Today, you are getting the best dating advice out there for both you and your loved ones.Mel sits down with Logan Ury – a behavior scientist, dating expert, host of Netflix’s new dating series “The Later Daters,” and Director of Relationship Science at Hinge – to get her science-backed insights on finding success in dating.If dating apps make you feel hopeless, if you feel like dating is broken, or can’t seem to find “the one,” Logan’s insights will change your approach to finding love forever.Whether you're single, in a relationship, or supporting a loved one navigating the dating scene, this episode is packed with science-backed insights and actionable tools to help anyone find the love they deserve.For more resources, including links to the studies mentioned in the episode, click here for the podcast episode page.If you’re in your relationship and want tools and tips on how to make it better, listen to this episode next: 5 Signs of an Incompatible Relationship & 3 Signs You’ve Found “The One”Connect with Mel: Watch the episodes on YouTubeGet Mel’s new book, The Let Them TheoryFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Sign up for Mel’s personal letter Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes Disclaimer
Chapter 1: What are the current challenges of dating?
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Let's be real. Dating today feels broken. I mean, if you've ever caught yourself wondering, why is it so hard to find someone normal? Why does it always end in disappointment or something weird? Why is everybody out there a freak? I mean, no, seriously. I want you to know something.
If you're feeling discouraged about dating, you're not alone. Maybe you're tired of putting yourself out there only to get rejected or ignored or ghosted. Maybe you've stopped dating altogether. Well, today, I want to change your entire approach to dating in the modern world using data.
I don't care how old you are, how young you are, if you're in a relationship, a situationship, if you're not even sure what you're doing, everything you're about to learn today will change how you look at dating. You and I are going to sit down with Logan Urie, who is a Harvard-trained behavioral scientist who led teams at Google, who then pivoted to become a researcher on the science of love.
She is here after crunching data for five years as the director of relationship science at one of the largest online dating apps in the world. and she's gonna help you break out of the online dating patterns that just aren't working.
Clearly, she's also going to teach you very specific changes you need to make to your approach if you're gonna use online dating apps, because you're probably not using them correctly. Logan has the data, the insights, and the experience to back up the very specific fundamental changes you need to make right now, for example, to your online dating profile.
She wants you to shift your entire approach to the way you even think about dating and what she's about to share with you will transform the way you think about love, relationships, dating, and most importantly, yourself. So if you've ever felt like you're losing hope or that you're destined to be alone, you are wrong. You're not stuck. You're not too late. You can find the love that you deserve.
And this episode could be the moment that changes everything for you or someone you love. So let's get into it. Is it just me or does it feel impossible to stay in touch with and see your friends? I feel it.
And I want you to stick around to the very end of this episode for a special segment where I'm going to talk all about the importance of staying connected to your friends and a ton of simple ways you can do it. And I want to give a big shout out to our sponsor of this bonus segment, Celebrity Cruises. You can learn more at celebritycruises.com. Visit celebrity.com for details.
Ships registry, Malta and Ecuador. Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins. I am so fired up that you're here. This is gonna be an extraordinary episode. I know that you're gonna share this with absolutely everybody that you love because the topic is fire and it's relevant and you need to hear this. And I just wanna say it's always an honor to get to spend some time and be together with you.
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Chapter 2: Who is Logan Urie and what insights does she offer?
If you feel like all of your friends are married and you've been to a lot of weddings and now you're going to the baby showers and you feel like you're being left behind, this is an opportunity to really take a step back, look at the patterns of behavior that you have, identify some dating blind spots, and then make a different choice for yourself.
And if you are married or in a relationship, then you probably have someone you love who could really use this advice.
And in terms of, I'm thinking about my best friend from childhood, who you're going to hear from in a little bit, who is in her 50s, never married, never found love. Like, we'll get together and we'll down a bottle of wine, and next thing you know, she's crying because this is not how she wanted her life to turn out.
What do you want someone who is either post-divorce or they have never met the person and they're in their late 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s?
So I have a different answer for that than I would have had a year ago. So my research has mostly focused on millennial and Gen Z dating. And that's really the focus of Hinge. But then a year ago, I shot this TV show that's going to come out soon about daters over 55. And I had some nerves going into it because I was like, oh, I'm not an expert in this type of dating.
But the number one thing that came out of that for me is this idea that dating is a skill. And we're born knowing how to love, but not knowing how to date.
That right there, we are born knowing how to love, but not knowing how to date. So is it safe to assume that if you're divorced or you're in your 50s and you're not having luck, you absolutely are born knowing how to love, but you just don't know how to date?
Sure, and some of those people might know how to date, but it's just that there's a limited pool. There's other factors, but I really want it to be empowering for people because I want them to feel like, oh yeah, I do keep choosing men who are not emotionally available. Or I am really hesitant to get vulnerable with people and I could work on that.
So something that I learned by working on this show is the idea that dating is a skill and you can get better at it. And just because you get older doesn't mean you automatically know how to do it. So it's like you don't wake up on your 50th birthday and know how to make a delicious French meal. You don't wake up on your 50th birthday and know how to date.
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Chapter 3: How should you approach online dating differently?
And also for the last five years, being in this unique role at Hinge, where you have access to all the behind the scenes of how people are using the apps, what the trends are. And I just could not wait to dig into this because I have so many people in my life that are really struggling.
And one of the things that I wanted to ask you is, do you think that dating apps are helping people find love and make connection? Or are they really contributing to a sense of dissatisfaction?
So the data shows that dating apps really are helping people meet. Since 2017, the number one way that couples meet is online, and that's research from Stanford. Michael J. Rosenfeld is a sociologist there. That being said, of course, this is technology, and people can misuse technology, and I think it really can create some... difficult expectations for people. There's a paradox of choice issue.
And so I would say overall, way more people are meeting because of dating apps. It used to be that you had access to Bill and Belinda down the street or, you know, maybe the person that you worked with. And now you have access to a way larger pool of people. Right. And that's especially helpful if you're in what's called a thin dating market. So we're harder to meet people. And what does that mean?
Thin dating? Yeah, so it's like, it's not about your weight. It's about like the quantity of your pool. And so people over 40, LGBTQ plus folks, and people who live in rural areas, it's like, well, if I'm gay and I live in a small town, how do I know who's also gay and who's single? It's very helpful to be on Hinge to do that.
And so it has a lot of benefits for expanding choice, but then people also do struggle with choice. Got it.
Yeah. What's interesting to me, because I'm thinking about this as a woman who's 56, I've been married for 28 years, and I often think, thank God I am not single and in my 20s. Thank God Chris is still alive and I'm not post-divorce or post-death and I'm out there alone because I think I would absolutely implode if I were putting myself out there.
And I'm sure you're going to tell me otherwise, but here's one thing I've noticed. Yeah. I've noticed that, yes, almost most of the people that I know, especially in their 30s, met online. But most of the people that I know, men and women in their 20s, are feeling extremely discouraged about online. I know more women in their 20s in New York who are literally off the apps. They've just had it.
And so is that just... my group of people or are you seeing that this was a really good thing and now it's become really overwhelming because of the amount of choice and because of the way it may have changed the culture around dating?
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Chapter 4: What are the myths surrounding the 'spark' in relationships?
And then they stood up and their body type or their height was different from what you expected, you'd likely still want to see them again. Yes. But When you set your filters to really make it so strict and to have this bouncer keep them out of your club, you're not even getting the chance to meet them in the first place.
I love this analogy. So what is the specific advice to the person listening? Do you just remove all filters? Like, what do you recommend that someone do if you're in that camp where you're frustrated and you're blaming the algorithm, but you haven't actually ever looked at your own filters?
So my old advice for this used to be to expand your filters and to get less picky. So that's not what we should do? Well, in my dating class, I realized that a percentage of the population is also not picky enough. So for the majority of people... How the hell do I know? It basically is things like, do you feel like you have too many options and that you're getting overwhelmed?
And is that leading to burnout? Or do you consistently feel like you're holding up your phone saying, where's my wife? Where's my husband? Where's my significant other? I don't have enough matches. Got it. And it also is a mindset shift where are you somebody who's constantly finding flaws in other people?
Or are you someone who keeps saying things like, well, they didn't treat me that well, but they pursued me? But most people I work with do tend to be on the too picky side. And for them, I would say if you remove all filters, that's going to be chaotic. But look at your age filters. Can you go up a little bit in the maximum? Can you go down a little bit in the minimum?
Look at your geography filter. Can you make that broader? What are other ways that you're filtering people out? And can you actually focus less on that and focus more on the things that really matter? Yeah.
And for the people that feel like they're not picky enough, but they're just like overwhelmed, overwhelmed, overwhelmed, and really bummed by the choices, what is the advice there?
So one thing that we found in our research at Hinge that I use a lot in my coaching is that when women feel very overwhelmed, it's often because they don't feel like they're in the driver's seat of their dating life. Hmm. And so they say, oh yeah, I don't comment on anyone's photos. I don't send any likes. Why would I? I'm getting so many incoming messages.
And then I say to them, that's like saying, oh, I really want to find my dream job, but I'm only responding to the LinkedIn messages that recruiters are sending me. No one has ever gotten their dream job by waiting for an incoming message from a recruiter. You have to go out and look for it.
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Chapter 5: What should you do if you feel overwhelmed by dating?
Meaning, how do you start? What are the top three things to do if you're like, okay, I've done that. I'm on the app. Does it mean you got to reach out? You got to set a date? Is that what that is?
The number one thing is having a great profile. So I can tell you some good profile tips. Let's hear the profile tips. So in our research at Hinge, we found that your first photo should be a clear headshot. No filters, no sunglasses. Just what do you look like?
And then in your photos, you should- Professional headshot, a selfie with friends, with not like- I'm using the term headshot a little loosely, but just a photo of your face where it's clear to see what you look like. Alone? Nobody else in it, definitely. Do you see that in the data that you don't want somebody else in it? Oh yeah, it's so confusing. People are just like, which one are you?
And then they don't investigate. They just say, that's annoying. And they say, no. Okay, did you hear that everybody? Just you. It literally is answering the question, what do you look like? So just show us your face. In your photos, you should have a photo of you doing something that you love. So if you like hiking, if you love playing Scrabble, just paint a picture for us of your life.
Then you should have a full body shot. That's something that came up in the research. People want to see what you look like.
And then... And is there a reason... And the reason is... that there is an assumption if I can't see your body that you're hiding something?
Not necessarily. It's just something where we looked at the research of the profiles of people who were really successful. What did they include? And what does successful mean? Meaning that they're finding matches and deleting the app because they're in a relationship.
Well, that's a great success thing for Hinge. It's not. So I love that you're measuring success. Yeah. Not by how many people are getting likes and how many, because part of when you said full body, I immediately went, but what about people's bias? And what about the fact that there are human beings with ridiculous expectations and judgments?
And also there is this known behavior that people engage in. of crowding towards certain people. I would imagine if some people are like, but I don't want to put my body up. Like you're actually saying that showing your body in a photo is really important. Yeah. I'm just trying to give people the practical tools of what successful daters do differently. Great.
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Chapter 6: How can you identify and break common dating patterns?
So for those of you who are not techie like myself, she's basically making a box. Okay. That has four squares in it. So just draw a line up and down and then you can draw a little square around it. You get four cubes. Okay.
So at the top of the line, the vertical line, you say likelihood that I'll meet someone at this event. Okay, so right or left? Like on the top. Oh, so on the top.
So on the top of this thing, you're going to write, okay, what's the likelihood that you're going to meet someone at an event? Okay. Yeah, so. Like, for example, if I went to the Red Sox, probably not going to meet somebody. Oh, yeah. Because everybody's like super into the game. And unless I'm standing in line for the beer, although I could meet somebody in line.
Yeah. And then on the right-hand side, you'll say likelihood you'll enjoy it. Like enjoy this event. Enjoy this event. Yep. So I created this because I felt like I was working with a lot of busy people who were like, I really want to meet someone in real life, but I'm busy and what event should I prioritize? Okay.
So my recommendation for Molly and for anyone else is that look at a bunch of events. Look on Facebook, look on Meetup, follow different museums, whatever you're into. Look and then every time there's an event, you plot it on here. And the things that you think about are what's the likelihood that people interact at this event?
So maybe you love horror movies, but people don't really talk at a movie marathon versus a book club. It's all about talking and meeting. True. So the higher likelihood it is that people meet at this event, the higher it goes on here. And then on the right, you say, what's the likelihood that I'll enjoy it? So maybe you actually don't like reading.
So that's not a good fit for you, but you like bike repair workshops. So things that fall in the upper right-hand quadrant are things where people are likely to interact and you're likely to enjoy it. And those are the events that you should go to.
And the reason why I'm getting so mathematical about this is because I really want people to spend time at the things that are worth their while so that they don't get burned out. So If you really are going to like the event, then who cares if you met someone or not? You still did something that you liked. And really just take that moment to think about, will people there be talking?
So I actually feel like a Red Sox game could be good for this. That's true, actually. If you are a fan, you could talk to the people around you. One of my hottest tips for meeting people in real life is just get into a line and start talking about the line. How long have you been in this line? What are you going to order? Do you have any recommendations here?
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Chapter 7: What are the three dating tendencies to be aware of?
My advice for everyone and not just for dating is life doesn't happen to you. And if that is your way of thinking about the world, you're really missing out. So the client who says to me, these situationships keep happening and nobody will commit to me. Well, they're not happening to you. You are choosing people who are not ready, who are not emotionally open, who don't want to commit to you.
And then you're saying life is happening to me. That's being in the passenger seat of your love life and your life in general. So get out of the car, move to the driver's seat, take control of your dating life. And that's really how you're going to find and build the relationship of your dreams.
And what is the very first step based on everything that we've talked about that you want someone listening to do as soon as they're done with this to truly put themselves in the driver's seat about what they want?
If you are single and you've been single for a long time, take my quiz, find out what your dating tendency is, embrace the fact that you're a hesitator and you need to put yourself out there. Understand that you're a romanticizer and that you're very focused on the we met. Know that you're a maximizer and you're trying to find the perfect person.
Own that, grieve it a little bit, and then make a plan to move past it and really find what you're looking for. I love that.
Logan Urie, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. And I also want to thank you for spending time together with us. I know that you're going to be sending this episode and sharing this with all of your single friends and all of the young adults in your life. I'm so excited to hear how you put this to use.
And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And if part of that means finding an incredible partnership, I think you just got incredible tactical advice and a whole new perspective and way to look at the apps that will empower you and the people that you love to do that.
Alrighty, I will be waiting for you in the very next episode. Okay, great. Great. Okay, that works great. This is awesome. Do you need her to say that again? No, I know, but do you think we heard that or no?
I usually don't drink caffeine, but I drank some for this and I'm feeling great.
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