From food deserts to ultra-processed flavor deception, Jessica Wynn maps out America's nutritional divide and corporate food games on Skeptical Sunday! Welcome to Skeptical Sunday, a special edition of The Jordan Harbinger Show where Jordan and a guest break down a topic that you may have never thought about, open things up, and debunk common misconceptions. This time around, we’re joined by Jessica Wynn! On This Week's Skeptical Sunday, We Discuss: Imagine your body as an ancient supercomputer, humming along with software that's been fine-tuned over millions of years. Then suddenly, ultra-processed foods show up like a sketchy software update, introducing code your system never evolved to handle. The result? Your internal operating system goes haywire, consuming 500 extra calories daily even when the nutritional "specs" look identical on paper. Remember that Italian restaurant scene in Goodfellas? Well, the real food mafia (yes, the actual "Agromafia") is less about fancy dinners and more about fancy fraud. They're orchestrating a culinary shell game where your exotic $35 "Chilean Sea Bass" is actually $7 Costco tilapia in disguise, and your "extra virgin" olive oil might have a considerably less virtuous past. That plant-based burger patty might be wearing a hemp necklace and preaching about sustainability, but underneath its eco-friendly costume lurks an ultra-processed food wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the dietary equivalent of greenwashing — solving one problem while potentially creating a lab full of new ones. Picture 40 million Americans living in food deserts — urban landscapes where fresh produce is as rare as a unicorn sighting. These nutritional wastelands force folks to survive on a diet of convenience store cuisine, creating a tragic cycle where the most affordable food options are often the ones most likely to compromise health. It's a modern-day dietary dystopia. Here's the silver lining, food adventurers! Think of your grocery store as a game board: The real treasures are hidden along the perimeter — that's where the fresh produce, meats, and dairy hang out like nutritional VIPs. Stick to the edges, and you'll dodge the ultra-processed center like a dietary ninja. Want to level up? Grind your own coffee beans, befriend your local farmers market vendors, and remember: every whole food purchase is a vote for a healthier food system. Connect with Jordan on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [email protected] and let him know! Connect with Jessica Wynn at Instagram and Threads, and subscribe to her newsletter: Between the Lines! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: What is Skeptical Sunday about?
Willkommen bei Skeptical Sunday. Ich bin euer Host, Jordan Harbinger. Heute bin ich hier mit Skeptical Sunday-Co-Host, Schriftstellerin und Forscherin Jessica Wynn.
Auf der Jordan Harbinger Show decoden wir die Geschichten, Geheimnisse und Fähigkeiten der weltweit faszinierendsten Menschen und verändern ihre Wissen in praktische Hinweise, die Sie nutzen können, um euren eigenen Leben und die, die sich um Sie herum befinden, zu beeinflussen. Unsere Mission ist es, Sie zu werden, ein besser informierter, kritischer Denker.
Und während der Woche haben wir langfristige Gespräche mit einer Vielfalt von fantastischen Leuten, von Spielen zu CEOs, Athleten, Autoren, Denkern und Performern. Auf Sonntagen machen wir Skeptical Sunday, wo ein rotierender Gast, Co-Host und ich einen Thema unterbrechen, den ihr vielleicht noch nie überlegt habt und gemeinsame Missverständnisse überdenken.
Themen wie, warum Expirationsdaten Nonsens sind, Astrologie, Akupunktur, E-Commerce-Skams, Diät-Supplements, die Lotterie, Eierkandeln und mehr. Und wenn ihr neu zu dem Show oder ihr wollt euren Freunden über den Show erzählen, I suggest our episode starter packs.
These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, cyber warfare, crime and cults and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Heute, Fritos, Figs, French Fries, Foie Gras und Fondue.
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Chapter 2: What are fake foods and why should we care?
Die Linie zwischen dem, was das echte Essen ist und dem, was das falsche Essen ist, ist ein bisschen blöd. Was konsumieren wir bei jeder Mahlzeit? Wie können wir das verbreitete Web von Ingredienzen und Intentionen und Konsequenzen der Essen, die wir essen, von lab-gegrown Mehl zu artificiellen Geschmacken, wie können falsche Essen unsere Gesundheit, Umwelt, Gesellschaft beeinflussen?
Wir sind unberichtet über das Essen, das wir essen, und die Labels und Marketing-Schemen machen das Essen immer schwieriger. Schriftsteller Jessica Wynne kommt zu mir für eine Feast von Wissen und Skepsis über falsche Füße. Okay, guten Appetit, alle.
Ja, hey Jordan. Also, weißt du, wie gesund es ist, in einem Supermarkt zu shoppen? Nein, was ist das? Steck dich an die Perimeter. Also, denk an es. Alles, was auf einer Eile ist, ist wahrscheinlich verpackt, aber die Perimeter ist, wo wir frische Früchte, Vegetable, Fleisch und Fisch finden. Also, aus den Eilen zu bleiben, verhindert viele falsche Füße.
Yeah, that's true. The middle aisles, that's where all the good stuff is. That's where the Pop-Tarts are. But let's be clear, when we say fake foods, I'm not talking about decorative fruit or plastic for a drawing. And I'm not even talking about something that might just be frozen. What are we talking about when we say fake foods?
Ja, es ist ein ziemlich breites Spektrum. Also Fake Food bezieht sich auf Imitation oder synthetische Nahrung, wie jede Nahrung, die den Ausblick, den Geschmack, die Texturen oder den Nahrungsprofil von natürlichen Nahrungsmitteln mimiziert. Denk an Nahrungsmittel mit hydrogenierten Ölen, Additiven, Artifizierten Süßigkeiten und Geschmacks.
Okay, so anything with the word artificial is probably a giveaway?
Yeah, and that word shows up a lot in our ingredient lists. There's also plant-based meat alternatives, molecular milk, processed cheese, lab-grown meat. They're all fake foods.
Our food sounds high-tech. Molecular milk, I don't even know what that is, but it sounds like something. Milk from the future.
Es ist die Milch aus dem Zukunft, sicher. Ein wirklich komplizierter Prozess, die Moleküle zu manipulieren. Ein riesiges Prozent von dem, was wir essen, wird entdeckt. Und wir machen das mit der Verwendung einer Kombination von synthetischen Ingredienzen, Additiven und verschiedenen Prozesstechniken.
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Chapter 3: How do ultra-processed foods affect our health?
Ich habe nicht darüber nachgedacht. Wir sind die einzige Spezies, die kocht. Es gibt keine Küchen-Show von Animal Kingdom. Wir haben immer Gemüse gekocht, glaube ich, solange wir Fleisch auf den Feuer gelegt haben. Ich habe es nicht so nachgedacht. Was ist die Unterschiede heute? Weil es natürlich schlimmer wird.
Yeah, of course. There's processed foods like we process them when we're cooking, but they're not the same as ultra-processed foods. So this is super, super important to understand. Processed foods are what we've always done and any kind of processing changes how our bodies metabolize the food.
But we've known since the 70s when it was found through studies that the body reacts differently to eating a whole apple versus eating a mashed apple versus eating just the juice. And the only time it doesn't spike our sugar is when we eat the whole apple. It's that balance of the fiber and the sugars our body needs. So whole foods are what our bodies are designed to digest.
Interesting that just chopping an apple is enough processing to change our body's digestion.
I know, and ultra-processing affects our body's reaction even more.
Okay, so what is ultra-processing compared to processing?
Ultra-processing is when we eat things that have never been in the human diet before, like modern chemicals. Es gibt eine geeignete, einfachen Definition für ultraverpackte Füße. Es ist in Plastik verpackt mit mindestens einem Ingredient, den man in einer Standard-Küche nicht finden würde.
Denken Sie an die Ingredient-Liste auf den Füßen in meiner Küche. Ich fühle mich, als ob vieles ultraverpackt ist, für sicher. Ja.
Yeah. And our food is labeled around what we all think of as the components of nutrition, right? Salt, sugar, carbs, fat, protein and fiber. But research shows food is more than that. It's what we do to the food, like how processed it is, that matters. In 2019, a hypothesis was tested where researchers designed two diets and they tested two groups.
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Chapter 4: What are the hidden dangers of artificial additives?
Okay, so if that orange flavor has little to no nutrition, your brain tells you, hey, you gotta eat more of this because there's barely any vitamin C in here. We're not detecting any vitamin C. This, I assume, works out well for food companies who just want you to eat as much as possible. So it's a great business plan, but sounds like a really bad health plan.
Das ist hundertprozentig wahr. Es ist viel Profit. Und wenn du wirklich die Ingredientenliste lesen beginnst, wirst du einen Pattern bemerken, wo der erste Ingredient typisch ein Commodity-Crop ist, wie die vordersten vier sind Fleisch, Soja, Mehl und Korn. Und dann gibt es ein Commodity-Öl, wie Pumpe oder Sonnenblumen.
Ich weiß, dass viele dieser Commodity-Crops auf der Höhe für Farmanimale gegründet werden. Also warum sind sie in meinem Essen auch?
Yeah, well, they grow so much of it for the farm animals that the leftovers are what's thrown into the human food supply. And then they're processed down into powders of fat, protein and carbohydrates. And these powders are low cost. They're really easy to ship and they store for a long time. So all they need is a ton of additives to reconstitute. And then you can turn the powders into anything.
And we do.
Es ist witzig, dass ich als Mensch denke, oh, mein gebliebenes Essen geht in einen Trophäen und dann essen es die Pferde. Mittlerweile essen wir alle das gleiche. Das ist tatsächlich das gebliebene Pferdessen, das in mein Essen geht, richtig? Es ist wie, oh, wir brauchen nicht dieses Palmöl und dieses andere Soja und Korn. Mach ein Serien aus diesem. Gib es Jordan und seinen Kindern.
Du machst es klingen, als ob Additiven eine magische Potion sind. Also was sind diese mysteriösen Additiven, die Pfeffer rekonstruieren und sie in etwas ressemblerndes Essen verändern?
Additives are definitely mysterious. There's about 5 to 15,000 additives in our diets. But the reason we don't know how many are actually used for sure is that for some reason the FDA just doesn't keep a list.
Yeah, for some reason. Okay, so it sounds like it's the Wild West when you see artificial flavor as an ingredient, which is concerning. So what do the additives do? I don't get how nobody cares if those exist and are thrown into everything.
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Chapter 5: How prevalent is food fraud in everyday products?
This guy would show up to the library with a 12-pack of Diet Coke, those long ones that fit in the fridge, and he would just open the top, and then he would slam a can, open another one, drink that can, open another one. By lunchtime, that thing was empty. He would go eat, come back with a fresh 12-pack. So this dude was drinking two dozen Diet Cokes per day, every day.
Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
Oh, gross. Yeah, that's just it though, like diet sodas have so many people hooked. Look at the ingredients in a diet coke, which everybody loves to say that it has no fat, no sugar, no salt, but what are we drinking? So, the ingredients are, the first one is always listed as carbonated water, that's fine.
But the second ingredient, that caramel color, and it has nothing to do with caramel, it's just a nice name describing the color of the chemicals that make soda brown. And it contains sulfates and aspartame, which trick your brain into thinking you're getting sugar. And as we've said, that's a problem, because when the sugar never arrives, your body has a stress response.
Oh my god, he like hides them. I'm just trying to throw everybody under the bus now. Yeah.
So I try not to think about the bone density issues with all the Diet Coke. Obviously, I just drank it. I know. It's all about that fizz, Jordan. Because there's no flat version of Diet Coke. Like, that just wouldn't sell.
That is a good point. Fizz and caffeine. Okay. You know what's actually fit for human consumption? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
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Chapter 6: What role does the Agromafia play in food fraud?
Tasty sawdust.
Ich weiß, die FDA sagt, hey, nur 5% kann Woodpulp sein, okay? Und nehmt es nicht hin, nur um den Gewicht zu erhöhen, damit ihr mehr Geld verdient, okay? Und die Food-Companies sind so, okay, gut. Aber all das kann so schwer zu beweisen sein. Egal, die Castle Cheese Company, sie wurden nicht verurteilt, Woodpulp zu verkaufen. Sie wurden verurteilt, ihre Produkte zu verurteilen.
Ah, so if they had labeled it Wood Pulp Parmesan, then there would have been no problem selling this stuff to everybody. Oh, that's so disappointing.
People would probably be into it.
Yeah, oh, you get the fancy Wood Pulp Parm.
If you test any of those cans labeled Parmesan in every supermarket, I'd be shocked if you found any actual Parmesan. Like usually they're using other cheaper cheeses. I don't know how they get away with it, but they do because the FDA requirements for food are confusing.
I want to try that mahogany parm. Gross. The fact that the government is okay with giving people fake food, to me, is crazy. What regulations are there? I feel like I'm going to regret asking, because you're going to be like, none, but surely at least some barriers exist here.
Yeah, I wish there were more, but FDA recognizes food fraud, but that doesn't have anything to do with healthy ingredients or ingredients at all. If food doesn't make us sick almost immediately or kill us, the FDA is totally happy. Making us sick long term seems to be perfectly fine.
Right, yeah. If it kills you in a few decades, that's on you for eating too much of it.
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Chapter 7: How do common food items like honey and olive oil get adulterated?
Like the actual Mafia?
Yeah, the agro-mafia. It counts for 15% of the mafia's income.
I can't believe that's a real thing. It sounds like something that dorky executives at agricultural companies call themselves. Like, yeah, drinks with the agro-mafia tonight? Alright, I'm in. 7pm.
That sounds fake. I know, the Scorsese farm film. Coming soon or something.
The Goatfather.
Wow. Wow. And it was worth over 13 million euro. The mafia was taking adulterated, low quality Spanish and Greek oils and were exporting it as primo Italian EVOO.
By the way, if it was really in Italy, it was Operation Mamma Mia, right? They have to say it like Mario. And not only did they just name it the most cliche thing you could possibly name an Italian law enforcement operation. But they still found a way to throw shade on the Spanish and Greeks.
It's not that you were exporting olive oil, it's that you were exporting the low quality adulterated Spanish and Greek stuff, which we all know is not as good as the stuff we make here. And you're making us look bad.
Trash olives.
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