The Mel Robbins Podcast
The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory
Mon, 23 Dec 2024
If there’s someone in your life you wish you were closer to, but it sometimes feels like there’s an unspoken tension between you, this episode is for you. Today, Mel sits down with her oldest daughter, Sawyer, for a raw and transformative conversation about repairing relationships and closing the invisible distance that so many of us feel with the people we love most.Together, they share the story of how writing The Let Them Theory healed their relationship and reveal three powerful tools that can help you do the same.Whether it’s with a sibling, a parent, an adult child, or your partner, this conversation is a gift—one that will help you let go of resentment, show up differently, and create the deeper connection you’ve been longing for. Get ready to finally have the relationship you’ve always wanted. Get the book: “The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About”For more resources, click here for the podcast episode page.If you liked this personal episode, you’ll love this one, in which Mel and her husband Chris have a very candid conversation about their marriage of 28 years: How To Create Better Relationships: 6 Surprising Lessons From 28 Years Of MarriageConnect with Mel:Get Mel’s new book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Sign up for Mel’s personal letter Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes Disclaimer
Chapter 1: What is the main topic of this episode?
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad that you pressed play and that you're listening to this conversation right now because you and I are going to talk about something incredibly important. And that is that there is a relationship in your life right now where there's just this unspoken tension with another person. You want to be closer.
You want to have more fun. But you're just not sure what to do. Well, that was me and my oldest daughter, Sawyer, for a long time. And today, Sawyer and I are going to sit down with you and we're going to unpack the issues that we had in our relationship with you and talk about this invisible distance that both of us felt.
I mean, even when we were having fun and we really love each other and we have a lot of fun together, but... There was just something in the way, you know? And we both wanted to be closer and not offend each other or upset each other or say things that we didn't mean to say. And it's like neither one of us knew how to bridge the gap or create a closer connection.
And we didn't even quite understand what was off. And as you listen to my daughter and I unpack the things that we realized about our relationship, and more importantly, we share two things that happened this year that we discovered that brought us closer than ever.
I want you to be thinking about the relationships in your life because there is somebody in your life right now that you wish you were closer to, but there's just this unspoken tension or you show up and you have the best of expectations and you really want to have fun and things are okay for a day, but then it's just the same old argument and baggage and you just wish it could go away.
And the truth is, I've got some really good news because that's exactly how my daughter and I felt for years. And we've now figured it out. We've made our relationship better. And the good news is, in any relationship, all it takes is you. If you change how you show up, everything changes in the relationship. So whether you're now thinking about your mom,
or you're thinking about how you've been fighting with your spouse and you wish you wouldn't, or you've got tension with one of your adult kids, or maybe the tension and this invisible distance is with a sibling. You were once close, but now you're not. And you can blame it on their spouse, but it's really in between the two of you. This conversation is one of the biggest gifts I could give you.
Because I'm going to explain that that invisible distance, that's something that you can close. You can improve your relationships. You can create a closer connection. And following the two things that my daughter and I are going to teach you today that work for us, that's one of the biggest gifts you could give to yourself and every relationship in your life.
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always such an honor to spend time and be together with you. I am so excited that you hit play today, that you're here for this conversation. This one is going to be amazing. And the reason why is I'm sitting down with my oldest daughter. Her name is Sawyer. She's 25 years old, and we have just spent the last year
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Chapter 2: How can you close the invisible distance in relationships?
The small things that you try to let go, the passive aggressive comments, the things that you feel kind of resentful or upset about that maybe happened in the past that you'd never quite gotten over. It's not even that the relationship's horrible.
You know, maybe it's that you really wish you were closer to your siblings, but there's just something there that you can't explain that makes it feel impossible to just feel closer. Or maybe you wish there was just less drama and friction with your adult kids or with your parents or with their significant other.
That there are times where it's fun, you really think things are okay, but you just can't quite get closer. and have it be better all the time. And so, in the process of working on the Let Them Theory book over the last year and using the Let Them Theory, my daughter and I truly, deeply, authentically, for real, erase the distance
and really became close in a way that we both really wanted to, but never knew how. And so I invite you to pull up a seat and to join me and my daughter, Sawyer.
And before we jump in, I just want to take a moment to and welcome you if you're brand new, because if you're listening to this episode as the first episode that you're listening to of the Mel Robbins podcast, it tells me something about you. First of all, either somebody that really loves you
and wants to either be closer to you, or wants you to be closer to people in your life, sent this to you. Which means you have people around you that deeply care about you. And they wanted you to listen to this because they know that this conversation is going to help you improve your life and your relationships, and it will.
The second thing it tells me is that you actually care about your relationships. Because you saw this episode and you hit play. And so my daughter and I are sitting down and we are going to unpack the lessons that we've learned the hard way. So hopefully we can save you the headache and heartache and upset and distance that we created in our relationship as mom and daughter.
And you can learn from our mistakes and you can learn from the things that we learned this year as we used the Let Them Theory and as we wrote about it and researched it. And there's one thing I know for sure. You will never look at relationships the same again after joining me and my daughter Sawyer. And with that, I just said your name very weird, Sawyer. Yeah.
I don't know why I said it weird like that.
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Chapter 3: What is the Let Them Theory and how does it work?
I think it was a story I was telling myself, but it felt in my eyes like you either were talking about work or you were talking about Kendall.
and how are we going to grow Kendall's singing career, and how are we going to do this, and all of the plays and all this stuff, which is unbelievable, but I think that that was really my impression, is she's a workaholic, which she still is, but I have more of an appreciation for it now, and the fact that I just had this story in my head that...
It was like all I wanted was your attention and I felt like it was going everywhere but me. I think it was.
It definitely was. And I'm sorry. That's okay.
It's not okay. I forgive you.
Well, I think every working parent, especially those of us that have a job that requires travel, kind of has that like, ooh, in your heart. Because there are times in your life where just out of necessity, you got to be on the road because that's what your job demands. And I guess I was lucky enough that dad was home full time.
Mm-hmm.
But I do agree with you that I was consumed with work because I was so scared about the amount of debt we were in and just the relentless pressure I felt for almost a decade to be able to... all the money that we had lost in the business and to get out of credit card debt and to be able to pay for college and do some of the things that I wanted to do.
And you're right, like too many people, I spent too many years working and and chasing the next thing because of the debt we were in. And I missed out on a lot. And so I can see why your experience was that I was always gone. And when I was home, I was talking about work or I was getting ready to leave on the next trip.
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Chapter 4: What challenges did Mel and Sawyer face in their relationship?
I already had decided in my mind that I, This is the story I'm going to tell myself, which is my mom doesn't care about me and I am going to go pout in the corner so she comes closer and closer to me versus trying to approach you in another way. And I think what didn't help that is that outside of the house and outside of our family,
every single second it was getting reconfirmed by strangers and by my friends which is oh you're kendall's sister oh my god kendall's blah blah blah oh my gosh you're mel robbins's daughter i love her so much like can you give me your number so i can get to her like give me your email so i can get to her it was always like how can i use sawyer to get to kendall or mom
And so I think that that, it was in the house I was telling myself this, but also outside, it was kind of like other people were reconfirming that for me. And so it made the force field indestructible.
I think that that's a very common experience, even when... someone in your family doesn't have a public-facing career. Like, if you're the person in your family that's the middle child in a big family, or you're the youngest in a big family, you feel invisible.
And you show up at school and you're Joey's little brother, or, oh, here we go, we've got another, you know, one of the Mitchells, or, you know, here comes another Jones through the school, that you start to feel invisible In the kind of reputation of the family or what your siblings did ahead of you. So I think that that's a very common thing.
So would you say that once you decided my mom doesn't care about me, it was going to be very difficult for me to somehow shatter that force field that you put up? Yes. Why do you say that?
I think it wouldn't be until I showed up differently that our relationship would get better. Really? Yeah.
I'd like to know I had more power here. Well, I appreciate you saying that because it takes time to shift the dynamic. And if somebody is committed to making you the villain in their story, or if they're committed to being the victim every time they tell the narrative of their family... It's pretty hard for people to let go of victimhood.
It's pretty hard for people to change the identity that they got screwed over or that their family, everybody's crazy or nobody cares about them or I make the effort, but nobody else does. And when you get on that storyline, it's a very powerful thing to tell yourself because you feel right. Totally. And anger and resentment, it can become the substitute for the love that you actually crave.
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Chapter 5: How can understanding your parents' struggles improve your relationship?
You did. Because my experience of being your mother is that especially once you got to high school, you were like, done with me. I don't need you. I don't want you. I want your credit card. I want the keys to your car. And I want you to shut up and just not bother me. And so I started to comply.
And I wanted something different, but I just didn't know how to do anything different or reach you without you being so annoyed or angry with me. All the time. It's true.
It was all because I looked up to you and wanted to be you. And... I think that that was like the same thing with Kendall too. It was like, I just wanted to be her and I didn't know how to communicate that.
Hmm.
And so instead of being like, I'm so proud of you, I want to learn from you, I want to go in the same direction, or I don't know what I want to do, but I think what you're doing is so cool. Instead, I was just like, I can never do that. And so therefore, I'm going to punish them.
I think that's such a relatable experience. I am so... grateful that we're having this conversation, Zoe, and I'm grateful that you're together with us because I know that this conversation is going to improve your relationships and you're going to feel so much better if you truly take to heart everything that we're sharing. And I cannot wait to see who you share this conversation with.
So, Soy, we're discussing the process of using the let them theory with one another over the course of the last year and how it has truly healed and improved our relationship. And so let's fast forward. to the part of the story where you go through college and you're out working for this massive cybersecurity firm. You're in your early 20s. You're getting promoted. You have all this stuff.
You're saving money. And you decide that you're going to take this trip and backpack solo around Asia, something you've wanted to do since you were a little girl. You go realize this dream. And then what happens?
So I quit my job and I go to Asia for four months and backpack solo to seven different countries. And it was so amazing. I was on such a high. I came back from my trip. I immediately wanted to go back, but I had no money. And it was the middle of winter up in Vermont. I have moved back home, living with my parents at 25.
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Chapter 6: What role does self-reflection play in repairing relationships?
including not only the 36 pages of citation and analysis and color coding and dropdown menus, but a two-page synopsis, which also included the fact that she said, mom, you can't write this book. Because what I'm seeing in the comments is 90% of it's amazing, but 10% of people are saying, I'm saying let them and I'm really lonely. I'm saying, let them. And I see that my friends don't call me back.
I'm saying, let them. And I see I'm the one in my family that makes all the effort. We cannot do a book about something that makes people lonely. There has to be a second part. Now, meanwhile, as she's saying this to me, I'm holding this very thick packet of information that looks like some sort of marketing engineer has used AI to create. And I'm looking at you and I'm thinking, oh my God,
I think for the first time in your life, I actually understand the way your brain works. That you basically have a supercomputer between those bright blue eyes and those beautiful like ears and smile that is crunching data all the time. And if you don't have a monster of a project to aim it at, you aim it at yourself.
And it made me want to cry because I understood immediately why you're so hard on yourself and why you're always in your head. And then the second reaction that I had was, holy shit, I got to figure out how she can work for me because this kid is a genius. I've never seen anybody do research like this before. I've never seen something organized like this before. The analysis was spot on.
And I will tell you point blank, that the reason why the let them theory has two steps, step one being say, let them, and let them is where you detach from controlling another person and you let them be who they are. And step two is 1000% because of Sawyer. And step two is let me.
And that's where you say, let me, and you direct yourself to the truth, which is the only thing that you can control in any relationship or your life or your career is you. Your response, what you think, what you say, what you do, how you process your emotions. And that's where you get to take responsibility for your life. That's where all the control and power comes.
Because when you say, let me, you're reminding yourself that it's both your responsibility to figure out what you want to do. And let's talk about the word responsibility. Responsibility just means the ability to respond.
And in our case, one of the things that has been absolutely unbelievable around the let them theory is that it's not only stopped you and me from trying to control the other person, but in saying let them, let them, let them to each other. I say let them when Sawyer seems intense. I say let them when Sawyer seems pissed off at me. I say, let them when Sawyer kind of has that crossed armed vibe.
And then I say, let me. Let me decide how I'm gonna show up right now. And there are moments where I choose to step toward you and to try to make sure you know that I'm here And then there are moments where I say, let me just give her space.
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Chapter 7: How can you use the Let Them Theory to enhance your connections?
Yes.
And for your next gig. And you can learn as much as you want. You can stay for as long as you want. There is no guardrails. But I really need some help with this project. So for however long you wish, it's up to you and we can get started. And I had said, okay, fine, but I'm never going to be full time. And... Let them.
And I think it's so hilarious because growing up, every single week, I think, mom would say once a week, I just can't wait to have a family business.
I wanted so desperately for you guys to be part of a family business because I saw how that kept my mom's family alive. in close proximity in upstate New York. And I just figured the world is so busy, how cool would it be to all have work to keep us together? And since the work is digital and interesting and media, there's lots of different things you could do.
So I always saw it as why would I want someone else to run this business? Why wouldn't I want one of you to run this business? And what a better way to be able to be together than to work together. And I will say the experience of seeing you as a colleague has been an extraordinary gift because I get to see how your mind works.
I get to see you in meetings with Audible and Hay House and the PR teams and the Today Show. And it's just incredible to get to see a completely different dimension And I think if you've got a kid or a sibling or a parent that is an athlete or they're an artist or they do something where you can see this side of them, you know what I'm talking about.
But for those of us that don't perform, like who knew your skill was a supercomputer brain that can do digital marketing and project management and be a business lead? Like that doesn't come out when you're little. And I probably would never have seen it in you, but for the fact that we had this experience of writing the book together.
And I'm saying this because I love thinking you don't know the people you think you know. That there's a whole different side of the person that you love that you've never even experienced before.
whether it's artistic talent or a knack for writing poetry or they're an incredible sense of direction out in the woods and they can guide you anywhere, that the stories that we tell ourselves about the people that we know the best trap us in a relationship with that version of the person. and it limits your ability to experience someone in a new light.
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Chapter 8: What are the key takeaways from Mel and Sawyer's conversation?
Have you ever stopped and asked yourself, I wonder what it was like for my mom? I wonder what it was like for my sister? I wonder what it was like for my little brother? We're so consumed with our experience that we start to build a narrative around it, but we never actually even want to step in and consider.
And I remember my relationship with my mom shifted immediately the second I stopped to ask myself, wonder what it was like for my mom to be 19 years old in the middle of Kansas City, married to my dad who was starting medical school, and here she has a newborn, And she's working nights at the IRS. Her family is halfway across the country. It's just her and my dad who's starting medical school.
She's a brand new mom. She's just got her friend. I wonder what that was like. And when you stop and step in someone else's shoes, what you realize is most people are not monsters. Most people are doing the best that they can with the resources and the life experience that they have. In the words of Dr. Ablon, people do well when they can. And we tend to judge from our point of view.
And then we sit there and cross our arms and go, I don't understand why my mom's so upset with me. I don't understand why my sister's so selfish. I don't understand why. Well, have you stopped and asked yourself, I wonder what it must be like to be that person. If I assume good intent, I wonder what that must be like.
Because there's a difference between wishing someone would understand you and actually taking the time and being interested in understanding why they might think the way that they think.
And when you're in a relationship with somebody, a sibling, a parent, an adult child, where you have got so much baggage built up, like you are literally pulling up to any conversation on the phone, any text message, any anything. I want you to imagine you have a freaking U-Haul next to you. You got everything that's ever happened, all the death by a thousand cuts.
You're both kind of locked in this. It just takes one person to change the dynamic. But here's the thing.
If you're the one that goes to therapy, if you're the one that listens to the podcast episodes, if you're the one that reads the Let Them Theory book, if you're the one that starts to calm yourself down and act like a more mature adult in the relationship, more loving person, if you're the one that's using the tools and you're saying, I wonder what it was like when my mom was such and such, or I wonder what it must have been like for my little sister, or I wonder what it was like for my dad.
and you step into their shoes, do not expect the other person to do the same thing. Because expecting someone else to meet you at the same level that you are now trying to learn about and meet yourself and go through life, they cannot do that unless they've done the work.
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