Jordan Harbinger
Appearances
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
How capable are these guys? Because whenever I see photos of guys like this, The comments are always like, oh, meal team six is in action or like here are the gravy seals. Because it's always a guy who looks like he probably wouldn't make it three blocks walking with all the crap he's got Velcroed to himself. And he's got like Velcro extenders to go over his fat belly so the plate carrier fits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Is that what we're dealing with or are these guys in good shape training?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, that's quite scary. I want to back up a little bit. You mentioned that some of the white supremacist gangs have biblical rationalizations for what they're doing. Can we get a brief overview of that? Because I think it's kind of interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
So the KKK still exists, right? Oh, yeah. This guy, Daryl Davis, who's been on the show, I don't know if you know him. He's essentially talked a bunch of these guys over years and talks them out of the KKK and he keeps their robes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, amazing guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Surprise, surprise, I guess, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I mean, it's amazing to me they still exist. I can only assume it's just a bunch of people whose lives haven't worked out the way they wanted it to. And they're like, oh, blaming brown people? That's easier than looking at all the mistakes I've made. Where do I sign up for this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
That's kind of the impression I get of a lot of these people, especially the interviews with the guys that Daryl's talked to. They just grew up as ignorant as possible with terrible parents. They're not the cream of the crop. And they also say things like they're not white supremacists. They're separatists. Do you know what the difference? What does that mean?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Even then, what does that mean? Like you're German and Slavic. OK, the Nazis thought the Slavs were below. So it's like, where do you draw the imaginary line to put yourself above these people? I found it interesting that a lot of these white supremacist gangs will pimp out white women to non-whites. And it's like, how's that jive with your whole no race mixing thing?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And it's like, well, we need the money.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, part two with Scott Payne.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Let me guess, the serpent's a black dude.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Those are two things. Okay, I didn't know those were two separate things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
We had so much to talk about before. He's a retired FBI undercover. He's been with biker gangs, helped take down a bunch of these outlaw biker gangs, one percenters.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Here it is from the ADL is a reference to the most popular white supremacist slogan in the world. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children. That's the phrase. And that is essentially yada yada. The whole world is controlled by Jews. Just in case anybody was confused. Yeah, okay. So that's where the 1488 thing comes from, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
This week, we're talking about how he, well, kind of accidentally joined the Ku Klux Klan, white nationalist violence, something called accelerationists, which are guys who just kind of want to see the whole world burn so they can start a white supremacist or white separatist ethnostate in the United States of America. These people are real, folks. Absolutely nuts. By the way, this episode...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
The eighth letter of the alphabet is H, and that's... So 88 is HH, which is Heil Hitler. So 1488 is a white supremacist code number. I forget the name.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
From some donkey banging party.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
More of a goat killing party. Okay. Okay. You went to a KKK meeting, and I was surprised to learn that they don't burn crosses, they light crosses, and that's apparently a difference that you need to know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Okay, I was going to say clud. Never heard that word. All right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Very clever. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we could put that one together. Like, oh, okay, the metaphor is really literal in this particular instance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Oh, I see. Interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
The KKK stuff, it really sounded all so stupid in Mickey Mouse, right? It was like, nobody say anything and be quiet. And then 10 minutes later, if anybody needs to speak up now, you're like, but you told us to be quiet. Oh, yeah. Forget about that. Forget about that. Don't move. But raise your hand if you you just told us not to move and not to talk. OK, forget about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
It would be funny if it weren't sinister domestic terrorism and violent racism, basically.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I guess the good news is they're so disorganized. They're not unified at all that it's hard to come up with sort of a big overarching plan for everything because it's a bunch of punks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And especially this part right here in the beginning starts off graphic. No kids in the car for this one, for sure. Man, I appreciate you coming back. Last time we talked to you, we talked about some of the ups and downs of undercover and going into the outlaws biker gang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, I think that's just one of those every accusation is a confession, right? They have so much shame around it that they're like, ah, I can balance this out by being the most anti, most racist, homophobic, whatever, and then it all balances out. And then if anybody ever catches me with it or there's ever any rumors, they'll be like, oh, that guy? No, it can't be.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
He's a grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan with a K. I didn't know that guy was black.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, that wasn't me. That would be very anti all the things that I clearly believe, as per my Facebook profile. I was undercover. Yeah, I just wanted to see how they operate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Anything for the cause. It's crazy stuff. And now for a word from our sponsor, Al-Qaeda. That doesn't sound right. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by EveryPlate. Every plate delivers delicious restaurant-quality meals like crispy chicken Milanese or roasted garlic Dijon butter steak right to your door for less than you'd spend on groceries.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you so much for watching. What I like about Up First is the tone. The hosts know their stuff. They're not trying to scare the crap out of you. There's no real agenda being pushed. I caught the episode the other day on breaking down the latest with the economy and some election updates. It's just easily digestible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
But the next level up in craziness is some of these, I don't even know if you still call them gangs are almost like cults with some of the weird stuff that that they were doing. Can you outline some of this? Because I rarely don't know where to begin, but the book has a man having sex with a donkey, and the donkey bit his fingers off. It's just like, okay, is that where we open the show?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
They gave me just enough to know what's going on, so they hit the sweet spot, in my opinion. It's national and international, fact-based but still conversational, and a great thing to add to my morning routine while I'm fixing my coffee. So if you're over the news but you still want to actually know what's happening, check out Up First. Short, smart, and actually useful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Listen now to the Up First podcast from NPR. If you're wondering how I know all these great authors, thinkers, and creators, it's because of my network. I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. I know networking is kind of gross, but hey, undercover folks like Scott Payne, this is their bread and butter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
These relationship building skills, inspiring other people to want to develop relationships with you, get them to trust you. In a non-cringe, very down-to-earth way, nothing awkward, nothing cheesy, nothing unethical, just practical exercises that'll make you a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend, a better peer at work. Six minutes a day is all it takes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And hey, many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. I have taught this course to three-letter agencies all over the U.S. and abroad. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart and somewhat dangerous company where you belong. You can find the course for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. All right, back to Scott Payne. in this meeting though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And like, did you accidentally join the clan through going through that whole rigmarole?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And I think that might be where we open the show. It's just, there was a guy banging a donkey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah. My church group is going to read this particular book. page of this book. You're undercover with some of these gangs, and we'll get into what these are, but no disrespect for people who are upstanding citizens of these particular areas of the country, but this is real, like, can you say redneck country?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
At the point where somebody's having sex with a donkey at a party, I think we are all on the same page here, right? That's a little... Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Pill sick. The guy was pill sick, meaning he like hadn't had a dose of Oxycontin in enough time and he was suffering through withdrawal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Man. And it works on damaged people. You've got some depictions of some pretty crazy folks. Tammy, the torturer. This is a person. She just had screws loose in every part of her psyche. You think?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Two specific people, I assume, not just two random. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, Tammy, did you think of that one yourself? That's a little disturbing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I guess he'd been up that long. I guess that's lucky that he didn't wake up from that. But I bet when he woke up, he was very unhappy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And the first thing you do is you try to get up. So that's how you wake up is you try to roll over like, I need some water. Holy moly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Good luck finding the phone. It's 20 feet away, buddy. Dang on a string in front of you. I'm sorry, honey. People will do anything but get a marriage therapist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
She's tweaking. Meth head. Somebody like that, I do not want to know what their childhood is like. This is a person who is terrible, but obviously they were not born that way. She is the product of abuse that is unspeakable, I'm sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Oh, yeah, I bet you have, Tammy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, but not as unlucky as her ex-boyfriends have been in love. Those guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah. Okay. I don't want to know what your upbringing was like. She must make a mean macaroni casserole if you're putting up with that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
That's probably true. From the stories I heard, I kind of am too. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My God, that's crazy. So I found it interesting. You mentioned this early in the book. De-escalation is your best weapon. Even as a big guy, right? As a dude who can handle himself, you say multiple times. I found that quite interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
And now a word from our sponsors, almost none of which are Nazi terrorist militias. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. As Anthony Bourdain once said, travel isn't always pretty. It's not always comfortable, but that's okay. The journey changes you. It should change you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Whether you're saving for your dream getaway or you're just looking for financial flexibility, Airbnb makes it easy to turn your space into extra income. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in one place, homes.com. We've done your homework. This episode is also sponsored in part by Progressive. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? You shift a little money here, a little bit over there. You just hope it all works out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Not available in all states. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. They're the ones who make the show possible. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Got our AI chat bot that should also help you surface codes. And hey, if you can't find it, you're not sure it exists, email me. I am more than happy to surface any code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Scott Payne.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I think a lot of people assume, oh, if you're this big, tough dude, the best thing you can do is just show how tough you are all the time. But it does make sense to deescalate, especially if you're trying to build trust with people. You're trying to show, hey, look, I'm smart enough to let cooler heads prevail because we're all on the same team here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
We're trying to do business, not just break bottles over each other's heads or whatever it is. One observation I noticed towards the end of the book is the irony of a lot of these accelerationist gangs, white supremacist gangs, is that they are in many ways the biggest bunch of seemingly dumbass, inbred loser drug addicts. Not all of them, but a lot of them that you described.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
It was. It all came out at once. But the point I'm trying to make is if actual Nazis took over the government like these guys want, they would be the first ones to get exterminated because they are total waste to society. They don't have any skills. They're not smart. They have all these hangups and weaknesses.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
They would be the first ones to get euthanized under an actual sort of pseudo neo-Nazi government.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I can understand that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I can get behind that because otherwise it gets glorified.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I'm not saying these people aren't dangerous. I think they are especially dangerous. I just mean that if they ever got what they wanted, they would be down the drain first thing. This would be the first wave of people you get rid of is these...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Exactly. You're one guy or two guys with a rifle. I'm going to bring 20 guys and tell them you got all this stuff in your house. Yeah. Well, you're not going to take us all out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Most of them become software engineers or some kind of genius level thing. They don't become Nazi or white separatist, whatever Christian identity.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, I've had a few of those guys on the show. Christian Picciolini, maybe you know him, former skinhead. He's been on the show. And I had Eamon Dean on who was like, memorized the Koran, went to Bosnia to fight the infidels. And then he just witnessed all these guys he thought were good Muslims chainsawing someone's head off who was just essentially...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
in the army and he's like this is corrupting all these nice people and he eventually went undercover did incredible work and is now speaking out on the right side that's a courageous move some of these guys are making to come out of that and then go on the other side it's really impressive honestly because you have to admit that you were wrong in public for a long time and it becomes part of your identity and then you have to help other people in the way that you are helped it's really a gutsy thing we'll link to those episodes in the show notes
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I know we're running out of time. Can you go out in public with your family? Because it seems like somebody could spot you. Or do you just live so far away from all these areas where you used to operate?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Wow. That must be a hell of a moment for some of these guys, because they don't suspect you initially. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in the place where they are if they suspected you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, that's why you just sold me an RPG, because you knew it. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, just because you knew. I don't get political on the show, so I'm curious if we can handle this in a nonpolitical way. But what do you think about all the cuts at FBI, ATF, these organizations right now? I'm worried we're going to end up with super strong organized crime groups or a terrorist attack because we're getting rid of all these qualified people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
That's an interesting perspective.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
What happened with those people? I'm not in the loop on that. That was the Russia hoax and all that stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I see. So that was selective release of information.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
The math doesn't work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
No, you don't. That's why I asked that question at the end, because I was curious what your actual opinion was. And you did not disappoint. What keeps you up at night? Former FBI could be in any sort of subject matter. I don't care. What keeps you up at night? What are you worried about right now when it comes to this country or the FBI in general? That's a good question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I should do this for a living.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Battling evil, yeah. There's a lot of stuff you could be worried about, but like you said, glass half full. That's probably the only way you stay sane in your line of work, though, glass half full. Otherwise, the whole world just looks like a pretty horrific place full of accelerationists and dudes missing fingers from their donkey party and all that kind of stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I mean, that would make you go nuts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Who knows, man? But you're right. You've got to have that glass half full kind of mentality. Otherwise, your whole world is like that. And then what's the point of saving it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
So far, so good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
I can accept that, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah. Oh, yeah. We have that in common, too. Tell us about the goat sacrifice. How do you even end up in a situation where they're sacrificing a goat, first of all, asking for a friend?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Oh, geez. So this is someone's livestock or pet goat or whatever? Oh, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Jeez, are they just sitting in a van? Are they pretending to camp nearby or something like that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
As one does, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Yeah, donkey style.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
By the way, this episode, and especially this part right here in the beginning, starts off graphic. No kids in the car for this one, for sure. Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Oh, God. That's how you get your fingers bit off, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Time to go to Tampa.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Go get some mittens for the dog and continue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
That's right. Stay away. Exactly. Man, that is just... How high do you have to be to engage in something like that? There's not enough cocaine in California to make most of us probably want to do that kind of thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
This is where they film that kind of stuff, and then as you take your hard drive out and throw it into a river, yeah, that's exactly where they film that stuff. Jace, we're going to have to mark this as explicit on Apple Podcasts and any platform that doesn't take kindly to all of the things that have happened in the first 10 minutes of this show. You can just bleep it out. It's too good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
It's too good. All right, so these white supremacist gangs... Tell me about these, because when you start infiltrating these groups, they're a whole different animal, right? This isn't like bikers moving guns and meth. They've got a weird and totally different ideology.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
This is like the, I'm not a criminal anymore because I have glasses on now. Okay, pal, we see through the disguise. You have a tie on. You're still a scumbag.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. Former jihadi, drug trafficker, rocket scientist, or Emmy-nominated comedian. And hey, if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. It's a great place to begin.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
They call themselves the base. Isn't Al-Qaeda in Arabic the base? So is that a coincidence?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1132: Scott Payne | Infiltrating America's Extremist Underworld
Wow. Where do they get it? I remember back in the day I had to buy a bulletproof vest for work. I just had Gulls, which is a police catalog, and they had these Safariland vests or whatever, and then they had generic ones, which I got because it was like $100 cheaper. So are they getting these plates and plate carriers just straight out of these police catalogs?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Da ist ein Kaffeeshop und ich bin da rein, um den Kofferraum zu nutzen oder so. Zuerst mal, der Ort ist schrecklich und die Leute, die rein und raus kommen, ihre Augen sind immer blutgeschossen. Sie sind immer ethnisch Vietnamesisch. Es ist nicht wie einer dieser Orte, wo trendige Leute reinkommen und Vietnamesische Kaffee trinken. Es sind immer mittlerjährige Jungs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
They go in and they come out, their eyes are bloodshot. They're just crazy looking, tired. They'll come out at all hours, any hours. And I'm like, what is this place? This is not just a coffee shop. There's either a brothel in the back or there's a casino in the back. Trying to get the bloodshot eyes. Maybe a lot of smoke, maybe? I don't know. Yeah. Or they stayed up all night doing something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Das bedeutet nicht, dass sie etwas falsch tun, aber es scheint ein bisschen schräg zu sein. Ich sage, meine Frau ist Asiener, sie ist Taiwaner, China. Sie hat gesagt, was Sie wahrscheinlich nicht sagen sollten, dass Asiaten Gambling lieben. Viele Leute lieben Gambling, aber Asiaten aus Asien lieben Gambling. Und ich glaube nicht, dass das rassistisch ist oder so etwas.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich glaube, das ist nur eine kulturelle Sache. Aber es ist illegal in Kalifornien. Also gibt es alle Art und Weise, wie Leute es tun, die entweder illegal und schrecklich sind oder völlig gut sind. Wie mein Vater-in-Law hat Mahjong-Games in seinem Haus, aber niemand handelt Geld. Es ist nur für Spaß und es sind alle seine Freunde. Ja, besonders wenn sie es überbringen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Honestly, if it's gambling, I personally don't really care. It's just when it gets to be like dicier than that, it starts to make the neighborhood a little less safe. That's the only time I take issue with stuff like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Und dann, was machst du mit den Prozeden? Nun, wir müssen das Geld durch den Nudel-Store auslösen. Ich sage nicht, dass es okay ist und legal sein sollte. Ich sage nur, ja, richtig, es ist ein dreckiger Slope. Das ist 100 Prozent wahr. Für den Lohnabschluss, ja. Du musst diese weiße Linie haben, Mann. Boom. Das ist richtig. Das macht Sinn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Es gibt ein lustiges Visual im Buch, wo diese beiden Jungs in der Kaffeeshop, wo du gehst, dich für Untercover-Arbeit befestigen. Das ist ein lustiges Visual, das ich hoffe, es in irgendeine Netflix-Serie macht, oder wo auch immer du endest. Nimm uns durch. Ich dachte, das wäre lustig.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. You know, I've said that so many times introducing the show that I wonder how many of you out there
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Das stimmt. Ja, ich glaube, wenn du Kokain verkaufst, hilft es, wenn es so aussieht, als hättest du dich geträumt, während du ein wenig Kokain trinkst, richtig? Nicht sehr ungekämpft, aber auch ein wenig, wie, überwiegend zusammengelegt, vielleicht, oder wie ein wenig futuristische Oakleys, nicht Cop Oakleys, die futuristischen, die niemand kauft. Du fragst dich, wie sie diese Dinge verkaufen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Das ist eine Linie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich habe blaue Jeans und T-Shirts, Mann. Das ist fast alles, was ich habe. Ich weiß nicht, was du mir helfen willst. Es hat wahrscheinlich alle ihre Willkür genommen, zu sagen, unser Coke-Händler trägt so etwas. Hier ist ein Fotograf von ihm. Vielleicht sollten wir das nicht tun. Vielleicht sind sie die Coke-Händler. Wer weiß. Das ist wirklich lustig.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Sie sind so, wir werden ihn niemals verletzen, weil wir ihn einen Meilen weg sehen werden. Wir sind diejenigen, die ihn trägt. Smart. Smart Counterintelligence.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Oh man. Again, if something is off, you just don't look the part. It's not going to work, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, I'm curious about that. I want to get through the FBI application process a little bit first, though, because I have to admit, I'm a little surprised you got hired in law enforcement, especially the FBI, with all the stuff that you did before that. Because I got buddies who I went to law school with, and they were basically told, you've smoked weed a few too many times to join the FBI.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
And these are like... Sie haben gesagt, 15, wie ich in dem Buch gesagt habe. Ich habe nicht verliebt. Und wiederum, ich sage den Leuten, die mich in meiner Behördenlehre verliebt haben,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, I know which one I would pick. Yours sounds fun, but I'm also like, well, you know, expensing this five-star dinner in a hotel room sounds a little bit more comfortable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, it seems like some of these guys think, I'll never go to jail, I'll never get caught, I'm too smart for this, I went to a private school. Those are the people that seem like they're probably likely to have a crazy meltdown in the moment, because they've never been tested before.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I guess for me it was a little mystifying how the FBI wants, in theory, the agents to be able to think like criminals, but then they also have to be squeaky clean Boy Scouts who've never smoked weed or only smoked weed a certain number of times. I would have never gotten hired.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Really interesting, of course, as these guys always, always are. Going undercover, close calls, how he may have been born for this and how he made it through the FBI Academy despite his unusual appearance and history. He's a really smart, really sharp undercover agent. This book was fascinating. I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich dachte nicht daran. Ja, ich glaube, das macht einen Sinn. Du machst all diese Drogenkaufs, wie du gesagt hast, Hookers, Kokain. Ist es dann seltsam, deiner christlichen Frau zu sagen, As a Christian, hey, I spent the evening buying cookers and cocaine. What did you do, honey? And she's like, I crocheted this blanket or whatever. I moved furniture because I was worried about you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ja. Das bedeutet nicht, dass es jetzt einfach ist. Erzähl mir über die Outlaws. Wir hatten vorher Undercover-ATF-Agenten und solche Dinge auf dem Show, die mit den Hells Angels untergegangen sind. Wir hatten einen anderen Mann, der mit, ich will nicht sagen, was haben sie genannt? Sind das die Pagans? Could be the Pagans of the Mongols. Pagans, that was also ATF.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
So the Outlaws, are they also a name brand like those two motorcycle gangs?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
And while you're holding a bladder full of pee on a surveillance operation, that's the perfect time to support the amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back. Vielen Dank. Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
So if you've ever struggled with putting together a cheap flimsy bed frame or worse, you moved and you had to break one down, you're gonna wish you had a Thuma. It's time to upgrade your space and create an oasis with Thuma.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Here we go with Scott Payne, which, by the way, definitely sounds like a fake name that an undercover agent would actually use. I read the book, I really enjoyed it, but then I was like, oh, what does this guy look like? Did you look like the world's hairiest skinhead when you joined the FBI or do you pick up like the Beth Cook biker chic thing after you get an assignment?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Das ist der Grund, warum Jen und ich EveryPlate lieben. Es macht es sehr einfach, besser zu essen, mit leckeren Rezepten des Chefdesigners und frischen, vorgebogenen Zutaten, die eigentlich weniger kostet, als wenn man Geräte kauft. Und jetzt ist jeder so, oh, ich bezahle einfach zu viel für alles. Nein. Ich liebe auch die Flexibilität.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Es gibt viele Möglichkeiten, egal ob du in deinem Ernährungsstil bist, egal ob du vegan bist, dich auf deine Carbs beobachtest, oder du bist wie ich und willst nur extra Protein. EveryPlate hat Smart Swap Rezepte. Sie lassen dich deine Zutaten customisieren.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Du kannst Tortillas für Lettuce Wraps, normale Pommes für Süßpotatoes, Fleisch für extra Veggies, kleine Tweets, das macht eine große Unterschiede, wenn du auf einer Art Diät bist. And the convenience is unmatched. No more wasted produce rotting in the fridge because every plate sends exactly what you need. It's an easy way to cook at home, eat healthier and save money while you're at it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
You've heard Scott on this episode talk about the value of relationships. I'm teaching you how to build and improve your relationships and scale them for free in our course over at 6minutenetworking.com. This is a course about improving your relationship building skills, inspiring other people to develop strong relationships with you. I know what you're thinking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
I'm already good at this or this sounds cringy. It is decidedly not cringy. I've taught this to law enforcement agencies. Now, back to Scott Payne. How do you approach a gang like that? You mentioned in the book that you had this vehicle theft power tool thing going on. Can you tell us about that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, not a very popular guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
It didn't matter. They're like, we're not listening. We know what you Marines want. Here you go. The number one. Yep. That's funny that you have mustache regulations. I mean, look, it makes sense that you do have that. But it explains why there's essentially a police officer mustache. Yeah, for sure. Ja, das erste Mal, als ich an einer Raid-Party war, weiß ich nicht, was es war.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich sehe. Also, hey, komm zu unserem Barbecue, wo wir andere Leute lassen, um uns herumzuhängen. Yeah, you buy raffle tickets and you can win a raffle and whatever. Sort of weird to think about, but I guess they do legitimate club stuff and then they do all their criming on the side, I guess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Isn't that the point? I've asked this before, but tell us what 1%er means, because I thought that was the point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, that's right. So the guys essentially co-opted the one percenter term, slapped the one percenter label on themselves, which is, yeah, we're not the ones out there just riding motorcycles. We're the ones that are breaking the law. The badasses.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
What's interesting about these guys is you started some pretty clever, I don't even know what you'd call it, like a fake side hustle, where you say, hey, I'm moving cars. And the guys, hey, I thought you had drugs or guns in this truck, but all I see is power tools. And you're like, exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
So you're kind of implying, maybe I'm drug trafficking, maybe I'm weapons trafficking, but I'm not necessarily saying that. And getting these guys to talk to you or ask you about doing more serious crimes, it didn't seem like they needed a whole lot of prodding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
I don't know. Ja, ich glaube, das ist der Punkt deiner Investition, um herauszufinden, wenn Leute Drogen verkaufen wollen, wie man sie nicht zufällig helfen kann, Drogen an amerikanische Menschen zu verkaufen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Weil du ihnen Drogen verkaufst, oder vielleicht sind es falsche Drogen, oder vielleicht willst du ein bisschen verkaufen, um viel zu erreichen, aber wie kannst du zufällig nicht ziemlich ernsthafte Krimine verursachen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Das ist wie einen schlechten Mann eine Waffe zu geben. Wow. Es ist wie Fast and Furious, den ich in einem vorherigen Show gesprochen habe. Du gibst ein paar Menschen Waffen und dann, ups, schießen sie Border-Control-Agenten mit diesen gleichen Waffen. Ups. Ja. Wir versuchen, herauszufinden, wer die Pipeline ist. Could be you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
We get it from this undercover FBI guy. He thinks he's playing us, but man, he's got the best shit in town. That would be a major issue. You do not want to hear that on the witness stand when you're in court trying to prosecute. Where'd you get it? Oh, we got it all from the FBI. And you knew they were FBI? Yeah, but they had great stuff that they'd seen in the cartel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Eine Sache, die ich interessant und einzigartig fand, war das Stollen-Zigaretten-Business. Und das war für mich ein großer Flashback, denn als ich in Detroit arbeitete, als ich ein Teenager war, wurde ich als Armguard in Zigaretten-Trucks eingeladen, denn sie wurden ständig verhaftet. Und ich wusste nicht, warum.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich dachte, sie handelten von Geld, aber es ist so, dass sie etwa 100.000 Dollar von Zigaretten oder mehr in der Rückseite des Trucks tragen. Und dann gehen sie nach 7-Eleven, und dann gehen sie nach dem anderen, und dann gehen sie nach dem anderen, und dann gehen sie nach dem anderen, und dann machen sie das den ganzen Morgen, bevor das Gebäude wirklich öffnet, bis es 24 Stunden dauert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Und dann verkaufen sie die Zigaretten. Und wenn jemand den Truck steuert, ist es viel einfacher, als einen Bank zu robben, und es ist mehr günstig, weil es einen Fahrer gibt, der sagt, das sind nicht meine Zigaretten, und er geht einfach nach Hause, und du nimmst den Truck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, I was there asking 18-year-old kids if they had pills dressed in a kangaroo suit. Ich weiß, du bist ein Undercover-FBI-Agent, natürlich. Aber eine Sache, die ich nicht völlig verstehe, und ich glaube, ich sollte es sagen, die Antwort ist wahrscheinlich nur irgendwo zwischen der Unkompetenz von diesen Leuten, die wir haben.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich würde diesen Baby runternehmen. Ich bette, ich bin gespannt, wie der Anruf stattfand, aber ich bin auch... Du hast in deinem Buch erwähnt, dass deine Aufmerksamkeit auf die Opioid-Entzündung und die Ärzte, die sozusagen Verschiebungen für Menschen geschrieben haben, aber sie wollten nicht, dass Leute in den Parkzimmer dringen wollten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Erzähl mir über dieses ganze Racket, das sie hatten, mit den Vans, die Addukte in die Klinik nehmen. Das war schockierend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Aber wenn ich an Partys gehe, sagen wir in San Francisco oder in einer anderen Stadt, ist es außergewöhnlich, wer die Undercover-Polizei sind, weil sie zu alt sind, um dort zu sein. Und sie tragen ein Kostüm, das ist wie eine Sache, die man auf Amazon kauft. Es ist nicht, es gibt kein Gedanke darauf, oder so etwas. Und sie sind auch nicht regelmäßig gekleidet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Jeez, that's so tragic and gross. But, oh man, what a mess. And the doctors, of course, are just, they're getting paid, so they don't care. It's part of the racket.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Und sie sagen niemals, hey Mann, dieser DJ ist großartig, lass uns ein bisschen reden. Hey, hast du irgendwelche Pillen? Sie gehen einfach hoch und sagen, hey Mann, hast du irgendwelche Pillen? Und es ist so, du bist so offensichtlich ein Polizist. Und zu Beginn dachte ich, vielleicht ist es nur ein Typ, der wirklich Pillen will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Wow, ja, das ist enorm. Diese Opioid-Sachen, die Größe ist einfach verrückt. Du hast Dirty Nurse erwähnt. Wir sind beide genug alt, um zu erinnern, als Dirty Nurse einfach nur ein tolles Halloween-Kostüm war. Jetzt ist es eine kriminelle Aktivität. Legit. Und es sah nicht so gut aus wie der Outfit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
I'm sure there's a discrepancy between the East Tennessee Dirty Nurse and the Halloween 90s Dirty Nurse. When do cover teams have to step in to an operation? If you get into a bar fight or something like that, that's one thing. But how do they assess what level of danger there is in an operation? You don't want somebody to come get you because somebody is...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
schießen, aber du willst, dass jemand kommt, um dich zu holen, wenn sie dir sagen, oh, es gibt Jungs auf dem Ruf mit Waffen, die an unseren Mann geahnt sind, und sie werden ihn töten. Und wir haben auf dem Radio geredet, aber es muss ein Mittelland sein, wo es ist, okay, das sieht gefährlich aus, aber wir sind nicht sicher, wie gefährlich es ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Und dann sehe ich immer, dass sie jemanden aus der Rückseite verabschieden. Und ich bin so, ein Junge ist dafür gegangen. Aber wenn du einen echten Dealern willst und nicht nur den trankesten Jungen, der einen extra Pillen in seinem Koffer hat, musst du ein bisschen schwieriger versuchen. Wie kann es sein, dass sie das nicht machen können? Es kann nicht so schwer sein.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
I was wondering if you had a code word. Pineapple, pineapple, pineapple.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ja, Schattenboxen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Selbst dann war ich so 270 cm. Ja, das ist das andere. Wenn du einen wirklich dünnen Mann hast, der in die Akademie kommt, dann denkst du dir, okay, du wirst unser Krack-Head im Hintergrund sein, weil du 140 Kilo wäschig und sechs Fuß groß bist. Aber wenn jemand 270 cm ist, hey Mann, kann ich ein bisschen Krack machen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Du, Sir, hast das definitiv nicht mehr als einmal gemacht, weil du sehr robust bist. What if I was getting it for the hooker I have back at the motel? That's fine. Yeah, I guess that's the way out. Hell no, I ain't using it with this girl. Yeah, she does this. This isn't going to make her pass out, is it? Oh man, no, you're coming to the right guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Most people don't forget their middle name under normal circumstances or any circumstances.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
We all know that from Breaking Bad, right? Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ja. Ja. No kidding. Wow, that was scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, you'd have to come up with a one-liner backstory. Speaking of who trains you, you do know some legends, man. Jack Garcia, that was episode 392 of this show. Joe Pistone, aka Donnie Brasco. Is he still around? He's like 85 probably. Let's see, it's February now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
And I'm like, yeah, well, if I'd have seen plastic. And he starts laughing. You know what's better than being stripped naked and having your head blown off in a root cellar? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. Das war's für heute. Bis zum nächsten Mal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Bis zum nächsten Mal. If you're ready to embrace the impossible, the Defender is your perfect partner. Be uncapable and ready to go wherever you're headed next. Build your Defender at LandRoverUSA.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Es lässt dich einfach mit all den Agenten in der Gegend, die du suchst, verbinden, damit du den richtigen Agenten findest mit der richtigen Erfahrung und letztendlich das richtige Zuhause für dich. Homes.com. Wir haben dein Zuhause gemacht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Wenn dir dieses Episode des Shows gefallen hat, bitte tun, was andere smarte und besonderere Zuhörer tun, nämlich einen Moment zu nehmen und die tollen Sponsoren zu unterstützen, die dieses Show möglich machen. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com. Our AI chatbot also on the website can surface them for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
And if you can't find it or the AI can't find it or you're not even sure if it exists, email me. I'm happy to surface that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. And now, back to Scott Payne.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, man, he'd be an interesting guy. I wonder if he even does media or if he's just like over it at this point. He's more of an introverted guy, but he does stuff. He still pitches shows and stuff like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Like, oh, I just nipped the mafia in the bud after a legendary career. I can retire. Nope, still working, age 85. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, I mean, he's a go-getter, so. What is it like being taught by these legends of undercover police work? I'm sure it's an honor, but I assume also you feel some kind of pressure to not blow it after you take a course from one of these guys. Sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Es ist einfach furchtbar. Du hast erwähnt, dass du mit diesem Mann nahe bist. Du machst mit diesen Kriminellen echte Freunde, weil du so viel Zeit mit ihnen spielst. Und sie sagen dir Dinge wie, ich vertraue nur einer Hälfte der Menschen in der Leben. Und du bist einer von ihnen. Und es ist dein Job, sie zu töten und sie auf den Straßen zu halten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Aber auf irgendeinem Niveau, außer wenn sie dich in einem Wohnzimmer suchen und dich vielleicht töten, muss es sich schuldig fühlen, diese Leute zu zurückzulassen, oder? Gibt es nicht ein bisschen davon? Außer dem, was du gesagt hast, über das Tötchen und das Stribben. Ja.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, man, it's got to be tough emotionally. Does the FBI have any kind of program where maybe they keep an eye on your mental health a little bit during your career or the operation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ich habe viele Bilder gesehen und es hat mich für eine Woche verletzt. Normale Menschen brauchen wahrscheinlich etwas nach dem. Du hörst das mit den Leuten, die das für Meta, für Facebook, tun. Niemand will diesen Schiff. Es war ein Interview an Vices und niemand will das. Es ist der schlimmste Job in der Unit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Right, it colors your judgment, which affects your safety. No, it makes complete sense. One thing I've noticed a lot with a lot of yellow undercover guys, whether it's ATF, FBI, regular police, you always end up not sleeping and getting addicted to stimulants like ephedrine, caffeine, whatever it is. And that would also affect your judgment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
If you haven't slept for weeks on end or months on end and you're taking 700... 1.000 Milligramm Kaffee pro Tag mit einem Bikergang zu funktionieren. Du brauchst jemanden, der vielleicht einen normalen Schedule schläft, um deine Entscheidungen zu beurteilen. Ich wurde so, ich war immer ein Speedfreak.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Eigentlich sind wir alle Adrenalin-Junkies. Ja, das klingt so. Wie schlägst du die Mannschaft ab und entscheidest, wir haben genug Fische im Netz. Wenn wir das Netz jetzt öffnen können, ist es ein Erfolg. Weil ich mir vorstelle, dass es bestimmte Parteien gibt, die sagen, zwei mehr Wochen. Glaub mir, ich habe das. Wir machen noch einen wirklich großen Deal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Und jemand anderes sagt, nein, wir haben eine verdammte Menge Beweise. Wer macht diese Entscheidungen und wie wird diese Balance gemacht?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Wow, ja, das wäre so ein seltsames Gefühl, weil du sagst, ich habe meinen Job gemacht, indem ich diesen Mann überdrückt habe, aber er war ein Kriminal. Also sind der Teufel und der Engel auf deiner Schulter, sind sie ein bisschen wie, naja, das ist deine Schuld. Sie bewegen sich einander, richtig? Ja. Es ist eine seltsame Sache, die in der Meinung läuft.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Speaking of the next case, man, I'm definitely going to have you back to talk about these white power gangs, because that was what originally got me interested. These guys make the outlaws look stable and mainstream in many ways. And then some. Yeah, exactly. Scott Payne, thank you very much. We'll see you back in a couple of days. Absolutely, brother. Thank you for having me on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with an undercover ATF agent that infiltrated the infamous Pagans Biker Gang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
To hear how Ken Croke spent two years risking his life, going through initiation in one of the most ruthless biker gangs in the world, check out episode 673 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Und es scheint so zu sein, dass man so etwas machen kann, weil man müde und entspannt ist, aber es ist nur eine wirklich gute Illustration, wie diese kleinen Teile der Attitüde, diese kleinen Teile dieser kleinen Akutramonts, diese kleinen Dinge dich in deinem Familienleben folgen. Und er hat gesagt, dass ich zu Hause im Grunde ein Geist war.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Es hat eine große Bedeutung auf die Familie genommen, wie es immer ist. Wir sollten diese Leute wirklich für die Anzahl der Selbstsacrifice, die sie machen, in Bezug darauf, die Rest von uns sicher zu halten, anerkennen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Oh, und nach seinem geschlossenen Anruf mit Clothesline, dem Jungen, der ihn fast in einem Wohnzimmer getötet hat, einer seiner geschlossenen Freunde, in dem Buch spricht er darüber, wie er nach dem Anruf die Skripte auf einige seiner Zielgruppen wechseln würde und sie unterdrehen würde, um sicherzustellen, dass sie keine Schraube tragen würden, was ziemlich lustig ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Erinnere dich an einen Unterkopf-Kop, der dich unterdreht, damit er sicherstellt, dass du keine Schraube trägst. Obwohl, es gibt viele Interferenzen in Unterkopf-Operationen, also gibt es manchmal die Möglichkeit, dass du jemanden unterdrehen machst, um zu sehen, ob er eine Schraube trägt, und ein Kopp findet einen anderen Kopp, der eine Schraube trägt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
And that must be confusing and somewhat humorous. And it probably diffuses the tension when you find out that you're both cops. Although I'm sure it's not good for the operation. All things Scott Payne will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts and ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Please consider supporting those who support the show. Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking as well over at 6minutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
I suppose that makes sense though. You want people who can operate under pressure and really one of the best ways to enhance that pressure without injuring somebody is to make sure that they're dog tired when they do something and they can't think straight.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to really share the show with those you care about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
So if you know somebody who's interested in the FBI, undercover cops, these sort of true crime-ish stories told from the law enforcement perspective, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
When I was 20-something, now, no. If I'm not in bed by 9 p.m., now it's like, oh, Dad's pissed. What's wrong with Dad?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Yeah, look, it's good that not everybody makes it. It would be too easy if that's the case, that everybody who gets tapped for it makes it through.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Oh, das ist schrecklich. Ja, es zeigt wirklich, wie gefährlich dieser Job ist. Und wir werden ein bisschen darüber sprechen. Erzähl mir über deine erste, ich glaube, wir nennen es deine erste Unterkunftsoperation in der Hochschule.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Ja, das ist interessant. Das ist schwer, wenn die Leute es nicht akzeptieren oder sagen, oh ja, Tommy hat es gemacht. Er hat es während der dritten Periode gesprochen. Es ist anders. Es ist eine Verleumdung der Evidenz, die lauter ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Also es scheint, als hätte man eine Intuition für das oder eine natürliche Talent für das, weil ich nicht weiß, wie viele Leute unter der Kante gehen würden, ein paar Leute fragen und dann die Person bemerken, die nicht gesprochen hat. Sie sind wahrscheinlich nur so, dass niemand es mir akzeptiert hat. Also ich glaube, niemand sagt, dass sie wissen, wer es war. Wir sind verbunden.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
It just depends. Tell me about your first few drug buys when you became an undercover. First of all, you mentioned surveillance in the book. Where do you pee when you're sitting in a car for 12 hours? I could never do that. I pee every 20 minutes. I don't know how these guys, what do they just bring a Gatorade bottle and they, okay. I'd need like a whole case of Gatorade bottles. It's not sexy. No.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Females clearly have a harder time, but Gosh, you got to order something off Amazon to make that work, I guess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
or just your information. This is off topic, but whatever. There's a place near me in this Vietnamese shopping center, and I swear something is going on there. There's a really popular restaurant next to it, but this is a coffee shop, and no matter what hour of the day you go, whether it's at night to eat dinner or during the early day to eat lunch,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1120: Scott Payne | How the FBI Turned Me Into the Perfect Outlaw
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, spies, CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional rocket scientist, CEO, neuroscientist or tech luminary. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
This episode is sponsored in part by Mint Mobile. You know how those big wireless companies always find a way to squeeze every last dime out of you? Like, hey, here's your bill, and surprise, there's an extra fee for existing. It's ridiculous. That's one reason we finally tried Mint Mobile. The other reason is because they paid us handsomely to do so. But
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I know you met him in a place that not a lot of Mormons maybe hang out. Or do they?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
That's an interesting idea, because if he's going to meetings that where he has to decide if somebody is essentially credit worthy, he's not able to run a JPMorgan Chase background credit check on the people that are walking in. He only has a little bit of data and people can mask that data forever. if they're trying really hard.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
But if there's a bunch of naked women around, maybe it's harder to do that because you're operating with less bandwidth to mask whatever he happens to be looking for. That's an interesting strategy. That was very well stated. It's a fascinating strategy though, right? Because otherwise, where would you do that kind of thing?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You'd have to do a lot more work to figure out if somebody was a credit risk than just observing them. So I guess also you didn't have to worry about running into guys from church at a script. Well, you actually, who knows? You never really know. But nothing would be spoken. Right. Yeah. Nobody would say anything. I didn't see you there. Nope. No, I was out. I was out of town on business.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So he loans you this money. Does he just give you a stack of cash? How does it work?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
That's a little bit of money laundering then, probably. If he's paying you with a check and it's a business expense and you're paying him back in cash and that cash just vanishes, okay. He had another angle that was working there, for sure. He did indeed. Yeah, wow. Okay, so the guy in New York, the racist guy, he doesn't pay you for the brochures Now you've got a loan from a loan shark.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
What was the interest rate? Like 10%, something like that? Crazy? It was 10% per month. Oh my gosh.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Oh my gosh. And now you have no hope of getting paid back at this point. Yikes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah. But you can't just buy the paper that money is on. Isn't that sort of special?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional former jihadi, investigative journalist, or Emmy-nominated comedian.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
The real bills have those tiny little hairs, basically.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
When you made this work, you must have been pretty excited because I know the feeling of getting something to work. You got this theory. No one else has ever done it. You didn't just look it up. You figured it out yourself and then it works. You kind of get a little bit giddy. Did you have a feeling like that? Oh my God, I'm going to do it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Mint Mobile starts at just $15 a month, so you won't have to pay handsomely to try it out. That includes high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. Mint Mobile is significantly cheaper than our old carrier. They do keep the cost down because you prepay for 3, 6, 12 months, whatever, and they make it really easy. You can keep your current phone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today on the show, Russ Swain. He's a Mormon, a counterfeiter, and an art forger. And yes, that sure sounds like a contradiction. And this is a story of his attempt to essentially walk that line. Russ's career began when he created a fake postage stamp in order to get a job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, it wouldn't absorb anything. It would just be covered with the ink and that's it forever. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, I can definitely see what you mean by the creativity taking over. That gives way to excitement, which pushes the fear out. Because now you're not shaking, thinking, oh my gosh, what if the police find me? You're just thinking, wow, this looks like a real $20 bill. And it feels like a real $20 bill. I did it. I got a masterpiece by the tail, creatively.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
This was not your first attempt at forgery. What's this about report cards? that you had created for friends as something like a business back in the day. I wanna hear about this, because I think it's funny, of course you would never think about doing this as an adult, except for the fact that you ended up using your art skills for the dark side a little bit when you were a teenager as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And it all snowballed from there, resulting in huge amounts of counterfeit U.S. currency. But he got away with it. Sort of. I love this conversation. We had a lot of fun with it. I think he's just a really subtly entertaining guest that you'll love as well. I think you'll know what I mean by subtly entertaining once we start this conversation here. So here we go with Russ Swain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I'm doing the inflation calculation on this right now. What year was this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, I cannot imagine. That must have been a really big deal because not only are you forging the notes to get people out of school, but Then you're forging the fake report cards. Then you're forging the parent signatures on the real report cards to say they saw them. I mean, there's just a sort of definition of a slippery slope.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And you're making one problem begets another problem begets another problem. And suddenly you're just in way over your head. It was only a matter of time until you got caught, for sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So to me, it was just a lot of creative fun, I guess. Now grab your inkjet and print out some crispy $100 bills. It's time to support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by the Moonshot Podcast. If you love hearing the real stories behind world-changing tech, you've got to check out the Moonshot Podcast.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
This isn't just a deep dive into cool gadgets. It's a behind-the-scenes look at Alphabet's Moonshot Factory, aka X, where some of the craziest, most ambitious ideas of the last 15 years were born. We're talking self-driving cars, AI that writes its own code, robots, laser-powered internet, even tech that predicts wildfires, stuff that sounds impossible until it's not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And the guy leading the conversation is Astro Teller, literally the captain of moonshots. In this 10-episode limited series, he sits down with people who built these wild ideas and tackles some big questions, like can we actually achieve the clean energy dream? Can technology help save the planet?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
What I love about this podcast is it's not just about futuristic tech, it's all about the mindset behind innovation, the risks, the failures, and the relentless optimism it takes to push boundaries. So if you've ever wondered how impossible ideas become reality, the Moonshot Podcast is your kind of show. Just premiered on March 10th with new episodes every week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Find it wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is also sponsored by Quince. Upgrading your wardrobe can feel like a serious investment, especially if you're after quality, and quality usually comes with a hefty price tag until we found Quince take their Mongolian cashmere sweaters, just 50 bucks for the kind of soft luxe knit that usually costs triple the price.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So I read the book and there's so many funny things in there that you could theoretically never get away with now. And there's so many great stories in here. And I just want to say it must have been hard to write a book about a lot of the places where you made your biggest mistakes in life. And I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if I want to be that honest with myself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And Jen is rocking head to toe quints from their 14 karat gold necklaces and washable silk tanks to their stretch pont pants. Is it ponte? I don't even know how you pronounce that. So how does quints keep prices 50 to 80% lower than similar brands?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
They cut out the middleman and they work directly with top tier factories, meaning you get premium pieces without the premium markup and they're doing it right. Partnering only with ethical manufacturers that use high quality materials and only the best children assembling these clothes. But it's not only clothes. Quince has everything from bedding and baby essentials to travel must-haves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So instead of spending a fortune on just a few luxury pieces, build a wardrobe and home that is effortlessly stylish without the guilt and the designer price tag.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, creators, forgers, counterfeiters every single week... It is because of my network, and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. This is not a schmoozy, gross, awkward course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
It is all about making you a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend, and a better peer in a few minutes a day. Very decidedly non-cringe, very down-to-earth and super easy, and many of the guests on the show already subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at 6minutenetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Now, back to Russ Swain. So growing up Mormon, all I really know about the Mormon church, well, I know a few things here and there. A lot of blonde people, a lot of getting married when you're like, I don't know, 20 and having a huge number of kids. Huge number of kids. And the mission where I'll run into Mormon kids in the middle of places where, honestly, tourists should not generally be going.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And they're standing on the street corner with a sign that says free English lessons in Albanian or whatever. And I'm like, what are you doing here?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Even Brazilians feel that way. I don't know. I'll have to check my inbox after this. It's going to be full of interesting notes from people of all various faiths and nationalities. So how long are the missions? Are they two years? Two years, yeah. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Does that make sense?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
It must have been a real shock going from Ogden, Utah, I've never been there, but I can kind of imagine what a mid-sized city in Utah is like, to Sao Paulo, Brazil.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
It's probably three times that size now, but that's just, that's a place that when you see it from satellite pictures or from YouTube, you just go, this is pure chaos. Ogden, Utah, it makes Ogden, Utah look like a rural farming village. It's just the size difference alone and the traffic and the air quality and the music. I can't imagine more night and day, Ogden, Utah and Sao Paulo, Brazil.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I can imagine as an artist also just having a lot of new input is valuable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, man, I could not agree more. I'm trying so hard not to go off on a travel tangent of my own, because I have so many other things to talk to you about here. I love everything you're saying here. It makes complete sense, and I couldn't recommend traveling any more than I already do. I think it does change your life when you stay somewhere for a long period of time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You're not there for a week, you're not at a hotel, You are walking around the market looking at somebody selling crabs and learning the language, and you really get all those cultural nuances. Two years in a place like that is a long enough time for you to really absorb a lot of nuance, a lot of language, and a lot of culture.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yes, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I've stayed in a lot of places for a year, 10 months, whatever, even several months. There's just a huge shift that happens after, it's hard for me to pinpoint, but four, five, six weeks, two months, three months, it probably depends on the person and the place and everything like that. But there's a shift that happens where you just go, all right, I live here now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Not, okay, when I get home, I gotta remember to throw the blanket and the laundry and all that stuff goes away. You start thinking in the other language after however many months, then your foot's on the gas. in this different kind of understanding. Okay, so you've got all these bills. You've made them. You're pretty happy with the product.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You've been in your print shop while your family's been away camping or whatever, making the ink, the paper, right? But aren't the bills just spotless and unused? That's a little suspicious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
How ironic and coincidental that you are literally putting the money on your feet to make it look weathered. And that Bible verse, yeah, no wonder that was fresh in your head. Feet that are quick to run to mischief and or stepping on literal forged $20 bills. By the way, did they smell like feet? Were you spending foot-smelling money? I'm sure they did. Money has a kind of a crappy smell anyway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So... On the plus side, your mistakes are entertaining. And that's what we're going to talk about today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, it does. I can just imagine her being like... What is that smell? And why is this slightly wet? Where have you been keeping this money? It's kind of a funny visual. Man, this guy's so nervous, even he's sweating through his pants pocket. The money's damp. Oh my gosh. What about the serial numbers on the bills?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Because doesn't that take a different kind of machine to do 10,001, 10,002, 10,003? That's very perceptive, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, why would you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Great. Tell me how you went from essentially an art school grad to a forger, to a con man with a postage stamp. You essentially turned on almost a dime or a postage stamp, if you will, and that was the beginning of this whole thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I assume you didn't just pay the loan shark back with a stack of fake $20 bills with the same serial number on them either, right? So you had to buy the tampons, get the change back. Did the tampon thing do the trick? Did you just eventually collect the 10 grand that you needed in the time that you needed it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Oh, yeah. Ogden, Utah, you might run out of tampon shops, right? Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Before people start giving you side eye. Yeah. Oh, exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Or they just didn't care. Baseball cap and a jacket, not an amazing disguise, right? No, it's not an amazing disguise.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Isn't there a thing with UV, or was this not a thing back then? Real bills, they glow, or real bills don't glow under the UV light? Or is that only $100 bills, or is that only from 1995 on? Do you know what I'm talking about?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, people right now are probably thinking, how did people not notice this? But I did an episode with a brain scientist named David Eagleman. He told me that people just don't study currency. They assume it's real. Nobody who gets handed money assumes that the bill is fake. That's why they have checks like drawn it with a marker, put it under the UV light. And if those checks come up...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
you're already assuming the bill is real because you've seen a hundred of those that week that are real. It would be so weird to find a fake one that you're expecting it to come up as real. So even if it glowed like a little bit, you'd just go, ah, whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
As long as you're not looking at 10 bills, the same serial number with each vendor, and it's not completely obvious that it's fake in some other way, people just are not going to really notice this. I'm curious though, what did it feel like being rich overnight? Did it make you any happier? Did it alleviate your stress level or were you too stressed out about getting caught potentially?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I do wonder, though, you're printing all these bills. Are there bad ones? Are there duds that come out or like, oh, that's smeared because something happened or I touched that with my thumb and it wasn't dry yet? What do you do with those?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I assume you've got to inspect all these bills and make sure that they look good because that's how you get caught is you have a thumbprint on one of your bills or something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
At least you didn't burn the house down. That would have been worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, there's no really good way to explain yourself out of that one. You'd have to come up with a real whopper. No, it's fake money that I wanted to get rid of for absolutely no suspicious reason whatsoever. And don't call the police. Yeah, there's just no good way. You eventually pay the loan shark back, right? Right. With the laundry. So how did that feel?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
That must have been at least a relief because now you're not going to get kneecapped by some gangster.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And then you stopped printing the money and lived happily ever after. No, that's not why we're here. How long did you print the money? Because you kept printing it after that, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
We want this criminal on our roster immediately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And they've seen all kinds of shady gangsters and mafia and criminals come through with fake bills and fake checks and fake everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So for people who are unclear about this, because at first I was like, wait, how do you draw a postage stamp? The answer is you're not supposed to do that. You go to the post office, you buy these books of stamps that stick onto things. And I know people over 40 are like, Jordan, are you really explaining this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
What is kiting checks? Like just writing bad checks? Is that what that means?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Wow. So at this point, they rat you out immediately because they're scared, understandably. And they knock on your door eventually, I assume?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Look, there's a lot of people who are under 30 listening to this show, and they probably have never seen a postage stamp that sticks onto things because they're all printed now, right? Oh, that's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You too can do good deeds with your money by supporting the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Haya Health. Most kids' vitamins are basically candy in disguise. They're packed with sugar. What if I told you there's a better option? Haya has zero sugar, no gummy junk, and is actually packed with good stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
But the real question is, will kids actually eat it? Mine do. Not only that, they were actually super excited about decorating their individual vitamin bottles with their included stickers. So now, instead of me reminding them to take their vitamins, they remind me, which is a parenting win that I did not see coming.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And once you get the first bottle, they send you eco-friendly refills every month.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, I can't even tell you the last time I got a piece of mail where there was a stamp stuck on there that somebody had hand placed on there that wasn't barcode or some kind of thing rolled on there with a machine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support the amazing sponsors who make this show possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You can always dig up codes using the AI chatbot on the website, but they should all be listed and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. And if you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code, you're not sure if it ever existed, please do email us jordan at jordanharbinger.com. We are happy to surface that for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Russ Swain. I assume that they went, yeah, where's the international organized crime syndicate that's helping you do this? Because it's pretty impressive that you printed all these bills. They're of this quality. They passed the UV test. They got the diamond dust in them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Just doesn't seem like a thing you do in your garage or your print shop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And you decided to, let's say it's a little American flag with, I don't know, cannon on it or whatever the old stamps used for the first class mail. You basically just drew that so well that the post office went, yeah, that's a stamp, and sent that thing along. The machines or whatever they were using, or maybe it was human eye back then, That's a stamp and delivered the letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Can't imagine it would be so tempting to whitewash your participation in something like this, but you're right. There's no alibi big enough. And the Secret Service is very thorough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You mentioned they found thumbprints on the edges of the bills that you tried to burn because they went through the ash in the garbage and things like that with tweezers, which must have been a really long day or week for that agent.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Oh, my God. So incriminating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Do you know how much counterfeit U.S. currency is in circulation? Do you have any idea? I can imagine it's a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You know what? I'll look it up right now. Okay, in the United States, the U.S. Department of Treasury estimates that 70 to 200 million in counterfeit bills are in circulation at any given time. That is roughly one counterfeit bill for every 10,000 genuine bills. I don't know if that's more than I thought or less than I thought. I feel like that's less than I thought. 70 million?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
That doesn't seem like that much somehow, but I guess it is at the end of the day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
This is international, too, because remember, North Korea is making these. Iran was or is making these. So that's probably the bulk of it. But still, wow, that's crazy. Did you do any good deeds with the fake cash? You're a good person, right? So it wouldn't just be, oh, I'm playing carnival games and buying tampons. I mean, it would just be so tempting to do nice things with it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I feel like if you've got an unlimited money glitch, one of the most fun things you could do would be to help other people with it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So that was the proof in the pudding that you were a good enough artist to get this thing done. But stamps, it's hard to explain. It's a sticker, right? So it's got the edge at least is 3D. You could run your finger over it or look at it and see that it was drawn on there. Or did you draw that too?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Tell me about the Mexican cab driver. This is a fun use of funds as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
This is before your arrest, by the way, for people who are like, wait a minute.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
While she's in labor. Hi, who's this stranger in the room? No, thank you. That's so funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
That must have been the best and most fun use of the money, other than getting kneecapped by a gangster. All right. Wow. So, okay. Secret Service catches up to you. You get arrested. The agent is impressed that you didn't lie to him, but that's not getting you out of trouble entirely. Surely there's fallout from the family too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Like your wife must've been, I don't even know if angry is quite going to cut it here. She must've just been shocked and horrified.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I mean, surely they detected them and they just destroyed them like they do with other counterfeit bills. They documented it and destroyed it. And it didn't make it back to whatever probation officer's desk that you were dealing with. You got really stinking lucky.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
But the worst punishment was that I assume the relationship with your wife deteriorated as a result.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
What about your kids? How old were they? How do you explain to them what happened?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And you suckered him into driving you to studio today, which is really nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, there's a joke in there somewhere about paying with a $20 bill, but I'm not quite quick enough to come up with it. Man, it's such an interesting story and you got so lucky. I just can't get over it. Although I'm curious, you said years later, this cop walks in and maybe tests you. Tell us about this. I'm still trying to figure this one out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So it's not really good ROI for time if you're just trying to save on postage, but it was great ROI for time if you were trying to get a job, which was what you were doing. Trying to get a job. Correct. You think nowadays, if that happened, somebody would call the Secret Service or whatever, and that would be the end of your job hunt, I think, because you'd go to jail.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, probably walked out and got into that Secret Service agent's car and went, I think you made the right decision. You told me to get lost. Yeah, maybe so. I hope that was the case. How long after the trial was this? Was it years later, months later?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
What about the church? Did they find out about this? And what happens with the church when stuff like this happens?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So you were on probation from church too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
As we wrap here, I'm very curious. It sounds like your old principal gave you a chance to forge one last item.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, for sure. I think it's more the confession letter inside the envelope that would have gotten you in trouble, I think. True that. Okay. So you needed to stand out. You draw the stamp on there. And after that, did forging or counterfeiting things get easier or was it just kind of like, oh, that was a one-off. Now I work at this company. I have no intention of doing that again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
That's really funny. So somewhere, if Weaver High School is even still called Weaver High School and is still around, there's a jug there that everybody thinks, oh, it's from us winning all those championships against Ogden. And it's just something you made in your garage. Yep.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
It's not valuable enough to do. And also, this was you finally getting into the good graces of that principal who had one out for you for decades. That's so funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Russ Swain, thank you so much. You're a great storyteller. One of the things I love about this is when you talk to a mafia guy or a criminal, right, they have this little edge to them that they got that little kind of criminal. You just don't have that. You've got the Mormon guy thing going on. I made a twenty dollar bill and I painted a potion stamp and then the Secret Service arrested me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
And they thought it's just the way you tell the stories is so funny. Because it's so unassuming. And I think that might be one of the reasons you got away with it for so long is everybody went, he is not a counterfeiter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, thanks. I guess in another life, I would have been a Secret Service agent arresting you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with a skilled art forger who made millions selling his fakes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
But they never actually got you. Why did it go away? Why did you never get indicted? How are we having this conversation? Ha ha ha. I guess that's the greatest story of all. To hear details of how Ken Pereni evaded the scrutiny of everyone from the mafia to the FBI and lived to tell the tale, check out episode 282 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Some of the way he solved problems with his counterfeit currency, it really reminded me of episode 282 with Ken Pereni. A lot of creative problem solving goes into counterfeiting and forging. Things like using old nails from flea market art in his forgeries so they'd look old to the naked eye and on x-ray machines.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
taking the varnish off of an old painting and putting it on the forgery, that kind of stuff. Really, these guys all have this in common. They have to solve these really unique problems. Also, Russ got some early advice for his art career, namely, steal with both hands. That's what he was told about art. And, you know, there's a book, Steal Like an Artist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I think he might have taken that advice a smidge too literally, but, you know, you be the judge. Man, though, the fallout from his deeds. The kids couldn't play at other people's homes. That would hurt a lot. Not as bad as prison. maybe not as bad as losing your wife, but it sure would sting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I think that's really, having to look your kids in the eye and tell them what you did and see their disappointment, that one would really cut to the heart. All things Russ Swain will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, also quite fun and entertaining. Very practical, something that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions and your psychology and your relationships. In under two minutes, we send it out on most Wednesdays. If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It's a great companion to the show. jordanharbinger.com slash news is where you can find it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking as well over at 6minutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show, it's created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
The fee for the show is you share it with friends and you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who loves a good forgery or counterfeiting story, definitely share this episode with them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. Thank you for watching. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Especially yourself. I was going to say, especially yourself. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, that's 30 grand in today's money. That's an annual salary for somebody who's making, let's say, minimum wage. That's a lot of money.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
I will say it is a little surprising to hear how this man reacted because you're right. Jewish people, a lot of people are cringing right now. I am also of Jewish descent. So I feel like I'm qualified to talk about this without offending half the planet. First of all, even in the civil rights era, Jewish people and people of color, African-Americans stood side by side during that movement largely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So it is a little bit more surprising that, When you hear like old white dude, you think, okay, maybe there's some racism, generational stuff. But when you hear old Jewish dude, it's, yeah, you have like a higher percentage of them being a little bit more tolerant, you would think. And also New York. Sure. The guy in New York City, typically also even more liberal. More so. I agree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
It's surprising that he reacted that way. He sounds like just a piece of crap. This is not a good guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah. So just a note for people who are wondering about that, because your assumption that he was maybe more tolerant was reasonable, in my opinion. I would have made the same assumption. An older Jewish guy. Yeah, he's going to love this, especially that he okayed everything. But I didn't see the Chinaman on the front because you sent him a written description or whatever of the brochure. Sheesh.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
So this loan shark guy, how do you meet somebody like this in the first place? Because you don't seem like the type of guy. First of all, you're Mormon, correct? Correct. It doesn't seem like Mormons and loan sharks are hanging out in the same... Strip clubs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1129: Russ Swain | The Good Mormon Who Made Bad Money
Yeah, desperation. The loan shark, how did you even meet this guy? You don't walk around going, hey, does anybody know anybody who will lend me a ridiculous amount of money at a ridiculous interest rate? How do you find somebody like this? Surely somebody pointed you his way or did you grow up with this guy? Where did this guy come from?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Coming up next on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
So isn't that one of the chief allegations by Putin was that he invaded Ukraine because NATO was expanding?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Well, that's for sure true.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It's almost like, OK, well, this is a person who's a little bit progressive, but also has a firearm in the house and also believes in this, but also has these thoughts about immigration and these thoughts about the economy. And so if someone's getting their line of thinking exclusively from one side of the aisle or the other, they have so many issues with me that they don't stick around generally.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It seems like when Putin or whoever says, hey, NATO is expanding towards our borders, they maybe were pointing to what, like Romania or something like that. I just know that it's a common refrain among people who say, well, the reason Ukraine happened was because NATO was right on Russia's doorstep.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Look, I agree with that. I'm not arguing that. I'm just having you give me some ammo against these people because I see that argument a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
That's fine with me. Yeah, I figured. I've always found it strange, though. If you think about in today's age, the more you actually think about your positions or change your mind when presented with new information, the less of a team player you are for some reason. But don't we want somebody who takes new information into consideration and then changes their mind?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
That's crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
What do you think of the situation in Ukraine right now, the peace plan to basically just, I mean, it sounds like capitulate to Putin and cut the country in half. Do we think that that's the best way to end hostilities, or do we think that's just going to give Russia time to regroup and attack Ukraine again?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
And it's like, no, we don't want that. We want somebody who's cheerleading for the thing that we believed in before, even if we've long since decided that that's wrong. We're still sticking to it. That never made sense to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
The Twitter peace plan, the one you see on Twitter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
You know who won't starve your whole family to death? The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I manage to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. I teach this class to journalists. I teach it to spies. I teach it to law enforcement. And I teach it to regular old corporate Joes, just like many of you. And not that there's anything wrong with that. The course is about improving your relationship-building skills. It is not cringey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It is very down-to-earth and practical. It is not fluff. I can tell you that. And it's six minutes a day is all it takes. Actually, it takes like five, but five-minute networking was taken. Many of the guests on our show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Now, back to Anne Applebaum. I've heard even if Putin did want to end the war, let's say this week, he would have trouble doing so, not just because he would look really bad at having not achieved his goal, but also... and I don't know how much you know about this, but the entire economy of Russia at this point is on a wartime footing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
So if you just go, all right, we don't need radar tanks, guns, ammunition, it's kind of like saying, all right, no tech companies in California. Well, that's kind of a big number of jobs and GDP that we're just turning off with the flip of a switch. So it's almost like they can't afford to stop the war at this point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It's not something you can grind to a halt overnight without causing massive damage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
This is a unrelated sort of tangent here, but why do autocratic states spend so much time disparaging the West? What does it do? I noticed that there's almost like a it's not a part time job. It's several people's full time job to think of reasons why the West sucks. I see it from China a lot and I see it from Russia a lot. I see it from other places and alliances a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
I see it from people who pretend to be Americans a lot online as well or Europeans.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
That's for sure. Yeah. What is the function of this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah. It just shows you how everything is seem to change. It's like your position, you think I haven't moved or I haven't moved that much. And you realize that now you're basically a centrist when you were a Republican 20 years ago or 30 years ago. It's a little disconcerting because that shift in one direction or the other just shows you that the extremes are more polarized, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
So a critic might say, come on now, we spend a ton of time disparaging China, Russia, North Korea. How is this different?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
And that leads to scary things, which you are now writing about, such as and your latest book, Autocracy, Inc., which we'll link in the show notes, I gave it a read. It was one of those things you can kind of read in one quick airplane ride.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah. It's not loaded with a history of the Bolshevik Revolution in Chapter 3. It's like, okay, we don't have to get that much in the weeds on stuff, which I appreciate, because I don't think people realize the characteristics of autocracies, and they'll simply parrot news talking points, but they don't realize that there's kind of an axis of these autocracies folks working together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
And that might even be a good place to start. Autocracies and authoritarian regimes, they seem to work together in some ways. But I always found that kind of weird because they're not aligned ideologically, right? It's not like fundamentalist Islamic regime of Iran. They don't really have a ton in common with Venezuela, unless I'm missing something. But yet these are allies somehow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
I actually set up a shell company a few years ago just to see if it was hard. It's not hard. And I know people say, well, you're a lawyer. You know how to do that stuff. Honestly, you could figure it out in a few hours. It's really easy. It's easy. And if you can't do it because you can't read English, you can hire a lawyer and they can do it in a Saturday afternoon.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
I mean, it's so ridiculously simple. Movies would have you think that it's this complicated system that you need half of Deutsche Bank's analyst department working on it. No, you can do it online. I mean, it's just... so damn easy. The hardest part is finding a place to headquarter it. But once you do a few hours of research, I mean, you can do it in Delaware.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
You can do it, I think, in Nevada or like you said, was it North Dakota? There's all these different places you can do it that you kind of wouldn't expect. You think like, oh, I I can't do it in the US. Actually, we're kind of in HQ for a lot of those. It really is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
By the way, you mentioned Oliver Bullough on the show episode 228 for people who are looking for that and not finding it because it's pretty old. You mentioned in the book that Chinese censorship is, of course, on the rise and the tech has evolved to the point where they're working on being able to predict political dissent based on internet activity.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Can you give us an overview of how that would work? That's kind of incredible because you're talking about mind reading.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, I saw a video on Instagram a couple of days ago. My wife sent it to me and she's like, look how cool this is. And it was the cops finding somebody who had robbed some institution. And it's like him driving and then another camera of him driving and then him driving this way and that way and this way and that way and then getting out of the car and then it just keeps switching cameras.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
But all the comments are like, oh my gosh, this is terrifying. This should be scary. This is not cool. This is scary. So you do think, wow, it's great they can catch this guy because he's a dangerous armed robber. But on the other hand, yeah, if you have a government that's willing to misuse this technology, now you can't get away from being observed at all. Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It's like that Will Smith movie from the early 90s, Enemy of the State. You ever see that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Not a standout movie, but yeah, I remember being like, wow, they turned his credit cards off. This is the future.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Right. It'll be like, oh, we have him on camera at a shopping mall. How are you viewing this camera from this far away? This is amazing. Yes, it uses satellites. Oh, wow. Space.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
This is a long time before you could literally just buy an AirTag for 30 bucks and throw it in your kid's shoes so that they don't wander off at the mall. Right. What's up with the falling out of windows in Russia? It's a cliche now. It's a joke now. Surely this is now being done deliberately because otherwise, geez, hit someone with a car. Switch it up a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
They're not trying to make it look like an accident, right? They're trying to say, we killed this person. We just didn't use a bullet to do it because, I don't know, it's more poetic. I don't really get it. What's going on with this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
The poisoning of, I think, is Alexander Litvinenko with the polonium-212. That was one of those where it has to be able to only have been us, right? So they get this weird substance that only exists, I don't know, inside a nuclear reactor that's in Siberia, and they use that to kill the guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, it's so interesting because it's counterintuitive, right? The people online who are saying, oh, it's not the Russians. No, they want us to think this. No need to defend these people for free, especially. They want us to know who did this. There's a reason they picked this particular method or this particular poison. I want to switch gears a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It's funny because I'll get a review that's like, this guy is nothing more than a right wing fascist with a fashy haircut. And I'm like, OK, fine, guilty on the haircut. But the other stuff I don't really get. And then the next review is like this left wing commie, idiot, tanky. And I'm just like, guys, make up your mind. Am I a communist or a fascist? Come on already. Yep.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, I have that problem, too. It's almost like you have to average the two and I end up in the middle. You've written extensively on the failures of communism. Why do you think the appeal persists in certain circles, especially in the West? This always baffles me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
How long does it take to go, wait a minute, this is not a democracy anymore? In history, how does it work with other countries or how has it worked with other countries where you're just a dictatorship now? How does that happen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yes, I am. I'm glad to know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
I know I've taken a lot of your time. In closing, maybe this will end up in a positive note. What steps can citizens and leaders take to reinforce democratic resilience in the face of these challenges?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional rocket scientist, Russian chess grandmaster, gold smuggler, or hostage negotiator.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
And Applebaum, thank you so much. This is fascinating. And I really appreciate you humoring all my probably relatively silly questions about elementary topics.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with geopolitics analyst Peter Zion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
For more about how globalization and our way of life will change dramatically in the coming decade, check out episode 781 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Thanks to Anne for doing this one. She is always kind of hard to nail down. Poland, D.C., Ukraine, elsewhere. All things Anne Applebaum will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Advertisers, deals, and discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. If you want something practical and specific that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, and your relationships in under two minutes a week, definitely check this out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
If you haven't signed up yet, it is a great companion to the show. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking as well. It's over at 6minutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. In this show, it's created in association with Podcast One.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
If you know somebody who's interested in geopolitics, dictators, autocratic regimes, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, it's almost like corporations that happen to work together on something as opposed to nations that work together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, they help each other have their intelligence services travel around, launder money. I mean, you see this with BRICS, right? One of the funny things that I see online a lot is like, oh, the U.S. dollar is going down. BRICS is getting stronger. And then you talk to somebody who is like deep PhD economist or something like that that's worked for a large international organization.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, and I appreciate it when you do, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
They're like, BRICS? You mean the countries that can't even get along or agree on one single thing and have no reason to trust each other are all suddenly going to band together and create a non-dollar international currency when they won't even float their own currencies on the international market? Sure thing, buddy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Yeah, I should have been clear. I don't mean that the BRICS countries are an axis of evil, per se. I just brought it up as an idea that these countries work together when it sort of suits them, my outside opinion. But these alliances, almost by definition, can't be as strong as, say, an alliance between the United States and Australia or...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
the UK, for example, because if the only thing you have in common is, man, it sure is hard to make money when we're under sanctions, man, those Americans are really getting under our skin economically. That's sort of a weaker tie than we share hundreds of years of common values of language and culture.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on this show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Look, I'm 45 years old and I'm not a historian, so you might have to explain some relatively simple things to me. I grew up in the 80s, right, in the Cold War. And the Soviet Union, the main autocracy of that time, at least kind of pretended to care about norms and international order.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
When I look at these old videos, I wanted to see what the foreign ministers of the Soviet Union were saying about things just like they do now, where they sort of pretend to care about the international order when the United States does something. But then when they do something like, oh, it's our own affair. Don't get involved. Right. Ukraine is a domestic affair or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
They pretended they cared about the superiority of, say, Soviet communism. This system is superior. Everyone look at how well we're doing now. It's like they just don't give a crap. You have the dictator of Belarus or Putin, for that matter. They just flout any semblance of order of rule of law or like we follow this specific system.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It's just all kind of like the mask is off and they're like, OK, that failed. We don't need to replace it. We can still do whatever we want. Try and stop me. That's kind of what I see from them now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Today, historian, author, and journalist Anne Applebaum joins us to discuss dictators and autocratic regimes, how and why these regimes, these crazy, kooky governments work together against their own people, and of course, against the West, what communism might look like in America, propaganda, censorship, and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
Anne is a great speaker and writer, and I know you'll enjoy this conversation, especially if you're paying attention to geopolitics and you like those episodes, like many of us do. Here we go with Anne Applebaum. This show doesn't fit neatly into a box. It's not like, well, we do right wing talking points or left wing talking points.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships
It seems like it, but some critics might say that's what the U.S. wants. They're forcing NATO spending to be higher in these other countries as well. What would you say to somebody who says, well, hey, you said these countries work together. U.S. and their allies work together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Coming up next on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Maybe 20 more years. I don't know when they finished developing that thing. Mine took a while. It is about 20 years. My daughter will say something like, Jaden will be standing on the picnic table and she'll go, that's dangerous. And he's like, I'm going to try to fly. And I'm like, listen to your sister on this one. I don't think this is going to work out the way you think it's going to work out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And it's just like constantly monitoring them. And then finally, now he'll say that's dangerous and then he'll do it anyway. And I'm like, That's not the point we're trying to bring across. But I remember when I was younger, my friend Katie was a really good student. And they gave us these student homework books.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And you would write the subject and write what you had to do in the lines next to it and write when it was due. And I would ask my friend Katie, how do you remember to look at that when you have homework? And she goes, when I come home, I just look at it. And I go... how do you remember to write down what you need? And she goes, when the teacher's telling you to do it, you write it then.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And I go, but then you go home and then you pull this out and you read it and then you do your homework. Because I couldn't get all those steps. That was not happening. She's like, idiot. All you do is write it down and then you do it when you get home. That was impossible for me to do. I didn't even get that until towards the end of high school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I think you will as well. And now here we go with Richard Reeves. All right. You've said we're in a crisis of male inequality, and you've highlighted in your work how society often overlooks men's struggles. And even saying that, I've got this little, like, itch in the back of my head where I go, now I'm going to get a lot of emails just about this particular thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah, that sounds about right. And even if the teacher's like, bring your homework up, I'd just be sitting there staring at the wall. And then it's, did you turn in your homework? Oh, I don't know. It's like, where was I? I don't know. That gap widened all the way, seemingly, for me anyway, widened all the way through school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
A lot of the girls that I studied with in high school, it wasn't that they were smarter than all the guys, it's that they were organized in a way that now I see with my wife and I is like still there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
We've done this with my son. We put him in preschool, then pre-K. And we're like, okay, he's finally ready for kindergarten. So we held him back because he was on the age line. And now we're like, oh God, that was such a good idea. I mean, it was just so dang necessary. Meanwhile, my wife said, we need to hold Juniper back? I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And it's hard to tell because she's three, but she is so much more ready, like I said, even than Jaden is at five for school. It's just absolutely unbelievable. Starting boys a year later probably wouldn't have been a bad idea. I didn't even think about just starting everyone later.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
What about investing more in trade schools? To go back to what we were talking about at the top of the show, it seems like I went to college because my parents were like, if you don't go to college, you're never going to get a good job. That was sort of like peak 90s parental wisdom. Yeah. from two parents who were the first in their families to go to college, I think, or one of the first.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
That made sense, but I also didn't totally need to do that. I ended up at what you might call a trade school anyway because I became a lawyer, but it's not quite the same thing that people are envisioning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's funny. I always say I was painted into a corner and I did what a lot of people do and they're back to have no other options and became a lawyer. It's true. It's just like a catch all for college overachievers that are like, I have no idea what to do with my life. They just go to law school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
When I was in Germany, there were different high schools for people who didn't show like they were going to go to college. And then they would go to a trade school. And by the time they were 18, they were pretty much ready to go be a tool and die maker or a railroad track repair person or engineer of some kind. And then you could go to college.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And usually when we're talking about a gender gap, we're talking about the gap that women face. It's a brave move for you to have even written about this. I would imagine there were a couple of publishers that were like... How about writing about AI like everybody else? What do you think?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
But that was like you were going to be academic and you were going to go to a professional level of something. But even in Yugoslavia, they had a high school just for people who are going to be police officers. It was like, this is where you go to high school and then you get out in your cop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's a totally different thing that we have here where it's like, oh, if you can make it, you can go to college. And if you can't, I'll take fries with that. It's like you really just give up on those people a lot of the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I've been trying to pop that bubble for years on this show where Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs. So he used to get really upset because people would say, oh, hey, Mike, I always watch your show with my son. And I tell him this is what happens when you don't stay in school. And Mike's, oh, you mean the people that bring electricity to everyone in the city are not as good as you? What are you again?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Like a... CPA? Go F yourself, pal. And it's just like, what do you mean this is what happens when you don't stay in school? You get a pension? You get outside every day? You get to work outside, work with your hands, helping people? It's just such an offensive notion that somebody who runs a railroad where you live is not as good as you because you spent more time indoors in school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's ridiculous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah. So basically, the jobs that many men would be well suited to do, we don't want to do them because we don't want to have people go, ah, couldn't make it in the academic world. Well, no, I actually kind of wanted this job. You snobby SOB. Right. I understand that you also you've talked before about heel jobs. I've never actually heard the term heel jobs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I guess it's a term that's being contrasted with STEM jobs. Tell me about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I just paid my HVAC guy the price of a small sedan. So yeah, the guy's doing fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
That's a really good Because I even remember my friends saying, oh, languages are for girls, which is such a weird thing to say.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Speaking of being a provider, I can feed my kids when you support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Factor. We all need food and figuring out what to eat can be a chore. Eating well is a priority, which is why our family relies in part on Factor. These are not your typical frozen meals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools, nearby parks, transportation options.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it is because of my network. I am now teaching you how to build your network for free over at sixminutenetworking.com. Networking is kind of a dirty word, but hey, we talked about in this very episode how men need to reach out and make stronger connections.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
That's what this course is, non-cringy ways to become a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend, and a better peer in just a few minutes a day. And many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at 6minutenetworking.com. Now, back to Richard Reeves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
You know, another weird thing that got coded wrong, in my opinion, is study abroad. It's almost always women doing it, which blows my mind because when I was an exchange student in the 90s, there were more women than men doing it. But I just thought that was random chance. It turns out I looked this up. Women are much more likely to study abroad even now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I assume that affects hiring because that's been one of the most standout things in my resume since 1998.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
You know what? The only thing that occurred to me, and I tried so hard to figure this out just based on my own personal experience, which is all anecdotal, but whatever. When I told everyone I was going to be an exchange student and go abroad, one, it was a woman's idea, my girlfriend at the time. It was her idea for me to do this in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
She's the one who encouraged it the most when I brought it up. She gave me the idea originally. All of my female friends were like, that's going to be amazing. Let me help you pick the country that you go to. Let's do pros and cons. And all my buddies, my guy friends were like, Man, why are you going to leave when you're going to be a senior? It's going to be awesome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
We're going to run the whole school. And it was like, who cares? Run the whole school. I'm going to Europe for a year. What are you talking about? Run the school. That's the dumbest possible smallest thinking goal I could ever think of. And all the women were like, oh, I'm so jealous. You don't have to be here next year. That's going to be amazing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
So I was encouraged by my female friends to pack up and go somewhere. And my guy friends were they all thought I was just nuts for leaving. You have a gym here. What more could you want? It's just a total opposite.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
So she was moving to Norway to go to boarding school. So that was already happening. That was like, hey, by the way. So she wanted to get you closer. Maybe. I don't think she cared anymore. But then I said, oh, I'm so jealous that you're leaving. Same thing that most of the women were saying to me. And then I said, all my friends were getting in trouble. They're getting in more trouble.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
They're doing way more drugs than I'm comfortable with. I don't want to sit around drinking all day in Russ's basement. This is getting old and we're only juniors. And she's like, why don't you become an exchange student like Jane? That was a girl from Norway that was in our class. And I said, that would be cool. How do you do that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
She goes, oh, I have a brochure sitting on my coffee table right now. Next time you come over, I'll give it to you or I'll bring it over to your house. And I just read this thing and looked at every country and the world just opened up right before my eyes when I saw this brochure. And she was like, you have to do it. And I said, it's expensive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And she's like, my mom will help you convince your parents. And she did. Her mom was a senator. So she was like, I'm calling your parents and telling them why this is important for you to do. And they believed her. So that's how I ended up an exchange student.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Another thing I'm worried about, I know we just got done talking about how great the trades are, but isn't automation replacing a lot of what was traditionally men's work? I know Uncle Frank's spit takes at the dinner table say that it's because the whole generation got lazy, but that's not really what's happening, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I know flight attendants have that, but that's because they got to be able to put people's luggage in the overhead thing. That's true. I hadn't thought of that. They still count. I'm sure they do. I've heard them say that to me because I'm like, oh, isn't that heavy? And she's like, we literally have to be able to do this for our job or we can't work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's coming for us lawyers. I know that. All the lawyers are like, oh, it's never going to be able to do. And I'm like, let me stop you right there. Everything that you can do, unless you're like a partner in a very specialized area of law, it can already do that. You just don't know how it works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It is. Yeah. Like it can't stand up at trial and argue for your client, but that's not what you do. You manage the spreadsheet. You write briefs. You said, I may be paraphrasing here, men and women's grip strength is now largely the same, which is such a weird. First of all, who's measuring this across generations? That's such a bizarre metric to even exist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
OK, because I thought that cannot be just genetically from testosterone levels. That can't be true. But what do I know?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah, I agree with you. I thought, what a strange thing to even be measuring.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Just because they're inside all day doing nothing?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And the sons are inside. It's true. Yeah. I certainly now at age 45 am doing way more than I did even as a teenager. Friends of mine are like, oh, remember when you were a kid and this happened? And I was like... man, I must have been even more of an indoor kid than I thought. Because all this stuff's happened to me now. Now I'm finally 45, living life. Before then, I was an indoor kid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Better late than never. Better late than never. That's right. I always tell people, say, I'm in the best shape of my life. They're like, wow, what's your secret? The secret is be in really bad shape for most of your life. That's really the trick. From a really low base.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
The bar is on the floor. It's only up from there. Do you worry at all that the drop in male employment will result or maybe even already has resulted in electoral shifts in the United States and in Europe for that matter?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah, I worry that if responsible parties don't address all these issues, that irresponsible people will take advantage of that. We've seen that throughout history in many ways.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And I'll get some stats in a second about how men are doing, but why do you think there's a tendency to downplay or ignore the struggles that men face? Yes, it seems like, okay, we don't want to be labeled as a misogynist, but is that it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah, we've seen that with the rise of guys like Andrew Tate, for example. I don't think that's a partisan comment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I'd love to talk about the term toxic masculinity, because I don't think it's done anybody any favors, because it basically doesn't mean anything. If it ever did, it doesn't mean anything now, to me anyway. I don't even know what people are talking about when they say it. Do they mean that masculinity is toxic? Do they mean that too much of it is toxic?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Or is it a different variation of masculinity that is toxic? I don't have a clue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah. That's all I know. That's all I know is they're trying to throw a label and get me to stop talking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
What do you think of some of these alt-men's movements? Like, you mentioned earlier red pill. I think you mentioned men going their own way, MGTOW. I don't know if they say that as an acronym or not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah, it's awkward. But first of all, what are those for people who've never heard of this, and what do you make of those?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
But who needs friends and relationships when you have the fine products and services that support this show? We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. As Anthony Bourdain once said, Airbnb can make that a reality. Hosting on Airbnb is an easy way to earn extra income without taking on a second job, and now, with Airbnb's co-host network, it's even simpler.
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1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Whether you're saving for your dream getaway or you're just looking for financial flexibility, Airbnb makes it easy to turn your space into extra income. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. This episode is also sponsored by Progressive. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Well, Progressive makes it easy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit Progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
This episode is sponsored in part by The Gist Podcast. If you like The Jordan Harbinger Show, you also want to check out interviews where the hosts actually do their homework, you can check out The Gist, hosted by my friend Mike Peska. The Gist is the longest running daily news and commentary podcast.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
He is genuinely curious, open to having his mind changed, and willing to explore the gaps between the stories we tell ourselves and the reality that we live in. The guest list is top tier. Ben Rhodes, former Obama speechwriter, Congressman Seth Moulton, even Jesse Eisenberg. But what really sets The Gist apart is Mike himself. Mike knows a little bit about everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
He's actually a fascinating company in person, just as he is on the podcast. One day he's breaking down First Amendment law, the next he's talking about musical theater, and his interviews actually feel like real conversations because they are. He's naturally good at this, or at least well-practiced, again, even in person. He's not just another stop on a guest publicity tour.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
So if you're looking for smart, engaging commentary that challenges the way you think, check out The Gist. Great for anyone who loves to stay informed. And again, Mike and his whole team, you're going to want to add this one to the rotation for sure. I also want to let you in on a little inside baseball.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Many of you probably do not know when you use our promo code, it really helps support the show. We don't get a percentage of sales directly, but it lets the company know that people are hearing the ad. They're more likely to renew their campaigns with us. So if you're signing up, buying something, please check out the deals page, jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Use our codes. It is a win-win.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
You get the discount and you help keep the show going strong. Thank you for your support. Now back to Richard Reeves. often about these men's movements, I just think, but for the grace of God, I was lucky I was born at the right place at the right time in a good family. I'll let people decide if I have good genetics based on whoever's watching on YouTube.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
But I had luck in the job market, especially with timing. I had luck in business. But if any of those things at any kind of point had gone wrong, I might also easily be blaming women or society for my life not turning out the way that I expected it or wanted it to. So I kind of, in a way, I have real empathy for these guys. Me too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
They're handling it terribly, just the worst way possible, whining online all day. But I also really, I understand how they got there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I agree. I think we push people to extremes. A lot of times it's to the right, but it's not always to the right. But we push guys like this to extremes because, like you said, some of what they say is correct. And then we refuse to acknowledge that, which just gets them to dig in their heels more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And it's not that this is a group of guys that wanted all women to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. That's an extreme reaction to stimuli that they're getting it elsewhere. Our mutual friend Ryan Holiday likes to say, we can't let the crazy people make us crazy people. And the algorithms are trying to radicalize you. Political parties are trying to radicalize you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Grifters on the internet are trying to radicalize you. So like, can we be surprised that some of us get radicalized by the system that is doing that? Especially when, you know, you get divorced, you lose your kids, then you get laid off. And of course you're not doing well. Of course you're going to look for a scapegoat. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
What advice would you give to young men navigating societal expectations and redefining their roles in today's world? I know that's a really broad question, but you're the man for the job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
That makes sense. You're right. It's a tough line to walk because you do hear from... people who say, hey, you're aggressing in this area. But then you get people who are like, finally, Jordan is coming with us to the dark side. And we'll get to some of what the dark side means in a little bit. But do you have stats off the top of your head about how men are not doing well?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Oh yeah, when it's a boy's trip is you're going to do something and then everyone's going to, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional pirates. Yeah, they still exist. Hacker, astronaut, or music mogul. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Wouldn't you say? Do you like being a guy? Yeah. I mean, personally, I like it. It's great. I couldn't handle being a woman, first of all. So it's the only option left on the table. That's right. Debatably. So yeah, I have to replay that clip for my wife when I want to go on a boy's trip this summer. Hey, I'm sorry, Richard Reeve says.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
To authority, exactly. Doctor's orders, I have to go get drunk in Berlin. I'm sorry, I don't have a choice. What steps can both men and women take to bridge this? maybe this growing disconnect in modern relationships too, because we see this all the time in marriage. Men work less when they're not providers. They don't see themselves as providers, so they're working less.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Divorce is harder on men psychologically. I read that in your book as well. And lower earnings from men result in less marriage. So it's not just like women are taken off without us. It's like, actually, everything's getting screwed up now, and it's going to get worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
No, I remember that contempt is the number one indicator of divorce and rolling your eyes sounds like it's part of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I love that. This is totally a non sequitur, but oh well. I gotta say, I'm worried about AI relationships supplanting human ones. Just given the changing landscape where women no longer need men as much economically and men are kind of like, well, if this isn't gonna work and I'm not good enough, I'm just gonna retreat into the internet. What impacts do you foresee for men moving forward?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's only a matter of time until guys are like, who doesn't give me any crap? My AI girlfriend and the woman who doesn't cost me money and tell me bad things and make me feel bad because he's emasculated. My AI boyfriend that I can turn off when I go to sleep or whatever. I feel like that's just right around the corner, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Well, yeah, that might come first because it's harder to program what women need for an AI boyfriend. Whereas AI girlfriend, I think we can all imagine the ingredients that go into that and how simple that might actually be.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
You can use this for as long as you want, honey. It's 20 bucks a month. I got it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It is. And people, they'll say, I don't really think that's going to happen. And I think, okay, I tell them the following, and maybe you can disagree with me on this example here, but imagine that your friend is dating someone and they don't really like them that much, but they're in a relationship. It's the first girl that he's dated for this long.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And there's so many things wrong with that relationship and they both see it. But they don't break up because they don't want to be alone. So what is he not doing? He's not going out and meeting new people. He's not really working on his social skills for meeting new people. He's not really raising his standards much above where he's at with her. He's just complaining about the death.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yes, what if he's not in a relationship with a girlfriend? What if he's in a relationship with an AI? He's got the exact same set of problems except for he's got no reason and no motivation to go out to a bar with his buddies and get rejected or laughed at or maybe just not talked to by the girl that he liked. Why deal with that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
You have to constantly be charging into battle almost socially until you get good at it and then you start to enjoy it. But if you never make it through that developmental phase... you probably won't ever be able to do that comfortably.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Yeah. Yeah. It's right. All jokes aside, what are some of the long term consequences of neglecting these issues for both men and society as a whole? Because this could affect future generations, societal cohesion. I know I might sound like I'm overstating it, but if people siphon off too much, that's a really big problem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
One, that's alarming, and two, it completely makes sense and jibes with just the anecdote. I always ask my younger cousins and friends and show fans questions like this, and I don't think any of them have said they want a kid. Some of the more sort of conservative or religious people are like, yeah, I want to have five kids because I grew up in a family of eight.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's like, oh, you're only having five? It's one of those. But my cousins and stuff, they're like, no, why would I have kids? My life is really good right now. And I hope they change their mind. But when I was 20-something, I said, yes, definitely, I want to have kids. So did my wife. She was always like, yeah, I definitely want to do this. My parents were quite similar.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
With a lot of this, I think it's hard to update our beliefs to match the new facts at hand. So I can see a lot of people just saying, there's still so much work to do with racial equality and with women's rights, and they are correct on that. But I think it's hard to say men need help and then update our belief structure to match that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Richard Reeves, thank you very much. That was an awesome ending. I didn't want to step on you. I hope that was where you wanted to land it because it was great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Thanks, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
You're about to hear a preview trailer of our interview with Mike Rowe, host of Discovery's Dirty Jobs and Returning the Favor, on why the advice follow your passion is complete BS.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
For more with Mike Rowe, including a behind-the-scenes look at some of his shows, and why we shouldn't view a blue-collar career pursuit as a cautionary tale, check out episode 264 right here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. I want to be clear again, this is not supposed to be something sort of anti-women. I know some people, they love to be offended.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Those people that do this for sport, they're going to look for something wrong with this episode. I will finish with this. The U.S. economy is $2 trillion larger than it would be without women. That is great for the country all around. Again, this episode is not about what women are or are not doing. They are doing great. But this episode is about where men are actually falling behind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Nobody expected gender equality in the other direction. There's actually a bigger gender gap now than there was when Title IX was passed in the other direction. That's pretty serious business. And I'm not saying we need to get rid of any of these reforms. I'm just saying us guys, we need to catch up. We need to pay attention to each other. We need to help each other out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
And men are even much more likely to drop out of school at every level. Additionally, one in four boys is diagnosed with some sort of learning or developmental disability. That is a lot. One in four. Holy moly. Seems like the system is the problem, not necessarily the diagnosis here. Look, I've got some ADD. I'm able to do quite a bit, if you haven't noticed. So far, so good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I made it through a top law school. I practiced on Wall Street. Now I've got a little podcast that some of you all seem to enjoy here and there. Turns out I just can't sit still for hours on end listening to somebody talk about calculus equations. I am not really convinced that that's a disability, but, you know, I'm no doctor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
All things Richard Reeves will be in the show notes at JordanHarbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show, all at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support this show. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, comes out most Wednesdays. It's practical. It's specific.
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1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, and your relationships. In under two minutes, we like to make things snappy. And if you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It is a great companion to the show. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Don't forget about Six Minute Networking as well over at SixMinuteNetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show, it's created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends and you find something useful or interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who's interested in how men are falling behind, what we can do about it, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Thank you for watching.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It would be different if it was like, hey, most men are just going to trade school, but they're still making six figures. There's a lot of plumbers, electricians and other experts or whatever. That's kind of the myth. Yeah. That's what people say. That's just not true anymore. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. That's kind of what I was hoping was true, I guess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
When I read about the statistics for college, I thought, oh, well, maybe more men are just getting apprenticeships or something like that. Yeah. But that's not the case.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
A single friend at all. Does that mean even online? Or like they just mean no real life friends? No friends at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
They're dating 40-year-old guys, but whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
I can see that. Women's role in the household has expanded to provider, of course, as well as caring for children. Men's role has not necessarily expanded similarly to also caring for children. Look, obviously there's stay-at-home dads. You don't have to email me and tell me you take care of your kids. I get it. But it's probably not quite the same scale.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Here with me is Richard Reeves, author and social scientist. He's also a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and president of the American Institute for Boys and Men. Didn't know that existed? Kind of glad it does. Today, we're talking about the gender gap. Probably not the one you're thinking of. Well, actually, it is the one you're thinking of.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's not a very actionable game plan. Yeah, and we'll get to toxic masculinity later, whatever that means. But it is, there's this evolving masculinity, but Your masculinity has to evolve. Okay, tell me what that means. Oh gosh, I don't know. Figure it out, bro. And good luck out there. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
Right. Yeah. We're really not doing a great job. Those of us that are trying are also overshadowed by grifters who are like, oh, I can come in and take advantage of this. But you've mentioned that men are often treated as malfunctioning women, essentially. Can you explain what this means? I love that idea, that concept. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's just kind of upside down from what you might assume. It turns out that men are falling behind women in pretty much every area, at home, at work, and at school, and the gap is only growing. Today, we'll explore what this crisis looks like, particularly in areas like education, work, mental health, and beyond. I actually found this episode both alarming and enlightening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
This explains so much of the problems that I had in school. I've got two kids now. One's five. My boy is five and a half. My daughter is three. And I will tell you right now, my daughter's probably more ready for school than my son, or at least they're close. And he's two and a half years older than her, almost twice as old. And it's crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
We'll say, okay, put on your socks and shoes and put your jacket on. And my three-year-old daughter will have a little bit of trouble just physically putting it on. And then she'll be by the door and my son will be playing with matchbox cars. And it's, hello, we told you to put your socks and shoes on. And then 10 minutes later, he's got one sock on and he's looking for a snack. And it's like,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
In certain respects, yes. But also, I can really relate to this because as a kid, I was the exact same way. I mean, they were like, oh, he's got attention deficit disorder and all these things. And it just turns out that, OK, maybe that's true. But also, it just turns out it was a boy. Hello. All the boys were like that. Come on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1126: Richard Reeves | Rethinking the Purpose of Modern Masculinity
It's, I have to just realize that he's so young that I'm essentially his external prefrontal cortex that's operating outside of his body.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
There's a video for people who want to make changes similar to this. You say a better question than am I ready to change is do I wish I were somebody who wanted to change? Can you bring the difference into the foreground here? I've never heard this before. And also, it seems weird to ask, do I wish I were somebody who wanted to change? Because isn't the answer kind of always yes?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It's anxiety that feels real, but is ridiculous because half of that email is like, I'd like to pitch this financial planner for your show. And it's like delete. But it still feels real.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, my trainer knows a lot about exercise and that's the main reason I'm working out with him. But the other reason is it's really easy to lollygag when you're working out by yourself. You half-ass it and then you leave when you're bored. Yeah, absolutely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I love this. It's scary to admit that you want to be a different person. I think, because it feels shameful. Yeah, but just about everyone does. Yeah. So why lie about it? There's a shame element maybe involved or like you can be a different person, which is actually empowering if you think about it. It's just that, wow, that's going to take a lot of work to become a different person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
But for people who are hell-bent on self-actualization and personal growth, you're already becoming a different person. People say every seven years, every five years, every 10 years, whatever it is. You're already essentially, in many ways, a fundamentally different person than I was, let's say, before I started to value my health. Not just work out, but value my health.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I was in denial before that. I look at photos and I'm like, oh my gosh, how did that happen? Luckily, about 11 or 12 years ago now, I went to one of those executive health screenings. Have you ever done one of these? No, but I'm somewhat familiar with them. You get like a DEXA scan, which is a bone density and fat scan, and they take your VO2 max and they weigh you. And I was like 40% body fat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I was 33 years old, pre-diabetic. My lean mass is like 127 pounds, but I weighed like 192 or 193. I mean, it was ugly. And I was like, but I'm not that fat. And the doctor was like, you are going to get diabetes. You're going to get this. This is going to happen. You're probably going to die early. Or you can do all of this totally different stuff that you have never done.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
These markers will all change. And you're young. You can and should do this. I was on blood pressure medication. Dude, 33 is on blood pressure medication. And they're like, you're never gonna be able to stop taking these. And the guy who did the screening is like a really well-respected doctor. And he goes, look, I'm not your primary care physician. You should definitely not need those.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
There's no reason for you to need those. That's horrible. Get yourself in shape. And so it took me a few more years of farting around. I'm gonna work out on my own. I'm gonna eat a little bit less. And then when I finally started to actually value my health, I look back at that other person and I'm like, what is wrong with you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Like, who is that idiot who's just like, I'm going to eat whatever I want, do whatever I want. What are you thinking? And now I value other things in my life in a totally different way that you can sort of change fundamentally who you are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And the reason I'm bringing all this up is because I think there's a lot of resistance to, you can't just become a different person that's wishful thinking, or you play the hand that you're dealt. And I just don't necessarily always believe that you're stuck where you are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It is. Everybody in the developed world has this feeling. They call it the Sunday scaries. Have you heard of this? Yeah. For people who don't know what this is, Sunday night comes around and you're like, oh, I got work on Monday. Oh, the Turner account. The boss is going to, oh, we have that meeting. I've got to like make sure my... PowerPoint slides are good. I got to do that at 8 a.m.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That's fascinating. I love that. And I'm going to ruin it by switching gears into OnlyFans addiction because this is such a juicy, I shouldn't say funny. It can be tragic, but it's also it's such an odd 2024-ish phenomenon. I got a letter on Feedback Friday, which is our advice segment of the show, where a woman who does OnlyFans, she was our listener.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
She finds out that this person who's sending her and paying her to do some pretty like kinky, gross stuff. And I'm not kink shaming. She said this is like really denigrating and gross stuff that this guy was having her do. But she's like, well, he's paying me a lot of money. She finds out it's her friend's husband who's a devout Jehovah's Witness. And it just ruined their marriage and everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And he was clearly addicted to it, right? It wasn't good for him. This wasn't something he wanted to be doing. It just ruined his marriage. But what was more weird for her was his arousal seemed almost like it was the social element of the relationship. Despite all the weird stuff he was having her do, it was actually the fact that he had like an intimate connection with her in this way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And I know a lot of people are doing this. They're being intimately connected or they're chatting with who they think is this person on OnlyFans. And it's this bizarrely 2024 kind of phenomenon.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
3% to 11% sounds insanely high. You mean 11% of the population in 2010 was addicted to porn? It's higher than that now, I assume? That's crazy. Yeah, so it's crazy. 49% to 75%.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And so you're preloading all the stuff that you have to do and it's causing you anxiety because it's not time to do it yet. If you're doing it, you probably feel better. Yep. But it's basically worry, but it's like the other side of the worry coin.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That is very alarming. In fact, there was so much talk of porn addiction that I was basically like, I'm just never going to watch porn again. And I had absolutely no problem with that. It was it was actually really easy. Most of it is dumb. I don't know if you've ever seen it, Dr. Kanoja. It's actually mostly garbage and silly and ridiculous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I found it as a 44-year-old man pretty easy to just be like, I'm never going to use this again. The fact that there are maybe 70% or whatever that number was of people who say that they probably can't stop or that they would have trouble stopping, it's beyond alarming. You can't overstate it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I see where you're going with this. The social element of being able to say, good morning to your favorite, whatever, OnlyFans person. That is the circuit of like, hey, I'm connected to this person. We're talking about our day. She's asking how I am. That doesn't happen in my real life because I sit around coding all day or playing games. And then it's like, dot, dot, dot, almost an afterthought.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
After 11 p.m., you're watching some videos of her, I don't know, getting railed by her boyfriend or whatever the hell you're paying for. But like, it hits you. All these different switches as if they're a real person that's really in your life that really cares about you. And that's more than just watching a video.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Jeez, does not sound healthy, doctor. As long as you pay money, this person does what you want. All you got to do is pay for it. Oh my gosh. That's a dirty secret though, right? Yikes. Maybe I should start an OnlyFans. I already have a parasocial relationship going with many of my show fans. No videos though, because that might be a deal breaker for a few of these folks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I will never show you anything below the belt. How's that? All right, here's my money. It's scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Right. I'm never going to show you anything below the belt unless you give me like 10 grand, in which case, yeah, there might be a dick pic coming your way. Just saying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
The person who's addicted to OnlyFans, right? You're talking about it. Yeah. I see. Oh, yeah. And the flip side, too. That's a different podcast. Now help me support my OnlyFans addiction by purchasing one of the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, creators every single week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build something similar for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. I know you're not booking for a podcast, but this will help you in your personal life,
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1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
your professional life in a very down-to-earth, non-cringy way, no awkward strategies or cheesy tactics, just practical exercises that will make you a better connector, better colleague, a better friend, and a better peer. In six minutes a day is all it takes. Many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
The course is free over at 6minutenetworking.com. All right, back to Dr. K. This is so damn fascinating. But what do people do if they find themselves in this trap? Because when it's an addiction, right, you don't just say, hey, you know what you should do? Stop chatting with the person who's actually just an Indonesian chatbot agent, not the girl in the video.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
You have to stop being intimate with this person because it's a trick. It's an illusion, right? We tend to think so.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Because I used to feel this way about working out. Oh, man, I got my workout tomorrow. It's leg day. It's going to be really hard. Now I look forward to it, but it took three years. But with email or other work, I don't know, I'm 44. I still don't go, I have so much opportunity to do email tomorrow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It's going to be great because the outcome is there's just more email later, whereas the outcome of fitness is I feel and look good, which is kind of nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, so at first I thought, oh, a trainer's going to yell at you and demean you until you puke. So that went away after the first week because my trainer's actually really good and that's not actually what good trainers do. They don't just yell at you and tell you you're a piece of crap and demean you and make you vomit in your living room.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That was the first change and that kept me going for at least the first year or two. And then I think later... Just the positive association that I had with having a good workout, reaching the edge of my ability, but never having a heart attack as a result or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And then looking in the mirror and going, I lost 40 pounds of fat and I gained 20 pounds of lean mass or whatever it is. That was pretty awesome. And that itself becomes addicting, probably because there's a visible and even measurable result. But with email, the visible result is zero inbox for 13 seconds if you're lucky. And then everything floods back in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
You're going in with that handicap, right? Absolutely. All right. I'm already down one because I'm not the person in the pictures and they're not the person in the pictures. But I'm not thinking about that. I'm not thinking we're starting on even keel because we're both down one. I'm just thinking about how crappy I look compared to this fake AI version of myself on the Internet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And then the result is, I don't know, I guess some stuff got done. It's hard to quantify. Certainly in there, some of those were important, but most of them weren't. And then it just starts over again. So, yeah, maybe that's the difference.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I'll be honest, Feedback Friday, where people write in with these really serious problems, one of the main things people like about it when we did a survey and what we see on our subreddit is people go, wow, other people have really serious problems, my life isn't so bad, and I'm rooting for them to be better because we're all humans, we're all helping it, like Jordan and Gabriel are helping them, and I want them to be in a better situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It's actually quite healthy. And also I think interviewing people who have made a giant mess of their lives, you know, like Sammy the Bull or Mafia Hitman, That doesn't hurt either. Right. Because you realize that not everybody's Richard Branson or Alok Kanoya.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah, it wasn't super conscious at the time. It just sort of evolved that way. That's what happens when you answer hundreds of fan mails and you actually listen to your audience instead of ignoring them. You find that they guide your work in a really positive way most of the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I've heard you say something along the lines of undiagnosed ADHD is causing depression for thousands of adults. Is that accurate? I don't want to misquote you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That makes me so sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional extreme athlete, Emmy-nominated comedian, hacker, pirate, or special operator. Apparently they're still pirates. Or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That is a really great explanation. And also, man, as a parent of two small children and as a guy who had undiagnosed ADHD until college, that really hits. I did not get invited to birthday parties, but I also think my ADHD is nowhere near as severe as a lot of other people's.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And when I meet other ADHD people to look at their coping strategies and stuff like that, it's like, oh my gosh, you are on another level. I've got a friend who's a very successful fitness entrepreneur. She has an assistant and one of that person's jobs is to text her things she has to do. And I'm like, don't you just use a calendar? She's like, yes, but I need someone to text me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And she showed me screenshots of her assistant texting her. It's you have a call in one hour. You have a call in half an hour. You have a call in 15 minutes. That call is in five minutes. That call is in two minutes. Your call is now. Are you on that call? Are you sure you're on that call? If you don't answer me, I'm going to assume you're not on that call.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And that is for every appointment in her calendar. She does that for everything because she will forget
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I remember I was doing pretty well in business and I was doing pretty well. I just met my wife and stuff like that. So I wasn't super depressed or anything like that, but I certainly wasn't feeling as good as I feel now at 44. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Really? Because we can multitask like crazy because we don't have a choice? Yeah. What's the reason?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
This explains so much about how my days look as well. This makes complete sense. I'm proudly sort of unemployable in any other person's business, I suppose. But for what I do now, being able to function and do a conversation while producing a show, while running the business and switching from, you need to rehearse this thing. Now you need to review this document. Now you have a phone call.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Now you have a show, which is essentially a performance. And then my hobbies are like voice acting and video games and boxing. And it's like, I could do all of those things in one day. And it's not weird to shift between those activities.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
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1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
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1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
What are some of the easiest things that we can incorporate in our lives that give us a high return on maybe happiness, energy, et cetera, relative to the effort that it takes?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, definitely. When I go through 150 emails or more, I feel accomplished, similar to having worked out that day. But somehow I don't look forward to the emails, but I do look forward to the working out. So what's going on there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Maybe they're more in touch with themselves and they realize they're in the wrong career. That's what I think really happens.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
This is like 90% of lawyers. You go to undergrad and you do well and then you're like, crap, I don't know what to do for work. And then you go to law school and you're just like, well, there's going to be a lot of money in this. And you become an investment banker or a lawyer. And then you turn 27 a few years later and your brain is fully developed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
You're like, what the actual hell am I doing in this office doing this job? This is insanity. And you move.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, I want to help people and make a bunch of money and have my parents finally love me because they always wanted me to be a doctor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
At least this person's being honest. Right. Man, I'm so curious what you think of psychedelics and the use of psychedelics in treating mental illness or even just for self-actualization and personal growth. I know those are two very different use cases.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I worry when I hear about people using these either without any supervision or their shaman who's running their ayahuasca ceremony in the middle of nowhere six hours away from the nearest hospital was a stockbroker a month ago. That kind of stuff. And I'm not even exaggerating. I've got a buddy who had a really bad ayahuasca experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And he was like, yeah, we went into the woods and we did it with eight dudes in one room in a cabin laid out on yoga mats on the floor. And I jumped out the window into the woods and they couldn't find me because the shaman was high, too. And then I finally hit a highway and turned around and came back. I'm like, in the winter, you went outside. You ran until you found a highway through the woods.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And somehow you find your way back to the cabin. And of course, everybody was like, dude, where did you go? We couldn't find you. He could have died doing that. And they were, again, hours away from the nearest hospital if somebody has a seizure or whatever. Just absolutely insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
The realization that I need a virtual assistant. That's what's come out of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Right. Because in meditation, there's no real shortcut, but just downing a bunch of a substance, it just drops you right out of the airplane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I did some breath work a couple of weeks ago with people where you're just like inhaling, exhaling, inhaling, exhaling. And it was apparently 75 minutes long. For me, it seemed like it was about 15 minutes long. At the end, I was like, this is kind of some BS. What is this? And then I just started like massive emotional release. It was very interesting. I couldn't stand up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
People who listen to the show are going to be like Jordan, because I am not the woo woo guy. I'm the guy who's like, whatever, this is dumb. And I was like disoriented and physically unable to stand. It was wild experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Is it Sisyphus in the boulder? Is that the guy that's holding up the boulder? And it keeps sliding down. And that guy's already jacked because he's a Greek god. But let's say that he wasn't. If he was like, man, my shoulders are starting to look really good after pushing this boulder, maybe he wouldn't be so miserable. But that's what email is, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Oof, yeah. Yes, thank you for that disclaimer. I think there's a lot of people who think they can just learn this from YouTube, and it's a little scary. I'm curious what you think of the backlash against talk therapy these days. I'm a huge proponent of therapy. I recommend it all the time on the show, but good therapists are very hard to find.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And there seems to be this impossibly rare balance of a therapist who will get you to open up and talk about your feelings and your issues, but also actually help you accomplish your goals and not just keep you on the couch for... I don't know, two decades complaining about your mom or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It's the boulder and you're never building anything as a result so far. Or at least that's not how I'm looking at it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Okay, I'm not the only one. I'm glad to hear you admit this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
You're like, why am I tearing up? This is weird. It's funny because society does this to us, right? It's super embarrassing. You're watching The Lion King and you're like, oh man, I hope that guy doesn't die. I'm going to lose my mind. And then it happens and you're just like, I have to go to the bathroom because I'm going to cry right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Oh, my God.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Right. You basically have to look and this person's $300 an hour and this person's $50 an hour. Okay, which one can I afford? They're probably different. But that's nothing. That's marketing. That's the area where they live. I mean, I've gone through a bunch of therapists. Some were great in past years and some are great now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
But I will tell you it's often I'm hitting that switch therapist button a few times when I select therapists.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
No, a good therapist guides you there and holds your feet to the fire, but in a way that keeps you coming back, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It's like a trainer, right? If you barf, you might not come back, but maybe you're just really out of shape. And when you work out in any reasonable way, you barf and you just got to push through that. I see what you're saying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
This makes sense. Yeah, I basically, I look forward slash dread therapy and training sessions. And I guess that's the balance you need to have. But I'm also used to pushing through discomfort and finding results on the other end. And if you've never done that before, therapy and working out and anything you do in life is going to be hard, man, I think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
So what can someone do to get the most out of therapy? I don't think we're probably asking that enough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Jordan, have you thought about making YouTube shorts? Yes, actually 50 times today because that's how many times I've gotten this email. Yes, it's true. And I see what you're saying. So he's got a pretty good direct link where he goes, look, I send 5,000 cold emails over these hundreds of hours. And 13 of them result in six-figure clients through the year.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That's interesting. Yeah, I guess you're absolutely right. That's something I'm going to have to remember as well. I selfishly wanted to ask, as a parent of two young kids, what does the research say slash what do you think about screen time? Because my kids, they watch iPad, but they learn so much stuff from it. They're learning different words. They're learning about how things work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
I'm always blown away by what they seem to learn from that. But whenever I look at screen time research, I don't find a whole lot of clinical research. I just find parents shaming other parents on Instagram or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
It's really hard for most of us, myself included. For example, fan mail is a big part of the mail that I get, which is, look, hashtag blessed, right? It's good to have people telling you how awesome your show is or something like that in your email. When I was a lawyer, I didn't get a ton of that, as you might imagine. But also, it's hard to go, wow, I just answered 100 really nice people online.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
This makes so much sense. I always worry that kids who get a ton of screen time are being raised maybe, but maybe by disengaged parents, maybe that disengagement is actually the thing causing the adverse outcomes that people say is caused by the screen. So it's not the iPad. It's the fact that dad works until 9 p.m.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
every night and doesn't always come home and mom works during the day and she gets home late and then she's got to deal with running the whole household and gets no help or there's a substance issue. Like maybe it's not Cocomelon that's causing the damage here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Thanks once again for doing the show, man. You got a ton of wisdom to share. I really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, likewise, Jordan. Thank you for being here. Ever find yourself trapped in a cycle of always wanting more, never feeling content?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show, where Scare City Brain author Michael Easter unravels the mysteries of our primal drives and how they can be both our downfall and our salvation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
, , , , , . . . .. B B B B G G G G G P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P and
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That did something for my business because it really kind of didn't. It did something for my ego only. But like, yeah, the marginal difference between doing 10 of those and 100 of those is really tiny, right? Like I get one nice letter. It's really nice. I get 100. I have 100 emails.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And it's nice to talk to these people like I enjoy it at some level. And so when I get the email back, I'm like, oh, this nice person with this funny story wrote me back. So I enjoy that. But yeah, it's still running on the treadmill. It's still an extra step on the treadmill. Whatever. Now I just feel like I'm complaining about something most people would kill to have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, I suppose most of my emails are nice, except for the YouTube shorts pitches. I'm never going to make YouTube shorts. And if I do, it's not going to be with you, person who's sending that email. So just don't bother. They're never going to listen because I'm on a list. You touched on this a little bit earlier. I'm exaggerating here. This email is not traumatic, but trauma is so fascinating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And I've heard you discuss the idea that if we have a traumatic experience, like a car crash, for example, our mind will play a trick on us and convince us that driving is scary and dangerous. I had a friend like that. She got in a car accident, and then we went driving in Morocco in the Atlas Mountains, and she was just frozen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
having a nervous breakdown in the backseat because there's no guardrails and it's Morocco, so they're going 100 miles an hour down a blind curve. I get it. She was losing her mind. But even at home, she said, I've been driving for 30 years and now I can't drive anymore. So it's kind of like your mind is correct that driving is scary, but also you do it so often. Why is it scary again?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Or food poisoning. Maybe that's a better example. You eat out maybe hundreds of times a year. Maybe your favorite is sushi. You eat sushi a dozen times a month maybe, but you get food poisoning once, you're never eating sushi again. Maybe it takes you years to recover. We don't really think, huh, less than 1% of the time I eat this, I get food poisoning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
So trauma hijacks this logical response and puts it into overdrive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
But I'm not doing that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Today, back by popular demand, Dr. Allo Kunoja is here for round two. We dive into trauma and our response to trauma. Something called OnlyFans addiction, which honestly I did not know was a real thing, and it's crazier than you'd think. Also, porn addiction, ADHD, therapy and psychedelics, and more. Dr. K was a huge hit last time. I really enjoyed my conversation with him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
Yeah, that's some bullshit, isn't it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
That's interesting. This reminds me a long time ago, one of my friends, she was very unfortunately, she was assaulted while on a date and she wouldn't date after that, obviously.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
But then she realized, OK, I'm miserable doing this because of this feature, as opposed to a bug of the human mind where the trauma is sort of every time I'm alone with somebody on a date or whatever, this could happen again. So I started to go to the same restaurants and sit where she could see me, but the guy couldn't. And we did that several times.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And the strategy was if she came up and said, oh, my gosh, are you Jordan? I haven't seen you for so long. We grew up together. I would be like, oh, my gosh. Hi. And give her a big hug. And then we would just like leave. Lucky to have a friend like you, Jordan. You know, I just had no life. But also, I didn't want to keep seeing her suffer. That's the truth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
But that never actually needed to happen. Basically, she just went out on a bunch of nice dates with nice guys and had nice dinners. Didn't feel scared because... If the guy did anything, she was literally looking right at me and he was going to get choked probably if he tried to do anything. Plus, we're in a public place, so it was just an easier sort of thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
And then she was like, hey, I don't really need you to show up anymore. And I remember being like, we were really happy about that because it was like, hey, I can actually go to this Italian restaurant and not have a panic attack that I'm going to get attacked and, you know, happily married. That was her sort of self-designed stimulus response, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
She kind of had to desensitize herself to this thing most of us consider normal that to her was an existential threat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1114: Dr. Alok Kanojia | Breaking the Cycle of Digital Dependence
So here we go, round two with Dr. Allo Kunoja. I got to get my energy going, man. It's one of those mornings where I'm just like under caffeinated slash I have a thousand unread emails because I just got back from a trip and I'm like vibrating with. It's not actual anxiety because it's not like there's anything actually going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
There's got to be some training class run by experienced undercovers, yeah?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
How do you approach a gang like the Hells Angels? You can't just walk into a biker bar and be like, yeah, transporting meth and guns sure sounds like a good gig. You got a warm introduction at the very least.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Hey, man, thanks for coming back on the show. I know we just had you on, but we had such a good audience response from it. We had a really good, long conversation about your work at the ATF and how you started the undercover operation, but we never actually got into the Hell's Angels stuff. We basically just dipped our toes in it and then bounced off of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
And nobody in the first gang knew that you guys were law enforcement, I assume?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That's true. It's the Nike, the name brand out there, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Now, a lot of listeners were asking after our previous conversation, is there some sort of initiation? Is there a ceremony for admittance to the Hells Angels? There's got to be hazing and stuff like that. A lot of people brought it. There's no way a group or a club like that, as organized as they are, just lets anybody in, which of course they don't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I assume there's hazing in your prospect phase where you're on probation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
If people haven't heard the first couple episodes I did with you, I recommend they do go back and listen to those just so they get a little bit of a basis for some of this, your work in the ATF, outlaw biker gangs. how some of them operate and your undercover work in general. How did you get started doing undercover work?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I don't suppose you can have them take their shoes off when they get into your house. That would be a deal breaker. My wife would never allow that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Because I assume you don't just join the ATF and you're like, okay, so I want to do undercover work. Someone else makes that choice for you probably, right, in the beginning?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, so you get ahead of it by just admitting you don't know what you're talking about. That makes sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That all makes perfect sense. You were undercover for two years, which I think is a pretty long time. Is that sort of objectively longer than usual?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
As always, this podcast is sponsored by Hydroxycut and Unfiltered Cigarettes. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by the Moonshot Podcast. If you've ever wondered how big world-changing ideas go from crazy concept to real-life innovation, you've got to check out the Moonshot Podcast.
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Find it wherever you get your podcasts. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you've got kids, it's also schools, nearby parks, transportation options.
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. It's funny because I just taught this to a class of undercovers recently.
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I don't think I could say which agency, so it doesn't matter. But basically, this stuff works. Yeah, a lot of people think, like, I don't need this. I've been in sales for three years. Cool. I just taught this to, well, again, I can't say who it is, but... They need it so they don't die. So you might want to pick it up because there may be a thing or two in there for you to learn as well.
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
It's down to earth. It is not cringy. It is all practical exercises that'll make you a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend, a better peer in a few minutes a day. And that's all it takes. And many of the guests on our show already subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, back to Jade Obbins. What does a typical day look like when you're undercover? I mean, are you full time hanging out with these guys and doing stuff? I would imagine so.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Jeez, that must have been a huge challenge because not only are these guys probably largely drugged up or whatever, so they have a little bit of extra fuel, but they don't have to get up at four to start the day at six. You do. And then you have the additional stress of trying to keep your cover story intact, whereas they're just living their life, even if it is a challenging 18-hour day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah. Oh, that makes me feel a little bit sick just thinking about it. the amount of stimulants coming off of that must have been terrible. That must have been a hard crash.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Oh, I thought you were going to say that was your wake-up call, but the opposite. It was your denial.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, man, that stuff was dangerous. And I remember taking it in college. Just, oh, it's like a vitamin. It can't hurt you. You can buy it on Amazon or wherever we bought that stuff online. It's like 20 bucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, it's like Tylenol. Okay, you take a couple more than they say you should, whatever. No big deal. You don't think, oh, I'm going to get a heart attack from this. The reason I stopped using it, I wasn't using it like that, but I would take it occasionally. I remember having that and a bunch of soda, which has caffeine in it, and I just went, I got to lay down.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
And I could hear my heart in my ears, and I was like, what causes this? I've definitely drank a lot of soda before. It's not just the soda. And then I thought, oh, I wonder if this hydroxy cut plus the caffeine in the soda is doing something. And I remember I was probably like 19. I feel like I'm going to die. My heart is racing. I'm sweating, but I'm cold. I'm never taking this again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
And who knows how close I came? I really don't even know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
So you mentioned in our last episode, your undercover name was Jaybird Davis and you were like a gunrunner. I'd love to hear more about the gun running backstory. I guess you have to draw on previous experiences to paint a convincing story that is kind of true. And I know you were busting some firearms traffickers in a previous case. Can you tell us about that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, I like that actually. That's how you build wisdom. Hopefully you don't get killed in the process, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
What were some of the more risky moments you encountered during those two years? Surely there were some close calls that you faced.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
To your house where your family lives?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Oh, God, that's f***ing terrifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, this is interesting. The margins on trading guns for, let's say, cocaine, street value, I mean, it's just, you can really arbitrage that. If you have a criminal gang in the United States, they can get guns and can distribute cocaine, for example.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That is something else, man. You guys are just built different. That's for sure. All right. It's time to blow my cover as a shameless capitalist and bring you some great deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every week, it's because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. And if you're not wondering how I book all these great people, I don't really care. I'm shoving my course down your throat. It's at sixminutenetworking.com. It's about improving your relationship building skills.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
It's a free course. It's not cringy. It's very easy. It's not awkward. All of the excuses that you have for doing it are moot. And I'm not going to get into detail on that because that would require actual effort. And I am not going to make that effort.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I'm just going to give you the URL, again, 6minutenetworking.com, and let you know that many of the guests on our show already subscribe and contribute to the course. So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Now, back to Jay Dobbins.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I got to also say, like, being a female and putting yourself in a situation where a lot of just really terrible things can happen to you around guys like this, that is extra fearless. There's just an extra layer there. I know in the book you say you were anyway in the minority of cops who think that women are just as capable undercover as men. Am I reading that right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
The majority of cops didn't, at least at that time, think women could do this job?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
It also seems like if cops think that way, maybe criminals also think that way, which would make women even better for the job. Because if they're thinking they've never said a woman is an undercover, that'd be ridiculous. Then you have another layer of cover before people start to get suspicious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Oh, my God.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I'm going to lighten it up a little bit if I can. Yeah, please do. Does the ATF pay for your expenses? Yeah, I'm sure if you buy some food or something, they pay for it. But you had a bunch of tattoos. Don't they make you or ask you to get tattoos? And it's, I'm not paying 300 bucks for this, this death's head. The U.S.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
taxpayer at least has to pay for it if I'm going to get needled up by the hell's angels.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That's almost a whole sub conversation because they're going to ask you probably what the tattoo means to you. You almost need a cover story about that. You can't be like, wow, this one is my son and this one's my daughter and she loves to play the guitar. You have to be like, yeah, this is something totally different.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
No kidding. Yeah. Wow. You got to think about all these little tells, man. Everything. Yeah, that's crazy. You guys went to some pretty extreme lengths to prove credibility. There's this fake murder of one of the Mongol gangsters. This kind of got you, what, patched into the angels eventually. This was like your official graduation murder. I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I didn't ask about this yet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That's like millions of dollars in payroll over two years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
So the Hells Angels are essentially correct in that it's just too resource intensive to take them down. This operation, which nabs like a couple of guys in one segment of the organization, costs millions of dollars and takes two years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Gee, so even when you do something that you think is going to be the thing that they like the most, you're like, they might also kill us for doing this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I was joking about how you pick the guy who gets covered in pig blood, but I assume, I don't know, it's a funny role either way. I am more curious about the FedEx box. So is there somebody who liaises with an office like FedEx and goes, we need a fake package from Mexico that really looks like it's from Mexico? Nobody drives to Mexico with this thing and then mails it FedEx.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, just you never want somebody that like, my cousin works for FedEx. Let me just run this tracking number through her system. Yeah, you know, this doesn't exist. This is fake. It's not even the right number of digits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, I guess you could just take another package from Mexico and put the label, whatever. I'm sure you thought of all this. What ended up happening with the case? There was some disappointment, I would imagine, with how this shook out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Man, I don't fully understand, of course, what happened there, but I can certainly imagine your frustration. How did your undercover experience in such a dangerous gang change your outlook on life after the experience?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional special operator, national security advisor, economic hitman, or arms dealer. And if you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Your family's house?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, rightfully so. I mean, I can completely understand that. I mean, do you have to worry about them coming after you now? Or is it just too long ago?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I can't defend that. I remember that mess was so bad that even Barack Obama took a punch for that one, right? People were saying, look, how did this happen under your watch? Look how egregious this is. And that was kind of the wake up call for everybody realizing that the guns that the cartels get are actually from the United States. I think many people didn't know that before.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Thanks for coming back on the show, man. We had such a good response to the last one. I know everybody really appreciates it, especially me. You're a great storyteller and you tried to do the right thing. You're continuing to try to do the right thing. It's really admirable. It is a shame that you didn't have support when you needed it, though. I'll tell you that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That's very disappointing to hear. Jay Dobbins, thank you very much, man. Right on. Thank you for having me. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with an undercover ATF agent that infiltrated the infamous Pagans biker gang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
To hear how Ken Croke spent two years risking his life going through initiation in one of the most ruthless biker gangs in the world, check out episode 673 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. All things Jay Dobbins will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Please consider supporting those who support the show. Our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, is a great companion to the show. I invite you to come check it out. It's practical. It'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships. In under two minutes, we strive to make it concise, folks. Almost every Wednesday, jordanharbinger.com slash news is where you can find it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking as well over at 6minutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show, it's created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in these kinds of law enforcement undercover type of episodes, definitely share this one with them. This one's a banger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, I'm sure I'll get emails from people in the audience. But is there anyone out there that can justify, hey, I got 25 AK-47s for legitimate personal use? I guess if you own a gun range, you could buy them and say, we rent these to people who come in and they want to shoot them. And we need this for like bachelor parties. We need 25.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
But other than that, I cannot think of a person who would need 25 of these unless you just have a lot of properties and you want one in every room and every property that you have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults and more. To help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I'm actually not even worried about the people that buy that stuff. I'm just worried that they're going to get robbed by somebody who wants to commit crimes with those weapons. That's my main worry. The guy who makes a YouTube channel showing off his... silenced .50 caliber or whatever machine gun that he mounted to a truck. Like, that's just funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, I assume most of these guys, one, you'd have to make sure they're not home because they're certainly armed. But two, I don't know how it works, but I assume once you start buying weapons like that, don't you have to get a license from the ATF? Certain kinds of weapons, you have to get some sort of permission, right? Some sort of special permission, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That seems quite reasonable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Look, I'm a gun owner as well, so I can relate. There are people that make reasonable arguments against having any kind of list. I don't want to be on a list. As a Jewish person, being on lists is never a comfortable thing for us either. So I get it. I understand not wanting to put your name on a list that makes you a target.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Although you are a federal agent, right? So you have much more leeway about what you can buy and carry, right? Can't you guys carry higher capacity magazines and things like that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Today, Jay Dobbins back on the show. He joined the ATF, that's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, and went undercover in the Hells Angels.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
This might be a little bit outside of the area of your expertise, but what do you think about the cartels being labeled terrorist organizations, foreign terrorist organizations? I don't know if that actually happened or if it was just being discussed, but what do you think of that sort of change in policy?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah. As far as cartels being terrorist organizations, I mean, they murder tens of thousands of civilians in their own country and their products kill hundreds of thousands of people in our country. So I don't have any sympathy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Last time we had him on, we talked about undercover operations, prepping for those in general, a few details here and there, but we didn't really get into the weeds on what it's like to go undercover in the Hells Angels, the most notorious biker gang in the world. In this episode, we're going to do a deep dive on that. I won't spoil it. Here we go with Jay Dobbins.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens because eventually you would think that we're going to end up utilizing the ability to do that. Instead of having Mexican police go and round these guys up and then let them all go because they're on the take, you might see an A-10 just take down an entire plantation of cocaine or manufacturing facility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
I'm curious what the counterarguments are to this. I'm worried about Mexican civilians, obviously, being anywhere near a military operation because being in a war zone is bad. But you could argue that they're already in a war zone. There's just no control or responsible parties involved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
We see these photos online of the CNG cartel and they've got armored vehicles and all kinds of crazy tactical gear and weapons that you expect to see in Afghanistan or like the Gaza Strip. And they're just rolling around in these things in Mexico. They must get a lot of that from the United States. I don't know where they get the armored vehicles or if they make them somehow. I'm not even sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
That's something you would think you'd be able to figure out how somebody gets an armored personnel carrier into Mexico, but maybe not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1137: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Three
Yeah, they wouldn't even hear us coming, I think. They would hear a loud jet engine and that would be the end of that whole convoy that they're taking photos of on Instagram. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. So what kind of training do you get to go undercover? Who runs that? I assume the ATF doesn't just throw you into the deep end.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, they can retool them to take Apple Pay. That's my suggestion. The phone pay. That's only a matter of time anyways, I suppose. Yeah. This kind of reminds me of, I think Darren Brown did this, the illusionist. He's been on the show. One of the things that he or someone else did was he had somebody asking for directions in some place. It was probably at Stanford or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And then he would interrupt them with guys that are carrying a huge backpack.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
painting or drywall or i forget what it was door and then he would switch out the person behind so you've seen this right this he'd switch the person out behind it it gets to the point of ridiculousness where it's like they change a guy with brown hair that looks a little bit like me to another guy with brown hair that looks a little bit like me and then it was like now they're changing it to a guy with no hair now they're changing it to an old man now they're changing it to african-american dude
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And then it becomes like a guy that looks like me and then like an African-American woman. And the person who's talking just doesn't notice that's not the same person that asked for directions. We'll link to this in the show notes because it's insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Thanks for coming back to your semi yearly appearance on the Jordan Harbinger show, man. I love it. I say this every time I think, but we met through our mutual friend, John Levy, who runs the unfortunately named influencers dinners, which he picked that word before it was like a slur influencer. Oh, And he was great at connecting people. And I'm almost sure I've told this before, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It's shocking when you see this video. And again, we'll link to it in the show notes. I want people to go check it out and watch it because you think this either has to be fake and or I would never fall for this. These people all need to get a clue or a cup of coffee or whatever. But then I'm dying to know if it would work on me because I assume that it would.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I assume I would also just not pay attention to who that person is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I'll send you the link. This isn't quite the same thing, but it reminds me of that video where they say, count how many times the basketball is passed back and forth. Same idea. This is the same idea. Bob, the show notes guy is going to have a field day with this one, but we'll link to this in the show notes too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It's count how many times the basketball is passed back and forth and you're counting the basketball and then it's okay. How many of you noticed the gorilla walking in the background and you go, oh, there's no gorilla. And then you replay it and sure enough, there's a guy in a gorilla suit that's just walking in between all the people. It's ridiculous that you don't notice it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And if you don't tell someone to look at the basketball, all they see is a video of a gorilla walking past. Yeah. Because that's what you would obviously notice if you weren't deliberately distracting yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
But somebody had not shown up. And then you and I were tapped to give like a in the pinch five minute TED talk. You did something about the brain and I did something about North Korea because whoever it was didn't make it. They were stuck in traffic or something. Right. And then a woman asked, if this thing with the brain, that means telepathy must be real.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
This must be part of what magicians rely on, right? So they're like talking to somebody in the audience like, hey, have you ever been to a magic show? And they're like got a hand behind their back folding something into a paper crane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I didn't notice that. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That is so interesting. And that's, what, thousands of years old? I don't know how old magic is. I assume it's thousands of years old. I assume thousands, yeah. Because, of course, somebody sat around. They had nothing else to do. It's just trying to think of tricks. Except for survive. Yeah, except for survive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, once they were done haunting and gathering, they were probably like, look, it looks like I took his nose off and he believes me. Ha ha! Because mirrors don't exist. Yeah. Tell me about this pain matrix in-group versus out-group empathy thing. This was a little alarming. Yeah. Almost.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I'm like, who's volunteering for that? Like, all right, I really need these 30 bucks. Go for it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And you very diplomatically handled telepathy. So that question was handled without making her look ridiculous, which I thought was nice of you. You've been up to some fun stuff. Tell me about the anti-counterfeiting. I was going to say, tell me about the Benjamins you're printing in the basement at Stanford.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Speaking of counterfeit money, dust off that inkjet and print out some fresh $100 bills and support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by design.com. All right, if you're starting a business or even just thinking about it, let me tell you about design.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It is an amazing set of tools that makes creating a professional-looking logo super easy. All you have to do is type in your business name and industry, and in seconds, it generates thousands of custom logo options for you to choose from.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And these aren't generic kind of meh designs, and it's not that thing where like people in Uzbekistan, no offense, create 8,000 different designs that just kind of look like the Uzbekistan flag. but with your logo somewhere or whatever. These are handcrafted by top designers from around the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And once you find a logo that you like, you can tweak it, change the font, colors, layout until it's perfect, then download everything you need to make your business look polished and ready to roll. And design.com is even more powerful than that. You can generate templates for social media posts, ads, business cards, even websites and way more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
If you already have a logo, you can upload it and instantly get access to thousands of design templates that actually match your brand's look and color scheme. So the tool saves you a ton of time. It lets you focus on growing your business instead of getting stuck in the weeds with marketing materials. They've got a 4.8 star Trustpilot rating. So design.com is legit amazing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It's run by a friend of mine. I know when people are like, ah, you say that about a lot of businesses. I got a lot of friends. What can I say? Popular guy. No, the truth is that this company's been around for a while. I've known Alec for a long time. They really care about their customers. Try it for free at design.com slash Jordan. This episode is also sponsored by Progressive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there, and just hoping it all works out? Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll help you find options within your budget.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Try it today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Quick bump for Six Minute Networking. This is our relationship building course. It is non-cringy. It teaches you how to be a better networker. That's a gross word. Nobody wants to be a better networker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
How about a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend, a better peer? In a few minutes a day, and many of the guests on the show already subscribe and contribute to the course, come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, now back to David Eagleman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I feel like we're seeing a little bit of this now in discussions, at least online, about the L.A. fires, right? So a lot of my friends were in the Pacific Palisades. They lost their homes. Other people are like, my house is heavily damaged but still there. And I feel really bad for them because they're my friends and they lost their homes and their kids don't have any toys anymore.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah. It seems obvious that you wouldn't want to talk about anti-counterfeiting efforts. I guess they don't want an organized crime group to get to you and be like, we will pay you $10 million if you do this one thing for us. Put in this thing that we happen to be doing with our counterfeits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Imagine young kids and they lost all their clothes, all their toys. It sucks for the adults, but they can wrap their heads around it. They're trying to comfort their children. It's a terrible situation. But online, people are like, ah, who cares? Bunch of rich people lost their house. Or they're like, good, now they know what it feels like when nobody wants to help us when we have problems.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And I'm just like, these people just ran a fundraiser for... I don't know, whatever, the hurricane victims or something like that. And you're glad because you lost your house in the hurricane and you think that these people don't care about you. Therefore, you're glad their house is gone. I just see tons and tons of that. Now, granted, people are not their best selves on the internet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So I take it with a little bit of a grain of salt. Some of them are probably 15-year-old kids who don't know what they're talking about or just pushing buttons. But I see it and I hear about it from other people too. In fact, I text from another friend of mine who I was really disappointed in. I said, oh, did you hear that so-and-so lost his house? And he goes, yeah, well,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
The place wasn't that great anyway. And I'm like, it was on the shore of the Palisades. Like, it was a pretty nice place. And I'm sure he's pretty upset about it. Maybe show a little empathy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That's a better example. People were like, OK, I totally understand why people felt that way. But also, he did have kids. If you can't feel bad for him, at least feel bad for his kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I'm not saying I can relate to it. I just I can wrap my head around why they're upset if their mother died because she couldn't get chemo from an insurance company. You might pin that on that one guy. It's not fair to do that, but I can rationalize how other people have done that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
With fires, those people don't know you exist and you didn't know they existed until they told you their house burnt down and your first reaction is good. Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And we'll pay you or threaten you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That makes me feel a little better because you're right. There's probably something where, I don't know, if something happened in, I can't even think of a country that I don't like and I'm hesitant to name one, but you're right. My gut reaction might be like, that's what you get for, well, who am I? I'm a terrible person for thinking that. Exactly. Women and children, what am I doing?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I would think less of myself for a minute after that, but you're right. I wouldn't probably go right about how they deserved it on the internet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
When all those Hezbollah pagers blew up, I was not super upset for a long time. I was like, ha, but then you hear that like it blew up in their daughter's face and then you're like, oh, that's terrible. But yeah, I wasn't like, oh, those poor Hezbollah terrorism supporters, Hamas or whatever. I don't feel a ton of sympathy for the actual people who were guilty of terror to get blown up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
But yeah, there was a lot of collateral damage. And then you feel bad because you're like, that guy could have just been a doctor who was associated with Hezbollah. That sort of sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
But here's the thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, totally.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So it's just a matter of which in-group and out-group you belong to. Yeah, that's interesting. And of course, we care more about people in our group. I think there's something, I don't like admitting that about myself. I can't be alone in that. I can't be alone in being like, not me. Surely most of us think that way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, I was going to say they're mostly thinking about the group that they're in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah. I don't even do bad things. And I still feel like I'm constantly rationalizing behavior where I'm like, I really shouldn't let myself go on this, but I'm feeling awful about it. I'm just going to make up an excuse and then never do this again. Yeah, exactly. I do that all the time, unfortunately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
There's a sort of similar term. It's not exactly the same thing. I'm trying to remember the name. I think it's called moral license, where people say, well, I drive an electric car so I can fly more because I'm not using carbon when I drive. Something along those lines. And it seems like a stretch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Wow. Is it easier, I wonder, to counterfeit euros or dollars?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And yet, of course, people like you test for these things and they find that, I don't know how you make that connection if somebody doesn't make it directly, but they've found that over and over. And I remember there was something that people who drive electric cars slash Prius, Prii, Priuses, that they do, and they found that they were correlated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And either it's the hypothesis that it's moral licensing, but there's something here that's similar to what you're saying. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I walked this morning out extra far because I took the dog out so I can eat these 300 calories.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, we all do that for sure. Yes. It's just it's uncomfortable to admit that we do that. And it's much more comfortable to admit we do that with a chocolate chip cookie than it is to be like, I'm only a little bit racist against this one group because and it's I don't want to write that down on any surveys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That's a terrible thing to think about yourself. Yeah. So then you have to go the extra mile when you philosophize about it because otherwise you're a racist. And that's a really uncomfortable thing to admit to yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Really? Yeah, apparently those exist in the South. North Korea is supposed to be making those, I think. Super notes? Jesus. Yeah. Which makes sense, right? Because they can dedicate a billion dollars to trying to figure out how to do this. God. And there's no authorities are breathing down their neck at all because it's the whole regime is just isolated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, that's for sure. True. I think whenever you watch these documentaries about the super racist folks, there was one documentary recently. This I think she's a Muslim British gal. She did a documentary about going to all these very like. Deep South neo-Nazi things. And she was like, but you guys and I get along. And like, well, you're different, the rest of your kind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And it was just so fascinating to watch them do these gymnastics around her because they liked her. She was nice to them and they were nice to her. And they were like, you're one of the good ones. And she's like, I'm very... very average, run-of-the-mill Muslim girl from the UK. And they're like, that's not true.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And they refused to recognize that they were normal, middle-of-the-road, secular-ish Muslims. The dance they did around her, that was the fascinating part of the documentary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Have you ever heard of Daryl Davis? He's this African-American dude, great jazz musician. And I won't say it's a hobby because that's a weird way to phrase this, but he's been on the show. What he did one day, he played jazz at a club and there were these Klu Klux Klan guys there. And one guy was like, can I have a drink with you? And he's like, sure. And then the guy told him he was in the KKK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And he's like, okay, what's about to happen? Because if you haven't noticed- I'm black. And the guy was like, yeah, but you play like Jerry Lewis. And he's I did play with Jerry. These guys got acquainted. And like over years of talking, this Klansman turned in his robe and his I just can't hate black people anymore. It doesn't make any sense because of my interactions with Daryl.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So it's like nuclear program funded by counterfeiting. So why bother counterfeiting the euro if there's more US dollars in circulation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So he got that robe. And then he's done this 50 times with 50 different Klansmen. He's de-radicalized them by just becoming their friend and not being judgy. And it's weird because it's crazy, right? Because this guy will have a daughter who gets married and like Daryl's there and half the wedding is Klansmen or former Klansmen or people who are the brothers in the Klan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And it's like, okay, so the best man is this black dude here. What's going on? He's a fascinating guy because of his level of empathy and his ability to... Take shit from people, I guess, is part of it. I mean, he's an incredible human.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah. I see.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So the anti-counterfeiting, why did they tap you for this? What are they looking for?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Then you relegate me to the outgroup. That's interesting. So if we can figure out how to get the social media algorithm to make the in-group kind of everyone-ish, that would change society. But instead, the algorithm is everyone's in the outgroup except for the people that have my particular beliefs on these particular issues.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, you're not going to prevent those people from getting health care because they like Dachshunds instead.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And then you emphasize that stuff. Good luck with that mission. I hope you get to do that. The counterfeiting thing was interesting, but changing society via this way would be absolutely incredible. Okay, I'm going to shift gears here a little bit. Can we ever upload our brains to the internet? Because my body, I work on it a lot. It's a losing battle. The hair turns gray no matter what.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
You get those weird dots on your skin or whatever, no matter what. It's harder to lose weight or keep it off. I'm not going to say I gave up on the body, but I'm aging and that's that. But my brain, so far, so good, man. Maybe I should freeze a snapshot now and upload it if that's a thing. But can I ever upload my brain?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It doesn't have to be the internet, but can I ever upload a replica of what's in there into the digital sphere? Great question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I don't know how I feel about that. Yeah, like I'm not doing that bad where I need to be euthanized right now with my brain uploaded. Yeah. Yeah, so then you would only want to do it when you were about to maybe die or you're living your last few days in a hospital bed with a morphine drip and it's like, okay, hit the upload now and transfer me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I guess you'd have to kill the person right away because otherwise there's two of you, one who's in a hospital bed with a morphine drip and then one that's in the computer that's like, why are you keeping my body alive?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, exactly. Whereas if I do it just 100 milliseconds before, then it's a transfer. Jeez, that's crazy. It's so not necessarily right around the corner. One thing that was fascinating that programmers could change time for the simulation that's in the digital sphere. So right now, time just goes however nature and I'm not really sure how time works in the brain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That's a whole podcast probably, but there's no physical body to maintain. So in theory, in the digital sphere, I could just spend the next billion years in one Earth year. Hanging out with all my friends and one big long party consuming things that would normally make my body hurt. Hey, there's nobody to worry about now and just enjoy myself in the matrix.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional Russian chess grandmaster, Hollywood filmmaker, cold case homicide investigator, or money laundering expert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
speaking of reading minds I can tell that you are absolutely desperate to hear from the amazing sponsors who support this show we'll be right back This episode is sponsored in part by The Defender. We all have those big goals that seem just out of reach, right? But the truth is, that's what keeps us moving forward. For the people who embrace challenges and explore their way, there's The Defender.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. As a family, we're planning to spend more time away from home and exploring the world. It's been 10 years since we last visited China and a lot has changed since then, obviously. We're excited to take my parents on this journey before mobility becomes a challenge for them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
While we're off exploring, we've been thinking about ways to make our time away even more rewarding and who couldn't use a little extra cash these days, whether it's funding a dream vacation, paying down bills, simply adding a financial cushion. Hosting on Airbnb can be an incredible way to bring in extra income without taking on another job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
With Airbnb's co-host support, earning extra cash on your terms has never been simpler. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support the amazing sponsors who make this show possible. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
We have our AI chat bot there that should help you surface codes, but if it doesn't, you can always email us jordan at jordanharbinger.com. I am more than happy to surface that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with David Eagleman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I guess this is probably one of the only ways we can actually do super wide space travel, though, too, right? Because you can't put a body on a... I don't know how far away things are, but in the cosmos, it's like thousands of light years or whatever it's going to take. Even if we figure out light speed travel, it's going to take centuries for these computers that we send to get there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And in theory, you could put a person's brain in a robot over there, but that's the only way to do it, because otherwise... The whole freezing of the body thing, even that's not going to work over that time span.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That's pretty cool. It seems shockingly informal for how a government would normally go about anti-counterfeiting. Yeah, I met this guy at a conference. We were hanging out in the back, having a couple of pina coladas or whatever, and then I decided to hire him to figure out how to stop counterfeiting these euros.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Every time I learn more about this, I'm like, maybe we really are in a simulation. I don't know. What do you think of that theory?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It's sims all the way down. It seems like there'll be people in our generation when we're older and we're not in our best form and maybe we can't walk. We'll just be living in one of those little simulations. Some of us will be like, I'm not doing that. But the younger generations, they'll probably be almost looking forward to that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And then eventually there'll be a generation that you can't, like with our phones, you just can't pry them away from it because it's better than real life. You mean living in the metaverse as opposed to uploading their brains? Living in the metaverse. Because look, say I'm 85 and I'm like, ah, walking hurts. And a lot of my friends have passed away. I put this thing on and sit on my couch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Not only do I not have to walk, but all my friends are 25 again and we're hanging out. That's a pretty compelling offer. I'll tell you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, it seems compelling even now. And look, you hear about these people who've gone through grief or trauma. Imagine your whole family gets wiped out in a car accident and you're the sole survivor. You can either sit around being depressed and dealing with that, or you could potentially go to one of your favorite family vacations with all of your kids again in this imaginary world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I don't know if that would make dealing with grief easier or harder because they're still there in that way, but maybe there's a way to use that in a therapeutic sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
What great practice that would be. That's actually not bad. You could make all of your teenager, young adult mistakes. while maybe also having a real girlfriend who would be really pissed and jealous. But also then you would go, you know, you could say like, what about this? What about that? You know what? That's not going to go over well with your real girlfriend. Exactly. So don't do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And you're like, oh, thank God I was able to simulate this particular conversation. Yes. That would be interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, smart.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And it can simulate millions of different women's potential opinions. I can just imagine my AI girlfriend saying there's an 80% chance that she finds this argument totally uncompelling and does not believe you at all. So I would pick a different strategy. Interesting. That's fascinating. What about reading someone's thoughts via fMRI? I mean,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That seems like a good use of brain tech, but everyone's brain would have to kind of be the same organization, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Who's going to do that? Yeah, exactly. Oh, come on, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So everyone has the same input and then you're looking at that. So then you would have to measure someone's input for their whole life then, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, that makes sense. If I got a counterfeit $100 bill, unless it was really bad, I would never notice. And it's also kind of not my problem because I'm going to go spend that at, I don't know, a gas station or something. And then they're going to put it in the bag. And then the bank is going to go, oh, crap, this is fake. And then I don't know how it works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Funny, I did so much of that walking in. Exactly. Oh, this word looks cool. It's in the middle of the living room. You must think it's important.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Oh man. Yeah. Because I'm not giving you the full background with each thought. I'm not going, I have to tell my brother who, by the way, is this person, he lives over here and this is what he looks like that none of that happens in that moment. Exactly. So you'd almost have to be able to know all of this person's input that they got through their whole life in order to read their thoughts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And I don't know how you would do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It's imagination, right? Yes, it's creativity. So that doesn't even, that wouldn't even be in the input monitor sensors that you have. Jeez. So yeah, that does not bode well for mind reading technology coming anytime soon. Exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
That's right. Lie detection.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah. So that's true. Yeah. I go through and I remember the time my idiot friend at the U.N. was like, I have a bomb. And then they were like, now we're going to search all you dumb ass kids. Because we know you're joking, but we want to make an example out of you. That was fun. But what about lie detection? Is this in the same boat as mind reading?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It seems like it would have to be because lies are so complicated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
But I think the business loses that money. And if they use the marker and it's a good counterfeit, it's going to work with the marker. I don't think anybody pays attention to this. So somebody just gets screwed later down the line. It's not going to be the person who's selling flowers at the stand on the side of the road who gets it. It's going to be somebody who's going to the bank.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm a terrible liar. So I have all the tells, right? It's like, I started to hurt my face and sweating and fidgeting with my hair and looking at the floor. And it's funny, we did this game like two truths and a lie a while ago at a dinner. And the women at the table were like, you're one of the worst liars I've ever seen. They were laughing at me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And they're like, this is just pathetic. You should never lie. just about anything important.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I suppose they would. I suppose they would, although they probably wouldn't also then start sweating and looking at the floor. They would do that purposely sometimes, sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So now, so I'll let everybody guess as to which one of those is true. Either I'm a great liar or I'm a terrible liar, and you'll find out. With fMRI or whatever, lie detection, I'm trying to think just from a legal perspective. Would you need a court order that says you can invade someone's brain?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So these little tiny, oh, this dollar has a spider in the corner on top of the five. No, unless you're a little kids look for that. Not grown ass adults who are handling a thousand dollars an hour in currency.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah. Yeah. It depends on the police state we have in a thousand years when this technology exists.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, I think the whole premise of that movie was there was three psychic women. That was beyond ridiculous. But I guess that's how they handled that plot hole by being like, yeah, they have supernatural powers. Don't ask too many questions. I know our time is coming up. We have so many other topics for the next one, which is great. Thanks for having me over to your house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It's a fun little change. Terrific. For those not watching on YouTube, we're surrounded completely by human brains and jars that I assume you've taken from other podcasters.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Or I'll do it from my jar. Thank you, David.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show about how technology can augment our brains and allow the blind to see and the deaf to hear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
To learn how it's possible to create completely new superhuman senses, check out episode 655 with David Eagleman on The Jordan Harbinger Show. There is always so much more. I've got to do another one with him later this year. I barely got even through half my notes. I love that though. Love a good high quality problem. Must be exhausting being as fascinating as Dr. David Eagleman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I personally couldn't handle it. Thankfully, I'll never have that problem. All things Dr. David Eagleman will be in the show notes at JordanHarbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, and discount codes, ways to support this show, all at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, comes out pretty much every Wednesday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I'm not going to say every Wednesday, but the idea is to give you something specific and practical that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships in under two minutes. And if you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It is a great companion to the show. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Don't forget about Six Minute Networking as well over at SixMinuteNetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. And the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in the brain, mind reading, uploading our brains to the internet, anything along those lines, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And if you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Let's see, who had control over a large portion of Europe for any period of time? Nobody that you want to put on the money these days. Exactly. I meant Napoleon, for the record. Yeah. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So looking at buildings is confusing for us. Not confusing, but we don't see the small differences and that's part of the problem. And that for faces, we have more neural real estate. Do we know why that is? I got a painting of myself from a sponsor. And my initial reaction was, that doesn't look anything like me. How did they get this so wrong?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
But everybody else, including my wife, was like, what are you talking about? It looks exactly like you. It's totally fine. And then we shared it with my parents. And they're like, oh, it really does. And I was just thinking, are you all insane? This doesn't look like me. So that sort of familiarity with our own face, or maybe the faces of others...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
We just have much higher degree of specificity that we can look at. Because there's two issues in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Neuroscientist Dr. David Eagleman is back on the show. He's been on several times. He's always a huge hit with all y'all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Starting off with podcasting is tough for a lot of people because they always go, I hate the way that I sound. And I always have to tell new podcasters that will eventually fade. And they go, oh, why will my voice change? And I thought, no, you're just going to get so used to hearing yourself in a recording.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
It'll be almost like you're hearing yourself when you talk, but it's going to take a year or two because you need to build up the reps or the hours of hearing your own voice. But yeah, until then, it sounds like the answering machines in the 80s where you go, oh my God, is that what I sound like? This is horrible news.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Today, we're talking about counterfeiting money, why a neuroscientist was brought in to help solve this complex problem that largely relies on our brain's ability to detect counterfeits in the first place. Also, will we be able to upload our brains to the internet? How would that work? Of course, there's a lot that goes into this. Also, some philosophical questions come up as a result.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Yeah, that's interesting. So back to the money, people notice faces more than buildings. Since that's intuitive, maybe? Yeah. thing that we might notice because Loan's like, wait, this doesn't have that little strip on the side. When I shine the UV on it, it's not there. Or they mark it with a marker if you pay with 100 at Chuck E. Cheese to make sure they're not going to counterfeit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
They really just need to be able to look at it and go, eh, that face looks a little bit too cartoony. Maybe this is fake. Exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
So it would have been like a blank white or off-white colored paper with a hologram in the middle and the number 20 on it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I get the logic. They're like, oh, we hired this guy for the science and we were hoping the science would look a little nicer at the end of the day. Be a little bit neater, fit into our bucket more. We were kind of hoping you'd come back with a really simple design that we could print on the side. Yeah, they were probably regretting that. That makes sense though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Blank money with a hologram only sounds like future money. It sounds like something you'd see 100 years from now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
I guess if you probably look at transaction amounts, maybe all that's digital when one company's wiring $300 million to another one. But if you look at the volume of individual transactions, you're right. It's probably like $2 or whatever. The average is probably globally like $4 or something like that. And usually done in cash in exchange for, I don't know, goat milk. or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Because that totally makes sense. The only counterfeit money I've ever had, I went to Cambodia and I was in a non-regular border. I took a boat from Vietnam to Cambodia. And so I was in the middle of the jungle and somebody offered to break money for me. And he gave me a $5 bill that was so obviously fake.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
Who's the real me after that? My body or my virtual self? Do I have to kill one of them? That seems a little creepy. Maybe we'll get into that here on the show. And will we be able to read people's thoughts using fMRI or some other similar technology? Why or why not? And more importantly, when? All this and a whole lot more here today with Dr. David Eagleman. Alright, here we go.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And I could have said something, but I thought, eh, this is kind of a cool souvenir that I got for five bucks. I think It's like dark black ink. The paper's definitely just like trash quality Monopoly money paper. And it looks good. And I could almost surely get rid of it and spend it if I wanted to go to prison. But it's the kind of fake you get in the middle of the jungle in Cambodia.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
But first of all, who's printing $5 bills? Like that's the low rent.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
And they just out of luck or do they have to have somebody be like, this is a 20. Let me fold the corner. Yeah. How does that work?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1123: David Eagleman | Your Prehistoric Brain on Modern Problems
All right, blind listeners, tell me how this works. Tell me how this works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
You're right in the middle of it. You know what's better than being shot in the head and left in a ditch by the hell's angels? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. Look, this is about work stuff, personal stuff. It's going to make you a better connector, a better colleague, a better peer. And it's not cringy. It's not awkward. It's not networky, if I can say that. And six minutes a day is all it takes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. We turned questions on. Somehow the software had turned questions off automatically. Thanks for that. We turned them back on. You can always ask questions in the course there as well. It is free. I don't need your credit card. None of that nonsense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
6minutenetworking.com is where you can find it. Now, back to Jay Dobbins. How do you gain the criminal's trust? That's got to be tricky isn't even quite the word, right? I mean, you show up, you got to be friends with somebody initiated into this thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
And you don't just knock on the door of the Hell's Angels and say like, hey, I'd love to traffic some of those drugs you guys keep running back and forth across the country. That's not going to fly. So where do you begin?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Just visit jordanharbinger.com or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. My guest today joined the ATF, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. A lot of you haven't heard of that, I noticed. And he went undercover in the Hells Angels, the most notorious biker gang in the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
And you've got to bury that, right? Because if you go into it thinking, I've got to keep these guys at arm's length because eventually I'm going to throw them all in prison, you're tying a weight around your leg.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
So you basically have to keep that fear of, they're going to murder me if they figure out that this is BS. And that outweighs... whatever other psychological protections you're maybe subconsciously running in your head?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Yeah. God, the Hells Angels, especially, it's just an understatement to say they're a rough bunch. But tell us what one percenters are, right? Because I think this kind of goes to it, right? They're proud of being these one percenters. Tell us what this means.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
In this episode, we'll discuss what it takes to go undercover, especially in such a dangerous organized crime organization. We'll discover why it's so hard to dismantle an organization like the Hells Angels or any biker gang. We'll also learn about the customs and culture of the Hells Angels. They have a lot of rules. It's actually quite complicated and surprising.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Yeah, it's a fascinating subculture that someone normal would not want to be a part of this. In the book, you discuss you're hanging around these guys before you go undercover or try to even get in the gang. You're hanging around and guys are asking you for favors. Hey, can you kill this guy for money? And you can't be like, no, I don't do that sort of thing, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
So you have to say yes, but then you can't actually do it because you're a cop. So how does all this work, right? How do you say, sure, I'll shoot that guy in the back of the head for $1,200 or $20,000, whatever it is, but then not actually do it, but somehow that still builds your credibility. They don't think you chickened out. How do you do something like that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Of course, I also wanted to know how to build an undercover identity, stay safe while hanging out and partying and engaging in criminal activity with ultra-violent criminal bikers, and how you build a case against such a powerful crime organization as a cop, as an undercover officer trying to take down the Hells Angels. Here we go with Jay Dobbins. Do you know Ken Croke? I do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
I experienced it. Meanwhile, you bought the guns from a cop, from an ATF agent who seized them from somebody else three months ago.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
So do you just sit in an office and meet up with the other guy and go, okay, you're going to bring this and we got to get the judge to sign off on that and got to get the boss to sign off on this. And you say, hey, aren't you the guy that killed Tony, and then I say, yeah, what's it to you? And then we do this gun transact. Like you're sitting there discussing this, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
And drinking coffee and you do it the next week. How do you plan something like this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
So I vanished for a couple of months, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Yeah, he was on here a couple years ago. That was a super interesting episode. A lot of people really liked it. Were you before or after or the same time as him?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Yeah, it seems like that's a pretty easy decision. I'm sorry I'm stuck on this. Why does a home invasion crew need an RPG? What good could that possibly do? If you're breaking into someone's home, even if you're stealing drugs... Why do you want a grenade launcher? That just seems like the loudest, least covert thing that you could use.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
I see. So it's almost for show because I'm imagining this home invasion cruise not blowing someone's door off with an RPG. That's insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Yeah, that's a good point. OK. And how much does it cost to have someone killed? I'm obviously not going to do this, but I'm curious what someone says. Hey, go kill Jordan. Are you like it's fifteen hundred dollars or is it fifteen thousand or is it one hundred and fifty thousand? Like what is the price range of a murder for hire? I have no idea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Yeah. So in his book, he mentions other undercover operations. He's probably talking about yours, right? Because there's not tons of undercover biker gang. There's not, but there's some other operations of significance that he might be referencing. I see. Okay. Yeah, I wasn't sure because he specifically didn't talk about them very much, probably for good reasons.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Right, right. So you have to put everything on hold and go fake murder somebody because if they need him killed fast and they do it because you were too slow or tomorrow was your day off, then that person's dead and it's kind of your fault.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Look, I mean, the book starts with you getting shot. So this stuff is dangerous. And I'd love to start with that story because frankly, it sounds like a good reason not to join the ATF in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Don't be ashamed of who you are. That's your parents' job. We'll be right back. deals, discount codes, and ways to support us are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. The AI chat bot also on the website can help you surface the codes. If you can't remember the name of a code, you're not sure if there is a code, shoot me an email, jordan at jordanharbinger.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
I am happy to surface that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Jay Dobbins. So you're involved in some of these home invasion crew stuff. Robbing a normal person would be just a weirdly distressing event.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Maybe I just don't have a good idea of what this is all about and maybe I'm naive, but it seems like it would be weirdly thrilling to go in with a group of criminals and rob a drug dealer because you're not robbing somebody who's like a hardworking person. You're not robbing a normal person who's trashing their kids' rooms. You're robbing a drug dealer. So I'm with scumbags robbing a scumbag.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Is there an element of... Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Right. High level of authority as well. Yeah. Why specifically is it hard for a bureaucracy like law enforcement to go after motorcycle clubs like the Hells Angels? From the book, not that law enforcement isn't up to the challenge, but it's almost like a design flaw. It's more fashionable maybe to go after one or two big volume drug dealers or gun dealers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Or if you want to make a ton of cases, you just go after small timers and you just rack them up, one guy per week. But going after a big organization seems really difficult. Takes too much time and resources and then maybe a questionable result.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with an undercover ATF agent that infiltrated the infamous Pagans biker gang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
To hear how Ken Croke spent two years risking his life going through initiation in one of the most ruthless biker gangs in the world, check out episode 673 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. That's the end of part one, part two, out in just a few days. All things Jay Dobbins will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support this podcast. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, is just waiting for you. It's a great companion to the show. It's very practical. It's a two-minute read every week. Many of you have been sending me awesome feedback on this, and I love writing it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
I love creating this with you, and I love the dialogue that results. jordanharbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Six Minute Networking over at sixminutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And this show, it's created in association with Podcast One.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember. We rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
If you know somebody who's interested in the Hells Angels, undercover cops, the ATF, crime and criminal activity, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Exactly. Wow. So that's a hell of a first week on the job. You're still here. So you survived that clearly. I'm guessing he didn't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
All the dumb rookie jokes probably stop if you've gotten shot during an arrest, even if it was your first week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Sure. You were married at this point, right? Already? I was. Did your wife think like, oh, okay, he's going to resign and become a science teacher now? 100%.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
I'm guessing that wasn't the answer she was hoping to hear. No, that didn't go over real well. Did getting shot so early in your career, did that change how you approached the job afterward?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
How did you end up becoming an undercover? You have to lean in to do that, right? Because it's a 24-7 kind of version of the job?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Why do we have a separate bureau for alcohol, tobacco, and firearms specifically? Is that a prohibition thing? Because can't the FBI handle that? I don't understand why those things are separate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Most people don't even know, like they maybe have heard of it. And internationally, people have no idea what it is generally. But everyone's heard of the FBI because it's in movies. If it's in the movies, it's like there's a guy from the ATF who's like a weird foil character for somebody else, right? Like The Rock or whatever shows up in Fast and Furious. I don't even know if that's part of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
But yeah, it's rare. You guys don't get a lot of front page media.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Going back to your undercover skill set, this seems almost like the ATF's bread and butter, at least according to some of the books. Or maybe these books are just focused on undercover operations, and maybe that's why it seems like that. But you mentioned earlier, if you want to do undercover, you want to be in the ATF. Why are undercover operations so... Popular is not quite the right word.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. even the occasional gold smuggler, economic hitman, former jihadi, or extreme athlete.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One
Prolific, maybe? And why is this one of the main things that the ATF does? Is it because organized crime is usually associated with alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, and that's what you need in order to break these rings up?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And then it was like two years, three years later, it was... How the hell do they know so much about me and why are they trying to influence what I purchase or the elections that we have? It was such a rapid downfall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, exactly. How many digital footprints do we leave each day? Can you take us through a typical morning? Because a lot of people, again, they're going to say, I don't post updates on Facebook and I don't let the phone track my location or I don't even take my mobile phone with me when I go to the gym, whatever it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
They're going to have some sort of reason that this doesn't apply to them and that the amount of data we create is insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It's really impressive when you think about it that way. To give people who aren't tech nerds an idea of how much data this is, this is a MacBook Pro storage every week or maybe two. So if you bought a laptop, it'd be full at the end of the week or halfway through the week, depending on how much storage you get in that thing. And companies are storing this because there's so many people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So are they really storing a terabyte of information? Are they storing 52 terabytes of data on me personally every week? Because where is all of that data?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, I suppose you don't really need every shred of data, right? If you have, say, someone's path that they walk every day to go get breakfast and then they go to the gym and then they come home, you can just say, it's basically this times a thousand. They don't have to get every time you cross the street.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So yeah, I would say this times seven, but on the eighth day, she went across the street real quick and came back. But then it was this again, 10 times in a row. I mean, that's not that much data, right? It's not every step, every longitude and latitude repeated over and over again. And you're right, storage is super cheap. If you've got some sort of
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
data farm or whatever in Iceland that's buried underneath the snow for cooling purposes, that just gets cheaper by the day. So it doesn't really matter that much. It's just a crazy amount of data, given that it's one terabyte per week times hundreds of millions of people using these things. The amount is just bananas.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It's quite impressive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Today, my friend Zandra Mats shows us how companies steal our data, use our data to target us, not only to sell us things, but how they can essentially read our moods, almost read our minds.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Right, yeah. I suppose. It's all just math. It's way above my pay grade. Facebook knows us better than our closest friends and families. You wrote this in the book, and that is not terribly surprising, a little scary, because I'd like to think my family knows me pretty well, but Facebook does know me better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
They'll show me some clothes where I'm like, oh, I have to buy that, even though I know objectively that I'm going to be disappointed as soon as it arrives and I find out that it was made by small children in Bangladesh or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I was doing a show yesterday with my producer. We were doing some work and I was like, isn't there a different word for pedophiles who are attracted to people in different stages of puberty? And he's like, one, how do you know that? And I was like, oh, it's a bit from a comedian. Let me just look it up. And he goes, please tell me you didn't just Google different types of pedophiles.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And I was like, oh, yeah, shoot. I did. I did.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
How AI and computers get to know us on such an intimate level, what they can do to predict things like depression, which unfortunately they monetize instead of helping us solve, and how we leave millions of digital footprints each day. This is a bit of a deep episode on the data we leave and how it is used. A lot of fascinating details in here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
your absurd questions that are super intimate there's stuff that i've asked chat gpt where i feel the need to tell it a friend of mine has asked the following question asking for a friend of a friend exactly because in 20 years when it's like here's what you searched this day in 2025 i'm like i do not want it to pop up i just don't want that to show up anywhere and if it does i want it to be like you asked on behalf of a friend and i'm like see it wasn't me sure sure pal
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
We have an AI chat bot on our website where people can use it to search for things that are inside episodes, and we get an occasional report of what people have searched for just so we can make it more useful. And it's not my team that's behind it. It's an AI company. And they'll say, hey, FYI, this was a pretty funny month for searches. Here's our top five favorites.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And some of the stuff that people are searching is they're trying to get the AI version of me to tell them how to commit a crime because they think maybe Jordan knows how to get away with this. It's interesting because obviously I'm not liable for that because it's not really me telling them how to do something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
But it's a little scary that somebody can get inside my brain something I would never tell them. And my AI version is, sure, I'll tell you exactly how I would hide a dead body. And it's like, why are you letting my AI brain tell it this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, it's not a person on the other side. It's theoretically infinite number of people that can look at this at any time with no context and zero ability to defend yourself in the moment because you've been dead for 20 years. Yeah, if you're lucky. How do companies like Meta and other social media companies, how do they get to know our preferences?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Is it just me telling them that I like something when somebody posts something? Because I don't always like the things that I like. Does that make sense?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Great vacation. I couldn't care less, but you're going to feel bad if I don't click like on this and we're friends. I'm supporting you, but no, you look like an ass.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
This is 87 selfies of your vacation. These are completely uninteresting. You're clearly a narcissist. Here's my like.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Algorithms can tell if someone is gay 81% of the time just using their face. That's pretty interesting. They might have better gaydar than humans. How computers actually test their assumptions about us. And what having a low phone battery means about you. And yes, we already know you're one of those. Now, here we go with Zandra Motz.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
What was that about first-person pronouns indicating depression? What does that mean? Because I'm not sure I understood what you just said.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's interesting. So in theory, that happens when we're talking to people in real life also, or is this mostly online communication?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
40 times more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's interesting. That's unmistakable. Yeah. It's like pretty substantial. Wow. So in theory, even a smart TV or my phone, which is listening, even if I don't want it to be, or my Amazon Alexa thing, that could tell me if I'm depressed just by hearing what I'm talking about in the house or overhearing a phone conversation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You mentioned in the book that within 300 likes of me liking things on photos or whatever, the platform knows me better than my spouse. 65 likes, it knows me better than my friends. That doesn't seem like that much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I think everybody knows that companies collect a lot of data on us, but I guess I didn't personally realize how granular they could get with psychological targeting. Can you explain what that is, first of all?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, that's not super surprising. I guess if you think about it this way, and I'm sure this isn't a one-to-one kind of comparison, but if I had to remember 300 things that my spouse likes at the same time, I don't know if I could do that. That's a lot of different things. How do they measure that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Is it like the newlywed game where you get asked questions and the computer just gets it right more than the spouse?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Wow. Yeah, that's interesting. And the computer gets it right more than the spouse. Again, though, I think trying to remember 300 different things about your spouse at one time, it's a lot. It's just a superhuman feat of memory alone, let alone knowing someone that well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Now it's time for us to hopefully monetize you. We'll be right back. Bye. Bye. Bye. even laser-powered internet. I'm not sure how that works, but I want to find out. Get an inside look at the people, the challenges, and the wild process of turning impossible ideas into reality.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You're basically sitting down with the minds behind these projects to answer big questions like how we can make clean energy work and if we can get tech to actually help save this planet. What I like about this show is it's not just about success, it's also about failure, risk, and relentless optimism.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So if you're into bold ideas, breakthrough tech, and the untold stories behind innovation, the Moonshot podcast is your kind of show. Premiered March 10th with new episodes dropping every week. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. As Anthony Bourdain once said, travel isn't always pretty. It's not always comfortable, but that's okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
The journey changes you. It should change you. Seeing the world opens your mind, introduces you to new perspectives, and gives you experiences that no classroom or office ever could. And with remote work being more common, there's never been a better time to take advantage of that freedom. Immerse yourself in new cultures, make lifelong memories, keep a home base to return to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Airbnb can make that a reality. Hosting on Airbnb is an easy way to earn extra income without taking on a second job. And now, with Airbnb's co-host network, it's even simpler. Got a spare room, guest house, place that sits empty while you're away? Instead of letting it just collect dust, let it help fund your next adventure. A co-host, they can take care of everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
They list your space, they manage reservations, they communicate with guests, they keep it all in tip-top shape, and that unused space could cover your flights to Asia, book you a cool hotel in Spain, even help with everyday expenses, giving you the freedom to explore more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Whether you're saving for your dream getaway or you're just looking for financial flexibility, Airbnb makes it easy to turn your space into extra income. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these amazing thinkers, authors, creators every week, it's because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And I'm teaching you how to build a network for yourself for free, whether for personal or professional reasons, whether you're retired or just entering the job market. I have a course over at 6minutenetworking.com. The course requires no payment. I don't want your money. I don't even need to know who you are. You can be totally anonymous. It's all super easy, down to earth, non-cringy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It's about your relationship building skills. In just a few minutes a day, you can binge this course, practice a few things from it. It will change the way that you relate to others. And that's the whole idea. And many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You can find the course again for free at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, now back to Sandra Motz. How do computers test their assumptions about what they know about us? I know I'm anthropomorphizing computers a little bit, but whatever. How do they test and see if they're right? Because they have to do that somehow, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I see. So it's just tons of trial and error. You have a really good analogy in the book about chick sexing. Don't worry, it's still safe for work, folks. This is not the chick sexing that I tried in vain to accomplish in my 20s. This is the kind of chick sexing that happens on a farm. Yeah. Tell us about this, because this is a very good metaphor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You know, it just occurred to me, I wonder if they collect data in the same way when I pay with my phone. And the answer is now I'm just telling Apple and the credit card company everything that I buy. And I know that they know this because it'll pop up like, your Amex has been charged $47 for eating at this restaurant. So of course they're logging that, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
They'll eventually use that against me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, it goes through a bank, but it's also, I'm telling Apple, which is what business do they have about what I'm buying? And the answer is they're in the business of data just like everybody else, probably.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, I noticed whenever you install something new, it's like this app wants to track you. It's ask app not to track. It doesn't say we won't track you. It says... We're not going to let them track you. Don't worry, though. We're still tracking you, obviously. We're still tracking everything that you're doing. It's like location data.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Somebody told me the other day, oh, I turned off location data so they don't know where I am at. And I'm like, they know. They're just not sharing it with you and your friends and your mom. It's not like the FBI can't find you. Come on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
The new cameras that are out there for sports photography, I think when you hold the button, first of all, it sounds like some kind of machine gun from Terminator. But it'll take, I want to say, 100 photos in a second or something like that at maximum speed, which is great if you're trying to catch something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
a jumper at the peak of their jump at the Olympics and you want to get the perfect moment of them going over a bar or something like that. That's when it makes sense. But when you're taking a picture of your kids deuce in the potty at home, it's like before they're smashing their head into the wall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yes, I want the wave in the skin of the forehead when it smashes into the drywall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Exactly. Oh, my gosh. Tell me about Facebook status updates and word clouds. I miss Facebook updates. I mean, maybe they still exist, but it used to be... And I know I sound old AF when I say this. AOL Instant Messenger. Do you remember that? Did you use that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
ICQ and... Right, you had your away message, and you're like, okay, I gotta think of something creative and fun.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Like, off days, you just pick a quote from an author you like or something, but on days where you think of something really funny, you put that in there, and everyone's checking everyone else's away message all the time to see if there's a... And it was like, if you could do that day in and day out and make it fun, people were like, this guy's smart. And Facebook...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
The original Facebook status updates where you just typed in the box what you were doing, that was almost like a status game for good writers in college.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So I was doing training for some journalists a couple of months ago in another country. And one of the things that they did was they put all of our phones in like a safe box. And I said, oh, I'll just turn it on airplane mode. And they were like, oh, sweet summer child. That's not going to do anything to stop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
How the rich and poor talk online is actually quite fascinating. The idea that people who have lower socioeconomic status or people who are really having trouble making ends meet, can we just say poor? If you can't make ends meet, you're not doing so well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
to live it's tough and I never thought about that because of course if I saw somebody who only talked about themselves and things they were doing that day it would seem to me that they were not thinking long term because of some character defect or they're not smart enough or something like that but now of course it makes total sense that if you can't think far enough in advance because you're just trying to literally feed your kids or you don't have gas to get to work and
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And you're that poor. It's not necessarily a character defect or you having screwed up your life. Rich people, is it really that obvious that they just talk about luxury brands and vacations? Or are there some more subtle cues that out people as high socioeconomic status?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Because I can't name one single time where I've been like just getting back from my business class flight to Turkey and staying at a five star hotel. Here's my dinner. I just don't do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
intelligence services or whatever from finding or turning on the microphone to hear what we're doing. And I thought, oh, that makes sense. Especially if they want to get the location data, they can do that. If the phone is in a lead box, then it just sort of vanishes. And I guess they had us put it in the box in one place and then we moved to another place. So they just couldn't track us that way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That is a good point. I hadn't even thought about that necessarily. There's still a stat that something like less than half of Americans have a passport or something like that. Yeah, you don't have to say I'm going to a five star hotel in the Seychelles. You just have to say, oh, immigration is so slow in India. OK, well, you went to India, even though you're complaining about something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Good point. Yeah, I suppose if you're just excited that it's the first time you've ever left the country, you're not complaining about immigration status. You're like, I can't wait to eat after I get out of the six-hour line. You're just excited to be there. I thought it was quite fascinating about how these algorithms can tell if you're extroverted or introverted.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You mentioned based on likes, if you like fantasy novels or if you like going to music festivals, that makes sense. There was a theory in the book or a hypothesis in the book that attractive people become more extroverted and outgoing because of the attention they receive as kids. That makes a lot of sense. Or is that just pure speculation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
This makes so much sense. And it seems like it might be something that you could encourage in kids, regardless of how attractive they are, just by interacting with them a lot, putting them in environments where they are interacting with other people, adults and kids. You're right. There's still that spontaneous element. My daughter, she's three. She loves to sing and dance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And she'll be like, turn your chair around. The show's going to start. And I'm just like, where did you learn this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
crazy extroverted behavior but then she's in music class and then the teacher's paying attention to her and the other kids are paying attention to her so it is a reinforcing cycle my son who looks exactly like me so he's very cute he has it in sort of an almost like a negative way where he's like whenever i do bad things people pay attention to me at school or otherwise and i'm just like oh no this is not the reinforcing that's you were hoping for yeah
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
This is not what we want. We want him to be reinforced. He's good. But he is not shy at all. It's crazy. He talks to the cops when they're here. He just has no fear at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
But that was the only method they had. And you had to put your watch in there, everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You mentioned, though, facial recognition can take faces from photos or videos taken by other people or just the CCTV that's present in whatever stadium you're in or on a street corner if you live in China. So it doesn't really matter if you don't use social media. You're still a part of this surveillance capitalism system or whatever we want to call it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It is creepy, and there's not much we can do about it. Because if an AI is making a decision to give someone a loan or not, and by the way, you know damn well it's going to be like, this person's battery was 25% at lunchtime when they applied. We're not giving them a loan. They're totally irresponsible. It's not going to say that's the reason.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It's going to say, oh, based on 20,000 factors that weighed a little bit to the left on whatever line, you're just short of making it. We're not gonna be able to weigh all 10,000 of those factors. The fact that you applied and didn't finish the application all at once, and your battery status at the time, and your location kept changing, and the fact that your jobs have changed so much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
There's gonna be 10,000 of those. It's not gonna be like, we didn't give you a loan because you're brown. That's gonna be an obviously not okay thing, but when it's 10, 20, 30,000 different little factors, and they don't interrogate the AI as to why, they just blindly accept it because it's accurate 99% of the time, That's where we start to run into these problems, I would imagine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I do want to address those counter-arguments in a little bit, but first I want to scare the crap out of everybody a little bit more. The way that computers and AI get to know us at an intimate level is really hard to describe to people who have lived with some level of privacy their whole life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You untrustworthy, good for nothing deadbeat. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Tonal. Getting in shape is not easy, and the older I get, the more I realize how important, of course, it is. You hit a certain age, suddenly it's not about looking jacked, it's about, hey, how do I get out of this chair without grunting like my dad? I still grunt, though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I think it's part of, I think you have to. I think you are mandated to do that after age 40. Anyway, that's why Tonal is great. It's basically like having a full gym and a personal trainer mounted to your wall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It uses digital weights, so it adjusts in real time as you lift, meaning it knows when you're struggling and it backs off just enough or pushes you when it knows you got more in the tank, which frankly is smarter than most of us when we're training solo. It's a great idea. Gym memberships and personal trainer fees, they add up fast. With Tonal, you're making an investment once.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You're getting way more out of it. Plus, no commute. You finish a workout. You're already home, which if you've got kids, you've got a busy schedule, is huge. You could put this thing in your office, which would be awesome. Another thing I love is Tonal doesn't just throw random workouts at you. There are structured programs designed by legit coaches.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It keeps track of your progress, adjusts your weights automatically, and they make it addictive in the best way. It's gamified. You can actually see yourself getting stronger, which keeps you coming back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
This episode is also sponsored by Progressive. You choose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called AutoQuote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Growing up in the 80s in a medium-sized town, some people were all up in my business, but they didn't really know that much about me. I could hide stuff from parents pretty easily, but you had the ability to do that. You, on the other hand, grew up in a really small town and everybody knew everything about you. This analogy was actually really good to illustrate the idea here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So you save time on the research and you can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode, of course, at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. This episode is also sponsored in part by BetterHelp.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You know what is wild, we will spend hundreds of dollars on a new phone and supplements to optimize ourselves, but when it comes to our mental health, suddenly it's like, eh, I'm good, I'm just gonna power through the existential dread.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Here's the thing though, therapy, it's not just for when everything's falling apart, it's like maintenance, it's like changing the oil in the car, you don't wait until the engine explodes. And therapy's helped me through all the curveballs thrown my way personally, traditional therapy, it can be expensive, I get the hesitation. That's why BetterHelp is actually pretty brilliant. It's online.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It's flexible. You pay a flat weekly fee, so no surprise bills that make you need more therapy. They've got over 30,000 therapists, like a small army of people ready to help you get your head on straight. And if you don't vibe with your therapist, there's no awkward breakup text. You just switch. Easy. No driving across town. No weird waiting room chairs. You just click a button. Boom, you're in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Bottom line, your mental health is worth it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors who make this show possible. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You can always surface codes using the AI chatbot on the website as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And if you can't remember the code, you're not sure if there is a code, go ahead and email us jordan at jordanharbinger.com. We are more than happy to surface that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Zandra Motz.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I also found it shocking how easy it is to identify somebody personally based on, what was it, three credit card transactions? It seems like if it's that easy, you could also extrapolate a lot of info about people from those transactions once you identify them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So if you find me based on three transactions, some software I bought, a haircut, and where I ate lunch, now you've got a zillion other transactions you can identify me with that are like, here's every bit of clothing he bought. Forget Facebook status, where I spend my money is at least as identifying and intimate as that data.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Those people are just looking at the photo where it's Look, I just woke up and I'm in full makeup and I'm in my yoga gear sponsored by Aloe. That's what people mean by curated, but you can't fake the rest of it. The fact that your battery's low, your late fees are half your credit card transaction, you have a massive balance from month to month that keeps running because you can't pay it off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Oh, big time. It's 100% bigger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That stuff you can't really hide. You can put on a brave face, a shellacking, a veneer over what it is, but you can't hide from the company. They know you're full of crap. And I have to admit, I pat myself on the back a little bit when you said in the book, the person who buys gym equipment and then donates to charity is an example of somebody who has their shit together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I looked at my credit card statement and I was like, what have I done? Okay, I spent 500 bucks on gym equipment. Oh, there's my Amnesty International donation. And I was like, I'm a good person according to the data. Science doesn't lie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's really funny. Like, we don't have underwear, but all of our cereals are alphabetized in the cabinet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah. This is what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. That's really funny. Moran is a really interesting, your husband is a really interesting character. By the way, he was on episode 265 of this show. And you had your first impression of him, which was that accurate? Because you went out on a date or something. How much of your predictions of him initially turned out to be right later on?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That sounds about right. I mean, he's French and he's Jewish. So you're lucky he didn't miss your wedding, actually. Yes. That's really funny. And also you ended up at his place after the talk. Location data says you're a little bit easy there, Sandra.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I remember vaguely in the 90s when I started dating, there was a cliche that a woman would come into your house and look in your medicine cabinet to see what sort of drugs you had in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That actually was the original snooping around thing before digital stuff existed because you would open that cabinet and you'd be like, oh, okay, here's the real stuff that they're not going to tell me for months.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's a good point because this is sort of before all the personality pills and Adderall and everything. So I don't know. Are you looking to see if they're diabetic? Back then, what would have mattered? I don't know. Yeah, but it was a thing for sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Hemorrhoid cream. Who doesn't have a couple tux laying around? I remember I was interviewing a very important, very distinguished man. He's like, can you come to my hotel and do it? So we did. We set up in his hotel and I was like, I need to use the restroom real quick. And I remember going into the restroom and he had all this hemorrhoid stuff laid out on the counter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And I was like, good to know that the CEO of this giant, massive multinational company has serious hemorrhoids. Poor guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, because you can't be like, hold on, I'll be right back. Nope. He's just going to find out about my hemorrhoids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
He did. He played it very cool. But I guess at that point when you're a billionaire, it's like, yeah, I got hemorrhoids. What are you going to do about it, podcaster?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You can leave if you have a problem with that. What is the limit of psychological targeting? Can I change someone's mind entirely or do I just influence people who are straddling the fence?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Yeah, that's interesting, because it does seem like the sort of most basic, mediocre use of all this psychological targeting is selling me shirts. It just seems like, can't you do more with this? And I remember Cambridge Analytica, right? It was like, oh, they totally influenced the election. Did they or was it not much?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Can we use this technology to decrease political polarization? These companies, they know what we're all like. They can file us into echo chambers. Can we reverse that process?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Oh, man, that would be really irritating because, you know, it's like your parents theoretically have your best interest in mind. But the woman who lives five doors down, who babysat you twice when you were little, they don't really know you. They think they know you because they've made all these assumptions about you, but they could be wildly off base.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That would be an interesting experiment. Again, though, it has to be profitable or these companies won't actually want to do it. Back to the privacy idea. What about people that think they don't need privacy because they have nothing to hide? I hear that argument all the time. There's so many people that say, look, I have nothing to hide. I don't care if they're collecting data on me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's a good point. Being gay is illegal in more than half the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
So it's illegal or at least could be illegal in a large number of places. Religious affiliation. As a Jewish person, we don't like lists. We don't like tracking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
And also, oh, I think she should date that boy. Why? Because they both have dark hair. What the hell does that have to do with anything? You're not exactly using your genius matchmaking skills. It's like, the boy she's dating now, I don't like him because one day he dropped something on my lawn by accident. Okay, 20 years ago, he dropped something on your lawn by accident.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Speaking of stalkers, surely it's happened that somebody has used online data to find and hurt someone. I'd be shocked if that hasn't happened multiple times already.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
No kidding. Yeah. Hey, we got to protect judges. OK, what about these zillion other people that don't necessarily have political power that don't try to take their stuff offline? I remember that case that was particularly disgusting. And I get that judges are in a more vulnerable place than a lot of other folks. But what about all the other people that are in a similar place?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You've got prosecutors. Sure. OK, part of the legal system. What about police officers? OK, what about teachers or disciplinarians in the school environment? Or just like maybe I don't want to stalk her either. How's that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
How do we do this? The book goes into detail, so we don't need to go into like weeds too much. But one of the ideas you had was preventing companies from getting too many data points. Why is that a good idea?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
His dog peed in your yard, so he's a bad kid now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I know in the book you talk about taxing data brokers. I liked your idea, and this is very European, and I cannot see how it would happen here, but God bless you. Data co-ops, where essentially we all own our data. How would this work? Because that's like crazy talk to us Americans, that we would own our own data.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Thank you. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It's funny because people will ask me something like, wow, your life is really not that private because you have a podcast and you have this online brand. But the difference is I have been for the last 18 years-ish thinking about what goes online because I realize, oh, if I post this, it's part of my brand. If I post that, it's part of my brand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Not that everything I do is branding, but it's just I'm consciously aware that I can't start talking about... I don't know, buying a gun without people being like, okay, so now you're this political, this, or maybe you're this guy, or maybe you're that guy, or maybe you're having a midlife crisis or whatever, right? You're doing something there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Whereas normal people, they post on Facebook and they go, I'm just telling my friends that I got a new rifle for hunting. But what you're doing is telling the entire world for all of eternity that you are now a certain type of person or with 50% probability or maybe this person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
You forget you posted that last Monday, but the algorithm never forgets that you own a Browning with a scope that you can use to shoot 100 yards. They will never forget that for the rest of your life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's interesting. I hadn't even thought about the fact that you don't have to post it. It just comes out of the data exhaust or whatever they call it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Where it's like, location data, oh, we don't need that. Actually, now we can tell where this guy goes to lunch every day. Oh, that's useful. We can advertise similar restaurants in the area. That all becomes useful as soon as they figure out what to do with the mess of data that they have, which is what AI is getting better at doing and these kinds of things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
One thing I thought was super interesting in the book was that these clues or data can predict depression. And lots of people are depressed. I don't think that's a big surprise. There's like a million suicides a year. Is that global? I assume that's global because that's enormous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
That's a huge number of people, no matter which way you slice it. 280 million people, give or take, are suffering from depression. I don't know how they figured that out or if it's an underestimate. So if we can predict depression, I have to assume that these companies are doing everything in their power to help users who are at risk as soon as they get word.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Not telling me a leather jacket and telling me it's going to make me feel better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It seems like if you're not a complete psychopath, a profiteer, I get it, advertising to people is profitable. It seems like if you find out that teenagers are depressed, one of the best ways to get every parent on your side as a tech company would be like, hey,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Imagine this headline, Facebook saves 10,000 teenage lives per year with depression tracking, notifying teachers or caring adults, parents, doctors, healthcare people, authorities, whatever it is, every year by tracking them online. Parents would be like, here's your new phone so that you can use Instagram because this is the only insight we really have into your life and they're keeping you safe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
As opposed to the current narrative, which is the complete opposite.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
It seems like this would be so easy to implement because obviously they can trigger advertising if you're depressed. They could easily trigger an email, a phone call, a notification in your spouse's use of that app or whatever. It could literally just call the police or there could be some sort of central way to handle this. It surprises me that they haven't done it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Now, maybe that's naive because they're saying, oh, you'd say that's not profitable. Why would they do that? It seems like it would long term be such a massive PR win and create almost an incentive for parents to get these products in the hands of their children that it would be ROI positive. I don't know. What do I know?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers, even the occasional cold case homicide investigator, hostage negotiator, gold smuggler, or Russian spy. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
I don't think I trust them, but this is because of what they do with the data that they're already getting. If they years ago had said, hey, we can use this to target advertising. Hey, and by the way, This looks like you might be starting down the path of having an eating disorder. We're going to notify somebody who you told us to notify or your school authorities.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Then maybe we would have a totally different opinion of Facebook instead of... Remember early, it was like, wow, I can keep in touch with all my friends from school. This is incredible. I know what my aunt is up to. I only talk to her like once a year. Now I see her photos every week. This is such a glorious product. I don't see what could possibly go wrong with this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You know who won't beat you with a lead pipe for accidentally bumping into them at a bar? The amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. I know I've said it once. Well, I've said it many times. In fact, I'm going to shill it again. Six Minute Networking. It is a networking course. Networking is a dirty word. It's not exactly what we're talking about here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong and you can find the course always free at sixminutenetworking.com. I don't need your credit card number. I'm not going to charge you any money, nothing like that. Sixminutenetworking.com is where you can find it. All right, back to Jay Dobbins. You mentioned that real cops don't do drugs unless our lives depend on it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
What's up with that rule? It seems like it would be really easy to just do a couple lines of blow here and there, like lawyers do it. That's not exactly an advanced kind of thing. Why the prohibition on this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
And if you go to the convenience store or any of the bars nearby, they're in there and you can say like, oh, Hell's Angels, wow, are you from New York? No, I actually am from California. I just drove here over the past couple of weeks. Wow, how long does that take? Now we do it in five days, but it's exhausting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
I suppose there's also a world in which you say, and then what happened? Are you sure about that? Because you were high out of your mind on methamphetamine during that entire evening. And we know that because you're talking 120 words per minute on the tapes and we have you on video doing it. That's probably not a good look either.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah, depends on the crime. But yeah, it's a tougher argument for sure. Your kid calls at one point while you're in a meeting with the gang. How do you deal with something like that? I'm surprised you answer that. I guess maybe you didn't have caller ID on your cell phone at that time or you're not sure. It seems like a call you might want to put to voicemail.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You're small talking with them about something they did, but you're not like, so did you bring meth with you? Like you don't say anything like that. And they're perfectly friendly. They don't kick you out of the bar or push you off the bar. Well, it's almost confusing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You said, when you become a Hells Angel, everything else about you is now moot. They have a rule book that makes the Division I football playbook look like a pamphlet on buying a jacuzzi. I'm so curious what kind of rules there are. We mentioned never passing a full patches front wheel or something when you're driving, but what kind of other rules are there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
I know there's rules about girlfriends and wives and things like that. Maybe you can give us some examples of the rules, especially if they're weird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
What are some of the weirdest rules that almost don't make any sense until you think about it or until you explain it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yikes. Yeah. You're assuming a higher status that you didn't earn if you do something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Well, that's how you deal with Nazis anyway. But yeah, I suppose they they seem like they were a little bit more sympathetic to some of the shady.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah. That makes sense. Are there Jewish Hells Angels, or is it mostly an atheist kind of organization or Christian organization?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Probably not coming up a lot in the meetings. Hey, it's Hanukkah. I can't ride this week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah, I don't even know if it's the underbelly. It's right on the front. But as much as there's excitement and danger and catching these bad guys, it's the really depressing part in the underbelly of this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You mentioned some of the women that hang around, and I'm going to paraphrase, but you say they'd been road hard and put away wet, so to speak, and some of them were attractive and other ones looked like a snowy mud flap in March or something like that. The life hasn't been kind to them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You said there's little kids around who had the same name as your son, and this kid wanted to show you his new toy, and it was like a used tire. And you just think, damn, this kid's life around all these degenerates just sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
I'm not going to let this little girl get cleaned up. It's so depressing that anybody lives like that, especially children. That's got to be tough to see.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah, you mentioned you said something along the lines of an undercover constantly trades his ethics for the greater good of the case. And I think the example was you wanted to arrest all these degenerates who are doing drugs around their kids and they weren't feeding their kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
But if I don't arrest them, I can maybe arrest the people who are running these guys in charge of these guys or arrest all of them or more of them. What other kind of tradeoffs do you have to make in this line of work?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
That is horrifying, especially as a parent. You had to just be like, man, that kid was dealt a crappy hand of cards to have those parents.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
The best case scenario is they get taken away from the parents when they go to prison or die or something and they end up in a better home. Even if they are a certified genius with influences like that, they're just going to misuse that intelligence and end up in prison or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
If you're wearing dirty onesie pajamas with your bomb-dealing parents, you're probably not in school, right? No one's paying attention to your education. It's just, what a mess. It's just, oh, that is so sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah, that's where the lawyers come in and they go, we're going to argue this way. And the prosecutor says, we're going to argue the other way. Although you mentioned in the book something interesting that I'd never heard before, which is often undercover police or law enforcement, they end up sympathizing with the gangs or they even form their own motorcycle clubs like cops.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You know what's better than meth smuggled cross country and the sweaty assless chaps of a criminal biker gang? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Always appreciate it when you support the sponsors.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
We don't get money from direct sales, but when you use our codes, companies see that people are responding to the ad. They're more likely to continue their partnerships with us. That's how it works. To double win, you get a great deal. You help keep the show thriving. Thank you for supporting those who make the show possible. Now, for the rest of my conversation with Jay Dobbins. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
having a motorcycle club or gang or something. What's that all about? What's going on there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. astronaut, national security advisor, or Russian chess grandmaster. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about it, and of course I appreciate it when you do, I suggest our episode starter packs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
I would love to have you back on. We barely talked about the actual Hells Angels undercover operation. I have a ton of notes. I would love to have you back on at some point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Thank you. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with former mafia underboss Sammy the Bull Gravano.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
To hear more about how Sammy rose in the ranks to become one of the most notorious gangsters of all time, check out episode 587 and 588 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Wow, this undercover stuff never ceases to amaze me. I wonder if I had done something like this when I was younger. I definitely do not have the stones for it. Now, once you have kids, man, you just can't be doing this stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Although he did it with kids. I don't know. He's definitely built different. I'll tell you that. There's definitely a follow-up show happening. I've got them on the books for a round two. There's much more in my notes about biker gangs and the Hells Angels undercover operation and the other operations that he was on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Right. So that appeals to a certain type of person who then is maybe willing to defend that, I guess, with their life. It doesn't seem worth it to me, but I'm also not the target market for that sort of thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
More undercover ATF agents going into biker gangs with Ken Croke, if you haven't heard that episode yet. That's episode 673. That was one of, and still is, one of our most popular episodes of the show, and it's one of the ones that you listeners are constantly surfacing to me. Episode 673 with Ken Croke. Similar to this one, a lot of good stories.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Ken's just a great speaker as well, so definitely check that episode out if you haven't done so yet. All things Jay Dobbins will be in the show notes on the website. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support this show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who make the show possible. Our newsletter, it's called We Bit Wiser.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
It's out every Wednesday. It's a two-minute read. The idea is to give you something specific and practical that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships. And if you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. jordanharbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Six Minute Networking over at sixminutenetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. We rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in undercover work, the ATF, the Hells Angels, or just criminal activity in general, distance yourself from that person. No, share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
And then you get the Sons of Anarchy, and it's clearly about them slash all motorcycle clubs. They were consultants for them on the show to make it look more realistic. And people are obsessed with that. That show ended years ago. People still talk about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
If you're infiltrating them, don't they try to do the same thing? I mean, look, they don't have an undercover program, but, you know, like their guy's cousin works for the FBI. Are they not? Hey, you got to tell us if you see anything about our club. They must be. Surely they're doing that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah. I got a friend who is Canadian, and he was working for the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, doing something like processing wiretap transcripts. And then one day his boss was like, Hey, you are on some of our surveillance because your childhood best friend, his dad is a hell's angel or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
And you are fired, obviously, because you are the one who is processing the wiretaps of your friend's dad and his associates. planning crimes. We cannot trust you with this information anymore. But had he actually been a bad actor instead of a kid with a summer job, he could have probably just said, hey, I can't associate with you guys. They're going to catch you on surveillance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
I know you're on surveillance because I'm reading the transcripts. Here's what they say. Here's what they know. Here's what they don't know. Surely they get lucky like that or deliberately put people in those positions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yikes, that sounds leaky. It's crazy that cops can come from gangs. It doesn't make a ton of sense. I assume there's a policy about that now, but who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
He's probably gonna be a really good street cop because he knows what's going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, part two with Jay Dobbins.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah, it's a question of loyalty. That's a tough thing to test for. A lot of my friends from law school who wanted to join the FBI, they couldn't do it because they'd smoked weed in college. And I was just thinking, you're going to try to catch the biggest criminals in the country or terrorists.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
But this guy who's like certified genius is disqualified because he rolled up a bunch of joints freshman year. Who are you going to hire who's going to understand the mindset of a criminal when you can't even get a pothead past the screening?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You said it's important to build trust or at least the illusion of trust. Tell me about how you do it, but tell me what you mean by illusion as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
So some motivations are stronger than others, right? If one guy's like, you're going to go to prison for life for trafficking in weapons and violent crime, that's a pretty strong motivation to help you. But if it's just ego validation, they could maybe get that elsewhere, like by betraying you to the gang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
You mentioned riding the motorcycles with these guys is really hard to do. You're not just learning how to ride a motorcycle. You're going really fast and you're in this tight formation. Tell me a little bit about that because there's rules in the formation too, right? You're not just riding on the highway like a normal cycle.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
If you haven't heard part one, definitely go check that out. We're going undercover in the Hells Angels, a fascinating episode so far. All right, let's jump back into it with Jay Dobbins. You mentioned in the book that a small number of outlaw bikers have a lot of influence over the more restrained guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Yeah, that's terrifying. And you're not allowed to pass. There's a couple of rules, right? You're not allowed to pass someone's front wheel. How does that work?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
Jeez. That would be as scary or scarier than dealing with all these people and engaging in undercover work in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
They're terrible. It's messy. Yeah, it's messy. It's just a meat crayon, even if you have protective gear on. And that's if you don't smash yourself into something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
There's career criminals that do nothing but drugs and crime, and they have a lot of influence over the other guys who maybe have functional lives outside the gang. And that drives a lot of the violence and crime. And my very limited experience with... say Hell's Angels in New York City, there's a headquarters there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
First impressions you talk about a lot in the book as well. Super important, especially for undercover. How do you make a strong first impression specifically in the criminal underworld? You mentioned never take your guns off for anyone or there's things like that. But tell us about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
We're talking about drones and drone warfare, electronic warfare, jamming, intelligence sharing. Should we stop intelligence sharing? Did we stop intelligence sharing? Should we stop supplying weapons? Did we stop supplying weapons? All these confusing news items that seem to change every five minutes. We do a little update on that and what that means for the Ukraine conflict.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
First of all, what do they do slash how do they work in brief?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Huh. OK, so China either doesn't care that we know that, because if you know that, then the CIA knows that military intelligence knows that. So either China doesn't care or the United States doesn't care also, because couldn't we maybe do something about that if we really wanted to or not? I don't know what's going on here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That is scary because if they're thinking we're going to supply these and the U.S. can't do anything about it. Or they can, and we don't care about that. That is a scary scenario. But it seems almost more likely that there's got to be some aligned incentives. Like, all right, they found out about this, but what we're telling them is here's how many we're sending.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
We also discuss whether Europe should arm up, how they can arm up, can they arm up at all, and what it will mean for the future of this conflict. Thanks for coming back on, man. I had a slight lull in the angry emails about your episode, so I decided to have you come back on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Just enough to keep Russia bleeding out, not enough to make a big difference. I mean, am I a conspiracy theorist talking like this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I see. But doesn't this go along with the idea, the point you just made, that China doesn't want Russia to collapse completely and the U.S. also doesn't want Russia to collapse completely. So it's almost like we have to allow China to help keep them in the game, at least for a while.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I suppose it's speculative, so we should probably just move on. I just thought I'd throw that out there because it seems like a logical conclusion based on the stuff that you just told me. Tell me about the drones. I keep seeing drone footage on Reddit where I live these days because I don't sleep anymore because I have small kids, but...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
There's a lot of videos where drones are going around on the battlefield. Some are really graphic and horrific and all that. But some of them are just kind of interesting where it's like a wired drone is driving up to a vehicle. And for me, being an RC car enthusiast, along with my five-year-old son, that seems weird. I would never drive a wired RC car. So I asked you about this via text.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Why are they using wires? And you said they're fiber optic, so they can't be jammed. It's almost like we play records here because our Spotify is not working. So we have vinyl now. It's like going back to analog almost. I know fiber optic, not really analog, but my point stands. Going wired seems like a weird step back somehow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, you might be the number one in terms of frequency. Not in terms of quality. In terms of frequency guest on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So this is like cat and mouse with the signals and the frequencies. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Holy smokes. I want to know what that spool looks like. That's got to just be enormous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Now allow me to drone on about the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by CookUnity. I've tried pretty much every meal delivery service out there. CookUnity really stands out. What's cool is that every meal is chef-crafted, and I'm not just saying that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
You can actually see the chef's profile, their background, where they've worked, and they've got something for whatever you're aiming for. High protein, which is me, keto, gluten-free, even meals built around GLP-1 goals, if that's something you've got going on. Everything shows up fresh, not frozen. Heat it up. You're eating restaurant-quality meals in minutes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
It's funny because fans are like, you do a good job of distilling a lot of stuff. I watch all his videos, but it's good because you have a conversation, you go a little deeper, and you recap everything. And then other people are like, this guy has his head up his ass, and I hate everything that he says. But usually those people are like, they also send me crazy unhinged messages.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
What surprised me the most, though, is how good everything tastes. Like, the other night I had this herb-crusted chicken breast from Chef Eddie Benhamu. I'm sorry, I probably butchered that. But anyway, it took five minutes, no cleanup, and the variety is massive. You can browse by chef, you can browse by protein, cuisine, whatever you're feeling that week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
There's always something new, so you're not stuck in that sad meal prep loop eating the same three things every day. Plus, everything's made with seasonal ingredients and humanely raised meats, so you know it's got the quality behind it. And if you're trying to eat better without the hassle, CookUnity is definitely worth checking out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
This episode is also sponsored by Indeed. You know what's funny? I remember trying to hire somebody to keep the show running behind the scenes and it got so frustrating, I ended up hiring my wife, Jen. And that worked out, but it really drove home how crucial hiring the right person is. If I'd had Indeed back then, it probably would have saved me a ton of time and stress.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Instead of tossing your job post out there and just praying that somebody decent sees it, Indeed's sponsored jobs puts you right at the top, front and center for the right people, and it works. Sponsored jobs get 45% more applications than regular posts, which is huge when you're trying to move fast. That's what I love about Indeed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
It speeds up the whole process by getting your post in front of quality candidates fast. Plus, you only pay for results, no subscriptions, no contracts. And just to give you a sense of how fast this thing works, while I've been talking, 23 hires have already happened on Indeed worldwide. So yeah, if you're sitting there realizing you need to hire somebody yesterday, don't waste time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators, and Ryan McBeth every single week, it's because of my network. And I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. I know networking is cringy. People hate it. It makes you look like a D-bag. I am not talking about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I'm talking about non-cringe, down-to-earth, non-awkward strategies, practical stuff that'll make you a better connector, a better peer, a better colleague in a few minutes a day. And many of the guests on our show already subscribe and contribute to the course. So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at 6minutenetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
All right, now back to Ryan McBeth. Jeez, how much of this is automated? Isn't AI but no wire the next thing? You can jam whatever you want. The thing's not remote control anymore.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
stuff at the same time. So that is not a point in their favor. It's interesting. Look, there's reasonable people on all sides of most conflicts. There's like reasoned arguments, for example, why Russia felt threatened and like invaded Ukraine. And it's not like horrific genocide supporting comments. It's just Russian empire is going to expand. It's just a little bit like real politic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Just getting closer to Skynet with Terminators every single... Actually, how long is the evolution? Okay, we're going to come up with this. Oh, actually, they can jam that. All right, we're going to come up with this. Now they're jamming that. They'll come up with the wired version. Now we have the AI version. What is that cycle like?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's already here. I see. So maybe it's using like laser or something like that that's hard to jam. So they're using radio.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, that's really interesting. That's a good metaphor to explain this. Does it make sense to jump into the intelligence sharing thing? Because that seemed like a huge problem when we were like, hey, let's no longer share intelligence. First of all, what is Ukraine using U.S. intelligence for? Targeting?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
But the ones who are like, no, Ukraine is Nazis and they were forced into it by NATO expansion. Those people are never calm and reasoned in their emails. They're always just angry and screaming.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So did we stop that, or did we go back on that, and now we're sharing again, too?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Okay, good. Because it seems a little unconscionable to be like, we're going to let tons more of your people die by not sharing this information.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, I definitely had a hard time trying to explain that to people who are asking me. And I was like, God, I got to text Ryan and find out what the logic is here, man. What is going on?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And I wonder if you have any thoughts about why that is, because you can talk Arab-Israeli conflict and each side can have a well-reasoned kind of calm argument about why they're right or why this is going on and happening the way it is. But with the Russia-Ukraine conflict, there's people who fall in the middle. But the people who are really pro-Putin, they can't just be pro-Putin.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, interesting. Now, Europe can't step into the gap. You mentioned that we have, what is it, 20 times more satellites or something?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Right. Yeah. And Europe has 19, not 13, which your percentage is off by a decimal. I'm not too worried about that. I just mean that they can't basically go, fine, stop sharing intelligence. We've got it covered. The UK and France can't say, we got the whole area covered. Don't worry about it. That's not something that can happen. What about with weapons?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I know we supply a lot of shells to Ukraine and things like that. I know Europe's big thing is we need to scale this up, and they're saying we're going to spend billions of dollars on this. Can this even be done, or is it just, all right, we're going to start building factories, but they're looking at each other like, right, guys? Is it going to happen? Is it possible?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They have to spit scream in your face about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I see. So that explains the social media stuff for sure. But it doesn't really explain the email sent to me that's 17 pages long. Because that person is probably not getting paid. Because that's a really bad use of time, considering I just look at the AI summary at the top and delete it immediately. I read the first five you sent me, pal. You're not getting me again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They're just people that have sucked down... So much Kremlin propaganda that they're basically repeating Kremlin talking points. And again, I'm not saying anybody who has a Russian slant to their bias on this war is doing that. But there's certain people in my inbox where I just go, the only place I've seen this claim is RT or the only place I've heard this claim is the Russian foreign minister.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And when I'm dead, the next guy, he might start listening to you. What's the joke about Europe? They are going to have a meeting to talk about when they might start having the meetings needed to implement this particular plan. I mean, it's just completely ridiculous. They just had no incentive to actually do anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Now they do. I don't love that, but I like the idea that Europe has to arm up. And look, people are going to get angry when I say that. It's safer this way, don't you think? I don't like that they can't rely on the U.S. That sort of is embarrassing. But I do like that they eventually, hopefully, won't have to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Because if something really serious does go down and Europe cannot defend itself, that's really terrifying for everybody, is it not?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Even now? You mean as a matter of principle, they should scale up and pay their way for defense so that they can?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's right. But we have defense resources and Canada has very little. I don't want to crap on Canada. It's good people. It's a good place. I understand they need to spend more on defense. I just don't want people to think I'm picking on Canada. I'm from Michigan. I'm basically a Canadian with shitty health care. I grew up north of parts of Canada, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
As many people from Michigan are fond of saying. And I grew up drinking in Windsor with a bunch of nice Canadians who I would not like to see going up in a fiery inferno as a result of some sort of issue. And their economy as well. I'd like to see that stay strong. I love our previous relationship we had with Canada.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
But tell me more about Europe being able to defend itself, because right now it almost looks like Poland is the military superpower in Europe, which is weird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They don't have a choice now, but yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Because she's probably in the reserves. Oh, so you meet women in the military. That's not what I thought you were going to say.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So clearly you're just looking at everything they have to say. And there's other stuff that's like demonstrably not true. Russia only did this because of this. And actually they started in 2014 and this didn't even happen until 2016. So explain that. That's what I don't really get. That's just like a purely brainwashed kind of person. I guess I answered my own question. They're just fanatical.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They're not mining the border with Lithuania or Estonia, I assume. They're mining the border with Belarus and Russia.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, they're useful in war, unfortunately. Now allow me to share some intelligence regarding the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Rocket Money. You ever sign up for something, totally forget about it, and then realize months later you've been paying for it the whole time? Yes, been there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Many of you don't seem to know or might not know, have no reason to know. But when you use our promo code, it really does help support the show. We don't get a percentage of the thing that you buy, but it lets the company that sells it knows that people are hearing the ad on the show. They're much more likely to renew their ad campaign with us. So if you're signing up, please do use our codes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They're all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. It's a win-win. You get a discount. You help keep the show going strong. Thank you so much for your support. Now for the rest of my conversation with Ryan McBeth. This is really something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So Poland, military superpower, I use that in air quotes because they don't have nukes and stuff like that, and they probably don't have as large of an air force or nuclear submarines like Britain and France do. How many troops do Britain and France have? Look, the British Empire is no more. This is no longer a massive landing force a la World War II. Britain's just kind of chilling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They make good weapons, but I don't know how much they have in terms of personnel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Oh, yeah, because they still had it when I was an exchange student there. But you could also choose to like work in a hospital or an old folks home. And most of my friends did. In fact, I didn't know anybody in the former East Germany who went to the actual army. You just didn't do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I'm sure, yeah. Whenever I explored Eastern Europe, even well into the late 90s, the early aughts, those people in Romania, Poland, they did not like Russia. It wasn't Russian people. They were scared of Russia. And I remember thinking, oh... Legacy from your past. You guys were under the Soviet thumb. You had secret police. I totally understand why you were oppressed. East Germany was the same.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
There's all these tales. If you ever see a Russian driving, get out of the road because they're drunk. They'll run you over. There's no repercussions. That's kind of what you learned growing up in the former East Germany. Older people would tell me this, right? Because they were occupied and they were treated like they were occupied. Not like they were a friendly country.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They were treated like they were under a hostile occupation, which is interesting because West Germany was a completely different situation with the Allies, at least in the 80s and the 70s. By then, it was generations. The former Eastern Bloc never really forgot how much of a threat Russia was.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And of course, Estonia and Latvia, Lithuania and these countries have been for the last 20 plus years getting cyber attacked nonstop by Russia. They kind of never put their guard down because they never really even had a chance to. Maybe there was a period of 10 years where Russia wasn't screwing with them, but maybe not even that long.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's kind of a cool place to specialize going into the 21st century here. Very interesting. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah. Interesting. Lithuania recently found out that those are also in part my family history. So I have a renewed interest in that whole area. Man, there's so many fascinating things to talk about with this conflict. And I know I might be trivializing a little bit because I seem really hyped up and interested in it. And it is a war, which is really disgusting and sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I guess I'm trying to just take a different spin on it because it's happening regardless of whether or not I act sad about it on this podcast, right? We're all upset about the fact that there's a war anywhere of this scale and elsewhere in the world. It's just scarier, I think, because of the threat from Russia. Now, tell me what you think about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
A lot of people go, I don't get why Europe is so worried, why people in the United States are so worried. Putin couldn't even take down Ukraine. It's been three years. They barely had a developed military. What makes anyone think they're then going to also go into NATO, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia and Poland? That's insane. They'll get their asses kicked. Putin is not that dumb.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
What do you think about that counterargument?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I see. So Russia could protect itself from a land invasion, essentially?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's the counter, though. I find that argument a little bit medium persuasive. It's not weak, but it's also, OK, that made sense before we had airplanes, before we had drones, before we had massive warships that could come on land from anywhere that you have coastline. You had to march people through the mountains. And so Hannibal went over the mountains with elephants or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah. Sorry. Expand their empire. Actually, both of these things are true. There's a whole list of things I could have said there. That's interesting and insightful. I hadn't thought about the guy who's just disaffected and is like, why am I single, lonely? My boss is probably going to fire me. How do they get to dot, dot, dot?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Surprise. That's not how it is anymore. That seems like 18th century military thinking. I don't really find it totally persuasive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
How do we know that Russia thinks like that? Has Putin straight up said, hey, we need to go and take these areas because we'll be safer that way? I know like the queen of the czar or something said it 300 years ago, but what about now?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
What about the NATO expansion argument? You want to poke some holes in that? Because people say, well, yeah, we expanded NATO all the way up to their border. Of course, they push back on this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I was just going to say, yeah. And then they tried to move nukes there. And we were like, no way, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And I know that I'm not arguing for this, just so people are clear. But how is Russia invading Ukraine not similar or analogous in some way to nuclear missiles being put into Cuba? And the U.S. is like, fine, we are going to blockade the island with the Navy and possibly sink yours.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
But Serbia has entered the chat, right? And they're not buying it because they got bombed by NATO.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, I understand that. I just I'm mentioning that because, of course, Serbs and other people go, well, NATO's defensive until it's not in which NATO bombing Serbia wasn't justified. That's a whole different podcast. Of course, they were trying to kill all the Albanians, but those people, they weren't NATO members. NATO just went, hey, we're going to do this humanitarian thing and bomb Belgrade.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
As of battalion, Ukraine are Nazis and they deserve to be part of Russia and Putin this. There's got to be some sort of disaffection there because it doesn't make sense otherwise. Who the hell has the time is my first kind of gripe with this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So it's a little bit like they're not offensive, but it could be. They can edge towards that, and who's to say that it's not eventually going to end up that way? Because the conspiracy geopolitics circles online would have you go, actually, the U.S. pushed Ukraine into this fight, hoping that Russia would pick a fight with Ukraine slash eventually NATO, and that would be all she wrote.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I don't necessarily subscribe to that, but... It's not totally insane that NATO could be used offensively.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I feel like I'm lawyering you, so forgive me here. But OK, so NATO, it's not an offensive alliance. Surely Russia knows this. And so that sort of pushes back on the idea that they need to take over the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine in order to defend themselves against the invasion that can't actually happen. Surely they know that it's not possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So why would they bother taking these places over at immense cost?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Of course not. No, that's a good point. I'm also understanding that us saying NATO is not an offensive alliance and they're like, hey, what's the source? And we just say, trust me, bro, that's also not very compelling for them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Ah, I see. That's really interesting and something that nobody has brought up, right? Because everybody's just saying, hey, they're ground down to a nub with no sign of stopping. They're not going into the Baltic states. They're not going into Poland. And what you're saying is, don't be so sure. Because they're attrited, they need to rebuild some vehicles and munitions and things like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
But now they're much more of a capable and flexible force than they were before. When they invaded Ukraine and were rolling the dice, just going, ah, they're too weak to invade these little Baltic states. It's like, OK, so are you willing to bet all of those people's lives on that? Because if so, then go ahead. But if not, then you might want to put some landmines on the border or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I know we're closing in on time. I do have one last question. Speaking of invading Russia, Kursk. So the Ukrainians ran in there, took a bunch of territory, were supposed to get pushed out or never get there. And they're still there, but they're getting pushed out slowly. What do we make of this? Why is this important? Why does this matter?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And so why does that matter? I mean, look, not asking because I want to trivialize the deaths that are going on again. It's tough to be as sensitive as I need to be in this episode. But what is going on there? Why don't they just leave entirely and bring their troops back? What purpose does it serve for them to be there now?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That is a funny metaphor slash analogy. And I hadn't really thought about that. I just find the whole thing quite fascinating. Anyway, this is not why I brought you back on. That sort of... Ended up accidentally being how we started the show here. But I do want an update on Ukraine because we just stopped sending them weapons, supposedly. Is that real?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I wanted to know what you think of this latest ceasefire or the prospects of a ceasefire in Ukraine, because you hear that we're willing to do something as the United States, but only if they give up mineral resources. And that seems OK. Maybe they're going to stop blowing up energy facilities in each other's countries or the Black Sea, something like this. But a lot of it seems to be changing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And a lot of it seems to also be like something for nothing or unenforceable or no real plan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So do we just think that there's not going to be a real ceasefire? Do we think Russia will agree to one, build up their artillery, build a few hundred more vehicles and then just continue?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Even I'm at the point where I'm like, which news is actually real and which is just something I read on Reddit that was written by The Sun, the Daily Mail that is just made up because they want clicks. It's getting harder now to even discern what's fake and not even just fake news, but something that the U.S. government changed their minds 24 hours later.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I believe. Imagine being from Fiji and you get plucked and put in Ukraine. That would be the coldest you've ever been in your whole life by a factor of 100. That's a deployment you don't want if you're a soldier from Fiji plopped into Ukraine in the winter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Lebanon and Egypt, not as cold as Ukraine in the eastern Ukraine in the winter. Absolutely correct. I was curious about this because I know it seems like Russia could just agree to something and break it. And if there's no one there to enforce it, we're just back to square one, especially if Ukraine's military is degraded and not rebuilt in Russia, rapidly rebuild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
The incentives are all misaligned. There's no point in them maintaining a ceasefire if they have a better chance to take over more of Ukraine later on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah, I think that's what everyone's afraid of. Before I finally let you go, I'm curious about an update here in Syria, because I know one of the last episodes, which is our Out of the Loop about Syria, you and I both were kind of like, all right, we are cautiously optimistic about HTS...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And it's like, oh, I didn't catch the backtrack on this. So are we not sending weapons to Ukraine anymore?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
this Islamist group taking over and were worried that they could turn into kind of like a sectarian conflict, a little bit of shades of ISIS, shades of Al Qaeda, but so far so good. And now when I look at news clips, I see Alawites being rounded up and shot and people getting killed all over the place. And it's a little bit confusing as to who is doing that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And is that the government or is that rogue people taking out revenge? What's going on in Syria now with this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And also, let's say that my ethnic group was in charge of the country. I didn't do that. I just go to school. I just go to college or I just raise my kids. Like, yes, maybe there's some privileges like people of my ethnicity get better jobs. But again, it's not my fault. I didn't put Assad in power.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
We don't know. Yeah, it could have changed by now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Huh. We'll have to do another out of the loop on that when there are more developments. Ryan McBeth, thank you so much, man, for coming back on the show for the sixth time. Always a pleasure, Jordan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with geopolitics analyst Peter Zion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
For more about how globalization and our way of life will change dramatically in the coming decade, check out Episode 781 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. All things Ryan McBeth will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
jordanharbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking as well over at 6minutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's so much sooner than I thought. They're running out of armored vehicles. But haven't we been hearing about this since two days into the war? Maybe five days, whatever. I'm giving you a hard time because people have been writing about how Russia's out of ammunition since like week two. And now we're on year three.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's a small number. I thought you were going to add a zero or two to that. That's crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
So other Soviet states ostensibly have nuclear weapons, or did Kazakhstan say, hey, we'll give these back?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional neuroscientist, astronaut, hacker, or real-life pirate. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I guess my question is, people online, they say things like, oh, don't worry, you can't launch a nuclear weapon if you don't have these codes and stuff like that, so it doesn't really matter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
But for me, I'm thinking, if you have the missile in your warehouse, in your country or your territory that you can control, how long does it take to take the top off the rocket or whatever, find the computer that detonates the thing, rip that thing out, and put your own version of it in there? Yes, it requires some specialized knowledge, but...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
theoretically, you can pay somebody to do that or figure out how to do that if you have the warhead in your possession.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Wow. These people have never seen a angle grinder, I guess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
He just sort of went for a joyride and he had a nuclear weapon on board?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
That's mildly terrifying. I mean, we had so many close calls with this thing. Like, what's the story with the Russian guy? They saw the launch and he's like, this doesn't look right. And he didn't launch. And it turned out to be like a reflection. And it almost ended the entire world. You know what I'm talking about?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. To help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, a little update on the Ukraine war.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
They would launch all their stuff if they were trying to take us out, not just three missiles. It doesn't make any sense. Basically didn't sit right with it. It's like a Malcolm Gladwell blink moment where he's, I can't 100% put my finger on everything, but one of the reasons is this, there's something else that doesn't sit right here. Yeah, and he just didn't launch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Yeah. So close call, along with dude joyriding out in an Air Force jet with a nuclear bomb attached to the thing. Okay. So we're worried about Russia collapsing because the country of Russia, not the former Soviet satellite states, but the country of Russia, we're worried that that's going to devolve into what regional sort of warlordism, feudalism, I guess is the right word.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
And then why is it the US's responsibility to go and clean up these warheads? And how would we do that? Why can't Europe do this? Or is it just because... they don't know what the heck they're doing when it comes to this. And we would just automatically end up on the hook.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
I think I call Iran and just say, do you have a billion dollars in untraceable U.S. currency that you can give to me right now? Because I have a warhead with your name on it and you could disassemble the thing and threaten everybody with it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Okay, so I've already sold it. Yeah, it was me. What are you going to do? You're already trying to kill me anyways, probably. I don't have the nuke. Your problem is not solved if you just drone strike my house. Yeah, I don't know, man. Yeah, I think we'd probably do that anyway, just out of pure spite. I hope so. Don't sell those nukes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
It's terrible. I mean, as someone whose family is originally from Ukraine, I mean, you know, way back slash Russian Empire, they got some history there. But the idea that we don't want Russia to fall is sort of interesting, right? Because it's like we need a controlled dissent. Isn't China kind of also in the same boat? Probably also because of the nuclear weapons.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
But two, if Russia is continually busy in Ukraine, they can't really push back on China dictating harsh, low oil prices. And hey, we might just start pushing your borders a little bit. But hey, you need us for Ukraine. So maybe you're going to pick your battles. Isn't this kind of their best case scenario?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1134: Ukraine 2025 | Out of the Loop
Russia's being ground down to a nub in the West and they're in the East buying cheap oil and pushing their luck a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Really? So there's sober people out there that are like getting a kimchi hangover. I love kimchi, by the way, and it's hilarious slash sad that can also give you a hangover. This is what we should have studied. How much kimchi do you need to eat before you get a hangover? Because I bet it's a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, that's funny. They would have been like, oh, man, these berries are craft, man. They're so good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, this one's made by a hipster in Brooklyn who cuts his own trees down and makes his own wood stoves. Those people wouldn't have lasted long. And I think most of us would have been fine with that. All right, so congeners and hops. I did not know about these. What about sulfites? I've heard this word before. I heard they're behind some hangover headaches.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And I've got friends up in Silicon Valley here. They're like, I only drink sulfite-free wines. You can't drink any sulfites. I don't even know what sulfites are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Now, today, are you still feeling the aftershocks of last night's generous pour of bubbly? Did you wake up feeling like you snacked on cotton all night? You're not alone. As common as hangovers are, there's so much we don't know about them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So sadly, it sounds like wine might not be as healthy as they market it. I remember like, oh, this is loaded with antioxidants. There's resveratrol in here and the red wine. There's health benefits. Look how long French people live, even though they smoke or whatever. You hear that all the time, especially...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I want to feel like in the early aughts, that's when they were like, wine's healthy for you somehow. Tim Ferriss, I'm drinking only red wine in my veins.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Well, sort of depressing for some people, for sure. I know some folks really love to fall back on the alleged benefits of drinking red wine, especially, I will say for whiskey drinkers, of which I am one, we're never like, no, it's good for you. We're like, yeah, it's killing you. And then the guy next to you is smoking a cigar. So you're just like, okay, the gloves are off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
This is a vice session. But in the moment, it feels so good. Yeah, now we're gambling. But aside from avoiding sulfites, are there other things we can do to fend off a hangover?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Wait a minute. So I can justify drinking nicer booze because it's an investment and not getting a hangover? Okay, you're gonna have to explain that. It sounds like a pain for my wallet, but why would top shelf booze be any better than the bottle of Mohawk sitting on the bottom shelf that fits conveniently in your pocket? Ask me how I know that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, that was one of those things where I remember looking at the bottom shelf and being like, $3? Holy smokes. What is that? And I remember the guy at the store being like, you don't want that, man. You don't want that. He's like, that's what guys who are sleeping outside come in and buy. And sure enough, he was correct.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I went in that store many times, and that was like the stuff that you buy when you're desperate. But the stuff on the top shelf, which is now, of course, locked, or behind the little plastic thing, that's the stuff that's 80 bucks for a bottle of vodka or more. Hibiki is in there and all the Japanese whiskey. So I guess literally top shelf is better. I just thought it was marketing, branding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
For as long as humans have been drinking, and it's been a long time, we've been battling hangovers. And for just as long, we've been chasing the elusive hangover cure. From vitamin B to greasy food to pickle juice, people swear by all sorts of remedies. But are any of them actually a cure for the hangover? This is Skeptical Sunday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Okay. So painkillers and alcohol in my liver. Yes. An investment in health. So alcohol, congeners, sulfites, there's no escape from some hangover symptoms the next day. You're getting the trifecta slash the multifecta, if that's a word, probably.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I never really knew about the blood sugar, blood pressure thing that you mentioned before. I just figured it was all dehydration and my brain was dehydrated or something. That's what I thought this was until literally right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I've experienced that. I think we all have. And it's like the world is conspiring against you. Your bodies are punishing you for your decisions the next day, and it's not fun. But I thought that's why I just need to drink Gatorade or something like that. And there goes my hangover.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, I just figured I was peeing a lot because I was drinking a lot. Turns out that vasopressin, instead of telling my kidneys, hey man, don't constantly pee, we might need that. It's like, nah, do whatever you want, man. I'm taking the night off. Yeah, okay, now that makes sense. So dehydration is dangerous even when not from alcohol. I think everybody knows that one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
We're diving into the haziness of hangovers and whether hangover cures are miracles or just myths. Joining me is writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. So, Jessica, we have a mystery on our hands because people swear by all sorts of hangover cures from taking a shower to drinking some coffee to eating a certain kind of soup. Are you hungover right now by any chance?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
On the other hand, I'm a slow learner. It's really just spent way too many times being like, I'm going to puke now and then start over. So Acetaldehyde, that's the villain in The Hangover Story primarily?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Discomfort. OK, well, I've seen into the pits of hell, but I guess we can call it discomfort.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So our livers are not great multitaskers. I can relate. Liver, you are not alone. I never knew this, though. Again, the blood sugar thing is a totally new thing for me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
You know what feels good coming out of both ends? The money you'll save on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Shopify. Ever wonder what makes some brands absolutely take off while others just don't? Sure, a great product and smart marketing helps, but the real secret sauce is what's happening behind the scenes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Take brands like Aloe, Allbirds, Skims. They aren't just selling, they are selling smart, and a big part of that is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. They power the number one checkout on the planet, and with shop pay, they help businesses boost conversions by up to 50%. That means way fewer abandoned carts, way more actual sales, and a whole lot more... See what they did there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So if you're serious about growing your business, your commerce platform, better be ready to sell wherever your customers are. On your website, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. And the secret's out. Businesses that sell more, sell on Shopify.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. You ever just feel stuck, like you're overthinking, you're second-guessing, you're maybe just completely burnt out, and no matter how many podcasts you listen to, even this one, you can't quite figure it out on your own?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, we have all been there, and the truth is nobody, not even the most successful entrepreneurs, world-class athletes, even your super put-together friend, figures out everything solo. That's where therapy comes in. It's not about fixing anything. It's about having a support system that actually helps you move forward. With BetterHelp, therapy is convenient. It's online.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
It's way more accessible than the old school sit on a couch setup. They've got over 30,000 licensed therapists covering everything from stress and burnout to relationships and confidence. And if the first therapist isn't quite the right fit, switch anytime, no extra cost. Look, life is complicated enough. You don't have to do it alone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
If you've been thinking about therapy, BetterHelp makes it easy to start. Don't just take it from me. Check out some of their thousands of five-star reviews if you're curious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Don't forget about our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. Every Wednesday, something practical that'll end up in your inbox. It's a two-minute read. It's something that you can apply right away that'll affect your psychology, the way you connect with other people. And if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand-plus episodes, this is a great companion to the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. All right, back to Skeptical Sunday. Hangovers are confusing. So for me, it's like, do I need sleep? Do I need medical attention? Should I lay in bed in the fetal position? Do I lay on the bathroom floor? Alcohol is so intense and I never quite know what to do with it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And I remember even in college, it was like, if someone's drunk, make sure you lay them on their side. And I was like, how is this allowed where you might just die?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
As I get older, the hangovers last longer. It used to be drink all night, wake up, go to the gym back in my early 20s. Now it's one drink at 5 p.m. the rest of the weekend. I'm a little bit slow. I can go for a walk or two, but that's about it. Yeah, drinking's a younger man's game. It certainly is. And I'm a little disappointed that you didn't come fully prepared for this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I have definitely woken up feeling terrible from a drink-induced sleep. It's the worst, especially when you wake up at 2 a.m. and you're like, I'm ready for the day, but I might still be drunk. It just feels like you didn't sleep at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
This all checks out. It's all starting to sound like one giant biological middle finger. But some people never seem to suffer from a hangover at all, which I'm angry at those people. You're on the air.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That works? It does. Wet socks. Got me on that. I think the flank steak actually might make some sense. I don't know. The whole blood sugar thing. Who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I was going to say I'm so jealous, but then I was like, oh, good. And now I feel bad because they're still going to have all the negative effects of alcohol, but they don't get the wake up call like someone like me who goes, oh, I need to stop doing this to my body. They're like, I don't feel anything. I can keep drinking forever. And it makes sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That's why I've got buddies that can just drink like fish and they never complain. And they're 45, 50 years old. And I'm over here praying for a miracle after two and a half beers. OK, what about the whole beer before liquor? Never been sicker thing. Is there any truth to that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So I always assumed that booze before beer, liquor before beer, you're in the clear. I thought that was because... Let's say I start drinking booze and then I'm like, oh, I better stop. And then I drink beer. Now I'm drinking less alcohol and more water much more slowly because the beer is much larger. You know, you're drinking a four ounce shot, then you're drinking a 20 ounce beer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
It takes you like an hour. That said, I tested this repeatedly in my 20s and I was never in the clear, like ever, never happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I did slam an entire bottle of Jägermeister right before we hit record. So I just wanted to be in the zone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, God. Even the smell of that now I can't deal with. All right. No magic tricks. But is there any science behind all the remedies that people swear by? Because there's a lot of stuff out there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. All jokes aside, you know, when you run out of booze and you're like looking through your cabinets back in the day, of course, and you find that bottle of Jägermeister and you're like, we should just drink this thing. This thing where you're supposed to have one after you eat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Let's split the bottle between the three of us, even though we are already three sheets to the wind and it's two o'clock in the morning. And that is, if only I had better judgment when I was drunk. I think that's the problem many of us have. How do you get through a news cycle without alcohol these days? That's the real question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Alcohol, like you said, is literal poison. We wonder why we feel like garbage the next day, even with the gamble of hangovers. Alcohol is just a huge part of culture and socializing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
You don't have to declare this. There's a tax on it. I'm just telling you this is a terrible idea. You do not want to bring this back. So what's the basis of thinking that smelly foods will cure a hangover? Is it the smell or...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, that can't be literal. Is that actual rabbit poop tea?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That's what this reminds me of. Oh, that is vile. I don't know how I would have survived in those days between the saloon brawls and the quick draw duels because you stepped on someone's foot or whatever and chugging rabbit shit tea. It's just such a disgusting place. What about drinking a cup of coffee for crying out loud? They had coffee back then. Come on, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And now, while I go brew a steaming, fragrant pot of rabbit shit tea, I'll leave you with this word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. Airbnb can make that a reality. Hosting on Airbnb is an easy way to earn extra income without taking on a second job, and now, with Airbnb's co-host network, it's even simpler.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in one place, homes.com. We've done your homework. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. It is your support of our sponsors that keeps us going. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are all in one place, searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
The AI chatbot can help you as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. I thought the rule was when you're drunk, you're not supposed to drink coffee. So you're not even supposed to drink it the next morning for the hangover. I suppose that's good to know because usually when I was hungover in the past, I would just load up on caffeine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So does drinking more alcohol help with a hangover? Because I've heard, you know, the whole hair of the dog recommendation, like, oh, have a beer in the morning and then it'll be better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. I suppose drinking a beer at seven o'clock in the morning should raise flags. Okay. Is that where the phrase comes from? Because I thought it was from like a Led Zeppelin song or something, but it's that much older. It's an old expression.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, it almost makes sense. If I just keep drinking, I'll feel better. So ultimately, the only surefire remedy for a hangover is by drinking in moderation? That doesn't sound right to me now that I've said it out loud.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Man, that's harsh and quite rich coming from a trio of universities that all rejected me immediately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Ouch. Yeah, the truth does sting. Rejection hangover.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
But studies have come out about the health benefits of a drink a day or the supposed good that moderate drinking can do for your body or for your health. I kind of mentioned that earlier, right? Like French people live so long because of the wine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, geez. I feel like I've been confused when hungover because I'm like, I didn't even drink that much to warrant this hell. I've also felt like I should have been hungover on days and I'm not. And it's like, wait a minute, I had seven drinks last night and I'm fine. But a few weeks before I had two beers and I just can't function the next day. It's all over the place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I know a lot of people who swear by Gatorade or they drink coconut water. Are drinks like that doing anything or are we just throwing money at the problem slash drinking expensive water?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I really want there to be a magic elixir, but I guess that's just what comforts a lot of us. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So what about popping Advil and Tylenol? Do the painkillers do anything or is it just like that gets rid of your headache, which is the worst for some people?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, so I've probably had a few that I don't remember, thankfully. But I remember one time I went to my buddy's wedding. We drove from Michigan to D.C. So I was already tired, a little dehydrated, right? That's far. Yeah. And we go to the wedding and we walked into the wrong wedding, which is kind of funny. And then we left promptly. Anyway, we made it to the reception.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Liver damage is really scary. So hangovers are not just painful. It sounds like they're actually dangerous or an indication of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, so there's not a 12-step hangover cure, but effectiveness aside, what are the most common and traditional hangover cures?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
OK, but I see a ton of ads for all kinds of hangover cures and I see them on shelves at gas stations and 7-Eleven. Did those do anything? What are those about?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, it's Nobel Prize territory, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I have people that swear by these too in the past. There are many of these alternative remedies marketed for hangovers. If you go to a 7-Eleven, there's probably a whole shelf with just different types of anti-hangover nonsense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And we're drinking and then suddenly it's over. And I'm like, wow, that was so fast that everything is over. And he's like, don't worry, we're going to go to the bar in the hotel and finish and hang out. So we went to the bar in the hotel and I remember dancing and having a lot of fun and throwing down my credit card, which I just left at the bar. I never went to go get it again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I see. So instead of buying a tablet of Tylenol, I'm getting like a hot pink bottle, red contents, sugar flavored Tylenol packed into a 12 ounce beverage instead of just for three dollars or five dollars.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yes. So who profits off the cures, the diners and the dive bars and the people marketing these things or what?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
You know, I was hoping that drinking was going to go the way of cigarettes where young kids now, they vape instead. And they were like, I would never touch a cigarette. I was kind of hoping that they're all like, yeah, I just take edible weed in low doses instead of getting blackout drunk and not knowing where I am. I was hoping there was some sort of shift.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Actually, weed is a lot healthier and better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
None of this stuff is healthy, but there's no way I didn't cause long-term damage to my brain and body drinking as much as I did in my 20s. And it was so dumb, and I didn't even like it. I was just doing it because a lot of people were doing it. Anyway, so drinking's not going anywhere. Hangover cures aren't going anywhere. There's so many homegrown, unusual, cultural cures.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I bought into the pickle juice thing at one point. What's going on with the pickle juice thing? What's that about?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yes, I did it in Europe. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That's right. Yes, that's big in the Midwest.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I see. I don't know about a whole jar of pickle juice. How big is the jar? When I did the pickleback, I want to say it was a shot of whatever it was and then a shot of pickle juice, which I thought was a funny thing to be serving at a bar.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, you market it as a cure. Yeah, sure. Exactly. Why not?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And the thing is, my friends had driven me there. They left a little bit earlier than And I was like, I'll remember where the car is parked and I'll just walk back to the car, not realizing, hey, the car's not going to be there, dummy. My friends left. I need to take a taxi back to their house. But that was way too advanced thinking for me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
also accompanied with several hours of rest so if you just rested without the peppermint pickle smoothie you'd feel better too peppermint pickle that made me feel a little bit sick not gonna lie that's disgusting here drink this it's for your hangover it smells gross oh then you better drink it fast that's a hangover cure no yeah what a great show So are there less stomach churning remedies?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, well, that's obviously a wives tale. I'm curious to hear from our Puerto Rican listeners. Is that a thing you've heard of? Because that seems like a thing that maybe would have died out with this generation. That is so bizarre. I don't think an armpit lemon is going to do the trick. I guess it's a pleasant scent at the bar.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Sunburned tourists marinating in a tropical climate while drinking probably could use a little bit of a lemony glow up. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
The Puerto Ricans are like, oh, I already did mine at home, but you should definitely put this lemon under your armpit, you stanky ass Ohioan. You reek.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, that's insane. Poor frogs. And also, that sounds like something that could make you way sicker than a hangover. I know. Yeah, I put a dead frog in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Just humans trying to outsmart a nasty habit that we should probably quit doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So I walked to the parking structure at the end of the night and it's full of cars. And I find what I think is my friend's car. And of course, it's not my friend's car. And I go, oh, they're not here. I should just wait for them. So I didn't want them to run me over. I didn't want anybody else to run me over. So my idea was to get up onto the hood or the trunk or whatever of that car and lay down.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I've heard of this only in the context of you eat something really bad and then it's in your stomach and you should take it and then you're supposed to vomit. It's not like, oh, there's something in my body and blood. I'm going to take this. You eat something that you know is bad and you take it and then you puke up the whole shebang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, kind of. And it's supposed to absorb stuff, but then you're supposed to get rid of it, not just digest it. A lot of these cures, they sound worse than the hangover. Can you sweat it out by exercising? That used to be one of my strategies. As I mentioned, drink all night, go to the gym.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Okay. So I'm going to go ahead and guess saunas are also not something you should maybe do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. Going for a swim or whatever. So can we get hungover from other things? Is there a such thing as a weed hangover, for example?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That's funny because it sounds like many of the things we try to use to cure hangovers actually just cause hangovers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Good. I should probably wean them off the goods.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, that's the spirit. So the medical answer here is pretty boring. Drink water and don't fall for consuming weird substances.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So that way they would see me when they were done and they would go, hey, Jordan, wake up. We're going to go home. So I lay down on the car. Again, the whole garage is full of cars because it's some hotel parking garage or something like that. And then in the morning I wake up and I go, oh, I'm still on a car. Wait a minute. That wasn't a good idea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Solid advice. So bottom line, folks, hangovers suck. There's no miracle cure. You just have to face the music on that Spotify playlist. Deal with your life choices and remember that this too shall pass. Or you'll eventually crawl to the next bad decision with a little extra help from your friends in the alcohol industry.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Look, in all seriousness, talk to a healthcare professional if regular hangovers affect your quality of life, your personal relationships, your performance at school or work, because the whole I might be an alcoholic thing is real serious, and if you can nip it in the bud early, that is much better than living a decade or more with this. Treatment for problems with alcohol is widely available.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I don't really drink that much anymore. All the jokes aside from this episode, I'm like a one drink per month kind of guy at this rate. And usually it's like, I'm going to have an old fashioned with my lunch for someone's birthday. And I never look back and think, oh, I wish I drank more. If anything, drinking as much as I did in my twenties and thirties is one of my biggest regrets.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So I highly recommend people get off the sauce the earlier, the better. Thank you, Jessica, for distilling this wisdom and officially ruining any hope all of us had of an actual hangover cure. And yeah, maybe we should all just stop drinking. Yeah, I'll drink to that. Cheers. Thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions and feedback direct to me, jordan at jordanharbinger.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Show notes on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm also at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her multiple sub stacks. One is between the lines and the other one is where shadows linger, which sounds pretty ominous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
We'll link to both of those in the show notes. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. Maybe somebody who thinks they got a hangover cure, they might need to hear this one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show about how hormonal birth control can affect a woman's personality and even influence who they pick as a partner.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And I look around and the entire garage is empty except for the car that I'm on. What? Which only to me means someone came out and was like, oh, hell no. There's a guy on my car and went back into that hotel or whatever you needed to do. Got a ride from a friend. I'm lucky I didn't get woken up by the cops.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
To hear more from Dr. Sarah Hill about the problems with taking birth control, check out episode 280 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like podcast. Have you ever wondered how it feels to watch your house burn down, be attacked by an alligator, or learn that your spouse hired someone to kill you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
What Was That Like is the podcast for you, if you're that person. Not the person who got hired to be killed, but the person who wondered, more thankfully. Real people come on every episode to explain the unbelievable situations they've been through. I think it's a funny concept for a show. I kind of wish I'd thought of it because I always get crazy stories from people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Not everything turns into a Jordan Harbinger episode. But What Was That Like? is hosted by my friend Scott Johnson, who's naturally curious and gives his guests the opportunity to share how they've really felt during some of their most surreal experiences. What they did in the morning before an earthquake, what song was playing as a gunman entered, was their stomach growling as they hid?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Guests share everything they remember about their crazy, crazy experiences. So if you want to hear some disturbing slash inspiring firsthand stories about the thoughts that go through your head while surviving a kidnapping or winning the Price is Right, What Was That Like? is the podcast you've been looking for.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Every story is thoroughly researched and fact-checked so you know even the most unreal stories are actually someone's reality. Listen to What Was That Like? wherever you get your podcasts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And I look around and I call my friend and he goes, where are you? And I go, I'm outside. He goes, outside where? And I was like, just generally outside. Yeah. Okay, when you find the house, come on in. Here's the address. I'll text it to you again. I'm going back to sleep. So after that, I was like, this is not healthy. This is a bad idea. Look, this is, again, it's in my 20s.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
This is a long time hence. That was one of the major wake-up calls for me. I remember telling people, like, it's a funny story, and people just going, yo, man, you need to stop drinking. And I was like, maybe you're right. So the worst hangovers involve a promise to never drink again until the next time, of course. Yeah. Yeah, always, always.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So it's obvious to me when I'm hungover, but are there clinical symptoms? I have headaches, but there's a lot more going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, some hangovers are way more manageable than others. It's definitely unpredictable, but why are we doing this to ourselves? Any idea?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Somewhere where watering holes are, yes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So that's interesting. They go, hey, there's a lot of fresh water over there. And everyone's like, ah, don't be such a loser. Come to this one. This is the one that has booze in it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
That's really funny. Like, hey, we need to drink water to survive and maybe get a little bit of a buzz. Maybe just a little bit. We can always drink more water. There's water everywhere, man. Chill. Humans love to drink. I didn't realize this is literally one of the oldest human and animal traditions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So is there a science behind hangovers? Is there a technical definition? Somebody studied this. Lots of people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of incredible people from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
But why do we feel like death warmed over the day after a few drinks? I get that it's from drinking, but what is happening in our bodies?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
So cavemen were hungover too, I guess. We have that in common with our ancestors. That must have been a tough day after a rotten fruit binge because you don't have Netflix back then. It's like, oh, you still want to eat today? Well, you better get your ass up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
At least it's nice and cool in there. I guess you got that going for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, but why after all this time does it still make us feel so horrible? You'd think we would have evolved like all the people that got hangovers from drinking, they stopped drinking so they died. I don't get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
On Sundays, though, it's Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic. Topics such as why tipping makes no sense, circumcision, chemtrails, recycling, astrology, acupuncture, Reiki healing, ear candling, crystal healing, and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I can't help but wonder if in my 20s there was an app to help you drink a certain amount. I would have used it and it would have been all OK. But maybe I'm lucky that I had to count on myself to moderate. Failed ridiculously. And now I don't really drink at all. But here's the other thing. I don't get hungover every time that I drink, in the past even.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
Like I said, it used to be get up after drinking all night in your 20s and just go to the gym. And you're fine. You probably reek, but whatever. You feel fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
What other components? So there's other things in booze other than alcohol that make us hungover?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
What are congeners? I know what sugars and additives might be, but congeners is a new one for me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
I see. So one, that's why I feel like I'm dying after a whiskey binge, but two, that's why all these... Russians and like Yugoslav people are like, you have to drink this. It will not make you hungover. And the truth is like it makes you hungover, but you can drink a gallon of it because there's no congeners because they made it in their bathtub or something. Yeah, got it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1131: Hangover Cures | Skeptical Sunday
And if you're new to the show or you're looking for a way to tell your friends about it, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology and disinformation, crime and cults, and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
So it's not because you're convinced that the public schools are going to transform your kid into like liberal transgender communist ham ass supporter or something like that. You have actual kind of other reasons for distrusting them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers and performers. On Sundays, though...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
If you haven't signed up yet for our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, it comes out every Wednesday. It's a little gem from us to you. Something practical, something you can use and apply in your daily life that will affect your psychology and your relationships. And it usually comes from one of our thousand plus episodes here of the show. Again, you can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And we'd love to see you there. It's a great companion to the show. All right, now back to Skeptical Sunday. Also ich möchte klar sein, und ich weiß nicht, was deine Meinung ist, vielleicht werde ich nicht fragen, aber ich denke nicht, dass Schulen Kinder gay machen oder so etwas. Ich benutze das als Beispiel. Ich auch nicht. Ja, genau.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
We do Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic. Topics like why the Olympics are kind of a sham, why tipping makes no sense, acupuncture, astrology, recycling, diet pills, energy drinks and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
That's true. Few people are solving differences at work through fist fights. I'm sure there's an exception.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Looking back, I've only gotten in fights in school and my job as a bouncer where I was completely in the line of fire for things like physical violence with drunk people at clubs after hours.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, und Bars, die voll von Riff-Raff sind, wo ich in Downtown Detroit gearbeitet habe. Du gehst in einen Kampf einmal im Jahr oder so in der Kinderhochschule und dann vielleicht, wenn du am niederen Ende der Skala bist, wirst du in einen Locker in der Hochschule geschossen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Das ist nicht wirklich passiert in meiner Schule, aber ich weiß, dass Menschen, naja, ich sollte das nicht sagen, das ist nicht bei mir passiert. At my school. It very possibly happened to other people and I just don't know about it. But you're right. Once you get into college, if somebody beats you up, they're getting arrested, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, it's a thing that most people stop doing. And maybe if you're on a sports team, they haze you. But I don't think that's quite the same thing. But yeah, you have an issue with government schools being run by the government. You have an issue with the government doing literally anything. So that does color these episodes that we do together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
But I want to say, if I wanted to get the same viewpoint that I always get, I would just do these episodes myself. Yeah, continue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And if you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are a great place to begin. There are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, cyber warfare, crime and cults and more to help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ich glaube, Lehrer sind unbezahlt. Ich glaube, öffentliche Schulen sind super unterfunded. Und ich weiß, dass viele Lehrer sehr wichtig sind. Und die meisten von ihnen tun das Beste, was sie können. Zumindest diejenigen, die ich auf dem Show höre, tun das Beste, was sie können. Mit 30 Kindern, die sie nicht hören wollen. Kein Budget.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Und sie spenden oft ihr eigenes Geld, damit sie Arbeitsmarker in der Klasse haben, um Dinge zu tun. Und... I think the decisions that have turned public schools into the mess they seem to be were made largely by legislators and some administrators and very rarely by hardworking teachers who are busting their butts to teach a room full of kids who throw chairs at them all day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I think you might disagree, but that's where I stand on this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
So damning and unusual silence from Nick on that one. But let's stick to the hard facts. How many people are actually doing this? It seems like there are way more now than there were back in our days, kids. But that's all I got.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Do you think that's fair, though, yanking your kids out of public school because their teacher is a Democrat, or am I misunderstanding you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Heute auf dem Show, Homeschooling. Vorher das Domain von schrecklichen Kulten oder super religiösen Leuten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, there's a reference that I have not heard in a minute. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Can they just do that though? How does it work? Can you just yank your kids out of school for whatever reason?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
So are you personally in favor of the free-for-all homeschooling laws or lack of laws? Yes, absolutely. So can I ask why? Shouldn't there be some standards?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
You've convinced me I'm pulling the kids out tomorrow. Yeah, no. They go to a weirdo private school where they make mud pies and learn Chinese and the classrooms are like these little trailers where they sit on the floor and roll around and do stuff and maybe they sit there for a little bit and then they go outside and spray each other with water or something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Homeschooling ist über die letzten paar Jahrzehnte viel mehr mainstream geworden, besonders als öffentliche Schulung, nämlich hier in den Vereinigten Staaten, eine ziemlich schlechte Rappung bekommen hat. Ich weiß, dass viele Leute an diesem Thema starke Opinionen haben, also bin ich hier mit professionell starker Opinion-Haver Nick Pell, um uns auf Homeschooling zu schulen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
It's funny because they're wearing these uniforms, but they're filthy and we're like, so do you change them? And they're like, no, it's okay for kids to be dirty. And I'm like, yeah, that's a really good point. Who cares?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I feel like you're judging me for having my kids in any kind of school at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. If you know that you are not educated enough to do it, send your kid to government school. If you know that you're going to explode at your kid and want to strangle them and they're going to be scared the whole time, send your kid to government school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And if you don't have time because you're at work all day, you don't really have a choice, send your kid to government school. But I think put me in the not patient enough column for sure. Alright, so I think you've raised some fair objections to public schools, but what about private schools? My kids, they don't go to a public school. They go to a private school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And it wasn't because we're fancy pants or whatever. I didn't want 35 kids in a classroom. I thought that was a recipe for disaster.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Kannst du kurz erklären, was das ist, für Leute, die es nicht wissen? Nicht jeder ist auf der Freizeit auf dem riesigen logistischen und bürokratischen Mess, das ist, eine Schule für deine Kinder zu finden, die du tatsächlich magst. Und ich weiß, Montessori ist eine große Sache. Ich habe es sogar über und über gehört, aber ich weiß nicht genau, was das ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
So tell me about homeschooling, man, because when we were kids, it was really only the weird family at the end of the block who did this. And then you found out when they ended up on the news or whatever, that they had 19 kids that you never saw and they went to church in somebody's basement or whatever. So how did this all start?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Exactly. No, Jaden asks me questions like that. He's like, how do I see things? And you realize you're either going to make it up or you're going to watch a YouTube video about it. And then you think, I probably shouldn't just make it up. So I've learned, sometimes I'm like, am I teaching him or is he teaching me? He's asking these like fundamental questions about light.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Like, why is there a rainbow when the sun comes through the window in the bathroom? And it's because the shower door is like bending light into different waves and reflecting it off the toilet. And I could not explain that. I realized I had no idea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
What else is out there besides Montessori schools? I know there's, what is it, Waldorf-Method?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
What? That does not sound ideal. What do I know? I can't really do math and I'm 44, but not learning how to read until you're 8, that doesn't sound right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Wie funktioniert das Mixed-Age-Ding? Das klingt wie ein Zimmer, eine Schule, ein kleines Haus in der Prairie. Und tatsächlich, das ist einer von denen, wo ich jetzt denke, ich wette, das funktioniert wirklich gut, weil es klein ist und die älteren Kinder helfen den jüngeren Kindern. Ich weiß nicht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
What about cost, private school versus homeschool? I have no idea how much homeschooling costs, and unfortunately I do know how much private school costs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Savings like that each year. Let's just say I'm starting to feel the Holy Spirit myself up in here. I might find Jesus and retire a decade early with savings like that. That is significant. You could basically pay for my entire kids' education with a couple of years of private school. That's massive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Jahrhundert stattgefunden wurden. Also damals waren viele Menschen nicht überhaupt gebildet. Das ist, wenn du über einen alten, berühmten Figuren liest, und es ist so, dass sie um neun Jahre alt aus der Schule gelaufen sind, um Holz im Hintergrund zu schneiden. Und du denkst dir, oh Gott. Und dann ist es wie Abraham Lincoln.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, it seems like maybe because Alaska, the nearest school, is 13 miles away in three foot deep snow, surrounded by wildlife that wants to kill and eat you, but... You know, it's a great use of all the money you're saving on private school fees. Something from the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. It is your support of our advertisers that keeps the lights on around here. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. Let me play devil's advocate here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
What about parents that are homeschooling their kids, but they're just making like no effort to actually educate them other than because they can't or they just don't actually care?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
You mean researching the subject, just not child torture. Just to be clear, everyone. Hey, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, das ist so schrecklich. Das ist so schrecklich.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
grad students who study these things these days because he just had a passion for knowledge and like a lot of people before television and the internet his hobby was reading and not doom scrolling instagram for hours at a time yeah but what about modern homeschooling because that's obviously a different thing than growing up in an area that like maybe didn't have a school at all and most people dropped out in third grade it's different that's like my mom taught us all about science and she doesn't believe in anything and dinosaurs are fake
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Und ich glaube, du glaubst, dass diese 400 Kinder wertvoll sind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Also zu Ihrem Punkt, wir haben bereits ein System, das die Kinder verhindern sollte, wenn sie verabschiedet werden, während sie heimgeschult werden. Aber das System fehlt. Also die Antwort ist, verbessere das System. Mach nicht ein viel mehr invasives System, das auch vielleicht nicht wirklich funktioniert. Okay, also gehen wir von diesem anerkannten grünen Thema weiter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
We heard why you wanted to homeschool your kid, but are there statistics on why other people do it? Because I'm guessing motivations are wildly different, ranging from we only want to teach religion at home to the government schools around me are really bad or dangerous or whatever. There's got to be a lot of reasons why people do this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Und ich denke, all diese sind perfekte und legitime Gründe, dein Kind nach Hause zu schulen. Ich wundere mich, ob das nur die Erhöhung des verrückten Schulschutzes seit 2007 ist. Das ist, was es mir klingt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ich spekuliere natürlich, weil ich denke, oh ja, Gangs und Schulen und Bullying und vielleicht ist das Teil davon, aber ich wundere mich, ob es auch, hey, ich weiß es nicht, du gehst zur Schule mit einem Bunch von... People and the parents might be insane or have guns around all over and the kids are maladjusted and not being paid attention to. That scares me and Jen too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
We're worried about that kind of thing. I think a lot of parents are worried about that kind of thing. And we thought about homeschooling them because of that and then we realized that we couldn't do it, most likely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I also vaguely remember my high school educational environment being a mixture of, how do I put this, fashion show, battle royale style wrestling match and sleep deprivation competition, if you will, all in one. All that still doesn't mean that compared to us public school scrubs, the homeschooled kids are actually getting a good education though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
But I just remember not being able to focus much on school because it was like... Yeah, I did research the outcomes and I think the outcomes matter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
So this is probably a dumb question, but why do you assume that homeschooled parents are more engaged? By definition they have to be, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Das geht wahrscheinlich auch für öffentliche Kinder. Kinder, die mehr sozial sind, haben bessere soziale Fähigkeiten. Große Überraschung. Okay, und was ist mit dem Nachwuchs? Mehr das langfristige Ergebnis des Homeschooling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I'm curious about trades. I'm surprised to hear they're less likely to go to college, given what you said earlier about parental engagement and all that. What's the deal with math performance, do you think?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I don't even remember what trig is. It sounds like something to do with shapes. Triangles. Triangles, got it, okay. I remember liking that one, but I hopped out at pre-cal or whatever it's called. What other outcome-based data do we have?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
20.000 Euro pro Jahr mehr, was ich als beeindruckend und bedeutend finde. Das ist interessant. Also sind sie weniger möglich, nach der Schule zu gehen, aber sie sind mehr möglich, eine bedeutende Menge mehr Geld zu verdienen als die Anzahl. Das macht mich fast so, als ob ein paar von ihnen in die Verhandlungen gehen und Jobs bekommen, die tatsächlich existieren oder so etwas. Ich bin gespannt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Es gibt wahrscheinlich nicht genug Daten darüber, aber das ist ziemlich kompensierend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, schau, du kannst wahrscheinlich eine signifikante Menge Geld dafür machen. Einen zusätzlichen 20.000 Euro pro Jahr zu verdienen, ist eigentlich nicht so hart, wenn du die sogenannten Produktionsebenen besitzt. Du bist derjenige, der die Karten verdient. Und das ist ziemlich kompelling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Es ist nicht kompelling genug, um mich mit meinen Regretten den ganzen Tag zu beschäftigen, aber es ist kompelling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I'll tell you, man, if I had started school an hour later, which I was able to do my junior year because I was able to shuffle classes around, if I'd started school an hour later and actually gotten adequate sleep, there was a couple of guys that disrupted the entire class in any class they were in. Like, they would be spitting on people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And I remember complaining and being like, can we get rid of that guy? He's the only guy in class that's yelling and spitting and playing music and being a jerk. And they're like, trust me, we have tried to get rid of this kid for his entire high school career. There's a reason he's a sixth year senior.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Really, like to be away from that, it would have been an extra 10 to 15 percent of mental bandwidth for everybody who had to be within 10 feet of that idiot. So say that people want to evaluate homeschooling. How do they go about that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
For what it's worth, I think you've been pretty fair about this, other than the teacher thing, which I disagree with. Especially given that I know you have really strong opinions about homeschool and an obvious, in case anyone hasn't noticed, libertarian lean. So I appreciate you coming through on this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I know. I'm trying to avoid getting a bunch of hate mail, but thanks for reminding everybody to warm that keyboard up after this episode.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Thanks for the education today, Nick. And thanks to you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to Jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Hate mail to that same address. Show notes on the website at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts and ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer but not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Also, we may get a few things wrong here and there, especially on Skeptical Sunday. If you think we really dropped the ball on something, definitely let us know. Y'all know how to reach me. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
What was so compelling about the idea of teaching your own kids? Because the idea of keeping my kids home from school all day and trying to get them to sit still and listen to me, it's one of my worst nightmares. I don't know how I could possibly do that. A lot of parents say that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
For more with Terry Crews, check out Episode 830 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I can get behind that. They definitely crush your spirit and curiosity. That's called first grade, right? That was the idea, almost, behind that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And it was in the 80s when things really changed. So back then, maybe you actually needed to know how to teach your kids. It seems like a good idea. What changed in the 80s?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ich glaube, wir haben Evangelikalen im Publikum. Ich bin eigentlich interessiert, ihre Gedanken darüber zu hören, besonders wenn sie nach Hause geholt wurden. Und auch um klar zu sein, wir blamen nicht Evangelikalen für den Start eines seltsamen Hochschulkultes, oder?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I know you are one of those people with super strong opinions about homeschooling since, as you said, you were a homeschooled dad for a while for your own son. And I have to say, again, to be clear, I admire people who do this. As I implied earlier, I really don't think I have the patience for it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
I know that's a separate point, but okay, if you want to teach your kids that evolution doesn't exist, look, I disagree with you on that and I think you should teach science, but I'm also sort of in awe of the fact that you can get your kid to sit still to listen to that. And also that you care enough to do that. It's such a heavy lift.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ich habe dich schon lange kennengelernt und es sah ein bisschen aus, wie du es tun kannst. Ich fühle mich, als hätte ich lernen können, wie man es tut, aber es klingt einfach furchtbar. I think it's awesome that your son is so interested in those subjects. My son thinks science means blowing things up because he watches YouTube, but he's not wrong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
That is definitely one of the funnest parts of science. And maybe you can tell by my use of the word funnest that I was not homeschooled.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Ungewöhnlich. Es ist nicht ungewöhnlich. Nein, es ist nicht. Meine Mutter war eine öffentliche Lehrerin in Michigan. Wir hatten große Klassenräume. Sie hat mir gesagt, dass ihre Freunde, die noch arbeiten, noch größere Klassenräume hatten. Ich lebe in Kalifornien. Ich stelle meine Kinder in die Schule. Eine der ersten Dinge, die wir fragen, ist, wie viele Kinder in der Klassenräume sind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Es kann von 20 bis 35 sein, je nach der Schule für öffentliche Schulen. Und das ist unglaublich groß für einen oder sogar zwei Lehrer. Und es gibt viele Lehrer, die schon in den Show geschrieben haben, die wirklich verletzt sind. Und sie sagen Dinge wie, sie geben zehn Kinder in meinen Klassenraum. Zehn Kinder! Und es ist wie, oh mein Gott, das ist ein ganzer Klassenraum.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Und ich habe einfach genug Zeit, wie ich gesagt habe, mit zwei meiner eigenen, oder sogar mit einem. Jaden zu sitzen und zu lesen ist schwer. Zwei oder drei Wörter zu lesen. Also kann ich nicht mal 30 oder mehr vorstellen, die natürlich auch denken, dass sie mich nicht hören müssen, weil ich nicht ihr Vater bin.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, man, that makes sense. Like I said, Jaden's got like a five-minute attention span. I don't even really think it's five minutes. I think it's five adult minutes, but I think in reality it's more like 30 to 60 seconds at a time. And then he wants to like spin around once or lay on the floor and get back up or do something else for a minute.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
And he's five years old, but when I'm patient with him, which is not my strong suit, he can read, he can do the thing. But he needs to run around the table or like jump off the couch and land in a pillow and then do the next word. It's just the thing. He can't do that in a classroom. So we're a little bit nervous about how school is going to go for him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Das ist, warum wir damals, in unserem Tag, morgens um die dumme Uhr aufgetreten waren, um für die Schule bereit zu werden, etwas zu essen, das nach Pizza riecht, um 10.30 Uhr. Und um 2 Uhr waren wir fertig. Aber damals war es, rauszuholen und die Felder zu helfen oder was auch immer. Und Hey, I get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
It sounds like it sucks from the kids' perspective, but other than it sucks, what's really wrong with that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher Nick Pell. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Er liest Bücher für 5. Jährige zu Hause. Das klingt wirklich interessant. Also sie haben ihn mit null Kontext zu lesen. Und schau, ich bin kein Lehrer, aber das klingt nicht so, wie es die Leute lesen. Und ich kann sympathisieren. Ich studiere Chinesisch, richtig? Also muss ich Flashcards machen, um die Wörter schneller zu lernen. Und ich lese auch Dinge in Chinesisch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
Aber wenn ich Flashcards mache, Man, I miss a lot of those words because there's no context. So if it looks like something else, I just end up guessing between those two and I get it wrong sometimes. The Chinese symbolic equivalent of could versus cloud. If you say he looked up and he saw a could in the sky, you would know that you read it wrong and you would say cloud to yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1119: Home Schooling | Skeptical Sunday
With a flashcard, it's isolated and you don't get that. So you're right, it's not a natural way to read or learn. And I'm actually quite surprised that a teacher did that because... I'm kind of going, what am I missing, where that's not obviously the wrong way to test this particular thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, so this was a thing that I hadn't really given a lot of thought to when I first asked you to start researching this for me, like you said. So, yuck. I don't know how to react to that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Bis zum nächsten Mal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Vielen Dank. Vanta not only saves you time, it can also save you money. A new IDC white paper found that Vanta customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits and the platform pays for itself in just three months. Join over 9,000 global companies like Atlassian, Quora and Factory who use Vanta to manage risk and prove security in real time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
And yes, it can trigger panic attacks and other emotional disturbances in people who are sensitive to that. So if you're one of those people who might find this difficult slash impossible to listen to, or you got young ones around, maybe skip this episode for now. All right. I got a really disturbing email a few days ago and it had me a little bit nervous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. It is your support of our sponsors that keeps the lights on around here. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support this podcast are all in one place. JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. How are people getting that incriminating material, sexually incriminating whatever material of minors then? If they're not getting all the stuff I make off the dark web... Okay, so let me explain this. For those who don't know, catfishing is when you pretend to be someone online that you're not for the sake of seducing or befriending or scamming someone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So you might pretend that you're some hot bitch Babelicious 25-Jähriger, ja, ich habe Babelicious gesagt, wenn in der Realität du nur ein 44-Jähriger bist, der den Podcast macht. Und es war lustig an der Zeit, als ich in der Hochschule war, war ich auf AOL, richtig? Du würdest DM'en oder was auch immer, du sendest instant Messungen zu Mädchen deiner Art, die du in deinem Bereich finden könntest.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Manchmal war da ein Typ, der immer seine Fotos rausgab und ich dachte mir, wow, dieser Typ ist ein Modell. Es war ein Bild von einem Typ, der ein Modell war, klar. Er war jung, aber er war ein Surfmodell oder so. Also war meine Freundin Jessica wirklich interessiert in diesem Typ. Und sie war so, möchtest du mich mit ihm treffen, weil ich ihn nicht kenne.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Also war es nahe meiner Arbeit, dieses Filmtheater. Und sie sagt, okay, er ist hier. Wenn ich nicht zurückkomme und in 10 Minuten sage, dass es sicher ist, was auch immer, ich kann mich nicht genau erinnern, was es war. Sie rennt zurück und sie sagt, es gibt einen alten Mann da draußen. Er hat gesagt, oh, sorry, ich bin nicht Drew.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Und dann hat er mir 20 Dollar gefordert, um ihn in den Auto zu sehen. Das ist, was passiert. Also dieser Junge war im Grunde Highschool-Jährige, um in die Parkingstruktur zu kommen und dann zu sagen, hey, sorry, ich habe dich gedupft, aber ich gebe dir 20 Dollar, wenn du mich siehst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Und ich bin so, wir haben darüber gelacht, aber 2020 Hindsight, wir sollten absolut in die Polizei gegangen sein, weil dieser Kerl war ein Sexverurteilter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
It said that it had all kinds of evidence that I was a gross sexual pervert. Guilty. Pictures of me rubbing one out, so to speak. Even pictures of me and my wife in bed. Now, that would be bad enough. Aber die E-Mail hat auch gesagt, dass wenn ich nicht etwas ernsthaftes Geld verkaufe, in der Form von untraceable, oder eigentlich super traceable, Bitcoin, Kryptowährung.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So for anybody who needs a quick refresher, those were two super high-profile child abductions that took place, I think both were in the 80s. They were both in the early 80s. Adam Walsh was like 81 and Johnny Gosch was 83. So everyone our age remembers those because they were all over the TV and parents essentially used these as... Nicht Parabels, weil sie wahr waren, aber Warnzeichen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Sie würden es benutzen, um uns über Stranger Danger zu warnen. Und John Walsh, Adams Vater, der Name könnte familiar sein, weil er, glaube ich, Amerika's Most Wanted startete. In Teilen wegen dieses. Ich weiß nicht, die ganze Hintergrundgeschichte.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
This is a totally different world in the 70s and early 80s in terms of child safety. I remember we had, in the county where I grew up in Michigan, we had the Oakland County Child Killer. I mean, that's just scary, even saying it out loud again. And I'm pretty sure they caught that guy. But you're right, there was a lot of just...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Somebody went missing and it wasn't because their stepdad or their parents took them. It was a total stranger and it was really freaking scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
That's it right there, you know? Yeah, it's absolutely true that if you commit some horrific sex crime against a child that you've abducted, you're not going to leave them alive to tell the tale. Yuck. That makes sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Leute denken, es ist untraceable. Es ist die am meisten traceable Sache jemals. Es heißt die Blockchain, Leute. Sie werden all diese geheimen Informationen lecken. Sie werden es öffentlich machen. Glücklicherweise für mich, ich wusste, dass das ein Scam war, weil ich all diese Art von Scams in der Vergangenheit gehört habe. Viele Leute kennen es natürlich nicht besser.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
It didn't even used to be a story. You say non-custodial parents. This is like, I get a divorce, my wife ends up with the kids, and I'm like, I don't like that outcome, so I just go and grab the kids when they're at school, and I say, I've got the kids now, and I fly to Saudi Arabia.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Denken Sie, dass Leute das in großen Nummern tun?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
And then it's game on. Kids don't just get grabbed in broad daylight anymore. It's super safe to be a kid outside now. But, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Weißt du, wo deine Kinder sind? Das ist lustig. Hast du das je gesehen? Das ist lustig. Weißt du, wo deine Kinder sind?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Sie verlieren viel Geld, nicht zu erwähnen viel Schlaf, auf diesen Sexstorchen-Skams. Und in manchen Fällen können Menschen sogar sexuell verletzt werden von ihren Sexstorchenisten. Schlimmstens, viele Male sind Sexstorchenisten, das ist ein schwieriges Wort zu sagen, für mehrere Gründe, tatsächlich Kinder zu targetieren. Und danach etwas, das viel wertvoller ist als nur Geld.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
If I came home too late, they were like, where did you go? Oh, I biked all the way down to three towns over and went to an arcade where drug dealers hang out. And they were like, oh, okay. Try to come home a little bit earlier because it's dark and cars can't see you. Nobody was like, you're going to get abducted. No.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, also was sind einige der anderen Gründe, weshalb Kinder jetzt sicherer sind, außer Helikopter-Parenting?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Ich wollte, dass er sich bewusst ist von Priesterabsturz. Ich bin überrascht, dass die Kirche hatte.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Mittlerweile ist das Kind nur im Mittelpunkt einer Kleidung. Erinnerst du dich daran, als du ein Kind warst? Ja, das war lustig. Ich kann die 80er-Jahre-Karpelle auf meinen Händen fühlen, die ich gerade gesprochen habe, aber meine Mutter ging mit Angst ballistisch. Sie würde bei der Zeit, als ich rauskam, vibrieren. Meine arme Mutter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Ich habe wahrscheinlich eine Jahrhunderte von ihrer Leben verpasst, so dumme Scheiße wie das. Jesus.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Also wie behältst du dich und deine Kinder sicher? Und haben wir zu weit gegangen in unserem Wunsch, Kinder zu schützen, dass wir sie tatsächlich verletzen, anstatt sie zu helfen? Nun, es ist ein dreckiges Job und es ist eine Schande, dass jemand es macht. Hier, um mich zu helfen, alle ein bisschen sicherer auf der Internet zu halten, ist Schreiter und Forscher Nick Pell.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
What do the statistics say about kids and online safety? Because I'm guessing that even online exploitation and abuse is rare, just in sort of absolute terms.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Do you think they're all legitimate? All those reports are somebody called to report something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I get how kids could overreact or misunderstand something, especially when they're just self-reporting in a poll or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Also Nick, hast du jemals diese E-Mails gesehen? Ich fühle mich, dass sie diese Tage super üblich sind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Und das ist besonders wahr, wenn du über private Messungen sprichst. Guck, ich stimme dazu. Gründer mit guten Intentionen fliegen nicht in deine Kinder-DMS, weil sie darüber sprechen wollen, etwas in guter Glauben zu sagen. Und das ist das Ding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Ich will hier nicht zu viel überlegen, aber was sind die negativen Auswirkungen von Kindern, die zu vorsichtig sind bei Strangers?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Does that really happen, though, or is that just some old person, like, we used to drink from the garden hose? It sounds like one of those talking points.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
No one wants to think about some weirdo watching you in your home, no matter what you're up to, no matter what you're doing. That's right. Like sleeping with your wife, being with your girlfriend, that's obviously disturbing. But it's kind of disturbing no matter what is going on, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Remember about the woman who's getting charged for letting her 10-year-old walk to the park alone? That one was, that's one still baffling. The kid in Georgia who walked to the park alone. And it was like a mile away. And the mom is, she went to jail. Or at least there's a mugshot. Yeah, crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
And that's where the real danger lies. That's right, folks. Save that sextortion Bitcoin so you can support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Therapy isn't just for crisis moments, by the way. It is about building resilience, setting boundaries, which many of us need to do, and becoming your best self.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I mean, even if you're just sitting there reading the New Testament like I always do every weeknight, you don't want some creepy weirdo using your home electronics to spy on you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
With 30,000 plus therapists and 5 million people helped, BetterHelp makes getting support simple, flexible, and stress-free. So if you've been considering it, and I recommend that you do consider it at least, this is your sign to start. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash jordan to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash jordan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. Und was ein Zuhause macht, ist mehr als nur das Haus oder das Gebäude. Es ist die Location, es ist die Nachbarschaft. Wenn du Kinder hast, sind es auch Schulen, naheby Parks, Transportoptionen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Das ist, warum Homes.com über und über geht, um den Homeshoppers die in-depth Informationen zu bringen, die sie brauchen, um das richtige Zuhause zu finden. Es ist so schwer, nicht immer zu sagen, Zuhause. Und wenn ich in-depth Informationen sehe, rede ich deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student-teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in one place, homes.com. We've done your homework.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every single week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like and trust. I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at 6minutenetworking.com. I know that networking just sounds like a gross, cringy word. This course is super easy, very decidedly non-cringe and down to earth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
It's not awkward. It's just very practical exercises that will make you a better connector, a better colleague, a better friend and a better peer. In 4 to 6 minutes a day, 5-minute networking was taken. That's all it takes. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. Okay, so this seems like a good segue back into the sextortion of kids topic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So walk us through what it's like when the sextortion scheme drops on a kid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I think that's the key difference. A lot of kids are just not getting the level of supervision that they need when they're staring at the box and the parents are sitting next to them reading. They have no idea what's going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Great. Alright. Thanks for coming on Skeptical Sunday. I'll see you next time. I wish it were that simple. Obviously, there's a lot more to this because...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Okay. Guck, vielleicht ist das eine Rezepte für einen Desaster. Dein Kind gibt Geheimnisse jemandem online und sie kennen nicht wirklich die Person, oder sie kennen die Person kaum, oder sie denken, sie kennen die Person, aber es ist eine andere Person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
A lot of show fans know I used to help the police catch pedos on America AOL way back in the 90s. And I will spare everyone that story. But the Internet and Predators are kind of an iconic duo. Keep walking us through how these creepy weirdos target kids. What's the groomer thing that you mentioned?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Aber wie geht es von, oh, du magst Fortnite auch, zu geben mir Geld?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I would 100% have been hooked by this when I was in high school. And I don't know how much I've changed, I gotta be honest. When I was a teenager, I had zero self-control. Now I have a layer of self-control over kind of the same brain, unfortunately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Now you're like the same as every band idol that girls love and have posters of on their wall. But okay. Yeah. Fish in a barrel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, Mann. Jugendliche sind so unbequem in ihrer eigenen Haut, wie in deiner vorherigen Geschichte. Sobald der Predator das erste Bild hat, ist das alles, was sie brauchen. Du brauchst nicht eine Bank von 20, um ein Kind zu bekommen, das vulnerable und overexposit ist. Genau, weil der Punkt ist,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Is the predator really going to do anything, though? I mean, you mentioned the whole blasting the picture out to the entire school. What are the chances that a perp is actually going to do that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So what can people do to educate their kids about this? Because now that we're all terrified, what do we do with our kids? They're not going to believe anything we tell them, theoretically.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
What if the kid has already been a victim of a scam? What do you do then? Because I've heard people commit suicide over stuff like this. It's horrible. I've actually seen cases, I think it was in Michigan, where these two kids that were scamming other kids and sextorting them, I think they were like Nigerian immigrants or something like that,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
They went to prison for at least a decade and change because they were actually encouraging their victims to kill themselves. And one of the kids actually did that. So it's not just, oh, they got the kids nudes and then the kids stole mom's credit card. This can have just absolutely horrifically terrible consequences.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Das ist eine seltsame Gruppe zu arbeiten, Mann. Verrückte.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, it seems like, just file this web form and we'll call you. It's like, we want some people to have a place to report things so they feel better, but that's all that is. I would not have very high confidence in the FBI finding whatever dude in Kyrgyzstan Es scheint nicht, dass sie für diese Kriminellen gehen werden.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Das trägt mit Dingen aus, die ich auf diesem Show gelernt habe. Die meisten Pädophilen verurteilen nie, weil sie wissen, dass es schrecklich ist und sie es nicht vorstellen können, es jemand anderem zu tun. Die Verurteilten, das hat mich überrascht. Wir hatten ein ganzes Video über Pädophilie, das war ganz bemerkenswert und gruselig. Schaut es euch in den Back-Katalog an.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Eine der Dinge, die ich über dieses ganze Thema faszinierend fand, war, wie ich gesagt habe, wenn du ein Pädophil bist, bist du wahrscheinlich nicht ein Verurteilter, weil du weißt, dass es schrecklich ist. Aber die Menschen, die sich verurteilen, sind oft nicht wirklich Pädophilien. Sie sind nicht wirklich betroffen mit Kindern. Sie wollten nur, dass sie sich verletzen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Someone and children are accessible and defenseless. So a lot of people who are sex offenders against kids, they're not actually even really pedophiles. They're just sicko psychopaths that wanted to hurt somebody and children were an easy target, which is somehow even more screwed up. These people are the worst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I can see how a lot of teenagers would just ignore the stuff about proper security, but then would eventually remember like, oh yeah, dad said that if I ever got tricked into doing this, that it's not my fault and that he'd have my back. And it's embarrassing, but I remember him saying this and kind of have to get into that. You have to have that little seed planted in their brain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I thought I was going to live forever when I was about 15 years old.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, that's scary. 64% of victims report that threats get worse with greater compliance. I think the thinking, too, is that it's probably not super hard to get kids to share images of themselves, because It's so normal these days to sext your boyfriend or your girlfriend or even somebody that you're just flirting with these days on various social media apps.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I've seen stats about how pervasive this is. It's just a little scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Für alle Kinder, die zu diesem Thema hören, die in diesem Weg verletzt werden, müssen Sie diesen Podcast jetzt ausmachen und einen vertrauten Älteren sprechen. Vielleicht fühlen Sie sich nicht zufrieden, mit Ihren Eltern darüber zu sprechen, was passiert, also sprechen Sie mit einem Lehrer. Du würdest diesen Art von SEO-Eingabe lieben. Das ist richtig.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
That's right. It's a Chinese hacker who has all the goods. So put it back in your pants, your iPod that is, and make sure you take note of what we discussed today. So while this is all pretty grim material, I actually really appreciate you, Nick, for digging through. This is kind of a dirty one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So, you educated us here and I know you had to sift through all that, so I really, I do appreciate that. Thanks everyone for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to jordan at jordanharbinger.com, show notes at jordanharbinger.com, advertisers, deals, discounts and ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yes, I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Ihr hört jetzt eine Vorlesung des Jordan-Harbinger-Shows mit Amanda Katarzy, die in einem Kult geboren wurde und später Sex und Arbeit verbreitet hat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher Nick Pell. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Is that math correct? I genuinely have no idea and I'm not getting out my phone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
To hear how she escaped her dire situation, check out Episode 631 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Untertitelung. BR 2018 Das ist, wenn du bemerkst, dass Dinge nicht so gut funktionieren, wie sie früher waren. Deine Beine, dein Körper, vielleicht sogar dein Haar. Vital Proteins steigt ein, um diese Bereiche unterstützt zu halten, damit du aktiv sein kannst und was du liebst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Vital Proteins ist die Nummer 1 Kollagen-Peptid-Brand in den USA, damit sie wissen, was sie tun. Es ist super einfach zu nehmen, einfach eine Tasse zu deiner Kaffee, Smoothie, sogar Wasser zu geben. Es riecht nicht einmal wie etwas, also blendet es sofort ein. Die Schlüssel ist Konsistenz. Machen es ein tägliches Habit, ist, wie du die Vorteile siehst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yes. So regardless, your point is that's a lot of money for not a lot of time, effort or risk on the part of the scammer, right? They just shoot this stuff out there and if one person responds, they've made a good hourly rate messing around with this crap.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Sure, especially if you live in a developing country where that money goes really far. And, of course, you have zero morals about how you make your money in the first place. I suppose that's true. But how many people are actually falling for this? I wonder. Are there hard statistics on how often this is actually working?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, not that all boomers are idiots, but some boomers are. And they fall for stuff like this. And also millennials like you. So how do you know they were Russian? I'm a Gen Xer. Okay, whatever. Close enough. We're on the line. We're on the line, but I'm mad lazy and don't care about my work. Oh good, that's always a good quality in someone who works for this show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker and during the week, We have long-form conversations with a variety of incredible people, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers and performers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
How do you know the scammers were Russian? They're always Russian. Okay, I can't really argue with that logic. Okay, this is one of those, the views of Nick Pell are not endorsed by the Jordan Harbinger show. Anyway, did you report that? I did the first time. What do you mean the first time? This happened more than once? This happened twice in one week. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, definitely let's talk about how you feel about that, because that's a kick in each nut.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I get that. Once you send somebody 500 bucks for this, the scammer's not like, oh, thanks, buddy, guess I gotta find a new victim and running away. They're just gonna keep juicing you until you give up or you run out of money or whatever, especially if they're basically safe and sound halfway around the world and you've proven yourself to be a sucker who will send that money.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
On Sundays, though, we do Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions on that topic. Topics such as recycling, chemtrails, banned foods, GMOs, toothpaste, crystal healing, diet pills, energy drinks and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Gibt es noch etwas anderes? Ich habe heute einige Fishing-E-Mails bekommen, die mich für meine Krypto-Passphrase fragen, um meinen Account zu verweisen, natürlich. Gibt es noch etwas anderes? MetaMask-Support, Mann, sie wollen immer deine Seed-Phrase. Das ist richtig, sie wollen immer die Geheimphrase, die du niemandem geben sollst. Gibt es noch etwas anderes, was Leute tun können?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Ich meine, ich weiß, ja, klick nicht auf die Links, schick diese Leute Geld, aber okay, was noch?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So I would suggest that you put Krebs on security on your radar. That's a good one. For those unaware, this is a security website that monitors a lot of emerging exploits and scams. And it's good to keep on your radar so that you can keep yourself and your family safe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
And I want to admit right now, I've fallen for weird Internet scams, not ones that require you to be greedy or say that they have nude pictures of me. Just some of this stuff is incredibly complex. We joke about, oh, you're a boomer and you're out of touch. Anybody, even the most savvy folks can fall for this stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
I know scam researchers that have fallen for scams, so you just gotta have your wits about it. Yeah, it's crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
For sure. The last thing that anyone getting into this needs to do is become super paranoid and have their life grind to a halt. That's one of the unfortunate side effects of getting scammed. Some people get a little bit too conservative.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, and I always appreciate it when you do that, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, crime and cults and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, I have seen this. So I got a scam email without photos, and I shared it on an episode of this show on Feedback Friday. And a bunch of listeners were like, oh, I think I got the same email, but it had photos of the outside of their home. Because again, we're back to being freaked out about the very idea that somebody can see where you live.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
If they send me photos of me in my house, now I'm scared. But this is like a photo of my garage. Okay. That's not too scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, the front door taken from a moving vehicle and the last four digits of your phone number, exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Und wenn sie die Beweise nicht zeigen, ist es, weil es keine gibt. Es existiert nicht. Er sitzt im Auto und er öffnet den Mittelpunkt und es gibt schwarze und weiße Fotos von dir da drin, küsst jemanden. Aber es ist ein totales Verständnis, weil diese Person dich geküsst hat und blablabla. Das ist jeder Film, oder? Das ist jeder Szene. In that movie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today we're going to be discussing a pretty gross topic, the sexual exploitation of adults and children. We wanted to put that up front because all kidding about triggering and stuff aside, we know that this is a very emotional topic for a lot of people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So I feel like there's this big panic going around. Actually, that was maybe just the Tetris movie, but that was the last time I saw that scene. There's a Tetris movie? Yeah, oh, it's actually pretty good. It's the story of how Tetris got to the United States out of the Soviet Union.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
There's like KGB intrigue, which is probably hyperbolic nonsense for the movie only, but they show how the guy kept going back and forth and how they invented these different parts of the game. It's actually shockingly good for a movie that's about an 80s video game. I really enjoyed it. That's our unsolicited recommendation here on Skeptical Sunday. Watch the Tetris movie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1128: Sextortion | Skeptical Sunday
So I feel like there's this big panic going around about all of this sextortion, the scams, they've got my nudes. I'm kind of at a loss for why, because so far it sounds like what you've got is dark web data brokers selling people's information, some extremely gullible people falling for it. Hey!
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Oh my god, he like hides them. I'm just trying to throw everybody under the bus now. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
That is a good point. Fizz and caffeine. Okay. You know what's actually fit for human consumption? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, cyber warfare, crime and cults and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Heute, Fritos, Figs, French Fries, Foie Gras und Fondue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Wenn Sie sich fragen, wie ich alle die tollen Autoren, Denker und Kreatoren auf dem Show jede Woche beobachten konnte, ist es wegen meiner Netzwerke, dem Kreis von Leuten, die ich kenne, liebe und vertraue. Und ich lehre Ihnen, wie Sie Ihre eigene Netzwerke gratis bauen, für persönliche Dinge, für Geschäftsstoff, das ist wirklich egal. 6minutenetworking.com ist, wo Sie es finden können.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Back to Skeptical Sunday. Fake Foods are more than just additives, right? There's a lot of actually just totally fake stuff. Or like the bulk of it's fake.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, ich erinnere mich an das. Oh, wieder so gut und enttäuschend. Warum? Ja, was ist mit dem Nozzle? Es war wahrscheinlich so wie ein Squirtgun-Method mit dem du es auf deinen Hotdog eröffnest.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, wie 1% war 100% echte Parmesan. Ich bin nicht überrascht. Der Tipp ist, es ist in einer Schale und es muss nicht in den Refrigerator gehen. Man könnte nicht 100% Parmesan erwarten. Woodpulp jedoch, wie wurde das sogar erlaubt? Oder war das, weshalb sie in die Gefängnis gingen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Hey, some living organisms can actually eat this without dying. So technically, and the judge is like, okay, I'll see it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Die Linie zwischen dem, was das echte Essen ist und dem, was das falsche Essen ist, ist ein bisschen blöd. Was konsumieren wir bei jeder Mahlzeit? Wie können wir das verbreitete Web von Ingredienzen und Intentionen und Konsequenzen der Essen, die wir essen, von lab-gegrown Mehl zu artificiellen Geschmacken, wie können falsche Essen unsere Gesundheit, Umwelt, Gesellschaft beeinflussen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ah, so if they had labeled it Wood Pulp Parmesan, then there would have been no problem selling this stuff to everybody. Oh, that's so disappointing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, oh, you get the fancy Wood Pulp Parm.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I want to try that mahogany parm. Gross. The fact that the government is okay with giving people fake food, to me, is crazy. What regulations are there? I feel like I'm going to regret asking, because you're going to be like, none, but surely at least some barriers exist here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Right, yeah. If it kills you in a few decades, that's on you for eating too much of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Oh no, not economically motivated adulteration. How are you so sure that we've all eaten sawdust cheese or whatever? How do we know that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Wir sind unberichtet über das Essen, das wir essen, und die Labels und Marketing-Schemen machen das Essen immer schwieriger. Schriftsteller Jessica Wynne kommt zu mir für eine Feast von Wissen und Skepsis über falsche Füße. Okay, guten Appetit, alle.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
The French don't care, but they're buying horse and know they know it's horse. I've heard it's popular in France. I'm not just picking on the French. I've heard horse means popular there. I still want to know what I'm buying. Yikes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I can't believe that's a real thing. It sounds like something that dorky executives at agricultural companies call themselves. Like, yeah, drinks with the agro-mafia tonight? Alright, I'm in. 7pm.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
By the way, if it was really in Italy, it was Operation Mamma Mia, right? They have to say it like Mario. And not only did they just name it the most cliche thing you could possibly name an Italian law enforcement operation. But they still found a way to throw shade on the Spanish and Greeks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
It's not that you were exporting olive oil, it's that you were exporting the low quality adulterated Spanish and Greek stuff, which we all know is not as good as the stuff we make here. And you're making us look bad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
So my surf and turf is tilapia slash horse cooked in cheap oil supplied by the mob. I must have missed that scene in Goodfellas.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
No, that means I'll probably never even had real saffron, the humanity. I know. I've seen fake honey. Jen and I, when we went to Australia a zillion years ago, she picked this scammer out at a market down there because...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Jen used to be a beekeeper and this guy was like, I have pineapple flavored honey, I have strawberry flavored honey and my bees, they only feed on this one monocrop and Jen was like, yeah, that's just not even possible. You mean to tell me you have a giant greenhouse full of one crop And then you could taste it and it was like really strawberry, like candy, really pineapple, like candy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
And the consistency and the thing that it was almost totally clear. And Jen's like, you know, the honey we pull out of the hives at our house is like dark brown and has stuff in it, like little particles. Real honey almost looks a bit dirty. And it tastes like honey that's a mix of all kinds of different plants and things like that. This is definitely just corn syrup with flavoring in it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
And yeah, if that guy was doing it at a farmer's market in Australia, then it's likely not just in that one isolated incident being sold to the public.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Nein, sie war einfach so, dass sie nichts kaufen soll, weil meine Eltern so gut sind. Und sie war so, dass sie nichts kaufen soll. Es ist Fake. Und sie war so, okay. Und später war ich so, was redest du darüber? Sie war so, er ist ein Kon-Artist. Also hat sie es erklärt. Es hat Sinn gemacht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Und sie hat gesagt, du weißt, das kleine Bär-Honey, das du bei der Grocery-Store kaufst, das du auf deinem Cereal oder in deinem Tee nimmst. Oh, sicher. Das ist im Grunde nur Korn-Sirup.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
That's labeled as, it says honey, but it's not, it's like 2% or 0% honey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
That's interesting. I grind my own beans because I do be fancy like that, but this is alarming. And you know what? It makes sense because I've noticed... dass gegründeter Kaffee wirklich teuer ist. Und ich dachte, aber ich grinde es selbst. Warum ist es teurer, wenn ich einen extra Schritt habe? Und der Grund ist, weil ich Kaffeebeeren bekomme und das sind 5% Kaffeebeeren und dann fricking Twigs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, that's true. The middle aisles, that's where all the good stuff is. That's where the Pop-Tarts are. But let's be clear, when we say fake foods, I'm not talking about decorative fruit or plastic for a drawing. And I'm not even talking about something that might just be frozen. What are we talking about when we say fake foods?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, keine Ahnung. Wow. Also es macht mich wundern, ob ich irgendwas echt esse? Komm schon, alles ist fake.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ah, Fleisch-Alternativen. Ja, in der Bay Area ist super populär. Ich hatte einen pflanzlichen Kaffee-Sandwich, der genau wie Kaffee am letzten Tag riecht. Ich denke, einer von Jens' Cousins arbeitet bei einer dieser pflanzlichen Fleisch-Kompanien. Aber sie schlagen mich nicht als gesund.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Denn ist nicht all diese verpackte Zwiebeln-Stuffe mit, wiederum, Additiven oder Ölen, die in sie gepackt sind, um sie alle zusammenzutragen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
And just sort of LARP slash pretended that fake food was also healthy because it wasn't meat while tripling the price.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I feel like the cheese sticks we buy our kids are probably legit because I found one behind the bed the other day and it was hard as a rock. And I was like, oh, that seems to me like what real cheese might do when left out, just dehydrate and be really hard. Okay, my friend, I don't want to out the guy, he bought a McDonald's hamburger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Let's just say it ended up in his car for a long period of time. And we were going on a road trip and we were cleaning out his car and we found it. And it looked basically like the day he bought it. And it was months old.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Leghemoglobin really sounds like hemoglobin, which I know is in the blood, and I don't want to be like, it sounds the same, so it must be the same thing. It's plant blood. Oh my gosh, that's so bizarre. Wood pulp is safe for human consumption too. So I'm not sure I'm all in with impossible, because it's not impossible that this stuff is slowly killing you if you eat a lot of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
And there's a lot of additives in leghemoglobin, plant blood, I don't know, maybe not as natural.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Are we going down the wrong path in terms of finding a solution for this stuff? Because it seems confusing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, so anything with the word artificial is probably a giveaway?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
What about lab-grown meat as opposed to fake meat? This is meat that's grown. That's actually real meat, right? It's just not from slaughtered animals. Do you know anything about this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, TBD on lab-grown meats. I'm curious about it because something is weird slash gross about eating vat-grown meat, but admittedly Ja, ja, ja.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Because everything is just in a bucket.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
So from a cruelty standpoint, it's better because you're not killing the animal. But I didn't realize they were still using the same drugs and everything in that kind of stuff. That sort of defeats the purpose for a lot of us.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Our food sounds high-tech. Molecular milk, I don't even know what that is, but it sounds like something. Milk from the future.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
You know what's not grown in a vat with a boatload of antibiotics? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
So do we need alternatives to the alternatives? Because I don't know, it seems like the alternatives have just as many problems so far.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
But those apples might even grow in a wasteful way. It's like almonds. Oh, they're so good for you. They're sucking all the water out of California. It seems like we want our foods to have a positive environmental impact as well, or at least a not super negative environmental impact.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I feel like we did a Skeptical Sunday on almonds and they take a ton of water to grow. But maybe that's just what trees need to grow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
They're wasting water. Give your water to us so we can waste it on cows.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I can't remember if that was a Skeptical Sunday or something a guest said on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I know people with allergies turn to these products as well. So there's some health benefit there. If you swell up when you drink milk, maybe you drink almond milk instead.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
But the environmental impact concerns, that has to be weighed with the fact that we got to eat, right? Look, I'm all for the environment, but I'm not going to like only eat sprouts that I grow in my house because I don't want to have an impact on the environment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I have heard a lot about palm oil. I think that was also one of those cause du jour when I was in college. Palm oil is terrible. Stop using it. It was just in every snack food. There's a lot of negativity around the environmental impact of that stuff. It's like it's ruining the developing world because that's all they're growing or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
So humans are the only species that process their foods.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
For those who don't know, food deserts are communities with no convenient options for fresh foods, right? So if you only have a liquor store nearby, you're probably not gonna have a produce section with a bunch of different choices and a fresh meat section or whatever it is. It's just gonna be like, all right, here's some packaged stuff that you can heat in your microwave.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, it really doesn't. I know people that live Out of the Dollar General basically, near their house. And it's just tragic. You can imagine what's available there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
So her philanthropy is terrific, but more than one store needs to be accessible to get 40 million people out of food deserts. If food equity is all about access, it seems like the solution would be in community gardens and local farming and not a supermarket. But I know I'm asking for farms to crop up in the middle of downtown Detroit, which makes absolutely no sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Convenience though, right? It's not convenient to grow your own food. It's easier just to be like, screw it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Fake Food is going to be so cheap in the near future, but is it all just going to be totally bereft of nutrition?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Sounds like we're all part of a really gross experiment, whether we like it or not. Maybe it's always been like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, für mich, Mann, regelreiche Reisen in den Landwirtschaftsmarkt, das ist so schrecklich.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yep, trust me, we go every weekend. It's not the majority of the stuff that I eat. Just some random things that we like from there. So we come home with like mushrooms and some eggs or whatever and some fruit. That's it. It's not like we buy everything from that place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ich habe nicht darüber nachgedacht. Wir sind die einzige Spezies, die kocht. Es gibt keine Küchen-Show von Animal Kingdom. Wir haben immer Gemüse gekocht, glaube ich, solange wir Fleisch auf den Feuer gelegt haben. Ich habe es nicht so nachgedacht. Was ist die Unterschiede heute? Weil es natürlich schlimmer wird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
It seems hopeless, but what could we do to fight corporate influence on our diet? I don't have Nestle Lobby in cash. Yeah, I mean...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I think it's funny that's where they draw the line. You can't put that tiger on the front. The sugar-coated flakes, no problem. The tiger on the front, no sir.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, it is. So now there's just really small logos on things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Thank you, Jessica. This has been a barfer of a skeptical Sunday, especially the vat meat was really yucky.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Show notes on the website. Advertisers, deals, discounts and ways to support the show. All at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her sub stack Between the Lines.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Link to that in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. I'm certainly not a nutritionist or anything like that. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Du wirst ein Vorlesung des Jordan Harbinger Show hören, mit einem Schmerzpsychologen, der Menschen hilft, chronische Schmerzen zu behandeln, wenn alles andere verfehlt ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
To hear more from Dr. Rachel Zoffness about how pain works in the body and brain, check out Episode 661 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Interesting that just chopping an apple is enough processing to change our body's digestion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, so what is ultra-processing compared to processing?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Denken Sie an die Ingredient-Liste auf den Füßen in meiner Küche. Ich fühle mich, als ob vieles ultraverpackt ist, für sicher. Ja.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Das ist fast wie das Tricken unseres Gehirns, vom Geräusch davon.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I know this is connected to why we've seen a rise in obesity, because obesity isn't just from inactivity, but research indicates obesity is more from the food we are eating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, so if that orange flavor has little to no nutrition, your brain tells you, hey, you gotta eat more of this because there's barely any vitamin C in here. We're not detecting any vitamin C. This, I assume, works out well for food companies who just want you to eat as much as possible. So it's a great business plan, but sounds like a really bad health plan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Willkommen bei Skeptical Sunday. Ich bin euer Host, Jordan Harbinger. Heute bin ich hier mit Skeptical Sunday-Co-Host, Schriftstellerin und Forscherin Jessica Wynn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Ich weiß, dass viele dieser Commodity-Crops auf der Höhe für Farmanimale gegründet werden. Also warum sind sie in meinem Essen auch?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Es ist witzig, dass ich als Mensch denke, oh, mein gebliebenes Essen geht in einen Trophäen und dann essen es die Pferde. Mittlerweile essen wir alle das gleiche. Das ist tatsächlich das gebliebene Pferdessen, das in mein Essen geht, richtig? Es ist wie, oh, wir brauchen nicht dieses Palmöl und dieses andere Soja und Korn. Mach ein Serien aus diesem. Gib es Jordan und seinen Kindern.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Du machst es klingen, als ob Additiven eine magische Potion sind. Also was sind diese mysteriösen Additiven, die Pfeffer rekonstruieren und sie in etwas ressemblerndes Essen verändern?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Auf der Jordan Harbinger Show decoden wir die Geschichten, Geheimnisse und Fähigkeiten der weltweit faszinierendsten Menschen und verändern ihre Wissen in praktische Hinweise, die Sie nutzen können, um euren eigenen Leben und die, die sich um Sie herum befinden, zu beeinflussen. Unsere Mission ist es, Sie zu werden, ein besser informierter, kritischer Denker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, for some reason. Okay, so it sounds like it's the Wild West when you see artificial flavor as an ingredient, which is concerning. So what do the additives do? I don't get how nobody cares if those exist and are thrown into everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Mmm, spicy chip red. Are these affecting our health aside from packing on the pounds? Not that being super overweight isn't the most primary health concern of our entire nation right now, but do they do anything else besides make us fat?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
I remember when we were kids, it was like red dye number four and then it was like, oh my God, now you can't use that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, and it was causing, I don't even know what, but it was definitely bad for you. I know some of this stuff is supposed to be bad for our guts as well. Something we, maybe in the last 10 years, people started caring about, but didn't even realize was a thing back when we were growing up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Und während der Woche haben wir langfristige Gespräche mit einer Vielfalt von fantastischen Leuten, von Spielen zu CEOs, Athleten, Autoren, Denkern und Performern. Auf Sonntagen machen wir Skeptical Sunday, wo ein rotierender Gast, Co-Host und ich einen Thema unterbrechen, den ihr vielleicht noch nie überlegt habt und gemeinsame Missverständnisse überdenken.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
No, continue buying this crap, but then also buy the one with probiotics and drink this kombucha to replenish the gut bacteria that you've murdered or starved by eating all this other stuff. So it's like everything has additives. Does this include artificial sweeteners? Because I feel like those must be doing some good, eliminating tons of sugar from our diet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, but some of that is correlation versus causation, right? We can't say, hey, by the way, artificial sweeteners, and then everyone got fat. It's like, well, okay, a lot of things have changed. I got a friend, he drinks 20 diet sodas a day, so he can brag about being sugar-free. Doesn't seem that good for him. There was a guy in my law school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
This guy would show up to the library with a 12-pack of Diet Coke, those long ones that fit in the fridge, and he would just open the top, and then he would slam a can, open another one, drink that can, open another one. By lunchtime, that thing was empty. He would go eat, come back with a fresh 12-pack. So this dude was drinking two dozen Diet Cokes per day, every day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1116: Fake Foods | Skeptical Sunday
Themen wie, warum Expirationsdaten Nonsens sind, Astrologie, Akupunktur, E-Commerce-Skams, Diät-Supplements, die Lotterie, Eierkandeln und mehr. Und wenn ihr neu zu dem Show oder ihr wollt euren Freunden über den Show erzählen, I suggest our episode starter packs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
The Banana Mesker sounds like a fruit salad my kids would make. So what happened? This is going to be dark and I'm going to regret that joke, aren't I?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Anyway, forced into sex work. Wow, the UFC were banana pimps. That is gross. That is gross. Despicable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers and performers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Oh yeah, the original gig workers, that's messed up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wow, bananas over human rights. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Auf Sonntagen ist es Skeptical Sunday, wo ein rotierender Gäste-Co-Host und ich einen Thema unterbrechen, den Sie vielleicht noch nie gedacht haben, und gemeinsame Missverständnisse über diesen Thema entdecken. Themen wie Chemtrails, gebannte Füße, GMOs, Toothpaste, Kristallheilung, Eierkandlung, Diät-Supplemente, die Lotterie und mehr.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, everyone just gather in one place because we want to talk to you and then murder everyone. Well, did people actually die? I assume they did if they were being shot at.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Just pause for a second and think about how much shooting you have to do to kill 3,000 people. There's no way that happened in like a 90-second panic shooting. That's no way. They sat there and shot people for probably hours. That's really grim. Wow, and they left a body in the village. That's so psychopathic. It's poetic with the body in the place, but that is so psycho.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
You know who doesn't murder their own workers by the thousands? The amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. Vielen Dank. Bis zum nächsten Mal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Und wenn Sie neu zu dem Show sind oder einen handigen Weg suchen, um Ihren Freunden über den Show zu erzählen, empfehle ich unsere Episode-Starter-Packs. Diese sind Kollektionen unserer Lieblingsepisoden über Verschwörung, Negotiation, Psychologie, Unwissenheit, Krimen und Kulten und mehr. Das wird den neuen Zuhörern helfen, alles zu probieren, was wir hier auf dem Show machen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
This episode is also sponsored by Naked Wines. Do you actually know what you're doing in the wine aisle or are you actually just grabbing the bottle with the coolest label and hoping for the best? Because that was definitely me until I let Naked Wines take over. It's 2025. Why are we still buying wine like it's 2005?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
You can pause or cancel at any time, no strings attached and Jen will tell you now how to get six bottles for $39.99.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Don't forget about our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. It is a great companion to the show. It comes out on Wednesdays. It's a two-minute read, highly practical, something from our thousand plus episodes. If you want to take something like that and apply it to your life, the newsletter is definitely the place to do that. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. This is never-ending banana drama. But okay, wait. This guy was so into bananas, he was known as THE Banana Man. He sounds like a really crappy movie villain. Like, whatever knock-off Batman-Comic has the Banana Man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Besuche nur jordanharbinger.com oder suche uns in deiner Spotify-App, um anfangen zu können. Heute stehlen wir die Lager zurück auf eines der populärsten Früchte auf der Welt, die Bananen. Von Smoothies zu Flambés, Bananen sind überall, aber wie viel wissen wir wirklich über sie? Sind sie ethisch? Sind sie nachhaltig? Können sie von Chemikalien frei sein?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So it sounds like he learned from the industry standards. It's weird. It's like banana colonialism.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
What is up with the names in this episode? Nobody has a real freaking name. Minor Cooper Keith, Lee Christmas and Sam the Banana Man. By the way, which sounds like a record you'd find when you're cleaning out your grandmother's attic. So this guy was a mercenary for bananas. How did that work out?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So just to be clear, we're talking about a corporate coup against a democratically elected government for bananas. This is wild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Swallow those bananas whole. So the US essentially bought out UFC's competition. Smart move. Also getting the government to do it? Okay. So what did Sam end up with?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wait a minute. That actually worked? Times were certainly different back then. I can't tell if this guy is a genius or completely out of his tree. Imagine storming into a board meeting and be like, no, I run Tesla now. Sorry. I just I demand it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Und welchen Einfluss haben sie auf das Umfeld? Well, hold on to your bowls of fruit, because today we're going deep into the sweet and mushy and surprisingly complex secrets of our slender yellow friends. Joining me today is writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. Jess, welcome to the show. Are you ready to go B-A-N-A-N-A-S? I think that's how it goes. That's how you spell bananas, correct?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wait, what, so the CIA gets involved in a banana dispute?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Just another play in the banana chess game, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I guess it worked well in Honduras and Guatemala for the UFC at least. I want to pause for a second again and appreciate that a private company armed up and went after a country. Can you imagine if Tesla assembled some special forces commandos, like retired military guys, whatever, and took over an island in the Caribbean or whatever? This is just on another level of crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Also, wo kommt der Bananen-Käfer uns als nächstes hin?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, I know we're oversimplifying this, but the Bay of Pigs invasion was at least partly about bananas?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
But the Bay of Pigs invasion was a massive historical failure. So I guess this is where things go wrong for banana companies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wow, slow down. Okay, UFC's Banana Empire nearly brought about nuclear war. And all of this is rooted in freaking bananas. It's intense. People are eating this many bananas? Is it worth the trouble? We're overestimating just how important bananas are to my daily life. The fact that we all went up in a nuclear holocaust nearly as a result of these things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I can't believe that Bananas, they've literally shaped geopolitics. I had no idea. I feel bad about having sunscreen called Banana Boat now, guilt by association. Gotta raid my medicine cabinet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Don't tell me bananas are bad for you because I got a whole bowl of these things sitting here and they're going to be brown in 20 minutes or whatever, however long they last.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
That for sure exists. I'm going to have to Google that. But if I'm walking into a store named after a political crisis, I want a very detailed explanation of their supply chain. It's 2025. We can't be messing with it. What is a banana republic actually? What does that mean?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Disrespectful possibly, but finally someone with a real name. R.I.P. Maybe he slipped on appeal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Natürlich. Wow. Also wenn etwas Bananen ist, dann bedeutet das all die Schmerzen und Verrücktheit, die Bananen verursacht haben. Ich dachte, es war nur eine dumme Ausprägung, die wir in diesem Episodem überwiesen haben.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Ja. Also hat Bananagate zu einem echten Veränderung in der Industrie geführt? Natürlich nicht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, the banana industry is such a bully. I really had no idea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I suppose that's a plus. Anything with labor has human rights issues. Chocolate, coffee, basically if there's a skeptical Sunday about it and it's a food or something that you eat, it's because there's slaves involved. So yeah, I guess I should not be surprised that there's a high human cost to my breakfast banana.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Because nothing says forget all of our atrocities like a new label on the same rotten fruit, especially one that's a dancing banana lady, if memory serves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
But wait, am I crazy? Chiquita was around before the 90s. I remember seeing it as a kid, even a little kid watching Sesame Street or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
We also have to make it sexist, but sex sells, right? So here we are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I have seen that one. We'll link it in the show notes. It is racist as hell. Yes. That's about all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, and people are going, oh, I don't really get it. When you watch this, you'll get it. Again, we'll link to it in the show notes. It's a minute or so long. Just the cartoon image of the cannibal is pretty horrible by today's standards.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Oh Gott, das ist Tone-Deaf-Marketing. Das ist wie wenn Volkswagen gesagt hätte, erinnere dich, als wir in Konzentrations-Kampfen diese Autos bauen mussten. Das gleiche Niveau der Verarbeitungskraft ist noch immer in unseren Händen. Ich dachte, wir sprechen über das nicht mehr, Leute.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Also, die UFC verwendet diese tropische Fantasie, um Bananen zu verkaufen, während sie nur den Fakt, dass sie korrupte Massmörderer waren. Und das, hat das funktioniert?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So Bananas in Colombia have a bit of a toxic relationship from the sound of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
In Bananaland though, this is just business as usual from the sound of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Eine Banane war früher mein Lieblings-Pre-Werk-Snack. Aber warte, also eine Art Banane, eine Spezies, das klingt seltsam. Weil haben wir nicht hunderts von verschiedenen Arten von Äpfeln und Orangen, zum Beispiel?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Rebranding won't cover up literal murders, I suppose. Okay, so these investigations, did they lead to stopping anything? I'm afraid to ask.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, and you said charged them for crimes, so I'm guessing they're just like, yeah, I guess I won't go to Colombia, I'll just stay in my house in Nantucket and retire. And it's like, okay, as long as you don't go down there, you're fine. So let me recap.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
We've got a billion dollar banana empire backed by violence slash murder, rebranding with a cartoon mascot to hide a century of abuse, and they just skate by with some fines that go to the US government and not the people who got pushed off their land so that they could grow bananas.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Geez, that is a slap on the wrist for a massive corporation like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
You've never actually set foot in a supermarket, have you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
You know who won't force your wife and daughter into a banana job? The amazing sponsors that make this show possible. We'll be right back. Bis zum nächsten Mal. They've got the number one checkout on the planet and with ShopPay conversions jump by up to 50%.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
And as somebody who probably shops online more than I should admit, trust me, it makes life a lot easier for customers too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Hier ist das Ding. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Bis zum nächsten Mal. Vielen Dank. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support this podcast are all searchable and clickable over on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I suppose that's a bonus, because we eat, what, millions of bananas every year?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support us. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. Hey, don't bring me into this. I just like eating bananas. I don't want them to come from child slavery.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Ja, zumindest arbeitet er den Nachtschiff. Ja.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So they're not native to the US. They seem very tropical.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
It was only a matter of time. Okay, so they're at risk of extinction? Is that how this works? And I'm over here worried about how quickly they turn brown. I'm looking at these bananas now. I swear they're browner than they were when we started the show. Probably.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Ich habe die kleinen Bananen gesehen. Ich glaube, du müsstest alle Füttermaschinen, die Verpackungsmaschinen und die Versorgungsmaschinen wiederhelfen, wenn du etwas wie das wechselst. Ja, es ist eine Erleichterung, dass wir eine neue Variante herstellen können. Aber was ist der Extinction Fungus, der die Cavendish tötet? Ist das etwas Interessantes, das wir entdecken?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wir töten Bananen und ihre Landwirte, und wir haben nur dieses kleine Fenster, wo sie perfekt grün sind? Was für eine Welt, Mann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Love a good crop dust. That's how I met my wife. Go on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
And if you're a worker who's probably lacking proper safety equipment, PPE, no shower is going to help you get that stuff off you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wow. Not even close, first of all. Not even remotely the same thing. Is that a really long fig in your pocket? Yeah. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yikes, that's awful for the workers. It can't be good for the earth either. I know some of these things, they try to make them safe or whatever. I just never quite buy it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, DDT. I feel like we were talking about that in middle school and then it was like, oh, it's not a thing anymore, so don't worry.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Of course they do. Yeah, that's the main thing. And we probably water the bananas with water contaminated by other crops.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Was ist mit organischem Kaufen? Ist es eine magische Bananen-Plantation, ohne all diese Bananen-Horror und Pestizide und Verbrechen? Ich weiß nicht mal, was es bedeutet, ein organisches Bananen zu sein.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So I basically pay more for fancier chemicals. Jesus. Is there any positivity from buying either fair trade bananas or is that a feel good term too?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I can imagine opening up a box of squishy brown bananas after however many days it took to get to America or Europe from my boat. Yeah, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So, what's the solution? Just buy from small farmer-owned cooperatives or something like that? How do you find that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Seriously? You don't have banana coins? Loser. I guess if you sold them to buy Trump coins, then maybe you've made some money.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I hate that for crypto, I hate it for bananas and I hate it for Laos. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I don't know about a banana facial. Okay, I'm done. But what are the recommendations for eating bananas that I can feel good about?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
It's a tough life for bananas. They gotta battle fungal pathogens, military coups. They're used in condom demonstrations in middle schools around the world, as far as I know. And they gotta compete with avocados and eggplants for social media clout.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Anything phallic, really? The eggplant emoji, anyone? Come on. Why would you use that if not for what you use it for?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
And it's funny when someone slips, if you're four.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
I suppose so. And there you have it, folks. Who knew bananas were living such a complicated life? They got more going on than I do. So next time you peel your morning banana, remember there's a whole lot more than just potassium in there. Thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday. Shownotes at jordanharbinger.com as well on the website.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Philadelphia Bananas. Das hat einen schönen Ring.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Advertisers, Deals, Discounts and ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her Substack, Between the Lines. We'll link to that in the show notes as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
We can link to both. Look at the show notes. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Share the show with those you love and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
In Part 1 delft Adam in die hochwertige Welt von Konterterrorismus und Covert-Operationen, die die persönlichen und ethischen Komplexitäten des Kampfes gegen Terrorismus von innen der Schatten zeigen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Tune in to uncover his unique journey and critical insights only he can provide on episode 978 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Das ist, wenn du bemerkst, dass Dinge nicht so gut funktionieren, wie sie früher waren. Deine Beine, dein Körper, vielleicht sogar dein Haar.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Vital Proteins steigt ein, um diese Bereiche unterstützt zu halten, damit du aktiv sein kannst und was du liebst. Vital Proteins ist die Nummer 1 Kollagen-Peptid-Brand in den USA, damit sie wissen, was sie tun. Es ist super einfach zu nehmen, einfach eine Tasse zu deiner Kaffee, Smoothie, sogar Wasser zu geben. Es schmeckt nicht so gut, also blendet es sofort ein. Das Ziel ist Konsistenz.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Es ist ein täglicher Habit, wie du die Vorteile siehst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Ich werde es einfach so lassen, dass die Boston Fruit Company in Florida gegründet wurde. Okay, also Chiquita kam von einigen Ostküsten-Bananen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Wie hat die UFC, können wir sie UFC nennen, oder wird es sich mit der Kämpfer-Liga verwirklichen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Nothing says great idea like wandering cluelessly into the jungle and being like, let's just transform this landscape. So how did that go?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I've been to Costa Rica in the modern age and that untouched jungle is crazy. It must have been wild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Oh, he went bananas. Yes. Okay. And folks, yeah, we planned over to use this joke throughout the rest of the show. You can count on that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, right now I can only transport one banana at a time. Yeah, I guess you can't sell your passengers to the highest bidder at the port. You could no longer do that in 1890 anyway. Gosh, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Also, ich weiß nicht, nur das zu hören, es klingt wirklich so, als ob der Präsident seine Tochter verkauft hat, um diesem Jungen seine Schuld zu bezahlen. Aber wir haben keine Details und das wird ein helles Tangent sein, aber das ist wirklich, was das klingt. Okay, gut. If you can just forget I owe you a few million dollars, you can have my daughter. That's what that sounds like.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Maybe that was par for the course back then. Anyway, 5,000 dead workers is a bushel of bodies, but again also probably par for the course back then in a big construction project like this railroad through the jungle.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Capitalism, baby. Corner the market, control the infrastructure, rake in the profits. We even still to this day say own the rails. And it's obviously a railroad metaphor or hat tip to the railroad itself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
These banana tycoons turned a casual fruit snack into a money printer in record time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Banana Boys. So they weren't just rich, they were marketing geniuses, which is cool. Who knew bananas had PR campaigns? So weird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Bananas saving us from scurvy, but killing the planet at the same time. I guess it probably is easier to just burn a section of rainforest and plant stuff. They're still doing that down there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
So they're agreeing to build roads for the people that just also happen to be great for moving truckloads of bananas to their trains or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, can you have one without the other? The lines blurry when profit is involved. Of course you can do both, but it sounds like this was one thing painted over as the other.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger Show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1125: Bananas | Skeptical Sunday
That is insane. Sounds like a scam, frankly, not a business.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our sponsors keeps us going. All the links, deals, and discount codes are in one place, jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You can also ask the AI chatbot for promo codes. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. What is the justification? Is any reasoning given to justify any of this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Like you mentioned that one of the bagua has specific colors like blue, the number's four, all that stuff. So the question is, why those? What is there to distinguish any of this from a set of just completely arbitrary, made-up assertions?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, no, I mean, it seems fair, but whenever people are like, fake Professor Dave thinks the Earth is round, I'm like, well, you can't really say anything about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. And I mentioned before that qi is life energy or something, but maybe I should have asked, what is qi exactly? Because I don't know what it is. I've heard that it's a life energy because that's what they told me in martial arts, but even they didn't know anything about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I feel like we're about to dive into a physics lesson here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I feel like that word is used really loosely at times. For a long time, for years, it was actually banned on my show because it had become almost meaningless. If you were talking about, and even now, if you're talking about energy on my show, it doesn't happen as much as it used to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
It has to be like electricity or something that you learned about in your science class, in your physics class in high school. It can't be when somebody goes, everything is energy, right? And just uses that to explain some random thing. I don't allow that. It's become totally meaningless as a word. The meaninglessness is by design.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So charlatans, practitioners of woo, whatever, they can sell us something, claim that it's got something to do with energy, whatever, and you're not supposed to have follow-up questions. You're just like too tired to argue with them at that point or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Right, yeah, you could be talking to, I don't know, Galileo, and you'd be like, nope, sorry, no, I made up my mind. Anyway. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I'm going way back to middle school, seventh grade science class here, but aren't there different forms of energy? I remember kinetic energy was the energy of motion. Potential energy was the energy of potential motion. I don't even know. And then heat, is that separate or is that also kinetic? I don't even know because the molecules are moving separately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
This is all coming back to me now. And you mentioned those thermal systems. Now I'm understanding why my insulated cup works, right? Because in between these metal walls, there's a vacuum and there's less molecules. So it's hard for the heat to get into my cold drink and vice versa, I guess. Now that all makes sense. Okay, so temperature is really measuring exactly that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Heat is not a substance or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Okay, so I guess what we're saying is that when certain people use the word energy, what they are describing is not energy at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
But then some people use the word that way, but they don't realize they're using it that way, the metaphorical way. And I think that's where the confusion begins. They either don't realize or they're doing it on purpose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
By the way, I know Galileo is the sun not going around the earth guy. Don't email me. Who did figure out the earth was round? Do we even know?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Also positive or negative energy, which I guess that's not a real thing, right? That would be the same issue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Not like good or bad is what I'm trying to say.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I see. That is confusing, especially if you're trying to confuse people with it. It's pretty easy to do just given that going like they wouldn't call it. It reminds me of when somebody was talking about essential oils and the person was like, why do you think they call them essential? It's because you need them. And it was like, no, that it's because it's the essence of something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And it's like, no, essential. Like it's essential that you have gas in your car. If you don't buy them, you die. I'm like, that's not what they mean. So we're sitting there arguing over semantics. And then I realized I'm just I might as well ram my head through the wall because I'm going to get further that way than arguing semantics with this person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
But it's not really the word energy either or not just the word energy. I hear people use words like frequency, vibration all the time. And I would imagine that applies here even with feng shui.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So maybe people should email me because clearly I don't know who I'm talking about or have any idea. Anyway, our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, Like I should be, apparently, about heliocentrism. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. Spies, CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And vibration, same bucket as frequency, wavelength, whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Speaking of fortune and prosperity, mine will be increased if you support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is also sponsored in part by Taylor Brands. You wouldn't believe how many people ask me, Jordan, you're a lawyer, how do I set up an LLC? And until now, I didn't have a simple go-to recommendation, but I finally do. Taylor Brands.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
On Sundays, though, we do Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I, we break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic. Topics such as Flat Earth, for example, circumcision, the Olympics being kind of a sham, chemtrails, banned foods, GMOs, internet porn, and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Homes.com. We've done your homework. Thanks again for listening to the show. All the deals, all the sponsors and promo codes at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. So it sounds like a major problem here is that these words are not well understood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And maybe some people, they started using them metaphorically, maybe to refer to something aesthetically or to convey something subjective. But then other people took that and tried to turn it into something literal in a way that doesn't make sense if you know anything about science. And that's where all this mystical stuff comes from.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
What is it exactly that allows us to assign it as an art form? I know this sounds a little bit philosophical. Can we be clear about what art really is? Is that a thing we can do in less than five hours?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
As opposed to what other type of criteria?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Okay. So what would be an example of each of those things, just so we can be clear? And I realize I'm probably beating this to death, but I think it's important to be clear about things that would be art and things that would be not art.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So for no other reason, then that's what seems aesthetically pleasing to you. That's right. Okay, so I guess the reason this is important, because people are like, Jesus, let it go already.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
The reason this is important is that people can take the subjectivity of an art like interior design and all the aesthetic choices that have to be made and paint some mysticism upon it to try to make it seem practical or aligned with some kind of universal truth where it just isn't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, we've got some starter packs, which are collections of top episodes organized by topic. So you can find out what your friend or your grandma or your dad or whatever wants to listen to and spood feed him that one. Topics like psychology, persuasion, influence, China, North Korea, crime, cults, and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. Yeah, we talked about that on our longer podcast episode a couple of years ago.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, science denial. Right. Okay, if a plant is supposed to make you feel energized, and you stand in a room first with the plant, and then without the plant, how is one gauging the feeling of being energized? And how are we accounting for the placebo effect, which is obviously present with anything like this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
It sounds like you're reading my inbox every Monday morning. Every time we do one of these, people are like, excuse me. Even well-meaning people, not just people who are pissed off that I've skewered acupuncture for them, but we did the astrology episode. It aired a while ago, and the next day, people were like, you know what? People do study astrology. I'm like, well, not scientists.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And then other people were like, look, here's your horoscope. Dead on, if I do say so. I know you a little bit through the podcast. This is dead on. I'm like, you could show this to anyone, and it's dead on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
80%, right. Some people might be like, oh, actually, I'm not organized and I don't like money. Okay, fine. They don't like money. I guess I... I hate sex, actually. Yeah, it's terrible. Look, there's still 90% accurate horoscope. Come on, what do you want? All right, so what about mirrors? I would imagine that has a thing. I see those all over Chinatown.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I've asked about that and the answer was feng shui. And that was, again, not allowed to have follow-up questions. Something about evil spirits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Now today, we're going to look at feng shui or feng shui or however people mispronounce it. I think it's feng shui. That's just the dialect of Mandarin that I've been studying. No big deal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Mirrors are water. Why water specifically?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I mean, that might be a good idea for other reasons. But yeah, make sure your mirror is childproof. Good point. Because if I'm taller than the majority of people in a given area, do they have to move the mirrors for me? Or am I just sorry, buddy, you're the foreigner. We're not moving our mirrors for you. Right. Everyone hates your house. Yeah. Like, thanks for putting the mirror above my head.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I'm drowning in negative energy, pal. I agree. It is vague and it's inconsistent. What would you say to an interior decorator who incorporates feng shui in their practice? Is it pointless? Is it harmful? Or does it just end up with you having a Chinese aesthetic?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I think a lot of this is sort of backwards rationalization. And some things just seem obvious. Keeping entryways free of clutter. Okay, fine. Any good decorator is intuitively going to know that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Humblebrag, which is an ancient Chinese practice, not humblebragging, but feng shui, or some might say an art form. Others mistakenly say it's science. It's not. We'll talk about that today. It's regarding the arrangement of objects in the home or other areas, gardens, streets.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
It's like a selling point. Like I'm a feng shui certified master. I remember seeing a show a long time ago, like 20 years ago now, where they hired, I don't know, half a dozen feng shui decorators and said, decorate this room according to the principles of feng shui. And that, of course, each one did a vastly and completely different job of decorating that room.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Everything was positioned differently. All of the colors, the whole thing was different, which sort of proves that it's not really science, right? Because if it's science and each of these people is following those principles, they end up like with 99% accuracy, they're going to have pretty much the same design.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. People can go back and listen to the astrology episode. Lastly, I've read that the concept of luck is a big part of this. How does luck tie in here? I know that Chinese people generally like they're just obsessed with luck, lucky, everything, restaurants. And it's a common character in old Chinese writing. You see it everywhere.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Plus there's the fortune cookie. That's not really related, maybe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And to help us with this analysis today is your favorite debunker of pseudoscience and mine, Dave Farina of the YouTube channel Professor Dave Explains. Dave, thanks for joining us again today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
True, yeah. And by the way, those were invented in San Francisco, in Chinatown. Is that a fact? Yeah, it is. I was surprised by that. I thought, oh, this is an ancient Chinese thing. I wonder how they made these 500 years ago. And the tour guide on the walking tour was like, actually, they're made right here. We're about to walk in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And the people that invented that were like the grandparents or great grandparents of this woman who's sitting right here right now making these in this place. Claim to fame. Yeah. And they just sit there and make those. And I thought, wow. So it's as American as it is Chinese, more so. It's just San Francisco, Chinatown, born and bred. A gimmick. A gimmick. 100% a gimmick. Yes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
congratulations you invented the worst dessert of all time yeah where if you're not careful you bite into a piece of paper with nonsense written on it yes so my parents by the way they went to chinatown with a bunch of their friends and they accidentally bought like a bag of the dirty fortune cookies oh and they gave them out at a party by mistake which was hilariously embarrassing for the host of the party
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
dirty like you're gonna get herpes or like what no sorry they're like dirty sexual fortunes inside these fortune cookies yeah oh i thought you just meant like the cookie itself is gonna give you herpes oh no no i meant the fortune is soon you're gonna get herpes from all the sex that you do Probably something along those lines.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
They were opening them and they're, you know, my parents are 80 years old now. This happened probably 20 years ago, but they're still of the generation where they probably don't talk about that stuff at parties.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, there's probably a little bit of I never. I think they also were laughing because they're not totally devoid of a sense of humor, but it's a funny mistake to make. Sure. And you can't tell those middle of folder cookies from the other one. So I don't know if they bought the bag because it was mislabeled or they just weren't reading the label. At least they had that classic taste.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So let's start with the very basics. What is feng shui? And I know you're going to say feng shui. It's fine. How is it different?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yes, they did have that classic chalk taste, manila folder chalk taste. So where does luck enter with feng shui or is it a separate concept?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
It sort of begins to sound like horoscopes in a way. It's just that the fortune, it's self-assigned instead of being assigned by constellations. It's assigned by you making your room look a certain way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
You flip-flop on the feng shui. Sure, I do. The irony is not lost here in that it is something that is fully malleable. How is it different, though, from just interior decorating? How come if I hire somebody who is a master of feng shui, I'm not just hiring an interior decorator, for lack of a better term?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
A big pit of mysticism. That's how I feel about modern society sometimes, at least when I go on the internet. At any rate, thank you for helping us elucidate some of the details of feng shui here on Skeptical Sunday. I appreciate it, man. My pleasure. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with geopolitics analyst Peter Zion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
For more about how globalization and our way of life will change dramatically in the coming decade, check out episode 781 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to Jordan at JordanHarbinger.com. Show notes at JordanHarbinger.com. Transcripts in the show notes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show all at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both, well, X and Instagram. It sounds so dumb saying that, doesn't it? Yeah. Instead of Twitter. I'm on Twitter, Instagram X, whatever you want to call it. Or connect with me on LinkedIn where people aren't going to argue about QAnon crap in public. Dave Farina.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
You can find Dave at Professor Dave Explains on YouTube. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Emilio Campo, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
God forbid your chi should be blocked. Am I right? And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism we doled out here today. So maybe somebody is worried about the way their room is arranged. Maybe they're worried about that chi flowing through the house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, I get that this idea of some kind of oneness with the universe is actually behind a lot of different flavors of mysticism, right? You take the yin-yang symbol and concept and you're like, oh, karate, martial arts, whatever, has to be that way. Food now has to be that way. Feng shui has to be that way. It's the way of the universe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
But then it's just selectively applied where people make up a new system for it. Why do you think that is?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
That sounds pretty on the nose and a bit reminiscent of our astrology conversation in a way wanting to be intertwined with the cosmos and all that jazz.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So let's dig into the specifics with feng shui. When somebody acts as a practitioner of this art or whatever you call it, what are they doing? What are they prescribing?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Hmm. So far, I'm lugging around my office. So far, so good. Okay, that doesn't sound too crazy. I'll admit I can't immediately say why I sort of agree with that, but I think of any bedroom I've ever had, and it kind of describes where the bed should go and did go most of the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Maybe everything about feng shui can be justified logically in that sort of way. Or am I getting ahead of myself?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah, that took an abrupt sharp turn for the kooky. I should have probably just waited until I heard the word energy map.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So there's an energy map or whatever of some sort that you would just place on top of the floor like a blueprint kind of deal?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yikes. Okay, it's already complicated. And these correlate with specific sections of the map and therefore specific parts of the room. So is there like a career part of the room where the desk is and whatever? Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. While we're making shit up completely, yeah, you can make the grid round now. Whatever, man. Yeah, it's fine. Did the check clear? Yes. Another objection that immediately comes to mind is that if you were to superimpose this map over the whole house, but then also over an individual room, aren't you necessarily and inevitably going to get conflicting results?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Yeah. I'm sure that if you practice this, you have reasons why certain things switch and work and don't work. But I just hear the mystics in the back of my head in modern times shouting about quantum mechanics or whatever. Like it's different when you're looking from this perspective than this perspective. It's like, OK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Sure. I mean, that makes no sense to me without any context, but it makes as much sense as feng shui in the first place. You can't argue that logic as long as we're just making up our own rules as we go. Let's get that third principle and then we can start to dissect some of this stuff. What's that last principle that you mentioned?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Can you give me an example of how you would do that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
It's funny to me because when I think of rejuvenation, I don't think I would go straight to earth. I'd probably think of water first. It rehydrates you, keeps you alive. You could shower with it. I don't know if I'm thinking like lay on the dirt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
And as far as these primal elements, and I put that in air quotes because those aren't real elements, I guess they're design elements. I don't know. This is a very old concept. It seems like all ancient civilizations had some version of this because they didn't know what molecules were, atoms or anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Right. I can imagine a bedroom full of earth tones and rocky sculptures. And so that could be warm and peaceful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Speaking of chi, you'll have chi out the wazoo if you purchase one of the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Shopify. Ever try to buy something online and immediately know the company is not using Shopify? That happened to me just yesterday. I was trying to check out. The process was so clunky.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
I literally told Jen, this company is definitely not on Shopify because when a business does use Shopify, you can tell. It's fast. It's seamless. It doesn't make you jump through 87 hoops just to give them your money. And that's the not so secret secret. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. They've got the number one checkout on the planet, and with shop pay, conversions can jump by up to 50%.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, Professor Dave Farina. You get so much crap for that online, by the way, Dave. Your professor name. I mean, you had to see that coming, though, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
That means fewer abandoned carts, way more cha-ching moments for business owners. If you're serious about growing your business, your commerce platform, better be ready to sell wherever your customers are, on your website, in-store, social feeds, anywhere they're scrolling, because businesses that sell more, they sell on Shopify.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
So whether you're launching your first product or you're scaling up, Shopify makes it ridiculously easy to sell, convert, and grow. And as somebody who buys a lot online, probably more than I should admit, I can tell you firsthand, it makes life easier for customers too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
This episode is also sponsored by Rocket Money. You ever sign up for something, totally forget about it, and realize like 10 months later you've been paying for it this whole time? Yes, we've all been there. Apparently 85% of people have at least one subscription they are paying for, but not even using, which means most of us are throwing money away every single month
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1122: Feng Shui | Skeptical Sunday
One click, it's handled. Track your spending across all your accounts, set budgets, even get alerts if a bill goes up or there's unusual activity. They will even help negotiate lower bills for you. RocketMoney has over 5 million users, has saved a total of $500 million in cancelled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Oh, I can see the kids are just like, no, we're not doing this. Great question. This is something, by the way, that every professional has to worry about at some point. How to balance honesty with politics, basically. Those two are always going to be in tension. This is always a tricky dance, but I do have some thoughts on this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
First of all, just to build on what I said a moment ago, you are an absolute rock star, my friend. What you've brought to your new job, how you've invested in yourself, in other people, built relationships, it's remarkable. And to do that in your early 60s when a lot of people are just checking out, you're checking in, I love it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You're literally a case study for reinventing yourself later in life and all of that sixminutenetworking.com stuff, so kudos to you. The other benefit of doing all that is you're building up capital at this place. A colleague who shows up the way you are is in a much better position to give feedback and for that feedback to be taken well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So there's a world where offering some thoughts on these course materials might not jeopardize you as much as you think, So let's talk about a few ways that you can say some hard things without it backfiring.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
The first thing I want you to know is the fact that you're approaching all of this in a spirit of genuine love for your students, a genuine concern for the quality of education you're providing them, that is fantastic. it's very pure, it's extremely moving, it's impossible to argue with, that's gonna make a huge difference in how people hear this feedback. They're gonna be infected by that spirit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So part of your job is staying emotionally connected to that purpose and communicating that purpose to other people if slash when you have these chats. The other benefit of framing things in this way is it shifts the conversation from one of criticism to one of solutions. If you approach these conversations from that place, not from a place of, oh, these course materials, they suck. I know better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You're failing our students. But from a place of, look, I want to serve our students as well as possible. I take great pride in the education we offer. Here are a few ways we can do that better. You have a good shot of getting these colleagues on board. This is where you do have to be a little political. You gotta be thoughtful about how you frame things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I would not say, guys, these course materials you created, they are terrible. Our students hate them. They're totally lost. We need to fix them or people are gonna hate us. I don't even know what the hell you're trying to say in these attachments. I'd say something like, listen, guys, I love what you've done with the course materials. You allowed me to walk into this job with a great foundation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I am grateful for that. I have noticed a few sticking points and gaps in the materials that are making the course hard for my students. I've been playing with some solutions that seem to be working. I'd love to share them with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Maybe we can talk about building them into the materials so the curriculum can just get better and better because I'm sure we all agree that our goal is to make English as accessible as possible for our students. We all want them to succeed. Something like that. Just a little grace, sensitivity, acknowledgement. They really do go a long way in making the medicine go down smoother.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Before we begin, something I've been thinking about lately, a lot of great opportunities get wasted chasing the idea of slightly better ones. For example, would your career be more successful if you had taken that other job or you'd moved to a different city? Maybe, I think about this a lot actually just for myself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And Gabe, I think when you design a course and it kind of sucks, you know that it sucks and you're like, okay, this needs work, but I'm done with it for now. So if somebody comes in and goes, I'd like to fill in the gaps, usually, unless you're an egomaniac, you probably would be like, oh, thank you. Because we threw this together. We didn't have that much time. We didn't have that many resources.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
We always meant to come back to it. And here we are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Exactly. It's not just performative. It's meaningful. But look, I can't tell you for sure when exactly you should have this conversation. There's so many variables at play here. The personalities of the people involved, the rules and customs of your college, its hiring practices, your relationships, your reputation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
There's a world where maybe you don't speak up about the course materials until they give you a full-time offer, okay? or you don't go all the way until you get the offer. You give your feedback in smaller chunks and see how it goes. Keep making these informal adjustments on your own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And then when you get hired full-time and you have a little bit more security and deeper relationships, then you give your big pitch. You're gonna have to read the tea leaves and listen to your gut there. You know better than we do. But here's what I know for sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
When you deliver tough feedback to people, when you give them total honesty, but you do it in a spirit of genuine love and excitement, which you clearly are, These conversations are rarely as risky as they seem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
They can still be daunting, but the chances that they're gonna blow up in your face are much lower, and if they do blow up in your face, it's usually because the people you're giving the feedback to are not willing to take it in, they can't meet you in that same spirit, which is always a possibility, but then kindness, respectfulness, graciousness, how well you communicate your why, all of that can even transform poor reactions over time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So I hope that gives you some new approaches here. Ultimately, I have a feeling your new colleagues will be grateful for the feedback because who wouldn't want a coworker like you? You're giving them a massive gift with these changes to the materials as long as you position them in the right way. They're lucky to have you. Your students are lucky to have you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You're exactly the kind of person who should be in education and I thank you for it. And again, just a brilliant case study of how effective and productive and courageous a person can be a little bit later in life. You're an inspiration, my friend. Good luck. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier. If there's an unstable, violent person targeting you and your family, you're trying to track down an ancient family member who's been hidden away, or you're wondering how to support a grandiose spouse's dreams, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
but the job you have now will definitely suffer if you don't give it 100% of your focus and your effort. Would you be 10% happier or more in some other relationship other than the one that you're in, whether it's our friendship, whatever it is?
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1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. Speaking of help, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, is something that's bite-sized and practical every week, most Wednesdays. If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand-plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. All right, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Maybe, who knows, but you're definitely gonna be unhappy in your relationships if you spend all of your time wondering what else is out there or lamenting something that you've lost in the past, assuming that the relationship you're in right now is a good one, of course. The easiest way to end up worse off
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Okay, interesting. So first of all, I hear you that you would be a good steward of your grandma's house, you'd continue the family legacy, you could really use the help. All fair. I hear that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I'm also just wrapping my head around the fact that you're basically talking about circumventing your whole family, including presumably your own parents and apparently your cousins and trying to become the beneficiary of this inheritance. which is delicate, to put it lightly. Play this out. Say you manage to talk to your grandma. She engages with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
She decides that, yes, you should get the house. And then at some point, she dies. Then you inherit the house. And the rest of the family finds out that she listed you as the beneficiary in her will without telling anyone else. Even if she tells them in advance, although it doesn't sound like that's her style, then that drama plays out while she is still alive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Either way, that's going to raise eyebrows, probably ruffle feathers, all the things, because her kids, who again, include your own parents, they would be the obvious beneficiaries of any assets. And knowing what I know about how contentious these inheritances can be when they're not done properly, I just don't see this going well whatsoever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Look, this was a little bit different in my family, right? Gabe, my parents, they grew up in Detroit. My grandma had eight kids. And by the time my grandma was a little bit senile going to nursing homes and stuff like that, it was my dad and her sisters who lived in Michigan. And everybody who lived far away or was a little bit too old, they were just kind of like, you handle it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And my dad and my aunt handled it. And when she passed away, my dad was like, okay, I'm going to sell the house and split it among everyone. And they were like, cool. But it was worth like two grand. It was really, it's in Detroit, for God's sake. I don't even know if they have electricity and water in that neighborhood now. So this was like a hot potato.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
This sounds like the opposite kind of situation where unless everybody gets along really well, it's going to be hard enough even for the kids to deal with it, let alone like, why did she give this to one grandkid? There's no scenario in which this turns out without pissing everyone off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
is to obsess over the paths that you didn't take instead of making the most of the one that you did. Every moment spent longing for a life you didn't choose is time that you're not putting into the life that you actually have. And that's not to say that you can't want other things or you can't change your life or whatever. Of course you can. You should in many cases. But...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Also, did they not grow up in that house? So they're just not going to have any say over their childhood home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Look, for me personally, if I had a couple of brothers and my parents were like, we're leaving you the house. I would be like, you guys handle this? Yeah, I'm established. Maybe one of them needs the money more. Maybe they still live in Michigan and I live in California. That doesn't seem to be the case here, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
She's not saying everybody lives in Oklahoma and this is still in Michigan and I'm the only one here. That's not what's going on here. Anyway, the responsible way to do this, the respectful way to do this is to make this a family conversation. You've got to get your parents and their siblings together. Don't try and get your parents to fight for this, to advocate for you here, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You got to get the other grandkids. You got to put everyone on one email thread, something. And then you talk about the house. You say that you love it. You want it to stay in the family. You'd be honored to restore it and be the steward of the family legacy. And you're curious to know if her children know whether grandma has a will, has her affairs in order.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And if so, who is set to inherit the house, what their plans for it are, whether they'd be open to a conversation about you being involved in some way, whether that means helping with the renovations or becoming a co-owner down the road or buying it outright. And if they don't know what the Will situation is, why and what are they doing about that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Or if everyone's open to it, talking to grandma about potentially leaving it to you, although I would not lead with that idea because I think it would be way too self-serving and obvious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
What you want is to start a conversation about making sure that grandma's affairs are all in order because that's the right thing to do regardless, which look, even that's a delicate conversation because your aunts and uncles might be like, why are you so interested? What's with you and the house? Really, this is primarily between your grandma and her kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I know you said they'd probably support you in taking ownership of the house, but you don't know that for sure I'm afraid that's probably a little naive. I don't know anybody who doesn't want to inherit an asset that is rightfully theirs, even if it's a bit of a headache and they're just going to sell it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So actually, there's a precursor to this conversation where you just ask your parents or a few of your aunts and uncles, hey, I know grandma doesn't really like to talk about this stuff. but she mentioned that she's not sure how long she's gonna be around. And I just wanted to make sure, are you guys on top of the estate stuff? Do you guys have a lawyer? Is there a plan for the house?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And just find out first. And look, Gabriel, tell me what you think here. I'm a fan of the parable where you say something like, I'm only asking because a friend of a friend, their grandmother died and she didn't have a will and it was this big mess and it was in court and it was really expensive. I just thought, does grandma have a will? I've never heard anything about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's not really any of my business, but I'm just curious. You don't have to have a real friend of a friend. I like to illustrate the consequences. For me, I can say, hey, as an attorney here, I'm thinking with my lawyer brain, does your mom have an estate that's all set? Because a lot of people wait till the last minute and you don't want to do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If you're not a lawyer, it's harder to do that because she might not have a will and she's not telling anybody or she's not handling her estate properly and she's like, ah, it's not my problem. I'm going to be dead. I know a lot of people like that too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And it's just creating a massive headache and a potential battle for her kids when she goes, which is not cool and is a terrible situation and can do serious damage inside families. So I would casually ask your parents what the deal is. If they're like, yeah, she has that all squared away. We just don't know the details. Then at least you can rest easy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
The house won't fall into probate or whatever. And you might also know that getting the house is just not an option. And if they're like, no, we have no idea if she has a will. It's funny you mentioned that. We just all talked about that. We're all concerned. Mom's making it really hard. She's probably putting it off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
When you want your life to be radically different from what it is, especially when you're not taking actions to create that life, you're just fantasizing or you're pining for something different, that's when you can easily miss the great people and situations and opportunities that are in front of you right now. Which these usually become better when you embrace them and when you nurture them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Then you have much more license to say, okay, yeah, I'm really concerned about that because this could turn into a huge mess. You guys need to sort this out. It's time to talk to grandma, hire a lawyer, make sure the house is in the will and all that. And I'm happy to help if you'd like.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
What I'm getting at is, there's a much more important conversation to be had here, and getting your grandma to give you the house, not a kosher move to make, not right now. I'm actually a little surprised that you're thinking of doing this, given that you said that the last thing you wanna do is cause a rift in your family. I'm not accusing you of being a bad person or an a-hole here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I think it's naivete, maybe. But I promise you that secretly scheming to get her to leave you the house, that is almost definitely going to cause a rift. It's going to cause problems for you. It's going to cause problems for your parents, most likely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And now look, if you guys have a conversation as a family about this, and your parents and your aunts and your uncles are all like, yeah, I don't want the house. Oh my God. We'll sell it and we'll each get $20,000 because it is Michigan. Although again, this seems unlikely, but if they're somehow all cool with you inheriting it, that's a different story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Then it's all in the up and up, although it doesn't really solve the problem of your cousins, the other grandkids. They might want a piece of the house too. So I appreciate that you'd be a great steward of the family legacy. I get that you have the time and the resources to restore it. I know it's tempting because you're the only grandchild who's in the area. You don't have a house of your own yet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But unfortunately, that is not enough to justify this strategy. My advice really is to focus on empowering your parents and their siblings to plan ahead as much as possible. That's responsible. That's appropriate. It does benefit you, too, indirectly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If there's a conversation to be had about playing a bigger role in the house, you can have it then, but you're going to have to be much more thoughtful about the rules and the optics here. Gabe, I know he said, oh, I could probably buy it, but then I would have less money to restore it. If it's your family, ask them for a really cush payment plan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Hey, I don't have enough money to buy it and restore it. I'd love to restore it and then pay you guys each $1,000 a year. They might not care, but you can't do it in some sort of shady backroom way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's fascinating. And some of it might come from grandma who never talks about anything. She raised all these kids who might also not talk about anything important.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, you know, you're right. This sort of let's not face this head on seems to run in the family somehow, which is normal. I'm getting the sense this really is the family way. And the problem with that is when nobody's talking openly, there's all this secrecy that a tactic like this, it might feel like fair game or the easiest way to handle it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But he might just be dealing with the same avoidances as grandma. And it's going to blow up later. That's the problem always. So go talk to your family. Encourage them to get on top of this estate stuff. Gently push them to have the important conversations they need to have with your grandma. That's the right thing to do. That's your role here for now. Good luck. And hey, I hope you get the house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And it's funny because I see this playing out in my own life. I have the kids jumping around me and I'm like, I really need time to do this other thing. And I'm thinking, I got my kids hanging out. We're eating together. They're throwing food at each other, jumping around on some mattress that I just unwrapped in the hallway. This is really great. This is where I'm supposed to be right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But I hope you do it in the right way. And if open, genuine communication doesn't work, you can always bribe your family with the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you. Thank you. Every morning, they break down the top three stories in like 15 minutes or less, just what's happening and why it matters. I listen to Up First during breakfast.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
By the time I'm done, I feel more or less caught up. They cover everything, politics, business, international stuff, without making it feel like you're just drowning in bad news. And the hosts are straightforward, but they keep it human. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Not wishing I was in Lake Tahoe snowboarding because I'll be in Lake Tahoe snowboarding and then I'll be missing my kids. So that sort of on the macro scale is what I'm talking about here. And again, change is possible. Choices do definitely matter. But so does commitment. And I really think that commitment wins in the end by a long shot. All right. As always, we've got some fun ones.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
We've got some doozies. I cannot wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
That's funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Look, I get it. I really do. I'm not minimizing any of that. I understand he needs some time, although let's also remember it's been five years of this. Five years doesn't sound like that long of a time. But then I realize I have a five year old kid and I'm like, man, He can do math, for God's sake. But to me, threatening to take your own life if somebody leaves you, it's just so extreme.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's so revealing of a problem that is ultimately hers. I just can't imagine sticking around. Maybe I'm an a-hole.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Dicey. By the way, we didn't even touch on the other detail about the business they ran together. Oh, yeah. How it was losing money. She's like, no, you never say die. Terrible idea, by the way. The whole never give up in business is some of the worst advice you can get or give. That led to them losing money, of course. I hear that and I'm like, okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Here's a woman who's very defiant, very headstrong, very committed to sticking with something that isn't working, probably possibly watches too many YouTube videos from Gary Vaynerchuk. But this compromised them in the process. And it's kind of ironic because she was so committed to the business, but she doesn't seem to be committed to her life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You'd think somebody who's suicidal would have been different to the business, but she's very invested there and seemingly not nearly as invested in, I don't know, taking care of herself to the point where she could survive a divorce, literally.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Hang on one second. You know what's funny about this is I was thinking, oh man, it signed into our dad's iCloud account. She better be really careful that her dad doesn't notice what apps and things that she has downloaded on this other phone. Meanwhile, she's like, well. I went into the purchase history that my dad probably doesn't even know existed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, which explains why she'd rather lose money than admit that something they created is not working.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Might be a metaphor for their entire marriage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I could totally see that because in a way that business thing is a footnote compared to all the suicidality, but it's all connected. And you're right, how she relates to the business, how she feels the business is a reflection of her. That's got to mirror how she feels about a lot of the other parts of her life, including our friend here. I hope that gives you some new angles here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Obviously, I don't think this marriage is healthy or sustainable, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's game over. But if there's a way forward, you're both gonna have to have some very real conversations. Your wife is gonna have to confront these parts of herself. You're gonna have to stop cramping around her to avoid them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
The one big upside to giving it a go, you'll know for sure whether you guys are willing to do that. And if you're not, then maybe you'll feel more secure in your decision to leave. But I'm afraid that's where this is heading regardless. And that's where you really need to be willing to live with the consequences and remember which ones you're responsible for and which ones you're not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Sending you, your wife, and your kids a big hug and wishing you all the best. All right, now for the recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And I see that he's been installing dating apps and then failing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
That's so funny. Somehow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. She's like, it's a trap phone. Who's trapped now?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You know, I've got a, on my Todoist app that I use for all my to-dos, once a week I send genuine appreciation to someone because it's easy to forget to do this. But I'll just write a random friend and I'll be like, hey man, three years ago you gave me this idea to count calories and weigh my food and it has changed my entire life and here's how.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And it's just wanted you to know like that random text changed the entire direction of my body and mind forever. And people are like, whoa, dude, thank you for sharing. I was just feeling sorry for myself. Or I was just driving to the gym. This made my day. It's really cool to do that. And it's not just to get the reaction out of people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Oh.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's actually just I think it strengthens the relationship, period. And I second everything you said. It's kind of straight out of sixminutenetworking.com. And I agree this works best when you're not explicitly trying to cultivate a relationship in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But I find that doing this kind of thing, of course, it often does cultivate or strengthen the relationship because it's such a nice way to to kick things off or remind somebody of the impact they've had on you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I think I said this on the show recently, a lot of people, especially young people, they write to me and they're like, I'm 18 or I'm 20, 25, whatever, I'm just starting out, I wanna meet this amazing author, I wanna meet this senior person at my company who gave this great talk, whatever it is, I have nothing to offer them, so I don't know where to start, I'm just gonna not say anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And I'm always like, hey, dude, that is enough. Your gratitude is enough. A five-sentence email telling them why you responded to what they said or did, that is enough. And if you can tell them what you did with what they put out specifically, how you put it into action, what results it led to, even better, because that's really what makes these notes pop. But I'm with you, Gabe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's not about pushing for any specific outcome. You have to hit pause on the part of your brain that's hoping for something more. But the cool thing is, when you keep your intentions pure, people tend to respond to that the best. Whereas a request for career advice wrapped in a compliment, that kind of dilutes the message and it can be self-serving. There's an author named Brad Meltzer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
He's a friend of mine. And the reason he's a friend of mine, I read something that he put out and I was like, oh, this is really good. And I told my agent this. And she's like, oh yeah, I love his stuff too. And she told another agent who told Brad Meltzer and Brad Meltzer reached out to me and was like, hey, we should chat. And I said, okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And I can't remember exactly what the business reason was, but it doesn't matter. He sent me a ton of his books. And then recently we caught up again. He's going to come on the show because he just gave a great speech and it's got a great message that I wanted to share with everybody. Now we're just buddies. It's really funny how that worked.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And it was all because I reached out to somebody to say, hey, I really like this guy's work and I know he's famous and doesn't care, but I'd love to just get that message over to him. Look, I'm a big fan of this one. I had to soapbox for a moment about how this connects to everything in the sixminutenetworking.com courses, and this is useful at every age, at every stage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I still do it myself, like I said, but it's especially useful for people who are just starting out or starting over, and this stuff is totally free. I don't just mean the course, the idea of reaching out to somebody and telling them how they've impacted you. That is free. It only costs you a little bit of time, and the return on that investment could be huge.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Look, we can assume a lot of men watch porn on their phone. But when it's favorited, the names are right there in the favorites list. And she's like, what does this mean? And it's, oh, gosh. Oh, wow. And you know she clicked on one and was like, oh, that's what that is. Oh, my God.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Also, folks, the subreddit for our show, if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there's an episode you like, there's something you don't like, you're confused about, a lot of cool, fun conversations happening over there, you can find it at reddit.com if you are a Redditor over in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Actually, not liking this podcast is one of the single best reasons to end any relationship. You have three kids with somebody, total intimacy, undying romance. You never fight. They cook you breakfast in bed every day, but they don't like this show. Just I would say end it now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I'm loving this so far, clearly because I'm a narcissist, but seriously, just to say, if you heard our Dr. Romany episodes, our Feedback Friday episodes about narcissism, and you were like, oh man, that sounds like me sometimes, you're probably not a capital N pathological narcissist. Those people, 95% of the time, they literally can't even begin to confront that quality in themselves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But we all contain narcissistic traits to some degree, even if we don't have the clinical disorder. So if you were able to see that more clearly because of the show, fantastic. I love it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Wow. Paid down $105,000 so far. Bravo.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, a lot of ramen noodles in that house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Amazing. It can. Not everyone gets there, though, sadly. But yeah, all trauma, even difficult trauma, it's always a window into something profound. Yeah. We've talked about the concept of post-traumatic growth before. Not everyone has the courage or the tools to explore that, but the opportunity is always there, which is remarkable. Amazing you were able to make this transformation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Man, this is such a great letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
As long as it's this podcast, fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I can tell that's a Gabe sign off. What a letter, though. This is very inspiring. As per usual with stories like this, I don't have a ton to add. I'm just very grateful that you shared all this with us, with everyone listening. And I'm honored that we could play a role in ruining your life. I'm giving you another shot at life, whatever, bit of both.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Actually, that's what stands out the most to me about your story, how you had to lose something really important to you in order to evolve. Obviously, my mind went to my sort of trauma, if you can call it that. It seems a little silly to use that word for it. But my big show reset in 2018, how painful that was having to start over. But I came to the exact same conclusion that you did.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It really was the best thing that ever happened to me. But if you'd asked me back then, hey, do you want this? I would have been like, hell no. Keep things exactly the way they are. It's going to be impossible to recover from this. Even though things were far from perfect back then, I desperately needed to make some changes. It's funny. We're such... conservative creatures as human beings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
We don't want to expend any more energy than is absolutely necessary to get where we want or what we want, and we try to organize our lives to create as much stability as possible. Even if the status quo is super dysfunctional, like where you found yourself in 2022, which is actually not that long ago, man, a couple years ago, oftentimes something external has to come along to force us to wake up
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
a partner leaving, a job falling apart, an illness, whatever it is. And yeah, that can be awful. It's very stressful. It's very unpleasant. It brings up a lot of anger and fear and grief. But what your letter captures so beautifully is it also creates space. It shakes the etch-a-sketch. It creates new room for us to reconnect with ourselves, to try new things, to form new relationships.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It shocks us into waking up. Right. Most of the time, myself included, we're on autopilot. We have to lose something. Some big disruption has to happen for us to sit up and go, oh, yeah, okay, I'm alive. I'm living my life. How am I living my life? Am I making the most of my life? And then the other big thing that loss does, of course, is it forces us to confront some difficult truths.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Although, I gotta say, that's not the case for everyone. It's far from guaranteed. Some personalities, especially narcissistic personalities, they tend to respond to big losses like this by digging in harder, growing more resentful, doubling down on the story that they're right and everyone else is wrong and they're the victim and the world's out to get them and blah, blah, blah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
which is another reason that I doubt you are a pathological or clinical narcissist. But like I said, we all have narcissistic traits, and those traits, they're often defenses against the very feelings that you had to confront after the breakup, especially the shame. The shame of having to admit, man, I am not healthy. I am not stable. I am not taking care of myself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I did not treat my partner well. I have some stuff to work through. That's intense. And that can be wounding. So where a narcissist would go, screw you for leaving. You're not on my team. You're too needy. All you want for me is to listen to the podcast you listen to. Nobody gets me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You said, essentially, I have a lot of feelings about this, and one of them is that I might be wasting my life or going down the wrong path. Let me give this thing a listen. And look where that got you. Being able to tolerate the tension of those feelings got you. It opened up a whole new process, a whole new worldview, a whole new set of opportunities.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's really extraordinary, just that willingness to be wrong, to bear shame, to take another person's opinion seriously. It is extraordinary. So I really commend you for that. You're a case study in how to surrender to loss, how to make meaning out of grief, how to use these crises to grow rather than to shrink or stay stagnant. And I'm very touched that we've been part of that process with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So to answer your question, finally, how to reach out to more men to help them, I think you're already doing the most important thing, which is sharing your story. It's a powerful one, and the beauty of it is it shows that you're actually living these values that you talk about. You're not just talking about growth and healing and all that. You're in this process.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You're embracing these ideas and putting them into action. So I would say keep sharing your story one-on-one for sure, and maybe in larger venues if you feel moved to do that. This show is one of them. You could post this in a few subreddits around personal growth or relationships or breakups or something like that. You can start a conversation. You could publish it as a blog or a newsletter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You could go tell it at storytelling shows in your town. They have those all over the world. Maybe work up to a moth style event or a TEDx or whatever, if that's interesting to you. But my feeling is, look, if you really want to help people grow the way you have, wonderful. If that's truly your calling, you'll find it reflected back to you when you talk about what you went through.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So that is a Dark Jordan idea, like where your head's at in terms of, I feel seen. But I'd never pitch that for somebody who hasn't done something truly horrible. And before you tell me that abuse is horrible, I know. So far, though, this guy is just secretly watching porn and possibly slash probably cheating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And that would be a good signal that you should be more proactive in sharing this stuff. But you also don't necessarily need to go out looking for people to save. I'm not saying it's your intention. It's just a pitfall of teaching. It has the potential to be a little crusadery, maybe a little pushy. I know how to help you. Let me work on you. I'm not sure that's what you want.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Exactly. What are you, a podcaster for God's sake?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. Room to talk over here, Gabe, Mr. Advice Column. But you know what? You did say that we're a couple of Lydia's today. You're right, though. You generally want to pull more than push. And again, if you are being called to help people in a more formal way, like some kind of coaching, and you want to formalize that role, hey, go for it. I'm not saying you can't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But I think this stuff needs to unfold organically on its own to some degree for it to be truly meaningful. If you find yourself working very hard to find people to help, I think that's usually a sign that you're trying to achieve something else. And what that thing is, I'll let you figure that out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's a pitfall that I think all people in the self-development world have to confront at some point. And it's not all bad, but it is something to keep an eye on. I can't help but notice that a lot of people who are in the mix of something and solving a bunch of problems in their life, they get three steps into a hundred steps and they're like, I want to be a coach. It's sort of,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
solidifies their identity as somebody who's like an action taker and doing something about it. It's like you don't have to become a professional yoga instructor in order to go to a yoga class, but a ton of people want to do that with coaching. And I don't totally understand why. It happened in the dating world when I was working in the dating world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
people would sign up for a bootcamp and like on day two, what does it take to be an instructor? Why are you even thinking about that right now? We're trying to iron out the yellow belt stuff here, pal. I get it though. It's just something to keep an eye on, like I said, and your motivations, your ways of connecting with people, the spirit in which you meet them,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Those have to be very pure, always, but especially early on. And look, I appreciate the question. I love that you want to be of service. I'm extremely moved that your story has inspired other people to grow. All of that is incredible. Those are signs that you have something important to offer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And it really is a testament to the remarkable transformation that you've been through, the man you've become, and I'm very proud of you for that. I can tell you are too, as you should be. So thank you for clicking on that link that your ex sent you when you were definitely not going through her text so that you could respond to something that was months old.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I'm going to go through all these and find something mean that you said. He was actually hunting for those podcast links. All right, fine. I'll listen to Jordan Harbinger and maybe she'll come back to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Not okay by any means, but not, in my opinion, bad enough to ruin his life over, in my view. Not bad enough to deprive your niece of a father. And you don't know him to be physically abusive, so let's maybe not play the ice card just yet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
That's right. Text every girl right now dating anybody. Text this to your man. Tell him that if you don't listen to this, it's over. That's what I need right now. Actually, man or woman, do that to your partner right now. That's the mark of a healthy relationship that you can lay down an ultimatum out of nowhere in the middle of any Sunday, any weekend when everything else is fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Do you love me or not? Here's the link. If you do, you listen to this podcast. And you support our sponsors too, right? As a massive thank you for changing your whole life. I kid. Keep up the great work. We are super pumped for you. Thank you for being a part of our show, fam. And everybody, go back and check out our episodes with Scott Payne and our Skeptical Sunday on Hangover Cures.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If you haven't done so yet, show notes and transcripts over at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with us on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer. I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing things you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. Are you addicted to drama? Check out this preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with psychologist Dr. Scott Lyons.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Learn to recognize and heal from drama addiction on episode 836 with Dr. Scott Lyons on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Oh, man, what a mess. I'm very sorry that you and your niece are in this position. Knowing more about your brother-in-law than your sister does, that's super uncomfortable. It puts you in a tough spot. But I'm especially sorry for your niece. She should not know this much about her parents' private lives.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I feel terrible she's sitting on this information that she's caught in the middle at her age. It's got to be very weird and confusing for her, and I'm sure that's doing a number on her. In addition to watching her parents argue, hearing her dad speak poorly about her mom, this is all very sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
even if he isn't physically abusive, the fact that she's afraid he might go there, just that fear is pretty upsetting. It does make me wonder if she's seen him get physical before or maybe behave in a way that suggests he's capable of that or who knows, maybe she's just scared and imagining the worst and he's relatively harmless.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Either way, your sister's gonna find out about all of this one way or another and it shouldn't fall to her daughter to break the news to her. You're the adult here, you're her sibling, you're her friend, so I'm afraid that it makes it your responsibility to break the news to her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my Feedback Friday producer, the guy who, you knew this was coming back, the guy who's Kalulu in my Dalulu, Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And if you could use some help in delivering the news, having another close family member there, a mutual friend, that's also an option. But I would not tell her with your niece. She just should not play any part in this conversation. She's still a child. The greatest gift you could give her is to let her stay one as much as is possible at this point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Although I understand she's the one who found out, so she's going to be involved to some degree. They're obviously going to talk about it, but it doesn't mean she should be the one to tell her mom that dad is cheating on her and watching porn and this is the kind of porn he's into and all that stuff. That's just totally inappropriate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Agreed. So that's what I would do. And then you have to let your sister decide how she wants to handle this. She might leave him. She might decide to stay with him and work on things. That's up to them. I think you have to give her space to handle this however she wants to, support her in whatever way she feels she needs. But look...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If this escalates, if your brother-in-law does turn out to be physically abusive, for example, then I would consider calling the police or calling CPS, of course. And if that means he might get deported, well, maybe that's a risk people take when they break the law. But that's a very different calculation from calling ICE on him before he's done something truly dangerous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
That just seems unnecessary and unfair. I'm very sorry that things have played out this way. It is super awkward and sad, but this is what's happening. And your niece is gonna have to find her own way of healing from this childhood, her own stance on her parents.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We'll see you next time. Turns out the KKK is still around, which kind of surprised me, among other things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
The best thing you can do, besides protecting her from this tough conversation, is staying close with her, being a safe person for her to talk to, supporting her, helping her make sense of all this and enjoy her last few years of childhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I'm sure her relationship with you is going to be one of those things that allows her to survive this tough chapter and hopefully grow into a happy, healthy, well-adjusted adult. Sending you all a big hug and wishing you all the best. Man. Now, I want you to use your trap phone to creep on the pornographically good deals on the fine products and services that support this show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
We'll be right back. Thank you. Think self-driving cars, AI that codes itself, robots, laser-powered internet, even wildfire prediction technology. But it's not just the tech. It's about the people, the mindset, and the crazy journey of taking an idea from this is never going to work to holy crap, it actually works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Astro Teller sits down with the thinkers and creators behind these projects to tackle big questions like how we make clean energy a reality, how tech can save the planet. What I love about the show is it's not just about the hype. It's about real stories, real failures, and the resilience it takes to build something groundbreaking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If you're the kind of person who loves hearing how impossible ideas become real, the moonshot podcast is 100% for you. Just premiered on March 10th with new episodes every week. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is also sponsored by Bear Mattress. It's easy to assume a mattress is just a mattress until we got a Bear Mattress.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I did not realize how much of a difference quality mattress makes until this one showed up. Not to sound dramatic, but this is hands down the nicest mattress that I've ever laid on. I've been sleeping on beds for, I think, 45 years, more or less. Bear really nailed it. They're award-winning. They're made right here in the U.S.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
with certified clean materials, and they back it with a limited lifetime warranty, plus free shipping anywhere in the U.S., We started by taking their sleep quiz, which is super quick, super easy. It matched us with the Bear Elite Hybrid, which sounds very fancy. And it is. It turns out it's exactly what we needed. Jen and I are both side sleepers. I kind of, well, I'm kind of all over the place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
The pressure relief is just chef's kiss. And the setup couldn't be easier. They deliver it vacuum sealed right to your door. You roll it out and you'll see the quality. And here's the thing. Bear gives you 120 nights to try it out. So if you're not sleeping like a newborn by then, they'll pick it up. No hassle. Full refund.
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1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Thank you for listening and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the deals page, jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Okay, I love this. Way to hustle and look for ways to be of value. This is exactly the spirit that makes people indispensable and gets them hired. You sound like an amazing employee. Also, congrats on being able to think straight in your early 60s. I'm 45 and some days I'm like, how does this microwave thing work? I don't get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. In my defense, this thing has 20 buttons and it has to come out of the wall first. It's really nuts. I want to be able to talk to it and tell it what to do instead of freaking programming it in Python or whatever. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. Plus, I wouldn't be so lonely all the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
There's also gangs called Accelerationists, which just want the whole world to burn, which, you know, maybe they're winning. I don't know. We also had a Skeptical Sunday last Sunday on Hangover Cures. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and dole out presumptuous advice to you folks, like a couple of busybody Lydia's.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Your daughter is scared because the bad guys that she didn't see at all on camera and the police came. She's a little nervous. This would have been way worse if she's like, why are there two dead people in giant blood pools in our backyard slash bedroom? That would have been way worse, right? Because she would have seen or heard that. I mean, they have to take the bodies out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, so for those of you who didn't sort of see this Instagram story that I threw of the broken window, the door wall, whatever those things are called, On Monday night, I was in my bedroom at 8 p.m. because it was a little jet-lagged, a little under the weather, as you can hear, I'm a little stuffed up. And so I decided to go to bed early.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, it would have been hard to hide that from the kids. So this is actually the best alternative, although I do, like most people I'm sure who've had a break in, fantasize that I should have just killed one or two of them. Spare me the emails about how these people might have fallen on hard times. I don't care. There's a lot of people who've fallen on hard times.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They don't go breaking into other people's homes, especially while they're home. to rob them. So I actually do hope that they get lit up by the next person whose house they break into. And maybe the other two surviving guys in this crew will change their mind about how they make a living. I have zero sympathy for people like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They had no problem causing thousands of dollars in damage and scaring my kids. I don't even know what they would have done if they got in the house. I'm sure they would have at the very least trashed every room looking for valuables. and smashed things. And that would have been super violating. And my wife wouldn't have wanted to live here anymore because it wouldn't have felt safe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And the cleanup would have taken weeks or months to get everything cleaned up and replaced. So I really have zero sympathy for this kind of stuff. And the cops were like, I'm surprised you didn't go for the kill. And I'm like, you know, I do. They said that to you? Yeah. The female cop was like, I'm surprised you didn't kill one of them. I'm like, you know what?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm actually a little bit surprised slash bummed. And the other cop was like, no, no, no, you did the right thing. You had the perfect reaction because I was a little bit bummed. I was like, man, I really should have lit one of these dudes up. He's like, no, because, you know, if they're in a gang, they're going to want revenge against this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And like, this is the beginning of an ongoing feud between you and them. And he's like, what you did, which was scare the crap out of them, make them realize they don't know when you're home and when you're not, and then barricade your family safely. reaction.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's what she said. She was like, I'm surprised you didn't take at least one of them out. I was like, I did think about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It happens. This was the best outcome. Literally just pay a few grand to replace the door wall. And of course, we have way more lighting, way more motion sensors, way more locks, upgrades on a lot of different stuff. So we're a harder target. And we didn't have to learn this lesson by getting held at gunpoint or having our whole home trashed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
What's scary is like I was robbed before in college. They broke in and stole a bunch of our stuff. And it was a quick sort of like, hey, let's take a watch, a cell phone, an Xbox. They left a lot of other stuff. And, you know, they took like a video camera. It was just kind of like, oh, that's a bummer. That sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
This is different because this is your forever home, not some crappy basement $800 a month in Ann Arbor, Michigan apartment. $800 was exorbitant, right? $400 a month equivalent apartment in Ann Arbor that you're going to leave in a year or six months or whatever it is. Yeah. But the cops were, again, really cool.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
The kids were already being read to in the other room, another book, after I finished reading them my book. And I'm laying down, and I was looking at Reddit, as one does when passing out. It's funny, because I was looking at something stupid, right? And then I hear this...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They were just like, you can email us anytime, call us anytime, even if you just want to vent. Let us know when you feel better. We care about you feeling at home or safe at home. And like, don't live in fear. These guys are, you know, not coming back. Take this cue, upgrade your security. I was like, are you guys real police?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Because everything I read about in the media, it really paints you guys in a completely different light.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
kid they were really really cool and really really professional and I just thought it was funny because first of all they're all in the house looking over at my phone playing the security video and one of the female cops she looks down and at my phone and then she looks down further and I realize I'm still in my underwear and I hand her the phone and I go I'm gonna put some pants on and she just starts laughing and all the cops start laughing and I assume the joke is oh he finally figured out that it's like hey dude you know you can get dressed and
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You are in your own home, in your bedroom with your phone. What a scene. So I put my pants on and we're just sort of joking around. And one of the guys was like, I got to say, man, it's a really nice house. And I was like, I had nothing to do with the design. My brother-in-law and my wife designed it. And he goes, is that a gym back there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I didn't check the backyard, but it looks like you had a gym back there. I was like, Let me cut to the chase. You guys can use the gym at any time. Please come back any time and use the gym, preferably after the sun sets, because if these guys come back and there's cops working out of the gym, I'm never getting robbed again, ever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
What was funny is they're clearing the house with guns. Right. They're guns out. And one of them goes, that's a screen back there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Is that crown molding? No, she goes, is that a screened in patio with those heat lamps? And the guy's like, check the hallway. And the other guy goes, oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, this is a heavy door. Oh, is he a streamer? There's a lot of lighting. He must be a streamer. And they're like, check the hallway. Get back here. Then they're like, what's in that room over there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She goes, there's a backpack. There's a computer. There's a really nice desk in there. And that's it. The room's clear. Because I have this custom wooden audio desk for all of my stuff that a show fan made. And then they go in the bedroom and they go in the kid's toy room. And then they're walking through the master where the guy had broken in. And then he's like, what's back there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
like a thud that was loud enough that something had hit the house, but it wasn't heavy, followed immediately by a real heavy thud that sounded like a frickin' tree hitting the window. And I got up and I was like, huh? And then I immediately thought, we don't have any trees. We have a fenced-in yard, so it's not like an animal ran into the wall. And if it did, it's got to be a big ass animal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And she goes, it's a hot tub on an elevated platform. And he goes, nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Exactly. It was quite funny. And they leave and they go, again, really nice, really nice house. Really, really nice home you got here. And I was just like, if anybody said that and it wasn't a police officer, you'd be a little bit like, okay. Did you break into my home an hour ago?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh, they were already there? Yeah, they're like, uh, park a block away. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's right. They were super cool, super professional. I was really impressed by that. And it does make you feel a lot better. And it makes, on the flip side, when you hear about people having bad experiences with the police, it makes you feel really bad for them because it would have felt horrible if they came and they were like, pfft. Yeah, someone broke in, huh? Looks like an inside job to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You know, and you hear about that stuff online. You read about that stuff online where cops treat people like they're the criminal after they call them. If that happened, that would feel horrible. So since that did not happen, the opposite happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It actually felt really good and really sort of you feel like the police have your back, which is probably the only thing that can make you feel comfortable again in a situation like this. So shout out to San Jose PD for their help. And I know it's hard to get these guys. You can't like buy police things. It doesn't, you're not allowed to do that directly. There's some sort of monetary thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So what I'm trying to do is get a bunch of the show sponsors to send the police stuff directly. I got to make sure that that's kosher, but basically they're getting a bunch of HVM and ketones and IQ bars. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Exactly, yeah. They get a lot of vitamins and minerals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, look, the upside of this whole thing, one of the many upsides, is my SimpliSafe reads are going to be fire from now on because we did use those panic buttons. Oh, that's good. That was the initial way we triggered it because Jen's like, I can't find my phone. Her phone is white and it was on a white bed and it was dark. So she's like, I just can't find it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So she went and hit the panic button. And that was what set off the alarm. Now, of course, we have way more sensors in the whole house because at first we just installed what they'd given us for free with the initial package. But now we have sensors on everything and we have double sensors on some of the bigger sort of entrances and exits. So it's Again, you know, you learn to harden the target.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
God, that's one of the grossest sort of, yeah, just those two words put together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It was a lot cheaper than even replacing the glass. So I implore all of you, you know, if you don't have a security system, it does work. It did call the cops. And if I weren't there to scare these guys away, the alarm, had it gone off, would have scared these guys away, I would imagine. Last but not least, thanks to everybody else who did send me messages and well wishes on Instagram.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I posted a picture of the door. I'm actually going to post the video of the guys breaking into because it's interesting. People are just being super cool about it online. It's sort of repairing a lot of my faith in humanity after the break in as well. Of course, the police response did that, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But everybody was like, oh, my God, I'm so glad you're safe and sending really nice notes or people I've never heard from are like, OK, I've been a lurker for 10 years, but I wanted to say thanks for the show. And I'm sorry that this happened to you. I wasn't really expecting that. I really posted that to tease the idea that I'm going to talk about it on the show like I am now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, we're talking like this sounded like a Rottweiler hitting the glass. So I started screaming, get out of here. I'll fucking kill you. I just went psycho. Right. And I just went absolutely batshit crazy. And I barricaded the rest of the house from Jen and the kids. And I was like, call 911. And I still had my phone in my hand. Wait.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And really the takeaway was harden the target beforehand. Get a security system. You know, simplisafe.com slash Jordan is a good place to start. Get glass break sensors. Make sure that your house is not like using crappy interior doorways if you do need to retreat inside the house. Get those solid core doors from Home Depot if you can find a sale. And just make sure you have a plan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You know, we really didn't have a good plan. A 10-minute discussion about where you should retreat, depending where you are in the house, would have gone a long way. Thankfully, we didn't need it. But had they tried to get into the rest of the house and Jen had, you know, a baby in one hand in the middle of the living room, that would have been not great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I would have personally felt better if she had retreated to the bathroom and locked the damn door. So there's other ways that you can handle this. And we just had never thought about it. And I recommend thinking about that stuff, too. So Harden the target, make sure you got the alarm system, make sure you got a strong interior door system, make sure you got a plan. That's really it. You know what?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
One other takeaway, and this is just for me personally, Like I said, I felt bad about not smoking one or two of those dudes because that's like my anger talking. But one of the things that the cop had said was, you know, it's fight, flight or freeze. And you fought and then you barricaded your house. You didn't hide under the blankets. I was like, no one does that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
He's like, uh, actually, a lot of people will hide under their blankets, which, of course, is not very effective. But again, if this is something you've done, according to Amanda Ripley, you can't feel ashamed of yourself because it's your natural reaction. I'm glad I didn't have that reaction, just me personally. On the other side of things, I said, oh man, I wish I'd gotten da-da-da.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And the cop was like, actually, the way people get hurt, you have the appropriate amount of fight reaction, which was charge at these guys, which I didn't see, remember, scream at them, scare them away, and then barricade yourself and the family in a safe place. If you fight too hard, he's like, the way people get hurt is they run into their yard and they tackle one of these guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then the guy's like, oh, crap, now I got to pull out my knife and get away because I don't want to go to jail or get killed by the homeowner. So he's like, the way people get hurt is they fight too much, even when it's not necessary. So what you want to do is make sure they don't feel trapped.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You want to scare them right back out the way they came so that they're not thinking, oh, I'm going to die in this guy's house. Bark, but maybe don't bite. Bark, but don't bite. Or punch him in the face, lay him out, and then you get out of the way and barricade yourself, and then he gets up and crawls out the window he just kicked in. That's the limit of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Don't try and hold him down until the police come. That's how you get shot by their partner or stabbed. So, all right. What's the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
God, what a mess. What a predictable mess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
No, I didn't see anybody, but I knew I felt cold air come in and I saw the curtain fly up. But here's the thing. It was windy. And also, if a tree had hit the window, it would have pushed the curtain over. I'll tell you later what that ended up being. But so I barricaded the rest of the house and I'm holding the door shut. which is like this flimsy interior door with a little turn latch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Wow, this is a wild story, man. Fascinating. Isn't it insane? First of all, I'm with you. I'm very sorry that your friend got involved with what sounds like a very troubled, very dangerous patient. I'm sorry for his troubles to some degree, too. And I'm sorry that she overlooked them or just didn't recognize how serious they were or would become.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Or maybe she totally did and just decided not to let that stop her. The abuse that she experienced, the blackmail, all of that must have been terrifying. And it sounds like your friend went through a nightmare and that's awful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And your friend chose to enter into a romantic relationship with this guy knowing that he was mentally ill, knowing that he struggled with addiction while she was married and not for the first time. knowing that that was wrong, knowing that it was a violation of her professional ethics and would get her fired and put her in a compromising position that that guy would have leverage over her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, come on. As you know, physicians have a clear ethical obligation to avoid romantic relationships with patients. Healthy, unhealthy, stable, unstable, sober, off the wagon, doesn't matter, it's a no-go.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
The American Medical Association and most, if not all, state medical boards, they strictly prohibit relationships between doctors and patients because it exploits the power imbalance inherent in the physician-patient relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And engaging in a romantic relationship with a patient who has mental health challenges, that's particularly unethical because the patient's vulnerability increases the potential for exploitation or harm. And the power dynamic in the relationship is even more complicated. Now, there are some exceptions to this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Jen's like, I can't find my phone. And I'm like, well, I'm holding my phone with one hand, so call 911. So we call 911. It's a little infuriating because you're like, someone's breaking into the house. And the guy's like, okay, sir, where are you right now? And you're like, no, no, you're supposed to be alarmed also. You know, of course they're not right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
The main one, of course, is if enough time has passed to dissolve the physician-patient relationship and any influence it might have had.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But even then, the appropriateness of the relationship depends on the nature of the previous relationship, the amount of time that has passed, the patient's mental health, their capacity to give informed consent, none of which apply to your friend because she started seeing her patient while he was still her patient.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So it makes sense that the medical board did an investigation, that her license was suspended, as it should be. These ethics, they are not just nice words. If you violate them, if somebody files a report, you can lose your whole career. Duh, that's the point. Gabe, this is reminding me of that letter we took from the listener whose psychiatrist hit on her a few months ago last year. Oh, yep.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Am I remembering this right? He lost his license too, or wasn't he sort of like, I'm going to retire now quickly?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
These doctors, man, I just don't understand how they make these decisions. Obviously, there's something wrong with them. Now look, your friend didn't know this guy would turn out to be so dangerous, so I have some, some compassion for her there. Once the abuse really began, I'm sure she was terrified and in over her head, and that's awful, but you're absolutely correct.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She brazenly flouted her professional ethics in getting involved with this patient. She placed her own needs first. This is not her first affair. This is apparently a pattern for her. She had more power in the relationship at the start, and she actively chose to engage with him,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And that decision could arguably be construed as taking advantage of a vulnerable patient, even if it ultimately turned out that he was the one taking advantage of her. Now, apparently, that's hard for her to take in. But that's not victim blaming. And actually calling that victim blaming, in my opinion, it's kind of an insult to actual victims.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
What you're saying is you experienced abuse from an unstable person. That was objectively horrifying. And you have my empathy and my sadness that this scary guy treated you this way. And you bear some responsibility, a great deal of the responsibility, I would argue, for getting involved with this guy in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You knowingly entered into a relationship that was explicitly proscribed and clearly very risky. Right. Both of those things can be true. And both of those things are true.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They're supposed to stay calm so that you calm down. But I'm just like, no, no, no. You kind of feel like, are you not taking me seriously? And of course it's just his training being like, of course I'm taking this seriously, man. I just don't want you to like lose your mind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm sorry. That's insane. She is a kook for coming to that conclusion. That's ridiculous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She's had like a dozen affairs or whatever it was from her partner of 15 years. It's always somebody else's fault. You got to support me. This person, she's also got whatever sort of mental health challenge going on with her. Dude, you're an unsupportive friend. After she literally told her, hey, I believe you 100% when you say you were afraid of this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm upset by the thought that you felt trapped by a scary, abusive person for so long. You're an unprofessional practitioner. That's the one that gets me. Like, what are you talking about? What are you freaking talking about? She's the one who started banging her mentally ill patient. What on earth is wrong with you? Unprofessional.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Either way, this woman is isolating herself. If she can't even make room for the idea that she might have played a little bit of a role in all this, there's no real conversation to be had.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
No, look, it doesn't change the fact that she chose to sleep with a vulnerable, unstable patient. She screwed up massively, full stop. I mean, I don't know if I would be kind. If someone called me and was like, I painted myself into this corner, I'd be like, oh man, I'm really sorry that you're in that situation. You do realize this is 100% your fault, You're an idiot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I don't want to be friends with you anymore. You're toxic. Go away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. I just don't want you to lose your mind even more than you already are. And I'm a little bit shaky, but I'm like... Well, I'll get into my reaction later. I'm a little bit shaky, but I'm also holding this door shut with a death grip, and I'm holding onto the phone, and I'm like, you know, I should have both hands free in case I need to punch somebody directly in the face.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It must, right? I don't think his qualities just pop up out of the blue. She's got her dumb enabling partner with her, too, who's stuck with her through all infidelity. Like, geez, get away from these people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, you're right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. To say nothing of what else she might have been getting out of their relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I completely forgot about that part. OK, this this woman is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Like, oh, yeah, I'm breaking all these rules. It's a real thrill. You're just going to gamble with your marriage and your career because you need a thrill. You are there is screws, multiple screws loose with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, especially the first part. What I don't get is why is that so hard? I mean, this woman's story is literally a perfect example of how two things can be true. She chose to engage with a mentally ill patient and he did some awful things to her. Those are the facts. So, you know, why fight it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Splitting. Okay, I've never heard of this. Tell me about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So I give the phone to Jen... And she's like, I don't know what happened. I heard two thumps. And then I heard my husband screaming and they're like, the police are on their way. And I'm like, I can feel the cold air blowing in under the door.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It does sound like what's going on here. That's fascinating. I didn't realize that was a coping mechanism. Wait, didn't her friend accuse her of flattening her experience of the fear and abuse, whatever that means? She did say that, yeah. But isn't that exactly what she's doing by being so black or white about this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Isn't splitting the way that you flatten her experience of herself so that it's more tolerable? That's...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, just lawyering up over here. If you're going to use therapy, speak, I'm going to use that lawyers. So once, once again, she's accusing our friend here of doing the very thing that she's doing. And our friend here isn't by the way, even doing that in my opinion. And meanwhile, she can't even make room for the idea that she might've played even some small role in this, which is ridiculous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Cool projection, bro. That is fascinating. Yeah. Better help.com slash Jordan. Just saying. Jeez. Yeah. Nice plug.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I know that the door is blasted open and it wasn't just, you know, my imagination because there's always the chance that like people heard something fall outside and they're just freaked out. Right. And I was like, no, I feel the window is broken. I can feel the cold air rushing into the house. So the police come in just minutes, single digit minutes, very quickly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, dude, same. You have to take accountability for your piece of things, even when they're not entirely your fault. Although I still feel this woman largely brought this on herself, or at least was playing with fire. The rules are there for freaking reason. I think a lot of people have a skewed sense of what judgmental means or when it's warranted and when it's not warranted. First of all,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
expecting people, even people who love you, to not be judgmental at all. What is that? That's some kind of fantasy. We're all judgmental to some degree, some of us more than others. And yeah, it's generally more helpful to be less judgmental than more, fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But I don't know if it's fair to expect a friend, and it's definitely not fair to expect a colleague in your profession, to not have any thoughts and feelings about something as important as professional ethics. Because also, not all judgments are wrong. Like you said, there is such a thing as helpful values, appropriate discernment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So when this friend turns around and goes, you're being judgmental, you're flattening my experience with your moralizing. Okay, that's a totally bogus argument. This woman deserves some judgment. She doesn't necessarily deserve cruelty. She doesn't necessarily deserve to be hated or whatever, but a fair reminder that she abandoned her good judgment and ethics is totally fair game.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And like Gabe said, how you communicate all this to her, that obviously plays a big role in how she experiences your judgment. But a person who can't tolerate other people having a freaking opinion about whether she was right or wrong to sleep with a mentally ill patient under her care. I'm sorry, but that person is narcissistic and possibly delusional or just incredibly naive and annoying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So no, you're not being unfair here. You know, you're not being overly rigid, especially given how this woman has responded to you. If she'd gone, oh god, I'm really angry at you for not taking my side, I feel gross about how you view me, I feel like I was the victim, but I also chose to sleep with him, I'm embarrassed, I'm confused, I'm ashamed, that would be a different story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That would be a person making room for both realities, living with the tension of what happened to her, like Gabe said, but... As long as she is choosing to understand what happened to her through this lens, I'm afraid she's being unfair and rigid. And, you know, maybe that's not entirely her fault in the sense that God knows what happened in her life to make her this way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But as we talk about all the time, this is her responsibility to sort out and get her shit together. In my view, you're good to move on. I would not want to be friends with anybody like this. You should feel secure in your standards and your values. Look, I hope this woman finds her way into therapy, into more nuance, into better choices from here on out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But I don't see why you have to be around any of this crap in the meantime. I wouldn't touch this person with a 10-foot pole. And now, please support our sponsors so I can put a laser sight on my 9mm. We'll be right back. Thank you for watching.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
In these companies, they scoop up everything, your phone number, your email, your home address, even details about your family, and they don't just sell it to advertisers. Scammers, spammers, sketchy third parties can buy your info, too, because they don't give a crap who they sell this stuff to. This leads to identity theft, phishing attempts, a whole lot of unwanted contact.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, it seemed to me like four minutes or five minutes. And I think when we looked at the videotape, it was something like five or six minutes before they were at our door with the door open. They were like, get out of the house. So they came in, they looked in the door. They're like, sir, run over here as fast as you can. So I let go of the door and I sprint out the front of the house. And
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's why I use and recommend DeleteMe. It's a subscription service that removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker websites so you don't have to. You just tell them what you want gone, and their experts track it down and scrub it from the web automatically. And they don't just stop there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Delete.me continues to regularly check and remove data so that it stays gone, because this is kind of like whack-a-mole. They even send you privacy reports so you can see exactly what they've found and erased, which I have to say is pretty satisfying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
This episode is also sponsored by Redwood Outdoors. Ever thought about having your own personal wellness retreat at home? Most people don't realize how easy it is to set up a sauna or a cold plunge right in their backyard. But with Redwood Outdoors, you can turn that idea into reality without needing a fancy spa membership or a weekend getaway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Plus, it's not just solo relaxation time. Saunas can be social too. Redwood Outdoors has options that fit anywhere from two to eight people. Not that I have eight friends or seven, but it's nice to have the option. A man can dream. It's a great way to connect, recharge, and invest in your long-term health and happiness. all without leaving home, which speaks to many of us, I assume.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Turn a corner of your backyard into your own personal sanctuary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is going to replace that glass pane in my bedroom, hopefully. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Uh, you know, that's interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It's hard to say that somebody would say that. I think it just becomes really obvious. There's people I know where I'm like, wow, your brother is really the favorite in the family. And it's like, I know. They'll buy him a car and a house and they're like, you need to get a job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I have to say, I'll just pause here and say the police were amazing. Not only was their response time amazing, but you know how, if you've ever had any dealings with the police, sometimes they treat you like you're the criminal, even though you're the one that called them. And you're like, no, no, no. Or they're treating you like you're stupid for calling or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday, I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, helping me give birth to our two cents worth, Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Honestly, it just sounds like a ramen place. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's right. I'll have the Kobayashi Maru. All right. Excellent choice, sir.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. There's the omakase and then there's the Kobayashi Maru.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
For special occasion. Look, I'm not a Star Trek guy, obviously, so I've never heard of it, but that's fitting, isn't it? Because this does sound like a no-win situation, and in a way, I guess these two families, they are designed to test her character, her emotional skills. So let's start by acknowledging just how difficult these parents must be.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They were physically and emotionally abusive, which is terrible. They apparently pick favorites among their children, which I can't really wrap my head around as a parent. I don't know if they do this overtly or subtly, but either way, that's, yeah, it's super hurtful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It does, yeah. It's sort of one of those things where parents probably think it's okay in the moment, and then it just turns out to be a really bad idea. She's the oldest. It sounds like she became a surrogate mother and or father to her siblings, and she felt a responsibility to protect them, which means she probably lost out on having a real childhood of her own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And that comes with its own unique trauma. And then years later, all her parents are going to say, this is what really pisses me off. They were limited. That's just... Yeah. comically understated? Yeah, seriously. Good effort, guys. Well, we were limited. What a euphemism that makes me want to punch somebody in the face. Maybe you want to dig into that a little bit more, Mom and Dad. Can you try?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And they were like, no, hide behind the car. They aim all these lights at the house and they're like, what is it? They fan out and they look around the outside of the house. And I know something happens because as soon as they get to the backyard, they radio. I don't hear what they say, but then I hear sirens immediately that are pretty close by.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Talk about not accepting a shred of responsibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Maybe they have no idea the damage they caused. Yeah. I'm honestly not sure which is worse, but either way, that makes all of this harder. But I'm happy to hear that you've worked through some of these issues over time, that you've created a life that's peaceful and happy. That's a massive accomplishment. I'm sure it took a lot of time and a lot of work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And honestly, that's the greatest victory you could have over a family like this. Being healthy, being fulfilled, having a successful marriage. So you've already won. But I'm also hearing that there's still this wound here, which, you know, of course there is. And it's getting activated whenever you visit your family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Which makes sense, and even more when you see your family being super nice to your husband. Honestly, that behavior is so odd. It makes me wonder if there's something big that we're just not getting here. Like, do they have some reason for treating your husband better? Is there some reason they prefer to go through him?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, she would have told us. Yeah, she would have said something, right? Unless she's trying to shape the narrative here. But given that everything her parents have done, I'm getting the sense that she's not the bad guy here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I can only assume that your family finds it easier to be nice to your husband because your relationships with them are fraught because they probably become strained over the years and they just, it's easier to interact with this new guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. I'm sure they each have their own traumas. The wounds always echo in every relationship in a family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right, so there's a lot going on in your family. Whereas your husband came into the picture long after that. He doesn't carry any of these old wounds, these patterns. So it might be easier for your family to be kind to him. And, you know, now that I think about it, being nice to him, maybe in some weird way, that's actually their way of being nice to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Because their relationship with you isn't the greatest or because you guys struggle to express yourselves, I wonder if they might be giving your husband that kindness and hoping it somehow transfers to you. That's a charitable interpretation of what's happening. I might be totally wrong, but it could be in the mix. And all that said, I don't think any of this is cool.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I completely understand why you find this hurtful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oof. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then six more cars roll up and I'm like, oh, they found someone or something. So more cops show up, they aim all the lights and they start going, come out of the house with your hands up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's nice. I'd be curious to see how they'd respond to that, if it would change anything. Maybe it would require something stronger. These siblings seem tough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right, so what can her husband really do about that? He might be able to change the surface behavior a little bit, but there's no guarantee that she won't still get injured.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
one seven five one and our street name you come out with your hands in the air obey all police commands at this point i'm like well the neighborhood sure as shit knows what's going on oh my god this is so intense it's intense it's like a grand theft auto mini you know side quest and i'm just like jeez and they're like stay behind the car stay behind the car because they're like you're just behind you're behind the car like continuing the we're behind a police car continuing to read the reddit
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But I can see why her anger is being directed at him, because he's now the proximate cause of her pain. She's saying, help me, stand up for me, and he's going, hmm, okay, maybe, let's see. Or maybe he's just straight up saying no.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But what you're saying is she might feel like he's hurting her or letting her down by not trying to rewrite her family dynamics, which, really, this pain is just her parents all over again, but located in him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. Go straight to the source. If these parents can even hear that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Wow, yeah, because that's a very different person saying those things. It's also a very different person learning to heal this wound if her siblings brush this off, which I hope that doesn't happen, but it might. And then what?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She might not be mad at her husband anymore, but she'll still have to make sense of this old pain, which, now that I think about it, is that another unconscious wish buried in this request to her husband? Is she... Maybe hoping that he'll stand up to her siblings, that all will be well, and then she won't have to be in touch with the pain at all?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It's just something to consider, maybe another contour to all this. All right, I just want to point out one other thing about this letter, which is the symmetry between these two families. Yeah, that is fascinating. Let's talk about that. He also comes from a broken home. He won't visit his family without her. He says they treat him better when she's around.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Obviously, I find it interesting they both come from difficult families and they both struggle in different ways with their parents. I'm sure that's part of their bond. They have that shared experience there. But that's also part of why she's angry, because she stands up for her husband and he's not doing the same thing for her. So that gives her more ammunition, so to speak.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But does that automatically mean that he should intervene in her family the way that she apparently does or is willing to do in his? Do these two families respond to messages like this in the same way? Maybe that is reasonable to expect, but also, maybe she's assuming that he'll have the exact same results when the dynamics are possibly totally different. It's just one last thing to consider.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I'm looking at Hawaiian Tropic winners from 1983 zooming in on their faces to see what the makeup from Beautiful Women in the 80s looked like. That's actually what I was looking at in my bed. So imagine how jarring this was, right? I'm like, oh, women from the 80s. This is interesting. They look so much more real. Boom, boom. Okay, someone's trying to break into the house while I'm home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Again, I'm very sorry that your family's treating you this way. It sucks. I hope you find a way to improve these dynamics if that's possible. And I also hope that you'll find the acceptance and courage to bear the grief of potentially discovering that you can't change the dynamics. Because that's possible too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And while I'm totally rooting for you, that might be the superpower that your family is here to teach you. Sending you and your husband a big hug and wishing you both the best. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
If you're hiding a dark family secret from your partner, a narcissistic, gun-loving fascist that's hijacked your friend group, or you're locked in a never-ending custody battle with your psychotic ex, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh, by the way, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, it's a bite-sized gem. Every Wednesday, two-minute read, very practical. It's a great companion to the show. Come check it out, jordanharbinger.com slash news. All right, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, interesting question. So first of all, I can see why this big decision is bringing up all these big questions and probably some intense feelings, anxiety, fear, sadness, a lot of unknowns here. Unknowns are stressful and they're confusing. I know this can be overwhelming, especially because you have so little control here. In a way, you do have a big choice to make.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So... So the more police come and then they're like, go, can you go somewhere else? Cause it's cold. I'm in my underwear by the way. And my kids are in their pajamas with no shoes on. So we go in my brother-in-law's house who happens to be right next door. And they're like, we'll call you on your phone when we need you and when it's safe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Make the move to the new city or stay put. Although it sounds like in a way you've already made that choice. You want to stay. The real choice is how long to stay put. Do you leave now? Do you leave in a year or two? And you have some good reasons either way. Basically, the variables are money, morale, motivation, and job prospects in a year, 18 months, two years. Okay, fine. But here's the thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You can't predict the future. You don't have control over most of this. And most importantly, you're trying to game out scenarios without having access to all the information. What the economy is going to be like down the road, how your company is going to operate with fewer employees, how future you is going to feel in that new environment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You're trying to make a perfect decision amid a ton of uncertainty, which is impossible. So you're not wrong to be asking these questions. They're good questions. I'm just not sure that they're going to lead you to very helpful answers. So my take is this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Rather than try to make this decision perfectly now, I would start proactively working on all the things you'd want to have in place when you do make this decision. I'm talking about the nuts and bolts. Your relationships, warming up your connections, making new ones, getting a sense of what jobs are out there right now, putting feelers out, creating a good tribe for yourself, all of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Your skills, your knowledge, your talent, getting clear on what you have to offer, filling in any gaps in your experience, learning how to tell that story, continuing to perform well at your job, paying attention to the signals that are telling you to either stay or leave, reading the tea leaves, and generally just creating as many opportunities as possible for yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Because having a job offer in hand, that's concrete. That's real. Then you'd be in a position to go, do I take this offer now or do I stick it out another six months and get my severance? Or do I somehow push this offer by six months so I can enjoy both? Whatever that looks like.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But trying to game out a hypothetical decision in a hypothetical future, that's only going to send you around and around in circles. And It's mostly pointless because there really isn't a decision to make. So the best advice I can give you is don't torture yourself with confusion. Don't drive yourself crazy with speculation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You need to channel that energy into investing in yourself, creating concrete opportunities for yourself. That's ultimately all that matters. And that's actually all you can control. And I promise, if you do that, the right decision will become obvious to you. You won't have to think about it so much. Whereas you can debate forever about something that doesn't really even exist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, 80 or 90%, which is bananas. This is them trying to figure out how to just take down the entire company. I don't really understand what they're doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So we look at our cameras because we've got crazy, you know, we have multiple camera systems and multiple security systems. So we look at all the camera footage and we see like nine cops go through my whole house with their guns drawn and they're serious. They're like, Check the hallway. Check the closet. If anyone's in here, now is the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I don't get it. This is going to be one of those things where they find out later, like private equity actually acquired the company and they were going to fire everyone. And this is just an easier, cheaper way to not do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And good point, by the way, because like why torture yourself with sentimentality? Why worry about how you're going to stay motivated when your company is really just trying to get rid of everyone in clean house? That energy might be misplaced. I get it. All change hurts. But on that note, I would encourage you to become as friendly as possible with uncertainty.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You strike me as a guy who likes to plan, who likes to control, who likes to know. I'm the same way, so I get it. But the older I get, the more I realize what a fool's errand that actually is. It's a little terrifying to accept, but we're in control of so little in life. And it's important to know when to control and when to just allow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But that's why it's so important to focus on the handful of things that you do control. Your body, your mind, your story, your relationships. And you have to do that not knowing exactly where they're going to take you and how those dots are going to connect up. But they always do. Trust that taking care of those things will take care of you. And I know you'll be great. Good luck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And now, some exhilarating deals that won't blow up your entire life. We'll be right back. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
If you've got kids, it's also schools, nearby parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in-depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in-depth information, I'm talking deep.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student-teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place, homes.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Raise your hands in the air and signal to us where you are. I mean, it's pretty, like, they are like someone is probably or possibly in the house. Yeah, they're not like, oh, yeah, rock at the window. So they clear the whole house. And then they're like, do you have cameras? We see cameras. Can we look at the footage?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
We've done your homework. If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Our AI chatbot can surface codes for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And if that doesn't work, you can always email me, jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Happy to dig up codes for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
No, no, no. Everything I've been watching recently has been about how to shoot targets in the dark.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. I'm watching like dudes with beards and tattoos talk about how to clear your house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So we look at the footage, and there's nothing at all at the time that the window broke. And we're just mystified. And they're like, well, okay. Maybe this window's defective and the wind blew it in. And the other cop's like, I don't think so. This didn't even break in the middle, which is where it would break most likely if the wind. So they're like kicking the glass.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then after that, she said, motherfucking cocksucker, fuck her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Riveting I really deeply feel for somebody who has to deal with something like that like what you can't go to the mall and eat tacos with your friends because You might do something and then parents are calling security because you're doing this around their kids You're just like I have a disability. I can't help it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It's yeah, it's terrible Imagine dating like I've got Tourette's and someone's like oh I have you know, whatever I've got a like a prosthetic leg and you go show up and you're like, okay I can't be around this person. Are you kidding? We're gonna get arrested
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And you can talk about it in our subreddit over at the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. A lot of interesting conversations happening over there. If you're a Reddit user, we talk about episodes. We talk about random stuff that's recommended in the episodes. Go find it on Reddit. If you're a Redditor, it's the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
There's a huge pile of shattered glass in my house. They're like, there would be a rock in here somewhere. They're like, you didn't find anything. You didn't move anything. I'm like, no, I ran out after charging towards the window to scare whoever it was away. I ran left and barricaded the door. And they're like, huh. Could it be an animal?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So I've been waiting for this for anybody who didn't catch that episode real quick. This is the guy that was I think it was in his 40s married to a woman, but they've been living separate lives for a while. And one day he gets some flirty messages from a pretty woman online. He does a reverse image search of her photo and he discovers that it actually belongs to a different woman entirely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then he tracks down that woman, and she tells him that her ex-boyfriend used her pictures for this kind of thing in the past. And then he finds out that her ex-boyfriend, he realizes it's his, uh... wife's cousin's boyfriend. Right. Who he sees at family gatherings and stuff like that. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And he's trying to figure out like, okay, is this guy trying to blackmail me? Is he trying to give my wife ammunition for a divorce or is he enjoying this? Is he flirting with me? Does he want to hook up? Like what's going on here?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. And our response was basically like, this is very bizarre, very confusing. Okay. It's kind of fun, but you got to be careful here because this could easily blow up in your face. More likely than not. Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh, for God's sake. What good was our advice then? Ah, man. Gabe, is this dude just trolling us?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Don't get me wrong, I am stupidly excited to hear what's about to happen, so maybe part of this is our fault, but alright, continue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Okay. So the plan is blame it on the alcohol.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from undercover agents, gold smugglers, money laundering experts, astronauts, and tech moguls to
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And they're like, how would an animal get over this fence, though? Were your gates open at all? Did a big animal run in here? They're like, well, there's no fur, there's no blood. And then one of the officers, she goes, why don't we just back up the tape a little bit more in case we have the timing wrong?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh, so he was doing this to other people too, or just to our friend here and that's what she actually caught him doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh man, this poor woman. She can't get away from this relationship. Like I broke up with him three years ago. Stop calling me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, this guy's officially scaring me a little bit. So he was trying to tempt other men he knows personally to see if they're faithful because he considers himself a vigilante. There's something wrong with this guy, and I don't fully buy that story either.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So I think this answers our friend here's question from his first letter about what this guy's up to. If what the catfisher said is true, which I suppose that's still an if, but if that's true, then he is trying to bust our friend here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And sure enough, what we find is one of our security outdoor systems, which is like a totally separate hardwired thing, it's 11 minutes off the timer. The internal clock is 11 minutes off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. You don't want to do a service to women and be of some sort of weird Instagram vigilante for no reason. It's also possible that he is getting off sexually on these messages, and that's harder to admit. Or it's a little bit of both. But the fact that he admitted to this game he's playing, I don't know. He just seems like a total weirdo.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Best case scenario, he's in the closet and this is his way of safely flirting with men. Worst case scenario, he's a manipulative creep who's, you know, just got one out for him. This just makes no sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh, God. This guy is the definition of doing it for the plot. I'm not even mad about it. Damn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
We go back another 20 minutes and sure enough, what we find are three dudes who have clearly been to my house before because I have tricky gate latches that are like in weird places and they just without looking almost just do it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, you're not wrong. I still can't say I support this, but go off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh yeah, we got it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Oh man. Well, that postscript really speaks volumes, doesn't it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I mean, the guy's hiding. He's stuck between two identities. I think we talked about that in the original segment. He isn't ready to own who he is, take some steps towards openly pursuing it. I'll refrain from rehashing that point, but honestly, it makes me, yeah, a little bit sad. And I'm afraid that it's making him vulnerable to an unknown quantity like this catfisher.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So look, I'm over here eating my popcorn like everybody else listening right now. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. The predicament you're in is objectively entertaining. But I can't say that I share your view that this is a pretty great outcome. Not to beat a dead horse, but this guy, he's weird and squirrely and manipulative. And it's just not somebody I would want to get close to at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I understand that he represents something meaningful to you. I get that he's allowing you to explore your sexuality in a way that feels safe right now. But I just don't know if continuing to engage with this guy or pushing things further is a wise decision. Yes, the risk to you is lower now. I guess you're right there. But in another way, it's higher because now you know a lot more about this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They walk in, they go through both gates, they duck under this other floodlight, which turns on, but they just didn't care because they were already inside one of our gates. And they go around my house, around towards where my hot tub is, around my gym. And they try to break through these big sliding windows that I have in the back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You know he has a pattern of doing this kind of thing. You know he has a history of lying, going MIA, maintaining a secret life, compromising people he's involved with. There's a world where he's doing this for creepy and nefarious reasons, to entrap you into cheating, to possibly tell your wife what you're up to, even if he is also enjoying flirting with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So my question for you is, why do you still want to get involved with this guy? How is it worth it? Because he has nice biceps or whatever? Come on, man. I think you can tell how I feel about all this, but you got to answer these questions for yourself. Look, it's not that I don't understand your reasons for wanting to explore this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
In the last segment, we talked about how that's really the most important thing to come out of this whole experience, what it's showing you about yourself. I'm not judging your orientation or the thrill that you feel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm just really encouraging you to get more curious about where you are in your journey, how you're owning these parts of yourself, how you're managing your life overall, to get more curious about all that than you are about whether this particular dude should be your lover or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, me too. Look, I commend him for knowing that about himself. I'm glad he thought that that was worth sharing with us, but he needs to take a much closer look at that quality. Because again, it might be making him very vulnerable here, or at least about to stumble into an embarrassing misunderstanding. That said, if you guys do meet up, you have to send us another update, obviously.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It's Feedback Friday. We're not about to miss a killer dues cruise. But please be safe, be discerning, keep your guard up, think ahead, keep looking inward. There's still so much more for you to know about yourself and the hidden costs of this double life that you're leading. Don't forget to check out our episodes with Scott Payne, the FBI agent who infiltrated a criminal biker gang.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
and our Skeptical Sunday on homeschooling. If you haven't heard those yet, now's a great time to get them started. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself. The course is free.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
6minutenetworking.com is where you can find it over on the Thinkific platform. Their drills, their exercises, you can plow through the course. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. It works whether you're young or old, employed or retired or a student. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Build those relationships before you need them. You can find them all at 6minutenetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But we have a screen that went down that they couldn't lift up without making a bunch of noise. What's really scary is they hide behind this box of toys that we have. And another guy hides behind the wall. And then one dude uses a glass breaker on my window and then donkey kicks it in. That's what I heard. The glass breaker that went thump. And then him donkey kicking the window.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show about some of the most controversial and misunderstood topics in sexuality, including what makes people gay and the differences between gay men and gay women.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
To hear more on the latest in sex research with leading clinical psychologist and sexologist Dr. James Cantor, check out episode 815 on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then these guys go to charge in my house to try to get the jump on us. But lo and behold, Psycho Jordan was right there going. And you can see them freeze like children and then bolt like they were not expecting anyone to be home or they were. And they just thought, oh, we're going to get the jump on this dude. Oh. And I happened to be right there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And I happen to have an immediately and very aggressive reaction. And they were like, OK, bye. Thank God. So they ran back out. Thank God. Yeah. So they ran out the way they came.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
This week we had Scott Payne, an FBI agent who infiltrated a biker gang as well as some other crazy, crazy, just actually insane people gangs that you would never want to be a part of if you were searching for a gang to be a part of. I don't know. It takes all kinds, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So we can see them on the cameras. Looking in our windows to see if people are home or if lights are on but these geniuses again Who have cased our house failed to realize that they were looking at blackout curtains? So they probably thought oh, it's pitch-black in there not realizing I'm looking at a curtain genius how you were out of town or yeah?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So they probably saw our nanny pull out at a certain time And then we're like no one's home because I keep my car in the garage because I'm not an idiot You know why would I park my car there got it? So they saw some of our help come and go and And they probably were like, OK, this is what time they leave every night or whatever. And they don't come back till the next day. So disturbing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It's super disturbing. Yeah. So the cops, it was funny because I felt kind of bad. I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, like we didn't have much of a plan. You know, my Jen, she did a good enough job, but also she's like running around the hall holding a baby. And I'm like, you need to lock yourself in the bathroom, not be running around in the living room in circles, you know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And to her credit, it's like, well, what else are you supposed to do? You're supposed to take care of the kids. She didn't know whether to run out the front door or stay in the house like I was telling her to do. And the answer is you stay in the house and barricade yourself in because if they're looking for you, they can just walk around your house and go find you standing in your front lawn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So that's no good. And she's like, I don't want to be trapped, though. So we have to kind of go through this whole thing. We're going to hire a security consultant and strengthen some of our doorways and stuff like that, because basically, once you're in the house, it's like you've got to kick through some crappy plywood painted doors to get into any other part of the house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And that's not going to be good if my kids and wife are in the bedroom or if like we end up in the guest room or something like we need some place where we can go. That's not just like a shoulder check away from the rest of the house. I was kind of bummed about how it all panned out. The cops missed them by like 30 seconds, too, by the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They ran to our neighbor's house and then you can see them running back because they were like, oh, crap, the cops are coming this way and we're in the corner. So they just made it out. They just made it out. These guys like the cops are like this was planned, but these guys were not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I was really disappointed in my glass until I realized they use a glass breaker because this is triple pain tempered glass. And it really looks like this 140 pound skinny piece of shit just kicks it with his foot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
his ghetto air force ones or whatever and but he used a glass breaker and as much as they had watched our house these guys were hardly professional i mean it looks like they play call of duty and they're like we're gonna charge in there the way they reacted when i was like hey i'll kill you they i mean these are like kids who got busted with their hand in the cookie jar these were not like we've got an exfil plan i mean they ran the wrong way towards the road and then ran back because the cops were coming it's like you guys are not
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
We also had a Skeptical Sunday on homeschooling, which many of you hated, and I can't say I totally disagree with why, and many of you loved. And it's really interesting because many of the people who hated it were educators, and many of the people who loved it were educators. So go back and listen to those two if you haven't done so yet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Not top-tier talent. No, I mean, they're not sending their best, right? So it's like these guys were dumbasses. And the other thing that was funny was you can see on the camera where they walk because they're wearing these running shoes that have these reflective strips on them. And I'm like, you guys don't realize that you're actually extra visible at night?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
If you try to hide from the cops with these shoes on, you are visible from a block away with these bright-ass running shoes on, you morons.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They found a nice house and they're like, we can rob this house and let's go check the gates or whatever. But these guys are not like stealing the Maltese Falcon or whatever. These guys are just dumb pricks that ordered some crap off of Amazon that breaks glass really.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
For me, no, because I'm mostly just angry. I've got a board over the window of where I am, but I call it my friend is love him or hate him. My friend is Elon Musk's head of security. And I was like, what do I need to do? And he's like, here's what we have. And he sent me some links to some pretty cool stuff like glass that's bulletproof that are like coatings you can put over existing windows.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's you can basically take a sledgehammer to it and the glass will shatter, but it won't break. You have a real hell of a time getting in. Of course, the problem is what happens if there's a fire and we need the firemen to get in? They now need to run the engine through the front door because they can't break the glass. Pick your poison, I guess. Yeah, it's pick your poison.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So there's some issues there that we've got to figure out. I've got to call the fire department. They might be like, oh yeah, no, we jam a crowbar in there and we like rip it out and it's no problem. Don't worry. But I need to make sure because it's far more likely that we have some situation like that than we have the Purge 2.0 come to our house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It's happening more, the cops said, but also they said your house stands out in your neighborhood. So we bought a house in a nice, normal neighborhood and we tore it down because it was like a teardown. And we built another house there. There's a few nice houses. It's our house, my brother-in-law's house, the architect who designed our houses lives next door to both of us.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then there's two other nice houses on the street and everything else is from like 1950. They're normal houses. They're not gross. But it's like, oh, here's a two-story house that has a brand new whatever and a Tesla in the driveway. And the other houses are, you know, one-story ranches that have a, they look normal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and marvel at the crazy-ish that life can throw our way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So if you're going to rob a house on that street, it's going to be ours because we got too much glass or my neighbors. So, of course, my neighbors are like, oh, crap, we are all in this area.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, they are. They're taking notes. And it's good because the cops said they probably won't hit our house again, the same crew, because now they realize that they can't tell when we're home. And since I didn't hurt any of them, they have no reason to have like some sort of beef with me personally. That's comforting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
This is what actually really pisses me off. I don't mind replacing the glass. I don't mind that I have to do security upgrades. I slept like a rock the next night, so it's obviously not really affecting me. My ordering sleep scores have been through the roof because I'm sleeping like a baby.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They should break in at least once a month and reset my sleep score. Get your eight and a half hours out of it. That's right. The thing that really pisses me off is my daughter, who's three, keeps saying, why are there bad guys? Where are the bad guys? Are the bad guys still hiding? Are they in our house? So I'm really pissed off that these guys scared my daughter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And I've been conflicted because, of course, for me, I'm like, I really wish I'd smoked one or two of them and just let them bleed out of my lawn. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
No, that would have been, that would have been really scary because it triggers my anxiety. And this would have been like proof that it's all in your head, Jordan. Oh no. Someone's actually trying to break into your house. No, that would have been a terrible, what a nightmare. 16 cops in my house. And I'm like, no, I'm just really tired guys. I'm just really tired.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I always have eyes that look like this. It's totally normal. yeah so that pisses me off because my kids are scared but as my friend pointed out because I was like I really I should have gotten my strap and just lit the window up and I would have hit at least the guy that kicked in the window and came through oh my god that's so intense but as my friend pointed out
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So that's the sense that I'm getting. I mean, look, I'll delete this episode if she becomes the next Taylor Swift.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Exactly. I need front row tickets for the whole family at Madison Square Garden. Something to top Disneyland. No oily packages on the way in, though. No oily packages allowed. Seriously, though, I don't think he'd be writing in if she were like, man, it would be so cool if I went to medical school and made an impact on people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
This is a great special.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Or, hey, sometimes in the shower I pretend I'm Olivia Rodrigo and I'm singing at a stadium full of people. And then she went about her day and focused on normal, achievable goals and career stuff. He's writing in because he finds all of this a little alarming, probably, because not only is she nursing these extreme fantasies, she's not actually taking any steps toward making them a reality.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's as funny as the other crap that's been on Netflix lately. All right. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I do, too. This is a really tough place to be as a partner, because if he's, honey, your dreams are a little nuts and I think you need to be realistic, he risks coming across as cruel and unsupportive, recapitulating her whole childhood, and maybe sending her further into her depression, not letting her have this nice out. But then if he plays along, he's colluding with her delusion. Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Colulu with the delulu. Yeah, Cthulhu with the Delulu, exactly. Man, speaking of catchy, Cthulhu with the Delulu. That is way too fun to say. I'm going to have to try and shake that by the weekend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We're gonna yeah as long as it's a hundred and fifteen degrees or whatever it was that time I'm still trying to rehydrate my body from the hot eight yoga four months ago Look, I honestly don't know how you're supposed to support your wife's dreams if this is the relationship that she has with them and
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
There is a difference between a dream and a delusion, between an aspiration and a fantasy, and any goal, whether it's super attainable or crazy ambitious, the rubber has to meet the road at some point. Like you said, journey over destination. So if she just wants to fantasize, which she's allowed to do, and actually, fantasy isn't all bad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It does play an important role for us and maybe an extra important role for her. I mean, I fantasize regularly, mostly about getting a full night of uninterrupted sleep. Good luck with that, by the way. Not going to happen. Exactly. Not anytime soon.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If all she wants to do is fantasize, I am just not sure what you would even be supporting other than her vivid imagination and possibly, and I hate saying this because it feels mean, a shaky grasp on reality.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Tipflation, that's what it's called. Where it just keeps going up, but their wages stay constant, so we're just subsidizing everything. Just put it in the price of the food. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. From mafia enforcers and arms dealers, rocket scientists, four-star generals, Hollywood filmmakers. This week on the show, we had Russ Swain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I like that because he's not saying, grow up and be realistic, Linda. You're never going to be a doctor. He's saying, I'm here for you. And there's a bit of a gap here. And can you help me understand what you're looking for from me?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Which is totally fair, but I still think this is going to be a tough conversation for him, because like he said, when he probes too much, she just shuts down.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Exactly. He needs to go out of his way to make her understand that's not what he's saying so she can take in what he's actually saying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That's where I end up falling with all this, too, because if he doesn't say anything, then he's agreeing to live part time in fantasy land to keep Colulu with the Delulu. And that's not just not helping her. It's also kind of harming him. And like I said, that would be just as true for a partner who isn't disabled. That kind of has nothing to do with her disability.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
He was a good little Mormon boy art student. who became a masterful counterfeiter of U.S. currency. We also had a skeptical Sunday on sextortion, those scams where people try to tell you that they have pictures of you doing something naughty. It's happened to me. It's happened to a lot of people with disastrous results, unfortunately, in some cases, especially among teens.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Right, which is why I really feel for him and for both of them. And look, if all of this feels too daunting, maybe you can encourage your wife to talk to her therapist about these big dreams of hers. Maybe you can ask what they make of them, whether they're helping her turn them into action, and if not, why?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Because ultimately, I think therapy is where she's gonna have to work through a lot of this stuff anyway, including whatever your conversation with her brings up. So that's the real conversation that you guys need to have. And once you guys move through that stage, if your wife is willing to go there with you, then you can talk about the one or two goals to focus on and start getting practical.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We are rooting, of course, for both of you. Good luck. And now I want you to Kalulu in our DeLulu by checking out the totally unhinged deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thanks for watching. That's one reason why I use delete me. They do all the heavy lifting, removing your info from hundreds of data broker websites.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Most importantly, keeping it off because these sites love to bring your data back. Plus delete me sends regular reports. It's quite satisfying to look at how much of your info has been scrubbed and taken down. I don't have time to track this stuff myself. Who does? So I leave it to the pros over at delete me. So if you care about your privacy, check out delete me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Audible. Okay, let's talk about the new year. You're probably thinking about resolutions like maybe hitting the gym, you're gonna eat better, maybe you're gonna finally organize that junk drawer that could double as a time capsule from the 90s. But here's an easier one. Let Audible expand your life just by listening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
A little bit like this podcast, but seriously, Audible makes self-improvement feel doable. They've got over a million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals. This show is available in the app. If you want to get fit without actually leaving your couch, there's advice for that. If you need relationship tips that don't involve arguing over the thermostat, okay, they got you covered.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If you're thinking about making a career move or tackling your finances, they've got listens for that too. And the best part is you can learn and grow while doing stuff you already do. Commuting, working out, folding laundry like an absolute champion. Suddenly, you're crushing your goals and you didn't even break a sweat unless you listen to audiobooks while you're working out, then sweat away.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Start your 30-day trial at audible.com slash JHS. It's like a personal trainer for your brain without needing to break a sweat. Thank you so much for listening and supporting our amazing sponsors, all of the deals and discounts and ways to support the podcast. Searchable and clickable over on the website, jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Definitely a PSA and very important episode as well. Go ahead and listen to those if you haven't had a chance to do so yet. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, and share random stories from our lives. Speaking of which, Gabe, Jen and I took the kids to Disneyland. The other week. Yes, you guys had a good time, huh, man? First of all Pete capitalism. Holy moly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Now back to Feedback Friday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Ugh, how dare these people. I might leave and be mad at your wedding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You have to be Zen with Just knowing you are going to get bent over It's over when you walk in there and I was like Let's just get a quick lunch on the first day and I ordered a burger and it wasn't that good and the fries were cold and the kids had chicken tenders and the bill was like $200 dude because the burger was 40 bucks, dude. And I was like, 40 bucks? They're like, it's a Wagyu burger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, tell him he got into medical school. Problem solved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Exactly. Man, this story, it bums me out. Actually, it pisses me off if I'm going to put a fine point on the emotion that I'm feeling. This is not your problem, my man. This is between your cousin and the family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Not that they can ultimately dictate who she sees, like you said, that's up to her, but if they have a problem with him, and look, maybe there are some legit reasons for that, I don't know, whatever, they can talk to her about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
The fact that they are putting you and your fiance in the middle of all of their personal crap, the fact that they are using your wedding as an opportunity to lean on her to break up with this guy or exclude him from a family event, that is, so not cool, it's so inappropriate, it's wildly inappropriate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And all of this stuff about being mad the whole time, the wedding being awkward, leaving early, this is all on them. They are choosing to have that response on arguably the most important day of your life, and choosing to make it your problem so that you will do what they want. This is so insane to me, man. They are entitled to have whatever feelings they have,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But that does not mean that they need or should feel the permission to express them on a day that is not about them. They are adults. It is time to start acting as such. So yeah, as you can tell, I do not think this is okay. I know you know that, but I am just confirming that all of your suspicions about them being children and ridiculous are 100% correct.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So your decision to pull back and draw boundaries is exactly the right one. My advice to you is to stand by that decision and respectfully tell your family, listen guys, we hear you loud and clear, you don't like Radhika's boyfriend. You're allowed to feel however you feel about him, but she's my cousin. She and Mike have been together for two years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We're giving her a plus one, just like everyone else. If that doesn't sit well with you, we understand that, but that's between you and Radhika. And we ask that you not push us to disinvite him anymore because it's causing a lot of stress around our special day. And by the way, we have a lot of other crap we gotta do. I've got to pick 17,000 different decorations and food items.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
This is not high on my list of priorities. Now, you can leave that part out, but we all know that's how you feel. Our hope is that you can put this aside and remember what this day is really about, my fiance and me. Not one guest that you don't like. You coming and enjoying yourselves and not letting him ruin the whole day would be the best gift you could give us. That and $500, at least.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That's how I'd do it, and if they continue to make this your problem, they're really gonna look like even bigger a-holes than they do already, but they might not know that, and they might not care. Look, this is probably a little daunting, especially in a family like this. Clearly there's some sort of unspoken rule where this is somewhat okay, because otherwise they wouldn't have done it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's awkward, it's scary, it means bearing the discomfort of some people in your family being angry with you for not doing what they want. potentially the discomfort of them not having a good time at your wedding, leaving early, or maybe not coming at all. Although, candidly, I always think this is such a BS bluff. I really think it's unlikely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I think they are blustering and they're stomping their feet like my three-year-old daughter when she doesn't get what she wants because they see an opportunity to work on your cousin, and on the day, they're probably just gonna suck it up because that's what decent people do. And that's my strong hunch. I think it's all going to be just gone the day of.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
There's going to be a couple stinky looks and that's it. But you have to be willing to tolerate those feelings in order to protect yourselves and your day here. I hate that they are putting you in this position. It really makes me angry. You do not deserve it. Your fiance doesn't either. But since this is what's happening, you guys just have to have a hard conversation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm like, this is worse than any ground chuck crap I've ever had. Thanks for the pickles or whatever that I'm sure are gourmet, but this is legit like something that was under a heat lamp for an hour.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
you're putting us in the middle of a problem that is not ours and you guys need to figure this out and decide what to do with your feelings on your own yeah powerful message and it might be a really important first step as they build their lives together agreed so that's how we'd handle this part of this decision means making peace with the fact that you can't make everyone happy here and you can't control everyone's experience which is also an important part of the script that you're rewriting here so when you say how can we mentally prepare for this
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I would say mentally prepare to compartmentalize this drama so that you can enjoy your day and get clear with yourself about what's yours and what's not yours. If Nani and Dottie have their knickers in a twist because Mike doesn't have an MBA or whatever, fine. Those are their knickers. They are not yours. You guys need to be very clear about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And that's not so much turning a blind eye to this BS as saying, I see that my grandparents are missing our wedding because they want to be right. And that's really sad. Now let me get back to Poppin' and Lockin' to Paper Planes by M.I.A. because that's in every Indian wedding. And just enjoy your night because you only get to do your wedding once. That part is your responsibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Also, that song is such a banger. It is a banger. You gotta enjoy it. Yeah, with the gunshot. shot sample and everything. Yeah, I mean, it glorifies street violence. Whatever, we take what we can get. I'm sorry you have to deal with all this. I'm also kind of excited for you to set a new tone here. Congrats on getting married. Have a blast at the wedding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And make sure Mike gets an extra serving of biryani. He's going to be feeling the heat that night. And hey, if all else fails, invite me to the wedding. I love chicken tikka masala. I'll wear a Mike Tyson face tattoo and act like Jake Paul at the buffet. That'll pull all the attention away from Radhika's boyfriend. Just make Jordan the bad guy. I'll give you a good rate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
For me, it's offensive when one, somebody asked me for a tip and I basically walked up to a counter and they took my order and that was it. That's no. Common gripe in today's society. Yeah. Perhaps less common gripe. There's a couple restaurants around here that shall remain nameless unless they pay for the sponsorship on this show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Basically, you let me ride the elephant. We call it even. I know what I'm getting for lunch after this, Gabriel. I've got a crankering now for some of that good chicken tikka masala. You know what? The comical part of this is they probably think they're being really chill dictating what kind of wedding he wants because they're like, hey, we let him pick the bride. What more does he want?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We didn't even try to pick his wife for him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That's right. That's right. We just get to pick where you live, how many children you have, what kind of wedding you have. We're totally laid back parents. Come on. Ah, man. You can reach us Friday at JordanHarbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If you're trying to track down an isolated relative, your parents are living next to a psychotic person, or you're debating whether to bring your future kids around your unstable, homicidal uncle, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at JordanHarbinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
anonymous and by the way our newsletter is a huge hit with you guys it's i really love the feedback we get from this it's called we bit wiser it's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered to your inbox most wednesdays so if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life i invite you to come check it out you can sign up at jordanharbinger.com news all right what's next hey gabe and jordan i'm 24 my wife is 25 and we got married when we were 18.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You do, there was places where you can buy pins, which by the way are like 16 bucks, just little pins, and you can trade them and it's a whole thing, and there were these wristbands that looked like watches, and I was like, what are these? And they go, oh, if you have a lightning lane pass, you can buy one of these and you can hold it up instead of scanning your phone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Wait, I'm confused. We realized I was in a lot of debt, so he didn't know he was in debt? Is that possible?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, so I've run a couple of businesses, nothing major as you all know, but you got to know things aren't good and that you're spending more money than you have. You'd have to be completely asleep at the wheel and actively not checking your bank account or whatever to not know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And unless it's a big business where there's an accounting department and they're just not telling you something, that doesn't make any sense to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Which means when she said, okay, I'll move back in, but on one condition, you never lie to me again, you lied to her, you didn't own up to the full truth. I don't mean to pounce and nitpick here, folks, but his whole letter is about not being honest with his spouse. I hear this detail and I go, okay, sounds like a pattern of deception.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yes, I think that's what he means. Because earlier he said double life. Does that mean he's just watching porn? That's the big secret? Or is he having affairs too? Fair question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh boy, okay. First of all, I want to thank you for sharing so much with us. I'm sure this is not easy to talk about. I can hear that it's causing you a lot of sadness, a lot of distress, and I appreciate your vulnerability.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I also appreciate that you understand that this addiction has become a problem in your marriage, or maybe it was more the deception around it, and you want to get better from the sound of it. I can also appreciate your wife's perspective to some degree here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Look, I personally don't think it's fair to divorce your spouse for having a couple dates with Miss Michigan every now and then if you catch my drift. Wait, what? Miss Michigan? What is that? Drift not caught, I assume? I do not catch your drift.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Growing up in Michigan, when you tell people where you live, you hold up your hand and you point to a place on the hand for the lower peninsula where you live. Okay. And so, if you have a date with Miss Michigan, do I need to fill in the rest of the blanks or are we getting there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So people pay $40 for a Star Wars theme, Mickey Mouse theme, whatever it is, band to ride the rides faster. But they've already paid for the front of the line, the lightning box. Correct. It doesn't include anything other than a way to scan onto the ride.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That is a local ref.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I'm hanging out with Miss Michigan tonight, or just me and Miss Michigan. That's what we used to say. And it was obvious because we were in high school and nobody was actually getting laid, so...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh, God. It's more of an Oman shape. It's custom. So part of me is like, is it really fair to get divorced based on this? But obviously, look, everyone has different values around this stuff. Obviously, our values are to make fun of it incessantly when we do it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Also, once it becomes an addiction, which you said it is, okay, when it's a compulsive thing, that is a problem no matter what your values are around watching a little bit of porn. Where I really identify with her is she's been married to a guy who hid what seems to be a very significant part of his life from her Two significant parts, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
The porn consumption and the business debt problem, which in my opinion is much more serious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Also, the job he wanted was taking a while to get back to him, so he went back to the business, which fine, maybe that made some sense because the money was already spent or whatever, but if you desperately need to find employment to climb out of this debt, going back to the company that's compromising you guys without trying to fix the underlying issue, which it doesn't sound like you did, instead of interviewing for other jobs to keep you afloat, I wonder if that was a little questionable too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If you're really dying for cash, go work at Target for a month or two. I don't know how easy it is to even get those jobs now, so maybe I'm off on this, but go cut lawns or something for a little while, just to fill in the gap. DoorDash, man, Uber.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
She also took a chance on coming back to you after three months, and then she learned that not only are you still struggling with the porn consumption, although I really do appreciate that you told her about it each time, you deserve some credit for that, that must have been incredibly awkward, but there's this whole debt thing that she didn't know about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So your wife has some legitimate reasons to feel angry here, And I can't say that I blame her for not being able to fully trust you. So here's my honest reaction to all this. I hear you that you're sorry about hiding this stuff from your wife, and I believe that. And I hear you that you wanna change, and I believe that too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But the reality is, and I'm just gonna be very direct with you, and I say this with love, those are just words. They are just ideas. Saying you're sorry, it does count for something. It's important. Saying you wanna change, that's obviously where change begins. But what are you doing about any of this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Are you going to Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous or another support group like that and talking about the porn addiction? Are you going to therapy and talking about why it's hard for you to be consistently honest about stuff that's uncomfortable? Are you digging into your company's books and figuring out why it's struggling, what you need to do to right the ship?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Are you really taking care of you and your wife financially while you climb out of this hole? That's some crucial work that you gotta do here, not just for your wife, but for yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And I'm just not hearing anything in your letter that suggests you're actively taking steps to understand yourself better, make healthier choices, and show her, not through your words, not through your aspirations, but through your actions, your process, that you are on the path to becoming a better person and a more trustworthy partner.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Until you do that, I'm not sure that getting your wife back is really going to even fix anything. And honestly, if she were writing in, I'd probably say, yeah, don't go back to him right now. He has some work to do. Let him do that work. Watch how he does. Then see what's what. So I'm definitely not recommending that you just give up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But I do think that you need to get clear on what your priorities are, what a productive path forward actually looks like. What I'm hearing is that you are so focused on getting your wife back that you are essentially overlooking the very problems that led her to leave in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
He thinks that he has a wife leaving problem, but he actually has a can't stop watching porn problem. And I can't tell my wife certain things problem. And my business is kind of a mess problem. His marriage is just one symptom of these deeper themes. And probably other ones too, including, to be fair, some of his wife's things, but that's tangential to the main issue here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yes. And apparently, and I don't know this as fact, apparently, maybe sometimes they vibrate when you go on certain rides. That's it. Or they light up or something. But... That's an example of just holy smokes, people actually pay for this. And you'll go and you'll see a guy with a little plastic droid from Star Wars in his backpack and you're like, oh that's cute, I wonder what's in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So this is the stuff you need to be working on, man. Otherwise, what do you think's gonna happen if you and your wife get back together? How is this magically gonna resolve? It's not. It's only gonna get better when you get better. But part of making this shift is realizing that you might have to let your wife go. It sounds like that's where this is heading anyways. I know that's very painful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
There's a lot of grief in this process, but hey, ultimately that's healthy grief because what your wife has done by leaving It's really that she's forced you to confront some very profound stuff. And if you lean into it, if you do this work, you are going to grow massively. And then, in a way, she'll have done you a great service. So start taking care of yourself, man. We're rooting for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Good luck. And now, you can spank it to the pornographically great deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
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If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment, support our sponsors. All of the deals discount codes that you hear on the show are at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Our AI chat bot can also surface codes over on the website jordanharbinger.com slash AI.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And if that thing fails, you can always email us. I'd love to dig up these codes for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And I went to the Star Wars place and I go, oh no, they just sell these and the backpack is like $100 and the build your own droid is God knows how much out of plastic parts and then you just take that thing home and put it on a shelf And you can build your own lightsaber.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the gratuity included notice at the bottom of the bill you're given after dining at this auditory smorgasbord of life advice, Gabriel Mizrahi. 25%, I hope. 25, yeah, you know, okay, I should speak for myself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I mean, it is objectively really freaking cool if you're a kid, but the amount of money you spend, I told Jen, I go, just pay for stuff and don't tell me how much it costs. I don't even want to know because it's going to ruin it for me. It's going to ruin it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh man, that's very intense. I'm sorry, I hear you that this is really stressful. I know exactly what it's like to rob Peter to pay Paul to keep a roof over my head.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
When I was in my 20s building my first business, I was in this position, and I remember telling landlords the rent check is in the mail, and then when it wasn't the right amount, because it was short, telling them, oh, my assistant made a mistake, I'll send the balance immediately with another check that is going in the mail. It's a very intense place to be. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, early days? Yeah, it's tough. That's wild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
On the last day, we took the kids to the character breakfast where Goofy is run around and Mickey Mouse is run around, they take photos with you and they high five your kids or whatever. And it's $35 for each kid to eat Jell-O and a cookie for breakfast or whatever, like a fake waffle in the shape of Mickey Mouse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh man, this is a tough story. I'm really bummed for you because this is incredibly frustrating. It's funny, Gabe, I see more and more social media content and ads for the beauty industry on Instagram and stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I just assumed the industry was booming. I'm not even the target and I see it. So there are so many new products and injections and devices and treatments and social media is making people want to look more attractive. I just... Guess I didn't realize the industry was going through this huge crisis.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So everything you're describing, it sounds really bleak, really demoralizing, not to mention exhausting. This is a lot to deal with, and most of this macro industry stuff is out of your control, which probably makes everything harder. But look, there's one huge bright spot in your letter, and that is you. Honestly, you sound like an extraordinary employee a really solid person, and I hear you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You don't have grand aspirations to be super rich or super famous. I appreciate that, but look at how you're meeting these challenges. You're coming in early, you're staying late, you're coming in on your days off, you're working your butt off, you're a champ. I'm not saying those are sustainable strategies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm not sure they're actually working, but someone else in your shoes might just throw up their hands and complain and expect the world to solve their problems, and you're not doing that. You're just meeting these headwinds with more commitment, and I really admire that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
and I think that quality is actually one of your superpowers, and it's probably gonna be the key to surviving this chapter and navigating the rest of your career, so let's talk about how to do that. It seems to me you have two broad options. Option one is you stay in the beauty industry, but you adapt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Adapting means accepting the facts of your profession as they are and choosing to work with them, which might mean making less money and adjusting your lifestyle, which doesn't sound like a realistic option. You're already treading water, but that is one way to respond.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It might mean supplementing your income with a second job, which you're in the process of interviewing for, and who knows, maybe something good will come along. The job hunt can be brutal, I know, but it's a process. You might find something great. It might mean building more relationships at other spas and practices, maybe finding one that pays better or doesn't do commissions or...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
is responding to these industry changes better. Maybe you partner with other businesses. I don't know, a wedding planner, a wellness center, a hotel or something, and you find a way to do some cross promotion to get new clients without having to do the social media hustle. Okay, any brides you send my way for some Botox, great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Any newly engaged women who come to my spa, I'll send them your way as well. People do this in other industries all the time. It might also mean finding a niche within the aesthetician world and becoming excellent at it. You become the eyebrow tattoo artist or the microdermabrasion expert in your area or whatever, so much so that you can charge more, make your clients more loyal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And for an adult to get an omelet and coffee, it was like 60 bucks, not including whatever else. And so I remember paying, again, 250 bucks for a breakfast where they basically just were like, oh, All right, let's take a photo with Goofy, a photo with Minnie Mouse, eat a little thing of jello, eat some ice cream, and go in the car. It was just bonkers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Jen had her eyebrows tattooed. And I think the wait list for her artist was over a year. It might have even been two years or something. It was crazy long, and it was not cheap. It was impressive. A lot of people missing eyebrows out there, I guess. I don't know. Oh, and you gotta get them touched up. So it's like you're not done when you get them done. You gotta go back again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And on a related note, maybe you become so good at that niche, you start teaching other aestheticians how to do it, and you slowly start building a side hustle doing trainings on weekends, which maybe that's not interesting to you. Sounds cool to me, not to mention lucrative.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Look, this might even mean becoming a part-time content creator to make your commissions, which I totally get why you don't want to do that. That is absolutely fair. I hear you that the economics are bad, but, and let's just play with this for a second, it's an interesting question why something like content creation isn't worth your time, but going into the spa on your days off is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Can imagine why it's probably more doable and more impactful in the short term, but if this is purely a question of time and money, then you're already spending your time working when you're not making money, right? You're already dragging down your hourly wage to below minimum wage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So I'm not sure if doing makeup tutorials on YouTube or Botox breakdowns on TikTok or whatever, I'm not sure that that's actually a worse decision just from a business perspective. But anyway, I'm not telling you that the answer is to become a beauty influencer. What I am encouraging you to do is stay open.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Try not to get too attached to your current way of doing things or the obvious way of doing things because that can keep you stuck and another year could go by and nothing will change. Whereas if you tried a few new ways to work with the reality of your industry, as depressing as it is, you might be surprised by what you find. It's just something to think about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Option two is you make a career change, you pivot to a new industry. I know you left school to pursue this field. I know that probably feels like a huge shift, but honestly, you're in your late 20s. That's still so young. People make career pivots in their 40s, in their 50s, sometimes even after that. So this is another thing I would stay open to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And of course, I can't tell you what field that should be. That's for you to decide. It could be another trade. It could mean going back to school. I wish I could just tell you, oh yeah, you've been tattooing people's eyebrows for eight years. Go do this new thing. But that's not how it works. This is gonna be a process.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So my advice is take this time to think about what lights you up, which aspects of being an esthetician you genuinely enjoy the most, and think about the bigger picture, not just the technical aspects, which are important too, but the experiences you love. Maybe it's interacting one-on-one with people or helping them feel confident or teaching people new things, whatever that is for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Because those experiences, those callings, those are the things that actually create meaning. Those are the things you can follow into other fields. And those are the things that allow you to tell a compelling story to employers as you make a big shift. I worked as an esthetician for a decade. Now I want to be an executive recruiter. That story is random. It is hard to track.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And at the end, I wasn't like, what a ripoff, I'm never doing this again. I was like, that was worth it, which is so ridiculous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But I worked as an esthetician. I didn't love the industry, but I loved helping people feel their best and empower them to go out into their lives and succeed. And being an executive recruiter is how I want to do that now. That's a story I can wrap my head around and actually get invested in. And again, I'm not saying you should go become a recruiter, I'm just illustrating a point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And while you do that, I'd go back and listen to all the episodes we've done on finding your purpose or finding where your passions line up with what the world needs. We'll link to all of those in the show notes for you. Until you get clear on this stuff for yourself, and I would talk to your partner about this, your friends, other peers in the industry, a mentor, until you do that,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I think this job search is probably gonna feel scattershot and frustrating. Definitely find a second job if that's what you need to survive. Nothing wrong with that. But if you're looking for a pivot that's meaningful and rewarding, if you wanna rise to the top of the resume pile, you're gonna need to do some inner work to get clear on what your intention is here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And that might take a little while. And that's okay. I know it's stressful right now. I get it. But also, be patient. Hang in the question for a little while. Maybe use some of those hours you're working for free to focus on yourself. And I'm confident that things will start to make more sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I like that. Also, hey, this is one of the best ways to network, to just reach out to peers and ask if they're open to chatting about the business. It's low stress, it's very organic, and who knows, maybe one of these people tells you about some secret hack they learned how to make better commissions, and maybe one of them says, oh, my spa's hiring, I'll pass your resume along.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You just never know. But here's what I know for sure. When you're in the middle of a crisis, really any time, but especially when you're in a crisis, your relationships are everything. Everything. So I'd put people at the center of all these strategies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You can't know how these dots are gonna connect, but you can book a 20 minute call with somebody while you're driving to the spa, on your day off, or while you're going for a panty de-stress walk on a Sunday, and those calls will eventually open doors you can't even imagine right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I hope that gives you a few ways forward here, but like I said earlier, your work ethic, your attitude, this willingness to do whatever it takes, it's a superpower, my friend, and it's a gift to any employer that you come in contact with. So keep showing up with that mindset, keep sharing that quality with people, and I know it'll take good care of you. We're rooting for you, and good luck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
All right, now for the recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So my recommendation of the week is hand towels in the bathroom. So I went to my wife's friend's house. This is like a decade ago now. And they're loaded. They're just like silly rich. Probably one of the wealthiest people that I know. And I went to the bathroom at their house. And in the bathroom...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Of course they have the regular towels, the one that everyone uses, but they also had a basket, and in the basket were these rolled up little washcloths, and you could use those to dry your hands, and then under the sink there was another basket where you threw the dirty washcloth. Oh yeah, that's a fancy bathroom when you see that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I was like, wait a minute, you only see this at fancy steakhouses. Hotels. Hotels. So then came out and I said, Jen, you gotta go to the bathroom. She came back, she goes, the hand towels? I go, yeah. And then I said, that can't be that expensive of a thing to do. You're going to reuse these. You're not going to have people doing ridiculous stuff with them because it's your home. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
No one's having a date with Miss Michigan with those towels. Yeah, for sure. No, hopefully not. And you know what? I'll never know because they're washable. They get washed in the basket and under the thing. So gross. That is really gross. We'll link to the bucket-o-towels, basically there's an Amazon that just gives you like 20.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's so easy, you just throw them in the laundry, when you wash them, you don't have to roll them up, you can just fold them normally and stack them, and people who go into our bathroom in the living room, in our house, they universally come out and go, wow, These hand towels, fancy. Or they're like, I love that you have these in there. That is so nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And I've had people in my living room from just random parents of my kids' friends all the way to people who have been on the show, have hundreds of millions of dollars or whatever stashed up somewhere and build submarines. And they equally come out and they're like, nice touch of the hand towels. Yeah, way to cosplay as a Four Seasons. I like it. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But you know what, they hire so well, and they train so well. A perfect example of this, I went on Space Mountain with Jaden, which I thought would terrify him, but he loved it. It's actually kind of scary. It's just a roller coaster in the dark, and it's a little scary that I thought. When we came out, there was this little girl in the stroller, and she was crying her face off, okay?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And I will tell you, if I had this kind of towel game as a bachelor, I feel like that increases your chances, right? Because a woman walks in there and she goes, oh, this guy has style. This is a hygiene indicator. Who knew that having hand towels in the bathroom could be an aphrodisiac?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Towel game on fleek. All right, in case y'all didn't know, there's a subreddit for the show if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes. A lot of you didn't love our homeschooling episode. What's funny about this is the subreddit goes crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
A lot of people hated the homeschooling episode, and I did that one on purpose because Nick and I have just wildly different opinions on homeschooling and education, but people were furious about that. They were like, I hate that, you've lost all credibility, and it's like, okay, so if I have somebody on who I disagree with and you disagree with, the show sucks now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But anyway, it's really interesting to get into discussions on the subreddit about that. There were two threads about that. One was, this is the best Skeptical Sunday co-host because he disagrees with Jordan and they talk about it. And the other thread was about how much they hated that episode of Skeptical Sunday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So there's a lot of fun back and forth going on in the subreddit, a lot of fun conversations. So if you are a Reddit user, a Redditor, you can find us over there on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But they will do this thing where you get service, okay, fine, and the tip choices are 18, 22, and 25%. And what's weird is it's not in any sort of order that you would expect. It's not like 18 left, 22 middle, 25 right. It's like 25 left, 18 in the middle, 22, and you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm on to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I think that's the bind that a lot of potential parents are in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And another gal who was probably early 20s was sweeping the ground and picking up gum wrappers and stuff. People dropped gum. and just cleaning up trash and making sure the place was clean, wiped down, and not sticky. By the way, no trash can is full and no trash can is sticky or gross in that whole park. And there's thousands of them in that whole park. Yeah, it's immaculate, actually. It is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Man, Gabe, you're going to make us tell these people whether they should reproduce? That's the letter we're going out with? Just a light one. Just a casual one to kick off the weekend. Yeah, no presh, just your everyday should I bring children into the world question. Cool, yeah. Thank you. So, first of all, I can relate to a lot of your letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I don't know if there's anyone out there, no thoughtful person anyway, who has zero qualms or zero questions about having kids. It's a massive decision, it's a huge responsibility, it's one of the most, if not the most important decision most of us will ever make. And like all decisions, it involves a calculation of rewards and costs and which trade-offs you're willing to live with.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You touched on a bunch of them. You'd probably experience a ton of joy and gratification by having kids. I was touched when you mentioned all the cool experiences and talents you'd want to give your children. I would love to grow up like that. That sounds amazing. It sounds like you guys would be awesome parents. And you'd also have to make major sacrifices
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Your lifestyle, for sure, is just a casualty of that. Your time, you say goodbye to that, your stress level goes up, your energy, your body, especially for mothers, these are two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other. So I honestly cannot tell you yes, definitely have kids, or no, definitely don't have kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
What I can share, based on my own experience and watching a lot of other parents go through this, is a few things. First, if you're gonna have kids, I think you need to make peace with the fact that this is an intense and highly ambiguous decision. There's no way to have kids and not experience the stress and responsibility and sacrifices you described.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Even if you're super wealthy, you got a ton of support, it's always a huge change. And if you decide to do it, you have to be willing to accept that. It's less about finding a way to minimize the burden and more about embracing it as an essential part of the experience. It's the cost, so to speak, of getting to experience all the upsides.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Speaking as a dad here, that stress, that burden, yes it's hard for sure, but it can also be a fun stress and a joyful burden, so it's not quite as binary as you might think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Something else to keep in mind, but listen, what gives me some pause in your letter is this thing you said, how your husband doesn't really express a desire to have kids anytime soon, he more fears regretting not having them, and meanwhile you fear resenting them. That's a little bit concerning to me, or at least it brings up some questions. Not that there's anything wrong with those feelings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
They're perfectly normal, totally valid, but they do make me wonder if parenthood is really calling you guys or calling you guys for the right reasons. Look, The thought that you might regret not having kids in the future. That's a real thing and that's a meaningful variable to consider But it's ultimately a thought and it's a thought about the future.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's highly abstract It's not about the here and now or about the soon-to-be like I really want to have kids now or soon Let's do it. It's about dodging a feeling in the future So I'm just not sure how much stock you could put in that that fear is also about him, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's also what gives me some pause. He's going, I'm afraid I'll regret not doing it, which again, totally fair, but if that's his main reason for having kids, that's something to explore because the truth is, having kids, yeah, in one big way, it's selfish. We want them, so we have them,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
The trash cleaner gal goes up to this little girl in the stroller next to her mom and goes, what's wrong, princess? She couldn't talk. The mom goes, oh, she rode Space Mountain for the first time and she got scared and she goes, I know how to fix that. I have a magic trick that'll fix that. Why don't we go on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But I think to be a great parent, at least to feel at peace with this decision, that self-interest has to be balanced by a genuine love and dedication to your future children, the idea that you can set them up to live successful and meaningful lives. And I hear you that your husband does want that. I'm not saying he doesn't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm just saying keep an eye on the motivations here because avoiding future regret, that's a consideration, but I'm just not sure it's the best reason to do something this big. and then you fear resenting your future children, which also gives me some pause, and again, that is a totally valid feeling to have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I also really appreciate that you're clocking that now, rather than rushing into the decision and then waking up in a year with this resentment after you've had a kid or two. but I would really want to explore that feeling before you commit. What specifically would make you resentful? What relationship would you need to have with your kids?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
What supports would you need in place, even if only from your husband, to not feel resentful? Can you get to a place where your resentment, if it's there, is outweighed by your joy? That's the place where I feel like I am, right? It's like I can't pick up and go to wherever I want for a week at a time anymore, but I'm gonna go play Legos and it's gonna be awesome and make it all worth it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Totally. But I'm of two minds here. I hesitate to say, yeah, I definitely don't have kids if you feel that way, because I know that all parents have at least flashes of resentment. I certainly have. It's usually for like five minutes. Then it goes away when I read them a bedtime story or whatever. The little moments of, man, what do we do here? That doesn't ultimately make me regret having kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But if you're already sensing that you'd resent the hit to your life a lot of the time, I would really sit with that, man. Again, I'm not pushing you to any conclusion. It's very possible that you just need to work through some of these fears or make peace with them. Like I said, invite them in more. And the answer on the other side will be,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yes, I do want children, and I'm willing to risk experiencing some degree of resentment sometimes, and if that feeling ever comes up, I'm gonna work through it, slash I'm determined to make the joy of being a parent greater than any resentment I might feel. And again, that's the spot where I find myself. So again, this isn't game over.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And then the mom was like, yeah, we went and we're going to go there now. And she goes, I'll walk you to the front. We'll go on that right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's just an important feeling I would explore in a lot more depth before committing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So the trash lady stopped what she was doing, took the mom, took the daughter who was still crying to Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, doubtless went through some secret back door and skipped to the front of the line or something like that just to cheer up this girl who was a little bit sad at Disneyland. And I thought, This is such good management and training. My mind is flat out blown.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, 100%. Or just to keep all options on the table here, because again, we're not telling you what to do. You might explore all that and go, yeah, there's no way I won't feel resentful. I don't want to put that on my children. I better not have kids. I'm not saying that's the right conclusion. I'm just saying absolutely a fair choice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But look, all in all, the factors I would prioritize are your genuine excitement about creating a new life, your dedication to people other than yourselves, setting your kids up for success and meaning, because yes, I do think a strong desire is a key, maybe not the only key, but it is a crucial key.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I also know that people do often grow into parenthood, your love for them, your understanding of what they need, your own instincts, all of that only grows over time, but that is not necessarily true of everyone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So, connected to that, I would also factor in your emotional resources, your inner resources, how much love and attention you have to give, how available you are to raise happy, healthy kids, and I realize that it's hard to know that before they arrive, but I think if you really look inside, you can sense whether that capacity is at least there. Also,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Your practical and financial resources, those obviously matter too. I'm not saying you need to be uber wealthy or surrounded by family in order to justify having kids, not by any means. But you want to make sure that you can give them the life you want to give them, that you have access to the experiences and the people and the places they need to thrive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And unfortunately, in this modern world, that requires a decent amount of money. Although maybe you guys have more resources in Central Europe just due to low cost of living. So that's pretty cool. The other variable I would prioritize is your relationship with each other.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
How strong your partnership is, how much you love each other, how well you guys work together as a team, that is absolutely crucial to raising children, and that includes how you guys are talking through this decision together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
For sure, it's an impossible question for anyone from the outside to answer. Unless there were super obvious red flags or green flags, although I will say, that thing you said about how you and your husband don't share that deep, unquestioning desire for kids, not saying that's a red flag or a definitely do not proceed sign, but it is something I would really sit with and unpack.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You'll never be completely conflict-free about having kids, but if you don't genuinely want them on a pretty deep level, that's totally fair, but that's a signal you wanna take seriously at the very least.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But you're in the boat I think most people are in, which is there are good reasons to do it, there are good reasons not to do it, and ultimately that means getting clear on your psychology, your motivations, your values, the benefits and trade-offs you can live with, and also making peace with the fact that parenthood will always be a mixed bag, as it should be.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
They do. Even the crankiest looking security guys were on it and would just light up as soon as you talk to them. And the training involved is just crazy. You feel for them though, because they are clearly not allowed to have a single bad moment of any bad day in their whole life while they're at work. Oh, did something horrific happen to you today?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That's an essential part of the journey. But I appreciate how much thought you're putting into this because the stakes are high, so while you might never get to a place where the answer is crystal clear, I would definitely get to a place where you feel you've done the work to be the best possible parent because you and your kids deserve that, frankly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Ultimately, they're the variable that matters most, kind of the whole point of having them, so that might be the thing you need to sit with right now. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Don't forget to check out our episodes with Russ Swain, the Mormon art student gone counterfeiter, and our Skeptical Sunday on sextortion. Go ahead and listen to those if you haven't had a chance to do so yet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I know we talked about it a little bit earlier on the show. Six Minute Networking, the course is free. The drills take a few minutes a day. Dig that well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you need them in very non-cringy ways.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You can find the course for free at sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts are on the website. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Salauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. The deepest parts of our oceans remain a mystery, with 75% still unexplored.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You're about to hear a preview with Victor Vescovo, the first person to reach the deepest points of all five oceans, built and piloted a submarine that defied crushing pressures, revealing a world few have ever seen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh, put on a smile and forget all about that because if you are even remotely weird to one guest at one time, it taints the business image. So you gotta be good. We brought a portable little potty because the kids always have to go to the bathroom the second we're at the maximum distance from the bathroom.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
What did Victor find in the darkness where even light cannot reach? To find out, listen to episode 1089 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
or we already waited in the huge line to go and they didn't have to go, and then as soon as I go, they're like, now I have to pee, so we bring these little portable potty that a show fan actually gave us, and the guard goes, I'm sorry, I can't let you in with this because it becomes a biohazard for us, yadda yadda, so Jen ran, threw it back in the room, I had a few extra minutes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So I was chatting with the security guard and I go, hey, what are you actually looking for? I mean, people don't bring their gun to Disneyland. He's like, you'd be surprised. It's almost always just innocent. Oh, I carry this all the time. Or oops, I forgot I had this in this bag, that kind of stuff. And he goes, but we're also looking for things that tick.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I was like, well, that sounds a little bit last century time bomb. What are you really looking for? He goes, oil stains and weird wires poking out or things that are like unusually heavy. Oil stains. What do you mean oil stains?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
so explosives and i'm no expert at all but explosive materials are often very oily oh god i thought he meant like we don't want people bringing fish and chips into the park no no no no no no they're very oily so if say you put it in a bag to disguise what it is it's going to seep through the paper it's going to seep through the liner it's going to seep through the bag and you're like oh that's weird you're at disneyland and you just have a bag that has a weird oil stain on the outside let me just take a look inside there it's that kind of thing
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And he goes, can you tell I used to do something else for a living? But he was also this very kind old man who was like, give me a knuckle bump, kid. Oh, you've got magic in you. He's like a really kind grandpa who you can tell can shoot a bullseye at 100 yards. And it was just they picked that guy out of 100,000 applicants as well. He's probably like ex-military special forces.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You're just trying to get people who are not paying attention in our inner hurry to hit 25% as quickly as possible. Now, I'm sympathetic to the plight of the server. I think they should be paid a living wage. Stop trying to trick me into paying them for that level of service. And it's always the places where the service is not that good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And now his retired gig is hanging out at Disneyland looking for bombs and guns.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
that makes me feel better about Disneyland I'm glad those people are in those jobs I am dying to know what plots they've foiled at Disneyland the FBI must have had intelligence on stuff the security guys surely have found things in fact if anybody out there has any info on this hit me up I'll keep you anonymous I'm dying to know because that seems like the perfect Target right the happiest place on Earth very American Peak capitalism you damage the business
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
to the tune of tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars if anything weird happened there, like an explosion near the castle. It would just make international news and damage the business for years. So they must be a very prime sort of target for bad actors, and yet I've never heard of anything happening at Disneyland.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
All that means to me is that they've caught them in time, because otherwise you would have 8,000 phone videos of the aftermath of whatever it was. So I am just so curious. But you never hear about it. You never hear the FBI or the security at Disneyland foiled a plot or found this thing. They keep that under wraps for sure. So I'm just very curious what they have foiled.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And hopefully nothing ever happens there because it's a bunch of kids and families just relaxing. That's what makes it a target for psychopaths, right, militants and terrorists. Anyway, on that fun note, what's the first thing out of the mailbag let's slip into the feedback Friday, which is always cheerful and upbeat. Dear Jordan and Gabe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I will tip you 22, 20, whatever percent if the service is really good at a nice place. If I have to go get the refills myself and I'm getting kicked out of the kitchen by the manager because I've walked back there twice to find a person who freaking works here, I am not gonna tip you 25%. I'm just not going to do it. I know you're overworked and that's why you didn't come to my table.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Boy, this is, it's a tough one, but it's fascinating as well. All right, first of all, I'm very sorry to hear that your wife had this painful childhood, that she struggled with a disability, that she was treated poorly because of it. I can frankly only imagine what kind of messages a child with a disability receives when they're
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I don't know, not picked for a school play, or they don't get invited to kids' birthday parties, which I hope doesn't happen because that makes me want to cry, or not treated well by teachers, and generally told that a lot of things, maybe most things, just aren't an option for her. That's just terrible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, just never getting a shot at anything and then slowly as you get older realizing it's because people see you differently a certain way. When it sounds like your wife could have done so many more things than people said she was capable of, those must be very profound wounds. It's heartbreaking. There's real trauma there on top of the abuse that she apparently endured.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So your wife has been through a lot. I can understand why she's depressed. I can also understand why all of this has made her kind of defiant. They told me I can't have dreams, so I'm going to dream even bigger. I'm going to dream even harder, which in a certain way, that's kind of incredible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Why some people might go through a childhood like this and just fold, stay small, and why other people like your wife, they'd enter adulthood with a fire in the belly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Right. Yeah. Clearly his wife's ambitions and not just the dreams themselves, but the way she's going about trying to achieve them or lack of a way they're all right. Let's call it like it is. They sound kind of delusional.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's almost escapist in nature. They'd be delusional even for a person with a bunch of talent, no disability, who's working in a certain industry. Even if you are working in commercials in Hollywood and you say, one day I'm gonna be in a Hollywood blockbuster, even that sounds delusional. She wants to be the chief of medicine at a hospital and a great crusader in politics and a famous artist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Just achieving one of these things at the green belt level is hard enough. That's potentially the work of an entire lifetime. So it sounds like there's some grandiosity here. Yeah, it's grandiose, exactly. And again, this would be grandiose for anyone to believe, but all the more so for somebody who apparently does have some kind of real practical limitations.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
In this fantasy, he mentioned that she imagines herself at a production of, I don't know, Wicked or whatever's trending, and she's like, how cool would it be if I left the dinner table and turned up on stage and surprised everyone? Ta-da! Mm-hmm. Along with the letter writer here, I'm just not sure what to do with that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So part of me hears that and goes, man, that's got to be a really meaningful fantasy for somebody who never got to have big moments in her life. If it's a fun daydream, let her have it. Maybe that highly active imagination is an essential part of her personality, given the life that she's had. And then another part of me hears that and goes, girl, you are a deluder. Deluder.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That's not my fault. What are we talking about again?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
You're wearing t-shirts that say that you're an alpha. It's just, you think I'm exaggerating or kidding here, but you can get led to some dark places and surround yourself with some negative people. Carbons final thought for you, every case is a marathon. And in his experience, a custody battle is an ultra marathon. You're exhausted, you're at the end of your rope. How could you not be?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
This is more than anyone should ever have to endure. Corbyn hat gesagt, dass das völlig verständlich ist, aber er hat auch gesagt, dass man verlieren wird, wenn man nicht herausfinden kann, wie man die Unendurable verhindern kann, um in der Face von ferocious opposition from your ex in the face of an unfeeling, uncaring legal system to continue in the face of an unfeeling, uncaring legal system.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
If you had a sandwich in your hand, would you put it on a bare naked tray table or would you want to sanitize that sucker first or put some other surface between the tray table and your food?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I know that sounds really scary. And that's part of the reason that Corbyn is so passionate about recommending things like support groups and telling your story and using it to lobby for change. Because these initiatives, they really can empower you. They can give you a sense of meaning, purpose, community. And you need those things when you're in a soul-sucking litigation and situation like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
In our experience, they're one of the only things that can keep you healthy, keep you grounded, keep you motivated when the whole system seems to conspire against you. Again, I'm so very sorry for the manipulation and the heartache that you've been through. I'm even sorrier for your son, his health issues, the trauma he's endured and is enduring.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm even sorry for your ex to some degree, because as we talked about last week with the psychotic neighbor, her reality must be a very painful and terrifying one. Und ehrlich gesagt, ich bin es schuld für das ganze Land Norwegen hier, weil appelliert sein Legalsystem einen horrifischen Verbrechen ermöglicht. Nicht, dass es nicht unser ist. Und das ist einfach nicht in Ordnung.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es enttäuscht jeden Sinn, ob richtig oder falsch. Und ehrlich gesagt, es enttäuscht den Allgemeinen Sinn. Und es ist wirklich traurig. Also bleib stark, Bruder. Bleib für deinen Sohn kämpfen. Er braucht dich. and surround yourself with people who give you love, confidence, hope, energy, maybe some cash on the side. You deserve all of this. Keep trusting. Something will shift here eventually.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sending you and your son the biggest of hugs. Good luck. Speaking of avoiding financial ruin, a word from the people who pay all of my bills. We'll be right back. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Untertitelung aufgrund der Audioqualität nicht möglich.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I just want you to know that. Now I'm questioning myself here. If you're a flight attendant, are those really just for your hands or are you supposed to clean your seat? Tell me the truth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Okay, let's talk about the new year. You're probably thinking about resolutions like maybe hitting the gym, you're gonna eat better, maybe you're gonna finally organize that junk drawer that could double as a time capsule from the 90s. But here's an easier one. Let Audible expand your life just by listening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
On the Jordan Harbinger Show we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Unsere Mission ist es, dich zu helfen, besser informiert und kritischer zu werden. Und während der Woche haben wir langfristige Gespräche mit einer Vielzahl von tollen Leuten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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If you need relationship tips that don't involve arguing over the thermostat, okay, they got you covered. If you're thinking about making a career move or tackling your finances, they've got listens for that too. And the best part is you can learn and grow while doing stuff you already do. Commuting, working out, folding laundry like an absolute champion.
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1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Suddenly, you're crushing your goals and you didn't even break a sweat unless you listen to audiobooks while you're working out, then sweat away. Start your 30-day trial at audible.com slash jhs. It's like a personal trainer for your brain without needing to break a sweat. Thank you for listening and supporting the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support this podcast are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who make the show possible. Alright, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Wow. All right. Well, first of all, I'm so very sorry that you and your community have been through so many devastating fires the past few years. I really am. Whether it's fair or not, seeing what's happened in L.A., just because it's closer to me, I have a lot more personal friends there, connections to it. It really makes those numbers you've shared very real and very vivid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Von organisierten Krimifiguren bis zu Kriegskorrespondenten, Astronauten bis zu Nationalen Sicherheitsanwälten und Technik-Luminären. Diese Woche hatten wir Anne Applebaum über autoritäre Regime, warum und wie sie mit einander kooperieren und den Welt einen schlimmeren Ort machen oder zumindest einen gefährlichsten. Wir haben auch letzten Sonntag einen skeptischen Sonntag über Fake Foods gemacht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Not to mention the loss of life. These disasters are just awful. And I'm very sorry to hear that they've decimated people financially for so long. That is also deeply tragic and very much a symptom of so many things wrong with our system. And I thank you for writing in and sharing your story because it really does help open up our worldview.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
It's really easy to just focus on what's happening in our own backyards and ignore all the tragedies around the world or even around the state. I also think that's human nature to some degree and part of living in this modern world where there are So many terrible things happening at any given moment. So it's not necessarily that no one cares. It's just hard sometimes to make room for all of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
So look, I take your point. Absolutely. It looks like Gabe does. He's nodding along right now. L.A. is obviously not the only city in California to be hit by devastating wildfires, to say nothing of all the natural disasters that affect this country every year. Flüsse, Erkrankungen, Hurrikanen. Aber du hast recht. L.A. bekommt viel mehr Aufmerksamkeit, weil es L.A. ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Weil viele Leute, die in den Palisaden in Malibu lebten, hochprofile sind. Sie sind reich, weil sie Filmstar sind. Sie sind Influencer. Das Gebäude war sehr teuer. Was auch immer es ist. Und in einer Art und Weise ist das unwahr und verrückt. Ich stimme dazu. Aber leider ist das die Art, wie unser Medien-Ökosystem funktioniert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und diese beiden Geschichten, die du über die Familien auf deinem Block erzählst, das ist schmerzhaft. Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass ich in einem RV wachgehe. Es gibt keine Worte. Ich hoffe wirklich, dass sie sich zurück auf ihre Füße bringen können. Über den 9-11-Komment. Ich glaube, ich finde mich, um das klarzumachen, obwohl ich denke, dass ich das auf dem Episode gesagt habe. Ich war
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich war nicht direkt mit den beiden Tragedien zu vergleichen. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob man das kann. Ich habe nur kommentiert, wie diese Events eine Art und Weise haben, Menschen zu wechseln und das Beste in ihnen zu bringen. Das ist alles. Also, wenn du das als L.A. hat, es ist 9-11. Was zur Hölle haben wir in NorCal durchgegangen? Das ist nicht alles, was wir darüber gesprochen haben.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Das ist nicht, was wir überhaupt meinten. Also, wiederum, ich bin froh, dass du es zeigst, weil es leicht zu überprüfen kann. And it's not right that fires that are much bigger and more frequent get less attention or less compassion or fewer government resources. And I would hope that from now on, you guys don't feel forgotten or ignored when you need help the way LA needs help right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites and go on ridiculous side rants about the state of modern commercial air travel. Alright, let's get to it today. As always, we've got some fun ones and some crazy, of course, ones. So, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich stimme total zu. Und schau, ich will auch darüber nachdenklicher sein, was andere auch durchgehen, natürlich. Aber ich bin auch nicht wütend, dass die Leute in Valencia oder der Amazon nicht aufhören, was sie tun und uns Schriften schreiben und Geld zahlen, wenn wir einen Desaster haben. Ich verstehe, dass wir in sehr verschiedenen Orten leben, in sehr verschiedenen Realitäten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und ehrlich gesagt, ich weiß nicht, was ich darüber sagen soll. Es ist ein bisschen kaputt. Aber es ist auch nur so, wie die Welt jetzt funktioniert. Ich sage nicht, dass ich es mag. Ich endorse es nicht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber wir müssen akzeptieren, dass die Art und Weise, wie Leute zu Events wie diesem reagieren, die mentale und kulturelle Realität, die sie aufnehmen, unfassbar ist, dass sie auf Geld und Influenz abhängig sind. Und ja, das ist dumm. Das ist unfair auf irgendeinem Niveau. Aber dann ist es auch ein bisschen verständlich, dass die Stadt, die die meisten der Filme in der Welt produziert,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
und hat eine Menge kraftvolle Menschen, die in der Stadt leben, und ist ein großer Beitrag zu der fünften größten Wirtschaft in der Welt oder was auch immer California ist, dass diese Stadt global mehr Aufmerksamkeit bekommen würde. Und wenn dich das am meisten interessiert, ist es nur das, die Aufmerksamkeit, das Gefühl, sich zu erinnern, was wichtig ist, dann könnte das immer der Fall sein.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber ich hoffe, dass es das Staat nicht stoppt, von Bereichen wie deiner, zu kümmern. And I would hope that there are programs to help people like the neighbors you mentioned, because those stories truly break my heart. But I think the answers to that ultimately are at the voting booth and in the way that we live our individual lives in the aftermath of a tragedy like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
This is a heavy letter. Interesting letter. Very eye-opening. Thank you for writing in. You can reach us friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your elderly parents are living next to an aggressive psychotic person and the state won't intervene, Hey Leute, ich arbeite gerade als Studentenassistent bei der Rechtsfakultät meiner Universität.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
That's like valet. Totally. I don't even know what a valet does other than that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Das ist so seltsam. Cool Manners, Bro. Was für eine seltsame Situation das ist. Was ist das? Dieser Kerl ist ein Turd.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Well said. Not somebody I'd give any time or energy to, more than is absolutely necessary. These people are just a black hole. This guy almost sounds like disabled socially.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Probably a lot of institutions do, to some degree, right? Part of the function of any institution, companies, universities, anything, it always eventually becomes about preserving the power of the people at the top. It's just something our species does, unfortunately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, these are great questions. What a character. And I put that, that's the most charitable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. Probably in a, I'm going to have stress dreams and TMJ for the rest of my life kind of character. So to state the obvious here, and as someone who's brushed up against his fair share of Professor Xs, I'm sorry you have to work with this guy. You captured so vividly what it's like to have to interact with an A-hole like this. It's
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
They also have a way of making you feel really awkward. Yes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yes, I used to work with somebody. You'd start talking and they would just start talking over you. Not to talk over you louder. It was just like as if you weren't saying anything. And I eventually, after a while, I was like... Do they not notice? They just don't listen to anyone else. They're just waiting to talk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And if you happen to be talking during that time, he just expects you to stop talking. He's not being louder, nothing. He's just expecting you to defer to him. I eventually started going, excuse me, I'm not done yet. And he was like, ugh, like frazzled out. I can't believe anybody would ever say that to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I like that. Yeah, I didn't even do it rude. I was just like, I'm still talking. I'm sure that the story is, can you believe that Jordan guy? He would just talk and talk, never let anybody else talk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And then they're like just flagging that you're interrupting me for the 500th time this week. That's all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's almost like one of those tricks you'd learn on a YouTube from Charisma on Command.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yes, don't ever say the last word. Let other people have the last word. I know it's counterintuitive, guys. My friend Charlie runs that channel. Like, I know it's counterintuitive, guys, but trust me, let the other person have the last word and they'll be left reeling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
No shade to Charlie. Shout out to Charisma on Command YouTube channel. Anyway, this guy, what a character. I'm with you. I just can't with people like this. Like, okay, you're a little prickly, you're not touchy-feely, you're not that warm, you're a tough customer. Fine. I can deal with that. Especially if you're really good at what you do and it's all about the work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
But if you're actively looking for opportunities to dominate people and disrespect them and throw them off balance just because it's fun or it makes you feel good about yourself, screw you. Life's way too short to deal with people like this. So, is it possible to push back against this guy respectfully? I doubt it. I don't see this guy responding to boundaries or feedback very well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I guess there's a world where somebody brave enough to check him might get his attention, maybe in a weird way, he'd kind of respect it. But this could very easily go the other way. He lashes out, he figures out how to punish you, holds a vendetta for the next five years, tries to put you back in your place to reestablish the power dynamic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And because this guy is your superior, he might even end up being one of your examiners. There are some delicate politics at play, which he obviously understands better than anyone. It might just not be worth rocking the boat. The last thing you need is somebody who's hellbent on making sure you don't get your PhD or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And even if he did respect it and treat you better, he'd probably still be a total see you next Tuesday to work with on anything. So I'm just not sure it would do all that much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Can you stop being such a dick?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And then you run to the bathroom to change your underwear because that's the scariest conversation of your life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
On the second point, definitely not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that is an interesting question. Does it actually matter if this guy hates her? Can she talk to her faculty and get a different examiner? Can she still graduate with good grades and good recommendations and land a job, even if this guy is not her biggest fan? If so, I'd be more willing to stand up to him, but that's me at 45 years old.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I don't know how old you are, but when I was 23, just a little pisher in law school, I doubt I would have stood up to somebody like this. You get older, you start giving... Das war's für heute. You might need to stay in his good graces for when he's your examiner. And maybe you try thinking of him as narcissist grad school. And you learn how to duck and weave with this guy's BS.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Build better boundaries, a stronger sense of self, and just remember that nothing that Professor X does is actually a reflection of you. It's a reflection of how pathological his personality is. Und ich muss sagen, ich denke tatsächlich, dass das wichtig ist, egal, was du im Endeffekt tust, weil das nicht der letzte Narzissist ist, den du in der legalen Welt erleben wirst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Wenn meine Gesetzeskarriere, meine sehr kurze Gesetzeskarriere, irgendeine Beleidigung ist. Und auch, es ist eine wirklich gute Praxis, zu lernen, wie man nicht A-Holes in deinem Leben verletzen kann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es ist nicht einfach, aber es ist so hilfreich, zu lernen, wie man das emotionale Hazmat-Suit bauen kann, wie man sich vergeben und kompartmentalisieren kann, damit schwere Persönlichkeiten einfach nicht dein Leben oder dein Tag verletzen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And then once you're safe, when you land a job offer or something, once he can't do anything to you, maybe you write a compelling email to the faculty head, letting him know what it's like for everyone to have to work with this guy. Or you take a chance and you write that email now, maybe signed by some of your peers if they have the stones and you just accept the consequences.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
But you said this place is run like an aristocracy. I'm just not sure that they're going to take action.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
100%. Und Option 2, du entscheidest, dass dieser Kerl einfach zu schrecklich ist, damit du dich weiterentwickelst. Das ist, was ich in dieser Phase meines Lebens mache. Am Anfang ist es komplizierter, aber bevor du das tust, gib vielleicht Option 1 einen Versuch. Behalte es wie ein Spiel. Veränderst du meine Realität, wenn mein Mindset verändert? Und sieh, was passiert. Du kannst dich überraschen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Oder vielleicht ändert sich nichts. Das ist wirklich unsustainabel. Vielleicht gibt es andere Projekte, die Sie gerne machen würden und Sie einfach weitergehen. Es ist alles legit. Just make sure that you're not shooting yourself in the foot or missing an opportunity to build some of these muscles by leaving prematurely. And who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Fast forward five years, ten years, you're working for some inflated partner at a law firm or whatever, or you're a public servant presenting to some dickish MP. Whatever you do. And you finesse them perfectly. Because you worked with this Professor X guy way back when. And you know all the moves. It's possible. You never know. Whatever you do, keep listening to your intuition.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ask for advice from a few other well-informed people. Keep looking for the hidden opportunities and lessons here. And I know you're going to make the right call. Good luck. Man, I have some Dark Jordan stuff, but it's too dark and it's actually not ethical at all, so I'm going to leave it out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
But I almost feel like if we ever offer premium content, it's got to be like, okay, here's what I'd do if I was in psychopath mode. Because some of it could be juicy and fun.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And now, are you even smart enough to wrap your tiny little brain around the amazing deals on the fine products and services that support this show? Probably not, but I'll give them to you anyway. You're welcome. We'll be right back. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 If you're ready to embrace the impossible, the Defender is your perfect partner.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
This must have been a really dark time for you and your son.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Be uncapable and ready to go wherever you're headed next. Homes.com. We've done your homework. Back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Mann, was für eine tragische Situation das ist. Ich bin so entschuldigt, dass deine Mutter so tief verletzt ist und dass du mit einem Sohn wie diesem wachsen musstest. Das ist wirklich nächstes-Level-Stuff. Verrückend. Du hast gesagt, dass deine Mutter mit Paranoid-Personalitäts-Dysorder infiziert war, als du 16 warst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und es klingt, als hätte es sich über die Jahre verbessert, was wirklich schmerzhaft ist. Ich kann nicht mal vorstellen, wie es sein muss. Ich bin auch der Leute bekannt, die mich am besten kennen, als der f***ing Arzt. Und Dr. Margolis hat uns erklärt, dass es generell drei Gründe gibt, dass man jemanden involontär verletzt hat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Schmerz an sich selbst, Schmerz an anderen und was man als Gravedisability nennt, also die Person kann nicht für ihre eigenen grundlegenden Bedürfnisse, Essen, Kleidung, Schutz, wegen eines mentalen Krankheitsverletzungs oder Verletzungen. Aber... Proving that somebody is gravely disabled, that can actually be trickier than it seems.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
For example, you said your mom won't leave the house, so she obviously has shelter. It sounds like she's probably clothed as well, and whether she's clothed, that might be less relevant if she's warm and cozy at home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
So Dr. Margolis said that your best shot at proving grave disability would probably be if she's not feeding herself or she's otherwise engaging in what's called life-sustaining activities, like if she stops eating because of her delusion that you guys are poisoning her food.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Also hat sie gesagt, dass, weil deine Mutter formal verurteilt worden ist, das vielleicht helfen könnte, einen der Anforderungen für die Definition von Gravedisability zu treffen. Aber es gibt einen Niveau der Kriterien, der für diesen Niveau auch gesetzt werden muss. Und es ist unklar von deinem Brief, ob sie es wirklich treffen kann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Auch das Niveau könnte von Staat zu Staat oder sogar von Offiziell zu Offiziell verändern, ob es ein Polizist oder ein Psychiatrist ist oder ein Mitarbeiter des Departements für psychische Gesundheit. Wir haben ein bisschen in diesem Bereich gesucht. Und in Ohio, wenn du jemanden involuntär ermitteln willst,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Du beginnst generell mit dem Anzeigen, dass die Person die Kriterien für ungewöhnliche Verschuldung erfüllt. Wahrscheinlich nennt man das den Pink-Slip-Prozess, was mich ein wenig erschreckt, weil ich weiß, dass das immer ein Euphemismus war, um von einem Job ausgeführt zu werden.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, being fired from imaginary lice removal duty, which honestly, that sounds like it would be a relief to get help with a situation like this. Totally. Proleptic relief, I would add. That's right. The other option is to try to get emergency custody of your mother. So either you call 911 and you tell them your mom's in trouble. Or you take her to the hospital to get checked out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And if there's an immediate risk, law enforcement or a medical professional can take her into emergency custody and transport her to a mental health facility for evaluation, which usually happens within 24 to 72 hours. If the evaluation supports involuntary commitment, then you would have a probable cause hearing, where evidence about your mom would be presented.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
She would actually have the right to legal representation. And finally, if the court determines that the criteria for commitment are met, The person may then be ordered to receive inpatient or outpatient treatment for a specified period of time. So it's a process, not exactly a simple one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And you'd probably need to consult an attorney or a local mental health organization for help navigating this process, because it can get complicated and it can take time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Richtig, es gibt einige Alternativen zum Verteidigungsvermögen. Es gibt das Power des Verteidigungsvermögens, das ist, wenn jemand mit Volontät eine Entscheidungsvermögen für jemanden, den sie vertrauen, ermöglicht, was extrem hilfreich sein kann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und dann gibt es das Konservativismus, und das ist, wenn eine Person Hilfe mit dem Managieren ihrer Verhältnisse erfordert, obwohl das deine Moms Partizipation benötigen könnte, was bemerkenswert scheint. Sie sehen auch den Britney Spears-Debakel mit der Konservativität, aber es könnte wirklich hilfreich sein in Ihrer Situation. Also, Sie haben ein paar Optionen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Keiner von ihnen ist einfach, aber einige können weniger schwierig sein als andere. Egal, was Sie tun, ich denke, Sie werden mit einem Anwalt konsultieren wollen. Sie können Ihnen erzählen, welche Optionen mehr nötig sind, was Ihre Mutter wirklich braucht, was die Gerichte in diesem Fall möglich sind, und dann können Sie von dort aus gehen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich höre das, aber ich frage mich auch, weil sie sich immer mehr und mehr dekompensiert, vielleicht sollte er dieses Fenster benutzen, wo sie ein bisschen kohärent ist, um Konservativität oder die Macht des Unternehmens zu bekommen. Vielleicht kann er oder sein Vater es ihr anbieten, sie gut zu kümmern, wenn sie älter wird, sodass, wenn es schlechter wird, er zumindest das in der Lage hat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und das könnte all die Macht sein, die er braucht, um sie sicher zu halten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber wie du vor einem Moment gesagt hast, wenn er das tut, muss er sich auch darauf vorbereiten, dass es in ihrer Meinung nur einige ihrer paranoiden Glaubensmöglichkeiten bestätigen könnte. Und er könnte nicht viel Traction bekommen. Dr. Margolis hat auch gesagt, dass Menschen kompliziert sind und manchmal ist das System einfach schrecklich. And there are limitations to what we can and can't do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And as Dr. Margolis pointed out, that requires coming into contact with some difficult feelings and processing, again, some profound grief about not being able to help your mom, about not having the mom that you wanted and needed, about feeling powerless in general, which is where your mom's tragedy really comes back around to you and how you work through all of this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Good point. I also wonder if our friend has some feelings of his own to process around dad's resistance to getting involved. Because that seems to be making his mom's care fall entirely on him, which I'm sure brings up a lot of stuff. And maybe it speaks to his dad's whole way of dealing with his mom for years, which also might be complicated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Good point. Man, that's so tough. It's really hard to let a parent suffer like this and not intervene. I am so sorry that you have to worry about this. I'm so sorry about the legacy of having a parent like this. But your job now is to find a way to make peace with your mom's story while also taking appropriate action, whether that's legal action or taking care of yourself along the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
sending you, your mom and your whole family a big hug and wishing you all the best. Big thanks also to Dr. Margolis for her wisdom and advice. Dr. Margolis is seeing patients in Los Angeles and virtually throughout California. You can learn more about her and her approach at DrErinMargolis.com. We'll link to that in the show notes. And right now, time for the recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm on it again this week. This one is super easy, super fast. In whatever calendar program you use, your to-do list, your reminders, whatever, set an annual reminder to check expiration dates for medicine in your home and travel kit. The stuff in the drawer, the stuff in the dob kit. I needed Imodium urgently, that's, I'll just leave it there, when traveling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And all I found were two pills that expired during the Obama administration. And I mean the first part of the Obama administration. Let's just say I was desperate enough that I took them and they worked, but I don't know. It might have been nice to have something that wasn't old enough to drive, to fix something in my gut.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And by the way, it's usually safe to take expired medication, but it's not always very effective. We have an episode that we did an early Skeptical Sunday on expiration dates for medicine. It was episode 646. I think we actually mentioned medicine and not just food. But either way, worth listening to, because food expiration dates are kind of BS too. Although, you know, at your own peril.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Medicine, usually harmless, but also might not actually work. Alright, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. You can jump into discussions with other listeners about pretty much anything. There's a meme thread. It's over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit, if you are a Reddit user, or a Redditor, as us Reddit nerds call it. Alright, next up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, who brought these onions in here? Why did you have to bring the wagging tail into this? This is a very moving letter and a tough letter. I can hear the pain that you're in right now, how confusing this moment in your life is. And I am so sorry that you had to say goodbye to Mumu, which is a really cute name for a dog, by the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Die Verbindung zwischen Menschen und Pferden, besonders Pferden, ist sehr einzigartig, sehr mächtig und noch mächtiger, wenn man so viel von ihnen kümmern muss. Ein Tier, das du liebst, ist immer schrecklich. Und ein Tier, das du liebst, ist einzigartig intensiv. So everything you're feeling right now makes a lot of sense. You're grieving, man. Hard. And grief brings up a lot of stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Not just about what you've lost, but about everything leading up to it. About the future, about this moment in your life, having to navigate it all without your bud. As you know, it can be very, very painful. I'm also hearing that you did an incredible job of taking care of this dog. That was not an easy pup to have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Having your whole life revolve around an animal's care is just a beautiful commitment. It's also a massive responsibility. And it sounds like you took it all on with a lot of love and devotion. And by the way, that includes putting them down when the time was right. That is one of the most intense things you can go through, personal experience. But it's the right thing to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Being there with your animal in their final moments, I know it's devastating, but it's also an act of great love and compassion. And I'm confident that Mumu felt that. What a gift for both of you. Das ist etwas, wovon man stolz ist. Es ist etwas, wovon man dankbar ist. Also, du fragst hier eine wirklich große und profunde Frage. Wie gehen wir durch diese Verluste? Wie überleben wir Veränderungen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Wie holen wir die Teile? Und die Wahrheit ist, ich weiß nicht, ob wir all diese Fragen auf einem Podcast einfach beantworten können. Du bist in einem Prozess gerade. Ein sehr intensiver und heiliger Prozess. Morgen. Und jeder muss seinen eigenen Weg durchgehen. Aber ich kann dir ein paar Gedanken geben. Das erste, was ich dir erinnern möchte, ist die Schmerzen, die du jetzt hast.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich weiß, dass es überwältigend ist, aber es ist wirklich die Rückseite von Liebe. Das ist das, was wir machen, jedes Mal, wenn wir in eine Beziehung mit jemandem oder etwas machen. Einen Tag werden wir das verlieren. Es ist sehr intensiv.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es ist eigentlich ein bisschen verrückt, dass wir unsere Herzen an diese Tiere über und über wieder öffnen, wissend, wie es enden wird, um nichts zu sagen, was unsere Herzen an Menschen öffnet. Aber wir machen es, weil wir wissen, dass die Freude und die Verbindung die Schmerzen, die wir eindeutig fühlen, wert sind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
In that way, the pain you're feeling, it really is a reflection of how much you loved this dog and how much this dog loved you. And that pain is awful as it is. It's also kind of a privilege to feel. It's a perverse privilege, but a very real one. The second thing I want you to keep in mind, and I know this is trite, but it's true. You will not feel this exact way forever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
This grief is very fresh. You're still reeling from the loss. Everything is brand new. It's probably the most intense that it's going to be. And you have to keep reminding yourself of that. But grief evolves. These feelings, they shift. That's what they do. How you feel today, I can pretty much guarantee that you won't feel that same way in a week, two weeks, in a month, certainly in a year.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Oh, das ist... Ich bin einfach überrascht und es ist schockierend, wie jemand das zu seinem eigenen Kind tun könnte, wie das System es erlauben könnte, es unvergütbar zu machen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Whether you consciously work on it or not, there's a healing process happening in the background. And our minds are very good at adapting to new realities. It's kind of remarkable. And I say this not to minimize the pain that you're in. I say this just to give you a little perspective. I'm sure you'll always have a pang of grief when you think about Mumu.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm sure there's always going to be an empty spot in your heart. But when it gets really intense, try to remind yourself that your experience of this loss and all of these big feelings and questions it brings up, they won't always feel exactly this way. There is a version of you in the future that's living with this loss and living with it well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich denke also, dass es ein großer Teil unseres Jobs ist, wenn wir durch Schmerzen gehen, uns zu vertrauen und diesen Prozess zu ermöglichen. Das bedeutet, all die Gefühle zu fühlen, die es erzeugt. Das ist essentiell. Aber auch nicht zu stark zu ihnen zu klingen oder zu viel in ihnen zu stecken. Denn sie werden immer weiterentwickeln.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sie werden neue Gedanken, neue Gefühle erzeugen, insbesondere schöne. Und ich denke, du wirst überrascht sein, wo du in wenigen Monaten bist. So yeah, by all means, these big questions you're asking are important. I'm all for them. But a big part of your job is to just doggy paddle in these waves for just a little while. Just stay afloat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And remember that the waters will eventually calm down and what feels very painful and confusing today will start to settle and make more sense very soon.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Damn, I was not expecting Rabbi Gabe to show up today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I get it. Look, in my own way also, I haven't had a dog since I was a kid, so that grief is a little more remote for me. But what you said about life breaking down, how we constantly have to mourn, I feel that hard. I have these moments sometimes with Jaden and Juniper where I realize that. Like my life is shifting right in front of me if I really pay attention.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And I know that in a few years this chapter of my life will be dead and gone and there will be a new amazing one. And then that one will die. And then there'll be another amazing one. And if I'm lucky, that'll go on and on until I am dead. And it's sad to face that. It's also really amazing and awesome in some ways. Something kids have a real way of teaching you just by existing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And for our friend here, maybe that's what Mumu is now teaching him. So again, I'm so sorry that you had to say goodbye. I'm sorry this transition is so intense. But given everything we're talking about, I'm also not sorry. I'm actually very moved by your story. I'm inspired by it. Because I think you've been thrown into a very profound process. A really important chapter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And I'm excited to hear what comes of it. And I know that's easy for me to say, you're the one who has to hold all the pain. But I know you'll get there too. And that this loss, like all losses, is going to play an important role in your life. It's going to lead you to feelings and perspectives you can't even imagine yet. Sending you a big hug, my man. Hang in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Shout out to Mumu, that needy little Buddha who allowed us to pop off like a couple of amateur gurus today and who clearly opened your heart in some amazing ways. Don't forget to check out our episodes this week with Anne Applebaum on authoritarian regimes and how they cooperate and why, as well as our Skeptical Sunday on fake foods. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show about a guy who went from Nigerian royalty to the rugged streets of the Bronx. Remy Adeleke's life was thrown into chaos after a corrupt government stripped his family of their legacy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Dive deep into his captivating journey from being surrounded by drugs and drive-bys to his inspiring pursuit to become a US Navy SEAL, even though he didn't know how to swim.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Remys Kampf ist weit von vorbei, als er die dunkle Unterwelt des menschlichen Verbrechens und des illegalen Organverbrechens konfrontiert. Um zu entdecken, was den Mann, der nicht getötet wird, fährt, schaut euch Episode 868 von The Jordan Harbinger Show an.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Oh mein Gott, ich fühle mich für dich, Mann. Ich bin absolut lebendig hier. Das ist so ein Verbrechen des Systems. Es ist verrückt, dass sie freie legalen Hilfe bekommt, um ihr Kind zu sehen. Ich verstehe das. Aber dann, wer advokiert für das Kind? Oh, na gut, das kommt aus dem Koffer für dich, Kumpel. Was? Das macht keinen Sinn für mich.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Oh boy, what a nightmare this is. What an absolutely insane custody story. Truly next level stuff, man. God, the things you've been through here, it's insane. Literally, I suppose. I am so sorry that you and your son have been through all this. I can't even imagine how you guys must feel, the damage your ex has caused. I can hear your pain, your anger, your exhaustion in your letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And I really do feel for you. I know I'm saying that a few times here, broken record. But my heart also breaks for your son. dass er diese Verletzung von seiner Mutter erlebt hat, in Zuge dessen, dass er ein sehr zerstörerter und chaotischer Vater ist. Und das ist auf der Spitze seiner besonderen Bedürfnisse, dieser armen Kind, Mann. Ich kann nicht mal vorstellen, was er durchgehen muss.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es gibt einfach keine Worte. Ich rüttel meine Hände, warum die Gerichte in deinem Land die Möglichkeit erlauben würden, dass dein Ex mit deinem Sohn Kontakt zu haben, nach ihrem Rekord-Rekord und all diesem Beweis und den Threaten, um ihn zu töten und ihn zu töten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I thought our courts were flawed? This sounds like a total circus. And I'm so deeply sorry that you've been failed by your system. It's crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
No kidding, seriously. What are they thinking? Or are they just following the law and the law is way too forgiving of mentally ill parents?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Or overly accommodating to mothers, which wouldn't be, I guess, a huge surprise. It's like that in a lot of places. This is really just madness. These judges are culpable in the kids' abuse. That's my opinion. So, we wanted to share your story with an actual expert, so we reached out to attorney and friend of the show, Corbin Payne. Corbin was as shocked by your story as we were.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
He said that this kind of thing could happen in the US. He's seen some things, obviously. But while our country also highly prioritizes parental rights, we also have it clearly established that these rights can be overridden by safety concerns for the child. The courts are supposed to document these things, make official legal findings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
If the court finds multiple instances of a parent abusing and or subjecting their children to dependency and neglect, the courts are supposed to take that into consideration. It doesn't always happen that way. Of course, courts aren't the best always at listening to the non-problem parent or the evidence, but Corbyn said it happens a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the sanitizing hand wipe handed to you as you take your seat in this first class cabin of life drama, Gabriel Mizrahi. By the way, I love how it's now our job to clean our seats on an airplane after you pay like... What do you mean?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Now, an important caveat here, Corbyn knows nothing about Norwegian law, but he did offer a few ideas from our legal system that might give you some new inspiration. It goes without saying, these absolutely 100% need to be run by a real Norwegian lawyer or legal expert before attempting. You know the spiel, Corbyn's a lawyer, not your lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
You have to do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show, and anything Corbyn shares is general and informational in nature, it is not legal advice. So. Korbin's first idea, he would explore whether Norwegian law allows for supervised visitation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
That means the court appoints a supervisor and that person would have the legal obligation to monitor the visits and act if things get out of hand. They'd also have the authority to remove your son from his mother's care if things get dangerous. In certain instances, a supervisor terminating a visit can also trigger a reset to lower levels of visitation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Der Supervisor in unserem Land, und das ist ein bisschen seltsam, aber es könnte ein Freund sein, es könnte ein Familienmitglied sein, es könnte auch ein professionell bezahlter Supervisor sein. Es würde mich nicht überraschen, in Norwegen, wenn du einen Service hast, der das tut. Zweitens, Corbyn würde sehen, ob es möglich ist, Bedingungen auf jeden Besuch zu stellen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
He shared a story from his own experience with us. Some time back, Corbin worked on a case where a dad got custody of his kids from their mother after she had a mental health episode. She was apparently a good mother when she was stable, but she absolutely lost it. And the team was able to determine that she'd had a breakdown in her teens and again in her late 20s.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And both times it took her about eight months to get back on her feet once she started therapy and got on her meds. So they started off with supervised visitation and escalated slowly over time to give her more visits with the kids as she proved herself responsible. They also had some conditions, that she meet weekly with her therapist, take her medication, stuff like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
If she missed any of these conditions, then they went back to square one automatically and started all over again. Corbin said they had a bumpy start with a couple of resets early on, but she had her kids back about 13 months later and she seems to be doing well. So, Corbin is not suggesting that you can magically cure your ex by putting conditions around therapy and meds.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Your ex is clearly a very complex and tragic case. But he did wonder if the courts would be willing to order her to take some of these steps over, say, a six-month period and send her back to square one if she fails. That might be one way to protect your son in the short term and also keep responsible adults looking over her shoulder.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich meine, Alter, wenn sie die nächsten zwei oder drei Jahre vor dem gleichen Gericht zurückgeht, jedes paar Monate, weil sie ihre Scheiße nicht zusammenbringen kann, wer weiß, das könnte den Gericht genug frustrieren, um etwas mehr permanent zu machen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Corbyn wollte auch wissen, hast du einen eigenen Experten engagiert, der kann kommen und eine Meinung geben, dass dein Ex immer wieder verlapsen wird, egal was? Wenn sie einen Experten bringt, der bereit ist zu sagen, oh, sie ist gerettet, sie ist in Ordnung, dann scheint es mir zu sein, dass du einen Experten haben musst, der sagt, hey, das ist nicht der Fall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und ich weiß, das wird eine Ausgabe sein, aber es könnte nicht so teuer sein, wie du denkst. Oder wer weiß, vielleicht kann dein Arbeiter einen Vorteil holen oder der Staat eine neue Evaluation von einem anderen Psychiater anrufen, der eine mehr objektive Meinung geben kann oder so etwas. Ich meine, wie viele Schrecken kriegst du da drüben, um Gottes willen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
No, first of all, I don't think so. I've never seen anyone not use it for the seat and tray table. I assume the reason it's massive and not a little one is because they want you to clean the seat. Like, oh, I just paid six grand for this flight, but by all means, put me to work while I'm here. I got nothing else to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Corbyns einzige Kaviar hier war, dass man vorsichtig ist, weil es möglicherweise Regeln in Bezug auf Confidentialität in Jugendlichen-Fällen gibt. Es können auch Regeln sein, dass man nicht öffentlich einen Co-Parent kritisieren kann. Das ist etwas, was dein Lehrer anrufen kann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Agreed, but can confirm, sometimes these organizations Trojan horse in some really weird mindsets and beliefs into a philosophy that is otherwise attractive and helpful. I don't want to say, I don't want to say like culty, but you can go in thinking like, oh, it's a support group. And then dot, dot, dot, three years later, you're like... All women this, men going their own way, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Get started today at simplisafe.com slash jordan for 50% off your new system with professional monitoring and your first month free. Okay, next up. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. We have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. Former cult members, astronauts, cold case homicide investigators, Russian spies. This week we had Richard Reeves, president of the American Institute for Boys and Men, on the struggles that men are having these days.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Das heißt, sie ist traurig, wenn sie in die Therapie geht, dass sie nicht ein Polizist werden kann. Das scheint es zu sein, was er sagt, was nicht unbedingt wahr ist, aus meinem Verständnis. oder irgendeine andere Bedingung, wo man nicht institutionalisiert ist, wahrscheinlich nicht aufstehen wird. Und ich glaube nicht, dass Polizei-Departementen Medikamente von Kandidaten anbieten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich bin mir nicht sicher. Ich glaube nicht, dass sie das ermöglichen. Aber sie machen обычно Kandidaten eine Psycho-Evaluierung, sodass irgendwelche Probleme der Psychiaterin während des Interviews visibel sein können.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Für mich, Mann, muss ich sagen, wenn du von der Polizei-Departementen nicht qualifiziert bist, weil du ein Krankheitsproblem hast, vielleicht solltest du von der Polizei-Departementen nicht qualifiziert sein, weil du ein Krankheitsproblem hast. Das könnte ein kontroverses Ausdruck sein, aber ich weiß nicht, Mann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ja, das ist eine lustige Art, es zu sagen. Er bedeutet, dass sie ein bisschen delusional darüber ist, vielleicht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Das ist der Vibe, den ich bekomme. Es ist ein einfacher Weg, einfach zu sagen, ja, nein, das ist nicht eine Option für mich.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I know a lot of people are probably going to say, what are you talking about? What about women? Turns out there's a massive gender gap. It's just actually the other way around. Hey Leute, ich bin dieses Sommer verheiratet und bin überrascht darüber. Ich liebe meine Freundin sehr und während unsere Beziehung weit von perfekt ist, sind wir aus unseren Schwierigkeiten stärker als vorher.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Man, this is a tough one. I really feel for all of you here. I'm sorry that your daughter struggles in some big ways, that she's clinging to the family nest. I'm sorry that you and your wife feel stuck and that you don't have a way of really talking to her about this. So just to state the obvious here, your daughter has some very challenging mental health stuff, perhaps debilitating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And my heart goes out to her for that. It really does. It also sounds like she's failed to individuate. And that's a real issue. Now, whether the OCD, the hoarding, the emotional stuff, whether that's caused her to stay at home and keep her life small, or whether failing to separate in a healthy way is contributing to all that, that's an interesting question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I'm guessing it's kind of a feedback loop. It also sounds, and look, man, I say this with love, that you and your wife have in some ways participated in this dynamic with your daughter. You've helped create the conditions for her to not have to separate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Like you said, by not encouraging her to live on campus, for example, by allowing her to stay home for another five years, by cramping around certain topics when she doesn't want to talk about them, like therapy, by having these nightly unloading sessions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yes, it is fascinating. Look, on the one hand, it's sweet, right? They're close. She opens up to her parents. There's a real bond there. I'm glad she has them, at least. On the other hand, this nightly routine raises a lot of alarm bells for me. It does for me as well. I'm hearing a grown woman who's relying emotionally on her parents way too much. She's dumping on them a lot and more and more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
How did he put it? Nightly she sits at the end of their bed and she just emotes. Emotes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
It is. And again, I have compassion for their daughter because she's clearly struggling. She's very isolated. She doesn't have any friends. Her parents are her whole world, her parents and her cat. But this is something you kind of might expect from like a 15-jährige Mädchen? Nicht mal. Viele 15-jährige Mädchen wollen nicht so viel mit ihren Eltern sprechen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich stelle mir nur vor, dass Mutter und Vater sich gegen die Pillow sitzen in unheimlichem Gelächter, während ihre Tochter einen 90-Minuten-Rant macht, wie traurig sie ist, über ihren Boss am Arbeitstag, wie süß ihre Katze ist, welches Steroid der Katze für sein IBS ist oder was auch immer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und sie denken einfach nur, Mann, das ist schlecht, aber wir können nicht darüber sprechen, was hier wirklich los ist. Schau, ich meine nicht, dass ich hier nichts davon sage. Das sind alles legitime Dinge, über die man sprechen muss. Sie verdient offensichtlich Unterstützung.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Aber wenn du 27 Jahre alt bist und du machst das mit deinen Eltern jeden Abend für eine Weile, und sie ist deutlich traurig, das ist nicht das Leben, das sie will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ihr seid auch hier versteckt. Die Sache ist, dass deine Tochter das sehr schwierig macht. Sie schlägt auf Verteidigungen, Smokescreens, wirklich, links und rechts. Du sprichst über die Entfernung und sie ist so, oh, das ist mein sauberer Raum. Ich habe meinen Raum, Fluffy und Trixie sind im Hintergrund gebürtigt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich mache euch eigentlich einen Vorteil, indem ich die Hausaufnahme mache, wenn ihr weg seid. You talk about going to therapy and she says, no way, I want to work for the sheriff's department one day. This is going to ruin my career, which again, not necessarily true, if that even is a real dream of hers. We're not even sure about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Gabe, I'm kind of marveling at all the ways this young woman has found of not having to face her life and not having to work on herself. From the outside, it's so obvious. I just wonder how much she knows the corner that she's backed herself into.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Es ist wahrscheinlich ein bisschen beides, würde ich vorstellen. Aber es ist offensichtlich, dass die Grund, warum sie all das tut, ist, dass sie überrascht ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
They need to stop tap dancing around this. But how do you do that? I feel for these parents, it's a scary conversation to have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Aber es ist nicht so. Ich verstehe es. Es wird ihr schmerzen, sie zu hören, aber sie sind auch schuldig, wenn sie spielen, obwohl ich verstehe, warum sie das machen. Richtig. Nein, absolut. Ich stimme dazu. Meine Angst ist, dass sie sie ermöglichen. Sie haben sie jahrelang ermöglicht. Für Gründe, die ich absolut verstehen kann. Aber fünf Jahre später. Zehn. Sie ist 37.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Sie lebt immer noch in ihrem Kindertagesstatt, weil der Kühlschrank immer gestockt ist. Und sie will nicht mehr als zehn Yarden von dort leben wollen, wo ihr Kindertagesstatt geboren ist. An welchem Punkt wird das regressiert? Und ist es ehrlich gesagt tragisch? Weil ich mich fürchte, dass das, wo es geht. Also kommt diese Konversation in einem oder anderen Weg.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I thought it was telling when he said, it definitely pulls on my heart when she cries and I realized that we're not only her parents, but the closest thing she has to friends. That is objectively sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Whoever's doing the tugging, it almost doesn't matter. What matters is, can you guys allow yourselves to be sad, anxious, scared, whatever your daughter brings up for you, in order to help her grow? And my sense is that right now they can't actually do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Das ist im Grunde die Botschaft. Aber dann ist die Frage, was passiert, wenn sie sich nicht engagieren lässt? Weil ich könnte sehen, dass ihre Tochter einen Schmerz darüber hat, oder sie sie auslässt, oder sie sich in ihrem Kindheitsabstand lockt und für eine Woche nicht rauskommt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Right. And if she throws up the usual smoke screens, you got to have some responses ready. Maybe you tell her that talking to a therapist won't disqualify her from a career in law enforcement, not on its own anyway. And if she's like, I'm not going to therapy, I'm not that bad. Maybe say, honey, I think you're struggling in some profound ways. And that's okay. We understand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
But it's very clear to us that you're dodging this because it's scary or embarrassing or just too overwhelming. And maybe you literally ask her, how do you want to handle all of this? Do you want to handle this? How do you see your life unfolding from here on out? Because I'm not sure this is it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, the reality where she's not doing a total 180 and throwing herself into getting better, but they're no longer colluding with her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
At which point they might need to consider taking a stronger tack here. I do think there's a timeline where they lovingly push their daughter out of the nest. If six months go by, a year and nothing has changed, I think there's a point where they're allowed to say, hey, look, honey, we love you, but it's time for both of us
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Let's find you an apartment, let's find you a therapist and a psychiatrist, let's see what it's like for you to become a little more independent. And maybe she takes to that, maybe she doesn't, but that's not on you. She's 27 years old.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
This might be a situation where she's mad at you for a while and then one day she wakes up in her own apartment and feeds her cat and looks around and goes, oh, got it, I'm responsible for me. Wenn ich Freunde haben will, muss ich daran arbeiten. Wenn ich eine Karriere wechseln will, muss ich mich auf meine mentale Gesundheit konzentrieren. Ich muss anfangen, an Arbeit zu arbeiten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und das könnte der Anfang eines sehr tiefen Prozesses für sie sein. Und um klar zu sein, sage ich nicht, dass Sie sich nicht direkt auf sie aussteigen sollten. Ich denke, es ist eigentlich wichtig, dass sie sich liebt und unterstützt fühlt, auch wenn Sie ihr ein paar schwierige Nachrichten geben. Ich möchte nur, dass Sie sehen, dass Ihr Lieben hier ein paar verschiedene Formen nehmen kann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Liebe ist nicht nur, wenn Sie auf dem Bett sitzen, während Ihr Kind sich emotiert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Sometimes love means being firm, saying the uncomfortable thing, appropriately holding your child's feet to the fire, staying connected with them even when they're angry at you, and if you're unsuccessful, remembering that you and your wife are adults too with your own goals and needs, and at her age, you're allowed to factor in your own interests too.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
What the, that's psycho. That's not what I expected at all. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Let's not lose sight of the fact that your marriage is now suffering as a result of all this, which is an equally important symptom here, and something that you and your wife need to acknowledge as well. So, I wish you and your wife the courage to have these conversations with your daughter and I hope your daughter taps into her own courage and vulnerability to take it all in.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
This won't be easy, but it is obviously very necessary and it could be one of the best things to ever happen to all of you. And good luck. You can reach us friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
If your friend violated their professional ethics by having an affair with an unstable patient, a skeezy businessman might be using the church next to your house to engage in human trafficking, or your 105-year-old great aunt has been hidden away by a dodgy family member. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. And by the way, it doesn't have to be nearly as crazy as all that stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
We like the boring questions too. Air quotes boring. Hi Gabe and Jordan. My fiance and I have been friends with another couple for approximately two years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Okay, that's concerning. You're making me do math. I don't like it. Alright, how old was Mark when she was 14? So he's 9 years older, so he was 23 when she was 14. That's gross. Flying across the world to meet up with a 14-year-old girl you met online. That dude is lucky Chris Hansen wasn't waiting for him like, why don't you have a seat over there? This is bad. That is creepy illegal behavior.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ja, okay. So it sounds like Homeland Security agreed that this was creepy too and they were like, hey, go back to Amsterdam, bro.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Okay, just to state the obvious, even if that's true, that doesn't make it okay. He's the adult, she was a child, she can't consent, she can't make moves on you. End of story. But man, it's so interesting that Mia pushes back on this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
So either she genuinely does not experience this as problematic, which this is creepy whether she feels it was or not, or she knows it was dodgy and she's just doubling down because she doesn't want to face it or get him into trouble.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
This is uncomfortable. So, Mark almost certainly groomed Mia when she was 14. I honestly can't imagine another explanation if they met online and he flew out to visit her at that age. It's not like they just happened to meet through mutual friends or family or whatever and then years later they took their relationship in a different direction. This is not Celine Dion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Right, and her husband, although I don't know all the details there, so maybe it is. Although even that would raise eyebrows for me. This is very sus. And the fact that they told you guys a different version of events at first, and that Mark got deported? Come on! It tells me they know this all sounds so bad. In fact, it probably was.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
But as you're finding out, I'm not exactly sure what you're supposed to do about it. Mia ist jetzt ein Junge, legal gesagt. Sie will mit diesem Mann sein. Sie wird vielleicht von all dem verletzt. Wir wissen nicht, was ihr Erfahrung ist, was ihr in der Hand habt. Aber auf einem Niveau will sie mit diesem Mann bleiben, jetzt, dass sie 21 ist. Und ich denke nicht, dass jemand sie stoppen kann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Was die Freundschaft mit ihnen betrifft, wenn du wirklich Sorgen hast über Mark, basierend auf dem, was er mit Mia damals tat, oder wie er sich jetzt verhält, And that doesn't feel like something you guys can talk about openly if you're not getting any indication that this is something he's worked through or is open to discussing with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And if that doesn't sit well with you, which it clearly doesn't, I would not stay in this friendship just because you don't have any other couples to hang out with. I hear you that it's hard to make couple friends, but it is not impossible. And I personally would not remain friends with a probable child predator just because it's slim pickings out there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Besonders, weil ich nicht den Sinn bekomme, dass du und deine Freundin mit Marc und Mia Kopf über Hüllen sind. Vielleicht bist du es und du hast das einfach nicht in deinem Brief eingefügt. Es ist nicht so, als ob ihr ein Familie seid und ihr eine Art von Beziehung mit ihnen haben müsst und alles herausfinden müsst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich höre nicht, dass Marc dieses wirklich tolle Freund ist, der dieses wunderschöne Ding vor einem langen Zeitpunkt gemacht hat. Oder dass Mia dein bester Freund ist. Es klingt so, als ob du ihn nehmen oder verlassen könntest. Und wenn das der Fall ist, dann hast du zwei Gründe, diese Freundschaft zu wiederholen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ja, aber dann, wenn sie nicht mehr darüber öffnet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Exactly. I think that's what this letter is about too. Not just what to do about Mark and Mia, but really how they choose their friends, what they look for in people. Welche Beziehungen sie haben wollen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Mein Gefühl ist, wenn du Zeit mit Leuten spielst, weil du fühlst, dass du nicht besser tun kannst, oder weil es zu schwer ist, andere Freunde zu machen, oder du willst, dass ein weiteres Paar Wein trinken und Karten gegen die Menschheit spielen, das ist nicht der beste Grund, nahe zu bleiben. Das könnte ein Zeichen sein, dass es Zeit ist, sich auszudrücken.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Investiere in ein paar Hobbys, Gemeinschaften, die dich mit anderen Menschen in Kontakt bringen. Und vielleicht brauchen sie nicht andere Paare. Vielleicht ist das ein weiteres Kriterium, das du anschaust. Vielleicht verpasst du andere tolle Freunde, die Single sind. Etwas anderes zu überlegen. Was Marc und Mia angeht, ist es deine Entscheidung, ob du mit ihnen nahe bleiben willst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich höre nicht, dass es etwas super kompensierendes über sie gibt. Ich höre, dass es eine potenziell sehr schreckliche Sache über sie gibt. Although how worrisome, it's a complicated question. I think that comes down to how Mark and Mia make sense of this unusual part of their story and how they share it with other people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Look, even if you pull away, I would definitely try to keep the door open to Mia. Because if she ever decides that she needs a friend to talk to, I'd love for her to be able to reach out. I mean, she might eventually realize how weird this all is and have to process it. And you don't want her to be alone for that. Weird story. I hope Mia's okay. And good luck.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
You know what you won't get deported for putting your hands on? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Bis zum nächsten Mal.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools, nearby parks, transportation options.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in-depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in-depth information, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 So if you've ever wondered why everything feels like a never-ending crisis and you want to hear smart people actually explain it, check out the Disorder Podcast, available wherever you're listening now.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Damn, that is a lot to happen all at once. Jeez, living a double life for a year and a half? Crazy. I could never handle the stress of this. I'll never understand these guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
They've got to be wired in such a way where they just don't care. They just don't care about getting caught. Because I would be nervous the whole time. I would preclude any enjoyment I would get out of something weird like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und deine Familie und deine Kinder. Ich meine, ja.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Oh my God. This is terrifying. So this guy's legitimately out of his mind and dangerous. Legitimately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Alright, pause. That is a lot to handle, my friend. I'm tempted to say maybe a little too much. But anyway, I'm so glad you're looking at how you've been handling all this, carving out time for yourself. I'm glad we could play a role in that. Therapy is so key, especially when your life is as full as yours and brings up a lot of intense feelings. So I'm proud of you for that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Man, what a challenging co-parent. Bob sounds like a tricky person, to put it lightly. I'm sorry he lied to you when you were together, that he's been hurtful in all these ways. I'm also sorry that he hasn't been the most loving father to Jane, although I also hear you that he probably does love her. He just might not know how to show that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And if he's actually a narcissist, he has all kinds of other mental issues that he's dealing with. It's a challenging situation all around. I'm not sure there's a perfect answer here. So look, I share your view that Jane is old enough now to start asserting herself more and deciding where she spends her time. She's 15, she's very mature.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I absolutely agree she should have a say in how often she sees her dad and what the rules are when she's at his house. But my fear is that if you guys ignore the custody agreement, Bob is going to make things really difficult for you. You said, again, he's a narcissist, he's controlling, he's been aggressive and abusive in court. I said he's a tricky person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
It really sounds like he's a trashy a-hole. And I'm going to imagine that he's going to do all this stuff all over again, just to make your life harder. He has no problem hurting your daughter to get to you also. And now, look, it might be harder for him to drag you back to court, given that you guys live in different states. The court system, at least here in California, is pretty backed up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Who knows, it could be months, a year or more before you finally get a date. In the meantime, Jane could enjoy more freedom and pursue all these awesome things that she wants to do. And when you guys do have that hearing, Jane will be 16. Even older, even more equipped to advocate for herself. That could help.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
But that doesn't mean you won't face legal consequences for violating a custody agreement. See, you do have to consider the cost. My understanding is that could include fines, loss of custody rights, being required to attend counseling or parenting classes in extreme cases could result in jail time, although I think that's probably very unlikely. So this is a very real risk here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
On the other hand, my understanding is that the court tries to prioritize the child's best interest in these hearings. They often take a child's wishes into account, especially when that child is 15, 16 years old. So, if they hear from you and Bob and maybe even Jane, they might modify the custody arrangement, reduce Bob's visitation time, give Jane more of a say in all this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Now, that probably means you're going to need to hire a lawyer. And I know you said you can't afford it right now. I also don't know if you can avoid it. Not if you plan to deliberately ignore the custody agreement and definitely not if you plan to actively revisit it. My feeling there is you just have to find a way to pay for an attorney. Period. It might not be as expensive as you think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
The heavy lifting of the custody order is already done. I wonder if a lawyer might help you modify it or plan ahead for not a huge amount of money. And if you need to do a GoFundMe or ask for family support, I think it's worth it. There are also pro bono, low cost, sliding scale legal services out there and I would definitely look into that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
At a minimum, I would book a consultation with a family attorney and talk to them about your options. fragt sie, was passieren würde, wenn ihr die Verabschiedung verabschiedet hättet, fragt sie, wie lange es dauern würde, um sie zu modifizieren, wie viel die Präferenzen von Jane in der Entscheidung des Gerichts spielen würden.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich würde keine großen Entscheidungen wie diese ohne die Begründung eines Juristen machen. Du hast aber auch andere Möglichkeiten. Du könntest mit Jane arbeiten, um ihren Vater zu erinnern, wie viel Zeit er mit ihr braucht, wie er sie behandelt, wenn sie da ist, was er ihr ermöglicht, zu tun. Maybe there's no reasonable conversation to be had with Bob.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Maybe that's why you feel your only choice is just to ignore the custody agreement. But if Jane sits down with him, looks him in the eye, this super mature, thoughtful, driven 15-year-old person, and she's like, Dad, I'm glad we have a relationship. I appreciate that you want to spend time with me. I know our situation is complicated, but I also have some big goals that I want to achieve.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und ich denke, dass das von ihr zu hören, anstatt von dir, mehr beeindruckend wäre. Obwohl, ihr könnt euch beide entweder kämpfen, wer weiß. Aber es ist wert, und vielleicht versucht sie es zuerst, und dann rufst du sie an und backst sie langsam zurück, damit er weiß, dass es nicht nur du bist, die Stränge ziehst und Wörter in ihr Mund nimmst.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Obwohl, ich weiß, dass ich einfach nur Wörter in ihr Mund nimmte, indem ich dir das Skript gegeben habe. Aber, weißt du, wir geben dir ein bisschen Sprache, mit der du arbeiten kannst. Der Punkt ist, dass das von Jane kommt, in ihren eigenen Worten, basierend auf dem, was sie wirklich will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Agreed all around. So no, you're not crazy for wanting to allow Jane to choose how much time she spends with her dad. Any rational healthy parent would start to listen to a mature 15-year-old's wishes, but that doesn't mean there aren't some good reasons to stick with the court order, even if it's doing some harm, but that's why you guys need to get creative and explore every other option here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Talk to a lawyer. I would also run all of this by your therapist, see what they say. They might have some great ideas for how to help Jane cope with her dad, assert herself. They might also know certain things about how much you can push the law and definitely keep going to therapy. It sounds like a really important space for you personally in all of this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Sie mussten sie wählen, nicht wahr? Sie waren nicht nur Verbrecher, die in der Haustür wanderten und sich herumschlugten. Ich glaube, sie ging zum Krankenhaus.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, at least he didn't give him a rifle. This is so tense. This is like a John Wayne movie or something like, howdy partner, I come in peace. Here's the finest hat west of the Mississippi. As you can tell, I've never seen a John Wayne movie. Or at least the finest hat I could find on Etsy. Yes, exactly. I kindly ask you to take me off your little hit list there, friendo.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, good point. I'm sure this responsibility thing comes from a good place, but even she knows that it might be a bit of a fatal flaw, which again is why I'm glad that you're talking about it. Whatever you do, make sure it's in service of empowering Jane and setting her up for as much success as possible. She sounds like an extraordinary kid. She's going places.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
She deserves as many advantages and as much love as possible. sending you guys a big hug and wishing you all the best. It's concerning Gabriel. I get it, he's controlling, he doesn't let her go out at night. Maybe he's a product of his environment when he was growing up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Not wanting her to do extra school online from home, something about that sits very poorly with me because the disadvantages are none and the advantages are she gets ahead in her education and it's like, okay, now I'm not convinced that you have your daughter's best wishes in mind at all. I feel like you just want to say no to things.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that whole thing just does not sit right with me. It would be different if she wanted to go away to camp for two out of the two and a half months. Okay, then you're not gonna see your dad. But if my kid says, hey, I gotta spend three or four hours a day on the iPad doing homework, I'm thrilled that I have a go-getter kid, not whining about how you're not paying attention to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
He maybe really is like an actual narcissist to the point where he's only looking at what she does for him and her source of narcissistic supply for her dad, which is not a good situation for a child to be in. At all. Alright, time for the recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
In case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific things here on the show, like you want to tell Gabriel to stop recommending Netflix series that are 12 hours long and recommend more 20 minute films. I can get behind that. I will upvote that. You can find that on Reddit in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, Gabe, it's like, I'm like, hey, buy this UV detector to keep from getting a sunburn. And you're like, watch 27 hours about the history of Japanese flower arranging on Netflix. And I'm just like, okay, just buy the UV thing.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Right, exactly. You know what this reminds me of, Gabe? You remember Billy Madison? This is more my speed. John Wayne, eh, Billy Madison. There's this scene where Adam Sandler calls Steve Buscemi to apologize for bullying him in high school. And he's like, hey man, I just did a lot of things that weren't funny. And Steve Buscemi's like, oh, yeah, no problem. All good. Just super chill about it.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Are you single and unemployed? Take Gabriel's recommendations and binge all of those things. You have nothing else to do. You know what?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I think they have the time. Are erotic novels that long? I mean, get to the point, for God's sake. Jeez, maybe that's what I'm doing wrong. Well, when I narrate them, they will be. Alright, speaking of narration, what's next out of the mailbag?
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Oh Mann, ich bin so entschuldigt, Freund. Das ist wirklich schrecklich. 31 Jahre alt. Drei Monate nach der Verheiratung? Das ist so schrecklich, Mann.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I get that. What could be more normal? I'd feel the same way.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And then once they hang up, the camera zooms out and you see this paper taped to the wall that says people to kill and he just crosses Billy Madison's name off the list and applies lipstick and lays down on the couch.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Like I said, I'm so very sorry that you had to say goodbye to Raquel. Losing a best friend, especially so young, especially after fighting a battle like that, after her wedding. Just devastating. There's no other word for it. What you're going through right now, what her husband must be going through, that poor guy. Es ist extrem intensiv. Und es könnte für eine Weile intensiv sein.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Also, ehrlich gesagt, es macht Sinn, dass du dich verdrängt fühlst. Es macht Sinn, dass du versuchst, dich zu konzentrieren, Arbeit zu finden, die furchtbar und unbedeutend ist. Das sind alle klassische Symptome von Schmerzen. Und du fühlst dich bereits demoralisiert, bevor all das passiert. Also, mein erster Gedanke für dich, und ich weiß, dass das offensichtlich klingt, aber es ist wichtig, ist,
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Gib dir ein bisschen Gnade hier und sei aufmerksam. Du bist in einer Rolle, die viele von dir benötigt. Du sagst, du hast nicht viel Unterstützung, dass du versetzt bist, zu verlieren, und jetzt gräbst du einen riesigen Verlust darunter. Und ich denke, jede Arbeit wird wahrscheinlich ziemlich unbedeutend fühlen, im Hinblick auf das, was du gerade durchgeführt hast.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And I would argue that it should feel a little meaningless in a way, because one of the functions of loss is to remind us what really matters. And 90% of the stuff we have to deal with in this modern world just does not matter. It matters in terms of getting a paycheck and keeping a roof over your head, sure, but it doesn't matter philosophically or existentially.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I'm sure Raquel's death is bringing up a lot of things for you. One of them might be a new awareness of how precious life is, how nothing is guaranteed, which in a way that's terrifying. And in a way, right, it's beautiful, it's profound. Grief brings a certain clarity to certain things. And that clarity is a gift. It can be really enlivening.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Es kann auch sehr frustrierend und bedrohlich fühlen, wenn es sich gegen eine To-Do-Liste befindet, die eine Weile lang ist, oder eine dumme 45-minütige Abendbranche.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und das ist Teil des Prozesses des Heilens von Schmerzen, den Fuß in diese beiden Realitäten zu halten, dass so viel unserer Leben trivial und verrückt ist und dass wir diese Dinge kümmern müssen und zu einem gewissen Grad zusammen spielen.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und in der Zeit, als der Schmerz sich beendet, verspreche ich dir, dass es einfacher wird, diese beiden Perspektiven zu integrieren, in die beiden Halben der Leben zu teilnehmen, But that's going to take a little time. And you just have to kind of allow that process to unfold on its own.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
But on a practical level, yeah, you got to give yourself permission to feel the waves of morning when they come on, or just that persistent, low-grade meh feeling. Also, you have to accept that work's just going to feel different for a while. You might perform differently for a while, and that is normal.
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1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And in two, five, ten years, whatever the minutiae of what you're dealing with at work right now, you probably won't even remember them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
For sure, I like that. I think it's smart to keep the conversation focused on solutions rather than your emotions and feelings. Because even though your feelings are legit, it can be hard for a company to make exceptions based on them. And it's your job to take care of yourself. But performance, productivity, effectiveness, that's a language your boss definitely speaks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I would also find ways to create a few habits and systems that will allow you to do your job well, even when you don't feel emotionally invested. Routines, E-Mail-Templates, Stand-Up-Meetings, Shortcuts, tägliche Check-Ins mit Leuten, kleine Arbeits-Sprints, die du mit dir machst, diese Dinge machen wirklich einen Job viel mehr nützlich, auch wenn du nicht eine Verletzung verweist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und ich finde auch, dass es einfacher ist, die Architektur eines Jobs, diese Routines, die Systeme und Vermutungen zu servicen, wenn die Substanz nicht viel für dich macht. Durch die Unwahrheit zu steuern, das ist schwer, aber wenn du nur das System fährst, sage ich nicht, dass es super erfüllend sein wird, aber es kann nützlich sein,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Und es kann dich von einem bestimmten Niveau der Leistung verhindern, was wichtig ist. Auf eine Relativnote, wenn es schwierig ist, investiert zu werden in das, was du tust, finde ich es hilfreich, sich auf wirklich kleine Dinge zu konzentrieren. Also, was ist eine Sache, die du heute gut tun könntest? Was ist eine Art, wie du dein Leben morgen einfacher machen könntest?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Eine Konversation, die etwas vorwärts bewegen wird. You'll be amazed by what a handful of just tiny wins can do for you. They really will keep you in the game. And while you do that, I'd keep looking for jobs. I'd keep scheduling conversations. It can take a while to find a job you're really excited about. So you have to play the long game. You got to keep applying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
You got to keep doing the six-minute networking stuff. Keep looking for opportunities to connect with people in your industry. Just keep putting dots on the board and you can connect them backward later on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I'm just picturing you talking to crazy cousin off the ledge by handing him a Kay Bonito hat. Like, hey man, chill bro, it's just vibes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, good point. This might be a parallel process, but also it might not be, and that's okay. But whatever you do, invite the grief in. There are no shortcuts here. This phase you're in at work, whether you stay or Bis dahin, das Beste, was du tun kannst, ist, intensiv zu sein.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Über deine Schmerzen, über das, was du von deinem Boss brauchst, über die Art und Weise, wie du deine Zeit verwendest, welche Art von Arbeit du für die nächste suchst. Und wie gesagt, das ist das eine große Geschenk eines so großen Verlustes. Es hat wirklich eine Art und Weise, uns zu erinnern, was wichtig ist. Also nimm dir diese Zeit, um klar zu werden, was das für dich bedeutet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Sprich darüber mit Freunden, mit einem Therapeuten, mit der Familie, schreibe darüber, was auch immer das aussieht. Ich verspreche dir, dass es alle anfängt, Sinn zu machen. Hang in there, my friend. We're sending you a huge hug, thinking about Raquel, and we're rooting for you as you chart your next move. Go back and check out Richard Reeves, as well as our Skeptical Sunday on Bananas.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I mentioned it before, I'll say it again, 6minutenetworking.com. It is a relationship development course. It takes a few minutes a day. Bis zum nächsten Mal. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sadlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Just a thought. Yes, the hat is lined with lithium that is transdermal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Our advice and opinions are our own, and I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. Du wirst ein Vorlesung des Jordan-Harbinger-Shows hören, über das, wie hormonale Erkrankung eine Frau als Persönlichkeit beeinflusst und sogar beeinflusst, wen sie als Partner wählt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
To hear more from Dr. Sarah Hill about the problems with taking birth control, check out Episode 280 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Das war's für heute. Bis zum nächsten Mal. That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the US, so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take. Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Like the one he attacked with a chainsaw? Yeah, I might skip their house at Christmas.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Wenn Steve in einem Psych-Wing gehört. Gabe, I have to assume that Steve is seriously traumatized, maybe by his father holding him and his family at gunpoint when they were kids? I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer Gabriel Mizrahi. Old Fifty Shades of Gabe over here. Nice. I like that one. Not that you don't know what that's a reference to, but maybe you don't know why I'm saying it now. I don't actually. What is this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
So Grandpa, his dad, was out of his tree. This kind of violence leaves a real mark. Maybe Steve has some mental illness apart from that, because it sounds like Bob is relatively normal, maybe, but their father clearly did a number on them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
He does have a bitchin' new hat, that's true. So things aren't all bad. The chainsaw, though, that worries me a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I mean, look, we're having a laugh, but this is actually quite terrifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
I'm pretty stunned that the police were not called after he attacked that kid in the neighborhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, super weird that he attacked my son with a chainsaw. Man, somebody should do something about that guy. But, you know, it's lunchtime and they're probably not going to answer the phone. I mean, how do you not immediately dial 911 and have this person? He didn't have a good hat. He didn't have a hat. He didn't have a hat. I'm really at a loss here. Like, okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
The family is obviously protecting him. She did say that Steve is the reason the parents are still able to live at home, which, okay, I'm happy for them. I'm glad he's good for something. But he's also kicking his dog. He's going after children in the neighborhood with a chainsaw. He's barricading himself in the house with an arsenal of guns.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
He's threatening to kill multiple people, including his nephew. Because he makes too much money, which is totally ridiculous. Understatement. Is it really worth protecting that guy so Meemaw and Pop Pop don't have to eat frickin' mashed potatoes in a nursing home? I don't think so, Bob. I don't think so.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
So, look, just to cut to the chase, if it's true that you wouldn't trust Steve around your dogs, you absolutely should not trust him around your children. End of story. The guy's mentally ill and dangerous. He's untreated. He's unstable. He has weapons in the house. He has a kill list. Your fiancé was on it. Why? Again, because he makes too money and he doesn't spend time with me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
The guy is a lunatic, okay? If I had a family member like this, I would never go over there. It's too risky. You don't owe this person anything. This is somebody you notify the police about. In fact, if I was your fiancé, I would do just that. Not just for your benefit, but for all the other people and animals this guy might hurt. He could have killed that kid. Easily. It's a miracle he didn't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And what if he had? A child would be seriously injured or dead or maimed. He'd be in prison probably.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Now, I know things have cooled down a bit, the cowboy hat did the trick, but that doesn't mean Steve's not going to have another episode, isn't going to come up with some new imagined grievance, or wake up one day and decide that he's mad you guys didn't visit him on Easter, or that you're making too much money again. This could happen without you guys even knowing it. That's the thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
So, a bunch of people in the subreddit are like, oh, Gabe should narrate erotic novels. Oh, okay, got it. Yeah, it's something to consider if the whole podcasting thing doesn't work out. You know, it's hard to make a living podcasting. I'm gonna add that to my LinkedIn. Looking for work, just not specified. W-E-R-K. That's right. I don't even know why it's funny to say W-E-R-K, but it just is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
You're lucky you knew about the kill list at all. The next time you just might not. And you might find out when you walk in the door and get shotgun blasted by this psychopath. So yeah, I'm pretty adamant about this. That house is not safe for you. It's not safe for your fiancé. It's certainly not safe for your future children. Even if it is, it's not even worth the risk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Why would you roll the dice on this? And if that ruffles some feathers in your fiancé's family, tough Kischka. This is so beyond the pale. It's insane that you're even debating whether to go over there. I mean, Dark Jordan's just like, burn the house down.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Das ist wie, er ist immer, fast immer schlecht, oder er ist manniglich hoch und glücklich, weil wir ihn gebraucht haben. Oh, und auch abusiv Großvater ist dort mit einem Haus voll von Waffen. Wo ist der Vorteil?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ich bin nur... Gut, aber wenn das die einzige Grund ist, warum sie da sind, dann ist das noch weniger Grund, sich riskieren zu lassen. Es gibt keinen Vorteil. Also, ich bin nicht sicher, ob ich zufrieden bin, dass du die gesamte Familie auslösen musst, wenn du nicht mehr da bist. Du kannst vielleicht nicht so viel Zeit mit dem Großvater haben, wenn Steve immer noch da ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Obwohl, warum du so viel Zeit mit dem Mann, der seine Familie an der Anlage hielt, sparen würdest, ist mir unklar. Vielleicht verpassen wir etwas. Obwohl die ganze Familie stark hinter Steve ist, was sie vielleicht sind. Vielleicht ist das der Grund, warum niemand die Polizisten anruft oder hier interveniert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Aber ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass jemand in der richtigen Meinung auf Team Steve wäre. Also sehe ich nicht, warum du sie alle auslösen müsstest. You can still have dinner with these grandparents at a restaurant. You can invite them over to your house. Just make sure you install a metal detector at the front door. You can plan get-togethers without Steve.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
And if everyone is on Team Steve, if you can't stay away from them without alienating everyone else, again, I am not sure that that's such a big loss. If your entire family is lunatics that don't find this to be problematic, then they are also lunatics who are problematic. That's my take. Maybe your fiance's family handles things differently.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Maybe they have a higher threshold for violence and dysfunction. I don't think you should though, especially not if you become a parent.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ja, das ist eine gute Idee. Hoffentlich hat diese Person eine objektive Meinung. Wenn sie die Familie kennt oder sie in der Gemeinschaft involviert ist, könnte das sie ein bisschen kritisieren. Aber ehrlich gesagt, ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass irgendein Konseln wert ihres Salzes künftig Eltern beurteilen würde, ein Kind in so einem Umfeld zu bringen. Stay away. That's my advice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
You have so little to gain by having contact with any of these people and so much to lose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
That's right. Just to stay alive. Take care of yourselves. Stay strapped. Now I'm going to take a chainsaw to the prices on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Bis zum nächsten Mal. I highly recommend BetterHelp. It is completely online. You don't have to worry about commuting, sitting in waiting rooms, dealing with the hassle of finding the right fit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
With over 30,000 licensed therapists covering a ton of different specialties, you can be sure to find somebody who actually gets you. And if it's not the right match, you can switch therapists anytime, no extra cost.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Whether you're dealing with stress, relationships, career struggles, or just trying to be the best version of yourself, therapy is one of the most valuable investments that you can make. And with BetterHelp, it's more accessible and convenient than ever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Everybody knows what I mean. Everybody knows. I don't understand. Everybody knows but me, and I'm the one that said it. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
We find it honestly hard to believe that it even happened to us. And I think a lot of us don't think that something like this would ever happen. We live in one of those safe neighborhoods, the kind of place you don't worry about security beyond locking the doors at night.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
If you haven't heard, a few weeks ago, three masked intruders shattered that illusion literally by kicking in the glass door of the room I was in, trying to force their way into the house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
So glad that we had SimpliSafe installed because in the chaos of me screaming for Jen to call the police and rushing these guys like some sort of psychopathic bear, she couldn't find her phone, but she remembered that we had panic buttons installed around the house. She hit one, instantly sirens blaring, emergency response dispatched. The guys took off. We were left shaken, obviously, but safe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You also have the option, and this is something I talk to the lawyer about, you have the option of getting a restraining order or a peace bond order. Now, is this lady going to honor that? Probably not. But the benefit is if she harasses your parents after they get one of these, they get to call the police and say, we have a restraining order or a peace bond against this woman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
She just verbally attacked us on our way into the house. She's shining a light through our window. She's banging on our door, whatever it is. And that'll A,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
probably make them come out to the house sooner and b if she's in violation of these court orders they might be able to arrest her right then and there especially if it's all on camera the problem there is she'll probably be out in a day or two and then she'll be back home and then she's going to be really pissed but she's going to be pissed at like the cia that's coming after her but she might know that they called i don't know she might but you know what that's the calculation
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
My hope is that if the cops arrest her for violating a court order, they'll see how sick she is, they'll take her to the psych ward. So it's a gamble, but it could work out even if you have to have her arrested a few times.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I had the same thought. She's posting pictures of your family, their addresses, vaguely threatening comments. That is crucial to document as well. And I talked to the lawyer about how to file a formal complaint with the police about that specifically. And I'd ask them how to make the best possible case that it violates the letter of the harassment laws in Canada. So the cops take it seriously.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Also, gonna dip my toe in the dark Jordan waters here. This is ethically dicey, okay, which is every dark Jordan pitch, but you guys might be able to sue her for defamation, and she might not be able to mount a defense in her condition. Now, somebody like this, they're probably judgment-proof, aka they have no money to pay you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But if your parents win a case against her and she doesn't pay up and she defaults or doesn't show up to court or shows up and starts talking about the CIA or the NSA spying on her, maybe they get a lien against her home and dot, dot, dot, failing to pay a debt on a lien could lead to a forced sale of her home to satisfy the lien. Now, that's a messy and complicated process.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And it is cruel because you're throwing a woman out of her home when she can't defend herself. But look, it's an option, at least here in the States. Not sure about Canada. Again, I can't say I endorse this, But it is an option. This woman is terrorizing your whole neighborhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's not just about parenting gamers. Really interesting show, as was our first round. That guy just has a ton of wisdom to share. Smart dude and great at delivering it. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and just generally fancy ourselves the first responders of the advice world. That's not inflated at all, is it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I hear that. I also think it might motivate you guys to keep calling the authorities because this woman is suffering.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
To be clear, for when they go to sleep, they definitely shouldn't be wearing earplugs when they walk from their car to the front door. Honestly, their situational awareness needs to be high when they're outside because who knows what this woman is going to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Not narcissistic, even in the least. All right. Before we kick off, I want to share an exercise. that I've been doing when I'm facing a big problem. And it may be a problem that I can't really wrap my mind around.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Your parents might also want to change their routine to minimize contact if that's an option. Like, can they walk a different route to the door? Can you go out the back and walk around this other side of the house? Can you leave at times when she's not watching? Stuff like that. And I hate that I'm recommending this because this woman is just making everybody crazier.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I had the same thought. I'm generally not a fan of litigation unless absolutely necessary. But in this case, yeah, it's kind of warranted because the previous owner did something pretty damn unethical in not disclosing this neighbor. And I kind of want her to pay for that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Whenever I'm dealing with something super tricky, something that bothers me and I'm not sure why, I write down maybe a page, maybe even two pages of all the reasons I don't like it, all the different aspects of the problem, why it's such a problem in the first place, everything it's bringing up for me, all the ripple effects and implications of the situation. Really anything that comes up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I know. It's like, what would I do?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's like she might have called a lawyer and been like, so do I have to say anything? And the lawyer's like, well, in theory, yes, but only if yada, yada, yada. And she's like, I'm rolling the dice. I can't take it anymore.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It sucks to think that one person should just have to suffer or eat the cost on a house because the cops won't do anything about the loony tune next door that's flashing her neighbor screaming and smoking pot and yelling at your 80-year-old dad. But how can you in good conscience... Sell a house next to a psychotic person to a couple of nice people in their 80s. That does not seem right to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You want a buyer who's like 30? Like five dudes, right? Who are just like, ah, yeah, there's a crazy lady next door, but who cares? Turn the music up. And the price of the house should be discounted, really, to account for the fact that there's a crazy person next door. If it wasn't, in my view, those are the damages that you sue for. Like, hey, my enjoyment's been limited. I need 30 grand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The psychotic discount?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
We could. It's an interesting ethical dilemma. But here's my Dark Jordan fantasy. Your parents sue the previous owner. They get some damages or they get a settlement, even if it's a small one. They use that money to move to a new house to cover the capital gains and land transfer taxes, again, with the money that they got from the settlement.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Unfortunately, that could take a year or two, could be longer, but it is a possibility. And sadly, it might be the only way to get some peace here. It's just another thing I'd talk to a lawyer about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Man, now I'm feeling for the previous owner because I'm fully on our friend's side here. I just want her parents to ditch this house and live in peace. So I really can relate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Pretty sure this is the plot of 80% of horror movies involving a family in a house. There's always that scene where they start investigating and realize the previous owners dealt with the same thing and no one told them like, oh yeah, we left because of all the people that come out of the closet at night.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yes. Well, mandatory.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And I think a lot of people do this, they journal or something like that. I usually do this on the computer. But I delete all but the two or three sentences that capture the real problem or some of my main concerns. You might end up with a couple paragraphs and then you weed those down. Now I know it sounds super obvious. Like I said, it's basically journaling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But I also think you guys need to be creative here and stay open to all the possibilities because there might be a world where your parents need to sell the house and move as stressful and as exhausting as that is. Or maybe they spend a couple nights a week at your house. That way they can get some peace and quiet, enjoy some quality time with your daughter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And if you aren't willing to at least consider those solutions, they might stay stuck in a disturbing situation. You could also Airbnb the house, rent it out to somebody else. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Yeah. You might end up with a couple.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Exactly. Nods coming back. Loved the pool. Didn't love the prison spotlight coming into the bedroom at 3 a.m. Friendly neighbor. Talked about the CIA's mind control experiments for six hours in the driveway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Oh no, it's much worse than that. Anyway, look, it's not fair whatsoever, but it is what's happening. And again, I'm so deeply sorry this is happening to you guys. Watching Gabe go through this, it gave me so much compassion for anyone living next to a seriously mentally ill person. Gabe, you were kind of a zombie for six months or whatever it was, and you're only 80 years old in your soul.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So I can't even imagine what the writer's poor parents must be going through right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I really hope you guys catch a break soon. Sending you and your family a huge hug and wishing you all the best. You know what else is batshit crazy? The psycho deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. It is your support of our advertisers and sponsors that keeps the lights on around here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the podcast are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Jeez, overachiever much? You sound like a rock star. Congrats. Yeah, I just do triple backflips after running 12 miles a day, then singing acapella mashups of Neil Diamond and Flo Rida.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But there's something about having permission to go a little nuts, be neurotic and anxious and messy on the page, And then you just literally start crossing out or deleting all the superfluous noise around the problem, and you boil it down to its essence. And once I have those two or three sentences, I might jot down a few bullet points for each that would meaningfully address the problem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Literally, yeah. His resume is making me feel so lazy. Seriously.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This is so bizarre. So this teacher she's overstepping, it sounds like. There need to be better boundaries here. Just wait.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I don't like where this is going.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Get sued by whoever that is, Nate Dogg. I was on the fence between that and Hot for Teacher by Van Halen, throwing that in the old sample bucket, but that seemed even more inappropriate than making a bunch of teenage boys strip down for no reason in her foyer. Okay. So this is officially super weird and gross.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
First of all, going to your teacher's house when it's not some kind of school-sanctioned event with lots of people, the whole class, whatever, it's just not appropriate. It's super sus. Second, having your teacher make you undress in front of her when you definitely don't need to do that at her house? This is textbook creepiness. It's almost certainly a fireable offense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I am just gobsmacked that she did this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? Good reminder that both genders are capable of terrible stuff. There's something legitimately wrong with this woman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Meaning she's doing this to other kids?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Gabe, I'm tempted to make a joke about him banging his teacher, but I'm realizing that part of the problem here is that we tend to not take stuff like this as seriously when it's a female teacher and a male student. And I know that's not OK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And bam, I've got an action plan. I feel way less overwhelmed and freaked out by the whole thing. And I wanted to share that with you guys. Not the most original, maybe, but it was definitely... something that changed the worrying game for me. So give it a go and see if it helps you. I have a feeling it will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, the double standard is disturbing and very interesting. That was like my gut reaction was like, ah, and who knows? Maybe that's also informing how our friend here feels about whether to report this. There might be some desensitization or stigma around stuff like this for men. Okay, I'm a little stunned over here. First of all, to state the obvious, what your teacher is doing is not okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's oversteppy. It's inappropriate. It's unboundaried at best. At worst, it's legitimately creepy and predatory. And again, doing the whole like, what if this was a male teacher doing it to female students? It would, of course, be creepy and predatory. One hundred percent. Hey, girls, can you try on new swimsuits in my garage? That's just you're going to jail, hopefully, for something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Now, we obviously don't know this woman. We don't know what her intentions are, what her moral compass is like, whether she's actually being pervy with you guys or she just has no sense of what's appropriate and inappropriate as a teacher. But it almost doesn't matter to me because she's an adult. You guys are minors. She's a teacher. She knows the law. She knows the rules, or she should.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And I cannot imagine a universe where a teacher has a good reason to invite a handful of her students to her house to try on new outfits in front of her. This is just patently inappropriate and gross. And how it made you feel? Uncomfortable, like it crossed a line. You said it was a wake-up call. That's absolutely a normal response to something like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And I think it's kind of all the data you need to know that something wasn't right about that situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Right. It sounds like there's a pattern of this behavior. It's getting worse. So my strong feeling is that you need to report her. And here's how I do it. First, I'd get together with your friends, inquire anyone who's had contact with her, create a shared document, document every concerning interaction or experience you've had with this teacher up till now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Again, this is best suited for tricky problems where you're like, I can't put my finger on why this is so bad or why this is so annoying or why this is keeping me up at night. If you fully understand a problem, I don't know how much more fully understanding it you need to do. You got to brainstorm solutions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This is one of those best for nebulous problems, emotional type stuff, situations with a lot of moving parts. But yeah, this one's a winner. As always, we've got some fun questions. We've got some doozies. Let's dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Okay, sorry to jump in again, Gabe, but I just got to say, all of these details are really painting a picture of a person who's unstable, impulsive, which means she probably has some serious mental health and or addiction stuff going on. You know how hard it is to evict somebody? You have to try pretty hard to get evicted twice in two years. It's tough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Right. I'm furious with this woman, but I also have to acknowledge that she must be suffering. A mood disorder, personality disorder might just be a generally chaotic way of going through life, but something is wrong here. But it's her responsibility to address that, to talk to somebody, to go on meds, ask for guidance, whatever it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
As long as she's not even bothering to do any of that, this is ultimately her fault slash responsibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
What a mess. Yeah, what a story. First of all, I'm very sorry that your ex is handling her life this way, that she's treating you so poorly, that she's exposed your kids to all this chaos, this danger. It all seems so avoidable. If she'd just look at what she's doing and get some help. I'm really straddling my anger and my compassion when it comes to her. We gotta make room for both.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Something I'm trying to work on, if you can't tell. My knee-jerk response to stories like this are to just get mad at the obviously dysfunctional a-hole partner. But doing this show, I think I talked about this on our end-of-year episode, It's really making me realize why we have to make room for more than just one story at a time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That he worked too much when they were married to provide for them. Look, we don't know every detail, but even if he did play a role in her struggles, at what point do you stop blaming your ex and dragging him on Facebook and go, OK, that's I gotta own my piece of this now. I gotta take care of my life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Even if he were somehow a crappy husband, which it doesn't sound like he was terrible, I just can't imagine a narrative that would justify her behavior at this point. So you're asking a really good question. Do you finally hold her accountable or do you withdraw the claim to not add to her hardships and preserve your relationship? And I'm not sure there's one right answer
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But here's what I'm thinking. First of all, based on what you've shared, it sounds like you are well within your rights to ask her for child support, both on a purely financial level and given how she's treated you. At the same time, I think you need to parse your motivations for enforcing this child support order because there's a lot going on here. Part of it's the money, sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You pay for everything for your kids. You cover debts of hers that you're not even, of course, at all responsible for. She's not responding to that with even basic courtesy. So again, just on a financial level, it does sound appropriate, going after the cash. But I'm sure there's another part of this child support order that's informed by your anger, your very warranted and very appropriate anger,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
and might even be a form of revenge or comeuppance, which I can also totally understand and relate to. Fine, you want to treat me this way? You want to push me to my limit? Here's what you get. Sucks to suck. Like you said, enough is enough. But I also think there's more for you to know about that impulse to hit back at her. Not because it's undeserved. I think it's largely deserved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
but because it might be designed to make you feel better, to give you a sense of justice and a sense of control, and to punch back after being beaten up by this gal for so long. And in the end, it's possible that it won't make you feel much better. In fact, it might make you feel worse. It already is because of your guilt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And when you couple that with the fact that she's struggling so much financially, which means in all likelihood she won't even be able to pay you this child support, she can't even pay her rent in low-income housing. She's basically homeless. On a practical level, this child support order becomes even less useful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's kind of a symbolic screw you as opposed to an arrangement that would make life easier for you and your kids. Plus, like you pointed out, it'll probably just give her more ammunition to blame you for her problems and to poison the well with your kids and for zero benefit financially. I don't know, Gabe. I'm torn here. I'm of two minds.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think I would go after it and then just maybe, I don't know, give her some of the money back if I felt guilty. But still, it comes to me. I don't know. On one hand, she's acted egregiously. She should objectively contribute to helping their kids. I don't think he has any reason to feel guilty about that, given the facts here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
On the other hand, she probably can't even comply with this child support order and it might just degrade whatever relationship they do have even further, if there is one. So like, I don't know, which one's more important?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Exactly. My hunch is it's the latter. I also wonder if he might have felt a version of this guilt when they were together and he's been protecting her and enabling her in various little ways the entire time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That is so disturbing and also just irritating, man. So they have their very own Josh situation, huh, Gabe?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I hear that. But honestly, if it's me, I'm taking her to the f***ing cleaners. I don't care if she's homeless.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But that's her fault. Child support notwithstanding, that's all her fault.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That her life is a mess?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Totally. So what does he do about it? Because if I'm him, I'm just walking around freaking furious at her for the rest of my life, and that sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's funny you mentioned channeling your rage into work and the gym. It's like, how'd you gain 25 pounds of lean muscle over the last 18 months? And why do you spike the TPS reports to the manager's basket? Wham! Let me tell you a little tale called Sucks to Suck. Sucks to Suck. Wham! Look, Tom, we appreciate your hard work, but... You don't need to dunk on everyone in the office.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
We're all in the same team here. This is the fifth Keurig machine we've had to replace this month. Yeah. You push the lever down. You don't have to use your hammer fist on it. I guess I'm realizing that a lot of this job is it's really just bearing this anger. All jokes aside, because she's probably going to continue acting this way and continuing to provoke him. And he ultimately can't fix her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
In a way, people like this, triggering other people's rage is all they have because the rest of their life is completely out of control, right? It's like, oh, I can always get a rise out of my ex-husband. So the answer might just be letting the feelings be and increasing your capacity to tolerate them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Ultimately, Gabe, it sounds like his revenge is handled because he's a solid dad and her life just sucks. It sucks, everything about it sucks. All that said, I do sincerely hope that your ex finds a way to take care of herself better, and if there's anything you can do to gently nudge her in that direction without enabling her, if she's willing to hear that stuff from you or whatever, I would.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Do that for her if you can. Again, I'm not getting the vibe that she even wants advice or help from you other than the occasional bailout check, but if there's a window, I would take it. Who knows with somebody like this? I'm very sorry you and your kids are going through all this. You guys don't deserve any of it, but it is an interesting opportunity to learn how to work with a tough situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Sending you guys a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what else sucks to suck? Missing out on the crazy good deals on the fine products and services that support this show. That one got stuck in my craw if you couldn't tell. We'll be right back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. The AI chatbot also on the website can surface codes for you.
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And if that doesn't work, email me. I'll dig up the code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This is a good question. I love that you want to work on this. I also love that you're pushing for the best possible salary, even at this level. It's like my friend Ramit Sethi says. He's another great negotiation expert I would follow. He's been on the show a bunch of times. You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So yes, from what I can tell, it's common for entry-level or part-time roles to not do formal written offers, especially in industries where turnover is high, the roles are more transactional, retail, food service, internships, jobs like that. Those positions often use verbal agreements or informal emails to talk about salary. But does that make negotiation harder? Maybe not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Alex Kutz, who's a great negotiation teacher, big fan of his, He approaches negotiation as a conversation, ideally one based on empathy, mutual respect, collaboration. Yeah, a formal offer letter might help. It might give you something concrete to respond to, but not having one doesn't mean you can't negotiate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
In fact, I might argue that informal discussions can be more helpful in some ways because nothing is set in stone yet. The offer isn't boilerplate. It might be somewhat flexible. So if a manager calls you and goes, all right, we want to hire you, $25 an hour.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
there's nothing stopping you from going, hey, great, thank you, I think I'm worth 30, and I'm gonna work my butt off for you, and here's a bunch of reasons how I'm gonna do that. What do you say? Whereas if they send you a formal job offer that's a copy-paste from HR that says 25 bucks an hour, that might just be what they offer everyone, and that's that, and there's no flexibility at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So yes, I'd adjust your strategy a little, but mostly I'd revisit this assumption that entry-level jobs are trickier, that informal offers are hard to negotiate. I'd adjust that assumption and give it a go, Beyond that, I do have a few tips that I've learned from Alex and Ramit, and just from experimenting myself over the years. First, you can negotiate more than just salary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
If an employer is firm on pay, you can pivot to other things. Flexible hours, so for example, you could change your schedule during final exams or whatever. You could push for remote work options if that even applies in your case. You can ask for professional development opportunities if they exist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Really. I would be losing my mind if I had a neighbor like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You can request a performance review sooner so you can try to negotiate your salary up after proving yourself, stuff like that. Also, if negotiations are happening during the interview, then you have to show up to these conversations prepared with the number you want and with market data to back it up. you could literally say in the room, okay, 25 an hour, right, I hear that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Based on my research or based on my experience, a competitive rate for this role would actually be around $30 an hour. What do you think? How flexible are you on that? Be respectful, but be confident. A big part of negotiation is just getting comfortable owning and standing by your value.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's framing your counter with logic, not emotion, and backing it up with the specific value you can bring to the role. So instead of being like, but I'm a college student. I can't survive on 25 bucks an hour, which they don't care. I'd say something like, look, I'm great with customers. I learn fast. I can tackle XYZ projects for you immediately with ABC results.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I feel, based on this, that 30 is fair and reflects what I can offer you. Of course, that assumes you know what you can uniquely offer and that has to align with what they actually need, which is crucial. That's part of your prep too. Look up briefcase technique. We'll link to it in the show notes. I think I've talked about it on the show before as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You basically roll in and solve a problem for the employer and they're like, I can't afford not to hire this guy at the rate he's brought up. And if getting a written offer would help you, you can always ask for it. Maybe you send him an email saying, hey, great to meet you today. Thank you for the offer. Could you send the details over in writing so I can review it and get back to you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Totally fair. My last thought, just a timeless negotiation technique. You always have to be ready to walk away. If you're not getting the salary you want and the salary you want is attainable, sometimes saying no is the best move. It might shock an employer into giving you the salary you want if they really like you. It might also free you up to keep looking until you get the number you want.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Either way, having options gives you leverage. Also, if you have another offer for, say, $30, they have to match it or beat it, or they have to give you something valuable to make up for it, like they cover your lunch every day or whatever. And don't forget to think about this as practice. All of this is practice. You're learning by doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Negotiation is about having confidence, and confidence only comes from asking for what you want and standing by it, which you can only really learn by doing. I'm not sure how much this offer thing is really an obstacle, but if it is an obstacle, it just means you need to be more prepared and more creative.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And you might have to, in the end, settle for a salary you don't love for this period of your life. You're a college student. That's somewhat normal. It doesn't mean you can't get in there and crush it and then get that number up in a few months. I'd always keep trying to perform better and earn more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You do this enough times, you build a great reputation, you'll be amazed at what you can earn in just a few years. You got this. Good luck. And now for the recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is the Fidelity debit card. No ATM fees globally. The interest rate in the cash management accounts, it's something like a high yield savings account rather than a checking account, which most ATM cards are attached to. Those are like 0%. And I think I'm getting somewhere between four and five or maybe even higher. It depends on the interest rate. It fluctuates, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Also, Fidelity has great customer service, especially compared to retail banks where you're stuck talking to an automated system. And if you get a human, they're like looking at the same website as you are. It's infuriating. Debit cards are usually crap across the board. They don't pay you interest on the money in the account. They charge you fees to use it. Not good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This one actually offers some solid benefits. Interest rates, good customer service. They reimburse the ATM fees. Even if you get money out of a machine that charges you six bucks, they just refund it to you. We're going to link to this card in the show notes. I hope it's a helpful one for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I found this because I was so sick of the retail banks that I use offering me just terrible options unless I had a ton of money in there and then the options were mediocre. I looked at Fidelity and immediately was like, oh, this is a real debit card for somebody who is not going to get taken advantage of by the McDonald's of banks, which is every retail bank.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Also, in case you all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. A lot of fun discussions going on in there. Just look for the Jordan Harbinger subreddit if you're a Redditor. Okay, next up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Ooh, okay, that could come in handy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, maybe. And if so, you should thank yourself for staying safe. You never know what people like this are capable of, especially lowlifes. I mean, these are scammers who knows if they're like, and if she just says we can't take it, just pistol whipper. Right. You don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I don't know. I'm sure that played a big role. You're overwhelmed, you're distracted, you're maybe in some pain still, you're sleep deprived. You're definitely not at 100%. You're vulnerable. You gotta have some compassion for yourself here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Wow, that is amazing. So cool. You never hear of that happening, really. Yeah, very rarely. Great job. That is a happy ending. Man, that must feel great. I hope they nabbed the scumbags hard for this, although I don't know how you trace something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
They just got the stuff. Yeah, but what a bunch of asshats.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Gabe, I'm curious, when the cops seize fenced goods from a pawn shop, does the pawn shop just have to eat the cost of that? I don't know how that works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It does. Yeah, because they can't ask everybody who walks in to prove ownership before they accept stuff. Hey, this has been in my family for 100 years. Okay, show me the receipt. Although I have to imagine that a huge amount of pawn shop business, especially in dodgy areas, it has to be stolen goods. Yeah, it has to be. So again, I'm very sorry this happened to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It is awful to be scammed, even when the stakes are relatively low, even when you end up being made whole. I'm also sorry this happened right after you had a baby. Like I said, it's a vulnerable time already. So to be taken advantage of on top of it, I'm sure that made all of this feel even worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Also, as a parent, I know the last thing you want to think about the world after you have a child is that the world is full of bad people or that you are somehow a bad parent for not clocking people like this before they could scam you. So I'm sure there's a lot going on for you in all of this. It's a really interesting question. Why do we feel guilty and ashamed when we're victims?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The criminals are the ones who should feel guilty and ashamed. Victims should just feel sad and angry. But we hear from scam victims fairly often, and they all describe the same thing. I shared this several months back. Even I was a victim of a scam recently.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It was a small-time Facebook advertising scam that locked me out of my account for the show for a little while, and I had some of the same feelings myself. Because, oh, I'm savvy, I talk about this stuff, and I still ended up installing something that looked like it was from Facebook and wasn't, and it was clearly a hole in Facebook security, but still, I felt dumb for falling for it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I think what happens is, first of all, when we get scammed or targeted, we tend to ask ourselves what we could have done differently. And that's appropriate to some degree, because we obviously need to understand what role we played in a situation, own that, and figure out how to prevent it from happening again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But I think we often go a few steps further and blame ourselves entirely for what happened, or we turn our anger at the scammer against ourselves for some reason, and then that turns into guilt and shame. So that's one thing I think we need to parse, how to take the appropriate accountability without entirely self-blaming. The other thing that happens is getting scammed. It's a blow to your ego.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It reveals where we are vulnerable. It reveals our mistakes. We feel dumb. We feel naive. We know we're supposed to be better than this, right? But here we are down, I don't know, whatever, 20 grand or five grand in photography equipment, being sextorted on Instagram, whatever it is, realizing we let a couple of two-bit criminals in our living room, whatever it is,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That can be a big blow to how we view ourselves or how we like to view ourselves. And that can create a lot of shame too for not being as savvy or powerful or cautious as we wish slash thought we were.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, totally. The control piece is huge, I think. And look, some of this shame might be somewhat adaptive. It might be helpful to feel a certain degree of shame just enough so that we're motivated to learn and get better. Those people who are always falling for scams, they've been falling for scams for 20 years, they probably don't have this reaction.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that is so uncool. Man, I mean, I guess if I were in her shoes, I'd be trying to get out of there too, but that's, oof, that sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
When they fall for a scam, they're just like, oh, and then they just go give their money to another psychic or another get-rich-quick MLM. Yeah, like maybe you should be a little ashamed. Maybe that would help. Maybe a little bit of, gee, I thought I was better than this, would have helped you avoid doing this for another decade.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So the motivation part is there, but that's different from being so embarrassed that you can't leave the house, you won't talk to anyone anymore. Then there's something that needs to get worked through. The only antidote is to own the shame, talk about it with a few people,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Allow yourself to fully confront the vulnerabilities that the scam exposed, which you're doing beautifully already, and then to take steps to protect yourself and do things differently next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Shame tends to thrive in secrecy, in unresolved tensions between different parts of ourselves, in stuff we don't want to face, but it has a hard time surviving in whatever is owned and acknowledged openly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's like the shame is a kind of reagent in the chemical reaction of growth or something. It has to be in the mix. A lot of victims also feel like they're going to be judged for what happened to them. That's a part of it. They're worried about what their friends and family will think, especially if the scam is perceived as embarrassing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Gabe, I'm thinking about that guy who wrote in a few months back. I think he lost 19 grand in Bitcoin from a pop-up on a porn website. It's like, I may want to leave that detail out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, look, I get it. There might be some people out there who do judge. I can imagine if I lost 40 grand on a Bitcoin scam and I told my dad, he'd be like, oh, that's what you get. But I think if people haven't been scammed themselves, they do that. But mostly, I think we project onto other people the self-blame and the self-judgment that we feel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
We assume we're going to find it in other people, and that perpetuates the shame.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, or who are forced to by a really scary world. I keep having to remind myself of that going back to the interview I did with Nathan Paul Southern and Lindsay Kennedy on cyber slavery. It's basically how a lot of online scammers are actually slaves, literally, in these massive call center operations. That was episode 833, by the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
My initial instinct is to always rage at these creepy scam texts we all get, but then I remember they might very well be refugees from Burma or Thailand or whatever, being held hostage literally somewhere in Laos or Burma. It's horrifying to think about. That obviously doesn't apply to our friend here. It's just something to keep in mind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Another reason that victims feel guilty is they often put their families and themselves at risk. And this one I understand the most. If you lose a significant amount of money that you or your children need, or you create a ton of work and headache for your family in trying to recover, I get that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
If I lost my kid's college fund to some Bitcoin scammer, or I couldn't pay the mortgage because I was sick-storted or something, I would feel pretty guilty too, even though it's largely not these victims' fault.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Look, we're always prepared for these scams. After they're over. Right, like that guy who got scammed by a locksmith a few weeks ago, he described the exact same thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
100%.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So look, that's the psychology of being a scam victim, as far as I understand it. But on a practical note, from now on, definitely meet any Facebook marketplace or Craigslist customers out on the sidewalk or even down on the corner of your block or ideally in a public place, never in your house. One huge lesson you can take away from all this. I'm glad this came at a relatively low cost.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I'm glad you and your family are all okay, and congrats on the baby. Go back and check out Dr. Allo Konoja if you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. The course is free.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I don't need your credit card number. I don't care about any of that. It's not gross or schmoozy. It's on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. A few people told me that questions had been turned off in there. That was a setting that got changed without my knowing it. So if you have questions, you can ask them in the course. We get to those pretty quickly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And the drills in the course take a few minutes a day. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. You can find it all at 6minutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show about junk science.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
If you want to increase your scientific literacy and not get suckered into believing weaponized hogwash and passing it off to your friends and family as fact, check out Episode 745 with Dave Farina on The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that sucks. My parents just moved. It was really hard for them and hard on them. So I don't blame you. I know exactly what you're talking about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the soothing red fire retardant helping me douse the flames of these apocalyptic dumpster fires, Gabriel Mizrahi. Ooh, we don't use the R word anymore, bud. Ooh, my bad. The soothing crimson fire retardant helping me douse the flames of these apocalyptic dumpster fires. That's better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Oh boy, what an awful situation. I am so sorry that your parents are dealing with this. After hearing what Gabe went through with his schizophrenic neighbor a few years ago, I really do feel for you. Having to deal with somebody like this is super stressful. It's also deeply tragic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You know, not the vibe you want around your home, especially when you're in your 70s and 80s and you just want to enjoy life, kick it with your grandkid. This is so sad. I also feel badly for this woman. I know she's clearly suffering.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think it's unconscionable that other people just have to suck it up and deal with a psychotic person who's ruining their life, especially if that person is self-medicating and making things worse for herself and everyone else. But I do genuinely have compassion for these folks. They're obviously unwell. They desperately need help and their system fails them constantly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So ideally, any interventions you guys pursue will give your parents some peace and get her the help that she needs and deserves. Gabe, you're our resident psychotic neighbor expert. You want to take the lead here?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This is the part where I usually make a tasteless plug for SimpliSafe, but that's obviously unnecessary today and I won't do that. I'm glad your parents are already on this, although they might want to go a little further and install a true home security system like SimpliSafe, simplisafe.com slash Jordan. Oh, there it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But yeah, motion sensor lights, sturdy locks, and alarm on all their doors and windows just in case might put everyone at ease and help them gather more evidence. I'm not worried about this woman breaking in, but if you can get her on camera doing something, ooh, that's good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Good catch, Gabe. You got to keep a PC out here. I'd be canceled already if it weren't for you. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And by the way, I know that sounds like a ton of work, but after the first report, you guys all have a template for this thing. You can literally copy and paste, make a Google doc with this, right? Change the date, change two or three sentences about what she did at that time. And you're done. Could take 10 minutes. Adobe PDF editor finally coming in handy, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The thing you bought a license for 13 years ago. That's what this is going to help with. Really, when you have a stack of these and copies of your own, you're starting to build a case again. this person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Oh, she said the neighbors across the street said she's never gone on quite this long before. Is that an indication?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
There was a comment in the subreddit today about how you expand people's vocabulary with this show. Criterion being... The singular of criteria and decompensating. People should go ahead and write that down. We'll wait for you. It's just the singular. Yeah. Is the bar getting lower? I mean, I don't think a lot of people know that datum and data. I would never say datum ever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from former cult members and arms dealers, rocket scientists and astronauts. This week, we had part two of my interview with Dr. Alok Kanoja, author of How to Raise a Healthy Gamer. We discussed mental illness, confidence, dating, culture, and communication. It's not just for gamers.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
criterion and criteria. First of all, I've heard people say criteria. So the bar is that low. Yes. Does not work for me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Criteria is just one of the criterias.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Alright, now we're going to come out of the closet with some scandalously good deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. All of the advertisers' deals and discount codes are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Alright, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up, Gabe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Okay, she does obviously remember that you asked. Come on. But she's chalking this up to what? Indecision? This doesn't add up. Doesn't make sense. Sounds to me like she's not really taking in your offer slash she deliberately told her friends that she was getting zero help so that she could get sympathy from them. Like, wah, no one's helping me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, war correspondents, neuroscientists, rocket scientists, a lot of scientists, astronauts, cold case homicide investigators. This week, we had former ATF agent Jay Dobbins back on the show. You guys loved my last interview with him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's super annoying, and that's the real problem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, surprise, surprise. All right, let's hear it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That is also a move. My goodness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
What on earth? This is so obviously transparently deliberate. Oh, my God. Okay, first of all, so she plans her wedding in another city or another country when her own sister-in-law is also getting married at the same time. Of course, there's probably a ton of overlap between those guest lists. This is so bizarre, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Look, we're going to find out who likes us more and then we're going to cut the other people out of our lives and complain about them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, this is so strange. I'm almost having trouble believing somebody would do that. But of course, Chelsea did. Also, hiring our friend here's husband's ex to do her hair. That means she wanted there to be some kind of drama between her hairstylist and a guest at the wedding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
OK, but then she didn't take the free hairstyling from the cousin that offered it. She had to pick that one hairstyle. Come on, man. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's a destination wedding, though. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. The only perfect ballerina bun in their town? I doubt it. So she'd rather spend more money to create an awkward situation than have her cousin who's a professional do it for free. Maybe I'm stuck on the money thing, but none of this makes sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
More volumes than her hair on that day, yes. Well, depending on who did the hair, but yeah. Depends on who did the hair. That's right. Every ounce of my being is going, this person is a nightmare, but I know I should hold off until you finish reading because it probably gets worse. God knows what else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But it's good to know because it's not just you, which is somehow better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
There was so much more to talk about because I actually ended it early because it was like the Perfect ending rarely comes along in an interview. And I was like, I can't go past this point. So I decided to do another round with him, round two. Once again, there was so much to talk about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
unfortunately that's almost certainly true whenever i notice people do something like that especially gossip i always try to make a mental note of it jen's really big on this they'd probably spill the tea about me if they had some juicy goss not to feed your paranoia but i think it's smart to clock that like i said jen's always whenever anybody says something negative about somebody if it not maybe not just one thing but like a pattern of this jen's always like don't say anything to this person that's important because they always they're a shit talker and they're going to talk about you
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you there. You've been making it largely about her for a long time based on what you've shared. You're a nice person. I appreciate that about you. You don't want to kick someone when they're down, etc. Maybe you haven't been making it about you enough. But look, I'm going to hold off. You're nicer than me, etc., etc.,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
No, I think it's a fairly large Australian termite mound. You know, those ones that are like six and a half feet tall or whatever. Strong metaphor. Yeah. Yeah, extreme. Wow. So when you started off, you said that Chelsea had a devastating miscarriage. She was depressed for a year. Look, I was fully on her side when you said that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
This poor woman. I've had friends who go through that. They don't leave their apartment for four months. I mean, it's bad news. It's sad. That's a really painful thing to go through. We don't know the circumstances. We don't know how far along she was. We don't know what she was going through leading up to the miscarriage. I'm curious about all that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But losing a pregnancy is an objectively horrible thing to go through. It can be quite traumatic. I really do feel for her there. But then you started talking about how she's handled this whole baby shower thing. And I was like, OK, I know you went through something awful. Things are looking good now. None of that explains this behavior.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
We talked about the specifics of his undercover operation to take down the Hells Angels biker gang, among other operations and stories from his career. Just a great storyteller and done a lot to fight crime. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, and generally stroll through the brambles and thickets in this spooky forest of WTF.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And then you shared all the wedding stuff, the fact that she bullied your sister to the point where your sister's like, I'm drawing up the hard line. I'm not talking to her again. That also damaged your sister's relationship with your brother.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah. OK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That is a good point. It's not like she was an angel before and then she went through this loss and it did a number on her mental health and she has unresolved trauma and now she's acting out. She honestly just sounds kind of mean. And then there's this latest drama with her friend who's planning to shower. So my reaction earlier was more or less right, I think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Chelsea is a little bit of a nightmare. Now, look, there are two ways to respond to a person like this. The brutal, obvious one is to go, hey, you're acting like an a-hole. Maybe you are an a-hole. You're selfish, you're mendacious, you're a little nuts, you're driving your friends and family away, you need to take a hard look at yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And then there's the more compassionate lens, which is to say, people don't behave like this unless there's something wrong, they're in pain, they're confused, they're insecure, whatever it is. Obviously both can be true. Me personally, I find it hard to have a lot of empathy for people who act this egregiously. It's so extreme, it lacks self-awareness, it's so un-self-aware and unnecessary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You do this once or twice, I'm in your sister's camp, screw you, I'm done. But I've also learned to make more room over the years for some forgiveness and empathy for these folks, because again, you know, pathological people, they're always kind of messed up underneath. That doesn't mean you have to continue to put up with them, though. It doesn't mean you don't say something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It just means that you can be appropriately judgmental and compassionate at the same time. So to answer your question, no, you're not making a mountain out of a molehill. In fact, I feel like you haven't made this into enough of a mountain, especially since it's coming from somebody in your own family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
okay, fine, she's your sister-in-law, so maybe it's harder to know how much to push back, but still, it's a problem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And you said that it's better for me and our family to just ignore Chelsea's behavior, which is another way of saying that all of you, except your sister, have basically agreed to pretend that this isn't as bad as it is and given her a ton of leeway to be difficult and hurtful and frankly just super irritating. That's right. And I understand that to some degree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
The frustrating thing about personalities like this is they don't have enough self-awareness to realize what they're doing most of the time. They don't have the ability to regulate themselves in a mature adult fashion. So it's on the normal people. It's on us to cramp around them so you can keep things on an even keel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And the problem, as you're finding out, is that only enables these people further because it's so intimidating and awkward to say, hey, you are kind of a problem. You need to hear some things. So they just keep doing what they do with very few consequences until they wake up one day and go, oh crap, why have I driven everyone away?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And by the way, a few weeks back, I recommended chia seed pudding to you guys. It has some protein. It tastes good. It's easy to make. What I didn't tell you when I mentioned it is before I got into this stuff, you know, I've been having my blood work done probably every 10 weeks for the past couple years. And my cholesterol was not good.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And even then, they might not even register that as a problem depending on how severe they are. Some people's narcissism is so great they can't even entertain the idea that they might be the reason people don't want to be around them. They just blame everyone else for one reason or another or it goes through this filter of like, oh, everyone abandons me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And unfortunately, I've known a number of people like this over the years and they never seem to see that they are the common denominator.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Exactly. Her victimhood is making it impossible for her to see her own behavior, which again is super disturbing. Because you have to literally ignore multiple offers in order to preserve the narrative, the story, that no one's there for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yes, and that's why Chelsea is a tough case. I bet we don't even know the half of it. So what is the best way forward? As it relates to the baby shower, I think you have a choice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You either decide that you want to help her friend plan the shower and you let all the crazy roll off your back and you collaborate really well with this other friend who's probably going through a version of what you're going through too. She might be a solid partner to you in all this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You just get through this and then you're done, which will involve cramping around your sister-in-law for just a little while longer. Or you bow out and you say, hey, I'm sorry, you're making it really hard for me to be there for you. And then you have to deal with the implications of that, because, of course, that's going to further her story. Your sister bailed on planning our shower.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You're going to hear that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, man, everybody walking on eggshells. And these days, that's expensive. So... Man, these dad jokes are so dumb. All right. Hitting you in the wallet and the heart. That's right. Yeah. You got to go to Costco. Okay. So he got to get there early. So he's a massive blind spot before they sell out of dad jokes. Or he has a massive blind spot about her because it's his wife.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I would not want to be in this guy's shoes, man. He's having a baby with this person and he's probably like, please let this be the end of this nonsense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
The LDL cholesterol, the bad cholesterol, it went from like 68 to 78, 88, 98, 119. Not good, especially for somebody who doesn't eat a ton of junk at all. That's just a bad trend. And that happened for about a year. And then I threw chia seed pudding in the mix, and I've eaten it pretty much every single day since I had my last blood work, or previous blood work.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Man, I don't see that happening unless our friend talks to her brother directly and tries to help him see all this more clearly. But then it gets messy. Is she overstepping? Is she stirring the pot? How is he going to respond? Maybe he was like, if you're going to be that way, fine. That's not a good sign. Although, if multiple sisters are like your wife is nuts.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
At what point do you have to start listening? Yeah. At what point does he listen? Exactly. So look, one option is when the time is right, maybe after the baby shower, you could sit down with Chelsea and say, look, I know you've had a very intense couple of years, the miscarriage, the baby, planning all these events, super stressful. We all go a little nuts around these events.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm also seeing this and this behavior. And I see this narrative. I see a relationship with my sister falling apart. And I don't think I'd be a good friend or sister-in-law to you if I didn't just tell you that I see you getting in your own way here and pushing away people who genuinely love you, including me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And I know that's going to be scary to say, but that's one way you could begin this conversation. Now, of course, how she'll respond to that, that's a totally different question. But like we always say, how she responds to something like that, that's really going to tell you a lot about whether there's a possibility for a healthy relationship here.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
you might have to risk triggering Chelsea a little bit in order to find out if she's actually somebody that you can be close with. Gabriel, you know, this is weird, right?
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Because your choice is to either play their game forever where you're unhappy with it and they're seemingly unhappy with it, or you just push things to the next level and you find out, is the inevitable conclusion that you're just going to get pissed off at some point and cut me off? Because like, let's skip to that part.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You're ripping off this emotional band-aid. You can either sit there and be delicate around it for years where everybody's annoyed by it, or you can just go for it and see what shakes out. And this does not get easier the longer you play along. Right. Because, you know, when you get like an injury, like a shoulder injury,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And then it's like, oh, your lower back kind of hurts and your bicep hurts and your other arm has this weird thing because there's an imbalance going on. Your whole family is rearranging themselves slowly over time with different people breaking at different points.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
So the sister was already like, I'm out. She's already like the tendon in your elbow that's sore every day. You can't use it because you got to wear a sling because something's going on. You have to eventually heal the injury with surgery, with rehab, whatever it is, because eventually all of the other joints are going to have a problem with this. And that's no way to live. All right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
We went through the one option where you just be a little more direct with it. The other option is to pull away like your sister has and just have less contact with her. No contact. Perfectly legitimate option. I'm sure she'll notice that. You might have to talk about it at some point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And as of my latest blood work, my LDL went from 119 to 78. So I dropped 41 points. I mean, a crazy amount. And that's... I mean, that's like 30% plus drop. And I made basically just that one big change to my diet since my January blood work. The daily chia seed pudding is loaded with soluble fiber, enough for a whole day's RDA in just that one meal. And I wasn't getting enough fiber. That's it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Or you could find some middle ground where you're friendly but not super close, and that allows you to stay connected to your brother, protect yourself from Chelsea at the same time. It's also a fair option. I, as you might guess, think option one is the most authentic and productive approach.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It'll get you closer to a more honest relationship with Chelsea and with yourself, even if that means you guys aren't as close, which I will argue... You're not really close with somebody if they're pulling this crap and you're tolerating it. It's an illusion. It's a mirage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Right. Maybe it's slightly more awkward in the short term and then you just never deal with her again. Cool.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I like that. But I also know that, look, any of these options is going to require a lot of courage and strength on your part. Really.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That's good. Wow, I really like that. Also, it's going to be really hard for her brother to be like, you never do anything for her when you just threw the world's greatest baby shower and everyone saw it because they were there. I got worked up on this one. I don't know if it's just Friday or this particular thing. Everybody's family has a Chelsea somewhere.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
So maybe this is plucking little cords that I have calloused over or thought I calloused over.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
screaming into the microphone. I'm really sorry you have to deal with all this. It sucks, man, but it shouldn't be your responsibility. But I also think Chelsea desperately needs to hear some things, and I would imagine a few other people would have your back. You're not the only one who's headed up to here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I hope you find the solution that feels right for you, and good luck, and enjoy that baby shower. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I haven't changed anything else. No medications, nothing. Look, can it be something else? Of course. I'm not going to give medical advice. Bodies are weird. They're mysterious. Obviously, no one can pinpoint with 100% certainty that it was the chia seeds. But in two months, my LDL could be back up and it was just some weird glitch. And I'm like, hey, guys, wasn't the chia seed pudding?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But what I will say is most of us, especially Americans, we don't get nearly enough soluble fiber. Not the stuff you take that makes you poop. Not the stuff you can't chew it or digest it. This is the stuff that ends up in your blood. And I measured and I was getting less than 10% of the US RDA for fiber before I started eating this stuff. And now I'm getting over 100% each day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
So I'm not saying it's the chia seed pudding, but I'm hinting strongly that it very well may be the chia seed pudding. So if you're struggling with some rising LDL and your doctor thinks it could be the lack of soluble fiber, I would say give this a shot. Chia seed pudding saving lives over here. And it tastes good. So it's not like, oh, God, I got to eat more fiber.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, my God. Emergency cocaine. Wow. I've never heard that one before. What a ridiculous excuse for getting high. I can't be a good dad without the yayo. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And you're putting broccoli in the blender and choking it down every day. This is the way to do it. All right. As always, we've got some fun ones. We got some doozies. Can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Have you heard of five hour energy, buddy? They're not even a sponsor, but you might want to try it. It'll also help you stay awake with a sick kid. God, this guy is just a full blown drug addict. Oh, so sad. Oh, this poor kid up all night with a coked up dad. If the kid was even sick. Yeah, good point. That could have been a lie, duh. Okay, so ridiculous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh man, so they're both addicts. Great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I cannot believe Brad's mom goes over there to do their housekeeping for them. And they're acknowledging that they can't take care of their child. Hey, can you come over and do laundry? We've been doing rails of blow all night. We want to sleep till 5 p.m.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Erratic is a very polite word for this behavior. This is neglectful at best. Very reckless, honestly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
For sure. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Why am I not surprised? Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh man, what a tragic story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Man, this kid's really stuck. Obviously, I share all of your concerns. This must be incredibly hard for you and your husband to watch. If this were happening in my family, I would be deeply disturbed. Very sad. It's even sadder given how happy and successful you and your husband are as a couple.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It really does. Your cousin and his wife, they sound very troubled. Brad's whole upbringing obviously did a number on him. His parents did not set him up to be a high-functioning adult. They probably created and then enabled his dependence on them, on substances, on gambling. And these addictions, like all addictions, they're obviously masking some kind of pain. God knows what that is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's so strange to think that somebody who grew up this privileged, who probably has very few major stresses in life, would have anything that they need to numb. But this happens all the time, of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's funny because if this happened at a party in LA, I'd be like, they were doing cocaine. I don't know, maybe there's more to the letter. So here we go. Gabe, just to clarify, this is a man, right? And his wife was in the bathroom with another woman?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Everything was handed to him. He probably never had any big goals. And if you've never struggled to achieve things you want, if you don't even want things in the first place, you don't get to form a true personality. And Gabriel, no mention of his father. So was this like single mom doted on him? Probably never addressed the fact that dad wasn't around.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
There's so many other things going on here that make a person like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, some sort of existential trauma.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
He's coping with the abyss in his heart or whatever. It is sad. Okay, there's so much going on in this letter. Let me try and cut to the chase. Your little cousin is clearly vulnerable. He's growing up with parents who are drug addicts, who can't care for him. There's a strange, formerly criminal stranger living with them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Cocaine at a minimum in the house, to say nothing of what I can only imagine is emotional neglect. I get why you want to call CPS, and it is definitely an option. It might be the right thing to do. I'm really worried about drugs around kids, especially. Look, that can kill a kid. It doesn't take much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
There are some potentially painful consequences to calling CPS, of course, and it's hard to know if the fallout from an investigation is worse than what he has now. I honestly don't know. What I do know is, this thing you said about how your family's way is just to shove things down and never talk about anything uncomfortable, that is making the situation worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And I'm sure it's played a role in why Brad turned out the way he did. I'm guessing his parents have that avoidance. He inherited that avoidance. He chose a partner who doesn't want to talk about the important things and the rest of your family doesn't want to go anywhere near it. Which, by the way, the Brad dysfunction aside, that describes many slash most families.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It is incredibly awkward to confront difficult truths in a family. So I totally don't blame you guys for tiptoeing around this dumpster fire. But if there's a way forward here, someone's going to have to say something. And given what you've shared, it sounds like that person is you and your husband because you guys are high functioning. You see the situation clearly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You have a fairly close relationship with Brad or you did at one time. You love your little cousin. And it doesn't sound like anybody else has the stones to do this. So my take is, I think there's an important conversation to be had with Brad, maybe his wife as well, about what's happening in their home, how it's affecting their son.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And as uncomfortable as that conversation is, I think it might be a necessary step before calling CPS. And I say that for two reasons. One, I think it's the right thing to do, give Brad and his wife one real shot at waking up here, turning things around, taking better care of their son before you get the authorities involved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And two, if you do end up calling CPS, which like I said, that might end up being the right move here, I think you'll sleep a lot better at night knowing you didn't jump straight to getting them into trouble, you didn't subject your little cousin to more instability, you actually tried. And they have full license to intervene here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's not like they're looking for drama or they're being petty about some family squabble. There's a four-year-old's life at stake. Brad and his wife are lucky that our friend here might talk to them directly and not just call the cops on their ass. So if they can't handle that conversation, that is on them. Our friend here is on solid ground.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I love that. If she can get her whole family involved here, that's going to make a much bigger impact on Brad. It's easy to brush off one cousin who's three feet shorter than you. It's harder to look at 12 of your family members dead in the eye and deny that you're a hot mess when you're admitting that you were doing blow all night and need your mom to do your laundry at age 33.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Okay, oof. So, poor kid. I don't know how I feel about that. Gabe, this kind of reminds me of the niece from a couple weeks ago who found out her dad was cheating. Yes, totally. Not something you want your child learning about you. No, I guess that's on the wife since she apparently kissed her friend in front of her son. But I do wonder what he means by involved his son.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I also think it'll make it way less scary and stressful for her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, they might appreciate the leadership since they struggle to take this stuff on themselves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
yeah it's also possible though that her family goes yeah no we're not getting involved right and then our friend here is on her own which is really that's a tough place to be but i still think she can have the conversation with him agreed and look if you do obviously there's no guarantee that brad and his wife will clean up their act become better parents i sincerely hope they take in what you say i think you have a shot but given everything you've told us this whole upbringing and family ethos and these wounds you're up against a lot
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
there's a decent chance your intervention doesn't work. It's absolutely still worth trying, though. But if this continues, I do think you need to at least consider calling CPS because your cousin is being parented by addicts. There are drugs in the house. That is a real issue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's not like mom and dad go to Reno once a month, they get blasted in the hotel room and come home and mostly parent the kid. Okay, that would be concerning, but at least they'd be keeping it away from him. Brad's using cocaine to be able to stay up with his son, which is almost certainly an excuse, by the way, but it does mean he's using drugs around his kid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
He's letting some deadbeat who just got out of jail sleep on the couch. Your little cousin's locking eyes with this guy while he eats Cheerios in the morning? That is not a safe environment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yes, that's very good to remember, but it obviously doesn't mean that it'll be all smooth sailing. And Brad and his wife will have to deal with the tense conversation with CPS at a minimum. Also, you can make a report to CPS anonymously, and they should protect your anonymity. Now, Brad or his wife might assume that you or his mom called, but they won't be able to prove it
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And if you don't tell Brad's mom you're going to file a report, then she really will be clueless. And my hope is that they see that and don't keep her from seeing their son.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Did the son help him set up the cameras in the bedroom or whatever the recording thing was?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Agreed. And we're back to grief, our faithful friends. But that's another reason I feel this intervention is so crucial so that they know they did everything they could do. Also, going back to that theme of integrity from the last letter, deciding not to look the other way, leaning into this tough conversation, actually protecting the little cousin they say they love so much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That is a form of integrity, too. What you're saying here is I value doing the right thing here more than I value my own comfort, which I really admire. I'm going to say it anyway. I'm so sorry this is happening. Your little cousin is very lucky to have you looking out for him. My heart just breaks for this kid who was born into a very dysfunctional family. But who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
He might turn out okay with the right interventions and support, which might begin with you. Hope Brad can hear what you say. Sending you all a big hug and wishing you all the best. All right, and now for the recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You bougie bitch.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Hopefully it. It's unfortunate, but maybe he needed his son's help to prove this. I just, it's messy at best.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That's right. And I also have these. I left my other ones in an Uber, my old Sonys. So I went to the airport and bought them before a trip. And they actually are amazing. And I use them all the way to Turkey and all the way back. And the battery lasted the entire time without me having to charge it. It was only like 50% gone after 20 hours or something crazy. Battery life on these things is great.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's bananas. What I love is when you take them off, they pause. And if you put them back on, they play again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I got the newer ones because they were on sale. They were actually cheaper than the older ones. And in the airport, somehow, I got them for cheaper than you can get them at Best Buy. It was just random. Yeah, so I highly recommend these as well. Also, in case you didn't know, there's a subreddit for our show.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, something getting you worked up, come and shake it out over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. A lot of fun stuff going on there. Meme thread, a lot of fun, casual conversation going about the show as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yes. Prompted one of the weirdest moments we've ever had on this show of just uncontrollable, semi-psychopathic laughter from me and Gabriel. And so her question was, he's alone in the hospital. He might never walk again. I don't hate him. I feel bad for him. Do I reach out or do I stay away?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And we were kind of hoping this would be a wake up call for him, right? Like maybe he's sitting in the hospital going, how did I get here? Maybe I need to take a hard look at myself and make some changes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Just gonna say he's lucky, but that's still pretty bad. He lost a foot? Jeez, how tall is he now? Anyway, he might be in pain for the rest of his life. I shouldn't laugh as I read that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Just runs you over with a RAV4 twice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That is wild. Imagine using your vehicular assault injuries to pick up chicks at a bar. Just flashing your prosthetic foot like, look what this lady did to me. You wouldn't do that to me now, would you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's well said. And I cannot stop thinking about pickup lines that involve vehicular assault injuries. Like, hey, girl, I got a foot for you. Just slams the prosthetic foot down on top of the bar. I got a whole foot for you.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And that, my friend, is why you are a better person than me. This is exactly right. I commend you for being boundaried and responsible about all this. I'm just glad this all happened far away from you.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That sounds like progress.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Ah, so you're hot and attracted to toxic men. Name a more iconic duo. Just kidding. Go on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Amazing. Congratulations.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thanks for that, friend. Appreciate the update and the kind words, and I hope 2025 treats you well also. I'm sitting here marveling at the fact that this guy almost lost his legs and he apparently has not changed at all. At all. No. Gabe, it's actually kind of terrifying to think that somebody this troubled could just go through a crisis like this and not question any of their life choices.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Wow. So she turned this around on you, gaslighted, and you were right all along. Tale as old as time. It's funny because, seriously, turning shit around on the other person is the classic response in situations like this. I feel like every cheating story on Reddit goes exactly like this. I confronted her and she said, you have a mental problem. You need therapy and you're paranoid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But I guess that speaks to how pathological people like this actually are. You could be almost paralyzed in a hospital room and alone and still think that you're entirely the victim. It's scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
If you have that capacity, you probably don't get this bad in the first place. But then if you get this bad, what does it take to wake up? If he ended up in a wheelchair, would that have done it? If he almost died, or would nothing cut through those defenses?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's just so hard to wrap my head around. But also, to be fair, we don't know what this guy's thinking. She said he's up to his old tricks, womanizing, causing chaos wherever he goes. But maybe on some level, he knows something isn't quite right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, or like Cousin Brad from the previous question, that low self-esteem, poor sense of self, it just manifests as an amorphous anxiety. Like a hollowness. Hollowness, exactly. That's kind of a hallmark of narcissists, right? They just feel generally empty and inadequate and full of doubt, and that's why they need other people to admire them and prop them up to compensate for that emptiness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But it's almost a lack of a feeling more than a feeling. So, I am sorry to hear that you ended up dating another narcissistic partner, but I appreciate that you got out before it escalated. You're clearly learning and growing. You're still in therapy, learning to rewrite these patterns. That is brilliant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I know how hard it is to change these templates, but it's on us to learn to protect ourselves from people like this, especially because they're not gonna change. Ultimately, they serve to show us where we need to grow, which is the weird upside to these awful situations. As long as you're taking good care of yourself, And congratulations on all of your growth. It's really wonderful to hear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You're clearly thriving after this relationship. You're doing the work. You're working hard. You're leading a full and productive life. You should be very proud. I know I am. I am proud of you. But mostly, I'm proud of you for feeding our narcissism by showering us with all of these compliments. Way to read the room. We take all the supply where we can get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Of course, again, I kid, keep up the great work, keep thriving, and keep a rubber mallet in your trunk. You never know when you're going to need one. Go back and check out the Jay Dobbins episodes if you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It's 100% free. It's not schmoozy. It's not gross. It's on the Thinkific platform for free at sixminutenetworking.com. The drills really just take a few minutes a day. Dig the well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. all again at 6minutenetworking.com.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And everyone's like, they're doing it. They're cheating on you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show about the warning signs for civil war.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
To hear whether we're on the cusp of a civil war here in the United States, check out episode 718 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
How much time do we have? How much do you like cocaine? There's a lot of things that can be worse than cocaine if you really like cocaine. Anyway, that's not what the question's about, Gabriel, you weirdo.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the little chocolate left on your pillow during this existential turndown service, Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, man, what a mess. It was nice of her to try and get rid of her friend's cocaine by shoving it up her nose. But the rest of this is a terrible solid favor. Yeah, solid favor for a friend. First of all, I am very sorry that your wife had this affair, that she hurt you, that she created a situation that involved your son, that she ruined not one but two marriages. Think about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Although that's also her friend's fault. That woman clearly has some big issues. This is all very messy, very painful. I can hear how difficult and confusing this is for you. It just sucks, man. And I feel for her husband, too. Fascinating that both of you had the same suspicions and the same instincts about how to prove what was going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I guess it's not that unusual to want to get to the bottom of something in video evidence 2025. Gabe, I found it interesting. when he said that his wife had taken on the role of counselor for this woman, and maybe that explains why they were so close. But it doesn't fully address the betrayal that he feels. And I'm going, of course it doesn't. These are two totally different things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's kind of the sense I get. But it was a cover for whatever was going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, of course. And we all know the difference between friends and lovers. It doesn't matter if his wife was this woman's confidant. It became romantic and she cheated on him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And I think so. He's a nice person for doing that. But I had to comment on that. It might be something for him to consider. Agreed. Look, I know you feel conflicted about spying on your wife, and I totally get why. It's an icky feeling. But then, yeah, how else do you confirm your suspicions?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Like you said, there are more invasive and less invasive ways to dig around, I guess, like talking to this woman's husband, for example. That helps confirm your suspicions. And you can do stuff like that before you go through your partner's phone or set up cameras in the bedroom. But man, if you're looking for slam dunk proof... I guess you kind of have to invade someone's privacy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah. I came up with this one while I was staying at your place last week. I felt like I was in a hotel, except it was my friend's house. Pretty sweet. Little gift on the pillow. Essential oils diffuser, obviously. I'm not even kidding about that, by the way, folks. You did not turn that on. It was just there. No, it was just there. Salt lamp in the corner. Luggage rack.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
The other thing you don't want to do, Gabriel, thinking about this now, what you don't want to do is go and ask the husband, and he's like, oh, that's weird, and then he decides to just confront his wife immediately, and then if you set up cameras in the bedroom, your wife's like, I heard from my lover that her husband yelled at her, so I know that you think, you know, you kind of want them to not know that you know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
So if you're looking for that slam-dunk proof, that evidence, you really have to invade someone's privacy in a semi-gross way that would be wildly inappropriate otherwise. Obviously, the ideal scenario is to be in a marriage where you don't have those doubts in the first place, where there's total trust and honesty and you don't feel the need to snoop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Of course, man, the second you're knocking on your own bedroom door and your wife and her friend are inside and they won't open up. And when you barge in, the friends all suss and your wife is adjusting her blouse in the bathroom or whatever. The second your son is like, I might have seen them kissing in the pantry. I think you have license to dig around a little bit more. It's awkward.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's unsavory. But if your wife is gaslighting you when you confront her and she's not going, look through my phone, talk to my friend. If she's not an open book, which she obviously wouldn't be because she's cheating, I'm not sure what else you're supposed to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You had to find that text thread to know that you were right and you were not crazy when she was trying to make you feel like you were crazy. But let's talk about your other question because that's really the issue here. Should you trust that they are only friends now?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm going to just bold highlight that. Hell no. They're still spending time together. Why would the romantic element stop if they're still hanging out?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
To be fair, I do think it's probably more likely for two women to go back to being friends than, say, a man and a woman. But, I mean, maybe that's naive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm not hearing that. She's not doing any of that, at least not in the letter. So I feel like this isn't even the right question. The right question is, do I still want to be in this marriage? Are we genuinely working on things? Are we resolving anything? Or is it time to part ways and start building my own life? Based on what you've shared with us, I think it probably is time to part ways.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Your TripAdvisor review is going to be fire. I appreciate that. I'm glad you enjoyed your stay at Chez Gaby. Five stars, man. Best oatmeal of my life. Strong couch. My only complaint, hard to wedge all my protein shakes in between dozens of boxes of kidney beans in the fridge.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm not hearing anything to suggest that your wife is working on things on her own or with you. I'm not hearing that she's said goodbye to this woman so she can refocus on you. I'm not hearing that you're particularly keen to work on things. So honestly, I'm a bit puzzled by why it matters whether she's telling the truth or not about this other woman. outside of your curiosity, of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But if you're asking because you think there's a chance of saving the marriage, then you have to be asking these questions. And you have to have a partner who's equally invested in working on things. If she's off doing her own thing and you're over here wondering what's going on, I'm not really sure what's left to work on. I'm sure that's painful. It's also clarifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Look, I get it if you don't know how anything technological works and your son is a tech genius. I get asking for help. I don't love it. Pick someone else, but I get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But if he asked his son for help because he needed backup and solidarity, if he was essentially giving his son a role on his team against his mother, he's recruiting his child into this drama that all else being equal, he should be protecting his child from. And I don't have teenagers or older kids, so parents will have their own opinions on this maybe, but I think I'm right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
So I'm not exactly sure what to make of this. I guess I'm just realizing that's another subplot in this story that makes things even more complicated than they are. Because it's not our friend here's fault that his wife cheated on him, but he can control who he brings that information to and who he involves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Because I'm sure, frankly, all this is definitely doing a number on a kid, especially a kid that age.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Either he knew his wife was bi or closeted gay before, or her orientation is just less important to him than the fact that she cheated. But if I were in this guy's shoes, I think my curiosity would be even greater slash equal to my hurt, at least in the beginning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, that one's on me. I'm booking through Amex Travel next time. There you go. For the late checkout. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life. and those around you.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Fair enough. I still think she's done a lot of damage here, man. But I understand that people can do hurtful things when they're really confused. So I hear that. I am very sorry that this happened, man. But obviously it kind of had to happen because something's not right here. This is not a healthy marriage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Time to take stock of things, confront some hard facts, and accept that you just might not know the full story about your wife and this other woman these days. But more importantly, you might not actually need to know in order to make the right call. And good luck.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So Monica has Joe's phone and she's keeping it activated so she can read his messages. What the heck? So creepy. Maybe like, okay, when somebody calls to get the mortgage payment, I'll have to tell them that he's passed away and I can get information. I mean, I kind of get that, but you don't reply to somebody, Joe's dead. Something's off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But it makes sense if Joe was the legal point of contact for Julia. This must be Monica's way of intercepting any useful information that would otherwise go to Joe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Speaking of which... Funny story I remembered this week. I wanted to share it with you guys. So years ago when I was living in L.A., I was a host on couchsurfing.com or couchsurfing.org.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, man. What a sad story. I'm so sorry for Julia that she's being isolated like this, especially because she's still sharp. She's probably got a lot to offer. I'm so sorry for you, your mom, your whole family, these neighbors, everyone who loves this woman and just wants to spend some time with her. It's tragic, but it's very disturbing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
As per usual, we wanted to talk to an expert here, so we reached out to attorney and friend of the show, Corbin Payne. And Corbin's first thought was contacting the police in Julia's County in New York, trying to get them to do a wellness check. That's a good idea. It sounds like you've tried and you haven't had any luck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
We looked into this in more detail and you might need to file a missing persons report for Julia. If she's officially missing, then the police might be more obligated or motivated to assist in locating her. Even if she is in a nursing home, the cops have access to resources like databases. They can usually talk to healthcare facilities with more ease than a civilian and
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Corbin's second idea, reach out to Adult Protective Services. If you don't know, they're the agency that investigates exploitation or abuse of elderly people. It's a very important agency, super useful. Now, we don't know if Julia's actually being abused or exploited. Like I said, I have some questions about Monica, but who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But I would definitely make a report, tell them your story, ask if they'll look into it. Now, if they do track her down, they might not be able to tell you where Julia is right now. These cases can really be sensitive. But Corbin said that at the very least, APS could try to get eyes on her, confirm she's safe and healthy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So for the uninitiated here, this is a website where you could basically say, hey, I live in San Francisco. I'm willing to host one or two people, and I've got a spare bedroom, and people just from all over the world who are young and don't have enough money for a hotel or prefer the couchsurfing experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Just know that Monica will probably find out if APS manages to meet with Julia, and it's not going to take Sherlock Holmes to figure out who tipped him off. But also, it doesn't sound like you have much to lose. Your relationship with Monica is already strained, to say the least. I'm sure you'd rather know that Julia is alive and safe than stay in Monica's good graces.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
We're going to link to APS in New York State in the show notes for you. I would make that a priority. Corbin's other strategy? Reach out to those three other people Joe set up as power of attorney. See what they know. Ask them why they didn't take on the duty of caring for Julia. Something's weird about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
If you can persuade them that Monica isn't taking proper care of Julia, maybe they'll step up. Also, if you guys have a legal reason to find Julia, like enforcing a power of attorney, then the police might actually be required to assist, although that usually goes through legal channels first. So I'd definitely try to get your hands on that paperwork.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
If you can't find it, track down the attorney Joe worked with to set all that up. They should have a copy, and they can tell you what your options are. They might not even charge you at this point. Having that power of attorney paperwork might also help you get around any HIPAA laws.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
These are our patient privacy laws here in the United States that might prevent a nursing home from telling you whether Julia is a resident. The other thing you could do is hire a private investigator in New York to find her. Licensed private investigators, New York probably has more than any other state. Maybe Texas, I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But if I had to guess, New York seems like a place that PIs would be a dime a dozen. They have access to databases and other resources that the rest of us don't. They're also not as expensive as you might think. Definitely cheaper than flying back and forth trying to knock on doors yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
If they track Julia down, they could maybe even go and visit her or just verify where she is, and then you guys could do a wellness check of your own. A PI might not be able to actually get into a nursing home, but I bet you guys could.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Corbin said that Monica has the ability to order a nursing home to keep people away from Julia, but she might not have yet thought to do that, especially if she thinks nobody knows where she is. Another option, and I'd probably do this regardless, you could retain an attorney to reach out to Monica.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
If Monica thinks there might be a court case over Julia, maybe she'll back off and let you guys talk to her, or at least tell you where she is. Or who knows, this could go the other way and make her dig her heels in more, but an attorney would be super helpful in advising you either way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
they would write you and go, hey, we're two German girls and we're gonna come visit and can we stay with you? And you're like, yeah, sure. And you look at their profile and there's people that say like, hey, these people are fun, they're clean, whatever. And I was one of the first 500 members of this website. And I remember being like, this is the coolest idea ever. And I've used it a bunch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I agree. I don't know if they'd have much luck there, even if they want to give it a go. So those are your conventional approaches. One dark Jordan idea I had, what if you contacted Monica posing as somebody from the state lottery, for example, or some sort of sweepstakes saying that Julia has won a bunch of money, you need to get in touch with her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Something tells me Monica is going to respond to that, especially if she's trying to get the money for herself and that's what this is all about. but you have to say that you guys need to verify her current residence or you need to talk to her directly in person to sign something, whatever it is. That's maybe how you find out where she is. Now, is this strictly legal?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Probably not, but you're not fraudulently posing as a state lottery official to get money. You're just trying to track someone down. And besides, you guys are in the UK, so New York state law could kiss your crumpets as far as I'm concerned, right? Who cares? Look, I'm so sorry this is happening. It's super sad. It's got to be very stressful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I hope you guys catch a break and you get to spend some time with Julia before she's gone. She is very lucky to have so many people who want to track her down and spend time with her. If you find her, it's going to be so sweet. Giving you and Julia a big hug and wishing you all the best.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And by the way, if you do want to retain a private investigator in New York, get back to us because that's where Kevin Barrows works, isn't it? Primarily, Gabriel? Oh, yeah, I think so. And he's like the guy. Retired FBI. He's been on the show before. He specializes in finding missing people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I don't know what his rates are or anything, but if somebody's missing in New York State, Kevin Barrows can find him. You know what's a great use of your imaginary lottery winnings? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
When did we all decide that struggling alone is kind of a flex, like, oh yeah, I'm totally fine, while internally screaming into the void? Meanwhile, the people we admire, leaders, mentors, successful folks, they're out here actually asking for help when they need it. Maybe they're onto something. Thank you so much for watching.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I've had people host with me a bunch. And in LA, when I lived in Hollywood, I did it a ton when my roommates were out of town because it was super fun. You know, because hundreds of people in LA at any given time off of couch surfing. And I ended up hosting a guy and his sister from Saudi Arabia. And they came over and they stayed with me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And if your therapist isn't a good fit, which pro tip, you definitely want to try a few out. You can switch at any time, no extra cost. I've done that myself a few times. So if you've been meaning to try therapy, but you keep procrastinating, consider this your sign. Your future self, the one who actually has their life together, is going to thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
This episode is also sponsored by Delete Me. Ever get a scam call where they know your full name and even your address? Yeah, that is not just a weird coincidence. That is data brokers selling your personal info to the highest bidder. These companies collect everything, your phone number, email, home address, even details about your family, and they don't just sell it to advertisers.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Scammers, spammers, all kinds of sketchy third parties can buy your data too, which means more phishing attempts, identity theft risks, and worse. That's why I use and recommend Delete.me. It's a subscription service that tracks down and removes your personal information from hundreds of these data broker sites so you don't have to spend hours doing it yourself.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And Delete.me keeps scanning and removing your data on a regular basis to make sure it stays gone. They also send you privacy reports so you can see exactly what they've found and erased, which is honestly pretty satisfying.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Thank you for listening and supporting the show. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over at JordanHarbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And one evening we got to talking, which was the whole point of couch surfing. I learned a ton about Saudi and the culture. And just, I was like, hey, can't women drive? She's like, I don't care. I'll drive anyway. And I'm like, how do you get away with that? Don't the police do anything? She's like, well, my dad is a big deal in Jeddah. So they let me do it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Gabe, that sign-off was longer than the police report the cops filed last week. That sign-off went on for days. Jeez. Oh, man. I can't stop thinking about that story, by the way. I can't believe that happened to you. Me neither. I can't believe I was the victim of an attempted... Hold up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
All right, so first of all, I'm very sorry that your cousin did this to you when you guys were kids. It's awful. It's traumatizing. It's all the things you know it is, and my heart goes out to you. We've taken several letters on the show from people who've experienced this kind of abuse, and it comes with its own unique traumas and challenges.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So you're not alone in struggling with the aftermath of this. In a message like this, it can bring up a lot. It can put you in touch with some very painful memories and feelings. It can dredge up stuff you've mostly put to bed. I think that's all very normal. That said, it sounds like you've done truly extraordinary work in your life. You've come so far. I'm so happy to hear that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Good on you for seeking out the support you needed for finding healing and insights from so many different sources. You should be really proud. So look, I totally understand why Megan's message threw you. I also don't know what her intention was. It's absolutely possible that she was trying to express her love and support for you. And maybe she did that in a clumsy or ignorant way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I'm like, so it's almost just like a might makes right kind of situation over there. If you're important, you can do whatever you want. And I asked about wearing the... I think it's called a chador. But it's basically what we think a burka is, right? The covering, the head-to-toe thing. And she's like, I threw mine out, but I gotta buy one at the airport because I can't roll in without it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Maybe she didn't think through what it might be like for you to receive that message. Maybe it would have been nice if she said, hey, I know this might bring up some stuff for you. Maybe you don't want to talk about it, but here's what I know. Here's what I'm seeing. And I just want to tell you that I'm on your side and I'm here if you need anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's like that weird volcanic ash bowl that has three little legs on it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That might have clarified things and landed better with you. But if Megan's never been through something like this, it might be hard or even impossible for her to frame things like that. to even imagine that her message wouldn't be welcome. Now, is it possible that she had some ulterior motive? Sure. Is she stirring up drama? Is she looking to bond with you over something dark? Maybe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Could she be trying to create evidence for a custody battle? Honestly, that makes a lot of sense to me, considering that she's in the middle of an active divorce. The timing is pretty sus. But do we know for sure? No. It's also possible she's just trying to be kind and empathetic in her own weirdly imperfect way.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
It can be even simpler than that. If you don't feel like sharing your reasons why, just, sorry, not interested. You could even ignore the message completely, although I do appreciate that you want to close this loop. I'm the same way. I'd rather put something to bed than just dodge it, even if it is a little uncomfortable. But honestly, I don't think it requires much more than that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And it's just very interesting little cultural notes here. Anyway, one night, we all went out to some bars in Hollywood. And it was the brothers' first time drinking ever. So it was kind of a big deal. So the gal, she'd been touring all over America for like a year. He came to visit her and they met up in L.A. And these are Muslims, right? So he's like, I might have a beer. I'm like, cool, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And how she responds to that question, that's probably going to tell you a lot about whether she's somebody you want to let in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Good point. That's actually what I think her letter is about. Not just what to do about the Megans who trigger you, but how to move through these moments when the legacy of this abuse pops up again. Megan is the easy target of that anger. And like you said, that might be appropriate to some degree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But I get the sense that this anger is best directed at this cousin and perhaps his mom if she really did enable him. And I also wonder if she might be a little angry at herself for simply being vulnerable in this department. Look, I haven't gone through what she's gone through, but I can relate to that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Sometimes somebody will pop up in my inbox and say something thoughtless that pisses me off and I'll hear myself going, Hey, screw you. Why would you say it that way or whatever? And then I'll go, Okay, I'm a little raw in this department. Feel a little off kilter. This person just revealed that to me, so maybe I also need to look at that. So I'm with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
It's important to parse our anger and make sure we're directing it at the right people and drawing the right conclusions from it. Also, I would talk to your therapist about all this if you're still working with them and see what they say. That's a great place to talk through the upsides and downsides to engaging with Megan, and more importantly, whatever her note has brought up for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But again, this is totally up to you. We're just inviting you to get more curious about what Megan's note is bringing up for you and your process. in addition to whether you want to take her up on this invitation to chat. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're locked in an endless custody battle with a psychotic ex, you're gaming out career moves in this highly unpredictable world, or your doctor friend is accusing you of victim blaming after they had an affair with an abusive mentally ill patient, Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, big or small, hit us up at Friday at JordanHarbinger.com.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, it's a bite-sized gem from an episode from us to you, delivered right to your inbox most Wednesdays. If you want to keep up with the wisdom from the show, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at JordanHarbinger.com slash news. Okay, what's next?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, got it. I was like a big, I'm going to break the covenant with God and have a beer. So he dressed in this traditional dishdasha. This is a long robe and headscarf with the black rope thing that a lot of men wear in the Middle East. He did not want to wear this. He wanted to look beautiful. The Hollywood part and blend in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I was like, trust me, man, if you want to go out and talk to people and have conversations and meet Americans, you need to dress traditionally. That's going to get everybody's attention. So we go to my friend's bar because I'm like, nothing's going to happen here. This is a safe place. I know everybody. No security. No, the bartenders know the owners.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And of course, some a-hole there who a guy I talked to a million times and was always normal. He's sitting at the bar and he's really drunk and he just starts calling my guest all this racist stuff. And being like, you guys are all this. I was really pissed off. And my friend came over to me and he's like, I'm scared. I want to go home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
They do. Oh, wow. You put the onions in there. I see you. Can we speed this up a bit? I'm hungry. The chips have been on the table for like five minutes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And my friend was already scared to go out looking like an Arab dude in Hollywood. So this basically ruins his night. And he felt really scared. And he's like, let's go home. I don't want to be here. And this dude was almost in tears. It was really sad. I was pissed. So as we start to head out, because my friend's insisting to just go home. He wants to change and go somewhere else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Before we leave, these two jacked Filipino dudes that turned out to be army guys, they walk up and they're like, don't go anywhere. We're taking care of this. And they start speaking Arabic to my friend. And then they go back to this dude, the racist guy, and they tore him a new asshole. And they were like, cut that shit out. He's welcome here. This guy didn't do anything to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, man, this is so sad. Bullied by students and teachers, and then he doesn't get the education that he needs on top of it. This poor guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, okay, that's intense. So she was too young, clearly. Otherwise, look, this is usually a non-issue for two minors. If it's like a 15-year-old boy and a 14-year-old girl, okay, but if it's like a 15-year-old boy and a 10-year-old girl or 11 or something, it's like... Yeah, it sounds like what happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Interesting. So that has since been folded into autism spectrum disorder in the DSM, yeah? That's right. So I assume that played some role in the incident with the girl next door. Maybe not, but maybe they're totally unrelated. But I know ASD can make it hard to read certain cues, control certain impulses. It can impact decision-making in general, even if somebody is high-functioning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You can either deal with us or you can get the fuck out. And the bar owner was like, yeah, you can't do that here. I will ban you in two seconds. You either apologize or you leave and you never come back here. Never. You're not doing that in my bar. So we stay and now suddenly everybody in the bar is buying us beers. My friend's like, do I have to drink all these? And I'm like, no, dude, relax.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
There you go. That might help explain that incident with the neighbor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Look, I know it can be hard to know how to best care for a child with special needs. It's confusing. How much do we accommodate them? How much do we empower them to be on their own? How much do we protect them? So I feel for your parents there, this is a really challenging child to have. It's a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But it does sound like they might have made some pretty big mistakes, and they are not owning up to those now. And they might not be helping him become independent, which it sounds like he might actually be totally capable of, even if he does forget his deodorant here and there. And that's really worrisome. What does a person like Dave do when his parents die?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
This is not his son. That's quite a burden to carry. And meanwhile, the parents don't seem to be doing much to make this as easy as possible down the road.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Of course she does, because she knows that her tears are going to manipulate you. Now, that's a cynical view, but you said she's a covert narcissist, so it's par for the course. Look, this is not okay. I feel very strongly about this. I can understand why she's emotional, assuming her tears are not, again, just a way to prey on your sympathy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But for her to put Dave's care entirely on you, starting when you were a teenager? Not okay. And apparently unnecessary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
This is going to be a crucial boundary for you to actually enforce.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I'll tell him this is your first time drinking. And the problem is they're going to buy you that drink. So he's like, I'll give it to you. So me and the other guys were just like drinking these beers. Even this racist dude bought us a drink and he was actually, to his credit, apologized profusely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Fascinating theme on today's episode, huh, Gabe? People clinging to control over situations instead of letting go, letting people in, being open to new approaches. Just incredible how much that can backfire.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Or that they screwed up their kid, which a narcissist is not going to want to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But if he becomes independent and actually goes, you know what? I don't need mom. That's her worst nightmare.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
They're actually afraid that it will help. That's my bet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Well, put Dave in the program and kill your parents. Not necessarily in that order. Darkest of dark Jordan takes. Yeah, I'm kidding. Do not do that, Menendez. All right, so this is a really good question. This is so intense. Look, like I said, I really feel for you here. I obviously feel for Dave, too. It's a really tough diagnosis to have. It's a tough life he's led.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
My heart breaks for anybody who was treated poorly, who struggles to take care of themselves. And I feel for your parents, too, despite their flaws and their mistakes. They obviously didn't ask for this. And I'm sure that raising Dave has been extremely challenging, to say the least. But right now, I largely feel for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Because not only have you been impacted by having a sibling like this, your parents are putting a massive responsibility on you. And as you can tell, I'm a little angry about that. Not because Dave doesn't deserve love and support. Of course he does. But because taking care of him for the rest of your life... That is not fair to you. You have your own family now. You have your own life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And when we started talking, it turns out that his best friend's brother had been killed the week before in Afghanistan. So he was basically drowning his sorrows and got triggered. In which, great Feedback Friday principle in there, you just never know what quote-unquote insane person is going through. Because I remember being like, wow, this guy's been here a zillion times and he's always nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And caring for your brother Dave forever, it does not even sound necessary. So let's get tactical here for a moment. I think your first order of business is to start working with your parents to put some structure around Dave that will allow him to live independently as much as possible. And I'd start now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Because certain programs can take a while to access and you want to have all the pieces in place before your parents are too old to care for Dave. Specifically, I'd start looking at options for housing, supported living arrangements, options to live alone with support services, group homes, co-housing communities designed for neurodiverse individuals. There are tons of options out there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I would also think about what Dave is going to require financially. That might mean setting up a special needs trust. That's a kind of trust that protects a person's assets without jeopardizing their eligibility for government benefits. That is a super useful thing to have in place. It can be managed by a trustee who could be you. I would also look into something called an ABLE account.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That's a tax advantage savings account for people with disabilities. Lots of helpful financial products out there. On the legal front, you're going to want to look into whether you guys should have some kind of guardianship over Dave or allow for something less restrictive. Basically supported decision making where he gets to call a lot of the shots with your input.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Obviously, the housing, money, legal pieces of this, that's all top priority because Dave struggles with self-control and personal responsibility. The last thing you want is to set him up with a bank account and he drains it in a few months to buy a bunch of expensive Lego collector sets on eBay or something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Like, I know that sounds like I'm being mean, but if he's got impulse control and he spends all his money currently on Legos, that might not change when your parents are gone. It might just get worse. You're going to want to talk to a family attorney and or an estate attorney about all of this. Maybe somebody who specializes in disability law. That's going to be key.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Healthcare is another area you're going to want to look at, although I'm not sure that there's a ton for you to do here right now. Basically, just make sure Dave has access to doctors that he can talk to a therapist if he needs to.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's true. That is sad. I also think some general life skills would be nice. Cooking, budgeting, advocating for himself, maybe some vocational training, supported employment services. And then there's the social aspect of all this. Clubs, interest groups, maybe pairing with mentors through a nonprofit who can give him some guidance, some friendship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I know you said he's kind of a loner, but I also wonder if your parents didn't encourage this part of his personality very much. I don't want to go down a whole rabbit hole of resources here, but we went ahead and gathered a bunch of great ones for you from financial planning to housing to employment support to mental health. We're going to drop all of that stuff in the show notes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
What is going on? That's what was going on. Not that it makes it okay, but Now it makes a little more sense than guy who you thought was normally a nice person turns out to be virulent racist. Then another guy at the bar walks up and says, I saw what happened. I'm so sorry. Come to this club tomorrow night. I'm a promoter there. And this is like the club in LA, at least in Hollywood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And look, if they fight you on this, or they're like, yeah, okay, you're right, and then they keep burying their heads in the sand and do nothing, you might need to make this urgent for them. Maybe you say, look, if something happened to you tomorrow, wouldn't you want to know that Dave is safe and cared for? Wouldn't you want me to have the support I need to do right by him?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
How are we guaranteeing that he's going to be okay? Hey, maybe you can even make their collaboration with you a requirement of your help. I feel like I would do that. I'd say, look, I'll keep an eye on Dave and make sure he's okay once you're gone. But if you don't help me find the support we need, you cannot count on me for that. I am out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I know that's a little intense to say, but you might need to scare them a little or take a harder line if they refuse to be cooperative. My mom actually is considerably older than her siblings. You've probably all heard about the one who was like a heroin addict and died. There's another one who was mentally ill, and my grandparents never set him up for success.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And my mom had to take care of him, and he had a guardian, and he was always mean to her and stuff like that. It's just this really annoying... And it was made a million times worse by my grandparents doing nothing to set him up for success. They basically made it impossible for my mom to have any resources. Then finally, when they finally passed away, they left him a trust.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But unfortunately, they didn't make her the sole person in control. It's just a huge mess. Right. So he's fighting around everything. And then she finally got him a guardian from the state. And the dude basically just embezzled the money. At this point, my mom was like, I've done all I can.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I'm not going to keep helping you if you're going to be a total prick to me and then take control away from me. And then this guy takes some money. It's like, oh, well, too bad. Bye. And it's really a shame because if my grandparents had cooperated at all, my mom could have set him up for success and it wouldn't have necessarily been smooth sailing. But they made it harder.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
This one he invited us to. So the next night, my new buddy wears his usual dish dash. He lends me one of his. This night he's like, oh no, no, I'm definitely wearing it now. He's like, oh, yeah, no, this is on now. So he lends me one of his and I wear this thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And it's already hard to take care of somebody like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
For sure. And if they can hear those stories directly from other parents in similar situations, that would be even better. So maybe you also take your parents to a couple support groups or parent networks. You get them talking with other parents in their shoes. I bet that would make an impression. And then you got to break all of this down into very small, very doable things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I would tell your parents, hey, look, we don't need to tackle everything today. How about we just look at housing options, see what's out there. No commitments, just information. You want to look for easy wins. Attend a 30-minute webinar with your parents. Schedule a quick consult with a special needs planner. Small things that aren't overwhelming.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That'll show them that this is way less scary than they think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I'm having a dark Jordan idea here. I wonder if you can use your mom's narcissism to your own advantage here, just a little bit. Maybe you tell her that setting this stuff up is going to be the best thing she ever did. It's going to make her look like such a loving mother. That's going to last way beyond her lifetime. You've done so much for Dave over the years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
This is how you can make sure that love continues. Everyone's going to be so impressed with you. This is how you can make us feel that you are an amazing mom, even after you're gone. Now, this is manipulative, but if it works, I think it's fair game. 50-50 on this working because her immediate need for narcissistic supply might trump the long game here, but who knows.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Listen, while you do all that, stay connected to your empathy. Keep treating your parents as your partners in this. That might be hard sometimes. There are so many intense feelings wrapped up in this conversation about your brother.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But the more you approach your parents with kindness and patience, even when they make things difficult, the more you're going to be doing right by your brother and by yourself. Most importantly, I really want to encourage you to keep prioritizing yourself and your family. I think that you already know this, but it doesn't make you a monster. You deserve a life of your own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You're not abandoning your brother. You can help take care of him in a way that's fair and sustainable to you. Feeling secure in those priorities, not letting this caretaking eclipse your own life or impinge on your own family, I think that's crucial. And I'm proud of you for that. Good luck. Now for recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the Molcajete, helping me mix together this tableside guacamole of life drama, Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So I use Crystal brand deodorant. It's basically a rock of alum salt. The reason I'm bringing this up, normally I don't recommend things like this, but I hate smells, but I also don't want to smell myself. Of course, this is a rock of alum salt, which kills bacteria that ends up stinking, but it does not have its own smell. It doesn't smear on stuff. It doesn't end up on your clothes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
None of that gross waxy perfume crap. This stuff lasts like five years. In fact, it lasts until you accidentally drop it and it shatters. That's how long these things last. I swear I've had one of these for like a decade. And you just rub a little thin layer of it on and I don't even need to use it all the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I just use it when I know I'm really going to be stinky and it will absolutely demolish BO. I don't totally get how it works. I guess it's just impossible for bacteria to grow in that little place. You only need a little bit. It goes a long way. It travels well. I can't recommend it enough. For people who hate deodorant, this is deodorant for you. And it's not antiperspirant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You're still going to sweat. It's just not going to stink. And I don't know, antiperspirant I think is bad for you. Who knows? Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show if you want to yell at me about how alum salt is secretly bad, and I just don't know. You can find a receptive audience over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit, if you're a Redditor. Alright, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, wow. I love this, man. What a play. Well done. So delish.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That's right. What a picture. With my Saudi buddy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Unreal. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. What a bunch of clowns. What a short-sighted play, man. Hoist by their own petard.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Unless he's not telling us something, like he did something before all this to piss him off and they're like, you owe us this. I don't know. It doesn't sound like he did. It sounds like they were just being selfish or who knows. Maybe the company's in dire financial straits and they couldn't pay him. But then you explain that. You come up with a payment plan. You work it out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You don't just fire somebody and tell them to get bent and then pretend you can't find their contract because you don't want to abide by it. Whatever the reasons, they were dicks about it and they deserve every part of this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And the promoter knows what's up. And he's like, oh, hey, guys, what's up? Welcome in. So we go to this club. And like I said, it's the hottest club in Hollywood at the time. So we're sitting at the promoter's table surrounded by the usual Hollywood types. Models, muscle bros, out-of-work actors, some not out-of-work actors. Not really my scene, but super funny and an amazing experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's always fun to talk to a lawyer who knows their client's full of crap and has absolutely no recourse. You just watch them desperately tap dance while you lay out the facts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That sound you hear is me licking my fingers because this is so tasty. Man, what can I add to this absolute masterpiece? This is a Feedback Friday gem, real Dark Jordan play, although it's not even that dark. It's a little diabolical in the best way, but it's totally fair game. And like I said, these people almost certainly deserved it from the sound of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
What I'm taking away from this story is a few things. First, and this goes back to the letter from our friend at the credit union, the one who's working under Diane, relationships are everything. If you own a great relationship, you own the power. I don't mean that in a Machiavellian way. I'm not saying you should own the person. I'm saying whoever has the better relationship wins.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And in this case, you owned the relationships with these customers and you were probably well positioned to do that being in sales. You were their main touch point with the company. Your employment contract that they couldn't find probably says otherwise, but that doesn't matter. And I'm also willing to bet that you treated those customers pretty well before all of this happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And there was some trust and rapport built up there because all it took was one phone call to get them to follow you to a competitor, which is a lot about you. And that's awesome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Totally. There's another relationship that completely changed the game for him here. And by the way, whoever that lawyer is, take that guy to a great dinner, share a piece of your new commissions with him. He earned it. That's a homie right there and a damn good lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
By the way, this other thing he said, how his old bosses shredded their credibility with the other contractors in the community because of what they did. That also goes to show how important your relationships are. Reputation is crucial. These people shot themselves not just in the foot, but in both feet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But this is also something only people who don't take their relationships seriously would consider doing. This is why I'm always banging on about digging the well. And I'd be remiss if I didn't shamelessly use this opportunity to plug 6-Minute Networking over at 6minutenetworking.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Everything our friend here probably did leading up to this crisis, what he did during the crisis, it's all in the course. It's totally free and you will love the course. The other big thing I'm taking away from this letter is we can't control so much about what happens to us, like being fired, but we can control how we respond to it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And that's really the game of life, finding the healthiest, most productive, most proactive ways of meeting adversity, using these setbacks to catapult you into something better, or learning from them in a way that sets you up for even more success down the line. And if you can be clever and take some calculated risks when you do that, like this guy did, it can pay off massively.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And we see, like, the guy from the A-Team movie and the guy from the TV thing and the HBO guy. And then it was just so hilarious that... My friends from Saudi Arabia come in and they're like, let's go maybe have a beer at a bar. Woo, like let loose. And then it's, no, we're going to the hottest club in Hollywood and dumping gray goose all over Instagram models.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So well done, bud. Super proud of you. I'm going to file this one under just freaking pay people what you owe them. And if somebody screws you, look for fun ways to turn lemons into lemonade and just keep moving forward. Such a great story. I'm super excited for you. Enjoy this new chapter and good luck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Go back and check out our episodes with the one and only David Eagleman, always just a favorite here on the show, and our Skeptical Sunday on Feng Shui. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Ditto Corbin Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with an investigative journalist that uncovers how a fraudster siphoned off billions of dollars.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
To get a deep dive into the shadowy world of corruption, money laundering, and embezzling by the shadiest shysters among the elite, check out episode 602 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And I'm wearing aviators indoors because that's how you do. Sure. Honestly, I only remember parts of the rest of the night because we got absolutely obliterated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But one interesting detail I do remember about that week, like I said, she didn't wear the burqa or the chador or anything while she was in the States. But I learned how some Saudi women handled that. She kept one in her suitcase for when she lands back home. And she had turned out she gave that to another girl that she stayed with. She never wears it if she doesn't have to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from rocket scientists and CEOs, neuroscientists, war correspondents, and astronauts. This week, we had my friend David Eagleman back on the show. Such an interesting guy. We talked about whether or not we'll be able to upload our consciousness, our brains to the internet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
She said, I'm going to buy one at the airport when I get to Saudi. And I'm like, are you sure you can find one? She's like, there's a million places where you can buy this at the airport in Jeddah. She also, I thought, was particularly interesting. She told me how she met her husband. So you can't just go somewhere and socialize.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You're not just like at a university talking to the boys in your class. That's just not a thing, I guess, that happens over there. So they met on Yahoo Messenger of all places. Granted, this is like mid-aughts, so I don't even know if Yahoo Messenger exists anymore. Anyway, either way, this was also not allowed or at least is dicey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But they wanted to meet up and you can't just be like, oh, I'm going to go to my friend's place. And then the guy shows up like that doesn't work either. This is a very strict society. So she told me this elaborate plot where the guy flew to her area on business and then went to her dad and said, oh, I heard you're a very esteemed businessman. I'm looking to get married.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Do you know any single women between this age and this age who are interested? Or like, I don't know how you do it. But he basically convinced the dad to introduce his daughter, her, to him, even though they had already been talking for like eight months. What a weird con. Isn't that weird?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
He basically thought, oh, it's my idea. I met this guy. They're hitting it off. I'm such a great matchmaker. Meanwhile, it's like a whole plot to just manipulate him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Oh, I heard you're well connected. I'm looking for a woman to marry. And the dad was so flattered that he didn't go, huh? How'd you find me? Who told you about me? It was just like my daughter's single and he just brings the guy home or whatever or wherever this happens and introduces them. And they were kind of like, oh, cool. He seems nice. Let's get married.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And meanwhile, they've been chatting online for like eight months. It's so funny. So it worked out. Yeah. The other thing that was weird is I was like, hey, I heard you need your husband's permission to leave the country. And she's like, that's true. And I said, how did you convince him to let you just travel around the U.S. by yourself?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
She's like, I basically told him I was going to leave him if he said no. So I was like, oh, so you don't have no leverage. You have some. She's like, here's the thing. I'm leaving him anyways. And I was like, oh, OK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, she was like, just so you know. I thought it was like true love that they told her. No, I think it just, you know, it's hard to get to know somebody on frickin' Yahoo Messenger. And what about the brother? Was he attached or single or what? This took me a while to realize what was going on. Because you think, oh, it's a strict society.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You don't realize just how strict it is until you start really talking to these folks. So her brother, he was constantly on Skype.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
constantly skype chat and he would constantly have incoming calls at weird hours and i remember a girl called him and he answered with video and i was like oh hi and i waved and she like ran off camera and i said oh okay why you're wearing a tank top and shorts i don't care and he's like this is bad you can never see her like this it's very bad for you to see her with her pajamas on
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
If we might create MRI technology that could read minds a whole lot more. We're always kind of all over the place. I'm just really interested in the brain. He is one of the world's foremost experts on the brain. So these are always super fun conversations. You really don't want to miss this one if you're into neuroscience, futurism, from a grounded perspective.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And I just thought, this is so ridiculous. But then I realized nobody knows she's calling him. She's calling him from bed. And that's why I was like, why are they calling you at night all the time? And he's like, hey, if they get caught chatting with a guy, they're in so much trouble.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Imagine being a member of a conservative Christian family and they find out you're a cam girl or work at a strip club. That's the equivalent of your daughter calling a dude on Skype from Saudi Arabia. So what I thought was interesting is like, so what happens? You just meet up with them? And he's like, no. And I said, how do you meet up with them? How do you make anything out of this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
He's like, you can't. And I said, how many women have you talked with outside of your family? And he's like, none. Can you imagine that? So he's only got these online relationships. He said one time he went to someone's house with a bunch of women and he stayed outside and he saw the girl at the door and she said like goodbye to him and that was his contact with a woman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
It's so bizarre. So just imagine how overwhelmed this guy was when girls at a club who are half drunk are sitting on his lap. You're so cute and you're in fancy robe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Zero to a hundred with zero to a thousand with a girl Yes, so it's a girl who guest starred on pretty little liars on one side and he's got a magnum of Grey Goose on the other Yeah wearing his traditional outfit right the funniest part of that. I will never wash this It's got glitter on it. The whole trip was just peak couch surfing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
To be getting hammered in your 20s at an exclusive club in Hollywood with some Arab dude and his sister from Saudi Arabia while we're both wearing traditional garb. They for sure never forgot their week in the United States. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And he's just such a great explainer of things you can't miss with this episode. We also had a Skeptical Sunday on Feng Shui. You know, that furniture arranging thing that's supposed to be science but is really just kind of ancient Chinese interior design. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and revisit weird and nostalgic memories from yesteryear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, what's this woman's deal? This is so odd. Did Julia do something to her? Does she just love having control over this woman, which is scary to think about? What's weird is if you want to move somebody to a home, you usually move them to a home near you, not a home near where they used to live that you don't live near.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, this is very odd. She clearly doesn't actually like her slash hates her. Maybe she put her in a really depressing nursing home that's cheap and she didn't want anyone finding out and yelling at her to put her in a nicer one or bring her home or something like that. There's something going on here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Bingo. Yeah, I think so. Or, and I hate to say this because it's so depressing and cynical, but in cases like this, you always got to wonder, who stands to benefit financially? Does Julia have assets? Is Monica isolating her so she can get her hands on them? Has she already gotten her hands on them and she's just hoping Julia passes away and can't do anything about it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Those are really the only rational explanations I can come up with right now. Otherwise, Monica is just a jealous, controlling... See you next Tuesday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I totally agree. But one thing I know for sure, do not have kids with this guy if he is not psyched to have them too. It's not fair to anyone. And if you did that, if he agreed to that, he'd really be recreating that pattern in his family Gabe was just talking about. And you guys have good data on how that goes. That would be a whole other tragedy. So don't make that mistake.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Time to start talking. Good luck. And now we want to knock you up with deals so potent they'll get you pregnant. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Therapy shouldn't feel like a luxury that only certain people can afford. Come on.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
With BetterHelp, you're getting solid professional care that fits into your life and your budget, whether you're dealing with anxiety, stress, relationship stuff, or you're just working on being the best version of yourself. Therapy helps, period. One of the best things therapy's done for me is help me through some major life transitions. Plus, you learn tools that you can use every single day.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And BetterHelp's legit. They got over 30,000 therapists. 30 freaking thousand. They've helped more than 5 million people. It's the best online therapy platform in the world for a reason. Your mental health... is worth investing in, and now it's actually within reach.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That's something you learned probably in college or whatever, high school now. Goals are powerful. Goals can be really helpful. But I've always been more interested in how you turn an abstract goal into into reality. Because a goal is essentially it's a vague aspiration, right? It's just an idea. It can be a very powerful idea. All change and ambition starts with that idea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Strawberry.me. You know, I'm a big believer in coaching. I've got a fitness coach, a nutrition coach, a voice coach. I used to be a coach myself. It's simple. Anytime I can save by learning from somebody who's trained in what I want to master, it's money in the bank.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Why waste time fumbling around trying to figure out things when you can have somebody guide you along the way? Well, that's when Strawberry.me approached me and I was like, heck yeah, absolutely. Strawberry.me makes personal growth slash life coaching accessible. And within four hours, they had me connected with a certified coach and It's online, affordable, incredibly flexible.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You can schedule live video sessions that work with your schedule. You can message your coach at any time. If the coach is not a fit, switch any time, no additional cost.
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So whether you want to work on your career or financial growth or life transitions, you got some self-doubt, time management, building healthier habits, staying motivated, their network of certified professionals has somebody who specializes in exactly what you need. Visit strawberry.me slash Jordan today and get a $50 credit applied to your first session.
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That means you can try personal coaching for as low as $25 to see if it's right for you. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah. I always forget about that. That's cool. Flus. It weirdly sounds kind of like what it is. It does, doesn't it? Also very similar to floss, which is appropriate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But the reason so many people never achieve their goals is that they remain just that, goals. If you ever achieve something, it's because you've woven that goal into your life in some way, because you're in a relationship with it. And the older I get, the more I realize that goals are They're kind of the tip of the iceberg. They're just the headline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Somewhere between tip and bribe, but it leans towards bribe, but not like outright graft. Exactly. It's just, oh, you want to get into this place five minutes before it opens so you can get a good seat? How about a little box sheesh, right? It's like, okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It's not something that would put you in jail, but it's something that probably you shouldn't be doing, but everybody's, that's just how it works around here. Yeah, it's a great word. And if you go to a place like Egypt, you're going to hear it every five minutes if you want to get anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Never heard that word in my life. Interesting. That would be the first time I've heard you use a word on this show that I've never heard in my life. And we're all smarter for it. Okay. I'm very sorry to hear about all this. This is super stressful. I can, of course, understand why everyone's spiraling because of this. 500 grand in debt is no joke.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
500 grand in debt you inherited after your spouse died weeks after losing your sibling is just super sad and a lot to handle. We wanted to run all of this by an expert, so we reached out to Erin Hoskins, bankruptcy attorney and a friend of the show. Erin practices here in the States.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
She's not as familiar, of course, with Canadian law, but she did some very brief research and she said that the laws in British Columbia, they don't seem significantly different from ours when it comes to liability for debt. Just keep that in mind. Lawyers, we're not your lawyer and all that. Do your own research before fleeing the country to escape a crushing debt, et cetera, et cetera.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
My new favorite disclaimer. We should use that more often. Exactly. Before fleeing the arms of justice, please consult your own attorney. So Aaron started off by reminding us that people are only responsible for debts that they personally sign for or are found liable for as like in a lawsuit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So she was a little confused, as we were initially, about how Eileen's late husband's ex-wife could still make her life miserable due to what seems to be a family support obligation of his. But Aaron said that when somebody dies with outstanding child support, that debt can sometimes be considered a claim against their estate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So that must be paid from the estate assets before any inheritance is distributed to beneficiaries. She assumed that your uncle's estate is still being settled after his death. And if there are any joint assets, his portion of them would go to pay any outstanding debts, which might explain why the house can't be sold due to the pending litigation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Aaron would also assume that Eileen's portion of the estate, that would be hers to keep. In her view, there's no reason that her late husband's ex-wife should be entitled to that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Now, there does seem to be one big exception to all of that, which is if a spouse is directly involved in managing the deceased person's finances that led to the unpaid child support, then they might be personally liable, particularly if this management involved the transfer of assets from the person who owed the debt to the non-obligated spouse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
The real substance is how you're engaging with that goal in tiny ways all the time. In other words, at some point for a goal to actually become real, it has to become a process. It has to become a system.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You said that Eileen and her husband made, quote, questionable financial decisions to obfuscate assets and minimize child support. So maybe that's what's going on here. Maybe that's why the ex has a claim.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
She's trying to recover funds that were transferred essentially to the wife in order to keep them away from the ex-wife for the child support purposes, which does sound quite dodgy and unfair to the ex and their daughter. So these people might have a very legit claim, but it's just unclear how involved Eileen was in all this. Maybe it's ambiguous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But property laws often differ from state to state or province to province, so you would need to seek specific legal advice on all of this, of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Now, about you and your brother's exposure here, Aaron said that you guys would not be considered liable for Eileen's debts, even if they are personal to her, unless one of you co-signed or somehow guaranteed the debts, or they were somehow a joint obligation, which it doesn't seem to be the case. You would know if you co-signed something from your aunt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So just helping her out by talking to a lawyer or supporting her in other ways with the litigation or otherwise, that should not make your brother or anyone else in your family liable. Doesn't mean the ex-wife won't hate you. It just means that you're not going to be legally on the hook for anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And if Eileen fled the country, Aaron said that still wouldn't make anyone other than her liable for her debts. And it definitely wouldn't make anyone else liable for your uncle's obligations. But if any litigation plays out, her moving to another country, Aaron said, that's not going to help the situation because by not defending herself, a judgment will still be entered.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And that can be used to seize the defendant's property or bank accounts. I saw this when I was an attorney. Also, people would go, oh, there's this thing I owe this money. I'm just going to be somebody nobody can find. OK, but what happens is court goes on and you're just not there to defend yourself. So the judge goes, well, OK, I have no choice but to rule for the plaintiff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It has to become a ritual, especially if the goal is not a one and done thing, but something you want to be or have for the rest of your life, like being in good shape or writing books or speaking another language, that sort of thing. Goals are for people who care about achieving something once.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And the other person's not there, but they have a bank account somewhere with money in it or a house that's sitting around or vacant land. Take that. OK, well, we're going to force the sale of that or give it to the. That's just how it works. It's not that, oh, everything's on hold until we find this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
This is not a criminal proceeding where you have to find the person in order to put them on trial. This is OK. Well, we just assume you're abandoning all this and you're guilty. So we're taking it. That's how this works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So that's not really going to help unless she's going to flee and move all of the assets away in the meantime, which is, again, not legal, almost certainly if the pending litigation is happening. But again, if the litigation is against the estate, Aaron said that still wouldn't transfer the obligation to Eileen unless joint property can be seized for one of the spouse's debts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And again, specific to the jurisdiction where she lives, you got to talk to somebody who really knows what they're talking about in the area where she lives.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So Aaron's take on all this was if Eileen's goal is to keep the property, it might be to her benefit to try and settle the litigation to allow anything that belonged to her husband to go to his ex-wife or whatever fair slash relevant portion of it. After all, it does sound like they failed to pay her child support and they did so on purpose because they didn't want to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And at that point, Eileen would be able to keep her portion of the estate. But Aaron recommends that she seek legal advice on that point as well. You don't want to try and navigate this stuff alone, period.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And if Eileen would receive a portion of the proceeds from the house, Aaron said that an attorney might actually be willing to represent her if she agrees to pay them out of the proceeds once it's been sold. Or she could look into legal services or pro bono representation that means free. You can always find those on the applicable court's website or through a Google search.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Another option, look into engaging a mediator to resolve the litigation. A good mediator can help both sides realize the reality of the situation and walk the parties into an agreement that usually works well for all involved, or at least equally badly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And hey, maybe your brother-in-law's lawyer or your dad's estate lawyer, maybe they'll offer to have a quick chat with her or at least pass on some high-level legal advice. One way or another, she needs to get some good counsel here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But systems, processes, these are for people who care about achieving something repeatedly and who are interested in seeing that goal evolve into new goals, new opportunities, new levels of mastery. You don't get into great shape by saying, oh, I want to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, which I think every guy did back when that came out. It was at college, I guess, for me, probably.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Agreed. Look, there is a resolution here eventually, but it's not going to happen by fleeing to Portugal or whatever. It's going to happen when the lawyers start talking. And honestly. Before you flee, sometimes fleeing and moving assets that are going to be involved in a litigation. Now you're talking, OK, contempt of court, criminal proceedings, potentially. This can get a lot worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You think it's bad now? It can get a lot worse when you try to unplug from it. Not wise.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Totally agree. And I'm not entirely sure that your brother-in-law should talk to the ex-wife himself, especially if he's prone to blowing up. Aaron said that sometimes engaging directly can help, but that largely depends on the relationship between the two sides, which clearly isn't great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
There's a long history of tension here, so it seems more likely that the attorneys will be able to talk without historical emotions that could end up clouding judgment, making things worse. But if there's a world where your brother-in-law could manage his feelings and play the role of somewhat neutral third party, hey, maybe it's an option. But I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Gabe, it sounds like, do you want me to take this? I'm a hothead and I get angry at gas stations, but let me give her a piece of my mind and set her straight.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. Let me handle this. No, Frank, I think we got this. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I'm sorry the child support and estate stuff played out this way. But this is ultimately something Eileen needs to sort out with the help of her attorney. It is not your job or your dad's job, although you guys are welcome to help if you want.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I hope Eileen finds the representation she needs, works her recovery, gets through this. She's lucky to be surrounded by so many people who want to help. And good luck. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your aging parents are living next to an aggressively psychotic person, or your niece found out that her dad is cheating on her mom and now you're stuck in the middle, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at JordanHarbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I'm putting a time stamp on myself, which you should never do. But you get in shape by doing five push-ups, and then you do 10, and then you do 20, and you walk on the treadmill, and then you start jogging, and you start running. Gabriel, did you ever do the couch to 5K? Did you ever try to run? No.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, it's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you, delivered to your inbox on most Wednesdays. It's a two-minute read, very practical. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. All right, what's next?
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And if you don't know, you're lucky. Don't Google it. Don't try to spell it.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So I was looking forward to this one because I have the exact same question with my own kids. The landscape has changed a lot. Kids are getting phones so young, they almost need them at some level. It's hard to know how to educate and protect them without freaking them out or holding them back. And it's a great question. I love that you're thinking about all this now. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So I wanted to run, but I was essentially just like overweight and had never run in my life. And a friend of mine was like, oh yeah, couch to 5K. And I was like, yeah, ha ha. And he's like, no, you've seen that, right? And I said, no, similar to what just happened now. And there was this plan on the web in 2004, whatever the year was. It was like the couch to 5K plan.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It was like, get up and walk for 10 minutes, and then stop and relax and then walk for 10 more minutes and then stop and then relax and then go home. And the next one was like, jog lightly for 10 seconds and then stop and walk for 20 seconds. And it was just that, but slow.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, eight months later or whatever, I was just running three miles a day or whatever it was. It was awesome. And I'd never felt more accomplished than having done that because I'd never really gone for any sort of fitness goal in my life until that. It was amazing. So these incremental gains really are something. You don't write a book by saying you want to be a bestselling novelist.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You write a book by writing a thousand words a day for years at a time and getting rejected constantly. So goals, great, very helpful. Definitely nice to have. They're an important stage, but they have to become something more, something active, something consistent, and they have to become very small, tiny ways of engaging with that goal every day in order to be truly useful.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show, searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals, or use the AI chatbot to surface the codes for you. That's super handy.
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Also on the website. If that doesn't work, email us. We're happy to dig up codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And I know it seems obvious, but I just thought it was worth repeating, especially as we enter that part of the year where your New Year's resolutions, if you are not already in full on habit mode, they're gone. They're falling away because the resolutions were just goals. The goals were just ideas. There wasn't a consistent system or habit or routine created around it to make it real.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Nice. You get to be the hero. You catch a cockatoo at Barnes and Noble or whatever, and the people working there are like, holy crap, you're a hero. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Look, maybe they have Barnes and Nobles in Papua New Guinea or something. I don't know. Cannibals read books too.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Interesting. Sounds shady. So they're almost certainly trying to stop you guys from comparing notes and or starting your own company. And Gabriel, it's also weird. Oh yeah, all the communication is on phone or video. So not recorded and not in writing. That's very odd. When I was working for the law firm, we had approved apps, but we also used email.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And if you had a meeting, somebody was like, let's type up everything in this meeting. And if you had a meeting that was like, then they were like, let's not send a summary of this meeting, okay? No emails about this. If you have a question, call me. And that was rare. And also there had to be a damn good reason for that.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
This sounds like the reason is we don't want to get caught for doing things that aren't quite right. That's what that sounds like to me.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay, hold up. To what I said earlier, this all sounds shady as hell. The last one is particularly ridiculous, but also half the going rate. No, no, no. The reason the rate is going is that's the rate. And hey, don't report that overtime. I'm guessing that didn't come in an email. That came in one of those video calls that's not recorded. This is all very shady.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But how is it his fault if another bird enters a customer's store? That's what I can't... That's what I...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, you guys just weren't persuasive enough because we got a blue jay in here. That makes no sense to me. I could be wrong, but it sounds like a random policy that essentially allows the company to not pay their employees for 17% of their work. That plus all these other nickel and dime-y exploitive practices really just sounds shady.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And there's no shame around this. You just gotta modify the way that you do things. Modify your thinking, get those systems in place. All right, as always, we've got fun ones, we got doozies. What is the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
They're straight up stiffing you. This is not cool. There's all kinds of ways to just not pay you.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Oh, wow. Cool strong-arming, bro. These bosses sound like real a-holes. Yeah, we decided to just not pay you. Can I ask why? No. The matter's closed. We investigated ourselves and found that we're just going to keep your money. No.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That's funny, man. Wow. Look, despite my laugh at the sign-off, I am not happy about this. Your employer is shady. They are manipulative. That is for sure. And look, all companies have their BS. There are certain policies they can come up with just to benefit themselves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But things like reimbursing employees for mileage, if you live in a state that has laws mandating mileage reimbursement for employees who use their personal vehicles, they have to do that. And that rate, I believe, is set by the IRS. They can't just decide to give you half because that's our company policy. Reporting overtime, that is also usually governed by labor law.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Holiday pay, I don't know, maybe that's a company by company thing. Vacation, sick time, probably in the law. And then this whole revisit policy, that is what we in the legal business call complete hogwash. Yes, that's my opinion, but you certainly have good reasons to be pissed. I'm not an employment attorney, but I have to imagine the law is largely on your side here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And candidly, I am shocked by your company being just so brazen about this, because if they were investigated for this stuff, they would probably be in big trouble and on the hook for a decent amount of money.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Bingo. And if they do talk, they want to be able to review the AI transcripts of their chats or whatever so they can get out ahead of any headaches and fire any troublemakers. Even that is, in my opinion, incriminating. So great question. Which laws is your employer bound by?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
We did some quick research, and interestingly, it looks like an employer is generally bound by the laws of the states in which its employees work, not just the company's home state. And this makes sense, right? Because otherwise, you'd have a Florida where you can just punch your employees in the face, and then they'd have all their employees in California, and they'd be punching them in the face.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
When I passed the bar, it was in there. So there are some caveats to that. First off, no matter what state you work in, employers have to comply with federal law, the Fair Labor Standards Act, the Family and Medical Leave Act. Nobody is exempt from that. Maybe in the military, of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But when it comes to wage laws, hour laws, workers' comp, paid leave, overtime, non-discrimination, wrongful termination statutes, employers generally have to comply with the laws of the state's where the employee performs the work, even if the employer is based elsewhere.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Now, an employer might be able to include clauses in your contract specifying which laws will govern your employment, but based on what we read, that does not override mandatory protections granted by the state in which you're working, and definitely does not override federal law. Nice try though, guys.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Most contracts have what's called a choice of venue provision, which means they'll have something that says, this contract will be interpreted according to the laws of this particular state. Even my contract has that. Hey, you got a problem? Okay, we're going to be doing this by California law. And if you want to go to court, you got to go to court in California.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So that if I decide to move to Texas, Podcast One doesn't have to fly a lawyer down to Texas and hire local representation. That's just what that is. But that doesn't mean that they don't have to follow the laws where we work here in California or in Texas or whatever it is. But even then, there are certain state laws that have to be followed where the employee is located.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
For example, if you work in a state where there's a law that limits an employer's ability to require overtime, they generally cannot override that protection by requiring you to sign a contract saying the employer can just require whatever overtime they want. But again, state-specific. And if you are a random freelancer... and you're not a full-time salaried employee, that's going to be different.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So bottom line, employers typically have to follow the employment laws of the states where you're physically catching birds. And if that means following multiple different state laws, that's what they got to do. Compliance is a bitch. Sorry about that.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That's got to be part of it. But I strongly suspect that it's both. Here's the thing. The kind of people that are too lazy to do things properly... They're also generally the people who also don't want to do right by their people.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Now, this would be different if you worked at a dry cleaner and the owner's like, yeah, I printed this off the internet, this contract, and it's got a bunch of weird stuff in it. That's just ignorance. That's just he didn't want to pay a lawyer. This is a company that's operating with, what did he say, 120 people in different states. This is not a Mickey Mouse operation unless they want it to be.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And they want it to be because they want to skim off the top instead of giving their employees mileage money. They want to put it in their own pocket. This is all it is. And it's very clear to me that's what it is. Look, I'm sure it's a minor nightmare tracking all this stuff across five different states. But I'm also sure that thousands and thousands of companies deal with this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
There's literally software that does all of this automatically. So they really don't have an excuse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Who knows? They might freak out so hard that they cave and give you guys what you want. That can happen too. It's really hard to say with these people.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And if your bosses retaliate against you or fire you for speaking up about this, I have to think that would make a lawsuit pretty easy, especially if you document everything that happens. So they'd be silly to get rid of you for this or make your life difficult, although I wouldn't put it past them.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
In a weird way, little dark Jordan, little gray Jordan peeking out here, I'm hoping they do so that you can turn around and sue the crap out of them for sacking you or targeting you after you simply pointed out that they're breaking the law. And then not only would they have to pay you, they'd also have to deal with the fallout of an investigation. That's my fantasy here.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Just check if your contract has an arbitration clause in there, which means that you'd need to resolve disputes through arbitration instead of litigation. Although, big asterisk, arbitration clauses, I've had those. And when I wanted to sue the employer, I just said, I don't think I should file this arbitration clause. And my lawyer said, yeah, I agree.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And then we went to their attorney and they said, no, you have to. And the judge went, nah, I'm going to just go ahead and allow this to go to trial. I'm just not going to honor that. Wow. Yeah. Arbitration clause means we really want you to go to arbitration, but a judge can go, no, thank you. I think we're going to deal with this my way. And that's it.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Look, if there isn't an arbitration clause and you did sue or they sue you, they'd be giving you a great opportunity to pursue discovery, conduct depositions, air the employer's dirty laundry, which I cannot imagine would be good for them. And I know what you're thinking. Oh, my God, this sounds expensive. But here's another dark Jordan pitch.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You mentioned that you work full time hours, but you might be classified as a freelancer or a contractor, which would mean they aren't paying the employer side of paycheck withholdings, even though you work as much as a full time employee. which means they could get hit with a very unpleasant tax bill in addition to all of the other difficulties and expenses.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
If, I don't know, you were to report them for misclassifying all 120 plus employees, something else to think about. Your other option is to file a complaint with the Department of Labor. as well as any relevant labor agencies in the state where you live, the states where you work, and the state where the company is based. And then there's going to be five investigations.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And send them a detailed list of all of these violations. Ask them to look into it. Maybe also the attorneys general in those states. They have a complaint system, too. And yes, it is. It's attorneys general, not attorney generals. They're not generals. They're attorneys general.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It's just a Buxy grammar lesson for those of you who think it's attorney generals. It's not. It's attorneys general.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And you're going to sound real educated when you use that next time, which of course you will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You can also call into your state's labor board and just be like, hey, if I work for a company and they're doing this and all this, is that legal? Is there something wrong here? And get their take. That should be a free consultation at any rate. Just know that these complaints can take some time to get processed. This is not going to be Monday. There's a check in your hand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
All of those reasons make sense. They're the usual I don't want kids reasons. But the last one, it confuses me. What am I missing?
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That's just not how these things work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, but if he files a complaint, they act on it, and then he's fired shortly after that, wow, that sounds like a wonderful lawsuit for retaliation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yes, it's also another violation of the state's labor laws, whistleblower protections. I mean, there's... So many things can happen to a company that fires somebody who files a complaint. So you really do want to talk to an employment attorney about all this. In fact, I think personally, I've got employment attorney friends.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
They salivated the prospect of a multimillion dollar class action lawsuit across multiple states for over 100 employees. This could be a huge case and the kind of case that's an existential threat to a company like this. And your other option is just to move to another company that treats its people better, avoid the whole debacle. That's also a fair option.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But there's a part of me, the attorney that has a strong sense of justice. I love to watch companies like this just get picked apart and dismantled by labor organizations and the law. This is a great use of lawyers. But really, man, I'm sorry they're treating you this way. I hate companies like this, if you couldn't tell.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But I appreciate your conviction and your curiosity, and I really hope they start treating you guys better. Or you just flap your wings to another place that does, because this bird-catching gig sounds pretty sweet. I'd love for you to be able to enjoy it without getting your wings clipped. Enough bird metaphors in there? I think you nailed it. Yeah. Keep flying, my man.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lip filler. My recommendation of the week, these are vitamin cases or pill cases. They're called Ikigai, I-K-I-G-A-I. Of course, we'll link to it in the show notes. Not a sponsor, just something that was advertised to me relentlessly on Instagram.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And I take tons of vitamins and different things, breakfast, lunch, dinner, before bedtime. And it really was annoying to have all these bottles. And if you go away for three days, you got to bring all the bottles. You got to count it out in advance and put it in another bottle and then be ready to identify them. It's just a huge pain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And these vitamin cases, they're made out of metal, they're engraved, and they look really cool. There's a zillion colors you can choose from. They're magnetic, and they're just well-made.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I shouldn't have kids because one other person didn't want to have kids and then this whole thing imploded. I guess I'm just not sure what to make of that. Let's see where this goes. But side note, anecdotally, every adult that I know who was parentified as a kid basically at some point soon after decided they didn't want kids as an adult and ended up never having them and is...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And so you can put in a week's worth, a day's worth, depending on which model you choose, of your vitamins, your pills, whatever it is, and then you can break them into different pieces, put them away, they don't come open in your bag, and then you don't have 17 vitamin bottles in a Ziploc like I used to do. It's just a more elegant way to handle this. This is not super duper cheap.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
They have great sales all the time. And it took me a while to pull the trigger because I was like, oh, I'll just do it the other way. Once I got one of these and splurged, it's just been great. You leave for three days, you only need this. You leave for five days, you only need that. It's just a much better way to stay organized and handle all of these things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Again, they've got ones that are a week long, ones that are a day long, ones that are two weeks long. If you take a ton of vitamin stuff, if you take just a few, ones that fit in purses, ones that definitely are so big they would never fit in a purse. They've got a lot of different options and I just think they're really nice. So thank you for allowing me to supplement your supplement game. Enjoy.
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1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Also, in case you didn't know, there's a subreddit for the show. A lot of activity in the subreddit. Discussion of episodes, meme threads, discussion of the news, questions about the show. If you're a Redditor and you're on Reddit, go over to the Jordan Harbinger subreddit and come hang with us. All right, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That's so gross. Skin crawling over here. This would be a deal breaker for me, too. I mean, you don't brush your teeth? Bruh. I can't imagine not doing that. I'm not like Gabe, obsessed with dental hygiene. I do the basic stuff. But how can you not at least brush them once a day, usually twice in the morning, right? How can you go out in public with furry teeth? That's insane to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I'm just going to read the letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Oh, I thought she meant because of his teeth. I'm like, yeah, I'd be insecure too if I had teeth like venom. No, this is a separate pathology.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Usually at this age, I can say, do you regret that? And they almost immediately say no as they sip on their old-fashioned or their martini. And they book their flights to Italy from their phone at the bar. So we talk about this a lot, but that just really does seem to do a number on people. Having to raise your siblings when you're 12 to 18, it's just like, I'm done.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay. As you can tell, Gabe and I are both horrified by the no brushing thing. Obviously, that is a major health and hygiene issue, but it really also speaks to some larger themes that are the real issues here that he apparently needs to be pushed to do basic things. He's not taking very good care of himself. Dental hygiene. That's not just a cosmetic thing or like a nice to have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And also he is somewhat oblivious or maybe even indifferent as to how he comes across to other people. I mean, dude, if you don't brush your teeth ever and you're not worried about your breath or what your partner is going to think when they kiss you, that is very weird. That's concerning to me. But look, I hear you. He has some great qualities. He's kind. He's funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
He makes you feel very comfortable. That's new for you. And you don't have many relationships. The ones you do don't last very long. You say you feel you need to work on your empathy and patience, which, look, I appreciate that. So you don't want to give up on this guy prematurely. I get that. I can understand why that puts you in a bind, but you've listed three major challenges here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
One is the oral hygiene thing. I think we've covered that. The second is that he's somebody who needs to be pushed in the right direction. So he really might be needing or even looking for a mother.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Or to be more accurate, he might need a mother figure in his life, but you're also falling into that mothering role, which I can't say I entirely blame you for because it sounds like he's a bit of a mess. but that might also speak to something in you that's willing to mother him. And the third problem is that he seems to be insecure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
He doesn't, or at least didn't early on, seem to be all that curious about you. Your read is that he's very concerned about you liking him, that he's not secure enough to make room for you, which maybe that's exactly what it is. I also wonder if that oblivious quality I just mentioned is also playing a role. Maybe he's just not aware of how he comes across, or maybe he's a little narcissistic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Is he communicative or is he just yammering on about himself a lot? Because those are two very different things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Or, to be fair, maybe she's only clocking these concerning qualities now, two months in, which is still very early days, and it's complicating her feelings about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
No, good point. That is meaningful because there's the stuff he's doing, objectively speaking. Right. And then there's how she's responding to those qualities, what pattern she falls into as a result. And those are just as important for her to understand. So, yes, these are all normal feelings, but I'm not sure they're feelings that you should just wait out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Two months into a relationship is when you start to get a handle on what the other person's stuff is. and everything your partner's qualities are bringing up, whether your interpretation of them is right or wrong, whether they reflect more on him or on you, they're not gonna go away. Two things need to happen if you guys are gonna be able to move forward here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
The first is to take some time to appreciate this dynamic we've been talking about, how you both are playing a role in these feelings and experiences, what's coming up for you in this relationship, how your history and your patterns and your needs, these qualities you feel you need to work on, how all of that is informing your interpretations and responses right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
The second thing that needs to happen is you guys need to start talking openly about this stuff. The more superficial stuff, like the not brushing his teeth thing and the deeper stuff, like flossing. No, I'm kidding. Like him needing someone to tell him what to do in his life. And in that conversation, I would make room for what's going on for both of you here, frankly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So, for example, I think it's totally fair to say it really concerns me that you need someone to push you in the right direction. It makes me annoyed. It makes me resentful. I want you to take more responsibility for yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
but if you really want to get somewhere, maybe you tell them, but I'm also noticing that there's a part of me that might be willing to push you, if that's true, of course, or my pattern is to have short relationships and to be single for long periods of time, and I think I need to work on my patience and empathy. So I'd like to tap into that more and understand where you're coming from better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Obviously, you get to decide what to share with them, what's relevant. I'm just saying there are broadly two ways to have a conversation like this. One way is to say, here are all the things you need to fix for me to be happy. And the other is, here are the things I'm finding challenging, and here's why.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That second approach will probably lead you to a better outcome, or at least give you a lot more information about whether to stay in this relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that jumped out at me too. And her last question, should I just start over?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and that is another reflection of that thing she said, how she needs to be more empathetic and patient.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
A hundred percent, man. And also she wants to work on her empathy and her patience. Here's your chance. All that said, though, the one thing that has to change here, this just has very few nuances for me, is the tea thing. I'm sorry. It's so gross. First of all, it's dangerous. It's inconsiderate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
This is the one problem where I'm not going, okay, but how does your partner's stank breath make you feel? What's your pattern around three-day-old spinach in his teeth? No, he's a freaking adult. He has to brush his teeth and he shouldn't need mommy to tell him to do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Look, this is something I would expect from maybe a 10 to 11, 12 year old boy, a rebellious 13 year old who's like, I'm going to not brush my teeth now. Even then, that comes across as immature. This is an adult man who's, I'm not going to brush my teeth. I'm too lazy. Who cares? I'm just, wow. And if you're not brushing, you're obviously not flossing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I mean, this is just like really disgusting on so many levels.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Couch to 5K, but it's more like, just brush one tooth, and then you can stop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's the thing where it's like, just put your running shoes on, and if you don't want to run, you don't have to run, but then you've already got your shoes on. Yeah, just put the toothpaste on the toothbrush. That's right. Just brush one tooth. If you don't want to brush the rest, you're off the hook.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
They're screaming. I literally don't want to talk about this anymore. It's too gross, man. If you don't brush your teeth, you need to seriously reconsider your relationship with society at large. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. So clearly, it's about more than just teeth. This is about your partner's ability and desire to care for himself. And so there's always something deeper there, I suppose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Ah, okay. I got it. So she was just avoiding it because it would spell the end of their relationship, basically. That's what it sounds like.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Something else you can try to make room for. Proud of you for asking these big questions. Good luck. Gabe, I can't even get over it. Like, your home would smell. Your car would smell. Because once your breath is that bad, I mean, you're just, that level of bacteria is just insane. I don't know if I've been around somebody like that, but yeah, it's bad news. I have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And you can smell them when they walk into the room. Gum disease is no joke. It's terrible. And it causes stomach problems. I mean, it's bad for you. It causes heart problems. It's terrible. Go back and check out if you haven't yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I am teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It is free. It is not schmoozy or gross. It's on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. The drills are designed to just take a few minutes per day. It's almost the same amount of time you would spend brushing your teeth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
For some of you, it might not work, but for the rest of us, there's sixminutenetworking.com. Build relationships before you need them. Show notes and transcripts are on the website at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, discounts, and ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My amazing team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Aaron Hoskins and Derek Fisher. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime... I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And we'll see you next time. And I got to go brush my teeth. I just did it, but I got to do it again. And I know I'm not alone. Join us as Adam Gamal, a Muslim Arab American and former Egyptian refugee, recounts his rise to become a key operative of one of the U.S. 's most secretive military units in this two-part podcast series.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
In part one, Adam delves into the high-stakes world of counterterrorism and covert operations, revealing the personal and ethical complexities of fighting terrorism from within the shadows.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Tune in to uncover his unique journey and critical insights only he can provide on episode 978 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like podcast. Have you ever wondered how it feels to watch your house burn down, be attacked by an alligator, or learn that your spouse hired someone to kill you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
What Was That Like is the podcast for you, if you're that person. Not the person who got hired to be killed, but the person who wondered, more thankfully. Real people come on every episode to explain the unbelievable situations they've been through. I think it's a funny concept for a show. I kind of wish I'd thought of it because I always get crazy stories from people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Not everything turns into a Jordan Harbinger episode. But What Was That Like? is hosted by my friend Scott Johnson, who's naturally curious and gives his guests the opportunity to share how they've really felt during some of their most surreal experiences. what they did in the morning before an earthquake, what song was playing as a gunman entered, was their stomach growling as they hid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Guests share everything they remember about their crazy, crazy experiences. So if you want to hear some disturbing slash inspiring firsthand stories about the thoughts that go through your head while surviving a kidnapping or winning the Price is Right, What Was That Like? is the podcast you've been looking for.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Every story is thoroughly researched and fact-checked so you know even the most unreal stories are actually someone's reality. Listen to What Was That Like? wherever you get your podcasts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay, so was it like...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the complimentary cucumber and strawberry flavored ice water keeping you cool in this boot camp of life advice, Gabriel Mizrahi.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Oh, don't worry. Kids are distressing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Wow, it sounds like you just gave birth to triplets right there. That makes us co-parents. You're doing the diapers, that's all I'm saying. I'm not very nurturing. Fair. Look, this one's a bit sad, but I'm glad you're finally confronting this question with your partner because you're clearly on different pages here. Look, there's a lot going on here. There's the basic desire to have a child.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
There's the fact that your relationship is good in a lot of other ways. There are the qualities you guys have or don't have that would play a big role in how you raise a child, so it's complicated, but honestly, I'm not sure how much all of that other stuff matters because ultimately you know in your bones that you want a child and he pretty clearly does not want a child.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And I don't think that anyone should have a child with a partner who isn't equally or at least similarly pumped to do something as big as this. His struggle to be nurturing, to understand and validate other people's feelings, your fear that you're gonna end up feeling like you're raising two children, those are important variables too, and they're very legitimate concerns.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. I meant like a fitness boot camp. You know, like you're in there about to vomit and you're like, I need some water.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Those are obviously crucial qualities in a parent. To be fair, I also know there's no such thing as a perfect parent. And even people who don't have all these qualities can still do the job pretty well sometimes. I also know that people can grow into parenthood to some degree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
If you're a decently functioning person, seeing a person that you created kind of unlocks certain nurturing qualities that might not have been obvious before. So there's that. But in my view, these concerns of yours, they're secondary to the fact that this guy, when you told him that you knew in your bones you were being called to be a mother, said, f***.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Or potentially, f**k, which is not really the response you want from a potential co-parent. No. Yeah, I'm sorry to say that I'm just, I'm not totally sure that having children with this guy is a good idea. It sounds like it would involve you convincing him or trying really hard to convince him, maybe even pressuring him to some degree. Cajoling him, if you will. I will, exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
A different kind of cajoling from the geopolitical incel, but yeah, that's a good word.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
No, you do not want to have to cajole your partner into creating another human life. The act is too special. The stakes are too high. And I'm also concerned about what that would do to your relationship. What feelings it would leave him with, both of you really, knowing he was somewhat pressured or convinced to do something he clearly has major reservations about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Look, he might have a kid and go... Man, I'm so glad you pushed me. It's possible. But that list of concerns he has about having kids, I just, I don't see those just going away. I worry about what a guy with those reservations would have to deal with if he capitulated to having a child, kind of just to make you happy. I just don't think this is a good decision for either of you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And most importantly, I don't think it's fair to your potential child to possibly give them a parent who isn't really that excited and on board with bringing them into the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And they only have this weird concoction in the back of the room in that little cooler thing. Anyway, our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, former jihadis, drug traffickers, Fortune 500 CEOs. What's the difference?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I'm with you, Gabe. But honestly, my sense is that this guy is a no. And when you add in those other concerning qualities, that sort of tips it for me. They're going to have to decide for themselves, of course. I'm just thinking about that last reason that she mentioned that his dad was married to a woman who wanted children, but then his dad didn't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So she ended up leaving him for someone else. I'm still puzzled by that, because like we said, that's not a reason not to have kids. That's just it's literally just a story about other people in his family who have wrestled with this decision. And interestingly, the outcome there was that they broke up. So if anything, that story just illustrates what he might have to give up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Rocket scientists, four star generals, investigative journalists. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice and generally offer new hot takes on age old themes. Before we dive in, I had a little insight this week, I suppose you could call it. I wanted to share it with you guys. So we all know that having goals is important, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Or is that like a parable giving her his indirect form of communication? Yeah, they wanted to do this and then one person didn't, so they just broke up. I'm not the only guy who might stick to his guns here. Exactly. Or maybe you should have thought, I need to be very upfront with my partner about this no kids thing so I don't waste their time or mine.