Glennon
Appearances
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
That was beautiful. If you're anything like me, you probably take thousands of photos every year. And while I have more photos than ever, they are all stuck on my phone. I never see them in real life. Getting them out of my phone and into my house felt like it would take more effort than I had to offer. This is why I want to tell you how easy it is to create photo books with Shutterfly.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
You can make a photo book about anything that matters to you, your family vacation, a wedding, a graduation, any special life event that deserves to have a physical memory in your home, one that you can revisit anytime and relive. The best part is that it is E-A-S-Y-E-Z. You can use Shutterfly's autofill tool to get a quick start
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
and then go in and add your personal captions and details to make it just right. Shutterfly also offers a free 24 hour designer service, a professional designer that will lay out your entire photo book for you in just one day. Make something that means something with Shutterfly. Enjoy 40% off orders over $29 with promo code hard things. See site for promotional details.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Who doesn't love a little luxury? But I'll tell you what I don't love about a little luxury, and that's that it's a little bit expensive. Until I discovered Quince. I want to tell you about Quince because it is my go-to for luxury finds at affordable prices.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And lately, I have been really into understated, classy, sparkly, everyday things you can wear that end up being fun additions to any outfit if you're casual, if you're in a t-shirt, or if you're dressed up. I'm going to tell you about some things that are under $100.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
The bold paperclip necklace, and then emerald cut topaz dangle hoops, 14 karat gold diamond tiny studs, and the white sapphire bezel hoops. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince. Go to quince.com slash hard things for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash hard things to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I know it's real. Just to Symbiotica, thank you for making my wife so happy.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I guess we're just started. We've already started. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We're already here. We have just seen the face of our dearest Lily Collins. And you and I, Lily, have been waiting for this moment for a long while.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And PodSquad, you should know that every once in a while I get a text from Lily that says, I just listened to the last episode and here are my thoughts and feelings about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
As if I'm in a courtroom and I'm presenting my case for having this feeling. I need to justify this feeling. A hundred percent.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I mean, Lily, I think this is the point. I'm trying to figure out what the point of having friends is. Yeah. No, I am. And I'm learning it now. I think I have always thought that friendship was a burden because what I did with people is I would get to anybody, partner, friend, whoever, and they would say, how are you?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And I would give them a report on maybe a problem that I might've had, how I worked it all out, how everything's fine right now. And here's my report. But what I never did was say anything that I was thinking or worried about right now. I'm struggling with, I'm scared.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Something that you're- Never. One of my kids said to me recently, do you know that when you're with people, you can talk about what you're actually thinking? And I was like, what? No, we're just reporting back and forth on all of the low so many things that we have fixed. So this idea that I could- Do what you're doing. Like say, I don't know what's going on right now. I just feel scared.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I think, Abby, the thing you just said reminds me of something that so-and-so used to say to me. And so it's kind of not about what you just said, but it kind of is about what you just said. You know, it's like that sitting in that trigger place is such a vulnerable place. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And it didn't help that I was like, yes, you have done something wrong. Like I didn't figure out for a while that... I was also responsible for all the things coming up.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
There are so many huge steps between being in a relationship like the one you're in and being able to X number of years later, say, I actually need some time to think through this. I mean, that's a revolution because when you think about the whole point of toxic relationships is that, first of all, we were saying earlier about like, it's important for people to be able to reflect back to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
That's not normal. But in a way, the perniciousness of toxic relationships is like, that's the very point of them. Yes. In my experience, we're not normal. No one can understand us. You and I are the only one that can understand what's happening in this little ecosystem. And everyone else doesn't understand it. So they're going to tell us it's not normal. But it's...
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
So like everyone outside of the relationship is a threat to your relationship. And then in your relationship, the other person is a threat to you. But in this like really weird Stockholm syndrome where you're trying to make it make sense. So, and you lose your personhood, right? There's the idea. Yeah, completely. Your identity is completely rocked. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And then 10 years later, you would have enough personhood to say, I need to take some time because there would be no time to take. There would be no person to go back to, to confer with and make sense of it. If you're in your old way of thinking, because there was no separate person. There was only you in how you related to that person because you dissolve in them.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Well, Lily Collins. Isn't she the sweetest? Yeah. And she's also really smart and deep and just hold on. You'll see. Lily Collins is a Golden Globe nominated actress for author of the international bestselling book, Unfiltered, No Shame, No Regrets, Just Me, and a philanthropist. Collins can currently be seen in the Netflix series, Emily in Paris, just a delightful romp. A delightful wrong.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And you also have to fight against what you have come to believe, which is anything that you think independent of me is stupid and is unreliable. Yeah. doesn't make any sense. So when you go out and try to figure out what you are, you're like, I think I like this, but I'm stupid. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Does it feel big? Like you, you talk about in your toxic relationship that you felt very small and then even, you know, the pod squad can't see you. But when you're talking about your relationship right now with Charlie, your body gets, bigger. You're waving your arms. You're talking about expanding and it's your body's getting bigger as you're talking about it. Does it feel expansive?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I'm trying to figure out how did you end up from the small place to the big place? How did you get out of that bad one? Because we always say like first the pain, then the waiting, then the rising. So like how did you get out of that relationship where you were feeling so small in the smallness?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I've never said those words before in my life, but it really is. For which she received her second Golden Globe nomination. Lily, amazing. Lily launched case study films alongside her husband, Charlie McDowell. Lily's philanthropic endeavors extend to participating in various We Day events and the Geo campaign.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Born in West Sussex, England, Collins moved to the United States at age six and currently resides in Los Angeles.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I don't know what you're saying.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Oh my God, Lily. So you all know I've been using Boca for a while now and I'm into it. Okay. This is like the new toothpaste with lots of different flavors and it's kind of making my mornings and evenings a little bit more delightful. Boca is on a mission to inspire more mindful oral care. Their toothpaste is free from fluoride, parabens, SLS, and artificial additives. It's powered by nature.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
It's a clean, safe way to keep your mouth and body happy. And they have delightful, and delicious flavors like Element. And they also offer cool ones like Cocoa Ginger and Lemon Lavender. And they've got kid-friendly flavors like Orange Cream, Watermelon Mint, and New Strawberry Mango.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
For a limited time, Boca is offering listeners 15% off its best-selling toothpastes on Amazon and Boca.com with code GLENNON15. That's GLENNON15. Make the switch to Boca for the whole family. I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference. That's why I think Alma is so cool.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Lily, this is my sister, Amanda.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience. You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you. whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else. And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
You know, I love that. That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media. It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey. and is dedicated to helping you make progress. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com slash hard things to get started and schedule a free consultation today.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
That's helloalma.com slash hard things. So when did you meet Charlie? And when you met him, did you immediately recognize him as freedom or was he scary as shit to you?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Or both, because we have talked a lot about how when you're used to a certain thing and you're comfortable with discomfort, when you meet someone who represents freedom or peace or joy, you can be actually suspicious.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Oh, listen, this one. oh, you're good. You're fine. Just relax. I'm like, I don't trust your judgment. I don't know if we can trust you, you know? So tell me about meeting Charlie and how that all went down.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
We had the same reaction to you because of knowing about your journey. And it's something that hit me particularly intimately because it's something that I haven't talked a lot about in my life, but this idea of when we're really young, having toxic relationships that we only, at least for me, begin to unearth and really see in an objective way.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Oh, because you were wondering if he was going to belittle that.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Held and free. This is the first time. Held and free. That's what I. Yes. It's like I always thought. You either are held. So you're like safe. Or. But you're not. You don't have any freedom. right? Or you're just out on your own, but you don't have any heldness. So to find a thing where you are both absolutely held and who you are and absolutely free to expand is a miracle.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
But it's not that we're crazy. It's because we've been in places where people did say one thing and mean another thing. Exactly. And that is part of being in an abusive relationship is like, you always feel a little bit crazy because they're saying one thing, but the energy underneath it is completely different.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
So then when you get into healthy relationship, I mean, I just admitted to Abby that when she like looks at me in, a moment and out of the blue says, you look beautiful or you're beautiful. My thought is she's just looked at me, thinks I look terrible and is overcompensating for that feeling and thought by telling me that I look beautiful. Like it is some crazy ass shit, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And I didn't admit that to her for five years. I just told her that like three months ago. But that doesn't come from nowhere.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
The older we get and your journey through that and being so brave and talking about it. I think it's helpful for so many, including me. And then your path to now where you just got married and every relationship has its thing. So we're not going to idealize anything, but the path from an unhealthy relationship to a healthy one is a big journey and it's not a linear path.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
So what's your conflict now? What does conflict look like with you and Charlie now?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I was just going to use one of my favorite terms, which is nonlinear.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Yeah. And Lily, you're talking a lot about bigness and littleness. Yeah. Even your early, your early dreams of like this big thing chasing this little thing, and then it's trying to swallow it or somebody's trying to eat you or you're, you're Toxic X calling you little Lily.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
You talk about being in an industry where you're supposed to shine and stand out, but where women are also supposed to stay tiny and small at the same time. That's confusing. So how, because we've talked about eating things, eating disorders, and it drives me nuts when people talk about eating disorders as just about body image. Like it's all about, oh, I'm just trying to be a certain shape.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
It's patronizing and it's not about that. It's about trying to be safe. It's about deciding that at an early age, not wrongfully, but rightfully so, that it is dangerous as shit to live on the planet in a body, a woman's body. And so trying to mitigate that threat by becoming as small as humanly possible. How is your relationship with bigness and smallness and food going right now?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
A romp of a delight.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Lily, I am so great. This interview, we have to stop now, which is weird because it just started two minutes ago. I know. So sad. I didn't know where this was going to go. I wanted to just kind of talk and feel the difference between unhealthy and healthy and healthy.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
bad and good in terms of relationships and I just keep coming back to when you're in the wrong place you feel small everything feels small and when you get freer with whether it's with yourself or with someone else everything just feels bigger and yeah and having that sense of both held and free in our relationships with ourselves and each other is heaven I think. And I love you, Lily Collins.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I just have to tell you something funny before we stop. We've been talking about you and reading everything and watching everything and listening to everything because we've become so obsessed and deeply in love with the people that we interview. Last night, we've been talking about you for a solid week. Last night, my sister texted me and goes, you are not going to believe this shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Lily Collins is Phil Collins' daughter. I said, yeah, I know that. Some people know that.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
It's like the most unremarkable part about her. She thought she was going to like- Nothing against Phil. Yeah. She thought she was going to break that news. Just FYI, in case it comes up. And we can do hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I know you don't know this, but- We have broken it here.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
So he could have been a big Pac-Man swallowing you up, but you didn't let it. You got bigger and bigger and now you are big Lily and we love you, Lily. And thanks for doing such hard things. And for, because I just think that you really just, just being you and showing up and saying what you did today is going to help a whole hell of a lot of people.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Thank you for all of your work. And Emily and Paris just
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Yay. A delightful romp.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Go watch the romp.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I know. For all of us depressive babes, just freaking go watch Emily in Paris. It's not depressing. All right? It'll get us out of that. It's beautiful. All right, PodSquad. We will see you back here next time. Love. Mwah. Mwah. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
It's so confusing. And I think the age thing is so interesting, Lily. Of course, we know interpersonal violence in relationship happens across every race, across every age, all of it. But we don't, I think we don't tend to talk about it when it happens in younger relationships, because it's like, that's supposed to be like laughed off. That isn't as formative as it is.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
It's only a legitimate relationship if you're an adult. But when we think about it, young women, 18 to 24 are actually at the highest rates of intimate personal violence of any group. And for high school students, one in three of them experience physical or sexual violence. And I think it's so important to bring this conversation to those younger years. That's when I experienced it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I don't know when you did, but I think I was like 14 to 17 when I was in that. And that can seem illegitimate, but it was very big in setting up the foundation for who I chose next and next and next. Yeah, of course it is. I don't know if you talk about your age, but was, were you in that younger group? I was early twenties. Early twenties. So it's still formative.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Thank you for saying that.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
That's so honest and so real.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Sometimes when people are like, do you have a healthy relationship with yourself? I'm like, well, I feel like from 10 a.m. to 10.20, I was having a really healthy relationship with myself. You know, but like if you ask me about 1045 to 1115, it's not.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
But Lily, I'm so glad you brought up that peer group because what I have noticed about relationships that are toxic, I also want for the four of us to talk about what that means. What does it mean to be in a bad relationship, a toxic relationship, an abusive relationship? I can find myself in them now. I just had an interesting relationship in work that was totally unhealthy.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Now, here's what happened. I found myself isolated with this person. And we created this really little toxic situation because there was just the two of us. And it's this weird thing that happens when it's just the two people and you have decided for some reason that you're not going to discuss it in the outer world.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I don't think it's something that just happens to people who are weak or who are this or that. It can happen to any of us at any time and it always gets bigger and more dangerous in isolation, which is why... that high school group or having some of the equivalent of it now. Because the way I got out of it was I described it to two friends.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And two of my friends were like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. That's not normal. Yeah. And then I thought, oh, had I been talking about this with a larger group? It's like the larger accountability groups remind you of what's normal and what's not when you forget. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
What were you doing for those two years?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Like, you want that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Neither does Abby. Me neither. I do. Finding a great mentor who can really help me level up, it's not easy. But my dream mentor, Jodi Foster, she's our friend. So when I heard that she had a class on Masterclass, I was so excited to learn from her. Masterclass is the ultimate way to learn from the best to become your best.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
It's the only platform where you can access over 200 world-renowned instructors. For just $10 a month, an annual membership gives you unlimited access to every instructor. One session that truly has made an impact on me was James Clear's class on building new habits. His actionable tips helped me create a daily routine that really does actually work.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
With 88% of masterclass members reporting a positive impact, it's clear why classes are so effective. Plus, every new membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash hard things. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash hard things. Masterclass.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Bull market or bear market, rising or falling rates, inflation up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball for me? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
With this unified business management suite, you gain a single source of truth that provides the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. Imagine having real-time insights and forecasting at your fingertips, allowing you to peer into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can focus more on what's next instead of looking backward.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash hard things. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things. netsuite.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I know we joke about sexuality, Tig and Abby sexuality, but the truth is, is I think it's really awesome, Tig, that you can hold the space for Stephanie to be able to do that. Not many partners are confident enough in the love and the marriage to be able to do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I mean, that's not 100% true. A little bit. Listen, you sat down at a table one day and you said, we are not standing up from this table until we figure out what I am. Because people kept asking me. All right, let's figure it out. I mean, I know we're married, so. It's hard to figure out after you're married. It really is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That's right. That's right. I think we're at an inflection point, too, in the way that women work, women in business. I have spent my whole fucking life just being like, yes, sure, I'll do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Thank you so much. And it's like, you know. It's half of what I probably could be earning. And recently, I mean, it took this one because she's just stronger than me in terms of holding her boundary, her line for what she's worth. Yeah, of course. I mean, look at her. She towers over me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah, I think a lot of us are in a Tawanda right now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah. It's an invitation to all the other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah. That's going to be the title of this double date.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Thanks, Stephanie. Sorry. So the question is, what do I not want?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
choose to live a life without chaos. And that's good. It's difficult with three children, truly, because a lot of that can feel chaotic and moments, but I don't seek chaos. I was a seeker of chaos for many years of my life. Yeah. And peace is kind of what I'm after. So if I were to say what I don't want, it would be chaos.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And there's a few things that I have to do every single day to achieve, like to have a knowing of that groundingness. Like it's like working out. It's drinking coffee in the morning. Yeah. It's, you know, making sure I'm staying connected with my wife. Like those kind of three elements, like seriously, coffee is that important to me? It rises to that top.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
It's implied. There is just no communication for the first 20 minutes of wakeness. No, that's right. We don't talk to each other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah. That's what you do. You've never, you've never done that. Yeah. You have our bios, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
What are the ones you do every time? We've got like three in the bank that we just keep coming back to.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That issue's still there. Yeah, the resolution wasn't there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That's so interesting to me because I... You're not abandoning yourself. I'm always looking for you to be sorry.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah, this is a 1% of our relationship.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Did you do Don't Ask Tig, too? She was setting up the... I was helping the tech check. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. You don't remember anything that I do for you. Well, I remember Tig. This is what long-term marriage is like.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
$31. That's what's so cool about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Thank you so much for being here in the world. For everything. But seriously, let's meet in person one day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Okay. Oh, this is interesting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Got it. Okay. And you played basketball.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I died laughing because I was like, Tig Notaro's going to watch her friend's basketball game.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I know, but you got it now because I kind of Glennon's like, I wish that I knew earlier. And I'm like, oh, I know that bothers you when I say that. Because I'm like, well, you can't go back in time. Number one. Number two, like that just means you'd be sleeping with so many more women. Right. I'm not into that. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Well, you were also married with three children.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I was also married with three children. Slightly different.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. Going to the Andrea thing, it's like they said, Megan said that Megan had spent so much time hating her body and worrying about the shape of her body and then One day Andrea said, because Andrea had been diagnosed with cancer and Andrea said, I just so badly want to have a body. And it's like on our birthdays, we're like, I want this different kind of life. I want a different life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I want it to be different. And instead of being like, I'm just so grateful to have a life. Yeah. Yeah. And I like what you said about the blessing versus luck thing. I just so reject every time someone says I'm so blessed because of this or that. I know everyone's saying it with good intentions, but it's confusing because it's like, oh, so then the other person's unblessed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Like if you're blessed to have your health, then what is my neighbor doing? like God was less excited to bless them. I like, I'm grateful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Well, let's look at the list that we were talking about of the things that make us miserable on our birthdays. Expectations, the opposite of that is gratitude for whatever's here. Comparison, the opposite of that is gratitude. Existential dread, fear of what will be. Opposite of that is gratitude for what is now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
So it looks like everything that makes us miserable on our birthday could be fixed, undone, if we focused completely on gratitude for whatever is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Mm-hmm. Is it just because everyone's birthday is everyone else's just normal hard day of life? Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's hard to figure that system out. Like, we don't all get to stop on everyone else's day and tell our kids and our job and our family and our sickness and our whatever that this is Jodi's day. It's just a bad system.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Okay, well then. What you doing, babe? Why are you screaming like that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
You know, instead of everyone having an individual birthday, if we had like an international holiday, which was like gratitude of people you love day. And we all on that day agreed that we were going to stop and tell each other whatever. But this June 2nd being her birthday and being everyone else's June 2nd is a tricky situation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. And maybe we don't get it. All year. Maybe most people feel unseen and unloved all year. And then on their birthday, they're like, at least this day, please.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And then you feel like people don't even get that right. I always think of that scene from The Bear where Jamie Lee Curtis is in the kitchen freaking out and she's like, I make things beautiful for everyone and no one makes things beautiful for me. And it was a wild scene. But I think about that all the time that that is a caregiver's internal mantra.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Do you guys have any good memories or stories about birthdays?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I just love the little things about birthdays. So in our family, we always start everyone's birthday with breakfast in bed. Even now, like if the kids are at our house... Craig comes over at like 6 a.m., all like bleary-eyed with his coffee. And we all hang out outside the hallway of whoever's birthday it is. And then we start singing and walk into the bedroom.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And, you know, when they were little, they'd wake up and their eyes would be all big. And they'd be so—because now they're teenagers. And they're like, ugh. But they would be so upset if we didn't do it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And then we sing happy birthday. And then we have our annual family argument about the birthday song, because I insist that the birthday song is done wrong because it sounds like a dirge. It's like, it's a dirge, a funeral song. It's like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Right. Which is better and sounds better and sounds like we're happy you were born and we're not sad you were born. And also it just takes too long the other way. So I have been on a long mission to change the birthday song. Tish last year or a couple of years ago said, mom, could you stop it? Just stop it. And I said, what? Why? I'm making it happy. And she said, do you think it's possible that
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's long because that person gets a moment. Like that person gets to stand there while everyone is looking at them and they get to take it in that it's a purposely beautifully long. And I was like, huh.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Not as an adult. I just remember always feeling like, I don't like this. And I don't know why or how. I just remember feeling like you have the birthday party and then your friends come over and then you're, you feel like, you know, they're guests. So your mom has to be nicer to them. Has to be like, pay attention to them. And there's all people all around. And then you can't win your own game.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Well, it is here and there is where it is. And everywhere. What I do, because I am not a very good person, is that I blatantly withhold my God bless you's when the sneezes are too loud. Are you kidding me? Nope. I can't believe you haven't noticed. I will not say God bless you to a loud sneezer. I hope that the ancient teachings are right and that's where the devil gets right in your body.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. You have to be all polite. I just don't, I would rather not have everyone else to deal with, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I think we know that in our bones. And that is why birthdays take us close to the ache. Yes, that's what I think it is. Birthdays take us close to whatever it is that the swirly purple and black, sequency, swirly cliff we're right next to. We're right next to that thing. And the ache, it's life and death and God and spirit. And we're all going to die.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And we're all going to be taken from each other. And we just have this one brief moment of life. And on our birthday, we are there. with it. And we want people around us to block us from the ache, to keep us in this dimension. And when we're alone, we feel everything because we are right next to the ache, the spirit, what they thought originally. alone.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And that is why birthdays are fucking a lot.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
So because the Christians were like, turns out we're rotten.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Every party needs a pooper. That's why we invited the Christians. Party poopers. Party poopers.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And that's what I do. I do not bless the devil out of your body. If you're going to be so loud as to instill the fear of God in me, then I'm going to hope the devil sneaks right in during that sneeze.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. And like a commodity, are we spending it right or not? It's something that belongs to us that we make decisions about as opposed to it's something that we belong to.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder, is there a way to approach our own birthdays with the limited time we have left on this earth in a way that makes them more satisfying? In a way that avoids expectations, comparison, making it a referendum on our life. We had three friends over last night, actually, to celebrate one of their birthdays. And it was just a very simple, lovely talking on the couch dinner.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And then at the end, we all sat down and I had a little notebook and we talked about Deb's just kind of like intentions and hopes and dreams for the next year. together. And we wrote them all down. And it was really beautiful because as her friend, now I know what she is dreaming of for the next year. I know so much of what's in her heart and what she values and wants. And so now I feel like
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Okay, so... So if you're having a bad day, karma is my boyfriend. Okay. Feeling a little possessed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's not just about next year, finding out if it all came true. It's about knowing what to check in with her about, knowing what's real for her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. And it's not just like a secret wish. I think it's so weird. The birthday wish that we have to keep secret. And then some of us are so superstitious that I'll speak for myself. Every time I'm like making a secret birthday wish and my family's all around me, I want to wish for something for myself. But then I'm like, Oh God, I got to wish everybody stays happy and healthy again.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Cause if I don't, I'm a bad mom. So then I have to spend that on my wish every year. And I, I kind of squander your wish on the health and happiness of your family. Exactly. I just think caregivers should get two wishes. But what do you think are some ideas to like go into our own birthdays without falling into the pitfalls of what makes us sad on our birthdays?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
That's because I did not bless you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
No, karma is a cat on my lap.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
We are so mad at each other. Everyone in our house is mad at each other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
So apropos of nothing, what we have decided to come together today and discuss is... Something that the pod squad has been calling in and requesting as a topic for a long time. And it is because it is something that happens to all of us every single year. And it is something that causes all kinds of complicated feelings inside of us if we The email's, stop yawning. Am I keeping you awake?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I'm trying to record a podcast.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
So what we're talking about is... birthdays and all of the complicated feelings that birthdays bring up in us each year. We have figured it out. We have figured out exactly why birthdays are so complicated and difficult for a lot of us. And I believe that by the end of this podcast, you will have some ideas about how to make your birthday less sucky.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
it out? Okay, I'm so excited that this is recorded. I just feel like I have been suffering for so long with Abby's need to make every bodily function terrifying. Like the sneeze would register on the Richter scale with how loud it is. And even the yawn, which is like a quiet thing. And then there's like an animal scream after.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. I think we're going to fix birthdays today. What do you all think? Or are you too bored to answer?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's your birthday. No, you're not going to sing 50 Cent on our podcast.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. Get busy. Okay. No, that's not even in the song. Get busy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
We're going to party like it's your birthday. We're going to drink Bacardi like it's your birthday. We don't give a fuck because it's your birthday. Like that. All right. I think it's interesting that one of the reasons why I started my friendship journey in the last season where I'm trying to gather and invest in and work on my friendship life is Is because it was kind of catalyzed by a birthday.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Okay. One of my birthdays a couple years ago, I woke up March 20th is my birthday. And I had a lot of birthday messages from pod squatters and people on the interwebs. But the whole day from beginning to end, I got four texts from people outside of my family. Four people, four real life people remembered it was my birthday and reached out to say happy birthday.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And I was like, oh, that feels like really bad. And I sat with it for a while. And then I realized that, in fact, karma is my boyfriend. And if you never write back or call anyone or invest in other people, then they will not invest in you. It was a birthday. Because birthdays feel like some kind of big day where the whole life of you is tested and like spotlit and put into contrast.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's like a referendum on your life. That's how a birthday can feel. That's one reason why birthdays are hard. What do you think, Sissy?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And it's like a forced stillness. It's like for the rest of the days, we can busy up and like conjure up our own worthiness. We can make it so we can call the people. We can show up. We can do the email. We can like busy ourselves up and reach outward to prove to ourselves that we are important and loved and whatever.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
But on our birthday, it's like this different posture where we just have to sit there and wait if other people reach out to us. Like we can't put ourselves in their lives. We have to see if they care enough about us to leave their own lives and reach out to us sitting in our house.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Well, that's good. So who's loud? Who's the loud sneezer?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. It's like all nostalgic. Yeah. Nostalgic can make us sick. Okay. So if you really think about how we've set up birthdays for ourselves in our culture, we have made a pile of things that drive us nuts, that actually make human beings miserable. So birthdays are based on number one, expectations.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
We have this idea that's just hidden from everyone else of what we hope will happen or we think should happen or we expect should happen based on this or that or that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Our secret expectations. Expectations are just, you know, as we all know, they're just resentments just waiting to happen, right? So expectations are a nightmare. That's what birthdays are based on. Number two, they're based on comparisons. The more I think about it, everything is comparison. Today- Is my birthday.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I am today comparing myself to everybody else who had a birthday this year, who posted on Instagram, who has 20 friends where I have two, who has this cake where I have this one. I'm comparing myself not only to other people, but myself last year. Like, did all the things happen this year that I thought would? I'm comparing myself to where I thought I would be at this age.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Like when I was young, I was 47. I had this, I had this, I had this, I had this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. For some people it is. Yeah. So comparison, expectations, comparison, then existential dread.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I think a lot of people would say it's getting older that makes me upset every year. That's just existential dread. That is one thing that I actually don't have. Every time there's an anxiety or a worry or misery that I don't have, I just want to say it because it makes me so happy. Yeah, you're not weird about getting older. No. This is my theory.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I had a really rough go of it as a young person because of addiction and all the things, so My life keeps getting better the older I get. I just keep being happier because the beginning was rough for me. So I would never want to be younger. I wouldn't go back for all the money in the world. But you, sister, I think you do have, you told me that you have some worry each year about aging or
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
And before we do that, before we get to the why, in addition to all of these apparently indiscriminate firings that are changing lives, isn't there also a sort of ethos being injected into all of these departments where they are encouraging people to turn each other in And so distrust, kind of McCarthyism-esque. Is this what's happening?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Jessica and Amanda and I had a plan yesterday of what to talk about today. And then Jessica texted us this morning and said what we have to talk about today, what's happening right now. ist of maximum importance and we have to change course and talk about the breaking news.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
So Jessica, what do you hear in that?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
But it's a loyalty test. It's a smart way. That sounds silly, but it's actually not. It's saying, whose side are you on?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Jessica, du weißt, der alte Edmund Burke-Quote, die einzige Sache, die notwendig ist für den Triumph des Schicksals, ist, für gute Leute nichts zu tun. Wo ist der andere Seite? Wo sind unsere Steuern und Gegebenheiten? Wenn unser Zuhause überwacht wird, wo sind die Leute, die verantwortlich sind? Wo sind die Demokraten? Wo sind die Juden? Gibt es irgendeine Resistenz?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Can we get to the why of all of this? What is the most educated guess for why this is happening? Because it's not an accident. They're not just thoughtlessly breaking before they can fix. This is all purposeful. So why do you think that this is happening.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
So, Jessica. Amanda, is there anything you want to say before we start?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Is that okay? Jessica, the worse the news gets, the more straight You'll see my hair because I like to wake up and control what I can control. Right? I completely get it.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Yeah, so if you were planning that and if you were a Peter Thiel or a Musk and you'd been planning this for a very long time and you'd find your candidate, right? Somebody who could put out as like a dummy leader like, you know, the evangelicals did with Reagan or however this plays out. And you could control him. You might pitch that to him over time. You might fund his campaign.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
He might say the quiet part out loud every once in a while. Like, don't worry, you won't have to vote again. We're fixing this. Right? Does this all sound... Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
And can you assume, Jessica, that we don't know what she was just saying?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
No, no, no. That's great. I just want to make sure that we're explaining what actually is happening with Russia.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
einen gewissen Niveau von Balance und Weltfrieden, so nahe wie wir es erreichen können, sie rutschen einfach hin und brechen all das auch.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
And Musk often making what appeared to be Nazi salutes and then saying that wasn't real. Right? Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Untertitelung. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Let's talk about little Minnie Musk.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Hast du nur gesagt, Elon Musks Sohn X? Ist sein Name X? Ja. Okay, geh' weiter, geh' weiter. Ja.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Was ist da passiert?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Wow.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
But also it feels every parent, one theory. I know the moment when my children, when they were smaller, like I have a child who once turned to someone and said, oh, come on, that's bullshit. Okay. Okay. Okay. I don't know if that was as zenny as we hoped, but it was funny.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Okay, well, I just want to say that this is a really, really hard time. And in this hard time, I am so grateful for both of you, for your clarity, for your courage, for your insight, for your knowledge, for being willing to even do this. I just am feeling deeply grateful for both of you. Is there anything that either of you want to leave with our precious pod squad?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
It's not calm like floating on a cloud somewhere away from reality. I think of our version of calm as what Abby used to call ice in the veins. So like during a huge game where the other team was just messing with them, trying to get them to foul so that they would Lose the game. The other side was screaming at them.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
And then Abby said that somebody would always scream to each other, ice in the veins. Ice in the veins. It's that kind of calm. It's strategic, clear, unshakable. We're about to fight to win this game. Calm. Yes. Yes. Amen. Love you both. We can do hard things. Bye. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey oder wo auch immer du Podcasts hörst.
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What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Und dann klickst du auf das Plus-Signal in der linken rechten Seite oder klickst auf FOLLOW. Das ist das wichtigste für den Podcast. Während du da bist, wenn du uns eine 5-Star-Rating und Review geben und einen Episode mit einem Freund teilen würdest, wären wir sehr dankbar. Wir freuen uns sehr auf dich.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Hi, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we have a conversation, an episode of calm news, but I will tell you right off the bat that I'm not feeling super calm this morning. We have some really, really serious, important things to talk to you about today.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
As you well know, our dear friend Jessica Yellen is here with us to talk us through what's going on right now in this moment in our country, which is very difficult. serious. We are going to get through this together. We are going to, as my sister told me this morning, we're going to not turn away from this, but we're also not going to leave you with it, with nothing to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
So a bunch of 20-jährige Hacker haben jetzt gefordert und benutzen die Macht, wer auch immer sie wollen, um Informationen über individuelle Amerikaner oder Bereiche der Regierung zu erzeugen. Und hat es jemals einen Zeitpunkt in der Geschichte gegeben, als ein privater Bürger so viel Zugang oder Macht hat?
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
We are going to take in what's happening in the country. We are going to metabolize it, process it, and give us all something to do so we do not feel helpless because we are not helpless. And if we believe we are, then we are. If we believe we aren't, then we aren't. So we will give you something to do after you take in this news.
We Can Do Hard Things
What is Elon Musk Doing to America Today & What Can You Do About it? Calm News with Jessica Yellin
Oh mein Gott.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
No, it's a totally different model. Do you get paid more? Like, do you actually, the women, right. So it doesn't translate to actual paycheck. Yeah, they don't even get paid really. It's like we get bonuses for winning. No, but I mean like in the WNBA.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. Sue is on below deck.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
In many parts of the world, it's officially too cold to do anything. And I kind of like that because I can cocoon myself in Bombas socks, slippers, and underwear all winter long. The merino wool socks, they feel as cozy as a ski lodge on a winter weekend. But if you're brave enough to hit the slopes or go for a snowy run, Bombas has athletic socks built for that too.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
What I really love about Bombas, though, is how they've thought of every little detail. They've removed itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit so no more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. And here's the very best part about Bombas. Every Bombas purchase helps someone in need. For every item you buy, they donate one to someone facing homelessness.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Plus, if you're not completely happy with your order, Bombas has a 100% happiness guarantee, free exchanges and returns, Yes, please. So try Bombas now. Head over to bombas.com slash hard things and use code hard things for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Okay, so you DM'd Sue about social justice before the kneeling, before your kneeling. So would you say that, because- I secretly believe that the WNBA is in charge of the world. Yes. I really do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Holy shit. So would you say that that influenced you? Oh, yeah. Good question. The WNBA? The WNBA influenced you and the way that you decided to take on the kneeling role. Do you think there's any way that that was influential to you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. So amazing. And would Sue, that was mostly black women led, right? Is that the way that it, yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
2020. Yeah. She was already a senator. Yeah, but I remember seeing the Vote Warnock t-shirts. And I remember being like, who's that? Yeah. So how weird is that? That like, you know, a year later, we were all like, this was my idea. But that team was the first. And that was so brave and amazing. Like, wasn't that the owner of Loffler was the owner of the team? And these women all walked out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
with Boat Warnock t-shirts on, so badass.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And then you think about how much attention and credit women's soccer gets for things. Yes. It's so fascinating and... Well, Megan and Sue, why would you say that women's soccer tends to be more celebrated in this country than the WNBA is?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today, we are inviting you to a...
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. My massive sports background. So you had all these meetings and run-ins. Sue, when did you know, oh shit, I'm in love with Megan?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I mean, obviously she liked Megan when she was so nerdy and was trying to like be cool at the- at the Olympic thing. Right. But like, when were you like, Oh, and by the way, I want everyone to know who's listening, that they just had like a little, which is what we always do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So that's, like, the first... So she's never cared about being a host this much. And she does right now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. All right. Let's do this. Okay. Megan and Sue. Here we are. And I just want to explain to you what the hell we're doing here. Okay. Abby and I decided... A while back that we were going to try to have friends.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
But you don't want to stop and say, actually, that was Megan.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Like we were just going to actually talk to the people that we call our friends. Yeah. But we don't want to go anywhere or really do anything about it. So what we decided was that we were going to have double dates on the podcast. So then we made a list of all of the people that we wanted. to have a double date with. And it kept just saying Megan and Sue.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I mean, Megan, since you've known Abby for so long, I want you to know that I spent the first four years of our relationship trying to quiet her down. Like I thought maybe I could just, if we keep talking about it, I could just lower her volume. Like that's never going to fucking happen. No, I, my responsibility is just to go dead inside.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And like, that's my job as a lover. is to slowly die to that wish. And like for you, I'm never going to put things back in the right place.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah, because what Megan's saying, if I say to you, I'm sorry, that implies that I'm going to do it differently. And I am never... Ever going to do it differently.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Not going to happen. No. And it doesn't go well, Megan. Although when I try, it doesn't go well.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Really? Do you? Do you think that? Do you think someone tell you that or you just? Is that your opinion? Who told you that? Because they lied. Yeah. Who told you that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So interesting. I love what Sue said.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet. That having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference. That's why I think Alma is so cool. Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience. You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else. And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard. You know, I love that. That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's actually typical for us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey. and is dedicated to helping you make progress. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com slash hard things to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's helloalma.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I know it's real. Just to Symbiotica, thank you for making my wife so happy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
We talk a lot on this podcast about boundaries. Have you all had to, during this weird time, established any challenging boundaries with each other or with anybody else in the world that you can think of? Like family of origin stuff, the world. You guys have to deal with the world often and its feelings.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. It's like because it gets very arbitrary. It's like the Goodwill hunting. It's like, do you want to get together and have some caramels? Yeah. It's like, what the hell else do you do?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That is such a huge situation. My sister and I. I mean, I can get on the phone with her and say, I don't like that person looked at me weird. In 20 minutes, we're both homicidal. We're both plotting the death of that person and how we can get away with it and remove the body.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
But I will tell you that there's, I believe there's an appropriate level of whippedness that everyone needs to get to because I also don't like, I think our dynamic is I'm whipped. And then you try to unwhip me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
You know, when you're whipped up about something and somebody's like, well, I mean, let's look at it from their perspective. And you're like, okay, no.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
There's like a happy medium. What's helpful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I like being sad. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Cause I can like get to the thing and then get to the, what we're going to do and then be done because that's what my work requires of me. And you're like, Oh, but for the rest of the day, I'm like, but is the world ending?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
okay i want to ask you guys some quick questions like just a little rapid fire type thing but it doesn't have to be rapid because i've never we'll do our best but sometimes i've never it's not i've never done a rapid thing in my damn life so i try to do rapid i'm like well i need to give context don't worry about your rapidity okay um which one of you is the more jealous one and do you ever get jealous
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's always a fun conversation. I've had it a few times. I can't ever speak to you again. Nor can I explain to you why. Why?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's so interesting. That's amazing to me. So is the fact that I feel jealous of certain people, and I haven't been jealous for years, but that's also because we haven't seen any other human beings probably.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
COVID has made me a more mature person. But is it because I feel actually threatened? That's so embarrassing. I don't know. I don't either. I'll think about it. Okay. What do you guys do for fun?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
This is a theme for us. We try to figure out what is the thing that you do that isn't related to like your productivity or that you get nothing out of except for enjoyment.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Like activities? She wants me to play a fucking sport with her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
What are the questions? Cause I feel this way. I want you to understand that this is not a sporty spice thing. I think you're alluding to that because you just only called out Abby, but January is a, just a pit of existential dread all the time for them.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's magical to me. So do you all like the same sorts of people? Like is making friends hard for you? Are most of your friends queer couples? Yeah. Do you ever have a couple where you're like, I don't like her, but the other one does? It feels like it's so easy for you the way you're talking about it. You have. I have. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
What's the most important thing to each of you and a friend and what's a deal breaker?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
We just did this whole thing about friendship and that's the science of friendship is like it should be 100% or nothing. That we all have this idea that relationships should be suffering, but actually friendships are the ones things we get to choose, right? Like we don't get to choose our freaking family. Once we get married, we don't really get to choose our partner. That's like done deal.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
But our friendships are the one thing that we can be like, no, 100 or zero. It's good. No friction.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Thank God. Okay. We kept you for too long already. This is called We Can Do Hard Things. What's the hardest thing you're dealing with right now before we leave in your life? What's the hardest?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Is it like the Sunday scaries, but like times a million? Yeah. Is it like on Sunday when everything feels terrifying and you forgot how to be out in the world and do whatever it is you do and you don't think you'll ever figure it out again? Is it like that, but harder?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And that's the beauty of being a woman athlete. There's plenty of chances to make more when you stop.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's how I feel all the time. I don't know if we're going to name this podcast. I hate everybody. It's like Selena's dad said, because both I love. Yeah, it's good. Well, maybe we'll title it. It's like Selena's dad said. I hate everybody. Yeah. But it's just constantly that. This is all such big stuff. And what you're talking about having evolved past...
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
an institution that you have to stay in. I have a friend who talks about a Zen koan, which is like, there's a goose that's growing inside of a glass bottle, right? How do you get the goose outside of the bottle without hurting the goose or shattering the bottle? And I see you, Megan, trying to do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So beautifully where you have this bottle that is so fucked up and so small, but is the only container for these younger women coming up. So, you know, you can't say burn it all down, even though that's what you do want to say, because then you have to come back 20 times and say, I didn't mean burn it down. I meant like put a fire on a little bit. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Well, if we want to know how to do it, we can watch the WNBA. I mean, that is true. The t-shirt the goose has on in the glass bottle of the WNBA will lead the way. Right? We adore both of you. Megan, I've adored you forever, but Sue, I just knew you'd be as wonderful as you are. And thank you, Sue, for your intense gentleness.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I have noticed that every time you start to say something that is a sports metaphor, you start it with, in sports. And I know you're talking to me and trying to help me through. And I noticed that- I see you. And I thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. So good. It's a beautiful thing to come to the sports with beginners. Well, we're lucky.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. I'm excited for it, too. I'm excited to see what happens when they're out of the bottle. We love you. Go do all the things. Try to be quiet when each other is on Zoom meetings. Megan, stop being such a hypocrite. It's so true.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And to the rest of you. Aw, they're so cute. They are so cute. I'm so glad you have each other. All right, when things get hard this week, don't forget... We can do hard things. That's right. See you back next week. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So we were just talking to a good friend, Sarah Paulson, and she was talking about how she's just gotten to this point in her life where she's finally figured out that she knows how to do what she does. Like it's not just one long fluke. It's not like she's tricking the world every time she shows up. She actually tells herself, wait, you know how to act. Like you can do this. It's not luck.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Do you guys feel like you can do sports yet? Or do you still feel like you're just tricking the world every time? And when you get a trophy or whatever you get, you're like, oh, thank God I tricked him again.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's horseshit though. The second you figure out how to do it, it's like, that reminds me of, I think I'm in perimenopause right now. That reminds me of that. It's like, okay, I'm crushing it. I'm a badass. I am like, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks about me. I am out there doing my thing. And it's like, oh, but I'm going to have hot flashes every four minutes. Like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
That's how old I am. You couldn't pay me. You're such a slacker. I can't understand what you're saying right now because I haven't listened. I keep going back to the fact that Megan Rapinoe just called a bunch of people on the team the kids. I feel like a great grandmother right now. If Megan is referring to, wow, so you're like the old person now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Just keep up. You guys should become, well, you already are, but if you're a writer, you don't have to give a shit about your body. I don't even have to like make it up the stairs.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I know it was destined because we have been so delighted all morning because we knew we were about to see your face and we haven't seen you for a while. I know. I miss both of you so much. First of all, I should tell everyone what's happening. There are a lot of people listening and they're like, this is a lovely conversation, but who's talking? What's happening? Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
You've talked about that in your career.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
How do you do that? And then that's what you're doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And then that's why it's not working.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
They're like, she's a marketer, not an engineer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Yes. We have... over time noticed those that the pod squad here and we can do hard things has 40 million questions about being a woman in the workforce or really being any kind of marginalized human in the workforce. And I want to answer their questions, but I am not really in the workforce. I am mostly in the bathtub. Confirmed. Right. So we,
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I love you so much. And it's amazing when you think about I don't know how to put this into words, you will, but like how the corporate world and the whole world uses words that cover the racism and the misogyny, uses words like professionalism.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
When what it really means is whiteness.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
So... Mm-hmm. well, we just want you to wear this. We just want you to talk like this. We just want you to, because it's professional. Yes. Without dissecting what they're actually saying by professional. White maleness, not just. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Because that's what you're doing for the people that come behind you. Yes. That's the difference between freaking diversity. Because especially for a woman like you, when they hire you, they say, we want you for your perspective. We want you for your story. We want you for your whatever. Of course. And then the second you get there, that's not what they want you for. No.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
They want you for their sheets that says, we have her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Decided, Abby and I, that there really couldn't be any more qualified human being on the earth.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
That's why it's not working. At the end of the day, Bose, is it that A lot of places want to say and get credit for wanting to change. But at the end of the day, that's the last thing that's wanted.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Ever. To discuss and guide the world, really, through the minefield of work and womanhood. And that human being is Bozema St. John, who also happens to be a dear friend of mine. of ours. Can you introduce? Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Oh, an easy question. That's interesting. What's the hardest part of communicating with white women?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And how would that play out? Because again, we're talking about alignment. So when white women who say, I'm aligned with you because we're women, you're black, I'm white, but I'm aligned with you. Do you see it at? Throughout work, throughout. Oh, yeah. Really, the alignment goes the other way. Really, when the shit hits the fan, the alignment, white women align with the power.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I'm just excited to hear this. I just feel like people are going to feel so... Well, I was actually thinking about share the mic because when you said, is anyone hearing my story? That's what I remember you saying to me. You said, I'll never forget one sentence. You said, I'm just, I'm screaming into the wind. I'm screaming into the wind. I said, how are you or something?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And you said, I'm just, I'm screaming, but no one's hearing me. I'm screaming into the wind.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And then that was a question that led to so low, so many questions. Because then you and Lovey... Yeah. Right? You and Levy came back and were like, you had a whole. You guys, in the 12 minutes, you had a whole plan. Do you remember what happened next?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I don't check WhatsApp anymore.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Oh, you guys.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Speaking of miracles, can we talk about that daughter of yours? I think, you know, Instagram land. is really big on love stories and we as a culture tend to value most of the romantic ones, but I swear to God, I have goosebumps already and you all don't know what I'm going to say, but I'm just saying that the love story of you and Lael has got to be one of the most beautiful ones. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Do you listen to your bio and say, what is my life? What did I do? What?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Being told right now. I mean, and for those of you who don't know, you'll have to go. We'll put all the links to Boze's social so you can see all of her genius, but also see this love she has. Just tell us about Lael and what are, even like right now, from where you are in the world and what are your dreams for her?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
We met those. Yeah. On the Together Twitch. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I walked into your room and you were already there. I told Abby this morning, the first thing I noticed about you was your clothes. Abby said, is it okay to say that? Is that objectifying? And I was like, I don't know. It's both. I'm just going to, it's fine.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Well, we started this interview with you saying there is no math that says that you should be here where you are in this world. There is also no math that says the little warrior should be where she is. And yet you both... Our freaking warriors, gorgeous warriors, a beautiful love story. When The Urgent Life is ready, will you come back here, please, to tell us the story? I would love to.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I just cannot wait, Bose. I cannot wait. Please send me that book as soon as it's ready, okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And the next right thing for all of you pod squatters is just to go back and listen again. Okay? And then pretend when Bose is giving her pep talks to herself that it's for you. Because you are also a miracle.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
All right. Bose, go do all of your million important hard things. We love you forever. We will always be in your corner. I love you so much. Thank you. We will talk soon. Thank you for this. Thank you so much. Carry on, warriors. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I thought you were the most incredibly beautifully dressed human I'd ever seen. And I was intimidated because of your fancy, were all the words behind your name. When you were on stage though, talking. What I was telling Abby this morning that I was most struck by was you were so bold and strong when you were talking about work in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And then the conversation switched to your daughter and motherhood. And then this unbelievable vulnerability came forward. This softness. You just never see both.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Yeah, you're strong and soft are both so. Do you remember meeting us? Were we rememberable?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
So one of our themes this year on this pod is how to know when to dig deep and stay and how to know when to stop digging and go. this is something that we have not figured out yet. Okay. Just to preface you with that. But I keep thinking of it in terms of you because I've read some quotes that you've said recently. So you recently left Netflix where you were the global chief marketing officer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And you said this, you have to know when time is up and keep it moving. And then you said, you don't have to be the savior. You can save yourself too. So, Chills, how did you know when it was time to leave Netflix? Like, how do you know when it's time to leave a place? What settles in?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And everyone will know. And God is like the GPS. That's like redirecting, redirecting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
It's so fascinating, Bose. I've never heard anyone describe it like that. But it is like at some point, whether it's a marriage or a job, relationship, whatever, at some point you realize, oh, it's me either way. Because either it's me in this situation that's making it hard or it's me that made the decision before to go into this relationship. Yes. It's me. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
You have the moment where you're like, either way, it's me, whether it was me that got me into this or it's me that's making being in it hard. Yeah. I'm choosing me. Yes. I'm choosing me. I'm getting the hell out. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Oh, that's good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
It's that thing about when you grab onto barbed wire, don't just hold on forever. Like, don't keep making the mistake because you've put so much time into making the mistake. That's right. The quickest, we always talk about the squishing the time, like all of our suffering comes in the time between the knowing and the doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Since November, Abby, Amanda, and I have been planning, dreaming up ways for this community to show up for each other, take care of each other, and continue building community. But you know that several months ago I quit social media, and the effects of that quitting on my nervous system, mind, and heart have been as dramatic as when I quit drinking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
When I, as a queer woman in a same-sex marriage who is raising queer children, hear news about rights being taken away about the future of this country that might be threatened for my children and me and my family. I have to remind myself when I read and when I listen, what Jessica is saying right now in my home, in my body, I am okay. Right now I'm looking at my child they're okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Not because I'm bypassing, but because the next moment is going to come. And then the next moment is going to come. And what the world and those children are going to need is a clear, calm, prepared mother who is thinking clearly and thinking creatively. There is no moment where my clear-headedness and calm does not make me a more effective leader.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
If I am panicked constantly, I will not be the leader and the mother that they need when the moment comes for me to activate. So that just in terms of it is not bypassing, it is good leadership.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And if you have friends that you think want to be part of these offerings in this moment, email them, tag them, whatever you need to do to get the newsletter to them because I won't be promoting it heavily on social media. Now, I can promise you two things about this newsletter. I will be writing to you directly. It will be me. I miss writing to you directly. I'm gonna do it on the newsletter.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
That's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. If you're the pilot of a plane, which we all are, metaphorically, we are all leading our own lives. Some of us are leading other people who are passengers on the plane. We are all leading. It is the wrong idea to think that the pilot who is screaming and panicked and fired up and losing their mind is the strong pilot. Okay? That is not the pilot you want.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Even when there are problems on the plane. Even when it feels like the plane's going down. Then more than ever, you need a clear-minded, calm, strong pilot. pilot. So that's what we're doing here. Right, Jessica? Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
It might be the only place that I'm doing that. And two, I will never sell or give or whatever people do with emails, okay? I will keep them safe and sacred. So here's what you do. Go to glennandoyle.com. You will see a signup box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address. If you're on Instagram, go to my page, click the link in bio.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And if we want to have our wild and precious lives.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
It is about being effective for the next steps for the world. But it is also because we have a birthright to joy, to calm, to peace, to creative lives where we are waking up and figuring out what do we want to do with our time, energy, money, day, love. That we are not constantly in reaction, that we have agency and access to the lives that we want. 100%.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Ahead of the story. That's good. Also on the ride, pod squad, listen, even that language is helpful. When you say that, Jessica, I know what that means in my body. I know when I'm on the ride. It happens so fast. It's like a hijacking of me. I feel it, an intensity building on the inside. What does it feel like for you to be on the ride? Even identifying it is helpful, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
You will see sign up for newsletter as the second button. Click the button and submit your email address. That's it. We are going to keep showing up for each other. The invitations will start coming soon on the newsletter. So go register now and I'll see you there. Jessica Yellen, our dear friend, is the founder of News Not Noise, a pioneering Webby award-winning independent news brand.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Yeah. It's to care enough. It's not that you don't care. It's to care enough. To do the work in order to be effective, even though it feels different. It feels different than constant outrage. Because it's interesting when you say that, I think, okay, the example I gave earlier about learning about queer rights being taken away and my ultimate fear being that that reaches my home.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
If I'm really honest, that's what I'm thinking in that moment. When I'm losing my mind in my home, it has already reached my home. Yes. It is very interesting to be terrified that bodily autonomy will be taken from us. Let's practice now. Let's be in charge of our own bodies and our own nervous systems.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
If we don't want our bodies to be controlled by Donald Trump and Elon Musk, how about we start today? Right? Okay. Let's practice. And I think that as long as we're experimenting with this, we'll start with a mini discussion like this to reground us in why we're doing what we're doing. But now let's do some what, Jessica.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
When we talked about this episode, we thought let's start with three things that you think the pod squad needs to know and why.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Thank you, Jessica. Thank you. Now, let's get started by talking about what these motherfuckers are up to now, she said so calmly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Okay. I have a beginner's mind question about that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
How is Elon Musk getting access to all of this? How has that power been given to him? And is this is what we're seeing the move from democracy to oligarchy, meaning is this where a government just starts to be run by some business leaders who are very rich and get access because of that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Over 1 million subscribers and followers across IG and other digital media rely on Jessica and News Not Noise to understand what matters, which experts to trust, and to manage their information overload. She is the former chief White House correspondent for CNN and an Emmy and Gracie award-winning political correspondent for ABC, MSNBC, and CNN. Hello, pod squad. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Today, we are starting and trying a new thing. The new thing we are trying today is calm news. Calm news. I'm going to share with you the origin of this experiment. Last November, I started to slowly and then all at once lose my mind.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
It's been wild, and it's been extremely important for me to experience. Since that quitting, I have felt calmer, braver, and clearer, actually. And in the midst of that, we have come up with some honestly terrifyingly realer and more embodied ways to connect with you and as a community than on social media. I want to keep showing up for each other
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Can I say back to you what I think I've heard you say in a way that is a new person to all of this just so I can see if I'm understanding it in general. So is this a bit correct? We know that
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
I hit a point in my life where I realized that paying attention each day to the news as it was presented to me in a way that made every moment feel terrifying and urgent and insane was making me ineffective, was hijacking my nervous system in a way that made me not able to be the human being the mother, the activist, the writer, the thinker that I want to be.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
During the Trump campaign this time, Elon and Donald became tight and Elon was contributing huge amounts of money to the Trump campaign with the plan and hope that as soon as Trump was elected, Elon would then become Trump's special guy. What's the name?
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Of the country. Okay, great. What could go wrong? Okay, so, ooh. Just went on the ride, coming back. Sorry. No, no, no. That was me. That was good. Catching myself. Okay. So now that plan worked. So now Elon is Donald's special guy. And so he gets to create a department almost. He gets to create his own team.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And that team of Elon's is sort of infiltrating all the different branches of government with what they are saying is their express goal of kind of cutting the fat, making it more efficient. And he has what is unprecedented levels of access without any typical or measurable vetting or... or understanding of what the goal is. Or oversight. Or oversight. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
So in terms of witnessing, that is helpful. I understand in general what is going on with Elon. Thank you, Jessica.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
I mean, we are on the wildest timeline. Okay, let me ask you, I would like to do one more because I think usually we will give people three things, but since we did such a beautiful introduction, let's choose one more and then call it a day. It's enough practice for the day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And I started to understand deeply that it was designed that way, that I wasn't alone, that the news as it was presented was not just to inform me, it was to scare me, to keep me addicted to the television, to keep me addicted to the phone. And not only did I realize that it was ruining my life and my days, but it was stealing my humanity. I was slowly starting to feel a real us in them.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
So two things. First of all, can you, Amanda, do what I did with the first one with that? Can you say back to Jessica what you heard her saying, what you would report to someone who wasn't listening to this in a clear, concise way, what she just said?
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
I was slowly starting to be unable to see the humanity in people who thought different than me. I was in a silo. And the whole thing, as we say in recovery, just became unmanageable. I decided at that time that I was going to stop, just turn off the televisions and stop. and try to reclaim my sanity.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Does that sound right, Jessica? A plus. Okay, great. Can I tell you just before we end what my nervous system story is about this? I just think there should be like a nervous system story because there is a point at which you're talking where I start hearing wah, wah, because. No, no, no. And this is, I want to train.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
I'm going to train myself throughout this process because my nervous system story is there's a home invasion. we had a system and now there's been a home invasion and there's no one to call because the people who are supposed to come fix it don't have the power or organization to hold the line and hold these home invaders accountable.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And I'm scared about that because I just saw the ineffectiveness of the people who are supposed to hold home invaders to account because of all that went down in the last election and the inability to hold a line and hold leadership and hold precedent. That is my nervous system story, that now no one is in charge except for people that I don't trust. So is that a story that is untrue?
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
We also needed a vision for reform. We also needed that. And we didn't have it. And... I'll tell you what, they're clear with their vision.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
and new and new beautiful let's take one more deep breath and end with that all right ready everybody all right pod squad thank you for that we'll see you back here next week when we'll try this again calm news the third way thanks pod squad If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Fast forward a few months later, I started to feel better, calmer, and also deeply irresponsible because I do not want to pretend that there are only two ways, that I either, one, stay addicted to the news as it stands, or two, put my head in the sand and not know how to lead, how to react, how to prepare my children for the world that they are entering. And I realized there had to be a third way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
During that time, the LA fires happened. My dear friend, Jessica Yellen, came to stay with me during that time because her house was in the line of danger. She sat and stayed at my house for four days with her little dog, Bruno. Oh my God, I miss him. And what happened was that Jessica, as many of you know, she's the founder of News Not Noise.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
She's a Webby Award winning news reporter, but she's been in this realm for a very, very long time. She's not only a master reporter, but her entire life has been dedicated to figuring out how to do the news differently for people so that they can ingest what's going on in the world. in a way that makes them more effective, more thoughtful, and more helpful in healing that world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
For four days, she sat with me and I felt the effects of that kind of news reporting. She explained to me what was going on in ways that allowed my nervous system to stay calm and my mind to activate. She explained things in such a way that my children, I watched them their very fearful bodies calm. There was no bypassing. There was no pretending. There was no fake positivity.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
There was real delivery of what was going on in the world in a way that was honoring of truth and also of humanity. And at that moment, I realized, oh my God, this is the way. This is the way. We must create this third way for people who want to be informed, want to be educated, but also want to be healthy and effective. Enter Calm News. Today, we are experimenting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Our dear friend, Jessica Yellen, is here to begin to discuss this third way, how we can do the news in a new way, and perhaps maybe that we can do it together. Jessica, welcome.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Can you talk to us a little bit about this new third way? Because often my experience in life is that I lose my mind, like what I explained earlier. I believe this is my personal problem. right? I take it to therapy. I take it to all the places. I try to figure out what is wrong with me. And then when I start to talk about it, I realize, oh no, this is a universal problem.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And I want to keep building community now more than ever, but I don't want to do it on social media anymore. So here's what I'm telling you today. Soon, I'm going to be inviting you into something special. And the invitation is first going to go to you through my new newsletter. Okay, I have a new newsletter and all of my invitations.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And based on the mass exodus from news that has happened over the past year, it strikes me that perhaps a lot of people were feeling the way that I was feeling. Can you explain to me your take on that and how you think it needs to be done differently and how it can be done differently.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
and Abby and Amanda's invitations to new projects, new events, all the beautiful offerings we're planning are going to come to you first on this newsletter. All right, now listen, if history proves to be an indicator, what will happen is the newsletter will go out. Everyone who receives the newsletter will sign up for these offerings and then they will be sold out. That's what happens.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Wow. So before this recording, PodSquad, Jessica called me and basically said, because not only is she a beautiful reporter, but She also knows her friends well. And she basically said in a nutshell, how are you going to stay calm? Like, don't forget. Calm news has to be calm. So talk to us a little bit about witnessing mind and what you're going to bring to us some news. What can we bring?
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
This is a mutual, the pod squad will need to bring something specific as you bring something specific. What is the listener need to bring to this sort of news to make the outcome what we want it to be, which is clarity, calm, and efficiency, in what to do next.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
And then everyone gets sad and mad who didn't get the invitation in And since I am in my programs, I know that will not be my responsibility. But still, I don't want it to happen. So please sign up for the newsletter now so you won't be sad or mad later.
We Can Do Hard Things
Calm News with Jessica Yellin: Stay Sane AND Informed
Can I stop you right there? Because I want to just give an example of that, because that feels so important to me. And what I want the pod squad to hear is not- What you're telling yourself is all these problems might be happening to other people, but it's not happening to you. So you're fine. That is not what we're saying. What we're saying is, and I'll give you an example.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Strong opinions. That is interesting. It's just any time that you kind of affix some kind of immutable to it is when you get in trouble. If you're like, yes, it absolutely is horseshit. I know that with certainty. It's like maybe you're in trouble because if it is part of your creative expression, then someone might be certain about themselves in this moment.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
And maybe in the next moment they have a different certainty about themselves. So maybe you get in trouble when you ascribe any kind of meaning or certainty for others. Whereas if we just were more concerned about interrogating our own creativity and identity Yeah. And only being concerned with that. Yes. Then maybe that's where it would be rich.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Und es kann auch ein weiterer Teil sein für einige Leute. Weil ich denke, wir leben in einem Weltraum, wo das alles über dich definieren muss. Und du musst raus in die Welt und dein erstes Stand-Up, dein Gay May. Und sie sind so, nein, ich bin ein Comic. Warum bin ich Gay May auf der Bühne?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Oder es gibt Leute wie mich, die, weil ich niemals irgendeine Art von Interrogation von mir hatte, weil ich niemals gefragt wurde oder geforcht wurde, es war nur so, dass ich die Position wahrgenommen habe, literal und figurativ. Ich habe einen unterdevelopten Sinn dafür, weil ich nur so war, wie, schau dir die Box an, keine Fragen hier.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ja, Schwester, stell dir vor, wenn du in einem Interview warst und die ersten fünf Fragen, die Leute dir über deine Sexualität gefragt haben.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ich bin schockiert, weil die Dame suggeriert, dass du einfach falsch darüber bist. Ich weiß, ich weiß.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Yeah, so some of the examples... And the token hetero on this pod, I will say, I will affirm that, that it didn't occur to me... We even did one on sexuality and I was like, oh, okay, I'll just listen to that one.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
The creativity kind of seems at the core of all of this, because if you're getting at the place where you're like, well, what the world is telling me about gender is clearly horseshit. What else is horseshit? Okay, maybe this whole idea that I have to go to school for 12 years and then for four more and then to get the job that I hate, maybe that's horseshit. And you start to get creative.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
And then even with your idea of monogamy, it is so wild that there's this kind of compulsory monogamy as the option. Like, where do you think the creativity shows up in relationships that makes different types of relationships possible? I mean, I'm still figuring it out, but I think that where I've been most successful is where
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
And that's what's the hard part when you're trying to get like, I'm trying to be the truest me, like most authentic to myself. Am I like, am I just saying I want to be the most authentic reflection of the accumulation of my traumas?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Das ist, wo Wet Head für die Rest von uns kommt, die vielleicht nicht so Thrillseekern sind. Das ist vielleicht deine Version, Glennon. Du könntest das probieren.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
So if you, you know, have a coke problem, try Wet Head.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Incessantly or something? Also diving well. Probably strategically, probably not incessantly.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Oh, great. Sister, go. I think... I think I might have the same sexuality as May. Okay. Really? Which is fascinating because my things are bodily identifying you in a group. Like with confidence, with some gesture that suggests that you know exactly what's going to happen. Yes. So things like just staring at you right in the eye just a little too long. Eye contact.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Whatever the opposite of creative scarcity is. Because what I admired so much is that after two seasons of Feel Good, you, even though, like, could have kept that going and kept it going creatively, you were like, no, that is how I want to end that. And I believe that there will be abundance for me in other things. And I think that was so special and probably gave a lot of folks...
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
The invitation to do that, when mostly in Hollywood it's very hard to stop something that you can keep doing. So, kudos to you on that.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Sie hat ihre Hand genommen, ihr Essen auf den Tisch gesetzt und sie auf den Tanzflur gebracht. Wow. Und ich dachte mir, das ist meine Sexualität. Wow. Danke. Und körperliche Bewusstsein von nicht nur sich selbst, sondern auch dir. Also, wenn jemand vorbeigeht, wie sie ihre Hand auf deinem Rücken setzt. Oh, ich hasse das. Und wie man sich bewusst ist, wie...
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ich weiß nicht, es geht um das Bewusstsein deines Körpers.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
You have a fear of hell. That fear of hell was placed inside of you purposefully by many, many confused adults and systems and cultures, okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Right. Now, here's what I am saying to you. If we are going to live our lives in fear...
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Now, What I will say is I know a poem when I see it. I know when we talk about the fires of hell and lots of those things are metaphors. Anyway, some people decided it was literal. They taught it to you. I have some other poetic ideas. If we're going to accept this thing that's going to control our lives out of fear based on some imagery and some poetry, I have an alternative poem to that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Submit to the court. Okay, great, great. And it is as follows. During the time that Abby has been healing from this pinpointed fear of hell passed to her by the Catholic Church and her family, passed from the Catholic Church via her family to her, I have also watched Abby grieve the loss of her brother. right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
So these two things have been tied together for the past year, just tied together, losing Peter, fear of death and hell, just that's been her path. One side of the path is each of those things. I, because of my contempt for and delight in, I am equally appalled by and intrigued by religion. I can't stand it and love it in equal measures.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I want to obliterate it and want to be obliterated in it equally. It's a confusing thing, but I feel like some people really understand that. Because of that, I know a lot about the imagery and the... I just love to read about it. I'd love to study about it. Okay. Peter. Abby's brother, Peter. Judy Wambach is... Abby's mother. And she is just as Catholic as our grandma, Alice.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Like she just named all of her kids after just, you know, saints and various virgin mothers of God. And Abby's real name is Mary. And we've got the Peters and we've, all of them are just named after saints in the Catholic church. Okay. Peter was Jesus's BFF. St. Peter. Yeah. Well, he wasn't St. Peter yet.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Right, right, right. Abby's brother. Well, we don't know. We don't know. He could have been. Right. St. Peter, Jesus' best friend. They're so tight that when they all ascend to heaven, Jesus assigns Peter... the role of being the gatekeeper of heaven, okay? St. Peter's whole gig to the point where his image, his little icon is a set of keys, okay? St.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Peter's role in the church is I decide who gets in and out of heaven. I guard the gates of heaven. I hold the keys to eternal life, okay? So I tell Abby, What I'm here to report to you is that you no longer have to fear any. You can celebrate the future moment at which you approach the gates of heaven. Because guess who's going to be there? Peter. Peter. is in charge of heaven. There is no way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
If there is a line 40 miles long, that guy's going to see his little sister and he's going to say, get your ass. He's going to have a keg there. If heaven is a club, your brother is the bouncer. You are so getting into that club. Exactly. And if I were God, I would put Abby's brother in charge. He is the most open, like everything was a party. Everybody was invited. Everybody's in his.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Do you want to talk about this? I feel like now I'm talking too much. You go and you, you, you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We, the three of us, talked about what we might like to share with you today. And here's where we came to. It is a tough time in Los Angeles where Abby and I live right now. We actually live in a town right outside of Los Angeles. So as you know, we have been
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
In many parts of the world, it's officially too cold to do anything. And I kind of like that because I can cocoon myself in Bombas socks, slippers, and underwear all winter long. The merino wool socks, they feel as cozy as a ski lodge on a winter weekend. But if you're brave enough to hit the slopes or go for a snowy run, Bombas has athletic socks built for that too.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
protected from the fires in our home, but not from the just fear and devastation of all of it because so many of our people are suffering. And we've been talking a lot about what all of this means and the loss of life and the loss of things. And we just thought maybe it would be a beautiful time to rewind a few weeks and talk about
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
It made me feel, at first I was like, are you kidding me? Like, Abby's been suffering with this for decades and based on faulty information a bit, you know, I mean, it's still all still there, but it made me, we're going to be talking to Sonia and Renee Taylor soon about having these important conversations with our kids based on like sex and faith and money and all. And,
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I feel like it has done a major disservice to all of us to consider them the talk. Because we as parents, we're just growing too. And the snapshots of the conversations we have are just snapshots of who we are at that moment. And we are changing and evolving. And how many of us have given our kids the money talk, the sex talk, the faith talk,
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
At a time from which we have changed and evolved and our children are holding on to that version of what we said one day. When I think about sex and the ideas I used to have about sex when I was in the fundamentalist Christian church, which would have been when I was having some of those early conversations with my kids.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
It has to be an evolving conversation that we reveal new thoughts and new doubts and new ideas forever so that we release them from a particular version of that thing. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
happier time, which was our holiday experience as a family together. And that that just might feel like a really cozy, warm, wonderful thing to do today. You know, I have been thinking a lot about my team will start laughing because of the amount of times that I say this, but I'm obsessed with words. So whenever I can't understand something, I just try to go deep into The entomology of a word.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Well, Peter was the one who took care of everyone in Abby's family. And also he was the dude that just always kept a very centered nervous system, like whenever anyone else would get upset. he just handled everything. And so whenever anyone got in a jam or stuck, he would say, well, what would he say, babe?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
So it's engraved on the back. It just says, relax, I'll handle it. Yeah. Because I could see Abby telling Peter how scared she was about heaven and him just saying, relax, I'll handle it. Like leaning on the keg, holding the keys to heaven.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah. It felt like any earlier than that, I felt like it would have been like, I was just trying to distract you or like a patronizing thing. Like there had to be a little bit of space.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah, you were freaking stunned. I was like, oh, I am nailing this report. This is the exact impact I needed this report to have. You looked like you were. I mean, look, it's one of the reasons I love you so much. To me, it felt like the most important moment in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And to you, I could tell in your face that you thought it was one of the most important moments in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I recently learned that I was saying the etymology of a word, which is actually the study of bugs. So entomology of a word means where. Wait, do you have it correct? Yeah. Entomology is words. Etymology is bugs. Are you sure? Never. Never. but I'm pretty, I have a good hunch.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Isn't it cool the idea of like stories? To me, it feels like, okay, so if I were in a movie where I was like suddenly animated and I was in one of those like superhero movies and I had to have like a superpower. I would be like the story person. It sounds so ridiculous.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I know it sounds crazy, but it is. It's like stories are. Ruin lives. Stories divide civilizations.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah. We can rail against bad stories like the amount of times that I could tell Abby that. Oh, come on. Here's all my proof that this is just poetry and imagery. Here's all of the studies. Here's all of the papers about why we decided there was a hell. And this is just a thing made up thing about people. None of that ever worked. Except being like, okay, I see your story. I see your hell story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And I'll raise you a better story. That shit worked. There's some kind of fine... I'll just tell more beautiful stories that can reduce fear and division in a way that I haven't seen battling against a particular story works.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Okay, so it's etymology is the study of words. The irony of this conversation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And knows more and is programmed better. And I do think it's cool to, you know, how we we've talked about when you're in trauma in any way, you can't see, you just can't see outside your little reality. And, I think that we are all on some level in a bit of trauma, which limits our vision, limits our story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Let's just land there. This conversation has gone houry before. Anyway. And it's like the origins. The origin of the word. Okay. The etymology of the word crisis. Stay with me. Okay. The word crisis, the origin of the word crisis means to sift. So listen, this is cool. Crisis, not good, bad, terrible. We try to avoid them.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I've mentioned this before, but remember when I watched our neighbor trying to back out of the driveway and he spent 40 minutes going forward and back, forward and back. I don't think you've drawn this story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Oh, okay. Well, I'm so excited. Are you sure it wasn't me? That sounds like me. No. Well, I'm sure I was watching because that's all I do, but he just kept trying to narrowly, he needed to get out of his driveway. Okay. But the only thing he could think of doing
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
was all I can describe it was go a little bit to the left, a little bit to the right, a little bit to the left, a little bit to the right. But from my vision, I was watching from above because our houses are kind of like, if you think about like townhouses, they're kind of tall. Anyway, I could see right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
He's trying to get out of his, yeah, okay. Yeah, so I was watching it. And from my thing, I could see all he had to do. There was a trash can. Like all he had to do was move the trash can, get out of his car, move the trash can, and he would have wide open spaces. But he was trying to navigate within this left, right, inside the trash can. And I just kept looking at it going, that is me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
If I could just, I spend all day going left, right, left, right. But if I could just see a little bit higher. Yeah. I could see there's infinite other possibilities. There's always when you think, is it A or is it B? Is it A or is it B? I don't know if it's A or B. It's never A or B. It's always F. Right. Right. And when you can take a breath and get higher and see.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And so that I want to, challenge everyone in the pod squad today, whatever that little decision you're trying to make, is it A or is it B? Tell yourself you're going to give yourself 24 hours. You're not going to make that decision today. And instead you're going to dream up what is C, D and E and F? What if I could see this from such a wide perspective that I could actually see the trash can?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
What are the out of the box possibilities that aren't option A or B? Because like, To come back to why I started talking about this, it's very interesting when you're in, say, particular religious trauma, your car situation is you're going back between like, am I going to go to heaven or am I going to go to hell? I'm like, is it heaven or is it hell? Is it heaven or is it hell?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And like anybody looking at you from above is thinking that is not the question.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Let's just continue the story and make it wider and more beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
We love you, PodSquad, so much. Thank you for listening. And we'll see you back here next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
But it is cool for me to think of what crises tend to do, which is if you picture a little kid with one of those sieves that they take to the beach, you know, and they like scoop up all the sand and the reason they scoop up all that sand is because they hope that the sand will
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
filter out the bottom and there will be little treasures left inside, the little sea glass and the shells and all of that. And I do- Bugs, if you're into etymology. Yes, babe, thanks. And I do know through so many experiences that we wouldn't ask for it to come, but what crisis does tend to do
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
is put into sharp relief the treasures of your life, all of the things that you hold so dear and love, the most important things. And that's what you're seeing right now all over Los Angeles with people just holding their people so tight and rushing to take care of each other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And the people who have had their things saved because their houses were spared, one of the interesting things is you are watching these people ransack their own homes, bring everything they own to these shelters because they want to give the things that they do have. You can see it playing out, people valuing community and love above things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
It's just, you can see the treasures that crisis brings, even if we don't, even if we'd prefer a different process. So anyway, let's talk about love and family and treasures today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Do you guys know how in the episode that we did with Jessica Yellen, Jessica's still here, by the way, in our house with her little Bruno and sheltering here, how we talked about Altadena, the city, the historically black neighborhood in LA that has been burned to the ground. And we talked a lot about that city.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And then right after that, we were talking about Octavia Butler and Adrienne Marie Brown and all that Octavia Butler taught us about She wrote about the future in like a dystopian way, but it was absolutely applicable to life now. And I just learned that Octavia Butler is buried in Altadena.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
she has this little hero in her, in the parable of the sower, which I think is one of her most famous books.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And I just remember this little one had a set of principles of her new religion. Isn't the right word, but way of seeing the world. And the first one over and over again, I think was God has changed. God has changed. God has changed. And, there is obviously something there that is embraceable, even though change is unembraceable.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Like it literally sifts through your hands, like the crisis conversation, but the idea that love is change and that there is truth in the falling apart, that there's a way to find love and God, even in the midst of it all slipping through your fingers. I feel like we're kind of seeing that. It's hard to explain.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And if you're not here, the horror is so stark that the bright moments are just so much brighter. Like it's like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Still not excited about it. When you were in... Through all of your thoughts, and I already know this answer, so I'm just asking it like I'm an interviewer, but what have you identified as the source of what you would call outsized terror of death?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Do you remember we sat down on a bed and I said, I have something to report.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah. I knew when it was time. Report as soon as you know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
No, I knew when it was time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Well, I'm happy to do that. I mean, I can tell you to my best ability, how I reported it to you. I, I said, I have something to report. It's an important report. And you said, what's the report? This is something that we say to each other every once in a while because I'll be thinking about something. That's really funny that that's something you say to each other, like breaking news.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Actually, you wear them to work out and you wear them out to dinner. That is true.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
It feels like breaking news to me, like because sometimes it's something I've been like noodling in my head for a long time. And then it feels like it's ready to the way I can describe it is it feels like it's ready to be reported. Like it takes a while for it to be ready to report it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Right. And it's usually something that's a little bit weird. Okay. So here's what I reported. I reported this. You, your biggest issue this last so many years has been your terror of death. We have identified that the distinct terror of death is not just a terror of death. It is a terror of hell. Okay. It is absolutely not a mystery why you are scared of hell. You are a small child.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And you wear them under suits and you wear them to bed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And the... Please, like the poor pod squad doesn't need to hear me go off again about the utter insanity of teaching small children that there are fires of hell waiting for them if they don't nail this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
It's unfreaking believable. Okay. That is one of the reasons why I love talking about this. I think it's important that people see in real time a case study of someone who's being very honest with you because people don't tell this story or they haven't had the access to the work that will help them untangle the story as a fine of a point as we can put on it. But this is what happens. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
I don't know. That's what I interpret everyone as saying to me. They might not be saying that. Or like two critical, two troublemaker vibes. Like, why can't you just not notice that? Why can't you just be happy? Why can't you just... leave it the way it is. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
We just talked about that. I said to a business partner, okay, because I think this plays out not just in relational, like romantic relationships, in business relationships, in whatever. I have a business partner who was driving me batshit, honestly, because every time I pointed something out, I said, Did you see that? Did you see how that, what happened? Did you see that email?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Did you see how that person said that? She is amazing and loves me. But her fear is, Glennon's going to go batshit. I noticed that too. But what I have to do is say, oh, that was no big deal. Not a big deal. Not a big deal. No, no.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
To attempt to keep you from... I had to say to her just yesterday on the phone. I said, I think... That when I notice something, you get scared. And so you think the best thing to do is downplay it. And I need you to know that that is making me insane. It makes me feel gaslit. It makes me feel like you're not on my side. It makes me feel like crazy. It completely invalidates my.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And so what I am saying to you is I promise you, if you stop doing that, if you admit Glenn and I also saw that, that was fucked up. Then I will be able to move on. I will not blow things up, but I need you to not pretend that you don't see what I see just because you're afraid of what I'm going to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Then I get to go, oh, okay, cool. What are we going to do? Like I get to be the big accepting, nice one too.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Every time she says that felt weird, I want to lay down on the ground and cry.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Wait, is Dr. Solomon going to bring us the wisdom to know the difference? Is Dr. Solomon? Yeah, exactly. So we are today bringing the serenity prayer from all of my 12-step meetings to relationships. I wake up every day, look at my partner, and I say, dear God, grant me the courage to change the things I can about Abby. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And change doesn't have to, I don't think of change as something's bad. So you change it. I think of change as the way of life. But I also think that for the changers out there, I feel such empathy for the acceptors. I really do now. And to the changers out there, If you think you're taking your person into couples therapy so that you can change their shit, I just have a warning for you, okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
The serenity to accept things I cannot change about Abby and the wisdom to know the difference. Bring us the wisdom to know the difference.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Like, if you go in and you're doing it with an open heart and an open mind, bringing the serenity prayer to your marriage, you might eventually find out that it is largely you who cannot see The beauty and gorgeousness and what you need in your life with that person who you married on purpose for a reason because you knew in your heart they were an acceptor.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
That's hard. Mm hmm. We can do hard things. I've heard. We can do hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
spotify odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow this is the most important thing for the pod while you're there if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend we would be so grateful we appreciate you very much
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Oh, sister, shut up already. I'm just being very honest.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
It's like it reminds me. OK, so it's like there's yin yoga and there's yang yoga. And it's like yoga where you're doing all the stretchy, hard, pushy yoga where everyone's trying to get more flexible and everyone's pushing the boundaries and trying crow is like one kind of yoga. But there's yin yoga, which I used to feel like, why are we just sitting here? What the hell's going on?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And the teacher said, this is the other side of yoga. This is where we do not stretch further. We appreciate what is, and it is as equally important as the other kind of yoga. So it's like two kinds of yoga in the relationship. One person is stretchy, pushy, and one person is rest in what is, and they're both equal.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Well, I used to think you were lazy and now I think you're enlightened and I'm not at all exaggerating about either of those words. I used to think, wait, it's just accepting is just like not... Doing anything.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
It's not alive. Like complacent?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Stagnant. And now the healthier I get, truly the more therapy I do, the more untriggered I become, the more I see how Abby lives and accepts as utterly what I need and absolutely beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Is that what's healthier? Because you can become polarized. I'm this when you're that one. But when you think of it as just a cycle of creation, like I always think of Abby as Sunday. I'm like, let's make the clouds. Let's make the water. Let's make the whatever. And then Abby's like, let's stop and look at it and call it good. That's the Sunday of creation, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
So it just feels fairer to get it out of our bodies and into what is needed. And then we each get to step into like, pushing and acceptance. And now we've derailed you.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We become a movement that is so beautiful and full of life and humanity and love that we become irresistible and just... That is what Girls Just Want a Weekend is. It is.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It meant something different last year. What it means to me this year, I keep having this challenge at Girls Just Wanna, which is that I just keep starting to cry constantly. And actually everyone in our family, somebody breaks down every day and it's like this huge thing and then it's me maybe four or five times a day. And it's very hard to describe. It's not a feeling.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It's not I'm happy or I'm sad. It is like a internal swelling that is just like being in the presence of complete truth and complete kindness and I guess it's love is what it is. It's just like, it's like coming out of my body or something in tears and then it's like baptism all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Okay. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Get ready for today. Today's episode comes to you from Mexico. So exciting. We are in Mexico at a festival, a music festival started by and run by our Dear, dear friends, Brandi Carlile and Katherine Carlile, we've recorded a live episode for you. This is the first time we've ever done a big live recording of We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
But I also, what it means to me this year, we were talking about this earlier, like what we're gonna have to do this year in particular, like what is this gonna look like? And we're talking about how the language has been really around resistance for so long, and that that's just not beautiful enough anymore. That resisting something means that the thing that's most important is the other thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It's in reaction to something.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Right? It's like the other thing is the most important, and we're just reacting to it. But that is not what we're doing here. I don't even know who else exists here. And there was this artist named Toni Cade Barbera, and she said that the job of the artist is to make the revolution irresistible. And this is irresistible. Right? Well said. You don't have to yell at anybody, actually.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It is. And we are so excited for you to listen to this hour with these thousands of gorgeous, irresistible human beings. What I want to tell you before you listen... is just a couple warnings, okay? First of all, I felt really excited because I met this incredible band full of three gorgeous human beings inside and out. Their name is Muna.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
That's so exhausting. I'm so tired. Like, I just want joy and beauty and love and thisness. And then everybody else will be like, I want that. Right? So that's what it is to me. It's an irresistible revolution. And you guys started building it. I know you're always like, it wasn't us. I mean, okay, all right. Okay. Okay. It was definitely you. And you built it before we needed it.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And when you say things like, we will show up as long as you show up, people don't say that shit. That makes me want to cry that you said that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Actually, yeah, let's do that next year. We need one. What do you want to talk about next, love?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Can you talk to us about... We've had so many conversations over the last eight hours, and I don't know how many of them are appropriate for public, so why don't you pick one?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I woke up this morning and I said, my sexuality is Muna.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I mean, I am Muna. I've already composed emails in my head about how I can get them to accept me as their queer elder auntie.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Okay. And in the episode, I say... It's because there were thousands of people there.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
For sure. That sounds scary, but we'll do that. Okay. No, I just love their joy and their freedom and their, I loved that they said just Venmo us. I was like, oh my God, you're just like taking away all the middlemen. Like there's something very revolutionary about that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I'll give her all my money. Whatever you want to do, Katie.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Because there's also like all the queer art can be so angsty and painful and like it all has to be so, and to see them just be like, oh no, it's going to be joyful. Like Silk Chiffon makes me, I'm like, yes, Silk Chiffon, shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I was all riled up. And I said that Muna is my sexuality. Okay. And then everyone just started freaking out. And Potswana, if you were there, I could see everyone's faces and Brandy and Kath and Abby. And I felt like, why is everyone making a big deal out of this? Later. Okay. What I meant is that the Muna is three different vibes.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I want to go back to what you were talking about. So this thing happened that I wonder if anyone can relate to. So we were at a bank. You were at a bank? I know, it was so weird. Did you say bank? A bank. This is an old story.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It was when we first got married. And the bank guy gave us a piece of paper and it said, gave it to us at a table, and it said, husband, wife. And I was like, first of all, are you serious? Like, are you looking, do you?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And I said some things about how they might update their paperwork and that we wouldn't be at this bank anymore unless their paper was, and like the time to update their paperwork was like last century. And so it was just like, honestly, a normal Tuesday for me. And we left and we got in the van and Abby said, it makes me feel sad in moments like that because I think, why am I not brave like that?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And we had, it started this beautiful conversation and it's because I grew up with straight privilege. When I walk into a room, I'm expecting to be treated with equality. I'm expecting a certain thing. And how did you feel?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
woman she just flung the papers across the table and she just said fix this I'm not signing something that doesn't make any sense to me but that wasn't my point my point is that it was privilege not courage I understand you are so brave you paved the way for people like me to be like I I'm not taking this shit like you and you and you did that what does community mean to you too I have never met anyone who does community
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Like you two. This is just the tip of the iceberg of your lives. You have made me less afraid of people.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Thank you. It's something very deep. Like I call you. Yeah, you call me.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah. No, I just mean in a deep way. The way that you invite people into your lives in a way that you're not scared of. The way that you invite people on stages. What does community mean to you? And when you talk about it with each other, How do you make decisions about how you do it? Why does your life look like it looks?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
There's three people in the group and one, they all have different like gender and sexuality expression. And what I meant was my expression of my sexuality is Muna. And the reason I'm making a big deal out of this introduction is because I felt like what I said was like I'm attracted to each of them, which would be fine, except I don't want to be objectifying these love bugs.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Like I didn't mean to objectify them. I actually just want to be their queer elder auntie, which I also express in this. I meant my sexuality expression is embodied in all three of them.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yes, I sometimes think that. I'm like, I'm not a jerk, I'm just very sensitive. And I mean that in a way like truly, if I'm in a room with a lot of people, Abby and I can be in the same room and leave and report completely different experiences, right? It can be a lot for people. What about community is hard for you two?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
No, no double enchanted there, no.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I feel like that's actually quite profound. I remember somebody recently said to me, I had to show up for something, and I said, how do I do it? What am I supposed to do? And she said, just be yourself. And I said, I don't know how much longer I can keep that up. And then I thought, what the hell does that mean? And I'm not sure, but it's not that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I'm going to be so sad if we're at Brandy and Kath's house and Brandy starts playing the piano.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We're out of here. Here's the thing. This is going to maybe sound like a weird question, but does building community take a lot of confidence? Like, I keep thinking, you just invited all these people here and just, like, assumed that people would come. Like, that's so terrifying.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Thank you. And then I want to say one other thing before the pod squad listens is that there was this moment where all of this is about Muna, but I said that what I loved about Muna was that their expression of queerness is so joyful. And sometimes I feel like
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
it's such a beautiful thing for young queer people to just see the joy because there's always in queer art, there's so much tragedy and trauma and that is real too. But in songs like Silk Chiffon, it's just so gorgeous to see artists saying queerness is,
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Okay, so Abby has always been very, very, very afraid of death. And I know we're all afraid of death, but this was kind of huge. And it took us like too many years to figure out that it was tied to the fact that when she was a child, people taught her that there was a fiery place full of flames and devils that after she died, she would go to. It turns out that can do a number on a kid. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
So, I always felt like if I were a superhero, my superpower would be stories. Like, I would, like, look at you and be like, I know you think you deserve to be with a cheater, but I have a better story. Like, I know that you think this, but I have a better story. Like, just more beautiful and more beautiful and beautiful stories because we're all living inside of them.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
fun and beautiful and not doesn't have to have the trauma and that actually was Tish's thought but I didn't say it because I was afraid that I mean Tish was sitting oh you stole it from her I basically stole it from Tish but the reason why I didn't say that it was Tish is because she was sitting right in the front row and I didn't have her permission to say it so afterwards I asked her if I could
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Well, no, for sure not. But let's say things anyway.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
say it was her idea and she said yes. So anyway, good luck with all that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I think that if I could do it over.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Oh, that's right. Then I'd change nothing.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
No, they know this. They know this. I think that I would have shifted some of the energy that I... I think I over-indexed on the I've got you energy. I think it was very important for me to feel like the kids knew that I had them, that I had their back, that their mom would do anything for them that I would always make sure they were okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Oh, and you all. OK, so we're about to record. We're in this place with thousands of people. Brandy and Kath are there. And then Brandy and Tish go out on stage and together sing the We Can Do Hard Things song to open up the whole thing. And you all are about to hear that now.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And I wish, and I'm trying to fix it now, but I wish that I had put a little less emphasis on I've got you and a little more emphasis on you've got you. Yeah. I think that's where the magic is. That's what we're trying to do. We're just trying to create space where they figure out, I don't have to look to you. I can look to me and you'll be there, but I've got me.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And I think one of the ways we can do that, wait till they get older and start to go out into the world and have their own lives. Because what you find out is that it wasn't just your identity. For me, it's the only place that I've ever felt real belonging ever is in this little microcosm of humans.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And so when they start leaving, it's not only a loss of identity, but it's a loss of belonging, of just a lot. And so what I have figured out is that it's like, you know how, okay, let's say they're like butterflies, right? If you chase them, they just fly faster. And I have tried. There's a chasing energy as they grow that does not work and becomes a burden to them.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And they come back because they think that you need them as opposed to the other way around. And so there is a way of doing it, I think, that is more like creating your little life as that kind of butterfly garden that's so beautiful and so fertile and so attractive that they just want to come back. And I think what I know about you already is that you're doing it because you're here.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
You already do have an identity outside those babies. You already are creating yourself and your life and creating an irresistible revolution that they will want to come back to.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Can you tell them what you texted me the day after the election?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
You said, oh God, you said... I texted you like five miles of texting. You said it was, one of the things you said was, I know it's awful, I know it's horrible, but have you ever seen...
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And if they're not inside, I haven't seen them. Okay, can I just say something specifically to you? I think that One of your instincts to stop exposing yourself to this shit is really, really good. It's like, no offense to anyone who does, but I don't listen to true crime because I want to say stay shocked and appalled by the idea of women being hurt and killed.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I don't want to be desensitized to it, okay? I was talking about this this morning, but so many of us have fought like hell to have lives where we are not constantly exposed to racist, rapey, fascist bullies. Like, we have worked hard for that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And we feel it viscerally because a lot of us had those kind of people leading our hallways and our classrooms and the buses and our families and all of that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And so it is okay for you to decide that you are going to create and expose yourself to things that will allow you to be the beautiful, sensitive, soft person that you are, because that is actually a way to avoid the slow march into numbness that allows fascism to take place. That is the work, okay? And we can do a third way. We don't have to do it their way. We can stay informed.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We will create that. I stopped, I haven't been on social media for six months. I decided I'd stop. I do not hate myself enough to do it anymore, okay? I haven't watched the news since the last debate. And I was okay with that. And just recently I've been like, it's time. It's time to figure something else out. Right? And we're going to do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I have this dear friend who came to stay with me during the L.A. fires because she was sheltering at our house. And I've been waiting for when I have ideas, I've been waiting for the universe to also have the ideas so I'm not always out there on my own. And
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
She does the news and she's been doing news in a way that is not like a nervous system hijacking She's gonna start doing the news on the we can do hard things feed.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Okay, this morning, before we were doing the gorgeous screening of Alex's film, Alok, I was thinking about, or maybe feeling about gender this morning. I was asking myself, how do I feel about it today? I like to use fresh language about it all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And I thought, okay, this morning, if I had to describe my gender, I think I would say I am like, my aesthetic is Galinda, but my soul is Elphaba. Like, my gender is... I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream. Right? My gender is Trojan horse. Okay? I'm like Glinda, but I'm like a better Glinda. I'm like Glinda that gets on the broom. Okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I'm Glinda, and if she didn't get on the broom, it's because she had a meeting with Elphaba earlier, and so they decided that she was going to stay in Oz, but she was going to stay in Oz, and her... goal was to liberate Oz from the inside. So her allegiance was still with Elphaba, but she was just like a spy. Okay? This shit happened to me this morning.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm not like white feminist Glinda. I'm just feminist Glinda, right? Yeah. Okay. So... There's that. And I also feel like this, and I feel like some femme presenting people feel this way. There's some feminists that can be male gaze-y, that I'm performing for the male gaze, and I know that that's there. But I also think that if I was on a desert island,
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
after I understood that I was going to die because I can't even get a meal together if I'm in a kitchen full of food, I would then find myself a few days in probably like using sticks to like get my nails right and like making rings and bracelets out of twigs. I think I would be doing that because a lot of that shit for me is not between me and men or me and the male gaze.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It's like I need my nails to be a certain way so I can like Talk to God this way. It's like so God recognizes me. It's like between me and God. My hair and nails are between me and God, okay? I mean, the six pounds of foundation on my face is definitely between me and Instagram, but... The nails and hair are real, okay? So that's my gender. And... Also, Muna. And the Trojan horse thing is like...
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I don't know. It's not a performance. It's real. Like, I get invited into places because people think I'm safe. And I'm not safe at all. Like, I'm not safe. You know? Yeah. So, like, I'm there to betray everything. Like, I'm at the table to fuck everything up all the time. So what I'm saying is just don't use the language that they've been given to us about gender.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Just completely go off script and use Disney movies or whatever else. Just use whatever the hell language you feel like. I can't use male and female anymore. And it doesn't make sense to me. It's like the software's been upgraded and I can't understand that language anymore. And I also don't know any men. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
But I think that I would like to be, I don't know how to be in a space with men and not feel myself in a violent situation. And I don't mean, that I'm going to get violent, although there is that. I mean, like, I actually have not gotten to a place where I feel bodily autonomy around men.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
What I mean by that is I feel like because I present a certain way, that men expect me to laugh when they think I should laugh and smile when they think I should smile. And when I don't laugh, when they think they're compelling me to laugh, I feel like they want to kill me. And I am serious. That's where bodily autonomy starts, right? It's like laughter.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
That's why they're so scared of us laughing. It's like real laughter can't be compelled, right? Tears is like dance, music, orgasms. All of these things are where bodily autonomy starts and ends. So I'm working on the guy thing. If anyone knows any nice ones that I could start with, that'd be great.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
You got it? Is it clear? Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
That's beautiful. And also, I think when we are judging a past version of ourself, We call it, I need to forgive myself. That's what we say to ourselves because that's a language we have. But when you think about it, we're always just doing the best we can.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
So if a new version of you is looking back at an old version of you and something you did and saying, oh, I wish I didn't do that, all that is is proof of growth. That's already, yeah. That's it.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Done and dusted. Maybe I need to forgive myself actually means I am awesome now. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I am amazing. I am so much more amazing than I was before when I did that dumb thing. Look at me.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We got to go because we all have to get ready for our ladies of the 90s.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Before we go, before we end this beautiful episode, here's something that I want to say to all of you who have been part of Together Rising for so long. Together Rising has sunset and you all know that. And many of you have reached out to us and said, I trusted Together Rising for so long with my energy, with my funds to make the kind of difference in the world that I want to make.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And now I don't know what to do. with that energy, with those funds. And we actually, as we sunset Together Rising, tried to connect you directly with many of the organizations who do the kind of work that Together Rising did for so long. I want to give you one more option. Catherine Carlyle and Brandy Carlyle run an incredible organization called the Looking Out Foundation, which I think
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
aligns with Together Rising probably the most of any other organization I know in terms of intention, in terms of vision, in terms of who and how they see the world, tell the stories, and the change that they want to see. It's the same change that Together Rising wants to see. Also, the woman who was an executive director for Together Rising, Gloria, now runs the Looking Out Foundation.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
So the leadership of Together Rising, one important part of the leadership of Together Rising moved directly over to the Looking Out Foundation. It's just that the synergy between the two are undeniable. And I trust Gloria, Brandy, and Catherine without hesitation.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
So what I'm saying to you is, if you are looking for another place to plug in, to become a donor, consider looking at the Looking Out Foundation. You can get more information about The Looking Out Foundation at lookingoutfoundation.org. Check it out. Consider it. Abby and I trust it completely. Thanks, PodSquad.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
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Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
With a huge audience, thousands of people. There were thousands of people there. Who were at this recording with me, Abby, Brandy, and Kath. Sister was not there, but it still was beautiful because of the energy of this festival. What you need to know, PodSquad, is that it was during Inauguration Weekend. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We call it skited in our family. You know when you're half scared, half excited, and you can't decide which one? Skited. Well, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things, everybody.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And it's the first podcast we've ever recorded outside of our son's bedroom.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah. Yeah. So this is different. And the reason we decided to do this is because we don't have a more special place or experience than this weekend. This is...
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
So we wanted to tell the pod squad about it. We wanted to tell the people who listen all over the world every week about this place and you people. And so we're here with two of the most important people in our hearts and lives. You know them. They're Brandi and Kath. They're here.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
During Inauguration Weekend, we were in Mexico with thousands and thousands and thousands of queer people. beautiful human beings who were just hell bent on not just resistance, but creating what we discuss in this episode as an irresistible revolution, which is Tony Cade Bambara's beautiful call to us that we not just resist. We do resist, but we don't just resist.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And one of the reasons why I'm excited to do this is because Brandy and Kath are hard to give compliments to. There's some kind of like Teflon situation that happens where I don't know if they're just so used to hearing gratitude and awe from people. And so I just actually had to like make it my, like I needed you to be on my show so I could tell you things and you'd have to sit there.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Right. What I'd like to do first is to ask Brandy first to use whatever language is available to you in this moment to try to describe to the pod squad what Girls Just Wanna Weekend is. What is this? What is happening? Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
How does it make you feel, Kath?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
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Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
It's also a little science and biology here because- A lot of women are going through perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause during this period of time that we're talking about. And it's like literally the chemicals in your body make you give less shits, make you care like you're the nurture part of you starts to fade away. And so you get to be like, oh, I don't actually give a fuck anymore.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And I'm just going to go and live my own life. And for me, I'm excited about that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Maybe if not for all the money in the world, I go back to 20.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
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Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
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We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yep. That's my goal. I'm right here with everyone. You're right here with everyone?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And I think it's important. I think that you two are really interesting examples in this because I think that Glennon, especially recently, you've been really doing quite a bit of work on processing emotions and feeling them in your body. You've lived a lot of your life head up and you've thought through your problems a lot.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And one of the most beautiful things that I've noticed that you've put in your daily life is whenever we have a discussion about pretty much anything now, you actually say out loud, I don't know if this is something that you're doing intentionally, but it's something I'm noticing. You say, I'm feeling that in my body and you'll feel it somewhere specific or you'll attach an emotion to it
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And I think that that is like such a good kind of way to begin. And maybe it's like varsity level. I don't know. I'm not a psychologist. But what it actually does for me in a conversation is it actually allows me to check in with myself in my own body so that I'm not just in my headspace trying to solve the problem. We and our culture and our society.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
There's all these nails that need to be hammered down, all these problems that need to be solved. But so much stuff that happens in a day, we are conditioned not to even process this shit. We are conditioned to just keep moving forward, keep trucking along and giving yourself the moment or even in a conversation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
to just be like, oh God, I feel that in my chest or I feel that in my gut or I feel that in my heart, whatever it might be. And what I've noticed about you and whatever kind of way you're processing through this is you've become more curious about and consciously curious. And I don't know how to say this without sounding weird, but like less certain. There's an uncertainty around that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And I think that that also is part of what makes people scared about processing emotion because there is no certainty. It's like, well, I think I feel sad or I think I feel angry. And then what do I do with it? Or how do I solve the problem? Because it's a longer thing, right? It's not just about the awareness, though, that that's a really great step.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
It's not just allowing it, letting it go through you. It's also, like you said, Glennon, trying to capture the why of it all. And is it a story I've told myself? Am I just riling myself up over here because some sort of conditioned belief that I have had since I was four years old? How old is this emotion? Does this track way back? Is this even something that I...
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
actually still believe in my 44 year old body now? Or is this just like seven year old? I mean, I had a tantrum the other day, a literal physical in my body tantrum. And it is a young part. It is a young part of me. And Glennon can feel it. And I'm like embarrassed about it.
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Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yeah. So I just I love this question, Casey, because it's not one size fits all. Who knows what will work best for you? We're not like therapists here. But I just feel really proud of both of you two because I know how difficult it is for you or has been to just want to actually get into the emotion of your lives. Yeah, it's good stuff.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I actually have no basis of reality in what I'm about to say. But what I believe to be true is I think it's actually way more detrimental to not process emotion. Oh, it's way more detrimental. I'm just for sure. I'm just saying the energetic output. I know, but I also think that it shortens a person's life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I have no research or science, but if you are not processing your emotions, I believe that we are doing real harm and real damage to our physical beings.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yeah, I know. And I think that it's really, it has been maybe one of the most profound things. And we've said this on this podcast that like sometimes when we get into an argument or I'm telling you that my feelings are hurt, I've never felt until recently that you actually cared.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Honestly, we just had a big conversation the other night and it was I'm not kidding. It was literally one of the first times that I actually think you cared. And I'm like an anxious, attached person. So the not caring is really hard for me to not just get over, but to like to be like, are we OK? Like, is it really OK?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
We had a big conversation and it was the first time that I was like, oh, no, I think that we're really OK. And that was huge. That was really huge. Not that I thought we were like getting a divorce, but like I didn't have any adverse secondary questions and wonderings about what her experience was. I knew it. I could feel it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I want the pod squatters to be people that we talk to like they're our guests.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
IRL. In real life. I want this. Oh, that would be so sweet. I want this so bad. You guys. Nobody cares that I played soccer anymore. The deal is I'm a podcaster now and I need a little bit of like, I don't know. What you're hearing is Abby's sick of us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Help us help you. Do you want to come on the pod is what we're asking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Does the pod squatter want to come on the pod?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yeah. And it won't let you on. That's right. Or I think it would be kind of cool if one of the pod squatters wanted to come on and talk about an episode that changed their life in some way that they've like put into practice some things that we've been talking about. I mean, my goodness, my shadow side, anybody else working on their shadow side?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I would like some freaking pod squatters who are on my side here. We can talk about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Okay. You guys, I'm feeling an emotion of joy. And I'm feeling an emotion of joy. Big joy in my body.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Plus, every new membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash hard things. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash hard things. Masterclass.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I love it when you read a book and you're like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Dylan Mulvaney is a trans actress, comic, and creator of the viral TikTok series Days of Girlhood, which received more than 1 billion views across all platforms. Dylan has been featured on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list, received a Woman of the Year by Attitude magazine, honored on the Out 100 list, and has received a Them Now award and a Webby Special Achievement award.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I feel like our audience will remember you from Beer Gate. Can you just give us a... A little... Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Yes. Dylan, Abby and I live in bed. And we think of it as like a sleep-in. It's like we're John and Yoko. And we also, we take office hours in our bedroom. So if the children need to talk to us, they know to come in and stand at the foot of the bed and we will receive them there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Right. I mean, that's why I can't like, I relate to your experience so much. Was it like arriving at a idealized fake version of womanhood and then having to get out of that to real womanhood? Because it's not all joy and fluff and happiness. No. I and so many other people, when Tish showed me that, I was like, right on time. That's always what we have to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
You said a thing and then apologized afterwards.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Well, Beer Gate is Taylor Swift at an NFL game.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
There are certain. bastions of white male isms that are just have big fucking keep outsides with guns next to it that are like, if you dare. that is the ire of a Swifty at an NFL game. Is Dylan on a beer commercial?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Are you an evangelical, Dylan?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Yes. Yes. But I just want you to know, Dylan, that when you responded to my video, my Cher video, and you said, it's clear now where Tish gets her musical talent. So last night I went to Tish's room and I said, so Dylan just emailed me because my kids love you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
You know, I loved your book and I was thinking about the title. So the title is Paper Doll Notes from a Late Bloomer. And I was thinking about how interesting that subtitle is to me because I think you're the earliest bloomer I know. Really? Yeah. I feel as if most of the people that I know...
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
hit a point in their life where they realized that they were living, you know, their parents' expectations or their cultural expectations or their religion. And then there comes this like breaking open where they have to transcend that. And that's usually for my friends that happens in the middle, mid forties. Where it just, the container, Alex describes it as like a pot, a flower pot.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It just, the flower pot is everything you were taught and everything everyone expected of you. And then you, it just starts cracking. Like, You just start growing too big for it. And that is a transcendence, right? That's when you become you. And so you, to me, are an example of doing it way early.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Whenever you have another pocket of time, I'm going to ask you to come back and talk to us about that. How the fuck? How? Because that is one of the reasons that I love talking to trans people about their journeys, because you can see what everyone does. has to do, but in a more concrete way. Yes. So you're an early bloomer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Well, I said, Dylan saw my video and said, that you get your talent from me. And Tish goes, so mom, how did Dylan see your video? And I said, because I sent it directly to them. And then I texted them and said, please watch my video. Tish was like, you're just so, you can't be cool to save your life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Yeah. Well, Dylan, the last thing I'm going to say is I don't know a lot of people that this is true for, but it's a small world in this world we're in. And I have never one time heard your name brought up or brought up your name to someone where the person doesn't immediately, their face just lights up. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I don't know about, I'm moving into an existence in which I no longer make my comment section my higher power. That's what Liz and I talk about. Real live people, I have never experienced anything but a softening, a lighting up, everybody that I know and respect who knows you. Now I understand. Softens when they hear your name. Thank you. And so- You just stay as sweet and earnest as you are.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And when the world starts to harden you, please call me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
We love you pod squad. Love you. See you next time. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
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Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Dylan attended the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music and played Elder White in The Book of Mormon. She now lives in L.A. where she works to bring trans stories to the mainstream. Her debut book, Paper Doll, Notes from a Late Bloomer, is available now. Honey bunny!
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Thank you. I agree. We could do hard things. Dylan, tell our pod squad for those who don't know you. All two of them. For the two people who don't know you, can you? Well, actually, I mean, there's a lot of Gen Xer moms on this thing who maybe don't like this. And the good news is Dylan loves moms. Dylan is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Tell them how so like how my kids met you was during your and a lot of what your book is. I think right now you're three years, three years of girlhood for you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Oh, yeah. Yes. Okay. I'm from Gen X. So when you say sleep tape, I think it's going to be like a cassette tape with some sleep music.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
That's why it's so confusing about is it good? Is it bad? I mean, it did that for me too. It connected me with so many people. And, you know, I see the bad of it. I really do. I'm a mom of three teenagers. I see what it can do by making their vision smaller.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But it also, without it, so many people wouldn't be exposed to the exact people they need so that they can find themselves and their community.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Sonia Renee Taylor is one of many hands currently called to midwife the new world. She is a guide, poet, storyteller, vision holder, intuitive astrologer, and evangelist of radical love. She is the author of seven books, including the New York Times bestseller, The Body is Not an Apology, The Power of Radical Self-Love, and her most recent offering for young readers is The Book of Radical Answers.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
I really appreciated in your book, the way that you talked about porn. Can you just for the pod squad real quick, just say briefly what you said in the book about keeping your eye out for what porn is actually doing. How would you talk to a kid about that?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
You know, that idea that you will see climate change happening on your phone until you see it in front of you, and that's the way this goes. We have been talking about our dear friend Adrienne Murray-Brown and how she's been telling us to, you know, gather your people, get your go bags, and I've been like, okay, Adrienne, like, it's just… Settle down.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
It's good, Sonia. It's really good. Thanks.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Do you see how when Sonia's talking and you're hearing her, you're not presenting it in a fear-based way that I was a third grade teacher. So You can present things in a way, not you, you universal, where your fear comes out so much that the kid is automatically curious about that thing. It's like, oh, you're so scared of this. What is that? If you have banned books energy about porn.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And now I'm texting her like, fuck, what was I supposed to put in my go bag? I know you said it was going to be too late. Extreme has happened. Sonia, the reason why I am so grateful that you're here is that we are also people who are watching this all happen around us. And for many of us, the most important part of this is how on earth we literally, do we speak of this to our children?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And it doesn't have to be a leading from a podium where you're an expert. A guide can just be right on the path with you, but just a couple steps forward. Couple steps ahead.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Yeah. And Sonia, do you think, I think one of the challenges with the paradigm we've had about this, that there's a talk, is that's not how people are. Like we evolved. Abby just had this beautiful, Abby has had so much fear and shame about what she was taught about heaven and hell from her family and her church when she was little. She's done so much work to break out of that paradigm.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
She talked to her mom about it recently. And her mom said, oh, honey, I don't believe in hell anymore. And Abby has been carrying this belief. Thanks for not catching me up.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
So I am sure that by omission and by what I taught my kids when I had them inside of a very fundamentalist church, when they were little, if I just had the talk then and never showed how I have changed and grown and struggled out loud, it's okay to have a different talk now than you would have last year and maybe in fact imperative.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
How do people who are of the consciousness that we're in speak to a generation who we love so much, whose reality is completely different than we even experienced? And you have written, of course you have, written a beautiful book about, it's behind me, the book of radical answers.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
That's the success. It is not success to keep old software and stick to it and say, that's the thing forever. That is not success.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And it's like, if you struggle with how to talk to your kids about everything that's important, sometimes the most important thing is not the what of what you're saying, but the who is saying it. And you are a person that if I was like, okay, kid, I don't know what the fuck to say to you about sex because I don't get it.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Yeah. You want them to see the water they're swimming in. Absolutely. Otherwise the sharks will get them.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Yeah. Yes, of course. Shit, Sonya.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Okay. I need to know for my own personal self, because I really believe that when I'm listening to you, how do I talk to my kids about this? I'm also just like, how do I think about this? Okay. I'm clear that this book is for the kids, but it's just really also for the adults.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Yes. So how do you, coming from the Pentecostal church, being this incredible, acorny, radical self-love prophet. All right. My kid comes to you and says, what the hell with God? Like, what's God? What does Sonia Renee Taylor say right now at this point in her evolution? Right now.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
So, but I'm just going to put you in this room with Sonya Renee Taylor and I feel confident that whatever you say will not put them in a rigid dogmatic box that they will spend the rest of their lives trying to fight their way out of, but that what you will say will allow them to be that acorn you talk about that is just returning to self-trust and self-love and not a cage, but sort of like a
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
That's beautiful. Because when they're coming to you with a question, you can bet, and I remember this from my teaching days too, that's not coming from nowhere. They are having inner... Ideas.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
I sometimes feel bad for, it's like you and I, and probably everyone on this pod does have a sort of literal love language with words. Yes. It makes me feel like it's unfair for people who are with young children who that's not their, sister, can you tell Sonia about what John, your husband does with music? Yeah.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
I was trying not to be like, react too strongly in any direction. Have you ever noticed that these little shits only ask these questions at bedtime? Because they know that they've got us.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Fertilizer, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. So, Sonia, can we just start by how do you talk to children about the planet right now?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
I want to ask this question for our pod squad, because one of the things that gets brought up the most is, and I know you talked about this in the book, What do we do when our kids are hurt by other children?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
When they're left out. Our kid comes home and somebody was terrible to them. And Sonia, you know it activates every part of us that has felt left out when we were seven and last week. Yeah. And we just, how do you, would you go about that? When a kid came and said, they left me out, they teased me. How do we know when it's bullying?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
It's tied to your other part so much clearly. I hear when you're saying that, I'm thinking, if we are people who have not been reliable narrators of how people can be cruel and people can be short-sighted and the world can be very unfair and
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
If we have not been reliable narrators about that, if we have been toxically positive, if we have avoided, if we have been like I was when the kids were little, everything's fair. It's all fair. Everything's good. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Then when this shit happens to them, when they are at school and they are left out, when they see the spikes on the bench, when they experience the world as it is, they will not know that that's the way the world is. They will think there's something wrong with them.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
You're not reliable. So the child experiences, like I'm thinking back to my teaching days, the kid is in the classroom and goes through what all kids go through at some point, some to unacceptable degrees that are some just a little bit exclusion, left-outedness, unkindness, unfairness, injustice. The kid who hasn't had a reliable narrator at home, who has presented the world as it is,
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
in developmentally appropriate ways, says, oh, this is the world. This is uncomfortable and this hurts, but this is the world.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Yes. But the kid who has not had a reliable narrative thinks, what is my doing wrong? It's me. Why am I like this? Why is this happening in this world that my mom told me is fair and perfect and beautiful? They both go together absolutely inevitably, right, Sonia?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And it's all curated from kids. So it's their questions. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
We love you, Sonia Renee Taylor. Yes. I love y'all. We're so grateful. Every time you give us an hour of your time, I know how important it is. And I'm just grateful. Thank you for this hour. It's going to help so many people. And everybody go get the book.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
See you next time, PodSquad. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Today, we are Learning from Sonia how to talk to our kids about the hard stuff, money, sex, the planet, the things that we want so hard to get right with our kids that we often freeze up and don't try at all. Sonia's going to help us try.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
That's good. Yeah. I always think about, I'm from fundamentalist Christianity, so you can take the girl out of the church, but it's just there. It's like my native language. I grew up Pentecostal. I understand.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
You're taking us through a process of truth first. We call it first the pain, then the rising, or like first the crucifixion, then the resurrection. But kids can smell it when you jump to the resurrection before. So you're level setting. We skipped something. Yeah. Here's the truth of it all. Here's the truth of it all.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And then we move into imagination and creativity, which leaves them not hovering in the terror. Because you can't really be creative and terrified at the same time.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
This conversation is so important, not just for parents or anyone who has a kid in their life, but just for any adult who's trying to get any clarity around these incredibly nuanced but important human issues. Let's go. How are you? Are you in LA? Yes. Yeah. So we, Sonia, are right outside of LA. It's a beach town that's 15 miles outside of where everything's happening.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Yeah. They will not believe our what could be if they don't believe our what is.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Requires, I think I've changed my mind about this. Like I used to think you just walk in with them and you just don't know with them. You just say, I don't know. And you circle around the, I don't know. And that is true-ish. But the more I think about it, the more I think the reason we don't know what to say to our children about
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
the planet about racism, about sex, about money is because we don't effing know. We have not taken the stillness, the time, the therapy, the community, the books. We have not done the work to have a theory. Whether it's evolving and changing as it should, it should. It shouldn't be fixed. But we should have an idea about what we think about things.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
So we are both in it and out of it. We have people staying with us. We are feeling it and seeing it in the sky. We don't know anyone who hasn't been evacuated. Yeah.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Because God, we can say the words. I think all the time about the amount of time that I spent teaching my girls and my boy about bodies and freedom while being anorexic. Yeah. It's just, it really matters, the actual work we're doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
I imagine the kids being like, thanks, mom. And when you're done with those six almonds, could you finish this conversation we're having about food and freedom?
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And also we're safe. It's a very confusing time. And this morning we're talking about how sometimes it just feels like the universe is just like really hooking us up. I can't believe we're talking to you today. This is just, we're in it now. We're in the climate crisis, the Armageddon, the apocalypse situations that we have been warned we would be in.
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How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Okay, Sonia, a kid comes to you and says, sex, what is it? How does Sonia of the radical self-love of the acorn kind of wisdom talk to a kid about sex?
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Der Untertitel ist Ansätze zu 20 Fragen der Leben. Okay, wir werden diese Stunde spenden, um dir die wunderschöne Geschichte zu erzählen, wie dieses Buch zusammengekommen ist und warum ich glaube, dass dies das Buch ist, das den größten Einfluss auf die Welt macht, den ich jemals gelesen habe. Ich glaube das mit meinem ganzen Bewusstsein.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Yeah, I mean, we realized we are constantly turning to each other and friends and podcasts and books and Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Tipps und Wissen und Dinge zu sehen und Dinge zu nicht verpassen und Dinge zu konzentrieren und die Schönheit dieses Ortes. Und es ist von Leuten hergestellt, die da waren, die da waren und die diese Reise gemacht haben.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Und wenn du in das neue Land gehst, ohne diesen Guiden, wirst du viel verpasst. Und du wirst nicht wissen, wie du deinen Weg durch das Ort machen kannst, so wie du es hättest, wenn du den Guiden hättest. Und wir wollten das für das Leben.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Wir wollten ein Beleidigungsbuch, dass, wenn wir neue Späte entstanden sind, die sich neu fühlten, Schmerz, Verlust, Elternheit, Liebe, Freude, all diese Räume, die wir jeden Tag gehen. Wir wollten ein Beleidigungsbuch, das Tipps und Wissens von Leuten, die auf diesen Straßen gegangen sind. Und übrigens, manchmal waren es wir. Wir waren die Menschen, die auf diesen Straßen gegangen sind.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Wir brauchten die Wissens, die wir die letzte Zeit, als wir auf dieser Straße waren, gekauft haben. We wanted it all in one place. We wanted a guidebook for life. And we are the people to have written that because on this podcast and outside of this podcast, we have been so lucky to learn from each other and to learn from the wisest, most brilliant, bravest people who have walked this planet.
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And so what we did is we created a guidebook for life. divided into the biggest, most beautiful, juicy questions that every single one of us asks themselves each day. And then we collected every glimmer of story, idea, wisdom, tip that had been collected by us and by other wise guides who have traveled that road before. Because listen, when... Life gets hard, which is most days, right?
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The most important thing to do is to remember. We have to remember what we know. We have to remember what we have learned along the way. We also have to remember the other thing that remember means. Remember means to recall what we've already learned. But it also means to come back together. Remember is the opposite of dismember, right?
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It's like, yes, we can make it through by remembering what we have learned personally. But we also make it through by coming back together with other people and saying, tell me what you know. Inside this book is a remembering of everything that we know. And it's also a remembering of everything that the wisest people that we know have taught us.
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Bevor wir all das erzählen, werden wir dir sagen, dass es uns viel bedeuten würde, wenn du dieses Buch jetzt pre-ordern würdest. Ja. Es gibt viele Gründe, warum Pre-ordern tatsächlich wichtig sind. in a big way to authors. And I have told you that a million times before when I've asked you to pre-order my friends' books.
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Yeah, the Dory from Nemo feeling is that everything feels brand new. Every time a hard thing arises, it feels unprecedented, right? But there is nothing that you are walking through that someone else has not walked through. That's right. You are never alone. Life is wild because we walk it alone. But we walk it alone together, right?
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Whatever road you're walking right now, grief, horrific loss, problems in relationships, the state of the world, you're walking it alone, but alongside a million other people who have tips to help your journey. You are never doing it alone. That's the we. If it was I can do hard things, I would never, I wouldn't be, no. The we. Yeah. Super, super important.
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Let's tell them the questions. Let's tell them the 20 questions. First of all, I want to say that we were all keeping this sort of personal survival guide for ourselves. It was for me and Abby and Amanda during that time. You know how you write down Things for your friend, quotes that you think will help them. We were creating this sort of treasure chest. It's like a communal journal.
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Yes, a communal journal. That's a good way of saying it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
We're like, well, we're fucked because usually one of us is doing okay. This is a real problem. Well, it kind of was like that, right? Because we're used to one of us being steady while the other two are losing it. And then that person can kind of guide us. But when we all lost it, we needed some outward source of truth. Yeah. We can't ask each other, so let's ask the words. Yeah.
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Today I'm asking you to take a moment and pre-order We Can Do Hard Things, Answers to Life's 20 Questions. By Glennon Doyle and Amanda Doyle and Abby Wambach.
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What do the words say? We had lost sort of a compass, so we needed a map. Right? Like we needed something outside of ourselves.
We Can Do Hard Things
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The wild thing that we learned during the creation of the communal journal was that we seem to just ask ourselves, the three of us, the same 20 questions every single day, over and over again, repeat forever, for our entire life. Now, the really cool thing is we thought that that was just us, but the more we asked all of the beautiful guides on this
We Can Do Hard Things
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podcast we discovered they too ask themselves some versions of these exact same 20 human questions in a million different ways every day and so the cool thing about that y'all is that we figured out okay then if we can organize this book into those questions this guidebook for life into those 20 questions then we have ourselves a source to go back to no matter what we're spiraling around and
We Can Do Hard Things
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Every single day. We have a gift to give our friends that they can come back to throughout their day, no matter what they're spiraling around. We have a gift we can give our kids to say, this is what life is going to feel like and here's How to find yourself, no matter what you're spiraling around.
We Can Do Hard Things
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And what we realized is that the fact that we spiral around these questions each day just means we're doing life. Right? This is it. This is it.
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Yeah, you remembered what you knew. And I have never in the history of my writing career ever looked at a book that I've written. Ever. I've never picked up Carry On Warrior. I've never picked up Love Warrior. I've never picked up Untamed. When I'm done, that's it. It's like looking at an old yearbook picture for me. I don't ever want to see it again. You're missing out. I've heard they're good.
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I've heard they're fine. Now listen, I've read them seven trillion times before they go into print. Of course. This book I have opened maybe, I don't know, I'm trying not to exaggerate, at least twice a day. It's wild. Like I'm using it to remember. It's so grounding. It gives me hope. It feels like it makes the chaos of life feel absolutely unchaotic. It just makes things feel clear.
We Can Do Hard Things
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So here's some of these questions. If you find yourself in any of these questions, just take note. Are these any of the swirling questions in your brain? Why am I like this? Who am I really? How do I know when I've lost myself? How do I return to myself? How do I figure out what I want? How do I know what to do? How do I do the hard thing? That's such a good chapter. That's my favorite chapter.
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So it means a lot to authors. Please, if you can, you can pre-order this book right now anywhere where you buy your books. Simple, simple, simple. Just go to wherever you buy books and press pre-order. Or you can go to treatmedia.com T-R-E-A-T media.com and find all the links to pre-order. I'll tell you what the hell treatmedia.com is another time. That's a whole nother huge situation.
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How do I let go? How do I go on? How do I make peace with my body? How do I make and keep good friends? How do I love my person? Sex. Am I doing this right?
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Am I doing this right? You should know, PodSquad, that the working titles we had for those chapters for about a solid year was just sex colon WTF.
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Parenting colon WTF. So we just softened it to am I doing this right? That's good. But as you read it, no, WTF. That's the real question. What the fuck?
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Why am I so angry? How do I forgive? How do I get unstuck? How do I feel better right now? And what is the point? Okay. I want you to know that probably about three quarters of the way through the creation of this book I think Amanda was right about to go into her double mastectomy. Abby was just buried in grief. I was so just stunned with confusion and stress and overwhelm.
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And I wrote to Valerie and Allison and said, it has to stop. I can't do it. I cannot. I know we can do hard things, but everything is too hard. And I don't think that we can finish this project. It has to go on hold.
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Und ein paar Stunden später hat Valerie mir ein E-Mail zurückgeschrieben. Und ich möchte es dir lesen, weil es einer der Gründe ist, warum du diese Botschaft hörst. Und dieses Buch geht tatsächlich in den Weltraum im Mai. Hier ist, was Valerie zurückgeschrieben hat. Ich verstehe. Wenn du noch einmal beginnen möchtest, weißt du, dass dieses Buch es ist.
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This is the life guide I want to hand to my daughter. To help her make sense of her life, her people and her world. To remind her that she already has all the wisdom she needs inside of her. To help make this hard, beautiful life just a little bit easier for her. This book is the guidebook for life I want to leave her with. So that she remembers she can always find her own way.
We Can Do Hard Things
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Because that is what this book has done for me. So y'all, I received that email and then spent a few nights with my eyes open wide staring at the ceiling because I knew that that was true. I knew that this was also the book that I want to leave my kids. I wanted to leave it to them. I want to give it to everyone I know because life is so hard. But the good news is we don't have to do it alone.
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And we don't have to do it freshly every morning. And we don't have to figure it out by ourselves. There is so much help and wisdom and clarity out there. And now we've gathered it all up. And it's right inside this book. And I've never been so certain that a book is going to serve this gorgeous world that I love.
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Today we're going to focus on We Can Do Hard Things, Answers to Life's 20 Questions, which is our big, beautiful guidebook for being alive. Yes. That will be in your hands in May. Okay, the release day is May 6th. but you can pre-order now. Please pre-order the book today. Pre-orders help us so much. There is a second thing I have to tell you.
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And babe, can I say one thing about why I think it makes you so emotional? Because it has made you very emotional every time we talk about it. My guess is in soccer, you were just like admired for this shiny version of yourself that was very, you felt it was a bit talent-based. It was a little superficial. It wasn't your full self.
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And now on this podcast and in the book, it's like your insides are out. You're showing people who you really are. Yes. And being seen. This is why people love to write. You're being seen for who you really are on the inside, which makes you feel known.
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You know, so many people have said, what are we going to do? This is such a hard time and it is a hard time. I don't know. I don't have all the answers. I have an answer. I know what we're going to do during this hard time is we're going to remember. We're going to remember what we know in this book and we're going to remember as a group, meaning we're going to come together.
We Can Do Hard Things
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So go pre-order the book, please. I'm asking you to do that. And then we're going to remember in person. Okay, we're going to come back together as a community. We're going to be in the same room and we're going to get through this hard time together. So, is there anything else that you two want to add before we sign off and ask these people to do what we need them to do next?
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Anything else, Sissy?
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This is why this is so exciting, because it's not just one surprise. It's two! Because I so believe in the sort of life-saving power of this book. And this community. And because of this very interesting moment we're in. in this country and world, we have decided to hit the road to take this beautiful book and this beautiful message on tour.
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It's amazing. It's amazing to me that this is what we've been working on for years. Because, look, I don't think that a book is going to save the world. I'm not saying that. But I can't believe that this is what we've been working on and that we have this offering in this particular moment. It feels bespoke.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
That's right. Yes, you save the world, you can save, as Mary Oliver used to say.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Yeah. And I'm not afraid or ashamed to say that parts of this are really a two-way street, right? That like, if this is something that you want to go on, if this is important to you, we actually need you to do your thing. We're gonna do our thing and show up for tour. We're gonna put this book out. We need you to vote for that by doing your part today, which is pre-ordering the book.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
It means everything for many different reasons that I've explained before and I can in the future. It matters that there are pre-orders that say the world cares about this book and the world wants more of it. So please pre-order the book today. And if you want to come see us on tour, Get those tickets today because they'll go fast. We love you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
And if you don't want to do that, you can pre-order the book wherever books are sold. We love you. We can't believe we are going to go on this ride together. There's nobody else we'd rather go on it with than you, PodSquad. And shout out before we end to Allison, who we would be doing none of this, who has been with us since the very beginning. Without her, none of this podcast happens.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
None of the book happens. The book is just dripping with her, with Allison. Thank you, Allison.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
And in addition to Allison, shout out to Valerie and Annie and Audrey, who have also been just unbelievably wise and fun. Collaborators on this book. We love you so much. We're so grateful. We'll see you on tour. Go pre-order the book. Bye-bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
to your cities, to gather together, to be in the same room together, to celebrate, to truth tell, to comfort each other, to create an evening just full of hope and joy and unity. So, Sissy, can you tell them what they're supposed to do about the tour? Because what's going to happen is what always happens, which is
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First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Odyssey oder wo auch immer du Podcasts hörst.
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Und dann klickst du auf das Plus-Sign in der linken rechten Seite oder klickst auf Follower. Das ist das wichtigste für den Podcast. Während du da bist, wenn du uns eine 5-Star-Rating und Review geben und einen Episode mit einem Freund teilen würdest, wären wir sehr dankbar. Wir bedanken uns sehr.
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We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Probably this is going to sell out fast and then people are going to be sad that the tickets are gone. Can you tell them, Amanda, how to get tickets now first and how we are trying to do our best to protect them from the people who gather up all the tickets and then jack up the prices?
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Würde das nicht lustig sein? Wir werden dir die ganze Geschichte erzählen, wie dieses wunderschöne Leben-Guidebuch, dieses wunderschöne Buch zusammengekommen ist. Aber zuerst, was ich dir bitten würde, wenn du ein Zuhörer dieses Pods bist, wenn mein Arbeit etwas für dich in der Vergangenheit bedeutet, If you believe in our work and you want it to continue, here's where I ask you to do something.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Please pre-order We Can Do Hard Things, Answers to Life's 20 Questions. Pre-orders matter. Pre-order this book right now, anywhere where you buy your books. Simple, simple, simple. Just go to wherever you buy books and press pre-order. Or you can go to treatmedia.com
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Treat Media is a place where we're going to be keeping all the information you need about this book, about this tour, about the community. So pre-order the book today, wherever you order books, or go to Treat Media for all the links in one place.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Baby, tell them how you say tour. Tell them your way of saying tour.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Okay, you haven't been this excited for this long. I have never kept a secret for this long. I am not a secret keeper. I am a truth teller and I have been harboring this very exciting secret for so long. And today we get to tell you first, sweet pod squad, we have written a new book. Amanda
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
But that's not it. Oh, I see. Okay. So what you're saying is, if the word is spelled T-O-R-E, it's tour. And if the word is spelled T-O-U-R, it's tour. So for example, that would mean, how many stops are we making? One, two, three, four.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Okay, here we go. Let's tell our beautiful people how and why and what this gorgeous book is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Okay, first we have to tell them my life affliction. Which I have spent my whole life thinking was only my life affliction. And now I know it's a lot of people's because of the process of writing this book. Which is that the amount of times I've sat with Abby and said, why every day of my life do I feel like I'm Dory from Nemo, right?
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I feel like every single day of my life, since I have had consciousness... I am faced with the exact same issues, the exact same questions over and over and over again every single day. Why am I like this? How do I figure out what I want? How do I know what to do? How do I make peace with my body? Why can't I be happy? Am I doing any of this right? What is the point?
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
These are the questions I face every single day. And every day I just blink at these questions as if I am brand new here, as if I have never learned a damn thing. I am freshly clueless every single morning. And I think to myself, I am almost 50 years old. I know that I have learned a whole hell of a lot along the way. Why do I wake up every day having forgotten everything I know? It's like,
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
I want to remember things that I know. And you both know I have sort of I glossed this phenomenon into calling it beginner's mind. I just say, I have beginner's mind. But what that means is, I can't remember shit. I know I learned this already, but I guess I'll learn it freshly. When we wake up clueless and afraid, the three of us have sort of turned out to be each other's compasses, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
We check in with each other. We help each other remember what we know. We are each other's mirrors. As this pod squad knows, all in the span of one year, The three of us hit a really bumpy spot in life all at the same time. Okay, I was diagnosed with anorexia, Amanda was diagnosed with breast cancer, and Abby lost her beloved brother Peter. All of this happened right around the same time.
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Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
I mean, as many of you know, the harder life gets, the more clueless we feel. Now, I'm just going to repeat that as another part of this very bad system. The harder life gets, the more clueless we feel. The harder life gets, the harder it is to remember what we know, to gather the wisdom that we need to enter that hard time. When we need it the most, all our wisdom is gone.
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Und Abby und ich haben einen neuen Buch geschrieben, den wir geheim und diligent und sehr aufgeregt gearbeitet haben. Ja. Der Buch heißt We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
And we learned that together. We would just sit with each other and just stare at each other and say, how do we go on? What do we do next? What is the point of all of this? And so what did we do during that time? We started writing down every single thing. ein Stück Wissens, das wir erinnern konnten.
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Wir haben tiefe, tiefe Gespräche mit einander begonnen, diese Fragen von einander zu fragen, jeden Schmerz von Wissens, jeden Schmerz, den wir erinnern, lernen, der uns durch diese Zeit in der Leben hilft. Und dann, als wir uns für jeden Stück Wissens verabschiedeten, wir wussten, wir wurden nach außen und wir haben angefangen zu fragen, Vielen Dank.
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And we did this, PodSquad, the wild thing is, we just did this for ourselves.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
That was really super smart that that person said. But isn't that what happens? I just want to take a moment and say, that sounds wild, but that is what happens. When I feel lost and clueless because I'm facing some part of my life that feels unprecedented because everything always feels unprecedented to me, even though everything is precedented as shit I've been through. All of it already.
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Mm-hmm. I'm lost and our friend says something that saves our life in the moment and reminds us of who we are and reminds us of what we know. And it's like a flashlight that helps us step into the next thing. And then it's freaking gone.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Since November, Abby, Amanda, and I have been planning, dreaming up ways for this community to show up for each other, take care of each other, and continue building community. But you know that several months ago I quit social media, and the effects of that quitting on my nervous system, mind, and heart have been as dramatic as when I quit drinking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
So how do we unknow our people? I love that framework. Let's figure out instead of the prescription of date night, how it's been done, which does not help us unknow our person. How do we create time and experiences that help us unknow each other? Exactly. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And if you have friends that you think want to be part of these offerings in this moment, email them, tag them, whatever you need to do to get the newsletter to them because I won't be promoting it heavily on social media. Now, I can promise you two things about this newsletter. I will be writing to you directly. It will be me. I miss writing to you directly. I'm going to do it on the newsletter.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Even negative new information is intriguing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
But I kind of want to say one sentence about it. Okay? So it was information about, I'll just say like past relationships. Okay. Okay? That normally I would think would make me crazy and jealous and I don't want to talk about it. And a little bit it did make. But it also made me feel very zingy. Like, oh, I see you. I remember you were a full human being before our adulting life wore us down.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
That's aliveness, that feeling.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
It might be the only place that I'm doing that. And two, I will never sell or give or whatever people do with emails, okay? I will keep them safe and sacred. So here's what you do. Go to glennandoyle.com. You will see a sign-up box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address. If you're on Instagram, go to my page, click the link in bio.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
You know, when you never think that looking across at your partner and being like, she's eating linguine again. Like that doesn't do it. And it's also like, it makes me think a lot about teaching when kids, what?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Because it's so true, right? Oh, she's ordering fucking pasta again. Here we go.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I think about what we learned about vulnerability and child development, right? And for many reasons, the idea of parallel play, like how people learn how to connect with each other, is kids don't sit across from each other, staring each other in the eye. And together come up with a mutual plan of how to build a Legos. They sit next to each other and they're both, their bodies are engaged.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And then like little moments of connection and spark come and it's so precious. You can see it happening, but we forget that. Like I'll never forget when my kids said, I used to think when we need to have a serious talk or any kind of real talk, like a family moment where we got together, we should all sit down on the couch, stare at each other, call it a family meeting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And nothing shuts down my family more. The second I sit everybody down on the couch, they start going, are we getting divorced? Is somebody getting divorced? Like it brings up trauma of the hard conversations in the past. It shuts down people, especially if you are a person who's struggling to connect with your partner. Both partners know that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
That is the underlying like thing bubbling in the relationship. So when you sit down at a table and stare at each other, people panic and you don't even know you're panicking, but you see it as a test of your relationship. Yes. It's not loose. It's not free. The person who thinks that they're the reason they can't connect panics more and can't open up because they're in fight or flight.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
So I think if we measured all of the, bless their heart couples who are out to dinner, we would see that their nervous systems are frozen. We would see that all their shame is rising up and we would see how disembodied it is. Yeah. What you're talking about with like the movement and the walking, you know, how they say every emotional problem can be solved physically.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
You will see sign up for newsletter as the second button. Click the button and submit your email address. That's it. We are going to keep showing up for each other. The invitations will start coming soon on the newsletter. So go register now and I'll see you there. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Like it's makes sense that movement parallel play would foster the conditions to let the connection come instead of the forcedness of staring at each other in the eyeballs.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
You unknew your city. You dated your city.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Extended eye contact is tricky for me. I won't lie. Yeah. Oh my God.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Well, what's curious about that is that it's not even about the other person. It's like how I want to feel is interested. It's not even like, do I like that? Is that person blah, blah, blah? Is that person blah, blah, blah? It's like, oh no, actually this is about how I want to feel. which is makes sense. If you throw yourself into a vulnerable situation, it's about how you feel in that moment.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Okay. So one of the things I feel like that's a challenge for us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Yeah. And maybe all couples is that there's usually like a realm where one person is way more vulnerable and the other person is not. Okay. So for a very obvious example, I would give you throwing a ball back and forth. When you say that to me, I'm like, okay, I can tell who will be really vulnerable.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And I, as a person who did not during the early years of my life, learned to have a lot of agency in my physical prowess. I'm joking about it, but it's real. It's like, if I'm at a soccer game and the ball comes to me on the sideline as a mom, I have a full on
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
internal panic yeah I don't know how to kick this back and not look like I don't know what I'm doing also my ideal date would be like going to a museum there is a vulnerability in that that Abby has but I wouldn't you know so like I get confused about for whom sometimes the vulnerability is only for one person based on the kind of date you're choosing
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
If you have ever wondered what the hell to do on a date night, what the hell a date night is for, if you've ever stared at your children and tried to think of something to ask them or something to say, if you want to know how to use time together in a way that brings you closer. think that's what we're going to accomplish today. We're going to try. We're going to try. Sister's going to help us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
better than I was doing and that was good that tracks that's really cool I also like the tip of it not having to be at night truly that sounds silly but it's also anything that feels prescriptive and doesn't fit you like how many of us are not at our best at nighttime. Like that is just a totally arbitrary, this can be date breakfast. It can be date mid-afternoon. It can be date 3 p.m.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And then also one of my favorite suggestions, which is less, a little bit less relevant now to me, but was always the, this, maybe this isn't a problem for anyone else, but it's like the anticipatory mandatory make-out session after a can kind of put this weird pressure on the whole thing, especially for couples that have intimacy issues.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
So if that's a goal I really like, this is so crass, but the fuck first. It's good. It's called fuck first. It's like, yeah, if that's an important part of it and there's like kind of a loaded thing around it, just if it's important to you, just do it first. then go off on your thing without that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Yeah, and then it's like, are we connecting enough during this to make that feel natural? Is this successful enough to make it feel like it's the cherry on the sundae or is this even a sundae enough to make the cherry? It's too much, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Okay. I just promised a lot of things. Sister, do you think that we can do those things? And is that actually what this episode is going to be about? I mean, a good portion.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I like the idea of over time, if there were pod squatters listening that would maybe want to like juice it up a little bit and try the idea of novelty, which in itself is tricky. As someone who tends to think what I want to do is spend my time with my people in comfort. Like for me, comfortability is so what I tell myself is the most important, which is
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
leads us to do the same things over and over and over again, which I have noticed. I'm a person who wants to watch the same movie 60 times because I know how it ends so I can relax. But I have noticed that memory making, if I do the same things with my cozy family, like
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
It's been wild, and it's been extremely important for me to experience. Since that quitting, I have felt calmer, braver, and clearer, actually. And in the midst of that, we have come up with some honestly terrifyingly realer and more embodied ways to connect with you and as a community than on social media.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
30 nights in a row I love it happy happy happy I don't remember shit the memories what crystallizes are weird times when we did something different so there's something about memory if making memories is important to you with your people this is a surefire way to do it and it's almost like sometimes when I'm doing something novel with Abby or the kids I tell myself
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I don't know if this is fun right now. I don't know if I'm having a good time, but in retrospect, this is going to be great. There's some kind of like retrospect benefit that doesn't feel always like in the moment Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,, ,,,,,, The green ones are if we have $100 extra. And then here's my other tip. Because with any new thing that I'm trying, this is what I tell myself. Because I have a double consciousness always of I'm in a moment, but then I'm judging the moment. I'm saying, is this working? Is this worth it? Are you still doing that though?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Yeah, I understand that because I remember in a previous relationship, we would go to like, okay, let's say the quote doctor, the therapist, because you said it's a prescription, right? We would go to the, and we would say, we can't connect. We don't have physical intimacy. We don't have emotional intimacy. And the therapist would say, would write out the little prescription of date night. And so-
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
So what I tell myself is if I'm trying something brand new, like therapy, a new therapy, or a new way of life, whatever, I will give this six months.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I will not judge these things by one thing at a time. It's like putting yourself out of a job. It's actually quite wonderful. I will just, because you can't, these sorts of experiences are cumulative experiences. You can't expect that you're going to go do this sort of situation and an hour later, you're going to feel so bonded. You're going to be whatever.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
But it is this sort of thing that if you commit to it over time, you might notice six months later that you have a little more softness or that you're a little bit lighter or that you, you know, despise your person a little bit less. Whatever you're going for. It might happen over time. Whatever's your particular threshold.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
So it could be like, we're going to try this for three months, six months, whatever. And let's just tell ourselves that we can judge the shit out of this on this date. But that we don't have to even think about that before. That's smart. I like that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
We would go to a restaurant, which we couldn't afford, sit at a table and stare at each other, which only emphasized and made it more obvious and horrific that we had nothing to talk about, that we couldn't. It was horrible, actually. And also, there's so many problems just to start off with, like date night. Why does it have to be at night? I'm already out. Why not date afternoon? Right. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I really am excited about this. And then also, let's do this. I think that this could be a great wide service to the pod squad. I really think, what if we had people write in or call in about what they're putting in their bowls? The date ideas. Yeah, because we shouldn't have to just do it all ourselves.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And then it takes away responsibility of I want to do this. You want to do this. It's like, no, this is what we're doing. Okay. Call in 747-200-5307. Tell us your creative... bonding, enlivening, unknowing your partner or your kids or your friends, activities. What do you do to unknow your people better?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Yeah. Which reminds me of something Esther Perel used to always say, which is like, We look to our partners to like turn us on, right? Where she always says, how do you turn yourself on? Your job is not to come to your partner and stare at them and wait for them to turn you on. Like, well, it's not working. Yeah, you could do that, but good luck, right? It's like, what turns you on?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
And then you approach your partner already turned on. And like, I don't necessarily mean like erotica, although great if that's it. But also like maybe creativity, maybe rest, maybe I don't know what it is that makes you feel alive. And then you approach your person. But like your turned on-ness is your responsibility. And that feels like this a little bit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
There he is eating his fucking linguine again. Pod squad, we love you. We'll see you back next time. Yeah. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
spotify odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow this is the most important thing for the pod while you're there if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend we would be so grateful we appreciate you very much
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Yeah. And then wait, wait, wait, just to set it up more. Cause I want to talk a little bit about the challenges before we move on to like all the solutions.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Also the pressure of date night, because would you say the problem that most people are trying to fix with date night is like, there's so much adulting going on, or there's so many distracting things that you're not connecting on a deeper level or whether that's emotional or physical. And so that's the presenting symptom that gets you to date night.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
But what I always used to remember too, was the pressure of the physical intimacy at the end of the date night. So it's like this prescription, like you're supposed to like, all I could think about at dinner was, oh God, we're going to also have to make out afterwards. Maybe that was a personal problem.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I want to keep showing up for each other and I want to keep building community now more than ever, but I don't want to do it on social media anymore. So here's what I'm telling you today. Soon, I'm going to be inviting you into something special and the invitation is first going to go to you through my new newsletter.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Okay, I have a new newsletter and all of my invitations and Abby and Amanda's invitations to new projects, new events, all the beautiful offerings we're planning are going to come to you first on this newsletter. All right, now listen, if history proves to be an indicator, what will happen is the newsletter will go out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Okay. Is it the vulnerability? Because when you say we do things that are comfortable over and over again, that sounds very familiar to me. In those comforting, same neurological paths, same, we're not having any moments of vulnerability together. Is it the vulnerability of a risky new situation, whether it's a concert or just like crawling across a thing?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Is it shared vulnerability that creates more shared dopamine and connection?
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Everyone who receives the newsletter will sign up for these offerings and then they will be sold out. That's what happens. And then everyone gets sad and mad who didn't get the invitation in time. And since I am in my programs, I know that will not be my responsibility, but still I don't want it to happen. So please sign up for the newsletter now so you won't be sad or mad later.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
We do all become different people in different scenarios. I think the identity is much less solid than we think it is. It's always changing and fluid. And that makes sense that if you get
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
people into different places and with different people and with different experiences they become different parts of themselves well up and then we get to see our people fresh and new and so it does make sense that it's like Before we change the person, maybe we try changing the conditions. Yeah. And seeing if a different person emerges that excites us. But also a different person inside of us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
at treatmedia.com. Okay. So you click the option that says I've already pre-ordered from another indie, and then you upload that and you're going to get a link too, because we don't want you missing out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Also, one last thing, if you can't make it to the event, but you still want to be part of this, we're going to make sure that you get a link to the event that will allow you to view it for 72 hours after the event. Okay. So yay for independent booksellers. We are so grateful for them. They serve our communities in a million ways.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Glennon? Well, first what I want to say is you are really damn lovable too, Craig. Oh, God, you're so good. This is not just about you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And I will say, I will tell my little story, but I just allow me to say one thing that I have been carrying around this letter that I wrote to you after your mom died. I brought it to Martha's Vineyard. Oh, wow. I could not get up the courage to take it out of my pocket. Then the only reason I came to your damn holiday party, because I don't go to parties, was to deliver this damn letter again.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And then we were standing by you and Abby kept going, give it to me. Give me the letter. And I got in the car and said, I didn't do it again. So the point is this. When I found out that your mother had died, I had this really interesting experience that felt like I described it to Abby as like, I had a very deep sinking feeling.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
All the benefits from this event are going to go to those independent booksellers. Get your tickets at treatmedia.com and we will see you there. Well, PodSquad. It's very exciting. It is very exciting. The reason it is very exciting is that guess who's coming to join the PodSquad today? The hosts of the new podcast, IMO, in my opinion, with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And the sinking feeling was that having watched you for so long and feeling such admiration and also exhaustion for you and feeling like gratitude that you had the shelter of her in your life. It was comforting to everyone else who loves you to know that you had that. And so the sinking was very
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
a sadness, but then there was like this rising that felt, I described it to Abby as like the values that you all pointed us back towards, you know, the humility and the service and the community and the love. Having read your work, it was just so clear that it came from her. Yeah. Yeah. That like what you brought into the White House and like you know, beamed out to us was actually of her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
So it just felt like an honoring of really, truly a founding mother of our country. That this is not a place that was founded once, that it's an ongoing experiment and that her spirit and values and honor is what was given to us. So thank you for sharing her with us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
You too. It's good. You too. You just, it sounds like, okay, I'll tell you my story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
What is it? So I have been spiraling around and what has been an eating disorder since I was 10 years old. Okay. And I keep every five years, I think I've nailed it. And then back. Okay. So recently I had another,
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
slide back and it's okay I'm getting I know how to get the help that I'm getting I was writing about it a little bit and talking about the feeling of you know when you kind of have one struggle that you just keep coming back to like I thought I kind of always had a feeling like I was gonna have a victory I was gonna graduate from it at some point I was gonna have a finish line and it just struck me that oh I'm almost 50 so this might just be my thing and it
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I had a feeling of whatever the feeling is for wondering if people are just sick of your thing. If they're just going, oh my God, seriously again? So I wrote about it a little bit. And this stranger... wrote back to me. Now they didn't know that I was reading their responses because I'm not supposed to for my mental health. So because of that, I read everything. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
No, I know. It's good. Well, I don't do social media, but these are like, people don't tend to hate read a newsletter. So it's usually loving and, you know, so they responded, this woman responded to me and she said, I hear you being tired of this story of yours.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Oh my God, we love these two. Michelle Obama's passion for storytelling has set sales records, garnered awards and accolades, and earned her global acclaim. Her memoir, Becoming, love that book, spent over 130 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list, sold more than 17 million copies worldwide. Holy cow.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I want you to know that humpback whales, when they're born, are born with one tone, one song, and they're meant to sing it every single day of their life from the time they're born to the time they die, and that's their only song, and that's their duty. Wow. And I thought, I have not stopped thinking about it since I heard that little... It reminded me of... I was trying to explain to Abby why...
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And I think it has to do with, you know, that poem by Mary Oliver, the wild geese poem that ends with like, it's about despair and struggle. But then it says, really, you can just take your place in the family of things. That's how it felt to me. Like, I'm just an animal and I've got one song. And it's okay if I spiral around it for the rest of my days.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And maybe I'm meant to have it so that other people that have that same song, we can like find each other. And I don't know. It just really meant a lot to me. I don't know why stories about animals always seem to help me. I don't even go outside often.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
American Factory, the first film produced by her and her husband, Barack Obama's media company, Higher Ground, won the Academy Award for Best Documentary in 2020. Upon its release in 2020, the Michelle Obama podcast was the most successful original in Spotify history, bringing in more women listeners over 40 than any other podcast.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I remember at my first 12 step meeting, when I fell in love with all of it, somebody said something about, well, they're not happy. And someone else said, well, being human isn't about feeling happy. It's about feeling everything.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And I thought, oh yeah, that's right. And the other thing about struggle is it does make us stronger and it makes us wiser. It also makes me kinder. Like every time I get knocked down like this, I just feel like, oh yeah, I just feel more tender to everybody. It's just a reminder of the struggle in everyone. It's kind of an equalizer. So thank you for that. Oh, thank you. What about you, babe?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
No, I think they're older than yours, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Do whatever you want, we said.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Through the Obama Foundation, she founded the Girls Opportunity Alliance, which supports adolescent girls' education and empowerment around the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
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We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
,,,,,,,
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And we've been on it. We're on one of the episodes. We went to Martha's Vineyard to be with them and record it. And I don't know, y'all. You know my deep abiding admiration for Michelle Obama. But just being with them in person, just so loving, so kind, so...
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I'm going to tell mine, but I'm changing mine because I feel like I want to go back to what Michelle was saying in the beginning, which was so inspiring to me about living this era of your life to not disappoint yourself. Because our middle one came home a while back and said, I had this thing at school. And Chase, who's our oldest, he wants me to join all these clubs.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Okay, you all have heard us talk about how excited we are that our new book is coming out on May 6th. It's called We Can Do Hard Things, Answers to Life's 20 Questions. And when we announced the book on my newsletter, A Little Treat, the tour sold out very fast, quicker than we were thinking. And many of you wrote and said how sad you were that the tour sold out too fast for you to get tickets.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And you know that no matter how much 12-step work, I do. I can't seem to not be deeply affected when you all are sad. So I told you I'd try to figure something out to help those who felt sad about missing their chance to get tickets. Here's what we're doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Because he was like Mr. Club Man and doing all the things. And she was like, I don't want to be in these clubs. And I was like, well, then what are you doing? Like, don't be in the clubs. And she said, I don't want to disappoint him. And... I thought, oh, okay. So your job your whole life is to disappoint everybody.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That is literally your job. You have to disappoint everybody so that you don't disappoint yourself. And then I was talking to my, Liz Gilbert's one of my best friends, and I was telling her that story about the kids. And she said, even think about that word, disappoint. To disappoint someone, you've already appointed them. You've appointed a different person, the boss of yourself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Or the leader of your life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
So your job is to dethrone them over and over again every single day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I think we all have different versions of the same thing. We do. All right, so let's end with this so you can get back to your vacay. Yes. What is the thing you do? Let's say you don't have each other. You don't have the people to talk to. You do not have the communal wisdom to tap into. What do you do when you have to just find your inner wisdom? Do you have a practice? Do you meditate?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Do you walk? Do you paint? What do you do when you need to tap into your own knowing?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
How are you two? How you doing? Good. We're so good. Thank you for doing this. Yes. Thank you. Oh my gosh.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Same. Mine's just the bath. I would say for her, it's the bath. I take like three baths a day. You guys. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I take far too many baths. A lot of retreating.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah, it's starting over. It's baptism for a reason. It's like, I need to begin again. Some sort of tears, bath, something. But I also think the shower, I mean, our youngest used to say, all these magical things happen to me in the shower. And I would say that's called thinking. That's because you don't have earbuds in. It's like Googling your brain. Like that's what people do is they think.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We love it. Yeah. And that's what we want to talk to you about today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That's what's happening. You two... Our damn delight. Yeah. We want you to go right back to your vacation and your family time together. We absolutely love your new podcast. We're going to be shouting it from the rooftops. And we're so grateful to both of you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Okay. Okay? Because what Abby and I discuss often is, I don't know if you all have noticed this, but we find life to be difficult. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Now it's too much accountability.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
She's done it now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Okay. The opening of the eyes. And I used to only be a writer. And the challenge that I realized is the problem with writing is then it's only me. So yeah, I'm never going to leave knowing more than I came because it's just me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And so the power and beauty, which is what M.I.O. is doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That there is a kind of new, fresh, collective wisdom that can be tapped into during conversation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That is a beautiful... helpful thing, which is what's happening on your podcast. Yes. Okay. Because you can go into it and think, well, I know. And still there's a freshness and newness that comes out because of the chemical reaction of two new people having a beautiful conversation. And my brother.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
In support of those of you who couldn't get tickets and in support of our beloved local independent booksellers, we are hosting a live virtual event on Pub Day of We Can Do Hard Things on May 6th. a live virtual event that will benefit independent bookstores across the country.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Do you know, that's so interesting because we have reached the screen time moment where when we are watching a movie as a family, I'm like, oh God, we are such a good family. Like, look, we are so, our togetherness. I'm like, wait, this is just not OK. It's good enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
So in order to get your ticket, you can click the registration button for the live virtual event at the top of treatmedia.com. And then you're going to pre-order We Can Do Hard Things through one of the independent bookstore links. All proceeds from this event will go to these local independent bookstore links. So your ticket to the event will include a copy of We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Thank you. And there's hope. I think parents, because it can be stressful because you think, oh God, I did my best and I screwed this up. But it is, you brought up smoking. Everybody was smoked. Doctors were smoking. We know what we know when we know it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
It's a dream for us. And what we wanted to talk to you about, it doesn't have to be from your podcast, but it could be. We wanted to ask you, when was the last time you read something or saw something or heard something that kind of just like saved your life in the moment that helped you put something back into proper perspective or gave you a clarity and comfort and courage to begin again?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Whether it's advice or a story or just something that made you go, oh, yeah. That's mind shifting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
answers to life's 20 questions. Now here's the deal. If you already pre-ordered the book from an independent bookstore, you don't have to buy it again to come to the event. If you want to and give your copy away, great. We're not going to complain. But if you already did and you don't want to order another one, we totally understand. So you can register for the event by uploading your indie order
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Okay, so something cool has been happening in my life that I have been doing, which Abby knows because she's been watching. I have, for the first time in five years, been setting my little alarm at night to get up very early and write. I have been writing again. And it has been a treat for me. Okay? Me too. And then here's what I've been doing with my writing each day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Anyway, I just decided I wanted, if I was going to do a newsletter, I wanted it to be different. I want it to just be a little treat, like a little treat for me to write, a little treat for whoever's opening it to like, Give them a little joy for the day. So it's called A Little Treat. I'm loving it. I just sent my first one out last week. I think people are really liking it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Some versions of it for sure. But then the interesting thing is when my brain says absolutely manifestation is bullshit because of what you just said, because of the culture that we live in, because of systematic racism, because of homophobia, because of misogyny.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Then there's another part of my brain that goes, but isn't systematic racism and misogyny a manifestation of a bunch of people who thought this into existence?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Yeah, right. It's very individual, right? Yeah. Or maybe we don't know. Maybe there's groups of people getting together and manifesting together and like doing the opposite of what the people have done to get us to this place. Maybe there are people manifesting collective liberation. That's not what we really see on TikTok.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But then you guys like, I'm thinking all this and then I'm like, oh my God, in Untamed, I literally wrote... that we should all write down the truest, most beautiful families, countries, communities we can imagine. And that when you write it down, when you are intentional and you think through what you want, then you put it down in paper.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And then that becomes a blueprint for making it real, that our dreams and our plans, they come to life one dimension at a time. So what the hell is that if not manifestation? And there is a part of me that says, well, of course, if you don't know where you're going, if you leave your house and you don't have a destination, then you're just going to drive around and wander.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And if you, in your mind, have an idea of where you're going, then of course you have a better chance of getting there. So there's a lot about this that also makes perfect sense.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And obviously, if you want to register for the newsletter, you have to give me your email address. Obviously, I will never do anything shady with your email addresses, okay? I wouldn't know how, but even if I could, I would never. I will protect your email addresses with my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Is that a bias now? Thinking science is real is a bias?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
If you want my little treat newsletter, which will not be a list of my accomplishments, it will just be a helpful little story. Go to glennandoyle.com. You'll see a signup box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address and that's it. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
It's like making a path and then you ski down it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
It's like you're creating a neurological path that then you can access physically. That's how it feels to me. Yeah. Yep. Do you guys wonder, I sometimes feel suspicious of my own suspicion of manifestation because I'm always looking for where the misogyny that the culture has planted inside of me
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And sometimes I wonder if not all, but some of our disdain for manifestation is because it's more of a female way of talking. Like, If a guy is saying, I want this, I'm planning this, I'm envisioning this, we just call it leadership. Is manifestation as like the way we see it play out something that is more female than male? And that is why there's a cringe vibe to it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And then if you're on Instagram, you can go to my page, click the link in bio, and you'll see sign up for newsletter as the second button. click that button and submit your email address. And then you'll get the little treat in your inbox. Yeah, exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I mean, the beliefs thing is a thing, right? It doesn't have to be like, I believe that I'm going to get a hundred dollar bill when I walk out the door. Like that, not that type of belief, but like if, if I come to a group of people and I'm thinking and feeling, and I know this from much experience, if I come into a group, everything about me is the same. All right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I'm not like scowling or whatever, but I'm thinking I cannot stand these people. I want this to be over. I can tell the difference. I'm affecting people by what I'm thinking. I'm not saying that I understand what the hell or why. I just know based on my experience on this earth that when I come to a group of people and I'm thinking, I love these people. We are lucky to be together.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
We're going to make beautiful, whatever it is. everything goes differently than when I come in with different thoughts. That part, I believe. That's confirmation bias.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I know. And by the way, it's a little treat because I was talking to Lizzie Gilbert about this two days ago because she was so excited that I was writing again. And I said, I forgot that the reason I haven't... One of the reasons I haven't been writing is because I always think I have to write a book and it's so long and big. And I don't know things that are long.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Does that make sense? I think I feel much more comfortable with the whole concept when you're talking about it that way, when it's about brain science, when it's about energy because I can be with you for all of that. I haven't thought this all the way through, so just I'm going to stumble through it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But there's something about when the God thing gets added, because honestly, when we say the universe, we're talking about the big energy. We're talking about God. We're talking about some higher power, some organization, organizing force. Right. That's what we're saying. Right. So that is when it starts to get scary to me, because in spiritual traditions, money is not
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
considered the thing that reflects whether God approves of you or you are good. Like most spiritual traditions, it is the opposite of that, right? So when prosperity gospel, which is basically saying, if God loves you, God wants you to be rich. God wants you to have so much money. There's a million different forms of that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But to me, when that is entered into the field as an idea, as a spiritual idea, then every time we are testing something that someone's telling us, is that true? You have to test the shadow side, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
So if it is true that if God loves us and approves of us, God wants us to be rich, then that also means if you are poor and you don't have money, then God somehow does not approve of you, which is how, to me, we end up with the broligarchy running what They are pitching as Christianity, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I don't know things for a long time. Okay? I don't know how to explain that except I only know things shortly. But then I'm clear. I'm like, wow, I know that thing. And I write it down and then...
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
That is how the slow, slippery slide into slowly believing that if God, you can tell that God has anointed you, whether you're rich, if you're rich, means nothing. We can approve of Donald Trump as a Christian figure. How? It must have to do with how rich he is. Like God has chosen him.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
We end up with Elon Musk as a leader. We end up with like all of these... For me, they're not disconnected, this idea that we have somehow allowed. And what I would say is for that to be entered into Christianity is a stunning reversal of the biblical ideas of the meek shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the poor. Like the kingdom of God is with them.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
There's a Bible story where Jesus is out in the desert being tested and the devil comes to him and says, right now, say the words, I want to be rich. Say the words, I want power back. Literally saying, you know, you can manifest this shit. Just say it if you're God. And Jesus going, absolutely not.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
get behind me because there's something in that story about I can manifest whatever the hell I want to and it's not going to be that kind of power and it's not going to be money it's going to be this collective liberation dream so when manifestation is tied to prosperity to empire power that's when all the ickiness comes in from me and having said that I sure as hell understand
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
In a system like this, where power and money are hoarded, and so many people have so little, and we are completely disenfranchised with all systems, it also makes sense to me for people to be like, I'm taking this shit into my own hands. And I do want to play with the power that I have and call money towards me and call power.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
So, and both for me, but scares me when prosperity gospel enters any realm at all.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
what could be yeah that's why Trisha Hershey's work is so freaking important right that's like there's a field you can go to that is beyond what we see that you can dream up something new inside of because otherwise we are just constantly either in obedience to the culture or in rebellion to the culture but either of those are still not originating from an original place inside of us
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
We're just constantly responding to the quote man, whether we're obeying or rebelling, it's still in reaction.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I guess like what I would say about what scares me about manifestation in some of the ways it's presented and why I understand it too is in times of pain and chaos and broken systems like we're in right now. And I'm not saying, I understand the system is working exactly as it's supposed to. I mean, broken and spiritually and morally.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And in times when so many people feel such a loss of power and control, I fear that our little projects of safety and liberation will become more individualized. For example, we're still in the midst of when we'll be for years in responding to what
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
pockets of the quote solution being people individually hiring private firefighters and protective things for their individual home and buying them with their own money. And my God, I understand the human need to protect your family. I mean, I'm not saying that I wouldn't be doing that, honestly. I don't know. But it scares me because I'm thinking this is like...
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
a horrible version of Darwinism, but all based on money. Can we manifest? Yes, but can we do it together? Can we dream up a new way of building that means that everybody, regardless of how much money they have, whether they have enough to could maybe survive another fire, or can we manifest together? Can we avoid, resist the like capitalistic whiteness
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
project of individual protection, individual manifestation, individual survival and collectively dream.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
We love you, PodSquad. I assume you're going to have some thoughts. The inbox is open. The voicemails are open. We'd love to hear what you have to say.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Just manifest it to yourself and get in touch with us. We'll see you next time. I know we will because I have seen it. And we've already manifested it. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I've been doing the same thing that I did during my early blogging days, where I avoided perfectionism by saying, I'm just going to write for an hour and a half or an hour, and then I'm going to scent. Press scent. And that kept me from perfectionism, which is why all the rest of my career unfolded. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Oh my God, that's so woo-woo of you. And that's good that you're feeling woo-woo today because what we're talking about today is a word that makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. It gives Glennon the ick. Yes. So the Gen Zers say. Right. And that word is manifestation. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Because even the word makes me feel uncomfortable. So I feel like I have to say it in a way that like you can sense my air quotes or something. But I will admit that while the idea of manifestation makes me roll my eyes, I also... think it's kind of true, but completely untrue. I'm having a hard time, as I told Abby and my sister, I don't know what my take is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But one of the reasons that we're talking about manifestation today is because, well, on New Year's, one of our teenagers was like, we're going home from the party because we're we're going to make our vision boards. And I was like, I'm sorry, what did you say? You're making vision boards, which felt very like back to the 90s, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And so I think the idea of manifestation is having a resurgence with the Gen Alpha, Gen Z kiddos. And so we just thought, we would get together and talk about what manifestation is. Well, what it means to us. Okay. And Sissy, what do you think? Sister will tell us what it is. It is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Okay, Abby Wambach, I love you. Tell- the pod squad, what that is to you. What's the law of attraction? What was the secret? What did you love about it? Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And what was the promise of it that made you feel attracted to it? What's the secret?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
What I've been doing with these little writings is I've been sending them in a newsletter to all the love bugs who are registered for my newsletter. Okay. I don't know what the hell is going to happen. All I know is it's great fun so far. It reminds me of my early writing days. It's just us. It's just me writing. I avoided newsletters for so long because I don't like newsletters.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Okay. If you think good thoughts, good things happen. If you think bad thoughts, bad things happen. If you speak things into the universe, you can make your requests known and it will come back to you. That's manifestation, right? You can think, speak, focus your way towards
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Just that is, it makes my whole body reject that. That's a great news for someone who has mental health issues or that is so damning in a way to think about like, oh, so we teach everyone that they're not their thoughts. And then if I have like obtrusive thoughts, then I'm going to have a bad life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Yeah. I think it's interesting. I can understand. Okay. If you, you know how religions, there's always the religion. Okay. And there's people who subscribe to that religion. And that usually has a lot to do with kind of deferring to group, a group idea and like, taking on a community and working inside and sort of having like middlemen between you and God. That's kind of what religion is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And then there's always a form of religion of that religion that is a mystical version of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
So there's like, The mystics are the ones who I definitely identify more now with the mystic version of a religion. So I feel a lot of Christian energy or something inside of me, but I subscribe more to the idea of like, I would like to remove the...
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
dogma and the middlemen and just have like a direct experience with God, that is very convenient for someone like me who also doesn't, people scare me. So it kind of takes the community aspect out of religion when you only go to mysticism, right? To me, manifestation feels a little bit like that. If you are disenchanted with religion, manifestation kind of says you don't need any of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
It's just you and your thoughts. It's just you. It's you and God or you and the universe. You don't need other people. You don't need a dogma, which makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. Like it's just part of individualism of Western individualism that we don't need anything but us. We're like our own little gods, which is true also.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I always feel like When I get one that feels overwhelming, it feels like it's mostly just like a report of everything the person has been accomplishing in the world, which feels like, why is this for me? This feels like it's for you. Like, should I write back and say, congratulations? Like, I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But do you think, I guess I just don't see a lot of people manifesting collective liberation. Yeah, exactly. It feels like people are always manifesting like a car or a new job or more money, which is good. People should have a car and money, but it just, that form of manifestation, it doesn't feel like it's connected to collective liberation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
It feels like it's always aimed towards an individual perfectionist. It feels to me like manifestation. is the mysticism of capitalism.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And then I did want to say one more thing about this question because there is a way of reading this question that is that jesse is struggling with a way that her partner is teasing her making jokes about her but there's another way to interpret this question that what if jesse's partner is making jokes that are universal or a wider that hurt other people Do you know what I'm saying?
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Yeah. And there's a whole thing about that, that we just need to When people say something that feels hurtful or that feels inappropriate or use a word that is, and look, I'm not talking about the big words. Like there are words that you can say that mean you're just dead to me forever and it's over. But I'm talking about the whole nuance of the rest of it, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Yeah. And I think there's like this way of some people feel that there's a get out of jail free card that you can say these things that are in this gray bubble. But if you add, I was joking afterwards, it's somehow should be a get out of jail free card. So I just want to be clear. You can think that you can say that you can keep saying, I was just joking.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
But what I want you to know is that everyone else in the room is That doesn't change what you just said. And it doesn't have to do with whether what you said is funny to you or somebody else. What happens in the aftermath is that you have revealed something about yourself that now everybody else cannot unknow. And it doesn't have to be that you're an evil person.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It just is that you have not done any sort of deep thinking about what you just said. And it reveals something about you to everybody. And it's not, nobody's asking themselves, is he funny or not? Everybody's just saying, wowza.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I didn't know that about him. I didn't know that he thought about that issue so little. I didn't know that he was the type of person who would think, punching down in any way would be funny. It is an illumination of who you are on the inside, the words that come out of your mouth.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And so that is very, when you have a partner, like I imagine Jesse could be in this, that is constantly illuminating something about himself in front of other people, it can be humiliating to the partner because by association, it feels like it's illuminating something about Jesse, which is that she's partnered with this person.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
What's the quality under it? Like what if the 10% that we can't ever figure out, why am I triggered right now when I wasn't last week? It could be that there's like an energy of vibration in the exact same words that suddenly feel critical, which makes me think about humor in general. Humor, the word comes from humble, right? Really? Humor is a place where people go to...
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. And today we have one of our favorite shows for you, which is when we... avoid our own problems by trying to solve yours. Yay! This is my comfort zone. What a relief. I know, right? Isn't this great? Okay, so let's just jump in. Let's just hear from these loves. Let's start with Jessie.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
with different intentions. One of the reasons I love Tig Notaro, who's of course one of our dear friends, is that if you watch, I don't think there's anybody funnier than Tig and her stand-ups. And if you watch her stand-ups from beginning to end, there is never a punchdown. Not a single one of her jokes takes a victim, except every once in a while when it's her. Herself, yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Which she doesn't even do that in a punishing way. And so it's this very high level of humor that now we all know we can watch another comedian. Is that humor? Yes, it's humor, humor. And it's such a different quality. It's biting. It's not humble. There's kind of like a nastiness in it that makes us laugh in a way that doesn't feel quite as good as you do laughing with Tig Notaro.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Okay. So Rachel just asked the question that I might swirl around the most. I think this is so fascinating and being a person who is in this world that thinks of themselves as an artist and a writer and has a million writer artist friends and I have had so many fascinating conversations about this. And I feel like I could talk about it a million different ways on a million different days.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
But I'd like to address the specific thing that Rachel talks about, which is, is the anxiety fueling the art in a way that when peace comes, the art suffers? When the artist stops suffering as much, does the art suffer? And does the artist need to suffer to create good art? And why do people who naturally suffer become artists or vice versa? It's just like she said, the chicken and an egg thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Okay. I'm going to say one thing and then argue with myself on the other side. I sometimes feel like, yes, it does feel like artists have more dramatic highs and lows, whatever you call anxiety and depression. We also know more about artists. Like, In our particular culture, people who make movies and TV shows and books and all of these things are just more visible, discussed more.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
They're the people we've decided should have spotlights on them, which I think is arbitrary and weird. Like I sometimes think, why don't teachers and doctors, why don't we have the magazines full of them? But okay, since we know more about them and since they reveal their insides as their profession, we see their insides. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It's possible that if you sit down and ask a hundred doctors and teachers to pour their insides out, we would see more anxiety, depression, complexity, but that's not their job. They have to actually do stuff. So they can't just walk around emotionally and spiritually bleeding like artists do on a regular basis. So there's that.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I also think that there are people in cultures since the beginning of time who for whatever reason, nature, nurture, spiritual reasons, trauma, whatever, become visionaries for the group, for the culture, okay? And this is just, it's studyable. It's the medicine men. This is since the beginning of time.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Every culture has people who their job is to be a little weird and, you know, stand on the bow of the Titanic. And while everyone else is keeping things moving, say, I think I see an iceberg, iceberg, iceberg. And everybody else is like, all right, she's screaming about an iceberg. Do we think this one is real? You know, these are the prophets in the desert screaming to the people. Okay.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
The person who is that person, who we would call an artist, whether a highly sensitive person, whether they're in a family or in a culture, in a neighborhood, the reason they are that is because they have this weird internal vision of how things could be. All right, so they see what's on the outside of the world, what's visible, the order of things.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
But they have this internal vision of how it could be, how it should be, a more beautiful version of whatever they're looking at, their family, their marriage, their community, their world. They carry around with them this internal longing, this vision. There is a gap between
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
between what they see every day outside of them and the vision, the internal vision, a huge gap between what is and what they know could be. And that gap is the anxiety and the depression. The stronger the internal vision, the more dramatic and hard the gap is between.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Imagine if you were looking at a situation and every part of your being knew that person would hurt less, that community would be better off if everybody just... And you had this heaviness that was a knowing. The bigger the vision, the bigger the gap. I think that That is an oversimplified way of presenting it, but it's part of the beauty of being an artist.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And the burden of being an artist is carrying a vision that you can't necessarily get everybody on board with unless you struggle in the dark. to pull the vision out of your body and somehow put it into words that other people can see and act upon to bring your idea of heaven to earth. On earth as it is in heaven is how I think of artists.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Like the heaven is the internal beauty, beautiful family, relationship, community, world that I can almost see and touch. And my job is to bring it to the earth in a way that everybody can see it as possible marching orders, which can feel freaking hard and heavy because we can never figure out how to actually put the unseen order into action.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Yeah. And think about the fact that when an artist or, okay, I'll use myself for an example. I could not figure out how to make my primary romantic relationship be even close to as true and beautiful as I believed two people can be together. I'm talking about my first marriage. It was like, whoa, no, my first marriage. Like I, all of my writing was pointing towards that.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I can't even look at Love Warrior anymore. I feel heartbroken for both of us, for Craig and me. It was a,
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
anxious struggle to be like this isn't it like how do we make it better it was the gap between what was the kind of marriage we had and what I had inside of me as a vision for what a marriage could be between two people the gap was so vast that it was so painful okay and some good art came out of it yes when I met you and we built this life together the gap is not there anymore
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I mean, I've got other gaps, but like the gap, it's not the easiest thing. I mean, we work for it, but there's not a gaping gap anymore. And I stopped writing. Like I didn't, what Rachel is saying is there is a truth in it. When the gap is lessened between what a person like me knows could be, and then they finally get the thing.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
taste that in my mouth yeah that's until I've made it out yeah that's that's artistry the gap between existing Boston cream pies and And the truest, most beautiful Boston cream pie she could possibly imagine was insufferable to her.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
The gap between the two, the fact that that hadn't been born onto the earth was so insufferable to her that she was willing to spend years making sure that she brought to earth the heavenly cream pie that was being born inside of her. That is artistry. Yes. Knowing that we wouldn't know the difference between year third and year 10.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
essays and about that time and I will probably never publish them there's an energy that I'm not interested in exploring publicly right now there's something about that sort of suffering it was all real and it's all part of the journey I've been on to be freer but At the moment, I'm not interested in dragging people back into that energy. I think it's a place I can get stuck.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And I think it's too easy for me at this point. It's almost like trauma bonding. It's like trauma bonding or something. I don't know. I can't figure it out. It's just not the truest, most beautiful version of what I think we all need next is what I can say. But I also sometimes think it's not. We write and we create.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
For the same reason, people who are stressed out, they tell you to breathe deeply. It's like when you focus on your breathing, you can't focus on your spinning mind because you can't focus on both things at the same time, okay? It's not just that breathing deeply gives you more oxygen, which makes your brain work better. It's not just that.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
People say, stop and focus on your breathing because you literally cannot do both at the same time. You can't spin out and concentrate on your spinning thoughts and concentrate on your breath. So one of the reasons why anxious people create, go to the page, go to the paintbrush, is because you cannot be anxious and creative simultaneously. It's a coping mechanism. It's a coping mechanism.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It's not just that we're like, oh, if we're anxious.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So maybe we create for the same reason we go for a walk or we, in some ways, it's very lucky to have that thing because lots of people have these anxious feelings and depressive feelings and don't have an outlet like that.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I mean, we have a kid who we really didn't know which way it was going to go in terms of their sensitivity and their spinning out and their existential, you know, and they found art and a lot changed. Their beingness changed. because they had an outlet. They had a go-to thing. So there's that. I mean, I do wonder if I write again when I write again, which I will. I don't know.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I just want it to be from a different energy. I do want to be as honest as humanly possible as always, but I don't want it to all be from suffering.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Exactly. Why can't it come from that? That's what I want because I care about what I'm putting out in the world, but also because when you're a person who is writing about suffering, then that's all you're thinking about and that's all you're looking for. And so, of course, that's what magnifies. I always think, what if I just wanted to
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
if I had a project where I was like, I am going to look for and write from joy from that well, I wonder if my entire life would change because that's what I would be looking for. That's what you seek, you find. If I'm a photographer and my book is about suffering, then that's what I'm living in if I'm a photographer and my book is about hummingbirds and flowers.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Anyway, do you know what I'm saying? It's just like, it would be an interesting experiment to try next.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
We can do easy things. Yes. We can do beautiful things. We can do joyful things. Problem solved. Yeah. Thank you, Rachel.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I, in terms of intention and writing and creativity, all of you listening know that I have been on a journey of thinking about social media and what it's for and how it affects artists and how it affects all of our human brains. And I have removed myself personally from social media. We still have a presence there where we put out what we think you'll want to see and what will be important to you.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
But I... don't feel like I can be my most creative, honest self there, or that I even should be, or that that's what it's for. And I don't honestly love the idea of hosting a loving party there anymore. Meaning I don't love the idea of even having you there with me. I just, I want a truer, more beautiful place for us, but I do miss writing to you. I do miss being in touch with you.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I have felt it so much more recently with the fires in LA and wanting our community and wanting to be talking to you. And so anyway, all of this is to say, I am going to ask you if you are interested in hearing from me directly, hearing from Abby directly, hearing from sister directly, hearing what we have to say about our work or about our days to consider
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
giving us your email address, because I think I'm going to start a newsletter that I, and we write directly to you. I don't know how I'm not going to, I don't know how often, but I just know that there are actually, there's a big project going on that I want to tell you about that I know you're going to be excited about.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It's big. It's going to be something that you all are going to want to be a part of and that we've had you in mind for every step of this, which we've been working on something for the last two years. Anyway, give me your email addresses. Okay. You know that I will never... sell your email addresses. Okay. I don't know how to do that if I could, but I will not. And she won't even let me sell them.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
So I will protect your email addresses with my little life. Okay. But I just want to be able to reach you about some things that are important coming up that I don't want you to miss. And then I also just want to be able to
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
pour out my heart somewhere sometimes when in a way that doesn't have a freaking evil algorithm attached to it and isn't jacking up your nervous systems while we all work together to get some peace and agency back in our lives. So Can you tell me, sister, how to tell them to give them my email addresses?
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Without giving away too much, just listen to me, please. When I tell you that there's going to be a time very soon where we're going to send important stuff out on that email. And the thing that we're doing is going to be filled up really fast. And then you're going to be upset and you're going to write to me and say, and I just know this for many, so many times this has happened. Just trust me.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I can't tell you why, but just please sign up, get your email address there, and then you'll find out the information and then you'll be able to make all of your choices before it's too late. Okay. I love you. Thanks for listening. I feel so delighted. And now we go back to our actual life and our actual problems. Thank you for allowing us. We love you. We'll see you next time.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Yes. I think 100% all of that is so clarifying. I feel confused when... Someone says, well, my intent isn't that. That works for me the first time. What I get confused about is if Jesse's partner is making a joke about a particular thing. Let's just use food because you're using that example, but insert whatever your sensitivities are.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And Jesse explains to her husband or her partner that I don't think that's funny. That's hurtful to me. for this reason. And then it continues. To me, the intent argument doesn't work anymore. Right. Right.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Can we stop there? Really? You think we have a dynamic of landing jokes and saying things? That is not at all how I would characterize.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
cool it on any kind of jokesies or teasing or teasing because i don't actually like teasing i don't like it but there's a playfulness to light loving teasing that i don't want to eliminate completely because it feels like part of the healthy-ish carbonation of a relationship so i don't want to squash it completely yeah but i'll say specifically for example
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
90% of the time, jokes about teasing about, you know, me leaving things, getting lost or leaving or whatever, the airhead-y thing of situational.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Forgetting things, whatever. It's okay and light. And then 10% of the time, Abby will just say something that she could have said last Tuesday the same way. And I'm like, enough. Yeah. Right now, stop. That does not feel loving. And so we can't figure out if it means that the 90% isn't okay either.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It reminds me of, you know how the kiddos these days, like the millennials and the Gen Zers, whenever they text something, they will be like, this is an example. Mom, I'm scared. LOL. can you pick up my backpack? LOL. It's like, if anything's too sincere, there has to be an LOL after it. I don't exactly understand, but it's just a disclaimer of maybe this is too vulnerable.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Maybe I don't mean this. It's not funny. Nothing they said was funny. Our producer just texted, I do this, LOL. Like, I don't understand it. Okay, maybe it's their equivalent of Gen X is how we put smiley faces and exclamation points after things.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It's like their disclaimer of sincerity. And I do think that I was just joking can be a disclaimer of sincerity. Like people who don't know how to communicate things like actually, It makes my life harder that you lose things every day. I actually would prefer not to follow you around the house wondering if your coffee is in the dryer. It was one time, just to be clear.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I don't think we need to get specific.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
How did my coffee mug, with coffee in it, end up in the clothes dryer? We will never know. Well, I can't tell you because I don't know if we're in a 10% area. Exactly. Part of my charm. I need a t-shirt that says it's part of my charm. Anyway, the point being, maybe Jessie's partner is trying to communicate something, but just constantly putting LOL after it. Because here's the thing.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
It reminds me of the Forrest Gump, like love is as love does. Just to me, words are communicating something that can be loving, can be hurtful, okay? Just like our bodies can hit each other or hug each other. So if you think of something that words I'm saying can either be a hug or a hit, you don't get to hit somebody in the face. And then when they say, ow, you say, but that was just a joke.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
That was a hug. That was a hug. You misinterpreted it as a hit. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't know how to put it into words, but to constantly say things that are hurtful and then say, you don't get to be sad about that because I'm saying these magic words that are It was just a joke. No, it wasn't. It's not funny. It might be funny to you in your head by yourself.
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
So the next time you want to say that thing, you should go by yourself into a closet and And say it because it's funny to you, but not to the partner you keep sharing it with.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
There's a family conversation going on and it's going away that I don't like how it's going. And I feel like this thing needs to be said. The narrative of this talk needs to get back on track and towards the value that I want everyone to take from this moment. What if I don't say anything? I have been doing these mini experiments. What if I say nothing and just see what happens?
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And by God, if everyone doesn't get to the thing that I would have annoyingly interjected in a controlling way. But watching it unfold in these tiny ways makes me understand there is a net. There is a center. There is a beautiful unfolding that happens in the micro and possibly the macro. So we're having this conversation about what should we do? What should we not do?
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And Abby just looks at me and she goes, you can't fuck with the art. And I said, what? She goes, you can't fuck with the art. And it was a moment like the one in the previous conversation where we were just staring at each other like, wait, that was something. That was something. Let's stop there. Let's hover on this. You can't fuck with the art situation.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Now what Abby meant, the first meaning was, We have to let this artist do what she's going to do. Art is something that is, if it's in a kid, it's just got to play out. You cannot step in and say it's too unrealistic. You can't be the fearful world that you fear that the child will experience. You can't become that for them. Let the whole world say no to them. Let the no not come from their home.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
There was that. You can't fuck with the art being literal. Like we have to let this artist go do their art. But for me, it was so much deeper. It was about life. It was about like not interjecting myself, trusting that life is art and that there isn't some kind of artist that is not me all the time. And that things are unfolding differently
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
We're so good. We have decided, if you listened to the last episode, you know that we have decided to, during this time that is so difficult for so many, in particular, our situation is being an adjacent town to Los Angeles. and dealing with all of the fear and beauty and loss of this time that we're going to hold tight to each other and love and joy.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
based on a system that I can't see and don't understand in a way that if I let go and just watch my family, watch a conversation, wide-eyed watch my career, watch my child step out and do their thing, that there is an art there that I get to see. It's a gift to me. It's like, holy shit, it feels too good to be true.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It's like a gift to myself that I don't have to pretend anymore that everything depends on me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It's a clean, safe way to keep your mouth and body happy. And they have delightful and delicious flavors like Element. And they also offer cool ones like Cocoa Ginger and Lemon Lavender. And they've got kid-friendly flavors like Orange Cream, Watermelon Mint, and New Strawberry Mango.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
For a limited time, Boca is offering listeners 15% off its best-selling toothpastes on Amazon and Boca.com with code GLENNON15. That's GLENNON15. Make the switch to Boca for the whole family. In many parts of the world, it's officially too cold to do anything. And I kind of like that because I can cocoon myself in Bombas socks, slippers, and underwear all winter long.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
The merino wool socks, they feel as cozy as a ski lodge on a winter weekend. But if you're brave enough to hit the slopes or go for a snowy run, Bombas has athletic socks built for that too. What I really love about Bombas, though, is how they've thought of every little detail.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
They've removed itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit so no more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. And here's the very best part about Bombas. Every Bombas purchase helps someone in need. For every item you buy, they donate one to someone facing homelessness.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Plus, if you're not completely happy with your order, Bombas has a 100% happiness guarantee, free exchanges and returns, Yes, please. So try Bombas now. Head over to bombas.com slash hard things and use code hard things for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash hard things. Code hard things at checkout.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And we're going to talk about our recent togetherness time as a family, which was the holidays. And if you haven't listened to the last episode, you really might want to because Abigail, Mary Abigail Wambach shared with us some absolutely beautiful, heart-opening, life-shifting paradigm blowing up in stories. I'm fixed. She's fixed.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Exactly. So. On Christmas morning, I gave Abby her St. Peter's medallion with the back said, relax, I'll handle it. Relax, I'll take care of it.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And Abby laughed and handed me mine. And she had a beautiful signet ring made with a beautiful opal on the front and then engraved in the ring it said... Onyx on the front. Okay. Right. Sorry. Onyx on the front.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Yeah. And then... It said engraved in tiny little letters. You can barely see it. It just says, you can't fuck with the art. And that is my 2025 vibes. And it's like, I know that it's correct for me because it no longer feels punishing. It no longer feels like a correction, like You can't fuck with the art. It's like, you can't fuck with the art. It's like a gift to me.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Guess what I get to do since I can't fuck with the art is I get to make my own art. I get to just be art. I get to not be God.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
So just relax. Because it's their art. It's their art. If we took it literally, each kid has their own easel and I'm behind them going, did you think about more red?
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
My favorite, the only thing that is important about any gift that anyone gives me, my only request is that it's returnable. But I'm getting better about that too because this lack of control.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
This lack of control thing is blowing my mind in every scenario because it's like, I just figured out My new approach to life as it pertains to gifts is a gift, it turns out, is not something that you want and need and makes perfect sense to you that the other person has deduced And so has matched something on the list that you have created of things you want and need and nails it that way.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
That is an important part of the model. Yeah. Yes. The list is invisible. That is true. Not to me. That's a good point. Couldn't be more obvious to me. Okay. Turns out that's not what a gift is. Okay. Now. The problem with that scenario is that when the thing that you receive that is clearly not from the invisible list in your head, then it is incorrect. Insulting even. Yes. Okay. No.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
A gift is something that the other person has felt would be beautiful and additive and lovely for you. It's not something that they tried to figure out necessarily from your head. It's something that came from their heart and head. So when you say, thank you so much. And then the following Tuesday you return it. That is a bit of a rejection of their heart offering. So anyway, it's just a journey.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Are we sure? No, no, I'm not sure. I still believe in returning, but I do think that there's space to consider returning. This other way.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I just love jewelry. I just do. I just love things. That are sparkly.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
What about you, Sissy? What are you thinking about from this? past holiday?
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
If you want to hear the story that fixed Abby, it's in the last episode. Today, we're going to talk about, well, first I want to tell you about the gift Abby gave me for Christmas, which the first thing that's interesting about it is we both kind of did the exact same thing without knowing, which is we had little pieces of jewelry made for each other with meaning inscribed in them.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Which was a cool coincidence. By the same jeweler. Yeah, by our friend Thea at Drew. This is not an ad. We just love her. So Abby's piece of jewelry was about her brother, Peter, which you can hear in the last episode. But what I opened on Christmas morning...
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It really gives you a different idea of what those times are for. Because we can be like, oh, what is a vacation for? It's for seeing cool things or this experience or that experience or this experience or that outward experience. But it's like actually just an opportunity to see each other. It doesn't really matter what you're doing. It's like the seventh day.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Like every day you're creating these universes for your kids. And that time is the seventh day where you get to look at each other and say, oh, it's good. It's good. And how cool to think that the kids might be having that experience with you and John. That the whole rest of their lives, our kids see us swirling and whirling and working and worrying and whatever.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And what's cool about this is that Abby's jewelry had a meaning that was really based on the journey she's been on over the last two years, which was grief for loss of her brother and religious trauma, healing religious trauma, which you all beautiful listeners have walked her through and kind of listened to unfold. And my piece of jewelry was also kind of a summation of
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And what if they're in their little beds going, oh, it's good to see mom's all right. Did you see her? She's funny. Did you see that dance she did? Did you see like how dad was like relaxing with mom? Did you see how, I'm glad I got to actually see them for who they are as people and not just their roles. They could be having the exact same experience.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Experience with different language in their little heads, of course.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right to therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference that's why i think alma is so cool alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience you can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else. And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard. You know, I love that. That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com slash hard things to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's helloalma.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I've been on the last two years, which I guess manifested as an anorexia diagnosis and then turned into a process during which I examined all of the programming that I had inside of me, like you did, Abby, and sort of led me to let go of some ideas about control and being a protection, which is kind of what I did in every arena in my life. Like if I just control my appetite, I'll be safe.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
He is so cool. Which one of our kids the other day said the best thing about Christmas is the resurgence of the cousin group chat? I mean, Bobby on the cousin group chat is just... He abuses the privilege.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
So good. Bobby's the connector. It makes me sad that we all have these necessary selves that we only get to show each other our relaxed, joyful selves two weeks a year. It just sucks. I'm not saying that I know a better system, but it does make me think of, you know, the religion, like the Judaism that has the Sabbath.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It would be beautiful family ritual to carve out, to not wait for one week a year where we get to be our real selves, like to carve out times. more frequently where we get to be our relaxed, connected selves.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It's also like a shout out to simpler vacations because you can really just recreate your family trauma with a vacation. If it's all like, then we have to do this and then we have to do this and then we have to be there. And then you're just like bringing your hustle self to the thing. So like, if this is your goal, the seeing each other and the being in the moment, then less might be more.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
You don't have time to settle into a system or the same ecosystem. You don't have enough time to do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And you're not in fight or flight with your parents because you're not staring at them. Yeah. Dinner tables and couches when you're making eye contact, all the kids just freeze, which is hilarious that we have all of our like family meetings in that structure because no one can talk. We should sit in a circle facing out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Exactly. Or like we just do it through our dogs. Honey, do you think that Abby's upset? Like if you were, yeah, we just talked through all of our feelings. Would you feel unappreciated, honey, if no one ever? All right. I love you both.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
You can't fuck with the art. Can you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
We can do hard things. See you soon. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
If I just control my environment, I'll be safe. If I just control the people around me, I'll be safe. If just this absolute death grip, a white knuckle grip that I had on every aspect of my life, because I thought that that white knuckling was what was keeping all the planets spinning. So Abby and I had this moment A few months ago.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And this moment came on the heels of years, the last two years of really heart-wrenching discussions about new ways to live that weren't based on fear and control. And for me, I would say my final frontiers in terms of the death grip was food and my kids. Okay, like, fine, I will trust your idea that there is a center that will hold I will trust your idea that I am not controlling at all.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
The center. Right. That I am not the center. I will trust that my anxiety isn't actually what's keeping everyone safe. In fact, it's really upsetting everyone in every arena. But like when it comes to the kids, I am still the center. That's been hard for me to let go of.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
So we were in this deep conversation about one of our kids who is an artist and the decisions that they were making that felt so brave and so scary to me and feeling like I had to be somebody who held the line on the plan B. Not the abortion pill. I mean like.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I mean, we have plenty of that also, but I mean like.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And to my credit, I have not had any of these conversations in front of the child. That's amazing. These are conversations that Abby and I have and then figure out like, how do we say it? And this particular conversation, I was trying to decide whether to step in and insist upon a plan B of some sort.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And had I done that, I think we both knew that every parent's just trying to walk the balance of knowing that particular kid and what that will suggest into that kid's ecosystem. this particular kid looks to us for a lot of, their eyes are wide when they look at us and it is clear that they are taking in what we believe about them. Yeah. That is the vibe. I know it in my gut.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I don't know if it's right or wrong. I don't know if it's because I've made myself too big of an entity. I have no idea. All I know is that is the truth right now. So I think that I knew in my gut that, I had this voice saying, okay, so a responsible parent right now would say this, put this into play, make sure this other track is running.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I also had this other side of myself that was like, if I say that, this kid is going to translate it to mean I don't believe that they are worthy or capable of making the other track work.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Like if I put this net beneath them, While they trapeze in the air, I will feel better, but I think they might fall. Like, I think the fact of me just putting that net under there won't get in their head enough to make them fall when they wouldn't. But is that a control thing too? Like you still think. I don't know. Anyway, the point is, all I'm saying is welcome to the, my mind. Okay. Okay. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I also want to say, sometimes I feel like I joke about myself too much. Like I actually believe that all the things I just said are real. It sounds like I'm double thinking and I'm double. I actually truly believe that I was right about that, that thought.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Because if I Now, this is different. If you're a pod squatter and your child is five, this child is an adult, okay? A fresh adult, a baby adult, but an adult. My question to myself was, if I do something here, I am interjecting myself as the center that will hold. I am once again providing a net. The question is, is there already a net that is not me?
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And if I interject myself as net, is that once again saying to my children, I've got you, I've got you, don't worry, I've got you, which feels like a correct vibe of parenting early. And there's this moment when the I've got you becomes poison because I've got you means you don't got you. I've got you means the universe doesn't got you. There's a vibe of I am here. Mm-hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
If out there you ever perceive that the center is not holding, come back. I'll be your temporary center anytime you need it. But I'm not going to follow you around being the net that is artificial. I had this thought the other day. This is morose, but we've been through some death in our family recently. Our Aunt Peggy died and we'll talk about that in another episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
But I have been part of moments now where you're surrounding a bed and your person is dying. And so I've had these visions recently of like, when my kids are surrounding my deathbed, I don't want their thought to be, she was the best mom in the world. She handled everything. She was our center. She was the one who looked out for us. It's time for a different vibe, which is like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
She taught us that we are our center. We've got us. That was her version of the last 20 years of mothering was passing on that center to each of them. So when all of this sounds overthought, it is, but it's whatever. That's my job.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
The ingredients are still changing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Well, yeah. And it's like that bigger question that we talked about in the last episode. Like for me, if you're looking too close at parenting and you're like, do I do this or do I do this? Do I do this? What will make me a better mother? What will make them safer? What will make them better? What would a good mother do?
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And then it's like, actually, if we take out all of those paradigms and words and you're thinking, I am a bit of a guide and in a split second, I'm going to be leaving this person. One thing is for sure that if the universe unfolds as it should and the parent goes first, which doesn't always happen, this person will be left without me. And so making myself their net is not the best play here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
It's not the kindest, wisest, most generous thing I could do for this person. So how do I stand back enough, deal with my own anxiety, my own anxiety,
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
mistaken beliefs about worthiness and importance in this person's life and get rid of my ideas about what a good mom would do and say like what would a wise guide do what would a wise loving guide do so that i am not this person's only lifeline because then what right So then there's all that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And then there's the other part that you learn when you start doing the kind of particular work that I've been doing over the last two years about relinquishing control is that you realize how many times you have changed the outcome of something that might have been more beautiful had you not interjected yourself in a particular way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And so that's what I mean in this particular situation where I thought, oh God, if I rush in and say anything here, I could change the ingredients of what needs to happen because what this kid is doing is really bold and brave and self-directed. And I think it took me, it took enough experiments, and I'm talking small experiments, like
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Okay, so something cool has been happening in my life that I have been doing, which Abby knows because she's been watching. I have, for the first time in five years, been setting my little alarm at night to get up very early and write. I have been writing again. And it has been a treat for me. Okay? Me too. And then here's what I've been doing with my writing each day.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Anyway, I just decided I wanted, if I was going to do a newsletter, I wanted it to be different. I want it to just be a little treat, like a little treat for me to write, a little treat for whoever's opening it to like, Give them a little joy for the day. So it's called A Little Treat. I'm loving it. I just sent my first one out last week. I think people are really liking it.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And obviously, if you want to register for the newsletter, you have to give me your email address. Obviously, I will never do anything shady with your email addresses, okay? I wouldn't know how, but even if I could, I would never. I will protect your email addresses with my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
If you want my little treat newsletter, which will not be a list of my accomplishments, it will just be a helpful little story. Go to glennandoyle.com. You'll see a signup box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address and that's it. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So as part of perceiving that you have enough time, the approach to that, trying to start perceiving that you have enough time, similar to trying to start perceiving that you have enough money in that if you don't know what you're setting out to do, you will never have enough. Because if you don't know, you're not being intentional about actually these are my priorities and how I spend my time.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And so if I'm doing those things, I'm okay. Is it about intentionality? Let me give you an example. I was driving, I was stuck in traffic on the way to a soccer tournament while I was listening to one of your podcasts, Abby and I were.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And you mentioned this exercise you do with people, which is asking them the five whys of the thing that they're doing in the moment, which to me speaks to getting to intention. So I was sitting in horrible traffic. We were in like two hours of traffic and I was not upset.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
No, I mean, I was upset, but I wasn't my usual level. Okay. Right. Right. To me, I was peaceful. Okay. So I was thinking about that. Why am I not upset? Because I am on my way to support my kid. And I'm with my wife. So this is the thing that I value the most. And I'm doing it right now. Then I was thinking back to two recent times when I was in traffic on the way to a work event.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And then if you're on Instagram, you can go to my page, click the link in bio, and you'll see sign up for newsletter as the second button. click that button and submit your email address. And then you'll get the little treat in your inbox. Yeah, exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I became diabolical. I was so furious and upset. Okay. rewind to several years ago when I would be in traffic on a way to a work event and I would be a little frustrated, but not diabolical. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
The reason why, and I thought this through for the rest of the car ride as I was listening to your podcast, is that when I was in the car on the way to a work event several years ago, I was doing it because I was supporting my family. Because I knew that me going to that thing was going to bring us enough money. It was a version of love for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Now, when I was in that recent car, I was furious going to work because that's bullshit for me now. I have enough money. So I actually was going to that job for a different reason. Like I couldn't identify the why underneath the activity. And that is what made me furious. It's not the thing you're doing, right? It's not the event.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
If you're playing tennis because it brings you joy, then that is going to be the antithesis of time poverty. If you're playing tennis for some other reason to keep up with the Joneses or whatever, it's going to add to your time poverty. So How do we get to the story beneath and talk to us about the five whys? Because actually not how we're spending time that matters, is it?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It's the why we're spending that time that matters.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Cassie, so this doesn't feel too lofty or esoteric. Can you do this exercise with us? Yes. Instead of just describing it, can you run us through one of them? Like Amanda, would you be willing to? Sure. Experiment with this?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Because the story is wrong there sometimes. I have done that too where I've been in those rooms and I feel like, okay, we all came here because somebody told us that we're here to support our kids. And then you make it halfway through a meeting and you think, wait a minute. I feel like this is not even anymore about the kids. And some of us are just trying to prove we're like alphas.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I know. And by the way, it's a little treat because I was talking to Lizzie Gilbert about this two days ago because she was so excited that I was writing again. And I said, I forgot that the reason I haven't, one of the reasons I haven't been writing is because I always think I have to write a book and it's so long and big. And I don't know things that are long.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Some of us are, we're actually working out social stuff or we're actually working out our fucking childhood wounds in this cafeteria. But Glennon, people are doing that with coaching too. It isn't the vehicle. It's the motivation. Right. But that's why you have to figure it out for you. That's why I was like, oh, I want to help my kid, but I'm going directly to the classroom. I will cut shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I'll cut out snowflakes with you, but I will not. By cut shit, she means literally cut things.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I don't know things for a long time, okay? I don't know how to explain that, except I only know things shortly. But then I'm clear. I'm like, wow, I know that thing. And I write it down and then... it's over and I forget it and it's not connected to anything else. So that's why this newsletter is so good for me. It's a little bit of wisdom, a short wisdom, and I can let go of knowing things long.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It makes me feel like your work is so hopeful because even the idea of purpose is so hijacked. When people say, Well, I have to do something according to my purpose. Everyone thinks... purpose is something that comes to me from the outside. Like my purpose has to be world peace or whatever insert, you know, altruistic situation.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
But what I hear you saying when you say we need to be in our purpose is that it's an internal thing that living in purpose is just living on the outside in alignment to what is important to you on the inside. What is important to you, not important to your community or your school or your world even, but Can we look at the things we're doing and ask the whys for the negatives too, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Like if we're feeling ragey about something that we're going, we feel like we're not in alignment. Do the whys help with that to get to, if I'm feeling empty and frustrated, do you have experiments with that where we can get to the why we feel frustrated because we're out of alignment?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Also, there's no news in the newsletter. It's a no newsletter. I just don't know what else to call it.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I don't want to hear that one. That one's too much for me, but just based on what you just said. But I love the eulogy one because I'm constantly thinking about we all want to avoid deathbed regret. And truly the only way we can do that is to avoid bedtime regret, right? It's like looking at your life as Annie Dillard said, how we spend our days is inevitably how we spend our lives.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So figuring out what your big whys are by writing your eulogy and then aligning your daily time with what your big whys are means you go to bed knowing that you spent your day in a line with your whys, which means by the end of your life, you will know that you spent your life aligned with the whys.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And I just wanted to say one more thing about what you were talking about with distraction, which is that I think about this all the time because I go to a 12-step meeting every morning and there's something magical that happens to me in those, which I don't know what it is and I'm not worried about it. I just know that it's good for me for the day.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Except that every once in a while, Cassie, I log on and then I online shop for the whole meeting. Okay. I am on there. I look at my face every once in a while. I appear to be present and that's what matters. And then I online shop. And you'll be shocked to know that those days don't go as well for me. Okay. So I've got really cute shoes. Great shoes. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
So I've started to think of it as like, okay, we can know that if we go to the lake and we jump in the water, that we are going to feel better the rest of the day.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
We don't know why, but we know that that water, but when we go to these things and we don't have our mind and hearts there, it's like we've driven to the lake, but we're just going to stand there on the shore and then leave and then wonder why the experience didn't wash over us and change us the way it usually did, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
When you are going to the lake because it feeds you, you have to get wet, right? or it will not take effect. So is it because it's connection that heals us? Is it because when we're not there mentally, we're not getting the connection that is the jumping in the lake?
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I've been doing the same thing that I did during my early blogging days where I avoided perfectionism by saying, I'm just going to write for an hour and a half or an hour and then I'm going to scent. Press scent. And that kept me from perfectionism, which is why all the rest of my career unfolded. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Beautiful, Cassie. Okay. I don't think it's bullshit. Thank you so much. You win, Cassie. Thank you so much. You're wonderful. You're absolutely wonderful.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
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One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
What I've been doing with these little writings is I've been sending them in a newsletter to all the love bugs who are registered for my newsletter. Okay. I don't know what the hell is going to happen. All I know is it's great fun so far. It reminds me of my early writing days. It's just us. It's just me writing. I avoided newsletters for so long because I don't like newsletters.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Before we move on to you getting into this deeper, I just want to make sure the pod squad understands that what Cassie is saying, I think, is that time is sort of like money in that we think the answer that will make us happier is just to have a ton more of it. But all the studies actually show that it's a bell curve, that it is true that money buys happiness. Up to a point.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And then you get to the top of the bell curve. And then after that, the more you make, the less happy you are. So is that true with time also? That the more you're saying that there is a sweet spot, but the answer is not just endless amounts of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
I always feel like when I get one that feels overwhelming, it feels like it's mostly just like a report of everything the person has been accomplishing in the world, which feels like, why is this for me? This feels like it's for you. Like, should I write back and say, congratulations? Like, I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media. It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com slash hard things to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's helloalma.com slash hard things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
So what do we know, you two, tell us if you can, we do know the path. One of the reasons this is so terrifying is because we know the stages we're in. We know what comes next in some ways based on history. We all feel like what's next? What do we do? Based on history, what do we do?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
What do people who are in our positions and lanes and the resistance, the whatever you want to call it, what's next that has ever helped?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
hey, everybody, we're getting through, aren't we? That's what we're doing. One foot in front of the other, 2025 is looking like it might be a real doozy. And we are in it with you and we're here for you and with you. Recently, our show was selected by Apple as one of their 10 shows we love. And they called it a comforting support system for braving the everyday. And that is what we hope.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
We hope that we can help you brave the everyday. That's what you help us do. And so on Sundays, we are publishing an episode for you, one of our favorite episodes of the past four years that we've selected to be a comforting support system for all of us as we brave this new year.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
This podcast is brought to you by Kleenex lotion tissues. You can't predict sick days, but with Kleenex lotion tissues, you can be better prepared for them while helping keep your skin healthy. Whether it's a surprise sneeze or a stuffy nose, it's always good to have something gentle on hand.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Kleenex lotion tissues moisturize to help prevent skin irritation while you're battling those unwanted cold and flu symptoms. It's extra care when you need it most. With lotion built into every tissue, Kleenex lotion tissues helps keep your skin moisturized and healthy with every wipe. And for those cold winter days, keep relief within reach.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Grab Kleenex lotion tissues to help avoid the added discomfort of irritated skin during the cold and flu season. I mean, why not have one less thing to worry about when you're not feeling your best? We all know life is unpredictable, but if you can be prepared for that time of year when germs are going around by making sure you've always got Kleenex lotion tissues at the ready.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. One of my favorite parts about the holiday this year was our recent stay when we went to go visit Glenn and Abby's family. in LA, but we stayed in our own Airbnb a few blocks away.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
It was the best of both worlds because look, you've got your privacy, you've got your own refrigerator, you've got your own beds, multiple beds, by the way, and your own bathroom. And you know what? Then you can have your own bedtimes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
It was just so nice to wake up in our own cozy place and have our own family time and then rejoin the larger family for the Christmas festivities and then retreat when everyone needed a little breather. So here's the deal. Whether you're traveling with family or friends, those extra rooms, the fully stocked kitchen, not only saves you a bunch of money, but it also makes a huge difference in
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
If you're flying solo, you can make your stay your own little sanctuary. If you're planning a winter getaway this year, I highly recommend giving Airbnb a try. Trust me, it's an experience you won't regret.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
We were at a queer music festival this weekend, and there were 6,000 people. defiant, terrified, what are we going to do people? And so we've been having those conversations as we have.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
So in addition to our new Tuesday, Thursday episodes and the ones that we're posting on Wednesday as well, please come on Sunday for some togetherness, some support, some soothing Sunday togetherness for 2025. Thank you. We will see you there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
But you used to also keep the winner's pictures on your wall because that's what pissed you off enough. Yeah. Because she used to put the winner's pictures above the locker room thing because that's the only thing that... Guess what happens?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Brittany Cooper is professor of gender studies and Africana studies at Rutgers University and is the author of the New York Times bestseller, Eloquent Rage.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Actually, you wear them to work out and you wear them out to dinner. That is true.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Rebecca Traister is writer at large for New York Magazine and the author of New York Times bestsellers, All the Single Ladies and Good and Mad, as well as the award-winning Big Girls Don't Cry about gender, race, and class in the 2008 elections. Brittany and Rebecca are two of the voices we trust most in the world, and we are so grateful. to welcome them today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Okay, PodSquad, it is the day after the inauguration, and we are here with the only two people we can imagine being here with today. Our hope, well, I'll tell you, it's Brittany Cooper and Rebecca Traister. I should tell you that, so you can relax a little bit. We're in good hands.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
It's the bringing back the death penalty yesterday. It's mandating the death penalty against immigrants who have commit crimes. It is deportation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
So what we thought we'd ask you today, both of you is how did you experience yesterday? What can you not stop thinking about? And then what, what is next?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
And you wear them under suits and you wear them to bed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Yep. In many parts of the world, it's officially too cold to do anything. And I kind of like that because I can cocoon myself in Bombas socks, slippers, and underwear all winter long. The merino wool socks, they feel as cozy as a ski lodge on a winter weekend. But if you're brave enough to hit the slopes or go for a snowy run, Bombas has athletic socks built for that too.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
What I really love about Bombas, though, is how they've thought of every little detail. They've removed itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit so no more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. And here's the very best part about Bombas. Every Bombas purchase helps someone in need. For every item you buy, they donate one to someone facing homelessness.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Plus, if you're not completely happy with your order, Bombas has a 100% happiness guarantee, free exchanges and returns, Yes, please. So try Bombas now. Head over to bombas.com slash hard things and use code hard things for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash hard things. Code hard things at checkout.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Everything you're saying is not only are they... terrified now and therefore have to squash any resistance because it's there. They only exist. They only exist because they're terror of the will of the people. The same reason that Jim Crow only existed because of the threat of liberty of people who are not enslaved anymore. That only exists in opposition to the power of
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
that could be asserted by the people to whom it belongs, right? And so that, for me, I'm wondering if this moment of pause is for us all to take a fucking breath. and go backward instead of trying to just drowned in the whirlpool of whatever the future is. Like we need to know our history.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
We need to know the way that this has happened time and time and time again, because for many of us, and I am speaking to white women who are new to the fray, we think that this is the first time this has ever fucking happened. We think that this is the first time that anyone has had fewer rights than they had before. We literally call it unprecedented times every day. And that is important.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
This is why they're banning books. This is why critical race theory doesn't exist in places. It is because if we knew that this is not shocking, this is not unprecedented, this is not a big, scary man doing a new thing. This is the way of the fucking world. is that the people come, the tyrants come in, they're threatened by progress. They clamp down on it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
The people band together, they hold on, they link arms and they keep walking forward. If we knew that, if we looked at the lessons of the past of the strong black women, of the civil rights leaders, of the Fannie Lou Hamers, of the Reverend King, like we would see that we think we're disappointed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Mm-hmm. Is there anything else that you want to leave us with before we stop and you go on to your next important moment?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
I love that. It's like busting out of the, I feel so directionally frozen at the moment. I feel, I don't know how to describe it other than that. Like my brain's not connecting everything, like you said, Rebecca. But when we were at the festival this weekend with all of these scared people, I had this directional desire to just turn back and like protect and embrace everything.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
which feels a little bit dangerous to me. It feels like a little too maternal, a little too like the version of like activist trad wife, like wrong. I want that, but I actually have to straighten my spine and keep leading though. Like, but you're also presenting an idea of sometimes maybe in this moment, neither backwards nor forwards, but outwards. getting out of the directional binary.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
A community is not backwards nor forwards. It's this other direction. Rebecca, please go.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Well, there are people that when I feel frozen and uncertain and afraid that even just the remembering of their existence out there helps me to straighten my spine. And you too are two of those people. And so I know that I speak for thousands and thousands of us when I just say, thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Pod squad. We can do hard things and we will see you next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life changing difference. That's why I think Alma is so cool. Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Brittany, thank you for that. Rebecca, what are the things that you are floating in your head that aren't landing today? and are contradictory to each other. When you said that I thought of what I thought of in the shower today, that I feel like my brain is a snow globe of like fragments of things that are broken. And I have absolutely no idea how they're going to fall into place.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
So what are, what are you thinking about?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships or anything else. And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard. You know, I love that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Yeah. Yeah. Sissy, how are you? What are you thinking this morning?
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
I'm nervous that it's so upsetting and it's so frustrating and it feels like you're powerless to do anything about it. And like you said, you just have to let it unfold for this period and that there is going to be... in the kind of mealy middle of us, the people who are like, I care about what's right. I care about politics. I care that there is just going to be a...
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
withdraw a wrap yourself up and don't look at it because it's so upsetting. Like when you're in that confirmation, you see like the normalization of insanity and nothing that should be okay. That we've just let things become okay over and over and over. And now things are okay. That if you would have dropped us into insanity,
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
10 years ago, we would have been like, what the fuck are you talking about? And now we don't bat an eye at it. And it's very offensive to our souls. And so I don't, I understand the not looking at it. And I understand the not wasting all of your energy being in reaction all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Like there was one way of doing the first Trump administration where we just exhausted the fuck out of ourself for every action and equal and opposite reaction. for every rage. Like we were sitting at the circus and we were paying for a seat and we can't do that. That is not a good use of energy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
And then there's this other way of just being like, I have to protect myself from this madness that I am afraid of what the future looks like
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
If we do that on a massive scale, those of us who can afford to look at it, who have enough emotional resources, who have enough financial resources, who can put some skin in the game, if we take all of our skin out, just reading the tea leaves of what this is, like there is a path that we are on that we have to divert off that path or that is where the path is going.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Today is the day, pod squad, that I have been waiting for lo so many, lo so many years. I know. Years. Because one of my favorite humans is here. Yes. And I don't even think she knows that she's one of my favorite humans. It might get a little embarrassing for you, Justina. Okay. First, I'm going to read your bio. That's what's happening now. And then I'll tell you the things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
I've listened to you a lot talk about a time in your life when you were ignoring all the messages. We're in a collective midlife crisis. So a lot of the things we've been talking about are how our lives and our bodies are always speaking to us about what we want and we need. And then Because of a lot of things, we ignore that. And then we wonder why we're fucked.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
So talk to us about how meditation brought you back in touch with yourself and what that looks like now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
What I want for everyone listening is just to be more of who they are. And so what I try to remind myself when I'm around you is not that I need to be more like Justina, but that I need to be more me. But I don't know if you remember this. We sat in a room together at like a really cool thing we do with a bunch of other women.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
It's so interesting because it's like, we know if there's a person in our life that we want to get to know better, that we want to hear from, we have to spend quiet time with that person, right? If I want to get to know you better, I can't be like, all right, so you talk and I'm just going to like be on my phone and then I'm going to go on it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
We're going to take a trip and we're going to do some errands and we're going to whatever. Like we know that knowing someone is about sitting with them and listening and giving our full attention. And so it of course makes sense that in order to do that with ourselves, it would take that. It would take a stillness and a full presence to be able to listen and know ourselves better.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And we're supposed to go around at the end and all say what our brave goal is for the future. after this get together and everybody was saying things like for their companies or whatever. And I said, my goal is that I'm going to call Justina and ask her to be friends with me. I, of course, did not do that. But here we are.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Life force is what, when I think of you, I think of vitality. I think of life force. I think that, I don't know how to explain any of this, but I'm going to try. I think that through this last year of recovery for myself, I have learned that much of my anorexia, control, rigidity, was about suppressing life force. Like you can see it. You can see, why am I so attracted to Jungalo?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
I look at your writing, your clothes, your Instagram account, and I'm like, what? And it's real. It's like, there's something about white lady culture that I was raised in and like lived in that is about rigidity and- no color and no, it's about control. I mean, my mom has looked at my closet and been like, we call it jail colors.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
It's just 30 different shades of things that you'd be given in jail. Okay. So you're painting now, you know, I love your painting. Interestingly enough, I was recently listening to an interview with you years ago and you said, I do home design. But lately, when I go to museums and look at art, I feel tingly. So tell us about that. So you felt the tingly. Is the tingly the life force?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Is that what you're going towards? And is following the tingly how you do all of your next creative decisions? Because you're oozing creativity.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
What's tingling now? I want to know what's the next tingly thing. And then also the home design business is unbelievable. And then you're like, no, now I want to also paint. How do you keep, because your painting is incredible and there's like shows now and it's everywhere. How do you keep that Something to me about the Tingly is that it's intrinsically motivated.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And like for me, the second things start to be judged from the outside, I can't maintain it. Like I can't, one of the lucks, it's a very lucky to me. And I'm not even saying this as a joke. I seriously believe it, that no one likes my paintings. I'm not saying that, like it's true. It's not good, but that helps me because I love it. I actually love them and I love doing it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And I'm at no risk of it becoming so successful that it loses its magic. How do you maintain the intrinsic motivation when now people are looking at it and consuming it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Can you balance creativity and discipline? I think sometimes when you see people who are wildly creative, you just think of them as just, you know, throwing it all to the wind all the time and living in the moment. But here you are doing all of that and running a business. You started blogging. I did too. We started like doing whatever the hell it is we're doing at a similar time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And we both did it in the same way. We were both bloggers.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And I heard you say that you started and had a rule for yourself that you were going to do it five days a week where you had a certain amount. I started the same way and had one rule for myself. That was that I was going to write for an hour in the morning and then press post no matter what.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And it was my way of beating my own self-doubt and not letting perfectionism keep me from expressing myself because I knew it would.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
I knew I would screw myself because I would look it over and think it sucked and not do it. And so how does discipline play a role in your life now? And how do you avoid becoming too rigid or too wild?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And then you'll know, you'll know if you're craving it. Because you'll be in touch with your body enough to feel the craving of that thing. So then you'll be able to create that in the moment as opposed to living from some outward discipline or outward set of guidelines or rules for your day, right? Like you can tap in. And what kind of rituals do you keep?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
tell the pod squad, how do you like to talk about yourself? Like, how do you introduce yourself? Who are you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
You describe it as like music for your eyes around your house. Like it's like you have music on in the house and that makes you feel a certain way. And what your eyes fall on makes you feel a certain way. And the importance of beauty and how personal that is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
What are you struggling with lately? What do you wrestle with these days? What are you working on?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
God, I relate to that. It's like, it's different energy, man. It's like, give me a challenge. All right. You tell me I'm fucked. You tell me I'm anorexic. You tell me I've got trauma. I'm on the journey. I recently said to my therapist, all right, what am I going to work on now? And she said, I don't think you should work on anything else. Just relax.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to get another fucking therapist. And what do you mean? What do you mean? So now I'm just supposed to maintain being a healthy human being. What does that mean? Maintenance energy is very different than challenge energy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Yeah, yeah. I'll work on that. You can work on that too. Because you like the word. If it makes you feel any better.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
What gives you the tingle now? And like, what dreams do you have still lingering? Like, do you still have manifestations of yourself that you can imagine but haven't happened? What do you still envision?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
It feels good to be in the presence of it, whether it's through your art or through your brand or through your being in a room. It feels really good. Thank you so much. It feels really good. So I have a lot of things I want to talk to you about. The first one is belonging, okay? Because I was talking to my kid recently and they were asking me, Your little one's, I think, 13, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Nope. He's a developmental psychologist. This woman was raised by two psychologists. That's why she likes herself and her voice is so nice. God damn it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
We have a kid who's a singer. We have a kid who's a singer. And in her high school, she started a club called Chords and Conversations. Ah! And they just sing and talk about albums and music.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
We love you pod squad. Go check out Justina. You probably already know her, but if you haven't just trust me, she just makes you come to life a little more. We love you. We'll see you next time. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Almost 12. Okay. So they get to this point, Justina, where they start asking you questions about your decisions you've made. And it's a really good time. And one of my kids asked me about why we moved so much. This is like, we moved like 13 times in their childhood. It was one of those things where I kept thinking, I'm just like one move away to finding belonging.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
spotify odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow this is the most important thing for the pod while you're there if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend we would be so grateful we appreciate you very much
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Justina Blakeney is a multidisciplinary artist, designer, and New York Times bestselling author and She is the founder and chief creative officer of the home decor brand Jungalo. So good. If all of my hopes and dreams and untamedness came together in one brand, it's Jungalo. And the author of several design books, including Jungalo Decorate Wild and the New Bohemians book series.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Like I know I'm going to find it and I'm going to feel comfortable in my own skin and feel connected and And it just never happened. I've heard you talk about belonging when you were little, feeling like you didn't fit in anywhere simply.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
But you said something that blew my mind in an interview once you said, the message from your parents, though, even though you didn't fit in, was that that meant you could be anything, anywhere.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Can you talk to us about the role that belonging has played, like this desire, feeling like maybe you don't fit in anywhere easily? Does that where the desire to be known comes from? Like, how does this all play out in your life and where do you belong?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
It's so interesting because it was one of my kids I was talking to about this. And it's like this feeling that a lot of us have that I don't belong anywhere ends up offering us this freedom to belong everywhere. Because I wonder if you feel belonging right away because you fit in somewhere, then isn't that in itself kind of a default inclusivity or exclusivity?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
That must feel really good to feel like you have a belonging in one group. But doesn't that necessarily mean that you don't belong anywhere else? It reminds me of the Maya Angelou quote that I sent to my kid after this conversation, where she said, you are only free when you realize you belong no place. You belong every place, no place at all. The price is high. The reward is great.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And more and more, I belong to myself. I'm very proud of that. I am very concerned about how I look at Maya. I like Maya very much. It reminds me of you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Justina lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Jason, their kiddo, Ida. her kitties, Juju and Nova, and 52 houseplants because- Wow. Of course. All right. So real quick, Justina, I just, since I first met you, I think we've only been in rooms together a few times. I just, I feel like you are someone to me that feels like you live very close to your wild, like meaning-
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
You know? Yeah. And it presupposes importance. That's what I love about it. You can self-love and all that. The feeling is different. It's like you, you have a realm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Every single person that is listening, you have a realm. You have people in your home. You have people outside of your home. You have people you're going to walk by on the street today. You have people in your office and every bit of your energy affects everybody. Your, your realm. So like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
When Justine is talking about honoring herself and her decisions for the good of the realm, it reminds me of the way that you'd treat like a queen, like a bunch of people. We got to keep her together because every decision she makes affects the realm. It's important. Your life is important.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Not wild like I think what sometimes people think of that as like necessarily loud or no, just I mean wild like your truest self. You seem like a human being who lives very from the inside out and not from the outside in. I can feel it in how you create and how you speak and how you dress and how you parent. And you're always that person.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Riley says that in the book, that like your mom didn't even learn the word trauma. It wasn't talked about, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Make the switch to non-toxic Boca for the whole family. It's interesting because you say that there was an experience of unconditional love with like a lot of craziness around, right? Like at Graceland growing up, that it was maybe low structure, high unconditional love. And the reading experience of then seeing or watching or reading your mom then move to her mother somehow changed.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
I was reading it as the opposite. Yeah. I don't know if that's true, but it felt like suddenly there's a lot of rigidity and not a lot of love. What was that experience? How do you understand that now? Your mom going to
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Hi everybody. Oh my goodness, the conversation today. Just, I don't know, wherever you are, just like take a deep breath. And if you don't have a hot cup of tea, just you're about to feel like you do. We are sharing with you a conversation that we had with Riley Keough. And if you don't know who Riley Keough is, she is, well, she's an actor. She is a
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Mm hmm. It's just so easy to see other people's generational trauma from the outside. You know, it's interesting to be the daughter of someone who had to, by circumstance, be and look perfect and keep all of the plates in the air and then be a human being who literally is wearing the truth on her face all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
When she says over and over again in the book, why does everyone tell me I look sad? She just is like a living embodiment of the truth. I'm sure it scared the shit out of Priscilla.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
It's interesting that you said that you're not like that because as I was reading your book, I was thinking about all the people that I talked to who are trying to figure out like how I'm the black sheep in my family. And it feels like you're the opposite. I wonder what it is like to be in a family where they think of themselves as pirates over and over again in your book.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
deeply feeling, thinking, spiritual person who is so lovely to listen to and learn from. She is also the granddaughter of Elvis Presley. She's the daughter of Lisa Marie Presley. And she released a book called From Here to the Great Unknown. And Potswad, what I need you to know about this book before we get into the interview is
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
They're a group of pirates. First of all, I want to know what does it mean to be a pirate? And then what is it like to be the only un-pirate in a family of pirates?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
is that her mother, Lisa Marie, before she died, she was preparing to write a book, a memoir. And the way she was doing that was she was recording herself. Like imagine long voice memos where she's just telling her own story to herself, okay? She felt like she couldn't pull the memoir together, so she asked her daughter Riley to help her with it. Riley said, yes, I'll help you with this.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
intense and I guess like critical moment that's all I've got that's good stuff did you get there through the experience of losing your brother because to me I read your mom say the only thing I ever knew was that I was loved by my father and it definitely felt to me like the other thing she knew for sure was that she loved you guys yes definitely that there were two knowings yeah
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
And loved you well. I'm not perfectly, but people are often asking me, can I give what I haven't gotten? Is it possible? People freaking out about becoming mothers because I didn't get it from my mom. Is it possible? It feels like she pulled that miracle off in a beautiful way. She really did.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
And then Lisa Marie died. So I want you to imagine Riley then recommitting after her mother's death to finishing her mother's story and listening, sitting and listening to her mother's voice memos and listening to her mom tell her own story, all the pain, all the loss, all the trauma, all the beauty. So that's what Riley did. She sat and listened to these voice memos from her mother.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Soon after that loss, how would you describe what happened to your mom with addiction?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
And then she filled in the blanks, literally. She wrote, the book is made up of Lisa Marie's words and then Riley's words. It is the most beautiful illustration of the way that every single last one of us is trying to finish unfinished work of our parents and grandparents. In this interview, Riley talks about the beauty and pain of her mother, of her grandmother, of her grandfather, of
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
her brother Ben and losing Ben to suicide, losing her mother and all that she's learned along the way. As I was reading the book, talking to her, I think the most profound realization of listening to Riley is like she might be the granddaughter of Elvis, but this is just a family story. This is a family story of beauty and survival. So we give you Riley Keough, who is an Emmy winner.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Did it feel like she was on the precipice of something? Like when you talk about she had found the words for trauma. Yeah. And then she wanted to start grief groups.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Golden Globe and Independent Spirit Award-nominated actress. She's known for her work in Daisy Jones and the Six, which our family loved, Zola and more. She also co-directed War Pony and co-founded the production company Felix Culpa with Gina Gammel. She is the eldest daughter of Lisa Marie Presley and sole trustee of Graceland.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
It also feels very like when you say that you you can feel your mom mothering your daughter, you hear yourself singing songs to her that your mom sang to you and you can actually feel her mothering her. I just think that's so beautiful for all of us to think about. And also you're doing these grief groups. Yes. Yeah. Like you're doing it.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
That's pretty good though, 50%. I'll take it. Okay, let's end with this. I mean, I cannot, there's no, the levels that I relate to your mom is just, it's just a lot. But at one point in the book, she said, I don't, some sort of recovery program that she didn't believe in because she felt like it was too focused on the physical and that addiction is a spiritual problem.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
What was the spiritual problem? What is it? Because as an addict, I understand no addiction bad, but huge fan of the people who get addicted. I always feel like they're the most tender, truthful people who feel more than the average bear. And then, you know, here come the painkillers. Do you have any finger on what is the spiritual problem? And then what's the gift?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Because we're always focused on generational trauma and then we don't think about, but where there is, you know, shit, there's so much beauty. So what is the gift? The shit and the gift, if you will.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Her new book, From Here to the Great Unknown, written in both Lisa Marie's and Riley's voices, A mother and daughter communicating from this world to the one beyond as they try to heal each other is available now. Riley, I just want to tell you a couple things before we start. Okay. So number one is our team told us that your team had reached out because
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Yeah, for sure. Well, Riley, you're great. If I were your ancestors, I would be so fucking proud of what you've done With your legacy. In the intro, you said something about there was a poem like Beauty Ben. Was it?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
All right. Pod squad. We love you. We'll see you next time.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
you had felt like there was more to talk about in your story than had been covered. At first, I was like, oh, we don't often have celebrities on the podcast. Right. And so I was like, huh. But I felt so intrigued by you because... First of all, our family watched Daisy Jones. Thank you. And I loved you. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
And I don't mean like I loved you like, oh, you are what I just I felt like you were special. Thank you. I just thought Daisy Jones. I just like that girl. OK. Then because of that outreach, I read your book.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
I did not expect it to be what it was. which to me was the most beautiful experience of multi-generational love and pain. I just fell in love with your family and your mom. I mean, your mom's honesty, like, holy shit. I felt so inspired by it, honestly. And then you're the project of Listening to her tapes and then you filling in all of the blanks felt like what we're doing with our lives.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
It was like this meta experience. I know.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
It's such an honor. And I also want you to know that I didn't know that you were Daisy Jones until like months after I finished the book. So imagine my excitement.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Yeah. At least. Yeah. At least right. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Well, imagine that you're on a podcast with a lot of people listening who don't know your family's story. That's funny. A few people do know your family's story. First, I think it would be wise for you to tell us your quick version of what you want people to know about your family. Okay. Before we get into... feelings and the stuff that I always want to talk about. So set the stage for us, Riley.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Who are you? Who is your family and why the book?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Tell us about what is the trauma in your family? Like when you think about What has happened? The sadness in her losing her father. What is the pain? What was the pain in her?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
From the poverty, like, what do you think? Because it's very easy to just say, well, it's Elvis. Yeah. But in the book, it's very clear. This is a family.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
So your mom is little and she loses her dad, which I think. In the book, she said, I was only sure of one thing ever. And that was that I was loved by my dad. And that it really struck me like to only have one thing you're sure of and then to lose that thing. What happened next after she lost her dad?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
One of my favorite parts about the holiday this year was our recent stay when we went to go visit Glenn and Abby's family in LA, but we stayed in our own Airbnb a few blocks away. It was the best of both worlds because look, you've got your privacy, you've got your own refrigerator, you've got your own beds, multiple beds, by the way, and your own bathroom. And you know what?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And it encourages self-healing for parents because it does truly. It's no bless us like when we say to our kid or if we say to ourselves, well, I can't just give them what they want. They will eat until they are sick or that we must not believe that about ourselves. Like if we learn for ourselves, if we start to eat intuitively and we heal and we learn that actually we are not bottomless pits.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
that our bodies work, then that self-trust would wash over us with our parenting. We would say, this child is not a bottomless pit. This child, I can provide this child what this child is asking for, and this child's body will regulate itself eventually.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
It's the sweetest time of year. Valentine's Day is right around the corner, y'all. And Macy's has the best of the best gifts for everyone you love. From cozy Ugg slippers to the Carolina Herrera Good Girl Liquid Blush, you'll find something perfect for everyone on your list. Macy's gift guide is so helpful. It has hand-picked top gifts to take all the guessing out of the process.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Some of the stuff on the list include the Joe Malone diffuser, Beats headphones, Sonos speakers, and the Breville espresso machine. Whatever you choose, you can't go wrong. What I love about Valentine's Day is it is a fun day to celebrate all the loves in your life. So for example, Alice recently got into old school photography, so I'm getting her a Fujifilm camera.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Middle schoolers apparently need pajama pants for school, so I'm picking up some for my son. And I'm treating myself to an Ugg Dasha throw blanket because nothing says love like more couch time. Shop now at macys.com slash gift guide for all the top picks.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Hey, everybody. We're getting through, aren't we? That's what we're doing. One foot in front of the other, 2025 is looking like it might be a real doozy. And we are in it with you and we're here for you and with you. Recently, our show was selected by Apple as one of their 10 shows we love. And they called it a comforting support system for braving the everyday. And that is what we hope.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Okay, I'm excited to tell you today about MidiHealth. If you have heard our menopause episodes, you know how passionate I feel about women having access to information about their bodies and about something that so fundamentally affects their lives. Here's the deal. If you're over 40 and you're starting to experience some of the symptoms of perimenopause or menopause,
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
If you're having hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, moodiness, all of this can be related to perimenopause or menopause. Log on to MidiHealth. I have done this. It is easy. In fact, I have recently been pursuing with MidiHealth hormone therapy to replace some of the hormones that are diminishing in my body.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Their clinicians, they meet with you and they suggest specialized care for your health concerns. It's all through telehealth and 24-7 messaging services. and they call in your prescriptions to your local pharmacy. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today at joinmidi, that's joinmidi.com.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
In my early days of recovering this time around, I started to understand that my anorexia was a bit of a an oppressive religion that I was following.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And like all oppressive religions, it was there to protect me from myself, that I thought I was bad and so I needed this set of dogma or to follow to protect me from my own badness, which as an aside is also was, I could have been describing my evangelical experience, but very similar, right? What? I remember talking to my doctor at that time and saying, I have great news.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I figured out what I'm going to replace the anorexia with. And I excitedly just told her a bunch of new rules that I was going to keep for myself. And I thought she was going to be like, she's nailing it. Yeah. And she said to me, you know, that's interesting, Glennon. I'm hearing what you're saying.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
What I want you to know is a lot of people who do not have an internal locus of control continue to depend on outer locus. locusts of control. Now, Evelyn, what I need you to know also is that everything was so confusing to me in early recovery that I thought she was telling me for one solid year that I needed to have a locust inside of me.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And Evelyn, not until I read it in a book was I like, oh, it's a locust. It's a center. So Can you explain what is an internal locust control?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And so many of us learned not to do that. It's like we all learned that the way that we can survive is to find a map. Like a map that someone else... A magical map. Yes. Like here's my religion map. Here's my work map. Here's my... And the problem with maps is that someone else made them, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
We hope that We can help you brave the everyday. That's what you help us do. And so on Sundays, we are publishing an episode for you, one of our favorite episodes of the past four years that we've selected to be a comforting support system. for all of us as we brave this new year.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So this idea that, okay, no more maps and just an inner compass that will guide you one step at a time.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So... The wild thing I'm finding a year and a half into recovery is that the food is the least of it. Yeah. Yeah. Because if one starts trusting one's hunger and discovering that one is not broken, then one starts trusting all of their other problems. bottomless pits. One starts trusting their need for rest. One starts trusting the validity of their anger.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
One starts trusting the need to slow down and feel the sadness. A magical discovering of unbrokenness is utterly life changing. Is this something you see happening that it just goes so beyond food and then you start trusting the compass for everything and then your entire outer world shifts.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Absolutely. That is so true.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So in addition to our new Tuesday, Thursday episodes and the ones that we're posting on Wednesday as well, please come on Sunday for some togetherness, some support, some soothing Sunday togetherness for 2025. Thank you. We will see you there.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So what are we so vigilant about? Like trying to get to the root of all of this. I did an episode about my original anorexia diagnosis, which shocked me. I just thought I was nailing it as a woman. I didn't know that I was anorexic at all. Yeah, I'm always figuring out that I'm things that I didn't know I was. But that's another story.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
What I remember some after an hour of talking about anorexia, somebody said, God, you're so fat phobic. And I wanted to be like, no shit, Sherlock. Like, what the hell do you think anorexia is? Clearly, I am revealing that I am terrified of growing, right? Like, yes, I am saying that that is true. What is the root of fat phobia?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Why the hell are we also, why have we been conditioned and trained to be afraid of it?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And the mistreatment of people in the prejudice and the horrific abuse, really, of people in bigger bodies. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And in white women, it's such a signal of goodness. Oh, it is. And worthiness and power. Power. I always think about the quote from Naomi Wolf, who, let's admit it, has seriously lost the plot. But she did say something very smart, which was... That thinness has never been about beauty. It's always been about obedience. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
It is my living in a tiny body and denying hunger, denying appetite, denying power, denying all of it is my signal to patriarchy that I am a good girl.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
PodSquad, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we have someone here who I have a hunch that a lot of you already know. Her name is Evelyn Tribbley, and she is the author of 10 books, including co-authoring the bestselling Intuitive Eating that everyone I know loves. follows at this point, which is a mind-body self-care eating framework, which has given rise to over 200 studies to date.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I read something that you, I think it was a New York Times article, where somebody was having dinner with you. And you had had a big dinner. And then you ordered cake. And you had one bite of it. And then you pushed it away. You invited the table to have some because you were full. And the person said, oh, you're so good. How did you have one bite of that? And you said, no, I'm not good.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I'm satisfied. Can you talk to us about good, bad, sin, discipline?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And we're talking about the morality of eating versus satisfaction.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Yeah. But because, you know, you trust yourself, you know, you're not going to future deprive yourself of this thing. So you don't have to eat till you're past full because, you know, you're going to give it to yourself whenever you want it in the future. Absolutely.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Yeah, your writing partner said that. This, which is so ridiculously simple, but made me very emotional. She said, you can have whatever you want. You can have it for the rest of your life. Yeah. Pod squatters. Like what? We could actually have the rest. We need it. We could have our sadness. We could have our anger. We could have our appetite.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
It's like what the work is to figure out all of the things that have been set up against us believing that.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Her newest book is Intuitive Eating for Every Day, 365 Inspirations and Practices. Evelyn? Do you have any background knowledge about me?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Yeah. And what I've discovered in this year of recovery where I start to see everything differently is People who don't meet their own needs, selfless people are very dangerous. I truly am starting to see that I was a dangerous person, like being not a person who can Feed myself in all different ways makes you so controlling of the outer world.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
When you don't trust yourself, you don't trust anyone else. And that makes you dangerous. That's such a good point. Yeah. You know, so I don't I have shifted from seeing selflessness or martyrdom or obsession with the other and not the self. I've gone from seeing it as. just a harmless woman thing to actually quite dangerous.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Like I don't want to be around people who don't take care of themselves because I don't trust it.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
That is the story that my doctor told me to finally convince me that I was anorexic in my pregnancy. very adamant insistence that I was not.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
When she read me that study and all the details about what happened to those men, it was absolutely devastating to me because I felt like I was discovering that what I thought was my personality or my personhood was actually just a bundle of symptoms of someone who was of hungry brain.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Then you can have your own bedtimes. It was just so nice to wake up in our own cozy place and have our own family time and then rejoin the larger family for the Christmas festivities and then retreat when everyone needed a little breather. So here's the deal.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
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We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
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We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
There's 10 principles of intuitive eating. It's not the same at all in any way, but a little bit it reminds me of recovery, like AA, because it's like a set of things that helps you live a little bit differently. But I know it's not rules. I know we're not doing that.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
We're not doing that. But I know you choose to lead with the ones that you feel like a person needs to hear. Yeah. What tenets of intuitive eating do you feel like would be good to share with us or start with us for this podcast?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
For background, I want you to know that I have read everything you've done and listened to you everywhere. And so I. Oh, wow. Thank you. Can you explain what intuitive eating is? If like I'm a child, like pretend I'm in third grade. Yeah. And explain what it is.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Do you, are you scared of your appetite? Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And I don't even like when you talk about that intermittent fasting around. I've asked her not to do that because I just feel like so much. I have a bottomless pit of anger at diet culture. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you. It's everywhere. It's everything. It's so much. I think even all. Look.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I think even being scared that you're addicted to sugar is probably just from diet culture, right? Like why does everyone suddenly think they're addicted to sugar? Like why is it just that we like sugar?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
For me, it's like a removal of all of the things that I have been told will protect me from myself. That's the journey I'm in right now. Like I am suspicious of every single thing in my life. Every person, every dogma, every intermittent fasting feels to me like just another thing that somebody is telling me is going to protect me from this dangerous appetite that I have. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
What am I what are we all protecting ourselves from?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
The latest and greatest. I'll never forget seeing an advertisement for cigarettes that said gluten-free.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
That's not the perfect illustration of it is. Don't trust what's really good for you. Just trust the latest craze that wellness tells you to avoid gluten. Smoke these cigarettes. Gluten free. Oh, my God.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Are there any people that are in such trauma places or for whatever reason, this doesn't work? Like, are there people that should be, that don't have the inner locus of guidance?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
That's such an important thing to say because when I'm listening to you say that, I'm thinking, yeah, that's what I needed. And I'll tell you what, I've been avoiding you. It's weird. I have been. I was not ready for this for a very long time. And I think- Not because of you.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
No, because- Oh, I didn't take it personally. No, because I knew that this was the goal, but I also knew that I couldn't do it yet. You need to be ready. I needed to be ready. And I had someone said to me in early recovery, Just eat intuitively. I would have lost my damn mind. Like I didn't know what they were saying. So I needed, like in the very beginning, I did have my doctor's head ruled.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Right back at you. And I just love you because you've been doing this for a long time. Like if any pod squatter is thinking that this is like a trendy new thing, it's just trendy that people are actually talking about it in a wider. I mean, Evelyn has been doing this for decades, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I have one last question. Yeah. It's about suffering. I suspect that we're always talking about how there's so much at the root of all of this diet culture, all of it that has to do with capitalism. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
what I find in my recovery is that the more that I am honoring and trusting myself, the less productive I am being, the less hamster wheelie, um, serving every, like doing all the things, make it to social media, working, going. I just, I'm, I'm, I'm doing less of that. And, um, I just, do you think that there's a reason why culture wants women to be suffering and not trusting themselves?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Because we can talk about its capitalism from a high level, but what I'm telling you is I am seeing it. I am seeing recovery make me less of a pawn. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Yes, we do. So I am in my 1200th level of recovery right now. I became bulimic when I was 10 years old. And then I thought that I got it fixed when I was 25 because I became pregnant with my son. And basically what I have learned is that from the ages of 25 until now, I'm 48. I had just switched bulimia for anorexia. So I thought I was good.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Look at me. I'm 48 and I'm on step two or whatever. So Evelyn, just thank you for doing this work for so many people for so long. We're just grateful for you. And I just feel like if you want proof that Evelyn, that this works, Evelyn is in fucking Hawaii about to go surfing. That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Pod squad. We love you. We can do hard things. Thank you, Evelyn. Thank you for having me on.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz. I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
But what I really did was just create a million rules to try to control the hunger. So now I'm in anorexia recovery and I think I'm getting healthy for the first time in my life. Wonderful. Wonderful. Which feels like starting over like I am a kid. So here's my question to you to start off with.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So I've listened to a lot of your interviews and I felt comforted when you say that a lot of other people say to you, I don't, I'm broken. Like I am a bottomless pit of hunger. Like I hear what you're saying. This is what I believed, Evelyn.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Whether you're traveling with family or friends, those extra rooms, the fully stocked kitchen, not only saves you a bunch of money, but it also makes a huge difference in If you're flying solo, you can make your stay your own little sanctuary. If you're planning a winter getaway this year, I highly recommend giving Airbnb a try. Trust me, it's an experience you won't regret.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I believed for everyone else that they did have a mechanism inside of them that they could eat and feel full and stop and then eat and feel full and stop, et cetera. I did not believe that about myself. I believed that I did not have that thing, that if I started eating, if I let my hunger go, I would eat until I died, that I would never be satiated. What I wanna ask you about is that,
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I've heard you call that a primal hunger. And I feel that. Like I remember when I was in my bulimia years, just I felt like an animal, like a primally eating, binging. But when I think about my recovery now and how much wider it is than just food, I think, you know what? I have that primal feeling about a lot of things. I have a primal sadness feeling.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I feel like if I start crying, if I let myself feel sad, I will never stop. I have a primal anger. If I let myself scream, I will never stop. I have primal exhaustion. If I let myself stop, I will never get up. So I heard you say that where there is primal hunger, we can look back and see deprivation.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So is it possible that I clearly felt so hungry because my hunger was not allowed? as a child, like I wasn't allowed to eat. I wasn't allowed to feel hunger. So the deprivation led to the primal hunger. Is it possible that all of our primal desperation, if we look backwards, we find that we weren't allowed to have it. Like there was no room for sadness. There was no room for anger.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
There was no room for rest. And there was no room for hunger in my childhood home. And is that the source of the desperation?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
thing that will tell me when I'm hungry and that I can eat and then feel full and then wait a few hours and then feel hungry again and then eat and then feel full and then wait. I understand what I'm saying to you sounds very obvious, but I did not know that about myself.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
How do we lose it? Like, I want to start with the little girl, right? The little girl who did know, does know when she's hungry. But let me tell you a story, okay, that I was thinking about this morning. I have wonderful, beautiful parents. You know that during recovery, a lot of stuff comes up, right? So I have been exploring the complexity of my family of origin.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Karmically, I also have deeply feeling sensitive writers for children. So I know that I will be dealing with them figuring me out in several years. Karmically, I'll get it back. I remember my parents sitting with me at the dinner table as a child. And whenever I would go for a second scoop, my dad would look at me and he would say, did you wait for your message? Wait for your message. Oh.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And that is what was said to me every night. And then I would freeze and then I would stop eating. So it's interesting, though, Evelyn, right? Because it's like he was trying to teach me that I would have an instinct inside me of fullness. But what happened was that I didn't learn that I had a message. I learned that he was the message. Wow. And the control was outside of me. So that's one way.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
How do we lose, in general, how do people lose their trust in their own bodies and start looking outside of themselves?
We Can Do Hard Things
Inside a WTF Week: Stock Market Nosedives, Dept of Ed Decimated & the Elon Circus with Jessica Yellin
I mean, okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Inside a WTF Week: Stock Market Nosedives, Dept of Ed Decimated & the Elon Circus with Jessica Yellin
Seated.
We Can Do Hard Things
Inside a WTF Week: Stock Market Nosedives, Dept of Ed Decimated & the Elon Circus with Jessica Yellin
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
Inside a WTF Week: Stock Market Nosedives, Dept of Ed Decimated & the Elon Circus with Jessica Yellin
spotify odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow this is the most important thing for the pod while you're there if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend we would be so grateful we appreciate you very much
We Can Do Hard Things
Inside a WTF Week: Stock Market Nosedives, Dept of Ed Decimated & the Elon Circus with Jessica Yellin
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Since November, Abby, Amanda, and I have been planning, dreaming up ways for this community to show up for each other, take care of each other, and continue building community. But you know that several months ago I quit social media, and the effects of that quitting on my nervous system, mind, and heart have been as dramatic as when I quit drinking.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And then that rush to protect me is the extra energy that causes autoimmune stuff.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Which is very inconvenient because this was like during COVID for you. So your audio movie, you're like, dear cells, I really need you to do the other thing. I need the virus protection.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So that's what your immune system does. And then what about your nervous system?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So 7% of the people who go to the ER because they're having like heart issues, they think they're having a heart attack, actually end up being diagnosed with this thing that is heartbreak. Can you tell us what the hell that is doing in them and where it shows up?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And if you have friends that you think want to be part of these offerings in this moment, email them, tag them, whatever you need to do to get the newsletter to them because I won't be promoting it heavily on social media. Now, I can promise you two things about this newsletter. I will be writing to you directly. It will be me. I miss writing to you directly. I'm going to do it on the newsletter.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Is this why we got the idea of hearts having feelings? Like, why is it called heartbreak? Why did we all decide your feelings are your heart? Why isn't like lung break when you break up or like- Body break. Spleen break or kidney, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Why is it, why did we all decide that feelings were of the heart?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Okay. So how do you get from the, this is terrible. My body is falling apart and I feel crushed to, I want to move forward and fix it.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
It might be the only place that I'm doing that. And two, I will never sell or give or whatever people do with emails, okay? I will keep them safe and sacred. So here's what you do. Go to glennandoyle.com. You will see a sign-up box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address. If you're on Instagram, go to my page, click the link in bio.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
You can make the. I mean, I feel when you say that, I just want to stop there for a second and say that it is the awe or the goosebumps or the feeling of taking in beauty that makes you more resilient through heartbreak. Because just personally, that makes me feel sad and scared for my old self because when things got hard, I would always up all my medication. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And I'm a big fan of medication. Like I'm not, the pod squad knows that I have an ongoing on and off relationship with it. But that is interesting because one thing that medication does for me is that it also, it dulls the pain of heartbreak, but it 100% dulls the awe. I off medication cry 10 times a day. I am in a much deeper place of awe So that's interesting, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
That something we're using to treat heartbreak could also treat the antidote to heartbreak. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Well, it goes back to the range of emotions, right? Like if you're talking about medication can be so helpful to people who really need to reign in the range of what they can feel because it's scary and dangerous and whatever. But what awe does is the range goes out, but you can't make it just go out on one side. That's right. It's widening the whole breadth, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
You will see sign up for newsletter as the second button. Click the button and submit your email address. That's it. We are going to keep showing up for each other. The invitations will start coming soon on the newsletter. So go register now and I'll see you there.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yes. And everything changed for you. The water during this time, which would be equivalent for me of what you're going through. I went to a hotel that was near an ocean and it was long before I lived near an ocean. And I heard the waves crashing and that sounds such a silly thing, but that was really, I guess, heart opening or awe inspiring for me. And it did help.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And Abby, we were talking about your work and Where did you, after your heartbreak, we were talking about how you went to. Which one? Which one?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Abby's, she says she's not a goosebump girl, but I don't believe it. She just doesn't get the actual goosebumps. She's in love with love.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And what did you say to me about why you like to be in nature? You're going to love this, I think.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
When I said, well, why did you... feel so passionately in Sedona and stay there because you were by yourself. She was by herself. And she said, I think it was because nature can't reject me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So you're with this person who tells you that awe is the thing you can change, which is so interesting because... There's so much about our personality that we can't, when like scientists look at it, it's like your neuroticism is your neuroticism. Your conscientiousness is your conscientiousness. But the one word that they use when they're trying to figure out is openness. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Openness is the criteria, which is fascinating. Openness is what lets you access awe. So the openness is... what you're trying to, the factor you're trying to get changed so you can access these things. But that's fascinating too, because we always talk about my heart was broken open. Like that is the pinnacle you're trying to get to is openness, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Okay, so we're getting to openness now. Which also I'd love for you to talk before you actually start accessing nature, you start, you know, doing the really the functions to try to get there. There's one part of your book where you're talking to people who are saying you need to write the story. Even if you don't need to write the story, you need to write the story of what happened there.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So that you can let go of trying to figure out the story. I think that is such an important part that people don't talk about enough. Can you tell us about like what our own need to like figure out our narratives? What the hell just happened to me? just speak to that piece because I think a lot of people remain stuck in that WTF phase.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Hello, pod squad. Today we have a good news, bad news, good news day, because today we are talking about heartbreak. And if you haven't had heartbreak, well, lucky, lucky you. And the only people that may be luckier than you are the people who have, because although it's something we would not wish on anyone, it really does
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Is it like when you're thinking about or obsessing about what happened, that is like directional. It's looking backwards. It's looking down. It's looking inwards, obsessing. And when you keep saying what happened, you cannot be saying what's happening. Hmm. You're looking backwards and you miss it. I was thinking about the most recent heartbreak I had, which was the day of the election.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And when I woke up the next morning, I thought, I don't know how to, I don't know. And when I was listening to you speak about awe, I was thinking, oh my God. So I go upstairs the morning after the election and I'm making coffee because we know that goes on. And- I look outside and I see the sun rising. And Florence, when I tell you that I was like, wait, what?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
The sun is rising as if it has not been informed? Right. That is the only thing that I texted friends that day. Is you guys, I woke up and the sun was rising and it was beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah. And embraces that like, it's directional too. It's not looking back and trying to figure it out. But even the acceptance that I will never, I went through not the length of the marriage, but a very similarly baffling, what the hell marriage. And the hardest part for me became The template for the rest of my life, which is that I will never know what happened here. Not in 7 million years.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
once you get to a point, maybe give you an access to a depth and a range of emotion that is impossible to find any other way. So welcome, welcome. Here's the bad news. is that you can't game heartbreak. This is what we're gonna learn from our guest today. The good news is it's not in your head, even if you think it is. And even if everyone tells you it is, it's actually in your body.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
I will never understand why. I will never try to make a good guy and a bad guy. It's just a mystery. Right. But when you're prone, when you accept that mystery is a thing. that you can integrate, then it's not a coincidence that you're like, look out at nature. It's a mystery. I'm not, when you try to, a sure way to not appreciate nature is to try to figure it out.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So there's something about all the experiences you had that was really an embrace of like, I want to step toward mystery. I want to step toward this thing that I can't possibly put into words, which is awe.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So are awe and heartbreak like the same thing, just opposites? Oh, interesting. Are they both just, holy shit, what just happened? Like, are they both the actual manifestations of mystery and one just is the negative and one is the positive?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
I know that the MDMR and psilocybin piece was, it's complicated and you're not advising it for everyone nor advising it for anyone. But in your experience, it was very liberatory towards this awe and this release. Can you just tell us what happened there, what you saw and how it helped you release?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
It's been wild, and it's been extremely important for me to experience. Since that quitting, I have felt calmer, braver, and clearer, actually. And in the midst of that, we have come up with some honestly terrifyingly realer and more embodied ways to connect with you and as a community than on social media.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And so you have to get out of your head to get into the light. And there's a way to get there. And many paths we will find out through this conversation to get there. And we're going to talk about how.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Thank you very much. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And if you are in any kind of heartbreak, which I believe that most of us are, whether it's romantic or whether we're like it's this country or whether it's some transition we're being forced through, all of this is for you. Today we are talking to science journalist Florence Williams, who is the author of The Nature Fix and most recently Heartbreak, A Personal and Scientific Journey.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Florence explores the connections between humans and the natural world and reveals the profound psychological and physiological benefits of rewilding ourselves. Florence, it is, I regret to take you back to this moment, after 32 years together, Your husband departs the marriage and your life and your heart is broken. We're going to talk about all the ways your body broke down in very real ways.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Okay, people, awareness, weight, exhale. Microdose beauty. Microdose beauty. Oh, thank you, Florence, for all of this. And no, it was a hard road to travel. Something beautiful sure did come out of it for the world. So thank you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And the point is, at that point, you say, I am a scientist journalist. I would like for someone to tell me about the science of recovery. Where in God's name is the protocol for recovering from heartbreak? Where the hell is this? Because... We should have it. Can you start us on this journey that we're going to be on by taking us back to the first day of your college life?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
It was a damn strangling vine. Yeah. Now she's free and has great sex. So good to get the vinyl.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah. I love that you can be in my roots all day. You can't be on my truck.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
What happened that first week?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Until we have to set the stage for this. Okay. So you are hosting a dinner party. Yes. The people are at your door. You've now been married 25 years. People are at your door about to come in. Your husband hands you his phone to look at something and you see what?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
I want to keep showing up for each other and I want to keep building community now more than ever, but I don't want to do it on social media anymore. So here's what I'm telling you today. Soon I'm going to be inviting you into something special and the invitation is first going to go to you through my new newsletter.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So eventually you're trying to figure out what to do. You send him to figure it out, right? Like go, you've got to figure out what you want. Can you tell us what this, what he said was so interesting and heartbreaking in a little way to me too, when he came back from his trip where he was trying to sort out what he wanted, what he said to you?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now it's settled down. And then it begins settling. You're like, okay, I'm a scientist. I can figure this out. I'm going to go figure it out. What are you just, for the people who are going through heartbreak or have been and thought it was just like a weakness in their minds, like they couldn't just figure it out and get over it.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Tell us what you learned is like actually happening in our bodies when we are crushed like this.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Okay, I have a new newsletter and all of my invitations and Abby and Amanda's invitations to new projects, new events, all the beautiful offerings we're planning are going to come to you first on this newsletter. All right, now listen, if history proves to be an indicator, what will happen is the newsletter will go out.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
You had like a skyrocketing inflammation and white cells and type one diabetes, right? Yeah. Wasn't it all the autoimmune stuff just like flooded in at the same time?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
What did you learn about that sense of when you were talking about a threat state? What did you learn about that?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Everyone who receives the newsletter will sign up for these offerings and then they will be sold out. That's what happens. And then everyone gets sad and mad who didn't get the invitation in time. And since I am in my programs, I know that will not be my responsibility, but still I don't want it to happen. So please sign up for the newsletter now so you won't be sad or mad later.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So that's why all the autoimmune diseases.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
I just want to say I'm just like thinking about the fact that I came down with a serious autoimmune disease. I'm just right now thinking of this right after. I, my ex-husband told me about his infidelity. Wow. Very interesting.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
So just can I just understand this for a second? Okay. So I am suddenly getting I'm getting some news in my life or you are that I'm about to be banished from my protective herd. Okay. And so my cells hear that information. And then they do what? They rush to protect me because I am going to be alone away from the herd.
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
You guys, we're doing a live virtual event because since the tour sold out so quickly, Lots of you were sad to not be a part of it and we can't stand your sadness. So we're hosting a virtual event to support those who could not get tickets and to support our beloved local independent bookstores. All the proceeds from this virtual event are going to these local bookstores.
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
It is getting very close to book release time. Our new book, We Can Do Hard Things, Answers to Life's 20 Questions, comes out on May 6th. You can pre-order We Can Do Hard Things anywhere you get your books or you can go to treatmedia.com. You can also join us for a virtual event that we're doing on publication day.
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
What in the World is Happening with Your 401(k) & Tariffs?? | Jessica Yellin with What We Need to Know
They show up for us, we're showing up for them. May 6th, if you pre-ordered the book from an independent bookstore, you don't have to buy it again to come to the event. Please register for the event by uploading your indie order at treatmedia.com. just click the option that says i've already pre-ordered from another indie okay we'll see you there
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
When the documentary was premiered at Sundance, afterwards, we were all in the theater together. And afterwards, this large, kind of like big, I mean, big bro guy, big, straight looking white
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Megan Fowley is a nationally ranked slam poet and the author of three full-length collections of poetry. Most recently, her book Drive Here and Devastate Me. Since transitioning to writing prose, excerpts from her memoir in progress have won several first and second place national prizes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
guy stood up to speak as soon as the standing ovation was over well and just so the folks know there was a Q&A right after the film and then the Q&A this is what the moment that this gentleman stood up and he was choked up and he said I have never the whole theater went silent and he said I have never enjoyed crying for an hour and a half as much as I enjoyed that and then he said please please
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
when this gets bought, please make sure that it's in every theater so that people can experience this in community. He was stunned. He could just tell he was stunned by his own love for this, for you too. And I just, that's going to be the experience everywhere. And I can't, I think one of the reasons I feel so grateful for it is just the way the universe put it in this moment in this country. Um,
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
It's such an undeniable piece. You just can't watch it and not have your heart explode with love for life and for your love. And I just wonder, what do you think is so special about you and Andrea? Because actually, what's discussed behind the scenes is that there's a stakes, right, in the doc because of the cancer. But it couldn't be less about cancer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I truly believe in my whole heart that if it were just following you two for a year without the cancer, that it would also crack hearts open because there's something about you two individually and together that is so epitomizes love. So what the hell is it? What is going on with you two and you individually? But for real, like what do you think in your hardest of hearts and your mindest of minds?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Oh, God, that's my dream. So what we have to tell you, PodSquad, is I think the most beautiful creative story, one of the most beautiful creative stories we have ever been a part of as a team, which is a story of friendship and also a beautiful piece of art. that was made called Come See Me in the Good Light, which is a documentary about Andrea Gibson and Megan Fowley.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And I would say, no, no, you say what it is. Yeah, Meg. And then we're going to tell you, PodSquad, how this magical situation came into the world and the story of how we all ended up in a six-bedroom, house in Park City at Sundance full of lesbians plus Sara Bareilles because Sara Bareilles is always an honorary lesbian. I don't know how she's pulled this off, but she is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Does it help you? Sometimes I think that I don't understand what's going on. myself in my life until Abby tells me what she sees like good or bad when Abby tells me this is what I'm seeing in you this is what I'm seeing then I'm like oh I'm amazing or oh I'm fucked or oh I'm whatever
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
But like, was there something about having a witness to your story who is also going to project that story out to the world that made you understand the epicness of your lives? You know, Ulysses is nothing until somebody writes the story. Your story is epic. And you even know what you say in some parts of the doc, like this is like biblical allegorical shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I mean, she wrote the gay anthem. Right. And days of what we will tell you was a snuggle down and then premieres of this documentary and how it has been received in the world, which has been a miraculous thing. So Megan, How are you describing or thinking about Come See Me in the Good Light in your miraculous octopoidal brain?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
did it help you to take your place in that story as epic to have a witness?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Sometimes Meg, when someone asks you a question, I don't know if you know that you do this, but if someone asks you a serious question, like, how are you? You'll go language, language. And it makes my heart swell when you do that, because to me, it's like this moment where you are not Wanting to answer with your whole self and truth and body.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And you know, you only have this one tool, which is language, which is never going to be enough. And you're just, to me, it's like your signal, like, okay, you'll never be able to know just from the words I pick, but I'm going to try.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Because you can, your whole body and the feeling, it made me appreciate embodiment and movie so much because you had more than language. To tell and show. And I wonder what do you think when you watch it that makes you an interesting subject? Like when you are finally able to admit, oh, I'm an interesting subject. You described why Andrea is. Why are you an interesting subject?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
It isn't real.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
What do you think about that, Meg?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
She runs an online writing workshop called Poems That Don't Suck, which has been heralded as a degree's worth of education in five short weeks. Andrea Gibson is one of the most celebrated and influential spoken word artists of our time. Best known for their live performances, Andrea has changed the landscape of what it means to attend a poetry show.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
,,,,,,,
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
We love you, PodSquad. Reach out to your local senators, your local streaming president. I don't know. Just you'll know what to do. We did our part. Okay? Call your people.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Reach into your soul and ask your soul not what the movie can do for you, but what you can do for the movie. Exactly. Does somebody have an Aunt Carol that works at HBO or Apple? Just call Aunt Carol. Carol. We love you, PodSquad. Bye. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Okay. I'm going to tell it from how it happened from my perspective. And then I want to hear from Meg's perspective, how it intersected differently. Also, I would say
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
before I start this, that if Ticket called us and said, this story needs to be made about Andrea and Meg and Andrea's love of life and Meg's love of life and Andrea and Meg's love of each other and there were no cancer involved, I would have said, that is a hell yes. Like, it's not the cancer. That's right. It's the way that you two live individually and together that is the YOLO message.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And I'm not saying that, like, I'm serious. I would have been like, yep, the whole world just needs to see a year of those two. And then that will fix the world. Okay. Here's what happened in a nutshell. This is a long time ago. I am in my hellacious part of my last round of anorexia treatment.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I am at a moment with the best doctors on the planet where I'm looking at one saying, I can't do this anymore. Nobody, all I can say to you is I don't think it's going to work. I kept saying, I was crying on the Zoom with her and I kept saying, nothing is true enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Yeah. And I don't know what that meant. Okay. But it felt like a serious proclamation at the moment. Like I met nobody in therapy. Nobody's being true enough. So I can't recover. Okay. My long suffering doctor looks at me and says the following. The only thing I can think of for you right now is Andrea Gibson's poetry. I'm like, who's Andrea Gibson?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I laid in the fetal position in bed that night with Abby and said, the best doctor on the planet just told me that the only treatment she has left for me is poetry. I am so fucked. That was my first thing. Next day, I order all Andrea's books. Abby and I leave for a vacation. I start reading Andrea's poetry.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Andrea's poems center around LGBTQ issues, spirituality, feminism, mental health, and social justice. Andrea is the author of seven books, most recently, You Better Be Lightning.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I'm like... Something about the body thing, something about the life in it, something about it. I just am like, oh, okay, this is true enough. Then I find... through Andrew's books, Megan. Then I order Megan's work. Then I, I'm like, oh my God, I can't do anything except ingest these two human beings. Okay. I completely ignore my marriage. One day, Abby takes a picture of me at breakfast.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
We're by ourselves at a table of two at a restaurant and I'm just reading your books and Abby's by herself. Yeah, I've had enough. I mean. So Abby takes a picture, DMs it to Andrea, right? That day, we end up in a conversation where Andrea says that they have to figure out how to tell the community that they had just found out that the cancer was incurable.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Because, of course, Andrea's thinking, how are they going to handle this? How are my people going to handle this? I'm worried about them. The three of us end up on an episode of We Can Do Hard Things. where Andrea is discussing their incurable diagnosis on the podcast. We all somehow become friends. That moment, I guess, is when we become friends. One night, Abby and I are in bed at 7.30 p.m.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
This is like many months later. Tig calls us. Tig is our dear friend and Andrea and Meg's dear friend. Tig calls us and says... I think that there needs to be a documentary about Meg and Andrea. And I think you guys should be involved. So tell me if you want to meet sometime. So we send Tig a link immediately to get on Zoom from bed. Tig says, pitches the idea.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Megan Fowley and Andrea Gibson are the subjects of the most beautiful doc we have seen, which hopefully you will see soon, called Come See Me in the Good Light, which just won the Festival Favorite Award at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival that we were all at. Welcome, Meg Fowley.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And we say very responsibly because we've heard this is what grownups do. We say, we hear you. We would like to think this over. And we'll get back to you. We hang up the Zoom link, and 30 seconds later, we text Tig and said, we've thought it through. We've consulted our bodies and brains. We believe it's a good idea. We're all in.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Throughout, just fast forward, and then I'm going to turn it over to you, Meg. During this, Tig contacts these two people from Tripod Media, Ryan White and Jessica Hargrave, who... are unfreaking believable artists and directors and producers. They are all in. There is a moment where, and you'll see it in the doc, where Andrea is doing a performance, a show.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Chase and Abby and I are sitting there and I get a text from Sara Bareilles. And she's like, turn around. And I'm like, what? Because we're in this theater. Andrea was performing a live show. Right. Right. And Sarah. Last May. Sarah has flown to the show to secretly be there because she's so obsessed with Andrea and Mike. Okay. I go into the back room with Andrea and there's a huge set of flowers.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Set of flowers? Okay. Okay. From Brandy and Kath. because Kath and Brandy are so obsessed with Andrew and Meg that they have said, so- Brandy Carlisle and Katharine Carlisle. I'm like, oh my God, it's just like this moment. So then we pull Sarah and Brandy into executive producing the doc. So then the doc becomes, Andrew and Meg are the people who it's about. Subjects. Subjects.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Tig Notaro and Steph Willen And Ryan and Jessica are making it. The executive producers are me and Abby, Brandy and Cass, Sara Bareilles, just this. And then we become this little family. And then it's the most beautiful thing that's ever happened. And then it gets into Sundance.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And then we all have a house that we call the snuggle down where all of us just stay in this house for all the premieres. Okay, Meg, now you go.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
It's so good to see you. All of you. Okay. Pod squad. How do we describe what's happening right now? Okay. Today's episode is going to be a conversation between us and our dearest love, Meg Fowley. who you might know from so many previous episodes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
It's a tiny job, Caitlin.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today is, as our friend Allison says, a real TR. which means a real treat. Her mom used to say, this is a real TR, which was supposed to be short for treat, but actually it's longer than treat. It's a little confusing. Anyway, today we have a real TR. Our dear friend, Caitlin Curtis.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Mm-hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
We're all deconstructing. Every single person who has made it even close to this far on this podcast is deconstructing something, right? Was taught a way of life that at some point for you, Caitlin, it was in college where I think you took a literature class and was like, wait a minute. I mean, deconstruction comes fast for evangelicals. People are like, wait, there's dinosaurs?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Like, it's something that's like very literal, right? It either comes fast or not at all. Or not at all because you protect your Jenga tower, right? You don't let one block come out because you don't want the whole thing to… Yes, it's true. But what is so fascinating to me, Caitlin, and something I go through over and over again, is that with deconstruction of anything, whether it's a family…
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
code or religion or whiteness or patriarch, it starts to deconstruct. And then we want to replace it with something else. So for you, you lost your connection to the indigenous community, evangelicalism. It's like replace it with something else.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
And what I'm finding over and over again from a million different wise women and for myself is that the only thing that can replace a structure of thinking that's off is not another one, but it's embodiment. It's embodiment. in your work, you offer us real things that we can do. When you said that the way you pray, listen to this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
You said that sometimes the first thing you say when you pray is, God, how are you doing with all of this?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
How does it feel to have to be aware of so many things? I mean, Caitlin, I don't think I've In the whole book, I sensed my whiteness as much as I did when you said that. I was like, I haven't fucking checked in with God ever.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Circling back, circling back, God, circling back with this. Did you receive my email? Just checking. It's so beautiful. So talk to us about embodiment and maybe can you start with how you talk about checking in with your little girl self?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Yesterday we were at dinner with, well, at our table and two of the teenagers at our table were talking about how they actually have to set alarms every hour to wake themselves up all night to keep studying because they have so much work. They sleep for 15 minutes, wake themselves up. We are doing this to them and it's not a mistake.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
We're training them to be good machines in a capitalist culture, right? So that's why this work is everything. It's about coming home. What you're saying, Caitlin, it's about adamantly, relentlessly remembering and holding on to being human.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Caitlin Curtis is an award-winning author, poet, storyteller, and public speaker. As an enrolled citizen of the Pottawatomie Nation, Caitlin writes on the intersections of spirituality and identity. She is a wise and vital voice on decolonizing our bodies, faith, and families, and the freedom and peace of embodiment, finding wholeness in ourselves, our story, and our lineage.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
You can only know it in your body. Caitlin Curtis. Y'all, just go get Native. Go get Living Resistance. Follow Caitlin on Instagram and begin the rewiring. We adore you. Thank you for this time, Caitlin. PodSquad, catch you next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
And- And Caitlin, you just said out of body. It's so, and you said a minute ago, that trauma separates us from our bodies. And that is what happens. It feels out of body because when trauma enters, we exit our bodies. And that's disembodiment.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
And you were grasping. You were grasping for new things. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
How did specifically purity culture, because when we talk about disembodiment and then we talk about evangelical way of life, purity culture seems to be Mm-hmm. A factor? What is purity culture?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Her new book, Living Resistance, An Indigenous Vision for Seeking Wholeness Every Day, examines the journey of resisting the status quo by caring for ourselves, one another, and and Mother Earth, and is beautiful and is available now. Welcome, Caitlin.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
I was like, yes, I am pure. Purity culture reminds me of the credit card machines. You know how you look at the card and it's like, do not, do not remove, do not remove, do not remove. And you're watching it and you're like, so I shouldn't remove. And then remove now, remove now, remove now. Right? It's like purity culture is like, don't have sex, don't have sex, don't have sex. And then-
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
The minute you get married, have sex, have sex, have sex. But you're still traumatized from trying not to have sex because you thought it was so bad.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Tell everybody what the ring is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
And it shows us the connection between colonization and disembodiment. Because even when you hear that language, the way you're using it, Caitlin, it sounds like sexual assault to me. It sounds like you- powerful men have the right to enter and conquer any unholy. That is so directly connected to purity culture. In American, in Christian, in patriarchy, what is an unholy body?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
An unpure body is a woman's body. It's so directly related to why women need to be disembodied because in a world like ours, our bodies are not safe to live in because they can be taken over at any point without...
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Well, you said when people come up to you individually to talk about your life or your feelings, you say, no, I do that in bulk on stage.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Thanks. How does ASD affect relationships? Like what challenges and if there are gifts, what are those? Because you're in a relationship now. Nailing it. Nailing it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
why is it so hard for girls to get diagnosed what is that about we present differently so the um the
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Can you talk to us about your decision to stop using self deprecating humor about your body or about your sexuality or about your gender, any of it in comedy? Like how did that come to you and what does it mean to you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
So I just want to talk about, That you do. You do. I just want to talk forever, but we only have 15 minutes. So here's what I want to talk about now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
This is what's interesting to me. Is the journey that you and your mom have taken, but that in terms of the journey you've taken to figure out what comedy is to you. You had a moment with your mom where she was talking about not having regretted anything. And you said... Is there anything maybe?
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Masking is mimicking, trying to replicate what other people are doing, but they're not doing it by instinct.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And it's so important when talking about neurodiversity to actually be talking to people who are neurodivergent. And with that, we're going to give you Hannah Gadsby. Hannah Gadsby stopped stand-up comedy in its tracks with her multi-award winning show, Nanette. Its release and subsequent Emmy and Peabody wins took Nanette and Hannah to the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Can I read you one quote from your book that you said about your family? Sure. That I think is so important. It would be weird if I said no. Yeah, it would be weird, but I would honor you. We would respect it. Yeah, you're very kind. Pass. This is about your mom having a very hard time with you coming out at first.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Um, but you said our family unit had been collateral damage, nothing more than pawn porn for the juvenile and toxic political games being played out well above our heads. That is the shit that ruined my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Some families are reacting badly to their humanity. And I think your point is so important that those families, those parents are pawns. Mm-hmm. They have been duped. They have been tricked. They have been preached to by higher powers that have taught them to fear their children. Yeah. Yeah. So how is it going with your mom now? How does she feel about your new book? Did she read it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Hannah's difficult second album, which was also her 11th solo show, was named Douglas After Her Dog. Douglas covered Hannah's autism diagnosis, moving beyond the trauma at the center of Nanette and instead letting the world see the view from Hannah's brain, one that sees the world differently but with breathtaking clarity.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
That's why we love her. Do you feel she called it, well, you called it in the book. And by the way, you did say your dad was okay. There was one little part. I had to add that in.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I'm like, oh, yeah, but he's fine.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
It was a very small sentence, just so you know. Yeah, it was. But it was there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Or interesting? I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Your mom, you called it pinning butterflies. Yeah. The freeze frames of people's relationships or lives. Do you feel scared of that now that you have that understanding that telling stories about other people is kind of pinning butterflies? I'm just wondering if you feel scared about your work going forward because I do. I feel scared about telling stories about people suddenly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
The show was an Emmy-nominated smash hit and is available throughout the world on Netflix. Hannah's award-winning shows are a fixture in festivals across Australia and the UK. Her first book, 10 Steps to Nanette, a memoir situation, which I adored, is out now. We're talking today to someone who honestly,
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And with that. Hannah, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all of the work that you did.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And interesting information and important information. Time will tell. We won't listen to time regardless. But please also thank Jenny. I will. And just again, thank you, Hannah. Absolute pleasure. Keep it real, guys. Keep on trucking. You're the best.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Okay. What I want to say for our next straight thing today, it's not really a thing. This is a next straight idea, okay? Okay. I, one of the things that I connect so much with Hannah on is that her major sensitivity and her, she has incredible sounderies. Sounds are important to her. She has offered me strategies about how when Abby sneezes loudly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I can be startled because there's no way I can not be startled. I will always be startled. But Hannah described for me a way that I can decide in my own self what's next after the startle. I don't have to become furious after the startle. I didn't know that. Sister-in-law. I didn't know that. Like she told me that when Abby sneezes. Okay, so let's play this out. Okay. Here I go. Okay, sneeze.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Achoo. Okay, well, that's not how it sounds. It's not the way it sounds.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
It is. It's like an alarm has gone off in our home. So let's say I'm doing the dishes or something. And that sneeze happens out of the blue. And I immediately sneeze. My entire body reacts. My body freaks out. I am startled. You go into freeze. I am startled.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Hannah taught me after that, I can just go with it. I'm startled. Oh, I'm startled. Oh, like there's an energy of startled can just go to like, I'm on a roller coaster. Like I don't have to then become utterly furious that this thing has startled me. Oh, it's a transmutation of the energy. That's right. It's like, I can't control my startle, but I can control what happens after the startle.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I have no idea why I started to tell that story, but here's the next right idea. Okay. This is just one quote from Nanette, which daily I think about. Okay. And I just feel like it's very important for all of our pod squatters, many of whom are sensitive human beings. All of them are here. Okay. Listen, Hannah Gadsby says, when people say I'm too sensitive to
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I feel a bit like a nose being lectured by a fart. We're just going to leave that with you. Okay. Do not let farts tell you that you are too sensitive.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I think on my list of top five humans guests that I was dying to have on this show was right up there. Number eight. And that is her. Her name is Hannah freaking Gatsby. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I know I said it. I don't say fart. I don't say fart, but I'm saying fart, fart, fart, because it's so important to the message.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Amen. That's the next right thing. It's like what Hannah's mom said. I wish I had been your friend.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Meaning like, I wish I hadn't been a fixer of you. I wish I had just been a friend to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
All right. And the thing that she, her mom said, I thought the world wasn't going to change. So I thought I would have to change you. It's like we get so scared for our children and we bring to them the very fear of that we're afraid that the world will bring to them. We bring it to them. Sister, thank you for that. So good. We'll see you next week on We Can Do Hard Things. Love you guys.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Love you. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Okay. Hannah, your new book is so freaking wonderful. I love it. Abby knows I picked it up and then disappeared from my family for three days because I just thought it was so wonderful. I couldn't put it down. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Yeah. Cool. Yeah, it did. We'll get into that for sure. It did. I love the whole journey that you take us through with your mom. I love your mom. You love your mom. Everyone who reads your new book is going to love your mom. And when you were a kid, your mom was harassing you so relentlessly about some dirty glasses in your room that eventually you blew up, exploded, started cursing at her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And she was happy because she said, I just wanted you to feel. And then later she said, after you got your autism diagnosis- I think you were 30.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Right, her stand-up Netflix specials. And we talk about all kinds of beautiful things today, telling stories and parenting and especially neurodiversity, which I know, sister, you've been wanting to talk about on the pod for so long.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
She said, I thought there was a lot going on inside you. You were like a tin of baked beans and my tin opener wouldn't work on you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
So what was that like as a kid growing up as you without a diagnosis?
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today, we are having an absolutely beautiful conversation with the incomparable, brilliant, honest, funny, and absolutely wonderful Hannah Gadsby. I have been wanting to speak to Hannah Gadsby for so long, ever since I laughed and cried and raged my way through Nanette. And then after that with Douglas. Which are her stand-up specials.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
You talk about social situations, like social, and you describe it as thinking that everyone's just saying what they mean. Fix this for me. You think everyone's just saying what they mean and that's how you're operating, but you realize there's an undercurrent of things that people are communicating in ways that you're not picking up.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
So was it freeing? Was it freeing? Tell me about getting diagnosed. Did it feel like something had been wrong with you that you didn't understand and now it didn't feel wrong anymore? It felt like its own thing?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Okay, so when you find somebody who's in that top third and you get the friendship butterflies, what do you do to make the first move?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
In 2016, she established Hello Sunshine, a media brand that has changed the world for sure. Big time. And content company dedicated to female authorship and storytelling across all platforms and I'm going to calm down. Hello Sunshine is also home to Reese's Book Club and Reese's YA Book Club, which focuses on storytelling with women at the center.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I saw you do this recently. I saw her do it. We were at, we were in a little thing together and the woman who was running the workshop said, pair up, find a partner. Like people who say that, I just want to stick a fork in their eyeball. I just stood there for a second and Reese walked over to the person who was sitting by themselves and just grabbed her and said, I want to be a partner.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Just, I was like, yeah, of course she did. Okay, so you pretend like you're just jumping in the freezing cold pool to get through that initial resistance. Okay. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Okay, how do you know that someone... doesn't just want to be friends with you because you're famous.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Reese, every time I make a plan with someone and I'm getting better because I'm working on friendship, but I just feel like it's this game of chicken of who's going to cancel first. And I'm trying to wait it out. So the other person will cancel. So I get the moral high ground of not canceling, but I still don't have to go. It's that sweet spot, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah, for sure. We do. And that's what they do. That's what they do. Okay. So what is needed to maintain a friendship, Reese? Because I used to think you just find someone you love and you're like, you're my person and that's it. And then you just don't ever talk again. What is your friendship maintenance plan? What's required?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Hello Sunshine is now the cornerstone of a larger media company called Candle Media. Are you tired?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Have you ever had to end a friendship? Because this is Reese. I feel like one of the things that's scary about friendship is like for marriage. I know how to get divorced.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Please don't say that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
There's a pattern. There's a structure for breakup, but there's no structure for breakup for friendship. And sometimes friendships do need to end if they become unhealthy or they're all withdrawn, no deposit. Have you ever had to break up with a friend and how did you do it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And the clarity is a beautiful thing. Just the not drifting and being clear with people is a gift you can give them because it causes discomfort on your part in the moment, but less pain probably on the other part in the long run. Yeah. Because the slow fade is torturous.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Good times? Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That's right. The siloing was over.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That's so good to hear. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah. And after doing all of those fantastic movies, it would have been Certainly okay for you to be like, I've done what I'm going to do for you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That's the ugliness of it. They know that these people have dreams and they leverage it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
But then you changed the whole landscape for everybody. And we're going to get into that. But before all of that, before you exploded the planet with your existence, you were born in March of 1976. You and I were born two days apart. Wow. I know. We're both Aries. You may have seen it. That is really something. We both got pregnant in our early 20s and got married.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I've seen people's lives, actually. Like, I've gotten texts from people with pictures of their home.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That they got because of your book club. Like, I've actually seen that in real life happen. Thank you. For the pod squatters, like, it's such a different thing to be an actor, which is an incredible thing, but you're still, someone else is producing it. Someone else is controlling the story. Someone else is doing the whole thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And then to say, no, no, no, I want to be part of the creation of that. Like, how, Reese, how does, because we have the way that that boys club works when it's overt abuse. And then the unsiloing of women, which I think it's so cool. It's just like your mommy and me yoga class. It's like you were alone. And then friendship. I'm starting to understand why friendship has been so important to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
How does it manifest when now you're at the table? Because that's different. When you are trying to be now one of the power players, because I actually love the word power. I think when people like you get power, it's a very good thing. How does it manifest in your life now?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I do that too. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
We both had more babies, then got divorced. And now we are both remarried with blended families and careers. So I want to start with this question. What do you see as the difference between 23-year-old Reese and 46-year-old Reese? Hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
You go get them, babe. Okay. And you choose people. When you talk about, I didn't know I would be doing this, but I'm thinking about your mom. And when you were little and you had anxiety when you were little. Yeah. And I read somewhere that your mom, your mom's a nurse.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
She, back then, I know because we were going through mental health stuff at the same time, probably as teenagers, that mental health was so stigmatized back then. But your mom said, no, no, no, we don't ignore this. We go at things. We go at things. So that's in your blood, going at things, right? Would you say that? What are you going at right now?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And then I was like, hi, I'm Glennon. Yeah. Yeah. But didn't you put your arms up in the air? Yes, I did, Reese. I did lose my shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Do you feel that? Do you feel that a lotness, like too muchness? Because I have... I have a theory that everybody either thinks they're not enough or too much. Nobody, I've never met a woman who's like, yes, I believe I am the correct amount. What the hell is that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Oh my God. Of course you're the one.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Well, I want to be clear. I don't think any women are actually too much or not enough. I just think that's the structure we're given. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah. No woman is too much or not enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That's right. It's very convenient to decide that every woman is one or the other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I'm already thinking right now about the things during this hour I wish I didn't say. Like, that's all I do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
So you obviously played the iconic role of Elwoods. And because everyone, I mean, everybody knows Elle Woods, but because of Elle's beauty and popularity and femininity. From Legally Blonde. Right, from Legally Blonde. She was constantly assumed to be not smart enough, not serious enough, not powerful enough to be at the table she earned her way to. And I think about this a lot because-
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Misogyny is one of the most powerful forces in our world, in our country for sure. And there's a special slice of misogyny that's reserved inside of people for women who are very feminine. So do you, Reese Witherspoon, relate to Elwood's plight?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Enough is enough. Enough is enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
The entire year.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And also, Reese, that it's so important to have stories on television because those people in that jury saw you as a leader because they had seen you as a leader on television. We don't even know if they were wrong in some way. Just the images of women in power. They're like, Elle can do it. What?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Mm-hmm. And the way you tell the stories, because I think when I'm thinking about Elle and her rise to power, one of the most important parts of that story was her female friends in that story. I mean, like you and Selma Blair, who were supposed to hate each other and then came together. Or, you know, I'm taking the dog. Like all the friendships. We say that once a week.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Somebody comes into the kitchen, picks up honey and goes, I'm taking the dog.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
How much do we love Jennifer Kuhl?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
You've got these months where you're going to sit with yourself. Yes. It's so wise because if we don't get into the quiet, we don't get into creative mode. We're just in reactive mode, right? Yeah. Uncomfortable. What are you going to do? We always have a next right thing. So in these last couple minutes that we have together, what do you do during your downtime that is nourishing?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
for you because I love your friend that said she doesn't love you acting because that means she loves you for you. Right. She doesn't. It's so sweet. So like what is nourishing and life giving for Reese? Not like work Reese.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Wow. I love that. I love your mom. Just freaking love you and your mom.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Oh God. With that Reese Witherspoon, thank you for being even more you behind the scenes than you are in front of the scenes. You're just amazing. You're just a love bug. And thanks for being out there doing the hard things. Thanks for telling women's stories. Thanks for caring. Go be with your family. We're grateful for you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And the rest of you, don't forget this week when life gets hard, Reese says we can do hard things. Okay. We'll catch you back here soon. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I think that I believed in structure and institutions more than I do now. I was scared shitless too, Reese, and I was like, I have to get married. Yeah. I have to get married. I have to find a church. I have to do the structures to keep me safe. Even though looking back, I remember my ex-husband saying, I don't think we should get married. And I was like, prank caller, prank caller.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
We're just going to barrel through. So anyway, I think a 46 year old believes in myself more than institutions. And my 23 year old self was different. So those women in that yoga class that you clung to, what a great word, by the way, because we're not supposed to be needy, but we are all needy as shit. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
We're all so needy. We're oozing with need.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah. When we asked you if you would do this podcast, you said yes right away. I said, what do you want to talk about? And you said, actually, my husband and I were just talking last night about how I want to talk more about female friendships. So tell us why that is so important for you to talk about more in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Reese Witherspoon. is an award-winning actress, entrepreneur, producer, and New York Times bestselling author. She won an Academy Award for her portrayal of June Carter Cash in Walk the Line, which is one of my all-time favorite movies. And later nominated in that same category for, you may have heard it, Wild, in 2014, which she also produced.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I was going to say, if I had to pick one, because you're a helper, you want to help people, right? Yeah. I do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Well, it's exciting to me that I taught Reese something about friendship because what the pod squad needs to know is Reese is known as being a very good friend in the world. I don't want to say a friend expert. Like, I don't know if she'd teach a class about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
It's just that she, it feels to me like you have figured out how to maintain and show up over time and have friendship be a life-giving force in your life over time. Like you've nailed that. I hope so. Yeah. We should call one of my friends real quick. We did. We vetted you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Thoroughly. I'm joking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
So I want to ask you, Reese, some questions about friendship because I'm 46 now and I'm trying to figure out friendship right now. You know, I got sober. I became a mom. I haven't explored or figured out the life giving force of friendship yet. And I'm not beating myself up about it. It's just a new frontier for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Abby's like, dear God, spread the wealth.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Okay. So I'm going to ask you some questions, Reese, and I just want you to pretend like I'm an alien who's just landed on the planet and you're trying to explain friendship to me because that is in fact what's happening right now. What is friendship, Reese?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Reese, how do you identify a person that you want to be a friend? Like, Oh, isn't that interesting? Yeah. Because it's like, Romantic love is like different. It's like, oh, love filled with butterflies. Something's happening. Yeah. What's friendship butterflies?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Witherspoon also starred in beloved film Sweet Home Alabama. I love that so much. I know, Legally Blonde.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
an election, me, as well as award-winning television series, Big Little Lies, Little Fires Everywhere, and The Morning Show, which turned gay. Best moment of our life. Abby and I celebrated that moment on the couch like it was ours, like we wrote it. Yes, yes. And it was my first moment of gaydar. Remember, I saw it coming before you. You did, actually. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Learn more at capella.edu.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Every single girl to find out if she inside herself is hungry starts looking at her friend's faces. Okay. And then in some kind of wild, silent mental telepathy, all the girls elect a spokes girl silently somehow, because this braided girl in the corner looks over at me and she says, no, thank you. We're fine. You know that, right? You know that we're fine. We will find ourselves to death, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
We will starve to death. physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, we will starve to death and say, we're fine. Because that's what the world tells us to say, to smile and say, we're fine. So in that moment, I thought, oh, okay, that's right. That's how I forgot how to know what I need and want when I learned how to please, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Because in our culture, boys are often taught to look inside themselves and In every moment of uncertainty. And speak their need. And little girls are taught in every moment of uncertainty, which what is life if not just one endless moment of uncertainty, right? To look outside themselves. Not for desire, not for need, but for permission. For consensus. Yes. Yes. Right? So...
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
That's, it feels so frustrating because it's like, oh, it starts so early. But what's hopeful to me is that since you can see that conditioning happening as a process of looking outside of ourselves, that has to mean that there's a way to deprogram ourselves from that. If it can be done to us, we can undo it.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
It's so perfect. Think, wait, wait, just stop for a second. I know we need to move on, but like, think about that. Like put that scene in slow motion. Why does she get up from the table? She doesn't want to disturb her family. With her choking to death, right? She doesn't want to disturb her family. She doesn't want to- Be embarrassed. Be embarrassed, right? She doesn't want to cause a scene.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Let's invite them back to life with the promise that from here on out, we're going to take good care of them. Let's get started. Okay, sister, we are talking about self-care today and everybody has a different definition of what self-care is. So tell me what self-care means to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
She doesn't want, she's looking weird. When you're choking, I imagine you don't look pretty, right? So she excuses herself to have her needs, whatever needs she has met in the bathroom alone. And then she dies there and doesn't cause a scene. Right. And then she abandons her family completely. Right. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
So give us an example of that. What's an example of not getting your needs met in a proactive way? So you destroy yourself in a way of getting that need met.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
It's so interesting. It's like if you find yourself like a toddler defiantly getting what you need, like if you are a 45-year-old woman and you find yourself Well, I need – behaving like a toddler trying to get a need met, that's a sign that you're not getting that need met in a grown-up way that you actually have the right to do. Right. Right? Because you are a grown-up. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Let's talk about the ways – because when you think about self-care, this is one of the ways that I think about it. If I don't know what something means, I try to think of the opposite of it. Right? So if you're going to care for yourself – None of us know what that means. So what's the opposite of that? What's the opposite of caring for something? Abuse, neglect, abandonment, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Abuse, neglect, abandonment. If we are abusing ourselves, neglecting ourselves or abandoning ourselves, we know we're doing the opposite of self-care, right? And the tragedy of that is that it's, women are, little girls are trained to abandon their emotions, right? I mean, one way we definitely do not take care of ourselves is that we don't take care of our emotional lives, our emotional selves.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
We don't tend to our emotional selves. And that is because we are trained not to, right? I mean, I was a third grade teacher. I was also a small child that was a girl. So I know that I was constantly taught Smile, be accommodating, be pleasant, be pretty. Don't be angry. If you're mad at somebody, just be nice about it, right? Other people's comfort. Don't make her sad.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Other people's comfort is more important than yours, right? So don't hurt someone else's feelings, even if it means abandoning your own feelings or self. right? You have this, when you're a little girl, you have a certain amount of emotions you're allowed to feel. And they usually include pleasantness and gratefulness. Those ideas are feminine, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
But the ideas of anger and jealousy and sadness and envy and heartbreak, these are not, those are not for feeling. Those are unfeminine. Those are uncomfortable for the world for a little girl to show, right? And so we don't, we learn to We learn that if we feel angry or jealous or whatever, that those are not, that doesn't mean there's something wrong out there.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
That's not information for us to use. That means that there's something wrong with us.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And then we wonder why later we don't know how to tend to or care for those feelings inside of ourselves. In fact, we know. anger, envy, jealousy, heartbreak, All of these emotions are so important. They give us such good information about who we are and what our boundaries should be and what we're meant to do in life. I mean, I've learned to think of the comfortable emotions as just recess.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Those are just the breaks, like the uncomfortable emotions that hit us, that hit me. They might be uncomfortable, but those are the lessons. That's where I learned the most about who I am and what I'm meant to do. And for the first half of my life, I numbed. Well, let's talk about like, what do we do, right? When we don't deal with these uncomfortable emotions, like what does that look like?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
For me, it looked like allowing myself to be gaslit for my whole life, right? Like, no, you shouldn't be angry. That's weird. Like you're too emotional. You're too much. You're too whatever. Like that's not, that's a you problem, right? That's not a sign that something's wrong out here. That's a sign that something's wrong with you. I just over time felt like, oh, I'm crazy. It's not them.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
It's me. It's not the world. It's not the family. It's me. I have a problem. I need to go to therapy. God, I'm so desperate for women. I'm all for therapy. But also sometimes you don't need to go to therapy. You need to go to the polls. You need to go to the voting booth. You need to go to your dad and say the stuff you need to like. So that's why the refrain of untamed is you're not crazy.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
You're a goddamn cheetah. That's a very important thing for me is it's the resistance of the gaslighting of women constantly in their families, in the world that says your anger means you're crazy or your anger means there's something wrong with you. And often it just means there's something wrong. And it's just data.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
It's just helpful instead of just being like, I don't know. Shameful, helpful instead of shameful. Not shameful, envy, not shameful. Helpful, pointing us towards something that, a need that we need to meet in our own lives.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And P.S., that's just something we can teach people. That's just something we can teach children, that we can teach little girls, that we can actually... Okay, so we're going to wrap up this conversation with this. What I really feel like this constant abandonment of... our emotions. The result of it, the consequence of it is that we lose self-trust. Okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Because if we had a friend that came to us and every time she said, I'm in pain, we ran away. We grabbed the booze. We left. We said, I can't deal with this. And we ran. Or we buried it. We told her to bury it. We told her to numb it. We would not have any trust with that friend anymore, right? Because in her most vulnerable moment, we were constantly leaving.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And yet, in our own most vulnerable moments, we are always leaving ourselves. Every time that the vulnerable emotions like fear and envy and anger and heartbreak come to us, we bury it. We pretend it's not there. We deny it. We deflect it. We numb it out. Those are all forms of abandoning ourselves. And we learn over time that we are not people who will stay with us.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
that we are alone when things are hard, right? And when we stay with ourselves, we earn our own trust and we become women who know that we will stay with ourselves. We don't even need to keep panicking about whether other people will abandon us because we know we will never abandon ourselves.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
How do you do that? Okay, so... You mean if we're not going to just go the mental health crisis route?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
No, it's not just you. So if we're constantly looking outside of ourselves for what self-care is, first of all, that's so ironic, right? World, tell me what I need. But if we ask the world what we need, the world will always offer us commodified things. versions of that kind of help, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
So, all right. One of the things I think we can do to get even to the need is to learn to stop abandoning ourselves constantly, right? We have to figure out how do we stop abandoning ourselves constantly? Here's an idea. You know, sister, very well, my chart, my poster that I keep on my office wall that on one side has a list of what I call easy buttons.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And on the other half is a list of what I call reset buttons. Okay. So the easy buttons are things that I have historically done in my life to abandon myself. Okay. These are, you know, you remember those easy buttons from the Staples commercials where somebody would just hit this red button and you would just be transported out of our, your painful situation and be in this pain-free existence.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
So what I have learned over my life is that when I transport myself out of the pain, out of the, what Pema Chodron calls the hot lowliness of being human, that I miss all my transformation, right? That everything that I need to learn about my own needs, about myself and to become the next version of myself is inside the hot loneliness. How do I stay inside the hot loneliness?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Well, first of all, I don't abandon myself. Things on that side of the list are booze, binging, um, online shopping. I'm like thinking how to honest do I want to be on this list? I mean, I also, you know, just, just crazy online shopping. I mean, I don't even have to buy the thing. I could just pour stuff into my cart. It's so weird. It's so weird.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
One time Abby actually, she thought I wanted all this stuff in our cart and she, it was a terrible day. I was like, no, no, that's not stuff I want. That's just, what is it? I don't know. That's just my shitty percent per that's my shitty consolation prize. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Um, also I have this thing that's on the easy button, which is I have this like weird, if, if I, if I really want to abandon myself, but I can't, I have this thing where I just eat a ton of carbs and sugar and then go to sleep. It's like cereal or I don't know what it is, but it's like, I know that if I don't want to feel, I can just eat a ton of sugar. It'll make me so tired. I can go to sleep.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Anyway, those are the, those are the easy buttons. They help me abandon myself. They also are things that, I always feel worse after doing. I feel kind of better in the short term because I'm numb and then worse afterwards. That's how you know that it's an easy button. On the other side of the chart, I have my reset buttons. These are the things that help me stay with myself, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Not abandon myself. And it's so wild because they're all the most simple things on earth. Like drink a glass of water, take the dogs for a walk. take a break, read a chapter of a book. They're all the most simple, basic things, but they're little ways that help me believe that I can process things, that I can stay with things, that I don't have to run away. They're self-care.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
They're real self-care. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
The real, the hard thing about this is that real self-care is the hard things. Real self-care is being the Joan of Arc of your life. It's like looking at the battle that you need to fight in this and this and this and like going straight towards it. And then peace is the result of doing that hard thing. Right. It's, it's, it's,
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
listing all the ways that your needs are not getting met and one at a time dealing with it. Right. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
We should dedicate an entire episode to boys and how they're conditioned. But something really interesting happened when I told this story on a male podcast to a male podcast host. And he said, no, no, no, the boys aren't going inside themselves either. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, boys are trained to be certain and to be hungry. None of those boys was going inside themselves.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
The reason why you heard from them immediately is because their conditioning is every bit as strong as the girls and that they immediately knew they had to be hungry. They had to be loud. They had to be certain. In fact, some, I think in Liz Plank's book, she says that like in any given circumstance, little girls will eat less in front of their male peers than they need.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And little boys will eat more than what, because they're trying to meet a conception, right? So boys are trained just as severely as girls to abandon themselves, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Correct. So it's like, I must still feel alone and angry and lost because I just don't have enough candles and manicures.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Yeah. And it's so interesting how all the solutions that the world offers us that have to do with self-care are some kind of break from your life, some kind of escape from your life, right? Something that you do to get away from your life, as opposed to what you and I have found true self-carers, which is always like dealing with the hard thing in your life. Or making a life, right.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Yeah, the peace is like the reward for going through dealing with the hard thing. The peace is not a fake thing that you use to take a break from your life often.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Thank you. ,,,,,,, All right, what's the next right thing? What's our next right thing? I would like to suggest that we keep our next right thing simple here. We're going to think of some way during the day that we recognize our soul outside of our roles. What's something we could do each day? Well, we'll say there she is. I would love to hear those from PodSquad, by the way.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
What are those things? I also think for people who want extra credit, make your reset button an easy button list. Start thinking about what ways you abandon yourself and what little things that you can do to stay with yourself. That sound good? Sounds so good. Sounds so good.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Awesome. And this week, this week, when it feels really hard to care for yourself, you just keep telling yourself, we can do hard things. See you next week. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Mm-hmm. Well, I would say that that is an accurate description of the second half of my life, right? I mean, the first half of my life, I was a zero at self-care. I was an addict, which is the ultimate escape from life as opposed to dealing with life, right? So you think a candle is an escape from life. Imagine 79,000 drinks a day, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
That's what I was trying to do is just escape my life instead of deal with it, right? But this thing happens with people who allow themselves to break, right? So years and years of addiction led me to several rock bottom moments, which... Anybody, most people who have been to those places see them as this humongous blessing for many reasons.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
But the reason for me is that when you hit rock bottom, it's like, and surrender, and you're very lucky because you have resources around you who will help you at that moment. You enter these spaces, which might be AA, or it might be therapy, or it might be whatever it is you use in that moment to grasp onto, which teach you how to be human. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And I happen to love all that stuff, but that's not the self-care we're talking about today because that kind of self-care is It's like if the only way we ever cared for our car was to like shine the hood, right? There's a whole nother self we have that is on the inside that we ignore so often. And often the kind of self-care we're sold, which is just about the outer shell, is really more about...
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
This is a blessing of rock bottom that only people who have a break in their mental health receive because tragically we don't teach people how to be human. You know, we don't teach how, what yourself is and how you meet your needs so that you can live a good, solid life. I mean, I used to teach third grade and I used to think why I would sneak in these life lessons right into my morning meetings.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
But these recovery groups taught me how to human, right? Taught me how to, that I had these different selves that I'd been ignoring for decades. And they were my emotional self and they were my intuitive self and they were my mind and they, and how to slowly build a life that you don't have to constantly escape from because that's what recovery is, right? So the,
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
The beauty of allowing yourself to break and ask for help is that you learn how to be human. So there's that. And then there was this moment when I fell in love with Abby, when I really had to put all of that to the test, right? So I had this moment where I...
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Anybody who's read Untamed or listened to me do the 49,000 interviews about that knows that I had a real moment where I had to decide whether I was going to return to my broken marriage or whether I was really going to honor this self that kind of rose up and made itself known when I fell in love with Abby. And it didn't feel like a love decision.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Oh, should I go back to Craig or should I love Abby? Like that was not it. It was like, should I go back to my broken life where I'm slowly dying so that I don't rock the boat, so that I keep everyone else comfortable, so that I continue to honor everyone's expectations of me? Or do I break everybody's hearts, hurt my kids,
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
blow up my little on the outside perfect family so that I don't have to abandon myself again, right? Do I abandon everyone's expectations of me and honor myself or do I continue to honor everyone's expectations of me and abandon myself, right? It felt like a life or death situation for me. And as you know, I almost decided to go back to my broken life so that I didn't have to rock the boat.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
But I had this moment with Tish where I looked at her and I thought, oh my God, I'm staying in this marriage for her. But would I want this marriage for her? And if I would not want this marriage for my little girl, then why am I modeling bad love in an unbrave life and abandoning self and calling that good parenting? Calling that good parenting. And the reason for that was very clear.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Hi everybody, it's Glennon. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Thank you so much for coming back. Today we're talking about self-care. but we're going to talk about deep self-care, inner self-care. So much of the self-care we see sold to us everywhere is just about the care of our outer shell, right? It's self-care as manicures and skin cream and massage and all of that.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
The reason for that is that I was taught, trained, conditioned to believe that a good mother, that good parenting is abandoning yourself, right? It's just burying your needs, your dreams, your ambition, your true feelings, all of it, and calling that love. Yeah. Being a martyr.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And then we wonder why we don't know how to get our needs met, why we don't know who ourselves are. It's because it's not our fault. I mean, it's our responsibility to figure out, but it's not our fault. It's been held up to us as the epitome of womanhood is selflessness. Like, imagine that. Think about that. The way you succeed as a woman is to not have a self.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
That is just, I feel so strongly that in listening to women for so long that the way to speak to a woman is to appeal to her need to love well. Women want to love well. They want to love their people well. And I just have come to the idea that we cannot love our people well if we do not have a self. If you cannot say, I love you, if you don't even know who that I is, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And when we pass down this idea to our children or to our partners or to the world by how we live, that love is martyrdom. then it's just a brutal legacy to pass on. So that's when I really started realizing, oh, I see. When I abandon myself, I am also abandoning my children. When I abandon myself, I am also abandoning the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
When women abandon ourselves, we do not offer the gift of ourselves to our children, to our partners, to our world. And that is abandonment of everything else.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
other people's experience of us instead of our own experience in our own body, right? A lot of that kind of outer shell self-care feels more like meeting the world's needs for us than meeting our own needs. Okay. So today we're not talking about grooming or appearance maintenance.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Right. And when we bring our truest selves to the table, then we grant permission for everyone else in our lives to bring themselves to the table, which is all that we freaking need to do in life, right? Is to live who we are, free and true. And so to me, to get back to your question, this moment was when I realized, oh, self-care, is actually the best kind of others care, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
We cannot accept any life or work or relationship that is less true and beautiful than the one we want for our children or our people.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
That's correct.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Yeah, it's what we do. It's peacekeeping instead of peacemaking. Women are trained to be peacekeepers. I will not rock the boat. I will not challenge this idea that I should stay quiet and just serve my whole life. And so that keeps the peace, but it never makes real peace, right? Which peacemaking is challenging the status quo that keeps people quiet and hiding, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
We're talking about getting beneath the hood because there is an inside of us that needs care for many of us that desperately needs care. Today, we're going to talk about how to return to and care for that true, tender inner self that we've likely been abandoning forever. Let's wake up that inner self.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
Yeah. This is a moment when I was really searching for how I lost myself. I, as always, was looking out into the world for examples of this phenomenon. Chase was having a bunch of friends over to watch a movie. I stuck my head into the room and I said, is anybody hungry? I will never forget what happened next. All of the boys that were in the room
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
without taking their eyes off the television, they all said, yes. Okay. So you see what happened there, sister. They heard a question. They went inside their bodies. They got an answer. They said it on the outside. So they completely nailed this Q and A. All the girls did something completely different. Okay. So picture this. They're all silent at first. No one says a word, none of the girls.
We Can Do Hard Things
SELF CARE: How do we identify our real needs and finally get them met? (Best Of)
And then Every single girl in that room, I think there was about five, each took her eyes off the television and started looking where? You'll never guess. At each other. At each other's faces. Okay. So just pause right there. Pretend this is happening in slow motion because that's what it felt like.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So that's very helpful. And then you just hold yourself's hand during that time.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Hello world. World. World.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So one thing we have in common that I think is really fun is that, so you try to avoid, astrology just kept poking itself on your shoulder your whole life. But you were like, no, you say in the book, I want to do something respectable, which I find hilarious, right? So you kept trying to be respectable, didn't we all, for a while. And then one day you said you started writing.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
You just kind of gave into this astrology thing. You started a blog. You said not because I thought anyone would like my brand of astro political self-help, but because if I didn't channel everything that was awakening me, it would backfire on my system. So I just want you for all the pod squatters listening. Tell us what that means, because I felt that in my soul. That's why I started writing.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
I started a blog, too. I didn't think anyone would be interested, but I thought if I don't do this thing, I'm going to make myself crazy or sick because I feel like I have to, even though it won't matter. What did you mean by backfire on my system?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Chani Nicholas is a Los Angeles-based New York Times bestselling author of You Were Born for This, Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance. She has been a counseling astrologer for more than 20 years, guiding her community of over 1 million monthly readers to discover and live out their life's purpose through understanding their birth chart.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Because it felt really good. It felt really good.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Keep showing up to the thing that has energy. Jenny, what the hell is astropolitical self-help?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Got to get into this.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Chani runs her company with her wife and business partner, Sonia Posse, who Abby and I got to have dinner with and absolutely adore. Together, they launched the Chani app, which offers a personalized daily understanding of their birth chart.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
From Chani. Hi, Chani. Hi, Chani. Hi.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
We're so thrilled. Ever since we got to have dinner with you all, we've just been waiting for this day. Thanks for joining us. I have to tell you, when I picked up your book, I loved how you wrote about your life so much. I was excited to get to the astrology stuff. But the way that you describe how you came. to astrology I thought was so beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. And the stars. Today, my yoga instructor said this. She said we were in Shavasanan, which is like this nap you take at the end of yoga, which is the best part of yoga. Did you say Shavasanan? Listen, I don't care. All right. It's just a long word and it's a nap. I think she said Shavasanan.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
It is an and both because God help me. We need people who are self-aware and emotionally intelligent and like are working on their own self-healing. Who show up for world healing too. Yeah. You can't have self-healing without world healing, but I also feel like you need a little bit of self-awareness before you get to the world healing also.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So let's talk about this because I wanted to figure out how do we do this in a way where everyone who's listening gets a little bit of, okay, I'm this, and we're doing sun signs. I'm learning, Chani. I'm learning. We're going to do our sun signs. We're not going to do our rising signs or our moon signs or our houses. I'm learning.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
I mean, I might allude to like- You can do whatever the hell you want. I'm just trying to prove that I know words.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Well, Glennon, what is a sun sign? The sign- That the sun was in when you were born. Well, what does it mean? What's the symbolism? It's your big sign. It's your major sign. You know what? Let's let Chani do this. How about that?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
And then I'm hoping, Chani, that for each sign, that we have something that that sign can do to take care of their own healing and something that that sign might be excellent at contributing to the world's healing.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So what does that mean? What does it mean to be dysregulated? And Chani, how do you appear when you're dysregulated?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Everyone is against me.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
That's for damn sure.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So that's how you know you're dysregulated. And then what do you do to regulate?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So do you mind telling us a little bit about your childhood? Because that's what leads you to the moment where astrology reaches into your life. So tell me about your childhood, which if you're like everyone else was like super simple and easy peasy.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
It's everything. Because then you're just perpetuating harm in that moment. It's like, really, the difference between war and peace is often five seconds.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Okay, so let's figure out all of these sweet signs and what helping themselves might look like or what dysregulation might look like or whatever the hell you want to do. And then also the activism. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
All the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Just found out. Told you a channel. Just found out I was an Aries a couple months ago.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So I always say, just be critical of others, not self. Because I have a Virgo rising. So I just make sure only outward.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Wow. Chani, you're doing good things in a good way in the world. For real. I mean, I just think about that little girl you were who somebody reached out and saw you. And now you are reaching out and seeing everyone, like millions of people. And they're feeling seen. And they're not just feeling seen. They're activating in the world once they figure out their own worth and their own gifts.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
And you take a nap and that's what they should do the whole time and everyone would go to yoga, but it's just at the end. And my instructor said, We can do hard things, but we don't have to be hard while we do them. Oh, look at that.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
And it's just a freaking wonderful experience. reaction in the world that you're creating. It's really cool to witness.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Chani, tell everybody, can you just actually tell people how to get your app? Cause I think it's really cool. You go to your app.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Go to your app store.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
in conversation that's cool so check out hearing us yeah it's like yeah talking yeah all right well for the rest of you go check out your birth charts figure out something you can do to heal yourself something you can do to heal the world and we will catch you back here next time on we can do hard things see you soon bye
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
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What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
spotify odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow this is the most important thing for the pod while you're there if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend we would be so grateful we appreciate you very much
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
She gave you an outline, like a boundary between you and everything. Because you use the word distinguish over and over again. So basically you're like, okay, I might be with these people, but I am not these people. I am my own thing to be seen. Wow.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
I know. So anyway, today's super, super exciting. Here's the deal. We at this podcast are astrologically curious. Yes, we are. We would call ourselves astrologically curious. We also are all sort of, well, maybe you're not skeptical. You're not a skeptic, Abby. I would say sister and I, everything. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Am I sensitive or are you just a bunch of assholes is what I've been asking my entire effing life.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Before we get into that, can you tell me how being judgmental saved you? I just really loved that part where you were excited about being called judgmental because I am very judgmental. And if you could just frame it in a way that is positive. Yeah. And that works for you.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
I don't want to be judged for my judgment.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
So if you could just go ahead and tell us what you mean by that.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Yeah. She believes in most things she just said. Okay. So there you have it. Like if you believe in it. Including ghosts. Yeah. All the things. I believe in everything, a teeny bit and nothing all the way. That's my rule after coming from some fundamentalist shit in my life. Also, when it comes to astrology, I've always had this like teeny, teeny bias that it's woo-woo and not gritty.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
That's great. The things that happened to me were not about me. Dang.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
It's like all about self-discovery and not about the world. Like it's all about self and not others. Then all of these people in my life started saying, I hear that you must look in to this woman, Chani Nicholas. Yes. She's going to fix your problem with astrology. So we have Chani today. I am so excited about this day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Okay, PodSquad, this is your last call to sign up for the newsletter that we're calling A Little Treat before the big announcement comes tomorrow. Big announcement, huge, including early access information that you do not want to miss. So if you haven't signed up yet, just do it now. Please do not get upset with us when things fill up quickly because they do and then you get sad.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
And isn't that part of how the witch trials started, looking for women who were using herbs to control?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Foundation for Women, the Free to Be Foundation, and the Women's Media Center in the United States. Although she wants us to be linked and not ranked, it's true that she is widely regarded as the iconic leader of the second wave feminist movement. She has spent decades traveling in this and other countries as an organizer and a listener.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
so the PR hasn't changed much no I'm dying to ask you about this so something I'm constantly learning is that one can be a feminist who is white and not be a white feminist because white feminism is a brand of feminism that seeks more proximity to hierarchical power instead of the destruction of hierarchy altogether so if Patriarchy is a ladder white feminism identifies up instead of down.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
And white feminism is just forever abandoning folks. It helps white women kind of sneak in the door.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So what is the kind of, quote, feminism? So examples, Betty Friedan in the 60s insisting that feminism, at first, move on without lesbians. Or like right now, one of the examples that I would think of is the TERFs insisting that feminism shut the door on trans women. So it seems like it's mostly related to when white women run things. But what is that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
If it's not feminism, it seems to be there's a taste of that that is tricking people into thinking it's feminism. What is it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So we have a lot of theories, but why, Gloria, do you believe that so many of us white women are still voting with the patriarchy?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
She is particularly interested in the shared origins of sex and race caste systems, gender roles, and child abuse as roots of violence, in nonviolent conflict resolution in the wisdom of indigenous cultures, and in organizing across boundaries for peace and justice. In 2013, she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Barack Obama.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
It takes all approaches, doesn't it? Oh my gosh. But it's so true what you're saying. It's like a fake vote almost. Even Gloria just said that we need to extend choice, expand choice for voting. Like she's applying the word choice for voting because if you believe your only security is in the fact that your husband stays in power, do you feel that you have a choice?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
It is interesting. I was reading the poem that Alice Walker wrote about you called She. And there's this one stanza that says you make activism irresistible because you yourself are irresistible. And that makes me think about what you're saying, that we have to create a movement that looks and feels like what we actually want.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So that there's another place to go other than these shitty consolation prizes, which are unequal structures.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Because the pictures of you laughing, it makes me ache. That's what we want. We want to be in powerful places with women who are laughing. Like that's, I don't know how else to say it other than I feel the yearning come up when I see you doing that with your sisters. And that's the alternative to this other thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
And in 2019, she received the Freedom Award from the National Civil Rights Museum. She lives in New York City and in the DNA of every woman who is trying to give birth to a movement or to herself. Welcome, Gloria. Thank you for doing so many hard things with such tenacity and wisdom and humor and, most importantly, with the refusal to leave anyone behind.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
You are a nightmare. You're a nightmare.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Yes. So this makes me think of screwing up in public. I have had low so many turtle moments, Gloria, even though I've read everything you've written, still had some turtle moments.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
A lot of us are afraid to step up and speak out because we know that it's not a matter of if, but when we're going to fuck up and get our asses handed to us. So I myself have deservedly had my ass handed to me many times. One of the things that makes me so heartened is when I read that you call yourself thin-skinned.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
And this thing that Flo Kennedy said to you blew my mind, and I've been wanting to ask you about it. She once said to you after a public ass-kicking, she said the ass-kickings are to keep your ass sensitive. Hmm. I just my heart exploded when I read that sentence. But can you explain to us what you believe she meant by that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I always think about my friend, Dr. Yaba Blay, who's an unbelievable speaker, lecturer, teacher. And she always says, if I'm correcting you, it's because I believe I'm not wasting my breath with you. It's an honor to be corrected by me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Do you think that sensitivity and thin skinness is a, a plus in this sort of work as opposed to a negative?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
That's practical and logistical to me because whenever I get in my turtle situations, it's because I've gone rogue. I've gone rogue. And I should be unturtled. But when you move with a group of people, any criticism that comes is to the movement because you have not moved alone. So it's less...
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Oh my goodness. So we would love to begin where it all began with Ruth, your mother. You knew your mother as a woman whose life was ruled by her mental illness. And by the age of 10, in fact, you were her caretaker. And later on, you learned that she was a pioneering journalist with huge ambitions and a man she loved, both of which she never pursued.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Yes. I love, Gloria, you said, we've begun to raise our daughters more like sons. but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I love that it's framed as men just being wholly human, not a punishment. It's always framed as like a punishment, but actually it's an invitation to the full human experience.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
We're working our way out of it. That's the thing that makes all of this so tricky in talking about gender equality and is that gender is not real. It makes it all tricky.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
In Ruth's song, which I reread all the time, you said of her, I miss her, but perhaps no more in death than I did in life. Oh, does that line speak to so much. Can you tell us what you meant by that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I just wanted to say thank you for fighting so hard to keep lesbians in the women's movement. Thanks for that. What do you see now as most important? Like, what are you waking up every day seeing as your first priority in terms of the continued movement?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Is that why lesbians piss off the patriarchy so much? Because we're having sex that's not based in just reproduction?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So please do it now so you won't be sad tomorrow. Here's how to sign up. Of course, I will never sell, give away, or do whatever people do with emails. Your inbox is safe with me. Go to glennandola.com and you'll see a signup box right at the top of the page. Just pop in your email and you're in. If you're on Instagram, head to my page, click the link in bio and tap sign up for newsletter.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Yeah, because that's a challenge. It's a challenge to... not react.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I read one of your partners said, I think if you don't know how to do it, just close your eyes and imagine you're sharing your home with another woman. How do you divide up the jobs? Yeah. And then do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So good. I remember you saying that your grandmother was a public feminist and a private isolationist because it is possible. To be believing one thing on the outside, but then still recreating. What did you mean by that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
We did it, everybody. Okay, y'all. We can do hard things. We'll see you back here next time. This week, go give birth to your damn self. Bye. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Yeah. And I love this part of, I think it's an on the road. When you said, why didn't you continue the ambition, go with that man who you were truly in love with? What did she said? You, well, then you wouldn't have been born. Yes. It's hard to argue with that. Yeah. But in your mind, you did argue.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
It's the second button. Enter your email and you're all set. Easy peasy. I can't wait to share this big, exciting secret I've been keeping. With you on Monday. I will see you in your inbox. Today on We Can Do Hard Things, we are speaking with and mostly listening to Gloria Steinem. Gloria Steinem is Gloria Steinem.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Right? I can't stop thinking about the laughter as proof of freedom because, Gloria, one of the things that makes me so furious about myself is when I giggle. Like it's compulsory at something a man says that isn't funny. It's like I'm in the middle of this mandatory scripted, like it's my job in any public square to reward a man for mediocrity or bullshit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
The other evening I was at dinner with the guy and it was a work thing. So there was a power differential and I couldn't say what I wanted to say. I really couldn't in that moment because there were other people there, but I swore to myself, what I'm not going to do is laugh. I'm not going to laugh at any of the things he says and then expects me to laugh. And Gloria, it felt like a war.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
He would talk and then I would refuse to giggle. And then he looked confused and then furious. And then once he said something so arrogant that I actually burst into laughter and he looked like he wanted to kill me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Fake laughter, right? Like, it felt like the bravest thing in the world. I felt like I am a warrior of non-laughter. And then Gloria, I think about like Christine Blasey Ford, when she's talking about the laughter of the men, when she testified and she said, what is indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
There's something about laughter that is so fraught with power and I guess proof of freedom.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Yes. I realized that with Tish. I was at the grocery store with my daughter, and some dude said something that was really dumb, and I giggled. And Tish looked at me as if I had betrayed the earth. And I had. Yeah. Well, that's great. How old is she? She is now 16, but she's been fighting the fight since she was about three.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
She is a writer, lecturer, political activist, feminist organizer, and lifelong listener. She is the author of The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Piss You Off, My Life on the Road, Moving Beyond Words, Revolution from Within, and Outrageous Acts in Everyday Rebellions. And a founder of New York Magazine, Ms. Magazine, the National Women's Political Caucus, the Ms.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
That look, that look of betrayal, yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Yeah. I think I was telling my sister when we had read something that you wrote about laughter and I was telling her that The thing that makes me the saddest that my mom does is giggle when she should. That's whoever who has said the thing. And the thing that makes me most joyful is when my mom laughs from her belly and it looks ridiculous.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Snorting. And it's when I see my mom the most free. And it is often when she's with her sisters or her grandkids. And yeah, I guess it has to do with
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
So is splitting playing a role then? Is splitting like, I am a girl, so I act this way. You are a boy, so you act this way. I am a Christian, so I believe these things. You are a whatever. Is it identity roles?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Damn. So a woman who has squashed her own ambition says to another woman, I just don't like the way something about her. Or a man who has hidden all of his femininity and homosexual whatever is the one who teases the other person about their gayness. Is this what we're saying? Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
The calmness, I would just love to start out with, because it makes me think of this part of, I read in My Grandmother's Hands by Resmaa Manakem, where he says something like, they think they're coming to me for answers, but they really come to sit with someone who has a settled nervous system. Does that ring any bell with you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
What is a paradoxical intervention and how does a couple do one on themselves?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Hmm. That's so interesting. Do you feel that the new or a new version of toxic masculinity is passivity? Because I'm just, I do feel that way. Yeah. I'm just, I think we're all looking for toxicity in the wrong place. I don't think it's too obvious. It has morphed from the yelling and the screaming.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Well, So one of the, you're not like me with what I just did. I just split. Yeah. Is that why you're such a good listener? Are you always avoiding splitting? Because sometimes when I watch you do the show and I think clearly she's going to tell that guy that he's a jackass. Like clearly that's the next thing to do. And you just have this way of double down, get deeper, deeper, deeper.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
And you, is that what you're doing? You're resisting- judgment? What are you doing?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Beautiful. Would it be okay with you if we played some questions from our pod squad that they sent in for you? Sure. Wonderful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Let's hear the first one. I could just listen to her talk all the days.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Ah. Oh, that's interesting. The show, it takes these fussy people. We're all fussy. We're fussy as hell. And then they sit and they wait in that little hallway, which is like the purgatory, the fussy purgatory.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
The canal, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
The canal. And then they're birthed into your room and the room, it's so, it's a womb. Yeah. Yeah. pup and the little dog bed and the colors in there and your soft sweaters. I love this description. It's so beautiful. I mean, and we feel it when we watch, right? Yeah. It's like we finish our fussy day and our fussy arguments.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
And then when we turn it on, when we get to your room in the hallway, we're stressed because they're still fussing. Yeah. Those couples are still fussing. And that's why they have all those like in the hallway, they have the little puzzles.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
So they can stop bitching at each other and they can just focus on their puzzles. And then there's some magic that happens in that room. So therapy can be expensive and hard to access, right? Yes. Let's say you had several minutes with millions of people who are listening and would love some of that womb in their own fussy houses.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
What would you say to them that might be most helpful to people trying to figure out How would you democratize therapy in a few minutes?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
in gender and sexuality her writing centers on the intersection of psychoanalysis dissociation and cultural studies she has completed the filming of four seasons of the docu-series couples therapy airing on showtime oh my god that's my favorite i know abby and i watch just wrapped wrapped. We love the show. We love the couples on the show and how they work things out or don't.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
We always end with a teeny segment called The Next Right Thing, which is just one little thing that if people don't try anything else that they can do. And even though it's called We Can Do Hard Things, we like for this to be an easy thing. Is there some way to operationalize the embracing of otherness? Like what does that look like or sound like in a relationship?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Because it sounds like that's the main thing that we have to forget the complete me and celebrate the otherness that relationships insist we celebrate. How do we do that? What do we say? What do we stop doing? What do we do today?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
I believe that shit. That's good. We love you, Dr. Orna. After this, can you send me an email about where you get your sweaters and scarves? And are you taking new clients? Right. All the answers to my Google searches. That would be great.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
You're wonderful. Thank you for your show. I actually think, well, you know this, but it's making a big difference for so many people who can't get to therapy, but need your brilliance. So thank you for making that show. Everybody, you can catch it on Showtime Couples Therapy. It's a good time. All right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
We can do hard things like operationalize otherness and consider other people's annoyances as the thorn from which our growth will come.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
That's what we tend to do to people. And we will see you back here. We can do hard things. Bye. Okay. Bye-bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
That's interesting. So we need to become more political system, less evangelists for our own way. Love it. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
A third way. We just need a Disney movie. We need a Disney movie where the princess set meets her princess, other princess, and then says, now we negotiate our political system of otherness instead of you complete me. Happily ever after, right? She needs to sit down with Dr. Orna. Dr. Orna needs to come in after the wedding and sit down with Nico and negotiate the otherness. That's good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Okay, go ahead. I think before the wedding.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today, we have a very special, to us, to Abby and me, and to a lot of the world, Dr. Orna Guralnik. She is a psychoanalyst and writer who serves on the faculty of NYU Postdoc, National Institute for the Psychotherapies, the Stephen Mitchell Center, and the Editorial Boards of Psychoanalytic Dialogues and Studies.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
And we truly are enamored with you. Yes. And I know that a lot of people have become enamored with you and it's a very interesting phenomenon. And I know that's not what you're most comfortable with. You're there to show the work. True.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
What is the fear of otherness? Dang, start with a big doozy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
True. Yes. But before we start, I do need to tell you that Abby just found the things that I have Googled about you. Okay. I have Googled, what kind of dog does Orna have? Does Orna take new clients? Where are Orna's sweaters from? Where do I get Orna's scarves? Articles about how Orna listens like that. And how is Orna so calm? I'm speechless. Yeah. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And how do you deal with marriage boundaries? I'm somebody who wants the lights turned off at 6 p.m. I'm not really, but like. But my partner would like to see after 6 p.m. So I say what makes me feel safe and warm and taken care of is to have the lights out. And my partner says what makes me feel safe and warm is to not have the lights out. How do you negotiate to married people's boundaries?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Because the Venn diagram of boundaries is something that we're constantly.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
What's happening? You just saved our marriage. You just solved a pretty big marital. This is why Lovey was like, you will talk to Nedra. You will talk to Nedra, Lennon Doyle. Okay, because what you are saying is the opposite of, like, codependence and control.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
It's not me and Abby sitting in a room discussing lightness and darkness until we die. It's remembering there are separate rooms in our house. And it's not me going upstairs and saying, this is insane how loud this TV is. it's like going to my special spot.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
It's first knowing what you need and then learning how to express it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. I just want you all pod squatters to know that you just missed a scintillating conversation between the three of us where I asked everyone to please watch their facial expressions on the pod because my listening face is... What is it? It's so weird. It's different.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah, you can watch with me. I like to talk about people's sisters and their dogs and what they've overcome. Not so much about goals.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
What are the reasons why we don't know what we need? Like, why do we not grow up with healthy boundaries? Why, Nedra, why is everybody freaking figuring this out when they're 45 years old? Yes. It just seems so basic. Like we should learn as human beings what we individually need and then learn how to communicate it. So why is it a crisis in our midlife? Hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yes. It's special. And I it's because I'm concentrating really hard. I know it's because I'm really. But and by the way, I my whole life I thought, oh, my eye just squints. But really, my eyes are two different sizes. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
No way. Yeah, they are.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
We want to be liked more than we want to get what we need. Because isn't it true, Nedra, that it's the knowing of the need, which I love what you said. If you want to know what you need, think about what makes you uncomfortable. That's why we miss it too, because we're taught not to be uncomfortable. So instead of interrogating discomfort, we just numb it, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So if we sit with our anxiety or our anger, we figure out then that might be pointing to a need. Then we have to figure out how to communicate it. And then we have to deal with the after. The after is way worse because then people have a reaction.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So do you get that from people where they set a boundary, but then the hardest part is the keeping of the boundary and the dealing with other people's discomfort after? What are the strategies for dealing with the after of setting a boundary?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Let me check it in the mirror. Oh, same, same. Well, you know, sister about the person at a signing line. When I took a, I take all the pictures with people and one lady waited for a whole nother hour to come back and say, do you think we could take another picture? Your eyes look like they're two different sizes in my picture. And I was like, that's just what I look like. Sorry, can't help you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And so I think it brings people closer. The kids' parents that I respect the most who are friends with my kids are the parents who do the really awkward thing and, like, reach out to me and are like, do you have any guns in the house? And are they locked up? My kid can go to their house anytime. But that's scary to do. Mm-hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I feel like we talk so much about boundaries with other people, and we're going to get to that. All of our questions from Podsquatters are about other people. But can you talk a little bit about what you mean about boundaries with self?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Actually, you wear them to work out and you wear them out to dinner. That is true.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah. What's one of your self boundaries? Because you said even a morning routine is a self boundary. It's a way that you feel that honors yourself and brings you peace. And it feels like that would be a good way for people to start if it's too scary to make boundaries with other people first. What's one of your self boundaries that helps bring you peace and honor?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So super excited to talk today with an expert about boundaries. And I want to tell you how we found this amazing person. So I was a while back talking to our dear, beloved Lovie Ajayi-Jones. We were just having a conversation about- Speaking of fix your face, she's the one who taught us to fix our face.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Did you hear that, Podsquatters? Use the phone when you want to use the phone. Okay? The tyranny. The tyranny of the text. It's carrying a little teeny dictator in your pocket all day that can tell you what to do every second.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I haven't imagined. I haven't imagined for you. Well, as a recovering addict. Okay. So I think just having worked with lots of addicts and like in this world for a long time, I think that there is unconditional love for kids. Often. Often. But I think that love is defined differently. It's not unconditional access or it's not unconditional relationship.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Even if my kids did horrific, horrible things and became like Republicans. Oh my God. I thought you were going to say murderers. No, I could deal with that. I feel like I would always love them, but we might have some serious conditions about access and relationship and all of that. That's good. Right? But a feeling of deep, deep love and angst and yearning would always be there no matter what.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
That's right. That's right. Lovie, I would be doing speaking engagements with her and I'd be on stage. we were speaking with a group. And so we would always sit next to each other and get in trouble together. But if somebody was speaking and I didn't like what they were saying, I just have no poker face. And there was a huge screen behind us. So my, they would be speaking.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And they don't have to, people. You do not have to love your boyfriend unconditionally. You don't know. In fact, you should not, actually. You should not. Definitely not. That's a recipe for being treated like shit and calling it honorable.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Absolutely. Okay. Let's hear from our first pod squatter. That's what women have. Unconditional obligations. All right. Let's hear from Delaney.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And then my face would be on the screen with like this huge, what the fuck face. So So anyway, I'm talking to Levy and I'm telling her my boundaries predicament. And my boundaries predicament is that I lived the first half of my life with no boundaries and I hated myself. And so now I overcorrected and I live my life with so many boundaries that I hate everyone else. So-
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
It's gentle. I like that approach. We don't hear about that a lot. It's always so dramatic these days. You have to say the things, but you're so right, Nedra. It's just our perspective on them. We do so much, I have to tell the truth, but it's always just our truth. It's not the truth. Cool.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And you wear them under suits and you wear them to bed.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I would like to find balance, boundary balance. So Levy suggested Nedra Glover to Wab. So we are going to have Nedra on the pod today to talk about boundary balance. And also what are you hoping to talk about today, Sissy?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And Nedra, that could work or? Or it could be that those parents are like, but the thing is you're in my basement. So, I mean, there are exchanges where it's like maybe you are trading some freedom. You're actually on other people's bounds. Yeah. Trying to make boundaries. Tricky. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah. I think this is going to be an ongoing conversation of negotiation because especially with the economy now, I mean, I just read that 30% of all Gen Zers are living with their parents. It might have to be a conversation that's bigger. It's almost like I'm not living with my parents. We have communal living now, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
But if you have communal living, that means all kinds of different contributions. So a boundary conversation might go both ways in that situation. Like if you're coming to us with your boundaries, you also better be coming to us with your paycheck sort of situation. A portion of it. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Okay, let's hear from Deanna.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And that's sexy. Having a self is sexy. That is the sexiest thing, Deanna. It's like... If you're going to say, I love you, there has to be an I and there has to be a you. Right. It's like in the beginning, there's no I or you, which means it's not even love. It's being on drugs. It's being on drugs. It's so wild. Right. The I and the you are the real thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Well, and you would have been so proud of us. A year ago, we stood on the beach and argued because I wanted to walk. on the beach and Abby wanted to sit on the beach. So we had a very long argument about whether we would walk or we would sit. And it took us a half an hour to figure out, oh, I can walk and she can sit.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Well, every time I'm locked in the closet, hiding from the, I'm going to call Nedra from the closet. Closet to closet communication. The last question is from Kathleen with whom I am obsessed. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Nadja, Kathleen wants to know, what the fuck does that mean?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And if somebody comes back with passive aggressive, because bless all of our hearts, that's all we've learned. Nobody taught us how to be assertive. We just, when we're pissed, we just say something shitty. And then like, so, so when. Or the silent treatment.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So when our friend Kathleen, when her husband is doing the passive aggressive thing and is saying, oh, it's like you have your own schedule. How do we respond to passive aggressiveness in a way that actually helps us get to the root of something as opposed to just. playing a ping pong game of passive aggressiveness?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah. Everything that you teach is, it starts with the foundation of believing that you are worthy of having it. Because I think the reason why I do the 40-minute presentation, like I'm a lawyer, like I'm preparing a case, is because somewhere I believe I need to have a case prepared. Because I have to prove that I'm worthy of having needs.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So what if we just all started with the actual definition of being a human being, which is that we will all have needs. So everyone is worthy of having needs. Everyone is needy.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Let's end with that. Yes. That is the best metaphor I could imagine.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
That is pork-free if we just effing ask. Yes. And we say, I am needy. Yes. Because people who pretend they're not needy are bitter people. That's right. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah, of course you did, because you get to watch your freaking TV. The repercussions of this conversation, Nedra, are many. So... We appreciate you. Thank you for teaching people how to have healthy relationships through boundaries. It's really beautiful work you're doing. You're welcome.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
For the rest of you, figure out who you're in a relationship with this week that only allows your people-pleasing self. That sentence got to me. It's an interesting question. And also start your sentences with, I need, I want, I expect, I prefer, the end. And we'll see you next week.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
It's a hard thing worth sharing. Okay. Excellent. Let's go ask these things of our expert. Nedra Glover-Tawwab is a licensed therapist and sought-after relationship expert. She is the author of the New York Times bestseller, Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and the forthcoming book, Drama Free. Hell yes. Available 3-7-2023. That's amazing.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Nedra is also the founder and owner of the group therapy practice Kaleidoscope Counseling, which helps people create healthy relationships. Her philosophy is that a lack of boundaries and assertiveness underlie most relationship issues. And her gift is helping people create healthy relationships with themselves and others. Nedra, welcome.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Okay, perfect. Nedra, this is my sister. This is my wife, Abby.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So what are the ways that people come to you feeling? They walk into you, you said burnout is one. How does burnout manifest? And like, what other feelings are they having that they don't even know are a result of not having boundaries?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So how do you define boundaries? So if somebody's feeling this way, somebody comes to you, they're anxious, they're depressed, they're burnt out, they're feeling apathetic or resentful. You as a therapist go, okay, there's boundary issues here. When you say that, what do you mean? Like, what is a boundary? How do you define it?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I love that because also when we say boundary, it makes it sound like we're building a fortress around ourselves and that kind of feels scary and negative and aggressive. So, so you think of in terms of, oh, you just don't know how to get what you need yet. Right. Is that what you're saying? Like you haven't figured out how to say or believe that you even are worthy of getting what you need.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Mm hmm. Ooh, I like that example. What are some weird ones like that, that people... I feel like I'm about a weird boundary person.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Because a highly sensitive person might be somebody who has more... Didn't you say at some point that boundaries are like the instructions you gave the babysitter watching your newborn? Absolutely. You're the newborn.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I used to... leave my parents the directions that they had to read Goodnight Moon. And then I'd put little index cards in between the pages so I could make sure that they did it because I would see if they were gone or not. Now that...
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Okay, go ahead. Say it how you want to say it. Welcome, everybody. Welcome back, everybody. We Can Do Hard Things podcast. Good job, babe. That was really good. I should let you do it more.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
In Save Yourself, you said, somewhere around the same time that my internal shame alarm started going off, I started leading a double life. I joked instead of crying. I shoved my pain way down and put a joke on top, getting funnier and funnier by the minute. And then you say 11 was the age my self-hatred became. How do I say that word? Sentient. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I wrote down on my notes, Glennon became bulimic. Abby became a soccer star. Cameron became funny. It's like, yeah, it's that idea that from eight to 12. Cultural scientists tell us like that's the age where you start to really internalize your formal indoctrination and you start to like split and you become something to survive. Do you feel like that's what happened to you? You became...
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Funny to survive? 100%, yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Cameron started doing Cameron's set. And you'll remember this night, I actually peed in my pants on the stage.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yes. So, I could not... Real pee on a couch in front of 3,000 people. I wonder how that must feel for Cameron. It was terrifying. And then I had to figure out, like, what am I going to do? Am I just going to carry on, which I did. And I know it sounds weird, but it doesn't sound weird to people who have had babies. It just happens. Yeah. On trampolines when Cameron's around.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's how we started trying to be friends with each other. I wanted to talk about this. I think it's so important. It was like you and I figured out that like, oh, we just take our trauma and pain and then we spin it up and then we serve it to lots of people. But we don't do the middle step, which other human beings do, which is talk about it with other human beings and have actual friends. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
We just perform it. And so we were trying to be like, you recently reached out to me and said, I'm having feelings and I would like to talk to you about it instead of the internet. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was the text.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's right. Ugh is correct. I just want to say this thing because I think it's, Abby and I were laughing so hard on the street last night. We were walking home from dinner. So that text, Cameron told me some of the feelings she was having.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I wrote back and said, I don't want to be the annoying meditation person, but I feel like maybe this is how I feel when I'm not meditating at all, what you're saying. So Have you tried meditating? And then there was a pause in the text. And then Cameron said, well, the thing is, I'm in Canada and they don't have that here. Oh, yes. Did you did you try the meditating and did it help?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I think that Cameron's the funniest person I've ever met in my life. Yep.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Hilarious. Yes. She's kind of like one of those prophet comedians who says all the true things. She's like a priest comedian, which we'll find out. How about we talk to her since she's sitting here and we could just be saying these things to her. That's right. Cameron Esposito is a queer, gender nonconforming standup comic, actor, writer, and host.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
How is it going for you? The creating more friendships, the reaching out to human beings? Do you feel more tethered to the earth when you do that? Does it help? What are the challenges?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
As a standup, Cameron has headlined tours and festivals nationwide and internationally. As an actor and host, Cameron has been seen across television and film, appearing in big budget films and beloved Sundance indies and on a million streamers. Cameron hosts a popular podcast, Query, with some of the brightest luminaries in the LGBTQ plus community.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
These are all body things. This is interesting. You choose things that get you back into your body. How is it going with like having to take your shirt off on a million little things and being this like confident in your body type person? Like, how is that all going for someone who's struggled with body dysmorphia and eating and your boobs and all the things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Like, how is the experience of it right now? I can see you're moving around a lot. You're stretching. Yeah. You're right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I don't know anything about bodies or food or whatever. Everyone knows that I'm not an expert on these things. I'm still working on it every minute. But it feels like it must be a move towards health to be doing them with other people. Because like for eating, I don't like to eat with other people. I don't like to...
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Any exercise with other people, Abby always trying to get me to go to these classes. It sounds like the most vulnerable, horrific thing ever. I walk by myself. That's right. I do yoga by myself. If I'm at a dinner, I'll like not eat and then eat when I get home. If there's something about the isolation of it that feels disordered. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So maybe it's moving in the right direction to be like vulnerably sharing those bodily experiences with other human beings. Yeah. That sounds right to me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Her first book, Save Yourself, which I freaking love, was an instant bestseller and is available in paperback now. And very excitingly, Cameron is now on the ABC series, A Million Little Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's so good. I don't need to say what we're doing. That's for sure. That's right. I should never be in charge of what we're doing when it comes to that stuff.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So exciting. Listen. She's got tattoos. I think we should talk to her now. Let's start with this. So Cameron, as you say, right now, right now today. Your true bio is that you are a big gay adult. Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, sort of small. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Okay, sister's not here today, but the person who is here is very, very exciting to Abby and me because the person who's here today is an IRL friend.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I find it interesting that I can speak to thousands of people and feel fine about it. I feel like I did you your service. I gave you good things. But if I'm sitting in a room with people, I feel like a burden to them. I'm like, I feel like I'm so sorry that you have to listen to me talk. I'm always ending conversations quickly because I assume the other person just wants to leave.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Like, I feel like I don't, I'm on a stage because we've already decided what the transaction is. And you can't say you got into this accidentally. But if I'm a hundred percent. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Remember our first phone conversation ever? Oh, my God. We were on for five seconds. I was like, OK, so it's a good day, Baba. Are you having a good day? She said, yeah. I said, OK, well, this has been great.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But isn't that weird to say, like, to believe that people want to talk to you, like you're not a burden? Like in order to have a friend or be a friend, you kind of have to decide that you're not a burden.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Right. Right. Yes. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. And then you feel a little bit tethered to the earth.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I want to talk about you, when you were little, you wanted to become a priest, but of course you couldn't become a priest because of the vagina, right? You almost said you couldn't become a creep.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And so you became a comic where you could hide in plain sight, right? They always say the best place to hide is in plain sight. So you decided to get on a stage so you could hide there. That's right. So no one would notice the real you. Okay. Yeah. I just think it's so interesting and cool to, And I think you're a priest. You are a priest. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
The way you use stages and the way you use your Instagram. I mean, everyone has to follow Cameron on Instagram. I think that Cameron is probably my favorite follow. Seriously.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Over and over. It's subversive and it's everything comedy should be. It doesn't feel like I'm being educated, but I am. And then during COVID. Cameron signed up for a bunch of college divinity classes. Is this the case? Can you talk about the situation with you and faith and learning and teaching and the fact that you just didn't get the hell out and get as far away as you could?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's what I thought, Cameron. I thought I was joining the people who were ready to fuck some shit up. I didn't know I was joining the people who wanted to keep building the shit. Exactly. You go, oh, you're the shit factory?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
This was all colonialism? I didn't realize. I thought this was something else. It's like you go to join PETA and you end up at the cattle ranchers convention. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You are. Cam, you are. You are. I hate to break this to you, but you're actually my size. But I've got big dog energy. Not that you don't. You do. You have big dog energy, which is why you feel like you look like a big dog. But what you really look like, Cameron, is a big gay adult. That's right. Big gay adult. But you started your life not as a big gay adult, but as a little gay kid. correct?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah, there's a freedom to it. We just interviewed Ocean Vuong and he was talking about how if you're carrying the weight of that constantly- then it's like, what do you get to do that's creative in your life? And so many People from marginalized groups have talked about this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
The opportunity cost of the resistance of that constantly is that you're always directionally moving against something because you're still just living your life in reaction to the man instead of choosing how you get to live your one beautiful and precious life. So I think that is probably what forgiveness is. It's not like I feel good about you anymore. It's just I'm sick of holding you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You don't deserve it. I love that. Right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. Lightness. It's putting something down. It's directional to me. It's like, I will no longer live that way towards you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I find that interesting too, because we all wish we could find healing separate from the thing. And it's very annoying that sometimes it's like when somebody gets a snake bite and then the antidote to the bite has to have some of the poison from the bite in it to heal it. That's how I feel about people who get hurt by the church and
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's so good. So we were talking to our other friends besides you and Katie. Our two other friends. Our two other friends. Okay. And they are like OG gays. They're like, what would you call them?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Old gays. Right? Are these original gangsters? Yeah, that's exactly right. Oh, okay. So they're OG OGs. They're original gangster old gays. And when I mean old, I mean like original. I don't mean old in age. Okay. I mean like they've been gays for a long time in the public eye like you. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So we were talking and they were talking about this sort of whiplash that they feel because the way that they would describe it is like one day and for their whole lives, they were like being persecuted as lesbians. And then like the next day, Old Navy was like selling pride flags and everyone was queer. And they just say like, where is the support group for like this movement?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
This whiplash that has happened to so many of us where it just happened overnight. And now we're all supposed to be like happily assimilated without any processing. And interestingly enough, they're talking about what if we didn't want the assimilation? Like what if we part of our identity was the fact that we created this community and now everybody wants to be friends with the queers.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
What do you think about that? Yeah. And then also, I want to know, do fresh queries like me ever annoy you? And I want to know the truth about this, because I do feel like sometimes those of us who have come out in the Pride Flags at Old Navy era can sort of have a different energy. It's almost like Karen queer energy. Like queerins, I would call it. Oh, no. Did you just?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. I mean, I love a smushed word together. Smushed words together are my, that's my gender. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We'll see. So, you know what I'm saying, though. Like, Abby and I talk about that a lot. Like, I will say something and she'll be like, listen, you just got here. You just got here. Like, don't... Do we ever... Do Queerans... Do you ever experience Queeran energy?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. And it's interesting. It's like homophobia and racism, they have in our country have the don't notice me thing too. And the way they do the don't notice me thing because racism and homophobia are legislated. Yeah. They're like, don't notice me because I'm going to go on stage and create my avatar that looks like Pride Month.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Right. That's right. So it's like the queering of everything is only capitalism deep. It's not in any of our laws. So actually, Pride Month doesn't help us at all. It's like a red herring. It's like, look at us. We're so gay friendly. but it, but, but we need the laws to be gay friendly, not old Navy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Cameron, you are one of my favorite people to talk to on this entire planet.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
We love you. We love you too, Cameron. And we love you pod squad. We'll see you at the next. We can do hard things. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yes. An in real life friend. So we've been talking a lot about Abby and I's new commitment to figuring out what friendship is and to trying to have it. And the person who's here today is one of those people who... It's one of our guinea pigs, our friendship guinea pig.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So it's interesting because you're talking about your childhood and knowing that there was something you were that was unique and that maybe not as common in everyone else. You call it left of masculine. You are often being mistaken for a boy, but it was also largely about your body. Just your body, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Like people commenting about your body because I think it's interesting that you're talking about like, I'm doing a lot of this right now. Stuff I wrote in Untamed that doesn't exactly feel right anymore. And lots of it's about gender and sexuality. Wait, what am I talking about? Because when I read your book, it's all in there. I'm like, wait, is she talking about sexuality right now?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Wait, is she talking about gender? Wait, is she just talking about body dysmorphia that anybody can have? Because people who live in women's bodies are just open for debate. Everybody can just comment on your body. That's what happened to you, right? Totally.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
We are trying friendship out with this person. So this person means a whole lot to us. But what I want to tell you is my first experience with our guest today, who is Cameron Esposito. I'll stop being so dramatically cryptic.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
It's not as vulnerable.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I know, because I get so excited. You know, I'm like really nervous right now. My hands are sweating as usual. And I just want to tell this story because, and it's a little bit gross, but just, It's important to me that I tell it. I can't wait. We were on the Together tour a long time ago.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Do you feel and this is I'm going to drive people nuts with this question, but I just can't stop asking it. I'm so badly trying to understand what is gender? Is it even a thing? Like, I can't find it in me. Okay. I can't find it in me anywhere. I don't feel like a woman. I don't feel like a man. Like, I don't know what it means.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
It just seems like something that was like a role that was assigned to me. And I was like, I can do this. I'm an A plus student. Like I can, I can be the femest fem that ever femed, but I have never, not once. And I just told Abby this, I've never looked at a picture of myself ever and been like that, that looks like me. Oh, wow. Never. Oh, Glennon.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Oh, that makes my little, I want to, that's so intense. Oh, I have actually. Tell me, tell me what that feels like. And like, what, what is gender to you? And is it in you or is it just on you? Are you performing it? Is it intrinsic? What is it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Someone said this comedian, Cameron Esposito, is coming and you all are going to freak out because she's totally amazing. And we were like, okay, that's great. Cameron comes on this stage and for these events, we were all sitting on the stage together. Okay. So we were all lined up in couches behind cameras. Cameron, who was on the front of the stage.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Um, I am so, I love, I think it's so cool that, you know, all of those things that you have,
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
figured out how to match your insides with your outsides you know because I think when people ask me like why is your hair always so different like when Sarah Paulson talks about playing me she says one of the things she's excited about is changing like how can anyone change their hair so much I think I'm just always trying to figure out what do I look like yeah
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Today, we are doing something we've been waiting to do for a while, which is talk about one of the episodes from last year that caused the biggest splash, and that was the episode that wasn't. For those of you who don't remember the episode that wasn't, what happened in short...
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
So let's just not do that. It's not about that. It's not shaming a certain person. It's about something bigger, which became clear after we launched that episode and we got almost a thousand voicemails in two days. Because so many people, especially women, resonated with being a part of a system that is male-dominated and being mistreated in a million different ways in those scenarios.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
And so in our wish to continue that conversation, we were trying to figure out who do we want to bring to this conversation to discuss this further. Yep. And all of us decided... Sarah Spain. We've got to have Sarah Spain. And one of the reasons we just effing love Sarah Spain. She's like this Venn diagram of me and Abby. We can both love her. It's so true. Because she's like...
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
That we are... Wired by this culture to feel so bad for men. We feel like I cannot hurt that man's feelings. I will eat my feelings for a year before I will dare. We have to fight that deep empathy thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I got to believe in a third way. Like I cannot just do we stay and eat it or we leave. Is there a way to use people like me on the outside?
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Totally sporty Spice, but also totally feminist Spice. She's just the right Spice. Both Spices. Sarah Spain is an Emmy and Peabody Award winning sports journalist. In her 12 plus years at ESPN, she has worked as a radio and podcast host. writer, and TV analyst.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I just want to point out one thing that you just said that I've never heard anyone say in my entire life, which Abby's going to laugh at because we had this conversation yesterday. You just said you are, whatever wording you use, lucky enough or whatever to have good, strong mental health so that you can blah, blah, blah. I've never heard anyone. I call that privately.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I don't know if I'll get in trouble for this mental health privilege. Like remember she was telling me some story about some dude. What's his name? He went to this like dark retreat for five days. So he could make a decision. Like he stayed in the dark for five days so he could make a decision about his career. The mental health privilege. He's been in the dark a little longer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
She's a minority owner of the Chicago Red Stars of the NWSL, but we love her anyway, a co-founder of Hear the Cheers, which provides hearing aids and equipment to kids so they can continue participating in sports, and is on the board of Embark, a program that provides community-driven experiences and learning opportunities to low-income Chicago high school students. And Sarah, the reason why...
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
So anyway, just thank you for that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
We wanted you here for this conversation is because of all of those things, but also because we were thinking, what's the most extreme version of this that we can imagine? And maybe one of the iterations of an extreme version of this, I would also suggest my feminist friends in the evangelical church, but would be a woman kicking ass in the sports world. So welcome, Sarah Spain.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
If women are in this situation and there's nothing, we don't have a structure yet to change it. We can at least not become it. We can at least outside of it have some level of sanity so we are not gaslit into becoming the very thing that hurts us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Thank you for being here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I just need to just wow to that. I mean, actually, that's some deep shit. Because Gloria Steinem recently said... On our pod, like religion is just politics you can't argue with.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
So is this all encapsulated in Tiger Woods handing secretly... walking by his, what do you call golf mates? Is he a teammate? Handing him a tampon secretly. What do you make of that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
But don't worry because he apologized. He said, if I offended anyone.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
And it would be wonderful if the perception from that was not that, oh, that woman's a troublemaker, but that the person who caused the trouble is the troublemaker.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
That's what Sarah's doing with the reporting, what she's seeing to other people so that the person in the situation. But that's what you guys did.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
So good. I just want to tell the pod squad that we had an entire episode planned with Sarah Spain that was like 10 voicemails. No, are you kidding? I think you're just a very special person, Sarah Spain. I'm really grateful that you exist in the world. I think that about you guys. We look to you for so many things and- Keep going. We are in your corner all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
And we can be part of that group that reminds you that you're not crazy. The world is crazy. Thank you. And that I'm a goddamn cheetah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
High point. There you go. Thank you, Sarah. Bye pod squad. You're not crazy. The world is pod squad and you're not alone. Love you. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
is that we had this guest that was supposed to come on and we prepared for eons and we were so excited about the guest. And then what happened was that the guest's husband came on to do the tech check and was aggressive towards our producer. And our producer reported it to us in our other little Zoom room where we were waiting. And she was hurt and stressed. Activated. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Yeah, exactly. Do you experience it not only from the outside? Because a lot of this is reactions from people on social media, which is one thing. But you're also experiencing, and I imagine, within the structure that you're trying to work inside of, not just outward facing, but inward facing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
And we spent a minute trying to figure out what to do and how to make it better. And then we remembered that we were the bosses of the podcast and that we didn't have to do shit that we didn't want to do. And so sister went over, canceled the podcast, said, Godspeed. go on your asshole way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Like preserving this ideal? But we also have to tell them that once it happens to them, the just world idea will come in and they will be crucified anyway. Because people who are raised in the atmosphere of, but what was she wearing? But was she drinking? That's still going to come.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
So here's the question, Sarah, for you. I want to know for real in your industry, because we're all so separate from this now, right? Like one of the things that was amazing to me about the episode that wasn't is like, we had this experience where this dude came in and we were able to step away from it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
That was like something that was wild to us. And the feedback was like, you don't understand. This is my life every day at work. This is what I deal with day in and day out. And I don't have the power to just leave. This is my career. What does anything work? We know, we know that reporting it actually often makes women's lives harder.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I'm not interested in making women's lives harder just for some freaking idea that somebody said we should do like horseshit. Is there a third way? Is there's anything that you have found?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
You know, you could take them to your grave. What do you think? Do you feel that way about me? Not.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
She knows for sure. I'm not going back to a man. I might be alone for the rest of my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Okay, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We're just going to just begin because Abby and I just got in a huge fight.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Right. Because then I'd have to get out of it if sometime like it feels like painting myself into a corner. Well, it's the same with gender, too. Like you're gender.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. But my thought experiment, you know, is like when we try to figure out like, well, what are you? We still have these conversations. It's like, OK, if I had to be on The Bachelorette and they were like, you got to pick your people that are going to be here. Sorry. Like you got to pick your people. I would choose, say, okay, women can be there and non-binary people can be there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
That's who I would choose. So that is something, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I would allow myself like the four minutes of one Indigo Girl song. And I would lay on my bed and allow myself to feel feelings for those four minutes and And for the first month, two months of sobriety, that's, I would say, you don't have to feel any other time. Just those four minutes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
So a couple of things. This is a complicated conversation. All right. Sometimes when I get on the interwebs and start talking about like fluidity and choice and whatever, usually someone calls like Brandy calls me and says, slow down. You're not allowed to talk like that. Well, actually in reality, she just called and said, let's talk this through.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Tell me what you're thinking and I'll tell you what I think. And her points were very well, you know, she, there are people in the, in, in churches and in places where when you start talking about, maybe I don't identify with born this way, maybe there is a fluidity and maybe there's choice involved, then the people who are sending their kids to conversion therapy use that as an excuse.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Like, it's like the people from the Bible belt need the excuse that God made you this way in order to allow their children to be who they are. So I get all of that. But
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I've never told anyone this before, including Abby, but since Amy and Emily are here, I'm going to tell you. This is exciting. So, I'm sweating again. So, I... Remember being very, very young, like 12, 13, maybe younger, and finding Playboys. Yes. And being like, wow. Okay. I know. I'm so happy. Okay. Well, I don't know what it means. Well, wait, what do you mean by wow? Just being like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And do you think that I have spent a single day of our lives, like since I got sober for 20 years without listening to you all?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I understand why people like this magazine. This is very interesting and beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. I mean, so then I shut down all of my sexuality and body and almost killed myself and married a bunch of men. And then... But yeah, it's interesting, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. It felt like so many. Oh, wait. Are you Catholic? A bunch of men. Yes, I was.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Every day of my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Do you know that the original meaning of the word virgin had nothing to do with sex? And the original meaning was to belong to oneself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
So do you think we should tell the people who we're talking to and about?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Today we are talking to and having a double date with the most important duo of Abby and I's lives. Yep. Emily Saylors and Amy Rae, the Indigo Girls, who together make the most important music of our lifetime.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
So you were trying to tell her something.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Do you all think there's room for the conversation of choice and fluidity? Do you feel like there are forces in the world? Adrienne Rich used to say, I'm a lesbian for political reasons. Or, you know, the second wave of feminism, what they used to say that, oh God, liberation is the goal and lesbianism is the way or something like that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
There have been times where being a lesbian by choice, not in a way that it was like, I would be different if I could, but I was born this way because there's some sort of apologetic like vibe. It's not like I would be different, but I'm gay. Like, no, this is the best life. This is the best choice. This is on purpose, kind of. Do you feel that that's dangerous to the conversation or do you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
One of the most successful folk duos in history, Amy Rae and Emily Saylors, aka the Indigo Girls, has recorded 16 albums and sold over 15 million records. That sounds impressive, but I bought 14 million of them. Committed and uncompromising activists. They work on issues like immigration reform, LGBTQ advocacy, education, and death penalty reform. They are co-founders of Honor the Earth.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I know. Being open to it at all. Because the choice is to shut down. You could shut it down. I shut it down for a long time. So the choice is to shut it down or not. That makes sense.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
a nonprofit dedicated to the survival of sustainable native communities, indigenous environmental justice, and green energy solutions. Their latest record, Look Long, Love, is a stirring and eclectic collection of songs that finds the Indigo Girls reunited in the studio with their strongest backing band to date. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
So Amy, do you identify as a woman? Because you've said in the past, you're half and half, which by the way, just makes sense to me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Amy and Emily, thank you for saving our lives and being here today. Oh, man, it's an honor. It really is for us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Here's another costume. I'm in.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And because we all want to belong somewhere. That's why people want to know your identity. Who do you belong to? But then who do you belong to automatically creates an enemy. It's like if you're in something, the only reason to be in something is to know who's not in that something. Mm-hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Because I feel like at that time, I had never heard... music that honored the complication of being a woman. Like, you were really honoring the complication of life listening to light stuff or reading light stuff makes me feel worse because I feel like, oh, I guess everyone else is fine and not swirly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Well, and then when I told Craig that I was in love with a woman, the first words he said to me, I was married. The first words he said to me was, is this what all the Indigo girls have been about?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. With alcohol and sobriety. Yeah. You know how you're constantly looking back on your life and like, I feel like everything's just an episode of like, I see dead people. Like somebody changes perspective. I look back on my life and I'm like, wait, I need to write another memoir. So I don't know. I feel like I was probably suppressing sexuality.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Is that a compliment or a stigma?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
That's what I think became bulimic when I was 10 and that just morphed into alcoholism. And, um, I got sober when I was 25 and it was a miracle too. I mean, when I hear you guys talking, it reminds me of me and my sister, although Amy would be my sister and I would be Emily. And it is, it was so bad that every day feels like a miracle now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
But it was right. I was like, I think it is. Holy shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
It's like it's like when a winter is so freaking dark and then spring comes and you're like, I feel grateful for it because it reminds me of what you were talking about before, Amy, when there's like a intense fight for something like my intense fight for being free sexually and then feeling so empowered by it all the time. That's how sobriety felt to me because I fought so hard for mental health.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I walk around most days like, holy shit, I am vertical. Everybody else needs other things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
All those husbands. And boyfriends. Yeah. Poor guys. Poor guys. So how did you find music and each other?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Like if I get, I'm not going to jail again. Like most likely. I know. Blue lights. Exactly. I'm like, I'm sober. Act sober. act sober, Glennon. I'm like, no, I am sober. I don't act sober. How do sober people act? But I want to just talk about spirituality a little bit because you brought up spirituality, Amy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And in one of my favorite songs, which Abby and I spent the week trying to figure that out, it's impossible to decide. In Second Time Around, you talk about being God-fearing lesbians, which is like, I don't know why, just that hits. Okay. So from your lives right now, from your perspectives right now, who is this God? Do you still believe in a God? Who is this God for each of you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And are you still afraid of her?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
You too. I mean, I think the themes of this hour and the themes of my life, which have been freedom in faith, freedom in sexuality, freedom in sobriety, you too have been my community in freeing myself in all three of those areas. And I know that you don't know me as well as I know you, but you've walked me to freedom in all three of those areas. And I'm, I will be grateful for you forever.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I will continue to listen to you every single day of my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Thank you both. And I just forgot that we also have a pod squad listening. So also thank you pod squad. I literally forgot that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Okay. Bye. We'll be back next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I said, no, I'm not upset with you. I'm freaking the fuck out. I'm having a nervous breakdown because we're about to interview Amy and Emily and I can't stop thinking about it. I have dressed up as if I'm going to a ball. Like I haven't dressed up for two years. Like what is wrong with me? I said, we have to just start this. We have to start it because I'm, so I don't run away. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Wow. This is a completely random question, but you know how when you're in elementary school or high school, you always feel like people that are the year older than you are cooler your whole life. Like if I meet somebody right now, I'm 46 and they were a senior when I was a sophomore. So they're 48. I automatically think they're cooler. So like, do you still think Emily's cooler than you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Cause she's older than you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Look at my eyeball. Okay. What in the Sam Hill? This makes me feel good for some reason. This is the best thing. Emily, tell us the story right now. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Did you do this yourself? Did you go? Did you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
This is so, should we talk about this? I think it's the best thing. It's just the best thing that's ever happened. It's so dimensional. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, this is me dimensional.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I know this well. Emily, I've lived this life. I've lived this life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. Oh, well, that's a good place to start. I don't know. I'm nervous because if they're, are two people in the entire world who have meant more to me artistically. There aren't any more people who are, see, I'm doing great. I'm crushing it and completing sentences. So when I was getting sober, I was 25 and I had just decided that my feelings were too much to feel.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I'm just going to send you an email after this with all the answers to this. Okay. Okay, good. So you two were born a year before we even had the word transgender, five years before the Stonewall riots, 10 years before any out queer person ever held political office. You came of age during the HIV AIDS epidemic, which they were then calling the gay plague.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
The world you came out in is so different than the world that I came out in. And that difference was created in part by you, which is so wild. How are people who came out when you did different than people who come out now? Like, what is the difference that you feel and see?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Which is different than being scared of homophobia. Yes. What does it mean to be scared of your own gayness?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
So I just numbed myself out forever. And then I found out I was pregnant. So I had to figure out how to human. And I still thought I couldn't feel my feelings or I would die. So I was freshly sober. And when I got sober, I was almost dead. I was like in a very bad place. And I used to practice being human. I would start one of your songs.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Hello, everybody. Thank you for coming back to We Can Do Hard Things. I am really thrilled about this episode because it's about fun, okay? So last night, I sat down in preparation for this introduction here, and I wrote down every single thing I know about fun. And in front of me, I now have a blank sheet of paper. I know nothing. I know nothing. about fun. I am un-fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Anyway, you're so cute.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
But what about the rest of the amusement park experience?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Okay. Can we just get deep for a second? Because I actually was talking about this with a few friends recently, and it made me feel better because none of – babe, you were there. We were talking to Karen and Jessica, and none of them also understood what fun was. And so I thought, wait, why do women not – understand fun, right? So we started talking about, is it because we're mothers?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Is it because we're caretakers? Is it because we have so much to do that we always feel like something has to be productive? And then we decided, no, that it's earlier than that. It's Part of it, and I'm not saying all of it, but part of it is being raised as girls in this culture where, first of all, a lot of people find sport. You're talking about competitiveness in sports.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I know. I feel sad for them. I'll describe her. She's just so, she's just got a sporty spice tank top on and she's got her little headphones on and she's just a beautiful human being.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
People find fun in that. But girls are kind of teased early out of losing themselves in sport, right? We're kind of you run like a girl, you're teased and you start to feel self-conscious, right? That girls are trained to care about how we appear to other people or whether we're looking desirable or looking attractive or are we fitting in.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And I think does fun require some kind of being unselfconscious? Does fun require losing yourself and like not worrying about how you appear? And that is what is trained out of girls so early. And babe, I feel like you, For some reason, that conditioning did not sink in for you, which makes me feel like this is a difference between the two of us. So can you talk about that?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Do you feel that you just didn't get – you're not a person who worries a lot about how you look. You're not self-conscious.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
We did it once together. Golf, the game that is so incredibly boring, but don't worry because it's also really stressful at the same time. And only like six hours long. And six freaking hours long.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Okay, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, but it's fun for you. Can you describe what's happening in your body? Because I'm really trying to, like, I understand that for me, like, getting a massage is fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
You do, you do. You're wearing royal blue today, which is so strange because you and I always only ever wear black. So it feels very special today.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Yeah, you did some laundry. Okay, so before we get into our hard things today- She just loves me more than you, babe. She loves me more than you. Well, that's a good transition into what we're about to talk about right now. Thank you for that segue because before we get into our hard thing, I think we need to just talk to you about the relationship between the three of us because I think it's
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Oh my God, that's so true. All we do is decide whatever the person we're trying to have a relationship with thinks is fun. And then we decide that that thing is fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Well, exactly. Because it's more acceptable culturally too. I mean, I remember I'm having a flash right now of sitting on a couch in college. I used to spend a good amount of time watching my boyfriend play video games. Okay. Watching him. That was what I would have told you I was having fun doing. Like, And it wasn't weird.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It wasn't weird for girls to sit and watch their boyfriends play video games.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It's so weird, but I'm just saying like it wasn't perceived as weird. It wasn't uncommon.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Right. But if that were flipped, right? Like would my boyfriend have like watched me do yoga or like none of that, that would have been less normal, right? And also we're always saying like what you just said, babe, you know, when we're together with the family, I would probably tell you that what's fun for me is to do whatever my kids think is fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
unique, maybe. And so how would you describe the little triangle that we have here, this relationship between the three of us where all we do all day ever is just talk to each other?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Oh God, it makes, you know, you know how emotional it makes me. It makes me so emotional. Why? I'm so glad you brought that up. It's because watching women... use their bodies to compete instead of perform to the way they just try so hard and don't give a shit what it looks like. They're not trying to be pretty. They're trying to be fierce.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
They're sweating and they're doing it for themselves and for each other. And they could give a shit what anybody else is seeing. They're completely lost. They're using their bodies in a way that I have never seen modeled. I mean, you're right. That's a beautiful, it affects me deeply. It moves me deeply. Even watching my girls watch, or my son watch, that moves me.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I think it's an interesting thought and challenge for us all to think about a little bit because when you even look at what's modeled for women as fun in the world, it's always like, let's go get a manicure or like something that's based on what the way the world perceives us instead of the experience we're having, right? Or the idea of let's just the wine culture, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Let's just all just get drunk, right? which doesn't really teach us anything more about ourselves either, right? So, all right, let's sign off here. We're going to have to take a break and we'll get into some hard questions. Can you think of anything fun that you want to try in the next month? And I want to ask you a question, babe, is reading and thinking about the book, does that count as fun?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Because I feel like that's great fun to me. That is one source of fun I've always had since I was little.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And also I thought of another one. How about going to an art museum or a concert, but not with a ton of people, just like a few people at the concert. And I thought of another one. What if in the future we have some kind of social situation? Because I'm always about to be social. Like I'm about to figure the social thing out. It's probably going to happen next year. I'm about to have friends.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
So I can picture a scenario that would be fun where we are in our living room and there's a few other people there. And we know these people well. And they might be all women or there might be a couple men, but the men that are there have no toxic energy. They might be gay or they might just be these unicorn men that have no toxic energy.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And they're there and we are all talking about funny but cool but serious things. We're not just talking about bullshit. And people who drink are drinking and people who don't drink are not drinking, but the people who are drinking are not getting wasted and being annoying. They're just drinking. And then everyone leaves at 8.45. Okay. Can that happen? Because that sounds fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
But I don't want to worry that they're not going to leave.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
All right. Sounds like a challenge. All right. Thank you, babe. Love you guys. It was really fun having you here. Thanks for having me. I love you so much. I love you, sissy. Love you. And we'll get you on a roller coaster soon. Yes. And we're going to take a break and we'll be back with some hard questions.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
So the gendered thing is so interesting, right? I was talking to a friend about this recently. And at first she was not buying the whole gendered idea on fun, right? That women don't know how to have fun and men do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Amanda doesn't lay down. She's like one of those people who just goes to sleep and hangs herself on the wall with a computer attached to her face so she can go through some emails in the middle of the night.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I just want it to be over. I hate games of all kinds. I don't care about them. Yeah. Tell, babe, tell sister what you told me on a walk yesterday about the one thing that you feel jealous about with sister. Because it was an interesting, yeah, it was a fascinating thing coming together, the three of us. Because when I married a man, it's not like it was a threat to our sisterhood.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
with my wife out on the Gulf of Mexico. Can't see land anywhere. No one is driving this boat except for the two of us. I used to look at her in the driver's seat and think, oh my God, why is the world letting us do this? Like no one is the boss of us. We are completely free. Wind just, it just was utter joy and this like wild thing. It brought up in me.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And when we were thinking about what we were going to name the boat, we decided what, what is that wild free spirit? And we could think of only Liz's partner, Raya, who died, but her spirit was so unbelievably free and wild. And so we named the boat Raya. So I used to let Abby drive the boat all the time. I didn't ever want to like, I was too scared to take control of the boat.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And recently I learned how to drive the boat because I was like, this is bullshit. Like, stop it. You can do this. And I learned how to drive the boat. So I was on the boat that day. We had the kids on the boat. I was driving and Abby was videoing me because music, if you think it's good in the kitchen, it's so good on you.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Just like she, she was videoing me dancing to, I think all about that base.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I actually hate, no, I hate that song. I think it's a terrible, terrible song. I can't stand it. I think it's like so obnoxious and anti-feminist. Fine. I loved it that day. Okay. And then the Spice Girls came on and then Pink came I am here came on. So I was like, it was like the best dancing day. So Abby was videoing me. She showed me the video later.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And honestly, sister, when I watched that video, my thought was, this is my favorite version of myself. I'm driving that freaking boat. I'm dancing. I'm happy. I'm free. I have like sweatpants and a tank top and a baseball cap and a bikini top on. And I just like felt so, I was like, I love myself in this. And I posted it.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And maybe so many people unfollowed because my dancing was bad, but I don't think so. I actually think if my dancing had been bad, more people would have seen it. I think that the problem was my dancing was actually kind of good. It's a stretch. It was good. It was for me. Come on.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Yeah, for me, very, very good. I think the truth is the happier, the more joyful, the more successful, the more bold a man is, the more the world likes and trusts him. And the more successful, confident, bold, and happy, and free a woman is, the less we like and trust her, right? And so something when we see that- It irks us, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
We were just, it was like, so what? But like when I brought another girl to us. Woman. Woman.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And that's why so many people end up saying, I don't know, it's just something about her. I can't put my finger on it. I can put my finger on it. It's internalized misogyny.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's how I used to deal with envy all the time. Every time I felt envious of something, it would hurt inside and I would shut it down. I would just decide I didn't, I hated that person. I didn't, I just shut it down until I realized that envy is of course a red flashing arrow pointing me towards the thing I want. And so I can either decide, well, you did it.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
You were like, that makes me feel something. I want that. I'm going to try to incorporate that into my life. You can do that and use it. Now that's what I try to do when someone does something awesome that makes me feel jealous. I just try to sit with it and think like, okay, what is this telling me that I want that I was made to do next? You know, but I mean, listen.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I know people who, women who, when they feel like they're being too happy or fulfilled or successful or whatever, they will know that because of the way the world works, that they will need to insert something, a post or whatever that shows them really weak and vulnerable and sad. Because the world will only tolerate a happy woman for so long. Right? So, I mean, I don't know. It makes me...
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Sorry. Sorry. When I brought a woman to our sisterhood, sister, it was like, wait, what? Like, did you feel any threat to our sisterhood when Abby arrived on the scene?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It makes me, you know, I used to, I caught myself when I first was promoting Love Warrior and Untamed. I would catch myself every time someone said, so you left your husband. I would find myself making sure I brought up the infidelity right away. My ex-husband's infidelity.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Whenever anyone talked about the success of my books or my speaking career, I would find myself right away bringing up the nonprofit, bringing up Together Rising. Because I know that the world will only allow me to do what I want to do in that marriage if I have a get out of jail free card, if I have permission because he was unfaithful.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And I know that the world will only allow me to do well in the world if I'm doing good, right? So it's okay that I'm successful at books because I do all this charity work and I'm an activist and I'm an... And I caught myself doing that and I stopped. Because I do not want women to listen to me and feel like they need a permission slip to do what they want in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And I don't want them to feel like they need an excuse for doing well.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I mean, maybe they just freaking hate my dancing. It could be a lot of things. But you know what? It makes me actually more hell-bent on showing myself in those strong moments. Because I've never pretended to be stronger than I am in any given moment. And so I'm sure as hell not going to pretend to be less strong than I happen to be in a particular moment. Right?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
My promise has been that in every moment, I'm going to show up how I am. exactly how I am inside of my moment. That's been my promise to the world. So when I'm feeling free and strong and joyful, I'm going to show up that way. And honestly, I think that we all need to show ourselves in those moments too. And I think we need to stop requiring suffering and sadness and meekness from other women.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Yeah. So that eventually it becomes less shocking and audacious and annoying for women to show themselves as strong and happy. Okay, everybody, this is our next right thing for the week. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to listen to music this week. We're not even going to add an extra thing to do. We're just going to add this thing to what we're already doing. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
We're going to put on music during our regular day in the car, in the kitchen, at work, wherever we are. We're going to do that to awaken this fun self inside of us and let her know that we still believe in her. right? And we're going to be calling on her soon. So I have made a playlist of fun songs for you. The link to that playlist is going to be in the show notes.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I do not want you to notice that all of these songs are from 20 years ago. I did notice it. It's possible that that's the last time I had fun. If it's not your jam, make a list of jams for yourself, of fun jams, right, Sissy? Is this what we're asking them to do?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Awesome. We're going to save the world through fun songs this week. Love it, Sissy. Okay, everybody, thank you for being with us today. When life gets hard this week, don't forget we can do hard things. We will see you back here next week. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts,
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And so for today's episode, we have brought in our resident fun expert. She is my wife. Her name is Abby Wambach. She has found a way to make a living playing games. One in particular is called soccer. And so she is here today to talk to us all about fun and challenge us to have some of it in our lives. Let's get started.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
What are our gifts and challenges? Like if one of us is the shrimp, like what we have talked about, what if we had a home flipping thing?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
You can break up with your sister. Some people have to break up with their sisters.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
No, she's not. I'm the luckiest in the entire world.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Yeah, literally. Like Abby says to me, this is what she says to me, sister. You were going through something. And Abby goes, do you know what sister needs? She needs a sister. And she's looking at me saying these words. I'm like, what the hell do you think I am? Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Exactly. She needs like a bulldog, like someone who shows up no matter what, who always knows what to do, right? I mean, I don't always know what to do. I just, it's a beautiful thing, the symbiosis between the three of us.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
All right, so this is already my favorite episode of We Can Do Hard Things because my two favorite people are here. Not just my one favorite sister, but my other favorite person who is my wife. Abby Wambach is joining us today. Hi, babe. How are you?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Babe, now we need to bring your hard thing. What is your hard thing that you're bringing to us today?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It's when you change plans at the last minute, which, by the way, I'm really, really open to and easy breezy about, but I'm not freaking out at all right now.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Is this because of the freaking garage this weekend?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Well, on Sunday morning, we had some time. which is weird, right? We just had some free time. And Abby was about to go do something, play golf or something. And she said, okay, I want you to tell me what do you want to do for fun today? And I thought about it for a while.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
What is fun? So babe, what is your, this is what I really don't understand. Like I truly have not, I don't understand what fun is. I understand what rest is. I understand what work is. I kind of understand what self-care is. But this idea of fun of which you speak is not something I've grasped. So can you define for me what fun is to you?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
y'all i will be getting out of my car to go into the grocery store and the next thing i know abby's gone why is she gone because she's running ahead of me so she can beat me into the grocery store as if i give a crap that's the thing i don't understand caring who wins things but nobody don't understand caring would you agree though that nobody really wants to go to the grocery store Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Okay. Sister, do you understand what fun is? What's a definition of fun for you? No, she doesn't either.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It's good. I'm just really excited you're here. And actually, I feel a little bit nervous right now, just like seeing you and hearing your voice right there. That's weird.