Interviewer
Appearances
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Was this after you went to prison? What was after when I went to prison? You had a million dollars in crypto? No, that was before. Well, I want to get into all that. Yeah, it's honestly a lot. Okay, well, this is good. I'm glad that your story is strange. Well, it's made for a movie.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
From breach exposures to info stealing malware infections, knowing what criminals know about you and your business is the first step to setting things right. Resetting stolen passwords and addressing the enterprise access points that have been stolen by malware helps you protect your business from ransomware, account takeovers, and online fraud.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
What the hell? This would be a strong no for me. I would be out. You can't attack the head of U.S.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So as a teenager, what was your relationship with the government? Were you politically active? Was your dad politically active?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Well, I mean, just a random phone call is not going to be that big of a deal. But did you say, I've also got access... It was his personal cell phone number.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So what happened to the police department? Now we got your motive. What did you do? Oh, well, we...
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Yeah, let's talk about that then. So how'd you get those several million?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So John Holdren, I have written down here that someone tried to swat him.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
And then saying there's a violent incident here and then them coming to his house.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
There was an undercurrent of people online at the time that you were mixed up in that was also very involved in this sort of thing. Talking about Anonymous, for example. Anonymous was always calling out injustices of the world and threatening this and that because people were just being evil. And it felt like being part of that was the winning side.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
Well, let's talk about that. So how do you think the, uh, How did they catch you?
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
What happened? Did they knock on the door? Tell me about that incident. No, dude. They definitely don't knock on the door.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
They pulled you out of that room and someone else went in there to start taking your computer. I mean, they can't unplug it and take it. They know they've got to collect it.
Darknet Diaries
139: D3f4ult
So I just want to get a verbal confirmation for... I don't know, legal reasons or whatever. It's okay to record this call to use on the podcast Darknet Diaries. Is that okay with you?
Darknet Diaries
138: The Mimics of Punjab
You got to probably appreciate your cousin for helping you out. If you get in jail, he's going to send you $1,200. Yes, exactly.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, Adam gets comments about that with his face. Like we get comments on our videos all the time where they're like, that brown guy looks real, but that other guy looks AI.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
It should be because AI people look perfect, you know, so I think you should take it as a compliment.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
You learn a lot about how stuff works.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, it starts to feel bad when you see all that stuff piling up in your closet.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, that transition is painful, but like you said, you can get to a better place on the other side. And I think there's a lot of technical details, but I think what it comes down to me is, you know, I sit at my desk and there's this thing sitting here and my whole life is coming through it. Like it's what helps me provide for my family. It connects me to the whole world, everything.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
And knowing how that thing works, like having deep customization of it and like feeling that harmony with it, like it's just good for your soul, like beyond any of the technical details. And kind of when you get there, it's hard to explain to other people, but you really feel a lot more connected with this really important thing that's, you know, sitting on your desk every day.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, I think beyond the fear that you described that people have, I actually think there's another dimension too. There's almost like a pride. I think there's like this narrow definition of productivity where they're like, if I have to learn something, That's not productive. And they kind of have this very narrow path of like, I'm someone that loves being productive. I'm all about business.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
That means I value these things. But a lot of this stuff, like you said, when you go and understand these underlying things, that does make you more productive in ways that are really hard to explain. You get advantages in other places. So yeah, I think for me, it's more like there's a weird pride with not knowing this stuff. I think that's like... hard to shake people up.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
But I think the reason we wanted to have you on here was you've been talking a lot more about Linux on the desktop, which I've been a lifelong Linux on desktop person. It's been like 12 years, I think, so far. But yeah, we just want to hear about... I guess, what got you into that? Is this a new thing for you? What's the story behind all this?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, the point about the tools working, like the cloud tools, like also all those things being retained, that's a good one. So I work on infrastructure as code stuff and all of our tooling was developed for deploying cloud services, right? So there's good ideas there, like declaratively defining config, like applying that. And we realized the other day,
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
we we can just point all the same stuff to like a docker daemon running on a machine and it all works exactly the same so all the great benefits that we kind of invented in the cloud uh you can just use that same model uh anywhere so yeah it's quite a different experience and i also posted the other day i was remembering
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
the first my first company i actually launched it off my laptop like it was i even kind of it was like a it was wi-fi it was like a wi-fi laptop right and this was like in 2010 uh eventually we moved that to servers in my parents basement like literally in my parents basement and we sold the company at that point and i remember like the first thing they did they were like yeah we need you guys to move that off of there it's probably not secure but i actually did build and sell a company that
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Love it. Yeah. It was dusty down there. Those servers are still there, too. I could probably still use them. But yeah, like, you know, I did build and sell a company that way. It's a lot better these days to do something like that, though.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I mean, that resonates a lot with me. The work that we do is... Some of these resellers you're talking about, sometimes they do come up with cool ways to deploy stuff or they come with stuff that we wouldn't have thought of. And what we do is we take it and we just make it open source so that people can use it wherever they need to. So...
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
There's like a it's a little antagonistic, but there's also like a like a harmony to it as well. Yeah, I think all capitalism, the idea of capitalism is there's no permanence. If you have permanence, it doesn't work. You need things to get destroyed. Yes. Occasionally. Yes. And you can't be a capitalist if you don't believe in that.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah. So the one thing I will say I kind of disagree a little bit is I think if you are going to use a cloud, if you're going to use one of the public clouds,
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
if you try to use it in a way where you're just trying to rent servers you're gonna have a horrible experience like it's way too expensive to do that if your approach is uh i'm renting servers i'm gonna run my own software just don't use the cloud at all just go to like you said that's stuff that you guys are using um go directly to data centers that offer renting the hardware directly you can have a much better experience
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
If you are going to use a cloud, you might as well, like, just commit to something, like, commit to using it properly. And then, yeah, you can use the services, high-level services. They're more expensive, but at least you get the benefit. I think it's this middle ground where you, like, try to use a cloud in this agnostic way. Like, that's just never going to work out at all.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
So whatever model clicks for you, like... If you like console servers, just go buy them directly. It's probably at least 10x cheaper, if not more.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I actually wouldn't count both of those because I guess what I'm talking. So those are like just shitty repackaging of RDS. Stuff that you can just run directly, right?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
where like that that's fixable yeah yeah so i i think where we can agree on is uh like i'm still gonna like i use the cloud heavily like clicks for me um but what i don't like is the people that are like quote unquote on that side don't know how to do the other thing so it's just like i can't really trust your opinion even though you're like on this side because
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
you're doing it out of not knowing the other side. Like I've always had a home lab that I managed, uh, would run whatever, like I would use to expand my old, like Kubernetes with nomad, like all the different orchestration stuff. Um, so I've seen how that stuff has progressed and I, I enjoy it.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Like I said, just like with my, with my desktop, it's, it's really good when you like curate, that's a garden almost, um, running all like all the services that power my family stuff. Um, So I have a sense of that. So when I choose stuff, when I'm choosing the cloud, I'm choosing it with like awareness of what I'm trading off and what I'm balancing.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
So I have a quick question for you. So this is a thought I had the other day because I feel a lot of the same things you're talking about where I'm like, people these days don't even know how to X. Yes, I am. And you remember when we were young, people would say that to us. So... Like, are we just doomed to repeat this? Is this actually going to change? Is it actually different this time?
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Sometimes these big data centers, there's only like there's only like two people that are there like on call. Yeah, it's not even like a whole team or anything.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
You guys have equal amounts of gray in your beard. I'm the one that's still all black.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
Yeah, I mean, it's just like your transition to Linux. It was painful. You didn't know that it could be better, but eventually you kind of got there.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
So one last thing I have to plug this because you mentioned you like to ease. You're like blown away by like how crazy to get. Have you seen what we've done with our coffee shop? I have not. So we built a coffee shop that's served entirely over SSH. So if you do SSH terminal dot shop, that's awesome. You get like a full coffee buying. You can literally buy coffee and it shows up at your house.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I don't drink coffee either, but I sell it.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
uh but it was fun because so i love it adam worked on a lot of the like the front end for it but it was cool because it's a very constrained ui you can't have like different font sizes you can only do like colors and stuff but the constraints kind of breed like a lot of cool stuff and build yeah constraints are the best there's like amazing tui tools that i've also been going deeper and i've built a
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
I love it. Yeah, it's wild. Like it's better UX than a lot of the more powerful, you know, environments that we have UI in.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
There we go. Everyone's going to be running their own servers and we're only going to be serving up 2Es over SSH. That's the future. Yeah. All right.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
It was funny. Appreciate it. All right.
How About Tomorrow?
DHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running Servers
And all the historical data you have. It's like impossible to switch. All the data was embedded with it.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington
Tell us a little bit about Nancy Ward, when she lived, what the state of the Cherokee Nation was doing during that time, and how she was seen amongst her contemporaries.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington
So she had ties with Daniel Boone? Oh, yes.
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington
She was connected with all these presidents and famous people. Well, how did she get that much stature?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Meeting Mother Teresa
Wow. It's one thing to know about it, but you're right. It's another thing to experience it. Yes. Yeah. Now you mentioned at the beginning that your parents didn't have life insurance, didn't have insurance. And this show is by no means even aware a life insurance company. Is it really pushing life insurance?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Meeting Mother Teresa
I've seen being in the business now, how having this protection has helped so many families and not burden the kids. number and the spouse when something happens. But what's been your experience with life insurance and what you've seen over the years with your employees and even the people that you serve?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Call From JFK / Riding Shotgun with an Oscar
Do you have any personal stories of your time with the Kennedys that really struck a chord with you?
Let's Talk Legacy
CLIP: Call From JFK / Riding Shotgun with an Oscar
Was there a time that there was a personal accomplishment that you did that made you feel like, yes, I honor my father. I was blessed to be in that situation. But you know what? I'm pretty proud of myself, too.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
What do you think? Like whatever donations you get. Okay.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So you started that institute at the end of 2017.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Well, we in Europe, we are used to be a bit behind. But if I can recall 2016, there was no discussion about AI in Europe at all. And so it's quite interesting to see that Obama has actually, you know, decided that it's finally time to do something about this topic nobody has ever really talked about.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
We're going to talk a lot about Europe today as well. But my question is, can you describe what kind of discussions were going on 10 years ago in American society that this has come up to be something of a topic for the near future, which actually became a big one. Where did this discussion take place?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
You just got the Nobel Prize in physics, interestingly enough.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Yeah, because there's no computer Nobel Prize.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I think deep learning was just the technology that perfectly served their current beliefs in that they have to work on the data, that they have to build up algorithms to somehow predict your personal future and be there with an ad before you even know it. And we've seen this everywhere.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
as an ad everywhere and we've also seen it in political influence as we've seen in the Brexit decision and also in the elections where we heard there's going to be one in the near future as well in the US that might be influenced as well let me check my calendar I mean I think we can like peel back also just this concept of like what is an advertisement right
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Before we dig more into the Signal project, which in itself I think is quite interesting, we'd like to understand how did you get there, where you are right now? So what was your introduction into this digital world? When did it start?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Was Google still running under the motto of don't be evil at the time?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
It was kind of the end of it, wasn't it?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And like for that matter much more than developers.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
energy and solidarity already at that point and then how many percent of the google employees would you say have at one point taken part in this i don't know we were really careful not to keep lists yeah i mean you can dream up a number now you know i i
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So did Google then still love you at that point?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I mean, it leads to an interesting point because I would say looking from the other side of the ocean, I think to us, this whole tech scene the startups, the new stuff, the internet, everything that has developed in the last 20 years or so always had this liberal touch to it. It felt as if it was mostly about an
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
open world loving agenda and it's good for everybody and google's kind of tuned in with their motto and some other companies did as well some not so much but it was always this this feeling that this is uh that the liberal thinking is at the core of everything that is driving the internet forward
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
and I think we stopped thinking that now because it looks totally different right now currently we have more the feeling that it's turned into a total right wing thing apocalypse apocalypse somehow and i haven't really seen this coming can you explain what happened to this tech scene what what happened i well you know i think about post 9-11 and a lot of the fights over surveillance and tech
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Logbuch Netzpolitik number 503 from October 16, 2024. And you will have noticed it. Wir sprechen eine andere Sprache. Wir sprechen eine andere Sprache heute, weil wir haben heute einen Gast und das ist dann ein Gespräch, was wir heute auf Englisch führen wollen.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I heard some other things, but I think one of the problems was that Twitter didn't see itself as a messaging platform, which was probably a mistake from their point of view.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I find it quite interesting how encryption as a topic has changed over time. It's just more or less 10 years ago that Facebook actually changed to HTTPS on their website by default. And So there was a time not so long ago, you know, where most of the data was flowing around on the internet, mostly unencrypted.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And that although there was these already mentioned crypto wars, you know, about general encryption, but it was also always for nerds and for specific applications. Then it also got this nice paint with this whole cryptocurrency thing
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
craze going uh on which made it somehow popular and almost took the word away we're so wrestling and uh yeah and it was also the rise of of of uh encrypted messaging that was really giving uh it's a new fuel so single was in the middle of all of this as we already heard So I'd like to focus on Signal for a moment as an organization that you now head.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
What's your understanding of what Signal is and what it's not and how the organization deals with it?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Well, there's still ICQ and AIM, I think, at the time.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Do people in the EU understand what you're talking about if you are offering these technical explanations why it's complicated? Because we have the impression that they don't really get it.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Which brings me to an interesting point because we are actually very interested in your view as an American, knowing how things work on that continent. What's your impression of how Europe deals with tech, these new technologies coming up and how it impacts society? Can you just give me a feeling for how this is to you? In a good way, in a bad way, whatever you feel, just to…
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
I'm just focusing on what you can probably match to Europe in general or at least to the kind of discussions you have on a political level when you face EU institutions.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Which five platforms would you... This is what's going to happen.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So you're not talking about these big tech... Okay, you're focusing on cloud, not so much on the social media aspect.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Back to the magical thinking of Europe.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
But apart from the magical thinking, is there anything else you would stick to in Europe?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Yeah, the GDPR is probably a German thing somehow in its core. For sure. So how does this affect the talk to European politicians and how do you see the trends in regulations and trying to apply new laws and regulations towards this whole tech industry?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So I read it as you think that the European positions might be slightly under-informed and probably not well thought out in the current situation? Yeah.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Let's stick to this topic because it's still an ongoing battle right now. We are more or less talking about this in every of our shows. And yeah, it's still totally unclear what's going to come out of this. How do you see this discussion evolve?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
But how do you deal with it? If you say the strength of your argument is not enough?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So basically the discussion is led by pointing the other side to the infeasibility of the approach.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Then they will say, but we have to do something.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
They might only have two people, but at some point in time, they might have doubled by adding another one.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Okay, leaving out Signal completely now, what do you think happened? Pavel Dorf was put into custody, he's now free on bail and Franz talked to him.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So does Signal get these requests too?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So Cigna as a company, how does it work? I mean... It's a non-profit. Yeah.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And how do you get your talent? How do you get people to work for Signal?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So the last place in tech where people are actually happy?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
That sounds like a quick upgrade from a customer support person to me. So you mentioned MLab, which stands for measurement lab.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
And you mean not only a model for other communication companies, but also a model for any kind of technology company?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
That's not what I meant. I mean, I understood you that you think that the... modus operandi of Signal as a company might be something that other companies could also leverage and do. It's not only limited to some much needed devices.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Can you explain what this is all about and how it came alive and why you were involved?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
It does, but it's not turned on by default now.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
What would you say is the dividing line right now between useful applications for machine learning, expert systems, AI stuff and the hype?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
In a computer science-y way. I mean, really like making applications possible that haven't been before that actually do useful stuff to people or society.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Yeah, you're going right into surveillance capitalism again. Yeah, no, well, that's my, I'm really good at making that turn. I'm looking for a rosy outlook into the future, like hope. Anything in store?
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
So for practical reasons, you had unlimited bandwidth and zero latency to everywhere.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
Old school ideological commitment. You don't sound like a book nerd now. You've become a real network nerd.
Logbuch:Netzpolitik
LNP504 The politics of intellectual shame
It's like a real... I read the fucking manual.
Search Engine
The End
Have you read it? about the explorers who went out here first, like in the 1880s and stuff?
Search Engine
The End
Right, which slightly incentivizes some of us in the world to just not do very much good.
Search Engine
The End
Have there been times, as a person who has gradually become more and more excited about cryptocurrency, are there moments you have where you just feel conflicted, like this sector is not great for the climate? Yes, constantly.
Search Engine
The End
It's like marble with a crack in it. You like see the section that's cut out like a slice of wedding cake.
Search Engine
The End
I feel like I'm going to spend this weekend talking to people that want to convince people like you to be more worried, basically.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Absolutely. So total shift of gears.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
What's next? As you look to the future, where do we go from here?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
I really don't say this lightly, but I think it's super inspiring to see the path you've paved. I mean, you're wise beyond your years.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
I really appreciate you being here. Thank you very much. Of course. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you all.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Okay, so I've got to put this in perspective. You're 12.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
That's a legit thing to like. When I was 12 years old, I was worried about making sure I had enough hairspray for my bangs, got braces in the seventh grade. Who liked who? Where did this come from? Just talk to me about that.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
When was your first like, hey, I'm on the cusp of making some major histories?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
And I think to your point, hardware available to the masses.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Here you are today, co-founder of your own social media music management firm. You are young.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Oh my gosh. Okay. So do you consider yourself more of an artist or more of a business person?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
So this whole genre of business is relatively new. I mean, what is it, 20 years old, maybe?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
So knowing now all the platforms that we have, what advice do you give to folks that say, hey, now, I mean, let's say it's been 20 years. I mean, now it's flooded. So how do you differentiate yourself if you were just now coming up into it?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
That's great counsel. So running your company, what are some of the business things that you wish you knew that you had to learn the hard way?
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Well, hey, I really appreciate you being here. Of course. So you obviously have such an incredible background, especially for being, and I'm just going to say it, so young. So I kind of want to start there. One of the things I read about your background is that when you were 12, you had 10,000 followers to a AOL account for the Backstreet Boys.
The Action Catalyst
Crowd Surfing, with Cassie Petrey (Social Media, Music, Marketing, Business)
Thank you, by the way, for the vulnerability of sharing that. Of course. One of the things I think you really hit the nail on the head with is the people side of the business. What are some of the resources that you've leaned on to help develop your leadership and management styles?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Well, and one of the things, I've heard you say this before, you say you don't learn how to be fascinating, you unlearn how to be boring.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Larry Wingate one time said, you know, the whole challenge of the speaking profession is to discover your uniqueness and exploit it in the service of others.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
So the new book is called How the World Sees You. And this thing is like, it is awesome.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Such an exciting show for you today. Sally Hogshead is a Hall of Fame speaker and her first book was called Fascinate, Your Seven Triggers to Persuasion and Captivation. And she is an expert in branding, in personal branding, and particularly the world's leading expert on fascination. And she's made a few minutes to be with us here. Sally, thank you for joining us.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Sally, this is awesome. I mean, it's fascinating. I mean, to use your term. So, Sally, you are just you are amazing.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Fascination, Persuasion and Captivation, with Sally Hogshead (Author, Speaker, Advertising, Success)
Can you just give us like a quick rundown of what Fascinate is?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Find a Problem and Own It
Thank you, by the way, for the vulnerability of sharing that. Of course.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Find a Problem and Own It
That's great counsel. So running your company, what are some of the business things that you wish you knew that you had to learn the hard way?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
OK, second part of that. How do you answer a question that you don't have an answer for?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Winning "The Apprentice" / "The Mega-Brands That Built America"
You were the winner of season one of The Apprentice, which maybe people don't remember was an absolute phenomenon when it was on the air. What was it like to suddenly be in the public eye and what are some of the habits and practices that set you apart from your peers and competitors and ultimately helped you win?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Winning "The Apprentice" / "The Mega-Brands That Built America"
Well, continuing that long television career, you're now featured on the mega brands that built America airing on the History Channel, which is really entertaining. Look into the early innovations in some of the biggest businesses of our time. Do you have a favorite episode or one that surprised you the most?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
More recently through COVID and in these last few years, what are some lessons that you've taken back and thought about the work that you wrote in Redefining Possible and new applications, new inspirations that you've had?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
I always get in a place where I question whether I'll still think what I'm putting down is important. You now have this perspective, I guess, coming back and adding some highlights to the book. When you wrote it, I guess, how did you know that this was going to be something that you'd read again five years later and go, oh, yes, I still believe these things. It's still important to me.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
A hundred percent. Yeah. I love that. Who did you write this book for? Who are the people that are going to pick this up, read it and go, gosh, that's exactly what I needed.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Mastering Impact, Focus, Vision, Belief, Truth, and Time
Of some of the principles that you bring up, redefining possible, what's another one, I guess, that you're really have been focused on here over the last year or two?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Progress Over Perfection
What feedback or advice would you give a young version of yourself? Like a 21-year-old Luis that's coming out. What do you think that 21-year-old version of you would need to hear from yourself today?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Progress Over Perfection
I'm always intrigued by companies that are able to create that culture.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Progress Over Perfection
You know, a lot of folks will, you know, ask, where do I build my community?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2193 - Jack Symes
We've got to put our headphones on and hear it. All right. Trump on gay rights. You mentioned the Bible. You've been talking about how it's your favorite book. And you said, I think last night in Iowa, some people are surprised that you say that. I'm wondering what one or two of your most favorite Bible verses are and why.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2193 - Jack Symes
There's no verse that means a lot to you that you think about or cite?