Glennon’s son, Chase, joins Glennon for a special conversation with his hero, author Ocean Vuong, to discuss: 1. Chase shares with Ocean the impact his work has had in his life–and Glennon thanks Ocean for helping mother her son. 2. What Ocean learned from his mother about how to navigate being an Asian boy in America–and Glennon’s recognition that she did not prepare Chase for the same realities. 3. Ocean’s new book, Time is a Mother, and why watching his own mother die gave Ocean a deep empathy and connection to every person. 4. His relationship to maleness–and why Ocean is interested in “staying and complicating” masculinity. About Ocean: Ocean Vuong, author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds, and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous is a recipient of the 2019 MacArthur "Genius Grant" and the winner of the Whiting Award and the T. S. Eliot Prize. In Time Is a Mother, Ocean's newest poetry collection available now, he reckons with his mother’s death, embodying the paradox of sitting within grief while being determined to survive beyond it. His writings have been featured in The Atlantic, Harper's Magazine, The Nation, The New Republic, The New Yorker, and The New York Times. Born in Saigon, Vietnam, he currently lives in Northampton, Massachusetts. IG: ocean_vuong To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Why is Ocean Vuong a significant guest for this podcast?
Hello everyone. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. I just told my son Chase, who's here, that I feel more nervous than I feel when I speak on a stage in front of 5,000 people because of the person we're speaking to today. So today we are speaking with Ocean Thuong and my son Chase is here. Hello.
Hello.
Ocean, even though we're nearing our 90th recording of We Can Do Hard Things, you are the first man we've interviewed outside of Chase's dad. At the beginning of the year when we were dreaming up this pod, our producer Allison said to all of us, my dream is for the first man we host to be Ocean Wong.
And when I found out that you were going to come, the first person I told was my son, Chase, because he is the one who introduced me to your work years ago. And Chase is a very private person. So he would never have agreed to do this podcast for any other human being on earth. So thank you for doing this because this is a really special day for me to have Chase here too.
Thank you. And thank you, Chase, for reading my work and to, you know, tending to this conversation. I'm all about mothers and sons. So this is really, really close to my heart. And thank you for being here and for sharing the space.
Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. Thank you for starting the conversation. Of course.
So Ocean Vuong is the author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous. A recipient of the 2019 MacArthur Genius Grant, he is also the winner of the Whiting Award and the T.S. Eliot Prize.
His writings have been featured in The Atlantic, Harper's Magazine, The Nation, The New Republic, The New Yorker, and the New York Times. Born in Saigon, Vietnam, he currently lives in Northampton, Massachusetts. So Ocean, I mentioned that you're the first man on We Can Do Hard Things, and I just wanted to start by asking you, what does it mean to you to be a man?
Oh, it's such a deep question. And I think it's one that I think I'm invested in, which is why I go by he, him pronouns, even when I don't always feel at home in it or amongst its ranks. In one of my poems, I say, I mean it when I say I'm mostly male. Mm-hmm. And I think that's kind of my relationship with maleness and masculinity. I'm interested in complicating it.
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Chapter 2: What is Ocean Vuong's perspective on masculinity?
Thank you. Thank you so much for saying that. And here's to more queer mothers. Yeah. All kinds.
That's right. And I do also just want to say that I will, you mentioned in the beginning that at some point Chase will lose me. When I am dying and you are saying goodbye to me, I will be remembering this hour.
Wow.
This will be something that I will remember. It's big. Together in our last moments. Ocean, thank you.
Thank you so much. It's a deep honor. And thank you for having me. Absolutely.
Such an honor.
We can do hard things and we'll see you back next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
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