Interviewer
Appearances
48 Hours
Marriage Secrets
Did you really think that everybody could get along? That you could have a girlfriend and have a wife and everybody would be okay?
48 Hours
Marriage Secrets
I'm sure you've looked into what she was like in the days leading up to her death.
48 Hours
Marriage Secrets
How often were there collection agency calls? Regularly. And what did you do?
48 Hours
Marriage Secrets
You know the scuttlebutt is, Wesley burnt down the house, couldn't afford it anymore, set it on fire.
48 Hours
Marriage Secrets
No. Is there any chance that he's put one over on you? That you've fallen under Wesley's spell?
48 Hours
Marriage Secrets
Are you prepared if the verdict comes back guilty? Have you thought about that?
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
Have you talked to your bishop or the church about anything? No. No? How come?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Was this after you went to prison? What was after when I went to prison? You had a million dollars in crypto? No, that was before. Well, I want to get into all that. Yeah, it's honestly a lot. Okay, well, this is good. I'm glad that your story is strange. Well, it's made for a movie.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
From breach exposures to info stealing malware infections, knowing what criminals know about you and your business is the first step to setting things right. Resetting stolen passwords and addressing the enterprise access points that have been stolen by malware helps you protect your business from ransomware, account takeovers, and online fraud.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
What the hell? This would be a strong no for me. I would be out. You can't attack the head of U.S.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So as a teenager, what was your relationship with the government? Were you politically active? Was your dad politically active?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Well, I mean, just a random phone call is not going to be that big of a deal. But did you say, I've also got access... It was his personal cell phone number.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So what happened to the police department? Now we got your motive. What did you do? Oh, well, we...
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Yeah, let's talk about that then. So how'd you get those several million?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So John Holdren, I have written down here that someone tried to swat him.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
And then saying there's a violent incident here and then them coming to his house.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
There was an undercurrent of people online at the time that you were mixed up in that was also very involved in this sort of thing. Talking about Anonymous, for example. Anonymous was always calling out injustices of the world and threatening this and that because people were just being evil. And it felt like being part of that was the winning side.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Well, let's talk about that. So how do you think the, uh, How did they catch you?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
What happened? Did they knock on the door? Tell me about that incident. No, dude. They definitely don't knock on the door.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
They pulled you out of that room and someone else went in there to start taking your computer. I mean, they can't unplug it and take it. They know they've got to collect it.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So I just want to get a verbal confirmation for... I don't know, legal reasons or whatever. It's okay to record this call to use on the podcast Darknet Diaries. Is that okay with you?
Darknet Diaries
138: The Mimics of Punjab
You got to probably appreciate your cousin for helping you out. If you get in jail, he's going to send you $1,200. Yes, exactly.
Fresh Air
Comedian Ronny Chieng Didn't Tell His Parents He Got A 'Daily Show' Job
What did they end up doing?
Honestly with Bari Weiss
They Tortured Him for Years. Now They Rule Syria.
— In a matter of days, you have taken major cities. What's changed? How are you able to do this now?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, Adam gets comments about that with his face. Like we get comments on our videos all the time where they're like, that brown guy looks real, but that other guy looks AI.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
It should be because AI people look perfect, you know, so I think you should take it as a compliment.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
You learn a lot about how stuff works.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, it starts to feel bad when you see all that stuff piling up in your closet.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, that transition is painful, but like you said, you can get to a better place on the other side. And I think there's a lot of technical details, but I think what it comes down to me is, you know, I sit at my desk and there's this thing sitting here and my whole life is coming through it. Like it's what helps me provide for my family. It connects me to the whole world, everything.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
And knowing how that thing works, like having deep customization of it and like feeling that harmony with it, like it's just good for your soul, like beyond any of the technical details. And kind of when you get there, it's hard to explain to other people, but you really feel a lot more connected with this really important thing that's, you know, sitting on your desk every day.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, I think beyond the fear that you described that people have, I actually think there's another dimension too. There's almost like a pride. I think there's like this narrow definition of productivity where they're like, if I have to learn something, That's not productive. And they kind of have this very narrow path of like, I'm someone that loves being productive. I'm all about business.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
That means I value these things. But a lot of this stuff, like you said, when you go and understand these underlying things, that does make you more productive in ways that are really hard to explain. You get advantages in other places. So yeah, I think for me, it's more like there's a weird pride with not knowing this stuff. I think that's like... hard to shake people up.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
But I think the reason we wanted to have you on here was you've been talking a lot more about Linux on the desktop, which I've been a lifelong Linux on desktop person. It's been like 12 years, I think, so far. But yeah, we just want to hear about... I guess, what got you into that? Is this a new thing for you? What's the story behind all this?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, the point about the tools working, like the cloud tools, like also all those things being retained, that's a good one. So I work on infrastructure as code stuff and all of our tooling was developed for deploying cloud services, right? So there's good ideas there, like declaratively defining config, like applying that. And we realized the other day,
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
we we can just point all the same stuff to like a docker daemon running on a machine and it all works exactly the same so all the great benefits that we kind of invented in the cloud uh you can just use that same model uh anywhere so yeah it's quite a different experience and i also posted the other day i was remembering
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
the first my first company i actually launched it off my laptop like it was i even kind of it was like a it was wi-fi it was like a wi-fi laptop right and this was like in 2010 uh eventually we moved that to servers in my parents basement like literally in my parents basement and we sold the company at that point and i remember like the first thing they did they were like yeah we need you guys to move that off of there it's probably not secure but i actually did build and sell a company that
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Love it. Yeah. It was dusty down there. Those servers are still there, too. I could probably still use them. But yeah, like, you know, I did build and sell a company that way. It's a lot better these days to do something like that, though.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I mean, that resonates a lot with me. The work that we do is... Some of these resellers you're talking about, sometimes they do come up with cool ways to deploy stuff or they come with stuff that we wouldn't have thought of. And what we do is we take it and we just make it open source so that people can use it wherever they need to. So...
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
There's like a it's a little antagonistic, but there's also like a like a harmony to it as well. Yeah, I think all capitalism, the idea of capitalism is there's no permanence. If you have permanence, it doesn't work. You need things to get destroyed. Yes. Occasionally. Yes. And you can't be a capitalist if you don't believe in that.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah. So the one thing I will say I kind of disagree a little bit is I think if you are going to use a cloud, if you're going to use one of the public clouds,
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
if you try to use it in a way where you're just trying to rent servers you're gonna have a horrible experience like it's way too expensive to do that if your approach is uh i'm renting servers i'm gonna run my own software just don't use the cloud at all just go to like you said that's stuff that you guys are using um go directly to data centers that offer renting the hardware directly you can have a much better experience
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
If you are going to use a cloud, you might as well, like, just commit to something, like, commit to using it properly. And then, yeah, you can use the services, high-level services. They're more expensive, but at least you get the benefit. I think it's this middle ground where you, like, try to use a cloud in this agnostic way. Like, that's just never going to work out at all.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
So whatever model clicks for you, like... If you like console servers, just go buy them directly. It's probably at least 10x cheaper, if not more.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I actually wouldn't count both of those because I guess what I'm talking. So those are like just shitty repackaging of RDS. Stuff that you can just run directly, right?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
where like that that's fixable yeah yeah so i i think where we can agree on is uh like i'm still gonna like i use the cloud heavily like clicks for me um but what i don't like is the people that are like quote unquote on that side don't know how to do the other thing so it's just like i can't really trust your opinion even though you're like on this side because
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
you're doing it out of not knowing the other side. Like I've always had a home lab that I managed, uh, would run whatever, like I would use to expand my old, like Kubernetes with nomad, like all the different orchestration stuff. Um, so I've seen how that stuff has progressed and I, I enjoy it.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Like I said, just like with my, with my desktop, it's, it's really good when you like curate, that's a garden almost, um, running all like all the services that power my family stuff. Um, So I have a sense of that. So when I choose stuff, when I'm choosing the cloud, I'm choosing it with like awareness of what I'm trading off and what I'm balancing.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
So I have a quick question for you. So this is a thought I had the other day because I feel a lot of the same things you're talking about where I'm like, people these days don't even know how to X. Yes, I am. And you remember when we were young, people would say that to us. So... Like, are we just doomed to repeat this? Is this actually going to change? Is it actually different this time?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Sometimes these big data centers, there's only like there's only like two people that are there like on call. Yeah, it's not even like a whole team or anything.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
You guys have equal amounts of gray in your beard. I'm the one that's still all black.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, I mean, it's just like your transition to Linux. It was painful. You didn't know that it could be better, but eventually you kind of got there.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
So one last thing I have to plug this because you mentioned you like to ease. You're like blown away by like how crazy to get. Have you seen what we've done with our coffee shop? I have not. So we built a coffee shop that's served entirely over SSH. So if you do SSH terminal dot shop, that's awesome. You get like a full coffee buying. You can literally buy coffee and it shows up at your house.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I don't drink coffee either, but I sell it.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
uh but it was fun because so i love it adam worked on a lot of the like the front end for it but it was cool because it's a very constrained ui you can't have like different font sizes you can only do like colors and stuff but the constraints kind of breed like a lot of cool stuff and build yeah constraints are the best there's like amazing tui tools that i've also been going deeper and i've built a
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I love it. Yeah, it's wild. Like it's better UX than a lot of the more powerful, you know, environments that we have UI in.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
There we go. Everyone's going to be running their own servers and we're only going to be serving up 2Es over SSH. That's the future. Yeah. All right.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
It was funny. Appreciate it. All right.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
And all the historical data you have. It's like impossible to switch. All the data was embedded with it.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington
Tell us a little bit about Nancy Ward, when she lived, what the state of the Cherokee Nation was doing during that time, and how she was seen amongst her contemporaries.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington
So she had ties with Daniel Boone? Oh, yes.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington
She was connected with all these presidents and famous people. Well, how did she get that much stature?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Meeting Mother Teresa
Wow. It's one thing to know about it, but you're right. It's another thing to experience it. Yes. Yeah. Now you mentioned at the beginning that your parents didn't have life insurance, didn't have insurance. And this show is by no means even aware a life insurance company. Is it really pushing life insurance?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Meeting Mother Teresa
I've seen being in the business now, how having this protection has helped so many families and not burden the kids. number and the spouse when something happens. But what's been your experience with life insurance and what you've seen over the years with your employees and even the people that you serve?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Call From JFK / Riding Shotgun with an Oscar
Do you have any personal stories of your time with the Kennedys that really struck a chord with you?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Call From JFK / Riding Shotgun with an Oscar
Was there a time that there was a personal accomplishment that you did that made you feel like, yes, I honor my father. I was blessed to be in that situation. But you know what? I'm pretty proud of myself, too.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Uncovering a Secret Family
You've been doing this for a bit now, and is there a couple success stories or one that comes to the top of your mind of anybody that really touched your heart, that really showed the impact of you preserving these memories?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Uncovering a Secret Family
He had another family. So in other words, he was kind of married to two people or what?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Uncovering a Secret Family
What was that experience like for them? Did they ever share that with you? Have you ever gotten into that a little bit with them?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
What do you think? Like whatever donations you get. Okay.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So you started that institute at the end of 2017.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Well, we in Europe, we are used to be a bit behind. But if I can recall 2016, there was no discussion about AI in Europe at all. And so it's quite interesting to see that Obama has actually, you know, decided that it's finally time to do something about this topic nobody has ever really talked about.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
We're going to talk a lot about Europe today as well. But my question is, can you describe what kind of discussions were going on 10 years ago in American society that this has come up to be something of a topic for the near future, which actually became a big one. Where did this discussion take place?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
You just got the Nobel Prize in physics, interestingly enough.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Yeah, because there's no computer Nobel Prize.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I think deep learning was just the technology that perfectly served their current beliefs in that they have to work on the data, that they have to build up algorithms to somehow predict your personal future and be there with an ad before you even know it. And we've seen this everywhere.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
as an ad everywhere and we've also seen it in political influence as we've seen in the Brexit decision and also in the elections where we heard there's going to be one in the near future as well in the US that might be influenced as well let me check my calendar I mean I think we can like peel back also just this concept of like what is an advertisement right
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Before we dig more into the Signal project, which in itself I think is quite interesting, we'd like to understand how did you get there, where you are right now? So what was your introduction into this digital world? When did it start?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Was Google still running under the motto of don't be evil at the time?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
It was kind of the end of it, wasn't it?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And like for that matter much more than developers.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
energy and solidarity already at that point and then how many percent of the google employees would you say have at one point taken part in this i don't know we were really careful not to keep lists yeah i mean you can dream up a number now you know i i
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So did Google then still love you at that point?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I mean, it leads to an interesting point because I would say looking from the other side of the ocean, I think to us, this whole tech scene the startups, the new stuff, the internet, everything that has developed in the last 20 years or so always had this liberal touch to it. It felt as if it was mostly about an
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
open world loving agenda and it's good for everybody and google's kind of tuned in with their motto and some other companies did as well some not so much but it was always this this feeling that this is uh that the liberal thinking is at the core of everything that is driving the internet forward
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
and I think we stopped thinking that now because it looks totally different right now currently we have more the feeling that it's turned into a total right wing thing apocalypse apocalypse somehow and i haven't really seen this coming can you explain what happened to this tech scene what what happened i well you know i think about post 9-11 and a lot of the fights over surveillance and tech
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Logbuch Netzpolitik number 503 from October 16, 2024. And you will have noticed it. Wir sprechen eine andere Sprache. Wir sprechen eine andere Sprache heute, weil wir haben heute einen Gast und das ist dann ein Gespräch, was wir heute auf Englisch führen wollen.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I heard some other things, but I think one of the problems was that Twitter didn't see itself as a messaging platform, which was probably a mistake from their point of view.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I find it quite interesting how encryption as a topic has changed over time. It's just more or less 10 years ago that Facebook actually changed to HTTPS on their website by default. And So there was a time not so long ago, you know, where most of the data was flowing around on the internet, mostly unencrypted.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And that although there was these already mentioned crypto wars, you know, about general encryption, but it was also always for nerds and for specific applications. Then it also got this nice paint with this whole cryptocurrency thing
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
craze going uh on which made it somehow popular and almost took the word away we're so wrestling and uh yeah and it was also the rise of of of uh encrypted messaging that was really giving uh it's a new fuel so single was in the middle of all of this as we already heard So I'd like to focus on Signal for a moment as an organization that you now head.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
What's your understanding of what Signal is and what it's not and how the organization deals with it?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Well, there's still ICQ and AIM, I think, at the time.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Do people in the EU understand what you're talking about if you are offering these technical explanations why it's complicated? Because we have the impression that they don't really get it.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Which brings me to an interesting point because we are actually very interested in your view as an American, knowing how things work on that continent. What's your impression of how Europe deals with tech, these new technologies coming up and how it impacts society? Can you just give me a feeling for how this is to you? In a good way, in a bad way, whatever you feel, just to…
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I'm just focusing on what you can probably match to Europe in general or at least to the kind of discussions you have on a political level when you face EU institutions.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Which five platforms would you... This is what's going to happen.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So you're not talking about these big tech... Okay, you're focusing on cloud, not so much on the social media aspect.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Back to the magical thinking of Europe.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
But apart from the magical thinking, is there anything else you would stick to in Europe?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Yeah, the GDPR is probably a German thing somehow in its core. For sure. So how does this affect the talk to European politicians and how do you see the trends in regulations and trying to apply new laws and regulations towards this whole tech industry?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So I read it as you think that the European positions might be slightly under-informed and probably not well thought out in the current situation? Yeah.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Let's stick to this topic because it's still an ongoing battle right now. We are more or less talking about this in every of our shows. And yeah, it's still totally unclear what's going to come out of this. How do you see this discussion evolve?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
But how do you deal with it? If you say the strength of your argument is not enough?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So basically the discussion is led by pointing the other side to the infeasibility of the approach.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Then they will say, but we have to do something.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
They might only have two people, but at some point in time, they might have doubled by adding another one.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Okay, leaving out Signal completely now, what do you think happened? Pavel Dorf was put into custody, he's now free on bail and Franz talked to him.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So does Signal get these requests too?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So Cigna as a company, how does it work? I mean... It's a non-profit. Yeah.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And how do you get your talent? How do you get people to work for Signal?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So the last place in tech where people are actually happy?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
That sounds like a quick upgrade from a customer support person to me. So you mentioned MLab, which stands for measurement lab.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And you mean not only a model for other communication companies, but also a model for any kind of technology company?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
That's not what I meant. I mean, I understood you that you think that the... modus operandi of Signal as a company might be something that other companies could also leverage and do. It's not only limited to some much needed devices.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Can you explain what this is all about and how it came alive and why you were involved?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
It does, but it's not turned on by default now.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
What would you say is the dividing line right now between useful applications for machine learning, expert systems, AI stuff and the hype?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
In a computer science-y way. I mean, really like making applications possible that haven't been before that actually do useful stuff to people or society.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Yeah, you're going right into surveillance capitalism again. Yeah, no, well, that's my, I'm really good at making that turn. I'm looking for a rosy outlook into the future, like hope. Anything in store?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So for practical reasons, you had unlimited bandwidth and zero latency to everywhere.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Old school ideological commitment. You don't sound like a book nerd now. You've become a real network nerd.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
It's like a real... I read the fucking manual.
Lords of Death
6 | Angel of Death
Now, do you think that he was the ringleader of that situation or do you think that he was just more along for the ride?
PBD Podcast
ABC Pays Trump $15M, January 6 Cover Up, Trudeau To Resign, NJ Drone Theories | PBD Podcast | Ep. 521
You're shaming me for my political choices. I'm asking you a question about why you endorse someone who's been found liable for rape.
PBD Podcast
ABC Pays Trump $15M, January 6 Cover Up, Trudeau To Resign, NJ Drone Theories | PBD Podcast | Ep. 521
You've repeated that again and again and again.
PBD Podcast
ABC Pays Trump $15M, January 6 Cover Up, Trudeau To Resign, NJ Drone Theories | PBD Podcast | Ep. 521
I mean, you keep saying I'm shaming you.
PBD Podcast
ABC Pays Trump $15M, January 6 Cover Up, Trudeau To Resign, NJ Drone Theories | PBD Podcast | Ep. 521
How is the question asking about a presidential candidate?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
823. Andy & DJ CTI: Mysterious Drones Spotted Over New Jersey, Daniel Penny Acquitted & Luigi Mangiones' Fatal Shooting Of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson
What in you caused you to want to get involved?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
823. Andy & DJ CTI: Mysterious Drones Spotted Over New Jersey, Daniel Penny Acquitted & Luigi Mangiones' Fatal Shooting Of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson
The guard makes us turn the camera off while he shoots the lock off the cell door. Press up. We go in to get a closer look. It's still not clear if there is something under the blanket. Oh, it moved. Is there someone there? Hello?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
823. Andy & DJ CTI: Mysterious Drones Spotted Over New Jersey, Daniel Penny Acquitted & Luigi Mangiones' Fatal Shooting Of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson
Or is it just a blanket?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
823. Andy & DJ CTI: Mysterious Drones Spotted Over New Jersey, Daniel Penny Acquitted & Luigi Mangiones' Fatal Shooting Of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson
We're going to save you from all your oppression.
Search Engine
The End
Have you read it? about the explorers who went out here first, like in the 1880s and stuff?
Search Engine
The End
Right, which slightly incentivizes some of us in the world to just not do very much good.
Search Engine
The End
Have there been times, as a person who has gradually become more and more excited about cryptocurrency, are there moments you have where you just feel conflicted, like this sector is not great for the climate? Yes, constantly.
Search Engine
The End
It's like marble with a crack in it. You like see the section that's cut out like a slice of wedding cake.
Search Engine
The End
I feel like I'm going to spend this weekend talking to people that want to convince people like you to be more worried, basically.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And Ryan, if you could talk to her, if she could see this message from you, if she could see some of your appearances, what would be your message to her?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And what is she like as a person?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And Dog, you actually knew Hannah, which I kind of wondered about because you're from Hawaii. Hannah's from Hawaii. I know you've got a lot of connections there. What do you know about her?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
I'm joined now by Hannah's sister, Sydney Kobayashi, and the family's attorney, who's a very familiar face on this program, Sarah Azari, NewsNation's legal analyst. Thank you to both of you. Sydney, I want to begin with you. And first of all, I'm just really sorry that You and your family are going through what you're going through. I cannot imagine what it's like.
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
And then to sort of see this news conference, do you have any idea why Hannah is staying silent so long?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
So, Sydney, we all learned yesterday with the news conference that Hannah had crossed on foot, seemingly by herself of her own volition, into Mexico. When did you and the family learn about that detail?
Serialously with Annie Elise
223: The Truth About Hannah Kobayashi: Love Triangle Scam, She's Refusing to Leave Mexico & The Shocking Twist
Wow, you weren't given any advance notice?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Absolutely. So total shift of gears.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
What's next? As you look to the future, where do we go from here?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
I really don't say this lightly, but I think it's super inspiring to see the path you've paved. I mean, you're wise beyond your years.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
I really appreciate you being here. Thank you very much. Of course. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you all.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Okay, so I've got to put this in perspective. You're 12.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
That's a legit thing to like. When I was 12 years old, I was worried about making sure I had enough hairspray for my bangs, got braces in the seventh grade. Who liked who? Where did this come from? Just talk to me about that.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
When was your first like, hey, I'm on the cusp of making some major histories?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
And I think to your point, hardware available to the masses.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Here you are today, co-founder of your own social media music management firm. You are young.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Oh my gosh. Okay. So do you consider yourself more of an artist or more of a business person?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
So this whole genre of business is relatively new. I mean, what is it, 20 years old, maybe?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
So knowing now all the platforms that we have, what advice do you give to folks that say, hey, now, I mean, let's say it's been 20 years. I mean, now it's flooded. So how do you differentiate yourself if you were just now coming up into it?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
That's great counsel. So running your company, what are some of the business things that you wish you knew that you had to learn the hard way?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Well, hey, I really appreciate you being here. Of course. So you obviously have such an incredible background, especially for being, and I'm just going to say it, so young. So I kind of want to start there. One of the things I read about your background is that when you were 12, you had 10,000 followers to a AOL account for the Backstreet Boys.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Thank you, by the way, for the vulnerability of sharing that. Of course. One of the things I think you really hit the nail on the head with is the people side of the business. What are some of the resources that you've leaned on to help develop your leadership and management styles?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Well, and one of the things, I've heard you say this before, you say you don't learn how to be fascinating, you unlearn how to be boring.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Larry Wingate one time said, you know, the whole challenge of the speaking profession is to discover your uniqueness and exploit it in the service of others.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
So the new book is called How the World Sees You. And this thing is like, it is awesome.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Such an exciting show for you today. Sally Hogshead is a Hall of Fame speaker and her first book was called Fascinate, Your Seven Triggers to Persuasion and Captivation. And she is an expert in branding, in personal branding, and particularly the world's leading expert on fascination. And she's made a few minutes to be with us here. Sally, thank you for joining us.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Sally, this is awesome. I mean, it's fascinating. I mean, to use your term. So, Sally, you are just you are amazing.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Can you just give us like a quick rundown of what Fascinate is?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Find a Problem and Own It
Thank you, by the way, for the vulnerability of sharing that. Of course.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Find a Problem and Own It
That's great counsel. So running your company, what are some of the business things that you wish you knew that you had to learn the hard way?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
OK, second part of that. How do you answer a question that you don't have an answer for?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Winning "The Apprentice" / "The Mega-Brands That Built America"
You were the winner of season one of The Apprentice, which maybe people don't remember was an absolute phenomenon when it was on the air. What was it like to suddenly be in the public eye and what are some of the habits and practices that set you apart from your peers and competitors and ultimately helped you win?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Winning "The Apprentice" / "The Mega-Brands That Built America"
Well, continuing that long television career, you're now featured on the mega brands that built America airing on the History Channel, which is really entertaining. Look into the early innovations in some of the biggest businesses of our time. Do you have a favorite episode or one that surprised you the most?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Bullet Holes, KGB, and Fighting Stereotypes
Yeah. The injection of entrepreneurial spirit that coming to the US and having that experience can change a country. Absolutely. What are some of the bigger stereotypes that you've seen broken down because of the nature of hosting and as a result of your work?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Bullet Holes, KGB, and Fighting Stereotypes
It was a true, pure, real exchange experience for these kids. It also plays a massive role in creating cultural relationships for countries.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
More recently through COVID and in these last few years, what are some lessons that you've taken back and thought about the work that you wrote in Redefining Possible and new applications, new inspirations that you've had?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
I always get in a place where I question whether I'll still think what I'm putting down is important. You now have this perspective, I guess, coming back and adding some highlights to the book. When you wrote it, I guess, how did you know that this was going to be something that you'd read again five years later and go, oh, yes, I still believe these things. It's still important to me.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
A hundred percent. Yeah. I love that. Who did you write this book for? Who are the people that are going to pick this up, read it and go, gosh, that's exactly what I needed.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
Of some of the principles that you bring up, redefining possible, what's another one, I guess, that you're really have been focused on here over the last year or two?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Progress Over Perfection
What feedback or advice would you give a young version of yourself? Like a 21-year-old Luis that's coming out. What do you think that 21-year-old version of you would need to hear from yourself today?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Progress Over Perfection
I'm always intrigued by companies that are able to create that culture.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Progress Over Perfection
You know, a lot of folks will, you know, ask, where do I build my community?
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
Do you plan on supporting the speaker in January?
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
The other thing that I put in the book that I recommended the boss to do hits on this. We need a 24-7 declassification office. Yes. Rolling papers out 24-7. And not just like JFK and not just 9-11. You're talking to the guy that's read the whole 9-11 report and those seven pages that people talk about.
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
But I believe as like the guy who is an intel guy who believes wholeheartedly in the classified system of information... I believe that it has been over-abused by these corrupt officials in government to hide the truth and enact more corrupt activities. So what I told the boss was like, I don't care what you call it, truth and reconciliation, whatever, come up with a better name.
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
But every agency and department literally submits all of their documentation. And I believe you could get half out. Half. I still think the other half needs to remain classified. I'll always argue that it does serve a purpose. But like you're seeing in these documents in the Jack Smith case, they're just redacting stuff that they lied about, that they broke the law.
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
There were some anti-Trump sentiments going on among GOP voters during his first term. What does it look like now for his second?
The Dan Bongino Show
Things Have Changed, It's Trump's GOP Now (Ep. 2390)
Should senators who oppose your nominees, your cabinet nominees, should they be primaries?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
In order for your team to know, what decisions you'd make before, you know, it even comes to you as it relates to the branding, the positioning of it and all those things. That must first start with you being really, really clear.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
And what I've got from all of that is because you're so clear in your head and non-negotiable about what this brand is, you've been able to kind of like install that in all of the people around you. So now they are like disciples of the values. For sure. We actually have a Bible. Oh, really?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
And I feel like now the brand really is going global. Everyone wants to know what's in that Bible. What kind of things are in there?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
LinkedIn ads also gives you access to professional network of individuals who influence your business. With over a billion members, 130 million decision makers, and 10 million C-suite executives, in this clip, Charlie Sloth talks about dialing up your brand's most desirable traits. So if you're ready to kill the guesswork and show the best version of your brand, LinkedIn Ads is where it starts.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
One of the things I found really interesting is I read that you deleted,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
potentially hundreds of episodes of fire in the booth that just didn't cut it yeah which which i think a lot of people would be surprised by because you know a rapper an artist comes down they perform they might think it's gone off they might think that you know they killed it and then you're sat there thinking this doesn't meet the standard
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
When it comes to B2B marketing, the goal is often the same. Turn up the volume on what makes your brand irresistible and stand out from the competition. But guessing usually doesn't get you there. LinkedIn ads does. They're also the sponsor of this episode. Here you can accurately target your audience and leverage engagement tools and analytics to help you reach the right people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 192: The Fire In The Booth That Would Have Destroyed My Brand: Charlie Sloth
Give them a try now with a $100 credit to launch your first campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash DOAC24. Terms and conditions apply. Here's Charlie. When it comes to building a brand that has integrity, what matters? You know, this is a brand. Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
They're also the sponsor of this episode. Here you have access to professional network of individuals who influence your business with over a billion members, 130 million decision makers, and 10 million C-suite executives. So you can kill the guesswork and know exactly who you're reaching. If you're ready to make an impact, give LinkedIn Ads a try and enjoy this moment on us.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
How do I find which story to tell? Because if I'm running this podcast and I'm thinking, okay, I need to do the logo, the branding, I need to position it in a way that's going to be... This is typically the way the brain thinks. It's trying... The outcome is success. And it's trying to figure out which story to tell to get me to success. So how do I make this podcast successful?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
When you think of the most iconic logo in the world, which brand comes to mind? For me, it's probably Nike. Their former CMO Greg Hoffman knew exactly how critical strong brand recognition was. And in this clip, he shares his tactics on leveling up your own marketing. I have about 40 companies in my portfolio. And when I think about what's worked in terms of marketing, LinkedIn ads stands out.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
How do you go about knowing where and how to find that story in your business, brand, team, whatever it is? And which one is the right one to tell to get the outcome I'm looking for, which is success?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
Or if you want to get started now, LinkedIn Ads is offering $100 credit to launch your first campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash DOAC24 to claim your credit. Terms and conditions apply. To create a strong emotional connection with someone else, I'm presuming you have to take a strong emotional stance yourself often.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
Which happens a lot. For me, so some things that we do intentionally to try and communicate the, I guess the heart of what we're doing on this podcast, for example, in the branding. So one of the things is we always make sure it feels like home. So it's in, whether in LA or in London, it's actually shot in my actual kitchen on a very similar looking table.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
People are actually surprised it looks exactly the same, but we always shoot it at home because I think the conversations we're having are homely ones. They're the ones people have at home. They're not ones that, you know, we could go do this in a massive studio, but it wouldn't be in line with our values. The other thing is it's dark in here. So that speaks to the subject matter.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
Sometimes it speaks to secrets. The other thing is obviously the title of the podcast is The Diary of a CEO. And you ask yourself what one might keep in a diary. It tends to be things that are a little bit deeper. And there's all these small things, you know, we even, I mean, we spend many days this week, me and Jack debating removing the microphones.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
because it kills what the humanness of authentic communication. So we're thinking about ways where we can have the microphones hanging, where we can remove the barrier and all these small things. I guess, is that the frame? Or when you think about brand elements, you're talking more about like colors and things like that?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
So I'm just thinking about the things that have evoked the strongest emotional connections with anything I do. The things that have evoked the strongest emotional connections with this podcast and its audience are strong emotional stories. But when you do that, when you avoid indifference, you are putting yourself in line for potential criticism and attacks and you're going to polarize people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 191: Inside Nike’s Branding Genius: Lessons for Building an Iconic Brand: Greg Hoffman
Some people are going to love and hate you. How important has that been for Nike? And how important is it for a person starting a podcast or a business or leading a team or whatever else?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2193 - Jack Symes
We've got to put our headphones on and hear it. All right. Trump on gay rights. You mentioned the Bible. You've been talking about how it's your favorite book. And you said, I think last night in Iowa, some people are surprised that you say that. I'm wondering what one or two of your most favorite Bible verses are and why.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2193 - Jack Symes
There's no verse that means a lot to you that you think about or cite?
The Matt Walsh Show
Ep. 1506 - Why Derek Chauvin Deserves a New Trial (And Will Win It)
Yeah. Go ahead. I want to hear from you, Jodi. Why is that? You brought that up? What did you? I brought that up because it's- Tell me what you brought up and why.
The Matt Walsh Show
Ep. 1506 - Why Derek Chauvin Deserves a New Trial (And Will Win It)
Why do you think that was a light bulb?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E551 Timothée Chalamet
Yes. I've covered a lot of fashion weeks. This is the first time I've run in to Jim Carrey.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E551 Timothée Chalamet
Well, they say they're celebrating icons inside.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Today's episode is brought to you by Alma. Finding the right therapist can be hard. I know this from experience. Some of the challenges include sifting through hundreds of options or no options at all, not being able to understand therapy approaches, specializations, degrees, or being assigned a therapist without really getting to test the waters. But it's easier to get started with Alma.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Okay, so Harlow is the fake name of your sister in the book. Love how you write about Harlow and how she, it's just beautiful. Okay, so let's just say Harlow stabbed somebody in the head with a pencil. What she feels after is, oh my God, I did this horrible thing. That person's hurting. I feel so guilty. Everyone's going to be mad at me. I'm a terrible person. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
And I'm not, I'm just saying Harlow being a neurotypical. Yes. No, I can't even imagine her doing something like that. But yes, correct. All of those. So that's Harlow's mind afterwards are neurotypical. You stab somebody with a pencil. What exactly is happening in your mind with your grownup perspective of relief? Because you're being yourself.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I understood it as I'm trying to feel something, but that's not it. That's not exactly it, right? It's not just trying to feel something. It's I am asserting who I am in this moment and I don't give a fuck.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Okay. Do you see superpowers of sociopathy? Because I want to hear about all the like, I know it can be dangerous. People, this is not like something to glamorize. It's messy. However, I will point to a few things. Like when you talk about the tranquility and things coming in and out, and I'm like, isn't this what I'm trying to like?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We are psyched today. We have a fascinating guest today that I have been listening to and reading and have learned so much, not just about her, but about all of us from her work. Her name is Patrick Gagne, and she is a writer, former therapist, and advocate for people with sociopathic, psychopathic, and antisocial personality disorders.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I'm paying all these people to make me sit down and breathe for an hour so I can get to this non-attachment place. Or when I think about what we think of as good people, quote, who feel a lot of things, I think I make some of my worst decisions from powerful emotions. Not my best. Like I almost have to be in the non-attachment to make my best decision.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
So do you see superpowers of this or is it just something to manage?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
It's like being an emotional atheist compared to a Christian who is only doing good things because I'm scared shitless I'm going to hell. Like who's the better person? The person who's only doing it to save their ass or the person who's choosing to do it through no dogma, through no feeling that's going to come up in there just because it's the right thing that they've decided.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Her New York Times bestselling memoir, Sociopath, so good, so good, shares her struggle to understand her own sociopathy and shed light on this often maligned and misunderstood mental disorder. Welcome, Patrick. How are you?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Like it's just an around and around and around we go. And if you tell them it doesn't matter if you learn it, what matters is if it's inherent in you. No, that's yeah. That's the second. It's the double bind. It doesn't matter. No. The goalpost is always changing. If you learn it, you're fake and we don't like you. Right. But so is it something that's so massive?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Really good. We're good. Patrick, what is a sociopath?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
It's bigger than it's what we believe as a culture. You are only good if you feel a certain way. It doesn't matter what you do. It's what you feel. And so if we taught kids differently, would kids who didn't inherently feel these social emotions not have to act out in the first place because they wouldn't be being told that they were bad?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Would it fix the even negative to culture effects of sociopathy at the root? And then allow us to see the superpowers. For example, if I'm going into surgery, I don't want my surgeon to be a fucking empath. I don't want my surgeon going, oh my God, I feel so bad for you. I don't necessarily want empaths on the front line of activism. I don't want someone like me in all those places, honestly. So-
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Does it start so early with how we define what is a good person and a bad person? Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
That's so cool. That's really cool. What is the hardest part of being a sociopath in a marriage?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
So you're just like everyone else is what you're saying.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
But don't, okay, I think this might be one of the reasons why I'm so fascinated by all of this and you and all this work Is that I think I have bought the idea over a long time that being an empath, being empathetic is the goodest girl. It's like the kindest thing to be. I am now in a phase of my life where I'm wondering if being an empath is horseshit.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
if that it's just hypervigilance, if it's just, if it's just a group of people who were raised in houses where they had to be hypervigilant of everyone else's feelings, because me saying, I am an empath. I feel what you feel is impossible. I don't feel what you feel. I feel what's coming up inside of me. That is about me. I'm not a vampire.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I can't like suck out exactly what you're feeling and put it in me. So, in some ways, all we're doing, the empaths, is using everyone else to regulate our own self. It's actually quite selfish.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Because Patrick, it would make us too upset. Correct, correct.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
They're the best. Actually, you wear them to work out and you wear them out to dinner. That is true.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
And you wear them under suits and you wear them to bed.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I start using this stuff and it is actually a damn delight. All of these different flavors. Like why did toothpaste decide it has to only be one flavor? Boca's secret ingredient is nano hydroxyapatite. NHA for short. It was first used by NASA astronauts in space to help rebuild their teeth, and now it's in Boca's toothpaste to restore yours.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I mean, that's what I'm trying to get to my whole life. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
So you don't need guilt and shame to be a good person. Not a good person. What's the word? You're happy-ish as anyone else, right? You have beautiful relationships. Yeah. You live a life of truth and freedom and service. So is what you're saying partly that guilt and shame are not needed to create connection?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
The little girl with the face on the window, looking in the window, looking into what other people's experience might be and wondering about it. maybe a little bit of longing. Is that tied to the lifetime of finding some sort of solace in breaking into people's houses and searching their house, looking around in college, taking people's cars?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Was it all kind of like an effort to get inside another person's experience and take a peek and see if it's really all that?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I think my favorite thing about your book and you is that I felt so strongly the tension of yes, I want certain things. I want meaning. I want relationship. I want this relationship with this guy. I want a career. I want these things that culture can offer, but I will not abandon myself. It's so easy when you're different in any way to decide that success is full assimilation.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
That like success is I do whatever it takes to become What you will celebrate. But what I freaking loved about your story was that that was not enough. Like that's not what you were doing. You were like, I want these things. I will not abandon myself though. I don't want to be you. I want to be me.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I kept thinking of when you were dealing with David or dealing with your mom and I kept hearing the freaking, we have teenage girls, so I kept hearing the Taylor Swift line, I don't want to keep secrets just to keep you. Yes, yes, yes. Hearing that over and over again. So do you feel that tension? Like, do you think about that? Do you think about, I don't want to be you.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I want to be me and have all the things that I want.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Correct. Yes. Cosign. So that is an amazing message to people who are in relation to or thinking about sociopathy from the outside. What do you want to say? What do you want to leave us with for people who are listening who are on the spectrum. You call it a spectrum, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Tell us how you experienced this as a kid. Because I know what it's like to figure out what you are and suddenly things make sense. And then you feel really bad for your younger self who thought they were lost. Tell us how you experienced being a kid. Maybe tell us about the pencil incident. Just what was it like?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
I can feel nothing and survive. It's so good. Because it's like- Well, you wrote it. No, I did the opposite. I'm working towards hers. No, I know, I know. But it's the opposite side of the same coin. Yes. You know? Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
And similarly, like, I think so much about, like, when we're doing any work with queer communities or, and people are always bringing up, well, queer kids have such a higher rate of suicide. And there's like this jump of like, so it must be the queerness- That's making them depressed enough to da-da-da-da. And it's like, oh, oh, oh, oh. It's never the queerness that's the problem.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
It's the culture saying you shouldn't be that makes them so upset that they feel like they can't live on this earth. And for you, what I hear you saying is it's not the lack of feeling. It's the culture saying you should feel that makes it so excruciating. It's not the queerness. It's the homophobia. It's not the thing. It's the reaction to the thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Well, I know you wrote your book for sociopaths to find a place to land and And it is that I am sure, but it is also such a fascinating study of all of us. And it taught as someone who probably errs on the other side of the spectrum for better and for a lot worse. It's made me think every single day since I read it. So thank you for it.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Mm-hmm. You did it. So good. So good. Thank you. Thank you guys. Pod squad. We'll put a link to sociopath, the book everywhere. Just trust me. It's so good. Read it. Listen to it. Thank you. I hope you have a great day. I hope you guys do too. Thank you. Bye. Bye. See you next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
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We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz. I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Patrick, is the apathy, so is this feeling that you called apathy when you were little, but now you call tranquility or this feeling, is it a feeling? Is it an absence of feeling is my first question. And then the follow-up to that is this. One of the things we're always talking about on this pod is this quote that's like, the problem is the picture in your head of how it's supposed to be, okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
So my question, when I was reading your book, I kept thinking, okay, is the apathy the problem or is your belief that you shouldn't have the apathy? Like if a sociopath is born on an island with nobody around and no culture to tell that person how it should be, does the person just live comfortably with the apathy without the constant need to act out because the acting out is just,
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
cultures what told you what it should be.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
Right. Wow. And what is it like? I kept thinking as I was reading, there's just something so humongous about an entire culture telling you, if you tell the truth, we will understand you more. If you tell the truth, like that is something we all use as like a safety. I don't know what we're doing with that, but it's usually true.
We Can Do Hard Things
I’m a Sociopath: Patric Gagne’s Story
But what is it like to be a person who knows for certain that the more I tell you, the less you will approve of me? Usually the more someone tells me, oh, we understand you. But your truth is more isolating.