes things up, makes life more fun. Don't you want more of that for yourself? Of course you do. And you know what? As your friend, I want that for you too.

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And I also want to remind you, you deserve it. And you know what it takes to break free of the boring, ordinary routine? It just takes the decision to do so. Now, before we wrap this up, I just want to give a huge shout out to Celebrity Cruises for sponsoring this segment.

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If you or your favorite person are craving something different, something elevated, exciting, and unforgettable, Celebrity Cruises is where it's at. You get the intimacy of a smaller ship, but with all the variety and entertainment of a big one. Incredible accommodations, world-class dining, and nonstop entertainment. It is all there to break up your routine.

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Learn more at CelebrityCruises.com, Ships Registry, Malta, and Ecuador.

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So if we know that what's good for us is winding down and taking care of ourselves and getting into bed at a reasonable hour, why are we doing it? Well, there's a really interesting explanation for why so many of us are getting less sleep and we're wasting our evenings doing nothing. And it has to do with something called decision fatigue. See, you and I are making decisions all day long.

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In fact, I have this really interesting article that I found as I was researching our conversation today. It was an article that was published by the American Medical Association. And in it, you can hear me flipping through the pages. The reporter is interviewing Dr. Lisa McLean, who is a psychiatrist and the chief wellness officer at Henry Ford Health System in Michigan.

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Now, this is an entire article about something called decision fatigue. And the reason why I want to unpack this is because I want to give you some credit. Do you know how much you're doing all day?

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I don't even think you understand how you're showing up for everybody else, how you're doing a great job at work, how you're answering the emails, how you're returning the texts, how you're making decisions all day long. And decision fatigue, according to Dr. McClain and all of this research that she's citing, is a very real thing.

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It's the idea, quote, that after making many decisions, your ability to make more and more decisions over the course of the day becomes worse. The more decisions you have to make, the more fatigue you develop and the more difficult it can become. And she goes on to write, because I don't think you've stopped to consider just how many decisions you make every single day.

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Well, the researchers have figured it out. Here's what Dr. McLean has to say. By the time the average person goes to bed, that's you and me, you've made over 35,000 decisions. I mean, just even trying to embrace that number is exhausting. 35,000 decisions? Mm-hmm. And if you're sitting there going, I don't. Like 35,000 decisions in a day? Well, just stop and think about it.

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Everything from what do you wear to when are you leaving for work to picking up your toothbrush to whether or not you make the left turn or the right turn or you hit the brakes or you read the book or you don't, you answer the text, like all day long. You are making decisions, which means all day long, if you think about a human being, I think about it this way.

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I think about you and I having a gas tank, right? And so you wake up in the morning, and this is so elementary, but this is how I try to process this for myself. When you wake up in the morning, you've got a full tank of gas.

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And all day long, every single decision that you're making, all the effort that you're exerting, all the caretaking, all the consideration, all the talking, all the thinking, every time you make a little decision or you put in a little effort, guess what? You're just slowly draining that tank of energy. And what's the result?

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Well, by the time you get home and you've taken care of everybody else, you're exhausted completely. The fuel tank is near empty. And if you're anything like me, what do you want to do? Nothing. You want to do nothing. You've been doing something for your boss. You've been doing something for your professors.

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If you're in school, you've been doing something for your parents, for your kids, for your significant other. You've been doing things for your friends by texting back. You've taken care of work. You've taken care of bills. You've taken care of feeding the dogs or feeding the cat. Like it is going on and on. And aren't you just exhausted thinking about this? Of course you are.

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I mean, aren't you so mad at yourself when all of a sudden you look up and it's 12.37 and you're like, why am I still awake? And then of course, you wanna know the result of this? You get less sleep, you can't focus, you're exhausted, you're dragging yourself through the next day. And that's why I wanted to talk to you about this today. because you and I need to reclaim our evenings.

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So am I. And this is why I wanted to explain this. Because if this is what you're doing all day long, you're literally reading the news and then you're reading emails and then you're talking in a meeting and then you're driving from here to there and then you're thinking about your friends and you're exerting all this effort. No wonder that by the end of the night, all you want to do is nothing.

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See, Dr. McLean says in this article that, quote, a person with decision fatigue, which you and I have, have you ever like at seven or eight o'clock at night just been like, I don't want to think anymore? I know I've said that. Like, you just literally put your phone, I don't even want to think about it. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to have to fold laundry. I can do it tomorrow.

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Well, according to Dr. McLean, check this out. This is decision fatigue. You're tapped out because of everything you've already done. We're not giving ourselves credit for that, of course. We're just feeling exhausted. She says a person with decision fatigue may feel tired, have brain fog, or experience other signs and symptoms of physical or mental fatigue.

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And the phenomenon is cumulative so that as the person makes more decisions throughout the day, guess what? You feel worse or you might be more drained as the day progresses.

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I feel like I've had nothing but a string of days recently where by the time I'm finishing my last meeting at work, I feel like I am army crawling through the end of one of those Spartan marathon races through the mud up a mountain where they're like electrocuting you at the very end as you're crawling underneath all these barriers. I know that you feel the same way and it gets even deeper.

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There are actually four main symptoms, medically speaking, that show that you have decision fatigue. You ready? Because you're about to go, me, me, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Number one symptom that you are tapped out, no more decisions, procrastination. Yep. If you're putting off folding the laundry tonight and saying, I'm just too tired. I'm gonna do it tomorrow. There you go. Impulsivity. Yep.

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Like, for example, the fact that I popped off the couch last night, walked into the kitchen, stood in front of the open freezer. pulled out an ice cream carton and started eating from it with a spoon. Yep, that was last night. Avoidance. Avoidance, yes.

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I avoid anything that requires a decision, which is why I scroll like a mindless zombie idiot on my phone because that doesn't require me to do anything except for zone out. Are you saying same, same? And you want to know the fourth symptom? that medically speaking means you're struggling with decision fatigue, indecision.

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How many times have you parked yourself on the couch and you've picked up the clicker And you literally spend an hour clicking through trailers, trying to find something online to watch. I mean, I will literally spend an hour watching trailers only to make no decision about what to watch.

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It's almost like looking at trailers online on Amazon Prime or on Netflix or Hulu or whatever it is that you like to watch online. That looking at trailers is the new way to doom scroll on social media, only you're doing it on TV. I know you're laughing because you do it.

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Now, I just realized, oh boy, this revenge bedtime procrastination thing has crept up on me, which means it's time to go back to my simple five-step evening routine for how I fight this. These five steps are just how I reclaim my evenings. And by the way, there's a lot of science as to why you're gonna wanna try this five-step routine too.

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Or do you do that thing where my husband has this notes app and he has been keeping track of movie recommendations from people for literally like four years. I guarantee you every other night he pulls it out as I'm flipping through trailers and he's like, well, let's take a look at the list. And we have read through the list 55,000 times and there is nothing on the list that I want to watch.

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And now I know why. Because one of the symptoms of decision fatigue after a very long day, which you experience and I experience, is indecision. I can't decide what I want to watch because I have no freaking brain power left to make a decision. And this brings me to the fact that you and I are losing control of our evenings because of this decision fatigue.

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And I want to take a giant highlighter and highlight it because if you don't know what you're up against, it will continue to win. And so understanding and giving yourself credit that your days are long. You got a lot on your plate. You are doing so much. You're doing a great job. You are pouring into everybody else.

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You are doing your best in what feels at times like an impossible workload and an overwhelming world. And then you come home and you want to know what? Holy cow. I don't blame you. You've made enough decisions. Where's the reward? Here's the problem. And this has been a problem for me for several weeks now, is that it's understandable to feel exhausted at the end of the day.

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And you deserve a pat on the back. And you should be saying to yourself, I did a great job today. I did my best. I showed up. And I want to say that in case you're not saying it to yourself. But when you reach this point where you have decision fatigue and medically speaking, you're like, I'm up against avoidance and indecision and impulsivity and procrastination. You know what that sounds like?

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That sounds like a recipe for disaster because here you've been focused all day long. You've been making the best decisions that you can. And now, now when you've got an evening all to yourself, now impulsivity, procrastination and indecision takes over and you screw yourself over. That's what I've been doing. See, this is what revenge bedtime procrastination is.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Why Making Friends as an Adult Feels Impossible & What to Do About It

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Ooh, I am so glad that you're listening to this because today you and I are going to talk about why making friends as an adult feels impossible. And I'm just going to start by saying, I want to put this on the record, for most of my adult life, I didn't understand the rules of adult friendship.

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It's proximity, it's timing, and it's energy. These are the three pillars, the conditions, if you will, that have to be present in order for you to create friendship. That's it. These conditions, proximity, timing, energy, they were present when you were a kid. When you turn 20, proximity, timing, energy, scatters.

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So let's unpack these one by one, because I really want you to understand why these are so important, why they're grounded in the research, and why this means that when friendships start to fade, it's not personal. It's about these pillars. All right, number one is proximity. This is... probably the single biggest factor in creating friendships.

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Proximity just means how physically close are you to somebody. And this matters. This matters way more than you think. And I'm going to explain some research because this research really empowered me and I found it to be extraordinarily eye-opening, okay?

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So a study at MIT found that the single most important factor for determining friendships is physical proximity, meaning how often do you bump into somebody? How often do you see them? How often do your paths cross? And the reason why this matters has to do with the fact that in order for you to connect with people and create great friendships, you got to spend time with them. right?

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I mean, obviously. And there's even research around this. And so I want to bring the research in so that you understand that the three pillars of friendship that I'm about to unpack for you, this is grounded in deeply respected science. And when I know that, it's easier for me to go, oh, I'm not the only idiot here. Now this makes a lot of sense.

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Now I can get my emotions out of the way and I can operate within the truth of the facts. So the research that I'm about to share with you comes from the University of Kansas. So they studied friendship and they studied friendship of all ages. And the study is fascinating because the study found that it takes 50 hours, 50 hours of time with another person to become kind of casual friends.

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Or if you're surrounded by people, but they just don't feel like your people anymore, I or you just wish you had more fun, you had a better social life, you could create those close friendships that you really yearn for and you deserve, this conversation is exactly what you need to hear. It doesn't matter how old you are. Doesn't matter how young you are.

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It takes about 90 hours with somebody for you to consider them, quote, a friend. And check this out. You need approximately 200 hours with somebody in order for you to consider someone a close friend. Now, let's unpack that. And first, I want to unpack that inside the context of friendship when we were little.

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If you think about your life when you were in elementary school and middle school and high school or in the military or in college or in a community college or a trade school, you were around people your age all the time.

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that proximity pillar boom handled by your life i mean riding the bus there's some time playing on the field there's some time sitting in a classroom there's some time being in a sorority there's some time sitting in a dining hall there's some time i mean you are literally clocking in 50 hours every single week with people your age but then what happens boom your 20s hit oh my gosh

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you barely see people your age. Why? Because you're all working. You're working all the time. And so when you really put this first pillar of proximity into the truth about your life and the fact that you got to spend 50 hours with somebody to kind of feel like you're a casual friend. You got to spend 90 hours with somebody. So that's like an average of 59, 70 hours to kind of be a quote friend.

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That's a lot of time. No wonder it feels so hard or almost impossible to make friends as an adult. Why? Because you have to be in proximity to people in order to spend the time with them. It makes sense, doesn't it? Of course it makes sense. And you want to know how important this is? They've actually done research about who makes friends with whom based on proximity.

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There was a famous study done about the state police. I believe it was in the state of Massachusetts where they were just curious, you know, when the cadets kind of meet each other freshman year or the first year of the police academy, who becomes friends? And they started to notice this trend that people that reported to be friends were very close in the alphabet. Why?

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Oh, well, because at the police academy, they were lining up in alphabetical order. They were sitting in classroom in alphabetical order. They found the same thing about chemists, that you were more likely to be very good friends with the bench scientist and chemist that was at the bench next to you doing lab research rather than the one in the lab across the hall. Why? Proximity matters.

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This is why you had such opportunity when you were a kid. It was a group sport. The proximity was handled. This also explains why it is so challenging and it feels impossible to make friends as an adult because you're not bumping into people anymore.

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And by the way, this also explains why once the grace scattering hits or you go through a major life change, positive or negative, you're going to feel like you don't see your friends anymore. Why? Well, because you might not be right in front of them anymore. Anytime you move, even if you're excited, guess what? Proximity changes. Anytime you change your job, guess what? Proximity changes.

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Anytime you change your relationship and the patterns of your life and you're no longer bumping into people all the time that you used to see, proximity just changes. It's about the pillar. It's not personal. why didn't I know this sooner? And so if you're in your 20s and you're really struggling because you feel your friendship slowly fading away, it's proximity. It's a pillar. It's not personal.

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Everything that you're about to learn is going to open your eyes and alter your life. Because yes, it is true. It does feel impossible to make adult friends. We all feel it. But after our conversation today, you will know the truth is that the best friendships of your life, they're not in the past. They are in your future.

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But it does beg the question, okay, Mel, I embrace the study from the University of Kansas. I got to spend 50 to 90 hours with somebody to be a friend. I got to spend 200 hours for somebody to be a close friend. Got it. But I don't want to get depressed because that's a lot of time and I don't have a lot of time. Why do you not have a lot of time?

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Well, according to the American Time Study, because between the ages of 21 and 60, guess where you and I spend all our time? We spend all our time at work. So it begs the question, if proximity is a extremely important pillar for creating friendships as an adult, why aren't we best friends with people at work? Great question.

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I thought the same thing because if I'm spending all week long, 60 hours a week in close proximity with people that I actually like, why am I not hanging out with them all the time? Why are they not my best friends? I'll tell you why. The second pillar, timing. See, everybody at work, even though you love them, they're in a different time of their life.

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Timing just means what chapter of your life are you in. And when you're at work, you're working with people who are all over the map. You might have people who are married, who are in their 50s or 60s. You might have people in their 20s. You might have people who are single, who are not single, who have kids, who don't have kids. You might have people who are healthy, who are not healthy.

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Everybody's all over the place, interested in different things. Yes, work puts you in close proximity, and these may be people that you like, but if you go out every weekend and get drunk and you're throwing up in a garbage can, at Monday morning, you're not gonna be yucking it up with everybody who spent the weekend with their adult kids or their grandkids out in the suburbs.

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You like these folks, you spend a lot of time with these folks, but you're not in the same time of life. When I reflect on moments of my adult life, friendship actually came very easily. Do you want to know when it was? Interestingly enough, it was when our kids were really little.

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Because when our kids were really little, my husband and I were in a suburban community surrounded by all these other people in the same time of our life. We were all raising kids the exact same age. And we kept bumping into each other at school drop-offs or at meetings at school or on the fields on the soccer games on Saturdays. And we had so much in common. Why? Because we had kids the same age.

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And so two of the pillars were present, proximity. and timing, which creates the conditions for you to meet people who are going through the same thing that you can relate to and connect on, and to keep spending time together, which creates the conditions for friendship. But a funny thing happens when your kids go from middle school to high school.

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And today, you're going to get the step-by-step roadmap and the insights that you need to go create them. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and I just want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited you're here, and I'm especially excited about what you and I are going to talk about today. This is research and insights that changed my life. It has made my life better.

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There's this scattering that happens, and the boys teams and the girls teams separate, and suddenly you're not seeing the same people, And your kids start to hang out with their own friends, and they may not be hanging out with the kids their same age from the friend group that was bigger.

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And then you start to scatter, and then you stop seeing all the people that you hung out with when you were in elementary school and middle school. You stop seeing them so much, and then those friendships start to scatter. You are going to experience this over and over and over again.

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And the mistake that I made that turned me into a walking red flag is because I didn't know about the great scattering. I didn't understand these three pillars of friendship that I have discovered that I'm talking and teaching you right now. So I thought this was personal. I thought people didn't like me. I thought I had to grip onto my friendships.

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When I saw people getting together, I kind of expected to be included. And when I wasn't, I was hurt. And I took it personally. And then I started to cling and grip and feel insecure. And then I'm putting out really weird energy. And that brings me to the third pillar of friendship. And that's energy. See, you are not going to be in control of proximity.

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and you're not going to be in control of the timing of life that you're in. But I'm here to tell you, you are in control of your energy. And energy is one of those things between people that it either clicks or it doesn't. Like, you either kind of feel this thing with somebody, or you don't, and you can't force it. And the second that the energy shifts or it's off, it's off.

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And what I've noticed, and this is, again, a big mistake that I've made, is that when the energy feels off, when I was in my 20s, 30s, and 40s, oh my God, I just hit the accelerator and tried to force it, which only makes the energy worse. If the energy's off, trust the energy. Because the energy can be off for a bazillion different reasons.

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It might be off because you're just two different types of people. It doesn't mean you have to hate each other. It just means they're not your people. If the energy's off, it might just be because you're interested in different things. You know, you might be somebody that doesn't drink and this is a big party crowd. Energy is going to be off.

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You might be somebody who's crazy into health and fitness and reading personal development books. And the person you're talking to just thinks that's kind of cheesy. Not going to work. You might be somebody that is a very deep person. And you might be talking to somebody who's just like loving stuff kind of on the surface. That's okay. The energy is a little off though. Don't try to force it.

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Trust the energy. Trust that if you just show up with an open heart and you show up as yourself and you're kind of a kind, open-hearted person, that energy is guiding you toward your people. So you get into a mistake when you try to force it. That's where you're going to get insecure. That's where you're going to be a red flag.

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That's where you're going to get passive aggressive and clingy and you're going to take everything personally. Don't do it. And that's where the let them theory has changed my life. Learning to say, let them. Let them be a person that I don't click with and still wish them well. Let them come and go in my life and not make it personal.

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Let me take a more flexible and open-minded approach to adult friendship because everybody's got a lot going on. There's great scatterings all over the place. People are going to come and go in your life. The energy is going to shift and change between you and people that you love. And that's a beautiful thing. I see so much online about breaking up with friendship and when a friendship ends.

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What if a friendship never ends? Like for real. Just entertain that idea for a second. What if a friendship never ends? What if friendships go through seasons and there are times where you're connected with people and times where you're not? I mean, have you ever had an experience in your life where You had a friend that you were in close proximity with. You're in the same time of life.

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You're into the same things. And so the energy just was the energy. And then either fade or you had a falling out or some such thing like that. And years go by. And next thing you know, you come back around and you see this person at a reunion or a funeral or a wedding, or you just randomly bump into them in some city or on a vacation.

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And all of a sudden, with all that distance and with the changes and the growth that you've both had and the things that you've experienced along the way, you come back together in a moment of proximity and timing and the energy's there. Interesting, isn't it? Oh, I'm on a roll. I have so much to tell you.

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And I want to just pause so we can hear a word from our friends, our sponsors, who I just adore, who support this show. But while you're listening to them, share this with somebody who's coming to mind, a friend of yours that you haven't talked to in a while that you want to connect with, maybe somebody that you know is kind of lonely or they're in a new chapter.

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And this is going to be life-changing information. It's a phenomenal way for you to connect with them by sharing them this episode and telling them that you were thinking about them, oh my gosh, it's going to make a huge difference in their life. And don't go anywhere. We have so much more to dig into, and we're going to do that next. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

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We're going to be talking about friendship. You are going to love this. You're going to want to share this with people that you know, that you love, and in fact, If this is one of your first episodes, I want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

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And today you and I are talking about why it feels impossible to make adult friends. But we are hitting that right in the face because it's not impossible. In fact, it is very possible when you understand the three pillars of adult friendship and you understand the new rules of adult friendship. And so let's keep going.

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There is a fundamental rule that you have to follow about adult friendship that I did not know. until a few years ago. And that is take a flexible approach. Let people come in and out of your life. Let the energy be off. Let it be on. Let people move. Let them move on. Let them get married and have babies while you're still single. And don't make it personal. Wish them well.

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You know, I didn't know this. I just literally felt like if I wasn't talking to somebody or seeing them all the time or being invited to things that they were doing that we weren't friends. It's not true. Like this whole notion that you got best friends and friends for life, it is a modern construct that actually sets us up to fail. Friendships don't actually end.

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They just come in and out of your life. And the let them theory and learning to say, let them. Let them live their lives. Let them change. Let them move on. Let them scatter in different directions. Let them meet new friends. Let them live with other people. Let them not invite me. Let them have a social life without me.

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Let me stop expecting other people to be responsible for my relationship with them. Let me take responsibility for creating it. Let me take a more flexible approach. Let me wish people well. Let me grow up and be mature and realize that just because I'm not, quote, seeing somebody all the time or we're not really clicking right now, that doesn't mean they're my enemy.

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You know, one of the things that I write about in the Let Them Theory is people hold no power over you unless you give it to them. And so all of those people that you think are no longer your friends or are your frenemies or you're against, that's you giving people power. What if you were more flexible?

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What if you embraced the three pillars, proximity, timing, and energy, and you recognize before you're quick to judge that person's this, this person's that, that it's not personal actually. This is the law of friendship, proximity, timing, energy.

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And any time a friendship starts to fade or feels forced or you're frustrated or you're on the outside looking in or you get kicked out of the friend group or somebody stabs you in the back or gossips behind you or whatever it is that's happening or you feel lonely, like it's impossible to make friends right now. How am I even gonna build friendships? I'm totally overwhelmed.

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I know that you're the type of person, you value your time, number one. Number two, you made the time to listen to this, and that means you're interested in learning about ways that you can improve your life. And one of those ways that you want to improve your life is by creating friendships. I love that for you. And if you're here because somebody forwarded this to you, guess what?

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That any time that that happens to you, instead of bashing yourself or the other person, you go, wait a minute, the great scattering. This is not a group sport. It's an individual one. I can no longer expect friendship to happen. I have to take responsibility for creating it. And I am adopting a very flexible approach to this.

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Anytime that a friendship starts to fade, I'm going to ask myself, did any of the three pillars changed? Because if proximity changes, your friendship is going to change. If the timing of your life or their life changes, your friendship is going to change. If the energy starts to shift, and energy shifts for a good reason. You want to know why energy shifts?

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It's because it's a sign that you're changing and growing in new directions, and it's a sign that they're changing and growing in new directions. And that's a good thing.

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And that's why I'm saying, before you blow up a friendship, before you sign off and say there or this or that or the other thing, before you feel sorry for yourself and you blame yourself, ask yourself, have any of these three pillars of adult friendship changed? Because if they have, it's not personal. It's a pillar. And you need to take a more flexible approach.

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And I want to share with you an analogy that one of our senior producers, Yuna, shared with me. And she has this analogy for friendships of a rubber band. So I want you to imagine every friendship in your life is a rubber band.

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And when all three pillars are present, you have proximity, you have the same timing in life that you're in, and you have energy that's clicking because you're kind of up to the same thing. It's like a rubber band that is at rest. You know, it's tight, it's close, it's round.

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But when one of those pillars changes, whether it's one of you going off to graduate school or you're getting married or you move halfway around the world or you're going through a breakup and you're in a relationship or one of you stops drinking and the other one doesn't, any change in any of the pillars is going to stretch that friendship forever.

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And you're going to feel the strain on the friendship if you don't understand these three pillars. You're going to feel the person pulling away. And I think we've all been in one of those friendships where you've been super, super close. One of you moves or one of you changes jobs or one of you starts a family. And next thing you know, they're so busy, you never see each other.

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And then every time you get on the phone, it's like, I never talked to you. And then you feel the guilt trip. And then you're like, but it doesn't have to be this way. And then you cannot find any time to get together. And as you look at your calendars, it's like, why do we need a scheduler who runs logistics for UPS to figure out our two calendars?

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And why are we unable to find a date except for a Tuesday seven months from now for a two-hour window? I'll tell you why. Because the timing of everybody's life has gotten crazy. People get stretched by the demands of their life. You know, if you have to spend all week at work or in graduate school or caring for an aging parent or for little kids, you have very little free time.

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And one of the things that has really surprised me is that I'm in my 50s. I thought I would have way more time for friends now. I thought I'd be dancing around and all this stuff. Are you kidding? I have less time because I have three adult kids. I have a full-time job. Any free time that I have, I'm trying to spend time with either my kids or my aging parents.

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This is a sign that you do have friends. This is a sign that you do have people that care about you. And so I love that for you. And I love what we're going to talk about because you are going to feel so empowered. You're going to feel even more connected to friends because today I'm going to remind you of truths that you already know.

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I've got so much going on just like you do that the tiny amount of time that I have trying to get that to line up with somebody that I care about that may not even live near me, the proximity's gone. This is what I mean by the rubber band stretching. And I want you to have that visual because guess what? the rubber band is still intact.

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It's just stretched because one of these three pillars is no longer present. And oftentimes for me, it's proximity. Like my most favorite people in the world literally don't live near me. Like my closest friends, my oldest friends, I'm mad at them. Aren't you mad at the people that you love that don't live near you? Why can't they move near you? Proximity is not there.

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The rubber band is stretched, but it's still intact. And guess what happens? With time, with more mini scatterings, it comes back into shape again.

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The most important reason why I want you to think about this is because if you cling and you grip and you become like I was, really toxic and yanking on that relationship and making the other person wrong and having passive aggressive energy because you weren't invited and meh, meh, meh, meh. guess what's going to happen? You are going to snap that rubber band.

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You are going to be the one that breaks it because your energy shifts and then nobody wants to hang out with you because you're not being flexible because you simply didn't understand the three pillars and you made it personal. And that's not going to happen anymore.

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And the reason why it's not going to happen anymore is because you're going to take a flexible approach and you're going to remember the rubber band and you're going to check yourself.

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Let me check myself before I start taking it out on somebody else or making myself feel like a loser or telling myself that this is impossible and I'll never have friends and everybody's moved on and this is... I'll never find my people. You're going to remember these pillars and you're going to go, wait, it's not personal. It's about the pillars.

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And that means I have the power to create incredible friendships. And so I know you're thinking, okay, I'm in Mel, thank you. This is so eye-opening. I've already forwarded this episode to like 15 of my friends that I need to be flexible with. I forward it to my adult kids, like everybody needs to hear this and I agree with you. And I am going to teach you the exact approach

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that I used in order to find some of the best friends of my life at the age of 52 when we moved to a brand new community. I had to start all over. I was incredibly lonely. But first, I want to address something because you're going to have to be flexible with this. It's not going to be easy in the beginning because none of us like to put ourselves out there.

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We have been trained by our childhood to just expect friendship. And so I want to read a passage to you from page 186 of the Let Them Theory book. And this is in the section of the book that is all about using the Let Them Theory to create some of the best friendships of your life and these three pillars that we're discussing.

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that friendship matters, that you're capable of creating it, that the best friendships, some of the most fabulous people, they're not on the road behind you, they're on the road ahead of you, and you're going to get what you need today to know how to create those friendships, despite the fact that it feels impossible right now as an adult to make new friends.

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And this is a passage that's all about using the let them theory to take a more flexible approach. If you say hello at a coffee shop and they aren't very friendly, let them. If their calendar's so busy they can't find time to go for a walk, let them. If they cancel plans this weekend because they've had a long week at work, let them.

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If they fall in love or have a baby and you're no longer a priority, let them. If they move away, they start a different chapter, let them. If they stop returning your calls, let them. If they're prioritizing other friendships or work, let them. If the timing, proximity, or energy is off, let them. See, people are going to come and they're going to go in your life.

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And the more flexible you are, the more they come and go. And it's such a beautiful thing to let them. I want you to focus on the second part of the theory. Let me. Because that's what's in your control. Let me be understanding. Let me make an effort. Let me check in without expectation, but just because I care. Let me make the plans. Let me trust when the energy feels off.

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Let me call or text if someone crosses my mind. Let me act with the belief that some of my most favorite friends, I haven't even met them yet. Let me go first. That is how I embraced these three pillars of proximity, timing, and energy. That is how I learned a more flexible approach to friendship.

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That is how I took responsibility for creating more fun and a social life and finding and having some of the best friendships of my entire life. The let me go first part, because I'll tell you, I've wasted years of my life feeling sorry for myself. I've wasted years of my life sitting alone, bitter at home, feeling like everybody's life was some giant party that I wasn't invited to.

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The let them theory woke me up to a simple truth. friendship matters. Friends are going to come and go. And friendship is there for you to create, but you got to take responsibility for it, which means you got to get out of your house. You got to be the one with the open approach. You got to be the one making an effort. You got to go first. Don't you just love this?

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I love this topic and I love this research and I love these pillars and it's so liberating to know all this. And you can tell I'm excited for you, can't you? Well, I am because I can't wait for you to create incredible friendships. And speaking of that, share this with a friend because we all need this information.

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And when you share this with a friend, you are reaching out, you're going first, you're connecting with them and that's a beautiful thing. And don't go anywhere because after this short word from our sponsors, I'm gonna be waiting for you. like a good friend to welcome you back. And we're going to keep going because there's a lot more I want to share with you. So stay with me. Welcome back.

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Why Making Friends as an Adult Feels Impossible & What to Do About It

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Because what we're also going to discuss is rules about adult friendship that you need to know. These are rules I had no idea existed. I didn't discover them until about three or four years ago. These rules are going to change the game entirely, just like they changed the game of friendship for me.

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It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I've been waiting for you and I'm so glad you're still here. And I want to thank you for sharing this with your friends. This is information we all need. And it's also going to be something cool that you can connect around. So what I want to dig into next is this.

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I'm going to teach you step by step the things that I did that helped me when I moved at the age of 52 to a brand new community in the middle of nowhere. There's only 3,000 people in this town after living outside of Boston for 26 years and the things that I did to go first. And I'm going to walk you through that, but I want to address a couple questions that I see over and over and over again.

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And this one comes from a fellow listener named Charlotte. Mel, I've been using let them and I've been using let them so much that I hardly have any friends anymore. Do I continue to let them or do I voice my feelings?

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So this is something that I saw when I was researching the theory and the more that I've been talking about the rules of adult friendship out in the world, everybody's saying that, okay, I get it. But now that I'm saying let them and I'm taking a more flexible approach, I'm noticing that the people that I used to think were, quote, my friends, Well, I'm the one making the effort.

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Like I'm the one making the plans. And if I don't make the plans, they're not making plans. I'm the one that's reaching out, but they don't actually reach out back. So here's what I want you to do. This is a very common thing to have happen. When you take a flexible approach and you start saying, let them, people are going to reveal to you through their behavior that,

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where they are in life, what their priorities are, and sometimes you're going to see firsthand that when you stop making an effort, they're not making an effort back. This is normal. And this is the second part. You gotta say, let me. If you find that you're only saying let them, you're using the theory wrong.

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You can't actually just stop by going, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, okay? Because if you only say let them, you are gonna feel lonely. Because you're going to realize that people are super busy. People are in different timings of their life. The energy may be off. And so I don't want you to stop and let them. You've got to say the second part, let me.

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If you knew me, Mel Robbins, in my 20s, 30s, or even 40s, first of all, I apologize because I will own the fact that I was a walking red flag as a friend. You know, I was the kind of person who was both clingy and also exclusive. I was kind of transactional.

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And here's some of the questions you should ask yourself. Let me ask myself, has proximity changed? Like, am I not bumping into them a lot anymore? Is the timing of our life changed? What if you were more flexible and realized that your role in life is you're the one that reaches out. You're the one that creates connection.

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Not because you expect it back, but because the let me part is that in creating connection and reaching out to people and checking in and making plans, it actually is part of your value. It creates something for you. Or what you might discover as you say let me, let me remind myself, I get to choose how much time and energy I pour into this.

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If somebody's energy is shifted, if the timing is shifted, if the proximity is shifted, you can also shift how much time and energy you put into the relationship. And so if you're finding that the friendships, they're stretched, and you're sitting there and realizing you're surrounded by people that don't reciprocate, that's normal. Now you get to choose.

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So whether you're listening right now and you're in your 20s, and the only thing that is holding your friendships together from college is a text chain, and that text chain is getting quieter,

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Do I want to continue to put as much time and energy into these people? Or do I let me want to go create new friendships with new people because I'm in a new phase of my life? And one last point about Charlotte, do I voice my feelings? I think it just depends. on what you want to create. Are you voicing your feelings to make somebody wrong because that's you expecting friendship?

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Or are you voicing your feelings because you just miss somebody and you're a little concerned that something may be wrong? And I had a friend do this to me about a year ago where they texted me a number of times, and I am the world's worst person to texting back. I appreciate everybody that's in my life that is patient with me with this.

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But I hate the fact that we have gotten to the point where just because you have the time to text, you expect that somebody else owes you a text back. That you have direct access to somebody is actually a privilege. And I don't think it's fair. That texting somebody means you should expect them to text you back on your timeline.

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And for somebody who's really busy or going through a crisis, they are so inundated that your text they probably read and was like, oh, I got to get back to you. And then 15 more came in. And so again, resist the urge to grip, resist the urge to make it personal, resist the urge to expect it and be more flexible.

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and it is getting quieter, or you're in your 30s, and everybody is suddenly in different stages of life, or maybe you're in your 40s or your 50s like me, and the chapter of your life is changing profoundly, which is impacting your friendships, or you're older, I mean, we all need friends. I don't care how old you are. I was just talking to my father the other day, and my dad is 80.

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Assume that people have a lot going on and text because you want to text, not because you expect it. a text in return. When you start to operate like that, you have so much more freedom because you are no longer transactional and you're no longer the one that's gripping and stretching and being kind of like passive in your relationships.

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And so this friend of mine reaches out to me after a number of texts that I didn't respond to because I saw him and it was a crazy period at work and something was going on with one of our kids and I just didn't have the energy, honestly, to respond. And he said something like, I can't even remember what it was, but it was something really passive and aggressive.

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And I wrote back and I said, look, I have so much going on. You're right. Our friendship and texting all day, it's not a priority, but that doesn't mean I don't care about you. And I apologize that my silence left you assuming something was wrong. There's nothing wrong with our friendship. There's just a lot going on right now and I have very little energy, but I so appreciate you checking in.

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And that's all that it took. That's it. That's it. But again, you're assuming that somebody doesn't like you. You're assuming that the person's a jerk. It's so much cooler in life to just assume people have a lot going on. And again, it's not personal. It's all about these pillars. And here's another question that is so important. Mel, this comes from a listener named Seema.

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What do you do when you put yourself out there? You're hosting parties, you're organizing events, you're inviting friends over, only to realize they don't invite you back. How do you deal with the lack of reciprocation and avoid falling back into the same lonely place where you started trying to build these friendships?

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So Seema, you have to ask yourself, are you throwing parties to try to trap friends? Or are you throwing parties and being social because you love to be social and throw parties and you're super flexible with who shows up and what they do in response? I'm going to tell you the other side of this story. I have a friend named Maxine who is extraordinary at planning things.

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She puts herself out there. She is a force. I love this woman so much. I am so excited to be her friend. She is constantly throwing parties and

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I just have to say, she always invites Chris and I. And I don't know what it is about timing or whatever else, but we never seem to be in town whenever she's throwing a party or our kids are just arriving from being away and I haven't seen them for three months. And so I want to go pick them up at the airport.

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And I could see if she were a different person that she would no longer invite me, right? If she didn't have a flexible and open approach to friendship, If she didn't see friendship as a rubber band that stretches back and forth, she might see the fact that I'm often not able to come as a sign that, eh, Mel. And here's the other thing. I haven't thrown a dinner party in probably a year.

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One of my goals this year in 2025 is to be more proactive in that regard, to throw more parties. What I think is a more powerful approach is throw a party because you want to throw a party. but don't throw a party because you expect to be invited back. That is what I mean by a flexible approach. And look, do you deserve friendship that's mutual? Of course.

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And I was saying to him, hey, so dad, have you and mom thought about where you might want to go in terms of a retirement community? I mean, are there any friends that you have that are living in one that they seem to love that you would want to go to one where your friends are? And he paused.

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Do you deserve friends that make an effort? Of course. Do you deserve reciprocity? Of course. You also get to choose where you invest your time and where you invest your energy. And let me just say the hard truth that none of us wanna talk about. There are gonna be people in your life that don't wanna be friends with you.

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And there are going to be people that you don't want to be friends with either, but you're kind of in that circle. And so you're going to find yourself also in situations where you're doing an invite. And you know how parties tend to have that sort of max six limit?

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Because once you get over six people or three couples and you add those extra two and now it's eight and it's four couples, now you start to think, oh my God, I should invite so-and-so because we've invited these guys and now it seems like a bigger thing. And then they're going to wonder why weren't they invited. We all go through it. And so this is why the let them part is super important.

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If you wanna have eight people and some other people are not going to be invited, let them be disappointed. Let them wonder what's up. Let me throw the party I wanna throw with the people I wanna throw it with. Let me not feel obligated to invite 75 people or 10 people Let me invite however many people I want to invite because this is the group of people I want to invite.

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I mean, I'm sure you've been invited to parties where you're only going because it's part of a group of people that you know, but you don't even really like the person that's throwing the party, but you're going because you know it's going to be a good party. We've all been there, which is why we all need to be more flexible. And here's the funny thing about life.

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I promise you, at some point in the future, maybe 10 years, maybe 20 years, maybe 20 weeks from now, that person whose party that you went to or who comes to yours, it's not really your friend or the energy's sort of off, I guarantee you the rubber band is stretching right now. But at some point in the future, you might bump back again, energy's on, and suddenly you're friends.

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That's adult friendship. It's flexible. Let people come in and out of your life. Let them leave. Let them invite you. Let them not invite you. Let them be disappointed that you didn't invite them. Let them misunderstand that you're in a super busy season of your life. Let them, let them, let them. Let them because it allows you to live your life consistently with the law of adult friendship.

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Do not expect it. You have to create it. Do not force it. Be flexible with it. Do not blow up your friendships. Do not make it personal. Look at the three pillars and understand this is how adult friendship works. In fact, this is how friendship has worked all along. It's just now an individual sport. And perhaps you're hearing this for the first time.

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And he said, well, you know, Mel, unfortunately, a lot of our friends are older, and they're starting to die. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's true. And then he paused and he said, so I guess mom and I are going to have to make new friends. What an amazing thing to say, isn't it? We all deserve friendship. And that's why we're going to talk about this. It's a huge part of your life.

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And that brings me to this question from a listener named Jack. Hey, Mel, I really want to expand my circle and have a more diverse group of friends. It feels like I'm always hanging out with the same kind of people, and I'd love to connect with others who have backgrounds and experiences that challenge me to grow. I just don't know where to start or how to meet them. Any advice?

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Love this question. And I'm going to answer this in a way that's relevant to you. If you can relate to Jack's question, you're like, okay, I've got a group of friends, but I'd like to meet different types of people. Or...

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You're like I was a couple years ago and the great scattering has hit and some change has happened in your life and now you feel like you're starting at zero again in a brand new place in your life or a brand new place in the world or your career or in your relationship and you're starting over because the same rules apply. And the first rule I've already told you and that is you go first.

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This is the let me part of the theory when it comes to friendship, okay? So what does that mean you go first? It means don't sit in your house alone. It means don't sit at the coffee shop and cross your arms. It means take an open, friendly approach to this. And here's how I did it. You know, when I first moved to this small town, I write about this in, you

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I sat alone in my house crying for like a year. I thought I had made the worst mistake of my life. And it reminded me of the time when my daughter Sawyer, who wrote the book with me, went to her freshman year of college. She was a freshman at Boston College. She would call me almost every day crying. I'm at the wrong school. I'm not having any fun. My people aren't here.

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And I would tell her the same thing over and over and over again. Give it a year. Give it a year. Give it a year. And it's going to take you a year of meeting all different types of people to find the proximity, the timing, and the energy so that you find your people. And somehow when I was 52 years old and I moved to this small town, I forgot my own advice. So I didn't give it a year.

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I sulked for a year. I clung to my friends who were back in Boston. I watched their lives play out online. I felt like I was missing out on everything. I gripped. I was so lonely. I didn't put myself out there. I would literally go into my favorite coffee shop and I would sit alone and read a book. I wouldn't talk to anybody because I was sulking in my loneliness.

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Well, that all changed when I applied the advice I'm about to tell you. I literally just started to say hello. I introduced myself to people. And here's a little trick I want you to steal. I have shared this before online. I'm sharing it now with you. This has saved me. When you want to start to meet people, let's say you have your favorite coffee shop, right?

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And you're going to use your coffee shop as a way to practice going first. If you don't know the names of the people that work in the coffee shop, that's the first step. When you go in tomorrow morning, you are going to introduce yourself to the cashier. You can say something like, you know, I'm in here all the time. What is your name? And introduce yourself, okay? And then here's the trick.

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Take out your notes app on your phone and create a contact for that coffee shop. And then in the notes section in your phone, write down a description of the person, tall person with a beard, name is Kevin, has glasses. Boom. And here's why you're going to need it.

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If you're anything like me, when you're putting yourself out there, you get a little like kind of on edge, you immediately forget somebody's name. I do it all the time too. Don't wait until you get to the table. Do it immediately after you say hello. Put it in your notes app and you're going to thank me. You want to know why?

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The next day when you pull up to the same coffee shop, you are going to look at the contact in your phone for the coffee shop and you're going to remind yourself, oh yeah, the person with the beard, their name is Kevin. And then you're going to walk in there and be like, hey, Kevin, it's Mel. It's okay if you don't remember my name. And you chat up a little bit.

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And so no matter how old or young you may be, no matter where you are in the journey of friendship, You deserve great friends. And so if you're finding that it's impossible to create friends as an adult, you're not alone. But what I'm gonna promise you is this.

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Now, then you're going to start to do that with the people that you see in there all the time. I see you in here all the time. What's your name? What are you reading? Start complimenting people. I love your socks. I love your nails. People open up when you compliment them. It's such an easy way if you're introverted or shy to just break the ice.

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And the reason why this matters, and there's research around this, is that these micro connections, just saying hi to somebody, knowing the name of the person that runs the front desk or kind of the mail room in your building, knowing the names of the dogs that you see at the dog park, these micro connections, they matter. And they matter deeply.

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The research out of Harvard, this was shared with me on this podcast by Harvard's Dr. Robert Waldinger, is that these micro connections actually improve loneliness. There's even a word for it. Researchers call these sort of friendly faces that you start to see at the post office and in your building and in the elevator at work and at the cafeteria at your school, they call them weak ties.

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I hate that name. You wanna know why? I think they're some of the strongest ties that lift you up when you're feeling lonely. Because all of these familiar faces that you start to create by going first and saying hello and being open and flexible, and if they're not that friendly, let them because let me go first. Let me be the friendly one.

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They actually create strong ties and a foundation that lifts you out of loneliness and makes you feel like you are part of a community. And that starts to melt away this armor that you have, to use a word that Brene Brown uses, that we kind of stiffen up and close ourselves off. And I'm telling you, one hello at a time. And I've now got like 32 people in my notes app for this coffee shop.

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And I now don't even have to look at it because I know them all because I've spent the last three years talking to them. In fact, this morning... I met a bunch of women that I met at the coffee shop that I walk with on Wednesdays. It's so flipping cold where we live now that we decided to meet at the coffee shop. I met them all for coffee this morning.

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And I'm gonna tell you something else about this. It's a go first thing and it's a let me find the time. Everybody's busy. You know, when it was 7.50 this morning and we were meeting at eight o'clock and it takes me 20 minutes to get down there, I thought, do I have time for this? I gotta be back here by nine o'clock. Oh my gosh, should I? I'm like, Mel? Let me go. Let me make the time.

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This matters. Let me make the effort. And I'm going to tell you something. Making the time to sit with my new friends for 23 minutes at the coffee shop this morning, it changed my entire day. You have to make the time. It's not on them to make the time for you. It's on you to make the time for friendship to happen.

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Not only is our conversation today gonna be eye-opening and empowering, but I'm gonna make you feel better because you will embrace the simple truth

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That's why this flexible approach and this let me go first approach is going to work. And, you know, you're going to love this and give it a year. Because I promise you, the more you say hello and the more you compliment people... the faster you're going to bump into one of the most favorite people you've ever met. And that's exactly what's happened to me in this town of 3,000 people.

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And if I can freaking do this at 52 years old in a town of 3,000 people, you can do it at whatever age you're in, one hello at a time, wherever you live. Now, what do you do if you want to find different types of friends? If you're looking for friends that kind of lift you up, here's the second thing you're going to do.

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Let me find a new activity that I've always wanted to do, whether it's a CrossFit gym or a yoga studio or a painting class. There's all this research, particularly if you're older, about going to an art class and how it connects you with other people that are interested in growing and learning and being creative. join a book club at the local library, start a book club.

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My husband is really interested in skiing and in golf. So what did he do? He joined a golf league. He also joined a race team at the local ski mountain. And then as he started riding the lift with people once a week to do this local kind of race team thing, he realized a lot of people there are also telemark skiers like we are.

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that some of the best friendships of your life are ahead of you and you are fully capable of creating them no matter where you are where you live how old or young you are so thank you thank you thank you for taking the time to listen to this because your life is going to get better and also thank you for taking the time to share this with people that you know that may feel lonely or heck everybody because we all deserve to have incredible friends so

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Now he has a group of people that he meets several mornings a week and they literally skin up a mountain They bring their dogs. It's totally awesome. There's like 30 or 40 of them that meet at times. He created that for himself and you can do the same thing. And the other cool thing about using an activity is that the activity itself attracts people that have the same kind of energy.

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that are interested in the same things, just like when you were little and you're on the same team. It's like creating that condition for friendship that puts you in proximity, that puts you in the same timing of life in terms of the interest that you have in something, and that gives you a greater possibility to just connect with people that have energy that clicks. I mean, how cool is this?

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Here's another really important one. Go places alone. Go to the coffee shop alone. Go to the lecture alone. And when you sit down, go first. Let me go first and talk to the person next to you. Just ask them, like, have you ever been here before? Do you know anything about this exhibit? Oh, I love your socks. How long have you lived here?

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You'll be so surprised how the warmth that you give to others comes back to you. How the openness that you approach with friendship comes brings more openings to you. And finally, I'm going to remind you, give it a year. Give it a year, especially if you're in a new environment, a new place, a new job, a new school, you're in a new chapter of your life, give it a year.

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Because I'm going to come back to something that I shared with you at the beginning. Remember the research from the It takes 50 hours for you to kind of have a casual friend, meet at the coffee shop. It takes 90 hours to consider them a friend friend. And it takes 200 hours for you to feel like they're a very close friend. Now, this is just research. But that's why you need to give it a year.

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It makes sense, doesn't it? And I love this framework so much because it's just like letting air out of a tire, right? The pressure's gone. It's not personal. You're not screwing anything up. Nobody ever told you this before.

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And if you can't see what the pillars are, you don't understand that the rules changed on you when you were 20 and nobody told you, of course, you're going to feel like it's impossible. Because you don't know the rules. And now that you know the rules, you can play the game. Colleen says, how do you make friends when life's falling apart? I just lost my job. I'm going through a tough divorce.

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I'm barely scraping by financially. I can't afford to grab coffee and I'm too embarrassed to host in my home. That's actually a thing that I can relate to. I remember when Chris and I were really struggling and our house was really small and a lot of people had a lot bigger houses. I didn't want to have people over. I totally understand that.

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When you're already feeling low, how do you actually connect with others when you need friends the most? So first of all, Colleen, don't forget all the people that you know in your life. I want you to go through your camera roll. I want you to go through your Facebook friends.

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I want you to look at photos from high school and from college, if you went to college, and remind yourself that those people are still there. And oftentimes, all it takes is a text from somebody you haven't heard from in a very long time checking in, you cross my mind. to rekindle something.

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I mean, haven't you had the experience where somebody reaches out to you, you haven't heard from them for a long time? I recently reconnected with my freshman college roommate, Bernadine, shout out Bernadine Wu, I love you, and another friend from college, Wes Wang, and we are now in a text group. We're constantly texting. It's so much fun. I haven't truly been in contact with them consistently,

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for over 30 years. And it's like no time went by. Those people are still there. And if any one of them has gotten a divorce, I guarantee you, if you reached out and said, hey, I know it's been a long time, but you crossed my mind. And I thought you might be able to give me some advice right now. I'm going through a divorce. My life is falling apart.

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Let's talk about why making friends as an adult is so hard. There is a massive shift that happens in adult friendship when you hit 20, and no one sees this coming. I didn't see it coming. You didn't see it coming. See, the rules of friendship completely change when your 20s hit.

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I know you went through something like that recently. If you have any words of wisdom or a book that you would recommend, I would deeply appreciate it. And I'd also love to hear how you're doing. you will be shocked at what comes back. And if nothing comes back, let them.

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And assume good intent that they're just super busy and maybe they didn't recognize your number, so make sure you tell them who it is. And another thing, there's lots of free things out there. There's things going on at the local library. There's lectures going on at the high school.

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There are friends of yours that you've lost touch with that may not be from long ago that have also gone through a divorce. There are family members that can be friends of yours. So don't assume that because they're not in front of your face, they aren't still there. You have to go first. You have to recognize that this is important for you and you don't need to spend money to do it.

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You need to pick up the phone and you need to make the effort because people don't know that you need help typically unless you ask for it.

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And what I've found is most of the time when you reach out and say, I thought of you because you're super wise and you're always inspiring and I'm going through a tough time and I would love to hear your advice or recommendations for what you think I should do. People love to give advice. They love to help.

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But if nobody knows that you need the help because you've been so stoic and you're isolating, how can they? Let me go first. Let me ask for what I need. I also want to give you a few things that I've adopted that have made a huge difference in my ability to go first and my ability to create friendships, my ability to do the let me part, right?

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You're gonna say let them a lot, but the let me part is where the friendships get created. So number one, I learned this trick from my friend, Brendan Burchard. I love Brendan, shout out to Brendan Burchard. And he has this part of his morning routine that I've made part of mine that before I start my workday, or send a voice memo to somebody I'm thinking about.

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And it is an incredible way to really keep those ties with people that are not in proximity with you or they're in a different timing of your life. It's almost like fluffing a pillow. You just kind of keep the energy going and you remind people that you're there for them and they... When they respond back, they remind you that they're there for you. And so I have a couple ground rules about this.

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When you reach out with a, hey, you just crossed my mind. I just want to know I'm thinking about you. I miss you. Sending you so much love. Don't say let's get together if you don't want to get together. Okay, don't do that. It's enough to just say I was thinking about you and I just want you to know I'm sending you so many good vibes. I hope you're dynamite.

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If you want to get together, say it, but throw out a date. I mean, I'm sure you have these friendships that are just all text-based. We all do these days. It's like, oh, let's see, we should get together, but nobody throws out a date. Just leave it off the text if you don't want to see them or you don't have time to, or it's gonna be too impossible.

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But if you've got something coming up, I love doing this. When Chris and I are going to a concert, I will blast that concert out to like 15 other people and say, hey, we just bought tickets to this. If you guys wanna go, grab tickets and let us know, and then we can make a plan around the concert.

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Do you see how you're not organizing anybody, but you are organizing everybody and you're not responsible for the group, but you're creating this condition for proximity and shared timing on something and the energy to click? It's such an easy thing to do. I also have car friends.

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And so I'm gonna explain what the rules of friendship were when you were little, and then we're gonna talk about the rules of adult friendship that hit when you turn 20. So when you were little, all the conditions for meeting friends, creating friendships, having friends in your life, they were all handled for you. I mean, just think about life when you were a little kid.

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So whenever I'm on a long drive, I'm in the car for more than an hour, if I'm not listening to an audio book, you know what I'm doing? I'm calling all my friends that don't live near me or I'm calling somebody that I haven't had time to call back. I love driving and talking with friends because it makes me feel like they're in the car with me and it's a great thing to do as you're driving.

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You don't need a half an hour. You don't. If you have six minutes, call somebody. If you're standing in a long line, call somebody. And you start the call by saying, you crossed my mind and instead of texting you, I've got six minutes right now. I thought I'd pick up the phone and call you and just say, I miss you and tell me something that you're excited about that's going on in your life. Boom.

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And then you say, oh my gosh, it's my turn at the grocery store. I just wanted you to know I was thinking about you. It's so good to hear your voice. Stay in touch. Boom. There you go. That's it. That one phone call just fluffed the pillow. You went first. You were flexible. You took a proactive approach to friendship. You didn't expect it. You created it.

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And every time you do, you're taken one step closer to creating the single best friendships of your life. Because again, as I told you in the beginning, the best friendships of your life are not behind you. They're ahead of you on the road of life. And isn't it so exciting? to truly embrace that truth, that you haven't even met some of your most favorite people in life yet.

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In fact, they may be sitting next to you at the coffee shop, just waiting for you to say hello. And now that you know the three pillars of adult friendship and you know that it's never personal and you are gonna take a more flexible and proactive approach, you're gonna let them come and go, You're going to let me go first. You're going to let me reach out.

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You're going to let me create the best friendships of my life. You can go find them. And that makes me so happy for you. I cannot wait to hear how you use this. I can't wait to hear how you share this with people that you love and you use this conversation to connect with people that you love.

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I'm particularly excited for you to share this with the 20-somethings that are really struggling in this area right now and the people in their 40s and 50s who are, but we're all kind of finding it difficult. But I truly hope from the bottom of my heart that everything that I shared was eye-opening, it was empowering, and it tells you exactly what you can do.

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to create the best friends of your life. Now you just gotta go do it. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life.

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I might have been supportive to your face, but in private, even though I wanted to be supportive, if you were winning, it made me feel insecure and jealous or threatened. Look, I made every mistake. that you could make in friendship. But I didn't know what it takes to truly create a great friendship, or more importantly, how to be a good friend. Because I didn't know a simple fact back then.

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And there is no doubt in my mind, when you take everything you just learned that we spoke about today, you will create a better life because you're gonna create incredible friendships and that's gonna make your life better. Alrighty, I'm gonna talk to you in a few days because I'm gonna be waiting for you in the very next episode, the second you hit play. And I'll see you there.

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Wow, amazing.

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Oh, we are poetry people. All right, let's go to the open. You know, it works to put those notes on the door, I'm realizing. Because I put a note on the outside door saying, please go through the kitchen. And then I lock the dogs in the kitchen. So they bark over there. Wait, what was the second thing of this? I'm sorry. Oh, this is where we talk about it was a group sport.

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But there was also this. Hold on a second. Oh, my God. La, la, la, la, la. Okay. What was the last line I just said, you guys? Sorry. I promise you this will not be a Frankenstein edit. I'm going to get into my groove. Oh, great. Okay. Love this. I love this. I love this. I love this. Okay, great. All right, I'm going to go get my fried chicken because I'm breaking my fast.

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You were around people your age all the time. Your entire childhood set up the structures and conditions that made friendship possible. I mean, just think about it. When you went to school, you sat in classrooms with kids your age. On the weekends, you were playing town sports. You were riding the bus. You were constantly around kids who were the same age as you going through the same things.

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Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.

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And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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And just think about it. subjects in school, you have the same schedule during the day, you're celebrating the same milestones, you're reaching 14, 15, 16, you're going to prom, you're going to homecoming, you're graduating.

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All of these things that were happening in your life where you were little, the playdates that your parents set up, the team dinners before the big games, all of these things created this environment where you just expected friendship to happen. You just expected that you'd be around people your age all the time because you were.

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That's why friendship was so easy when you were little because the conditions for it were set. And then when you graduate from high school, what happens? Oh, you typically go on to college or you go into the military. And again, you're now not just with people your age all the time. You're living with them. You're eating with them. You're going through the semesters with them.

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And you're on the same breaks during the summer. You're moving through life together. And so when you're little, not only are the conditions present for you to meet people your age, connect with people doing the same thing, you can relate to everybody because you're going through the same experiences, but you also have something else in common. And what is that? Friendship's a group sport.

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Everybody kind of expects to be invited, right? I mean, why wouldn't you? You're on the same team. You're in the same friend group. Everybody's going to the prom, so there's going to be a pre-prom party. And so your childhood conditioned you because you live near your friends. You ride the bus with your friends. You're seeing your friends all the time to just expect that friendship would be easy.

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And because you are naturally as a kid in all these groups, whether it was a classroom or it was a team or it was a sorority or a fraternity or a dorm room floor, that you would just be expected to things. Because if the group is invited, then of course, if you're part of the group, then you're invited too. And that's why nobody sees the big change coming when your 20s hit.

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Your childhood trained you just like it trained me to expect friendship to be easy. It made you believe to expect that you'd always be invited, that there's always something going on because there's always something going on in college. There's always something going on in high school. There's always something going on in your friend group, right? Right.

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But then something happens and none of us see it coming. And it happens when your 20s hit. And what is it that happens? Well, I call it the great scattering. All of a sudden, everybody graduates from college and boom, they scatter in a million different directions.

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All of these people that you used to see every single day that lived in the same place as you, that were on the same timeline as you, that celebrated the same milestones as you, they move and boom, scatter. Which means the conditions and the structure for the friendships that you enjoyed and loved when you were little, gone. Everybody that you love is moving in different directions.

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They're on different timelines. They're doing different things. They move to different cities.

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And next thing you know, the only thing that is holding together that tight-knit group of people that you lived with during college is some text chain that slowly gets quieter and quieter and quieter because people are naturally focusing on the lives that they're building and wherever they are and the people that are right in front of them. And that's when it hits.

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Right when you get into your 20s is when the great scattering hits and all of a sudden you're like, where did all my friends go? Why am I not invited? Why are people living together over here and I can't find a roommate over there? And then you make a major mistake.

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Because you don't understand that there are conditions and rules around friendship, and those conditions were present when you were a kid and just served up to you and taken care of, you don't realize that friendship just went boom from a group activity to an individual sport.

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And because you don't see it coming, I didn't see this coming, you then grip and you cling and you make it personal and you try to hold on to people and then you think that you need to break up with people. That is not the rules of adult friendship. There is a different way that I want you to approach this.

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But unless you truly embrace what I'm talking about, that friendship changes when you hit 20. You will forever be working against the rules of adult friendship. And you will feel like it is so hard to make friends as an adult. And I'm going to teach you today that there are great scatterings that happen throughout your life. Because when you hit 20, that's just the first time that it happens.

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See, when you hit your 20s, absolutely everything about friendship changes, and nobody sees it coming. I didn't. So today, I'm going to walk you through very eye-opening research that I've done and then apply to my own life in the area of friendship. It's life-altering. It's groundbreaking. You're going to love this. See, I now know the rules of adult friendship.

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You move to that new city. You're all excited. It might be your dream city and your dream job. Or maybe you're going off to medical school or graduate school and you're so excited to be there. But then boom. You get there and you don't have any friends. And so now you're going to be in it again.

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And it's going to happen again in your 30s when all of a sudden the friend group that you had in the city, they start getting engaged and moving in with their partners. And then they might be buying a house or having a family and moving to the burbs and boom. they scatter again. And it's going to happen again when you hit your 40s or your 50s.

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Maybe you go through a divorce, you change jobs, or heaven forbid, you're experiencing some tragedy or massive loss in your life and it's just consuming you. Anytime there is a life change, anytime your life changes, there are these mini scatterings that happen. And even my father,

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When I asked him, where do you think you and mom might want to go if you think about moving to some sort of awesome retirement community? And he says, well, our friends are dying. That's a great scattering again, which means you have to be reminded that great friendships are ahead of you.

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And if you understand the three rules of adult friendship and you embrace the truth of what I'm telling you, which is friendship is not a group sport. Friendship is an individual sport and you have the ability to create fantastic friends wherever you go. If you embrace this truth of what I'm telling you, you can change your relationship to friendship.

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You can create these extraordinary friendships in the future and that loneliness that you feel and that sense that you have no friends or that you don't know where to start. That is going to disappear because I'm going to teach you step by step by step exactly what you need to know, exactly what the rules are that nobody's told you.

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And then you are going to have the roadmap to just starting to create fabulous friends. And one more thing I want to say before I teach you these three pillars of adult friendship. And once you see these, you're going to be like, oh my gosh, why didn't I know this sooner? I just want to talk a little bit about loneliness because it's a very real thing.

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But what I've come to realize, and I think you're going to find this is going to lift a big weight inside you, is that the only reason why the loneliness is there is because just like me, you've probably never heard of the Great Scattering. You didn't know that friendship changed from a group sport to an individual sport.

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And when you don't know that and you don't understand the pillars of adult friendship and the rules that you need to follow that I'm going to teach you today, you start to make it personal. You think you're the only one that doesn't have any friends. You think that your friends have left you. when actually they're just living their lives. They haven't gone anywhere. They're still there.

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You start to grip tighter, which only makes your friendships feel more strained. And so I want you to know something. The reason why the loneliness is there, the reason why friendship feels so hard, which it does for everybody, is because you simply don't see the bigger picture, and neither did I.

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And so this is going to be liberating and eye-opening, and it's going to dissolve all of that conflict and tension and the kind of loneliness and sadness that you feel. You can do something about this, and the first step is seeing the bigger picture. So we've covered the great scattering, which is just the fact that when you hit 20, the conditions for friendship when you were a kid don't

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I understand and own the mistakes that I made. And as you listen today and you think about what I'm sharing with you, you're probably going to realize these are some of the same mistakes that you're making too, and you don't even know it. I didn't know it. So if you're feeling lonely, if you feel like you never see your friends, if you're wondering, where did all my friends go?

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Boom, gone. Everybody scatters. And from this point forward, for the rest of your life, now that you know this, you also know that people are going to be scattering all the time, which is why you have to be more flexible. And you also have to stop making it personal. It's not you. It's all of us.

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And we're going to talk about these three universal pillars that I discovered in researching friendship because I felt like I had no friends and I wanted to do something about it. And these three pillars are so awesome because it makes you realize, wait a minute. I see it very clearly now, and now I know what to do. So let's talk about the three pillars. The pillars are very simple.

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From the headlines to global politics to what's happening at the local school board to what your mother's mood is to the stress that your kids are feeling.

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Right. And the second part of the theory, which is let me, is actually the more important part. Yes. And the reason why is because, first of all, you have to say let them. Because you can't take control of your own life until you stop trying to control everybody else and everything around you. And so let them is when you release control. Oh my goodness, it's so freeing. Yes. Yes.

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And then you have to say, let me. Because let me is where you cue yourself. Yes. In any moment. Yes. Whether you're upset about the election. Yes. Or somebody just said, I don't love you and I'm leaving. Yep. Or you got a terrible health diagnosis. Yes.

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or your kid is struggling, it's where you say, let me remind myself, I always have power because I can always choose what I'm going to think about this. And what a beautiful thing that is. And I get to choose what I'm going to do or what I'm not going to do. And this is where you remind yourself that you do get to choose if you stay in a relationship.

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You do get to choose if you're going to offer support or not.

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And your job is not going anywhere. It doesn't make you feel good. But a lot of people feel I have to stay there because I need them. Obviously, I need the money. Of course you do. But do you know how many jobs are on the planet? And if you actually are staying in a job hoping it gets better, who has the power? your boss and the people that you work for. So you gotta let them reveal who they are.

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You gotta let them reveal whether or not they value you and how they're gonna treat you. And then you gotta say, let me. Let me choose if I'm gonna stay in this situation. Let me remind myself that I am capable of doing the work to go out and get a different job.

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Let me remind myself that it is my responsibility to create a life that makes me happy, which means if I'm not happy in this job, don't you dare stay in it and give the power to them. Take the power back. Let me get my rear end out there and go find a job.

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I'm so excited that you're here with me today.

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Well, and here's why you have to. Because I want to remind you, That if you want a better life and if you want to tap into your potential and if you want better relationships, you need the time and energy that you're wasting on things you can't control.

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And you need the energy that is being drained by all these things that you are allowing to stress you out. You need that energy and time to actually do the work. to advance your own goals and your own health and your own relationships. And so instead of giving your time and energy to all this other stuff, the more you say let them, the more you're actually honoring your time and energy.

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It is the ultimate boundary. And I want to explain something, Oprah, about the power that you give to somebody else's opinion, okay?

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So as you're spending time together with me and Oprah right now, I want you to just think about your favorite social media platform. And I want you to think about the moment where you're about to create a post. And so you pick a photo and then you're like, I don't really like that photo.

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And then you pick another photo and then you're thinking about the filters and then you go to start to write the caption. And then you're like, here's an emoji or should I write that? Is that a little bit too much for who? I want you to stop and consider that that entire time, who are you giving power to?

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You are actually giving power to what another human being is potentially going to think about what you're about to do. Now, you will never be able to control or guarantee what another person thinks about you because the average person has 70,000 thoughts a day and you can't even control half of the ones that pop into your mind.

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So what on earth makes you think you could crawl up in someone else's head with your social media post and guarantee that they're not going to unfollow you or they're not going to roll their eyes or whatever? And I'm telling you this because it's something you can relate to. And I need to remind you, your social media is for you. That's for your self-expression.

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That is for you to be able to put out into the world your art, the things you care about. And how sad is it that in that moment you are giving power to another person's opinion? Because you're putting out what you think they will like instead of what you like. Correct. And if you look at all of the draft posts, because everybody has hundreds of them, that is a graveyard of all of your potential.

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And the reason why you didn't post those things is because you stressed yourself out so much, giving power to somebody else's opinion, that you exhausted yourself and you didn't do it.

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That's why we're all here. And you will never do it. if you are constantly afraid of what people are going to think. And so here's how I want you to use the let them theory. Just say, let them think a negative thought. Let them. Because that's what you're scared of. I mean, actually say... Absolutely.

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Let them think a negative thought. Because once you're released from that fear, and then you say, let me live my life in a way that makes me proud, a funny thing happens. You don't actually think about what other people think when you're proud of yourself. Because you know the truth.

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Oprah, I learned everything the hard way. I think that is my lot in life, to just dig a hole or fall in one. And just have to figure it out. And I think I've been learning that all along. I still, I use it every day. I mean, I'm proud of myself and I still catch myself stopping and thinking.

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And let's talk about human nature.

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So ultimately what the let them theory is about is control. And every human being has a fundamental hardwired need to be in control of their lives, themselves, their decisions, their environment. Because when we are in control of our jobs and what we're thinking, we feel safe. Now here's the problem.

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When you feel stuck or dissatisfied in your life, it's a signal.

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If you do something that makes me upset or worries me or hurts me, now I'm going to need to control you, Oprah, so that I can feel safe. But here's the problem. You have the same need to control yourself that I have in me.

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So when I step in and I think that I know best or I think that you should do something or I want to change you, what's going to happen is I'm going to push against your hardwired need to be in control of yourself. Okay. And so you will push back. And what I want, this changed my marriage. It changed my parenting. It changed my relationship with how I am at work.

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The let them theory is going to make space for change to happen because people need to feel like changing is their idea. People only change, Oprah, when they are ready to do the work to change.

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Yes. And we make the mistake of thinking that we can push somebody else to do it. And when you push against somebody else, especially somebody that is struggling, you know, I often think about the fact that the hardest working kid in a classroom is not the one getting the A's. It's the kid who's failing. Because they know that they're not doing well. And they can do well if they can.

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And if they're not doing well, it's because they're at a moment in their life where they can't. They're missing skills. They're missing hope. They're missing support. And so the kid that's struggling or the adult that's struggling, they're in deep, active conflict within themselves. A human being knows, Oprah, when they're not reaching their potential. Yes, don't we all? Yes.

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And so they're already putting so much pressure on themselves because they know that they're not studying and they're not excelling. And we do this with our health. Like, I think the people that work the hardest at the health are the people that are struggling with it.

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And we don't stop and think about that. We actually come in with judgment and opinions and suggestions like, oh, you know, if you kind of cut calories and go for a walk, you might lose some weight. Oh, thanks, Einstein. Like, I didn't think about that. That's right.

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And so when somebody pushes you, even with the best of intentions, what happens is it creates more pressure. And so you didn't actually create motivation. Right. You created resistance. Resentment and resistance.

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Yes. Yes. And you also created distance in your relationship. And so if you really want people in your life to excel.

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Yes. You have to say, let them. Because what it does is it creates for the first time space for the person to feel accepted instead of judged. It creates space for them to really learn from life. And it creates space with your support for somebody to tap into their own God-given potential to change.

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And what I've also realized is that every time I have stepped in and tried to pressure one of my kids to study harder or do this or do the other thing, you know what I'm actually doing? I'm actually saying to them, I don't think you're capable of this without me.

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When you step in and try to do it for somebody else, and you don't just let somebody face the natural consequences of their decisions, when you keep rescuing somebody or making excuses for them, what you're saying is, I don't believe you're actually capable of doing this on your own. I don't believe that you're capable or strong enough to rise into this.

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And I also wanted to be sure to tell you, in case no one else tells you, that I love you and I believe in you.

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It does the exact opposite. And look, it is a good thing to worry about people. It's a great thing to see the potential in somebody. It is an act of love to want somebody to be healthy and vibrant and thriving. That's not the issue. The issue and the problems that I have created for 54 years of my life, Oprah, is that I was going about it the wrong way. Yeah.

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I didn't have the let them theory.

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I had no idea how human beings work. See, you have to push yourself in order to make change happen. But if you push other people, you actually stop it from happening.

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So I, this was at a moment in my life where my husband and I were struggling and a lot of people were kind of taking off in their careers, Oprah. And I remember Pulling up to a friend's house, and she had just finished a renovation. Beautiful house. It was the kind of house that I'd always dreamt of. I wanted so desperately to be a good friend.

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And to be happy for her.

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And deep in my heart, she deserves this, and I want this for her. But I was so jealous. I was so upset because I was in a place in my life where I wanted these things and I didn't have them. And I was looking at life the wrong way. See, I used to think that if somebody else was winning or got what I wanted, it means I'll never have it.

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I can in this moment because I'm sitting across from you. Yeah. And I have been so in the dirt.

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I used to look at other people and I would see them as competitors in the game of life. That if somebody else had a podcast, oh, there's too many, I'm too late, you know, can't do it. Yeah. And here's the thing that I learned with the Let Them Theory. Other people never block your way. Only you can do that.

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Wow, that is so true. Other people lead the way. Yes. If you allow them to. See, other people show you what's possible. And if you let them be successful and you let them be happy and you let them get in great shape and you let them make a lot of money, they're going to reveal a formula. That's right.

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And if you're so busy like I was, giving power to other people's success, and then- You're preaching here today, Mel. You're preaching here today. You are capable of creating anything because success, love, happiness, money, friendship, these things are in limitless supply. Limitless. Yeah. And what we get wrong about the game of life is you're not playing against other people.

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You're playing with them. That's right. And you can learn how to be a better player from other people. But if you're so busy giving power to other people's accomplishments and then using that as an example for why it's never going to happen to you, you're going to miss the fundamental law about life, which is it's there for everybody's creation.

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And taken it one day at a time. Yeah, I understand that. And one conversation at a time that when you are focused on just what you can do in this moment or what you can do to get through the day or what you can do to make... Things are a little bit better for yourself, for the people that you care about or strangers that you bump into. Okay, so let me say this.

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But I couldn't because I didn't have a tool. I couldn't because I didn't know how to stop the flood of jealousy and insecurity. Because, you know, I take the tour of my friend's house and I see the queen bunk beds. And now I know why all the kids are at their house and not at my house. And I feel like a gigantic loser. And I'm not evolved. I'm just soaking in my jealousy.

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And so what I do is I get in the car and my poor husband, Chris, sits down and I just aim it at him as if it's his fault.

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because we don't know what to do when we feel so overwhelmed with like doubt and shame and upset and so we tend to just act out instead of seeing what's possible how do you not i mean even if you say let them there is a part of you that still compares yourself to that though yeah that's not that's not a problem comparison's natural yeah it's what you do with the comparison that matters

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Absolutely. So if you use comparison the way that I did in that story and for most of my life, most of my life, I would see somebody doing something or they had achieved something I wanted and I was like, well, there you go. Never going to happen for me. So I was using it to torture myself. I was using the example of somebody else's life as a way to tell me that my dreams are not going to happen.

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Instead of?

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Yes. Yes. Yes. And the friends, by the way, that really upset you are super important because you can look at people that you admire. Yes. And you can look at people that have all these amazing things as you're manifesting. But a lot of the time they don't galvanize this pain inside of you to actually do something about it.

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When it's a friend and you know there's no secret sauce or trust fund or anything that gave them a special advantage and they just work their tail off and you start getting upset about that, the reason why you're upset is you're not upset at your friend. You're upset at yourself because you gave up on yourself. And that anger is important because it is a signal from your body that I want that.

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See, I don't get jealous of things I don't want. Do you want to know what jealousy is? Jealousy is your blocked desire and dreams. Jealousy rises up because somebody has something that is trapped in your soul.

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And you've been so busy giving your power away to stupid things and other people and managing all this stuff that's out of your control that you're draining the time and energy that you could be using to slowly chip away at those things. Jealousy is like, knock, knock, knock, pay attention. You're supposed to have a house like this, dummy.

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Stop stressing about all this stuff that you shouldn't be worried about and remind yourself it's time to get to work.

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The hardest thing about being a mom of, you know, 25, 23, 19 is, and even just kind of looking at people that write in, is your refusal to see somebody's behavior as the truth. Don't listen to what somebody says. Listen to what they show you. Correct. Behavior reveals who someone is. and where you stand in their life.

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Yes, but here's the mistake that I made forever, and here's the mistake we all make. Instead of being in a relationship with the reality, you are up in your head explaining away behavior, which means you are in a fantasy.

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You know, if you are fooling around with somebody and they slink out like a cat in the morning and you're then convincing yourself that they care about you, they're not the problem. You are. Because you refuse to see the behavior as what it is, which is they don't care about you. They're not interested in a commitment. And you cannot admit that to yourself. Correct.

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And the more time you spend with somebody who has no interest in what you want in life, the more you are keeping yourself in a prison and robbing you from creating what you actually deserve.

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Yes. Well... You get to choose, Oprah. Yeah. You get to choose. Because if we're talking about a breakup, right? We're talking about that somebody has said, I don't love you, and they've left, right? The relationship is over.

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Oh, yes, because it's true. They may not have said the words, but they have quit. Yes. So you have to keep going. Let them. Let them walk out the door. Let them treat me in a way that is actually not that attractive. It's kind of a turnoff. Let them confuse me. Because there actually isn't anything confusing about people's behavior.

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It's your inability to accept it at face value that is confusing you. Then you say, let me, let me, because you always get to choose. If this is your biggest hopes and dreams to be with somebody that gaslights you and doesn't make you a priority, then choose it. And the only way that you know that you can powerfully choose it is if you can stop complaining about it.

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And so keep coming back to the let me part. Let me remind myself that I can always think whatever I want about this. And let me remind myself that I can stay. I can leave. I can decide what I put time into. I can decide what I don't put time into.

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Yes. So my therapist is the smartest woman I've ever met, Ann Davin. And she said, Mel, most adults are just eight-year-olds in big bodies.

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And the reason why that's true is being able to act like a mature adult and manage your emotions and express yourself in a responsible way. It's a skill and you have to learn it. And if you were not surrounded by adults that knew how to do that, then you have not been taught how to do that.

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And here's what I love about this. Because I have a deep concern, as I know you do, of the rise in estrangement. I have a deep concern about the labeling of behavior and the labeling of people and the rise of what I see of very immature behavior of just ghosting or cutting people out without even an explanation.

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And what I love about the let them theory is that this is not a license to just cut off communication and shrug your shoulders and let them. It's not supposed to make you lonely. And it's also not because I get a lot of pushback from people going, well, I'm just supposed to let them be rude. I'm just supposed to let them do this and I'm going to be a doormat. No, right now you are a doormat.

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because you're tolerating the behavior. This isn't about tolerating any kind of abuse or any kind of awful behavior. This is about seeing it for what it is. This is about saying, let them, let them be who they are. And let me see this with very clear eyes because I know there is no way I can change who this person is. And if somebody is treating you poorly, they're already doing it.

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And when you say let them, you for the first time see with clear eyes exactly who you're dealing with. And then you got to say the let me part, because if you recognize you're never going to change this person because somebody- So saying let them allows you to stop lying to yourself. Yes. Yes. Yes.

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And the eight year old in a big body creates something very important because a lot of us have family members that have very challenging behaviors. And we still... That's a good way of putting it.

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Well, you know, I think family teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes, right? And let them is going to create space. It creates space for people to be who they are. And it creates space for you to decide how much time and energy you want to pour into people who may be very emotionally mature.

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And what I find is that when I view somebody, for example, that might have a very narcissistic personality style, always about them, they fly off the handle. It's very draining to be around them. I'm not scared of them anymore because they don't affect me. And I get to choose how I show up. I get to say, I know exactly who this person is and I'm just going to let them be.

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I'm not going to have any expectation that's going to be any different. but I'm going to remind myself. Let me remind myself it's my energy that matters.

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Thank you for that question. I actually feel like an instrument. for consciousness, for compassion, for people to truly stop making other people a problem. Like you're on the planet right now. with 8 billion human beings, and we're all going through this thing together. And there is such a rise in judgment and bigotry and hate and isolation because we're making other people a problem.

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We're allowing them to stress us out. giving power to their opinions. We're tolerating emotional immaturity with judgment instead of understanding and just having better boundaries. We're paralyzing ourselves because of other people's success. We're trying to change people instead of learning to love and accept them as they are. And you don't have to live like that.

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Your life can be so much more peaceful. You have so much more power and time and energy. And when you stop living your life as if you're against everybody or you know better or you just create this incredible peace within yourself.

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I believe that this is divinely ordered. Yeah. I do. And I often think about, you know, if you're standing in this moment, You can look backwards, Oprah. And everything that has happened to you makes sense. And you can see the path and the turns and the hardships and the lessons and the things you regret and the things that you learn from. And everything has led you to this moment.

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I think it's a superpower to stand in the present moment and actually believe that this moment is leading you somewhere extraordinary. You just don't know when or where it's going to happen.

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And so in moments where I have been deeply afraid or paralyzed with fear or engaging in my own really immature and hurtful behavior, whether it's in friendship or my marriage or screwing up with my kids, because I just didn't know. And that drives a lot of my work. That I didn't know that I had dyslexia and ADHD.

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I didn't know that that was the source of so many of my struggles and why I had such terrible anxiety. I didn't know that you could literally say let them and have instant peace. And everything that has been a problem in my life, I just didn't know the problem that I was dealing with. And if you actually don't know what the problem is, how the hell are you going to solve it? Right.

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And so I often think about how many people out there just don't know that they're pushing against the wrong thing. But the real root of the issue is something so simple. And so for me, when I've been in those moments that I just am like, why am I doing this? And is it ever going to change? And where is this leading? And will I ever, ever meet Oprah Winfrey one of these days? I mean it.

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Like, I kept saying to myself, you're not meant to be there yet.

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you have to stand in this moment because i believe that success comes down to one thing being willing to get out of bed on the days that you don't feel like it that's right and putting one foot in front of the other and slowly chipping away at the things that you care about and trying to be a little bit better of a person and if you can do that and if you can be kind to other people

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And if you can give up your timeline and you can just keep reminding yourself in those dark days that your job is not to give up. Your job is to glow. And the way that you do that, Oprah, is you say, I know that this moment is leading me somewhere. I do. And when you believe that... You keep going.

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You know, Oprah, I have dreamt about the day that I would get to sit down and be with you. And in all of those manifestations and dreams, never in a million years did I think I would be telling you that my life changed at a high school prom. Never in a million years. And we have three children. And so the first two are girls.

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And having gone through the prom with them, I mean, that was like five months of headaches and spray tans and promposals and stress. And when it was finally done, I was like, oh, my gosh, thank goodness that's over. So when our son Oakley was coming to his prom, I thought this is going to be a breeze. And it was actually way worse because he was so noncommittal.

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We didn't even know if he was going to go. Two weeks before. Two days. I thought it was two weeks. Two days before, Oprah.

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Two days before. He's all of a sudden like, I think I'm going to go. And I'm like, we live in the middle of Vermont. Where am I going to get a tux? Oh, and now you want those white tennis shoes? And so it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom. 48 hours of stress, stress, stress. And so we finally...

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get to the point where Chris is like putting his tie on and we're about to run out the door and we're heading to the pre-prom photos. And so we get to the pre-prom photos. We take the photos. And because of the buildup, I'm like already stressed out. Because it's his first prom. Yes. And because I've been a lunatic. I mean, I'm like controlling and I'm trying to find stuff.

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And now I'm trying to micromanage everything. And we get to the prom. We take the photos. Everything's fine. And then out of nowhere, it starts to rain. And by rain, I mean downpour. And so now you got 20 kids in black tie and all of these parents milling about. And now everyone's starting to look around because nobody has umbrellas, nobody has anything.

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And so I turned to Oak and I'm like, hey, where are you guys going for dinner? Because I'm thinking I need to help with the situation. He's like, well, I don't know. And I'm like, wait, you don't have dinner plans? And you got 20 kids? Yes. And then I turn to my husband. They don't have dinner plans? He's like, I guess not. And so now I'm getting all activated over something dumb.

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And I start to look at my phone for reservations for 20 kids. And I can't find anything. And the other parents are milling about. And I'm like, oh, what are you going to do? And he's like, I think we're going to go to the taco stand. Now, keep in mind, this is like something that four kids can fit in. These kids are in black tie. It's pouring rain. And I'm like, what?

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And I don't know what it was, Oprah. But I just was about to go into monster control mode. And my daughter, who was home from college, reaches out, grabs my arm with that sort of like forceful grip and yanks me towards her. And she's like, you're being annoying. Was this Sawyer? This was Kendall. Okay, this was Kendall. This was Kendall. So... I'm like, but, but it's right.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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And she's like, mom, if they want to get wet, let them get wet. But, but, but he's going to ruin his shoes. Mom, if he's going to ruin his shoes, ruin his shoes. But, but, but her dress. Mom, let them. Mom, let them do what they want to do. But they don't want to freshen up. Let them eat a taco stand. Let them get wet. Let them dance all night in wet tuxedos.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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For crying out loud, mom, it's their prom, not yours. Just let them. And there was something about the cascade of let them. let them, let them. That it just hit me. And I thought, Yeah. Let them. Let them. Why am I thinking about his dinner? Why am I not thinking about mine?

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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No, I just felt like my self-release. And the next day, I'm standing at the garden center. And you know how when you're in line and there's like five people in front of you? And it's like beep, beep, beep. And you feel the stress rise up and you start looking around and you feel all agitated.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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And then you start thinking in your head, you know, why aren't they getting any other thing to open up here?

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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And now all of a sudden you think you can run a grocery store or a garden center better than anybody else. And then you're fussing and you're like, let them. And it was like instant peace. And I started to say, let them. Anytime I was in a situation where I was annoyed or stressed out or bothered or hurt or worried or frustrated, and it had this unbelievable impact of having an immediate release.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Yeah. And what I started to notice, full stop, is that I didn't have time and energy because I was turning other people into a major problem in my life. All the time. All the time. I was giving my power to other people, what they were doing, what they were saying, what they were thinking. So if I go back to the grocery store, what's amazing about that story, you're standing in line.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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This is coming to my podcast.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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The stress is coming up. When you start to get all flustered by what other people are doing, you're now trying to control something you can't control. Because you will never be able to control what other people are doing, what they think, what they say. You cannot control how a grocery store is staffed or how fast the line is moving.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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And when you focus on things that you can't control, you miss the single biggest, most amazing thing about life. that you are actually always in control. Because there are three things that are always within your control, Oprah. You can always control what you think. You can always control what you do or don't do. And you can always control what you do in response to the feelings that rise up.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Come on now!

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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So instead of standing there in a line and burning up for 15 minutes over something stupid and then allowing that to stress me out all day and affect the rest of my day, when I say let them, I immediately recognize. That this is something that... I have no power over. Correct.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Correct. Yes. Correct.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Oh my God! Oh, I just wanted to look in your eyes, but first let me just feel your... Oh, my gosh. Look at us. We're here. I have been waiting for this moment, and I am so ready. Really? Oh, this is so much bigger than a conversation.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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I absolutely can. We have spent our entire lives managing, worrying, about other people. We have made it our jobs to make other people happy. We have made it our job to have opinions about the grocery store, about what our kids are doing. And in doing so, you have given all of your power to something you will never be able to control. Absolutely.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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And what I discovered, Oprah, is that the more that I said let them, the more I noticed that I was spending time wishing that people would be different. I was spending time judging the people in my life. I was spending time wanting people to be in different moods. And that is time that I could actually redirect back at myself and focus on what I can. So if they're in a bad mood, let them.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Why is it your job to manage somebody else's mood? Why? Why? And better yet, why should somebody else's mood at work, at home, wherever, impact your mood?

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Because you allow it. And this is the huge thing in this. What is happening around you Does not have to happen to you. Right. What other people are doing. Yes, you are going to feel something. You're going to have an opinion. You will respond. This is human nature. But what you do in response to what somebody else is doing is where your power is.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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This is how you take responsibility for your life, Oprah. And let's look at the word responsibility. It is the ability to respond. And we forget when we get ourselves so stressed out because the grocery line isn't moving the way that you think it should moving. And now you're draining your life force over something so stupid. And then you wonder, why are you so tired? Why are you so overwhelmed?

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Why are you last on your list? It's because you allow death by a thousand cuts. You allow people's moods and inconsiderate strangers and the headlines and the news to be something that impacts you. There's a different way to live. You just say, let them. Let them. Because what you're doing, and this is the really important part,

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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is you are recognizing that this is not within my control, therefore it is not worth my time and energy. And if you respect yourself and if you love yourself, you will focus your time and energy on what is within your control. And that becomes let me. Yes. Yes. Let them and then let me. Yes. So there's two parts to the theory.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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You know, I've had a lot of low moments. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a lot of my life that I have not been present for. And I'm not going to miss this. Thank you. Thank you for recognizing me.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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The first one everybody loves because when you say let them, you're going to feel superior to everybody else. That's right.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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You know, I have never been able to let anything go. That probably doesn't surprise anybody. I just feel like if somebody were to tell me, Mel, just let it go. You know, just let it go. Your mom's disappointed. Just let it go. But it feels like I'm defeated. It feels like I have no choice.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

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Yes. Yes. I like to feel the peace of surrender, but I didn't know how to access it. And I think one of the things that I really strive to do is that if something's complicated or it's too intellectual— I can't remember it or I can't apply it.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You're not going to like this. And this is for every generation. Because what makes anxiety worse are lifestyle decisions. When you look at your phone for six hours a day, which is what the research says the average person does, you're disconnected from self. And you're connected to a device that is designed based on the algorithms to give you intermittent dopamine rewards.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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One of the reasons why most people scroll constantly, and you've been talking a lot about this, Oprah, is that you don't see something great all the time. So you're looking for that hit, that fix, that thing. Yes. And because it's intermittent, it keeps you on it looking for the next thing.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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So number one, you have to get off your phone because you're disconnected from self when you're on your phone. Number two, most people stay inside all day. One way to connect to self and connect to power is get outside and take a walk. The research is very clear that a 10 minute walk without your phone, without listening to something actually connects you back to yourself.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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It opens up new ways of thinking. Anybody that feels anxious, if you take a walk for 10 minutes outside, you will actually have your mind stop racing. There's a concept called forward ambulation, which is the motion of things passing that opens up your mind. And so sleep, have you been getting sleep? Are you drinking? Because the number one symptom of a hangover is actually anxiety in the morning.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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We will unpack what anxiety actually is. All anxiety is separation anxiety.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Wow. Because as you're processing alcohol... over the night and processing that, your blood sugar drops. And that combined with the rise of the cortisol stress hormone in the morning creates the anxiety that is part of a hangover.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Well, what's exciting about this is if you're somebody who is feeling anxious because, or the alarm in your body is ringing a lot, ask yourself, am I getting enough sleep? Do I get outside once a day? Am I off my phone? Am I cutting back on the drinking? I see people outside, they're literally, they can't cross the street. They're on the phones crossing the street.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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But I'm saying this not to be like a pain. I'm saying this because there are metabolic and lifestyle choices that actually spike your anxiety. And if you are truly interested in reconnecting with yourself and getting out of your head and flipping from this fight or flight nervous system into the parasympathetic nervous system, which is your calm nervous system, you have power.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And so if you're anxious about something that you can identify, that means that you're actually functioning in a healthy way because you're having a normal stress response to being at a very competitive college. It's normal to feel stressed out. You should. You have a lot of work.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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But if it's really impacting your life over and over and over again, you need to start to look at your lifestyle choices Because those are actually making the anxiety worse because they keep you up in your head and they keep you disconnected from the things in your life that actually ground you.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I am a woman who has struggled profoundly with anxiety, and because I didn't get control of it, I actually made my daughter's anxiety worse.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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One thing I wanted to say about medication is that there is a lot of stigma around taking it. And here's how I look at it. You wouldn't feel bad about taking insulin if you were diabetic.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You'd be grateful to have it. Correct. Withholding a medication that can help you get out of a hole or serve as a bridge to healing, withholding that from yourself is a form of self-harm. Powerful. And so I'm proud of you for showing up and talking about it. And I'm proud of you for recognizing that this is a moment in your life where you need the support of that.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And by just having somebody show up and talk about it and normalize it, it does help people understand.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And the decision that changed my life was the decision to get out of bed that morning.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Well, this is a tough one because I really screwed this up. As a mother, I take full responsibility for making my child's anxiety a hundred times worse. A hundred times worse. The single best thing you could do for your daughter is to get control of and heal your anxiety.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because if you are somebody who is anxious, and let's break apart what is the definition of anxiety, I call it an alarm, thanks to Dr. Russell Kennedy, but it is really a moment where you feel uncertain, And then you doubt your capability to handle it. That's all that it is. And so I'm not a therapist. I'm not a medical doctor. I am a woman who has struggled profoundly with anxiety.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And because I didn't get control of it, I actually made my daughter's anxiety worse. She would come down because she didn't want to stay in her bedroom at night. And she would then climb in bed with me. And it just kept happening and happening and happening because she would put up a fuss and then that would trigger my anxiety and my alarm system and I didn't know how to handle it.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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So she slept on the floor of my bedroom for almost a year. And here's the thing. Do you want to know what I taught my daughter by allowing her to do that? I taught her you're not capable of facing something that's difficult. That's what you say and let them. Yes. And so here's what I want you to do.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I am so happy that you're getting her help, but I want you to really double down on the fact that you are capable. You, yes, you are capable. You are capable of facing moments in your life that feel difficult. You are capable of facing things that scare you. And when you do that... Not only are you capable, you have. Correct. You have done it. You have done it. You have done it.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And how did it start showing up for you? Oh, Oprah, I think I came out of the womb as a worried and anxious child. Like I had a nervous stomach. I couldn't go to sleep over camp. And for college and law school, I just was in a chronic state of feeling stressed out. I was not in my body a lot of the time. And we're gonna talk a lot about what anxiety is and what it isn't. And I didn't understand

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And so I don't want you to tell her it's your superpower. I want you to go deep into healing and turning this alarm off and reminding yourself in every moment, you are capable. I have been capable. I can quiet this. I can be the woman in this lineage that actually heals this. And I can do this because I'm not going to allow my daughters to learn this as a coping strategy in moments of uncertainty.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And so I want you to take an approach that, look, I screwed this up. That's why I'm trying to save you from like doing this. I really did. Like she got to the point where she didn't want to go to school. She got to the point where I couldn't leave and go anywhere. She had to be near me because I taught her through me not putting my arm around her. And that's how I want you to think about this.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Put your arm around her and walk with her and say, I know this is scary. I know this feels uncomfortable and I'm going to be by your side, but you are capable of facing this, honey. And the calmer you are, the more she's going to believe it. What's coming up for you right now?

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Can I make another suggestion? This is really important. Have you ever been tested for ADHD? Yes, I'm very ADHD. Okay, so this is why I'm going to say something. There is an entire lost generation of women, Oprah, that have been diagnosed with anxiety in their teens and their 20s, and the underlying problem was dyslexia, dysgraphia, or ADHD. And she has auditory processing disorder.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Okay, so here's what I want you to understand. You have a child who is facing a lot of stress. And the response to auditory disorders and neurodivergent issues, the response of feeling an alarm means she's mentally well. I'm serious about this. Like we gotta stop looking at somebody's nerves as a sign that something's wrong.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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If you're in a stressful situation because you sit in a classroom and it's hard for you to focus, it means you're mentally well. And so you're doing an incredible job as a mom because you're talking to the professionals and you are getting her the support that she deserves. And that's fantastic.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And what you have an opportunity to do is to also build the resilience in her by reminding her that this stress is going to keep coming up, honey, because this is a thing that we're going to work on together, but you're capable.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I would tell her your story. And I would tell her that you understand how difficult this is. Right. And that you have learned to face things that are very difficult and that you have become very strong and that, you know, she is strong.

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And that you're going to be there every step of the way, but the leading psychologist, Dr. Luana Marquez at Harvard Medical School, the number one symptom when somebody starts really struggling in the way that you're talking about, particularly children, is avoidance.

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Avoidance.

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what anxiety was in college and law school. Okay. And so you start to get afraid of it.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Right, right. And that's the same thing. It's avoidance. You're avoiding having to go through this with her. I want you to understand you have the ability to rise. You have the ability in these moments... to really recognize, okay, you know, we've got the stress response happening and I'm going to remind my daughter she is capable and we can rise together through this.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And you're going to tell her your story simply to say, I know how difficult this is, You're not going to add any more drama on it. And you're going to say, and I also know that you're stronger than you feel right now.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And I'm going to be there with you. And I also know that you can do this. And when you display that calmness, she is going to feel that and believe it. And it's going to take time. Like you have to give yourself so much grace, but you can do this.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And then you dread it. And then it gets worse. Okay. You said we're going to talk about what is it and what isn't it. So anxiety is just an alarm system in your body. That's all that it is. Anxiety rises. It's just like stress. So if you have something stressful going on at work today, you're going to feel, what would you feel if you had a stressful day at work?

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So if you're waking up in the morning and the first thing you experience is anxiety, it is a sign of stored trauma.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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So there's a difference between being informed and inundated. And if there's something really important happening in the world, people will be talking about it. So you do not need to be checking the news. That is the truth.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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No, but I mean it. Watching Gail is one thing. Yeah. Reading the headlines on your phone is a totally different game.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because those headlines are written as a way to bait you to stay online more. Why? That's right. Because they make money when you stay online.

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Yes. And also, the more you stay online, the more money platforms make. So they're incented to write scary headlines because it entices you to click because of something called the curiosity gap. So it is critical that you understand that the phone and the internet is a tool, but you've become the tool. And if you don't have boundaries with your phone, and I'm only going to give you one of them.

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Uh-huh. Yeah. And that's a sign that you're mentally well.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because most people won't listen to this anyway. And then they're going to complain about how stressed out and overwhelmed they are. The number one tool is this. Don't you ever, ever, ever sleep with your phone. You have to put your phone in the bathroom. And the reason is simple.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I'm not even going to talk about all the studies about how the phone in the room simply next to you interrupts your sleep. I'm going to talk about something that happens when you wake up. So the phone's next to you, right? And you're lying in bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, the alarm goes off. And you pick up the phone. And here you are. Yeah. You aren't even vertical yet.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because you have a lot of things going on. Right. And that stress is basically the same thing as anxiety. Anxiety is what happens when your body goes from a calm resting state. Yeah. into a tense and on edge fight or flight state. And there's actually a lot of medical research about this. You go from this part of your brain, which is the prefrontal cortex, to the amygdala part of the brain.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And you have just allowed the world news and a thousand strangers on Instagram to walk into your bedroom. You're checking emails and text messages and you wonder why you're stressed out and exhausted. You're not even out of bed and you have put all this other stuff in your brain, which means you are now the last thing on the list.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And if you lay there and start scrolling and it activates your stress response... It absolutely takes longer to get out of bed. Correct. And anxiety is higher for people in the morning, Oprah. And there are scientific reasons why this is true. And by the way, I also want to share something because I think it's important to know that if you grew up in a traumatic household...

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Or you experienced abuse, poverty, bigotry, racism when you were little. You had a chaotic experience. You would wake up in the house and you didn't know what was going to happen.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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As you know, because of the work that you've done with Dr. Bruce Perry, this is stored trauma. So if you're waking up in the morning and the first thing you experience is anxiety, it is a sign of stored trauma. That's why a lot of people have anxiety first thing in the morning.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Yes. Yes. And laying in bed and staring at the ceiling, this was my rock bottom moment. When I was 41 years old, my husband and I found ourselves $800,000 in debt. And I lost my job. We had three kids under the age of 10 and I could not get out of bed. the alarm would ring and it was like the anxiety was a gravity blanket.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I would lay there like a human pot roast marinating in my problems, my fears, like how are we going to get out of this? And I'd start thinking about it. Meaning I'm ruminating now.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And so one night I got this idea. It's divine intervention. I was giving myself a pep talk. I don't know if you've ever gotten to a point in your life where things are really so low you're talking to yourself out loud. Yes. I mean, that's a low moment. That is. And I'm like, that's it, Mel. It's alarm warning, woman. It's a new you. You know, you got to stop drinking so much.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You got to stop screaming at your husband. You got to call your parents. You got to get a job. You got to get these kids on the bus. And by God, woman, when that alarm rings, you have got to get out of bed. You cannot hit that snooze button six times. And at that moment, a rocket ship launched across the television screen. And I was like, it's a sign from God.

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When that alarm rings, you're going to move so fast, you're not going to be in that bed when that anxiety hits. And that very next morning, it was a Tuesday in February in 2008, outside of Boston, Massachusetts. Your one decision from a different life. And the decision that changed my life was the decision to get out of bed that morning.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And there is this moment of hesitation. It's this window of time, Oprah, where you have this thought, right? Where you know what you should or could do. And you stop and you think about whether or not you want to. And it's in this five-second window of thinking, you go up. Yeah. About what you want to do and whether or not you feel like doing it.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I don't want to. How's this going to help? This is where anxiety comes in. This is where all the stress comes. This is where procrastination comes in. And so that morning... I remembered the rocket launch, but I stopped and I started to think.

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Amygdala, yeah. Turning on the stress response. And it was helpful for me to learn that anxiety is really switching from this part to this part of the brain in response to something that's going on. The problem with anxiety is that it starts to rise up in situations where you don't really know why you're anxious. It's like the alarm is going and you don't know how to turn it off.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And this moment of hesitation opens up and I felt myself reaching for the snooze button like I had done so many mornings because I was in this anxiety cycle, which makes you avoid things. It makes you run away from things.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Oh, it was way before. This is what led to it.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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So I literally... felt myself going, how's this going to help? I'm $800,000 in debt. I don't feel like getting up. I'm so anxious. And then I went five, four, three, two, one, and I stood up. And something interesting happened. When you move, you move from here to here.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You stop thinking and you do.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And the action overrides the swirling thoughts and sensation and reconnects you with your power. And that was the beginning of an entirely new life. It was how I started to cure my anxiety and heal it and stop responding to uncertainty by doubting my capacity and capability to deal with it. And anybody can develop this skill.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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where you find yourself in a moment where you hesitate and you start to doubt yourself and you start to feel anxious and you just go five, four, three, two, one, and you push through it and you take the next right step. And that first step is counting backwards. And what I know now, because this is spread around the world, it is used in clinical settings. It's incredible for OCD and PTSD.

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Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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let's go let's go and the action proves that you are the action quiets the mind the action aligns the emotion in your body with forward momentum and just like a domino that first one that tips can tip the second one but those two then can tip something 10 times its size and move you in a different direction correct absolutely And so I counted five, four, three, two, one all day long, every day.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And it became a tool to help me push through those moments of anxiety. Avoid procrastination. Correct. Yes. Correct. And that's what turned my life around.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Thank you.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Well, why does it do that? One of the main reasons why it does it, at least for me, is I didn't understand it. And if you don't know what anxiety is, you start to become afraid of it because you're on edge all the time. You become anxious about the anxiety. Correct. And so I want you to start to do one thing. I want you to never say, I have anxiety. Ever. Okay.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because then you become defined by it. Okay. I want you to say either I feel anxious or I feel alarmed because... Of whatever the situation is. Correct.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because what happens with anxiety, Oprah, is that you have a moment where you feel a little uncertain about something, whether it's work or a relationship or a conversation or a day ahead or the problems that you're facing. And the uncertainty isn't the problem. And the alarm going off because there is uncertainty isn't the problem.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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The problem is that you doubt your capacity and capability to deal with it. Exactly. Thank you for that clarification. And wait to hear this. Yeah. All anxiety, Oprah, is separation anxiety. This comes from Dr. Russell Kennedy, who has a PhD and an MD and specializes in anxiety. All anxiety is separation anxiety.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because what we do, and this is the mistake I made for decades, is I would feel on edge about something and then I'd start going, I'm anxious, I'm anxious. And then I'd go up here, neck up. And when you go neck up, up into your thoughts, you start to think about how you're feeling and the alarm gets worked. Yeah, one begets the other, begets, begets, begets.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Now here's where the separation part comes in. What do you separate from? Yeah, what? Yourself, your power, and source. Where is your power, yourself, and source located? Not up here, down here. The way that you actually deal with anxiety, and I didn't know this for 35, 40 years, is you don't go up here. You actually drop into your body.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And your body has a on-off switch that can turn off the alarm of anxiety. It's called the vagus nerve. I didn't know any of this. God, I wish I'd known this. I'm so excited for the person that's here with us right now learning all this. Anybody can turn the switch on or off. The vagus nerve runs from your seat through every organ up through your vocal cords to the top of your head.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And if you know how to tone the vagus nerve, you can press your hand on your heart. You can breathe certain ways. It goes through your vocal cords. It's very hard to feel anxious in church when you're singing a hymn. Why? Because as you're singing, it stimulates the vagus nerve, which acts like a tuning fork to tune to your body that you're actually okay.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And as you're singing, you're not up here, you're dropping into here and you connect back with your power and with source and with God and with your capability to face anything in life.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Correct. And most of us live up here and they're like, what's going on? And just like an alarm going off in a house, screaming alarm, alarm, alarm doesn't turn it off. Running out of the house doesn't turn it off. Taking a moment and finding the switch and switching it off turns it off. And we're going to talk today about how you can do that in very, very simple ways and why it's important.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And when you do that, you stay connected to your capability to face anything.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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So it's a great question because I don't want you to let go of your edge. Yeah. And here's the thing that I need you to understand though. So anxiety, when the alarm goes off, where like, let's say you have a huge presentation, of course you're going to feel anxious.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And the purpose of anxiety when you flip into that sort of fight or flight is to flood your body with all kinds of different neurochemicals to get your energy up and to get your heart going so that you can pay attention. But if it sticks around, here's the problem.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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The problem is that when you're in a state where you're sort of on edge and your nerves are starting to get to you and you go up in your head, you escalate it. And then when your brain switches modes, guess what? You lose your ability to think strategically. The reason why people... flub it when they're giving a presentation and you're like, oh, I'm so nervous, I'm nervous, I'm nervous.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And now you're up in your head and you're now getting yourself so worked up is not because you can't give a presentation. It's because you got yourself worked up and now you forgot everything that you prepared because you're impacting your brain function. And so I think that it is a mistake to think that anxiety gives you an edge. Because your body will always get a little adrenaline.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You'll always come online and be more engaged when you got to do something that you care about. What I want you to understand is in those moments, you're gonna do something called high-fiving your heart. You're gonna just put your hand right in the center of your chest. I want you to do this with me right now. Okay, you ready? And I want you to press so that you can feel it in there.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And then you're gonna take in a deep breath. And the reason why we're gonna take in a deep breath, and we're just gonna do it for like four seconds, and then we're gonna exhale a longer breath. Let's do this together. So I like to close my eyes. We're gonna press in. We're gonna take a deep breath in. Here we go. Now let's breathe it out. And then you're going to say to yourself, I'm okay.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm loved. I'm loved. And I'm capable of doing this. And I'm capable of doing this. How do you feel? Free. Let me explain what just happened because there's a little bit of science involved here. First of all, by taking action, we stopped you from thinking.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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So when you literally say to yourself, okay, you put your hand on your heart and this is where the vagus nerve is, this is the on-off switch and you press in, you are now taking action, which means you're dropping into your body and getting out of your head. Wow. When you breathe in, and you know, there's a lot of breathing techniques. You can Google them. It doesn't matter really.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Mel Robbins is a force.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You can breathe in for four seconds, five seconds, whatever. The most important part is breathe out longer. Because when you breathe out longer... You're pushing it out.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And you're signaling on that exhale that you're actually in control.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Yes. Yes. And when you say those mantras to yourself, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved, and I am capable, in that moment, you actually are.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Yes. And there's one more tool I'm going to give you. And this comes from research at Harvard. I want you before any presentation or any work thing that makes you nervous to say, I'm excited. I'm really excited to give this presentation. Yep. I'm really excited to go in and talk to this client. I'm really excited to do this thing.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Because the interesting thing about the research is anxiety and nerves is the exact same physiological thing as excitement. butterflies in the stomach, you get them both times, sweaty armpits, nervous excitement, racing heart, anxiety, excitement. So your body doesn't know the difference between something that excites you and something that actually makes you nervous or anxious.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You know why people get butterflies in their stomach, Oprah and Leah? I'm gonna tell you why. Because when you go into a stress response or you feel a little wave of anxiety, it's signaling to your body, first of all, your fight or flight mechanism kicks in. The amygdala takes over and your stress response is now engaged. And it has a really important purpose because it's making you pay attention.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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At the same time, your biology changes. So the blood that is flowing through your entire body now goes to your heart and your brain to get you ready to do the thing. It's organizing you. And so the reason why you have butterflies is the blood is leaving your digestive tract.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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The reason why you always have to pee before a presentation is if you're going to have to run or do something, you don't need a full bladder. This is your body getting ready. And most of us, because we go up to our heads and we separate. That's why I have to pee. Yes. Okay.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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Most of us separate from self and separate from power. Yes. And we go up into our heads and we go, oh, my God, I got butterflies. I'm going to screw this thing up. And no. No. Your body's just changing its chemistry to help you actually pay attention so you can do the thing you were planning on doing. Well, I just love the, okay, I'm okay.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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You actually gain it.

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety

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And later... And the decision that changed my life was the decision to get out of bed that morning.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so yes, react, but at some point you gotta go let them because it helps you recognize and accept the reality and detach from something. Yeah, it's already happened. And detach most importantly from what you can't control.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Let me. Let me choose what I'm going to do. And when you say let me, you do something crazy powerful. First of all, you take responsibility. for how you're going to address this. And let's look at the word responsibility. It's the ability to respond. And when you say, let me, you are reminding yourself that in life, there are only three things, Lewis, you can control. Only three things.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Number one, you can control what you think next. Number two, you can control what you do or you don't do next. And oftentimes doing nothing is way more powerful than doing something. And number three, you can control what you're going to do with the emotions that you feel. And when you say, let me, in any situation, You detach from the things you cannot control.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you remind yourself that no matter what is happening around me or to me, I always have power. Because through my thoughts and through my actions and through the processing of my emotion, I can positively impact or change what's happening for the better. And if you allow yourself to constantly get stressed out or waste your time,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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By managing what you will never be able to control, you will never see the power that you have. And so this gets back to the question that you asked, which is what is the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way? And the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way is the power you unknowingly give to other people. And there are four main ways that you're doing it.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And it is blocking your ability to be happy. It is blocking your ability to make decisions that are aligned with what you want. It is blocking your ability to leverage your time for the things that you care about. It is keeping you from pursuing the things that you're capable of doing in your life. And it is also draining your time.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the four big ways that you've turned other people into a problem Number one, you allow them to stress you out. Number two, you're so concerned about what everybody else thinks, it is a massive obstacle in your way because you consider it before you do anything. Number three, you navigate your entire life based on other people's emotional reactions

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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and you allow emotional immaturity in other people and in yourself to dominate how you move through your day. And number four, your habit of chronically looking over there and comparing yourself makes you feel like life is unfair and that other people are against you or competing with you. And all four of those things are simply not true.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you can use the let them theory to remove all four of those obstacles. And when you no longer allow people to stress you out, you have more energy. When you allow people, you let them think negative thoughts about you because you recognize you can't control what they think anyway. It frees you up to focus on what's within your control, which is what you think about yourself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when you operate in a way, Lewis, that makes you proud of yourself, you authentically don't really care if people have a negative opinion. When it comes to emotional immaturity, so many of us are driven by guilt, or we're scared to disappoint people, or we don't want to let people down, or we think it's our job to make other people happy.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when you organize your life around managing another adult's feelings, you become the parent to another human being. And there's a much easier way. Let them. Let them be disappointed. Let them be upset. Let them be sad that you're doing something that they wanted you to do, but you're not gonna do it. Let them be an adult and let them deal with themselves.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the fourth one is when you spend tons of time comparing yourself to other people, and look, comparison is normal. Comparing yourself to other people isn't the problem. It's what you're doing with it that is. And so using the let them theory, you gotta let other people be successful.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Because right now what's happening is when you see somebody else succeeding or happy or they're pregnant or they're engaged or they're doing whatever, they're building some big brand. and you tell yourself, oh my God, they've already done what I wanted to do. I'm too late. Because they've done it, now I can't do it. You actually are working against the laws of the world.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Because success and happiness and joy and friendship and love, these are all things that are in limitless supply. And the truth about life is that you're not actually playing against other people. You're playing with them.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when you turn other people into a problem and you look at other people's success or happiness or the things that they've achieved or experienced in their lives as evidence that you won't have it, you're working against the natural order of things. Other people can't actually block your way. Only you can do that. And if you let people show you the way,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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If you let them inspire you, if you let them reveal the formula to success, now you're learning from people instead of turning people into a problem that is blocking you from doing what you're capable of. And those are the four ways that you have turned other people into a problem.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you have allowed other people and your desire to control them or to manage them or the sense that you have this responsibility to make everybody else happy. And you've forgotten about the one person whose job it is that you are supposed to be making happy, which is you. Kind of cool, huh?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Well, it started at the prom, which is crazy. Was this two years ago?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Everything.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Everything. I didn't see this. See, it's sort of like you and I both have dyslexia. I didn't discover that I had dyslexia and ADHD until I was 47. Right. Because my, and I found out the way most women do. My son was getting evaluated for school and I'm like- You're like, oh, I think I have the same thing here.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And if you don't know the problem, then you have no access to solving it. And for years, Louis, I thought that the primary thing that I was struggling with was anxiety. Because when you have dyslexia or ADHD and it's not diagnosed or addressed, the thing that rises to the surface is anxiety. And anxiety wasn't my problem. Anxiety was a symptom.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Oh, well, it's very simple. Like if you're sitting in a classroom and your brain can't do what everybody else can do and you're falling behind.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Of course, because you're uncertain. And anxiety in my mind is just a situation where you feel like there's an unknown, right? And you add in this belief that you're not capable of figuring it out.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the problem is that when something feels overwhelming or you don't know or things feel a little out of control, we focus on that and then we start worrying versus focusing on the fact that you're actually capable of figuring something out. That's all that anxiety is. It's a separation with the power inside you. And then of course your body has this alarm system.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when something is happening in the moment or it's about to happen and you get nervous because you're uncertain or you're afraid of how things are gonna turn out or you're afraid that the teacher's gonna call on you, right? The alarm system in your body goes off. And then you separate yourself from your power because you always have the ability to figure something out.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And for somebody who starts to struggle chronically with anxiety, what ends up happening is that you start to, when you feel nervous in your body, which by the way, it is a mentally healthy response if you're a dyslexic kid in classroom and you don't know what the hell's going on to feel nervous.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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That's a sign that your things are working well because the alarm is trying to tell you something's not right.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And then we feel the alarm and we don't know what the issue is. So then we make a major mistake. Instead of dropping into the alarm, which is always in your body, we go upstairs to our heads, which is where self-doubt is. And then you start going, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, which only makes the alarm go. bigger. I didn't know any of this back then.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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So I, of course, went from a dyslexic and ADHD kid to somebody that develops anxiety because I'm sitting in a classroom thinking I'm an idiot. And you want to know the kid that works the hardest in school? The one who's struggling. Not the kids that are getting straight A's.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Even if they're working hard.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes. It's the kid who isn't able to learn in that way and is terrified of being found out. Like you don't have to tell a kid that's struggling in school that like telling somebody to work harder is dumb. Because it's not an issue of willpower, it's an issue of I don't have the skills right now.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when you're in that situation where you can't, in fact, there's a doctor that was on our show two weeks ago that you gotta have on, his name is Dr. Stuart Avalon. And Lewis, he said this sentence, he's been at Mass General Brigham for 30 years, incredible. Child psychiatrist, he says, people do well when they can. And if somebody's not doing well, and they're exhibiting challenging behavior,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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it's because they're missing one of a few skills. And he's been able to identify it down into five skills. And one of the tragic things about his work with kids that he sees over and over is that it's not the kid's fault.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And if you don't know what the skill is that you need, whether it's communicating or impulse control or it is the ability to learn in the way that your brain's being asked to learn, these are all things that can be addressed. If you don't know what the skill is that's missing, you will continue to struggle.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And we live in a world where if you're struggling or you're presenting challenging behavior, we punish you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes, or you punish yourself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Correct. And so the let them theory is the exact same thing because it is a skill to be able to identify what's in your control and what's not in your control. And it is a skill anybody can learn. And you need to learn it because human beings at our core, we have a fundamental hardwired need for control. It makes us feel safe.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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So if you really think about this, like you need to feel in control of your decisions. You need to feel in control of your environment. You need to feel in control of what's gonna happen in the future or at work today. And we also try to make ourselves feel safe by what? Controlling the people around us. And this is in all of us. I have this need to be in control.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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You have this need to be in control. This is why the parent-child relationship is so irritating, right? Because you're the parent or you're the adult child and you have a need to be in control of yourself, but your parent only feels safe if they're in control of you. And that sets up a problem for every relationship that you're in. Because if I can't control you, it makes me feel unsafe.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But if I try to control you, Lewis, then you're gonna feel annoyed. And what happens in the body, and I write about this in the book, because the first thing you're gonna learn when you learn this skill of identifying what's not in your control and removing it as an obstacle in your life. Because when you stop giving power to things that aren't in your control, guess what you get back?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Time, energy, power, confidence, peace, joy. You realize you do have agency and that that power isn't over there, it's in here. And you have the exact same thing. And when you start to tap into that for yourself, it's just liberating.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And then you start to see the second thing that I write about in the book, which is that there are four ways you're screwing up your relationships because you're trying to control people. And any psychologist will tell you that

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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When you try to control something that you can't control, it just creates stress and frustration for you and it creates tension and misunderstanding and distance in your relationships. Because if you have a need to control and I have a need to control, right? And I try to pressure you to do something, Lewis, your brain is wired not to feel motivated

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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but to actually resist the change I want you to make.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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No, no. And so it was fascinating also to see that for 54 years, I was actually operating the opposite of human wiring when it came to relationships.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Well, we all are. We all are.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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How does that look?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Of course.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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They can stay up all night. No, no. Because this is a book about adult relationships. And we make a huge distinction because when you're an adult, You are, and you have a child, or you're a caregiver or coach. You can't let them. No. You are a, well, there are certain things you need to let them do.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But there are certain guardrails that are your responsibility. For example, a child cannot regulate their own emotions. Right. You have to, it's your responsibility to teach a child how to regulate their own emotions. And the problem is that no adults know how to do this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Correct, which is why another philosophy and rule in the Let Them Theory book is that from this point forward, go through life and see every adult is an eight year old in a big body. And when you do that, something fascinating happens. Instead of being scared of people, who are challenging or narcissistic or passive or immature, you actually can let them be and you feel compassion.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you also realize it's not your job to make excuses for somebody who is immature. It's not your job to change somebody who has a narcissistic personality style. It's not your job to take away somebody's disappointment or sadness. You need to let them. And when you do it, it's the ultimate boundary because then you separate your emotions and energy from someone else.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And then you say the second part, which is let me. Let me double down on my values and let me see this person very clearly. Because if I see this person's immature behavior, and I visualize the eight-year-old version of them, what I realize is that this is a person who was just never taught the skill of understanding and managing their emotions in a responsible and healthy way.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I can't teach them that.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Okay, great. Excellent question.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Right.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Bingo.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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See, here's the thing. Who is the power in a narcissistic relationship?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Correct, but you're only allowing it if you see it happening and you make excuses for it and you stay. Yes. So if you let them reveal who they are. And so this is a very important point. You are not allowing people to abuse you.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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In fact, what the let them theory does is it helps you wake up, perhaps for the first time, and actually see somebody very clearly as they are and not make an excuse because people's behavior is the truth.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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People can say anything that they want, but if you watch their behavior, someone tells you exactly who they are and they tell you what their priorities are and where you fall in those priorities. So let them reveal who they are. And if you are in a situation with any human being

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you let them be who they are and they reveal to you that they are emotionally abusive or narcissistic or they don't call back or they keep saying that they're going to stop drinking and they don't. Or they promise that they're not going to raise their voice, but they do. Let them. Because your power is not in trying to change them because you can never change another human being.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Human beings only change when they feel like it. and they are not gonna change for you. People only change when they feel like changing for themselves. And so trying to make someone else change or wishing that they would change, that's not where your power is. Don't put your time and energy there. Let someone reveal who they are. And then say the second part, which is let me.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Let me remind myself that I always have power because I can leave any conversation, I can leave any interview, I can leave any date, I can leave any relationship, I can leave any dining room table. Any job. Any job, any time I choose. And so, you know, I also say this knowing the research, I used to work at Domestic Violence Hotline.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when I was a public defender, we had a tremendous amount of training in crisis intervention. And I know you've covered this topic a lot and you understand trauma and have written about it extensively. And I say this in abusive relationships, this is a life-changing tool for you to say, let them, and here's why.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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On average, at least the research I saw last, it took a woman seven times of leaving to leave for good in a domestic. And here's why, I'll tell you why. The reason why is if you look at brain circuitry,

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you look at all that research that scientists have done on addiction, and there's this famous study, I'm gonna get completely wrong, it's part of my brand to just like kind of miss some of the details, get the gist of it. So they put these poor rats in two different cages.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And in one of the cages, they give the rats like all the sugar that they want or heroin, or I don't even know what they were giving these rats. And it's on tap. And of course, they're like tap, tap, tap, but then they kind of get a little like tired of it. In this cage, they put the rats in with the same sugar or heroin or whatever, but they gave it to them randomly.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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So you would tap it once and get your hit, and then you'd go back and it's water. And then you hit it again, and then maybe it comes again. And then you hit it a couple more times and it's water, and then you hit it again. It's called intermittent rewards. It is the exact same mechanism as pulling a slot machine.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Like sometimes you win and then you gotta pull it 23, and then you win again. And it's that lack of predictability, which by the way is the exact same mechanism with social media. Because when you're scrolling, for those of us that have been caught doom scrolling, this is not your fault. The algorithm's designed this way.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It's designed to feed you things that are like a dopamine hit, and then you get a bunch of boring crap. But have you ever noticed as you start to talk to yourself, I gotta go to bed, like I really need to go to bed. And then you hit one thing, okay, and then you're on for another, it's intermittent reward.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so in the cycle of an emotionally or physically or sexually abusive relationship, what happens is the relationship cycle is one where it's calm, and then the abuse, and then the apology, and then it's calm. And the fact that it's not always like it negatively the whole time makes you do what we all do when we're on social media. I know that I need to do something, but...

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes, and so you- You want that to happen all the time, but it's not. Correct, and the world's leading experts, you've had Dr. Romani Diversa on a number of times here, leading expert in the world on narcissism.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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She has said that the single biggest problem in a narcissistic relationship, whether it's your mother or the person that you're dating or a brother or sister or friend, is the hope that they will change. Oh, God, it's so hard.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Likelihood is not. Yeah. But... I think that you can hold out the belief that people can change. And at the same time, you can live in the reality of who they actually are right now.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And that's the power of letting them. You're not letting them do anything to you. You're letting them reveal exactly who they are through their behavior. And for the first time, you are not explaining it away. And that is the biggest issue that people also face in dating. We're so terrified to be single, and I get it. I've been married a long time.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I have two daughters that are, one is single, the other's in a relationship, and the obsession with not wanting to be the single friend. Like how awesome it is to have plans on the weekend. Like the fear that you have that you're not gonna meet the one. And the problem is that we are so married to the fantasy that we chase the potential.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you don't see the reality of the person that you're actually with. And the explaining away of behavior is the single biggest reason why you'll waste years of your life or months of your life with the wrong person. Because you're up here going, well, if they'd only lose some more weight or they'd be more motivated or they didn't watch golf all weekend or treated me nicer, then maybe.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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No, this is exactly who this person is.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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You have to, that's the let me part.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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No, no.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes. That's exactly right, Lewis. And here's the cool part. No human being's perfect. Of course not. And we can all learn skills.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so whose responsibility is it to create the relationship that you deserve? See, I think it's your responsibility. It's our responsibility. And the way that you do it is you allow someone, you let them be who they are.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And then you come back to yourself and anything that's annoying you or frustrating you or that you're griping to your friends about whether it's work or it's a friendship or your parents or whatever, that's the let me part. Yes. let me either stop bitching about this, because that's the only way that you know how you accept it.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Right?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Or let me sit down and be the emotionally mature one and make the request. So Chris has done this with me. So I'll play this out this way. So, you know, you're good friends with my husband, Chris, and you know, Chris, he's like Mr. Men's Retreat, deaf doula, zen, amazing man. And I, you know, if you go into our bathroom, Louis, Chris's counter.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It drives you crazy, doesn't it? Mine is just like Martha's. It looks like the CVS aisle tipped over on top of it.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It drives Chris bananas. He has learned to let me. Now. Now I let her on her side. Correct, correct. But when the brush comes onto your side, which I do too, because I walk over and I put it down and I walk back. So here's the thing though, if it really starts to annoy you.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, you're not gonna be able to control her, right? You are starting to get annoyed. So now, you know, it is actually draining some energy. The power is not in controlling her, it's in your response. So you go to Mark, Chris comes to me and says, Mel, I love you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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The real trigger for Chris is cardboard boxes. Cardboard boxes? Oh, yeah. Because what happens is they show up. You get boxes. Yeah, yeah. And then Chris is Mr. Slice them down, flatten them, stack them. Organize them, recycle them, whatever. Yes. Stack them in the garage in a certain way. They got all stacked up. He likes to put one in boxes. I don't know. Like, I don't know.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And he would ask me, when the boxes come and you enter them, please slice them. And I would do it some of the time. But most of the time what I do is I just stack them next to the door to the garage.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I mean to come down at the end of the day. So Chris would come in and he'd see them and he has asked me multiple times. So of course it stresses him out and pisses him off and annoys him.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But what he did is he sat me down because there's a big difference between what you intend and the impact it has in another person.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I'm like, now spit it out, Louis.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I said an assistant. There you go. It's true, though. But what he said to me was this. He said, every time I see those cardboard boxes there, it's like a giant middle finger to me.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Correct. You think I'm your maid. And I have asked about this. And when he explained it that way, what happened is it tapped into my intrinsic motivation because I value how he feels. Of course. And when he communicated that way and he let me know, now I am motivated to do it because I know why it matters. And this is really important.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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When you communicate something to someone that it matters to you and they don't do it, you have to let them. And here's why.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It depends on the issue.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But if I repeatedly then ignore it.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Well, Chris has to choose.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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to either talk to me again, or if it's a big enough issue, Lewis, is this the right relationship?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Do I want to be with somebody who I sit down and repeatedly share my feelings and my needs with, and then they do not do anything?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the behavior shows that I don't matter.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It's deeply personal.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And this is why it's important to understand where your control is, because what's ultimately gonna happen is if you have an issue with somebody in your life, whether it's your parents or your boss or whatever, and you've addressed it in a very mature and loving way, and nothing has changed, it's likely not going to. And then it comes back to you. Let me choose.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes. What do I deserve? And if it's somebody who repeatedly, like let's take it to the context of dating, because this was an example that's kind of funny and relatable. But if you're in a relationship with somebody and you want to take it to the next level and they don't want to put a label on it, is like, are those the table scraps you're going to take?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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If they're sneaking out early in the morning, like some stray cat, is that actually, seriously, is that the love you deserve?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But you know what I'm saying? Because what we then do is we go up into our minds and we start explaining away the behavior.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes, and if only I can be closer to him. If only I can spend more time with him. Maybe if I learn how to play golf. Maybe if I, like, that now you're changing yourself. Changing yourself. Because you refuse to let the person reveal who they are.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Period. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's important that I recently heard some experts say, and I think it's a really important statistic to know, that 11% of people in long-term relationships have that sort of instant spark. Right. 89% were the slow burn. And that's also important to know.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Because over time, people reveal who they are too. And it's why people grow on you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And one of the other reasons why I love this theory so much, you know, because we're all good friends, that Chris and I are about as opposite as they come in terms of energy and communication. He's calm. Oh, calm. Because you have a pulse. I mean, the guy's a death tool for crying out loud. Oh, man. He keeps my feet on the ground and I keep our life fun and exciting.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah. But he's the ground and the soul and the foundation.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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That is one hell of a question. And I can't wait to hear your response when I tell you what it is. Okay. No, I'm serious. Okay. Because I didn't see this until two years ago. And what's interesting is that we all think we know what is holding us back. And we describe it, whether it's money or time or I'm exhausted or I'm stuck or it's my past or it's my mindset. And it's not that at all.

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And when I stumbled onto this, Chris and I have been through hell and back. And he is my most favorite thing about life. And there is something about Let Them that is a profound act of love. Because in my mind, when I think about love, I think love is two things. I think it's consideration. So having someone else in mind.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Like literally, if you make a cup of coffee for somebody and you put in the oat milk, because that's what they like, that's an act of love because you have consideration. When I slice the cardboard box and flatten it, I have Chris in mind. And the second part of love for me is admiration, which is the ability to see something in someone else that you admire.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you asked, how do you go the distance? I think a long-term successful relationship requires two things. It requires two people who want it to work. And that's an important thing. Because if you look at any relationship that breaks up, whether it's divorce or a breakup, there is a moment looking back where at least one of the people- Didn't want it to work. Yeah.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the second component is that you're both willing to do the work, to make it work. It's almost like you're always gonna be on a seesaw with somebody in a long-term relationship, ups, downs, balance, but neither one of you will get off the seesaw. That's what it takes because if one of you gets off, the whole thing breaks.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so that's why it's really important to learn how to let someone be who they are because I think it's a huge act of love. And one of the cool things about it for me, and it's not so much with Chris, but it's with other family members that have had very challenging issues or challenging personality styles, is that

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And a lot of us don't know that. But when you let someone be disappointed, and you just take that example because so many of us are motivated by guilt or we don't want to let people down. If you have a business partnership and they want you to come to some meeting or come give a speech and it just doesn't work and they're disappointed, isn't that a good thing?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Doesn't that mean they want you there?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And we think we've done something wrong. No, you've actually done something great. because you have a relationship where somebody wants you there. So let them be disappointed. Sure. But then do the second part, let me remind myself of my values. And I don't bend over backwards just to make sure other people aren't disappointed.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I just let them be disappointed and I remind myself that I need to act in a way and spend my time in a way that actually supports the things that are priorities for me. And if I value, for example, family, and this is another very important thing because so many people are motivated by guilt.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I used to be deeply motivated by making sure that, oh my God, if I felt guilty because I'm working too much or didn't see my parents or whatever, and then I'd change everything, and then I'd still feel guilty because it wasn't quite enough. Don't ever do something because you feel guilty.

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When you change your plans and you go home to see your parents because you feel guilty, you just made your parents the villain.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes. And because you're making it a thing you have to do. If you let them be disappointed and then you come back to yourself and you say, OK, well, let me drop into my values. And for me, my dad's 80 this year and I'm lucky I got 10 more holidays with him. And so I don't make the time to see them because I want him to think I'm a good daughter.

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If you're not happy, if you don't have what you want in life, if you're exhausted, tired, stuck, or overwhelmed, the problem isn't what you think it is. In fact, the problem isn't you. The problem is the power you are unknowingly giving to other people. And I didn't see it. I didn't see this until about two years ago when there was this just kind of random thing that happened to me.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I make the time to see him because it makes me know I'm a good daughter because I value it. And the other thing that I love about Letthem, especially in challenging political times, is there are very good people in your life that have political opinions that you just cannot explain. And it's a deeply personal issue for everybody around what crosses a line.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But there is space when you say let them for someone else to have a belief that you don't understand. and for you to not be emotionally charged by it. And then for you to come back to your power and say, let me decide how much time and energy I pour into this relationship. Let me decide the role that family plays.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Let me decide if I'm going to take the time to step in their shoes and try to understand how they have come to this belief. Because one of the other things that I've learned, and especially in researching this book, is that our brains are very interesting because when you, when somebody has a different opinion than you, or they tell you something you don't wanna hear, they've scanned your brain.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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This is research from Dr. Tali Sher. Your brain literally turns off the listening part when somebody is telling you something that you don't wanna hear. And so by yelling at each other or arguing about things or, I don't understand how you could possibly, That doesn't do anything but create this silent distance between people.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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When you let people have their beliefs and then you remind yourself, let me decide what I value and let me decide what energy I'm gonna pour into what and let me decide if I wanna keep the space in this relationship open. Because the other thing that I was getting super wrong in relationships, Lewis, is I know that I have to push myself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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because I'm lazy and stubborn and doubtful and anxious like everybody else, right? I don't wanna do the hard, so I'm like five or three, I wanna push myself. So naturally I push everybody else. And our brains are not only wired for control, but we move toward what's easy, which is why you sit on the couch instead of exercising, because it's easy. And we move away from what feels hard.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And if you're a parent, you're stomping up the stairs because your kid's not motivated and you hear the Xbox going, do you think studying is easy for that kid? No. That's why they're doing it. And when you come stomping up the stairs to open up the door and be like, are you studying?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, do you think that's motivating?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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You just create more resistance to the change that you want.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Now, you can't make someone change, but I never said you couldn't influence them.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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So through letting somebody be who they are, and then coming back to let me, let me approach this in a different way. If I know I can't change this person, and I know that the hardest working person is the person who's struggling. I mean, people that are fat, they know they are. They know they are. People that are unhealthy, they know they are. and their intention with themselves.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Of course, I see, I choose to believe that everybody wants to be thriving. I choose to believe that everybody wants to feel good about themselves. I choose to believe that, you know, if you're broke, I've been broke. I knew it. I knew I wanted to change my relationship with money. In fact, I needed your new book, Louis. You know, where were you 14 years ago?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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People know when they're not living up to their potential. They are already actively in tension with themselves. They don't need pressure from you because it just creates more weight and shame around an issue they already wish they could change.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Or have you just made an assumption that you know? Like it's like, oh, thanks a lot. I should pay off my bills. Never thought of that. Right. Oh, I should eat healthier. Oh, thanks. You know, Einstein.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Didn't occur to me that I should exercise. Right. So you feel like. So here's how you do it. And this comes from one of our favorite people, Dr. K, the healthy gamer.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Okay, no problem. But this is important. This is a really good technique. So first things first, you just follow this ABC method. A is you'll apologize. You apologize for pressuring and judging and assuming. And I like to have these conversations, by the way, in the car, because there's no drinking.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And there's something about, I guess the word is forward ambulation as the car is moving that creates more open-mindedness. And plus you're not looking at each other.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, and you're trapped, you know, because you're in a car.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so you apologize for being judgy and assuming and a know-it-all. And then you're gonna ask some open-ended questions. I haven't even asked you how you feel about your health. And they might say nothing, I'm fine. What makes you like fine about it? And here's the most important question. Is there anything that you want to do about it?

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I was, I'll tell you the quick story and then we can get into the let them theory and how you've made other people a problem. And there are eight key ways that you have turned other people into the biggest obstacle in your life. And other people should be one of the greatest sources of inspiration and connection and joy and love.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And Dr. K says, it doesn't even matter what their answers are because what you're doing is you're removing outside pressure.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes. And you're actually putting your arm around them. And when that tension rises up inside you, like I've known in my life when I drink too much, I've known when I've been a walking red flag. I've known when I've been struggling. I've known when I'm in the wrong job. I've known when I'm not taking care of myself. And I'm in tension with myself. Like nobody's actually stuck. In tension.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, with myself. Oh, I love it. In tension. In tension. Yeah, like in frustration and friction. Yeah. And nobody's actually stuck. People who are stuck have woken up a little bit and they're like, I'm not happy where I am. But you're not quite sure what to do about it or worse, you don't have hope that it's gonna work. Right. And so when you say, what would you like to do about it?

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You've now just exposed the gap between what they actually want and what they're doing. And you're awakening intrinsic motivation. So then you go to B, back off. That's it, back off. Back off.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Don't try to control them.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you better wait three to six months, just back off.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, great. And if you screw up again, apologize again. Open-ended questions again. You thought about what you might want to do about this, if anything at all. And then the third part is C, which is you got to celebrate any small thing you see without being passive aggressive. Oh, see, it wasn't that bad.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And here's the thing that none of us do. You got to model the behavior change.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you cannot expect someone to stop drinking while you're pouring yourself a glass of wine. You can't expect someone else to motivate and go for a walk every morning when you're not. And you also have to make it look fun and easy. And I want you to give it three to six months and here's why. We all have the need to feel in control. They have to have enough space from you

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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for it to feel like their idea.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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So I love this example where if you think about being at work and I'm like one of those people that used to eat the sandwich, work through work, like eat through my lunch break, like shoving a sandwich in my mouth. And you see somebody get up and go for a walk, work, work, work, work, work. And then they come back and they're super refreshed. And the next day, work, work, work, work, work.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And they go for a walk. After a couple of weeks, one of these days you're gonna look outside, And you're always going to think, you know, I should go for a walk.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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You don't credit them. You think it was your idea. But that was the influence of your colleague.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Who made something look easy and fun.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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This is why we buy so much dumb stuff online, because people are making it look easy and fun.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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That's the power of your influence.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And when you let them be who they are and you let them change on their own timeline and you learn to love them as they are. It's so hard. then you've just created the space for positive change to happen. And what I also love about this is that when you do it this way and you let them, you're also communicating, I believe you can.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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When you micromanage pressure and protect other people from the greatest teacher in the world, which is life, then you're actually saying, I don't believe you're strong enough to face this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And instead, they're a constant source of stress and frustration and energy drain, and they do not have to be. And it is this invisible obstacle that is in everybody's way, that is stealing your time, is stealing your energy, and you don't even realize it. And there's a totally different way to go through life. And so first I'm gonna tell you the story about how I had this life-changing insight.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Everybody.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Well, of course, because I'm a control freak. Right. And we couch it as worry and love and thinking we know best. And it's a wonderful thing, Lewis, to want more for the people you love. It's a wonderful thing to see the potential of a friend of yours. It's a wonderful thing to see that if your brother would stop drinking, his life would get better.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It's a wonderful thing to want your girlfriend to stop dating these losers. Wanting a better life for somebody else is a beautiful thing. But we've been going about it the wrong way. been pressuring, worrying, judging, fixing, controlling. And the truth is, the more you let people be who they are, the better your relationships will be.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the more you let people live their lives, the better your life gets. And the more you learn to see who people are, the more you get to choose how much time and energy you pour into what relationships and which ones you don't. This doesn't make you closed off. It actually makes you more connected and more compassionate and more loving and more supportive. And for me as a mom, and even as a boss,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It's made me realize the power in truly operating in a way where I'm clear when I'm especially at work about what the outcome is, but then I have to let people do the job because that gives them control over their creativity and expression. And with my kids, Learning how to let them live their lives and let them make mistakes and let them face the consequences of the decisions.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It is the single most powerful thing I could do because I'm saying to them, I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to figure this out and know that the second you need me, I'm there because I'm always standing on the side cheering for you. I'm not on the field playing. I'm standing on the side cheering for you because I believe you can win this game.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, yeah. How might I support you if that's what you want to do?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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So I have three kids, 25-year-old, 23-year-old, both girls, and a 19-year-old son. And our two daughters had gone through the prom, right, twice. And let's talk about a nightmare, okay?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, like what is the love you deserve? What is the friendship you deserve?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And like, because the thing is, is that if somebody's cheating on you, it's already happening.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And if you're getting walked all over or taken advantage of even at work, like you get the crappy shift every weekend.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yes, and the mistake we make is we actually think we don't have power in that situation. You're wrong. And it's interesting because that is the single kind of biggest pushback on the let them theory, which is, am I just letting people walk all over me? No, you're doing that right now.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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because you're making excuses for it. And you think that the way to get somebody to stop walking all over you is to try to change them, no. The way you get somebody to stop walking all over you is to walk out the door and not be present for it.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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If you ever want to experience high stress, do a high school prom with a daughter, and you'll experience five months of drama around dresses and spray tans and makeup and nails and restaurants and limos and who they're going to go and the promposals. And I mean, it's literally... What the unbelievable.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It's going to be everywhere. And everyone's going to be saying it about you. Like my family uses this more with me than I use it with anyone else.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And it brings us closer.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Completely different.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I feel more present. than I ever have.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Yeah, and I don't feel any challenge in my life right now because I do feel that what is happening, especially with the let them theory, I think this is my legacy.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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I do. And I just want to be present because I know that whatever it is that's happening in the world in this moment, I feel called to share this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I spent so much of my life either feeling anxious or being a walking red flag because I just didn't know how to break out of the patterns that I was in and I was controlling the wrong things that I don't remember a lot and I wasn't present for a lot of my life.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so I think the biggest challenge is being present in this moment and really keeping my feet on the ground as the airplane that I'm on is moving 500 miles an hour. And, you know, one of my deepest values is family. And so I want to make sure that as I am present for what is happening right now and the interest in this tool.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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You basically need a colonic and a spa day after the whole thing is over in therapy for three months because of the buildup. So I just figured, we've gone through this thing four times already with our daughters. When Oakley rolls around, gonna be a breeze. Completely wrong. It was almost worse. Really? Yes, because he was so noncommittal.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And one of the reasons why it works also, Lewis, is because it's just a modern tool that has deep roots in stoicism and Buddhism and detachment theory. So it is supported by ancient wisdom and the best research around psychology and human behavior, and it just applies it. And so I feel that I'm not alone, you know? And I'm grateful for your support.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I think it's just time.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Thank you.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And everybody that's got a brother or a son or is a dude is like, yeah, uh-huh. He wasn't sure he was gonna go.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Like, don't you want to go? And I'm starting to kind of needle him about it. I don't know. And then all of a sudden, Louis, two days before the thing, he's like, all right, I'm going. And now we have to find a tux. And we live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. And he wants a certain kind of Adidas shoes that we got to find online and get shipped.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And then he's going to all of a sudden ask some chick he doesn't know. And what corsage, this, that, the other. And so we get to the night of prom. And by the way, in the middle of these 48 hours, Chris and I have been talked into now hosting the post-prom at our house. And so it was just this crazy whirlwind. And so we go to this party that happens before prom where everybody's taking the photos.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And we walk in and we meet his date. And we're milling about and talking to other parents. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, it starts to rain. And by rain, I mean pouring rain. We live in the mountains, so it just kind of comes in and out, but it was not in the forecast. So you've got 20 kids in black tie and heels now in the middle of the woods in pouring rain.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And the parents are starting to get on edge. And I turned to Oakley and I'm like, dude, like, where are you guys going for dinner? He's like, dinner. What do you mean? I'm like, you don't have plans for dinner? Prom doesn't start for two hours. What do you do? I don't know. And so I turned to Chris, I'm like, they don't have plans for dinner? He's like, I guess not.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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It didn't bother Chris, but for some reason, I'm now starting to get stressed.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Correct. I'll explain why I was getting stressed. So I start to go, okay, well, let me help. And so I start looking for a reservation. Some other moms and dads start trying to figure things out. And I'm like, I can't find anything. And the rain's getting worse and worse. And I turned to Oak and I'm like, I can't find anything. Well, we're just going to go to the taco stand.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I'm like, the tacos, dude, it's outside. You're going to get soaked. And I start to just feel the stress coming up. And my daughter, Kendall, who lives here in Los Angeles, was home from college. And she reached out and grabbed my armless and kind of pulled me toward her. And she was like, Mom, you're being so annoying. And I was like, but, but, but.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And she's like, Mom, let him do what he wants. And I'm like, but he's gonna get, let him go to the taco set, but there's no room. And she kept saying, let him, let him, let him. And every objection was like, his shoes are gonna get soaked, her heels are gonna get ruined, her dress, the this, the that. And finally, she just was like, let them do what they want. It's their prom, not yours.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And there was something, Lewis, about that moment of the cascading, let them, let them, let them, let them. But it was almost like the final one was a sledgehammer that hit me and I just felt my whole body release. And I kind of thought, well, why do I care about this? Why am I not worried about where I'm eating? And so I felt myself just detach. I felt a sense of peace take over.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And I walked up to Oakley and he turned, he's like, now what? And I'm like, nothing, dude, here's 40 bucks, go have fun. And you then saw him drop his shoulders and smile and, wow, thanks mom. And he and his date ran out the door and sure enough, mud all over the back of her dress and his shoes were ruined and they were soaking wet by the time they got to Chris's truck. It was super cute.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so... I went home, I went to bed and then the next morning I was at like a garden center. You know, if you ever go to like a big store and there's a garden center.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so you're standing there in line, there's like five people in front of us and there's one cashier. Beep, beep, beep. Pause for small talk.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And if you've ever been in line at a grocery store, And the lines are backing up and there's no one else coming to the front and there's no announcement getting made. What happens? You start to feel the stress rise and then you start to rock and you feel agitated and impatient. And suddenly you think you can run a grocery store better than anybody else.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And you know, and you started to turn to the person behind you and you're like rolling your eyes and can you believe this? And I felt it coming and I said, let them. Let them run the store however they want. And I get home and I open up the door and the dog is puked right in that entryway. Let him. But I'm dead serious.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so all day long, whether it was traffic backing up or I send a text to somebody and they send like something sort of passive, let them. And I started to feel this instant lever of peace. And I started to feel this sense of protection from all this stupid stuff that I was allowing to drain my energy and to waste my time.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And if you stop and think about it, your single most valuable resources are time and energy. Because where you spend your time and what you pour your energy into determines the quality of your life. And what I started to notice very, very, very quickly, like within 24 hours, is that the reason why I didn't have a lot of time is because I was spending it getting worked up about stupid things.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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The reason why my energy was so drained is because I was allowing other people's behavior or things that were happening around me to actually drain my energy. And saying let them became this lever I could pull any moment where I felt my time and attention getting sucked towards something that truly wasn't worth my time and energy or didn't matter, or more importantly, beyond my control.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Because the dog's already thrown up. So I can't control what just happened. And as you talk about all the time, and as lots of people talk about, it's not about what's happening, it's about how you respond to it. And the problem that I've always had with stoicism or letting it go, or principles that are about being more peaceful and boundaries is that I never knew how to apply it.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Like, let's take the concept of let it go. I don't wanna let it go. Because it feels- Why don't you? Well, I'll tell you why, it feels like I'm losing. You know, when somebody says to you, Louis, you just gotta let it go, they're basically saying you lose, so stop worrying about it. That person won, you gotta let it go.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Well, it's a great question.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Because that actually happened to me. So I had two things happen in my company. One, where we had a contractor that literally stole our database and lied about a campaign that we thought we were paying for that was going on and it never actually happened and they presented fake data. Now, I have to let them because it happened and I didn't know until I discovered it too late.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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But there's a second part to this theory. because of course I'm gonna get upset and I'm gonna be pissed off, but allowing myself to stay in that state of rage, what I know is it doesn't allow me to leverage this part of my brain to then respond. And that's the second part of this theory that I discovered, which is once you say let them, you detach from the thing you can't control.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Because the other thing that happened to me, Lewis, and I think I've shared this story with you before, is that I was also the victim of a big wire fraud scam, $350,000. A scam that's very common in the real estate business where somebody breaks into a server and just intercepts emails and then changes banking information.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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No kidding. But by the time I figured it out, the money was gone.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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Gone. And the more upset that you get about something, the less you, the more upset that you get about something, the faster you lose your ability to think critically.

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Mel Robbins: How To Change Your Life With Two Simple Words

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And so when you say let them, it's like allowing something without allowing it. It's recognizing that there is something that happened or there is a person in your life that's doing something that's pissing you off or annoying you or stressing you out or worrying you. But you have no control over that.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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So to think that this tool has so far eclipsed that, it's just unreal.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Oh, I'm never writing another book because I can't top this. That's what you mean.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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No, because I know how hard I worked writing that book with my daughter and how much research went into it and the experts.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Zero, because here's the other thing. I don't, like, I'm very proud of the impact. I'm just proud that people are reading a book. I'm proud that people are interested in this moment in time in reading a nonfiction book, a self-help, are you kidding me? And that they're, I know they're reading it. Why? Because they're recommending it to people.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so I think it's bigger than a book because to me that's a sign of hope that people are taking time and turning it inward to improve themselves, which is how you create a ripple effect that improves everything. And so, you know, I guess I... The one thing that I'm doing is I feel very lucky because we live in Vermont, right? So I could not live in LA.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Oh, there's mountains. There's trees. We raised our family here in Boston. And then we moved to southern Vermont. And my son went to high school up there. And it is not in my face. it is easy to not get full of yourself when you wake up and there's bear poop in your driveway and you shop at a hardware store for your groceries and you, nobody cares. And honestly that like, I don't either. And so I,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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feel like I'm removed from the noise that is media and the machine and all the stuff that could really trip me up. And since it's not my face, I don't really think about it.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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19 miles from here, everybody. Right by Framingham. Yep. 19 miles. 2008. $800,000 in debt. My husband had restaurants in the Boston area.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Right. Everybody hates this answer.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Because it's not a pill. No, I'm serious, and it's not like a quick fix, and it's not one thing. I literally will tell you what changed my life was getting out of bed when I didn't feel like it. And the reason why that's important, and it's the same thing that you talk about, and nobody wants to hear it, I don't even want to hear this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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is that there is a skill in life that I didn't learn until I was 41 years old and I was about to lose everything. And the skill is, can you do the things you need to do when you don't feel like doing it? It's that simple. Everything that you want to create in business and in life is possible through action and patience. That's it.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And if you only did the things you don't feel like doing, you would have everything you wanted.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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It's boring. Actually, it's grueling. It's boring. It's the reason why it's a game of not quitting.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Because you've got to be willing to do all of the things you don't want to do. You've got to be willing to do all of the stuff that's boring and grueling on the days no one's watching, nobody cares, nobody's there to help you. It's just you against you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And that's why I'm going to go back and say if you can't haul your ass out of bed on those mornings on time when you don't feel like it, you're not going to achieve your goals. Because you're not going to make the cold call that you need to because you're not going to feel like it. You're not going to say no to a deal that's a bad deal for you because you feel like you need it.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You're going to get your emotions all jacked up and they're going to run you over. And so when I say, how did I build belief in myself? I did it the only way I know how. It's in proving that I believed in myself and that I could keep my word to myself no matter how I felt. And that begins every morning when the alarm rings. It's a daily battle.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Even though I invented this thing, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, to get you out of bed, I still have to use it. Like, I think it's a mistake. Like, every time you and I interview an expert that studies habits and they say, well, it's 21 days or it's 63 days, I'm like, baloney. That's only if you like it. Like, because there are things that have never become a habit for me, Lewis.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Like, I hate unloading the dishwasher. I have to force myself to do it. I hate folding laundry. I have to force myself to do it. There are going to be things in your life that you always hate doing. Do it anyway. And get over yourself. Because that's actually what's standing in the way of what you want. You know, it's easy to look at Lewis or me and be like, oh, well, it's so easy. It's boring.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You get up at 5.30 in the morning. You go to the gym. I got her to the studio. We had our first meeting at 7.40. Where's Cameron? Is Cameron still here? Cameron, there she is, one of our senior producers right there for the Mel Robbins podcast. Cameron was there, 7.45. She'll tell you I'm just as cranky at that point. You're like, run this thing. I was there until 8.30 tonight.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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We'll be back up tomorrow at 5.40 in the morning. Like, this is what it looks like. And so for me, how you believe in yourself is that if you can get out of bed enough times days in a row. And all you need in my opinion is 70%. I'll even give you 60%. If you can get 51%, like let's shoot low everybody.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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If you can get out of bed more days than not, when you don't feel like it, you're proving to yourself that you can rely on yourself to be bigger than the emotions in the moment. And that's what you need in life to keep going. And so it didn't come overnight. it came over time. And there are plenty of times where you're not gonna believe in yourself.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And that's when I use those tools that I shared, which are saying like, I refuse to believe that things end here. And then that's when I remind myself everything that has been really awful or good or anything has led me here, which means this awful thing is actually gonna leave me there.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And the other thing that I have recently started to think a lot about, I really feel like there are only two things that hold people back. And I'm not talking about the big external factors because there are very real factors that limit what's possible for you to achieve in a day. And I think it's very important to say that.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Like the amount that I can get done in a 24 hour window today is very different than what I could get done 14 years ago when I have three kids who are home and I can't pay my bills and I have no help. And so don't be beating yourself up when you see that quote like, yeah, everybody's got the same 24 hours. No, we don't. That is a lie. But you can do a lot with the time that you have.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And one of the things, though, that I think I've come to believe is that there's only two things that are actually stopping you from getting the results that you want over time. And what keeps people, I think, from really achieving what you're capable of are two things. The first one is discouragement. I think this is the single biggest obstacle.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1548.888

Yeah, just pure discouragement because let's just admit to ourselves, we live in this crazy, amazing moment of time where you could never, ever, ever say with a straight face or use an excuse, I don't know how. Go to chat GTP.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1567.563

No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. Literally, go to ChatGDP and say, act like the world's best life coach or business consultant. Here's the thing I want to create. Give me a 60-day plan. Tell me what to do every day for 15 minutes that will actually create that. Your jaw will hit the floor. And we literally had this thing happen with our podcast.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1587.221

We were having trouble with upload speeds in terms of getting files thing. And the team's been working on it, working on it. And I finally said, will you just put our equipment in ChatGTP and ask it how to solve this? Honest to God, you guys, 30 seconds later, it spit out the answer. We've been struggling with this for a year. So here's the thing, though. Information only makes you smart.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1610.656

It doesn't make you do it. And so you can be holding the answer in your hand. You can read Lewis's book, which is fantastic. And you can learn everything that you need to know in terms of the blueprint. But if you are discouraged, you won't do it because you will believe it's not going to work for you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1635.143

That's a great question. I don't know.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Yes. Well, so the thing about using 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to push through is I felt so discouraged. That's why I wasn't getting out of bed back then. Because I believed there was nothing I could do to get out of the financial mess that we were in. I believed that getting out of bed or looking for a job or laying off the drinking or not screaming at my husband, why would I do it?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Like, it's not going to work. It's not going to matter. And if you get yourself in that rut, it's not going to matter, then why would you do it? And so the interesting thing about that moment in time is that I don't know that anybody could have necessarily gotten through to me because I was so convinced. And you know how you can get so right about how stuck you are?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1704.481

Yes, yeah. It's kind of a way to stay in control, as weird as that is. And so I believe... that the best way, for me anyway, was simply that countdown thing, five, four, three, two, one, move. And what happened for me is that the action started to prove that there were little things that didn't fix the big problems, but they at least shifted a small thing in me.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1736.784

And again, it doesn't change overnight. It changes over time. So that's one thing. I think the other thing that's really important, honestly, and you're actually already doing it, which is pay attention to input.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1749.716

If you feel discouraged in your life listening to Lewis, being here on a Tuesday night, where you know he's not gonna come here and be like, you all are losers, and you're never gonna achieve your stuff, and this book is not for you because you're gonna be broke. No, you knew you were gonna get encouragement. And so seeking it out,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1771.688

is a really important thing to do when you recognize you can't do it for yourself. And so you can catch that from other people. And you're doing that. And so I think those are two things. And then there's another exercise that I love that I typically do around happiness. But I think you could do this in your life right now. Take out a piece of paper.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1793.348

This was something that that I just stumbled upon with my daughter. I'm not sure I've told you this story.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I don't know. OK, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We share a lot. So I don't know. Our daughter after college graduated completely just depressed.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Sawyer.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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The one that I wrote the book with.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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OK. So she she graduates from college completely depressed.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Oh, my God. Because COVID had blown up two years of college.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And when you're all disappointed because you feel like you missed out on graduation and you missed out on senior year and you missed out on this and she had put on weight and she had been drinking too much and all of a sudden the friends have scattered and she is home and she's going to a job in cybersecurity, which she was not excited about. And so she's just like bummed.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so she had this breakdown. She was crying like crazy. And when she was finally done crying... We sat down and I said, what do you think is going to make me happy? She's like, I don't know. I don't know what's going to make me happy. And I'm like, okay, here's the thing, hon. I think you do. Take out a piece of paper. And you can do this at any moment in your life. It's the greatest exercise.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

1872.715

Draw a line down the center. I want you to now think about a moment in your life where you just felt happier. You don't even have to be like, this is the happiest moment. When were you happier? When did you feel a little bit better? And the first thing that popped out of her mouth was senior year in high school.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And first thought of mine was, well, that's kind of sad because that was like four years ago, but okay. Didn't say that. Because you don't want to hit somebody when they're down. So I said, great. I want you to describe a day in the life. What time did you get up? What did you eat for breakfast? What did you do during the day? Who did you see? What did you do after?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And she said, I, you know, got up at 6.30. I ate breakfast. I went off to school. I was with my friends all day. You know, we then hung out because we had lacrosse practice. I was dating somebody. You know, I would party on the weekends. I was looking forward to going to college. I'm like, great, okay, that looks like I can see why you felt better. All right, let's describe your life now.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Sleep tell one. I wake up hungover. I don't know what to do all day. I feel terrible. I'm out of shape. I'm not exercising. I don't see my friends. I'm not looking forward to everything. I'm like, okay, compare. Your life provides a map to the things that actually make you feel good. You just forgot.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so if you do that exercise, what you are going to see is a roadmap for what you have done at times in your life that actually make you feel like you and lift you up. And I don't remember who said this, it might have been you. I once heard somebody say that if you ever feel stuck and you don't know what to do, the single most important project to take on is yourself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And taking on improving yourself

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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whether that's your health or whether that's learning something new or whether that's finally facing your finances or whether that's to claw back more time on the weekends and take on a project that you've been pushing aside, whether it's launching your YouTube channel or figuring out affiliate marketing or starting a podcast or getting your real estate license or going back to school.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

200.368

Yeah.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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When you take on yourself as a project, you now create a sense of direction that gives your life meaning. And that's always going to lift you up.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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So I think that's how you do it.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You mean like my 20s, my 30s, my 40s, and a lot of my 50s?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I think a lot of my life has felt like that. Really? Don't you guys feel like that?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2057.954

Yes. Yes. Because if you have not worked out yourself and your relationship with yourself... It does not matter what's happening on the outside. That's like the clothes you wear. That's what everybody sees. If you hate yourself, if you still are beating yourself up for the mistakes that you made, if you're holding that over your head like ransom for your happiness, success does not make you happy.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Like, I started too late. Thank God I did, but I started too late in earnest looking at my relationship with myself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Yeah, I think everybody, like, you know, I think that we all make the mistake, and there's a lot, you know, of psychiatrists and psychologists and incredible researchers out there that talk about this. This is not my field of expertise, but I have lived it. in terms of hating myself and holding past mistakes over my head and feeling like I'm a bad person.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so many of us chase achievement and tell ourselves that if we just get a million followers, if we just have a million dollars in the bank, if we just drive the right car, if we just have the right clothes, if we're just in the right friend group, then those things on the outside somehow repair the things on the inside. Those are just the things you're doing.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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How you're feeling about yourself is the game. And the faster you can dedicate time and energy to looking at who you are and what you can learn from the mistakes that you've made and how you forgive yourself for the things that you did that hurt other people and the things that you've done to yourself that hurt you,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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so that you can step fully into the next chapter of your life, feeling like you've got your arm around your own shoulder. Like that is the greatest gift you could ever give to yourself. Yes. For real. Absolutely. I can. I also think back to your question. It's one of the reasons why I am humbled profoundly by what is happening in my career right now. But I'm very clear this is a job.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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My identity is not the podcast for this book, full stop. And it wasn't until I could get good with myself and the kind of person that I am and forgiving myself for the mistakes that I've made in the past, instead of just constantly relentlessly beating myself up over regrets and like waking up every day and feeling like I've done something wrong and trying to prove that.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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It wasn't until I got to the point that I was good with myself that you have this very detached experience about the things that happen out there. It's great. It's a measure of like the impact that you make, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

223.633

Oh, it's a great, that is actually, and you know what? I just learned that when you say actually, it is like a backhanded compliment. So I didn't mean to say that.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And I never, ever, ever even knew that it was possible to be good with yourself. That's how much I trashed myself.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I think that... I didn't realize that I had actually achieved this breakthrough for myself until the success of this project. And I just completely felt detached from how successful this thing was.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2275.604

Yes. And I've been working very, very, very hard to look at the stuff that went down in childhood, the things that I did that were crazy unhealthy coping mechanisms in especially my late teens and my 20s and even into my early 30s.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2297.152

Oh, God, how long do we have? Like 23? I mean, everything, everything from the drugs to the drinking to the stealing to cheating on people to like like I literally will bump into old boyfriends and be like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry you met me. Like when I didn't realize I had childhood trauma and I had been the victim of this and

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You know, I'd repressed all these memories and instead I had a form of ADHD that was not diagnosed. It was a type that makes you like really impulsive and you have really low dopamine. And so like you literally are seeking thrill, seeking behaviors like, you know, shoplifting or, you know, cheating on nice guys. And oh, my God, I'm really sorry. And they're like, ah, great to see you, too.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Yeah, it's actually a good question. I'm sorry.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Oh, my God. I mean, am I the only one that would literally you send a text? You're like, oh, my God, Lewis did not text back. Is Lewis mad at me? Like I have not heard from Lewis in a day. Is something going on with Lewis? Like I must have done something wrong.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so I now know because I've spent enough time just like you have and like you do because you listened to Lewis, hearing from experts and going, oh, wait a minute, hold on a second. Why is my default thought that I've done something wrong? Why am I so hard on myself? Why am I so busy that I cannot actually sit still?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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That wasn't that bad, yeah. Right, because it's a filler word for me. So I don't mean it to be that way. It's a great question because there's no question that this is kind of one of the biggest moments of my life. And I think there are gonna be times in your life where you're getting married or divorced, right? Or you're having a child, or you're giving a eulogy, or you're graduating,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And I didn't even realize you guys how, and it's a double-edged sword because if you're gonna be an entrepreneur and successful in business, you know you gotta have a drive. You know that you're signing up for 80-hour weeks. You know that there is going to be amount of go, go, go that is part of the job and the demand of actually going after something big. That's just what you're signing up for.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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But what I started to realize, and I don't know if any of you have had this epiphany, but you certainly have, I've noticed, that I actually was busy as a default. And I didn't realize this until the pandemic hit and there's nowhere to go.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And then all of a sudden you get all fidgety because you can't run to Target or you can't run to the coffee shop or you can't run to see your friends or you can't run to go over here. And I started to, and then we moved to Vermont and I'm like, oh my God, there are no, there's nowhere to go.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And, you know, my skin is crawling and I started to realize that my resting state was go, go, go, go, go, go. And that sounds exhausting. It was exhausting, and I think most, and actually the research now shows, this comes from Dr. Aditi Noorakar over at Harvard's Beth Israel Deaconess. She runs their massive stress management clinic.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Her research shows that 83% of people are actually living in a state of chronic fight or flight, meaning your amygdala is going. So if you are procrastinating more than ever, if you feel on edge, if you feel more irritable, if you are struggling to focus more than ever, the issue is that your stress response is running you. And that was me.

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Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And if I go back through my history, I had an incident happen in fourth grade where I woke up and I was, we were in a big family like ski trip thing with a bunch of other families. And I woke up, I was sound asleep. So a moment where you're safe and resting. And I woke up to an older kid on top of me.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And I rolled over and I don't remember what happened next. And then the next morning I woke up and I had the sheets over me and my immediate, because I'm in like my 10-year-old body, I immediately sensed something's wrong. And then part of the human wiring when you're little, and I didn't know any of this stuff, you guys, until I'm like in my 40s.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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That the human design is such that when you're a little kid, you don't have something, this is from Dr. Paul Conti at Stanford, who is one of the world's leading experts on trauma. I always thought trauma was like, you've been to war, you've been the victim of violent crime, like something wildly horrific had happened to you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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It was a whole new thing for me to understand that trauma is any experience that actually is remembered in the body in an alarm state. It gets recorded in your nervous system. So this happens to me. I wake up at 10 years old. My first experience is something bad's happened. And then because you're little, you developmentally do not have something called attribution.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2565.573

Attribution is a human being's availability or a human being's ability. to look outside yourself and attribute what you're feeling to somebody else. So little kids, I think this is one of the cruelest things about the human design. Little kids do not have attributions.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2582.524

So when your mom or dad came home, and some people have that experience where you hear a car pull up on the gravel driveway and you freeze a little.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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But if you freeze a little, that's because when some people came home when you were little, you know what happened. And so if you still do that, or if you hear a crack of a beer can open and something like somewhere just makes you tense, that is what I'm talking about. So I, of course, didn't go, that kid's the problem. I did, I did. I am. And do you know, I suppress that memory. I don't know why.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And I recalled it in my early thirties and then I didn't know what to do with it. And I was too embarrassed to talk about it. And then I started to learn more about this in my forties and it suddenly made sense. Oh my God, no wonder I wake up every morning and I think. I've done something wrong or something's wrong because this is what my body's been doing since I was 10 years old.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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This is a stored memory. And if you grew up in a chaotic household or you grew up with parents where you didn't know what mood people are going to be in and so you kind of wake up, this is one of the most common experiences that people have that you don't realize it's actually tied to what it was like to be a kid.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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or you're launching a business, or you're putting your art out into the world, and you recognize that this is a moment. And so as this thing started to take off, and you said this is Mel, I've known you for eight years, and Lewis and I have a very, you can probably already tell, a relationship like an older sister, younger brother. And he was the first person

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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So that was kind of the beginning of all this unwinding and just really going deep and going, I don't want to freaking live like this. And I could have a choice. There are things I could do to just make my body settle.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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It's a great question. So for me, because you talked about memory and story and that stuff, it goes a layer deeper because I think, and I know you're incorporating this with memory, but for me, it was important to have this epiphany moment where like, oh my God, this is about the sensations in my body.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Like, it's about that kind of, am I actually calm, or does my body feel like I am a car at a stoplight, and I'm revving the gas? Yeah. And that was what it felt like to be me all the time. 24-7. 24-7. And so there's a million things you can do. I mean, and I think what's really exciting about it is...

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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What's, you know, kind of sad and exciting is that to think I lived for so long like that because I didn't know. And it didn't take a long time for my body to learn a different way.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Yes.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Okay, so the first awareness that you need is to go, I don't want my life to feel like this anymore.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You need to say, I don't want my life to feel like this. And you could insert, I don't want my job to feel like this. I don't want my body to feel like this when I wake up. I don't want my relationships to feel like this. I don't want my stress like you can just literally saying the way that my life is right now no longer works for me. That's all you need to do.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And then I would write out what exactly is it. And for me it was like I hate waking up and feeling a sense of dread. And then it was like I hate feeling on edge all the time. And then it was, there were just a lot of things. And so when I started to learn about the fact that a lot of this is driven by your nervous system, There are so many things you can do to program your nervous system.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And what works for me, and the good news is there's not one thing that works for everybody. And what I love about having multiple things that you can do is that there are gonna be different days where different things work. And so if you just think about it like, here's how I think about it, because I like metaphors, I like visual stuff, it really helps me think about this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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So I think about your nervous system, like there's electrical wires all through this building that we can't see, right? And the lights are turned on. And I think about those moments when my body starts to do one of these and I go on edge or I feel myself getting a little too ramped up about something. So you know, you're not an idiot. You know when you're calm and when you're present.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You also know when you're super stressed out or you're starting to feel that the engine is revving. The way that I think about it is when my fight or flight engine revving nervous system goes, the lights are blinking.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2908.901

Oh, yeah. Because you feel it. It's like... And so what does that mean? It means there's like some kink in the wire somewhere in my nervous system. Who knows if it's from the kid when I was in fourth grade or something that I don't remember. Who knows where it came from? I just know that it's happening. So now it's my job to find the switch.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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to interview me when I self-published the Five Second Rule book. So this man showed up for me when nobody else knew who I was, I'd never done anything, had no social following, and Lewis kind of plucked me from obscurity and supported me. And I think it's so important to remember the people who supported you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Because if I turn the switch off on a light that's blinking, you know how when you lower dimmer on a blinking light, it's not so annoying anymore? All of a sudden, it's a little calm. That switch is the vagus nerve. Vagus nerve runs from your seat through your major organs, through your vocal cord, all the way to the top of your head. This is the on-off switch for your nervous system.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2950.008

It's how you switch between the blinking light to turn it down a little bit and now everything's steady. And there's a bazillion things you can do. You can hum. Like you can't have a panic attack in church because as you're singing a hymn and your vocal cords are vibrating, it's actually what they call toning the vagus nerve. Cold plunging is a way to tone the vagus nerve.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2972.655

Cold plunging also works because you are putting yourself in a setting, whether you're in the shower or the bathtub or the ice bath, where all of a sudden the lights start to blink. You get in that cold water, it's like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then as you breathe, you're hitting that dimmer switch and you're bringing it down. Meditation, another way that you can do it.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

2992.952

There are so many, like just go to chat GTP. And say, I would like, act like the world's best psychologist and tell me what to do twice a day to tone the vagus nerve and actually calm my nervous system. And there you'll have the answer. And then you're going to, that's not going to work for me. I'm not going to do it because I'm discouraged. And then you're now going to use 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I'm going to do it.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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It's called marriage. It's called marriage. Parenting. Work.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Yeah, you mean like all the emails? Have you ever read those emails? Like, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. They're like, best. Send, you know what I mean? Like when you do that?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

3059.418

Oh, yeah.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Have you heard of something called the let them theory?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Do I? Yes, of course. Well, because other people are annoying and they stress you out and they worry you. And so this is the problem. We all have a fundamental need for control, right? It makes you feel safe. I need to feel in control of like even even like Lewis. I'll give you an example. You ready?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Okay, so Lewis comes back as you guys were sharing.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Yeah, I'm like, I'm great. I'm great. And so literally like 11 minutes go by.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And now I can't control him.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And I'm starting to feel it. So I'm like, okay, should I sit? And I'm like, let him. Let him. I'm standing backstage. And I'm now starting to get like, okay, what's happening? I can't control what's happening out here. So let him do that.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And let me just stand back here and take a deep breath and be so proud of my friend who is here in Boston, in the town where we raised our kids, with all of you amazing people. But how many times have you felt yourself getting stressed in the grocery store line or stressed on the Mass Pike? I mean, how irritating is that when they close the tunnel? What idiots are painting the tunnel on a money?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so it's been an interesting experience because I know that this is way bigger than me. I mean, I'm obviously, this is not a new idea that you stress yourself out when you focus on things that are outside your control. Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, Stoicism, Buddhism, the Serenity Prayer.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Let them. Right. Right. So. Yes. See, what happens is when other people's behavior is annoying or bothers you or stresses you out or upsets you, it makes you feel out of control. Yes. Nothing makes me feel more out of control than when I need a red eye from Dunkin' Donuts and the line is really long in the morning. You know what I'm saying? And so I...

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Just you tend to then make this mistake when other people are upsetting you of controlling what they're doing.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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My whole life, I still do it. That's why I need the let them theory to stop myself from doing it. We all do it because we have a need to be in control and other people's behavior often makes you feel out of control. If I think back to some of my relationships before I met Chris, like when somebody breaks up with you and then you're the loser that's trying to control what happened, bring them back.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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like hang around and make yourself better looking so that they'll take you back. But that's a form of control.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Right. Because you're trying to take away the pain by making them do something. And it took me a very long time. I'm clearly a slow learner about these life lessons.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Well, my mother will tell you she's been telling me to do this my entire life. Sure. And she even has a pillow. She's like, I came up with the let me part. It's this pillow where she's like, pull up your big girl panties and deal with it. You know, the joke about this whole thing is you and I both created content like stop caring about what people think.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You know, the concepts have been out there forever. But I'll tell you something. The time that it hit me like a freaking sledgehammer. Because you can talk about stuff all you want. You can read concepts all you want. Like, do you know how many books I've read about psoasism? My husband is a Buddhist. I can't let anything go, for God's sakes. Like, I understand these.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I've read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning is one of my favorite books of all time. Like that what's happening out there doesn't have to control what's happening in here, that your power is in your attitude and your response to things. They're not new ideas. I've even talked about these. I've interviewed experts on these things.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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When it hit me, like a ton of bricks, you know, when you're ready, the teacher appears. I don't know who said, when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and you better be careful because it's going to be really annoying who shows up.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And who showed up for me, and there's such irony to this, is because this was at my, the power of this hit me at my son's high school prom because I was a micromanaging freak. Have any of you ever sent anybody to a prom or had a mother who controlled you at your prom, right? So I just was like all upset about things and like, okay, you gotta bring a corsage. She doesn't want a corsage.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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As you start to use this in your life, you probably remember things your grandparents said to you or things that your parents said around the kitchen table or that you heard at a sermon or at synagogue. And so it's sort of powerful because it's not, it's reminding you of something you already know. And so as this started to take off and resonate, And I'm realizing this is one of those moments.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I know better. You've never been to a prom. You need to bring a corsage. We get to the pre-photo party and... We take the photos, and then all of a sudden, it starts to rain. And all these kids are like, well, we think we're going to go in the rain. I'm like, you're not going in the rain. Look at these new fancy sneakers that you got. And they're like, we're going to go to this taco.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You're going to a taco bar? Your tux is going to get wet. Your sneakers are going to get wet. And my daughter was home. And here's the irony of this. You ready? When my daughter's prom happened, She was such a raging, controlling, dare I say, entitled piece of work. That we had a knockdown argument at a hair salon in Natick.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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The day of the, oh yeah, because we had this fray tan and the nails and the whole thing. And she got her hair done. I mean, this is like a thousand... I can't say, dollars. And she doesn't like the way the woman made the makeup. I lost my mind, Lewis, screaming at her. I stormed out of the salon. Your father's gonna have to drive. You better call, and I left. Yes. Uh-huh.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And her father had to go get her. Wow. Yes. And he had to pay for this stuff. Oh, my God. Because I was so angry at how much of an attitude she had. I'm like, this is a prom. It's not like, come on, you're not on the cover of Vanity Fair. Right. You're going to a public high school prom. But I'm the idiot paying for this stuff. So, of course, I'm... So, anyway, it's a whole story.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Anyway, okay, so...

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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This is the irony. So guess who the teacher is in this story? That daughter. Because she's home, and I'm starting to go like, you can't go out in the sneakers, and this, that, and the other. My husband's standing there. My mother-in-law is there. My son is there. He's kind of inching away from me. And my daughter reaches over and grabs me.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And she has fake nails, so it goes in the bicep, which basically, I think, snaps me out of the ha and into the moment. And she's like, Mom, you're being annoying. If they want to go outside, let them. Once they get to see it, let them. It's like this cascade of let them, let them, let them, let them, let them. And then she's like, it's their prom, not yours. Let them do what they want.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And then she like released the nails. And Lewis, honest to God, all I said to myself was like, Why the hell do I care about this? And it's not like at that point I'm like, I'm going to write a book. That's not what happened. And so I literally just started to say those words. I'm at Home Depot. You ever been to Home Depot in the garden center on a nice weekend?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And they got one cash register open, and you got the flatbed, and there's like five things in front of you, and it's like beep, beep, beep. Anybody got a price on these impatience? You're like, oh my God, they're $1.99! God, I gotta get to Dunkin' Donuts, I'm ready to kill somebody! Right? And so, you feel the volcano, and I'm just like, okay, Mel, let them. And that was how it started.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I have missed out on so much of my life because I was anxious or afraid or felt like I was undeserving. I was not able to be present and allow it in that I was like, I am not missing this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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That's how it started. And, you know, then we did a podcast episode about it as I started to use it. And, you know, it started to go. I just like it became a thing. And then as the podcast episode took off, people started writing articles about it and sending in tattoos.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And the last time I had seen anything with tattoos was the five second rule, because I've received 10,000 tattoos with five, four, three, two, one and rockets. And so I just was like, wow. And the truth is, I don't like to write books. I'm dyslexic. I have ADHD. I thought, OK, well, this is like one of those little books. This is like a book, like a graduation speech book.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Like, you know the books that you read on the toilet that are like you buy them at like Urban Outfitters or something? You know what I'm saying? Like, maybe we could do one of those. And then we just started digging it and it was so deep and rich and the stoicism and the themes like when we when I went on the it was what's been so incredible about this experience.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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is that I feel like your grandparents and all of our ancestors are part of this. Like when I sat with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. 's son, Martin, and his wife, Andrea, as we were talking about this on their podcast, My Legacy podcast, he literally looked at me and said, Mel, this is my father's teaching. Because no response doesn't mean you're giving in. Choosing peace is not surrender.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Choosing peace is a form of power and hope.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so to see this reflected back in the ways that you make it your own, whether it's the shirts that you're making or it's the let them for realtors, let them for parents, let them for entrepreneurs. Because if you're gonna build a business, you gotta learn to let people not do business with you. You gotta learn to let people not understand what you're doing.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And so I asked somebody for some advice and they gave me this kind of visual where they said, I want you to just imagine that you're on a plane and the plane is moving 500 miles an hour at velocity and you're going to feel like this at times in your life. And what's weird about these moments is that there's this sense of acceleration, but there's also this real slowing down.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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You gotta learn to let your family have their opinions. And you gotta let me stay focused on the simple things you are not doing right now that you know you need to do that will actually create everything that you want. And the fact is, and this brings me to the second thing, after, I know there's like 55 things, I'm sorry. Take away, take away!

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Is that I said that the two obstacles, only two that you have, one is when you're discouraged. The second is when you doubt your capability. And the only reason why I think you doubt your capability is because you're too concerned about what other people are going to think about it. That's the biggest source of your doubt. And you don't even realize it. Because you stop when you hesitate.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And the only thing you're considering is how other people are going to react or what their mood's going to be or what their expectations are. And so when you recognize, wow, I could go to chat GTP. Write my business plan and give me the plan. And it can tell me day by day what to do every day this year to lead to a certain result that it is right there.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And now all I have to do is I got to let other people do what they're going to do. And then I got to let me remind myself every morning when I wake up, even when I don't feel like it, damn it, I'm going to do it because that's how I create the things that I want in my life.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Oh, well, today I'm grateful for you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Grateful for you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Grateful for you. Lewis is a great friend. You know, one thing that I will tell you about, like, really good friends. Like, you would look at Lewis and I, and you would think we're competitors, right, because we're in the same industry. Like, one of the greatest things about Lewis is he is, like, the world's greatest supporter.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And the mistake that everybody makes, I learned this too late as well, and I'm so grateful that I know this now. You might be surprised to know that so many of us that have podcasts are actually really great friends. Mm-hmm. And, you know, but it's not, of course.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Not everyone. But so the thing that's important, though, I think it was on Jay's podcast. Was it Selena Gomez that said this? What did she say? I didn't. Well, I think that's who he said. I just, you know, I think that this is who, like, when he shared this sentiment, because I'm like, Jay, you're right.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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He said, the mistake that people make is you actually think the other people that own restaurants or who are in real estate or other entrepreneurs that you're competing against them. Actually, they should be your best friends, and here's why. Because your family has no idea what you're going through.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Chris, Martha, they have no... Well, Martha has a podcast, and she's also got a huge career and is kind of in an adjacent space, but even still... Like my husband, Martha, doesn't understand the day-to-day pressures because they're not doing what we're doing.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And the mistake that you make is you think you're the only one and then you think your friends and your family understand and they're never gonna understand. It's the people that you think you're competing against who will actually be your greatest allies and your biggest forms of support in the business that you're building. So seek them out, cheer for them when you see them winning.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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There's a reason why you see restaurants kind of on the same blocks. It's because when they put them on the same blocks, they actually all do better. Because people that go to restaurants like going to other restaurants. And so it's a mistake to think that if you're opening up a fitness club, that somehow the yoga studio down the street is somehow competent. No, no, no, no, no, no.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Because people get tired of yoga. And so if you're cheering for those guys and you show up at their grand opening and you're shouting them out on social, guess what they do? They do the same thing for you. And so please seek out the people that are doing things that you admire. Cheer for them.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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if you can allow yourself to be present. Like if you've ever been present for a child being born, if you've ever stood at the end of a Nile as your partner is about to walk in. It's a moment. It's a moment. And so I have just visualized myself kind of in an airplane that's moving 500 miles an hour. But my job is to sit in the seat. And to have my water or something a little harder.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Seek out people and support people that are doing the similar kinds of businesses because you're going to find you have so much more in common. And people are more interested in helping you than you think.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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No, you know why? Because it would be the coolest thing in the world to see one of my closest friends dethrone me and take the number one spot. So please, take by Lewis's book. That would be the greatest thing in the world.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And look out the window and occasionally check out the view.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

429.219

And I think that it's a useful thing because I've also, in the middle of this, things are going on in life and things are going on with my kids and with my husband.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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Everything's not perfect, but I've even noticed that when stuff feels like it's flying sideways, just having this meditation to say, okay, my life can feel like it's moving super fast, but if I just take a breath and remind myself that I don't need to, get caught up in this.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

462.735

I can really just stay present in the moment, and that's what's helped me to kind of allow it in and also just realize it's just so much bigger than me. This is tapped into something.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I think there are times in life where there's a lot of negativity, whether it's in your relationship or your family or your community or the world at large, and if you pay attention, there are corresponding positive messages. And I feel that right now in particular, I mean, you all showed up. What night is it tonight? Is it a Monday?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

496.041

On a Monday night.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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See, I'm not that present. A Tuesday night to be at an inspiring event. Because you're the kind of person that wants to grow and learn and surround yourself with other people who do. That is a big deal. Like there are millions of people 20 miles from here, millions and millions, but you chose to be here. That says something about you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

524.48

And so I also feel that, you know, in moments where things feel overwhelming in life, that being somebody that is putting something positive out and showing up for people is more important than ever. And you're doing that by being here, and you're doing that by what you do. And so I think kind of you're able to receive it if you're present and if you realize it's almost never about you.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

587.023

I don't think you do. I really don't. No, I'll tell you why, because that question presumes that I somehow was self-aware enough in the middle of the stuff that you're doing to actually think that I need to prepare myself for something else. Now, it's gonna sound like I'm contradicting myself. So I'm not.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

613.924

Hold on a second. So if you go back in time, right? Like one of my favorite things to do, because personally, I personally believe, whether we're talking business, or you're talking building a social media following, or you're talking any kind of art that you wanna take off, any kind of money you wanna make, I literally believe, Lewis, that success is a matter of not quitting.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

636.616

Like that's what it comes down to. It really does. And, you know, more than anything else, like I just was like a tenacious person. I'm just like, I'm not going to stop here. And there were so many things that I did not do well. Not at all. I mean, like in terms of like just the talk show that literally got canceled because it sucked. Oh my God, I love you. Thank you for being there.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

664.839

I'll blame the fact that it was canceled on me and not on you, okay?

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

671.752

Well, we taped like 174.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

676.216

That's true. But they were airing it. Well, it can really stink.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

688.905

No, you've got to look at the ratings. People were not watching. And when they don't watch, you don't make money.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

697.372

Okay, now, so hold on, let's build on this, right? So here's the thing that I developed out of survival. So there are the things that you do out of survival that turn out to be brilliant.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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And when I was creating some of the things that I'm about to share with you, they were not because I was brilliant, it was because I was trying to keep myself going, especially in times when I needed to pay bills and I needed to get out of debt. And so whenever I felt like quitting, I would literally have a pep talk with myself and I would say, This is not how my story is going to end.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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I just refuse to believe it. And I refuse to believe that this is how it ends. And so I would say those kinds of things to myself, even though I felt like this is the end and I just made the stupidest decision I could have ever made or I just lost more money or that didn't work out. Just another twist, another. And so that's one thing that I would do.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

758.853

The second thing that I would do, Lewis, is there's this thing that I do with time traveling where I go to the past and I go to the future. So it's easy in this moment. I don't know where you are in your business. I don't know where you are in your career or your life.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

774.462

But it is easy to sit in this moment and to look backwards and to make sense of all of the twists and turns that have happened to you. Right? And... to say to yourself, okay, I can see the lessons. I can see how I grew. I can see how that made me stronger. It is a very important skill to take that ability of making sense of the past and actually project it forward.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

806.549

And this is how you develop faith in yourself and your capability to see yourself through the twists and turns that life is gonna demand of you. And so as you sit in this moment,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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The skill to develop from this point forward is to look ahead and tell yourself that I have faith that this moment too, just like every moment I can see in the past is but a brick on the path of my life that is leading me towards something I cannot see yet, and I have faith that whatever this experience is delivering, no matter how much it blows,

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

846.115

no matter how painful it is, no matter how much I don't deserve this, that this, too, will be part of the thing that gets me to something even greater. And that is how I built what you're talking about. But never in a million years like I am. I have I have big aspirations and goals, just like everybody here. That's why you're here on a Tuesday night.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

872.957

You're investing in yourself, you're learning, you're surrounding yourself with incredible people that want to do the same. Even though I had amazing goals, like, this is completely just blown apart what I ever thought was possible for myself. It's crazy.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

892.564

Completely shocked and humbled by it all.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

904.008

Like, I just had always thought... that it would be great to have a book that I don't, like, I don't even know. Like, I wasn't even thinking like 10 million copies of this or the other. Like, who sells that many books? Who's even reading books? Right? I mean, I, so I just never thought, because it's bigger than that. It is something that has transcended the 322 pages.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

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It is, it has caught wind at a moment in time where everybody needs help. focusing on what's in your control so that you can focus on what's meaningful and so that you can protect yourself from outside stressors that are draining your time and energy. Like never more in my life has this been more important or more relevant.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

958.15

And so I never, ever, Lewis, thought that I would be, I never thought that I would just be somebody that this many people knew about. or that my work would be this public. I know the impact of the five second rule. I know how that has spread around the world.

The School of Greatness

Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

976.179

We know of more than a thousand people that have taken the time to write to us who did not die by suicide because they used the five second rule in a moment to stop themselves and ask for help. And so I thought that is the most extraordinary thing that could ever happen to a person, to put something out into the world that actually helps people and saves lives.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1007.409

And if you don't know what the skill is that you need, whether it's communicating or impulse control or it is the ability to learn in the way that your brain is being asked to learn, these are all things that can be addressed. If you don't know what the skill is that's missing, you will continue to struggle.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And we live in a world where if you're struggling or you're presenting challenging behavior, we punish you.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1032.939

Or you punish yourself.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1036.101

Correct. And so the let them theory is the exact same thing because it is a skill to be able to identify what's in your control and what's not in your control. And it's a skill anybody can learn. And you need to learn it because human beings at our core, we have a fundamental hardwired need for control. It makes us feel safe.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1060.049

So if you really think about this, you need to feel in control of your decisions. You need to feel in control of your environment. You need to feel in control of what's going to happen in the future or at work today. And we also try to make ourselves feel safe by what? Controlling the people around us. And this is in all of us.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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i have this need to be in control you have this need to be in control this is why the parent-child relationship is so irritating right because you're the parent or you're the adult child and you have a need to be in control of yourself but your parent only feels safe if they're in control of you and that sets up a problem for every relationship that you're in

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Because if I can't control you, it makes me feel unsafe. But if I try to control you, Lewis, then you're going to feel annoyed. And what happens in the body, and I write about this in the book, because the first thing you're going to learn when you learn this skill of identifying what's not in your control and removing it as an obstacle in your life.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

111.3

that is in everybody's way, that is stealing your time, is stealing your energy, and you don't even realize it. And there's a totally different way to go through life. Your single most valuable resources are time and energy. Because where you spend your time and what you pour your energy into determines the quality of your life.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1126.049

Because when you stop giving power to things that aren't in your control, guess what you get back? Time, energy, power, confidence, peace, joy. You realize you do have agency and that that power isn't over there, it's in here. And you have the exact same thing. And when you start to tap into that for yourself, it's just liberating.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And then you start to see the second thing that I write about in the book, which is that there are four ways you're screwing up your relationships because you're trying to control people. And any psychologist will tell you that

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1162.865

when you try to control something that you can't control it just creates stress and frustration for you and it creates tension and misunderstanding and distance in your relationships because if you have a need to control and i have a need to control right and i try to pressure you to do something lewis your brain is wired not to feel motivated but to actually resist the change I want you to make.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1195.415

No, no. And so it was fascinating also to see that for 54 years, I was actually operating the opposite of human wiring when it came to relationships.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Wow, really? Well, we all are. We all are.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Well, there's a balance with it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1243.897

Of course. You can't just be, let them.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1248.74

They can stay up all night. Let them. No, no. Because this is a book about adult relationships. And we make a huge distinction, because when you're an adult and you have a child, Or you're a caregiver or a coach. No, you are a, well, there are certain things you need to let them do.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But there are certain guardrails that are your responsibility. For example, a child cannot regulate their own emotions. Right. You have to, it's your responsibility to teach a child how to regulate their own emotions. And the problem is that no adults know how to do this.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1286.875

Correct. Which is why another philosophy and rule in the Let Them Theory book is that from this point forward, go through life and see every adult is an eight year old in a big body. And when you do that, something fascinating happens. Instead of being scared of people, who are challenging or narcissistic or passive or immature, you actually can let them be and you feel compassion.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

129.685

And what I started to notice very, very, very quickly, like within 24 hours, is that the reason why I didn't have a lot of time is because I was spending it getting worked up about stupid things. The reason why my energy was so drained is because I was allowing other people's behavior or things that were happening around me to actually drain my energy.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And you also realize it's not your job to make excuses for somebody who is immature. It's not your job to change somebody who has a narcissistic personality style. It's not your job to take away somebody's disappointment or sadness. You need to let them. And when you do it, it's the ultimate boundary because then you separate your emotions and energy from someone else.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And then you say the second part, which is let me. Let me double down on my values and let me see this person very clearly. Because if I see this person's immature behavior, and I visualize the eight-year-old version of them, what I realize is that this is a person who was just never taught the skill of understanding and managing their emotions in a responsible and healthy way.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And I can't teach them that.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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It's honestly the same thing.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Okay, great. Excellent question.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Correct, but you're only allowing it if you see it happening and you make excuses for it and you stay. Yes. So if you let them reveal who they are. And so this is a very important point. You are not allowing people to abuse you.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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In fact, what the let them theory does is it helps you wake up perhaps for the first time and actually see somebody very clearly as they are and not make an excuse because people's behavior is the truth. People can say anything that they want, but if you watch their behavior, someone tells you exactly who they are and they tell you what their priorities are and where you fall in those priorities.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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So let them reveal who they are. And if you are in a situation with any human being and you let them be who they are, and they reveal to you that they are emotionally abusive, or narcissistic, or they don't call back, or they keep saying that they're gonna stop drinking and they don't, or they promise that they're not gonna raise their voice, but they do.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And saying let them became this lever I could pull any moment where I felt my time and attention.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Let them, because your power is not in trying to change them, because you can never change another human being. Human beings only change when they feel like it, And they are not going to change for you. People only change when they feel like changing for themselves. And so trying to make someone else change or wishing that they would change, that's not where your power is.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Don't put your time and energy there. Let someone reveal who they are. And then say the second part, which is let me. Let me remind myself that I always have power because I can leave any conversation. I can leave any interview. I can leave any date. I can leave any relationship. I can leave any dining room table. Any job. Any job. Anytime I choose.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1548.34

And so, you know, I also say this knowing the research. I used to work at Domestic Violence Hotline. And when I was a public defender, we had a tremendous amount of training in crisis intervention. And I know you've covered this topic a lot and you understand trauma and have written about it extensively. And I say this in abusive relationships. This is a life-changing tool for you to say let them.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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getting sucked towards something that truly wasn't worth my time and energy or didn't matter or more importantly beyond my control and as you talk about all the time and as lots of people talk about it's not about what's happening it's about how you respond to it and the problem that i've always had with stoicism or letting it go or principles that are about being more peaceful and boundaries is that i never knew how to apply it like let's take the concept of let it go

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And here's why. On average, at least the research I saw last, it took a woman seven times of leaving to leave for good in a domestic. And here's why, I'll tell you why. The reason why is if you look at brain circuitry, And you look at all that research that scientists have done on addiction. And there's this famous study. I'm going to get completely wrong.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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It's part of my brand to just like kind of miss some of the details, get the gist of it. So they put these poor rats in two different cages. And in one of the cages, they give the rats like all the sugar that they want or heroin or I don't even know what they were doing. And it's on tap. And of course, you're like tap, tap, tap. But then they kind of get a little like tired of it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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In this cage, they put the rats in with the same sugar or heroin or whatever, but they gave it to them randomly. So you would tap it once and get your hit, and then you'd go back and it's water. And then you hit it again, and then maybe it comes again. And then you hit it a couple more times and it's water, and then you hit it again. It's called intermittent rewards.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1642.431

It is the exact same mechanism as pulling a slot machine.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Like sometimes you win and then you got to pull it 23 and then you win again. And it's that lack of predictability, which, by the way, is the exact same mechanism with social media. Because when you're scrolling, you know, for those of us that have been caught doom scrolling, this is not your fault. The algorithm is designed this way.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1666.002

It's designed to feed you things that are like a dopamine hit, and then you get a bunch of boring crap. But if you ever noticed, as you start to talk to yourself, I got to go to bed. I really need to go to bed. And then you get one thing like, okay, and then you're on for another. It's intermittent reward.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1681.63

And so in the cycle of an emotionally or physically or sexually abusive relationship, what happens is the relationship cycle is one where it's calm. And then the abuse. And then the apology. And then it's calm. And the fact that it's not always like it negatively the whole time makes you do what we all do when we're on social media. I know that I need to do something, but...

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

1713.767

Yes. Yeah. And so you.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Correct. And the world's leading experts. You've had Dr. Romani Diversa on a number of times here, leading expert in the world on narcissism. She has said that the single biggest problem in a narcissistic relationship, whether it's your mother or the person that you're dating or a brother or sister or friend, is the hope that they will change. Oh, God, it's so hard.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Likelihood is not.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But...

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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i think that you can hold out the belief that people can change and at the same time you can live in the reality of who they actually are right now yes and that's the power of letting them you're not letting them do anything to you you're letting them reveal exactly who they are through their behavior and for the first time you are not explaining it away and that is the biggest issue that people also face in dating

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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We're so terrified to be single, you know, and I get it like I I've been married a long time. I have two daughters that are one is single, the others in a relationship and the obsession. with not wanting to be the single friend.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Like how awesome it is to have plans on the weekend, like the fear that you have that you're not going to meet the one. And the problem is that we are so married to the fantasy that we chase the potential and you don't see the reality of the person that you're actually with.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And the explaining a way of behavior is the single biggest reason why you'll waste years of your life or months of your life with the wrong person. Because you're up here going, well, if they'd only lose some more weight or they'd be more motivated or they didn't watch golf all weekend or treated me nicer than maybe. No, this is exactly who this person is.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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YOU HAVE TO. THAT'S THE LET ME PART.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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I don't want to let it go. Why don't you? Well, I'll tell you why. It feels like I'm losing. When somebody says to you, Lewis, you just got to let it go, they're basically saying you lose, so stop worrying about it. That person won. You got to let it go.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes. That's exactly right, Lewis. And here's the cool part. No human being is perfect. Of course not.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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we can all learn skills yes and so whose responsibility is it to create the relationship that you deserve see i think it's your responsibility and the way that you do it is you allow someone you let them be who they are and then you come back to yourself and anything that's annoying you're frustrating you or that you're griping to your friends about whether it's work or it's a friendship or your parents or whatever that's the let me part yes

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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let me either stop about this, because that's the only way that you know how you accept it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Right?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Or let me sit down and be the emotionally mature one and make the request. So Chris has done this with me. So I'll play this out this way. So you're good friends with my husband, Chris, and you know Chris, he's like Mr. Men's Retreat, deaf doula, zen, amazing man. And if you go into our bathroom, Louis, Chris's counter.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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It drives you crazy, doesn't it? Mine is just like Martha's. It looks like the CBS aisle tipped over on top of it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

2001.763

It drives Chris bananas. He has learned to let me. Now. Now I let her on her side. Correct. Correct. But when the brush comes onto your side, which I do too, because I walk over and I put it down and I walk back. So here's the thing, though, if it really starts to annoy you.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yeah. You're not going to be able to control her. Right. You are starting to get annoyed. So now, you know, it is actually draining some energy. The power is not in controlling her. It's in your response. So you go to Chris comes to me and says, Mel, I love you. The real trigger for Chris is cardboard boxes. Oh, yeah, because what happens is they show up.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

2043.287

And then Chris is Mr. Slice them down, flatten them, stack them. Yes, stack them in the garage in a certain way. They got all stacked up. He likes to put one in boxes. I don't know. And he would ask me, when the boxes come and you enter them, please slice them. And I would do it some of the time. But most of the time what I do is I just stack them next to the door to the garage.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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I mean to come down at the end of the day. So Chris would come in and he'd see them and he has asked me multiple times. So of course it stresses him out and pisses him off and annoys him.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But what he did is he sat me down because there's a big difference between what you intend and the impact it has in another person.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And I'm like, now spit it out, Louis.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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I said an assistant. There you go. It's true, though. But what he said to me was this. He said, every time I see those cardboard boxes there, it's like a giant middle finger to me.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Correct. You think I'm your maid. and i have asked about this and when he explained it that way what happened is it tapped into my intrinsic motivation because i value how he feels of course and when he communicated that way and he let me know now i am motivated to do it because i know why it matters And this is really important.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Well, it's a great question.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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When you communicate something to someone that it matters to you and they don't do it, you have to let them. And here's why.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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It depends on the issue.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But if I repeatedly then ignore it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Because that actually happened to me. So I had two things happen in my company, one where we had a contractor that literally stole our database and lied about a campaign that we thought we were paying for that was going on and it never actually happened and they presented fake data. Now, I have to let them because it happened and I didn't know until I discovered it too late.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

2191.999

Well, Chris has to choose.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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to either talk to me again, or if it's a big enough issue, Lewis, is this the right relationship?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Do I want to be with somebody who I sit down and repeatedly share my feelings and my needs with, and then they do not do anything?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And the behavior shows that I don't matter.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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It's deeply personal.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And this is why it's important to understand where your control is, because what's ultimately going to happen is if you have an issue with somebody in your life, whether it's your parents or your boss or whatever, and you've addressed it in a very mature and loving way and nothing has changed, it's likely not going to. And then it comes back to you. Let me choose what to do next. Yes.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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What do I deserve? And if it's somebody who repeatedly, like let's take it to the context of dating, because this was an example that's kind of funny and relatable. Sure. But if you're in a relationship with somebody and you want to take it to the next level and they don't want to put a label on it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Is like, are those the table scraps you're going to take?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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If they're sneaking out early in the morning, like some stray cat, is that actually, seriously, is that the love you deserve?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But you know what I'm saying?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Because what we then do is we go up into our minds and we start explaining away the behavior.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes. And if only I can be closer to him. If only I can spend more time with him. Maybe if I learn how to play golf. Maybe if I like that now you're changing yourself. Changing yourself. Because you refuse to let the person reveal who they are.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But there's a second part to this theory. Because, of course, I'm going to get upset and I'm going to be pissed off. But allowing myself to stay in that state of rage, what I know is it doesn't allow me to leverage this part of my brain to then respond. And that's the second part of this theory that I discovered, which is once you say let them, you detach from the thing you can't control.

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Because the other thing that happened to me, Lewis, and I think I've shared this story with you before, is that I was also the victim of a big wire fraud scam, $350,000. A scam that's very common in the real estate business where somebody breaks into a server and just intercepts emails and then changes banking information.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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No kidding. But by the time I figured it out, the money was gone.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Gone. And the more upset that you get about something, the faster you lose your ability to think critically.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And so when you say let them, it's like allowing something without allowing it. It's recognizing that there is something that happened or there is a person in your life that's doing something that's pissing you off or annoying you or stressing you out or worrying you. But you have no control over that. And so yes, react.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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But at some point, you got to go let them because it helps you recognize and accept the reality and detach. It's already happened. And detach, most importantly, from what you can't control.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Let me. Let me choose what I'm going to do. And when you say, let me, you do something crazy powerful. First of all, you take responsibility. for how you're going to address this. And let's look at the word responsibility. It's the ability to respond. And when you say, let me, you are reminding yourself that in life, there are only three things, Lewis, you can control. Only three things.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Number one, you can control what you think next. Number two, you can control what you do or you don't do next and oftentimes doing nothing is way more powerful than doing something and number three you can control what you're going to do with the emotions that you feel and when you say let me in any situation You detach from the things you cannot control.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And you remind yourself that no matter what is happening around me or to me, I always have power. Because through my thoughts and through my actions and through the processing of my emotion, I can positively impact or change what's happening for the better. And if you allow yourself to constantly get stressed out or waste your time,

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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by managing what you will never be able to control, you will never see the power that you have. And so this gets back to the question that you asked, which is what is the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way? And the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way is the power you unknowingly give to other people. And there are four main ways that you're doing it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And it is blocking your ability to be happy. It is blocking your ability to make decisions that are aligned with what you want. It is blocking your ability to leverage your time for the things that you care about. It is keeping you from pursuing the things that you're capable of doing in your life. And it is also draining your time.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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I want to show you. What do you say?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And the four big ways that you've turned other people into a problem Number one, you allow them to stress you out. Number two, you're so concerned about what everybody else thinks. It is a massive obstacle in your way because you consider it before you do anything. Number three, you navigate your entire life based on other people's emotional reactions.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

4890.132

Wow.

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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and you allow emotional immaturity in other people and in yourself to dominate how you move through your day. And number four, your habit of chronically looking over there and comparing yourself makes you feel like life is unfair

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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No, I remember.

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that other people are against you or competing with you and all four of those things are simply not true and you can use the let them theory to remove all four of those obstacles and when you no longer allow people to stress you out you have more energy when you allow people you let them think negative thoughts about you because you recognize you can't control what they think anyway

The School of Greatness

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It frees you up to focus on what's within your control, which is what you think about yourself. And when you operate in a way, Lewis, that makes you proud of yourself, you authentically don't really care if people have a negative opinion.

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What's interesting is that we all think we know what is holding us back. And we describe it, whether it's money or time or I'm exhausted or I'm stuck or it's my past or it's my mindset. And it's not that at all. If you're not happy, if you don't have what you want in life, if you're exhausted, tired, stuck, or overwhelmed, the problem isn't what you think it is. In fact, the problem isn't you.

The School of Greatness

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When it comes to emotional immaturity, so many of us are driven by guilt, or we're scared to disappoint people, or we don't want to let people down, or we think it's our job to make other people happy. And when you organize your life around managing another adult's feelings, you become the parent to another human being. And there's a much easier way. Let them. Let them be disappointed.

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Let them be upset.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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let them be sad that you're doing something that they wanted you to do but you're not going to do it let them be an adult and let them deal with themselves and the fourth one is when you spend tons of time comparing yourself to other people and look comparison is normal comparing yourself to other people isn't the problem it's what you're doing with it that is and so using the let them theory you got to let other people be successful

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Because right now what's happening is when you see somebody else succeeding or happy or they're pregnant or they're engaged or they're doing whatever, they're building some big brand, and you tell yourself, oh, my God, they've already done what I wanted to do. I'm too late. Because they've done it, now I can't do it. You actually are working against the laws of the world.

The School of Greatness

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Because success and happiness and joy and friendship and love, these are all things that are in limitless supply. And the truth about life is that you're not actually playing against other people. You're playing with them.

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And when you turn other people into a problem and you look at other people's success or happiness or the things that they've achieved or experienced in their lives as evidence that you won't have it, you're working against the natural order of things. Other people can't actually block your way. Only you can do that. And if you let people show you the way,

The School of Greatness

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If you let them inspire you, if you let them reveal the formula to success, now you're learning from people instead of turning people into a problem that is blocking you from doing what you're capable of.

The School of Greatness

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And those are the four ways that you have turned other people into a problem and you have allowed other people and your desire to control them or to manage them or the sense that you have this responsibility to make everybody else happy. And you've forgotten about the one person whose job it is that you are supposed to be making happy, which is you. Kind of cool, huh?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Well, it started at the prom, which is crazy. Was this two years ago?

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Everything.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Everything. I didn't see this. See, it's sort of like you and I both have dyslexia. I didn't discover that I had dyslexia and ADHD until I was 47. Right. And I found out the way most women do. My son was getting evaluated for school and I'm like, oh, I think I have the same thing here. Yeah. And if you don't know the problem, then you have no access to solving it.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And for years, Lewis, I thought that the primary thing that I was struggling with was anxiety. Because when you have dyslexia or ADHD and it's not diagnosed or addressed, the thing that rises to the surface is anxiety. And anxiety wasn't my problem. Anxiety was a symptom.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Oh, well, it's very simple. Like if you're sitting in a classroom and your brain can't do what everybody else can do and you're falling behind.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Of course, because you're uncertain. And anxiety, in my mind, is just a situation where you feel like there's an unknown, right? And you add in this belief that you're not capable of figuring it out.

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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The problem is the power you are unknowingly giving to other people. There are...

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And the problem is that when something feels overwhelming or you don't know or things feel a little out of control, we focus on that and then we start worrying versus focusing on the fact that you're actually capable of figuring something out. That's all that anxiety is. It's a separation with the power inside you. And then, of course, your body has this alarm system.

The School of Greatness

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And when something is happening in the moment or it's about to happen and you get nervous because you're uncertain or you're afraid of how things are going to turn out or you're afraid that the teacher is going to call on you. Right. The alarm system in your body goes off and then you separate. yourself from your power because you always have the ability to figure something out.

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And for somebody who starts to struggle chronically with anxiety, what ends up happening is that you start to when you feel nervous in your body, which, by the way, it is a mentally healthy response. If you're a dyslexic kid in classroom and you don't know what's going on to feel nervous.

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eight key ways that you have turned other people into the biggest obstacle in your life and other people should be one of the greatest sources of inspiration and connection and joy and love and instead they are a constant source of stress and frustration and energy drain and they do not have to be and it is this invisible obstacle

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes, that's a sign that your things are working well because the alarm is trying to tell you something's not right. And then we feel the alarm and we don't know what the issue is. So then we make a major mistake. Instead of dropping into the alarm, which is always in your body, we go upstairs to our heads, which is where self-doubt is.

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And then you start going, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, which only makes the alarm worse. Bigger. I didn't know any of this back then. So I, of course, went from a dyslexic and ADHD kid to somebody that develops anxiety because I'm sitting in a classroom thinking I'm an idiot. And you want to know the kid that works the hardest in school? The one who's struggling.

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Not the kids that are getting straight A's.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes.

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Even if they're working hard.

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How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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Yes. It's the kid who isn't able to learn in that way and is terrified of being found out. Like you don't have to tell a kid that's struggling in school that like telling somebody to work harder is dumb because it's not an issue of willpower. It's an issue of I don't have the skills right now.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And when you're in that situation where you can't, in fact, there's a there's a doctor that was on our show two weeks ago that you got to have on his name is Dr. Stuart Avalon. And Lewis, he said this sentence. He's been at Mass General Brigham for 30 years. Incredible child psychiatrist. He says people do well when they can.

The School of Greatness

How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

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And if somebody is not doing well and they're exhibiting challenging behavior. it's because they're missing one of a few skills. And he's been able to identify it down into five skills. And one of the tragic things about his work with kids that he sees over and over is that it's not the kid's fault.

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You know, there are a lot of things in life that are not a habit of mine. I just do them. Like, I don't like unloading the dishwasher. I do it. I don't like picking up the dog poop in the yard. I do it. You're either the kind of person that in a moment where you know you need to do something, you don't stop and second guess yourself. You do it. Or you stop and you think about it.

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And I'm not talking big decisions because big decisions you should stop and think about. And you should really think about the pros and the cons and then align with your values or whatever you want and then make the decision. But small things like a lot of people have a hard time speaking up at work.

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because they're nervous about looking stupid and so if you sit in a meeting and you say because you're introverted or maybe because you are just nervous and you feel like an imposter there if you have something to say in a meeting there's two people people who say it or people who stop and think about saying it and then beat themselves up later because they didn't say it sure

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And so if you think about the most famous tagline in the world, it's Nike. Just do it. And if you think about those three words, just do it. What is the most powerful of those three words? Just. Yes. Imagine if their tagline had been do it. That's not that inspiring. Sure.

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Just do it. do it is acknowledging your humanity. It's acknowledging your dreams and your goals and the things that you're capable of. See, Nike knows that you're standing on the sidelines in the game of life. They see you questioning yourself. They see how much you want to jump in the game. And so they are calling you through the doubt and through the excuses and inviting you to jump in.

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Just is the most powerful part because most of us Are stopping ourselves right now. The only obstacle that you have is the ones that you're placing in front of yourself. And that brings me to the second part of what I focus on in my work, because the five second rule is your own personal just kick in the ass. It's like instant motivation, instant confidence.

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It pushes you through in those small, quiet moments where you give up on yourself.

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The let them theory is what you need.

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So the Let Them Theory is the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered. It is a simple mindset tool that immediately reveals what's in your control and what's not. And any psychologist will tell you, when you spend time and energy worrying about or trying to manage something that is not in your control and never will be, it creates stress, frustration, and insecurity for you.

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And the number one thing that will never be in your control is what another human being thinks, says, does, or feels. And the biggest problem for people that are dating is that you are pouring all your time and energy and giving all of your power to other people and you will never be able to control them.

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And the irony of this whole thing, and it's so fucking sad, is that you actually have all the power.

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but you're giving it away. And so if you're in a situation ship, or if you keep sleeping with somebody who slinks out the door like a cat in the morning, the problem isn't them. The problem is you. And you're going to use the let them theory very quickly to learn the world's simplest and most powerful boundary that you can use with two simple words. Let them.

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People reveal who they are and where you stand in their life based on their behavior. Let them reveal who they are. It is our inability to see people clearly through their behavior that keeps you in situations that are beneath you that are like complete turnoff. There's nothing confusing about people's behavior.

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What is confusing is the way you interpret it and the fantasy that you live in in your head because you refuse to let people be who they are.

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Say it. Let them. There's two steps. First, you say let them. Anytime somebody's pissing you off or you're questioning what they're doing or you're worried about them or you're up in your head about something. You're giving your power to them because you're worried about what they're thinking. You can't control that. You're worried about when they're going to text you. You can't control that.

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You are worried about how they feel about you. You can't control that. So let them. Let them confuse you. Let them leave. Let them string you along. They're not the problem. The fact that you're tolerating this is. Because step two is let me. Let me remind myself that the power isn't over there. The power is always right here with me.

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Let me remind myself that I am always in control of three things. I can control what I think. I can control what I do next. I can control how I'm going to process my emotions about this. I get to choose who I pour time and energy into.

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And any time and energy you're spending with somebody who is not giving you the respect or the time or the treatment that you deserve, you get to choose if you're going to continue to do that.

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Well, that's on them.

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If you want to be happy and what you're doing isn't making you happy, at some point you have to take responsibility for your life.

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Yeah, because people only change when they feel like it. And what I found in researching this book is that there's an enormous connection between pain and your desire to change. And the reason why pain is important is because your brain is wired. to move away from things that are painful, and you are wired to move toward what is easy.

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Texting back the person who only texts you when they're bored is easy. Saying let them and recognizing that if somebody wanted to see you, they would make plans. If somebody is texting you all the time and it's never going anywhere, you're a convenience. I got news for you. They're not interested in you. And so that's really easy for people because it feels good.

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It distracts you from the fact that you're single and you're home again on another weekend. But there is this saying in addiction, and a bunch of the experts talked about this in the book, that people only get sober when being drunk is harder than facing the things that you're afraid to face. And a lot of us are terrified to be single, and I understand that.

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If you've wasted a year of your life trying to insert yourself in somebody else's life, If you have accepted less than you deserve for a while, it is terrifying to admit to yourself that you've wasted another year and now you're going to have to step back out there alone and get back out there. And it seems easier to try to make this work.

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And it's the refusal to see someone else's behavior as the truth and then to remind yourself. So let them let them date a ton of other people and not want to put a label on it, which means they don't actually like you. That means they want to fuck other people. That's what that means. Sorry. It's true. But here's the thing.

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Understanding it as a concept is different than having a tool to be able to prompt yourself to act with the truth. And I never had tools like I understood I needed to push myself. I understood just do it. But without five, four, three, two, one, I didn't know how.

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Um, simple. I basically fucked up my own life and realized nobody else was going to fix it.

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And if I wanted things to get better and I wanted to be happier and I wanted to get out of debt and I wanted to have better relationships and I didn't want to blow up my marriage or be an alcoholic or be an asshole that I better figure out how to climb out of the hole I had either fallen into or I had dug for myself more likely.

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That's how it happened.

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Oh, which one do you want to talk about?

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Well, I think the thing that happened that was the biggest turning point in my life, because there have been a number of them, and it takes us back 15 years. I was 41, so just a couple years younger than you are right now. My husband and I, we've been together for 30 years, married for 28. At the time, we had three kids under the age of 10.

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And my husband had gone into the restaurant business and the first one was great, little pizza joint. And so like complete idiots, we cashed out our life savings, took out credit cards, home equity lines, because what could go wrong? And everything went wrong. And I found myself 800 grand in debt. Leans on the house, barely able to put gas on the tank. Friends and family had invested.

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And people were relying on the paycheck from the restaurant. Chris wasn't getting paid. We had no money. We were facing, like, it was unbelievable. Like, never in a million years had I ever imagined a scenario where I would lose everything that I cared about.

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And in these moments, what's interesting is that if you ever find yourself in a moment in life where you are stuck, whether you don't like where your health is or you find yourself in a string of relationships where you're getting treated poorly or you're getting looked over at work or you just don't know what you want to do with your life. The truth is, we all know what we need to do.

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Like, even when life was crushing down on me, Nick, I knew I shouldn't be drinking four bourbon Manhattans every night. I knew that when the alarm rang, I should get out of bed and get the kids ready and get them on the bus. I knew I should call my parents and ask for help. I knew I should tell my friends what was going on. I knew I should look for a job because that would help.

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I knew I shouldn't be screaming at Chris. But I couldn't stop myself from doing things that were self-destructive. And I couldn't push myself for some reason to do the simple things that I knew I needed to do. And this is the crux of all of my work. So I find myself in a moment in my life where I knew what I could be doing. I could stop drinking. I could look for a job.

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I could control my emotions. I could focus on the kids. I could stop screaming at my husband. I could ask for help. I didn't do any of it because knowing what you need to do is the first part.

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That's the easy part. Sure.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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The hard part is how do you make yourself do it? And this is hard because we all just let our emotions dictate what we do. And, you know, everybody talks about motivation and willpower and all this bullshit. Motivation is complete garbage. because it's never there when you need it. Motivation means feeling like doing something.

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And if motivation were on demand, everybody would have six pack abs and a million dollars in the bank and the world's best business and a wonderful marriage. And the reason why it is hard to change is because we are hardwired to default to what feels easy right now because we are dictated by our emotions and our feelings in the moment. And that was me.

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Like the alarm would go off every single morning, Nick. I knew I needed to get out of bed. I knew that hitting the snooze button six times every morning and laying there like a human pot roast marinating in all my problems and fears was not going to magically solve them.

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I knew that as the bills were piling up on that counter, that if I ignored them, it didn't mean some unicorn was going to fly in and suddenly pay them. But I didn't feel like getting out of bed. I was scared to open the bills.

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And I stayed in this trap of this tension of knowing that I had to do something, but I couldn't access the feelings of courage or motivation or whatever it is, or even just this hope that it would make a difference.

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And over the last 15 years, I think that's the single thing that I've noticed having 21 million followers, this massive podcast, all of the speaking that I've done around the world, the books that I've written, the research that I do, is that if you are missing hope, if you actually don't think this little thing is going to work for you, you will not do it.

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And so for me, lying in bed every morning, I was caught between knowing what I needed to do and just not feeling like doing it. And it all changed one night when I was watching TV. And I don't know if you've ever been in a moment, maybe it was on The Bachelor, maybe it was after The Bachelor, where you actually give yourself a pep talk. And it's one thing for you and I to talk.

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It's a whole nother thing when you give yourself that talk and you're like, all right, that's it. Tomorrow morning, it's the new you, Mel. No more drinking. You know, you're not going to be like screaming at people. You're not going to do this. You're not going to do that. When I was a walking red flag in my twenties, I would have that talk.

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I had no more, no more sleeping around, no more cheating on people. No more lying. You know, you gotta, you gotta study Mel and not pull all these all nighters. And so I'm having this talk with myself at 41 and I I'm listing off things. You can stop drinking, stop saying you got to find a job. You got to do this.

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And I ended by saying, and by God, woman, when that alarm rings, you have to get your ass out of bed. And at that very moment, Nick, A rocket ship launched across the television screen and it gave me this crazy idea. I thought, oh my God, that's it.

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Tomorrow morning when that alarm rings, Mel, you're going to launch yourself out of bed so fast that you're not going to be in that bed when that anxiety pins you there like a gravity blanket. Sure. Now, I had had four bourbon Manhattans that night. So that's probably what gave me the idea, right? I actually think it was divine intervention.

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But the next morning, it was a Tuesday morning in February outside of Boston, Massachusetts. And you are one decision away from a different life. One decision is the first domino that falls and tips everything in a whole new direction.

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And the cool thing about dominoes is that the first one knocks over the second one, but the two together can actually knock over a domino that's like 10 times the size.

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Yes, because of the momentum of the forward action. And so there was a decision that I made that morning. And I'm going to explain this because once you see this, you will never unsee this. There is a habit that we all have that is holding you back. From making the changes and showing up with courage and doing the simple, small things that don't feel so simple in the moment that change everything.

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And that habit is hesitation. And so the alarm rings, right? And I immediately remembered that dumb idea of launching out of bed. But then I made this fatal mistake. I paused and I hesitated.

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And when you stop and you hesitate, when you know what you should do or you have an impulse, it opens up this five second window of reflection where you now start thinking about what you need to do instead of doing what you need to do. And as you start thinking, inside this little window of time comes excuse, doubt, anxiety, procrastination.

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And what's happening, I know this now, I did not know this then, is that in this little moment where you're thinking, it's cold, it's dark, I don't feel like it, how the hell is this going to help? I don't want to. And you start reaching for the snooze button because that's always what you've done.

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You go from this part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex, where you're in charge, to defaulting to what you always do. All of the self-sabotaging behavior takes over in less than five seconds. In fact, I believe just like if you drop food on the floor, you got five seconds to pick it up or the floor contaminates the food. Your brain does the same thing.

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You have five seconds to move on any idea or your brain will contaminate your will to move. And so I counted that morning, five, four, three, two, one, and something crazy happened. I stood up and that was the beginning of a completely different life. And it was the beginning of a skill that everybody needs to learn and that everybody can learn. And that skill is the ability to push yourself.

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5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to do something that is scary or that makes you nervous or that you don't feel like doing. Because when you learn how to override your emotion in the moment by taking the actions that align with what you want, you now understand the secret to everything. See, the people that have what you want in life, they're not special. They're not different than you.

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Yeah, well, it's not even willing. They know that if you can get out of bed on a cold morning, you can do anything. If you cannot look at your phone first thing, you can do anything.

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If you can not pick up the alcohol because you said you weren't going to drink today, you can do anything because you are exhibiting a skill of being able to override emotion and excuse and fear and doubt and everything else that we label it and take the actions that align with what you want. And that is the same skill that will make you happier.

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5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

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You can push through the things that are holding you back and you can push yourself toward the things that you want. And that's exactly how I have gone from $800,000 in debt, struggling with drinking, raging at my husband, to building one of the most successful businesses in this space on the planet as a 56-year-old woman. And how I did it wasn't glamorous. It was fucking grueling.

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Because, yes, you change your life with one decision, but then you got to wake up every day and prove it to yourself. doing the small, tedious, invisible, boring crap that nobody wants to do. And there's so much research on this. It's really fascinating. Like if you're somebody that starts a lot of stuff, you know, you don't have trouble like I did starting. You have trouble staying with it.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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How long were you into the breakup?

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Okay, so social media wasn't a thing yet.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Okay. Well, because there's a couple things to say about this. First of all, you can't control most of what you think. It's actually not true.

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No. The average person has 70,000 random thoughts a day.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Most of which you can't control. What you can control are the thoughts that you choose to think in response to something.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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So the reason why this is important is because one of the big applications of the let them theory is that there's four ways that you've allowed other people to have power in your life and it's wasting your time and energy. And the first is you allow people to piss you off and stress you out and annoy you and worry you and hurt you and frustrate you. And you don't have to live like that.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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When you learn to just say let them, whether it is friends that go out without you this weekend and you see it online and you're hurt. feeling a little rejected, let them. Adults are allowed to do whatever they wanna do. Adults are allowed to be friends with other people. Adults are allowed to go out and not include you. When you're an adult, expecting friendship destroys it.

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You gotta be way more flexible. And so you say, let them in order to detach because otherwise it's gonna stress you out and then you're gonna get up in your head and you're gonna have this whole scenario about what they were talking about And then you're going to aim it back at yourself and they're going to be passive and weird the next time you see them.

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Yep. It's called Quitter's Day.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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And that's not going to make your friendship stronger. And so you're going to say let them. And it works because it's not the same thing as letting something go. See, I've never been able to let anything go because I'm very competitive and I like to be right. And when somebody says, Mel, you got to just let it go like your dad did. You're like, but. I don't want to because that means defeat.

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Right? It means like I'm losing. Let them is different. When you see your friends going out and it hurts, which it should because that's a normal reaction. That means you're actually mentally well if you have that reaction. Doesn't mean anything's wrong. What's wrong is how we process it and then become mad at other people. And then we then make ourselves wrong.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Well, the reason why is because when you first start something, it's fun and exciting. Like let's just take fitness, right? We buy all the stuff. We join the gym. You're going. You're kind of getting the result. By day 19, you're not seeing the result.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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So when you say let them, something weird happens. You not only feel less stressed, but you also get this sense of superiority.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Yes. And why this also works, Nick, is because it has deep application and roots in Stoicism, Buddhism, detachment theory. So in two simple words, you are applying ancient wisdom, philosophy, and therapeutic modalities in a moment in modern life. And that's why it works. And then you have to say the second part, let me.

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Let me remind myself that what's in my control right now is not being passive and texting me, that was nice, or whatever. What's in your control is what you think next, what you do or don't do, and what you do with your emotions. And if it's bothering you,

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Then ask yourself, and this is what happened for me, is the more I started saying, let me, let me remind myself that my social life is not my friend's responsibility, it's mine. And let me remind myself before I get passive that these are people that I actually like. And let me remind myself, wow, Mel, when's the last time you actually called any one of them and were interested in their life?

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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When's the last time you invited anybody out? You start to see that it's easy to blame other people and avoid taking responsibility for creating what you want in your life.

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I'll calm down. Well, you also kind of assume good intent, but that's like higher level processing in the moment for most of us. Most of us are basically eight year olds emotionally and we're trapped in big bodies. And so let them helps you access a level of detachment, which then helps you access the ability to choose how you're going to respond.

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Yeah, or you plateaued a little bit. And now you're bored. And now the emotions you're combating is you're not patient. You're bored. You are tired of doing the grueling thing. And you haven't developed the muscle yet of just ignoring that and 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, sticking with it.

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And if you look at the word responsibilities, you're ultimately taking responsibility for your life, right? Responsibility is just the ability to respond. That's what it means.

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And when you start saying let them and you stop giving power to other people, whether it's somebody you're dating or it's your mother's mood or it's your boss passing you over, you say let them and you recognize what's happening. This is who this person is and you're not going to change them. Then you say let me and you remind yourself, wow.

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I have power here because I get to choose how much time and energy I spend with somebody. I get to choose what conversations I'm in, what text chains I'm on, who I'm spending time with, who I'm not, what dinner tables I sit at, how long I sit in a date or an interview. I'm always in control, but I've been giving it away, which is why I don't see it.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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I've been looking to make somebody like me instead of literally coming back and being like, is this behavior a turnoff? Is this acceptable to me? There are three applications of the let them theory that I want to talk about with you.

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Because based on what you've shared with me, Nick, about the person that's spending time together with us right now, and what they're probably going through, or what their sister or their friends might be going through, these to me are the three biggest and most powerful applications. We're going to talk about love and dating and how to take a relationship to the next level in a powerful way.

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And I also want to talk about breakups because there's a lot of science that you should know and research about breakups and how you can use the let them theory to move through a breakup in a very powerful way. I also want to talk about chronic comparison and I want to talk about how you use the let them theory to

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to stop navigating your life around other people's moods and emotional immaturity, whether that's disappointment or guilt or passive aggressive behavior or the silent treatment. These are all extraordinarily powerful ways that you can take your power back in these areas of your life.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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So the first thing I want you to consider is there's obviously a tremendous amount of conversation out there about how toxic it is. Everybody feels that way. There's nobody that's like, yeah, I'm so excited to be dating. Everybody's complaining about it. And everybody feels this way.

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I do too, because here's the thing.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Well, not only that, stop bitching about online and actually, when's the last time you talked to somebody who's standing behind you at the coffee shop?

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Do you have an open approach? Are you open to actually meeting somebody somewhere else?

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And that's the point, this point where it gets boring and you're not quite seeing the spike and the dopamine hit isn't as great because you're getting used to it. That's the point that really separates people that talk about what they want from people who actually stick with it. And I do think that 99% of success and achieving what you want in life is simply not quitting.

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And the five-second rule is going to help. Because I think you just have to have an open attitude about where you meet people and being open to meeting people and talking to more people.

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Yes.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Yes. You know? Yes. Okay. So you're in the beginning stages. Hopefully you're having fun. Hopefully the sex is great, but then you're going to get to a moment where you're like, wow, I actually would like to spend more time and put more energy into this relationship with this person. And so this is the moment where you're interested in a commitment. And the commitment could be anything.

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It could be being exclusive. It could be putting a label on it. It could be moving in together. It could be getting engaged.

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Spending more time together. Whatever a commitment means to you. This is where everybody makes a major mistake and everybody gives the power to the other person because you are afraid to ask for what you want and deserve.

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Well, there's a specific way I want you to tell them because ultimately the let them theory is about protecting your time and energy, which I know that you love because your entire experience of life is determined by where you pour your time and your energy.

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And if you are with somebody that you're pouring time and energy to and you're not sure where this is going, you are now the problem because you are not respecting your own time and energy. So all you're going to do is you're going to have a conversation with the person when you get to this point and you're just going to say, hey, I love spending time with you. I think you're amazing.

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This has been incredible. And I just know myself and I really respect my time. And I have gotten to a point where I only want to spend more time and pour more energy into this if we're going to do X. And if you don't feel that way, that's totally cool. It's been amazing. But I just don't want to spend any more time or pour more energy into this.

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And here's what's perfect about it.

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That's fine. You don't put a label on it. It's fine. Whatever. Yeah, exactly.

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No kidding. But then that's not on them.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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And so you don't get to bitch about somebody else. If you've asked for what you've wanted, they've said no. And now you agree to it.

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And that's the hardest part.

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Because if you tell them what you want to pour time and energy into and they don't choose you, you have to let them. Because if you don't, you are now entering the most dangerous stage of a relationship, which is where it moves from reality to fantasy. The person has already told you that they don't want to be with you in that way.

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And so you are now placing all of the power in the other person because they don't actually want what you want.

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And so when you wake up a year from now and you realize you are now just another girlfriend on the way to their fiance, or you're just another convenience as they're shopping around for everybody else, that's not on the other person because they told you where you stand and you chose to be there. And it is not easy to say, let them.

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But you have to if you actually want to meet the person that is going to make you truly happy. And that is a critical way to handle this. And, you know, when you get into then a relationship and you're in a commitment, there's going to become that question because there's a ton of this now where people are like, well, is this the right person? Is there somebody better out there?

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And a couple things to put into perspective. First of all, when you look at the research of couples that have gone the distance, 11% of people that have long-term committed partnerships that are successful are had the spark in the beginning. 89% of people are what they call a slow burn. It builds over time.

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And so if you're questioning because that thing wasn't there in the beginning, you're looking at the wrong stuff. That's number one. Number two, you have to look at the person as they are.

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If you're questioning the person and you keep going, but well, if they got healthier, well, if they did this, well, and you are with the potential, then you're not in the reality of the person that you're actually having sex with. And you have to operate with the fundamental principles of human beings, which is people only change when they want to.

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And so let's break down the big question, which is you may be attracted, you may actually have a commitment, but when you're questioning if this is the right person, what you're now talking about is compatibility. And compatibility means you have shared values, And you have a vision for your life that actually supports both of you.

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It's everywhere.

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And when you start to question whether or not you're compatible, here is how you tell whether or not the things that you're worried about are the big things that break you up Or they're just the little bullshit that you need to learn to accept.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Well, dude, I live in Vermont. I've been at this 15 years. So I don't live here and it's still a long game. It's true everywhere. And it's just difficult here or difficult in cities or difficult if you spend way too much of your precious time staring at everybody else's life online is just difficult because it's in your face. And so you get to choose though.

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Most of the things that bother you about the person that you're with probably fall in about 69% of what people bicker about and can't stand about each other. And the research comes from the Gottman Institute, the married couple, as I'm sure you know. These are just things that are never changing. Never changing.

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Of course. Let them. Let them. And there's parts of the person that you are choosing to love that you've got to learn to love them as they are and as they aren't. And when you ask yourself, the things that frustrate me, are these things that literally, are they skills that they can build? Are they just things that bug the hell out of me, but they don't really matter?

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And the way that you tell whether or not something is a deal breaker is, A, can you stop bitching about it? Because if you can't stop bitching about it, you're going to hold it over the other person's head and resentment's going to build. And B, does it fall into a deeper category? And how you know this is either it makes you have to go against something you deeply value,

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Or it requires you to give up on a dream. If you have either one of those two things, that you deeply value family and you've always wanted to have kids, and the person with you are like, well, I don't really know.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Yeah. And you're up here going, this could change. This can change. No. You got to let them show you who you are. And this is not easy.

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Well, one of the reasons why this is critical is because this is one of the things in life that actually has a window of time to it.

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And so if you're with somebody who isn't sure. And they're not willing to participate in it because you want it. You have to understand that you are giving up on a dream of yours and you're the one gaslighting yourself saying this is okay.

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And instead you need to say, let them, let them reveal to you what they actually want. And then come back to let me, let me remind myself, I got to take responsibility for my life and my happiness and my dreams and the things that I want. Let me remind myself that there's 8 billion people in the world.

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And there are a lot of people out there that can make me feel great, that would love to have a family.

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Yes. Yes. And so if you can't stop bitching about it and learn to love them as they are and as they aren't and assume they're not changing, because most people don't, because what are we learning? People only change when they feel like it and they're not going to change for you. That's the other hard thing. People don't change for their children. They don't change for their partners.

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They change for themselves. And so you got to look at somebody and say, are the things about them that bug me? Are these things that I can learn to live with? Knowing that over time they may change, but Can I choose it if it doesn't? Because this person provides all the things that are actually important.

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Like I say to my daughters, the thing that's most important is that the person feels like home base. That when you come home from being out in the world and out in your life, that you actually feel like it's coming to like home base in a game of tag. And if you can have that feeling of peace and your shoulders drop and that's your person, then you're with your person.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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And most of the other bullshit you're going to figure out. Because what I've learned in 28 years of being married, and Chris is my most favorite person on the planet. We have been through hell and back. I mean, nearly lost it all, nearly lost each other, like up and down and raising three kids. Is that you only need two things to make a relationship work, but it's the biggest things, periods.

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And this is what we're going to talk about because my work is basically in two categories. The first one is the tools you can use to get out of your own way, to push yourself. And the five second rule, there is nothing better. This is spread around the world. It is used in All kinds of settings, clinical settings.

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You have to have two people who want it to work. And if you look back on any relationship where you either broke it off or they did, you will see that one of you stopped wanting it to work way before the relationship ended.

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And that's the second thing. You got to both be willing to work on it. And what I want you to imagine the next time you think about a relationship is imagine a teeter totter on a playground, because what's going to happen in your relationship the entire time you're together is the teeter totter is going to go up. It's going to go down. There are many times you're going to be in balance.

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And the most important thing about making that teeter-totter work is that you're both on it. The second one of you leans back or steps off.

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And it's very helpful to see it that way because you can even ask yourself if you're in a relationship, am I even on the damn teeter-totter right now? Did I already step off?

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Because if you're questioning it, you're probably already gone. And if you're questioning them, they're probably already gone. And that brings me to breakups. So one of the interesting things about this book is my 25 year old daughter and I wrote it together. Oh, really? Yeah.

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And it's great because then it's got the huge range of perspective in every category that we talk about, from comparison to stress to worrying about people's feelings. And when it comes to other people and what they're thinking, you have to let them think negative thoughts. That's the trick. Just say, let them think negative thoughts. The next time you open up your favorite social media account,

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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And this is going to put this like front and center. You know how you open up a social media account and then you pick a photo and then you're like separate photo. And then you start swiping through the filters and then you question the photo and then you move to the caption and then you write the caption. Then you delete. Am I too much? Is it this? Should I do all caps? Should I do the emoji?

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Are they going to think that? Who? Who? Before you even post something, you've already given power to another person. And now you're learning that you can never control what they think and you can't guarantee what somebody is going to think regardless of what you do. And by the way, your social media account is your self-expression.

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I know over a thousand people have stopped themselves from committing suicide by counting 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and asking for help. This is used by psychiatrists. It's super effective with helping people reprogram triggers associated with PTSD, OCD. Pediatricians use it to help kids with anxiety because it is a pattern interrupter.

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You want to be an influencer who gives a fuck what your college friends think. You want to sing your songs and start your YouTube channel and post a photo of yourself in a bikini. It's not for your friends. It's for you. But before you even post the thing, you have handed all the power to something you can't even control, which is what people are going to do in response to it.

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And you've robbed yourself of your self-expression. So you want to know why you're insecure? Take a look at your drafts on social media because there's hundreds of them stored there. And that's evidence. That's a graveyard of all your hopes and dreams right there. And you just gave all your power to somebody else and to something you can't even control. It's just ridiculous.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Correct. Let them think a negative thought. It's liberating. Because if you can't control it, don't you dare waste an ounce of your energy or your precious time on it. Take the time back. Take the power back. And remind yourself, let me remind myself, this is my social media channel. I get to say what I want. I get to post what I want.

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And every time I post something that's aligned with the person I want to be, I actually feel more confident. And so when we were writing this book, because you're going to keep using this and you're going to keep noticing, Jesus, I just give all my power to people's moods and their opinions. I can't control any of this shit. Why am I everybody's parent? Like enough. Let them live their lives.

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

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Let adults be adults. Let me show up in a way that makes me proud. Because when you're proud of yourself, you don't even think about other people and what they think. you just show up in a way that makes you proud and you're actually better in your relationships because you're not needy.

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And so on the topic of breakups, we were writing this book and we got to the section on breakups and we're doing like all this research around the let them theory and researching how people have been using it around the world. And her boyfriend of two years breaks up with her and she's like,

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E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9460.086

rip up this shit the let them theory sucks i don't want because when someone leaves and breaks your heart you don't want to let them yeah i mean you feel abandoned of course yeah and the let them theory doesn't make it easy it actually makes you move through it and the longer that you hold on to something that's gone the longer you trap yourself in a life that has ended

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

953.187

And one thing I want you to hear is that if you feel broken or lost in life, you're not broken. You have patterns of behavior that have probably been in place for a long time, patterns that other people taught you, which means you're not responsible for those patterns. But you have patterns of behavior that are broken based on where you are now.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9540.656

Right. Plus the world wouldn't let go. Like you had also a magnified version because even if you had tried, the world kept trying to remind you.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9550.485

And that's its own type of trauma.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9558.55

Well, that's you magnifying your brain.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9564.112

The let them theory does work for breakups. And the most important thing is you have to let them leave. And you're going to be saying, let them, let them, let them, let them. And I have very specific guidance on the protocol to follow in order to move through a breakup because the only way To do it is to go through it. And breaking up is grieving. That's what it is.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9590.785

Because a version of your life has just died and you didn't want it to. And you're right. That's why we hold on. And so the first thing that you're going to have to do that you're not going to do, and if you haven't gotten over somebody yet, you're still holding on six months later, a year later, five years later, you have not done what I'm about to tell you you need to do.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9610.737

You have to go through a 30-day detox. And that means you got to remove their photos from the family digital frame. You have to remove their stuff from your bedroom. You have to not listen to any voice memos or you cannot follow them online or look at their location. A purge. Well, here's why. Because you're not just learning how to move on.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9633.374

You have to break the patterns in your nervous system and in your brain. See, you have been encoded in living your life with them. And the process of breaking up is actually breaking apart all the patterns that got encoded in your nervous system and your body, just like grieving. This is why when you wake up in your bed, you can feel them there. That's your nervous system.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9656.788

remembering something it's just like when you stop vaping or you stop drinking you have to go through a withdrawal because your body remembers that doesn't mean they're meant for you that doesn't mean you should call them and that doesn't mean they're thinking about you it's your body breaking apart life the way that you knew it and every time you look at a video or you check a location

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9679.77

And worse, do not watch videos. Do not listen to voice memos because it is really activating your nervous system. And this comes from a recommendation from my therapist, Ann Davin, who's the smartest person I've ever met. When she started to explain...

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9694.295

heartbreak in terms of neuroscience and your nervous system it makes perfect sense and if you can for 30 days be in a depressive state and not look and keep saying let them and when you go to retreat from five four three two one push it away if you can do that you accelerate your ability To start moving forward.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

971.034

And the truth about human beings is that we are just wired to learn patterns. And if you don't break a pattern and replace it, a pattern repeats.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9716.46

But if you're still holding on to something, you have never actually gone through that 30 day purge. And so every time you look at the person's stuff and you watch their life playing out from far away, you are actually reactivating patterns in your body and keeping somebody that has left you and who is dead alive.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9738.426

And that's what you have to do.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9760.077

Excellent point. The second thing to know that's helpful, at least it's helpful for me, because I always think I'm the only one going through something when I'm in it. Sure. is that the majority of people start to feel better at about the 11-week mark.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9772.009

And the reason why is you've had enough distance from it, as long as you're not commiserating and marinating in it like Nick does and listening to voice memos, that you're starting to move forward. And so if you knew that that's what it was going to take, to truly start to let them leave and let me accept the reality of what's going on and let me stop holding on to something that's over.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9795.034

Let me give myself the grace to grieve this and to unlearn these patterns and to resist the urge to reach out and let me start to step forward into the next chapter of my life. And then my therapist had the best question ever. She basically said, if you knew that the love of your life, we're about a year away, that you are, the love of your life is in the future, not in the past, in the future.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9817.854

What would you do at this time right now?

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9826.401

Any time and energy that you pour into the person that already left you is time and energy that you could be pouring into yourself.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9835.408

Correct. Well, you get to choose and that's where your power is.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9854.732

You can buy it absolutely anywhere in any language, audio book, ebook, absolutely anywhere. And your sister doesn't need another sweater. She needs tools to make her life better. So get her this book.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

9870.207

Anywhere.

The Viall Files

E866 Ask Nick - My Exclusive Non-Boyfriend w/ Mel Robbins

992.763

Absolutely. And here's the other thing I'm going to tell you. So I invented something to help me get out of bed. I have been getting out of bed when the alarm rings now for 15 years. It is still not a habit. You want to know why? I don't like it. See, I think all the research around habits bullshit. You know, people say it takes 21 days. I think that's only if you like it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1008.617

Yes. Because I'm going to explain to you what manifesting is. Manifesting is not, let me think about a beach house and a beach house. That's not how this shit works. Manifesting is the intentional act of, of programming your brain to think different things and to filter the world to help you get what you want.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1026.401

You are literally using manifesting to bring four different parts of your brain online to program what your mind sees. So it's a lot like Instagram. So the second I'm like, I'm going on a show. It's great. And I started like talking all about it. I already follow it. Like I just saw so much of your content because social media listens to you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1049.427

The filter changes and then it shows you what it thinks you want to see.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1054.75

We've all experienced that, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1056.411

Guess what? Your brain works the same way. The exact same way.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1063.817

Yes. Yes. Yes. Who programs it?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1068.199

Yes. And your brain is paying attention to what you're actually saying. So if you're constantly going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, your brain is going to show you more reasons to be afraid. If you go, what if I can figure that out? What if it all works out?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

108.951

Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you. It's all you. Well, here's the thing. I think what's super cool is that the person that is listening to this right now The thing that's interesting about a show like this is that you don't bump into it. Like if you really stop and think about it, Jake, somebody had to actually select this episode and hit play.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1086.352

What if I like literally in the way that you manifest anything is decide what you want. And so what's something that you would like to have happen?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1099.383

OK, great.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1100.404

OK, great. And tell me a little bit about what the relationship feels like.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1110.188

Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1116.911

And tell me what you and your partner do.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1125.121

Okay. Terrific.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1126.962

Um, so what I want you to do is this is the method that I was taught by a guy by the name of Dr. Jim Doty. He's like this like fancy neuroscientist guy at Stanford.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1137.188

So he both studies the brain and operates on the brain, but he's like Mr. Manifesting.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1142.491

So you literally think about what you want and I would literally come up with a sentence that's like, um, I'm going to be in a loving relationship with somebody I lay in bed and watch TV with and we laugh and we have fun and I feel like myself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1157.714

You're going to take a pencil. You're going to write that down and then you're going to read it to yourself and then you're going to say it out loud. That's where you're going to first thing in the morning while you're calm. Manifesting doesn't work while you're anxious because the part of the part of the brain that actually is laying down the new programing. can't work when you're like, ah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1176.545

Right. So you got to do calm. So you're going to take your pencil. You're going to write this down. You're going to read it to yourself and you're going to say it out loud. And then what happens is this, the for you page starts to organize.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1187.314

Because you're now telling your brain, this is important to me. And your brain has this filter called the reticular activating system. Doesn't matter what the hell it's called. It's like a hairnet on your brain. Right. Changes. And now all of a sudden it lets in Information. Oh, there's another loving couple. Oh, interesting. There's a TikTok of two people laying on page. Oh, look at that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1206.97

So you start to see things that you normally don't see. And then you start to see it. So you start to believe that it's true because there's evidence there. And that helps you then start to do the things that you need to do, which are largely using the let them theory. Right. So that you can say no to the people that don't treat you and make you feel that way.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1227.856

Because the faster you say no to those people, the faster the person that is supposed to be laying in bed with you actually arrives. Right. That's how you meet them. You first tell yourself that you want to meet them. And you visualize it for yourself. And by repeating it, your brain's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. And you can do this with anything.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1245.149

You can do this with launching an influencer business. Right. You can do this with, I want to be anxiety free. You can do this with, I'm going to meet somebody that actually makes me feel like myself. And the more you repeat it, the more your brain starts to go, yeah, that's what we do believe. Right. And then you use the let them theory because it's a process of elimination.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1262.823

Seriously, like you have to, dating is not about finding somebody. Dating is about learning about what you don't like and raising your standards. For what actually is attractive to you and what's actually not attractive to you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1297.531

Because you don't like your body?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

131.72

That means they found time when they don't have time and they made it to listen to you. And it means they want to be here. See, on social, people bump into content all the time. But when you really think about your show as something that somebody has made the time and a very busy schedule to be here, you think about the single person that's listening somewhere around the world very differently.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1312.049

Well, what if – Well, OK, so that's a really interesting thing. Have you ever been in a long term committed relationship ever? And is it is part of it because you're uncomfortable being naked with somebody?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1334.116

Okay. So where did you get the idea that there was something wrong with your body?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1344.502

What did they say?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1346.143

Okay. And I... Was it in a situation too where you guys were all like getting undressed in a... I don't know what... I forget.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1377.809

Oh, Tumblr. I thought, I literally thought you mentioned gymnastics.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1381.49

I thought you meant like, okay, like were you fat in a leotard?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1384.511

Tumbling. Okay. I got you now. So you were a Tumblr kid.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1473.823

Yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1475.604

So. It's interesting that we're going here because I actually believe this is going to sound like the cheesiest ass thing I could ask you to do. But your issue is self-rejection.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1491.448

And one of the things that you're going to figure out in your life, and this is something I would work on with your therapist and I would really just explore for yourself, is that you're looking for the validation out there.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1507.94

When what you have to figure out is what does validation look like in here?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1514.571

Well, that's where we have to figure out how to have you get your power back.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1519.898

Because the problem with seeking validation out there for your actual self-worth or whether or not you're attractive or worthy or lovable is that that's never in your control.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1531.971

And that's why you have OCD because your entire life is set up to give you the very validation that you need from yourself. Only you've handed all the power over to whether or not strangers actually like you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

154.648

And so as you and I jump into everything from like the first topic, I really have to just say out loud because it's so on my mind is that these mics are so thick. It feels like holding a penis. I know. I've never been on a show where I'm like, OK, here we go right at the base. And so I I like as we jump into everything from dating to anxiety to whatever the hell you want to talk about.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1546.156

And so we can flip this. Okay. But you've got to understand, and this is like the heart of the let them theory. Like I'll give you an example. You cannot get sober until you stop drinking.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1559.961

And it's a nuance that most people don't think about. Same thing is true about taking control of your life. You can't take control of your life until you stop trying to control everything else. Because all the effort that you're putting into making sure everybody out there thinks all these things about you is time and energy that I want you to claw back.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1582.634

So that you actually think good things about you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1585.675

Okay. And so first things first, here's what we're going to do because then we're going to go deeper into some of the things that I think that you should do and you should talk to your therapist about because I want you to change this.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1597.94

You can be fucking hilarious and have a huge impact and grow your show and do all these remarkable things with your creativity and learn how to have a really good relationship where you actually like and accept yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1610.504

Like you can. Do you believe that?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1621.312

Uh-huh.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1637.862

Okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1640.69

Well, so here's the thing about confidence. You're saying, what does confidence mean for you?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1656.561

Okay. So here's something that I also want to share with you. So I have a different definition of confidence and I think language does matter. So confidence from this point forward, here's what I want you to say confidence is. Confidence is the willingness to try. Because when you are not confident, you kind of hold yourself back and you feel discouraged.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1677.435

And then the fact that you hold yourself back makes you feel more like an imposter, makes you feel more whatever. But if you're like back to the anxiety in this conversation of, well, I'm actually capable of figuring this out. If you're going, I'm willing to try.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1690.683

I'm willing to try. Because the more that you try, the better you get at things and then the more confident you feel about it. So when you talk about what you actually want to feel, you're actually a really confident guy. I'm going to tell you something. You try a lot of shit.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1705.69

Like I'm telling you, like you're actually a very confident guy. So I don't want to hear you say you're not confident.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1713.653

Because it's not true. Right. I mean, I'm watching how you live your life. and you are out in full force trying all kinds of shit for all of us to laugh at and learn from, that is a confident motherfucker.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1726.619

Okay, so let's actually use the right words, because you're not actually insecure. You're trying a lot of shit.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1734.504

Okay, so can I hear you say, I'm a really confident guy, but, and then describe?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1750.898

Okay. Got it. Um, is there anything you could change about your body that would make you feel more confident?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1758.047

What is it?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1765.973

I've done that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

178.837

I'm going to be thinking about the fact that one person is with us right now and they have decided that you and I are worthy of an hour of their time. And so I'm going to not only show up for you, I'm going to show up for them.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1806.434

Okay. So do you want to wear heels?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1817.614

Well, how tall are you? 5'3". Okay. So we got four inches.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1821.317

Okay. So you're either got to grow your hair taller. Right. Right. Or you got to wear heels. Right. So part of the problem with what you're doing is you are actually taking attributes, especially height, that there is nothing you can do to change it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1837.816

And you're using it to torture yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1840.848

And what's going to happen because you are so committed to trashing yourself is that even as you get more and more confident in your career, even as you check all these boxes, you will always find something to trash yourself. It has become like your default and it's actually not a bit anymore.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1859.059

Like I think that you can feel good about your body and still be self-deprecating about the assholes you're dating.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1865.824

Like there are things that you can find to make fun of that don't actually deep down make you feel like shit about yourself. And so number one, we, you have to actually figure out how to accept that it's not fair that you're five, three.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1886.978

No, it's not.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1888.399

Tell me all the reasons why it's not fair that you're short.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1892.241

What would change about your life if you were taller?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1903.047

Do you want to know why more guys don't want you?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1905.589

Because you don't want yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1908.792

It has nothing to do with your fucking height.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1911.674

You're focused on height because it's distracting you from actually doing the work of learning how to look in the mirror.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1920.059

And say, I am going to do life with that guy. Like you only get to do life with one person from the moment you're born to the moment that you die. You have one person to take care of. It's you. Yeah. It's you. And so the best thing you could ever do for yourself is to learn how to look in the mirror and go, all right, this is what I got. This is the hand I was dealt.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1946.851

And you can spend your life looking at everybody else's hands and thinking everybody else has a better hand of cards. That's not how life is played. It's how you play the hand. And from my vantage point, you're fucking destroying the hand.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

195.71

How does that change the way that you think about this?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1960.899

You are. You are. And there comes a point in time in life, and I learned this so fucking late, like it just, I don't want you to do this to yourself. Like you have to learn, if you want to be happier, you have to learn how to allow yourself to be happier. And there's something about you and the way you won't allow yourself to be happier.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1992.671

Sometimes you don't have to.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

1994.96

Sometimes I think the first step in changing your life is admitting to yourself that how you're doing it is no longer working. You can be funny as hell and super successful and self-deprecating and actually allow yourself to be happy with who and how you are.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2031.638

So there's two ways we're going to attack this. Okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2034.98

And first of all, I think it's so cool that you're willing to just like, boom, I thought we were going to talk about dating and let him ghost you and fuck that and like all that stuff. No, this is actually what matters.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2044.327

So there's something super cheesy I'm going to tell you to do. And you're going to hate this because you don't like how you look. But this is why you have to do it. I can't believe I'm sharing this with you. So tomorrow morning when you get up and you go into the bathroom, after you brush your teeth, I want you to do something that sounds ridiculous.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2064.463

You're going to put your toothbrush down and you're not going to say a damn word. And you're just going to look at yourself in the mirror. Just eye to eye.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2075.56

Don't say anything. You're going to notice that you're probably, if you're anything like me, you're going to notice that you probably have this tendency to scan your body and be like, pulling around or standing up straight or whatever we do. Like, you know, I've got one boob hanging lower than the other one. Like, why do I look like that? My wrinkles, my turkey neck. Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2095.698

So our brains are kind of wired to see the negative. Right. And so you got to fight against that. So you're just going to stare at yourself in the mirror. Don't say a thing. Now, I want you to understand. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror like that? Okay. That's normal.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2112.194

Based on the research, 50% of people can't look at themselves.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2117.449

eye to eye in the mirror because they don't like the person they see yeah i don't okay that's normal okay so this is going to be really hard and you don't have to like stand there for a minute just stand and look in the eyes and you're going to notice you're going to want to turn away and i want you to i want you to understand that moment you're not looking at a reflection you're actually looking at the person that you go through life with okay and then you are going to reach up uh-huh

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2144.776

And as dumb as this sounds, you're going to high five the mirror. But don't say anything. Now, a couple things might happen. You might laugh as it happens. You might just want to say, this is so fucking stupid, Mel. But as your hand goes toward the mirror, something happens.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2161.557

crazy is happening in your brain so this is a field of study called neurobics and it's it's exactly what it sounds like it's neuro whatever plus aerobic activity the fastest way to rewire new thinking patterns is to marry a new thinking pattern with something you don't normally do physically okay so let's talk about high-fiving okay i want you i want you to high-five me okay you ready all right let's do another one right yeah okay great yeah so what does a high-five mean

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2194.103

Right. But if you and I are high-fiving, what do you say? What are you saying to that? Like, good job.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2200.026

We did it. You never high-five somebody and say, you're fucking ugly.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2203.688

I hate you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2205.228

I hope you lose.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2209.05

You're too short. Right. It's always keep going. I see you. I got you. So it is impossible because all the programming in your brain... With this action is already in here because you've seen people do this and you've done it for a fucking lifetime. So when you look at yourself in the eyes and you just silently go like this, you aim all that positive. I got you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2230.005

I see you keep going with your own reflection. Right. You do that five mornings in a row based on our research. That's how quickly it takes to start to actually see yourself as somebody that you're like, okay, I got you get out there.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2248.357

And you will stop if you keep doing this. You won't even need to do the high five. I don't even need to. I look at myself in the mirror now and I used to just scan my gray hair and this and that and just trash myself. And I don't actually do that. Because I would never talk to my daughter that way. I wouldn't talk to my best friend that way. Why the fuck would I talk to myself that way?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2271.176

The reason why you talk to yourself that way is because you've just repeated it and you just do it all the time.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2277.14

And so that's one thing that you can do. The second thing that you need to do, I personally believe, because the reason why you're not happy is because you live your life here.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2292.171

Okay. Okay. But I want to validate that you live in a chronic state of fight or flight.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2298.657

And that's why you're not happy. And there are things that you can do to understand that in your body, if you're always on edge, then parts of your brain don't work because you've got the alarm going in your body. Does that sound resonant for you?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2315.141

Yeah. I mean, even the incident that you were talking about where somebody commented on your body when that happens to you and you're little, it makes you feel unsafe.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2326.06

And so your body is designed to sound the alarm when you feel unsafe. It's, it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. But then the problem is you're going to be bracing again.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2336.702

Because you're trying to protect yourself from these jerks who said something that scared you. And then you don't have adults around you that can actually help you. And so you as a kid are having to feel like you've got to take this all on yourself. And a lot of the comedy and looking out there is a distraction. So people don't pick on you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2352.95

You're like, I'm going to do it first before anyone else can do it to me. Correct.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2357.013

It's an actual offensive mode. Now, that doesn't mean you're not funny as fuck. It doesn't mean that's not your genius. But you can still have that genius and actually heal the thing that it actually came from. And so what I want you to understand is your body has two nervous systems, okay? Okay. There's the alarm. We know that one works.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2378.665

And, you know, when you do like that and then you're up in your head, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, scanning around. What am I going to do? What am I going to do? Okay, that's the alarm.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2387.387

Your body also has a calm, resting, sexy, confident, present nervous system. It's called the parasympathetic nervous system. And so I'm going to teach you how to turn it on. It's so fucking cool. So you have something in your body called the vagus nerve. I wish they taught this in elementary school.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2408.221

It runs from literally your butt through every major organ, your vocal cords, all the way up to the top of your head. It's the on-off switch. Between alarm. And fucking chill.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2419.237

It's sort of like the internal margarita. Yeah. Flips the switch, right? So what you're going to do is you are going to, whenever you feel that, oh my God, the alarm's on. Somebody flipped on the lights. Okay. I'm capable of feeling this. You're literally just going to, you can just put your hand right here. This is where the vagus nerve runs right through here. You're going to press in.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2444.371

Close your eyes. Here he goes. Okay. Breathe in and then here we go. Blow it out. And all you have to remember, Jake, is that the exhale's longer. Let's breathe in again. One more time. Here we go. And then you're just going to say to yourself, I'm okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

247.335

Yes. Yes, exactly. And that's like an incredibly cool thing that you're providing for somebody else.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2472.076

I'm safe. I'm loved. I'm loved.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2474.904

And I'm capable of figuring this out.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2478.646

What do you feel in your body?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2481.527

Yes. Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2484.129

Yeah. And you can do that anytime you want.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2487.83

And so if you find, and you're living a big life, you got big goals, so you're going to need to have that energy. But if you feel it getting the best of you, fucking drop in real quick, settle yourself, then go into the business meeting. Then walk on to the date.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2505.364

And so those are two tools you can use to actually start to rewire the way that you go right on edge and also that cheesy thing, high five the mirror, do it every morning as part of my morning routine as a way to start to actually go, I got to root for that person. I got to stop punishing myself for the fact that I'm short.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2527.169

Like how cruel.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2530.194

No. Well, there is something you can do.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2532.917

You can learn to go, this is who I am and I get to choose whether or not I go through life.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2540.383

Hating that or embracing it. Like what's great about being your size?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

255.171

Yeah, because you're funny as fuck. I want to know, I saw the video where you fell skiing. Did you rip your jumpsuit? Because that looked like a really bad fall.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2550.577

Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2554.24

You want to know what else?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2557.403

I don't think you, I think the fact that you're shorter like Kevin Hart.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2562.147

Actually makes you more unique.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2571.694

Not jarring.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2579.103

Yes, you are more of a personality.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2581.269

And you also are relatable.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2584.093

Like if you're like crazy tall and you look like you should, you probably will be on GQ because of your success.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2593.079

And, and you know, the other thing is so many people look up to you and everybody watching and listening has something they hate about how they look.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2601.666

And so there's some way to figure out how to make it funny, but actually own it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2624.227

Why?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2629.071

Okay. It's not true. So this is where we're going to get into let them theory. Right. Because this is why this is how you give power to other people.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2638.598

The only thing that you should be focused on is what you actually think is true for your sake. Like the way to be happy in life is to not look for validation and for the things that you want in other people's opinions because we can't control them. The way to be happy in life is to say let them. And the thing that I want you to say is I want you to actually use the theory in a very direct way.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2665.512

I want you to say let them talk about how fat I am.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2668.693

Let them talk about my bosom.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2670.573

Let them comment on how short I am. Right. Let them think whatever negative fucking shit they're going to think. I will wave from my private jet while I'm sitting here drinking my Celsius and enjoying the ride because I know who I am.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2683.103

And what matters in life is not what they say. So you've got to let them think negative thoughts.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2715.978

I don't think, you do not have thick skin.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2719.52

You are porous as fuck.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2721.322

Yes. You have very clear skin. Thank you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2724.205

Yes. Yes. Very thin.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2752.126

Okay. So here's how you use the let them theory because number one, the major thing in life you can't control is what somebody else thinks, what they do, what they believe, what they say, how they feel. Cannot control it. So you got to learn to let them. Yeah. If somebody misunderstands you, let them. If somebody actually is confused about your intention, let them. Right.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2772.386

People are allowed to be confused. They're allowed to have their opinions. They're allowed to not understand why you're doing what you're doing. They're allowed to be disappointed. Let them. You're not people's parents.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2784.512

They're grown ass adults.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2786.433

Let them feel how they feel. Let them have their opinions. Okay. Then you come to the let me part. This is where your power is. You got to always go, okay, Jake, let me remind myself what I think matters most. And I know my intention. And when you know what your intention is, then you know that you're a good person and that's what you have to anchor.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2807.943

Now, if you have a good intention, let's say, um, I don't know, like, let's say that you, you can't make it to somebody's birthday party. It's not a big birthday. It's not like 25, it's like 23 and everybody's going out to some fucking restaurant and 14 people and you're splitting the bill and blah, blah, blah. You don't even want to go.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2823.968

You don't know half the people. But your friend's a little bit dramatic, and they're going, oh, Jack, I want you to be in there. Right, right, right. You're like, oh, my God, I don't want to be there. What we do in life is we literally bend ourselves backwards and show up at things like that because we want that other person to think we are a good friend. Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

283.72

All right, good. Cause that was a cute jumpsuit.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2844.411

And she's like, why does he seem like he's in such a shitty mood? Why did he even come? He's being a therapist. Yeah. Right. So even the shit that you did to try to manipulate what they think about you didn't work. Right. Because you have no control over what they think. And they're allowed to think whatever the fuck they want.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2859.555

See, if you do the opposite, which is, I know I'm a good friend. And I also know that in taking care of myself, that going tonight and splitting a bill with 16 people and sitting next to people I don't have the energy to talk to isn't actually going to work for me tonight. I need to rest. I need to take care of myself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2878.219

So you're going to call your friend and be like, I'm not going to be able to make it. Okay, they're disappointed. Let them be disappointed. Because here's the thing about disappointment. It's a good thing.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2887.771

Yes. Because if your friend's disappointed, it just means she loves you and wanted you there.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2894.313

Isn't that a good thing?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2896.313

See, two things are always true.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2897.913

You can disappoint somebody and they still love you. Right. And a business partner can be disappointed that you can't make it somewhere. And it means they just want you there. I mean, what's the alternative? Oh, thank God you're not coming.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2911.036

So disappointment, let them have their disappointment. It's not your job to manage it. And then let me remind myself, because you're going to say to your friend, I totally get it. And here's the thing. I would just rather like go have coffee with you this weekend. Right. and actually get to be with you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2928.111

And so here's what I'd like to do. And whatever they say, let them. You know your intention. And when you align your life, Jake, with what you believe and what you feel, and you know you're a good person and you know why you're doing things, that's the secret. Because then you don't care really what other people think because you know the truth.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2948.317

But if you organize your life around what everybody else is thinking, you're going to make yourself crazy because you can never control it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2957.569

What are you getting out of this?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2970.461

Yes, and I want you to learn this now, to let people have negative thoughts.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2980.325

Got it? Yeah. And learning that now, especially given that you've got a huge, beautiful, bright, amazing future, learning to let people have negative thoughts and stay really laser focused on what am I doing and why and what are the ways to think that make me feel good about me, that's the secret to a great life.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

2999.793

Do you get that? Do you see how this is a boundary too? Yeah. Like you don't need any other boundary than let them. Yeah. Because let them is like I'm letting you live your life and then my life gets better. And it's not like I'm being a dick. You're basically going I'm not responsible for what you think and feel.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3024.388

No, you're not. You're, you're, you are not responsible for anybody else's emotions. An emotion is a chemical explosion that happens in six seconds inside somebody's body.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3037.156

And what really liberated me, cause I used to be a huge people pleaser and I would navigate my life based on people's moods. Or if God, I had like some friend that was like giving me the silent treatment and Now I'm like bending over backwards.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3050.824

And sucking up to this person.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3052.404

Okay. Well, good. So let's talk about this. So everybody you meet from this point forward, just, I want you to visualize them as a eight year old child in a big body because that's how old we are emotionally. Right. And we make the mistake of looking at other adults and our friends and thinking that they're actually emotionally mature. None of us are because our parents weren't.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3073.274

and you're not born emotionally mature, and all emotional maturity is, everyone loves to throw around that word, is it just means you actually understand and can process your emotions without puking them at another person.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3086.857

Me too. I'm an erupter.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3088.84

So you and I are basically eight-year-olds that throw ourselves on the floor and throw tantrums.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3093.646

Do you vent text to people?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3097.631

I got my daughter just went like, that's you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3107.435

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, so what that's a sign of, because that's me too, is it's a sign of when your emotions get going, you don't know how to settle them. So you just puke them out.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3119.185

And when you get frustrated, it's like with the raging, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3123.188

And they're like, oh, I'm really sorry. I just had a stressful day at work. No, you just literally can't tolerate stress. And you just fucking puked it at me in a text.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3130.034

All caps.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3131.275

And then I sent an emoji. Yeah. I'll see you later.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3134.378

It's like out of my body.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3137.101

Same. So here's what, so first of all, you actually just did the hard part. You said, oh my God, that's me.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3144.689

And so recognizing that you're that, let's go through some other ones though.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3148.052

So another big thing is the friend that is the silent treatment person.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

315.959

You don't want to learn to drive.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3154.201

If you think about that friend as an eight year old, that's a child who pouts. A child who pouts is just a child who like you feel frustrated or disappointed or hurt and you don't know how to use your words. So you go pout in the corner. Why? So the parent.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3170.845

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3349.982

If somebody's doing the silent treatment to you, choosing whether or not you're going to be compassionate and try to comfort them, some people you may. Right. Choosing that, okay, I see who this person is and I now know to have kind of good boundaries because this is what this person does.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3366.837

And so that's how you understand, how do I want to respond to this situation? Well, you just ask yourself, well, what's worth my time and energy? Because my responsibility is actually to myself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3377.861

Isn't that kind of cool?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

338.322

Yep.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3380.242

And this goes to dating too, by the way. So we talked about how you would really like to be in a relationship. And so the two things that I want you to do is number one, to really like think about the more that you actively try to program in that this is going to happen. I'm a fucking catch. I'm funny as hell. I'm super kind. I got stuff I'm working through, but I'm capable of working through it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3403.51

And the right person is, actually creates an environment where I feel safe to do so, right? And so kind of reminding yourself of that instead of,

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3415.305

The opposite that you've been doing, which is I'm short and I was going to love me and a big tits and that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that I, and I don't look like this and I don't have that, which, which is its own thing, which then does not actually help you attract what you want because like attracts like, and if you are looking for somebody that makes you feel safe and makes you laugh and that you just feel like you can be you with, then that's what you are going to attract in your life.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3442.785

And by attract, I mean your radar is up. And not gaydar, I mean radar for what is attractive and what is not attractive to me. And so in dating, here's how I want you to think about this. People's behavior... tells you the truth about where you stand and what their priorities are. Right.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3465.157

And the danger that we all get into is, and all the situationship shit, is that we refuse to see somebody's behavior, especially in the fool around stage where it's super casual and you're just protecting yourself from venereal disease and having fun. Yeah, yeah. With the lights off, of course, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3481.722

Because we're going to work on the body image stuff, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3484.022

That you... Get yourself in danger because instead of living in the reality and letting them reveal whether or not they like you and how they treat you and whether or not you're a priority, you live up here in your head and you create a fantasy about what's going on.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

349.187

Wow. Then your brain is way busier than I can tell.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3504.804

See, I think people's behavior is very black and white.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3507.804

Well, I mean, if somebody wants to see you, you'll know it. If you're a priority, you'll know it. If all they do is text you, but you don't make plans, it means they don't like you. They're bored. There's no confusing behavior. Right. You confuse yourself because you go up here and go, well, maybe it means this. Maybe they're busy.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3534.098

And the only thing that's confusing about dating is how we confuse ourselves.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3539.542

Because we will not let people show us that they're not interested.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3544.546

Let them show you they're not interested. Let them text you when they're bored and never ask to see you. Let them lead you on and never follow up. Because now they're showing you where you stand. And then you go to the let me part. This is where the boundary is and go, is this attractive to me?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3560.01

Let me go back to my little manifesting. Okay, this was not what it was supposed to look like. So this is a no. Right. And the more you say no to the wrong stuff, the faster the right person walks in. And see, I think because you don't like how you look, you're processing. I can feel, like, the octopus going like this.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

357.05

And has it always been that way?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3631.308

Great. Super relatable. So here's the thing. Why were you questioning whether or not you should text him? What are you managing?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3659.779

Let him. See, what we do in dating is we invent all these rules because we're trying to manage what they think of us.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3667.064

What if you just... Let them think what they think. And you gave yourself permission. Let me just like text when I want to text. And if I'm too much for that person, then they're not my person.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3677.61

How is somebody that's meant to be with you supposed to find you if you're busy trying to fit yourself into places you don't belong?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3685.333

Correct. So learning that you're not on this planet to be somebody's husband. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so thinking about it from a standpoint of meeting people isn't about getting to anything. Meeting people and being in relationships is an opportunity to learn more about yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3721.594

And the breakthroughs that I want for you are for you to actually have relationships where you can be naked in daylight, where you can... Really feel where you can be comfortable with yourself and feel like yourself and where somebody loves everything about you and it helps you love you more. Like that's what I want for you. Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3744.689

And, you know, instead we chase all this stuff out here that's on the surface when really a meaningful relationship is about all the stuff you don't actually see.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3752.976

And so for you using the let them theory, it's going to help you because I don't like learning how to not play games and giving yourself the permission to just show up. If you want to text fucking text, if you're some psycho freak and that's what you do, I'm not saying you are, but you know, like a clingy, then let yourself be that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

377.26

Okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3775.368

And the people that can't handle that leave faster and you want them to.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3780.709

And let them think a negative thought. Let them misunderstand you. Let them think you're this. Let them think you're that. Because that's not what you're going to try to control. And let me just give myself permission to just act however I want to act because that's what feels good for me. And the more that I give myself permission, the more a person that can handle me is going to show up. Right.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3801.565

You see what I'm saying?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3802.926

And so I feel like using this, you're going to not do the danger of censoring yourself. Because you're going to let them think something negative, let them misunderstand me, let them feel how they're going to feel, and let me not invent some stupid fucking rule. Like you could text them after this conversation and be like, I didn't even watch the fucking movie, but I just was thinking about you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

381.863

Ooh, unpack that. What does that mean?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3833.268

Yes. Great.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3834.949

That's true, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3839.171

And now you're like, fuck, I recommend a shitty movie.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3841.732

This movie fucking sucks. Okay, great. Let them think it sucks. No, this is so relatable because this is what we do because we put all the power over there.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3850.895

And every time we censor ourselves, we're saying to ourselves, I don't like myself. So I can't say that. And then what if this, and I gotta be a different thing.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3858.056

And it's self-rejection. So giving yourself permission and you can't give yourself permission until you basically go, I'm not going to manage what this person thinks of me. I'm going to let them think something negative. I'm going to let them misunderstand me. I'm going to let them Like, not like me because I'm short. I can't change it. They're not my person.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3873.371

Like, I know who I am and I'm going to let me basically go, the right person is going to make me feel 10 feet tall.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3884.676

Correct.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3886.177

And you only think about your height because of some fucking asshole and what they said to you when you were little.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3892.32

And you have to. Stop giving that power. And it's a more complicated thing because it was a traumatic experience where you froze and felt under attack. And that was the right response. But you have to reclaim the way you brace in life because you're an adult now and you don't have to go through life like that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3914.881

But it begins with you and you learning how to say how I am is good enough. Like I got to be able to be naked with myself. I got to be able to accept myself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3929.667

Because until I do that, the right loving person isn't actually going to come in. I'm going to be looking for somebody that's better and taller and sexier in the six pack and all this shit. Because if that person chooses me, then I'm okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3945.351

Yes. Exactly.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3948.172

And you're focused on all the outside shit.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3953.874

And it's actually, like, if you've got somebody, the stuff that actually matters is, are they kind? Can I be myself? Are they loyal? Do they have friends? How's their relationship with their family?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3968.665

If you got that, can I laugh? If you got that stuff, you've won the lottery with a person.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3974.17

I'll tell you, the abs go away. The hairline recedes. Seriously.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3979.274

And so you're focused on the things that you think are deficits in you. Mm-hmm. And you're missing the actual fucking goldmine that you are.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

3991.772

No, I mean it. Yeah. I mean it. And so let them ghost you. Let them lead you on. Let them like, you know, do what they're going to do because you're not in it to find the one. You're in it to actually learn how to love yourself. Right. And then the right person shows up. And stop like chasing the potential of something because it looks good on Instagram.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4019.427

You got to focus on what feels good for you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4040.34

Well, you might actually need somebody who's not on Instagram.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4051.288

That's what that is. And so, you know, I think that like you should have fun. You should date tons of people and you should let them think what they're going to think. And you should really experiment with I'm in my let me era. I'm in my let me era. I'm just going to let me be me. And I got to work on that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4066.318

really just, okay, I'm short, I'm fucking hilarious, I'm building a big business, I have millions of fans, and I'm working on learning how to allow happiness in. I am not going to let those motherfuckers that bullied me when I was little actually dictate the way it feels to be an adult, because the first step of actually changing your life is admitting how you're doing it no longer works for you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4091.204

And it doesn't make you happy anymore. Like you protected yourself the best you could. And it's also fueled all this comedy, but you can learn how to be wildly entertaining and actually look in the mirror and be like, that's my fucking guy. Yeah. And I want that for you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

410.545

Yep.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4110.351

What are you getting from this?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4121.375

Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4125.856

Yeah. And here's why. That your brain is always watching. Right. What you're doing. So if you actually want to be in better shape and you're not working out the way you need to, your brain is just going, oh, well, he's not taking care of himself. Yeah. But if you force yourself to start doing different types of workouts, because are you capable of losing weight if you want to lose weight?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4146.916

Are you capable of like having muscles or six pack if you wanted to? Yes. Okay, great. So then you have to actually ask yourself, do you want those things?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4157.113

Like, is it like, yeah, or is it like, fuck yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4162.076

Then prove it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4163.176

Because every day that you wake up and you're like, this is actually on the list. I curve out time for this. I've hired a trainer. Cause if you're like me, you're a lazy ass.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

417.452

Oh no, I'm tracking like absolutely completely with you. So can I give you a visual?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4171.881

Oh my God. You need somebody screaming at you. Like, so do it. And so prove it. And when you start to show up every day, like for every, there's so many people that watch you that want to be making money online. Right. But they don't post. Yeah. And you want to know why they don't? Why? Because they think their fucking Instagram is for their college friends. Right.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4189.805

Your Instagram is for your business. Your Instagram is for your self-expression. If Susie Q from your sorority does not fucking like it, fuck her. Right. Let her unfollow you. Let her gossip to all your former sorority sisters because you know that you're changing your Instagram strategy because if all these people are making money, you're capable of making money too.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

421.755

Okay. So you're going through a massive state of expansion in your life. Congratulations. Thank you. You have this big tour coming up. It's going to be amazing because you're actually going to get to see everybody and be with everybody, which is going to be a whole nother thing that takes you like this. Um, what I want you to do is because it's very easy in life. I had chronic anxiety for so long.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4211.098

But first you got to get over your massive insecurity about what other people think. And the way you do it is a let them theory. Let them think negative things about you and let me go build that goddamn business.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4237.704

Yes. So here's what I want you to do now that you're a business person. Make the thing that you do your job. Do not make it your identity.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4251.228

Yes, but making content and being funny and going on tour and having these conversations and being self-deprecating is your job. What you do when you're not on camera and how you treat yourself and how you talk to yourself and whether or not you go to the gym and whether or not you're naked with, you know, your lover and you're in broad daylight. That's who you are. Right. Does that make sense?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4275.582

Yes. And when you think about it like a job, this is what I fucking do. This is not who I am.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4281.524

You can have a personal brand that you know that this is what I do out here, but I'm actually working on boundaries with myself because I will not be successful if all I do is tear myself down in public and in private.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4295.549

In private, I got to fucking build myself up.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4301.452

That and... You have to take the actions that actually prove to you that you are taking care of yourself. So I would say exercising, especially if you're lazy and you need a trainer, fucking get one.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4314.881

I think that what's interesting about life is that the success is not in doing it perfectly. Success is the person who actually gets back to it after they haven't done it for a while.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4329.005

That's it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4330.158

That's it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4331.859

Great.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4332.76

Okay. So high five.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4334.48

Like literally. Like you're, the other thing is, is that you'll, you're also, here's another trick. Since your brain is, is always looking for what's wrong.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4344.693

You'll find, you'll forget that you did a hundred things correctly today.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4349.317

Right. But then you'll laser focus on the one thing you didn't do. It is a superpower to train yourself literally at the end of the day to go, well, what went well today? And if you can't do that, Lulu, please ask him. So tell me, tell me one thing that went well today.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4363.294

Fuck yeah. Okay. Cause that's what somebody does if they actually care about themselves.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4368.356

Yeah.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4369.577

Great. All you need is one.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4371.698

Like if you literally only ate 75 french fries instead of 76, we're winning.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4377.54

And so ending the day is another way. And just saying what actually went well, like name one thing that went well today.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4385.764

Oh.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4392.375

Great.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4394.576

Great. So a lot of great things went well.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4397.337

Great. And so another thing you can do, and this is for the person listening too, if you really struggle with like supporting yourself, if you did support yourself, what would a day in the life look like that's not utopia? Like what are the things that you would do if you were actually happy and you were proud of yourself that you're not currently doing? Oh, I can give you an exercise.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4419.772

Do you have an answer?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4422.397

Okay. You ready? So this is, I'm going to call out my daughter Sawyer. And when COVID hit, was it COVID? This is the exercise where we drew a line. It was in Rhode Island. Drew a line down the center. High school or Boston? Okay, so she graduates from college.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4437.213

And the 20s are the worst decade of your life. There, I said it. Really? Oh, the worst.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4444.34

Well, that's why it's the worst, because you guys have been gaslit into thinking it's the best.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4449.084

No, the 20s are the worst, and I'll tell you why. From zero to 20, your entire life... had structure to it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

445.154

And when you are in a state where you're always up in your head and your body is kind of on that edge state, it's both the thing that helps you get everything done. But the problem is the part of the brain that makes memories actually isn't present.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4457.875

Where you knew exactly what was going to happen next. You were going to go to first, second grade, third, fourth, fifth, all the way to college and people go to college and you go to freshman, sophomore. You, you had celebrated the same milestones as everybody else. Yeah. So you could locate yourself in a big group of people.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4474.987

You knew who was ahead, who was behind. We were all kind of in a pack. Plus you were with people your age all the time.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4482.275

All the time. And you were all celebrating birthdays. You had the same milestones of graduation or prom or rush or whatever it may be, right? And then all of a sudden, the 20s happened and something that I call the great scattering hits. No one sees it coming.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4498.875

And all of the structure and foundation that you didn't realize was something that gave you a sense of confidence and a sense of what's coming next and kept you in touch with your peers evaporates. People go to LA, they go to New York, they go to Chicago. Some people go to medical school. Some people like don't know what they're doing. Some people take the IB job.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4520.326

Some people go into like everybody's all over the place. And the only thing that's holding your friend group together is a text chain that gets quieter and quieter and quieter. And you start to think, I never see my friends. What the fuck is going on? And then you start to look around and everybody's in different phases and places. And some people are single and some people are over here.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4538.33

You don't see people. You start seeing some of your old friend groups get together, but then you're not invited. And then you wonder, am I in the in? Am I in the out? And you start torturing yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4547.492

And the reason why this happens is because of this great scattering. And the other big thing that happens is friendship goes from a group sport where everybody's together. If you are living with a bunch of people, everybody's always invited.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4562.695

If you're on a team, everybody's invited.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4564.816

If you're in whatever Kappa house or whatever, everybody's invited. So you start to expect friendship to happen. Then the 20s hit and it all of a sudden becomes an individual sport. And that's when people start to grip and cling and they wonder the frenemies and the breakups and all this shit.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4585.068

And it's because the rules of friendship have changed and because everybody has scattered and the actual structure that gave you a sense of knowing where you were disappears.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4595.013

And so the way you use the let them theory of this is you've got to let friends come in and out of your life. You've got to be more flexible. You've got to let me take a proactive approach. If I want to see somebody, I need to make the effort. I can't sit back and be like, they never invite me. Well, when have you invited them somewhere?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

461.289

Yes. So if you, I don't know if this is true for you. Do you have, do you feel like you look back on your childhood and you don't quite have a lot of memories?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4614.656

And the other thing I want to teach you is this, because I think it's really important to understand in your 20s. There are three pillars to adult friendship. One is proximity.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4626.466

If somebody is in front of your face, you spend more time together. There's actual research that says that you need like 78 hours to be a friend with somebody. And in order to be a close friend, you need 200 hours together. OK, if you think about your childhood or think about college, you're freaking living with your friends.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4645.573

You see them all the time. You're in class together. So the conditions for proximity and spending lots of time are there. You never see your friends when you hit your 20s because everyone's all over the freaking place doing everything.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4659.146

And so it's natural since you're not in front of each other. To feel the friendships start to fade or strain. And then you say, let me. Let me remind myself that just because I don't talk to that person anymore doesn't mean I'm against them.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4672.769

We're still friends. Right. We're still friends. Like I, I like, I don't, I can be super flexible with people.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4680.729

Now, if somebody is immature or toxic or whatever, then so, okay, let them be that way. I get to choose whether or not I'm an invest in this friendship or not.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4689.873

But when you take a more flexible approach and when you understand it's about proximity, it's about timing, it's about energy before you break up with a friend or you have some big, super weird, like blow up, ask yourself, did any of these three pillars change? Because if the timing or the proximity or the energy is shifted, then the friendship is going to shift. And that's normal.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4714.851

It's supposed to.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4716.932

It means you're kind of growing in new directions. And the cool thing about being flexible and not being that clingy asshole that's always looking for the invite is that when you let people come in and out of your life, they almost always come back.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4734.947

Yeah. And when you let people live their lives, your life gets better. When you let people be who they are and who they're not, your relationships get better. Right. And when you let yourself be who you are, everything gets better. Yeah. You have so much more power than you think. So this exercise is so good. So she did it after she graduated from college. She was so depressed. No purpose.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4764.744

My friends are all gone. I have no life. I hate my fucking body. I'm so fat. I'm out of shape. So I'm like, okay, take out a piece of paper.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4773.628

Draw a line down the center. And I want you to imagine a moment in your life. When you were actually the happiest you've been. And you might not have been happy, but when's the moment that you were the happiest?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4791.574

Yeah, sure.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

480.29

That is an extraordinarily common thing that happens when you either are in a kind of chronic state where you're on edge and you're up in your head and you have anxiety or you have unresolved trauma.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4832.029

Were you exercising?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4834.71

Okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4835.611

Okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4843.934

Okay, great. Yeah. So that's your kind of version and I would say I would even go more granular like what kind of food were you eating and when would you wake up and who are you hanging out with and you were exercising and you were putting yourself out there and so you're really focused on the creative and all that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4868.832

Um, what happened on the weekend?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4926.436

Okay, great. So that's your version and you kind of pick apart some of the details and some of the things was, I was saying yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

493.316

Because what happens is when you're in that state where you're thinking, thinking, thinking, what's next, what's next, what's next, the part of the brain that's actually present to assess and then file long-term memories isn't online. Right. And so you're not actually present to make the memories, even though they're happening.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4933.677

I was putting myself out there. I was exercising. I was dancing.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4938.538

Yes. I was dancing.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4940.518

Okay, great. I was dancing. Like, so there's all these elements, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4944.859

Of energy and exercise and dancing and saying yes. So when I asked my daughter, okay, think about a time in your life where you were actually genuinely the half, like one of the happiest you can think about. It doesn't have to be elation. It could even just be like, well, this is a period of my life where it was actually generally good. And she said, senior year in high school.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4964.046

And that had been four years ago. And I said, well, tell me about it. She's like, well, I would get up for, I would get up.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4968.728

I would go to school. I'd be with my friends all day. I would then exercise seven days a week because I was playing lacrosse. I was in a relationship. I felt good about my body. I was really looking forward to going to college. And so she laid all this stuff out. And I said, great. Now on the other side, piece of the paper, describe your life right now. And she's like, I sleep till noon.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

4990.701

I eat my feelings. I'm single. I hate my body. I have nothing to look forward to. I don't see my friends. And I'm like, great, compare. There's your map. All of the things that were present in your life when you felt even just a little happier. And you could add to your list by going, what other periods of my life did I even just feel more content? And you'll start to see, oh, I got up earlier.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5017.325

I had structure to my day.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5019.346

I was exercising or dancing or doing my art. I was saying yes instead of cocooning in my brain and by myself and just working, working, working, working. And that's your map. You actually know what it feels like. To be.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5034.601

Correct.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5035.582

Your own life gives you the answers. We just allow the busyness of the world and the anxiety in our mind to shield us from what we actually know to be true. And so if you were to add in more yeses, not like more obligations, but yeses to fun.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5054.599

Yes. That you now say, I don't have time.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5058.696

Yes. But when you see it on paper, you go, oh, wait a minute. This is allowing happiness. I have to say one yes or two yeses a month. I got to dance once a month. I have to. You have to. So understanding that this is direct access to your lived experience and happiness makes you more intentional about putting it in.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5081.01

That's the exercise that can help you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5087.837

Yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5096.676

Yes. See, mine's the opposite. At this stage of my life, it's really finding more time to like be with my husband or my kids or a friend and go hike a mountain. Right. It's having the time to read a book.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

510.263

And so I have decades of my life that I'm literally like, I don't really remember what happened in college.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5109.441

And not have to talk. It's cooking. It's gardening. It's spending time with my parents who are getting older. Like I have a different formula now And it's why I have big boundaries because when you're wildly successful, people just want more from you. And the game is actually in saying no to everything that doesn't work for you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5154.344

No, no. It's actually all the research is very clear that you do not achieve happiness by accomplishing something. Yeah. That's actually a recipe for being miserable in your life. Because the second that you go, I mean, you've already achieved, you've already sold out the fucking tour. You accomplished the thing that you thought would make you happy.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

516.725

And my friends, I don't know if this ever happens to you, where you're like, do you remember that party? And you're like, no, I don't remember that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5176.888

But now that it's over, now you don't have anything to make you happy. And so the real secret is how do you make yourself happy now while you're working toward those things? And the way that you make yourself happy now is you do that exercise and you go, oh, I Dummy, like I need to dance.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5197.84

I actually need moments of quiet. I freaking need to exercise. I'm happier when I do. There's my formula. And if I do that now, I'll actually be happy while I'm working on these big goals. And if I'm happier now, I'll be even better at working on this shit instead of being miserable and trashing myself and slogging through the day, hoping that I'll be happier then. Fuck that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

521.906

Well, you have the advantage over me because you guys at least have all the photos.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

526.627

Yes. But then you're like, I don't actually remember being there.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

529.848

Yes. Because you were up here. You weren't in. here. And so I want to teach you some things that are not going to take away your power and your creativity, but it's going to help you be more grounded and settled in your body and

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5300.233

Yes. So there's two tools you can use to push yourself to start. One is something I created called the five second rule. So when it's time to go work on that project and you feel like cleaning your room, you're going to count backwards. Five, four, three, two, one. Move.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5321.748

It actually switches from this part of your brain that's going to make you clean to this part of the brain that's like, go. So that's one thing you can do. The second thing that you can do is this comes from this researcher, psychiatrist dude named Dr. K. He has this big channel on YouTube called The Healthy Gamer. He's way into video gaming addiction.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5341.532

So if you avoid it, here's what you need to say. I know that this is hard and I don't want to do it, but I'm doing it anyway. Acknowledging that you don't want to do it, believe it or not. actually removes the resistance.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5354.995

Yes. Because we wrestle in our brains instead of going, I get it. I don't want to do it. I'm still fucking doing it. And then the final thing I would say about this is don't look for a big block of time. I have this practice called the hot 15 and it is find 15 minutes. And I typically do it first thing in the morning to just inch the ball down the field. That's it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5374.901

If you can do 15 minutes once a week, you'll get the thing done over the semester.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5393.241

We don't want to give you anything else to do. Yeah. Just fucking do what you need to do. Yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5414.318

You don't. Right. Let them think what they're going to think. Let them have their opinions. Let them be uber wealthy. And then let me trust that if the person has chosen me, That's all that matters.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5428.099

Get it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5429.84

Oh, yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5431.6

That is fucking right there.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5436.302

Because you're actually dating him, not his parents. Right.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5447.706

And even more important, don't watch them, watch him. How he treats you when you show up as you is what actually matters. Let him reveal who he is and how he treats you when he's with your family.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5466.629

Exactly.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

547.489

present for all this cool stuff that's happening in your life without losing the edge are you down for this i'm so down okay cool so the first thing i want you to do is i want you as your career's going like this because i'm in this big moment too podcast it's number one in the world move over joe rogan like here comes this 56 year old woman you know hosting this show about improving your life what the fuck is going on and so i want you to imagine that you're on an airplane okay

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5481.849

I think you know it wasn't the right move, which is why you're writing to us for advice, and that's okay.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5486.833

And so recognizing that you didn't handle that well is, it takes a lot of courage. And your friend did not handle her emotions well because she let it sit for two years and then vomited on you. You have to ask yourself this because you're going to go let them. Let them be emotionally immature. Let me be emotionally immature. Right. Like, give myself some grace. Ask yourself, is this a relationship?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5511.772

That you really do want to repair. Because the fact that she called you, it comes from hurt. She actually misses you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5522.48

And doesn't understand why you left. It is so painful when somebody walks out of your life without explanation.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5529.026

Because you don't know what you did wrong.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5531.307

And so you have to ask yourself, is this something that A, you want to repair, and And B, you're going to regret ghosting this person. Do you just need to clean it up? And you could do that with a letter. You could do that with a voice memo. You could write an email and say, I've been thinking a lot about what you said. And while it was painful to hear, like it's, you had the right to say it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5554.607

I would love to talk to you in person and actually clean up the mess that I made. And then let them respond. But you get to choose what you're going to do next. What's the prescription? I don't know what to tell them.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5571.66

You know.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5579.001

Yes, it doesn't.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5599.681

Oh, well, I think you're actually psychologically in a good place because you're not going to slip and say your ex's name and be in trouble.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5612.387

Go for it. For sure.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5624.909

Okay, two different issues. Did he lie to you about going to the strip club? Because he's allowed to do what he does with his friends.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5634.139

That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not he hid it from you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5646.721

Are you worried that he fucked somebody at the strip club? He's allowed to go to a legal establishment as an adult with his friends.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5656.604

Cheating?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5657.484

To go to a strip club?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5660.365

No?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5661.566

No, absolutely not. I think the problem is if somebody lies about it or is shady about it or if you're with somebody that's doing coke and might be screwing somebody in the back room at the strip club. Right. That's a different issue. This is something that somebody is allowed to do. It is legal. The issue, that's your issue, not his.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5678.785

So that's number one. The second one was, what was the second question?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5690.088

Well, she is actually collapsing the two issues.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5694.33

So she's judging him for doing something that makes her feel insecure. Right. You got to let him live his life and you got to deal with your own insecurity. Right. And now you're trying to punish him and say, oh, you're going to spend it on that that I don't approve of and not spend it on me.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5708.936

The actual issue that you're talking about is you don't feel considered by him. Yes. Which is there is something about the fact that he is not operating in a way that makes you feel like a priority. Probably has a lot less to do with money. But now you're picking a fight about it over this thing called the strip club. Right. This is an issue about I don't feel like a priority to you. Right.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5734.819

Yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5736.341

Because what we, what I used to do when I was like out of control and a walking red flag is I would find one thing like the strip club and I would blow that up into a gigantic thing when the real issue is I just don't feel like I'm a priority.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

575.197

It's moving 500 miles an hour, which is that what your life feels like?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5751.876

And, you're scared to say it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5755.564

Let them be who they are. Let them string you along. Let them go to the strip club. And then let me ask myself, is this the table scraps or the relationship I'm looking for? Is this kind of a turnoff to me?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5765.349

Okay. Then do something about it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5767.97

Yeah. They're not the problem. You are, if you're accepting this stuff in your life.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5788.213

No, seriously. I watched in heartbreak as my oldest daughter would obsess over how she thought her younger sister was prettier, had perfect pitch, had a better body, all the guys flocked to her, has perfect fashion. The other thing that really pissed her off is that Her sister could borrow her clothes because she was skinnier, but she couldn't borrow her sister's clothes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5809.577

Like fucking infuriating, right? Right. And so... Oh, I'd freak out. Yes. Yeah. So here's the thing. We tend to engage in something called upward comparison.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5823.728

Which is you look around and see all the people that look shinier and better, and then you compare yourself to them. We don't engage in...

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

583.02

Okay, great. The plane can go as fast as you want.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5834.4

downward comparison like if you're obsessed with everybody who's skinnier than you that's all you see because the filter in your brain is the for you page right you don't ever look around and go wait a minute i'm actually skinnier than 90 of the people at this bar right and if you're going to compare up you better fucking compare down and actually look at reality

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

585.921

The plane is your life.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5854.927

And you also have to start to learn that other people's wins are not your losses. And comparing yourself to somebody else's fixed attributes, like there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your height. You can't change your family. You can't change your history. You can't change your complexion. You can't change the country you were born into. You can't change the past.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5882.095

Obsessing over the fact that somebody has a trust fund and you don't doesn't give you a trust fund. It makes you miserable. Everything can be changed through effort and time and attitude. Everything.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

589.302

You have a different job. Uh-huh. You have to sit in the seat on the plane and you have at least one foot on the ground. And I want you to focus on being in the seat and enjoying the Celsius that you're drinking. Right? And then occasionally you're going to look out the window and you're going to look how fast we're going.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5893.285

But the more that you stare at your sister and tell yourself that she's beautiful and you got fucked and life isn't fair and everybody flocks to her and buys her drinks while you stand there like a fucking loser next to her, then the less you're actually going to see the gifts that you have and take advantage of them.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5912.869

See, comparing yourself to other people is normal. Comparison isn't the problem. It's what you do with it that matters. And so if you use comparison to torture yourself like you do over height, right, that is just a habit of bashing yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5929.963

My daughter did the same thing about her metabolism and her sisters and her body versus her sisters and blah, bitty, blah, bitty, blah, bitty, blah, bitty, blah. That is a form of self-torture. At some point, you got to go, life isn't fair. They got the genes. I did not. And I got to look at the cards that I've been dealt. I got to figure out how to play the fucking hand that I have.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5949.868

And I'm not going to become better at life or be a great card player if all I do is trash myself for the cards that I'm holding. Right. Now, this is where comparison gets interesting.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5959.75

Because you're going to compare yourself to other people, as long as it's not something that's fixed, like height or your history, or maybe you hate the fact that your parents got divorced and your friend has the perfect family, whatever the fuck it is. As long as it's not something like that, comparison is like the coolest thing in the world because other people are never playing against you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

5980.798

I mean, other people are not playing against you. They're playing with you in life. Right. See, you can learn how to play the cards in your hand from other people. Right. You can be a better player in life by learning from other people. Absolutely 99% of the things.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6004.307

Yes.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6005.368

Yes. So 99% of the things that you want in life, you can actually create through effort and attitude and time. Right. And other people will never block your way. Only you can do that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6019.924

Other people can't take what's meant for you. But you can take it away from yourself.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6024.682

And as long as you're fucking staring at somebody else's hand going, this isn't fair, you will never actually see the gift that is in your own hand and learn how to play it. And when you flip comparison from torturing yourself to actually, what could this teach me? Other people show you the formulas for how you can get anything. You want to be an influencer and you're watching Jake?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6045.008

He is showing you the formula every day for what he does. Every fucking day. Instead of sitting there like, well, it's never going to work for me because I'm tall and he's short. You know, right?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6055.829

Instead of blocking your own hand, fucking let him lead the way.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6059.771

Let him be successful. Let him be happiness, success, love, friendship. This shit is in limitless supply.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6066.375

It's there for the creating. But if you're so busy comparing yourself to everybody else and telling yourself that it's never going to happen to you, you will never actually see the truth, which is you could create it too.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6081.299

Actually, it means you can.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6082.62

It's the opposite. See, I used to go through life and see somebody else's wins as I'm losing. She has a boyfriend. I won't get one. They got pregnant first. I'm never going to. Their house is renovated. Now my house sucks. They got the new car. Oh, they're getting better. They have this many followers. Now I can't have it. Oh, Jake was the first.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6097.608

Now I can't be an influencer because all our friends will think I copied him. Of course you copied him. Just like he copied somebody else.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

610.033

But your job is to just be in the seat and to enjoy the Celsius and know that it's your life and the career that has the velocity, but the velocity isn't you. Because otherwise years or a couple of years are going to go by and you're gonna be like, I don't remember being on a tour and it'll be funny to everybody else, but it's not going to be funny to you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6103.972

We're all following the same formula because formulas work. You make it your own by doing it. And the only reason why people don't follow the formula in life is why I'm afraid you're going to think something about, think something negative while I follow the fucking formula and go after creating the life I want.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6123.02

I'm going to prescribe the let them theory. You better read that book.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6138.116

Lovely? Really?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6140.659

Well, I think you were very honest.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6146.84

Well, because I would have just dragged it out of you and that would have been painful.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6150.362

No, I'm proud of you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6152.002

Proud of you. I hope you really absorb this and you take the things that are meant for you and you really cause a shift because you deserve to be happy.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6164.969

Great. Awesome. I love that for you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

6168.07

I love you. Oh my God.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

631.057

And so that's one thing I want you to do. The second thing I want you to do is I'm going to give you a new definition for anxiety.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

637.679

Okay. And this is coming from somebody who literally, I could tell you the whole story about anxiety, but it's boring. I struggled with it for too long because I didn't know what it was. And I'm going to give you the most simple definition. You ready? Anxiety is just a moment in your life where you feel a little uncertain.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

656.647

And you then doubt your capacity and capability to handle it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

664.009

That's all that it is.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

670.558

Well, you know that's related to anxiety.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

672.559

OCD is about trying to control something because you're triggered by uncertainty or past trauma.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

694.709

What is a bad thing that's going to happen?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

712.278

Okay. That's like my, what would happen if you lost everything?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

736.721

So let's go back to the definition of anxiety, which is a moment where you feel uncertain.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

742.323

And then what do you doubt?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

745.924

Correct. So anxiety isn't all of this scary shit. anxiety is a very normal moment where you feel uncertain because it's a sign that you're mentally well.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

757.859

That's a sign that your brain's working correctly, by the way.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

760.8

Because you should worry about that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

763.821

Because it means you're a responsible business person and you actually want to make a difference and you don't want to offend people. You just like want to entertain people.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

772.025

So that's a sign that you're actually mentally healthy, by the way.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

775.646

So the thing about anxiety, say, take that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

781.128

Mel Robbins said I'm mentally healthy.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

783.409

Yes, you are, damn it. And so the thing I want to keep coming back to, because this will change your fucking life, is in any moment that's uncertain, if you make the mistake of going up into your head, which I did for 50 years, you go right up in your head and go, fuck, fuck, fuck. What if this? What if that? What if the other thing? Because you feel uncertain.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

805.529

You disconnect from the power to face it. So anytime you're up here, you're actually in danger when you're feeling anxious. And I want you to go, oh, wait, I'm just doubting my ability to handle it.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

819.176

I got to take a deep breath because right here is where your power is. Right here, you're in your body. Take a deep breath and just go, okay, I actually believe that I can face anything. You know what, even if the shit hit the fan, I'm capable of figuring this out. If you just start to say that as your mantra, I'm capable of figuring this out.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

841.135

Everything will change because you're not allowing your brain to hijack the moment. And you're saying, no, no, no, no, I get it. This moment feels a little uncertain. I've never gone on a tour. It's a live situation. Don't want to say something that somebody, you know, might be filming.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

856.944

That's a reasonable thing to be uncertain about, but I actually believe in my ability to handle this. The more you start to say that, the more you will not default to going up here. See, the interesting thing about OCD, and I think the let them theory is really going to help you, is that this is actually a book about control.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

87.952

Oh, I can't believe I'm here.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

877.327

That's what this book is about. And you seem a lot like I was when I was younger, where I...

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

885.492

didn't understand that the more i tried to control things that i couldn't control the more anxious and out of control i felt and the hardest thing in life is recognizing that the one thing you'll never be able to control is another person what they do what they think what they say what they feel right never

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

905.086

And so understanding that what's happening out there and in other people's lives, let them. The second part is going to change your life, Jake, because when you say let me, you remind yourself in life, there's only three things you can control. You can control what you think about something. And that's the whole what if.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

924.199

And the other thing I'm going to give to you that I want you to start saying when you guys catch him on the what ifs, be like, what if it all works out, Jake?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

94.143

We have so much to talk about.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

942.365

But are you capable of figuring it out?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

949.309

No, seriously. If things don't work out, could you figure it out?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

953.631

Great. Then you need to start saying that.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

956.152

Because the fact that you constantly go upstairs is just what you're used to doing. And I'm telling you, you can teach yourself to start saying things like, well, what if it does work out? Right. I know I'm scared that it's not going to, but what if it does? Because here's the thing. Do you actually know if things are going to work out?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

972.591

Great. So if you're going to actually presume the negative, then you actually owe it to yourself to also presume the positive because you don't know. And here's what I'm going to tell you why you need to do this. So you need to start presuming the positive because your brain is wired to help you.

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

992.247

Like nobody gets this. Like every, you know, are you somebody that believes in manifesting?

Therapuss with Jake Shane

Session 60: Mel Robbins

997.29

Okay. Well, you got to watch it. You got to watch this because if you constantly go, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. What if this, what if that, what if the other, you're manifesting what you don't want.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1012.104

And for those of you that are obsessed with influencer culture and affiliate marketing and all this stuff, I guarantee you, you waste probably 10 hours a week just thinking looking at other people who have built what you want to build. And that is also a recipe for disaster because you will start to convince yourself that they already took it, that you can't do it, and you're looking at it wrong.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1038.168

There is a formula to everything. And so here I am at this point in my life where I need money. I still need to pay my bills and pay off my debt. People are starting to ask me to speak. I'm realizing everybody else at every one of these conferences that I'm going to, and I'm off in the little side room, you know, doing my thing, everybody else is getting paid. And so there's always a formula.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1060.105

And it's your inability to wipe away the excuses and stop comparing yourself and stop talking yourself out of it that keeps you from realizing there's a simple formula for everything. In fact, you are so generous because you put out content that provides a roadmap. You tell the stories from your own career and building your business. And in those stories are takeaways.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1088.678

You are literally selling advertising and monetizing brand partnerships for podcasts that the person that's listening to this right now listens to. And you share how you do it all the time. And so again, case in point, the problem isn't, I don't know how to do that. Yes, you do. Because there's people like you that put out content that actually teach people how to do it. And that's a gift.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1116.508

And how sad is it that you know and you see the steps? This was me, by the way. This is why I get so fired up about it. Because every day, just like I see, you probably see people like the person who's listening to us right now, who has in their heart what they want, and they're actively working against themselves. And there's not a single person on the planet that can take anything from you.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1137.937

Nobody can block your path to success. Only you can do that.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1481.863

Everything. Absolutely everything. Life is the greatest teacher if you're willing to look at life like one giant lesson. And I choose to believe that absolutely everything that has happened to me is divinely ordered for a reason. Absolutely everything. See, I don't learn what I need to learn when I'm successful and I'm soaring and I'm at the top.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1507.905

I learn for whatever reasons when I'm at the bottom of the barrel or when I am in a hole or when I am struggling or when things are really hard. I feel like courage and strength and that secret sauce that makes you successful and makes you who you are, those are the things that happen in the hardest moments of your life and they also happen in the smallest moments

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1534.133

quietest moments if you're paying attention.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1537.495

And I'm gonna share some examples for this because first things first, as you're spending time with us together today, I want you to think about the fact that if you stand in the present moment and you look backwards, you can see how absolutely every single thing that has happened to you, good or bad, scary or beautiful, terrorizing or fantastic, every single thing, has led you to this moment.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1563.735

And that you are never starting from scratch, you are always starting from experience. Because life has tested you, life has taught you, life has prepared you for this exact moment. And I also choose to believe, and this is part of what I believe is my amazing success, is that I choose to believe as I stand in this moment

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1587.026

that just like everything in the past has prepared me for where I am now, that this moment is preparing me for where I am going next. And I don't need to know when in the future I'm going to look up and go, oh my God, it was that particular day in Manhattan sitting down with you that I learned X. And that has equipped me for this moment now.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1616.693

And so some of the things that have informed the way that I think about media, the way that I think about my business, because I'm kind of old school, I really think that my business is about one person. It's about the one person that has hit play and that is taking time to listen to this conversation.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1637.023

And just like when I take a walk with a friend, that my intention is to know that whoever it is that is listening, yes, you right now as you're driving your car, as you're at the gym, that you are the person I'm talking to because I am. And I also know that everything that I'm about to share with you is relevant for somebody that you care about.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1657.165

And so whether you get a tremendous amount out of this or you just feel a little bit better, you know somebody that is going to get something out of this, which means you can use this conversation to strengthen a relationship with somebody. And so I have always approached everything that I do with this sort of how can I help and one person.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1678.102

And there's small moments in my life that really inform me. And I'm going to share this story because like there's this obsession with virality and monetization and all of this stuff in business, which is important. And another thing that has really helped me is I 1000% believe in full ownership of everything that I do. And so I control everything because I believe in what I do.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

170.953

The moment you have an instinct to move, you have to move within five seconds or your brain will kill your motivation to act.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1703.92

So why on earth would I give somebody else a meaningful stake when I'm the one doing all the work, when I'm the one that created the five-second rule and created the let them theory? And so why would I not keep control of these things? And why would I trust someone else's authority more than my own to be able to market these things?

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

1723.527

Because I also understand digital media, which unlike a printed book, digital media is going to live forever. Everything that you do on social media or on your YouTube channel or all of it is something you can monetize forever. So just like Bruce Springsteen doesn't want to give his catalog of music away, he's going to sell it and have a library that he owns the rights of.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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I think about things that I invest my time in now as what do I actually own? Because that is an asset. versus a piece of content that you're singularly monetizing. And so for me, when I look back on my life, there are defining moments and there are surprising moments.

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And I'm gonna take you on a quick highlight tour because those defining moments actually explain why I am one of the most intentional people you will ever meet. And I weave it through everything I do in business. So when I was a public defender, my first job, 1994, I graduate from Dartmouth College, then I go to Boston College Law School.

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My first job was as a public defender for the Legal Aid Society. I represented people here in New York City that had been arrested and accused of crimes, and they could not afford an attorney. And I would meet them after they had been arrested and thrown into a jail cell and then transported to 100 Center Street, where they would be held in a cage behind a judge.

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And they would be brought into court to be read the charges against them, to be read their constitutional rights, and to be assigned an attorney and to get a constitutionally mandated bail hearing. And I would meet my clients because these are people who could not afford representation.

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My secret to success is very simple. I get out of fucking bed when I don't feel like it. End of story.

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They were assigned by the state because you have a constitutional right to be represented in a court of law by a licensed attorney. And I would walk back behind the judge and I would meet my client for the very first time. in that setting. They were behind bars and I had a little folder that had the complaint from the police. And if they had ever been in trouble before, I had a history of that.

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If they hadn't, there wouldn't be that. And that was it. And so that experience taught me a number of things. First of all, it taught me that no matter the circumstances under which you meet somebody, that I choose to believe in the innate worthiness of human beings. I do. I choose to treat people with dignity. And I choose to see bigger possibilities

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for everybody, no matter what circumstances I may meet you in. And one of the things that hit me in my heart is that when we would go out and it was time for my client that I was representing to be charged, formally charged, part of that arraignment hearing is a bail hearing.

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And one of the things that the courts consider is obviously the charges against you and the severity of them, your history, some of your life story, but the big one is also ties to the community. I cannot tell you how many times we would walk out into that courtroom in 1994, 95, and 96, and nobody would be there. no one, over and over and over again.

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And it just killed me that in one of the scariest times in a person's life, no one was there. And I have never, ever, ever forgot what that felt like. And I have made it a mission, my mission to show up

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for people, whether that means that I'm leaving a public bathroom and I take a moment and thank the human being that is cleaning the public bathroom, because that's a job where you feel invisible, or it is truly apologizing and thanking people for their patience when I'm late,

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Yes. You're never going to get what you want if you don't begin. And if you don't know what you want, here's how you figure that out. There's one thing in life you can never control. It's other people. The Let Them Theory is the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered. It is a simple mindset tool that shows you immediately what is in your control and what is not in your control.

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And so that has informed me about how I want to treat people and how I want people to experience me, that I'm the kind of person that actually cares and that sees something bigger for you. No matter where you are, no matter what you've done, no matter what circumstances you face, I believe in the extraordinary possibilities that you have, because I understand something.

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I understand that your past is not your fault. I understand that if you aren't doing well, it's not a matter of willpower, it's a matter of skill building. And I also believe that absolutely everybody, if you focus on your mindset, if you focus on your actions, if you focus on how you process your emotions, that absolutely anybody can do better and be better and feel better.

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And the other thing that that experience taught me is just that it's the simplest things that people remember. And this is a marketing message, okay? The more complicated you make things, the less likely anybody is going to do it. the more intellectual you are. You know what, you're communicating when you're intellectual that I think I'm smarter than you.

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Yes, right? And so I'm obsessed with making things simple. And so these are core values about really showing up in a way that people feel seen, that people know that you believe in them, that people know that you respect their time, that people know that I see the possibility in you because I do see it. This isn't just some bullshit that I say. I actually believe it.

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The other thing that really struck me is another moment. So there was this whole thing that happened when I started speaking, that when I first started speaking, I thought, okay, if you're in the speaking business and somebody is paying you a ridiculous amount of money to stand on a stage, you better be dressed nicely.

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And so even though it was like at a time, and so I'm talking probably like 2015, 2014, something like that, I start getting paid. And I'll never forget this. I was at the MGM in Vegas and I was speaking for Remax and there were like 8,000 people in the audience. And it was one of the biggest speeches that I was ever going to give at the time, of course.

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And so I, at the time, was dressing like a news anchor. So I would wear heels. You look beautiful today. Normally, I look not so pulled together. But so I would look great on a stage. So I'm in heels, which I never wear, so I can't walk in them very well. And I'm wearing a dress.

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And what happened is I have terrible ADHD, and I get to Vegas, and it turns out when I open up my suitcase at 7.30 in the morning, I have left my high heels in a hotel room in Miami. And what I have in my suitcase are Birkenstocks. Oh, no. And these sparkly high tops. That's it. And I have tech check in 20 minutes. Most people would have stress diarrhea and then just derail the situation.

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And here's how you use it. There's two steps. That's step one.

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And I'm like, fuck it. Okay, I guess we're going with the high tops because we're not wearing Birkenstocks on this stage. And remember how I said that your life is always teaching you and it's either in the struggles or it's in these quiet little moments. So I get backstage and when you're backstage speaking at a big event,

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It's very dark and there's like a whole city behind the stage of people in production and everybody's dressed in all black and there's equipment everywhere and tables everywhere and cables everywhere. And then there's all this tenting that is the back of the stage and you're kind of walking around and it's hard to see.

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And normally, especially if it's like eight o'clock in the morning in Vegas, for crying out loud, and you're speaking at a massive corporate conference for Remax, the client was, and I was going to give a speech about the five second rule. Everyone's tired. So I walk back there and they're miking me up for the tech check that we're going to do before 8,000 people come into the MGM.

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And one of the older guys dressed in all black, he's got a graying beard. He turns, he's like, cool kicks. And it was the first time that anyone backstage, even though I was super nice and friendly and not dramatic at all and not high maintenance, it was the first time anybody had ever commented like that. And that was this small moment that I was like, take note.

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Yes. Why are we so hardwired for control to begin with? Because if you're in control, then you feel safe. But the problem is...

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And so then I go up on stage and as I walked on stage, I felt different. And that was a small moment that was like, take note.

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And normally if you're a woman who's presenting, most people, whether it's male, female, they, everybody, when a woman walks on stage, if you're too pretty, if your heels are too high, most people kind of cross their arms and are like, this bitch thinks she looks better than the rest of us. And there's a distance that happens because you're focused on what you look like.

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And you're focused on presenting yourself in a way that is,

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projecting something well god when i walked on stage in these stupid high tops that are all sparkly and this dress that didn't match and my dumb glasses people were like what is this like and so there was an open arm thing and so typically it would take me like five to ten minutes and a couple laughs to get to that point in a speech that i call i'd have a cup of coffee with her moment

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which is now somebody's listening and enjoying instead of judging. Take note. And from that moment on, couple things. Number one, in any industry that you're in, being able to be excellent at the thing is the minimum requirement. the minimum requirement. You shouldn't be on a stage if you're not excellent. You shouldn't be charging people if you're not excellent.

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You need to take pride in your performance, which means you need to practice. This is my opinion. I'm going to let you do whatever you want, but really don't hang your hat on the fact that you're fantastic at the thing they're paying you to do. You want to be exceptional? Be fucking fantastic at the things no one pays you to do.

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What made me an extraordinary force on the corporate circuit and what has earned me extraordinary amounts of money is, yes, there is, in my opinion, almost no one better. I don't know of anyone better on stage. And I'm sure there's extraordinary people out there, but I will claim that for myself for sure. Category of one of one when it comes to what I do.

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But I know for sure there's no one better when it comes to what I do offstage. Because I learned very quickly that it's the little things that you do that make people feel taken care of, that then make people want to work with you, that make people want to hire you. And I'll give you a simple example.

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When I was doing 115 speeches a year, Starbucks, JP Morgan, Microsoft, like on and on and on and on from one event to the other event to this event to that event, 30,000 people, 100 people with a CEO retreat, this one. Every time I landed in a new city, I would always text the event planner Not the CEO, not the person that hired me.

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I would text the event planner a fun selfie of me getting off the plane. I'm here. Thank you. Excited to see you. And you know what that did? That immediately made the person who is responsible for tracking me and who is responsible for managing a million things love me because I just took one thing off their list and made their job easy. And when you do that, guess what people do?

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They hire you again. They recommend you. And people are obsessed with the people up here when you need to be amazing with the people that serve the people up here. Because those are the folks that have the power. Those are the ones that get everything done. And it is the exact same principle if you want to grow a social media audience. It's responding to comments.

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It's actually tracking your name or your brand and going to their account and responding. That is the exact same thing that I was doing in person in the speaking business. And so those are examples of how there are little things that I'm obsessive about. Like everybody in my company on a production day actually wears name tags. Because I used to host a daytime talk show.

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I've been at a bazillion events. It's impossible to remember people's names. Yeah. And so when you walk into 143 Studios in downtown Boston, you're going to walk into 25 people. We're going to stand up and welcome you together. Everybody has a name tag. Why? Because I want you to feel at ease. I want you to feel comfortable. I want the people that work for me to feel seen and recognized.

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When you're done with the podcast and we walk out, you get a standing ovation because we're grateful that you're here. And so every tiny little thing I do is with intention on making a particular type of impact. And so there are stages to this. I mean, first, you got to get started. Second, you got to learn how to just keep going because the other thing that is a skill is stamina.

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I believe that success is as much about not quitting as anything else. As anything else. And it may surprise you to learn that with this book, The Let Them Theory, this is truly the first time that I've had a major moment in terms of the normal press cycle.

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I have a lot of friends because I'm in mastermind groups and you actually represent and sell ads and do brand partnerships for a lot of my friends. And that's another thing I'm going to tell you that has been a secret to success. And it's that the very people you're competing against should be your closest friends. It's so true. Why do you believe that's true?

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That and I think it's true at any level. We're just so insecure. when we're getting started that we don't think we have anything to offer. And the truth is your family has no idea what you're doing. Your friends don't understand what you're doing. And the people that you think you're competing with are the only people on the planet that get it.

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And so the very people that you're distancing yourselves from should be your closest allies because otherwise you are going to feel alone. Because your family's not in this business, so they don't understand the stress. Your friends don't share the same aspirations, so they don't know what you're going through. But the people at your same level, this is your squad because they get it.

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And honestly, that's why I'm so excited about the let them theory and the things that I'm talking about now, because for far too long, For far too long, I would look at people that I admired, like Jay Shetty and Lewis Howes and Jenna Kutcher and Amy Porterfield and Trent Shelton, and I would go, oh, oh, well, they've already done a podcast. I guess I can't do one. Or they're super successful.

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They're in competition with me. And what I have learned too late, I'm so happy I understand this. And I'm thrilled for you as you're listening to us to really embrace what I'm about to tell you. Success is in limitless supply. Happiness, friendship, all of these things, money, Lamborghinis, they're in limitless supply. No other human being is blocking your way. In fact, they're leading the way.

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And if you have a insecure and jealous and competitive and comparison attitude, you will turn other people into the biggest excuse for why you can't do what you need to do. And it is a joke because there's only one person that can actually block your way and it's you. And so learning how to let other people be successful

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and let other people be rich and let other people figure it out and let them get engaged and let them have babies and let them have a million dollars in the bank and let them do this and let them do that. You're just letting them lead the way.

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So I put up a video, gosh, it was like 18 months ago. And I basically was sharing about something I had just stumbled on because I was being a micromanaging parent at my son's prom. And my middle daughter was home from college. And you know, like when your mom's being like super annoying.

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And you're like, God damn, geez, mom. I was getting like that. Well, we've all been there, right? And it's just her stupid side. And my daughter reaches out and grabs my arm and yanks me towards her and says, mom. Stop it. You're being so annoying. Let them, let them, let them run in the rain. Let them eat where they want. Let them do this. And she just kept saying, let them, let them, let them.

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And it was weird. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. Why am I worried about this? Why am I stressing about this? And for the next couple of days, anytime somebody was pissing me off or annoying me, or I saw somebody do something online that made me feel jealous, or somebody did something that made the guilt rise up, I just started saying, let them.

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Standing in line at a store and there's five people in front of you, beep, beep, beep. There's only one cashier. No one's coming to the other lines. How do you feel in that moment?

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Yeah. And then what do you do?

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You think you can run the grocery store better than the people running it, uh-huh. And all along while that's happening, do you know what's happening? You're actually allowing something to drain your life force.

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and you are wasting time, and you are allowing something that's out of your control to steal your time and energy and blind you to the fact that even in moments where you feel stressed out or hurt or you're worried or you're scared, that there is always something in your control. And what's in your control is never out there, ever. There's one thing in life you can never control.

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It's other people. You can't control what they think. You can't control what they do. You can't control the timeline upon which they change, if they change at all. You can't control if they're going to love you. You cannot control another human being, and yet we try. And it's the greatest source of frustration in your life.

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But if you turn it back, you'll see there's three fingers always pointing back at you when you point at somebody else, because there are three things that are always in your control. You can always control what you think about what's happening. You can always control what you choose to do or not do. And you can always control how you process your emotions.

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Whether you will let them just run you over and then you send that text or have you ever crafted one of those emails like single space and it's like super long and you take like 90 minutes and you're like, send.

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That never solves anything. You always get to choose how you respond. And that's how you take responsibility for your life. Let's talk about responsibility. It's the ability to respond. That's what taking responsibility means.

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What'd you do?

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It's a great example. And being hurt because you're not included is a sign that you're mentally well. It's what you do with that that dictates your experience of life. And like you, all too often when I have either been left out of something or people don't even think of me because I haven't been around, because I've been busy building a business, so why would they think of me?

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Or if it's when I see somebody else succeeding and then I feel sorry for myself, right? Feeling those things is normal. It's what you do next that matters. So the let them theory is the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered. I'm so excited for you to implement this. Seriously, I am a changed human being. I've never felt more peaceful and powerful. So what is the let them theory?

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It is a simple mindset tool that shows you immediately what is in your control and what is not in your control. And here's how you use it. There's two steps.

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Anytime that you are in a situation where you're starting to feel stressed out or you're starting to get pissed off or you're hurt or you're annoyed or you're getting clingy or you're becoming a victim or you're feeling the rage come up, you're going to say, let them. That's step one. When you say let them, you detach from what's happening and you recognize that

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that I can't control this person, what they think, say, or do, or feel, or I can't control what's happening with traffic right now. So I am going to let them. And when you say let them, a couple of things happen. First of all, you get this rush of superiority because it's like you're going, I see what's happening and I value my time and energy.

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And I know I'm not going to waste it trying to manage this situation or allowing this person or this situation to impact me negatively. I'm going to let them. And so it's amazing because you detach. And then the second step is you say, let me. And this is the most powerful part because this is where you take your power back.

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When you say, let me, you then remind yourself that there's always something in your control. And what's always in your control are the three things. I can choose what to think about this. I can choose how to respond to this or not. And I can choose what I'm gonna do with my emotions. And the uses are just endless because we live in a moment in time where everything feels out of control.

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And people are stressed out and people are acting in really inconsiderate and dismissive ways. And people are super emotionally immature. Let them, because so are you. We all are right now. And when you say let them, it's not like an F you. It's really about giving people grace and space and also putting up a boundary and reminding yourself it's not your job to make people happy.

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It's not your job to manage other people's stress. It's not your job to make sure that everybody's expectations are met. It's not your job to run a grocery store. Your job is to focus on taking actions that really align with your values and your priorities. And your job is to think in a way that makes you feel good. I'll give you a quick example.

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We were in an elevator this morning and the thing got stuck between the 11th and 12th floor. I was in there for 50 minutes. And the fire department had to come, but it was a good 15 minutes before anybody came to do anything. And I sat there on the floor of that elevator and I kept saying, let them, let them take a long time. Let them figure this out.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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And let me remind myself that the only thing I can control right now is just staying calm and sitting on the floor and thinking that this is going to be okay. Let them. And it worked. And so in your business, let's just take everybody that listens to you, right? Yeah. I want you to think about that moment where you are posting something on social media.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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And you go and you pick the reel or you pick the photo, right? And then what do you do? Then you're like, oh, should it be that? Should it be this? And then you put a filter on and then you take the filter off and then you size it. And it's one thing to do this because you have a business strategy and you're thinking about your business strategy. It's another thing to do this.

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I'm so excited to talk to you.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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And then when you start to write the caption, you're like, is this too much? Should I put an emoji? Is that CTA? And then you start to question for who? For who? Before you even post something, what are you doing? You're giving power to what other people are going to think and do in response to what you're about to post. And by the way, you have no control over what they think and do in response.

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And so instead of managing it, I have a different approach. Let them think something negative. Let them unfollow you. Let them judge you. Let them roll your eyes because I got news for you. You need to use the let me part. Let me remind myself that my social media is for me. My social media is for my business. My social media is my self-expression.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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It's not for my family or my freaking friends from college or my brother or my sister. My social media is for me. Let me express myself. Let me market my business. Let me show up and put this reel out, even though I'm kind of nervous. Feeling nervous about something that you care about is a sign that you care about it. It's not a sign that things aren't going to go well.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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And so by saying let them, it's extraordinary what's happened in my life.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Absolutely. So it's going to be a dance because you're never going to get rid of the need of trying to control things. It is a hardwired survival instinct. And it kind of makes sense, right?

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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Because if you're in control of what you're thinking and you're in control of your decisions and you're in control of your environment and you're in control of your spending and you're in control of your marketing platform and your strategy that you're doing, then you feel safe. You feel confident. You feel good. Here's the problem.

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That if you do something that makes me worried or upset, guess what? Now I feel like I'm out of control. And here's where we make the mistake. I then go to try to control you. But the problem is you have a hardwired need to be in control of yourself too. And so I go to push against you, which means you're hardwired to push back because you are wired to control what you're doing.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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And this is one of the biggest things that you're going to learn in reading the Let Them Theory, just using it in your life, is that pushing other people and expecting other people to change, trying to motivate other people to change, it actually doesn't create change. It creates resistance to change.

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There is one thing on this planet you will never, ever, ever, ever be able to control, and that's whether or not another person changes. Because people only change when they're ready to change. And people only are ready to change when they're ready to do the very hard work to change. And this presents another problem.

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And see, I've been working against the fundamental wiring of human beings for 54 years. It was learning to say let them and let me that taught me how to work with change. the laws of human nature and with brainwire. Let's just talk about how people change. Okay. We are hardwired to move toward what's easy. Hardwired. It's why we sit on the couch instead of going to the gym.

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It's why you sit and watch other people's content instead of posting your own. Because if it were easy to do it, everybody would have a million dollars. And that's why you got to learn how to take action even when it feels hard. See, nobody gets sober until being drunk is harder than doing the work to change because it takes work. And we know this.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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And yet when we're looking at somebody and we're like, you're not working hard enough. Why aren't you getting better grades? How come you haven't gotten a better job? Why haven't you started this business? We forget. that if it were easy, they'd already be doing it. And so the let them theory and saying, let them, let them struggle. Let them be unmotivated. Let them judge your choices.

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Let them be confronted by the fact that you're now super interested in fitness and entrepreneurship. And they're questioning why you don't drink all the time. Let them. And then let me remind myself that I get to choose what's a priority for me. And so you will start to learn that the more time you spend expecting other people to change, the more frustrated you're going to be.

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And the more that you say let them and you learn to let people be who they are and let them have their questions and let them change on their own timeline and let them not be interested in the same things that you're interested in. Learn how to love people exactly as they are and exactly as they aren't. the better your relationships are gonna get.

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It's really so simple and it's beautiful because it creates space where the people in your life get to be who they are and you get to focus on yourself, not like you're out of my life, but as a responsible adult. And the let me part is all about you taking responsibility for acting in a way that you value. So let me talk about another thing that happens a lot in business.

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So as you're growing your business, you're going to start to find conflict between what your friends and family want you to do and what your business partners want you to do. And a lot of people really start to struggle when they feel like business partners are disappointed that you can't show up at something or your family or friends are disappointed that you're not around as much.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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You need to say, let them. Let them be disappointed. And here's why. Isn't it a wonderful thing if your business partner's disappointed that you can't show up for something? Doesn't that mean they want you there? I mean, we're so afraid of it, and yet what's the alternative? I don't want her there. She's like horrible. Same thing with your parents or your friends.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Well, I really appreciate you acknowledging the difference that the five-second rule and that countdown technique, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, move. how it helped you, but I want to say back to you, you have to keep the credit because you did the work. No, I'm serious. It is easy to talk about motivation. It's easy to give people advice.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If you're not able to show up because you've been just focused on entrepreneurship, let them be disappointed. It means they love you and they wish you were there. That doesn't mean you have to change.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Let them be bad. Let them get fired? First of all, you can't control them. So you need to let them reveal who they are. But then here comes the hard part in business. Let me be honest with myself. Have I actually been clear about my expectations? Probably not. Have I explained what I think the outcome is that is successful? Probably not. Probably not.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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Am I micromanaging everybody because I don't explain what I want and the outcomes that you can measure success by? And since I have not done that, I constantly question everybody.

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So I swoop in and I micromanage, which only trains your team that you don't trust them, which makes your team feel like they can't make a decision because you're going to come in and override everything anyway, which creates paralysis in your organization.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If you have a failing employee, it is usually because you have broken process or you have unclear communication and expectations, or there is a missing skill set in the seat and they're in the wrong seat. And unless you as the leader take full responsibility for your part, which most entrepreneurs, most entrepreneurs are the shittiest operators on the planet. I happen to be one of them.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You are in entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship is artistry. It's creation. That is not the same thing as rhythm, systems, and operations, and clear communication. In fact, it's the opposite. And so your energy and your talent will create something. And then you will realize that you've created something and have zero systems and zero standard business operating principles.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You have no outcomes and key results that you're measuring. And so people don't know what success looks like. And if you only measure success based on dollars in the bank or the number of views on a podcast episode, that is something you cannot control. You have to, as the leader, let me take responsibility for my job, which is to actually create an environment where people can succeed.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And if people don't have clear outlines of what they own, if they don't have clear outlines of what is going to make them successful, and if they don't have the freedom, let them, to execute against that in the way that actually gives them self-expression, they will hate working for you and your business will not do as well as it can. It always comes back to you.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And so, yes, let them reveal that they're not doing a good job, but then instead of doing this, they suck. first say, do I suck? Because chances are you do. And I definitely do. If I am not behind a microphone or creating content or doing business development, which by the way, is a form of creating content and artistry, because everything that I do is about expansion and intention.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If I'm not doing one of those three seats, I'm not in the right seat in my business. And I am the problem. The business, my folks that work for me, they're not the problem. I'm the problem. And so I choose as the leader that my business coach, David Gerbitz, always says, leaders bring the weather. And if you have a stressed out and a panic emergency type situation, Culture, that's because of you.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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It's easy to tell the person who's spending time with us together today, our stories and the things that work for us, but knowledge is cheap and it's free. And if you don't know how to achieve your goals, go to Google, Type in, how do I do this? And AI will spit it out and then say, what does a day in the life of somebody who's launching this and successfully in five weeks look like?

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You bring the rain or you bring the sun. And by the way, your energy and whether or not you take the time to make sure people feel supported and to make sure they know the things they're doing right and to give them the tools and the skills that they need to succeed on the things that aren't going well. If you don't do that, then you're not a good leader.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

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Great, then let them knock it up to speed and then let me give very direct feedback quickly. And don't dance around it with the positivity sandwich. The way you have that is directly with respect. You basically say, this is not gonna be a fun conversation. And I was hoping that things were gonna go very differently. And I have very high standards.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And this is a 19 word sentence that you're gonna steal that has been researched at Yale and Harvard. It's called the magic sentence, 19 words. I have very high expectations for this team and I believe you can meet them and that's why I'm going to tell you this feedback. And then you tell them the feedback and you let them. Because what somebody does with that feedback, that's what they control.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You actually having the courage to deliver feedback. See, I actually think it's cruel to not tell somebody.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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They're not performing.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Well, it's not about them. Do you want to be in an organization where people think you suck and they talk about you in a conference room? Of course not. So why would you do that to somebody and not address it? People know when they're not thriving.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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In fact, I personally believe the hardest working person in the company is the one who's not doing well because they're in conflict with themselves and they know it. And you are either the kind of leader who has this bullshit, toxic male kind of mentality of, you know, or you take responsibility as a leader to create an environment in which people can thrive.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And if people are not doing well and they're not meeting expectations before you start barking about or labeling people, which is toxic behavior on your part, take a moment and ask yourself critically, let me ask myself, have I actually explained the outcomes that measure success? Have I actually explained what I expect?

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Have I actually given somebody all the information that they need in order to succeed? Do I even know what skills are required for this job? Or am I just throwing somebody into the fire and then judging the shit out of them when they can't get the job done? Because if you can't answer those questions for yourself, then you're not the good leader and no one's gonna succeed in that role.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And look, there are times where people overestimate their qualifications and then they get in a seat and they don't have the skills. Let them, let them. And don't overcompensate and fix everything and step in and solve the problems. Let people fail because if you don't, you won't see where there's process missing. You won't see where there's a skill level missing.

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And you won't see where you actually are the issue because you haven't created an environment for people to succeed.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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I personally feel, and this goes with people in your life that are struggling too, absolutely anybody can get better. And what's needed is the belief that you can. And just a simple roadmap of what you need to do. And so at work, what often happens is that people start to feel very discouraged because you know when you're not a person that people go to on the team. You know when things feel off.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You know when you're getting passed over. You know when people... micromanage you. And you know when people don't actually trust your work. And so I personally think that person can still do incredible work in the right environment. And at the end of the day, feeling like somebody believes in your ability to get better creates the space for you to get better.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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There's your map. But that's the easy part. The hard part is making yourself do it, particularly on the days when you don't feel like it. And so I want to acknowledge you for the fact that you both grab the knowledge and then you put it into action. And that's what makes you different. That is what explains my success.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If somebody has the respect for you to say, I'm going to give you this feedback and this isn't going to be a fun conversation, not my favorite thing to talk about, but I'm doing it because I actually have high standards for this team and I believe you can hit them. To me, that's you saying, I see you. We both know you're not meeting the standards here. And what else did I say?

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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I think you can meet them. This team is special. Now I'm appealing to your desire to succeed. I'm appealing to the potential that you know is inside you. I choose to believe that people do well when they can. And if somebody in your team or in your family or in your life isn't doing well, then it's because there's something missing that's making it so they can't. And it's almost never willpower.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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It's usually something small. It's usually just clearer communication or identifying the skill that would be helpful or partnering them with somebody so that you create an environment where they can succeed. And people also need to feel enough space and acceptance and dignity so that you feel like the change is your idea, not that it's getting shoved down your throat.

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Because nobody wants to change if they know that you're going to say, see, I told you so. And that's a critical part of this, that when you say let them, You're not allowing people to fail. You're actually creating the space for somebody to succeed. But the first step is that you have to give people the space and the honesty to make it their decision.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And the other thing that the let them theory is not is it's not allowing somebody to walk all over you. It's not allowing somebody to treat you poorly because you're already doing that. When you say let them, you detach and you see somebody probably for the first time exactly as they are and exactly as they aren't. And you stop doing something.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You stop making excuses and you stop living in the fantasy and the potential and you actually live in the reality. As I'm going through this phase of this next leveling up in my business, I realize it's on me to level up my expectations of myself. It's on me to get clearer in my communication. It's on me to focus on what's truly important and delete everything that's not.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Because another huge thing in business is that if everything's important, nothing is. And you cannot allow someone else's emergencies to become your emergency. You cannot allow somebody else's priority to become your priority. Everything that somebody else is asking of you in business is an opportunity. But you have to get out of reactive mode and get into responding mode.

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Because it's only in doing that that you will actually be intentional and focused and you will truly be strategic about what actually deserves your time and what doesn't. Because not everything in business does.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You are listening to this right now and spending time with us because you actually want to achieve big goals. So I know that about the person that is listening and choosing to spend time listening to this. But I'm going to tell you something. This conversation that you're about to listen to means shit if you don't actually convert it to action. And that's what we're going to talk about.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Let them. Let them. Because all that time and energy and power that you're giving to other people, as soon as you say, let them, and then you say, let me, you actually take that power back and you start to protect your time and energy. And that's what you need to be profitable and successful.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Saying no. It's way more important to say no. Because every time you say no, you're actually saying yes to what matters.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You can find me right here in this conversation right now. And one of the most important things you can do is take this conversation and send it to somebody that you care deeply about because you know you feel inspired. You know you got tools.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And one of the best things that you can do to build your relationships and connections, which you need in business and you need for profit and you need to be successful, is to actually be generous. And so be generous with the information that you just got today because it will make a difference in somebody else's life.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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I'm really proud of you. Thank you. Congratulations for everything that you do and for the lives that you impact and the difference that you're making. Thank you.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Tools, but then it's going to be to you to take the baton and go.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Oh my gosh, yes. So just to put a little back step on this, this would have been 2011. So I'm basically your grandmother now, if you think of this being however many years ago, over a decade ago. Ted was not a thing. Ted was some secret thing that fancy people went to in Seattle. They weren't even online. And so I get asked by a friend if I would give a speech about career change.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And she said, look, a friend of mine is putting on some event in San Francisco, and they're looking for somebody to talk about career change, Mel. And I immediately thought about you. And look, I don't think that's a compliment if... I'm the first person that you think of because it means I've bounced from one career to another, which I had. And she said, here's the catch.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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They're offering you two plane tickets and two nights at the St. Regis. And at the time, my husband and I were $800,000 in debt because his pizza restaurant was failing and like complete idiots, we had secured it with our life savings, our house, our credit cards, everything. And so when you're that in debt, Do you know what two tickets and two nights in a hotel sounds like?

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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That sounds like a free vacation. So I said yes. And the only time I had ever given a speech was in class in high school during a public speaking course. So I said yes so fast. I wasn't even imagining a huge auditorium and that I would have to get up in front of, I don't know, 500 people and talk.

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And when I stepped on that stage, they do not prepare you, or at least they didn't back then, the way they probably do now. It was sort of like, here you go, here's your topic, go. And if you watch my TED Talk, which now has, I don't know, 33 million views, you will notice a minute into that thing,

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha

Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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that I have one of those neck rashes that people get when they've had too much to drink and they're like really blotchy because I was having a complete panic attack. I'm darting around the stage. I'm talking all over the place. And near the end of the speech, I forgot how to end it. And that was one of the defining moments of my life. And there's a theme about defining moments in my life.

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I don't know what your defining moments are like, but mine usually involve embarrassment, too much alcohol, bankruptcy, desperation, panic attack. And in that moment when I froze, I couldn't remember what to say. And so I all of a sudden blurted out this thing, the five second rule, which you know, which you follow, which I'm sure the person listening knows this little motivation hack.

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And I'd never shared it with anybody. And I couldn't think what else to say. And I just went, oh, there's this thing I do. I call it the five second rule. The moment you have an instinct to move, you have to move within five seconds or your brain will kill your motivation to act. I walked off that stage and I thought that was it. And that was not it.

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That was the beginning of something extraordinary.

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Yes.

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Correct.

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It's a great question. And as you're listening to this conversation, whether you're in a car or you're at the gym or you're watching us on YouTube, there is something that you want to do in life, whether it's launching a business or becoming an influencer or monetizing social or building a YouTube following or publishing books, or maybe it's starting your own podcast.

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I don't know what that thing is. Maybe you want to become a touring musician. Maybe you want to start a fashion line. There is something in your heart. Maybe you want a Lambo. I don't know. It's your goals. Whatever it is that you want, I'm here to tell you that you do not need anybody's permission and you do not need to have it all figured out.

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In fact, you're never going to have it all figured out. And every single day that you talk yourself out of beginning or taking one step forward is a day that you're keeping yourself locked in a prison of your own making. Because if you know something that you want, how dare you withhold it from yourself? How dare you talk yourself out of it?

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How dare you sit there and spend more time and energy manufacturing excuses and worrying about what other people think? You get one life. And no one is coming to save you. No one is coming to do the work for you. Nobody is going to pick you from obscurity and make you a star. Nobody is going to build the business that you want to build.

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And while you're sitting there drinking with your buddies, bitching about your current job, or you are sitting there telling yourself, I don't know what to do. Your whole life is waiting for you. There's literally a door right in front of you that is waiting for you to reach out and freaking turn the knob and open it. And I'm going to tell you something. My secret to success is very simple.

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I get out of fucking bed when I don't feel like it. End of story. And if the five second rule taught me anything, it's this. You will never feel ready to do the work. You will never feel like you are capable of achieving what you want. You will never, ever, ever feel like it's your right to say this.

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And so you have to learn the skill of doing the actions that are aligned with your values, your character, and your dreams when you don't feel like it. And that's a skill. And every one of us sits around. I used to sit around and wait to be motivated. Motivation is complete and utter garbage because it's never there when you need it.

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And I even hate all this bullshit out there now about discipline and willpower. Yeah. Forget it. You can actually feel lazy and exhausted and unmotivated. And you can still do it. And sitting around waiting for the feeling to strike you, that is a recipe that will lead you to your deathbed.

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And you'll be one of those people that they study that say, oh man, my biggest regret is I didn't let myself die. be myself. I never went for the things that I wanted to do. I was so worried about what my dad thought or my mom thought or my friends thought that I never started.

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And if you don't start now because you say you're not ready or you're not qualified or whatever, then the next excuse is going to be, well, I should have started then and now I'm too late. And then the next excuse is going to be, well, I'm too old or I have kids or I have a mortgage or I have this or I have that or I have people that depend upon me or I've been in this job for 10 years. And so I

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It's all bullshit. It's all something you manufactured in your own head. And I get fired up about it because it's sad. You don't have to be like this. You don't have to live your life like this. You do not have to let your mother's opinion dictate what you do.

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Well, I think there's also something else that happened. When everything started to build for me, and again, this goes to the point where the first skill is starting because you're never going to get what you want if you don't begin. So you have to actually commit to starting. And there's a very simple way you do it. You just get clear about what you want.

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And if you don't know what you want, here's how you figure that out. Just say, I don't want what I have. Literally, if you don't know what direction to point, just know, well, where I am is not it. So I need to take a look at where I am and the way that I go through my day, and I need to reverse it or do the opposite or make a change because that's gonna pivot you in a different direction.

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And I truly believe that you're one decision away from a completely different life. That doesn't mean you achieve the success that you want with one decision. It means that with one decision, and for me, that decision was getting out of bed when I didn't feel like it. Getting out of bed when I was $800,000 in debt.

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getting out of bed and going for a run, even though I didn't feel like it and it was snowing and it's not gonna make a dent in the debt and the fear that I have, but it's gonna make me know that no matter what's going on around me, I can five, four, three, two, one, still do something that reminds me that I'm still in control in small ways. And so for me, when the TED Talk took off,

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I didn't write a business plan. I didn't. I just started having people say, hey, Mel, will you come speak? And then when I figured out that everybody else was getting paid, first of all, I felt like the world's biggest flipping idiot.

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Everything. Absolutely everything. Life is the greatest teacher if you're willing to look at life like one giant lesson. And I choose to believe that absolutely everything that has happened to me is divinely ordered for a reason. Absolutely everything. See, I don't learn what I need to learn when I'm successful and I'm soaring and I'm at the top.

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I learn for whatever reasons when I'm at the bottom of the barrel or when I am in a hole or when I am struggling or when things are really hard. I feel like courage and strength and that secret sauce that makes you successful and makes you who you are, those are the things that happen in the hardest moments of your life and they also happen in the smallest moments

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quietest moments if you're paying attention.

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And I'm gonna share some examples for this because first things first, as you're spending time with us together today, I want you to think about the fact that if you stand in the present moment and you look backwards, you can see how absolutely every single thing that has happened to you, good or bad, scary or beautiful, terrorizing or fantastic, every single thing, has led you to this moment.

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The moment you have an instinct to move, you have to move within five seconds or your brain will kill your motivation to act.

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And that you are never starting from scratch, you are always starting from experience. Because life has tested you, life has taught you, life has prepared you for this exact moment. And I also choose to believe, and this is part of what I believe is my amazing success, is that I choose to believe as I stand in this moment

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That just like everything in the past has prepared me for where I am now, that this moment is preparing me for where I am going next. And I don't need to know when in the future I'm going to look up and go, oh my God, it was that particular day in Manhattan sitting down with you that I learned X. And that has equipped me for this moment now.

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And so some of the things that have informed the way that I think about media, the way that I think about my business, because I'm kind of old school, I really think that my business is about one person. It's about the one person that has hit play and that is taking time to listen to this conversation.

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And just like when I take a walk with a friend, that my intention is to know that whoever it is that is listening, yes, you right now as you're driving your car, as you're at the gym, that you are the person I'm talking to because I am. And I also know that everything that I'm about to share with you is relevant for somebody that you care about.

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And so whether you get a tremendous amount out of this or you just feel a little bit better, you know somebody that is going to get something out of this, which means you can use this conversation to strengthen a relationship with somebody. And so I have always approached everything that I do with this sort of how can I help and one person.

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And there's small moments in my life that really inform me. And I'm going to share this story because like there's this obsession with virality and monetization and all of this stuff in business, which is important. And another thing that has really helped me is I 1000% believe in full ownership of everything that I do. And so I control everything because I believe in what I do.

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So why on earth would I give somebody else a meaningful stake when I'm the one doing all the work, when I'm the one that created the five-second rule and created the let them theory? And so why would I not keep control of these things? And why would I trust someone else's authority more than my own to be able to market these things? Because I also understand digital media.

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which unlike a printed book, digital media is gonna live forever. Everything that you do on social media or on your YouTube channel or all of it is something you can monetize forever. So just like Bruce Springsteen doesn't wanna give his catalog of music away, he's gonna sell it and have a library that he owns the rights of.

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I think about things that I invest my time in now as what do I actually own? Because that is an asset. versus a piece of content that you're singularly monetizing. And so for me, when I look back on my life, there are defining moments and there are surprising moments.

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And I'm gonna take you on a quick highlight tour because those defining moments actually explain why I am one of the most intentional people you will ever meet. And I weave it through everything I do in business. So when I was a public defender, my first job, 1994, I graduate from Dartmouth College, then I go to Boston College Law School.

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My first job was as a public defender for the Legal Aid Society. I represented people here in New York City that had been arrested and accused of crimes, and they could not afford an attorney. And I would meet them after they had been arrested and thrown into a jail cell and then transported to 100 Center Street, where they would be held in a cage behind a judge.

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And they would be brought into court to be read the charges against them, to be read their constitutional rights, and to be assigned an attorney and to get a constitutionally mandated bail hearing. And I would meet my clients because these are people who could not afford representation.

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They were assigned by the state because you have a constitutional right to be represented in a court of law by a licensed attorney. And I would walk back behind the judge and I would meet my client for the very first time. in that setting. They were behind bars and I had a little folder that had the complaint from the police. And if they had ever been in trouble before, I had a history of that.

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If they hadn't, there wouldn't be that. And that was it. And so that experience taught me a number of things. First of all, it taught me that no matter the circumstances under which you meet somebody, that I choose to believe in the innate worthiness of human beings. I do. I choose to treat people with dignity. And I choose to see bigger possibilities

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for everybody, no matter what circumstances I may meet you in. And one of the things that hit me in my heart is that when we would go out and it was time for my client that I was representing to be charged, formally charged, part of that arraignment hearing is a bail hearing.

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And one of the things that the courts consider is obviously the charges against you and the severity of them, your history, some of your life story, but the big one is also ties to the community. I cannot tell you how many times we would walk out into that courtroom in 1994, 95, and 96, and nobody would be there. no one, over and over and over again.

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And it just killed me that in one of the scariest times in a person's life, no one was there. And I have never, ever, ever forgot what that felt like. And I have made it a mission, my mission to show up

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Whether that means that I'm leaving a public bathroom and I take a moment and thank the human being that is cleaning the public bathroom, because that's a job where you feel invisible, or it is truly apologizing and thanking people for their patience when I'm late.

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And so that has informed me about how I want to treat people and how I want people to experience me, that I'm the kind of person that actually cares and that sees something bigger for you. No matter where you are, no matter what you've done, no matter what circumstances you face, I believe in the extraordinary possibilities that you have because I understand something.

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I understand that your past is not your fault. I understand that if you aren't doing well, it's not a matter of willpower. It's a matter of skill building. And I also believe that absolutely everybody, if you focus on your mindset, if you focus on your actions, if you focus on how you process your emotions, that absolutely anybody can do better and be better and feel better.

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And the other thing that that experience taught me is just that it's the simplest things that people remember. And this is a marketing message. Okay. The more complicated you make things, the less likely anybody is going to do it. the more intellectual you are. You know what, you're communicating when you're intellectual that I think I'm smarter than you.

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Yes, right? And so I'm obsessed with making things simple. And so these are core values about really showing up in a way that people feel seen, that people know that you believe in them, that people know that you respect their time, that people know that I see the possibility in you because I do see it. This isn't just some bullshit that I say. I actually believe it.

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The other thing that really struck me is another moment. So there was this whole thing that happened when I started speaking, that when I first started speaking, I thought, okay, if you're in the speaking business and somebody is paying you a ridiculous amount of money to stand on a stage, you better be dressed nicely.

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And so even though it was like at a time, and so I'm talking probably like 2015, 2014, something like that, I start getting paid. And I'll never forget this. I was at the MGM in Vegas and I was speaking for Remax and there were like 8,000 people in the audience. And it was one of the biggest speeches that I was ever going to give at the time, of course.

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And so I, at the time, was dressing like a news anchor. So I would wear heels. You look beautiful today. Normally, I look not so pulled together. But so I would look great on a stage. So I'm in heels, which I never wear, so I can't walk in them very well. And I'm wearing a dress.

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And what happened is I have terrible ADHD, and I get to Vegas, and it turns out when I open up my suitcase at 7.30 in the morning, I have left my high heels in a hotel room in Miami. And what I have in my suitcase are Birkenstocks. Oh, no. And these sparkly high tops. That's it. And I have tech check in 20 minutes. Most people would have stress diarrhea and then just derail the situation.

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And I'm like, fuck it. Okay, I guess we're going with the high tops because we're not wearing Birkenstocks on this stage. And remember how I said that your life is always teaching you and it's either in the struggles or it's in these quiet little moments. So I get backstage and when you're backstage speaking at a big event,

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It's very dark and there's like a whole city behind the stage of people in production and everybody's dressed in all black and there's equipment everywhere and tables everywhere and cables everywhere. And then there's all this tenting that is the back of the stage and you're kind of walking around and it's hard to see.

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And normally, especially if it's like eight o'clock in the morning in Vegas, for crying out loud, and you're speaking at a massive corporate conference for Remax, the client was, and I was going to give a speech about the five second rule. Everyone's tired. So I walk back there and they're miking me up for the tech check that we're going to do before 8,000 people come into the MGM.

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And one of the older guys dressed in all black, he's got a graying beard. He turns, he's like, cool kicks. And it was the first time that anyone backstage, even though I was super nice and friendly and not dramatic at all and not high maintenance, it was the first time anybody had ever commented like that. And that was this small moment that I was like, take note.

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And so then I go up on stage and as I walked on stage, I felt different. And that was a small moment that was like, take note.

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And normally if you're a woman who's presenting, most people, whether it's male, female, they, everybody, when a woman walks on stage, if you're too pretty, if your heels are too high, most people kind of cross their arms and are like, this bitch thinks she looks better than the rest of us. And there's a distance that happens because you're focused on what you look like.

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Well, I really appreciate you acknowledging the difference that the five-second rule and that countdown technique, five, four, three, two, one, move, how it helped you. But I want to say back to you, you have to keep the credit because you did the work. No, I'm serious. It is easy to talk about motivation. It's easy to give people advice.

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And you're focused on presenting yourself in a way that is,

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projecting something well god when i walked on stage in these stupid high tops that are all sparkly and this dress that didn't match and my dumb glasses people were like what is this like and so there was an open arm thing and so typically it would take me like five to ten minutes and a couple laughs to get to that point in a speech that i call i'd have a cup of coffee with her moment

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which is now somebody's listening and enjoying instead of judging. Take note. And from that moment on, couple things. Number one, in any industry that you're in, being able to be excellent at the thing is the minimum requirement. the minimum requirement. You shouldn't be on a stage if you're not excellent. You shouldn't be charging people if you're not excellent.

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You need to take pride in your performance, which means you need to practice. This is my opinion. I'm going to let you do whatever you want, but really don't hang your hat on the fact that you're fantastic at the thing they're paying you to do. You want to be exceptional? Be fucking fantastic at the things no one pays you to do.

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What made me an extraordinary force on the corporate circuit and what has earned me extraordinary amounts of money is, yes, There is, in my opinion, almost no one better. I don't know of anyone better on stage. And I'm sure there's extraordinary people out there, but I will claim that for myself for sure. Category of one of one when it comes to what I do. But I know for sure there's no one better.

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when it comes to what I do offstage. Because I learned very quickly that it's the little things that you do that make people feel taken care of, that then make people want to work with you, that make people want to hire you. And I'll give you a simple example.

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When I was doing 115 speeches a year, Starbucks, JP Morgan, Microsoft, like on and on and on and on from one event to the other event to this event to that event, 30,000 people, 100 people with a CEO retreat, this one. Every time I landed in a new city, I would always text the event planner, not the CEO, not the person that hired me.

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I would text the event planner a fun selfie of me getting off the plane. I'm here. Thank you. Excited to see you. And you know what that did? That immediately made the person who is responsible for tracking me and who is responsible for managing a million things love me because I just took one thing off their list and made their job easy. And when you do that, guess what people do?

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They hire you again. Yep. They recommend you. And people are obsessed with the people up here when you need to be amazing with the people that serve the people up here. Because those are the folks that have the power. Those are the ones that get everything done. And it is the exact same principle if you want to grow a social media audience. It's responding to comments.

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It's easy to tell the person who's spending time with us together today our stories and the things that work for us. But knowledge is cheap and it's free. And if you don't know how to achieve your goals, go to Google. Type in, how do I do this? And AI will spit it out and then say, what does a day in the life of somebody who's launching this and successfully in five weeks look like?

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It's actually tracking your name or your brand and going to their account and responding. That is the exact same thing that I was doing in person in the speaking business. And so those are examples of how there are little things that I'm obsessive about. Like everybody in my company on a production day actually wears name tags. Because I used to host a daytime talk show.

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I've been at a bazillion events. It's impossible to remember people's names. Yeah. And so when you walk into 143 Studios in downtown Boston, you're going to walk into 25 people. We're going to stand up and welcome you together. Everybody has a name tag. Why? Because I want you to feel at ease. I want you to feel comfortable. I want the people that work for me to feel seen and recognized.

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When you're done with the podcast and we walk out, you get a standing ovation because we're grateful that you're here. And so every tiny little thing I do is with intention on making a particular type of impact. And so there are stages to this. I mean, first, you got to get started. Second, you got to learn how to just keep going because the other thing that is a skill is stamina.

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I believe that success is as much about not quitting as anything else. Totally. as anything else. And it may surprise you to learn that with this book, The Let Them Theory, this is truly the first time that I've had a major moment in terms of the normal press cycle.

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I have a lot of friends because I'm in mastermind groups and you actually represent and sell ads and do brand partnerships for a lot of my friends. And that's another thing I'm going to tell you that has been a secret to success. And it's that the very people you're competing against should be your closest friends. It's so true. Why do you believe that's true?

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That and... I think it's true at any level. We're just so insecure when we're getting started that we don't think we have anything to offer. And the truth is your family has no idea what you're doing. Your friends don't understand what you're doing. And the people that you think you're competing with are the only people on the planet that get it.

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And so the very people that you're distancing yourselves from should be your closest allies because otherwise you are going to feel alone. Because your family's not in this business, so they don't understand the stress. Your friends don't share the same aspirations, so they don't know what you're going through. But the people at your same level, this is your squad because they get it.

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And honestly, that's why I'm so excited about the let them theory and the things that I'm talking about now, because for far too long, For far too long, I would look at people that I admired, like Jay Shetty and Lewis Howes and Jenna Kutcher and Amy Porterfield and Trent Shelton, and I would go, oh, oh, well, they've already done a podcast. I guess I can't do one. Or they're super successful.

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They're in competition with me. And what I have learned too late, I'm so happy I understand this. And I'm thrilled for you as you're listening to us to really embrace what I'm about to tell you. Success is in limitless supply. Happiness, friendship, all of these things, money, Lamborghinis, they're in limitless supply. No other human being is blocking your way. In fact, they're leading the way.

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And if you have a insecure and jealous and competitive and comparison attitude, you will turn other people into the biggest excuse for why you can't do what you need to do. And it is a joke because there's only one person that can actually block your way and it's you. And so learning how to let other people be successful

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and let other people be rich and let other people figure it out and let them get engaged and let them have babies and let them have a million dollars in the bank and let them do this and let them do that. You're just letting them lead the way.

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There's your map. But that's the easy part. The hard part is making yourself do it, particularly on the days when you don't feel like it. And so I want to acknowledge you for the fact that you both grab the knowledge and then you put it into action. And that's what makes you different. That is what explains my success.

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My secret to success is very simple. I get out of fucking bed when I don't feel like it. End of story.

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You are listening to this right now and spending time with us because you actually want to achieve big goals. So I know that about the person that is listening and choosing to spend time listening to this. But I'm going to tell you something. This conversation that you're about to listen to means shit if you don't actually convert it to action. And that's what we're going to talk about.

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So I put up a video, gosh, it was like 18 months ago. And I basically was sharing about something I had just stumbled on because I was being a micromanaging parent at my son's prom. And my middle daughter was home from college. And you know, like when your mom's being like super annoying.

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And you're like, God damn, geez, mom, I was getting like that. Well, we've all been there, right? And it's just to her stupid side. And my daughter reaches out and grabs my arm and yanks me towards her and says, mom, stop it. You're being so annoying. Let them, let them, let them run in the rain. Let them eat where they want. Let them do this.

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Tools, but then it's going to be to you to take the baton and go.

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And she just kept saying, let them, let them, let them. And it was weird. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. Why am I worried about this? Why am I stressing about this?

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And for the next couple of days, anytime somebody was pissing me off or annoying me, or I saw somebody do something online that made me feel jealous, or somebody did something that made the guilt rise up, I just started saying, let them. Standing in line at a store and there's five people in front of you, beep, beep, beep. There's only one cashier. No one's coming to the other lines.

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How do you feel in that moment?

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Yeah. And then what do you do?

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You think you can run the grocery store better than the people running it? Uh-huh. And all along while that's happening, do you know what's happening? You're actually allowing something to drain your life force.

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and you are wasting time, and you are allowing something that's out of your control to steal your time and energy and blind you to the fact that even in moments where you feel stressed out or hurt or you're worried or you're scared, that there is always something in your control. And what's in your control is never out there, ever. There's one thing in life you can never control.

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It's other people. You can't control what they think. You can't control what they do. You can't control the timeline upon which they change, if they change at all. You can't control if they're going to love you. You cannot control another human being, and yet we try. And it's the greatest source of frustration in your life.

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But if you turn it back, you'll see there's three fingers always pointing back at you when you point at somebody else because there are three things that are always in your control. You can always control what you think about what's happening. You can always control what you choose to do or not do. And you can always control how you process your emotions.

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Whether you will let them just run you over and then you send that text or have you ever crafted one of those emails like single space and it's like super long and you take like 90 minutes and you're like send. that never solves anything. You always get to choose how you respond. And that's how you take responsibility for your life. And let's talk about responsibility. It's the ability to respond.

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That's what taking responsibility means.

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It's a great example. And being hurt because you're not included is a sign that you're mentally well. It's what you do with that that dictates your experience of life. And like you, all too often when I have either been left out of something or people don't even think of me because I haven't been around, because I've been busy building a business, so why would they think of me?

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Or if it's when I see somebody else succeeding and then I feel sorry for myself, right? Feeling those things is normal. It's what you do next that matters. So the let them theory is the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered. I'm so excited for you to implement this. Seriously, I am a changed human being. I've never felt more peaceful and powerful. So what is the let them theory?

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Oh my gosh, yes. So just to put a little back step on this, this would have been 2011. So I'm basically your grandmother now, if you think of this being however many years ago, over a decade ago. Ted was not a thing. Ted was some secret thing that fancy people went to in Seattle. They weren't even online. And so I get asked by a friend if I would give a speech about career change.

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It is a simple mindset tool that shows you immediately what is in your control and what is not in your control. And here's how you use it. There's two steps.

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Anytime that you are in a situation where you're starting to feel stressed out or you're starting to get pissed off or you're hurt or you're annoyed or you're getting clingy or you're becoming a victim or you're feeling the rage come up, you're going to say, let them. That's step one. When you say let them, you detach from what's happening and you recognize that

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that I can't control this person, what they think, say, or do, or feel, or I can't control what's happening with traffic right now, so I am going to let them. And when you say let them, a couple things happen.

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First of all, you get this rush of superiority because it's like you're going, I see what's happening, and I value my time and energy, and I know I'm not going to waste it trying to manage this situation or allowing this person or this situation to impact me negatively. I'm going to let them. And so it's amazing because you detach. And then the second step is you say, let me.

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And this is the most powerful part because this is where you take your power back. When you say, let me, you then remind yourself that there's always something in your control. And what's always in your control are the three things. I can choose what to think about this. I can choose how to respond to this or not. And I can choose what I'm gonna do with my emotions.

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And the uses are just endless because we live in a moment in time where everything feels out of control. And people are stressed out and people are acting in really inconsiderate and dismissive ways. And people are super emotionally immature. Let them, because so are you. We all are right now. And when you say let them, it's not like an F you.

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It's really about giving people grace and space and also putting up a boundary and reminding yourself it's not your job to make people happy. It's not your job to manage other people's stress. It's not your job to make sure that everybody's expectations are met. It's not your job to run a grocery store. Your job is to focus on taking actions that really align with your values and your priorities.

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And your job is to think in a way that makes you feel good. I'll give you a quick example. We were in an elevator this morning and the thing got stuck between the 11th and 12th floor. I was in there for 50 minutes and the fire department had to come, but it was a good 15 minutes before anybody came to do anything.

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And I sat there on the floor of that elevator and I kept saying, let them, let them take a long time. Let them figure this out. And let me remind myself that the only thing I can control right now is just staying calm and sitting on the floor and thinking that this is going to be okay. Let them. And it worked. And so in your business, let's just take everybody that listens to you, right? Yeah.

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I want you to think about that moment where you are posting something on social media. And you go and you pick the reel or you pick the photo, right? And then what do you do? Then you're like, oh, should it be that? Should it be this? And then you put a filter on and then you take the filter off and then you size it.

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And it's one thing to do this because you have a business strategy and you're thinking about your business strategy. It's another thing to do this. And then when you start to write the caption, you're like, is this too much? Should I put an emoji? Is that CTA? And then you start to question for who? For who? Before you even post something, what are you doing?

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You're giving power to what other people are going to think and do in response to what you're about to post. And by the way, you have no control over what they think and do in response. And so instead of managing it, I have a different approach. Let them think something negative. Let them unfollow you. Let them judge you. Let them roll your eyes because I got news for you.

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And she said, look, a friend of mine is putting on some event in San Francisco, and they're looking for somebody to talk about career change, Mel. And I immediately thought about you. And look, I don't think that's a compliment if... I'm the first person that you think of because it means I've bounced from one career to another, which I had. And she said, here's the catch.

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You need to use the let me part. Let me remind myself that my social media is for me. My social media is for my business. My social media is my self-expression. It's not for my family or my freaking friends from college or my brother or my sister. My social media is for me. Let me express myself. Let me market my business. Let me show up and put this reel out, even though I'm kind of nervous.

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Feeling nervous about something that you care about is a sign that you care about it. It's not a sign that things aren't going to go well. And so by saying let them, it's extraordinary what's happened in my life.

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Absolutely. So it's going to be a dance because you're never going to get rid of the need of trying to control things. It is a hardwired survival instinct. And it kind of makes sense, right?

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Because if you're in control of what you're thinking and you're in control of your decisions and you're in control of your environment and you're in control of your spending and you're in control of your marketing platform and your strategy that you're doing, then you feel safe. You feel confident. You feel good. Here's the problem.

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That if you do something that makes me worried or upset, guess what? Now I feel like I'm out of control. And here's where we make the mistake. I then go to try to control you. But the problem is you have a hardwired need to be in control of yourself too. And so I go to push against you, which means you're hardwired to push back because you are wired to control what you're doing.

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And this is one of the biggest things that you're going to learn in reading the Let Them Theory, just using it in your life, is that pushing other people and expecting other people to change, trying to motivate other people to change, it actually doesn't create change. it creates resistance to change.

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There is one thing on this planet you will never, ever, ever, ever be able to control, and that's whether or not another person changes. Because people only change when they're ready to change. And people only are ready to change when they're ready to do the very hard work to change. And this presents another problem.

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And see, I've been working against the fundamental wiring of human beings for 54 years. It was learning to say let them and let me that taught me how to work with change. the laws of human nature and with brainwire. Let's just talk about how people change. Okay. We are hardwired to move toward what's easy. Hardwired. It's why we sit on the couch instead of going to the gym.

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They're offering you two plane tickets and two nights at the St. Regis. And at the time, my husband and I were $800,000 in debt because his pizza restaurant was failing and like complete idiots, we had secured it with our life savings, our house, our credit cards, everything. And so when you're that in debt, Do you know what two tickets and two nights in a hotel sounds like?

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It's why you sit and watch other people's content instead of posting your own. Because if it were easy to do it, everybody would have a million dollars. And that's why you got to learn how to take action even when it feels hard. See, nobody gets sober until being drunk is harder than doing the work to change because it takes work. And we know this.

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And yet when we're looking at somebody and we're like, you're not working hard enough. Why aren't you getting better grades? How come you haven't gotten a better job? Why haven't you started this business? We forget. that if it were easy, they'd already be doing it. And so the let them theory and saying, let them, let them struggle. Let them be unmotivated. Let them judge your choices.

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Let them be confronted by the fact that you're now super interested in fitness and entrepreneurship. And they're questioning why you don't drink all the time. Let them. And then let me remind myself that I get to choose what's a priority for me. And so you will start to learn that the more time you spend expecting other people to change, the more frustrated you're going to be.

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And the more that you say let them and you learn to let people be who they are and let them have their questions and let them change on their own timeline and let them not be interested in the same things that you're interested in. Learn how to love people exactly as they are and exactly as they aren't. the better your relationships are gonna get.

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It's really so simple and it's beautiful because it creates space where the people in your life get to be who they are and you get to focus on yourself, not like you're out of my life, but as a responsible adult. And the let me part is all about you taking responsibility for acting in a way that you value. So let me talk about another thing that happens a lot in business.

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So as you're growing your business, you're going to start to find conflict between what your friends and family want you to do and what your business partners want you to do. And a lot of people really start to struggle when they feel like business partners are disappointed that you can't show up at something or your family or friends are disappointed that you're not around as much.

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You need to say, let them. Let them be disappointed. And here's why. Isn't it a wonderful thing if your business partner's disappointed that you can't show up for something? Doesn't that mean they want you there? I mean, we're so afraid of it, and yet what's the alternative? I don't want her there. She's like horrible. Same thing with your parents or your friends.

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If you're not able to show up because you've been just focused on entrepreneurship, let them be disappointed. It means they love you and they wish you were there. That doesn't mean you have to change.

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First of all, you can't control them. So you need to let them reveal who they are. But then here comes the hard part in business. Let me be honest with myself. Have I actually been clear about my expectations? Probably not. Have I explained what I think the outcome is that is successful? Probably not. Probably not.

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Am I micromanaging everybody because I don't explain what I want and the outcomes that you can measure success by? And since I have not done that, I constantly question everybody.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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That sounds like a free vacation. So I said yes. And the only time I had ever given a speech was in class in high school during a public speaking course. So I said yes so fast. I wasn't even imagining a huge auditorium and that I would have to get up in front of, I don't know, 500 people and talk.

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So I swoop in and I micromanage, which only trains your team that you don't trust them, which makes your team feel like they can't make a decision because you're going to come in and override everything anyway, which creates paralysis in your organization.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If you have a failing employee, it is usually because you have broken process or you have unclear communication and expectations, or there is a missing skill set in the seat and they're in the wrong seat. And unless you as the leader take full responsibility for your part, which most entrepreneurs, most entrepreneurs are the shittiest operators on the planet. I happen to be one of them.

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You are in entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship is artistry. It's creation. That is not the same thing as rhythm, systems, and operations, and clear communication. In fact, it's the opposite. And so your energy and your talent will create something. And then you will realize that you've created something and have zero systems and zero standard business operating principles.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You have no outcomes and key results that you're measuring. And so people don't know what success looks like. And if you only measure success based on dollars in the bank or the number of views on a podcast episode, that is something you cannot control. You have to, as the leader, let me take responsibility for my job, which is to actually create an environment where people can succeed.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And if people don't have clear outlines of what they own, if they don't have clear outlines of what is going to make them successful, and if they don't have the freedom, let them, to execute against that in the way that actually gives them self-expression, they will hate working for you. And your business will not do as well as it can. It always comes back to you.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And so yes, let them reveal that they're not doing a good job, but then instead of doing this, they suck. first say, do I suck? Because chances are you do. And I definitely do. If I am not behind a microphone or creating content or doing business development, which by the way, is a form of creating content and artistry, because everything that I do is about expansion and intention.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If I'm not doing one of those three seats, I'm not in the right seat in my business. And I am the problem. The business, my folks that work for me, they're not the problem. I'm the problem. And so I choose as the leader that my business coach, David Gerbitz, always says, leaders bring the weather. And if you have a stressed out and a panic emergency type situation, Culture, that's because of you.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You bring the rain or you bring the sun. And by the way, your energy and whether or not you take the time to make sure people feel supported and to make sure they know the things they're doing right and to give them the tools and the skills that they need to succeed on the things that aren't going well. If you don't do that, then you're not a good leader.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Great, then let them knock it up to speed and then let me give very direct feedback quickly. And don't dance around it with the positivity sandwich. The way you have that is directly with respect. You basically say, this is not gonna be a fun conversation. And I was hoping that things were gonna go very differently. And I have very high standards.

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Yes. You're never going to get what you want if you don't begin. And if you don't know what you want, here's how you figure that out. There's one thing in life you can never control. It's other people. The Let Them Theory is the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered. It is a simple mindset tool that shows you immediately what is in your control and what is not in your control.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And when I stepped on that stage, they do not prepare you, or at least they didn't back then, the way they probably do now. It was sort of like, here you go, here's your topic, go. And if you watch my TED Talk, which now has, I don't know, 33 million views, you will notice a minute into that thing,

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And this is a 19 word sentence that you're gonna steal that has been researched at Yale and Harvard. It's called the magic sentence, 19 words. I have very high expectations for this team and I believe you can meet them and that's why I'm going to tell you this feedback. And then you tell them the feedback and you let them. Because what somebody does with that feedback, that's what they control.

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You actually having the courage to deliver feedback. See, I actually think it's cruel to not tell somebody.

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Well, it's not about them. Do you want to be in an organization where people think you suck and they talk about you in a conference room? Of course not. So why would you do that to somebody and not address it? People know when they're not thriving.

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In fact, I personally believe the hardest working person in the company is the one who's not doing well because they're in conflict with themselves and they know it. And you are either the kind of leader who has this bullshit, toxic male kind of mentality of, you know, or you take responsibility as a leader to create an environment in which people can thrive.

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And if people are not doing well and they're not meeting expectations before you start barking about or labeling people, which is toxic behavior on your part, take a moment and ask yourself critically, let me ask myself, have I actually explained the outcomes that measure success? Have I actually explained what I expect?

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Have I actually given somebody all the information that they need in order to succeed? Do I even know what skills are required for this job? Or am I just throwing somebody into the fire and then judging the shit out of them when they can't get the job done? Because if you can't answer those questions for yourself, then you're not the good leader and no one's gonna succeed in that role.

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And look, there are times where people overestimate their qualifications and then they get in a seat and they don't have the skills. Let them, let them. And don't overcompensate and fix everything and step in and solve the problems. Let people fail because if you don't, you won't see where there's process missing. You won't see where there's a skill level missing.

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And you won't see where you actually are the issue because you haven't created an environment for people to succeed.

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I personally feel, and this goes with people in your life that are struggling too, absolutely anybody can get better. And what's needed is the belief that you can. And just a simple roadmap of what you need to do. And so at work, what often happens is that people start to feel very discouraged because you know when you're not a person that people go to on the team. You know when things feel off.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You know when you're getting passed over. You know when people... micromanage you. And you know when people don't actually trust your work. And so I personally think that person can still do incredible work in the right environment. And at the end of the day, feeling like somebody believes in your ability to get better creates the space for you to get better.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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that I have one of those neck rashes that people get when they've had too much to drink and they're like really blotchy because I was having a complete panic attack. I'm darting around the stage. I'm talking all over the place. And near the end of the speech, I forgot how to end it. And that was one of the defining moments of my life. And there's a theme about defining moments in my life.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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If somebody has the respect for you to say, I'm going to give you this feedback and this isn't going to be a fun conversation, not my favorite thing to talk about, but I'm doing it because I actually have high standards for this team and I believe you can hit them. To me, that's you saying, I see you. We both know you're not meeting the standards here. And what else did I say?

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I think you can meet them. This team is special. Now I'm appealing to your desire to succeed. I'm appealing to the potential that you know is inside you. I choose to believe that people do well when they can. And if somebody in your team or in your family or in your life isn't doing well, then it's because there's something missing that's making it so they can't. And it's almost never willpower.

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It's usually something small. It's usually just clearer communication or identifying the skill that would be helpful or partnering them with somebody so that you create an environment where they can succeed. And people also need to feel enough space and acceptance and dignity so that you feel like the change is your idea.

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Not that it's getting shoved down your throat because nobody wants to change if they know that you're going to say, see, I told you so. And that's a critical part of this, that when you say let them, You're not allowing people to fail. You're actually creating the space for somebody to succeed. But the first step is that you have to give people the space and the honesty to make it their decision.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And the other thing that the let them theory is not is it's not allowing somebody to walk all over you. It's not allowing somebody to treat you poorly because you're already doing that. When you say let them, you detach and you see somebody probably for the first time exactly as they are and exactly as they aren't. And you stop doing something.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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You stop making excuses and you stop living in the fantasy and the potential and you actually live in the reality. You know, as I'm going through this phase of this next leveling up in my business, I realize it's on me to level up my expectations of myself. It's on me to get clearer in my communication. It's on me to focus on what's truly important and delete everything that's not.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Because another huge thing in business is that if everything's important, nothing is. And you cannot allow someone else's emergencies to become your emergency. You cannot allow somebody else's priority to become your priority. Everything that somebody else is asking of you in business is an opportunity. But you have to get out of reactive mode and get into responding mode.

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Because it's only in doing that that you will actually be intentional and focused and you will truly be strategic about what actually deserves your time and what doesn't. Because not everything in business does.

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Let them. Let them. Because all that time and energy and power that you're giving to other people, as soon as you say let them and then you say let me, you actually take that power back and you start to protect your time and energy and that's what you need to be profitable and successful.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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I don't know what your defining moments are like, but mine usually involve embarrassment, too much alcohol, bankruptcy, desperation, panic attack. And in that moment when I froze, I couldn't remember what to say. And so I all of a sudden blurted out this thing, the five second rule, which you know, which you follow, which I'm sure the person listening knows this little motivation hack.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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Saying no. It's way more important to say no, because every time you say no, you're actually saying yes to what matters.

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You can find me right here in this conversation right now. And one of the most important things you can do is take this conversation and send it to somebody that you care deeply about because you know you feel inspired. You know you got tools.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And one of the best things that you can do to build your relationships and connections, which you need in business and you need for profit and you need to be successful, is to actually be generous. And so be generous with the information that you just got today because it will make a difference in somebody else's life.

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I'm really proud of you. Thank you. Congratulations for everything that you do and for the lives that you impact and the difference that you're making. Thank you.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And I'd never shared it with anybody. And I couldn't think what else to say. And I just went, oh, there's this thing I do. I call it the five second rule. The moment you have an instinct to move, you have to move within five seconds or your brain will kill your motivation to act. I walked off that stage and I thought that was it. And that was not it.

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That was the beginning of something extraordinary.

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Yes.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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It's a great question. And as you're listening to this conversation, whether you're in a car or you're at the gym or you're watching us on YouTube, there is something that you want to do in life, whether it's launching a business or becoming an influencer or monetizing social or building a YouTube following or publishing books, or maybe it's starting your own podcast.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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I don't know what that thing is. Maybe you want to become a touring musician. Maybe you want to start a fashion line. There is something in your heart. Maybe you want to Lambo. I don't know. It's your goals. Whatever it is that you want, I'm here to tell you that you do not need anybody's permission. And you do not need to have it all figured out.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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In fact, you're never going to have it all figured out. And every single day that you talk yourself out of beginning or taking one step forward is a day that you're keeping yourself locked in a prison of your own making. Because if you know something that you want, how dare you withhold it from yourself? How dare you talk yourself out of it?

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And here's how you use it. There's two steps. That's step one.

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How dare you sit there and spend more time and energy manufacturing excuses and worrying about what other people think? You get one life. And no one is coming to save you. No one is coming to do the work for you. Nobody is going to pick you from obscurity and make you a star. Nobody is going to build the business that you want to build.

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Mel Robbins: The Let Them Theory, Build a Business and Life on Your Terms | Human Behavior | E329

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And while you're sitting there drinking with your buddies, bitching about your current job, or you are sitting there telling yourself, I don't know what to do. Your whole life is waiting for you. There's literally a door right in front of you that is waiting for you to reach out and freaking turn the knob and open it. And I'm going to tell you something. My secret to success is very simple.

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I get out of fucking bed when I don't feel like it. End of story. And if the five second rule taught me anything, it's this. You will never feel ready to do the work. You will never feel like you are capable of achieving what you want. You will never, ever, ever feel like it's your right to say this.

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And so you have to learn the skill of doing the actions that are aligned with your values, your character, and your dreams when you don't feel like it. And that's a skill. And every one of us sits around. I used to sit around and wait to be motivated. Motivation is complete and utter garbage because it's never there when you need it.

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And I even hate all this bullshit out there now about discipline and willpower. Yeah. Forget it. You can actually feel lazy and exhausted and unmotivated. And you can still do it. And sitting around waiting for the feeling to strike you, that is a recipe that will lead you to your deathbed.

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Because if you're in control, then you feel safe. But the problem is...

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And you'll be one of those people that they study that say, oh man, my biggest regret is I didn't let myself die. be myself. I never went for the things that I wanted to do. I was so worried about what my dad thought or my mom thought or my friends thought that I never started.

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And if you don't start now because you say you're not ready or you're not qualified or whatever, then the next excuse is going to be, well, I should have started then and now I'm too late. And then the next excuse is going to be, well, I'm too old or I have kids or I have a mortgage or I have this or I have that or I have people that depend upon me or I've been in this job for 10 years. And so I

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It's all bullshit. It's all, it's all something you manufactured in your own head. And I get fired up about it because it's sad. You don't have to be like this. You don't have to live your life like this. You do not have to let your mother's opinion dictate what you do.

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Well, I think there's also something else that happened. When everything started to build for me, and again, this goes to the point where the first skill is starting because you're never going to get what you want if you don't begin. So you have to actually commit to starting. And there's a very simple way you do it. You just get clear about what you want.

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And if you don't know what you want, here's how you figure that out. Just say, I don't want what I have. Literally, if you don't know what direction to point, just know, well, where I am is not it. So I need to take a look at where I am and the way that I go through my day. And I need to reverse it or do the opposite or make a change because that's going to pivot you in a different direction.

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And I truly believe that you're one decision away from a completely different life. That doesn't mean you achieve the success that you want with one decision. It means that with one decision, and for me, that decision was getting out of bed when I didn't feel like it.

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getting out of bed when I was $800,000 in debt, getting out of bed and going for a run even though I didn't feel like it and it was snowing and it's not gonna make a dent in the debt and the fear that I have, but it's gonna make me know that no matter what's going on around me, I can five, four, three, two, one, still do something that reminds me that I'm still in control in small ways.

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And so for me, when the TED Talk took off, I didn't write a business plan. I didn't. I just started having people say, hey, Mel, will you come speak? And then when I figured out that everybody else was getting paid, first of all, I felt like the world's biggest flipping idiot.

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And for those of you that are obsessed with influencer culture and affiliate marketing and all this stuff, I guarantee you, you waste probably 10 hours a week just thinking looking at other people who have built what you want to build. And that is also a recipe for disaster because you will start to convince yourself that they already took it, that you can't do it, and you're looking at it wrong.

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There is a formula to everything. And so here I am at this point in my life where I need money. I still need to pay my bills and pay off my debt. People are starting to ask me to speak. I'm realizing everybody else at every one of these conferences that I'm going to, and I'm off in the little side room, you know, doing my thing, everybody else is getting paid. And so there's always a formula.

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And it's your inability to wipe away the excuses and stop comparing yourself and stop talking yourself out of it that keeps you from realizing there's a simple formula for everything. In fact, you are so generous because you put out content that provides a roadmap. You tell the stories from your own career and building your business. And in those stories are takeaways.

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You are literally selling advertising and monetizing brand partnerships for podcasts that the person that's listening to this right now listens to. And you share how you do it all the time. And so again, case in point, the problem isn't, I don't know how to do that. Yes, you do. Because there's people like you that put out content that actually teach people how to do it. And that's a gift.

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And how sad is it that you know and you see the steps? This was me, by the way. This is why I get so fired up about it. Because every day, just like I see, you probably see people like the person who's listening to us right now, who has in their heart what they want, and they're actively working against themselves. And there's not a single person on the planet that can take anything from you.

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Nobody can block your path to success. Only you can do that.

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