Jason Calacanis
Appearances
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance | All-In Summit 2024
The Justice League. The Justice League. I don't know which character in that Justice League I am.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance | All-In Summit 2024
I have a follow up on that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
continue at all it was almost like the press was rooting for you to fail let's write the obituary like here's the obituary uh they're all saying their goodbyes on twitter remember that yeah yeah yeah they were all leaving and saying their goodbyes because the site was going to melt down and yes totally failing and uh all the journalists left yeah and which is if you ever want to like hang out with a bunch of hall monitors oh my god threads is amazing every time i go over there and post they're like
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
I think we always thought that the West was the exception to that, that we knew there were authoritarian places around the world, but we thought that in the West we'd have freedom of speech. And we've seen, like you said, it seems like a global movement. In Britain, you've got Teenagers being put in prison for memes opposing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
Massive crime? Right. Pavel in France, and then of course we got Brazil with Judge Voldemort. That one seems like the one that impacts you the most. What's the latest on that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
Shifting gears to AI, Peter was here earlier and he was talking about how so far the only company to really make money off AI is Nvidia with the chips. Do you have a sense yet of where you think the big applications will be from AI? Is it going to be in enabling self-driving? Is it going to be enabling robots? Is it transforming industries?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
I mean, it's still, I think, early in terms of where the big business impact is going to be. Do you have a sense yet?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
The funniest skits were the ones they didn't let you do. That's what I'm saying. Can you just say it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, hold on. He ran and shattered the party, the established power structure. Remember, it was the Bush family's party when Trump first ran. Jeb was supposed to be the nominee, right? He was supposed to inherit the mantle from W the way that W inherited from his father.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You look like Mike Pence. Jesus, is it a Mike Pence moment? It's a Mike Pence fly. It's a Mike Pence fly, yeah. It is a Pence moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And Trump came in there and appealed directly to Republican primary voters and called the forever wars a mistake and said he was going to build the wall and said that he's going to reset things with China. Issues that were latent in the Republican Party, and he took over the Republican Party the way you're supposed to, through democracy, through voting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That opportunity is gone here because the Democratic primaries happened last year, and the Biden team ensured that he would basically win the primaries handily. So they control all the delegates. Remember that. Totally. They control the delegates. They're not going to release them to a Jamie Dimon or some other billionaire who wants to shake up the party. Well, let me ask you a question,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, it is over. Why do you think that Kamala can't win? That's their thinking right now is that she stands a better shot than Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They're never going to hand the reins of the party to a total outsider. The Democratic Party is the ultimate insider party, and they are going to pick an insider. It's insiders picking insiders. And I think they've realized over the past week in particular that they cannot sidestep around Kamala Harris, both because it would be a slap in the face to her constituency and the money issue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So it's Kamala or bust for them. It's either Kamala or Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That's pretty dark.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's pretty dark. Okay, three, two.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Look, what the prediction markets are showing is that it's not going to be a free fall. It's either going to be Harris or Biden. I mean, that's what the prediction markets are showing. And I think that's fundamentally right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But look, I think there's real danger here to the to the country in this, because what a lot of people are saying, and I guess it makes sense, is that if Biden's not fit to run again, how is he fit to serve out the rest of his term?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
He's got to resign. Okay, so if he resigns, and that's probably the thing that helps Harris the most, right? Because now she gets sworn in as commander-in-chief. She's the president of the United States.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's a major glow-up for her, and it imbues her with all of this gravitas and credibility that she's now the president of the United States. They can send her to G7 meetings and deal with other world leaders. They've got four months to basically... take this candidate who everyone thought wasn't ready.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Remember, a year ago during the primaries, when Biden ran again, one of the reasons why is because everyone said that Congress is not ready. Every interview she does is basically a cackle or a word salad. In any event, no one thought she was ready. Now, they have basically made her seem much more significant by giving her the presidency. But my point is this, we're in the middle of a war
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
We're in the middle of a war with Russia just a week or two ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Both. A week or two ago. American cluster bombs were used to kill Russian civilians sunbathing on the beach in Crimea. Okay, our weapons are targeting killing Russian civilians. The Russians in response to that said, we are no longer in a state of peace with the United States. They did not say we're in a state of war, but they said we're no longer in a state of peace.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And the Russians have indicated that they may escalate horizontally by giving advanced weapons to our enemies. For example, they've talked about giving cruise missiles to the Houthis, okay? So all of this is happening right now in real time on the world stage. And you're gonna remove Biden, who look, I don't like Biden's policies,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I don't think he's compus mentis for more than a few hours a day. But I would still rather have Biden as commander in chief for the next six months than take the risk of putting Harris in there, who's inexperienced, who's a lightweight, and who might want to prove how tough she is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Look, it was obvious now for months, if not years, that there's been a huge cover-up of his cognitive decline. And the media has participated in this. Anyone who raised that question was treated as being a partisan or a liar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And just for a good example of this, I know you described George Stephanopoulos as a straight shooter, but when Nikki Haley was on his show a few months ago, and I'm not a fan of Nikki Haley at all. But she started making this point and Stephanopoulos basically wouldn't let her finish. I mean, basically shouted her down. So the media was actively suppressing the story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You take Morning Joe, a Scarsborough. He was saying that this version of Biden is the best he's ever been. And we've been hearing all of that kind of stuff for months. They were describing true videos showing Biden being out of it. They were describing those as being fakes, clean fakes. They invented this new term for perfectly real videos that basically would reflect his
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So the media has been engaged in a gigantic cover-up of this, and as a result, the country is in really bad shape because we have to go through the next six months either with a senile president who has limited cognition or we could end up with a new president who is untested, inexperienced, and based on every interview she's given in the last four years, appears to be completely clueless
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
At a moment in time where I think we have the most dangerous foreign policy situation since the Cuban Missile Crisis. So this is a really horrible situation. And hold on, it's the media bears a lot of responsibility. And what should have happened, OK, what should have happened is we should have had a robust Democratic primary a year ago. Sure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Based on concerns about Biden's cognitive abilities reported by an honest media. We never had that. Yeah. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Imagine if this feeding frenzy happened a year ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Clearly, Biden can't serve a second term. But the question is, what do we do now? And I got to say, it's amazing to me that the Democrats are not considering the one option that is kind of obvious, which is you let the man run the most dignified campaign he can. He's the candidate you chose, and you lose.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Oh, Satire Sax is back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Here he is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, this is not Satire Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
This is not Satire Sax. The real problem here is the Democrats refuse to lose. They want to cling to power however they can. They refuse to let democracy just work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, this is really interesting. So there is an analog. Okay, in 1996, Bob Dole was the Republican candidate for president. And quite frankly, he was too old. He was seen as a relic. Clinton was fairly popular. And it was pretty obvious that he was just a loser and he was going to lose. Do the Republicans engage in shenanigans to try and fix the situation? No.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They just accepted the inevitable that Dole was going to lose. And what they did is they pulled financing from his campaign, at least in the final month, and they redistributed it to House and Senate candidates. And actually, they did better. In the House and Senate, they held on to the House and Senate. I think they lost a few seats, but way less than they were expecting to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And they kind of ran on a campaign that, you know, you can't trust Slick Willie. So keep us on split the ticket and keep us on as a check against him. And it actually worked fairly well. It was the best the Republicans could do. But frankly, they let Bob Dole run a dignified campaign. My advice to the Democrats would be don't have Biden resign. Doing a shakeup right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
If you're a Democratic, listen to Sachs. clueless president in there who's going to want to show how tough she is and bring in her own team in the middle of this dangerous situation. Let Biden run a dignified campaign and lose.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Jamie Dimon and Bob Iger.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's called wish casting. You're doing wish casting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Brilliant. Okay. Well, you guys better have a magic lamp with a genie in it because that's the only way this is going to happen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, I think that with respect to the Texas and Florida laws, I think their heart was in the right place. They were motivated by the right things, which was to reduce censorship on the social media platforms, specifically censorship of conservatives, which is to say they're citizens.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But those laws probably were overly broad, and they infringed on the free speech of corporations, because I guess corporations get free speech too. And basically what the ruling says is that content moderation receives the same First Amendment protections as any other kind of speech. So the decisions of what...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
content you're going to keep up or take down on your own property is itself a speech decision, and the government has to respect that. So that's what the ruling here was saying. I think it's not a bad decision. I wish the Supreme Court, however, had coupled this with a better decision in the Missouri versus Biden case, which they basically said that the plaintiffs lacked standing to pursue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So they didn't necessarily give a dispositive ruling in that case, but they threw it out. And basically what that case was about was the Biden administration was engaged in attempts to influence or pressure social media companies to take down speech. It's a practice known as jawboning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I wish they had coupled this decision with a better decision in Missouri versus Biden, saying the government's not allowed to coerce social networks to take down speech either. And they refuse to do that. So I wouldn't say these are like the greatest decisions. set of decisions with regard to free speech that the court's ever done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I hope that they will come back in the future once they find a plaintiff with the right standing to address that issue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
To Friedberg's point, I mean, I think this ruling might have been necessary from a constitutional standpoint because corporations do have free speech rights. But again, I would say that I think that the laws of Texas and Florida were coming from a good place, which is they were trying to protect the rights of their citizens to engage in free speech.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think it's just unfortunate that in this case, it's a zero-sum game. And as a result, those laws were invalidated. I think that makes sense, but I still think we have a problem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, I think it's really tricky to figure out how to solve this. Got it. I think for one thing, you don't want the government jawboning these sites to take down content. That clearly should be a free speech violation. I'm disappointed the court didn't get to that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But, man, we've got to start with Washington. I've never supported the mullet strategy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, no, no, no, no. I never said it had to be a political show. Exactly. I always said we start with the biggest, most topical issues first. And it could be business or it could be politics. Correct. You were discriminating against the politics. You were insisting that it be a business issue, even if the business issue wasn't relevant, topical, or interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Here we go. No, I was not. I think you're talking about Friedberg. Friedberg was the one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That's true. It mostly came from Friedberg. Who is right? Who brought the ratings of this pod to a whole new level?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, I agree with that, and I agree with what Freeberg said. Look, when this decision, the Chevron decision came down in 1984 at the height of the Reagan revolution, conservatives actually liked it. They praised it because we were coming off a period of an activist court. you know, the Warren court.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And they thought that shifting power from the courts to the agencies would actually be a good move. Well, it turns out it completely backfired. Chevron, when it came out, was not a widely noticed decision. Since then, it's been cited 18,000 times by federal courts. It's turned out to be enormously important and influential.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, Friedberg. Who brought the MAGA lunatics?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And the reason for all those citations is it's the courts deferring to the rulemaking of an agency. You know, what Chevron basically says is as long as the agency's interpretation is reasonable, or you could say not unreasonable, then the agency can basically promulgate the rule. And what this has led to is an orgy of rulemaking by all these federal agencies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Who built this thing? Me. Who built this? Me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And so most of our laws now effectively are being made by unelected bureaucrats who are part of this three-letter alphabet soup of government agencies. It's not the Congress, it's not the court, it's not the president. It's this fourth branch of government that's not in the Constitution, which is the administrative state.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And so the administrative state has become incredibly powerful as a result of Chevron doctrine. And now I think by reversing it, you actually give a chance for the restoration of democracy. Basically, the agencies are not empowered to essentially make whatever rules they want as long as they
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
superficially appear reasonable, they actually have to show that their rules are within a statute, that they were directed by Congress to effectively engage in the rulemaking. So this is a step in the right direction for sure. But again, the real problem here is reigning in this unelected administrative state.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
By the way, I mean, the ratings of this pod hit some sort of new stratospheric level. Not just with President Trump interview, but last week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, I mean, I would say it's not even necessarily an originalist or conservative court. It's a 3-3-3 court, meaning there's three conservatives, there's three liberals, and there's three justices in the middle. You have this middle block led by the Chief Justice Roberts with Kavanaugh and Barrett, and then you got the conservatives with Gorsuch and Thomas and Alito.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And sometimes the middle block goes with the liberals, sometimes it goes with the conservatives. Again, it's more of like a triangle. And as we know, the triangle is the best shape for equipoise, right? Because it creates balance. And I think what we have right now is a balanced court. And I think on the whole, they've done a good job.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I think it's kind of sad that in reaction to some of these decisions, you've got powerful lawmakers like Elizabeth Warren who are explicitly calling for packing the court. They're actually saying, you know, put a bunch of justice on here to ruin this equipoise that we have. I think it's really sad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think that the court right now is one of the last highly functional institutions in American public life. And for elected leaders to be calling for its destruction is just sad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I mean, not exactly. I mean, again, I view it as a 3-3-3 court. A lot of other people have written about that, and they've got their own diagrams and charts to show that. Look, I think it's a court, like I said, in equipoise. I don't think it's partisan. I think it's being reasonably fair. I don't agree with every single ruling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Like I said, I would have liked to have seen a different result in Biden v. Missouri. However, I think on the whole, they're doing a good job. And it really should be a scandal that you've got powerful lawmakers explicitly calling for the court to be passed. I mean, that would be a disaster, right? Because you have nine justices, which is a good number. You try to increase that to 13.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Then the next time the Republicans have control, they're going to increase it to 15 or 21 or whatever. And pretty soon we're going to have 100 justices on the court. You'll ruin it. You know, really, nine justices should be a constitutional requirement. We should just fix it at nine and not mess with that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So it's just scandalous to me that you've got politicians who are reacting to reasonable decisions by saying that we need to pack the courts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
do a deep dive into how incognito incognito mode is. You may want to get a VPN.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
All right, so... I'm surprised you're not discussing the immunity case. That's the one that all the pundits have been hyperventilating about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Nick, we should cut this whole segment. Why? It's so good. So pure. I'm trying to navigate this and not get labeled. Zax, where are you on this? What's your opinion? Zax, no. Zax is going to win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
so far 16 red states have passed or agreed to pass age gaining jay cal's got the dunder mifflin index of whatever sorry i couldn't hear it you guys started laughing too quickly say it again cut out you had the dunder mifflin score of xyz dunder mifflin so quick jay cal check the dunder mifflin score what does it say I don't understand the Dr. Mifflin score.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think this was an easy decision. All the majority did was codify explicitly what has long been presumed, that Presidents enjoy broad immunity for official acts that they undertake in the exercise of their constitutional authority and the duties of their office. It was established decades ago that presidents enjoy broad immunity from civil lawsuits.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So it's already been the case that presidents can't be sued civilly. Well, criminal liability is even harder to prove. So if you have the broad immunity from civil, you should have broad immunity from criminal as well. And the Supreme Court, I think, had never ruled on criminal immunity because they never had to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No former president's ever been subjected to the type of lawfare that's been deployed against Trump. who also happens to be the political opponent of the current president. So I think it's a shame that the Supreme Court has had to rule on this. Did they get every detail right? I don't know. I don't know what it means for the future.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Why are you doxing me? What's going on here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
However, I know the reason they're doing it, which is we've had this unprecedented lawfare against Trump. And that's why they've been forced to do this. So ultimately, I think this is the right decision. No, it does not authorize drone strikes against the president's political enemies. That's insane. It does not make the president above the law or a king.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I think that Roberts, in his ruling, said the key things. He said that the dissent's position in the end boils down to ignoring the Constitution's separation of powers and the court's precedent, and instead fearmongers on the basis of extreme hypotheticals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And then he says that the dissents overlooked the more likely prospect of an executive branch that cannibalizes itself with each successive president free to prosecute his predecessors, yet unable to boldly and fearlessly carry out his duties for fear that he may be next.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think that's really the key line here is that you're posing all of these insane hypotheticals instead of recognizing the practical reality that if you don't give presidents immunity... then the next president is going to prosecute the old president. And future presidents will be hamstrung in doing this very important job that's already difficult enough.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So I think that this was just a necessary decision. There was no way around it. And the president already has civil immunity. You got to give him criminal immunity too.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
that's totally irrelevant to the course decision.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think that what you just described there is what's known as a question of fact in the legal system. There are questions of law and questions of fact. And what the Supreme Court has done is given us a doctrine. They've answered the question of law. They've basically given us a three-part test.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They said that when the president acts within his exclusive constitutional authority, he gets broad immunity. When he does an official duty, but that's not in that category, he gets presumptive immunity, meaning that the prosecutor can still go after him. They just have to rebut the presumption. And when he engages in a personal act, there's no immunity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So, look, what has to happen now is if Jack Smith wants to continue this prosecution of Trump, he's going to have to make the argument that Trump's acts were either personal or were part of his duties, but he's going to rebut the presumption. So that is now the question of fact that Jack Smith would have to litigate. And I'm not going to litigate it here. I don't know the answer to that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But again, I would separate questions of law and questions of fact. What the Supreme Court has done, I think, is given us a useful doctrine that the presidency now needs in light of the reality of lawfare.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Between this ruling and another case called Fisher v. U.S., which is the January 6th obstruction case, where the Supreme Court in a 6-3 majority found that Sarbanes-Oxley was being misused to create a new crime called obstructing an official proceeding. When you combine that judgment with this judgment, I think Jack Smith should just resign.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, I don't think he's going to do that because he is scheduled to do a sit-down interview with George Stephanopoulos. I think they're recording it on Friday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's pretty clear that some court has kicked the legs out from under his case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That's right. So again, not a hyper ideological, not a hyper partisan court. They just ruled that Sarbanes-Oxley had nothing to do with what happened on January 6th, and it was being misused by a creative prosecutor. And I told you when these Jack Smith cases first came, I said it's not the job of a prosecutor to be creative. Their job is to narrowly interpret the law and to enforce the law.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And you combine these rulings together, and you can see that Jack Smith has now an even more uphill battle. It's time for him to resign. By the way, that's 200 convictions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They took hundreds of people who did not engage in any violence on January 6th. Many of them just wandered through an open door in the Capitol and they were prosecuted to the hilt. They were sent to jail for that because this DOJ wanted to send a statement. They wanted to use them as a political talking point. And that's a shame.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think hundreds of people were horribly mistreated by the judicial system As part of a political prosecution.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No problem putting those people in jail. No problem. Anyone who used violence, go directly to jail. Do not pass go. But some of these people just took a tour through the Capitol.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Some of them went to jail. The ones who went to jail. Jacob Chansley spent three years in jail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I don't know that. Just because he wore the Viking. Remember the guy with the Viking?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. He's going to do an interview with Stephanopoulos on Friday, and then Stephanopoulos is showing it in two parts on Saturday and Sunday. So it's going to be edited. So we don't know what they're going to edit in or edit out. At this point, though, the media is in such a fleeting frenzy that I don't think that ABC is going to cover for Biden. So
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I saw a video of him getting a guided tour through the Capitol.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
What did he do? He moved a dais around?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
He didn't. I never saw any video of him doing that. Anyway. They picked on him because he was an easy target because he looked like a weirdo. And he had the Viking horns. And he has a history of mental problems. And so they put that man in jail for years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, I'm not concerned about him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That wraps up the All In podcast. You can have those concerns. I don't think it lets you put innocent people in jail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They didn't. They bumped Virginia, just to be clear.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
In Virginia?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
In Virginia?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I'm not defending them. Are you defending them? No, I'm not defending them. I'm just clarifying that there were no guns at the Capitol because that's a lie. No, no, they were in the hotels around the Capitol. But I don't think innocent people who just wandered through the Capitol should go to jail. And that clearly happened.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Whoa. I think it's more likely than not that they're not going to replace Biden because the only feasible alternative is Harris and should be worse. And I think it's more dangerous for the country, frankly. I'd rather just see Biden finish out his term than put someone... new experience, even if he had too bad, it's too bad choices, J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I don't agree with Biden's policies, but there's continuity there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I suspect it'll probably be a pretty fair representation of the actual recorded interview. In any event, that's coming out this weekend. I think the Biden presidency basically hinges on this interview. If Biden can show that he's sharp and he's responsive and not senile, and presumably he's going to sit down and do this at the best hours of the day, right? They can't make that excuse anymore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Right, exactly. So I'm sure he can do this at a time when he has the good stuff. I think if he knocks it out of the park, maybe he can quell all of this speculation. But if not, if it goes poorly, then I think he's done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, because think about it. I mean, the accusation is that he's senile. That's not a hard thing to disprove if you're not actually senile. You just need to go in there. Right. It's a pretty low bar, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Not senile.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah. So he just needs to go in there and talk for whatever it is, an hour. And he's not going to be fed a hardball question. He's probably going to be pretty softball questions. He just has to prove that he's not senile. If he can do that, it'll calm things down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I didn't have time to get like a whole... All I heard was lick my anus. It's N-I-S, not N-U-S. So Nostracanus prediction coming in here. Here's what will happen, Freeburg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
The hot swap's going to happen, so you didn't call it. The problem with your hot swap theory has always been that not only would Biden step down, but that magically they would choose the best candidate. We would get a Jeff Bezos, we get a Jamie Dimon, that somehow we would get someone who represented all of Trump's policies without being Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But you would get some magical moderate to emerge in the Democratic Party. That's not going to happen, okay? Thanks to your incessant demands for the hot swap, you and many others, and this feeding frenzy. So I caused it? I love it. Yeah, you in part, along with many others, have caused this feeding frenzy. We are going to get President Kamala Harris. She's the only alternative.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You can see this in the prediction markets. Just a few days ago, it was sort of evenly divided between there was her, there was Gavin Newsom, there was Gretchen Whitmer. Now it's just her. Why has that happened? Because they realize they can't sidestep Kamala Harris without offending a major constituency in the Democratic Party. Equally important, maybe even more important,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They would lose roughly a billion dollars of contributions to the Biden-Harris campaign if neither Biden nor Harris is running at the top of the ticket. They'd have to refund all of that money back to the donors who contributed it. There's no way they're going to start over from zero in terms of fundraising. So they've realized that if...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Joe steps aside, there is only one feasible candidate for them, which is Kamala Harris.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You're operating under the charming delusion that the Democratic Party cares about democracy. This is basically a party that's run by political insiders that hates billionaires and people like this. People like Warren Buffett and Jamie Dimon, they pay the Democrats protection money. That's how Democrats see them. We're going to go shake them down to get money from them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They're not going to hand over the reins of the party to some outsider like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Guys, just give me one second. Can I just ask... Make one comment. I've been here for like 40 minutes. Yeah, tried to get you in. I want to respond to the inflation point, Mark. I just shared two images. First was the U.S. crude oil production chart. And more than half of this oil is exported. So you can see the reduction in production, but the domestic oil production...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
capacity remain high relative to our consumption. So US consumption, if oil was the biggest driver, it really would have affected the profits of the exporting companies, not necessarily the cost of energy domestically. I will, however, point out that the Federal Reserve's balance sheet swelled during COVID from $4 trillion to $8 trillion. And as we all know, there was significant
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
fiscal stimulus, meaning the federal government bought a ton of shit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, I would argue that flooding the world with dollars, which is what the Federal Reserve did because they bought up all the bonds as the federal government started to issue money in lots of different ways, caused the supply of dollars to go up, which causes the cost of anything that's dollar-denominated to grow up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And I think many economists would argue and make the case that the fiscal policy and the monetary policy of the federal government and the Federal Reserve is largely to account, and I'm not going to use the word blame, but to account for the inflation we saw in the cost of everything from energy to production to labor to assets and so on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
They're not they're not but there was also significant as we can all acknowledge, massive in a dynamical system. Global supply chains are a dynamical system stuff is made in one place move to another place. When one thing breaks, or it slows down, it all breaks and we had a massive shortfall of goods around the world. And that was the biggest driver of the inflationary effect that we saw.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
No good production went down in everything, not just energy, but everything and not because of energy, but because of a lot of other reasons.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And then and then we had a whiplash problem where we had over demand relative to the natural and none of the production systems could keep up with demand stimulus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yes, of course. And fiscal and monetary policy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Stimulating the world economy by pouring a shit ton of money out that's never happened in history, right? For sure, 100%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
He did make that declaration against his own party, Mark. And he said, this is the wrong thing. As a Democrat, he said, this is the wrong thing to do. And they went forward with what they planned to do for various reasons. Some would argue political, some would argue that they thought it was the right thing to do. And the effect was precisely as Larry had predicted.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What about the border, Mark? Because you made a comment about the border and she was declared the border czar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
There's another theory, an economic theory, Mark, which is that it increases... the base of workers when we're at our lowest unemployment rate in history, and inflation is raging. So by bringing in low-cost workers that you're able to get to work at a lower wage rate, you actually have a deflationary effect and a stimulatory effect because then they end up being spenders as well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And that shouldn't be an executive authority, right? I mean, that should be like a legislative congressional authority that makes that decision and that determination on whether to change immigration policy. Do you think that the executive branch should be able to unilaterally determine who comes into the country without following laws?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And so... Does the Harris campaign agree on that point? Or do they have a point of view?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Mark, let me ask you just a point on arithmetic, which I think is the most important arithmetic we should all be talking about. Today is the first... Yesterday was the first day of the federal fiscal year, right? And here's a little image for us to all look at together as a group, an image that everyone should wake up every morning in the United States and look at.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
The first thing they do instead of looking at Twitter is they should look at the image that I'm sharing on the screen. right now, which is federal debt in the United States.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Federal debt now stands at $35.7 trillion. And the biggest challenge we have in the year ahead is that 10 trillion of the outstanding debt comes up for refinance. It's going to refinance at around 4%. So we're going to be adding another $300 billion in new interest expense next fiscal year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Plus, the Biden administration has proposed a $7.2 trillion budget for next year, which will inevitably lead to another $2 trillion of deficit spending, which means that by the end of 2025, we could be staring at $40 trillion of federal debt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And if you do the math on that at 4% interest, it's 1.6 trillion a year of interest expense a year, just on interest expense on the outstanding debt, which effectively begins to eclipse the entire federal budget very quickly, and gives us no ability to maneuver to meet the needs of all the policy demands that are being described and shaped in all of these elections and all of these debates and all the bullshit that's going on is really not fundable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What does the Harris campaign say about the situation with respect to deficit spending and debt? And I don't know how high you can raise taxes and not cut spending to even make a dent in the challenge ahead without driving a massive recession. What do you think the Harris versus the Trump campaign's kind of intentions are as we look at this abyss that we're now kind of jumping into?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
There's a limit on tax, basically, right? Like that people will vote for.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Do you support Elon Musk going in? If you're saying shed regulatory burden, shed inefficiency, improve productivity, don't we need an Elon Musk style model that Trump has talked about with Elon? Send someone in and let's go fix the inefficiency across all of the administrative efforts run by the federal government.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, I think that triggers a recession because then you got a lot of people unemployed, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Are you just trolling? Are you just trolling? Are you just trolling David Sachs? I can't keep up with the trolling. I think I need to ask Trump to control the trolling. Nested trolling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Mark is actually supporting Trump. He's just trolling Sachs and coming on the show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
That's pretty, that's pretty interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, I want to know about, are you investing in AI technology? Where are you investing in the stack? How do you think about that? Are you an active venture investor, Mark? I mean, I know we've obviously done some stuff together, but I'm curious how you look at stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I think we all have a piece of that now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
That was perfect.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Who liked it? I'm like, I don't give a fuck about that. There was a funny moment. There was this... moment people laughed, there was this moment that had emotional resonance. So maybe you could talk a little bit about art versus commerce, art versus algorithm. Art versus algorithm.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I mean, this is the tension we've had. We're a band, not a solo performer, right? So you have four people with distinct perspectives. And Saks was always of the mind, what's the top story in the world? I'm trying to think about, well, what's the most interesting discussion? Freberg's like, well, what's the biggest breakthrough? And what did we do last week?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And then Chamath's like, well, what am I wearing? And how does it look? What am I wearing? What am I wearing? What did I consume this week? Everybody's got different things there, but it's kind of disheartening to me to even know about all this. I feel like it's ruining it to a certain extent for me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
He wouldn't tell us the outcome, because he knew that Chamath would gamble it, and there would be a whole controversy. He'd figure out a way to make a bet on it. Actually, someone doesn't know how to keep their mouth shut, but. Yes, yeah, that's right. I keep talking to Chamath about that. And then he wins, and he wins, but he's so upset at himself because he didn't win enough.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah. Right. Yeah, and that's sort of where I'm getting to. And the other trend that Freiburg and I have been talking about, you know, we have this natural tension. We don't have ads on the pod. On my other pod, it makes millions of dollars in ads this week in startups. And that helps me have a team of nine people. We like to throw good parties.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And we like to... Yeah, we spent... We spent like a million to a party in LA. I spent 900,000 on the Barbie party on the pier.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Fuck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'm like Jimmy at Mr. Beast. Like, let's flip a coin and double it. Let's double it. I kind of feel that that's what's interesting about... when you have success as an artist is being able to deploy resources to make something that gives joy or that experience, right? One of the great things about the event is
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
When people show up and they dress, when a party has a theme, great music, great people, and it's in a really great location, something happens. Has anybody been to one of the All In Summit parties? Raise your hand. Open bar. Open bar. J. Cal fought me on the open bar. I'm like, you've got to have the open bar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
My thing was wine and beer and a couple of cocktails, but this guy is a bit of a lush, and he's like, we've got to have all the high-end stuff. wine and beer. And then what happens is the last hour of the party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
No, people are pounding double Macallan 18s because they're like, I got to get my money's worth. And then all of a sudden, I'm in a headlock getting, somebody's taking a selfie of me. Oh my God, we're friends. I love you. What do you think of the... the phenomenon now of building audience to distribute a product because this is infected.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'm going to thank our sponsors. I mean, this is what happens on an average show. I say about 17 inappropriate things. He goes, strike, cut, strike, cut. And then we have to have a grand negotiation after the episode where we horse trade the inappropriate things Chamath and I say and what he's going to allow us to happen. I don't mind what Chamath says. inappropriate things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
That is right. Ivory Soap was like, the car companies and Ivory Soap were the big sponsors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's all predicated on connecting with an audience first. First. So the advice I think what I'm hearing is, hey, connect with the audience. and put on the back half of your career monetization, but just connect. And Marques, I don't know if you've ever seen his early reviews. I mean, it's hilarious. He's like, how old is he, 15, 16, 17 years old?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And he's like, I'm using this phone, it's the iPhone 4. Jimmy's first videos are still up on YouTube.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I mean, I watched one of them. It's him counting to 10,000, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But this is a watershed moment in many ways because Netflix was really about them being the tastemaker, them underwriting it. That's right. You know, at least in this, like, Netflix post-licensing DVDs, then they became the creators, the arbiters, and now they're going back in some ways... to say we're gonna cherry pick people off of YouTube, give them money for their quarter billion subscribers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's a really fascinating moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But what has it been like in terms of, because we're going to talk about this here, a lot of people now are taking the playbook of creating audience and then building companies. And you were doing the production board, you're building a bunch of different companies. Ohalo became very successful and you said, hey, wait, I gotta go all in on this, so to speak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
No, Amazon. Amazon Prime Video moved up to 4%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Wow. It's also interesting, Netflix, I'm sorry, YouTube Premium, taking the ads out, is that 110? 125 million subscribers. Is that 125 now? YouTube TV. How many people here pay for Netflix Red, or the premium version that takes out the ads? Wait, YouTube Red? Oh, YouTube Premium. YouTube Premium. YouTube Premium. They keep changing the goddamn name. How many people here are YouTube Red?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Wow, that's pretty significant. It's like a third of the audience. And what is that, 12 bucks? It's like 20 bucks, yeah. It's 20 bucks now? I think it's the best 20 bucks I spend on anything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Welcome to Austin. Welcome, everybody. That's my friend Dave Friedberg. Thanks for having me. How are you doing, brother? Welcome to Texas. It's a little light. We're missing a couple friends here tonight. We have some new friends. We have some awesome friends. And we wanted to do something around this sort of new media creator economy. It's something we're experiencing with the podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But you're going into it with a certain amount of audience, a certain amount of notoriety and the ability, let's face it, a lot of people in business know you from the podcast now. So what's it like being a CEO now and having the pod as like a platform?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Also, the money and control issues are also very acute. This week when Star Wars was doing good, right before All In started, I met with the SiriusXM team. And they were like, hey, we think you might have some Howard Stern potential. And what if you got Travis from Uber, who was very hot at the time, and a couple of guys to come on and do a roundtable thing and make it fun.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And then when we started talking money, I was like, that's less money than This Week in Startups makes already, and I own 100% of it. Would I own the IP here? And they're like, well, no, no, we own the IP. And I'm like, I mean, we're talking six years ago, seven years ago. And then even now, once in a while I'll talk to CNBC or somebody will come and say, hey, you have any ideas?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And I'm like, it doesn't economically make sense for a creator who has escape velocity to go backwards. And I wonder, Freberg, if the answer to this question is anybody who is actually talented enough, like a Megyn Kelly, or somebody like Mr. Beast or even Tucker Carlson, how could they ever go back to Fox now? That's the point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's so hard. Isn't this, Colin, because Fox and SiriusXM and CNBC have a cost infrastructure, so when they meet talent, they're like, talent gets 20%, and then we need to get our 20%, and then the other 50%, 60% has to go to... The shareholders. Yeah, and the building, and the 50 fucking camera operators.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
The turning point of the pod really was when, it used to run out of my operation, and I said, you guys have to commit to Thursdays the same time. We cannot, if this is gonna work, Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
We had so much tension the first two years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It was a big... Actually, I think it's like a real... important evolution. We had this thing going ad hoc, and I was trying to keep it together. And the one thing I learned in media from Engadget, I asked Peter Rojas, who I had stolen from Gizmodo, Nick Denton's company, to come to Engadget. I said, tell me the secret of why Gizmodo, Gawker, and now Engadget are doing so well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And he said, oh, the secret to blogging is very simple. Show up every day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're really good at listening and finding that next question. But it is such an amazing hack to learn, right? And to build a network and to even build a group of friends.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I think we all feel that way in many respects. Tell me about, you know, Sam's a good friend of mine. We had the same book agent for a long time, and I remember I had him on my podcast, and he said, what's podcasting? And I explained it to him, and he said, well, how do I do it? And I said, well, you get two microphones and a guest. And he's like, then what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'm like, well, then we hit the record button, and I helped him start the pod. What are your thoughts on... What he's done and his influence, because I know you've had him on a couple of times, yeah?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Only once?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Oh, Annika's been on as well. Yeah, she's fantastic. So tell me about your favorite guest, Sam Jordan Peterson. I know there's a bunch of... He's pretty great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Love Rory. Amazing. I've had him on my pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
This is the right tack, by the way, is to pursue your muse and to do something that's authentically interesting to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Final cut.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And before we get to that, I really want to bang on this just a little bit more. You also made a decision. We were talking before about we did something lo-fi to just get ourselves in the same space virtually with Zoom for a couple of hours. Your production quality is absolutely stunning. You care about aesthetics. You care about the lighting and the location. Just for the audience here,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Take us through that decision. And I don't know the earliest part of the catalog. And if you did it to that level, you have done some Zooms, I believe, because Rory is only available on Zoom. But take me through the aesthetic choices you made and why.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
No, but it's interesting. I mean, just knowing what I know about production costs, that sounds like you're spending 30, 40 dimes an episode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Does it change the subjects mindset and the interview itself, when they see how beautiful it is, when they see the investment in it, does it change something in the subject?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
That will... elevate the level of the partner too because they're being thoughtful. So you're going to remove the nickeling, diming people who should just be buying cost-per-click ads on a meta, and now you've got people who are actually thinking about their brand and what they want their brand associated with.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Absolutely, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Let's talk about, so you got leverage in the- That's like white-listed advertising was something we started on This Week in Startups from the beginning, which was if I don't use the product or don't like it, we turn it down. We turn down all kinds of crazy offers from services that you'll hear.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I was on Megyn Kelly, and I heard her read two of these ads, and I was like, God, I would never read that ad, because I know that if you type in that ad, product and scam or complaints, it'll be like a long list of people complaining about it. And then we were talking about her business, and she's using a third-party agency to sell her partnerships. And I said, Megan, you're Megyn Kelly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Just get two ad reps and partnership people, and you have to build that leg of the stool. You've got the content, you've got the distribution, you've got the advertising, the partners. You have to have all three of the stool or else it kind of falls over. Let me ask both you guys two questions. Who have you turned down? Like advertising wise? No, category.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Finish your thought, and then I'll add mine, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
No. Or ad reps? I always hated the concept, even when we were doing blogs, because yeah, you wind up if you're gonna take it seriously and you wanna make it into a great effort, I think you have to have that relationship and not somebody mitigating it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I think it's better to just focus on the content until you hit, to Chris's point, the reach that is necessary to have people calling you on the phone and then being able to choose it. And there's other monetization that's available now, merchandising, creating premium content that people can do. So those are better avenues than using these rep firms.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And the rep firms, it's a terrible business because if you do your job and you actually do make money and the creator does break out, then they will leave you like Megyn Kelly will leave hers. I don't know what the one that does all the Tucker Carlson and all those folks, but I'm just shocked. Like, Tucker...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
and Meg and we're getting paid 10, 20, 30 million dollars a year, they can afford to have one or two ad people doing this for them and not giving 40% to somebody. It just corrupts the whole relationship.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah, and you take it seriously. It's an investment in time for you. Today, we've recorded a great episode. We had our first comedian on, Andrew Schultz, and that'll come out tomorrow. He was hilarious. But you had an emotional moment today on the show. We were talking about entrepreneurship and your journey, and I gotta give you a lot of credit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You know, I think that's well said. And there's going to be international as well with AI. I don't know if you've experimented. We have a company, Podcast AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Dubbing stuff. And then that'll be built into YouTube. So all of a sudden, you'll be in Spanish, Japanese, and French. And the whole cycle will start all over again. But, you know, I did actually try that with This Week in Startups. I got the domain name thisweekin.com, and we did This Week in Poker with Annie Duke, and This Week in Blank, This Week in Blank, This Week in Comedy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
We tried a bunch of those. The problem was... But you did. You did different shows? I did some different shows in the beginning. I did it for about a year, and what I realized was you could get... you know, average hosts, broadcast hosts, but you couldn't get someone like Chris or Andy Duke for the long term.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
We had a guy, Dave Pensado, who's a music producer, and I wanted to do This Week in Music, he wanted to do The Dave Pensado Show. He had his own view, and the really great creators, what they realize is, I want control of my art, I want control of my brand, I want to own my IP, I want to pick my team, I don't want to be part of a machine,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You're not a professional broadcaster or whatever, but you prepare. And you put it all out there. And I'm very proud of the work you've done and how you've evolved as a broadcaster and as somebody on the pod. I'm very proud of how much you've started to put out there of yourself. And it's not easy to do because you're an introverted, personal person. I'm pretty extroverted. I'm like, I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And so what we're seeing is people like Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson now are free. Ben Shapiro started with, he was on AM radio in Los Angeles, and then he worked for Breitbart. And now he's got his own company. He makes his own decisions. So I think a lot of the talent, the most talented people will want to be independent practitioners.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Well, what happens when you get rid of distribution? It's not like we have to ask somebody for permission anymore. It's not like the record labels where you had to have distribution. You had to go to Columbia Records if you were a Bob Dylan to be in a record store. You can just do it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And that's obviously having a big impact on society, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Everyone still watches it, but everybody complains.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
That's right. Which is crazy when you think about it. I mean, I think this is the... the next great opportunity will be somebody who just is sitting there and has the ability to go live at any time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But it'd be really fascinating if somebody with depth, you know, imagine if Sam Harris, when some breaking news story happened, turned on his live stream and you're like, Oh, my God, now we've got Sam Harris commenting on this assassination attempt, etc. And you see it in sports.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I noticed Bill Simmons has started, whenever there is a major trade, when the Kyrie trade happened, when the Luka Doncic trade happened, he just goes, emergency pod. And I think they're really starting to embrace it. That is like a hack, and I think that will become a thing. I often go to the live tab on YouTube now just to see what they're talking about, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I mean, on the MDM. I'm ready to go party. I don't know what you're talking about. You're the one who locked yourself up in the room afterwards. I mean, maybe in the 90s when you were going to raves and you had a little of the molly, the MDMA, you were different. But I'm saying, like, now you're a little bit, you know. Back in the day. Back in the day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's typically low quality, but once in a while somebody will do something in the moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
The Anxious Generation?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I think this is a form of addiction that's going to wind up like MTV going away. MTV and music videos, we all as Gen Xers, I think you're on the tail end of Gen X or you're a millennial?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Millennial. We kind of got addicted to it, and then it kind of went away as a format of just sitting there and watching three-minute videos. And everybody thought our brains were getting scrambled because we were watching the AHA video and then this video.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's hilarious because he's such a perfectionist. And every time the pod comes out, Chamath and I just wait 60 minutes after the pod. That sucked, right, producer Nick? It sucked, right? We should delete it. Cancel it. There's a worst episode ever. And then the stats come out, oh, we broke another record. Oh, it's number eight in the world. Oh, okay. Look, the reality is we can always do better.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah, and TikTok's like, yeah, wait one second. Seven seconds, and I think it's fucking with people's dopamine to a level that they don't understand, and you do because you dip into this stuff and you have interest in it, but you can't fire your serotonin and see the moment, the most exciting, terrifying, funny moment in every piece of media, back to back to back. Oh, dopamine addiction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It just breaks. The next day, people are feeling hungover. It's because they're fucking with that dopamine receptors in their brain, and then they can't have a normal conversation. They can't go to a normal dinner or have a conversation like this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'm excited. for this pendulum to swing back and for people to read a book again or to watch a Kurosawa film in a theater.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'll tell you what, I think for a lot of young people, they're missing out on some of the great beauty in life is to be able to give yourself over for two hours to a Kurosawa film. or to give yourself over to a book for an hour, just but an hour.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And that's what we're gonna see, I think, in the coming years, is people are gonna look at this like they looked at junk food, like they looked at cigarettes, and say, this is not healthy for me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I mean, I am such an optimist, as some of my friends who are here know. Like, I just like, oh, that was fucking great. It was a train wreck, but for me, it was a great train wreck. And, you know, just so you all know, we couldn't do it without the audience. And the love that you give us is such an amazing motivation, especially for me. Like, I feed off the energy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Oh, yeah. Come on out, everybody. Brian, come on up. This is my friend Brian Johnson. Come on up. We'll talk to you too. Sure, y'all. Can we get him a microphone? Can we get him a mic? Will you introduce Brian? Yeah, Brian Johnson created a payments company. He was on This Week in Startups years ago. And then I looked up and he was sharing his nighttime erections on social media.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Oh, really? You were on the Kardashians?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You were on last week's episode. And who was, you were hanging out with Kim, or which Chloe?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Who was?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Oh, is this like East Coast, West Coast? It's like Crips and Bloods? You guys get along, or is he?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You're friends? Yeah. Okay. What do you do together? A secret. I mean, do you guys exchange blood? What's the... It's a secret, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
That's a Fuente. It's a nice cigar. You can just chew on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You're going to get a little nicotine hit, and you're going to enjoy life for the first time in three years. Go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Just chew it. Come on. Like this. See what I'm doing here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
That was a very clear response. It's either that or you've got to do Chris' ketamine. It's one or the other. Which one are you doing? Chris, you do ketamine?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I do everything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And when you all tell me your favorite episode or a great moment or you email us something, we're... the thing I'm probably most proud of now is people are telling me they're having more difficult conversations with their friends while remaining friends. And I think that's like one of the most beautiful things for me and my motivation on the pod is really
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Was it an injection? You snorted it or you did the... Injection.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
to help give an example of how you can really have a hardcore discussion, learn from each other, appreciate each other. And I hope that you all take that back to your poker games, dinners, et cetera. Families. Families. It's a very divided country right now. There's a lot of important issues. But friendship is worth investing in. I just want to give you all that as a note. Invest in your friends.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Invest in those hard conversations. Your life will become so rich because of it. And have a couple of laughs. Don't take it all so seriously, David.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Which is incredibly infuriating me. I want to read ads on the show. You'll be fine. Oh, God. We'd have a jet by now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
$20 million left on the table.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But also think about the value prop for... you know, people go to school, they go $50,000, $250,000 in debt, and then what I hear from young people all the time is they go take a course afterwards. And that course for $800 does more for them in the marketplace and getting jobs than the degree did. And I think this roll your own education
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
is very similar to function health in a way which is like, I'm gonna take control of it. I'm not gonna have an MD direct my healthcare. I'm gonna get my blood work myself. I'm gonna do my research. I'm gonna go and chat GPT or Grok or whatever. I'm gonna ask about peptides. I'm gonna ask about this. I'm gonna cross-reference it. I'm gonna listen to your podcast or Huberman, you know, whatever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And I think that this self-reliancy and this new category of products and services that are available, it kind of resets this industrialization that occurred. I'm sure Procter & Gamble and some of these things didn't start out with the evil intent that is now in their products. in their system. You've got to cut that out. Well, I don't give a fuck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'm not... Honestly, like... I don't give a shit about Procter & Gamble. I'll give a shit. They're a pretty dying fucking kid cereal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
And fuck their cereals. General Mills can go fuck themselves. They're the enemy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I don't give a shit about their sponsorship.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
No, no, no. I got that Tom's of Maine. My wife puts me on all this shit. I'm telling you, they literally are putting dye in children's cereal. They're putting corn syrup in children's cereal. They're poisoning the fucking country to make an extra two or three, four or five cents. What's the word you used? We were talking about the word in England you use, the C word.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Oh, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You got the receipts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
What's the worst product you got so far?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
What does that cost? Three, four grand?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Which brands? Heavy metals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Oh yeah, that's another rich dude spending his money intelligently. I love it. No, I'll be totally honest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Interpret this stuff these motherfuckers knew a whole time. They were doing it. They knew who's they were I I am so infuriated about this because these people, you know it's true, you know it's true, they knew they were doing this, and it takes some rich guy who's bored and principled, no offense, I love you, you know I love you, and who's the guy who's doing the plastic dollar?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
We own a decent amount of Bitcoin, and I think everybody should own a low single-digit percentage. It's not an investment. Is there a net worth? I think like a low single digit in Bitcoin, if you lose it, so be it. If it 100Xs from here, anything's possible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's another rich internet guy. He's like, you know what? I'm bored. These guys are screwing people over. I'm going to test plastics.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
What do you think of Bobby Kennedy, friend of the pod, and him taking this on from AHA? I don't want to make it political, but how did we get to this? This is interesting. Freeburg, this is the good shit, man. This is the good shit. You guys like this? Yeah, they love it, man. This is how All In works. We take little detours. We take detours. This is a side quest worth taking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But you've got to name and shame. But you've got to ask the hard questions. That's the thing that really pisses me off. You've got to name and shame in order for them to do what's right. That's what's so fucked up. They want to do any of the AMAs or? I mean, I don't know. I felt like this was going in a nice direction. I enjoyed the conversation. I'm going to do the conversation I find enjoyable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
People ask these questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I just signed up. I'm doing it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You're tracking on whoop or you're tracking on eight sleep?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's brilliant. They'll send a phlebotomist. That's a fancy word for somebody who draws blood. Phlebotomist. I learned that from Function. And then you can be like Brian Johnson, my friend here in the front row. Yeah. And you can live forever with Function Health.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah. And they tend to are pretty close?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah. This has been the big unlock for me. I am now sleeping. I got a 94 last night. I got a 99 two nights ago. It's my highest score ever. I'm really dialing in the sleep, and it's changed everything for me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'll tell you two things that also worked for me, because I sometimes sleep with my bulldog, and that was killing it. But I got these nice headphones, and I'll listen to some really high-fidelity sleep music, and I use an eye mask, and both of those added a couple of points. And that was really a good unlock for me. How are you sleeping, Chris?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Well, listen, thank you to all of our guests. You're very busy. I really appreciate you coming here. I know that you've been busy, and congratulations on the big win for Nosferatu. That was great. That's an Oscars reference. Thank you to the people who got it. But seriously, are you worried because, I mean, yeah. Are you sure what you're doing, like, this extreme is a good idea?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I'm a little concerned. You might be turning into a vampire. You are doing the blood transfusion?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Well, you did a transfusion with your dad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
After doing it with your son.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Is there any empirical evidence of this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
I take it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You think that this is a path worth pursuing?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Chris, what are you doing after? You want to do some book transfer? I'm doing ketamine with Brian.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Let's give it up for the sponsors one time. Come on now. Very good, very good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah. Hey, let's bring out our first guest. Colin and Samir run the Colin and Samir Show, and they are experts on building content business. Come on out, Colin. Come on out, Samir. Welcome, welcome. You get the couch, come sit on the couch here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Specifically, YouTube now, like when you buy a new TV, when I moved to the ranch, I got a new TV, and it's got YouTube on the remote. And you just think about that as a concept. And then I watch my daughter's behaviors, and they are watching YouTube remotely. on the giant television, not on their iPads.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
It's really a major difference, and there's something about, I'd like you to get into, is the algorithm versus subscribers. Because I grew up in a subscriber world, where I thought about, okay, I'm gonna get one more subscriber, and then I'll have them, or a certain number of them, out of 10, I may keep five, but they're gonna watch every episode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
But then there's something that's gone on where people are creating content not with the intent of subscribers, but with the intent of getting picked up by an algorithm and getting non-subscriber viewers. This seems like there's some tension here, maybe?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
You didn't, you had a Twitter account when we started All In, but you literally had never tweeted. And now you've become the Sultan of Science. You're very famous. Any Sultan of Science fans out there? Awesome, awesome. Did anybody see him win Celebrity Jeopardy? I mean, we're so proud of our bestie. You have no idea how anxious, ashamed, hand-wringing he was for six weeks. He knew he won.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yes. You have the suggested along here. So you're telling me people are creating videos with the intention of hijacking a popular video and trying to get that suggested. So everybody's talking about, I don't know, pick the latest thing Trump did today or who's on Joe Rogan or what Mr. Beast did. So now I try to get one of those slots that would be related to the latest Mr. Beast video.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
this is fascinating because right now there are people doing after all in videos where they talk and kind of drag us a bit and they're doing phenomenally well too. Oh, they are?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Yeah, we should probably make an episode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
All-In Live from Austin: Colin and Samir, Chris Williamson, and Bryan Johnson
Whatever, but... We could be the best in that category. Actually, you could own that category. What does it do for Colin, art, and the artist that this is in their brains? Because Freeberg and I, after a show happens, I talk about the moments. And Freeberg has got that other brain where he's talking about the metrics and he's wondering about the wait time and the thumbs up and the thumbs down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
You're the quarterback. Quarterback the next two weeks of the Trump administration.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
And in some ways, it'll just make it almost impossible for the Democrats to react, because where do you focus?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Let's ask that. If you had to distill, what are your specific takeaways as the mandate in priority?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Yeah. Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
I was going to tell that story. We looked it up. We were together in Utah. Peter Thiel had an event. He does his thing. And we had a breakfast. And Ted was surrounded by sort of
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
a handful of us were speaking to him and then what I would say is like every traditional Democrat from Central Castle and He went through the firing squad and he came out the other side and I thought wow, this is really great And so then I was I was very happy to donate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Well, I would I was you were a damn donor back then I was a damn donor but I would but see here's the thing like and I think what you're getting what I think what the senator speaks to which is what I agree with is I ideology matters. And so when you make decisions about how you think the country should run, you should stay loyal to that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
And I think what happens instead is people stay loyal to a party. And it's the minute you do that that the whole thing breaks. And this is what's broken. And I think what the great thing that Donald Trump did was he basically conducted a hostile takeover of the Republican Party. Undoubtedly. Yeah, and then the Democrats committed seppuku. And that's the most important thing that happens.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
I mean, all parties are reset. You don't have to go and kick the Koch's ring. What will they say? What will all this infrastructure say? What does Soros say? All of that is done. The whole thing's flipped over.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
In fact.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Have you, I'm sure you've been paying attention beyond the things that you've been a part of, the confirmation hearings. Can you give us the sort of blow by blow of where you think things have gone well, where there is room for improvement, whether there's going to be some spotty weather ahead?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Were there a couple that were you thought going in, we have to, this one will be a little bit harder than the other and...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
I think that was strategic. They sent him up the hill to take the first two. And Pam Bondi seems amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
That's great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Do you think that you'll see any Democrat senators support any of the candidates?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
He's made more change before he's become HHA secretary.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
So Jason brought up a really important question to kick this off. I just want to give you a chance to maybe expand on it, which is, There are so many examples. Texas is one. You can look abroad. The UAE as an example is another where there's a high degree of quality of infrastructure and civility, social services, education, security, but you don't have the traditional taxation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
That's strong.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
And so how is Texas able to actually keep the wheels on And states like California, which has a $322 billion budget, is just completely falling apart. What happens? Because you then see everything at the federal level, but when you go back to your state, you see, hey, we don't have. And your real estate taxes aren't that much higher, are they, than California?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
And most immigrants.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
Yeah, it's incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Senator Ted Cruz | The All-In Inauguration Series
What has that been like?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Solo, dolo. CoreWeave IPO happening soon by the time you get this. And NVIDIA, you were there at NVIDIA. You are the one analyst, Gavin, that Jensen pulled up. You're loved by Jensen. What's it like to be loved by Jensen? Tell us everything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Should we be doing that, Gavin? Is this going to be an effective strategy? If you were advising the president, would you say, just let NVIDIA sell them? It's a fool's errand to try to stop them because they're all going to Singapore or wherever, Vietnam, and routing their way around.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So, said another way, if we squeeze too tightly on letting them buy the NVIDIA chips, they might make a better NVIDIA. I think they're doing it now. They're trying now. Well, they're trying, but I guess what are the chances they succeed in your mind, Gavin, in creating something competitive with or better? And then what would that say about the AI race?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Yeah, they're thinking in centuries, and we're thinking in decades. Yeah, that's probably correct. Hey, let's pivot over to AI agents since we're in the AI. And obviously, there's other big topics this week we'll get to, you know, in politics and signal and all that kind of good stuff. But We have a company that seems to be, you know, having a moment. It's called Manus, M-A-N-U-S.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
It's currently in private beta, but they're creating agents. And we've been talking about this agentic revolution. Basically, little jobs going out. We used to call them cron jobs back in the day, but going out and doing things for you. And it seems to be working and it's pretty impressive. What do you think about this company specifically, if anything?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And are we getting to a point where we're going to have the same ChatGPT 2.5 moment, but with agents? And then if we do have that, Gavin, what will that look like in terms of employment and how companies are run?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Freeberg, your thoughts on these agents, and the impact they could have on running businesses, employment, and just generally efficiency. We're now starting to have some standards. MCP stands for Model Context Protocol. Your thoughts, Freberg, on how this might impact, you know, architecting a business, which you're doing right now with Ohalo.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
How might this change how people work on a day-to-day basis? Let's maybe give some examples for the audience.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Chamath, let's level this up and just talk about the bigger picture, which is our giant rival in China, They're actually catching up, in some cases exceeding us. If they get to AI first and then are able to execute on this, given their top-down controls, given the size of their population, given their advantages in manufacturing that we're seeing now with Xiaomi making cars
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
You know, what BYD is doing in self-driving and cars, what we're seeing now with chips versus NVIDIA. It's kind of getting set up that almost everything we're building here in the U.S., China's copying at a very fast pace and then exceeding. So what's at stake here, big picture? And then I guess we'll... then look at what should our philosophy be in a geopolitical way.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And Gavin, to just bring this around the horn here, China is playing a different game. And obviously there's other competitors on a global basis, but they are subsidizing, for example, their cars and their entire car industry. So the margin of cars here in the United States and Germany and Japan, that's their opportunity. They don't actually need to make a profit on it. They could just break even.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
There are cars now, 10, 20, 30, $40,000 cars now being made there. So this... then leads us to, oh my goodness, will Americans buy these? We're a pretty great customer. Will Trump block them with tariffs? So let's make the jump. What would the tariff policy be if, as Chamath points out here, we've got this big broad side of our battleship that they can put a giant hole through?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
which is our software industry, our car industry, pick an industry that they might be able to just blow a hole in because they don't need to make a profit. They just need to have jobs and break even.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Do we know what it is? I mean, it seems like it's in flux. So maybe we start there. What should the policy be? What do you perceive the policy is? Because it does seem to be a moving target. We'll see what happens on April 2nd because Trump keeps tweaking, let's say, adjusting in public.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Are they right? Is it going to be because a lot of what we're seeing in factories is automation. So while they may have been right about tariffs, bringing back high paying middle class jobs for the past 20 years, we cannot go in a time machine and change that policy. And isn't where the puck's going that we're going to have optimist robots, figure robots, pick a robot company doing all this work?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So Gavin, let's get back to this original question with Chamath's important context. Trump has been on this for a while, but is this where the puck's going? We have the lowest unemployment of our lifetime. Wages are obviously not where we want them to be. So is the right solution to put in a bunch of tariffs, create trade wars,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And then hope that people are going to build factories that employ humans when, in fact, it probably will be robots. So is there another solution, like maybe raising the minimum wage? I don't know. What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
It's happening.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Bottom line, these were great, substantive, long interviews from Democrats, one of them a gay Democrat, by the way, the highest ranking gay Democrat who's ever been in an administration, the left and the media should be giving praise to these interviews, they should be studying them. And they're doing the exact opposite. They're trying to spin them into something they weren't.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
It's a gift, what the all in podcast did to the American people by showing them a long form interview with the administration explaining these details. Don't spin it. Embrace it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
I'm sorry, I'm pissed off about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
You're a neutral third party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Absolutely. And you know what he even said in the interview, if you if you really listen to it, he said he was disgusted by the idea that you would even raise the Social Security age. I think we should, by the way, any rational person, I think the majority of people say, hey, maybe it should go up a year or two, maybe we should have a little austerity here on the margins. But no, of course not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
We can't talk about that. And, you know, the thing this administration could do better is communication. Those two long-form interviews was a great step in the right direction. They should do more of those. And Doe should do a better job of explaining this waste and fraud. They're doing a good job. I give them like, you know, a B plus, but there's more work to be done here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And there's waste, there's overspending, there's fraud, and there's abuse, right? These are like different categories. To get to the fraud, that takes building legal cases. All that stuff's going to have to be referred to people. We have a justice system here. It's going to take years to figure out if somebody actually stole. But waste and overspending, we're going to find that pretty quickly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So it's a process, people. And I, for one, trust the process because we're overspending massively. Let's get to some other conversations here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
I think they need investigative journalists. I'm happy to help with this. I'll do a Doge pod. You know, listen, I'm not part of the administration. Everybody knows I was a Never Trumper. I'm independent, blah, blah, blah. Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer. I would totally go in there and I would do a Doge pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Telling people I was a never Trumper. But if Trump is going to surround himself with the moderate Democrats.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
I like to think so. I try to be independent, call balls and strikes here on the program. I'm not going to bend the knee to the administration. I'm going to be critical of Trump coin. I'm going to be critical of these deportations, which we're going to get to. And I will say critical things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
But I would go in there and I would do the doge pod with Elon or whoever in the group is and go point by point through these things to explain it to the American public. Let's keep moving here. We got such a full docket. I want to talk about Signalgate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Maybe I should go in there. Listen, I don't even consider this like a Trump administration now. I consider this a Democratic moderate administration. Everybody around Trump now is a Democrat. I think I might be in. I might be in. You guys look like you had a good time. You guys look like you had a good time last week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
It looked like fun.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
I don't want to bring in my vote. I did not vote for Kamala. Let's keep moving here. I'm going to keep dropping hints. Wow. My gosh. I did not vote for Kamala. I couldn't vote for her. She's a... I don't want to say it, but... Anyway, let's keep going. I don't want to vote for somebody who was selected. I wanted to vote for somebody who had a primary.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And the Democrats, disgrats the odd for not having a speed run primary. Signalgate, that's the biggest story in America right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
No, I mean, listen, I'm going to call balls and strikes. Right now, 70% of what they're doing, I agree with. 30%, I don't. I'm going to get to the 30% on a human rights basis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Anyway, let's keep moving here. I'm from the great state of Texas. I'll leave it at that. Signalgate, Signalgate, Signalgate. On Monday, the Atlantic published a story titled, The Trump Administration Accidentally Texted Me Their War Plan Somehow. Atlantic Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg was added to a super high-profile signal group.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
with our Secretary of State, our Vice President, Tulsi Besant, the CIA director, the Secretary of Defense. How is this possible, folks? They added a journalist, the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, to their war planning signal group. They shouldn't be using signal, obviously, to do this stuff. And inside this group, they discussed the plans to strike Houthi targets across Yemen, Nobody noticed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Nobody checked that the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic was in the group chat. They included the exact targets, the actions, the timing of all of this. It was apparently cut and pasted from some other system by HEGSEP, our secretary of defense and former Fox commentator. That's not a dig. It's just a fact. I'm not saying it as a dig. Chamath. People are losing their mind over this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
I could get into all the details. I think most people know it because it's taking up the whole... all the oxygen in the room, in the media, in the group chats. Number one, what's your general take on what happened here? How stupid is this? How ridiculous is it? Does it matter? Go ahead, Shamal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
That's the context of why they did the attack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The second thing I'll say is- And we're going to send the bill to Europe because- This is really a European problem because we have the whole Pacific Ocean we can accept things through. We can go to ports in Texas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So it's a mistake. it's a stupid mistake.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Give it a Scaramucci or two. Should somebody resign? Should somebody be fired?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Freedom of Information Act. This is to have a functioning democracy. What you're talking about here, Friedberg, is people who work for us should not be able to end run their communication. And that's the law.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Well, what do you think, Freeberg? I mean, we get it. There's a, what do you personally think? Like, what do you, David Freeberg, the Sultan of Science, think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Let me give a take here. This is a serious issue. They shouldn't be doing it for obvious reasons. It's very easy to hack personal phones. And they do have a way to do this, which is called the SCIF. And there's other places for them to have secure communication. And as you point out, they work for the American people. They should be a recidivist. They're breaking the law by doing this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So the administration should not be breaking the law. Obviously, we don't want them to do that. Also, HEXA clearly took... of report of the attack plan, cut and pasted it from some server somewhere and then pasted it over. This is a known vector, your clipboard is what it's called.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And this is an attack vector that you know, anybody who's in it, or has basic security training knows that you can get your clipboard hacked very easily. They need to take ownership of it. And this is one of the things that this administration and this group does very poorly. Instead of taking ownership, like Jamal said here, just take just own it. No big deal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
This is a, you know, a chance for us to learn and iterate on the security protocols, yada, yada, we apologize. Let's move on. They attack. And this is Trump's like playbook, we have to attack the journalists. So what did they do? They attack the journalists, they take no ownership.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And the second thing, which is administration really has an Achilles heel floor is on top of just taking not taking ownership and attacking. um, the hypocrisy because this was the entirety of the anti-Hillary movement was, oh my God, she did this exact same thing with her email and Republicans had a long list of, oh my God, here's, hold on, I'll finish. You'll get your chance to defend your boys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
The point is it's complete, utter hypocrisy and it's distasteful to attack the journalists, which you added. This is incompetence. It's a mistake. Own it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And then every single person's phone has to get dumped now. And so they're not doing a good job communicating what they're going to do to make sure that somebody hasn't gotten onto everybody's personal phone. Why are they doing this on their personal phones? As Chamath, you very much pointed out, these are attack vectors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
They should be using the phones issued to them for these communications, not their personal devices.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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He- He tried to figure out, okay, your opinion is wrong in this case. He tried to figure out what was going on here. And then when he did figure out it, he contacted them and removed himself. He didn't stay on there indefinitely. If he did that, that would be wrong. But for him to be added to something, he may have been being attacked himself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And the other reason you're wrong is they went on the attack immediately and they denied that there was anything wrong. They did not take ownership of it. And that's why we're having this debate right now is they don't take ownership of these things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
They're using their personal devices. I think that's the problem. Why is anybody in government using a personal device to share plans? How do you know that? Because they said it was their personal devices. They've said it. This has been established that they did this on their personal devices. That's totally established now. Okay. So... And they have skiffs for this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
They're all within 10 feet of a skiff at all times. Their SUVs are skiffs. Their offices are skiffs. Gavin, you have any final thoughts before we move on to the-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, I think it's an important note. Okay, let's move on to our final two stories. The Trump administration has deported 238 alleged gang members to a pretty severe prison called Secot, C-E-C-O-T, prison in El Salvador. Here's a clip of them being dragged out of the United States and put into this extremely notorious prison. prison. This was all done under the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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This allows the president to detain and deport individuals without due process from, quote, an enemy nation during an invasion or, quote, predatory incursion. It's been used before, but only during actual wars. FDR used it to deport thousands of Germans, Italians, Japanese during World War Two.
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The Trump administration is claiming that the gang members were sent to the US intentionally calling them a hybrid criminal state. Not surprisingly, most of them were not all of them had criminal records in the US. This was confirmed by ICE. And obviously, some number of them.
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appear to have been misidentified as gang members or terrorists i can tell you you know coming from a law enforcement family and just looking at the statistics out of 238 you're not going to bat a thousand so maybe you get a couple of these wrong former pro soccer player jersey reyes barrios he fled venezuela after being tortured by the government for protesting he's a refugee
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
He has been mistaken for a gang member, according to his people, because he's got an arm tattoo supporting his favorite club, Real Madrid. And there is a social media post that ICE officials believe featured him making gang signs, but it was actually the language for I love you, according to his attorney. Second example, a shoe salesman and social media influencer, Norberto Rodriguez.
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He fled Venezuela for Colombia out of desperation because he and his family were starving. He's a father of three. He was also suspected because of a tattoo, which features playing cards and dice. His family says he got it to cover a scar on his forearm. And third and final example, stylist and makeup artist, Andre Hernandez. He is being represented by the Immigration Defenders Law Center.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
He claims he has no criminal history. He sought asylum after fleeing Venezuela, where he was persecuted for being gay. Again, his arrest was based on tattoos. That is, attorneys claim are not gang-affiliated. This has caused a U.S. district judge to pause these deportations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The administration has apparently continued these deportations, and they're even gloating by doing videos, highly produced videos, threatening people with the prison in El Salvador, again, the CICOT. Your thoughts, Chamath, on this extradition process, if any?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Gavin, your thoughts?
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We're 4.5% of the way through the second term and it feels like.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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It's brutal. It ain't easy here. This is such a good point, though, Gavin. Continue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And just to clarify that that's accounts receivable. That's the money owed to you by customers for the audience who might have a question what they are exactly. And The reason they're not collecting it is because they haven't delivered it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Maybe you have to say that to get out. Who knows?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, we don't want to compromise that value. It's incredibly dangerous. Yeah, incredibly dangerous. We've been riding on a bit of a high. And I think there's a couple of things here this administration could do better. And communicating when they make a mistake, and then human rights is such a core part.
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I believe, me, Jason Calacanis, believes that there is a sadistic nature to this administration. It is an Achilles heel for them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And when you see them doing videos from these prisons and saying, this is going to happen to you, and this prison is known for torture, and this prison is known for just absolutely the most abhorrent issues in the world, this is the sadistic nature of this administration that I think they need to drop because it is going to derail them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Got it. Because it's a new thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And people care in this country deeply about human rights and process. And there is a constitutional... issue right now, because Trump and this administration is disobeying the court when they say, hey, let's slow down here.
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There is no cost, zero cost to Americans sending these people to a weigh station and investigating each of these cases to make sure we don't send a gay hairdresser to El Salvador, another country to be tortured in prison, if that is in fact the case. And it is against the all American principles to not have due process and to have innocent people potentially go to jail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And what all Republicans should do is hear say, this is going to derail the administration. These are the things that will build up over time. And people just pragmatically speaking, people in America who are rooting for this administration to do some good things like I am, when they do stuff like this, and I represent a large swath of people, it loses them votes. And this is why they I predict,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
This is why they will lose the midterms if they continue to do this type of stuff. That's my position. It's not virtual signaling. I've cared about human rights long before the All In podcast existed. My first job was working at Amnesty International. And this is a giant mistake by this administration. Gavin, you had some thoughts?
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Well, he is definitely doing keynotes like Intel did and trying to brand the actual names of the units, which is, yeah, it was interesting. Pentium inside. People would go and buy a computer and say, does it have a Pentium? And which Pentium does it have? And now Apple's doing that same thing with the M4 series and people are actually asking questions. So there is something to it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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that maybe some portion of the consumer base wants to know what's inside, right? And doesn't cost much to brand. Since we're here, let's talk a little bit about the core weave IPO core weave is going to go public on Friday, we tape on Thursday. So when you listen to this episode, you will have the actual data on what happened with their IPO. They're going to raise 1.5 billion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
They're a Neo cloud. Neo cloud means not just cloud computing, but a new cloud, thus Neo. And this company has really been growing quickly. It was reported they wanted to raise $2 billion, and I guess they stepped it down to $1.5 billion at a $23 billion valuation. They had $2 billion in revenue last year, so they're up 8x, and they've got a lot of debt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
That's the other issue with CoreWeave that people note, almost $8 billion in debt. And one customer, Microsoft, accounts for over 60% of their revenue, always a bit of a red flag there. As Chamath mentioned, NVIDIA accounts for 15% of their revenue, and they own 6%. 6% seems small enough to not make a difference.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So Gavin, I guess, what do you make of this company core weave and their timing what it says about the markets? Because hey, this is the biggest IPO we've had in a bit. I think maybe the last ones that were notable were Reddit last year and a couple of other companies got out. Obviously, Stripe hasn't gotten out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So is this a major milestone or are they going out because they have to go out because of all this debt? And then this is all against maybe a backdrop of did we overbuild and are these language models going to require as much hardware as we thought last year?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one state sponsor. I'm sorry. All in podcast in the world. The number one podcast. Oh, sorry. Stray bullets. Here we go. Back on the program. Our guy, Gavin Baker, is here. You know him from a treaties management does private and public four billion under management. And lots to talk about with you. GB1. Good to have you here. GB1 is here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
Would there be an analogy for that? When people thought AWS would never work at the beginning, they were like, who's going to trust Amazon with their compute? And it was difficult, and developers didn't understand exactly how to abstract their services into the cloud.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
And it's great to see a competitor to the existing three or four clouds that are out there. And it's great to see a company go public. I mean, M&A with Wiz and now CoreWeave going public. Rathalina Khan is over. We've got to give the administration a lot of credit for maybe removing the roadblocks to M&A and IPOs, or at least people perceive that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The AI Cold War, Signalgate, CoreWeave IPO, Tariff Endgames, El Salvador Deportations
So I don't know if perception becomes reality here, but it does seem like M&A is a bit on fire. Yeah, Gavin? And people are talking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Okay, go ahead, Satire Sacks. Well, look, who are you going to believe? The J-Cal's uninformed, non-expert opinion or the expert medical opinion of Dr. Jill Biden? with her doctorate in education.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
First Lady Macbeth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
He looks so happy in that moment, getting that approval. I mean, give the man some milk and cookies. I mean, he was delighted. I mean, literally let the man retire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
That is really scary. It's a really good point. That's really scary. is because there is no Biden. Biden is just the staff. So why would the staff ever fire themselves? And this is why it's actually important to have a leader at the top, to have a commander in chief, as opposed to just a shadow government consisting of party apparatchiks. And that's what we have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
The problem is when the staff gets something wrong, there's no one there to fire them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Because that would be firing themselves, Chamath. No, no, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think the real embarrassment for the media was the fact that they were exposed. The fact of the matter is, for months, if not years, they've been saying that this candidate is fine. He is cognitively fit. In fact, he's the best he's ever been. I've had two-hour lunches with him. He's wonderful. That's what they've been telling us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And the reason why their panic was so visceral last night in all these post-game wrap-up shows is they saw their credibility going down the drain. They saw that they had been exposed. It wasn't just the fact that Biden was exposed. They were exposed for putting out this North Korea-level propaganda for months and years. And everybody should understand these people were part of the cover-up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It wasn't just the Biden team who wants to hold on to their jobs. It was the media. It was this entire Democratic Party apparatus. They're all in on this giant con.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Let's just put it plainly. The Democratic Party is a collection of interests who want to remain in power. The Democratic Party is the party of government. Its goal is to allocate money and power from the government to the collection of interests who back the Democratic Party. In other words, it's basically a collection of interests who want to loot the republic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, obviously, no one's going to vote for that. So they have to make it about something else. They choose a figurehead. They talk about how this is about saving democracy. They basically invent hoax after hoax, lie after lie to basically maintain their power. And I think what's happened is the mask has come off. The whole thing, the whole shell game has been revealed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's obvious that Biden was always a puppet. for these interests who are hiding behind him. And now it's all being exposed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Right, and if people had listened a year ago to Dean Phillips, then the voters in the Democratic primary could have made a different choice. They could have maybe replaced Joe Biden, but the party elders and the powers that be did not let that happen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And now they're in a panic a year later trying to do a hot swap because it's manifest to everyone, to the American public, that Joe Biden is not fit to serve. But the real time to, hold on, let me just speak to the hot swap for a second. The time to do the hot swap was a year ago when Democratic primary voters could have voted for someone new.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
The problem you have now, J. Cal, I actually think that on balance, the hot swap is not going to happen. Let me just tell you why. I think you make a really good argument for it. Nonetheless... The reason it's not going to happen is that Joe Biden and Jill Biden have come out this morning and said there's no way that he's stepping down. It was just one bad night. He's fit to serve.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
There is no mechanism to replace a nominee who's already won all the necessary primary votes without their consent. So if the Bidens are saying we're not stepping down, there's no mechanism to force them to step down. And that's the situation we're in right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Let me finish my point. Yeah. They can pressure him. And that's what you're talking about is they're going to try and leverage him out. But the truth of the matter is that if they can't find the right leverage points, he does not have to step down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
You need money to run these things. All right, look, just one other final problem with the hot swap theory is not only is there no mechanism to force Biden to do it, but I don't think there's a consensus. right now on who the replacement would be. The fact of the matter is that Kamala Harris is next in line and she pulls even worse numbers than Biden does.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
So there's every reason to believe that she would do worse than Biden in the election. And I think it's not going to be easy to basically shiv her and push her aside. And so you can talk about Newsom, you can talk about Michelle Obama, you can talk about Hillary Clinton. The fact of the matter is that I think you're going to have a big Kamala problem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And because of that, you know, there's no mechanism and there's no clear replacement. I think that although a lot of people are going to say what you said, J. Cal, about the hot spot being desirable, I think at the end of the day, on balance, probably not going to happen, although certainly I admit it could.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
You could be right, but they've got to work out those two problems. They've got to work out those two problems.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I would not bet a lot of money on this because I'm not sure. I'm just raising some problems with the hot swap theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Of course. Yeah, because you're not a donor. They only care if you donate. And you're not a donor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Yeah, let's hear it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
We already knew that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
You've also eliminated Trump. You've also eliminated Bobby Kennedy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Maybe Cornel West? Let's move forward.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
people with you know really high-end degrees and really high-end salary expectations well i agree with jamatha it's just too soon for ai to be responsible for this i mean the ai productivity gains are just starting and we're not really seeing job elimination yet or job replacement i think this is just a symptom of economic weakness and the main reason for the economic
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
weakness is the rate hike cycle. Remember, we went from practically 0% interest rates to 5.5% in one year. And a lot of people were expecting that to cause a recession. That's normally what happens when you get a very, very rapid rate hike cycle, is it sucks liquidity out of the economy and it contracts economic activity and you get a recession.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I was one of the people who thought that, and that didn't happen. I think one of the reasons it didn't happen is there was a huge backlog of jobs, of sort of open job postings. I think originally it started at 12 million open jobs. Well, what's happened is the rise in interest rates has created some economic weakness. It's caused a reduction in liquidity and investment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's created more pressure on companies to be profitable. And so all those things have cascaded through. And what it's doing is it's burning off this job backlog. So we haven't necessarily seen unemployment yet, but we're seeing a reduction in the job postings. And I think that's what's going on. And I would just say that the economy may not be in recession yet, but I just think it's weak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And this is just one metric showing that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I'll answer your question, Jake. I mean, what I see from our portfolio companies is hiring has got easier. It is way higher, much easier to hire devs right now, software developers than two years ago. No question about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, for a long time on this show, I've been saying that you need to clean up that. convoluted Byzantine corporate structure with all the line charts everywhere. That structure is what created all the problems with this nonprofit board that they had. You've got a for-profit entity reporting to a nonprofit board. It created a culture clash.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And as we've said before on the show, it's not a good idea for startups to innovate on structure. Using a tried and true C-corp is the way to go. You're ready for IPO if you ever get that far. You don't need to restructure the company. It was always funky and weird that OpenAI had this nonprofit structure. And really, they should have fixed it years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And like I said, given Elon his equity, given Sam his CEO package, and they didn't do either one of those things. And so now they're left with this...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
crazy org chart that's a mess and I'm not even sure I mean I think it's I think you would want to clean it up as soon as you can because I think my sense is that the longer you wait on these things the harder it actually gets but yeah more calcified these things get I'm not sure how easy it is to actually fix this thing but yes they should fix it They should make it a standard C Corp.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
They should make things right with Elon because he provided the first $40 million of seed capital. They should make it right with Sam. He should get his CEO comp. And then they should IPO so that the public actually has the ability to invest in this AI wave and ride this wave the same way they did with the whole dot-com boom. in the late 90s.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I mean, a lot of those dot-com companies didn't work out, but some of them did. Amazon, Google, and so on. And the public had the opportunity to participate in that huge wave of innovation. And I think we could have something like that happen here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, no, it will affect the public if they can buy shares and they get to participate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Yeah, but OpenAI is one of the leading companies of the AI wave. It is the leading company. It's the leading company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, no, I don't think so. I mean, we saw a lot of these companies that you could have said that about NVIDIA and it basically went up 30x.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
My argument is that it'd be good for OpenAI to clean up its Byzantine cap table and structure. And it would be good for the public to be able to have the opportunity to invest. So it's a win-win. I'm not saying they have to do it this minute. I mean, I think that it does take time. to get your reporting to the level of maturity necessary to be a public company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And you don't want your earnings or your revenue, you don't want your numbers to be volatile.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I was going to say, you know, that question that you asked is really a highly personal question because you could think that OpenAI is a great company that's going to be worth a trillion dollars in the future. Sure. But it still makes sense for you to take chips off the table because 100% of your net worth is in that one company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I would take some chips off the table. Half?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I mean, you're an insider. So maybe you have a lot of information. If you were really bullish on the future of the company, maybe you take 10 or 20% of your chips off the table. If you're less bullish, maybe it is 50%. So I don't know. I'd be influenced by my perspective on that. But I think that you could think it's the greatest company in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And still, it would make sense for you to take some chips off the table because you don't want all your eggs in one basket. That's a personal diversification decision.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, yeah, they're borrowing their way into the deep state. I mean, the quid pro quo is we will be your vessel. We will be an arm of the intelligence community, of the deep state. We'll give you access to whatever it is you're looking for. And in exchange, you're going to basically protect us and allow us to get rich. And frankly, that's the deal that all the big tech companies have made.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
They are all in bed with the intelligence community. And we saw this in the Twitter files. where every week for the year before the 2020 election, there were meetings between the trust and safety people, the censorship division of Twitter, and the intelligence community. So these people are working arm in arm
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And basically the big tech companies have given themselves over in a way to this powerful apparatus, this, you know, the deep state in exchange for, you know, they're willing to basically give up power in exchange to be left unfettered to make their money. I think it's a horrible development for the civil liberties of the ordinary American. But I think that is a reality of what has transpired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Yeah. Give us your opinion. Let me caveat what I'm about to say by saying that I have not heard the pitch directly for this company. I've only read what you've read in the press. What they're trying to do is the safe superintelligence. And I'm not bullish about that pitch because I think it – It makes the company a little bit schizophrenic. It's working at cross purposes with itself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
On the one hand, you're a new company, which means you're behind. You've got to catch up with OpenAI or Google, these other companies that now have been creating models for years. So you've got to move very fast. On the other hand, you're saying you're going to basically make this very safe. Well, to be frank, safety concerns are a brake pedal. They don't help you move faster.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
They make you move slower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And in fact, I think that this is the main reason why Sam Altman either kicked these people out of the company or starved their resources until they left. Remember, when a bunch of these people left OpenAI, they said that, hey, we were originally promised 30% of the computing resources by Sam, and then he reneged on that promise and didn't give us what we needed, so they all left.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think that wasn't by accident. I mean, I think that Sam wants to win. He wants to develop AI as quickly as possible, specifically AGI. And he had this group inside the company that, frankly, was a lobby for moving slower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Right. But I don't think that's the recipe for winning because you're the guys who want to move slower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think that's a little bit harsh because I do think that by all accounts, Karpathy is like a top, top-notch technologist. And he's one of the leaders in the space. But I do think that he's going to be hamstrung by his own concerns about safety. And I think this is maybe the tragic situation is we're going to have this competition between by all these different companies to advance AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And the companies that care about safety more than others are gonna lose. And so you have this Darwinian effect going on where there's gonna be a race to AGI. And I think that is genuinely a little bit scary for where this all leads us. But I tend to think that it's not going to be solved by trying to impose the safety governor, as you said.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I think maybe the best you can do is impose a truth governor. So, you know, Elon says that we're going to make sure that our model at XAI, the Grok model, is scrupulously honest. It's not going to lie to you. And I think maybe that's the best you can do is advance AI to be truthful. But when you start injecting these other safety concerns, I just think it slows you down and hamstrings you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
If Microsoft can basically clone the breakthrough innovative product, let's say they do one every year, and then they put a crappy version of that in their bundle. Yeah, 10% or 50% worse, but they give it away effectively for free as part of the bundle. And then they basically pull the legs out from under that other company so it can't be a vibrant competitor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And then the next year, they'll just raise the price of the bundle, right? And they've done that with Slack. They've done that with Okta. They've done that with Zoom. Can we have a vibrant tech ecosystem, at least in B2B software, if Microsoft can just keep doing that indefinitely?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think the EU made the right decision here. They basically sided with Salesforce, who made the complaint and said that Microsoft was engaged in illegal bundling by combining Microsoft Office and Teams. And the reality is Microsoft Office is a product that every company has to have, certainly every enterprise has to have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And by bundling, it means that that enterprise receives the Teams product for free until, of course, the price of the bundle goes up the next year, which it has just about every single year. So what that does is when that enterprise is evaluating the choice of do we use Teams or do we use Slack or, for example, Glue or some other tool, Teams on the margin appears to be free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
whereas Slack is something you'd have to pay for seats. And I think that is illegal bundling. You know, when you have a monopoly in one product and you systematically use it to keep adding new products that, again, on the margins appear to be free because you've bundled them. And I think the EU has done the right thing here, which is push to end the bundling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Every single product needs to have its own a la carte pricing. And when you add together the a la carte prices, It should equal the price of the bundle. So in other words, you don't get anything on the margin for free. The customer needs to have the discretion to choose what it wants.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
If we don't do that, I do think that Microsoft will use the power of the bundle to systematically dominate enterprise software. And they won't take on everybody at once. But like I said, every year they'll add a new product to the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's not free. It appears to be free on the margins because it's now part of the bundle. But then they raise the price of the bundle the next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
So once they've killed, once they've pulled the legs out, pulled the rug out from under their competition, and that competitor is no longer viable, now they can raise the price of the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
okay and so it's kind of like dumping in a way i mean this is a very old antitrust argument when you would dump product in the market to kill a competitor or you would price under your cost to kill a competitor right yeah you dump to basically drive a competitor out of business because there's large cost of entry there's large capex required to create a new competitor and um and this is this is basically what they're doing is they appear to give you they appear to give you
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
the Slack clone or whatever for free. But then once they've pulled the rug out, they'll increase the price of the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Look, what we've said all along is that the right approach to antitrust is to stop anti-competitive tactics. Bundling is at the top of the list. Instead, what they've stopped is all M&A, which is actually bad for the ecosystem because you deny risk capital a reward, and you need that reward in order to induce the next stage of risk-taking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
So again, I think this was a good decision by the EU regulators and the competition authorities in the US should actually be looking to this. Again, it's a better approach than stifling M&A.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's fine to bundle commodities, but when a product is a monopoly and every enterprise must have it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And the whole benefit of SaaS is that you can switch all the time. Those options are on market power.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Microsoft Office is standard. It's standard in what? In the enterprise market.
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Look, once they put Teams in the bundle, Slack stopped growing.
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No, you're not, because once they kill Slack, they'll just raise the price of the bundle. That's the point.
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Why can't you just make Microsoft- The idea of having a bundle should not be a violating action. No, all Microsoft has to do is they've got a price of the bundle. allocate that price across all the components of the bundle so people can buy each product a la carte. That's all. They can still sell a bundled offering.
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It can be cheaper.
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Okay. Well, the debate continues. Furthermore, I mean, on this very show, we were arguing that the Figma acquisition should go through because it created a new market for web designers, whereas Photoshop was basically for... Graphic designers.
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All right. We're not going to settle it here. And there's a difference between a bundle and a suite. Suites are okay. Bundling, when you already have a monopoly in the relevant part of the bundle.
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Satire Sacks wants to say one more thing.
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No, let's put this tweet by Joe Biden, President Biden.
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No, I want to compliment Joe Biden on continuing to fight. You keep fighting, Joe. Do not let the media get you down. One bad night is not a reason to get out of the race. All these people stabbing you in the back, they're basically ingrates and backstabbers. You're doing just fine.
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We need to get merchies already.
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Well, let me speak as an objective and independent political observer. Okay. Just as independent as you, J. Cal. Yes, let's do that. Let's be independent today, show. Yeah. Look, anyone can have a bad night. Absolutely. Got the sniffles. His campaign put out the word that he had a cold and maybe he just had a bad night.
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I mean, after all, it was media people like Joe Scoresboro just saying a week ago that not only was Biden cognitively fine, but in fact, he was the best Joe Biden he had ever seen. Just a week ago or two weeks ago, Reid Hoffman was saying that he had a two-hour lunch with Joe Biden and Biden was regaling him with details of AI and Gaza and he was good.
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And so what we've heard from all of these highly reputable people is that Biden may not present that well in public, but in private, he's just fine.
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Well, I'm actually taking them at their word because they seem like very trustworthy sources to me. I see no reason to swap out this candidate. I think that anyone can have a bad night. And there's no reason whatsoever for the media to be panicking like this. Satire sucks. Satire sucks. Satire sucks is into the chat.
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Well, I mean, look, I think that there's no reason for this kind of panic. I believe in democracy. And the Democratic primary voters have spoken. This is the candidate who they voted for. Okay. Stand by your message. Stand by your message. Stop being a wimp. Just because your candidate had one bad night, you don't stab him in the back like this.
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And even I think Van Jones said, that Republicans wouldn't do this if Trump had a bad night. He's like, why are we all stabbing Biden in the back? So look, this is a candidate who you've been supporting for years. This is a candidate who you rigged the primaries for. You boxed out Bobby Kennedy, who I thought was a fantastic candidate. You basically boxed out Dean Phillips.
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This is the candidate who you wanted. And who just days ago, you were saying, was completely mentally fit. In fact, the best he'd ever been.
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J. Cal's right about this, actually.
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So we had a dinner where me and Friedberg and J. Cal were invited to have dinner with the folks from and their other top podcasters.
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I know that you saw the picture and it was basically like Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, Tesla kind of CEOs, et cetera, founders. Arno was there. Mukesh Ambani was there. So it's just business people from the entire world were there. And so I think what it says is, America is going to basically turn a totally new page. We're not going to ostracize people. We're not going to play favorites.
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That's the other thing. You know, Elon was there right at the beginning. But if you saw all the CEOs of the, you know, major companies were there. It's not like he excluded Zuck because of his past issues or anything.
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Or Sam Alton. That was the biggest takeaway.
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That the president doesn't play favorites, that this is like Team America kind of thing. And it was a projection of tremendous power to the rest of the world. This is what America is about. I loved every minute of it. And I think that this is exactly how the American government should be working, which is hand in hand with private industry to basically set the pace for the rest of the world.
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It was really, really, really fun.
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Don't worry, we're going to go through behind the scenes in a second.
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By the way, I mean, Armani couture is like firing on all cylinders. The other one, which you'll see, is a great picture of this incredible jacket. Louisa Beccaria. Two shout-outs. Armani and Louisa Beccaria.
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Can I say a little bit on that first topic? I just want to double down on that because one of the things that some folks said, and I guess it makes sense now that you think about it, but when you look at the confirmation hearings, there are certain folks for whom The resource allocation is relatively modest inside of America. They tend to just do much better in general.
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And if you saw Marco Rubio's confirmation process, it was like 99 to zero, right? And to your point, what they say is that folks that actually allocate the internal spending in the United States gets a lot more scrutiny because there's all of this horse trading because they want some of this money to get allocated into their specific area. It is going to be a very complicated thing.
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The one thing, though, that changed, I don't know if you saw, but Doge was meant to be outside the auspices of the government, and it wasn't actually a government department. And it'll be interesting to understand when it's explained, but in the 11th hour, the EO that established Doge established it actually as a governmental agency.
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Now that we've talked about that, we'll talk about my wardrobe when the time comes. Just get through the rest of the interest. All right, all right.
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The one comment I'll say about Bernie Sanders is when Russ Vogt, who is the nominee to run OMB, went through his confirmation yesterday, Sanders asked a similar question around Medicare and Medicaid. And what was interesting is Russ tried to actually answer the question and give the details around where there can be waste, fraud, and abuse. Sanders really didn't want to hear it.
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He just wanted a soundbite. So I think these confirmation processes are... Performative? They're hugely performative.
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I do think that, and this applies, I think, to both sides, Democrats as well, when they are eventually in power. I think that when you're given a very clear mandate as a president, I think you should be able to get to pick your team. Because it's clear that the American people have voted an agenda. It's not like he hid that agenda.
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And so the people that then want to implement that agenda should be put on the field.
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Tell us about your feelings and takeaways about the weekend.
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Be honest.
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Come on. You do kind of like him.
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Before you go your diatribe, just say it. Just say you like him.
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You want to say it?
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No, no, no. I'm just saying you kind of like him. Just say you kind of like him. You do like him. I like 80% of his platform this time around. No, him. Him as a person.
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Because you like him. I know you can't say it yet, but deep down inside, you like him.
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The Republicans are fun.
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Make America beautiful again. My gosh. Hey, man, listen. No more jogging pants and white fox. Get rid of it. Burn it to the ground.
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You're such a troll.
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Sorry, who? Who, Millay?
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Thomas, you guys remember when Davos used to be a really big deal? Is it dead?
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The gentleman, by the way, that spoke after Graham Allison is also very good. This is incredible.
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Thank you. All natural, baby. It's great. It's great. What product do you put in? Yeah. Do you put product? Sea salt?
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No, but you don't use any product afterwards? None. Jesus Christ. Do you blow yourself or do you have it blown?
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Okay. Yeah, this is where I do have to admit, unfortunately, after you appeared on the summit, I had all these women, they were like, oh my God, Thomas Lafont is so good looking. And I was like, no, he's not. Because I'm very competitive in zero sum when other men around me get... You were the smash hit. And then I figured out it must be the hair and also the glasses.
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I think the glasses were a huge hit. It looked very Clark Kent-ish.
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Bingo. All-in podcast. Well, the funniest thing is my wife thinks I'm bullshitting all the time. I say this is a- Mine too. Pretty reasonably successful and well, she doesn't believe it. She thinks we're all bullshitting.
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You're missing the one part, which is that Thomas was one of the highest-rated speakers that we had at the All-In Summit.
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He's so mad. You know why he's mad? Why is he so mad? Because I'll tell you why. Please. Okay. What did I do this time? This is for the audience. Jason is complaining all week in the group chat that he has influenza A. He's sending pictures of him getting IVs. That's true. And so Freeburg- the conscientious guy and co-founder of the pod that he is, says, I will moderate.
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It's the exact opposite of China. The message is very clear. And it's what Thomas said. Technology is a national security imperative. And so we're going to embrace these guys. We're not going to play favorites. We're not going to pick one and not the other. We're not going to have summits and have the founder of an entire category not be invited. That's just...
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Honestly, it's patently stupid and immature. And that's what the Biden administration did. Picked favorites. And that is dumb based on the implication and importance of technology. I just want to go back to the TikTok thing. I want to make three points. One is from the past. I'll give you my sense of the TikTok thing, and I'm going to make a prediction for the future.
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In 1984, the way that LVMH began was through a deal that Bernard Arnault architected. There was a business owned by the French cotton king, Marcel Boussac, and inside of that empire was Christian Dior. Long story short, his empire was crumbling, and Arnault did a deal where he bought that dying business essentially from the French government for one franc.
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And then he invests his time, okay? He's got a lot of things going on. He's got three kids plus one away. He's running a company. Strawberries. He prepares. And then you wake up after a dose of Tamiflu and decide, no, I'm ready to moderate. Of course. And you can't just do that because it's not nice. All right.
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Fast forward now 40 years of very hard work and tremendous execution, that's a $350 billion public company. Now, imagine back then in 1984, if the French government actually had done a deal where they said, we'll sell it to you for 50% of whatever you build, take it for a dollar, but we're going to own 50% of the upside. And they would have an extra $175 billion today.
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I think that that's very important in terms of what is possible today. I like Thomas' math. I believe it. I do think it's about a $100 billion asset. But at the end of the day, the president was very clear that it is completely and entirely worthless without his permit, and he wants to own 50% of this asset.
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Now, if you're a buyer of something, you're not going to pay $100 billion if you control whether it can exist or not. You're basically going to pay today's equivalent of one franc, which would be $1.
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Now, I'm not saying that it is going to be a dollar, but if the United States Treasury wants to hold 50% of an asset that could be worth $100 billion or $500 billion or maybe a trillion, it would make sense for the United States Treasury and the United States people to own that at effectively zero.
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So I think that the incentive is there, and I think he has essentially said that he is going to do the best deal in his interests, which is the United States' interests, which I suspect means a price that is as low as possible approaching $1.
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Let it die. Maybe. But my point is, it may not be a dollar. Maybe it could be $25 billion. Maybe it could be $10 billion. But my point is, I find it very hard to see how it gets to the actual value that it is today. So then I think, let me just make a prediction for the future.
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There's a question that this raises, which is, does it make sense for the American government to be a little bit smarter going forward about how it allocates incentives and resources? The American government is still the largest single landowner in America. We give concessions to private companies to drill, to build things. And it just turns out that if you apply this example more broadly,
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Wouldn't it make sense where when you create incredible economic incentives and upside for private investors and investment, for some portion of that gain to go back to the American people? Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.
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For example, if you said we're going to accelerate permitting for all these data centers, we're going to make any form of energy, which was the opposite of what the Biden EO said on his way out the door. He had all these conditions.
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But if the President Trump's CEO on data centers says, any kind of energy, but we want to own a 5% royalty, and we'll allow you to put it on federal lands, or 10%, or 15%. Would it really change the underwriting that Blackstone and all these other companies will do? I don't think so. Would it enrich America? I think so.
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Would it make it easier for people to feel like they're participating in all of these incredible gains? I also think so. So my prediction is that this becomes more of a template for the future It'll be less about permitting. It'll be more about creating incentives and allocating those incentives for a share of the upside.
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And I think that there is a really strong economic argument for America to do that.
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I think the president has sniffed this out, by the way.
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And you may not think that these are related, but when he said that he's considering eliminating federal income tax and funding this thing from tariffs, and he just had a press conference today where he's inviting every single company to come and make things in the United States because he will create economic incentives to make it here cheaper.
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But if you make it abroad and bring it in here, he's going to charge money and a tariff. All of this are part and parcel of, I think, this broader economic realization.
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And unlike 2008, 9, and 10, when we were allocating money, or 2020 and 21 and 22, where we were just sending money out the door with, frankly, no consequence and no accounting, this time around, I think he's got some incredibly sharp business people. This is, by the way, the upside of having folks that have actually been successful in the real world
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working inside of government, is they're going to help him get to this realization. And I think it's a really good one.
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I think you're right. And I think that that part is absolutely fundamental. But I think there is a way to architect this. For example, you have these RFPs that by design have to be published in the open source and available for anybody to bid on. My only point is just to say that when there is an ultimate winner, Why not have a small stake in the upside?
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Look at the amount of money that the DOE gives in grants. I'll give you an example. One of these companies that I helped start a few years ago to make advanced battery materials, we got $150 million grant. I'm very appreciative of that grant. But if they also asked for 5% or 10% of the equity, I would have still said yes. Of course you would have.
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The thing to keep in mind here is I hear all of these kind of like theoretical qualms about how it's unfair, but this stuff happens all the time. And it's just that we don't benefit from it. So Jason brought up an excellent example with Tesla. The other example, just to remind you guys, is during the pandemic, the Federal Reserve stepped in and started buying commercial corporate bonds.
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They own a ton of like Ford bonds so that these things wouldn't default. There's all kinds of action all the time where the federal government is involved in private companies. My point is, if you're going to be involved, have some legacy ownership on the back end of it so that in case this stuff really works, that it's broadly... value creating for more Americans.
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I think it would create a way to deescalate the sensation that a few people are winning and everybody else is just kind of staying still.
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I think that was a smart decision. But you, sir, are a small, bitter man. And so what you did was you wanted to blow up Freeberg's preparation.
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Where do you fall on them?
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I knew that this would be really important to you, so I took a few minutes to try to collect my thoughts. I've been kind of walking myself through it since yesterday. This is not an explanation other than to you, Jason, my friend, about how I think we got here, okay? So I just wanted to take a few minutes to explain that to you.
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I think that before you can look at January 6th, I think you got to go back to what happened during the COVID lockdowns and what we started to see in a bunch of these liberal cities. You're talking about BLM riots? The BLM riots, the Antifa riots, what happened in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, the lawlessness that you see in places like New York, the decarceration movement.
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And I think that what started to happen was a sensation that for the same weight, there were different measures. So For example, if you start to look at some of the deportations that are happening now, it's really quite shocking. I sent Nick a clip of them. Nick, you can just maybe show the first few seconds.
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But you are talking about some incredibly, incredibly violent offenders that were just walking randomly down the street.
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Well, we're going to get Lex soon. So we're going to get Lex soon.
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There's more after this, but there was like a rapist that they picked up in Boston. There's a person that was charged with assault. So there was this sensation, Jason, that was building up for a long time that all of a sudden the law was being applied in very odd ways.
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where depending on what you did, you would get adjudicated in totally different ways based on your political affiliation or your leaning or based on the desire of a district prosecutor to go after one thing or another. Let me just pause. So that's sort of like the thing that was sort of building and cascading. I do agree with you that I think January 6th is kind of like a stain.
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I think there's nothing to be proud of there. But I think what we found out since January 6th is somewhat important. I think the first thing we found out was that there was a bunch of these folks whose convictions were very speculative. I think the Supreme Court already ruled that in June of last year.
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It was like a 63 vote that said at least 350 of these convictions should probably just be thrown out. So there was one body that was that. Then there was a whole bunch of them where, to your point, you took a misdemeanor, you trumped it up to a felony.
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You had all kinds of things where procedural motions were denied for the defense, approved for prosecution, and you had sentences that didn't match the crime. And then you have a president who, frankly, was the subject of lawfare himself. So I think that what would have been better was a more methodical approach to this. I agree with you.
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But I do think that what's happening here is essentially a moment where we can close this entire chapter and we can get back to a focus on observing the law and adjudicating it equally for everybody. And I think that that's probably the best way that we can all deal with this because I think that there was a bunch of pardons that were 100% obvious.
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And then there was a bunch that were just, you know, had to be done because the court was perverted in how they dealt with some of these folks. Then there was a small number, and I don't know the exact number to be fair, Jason. where these folks did some really bad stuff. Now, it's also mixed in with this thing where there was a bunch of informants, then there was a bunch of folks that were paid.
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Anyways, my point is, I just went and I collected that as a way to try to explain to you how- Well, I appreciate you understanding my passion on it and wanting to bring it up. How we got here, I think it's sort of like- I'm well aware of it, yeah. I think we got to put a pin in this and say-
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Both sides should now have enough experience to say, we're going to apply the law equally to everybody going forward from this moment out. Let's just go forward and not look back. I think that's the best thing that we can all do. Let's hope. I'll just leave you with this.
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I also want to talk about the citizenship thing. And I just want to just provide a little color for people. I'm sure that there's a lot of folks that are listening who have people that work for them that, you know...
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Let's start with actually just... Thomas, did you watch any of it on TV? Did you think about going? It was really like there were so many tech people in Washington this weekend.
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This is going to the Supreme Court. And just to put a little bit of color on it, in the 14th Amendment, there's this very important part that says birthright citizenship is applied to people who are subject to the jurisdiction of America. And for a long time, that phrase was not really considered in how the Supreme Court administered the 14th Amendment.
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I think what this EO did and the lawsuits that happened almost instantaneously as a result will now send this back to the Supreme Court very quickly, and people will opine on what that means. If it means nothing, it means that if you are here, however you're here, and if you have a child, they're going to be a citizen of America.
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If that qualifier is now part of the administration and the interpretation of the 14th Amendment, I think what President Trump has written is what will happen, which is if you are here illegally, it doesn't apply. If you are here under a visa that necessarily means you're still subject to the jurisdiction of somebody else, it may not apply.
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But I think the Supreme Court is going to get to decide this in pretty short order.
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When his LPs, they're going to be so happy. But then when they hear the J6, they're just going to be clenched waiting for this.
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Okay, well, we'll just go behind the scenes. First of all, it's hard to see that this was me dressed up for Sax's ball. I really brought the heat. This is, by the way, Luca Rubinacci is the tailor here. It's hard to see my jacket. Is that a blue coat? So this is what I'm saying. I think the picture is very hard to see, but it's a very refined green paisley. Subtle. Hard to bring it out.
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Can we just say it, Nick? You got to beep it up. Power move. When the podcast called, you're like, nope, can't do it. Nope, sorry. I'm waiting for the real deal. I don't need JV.
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There's nobody like him. Incredible. Incredible. You're 100% right. You got to give the man his flowers. He is the guy.
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Or just lever it up and use debt.
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Now, I will say this was the most popular shirt over the entire weekend. This is just the simple Brioni tuxedo shirt. There's 200 versions of it. I felt bad when I saw because normally I don't like to wear things that other people are wearing.
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Chamath, how do you look at this? I think that value and money are correlated in some industries, like real estate or heavy industry, but I don't think that it's very correlated in tech. And I tried to say this in my tweet. I don't know, Nick, can you find this tweet where I was just talking about the DeepSeek model? So what did we see last week?
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We saw a model that got released by the Chinese under, by the way, a totally open source MIT license. that you can run on a laptop. And it turned out to be as good as OpenAI's O1 model, so a couple of versions old. But the point is that this model cost millions of dollars and was able to compete with a model that took billions of dollars to train.
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So this is us at the, this is us at the crypto ball.
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So my takeaway from that was that these costs are falling really precipitously. So that's sort of my one observation is spending more money doesn't necessarily get you further along if the goal is progress. And I think that that's very true in what we're learning about AI because we're learning as we go along.
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So then I think it just brings up this question of what is the point of saying all these grandiose numbers?
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And this is where, if you look at a different industry, like if an oil company came into the Oval and said they were about to spend 500 billion, you kind of know that it's real because you know what these things cost and you know what the entire infrastructure will be and you know it's all directly correlated.
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Yeah, so the deeper the oil is in the ground and the harder the rock is that you got a breakthrough to get there, the more you have to spend. So those numbers become very grounded in reality. If you were a rocket company and you wanted to build a rocket and send it to Mars, you can also be very detailed in what the costs are.
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And you can assume some amount of reductions of scale if somebody said you'd have to spend $500 billion. The thing is that when in this world, it seems that there are these advances that are happening that allow you to do things cheaper and cheaper almost overnight by spending one one thousandth of what you spent even six months ago.
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I really loved this guy. Yeah. And Saks had this incredible tux, which was more crypto themed. It sort of looked like the opening scene from The Matrix. So there was like this cool print. You can see my green in there a little bit, Thomas. Okay.
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I think the spending money part, to be honest, is more of a gimmick than it is a technical commitment. So I guess if they want to spend the money, go ahead. But it doesn't actually tie to whether they're going to be able to make custom vaccines, whether they're going to cure cancer. So I kind of thought that these things were disjoint. And so my takeaway was entirely different.
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It was not a commentary on Masa or Larry or Sam. I think all of those three companies are frankly very good. It was more a comment that you have to be very careful to protect the president's legacy, if I were them, to make sure that the things that get announced are actually further down the technical spectrum and are actually going to be real.
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Because if they achieve these things, but it costs you a billion dollars and you only hire 50 people, There's going to be a little bit of egg on the face. And so that was sort of my own takeaway. I think that the things were decoupled. It just seemed more marketing and sizzle and kind of hastily put together.
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But I think it would be great if OpenAI builds in another incredible model, whatever comes after 03, 04, 05. But it's not clear that you have to spend $500 billion to do it.
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The question I had was, did Elon have any insight that this was happening? Probably not from the reaction on X. I bet he did.
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Yeah. Got it. There's Sky and New Money Sonny, the president of Grok. Sandeep Madra, x.com slash Sandeep. Here are the besties.
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On the AI side, there was a Biden EO last week. I spoke about this on Tucker because it happened the day I went on Tucker, but The EO basically said we will allow the permitting
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of power plants on federal lands to power these AI data centers, which started off like a very intelligent EO, but right in the second paragraph started to talk about DEI and all this other stuff and how you had to have a certain percentage of it from certain sources. But just today, it looked like President Trump overturned it. And now it's full steam ahead.
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If you have it permitted, then it's all about just get the power however you need the power, which I think is the smart decision. Back to your earlier point, like we are in a race here.
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Vinny, Sky, Diego Burdickin, the co-founder of Cloud Kitchens.
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Yeah. This was the crypto ball. This was Sax's event. It was incredible.
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But France held the line, right? When Europe tried to really deprecate its use of nuclear, Germany did, but France held the line.
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Here's a little poker afters. Oh, behind the scenes.
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TK, Travis Klein, the co-founder of Uber. Oh, look, that's the founder of Uber.
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Yeah, the downside is the amount of time it takes to adequately build these things properly. The thing that China has had, it's as Thomas' chart shows, is decades of practice in building things safely and quickly. We can build things, but we haven't had the practice to build them either safely or quickly because we haven't built any. That's a complicated thing to just acknowledge.
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Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a very good company. I think it's been incredibly performant, but I think it has like a little bit of a dark commentary on American society and productivity. So I asked Nick to just put up these three charts. I'll show you the first one. So this is the Netflix stock price from 2010 to 2020, and it's only gotten up since 2024. Okay. Okay.
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This is at Peter's house. Peter had this, Peter Thiel had this person going around taking pictures where you got this frame. Bad lighting. Not good lighting for you. Yeah. Good lighting. You got a little powder there. Okay.
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The only reason I did it at 2020 was because the other data. I went to the CDC and I said, well, show me the percentage of people, Americans, taking SSRIs over that same period. For depression? For depression, anxiety, et cetera, and what you see that it's also gone up.
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And then the last chart, I went to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics and I said, what has happened to the labor participation rate over the same period? So I'm not blaming Netflix, but I think that this is a bit of a commentary on sort of what's happening in society.
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It's a little bit of a leading indicator where as the company does better and better, the reality is that that company wins by being a sink for people's time. It's where you go to Netflix and chill. It's a phrase that we all understand. But the dark underbelly of it is that there's just a lot of people that are a little bit more dejected.
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There's a lot of people that just opt out and just don't decide to work. I think you could graph the fertility rate, and it's gone down ratably as well. So it's all of this soup that is about people living in a life that unfortunately just doesn't exist.
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So, I mean, it's a well-run business and I wish them all the best at some level, but at some other level, I think it's a commentary that as this company does better and better, there are more and more people that are living a shell of what their life could be.
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Yes.
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It's just a thing. And there's other things that obviously you can put on this plate. Sure. But that was my reaction is I just think that the more time people are sort of detaching and plugging out, the more that you're going to see these companies that provide ways of distracting yourself do well. I'm not sure that society benefits.
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The one thing that I would say is, and this is not a Netflix commentary, but a general commentary, which is online products versus linear products have the power and the benefit of this algorithmic targeting and personalization.
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Here's a dinner that we had. There's Lex Friedman, Julius Genachowski, who's the former chairman of the FCC. Little known.
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And I think that what Netflix has successfully figured out, and a bunch of other products have successfully figured out, is that you can hyper-tune to what people think they want. But what people think they want is not necessarily what they need. I think when you had linear television, you kind of had to take what was given. You didn't love Cheers, but you watched Cheers. You didn't love St.
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Elsewhere, but you watched it. Now it's that you can go into a place where the thing really feeds you and it gives you a very visceral feedback loop. And you can stay there binge watching something for an entire weekend. And what didn't, I think the question is, what didn't you do? Yes. Necessarily didn't work out. Necessarily didn't eat well. Didn't spend time with friends.
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And by the way, I'm not saying that I don't do it. I've done it as well. Like our group chat, one of the interesting things when Jason, he's very good about television and stuff. He says, this series is amazing. Our other friend, Rob Goldberg, does the same thing. It's hard for me to start it and then not end it. It's addicting, yeah.
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But I have to really check myself because then for those two days, I'll be tempted to not leave my bedroom. But my kids are like, where's my father? And so I think it happens to all of us. It's just a thing that, again, I'm not trying to pick on Netflix. I'm just trying to say societally, I think we want people that are vigorous and engaged in the real world.
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And you know, there needs to be a balance.
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Meditation's hard for kids, but I get the first three.
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By the way, you know what's crazy?
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When I was growing up, I grew up Buddhist. My father would make us sit there at nine o'clock every night. And my sisters and I would have to say this Buddhist prayer. And then he would make us close our eyes for 15 minutes. And he said, meditate. And I was like, I don't know what meditation is, but I was forced to just keep my eyes shut. And I would just daydream.
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But I suspect that there was like some reasonably grounding value in that. So I get what you're saying. I just have such a negative connotation from it. I've never been able to come back to it because of that experience. But I would just daydream. And by the way, what I daydreamed was getting out of that house. So you got a vision. A vision came to you.
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I got to manifest some success here because this sucks.
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Unless the king returns at some point, you're the best. You should come back. And you should also come back to the All In Summit.
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Actually, when you come back, which we will do at some point in the next few months, I would love for us to double-click into Hoctan. So for folks that are listening, we were going back and forth. Hoctan is the CEO of Broadcom. And the reason when Thomas brought this up, hey, guys, let's double-click into Broadcom
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and the CEO, the reason why I was excited is that it is the only trillion dollar company that nobody talks about. Everybody knows Nvidia. Everybody knows Amazon Meta. But Broadcom is a $1.12 trillion business. And it started basically through a whole series of roll-ups. Anyways, we'll double-click into this with you because I think it's so fascinating.
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It is. Yeah, Henry Samueli.
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Oh, never forget the ticker. Interesting. I mean, when he started, what was the market cap?
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It was a spin out of HP. It was a double orphan. 300x.
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I mean, obviously, the compounding advantages. He's an M&A master. This is less about there was a product that won and more of a portfolio approach and a portfolio construction.
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So we're going to make crypto great again. I'll be a little bit more specific. So I think that there are a handful of ideas that, if we can implement them correctly, are really revolutionary. I think that it's good to have a stockpile of crypto. I have less of an opinion on that. I think a set of stablecoin rails that makes payments instantaneous and costless is an enormous acceleration to GDP.
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I think it's very smart that Lex wears the same... outfit. The black suit with the white shirt with the black tie. I really like the consistency of it, actually.
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it would cut fraud. And I think that David's going to go and figure that out.
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Stable coins. I mean, I talked about this at the beginning of the year as one of my predictions, but I do think that the United States stable coin rails will be hugely disruptive and value added. He's going to have help from the head of the SEC and the head of treasury to do it. I just think it's great. I think SACS is already off to a hugely fast start.
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You know, phone a friend? Who would you call?
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
You look so handsome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
How's it been so far?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Here's the jacket. This is Luisa Beccaria. And then here's the box from Armani. Thank you, John. Whoa, wah, wah, wee, wah. Oh, look, there's a little side boob there with Nat.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
And then the other two, Sax?
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I'm wearing Tom Ford. Shout out Tom Ford. Shout out to you. Perfect male force. Oh, here's a huge shout out to two guys that I had really wanted to meet in person. I finally got the chance to meet. This is at Zuck's party. This is Brendan Carr, who's the incoming chairman of the FCC. Actually, this picture was taken right after he had gotten... confirmed. So this was his first day as the chairman.
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Are you a little emotional right now, Sax? What are your favorite memories from the inauguration weekend?
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There was a shot where David and Jacqueline were in the front. They looked amazing. And they were kind of looking around for where to sit. And I was like, this can't be right because he must have had a name. So it's good that it all got sorted out. But what was the vantage point from your side? Basically, you're looking out.
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And then this is a guy who I've been following for a couple of years, Jared Isaacman, who is now going to run NASA. He's the founder and CEO of Shift for Payments. But both of these guys are pretty epic. You should follow them on Twitter.
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He did. He's really, really incredible.
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Yeah, great question.
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Is it bigger in person or is it smaller in person? What is it?
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Brendan's amazing. I mean, by the way, if you want to see some really amazing tweets, he had some real bangers. He's a very smart guy.
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You want me to repeat the words that the president said about you? There's nobody like this guy. They said, how did you get David Sachs? How did you do that? He's doing it for the country more than anything else. We appreciate it, David. Thank you very much.
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Can we see the pen? Can we see the pen? What's the brand of the pen?
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Is it like a Sharpie? What is that? Is it a Sharpie?
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Have you guys seen that there's all these ASMR videos of the president signing where you can just hear the pen on the paper? Exactly. There's like all these ASMRs of that.
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Love you, Soxie.
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Boys, love you very, very much. David, love you. Hopefully we'll see you on Tuesday.
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Thomas, thanks for coming in. See you guys. Thanks for the opportunity. Thomas, thank you very much. You were great. Thank you.
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This is a picture of Mike Johnson and his wife. This is a crazy story. So there was a G7 summit in Italy and Mike and his wife was seated beside my father-in-law, Nat's dad, at a dinner. They got to know each other. He, as a proud grandpa, showed Mike and his wife pictures of Nat and myself and our kids. And how we actually met in this moment was his wife was like, oh my God, I recognize you.
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You're Sergio's son-in-law. You're Sergio's daughter. It's amazing. And then we had a cool conversations. That was cool. And then this is Bill Pulte, who is nominated to run FHFA, which for folks that know will be in control of the conservatorship of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and really great guy, also a co-investor with me and Mr. Beast, Nat. Oh, you're an investor in Mr. Beast. There you go.
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This is Mr. I did the Series A. This is the first time I think you've said it on the pod. Oh, here's this thing. So this is where J. Cal is at his peak. Go ahead, Nick. Just play the video. I don't even know what this is.
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This is, oh, sorry. Oh, that's me and Bobby Kennedy. But this is walking into the Capitol for the inauguration.
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So you basically, you have to get off. All these buses were taking us in because of the security. And then you walk underneath and underground to get into them. And this is Bobby and the guy right there, Cali Means, another great American. Make America healthy again.
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She's so strong. She came to our party. I like her. This is the picture of our party. She is incredible.
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And golfer Bryson DeChambeau.
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I think my biggest takeaway is that If you look in the past, there was a very tight coordination, I guess I would say, between private industry and the private sector and the public sector, meaning the president and then people who were in charge of managing huge, vast swaths of resources in America.
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Somewhere along the way, that became either unfashionable and uncool, particularly under Democrats. And what I saw was a very broad-based embrace of business people because I think that the president understands how important it is to make sure that economically, America is just firing on all cylinders. The one thing to remember, like for example, in the inauguration,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Jacob wasn't there? Actually, it's interesting you say that. It's interesting. I checked my spam filters, and my invite got stuck in the spam filters.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
J. Cal, what'd you think of the Besson interview? Did you see it? I did watch the best one. Yeah, I mean, listen, I would have loved to ask him a couple of questions. Obviously, I would have probably done a couple of fastballs, curveballs would have gone a little bit harder. But he's so impressive. And you guys did like an hour with him. And I haven't heard.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah, I mean, you know, you got to get a little bit into the chaos.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah, it was a little bit of a problem. But I had ski week this week, so I wouldn't have been able to make it anyway. But yeah, I noticed there were some other invites stuck in my – a couple of other invites got stuck. Yeah, my Jeopardy invite. I see that you guys are all going to be in the next Jeopardy in the second round. My invite to Jeopardy somehow got lost. I have to talk to John, the CEO.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Thanks for the invite. See you in the commissary. No, I thought it was really good to hear from him long form. I think there's a little bit of chaos going on with the terrorists and stuff like that. But, you know, I don't think the country knows how great he is. This guy is a powerhouse. He has an incredible track record.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And by the way, like Trump picking him, I'm going to give Trump a little bit of flowers here. Obviously, folks know I'm an independent and a never Trumper who is, you know, supporting the administration to do the best they can.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
No, I mean, I didn't. I had my own issues with, you know, what Trump did on January 6th. We don't need to get into it. Overturning Roe v. Wade. We don't have to get into the things that I don't agree with what he did. Putting all those things aside, I think he's done a great job with the team he's putting here.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And this is, you know, my message to I think some of the Americans or the people on the left is. I would look at what he's doing and some of these individuals. These are really high-functioning individuals. The last time, I think he had a cast of characters around him who I think were kind of dark, and I didn't care for a lot of them.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
With Besson, this guy is like a bi... I think he was previously a Democrat who gave to a ton of Democrats. And he is a powerhouse. And I think he really understands financial markets.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
You were a Democrat, yeah. So I think that's, you know, Besant is- I came away from it saying, this guy's super qualified. And the chaos that I think Trump has been creating with like back and forth with the tariffs and his communication style, it made me feel better to know that there was somebody who was rock solid like him in there and who's really thoughtful.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Because right now, when you talk to 50 people who are knowledgeable about the markets and say, what is the strategy here that Trump has? You get 10 different answers, five different vectors for it. People are trying to figure out exactly what he's trying to do. And there's a lot of non-consensus.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
But hearing that he's got somebody like him there and you talking to him for an hour, I felt much better about the situation. And that maybe there is a plan here.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I think, yeah, it was a solid interview. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the access level, you know, most of the time he's on something like Meet the Press or Face the Nation. And it's 11 minutes and the guy can't breathe. And for him to go an hour and you kind of, you did a good job, Chamath, of sort of giving his history, which I think the context most Americans don't have.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
This is how out of touch you are.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
So I was very proud of the job the two of you did. I wish I I was there.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I'm looking forward to the next one. I don't know when that drops, but that should be really good. Oh my God. Dude, the what Nick interviews. I mean, he's a hardcore New Yorker. And like, he really,
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
So that was kind of a bummer. Also, I missed my invite to the Bridgerton. You've got a cameo in Bridgerton there, I see, Friedberg. What is it? I'm not going to be on the Netflix show Bridgerton. I missed that.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
All right, everybody. We got a full docket today. Lots of docket. And, you know, just, hey, welcome back to the show, Cyan. I just wanted to start. You had a really great announcement this week. Long Journey Ventures, your venture capital firm, announced a $180 million fund. Tell us a little bit about that.
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That's awesome. What is the mission of the venture fund? What stage are you going to do? You and I started as angel investors together 14 years ago, 12 years ago.
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This is such a hard thing for people to get their heads around, the non-consensus bet and why that's so important. I'm training new associates at our firm and they always are going to safety. So they're looking at a vertical, they're looking at a startup and saying, well, this makes the most sense. And then they look at the ones that don't make sense, but that are like intriguing.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And it looks like my white party invite here with Diddy. Oh, well, we'll just cut it in post. Oh, thank God. Thank God, the white party. Oh, look, Epstein's Island. Oh, no, I'm sorry. That was Reid Hoffman's invite. That was you.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And they are like, yeah, I don't know if I want to place a bet on that because I haven't seen it. I'm like, that's where the gold is, is the non-consensus bet. When you and I did Uber, it was a room of 21 people, three people decided to invest, 19 didn't.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Such a great observation. Like when an associate or some research company says, oh, it's the on-demand economy. That's when you know that opportunity gone.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And so obviously- It's literally, you and I are the product of, you know, our early bets and like what the lessons we learned. And like one of those lessons was to be in early. It's literally what I'm doing at Foundry University now is just trying to do 100- It's just like a pre-accelerator.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
If I find two or three founders who I like, I give them their first 25K check or 125K check where they can just come, you know, do it with me. We're starting next Friday. So people want to come, founder.university. But it's just like what we used to do in the old days, trying to get in. Be the first investor. And it's really working and it's super fun.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Hey, listen, there is great news, I think, for the venture industry. This Google acquiring whiz, I think this could be the starter's pistol.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic. Google has acquired Wiz for $32 billion in cash. If you don't know what Wiz is, just imagine you have cloud services like Microsoft's Azure, Amazon Web Services, Google's cloud, Oracle's cloud. You need to have security between these things. They help do that. It's the largest deal in Google's history. David was there, I think, for some of the other...
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
big acquisitions. There haven't been a lot of acquisitions. Obviously, we know the wrath of Lena Kahn was pretty acute for the last four years. But looking back in history, Salesforce, buying Slack, which our bestie Chamath here was an early investor in for $27 billion. That occurred in 2020. And then we had a couple of things get blocked.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
HP was a juniper, I believe, for $14 billion last year got blocked. And so- Adobe Figma. Adobe Figma got blocked.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
All right, all right, let's get back to it. Let's get back to it. It was a triumphant week for our besties. There were like little school girls giggling on the group chat. Oh my God, I'm in the White House. Oh my God, look, I'm getting closer to power. What was it like, Chamath? Your dream has come true.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Blocked in the UK, but they assumed it was going to happen here. And this is actually, we talked about this on episode 189, Shamath. Wiz turned down $23 billion from Google. They said at the time it was because they wanted to IPO, but now reporting is saying- No, I mean- It was because of the antitrust stuff under Biden, plus the UK, obviously. Go ahead, Chamath. You can take it from there.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
You came here to America from Canada, you built all this from nothing, and you wound up at the White House.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I mean, design matters, right?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Having a perspective, a point of view. It's so great that that was rewarded. Sayan, what do you think of what I'll call Letnick's lighthouse customer approach? In other words, make this piece of software for the U.S. government will become your first customer, the lighthouse that pulls in other customers. For free. And for free. So we get it for free.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
We help you set the standard, and then you get to use us as your reference client. Let's start with that. Thoughts on that, and then we'll get into M&A.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Freeberg, your thoughts on Letnick's lighthouse strategy. Could it work?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Oh, that makes total sense, right? You don't need an approval if it's gratis. That makes total... That's right. Yeah, that makes it even more brilliant.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Well, then I guess we can contrast this, Chamath, with Tim Waltz, you know... VP, potential VP candidate.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
This was the most infuriating thing I've ever seen from a politician. I mean, Tim Walz, gets on stage, pulls out his stock app and starts mocking the greatest American car company ever created and that its stock is down. This is Disgraciad.com to me. Play the clip, Nick.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I mean, Chamath, you want to talk about this communist scumbag and what he did there?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
That moment will be looked at as the bottom. Cyan, any thoughts?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah. Because whenever you incite like this kind of aggressiveness, and by the way, both sides do it, you get a contingent who takes it too far. Maybe we wrap up on this and then we can jump back to Wiz. Sorry for the diversion.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
It was like the 30s or something.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Is this the one that says white college age women are just like this weird?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And I think a lot of people- Here's an idea too.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Well, and here's another framing. Is it so hard to agree on something? I think this is one of the brilliant things that Trump did was he's like, here are some things we can agree on. And he just subsumed those, like fighting for the working class person, saying no tax on tips. These were democratic positions.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I think this just proves that meme where it's like, we were all standing here and the left just went too far left. Yeah, they left everybody. Yep.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
It's really, and by the way, Dean Phillips, we're inviting back on the program, Ezra Klein, Sam Harris. We wanna have some more people on the left come on here and maybe talk about this very issue. It's really three things they could work on. Number one, build 10 million homes in this country that are affordable. That's a really key issue.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Rich people should pay their fair share of taxes and reform the tax code. And then third, health care for everyone. Those three would get this party back on track. We're going to make a more efficient government. You're going to be able to buy a home. You're going to get health care and rich people are going to start paying their taxes, which they're not.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And we're going to stop with these crazy Trump tax breaks. That would be the perfect positioning. And it's not personal. It's just, hey, we're a rich enough country that people should get health care. Why shouldn't people have health care in the modern world?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Why can't these rich people who are donating tens of millions of dollars to Trump just pay some more taxes and make sure poor people have basic health care? Cyan, your thoughts? And then let's get back to the docket.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Were you allowed to put up a piece of art? And look at that desktop rig.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
All right. Let's get back to the whiz deal and the docket here. Let's see if there's anything we didn't...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
All right. So looking at this, the deal got sweetened massively over the year between when the first offer was made for $23 billion and then went up to $32 billion. The revenue roughly doubled since the time of the first offer. And then there's some really interesting things in the details. There is a huge breakup fee. We saw the breakup fee with Adobe and Figma. This one is tremendous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
It's 10% of the deal size, $3.2 billion in cash. They don't get an investment. If this deal doesn't go through, Google has to give Wiz $3.2 billion in cash. Let that sink in. This company is massively high growth, zero to 100 million in 18 months when they started. And last year, they passed 500 million in ARR.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
You know, that puts the deal at roughly 60 times their run rate, and that is a high price. However, they're supposed to hit a billion in ARR this year, which would put it at 30 times forward-looking, or 32 times, which isn't outrageous because Google probably has, Freeberg, some concept, or Alphabet rather, some concept of how they could increase the velocity of that of that revenue, yeah?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Or that it would be a defensive position, one of those two, yeah?
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
So that's like, I think, probably like- Because they were, you're saying, Shabbat, they would have the data they would be able to see from Wiz, like, hey, look.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
90% of this type of job is existing on Oracle or it's over here on AWS or Azure.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I wonder if it's a lot of self-serve.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Consumption, yeah.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Who knows? So, Ian, looking at this, I'm curious your take on big VC because the Series A, $100 million round, we don't have the valuation for it. The B was at $1.7 billion a year later, so maybe we assume it was a $500 million valuation for 20%, something like that, I would guess, maybe a $600 million post.
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White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Sequoia Insight Index, CyberStarts all did that Series A. When you look at the B, C, D, and E, those same players all participated. This is another example of sometimes your best next investment as a VC firm is the highest growth outlier in your existing portfolio. Your thoughts on what this means in terms of venture capital and maybe the log jam that we saw over the last
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
four years, five years of no M&A. Because you and I came up when it was a golden era of M&A, and then the IPO market started to open up with Airbnb, Coinbase, and of course Uber. Now we're sitting here, if this is the starter's pistol, what could it look like for the VC industry, which has just been dead?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I think you're probably correct.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
We're starting to see some- You were an angel investor in that, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
That was the Pokemon Go folks. I remember you showing me Pokemon Go over a decade ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
That's amazing. That's a Saudi company that bought it? It looks like a Saudi conglomerate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
How long were you in that deal? How many years were you in?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
All right. Well, permission granted. You can't say it's a great story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah. No, I mean, this is what it takes to get in deals in Silicon Valley. All right. The Fed held rates steady on Wednesday. Markets have been digesting this pretty flat. The second consecutive meeting, of course, where the Fed held rates steady. This is after the two consecutive cuts in September, 50 basis points in September, and then obviously 25 in December.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And we had this high hopes that there would be, you know, four or five of these cuts this year, and there are apparently none right now. Trump posted on Truth Social that he urged the Fed to cut rates to create a smoother transition for his tariffs. The tariffs are taking place, I believe, on April 2nd is that date. That's gonna change the history of the United States forever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And so there were some other interesting takeaways. They lowered expectations on rate cuts. They expect two quarter point cuts for the rest of 2025. This would take us down to about 4%. Your thoughts, Shamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Okay, translate it for us, Jamal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
We met some really- So you're in the press room here? This is the actual press room? This is where, by the way, it's so small.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Well, Dave, I'll drop it to you. The Fed's mandate as an independent organization is full employment. And that 2% target, which we talked about before here, was just a number that was picked by an economist in New Zealand, of all places. It's not like it's some specific dosage that is perfect, but it is their mandate. They're not supposed to be a political organization.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
So what are your thoughts on this situation and these high rates, which we have to pay for our debt?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
$399.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah, Cyan, I'm not sure if the Fed and the people in the administration can't communicate the strategy perfectly well and the Fed can't interpret it. I don't know that we're going to solve it here, but any thoughts on this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Well, specifically the tariffs. I mean, if they're on, they're off. To what extent? It doesn't feel like the entire administration is on the same page. That's just based on everybody I've talked to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yes, they're independent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah, and consumer confidence is not good right now. People are feeling like a little bit concerned about it. And this immigration plays into this. We're supposed to be deporting 20 million people. Maybe it's only going to be a million. Who knows about that issue? Who's going to actually work in these factories? Are people getting laid off or are they not getting laid off?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Like there's just a soup of issues here that makes the Fed's job difficult.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
extremely difficult so in an extremely difficult confusing storm what is the best thing to do when you're driving the storm is just maybe try to keep the car going straight not hit the brakes or not hit the gas and that's what they're doing they're taking a wait and see and let's see if the administration can be a little bit crisper i think in their delivery of what their plan is because it does seem chaotic to me and people here might disagree chamath you said you had an anecdote
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
So what's the future? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Freiburg, it's your chance to shine. We have not one, but we have two amazing space stories in Science Corner. First up, SpaceX successfully rescued two astronauts, and when they landed, there were dolphins breaching around the capsule. It was absolutely magical to see. Congratulations to the SpaceX team on that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And then Firefly Aerospace completed its moon mission after achieving the first commercial soft lunar landing. Take it whichever way you want, Freeberg. Which one of these do you want to start with? And then maybe we'll open the discussion up to a little bit broader discussion about the moon itself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Episode 192, 192 in August.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
You know, there's a lot of hand-wringing. Oh my God, you know, conflict of interest, Elon with SpaceX and Doge and being close to the administration. When we look at what SpaceX has accomplished, I'm not a shareholder, but I know you are, Chamath. I'm not sure if we have folks on the panel. You are as well, Cyan. I am as well. Okay. Congratulations, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
But putting aside our personal investments, when you look at how much they've reduced the cost, is anybody even close to matching their cost to getting to space? Great question. Because this kind of takes out the whole... The whole hand-wringing around the conflict of interest with SpaceX, both on Starlink and on this, seems ridiculous because their price is so cheap.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
It makes no sense to even complain about it. We should just be giving Elon a high five and saying, thanks for charging us such a low rate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Cyan, you want to take it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Any thoughts on the cost versus conflict of interest, I guess, hand-wringing?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Recaps are painful. You put all that money in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
It's pretty much double that in the Bay Area or Whole Foods, but yeah, it's half that. Ask me how much milk is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I mean, that is really dark.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
There definitely needs to be an investigation into what happened there. A lot of speculation. It doesn't look good. I'm going to take Elon as the word that he offered. I mean, I don't see any reason why he would. The astronauts even confirmed that he offered. Oh, they did?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I mean, I know that people were saying like unconfirmed if the Biden administration.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Come pick us up. Freeberg, take us to the next story. And then we'll get, we'll go get a wrap here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
All right, here's a look at it. Yeah, there's the model of the reusable Raptor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Slave labor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
not humans in it because we're- It means both.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I mean, in San Francisco, we saw it up close and personal, right? They banned AP math. I mean, what lunatics could ever, I mean, I guess the lunatics in San Francisco could literally justify that it was, you know, some massive inequality that the smart kids got to take harder courses.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Are you blaming white women, college-educated white women?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
For those of you not watching, it's a voter's opinion. White men, no degree. White men, college degree. White women, no degree. White women, college degree. And yeah, DEI, plus 53, no, plus 31. By the way- Yeah, for white women in college. Yeah, NBC News, Paul. Yeah, this is not from- Yeah, like a right-leaning organization here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Is that where Marine One lands and you see everybody yelling at the president and trying to like talk over the copters or that's on the other side?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I have been hanging out at UT a little bit, the University of Texas. and go Longhorns. And I've had three or four people of means, I'll say, you know, people who could afford to go to any college asked me, Do you have any hookups at UT, I want to take a tour, I want to check this out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
And I'm like, Oh, and they're like, Yeah, I just don't want to send my kids to, you know, these, as Chamath has called them previously on the program, woke madrasas. I want to send them to the south to be educated in Texas. Or somewhere, you know, where they're not going to learn to be part of Hamas or, you know, Al Qaeda. So there you have it, folks. Send your kids, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
It's a huge trend. It's a huge trend that people want to go to these schools.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Mission 5 is going directly to your dingleberries. They're going to go plant and get those dingleberries, those vegan dingleberries. Oh, sorry, sorry. Cyan, you shouldn't have heard that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I don't care. It's our tradition to talk about Freeburg's anus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
100%. I am 100% going to do it when I'm 75.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Yeah. What would you bring? What are you going to bring? You bring a little Chardonnay? What are you thinking would pair well with the dark side of the moon there, Chamath? What are you going to bring?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
What should we serve on the moon? Would you think we should go with fish, a little syrup and turf? Maybe syrup and turf would be good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Thanks for tuning in to the All In Podcast. I'm Chief Cyan Bannister. I'm Jake Howe. He's Chamath Paihapatiya. And, of course, your Sultan of Science, David Friedberg. And, of course, thanks to CEO John and Producer Nick, everybody who put so much effort into it. And thanks to our partners for, yeah, supporting the show. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
We're back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
all right everybody welcome back to the number one podcast in the world the all-in podcast with me again chamath palihapitiya david friedberg and look at this look at this live from dc our bestie david sacks is back he's suited up in the administration and In the fifth bestie seat for the second time, my long-term bestie, Cyan Bannister, hot on the trails of her new fund getting announced.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I got the veggie burgers famous, right? Because it's got the seal on the top. Yeah, it's got the seal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Well, it was made over 100 years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
You could be whacking a terrorist from 4,000 miles away or you can get a mocha. You could do both. Why choose? Cyan, you have a question. What do you think? If you're taking all this in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
I think you will. Well, when I run and I'm president, because I'm the only one here who can, I will definitely- Cyan can, can't you? Cyan can. Oh, wait, Cyan, you're an American. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Well, I was talking about the besties here. I forgot for a second. She's a bestie. All right, listen, amazing. I was wondering about the choice of the double-breasted Chamath. This is a strong, strong choice here to go double-breasted to the White House. Take me through the thinking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
White House BTS, Google buys Wiz, Treasury vs Fed, Space Rescue
Whoa. So you quadded it in one week? But then I went single breasted to see POTUS. I did notice that. Yeah. It's a little gratuitous to go triple double. Yeah. You don't want to triple double.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world, the all in podcast. And you can subscribe to us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, yada, yada, you know the drill, we're going to go to Miami for an epic F1 weekend. All in podcast live on stage Saturday, May 3, a couple special guests, go to all in.com slash events.
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Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's condescending.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, you can actually move, right? You can take a taxi and it's faster than taking the subway.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Bureaucracy is nice. Yeah, you want a car, stay in the boroughs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
exactly so you don't get a car in manhattan explain this to people it's a little bit egregious i mean you and i do jason but everybody else shouldn't have it exactly our lives should be different you know what i mean absolutely absolutely but i mean what's the point of us having nice cars if we can't drive them whenever we want yes yes and you know we grew up at a time on the lower east side uh you know you could go to tribeca we could go to a club limelight you could park outside the limelight at night you could go to palladium you could park on 14th street a
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
You got it at Zara. All right, listen. More importantly, let's stay on track.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
How many supplements you got, Shimon? How many NDAs? All right, Freeberg. I like this episode. Yeah, we're off to a hot start here. Freeberg, you look like you have a low sperm count, but you have a fourth kid on the way. But apparently, what's the story? Are you au naturel? This is for the first time ever. Nobody knew this. Breaking news. Freeberg, au naturel with your 3.5 babies. 100%. 100%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Wow. A vegan who's shooting with a sniper rifle. I love it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
If we charge them to come into the market, we charge them an extra 25%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Exactly. Exactly. Oh, my God. I know a place with the best roast cauliflower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I mean, the other problem is just the communication of this has been terrible. We were on the program last week or two weeks ago, Joe Lonsdale's like, this is about fentanyl. So is it about fentanyl? Is it about getting rid of income tax at the federal level? Is it about supply chain resiliency? These guys get like... a D in my grade book for communication. It's terrible communication.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And this idea that you can't take Trump too seriously about his claims, like, well, he said he was going to overturn Roe v. Wade. He did it. He said he was going to close the border and send people home. He did that. You know, he said he'd do a Muslim ban. He actually did that. So for every time he says something and you're like, that's cap. No way he's going to do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I actually think people are starting to realize he's going to do something here with these tariffs. They're not just a negotiating position. And the other problem I think a lot of people have with this is it centralizes power. Anybody can go to Trump now and say, I want an exception. I'm, you know, a car company. I want an exception. I'm a solar company. I, you know, I need an exemption.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And then now you've got everybody going to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring, to give him a donation, to bow down. And it centralizes more power with them as opposed to having rules.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And we need to have rules in this country that apply to everybody, not just people who give a million dollars like Bezos and Tim Cook and everybody and Zuck, the weather vane gave him. We don't want to live in that world where you're just bribing Trump to get your tariff. And that's how people feel. That's how the business community feels. That's the reality right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
People are bribing Trump, giving him a million dollars to inauguration, to get close to him, to go to Mar-a-Lago. And it looks really bad. You need to have a clear strategy here. For what the rules of the game are. And he's changing the rules. So you have to go to him and he's, he loves that. That's actually, I think what he's trying to do is get everybody to go through him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's a really clever hack, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Oh, it's the main course.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's just like having a ribeye, except it's disgusting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, $4 million house? Yeah, it was like... I don't even have a house. I can't find a house. You burned your house down and you went to your vacation house. Now, oh, I'm sorry, you're living at your ski house? That's a tragedy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's a rich person. And, you know, I think putting together what you just said, Schultz, and you, Chamath, Trump is a master at connecting with people and listening to them. I thought one of the greatest things he did during this last election is when he said, no tax on tips. When he said no tax on tips, he was going right for Nevada.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
He was going right for that swing state to get those folks who live off tips. But what he was also doing is saying, I know that there's a bunch of y'all that sometimes get cash tips, you put it in your pocket, it's the gray market, I get it. You know, I run a whole, you know, I got caddies who get a hundy from, you know, whatever, taking somebody out on the course.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
We're just going to make it official. You don't get taxed on tips because we know that you're, you know, you're the bottom third of the country. in terms of your economic power. Those kind of statements really do connect with people. Trump has just mastered this. This party is... Trump is the Democratic Party that we grew up with. It's kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
to buy a ticket and we're really excited today because for the first time in all in history we have a comedian we have somebody talented on the program ain't that the truth you know ain't that the truth real comedian someone that knows how to make good jokes all right it's true andrew i think i feel like that was a dick to me but okay andrew schultz is here how we doing boys thank you for having me schultz
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And then the Democrats became this elitist group that seemed to be in the pocket of business interests. I don't know what bizarro world we're living in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
There is a roaring yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
How is that going to happen, Chamath? Explain it. Because there are 7 million homes that we still need to build to service just current demand. How does that actually happen with the supply-demand problem in your mind?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
This is important science talk, Sheltie.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
That's why crypto is so popular. It feels like it's their only access. Yeah, it's like comedy in some ways. Like, all I need is a microphone or music. Like, there is a path for me. And crypto obviously is a giant fucking scam.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, it's a friend of ours, Brad Gerstner, with this Invest America is the concept.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Absolutely. We're on the express train.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Meanwhile- What if you put it into the market?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Everybody knows about it. You didn't visit the Yamanaka factory when you were in Kyoto?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Retirement age goes up a little bit. Yeah, it's a lot of levers. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, we're propping it up for no reason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, they had 401ks, right? They had 401ks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It wasn't given to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's a dream. It's a dream.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Oh, wait, it's green today?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And the system's rigged and the system's rigged and you can't be part of it and you're being ground down. This is, I think, really good proposal, Freeburg. And if you look at housing, that's the other one. If I run for president, you know what my position is going to be, Schultz? What's that? I'm going to build five cities with three million homes in each.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And you can only buy them if you make under X amount per year. It's not going to be like the projects or like, you know, subsidized housing in New York. It's not going to be Stuyvesant town. Okay. It's going to be like nice house. It's pretty good if you can get it. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
but not like projects i'm talking about like proper homes like bill we are the most innovative country society ever created i mean since the greeks they were pretty great too but we could build five new cities why the can't we build five new cities with three million homes in it let's do some like manhattan project for housing and then health care how the hell do we not have like good health care for everybody in this country with the richest country in the
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
We should be able to solve those problems. And that's why people don't feel like they're part of this is because basic housing, basic health care and your retirement. It's not like it's rigged against you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I bought my first stock in the company I was working for, or the parent company, the company I was working for in 1989 when I was 18 years old. So 18. What about you, Dave? I bought $300 in stock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
What about you, Chamath? And it shifted it up for me. When did you buy your first equity?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, it's a growing experience. What about you, Shelton? When did you buy your first equity?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Well, this is, I think, the upside of crypto in some ways. Also, the upside of prize picks or gambling, poker. It's the upside of Robinhood and Coinbase and all these things being available. This generation, Generation Bet, they love to gamble, these young kids.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
No, but they're learning. They're learning how to take the downdrafts. I think that's my position.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, but here's the thing. You have to learn these lessons at the poker table. You cannot play poker without real money or else you're not going to get the burn. You're not going to stay up at night and say – How do we... So that's what these kids are doing. How do we educate them? It's not every kid, right? The education comes from doing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And if you let these kids trade, they will figure it out over time. And then what happens is, like you, they get married, they get a baby, they want to get a house, and then they say, you know what? I'm going to stop buying meme coins. I'm going to start buying Bitcoin. I'm going to stop buying Bitcoin. I'm going to buy Nvidia and things with real revenue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Okay, yeah, fair enough. But between the choice of, hey, we're going to grow up blue collar, we have no access to these markets, we have no way to trade in them, we have no way to learn. And then today, I think the system we have today is better. Can people go off the, you know, jump the fence and lose all their money? Of course they can. But they could go to Vegas and do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Prior to that, they could work with a bookie, they could do football sheets. I I think they're learning. And when you use some of these modern apps and you look at the strategies and you see people on Reddit working on these stocks and their thesis, I think it's trending the right way. There can always be more education, but this is, let's hope. Don't bet on the Jets, right? You said it before.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And I don't touch it right now. You know the rule of 72? That was the one that opened my brain up. So the rule of 72 is whatever the percentage you grow per month divided into 72. So let's say you were growing 7.2% in the market per year. Divide that. It takes 10 years to double your money. So it's a time to double your money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
If you were growing 7% a month on whatever your investments are, let's say you got a great business that's growing like Facebook or something like that, that means you double the number of users or revenue every 7.2 months. Once you understand that, you can do it quickly. Just like in poker, you know the number of outs. Each card represents roughly 2%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
chance because it's 50 of them right so they each account for about two percent then you can start doing this stuff in the back of your head i i had this idea i think i talked about it here on the program of doing the kids investment club and i bought the domain kids investment club i actually need to do this i i i gotta prioritize this and find a ceo for it or do it as a non-profit or something just kids need to learn this early yeah robin hood or somebody should make an app where they can invest like a shadow but it's you know like with their parents maybe they can make the trade the parent approves it something like that
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
There's something where we should be learning all this in high school. They should be like, what's more important than this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I was about to. I'm about to put it out there. I didn't have IVF.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
You've got something else to focus on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Look at this. Hey, Friedberg. Here's your time machine. Check it out. There's your favorite show. I don't want to make you more emotional, but there is your guy, Stanley Tucci from Bull. I think it only made it one season, right? One season, but Tucci gang in full effect.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
But the first time we had the first kid, wife says, hey, I'm ovulating. I said, put me in the game. Boom. First shot, half court, logo, pregnant. Wow. Then she says, I want to wait before I have the next one. It's a little traumatic to have a kid. And she waits six years. Then we try for a year, nothing for one year. So now I'm like, man, we waited too long. It's a lot of pressure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I haven't seen it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And I've seen him cook on TikTok. He's like, today, is it rolling? It's rolling today? Today? I'm going to make you a but I'm doing it in the base and we're going to put, and I'm like, I just, can this guy do ASMR or put me to bed at night? Tucci's the best. Tucci's the best. I'm going to man crush on Tucci. Tucci's the best. I mean, he is, I would like to roll with Tucci.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I love that guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
We're all dreaming here. We're all dreaming here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Are you taking the ketamine in Austin or something? What happened? You just got all full of something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
yesterday. We went to the mothership last night.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And we... Well, we hung out with a couple of your boys, I think. Who'd you hang out with?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Well, Tony Hinchcliffe. Tony was very nice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
He was big time. There was a mob around and we didn't get to meet him. The guy, Bert, who take, I didn't recognize. Yeah, he had his shirt on, so I didn't recognize him. Yeah, I was like, but then I saw the body shape and I was like, yeah, that's probably him. When did you start in comedy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Pleasure. You're on a heater right now. You took time to come on the All In pod. Thank you for doing that. Of course. Your Netflix special is crushing it. Top 10 around the world. It's called Life.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
So you started in your early twenties in New York going to the funny bone or what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
You managed restaurants in Manhattan?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
You talk about this in the special. It's like for women, this is anxiety producing. So she's like, you got to go get checked out. And this is when the most humiliating day of my life occurred. I don't know, Andy, what it was like when you went. But they found all these grifters.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Reasonable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And you get 50 bucks a seat, 20 bucks a seat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
No, no, no. I walk in and the thing opens and there's three women at the counter, at the reception. And they're like, hey, Jason Calacanis, you're here to give a, you know, I'm like, yeah, I am. And then they walk you to a room. Oh, that's the spookiest thing. They walk you to a room and then they open it up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I mean, the Chappelle stuff is really got put him in the crosshairs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
They stood strong, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
And it's like some nightmare scenario where there's a Motel 8 room and there's a couch that's about three feet wide.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
That's all Sarandos? He believes in comedy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
They tried to cancel you. What was the joke? Who? The moms. Because they went after Tony Hinchcliffe twice. Oh, yeah. And each time he went 10X, they came after Chamath on this program. That was the first level up. We got three times the audience after they tried to cancel Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
The White House released a statement.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
In fact, it looks very much like the hotel you're in, Schultz. I don't know what's going on with the Netflix budget. Why do you think I'm staying there? Maybe they could put you in the Four Seasons or the Peninsula. It's so brutal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Like, yeah, like Seinfeld, or they think it's like Hasidim. It's just like one or the other.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah. And then they're down the conspiracy hall.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
That's what I'm talking about. The Rolodex. You roll through all the memories.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I mean, this is your point about Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
This is like, I think the point is going to be a conspiracy theory about that right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Way to go, Chelsea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
You drove him out. Thanks a lot. You drove him out. Right. Chelsea, when you said, you know, Trump's a masterful kind of communicator here. Biden gave all these weapons to Ukraine under the auspices of what's called a loan lease. They have to pay them back. But Biden never communicated that well. And then Trump comes out and he's like, you know what? We gave them 180 million, 180 billion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
They're going to give us 500 billion back. We're making a 40. He basically described a 42% compounded return.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
All those great moments with your wife.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, better than anything that's ever happened. I mean, he's out there in terms of his ability to communicate it. Chamath, as we wrap here, any final thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Maybe there was accidentally one or two that got left in from when you were on the road.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I mean, there's a lot of money going out the door.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Yeah, you kind of want the super genius on your side, for sure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Interesting. Interesting. A little Manchurian candidate for J.D.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Appalachia to Yale, and then the VP, and he's 40. He's your age. He's like 40.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
He's sappy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Keep an eye on him, for sure. All right, listen. Andrew Schultz is playing at the Funny Bone on April 16th and 17th. He'll be at Chuckles on the 20th and the 21st. Two drink minimum. Two drink minimum. Buy the veal. You know where to find them. Incredible, incredible Netflix special.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I was actually when I was an astrophysicist, Chelsea, I am.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I did summer stock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
There you go. All right. Andy Schultz picks me. There you have it, mom. I would like to clip that. And yeah. All right. Continued success. Come back anytime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Wow. Speaking of jerk-offs... Yeah. Speaking of jerk-offs, Gavin Newsom's got a podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I love Chamath. Chamath is just so incorrect.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
They could have named him John, Steve, if they wanted to pronounce him. They had to keep it real, though.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
They were like, if you can pronounce this, you can solve the Pythagorean theorem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I'm so proud of him. I mean, God damn. He's going to figure it out. He'll get us two months. He's going to get us the house we deserve. Let me ask you a question, Andrew. Is it racist if I do an Indian impersonation? Because I know I can do Italian and Irish, but can I do Indian?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I'm going to go ahead and until I make my move to comedian, I'm not going to do it. I'm going to save it to when I get my Kill Tony set.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's about your low sperm count. Tell us that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I can do Korean because my wife's Korean and her dad. Oh, you can? I can because my dad, my father-in-law, I went to China. He's an industrialist. He's there. And I said, hey, listen, I'd like to marry your daughter. And he said, okay. Two conditions. And I said, okay. And he said, do it fast. And he poked me, Andrew, so hard. Like a reinforced poke with his finger. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
On my shoulder, got a bruise. I'm like, oh, fuck. And then he goes, and I said, what's the second thing? He says, no refunds. He says it just like that. And I was like, okay, okay. I don't want to marry a daughter. No refunds. Do it fast. And I literally had to marry her within a year because he knew. He was like, listen, he had four daughters. And he was like, I got to move inventory here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I love it. And I was the first. I married the oldest daughter. None of the other daughters could get married until I married my wife, which was the greatest thing I ever did. Three beautiful kids. You know how it is. And listen, good luck. You're going to have a second and third, Shelton? I hope so.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
I hope so, man. God will it. Three's the right number. If you want to go, if you want to do a half Elon, you can go with Chamath's plan. He's on six or seven. I'm on five, bro. I'm on five. Well, I mean, anything's possible. And then Freeberg's on four. I'm on three. I think three's the right number.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
All right. Listen, continued success.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
It's your opinion. One man's opinion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Which, that's kind of like crazy because you've got a mustache of a 70s porn star.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
So you're saying he's being human and addressing real issues instead of culture war issues and just talking like Kamala.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Okay. Chamath, your thoughts on Gavin's new podcast? What do you think? You know, you were there was famously a little dip of the toe where somebody made a podcast. I'm sorry, a landing page that you were going to run for governor. We had a little fun with that. What do you think of Gavin? What do you think of his podcast?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
This special is so good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Coming around the horn, Friedberg. What do you think of Gavin Newsom?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
We all watched it. It's hilarious. And you got three old guys here who also have had to deal with some of these issues. Do you guys have IVF?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Breast tax. Breast tax. Andrew, 2028, Trump's running for his third term versus Gavin Newsom. Who do you vote for?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
Chamath, do you want to be honest here, or are you au natural? Did you hit the three from half court, logo shot? What happened? My first four kids were natural. My fifth was IVF.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Fixing the American Dream with Andrew Schulz
No, but theoretically, if it wasn't a third term, Gavin versus Trump, who would you go?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I can't even believe you'd say that about Sacks. He's not even here to defend himself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Chamath is worrying about details. He's got like 17 kids now. I don't know if you know, but Chamath has got like a whole bunch of things. But I love this interview because the guy made a really interesting point, which was they're going to have to make these decisions at some point. They're going to have to learn the pros and cons, the upside, the downside to all these things, eating, iPad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And the quicker you get them to have agency to make these decisions for themselves with knowledge to ask questions, the more secure it will be. I found it a fascinating discussion. I like cause and effect, especially in teenagers. Now that I have a teenager, it's really good for them to learn, Hey, you know, if you don't do your homework, you have a problem and then you got to solve that problem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
How are we going to solve that problem? So I like to present it as what's your plan anytime they have a problem. Eight-year-old kids, 15-year-old kids. I just say, what's your plan to solve this? And then I like to hear their plan and let me know if you want to brainstorm it. But I thought it was a very interesting, super interesting discussion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
What's the actual reason? You know us for a long time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Self-correcting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world. We're really excited today. Back again, your Sultan of Science, David Friedberg. What do you got going on there, Friedberg? What's in the background? Everybody wants to know. Namaste.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That's a good tip. Yeah, I like that one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
All right, let's keep moving through this docket. We have David Sachs with us here. So, David, give us your philosophy of parenting. Okay, next item on the docket. Let's go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I asked David, what's your parenting philosophy? He said, oh, I set up their trust four years ago. So, he's good. Trust is set up. Everything's good. Parent philosophy, check.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You're all set, guys. Let me know how it works out. All right. Speaking of working out, we've got a vice president who isn't cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and who actually understands what AI is. J.D. Vance gave a great speech. I watched it myself. He talked about AI in Paris. This was on Tuesday at the AI Action Summit, whatever that is. And he gave a 15-minute banger of a speech.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
He talked about over-regulating AI and America's intention to dominate this. And we happen to have with us, Naval, the czar, the czar of AI. So before I go into all the details about the speech, I don't want to steal your thunder. Facts, this speech had a lot of verbiage, a lot of ideas that I've heard before that maybe we've all talked about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Maybe tell us a little bit about how this all came together. And how proud you are. I mean, gosh, having a vice president who understands AI is just, it's mind-blowing. He could speak on a topic that's topical, credible. This was an awesome moment for America, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I'm implying you might have workshopped it with him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Okay, well, it was on point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
He made four main points about the Trump administration's approach to AI. He's going to ensure, this is point one, that American AI continues to be the gold standard. Fantastic check. Two, he says that the administration understands that excessive regulation could kill AI just as it's taking off. And he did this in front of all the EU elites who love regulation. did it on their home court.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And then he said, number three, AI must remain free from ideological bias, as we've talked about here on this program. And then number four, the White House, he said, will, quote, maintain a pro-worker growth path for AI so that it can be a potent tool for job creation in the U.S. So what are your thoughts on the four major bullet points in his speech here in Paris?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That tracks. Yeah. That tracks. And of course, with us again, your chairman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Let's say, Andrea, Allison, Susan. I mean, it was like a... A lot of cute girls. I was out dating girls, Freeburg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That was my favorite part.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I was not on my Apple II playing Civilization.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Naval, did you see the speech and your thoughts just generally on JD Vance and having somebody like this, you know, representing us and wanting to win American exceptionalism?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Whoa, whoa, don't get me in trouble, man. The 80s were good to me in Brooklyn. Rejection, the video game. You have three lives. Rejected. Rejected. It's a numbers game, Chamath. As you know, as you well know, it is a numbers game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Well said. Probably should go with the Greek model, having many gods and heroes as well. Freeberg, you heard the J.D. Vance speech, I assume. What are your thoughts on overregulation and maybe to Naval's point, one person owning this versus open source?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Oh, no. What is this one?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That's fat J-Cow. That's fat J-Cow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Help out your uncle with the thin J-Cow. That's pre-ezympic. You know what he was slaying in there?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Are you a techno pessimist? Are you optimist? Because you bring up the downside of an awful lot here on the program, but you are working every day in a very optimistic way to breed, you know, better strawberries and potatoes for folks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And weightlifting. Beef jerky. Go find my Leonardo DiCaprio picture, please, and replace my fat J-Cow picture with that. Thank you. Oh, God, I was fat. Man, plus 40 pounds is a lot heavier than I am. It's no joke. It's no joke. 40 pounds is a lot. It's no joke, bro. I mean, there's so many great emo photos of me. I'm proud of you. Thank you, my man. Thank you, my man.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Got it. Okay. Putting it in full context.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Chamath, you want to wrap this up for us? What are your thoughts on J.D.?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Yeah. And there was like a little secondary conversation that emerged, Sax, that I would love to engage you with, if you're willing, which is this civil war, quote unquote, between maybe MAGA 1.0, MAGA 2.0, techies in the MAGA party like ourselves. And maybe the core MAGA folks, we can pull up the tweet here in JD's own word, and he's been engaging people in his own words.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
It's very clear that he's writing these tweets, a distinct difference between other politicians and this administration, and they just tell you what... They think. Here it is. I'll try and write something to address this in detail, says J.D. Vance's tweet, but I think this civil war is overstated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Though, yes, there are some real divergences between the populace, I would describe that as MAGA, and the techies. But briefly, in general, I dislike substituting American labor for cheap labor. My views on immigration and offshoring flow from this. I like growth and productivity gains, and this informs my view on tech and regulation when it comes to AI. Specifically, the risks are...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
How you doing, brother? How you doing? Chairman, dictator, Jamal. Good, good, good. You good? You get to our guest today. Oh, all right. We are really excited today. Today, for the first time on the All In podcast, the Iron Fist of AngelList, the zen-like mage of the early stage. He has such a way with words. He's the Socrates of nerds. Please welcome my guy, Namaste Naval. How you doing?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Number one, overstated, to your point, Naval. Or two, difficult to avoid. One of my many real concerns, for instance, is about consumer fraud. That's a valid reason to worry about safety. But the other problem is much worse if a peer nation is six months ahead of the US on AI. Again, I'll try and say more. And this is JD going right at, I think, one of the more controversial topics, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
that the administration is dealing with and has dealt with when it comes to immigration and tech, because these two things are dovetailing each other. If we lose millions of driver jobs, which we will in the next 10 years, just like we lost millions of cashier jobs, well, that's going to impact how our nation and many of the voters look at
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
the border and immigration we might not be able to let as many people immigrate here if we're losing millions of jobs to ai and self-driving cars what are your thoughts on him engaging this directly sax well the first point he's making there is about wage pressure right which is when you throw up in our borders or you throw up in american markets to products that can be made
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
All right, Naval, this seems to be one of the main issues of our time. Four of the five people on this podcast right now are immigrants. So we have this amazing tradition in America. This is a country built by immigrants for immigrants. Do you think that should change now in the face of job destruction, which I know you've been tracking? self-driving pretty acutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
We both have an interest there, I think, over the years. You know, what's the solution here if we're going to see a bunch of job displacement, which will happen for certain jobs? We all kind of know that. Should we shut the border and not let the next Naval, Chamath, Sachs, and Friedberg into the country?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
The intros are back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That's your superpower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Absolutely. That's actually, you know what? Interestingly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That they were- Yeah, yeah, yeah, something. Really? Oh, my God. That's like exhibit A. Wow. I didn't know that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I mean, that's what I'm manifesting. It's getting close. We've been in the top 10. So, I mean, the weekends are good for all in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I think it could. If you have some really great pithy insights, we might go right to the top.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And where is your loyalty? Freeberg, we used to have this concept of a melting pot, of this assimilation. And that was a good thing. Then it became cultural appropriation. We kind of made a right turn here. Where do you stand on this? Recruiting the best and brightest and forcing them to assimilate, making sure that they're down with this. Not forcing, Jason. Find the people that care to be here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Yeah, let me restate that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Are you going to send us your heart?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You don't believe that... Self-driving is coming. Hold on a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I end here at the heart. I don't send it out. I keep it right here. I put both hands on the heart and I hold it. Nice and steady. I hold it in. It's sending out to you, but just not explicitly. All right. For those of you who don't know, Naval was an entrepreneur. He kicked a bit of ass. He got his ass kicked, and then he started Venture Hacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Do you think it's too early, Freeberg, given Optimus and all these robots being created, what we're seeing in self-driving, you've talked about the ramp up with Waymo, to actually say we will not see millions of jobs and millions of people get displaced from those jobs? What do you think, Freeberg? I'm curious your thoughts, because that is the counter argument.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And he started emailing folks and saying, you know, 15, 20 years ago, maybe 15, here are some deals in Silicon Valley. He went around, he started writing 50K, 100K checks. He hit a bunch of home runs. And he turned venture hacks into AngelList. And then he has invested in a ton of great startups. Maybe give us some of the greatest hits there, Deval.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You're seeing it on the ground, correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Exactly. Naval, you and I watched this happen. We had a front row seat to it. Back in the day, when you were doing venture hacks, and I was doing Open Angel Forum, we had to like fight to find five or 10 companies a month. Then the cost of running these companies went down. They went down massively from 5 million to start a company to two, then to 250k, then to 100k.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I think what we're seeing is like three things concurrently, you're going to see all these jobs go away for automation, self driving cars, cashiers, etc. But we're going to also see static team size at places like Google, they're just not hiring, because they're just having the existing bloated employee base, learn the tools.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
But I don't know if you're seeing this, the number of startups able to get a product to market with two or three people and get to a million in revenue is booming. What are you seeing in the startup landscape?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Phil Kaplan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
The new programming language is English. Chamath, you want to wrap us up here on this opportunity slash displacement slash chaos?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I'm in the camp of more opportunity. You know, I got to watch the movie industry a whole bunch when the digital cameras came out and more people started making documentaries, more people started making independent film shorts. And then of course the YouTube revolution, people started making videos on YouTube or podcasts like this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And if you look at what happened with like the special effects industry as well, we need far fewer people to make a Star Wars movie, to make a Star Wars series, to make a Marvel series. As we've seen, now we can get the Mandalorian and Ashoka and all these other series with smaller numbers of people. And they look better than obviously the original Star Wars series or even the prequels.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
So there's going to be so many more opportunities. We're now making more TV shows, more series, everything we wanted to see of every little character. That's the same thing that's happening in startups. I can't believe that there is an app now, Naval, called Slopes, just for skiing. And there are 20 really good apps for just meditation. And there are 10 really good ones just for fasting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
We're going down this long tail of opportunity, and there'll be plenty of million to $10 million businesses for us if people learn to use these tools.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Which one?
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JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I think for a lot of people, it feels great.
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JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And I think DeepSeq- So it's going to come right back to us. Well, safety of their equity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Who's going to get to AGI first, Naval? Is it going to be an open source? Who's going to win? Is it going to be open source or closed source? Who's going to win the day? If we're sitting here five, 10 years from now, and we're looking at the top three language models, which is going to be... I'm going to get in a lot of trouble for this, but I don't think we know how to build AGI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You know what? I'm going to get them some thumb drives. We can increase the throughput of the elevator with some thumb drives. It would be incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Let's take a moment, everybody, to thank our czar. We miss him. We wish he could be here for the whole show. Thank you, Czar. Thank you to the Czar. Good to see you guys. We miss you. We miss you, little buddy. I wish we could talk about Ukraine, but we're not allowed. Get back to work. We'll talk about it another time over coffee. I'll see you in the commissary. Thanks for the invite. Bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Oh, man, I'm so excited. I'm Naval. Sachs invited me to go to the military mess. I'm going to be in the commissary with Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I did. Yes, I did. I put it on his calendar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
What are your thoughts, Chamath, about tariffs and network effects? It does seem like we do want to have redundancy in supply chains. So there are some exceptions here. Any thoughts on how this might play out? Because, yeah, Trump brings up tariffs every 48 hours, and then it doesn't seem like any of them land. So I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I'm still on my 72-hour Trump rule, which is whatever he says, wait 72 hours and then maybe see if it actually comes to pass. Where do you stand on all these tariffs and tariff talk?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Freeberg, any thoughts on these tariffs? You've been involved in the global marketplace, especially when it comes to produce and wheat and all this corn and everything. What do you think the dynamic here is going to be? Or is it saber rattling in a tool for Trump?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
We should be running the table on it. We should have a massive surplus. And hey, if you're worried about you know, a couple of million of DoorDash, Uber drivers losing their jobs to automation, like, hey, there's going to be factories to build these parts for these drones that we're going to need. So there's a lot of opportunity, I guess, for people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
All right, listen, I want to get to two more stories here. We have a really interesting copyright story that I wanted to touch on. Thomson Reuters just won the first major US AI copyright case, and Fair Use played a major role in this decision. This has huge implications for AI companies here in the United States. Obviously, OpenAI and the New York Times Getty Images versus Stability.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
We've talked about these, but it's been a little while because the legal system takes a little bit of time. And these are very complicated cases, as we've talked about. Thomson Reuters owns Westlaw. If you don't know that, it's kind of like LexisNexis. It's one of the legal databases out there that lawyers use to find cases, etc.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And they have a paid product with summaries and analysis of legal decisions back in 2020. This is two years before ChatGPT. Reuters sued a legal research competitor called Ross for copyright infringement. Ross had created an AI-powered legal search engine. Sounds great. But Ross had asked Westlaw if they would pay a license to its content for training. Westlaw said no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
This all went back and forth, and then Ross signed a similar deal with a company called LegalEase. The problem is LegalEase's database was just copied and pasted from a bunch of Westlaw answers. So Reuters, Westlaw, sued Ross in 2020, accusing the company of being precariously liable for LegalEase's direct infringement. Super important point. Anyway, the judge originally...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
favored Ross in fair use. This week, the judge reversed this ruling and found Ross liable, noting that after further review, fair use does not apply in this case. This is the first major win. And we debated this. So here's a clip. You know, you heard it here first on the All In pod. What I would say is, when you look at that fair use doctrine, I've got a lot of experience with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
The fourth factor test, I'm sure you're well aware of this, is the effect of the use on the potential market and the value of the work. If you look at the lawsuits that are starting to emerge, it is Getty's right to then make derivative products based on their images. I think we would all agree.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Stable diffusion, when they use these open web, that is no excuse to use an open web crawler to avoid getting a license from the original owner of that Just because you can technically do it doesn't mean you're allowed to do it. In fact, the open web projects that provide these say explicitly, we do not give you the right to use this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You have to then go read the copyright laws on each of those websites. And on top of that, if somebody were to steal the copyrights, of other people put it on the open web, which is happening all day long, you still if you're building a derivative work like this, you still need to go get it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
So it's no excuse that I took some site in Russia that did a bunch of copyright violation, and then I index them for my training model. So I think this is going to result in Bert, can you shoot me in the face?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Well, since these guys don't give a shit about copyright holders. No, I care about it. Naval, what do you think about, you know, I'm so glad you're here, Naval, to actually talk about the topics these two other guys would engage me with.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Yeah, absolutely. That would be a fine thing. I have a prediction here. I think this is all going to wind up like the Naps for Spotify case. For people who don't know, Spotify pays, I think, 65 cents on the dollar to the original underwriters of that content, the music industry. and they figured out a way to make a business and Napster is roadkill.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I think that there is a non zero chance like it might be five or 10% that opening is going to lose the New York Times lawsuit and they're gonna lose it hard and they're gonna be injunctions. And I think it's the settlement might be that these language models, especially the closed ones are going to have to pay some percentage
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
in a negotiated settlement of their revenue, half, two thirds to the content holders. And this could make the content industry have a massive, massive uplift and a massive resurgence.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That's all I wanted to hear was one time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Jason was right. Oh my God, you were right. I've been through this so many times that these, I think this is, you know, Rupert Murdoch said we should hold the line with Google and not allow them to index our content without a license. And Google navigated it successfully. And they were able to not get him to stop. I think what's happened now is that the New York Times remembers that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
They all remember... losing their content in these snippets and the one box to Google and they couldn't get that genie back in the bottle. I think the New York Times realizes this is their payday. I think the New York Times will make more money from licenses from LLMs than they will make from advertising or subscriptions eventually. This will renew the model.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Wow, okay, sure, if you don't have a political reason, whatever. But I can tell you, as a user, I loved the Wirecutter. I think you knew, Brian, and everybody over at the Wirecutter. That was such an event. Wirecutter, fair enough.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
What a great product. I used to pay for the New York Times. I no longer pay for the New York Times. My main reason was I would go to the Wirecutter, and I would just buy whatever they told me to buy. Now, I go to ChatGPT, which I pay for. And Chatsy B.T. tells me what to buy based on the Wirecutter, and I'm already paying for it, so I stopped paying for it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
He's got weird musical taste. Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Well, the licensing thing is happening here. I have a book out from Harper business. On the shelf behind me. And I'm getting 2,500 smackaroos for the next three years for Microsoft indexing it. So they're going out and they're licensing this stuff. You're getting $2,500.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
To go into an LLM. to go into Microsoft specifically. And you know what, I'm going to sign it, I decided, because I just want to set the precedent. Maybe next time it's 10,000. Maybe next time it's 250. I don't care. I just want to see people have their content respected. And I'm just hoping that Sam Waltman loses this lawsuit and they get an injunction against it. Hey,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Well, just because he's just such a weasel in terms of like making open AI into a closed thing. I mean, I like Sam personally, but I think what he did was like the super weasel move of all time for his own personal benefit. If he, and this whole lying, like, oh, I have no equity. I get healthcare. He does it for the love. And now I get 10%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
The benefits. I think he got healthcare. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Yeah, why don't they get a percentage of the revenue? Just give them like 10% of the revenue goes to the team.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
That's called a shell game and a scam.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I mean, what a great proposal we just workshopped here. What if they just, what do they make? Six billion a year? Just take 10% of it, 600 million every year, and that goes into a bonus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Okay, eventually.
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JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Yeah. Man, I got stories about 409As that would... Exactly. Oh, yeah. Everything is gamed. 409As are gamed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I mean, imagine if a founder you invested in, this is just a total imaginary situation, Naval, had like a great term sheet at some incredible dollar amount, didn't take it, ran the valuation down to like under a million, gave themselves a bunch of shares, and then took it three months later. Well, I don't know. What would that be called? Securities fraud? Can we wrap up?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Of course. What about you, Naval? Tell us your one down. Oh, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
What's your number? What's your number?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You know, the direct correlation for me is if I do something cognitively like, you know, big heavy duty conversations or whatever. So no heavy conversations at the end of the night, no existential conversations in the night. And then if I go rucking. I have the, you know, on the ranch, I put on a 35 pound weight vest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
No, no, no. If I do it anytime during the day, I typically do it in the morning or the afternoon. But the one to two mile rock with the 35 pounds, whatever it is, it just tires my whole body out. So that when I do lay down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You know, I mean, this pot is the top 10 pot in the world, Jamal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Well, I take a warm bath and I send J. Cal a picture of my feet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I'm trying to get eight. I hit between six and seven consistently. I try to go to bed at 11 to 1 a.m. window and get up the seven to... eight window.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Wait, what was the brand? You said you went for another brand. I want to know the brand.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Freebird, this is called working out, Freebird, what you're seeing here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You know, actually the Dalai Lama has these great, on his YouTube channel, he's got these great like two hour discussions. You get about 20, 30 minutes into that, you will fall asleep.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
We could have sniped that, man. You could have made money. Yeah, Polymarket had it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You worry about any of these? Do you think any of them are too spicy for your taste? Or you just like the whole burn it down, put in the crazy like outsiders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Is this a consumer hardware? What do we got going on here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
You know how I learned about syndicates? The first syndicate I ever did on AngelList, I think is still the biggest, I don't know, 5%, and Naval's my partner on this, for calm.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Let us know where to send the check. Get that black cherry chip Van Leeuwen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
I love me some Bobby Kennedy. Let's get Bobby Kennedy back on the pod. Let's get Bobby. Hey, Bobby, come back on the pod. Four. Lazar. David Sachs. Your Sultan of Science, David Freeberg. The Chairman Dictator, Chamath Palihapitiya. And Namaste Navar. I am the world's greatest moderator. We'll see you next time on the All In Pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Wes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Who are you talking to?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
And that one went super viral.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
yeah yeah yeah you did a recently a podcast with tim ferris on parenting this was out there i love this i bought the book from this guy yeah Just give a brief overview of this philosophy of parenting. Oh, I didn't listen to this. I have to write this down. Tell us. You're going to love this. This spoke to me, but it was a little crazy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
JD Vance's AI Speech, Techno-Optimists vs Doomers, Tariffs, AI Court Cases with Naval Ravikant
This is the beginning of infinity guy. That's the book that you always reference.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Wow, there it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Tell us about what your rules for blows are.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
I think he's... I know I'm being a bit facetious here. I understand this is very strategic, this one. But I'm just thinking the next domino, I would like to get Cuba, maybe Portugal. I don't know who 80% of people, Sian, what do you think, in the country want to join?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Suburb.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Do you think that, Friedberg? I'm curious.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
That creaking sound you hear are the libs rolling in the guillotines. Yes, he bought the small town he lives in. Joe Lonsdale's here. Of course, he is a venture capitalist, the founder of 8VC. They've got six Billy in AUM, co-founded Palantir, OpenGov, and Adapar, $3 billion-plus companies he co-founded. And... an early investor in Andro. I'm in the market for secondary shares.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This is an interesting triangulation theory that people have been speculating about. And there are a couple of caveats here, Joe. Number one, we do have lowering income tax and lowering services experiment. It's called Florida, Texas, and a couple of the states where they have lower income tax and more consumption tax. We pay a lot more in real estate taxes here, something we consume.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Putting that aside, The really interesting issue is we're at the lowest unemployment of our lifetime, 4%. Where are all these workers going to come from? What do you think, Joe, now that you've heard the two other panelists here discuss it, what are we trying to get to? Where is the destination? At the end of this term, Trump's lame duck. He can go wild here. He's not running for re-election.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What do you think he wants to see? Do you think he just wants to cements some sort of legacy? And if so, what's that legacy? And how do these actions equal his goals and legacy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You know how to reach me, folks. If you're selling your secondary in Andro, I'm building a position for obvious reasons. And Oculus Wish, Oscar Health, amongst his other investments. Hey, what was the feedback, Joe, on your first appearance here on the All In pod?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Well, this is a key point because you do need to have predictability to make investment and reciprocity. So really two important points Chamath's making here. One on reciprocity. These things haven't been looked at for a while. I'm not sure how they got so out of whack, but just putting some facts to this, Chamath's exactly correct.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We get placed, when we send cars to the EU, they get a 10% tariff, but When we get their cars, it's a two and a half percent term. Who let it get out of whack? I'm not sure. But why not make the reciprocity perfect and just, hey, you say 10, we say 10, you say two and a half, we say two and a half.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And that would make, I think, a lot more sense just to put some numbers here on government employees. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. A lot of our spending is non-employee related. But it is, if you look over the last two administrations, we have added 1.2 million, 1.3 million employees across all. I disagree.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Hold on, let me just finish the sentence so you have the facts and then you can disagree with the facts. 1.3 million additional employees added. This does not include contractors. And so we don't know what USA was doing with NGOs and contractors. And I think that's where we do need to get some clarity. And to Chamath's point, this has all got to become predictable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You cannot put tariffs on off every week, or else how does your friend Dave, who wants to do the LED lighting, or you're encouraging to do LED lighting, know if they should build a factory and invest 10 million in that? You disagree with the number of employees?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
People tune in from time to time, and that's why we call it the number one podcast in the world. How are you doing, Chamath Palihapitiya? How are you doing, brother? I'm doing really well. Okay. Once again, giving me a ton to work with there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I was talking just about the employees. That's a much smaller percentage.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
No cojones. Let me just show you one chart to back that up. I have my new disgraciad.com for the week. Look at this, Chamath. We want to talk about software and waste. 35,855, according to Doge, breaking news, ServiceNow licenses on three products only being used by 84 people in our government. Are you kidding me? 11,000 Acrobat licenses with 0.0 users. Disgraciad! Absolutely abhorrent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And I'm saying it right now. I want an investigation into procurement. Who sold this? Who bought it? This could be a crime. This could be fraud. There could be kickbacks. I'm saying there could be. I don't think it's that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Totally correct. If ServiceNow ever wants to work with the government again, Mr. President, Mr. President, our president, I want them to pay us back. for the unused licenses, and I want a full order for the last 10 years. If they don't pay us back that money and give us a credit, ban forever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Oh, well, I asked you how you're doing. Maybe you say, oh, I had a great time with my kids. I took them to Disneyland or I don't know, chef made an amazing arugula. You used to give me some color to work with here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Of course, but they should still give us a credit. I want the money back for the American people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I think Adobe needs- 11,000 with zero users?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Oh, this was throwing the gold bars off the castle the last day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, so she's renewing her visa. Hopefully, she'll be able to get back in the country. I know we've tightened up the borders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yes, that was the metaphor I was about to use. It's like, you know, you start with, you cut out the goddamn service now in Adobe subscriptions, and then you work on something, you know, more deft, and maybe that's where we are. IRA, just for the audience, inflation reduction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
That's just wrong. Why didn't you lead with DEI or something? You would have gotten a billion. You just led with the wrong thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You don't have any equity in there for the minerals?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And I think you already put a down payment on. Freiburg, how was your week? How's everything going at O'Hallow? You having a productive week?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You have Palantir, you have Andro. So go ahead, you answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What was the cost difference between the bids like? Are you saving us massive money?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I mean, it's hard. Running a business is hard. You hire the smartest people you know. And what happens? They bring you all the problems they can't solve. So it's never easy. We've got an incredible docket today. Let's just start with I'll give you a quick recap, boys, of the week since we last taped. To say the zone was flooded, in the words of Steve Bannon, would be an understatement.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You guys got exactly right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
There's oversight, obviously. But there's whistleblowers as well. And there's the role of the press in all of this to sort of fact check it and to check in on it as a safeguard with the public getting engaged. And that's one of the great things that Doge has done. By having a Twitter handle, I can pull up, hey, here's what's going on with these licenses and make an example.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So that kind of transparency helps. And then finally, we have to look at campaign finance. That is where a lot of the appearance of impropriety exists.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Here's your Trump tsunami for the week. Thursday, when we taped the Epstein file dump fiasco. You remember that, Joe, right? Big zero, big nothing burger. Then, Friday, Zelensky was dressed down and kicked out of the White House. by the vice president and presidents. Markets collapsed. They rebounded. On Saturday, we got a beautiful day off. Video of Trump dancing down a catwalk to YMCA.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Joe, I think you telling us, hey, I trust these people. They're our friends. You know, that works with all of us because, yes, we know them. We know they're going to do the stand-up right thing. And if you already have a ton of money, like some incremental amount of money is not going to move the needle for you. It's farcical for us to think that David Sachs is going to give up
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
four years of income producing, have to sell all his positions, and that is in some way good for his balance sheet. It is not. He's going to miss out on four years of AI and the massive run-up of our lifetime in order to serve the country. But I can tell you, people don't believe that. Just like, you know, you talked about the kleptocracy and the revolving door to Raytheon or whoever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
that people have talked about forever. What you need is whistleblower protections, journalists going after this, like Barry Weiss is doing old school journalism investigative. The whistleblower laws are great in our country, we need to keep reinforcing those. But I'm going to go back to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
we need to limit campaign contributions, we have to get rid of super PACs, because these create the appearance of impropriety and the appearance of impropriety with Trump's mean coin. And that announcement on Sunday for the crypto reserve was, you know, it doesn't help the mission here that Trump is trying to get done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So maybe you could speak to that, because that's where the appearance of impropriety is great. You got people like sailor, who's doing his Bitcoin thing, he's going on Friday, and you know, sacks will do a little bit here and announce some stuff on the program, hopefully.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
But maybe you could talk about what you objected to with the coins, the meme coin and or the the announcement of the crypto reserve. Should our government and after all this donations from massive people like I saw at the crypto ball, all the people who were tweeted by Trump, that looks terrible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Are you saying with like, there's many forms of influence that you think super PACs and rich people should be able to I think speech is important. $50 million $20 million donations, you'd actually think that's fair for democracy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Should there be a cap? When you say speech, you mean write a check. You mean write very large checks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What about you? Do you think that Soros, Elon, let's take the names out of it? Do you think there should be a cap on what you're able to donate to super PACs? Because this does create the massive appearance of impropriety, whether it's in crypto, whether it's on the, you know, Soros on the Democrat side.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Maybe he played some golf. He was at the White House South. Mar-a-Lago. Sunday, 9.24 a.m. Eastern, the president pumps three specific cryptos, Solana, Cardona, XRP, to be in the first government strategic crypto reserve, Joe Lonsdale starts tweeting, I start tweeting, everybody's tweeting, he quickly retweeted himself included Ethereum and Bitcoin, some decentralized coins.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This seems to be I mean, I'm in favor of there being more hard caps, whether it's 510 or 25 million, I think there needs to be caps. And I think we should put a fund together for the last two or three people and let them get that money from the government. It's to run their campaigns like other countries do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, so you and I are in that camp, Joe's in the other. Freeberg, your thoughts. You're the deciding vote here. It's two to one in terms of the panel. It's not two to one. Well, you just said to me you think we should go back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I want to see people own it here in the discourse. Or, Freeberg, you can say pass, but you don't get to say nothing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Reaction was wow, crazy. You had a little bit of a spicy take, Joe, we'll get into that later. And I'm sure our friend David Sachs will have much to say in the second half of the program. but it was pretty negative. Cardona ripped 70%, XRP 32%, Solana 25%. And then there was this crazy trade. One whale went 50 times long on BTC and ETH, $200 million position on just a $4 million investment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Well, you can pay them to join a super PAC or something like that. But hold on. Let me just get Joe involved here. So, Joe, you heard Freeberg's. You're kind of in alignment, I think, broadly. But we can define some very specific things that are obviously political, like the window of when you spend the money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Like telling people, well, because you could say in the year leading up to the election, hold on, let me finish. What if I'm not targeting a specific vote? I get it, I get it. If you're targeting an issue, that's one thing. But when you tell people, she's for they, them, he's for you, that's clearly a political ad. Now you could take those ads, you could take canvassing, you could...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
could define a subset of behaviors and you could say you can raise up to this amount of money per person in that way that to me those things are explicitly political when you tell people this is about candidate a versus candidate b if you were to say this we're not going to mention any candidates but we're going to talk about your puppies and you're trying to increase your q score here on the goddamn pod by saving puppies don't be a
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I happen to be agreeing with you. I just don't like how many points you're scoring with the audience over it. Did you guys see this thing on Instagram my wife showed me? I'm going to save five puppies for my ranch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world. Man, we're starting off with three of the four original band members. Chamath Palihapitiya, he's your chairman dictator. The sultan of science, David Freberg. And of course, I'm your host, Jason Calacanis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Freiburg, I got 33 acres of paradise. Don't laugh. I got 33 acres of pyrotas. I'm going to save every animal in Central Texas. I'm going to eat them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Everybody trying to figure out who that was. I'll leave it to you to speculate. Then we start the week. Monday, Trump says significant tariffs with Canada and Mexico, the market collapse. He walks back tariffs a couple of hours later, and the market starts to rebound. Then at 2.38 p.m., Trump announces a $100 billion investment from TSMC in American fabs. Huzzah for that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, but if we just said you can spend up to 10 million a year doing political activity. $10 million a year gives you a cap, so you can only buy so many books and buy so many ads.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
But when you put the book in and say, vote for Biden, then we would say, okay, you put a vote for Biden stamp on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So if you put canvassing in there, I bet you it's 75%. So if we just say for those two activities, put a hard cap on them, I would be for that. But let's keep going.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
All right. Gentlemen, we can't talk about politics all day, as exciting as it is. Let's talk about this CoreWeave IPO. If you don't know, CoreWeave is part of a new type of infrastructure provider called Neo cloud. It's a fancy way of saying using GPUs to build data centers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This is a really interesting company because they got onto GPUs early and they had a lock in on a large number of Nvidia's GPUs. They've got 32 data centers with 250,000 Nvidia GPUs. As an example, when Elon built the largest fastest data center, Colossus, that was 100,000.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So this is, you know, really, really a big company, they're going to do an IPO analysts are estimating they're going to raise at least 3.5 billion at over $30 billion. Their secondary was 23 billion in November of 2024. So this is cooking with oil, they've got incredible revenue, by the way, 1.9 billion in 2024. But if you look at two years ago, how much revenue they have, the growth is amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Nick, put a chart in here and post because it's like a 10x, I think, each year or something crazy like that when I talked about it on the other pod. but they're very unprofitable, almost a billion dollars in loss in 2024. And that's interest payments on a lot of their debt. They have almost 8 billion in debt, huge debt load to buy all these GPUs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And that has been the question we've been talking about here, Chamath, is are these GPUs, are these neoclouds, fancy way of saying,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And our boy David Sachs gets dragged out to the podium for a quick 15-second cameo. Very nicely done to our boy David Sachs. And... Then Tuesday, we have the most chaotic State of the Union I've ever seen. Highlights include an angry man shaking a cane and getting kicked out. There were some auction paddles from the Libs. I don't know what they were bidding on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
People say useful lifespan, GPUs, three to five years before... The next generation is so much more powerful, especially in relation to power consumption, that it's worth running it. Now, with servers, old CPUs for running Facebook, it's a totally different story. You can keep those running five to seven years before it's not worth running them. You have to turn them off. What do you think here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I'm guessing is one exactly. That's cool for this company, Friedberg, they had massive revenue growth, but They have a dependency 60% of the revenue now from Microsoft and Microsoft seems to have done this either it's unclear, but maybe to serve as the open at AI deal where they needed to give them a bunch of infrastructure, or it might be for Azure. It's unclear.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
People have been asking this question for a couple of years now. But what do you think of a business with one client with 60% dependent?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Satya Nadell said that Microsoft was doing this maybe not for a long-term usage. So, Freeberg, your thoughts on CoreWeave?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
There were 13 Biden mentions and one Pocahontas. Wednesday. We have news that the Doge Blitz might slow down. Supreme Court chimed in with a 5-4 decision backing the federal judge who ordered the Trump admin to pay out $2 billion for USA contractors. Then there was a closed-door meeting with the Senate, with Elon. Maybe they discussed an approval process, maybe some voting-type things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Well, the founders have control of the company. And they sold 500 million in secondary a few months ago. They sold a lot. Maybe it's 150 each or something like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, they still own the majority.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, what's the worst that could happen if you speak negatively about somebody's business, you know?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What is it like to be on somebody's shit list for a decade? I don't know. The ratings keep going up for this week in startups and all in, so I'll take it. Shout out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I had a speaking gig, but my friend's at Eton.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
reached out to me so i might be trying to do a little grip right now are you plugging right now laura piana hasn't reached out but eton shirts which i'm wearing right now eton you know the famous uh shirt people are uh they've been reaching out and i also no no no no i got but i'm also saying tom ford's people reached out and said you know that lapel thing you can take that off if you want we'll have somebody come over so i just want to shout out my friends over there i have no commercial deal with them yet keton k-i-t-o-n jackets i've been wearing k-i-t-o-n very nice i would like to check them out on earth i wear them
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Also, yes, and Joe Lonsdale's outfits are done by the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs in China, he gets them specifically made for $17 each. I was recently sponsored by a company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And I had my watch collection and they did this for me when I was flying between Montenegro and Malta. Absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I'm just trolling. This is like four spy villains telling you how to look at the world. We should get rid of income tax. I'm sure everybody listening is like, hmm, really convenient. No income tax for the billionaires and sent to millionaires.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And then here we are today. Thursday, when we're taping markets down 2% on more tariff news, breaking news drops at 1130. Trump announced tariffs are off for Mexico. Markets aren't rebounding. We might be leaving NATO. Can I hold on? Yeah, breaking. We might be leaving NATO breaking. We're shutting down the Department of Education psych. We just found out we're not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
All right, let's keep going down the... All right, Chamath, you know, we've been going back and forth in the group chat and you've been talking about it publicly, maybe Main Street. versus Wall Street? And what's going on in the markets here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Because there's EU bond issues, we obviously seems like in some ways, maybe the Trump campaign is not thinking about the stock market as much as they're thinking about the bond market. Explain to us your take on markets right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
It says here, breaking news from, I guess, unusual wells. Trump has just said he's not looking at the stock market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, gentlemen, that's the way that was.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Joe, you think this is the refinancing of our debt is the end game here. There's like maybe 10% of people who seem to have fallen in that camp when I queried on these four group chats. Hey, you know, if we can depress everything, we lower consumption, we break inflation even more. Maybe people lose their jobs, you know, less consumption.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And rates go down, we have to cut rates three or four times, put pressure on the Fed, then we can maybe refinance our debt, which is coming up some percentage of it. What do you think of that theory?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I mean, you said there's some more clever ways to get there. Obviously, we don't want to see 89 10% unemployment. That's another way to get there. And we don't want that because you know, Main Street equals jobs. So what do you what is your other ways to get there?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Government can't do that though, right? Government can't be involved in that. That's up to us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Sam, I'm not here, please.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Fridberg, you heard the two gentlemen. What are your thoughts on the refinancing of interest? As I've done before, I'm going to give you incredible leadership credit for three years ago on this pod pushing all of us to really think about what would happen if the debt increased another $8 trillion, which it did. And I think that influenced a lot of people in our circles.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And obviously, that's something that the president took on when none of us thought he would, any president would ever take on that issue. How much pain? Yeah. Do you think Trump is willing to take with the stock market going down in order to refinance the debt? Is he willing to be incredibly unpopular?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Is he willing to deal with the criticism from Wall Street and from equity holders over some sustained period? And how much would he be? If the market goes down 10%, 20%, do you think he's going to cry uncle? Or do you think he's willing to take that kind of pain-free burden?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
People are here for that. That's actually a pretty good ratio in poker if you can win that many hands.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Let's address that specifically with Ukraine. You're a bit of a hawk, an American exceptionalist, Joe, and... We are looking at a situation where we spent $175 billion. There were some other numbers that Trump was floating around that were incorrect, and they got fact-checked. $175 billion is what we're actually in for, according to all accounts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This was done, as I said many times on this very program and got laughed at and joked about, done on a lease loan. Trump, because these things were done on a lease loan, now has the upper hand with Zelensky. And he's a great negotiator. And he said, we want 500 billion back. Don't need to make this about dollars and cents here, because obviously this is life and death and people's democracy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We're talking about their sovereignty. But that $175 billion, if he gets that $500 billion back, that's a 42% IRR in three years on this. Even if we just got our money back, that would be fine for the American people. How do you look at the war in Ukraine, both financially and in terms of containing Putin, and finally, in terms of our participation in NATO? Is it time for us to leave NATO?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Joe Lonsdale.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Thank you for saying that. It's refreshing to hear it on this podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I mean, I don't remember a more eventful week, Joe. Is this a little too much, maybe?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
outcome here? Is it time for maybe Europe to just go it alone? Because they don't seem to like what happened last Friday at the White House. They Yeah, and maybe do you think it's time maybe that we we bow out and let them arm up?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What do you think, Chamath? This NATO question seems like Europe is kind of signaling that they're willing to go it alone. And should the United States just say, OK, go for it, we're out? Because that's literally what Sachs retweeted recently. He just said, hey, we're out. It's your problem. And I think the administration has given him free reign to discuss the topic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
He discussed it here for many years. What are your thoughts? Should we be out on NATO?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
and david sachs from the original band will be on the second half of the show we're going to do some of the classics yes we get some of the classics including ukraine ukraine ukraine coming up on the second half of the show in our greatest hits revival tour but with us again sitting in the red throne is the one the only joe lonsdale is back
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Well, you also have, yeah, other organizations, Interpol, right? We have that. You have the UN. I mean, it is maybe time to just re-underwrite each of them. Freebird, what do you think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Oh, my Lord. Well, and Shalom is hello and goodbye, right? Just to clarify, as it were, you would say both, right? Shut up. Yeah, ambiguous word. And peace. Well, maybe he's leaving it into interpretation. Maybe they get to pick. Maybe it's hello?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Oh, he did. Yeah, it's your choice. Okay, it's a choose your own adventure Hamas from the President of the United States. But I think we should probably get into tariffs. This is confounding to most people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I think actually what you're talking about is a Star Trek beautiful version of abundance in the world. If these rare earth minerals create unlimited energy and you're energy independent, you look at the world differently. And Joe, we certainly in America look at the world differently as we're all Gen Xers here, basically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We look at the world much differently now since we have energy independence than we did under Bush and these foreign wars, you know. In the Middle East, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
None of us have been on yet. Appreciate it. We kind of get you on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I mean, have you had sacks on? Have you had sacks on at least, American Optimist?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Let's talk about this ChatGPT. I guess they came out with 4.5. It was such a dud. I didn't even realize that they launched it. Chamath, you monitored this? Or Freeberg, did you try it? Because I've been using Grok as my default now, then Gemini, then ChatGPT. That's my order right now because I wanted to see how good Grok is. And man, Grok is really caught up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And I don't have an interest here in, you know, I don't have equity in any of these companies. I own Google in the public markets, but... I don't own the other two, but pretty amazing, yeah? What do you think of this 4.5 dud and what it means, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Maybe since I just did the whole rundown, I won't go into all the details about tariffs again, but just looking at it from first principles, Joe, I asked a couple of group chats, you're in one of them, in fact, And I have about, I would say about 400 people total in these four group chats. What's the strategy here? What do you think Trump is trying to accomplish? And man, I got a range of answers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
inside of x, it's great point this out to explain to people when you're in Twitter, now x, on the top right hand of a tweet, there's an x AI button, when you click it, it just gives you the full context of the tweet. So I was reading one of Dara's from Uber's tweets about autonomy, I guess they added two more partners when I clicked it, it gave me more than I ever could want.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
It was almost like a deep research of the context of a very short retweet he did. And I didn't have to cut and paste and form a question. So owning a social network equals instant. And here we're going to show it with Joe Lonsdale's, where he says, Hey, listen, the you know, the the crypto tax feels like taxation to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And look, it goes and finds four web pages, you can see there, it tells you which ones Wikipedia and CNBC amongst them. And then it gives Joe's position. This is like very elegant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What this means, to translate into plain English for humans listening, is they basically are optimizing for the tests that are the benchmark, which is kind of like a person in high school or optimizing for the SATs. It doesn't mean they're going to be a great student, but it may mean that they just spent a lot of time taking SAT tests.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Like the safety test for cars that's not run by the companies. Got it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This is like a hundred Michelin star restaurants opening up in your city. You just don't have enough meals to eat. We're basically drowning in abundance to Freeburg's point. I don't think we understand exactly how golden... how golden this golden age is in terms of technology.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Let me ask you, what is Trump, in your estimation, trying to accomplish with the tariffs on, the tariffs off, the tariff ons, the tariffs offs? As Chamath said here, this is creating more chaos than any of us have ever seen in markets.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
No, Google's doing it. When you're logged in, you will get the snippet at the top Inside of YouTube, they're doing summaries of the chat and the comments. And then you think about what Meta could do. You know, they already put the AI box up there, but, you know, they'll knock some of that off.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Does anyone use that anymore?
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Yeah, I mean, that is super true. All this, I think, leads to... so much abundance. What I'm seeing in startups, I was the first investor in a company called Superhuman, very elegant software, luxury software for email productivity. Give it a shot. What he did was, I didn't mean it as a super plug here, but anyway, I'm so in love with the company and the founder.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I just had them on this week in startups. He's like one of the best product minds I've ever met. Keep going. Extraordinary. and superhuman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Now, because it's gotten so cheap to do AI, that they are composing in this beta, I'm in all of the replies to your email in real time on the back end, and you can see potential drafts, they summarize everything, even if you never read the summary, that would be cost prohibitive, six to 12 months ago, but now it's a no brainer, because they're paid software, it's like,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So this is going to get very interesting, very quick. Joe, your thoughts on this abundance?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And it's not slowing down is the other piece of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
No, that's the part that's so fascinating to me. And then there's a really interesting ripple that I don't know if you guys are aware of yet. But journalists who have been losing their jobs at a tremendous pace are now being hired by data aggregators to come in, look at queries.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Let's say you had an expertise in agriculture, Friedberg, they'll pay you and I actually saw one of these job descriptions, 40 bucks an hour to sit there and answer questions about agriculture, look at answers, and refine them and do reinforcement learning. we're going to have a new job class, which is people who train AIs, and people who fact check AIs and refine AIs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And this could be a 50 to $150,000 a year job. Because every time you make the AI a little better, everybody on the planet gets to benefit from it. This is an extraordinary new job career. I don't know what it's going to be called reinforcement learner. I don't know, Freeberg, you get the last take here. Great job on the abundance angle, which just pushed a really great discussion here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Wrap us up with your thoughts on these LLMs and the pace of AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What are you obsessed with in the AI front? Are there things at Ohalo?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, and you're paying, that means, the $200 a month?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
That's Google's cloud for people who don't know that right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
They're incredible, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Hey, as we wrap here, we're following our muse here at All In. Whatever the besties are most interested in, we are going to bring you, the audience, along with us. So Freeberg and I have been obsessed with content creation and media. So we're doing a little media summit at All In. South by Southwest. Apologies that it's sold out. And then Chamath, you know, he likes this F1. He's a big F1 fan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I've never been. I'm really excited that we're going to be throwing the best party at F1 Saturday, May 4th.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You know what? I'll just go to 11, give me my bag, and I'll go play a tournament. I'll go to 11 and have a steak. It's a club. I'll pop some bottles at 11 while you guys are at F1. You can Photoshop me in. But the fans can come and our community can come. Allin.com slash events for all the details. And if you want to purchase. Big party on Saturday night. It's going to be fun.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Can I wear my Apple Watch? Can somebody loan me a nice watch for F1? I can't show up with an Apple Watch. Anybody got a... You're not allowed to wear an Apple Watch to F1. Okay. I'm going to put my Apple Watch in my drawer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I want a watch that costs $25,000 to $75,000.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Joe, if you got into this watch thing, what should I buy for 100 dimes?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, I mean, everything's collapsing. Shouldn't I be able to snipe something here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Somebody give me a suggestion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Anybody wants to sponsor me for watches and get a mention here on the show, I will grift the hell out of that. Jason at Calacanis.com for life. I just got a text from Swatch and Tudor. to wear actually in the 80s. I don't know. Freeburg definitely had a ton of those Casio watches, right? Did you have the Casio where you would do your... Tell us about your Casio watch. The G-Shock is a great watch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I'm talking about him with the calculator watch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Afreeberg, we can all bet on this. What calculator do you have on your desk right now? How many calculators are on your desk now? How many can you reach? How many Casio's are within reach?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah. You know what I was doing when you guys were on your calculator? I can't even imagine. I was in McKinley Park in Bay Ridge getting to second base. All right. Enough. All in dot com slash events. Did the guy consent?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
He was a really hot dude. Please. We have two genders, folks. There's an executive order. I read it. All right. All right. My Trump grade for the week. is C for chaos, A for effort with Doge. Let's try to get back to a B, President Trump. We'll see you all next time on the All In Pod. Love you, boys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
All right, everybody. We're suited up. We're suited up because the czar, the wolf of the White House is here, my brother. David Sachs, we were trying to get you on the program, you were going to make a drop in to talk about all this great crypto news coming out of the White House. And let's face it, this was a some people saying chaotic, some people say intense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This is a pretty amazing, intense week for the administration. So we'll get into a little bit of that. But you're here specifically to talk about the crypto reserve. So welcome back to your program, the all in podcast, David Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, I mean, I figured for people who weren't here for the pre-show, I get on. Sax is wearing a white shirt and a tie. I'm wearing a blazer and a white shirt. So I'm like, ah, I got to go put a tie on. He's like, ah, J. Kyle wore a blazer. I got to go get a blazer. So then we came back. And here we are.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Agree on that. I guess the one criticism that you're going to get when you go face the media, so I might as well put it here, is the order in which you're doing things. Sometimes Mr. Trump is very expressive on the social medias, which is better than, let's say, the previous administration, which just wasn't available and in cognitive decline.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, so you believe it's negotiation, because of the fentanyl issue. Chamath, let me go to you because many people are saying this has more to do with some great reset and maybe the 10 year. Do you think this is about fentanyl at the border or something else?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So I guess the question of he announces something and then you guys explain it deeper. Is that the optimal way to do this? Should we not worry about it? Should you come out with like more official stuff?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I guess that's the move fast, break things that we are used to in Silicon Valley, but that people, you know, whether it's in business or maybe a little concerned about that things are maybe different now in the White House and in how we're running our government. Maybe you can expand on that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
well, okay, so if we're going to place the blame on me. I wasn't the only one. The original crypto OGs were like, wait a second, why is he picking these three and not these three? You know, so that made a lot of people putting myself out of it like, whoa, what's going on here? Is he picking favorites? And that's, I guess, everybody's big concern. So maybe you could assuage that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
That's a great thing. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
It is a miracle it hasn't been compromised. I think we can all say that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So all the other digital assets- Yeah, explain the difference between these two. So there's a digital asset stockpile. That's the picker.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
and then on the other side there's a strategic reserve for bitcoin because we do acquire bitcoin we the united states of america when we seize from terrorists you know criminals etc we do seize these and then we often make the mistake of liquidating them when maybe we should be holding them yeah so it's right so we have the reserve we have the stockpile so the reserve is just bitcoin the goal is long-term preservation think of it as like a digital fort knox for digital gold we want to put
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And if digital assets emerge in some department, I don't know, the FBI sees this, the CIA sees this, I don't know which organization winds up having them, they're going to be legally required to report that and then put them in the reserve.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, which makes sense because there's a long tail of crypto. We might see something that we don't have the ability to predict the future, and we don't have the staff to sit there and look at these assets every day like a fund manager would and say, huh, what do we do with these? What percentage should it be of the overall stockpile, of the overall holdings?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So maybe the decision with Ethereum is, hey, this thing's waning. We just put it into Bitcoin because we know that's the more solid one. Yeah, that's what I'm reading into it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And he has to live and die with what he does. He has to make those decisions. And that's going to be, you know, part of how he's evaluated by the president. So hopefully he's going to be sharp about that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay, well, I had a very simple suggestion for this, which I'll float up the flagpole here and see what you think. You probably, we've talked about it on previous all-ins before you on it. How about a simple crypto tax? You know, crypto wants to be legal. You're the crypto czar. Crypto wants to be regulated. They want the rules. They want the rails. Simple suggestion from your bestie.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Why don't we charge every transaction in the United States 0.01%, just about one bit in that native currency. So you want to trade some Solana for Ethereum, for XRP, whatever, you know, put in whatever names you want there. The government says, hey, you want to have a great, vibrant system here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We're going to need to take just the most modest of taxes, de minimis, in fact, in the native crypto and put it in the stockpile. This seems to me like a very easy win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
This would be more like a sales tax that would be handled by Coinbase, would be handled by Robinhood, would be handled by those platforms. They would administer it. It would be a transactional tax, not an income tax. So if you have a bunch, it's not a wealth tax and a seizing tax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay. Well, I'll be in the commissary later having lunch with you. You can introduce me. So let me just give you a fastball here. Well, we'll see if it gets in the strike zone. The appearance of impropriety is what people are concerned with. The picking of winners and losers is President Trump was the crypto president. He went and he gave that famous speech. I'm going to get rid of Gary Gensler.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We're going to make it legal. And to his credit, he has fulfilled that promise, which means, hey, the donor class on that side said, we're going to back the crypto president, not the anti-crypto team, which means a lot of people who are on the Twitter and the socials have donated a lot, they have a lot of holdings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So this appearance, which you've now, I would give you credit, have cleaned up here. Hey, there's two different things going on here and we're not using taxpayer money. We get all that. But the appearance here is, hey, maybe somebody is going to benefit. Of course, they came after you first for that without the facts. You were very clear. You cleared all your positions. You sold everything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You divested. So let's make that clear to the dum-dums who are just trying to say that you are personally benefiting from that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, please, because this is ridiculous. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, I would say so.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And Kraft is the venture firm that you funded that's done a lot of great work supporting founders here in Silicon Valley.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Why let the facts get in the way of a good slander? Seriously. You know, full disclosure, you know, you when you saw me doing the Sequoia Scouts program said, hey, why don't you do a fund? I'll be the anchor. I'll be your first LP. I mean, one of the most generous things you've done in our relationship.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And I had to have a call with you, you know, weeks ago and say, Hey, okay, you're going to divest. Okay, fine. No problem. No, it's not not a problem for me. You sell the assets to somebody else. So the way people understand how this mechanically works, when you're in a fund, you have no sacks cannot tell me what to do in the fund. He just put money in it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Like I put money in other people's funds, they go and invest and 10 years later, you get a return. And hopefully that return in a venture firm or private equity firm beats the markets, public markets or whatever. But then you can also sell that interest to somebody else. So mechanically, and this takes time. And you have to sell it at 50%, 25% off. And it's painful.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You will lose, I estimate, you're going to lose, you know, I don't want to be gratuitous here, but eight, nine figures by serving the country for a couple of years. And not only that, the great irony of this is the one thing holding back the industry is regulation, over-regulation of AI and no clear regulation in crypto.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
You're going in to fix the two things that were number one and two on all of our agendas in Silicon Valley in terms of getting returns the next four years. So the sacrifice you're making is extraordinary. And you're making it a better environment, a regulated environment for the rest of us to do commerce. So I just want to point out that you're losing like double here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
For your service. And I don't know how much they're paying you for this job. What do you get paid? Like 50 grand, 100 grand?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Really? Is that actually accurate?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We have one or two that pivoted into crypto, yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Listen, this is the nature of the politics we have. People are, you know, it gets very personal. You know that better than anybody. And so, you know, that's why you're here. And hopefully we can clean this all up and let people know that, hey, the intent here is good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Well, and we already have a regulated market as an analogy. And when you tell a lie and you sell a share in a company, whether it's a private or a public company, the SEC has a term for that. It's called securities fraud. And we have this new type of device. It's very innovative. It could be an NFT. It could be a trading card.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
It could be an actual utility token where you burn it in use of a service. Or it could be anything. It could be whatever the person describes it as. But what's important is there's an entity- with a group of people, I think you would agree, who have said, we have ownership of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We're incorporated here in the United States, not in Panama, not in the BVI, not in some other place where maybe they're a little faster or looser with regulations. You got to be here in the US. Maybe you have to be insured in some way. Maybe there has to be a board like there does in Delaware or in an LLC. There has to be some person where the buck stops.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
He is, if you can imagine, further right than Keith Reboy and Sachs. They tell him to pump the brakes. Welcome back to the program, Joe Lonsdale. How you doing, brother?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And if you lie while committing a transaction or taking money for an asset, it would be securities fraud. And yes, people will come down on you like a ton of bricks. And if you promote things and you don't disclose it, well, we have rules about that as well. We saw many celebrities get pinched last time for tweeting about cryptocurrencies. And this is the stuff that I think has to stop.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I think it should feel more like what we do in angel investing in the private companies and in public companies. So that's your job. When are we going to see that framework emerge? Because here, you're only like 40, 50 days into this, I think. When will we see the actual bones of a framework?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So if I want to do J coin and I want to make an angel investing coin, or I want to do something fun, an NFT collection for all in or something, when will we have the actual rules of the road? And that's going to be multiple agencies, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yeah, then we start getting into the Howey test and people can go look that up if they want. What I will say is there's an educational process that has to come in here, which we've gone through as the United States. When people would buy interest in mines, people would buy interest in gold claims, oil fields. And that's when a lot of these regulations came out in the 20s. around accreditation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
We've spoken about this before, it's a pet peeve of mine. But I think there should be an educational framework here. And I think there should also be some nuance that you could work on specifically, with this group of Being clear that when you have a ticker symbol associated with something, or you do charts associated with something, it starts to smell like a duck. It looks like a duck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
It's quacking like a duck. But then in the terms of services, it says, hey, this is a collectible. I think there needs to be some ground rules, which maybe it says, hey, these need to be presented in a certain way at the top level. So the nuance of disclosure is so important. When I tweet something,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
if it was an advertiser, or a sponsor of all in or this week in startups, or any influencer, or you did that, would you do this? And you said, I love, you know, this brand, you and I both were well, you were an investor in eight sleep. I am If we were to tweet about that, as investors, we don't have to disclose.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
But if we were paid for that, the FTC has rules you have to put this is a paid partnership, you cannot confuse consumers. And I think that's where you're going to have to do a little bit of cleanup work and structure as well as the disclosure and how this appears. And then also, maybe the educational system.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So you know, if you want to own a firearm, if you want to drive a car, if you want to be, you know, a beautician, and listen, we can talk about overregulation, you got to take tests.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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man, it would just be so much better if consumers could take, you know, like a 50 question test, just to say, hey, they understand what we're talking about here in terms of diversification, so they don't YOLO their entire mortgage and house into one crypto.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
So what are your thoughts on those two issues, disclosures, how it's presented, and then accreditation and maybe a path to accreditation, sophisticated investor test is how I refer to it for all Americans, because 90% of people can't participate in private companies. Your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And easily done with the technology lauded by the crypto community, the blockchain. This could just be on the blockchain. This was always the problem we had as venture capitalists with, hey, this is a token project. Who owns the tokens? Where are they? When can I sell?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The insiders, yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
What's the new SEC chief? I was doing some research on him. He's really pro, actually, more Americans being able to invest in privates, private equity, etc. And he's given speeches on it in the past.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I've had her on This Week in Startups a couple of times.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Sacks, you got to go. Really proud of the work here. Congratulations on cleaning this all up and presenting a really thoughtful plan that we can all ask you hard questions on. Appreciate you taking the hard questions here on the All In podcast. And good luck when you do the rest of the media circus. I wonder if I'm going to be the hardest questioner of you. I hope so.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And for people asking, yes, I'm wearing a suit because I am now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
joining the administration big announcement i'm the official podcaster the official moderator of the uh trump white house i'm just kidding people will actually believe you all right man listen all right love you brother we'll see you soon cheers all right bye all right everybody i'm obviously super conflicted sax is my friend of 20 years plus we're partners here on the online podcast and of course i'm rooting for the administration but
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
I got that journalist blood in me, I always want to call balls and strikes, I'm gonna, as you just heard, ask hard questions. So if you're wondering where I'm coming from, I'm going to ask hard questions to my friends, because they're doing important work for the American people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
And for the rest of the people on the planet, candidly, these are important decisions that Sachs is going to have to make about crypto AI that Elon's making with Doge. I'm going to ask hard questions. That's the way it's going to be. And so I'm really excited that they're coming on here. They're going to take the hard questions for me, but they're done in a certain spirit, which is
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Yes, they're my friends, but they got important jobs. So they do have to ask, answer the hard questions for the American people. And I'm also curious, and we're all curious where they're coming from. So I feel so privileged that they're choosing to come on All In to face those hard questions. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
No. Finance related? No, no, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Okay. So, Freiburg, we got one person with fentanyl at the border negotiating. We got one person on trade. Some portion of this I hear, and when I asked in these four group chats, I got, he's throwing stuff at the wall, the border. He's trolling the 10-year note, and he doesn't care about stocks. And then I got onshoring and manufacturing as a possibility.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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We're going to make it more expensive to bring things in. So why don't you consider making stuff here? Do you think that third possibility is what's going on here? Does David Freeberg pick one of these three choices or another? What's going on here with tariffs specifically?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
Ah, yes. I see you right over the hill on the ranch. Our ranches are within 20 minutes of each other. Joe Lonsdale and I are shooting guns at our ranches.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Tariffs, Trump's Economic Endgame, Market Chaos, Bitcoin Reserve, CoreWeave IPO
It's more like a compound.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
And also, they could be contributing to right, they could be paying taxes into the system. So I guess there's both of those possibilities. And both of those have fingerprints to mop. So yeah, good question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Murder also with us from the White House. Yeah, welcome to all in where we have a live feed into the White House today. My good friend Antonio Gracias is here. He is taking, I guess you're taking, would it be safe to say a hiatus or you're from Valor to do a little tour of duty in our government working on Doge? Is that the way to say it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
So we need a stacked bar chart. So there's some fun with numbers going on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
I mean, to say you're a Democrat is an understatement. You were a Democrat is an understatement. You were a major donor and a majorly involved with the Democratic Party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Ben, you tend to call balls and strikes on the program. What are your thoughts on... immigration generally and how it should work here in the U.S. and how maybe we can resolve this and get to, and Antonio, I want your answer to that question as well, maybe some reconciliation here between the moderates, MAGA, original, you know, classic GOP, Democrats, and the woke lunatics.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Like, is there any way out of this? And maybe perhaps what we're seeing here with somebody like Antonio, who is a lifelong Democrat who now is, you know, helping the government, maybe there's some way with data
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
So should we are you in the camp? We should deport everybody. This sort of Stephen Miller deport 20 million people, Ben, or are you in the hey, let's get rid of the criminals. And, you know, that will get us to where we need to be.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Okay. They said it over and over again. All 20 million are going and it's like, it's just marketing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Antonio, let's talk maybe about reconciliation here. You spent your life as a Democrat and now you've spent, I don't know, six months as a Republican here and helping this administration. How do we get the country to sort of get back together here and maybe reconcile on this issue? Because
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
It seems like an unnecessary, to Ben's point, I think the number is 80% of people believe the border should be just shut, period, full stop, and everything should be legal. And I don't know the other 20 if they're just don't know how to take a survey. I have never met anybody who said there should be an open border at the southern border. So what are your thoughts on giving your inside knowledge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
And I would describe you as a Clinton Democrat, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, correct me if I'm wrong there. What are your thoughts on reconciliation here? Because you really do care about that. Your parents, both immigrants, my besties here, three of the four people who host this program, immigrants, this is an immigrant country built by immigrants for immigrants has always been.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
So how do we reconcile this issue and put it behind us?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
40% correct. Close enough.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Close enough. I'm sure they had no agenda.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
So this is a human suffering, a human rights tragedy. You have people who are getting sold into slavery and being abused at the border. At a minimum, every American should be against that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
It's good to see you. Thank you. Suit looks great, by the way. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
When do you have to return it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
That is crazy. Yeah, and we're down to like... Ben, you know, the number is 15 states now are the ones that don't have voter ID. So this is becoming like a very obvious issue and a loophole for us to close. I think the best next thing for you to do is actually publish this list of people who voted, get it to the Heritage Foundation and put sunlight on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
The truth shall make you free and sunlight is the best disinfectant because I think the whole issue is absurd. Because if you look at the votes in the swing states, it would take 100,000, it would take tens of thousands, and it's illegal. I've spoken to the person at the Heritage Foundation who does this. They found like 2400 cases over 40 or 50 years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
The number of people voting illegally is minuscule. In order to swing even but one state, you would need a court. Can I say something? Hold on, let me finish. You would need a coordinated effort. I'm just giving you data, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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There are tens of thousands of votes that would need to be manipulated in each of these markets.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Well, listen, we all want the data clean. Ben, maybe I'll let you kind of answer the question from your perspective. Do you think there is any chance that a swing state could be swung by this strategy? And in addition to that, Trump is a populist. All these people and his biggest gains were with people from South America, Mexicans, et cetera, in this last election. So a non college educated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So if you were going to plot this incredible strategy, it seems like the Democratic strategy of importing a bunch of voters is the stupidest possible strategy because the Republican Party has won those people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And what is the mandate as given to you, you know, as part of Doge?
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And just use them as an example of a great partner.
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They were on CNBC and they said, we're totally willing to go to zero. And then the anchors correctly on CNBC were like, well, then why haven't you done that already? To Ben's point, Israel did do that. But I think your theory, Ben, is absolutely correct. If you make this analogy to what he did with overturning Roe v. Wade, it is the same exact thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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He told us over and over again, I'm going to put two, maybe three people on the Supreme Court. I'm going to overturn it. And then afterwards, he kind of wiped his hands through it and was like, listen, it's up to you guys. I had nothing to do with it. He will tell you what he's going to do. He told you he was going to do these tariffs. He's done them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And I do think there's something embedded in what you said, Ben, which is I think he likes everybody to come to Mar-a-Lago or to come to the White House. And he loves doing deals. He's addicted to it. He wrote a book, The Art of the Deal. He loves people coming to him, hanging out. And Chamath, maybe you could give us your perspective. Crazy man, very crazy grandpa.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Or this is a negotiating tactic. Everybody has to come through him. Or... Lutnick believes it. As he said very clearly, I'm going to add a trillion dollars in taxes here. What do you think is going on here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Because if when I went through all the top people on the internet, all our group of friends who are deeply in finance, I can't find anybody deeply in finance who's not in the administration who thinks this is well executed or a good idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, so let's get to it. You spoke at a rally. I think it was on Sunday, right? and you pulled up a chart. Here is that chart. Maybe you could explain to the American people here what this chart shows.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
And let me just explain. Polymarket put a betting market suggested by Chamath Palihapitiya. They are partners of ours. Magnificent 7 shrinks below 30% of S&P 500 in 2025. This was free money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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If we cut rates, if the Fed cuts rates, that's all predicated on them. No, no, no. This doesn't matter anymore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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What I'm referring to, Chamath, is you said yesterday, Jerome Powell, you're on the clock. So maybe you could explain what you meant by that. Okay, so that's a different part of the curve. I understand it's a different thing, but I'm just trying to put these two things together because those are the two things we're saying this action took or this will enable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, Chamath, give us an example here. And I'm trying to get you to paint the entire picture here because the tariff cudgel is not making sense to a lot of folks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
All right, Ben, let me get you involved here. I'm going to play a quick clip from Rand Paul, and I want to get your feedback on executive power. And then on tariffs themselves. And if it's a good idea or a bad idea, play the clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Ben, your thoughts on the two issues. Is trade good for consumers? This is what, you know, I think is on top of everybody's mind. The whole Trump presidency and he won. in large part due to inflation and Biden economics and that he was going to reduce inflation. And I think a lot of people believe inflation is about to come roaring back. Your thoughts on the two issues?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And so what that's showing is social security numbers that were issued to non-American citizens or non-citizens. Am I correct that that's the number we're looking at? So these are non-citizens getting security numbers. And for people who don't know, just like a little bit of background on the social security system. We do this. This is not abnormal for us to give social security numbers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, as our population ages and the population grows. Freiburg, putting aside executive power and the midterms, which, yeah, that would change everything. What are your thoughts on just inflation and tariffs and the chance that this comes back and explodes in the administration's lap?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I have it chewed up. I actually edited it. Let's do that. Let's play this clip and get your reaction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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This is part of the process that the government does. The social security number was created in 1936 for citizens to track their earnings. And in the 90s, we started giving them to non-citizens who were authorized to work in the U.S. so that We could collect taxes from them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Give an example, David. Yeah.
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And so if you are not a citizen and you're a green card holder, which some people in this program, I think, have been, you have to have a Social Security number in order to work. And you pay into Social Security and Medicare just like you as citizens. And then eventually, I think you would qualify for those over some period of time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, I mean, they did that internally for some period of time, then they started to respect it internally, but they've never done a great point by shipping Disney films overseas. That's right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So that's a big- They have the ability to swing back at us. Chamath, do you want to wrap us up here? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Ben, what should be... Let's talk about onshoring and bringing these jobs, bringing these factories back to America. It seems to me a bit crazy that we're going to make fast fashion and people's Coachella wear and their... anchor, you know, USB C cables here, pharmaceuticals, sure, we need that for strategic purposes, we obviously need the military and chips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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But outside of that, is there some rationale here when we have the lowest unemployment of our lifetime, and everybody wants to come here, you know, to immigrate to this country, to doing these tariffs and trying to create jobs here that we don't necessarily need, we have too much employment right now. in the market and not enough bodies to fill all the open job recs. What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Okay. So we have social security numbers being given to non-citizens. That is not controversial, but there's something controversial about this chart. Antonio, tell us what that is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
A magnitude safer, yeah.
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This is during the COVID period. Yep.
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I mean, you have lower input costs, which means life better for citizens. And citizens like cheap things. They like cheap oil in their cars and they like cheap cars.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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These were specifically designed, Ben, to be a diversification strategy. Japan was paying their companies to build factories outside of China.
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And Apple was doing India, Vietnam to build AirPods and laptops and even the iPhone being made outside of China. That diversification strategy is wiped out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Good old Sri Lanka, 88%. Amazing Sri Lankan, but Sri Lanka, very tough on us. I was like, sir, I'm American. Go ahead, Ben, you can do yours. You can do your dueling about Sri Lanka.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world with me again today, Chamath Palihapitiya, your chairman dictator, David Freiberg, our sultan of science, and two guests, obviously, Ben Shapiro, very famous for having the number two podcast in the world. How are you, Ben? I'm doing great and just honored to be here, you know. Yes, more work to do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Okay, and that's the reason why Ben Shapiro's podcast number two to all in now because of the Ben Shapiro Trump impersonation. Ben Shapiro, great American. Have you been to the White House? I have actually, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Have you been invited in this? Or are you still anti-Trump or a never-Trumper? He was a nasty never-Trumper now. He's pro-Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah. It's a nature state. This is where I started to, yeah, this. Come on now.
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You've got a great tuxedo. At least you showed up in a tux. Okay? Good stuff.
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She's gonna be kidnapped. Brianna Hall.
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I mean, I think this is what the stable coins, I think, is set up to counter. People are now saying, hey, we're going to have there's two stable coin acts that are going around here, one of them. doesn't require like know your customer anti money laundering terrorism stuff, which is, you know, tethers, according to many reports, bread and butter.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And then the other one is to domesticate all this business, give it to circle, give it to stripe, give it to American companies and force them to buy a certain percentage of treasuries, and allow them to give interest, which the stablecoin bills are now debating if they should give that. So I don't know if you guys are watching that. But that would be
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Have you figured that out yet? Is it because of like a COVID overhang? The one criticism I did see of the chart that I wanted to bring up with you is, hey, people want to see the 10 years, 20 years before this. What would we see if we were to look backwards a little bit? And do you have some theories? And is the COVID overhang theory valid? Or is this just...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Biden opened the border as we saw, you know, especially like in maybe it was that third year of his term, the 2023 year, and this is the overhang of the 2023 surge. What are your theories?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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la
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etc. Like what is the plan here? Is it universal health care? Is it lowering their taxes? I mean, the administration says no taxes for people under 150k. We have to give something to the working man and woman of this country, the people who feel that they can't get rich, who can't get to the middle class.
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We have so many job openings. We have the lowest unemployment of our lifetime. As you said, consumers today can get and live an incredible lifestyle that the rich didn't have in 1980. The car you can buy today can drive itself for 20, 30, 40K. You can buy a used Tesla and have this car that's better than any car made in the last 50 years. So you got to keep it positive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Then think about generation tool belt. You've got all these plumbing jobs, electrician jobs, construction jobs that pay massively hourly wages that are available for people today. We have too many job openings today. And you never hear Trump say that. To your point, it's always this like, everything's a disaster and I'll save you when in fact you don't need saving. Go ahead, Freeburn.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I think the average plumber's age is 50-something. We can't get people to become plumbers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, we need to get better at this stuff. I mean, the good news is we're going to have robots to do this. Ben, you know, if I run for president, I'm one of the few people here on the pod who can. My position is going to be build three new cities with 5 million homes in each because, you know, starter homes, families can't buy starter homes. You ever consider running for office?
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And if you did, what would be your platform?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Guys, we got breaking news here. It turns out more reciprocal tariffs have dropped. Look at this. Complaining about the docket. J-Cal has put a 500% reciprocal tariff on that. Tariff on that. Purchasing dogs from a breeder is now 100% tariff. Friedberg, that's pretty stiff. And Chamath has put one on Laura Piana slippers. Yeah, too many people have them. 200% tariff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
And, oh, looks like Ben Shapiro got in on it. Having Candace Owens on your podcast is now at 200%. Ben, what are you doing here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Unkind.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Palmer Lucky has put a thousand... This is the biggest one that just dropped. Thousand percent tariff. I'm working with Jacob. Four. Chamath Palihapitiya, your chairman dictator. Wait, I have to... Do you want to hear about this? Oh, would you like to do a little memory lane? We got so much show here. I'm trying to get this out, but okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Negative 5%? Yeah. That's brutal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Oh, make your bets with our partner, Polymarket. Chamath, do you want to do victory lap? We're going to wrap here. What do you want to do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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But if you did put it on, does that mean you're taking us all to Italy this summer? No. What's happening here? Are you getting a boat for us to record from the all-in yacht?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Well, you know, let's keep our eye on the markets. And as of the taping here, we're down about 5% across the boards. Ben, you're excellent. You should come back. Yeah, well done, Ben. You fit right in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Are you kidding me? Ben's got a table at 11. It's got his name on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Thanks, guys. That was a blast. Wait, J. Cal, take us out. Take us out. This is my favorite with Ben. Ben's like, and you know, there are security issues in Ukraine, and you have security issues as well. That's why you should use Lifeline. Man, you are the master of the fucking segue. I have never, I thought I was good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE updates + Liberation Day Tariff Reactions with Ben Shapiro and Antonio Gracias
Ben Shapiro is like, and of course, we have the tariffs, and that's going down. But you know what won't go down? If you buy gold, buy your gold bullion at goldbullion.org. You are fucking great at this. Is it true 100 million in revenue for Daily Wire? Is that true, non-figures?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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What's going on? I saw some headline, you're going bankrupt. How can you go bankrupt with 220 million?
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you're making 50 times the revenue of Truth Social.
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39 million in quarterly revenue. So they're at $150, $160 million a year. And their valuation right now, I don't have the market cap here, but what did it peak out at? $3 or $4 billion or something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So it's something weird going on there. Okay. All right. Well, the All In and Daily Wire merger and IPO coming soon. The ticker symbol is All In. Daily In Wire. All in Daily In Wire. The merger is complete. And we'll see you all next time. Love you, boys. On the All In Podcast. Love you, guys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And one of the things- These would be IDs, Antonio, from their home country. This would be a Venezuelan driver's license or something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So they just hit enter on that part of the form.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Do we take biometrics of people at the border? Do we take like an iris scan, fingerprints, and all that stuff?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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You could exceed all in in the rankings. No, we always judge ourselves, Ben, on three things. In the rankings, when we look at how we're doing, what we see is Ben Shapiro, prayer from the Bible, okay? The New Testament, I don't think you've got it yet. You have the Old Testament, but you haven't gotten the new, you haven't gotten the sequel. And then number three is,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So thousands of those people registered to vote.
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In the election.
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Well, yeah. I mean, the interesting thing is like the Heritage Foundation has a very good project. You know, it's obviously right-leaning where they're studying all cases of fraud. I looked at it before we're here. There's only been 24 cases since 2003 of fraud. somebody who's a non-citizen trying to vote. Now those are people caught.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So this would be incredibly dramatic if it was even a thousand people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Welcome back to the All In Podcast, everybody. I'm your host, Jason Calacanis. I'll put in a bunch of plugs for the projects I'm working on throughout the show to annoy my co-hosts and continue the grift, but it is 2025 and we are doing our bestie awards. It's going to be amazing today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
We're going to do a really great prediction show today. And we're going to do some super predictions this year. Each bestie gets to make a super prediction or two during the show. And we're going to take those super predictions, Shamath, and we're going to put them on Polymarket. Yes, that's right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
All right, let's do our 2025 predictions for biggest business winner. Freeberg, why don't you start us off? Biggest business winner for 2025, what's your prediction?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It's such a great, strong choice for the biggest winner. And I think the quote you're looking for is, how did you go bankrupt? Slowly and then all at once. That's how these technology changes. And man, I would love to have one of these for the ranch to just run around and do the perimeter security.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
If you don't know Polymarket, it's a prediction market where people can place a wager, a bet, an investment in one or the other side. Is my image good?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yeah. And it could learn from an LLM too, right? Like a large language model could teach it how to do something. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I mean, $16,000 was the cost of a used Prius. Let's be honest, that's in spitting distance of being affordable for the middle class.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I knew you would do it. Oh, come on. I was going to say maybe we could get a poker dealer. Maybe Bo, you know. I wonder if this thing could deal cards or open wine.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, that's because we're so threatened by it. We want to make sure that we're at the top of the species here and it doesn't feel like it's going to be for much longer. I mean, these things will kick our ass pretty soon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
That's my prediction. Year of the robots is your prediction. I love it. Gavin, what do you got?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It's a little blurry. That's the avalanche coming. And so I guess, is that the MAGA avalanche? What is this avalanche? Is that people streaming across the border? What's the metaphor here, Trump? Is that the huge orgasm that you're about to lay down in 2025, rocking the-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay, so you're also long Nvidia and Chipmakers, Grok, et cetera, because we're finding new uses for all that compute.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay, very good. Chamath, do you have a prediction for your biggest business winner of 2025, sir?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Great choice. Should they be regulated, Chamath? We saw at some of these congressional hearings, Tether was kind of dragged for being the primary transfer and monetary tool for terrorism, for getting around sanctions and for human trafficking. Should it be regulated and how?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
All right. We did an amazing partnership with Polymarket. Freeberg, you want to detail the partnership in some way? I think you helped work on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
We've got so much to do today with us again for the second time, a truly amazing bestie, Gavin Baker from Atreides Capital. Am I correct? Is it Atreides Capital?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Gavin, let me ask you a hard question there as well. Should the United States government give up the... Let's face it, they have a bit of a stranglehold. They've got a bit of a monopoly on US dollars. These things are a competitor. And we were sitting here on this program for the last couple of years talking about the BRICS and them starting their own currency.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Aren't these in some ways similar to that? And they would take people off the USD standard. How do you look at that? Because that is the criticism that some people in power have put forward.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freeberg, you have any thoughts on it? We've been talking about currency here a whole bunch over the last couple of years. Any thoughts on stable coins and just the monopoly we have on it?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, that'll be one of our big topics for the year, and we should definitely invite Jeremy Allaire from USD on, or USDC.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And so you're paying 10% to Substack and the 3%, yeah. If it's obvious for me, it's obvious for everybody else. All right, my biggest business winner prediction for 2025 is Tesla and Google. I think this is going to be the year of AI and robotics, obviously. But I am just absolutely amazed at the comeback that Google has made with AI and I'm absolutely in awe of what Elon did with Colossus.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
If those of you don't know, Jensen Wang, Michael Dell, they all obviously participated in building out XAI and they were shocked. They couldn't believe that they stood up 100,000 GPUs in under 45 days, was it Gavin? something in that neighborhood. It was a tremendous effort.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, Elon, Tesla, XAI, and Google, that cohort who are investing heavily in AI, those two specifically, those two, three names, I think are gonna be the biggest winners next year. They're gonna come out with some things that people didn't anticipate.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I don't think people are anticipating what Google's gonna come out with because Gemini, deep research, I keep telling people this and I'm using the app, is so impressive. Drop what you're doing right now, pause the podcast, download Gemini, and just start playing with deep research on your desktop. Pay the 20 bucks for it. It is mind-blowing.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It blows anything else in the market out of the water, period, full stop. It is a step function higher. All right, I'll just leave it at that.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay, so what it does is- Good call, good call. Yeah. If you wanted to create a model, let's say, and I did this, where I said, hey, make me a model based upon what it would take to replace all the cars and trips in the United States with full self-driving cars. What would that cost to do? And if you ask that to ChatGPT or Grok or Claude, it's gonna give you a decent answer.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What deep research does is it goes and it figures out what the sub-components of each of those questions would be, and then it fires off multiple threads, and then it searches the web in real time. which Google is extremely good at.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And then it summarizes it, gives citations, and it produces a report that looks like something that Gartner Group, McKinsey, Boston Consulting Group would have spent, I don't know, 30 days on Gavin and a million dollars, a half million dollars. It's bonkers how good this is. But the amount of compute it takes is extraordinary.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
That's why ChatGPT released something similar that's 200 bucks a month, the O1 Pro, I think they call it. And then this one is like 20 bucks from Gemini. Anyway, given what Google has access to, YouTube, your G Drive, your Google Docs, et cetera, your Gmail, it's gonna do things that you wouldn't anticipate.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Like if you were asking this question, it might look in your Gmail for possibilities to answer those questions or YouTube videos of channels you subscribe to. So this is going to, I think, knock people's socks off and solve problems that people didn't know they had. Is that a pretty good explanation, Gavin?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
For last year, our predictions for business winner, Chamath said bootstrapped and or profitable startups. I think that's a really great pick and that came to pass. We're seeing some of those go public and raise money at higher valuations or not go out of business. Freeberg, you said commodities businesses. I'm not sure how that did. Do you know? Did you check on that?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I said training data owners like Reddit, New York Times, Google, etc. Reddit stock up 224% in 2024, and they launched their own Reddit answer. That was a good call. Yeah, I think I got that one. New York Times stock is up as well, and they fired off that lawsuit with OpenAI. All right, now we're going to move on to the 2025 biggest business loser predictions. In 2024, Chamath said...
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Awesome. Fantastic. And so we just got, we're all wrapping up our ski trip here. Nick, I understand there was some footage, some found footage from the Besties skiing. Is that true? Oh, here we go. Look at this. Here I come down the mountain. Gavin, I want you to rate everybody skiing. Here I come.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Pro sports teams because they hit peak valuations. That's looking like a pretty good prediction. Freerberg, you said vertical SaaS companies because of AI disruption. That's another one that seems like a great prediction. I said smartphone manufacturers. Apple stock was up 30% in 2024, but I think we've all seen that these smartphones aren't advancing and people are taking their times.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
The sales of those are down, services are up.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
So I just wanted to- On behalf of Phil Hummuth and I, we appreciate you made that vanity investment for the number of times we got to sit in your court side seats. Yeah, because I never went to the games. I never went to the games. I should have gone to more games. I went to your games and almost got thrown out of your seats. I got a red card one time. It's true.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
There comes Chamath looking good. And then here comes somebody. I think the technical term Joe Lonsdale does for that third person is a beep beep. OK, here we go. And look at this technique coming down. Look at Chamath. Chamath, you really advanced this last season. Look at him cutting those S-turns, Gavin. What do you think? Listen to me.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I was getting into it with Bogut and with David Lee.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I told Steve Kerr, listen, you're up 30 on my Knicks. Sit these guys down. This is Bush League. What if Steph Curry gets hurt out there? And Bogut told me to shut up on Andre Iguodala.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It was the funniest thing ever, David. This is what happens when you get- Bogut's one of our friends.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
But they come over, Friedberg, and they tap you on the shoulder. I'm with my wife. She's mortified. And the guy hands you a card. And the card says, you've been warned one time and one time only about abusive behavior. If we have to warn you one more time, you will be escorted out. So I look at the guy and I say, but, and he goes, read the card. I read the card. I say-
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
He goes, give me a thumbs up. That was it.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
That was it. You're not supposed to. Then three years later, I'm sitting in the same seats. I'm interacting with Draymond during the finals games and everybody's hokey dokey with it.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And the new deal is an 11-year deal for the NBA. So these things don't come up that often, but we'll see over time. Maybe somebody will buy one of these media companies and inherit them. Okay. Biggest business loser for 2025. What's your prediction, Gavin Baker?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Good choice. Yes, obviously in the age of Doge, they might not be spending wildly and they might actually look at the bill. They might check the bill.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yeah, crazy thought to actually check the bill. You never know. Chamath, who do you predict will be the biggest business loser of 2025?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yeah, an absolute dollar. It's a lot. Okay, Freeberg, who do you predict? You predict MAG-7, government service providers for you, Gavin. Freeberg, who do you predict will be the biggest business loser of 2025?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
So the cost plus are going to suffer is what you're saying. And the Andrals will thrive.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
The efficiency that they'll gain will also be felt by their customers and their customers might not hire them.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I am absolutely amazed at the progress you're making. Freebird, I'm amazed you made it onto the mountain. You were out there a number of days. You're getting it done.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
The alignments, you know, you show me an incentive, I'll show you the outcome. The alignment of cost plus is to just keep being inefficient and waste. And these defense contractors are taking 60, 70, 80% off the price of each piece of munitions or vehicle.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
For my biggest business loser prediction, I had to go through a lot of the people I've criticized. I didn't start fights with over the past year. Commercial real estate came to mind because these leases are going to keep coming up. And I think like they kicked the can down the road a little bit. So I started there.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Then I looked at micro strategies and that made no sense to me that they were trading at two, three, four times the book value of their Bitcoin. And I think that's not sustainable. I looked at Truth Social, which is like doing four or $5 million in revenue and is valued at 7 billion. That makes absolute no logical sense.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
But I think the one that is the most overpriced of all of this, and I think is going to see Their peak valuation is OpenAI. I think the headwinds for OpenAI are being absolutely underappreciated. Like I said before, in my previous prediction, Google is kicking ass. XAI is just getting started and building out so much big iron. Microsoft was basically on another podcast
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
almost like laughing at OpenAI for selling them the source code and that they didn't even need OpenAI anymore because they had it all. They don't need them and they own all the big iron. I think OpenAI's valuation made no sense. I don't think they're going to be able to keep charging the prices they're charging. And I think AWS, Apple, Google, XAI, this cohort are going to really
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
take that $157 billion valuation and make it the peak valuation of the company. And I do think that there is a non-zero chance they could lose their process in these court cases of transferring $157 billion in value from a nonprofit into a for-profit. I think that whole thing could blow up
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I think that that's a small piece of it, but that's a really interesting super prediction. Insert polymarket graphic error. Super prediction. Will OpenAI convert? Is that a good one?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
You skied four days. Okay. I finished my 16th day yesterday, but I took today off just to get prepared here. Yeah. I got 16 days. I do the executive program. Gavin, I go out for an hour and a half to three hours. Zip, zip, zip, 10 runs and I'm done.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
That's why I'm picking it because I think it's easy to pick a meme stock. It's harder to pick a real company. But I do think that that revenue, which a lot of it is consumer and a lot of it is developers, the developers I know all want to do open source. They don't want to have to be beholden to OpenAI and Sam Altman.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
They would much rather, and they're already setting their queries across multiple different stacks and trying different ones. I don't think there's any loyalty to OpenAI or Gemini or any of these services. I think they'll just go with eventually open source in many cases. So anyway, that's my thought on OpenAI. 2025, biggest business deal. What do you got, Shamath?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Oh, Atreides Management. Okay. Just call it House Atreides. Oh, nope. Let's not get him in trouble. I pay. Gavin, welcome back to the program. Let us know, just briefly, what does Atreides do?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What's your biggest business deal for 2025 prediction, Shamath? What do you got? You said Starlink to go public last year.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And for people who don't know, Honda and Nissan signed an agreement to merge and Mitsubishi is involved because they're part of, I think, Nissan's alliance. This would obviously get rid of all of the redundancy.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Gavin, you got a spread trade? Are you short these names?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay, well done. Freeberg, last year, you said there'd be some blockbuster deals for rights holders, licensing data for AI training, and Reddit did in fact sign two of those. So a great prediction from you for last year on biggest business deal. What do you got this year? See if you can go two for two.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Gavin, how would you compare yourself to what you just witnessed in that video? Your skiing ability, where would you rank yourself? Clearly, it's me, Chamath, Freeberg in that ranking. Where would you live in the ranking?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Kevin, what do you think should be the biggest business deal in 2025?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
So the full stack wins. Great prediction for me. Last year, my prediction was that ByteDance would go public or TikTok would get divested or some version of this. We are but 18 days away from figuring out if the Supreme Court will do just that. My prediction for this year, I was looking at all the media companies, gentlemen. There were so many possibilities there.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Warner Brothers, we talked about Apple and Disney, you know, a couple of years ago. But I think the age of autonomy is here. And I think there is going to be some partnerships that will happen between Amazon, DoorDash, Uber, Tesla, Waymo, and that cohort. And I would not be surprised to see Tesla could buy Uber right now for but 10% of its market cap.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And Waymo could spin out and partner with Uber. Amazon could buy DoorDash fairly easily. And with the wrath of Khan being over, the wrath of Lena Khan being over, Gavin. it is possible that mega deals like these could go through. And if a couple of mega deals go through like this, whoever teams up here could win autonomy, delivery, food delivery, and e-commerce. This is a ginormous space.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And I think, listen, I haven't spoken to obviously my friend about it, but Tesla buying DoorDash and Uber or Amazon buying DoorDash and Uber could be the greatest service ever created if you wanted to build a super app.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, and Amazon in, I believe it's Texas, is actually doing these now. They've got 60,000 SKUs, is my understanding, already being delivered, and they just drop it in your backyard, and it's there in 45 minutes.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, then we'll be going out with you next year, new bestie. All right. We got to get to it. We're going to start off with politics, gentlemen. We got to keep this moving because there's so many predictions. We're going to do our 2025 prediction for biggest political winner. Now, last year, well, yeah, I think we got it kind of wrong. Friedberg, you said independent third party in the U.S.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Most people say it's slow right now and monotonous and they don't like it, but... Because it does take weird routes, but that'll be fixed over time, obviously. Totally. And just in case anybody thinks I'm talking my book here, I have exposure to almost all these companies in a significant way because I believe in the entire space. 1.5% of rides in the U.S.,
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
and globally it's less than 1% are done by ride sharing. The TAM is gonna go to 20% in a very short period of time. And it's going to be across the board. There's gonna be a lot of winners here. And to my favorite Uber, obviously, they have deals with eight people and it's a global market. BYD produces cars for half the price
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
of any other car manufacturer, and they have full self driving, and it's pretty darn good from what I understand. So this is going to be a global competition. And that means if you want to win that global competition, something like Uber and DoorDash, Waymo, Amazon, BYD, you're going to see some interesting partnerships happen very quickly, I believe, because there's so much at stake.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
All right, any final thoughts on biggest business deals? I think I maybe have a good one here. consolidation in the transportation space. Okay, moving on to 2025, most contrarian belief. Last year, enterprise value of open AI goes down from Chamath. It roughly doubled. But I just picked it as my prediction. So I think we're simpatico on what we think long term.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freeberg, you said increased probability of a nuclear weapon being used for the first time since World War II. Thank the Lord that that didn't happen. Again, this is contrarian beliefs. People are going out there.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, this is most contrarian belief. I think it's fine. Dr. Doom strikes again. It's all good. I picked Apple would become the player in AI and they did launch Apple intelligence, but it sucks. I mean, it sucks. It's terrible. I just bought the Google Pixel Fold 9. and the Gemini works perfectly. It does everything that Siri is supposed to do.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
If you say, please play this song, if you say, please download this app, if you say, add this to my calendar, it does it, and it does it in 1 5th or 10th the amount of time that Apple takes, and Apple gets it wrong every time. It's a piece of garbage. It's a disgrace. Disgraciad, Apple.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And we did see some of that with, you know, the breakout of Robert Kennedy, maybe. Chamath, you said independent centrists. We didn't get there with that one. And I said dark horse presidential candidates. Maybe I get a quarter point credit there with... Wait, hold on.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Disgraciad.com. I own it. I'm not selling it. Right now, it redirects to Jake Paul.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Disgraciad. Disgraciad is what people used to say in Brooklyn for somebody who is disgraceful. It is a Italian American slang. How do you spell it? You don't even know?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yes. And if you type in Disgraziat, it goes to Jake Paul. I bought it when I was watching the Tyson fight. It was so disgraceful. I was saying to my brother, Josh, the Black Bomber, this is... And he just said, Disgrace the Odd. And I just said, I wonder if that's available as a domain. I'm redirecting Disgrace the Odd right now, Tim Cook, to Apple Intelligence, the website.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And the loser gets zero.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
This is a good use of the kingdom's money. The people want to know. We will all fly out there and do an all-in episode from that fight.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freeburg versus Baker, Polly Hoppatia versus Calacanis. Oh my gosh. We need to get in our own celebrity boxing. Who would we do? Come on, keep going. I got to drive home. Let's go.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It's too much fun this episode. Chamath, what's your most contrarian belief? prediction for 2025. We're going out on a limb here. This is going out on a limb, folks. Don't judge us. The spicier the take, the better here. This is where you can go freestyle.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
A banking crisis? Wow. It's a small chance it happens, but that's a contrarian belief. Okay. Why, Chamath? Why?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Independent centrists won the election? Really? That's what you believe?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I think that there's a small but reasonable chance that that happens. I love it. It's a great, great contrarian take. Small chance, but big impact. Gavin, what do you got?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Huh. Is that statistically correct, you think, Freeberg? You about that? Independent centrists did the election?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freiberg, do you have a contrarian belief? And I did put into Gemini Advanced 1.5 Pro with deep research the question, which banks have the greatest chance of being insolvent or having a financial collapse or crisis? So it's doing its research right now. It'll be done in about 10 minutes, I think, which gives you an idea of how much research it does. It's nuts. Freeberg, what do you got?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
This is a great contrarian prediction, Freeberg. I would build on it that I don't think this is just going to hit blue collar. I'm seeing in the venture industry and in entrepreneurs, All over the place, people who are super qualified, who had six-figure salaries, even to mid-six-figure salaries, not be able to find work or not find work at previous compensation levels. Why?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Because people are doing more with less. It's much better to invest and do deep research and AI and automate stuff or deprecate stuff or delegate stuff to other regions than to hire Americans in some cases. And that philosophy that's happening isn't just going to hit truck drivers. It's going to hit developers potentially, designers, writers, marketers, project managers.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
That's an interesting idea. Why don't we have universal healthcare? Why don't we have pre-K or, you know, in every state? And, you know, these kinds of things, I think Americans are right to ask those questions.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Now, other behaviors are obviously abhorrent, but you do have the right to ask why we can't figure this out and why our government has failed us in something as basic as, you know, providing after school programs or universal health care or universal child care. These things are easy to do.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And when you see everybody getting rich and the polarization of wealth, I can understand people saying, why don't we have these basic things when other countries have them? It's a reasonable thought.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I appreciate the challenge to it, and I'll explain to you why I believe it's easy. If you just put this down to the states and you make it more competitive, I think you solve the problem.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
If you introduce school vouchers and you create competition, if you take universal healthcare and maybe you run some experiments where different states get that money from the federal government and let them run 50 different experiments, I think we could actually solve some of these problems, but you're correct.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Anything that the federal government does, it eventually becomes corrupt and inefficient. My most contrarian belief was OpenAI loses its lead, loses its nonprofit to for-profit transition and becomes the number four player in AI. The total collapse of OpenAI is my most contrarian prediction for 2020.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Just doubling and tripling down. Hey, man, I'm trying to make this spicy. It's a spicy category.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Everybody who... All his friends left the company. Maybe he's great. Maybe he's a stand-up guy. I mean, everybody quit, but maybe he's...
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I was predicting I wanted him to. I wanted him to. And he bought Washington Post and he quit the Amazon job and he bought a house in Washington, D.C. and he went down to Mar-a-Lago. Don't be surprised if Bezos, after he gets through his midlife crisis and going to Coachella and partying and having a great time, which he deserves. If he comes back and says, you know what?
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I want to serve my country. I still stand by that.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, let's stick with that one because that's one of my predictions.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yeah, sell it to Karen Swisher. Sell it to Karen Swisher. They'll run it right into the ground. They'll double down. Okay. Best performing asset. Everybody loves this one. Best performing asset. Hey, you can put a price on this. Best performing asset. Last year, Chamath did a spread trade. He was long public tech stocks, short private, late stage tech stock index.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
NASDAQ top 100 tech stock, ETF was up 10% in 2024. Freeberg, you went with your uranium ETF, not Uranus, uranium ETF, and URA was down 1% in 2024. I know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I went with the on-demand economy with Uber, Airbnb, and DoorDash. Uber was up 30%, but now it's only up 3% with the robo-taxi headwind. Airbnb is basically flat. And DoorDash up big, 74%. Shout out to Stanley Tang. Great job to the team over there. So Chamath, get your flowers there. Let's do our best performing asset. Let's let our guests go first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Gavin, what would be the best performing asset of 2025?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay, fiscal conservatives from Schmoth-Friedberg, what's your prediction for the biggest political winner of 2025?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Gavin, you're nodding. You want to answer that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It feels like a contrarian take. I mean, Trump, I don't think is going to find a way to balance the relationship with China very well. And I don't think you can rattle up entrepreneurship after you cut everybody's knees out the last time. Plus, I don't trust any accounting statement coming out of China because... They could fudge whatever they want.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
But wow, what a great potential buy low, sell high scenario.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Pull the ETF. Absolutely. Gavin, what do you think of this hot take here from Mr. Freyberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And it's a big market. So if you did get it right, and you do time it right, it could be great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I think the Mac 7 is gonna be the best performing asset. I'm taking the other side. Chamath, I think in an earlier prediction said maybe not so much. I think that what they've learned in the last couple of years is that there is an incredible earnings expansion you can do by not hiring people and outsourcing jobs to other parts of the world and automating.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And the gains we'll see from AI, which they're producing for other companies and for consumers, they're applying first internally. So the internal application of AI will allow these companies to have earnings growth that people will not be able to comprehend over the next couple of years. So I'm going with Mag7. We got a lot of different takes here going different directions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What a great episode so far. All right. Worst performing asset. Last year, Chamath said, late stage tech stock index, mostly SaaS. Freeberg, you put into brilliant spread trade, short vertical SaaS, long AI cloud providers. SaaS has had a little bit of a rebound, but Google up 36% for AI cloud, Microsoft 14%, Amazon 46% all in 2024. I said...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
LLM startups like OpenAI Anthropic, too many players, open sourcing will kill pricing. Obviously, the one valuation we can track is OpenAI and it doubled. But I do think long-term have that one work. Worst performing asset of 2025, Gavin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay. And Chamath, what do you got?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Excellent. Young candidates. We've got fiscal conservatives, young candidates. Gavin, what do you got for the 2025 prediction for biggest political winner?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
For my choice for 2025's biggest political winner, I went with something similar to you, Friedberg. I said Gen X and the elder millennials. If you look at the notable Gen X appointments, you got Elon with Doge, you got Sachs, obviously, Marco Rubio. My God, it just goes down. And then if you look at the elder millennials, J.D. Vance, Vivek, Tulsi, just a lot of young people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And you put your time and money where your mouth is on this one. 11 months ago, you found it 80-90 to get 80%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What do you got for worst performing asset, Mr. Freeburn, 2020?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It was an obvious one on my list, but I want to make a different one. I want to make a different one. How about OpenAI? Do you have anything OpenAI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
OpenAI is great company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I mean, all the talented people left, but I don't know where they are. Where are all the other OpenAI employees? Are they on vacation? They're skiing too, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Oh, right. That's what happened. Correct. Yeah, they all left to compete and have revenge startups. Wow, that's an interesting trend. Okay. So consumers make five big decisions in their life, as we all know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, that's a projection.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
They got some headwinds. Okay. Listen, consumers make five big decisions in their life. We know college spouse kids are the obvious ones. And then cars and homes. And the consumer is up against it with record debt. So, since you can't trade college spouse kids, really...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I think legacy car companies and real estate are going to face continued headwinds and be terrible assets because, listen, we've overbuilt in some cases, there's tons of cars on lots, and people can't afford homes with these mortgages. So I think these are going to be the two worst performing asset people in the legacy OEMs, as Chamath pointed out in a previous prediction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And then I just think real estate is the same. If you look at a place like Texas, two years in a row, housing values have gone down, rent has gone down two years in a row. Same thing's happening in other states where they allow you to build and people are leaving states where they don't allow you to build. So that's my worst performing asset trade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Enterprise was my other choice, but I'll go with something slightly different. Most anticipated trend for 2025. Last year, Chamath, congratulations. You said last year that Bitcoin would hit 100K for the first time. Nailed it. Half court shot. Well done. I think at the time you made that prediction, it was probably trading at- It felt like a layup. Felica lay up to you, up 112%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And this is going to be absolutely fantastic, I think, because they're going to start thinking not just about themselves, as the boomers are doing with social security, taxes, real estate, all the different issues that they tend to pick for themselves. They're going to start thinking about maybe their own kids and themselves. So, yeah, it's obviously a sea change is underway.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freeberg, you said predictive models in AI-driven discovery and pharma and bioengineering. How did that do, that prediction?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I picked efficiency in the form of AI advancements in labor and outsourcing. And I've seen that a bunch with our investment in Athena. Go to athenawow.com. Okay, got my plug in there. Let's go for most anticipated 2025 trend. What do you got, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Got it. Okay. So you are a capital allocator. You place bets on technology, on the most important new companies in the world. We'll get into that. And this is our prediction show. We did our bestie awards.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
So there you have it, folks, for our predictions for political winter. Let's go with political loser here. Prediction for political loser. We'll start off with you, Gavin. We'll do this a little round robin here. We'll snake it around. Gavin, what do you think? Who will be the biggest political loser of 2025?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
That's a leading indicator for sure. When smart people do something with their time, that's a great indicator. Gavin, what do you got?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yeah. Well, they're gonna go around corners that people might not have considered that are non-intuitive. And then just to circle back and do a little callback here, remember I asked which banks would have the biggest chance of being insolvent or having financial collapse or crisis, tons of misspellings in there as I typed it while we were talking. And you can see what deep research did here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
it went and said, here's what we're going to do. We're going to research a bunch of websites and find a list of banks in the US, find top banks by US by asset. For each one of these banks, find their latest financial statements. For each of these banks, find their capital adequacy ratios. For each of these banks, find their loan laws. You get the idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And then it went and it analyzed, and then it created a report. This took about 10 minutes. And when you look, It created this final report here where it gave a list, Chamath, of JP Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, yada, yada. It did an analysis of each one. And at the end, you can see all the different websites it pulled.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It was well over 100 websites that it pulled live data from, 162 websites. And you have to pay for this, but it's only $20 a month. And its conclusion, This analysis has provided a snapshot of the financial health of some of the largest U.S. banks, while all banks face inherent risks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Citigroup and Wells Fargo appear to be the highest risk of insolvency or financial collapse compared to JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup's recent net loss, lower CET1 ratio and high exposure. I mean, you start looking at this now, I don't know how much of this is correct. I'm no expert on this, but it does seem like it's a pretty good start of where it's getting to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And if you haven't used 1.5 Pro with deep research. Just go to gemini.google.com. I'm not being paid to say this. I just think it's the best product in the market. and it's pretty darn impressive. Okay, my most anticipated trend for 2025 was alluded to in an earlier prediction, I think, by Gavin himself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Mine is that exits in DPI, Shower Town, will have this incredible distribution as the wrath of Lena Kahn ends and M&A and IPOs will surge. That is my prediction, my most anticipated trend. Okay, let's go to most anticipated media. I had two that I was working back and forth from. James Gunn's DC Universe with Superman coming out this year, I think is going to be amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And or season two could be amazing. I predict they're going to do a Clone Wars live action series. If you don't know the Clone Wars, watch it with your kids. It's amazing animated series that takes place during the prequels. But I went with a little... of a weird choice here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I think my most anticipated media is seeing what happens with legacy media outlets owned by billionaires and or people who no longer want to pick a side. Washington Post, CNN, and LA Times specifically are steering towards the middle and trying to get back to classic journalism. The editors are revolting. Karen Swisher is upset. And they're adding some right wing voices.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It is going to be popcorn time for everybody. So enjoy whatever you want to enjoy Star Wars. I got a little Star Wars for you with Andrew season two. I got a little Superman or you can watch the chaos in the editorial newsrooms at Washington Post and L.A. Times. What do you got for most anticipated media? It is the enormity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What do you got, Dave?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Any anticipated media for you? What do you got?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Gavin, most anticipated media, 2025.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I highly recommend Day of the Jackal. I know Chamath also loved Day of the Jackal. Oh, that was really good. That was a good J-Cal suggestion for streaming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Last year, Chamath predicted Mr. Beast, Freeberg, AI-generated news. I predicted Gladiator 2 and the three-body problem. Gladiator 2 was mid, but okay, three-body problem. I didn't finish, so I guess mid.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Wow. Incredible. All right, we're going to do our prediction markets here. I'm going to put up a prediction market, which is based upon immigration and the promise that Trump made to have 15 million people be deported from the country. I think in the first year, I'm going to set the over-under at 5% of that stated number, which is 750,000. So after one year in office, will Trump have
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Deported 750,000, less or more. That's my first prediction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
We'll do it based on the White House's reporting of deportations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And we'll check with the Polymarket team if there's a way to do that prediction market, obviously. But I think that was the biggest issue of the election. So I'm putting it up there with just 5% in the first year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
So dispersion would happen to the other stocks. That's a good one. And less concentration. That's a good one. So we'll finalize these. You'll be able to go to Polymarket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Oh, I know the other one I want you to do, which was the national debt. The national debt has grown about $2 trillion per year in each of the previous two presidential administrations, right? So over the last eight years, we've gone up over $16 trillion, $2 trillion per year average. So I'm going to set it at, and Trump said he would not increase the national debt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I'll just set it at the national debt increases $1 trillion in the next year, over under. Is that a good prediction market? Or should it be $2 trillion?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Yeah, you want to basically, in order to make this, when you set a line, Dave, it's got to be one where people take either side of it. It can't be everybody takes it over.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Perfect. Which would be how much added in the year?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I love that. I love that. That's a perfect one. We'll see if he can make any, he can control the spending or if it'll just be the same.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Do it right now. Are you going full conspiracy theorist? Are you trying to get your seat here by being a little more Alex Jones? Do you believe those drones were aliens? What's going on?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
For what, exactly, yeah. And it's over a thousand days into this. Nobody from the West, in NATO or America, no soldiers have lost their lives from our side. We've just given them weapons, and so it's a humiliating defeat so far for Putin, I agree with you. Freeberg, your prediction for the biggest political loser? 2025, Freiburg's prediction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
You can come back. Come back next week. Congratulations. We have our winner for all in idle. Gavin is now the fourth best. I love this kind of conspiracy sh**. But I mean, come on. How do we make a polymarket out of this freedom?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What do you say, Gavin?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Okay, great. So you think there's a non, a significant small chance that this is the case? Freiburg, Sultan of Science, what chance do you think there is this government sitting on some extraterrestrial life or proof of it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I'm just saying it right now. If Trump releases information on extraterrestrial life, I'm voting for him to have a third term. I'm putting it out there. I'm going full MAGA. He gets a third term for me. We're changing the constitution. This has been another amazing episode of the All In podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Oh, one last for Gavin. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I love Conspiracy Gavin. This has been the best part of the show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I think we're in a simulation, so I'm fully vested in this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freiburg's driving home. I think the pyramids, the best, most credible thing I saw on the pyramids was that they used water and they raised water in channels. So they put them on wood slats or something, and then they would raise like in like the Panama Canal. They would do canals and float them up and then place them and then release the water, which, you know, sounds great to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
This has been another amazing episode of the All In Podcast. And thank you to everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
All right. We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Oh, well, you just met the guy, Freebird. You don't just ask him how big his firm is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Shamath, you have a prediction for your 2025 biggest political loser. Prediction. It's hard to do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
All right. So that's about a half an inch bigger than Shamath. He's really very nice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
I took something very similar. I said the racist vocal minority of each one of these parties. And there's a little bit of this on either side. You have DEI on one side, and then you just have outright racism on the other side. And it's probably 5% of MAGA and 5% of the left.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
And just to recap last year's political predictions, for 2024, our predictions for political loser was, I said Netanyahu, Freeberg, you said Ukraine, and Chamath, you said the Koch family, the GOP donors. Nailed that one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Freeberg, any thoughts on last year's?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
All right, everybody, welcome back to the All In Podcast, or... incredible comedian, celebrity guest, got sick at the last minute today and didn't make it. We won't say who it is, but my Lord, when he comes on this show, you are going to laugh your ass off because he's awesome. I like the comedians.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
They're collaborating with each other. It makes total sense. I can tell you here on the ranch, I would love to have an all-purpose robot going out there and using the weed whacker and trimming the bushes and the hedges and getting me wood and collecting chicken eggs. There's a million things they could do on a ranch. It'd be immediately applicable for ranch work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And if they're 24 hours a day, it doesn't matter if they go slow. But I think this is the category people are sleeping on. And I don't know who on the on our prediction show said this would be the year of robots, but it's been this is the year of robots for 30 years in the industry and does feel like this is it. Freeberg, you're sticking with your prediction, I assume.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Yeah, where can we ever get those from? Hmm. Does anybody owe us a little money? Is anybody behind on their payments? Maybe the VIG could be a little, you know, taste. I don't know if you guys have seen this, but there was a company in the 90s that was all the rage called Segway. They were going to absolutely change cities and everything, and they never did.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
But it was basically like a scooter you could walk on, and it had a balancing kind of system to it. But they made robots, and here they're making these lawnmowers now. And these lawnmowers are really cheap. They're $1,000, and they work. Here in Austin, I have seen two or three of these on people's lawns. This could be like, you know, what was the one that you did in your house, Roomba?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So your point, Freebird, there'll be purpose driven ones to deliver you a burrito, do your lawn, et cetera. And Roomba is like three or four hundred bucks, I think. And this thing's a thousand bucks. Man, this is going to get crazy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Some of the bulldozers out there are also now becoming remote controlled. So you can get like a bulldozer that you have to put in a dangerous situation and they're remote control and they're going to have AI. So I got pitched on a startup one time that was going to go up into Tahoe Hills and allow humans with remote controls to drive to my little bulldozers and make fire paths.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So imagine some fire breaks out, you send in or helicopter in the bulldozer and
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
no human in it just got a 5g connection or a starling connection and zip zip zip you're doing fire roads in the middle of the smoke dense area it's going to be really interesting when these things uh get dialed in and they're getting dialed in every day i'm going to ask brett to be a beta alpha tester of one of these robots in my house and then we'll go and do it we'll do a segment that'd be great excuse me robot can i get some more morels
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
We had the Collison brothers on last week. They crushed it. Great job to them. And then here is a quick summary. So in terms of processing volume, Adyen, 1.34 trillion. Stripe at 1.4 trillion. I mean, that's incredible that they're both in almost the same exact space. One's growing 33%. Stripe's growing 38%. Valuation? Adyen 56, they're public. Stripe, private, 91.5 billion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I guess that's the private market premium. Employee account, very interesting here, since we've been talking about Jamie Dimon's rant last week. Adyen, 4.3 thousand. Stripe, over 8 thousand. And both are profitable. Adyen's got a billy in EBITDA, which is extraordinary. But Stripe has a higher margin. What's your take on a tale of two cities here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I mean, that's efficiency in the market, right? I mean, that's why we're all looking at AI saying, we could see a lot of our economic issues come from growth. And the growth is very clear, you can do more with less. And you can generate more revenue with AI. So it's pretty clear the trend. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
A couple of wows in there, yeah. A couple of big ones.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
There's also, I don't know if you're seeing it, but there's a sense of urgency in the market right now, people feel like they have to adopt this new technology fast, because there's competition, because the gains are so clear, because in a slowing economy, this is maybe a way to accelerate revenue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Back to the stablecoins. Here's a look at Tether. They're at $143 billion in Tethers out there. Who knows what's reality there? They've got a little bit of a shaky history. And then USDC, Jeremy Allaire's is at 56 billion already. And that's only been in existence since like really in earnest, like 2021.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I do think Stripe's main business could be, if we're sitting here in five years, Chamath, could be sitting on $300 billion and getting whatever it is, three, four or 5% on some coupon, right? They could be making 10, $20 billion in pure profit if they have a stable coin out there that gets widely adopted.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
They bought that other company, so I got to think they'll launch their own. But Bridge is the facilitation layer. It's the Rails, yeah. I think this is where brand comes in. If you have a trusted brand amongst developers and there's three choices, are they going to take Tether, which people go, eh, maybe it's a little sordid, it's offshore, I got some challenges there. Am I going to use USDC?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Okay, I haven't heard of it, but okay, yeah, they sound interesting. Oh, I'm going to use Stripe. I'm going to go right to Stripe. It's kind of like the IBM... or Microsoft of payments, nobody gets fired for picking Stripe, I would say. Not anymore. Not anymore. All right, let's go through the market update here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
A lot of people are trying to figure out, are we going to have a market collapse, a boom? Let's just look at some of the numbers and have a first principle discussion here. S&P up almost 2%. So far this year, Nasdaq 100 flat Dow up 3%. So pretty good start to the year in those index numbers. But if you look at the max seven, some of them have had some serious compression. Tesla down 27%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I do think that they had a big Trump Elon spike, Google down 10%, Amazon nine, Microsoft about 8%, Meta, Apple, Nvidia, or up to varying degrees. And then Coming into our taping this week, Bitcoin down 15% over the last month. That too got the Trump bump. And then adding to all this confusion, unemployment is still at historic lows. We're at close to 4%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And if you look at the deportations that were promised, they've been modest to start. Obviously, they're just getting started. They need some money to deport folks, but they've only been deporting 500 people to 1,000 a day. And we haven't heard many numbers about the last couple of weeks as Doge has been sort of the center of attention.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
It's above my pay grade. I don't know the law of FBI investigations. And then what if they investigated a bunch of people, they were not guilty, and then they were in the files? Maybe they need to... look at them before they do a document dump. Maybe there's informants in there. I'm trying to think of what happened with the whistleblower papers from... This says something different.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So, you know, they'd have to get to two or three thousand people a day to have low millions, let's say, Chamath, two or three million people deported for it to have any impact on unemployment. Finally, act three, and then we'll get everybody's feedback on this CPI up 3% year over year, we had dipped down to that nice 2% handle. And now it's back a little bit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
If you remember in September, it bottomed out around 2.4% just in time for the election. Interesting how that happened. That same month, the Fed cut 50 bps, then it cut another 25 in December. And since inflation has been growing modestly, but steadily, not insignificantly. So put it all together. Chamath, and what do you think? And then Freiburg, we'll go to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Well, electing Trump was step one. And I don't know if there's something even more populist than Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
What's your prediction here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Certainly people are in favor of Doge and downsizing the government more than I think anybody anticipated. People are, the statistics are showing and the polls are showing, Freeberg, that it's incredibly popular. When you look at this, I don't want to say conflicting, but it's a lot of different conflicting data here as to what's going on. What do you see in the numbers here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And what does your instinct tell you? Because... part of this, I think, is getting used to Trump again, right? Like, he says a lot of stuff. Some of them are scary. Some of them are just trolling and everything in between. So what are your thoughts here? Are markets just adjusting to the new team back in town?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
That's her side to the story. Maybe they have another side. Maybe the FBI has a different side. We'd have to hear from them, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
What's my party doing? I agree with that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I encourage people to use my 72-hour rule and look at what happens 72 hours after Trump says something spicy, because a lot of times he's just, he says a lot of things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And the tax cuts are 4.5 trillion over 10 years. So, you know, it's approximately 450 billion a year. If you're trying to catch up, how are we doing tax cuts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And it's just a negotiating position.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So no one knows. Yeah. No one knows. So that's my, I think, main point is this administration is all over the place. You know, the cuts are great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Are you optimistic? Just net net, Dave, you're optimistic about this next four year period or not?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I don't think that there's a- They're too fat, too many cuts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Yeah. I mean, Chamath, I think collective action aside, you've been talking a little bit about this I don't know if it was a couple of weeks ago, you were tweeting about the great reset theory. And there's, you know, whatever that is, the third or fourth turning people have been talking about. You want to maybe encapsulate your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Yeah. The thing about the FBI is the FBI can withhold information from the president, from other folks. If there's an ongoing investigation, sources are like secret and they would be in jeopardy and national security concerns. I'm reading here. So I'm very excited to see these next two days unfold. Listen, it's a breaking news story. We'll have more to say about it next week when we get the facts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
All right. It has been an amazing 24 hours for my guy, David Friedberg. I am so proud of you. If people don't know, David Friedberg was on, I'm sorry, Celebrity Jeopardy this week. And he had a great performance. You can't say that. I can't say it. You're right. Bleep it out. Bleep it out. So you were on Celebrity, quote unquote, Jeopardy. Shows you how much of a bar there is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I think it's like a good mental model because politicians want to stay in power. How do they stay in power?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Well, there's 60% of the country own assets, but 80% of those assets are in the top like 10%. So it is definitely weighted heavily. People do have some, I guess, through the 401ks in some cases. And yeah, 60% of people own a home, 61%. But yeah, I think it's a good framework.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
The good news is, if you look at every time we have a great technological revolution, whether it was the iPhone or the internet, now AI, that tends to make the most impact on the economy. And so based on what I'm seeing on the streets, entrepreneurship is on fire right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Well, I'm talking more about, yes, you're correct. It does polarize the win in Apple shareholders, right? In the case of the iPhone or Google, in the case of the internet, but it does make the entire populace more efficient and the United States more efficient since we led both of those revolutions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
That's what I'm always trying to do is get the ball to go around the horn and get some real dialogue going here. But, you know, sometimes people feel passionate. With me again this week on the All In podcast, David Freiberg and Chamath Palihapitiya. My name is Jason Calacanis. You can follow me on x.com slash Jason. He's at Chamath and he's at Freiberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
It's disproportionately rewarded equity holders. That's obvious. and wage earners have not had the same escalation. But I'm talking about the United States and our place in the world and our economy when compared to other countries. So I still think if we lead AI, we will still have the best standard of living, the best overall economy in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
But- I love his, what do you guys think about the golden visa? I love that, the golden visa. Well, this is incredible because I literally tweeted like, Six months ago, you know, we should just sell citizenship for $500,000 a pop. And he added a zero. I'll give you a prediction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
In polymarket? In polymarket. Well done. I think, what is the bet?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I'm taking the way over.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Okay, so people are really just betting when can he get the first one done? And then, yeah, how many does he get done? Yeah. I know, I'm gonna take the top two. I think I might take 5,000 and above here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I mean, it's not available to Americans, but if there was a way to do it, I might do it. This is not unprecedented, by the way. There is something called the EB-5, which I talked about before on this show, where non-citizens can invest a bunch of money But it's a bit of a scam. I got pitched on it. People said, oh, we can get you LPs for your fund. Here's how it works.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
They invest in some, you know, Fugazi, Fugazi real estate thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Yeah, so there's a bunch of scams going on about this EB-5. But I said, as your president, I'm going to sell these citizenships and get 100,000 people to do 500K each, right? And I said they would sell like Taylor Swift tickets. I got to tell you, I think out of the gate, Apple... Meta, Microsoft buy, you know, one to 10,000 of these.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
The bar was pretty low. They're now inviting podcasters, apparently. But Jeopardy's watched by like 10 million people every episode, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So let's say you were able to buy these and you could swap them out. Like if somebody left and went back to their country, you could still use it, you still have the visa. These would become incredible for recruiting talent. If you got to get the CEO of a company over here, and you can offer them that you could buy their company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
We got two different issues here. One is, could you swap these between another person? We don't know. The president could make it like that if they wanted to for corporations to give them essentially what is a season pass that you could swap between users. Those things exist in the world as a concept. So he could decide to do that. The second piece... is how valuable they are.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Are they worth 5 million or are they worth a million?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Oh, above 100. Well, we know that there are like 4,000 or 5,000 billionaires is the estimate, I think, globally. So a cent a millionaire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Come on. These numbers are all made up. You know how many Russian oligarchs have $100 million? A lot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I think people with $20 million who are overseas in Venezuela or the Middle East would spend $5 million on it. If it was a path to them becoming a U.S. citizen, you amortize that over a lifetime, you could make twice as much money living here. So I think the numbers, like if you had $20 million, you would give 25% of your current net worth to get into the U.S., of course.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I'll take the over of 10. I wouldn't take the over of a million. I think you're right on the million number. Is that what did Trump say?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So you were on, and for the last four or five months, we've all had to like, bite our tongues. And you've been in a full scale. I don't want to say panic, but you've been hand wringing about your performance. And spoiler alert, Freiburg won. Not only did he win, crushed it. I was like watching this. This was like better than watching the World Series of Poker or a Knicks Warriors game for me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
All I have to say is this is one of the greatest proposals ever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
and oh it's great it's fan freaking tastic combined with doge okay uh if he gets this done if he gets but i agree with you by the way accredited investing done if he gets those three things done i'm voting for his third term we're going to redo the uh your personal interest in accredited investing what's the grift connection i'm not sure i'm fully tracking it's not a grift connection i feel like there's a bunch of people stealing money doing crypto scams and that
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
All of that would be solved if people could just take a test to become an accredited investor, which is like currently 6% or 7% of the country. And then they would understand diversification and how different devices work, convertible debt, whatever. And if they did understand that... you could take people who are gambling in the stock market and allow them to invest in private market companies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And I believe that would create more, this issue we brought up in the last segment about poor people not being able to become rich people and upward mobility. Upward mobility could be very easily, hold on, let me finish my thought.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Upward mobility could be so much better if a person who is an Uber driver or an HR person working at a company could put $500, $1,000, instead of betting on the Knicks or the Jets, God forbid, they could put that $500 into this new product or service they're using, LinkedIn, or this new product or service they're using. And then that would allow more startups to get created.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
There are so many people who contact me after reading my book and say, I want to invest in startups. They can't. I will tell you, I think they would be so much better off putting $100 or $500 into a startup than just wasting it at roulette tables.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Okay. Yeah. So let me counter all that. They should buy the S&P. Sure. And they can do that today, right? They can get a Robinhood account. They can buy 11% a year. Perfect. And that's the protectionist, paternalistic approach that we've had. What that doesn't do is it makes them nice and safe. And then their $1,000 becomes $1,070 next year and $1,150 the next year. Great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
They learned one lesson, the rule of 72 and compounding interest. That's the only lesson they learned. But when you start betting on startups, you learn how entrepreneurship works, how product market fit works. And so, sure, put 80% into an index fund and put 20% into investing in private companies. They would learn more. And when Uber wanted to give Uber drivers access...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
to buying shares they're not allowed to. And so the rich can buy whatever they want. They can make whatever bets they want. They can be in private equity. They can be in all these things that have the chance to 100X to 10X, but poor people can't. All I'm saying is if they're educated and they take a course,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Here is my favorite moment, the all in call as a tribute. He gets the daily double and I'm going to go all in, Ken.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Let them do, take a little bit of risk in an intelligent fashion and let them learn about entrepreneurship. I grew up blue collar and I didn't have exposure to how private company formation worked. I didn't understand any of this. I had to battle my way to learn all of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
If you had a course and people could go just as easily as they go to prize picks, which I bet on every Knicks game, and they could go just as easily to prize picks as they could go to Coinbase, as they could go to a private market company invest, that would be better for upward mobility. So you're right, people are going to lose money, but they're going to learn. What do you think, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Is there a little difference between the two of us?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
They're getting taken advantage of in every crypto thing right now. So all I'm arguing for is more education and a path for those people who want to do it to show five hours of education, 50 questions that they have an above average, you know, knowledge of how private companies work just so they have the choice to do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And if you're educated, that's why the education component hits here, you'll learn something. Just like people are learning right now to not bet on the Jets ever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
What did you think of that moment, Shimon? He goes all in. And these people, they think that they're going to get Friedberg by giving him a question about Africa, not knowing that he's African-American.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Okay, you're predicting doom. Got it. Here's the other possibility of what happens. eBay, Etsy, Airbnb. DoorDash say to the people who are part of their networks, for every 100 rides you do, we're going to give you $100 in shares. For every 100 nights you book, we're going to give you $1,000 in shares of Airbnb. And by the way, you can buy extra shares if you want to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And the government says you can spend up to 20% of your yearly income average for the past two years on investing in startups. And then some number of people who built those networks
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
whether it was Google's network or eBay's network or Uber's or DoorDash's or were part of Tesla, some number of those people are going to hit massive home runs and they're going to move from the bottom third to the middle third. And then some number of those people are going to say, you know what, I got really educated. I looked and I understood Tesla and I understood Uber.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
So now I'm going to bet on this AI self-driving company and I'm going to bet on this other company that makes robots and delivers, you know, VTOLs. And the entire group of people in our United States is going to get more savvy about entrepreneurship and capital allocation. That's a good thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
We got to get more people owning equities in this country. That's just high order bit. Because if you feel like you have more agency in your life and you're just smarter and savvier. That's the American dream. And we've lost the American dream to your point in the early second month, half the country doesn't feel like they can ever get into the top half.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
They don't feel like they'll ever be able to buy a second home or even a first. So you have this helplessness of one group of people who are like, I need a handout. And the other group of people are like, Got any stock tips? Where are you making money? What can I place a bet on? We're sitting here at a rigged game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
We all get to play in one casino, and then everybody else gets to work in the casino. I just want the people who work in the casino to be able to place some bets and maybe become owners in businesses. Hey, you know, I think talking about the US Postal Service is interesting. It turns out Trump is going to issue an executive order to dissolve the leadership of USPS.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
And the Postal Service is going postal about this in some ways, not literally, but they're angry about it. And they want to absorb the agency into the executive branch, just so you know. Post Office has been operating for 250 years. Trump plans to fire the governing board and place the agency under the control of...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
commerce and for context u.s postal services lost 10 billion dollars last year on 80 billion in revenue they can't figure out how to just make a simple profit margin or even break even and it employs 635 000 workers by the way howard did an interview with fox news yesterday where he said one of the ideas that he went back to the president with was for the postal service to do the census and
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Yeah. And this is where stripes data might come in handy. I did a tweet about this. And it's one of the most popular tweets are controversial. I got three and a half million views here without an Elon retweet or anything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
I had a very simple concept here, postal service goes down to one time a week, easy peasy, once a week, there's nothing coming in the US Postal Service that's that important to all citizens starting next year have to opt into getting postal mail by paying $1 a year. So you got to sign up for it, you got to give them a credit card or something. I'm thinking,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
80% of people don't even bother because it's all flyers and garbage anyway. And what people don't know, because I was in the magazine business and I knew all about this, we had a magazine rate, a media rate, and all these marketers have, they're subsidized. So this is the ultimate marketing and publishing grift.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
magazines, newspapers, anybody, publications, advertisers, catalogs, they pay nothing. And I think they should just double or triple the rate or remove any discounts. And then take all those buildings, Chamath, put them into the new sovereign wealth fund, redeploy the buildings, get some money out of that, give every postal worker two year severance or, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
whatever, graduate it down, full year severance, half year severance, quarter year severance while you retrain them, and just let the private markets handle this. What do you think, Chamath, of my suggestions?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
Yeah. Half the office space is not being used. The other half is being underutilized. It's bonkers. Bonkers. They're gonna be able to sell 75% of this stuff. So anyway, you know, don't blame me here, but I think it's like a really good opportunity. Our guy, Jeff Bezos, come on the pod, Jeff. Sit in the SACS chair one time. That'd be fun to have him on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Epstein Files Flop, State of the Market, Autonomous Robots, Trump's Gold Card, Friedberg on Jeopardy
He's making some big changes at the Washington Post. He's lost a fortune running this thing. And it seems like he's getting engaged and in founder mode, dare I say. He posted to his ex-account and he emailed everybody that the editorial page is gonna be run differently.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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He said that while newspapers once had a mandate to publish opinions from the broadest possible spectrum, the internet now mostly covers that. He said, I'm confident that free markets and personal liberties are right for America. I also believe these viewpoints are underserved in the current market of ideas and news opinion.
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So he's going to focus on those two pillars, personal liberties and free markets. This seems awesome. And I could get into why it's brilliant on a publication basis, but I'm just wondering what your thoughts are with him getting more engaged with the publication that he was incredibly hands-off with.
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But you were nervous. You talked about being nervous. And your techniques, our friend Jason Kuhn, we actually are lucky enough to play with one serious professional poker player in our game. Jason Coon comes to the game and he coached you a bit. What did he, what did he, what was his advice to you?
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So it's an interesting point. You know, newspapers historically always had a point of view. They picked a side. Fox, obviously, MSNBC now and cable news picked a side. This will make the publication, I think, by picking a side and saying, hey, here's what we stand for. This is our belief system. I think it will just make it viable in one way. And you're right. He wants to have a certain influence.
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That's why people buy these things. That's why they've historically owned them. And they have a point of view. And The idea that it didn't have a point of view previously was probably a mirage that some people felt there was like some objectivity. But I like it. I like him being more engaged in it and tightening it up. All right.
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Rain Man, David Sack.
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How does it work? Because you bought, I understand- an actual buzzer to practice with. Am I correct? You did this?
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Okay, obviously, but wait a second, let me ask you a question about that buzzing thing. A light goes on, when does the light go on when the question is finished?
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Oh, because it's a very good question.
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No, what I did was, my replies were so many maga lunatics and crypto scams that I had no choice but to like, I had to do something because I would have like 500 replies to every single one. And I put it on subscription. And I said, if you want to reply, it's $3 a month now. 1,500 lunatics signed up.
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So speed of sound versus speed of light.
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Since you're bringing up the big mess, this is brutal.
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Oh man, you get the Daily Double. 16,000. Crushing them. Crushing their souls.
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Hoop Dream? Come on.
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Hoosiers. I know. I know.
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I mean, come on.
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Well, I mean, and let's face it. You're the sultan of science. You went to an school and you worked at Google. So there's an expectation you should run these people over. You did run them over.
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When you see a category come up, like the Hoosiers one, right? I think that one was about sports movies, right?
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So don't you, when you see sports movies in your head, catalog probable answers like Rudy and, you know, Field of Dreams and just... Yeah, so you had all those ready to go.
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Yeah, I've done that before in a bar fight once. I was like, guys, guys, we don't need to get in a fight. Anyway, we're so proud of you. You won. You trounced them.
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I think they should put the three of us on together. Normal episode. That would be crazy. Oh my God. If the three of us were on it. I would wreck your ass. No, you would not. I will play you Heads Up Jeopardy anytime for money.
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Just so you control me. And I thank you for the $3 every month. It's all going to charity.
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All the profits. I do it for all the profits, but I would carve out 25% of the profits for a four-way tournament that was televised live. If we could get 2 million in sponsors, then we'd be up no matter what.
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I'm thinking like a business. The whole point is pain.
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That's his love language.
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I'm hurting the people he loves. His love language is hurting the people who love him.
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So we're not talking a book here. I do think Optimus and this figure and the other, this is about a dozen of these doing it credibly. If they can make these for, what, 20 grand? When do you think it becomes something a middle-class household, dual-income household would buy one of these? Five years from now? Ten years from now? How probably could they be?
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We're coming in hot already. Well, let's start there. Don't be so enthused. Tom, let's start there. How much of a disaster was the Democratic Party? And when you watched what happened with Biden in all seriousness, Do you think there was a cover up in terms of his mental acuity?
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And yesterday, Trump launched a $30 billion coin, which we refer to on the internet as a coin or a meme coin. Are you troubled by him doing something like that? Was that a wise decision on his part?
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Well, you've got to work on the regulations for that.
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If he can do that, can we all just do it? You could have done it too. Well, the SEC previously would have actually gone after you for taking money from retail investors.
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Got it. Okay.
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You only live once.
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Yeah. But you're cool with it. You're cool with doing a coin 24 hours per coin.
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It's definitely going to be an interesting four years.
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No, no, no. I have a bias against stealing from unsuspecting people.
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I think there should be a sophisticated investor test where people learn. about things like diversification. They learn who owns 80% of the coins that have just been dumped on retail and under what circumstance they can sell them. And, you know, there is a legitimate issue here that foreign adversaries could just buy these coins and influence the president.
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I think that's a real concern that people should have. So you can diminish it.
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You brought up the border. Steve Bannon says... Huh? I did? You did. You said the border was one of the main reasons why... Oh, yeah, yeah.
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And what do you think of Kamala's job out there not doing podcasts and essentially being anointed and not having a primary? The Democratic Party seems lost.
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So let's talk about that part of the mandate that you brought up.
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It's all good. I'm not paying attention to them. I'm paying attention to you. This is called management. Steve Bannon said he wants all 15 out day one. So what's going on? Steve Miller says America is for Americans and Americans only. Do you believe 15 million people should be dragged out of this country day one like Steve Bannon and Steve Miller?
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55%?
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What do you think that'll do to the economy? You brought up inflation. We have to tame that. We have 4% unemployment, the lowest of our lifetimes.
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That's the answer. We seem to have...
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you know pretty solid consensus here and in the country criminals who are basically committing two crimes whatever crime they committed here and come across the border illegally they have no standing they go but you seem to be um punting and not answering the question of should the 14.5 million other people be dragged out of the country in year one so maybe you can answer that one as a journalist i i'm telling you right now trump trump was elected to get this what do you think though you were from a state where that's going to be highly unpopular
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I'm using what Steve Bannon and Steve Miller have said. So I'm just quoting their words.
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I will tell you straight- No, I just want to know if- I think there's a lot of Americans who want to know if 15 million people are literally going to be dragged out. This is a big question for the American people. Are you going to drag 15 million people out of the country or not?
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Because Stephen Miller, who seems to be a big part of this administration, and Steve Bannon, who was the architect of the previous administration, say that's actually going to happen. People are actually nervous about that.
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And you promised you'd listen to it after this. That's right.
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His nickname is Chairman Dictator. He was voted like number one commentator by Xi Jinping in the...
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Thomas has been amazing. You fit right in here. I appreciate the honesty and candidness. And we'd love to have you back anytime.
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Well, I mean, the American people have this is why we love Jacob.
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I think it's a really important conversation. And, you know, the one thing I'm a little concerned with is just some clarity. Because Trump has an ability to say things in a bold way, in an effervescent way. And then, you know, sometimes these things actually affect people and they want a little more clarity.
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Yeah. Good luck with that job. Appreciate it. Thank you.
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Okay, everybody, welcome back to the All In podcast. We're here for the inauguration of Donald Trump in his second term, and we're delighted to have Eric Swalwell with us today. He is obviously the House representative from California in the Democratic Party. East Bay?
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East Bay?
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You guys got shellacked. this time around. It wasn't great. It wasn't good. What are the lessons that the Democratic Party can take from this? I will insert myself into this a little bit. I'm a moderate who's voted Democrat two out of three times. I was absolutely really disappointed.
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I'll just leave it at that, that you didn't have a speed run primary, that Biden was put up when he was clearly in cognitive decline. And I'm absolutely disgusted by the Democratic Party's hatred of successful entrepreneurs in this country. You've kind of lost me as somebody who voted two out of three times. Why has the Democratic Party
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left me, somebody who, you know, two out of three times would vote Democrat. And now you hate, as a party, entrepreneurship, winning, and you seem to hate democracy and you won't even have a primary.
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No, but this is my perception.
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No, I mean, this is across the board. There's a lot of middle-of-the-road folks. Yeah.
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By the way, they're even like, if you don't like Trump, can we get you on these three policies? And you can still come to Peter Thiel's party. I have never been more courted by a political party than Trump's. And I have never been more hated than I've been by the Democratic Party.
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Chamath feels that way, I think. He was a major donor. You guys are talking about having... You guys are saying you should have a Joe Rogan equivalent. You had Joe Rogan.
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You fumbled it.
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You guys had Elon Musk. You fumbled it. Yeah.
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So we should. Try and knock what's happening in the party. Like what what are you guys doing? Or is it just Headless as an organization who runs a Democratic?
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Hold on a second, though. I mean, if the Chinese government owns 100 million plus American phones, their location data, access to their microphones, access to their cameras, how is that not a security risk? I mean, that seems incredibly naive to say that. I want to build on what Jason was saying.
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It's absolutely fantastic, but we thank them for their hosting us. It's very cool. With me today, of course, my co-hosts, Shamath Palihapitiya and David Friedberg, who is a little under the weather because let's be honest, Friedberg, you've been out there. You and Lex took on the town last night.
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Yes, this is more reason to ban it. This is not speculative. No, but I don't think TikTok is a problem.
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Yeah, but one thing has 100 million people in an algorithm that could influence people's perception that Hamas is being harassed by the Israelis. They literally can change how Americans, especially young ones, perceive the world. Even if they're not doing it currently, do you not see how obvious it is that they can use it nefariously?
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I want either reciprocity, where we can put our apps in China, or I want it gone and divested to America.
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They've been caught tracking journalists.
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Well, he got a $50 million donation from Jeff Yass.
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They spy on their own citizens.
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It's literally the number one thing we've done with routers in the West because it was too dangerous. Literally already happened with telecom equipment.
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No, we're going down an intelligent route, which is to not give access to all of the personal information of the sons and daughters of representatives of military experts to the Chinese Communist Party.
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If it wasn't for the Chinese government, they would have divested it. I think it's a $30 or $40 billion. And they would give up their golden share.
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Let's move on to the border. Yeah.
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Well, I think this is a key point, that what you lead with and what you talk about and what you make a priority, that will be people's perception of your focus. And the perception that I have as somebody who again has voted Democrat two out of three elections, is that you're focused on and talking about things like DEI, things like having trans kids get surgery, and no parent agrees with this.
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Nobody agrees with this. They're banning it around the world. And you guys lead with that. That shows a lack of prioritization that is palatable to the voting populace. What they want is effective leadership.
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And when you look at what happened in Southern California, it is the height of arrogance that they're working on things like DEI and saying, this is important when the reservoir is not filled, when they're not clearing brush. And you have to make trade-offs in the world. And you guys don't seem to be able to communicate that. It's incredibly frustrating for me. You can hear it in my voice.
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that you can't say, you know what? We care about nature. We care about the trees. But you can't have trees on the floor around homes in a fire zone.
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Or we can't get minerals that we're going to be dependent on China for minerals. We need those minerals. We cannot be dependent on foreign adversaries to make important weapon systems, to make important things like electric vehicles. And you guys are concerned about the cranes and trans kids being able to get surgery that nobody wants. That's the problem with the party.
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I mean, there's a long tradition in these parties of the kids being grifters hunter. Everybody's getting in on it. Um, but let's, let's close on the borders.
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And who's inspiring?
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Absolutely recruitment as opposed to immigration better framework.
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Okay. Yeah, I
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Yeah. And on the border issue, I think that's the one where y'all could maybe get some consensus and some clarity because it really does seem to be creating an underlying tension in the country as to what's going to happen.
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How much of that was why you think Kamala lost was just her not taking ownership of the border?
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All right, everybody, welcome to the all-in inauguration special. We are here in town to celebrate and or commiserate the second term of Donald Trump, depending on where you sit on the political spectrum. And we are extremely lucky to have a partner in Spotify who has given us a box. Yes, we're in a glass box on the street. They really splurged and got a trailer.
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Yeah, fair enough. Thank you. All right, everybody. Eric, we really appreciate your candidness.
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Good luck rebuilding the party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Inauguration Interviews: Trump's Talent, Democratic Rebrand & more with House Whip Emmer, Reps Swalwell & Khanna
Thanks. Awesome. Great job, bud. All right. Welcome back to the All In podcast at the inauguration of Donald Trump, our 47th president. And we're really delighted to have friend of the pod, Ro Khanna, back on the program. He is the U.S. representative for California's 17th district, a.k.a. our hometown, Silicon Valley. How are you, Ro?
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I've always been a moderate. I like to vote for what I believe is the most qualified person. This time around, I was what they call in your business a double hater. Let's get right into that with the Democratic Party. You guys got shellacked. The candidate who you put up didn't go through a primary, the previous candidate. seem to be in cognitive decline. We can all agree.
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And it feels like a bit of a mess in the party. What is going to happen to the Democratic Party going forward? Is there a voice saying this is the plan or is it a little Game of Thrones right now? We're all wondering, where are the Democrats? It feels like you went dark. Is that a strategy to just sort of let Trump have his moment and then come back and be adversarial or state a new platform?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Inauguration Interviews: Trump's Talent, Democratic Rebrand & more with House Whip Emmer, Reps Swalwell & Khanna
What's going on inside the Democratic Party?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Inauguration Interviews: Trump's Talent, Democratic Rebrand & more with House Whip Emmer, Reps Swalwell & Khanna
What do you think the new platform will be?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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If you had to think of, you know, things to remove from the platform and things to prioritize in the platform, if you were in charge or Dean Phillips, friend of the pot as well, there are some people who feel, you know, there's more important issues than the ones that maybe you've been focused on, that you, the Democratic Party, has been focused on for this last election cycle. So...
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Maybe give us two or three ideas of what you would add to the agenda and two or three things that you might say, hey, this isn't a priority for Americans anymore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And they can do it in half the time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Can you give the win on Doge? Like government efficiency seems like consensus.
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Yeah, it does seem in the wake of what's happened in Southern California, Pacific Palisades and all the other regions that were impacted that a large number of affluent and voters and people who are active in politics are now saying it's kind of enough. The progressivism went too far left. We need really qualified people in office.
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And so what do you think is going to happen in California and what impact do you think these 12,000, 14,000 homes being destroyed? And of course, the 25 people who lost their lives tragically, what impact is that going to have? Is you think that's a turning point in some ways?
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They're alive and that's what's important, but they did lose everything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, that sounds great.
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I think safety is up there for folks. What else do you think is on that short list of things that the party in California could say to the voters in terms of winning them back and letting them understand you're focused on something other than, in their perception, DEI, maybe environmental overreach. I can't believe I'm saying that.
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The fact that people don't believe in clearing the forest around homes and they're fighting it on environmental grounds. Well, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that these wildfires have been occurring for a long time. We have the salt in the science here. We can go into the science of it. And that if you want to live near a forest in a fire zone, you kind of got to clean up
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the detritus on the forest floor. It feels like the leadership in California is kind of present company excluded. It's kind of lost the script here, huh?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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What are your thoughts on TikTok going dark in the last 24 hours here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Well, India banned these apps.
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And we're not India. They're pretty savvy, though. These things are an attack vector. You can remotely control these phones. They were caught spying on journalists and they could shape public policy. So and they've had years to divest. Seems to me that the Chinese government sees this as a strategic military asset. Do you disagree with that?
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If the Chinese government spies on their own people, why wouldn't they spy on their adversary, the American people?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Shamath, you have a very busy social schedule and you've been just bouncing around town with the who's who and taking credit for Donald Trump's victory. How's the victory lap going here? Because you played such a key role here by coming out. And being even more unlikable in our hometown of the Bay Area and supporting Trump. I'm a small bit player. A bit player.
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What about the concept of reciprocity? Would you be in favor of requiring that we have our social networks in China if they want to have theirs here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I don't trust China as much as you gentlemen do.
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They don't have the same scale as TikTok.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And in fairness, they didn't take the jobs we gave
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I just popped up five groups while we're speaking here.
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Americans want the border secure. There's no doubt about that. The statistics just show it. 80% of Americans want it kind of shut down and be orderly and legal, maybe even more. But this idea that we're going to drag 15 million people out of the country No, I'm just quoting Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller, who one of them worked in the first administration and architected his first win.
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And the other one is the most powerful person inside the administration this time. So I'm just quoting people. They say day one, 15 million are going. So do you think that's actually going to happen?
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So you would have empathy and sympathy for the person living in your district, even if they weren't legal, is what you're saying, I think. It's quite reasonable, if I may interpret.
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So clearly, you don't believe these people should be dragged out of the country. Correct. I think we're in agreement on that. Some people are not. Mago 1.0. Do you believe they should be dragged out? It's a long... I don't want to put you on the spot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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What about that dental hygienist who's been here for 20 years? Would you give her amnesty? I would. Seems like a great American.
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You know, I would you know, let me let me ask this question. Whenever we talk about immigration. We never have a number put on it. And we don't have a point-based system here. So it devolves into this discussion we're having right here, which is, oh, they stole our jobs and wages are down in the face of the lowest unemployment of our lifetime, 4%. And 7, 8 million jobs out there.
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There's two jobs for every person who's unemployed if you do that basic math. Now, of course, there's some disparity in people having the skills to take certain jobs and geography. Putting all that aside, We have 340 million Americans. Would an easy situation here be to say we will import people based on the need in the country?
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So if we don't have enough people working in health care, we're going to open up. And if unemployment's under 10%, we'll have 3 million people come in a year. We'll have 2 million people come in a year. And just put a number on it. And then have Americans and our representatives debate that number. Why don't you guys do this?
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People don't understand this about the H1Bs is they are transferable, but you have 30 days, which makes essentially, as it was explained to me when I was in the IT business, these are indentured servants and they don't have choice and they have this- threat that they're constantly under.
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If you don't do what we say as an employer and you don't accept this salary, you're going to be out of the country. Exactly. And you're going to have to take your family with you. Would an easier solution to be to just charge 10% of the salary into a pool as a tax so people don't abuse it, the salaries go up, have a minimum salary, and give them maybe a year to find another job?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Freeberg, you have a lot of thoughts on fiscal responsibility and have been banging the drum on the national debt. Tom, you also have a passion for fiscal responsibility. Maybe you have some thoughts on that, Freeberg?
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So when you hear Stephen Miller say, America is for Americans and American only, you think that flies in the face of the spirit of this country?
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Yeah, no, I would love to have him on because I watched his entire speech, and the way he speaks seems incredibly xenophobic and a bit racist to me.
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It's okay if you don't too, right? I mean, we can have that discussion in America if we're pulling the ladder up now and we're not a land of immigrants.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And you've created thousands of jobs and you're going to create billions of extra calories with these amazing Ohana strawberries.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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By the way, this show has been brought to you, but not only by Ro, but also Roman. Go to get Roman, Ro. I got to wrap up. You got to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yes, no, maybe.
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I'm going to have more kids if I get two years of paternity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I'm open-minded. What about Puerto Rico?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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If asked by your party and the citizens of California, would you consider? Would you consider it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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That's a wrap from the 47th inauguration of the United States, and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Inauguration Interviews: Trump's Talent, Democratic Rebrand & more with House Whip Emmer, Reps Swalwell & Khanna
This requires sacrifice and it requires representatives from each city and each state to then go to their constituents and say, hey, we fought to get you X, Y and Z, and you're only going to get X and Y.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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But as you said to me in the car over here, you were the fulcrum that started the boulder that created the wind.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Like Australia's system, the super system.
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Let's see. Let's see. Phase two. We're extremely honored to have Tom Emmer here. He is the U.S. representative from the amazing state of Minnesota, home of Bob Dylan, Prince, and the Coen brothers.
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Should Americans be able to trade cryptocurrency freely without regulations? Or do you think those regulations are in place for a good reason?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, everybody. As you know, there was a big verdict that came out today in the Trump trial in New York City. However, it came right after we were taping. So enjoy this episode. And then at the end, we'll go around the horn and get quick reaction from each of the besties on what they think of the Trump guilty verdict in the New York hush money trial.
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Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I don't think he's going to have the platform behind him to get enough votes. I think the Democrats need to immediately, this month, in June, do the switcheroo. And if they do, I think they win in a landslide.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think, you know, if I want to be a strategist, this is just a conspiracy theory. I don't want to go to like tinfoil hat corner. I think the Democrats, as cynical as it sounds, we're waiting to see what happens with this Trump trials conviction, what you call lawfare, what other people call fair use of the law. And then they are going to see how he does in the debates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I'm kind of like the host. You know, like I mean, he's a bunch of guys. Who's this guy who does American Idol?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's why they moved the debate up in June. And I think they know to pull the plug on this if it gets too far gone. And they have the ability to do that because all he's got to say is, You know what? I'm feeling old and I want us to win and I'm going to slot somebody else in. But listen, let's go get to this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think precisely. Thank you for repeating that. And I think the only disagreement we might have there is I would agree like there's law for in two of the cases. And I think two of the cases I think are should be pursued. But, you know, we can intelligent people, as we said at the start of this, can agree to disagree about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I think you should all take if you're a listener to this podcast, you're smart. If you're here, you're smart. You're not listening to two-hour podcasts with us going this deep on issues if you're not a brilliant, smart, and attractive individual. So let's get to the docket. Present. Yes, that's right. Just say, you're brilliant and attractive, and he's here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Ryan Seacrest. I'm like going to be the new Ryan Seacrest. That's what they envisioned for me. And that's my first spin-off show. So here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, listen, I hate to go into another controversial topic, but the four of us were all on fire about this. Apparently, the COVID-19 investigation is leaning towards a massive cover-up. There's a subcommittee going on right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The world's not paying attention to this, but I think some savvy people are, especially over on X. There's a lot of great journalists who are doing incredible investigative work. Let me just catch everybody up in the audience real quick here and get the besties involved.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Over the past year and a half, a House subcommittee has been focused on the origins of COVID-19, and they've been investigating the NIH's ties with gain-of-function research in Wuhan. The subcommittee was painted early on as like, this is angry Republicans, this is about mask mandates. It was highly politicized, but it's actually turned out to be very effective bipartisan work. investigation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We'll get in on that in a minute. But so far, most of the investigation is focused on nailing down this timeline of communication between NIH officials and an organization called EcoHealth Alliance. This is a nonprofit that's focused on infectious disease research. Now, These committee videos are online. We'll play you on in a moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
But through funding in the NIH, the EcoHealth organization was awarded research grants to various labs. This included the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the infamous one. EcoHealth violated terms of its grants by failing to report that gain-of-function experiments were being conducted in Wuhan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
EcoHealth was supposed to report any experiment that exhibited characteristics leading it to being 10 times more infectious. But when that happened, it failed to disclose this research to the NIH. And on May 17th, a deputy director of the NIH acknowledged that the agency funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan via EcoHealth. This is the key because Fauci initially denied this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Rain Man, David Sack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
During his 2021 Senate hearing, Fauci said, quote, I totally resent the lie you are now propagating in response to questions from Rand Paul about the lab leak theory. So Fauci either didn't know or he lied under oath. Let me pause there for a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
There's a lot more to the story, but when you hear this sort of setup, Friedberg, our sultan of science, in this initial setup, what rings concerning to you, true to you? And then we'll go on and we'll play some clips of this testimony, which is pretty wild.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
In other words, their funding of this was not done to create a pandemic.
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Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Queen of Kinwada. There's a lot of news. My inbox is blowing up. I went over to Threads to see what was going on over there and I got absolutely savaged. Threads is like all the hall monitors left one school. Like, if they took the four hall monitors from every school in the country and you put them all in one place, that's Threads.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, so let me queue up those next details.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Well, yeah, let me cue this up here, Saxon, and get your... Why are you exonerating it? Hold on, let me cue it up. All right, so we started to see some consequences and accountability. Last week, the U.S. Department of Health cut all funding to EcoHealth in response to the committee's investigation. They disbarred its president, Peter Daszak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Daszak. And so we don't have direct evidence to be clear that the pandemic was the result of a lab leak. And, you know, just even saying the lab would have gotten this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Let's go to that in just one second. And thankfully, this isn't going to get our YouTube channel shut down because we have freedom of speech back a little bit. But. This is where it gets really interesting. Emails were written as EcoHealth with a tilde.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's that little squiggly line instead of an O. And they would spell Anderson with a dollar sign in the E. Christian Anderson, in this example, is a biologist who was reportedly awarded 9 million in grants from the NIH two months after publishing a paper claiming COVID did not come from a lab. And so let's get to some of these clips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Here's a clip of Fauci's former top advisor, David Morin's getting grilled in the hearing. And I'll play two clips and then I'll give it to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, so we're on the no recollection train, and then I'll give this final clip here. This is unbelievable, Sachs. Currently, there's a FOIA lady, Freedom of Information Act lady, working at NIH to train and help and mentor people on how to avoid having their Communications, these are people who work for us, and she's the FOIA lady at NIH. Play the clip, Nick.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Threads is like Zuckerberg's
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
twitter revenge killer that he created but all the journalists and woke folks went there and then all the conspiracy theories took over x and twitter and like freedom of speech in one place and then the hall monitors in the other but my lord the inbound i'm getting sax on apparently you're having a party this thursday and uh a couple of people are coming a soiree well it's my birthday it's my birthday party oh yeah okay so there's a little soiree happening sax enlighten the audience uh what are you up to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No. All right, Sax. There's your red meat. Smoking guns everywhere. What do you think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's literally like, they're like, here's how we can avoid getting caught in an email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
By the way, who is a Stanford professor, was banned for speaking up. Chamath, let's zoom out here and start thinking strategy and theories of what's going on here. I have my own, but I'm curious to hear yours first as we go around the horn here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think it's well said. And, you know, just looking at it, I think we are now at the point of this conversation and investigation where you can say this is not a bipartisan issue. And everybody knew, like we had these conversations on this very podcast, the public knew. Something didn't seem right about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And if you just think about this from first principles of what occurred here, just what occurred here. Schreiber, we funded gain of research to create these super viruses that what I think other people could just as equally call a bio weapon with the Chinese. Now, we're supposed to be arch rivals here. We're like these competitors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And then when it came out, and it leaked, and of course, I don't think it was released on purpose. When it came out, the people who work for us, and we trust with our family safety, who funded this in order to save their own reputations to cover their asses, then lied about it. And then, like, as you said, Sax, perfectly, they went on the offensive. These people were not elected by anybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's right. These people work for us. And they failed us. This is a crime against humanity of the greatest cause. People committed suicide. People died because they had depression. Our kids lost two years of school. Totally. This generation has lost their education. And now we have burdened them with... Billions, hundreds of billions of dollars in debt from this. This is a failure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Oh, God, it's so dark. It's so dark. I mean, the betting markets are just. Basically, they seem to have already made their decision, the betting markets, right? And the betting markets, they're not always right, but they were wrong, actually, about Hillary and Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
This is a failure of leadership. It is a crime. And when people said, prosecute Fauci, they were like, you're being hysterical. This is ridiculous. These people need to be prosecuted. If you hid this stuff from a FOIA request... You need to go to jail. There needs to be accountability here for what they did to society, our children, and the future.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I mean, talk about like incinerating your entire career and legacy, but putting that aside, the morality of covering this up. And, you know, so then you have to think, Shamaa, This is why I was like, what is the strategy? What goes through somebody's mind when they decide to do a cover up this level?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Is it just fear of getting caught and their lives being in their mind ruined and they're going to do this incredible cover up? I actually think that they thought this would become a globally destabilizing moment between the United States and China. And that there could be revolutions. Now, I know that this is now sounding really conspiracy theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
But if you're sitting there, and you're like, what if the public finds out we created this, and their grandparents died from it, and their kids didn't go to school because of it, there'll be riots in the street. But if enough time passes, maybe there's not riots in the street. But you know what, this is something that is just so abhorrent, that I mean, people need to really be held accountable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And a little update on the market close and tech stocks tanking and after hours trading stick with us. Man, what a week I've had. Oh, you have an intro?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Freiburg, your thoughts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
What do you do? And how do you how do you answer that? There's a really simple, there's a really simple question. If anybody who's watched any kind of science fiction or knows the history of this kind of research, which is don't do this in a population center. And what, how will you prevent it from breaking out? Like literally that's job one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
If you're going to, even if you're not going to like literally every science fiction film has this, it's like put it on an Island and there's an Island off long Island where they keep these things. I forgot the name of it is plum Island or something. Well, look it up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Let me punch up your question for you, Berg, because if your question is, what should you do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You own it. There's an idea, you own it. And you know what, like, the question really embedded in your question, Freeberg, I think is, is gain, is there any argument to doing gain of function? If so, how? And then is there any reason to research, you know, the bat dung or whatever material they get it from, you know, from those caves and take it out of the caves?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I could see the latter, Chamath, of like, hey, this existed nature. You study it on an island somewhere far away from everybody with massive controls. The gain of function seems like it literally feels like the speech from Jurassic Park. Like, I think it's not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And Jurassic Park took place on an island for a reason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's nuts. Go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And when we say we. Sorry, let me just parse that out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
How would you change it? We have to turn these things over, these organizations, or get rid of them?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Well, and then I'll just say here, I want to give a shout out to the journalists, Catherine Iban and Emily Kopp. I know that people also have no faith in journalists. These are two journalists I think you could have tremendous faith in who are going to win Pulitzers because they've been doggedly pursuing this. And you have to wonder why this is not the top story on CNN.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
the news networks and why this isn't the head of the New York Times or the Washington Post. There needs to be much more coverage of what's going on here. I don't understand why this isn't what we're talking about. Yeah, because Trump takes every headline.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
For information, you think access journalism is what's going on here. He gave them access.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And you have to lay on top of all this, Sax. It's a political environment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We needed Jon Stewart to dismantle the pangolin theory. You know, in relation to that, these wet markets have spread massive viruses and, you know, all kinds of things. And they do need to be There was like a UN report on like, hey, we have to upgrade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I don't know that it was a great cover story. I think it was a logical theory to pursue to the end point of eliminating it because they, around Wuhan, there are a lot of these wet markets. It is completely conceivable that a person who was in that lab went to a wet market and it spread via the wet market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
This is why we need a full investigation, folks, because all these theories could come together and there are more cards to turn over, which one of you alluded to, like, Who knows what the turn in the river are gonna be here? Like, what did China know? What did our government and China know? Maybe they are making bioweapons. Maybe they're doing even worse stuff that we don't know about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Maybe there's all kinds of rogue programs that are occurring here. That's why we need to keep digging and digging. The American public must hold these people accountable and they need to tell us who else was involved. Because if Fauci's involved and this guy's involved, there's other people. I want to hear from everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
They have to take ownership of this and being honest, yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
zero-based budget, zero-based budget, the whole government. Start over.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And just go right through each one. Like if, and, and you know what, it should be a bipartisan issue, but there's so much money involved. And this is one of the challenges in a capitalist system is there's so much money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
There's so much grift to go around that when something like this happens and there's an opportunity to, I don't know, make a vaccine and, and, you know, put a couple of billion dollars into this light speed thing, which was a great idea, seemingly, uh, Everybody lines up. Okay, yeah, sure. We'll get involved. We'll take some of that money. Yeah, buy a billion shots from us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
At least we're in a democracy where these hearings are occurring. I just want to give kudos to, in addition to those two journalists, to the people on this subcommittee who are doing it in a bipartisan way and they're being relentless. I think that's the honorable thing to do. I encourage them and those investigative journalists to be relentless.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I mean, profile and courage. People were like, this guy's a loon. No, Rand Paul had it right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah. From the mouths of babes. I mean, bad is, I mean, if they covered this up in the way it's looking like, I would call this behavior not bad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I mean, burn it down. I mean, that's the conclusion any logical person would come to is just burn it down. This makes no sense that they would try and cover this up. The right thing for Fauci to do is say, hey, listen, We didn't do gain of function, you know, under Obama. We did do it here. It's obviously been a mistake. We need to never do it again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And here's the roadmap to make sure that we protect people from the next one. Thank God this one didn't kill children the way it's killing old people. And by the way, this is going to crack open. I encourage you all to be vocal about this and to watch on Monday. Because Dr. Fauci is scheduled to appear in a hearing for the same subcommittee. And that is going to be explosive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Since we're in the don't trust anybody and have your own sovereignty and we're in libertarian moment, let's go to our crypto correspondent. It's Crypto Corner with Shama. Shama. So it's part of my production company. I'm now doing Crypto Corner with Chamath. That'll be next week's cold open.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Shout out to SPF.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, I mean, he was dropping money on everybody. Did you guys hear this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Give the billion to Trump. He was going to give Trump a billion to not run. Okay. And then get Tom Brady to run. I mean, this person had delusions of grandeur. He thought he was a Jedi Knight and he's like literally in Jabba's palace right now. I don't know what this, I mean, what a lunatic he was. I mean, talk about delusions of grandeur, Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
This guy thought he would just drop a billion dollars and convince somebody not to run for government. I think we're going to, I think we're going to get a regulatory, you know, back to the young people we talked about in the previous story. I think the reason they're attracted to crypto is because it doesn't have government control.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And since if you don't trust the government and you see the government over and over and over again, cover things up or the grift or make decisions that are not in your generation's best interest, why wouldn't you opt out of their financial system? And you know what? There's a lot of them and they have, and they're getting organized to your point, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think we're going to have a crypto framework and it's worth probably five points in this election. What do you think, Sax? How many points is being the pro-crypto candidate worth in this election? One, two, three points of votes? Four points? It's got to be something significant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think this is like such a great issue for political candidates to embrace. And it's just such a simple framework. I've said it a dozen times. Create a sophisticated investor test. Let a thousand flowers bloom. People can make whatever crypto projects they want. But to buy it, you just have to take a simple test like a driver's license so that you don't risk your entire net worth or whatever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
If you do, you're an informed buyer of crypto. Just make a sophisticated investor test and let's move on. Chamath, just since we're in Crypto Corner, before we leave Crypto Corner, when is my ape going to be worth money again? When will my ape go back up?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Oh, so my ape's not coming back. Okay. So I guess I shouldn't have done that. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
My coin went crazy, but that was a pump and dump scheme that we had nothing to do with. I will never sell you a coin until I do. I just want to let everybody know that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I would literally do an angel investing coin immediately if there was a framework for it. would be the greatest idea ever to have like a J coin and I could just like put it into startups that people could buy and sell it and be like this ongoing evergreen venture. Where's my J Dow? I love dow's and I love I love the idea of an angel investing coin, but man, startup coin would be brilliant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You know, I've always been a fan of Howard Stern. And his agent, Don Buckwell, called me. He saw the show last week. This is all true. And they said they want to start a production company. So I started a production company and I've already got my first show. I've signed my first show, The Pilot. What is the show? Well, here it is. Let me show you. Thanks for asking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah. Well, my friend decided to tell everybody he was going to buy some and that straight to the moon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
it's hilarious i have some uh i've only we've only bought crypto twice we have some doge uh which i bought during like the our doge phase a couple years ago and then uh my wife presently bought bitcoin you know at a very low price when everybody was talking around it around thanksgiving and uh my my heart bitcoin went phenomenal and my Doge is at breakeven now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So I've spent two years just on the pendulum. But who knows? Maybe Doge will become a thing again. I love Doge. All right, we have a bellwether of sorts here. Salesforce dropped more than 20% after reporting earnings. We should talk about the state of SaaS, software as a service, if you're not in the industry.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Salesforce had its worst day in the markets in nearly 20 years on Thursday, and that's when we taped this. They lost about $40 billion in market cap, or as we say in the industry, two figmas. On Wednesday, Salesforce missed Q1 revenue estimates for the first time since 2006. Revenue was up $9.1 billion, 11% year over year, but about $40 million below Wall Street expectations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Well, in fact, RFK believes that we shot him out of a cannon, is I think what he said, or something, and that we got the sort of candidacy going. Vivek, I think, also kind of debuted here in a major way. To be clear, All In isn't hosting the fundraiser, Sax. You and Chamath are. I'm not donating. I'm not going. Freeberg, you're not donating. I don't know if you're going or not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So they're doing great, but Wall Street is concerned for a reason. We'll get into what that is. Net income was $1.5 billion, 7x year over year because they've been doing a lot of cuts over there. Free cash flow, $6 billion, up 43%. Profits are up huge because if you remember, those activist investors came in and had Benioff
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
really rethink the structure of the business and the footprint of the business but guidance for q2 down salesforce projecting seven percent growth relatively low for them freiburg you and i were talking about this like what are your thoughts here on what's happening in the markets.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And then we had the side discussion, which we didn't dock it, but I think it's worth bringing up here in dovetailing, which is, it does seem like the consumer, which this is an enterprise story, but the economy is cooling off. Consumers, I think, are running out of money. The YOLO economy is finally... I think, at its end. What does this say to you, Freebird?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I was about to say, almost 5%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So Chamath Freiberg presented two options here. One of them, macroeconomic slowdown. The other one, hey, software... belt tightening is happening inside the enterprise and it's cheaper to make. So maybe we have a deflationary kind of situation inside companies. I guess this is adjacent, that last part of his theory is adjacent to the 80-90 mission you're on with your new startup.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think you told me you're not donating or going. Got it. Okay. You waved his hand. And so, I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And maybe this, is this an or or an end in your mind, Chamath? Is it both these things? But sorry, before you answer the third point I made was that generative AI might Yes, and the third point may not be a product line, it may not be enough to charge for given all the open source tools. Yes. And there's a big question mark about the AI new software, will people pay for it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So Chamath take those three? What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
As Americans, we can do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Sachs, obviously, you made your bones in the SaaS business over the last two decades, at least. What are your thoughts here on the challenges? I just interviewed Owen McCabe from Intercom, and he says he thinks the seat model is going to change. And obviously, if there's less people at companies, there's less seats. And that may be a headwind that you just can't win against.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So maybe a consumption model has to happen or a different pricing model. But what are your thoughts on what's happening at Salesforce? And then open the aperture there and tell us what you think is going to happen in terms of how corporations either decide to make that you know build or buy decision
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I mean, I, I don't, I'm not like big into politics and the idea of giving money to politicians to me, not my thing. You know, I have, I'd rather invest in the next startup to be totally honest. If I'm going to put 50 K towards something or God forbid 250 K for me, I'll put that in a startup. That's what I like to do. But you know, everybody's different. And
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
What about the bigger picture? Open the aperture there with the SaaS versus end pricing and how many people will work at these companies. And then if the per seat model is the model, and then people are going to have less humans working at companies and do more with less, what does that mean for SaaS writ large?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
For the people who are asking me to not be friends with Sachs anymore, I'm gonna be friends with Sachs forever. We love each other. We're besties. And he can have a different opinion than me. I'm getting absolutely crucified that I'm supporting Trump and how could I be friends with Sachs? Go yourself. Sachs is my friend. We can have a difference of opinion on some topics. Deal with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Which is, I guess, a good jumping off point, which is what do we think is happening here with the economy and then interest rates?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Because the whole goal here was to get us under, you know, get us close to 2%, get rid of the free handle, at least in terms of interest going up and maybe get the consumers to not be spending so much money, which is crazy to think about, or maybe get more people laid off and have the unemployment not so low.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think that's exactly right. I think we're here. When you see that three handle, like, does it go down? You know, it's very interesting about the 2% target. I went down the rabbit hole to try to figure out that 2% target. I was like, who came up with 2% as a number? Why isn't it three or 2.5 or 1.5 or one?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's a guy in New Zealand who came up with what he thought was a good target, 2%, the world adopted it. Going back to our conversation about experts. Yeah. He just freely admits it. He's just like, yeah, I just thought 3% seemed like the right number. It wasn't too high, wasn't too low, and it's kind of healthy to have things go up in price because that means the economy's growing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's just a random target, 2%. It was his gut. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, someone's got to give. And then also, if they keep raising taxes, like their plans are, then affluent people are going to be trying to protect their assets. Who's they? Who's they? I'm just thinking like a politician, like if a politician were to raise taxes dramatically. Biden or your switcheroo candidate. I don't want you to have Biden derangement syndrome here, Sachs, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I'll see you Thursday night with my $50,000 check.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And maybe you could learn something from it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Let's do our draft. The one founders you should not bet against. Which founder would you least want to short Chamath your first in the draft? Who do you got? Who would you not want to bet against? Worst person to bet against. Sorry, what do you mean? Like founders? Any entrepreneur in history.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Barbecue sauce, okay. You picked Elon in the draft then? That's number one. Chamath, who you got? Yeah, that's easy. I would pick him too. Okay, but we got to pick somebody out. That's why it's a draft. Here we took Elon. I got to take the next person. It could be anybody. It doesn't have to be alive. It doesn't have to be in position right now. Who would I, sorry, what founder would I be?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Who would you least likely to short? An entrepreneur you'd least want to short. Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison, yours, hold on. Now, Freeberg, you get to go in the draft. Who do you got?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Bill Gates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, I said it could be any period of time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, everybody, breaking news today in the law being fair. I'm sorry, today in lawfare, depending on your view, Trump was found guilty on all 34 felony charges. You can choose your own framing here. Some say it's election interference. Some people are referring to this as the hush money porn star case. Other people are calling it the deep state lawfare case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The jury deliberated for about a day and a half. Trial lasted six weeks, including testimony from 20 witnesses. Key moment seems to have been Trump's CFO, Weisselberg, who's, I think, in jail right now for other charges, outlining the terms of the payments to Michael Cohen, the disgraced lying attorney who recorded Trump's conversations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And that's, I think, all I can tell you about this, except for maybe the sentencing is coming up. It's going to be July 11th, which is but four days before the RNC. Clearly a sad day for America. I'm not sure if anybody on the panel has any opinions on the Trump verdict, but let's just randomly start with you, David. Any thoughts on Trump being convicted of 34 felonies in this case?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Okay. If people are wondering what the case is actually about, falsifying business records, this is a pretty serious crime in New York City. Basically, when people don't keep correct records, when they're committing crimes, this is taken seriously in New York because it is the financial capital of the world. They've got a long history, whether it's, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Bernie Madoff, Enron, et cetera, of pursuing these. I don't know why this didn't get communicated well to the public, but there were obviously tons of business records falsified here. And they basically admitted to it. Michael Cohen had pleaded guilty to it already. And so it really feels like a misdemeanor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And then to understand what happened after that, there is a law in New York, as Sachs correctly pointed out, on top of the falsifying of business records, which New York takes deadly seriously, and they put this in every indictment when people do it, because they want the accountants, lawyers, CFOs to behave themselves and not cheat the public
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The election interference, also taken very seriously in New York. There's been tons of cases. Again, typically minor things, but people who do things like try to stuff ballots, et cetera. And so you put those two together. If you do falsifying, if you falsify business records and you do it as part of a second crime, which he did, which he was convicted of, Then you get these penalties.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So that is the explanation of the case. That was why he was found guilty. It's pretty easy to figure this all out. If you don't know all this, it's because you didn't take the time to read anything about the case. in terms of the basic heuristics of it, which I think is because people are burned out on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Trump has committed so many misdemeanors and crimes over time that we're kind of used to it. And, you know, my personal take on it, and I'll just leave it at this, is I think it's going to be a speeding ticket. I do think it's going to get overturned. I think Trump has done this his whole career. I lived in New York.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All these real estate guys were doing all these kind of like little ticky tacky cheating things. And I do think that this was politically motivated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Election interference. But what does that mean? You're not allowed to interfere with elections. So the theory here, which the jury unanimously voted in front of over these six or seven weeks, election interference was because Trump was in dire straits. He, after the Access Hollywood tape came out that weekend, when he admitted to assaulting women, the grab them by the blank came out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
His team, in this case, admitted, including his assistant, Michael Cohen, Allen Weisselberg, and of course, the guy from the National Enquirer, Pecker, all of them agreed, testified, and just were completely honest that this payment and the reason they bought these people off was because they were scared that it would reduce his chances of being elected. They were in panic mode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
They all testified to that. The jury found that they committed these crimes, the falsifying of business records, in order to save his election chances. So that is the legal concept. This legal concept was available to everybody for the last, you know, since it's been filed in the New York Times. Anybody who doesn't
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
read these basic things and comments on this case is just a partisan who doesn't want to accept the reality that these are actual legal concepts that are completely valid.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Now, I do think, despite all of that, and me making it abundantly clear to anybody that you don't want people falsifying business records, and you also don't want anybody interfering in elections, I do think it was politically motivated. So you've got to keep two things in your mind at the same time. It's politically motivated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Trump commits crimes regularly, often, but they tend to be tiki-taki forms.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, because I think, well, let me restate that. I think he's going to get a speeding ticket. I don't think the case is going to reverse. I think there's going to be some sort of a pardon. Now, this is a state kind of situation. So it wouldn't be Biden who would pardon it, it would be the governor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I think what's going to happen is somebody like Trump, Teflon Don, he's called that for a reason. He gets away with it every time. He's rich, he's powerful, like all rich and powerful people. You have to really do something heinous to wind up in jail. So I think it's going to be a speeding ticket. I do think the documents cases, that one is a pretty legitimate one. with obstruction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I do think the election interference, those are the two he should be really worried about. Because if he is found guilty on those, those are legit. But I do think this country is going to need to come together. I hate to be the bigger person here. But I do think the company, the country needs to get together and get us two new candidates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And we can't be having this lawfare and politically motivated lawsuits every time somebody loses or they're afraid of losing an election. Let me ask you a question, Jason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think we're kind of in the same area. I think there's always been politically motivated prosecutions that have occurred. That's part of the flaw in our legal system. And I do think appeals, pardons exist as the relief valve for those things. And I think for rich and powerful people with great representation, they always get off unless they've done something incredibly, incredibly heinous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I don't think this is incredibly heinous. And so when it's framed as simply, oh, it's a porn star, he banged a porn star, who cares? It was consensual and she got a payoff or maybe she was extorting him even. I don't know if those details were ever determined if you could frame it as extortion or not. I think none of that matters.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Like this falsifying business records thing is just something they did. They should just own it. They should have just pled it out. And it should have probably never been escalated to the next level with the election interference. I thought that was a little bit of a stretch, but not that much of a stretch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So I think that is part of the lead in the case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, I'm not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'm going to stop you right there. No, sorry, Sachs. You don't get to say I'm giddy. I'm not going to tell you how you feel. You don't get to tell me how I feel. I actually am sad for America. I'm sad for America. that Trump and Biden are our choices.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No enthusiasm, not at all.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Listen, you know, I think Trump will continue to do these. He's had these long before he was in public office. He got tons of speeding tickets like this. He'll get them after he's out of office. He's always committed crimes. He's always done these minor things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's not going to be. It's not going to be. The obstruction case and the January 6th case, those are legit cases. They should have just gone after those because those are the ones that are completely legit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, there you have it, folks. There's your quick hot take around the horn with your bestie on Trump being convicted. by a jury in New York today. It'll be sentenced on July 11th, and we'll see what happens there. The market also, after we talked about Salesforce, a bunch of the SaaS companies took a dive in the after hours. Freeberg, any thoughts there as we quickly wrap up?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, no, that's happening in startups right now. I'm seeing startups with four developers do what just a couple years ago, they would need eight to do there. And that's the premise of your company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I agree. There's going to be a bit of a gap there. And I am biased because I see startups, which are always looking for the most resourceful way to do things. And you're talking about large enterprises, which are slow to adopt, right? So I think we're both to be right here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
What you are witnessing is real. The besties are not actors. The cases are real. Both parties have agreed to settle their disputes here. J-Cal production, The Rain Man's Court. Yeah, it's warfare. On today's show, Shamab guilty of first-degree unbuttoning? Friedberg accused of plastic perjury? Jason appealing his grifting conviction. Throwing the book at Thelonious Fauci.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
One thing I just want to make sure. I'm not a markets guy. I do have some information on the Dell stuff. One thing to keep in mind is they had like a 30% run-up or 20% run-up at least since NVIDIA's CEO praised them and I guess all these meme stock people just jumped in. So I think it's just like a little ticky-tacky correction back to the ticky-tacky. Zach, any final thoughts here on AI before...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We all leave to go to our, you know, Trump celebrations and or, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
There it is, folks. The banana republic. I can still be friends with you guys. All right, everybody. Four. Who's you guys? Oh, you guys. I was talking to those guys. All right. Four chamaths. Two missing buttons. We'd like to encourage everybody to enjoy their summer. Three buttons are coming. I got my short shorts on. Oh, God, that's so pasty white. I got to get my sunglasses.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The over under on when Chamath goes for the third button is June 25th. So June 25th in the betting markets right now for the third button. Love you guys. We'll see you all next time on the World's Greatest Podcast. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Okay, last year at the All In Summit, we had a wonderful talk by Jenny Just, and they have a very cool program called Power Poker. They're holding a 2024 summer bootcamp and tournament for women only. So for the ladies out there, if you want to learn how to play poker, just like the besties and Jenny Just, You can join this four-week training class, get unlimited playing time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You play in a tournament. I'm going to come and play in one of the sessions. But here's the great part. We donated a ticket because we think it's worth encouraging women to join the poker community. And so there's a $7,500 all-in Summit 2024 ticket at stake. There's only 80 spots. Go ahead and join at pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp. pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's gonna fill up quick. I know a number of the women who work at my venture firm launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again, 80 spots. I think they charge 100 bucks just to make sure you show up and there's an all in summit ticket there for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search all in podcast and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post and we're gonna do a party In Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers, so look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for theallinpodcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. Three, two. Okay, everybody. Follow Saks at x.com slash davidsaks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And check out Saks' slack killer, Glue, at glue.ai. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups. Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc., allinpodcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to athenawow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy, J-Cow, athenawow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of great follow up questions. I would love to interview Trump. I'll ask him more questions. I'll respect him as president 45 and as a candidate. So for people who like are like you have Trump derangement syndrome, like that's just like a childish thing to say. I disagree with his policies. I'll ask him questions. Hey, why don't you support EVs?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's a valid question to ask him. Why is he anti-EV? He said all these crazy things about EVs, and then apparently he's courting you on privately. I don't know if that's true or not. But there's hard questions, and I'm sure he'll answer them. And he's more than capable of doing it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'd love to have him on. And for me, I'll be totally honest, I think the Democrats have to wake up for a second and just take the temperature of the room. Read the room, Democrats. you have put up a candidate that nobody wants. His policies on the border and some other issues are not, you know, in sync with the majority of the country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
At some point, the Democrats just have to take a deep look in the mirror. James Carville is doing it, a bunch of them are doing it, and say, we fielded a bad candidate who's too old and people don't believe will stand up to scrutiny of, like, say, being on the all-in pod for two hours or in the debates or with a hostile interviewer, any of those possibilities. And so, I think if that's the case,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We really need to have the Democrats think deeply about maybe fielding a different candidate. I believe that's what's going to happen in the next 30 to 60 days.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I mean, if you just look at the polls, it's 100% there'll be a switcheroo. Who's the switcheroo? I have no idea. It could be Gavin. It could be anybody. Anything's possible. I think Trump's going to demolish him in the debate. I think he'll sink to 30% in the polls, and then the Democrats will find a way to give him a graceful out, and then they'll field somebody else.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Welcome to the stand, Judge David Sacks. Hot water burn baby.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Never too late. I'm telling him to do it. Don't take Sachs' advice. He is a hardcore partisan who wants to win desperately. Take J. Kyle's advice. Field another candidate. The worst thing the Republicans could ever deal with is a great candidate who can speak and who's nimble on their feet because I think people are looking for a choice that's not these two individuals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'm not going to say I'm anti-Trump. I'm not going to say I'm anti-Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
All right, everybody, welcome back to the All In podcast. We've got an incredible crew today. Don't forget to go to our YouTube, blah, blah, blah, subscribe. And make sure you check out Freeberg's surprise drop with his hero, Ray Dalio, live on all platforms today. How did that come about? Freeberg, a little surprise drop.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And then there's a bunch of debate on whether they stole, which is kind of rich coming from OpenAI, which got caught red-handed stealing everybody else's content. And now they're crying foul that the Chinese stole or trained, did what's called distillation of their model in order to build theirs. Sax, obviously, you are the czar of AI. I'm curious what your take on all this is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And thanks for coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Give everybody a little overview of cloud kitchens and the business and how it's going, because people are obviously addicted to ordering food at home. And it's quite a trend.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
It's- A billion dollar number might include all the hardware they bought the years of putting into it, a holistic number, as opposed to the training number.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Constraint makes for great art. What do you think, Friedberg, when you're looking at this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Well, and the cloud provider is hosting R1 now. So they're literally undercutting
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, Microsoft is hosting their version of R1, which means they are actively subverting their partner, OpenAI, and pushing people to a cheaper model.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, but if it was stolen and the IP was stolen, as Sam is claiming, that would be like, you'd think he'd be able to call up Satya and say, hey, can you not put the stolen IP on your server and promote it to everybody at a lower cost? It just shows Microsoft has no loyalty to open AI. Yeah. But you'd think they would have loyalty.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Oh, they did actually came out and said they blocked some suspicious activity recently.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
In the Financial Times, it says, OpenAI says it has found evidence that Chinese artificial intelligence startup DC used the US company's proprietary models to train its own open source competitor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I think the best part of this is the fact that Sam Altman was supposed to be doing open source. He made it a closed source company. He stole everybody's data. He got caught red-handed. He's being sued by the New York Times for all that. And now the Chinese have come and open sourced all the stuff he stole, and he's got a real competitor on the original mission of what OpenAI was supposed to do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
So I have zero sympathy for him or the team over there. I'm glad that this is all going open source. It should have been open source and it's better for humanity. And the fact that the Chinese did it to Sam Waltman has come up and it's for him stealing everybody else's content. That's my point. Okay. But I don't have strong opinions on it. It's hilarious. Does nobody see the irony in this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
He was supposed to be doing open source for the good of humanity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Because this is all going to become storage. It's like YouTube being built on top of storage or Uber being built on top of GPS. All these innovations are being commoditized and this one is happening faster than all the rest. Do you want to be in the storage business or do you want to be in the YouTube business? Do you want to be in the Uber business or do you want to be in the GPS chip business?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I mean, they're both decent businesses, but Gavin Baker came on this podcast and said this, the fastest deprecating asset in the world was a large language model. He's been proven right. They're not worth anything. They're all going to be open source. They're all going to be commoditized. And that's for the best of humanity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And now we're going to be on the application level, the hardware level with robots. And I think that's where the opportunity is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Anybody have any other questions for Sacks before we drop him off to go back to serving the American people? Before we drop him off.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Oh, they stole it. They stole it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
It's like, that's only the people who worked for Sam previously and quit who feel that way.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
It could be both, right? I mean, there is a theory that they're trying to undercut and neuter the lead. And at the same time, there's a bunch of people who believe in open source and nobody should control this. And certainly not Sam Altman should be the person who controls it. So two things could be true at the same time. David, thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And thank you for all your hard work and service.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Thank you, David.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
You're a scholar and a gentleman, David. Yes. Thank you. All right. Thanks to David Sachs for coming in. And, you know, I guess let's open up the aperture here and talk a little bit about relations with China. We're obviously in a bit of a cold war with them. We have tariffs. We have Taiwan. And then we have the sort of trade war going on here with exports of H-100s.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Where do we want to start, gentlemen? And, you know, Travis, you've got some deep, you're one of probably five American entrepreneurs who ran an at-scale business with Uber and the DD relationship in China. So you have a unique position of understanding business in this, along with maybe Tim Cook and Elon are the only other two people who've really had an at-scale business there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Maybe Disney, they have Disneyland there. Yeah. What's your take on the relationship and what's going on here geopolitically?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
What's an example of something really innovative they're doing?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, here's a look at these smart lockers that you can see. You're just available for sale when you go online. But yeah, these things are crazy. And you've experimented with those as well. Didn't you have like a commissary concept in DTLA?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
What do we think of the export controls here? Should we, Chamath, be maybe banning more H100s or other chipsets going there, or is that futile?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And let's talk a little bit about OpenAI. They're in Washington asking for money now. Is that the concept now? Is that our government should back?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
This is the key point, I think, Freiburg, is that you're not going to get an advantage by having more H100s at a certain point. And the actual advantage is going to be in the IP and owning content.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And the really smart thing to do would be for somebody to go buy Reddit, Quora, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and Disney, and take all that IP, and then not allow other people to use it, sue the hell out of them every time they try.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
But I'll say it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Well, whatever. I mean, all those archives are definitely going to be – what would be great about those is you could then, like a patent troll, then tell anybody else who's absorbed New York Times stories historically or Disney IP historically and you could just sue the hell out of them and then you've got the best – most proprietary one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
But they don't have the right to do it. Well, they do actually.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I just got offered $2,500 to put Angel, my book, into because HarperCollins did a deal with Microsoft. $2,500 per year? I think it's for three years is the license. And they just did this blanket license for every book. They didn't look at your sales. They didn't look at how desirable it was. It was just like a blanket deal. Everybody gets $2,500 per book. for three years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And I think I'm going to just do it just to support proper licensing so that people can start going down this path. But let's get into Doge. It's been a I think we're in 10 days into this administration. And Trump formally established Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency in an executive order. Apparently, Elon's been spending a lot of time at the offices Bunch of wins.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Doge is claiming on the interwebs to be saving American taxpayers around a billion dollars a day. That's $3 for every American every day, about $1,000 a year in savings for each U.S. citizen. And they claim they can triple this. And so for Family Five, that'd be about $15,000 a year, maybe $60,000 during Trump's second term. We've got $36 trillion in debt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Have fun with some numbers there if you like. But the key announcement was a very similar to the Twitter execution, the ability for people to resign done in a very kind way. Eight months of severance-ish is being offered to federal workers. They expect 5% to 10% of federal workers to take this buyout. And it's... I mean, this could be something like $100 billion in savings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Eight months of severance is not actually a legal concept that you can do. So these are some sort of buyouts. And there's obviously some hand wringing about it. But I think they're off to a good start.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
They've also been canceling leases, as we talked about, you know, pre election, there is so much space not being used, that the federal government is terminating a ton of stuff they own and going to sell it and consolidating folks. And at the same time, All of this is happening. Everybody has to return to office. Who wants to go first here with, you know, the sort of first 10 days of Doge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I see some eggplant emojis in the group chat. First 10 days of Doge, how excited are you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I'm adding you right now. Yeah, how are you not in the group chat? Get in the group chat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Literally every time one of these hits the group chat, it's just hilarious.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
We're not burning taxpayer dollars. And the eggplant always comes from Freebird first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
So Freebark, tell us about how much eggplant you love this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, some friction could slow things down. They're talking about putting competency tests in. They're talking about giving people reviews. And maybe they have to hit some standards. And the gentleman's riff. I mean, when you force people to come back to the office, you're going to lose 5%, 10% of people. And 10% take the buyout. And now, all of a sudden, we're saving things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
The interesting thing about those leases, I was talking to the team at Density, which does people counting and building, so they obviously are very interested in that. The government is such a reliable...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Client that they're all on one-year leases. So people don't, you know, do what they do at startups, which is force them to do five or 10 years because they know, hey, this company could go out of business. They're just like, yeah, yeah, we're just on a rolling year over year lease. So you can actually just cut these. It's going to flood the market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Chamath, your thoughts on also the stopping of, because they're obviously going for it. They stopped all payments, which is a part of the playbook. I saw a Twitter up close and personal. Which is, hey, let's turn off subscriptions and see, you know, if anybody's using these subscriptions, basically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Obviously a judge got involved in that, but aid going to other countries, you know, we're just starting to look at what are we actually sending to other countries and for what purpose? And then there's a naming and shaming and maybe appealing to the public through social media and saying, hey, do you want this money going here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
When, hey, we have tragedies in our own country that need to be solved. We have healthcare, we have houses burned down, we have infrastructure. And so maybe you could talk a little bit about hearts and minds and winning those and what your general take is so far.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, and I think this is the popular support for this is pretty incredible. I'll just go through a couple of numbers with you. You know, looking at what people agree with that Trump's doing early on and what they disagree with.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
know obviously we talked about it last week chamath pardoning the january 6 protesters and you know ending requirements for government employees to report gifts that's sort of like the supreme court thing these are tremendously unpopular and then if you go and you look at downsizing the federal government and imposing a hiring freeze and requiring all federal employees to return to an office.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
These are incredibly popular. And Elon tweeted these graphs out as well. So right now, you have Trump at the apex of his political popularity. And you have these issues specifically in a very polarized... time as incredibly popular. He's also done an incredible job with the border. That's another consensus based issue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, it's pretty close, Chamath, right? You can do that, authenticate your Apple Health.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
So Trump now has downsizing the government and controlling immigration and getting rid of violent immigrants as incredibly popular parts of his mandate. And that's the big win for him. If you look at his popularity, Trump is massively more popular than he was the first time around. He's at 49% compared to last time, 44%. He's still the historically least popular president ever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
So my point in all of this is, when you see Trump doing things like his meme coin, or taking on Pete Buttigieg today, all that kind of Trump 1.0 negativity, grifting, that's the stuff that's going to derail this. But the stuff that's not going to derail it is focusing on the Trump 2.0 agenda.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And that is, as somebody who was a never-Trumper, as you all know in the audience, and now somebody who is supporting him relentlessly, That margin, that extra 10% of people who support him right now is me and other folks who are looking at the people who put around him. He has to stay with the 2.0 agenda as hard as it is and stay away from the Steve Bannon agenda and the grifting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Those are the things that will take this all apart. So that's my appeal to them. I told everybody I'd give a letter grade. I give him a B so far. could do better, but pretty good. Less of the meme coin, less of the, you know, we have to make sure that we're not dragging dishwashers and teachers and people who've been here 20 years out of the country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And it's going to be a very deft, important approach here if this is going to be sustained. And I think it's a coin toss if he will be able to maintain his popularity. And what he did today with this, like, I don't know if you saw the Pete Buttigieg, he was attacking him over this tragedy. That's the kind of stuff people don't want. Less of that, please. More of the doge. That's my little rant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
What do you think about regulation in this regard? Because obviously there was the cruise control. you know, a person got hit by a regular car, they dragged it, the whole thing imploded. We had at Uber the tragedy in Arizona where somebody was playing Candy Crush when they were a safety driver.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
You know, what is your outlook on this stuff rolls out and somebody gets hurt and then, you know, tens of thousands of cities that you brought Uber to, how receptive are they going to be towards this? And what do you think the regulatory framework will be like?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
What do you think about BYD? And like you sort of mentioned, everybody getting to autonomy at the same time. Obviously, Waymo's got the biggest lead. Tesla's behind them. BYD and about 10 other providers are out there doing this. Do 10 players get there at the same time? And then it's just who can incorporate these into their network?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And what do you think of the strategy that Uber's doing of, hey, we've got these eight partners. We'll take everybody into the network. And we'll manage people vomiting the back of cars, cleaning them, and charging them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Makes total sense. And if you want to see what happens when you have like unlimited land, if you live in Austin and you see the distance between San Antonio, Houston and Dallas and Austin in that triangle, you know, you get 30 minutes outside of the city centers. There's just unlimited land and there's less regulation. And you know what's happened?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Housing prices and rents have come down two or three years in a row. So this could happen in other major cities. And if Doge has less regulation, you can build more. It could be amazing for Americans to actually be able to afford homes again and And maybe convert some of this space.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
The Fed held rates. They're getting close to the goal of 2%. I guess we're at 2.4%, 2.9% in terms of inflation. Any thoughts on where we're at with the Fed deciding to not cut? You put it on the docket here, Chamath. Any wider thoughts there?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, this is the naming and shaming of government waste that's actually going to work. And the Doge account on Twitter is doing it. They're basically saying, hey, we're giving foreign aid for this project, for that project. Is it going to be perfect every time? No. But you show an empty office space. You show people not coming to work. You show people wasting money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
There's going to be a bunch of back and forth here. But overall, if you keep naming and shaming each of these projects, and then they were talking about blockchain or whatever, and supposedly there's a report Elon is at the government building working on leases at the moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Like this stuff is going to be extraordinary popular because you can just take the number of 330 million Americans and whatever you just saved, you can just divide it by that number and tell every American how much they just paid less in taxes or how much they just saved individually. The naming, shaming and doing the back of the envelope math for every American is going to work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Do we want to wrap maybe a little bit on this tragedy? Okay. What are your thoughts? We were talking with our friend Sky Dayton, who is very involved in aviation, and he's got a lot of blog posts he's done recently, and he's got a company he invested in to do pilot training.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Awesome. Well done. And we are super delighted to have in the red throne, Travis Cowan. He is the co-founder and CEO of Cloud Kitchens. He also worked in the cab business for a little bit, co-founder and former CEO of Uber. And, yeah, we had a great interview at the All In Summit last year, and he's back up from his media hiatus. He's been in the lab working on Cloud Kitchens.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I think it was 15, yeah. It's looking like pilot error here. There also seems to be some question of why these Apaches are flying around this really crowded airspace. And it seems like they're shuttling, you know, politicians around. And maybe that's not the best idea in this really dense area, as your pilot friend was referring to Chamath. So...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
God, thoughts and prayers and all that stuff for the families of the people who died. It's just terrible tragedy. Terrible tragedy. Yeah. This is an area to invest money and use the private sector and all this incredible innovation that's available to upgrade these systems and infrastructure. This has been another amazing episode of the All In Podcast. Thanks, Travis, for joining us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Thank you, TK. Thanks to Lazar for coming in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Come back anytime. You were great, man. You were great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Appreciate it. Very based. It's going to like it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And we'll see you all next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Oh, welcome back to the show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Do you have an office?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Somebody was talking about there's a building next to it or something. I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
How are you doing, brother?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
That's awesome. It's like being in a movie or something or a TV show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Any interesting meetings you can talk about? I mean, I know we are here today to talk about Deep Seek, but any interesting meetings or anecdotes from just the vibes and walking around? What's the coffee like? Is there like a commissary? You run into anybody interesting?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Oh, look forward to it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I look forward to it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I'll wear my MAGA hat. All right. Well, let's get started. You're here because... We have a very specific... He's here because the world is ending, Jason. The Western world is ending. Okay, the Western world is ending, and David Sachs is going to save it. But we had a little bit of a freakout the last week regarding this DeepSeek. If you don't know, that's a Chinese AI startup.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
They released a new language model. It's called R1. And it's on par, basically, with some of the best models in production in the West, like OpenAI's O1 model. But they claim... And listen, you can trust claims coming out of China. you know, for what it's worth. They claim to have done this all for $6 million on only 2,000 GPUs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
For comparison, OpenAI spent reportedly $80, $100 million to train GPT-4, which you're all using now. And SAM claims they're going to spend a billion dollars training GPT-5. And so that's about 7% of the cost of GPT-4. Obviously, there are export restrictions on NVIDIA H100s to China. So there's a big debate as to if they actually have H1s or not. And Monday was a bloodbath in the stock market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, finally, somebody has recognized my contribution. The greatness of J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
NVIDIA had the worst day in the history of the stock market in terms of total dollar amount of market cap lost. It was down 17%, which is $600 billion. TSMC was down. ARM was down. Broadcom was down. So I guess everybody's asking the question, how did they do this? Did they do it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Welcome back to the all in podcast, the number one business technology and political podcast in the world. I am your host, Jay Cal, Jason Calacanis. And with us today, three of my besties. You got David Friedberg cackling over there. He is your sultan of science, previously known as the queen of quinoa, but he sold the quinoa business, made a killing in quinoa.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And you were the co-founder or the founder of LinkedIn? I don't know if you had a co-founder.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What is your take on IP in this new era? We see OpenAI, and you're not on the OpenAI board anymore, right? So you're independent of that, even though you made a big donation at some point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So you're an investor in it, and you donated to it. Actually, let's start there. What's up with that? corporate structure. How do we make sense of that? Something's a nonprofit, you donated to it, and then you invested in it, and everybody's making money and selling in secondary at $100 billion. How does that work in the world?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Co-founder of LinkedIn, now owned by Microsoft. He's got his own podcast, Masters of Scale. And he and David Sachs work together at PayPal. Welcome to the program. And give us a little story. What is your fondest memory or the most quirky memory? David Sachs and all those weirdos. I'm sorry. I'm not supposed to use the word weird anymore. I get banned on X.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
All of those unique personalities at PayPal. Tell us about that moment in time. And do you remember the first time you met David Sacks?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Okay, so let's get into some political stuff. First, I want to get the IP question, then I want to talk about Lina Khan. So how do you think about IP in this, you know, briefly in this new world? OpenAI and New York Times can't come to terms. New York Times caught them red-handed, cookie jar, according to their lawsuit, having indexed a ton of their content.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's pretty crystal clear that their content's behind a paywall, and that's how they make money. I also subscribe to ChatGPT. I give them 20 bucks a month, maybe 30 bucks a month for every employee in my firm. And I get New York Times content from there all the time. I will ask it, what is the wire cut I think is the best choice in chat GPT? I get that. And then I get the answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I don't need my New York Times subscription. I don't visit the New York Times anymore. Feels pretty clear cut to me. But how do you think about IP? Should an LLM be able to ingest whatever they please? Or should they be required to get permission in advance and pay a royalty to content creators? Reid Hoffman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's a pretty messy subject, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Great pivot, Chamath, into Lena Kahn. I think one of the things that is quite paradoxical about your relationship with David Sachs is you both agree on something in politics, which is Lena Kahn, And her concepts around future competition and maybe how she's running this issue for the United States is leading to basically a freeze on the market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
We're seeing weird deal structures like some of the ones we're talking about here that could have just been acquisitions. And I'm curious your thoughts on What she, you know, this sort of breakup of Google, now we're seeing that emerge at the same time that they're facing the biggest existential crisis of their career, which is language models competing with them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I mean, I would say half of my Google searches have already moved to chat GPT-like services. So what's your take on Lena Kahn's approach to M&A? And what impact, if it's continued and sustained, will that have on capital allocation? Because I don't know what happened to the single and double M&A market, but it seems to be completely gone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Everything from Adobe and Figma to other mergers that could be happening are essentially frozen. So what's your take?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I saw you on CNN where they were like, are you telling Kamala and Biden what they have to do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tesla is now over 500 billion, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I saw you, I think it was a Jake Tapper who kind of grilled you on it. I thought you did an exceptional job of just saying, listen, I made a donation. This is how I feel about it. But obviously, she's going to do what she wants to do. And that's just how politics works. So I thought that was actually pretty well done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I actually appreciate you fighting for more M&A because it would be great for the industry. Zach, you want to throw up a political topic here or you want me to- Well, no, just to stick on Lena Kahn for a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
David, tell us your first memory of meeting Reid Hoffman. Would you remember where you were? Do you remember the conversation?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah. In Europe now, you can.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Also with us back from Italy, back from Italy, Chamath Palihapitiya. He's at 67% button. And he's not happy about it. But the hair looks great. You still got a little sea salt from the yachting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What were you like, 28, 27, 29? No, I mean, let's see. This would have been-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
More stylish. They're prettier. I kind of like your approach, though, with the App Store. If you were to think of least harm to the ecosystem, Epic Games has their own App Store for games. They charge 88%. I'm sorry, they give developers 88%. They only take 12. And forcing Apple to allow a startup to do an App Store would solve the entire problem. And it seems like that's where it's going to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And all five of us would invest instantly in an App Store that would say 0%. take rate, and all advertising based. What a great idea that would be.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tell us like a moment read that is incredibly memorable to you from that PayPal era, you know, some existential moment or one of the more difficult or funny moments, late night moments that would be indicative of that era and whatever was in the water that drew all that talent to one place.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Right. Well, okay. That's a good segue. Right. Let's talk about the five cases against Trump. There are five lawsuits against Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What did you think of Kamala's handling of that issue in her speech? She basically... seemed to, I don't know, say both sides of it, but she said, hey, you can believe that the people of Gaza should be treated more humanely and that, you know, Israel has a right to defend herself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's disqualifying for me, for sure. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I think we got your position on it. It's stupid. I want to finish.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah, I mean, deporting 10 million people would be an example on the right, and taking away a woman's right to choose would be the other one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, no, but I'm talking about him already doing it. He already overturned what he would. I'm talking about that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah, no, it's a state issue. And Trump succeeded in taking away a woman's right to choose in Texas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Well, I mean, he is decisive, that's for sure. All right, well, let's get into it. We want, you know, we're going to go a little bit mullet here, Friedberg. We're going to start with business and then maybe we'll have a...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Do you think she's a moderate or do you think she's a socialist, you know, going to take the country very far left?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Did you bring any of the sea salt back with you from the Mediterranean? Put it in a little bottle to spray or no?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, yes, the legendary Antonio's Nuthouse.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Well, let me ask you about that formally here. There are five cases against Trump You have the insurrection case. You have the New York taxes case. You have the hush money case. You have the E. Jean Carroll case. And what am I missing there? Oh, and the documents case. You funded, like Peter Thiel funded the Gawker case, the E. Jean Carroll case, which Trump lost.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
He got whacked at the Nuthouse? Were the pool tables in the back he whacked at or in the books in the front?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And just to ask you, why did you choose to fund that? And do you believe Trump sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So there are four other trials.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Okay, so Reid, there's four other cases, two of them Trump's been convicted in, two of them are outstanding. What's your take on the four cases? You've heard Sachs' take.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
There's three. Alvin Bragg was convicted. And then the Trump organization with the CFO committing tax fraud. He was convicted in that one as well. Or the Trump organization was convicted. And people say that's lawfare by Letitia James. So guilty, guilty, guilty in those three of five. So what's your take on the four that we haven't discussed yet and heard your opinion on Hoffman?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Antonio's Dunn House is, yeah, the most unhygienic bar in the Bay Area. And then that's a pretty low benchmark. Let's just leave it at that. We'll start with some business here, talk a little AI. And then since two of our panelists have a passion We'll do the party, political parties, at the end.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Everybody knows Reid was a co-founder of Inflection AI and as a general partner at Greylock and one of the founding investors also in OpenAI. There's a good story there, I'm sure. And we just got results, Reid, from NVIDIA. Results were good. They beat across the board. Stock was down after hours. Analysts said probably profit-taking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Hey, Bobby Kennedy is here. Mr. Kennedy, it's great to have you on the all-in podcast for a second time. May I introduce you to Reid Hoffman, who you may know of, but I don't think you two have ever met.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Mr. Kennedy, you dropped out of the race. Perhaps you could tell us, and I was quite disappointed about it. I really wanted to see a third-party candidate get into double digits again. I just want to commend you on the effort that you put into it. Maybe you could tell the audience why you, as a reported never-Trumper, joined the Trump team and dropped out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, okay. Great. And have you showered in the last week or is it still, you got the Mediterranean glove?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Putting that aside, we've never seen a chart like this in the history of business, I would say. Data center revenue, 26.3 billion, 87% of their revenue now. You remember NVIDIA started obviously with video games and didn't have a major data center business. That has exploded. Net income, 16.6 billion. Gross margin, 75%. And here's your chart.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
On a total basis, NVIDIA's revenue scale up is basically unlike anything we've seen. But if you look, their quarter-over-quarter revenue over the past couple of years, things are starting to cool off significantly after that giant boom. Bree, what's your take on NVIDIA's just incredible run here? Is it sustainable? Will they have competitors?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So, Bobby, let me ask you a question. You are reportedly a never-Trumper. There's massive fallout you cited personally for you as a resident of Malibu, the extremely talented woman you're married to. Based on everything I can tell, maybe not a fan of Trump, so this is maybe causing some domestic and some local town issues for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tell me about your journey from a never-Trumper, all your friends are, I think, never-Trumpers, to now joining with Trump. That's gotta be a hard decision, no?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And do you think this build-out, this massive build-out we're seeing from startups to sovereigns to Microsoft, which you're on the board of, Google, Apple, et cetera, is this sustainable and is this going to keep going?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
See, that's the problem. You were showering in the Mediterranean.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Clearly, it's definitely a challenging thing to go from your family being the bedrock of the Democratic Party and Trump being obviously seen as an existential risk by the Democratic Party. So what should Americans know about the state of politics and fairness in America based on what you've learned? What do you want the American people to know about the process of selecting a president?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What should parents know about your thoughts on how to raise kids in a healthy way, make America healthy again? Are there any vaccines that you would say you would advise parents to take for their kids? And how should they look at the industrial food complex? If you were sitting with us as parents, just having lunch, what would you tell us we should do with our own kids?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
R.J.R. Nabisco, you're referring to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Freeberg, when you hear this, some people might say, this sounds like a grand conspiracy theory. But Much of it rings true to, I think, many of us who are parents watching kids, you know, and watching the prevalence of obesity, watching pharmaceutical drugs to counter that and all the money that's made from it. And then seeing when people eat clean and they're healthy, maybe there's less there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So, Freeberg, when you hear Bobby's position here as a scientist who sold a company to Monsanto, climate.com, and who's working on food today. What rings true about what Bobby's saying and what do you disagree with, if anything?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So yeah, there's growth left, competition is coming. And this is probably not the type of stock you would want to short at this moment in time. Freeberg, what are your thoughts on this build out, as well as the software build out that's occurring? And when do you think we're going to see some competition come into the space?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I'm talking about in government and private industry. You don't think people in private industry are trying to make addicting foods?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I think this is the key point you're making, Chamath. I think your clean food effort, and it took me a decade to unravel me eating everything in sight and lose the 40 pounds.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
But Chamath, when you hear sort of this back and forth between Bobby and Friedberg, what's your take on it in terms of, and also the European lifestyle that you live for 10 weeks of the year, what's your take on what should happen here and how Bobby can be successful? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I'm curious what you think of Ozempic and this category of drugs breaking the cycle. I think you've been against them or they certainly helped me with half of my weight loss. I know Saks had a good experience as well and he's been public about it. What are your thoughts on that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Because it does seem when people take the GLPs, which exist in your body, that they, I'm sure there's more research that needs to be done, they do break this habit. I know anecdotally with me, I don't crave the foods I craved previously, and it did kind of rewire my brain in how I look at food, even when I'm off of it. So your thoughts on those and those potentially being a way to break the cycle?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Sacks, any questions for you for Bobby about democracy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
went down with biden the fairness of the democratic party i know you've got some strong feelings on it so i just want to give you your red meat in your window here i'm sure a lot of it's confirming for you what he's saying um and you know i'll be honest i think what the democratic party did to you mr kennedy was absolutely abhorrent and disgusting and it it really is um infuriating to me especially what the mainstream media did
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I'm glad that we got to have you on early on our podcast, at least to let some of your ideas get out there. But let's give Sachs this red meat here because you joining Trump is a wild card. I don't think any of us saw it coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
You said God Almighty.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It would be great if you could get to him because, you know, he really did present well on this podcast and had like a very good moment in that first half of the RNC. And then he started defaulting back to, and I know a lot of it's like myself, hate this about him. And it's a big part of why we don't like him is he goes back to incel comics, goes back to race, goes back to gender.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And it's just like, dude, we that Trump 1.0 is what people don't want. They don't want chaotic Trump. They want, you know, post assassination attempt Trump. And it's just so infuriating.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Good news is I'm in Texas, so I can put in my Bobby Kennedy vote as a protest vote and it doesn't make a difference.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Anyway, that's... Well, I mean, Kamala and Waltz will do an interview with Dana Bash tonight, the night we're taping this on Thursday. So we'll see. Maybe she'll miraculously do 10 podcasts and she'll be dynamic. But it certainly doesn't look good that they filibustered with Biden and gave him only most favored nation interviews.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I do respect the fact that we've had so many great candidates come on this pod and have 90-minute, two-hour discussions. I'm very proud of the work we've done here. And Bobby, you were a key piece of that. And we really appreciate you coming on early and having these debates and coming here today to talk about it. Just...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
means the world for you to come back and talk about this wish you great success with make america healthy again i think it's incredibly noble independent of how i feel about trump january 6th abortion any of those issues i respect the fact that you want to make america healthy again uh and i wish you great continued success with that and we will see you all next time on the podcast bye
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And now, the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles, September 8th, 9th, and 10th. You can apply for tickets, summit.allinpodcast.co. And you can subscribe to this show on YouTube. Yes, watch all the videos. Our YouTube channel has passed 500,000 subscribers. Shout out to Donnie from Queens. Follow the show, x.com slash the all-in pod. TikTok, the all-in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Instagram, the all-in pod. LinkedIn, search for all-in podcast. And to follow Chamath, he's x.com slash Chamath. Sign up for his weekly email. What I read this week at chamath.substack.com and sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and see what all the excitement is about. Follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs and sign up for Glue at glue.ai. Follow Friedberg, x.com slash friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. I am the world's greatest moderator, Jason Calacanis. If you are a founder and you want to come to my accelerators and my programs, founder.university, launch.close.apply to apply for funding from your boy, JCal, for your startup. And check out athenowow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
This is the company I am most excited about at the moment, athenowow.com, to get a virtual assistant for about $3,000 a month. I have two of them. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. You can help by telling just two friends. That's all I ask. Forward. this podcast to two friends and say, this is the world's greatest podcast. You got to check it out. It'll make you smarter.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It'll make you laugh, laugh while learning. We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What do you think about the open source movement versus closed source? You were one of the original donators to OpenAI. You were originally on the board. And there's a couple of ways to go with this question, but I just want to start with Forget about the corporate structure over there. We'll get to that in a second. But I want to talk specifically about open source.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Meta's obviously far behind OpenAI, far behind Google, Microsoft. So they went open source. When you're behind, you go open source, I guess is the idea here. But they're making some big progress. Who do you think is going to win this ultimately? An open source provider of LLMs or proprietary closed source like OpenAI is? And it's confounding to say OpenAI is closed, but closed AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Back in business mode. He's in business casual mode. He went from casual... To business. Okay. And with us, of course, the Dark Knight himself. Yeah, the Rain Man, David Sachs. And we have a bestie guestie for you folks. Friend of my other pod, This Week in Startups, Reid Hoffman is here. And you know him as a venture capitalist board member at Microsoft.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Not this specific thing. I think that when you see... a broad-based set of revenue misses, that that will kind of mean that the consumer is really under pressure. I still think that that's more in the fall, but we're headed in that direction. I think what happened here is that the market is just priced to perfection, and all of a sudden, we had all kinds of volatility.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You had the former president almost assassinated. You have the current sitting president resign. You have a somewhat convoluted process to pick who replaced him that at a minimum was opaque. And all of these things create doubt and anxiety in people the people that own financial assets. And so if you saw the volatility index, the VIX, that has spiked.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And so whenever you see that stuff happen, people go risk off, right? And when you go risk off, what do you sell? You sell the things that are deepest in the money where you think that they probably don't have that much more room to run. And that was the MAG7. And so what you actually saw was a huge rotation out of those companies into everything but those seven names.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Hey, did you announce that you've moved to Texas?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I think that that's a pretty reasonable thing to do. So I think we're in the part of the cycle where people are getting a little bit more sober and risk managing. We're also in the middle of the summer where a lot more vacation is taken, which how it manifests is that people tend to be, frankly, more risk off and be more liquid because a lot of people are in and out of the office.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I think the real setup is for what happens in September. Maybe there's a cut, which will help. Maybe there isn't, which won't help. And then the whole consumer cycle, the consumer credit cycle, that doesn't look good, to be honest. And so I think the fall is going to be complicated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I find this so fascinating and reinforces a bunch of intuition that I think we would probably all have. Have you guys seen these studies where when somebody has an amputation or they get paralyzed, they study their
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
three levels of happiness, their interim level of happiness, and then they just kind of mean revert to their natural state of happiness, independent of what physical calamity they may have gone through. And when you were talking about it, Jake, I was reacting in the same way, which is in the absence of, I think, purpose and community, I think children in many cases,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
it just doesn't meaningfully shift any of these curves that really matter. I think your happiness levels mean revert. I think your health levels mean revert. So it's great to kind of confirm at least my intuition, which is that UBI is a wonderful idea that I think doesn't really understand how humans are both motivated and wired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
How is it going so far? It's super hot, isn't it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
But that's totally reasonable. I grew up on welfare. Yeah. And we needed it to make ends meet. And we would have completely fallen through the cracks without it. And so I'm glad that I was able to be raised in a country that has welfare.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
No, because I think you need to be motivated, as Zach said. And so even though we got...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
support from i grew up in canada so the canadian government there was still an expectation where certain things were not covered and you still had to work and so you had to find motivation to pick yourself up and go out and get a job and it just so happened that in our situation even welfare and what my mom made as a housekeeper and then as a nurse to say it wasn't enough and my dad didn't have a job so i went and i started working at burger king and to sax's point
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
It's pretty eye-opening when you're 14 years old and you're working the night shift and people come in after going to the bars, they're drunk, they're puking all over the place. Sometimes you see people that go to your own high school And it's a little bit embarrassing because you're working while they're going out. But at the end of the day, it was very motivating. And I think Sax is right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
If you take that away from people, I think that you end up with a worse society. I don't think that you have a motivated group of people that want to go and better themselves. I think they just become really lazy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I think the problem is not the entry-level job. I think it's the expectation of people. And Freeberg just mentioned this, but what you have is that there is this desired doom loop that we've fallen ourselves into, where what social media does is amplify in many cases, a fake perception of what your neighbor has that you don't have. And so you're in this constant desire doom loop.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So if you go to a job and you're expected to work for four years, I'm just going to make up a number before you get promoted. And the perception is that your neighbor is getting promoted after eight months, you're going to be mad and you're going to be angry and you're going to feel like life isn't working out for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And we have to figure out a way of resetting that back to normal so that you know that that is a lie that is being told to get clicks and likes. And the real truth is you're going to have to just put your nose down and grind at something to get what you want. And life is not perfect and it's complicated and it's messy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The closest thing to leisure and leisurely pursuits that we have today in modern society is the Nepo baby. And if you look at the, no, but, and if you look at the Nepo baby, they're the most miserable group of people I've ever met. They're so unhappy with themselves. And so, and part of it is because they've only ever lived a life. Shout out to Alex Soros. No, I'm not name-checking anyone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I'm just saying when I observe it, I think that you can see it right in front of you, which is that there's just so much inherent unhappiness because you're not motivated to do anything. And then that's amplified typically by... guilty parents because they've been working so hard. I don't think you need to run a second study.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
A different version of an idea that friend of the pod, Brad Gerstner, is working on, which I think deserves a shout out, is this idea of giving every kid when they're born a retirement account. I think that that's a really interesting idea where you give them some amount of money and it just matures inside of an index fund that gets unlocked for you when that kid is 65 or 70 years old.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's great because it helps you have a soft landing in retirement. I think that that's very humane and a right thing to do, but it doesn't rob you of that motivation to work in your 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. And that's a much better idea than UBI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Man, I think probate and wills and trusts are of the devil's making. Nothing good comes out of these things. And I don't know, I just think some of these assets should just be left to shareholders. Just sell them. Or just sell them and take the money, give it to the kids. Hopefully you raise good kids. They can all go and pursue their own path.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Because again, I think the point is like the path and the journey is the fun and these kinds of battles are really brutal. And I'll tell you, to me, the thing that I'm sad when I hear this whole thing is like you have four siblings that I'm guessing grew up together. And now are they ever gonna talk to each other again? Or is it like three versus one or two versus two?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I just think that that's ugly over what? Power and money? If I was the father, I would have sold the asset, given the money to the kids or to charity or whatever. And hopefully they would have found happiness in a different way.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Clearly they didn't.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
it's all coming back together now they just got to get sony to give up i mean we want to talk about interesting ip marvel just sold these characters to the highest better in perpetuity such a crazy weird deal but it's like it's like me saying you know i uh i've collected some really nice belts and so i'm just gonna have like a death match between my five kids to see who gets the best belt
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
No, and it's about being picked. Yes. Imagine if your father picks your sibling and not you. Why would you do that? Yeah. Like, is the asset so important? As Zach said, these are self-managing because business people will make rational business decisions. So put it in the hands of a rational business person. Keep the family intact because if you lose the family, what do you have?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's what I don't get.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I mean, I don't think the process was super open and transparent and Democratic, but I don't think they had much of a choice. And I think we've talked about that because too much of the money would have had to essentially been returned. And I don't think you can fight a federal election in 2024 with one hand tied behind your back. So she was the de facto nominee when the rumor started.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And now I think the whole point is to figure out where does she stand? I think the thing that she will have to overcome is that these last three years, three and a half years, she's been relatively under the radar. MIA, some might say. And I think that now there's this whole controversy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I don't know if you guys have seen this, where she was named the border czar, but then she was not the border czar. And I think there's a mainstream media, it's sort of fighting with itself from six months ago about the whole thing. But the point is that we don't know what she believes, and we don't yet have a sense of her
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
agenda really you know and i think that over these next two months it'll be up to her to really create a very clear case of what she believes in and then it'll be really interesting to see who she picks as her vp candidate and then people i think will be in a position to judge and i think that that's what you know what if i've been kind of like reading the tea leaves from the folks that i've talked to is sort of what they say which is tbd and we need to figure out where she's at
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I actually wonder whether this deal would have had more probability of happening had the whole AT&T snowflake leak not happened. Because I think that when you have moments like this, there's a non-trivial possibility that it supercharges sales even more. I think the reality is that if you're a hyperscaler, so if you're Amazon or Google or Microsoft, your business is pretty fragile and brittle if
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The services you provide or the services that third parties like Snowflake provide through you are not reliable. And so I've never heard of a business that has generated so much ARR so quickly. I mean, from zero to half a billion dollars in four or five years. I mean, how do you even build the product surface area quick enough to capture that much revenue?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So if you look at Trump's VP pick, it's about aligning a philosophy. Donald Trump created the MAGA movement, this populist conservative right-wing movement. And I think J.D. Vance has an opportunity now to carry that torch post-Donald Trump. And that is an ideology that spans states. I think this idea that you pick somebody because they can deliver a state is pretty misguided.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I just don't think that that in reality is what happens. So I think that Kamala has to decide what she stands for and figure out whether she needs somebody on her flank that represents a slightly different set of ideas that will then maximize her appeal or she wants to double down. And then she has to pick somebody that sort of like aligns with her philosophically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And again, I would just say that it's not super clear yet what she thinks. I think that Joe Biden was more of a traditional centrist that had to appeal to the progressive left in order to get his work done. So that kind of makes sense. You can understand it. You don't have to agree with it, but it's pretty obvious. I don't know where she's at politically. So I think that that's the first thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
She needs to explain herself. Is she a centrist? Is she more of a moderate Democrat? Is she more of a progressive Democrat? And then we can then understand who the best person to align her with should be. But if I was in the Democratic kind of like- Star chamber.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, I would kind of try to figure that out first, because I think the Donald Trump pick makes a lot of sense, because it basically moves the Republican Party in a very firm direction. That die is cast for the Republicans for many years to come now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I think it just goes to show you how bad security is in the cloud and how needed it is. So it doesn't surprise me that Google... wouldn't buy something like this. I think Amazon and Microsoft would probably want something like it as well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I'm sorry. Go ahead. What does it solve? What does it accomplish?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I suspect that if you had to guess why they said no, is because they thought that they could grow revenue much faster because of recent events, as well as their own just natural momentum. And I think that if this thing had not happened, I wonder whether they wouldn't have just sold.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You want to set the record straight on Zenefits and just say what happened?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Look, I think that part of what happens in Silicon Valley is that there is these cliques and there's definitely a YC clique and they protect their own in absolute terms. And so I think there's a level of morality that everybody else has to live by. That's not necessarily the rules that apply if you're a YC CEO.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Now, that was accepted in Silicon Valley because in the early days, they were, frankly, one of a very, very small handful of games in town with respect to high-quality deal flow when you started to do Series A, B, and C. And as a result of that, I think venture capitalists essentially looked the other way because the returns were so good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The companies that were coming out of the incubator were so good. But as with all things, when you're successful and you try to scale, returns decay. And this is not a slight on YC's returns, but it's what happens to everybody. So if you look at Blackstone's returns, they were incredible when they started. And they're okay today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
When you look at Sequoia's returns, they were incredible when they started. They're okay today. YC's returns were incredible when they started. They're okay today. And this is nothing against any of these folks. It's that in the business of building an organization and scaling, that's what happens. And when that happens and a lot more competition emerges on the scene,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The old tactics that you used to use to run a protection racket, if you will, just doesn't work anymore. And I think part of what's spilling out in public here is that that kind of immature form of bullying and intimidation is just kind of dumb because it just doesn't hang together anymore. So I don't know. I thought the whole melee, if you will, ruckus, Jason, fracas, fracas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
a clash was more about a guy that was engaged in this, trying to do what he perceived to be the right thing for a YC founder in his community, but probably he just needs to get back to work and do something productive and probably this wouldn't happen the next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Oh, there's a bit coming. Something's breaking in. What's happening?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I can tell you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
He doesn't have enough to do. He's sitting around. He's got a lot of money. I mean, he's been very successful. And as far as I can tell, he's just getting into dust-ups on Twitter and then... There's a lot of amazing people, we all know them, that are so good when they're under pressure, focused and grinding.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And then when you take a little bit of the pressure off, they just go crazy and they don't have enough to do. And it's amplified by money and it's amplified their own perceptions of themselves. So I don't know, maybe you should just go back to work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Power equals AI. You don't think that distributed energy can basically deliver effectively energy at a marginal cost of zero?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
What about carbon based solutions as a fallback?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So the only solution is to rewrite the regulation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
It's important to have a job. Otherwise, everything just goes to pot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
major outages like this? I think the reality is that that code is still really brittle and there's gaping holes everywhere. And I suspect that the reason why foreign adversaries don't hack us is because we could hack them back. And so I think it's almost like a mutually assured destruction is the only reason why these things stay up every day. So at some point, we're going to write better code.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Maybe these AI agents will do it and there won't be like
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
memory leaks and all this other random stuff but in the meantime i think you just have to assume that everybody will get access to all of your information and that eventually everything is hacked and everything is leaked yeah and act accordingly and act accordingly yeah assume every the worst conversation you ever had on social media or on dms is going to come out
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
That's pretty intense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, I've got a totally different take on this. Obviously, I agree with all you've said here in terms of the open source and the dramatic effect it's going to have on pricing. But there's something people are missing. If you go to meta.ai for a second, Nick, and you pull it up, what you'll see is they've dedicated the meta.ai URL to a search-like experience.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And then they've put a search box at the top of Instagram, WhatsApp, and Facebook. And so they are going to put search engine, essentially, their modern search engine, which is starting from zero in front of 3 billion people using Meta's collection of services.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And so just like Apple and Firefox were able to intercept search traffic, I think, and let's make a prediction here, that Meta is going to get 10 points of the search market. Now, each point of the search market is worth, you know, what is Google's worth? About 2 trillion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
This is my tip. It has worked. I'm going to give it out here. And the reason I'm giving this out is because y'all are cheap f***s. Not you, but just a lot of y'all out there. And you don't know the art. In Brooklyn, everybody gets tipped. We tip the phone guy when he comes to fix your phone at your house. Everybody gets tipped. So here's what I would do. And you can do this with a 20.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
If you take out 500 billion for YouTube and their other services, you get 1.5 trillion, which means 10 points is worth 150 billion in market cap. Now, as you well know, Chamath, and you well know, David, these two ad networks, Meta started with psychographic data, the person, who they know. And then, of course, Google had the greatest advertising product ever, Intent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You type in Volvo, you type in Tesla, type in Tesla Santa Monica, used. You don't have to guess what the person is interested in at that moment. Well, for the first time, you know, one of these ad networks has content data and psychographic, and they're going to be able to put it together. And I think they take 10 points of search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But more importantly, they're going to have data on individuals that will be unrivaled in the advertising space. Now, Google tried to do this themselves. They did something called Google+. I don't know if you were there, Freeberg, during the Google Plus era. They spent billions of dollars on a social network. It failed. They shut it down because they wanted to get that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So looking at this, I think, man, there's so much going on on open source. But now Google, and we haven't talked about Google's role in all of this, and Sundar being a hired gun, not having founder authority, to your point, Freeberg, You know, I think they're going after Google search business as well as, you know, taking away and commoditizing all of the open source.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So we might be sitting here in three or four years watching Meta have, I don't know, 10? Nobody has to win in search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You can do it with a 50. You know, if you're going to some great place, you can do it with a 100. You fold it twice, as Chamath says. You put it in your palm. You walk up to the maitre d' stamp. If there's anybody in line, you just cut it. And you go to the side of the table. You put your hand on the maitre d' stand. You push the hand over slightly. Here's the maitre d' stand.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Up next, Tesla earnings. Elon's master plan part two is going well as planned. Again, this was voted up by our panel here in our group chat. Last time we covered Tesla was episode 164, early February after a Delaware judge voided Elon's pay package. Since then, Tesla has made some giant moves. They launched FSD12. I've been using it. It's pretty great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Also, they cut the price of FSD by one-third from $12K to $8K. I think you can also get it for $100 a month. And they announced a 10% RIF. Going to cut 14,000 employees. Always painful to do that. They're looking to reincorporate in Texas, leaving Delaware for obvious reasons. Earlier this week, Tesla shares were down more than 40% year to date, mostly due to a decrease in demand for EVs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Market caps dropped from $750 billion to $460 billion. Shares dropped 12% when they reported Q1 earnings on Tuesday. Investors got excited after Elon announced that Tesla's new line of models could start production at the end of the year, or maybe even early 2025.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
He shared some thoughts on the robo-taxi or cyber-cab, which he talked about maybe five or six years ago, and he has had in the master plan for a long time, Chamath. You made some great calls on Tesla and made some great trades there back in the day. Your thoughts on Tesla in 2024?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You just slide your hand over and you reveal the 50. And you say, I am so sorry. I was supposed to make a reservation. I don't know if my assistant did it or not. She probably didn't. However, I'm a huge fan of the restaurant. If there's anything you could do for me, I made a stupid mistake to not make a reservation. If somebody cancels, I'll be at the bar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, just well recapped. For those who don't know sharps in gambling are people like are all about friend of the pod. who are just the sharpest bettors in gambling. Facistitude, that's an unpleasant change in circumstances for those of you who don't know the word. Sacks, I don't know if you want to comment. I mean, you and I are biased in this with the relationship with Elon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Any thoughts on Chamath's take?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Let me ask a question here. How do you rank These businesses, energy, optimists, trucking, ride sharing, energy, optimists, the robot, trucking, ride hailing. Rank those, your number one or two in terms of potential for Tesla Chima. Round the horn. That's a good question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It used to be 20 when I lived in New York. Now I regularly do 50. And the reason I do it is I don't like giving money to charity. I feel like these charities are all a giant scam. And I like to give it to service people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, this is a long-term question. Based on the long-term, one and two.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
We called it going full Uber. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, you were one of the first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But a robo-taxi... 90%, I think, is the number on average that they're not used. Freebrook, who's your one and two?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's a little harder to hold in your hand. I used to use a roll of quarters, actually. That was awkward. The roll of quarters was a little bit hard. The 50 is easy. I'm just asking everybody here, if you hear my voice, please go tip your maitre d' 20 or 50 and report back if my technique works.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So you're one and two optimist ride share.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamath, what was your number two again? Just so I can recap here. I would actually probably pick energy. And why would you pick energy as your number two after ride handling?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Because what you're doing in the framing is you're saying you made a mistake and then you make it so the person doesn't feel like you're bribing them or paying them off. They're helping you solve a problem. So anyway, it's kind of like when I troll David and I'm like, hey, Freeberg, with the summit, whatever. And he's like, I'll do all the work. Forget about it. You just got to reframe it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I've sold slightly more than the majority of my holdings over the years to private transactions. And then I held everything post going public. And I'm still long Uber. I give number one to Optimus by far and away because I think the build of materials on Optimus could be 10K or less.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I looked at some of these other startups that are in the space and I've been studying it a little bit just out of curiosity. And so at a 10K bomb, I think they could rent you one of these for $300 a month or something like that, a subscription. I think... every human on planet Earth eventually will have a robot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So I know that's crazy, but I think optimists will dwarf the entirety of Tesla's other businesses. Number two is energy, clearly, I think, and number three is ride-hailing. Number two, energy, fairly obvious what's happening here. If you look at what's happening with data centers, it's spiked, I think, from like 3% or 4% of energy now to like, is it 15%, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think we had a discussion with Phil Deutsch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Okay, so we dovetail the two stories together. These H100s are beasts, cooling beasts. This is like, you can't even, Phil Deutsch was telling us in the group chat, you can't even cool some of these places. And what that means is, There's going to be demand for energy. To Chamath's point, if each home becomes a little provider, you know, it's going to create some regulation change.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I believe I'm no expert on the regulations. We should definitely have Deutsche on the pod at some point to talk about this. But imagine these, like in Texas, they keep having the grids go down. And in Australia, they have the grids go down. It's going to be so annoying for consumers to have the grids go down while demand spikes for data centers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All the regulations are going to get opened up to put batteries and solar everywhere. It's also dangerous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All right, let's get started here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. And so I agree a hundred percent. And by the way, if you can make money from your solar and your batteries and somebody else picks up the cost of installation, I think there are some arbitrage here to be had. And I think that's like what you discovered when you did your first principled approach to this. So I think those two businesses will be far bigger than anything else they're doing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Now, on ride hailing, I'm using FSD 12, I have been using autopilot, I was one of the first users of autopilot. You know, from the beginning, like literally, and FSD 12 is a significant improvement. That being said, all of these systems work really well in a controlled grid, like we've seen with Waymo in Arizona and in limited parts of Los Angeles and San Francisco.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think that vision is five, six, seven years out from having low single digit percentages. And you may have seen Uber has incorporated Waymo and the taxis in London into their system. I think Uber is ultimately going to be the place people go to call up one of 20 different self-driving. I think a lot of people are going to get there at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Wouldn't be surprised if Elon gets there first, but I think that's five or 10 years out, if I'm being totally honest, you know, in terms of getting to scale. So I would never ever bet against Elon seeing what he's done. Wait a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. So you can just look at cruise and Waymo, and you can have your answer, which is today, in a contained environment with remote drivers intervening on some regular basis, it works. So people are taking Waymo, San Francisco, LA on a pretty regular basis. Cruise, I think, got kicked out of San Francisco. But in the cruise data, there was a lot of interventions going on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I suspect Waymo's doing a lot of interventions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I'm not promoting that. I'm not promoting this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So anyway, to answer your question, Sax, I think today, or let's just say by the end of this year, an FSD-12 could be operating in a constrained space, just like Waymo is. Now, to get it to all regions, back roads, You know, weather, there's a lot of edge cases here. So I think the more important question is when can automated be 5% of rides or 10% of rides?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And I think that's five or 10 years from now. I do think a couple of people will reach that moment at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, but there's a safety driver watching this remote, I believe, which is what Cruise was doing. And then when they get to a point where they can't figure it out, the human comes in, intervenes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, no, I think they have it already if you drive FSD12. I believe FSD12... probably could be working today in San Francisco under a controlled grid with the remote drivers like the other people have. If somebody knows about this, by the way, can they send us information? I'm Jason at Calacanis.com for life. Just send me a picture. I'll keep it on the DL.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I will reveal sources of who these remote drivers are, what their setup looks like. I'm very curious to understand how the remote drivers work for Waymo and Cruise. Can they park the car? They can take the car with a joystick, is my understanding, and move it around a garbage can in the middle of the street, Jamal. Wow. And that might be the future of this. Like, let's say 10 or 15 percent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Let's say 10 percent of the time it needs an intervention. one an hour to an hour having some remote person in manila wherever watching 10 videos concurrently and looking for moments to do this. It's incredible. Cruise workers intervened to help the company's cars every 2.5 to 5 miles, according to a New York Times article. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Your shift to man of the people... It's a bribe. No, but it's a bribe. It is a bribe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And just if we score everybody's rating here, I give two points for first place, one point for second place. Optimus got six points. Ride Healing, four. Energy, two. Trucking, zero. There you have it, folks. There's your scores from the besties. What is Waymo? What is that? Is that like Uber? That's Google self-driving. They spun it out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
LIDAR, $150,000 cars. Uh-huh. But it competes with Cruise? Yeah, they're doing what Cruise did.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And there's also Aurora. I don't know if Uber owns a percentage of that or not, but I think you know about Aurora.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Ah, I see. Uber owns 26% of Aurora. Or actually now it's down to 20%. There's also Zoox.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. There's also Zoox, which is part of Amazon. So I think there's about... 10 people who are going to get to the finish line at the same time. I think it's going to be a very crowded space.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamath, you're very industrious and you're an absurd tipper, 100% tipper minimum. I know this because when I paid for dinner one time at Carbone, you took me and Phil Hellman's cards and you said, you guys pay and I'm going to put the tip in. And then I had to sell Uber shares to cover it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All right. Let's unpack. You're such a populist. You're so f***ing brilliant. I hate you. He just figures out a way to get those populist votes. No, here's what it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
There are 10 or more pursuing it. I do agree it goes down to four or five. And then it's a question of, is it a winner take all, winner take most? And that's what remains to be seen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, Waymo has the most on the road right now. I think Cruise is second to them in terms of in market. So the question is, how quickly can Elon get this out? Have you guys, any of you guys taken one of these robo taxis? I haven't taken one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Unlikely. I think unlikely. I think it's going to be a very slow rollout, you know, 1% or 2% a year. But, you know, it compounds, and so we'll see. All right, everybody. Is this a big win for Lena Kahn? The FTC just banned non-competes. Three of three people voted this up of the three besties who decided to vote on the docket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Federal Trade Commission this week voted by a three to two margin to ban non-competes to give you a sense of the impact here. Estimated of 18% of the total U.S. workforce are covered in some way by non-competes. 30 million people. The ruling bans agreements entirely and requires companies to let their staff know that non-competes are non-enforceable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I am so confident in how good the service is going to be. I'm giving a pre-tip. I consider it a pre-tip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
There are a few exceptions like existing non-competes for senior level executives. I'm guessing when you buy a company, you can get somebody to non-compete for buying their company. The Democratic FTC Commissioner Rebecca Slaughter called non-competes unfree and unfair.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
One of the dissenting commissioners, Republican Andrew Ferguson, said the FTC lacked authority from Congress to make this ruling without specifying whether or not he agreed with it. Theoretically, the new rule takes effect in 120 days. Wow, we're on a fast timeline. After which, the vast majority of existing non-competes will be unenforceable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Here in California, they're non-enforceable, as we know, except under certain circumstances. So this is really an East Coast thing. People in Boston, New York, they're really affected by this. And people will actually enforce these for things as silly as hairdressers. There was a big lawsuit by hairdressers who had to sign like 50 mile non-competes with their beauty salons. The U.S.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamber of Commerce says it plans to follow suit over the ruling. FTC says the rule will create 8,500 new startups a year because people can leave and compete.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I am happy to not get the money back if they can't accommodate me. One time it happened. The woman at Asia to Cuba in New York in the 90s said, here's your 20 back. And she said, I'm really sorry. There's nothing I can do. I would love it. It's very lovely of you to give me the tip. And she handed it back to me. And I said, keep it. And she said, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yes, there are unintended consequences. Where do you stand on this? Is this a huge win for Lena Kahn neutral, or a loss?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What does it mean, beach leave?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But the bartender is going to take care of you at the bar. So that ends well. All right, let's get started, everybody. We have a full docket for you today. And story of the week, as voted by besties, we have a new system here. Instead of me sorting the docket, the besties give a thumbs up, thumbs down. This one, I think, had two of three people voted for it. One person didn't vote this week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Great film.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think this is great, what Lena Kahn's doing. And this is two for two. I think her Apple action was great. I think this is great. Love to have her at the summit. That would be an amazing fireside chat. So if anybody knows her, invite her to the summit. There really is three-way... Oh, and by the way, Chamath, media business on the East Coast also does this, and that's why...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
friend of the pod, Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon, both of them started shows on the internet, not other networks, because they have very tight non-competes and it's pay to play. They got paid out their full contracts according to reports. And so there is something, I think, in the middle ground here, Chamath, where if you do want somebody to not compete, you got to pay to play.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And that is Zuck's Scorched Earth AI Strategy. As you probably know, if you're in tech, Meta was the first big tech company to fully embrace open source AI. Llama leaked last year. Folks said that it wasn't leaked. It was released covertly or on the slide DL by the folks at Meta. But they just released Lomba 3. And I talked to Sandeep about this a whole bunch last week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
In other words, they're getting paid. But this is what I'm saying.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
That's going to be great for the economy. Sax, you were going to say something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well said. Team, product, brand. These are the ways to build a great business, not legal shenanigans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
18 to 36 months. Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Not everybody. Not everybody. Lewandowski? Was that his name? Lewandowski. Well, that's why it's really stupid. What an idiot. Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Could you imagine if Facebook sued Google to get YouTube? Speaking of startups, this is critically important for founders listening. If you're working at a company, the best practice is if you're going to do a side hustle is to get permission and a waiver from your boss that you're working on that. And get a clean machine. And you got to go on a clean machine. Your machine is being monitored.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Your work machine, I'm telling you right now, is being monitored every step of the way. I had- Well, it's not just monitoring. It's about who owns that IP. It's their property. It's their property. And if you type on it, especially in this work from home era, and anyway, I had a situation, I wouldn't say at which company, where a sales executive
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
left the company, went into the CRM system, downloaded it, and he was so dumb, he had written plans for his next employer on his computer, And then in his corporate email, emailed the database and his plans for the new employer to his Yahoo or Outlook email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They busted him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They dropped a legal letter on him. They put a legal letter on the person who was hiring him. The person who hired him rescinds the offer. Obviously, they don't want some toxic nonsense. And yeah, the person, you know, I have no idea what happened to him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It just came out a few days ago, and it's already in the top two models on Hugging Face's leaderboard. You can take a look at Hugging Face's leaderboard. It's basically where it's the most trusted place, I think, where people benchmark these things. Developers are saying it's faster. It's less preachy, was an observation in chat, GPT-4, despite being slightly lower quality.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
you know please let me know who or something like that it's just a phenomenal email yeah and they they this actually resulted in a bunch of legal action a settlement because i think eric schmidt and steve jobs correct me if i'm wrong producers or there was something between google and apple where they agreed and i think sergey or somebody was yeah sergey got in on this is i don't know if this is legal
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But they didn't want to piss Steve off because it's not the kind of guy you want to piss off because he can execute. And Eric Schmidt was on the board of Apple at the time. There's a very famous picture of them at the Sand Hill Road or Stanford Mall having coffee. And Steve is lit. He's not happy about this. And I think they agreed to not poach a certain level or something like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Oh, there's the famous picture where they were breaking bread. And then Eric Schmidt did Android. Steve felt very betrayed by this. And Eric Schmidt left the board of Apple shortly thereafter because Steve reportedly felt like he was double-crossed. But, you know, all that is speculation. So check your own facts. Do you have any other details on that, Freeberg? Do you remember that case?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It was after your time, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I have three amazing Steve Jobs stories. I'll tell you one of them right now. I was the co-founder of a website called Engadget, which was the largest blog in the world. We wound up selling the collection of those blogs to AOL. I was at a conference. Steve Jobs was there. He seized my badge. says Engadget. He goes, oh, Jason, Engadget, my favorite tech blog in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I read it every day, yada, yada. And I said, oh, that's great. And I said, hey, can I ask you a question? He said, yeah, sure, anything. And we're out there, beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean. And I said, you know, Steve, I have the iPod. I pulled it out of my pocket and it had a color screen. And I said to him, I said, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It seems to me that I could download short video clips like of the Chappelle show. And I use that as an example. And they could sell them to me like you're selling MP3s. And you could just buy like a Chappelle show issue episode. It's a pretty obvious idea. And then I could play it when I'm on the subway or something or got some downtime in a cafe. I could watch the Chappelle show clips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Could you make a video version of this since it's already got the storage and the screen? And he looked at me and said, Jason, do you want to watch a thumbnail size video? I said, yeah, totally fine. He said, all of our research says nobody wants to watch a tiny video like that. It's the worst idea ever. And I had this moment of like self-doubt because he had that reality distortion field.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They also have some small models that are performing really well. They also announced, very interestingly, open sourcing the Quest operating system called MetaHorizons OS. The OS powers the mixed reality headsets, VR, all that kind of stuff, AR. But here's the big news. This one is amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I go back, I tell my guys what he said. Hey, should we write a story about it? And 30 days later, He releases the video and the ability to watch videos on it. He had the greatest poker face ever. It was just an incredible moment. Man, I really miss that guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Come on. These are great. People loved, by the way, the segment when we went on a... When I worked at Winamp, my boss...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Zach, did you ever meet Steve Jobs in person? No. Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, this is a great topic. There is a guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Instagram, Facebook, and WhatsApp are integrating a search box or their AI assistant chat box into all their apps. Worth noting, Meta came out with their results just the other day. And we're taping this on Thursday. As you know, it comes out Friday. Their stock is down as much as 16% after reporting its Q1 earnings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What? Oh, come on. You can't not tell that story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
People loved the story last week when we did our childhood businesses. Hold on. I want to hear the story, Chamath. Come on, Chamath. You give us one more. I'll give you one that's recorded on video.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Good, that's why we want to hear it. Yeah, that's why we want to hear it. Get it out, get it out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I was not a good culture. I would not have been a good cultural fit for that. No, he wanted radicals and Tim Cook wanted, you know, optimizers. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I will, I will save my just to get this. We got to get through two more stories in the doc. And I'm going to leave my other Steve Jobs stories for another time. We got time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They beat estimates, but Zuck is saying he's going to spend a bucket load of cash on infrastructure. Shamath, it's your alma mater. He worked side by side with Zuck, growing Facebook from, what, 10, 20 million to 400 million mows. What do you think of his strategy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's so strong. I mean, I got to give it to you, Jake, all you have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
balls i mean the truth is i traded emails with steve many times he he was with the press he was full contact as you know all right it's time it's time for sax red meat and we've got a double serving for sax sax stands are going to be really happy right now tiktok's divester ban bill has been signed into law senate passed the bill 79 to 18 we've talked about this here over and over and over again
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
President signed it. This thing's on the fast track. Divest or shut down. TikTok bill was packaged, bundled, with $95 billion in foreign aid. $61 billion for the Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. $26.4 billion for Israel and humanitarian aid for civilians in Gaza. And about $8 billion for the Indo-Pacific region, a.k.a. Taiwan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
House added a provision to the bill that required the president to seek a $10 billion repayment from Ukraine's government. Finally, they're talking about the leaseback. We'll see if that ever happens. I'm curious what Sachs thinks there. Last year, CNBC reported that ByteDance was buying back $5 billion worth of stock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And early Thursday morning, it was reported that ByteDance is exploring selling a majority stake in TikTok's U.S. business. Looks like gun to the head is working to a non-tech company without the algorithm. In other words, maybe they sell it to a Walmart, somebody who they don't consider super competitive. I'm not sure who the non-tech company is here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It could be Disney would come to mind as well. And remember, Disney did look at buying Twitter, but they didn't want the toxicity of an open platform. TikTok is obviously heavily scrubbed of anything that is aggressive. You can't show a movie clip with somebody getting attacked violently. It's very PG-13. But this is the key part, Sax. No algorithm in the package deal. Your thoughts on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And you can take it either way you like, because I know your fans want to hear about everything. Do you want to talk about the budget bundling or the TikTok ban and the divestiture, which seems to be happening?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Okay. What are your thoughts on gold chain Zuck? and his new strategy to pivot away from VR to AR, AI, and going full all in, so to speak, on open source.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Oh, no, they proved that data. It's been proved that they spied on journalists.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I spoke to multiple TikTok employees, myself personally, and they told me that the Chinese representatives are all over the company and inside of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
No, my position on banning, thanks for asking, is based on reciprocity and the potential damage it could do and based on how influential and powerful the product is and how they could change sentiment and censorship. And the Chinese government is... Fantastic at censorship and they're doing massive censorship inside the app.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Where is his face though? Isn't he out of there? He's in Monaco or something? He doesn't live there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But you also said on Twitter, you thought this would come to X and to Rumble. You actually think they'll take this to American companies?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
How does it jump to X?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. And the TikTok guy's bought off Trump already, so he's going to fight for it. Freiburg, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They said it's not a tech is the report.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Not a tech company. So that would be Walmart, Disney, you start to get to over... Maybe a media company, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamath Palihapitiya, our chairman dictator. Can't wait to see you at poker tonight. What are your thoughts on this, if any?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think this is a security risk. I've made that clear here before. And I don't think we would ever allow Iran, North Korea... Russia to run any of these companies inside of America, nor would they allow us to run Facebook X, et cetera, in their countries. So I think reciprocity is the key, but I am running a little test right now. I posted this video to my TikTok today, and it's under review.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They won't let it publish. And the video is very simple. It quotes a study from Reuters. You don't have to play it. I'll explain what I said in it. But I just took a video of the Reuters study. What this Reuters study shows you, pull up the chart there, Nick, is that in this Rutgers study, the CCP is censoring sensitive topics related to China.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And so if you want to understand why the CEO, who I think you may have worked with before, Chamath, at Facebook, the CEO is saying it's a ban when in fact it's a divestiture. If you want to understand why they care about this, it's because they want to be able to influence things in America. They want to have data on Americans. It's spyware. That's my position.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And it's the most censored platform, I think, in America, which I know you feel passionately about, Saxx. So I did this video, and just like COVID-19 was blocked on X, here in America, in the US, if you talked about Wuhan, if you talked about any of these topics, our government banned it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, if you talk about Hong Kong, if you talk about Uyghurs, if you talk about Tiananmen Square, your video will not be posted. In fact, my video is held right now. So... If you're hearing my voice right now, I'm doing a little experiment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I want everybody to post that chart and just read the Wikipedia page, maybe talk about Tank Man, talk about the Hong Kong riots, and then use the hashtag, don't ban TikTok. as a little bit of a cheeky way for us all to track each other's.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And I want to see if a hundred or a thousand all-in fans post one of these, if they all get banned or if we can see any of them so we can do a live censorship test here in America. Are Americans allowed to talk about Tiananmen Square, the Hong Kong riots, Uyghurs or any of those things? And you can also, if you want, have mentioned me. I'm at Jason Calacanis on TikTok. So that's my position on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I want to see this thing banned immediately or divest. I would prefer it be divested. Because I think people love it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All right, we're going to see. What do you think of my don't ban TikTok challenge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What do you think of my don't ban TikTok challenge, Sax? The censorship challenge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Wow. You're so passionate about censorship. It's done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Not if we stay vigilant. I mean, if we keep talking about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, they see you coming. You know what they see? 10 dimes worth of wine. I have taught many of my friends how to get reservations. I have a series of tips that I could give, but I don't want to give too many of them away. But nobody gives tips to maitre d's anymore. Sax, you tip the maitre d with cash?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
That's insane. Let's take a deep dive on that in a future episode because we're running out of time. We really should. One more story to get to. Let's deep dive it. Listen, there's a lot of topics people want us to talk about. And this one, I think people are talking about a whole bunch. It's kind of breaking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I couldn't find a Wall Street Journal or a Washington Post covering this, but a lot of people were talking about it on X. Biden's 2025 budget includes some serious capital gains hikes. There are three proposals in the 2025 budget. We'll put all the links in the show notes to increase cap gains rates, as opposed to income cap gains.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
If all three are passed, big if, it would more than double the long-term capital gains tax to almost 45%. Important to note, this only covers those making 1 million or more a year, which is like less than 1% of the country, way less. And so this is definitely a tax the rich idea here. Currently,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
the highest long-term capital gains rate is 20%, which is really about 24% if you earn more than 200K per year, because you have to pay an extra small tax. If these proposals become law, big if, it would create the highest cap gains rate in 100 years. Here's the chart.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
This comes from Americans for Tax Reform, which was done by a Reagan era, an NGO, I think, that was formed by a former Reagan administration. They basically make Politicians sign that they won't increase taxes. The budget also proposes a 25% unrealized cap gain tax. This would be a tax on total income, including unrealized cap gains for all taxpayers worth over 100 milli.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Okay, Sachs, I know this is your red meat. There's a lot of pieces here, but gosh, this is crushing for those folks who want to vote for Biden, but are moderates because this is like the number one thing you can do to stop innovation and investment in the country, which we desperately need. This is a head scratcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Freeberg, your thoughts? Well, we're talking about it here. We're not shrugging it off. This is like five alarm fire here on X. Everybody's talking about it. Freeberg, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Look at this little victory lap here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Your 401k is the government's and we're going to seize it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's gross. Unless you want to stop it now. Cut spending.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, I read that you're all in, so to speak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, okay, there it is. I mean, these are the two worst candidates in the history.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's the worst two candidates, and I think I'm voting for the third. Ooh, an RFK endorsement. Wow. I didn't see that. I think I just have to put in the protest vote of RFK or Biden. I love RFK.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, crazy. I think maybe I go after the rock. But yeah, congratulations on Biden on making this easy for Trump with his build back broke plan. So dumb.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, the worst two candidates of our lifetime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, at this point, I think I'm RFK all the way. I think I got to go for just try to support independence. I just think we got to balance the budget. Shout out David Friedberg. For the rain man himself, David Sachs. Yeah. David Friedberg, the sultan of science. We didn't get to science corner this week. We're going to start with it next week. And the chairman dictator, Chamath Palihapitiya.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I am the world's greatest moderator of the number one podcast in the world. I'm manifesting. Can we get to Spielberg? I'm manifesting track in here. And take us out, Spielberg. Young Spielberg, baby, coming at you. Love your voice. Bye-bye. Welcome, everybody, to episode 175. That's right. It's episode 175 of Your Favorite Podcast. The largest and most listened to podcast in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Officially, episode 177 of the podcast starts right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And now the plugs. Follow the show at x.com slash the all in pod. Our TikTok is at all underscore in underscore talk. Our Instagram is the all in pod. And on LinkedIn, search for the all in podcast. The show is produced by producer Nick Calacanis and our CEO is John Hale. You can find Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you can sign up for his weekly email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What I read this week at chamath.substack.com. Sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and follow Sandeep Madra, x.com slash Sandeep. You can follow David Sachs at x.com slash David Sachs. Sachs recently spoke at the American Moment Conference. It's his pinned tweet on his x.com profile. Follow David Friedberg, the sultan of science at x.com slash Friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Ohalo is hiring and David Freeberg is the CEO. You can click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. We're hiring a full-time researcher here. We need somebody who can do data research for us. We're looking for somebody to make charts and do surveys and research, deep research. If you'd like to apply, go to allinpodcast.co slash researcher, allinpodcast.co slash researcher to apply.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
The summit is taking place in September in Los Angeles, again at uclasummit.allinpodcast.co. I'm Jason Calacanis. You can follow me on x.com slash Jason or search for This Week in Startups on YouTube and follow my other podcast. I'm hosting my liquidity conference again in Napa on June 2nd to the 5th. Only LPs and GPs come to this event, 125 people every year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
This year's speakers include Ibrahim Ajami from Mubadala. David Freberg, Chamath Palihapitiya, Gavin Baker, Jordan Stein from Crescent Partners, Monique Woodard from Cake Ventures, I'm an LP, my guy, Pejman from ParaVentures, and Phil Deutsch, my bestie, liquiditypod.com slash summit to apply for one of the few remaining tickets. We'll see you next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Freeberg, your thoughts on meta-embracing going all in on AI. You were at Google, your alma mater, and you watched them be... proprietary and closed when it came to search and the search algorithm, but open source when they were behind. And that's, I guess, the phrase we use here in Silicon Valley. When you're behind, you use open source to catch up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And when you're ahead, you close everything down. Facebook famously shut down all access to their APIs. You can't get into the social graph. But they're going open here. Why? Because they're behind. Your thoughts on this from, say, a Google perspective, and then maybe how Google might react. And then just broadly, do you think open source wins the day getting to AGI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Of course, right? See, this is why Sax and I get along. Sax is a legit old school guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's a great point about founder authority, I think. That's a really salient point. Shout out to Zuck. Would really be great to get him at the All-In Summit. Sachs, we have some breaking news here. It turns out Lama 3, they just tested it in the benchmarks. It says here you can make the founding fathers any race you like. It's a really interesting feature. Any thoughts on Facebook's strategy here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You are a master strategist, David Sachs. Give us your master strategy here, 1700 chess rating, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What this kid's been doing is he's been getting Carbone reservations, other top tier reservations. And by the way, everybody's had this as an app idea. Nobody's really executed it that well. I don't want to give any plugs for any apps right now. But he has been selling $70,000. He's been flipping restaurant reservations for upwards of $1,000.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Will they blow past the closed source model, Sax?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Yeah, I think that you can't trade these things. and any attempt to do it is probably a level of false precision where you're going to lose more money, and there's a lot of slippage in even just trying to execute it. I mean, at the beginning of the year, I said the breakout asset was going to be Bitcoin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
I think it looks like it's going to be the resounding inflation hedge asset for the next 50 or 100 years. So that die has been cast. I think you're seeing the last vestiges of people using gold as a rational economic insurance policy, but I think the future is specifically Bitcoin on that dimension. So I guess you could trade that, you could speculate on that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
I think the question that I've been grappling with is, in my scenarios, what happens if Kamal Harris wins? What would the markets do? And I actually think it would reverse a lot of these trends over the last month and a half. Like I said, I really do think that there's a repositioning, rebalance component to everything that's happening right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So I don't think there's much to do unless you have a very specific bet that you want to make. I would just keep my head down and keep building.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Sorry, to your point, the one thing that I realized with a lot of young men that, Jason, I think you're really hitting the nail on the head is a lot of them now do not view the job that they do. as their only path to economic independence. And if anything, they may do a job, but then they're actively trading on the side something, crypto, options, whatever. They're on Robinhood.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
They're using Coinbase because it's almost like they've separated in their mind that the job they do will never give them the financial independence they want. And so instead, they're going to do that job because they like it. Hopefully they love it. But then separately, they're going to go and speculate to try to make money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Is that my... No, I am so tilted. Where is my wife?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
It's a really interesting thing because I had always been taught you earn your wealth through the job you have. And so if you wanted to make more money, you have to ladder up and do something different. But I think that that's not true. That idea has been sort of decoupled now. That's a really interesting change in how people approach work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
The other thing I'll say just in recruiting a bunch of people at 80, 90 over the last three or four months is there is an enormous difference that I have seen psychologically in the people that are 25 and older versus the people that are 25 and under. And I'm calling 25 as a rough number, but there are kids that are 18, 19, 20, 21 years old that are off the charts good. They're motivated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
They're hungry. They're like, let's get after it. And they are honestly different in the way they approach their job than folks that are in their late 20s and early 30s.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Yeah, the folks that are in their late 20s, early 30s, and I'm not trying to generalize or disparage, but they lack a level of motivation. Again, generally speaking, that the youngest folks in the workforce have, and that also that people in our generation sort of have. So they're sort of sandwiched in between a very different way of approaching work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Hmm.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Can I give you the other side of this before we go back to macro? Yeah. Imagine that Tom Brady, who really respected Bill Belichick, but I wouldn't say is super fond of him. They're not super close. But imagine that Tom Brady had a side hustle. And let's just say he drove an Uber and he made enough money where when things got hard and he didn't get enough playing time, he opted out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
Would that have made Brady the person he was? I think the answer is no. I think there are a lot of people who started companies after being in very difficult and challenging environments that stretched and pushed them beyond their comfort zone and they lived in that world for years before they started something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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If all of a sudden the answer is, let me have an escape hatch so that I can egress off whenever things get hard, I don't think you're going to accomplish much of anything. Because I'm not sure that that is the kind of boundary conditions that push greatness upon people. So I would just keep that in mind as well. I'm not sure the side hustle solves anything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
It may actually allow you to quit before you actually get to the other side of something and realize what you're capable of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Markets turn Trump, Long rates spike, Election home stretch, Influencer mania, Saving Starbucks
It's Cortez. You've got to burn the boats. Yeah, I agree with that. Your life needs to be like Cortez. You've got to burn the boats. If you keep the safety net with you as you move through life all the time and you never put yourself at risk, you're never going to figure out what you're capable of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And then you're going to look back at some point and the odds that you're going to be disappointed are higher than if you actually just tried and lived it and just said, okay, you know what? I'm really glad I'm betting on myself here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I'm trying to sell every single SaaS startup I have in secondary markets. And you know how many bids there are for these SaaS companies? Negative one bid.
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You just super tilted Freebird there. Look at him. He's laughing, but inside he's just about to explode.
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He should write all in a Get Fit memo.
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On Sachs' point about the equity markets, there is this thing that people look at called the Buffett indicator. which is the total value of the Wilshire 5000 divided by GDP. He mentioned it in 2000 and said it's probably the most reliable measure of where equities are and where they're about to go. And There is this long run mean when you calculate it going back, you know, 50, 60 years.
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And every time it's had a short-term high, there's been a pretty meaningful retrade. So in 2000 in the dot-com bubble, in 2007 during the great financial crisis, during COVID, and now we've actually set an absolute new high in this thing, which again, to the extent that you believe in indicators like this would kind of tell you that at some point here, equities are probably
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going to be cheaper before they're going to get more expensive.
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David's right. How can you get 4.25% When you have all of these risks looming over the next 10 years, because Howard Marks, his letter, he had an investment letter that he published this week.
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And it was so great because it was so elegant in its simplicity, which is investing in an equity and investing in a bond are just completely opposite to each other, even though they're treated and spoken differently. as if they're the same thing. And his concept is like, people need to understand exactly what the terms fixed income means.
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It means that you will get something reliably over a long period of time. And so the question is whether, is that fair knowing everything you know today? And I mean, all of you guys have said this now for feels like years. And when you show these charts of like ballooning deaths and deficits, Is it reasonable that the market clearing price for government-issued debt over the next decade is 4%?
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I mean, my gosh, it could easily be 6%. It could easily be 7% or 8%. That is very scary. Totally.
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Just one thing to... challenge what you're saying because i actually i disagree with it is that i don't think that people view the spending packages of both candidates the same because the dollar is not created equal so there are certain programs that the republicans have proposed that are markedly different than the programs that the democrats have proposed even if the numbers look the same
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And so this is why I think you have to look at how the short-term markets, when they thought Kamala was winning, behaved versus now the short-term markets, short-term meaning, how do you hedge this risk? And that has completely changed.
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And this is why I mean, over the last 30 days, you've had a complete and absolute repositioning of the front end of the yield curve in terms of risk and who's making the bets. And I think why is because the Trump package
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whether we agree with him or not, is viewed as more stimulative to long-term economic growth, which is why the inflation risk is being hedged out, versus the Kamala risk, which is they're just going to spend money. Now, on top of that, what I would say is this may be where Elon Musk being able to streamline the government
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could be an incredible gift for us as well as our children and our children's children. And why is that? It's because if there's this sort of Damocles hanging over us constantly of billions and trillions of dollars of wasteful spending, he is probably in a position to show us that we have spent decades spending more and getting less,
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And now we can run the A-B test where we spend meaningfully, meaningfully less, cut regulation. And if we actually get more, you will have the proof. And that could set us on a long-term path of being more judicious in how we spend money. And I think that we deserve to run that experiment somehow.
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Do you actually see it on both sides? Is it equal on both sides? Yeah. That's your observation?
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I think we're going to be fine.
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I think that things happen in a moment, and you have to have enough compassion to say you react in a moment But then you also have to have the intellect to separate yourself from the things that happen, learn more, and possibly and potentially change your mind. I don't want to be defined by a thing that I said in a moment. And I won't do that to other people.
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In that moment, I thought what happened was really terrible. And then since then, I've got to know the person and I don't think that he actually incited much of anything. That's my belief.
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Well, I think that those people need to also re-underwrite the way I did because I'm not really want to flip for random reasons. But that's not the point. The point is, I think that if you still believe what you believe then, then you should tell people to listen to what you said.
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Okay.
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What you're trying to say, which I partially disagree with, is those beliefs have changed over time. And I think it's more balanced for you to say that that's a point in time. And if you believe that that point in time still exists, that's fine for you to say that. But I think that's the way that you should say it. The other thing that I would like to say
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about this election, which I find really interesting, is we are in the part of the cycle now where the side that's losing is going to panic. And I think it's happened a couple times, but I would just remind everybody, we have run the A-B test. We know what the presidency is going to look like under Trump, except you get a real vice president plus RFK, plus Elon Musk, whether you like them or not.
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But my point is, I think you need to consider that you're getting four for the price of one. And if the other side, if Harris wins, you mostly know what the trend will be because you've seen the trend under four years of Biden.
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The second thing is I think it's interesting to see that when you get into the home stretch, the losing side tends to turn on itself because they start to play protectionism for their own careers. And there's a lot of stuff that I think you can consume that starts to show that. And I think that's just an interesting observation. A lot of the tried and true most reliable media sources
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that I think we're trying to navigate as much as possible for a pro-Harris presidency are starting to push back in a way that I find a little surprising. I think the CNN town hall yesterday was one of those moments for me where even people like David Axelrod, a little bit throwing Kamala Harris under the bus, I didn't expect that at all.
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So I think it's just important to observe that these things are happening.
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Let's get feedback about last night's dinner. Sean's dinner.
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David Axelrod, word salad city. That's what he said last night, which was very shocking that he would say that.
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But this is my point. Anderson Cooper now has to preserve his own credibility. You can only prop up a candidate so long. And then at some point, you have to prioritize your own media career. And I think Anderson Cooper last night had to start to push back
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But that's also not her fault. That's the position the Democratic Party put her in. And this goes back to what J. Cal said. We should have run a primary.
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By the way, we've said this now consistently. almost monotonously now for about two or three months. She has to go into these swing states and answer about four or five critical questions. And I would just say, this is still the problem. So if she wants to try to close this gap in the next 12 days and have a legitimate chance of winning, I think there's still 12 days.
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It's like the shoulder. It's the Brazilian word for it, but it's like a specific cut of meat. Sean did it last night. Honestly, David, I'm telling you, it's better than any other cut of meat you could get. If it's properly made... Sean crushed it yesterday, but it is bananas. It's so good.
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Well, you're a better campaign manager than the person that's running the campaign right now. Very straightforward. Look, they're not doing a good job. And I think that Sachs is right. They're afraid of their own shadow. And they're going to walk into a meaningful reset of the Democratic Party if they're not careful.
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Sorry, did you guys hear this rumor that Barstool Sports... She's not my candidate, by the way. She's not my candidate. Did you guys hear this rumor that Barstool Sports was asked if they would interview her and they turned her down? Is this rumor true?
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I like it more than ribeye. I like it more than ribeye, 100%. I like it more than the New York strip. That's terrible. Filet, terrible. No fat.
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I would eat that every day if I could.
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The avocado was ridiculous, too.
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The burnt sugar apple tart.
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This business is in trouble. Nick, please show the chart. This is Eli Lilly versus Starbucks. If you look at it over a year, you could look at it over the year to date. You could look at it over two years.
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Five years. But what does this show? This shows sugar versus anti-sugar. And anti-sugar is winning. Say it differently. GLP-1s versus things that cause you to need GLP-1s. GLP-1s are winning. I think this existential issue for Starbucks is about resetting to a much smaller footprint and a different product portfolio that tries to see where the puck is going.
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Where the puck is going is where a large percentage of the people that probably were buying Starbucks products and were very loyal Starbucks customers will have very different consumption habits as they more pervasively use these GLP-1s. And this in a nutshell is not something that Starbucks can fix with their current product mix. And so I think that they're fighting into a headwind.
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And these other companies are deeply incentivized to get American taste buds to be different. And so, Jason, the things that you talked about are exactly the things that I think start to fall off the menu or just don't sell as much.
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Because whatever the population of Americans are that are on GLP-1s, let's say it's single digits, the real question is what percentage of Starbucks customers are on these things? And I think it's probably much more than single digits. And this is why I think you see the continuous decline in same-store sales.
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If you're going to do something au poivre, I would go to the New York. I'm fine to deal with the New York in an au poivre, but well done, David Sachs. That is unacceptable.
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And I think if you start to graph the adoption of GLP ones pervasively in America to the drop in same store sales, I think as glp one adoption goes up, same store sales will continue to go down.
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The sad thing for Starbucks is that the only road that they have is to actually double down on sugar. And the reason is because the ARPUs are meaningfully higher than traditional coffee.
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And so the economic pressure that shareholders will put on it is to actually stay in the business that they're in and try to do it as long as possible, as you say, Freeburg, and just strip out as much cash as possible.
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But the structural problem is Starbucks should be probably a $20 billion asset.
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No, the difference is, though, that Apple has not had the competitive pressure that Starbucks has, because Starbucks competes on a level playing field with the Dunkin' Donuts of the world or the Pete's Coffees of the world, but they compete in a completely orthogonal plane with GLP-1s. And I think that is not something that Apple deals with.
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So Apple can still be at the point that you described earlier, which is let me just maximize free cash flow generation, which is what they do. And then let me allocate that back to shareholders via buybacks, which is also what they do. So there could be another decade or so where Apple can continue to run this play with very little impact to them or to the company. Now,
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I'll say something else about Apple, though, which is I actually upgraded my phone. I think this was three years in and I finally did it. My gosh, this phone sucks. iOS 18 software is janky. iOS 18 is just terrible. I'll show you one example of just like terrible design where if a designer that worked on my team showed me this, I would have fired them. Look at this. Can you see this?
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Is it possible to understand why you have two images for the do not disturb thing, one above the other? I had a broken one of those too. Yeah. No, but it's a level of sloppiness and not taking care, which just shows you that it's like we make so much money. It just doesn't matter anymore. That's what I feel like they're telling me. And then I'm like, well, wait a minute.
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Why did I just spend $1,200 of my hard-earned money to upgrade to this thing if you don't care?
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I think it was like $1,200 for this new phone. The other thing is that the actual upgrade itself, and I'm not exactly sure why because I didn't take the time to unpack it. It took four hours. the actual migration of like from an old phone to a new phone. And I thought, my gosh, this is such monopolistic behavior, right? So if it takes you an entire day to basically upgrade your phone.
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At some point, you're just going to stay with the platform you're on and never upgrade, or you're just going to stay on the exact same device because it's just too complicated. Imagine going from an Apple to an Android.
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Also photos in iOS is terrible. It's terrible.
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This is basically a camera and you made it terrible. It was good. Why did you do that?
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It is garbage. How do I get rid of the second silent thing on my thing? How can I just go back to the old thing? Totally.
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I know there's a lot of Apple people. This is, come on guys, can you just take this?
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Yeah, that's great. Good for you. How about I just send you some specialty chemicals that you can just pour down your throat? Some Xanthan milk. Kohlberger's oat milk bath? Some Kargegan. Don't listen to him.
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Oh, my God. Don't touch it. Stop touching it. I'm still mad at Nat. I'm going to talk to her about this.
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Where's your Bitcoin chart, buddy?
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Why are you showing gold? Nobody cares about gold. Show Bitcoin.
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Who picked that at the beginning of the year? Oh, was it me? Hold on one second. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.
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There's another couple of nuances here that I think are important. The US dollar complex is thriving, which means the US dollar is strong. Back-end yields are rising. And then another thing that I look at is this thing called put-call skew. So basically like on balance, how are people hedging in the short term? And in the bond market, they own a lot more puts than they do calls.
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I think that this is the entire financial infrastructure of the world repositioning itself from what was a toss-up election to a Trump win.
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And when you look at why, it's because when you forget the candidates themselves for a second, but if you think about the actual policies and where the spending will occur, I think that there has been a very clear decision that the Trump economic plan will drive better growth than the Harris plan.
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And if you think that there is more growth coming, typically what will come with that is a little bit more inflation. The risk premium that you're going to need in a high growth environment is higher. What is risk premium? How much do I want to invest for a risky asset versus a safe asset? All of these things are coalescing.
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I think that the short-term takeaway that I have just looking at all of this data is that in the economic distribution of outcomes, this is now tilted overwhelmingly to a Trump win. This is not an emotional statement or what I want to happen, but this is just an observation of how tens of trillions of dollars of self-interested financial actors have now repositioned their risk.
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And if Trump wins, which it looks like he's increasingly going to do, and if he wins by the margins that it looks like it's going to do, you're going to see a lot of these things exacerbate. Gold's going to go up more probably. Bitcoin will probably go up. The short-term economic upside for the economy will probably get reflected in higher equity prices. But it'll also push out long-term rates.
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The inflation picture becomes a little bit murkier. But I think that that's what's happening. I think that the financial markets are pricing in a Trump win.
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I think in the short term, what happens is that you see more economic growth, but in the medium term, inflation goes up, and so you want to hedge.
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So it's more about a durational balance of assets. So in the short term, you'll be long the things that will generate earnings. But in the medium to long term, you want to hedge yourself. So Bitcoin and gold, I think, will trade that way.
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I just want to be clear here. I'm trying to do a docket, and we have to put the kibosh on this insanity of the soap opera that is becoming opening eye, Sax, because every week it's three, four, five stories. Have you seen what's happened this week? Yeah, of course. Got to catch the audience up here. Let's catch the audience up on what's happened here.
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If any former employee who signed one of these old agreements is worried about it, they can contact me and we'll fix that too. Very sorry about this. So he's very, very sorry. It's starting to be like BP Oil, this company. They're just so sorry about everything.
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Right.
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Yeah, that is not exactly standard.
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I haven't, yeah.
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Yeah, so just in layman's terms, the clawback means you had $10 million in equity invested you earn 75% of it, you've got 7.5 million in equity there. You say something disparaging about the company, they can take it back from you.
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Even in a situation, Sax, we've seen this, where somebody commits fraud they still get their vested equity. And then it's up to the company to sue them for fraud separately, right? Like we've seen instances of that.
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Like committing a crime.
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What does Judge Sacks say?
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Well, and here we go. I think the Microsoft will pay the speeding ticket and we'll just all move on. But Freeberg, my God, can you imagine like being two or three PhDs and, you know, machine learning or whatever, you study your whole life, you're pursuing general AI and like people are coming up to your desk and creating all this drama and nonsense.
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And you're in the middle of a soap opera while you're trying to create the technology that creates super intelligence. It's nuts.
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Okay, well, then in that case, we will move on from OpenAI. Oh, sorry.
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Well, I mean, this is already... And I'm not saying we have all the facts yet, but... Yeah, what happens in these content cases is they get settled almost every single time. So the case law doesn't get codified. They just get settled out of court. If you go look at all the fair use cases, they almost never go to the mat. And so this one will just be settled.
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It'll just be a question of at what price.
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So this is the third dramatic story of the week.
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Two heads of OpenAI's super alignment team left the company last week, the day after GPT-4.0 launch. Ilya announced he was leaving the company. He was our chief scientist. A few hours later, his partner on the alignment team, Jan Laika, also announced he was resigning.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
All right, there it is, folks. If you want, you can switch to Saxipoo. So just go into OpenAI. You're saying they stole my voice now? Yeah, they stole yours. Go into OpenAI, go to Voices, and then just pick Saxipoo. It's right there between Putin and Tucker. Putin, Saxipoo, Tucker. You can find all your favorite MAGA guests on the number one MAGA program. All in podcast. Here we go.
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In a later thread, Laika explained that he left due to, quote, safety culture and processes have taken a backseat to shiny products. Okay, there's a little bit of disparagement to our former point about non-disparagements and NDAs. So OpenAI lost both its heads of AI alignment one day after it launched that new product. Is that a coincidence? It's interesting.
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If you don't know what super alignment is, it's basically making sure that the software doesn't go Terminator. What are your thoughts on this, Friedberg?
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Sacks, it was reported that Ilya was on the side of the... nonprofit-y, slow down AI, be cautious group when they fired Sam. So what's your take on what's going on here with super alignment inside of OpenAI? Judge Sachs.
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Yeah, that's why people are saying there's this meme, what did Ilias see? What did he see?
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Sam's a straight shooter. We should just have him on the pod to explain why. I mean, it'll clear everything up. Stop me if you've heard this before. NVIDIA just smashed all expectations while reporting record profits and revenue. The AI train continues on Wednesday. NVIDIA reported earnings for the fiscal Q1. Revenue was $26 billion, up 18% quarter to quarter, 260% year over year.
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Basically, they quadrupled. year over year on billions of revenue. This chart is bonkers. We've never seen anything like this in the history of Silicon Valley or corporate America. This is if somebody literally was mining coal and then found a diamond and gold mine underneath it. It's bonkers what's happened here.
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When you look at the revenue there, the sort of slow growth or moderate growth revenue that they experienced, that was all because NVIDIA was primarily providing GPUs
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For people playing video games or mining crypto, and then what you see with this unbelievable six-quarter run and five, six-quarter run is companies like Microsoft, Google, Tesla, OpenAI, etc., buying just billions and billions of dollars worth of hardware. I'll end on this and Chamath and get your take on it. Here's 2019 top companies by market cap in the world.
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All right, we're off to a strong start here. Everybody's in a good mood. Let's keep the good times rolling here. And let's go over the ScarJo saga. To recap, if you're living under a rock this week, It came out that OpenAI, specifically Sam, had contacted Scarlett Johansson multiple times about lending her voice for one of OpenAI's chat box.
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Obviously, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Google, Berkshire, Facebook, Alibaba, Tencent. And then you get some of the, you know, incumbents and legacy companies, J&J, Exxon and JP Morgan Visa. Way down on the list in 2019, number 84 was NVIDIA. Today, NVIDIA is the third largest company by market cap behind Microsoft and Apple and ahead of Google, aka Alphabet and Saudi Aramco.
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Shamath, what's your take on this? Will it continue? And how do you conceptualize this level of growth on such a big number?
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So, Chamath, who's in the arena trying stuff? Some of these things working, obviously, and some not working.
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Obviously, you know, she famously was the voice Samantha in the awesome film, Her. And according to ScarJo, Altman told her she could quote, bridge the gap between tech companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift concerning humans and AI. and that her voice, quote, would be comforting to people.
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Death by a thousand startups. All right, I guess one of the questions people are asking right now is, have we ever seen a company at this scale and the impact it's having, not just in technology, which Shamath just pointed out beautifully, but also it's having a huge impact on Wall Street, on the stock market, on finance.
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Pretty one-dimensional. Yeah, pretty easy to copy. Moving data around, yeah.
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Yeah, it's like a giant oven.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Although she declined the offer, OpenAI released a chatbot named Sky, which had a similar voice to ScarJo's. According to ScarJo, her friends and family thought the voice was her. She released a statement, yada, yada. On May 13th, the day OpenAI launched ChatGPT 4.0 Omni, which we talked about last week, Altman tweeted, her, a reference to the film.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So there's a counter here, Freeberg, which is obviously, if you follow the Cisco analogy, one of the things that also sunk Cisco was once people had bought all that capacity, there was no need. There was no file size that was so great that it couldn't be moved easily around the internet. You know, you make movies...
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HD, super HD, 2k, 4k, the bet we've created too much bandwidth, there was no use for it. So I guess that that's a counter argument for maybe when, if we build up too much capacity, NVIDIA also could not by competitors, but just by the build out being enough. So what's your take on that counter argument, and then whatever I thought you have?
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Yeah, we talked about that in a previous episode, because there's no M&A, to your point. Unicon's not going to let you buy stuff, or the UK is not going to let you buy stuff.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Obviously, now ScarJo is threatening legal action against OpenAI. Altman put out a statement apologizing and saying the voice was never intended to resemble hers. His quote, we're sorry to Miss Johansson that we didn't communicate better. OpenAI showed documents to the Washington Post that confirmed the voice was provided by a different actress who is anonymous.
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Yeah, and there's a great precedent for what you're saying because, or clues, Amazon is making chips, Google is making chips, and in fact, Apple- Facebook's making chips.
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And then Apple makes their own chips and they got rid of Intel. And so this is how it's going to go. Your margin is my opportunity. And, you know, with all this market cap increase, the good news is just reported that Jensen has bought a second leather jacket. So, well, this market cap has enabled him to Expand the wardrobe a bit.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
He looks amazing. I'll tell you something. In the zombie apocalypse draft, I'm picking him. That guy seems crafty. He's so resourceful. What do you think he does for exercise? No plastic. Plastic-free balls.
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He's got steel in there. No, no. His had brass in them.
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Okay. Well, we have two choices here. We can go with another tech story, or we can go directly to Science Corner. Well, no.
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Okay. So you want to talk about our pocketbooks, and then we'll talk about our pockets, and then we'll just make a quick detour to the right and then talk about our balls. We're in the same vicinity.
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I mean, Freiburg told me he likes to start with the balls. I don't know. Everybody's got different kind of vibes here.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
You want to save the ball play for later, Saxon? Yeah, yeah. I'm having a hard time keeping this together, guys. More than half of Americans think we're in a recession. I think we're in a vibe session right now because we're not in a recession. But people are feeling really bad. A Harris poll conducted by The Guardian shows 56% of Americans wrongly believe the U.S. is in a recession.
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Not surprisingly, they blame Biden. The poll highlighted a bunch of misconceptions. 55% believe the U.S. economy is shrinking. It's obviously not. 56% think the U.S. is experiencing recession. It's obviously not. 49% of people believe the S&P 500 stock market index is down for the year. It's up 12% this year. It was up 24% in 2023.
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Post reporters also spoke to the unnamed actress's agent who confirmed the story. I guess, Sax, you sent us a comparison clip. Maybe we start there and see what we think?
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And 49% believe that unemployment is at a 50-year high when it's in fact at a 50-year low. and Americans are really concerned about the cost of living and inflation. Fair enough. 70% said the biggest economic concern was the cost of living. 68% said that inflation was the biggest economic concern. Important quote here.
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A majority of respondents agreed, it's difficult to be happy about positive economic news when I feel financially squeezed each month, and that the economy was worse than the media made it out to be. According to the polls, 70% of Republicans and 40% of Democrats think Biden is making the economy worse. Chamath, you have some thoughts on this.
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And just going back to this chart right before it, just so the people who are listening, if you put the pie chop art in there, important for people to know, consumer is about 70% of the economy. And if you put investment and government together, that's just over maybe 34% or something like that. Yeah, 35%.
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So it is a consumer-driven economy, but hey, corporate and government spending is a major piece as well.
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Saks, what's your take on the vibe session?
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Because of inflation, right?
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Where did the inflation come from?
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It sounds like they didn't get it perfect, right? Like they got it to, what, 90%? It sounds like
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I think we're probably going to go around the horn and all agree. Obviously, the crazy spending started in the Trump and COVID era, and that caused a lot of the inflation as well, just to be fair. It's two administrations that are just out of control with spending. But the way I look at this is the Mickey D economy is
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People may not know this, but 96% of Americans eat meals at least once a year in McDonald's. 8% of Americans eat at McDonald's on an average day. And when you look at the prices of McDonald's here, if we look at this image- Yeah, this is incredible.
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This is unbelievable. Medium French fries at McDonald's, $1.79 in 2019, and now $4.19. And then if we look at just McNuggets- My gosh. $4.49 to $7.58. 68% increase. McChicken, 129 to 389. And then here is a very interesting one. This is CPI versus McDonald's. Big Mac prices. Take a look at that. As much as the consumer price index has surged, Big Macs have exceeded that.
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And so Americans are seeing this over and over again when they go to McDonald's and other places. And that's what's causing the feeling.
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If you own equities in McDonald's and you're in the top third or half, maybe half of Americans who have equity exposure, you're feeling great. If you're on the bottom third or half and you're buying at McDonald's and you don't own equity at McDonald's, you feel terrible. Freebreak, you had some additional thoughts?
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Sax, let me ask you a candid question. When was the last time you were in a supermarket? Be honest. When's the last time you literally went to a supermarket? I'm just curious. It's a good question.
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Yeah, and the other thing is – I went to the supermarket the other day. I like going to the supermarket. I take my girls to the supermarket.
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I went and tried to find them here in San Mateo, and there's none left. They said Chamath cornered the market.
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Wait, they made this actress up.
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You have to get on the Hokkaido strawberries. This is where it's at. You have no idea like what you can spend on strawberries. People are spending 10 bucks on a strawberry. It is bonkers. I bought a hundred dollar mango once in Tokyo. Yeah. Incredible.
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The other thing I think with these numbers is if you're an economist and you're like, inflation has gone down, that means the rate of inflation has gone down from 6% or 7% down to 3% or 2.9% or 3.1%. That doesn't mean prices aren't still going up.
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Yeah. Some of this is classic psychology. People do focus on the negative. The media focuses on the negative. And then with social media, people are seeing lifestyles that are unattainable, just like they're seeing body types that are unattainable because people are doing filters. You're also seeing people living a lifestyle that's unattainable.
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And then it makes people, because their expectation of their life is so high, when they then subtract the reality of their life, they've got a deficit. And really, happiness is like... expectations minus reality equals happiness.
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Yeah, when people were having free money dropped on their head. Trump dropped free money on people's heads. So your argument that Biden's crazy in spending, Trump sent them free checks with his name on it.
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But you admit that he spent way too much money, right? You admit he spent way too much money.
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So when Trump signed his name on those shacks, there's no comparison.
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Trump, just to give facts, Trump will have spent $7.8 trillion. Biden will spend slightly less, like $6.x trillion. At the end of these things, they're both going to have added $15 trillion.
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Yeah, and a terribly timed tax break.
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Well, no, quantitatively, Trump spent more. But you're saying qualitatively Biden's is worse because he didn't need to.
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Right. OK, I got it. So one spent more, one spent less, but one didn't need to.
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Well, the tax break was the one that accounted for a lot of... But anyway, we can sit here and debate Trump versus Biden all day.
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Yeah, we're wasting time here. Wasting time on Trump and Biden when we could be talking... Let's get to my ballon. If we're going to talk about our balls, we need to go to somebody who's an expert on our testicles. Freeberg... Let's go right to science corner. Let's talk about our balls with the sultan of science. There's been a study on phthalates, our balls, and plastic in our balls.
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Freebark, tee this up.
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Keep going, Tucker.
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In the frozen balls. In the frozen balls. These are ancient frozen balls? How old are these balls? 23 frozen balls, about seven years old. Seven-year-old balls, frozen.
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They asked me to store my balls, I think. They said, you've got such huge balls.
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What do you usually find, Freeberg? What do you usually find in these balls?
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Okay, so just zooming out here for a minute, talked about the phthalates, but what about the bofas, Freeberg? The study on the bofas?
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circle the wagons, defend the company, sell your shares in secondary at 90 billion to Thrive or whoever. What would your take, Friedberg, on all of this craziness and drama?
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Yeah, it seems like you're saying it's helpless here, Freebird. There's nothing we can do. And I think what Chamath and I are asking you is like, where do we start? How can we start to get off of plastics?
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah. And here's an idea. Look at this, Chamath. Like, look at this banana. Like, I just, as a newsflash, a banana already has a wrapper. It's called the peel. And then people are wrapping plastics on this stuff. Like, I think consumers need to demand that, like, we have low packaging. Why did you take a picture of a banana? Why did you take a picture of a banana? I found that on the internet.
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I didn't actually take it myself.
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No, no, it's just, you know, when you see this kind of packaging, this is what has made me nuts in my life is all this crazy packaging going on. And in Europe, you are required at the supermarket, and people do this when they get to the end of the counter, they take the packaging off. The supermarket has to take the packaging. So they have to bear the burden of it.
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So if you get a tube of toothpaste, you can take the packaging off and hand them the thing. Other places are now saying, hey, if you're coming for peanut butter or grains or flour or sugar, they have a barrel of sugar. They put it in a brown bag and you get this like more clean experience. I think we have to have like both ends of this, the supply chain, but also consumers.
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You don't eat the peel, brother. You don't eat the peel.
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We haven't bought water bottles.
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Did you ask him how many people in his house handled his banana?
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Did that land me? Who made that? That was great. Did you make that? Yeah, that was me. 10 out of 10.
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And it's impossible. If you're eating vegetables.
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Well, there's other health benefits to it, of course. And there's environmental benefits. But we went all glass bottles, as I told you. And then I find out that some of the cans we have, because it's a couple of things we like, like certain... Natural sodas. They got plastic on the inside of the aluminum cans. The plastic on the inside, exactly.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I'm like, I thought I was doing the right thing here by going aluminum cans. Now you gotta get rid of the plastic. No, no, no, we f***ed you. We put plastic on the inside.
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I'm in.
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Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, anyway, I think this was a fascinating science corner. And I took a screenshot of Sacks during it. This is Sacks' interest level. You can always tell how good it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Absolutely. They actually checked Sax's balls for the plastics and all they found were steel. So there it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Going around the horn here. What's your favorite balls in pop culture? For me, it's got to be Idiocracy. I love... Have you guys seen Idiocracy, Mike Judge's film?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Okay. So in the film, I'll just cue this up. Society has gone to the lowest possible IQ. Everybody's got an 80 IQ. And like people, like a reality TV star is running the country into the ground. That's what he has in idiocracy. And the number one television show is essentially a TikTok called Ouch My Balls. Here it is. Ouch My Balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
it's basically the number one television show in this society this dystopian society where all the crops have died and they don't know how to make crops anymore is ouch my balls it's just a super cut of a guy getting kicked in the nuts sax what's your favorite ball moment in pop culture
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
All right. Here it is, folks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Freeberg, you got a favorite ball clip from pop culture for yourself that tickles you? No? Chamath, you got one?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
You got one? Okay, everybody. This has been a spectacular episode of the world's number one podcast. It's episode 180 of the All In Podcast. with you again for the Sultan of Science, David Friedberg, David Sachs, the Rain Man.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And we'll see you all at the Olin Summit in September. Bye-bye. Love you, Bruce.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And now the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th. You can apply for a ticket at summit.allinpodcast.co. Scholarships will be coming soon. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search All In Podcast and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post. And we're going to do a party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
In Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers, so look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for theallinpodcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do.
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Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. And you can follow Saks at x.com slash davidsaks. Saks recently spoke at the American Moment Conference and people are going crazy for it. It's pinned to his tweet on his X profile. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason.
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And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, Go to Instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups. Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher.
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Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, et cetera. All in podcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to Athena. Wow. FinaWow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy J-Cal.
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FinaWow.com. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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That was my idea, but Nick's and Lon's execution.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Broken clock's right twice a day. Took four years. That was awesome. A broken clock is right twice a day. The Jason Calacanis score. That's my winner by under.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And there's a very simple test here. If there's confusion amongst the public, which is what Scar Jo put in her letter, and that was a legally written, deftly written letter to set up a huge settlement. Because she said, the morning this came out, all of my friends said, oh my God, congratulations on your Chachi P. Teodale. This is great. The public being confused is the key issue here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And there's something called the right to publicity. This is basically how celebrities defend their rights. It's happening all the time to podcasters, by the way. There was a company that put me in their ads based on something I said in a show. And then they put ads against it. And Huberman's been having this happen. Joe Rogan's having this happen. It's happening to me right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
They paid for it. There's a company, Speechify. I'm not an investor or anything like that, but they have Gwyneth Paltrow as a licensed voice to read your stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Obvious. Like just whoever wants to get paid, here's the opportunity. If three people say no, the fourth will say yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Judge Sachs, give your verdict. I'm starting a new spinoff show. Judge Sachs says... Guilty. Okay. Judge Sachs, sentence now. What's the sentence?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Or you get a fixer. Get Michael Cohen in there and get a settlement going. Let's get some fixer in there to fix it. Okay, listen, enough with OpenAI. Oh, wait, there's more. Geez, it's ruining the docket. I guess we have to talk about the next drama from OpenAI this week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
But seriously, there was a big drama, Sax. I don't know if you saw this, but you couldn't have missed it with the ScarJo. So they made an emergency, they had an emergency meeting, got all the developers together, and they've reset. They took Scarlett Johansson out, and they got a new person. I think arguably better. I'm free, Greg. I'm curious your take on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Former employees sign an agreement that they're forbidden forever from criticizing the company or even acknowledging that the NDA exists. If a departing employee declines to sign the document or if they violate it, they can lose all vested equity they earned during their time at the company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
In practice, this means ex-employees have to choose between giving up millions of dollars they've already earned or agreeing not to criticize the company in perpetuity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Here's what Sam Altman said. There was a provision about potential equity cancellation in our previous exit docs. Although we never clawed anything back, it should never have been something we had in any documents or communication. This is on me. And one of the few times I've genuinely been embarrassed running OpenAI. I did not know this was happening and I should have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Because otherwise-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Stray bullets everywhere. No, I'm not going to say his name.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Wow. Making news. Making news. Why are you doing this at the end of the show? I'm just frustrated. I'm literally going to smash this laptop with my tractor. Right when J. Cal was about to become a centimillionaire, she shut the door.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Uber over 60, you're going to get a much different answer from me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
History of the world, Mel Brooks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The Stablecoin Future, Milei's Memecoin, DOGE for the DoD, Grok 3, Why Stripe Stays Private
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world. I am your host, Jason Calacanis. And with me again, a couple of my besties, David Friedberg. You know him as our Sultan of Science. Lots to get into today, Sultan, huh? How you doing? I'm keeping busy. Thank you. Keeping busy. Jamath and I on Valentine's Day. We had a little trio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All right, Freiburg, before we get into the docket, you got any question for the boys here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Well, in fairness, Chamath told me I could use that credit card anytime I want. I don't think he remembered, but I think you need to turn my account back on. And Freeburg, I just got news from our CEO, John Mastercard, just canceled their sponsorship of All In Summit. So this is costing us a fortune, this podcast so far.
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All right, and we'll get into staying private longer and when you guys are going to pull the IPO trigger later in the show. But we've got to get through this docket. We've got so many great topics to talk about. Let's get to our first story here. It's kind of a fun one. Jamie Dimon went on a rant about remote work and Zoom in a town hall. And here's a snippet.
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Call some brothers. Tell us about how you run Stripe. Are you remote? Does this resonate with you four years after we've come out of the pandemic?
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Freiburg, you're running a company now. You're the CEO of Ohalo. Ohalo. Tell us, does this resonate with you? What do you think? Especially by younger people, his point and like being rude or being focused, being in the meeting. And then like maybe there's too many meetings where people are partially paying attention.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Maybe there should be half as many meetings and people should be paying attention. What do you think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All right, Shamath, I want you to respond specifically to this next clip. Let's play the second clip about organizational bloat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All right, Shamath, the bloated bureaucracy at big companies, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And then you got like the sales team using I don't know, sales force and organizational bloat.
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But then for the company, they're completely unproductive and useless, which is on us. Hey, John, Toby, I don't know if you know Toby from Shopify, but he did this like zero based budgeting kind of concept for meetings. He just purged all meetings at the beginning of the year. He just like deleted everybody's meetings from the top down.
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I'm curious how you think about bloat and just all of these meetings and committees. Do you worry about that at Stripe?
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It's literally solitary confinement. It's ridiculous. And by the way, breaking news here. Jamie Dimon now knows which 2000 or I'm sorry, 1739 employees to lay off first, there is a coworker.org petition to get Jamie to retract his statement. So the opt in has been created.
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Absolutely. He will bend to the pressure of those 1,700 mids. Patrick, how do you deal with mids at Stripe? How do you deal with the mids? I'm not saying you have any, but maybe you've run into... Because you've got over 10,000 employees. When somebody's average, that must make you crazy. How do you deal with it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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It's also quite good. Well, no, I was using the term mids. Mids are people who are just average people, not the above average stripe people who opt into that. But how do you deal with low performance is kind of what I'm getting at.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Many paths to heaven. All right. So let's move on to our next story.
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That's going to keep ramping up with AI and all these amazing tools that are coming out. We'll leave that on the side for now because that would be an hour-long rabbit hole we could jump down. But we've got to get back into Doge. I've heard a couple of criticisms of Doge. One of them is it's one-sided. We're only hearing about people on the left doing grifts and USAID. The other one is...
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Hey, you're pointing at little tiny things like USAID. When are you going to get to defense spending and Social Security? Well, here we are. Washington Post is reporting that in between doing sets of 47 push-ups, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth asked senior leadership at the Pentagon to develop a plan to cut 8% from the defense budget each of the next five years, that's compounding 8%.
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Here's a chart, we're talking about close to 300 billion in savings over five years if they hit, which isn't a crazy target 8% a year. It's just crazy in our country where we haven't even been able to have our Defense Department pass a basic audit. If you've seen those type of reports, let's pause there and just talk about military spending, Shema?
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Freeberg, any thoughts there on cutting defense spending? Obviously, we have, to Chamath's point, amazing founders like my guy, Palmer Luckey, cutting the cost of very important armaments. He's not your guy. He hates it. That's my guy. He hates it. My bestie. Oh, no. It's all a joke, everybody. Calm down. We just have a little back and forth.
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No, I talked to you. Listen, I know all the board members. I got a personal relationship with everybody. Until your careers end it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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John, tell us what that meeting was like. And to just take you back to the moment, here's a picture. Stop. Stop. Here's a picture. No striking. Here's a picture of pre- Nine-figure Chamath. Oh, my God. And this is when he shopped at Macy's. Does that, maybe that jogs some memories, John. When that guy walked in with his khakis and that light pink Brooks Brothers shirt, what did you think?
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We were on MKUltra's podcast, and it hit number four. All-in podcast, of course, number one. Chamath, reflections on our Megyn Kelly, our triumphant Megyn Kelly Valentine's spectacular. It was fine. It was good. Okay. Wow, thanks. You're such a great performer, giving me so much to work with, Chamath, as always. But it was a great, great pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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A holistic view of it. Patrick, any thoughts on what we're seeing in defense tech and saving money through Doge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Tell us the name of the book again. I know there's many books about it.
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There it is. Okay, everybody. Another book selection from the All In Book Club brought to you by Stripe. Use the code ALLIN to get a year free of Stripe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Absolutely. Oh, you do actually have a series of cool books. Yeah, we'll plug those towards the end. All right. Chamath, you added a crypto update. Crypto Corner is back. We had an exciting week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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of innovation in the crypto space last week, Argentine President Millay, who is a hero to a lot of people in on the right, or for government efficiency, promoted a meme coin, it was called Libra dollar sign Libra.
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And he originally tweeted, this private project will be dedicated to encouraging the growth of the Argentine economy, with a link to Libra for his citizens to go buy it and buy it they did. But he deleted that tweet when this whole thing came apart and said, I was not aware of the details of the project. And after having become aware of it, I decided to not continue spreading it.
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The market cap ripped $4 billion. It crashed 95%, as these meme coins always do. 74,000 traders lost money. Almost $300 million. 24 wallets had losses over a million. And Millais has been sued 100 plus times already. And this just happened last week. He's being investigated by his own government now. And there is an impeachment attempt underway by the opposition party.
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Malay's team told CNN that his endorsement of the coin was a mistake. Really? Oh, wow. Going out on a limb there. According to insiders, Malay never actually owned any Libra and was not associated with the coin. I think family members maybe put him up to it. The details of why he promoted it remain a little bit unclear. There's a lot of speculation. Chamath, your thoughts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, Stripe processes payments. This is a 10 plus year old startup, that basically, if you're a startup company, and you want to do transactions, you use stripe. For example, the all in startup uses stripe to pay for the tickets.
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He was on CoffeeZilla. It was an incredible one hour.
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And there was another like interesting little tidbit, Friedberg, friend of the pod, David Portnoy, supposedly he's been getting in on this and he's a gambler and he loves gambling and he looks at his gambling. Obviously, he had put reportedly millions of dollars into this and this guy we're talking about gave him his money back.
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This guy also has something like $100 million sitting in a bank account anywhere. What's your take on all these meme coins, Friedberg?
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And then we give these guys for some reason, a half million dollars every year, no discount, they don't sponsor the event, and they're making a fortune, they got 10,000 employees, and the company changed the world.
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Patrick, do you think these are like collectibles or do you think they are perceived by the people buying them more like securities and more like Bitcoin? They do, to steal me on the other side of the argument. They do trade with a ticker symbol. They are traded on major platforms like Coinbase and Robinhood. And people share charts about them. So where do you stand on it?
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You're in the finance business. Meme coin's good. Meme coin's bad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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John, maybe two things could be true here. People are gambling and they are being presented as financial instruments and they're trying to trick the suckers at the table. The suckers in this case being the people who voted for Malay. To Chamath's point, this is the unbelievable cell phone of the decade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Well, you hit us up for a half milli last year. I mean, maybe this year we can hit you up. We'll negotiate it live.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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What do you think, J. Cal? I agree with you, Chamath. Malay had the greatest PR run of all time, I think. Yeah. I mean, he became an inspiration to all of us here in America who were concerned about the deficit and out-of-control spending and ridiculous departments. We heard Jamie Dimon talking about ridiculous committees and all this nonsense.
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I don't know if you guys remember, but remember he was like... minister of culture, afuera, and minister of gender, afuera. This was the precursor to, of course, Doge, where now we're like USA, deleted, Department of Education, deleted, you know, Defense Department, minus 8%. And, you know, what I really find terrible about this is that what it means for leadership, what Millais did was he
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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rug pulled the people who put him in office. The people who voted for Millet are the ones who got hurt here. And when you think about leadership at its core, it really is about putting the needs of your constituents ahead of your own interest, the needs of your investors in the case of, you know, if you were running Stripe, right, you got to think about all these shareholders. Leadership
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you know, at its core is, I think, setting the example, right, you set the standard, the standard, the moral, the ethical, the vibes, the culture, you set that standard, he had set such a great standard that we all loved. And, you know, the appearance of impropriety, is impropriety in my mind. That's the leadership standard that should be here.
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So even being near this, your sister launching it, your brother launching, whatever it is, he then went on to taunt. This is where I've really, you know, like people make mistakes, but, and this is a stupid one to make, but the taunting of his own followers, you know, I'm out on Malay right now. This is what he said.
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The reality is, if you go to the casino and lose money, I mean, what is the claim if you knew that it had these characteristics? This is another failure of leadership. Leaders own their mistakes. They don't attack the victims. You take ownership of it. And the way you should judge people, I think, is what they do when they're given a lot of power and what they do when they make mistakes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Millet is a failure on all of those fronts. It's absolutely abhorrent. That's it. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. No, I'm just, I'm on fire about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I do, I do. Actually, yes. Yeah, I'm over here. I'm sorry. I actually care about morals, ethics, and leadership. I think that there's a standard set by these people. That's what I think about when I think about you. Yes, of course. Thank you. All right. With friends like these, Coulson brothers, can you imagine? Can you please say their name? I'm so annoyed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Coulson. Coulson, I said it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Coulson. I'm pronouncing the Irish, okay? We speed things up a little bit. We put them together. It's a little bit different. You wouldn't know this from being from Sri Lanka, a great country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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It seems to me like you're also the product of the technological innovation that occurred during your presidency and during your term. And if you think about Clinton, he got to ride the internet and this massive economic boom. And you look at, you know, Reagan, the PC boom. I mean, sometimes the timing really matters, I think. I think...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And the last two administrations, and you look at California, there were massive windows of surplus. And there were massive windows of a surging stock market over the last eight years. And we plundered and we wasted them by adding $16 trillion to the debt during a good time. What's going to happen during a bad time? Just absolutely brutal. Let's move on. Where do we want to go here?
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We got Grok 3. We got the China private sector. We got a victory lap for Freiburg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All right, let's do the ARK Institute. Freiburg, why don't you ask the question?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, yes. And one of the co-founders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And you guys are funders of it? Yeah, maybe you guys give us the intro to the ARC Institute. They put a lot of money into this, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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This is Evo 2 you're talking about. Exactly. Evo, the number two. Evo 2.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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when they have this technology transfer department at every major university where when scientists get grants and they work on some innovation, it gets monetized. And so what happens here? Who owns the innovations? How do you license them? Because it would be amazing if it just wasn't based on, I believe you guys have put over a billion dollars into this. That was my understanding. Is that true?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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You guys are over a billion dollars into this effort? Not quite. The numbers are public.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So hundreds of millions of dollars. This is a really significant thing. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Well, actually, John, just one thing there. I was talking to a friend of mine. If this thing actually hits, you could flip this nonprofit into a for-profit. I got a guy you could talk to. Anyway, John, go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Dr. Doom, let's go. No, no, but like, it's a real, like, it is a real, this is a real issue. Down to the science corner here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Shout out to our friend and friend of the pod, Megyn Kelly. And awesome. We've got an incredible duo. For the first time, we've invited a duo to join us in the Red Throne. David Sachs' seat. He's busy saving the country, but we're really excited. The Coulson brothers are with us. Thank you for having us. You guys want to hear a great lost porn story?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Are you in favor of DEI, Friedberg? They cornered you. Friedberg, you got to make one promise to me. Here it comes. You're not going to start working on raptors. I don't want to see any of these raptors running around San Francisco, okay? Chamath, your thoughts here on Science Corner here? It's been a really enthralling one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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XAI built the largest data center, over 100,000 GPUs, going to 200,000 in 122 days. I mean, basically what he proved...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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It's more interlinked companies. It's interlinked. Sure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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18.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah. I mean, that is the nature of entrepreneurship.
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The nature of entrepreneurship is doing something delusional and then just letting, you know... But most entrepreneurs just do one delusional thing once.
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I actually have some insight to this just from knowing Elon. A lot of these things compound a lot of what he learned in material science doing SpaceX and about making the engines and then working with metal. You see in his production at
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Tesla, and specifically in the cyber truck, he has learned so much about factories, I don't think there's a person on the planet who knows more about factories now having built a battery factory, a space factory, an engine factory and a car factory, and now building optimus on top of that. So these things compound, and then a lot of the engineers will float between the companies.
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So there are folks who have worked at SpaceX, who then go do a tour over at Tesla, etc. And a number of those wound up coming into Doge.
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Well, and what happened with Colossus is they had told Elon that he wanted to use other network operation centers to host Colossus, you know, and he looked, there were none available.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And when he did find quotes from them, they told him 18 to 24 months, he just determined, hey, if this, there's no reason to even do this, if I can't get this done in a, you know, 100 days or something, why even join the race, I'm going to be so far behind. And if you look, just to wrap this segment up and get on to our final two segments.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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If you look at these two charts about Grok, it's now, and you know, listen, these benchmarks and these arenas and testing, there's a lot of controversy around them and people keep leapfrogging each other. But they do give us, I think, our best shot at looking at progress. This is the benchmark here for Grok on a bunch of different tests, math, science, and coding.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And as you can see, Grok 3 has now eclipsed Gemini, which is Google's LLM and deep seek from China, quad and chat GPT, four. And so to your point, it's pretty impressive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The thing here, I think Freebird, I'd like to get your comment on is, if hardware is the constraint, does that mean that the person who understands hardware, and build outs, as Chamath was pointing to, Does that mean that they by default win the MLM race? No, but Jason, hold on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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That's, that's not that I think that was super consequential is my is, I mean, complete agreement with the Chamath and just freebird to wrap the segment up and put a bow on it. We see these LLMs, they're made incredible progress, as we just heard from Evie two, or Evo two, I'm sorry, grok, and we're making these giant gains in space, you know, in work, and it's specifically in space.
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Dave, do you think this will get us any closer to Uranus?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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so sad so sad it didn't even land okay let's do our final don't even don't even acknowledge it do not acknowledge it because we'll just do more of it i tried to get your mom to do one he wouldn't do it okay last two segments we're going to talk about staying private longer and when you guys are going to go public and then there's an asteroid coming what do we want to do first boys you want to talk about this asteroid coming dave is it the end of the world if it hits us what's going on
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Probably going to land in an ocean, right? I mean, right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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If it hits the earth, the causing loss of life, 10 basis points, it hits a city.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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is there a counter measure? I don't mean to get all sci-fi here. Great question. Yeah. No, but is there a counter measure possible? And like, if this thing was coming, let's say in five years and it was twice the size. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All right. Now, good morning. Everybody's been waiting for. Patrick, John, you founded the company in 2010. It's 15 years later. The entire LP industrial complex and venture capital is everywhere. I'm sure some employees are wondering, when will Stripe go public and under what circumstances? And what's the holdup here? Why aren't you public already?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Shout out Adam Neumann. Come on the prod anytime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
The Stablecoin Future, Milei's Memecoin, DOGE for the DoD, Grok 3, Why Stripe Stays Private
Well, appreciate you guys coming on the program. Come back anytime. You were awesome today. And listen, let's recap what have we learned People got to put some pants on and get back to work. Constraint makes for great art. Stripes going public in 2050. Chamath lost $5 billion not investing. The Culsons read a lot of books. But I'm still kicking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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He's going to fire, fire, fire. South American president shouldn't have their own meme coins. And life finds a way. We are, and you pronounce it Collison, obviously. I say Collison because, you know, we're down the road in Cary and we go and get some eggs and bakey sometimes. Okay. Coming to South by Southwest, brought to you by the Collison brothers and Stripe.
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A all in is headed to the South by Southwest. They're not sponsoring it. I'm joking. All in is headed to South by Southwest on March 13. Me and Freeberg are going to sit down and do our interviews. Two besties on the future of many media and building businesses in this new media ecosystem. We're going to have a casual party, food, drinks, the whole thing. Event is going to be pretty intimate.
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Couple hundred seats. When are you guys doing this? March 13. You opted out. Me and Freeberg want to do it. Oh, it's Thursday. No can do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And it's by application only with a small $30 registration fee of which Stripe will take $19. Go to allin.com slash events to apply. I'm not bitter about it. And programming note, the besties are on a tear. We were on Megyn Kelly last week. And next week, our bestie Friedberg is representing us on... Celebrity Jeopardy. We can't say what happened, but... Get the clips ready.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Get the clips ready. We are going to do a recap of every single question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Perfect. Perfect. There he is. Between Anna Navarro She's from The View, right? Well, she's pretty angry. I've seen clips of her.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Guy's got 160 IQ. The View put together doesn't have 160 IQ.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I just bought this. Don't tell me they got you on pop culture. You're pretty good on pop culture. Oh, no. No comment. Okay, love you guys. I gotta go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, that is the huge win for allowing stable coins and, you know, making them legal, giving them rails, putting aside Tether and all the bands and fugazi stuff they've been doing or have done and all the lawsuits that they've lost and the bands in different countries. Having USDC, having yours and other ones in the United States means we can regulate them and they have to buy treasuries.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And so, OK, dollar supremacy continues. And that's fantastic. But
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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right now all in just using the example could accept payment in stablecoin correct with stripe we just check a button and we get stable coins yes okay so then the next piece i have is we will follow up with you afterwards to make sure we get that going you can do that i'm actually really excited that you guys are going to be sponsoring the all-in summit this year that's actually exciting no freeburg is great at securing the bag yeah
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The thing that's interesting, though, is if let's say we had a millie sitting in our stripe account, and then we had to pay a venue or pay other vendors. And we're sitting there in your coins called bridge. Is that what's going to be called or is called
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Correct. But you'll have a Stripe stable coin at some point, yeah?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Perfect. Now, could we then go pay people from our Stripe account? And then you could lower our fees if they were also doing stable coins? Does that exist today? Or is that something coming next year?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And so we- We can send an invoice to somebody with Stripe. Exactly, exactly. So it's like FreshBooks or whatever those other products in the market are.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
J. Cal, what just happened? Did you just have a moment, an emotional moment? I don't know. You know, I've been trying to get over sacks and it's hard to get over your ex.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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All right, well, more to come, and Saks will be back. Saks will be back, and we will be rotating the fifth seat amongst, you know, friends of the pod and newsmakers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The energy was a little low, but, you know, I mean, it's just, I think, well, what's your- You already had to warn people that this is a- What's your resting heart rate versus we're boys, and then we'll just make a decision.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
All right, listen, Doge is fully operational. Elon and Vivek have helped kill the last-minute omnibus spending bill. Wednesday night, the bill had been killed, and we were looking at the government shutting down starting Friday, December 20th.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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It's called The Imposter Syndrome. Bye. So it's like some French new wave I'm not aware of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Today, when you were listening to this, for some quick background, in September, Congress approved a bill that would keep the government funded through December 20th, the day this episode published. Keep that December date in mind for a second. This Tuesday, December 17th,
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Three days before the deadline, leaders in Congress unveiled what was presented as a bipartisan stopgap bill that would keep the government funded through March 14. That kind of bill is called a continuing resolution, basically give you more time for the incoming GOP majority to reach an agreement on the funding.
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for the government but there are two major problems with the bill it's a rushed job it had to pass the house in the senate by friday night after being presented on tuesday it's absurdly long 1500 pages with 340 billion dollars in spending including pay raises and better health care benefits for the members of congress my lord read the room gentlemen and ladies
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funding for a global engagement center for another year that's the disinformation watchdog group that was wrapped up in the twitter files 130 billion to renew the farm bill for another year 110 billion dollars in hurricane disaster aid just money being thrown everywhere a billion three to replace the francis scott key bridge in baltimore they had some spicy comments on it congress has known about the deadline since they created it in late september he said the urgency
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DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
is 100% manufactured and designed to avoid serious public debate. But serious public debate is exactly what's happening on Twitter. People are screenshotting and using ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini to work their way through these documents. And it looks like this is not going to happen. Freeberg, your thoughts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Of course, with us again, Chamath Palihapitiya, your chairman dictator. How are you doing, Chamath? Nice to meet her. Thank you, sir. Good to see you. You ready for- Excited to see you. Oh, look at this. Three or four besties will be hitting the slopes. Three or four besties will be skiing together.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
It was entrepreneurial, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Aaron, I think we have enough people who are notable now speaking up about this excess spending and the out of control debt, that it's now in vogue to talk about austerity, to talk about inefficiency. And that really all comes back to Doge. And dare I say, you know, the conversations we've been having this podcast for two years, that this is becoming acute.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
$2,000 a night. How many rooms you got with the kids and the fam? You have three? Bro, boxes at all-time highs. Take it easy. What did you do? Did you start buying Bitcoin with your treasury? What do you mean boxes at an all-time high? Are you doing a Michael Saylor or something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
What are your thoughts on this vibe shift, this complete pivot Where we've gone from my lord, everybody's saying, I got to get mine. You got yours. I'm getting mine to name and shame. They're naming and shaming now very specific pieces of pork in these bills, you know, including stadiums for the NFL. And people are like, why is the NFL getting this if they're worth 20, 30, 40 billion dollars?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Oh, you've been building a real business, of course, with us now. Our new fifth bestie, Aaron Levy. He is the CEO of the publicly traded company Box, which means he's got the most to lose by coming here. So welcome back to the program.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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It's all partisan, none of its first principles, right? I mean, for these people, for this group of people, which isn't everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Shabbat, this is a sea change that we're seeing. And to Aaron's point, this administration gets to pick their priorities, but everything can't be a priority or it's not a priority. Therefore, they've picked the priority of smaller government, more controlled spending over, say, mass deportation or removing more rights from women to choose when they have an abortion, etc.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So this seems like a distinctly different focus for Trump 2.0, the second term. What are your thoughts on what we saw this past 72 hours with relation to this bill?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Listen, we're living in an age of meme stocks and people selling convertible notes to buy Bitcoin for their treasury and then becoming a Nasdaq 100. It's that simple. Aaron, when you see a company buy billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin and get added to the Nasdaq 100, what method of suicide do you think of taking your own life with?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So building on what you said, Chamath, also very interesting here is the fact that Trump hasn't taken office yet and they're having this huge impact. This is occurring a month before he's even in office. If they can stop this, what will they do when they actually are in power?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
First buddy. I love that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Well, yeah, so you're referring to a Wall Street Journal story that broke.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah, I mean, it was just, as we said on this pod, we knew that they were hiding him. Now the cover-up is worse than the crime, and the cover-up is a cover-up. They were not letting him take meetings. They were limiting access to him. Dean B. Phillips came on this program. Shout-out to him. Congratulations on a great run. He just told the truth here. He's not up for it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
He's sundowning, you know, terrible situation. People get old and people have cognitive decline.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
If they're going to do, Aaron, and you and I are left leaning moderates, I think that would be the most accurate way to describe us. I mean, if they want to do an investigation, there should be an investigation to did they know that he was in massive cognitive decline and let him stay in charge of the nuclear codes? Do you agree or disagree?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
So, yeah, no, I just wonder if like this is a crime that they like. What if it turns out he actually has Parkinson's or Alzheimer's like a diagnosis? It's not out of the realm of possibility that they covered up an Alzheimer's diagnosis. And if they did, is that criminal? I mean, it's unethical.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Sapuku, you're just going to use the sword, the short blade?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
You're going to hear from him. That is absolutely true. I mean, simple suggestion here, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I have a simple suggestion here with these bills, by the way, when they're 1500 pages, how about for every 100 pages you release, you have one day of review. So if you want to release 1500 pages, 15 business days review, Does that sound reasonable? Maybe three weeks? And then just stop doing 1,500 at a time. Break these things up into 200 or 300 pages at a time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Just do this for me. How much cash does Box have on the books, ballpark?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I just love the fact that people are motivated and they have the will and the desire to focus on these things Focus and desire because people have to have the will and people did not have the will to get in the weeds and examine the spending. And now it's becoming like in vogue. It's becoming a pastime to question the spending. This is a really great moment in time for America.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Contraint leads to great art. Aaron, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Okay, here's what I want to do. A little experiment for next week. Just put 5% of the treasury, 30 million in Bitcoin. And then we'll invite you back in two weeks and we'll see what happens, okay? Just put 5% of the treasury in Bitcoin. Hey, everybody. Here's another announcement, a little housekeeping. As you know, we successfully got the allin.com domain. That was a big victory for us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
All right. Listen, we can't do any worse than being massively in debt. So just let's have a culture of – Yes, we can. No, yes, we can.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah. I think we already have that. I mean, this is for people who maybe are rooting against Trump in the audience or rooting against this because they're super partisan. All I'll say is I know these individuals around Trump. Root for them and root for this process, please, because this is a path to fixing the most acute existential problem we have, which is our debt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
You don't have to like Trump to like Elon, to like Vivek, and to like these other individuals, Sachs included. There are great people who are being called to serve. Let's judge them based on their performance. That's all I ask for the people who hate Trump, who hate these individuals, judge them on their performance. They've come out with a bold plan. Let them cook.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Once they've cooked, then judge their results. That is what I'm telling everybody who hates Trump and who hates this administration and who's partisan on the other side. Let them cook. Judge the results.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
So this is spending, great point, Aaron. Regulations next. Let's see what they do there. I was in the room when Antonio Grossis was doing zero-based budgeting at Twitter, now X, and Sax and I were looking at roles for people
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
What this team can do in terms of making things more efficient, it's amazing what can happen when you do zero-based budgeting and when you just think from first principles, well, do we even need to do this? Does this need to exist? Take all these regulations, put a 20-year clock on half of them, a 10-year clock on the other half.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
And we now have an email list. So four years into this, Meshugana, we now have the ability to take your email address and spam you with all kinds of great information, like a notification when the pod drops. Wow. So compelling. Insights from the besties, who you've had enough of. And first dibs on overpriced event tickets to come hang out with us. Wow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
There you go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
And I'll just give an example. When we went into Twitter, nobody was coming to the office. There were people who hadn't come to the office, who hadn't committed code in six months. So what were they doing, right? So you start looking at the data. Then they were spending an enormous amount of money on SaaS software that nobody had logged into.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
And then they had desk software for route people around that was costing $10 per day, per desk, per location, whatever. Nobody was coming to the office, but they were paying for software to route people to the right desk in office suiting. The waste, when I tell you the waste and the grift, and I'll just call it what my interpretation is, stealing. They were stealing from those shareholders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
The government is stealing from taxpayers. It has to be fixed. Let our boys cook. Freberg, you get the final word before we go on to Conspiracy Corner. You got nothing? All right, let's go straight to Conspiracy Corner. Everybody put your tinfoil hats on. There are drones over New Jersey. Thursday morning, the FAA banned drones.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
It's always worse to start a fight. No, I feel like if shit goes down, I feel like Sax and I would have like... We would have thrown down. We were bulldogs. We would have fought like tooth and nail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
This is breaking news in parts of New Jersey until January 17th due to, quote unquote, breaking news, special security reasons. They also warned that the government may respond with deadly force against drones posing a threat. This thing is getting crazier by the day. There have been thousands of reported drone sightings in New Jersey and bordering states over the last week. Here's some examples.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Play the clip, yada, yada. Until Thursday morning, White House officials have been dismissive, saying repeatedly that nothing significant is going on. One of the theories was that the drones were looking for nuclear material, a.k.a. a dirty bomb, or lost radioactive material, or, the ultimate, a lost nuclear weapon. bomb from like an actual nuclear warhead from Ukraine.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
On Tuesday morning, the mayor of Belleville, New Jersey suggested the drones could be looking for that radioactive material that went missing on December 2nd. That was radioactive material, germanium 68. We'll get details on that from Freiburg in a moment. And then, of course, conspiracy theories are going wild. It's Iran. It's UFOs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
And my favorite, Project Blue Beam, which is that NASA is using holograms and other technology to create a new world order and religion and projecting Jesus into the clouds. You can look that stuff up or we'll have Alex Jones on in Sachse's seat one week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
This is the compelling pitch we have for giving us your emails. So if you'd like to give us your email and get spammed, go to allin.com and let the spam begin. All right. That's out of the way. Saks is out again this week. I don't know what's going on. We've been trying to figure out where he is. He's MIA. If anybody knows.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Who's the motivation?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
People driving?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Oh, you're saying this could be China doing this to try to slow down our economy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I think the first two are probably more likely. Alex Jones would be proud. Alex Jones would be proud. Aaron, why don't you jump the fence and tell us your best conspiracy theory of this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah, take some.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Rogue robot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
No, you have 10 self-driving cars hop the curb and crash into a storefront. Self-driving is on ice for two years. That would be an example. Chamath, your thoughts? You got some conspiracies here? What do you think is going on here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah. Oh, is that what's going on? Did you see all the meetings? I know. I'm being facetious. He's in meetings. Mr. Sachs went to Washington. He's creating waves. But Mr. Sachs is in Washington. Have you guys seen the photos?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Why would they only look at night? Actually, it's interesting you say that. There was somebody on Twitter, X, who claims to be an expert in this field. And there's a startup, actually, that I just talked about. Which one? Kenkoa the Great? I think it might have been Kenkoa the Great. Shout out to Kenkoa the Great in his mom's basement eating pizza bites.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
He's a nice guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Kenkoa tried to get me bad because he said I was trying to dox him. You always...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
He's great. No, I just think it's hilarious that people are retrading Ken Kankoa the Great as if he's like this great journalist and he's in his mom's basement eating Hot Pockets or he's working for Putin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I mean, your conspiracy theory is pretty good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Aaron Levy, you have a favorite? Who are you? Are you Autism Capital or King Koa?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
But if they, there is a startup that makes, I, we really looked it up. And there is a startup that makes drones to do this specific task, to look for dirty bombs in ports. And ports obviously look for these things. It's a known threat. This is not rocket science.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Oh, because that they can read the signatures better was the theory. That at night you can read the signature, which doesn't make sense to me. Science guy, you want to come in here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
That made no sense. That sounded like a crazy thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I'm coming back next week with a better one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Jesus Christ, man.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
No, you do it. Go ahead. No, no, you get the docket in front of you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I try to highlight you guys, make you look good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yes, all 1,500.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I'm not filibustering. All right, listen. Here, let's do another story. Let's see if you can contribute something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Your contribution was amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I was comparing the lyrics from Hamilton the musical. Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Come on. Oh, my God. Can we just end it here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
You want to talk about OpenAI? You do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
All right. Here's an update on closed AI, flipping, and Sam Altman, supervillain Sam Altman, secure in the bag. Meta wrote a letter to California's Attorney General on OpenAI's for-profit conversion two months ago. OpenAI announced a $6.6 billion funding round, $157 billion valuation. They're projecting $3.7 billion in revenue this year. Pretty great revenue growth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
But there's a poison pill in the deal. OpenAI must convert to a for-profit within the next two years, or investors can ask for their money back. And right before they announced this round, you remember CTO Mira said, Muradi and two other top researchers resigned. Many people saw this as a protest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Elon, who put the first 50 million in and co-founded OpenAI, is currently suing the company and seeking a court order that would stop the for-profit conversion. Now, Zuck is joining Team Elon. Elon and Zuck are in some weird pairing up. They're not in the ring, not in the octagon. No. Last week, Meta sent a letter asking California's attorney general to stop opening eyes for profit conversion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
What do you think of this? We've got them now, not in the octagon, but they're in the political arena. Chamath, your thoughts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I know you're very promiscuous when it comes to LLMs as well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Did you see the same thing happen with storage? I remember in the early days, Box and Dropbox and YouTube, you all had this major innovation with storage. And how did that play out?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
How much of your time in the early days was spent on dealing with this infrastructure issue? And then how much of your time and your leadership team's time is spent on this issue now?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Isn't it? Yeah, always. Isn't it also the truth that major enterprises, Fortune 500s, 200s, you know, 20 years ago, weren't interested in open source. And now that's kind of their default, they want to buy into open source because they don't want to be locked into a vendor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
So you believe open source wins?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Right, but in this case, do you think open source is going to ultimately win the day in models?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Got it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Let's pick an Office Suite. Everybody's got one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Why do you think people don't switch, Aaron?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
You know, it's really interesting because, Aaron, you kind of alluded to there's a TAM expansion moment there. And I'm seeing this on the front lines. We run a program, Founding University, I've talked about it here before, where we see people pitching us. They're year zero startups, two or three person teams. And what they're doing is they're not going after existing legacy software.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
They're kind of going after jobs. They're looking at a position or a job somewhere. This is an accountant. We're going to take an accountant. We're going to make the number one accountant in the world that's an AI agent. We're going to make a podcast producer with podcast AI. We're going to make a virtual assistant with Athena. We're just seeing it over and over again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
That's a whole nother category where you study a person's behavior as they work, a social media manager, and what they do, and then you replicate it with AI. And that's something that just hasn't previously been done. So there could be two things occurring here, Chamath and Aaron, at the same time, which is a deflation in legacy systems, and they'll be replaced.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
And then additionally, human capital and jobs that are easy enough for AI to do as an agent will also expand the TAM. Two things at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Let me ask Freebird a question here. You're back in the CEO slot at Ohalo. You're doing it every day, Dave. You're making these choices as to what SaaS products and how you're going to solve problems. Are you looking at it saying, I'm going to hire developers who can work 10x because of all these new tools, and I'm going to build my own internal systems?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Or are you looking and saying, I'm going to buy off-the-shelf SaaS products? What are you doing when you make your own decisions every day? David Freebird.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
A non-developer, you're saying? Non-developer. To stand up software.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah, he likes to win based on product, not on sales effort. Nick, you should find this clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Well, I mean, I'll say the counterbalance to that, which is- It's the game on the field. But here's another part of the game on the field. If these tools make your team 10, 20, 6%, whatever you can quantify, more effective at their jobs- then it's a de minimis amount for most organizations who have created very profitable businesses.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I see this where I was mentioning some companies earlier and their SaaS pricing is broken because the number of employees at a company has been going down because people are getting more efficient. So now they're looking at saying, well, what value do we provide with this podcast, you know, producer in a box and whatever it does? They say they were starting with like $99 a month or $49 a seat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I said, listen, just charge a minimum of $500 to get the software. Nobody complained. and they got rid of the bottom tiers. So there's a value being created here that is so great that I don't think everybody's gonna roll their own like Friedberg, because they're gonna be like, you know what, this is so great, it's 6,000 a year, it, YOLO, I'll just buy it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Yeah, I mean, we've got another decade of evolution here to make these things sustainable and have a high quality. I think it'll happen faster than everyone thinks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Well, I mean, except about Box. I was reading the reviews earlier today and I was on G2 or one of those sites and just Box was just a rating for a tremendous. I love Box. I love Box.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
What's the ticker symbol?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Is it dollar box? Is that what it is? I'm putting a J trade in here because I may have to J trade this. It sounds like a really great opportunity for me. All right, listen. Aaron, you just got Kramer'd.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
My last J trade is I'm loading up on MSTR and Bitcoin. I'm shorting Bitcoin and I'm buying MSTR. I don't know what that is. I'm not trading stocks right now. I'm focused on investing in 100 startups per year. 100 new startups per year. I'm putting the first check into them. That's what I do. All right, listen, enough. This has been a great episode. Aaron, you're amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Thank you for coming on constantly. Everybody follow. Sorry, before we wrap on AI, can I just tell you guys, are you at Levy or at Aaron?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
yeah yeah I love you Livia is that the French pronunciation L-E-V-I-E L-E-V-I-A have you guys seen the VO model from Google yeah have you guys talked about how Google has like gotten some religion Google's incredible they are they are firing on all cylinders I literally pay shout out to Sundar yeah yeah and Sergey's going to work every day by the way he's at work what can Brown do for you J.K.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Sundar back in the group chat okay by the way did you guys see Genesis yesterday well okay let's let me just put this up here and then I'll tee it up to you Freeberg Google has been putting out new models. They have this new Google Gemini, and they have one with Deep Reasoning and their 2.0 model.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I did a side-by-side test, same prompts, with our friends in Deep Madra on This Week in Startups just this week. We did multiple tests. He has the 01 Pro, the $200 per month. Gemini was beating that, hands down, for me. And I think he conceded that with their free model and their $20 model, if we just gave it decent prompts. I think Google now has reached parity and they have an app out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Freeberg, what are your thoughts? Because people were counting them out and here we are. I think not only have they caught up, I think they have exceeded. What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I don't think they're allowed to, is what I heard from the insiders. They have to redo the terms of service to get explicit permission to use it. But you're right. These models are tremendous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Which means you could change the angle, right? And you could work with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Project Mariner is the name of it, right? where your Chrome extension AI can control your browser to do things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Well, yeah, it's amazing when you fire 20,000 people who weren't doing any work and were involved in DEI nonsense, and then you say, hey, don't connect those dots.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
But they were also distracted is my point. They were distracted with nonsense. You know, that's true. Come on. The first version of this came out. It was making Abraham Lincoln, African-American and Bessie Ross was Asian.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
So let me ask you a question then about crypto. You're not into crypto. Crypto is a little bit harder to regulate. So with Sachs being there, what do we think the one, two or three things he could do to actually make crypto not a scam, not have consumers get left holding the bag?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I agree. I'm saying it right now. I think we've hit peak OpenAI in the market. I think they're going to be the number three or four player. I think Gemini... Meta and XAI are going to lead them. If we're sitting here in three years, I think OpenAI is number three, four, or five, not one or two. I don't think they get the one or two slot. What do you think, Aaron?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
OpenAI, who's in the one and two slot?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
What a time to be alive. All right. For the Sultan of Science, David Freeburg, the Chairman Dictator, Jamal Payohapatia, and I don't have a nickname for you, Aaron Levy, but we will have one soon. This is the All In Podcast. We miss you, Saxipoo. We miss you. Come back soon, Saxipoo. Come back soon, Sax. We miss you. All right, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Baggage.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Obviously, sandboxing projects, maybe having people know your customer, some basic regulation there, the sophisticated investor test comes to mind. Chamath, what do you think SAC should do in terms of crypto regulation in the short term, in the near term?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
So there's a good competition in a way, Chamath. It's incredible. Now the banks have somebody to challenge them for money transfer and money storage, and it could be regulated and stable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
All right, everybody, welcome to the number one podcast in the world. With me again today, for better or worse, your Sultan of Science, David Friedberg is back. How are you doing, Friedberg? I see you're a pawn, only a pawn in their game. What's going on with the pawn background? The imposter syndrome. Pawn or queen? Hmm. What is that film? Is that from a movie? What movie is that from?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Aaron, you're shaking your head. This is something that you're experimenting with at Vox or you're aware of or a problem that you recognize.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Well, in regulating, it would get people off of Tether, hopefully, which has a checkered, colorful, sorted pass. You can go look it up. But they've had many, many legal passions against them. I'll leave it at that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I would go stable coins and I would go even before that, the accreditation test that I've been talking about because the SEC has that mandate. People were educated, Aaron. They could buy crypto and know they're going to lose their money or know that something's a fugazi or fugazi, whatever it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
He's superb.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Rain Man, David Sack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Rain man, David Sacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Queen of Kinwada.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Really?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So certainly not- In the same week, we had the Golden Gate Bridge get shut down. The Bay Bridge gets shut down as well. Chamath, your thoughts on these protests, and then obviously the entitlement issues that Freiburg alludes to specifically at Alphabet slash Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Sacks, I don't know if you have any opinions on this. I didn't see anything in the docket. I'm not sure if you have any strong feelings here. But your thoughts on Google employees and the protests, putting aside you know, the nature of the protest. This could be for BLM. This could be for Trump's indictments. You could be protesting any number of things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But the protesting at work issue and then Google specifically, which we talked about with the Gemini issues and, you know, this stuff bleeding over into product. I think Freeberg said it really nicely. Hey, are people actually focused on products at Google anymore? Or is the whole place just focused on social issues that have nothing to do with their waning, apparently, product center?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Great idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, it's just, I was invited. I couldn't make it, so sorry. And thank you to Julia and- Yuri for inviting us again. But it's really great that they're giving it the celebration it deserves and making it, you know, like, dare I say, sexy and cool and hip to be a scientist and solve the world's biggest problems. I think it's just so awesome. And you're right, Sergey Brin and Wojciechowski
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Interesting question, you know, putting aside what they're protesting about, I think they knew, or some number of them knew they were going to get fired. So I think they're kind of resigning by sit-in. And I think, yeah, there could be nobility to that. If you do not want to participate in in supporting things in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You do not have to work at Google and you can protest and you can get fired. And we've seen some pretty intense protests. I don't know if you guys are aware of like what Greenpeace and other environmentalists did to stop whaling. I'm sure you are aware, Friedberg, for your passion on the subject. Those people went to jail in Japan for boarding Japanese whaling ships.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Those are really intense protesters. But then to your point, Shamath, you can really hurt your cause. Climate activists have been throwing paint on works of art. I don't know if you've seen that. And that's just infuriating. I have no tolerance for people destroying works of art or attempting to get attention. Here, it is benign to sit in an office and get fired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Sak and Priscilla and Julia and Yuri are the founders of the Breakthrough Prize.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So I just consider it resigning by sit-in. If they want to do that, that's fine. I do think there is something to Google enabling all this, to your point, Friedberg, over time. And listen, they were parodied on Silicon Valley, the TV show, because of how coddled and entitled people are. So there's a bunch of things going on at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And if you want to do these intense protests, you have the right to do them. And history will judge you over time. But you need to be able to pay the price. In this case, the price is getting fired. In the case of shutting down the Golden Gate Bridge, you should get a fine for doing that, I believe. And the fine should be based on whatever that costs to shut that bridge down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And that's got to be a serious fine. And you're right, Chamath. People, if there's an emergency situation, somebody's got to get to a hospital or something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm also shocked that these people actually came to an office. I mean, these Googlers, I don't think they've actually been to an office before. They probably had to check that their badges were.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You know, it dovetails nicely with the discussion you all had last week about would you back Not a defensive, but an offensive weapons company, a technology company. And it seemed like you all had reservations on if you would not back a defensive one. Anybody, I think, reasonably would back a defensive dome or interception of bombs coming in. That's an easy one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But going around the horn here, how many of us would back a company making missiles or bombs that blow people up or mines?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They should say, I'm proud to get fired because that's how much I believe in it. My stock options at... Google are less important than this issue to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Mission accomplished for them. We're talking about it here as the top story. And, you know, if that was their, if they wanted to raise awareness, they succeeded and they should just own their firing because they knew they would get fired, I think. All right. There has been a ton of chaos and the culture wars continue over NPR.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
A couple of things happened simultaneously this week that are worth discussing. Catherine Marr was named NPR's new CEO back in January. I'm going to have to give a little bit of a timeline here before I get comments from the boys because there's a little setup. And so she was named the CEO back in January. She officially started in March. Okay, she formerly worked at Wikimedia Foundation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Those are the people who run the Wikipedia, obviously. NPR's mission, if you don't know, is to create a more informed public, one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas, and culture. That's their stated mission from their website.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
On April 9th, Uri Berliner, an editor who's been with NPR for 25 years, wrote an op-ed for Barry Weiss's Free Press, friend of the pod, explaining how NPR lost America's trust by going hard left and becoming close-minded. He said, quote, an open-minded spirit no longer exists within NPR. And now, predictably, we don't have an audience that reflects America.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Last Friday, Maher put out a statement calling his actions profoundly disrespectful, hurtful, and demeaning. This Sunday, conservative activist Christopher Ruffo, he's the person who exposed former Harvard president's Claudine Gay's plagiarism. He's a vocal critic of LGBTQ stuff. At schools, started reposting old tweets from Maher, this new CEO.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And I was like, I can't find my chicken fingers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Her tweets are super far left, Trump's a racist, yada, yada. There's an interesting clip of her talking at TED, talking about how truth is a bit of a distraction. And that prevents people from getting things done. People have gotten pretty inflamed about that clip. And then on April 16th, Berliner was suspended for five days without pay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The people at that thing were.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Wrapping this all up, Berliner then resigned after 25 years, saying, quote, I cannot work in a newsroom where I am disparaged by a new CEO whose divisive views confirm the very problems that NPR I cite in my free press essay. Sacks or thots?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Why has this become the topic of the moment?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I agree. It's like a tempest in a teapot, like newsflash. NPR is woke and left-leaning. I mean, I guess maybe that somebody who was there for 25 years wrote the expose is interesting or I don't know. Chamath, any thoughts on this one and why it's taking up so much headspace for people?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
This is just to give people some back of the envelope math. NPR's budget is like 320 million. It's a dollar per American. And they get a bunch of programming fees and some corporate sponsorship. The corporate sponsorship is like 100 million bucks. The programming fees is what the local radio stations pay them. Net-net, this is costing like maybe, I don't know, 30 cents an American.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And if you just swap out, and this is the way I like to look at these to be objective, If you were saying this was funding Fox News or, I don't know, Ben Shapiro and Daily Wire, how would you feel about it? You'd be like, well, why is the government funding that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They should just cut NPR and all this public broadcasting stuff loose over the next year or two, wind it down, and let them fend for themselves in the new media landscape.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. I mean, it's only like they're down to whatever. It's very hard to find the numbers. There's a little like hiding of the money here. But there's so little at stake here. I think that's why it's so contentious.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The next Tempest in a teapot... Is Humane's AI pin getting barbecued by our modern-day Walt Mossberg? Marques Brownlee, who is an awesome YouTuber, I love his reviews. Let's create a bit of a social media Rorschach test here. getting a lot of feels from people in Silicon Valley. Let's just tee this up here. Humane is a hardware startup that you may have heard of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They make an AI-powered wearable computer. It's basically a pin you put on your chest. It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes, maybe half the size of it. It was founded by two Apple execs back in 2018. Raised a quarter of a billion dollars or so. And the device is now in the hands of reviewers. It's pretty innovative. And Marquez talks about how innovative it is in his review.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It will let you talk to it. It's got a camera on it. We'll show it here on the screen. If you're not subscribed to the YouTube channel, just go to YouTube right now and you'll see us playing the video of it. Search for All In. And really interesting interface. It does obviously voice. It connects you to an LLM on the back end.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The breakthrough prize. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't make it. I got invited to. It's so incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So if you want to know, you know, some piece of information, it can answer those questions for you. But Marquez showed it. just absolutely failing at a bunch of tests, being overpriced, and he called it the worst product he's ever reviewed. It's very thoughtful and methodical, but the title is obviously a bit link baiting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
As a co-founder of Engadget, I can tell you, if you want to get a lot of clicks, just say something is the best or the worst ever, and you can get 10 times the views. The pin, according to him, doesn't do anything better than a smartphone. It's slow. It doesn't work. It's often wrong. It's 700 bucks. The battery sucks. So many different ways to go with this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Everybody is talking about it on X and in the media. Where do you stand on this one, Friedberg? both on how people are responding to it in the tech industry as being like anti-tech, anti-innovation versus, hey, it's just a reviewer giving his candid feedback on a product that's clearly not ready for prime time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, sure. You called ****** and rerouted it? I called ****** and said, ****** can't get his chicken tenders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I think that's your key point, Freeberg. That is the best point is these folks come from Apple. They're used to unlimited resources. And what you don't see is all the product Apple doesn't release, right? They never released their car, correct, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You're laughing hysterically at this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Got it. In other words, the reviewers are going to review products and you just got to plow ahead and make a better product.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Here's an idea for the humane team. Be thankful somebody took the time to review your product and give you candid feedback and incorporate it back into your product and make it work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, what are the other high IQ foods?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Actually... I was having a pulled pork sandwich from Bucky's and it helped me solve Wordle for the day before I ate it. So I got Wordle in two tries. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, that one landed. I didn't want that one to land. Yeah, I mean, okay, let me ask this question. Do we think the world, let's say this thing did respond in one second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Right. That's the entitlement is that you don't have enough work on your plate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Tramon's got a CEO job and now he's got to work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
If you're on YouTube, he's kind of like the new Walt Mossberg. He does 20, 30 minute videos. They get millions of views. He's huge. I don't know that he makes or breaks a product, though, by the way. He does not make or break a product. The product makes or breaks itself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So if the car breaks down, the car breaks down. And by the way, Marquez got a little bit of heat just a month ago because he reviewed the Fisker. The Fisker is just a piece of garbage car. He said it's the worst car he's ever reviewed. And you know what? Reviewers exist in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
to inform customers about what products and services they should buy, and then they should inform you to make a better product, period, full stop. There is an easy solution to this, by the way, which Apple... did. They released the Vision Pro as a developer kit. They put a bunch of caveats on it and said, hey, we understand this is high priced. It's a developer kit. This is in beta.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
What Humane should have done is they should have said, this is the Humane beta for developers. I still don't know what it is. What is this? Okay. It's a wearable. It's a square. It has a projector on it. You put your hand out. It projects a little screen that shows you like a computer screen and you can talk to it and ask questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It's taping everything that it sees. It doesn't do that by default, but it could.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Because LLMs suck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Fantastic. How are you doing, Sax? You okay, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And by the way, most importantly to you, Chamath, it will screw up your fabrics. If you wear this with a Laura Piana sweater, it's going to drag your sweater down. Hold on. You would never attach it to a $6,000 sweater.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, basically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You look like a lunatic. Yes. You're walking around like a crazy person talking to yourself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
He's coming on the program, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
There it is, folks. We're back. It's going to be a hell of a show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. Listen, the concept, I think, is good. Wearables are going to provide some distinct value when they work because you don't have to take your phone out. And so the idea behind wearables, like your watch, is, you know, like there are some things I do on my watch now where I don't take my phone out. I'll take the other side of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I use Fitbit. company we invested in and it puts all my workouts on my watch when I'm doing weights. I started doing weights now that's why I look so buff folks. Subscribe to the YouTube channel to see And I do my sets and I log them all with my, my watch. I don't have to take my phone out. That's like the first thing. And then when I'm skiing, I can see each run. I showed you slopes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm not an investor in Chamath where I could see my speed and all that stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. I don't know that everybody will have wearables, but I do find a couple of little things that work for me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
That's why people tweet in. It's the banter.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
How are you doing, Freebird? We got a little scene from the movie, Her. Wow. We're off to a strong start here. Look at all these contributions. I got a shrug from Freeburg. I got a grunt from Saks. Okay, let's get started from Saks. I don't talk about my backgrounds. Let's go. Anything good on the menu tonight, Shamath? I'm coming over for poker. I wanted to know if there's any. Octopus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Did any of you guys read Jonathan Haidt's book, Anxious Generation? It is unbelievably awesome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm not right yet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Stop what you're doing and just listen to the audio book on your walks on Audible. This book is super important and awesome. The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt. I cannot tell you how important it is. Sax, any closing feelings here? You have a take? Any hot takes?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And that was a complaint about this device specifically was that it was detached from the phone. I understand why they want to make it standalone, but And then this opens up all the privacy. Let me ask the panel here, what do you think about this concept of recording the entire world, all these conversations and video with these devices?
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I think it's a quick way to get yourself punched in the face. I mean, we saw that with Google Glass. People showed up at bars in San Francisco and parties with these Google Glass things on and literally got punched in the face.
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In Jonathan Haidt's book, he talks about phone lockers for schools and the transformative power they have had. When you go to a school, there are some schools now, high schools, where the students put their phones in specific phone lockers.
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Oh, so the Greek comes back and you get the octopus.
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They should ban these devices at schools, 100%. And then at the poker game tonight, we should make people stack their phones and charge somebody $1,000 whoever takes the phone first.
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Let's do it tonight.
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Yep. Yeah, you have the DVR of your entire life.
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And it is gnarly to think these things will exist. And I think humanity is going to have to make a decision, I think, to fight this or embrace it. I think we should fight it. I think it's going to ruin...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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uh like social existence and it's already ruined poker games etc when everybody's on their phone it's ruined dinner parties when everybody's on their phones the constant distraction is just horrific and it's having a horrible impact on this generation i'll double down on what you're saying it is so lovely to be able to have a dinner where everybody just talks to each other and looks each other in the eyes yes and then when you have a handful of people always on their phone it's depressing
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I am trying to come up with ways to remove these devices from the social settings. I mean, I've been to a couple of parties with high profile people where they have everybody check their phones at the valet in the door. I gotta say, those are the best nights of my life.
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They're incredible. And no offense to people who are addicted to their phones. I am to a certain extent. I put my social media at one hour on my phone. My Lord, it is hard to do less than an hour of social media in our job positions.
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It just shows you how the algorithm is such a key component of that TikTok experience because I had the same experience Shorts serves up garbage. Garbage. Instagram serves up garbage. And then TikTok is just like right into your brain. Kicks ass. It kicks ass. By the way, I want to give another shout out to a book. I miss TikTok. TikTok, I miss you. Yeah, whatever. That's going away. I miss you.
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Another incredible book. I think we should book this speaker for All In Summit. Bad Therapy, Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up. Abigail Schreier. This book is incredible. And if you read these two books, every parent... Read these two books. And we need to have a conversation on it as parents here. Everybody read these two books. These are my two top choices for the all-in summit.
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Hooli. Yeah. You know what? It's interesting you bring that up. I had a grilled octopus stand at one of our events, and somebody who is a conscientious consumer of calories lobbied me to take the grilled octopus off of the menu. I won't say who. For what? Wait, what? I got lobbied very strongly.
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I think it's going to be the topic of our time. All right, let's keep going down this incredible docket. Very important issue for us to talk about. Silicon Valley startups having a bit of a R&D tax problem. Thanks for putting it on the docket here, Freeberg. It's a bit inside baseball, but very important topic.
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Let's say a company like Acme Corporation generated a million bucks in revenue, and they spent a million bucks on their software developers last year. Let's say they had, I don't know, five developers getting paid 200 grand each. Well, traditionally, this company would pay nothing in income tax, right?
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They spent a million, they deduct that million from the million dollars in revenue that came in, and everything's good. But due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, Starting last year, a provision kicked in forcing companies to amortize their R&D expense over five years. So in this hypothetical situation, the Acme Corporation would amortize 200K a year and pay income tax on the 800K in profits.
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This is brutal, obviously.
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Air quotes, profits, correct. And this is absolutely brutal. And a lot of companies took away agency approaches, hoping Congress would fix the issue in January, a bipartisan tax bill that would reverse these changes passed in the House. But the bill has stalled in the Senate. And we got to get this thing fixed because it's going to sink a lot of startups.
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Maybe people will start putting their companies in other countries. But it's attached to this child tax credit, which Republicans don't want to pass. So no reversal has happened. Freeberg, you highlighted this for us. Very important topic. Thank you for doing so. as our great contributor here. What are your thoughts on it?
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And also, how do you define R&D? I was talking to an accountant. He's like, yeah, I don't know if that's R&D. I'm like, you don't know if it's R&D? Like, okay, so if I need some piece of software...
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Okay.
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Yeah, but if I do bug fixes, is a bug fix R&D, if I make a new feature in an application this year, does it have to be amortized over five years? Have I put a new filter on my Photoshop?
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We're trying to kill innovation in this country. And the two things they've got to solve is this one and then M&A. We've got to have a... better solution for allowing companies to be bought and sold in this or merge in this country. These two things are putting a lot of headwinds on the startup ecosystem and on the venture and the risk taking capital ecosystems.
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If you're in Washington, DC, or you're involved in our government, please solve these two issues. You got to figure out a way to allow companies to be bought and sold. You got to figure out a way to fix this tax issue, or else we're gonna kill a lot of startups, and these are the companies that pay a lot of taxes, and these are the capital gains that fund a lot of states' treasuries.
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unintended consequences are very real. Chamath, you were gonna say something?
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This is not financial or accounting advice. Get great representation.
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All right, sports betting has gone mainstream. If you don't know, two out of three college students have placed a bet in the last year since the Supreme Court struck down the Amateur Sports Protection Act. 38 states have legalized sports betting. I think that's a great thing, but we're starting to see some weird behavior because of it.
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Tons of sites like DraftKings, FanDuel, ESPN, BET, BET MGM, all of these have broken out. But this week, we started to see some weird behavior. The NBA banned a 24-year-old player, Jonte Porter, for life after a scandal. This one is bizarre and interesting. Porter was bench player for the Toronto Raptors, averaging about 14 minutes per game. It's important.
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On these gambling apps, you can do all kinds of prop bets. For those of you who don't know, prop bets could be things like Steph is going to hit $5.
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threes in the game or lebron's going to score under 30 points you're just betting on unique things that could happen and then you can parlay them together you can put multiple bets together and it automatically gives you a price and you can do really you know deep wagers doing this The NBA found out that Porter was telling people to bet his unders for points and rebounds during certain games.
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During those games, he'd play a few minutes, then check himself out of the game with an illness, quote unquote. Technically, the bet would still count since he played the game, but everybody who bet his unders would win. Normally, nobody would notice this, of course, because he doesn't play that much. He's a bench player. But DraftKings, because they have all the data,
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tipped everyone off because Porter was the biggest moneymaker on March 20th. This led to an NBA investigation. DraftKings will give you a leaderboard of the biggest bets, and they saw that somebody placed an $80,000 bet that Porter would hit the unders on a bunch of different categories. Crazy outlier bet. DraftKings canceled the bet.
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The NBA found that Porter separately placed dozens of bets on NBA games using his friend's accounts. winning a whopping $22,000. And this idiot now is banned from life from the NBA, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. But obviously, the NBA has the receipts with DraftKings.
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Yeah, it's kind of like the fat content. You know, it's kind of like the marbling. It's the marbling. It's the marbling of it.
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Chamath, you owned a NBA team for a little while, and you watched as David Stern, for a decade, you watched as David Stern, who was absolutely opposed to to gambling. And then Adam Silver embraced it. Tell us from your front row seat, your thoughts on wagering in the NBA. And wagering writ large.
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Oh, yeah. By the way, thanks, guys. Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, I'm great. I'm feeling great. Yeah, the tooth is healed. I got the implant. You look like you've been eating well. Just only things with above 120.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So compare that to, Chamath, what would happen previously before sports betting was legal in the U.S.,
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Do you agree with the lifetime ban or do you think this should be?
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Has to be for the NBA to have integrity. Has to be. Yeah, it's really. And what do we think about this becoming legal in the US and people embracing?
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Well, no, no. You know what I did was I got off the Wagovi so I could eat more animals. And now I'm getting back on it because I feel so terrible about how many, I was in Austin. I ate everything. Jake, let me ask you a question. Yeah, go ahead.
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We know some of those people and it's hard for them to control their sports betting, blackjack playing, other things. They get too into it.
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But other societies, other geos, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK, they've had this for a while, so they've figured out how to deal with this.
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And I will tell you, Sax, I'm interested in your position on this because there is a whole system, an ecosystem emerging here. The states are getting massive amounts of revenue. $11 billion generated last year. up 44.5% from 2022. The league is printing money from this, all the leagues. The NBA will generate $167 million from betting this season, up 11% year over year.
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The sports books, obviously killing it. DraftKings got a $20 billion market cap. And bettors obviously love it. It's more fun. It's making the games more engaging. And the media is loving this. All of the podcasts, Bill Simmons, ESPN, you can't watch a game, you can't hear sports commentary without this being integrated. And it's being integrated at a very fundamental editorial level.
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They're asking the host of these shows their spend and what they're betting on.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. This is why the Greeks invented so many things. We invented math, plumbing, cities, democracy. All the great things the Greeks created comes from the fact that we ate so many high IQ creatures. Correct.
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It's like the new Air Jordans. Sax, what do you think about this just in terms of on a societal basis and the United States... It's sort of like cannabis. This is a new thing for Americans to have access to. There's a lot of weird behaviors going on, edge cases.
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But what do you think, net-net, as a society, you take away from the emergence of sports betting and this next generation being so addicted to it?
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Freeberg, you have any thoughts? You place any bets, Freeberg? You place any bets on sports? I'm curious. I do not. You do not. I don't place bets on sports, but I love playing cards because it's social. Chamath, do you do any sports betting now and again? Maybe on the Super Bowl you get once in a while, you place a bet, a wager?
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That was my exact take, too. Zach, do you ever place any bets? You're not a wager on this stuff either, right? Yeah. You ever bet on chess? Is there any gambling?
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Last time I was 1400, I stopped playing him because he would just, I would get to the middle game with Sax. I get like 30 moves in and then he would just smash me. I'm like 800 or something.
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I don't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to talk.
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Are you still upset about the octopus stuff?
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What's the best way to get better? Should I get a coach or something, Sax? What's the best way to get better?
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Like you learn how to do a night fork or something like that, how to do pins.
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Oh, you were over a thousand?
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I mean, I see a vegetable and I push it away. I'm like, wait a second.
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You feel shame. If you want to get. better at chess.
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I think it's really cool that kids are learning this. I know this may be a counter or a contrarian view, but I think kids having access or young adults having access to sports betting, poker, is kind of a good thing if controlled because they're learning about odds and gambling and framing it. I, with my 14-year-old, am doing an allowance. And then I decided to do an investment club.
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And so I'm putting $100 every month into like a Robinhood account. And we're going to do like two meetings every month, one to buy a new stock and one to examine our existing stocks. And I'm just starting an investment club.
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It's not inaccurate. The barbecue in Austin is so spectacular. Terry Black's beef ribs. I had with a friend of ours, man, they're just dynamite. And then the salt lick brisket, Franklin's brisket. I mean, it is just extraordinary. Shout out to all my barbecue folks there and sorry for triggering.
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So if anybody's kids are in that age group and they want to join it, let me know because I'm going to do like with the cousins, like a Zoom call every month where we just talk about stocks. And then I'm going to have them actually buy it. so that they can be prepared for the real world and how companies are going. But how do you think about your kids, Chamath?
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Because you got to do this gambling when you were young. Didn't that help you ultimately as an adult?
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Anybody else run an illegal business as a kid? I'll tell you about mine after. Zach, do you run any illegal businesses as a kid?
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Come on, it's statute of limitations. What did you do? You must have been running some scams. Come on, tell us.
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What'd he do? Did he have to do your term papers or something? Did he have to do your essays and clean your bike?
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I wouldn't have gotten this guy's money.
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Come on, Sax, give it up. What was your scam you were running as a kid?
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Let's move on.
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I had two scams. Freeberg, you have a scam when you were running? When you were a kid? Any scams?
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I had two really good scams when I was a kid. The first was this guy owed my dad some money for backgammon. My dad was a backgammon shark, and he would play in his bar. When I would show up at 6 in the morning, my dad would be playing blackjack with guys. They would get in deep with him. And so this guy who was in the mob owed my dad some money.
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And for the VIG, he gave him a copy of The Empire Strikes Back on VHS. And I was like, what? This is before it was out. They had recorded it in the movie theaters in 1984 or something, whenever that came out. And it was a really bad copy. So my dad comes home. He gives me the copy. We watch it. It was incredible. He's like, thanks, Dad. And I got my friend to bring over his VHS.
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I made 10 copies of it. I go to school, McKinley Junior High School in Brooklyn, and I sell them for 30 bucks a pop. Oh, my God. Selling like hotcakes. And then I get pinched. Math teacher says, what's going on with these Empire Strikes Back? And I said, what do you mean? I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, I heard you got Empire Strikes Back. He kept your mouth shut.
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I looked him dead in the eye and I said, are you interested? The teacher goes, yeah. How much are they? I said, 30 bucks, but I'll give you one for 10. And he said, okay, pull that 10 bucks. I sold my math teacher. I kid you not, the Empire Strike back for 10 bucks. Can you do this whole thing again, but in the Christopher Walken voice? I'm not going to, but I'll give you the other one I did.
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The thing that took out the rib was the bison. I'm sorry I was away. Apologies to the audience. It took out a tooth. You know, as far as I feel, worth it. What does a bison rib taste like?
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Do this one in the Christopher Walken voice. And so the name of it was Jason's Hot Tapes. And so I made a business card and laminated Jason's Hot Tapes. And I would hand it to people and I'd hand them the Jason's Hot Tape card. And I'd say, give me my card back. But I would just show them that I had a card. Oh, that reminds me, I was also in the fake ID business.
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Here's the thing about the fake ID business. The bouncers were like, if you've got money, show us any piece of paper. They knew.
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That was the, that's the key to the racket. Did you put McLovin and University of Hawaii?
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You don't even remember. Mine was like, Raj Patel.
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All right, so I'll give you the second one. Do it in the Christopher Walken voice. So my friend, his brother had a DeLorean. He... I can't do it. I can't sustain it. Anyway, this kid who I grew up with... I should say. Anyway, his name was beep that out. He lived up on 13th Avenue. I go to his house. His brother's got a DeLorean. It was incredible.
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Man, the beef ribs are very tender. The bison's got a little more chew to it. It's got a little more texture. And they let this thing go at the salt lick for like 12 hours. And they're just barbecue saucing it forever. It's a little chewy. And so that's what took out the tooth. But great job, Freeberg, on moderating. The episode was fantastic.
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And we're in junior high school and I'm talking to his brother and I go into the garage and there's all DeLorean parts on the wall. And I said, why do you have all these parts? And he said, oh, you know, there was a DeLorean that, you know, fell apart. And we picked up the pieces. They had stolen another DeLorean because DeLorean stopped producing. And they just chopped it up.
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But he had it in his garage. So anyway, we're playing Chessmaster at the time. And I had hacked a copy of Chessmaster. It was very easy to do. And the guy said, you got Chessmaster? Can you get me more copies of that? I said, sure. How many copies do you want? He's like, how many can you make? I was like, well, floppy disk costs four bucks. He's like, I'll give you 10 bucks a copy of Chess Master.
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I said, fine. I go, my friend, we go steal floppy disks from the store. So we don't want to pay the four bucks for them. Not the three and a half, the five and a quarters. These are five and a quarters. And we go into the store and we take the flyer And I hold the flyer open, and I hold it behind my back, and my friend takes the discs out of the sleeve at Staples or whatever, dumps them in there.
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We made copies of it. And then we were selling Chessmaster for $10 a pop at scale and giving them to the guys on 13th Avenue who were then reselling them for $20. This is when Chessmaster was like a $100 product. Shout out to Chessmaster. That was my second scam business.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. And that's not even the best one. I'll give you the best one. This is the best, and I'll give you the last scam we ran. There were parking permits in the late 80s in Manhattan. They were hard to get, but they were legit. If you had a parking permit in your window for the fire department, police, you know, you could park in Manhattan in a lot of different areas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And so we went and we took a picture of these. Then we got on PageMaker or whatever. And I went down to Canal Street and I bought at Pearl Paints, like the same color orange and that lamination kit. And we got on Photoshop. I kid you not, we held the picture up and we tried to figure out the fonts they used. And we made a copy. of the placards to park.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And then we sold those for like 50 bucks and people used them and they wouldn't get tickets. They worked. So we sold police placards that had to be super illegal in 1988. All right, everybody. For your sultan of science, the exception, David Friedberg, your chairman dictator, Jamath Palihapitiya, the rain man, yeah, David Sachs, I am. You're our world's greatest moderator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
J. Cal, we'll see you on episode 176 and hopefully in September at the All In Summit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yes, I was chomping on the bit quite literally, Sax, to talk about some stuff. Chomping on the bit to the point that I shattered a tooth. But I am back, and I have so much energy. I missed you guys. I actually missed y'all. Freeberg, so much good stuff happening with the summit. And I'm delighted that John is doing all this work. You are doing all this work. And I can just sit back and enjoy it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So tell us, is there an update on the summit?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Okay, so alumni automatically get in? Alumni automatically are in. Okay, and then tell us about the scholarship because I'm getting bombarded and everybody who's an up and coming All In fan. We're going to announce it in a couple of weeks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It's less than 10.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I saw a couple of speakers come in. There's two.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Oh, come on. Can we just tell the two speakers who said yes? Come on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The Saks landed a big speaker, and I think it's going to be awesome. In a week. In a week, we'll announce a bunch together. Listen, well, one thing I don't want to wait on is today's docket, because it is unbelievable. Welcome, everybody, to episode 175. That's right. It's episode 175 of your favorite podcast, and... The largest and most listened to podcast in the world, officially.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Episode 175 of the All In Podcast starts right now. And, ah, I've got so many feelings about this one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm manifesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm manifesting, Chamath. Just like Phil Hellmuth is the world's greatest poker player. And then we watch Robo roll over him. Is that a new word that narcissists use for lying? Manifesting? No, it's just like, you know, the world's greatest poker player. And then we see Phil Hellmuth get dominated by Jason Kuhn.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I mean, Kuhn and Roble and then the world's greatest Hellmuth playing is so great to watch. It's like a meta ego battle. It is. And those, you know, it's interesting. Two of those three guys are like the most humble guys you would ever meet in your life. Am I correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And if you were honestly going to rank the three of them in a high-stakes cash game, could you just handicap it for the audience? Because we're in the lucky position, you and I, to play with these three epic players in the world. Break down how they play in a home game like ours.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I am so excited to be back at the game tonight. All right, listen, the docket is so great this week. We've got a great classic all-in docket. I want to start with Google firing 28 employees who were involved in this protest at their offices. We didn't think that this would happen. We were having a discussion on the group chat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
On Tuesday, about a dozen employees engaged in sit-ins at the company's offices in Sunnyvale and New York City, protesting. the conflict in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine. And so they took over, literally took over the offices of the CEO of Google Cloud, and nine employees were arrested after refusing to leave.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The protest was organized by a group called No Tech for Apartheid, and they posted a bunch of clips of this sit-in on X. Those 28 employees were fired on Wednesday after a quick investigation. The VP of Global Security, was pretty direct and candid. I mean, this is based. They took over office spaces, defaced our property, and physically impeded the work of other Googlers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Behavior like this has no place in our workplace, and we will not tolerate it. If you're one of the few who are tempted to think we're going to overlook conduct that violates our policies, think again. So what were the protests about? Google is involved in a project, Nimbus, a $1.2 billion cloud contract with Israel's government.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Both Google and Amazon are involved in the project, which was announced in 2021. Google has denied it was doing work for the military, saying it was working with departments like finance, healthcare, transportation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
There's a lot of details to this, but let's start with you, Freeberg, since you were a Googler, and we've been talking about the culture of Google, putting aside what the protests were about. How do you feel about protests in the workplace? We've talked about it before here with Coinbase and others.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And then is this a distinct change in tone that I'm hearing from Google that they've had enough of social activism at the office?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
All right, everybody, welcome to your favorite podcast in the world's number one podcast, the all-in podcast. It's episode 1,790. Oh, wait, that's just how it feels. Welcome to episode 179. With me today, of course, is your sultan of science. I don't know if that's a movie background or it's just his favorite vegetables. What's going on there? What's the crop?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It can also participate in Zoom calls, explain charts, all that great stuff. And so it's going to be your guide on the side. It's going to be a present personality while you're using your apps. It's really impressive, I have to say. So I guess let's start, Freeberg, with your takeaways on all of these innovations that we saw.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Chamath, any thoughts after seeing it and in combination with our interview, do you think ChatGPT is running away with the consumer experience? Or do you think this is like neck and neck with some of the other players?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Any insights as to why it might be plateauing in your perspective?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Okay, and here it is, ChatGPT web visits, as you can see, have plateaued. This data is similar web. I would agree with you, Jamath. It seems like the use cases and the looky-loos who were just trying the software, because they heard about it, They've gone away, and then we have to find actual use cases. Sacks, I'm wondering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yes, paid, paid version. Well, yeah, so to be clear, paid versus free. And then what Sam said on the podcast last week was, it seems like whenever they come out with something new, the old stuff becomes free. In my talk with Sonny this week, he mentioned that these new models are so much more efficient that you actually can throw the old model in the garbage. Garbage. Because it's so inefficient.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And these are now becoming about 90% cheaper every year, which means every two years, these things are gonna be 99% cheaper and better. Yep, yep. And it might be that OpenAI SACS on a strategic level is going to make all this free or close to free and maybe just charge for multiplayer version. That seems to be where it's heading. You don't have to log in to use 3.5. You don't have to log in
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
to use Google service? No, you do have to log in still on Google services, but I think these are going to just be free. So on a product basis, what are your thoughts? And then maybe you could talk about free to pay. Do you think everybody in the world is going to pay 20, 30, 40 bucks, 500 a year, 200 a year to have one of these? Or are they just going to all be free?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It's Omni, which means all the different media types currently coming in, right? That's the difference. It's not like you just give it an image or give it a video. It's absorbing all those at the same time in parallel, I believe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
This thing is moving so fast. They're in like Leonardo DiCaprio mode. Every two years, they throw the old model away. Okay. Let's keep... Thank you. Sacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Is this thing on? Did you write that ahead of time? I was in the moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, I mean, that is the thing of this pace. You used to have to throw away client-server stuff or... whatever, you had a web-based thing, you get an app out, you throw away some of the old code. But this is like every 18 months, your work has been replaced.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, you don't have to have too much FOMO because Phil sent the entire group chat to pokernews.com. They did an article on the group chat. Run it twice. Theflop.org.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I mean, listen, you were there when I think you were there at Facebook when they did the open compute project and they just were like, sorry, guys, talk about talk about torching an entire market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, and I just showed it on the screen. Sax, you've actually been dancing along this line. Last night, I was using your new Slack killer or co-exister. I'm not sure. It feels like a Slack killer to me because I'm moving my company to it on... Over the weekend, we're moving to Glue. Nice. And you and I were doing some very... I may need to wet my beak on this one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It feels like a hundred bagger to me. I'm in. It is a lot killer. That's the way we're thinking about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I need to wet my beak. It feels like a hundred X sliding 500. Wow. Sacks, tell me about product decisions. Where does the AI end? And your product begins.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Brian's my guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I want to hire Brian. If I got to get Sachs, I go Daniel and Brian. Boom, boom, boom. That's how I get Sachs on the line. Okay, you take Daniel.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Hold on a second. Sachs, I just looked at the chat GPT-4 Omni server, and when you did that query, it actually rolled its eyes. Keep going.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Say more.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
How woke is this? Have you put any rails on it, or is this just pure ChatGPT 4.0 combined with the data?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
The good news is it wasn't actually his birthday. It was Bill Gurley's, so he just hijacked Bill Gurley's birthday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So we were the- When you get into Slack too much, people start to think Slack is the job. And replying to Slacks and having conversations is the job when there's actually a job to be done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, and so it's important. And what I liked about this implementation facts was it's like the ability to make a feed or a data source inside of your communication platform. So the fact that you imported all of the episodes and the transcripts is great. But what I want is like our HubSpot or our CellCRM. I want our Zendesk. I want our LinkedIn jobs and our LinkedIn job applications.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I want our Notion. I want our Coda. to each have the ability. And when I was using it last night, what you do is you use the at symbol to evoke and to summon in a way. It's like summoning Beetlejuice. So you summon your AI, but then you tell it what data set you want to go after. So you say, you know, at AI, let's talk about, I don't know, How do you manage your deal flow at Kraft?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Do you use software like CRM software to manage deals? Brian, Daniel.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So we have a discussion about sales. And then you might have a sales bot that says, hey, by the way, nobody's called this client in three months.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
AI generated crop. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, I mean, it is kind of in the name. Like, this is glue. Put you together. And Slack is where you Slack up. Makes total sense. The brands give you a little bit of a tip. We should have seen it coming with Slack. Totally. We have a breaking news story. It's a breaking news story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I got breaking news coming in. Friedberg, your life's work. Sax did his product review. Now it's your turn, Friedberg. We got breaking news coming in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I go lengthwise. I go like this and I try to see.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Your fans are going to be crushed that you're not doing deep movie polls with us. Of course, man about town, DC, new products being launched. David Sachs, the rain man. Yeah. How you doing, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And so you'll see... Per hectare or something like that, like the Dwarf Week projects in the 60s and 70s. You know how you can tell Freeburg's onto something here? He got David Sachs to pay attention during it. Yeah. This is going to be a decacord and Saks is awake.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I'm going to answer you one second. I'm just going to switch my headset. It just died. Wow. We went from Saks' bots to Freeburg's crops.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. Wow. He just solved the whole Ukraine crisis here. We're going to be able to grow wheat in the desert and in the rainforest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You mentioned something briefly there about where different crops can be planted. We had these big talks about wheat and corn. They're only available in very specific parts, north of the equator, the Campion jungles, Campion, obviously polar or desert extremes. So if you're successful, what would this do for on a global basis, where these crops are made?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Because there's a whole discussion about you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Totally wheat belly of Europe, the cradle of wheat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Now you want the European small ones or the Japanese ones from Hokkaido because they're rich and sweet and they're not these like monstrosity of giant flavorless strawberries. What's that about? Could you do a seedless mango?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So you can just cut it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
The amount of work per bite on a mango is like the worst ratio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
This is going to be incredible, Sax. If you think about geopolitically, what's going on in Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, those places have tens of millions of people, I think hundreds of millions collectively, who are at risk for starvation. If you could actually make crops that could be farmed there, Friedberg, you would change humanity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And then all these people buying up farmland in America... That could devalue that farmland if that wasn't as limited of a resource. Yeah, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Chamath and J. Cal have secured the bank.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
All progress counts. All right. Stanley Druckenmiller has got a new boyfriend. Druckenmiller's got a boyfriend. And his name is Javier. And they've eloped to Argentina. Druckenmiller professed his love. Tom Cruise on Oprah's couch in a CNBC interview this week, the only free market, quote, leader in the world right now, bizarrely, is in Argentina of all places. He cut Social Security 35%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
If he came to office, they've gone from a primary deficit of like 4% or 5% to a 3% surplus. They've taken a massive hit in GDP, basically a depression for a quarter, and his approval rating has not gone down. Druckenmiller has explained how he invested in Argentina after seeing Millet's speech at Davos, which we covered. Here's a 30 second clip. Play the clip, Nick.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, that's quite interesting. Quick note, you hear Druckenmiller mention ADRs. For those of you who don't know, and I was one of them, they stand for American Depository Receipts, basically a global stock offered on a U.S. exchange to simplify things for investors and Yeah, I mean, he didn't sign a prenup here. He just went all in and he bought the stock, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And then he's going to figure it out later. Tell us your thoughts on this love affair, this bromance.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Sacks, the influence of Millais on American politics, will there be any? It seems like he has paralleled what Elon did at Twitter, Facebook, and Zuck did at Facebook. Do you think that this, you know, experiment he's doing down there of just cutting staff, cutting departments will ever make its way into American politics?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, 6%, 7%, depending on how much net worth and your credit rating.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I came back and I won.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
She triples up and then into lockdown mode. The first time I ever played with her, I showed up to this game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Victory lap. Here we go. A little David Sachs victory lap. We need a little graphic for that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, it's like showing up to a party that's going crazy and putting gasoline on the fire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I show up at a mutual friend of ours game, and there's a beautiful Porsche or something in the driveway. It's a really notable car. And I notice on the license plate, it says D-Gen. but it's spelled with a J. And I'm like, oh, degenerate. What a great license plate. I wonder whose that is. I go, it's Jennifer Tilling. She is so cool.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Of course not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It's like driving with your foot on the brake and the gas at the same time. It's not a great idea for the car.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Let's be honest, Freeberg, nobody can make that stupid of a trade to say Macy's versus Amazon over the next 10 years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And to build on your thoughts, having watched this movie a couple of times, and I overthought the Twitter investment as but one example. I had the opportunity to invest in Twitter when it was like a single-digit millions company. And I just thought, you know what? This thing is only like the headline. And I told Ev, it's the headline. It's not like the entire blog post.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It's going to be a cacophony of idiots. This thing is going to be chaos. And I was right, but I was wrong, right? Great bet. but my wrong analysis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And so you can add precision to other aspects, like when you sell your shares or when you double down, but you have to get the trend right, which is Evan Williams, great entrepreneur, Jack, great entrepreneur, Twitter taking off like a weed, just make the bet, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
But you knew Zuck and you saw some growth charts and you saw some precision in his ability to build product. And that's the way to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You don't have to ask me twice. Yeah, exactly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. Yeah, definitely a good week. Chamath Palihapitiya, chairman, dictator. He puts the chairman in dictator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What a great gangster film. Yeah. With Gina Gershwin. Gina Gershon. That film.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. So I've gotten very lucky now because a lot of my founders from the first couple of cohorts of investing I did when I was a Sequoia scout have come back and created second and third companies. And so, you know, that happened with TK Uber and the cloud kitchens that happened with Raul from report of then superhuman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And then it happened recently, just in the past year, my friend, Jonathan, who's the co-founder of thumbtack, He asked me to come to dinner and he said, hey, you know, you were the first investor in Thumbtack. Will you be the first investor in our next company, Athena? And I said, sure. What do you do? And he explained it to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And we put a seven-figure bet in, which is rare for us as a seed fund, right? Normally, our bet sizes are 100K to 50. You know, it's a $50 million fund. Why did you do it? Yeah, it's very simple. It's the fastest growing company I've ever seen. And I'm including Uber in that. It has been growing at, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
That film. Oh, my God. Well, let's not get canceled here. It is quite a film. All right. Speaking of action. Big week. The AI industrial complex is dominating. Our docket here, apologies to Biden, Ukraine, and Nikki Haley, but we got to go AI right now. Open AI, launch chat, GPT 4.0. Monday, three days after Samwise came on all in as a programming note, and we'll go to Freiburg about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
a rate that I'll just say is faster than Uber and Robinhood when we were investing in them, tens of millions of dollars. It's a very simple concept. When Thumbtack was building their marketplace, they used... researchers in places like Manila, et cetera, in the Philippines, knowledge workers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And what they realized was the 0.1% of those knowledge workers were as good or better than say Americans at doing certain jobs. And so they've created this virtual EA service. You can go see it at athenowow.com. And we now have two of them inside of our company. It turns out Americans don't want to do the operations role. So it's kind of like AWS. You just give them $36,000 a year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They give you essentially an operations or an EA. And they have ones that are kind of cheap of staff-ish. And this company is growing like a weed. So I am working with them on the product design as well. So imagine having two or three of these incredibly hardworking people who are trained with MBA class level curriculum.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They spend months training these people up, they pay them two or three times what they would make at any other company. And then they pair them with executives here. And it's kind of been an underground secret in Silicon Valley, because it's only by invitation right now, because they can only train so many people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
But if you've tried to hire an executive assistant, I don't know if anybody's tried to do that recently. You hooked me up, so I will be guinea picking this service. Yes. And I have two of them. And so it is just the greatest that you can have an operations person on board. Are these people powered by AI tools as well? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So that's the kind of secret sauce here is they're training them and they watch you work and then they will learn how you do your job and then how quickly you can delegate and get stuff off your plate is the name of the game. So we have an investment team with researchers and analysts in it. We have a due diligence team. And then you have like executive functions in our fund.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
they have now started shadowing you know you know highly paid americans in an investment firm ours and then train them up and now our due diligence our first level screening you know and our tracking of companies is being done by these assistants for what i'll say is a third to a fourth of the price i was paying previously so what that does in an organization is
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We're just delegating away and then moving our investment team to doing in-person meetings and doing higher level stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So you're 80-90ing the investment team. I'm 80-90ing the investment team. And you know what? It was scary as hell for them because they're like, am I going to lose my job? It's like, no. You now get to, instead of doing a check and call once a month, you can do a check and call every other week or every week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Or instead of doing 15 first round interviews a week, you can do 25 because you have this assistant with you doing all the repetitive work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Oh, it'd be 10 hours of work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We probably made a bit of a strategical or tactical error in not postponing his appearance. In fairness, Freeberg, Samwise did tell us. Originally, he was coming on to talk about those things, but then it got pushed back. Anything you want to add to that as a programming note? Because people are wondering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So it's a massive deflationary tailwind here. We had the same thing happen with compute, and now it's happening inside of organizations. I wrote a blog post about this on my sub stack called ADD. This is the framework I came up with. I told my entire team, look at what you got done every week. And I want you to ask three questions. How can I automate this? How can I deprecate this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
How can I delegate it? And the automate part is AI and what you're doing, David. The delegate part is athenowow.com. And then the deprecate is, hey, just be thoughtful. What are you doing that you don't need to do? And that's 80-90ing something. There are things inside these products that you don't actually need. What's the core functionality of the product?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You know, make it as affordable as possible. And then what's going to happen for people who think this is bad for society? You've got it completely wrong. We're going to have more people be able to create more products and solve more problems. The unemployment rate's going to stay very low. We're just going to have more companies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So the idea, like, there was somebody who was working on very small, like, software. I want to get pitched on very niche ideas. I want to create something where people can find people to play pickleball with, right? Like a pickleball marketplace. Now, that wouldn't typically work because you would need $5 million a year to build that product. But if you can build it for $500,000 a year,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, now you've only got to clear that number to be profitable. So a lot more smaller businesses, a lot more independence, all these little niche ideas will be able to be built. And a VC who says, I'm not giving you $5 million to build that app will be like, but I will give you 500k.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And that's what I'm seeing on the ground in startups, the same startups that had a request of $3 million in funding five years ago are now requesting 500 to a million. It's deflationary all the way down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
ChatGPT Omni launched at the same time or perhaps strategically right before Google dropped its latest AI announcements at IO. The biggest announcement is that they are going to change search. This is the piece of the puzzle in the kingdom that they have been very concerned with and they're going for it. The new product, and they have like 20 different
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
products, you can see them at labs.google where they put all their different products. But this is the most important one. They call it AI overviews. Basically, it's perplexity for most users by the end of the year, they're going to have this. Here's how it works. And you can see it on your screen. If you're watching us go to YouTube. Here, they gave an example. How do you clean a fabric sofa?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
This normally would have given you 10 blue links. Here, it gives you step-by-step guide with citations and links. So they're preempting the issue of people getting upset. And as I predicted, they're going to have targeted ads. Here's the things you need in order to clean your couch. You can only use this if you're using your Gmail account.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
If you use a domain name on Google Docs, it won't work there. So go to labs.google.com. But they're doing citations. And I think that we're going to see a major lawsuit here. Those people who are in those boxes are going to look at the answer here and realize maybe they don't get the click through and that this answer was built on that. And now we're going to have to have a new framework.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
There's going to need to be, Sachs, a new company. that clears this content so that Google can do answers like this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And I think that Chamath, in a rare moment of reflection, might do a, are we going to have a re-underwriting? Is this a re-underwriting?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I just, I mean, you know, because I'm- Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news, Chamath is re-underwriting his Google train.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So you're saying there might be many- Think about it this way, right? Multi-billion dollar opportunities sitting there dormant inside of Google that AI unlocks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Absolutely. And the report of their death, Freeberg, was based upon people don't need to click on the ads. But as I said on this very podcast, my belief is that this is going to result in more searches and more knowledge engagement. Because once you... how to cook your steak and get the right temperature, right, for medium rare, it's going to anticipate your next three questions better.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So now to say, hey, what wine pairing would you want with that steak? Hey, do you need steak knives? And it's just going to read your mind that you need steak knives and Chamath likes to buy steak knives, but maybe you like to buy mock meats, whatever it is. it's going to drive more research and more clicks. So while the monetization per search may go down, we might see many, many more searches.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What do you think, Freeberg? You work there. And when we look at the future of the company and the stock price, Nick will pull it up, Man, if you had held your stock, I don't know, did you hold any?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Would it have been a billion?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Explain, give me an example.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So other bets could actually pay off.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Life extension, yeah. Let me get Sachs involved in this discussion. Sachs, when we show that example, it's obvious... Google is telling you where they got these citations from and how they built their how to clean your couch, how to make your steak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They were in a very delicate balance with content creators over the past two decades, which is, hey, we're going to use a little bit of your content, but we're going to send you traffic. This is going to take away the need to send traffic to these places. They're going to benefit from it. To me, this is the mother of all class action lawsuits because they're putting it right up there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Hey, we're using your content to make this answer. Here's the citations. We didn't get your permission to do this, but we're doing it anyway. What do you think is the resolution here? Does all these content go away because there's no model? Does Google try to make peace with the content creators and cut them in or license their data?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What's going to happen to content creation when somebody like Google is just going to take Wirecutter or these other sources that are not behind a paywall and just give you the goddamn answer?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I had a call with him yesterday and you and I will be on that cap table together once again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And by the way, this was all something that I saw 15 years ago when I did Mahalo, which was my human-powered search engine. And which I had copied or been inspired by Naver and Daum in Korea. They were the first ones to do this. You know it, Shamath, because there were only three or four markets where Google couldn't displace the number one. Korea, Russia, Japan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Russia had, what was the Russian search engine? God, I can't remember now. Japan had Yahoo Japan, which Masayoshi San had carved out. It was never part of it, and they were loyal to that. And very nationalistic Koreans and very innovative folks at Daum and Naver just made search that was so amazing. You do a search and you'd be like, here's music, here's images, here's answers, here's Q&A.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It was awesome. But, you know, it just shows you like you need to have a lot of wherewithal and timing is everything as an entrepreneur. My timing was 10 years too early and the wrong technology. I used humans, not AI because AI didn't work 15 years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It reminds me, you know, the greatest product creation company in history. I think we all know who that was. And take a look down memory lane. Here are the 20 biggest felt Apple products of all time. The Apple Lisa, Macintosh Portable. We all remember the Newton, which was their PDA. The 20th anniversary Macintosh Super Sexy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Big swings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. And if it doesn't work out, you reboot and start with a new cap table. You're going to go all in. So to speak, another amazing episode is in the can. The boys are in a good mood. You got your great episode. No guests this week. Just all bestie all the time. And very important, the march to a million continues halfway there. You got us there, fans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We hit 500,000 subbies on YouTube, which means you all earned a live Q&A with your besties. Come Coming at you in the next couple of weeks. We're going to do it live on YouTube. So if you're not one of the first 500, get in there now so you get the alert. We're going to take your questions live. It's going to be dangerous. Any questions. No questions are offered.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Who knows what could happen on a live show. And by the way, I just want to let you know that Phil Hellmuth, breaking news. Phil Hellmuth and Draymond Green just resigned from OpenAI. We didn't get into that, but the OpenAI resignations continue. Phil Hellmuth has tweeted he's no longer with OpenAI. You guys like my baby cashmere pink sweater? It's pretty great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Are we going to get summer Chamath soon? Are the buttons coming down? Are you going to go linen? When does linen Chamath show up? The unbuttoning is about to happen in the next two or three weeks. The great unbuttoning. This is how you know. It's kind of like Groundhog Day. You know that summer's here when you lose Chamath's buttons. Almost here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
The other little trick is to say you can tell us under embargo. But my understanding is they were still doing the videos over the weekend. So I think those videos and stuff, they were still figuring them out. And so yeah, lesson learned. In terms of the interviews on the show, just to recap for people, we've done a dozen. Half of them have been presidential candidates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. We're going to go three buttons down. I'll still be wearing my black tee. Sacks will still be blue blazer, blue shirt, red tie. And Freeburg in fields of gold. Look at Freeburg in fields of gold. Taking us out. Staying in fields of gold. Coming at you. Two for Tuesday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
See you all in the next All In Pod for the Sultan of Science. The Rain Man, David Sachs, and Chairman Dictator, I am your Z100 Morning Zoo DJ. We'll see you next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And now the plugs, the all-in summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th. You can apply for a ticket at summit.allinpodcast.co. Scholarships will be coming soon. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all-in or just search all-in podcast and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And we're going to do a party today. In Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers, so look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for theallinpodcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. And you can follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs. Sachs recently spoke at the American Moment Conference and people are going crazy for it. It's pinned to his tweet on his X Profile. I'm Jason Calacanis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups. Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc., allinpodcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to athenawow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy, J-Cal, athenawow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Sometimes they break out, sometimes they don't. But we follow our interest and our passion here on the pod, it's got to be interesting for us too. So if we think this person's going to be interesting, we do it. And yeah, we understand you miss a news subject, but yeah, it is what it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What was the spiciest question, Sax? What was the fastball? Anything come close to your head? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
That's an important part here. I think, you know, as a former editor-in-chief journalist myself, I sometimes like to ask, I would say, a challenging question in a respectful way. I did that, for example, with Vake, you know, just clarifying his thoughts on trans and gay rights. wasn't disrespectful, was thoughtful, Would you consider it spicy or hardcore? I don't think it was hardcore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
He likes to talk about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
No. You see the difference? I'm actually interested in his opinion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I always have the same conditions when I do interviews, which is I don't clear questions and I don't let people edit it. But, you know. Everybody's got a different view on how to do interviews and feel a difference. If you like it, you like it. If you like Lex Friedman's version or Tim Ferriss's version, or you prefer, you know, Fox or CNN, go watch those interviews there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You can have a whole range of different interviews and interview styles available to you in the media landscape. We are but one. Sam Weiss mentioned on the pod last week that the next big model might not be called GPT-5. So on Monday, they launched GPT-4.0. The O stands for Omni. It's everything you love about tech. It's faster, it's cheaper, it's better.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
But from my perspective, the real show was the massive amount of progress they made on the UI UX. The O stands for Omni, as in Omnivore. It takes in audio, text, images, even your desktop and video from your camera to inform what it's doing. We can consider it like 360 degree AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Producer Nick will show a couple of videos while I describe them here before we go to the besties for the reaction to the announcement.
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GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
first, they made great progress in solving the CB problem we mentioned last week, that's where like when you use Siri or any of these tools, you say, you know, hey, jet GPT, what's two plus two over and you have to wait and then if you talk over each other, it breaks. They now have that working much smoother. They did an example of counting where they said speed up, slow down.
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GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They did a translator that worked really well.
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GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Looks like it works. I think Duolingo stock took a hit during that. Most impressive, to me at least, and also I had Sandeep Madra on my other podcast and we talked about it, was their desktop and iOS app. What this app does is fascinating. It watches your desktop on your Macintosh or on your iPad or iPhone, and it does everything. things like adaptive learning.
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GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Here's a clip of Sal Khan from Khan Academy and his son basically using a drawing app to do some arithmetic or geometry. And it does adaptive learning and basically makes a personal coach because the app is watching his son try to solve a problem.
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Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
It's probably $30 billion of revenue a year.
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Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
CEO of Chipotle. No, Chipotle. Chipotle. Chipotle?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
I love onion rings.
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Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
Oh, it's Purveyor. Sure, of course. Yeah, let's pull up the Starbucks CEO. I'm very disciplined about balance.
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Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world, the all-in podcast. With me again today, Chamath Palihapitiya, your chairman dictator. How are you doing, brother? How are you feeling?
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And this was what the founding fathers, Dave, actually prescribed. This is what they wanted. They wanted people who were in business to do a tour of duty, to serve their country, and then to get out. They were not interested in career politicians, correct?
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We have a professional class of politicians and their understanding is 10 years old. But it's not just politicians.
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That's not a remedy. Or spend tens of billions of dollars on a high-speed rail, like you were talking about earlier this week.
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Well, I mean, we've discussed this on the other pod, Keith, a couple of times, which is domain expertise can be an ankle for a founder. You know, you've got a founding team that works in the hotel business. They're going to look at something like Airbnb and say, this will never work. You've got somebody who worked in transportation. They're going to look at Uber and say, that'll never work.
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They'll look at PayPal if they worked in finance. And they did say to you and the team, that's never going to work.
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Yeah, because then it's just all vibes and opinions, et cetera.
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Oh, good times. And then getting ready for a little ski. You and I will be doing a little skiing together with Friedberg. That'd be quite nice.
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Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
All right, let's get to our docket. We've got a ton of stuff to get to. Google's new quantum chip is super impressive, Freeberg, and we're talking about that on the group chat. On Monday, Google announced its latest quantum chip. It's called Willow. Here's the chip if you haven't seen it. It's beautiful. It was fabricated in Google's new chip plant in Santa Barbara.
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They started this project back in 2012, their quantum computing project, and... The headline basically is Willow performed a standard benchmark computation in under five minutes. That would have taken today's fastest supercomputers 10 septillion years, or 10 to the 25th power, which is billions of times older than the universe.
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If you don't know what quantum computing is, Freeberg will expand on it. But basically, computers are binary. You've heard this before, one and zeros. Quantums use qubits. You know, those are zero, one, or both at the same time. And Google got a 5% pop. They're up 13% in the last five days. Probably on the other news that Gemini 2.0 is out as well, which is unbelievable. I've been playing with it.
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What do you think, Friedberg, of this big announcement?
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I mean, maybe a brief primer for people, but like, what does this mean practically? I think what people want to know is when did these things actually have an impact in the way, say, NVIDIA's GPUs have had?
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Yeah, good founder mode in New York, by the way, just if history is if I remember correctly. Lots of good founder mode in New York.
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Well, yeah, Keith, of course, went to Stanford with the boys. Sachs and Peter Thiel went on to do PayPal. He had a stint at Square. He started a bunch of other companies, worked at Founders Fund.
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Other projects at Google are finally landing. You have Waymo.
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And you have this now. I mean, Project Loon might be gone, but, you know, I think those projects, we're going to see a couple of them change the world, yeah?
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So how do you know the answer is correct is, I guess, the question if it takes that long to solve.
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That's right. That's right. Yeah, a lot more work here to be done.
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Yeah. And then Founders Fund. Then I got lazy.
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Yeah. How are these things actually going to be coded and how are developers going to interact with them? If at all, maybe by that time it'll just be AI.
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interstellar marvel easter egg in their announcement that i wanted to get your thoughts on freeberg google said that this massive jump in performance quote lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse so is that somebody in pr is high af or reads too much science fiction.
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Here it comes.
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When you look at the quantum bit, can you get a better idea of the scale of Uranus? Let's move on.
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Let's move on.
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Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Okay. It's like Schumacher's doing a joke. He was queuing up a joke at the same time.
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And if you're a cat lady, you have three of those boxes and I'm a dog person.
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Do you play chess with Peter Thiel while that discussion is going on? I don't play chess.
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Got it. Got it. Also, you have a life. You have a life. Yeah, I like to do other things.
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Yeah, new world champion. Was he playing Magnus?
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What Can Brown Do For You? Okay, there it is. Also UPS. filing a trademark infringement case. Hey, speaking of chip news, Apple is making its own AI server chips for internal use. A report just came out that Broadcom and TSMC are helping them develop AI inference chips, you know, inference chips like Rock, and there are obviously GPUs like NVIDIA.
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GPUs are like the giant dump trucks that help you build large language models. These inference chips are kind of like speeder bikes, you know, motorcycles quickly getting you the results from the same ones. It's called Baltra. Baltra. I don't know what that's in reference to. Mass production in 2026. They don't plan on selling the chips. They don't plan on cloud computing.
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The reason they're doing this, obviously, is because they really want the iPhone to be the interface. And they have planted their flag that they want to have privacy and have AI working off of your local device and not having access to your data, but having a compelling AI experience.
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I don't know what happened in... You upgraded your software. What happened? You're on iOS 18. It doesn't work.
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you're not the only person people are freaking out about the interface changes on photos crashing is a major thing and apple intelligence just doesn't work so it does seem keith that apple has gotten off their game of making polished stuff to race to try and i guess catch up to their perception of you know, AI being a disruptive force at the interface level, i.e. your phone or desktop.
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What are your thoughts on this new story about them doing more chips? They've obviously had great success with the processors and phones and now the M4. Incredible if you haven't tried the Mac Mini, best computer for the dollar in the world right now. But what are your thoughts on Apple?
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It would be Apple, then Tesla, and then a long tail of people experimenting. Right. So anyway, this is the point.
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I'll tell you, we talked about dictators at the beginning of this, Chamath, and obviously this is your real house as a dictator yourself, is, you know, there has to be a constant fear that some a-hole is going to come to your office and be like, what did you do to the photos app? And that fear does not exist inside of Apple. It's not like the mobile me. He brought the MobileMe team in.
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He said, how is MobileMe supposed to work? They said, well, it's supposed to back up everything. When you buy your new phone, you get everything. You never have to worry about losing the file. He slammed his hand down and said, well, why the F doesn't work that way? Fired the person, brought the next person in and said, now make it the way he said it's supposed to be. Game over.
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I don't think Tim Cook's doing that. Johnny Ives not there. And obviously Steve Jobs not there to terrorize people.
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The command center, you know, when you pull up your little command center to change the brightness and your AirPods, it's just like, what are they doing here? I mean, by the way, so do you need a chip?
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But this is my point. There's no arbiter of taste anymore. Taste. Who is the backstop who says no.
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His brother is excellent too. Josh the Black Bomber is good, yeah. Shout out to Josh the Black Bomber.
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Yeah, true. Let's go to the app level here. TikTok is scrambling right now after an appeals court upheld the January 19th deadline for a divestment. Here we go. Back in April.
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I mean, you and Jacob must sit. I mean, what do you do? You just sit at dinner and feed the kids and then talk about TikTok in China. Well, I think TikTok is pretty obvious.
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And that's why- Why? Explain to people who are like, it's just an app. It's just an app. Why?
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Yeah. I mean, the case specifically too, back in 2022, ByteDance, the parent company of TikTok, had used an app to track locations, had used their app to track the location of journalists because they were trying to track leaks outside of TikTok.
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They definitely got spooked. And I mean, if you just think,
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about navy seals special forces they're not allowed to use a lot of these apps government officials aren't to use these apps because they know that all you have to do is if you track somebody's child and their tick tock usage now you know what the parent is you start thinking about the security and safety of individuals it's crazy so 352 votes for an incredibly popular product think about how bad something has to be to get a consensus of 352 votes
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Passed the Senate 79 to 18. And you are right. If you say you're going to ban TikTok, Vivek was against TikTok, but then he opened one because that's where voters are. You're going to lose that generation of voters.
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Okay. Biden can, if he's awake, extend this window by 90 days. I don't know if grandpa is up for it, but he could extend it a bit. And obviously, this with the Trump campaign, you know, he says a lot of different things. Trump has flip-flopped a couple of times during his first term. He tried to ban it. Wait till he gets the readout that the rest of these guys got.
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Yeah, well, and then he had a mega donor and TikTok investor, Jeff Yoss, gave PAX $50 million and he owns 15% of it.
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There's such a simple test here. what are they doing with their own people in China? They are in a police state there. They make the Stasi jealous how much they're tracking individuals in China. So if they'll do it to their own people, they would have no problem doing it to an adversary. And ask yourself, if the shareholders care about money, they would be willing to divest, right? No problem.
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They want to take the company public. So if you won't divest and get off the board as a CCP, it's because you see this as a valuable tool, right? I mean, just work through the basic logic, folks.
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Exactly. Pretty obvious. Yeah, exactly. Also, there are phones that can be designed to be weapons, as we've seen. A number of people got some nut shots with their pagers recently. All right, let's talk about venture as we wrap up here. Man, Keith, for boy, cooking with oil, new sacks, new red meat sacks. Are you a steak guy too? Keith, do you eat a steak once in a while? Oh, of course.
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What's your cut? What's your cut? Are you a Kool-Aid? Are you a ribeye guy? I see like a Tomahawk. The healthiest, wow.
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All right, all right. I think, yeah, shout out to my friend Kimball.
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Of course, of course. I'm a big fan of this coulette slash the cognac.
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Okay, there you go. All right, let's wrap up with a venture update here at the darkest hour, Keith. Sometimes before the dawn, VC deal activity begins.
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has uh getting close to uh pre-covid numbers in 2019 obviously major funding drop-off happened in 2022 yeah it's been a couple of years of this but deals uh the number of deals is coming back the amount being put to work coming back to i would say the steady state perhaps even normal level uh and um But VC exits, sadly, are not keeping up. But we did have ServiceNow go public today, up 50%.
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And the wrath of Lena Kahn is officially over. She's out. Andrew Ferguson is in. This looks like a great appointment. Another one by Trump in the column of somebody who wants to allow business to occur and wants a free market. He wants to do basically everything Lena Kahn didn't do, which is allow some M&A. Roy, what's your pulse like here? And what's your take on the venture industry?
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And then we'll go into M&A and exits. We'll start with just investing. Is it ramping up? Are you seeing high-quality companies?
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Yeah. Why aren't they going public, Keith? What's the story with the boys over there?
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What amount of revenue? What amount of revenue?
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So optionality increases as you have that public currency. If you're a private buying a private, the acquired company needs to believe that you're going to get it over the finish line. They're going to have some liquidity at some point, whereas with the public government, they just sell within whatever their window is. Chamath, your thoughts?
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That is a great answer. Freeberg, your thoughts here on public markets, M&A, the end of the wrath of Lena Kahn, and what we might see in the new year post-January 20th?
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But there's also a culture thing, I have to say. In talking to a number of the leaders of these public companies that were very inquisitive and M&A, they are taking the position, it's easier for us to build a competing function, a competing adjacency than do any tuck ins.
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If they just told the corp dev people pencils down, and they are not wanting to spend a year or two on a deal, when they have a breakup fee when they see what happened with Adobe, or they just think, well, why don't those are big build ourselves?
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Why?
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There are a lot of big ones.
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No, I mean, they could fill in the first one X, maybe.
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And the IPO window has started to crack open. Just give me a couple more data points, gentlemen. We ride the Chinese-based... Self-driving car company went public on the NASDAQ last month, $4.5 billion market cap. Pony AI, another Chinese-based self-driving car company, went public in November. Klarna plans to go public in the U.S. I think they quietly filed service tightened today.
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The taping of this on Thursday. And Sheen, the fast fashion company.
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Yeah, right. Tariffs. As we wrap here, that's a good place to wrap on. What do you think of, I guess, two issues, Keith? We'll end with politics as we started there. Two things seem perplexing to people in finance. One is tariffs and how that's going to work.
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And the other is inflation and what the impact would be on 15 million people being shipped out of the country and the impact that would have on inflation vis-a-vis the unemployment rate getting even lower than the historic low it's been in our lifetimes. What do you think of those two issues? Take either one.
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It reminds me of how I went to the Tom Ford out. When I went to Tom Ford to get my suit. I'll do that in just a second. But with us again, of course, your cackling sultan of science, Freeberg. How are you doing?
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Chamath, your thoughts on tariffs and or immigration and inflation? And that seems to be a place where even across the aisle, you got people debating.
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You enjoy the early stage. You enjoy year zero, year one, year two.
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I mean, look at rare earths. You mentioned them. We have some of the great deposits in the world in our country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
It's because of environmental regulations. And it's the same thing with Starship going up. We got a lot of regulations in this country. I understand people want to do the right thing, but we also have a lot of debt. And if we could start mining rare earth metals here... maybe loosen the regulations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Well, I mean, look at BYD. Some of these cars, they're just copying wholesale everything Tesla's done in their design and feature set, and they're half the price. And so they're selling really well in countries that allow them, and they would decimate US automakers and German automakers if they were- By the way, different
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Freeberg, you have anything to add there on tariffs? Okay, four. Chamath Palihapitiya, your chairman dictator, the sultan of science, and New Sachs. better BMI, hates dictators. What's your take on Ukraine? Maybe we can fire up a Ukraine discussion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
What's the secret? What's the secret from a keynote to a check?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Hopefully that's solved. Day one. We're going to solve it on day one. Okay? Keith, you were excellent. You were excellent. Tremendous. Keith Raboy, excellent husband. Very, very effective. Great, great American. Great host. Great co-host.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
You may have heard of two words, all in. Okay, you may have heard of it. David Sachs, brilliant crypto. I mean, we didn't even dive into crypto.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
People are going a little nutty on this crypto. What do you think about all this crazy crypto going on here, Keith? Everything's spiking back up, XRP, Bitcoin. What do you think of Saylor? I know the Saylor fans are like obsessing about him coming on the pod. What do you think of Saylor taking these loans to buy Bitcoin and then other people are following suit to put it in their treasury?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
And there's no Zuckerberg to rug pull and say you can't use it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
What do you think, Freeberg? You were monitoring this Saylor situation, the Mr. MicroStrategy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
And the premium- It was two to one, I think, or two and a half to one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
So, for your Sultan of Science, The Dictator, and FitSax. FitSax here. Low BMI, low heart rate. What's the heart rate at right now, Keith?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Oh, eight sleep. What do you think of our Knicks, by the way? Ooh.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
So good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
All right, listen, we'll see you all next time. Don't worry, SACS isn't going anywhere. It's just a little bit busy right now. There's a transition going on. SACS is transitioning and we'll see. The pod will transition as well. We'll see what it looks like in the new year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
We're going to do eight weeks. It's going to be all in idle. All in idle is occurring. We're rotating people in and you get to vote, audience. Keith, that was great. Thank you. You did great, Keith.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Really, really excellent. That's really good, guys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Yeah. Ah, right. Yeah. The founder reigns supreme and everybody else is there to get out of the way. Right. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
I saw Brian Singerman is leaving. So does anybody know which ambassadorship he's taking? I mean, the timing's a little interesting, is it not? I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Yes, with security guards. It's like some sort of a crypto put on or something. It's hilarious. This guy, he's got like a big Brazilian butt and he just runs around in tight khakis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Yeah, Ken Howery, where is he off to next?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
I know, so we can all crash. Yeah, something warm this time, okay? Sweden's a little bit much. Sweden was cold.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Yeah, let's go. Like, maybe, like, is there, like, a Turks and Caicos or something? What about an embassy tour? We should do an embassy tour this year. Yeah, St.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
St. Bart's? Yeah, that's a great idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Well, you know what? Everything's on the table now. We could make them the 51st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th state. I mean, we're in the game right now. Canada's coming on board. Keith, did you not want to roll in the administration yourself?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Well, the household's involved. Big announcement. Your husband, Jacob, is joining the administration. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes, Jacob's going to be proud of that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
So funny. All right, with us, the cackling with his afterglow from the holiday spectacular. Let's call it what it is. It's the Christmas spectacular. We're going to pick a side, Friedberg. How did you like our Christmas?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Interestingly, what's turning out to be interesting as Trump assembles this group, I want to get the panel's thoughts on it, is not everybody thinks the same. Jacob's position on TikTok, which we'll get to in this show, very different than some other people in the administration, even Trump himself flip flopped a little bit on that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
So what are your thoughts as we get started here just on that assembly of people, you know, including Sachs, obviously, who couldn't be here this week, but will be on future episodes? There's your announcement, folks. What are your thoughts on that, the sort of diversity in opinion in the administration and how that all sorts out? I think it's extremely exciting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
X being a topic, not the website X. Not X. Yeah, everybody knows what it's about. I think he likes X. Chamath, any thoughts on this, the wider team as we see it get assembled? We obviously don't have Sax here. He joined the team. But just your thoughts on the collection of characters and executives.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
How dare you? How dare you? You can have the Hanukkah special with your two specials. And now with us in the Red Throne, it's Fit Sachs. It is stylish, Sachs. It is. Goes to work every day in Venture Sachs. His name is Keith Raboy. How are you, my brother? Welcome. Great. Great, Jason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC with bestie Keith Rabois
Oh, net worth of each one. Now,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He's ready to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
What's up with your outfit, J. Cal? You going on Fox News again? Dude, he just signed on to become a contributor. Wait, what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, a lot of the boom is driven by these AI stocks, notably NVIDIA. I mean, if you take out the AI stocks, I'm not sure the market is up, or maybe it's up a little bit. I mean, a huge part of the gain is from these, I don't know, top five, top seven tech stocks. Is it a bubble? I think that's going a little too far. I mean, I personally think the AI wave is real.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think the question is whether the level of investment that we're seeing going into cloud service infrastructure is sustainable. There's a huge build-out happening right now, many, many billions of dollars building out these new technologies. cloud service centers or cloud infrastructure, data centers based on GPUs instead of CPUs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And I think it's a good question about whether that's sustainable. I do think that one of the things that's going on is that the chips are really expensive. I mean, these GPUs from NVIDIA, what, they're like $30,000 per GPU? For an H100, yeah. Right, and part of the reason for that is the scarcity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They haven't been able to produce as much as there's demand for, and so they're commanding a premium right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, it's got like thousands of components and it's a very complicated product to make. In any event, they're very expensive. And so it's very expensive to build out this new infrastructure. I do think that over time, the price of these chips just has to come down. It just doesn't make sense that they'd be so expensive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Just as production increases and they don't have this rate limit on the supply, then I think the price should come down and the cost of this infrastructure should normalize a bit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I knew it. I knew it. That's the level of... Did you open the wine bottle in the gym or did you just like tap the glass?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think that's what's likely to happen. I'm much more bullish than you guys about this investment that's being made. Remember that when the internet got started in the 90s, it was via dial-up. I mean, you literally had to have a modem and you would dial up the internet and it was incredibly slow. Photo sharing didn't even work, so social networking wasn't possible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Is that official merch? I got it online, so I hope she's getting royalty. I hope it's not a fugazi.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He's a contributor. You're a contributor to Fox News. They're paying me. That's hysterical.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And basically what happened next was that the telecom companies spent a ton of money building out broadband. And people started upgrading to broadband. Then we had the dot-com crash. Everyone thought that telecom companies had wasted billions of dollars investing in all this broadband infrastructure. And it turned out that no, they were right to do that. It just took a while for that to get used.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And this is a pretty common pattern with technological revolutions is that You can have a bubble in the short term, but then it gets justified in the mid to long term. The build out of the railroads in the United States, another example of this, we had huge railroad bubbles, but it turned out that that investment was all worthwhile. So I tend to think that's what's going to happen with AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I mean, I do think that there's already enough, let's call it realness to the applications. I mean, I'll give you three examples. Number one, open AI. I mean, open AI is effectively semantic search, right? It's a different kind of search engine where it understands the question you're asking and gives you an answer instead of blue links. And they're already at What is it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
We talked about this previously. $3.4 billion in revenue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, they're just starting already. I mean, this company has only been around for two years with a product on the market and it's doubling now. year over year. So that's just example number one, right? I mean, what's the most valuable application on the internet until now? It's been Google, right? And so search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And so you have a different kind of search now that I'm not saying it's a one for one replacement. It's also a new market. But my point is just you already have a very powerful application in the form of this semantic search, which OpenAI is currently dominating. The second one, I think, will be when Apple comes out with iPhone 16.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
you know, with LLM-powered Siri, assuming they do a decent job with that, it's going to lead to a huge upgrade cycle. I mean, I'm still on an iPhone 13 because I haven't seen a reason to upgrade. I will definitely upgrade to the iPhone 16.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Snap upgrade for that, assuming that they roll their own LLM and use that to power Siri and don't give my data to a third-party LLM. And there's... been mixed reports about that. You don't trust Sam Altman with your iPhone backup? I don't want Apple sharing any of my data, which they obtained by being the operating system with a third party LLM.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
But a bunch of viewers of the show posted in the comments that I had made a mistake on this and that Apple was rolling its own LLM to power Siri and they would only go to OpenAI if Apple Their own LLM can't do it for some reason. I'm just going to turn that feature off. But in any event, so assuming Apple gets that right, everyone's going to upgrade their iPhones.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
The third app is, look, we're using LLMs to power Glue. And the results aren't always consistently awesome. I would say the results are kind of like a B plus right now. But you do get some really great results.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's a strong start.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And, you know, in a year or so, we're going to be at the next gen version of all the models. You're going to be at, I'm sure, you know, ChatGPT 5 will be out and then the next version of Claude and so forth. At that point, it's going to be an A+.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, I wasn't supposed to talk about that, but I saw that someone leaked it to the New York Times this morning, so it's out there. Okay. And yeah, I'm going to be speaking there next week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think the low-hanging fruit application-wise in the enterprise is chat with a knowledge base, chat with your knowledge bases. That's what people want, right? And we're still in the early stages of being able to connect your enterprise data to an LLM in a safe, compliant way. That's where a lot of activity is happening right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You can give us a little idea of maybe a theme or two that you want to... There is a theme, but I don't want to talk about it yet. I'm not supposed to talk about it. I'm not even supposed to say I'm doing it, but it got out there, so I guess there's no hiding it anymore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, look, where I think Chamath has a point is that these big tech companies are not building out all of this infrastructure because they've modeled out the ROI and it's extremely positive. They're doing it because it's an arms race. It's so strategic right now to have these AI capabilities and to power the expected next generation of AI apps.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They can't afford to let one of their competitors have that. They have to compete. So they're all in an arms race with each other, bidding up the cost of these GPUs because they have to have that supply.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, I mean, I think they're going to use them, but yeah, I mean, the point is that it's a zero-sum game. And if I let you have this GPU, I have one less GPU to use.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Wait, what? For real. Yeah, he's the newest contributor. Oh, my God. That's incredible. Do they know you have TDS?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, hold on. The 20 times math only makes sense if it's $100 million a year in perpetuity, right? If it's a one-time spend on the $100 million, then it's just $100 million.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I don't think it's that weird a strategy. Because, I mean, look, it's definitely different.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
What I'm saying is that they're buying these chips and then they're effectively timesharing them out to portfolio companies. And so they're going to charge for their use. They're going to amortize this cost.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It depends on the rate of depreciation. If you buy these chips at a premium because they're scarce right now, and then all of a sudden they rapidly depreciate in value, then you might lose money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
On the other hand, if the current value of the investment remains stable because they don't depreciate that rapidly, and then you can charge the cost back to the startups who are using the chips, then you break even.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And it's basically a business development expense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, I don't think this is a bad idea at all. I mean, I think it's kind of interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I mean, look, it appeals to a certain category of startup who needs the GPUs. I mean, just to be clear, like there's lots of AI applications that don't need direct access to GPUs because, you know, for example, we're using the cloud models and we're using the open AI models.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, we don't deal with GPU. I mean, you have to be in the model business effectively to need direct access to the GPUs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah. Look, I don't think that the youth's demand for socialism is what's driving the results in France at all. Let me explain what happened. So the way that the voting works in France, it's an unusual system to our eyes where they have a first round of voting. And in that first round of voting, Marine Le Pen's party national rally won a strong plurality of the vote.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And the map looked like this, where literally they won every district in the country except for Paris. I mean, it was a really dominant performance. And so people were expecting major reform. And J. Cal, you're right that Marine Le Pen's major issue, her party, is the unlimited immigration that's taken place into France. The French people or a substantial portion of them are up in arms about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And actually, this is something that's very common across all of Europe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They care about their culture. The indigenous people of France are opposed to the settler colonial invasion that's happening from the global south. And they want to preserve their French culture and society and nation as it has always been. And they do not see how this unlimited immigration from the global south is good for them. It's not good for them economically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's not good for societal cohesiveness. It's not good for crime and so on. So this is undoubtedly a huge driver of national rally success. But then what happened is that in the French system, there's a second round of voting a week later. And we got these results, where national rallies still got the plurality of the vote. They got 37% of the vote, but they only won 142 seats.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Whereas Macron's party got 22% of the vote, won 148. And then a collection of parties called the New Popular Front, which is basically a collection of far-left parties under the radical socialist Jean-Luc Mélenchon, won only 27% of the vote, but won the most seats. And this is what I think Freeberg's reacting to, is that the socialists, Ended up with the most seats.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, how did this happen if National Rally, Marine Le Pen's party got a lot more votes than New Popular Front? The answer is that Macron, president of France, conspired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
with the far left to have 200 candidates quit to basically drive those voters, the voters in, let's call it the center left, over to the far left in order to block Marine Le Pen's party from winning the number of seats that they otherwise would have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
rfk giving dropping out at the last minute and saying i endorse this person on left or right so they did a very strategic thing to right but they went district by district and they basically said okay strategy yeah hold on in this district we're gonna let the we're gonna have uh macron's candidate drop out and endorse new popular front exactly so that's what they did so brilliant
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, it's a manipulated result. And what it ends up with, look, a lot of people said, so actually you're saying that they rigged the election. Look, they didn't rig the votes, okay? I have no reason to believe that the votes aren't real. But they did rig the candidates in order to frustrate the desire of the French people for reform, the reform that Marine Le Pen was offering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And Freeberg, you're interpreting this as basically a big endorsement for socialism. I don't think that's what this is. I think that what happened here is that the center left under Macron was willing to throw the election through legal. I'm not saying they did anything illegal through legal manipulation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, exactly. And so it's to me, it's just it's sad that, you know, one person tweeted that We voted for reform. We voted for national sovereignty. We voted to restrict unlimited immigration. And what we got was communism. This isn't what we voted for.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And so it's just kind of sad that what's happening is that the system, the system politicians are essentially getting together to frustrate the popular will of the people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
200 candidates basically were strategically dropped out in order to throw the vote in those districts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
We're right about that part. So basically on the heels of this vote with New Popular Front winning all of these seats, Jean-Luc Mélenchon gives this speech in which he, you know, rails basically against Macron's neoliberal policies. He wants to go back to the restricted number of hours in the work week. He wants a 90% wealth tax and so on across the board. He does want radical socialism.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And he says that he will not cooperate with Macron's party. So, I mean, this is like just, it's almost... cartoonish and clownish, how much this has backfired on Macron. He was so hell-bent on trying to frustrate Marine Le Pen that he threw the election to New Popular Front, who has now announced that they will not work with him, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Now, J. Cal, you may want to say, well, this is the will of the majority, but the majority of the country did not want to vote for chaos. But chaos is what they've got, because now there is no dominant faction in their parliament, right? And New Popular Front-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Sorry. The good news, Freeberg, is that Melon Sean will not have a majority in the assembly to push through those radical policies that he wants. No faction will have a majority because they're not going to work with each other. You've got three big parties here or three big groups, and you need two of them working together to get anything done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So what's going to happen is you're just going to have basically a log jam. And like Marine Le Pen said, reform in France is just going to have to wait and we're going to lose another year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think what's happening is that there is a pent-up demand for reform. People are craving reform. I understand that system does not work. It feels rigged for everyone. It feels rigged. It feels corrupt. And it's resistant to reform. And so they are basically clamoring for that. And they will get it wherever they can take it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, I don't think it's because socialism is that desirable. I actually think that the desire for reform, I think it is first and foremost looking for what I would call a nationalist populist solution. And you can see here that National Rally did do better than New Popular Front, considerably better, But it was the system's desire to hand a victory to New Popular Front that gave them the win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And I think you see a similar thing in the United States. Look, if Joe Biden had just shut down the border for the last four years, he would be in a materially different position. Absolutely. But the radicals in his party didn't want to do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in a way, you could say that you have a similar type of conspiracy taking place where the center left would rather enable and support the radical progressives as opposed to making sensible decisions. moderations or sensible adjustments, that would actually make them much more popular.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think there's a common denominator here that both Macron and Biden would rather throw the government of the country to radicals and communists than implement sensible restrictions on immigration. It's mind-blowing to me that neither Macron nor Biden can simply make a sensible adjustment on immigration. People do not want open borders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They especially don't want them in Europe, and they don't want them here either.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
My gosh. Yeah, that's pretty rough. And Axios reported that Chuck Schumer... Jason, let me ask you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
That's right. All right. Hawk two, that whistle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And let's get it out there because also coming out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Oh, I think we already know what's going on, J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in that press conference, it's nice to see the press actually doing their job because their job is to... Hold truth to account and to actually ask tough questions. And they're finally doing it. But I see in that press conference, not just a liar at the podium.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think the entire audience are a bunch of liars, too, because they knew they knew the truth about the situation and they refused to report it and they refused to investigate it until now. Now, what you've heard in the past week or so is a bunch of people who knew about the situation telling on themselves.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So first you had George Clooney, and that New York Times op-ed, he says that after the fundraiser we did, yeah, I knew, and everyone there knew. That was a month ago. What took you so long to come out? Olivia Newsy says she had the story for New York Magazine six months ago, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
She had anonymous sources, but she said she was afraid to publish it because the White House would basically push back, and she didn't think the press corps would back her. Chuck Todd just said it on a podcast that a cabinet official said,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
OK, in the Biden White House, told him two years ago that he could not get a meeting with the president because the president was effectively incapacitated and his inner circle was keeping him shielded. Chuck Todd knew. Why didn't Chuck Todd report that? Why didn't Chuck Todd pass it on to an investigative reporter at NBC to investigate that? These dereliction of duty is the answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's a dereliction of duty. Of course. But let me tell you what they were trying to do, OK? They were trying to weekend of Bernie's this thing. Absolutely. They thought they could get Biden through the election. And so they were on narrative and they weren't going to report the truth about his condition. They were just going to try and get him across the finish line.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They're all complicit in this cover up and they don't deserve any credibility because now they're finally reporting it because the only reason they're reporting it is because of concerns about Biden's electability. They're afraid that he's going to lose. And the turning point was that debate because the whole country could see it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in the wake of that, they're starting to panic and they're realizing, oh, wait, we need a new candidate. So finally, they're telling the truth about the situation. But they had absolutely no intention of telling the truth about it because they could have done it a long time ago. And they were just going to try and drag Biden across the finish line.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He was clear on this podcast, and kudos to Dean Phillips for having the courage to tell the truth. He was one of the only people in the Democratic Party to tell the truth. Remember, he also said in our podcast that he called up J.B. Pritzker. He called up Gretchen Whitmer. He said, where are you guys? You're the leaders of the Democratic Party. Why aren't you challenging President Biden?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He obviously isn't fit to serve. They told him, shut up. They wouldn't take his phone calls, okay? And look, Dean Phillips knew the truth without having special access to the president. Quite frankly, he's a backbencher, right? But it was obvious to him. They all knew. The whole party knew.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
But their strategy was to pretend and deny and to pretend to excommunicate anyone like Dean Phillips who told the truth and to try and discredit anyone who reported the truth as basically a partisan or a liar who was trafficking in the fake. Remember that? So all these people are complicit. They're all complicit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Oh, my God. Honestly, I will say that I saw both of your appearances on Jesse Waters, and I thought you crushed both of them. Totally. You were excellent. I think it's actually a good move for them. I like the idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And the only reason they're telling the truth now is because they're afraid of losing an election.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Where did you get it from, J. Cal?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
OK, I personally don't think it's going to happen, but I still think you deserve credit for being the first. So you came up with this and now it's a spread or what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Okay, look, I think you deserve credit for being the first to talk about this. And that idea is clearly gaining some currency on the left. However, at the end of the day, I don't think the Democrats can afford to do that because they're already in a state of chaos right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And if they finally succeed in pushing Biden overboard, the last thing they're going to want to do is have the chaos of an open primary, even if it is a speedrun primary. I think they're just going to have to go to Kamala Harris and I think that's what they've decided.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think that if they succeed in pushing Biden out, which does seem probably more likely than not at this point, I think it's got to be Harris. And I think she's going to be the nominee. So I just don't think Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, no, look, I think that Trump should win regardless, but it's an opportunity for them to reset the race. And that's what's driving all of this is that they're concerned about losing. But look, let me say this, that everything that's happened here with Biden's cognitive state It's just one in a series of hoaxes and cover-ups that the Democrat Party has transpired over the last several years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's gotten to the point where you have to wonder, can these guys even run a presidential campaign without hoaxes? You had the Steele dossier, okay? You have the whole suckers and losers hoax. You have the very fine people hoax. You have the this is the best version of Biden hoax. You had the whole cheap fake hoax. And you've just got to wonder, okay,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Is this a party who deserves the trust of the American people? I think that Trump deserves another term just as a rebuke to all the misinformation and lies that the Democratic Party has told about him. And I think that he should win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
That's like 20% of the hoax list. There's like 10 more. Okay. No, he's been keeping a list. Yeah. Trump deserves to win just based on all the hoaxes that have been thrown at him. All right. And you know what? You got to give him credit because it was his decision to go on CNN in that debate that really called their bluff on this whole thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You don't think it was a setup? No, I think, look, there are a lot of people who do think that it was a controlled demolition and they want Biden out. I don't think so. Wow, that's a conspiracy theory. It is a conspiracy theory and I understand why people might think that because so many conspiracy theories have turned out to be true. However, I don't believe that's what happened.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I believe that Biden's staff created conditions for the debate that they thought would be untenable to Trump, right? They said that we're going to choose the host. They're going to be hosts who've basically already called Trump Hitler, right? So it's like the most favorable setting. They said, there's not going to be an audience. We're going to turn off your microphone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And they thought that Trump would just say no to all of this and they'd be able to get Biden through without debate. But Trump called their bluff. He said, okay, I'll do it. Sure. And he walked into the lion's den. Just like, remember a year ago, he walked into the lion's den at CNN, right? Yeah, he's fearless. To do that town hall. Remember, he is fearless.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You got to admit that Trump has the huevos. Like Tony Montana said, the only thing in this world that gives orders is balls. Absolutely. You got to admit. To a... You got to hop to those. Don't forget the balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Love you boys. Bye-bye. Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Sacks. You would love for me to be a contributor on Fox.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I would.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You would. I'm pulling your leg. I'm pulling your leg. I'm pulling your leg. They haven't made the effort. They haven't made the effort.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I want your training to continue, young Padawan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Oh, really? This is like I will bring ballots to the force?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I'm as nonpartisan as you are, J. Cal. Don't pretend like you're not the candidate in this race.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I am a moderate independent, as we all know, from my Fox News hits.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yes, exactly. Fox News has hired you to provide the opposite point of view. In any event, sorry, what's your question?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yes, yes. You're the chosen one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, the Fed's mistake was just waiting way too long to react to the inflation. And they didn't just wait nine months after the first inflation print came in that was too high before they started raising rates. They continued QE for six more months. So when you talk about all this stimulus that's still in the economy that they can't seem to get rid of,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You are my brother, Anakin. You were supposed to bring ballots to the force, Anakin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
A lot of that was created by the Fed's QE in the second half of 2021. That should never have happened. Since then, they did what they had to do, which is they increased rates to solve inflation. That's what you do. And yes, it does seem to be working, but we still have inflation being persistently high at 3%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And so now, like Freeberg's saying, they're trying to change the goalposts to somehow normalize 3%. We should just understand that what that means is permanently higher interest rates because the Fed has to offer, or under normal circumstances, has to offer a return above the rate of inflation. So whatever that return is, 1%, 2%, you stack that on top of the inflation rate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in other words, let's say the Fed wanted to target a 2% real return. that means that the interest rate would be 5% with the 3% rate of inflation. Whereas if inflation can be managed down to 2%, you would have a 4% interest rate. And that persistently, if we're talking permanently higher interest rate, will create a drag on the economy because lower interest rates create more investment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They reduce the hurdle rates to take risk. Whereas higher interest rates, as we've seen, create drag on equities and drag on investments. So If they redefine the inflation rate to three instead of two, there will be long-term consequences from that. That is not a free thing to do. So that would be like one part of the answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
The other thing is just, yeah, look, inflation going from 3.1 to 3.0 is positive. It's good news. Better than it going from 3.1 to 3.2. But we're talking about 0.1%. And I just think people get a little too excited reading into these prints when these are not huge changes in numbers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I do think that once the inflation rate starts with a two-handle, that psychologically, I think, will be a big change for people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
And California with wildfires.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Speaking of that, your people used me in an ad, Breedberg, so don't talk about plugs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Where do you think I stayed when I was in town? You're so selfish.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
And we're still hiring, so.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
What is that comment? It's just a stray.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
What did he do wrong? It's just a joke.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
They're just jokes. Have you not learned anything good? When you attack the people that attack you. It's not an attack. It's a joke.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
He's doing a great job. This is how I got drunk with Paul. What are you doing? Exactly. Can you people have a sense of humor about yourselves?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
He had his chance. That chance is closed. He shot his shot and it did not land.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
When he called the all-in people whores. Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
It's like, leave Britney alone, that famous meme.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
They're just jokes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
I'm not in a feud with anybody. I'm making stupid jokes. The reason people tune in is because you laugh and learn.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Jason Conn? J. Conn? Jaders. Jaders convention. What is it called? Jaders? Jaders. Yeah. J haters. Yeah. Jason haters. Jaders. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
All three of us would show up. J. Cal would be so devastated. Keynote one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
I think it's hilarious.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
I like Benioff. I'm not trying to make enemies with Benioff. He's just got to have a sense of humor. Oh, my gosh. Megan Kelly. A special fireside chat. Megan Kelly and Farmer Lucky. Wait, does Zuck hate you too? Why does Zuck hate you? Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Passionate demographic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Well, I'm sorry to the low IQ listeners who don't know that the Illuminati is not real. Oh, now you're insulting the audience? No, I'm insulting the ones who believe there's an Illuminati. He's trying to sell tickets to the Jaders. I'm trying to sell tickets to the Jaders ball. Buck Nasty. Zuck Nasty. Jane Cowd is the biggest hater in the tech industry. You ever see the hater's ball, Sax?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
We're all interested. All right, we'll see you guys later.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Wet your feet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
I blame Putin. Putin or Kamala.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Break it apart.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I first met our next guest, Sam Altman, almost 20 years ago when he was working on a local mobile app called Looped. We were both backed by Sequoia Capital. And in fact, we were both in the first class of Sequoia Scouts. He did investment in a little unknown fintech company called Stripe. I did Uber. And in that tiny experimental fund- You did Uber?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Different is the answer then?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, you have voice working right now in the app. In fact, I set my action button on my phone to go directly to ChatGPT's voice app, and I use it with my kids, and they love it, talking to it. It's got latency issues, but it's really great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
But again, like we already- Let's talk about that, by the way. Like why is it not responsive and- you know, it feels like a CB, you know, like over, over. It's really annoying to use, you know, in that way. But it's also brilliant when it gives you the right answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
This after it was reported that Sam was looking to raise a billion from Masayoshi-san to create an iPhone killer with Johnny Ive, the co-creator of the iPhone. All of this while chat GPT has become better and better and a household name. It's having a massive impact on how we work and how work is getting done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's an agent in a way, like it's out there working on your behalf and understands what you want and anticipates what you want is what I'm reading into what you're saying.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And it's reportedly the fastest product to hit 100 million users in history in just two months. And check out OpenAI's insane revenue ramp up. They reportedly hit 2 billion in ARR last year. Welcome to the All In podcast, Sam Altman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. Yeah, and push back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So you see voice, chat, that modality kind of gets rid of apps. You just ask it for sushi. It knows sushi you liked before. It knows what you don't like and does its best shot at doing it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sax, you want to lead us off here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I mean, Apple tried with Siri. Supposedly, you can order an Uber automatically with Siri. I don't think anybody's ever done it because it's... Why would you take the risk of not putting it in your phone?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So idea of watching it happen. That's kind of cool.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So there's a big debate about training data. You guys have been, I think, the most thoughtful of any company. You've got licensing deals now, FT, et cetera. And we got to just be gentle here because you're involved in a New York Times lawsuit. You weren't able to settle, I guess, an arrangement with them for training data. How do you think about fairness in fair use
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
we've had big debates here on the pod. Obviously, your actions speak volumes that you're trying to be fair by doing licensing deals. So what's your personal position on the rights of artists who create beautiful music, lyrics, books, and you taking that and then making a derivative product out of it and then monetizing it? And what's fair here? And how do we get to a world where
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
you know, artists can make content in the world and then decide what they want other people to do with it. Yeah. And I'm just curious, your personal belief, because I know you to be a thoughtful person on this. And I know a lot of other people in our industry are not very thoughtful about how they think about content creators.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And I think your actions speak loudly. We were trying to do Star Wars characters in Dali. And if you ask for Darth Vader, it says, hey, we can't do that. So you've, I guess, red teamed or whatever you call it internally. We try.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, you're not allowing people to use other people's IP. So you've taken that decision. Now, if you asked it to make a Jedi bulldog, or a Sith Lord bulldog, which I did, it made my bulldogs as Sith bulldogs. So there's an interesting question about like, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And we talked about releasing it differently this time. Are you thinking maybe releasing it to the paid users first or a slower rollout to get the red teams tight since now there's so much at stake? You have so many customers actually paying and you've got everybody watching everything you do. You have to be more thoughtful now, yeah?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, and I think you're right. The music industry is going to consider this opportunity to make Taylor Swift songs their opportunity. It's part of the four-part fair use test is who gets to capitalize on new innovations for existing art. And Disney has an argument that, hey, you know, If you're going to make Sora versions of Ashoka or whatever, Obi-Wan Kenobi, that's Disney's opportunity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And that's a great partnership for you to pursue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
The criticism of this is that you have the resources to cozy up, to lobby, to be involved, and you've been very involved with politicians, and then startups, which you're also passionate about and invest in, are not going to have the ability to resource and deal with this, and that this regulatory capture, as per our friend You know, Bill Gurley did a great talk last year about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So maybe you could address that head on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So if you have the nuclear raw material to make a nuclear bomb, there's a small subset of people who have that. Therefore, you use the analogy of a nuclear inspector kind of situation. Yeah. I think that's interesting. Sax, you have a question?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Right. There's a lot of hand-wringing right now, Sam, about jobs. And you had a lot of, I think you did like some sort of a test when you were at YC about UBI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's just very expensive, I take it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. Chamath, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
You were fired, you came back and it was palace intrigue. Did somebody stab you in the back? Did you find AGI? What's going on? This is a safe space.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Where were you when you found the news that you'd been fired? Take me to that moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I think that's happened to you before, J. Cal. So, you're there and they want you to get a text and they're like, fire, pick up the couch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I'm trying to think if I ever got fired. I don't think I've gotten fired. Yeah, I got a text. No, it's just a weird thing. Like, it's a text from who?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sam, this is the back channel. You are a great dealmaker. I've watched your whole career. I mean, you're just great at it. You got all these connections. You're really good at raising money. You're fantastic at it. And you got this Johnny Ive thing going. You're inhumane. You're investing in companies. You got the orb. You're raising $7 trillion to build fabs, all this stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
All of that put together, J. Cal loves fake news. I'm kind of being a little facetious here. Obviously, you're not raising $7 trillion, but maybe that's the market cap or something. Putting all that aside, the T was you're doing all these deals. They don't trust you because what's your motivation? You're end running. And what opportunities belong inside of OpenAI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
What opportunities should be Sam's? And this group of nonprofit people didn't trust you. Is that what happened? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
OK, that's not the public's perception.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
What's the chip project? That's a $7 trillion. And where did the $7 trillion number come from? It makes no sense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
All right, Sam, I know you got to go. You've been great on the hour. Come back anytime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Thanks for being so open about it. We've been talking about it for like a year plus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, you got the Zoom link. Same Zoom link every week. Same time, same Zoom link. Drop it anytime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Just put it on your calendar. Come back to the game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That famous hand where you and I were heads up. I don't rely on me? You and I were heads up and you went all in. I had a set, but there was a straight and a flush on the board. And I'm in the tank trying to figure out if I want to lose. This is back when we played small stakes. It might have been like...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
5k pot or something and then chamath can't stay out of the pot and he starts taunting the two of us you should call you shouldn't call he's bluffing and i'm like i'm going i'm trying to figure out if i make the call here i make the call and uh it was like uh you had a really good hand and i just happen to have a set i think you had the top pair top kicker or something but
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
You made a great move because the board was so textured, almost like old bottom set.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's so much fun now. I find that really hard to believe. Have you played Bomb Pots? I don't know what that is. Okay, you'll love it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Gentlemen, some breaking news here. All those projects, he said, are part of OpenAI. That's something people didn't know before this and a lot of confusion there. Shamath, what was your major takeaway from our hour with Sam?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Freeberg, he talked a lot about reasoning. It seemed like that he kept going to reasoning and away from the language model. Did you note that and anything else that you noted in our hour with him?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sacks, you went right there with the corporate structure, the board.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
and uh he he gave us a lot more information here what are your thoughts on the hey you know the chip stuff and the other stuff i'm working on that's all part of open ai people just don't realize it and that moment and then you know your questions to him about equity your thoughts on um i'm not sure i was like the main guy who asked that question jacob but um
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, no, you do talk about the nonprofit, the difference between the nonprofit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I think that's a great insight, David, because he was talking about, hey, I'm looking for a senior team member who can push back on me and understands all context. I thought that was like a very interesting to think about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And we can talk about the Apple ad in depth. I just want to also make sure people understand when people come on the pod, we don't show them questions. They don't edit the transcript. Nothing is out of bounds. If you were wondering why I didn't ask or we didn't ask about the Elon lawsuit, he's just not going to be able to comment on that. So it'd be a no comment. So, you know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I just want to make sure people understand.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, let's take a bio break and then we'll come back with some news for you and some more banter with your favorite besties on the number one podcast in the world, the All In Podcast. All right, welcome back, everybody. Second half of the show, great guests, Sam Altman, thanks for coming on the pod. We've got a bunch of news on the docket, so let's get started.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Freyberg, you told me I could give some names of the guests that we've booked for the All In Summit. I did not. You did.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
enough critical mass uh to feel like we should go out there well uh i am a loose cannon so i will announce my two guests and i created the summit and you took it from me so i've done a great job i will announce my guests i don't care what your opinion is i have booked two guests for the summit and it's going to be sold out look at these two guests i booked
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
For the third time coming back to the summit, our guy Elon Musk will be there. Hopefully in person, if not, you know, from 40,000 feet on Starlink connection, wherever he is in the world. And for the first time, our friend Mark Cuban will be coming. And so two great guests for you to look forward to. But Freeberg's got like a thousand guests coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
He'll tell you when it's like 48 hours before the conference. But yeah, two great guests coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Three billionaires, yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It hasn't fully confirmed, so don't... Okay, well, we're going to say it anyway. As penciled in. Don't say it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
We'll say penciled. Yeah, don't back out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It is stunning. Just congratulations. And yeah, it was just, when we went through the deck at the, at the monthly meeting, it was like, oh, that's nice. Oh, that's nice. We're going through the concept bottles. And then that bottle came up and everybody went like crazy. It was like somebody hitting like a Steph Curry hitting a half court shot. It was like, oh my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It was just so clear that you've made an iconic bottle of, that if we can produce it, oh, Lord, it is going to be a game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's going to be amazing. I'm excited. I'm excited for it. You know, it's like for other things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Listen, people have the right to protest. I think it's great people are protesting, but surrounding people and threatening them is a little bit over the top and dangerous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, I don't know exactly what happened because all we see is these videos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That's what the headlines say, but that could be fake news, fake social.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That tiny experimental fund that Sam and I were part of as scouts is Sequoia's highest multiple returning fund. A couple of low-digit millions turned into over 200 million, I'm told. Really? Yeah, that's what I was told by Ruloff, yeah. And he did a stint at Y Combinator, where he was president from 2014 to 2019.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's ridiculous. The only thing I will say that I've seen is this surrounding individuals who you don't want there and locking them in a circle and then moving them out of the protest area.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, it's also dangerous because, you know, things can escalate when you have mobs of people and large groups of people. So I just want to make sure people understand that. Large group of people, you have a diffusion of responsibility that occurs when there's large groups of people who are passionate about things and people can get hurt. People have gotten killed at these things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So just, you know, keep it calm, everybody. I agree with you. Like, what's the harm of these folks protesting on a lawn? It's not a big deal. When they break into buildings, of Of course.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, but I mean, let them sit out there and then they'll run out their food cars, their campus food cart, and they'll run out of waffles.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
My favorite was the woman who came out and said that the Columbia students needed humanitarian aid.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Is it really? I haven't heard the word peaceable before. I mean, you and I are simpatico on this. Like, I don't... We used to have the ACLU backing up the KKK going down Main Street and really fighting for... Yeah, the Skokie decision. Yeah, they were really fighting for... And I have to say, the Overton window is opened back up. And I think it's great. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
We got some things on the docket here. I don't know if you guys saw the Apple new iPad ad. It's getting a bunch of criticism. They used some giant... hydraulic press to crush a bunch of creative tools, DJ turntable, trumpet, piano. People really care about Apple's ads and what they represent. We talked about that Mother Earth little vignette they created here. What do you think, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Will you do? Will you do that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Did you see the ad? What was your reaction to it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. It just didn't land. I mean, Chamatha, how are you doing emotionally after seeing that? Are you okay, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
They were floating this rumor of buying Rivian, you know, after they shut down Titan Project, the internal project to make a car. It seems like a car is the only thing people can think of that would move the needle in terms of earnings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It was the best onion thing. It was like, we're doing 5. F it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
No, it makes no sense. And then, I don't know, anybody wants to... Remember the Apple Vision was going to change everything?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's a fair point. It's a fair point. Actually, you know what? Actually, this didn't come out yet, but it turns out the iPad is on Ozempic. It's actually dropped.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Oh, oh, oh, Ozempic. We could just workshop that right here. But there was another funny one, which was making the iPhone smaller and smaller and smaller and the iPod smaller and smaller and smaller to the point it was like, you know, like a thumb size iPhone. Like the Ben Stiller phone in Zoolander.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Is there a category that you can think of that you would love an Apple product for? There's a product in your life. that you would love to have Apple's version of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's a bummer, yeah. The one I always wanted to see them do, Zach, was... TV? The one I always wanted to see them do was the TV, and they were supposedly working on it, like the actual TV, not the little Apple TV box in the back. And that would have been extraordinary to actually have a gorgeous, you know, big television.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, it is. And they want to have everything built there. People don't remember, but they actually built one of the first digital cameras. You must have owned this, right, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, totally. It was beautiful. What did they call it? Was it the iCamera or something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
QuickTake, yeah. The thing I would like to see Apple build, and I'm surprised they didn't, was a smart home system the way Apple has Nest. Drop cam, a door lock, you know, AV system, go after Questron or whatever, and just have your whole home automated thermostat nest. All of that would be brilliant by Apple. And right now I'm an Apple family that has all of our home automation through Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So it's just kind of sucks. I would like that all to be integrated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yes. I mean, and everybody has a home, and everybody automates their home.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Right. That would be your hub.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. Like, can you imagine like the ring cameras, all that stuff being integrated? I don't know why they didn't go after that. That seems like the easy layup. Hey, you know, everybody's been talking, Friedberg, about this alpha fold, this folding proteins thing. And there's some new version out from Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And also, Google reportedly, we talked about this before, is also advancing talks to acquire HubSpot. So that rumor for the $30 billion market cap, HubSpot is out there as well. Freebreak, you're our resident science sultan, our resident sultan of science. And as a Google alumni, pick either story and let's go for it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Super interesting. Is this AI capable of making a science corner that David Sachs pays attention to?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
When you founded the organization, the stated goal or part of what you discussed was, hey, this is too important for any one company to own it. So therefore, it needs to be open. Then there was the switch. Hey, it's too dangerous for anybody to be able to see it. And we need to lock this down because you had some fear about that, I think. Is that accurate?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Folding Cells is the app that Saks, a casual game Saks just downloaded, is playing. How many chess moves did you make during that segment, Saks?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And this is a hundred billion dollar business. They say, Oh my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, open source when you're behind, closed source, lock it up when you're ahead. The Yamanaka, actually, interestingly, Yamanaka is the Japanese whiskey that Saks serves on his plane as well. It's delicious. I love that Hokkaido, Yakanama.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Somebody told me I should do, um, like Spalding gray, Eric Boghossian style stuff. I don't know if you guys remember like the, uh, the monologue is from the eighties in New York. It's like, Oh, that's interesting. Maybe. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. Can you believe we did it? Uh, the number one podcast in the world. And yeah,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Because the cynical side is like, well, this is a capitalistic move. And then the, I think, You know, I'm curious what the decision was here in terms of going from open. The world needs to see this. It's really important to close. Only we can see it. Well, how did you come to that conclusion?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
The All In Summit, the TED killer. If you are going to TED, congratulations for genuflecting. If you want to talk about real issues, come to the All In Summit. And if you are protesting at the all-in summit, let us know what mock meat you would like to have. Freeburg is setting up mock meat stations for all of our protesters. And what milk you would like. Yeah, all vegan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
If you want, if you're oat milk, soy nut milk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Just please, when you come to protest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
We have all of the nut milks you could want. And then there'll be mindful yoga with guns.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yes. On the south lawn, we'll have the goat yoga going on. So, just please note that. The goat yoga will be going on for all of you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's very thoughtful for you to make sure that our protesters are going to be well fed, well taken care of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yes. We're actually – Freiburg is working on the protester gift bags. The protester gift bags. They're made of Yakima-folded proteins. So, you're good. Yeah. Folding projects. I think I saw them opening for the Smashing Pumpkins in 2003. On fire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That's episode 178. And now the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th. You can apply for a ticket at summit.allinpodcast.co. Scholarships will be coming soon. If you want to see the four of us interview Sam Altman, you can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post. We're doing a Q&A episode live when the YouTube channel hits 500,000. And we're going to do a party in Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers. So look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash the all in pod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, the all in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
In 2016, he co-founded OpenAI with the goal of ensuring that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity. In 2019, he left YC to join OpenAI full-time as CEO. Things got really interesting on November 30th of 2022. That's the day OpenAI launched ChatGPT. In January 2023, Microsoft invested $10 billion. In November 2023, Over a crazy five-day span, Sam was fired from OpenAI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And on LinkedIn, just search for the All In Podcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash Freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. And you can follow Sachs at x.com slash David Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sachs recently spoke at the American Moment Conference and people are going crazy for it. It's pinned to his tweet on his ex-profile. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher. Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, et cetera. allinpodcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Everybody was going to go work at Microsoft. A bunch of heart emojis went viral on X slash Twitter, and people started speculating that the team had reached artificial general intelligence. The world was going to end, and suddenly... A couple days later, he was back to being the CEO of OpenAI. In February, Sam was reportedly looking to raise $7 trillion for an AI chip project.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, you've been working with Johnny Ive on something, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Sorry, everybody. I wasn't here last week. So what's your bid, J. Cal? Jump into your bid. No, there's no bid. I'm just, you know, triple vaxxed. I took the Paxlovid and I'm back, everybody. I know everybody was very concerned about me. Thank you to everybody. But I can take my mask off, right, Freeberg? Do I need a mask in 2024?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, it is a very unique SACS geography and economy. So SACS, your thoughts on this overall and what we can expect. Maybe you could take the future looking, forward looking and prediction crystal ball. Go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
This was, I think, in Us Weekly. Here it is. Here's Chamath getting his gold medal. Okay. Oops. Whoa. Now, this is in the category of being the biggest prick. Now, just let people know, Chamath has been the biggest prick. Other people were there, too, by the way. It wasn't just Chamath. Freeberg was also there. Here's Freeberg. Most likely to fight a girl. Yeah, there it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It's one huge upside to the SACs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, and obviously when you get 158 yen to the dollar, this is extraordinary. I was talking with Tucker and we just took our Niseko ski trip this year from four days to seven because it is just such a great deal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And Chamath, at some point, the percentage of your debt to GDP, we've talked about it so much on this show. You've said previously, hey, we can have a little bit of this because we're a very strong dollar. So when you look at Japan, is there some lesson here for the US or maybe some warning here that we shouldn't necessarily follow them too far down this road? Nope. Okay. Keep printing money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Got it. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Well, just buy Bitcoin. And when it goes to a million dollars a coin, we can just pay it all down. So problem solved.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He was in the... Am I the Syrian...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So should we have more increased regulation or increased scrutiny on this, Chamath? You've talked about it before when we had some of these hedge funds flip and we talked about maybe some regulation, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Sax was there too, though, by the way. Here he is. He won silver for the least Olympic body. Well done, Sax. Look at that. The least. Look at that pasty white. I think you got robbed of the gold. There you go, Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And so people at home understand when we move on to the next phase of the financial markets, All of those people had to cover those trades, which means they all have to sell assets at the same time as buying in or covering the end. And that's what causes this acute chaos in the markets where you saw the NASDAQ go down 6%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Or in some cases, maybe people wanted to take some chips off the table since things were- Yeah, but they're just going to put that trade back on.
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So let's talk about the landing here in the US. Let's get US-centric now. And it looks like maybe it's going to be a bumpy landing rather than a soft landing, as one might suspect. And as we talked about here, that we think this could be bumpy to soft. July's job reports was pretty bad, which is good in some ways when you're thinking about inflation. So the new jobs added were way down.
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Growing 114,000 in July. And a bunch of these estimates have been reported downward over the past year, just so we make a note of that. And this was below the Dow Jones estimate of 185,000. There's your chart. It just keeps ticking down.
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Since the Fed started hiking rates, and you hear anecdotally about all of your friends, 88% of millennials right now are actually preparing to be laid off, according to a recent survey. Unemployment is way up in the short term here. We're at 4.3% in July. That's the highest since October of 2021, up from 4.1%. last month and 3.5% in July.
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At the very least, the Ozeptic and Wegovy, you lost the weight, but you didn't add any muscle definition. That's known, right, Friedberg? It's known. You lose the muscle, right? That's right. Fat and the muscle. I was there too, by the way, and I'm very, very proud to say, in a photo finish, you can see me there. You guys know this one, right? This is the 100-meter virtue signal.
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So you take that July number to now, it's pretty significant. Here's your chart on the jobs. Obviously, historically, it's low, but it's ticking up pretty quickly, which is what you would expect with the rate hikes. And we had this great moment of hourly earnings growth going up. So how much people make on average
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per hour was going up, and I think that was causing a decent amount of the consumer enthusiasm in the economy. Here it is. It's coming way down from almost 6% down to 3.5%. And so that means Fed rate cuts are coming. Here's your chart from a prediction market of the chances of how much the Fed cuts rates this year. Looks like 75 to 100 basis points is the majority.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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About 60% of people believe it will be one of those two numbers. I'll stop there. There's a lot more to talk about here and we'll get into specific companies and the NASDAQ. Let me pull up this last chart before I go to you, Chamath.
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It's been a strong year for the market, S&P and NASDAQ, both up 11% year to date as of Thursday morning, but obviously a massive, I guess, do we call it a correction when it's, yeah, 20% is correction territory, Chamath. So your thoughts on the wider US market and the sell-off?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay. Freiburg technical definition of a recession is two quarters in a row of negative GDP. We haven't had that, but we're sort of bouncing along that possibility. Is the recession baked in or if they cut rates at the extent the prediction markets are predicting and they're signaling, do you think we have a nice rebound? How do you feel about the overall US economy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So you see there, Reid Hoffman just edged me out, and I'm right ahead of Paul Graham. So virtue signaling, 100 meter dash. It was pretty grand. It was pretty grand. But congrats to Reid Hoffman also coming on the pod to debate you, Sext.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Sachs, let's talk about this soft to bumpy landing. Consumers are definitely weakening on the low end. Airbnb and Amazon are an example of bargain hunting, people who are looking for discounts, who want to save money with those services. Higher end services that have a bigger price tag like Uber and some of the
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, so let me take one of these off.
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high-end retailers are showing actual growth, and they're saying the consumer's strong. So it was a tale of two cities during this earnings season with a bunch of the high-end folks saying strong consumers on the high end, weak consumers on the low end. What are the chances we go into a recession?
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And a second question for you, Elon was recently on Lex Freeman for, I think, eight days or something. It was like a record podcast of how long he was on. But one of the things he talked about was that he had discussed with Trump And Vivek has been very strong about this on our podcast and other places.
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And he was a leading VP candidate of making the government more efficient and radically cutting the amount of spending. But there would be a reaction. So does the potential GOP administration have a platform to cut costs massively or not? And do you think that would have been maybe too unpopular to sort of unveil that plan now as a presidential candidate in either party?
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I know. Very hard. I felt like silver in this case was a gold, given the competition, right? If you meddle in that group of virtue signals, you're good.
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10% year over year, 5% month over month is very significant, yeah.
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All right. Well, listen, I want to corner everybody here with a question. You got to answer the question. You can't avoid the hard questions here on the All In podcast. Chamath, sitting here a year from now, mark it up or we experience a recession defined as two quarters of negative GDP. Which one is the more likely scenario? Mark it up or a recession.
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Give it a percentage or just which is more likely? Freeberg, you're next.
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All right, everybody, welcome back to the All In podcast. Of course, the number one podcast in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay. So you lean towards... I'll just go recession, no recession in the next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Ah, got it. Okay. So we could have a recession, but the market goes up. So to unpack that, I am with you on that same prediction, because I do think people are addicted to efficiency. They're going to lay people off and earnings are going to keep ripping as these companies become managed so well.
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I think it's a good point, but I do see McDonald's, Starbucks, and some of those consumer retailers are taking steps right now to right-size their businesses and offer $5 meals or $3 coffee. So I do think there's a
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Well, but they're also cutting stores and they're cutting things and projects that are inefficient. So I just think there's going to be massive efficiency in all sectors. That's going to be the theme for the next year.
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What was a whole fish? Tell us.
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and i'm back daddy's home and we've got a very full docket sacks will get his red meat at the end for all the maga lunatics in the comments don't worry he's gonna get his red meat but we got bigger fish to fry in the markets markets were down big on monday due to something called the yen carry trade The Dow was down 700 points. NASDAQ was down like 6%. It was unsettling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Freiburg, greater chance of a recession in the next year or not a recession? You have to give an answer. Yeah, I think there's a great chance of a recession. Yeah, majority chance of recession, got it.
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It's getting uncomfortable. You're in the clear for one. Okay, you know what? I'll take the third mask off. Totally free. Mask free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So are you majority case recession or majority case not recession in the next year?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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You predicted nine of the last five recessions.
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Unknown unknowns. Yeah.
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Social media went crazy on Sunday night that it was going to be the end of the world, the beginning of a recession, maybe a depression. And this all happened because Japan's central bank raised their interest rates by a whopping... 15 to 25 basis points. And we'll explain why that's important in just a moment. We'll get Chamath to give us a little overview here of the yen carry trade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And for people who don't know, we're talking about the concept of black swans. In order to have a black swan, it has to be something you're not aware of and it has to have a dramatic impact. The yen trade would not fall into this because people were well aware of it, even if it wasn't front page news and it didn't have a dramatic impact. But there could be black swans sitting there
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Obviously, the black swan that you can think of recently would be in the great financial crisis, the subprime mortgage. That truly was massively impactful, and it was not known. Dotcom was known and was massively impacted. You need both of those categories to define a black swan. And there could be black swans, right, Sax? Is what you're saying.
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Correct. But it didn't. So just so people who are tracking the Black Swan tracker, just the more you know. Let's talk about Apple. Chamath, I'll give you your flowers right now. They're coming to you. Just look to your left. Here comes a huge bouquet because you predicted... I didn't actually send you flowers. He looked to his left. But here's your virtual flowers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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You predicted, I think absolutely correctly, that the less Berkshire Hathaway and Buffett talk in their documents and their letters and at their events about a trade, the more they're falling out of love with it. And I understand Berkshire Hathaway has sold half of their largest position, which is Apple. Some people are saying because they don't have faith in the company.
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Some people are saying because they're over... other people saying because they, Freiburg, want to get more cash on the books to make other acquisitions. So Chamath, maybe just take your victory lap and then we'll, I think Freiburg double clicked on this and did a deep dive.
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But this is a big deal because Japan has had its interest rates at near zero, even negative since 1999. So this little blip on the chart is the interest rate going up there in Japan. So quick explainer, and then Chamath will have you go deeper. The yen carry trade is a pretty basic concept investors borrow at 0% interest or close to it due to this 0% interest rate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I don't know. I think it's pretty deft. Sachs, your thoughts on this massive increase in cash and what Berkshire Hathaway is thinking. What is Warren Buffett thinking here? Is it he became overweight, Apple, or that he's building up cash because the recession is coming and he wants to buy things on the cheap? Or regulation, to Freiburg's point.
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What do you think of the regulatory risk argument Freeberg is floating here, Chamath?
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And then you convert your yen into another currency or perhaps a stock like Nvidia and you take the spread. So the goal is obviously to return a higher rate than the cost of borrowing the yen. And so here's an example of it. If you just want to look at the flow, you borrow some yen at 0%, you invested in stocks, whatever,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So what you're saying, China dependency, both of those have a China dependency. So he maybe felt the overall portfolio had too much China dependency.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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When you say that, you're saying he wants to hand it off with less risk in it. Dependency on one stock would be risk. Dependency on China would be risk. He wants to make it really clean so the handoff is smoother. He wants to hand off a very organized book.
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You get some appreciation, and then you liquidate the stocks, and you pay back your bill. Of course, this could all go horribly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I mean, this is just an extraordinary amount of cash to be held by both Apple. Apple also has over $100 billion in cash now. Warren Buffett has close to $300 billion. Allocators want to make trades, and obviously he's got a better trade I think he can make on this, whether that's the 5% he's going to get on the $300 billion, or maybe there's something he wants to buy. That's another possibility.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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So great job wrapping this all up. And let's pivot to the federal judge that ruled that Google has an illegal monopoly in search and advertising. This is huge news. Perhaps this is the biggest news in the tech industry for a couple of years. On Monday, a judge ruled that Google had acted illegally to maintain its monopoly in online search.
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If you remember, this was filed under the Trump administration in 2020 by the DOG. The 277-page ruling agrees that Google abused its search business monopoly by paying billions of dollars to third-party platforms like Apple and Samsung in order to be their default search engine. So it's not just that you have the monopoly, it's how you maintain the monopoly.
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This is called TAC, Traffic Acquisition Cost. We've talked about it here many times. According to the suit, Google conducts around 90% of web searches. I think we all know that. Companies disputing that claim. The ruling doesn't contain remedies yet for Google's behavior. They're going to decide that in a subsequent ruling. Obviously, Google is going to fight this.
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It could result in a change in business practices, i.e., they cannot pay Firefox, Samsung, Apple to be the default search engine anymore. That will lead to many interesting possibilities. Chamath and I were discussing them on X.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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and so this is huge news uh this is going to be great i think for the search engine market i know apple from my time doing mahalo a human powered search engine over 10 years ago when i sent it to steve jobs he opened it up in the middle of the night and started playing with it and there were many reviews of or many rumors of apple wanting to be in the search business because they had a contentious relationship with google obviously
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When Google competed with Android, that upset Steve Jobs greatly. And also Google created Chrome, which also Safari and Chrome competing with each other. It's not out of the question, I think Chamath, that you could see Apple when they lose this $20, $30 billion deal for TAC, to start their own search engine by DuckDuckGo. Brave has an amazing search engine and a search API.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And they've obviously, they've got a crawler. So people don't know this, but Apple has a crawler. My prediction is Apple buys a search engine and they go it alone and expand their advertising network like Amazon, Uber, and other companies have. What's your take on this and what we're going to see in the future? Will this ruling stand up? And then what are the downtree market impacts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah, and you just have to pay back the loan. Of course, Chamath, this can all go very wrong if a number of things happen. So maybe you could give us an overview of this kind of trade. Have you ever done something like this? What do you think of these type of trades, these quote-unquote free money trades, picking up free money off the ground trades?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, Sachs, not to make it political, but this is the government stopping corporate America, so it can't not be political. What's your take here and what will we see in the future? More regulation, more rulings like this, slap on the wrist, breakup. Is this more to come or this is peak regulation in your mind of big tech?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Here's a real time search. I just did Donald Trump. As you can see, the first one that came up was a Harris story about Trump and Harris. Google has actually addressed this issue. The issue is actually, I think, I'll take a little bit of the other side of it, not bias in the algorithm, but bias in media. The overwhelming majority of media is left-leaning.
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and there's a very small amount of Republican right-leaning media when compared to the left, obviously. And so when you do a search for Donald Trump, you've got the first three choices, New York Times left-leaning, Washington Post left-leaning, Newsweek left-leaning, CNN left-leaning, Daily Beast super left-leaning. Five of five are left-leaning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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That really is the issue, is that there isn't enough GOP or right-leaning media to actually make this work. That's at least my take on it.
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Well,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Let me just give the statistics here. Hold on. Kamala Harris, I just did a search. First five, New York Times, NBC, The Hill, CNN. Is The Hill right or left? I don't know. They're left. Would you say sex? It's left, yeah. They're left. And then Forbes- which I think would be considered right. And then Fox, obviously, right. So, I mean, it's just the percentage of news sources here.
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Yes, ma'am.
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Okay, explain unwinding, yeah.
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I'm going to take the complete other side of this, but Freberg, I want to give you a chance because you worked at Google. I think you know a lot about the algorithm. Is there an explanation for this that makes technical, logical sense given what you know about the algorithm? And then I'll give my position and then Chamath, you can go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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I don't believe that. Hold on. Let me get Chamath involved here on this issue, and then I'll give my position. Chamath, do you have any thoughts on this, generally speaking? I do want to come back to the antitrust ruling in a minute. Okay, absolutely. Sachs thinks the fix is in. Freberg thinks this is explained algorithmically, but...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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that Google could do a better job explaining and being more transparent about the algorithm. I agree with that. 100% Google has always considered a black box.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The number of independent journalists in left-leaning publications is like 30 to 1 at that. places like Fox News, which is largely opinion daily, largely opinion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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He didn't say, Sachs, I got to stop you there. He didn't say biased. What we said was it's 20 or 30 to one. It's outnumbering. So if the pool of things to search and come up with is 30 to one, it's of course going to appear biased, which is what they need to do is they need to show who's in the ranking, what percentage are left, what percentage are right, what percentage are middle of the road.
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Show that at the top.
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Okay, I'll tell you the also answer. Um, this was the week Kamala, or this the last 10 days or so of Kamala taking the position, raising tons of money, hiring her VP and Trump disappearing from public life for 10 days. So there's also a, on top of the 30 to one ratio, let's say left-leaning journalists to right. You also have, this was Kamala's coronation week.
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So therefore it's going to be, I don't think Google is in the bag with our algorithm anyway. I think it's the source material they're indexing. Chamath, what are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I got the COVID. Just to explain to everybody, I went to Billy Joel's final concert with my daughter. We had a great time. It was his final MSG.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Let me finish.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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Okay, I feel like Saxon and I got to the perfect place. I agree. Google's filled with obviously left-leaning. Don't deny that. I agree that the media is biased. They all picked a side. And then I just want to show you one chart because it's super important for you to understand. The number of people in...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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journalism, this is from 1971 to 2022, who say they are identifying as Republican has just absolutely plummeted. I know this, and this is what I'm trying to explain to you, Sax, is an incredible opportunity for your party, since you're passionate about this, is to invest in more journalism, invest in more journalists, because I don't buy this independence.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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The fact that they're claiming they're independent in journalism, I believe that's cap. I believe they say that. But the gap is 33% now between people who say they're Democrats and people who say they're Republican in journalism. That is a key piece to this problem. And layered on top of it, I agree with you that Google is filled with liberal people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
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And I agree with you, Chamath, that they need to intervene and put at the top of the search results in news These are the, you know, this is what we're indexing. This is the percentage that's left-leaning. This is the percentage that's right-leaning. And there are a lot of organizations that examine and rate publications on their bias left and right.
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And that's something that Google could do that's very unique and that could move the whole country forward.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
which is they could showcase that up top. So to my friends at Google who are listening, do a better job of just being more transparent so we don't have this tension in society. Okay, it's time for Sax's red meat. Sax, we have a VP candidate. You have been absolutely waiting for this moment. The race is a dead heat. Here's your second course of red meat. I brought you that giant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You know what this is?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It's the steak- This is the stake for two for one. You ordered the stake for two for one, Sax. Get in there. Medium rare. You got your cowboy cut. What did you think when you saw Kamala Harris and her VP pick move ahead in the almost universally all polls and prediction markets to the lead over your boys, Trump and Vance. What did you think of the pick? Go ahead. Enjoy your steak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And you want to speculate? Your chance to bash the Democrats and speculate. Go, Chimam.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay. Freeberg, your thoughts? We're dancing around the issue here. You had talked a couple of weeks ago about an organization that didn't want to put a Jewish person in the top position or in a top position. Do you think that this is, or there are any concerns of Shapiro being Jewish that caused him not to be selected?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Or do you think maybe he bowed out because he wants to run for president, as some people are saying, and maybe his star shines a little too bright for the second position? What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Marble is an interesting term.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It means it's absolutely in the fabric.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, no, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Or he was deployed during that time. I think this sounds like a lot of cap. He was deployed during that time, but he wasn't in combat, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He would have outshined her for sure. Shapiro is really good at speaking and eloquent and she's not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
There's no bit here. I'm just saying, I'm letting people know that I think I got COVID at the last Billy Joel show. It was a great show. Shout out, Billy Joel. But it was 48 hours. That was very intense. And then I took that Paxlovid and I came right out of it. So apologies to everybody. But man, it was no joke.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Here is the quote in question. Harris campaign, and this is from the New York Times, had promoted this on social media, just so we're clear when we're making all these claims that he did steal valor, that he has not been convicted of stealing valor, which is a natural crime. Just so we get things right here on the pod. Here's the quote.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
that he said we can make sure that those weapons of war that I carried in war is the only place where those weapons are act and so mister waltz never served in combat and that quote that he made I guess people are now weaponizing to say that he's saying, here's a quote, those weapons of war that I carried in war is the only place where those weapons are. So he was not in war, technically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He was a reserve, and his battalion was going to be
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
uh called he claims so that's a guess what we are questioning and vance said i'd be ashamed if i was him and i lied about my military service like he did this i could see where people might be a little bit i can see both sides of this issue so actually want to uh dunk on him or yeah i'm not going to dunk because this is still an unfolding story and it's going to play out over the next couple weeks and we'll see where it lands but
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I would like to thank both JD Vance and Waltz for their service. I appreciate both of their service. I'll leave it at that from my perspective.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Of course not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Of course, yeah. So I guess we'll see how this plays out. All right, everybody, this has been another amazing episode of the All In podcast. To recap, Google's big news, the markets are in flux, the end trade is off, and Kamala Harris leads the race. We've got eight weeks left. We'll be here for you every single week, and we will be seeing some of you at the, I believe, sold out All In Summit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Are we sold out right now, Friedberg? Master of Ceremonies, Friedberg, executive producer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
What do people need to know about their party outfits?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I'm going to work on my... Biff, get your damn hands off her, Biff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
McFly. McFly. All I know is Tremat's wearing a Speedo.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Biff, get your damn heads off her. I love you guys. I gotta go. Love you. Okay. Enjoy Italy. We'll see you on the lake, everybody. For the Sultan of Science, the architect, the dictator, I am the executive producer and world's greatest moderator, Executive Producer for Life. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Love you, boys. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, S. I'm the queen of Wet your feet. We need to get merchies already.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And now, the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles, September 8th, 9th, and 10th. You can apply for tickets, summit.allinpodcast.co. And you can subscribe to this show on YouTube. Yes, watch all the videos. Our YouTube channel has passed 500,000 subscribers. Shout out to Donnie from Queens. Follow the show, x.com slash the all in pod. TikTok, the all in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Instagram, the all in pod. LinkedIn, search for all in podcast. And to follow Chamath, he's x.com slash Chamath. Sign up for his weekly email. What I read this week at chamath.substack.com and sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and see what all the excitement is about. Follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs and sign up for Glue at glue.ai. Follow Friedberg, x.com slash friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. I am the world's greatest moderator, Jason Calacanis. If you are a founder and you want to come to my accelerators and my programs, founder.university, launch.close.apply to apply for funding from your boy, J-Cal, for your startup. End. Check out athenowow.com. This is the company I am most excited about at the moment.
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Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
athenowow.com to get a virtual assistant for about $3,000 a month. I have two of them. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. You can help by telling just two friends. That's all I ask. Forward this podcast to two friends and say, this is the world's greatest podcast. You got to check it out. It'll make you smarter. It'll make you laugh, laugh while learning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye. Pull up this clip of Hellmuth, because he loves when we talk about him on the show. Even though he's banned from the show by Chamath for life. He took Saks, the battery pack of the log. He got... This guy had pocket jacks to his ace queen, I think. He hits his queen or his ace, and he loses his mind, but he's in good spirits for the first half of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Play this clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You want me to quit?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
No, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, there is no free money in this free money trade. And just to translate a little bit of this on the margins for the audience who's not familiar with it, margin is a loan. Fancy way of saying a loan, margin call, you have some asset that backs it up. In your case, it might be a civilian, it might be your house, whatever, your bank account.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
In these cases, these big companies, these hedge funds might have cash or equities. And if they come down and they have to pay the loan, they are forced to liquidate it. And in some cases, those assets are controlled by the person giving the loan, and they will just start programmatically selling your shares in whatever, Apple, Google, whatever, Nvidia, you own- Whatever you own.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
... to pay down that margin. And this is called a margin call, thus the name of the movie. And so it's incredibly dangerous. And the leverage is You and I can, or like any civilian, could borrow $500,000 against their $2 million house and home equity. Rich people in these big banks, they can borrow 10 or 20 times the value of the assets, which then could lead to absolute chaos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Freeberg, let's go to you next and just talk a little bit about what's going on in Japan because they have had a rush of people buying their stocks, the population declining. It's a very unique situation. economy, maybe you could talk a little bit about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Great story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I sneezed earlier today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah. The Olympics happened. Are you guys taking the Olympics at all? Freeberg, you seem like a guy who would watch obscure Olympic sports.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Anyway, it's all moot because, you know, the paparazzi were there and they took pictures, Chamath. Do you know this big paparazzi in Paris this year because of all the celebrities there? Yeah, the paps are all over the place in Europe. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. I'm sure you saw them in Italy. It's getting crazy. But they got you when you were getting your gold medal. Nick, pull it up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And so they're setting, Friedberg, the interest rate in the country and they own the debt. So they're basically in control of, or they're manipulating the economy and trying to control it. Correct, Friedberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And if they don't pay a high interest rate, then people don't buy future bonds. If they do raise it, they have to pay that rate. So this is the conundrum, Friedberg, if I were to summarize it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
But also buying the debt, Chamath, who's buying debt if you're not getting anything on the coupon, correct? That's another challenge they face in Japan is that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, everybody, welcome to the world's greatest podcast. With me again today. The world's number one podcast. Yes, the world's number one podcast. We came in eighth last week, I think, for those of you looking at the iTunes rankings, which is absurd. We've only got to beat Ben Shapiro. Number eight across all of Apple? Something like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
What happened? Did Uber get bought by Tesla?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh, breaking news story. Hold on. It's a breaking news story. Tesla has launched mezcal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, Snacks. Why are you destroying democracy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Breaking news.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
There you go. Wait a second. Is this going to compete with the all-in? A little bit. A little bit. Uh-oh. Well, it'll be all sold out by the time we launch our ball.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We're both going to be sold out. See that? Everybody can win. It's not a zero-sum game. Everybody can secure the bag. All right, let's get into the docket. Enough of the self-referential.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We're all influencers. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot of federal regulation going on around AI, as we know, regulatory capture. Shout out to our guy, Bill Gurley, who did a great talk last year about this. On Wednesday, the New York Times reported that the DOJ and the FTC had struck a deal on how to go after AI incumbents. Here's the terms of the deal. And again, this is all breaking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
The DOJ gets to investigate whether NVIDIA violated antitrust laws. They didn't specify what they're going after here, but it could include the NVIDIA use of CUDA software to lock customers into using their GPUs, or maybe how NVIDIA distributes their GPUs to customers. There's a lot of regulation around that. And the FTC takes the lead on looking into OpenAI's conduct in Microsoft's AI deals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Obviously, there's been a ton of those including acqui hires, etc. And then just this morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that the FTC had opened a probe into Microsoft's deal with inflection AI. That's the one if you remember, where they bought the staff and then did some fakaka crazy commerce deal where they give them a bunch of money, I guess to bail out the investors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And that one is as conflicted up and down as you could possibly imagine. They note Microsoft structured that deal in a way that could avoid regulatory scrutiny. You heard that here first, actually. We talked about this concept of a shadow acqui-hire on this very program when we saw it, because we'd never seen a deal like that. It includes that $650 million licensing fee. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
There's tons of other angles here. But let's start with you, Chamath. What are your thoughts on this regulatory capture and Nvidia's ascension? For those of you not watching, it's almost become the largest market cap company in tech. Actually, today, Nvidia passed Apple for a moment in time. So this is pretty crazy what we've seen with Nvidia. And here we go, regulatory capture coming in hot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Chamath, your thoughts? I have two thoughts. They're sort of mixed emotions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
That's actually the key issue. And this goes to Chamath, what we talked about. If we're going to police something, tactics... makes sense, not future competition, which has been Lena Kahn's sort of approach to this. And she's only going to be in the position for another couple of months if the election goes the way it's going. So this might all be moot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Freeberg, I want to get your thoughts on this. We had that great talk, 2,851 miles from Bill and regulatory capture at the summit. You can look, it would be in the show notes if you haven't seen it. It's great talk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Just regulatory capture in the framing of AI? Is it too early? Hey, we're like, in the we're not even in the first inning here. And already, we're going to start investigating everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Your thoughts, David Sachs, especially in light of the fact that looking like we're going to have some regime change in Washington and the FTC is going to turn over, obviously, if that happens.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I'd say two is a good way to look at it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, and if you want to understand why people are coming to your fundraiser tonight, if you put all this together, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're a venture capitalist or an entrepreneur and you want to see M&A and you want to see entrepreneurship and you want to see your companies thrive and you want to see your employees get rich and have options, Biden is basically handing the election to Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And this speaks to this desal versus acceleration movement that we see here in Silicon Valley and this is what we see in Texas. Florida, UAE, Riyadh, Doha. There are places in the world, Singapore, where people are accelerating innovation. And this is what humans want. Not just entrepreneurs, not just venture capitals. All of us want to see an acceleration of innovation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Everybody wants to see prosperity. And if you put yourself up as the de-sell candidate, we're not going to allow M&A. We're going to screw with options. We're going to do all this stuff. People are just not going to vote for you. And people want crypto legal. So take the memo.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I mean, the fact that the Democrats can't field a candidate that aligns with what humanity wants is absolutely mind boggling. This is why I think Biden's getting hot swapped this month. You heard it here first. Gavin is going to be running for president. It's going to be Trump and Gavin. They are hot swapping Biden after this first debate. Biden is going to get demolished by Trump in the debate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, whatever their top episodes are on the weekends. Well, that means we crushed on Spotify then.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
It's going to be elder abuse. He's getting wiped out and hot swapped. You heard it here first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
If you made a list, let's just make the list here right now. Make the list of things Trump is in support of, right? And Republicans are in support of right now. They're going to be pro M&A. They're going to be pro crypto. They're going to be pro less taxes. They're going to be pro law and order. You know what? That's where I align. Those are the things I want.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So if you just list the issues for me, despite how I might feel about Trump and some of the things he's done, he checks off all my boxes. He checks off all my boxes. And I think that's what's happening here. And people were scared to come out and say, this person checks off all my boxes. The Democrats need to realize they're out of sync with America.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They're out of sync with powerful people in America, especially the donor base. They're the decel party now. And they just have to flip this thinking. They're going to get demolished. It is going to be a landslide at this point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think you make a great point. Take the win. I mean it. And crypto is such an obvious win. And you know what? Trump's anti-EV right now. He's been wailing on EVs. I guarantee you that's the next thing. I bet you next week he comes out. Next week, within the next two weeks, here's my prediction. Trump says, you know what? EV is not so bad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Remember, he's been saying EVs, nobody wants these things. We're subsidizing. I bet you next week or maybe in 30 days, I'm making a prediction here. You bank the prediction. In 30 days, Trump comes out magically in support of EVs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah. And by the way, I'd say in the next... 30 to 60 days, you're going to see 10 incredibly high profile people come out in support of Trump if Biden isn't swapped out. And when I say high profile, I have the inside line on this extremely high profile people, not just Doug Leone, not just David Sachs and Chamath Bhaiyapatiya.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
It is going to be about 10 high profile people who are much higher profile, respectfully, than Chamath and Sachs and Doug Leone. So just wait for it, folks. You cannot be a decelerist in, you know, this world. Let's keep moving. Roaring Kitty, aka Keith Gill, just disclosed a nine figure position in GameStop. Yes, we're back to where this podcast started.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We're talking about GameStop and stonks as crazy as it is. And a E trade is considering suspending his account. This is going to take a little bit of background. I apologize here. I don't mean to deplatforming him. Here we go again. Quick background. You remember the first basically viral moment for this podcast, this AI moment, I remember I was in Tahoe skiing, was the GameStop saga back in 2021.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Thousands of retail investors following this individual, Keith Gill, were posting in this subreddit called WallStreetBets, if you're not familiar, and they created a massive short squeeze, and they sent the stock flying. Robinhood halted the trading. Remember, Vlad came on. That one all went crazy. We covered that all. And then Keith Gill went silent for the past three years on Twitter and Reddit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
He said nothing. Then on May 12th, he posted this meme on X, which has been viewed 28 million times. Now, if you don't know this meme, this is the lean forward meme when you've got a game controller in your hand. It is a way to signal like, hey, we're getting to the boss level. It's going to get exciting. Here's your GameStop chart, folks. You see that first peak?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
That's when we reported on it back in 2021. And here we go again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So GameStock stock tripled at the posting of that meme. Why is this important? Well, he has a huge position. He increased it from 200,000 shares, basically to 5 million, had 120,000 call options. Jamal will comment on all this in a moment. If he exercised all these calls, Gill could own an additional 12 million shares. Here's Gary Gensler, who was on CNBC Wednesday trying to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
like calm the markets down and or try to get control of this craziness. Here's the clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Chamath, you've You've had a lot of comments on the markets and specifically this one over the years. What are your thoughts? Is posting this meme stock manipulation or disclosure?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, he just had a fundraiser like two weeks ago or something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Sacks, I think we have to go to Judge Sacks here. Judge Sacks, what is your verdict? Are memes stock manipulation? Judge Sacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Freiburg, you got thoughts on this? Market manipulation or meme, stonk, fun, good times. You're buying GameStop. You're buying AMC. Buyer beware. You're in on the joke. What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They have $5 billion in revenue selling games?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think this is well said. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying stonks like this, if you're playing poker in a, if you're playing bomb pots, look it up, folks, if you don't know what bomb pots are, and you're going crazy playing bomb pots for eight hours like we did the other week, you're there to gamble. If you are playing bomb bots, this is the bomb bots of the stock market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Have fun, go crazy. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying crypto and the latest token, you know what you're getting into.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh man, this could be deadly for Saks. Saks didn't know about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Or equities, you know, and they're in the working class, and the working class in the factories got gutted, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We will take the goddamn 818!
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh my God, this is so great. This guy is so good. Sax, do you know about this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Look at Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We should get this guy out to the summit. This guy's got to come to the summit and do a live hand with Mr. Beast. Big shout out. Is he on TikTok or no? I think he only does Insta. Yeah, Tim Nack. I haven't seen Sax listen to Freeburg on this podcast more than he just did. That was incredible. You got Sax's attention. Sax, did you know you could play live online blackjack from your phone?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Did you know this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
This is important information for all of us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
This guy's got great energy. Can he do one live on the show next week?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
That dealer change was so dirty. You saw the dealer change at the last minute. He came up and they changed the dealer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I've been with you when they've done that. They do that every time with you. When you start running it up, they send in the dealer to ice you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We know the one. The blank cooler. I don't want to say anything, but it's the cooler. We need this guy next week on the pod to do the live bet. And then we each give him 5k. How about that? You guys in?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Nick, I want this guy on the pod next week. We're each putting five dimes in. We got 20K from all in. Let's do it. That would be so much juice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
On the summit, let's take the profits from the summit and do a live hand. We could put like a million bucks each on it. We double up and then we're done with the pod. We don't have to do a summit next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Let's do it. Let's let it roll. All right. God, this is so much action for us. I don't know if we can continue, but there's more stories to come. And just buyer beware. I mean, if you're betting on this stuff, I mean, what do we have to tell you? If you're betting on GameStop. No, we don't have to tell you anything. You're an adult. You're an adult.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, here's something really interesting. Put on your seatbelt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
By the way, if you swim in Cape Cod alone in the deep water and the kelp edge, you might get hit by a great white shark.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, I mean, also, I just want to ask one question here. Is there anything with the short selling that could be more disclosure on that, Shamath? Just if the SEC was going to do something. I hear that bubble up once in a while.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Explain synthetic for the audience, because I don't think people know this concept.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Like, literally, you're labeling COVID at this point? I mean... What a joke. Oh, my Lord. So... I guess we have to, at the top of the show, talk about the fundraiser. And I guess this, like, Vinod Khosla came in hot this week and attacked the besties. Let's play the clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So in a way, it's almost like a parallel universe where bets are occurring on outcomes in the stock market that are not tied to the stocks in the stock market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And let's be honest, the people who are betting, I'll use the word betting here, the people who are betting on these things are not looking to get a 7% return or beat the average. I mean, they're looking to double their money in 48 hours. They know what they're getting in for.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They're just walking up to the roulette table and putting 10K on black or red and then clapping and seeing five reds in a row and saying, oh, it's got to be black next. I mean, they're Phil Helmuth-ing this. They don't say that when they lose the money. No, of course not. Yeah, no personal ownership here. Well, here's an interesting thing that's sort of related.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
A little bit of jurisdiction shopping or placing of companies and products continues, and Texas is very hot in this regard. BlackRock and Citadel are backing a new stock exchange to take on the New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ duopoly. So according to the Wall Street Journal, the exchange would be based in Texas and called the Texas Stock Exchange or the TXSE.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They've raised 120 million so far. It seems like a low number. And the general pitch here is the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ have become expensive and they've been increasing their compliance costs. NASDAQ has a new border Diversity target that went into effect at the start of this year, all the DEI stuff. And so this exchange is pitching itself as a CEO friendly and the anti-woke exchange.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So here's the plan timeline, file an SEC registration docs later this year, start facilitating trades next year, host the first new listing in 2026. Interesting, I guess that Citadel and BlackRock are in this group. Because they could bring a lot of business, obviously. And you know some of this other stuff that's been going on with Texas. Texas is now Tesla's corporate headquarters.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They moved it from Palo Alto in California to Texas in 2021. Your thoughts here, Chamath, on moving? Love it. Absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Why do you love it so much, Chamath? Tell them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Freiburg, any thoughts for you about more options?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, I mean, listen, the great irony of this is, as you know, the Democrats were supposed to be the party of the working people and Biden was supposed to be the pinnacle of that, like fighting for unions, fighting for the working person. And so they've just lost that whole thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right. In other news, Apple and OpenAI have reportedly struck an iPhone deal. According to Bloomberg, Apple is going to announce a major partnership with OpenAI at WWDC next week. ChatGPT will be integrated into iOS, which means Apple is outsourcing its AI chatbot, at least at the start.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I guess you could argue it benefits both sides because OpenAI gets access to over a billion phone users and Apple gets a native integration of a top tier platform. language model. Terms are not clear, but most people think this is going to be a short to midterm deal with Apple building out its own AI chatbot in the future, but it's just not ready for primetime right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Also plans to make Siri AI powered and bring AI features to the Apple ecosystem. You may have heard that Apple is going to try to let Siri dive deeper into apps, i.e. if you're ordering your DoorDash or Uber Eats or an Uber or Lyft or whatever, it might actually be able to execute those things inside of an app.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Interesting line from the article, Apple executives were concerned about reputational damage from a rogue chatbot. Some people within Apple have A philosophical aversion to having a chatbot at all. Very interesting. So thoughts on this SACS? Just getting you back in the loop here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, what's really interesting, I think, about this deal, Chamath, is... Apple is having a hard time getting people to upgrade their phones, right? And people have lost faith in the stock. Now you say, hey, we're going to put a language model on here. You can make it a local language model and have it be privacy protected. So that means you need more memory on the phone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You're going to need another chip on the phone. There's a distinct reason to upgrade now. If you had a language model on your phone and Siri was like this super Siri that actually got stuff done, I would upgrade my phone immediately. And right now I skip two or three generations. What are your thoughts on this as a way to maybe reinvigorate the iPhone franchise tomorrow? You buy it or not?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You're in the new form factor. I'm going to take the other side of the cap. I think that because you have this data on your phone, all your iMessages, all your documents, all your photos, videos, music collection. There's a unique set of data on that phone to make your personal LLM that's going to do extraordinary things for you because it's going to watch you and all your behavior on that phone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And man, if I can have a personal LLM that's been watching me order very specific sushi rolls or where I send my Ubers, what type of Ubers I like, what music I play, I feel like that LLM personalized to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I know, but I'm talking about the data set. So cool. Don't you agree?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
No, no, you're missing my point. The data of me clicking on the screen, that is not Apple's to collect.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think they'll collect it, put it in there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think it's the opposite. I think the app economy would thrive. You'd have this a great thing where I could tell it, order the same thing I ordered on DoorDash yesterday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Okay. Freeberg, your thoughts on this? Any thoughts? No. Okay. Well, let's get to this. It's time for Science Corner. Temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean are alarmingly high. Freeberg, a couple of weeks ago, we saw this crazy chart on the X about the Atlantic Ocean temperatures pre-hurricane Katrina right about now. And take us through this because it's very disconcerting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Not getting a lot of mainstream media press attention, but certainly- Let me ask you to just confirm a couple of things for me, because we live in a time where people are questioning science and scientists, and we have institutions we don't trust, whether it's
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
three-letter agencies in Washington or scientists and all these papers being written and everything we're finding out and nobody trusts anybody and we're sort of resetting trust.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I wanna just ask you as somebody I trust as a scientist, number one, global warming, temperatures increasing, putting aside what we do about it, temperatures in the ocean, it is undeniable are increasing at a rate that you would describe as concerning. Am I correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, I couldn't hear.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Okay, so this is super clarifying. This should not be controversial to anybody. We have temperature readings in the ocean, and this is concerning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So, you know, putting aside what political party you're on and what you think about gas and oil... I will tell you there's a lot of theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Chamath, your thoughts on Vinod's comments?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So these are complex systems and we should be delicate with them. If you were to give us a prescription here, Friedberg, What's like a basic prescription? Are we just experimenting in a way that is not advisable with, you know, this ecosystem and we should just not run the experiment? I think that might be like a non-political, non-charged way to say it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Like this experiment is a little bit too crazy to run on the one planet Earth we have. Yeah. Which experiment? The experiment of doing things that increase global warming, which would be... You mean living? Well, yeah, I mean, burning fossil fuels, people are just acting in their own economic best interest. Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And if that economic best interest increases temperature so much, do you have a fear, Freeberg, that it will compromise the oceans and damage them to a point that would be extremely concerning? I guess what I'm getting at.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, we understand that. Yeah, sure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
This is what I'm trying to get at, Freeberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh, yeah. That's what I'm getting at. Are you optimistic or are you pessimistic? Tell us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So, Chamath, I'll pull you into here. So, based on what Freeberg is saying here, yes, these things are occurring, but the technology and the advances we're seeing in but one example, solar, and then some people might bring up nuclear and other ones. We just had Phil Deutsch at my conference this week, give a great talk on this. Solar is just getting so cheap. Batteries are getting so cheap.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Putting batteries in your home, putting solar in, you know, and then putting data centers next to nuclear things. This is all adding up to we can solve this problem. And so you too feel optimistic about this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, everybody, this has been a very productive episode of the number one podcast in the world, the All In Podcast. And good luck tonight, gentlemen, with your fundraiser. I wish you great luck. David Sachs and Chamath Palihapiti, even if it's not my preferred candidate, that's totally fine. We can all differ, and you can have a great, great event tonight. Good luck. I have one thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Okay, go ahead, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh, it is? We love you, David. We love you, David. We had a nice little birthday cake at the Liquidity Summit this week for him. I had a cake made.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, happy birthday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
He's going to win all the odd number elections. And there we go. Here we go. I think it's a sign. It's a sign. Listen, I wish... Good luck to you all tonight. I hope that it goes off well for you, for you gentlemen. And listen, I would love to have Trump on the pod, would love to have Biden on the pod, like all things. We just want to have a great conversation here. We keep it respectful.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Sometimes it gets a little chippy, but we love each other and we love you, the audience, for participating in this. Don't fall for the mainstream media's nonsense in trying to divide and conquer. We got important tasks to do and problems to solve in the world. And the way we do that is through great conversations. Hopefully we set a tone an example for everybody else of just how to do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We still love each other, and sometimes some elbows get flown, and it's all good. Shamath, Sax, good luck tonight. Freeburg, happy birthday. Bye-bye. We'll see you all next time on the number one podcast in the world, the All In Podcast. Tell your friends about it. Love you, boys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, listen, thanks to our friends at 8sleep. Sax and I are both investors, and we both love the Pod4Ultra. It's an incredible company that we both backed, and they are supporting the all-in summit. And if you haven't used the Pod4Ultra or the blah, blah, blah, 8sleep, if you haven't used 8sleep, it's awesome. Go to 8sleep.com slash all-in and use the code all-in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You'll get some sort of a discount there. Sax, you love the company. You use the product, yeah?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Absolutely. It'll keep you cool. And if you're up all night because you have so much anxiety about Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, like Zach, and you can't sleep and you're doom-scrolling and tweeting all night, maybe this will help you go to bed finally, which I'm watching those tweets. You're staying up too late, Zach. Get some rest here. And use 8sleep to do it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And thanks to our friends over there, 8sleep.com. Code Olin. You get like a free Hyundai or something like that off the price. Really good deal. And we love the company. Okay, last year at the All In Summit, we had a wonderful talk by Jenny Just, and they have a very cool program called Power Poker. They're holding a 2024 summer bootcamp and tournament for women only.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So for the ladies out there, if you want to learn how to play poker, just like the besties and Jenny Just, you can join this four-week training class, get unlimited playing time, you play in a tournament. I'm going to come and play in one of the sessions. But here's the great part. We donated a ticket because we think it's worth encouraging women to join the poker community.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And so there's a $7,500 all-in summit 2024 ticket at stake. There's only 80 spots. Go ahead and join at pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp. pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp. It's going to fill up quick. I know a number of the women who work at my venture firm launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again, 80 spots.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think they charge a hundred bucks just to make sure you show up and there's an all-in summit ticket there for you. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all-in or just search all-in podcast. and hit the alert bell, and you'll get updates when we post. And we're going to do a party in Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for the All In Podcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash Freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. Okay, everybody follow sacks at x.com slash David sacks and check out sacks is slack killer glue at glue.ai. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher. Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc. All in podcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Go to Athena. Wow. FinaWow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy J-Cal. FinaWow.com. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Friedberg, your thoughts on this? You're friends with Vinod, as you mentioned, and you've always said to me and in our personal discussions that the reason you do this pod is because you really want to set an example of how to have great conversations and learn from each other and the tone of what we do here. So your thoughts on this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
MAGA just means make America great again, which I think everybody wants to make America great again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We are just waiting. People really don't want me to be friends with you guys. They want me to end my friendship with you, Chamath. They want me to end my friendship with you, Sax. And these are people who are mutuals, I just want to say. And I want to just tell them all equally to go f*** themselves here. You can bleep out the F word.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Like, I'm not picking my friends based on their political parties or their leanings or who they're supporting for president. The way I look at this, Sax, is at this point, we're all Americans. We're in this together. America survived Trump's presidency. America's going to survive Biden's presidency. The democratic process, it is very messy. Everybody gets to have a voice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And let's just pause for a second here and open up the aperture. Let's be thankful that everybody gets to have a say. Let's keep it from getting personal. Half the humans on this planet Earth do not have a voice. The one thing that's trending in the wrong direction globally is people living in a democracy. It's the one thing not getting better. We have a lot of work to do in this country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We have to respect each other, like we try to do here on this podcast. And we have to talk about the important issues. We all agree the budget's out of control. We all agree the education system sucks. We live in a multipolar world. We have to figure that out. when we should go to war, when we shouldn't, when we need to stay out of things. These are complicated issues.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And name calling in this presidency is not as important as tackling these issues together as Americans. I hope everybody can keep that in mind. So let's debate this. May the best candidate win. And then let's move on and let's solve some problems here. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I know I'm really hurt by this because I tell you personally, it's very hurtful to me because I value our friendships and they're picking on the wrong guy because you're the most loyal guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You can ask me if I do that. Don't tell me what I think, Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I actually care about people. Do you still care about what they think? The two of you bicker like brothers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
But I know I just have to retrain Sax that he can't tell me what I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, no, because you do that. You put words in my mouth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
No, here's the thing. I respect... All of my friends, and I like having a diversity of opinions. That makes life more interesting for me. And then to tell me I can't be friends with this person, that person, the way I grew up, my dad had a bar. Hells Angels, cops, firefighters, just everybody was allowed to come and hang out at the bar. We're here. We're having a discourse.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Everybody's welcome for a seat at the table.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All of them, the entire rainbow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Absolutely. DEIs over all this nonsense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
I have four pieces of advice for people. Number one, get good sleep. Number two, exercise. Number three, diet. Number four, meditation. And if you want to do that, it's very simple. You get the calm meditation app. You get the eight sleep sleep. You get the Fitbod for fitness.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
All of this is to say there's spending going on with the press that certainly doesn't look good and should be
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
verified and challenged obviously and we are in a breaking news environment so we'll see how that information shakes out over time which is one of the great things i think about doge is they're getting this information out there and citizen journalists are looking at public databases friedberg
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And we're having a conversation about this, a conversation two years ago, Friedberg, when you kept harping on every episode about our debt and about the interest payments two or three years ago. You were way ahead of the curve. And now here we are. We didn't think anybody would ever take this cause up. And now it is the cause of the moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
What are your thoughts on the first two weeks of Doge, Friedberg? Magnificent. Magnificent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And Antonio, zero-based budgeting was the first thing you sort of introduced when the Twitter takeover happened. Just what do we need in terms of design? What does the sales team need to hit these sales numbers? How many servers do we need? And my Lord, the waste, fraud, and abuse at that company was shocking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
They had buildings that were $100 a square foot, if I remember correctly, that were used for storage of the furniture from the previous building that had been upgraded and were storing them in class A office space. You referenced the commissary, 20 people were having lunch a day, but they had never ratcheted down the amount of food they were making.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So each meal was about $800 on average, when you did the math for those 20 meals just in the San Francisco office. Maybe you could talk a little bit about how the shock and awe campaign of just freezing spending and then seeing, hey, what actually is necessary to accomplish this task worked out at Twitter, and then how you see that being executed, you know, inside of our government.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
great bonus content from the team at All In. Today, we're super excited to have our friend Antonio Gracias joining the show. Antonio is the CEO of Valor Equity Partners, and he's made some He's made some solid investments. He was one of the first investors in Tesla, SpaceX, Athena, tons of great, or he's a second investor in Athena after me. Welcome to the program, Antonio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah, just threading these things together, you know, the really interesting thing with the Twitter pausing of payments was, you know, at some point we were in a meeting, you know, at 1 a.m. on a Saturday, and it was like, hey, let's turn the credit cards off to see what bounces and, you know, what happens. And then, of course, we start getting calls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And people started routing, obviously, because they knew Saks was there, you were there, I was there. Yeah. Hey, you know, a company who I shared an investor with, or, you know, in another company said, Hey, you know, we're not getting paid for this. And it was like some SAS software that nobody was using, etc.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So you start figuring out to your point, okay, is this software even being used, there was so much software and services that had been paid, that nobody had ever logged into set up. So, it was just being paid as pure graph.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Now, you said, Antonio, correctly, the people who come first, like, they're probably the ones who are in on the biggest grift because, hey, you know, I figured out how to grift this money. How USAID got to the top of the Doge list, I think, is one of the most interesting aspects of this story. So... If you remember, on January 21st, Trump decided he would do a bunch of executive orders, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And one of them was to pause foreign aid for 90 days. Okay, this seems reasonable. We got to take care of our country. That was part of his mandate for becoming the 47th president of the United States. So a couple of days later, the White House said, hey, this USAID leadership is trying to circumvent the executive order.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
In other words, they're just going to keep paying people even though the executive order came out. That alerted the Doge team. So Elon confirmed this on X. He said, quote, all Doge did was check to see which federal organizations were violating the president's executive orders the most. Turned out to be USAID, so that became our focus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And according to NBC, security officials at USAID tried to prevent Doge from even getting into the building or accessing the systems. To your point, Antonio, the person probably who's got the most to hide is the one who's going to fight the most. Over the weekend, Doge gained access to USAID. And then people started tweeting out all of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
you know crazy spend and things that any american who looks at it and says wait a second if we haven't fixed the goddamn water in flint michigan why are we sending money to galway or in ireland to do a dei musical this makes no sense and that's i think the key piece of this antonio is can you win the hearts and minds of americans
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Because some of this stuff, I don't know if it's legal or it's not legal or it's against protocol or it is protocol. We're going to find out. There's been tons of legal cases and lawsuits that have been filed. But to your point, this is how Elon found out about USAID.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Great, great question. You know, I've always felt that the West should act in unison, and if the United States is the greatest economy or the strongest, we should lead. There is something called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The United States, Eleanor Roosevelt wrote this at the UN, and everybody tries to hit those notes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
I think it's great that we try to reduce suffering in the world, but I think we should be doing it not unilaterally and not to try to manipulate governments. And that's the piece of this that USAID is obviously a grift where people are trying to steal money for their pet projects.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yes, yes. I did the series A, I believe, or the B. What did you do? We were in the B. You were in the B. Yes, you were in the Shervin round. Okay. Well, welcome to the program, Antonio Gracias. And we've got a full docket today. And we might even have a special caller from the White House today. No promises, but you never know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And I don't think they're acting in unison and above board to look and say, okay, where's the most suffering in the world? How can we help that? You know, that to me seems like a noble thing to do. And if the United States has the budget... to help fight AIDS in Africa or, you know, poverty.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Well, I do think, you know, I did this tweet recently, so yes is the answer. If you look at Amnesty International, Amnesty International, where I worked, was one of my first jobs. They were working on people who were imprisoned, tortured, raped, murdered, systematic murder of dissidents for freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, religion, etc.,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And then somewhere along the line, you know, the Amnesty International is tweeting about trans rights. And that's the big focus. This is a very small amount of, you know, people on the planet. And I don't think that those human rights violations in any way relate to the tragedy we're seeing of people being murdered, tortured, raped, and caned and beheaded in certain places in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So there is... a way to look at suffering and say, we should handle this first. And yes, somebody who, you know, feels they got misgendered, maybe that's way down the priority list compared to systematic rape of women in these, you know, war zones. Those would be the high order bits. And so this thing has...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
gotten, the other fascinating thing I think about USAID, which I'd like to get your thoughts on too, Chamath, is at what point did this switch from being the left saying we should not intervene, right? The left's position always in the 80s, 90s when we were growing up was we shouldn't be doing these operatives in other countries.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
We should let democracy flow, let these countries figure it out for themselves. We shouldn't be doing empire building. We shouldn't be doing imperialism. And then all of a sudden, now it's just such a grift that I think everybody's got their hands in the pie. Lindsey Graham's on some nonprofit that gets money from this. I don't know if that's above board or not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Everybody, a lot of people who are formerly in government seem to be part of this NGO train. So the whole thing's just turned out to be a grift and it's a bipartisan grift, obviously.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
We are 17 days into the Trump 2.0 presidency, and it seems like the main character, gentlemen, is Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency. And they seem to have found a little-known agency, USAID. Let's unpack it and talk about USAID and Doge, maybe in three acts. The first one Let me just educate the audience on what USAID is and then get y'all's general reaction to it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Oh, fantastic. And you're wearing a suit every day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah, crazy. So you did a big announcement this week on crypto. and creating a framework. Finally, I caught some of it. Maybe you could just tell us, you know, from the bottom up, what is the mandate from the president? And what is your advice to him on how to make crypto move out of the shadows offshore ICOs craziness to legitimacy? What's the plan here to legitimize and regulate crypto?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Most Americans probably haven't heard of USAID. It stands for the United States Agency for International Development. It was established by JFK by an executive order back in 1961. Wall Street Journal summed up its purpose as quote, make friends and influence countries in the American interest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
According to the US gov website, the purpose of USAID is to extend assistance to countries recovering from disaster got a budget of about $45 billion a year under Biden. And that's about 150 bucks per American per year. They have at least 10,000 employees or did And as of 2023, they had programs in 130 countries. Obviously, there's 195 countries in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And the budget doubled under Biden from 26 to 45. The budget was between 15 and 20 billion during Trump's first term. But the White House and I guess Elon and the Doge team found out about this USAID, went in there and found all kinds of interesting spend. $2.5 million to fund EV charging stations in Vietnam. $2 million for sex changes and LGBTQ activism in Guatemala.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
$1.5 million to a Serbian LGBTQ group. $70K for a DEI musical. $47K for a transgender opera in Colombia. The DEI musical, by the way, is in Ireland. So if you make it to Galway, you can see that DEI musical. This went on and on, and it has become quite a story. Antonio, you're our guest here this week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Well, and it's so dumb to come out against waste, fraud, and abuse. So the best argument the Democrats had, it seems, was that, oh my God, people's social security numbers or people's privacy was being violated because they went in and looked at the data and how the money was wasted. This is the height of not getting the point and not reading room.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
100% of Americans don't want their tax payments stolen. They don't care if you looked at their social security number. This isn't a privacy issue that Doge is looking at some database. And that's what AOC and Schumer were doing. Oh, my God, these people are looking at your social security number. They have access to your records. Who cares?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
What matters is how much money is being stolen from the American public. And anyone at any point in time could have picked up this issue. This has been going on. I think you pointed out the last time somebody really addressed this in earnest was Clinton. So this has been going on. Obama, Trump 1.0, Biden, everybody has been raising the debt. All of this grift has been going on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
It's only this time around that somebody picked up the free money and said, here's an issue. Now we see what happens when somebody picks up the issue of stop wasting money. It is a popular issue. This is only going to make Trump more popular.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So the Democratic Party is lost. They'll continue to be lost. Interesting thing came up this week. On Monday, President Trump signed an executive order laying out a plan to establish the first sovereign wealth fund for the United States. For those of you who don't know, a sovereign wealth fund is essentially an investment fund For a country, it's almost universally based on natural resources.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
You and I and Sax and Elon spent a little time at Twitter during the takeover, where I think a lot of these techniques were first put into action. Your thoughts on what's happening with Doge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So Norway, Saudi, UAE, they all have Australia sovereign wealth funds based upon minerals or typically oil. The United States is not known for having the oil reserves of the Saudis or UAE or Norway. This public investment fund would be apparently anchored by potentially the TikTok shares that Trump said he wanted to get half of by giving a license.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
A lot of that is unclear what this license would be. It's never existed. But this is the concept. The Treasury Secretary and Commerce Secretary have been tasked with developing a plan over the next 90 days. And the plan should include, quote, recommendations for funding mechanisms, investment strategies, fund structure, and a governance model. Chamath, you were tweeting about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
What is the point of having a sovereign wealth fund in the United States if we're $36 trillion in debt? Shouldn't we just pay down? Where is this money going to come from? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Antonio, you think the government should be in this business?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
What does it mean, industrial policy in this context? Example.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
They're literally building cities in Neom. They've got, you know, a dozen cities being constructed and trying to take an oil economy and shift it to a tourism economy, a technology economy, a private equity economy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Guys, I forgot to tell you about it, but don't worry. It's in an offshore account for all of us. When we get back to Ethiopia and Vietnam, we have an All In castle built there, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Freiburg, what do you think here? Is this something where we're making the government too big and now we've got the government competing with BlackRock and Sequoia and Andreessen Horowitz and they're going to be on the board of technology companies and energy companies and investing in it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And then what happens when, you know, Obama, Biden, Trump, Bush, you get different people running these things and then they want to do their pet projects. It seems to me like this could be get awfully conflicted, awfully quick. What do you think? Should this be a business our government's in?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
When the Silk Road got shut down, yeah, we seized 144,000 Bitcoin. And that's sitting somewhere in some Department of Justice account.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah. No, I think we still have it. I think that was the idea, was that it was going to become the Bitcoin Street Reserve. I mean, you could also come up with new taxes to fund this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
All right. So now we're going to have a real grudge match between the public.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So the government agency set up by the president can't look at the database of the treasury?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
I think we should just stop doing venture and just start NGOs. We just start a whole rat's nest of NGOs to ship money around.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah, absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
I mean, if I had known that- You would have had eight billion of AUM because of USAID. Just launch one in Vietnam and we could have, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
We could have had a, yeah, a launch accelerator in Vietnam for transgender, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
It is so crazy though, to come out and watching the Democrats, just the self-own of coming out and being like, we have to stop people from stopping wasteful spend. Like they just don't seem to understand how unpopular.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Well, and if you think about the transgender sports issue, Biological males playing in female sports leagues. That issue that Trump just did an EO yesterday for was such an obvious issue of fairness and has nothing to do with transgender. It just has to do with like biology. If a biological male...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
plays basketball on a biological female team, somebody's going to get hurt, and that person's going to score 100 points. It's just obvious. And the fact that the Democrats couldn't see that issue being 100% or 95% makes no sense. It's just such an obvious litmus test of logic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
We've got two people here who are immigrants.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Oh, okay. So they don't want to have the whole team be able to see what's at Treasury. They just have to have a process and some sign-off. Okay. That sounds not unreasonable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah, it does seem like it needs to be more than two, but it doesn't seem like they're saying you can't look at it. They just want to have some controls in place.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah. Hmm. Well, we're interpreting this in real time. The facts will come out over time. Let's wrap up on Google. Google dropped 7% after reporting earnings on Tuesday, Chamath. Revenue up 12% year over year to $96.5 billion. Wow. Cloud revenue is up 30% year over year, 12 billion. YouTube ads surging 14% to 10.5 billion. Net profit was around 26.5 billion, up 28% year over year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
So they are really focusing on profitability, obviously. Full year numbers, this is just extraordinary. Total revenue, 350 billion with 100 billion in net profit. cloud and YouTube finished 2024 with a combined run rate of $110 billion. YouTube is basically Netflix inside of inside of Google and their Google Cloud is essentially AWS inside of Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
The thing that made investors get concerned, Chamath, is that Google said it would invest $75 billion in CapEx in 2025, 42% jump over 2024, 29% more than analysts expect. Obviously, this has to do with data center servers and the AI build-out. What do you think about that number, $75 billion, obviously, in relation to what we saw last
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
with deep seek doing it with maybe a little bit less, maybe they're lying. Is this just an absolute waste of money or gargantuan number? Or is it something they can easily with that amount of profitability and cash they have absorb and use in the future?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah. We got there on, yeah, the Halloween weekend and we started whiteboarding and- You know, no ink.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Do you have thoughts on this build-out, Antonio? Obviously, I think you've been involved with XAI and obviously involved with Twitter and X previously and Colossus' colossal build-out that was extraordinary to watch in such a short period of time. Do you have concerns that, like some people do, that this build-out is too expensive and it would be too hard to monetize all that expense or...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Is it maybe a little bit of hand-wringing and the opportunity in AI is so obviously huge that you just got to take the leap of faith and if you build it, the revenue will come?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And Tony, I don't know if you've been watching the agent space or deep research that came out from Google and then closed AI, I mean, OpenAI launched their copycat version of this product. Sorry, I don't have short feelings on it. I'm curious your thoughts on job displacement. We're looking at self-driving. Obviously, Waymo's got cars on the road.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Obviously, Tesla, which you were previously on the board of. And I know you were the first institutional investor in Tesla. Self-driving is pretty good. I only get like one or two disengagements per hour. And they tend to be the ones where I just want to take the turn a little sharper kind of thing. So that's getting pretty close. BYD is very close. You got a lot of job displacement that occur.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Millions and millions of drivers in 10 years could lose their jobs. Researchers working at Gartner Group, whatever, Boston Consulting Group, like it feels like there could be massive job displacement. Do you have concerns about that in the American economy and globally?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Yeah, that's, I think, really strong thoughts. And I mean, that's the game we're seeing on the field. How many companies are we seeing hit a million dollars in revenue with five employees where that used to take 25? So the efficiency is there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Chamath, your outlook on this issue, since it seems to be coming up again, specifically with truck drivers and Uber drivers and all kinds of other research jobs that seem to be doing pretty well or can be done pretty well by AI. Where do you stand on this issue today?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Thank you. Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . in Laboratory a
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
This is the problem with generative AI. You can tell it's a fake photo.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Unbelievable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
I have four pieces of advice for people. Number one, get good sleep. Number two, exercise. Number three, diet. Number four, meditation. And if you want to do that, it's very simple. You get the calm meditation app. You get the eight sleep sleep. You get the FitBod for fitness. And then you get NutriSense for your diet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
USAID gave us $18 million last year. Guys, I forgot to tell you about it. But don't worry. It's in an offshore account for all of us. When we get back to Ethiopia and Vietnam, we have an All In castle built there. Okay? We built with our NGO.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
We'll see everybody next week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Thank you. Great job, Antonio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Okay. So Chamath, you've been watching this. You're from Antonio. What's your general take on what we saw in the first, I don't know, 20 days of Doge? Or no, 15 days, sorry, it's 15 days of doge.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Welcome back to the All In podcast. The number one MAGA, finance, business, and Personal optimization health. Yes, we are now larger in the health space than Huberman, Tim Ferriss, and Peter Attia combined. Yes, we've really started to grow the pod. And if you want to, you can subscribe to the podcast on x.com, YouTube, Spotify, and all those other places.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Okay. Yeah, let me just give some numbers to what you were referencing there. The USAID organization has been giving money, as have other agencies, to journals, databases, and subscriptions. There's probably some amount of that that makes sense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
However, when we look at this, during Trump 1, spend on Politico was averaging around $1.3 million a year, but it suddenly ballooned up to $8 million a year under Biden, and you can see the quarterly payments here on this chart. So there's some normal amount of spend on publications or for a library at an organization. And so what we're looking here is all federal agencies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
Especially if you want to have an incredibly positive world. enlightening conversation with Ray Dalio. You can tune in to Friedberg and Ray Dalio on the channel. Great conversation. It's gotten three or 400,000 views already on YouTube. How's the feedback been, Dave? Got so much great feedback on your Ray Dalio. Is it the end of the empire or are we coming back?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
And suddenly during Biden, there is a very suspicious ramp up in spend to Politico. All of this is breaking. A lot of this hasn't been verified yet. So we'll put that caveat on it. And then there is a number of 34 million that's been floating around. That's all years back to 2008, not just 2024, lest people have that number juxtaposed or misattributed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
When political was acquired back in 2021, they were doing about $200 million in revenue. So this would be about 4% of their revenue. It's pretty significant. The BBC also received $2.7 million in funding from USAID in 2023. That was 8% of their annual income. That's a little suspicious. Thomson Reuters... which is the consulting arm of Reuters.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE vs USAID, Crypto Framework, Google's $75B AI Spend, US Sovereign Wealth Fund, GLP-1s
They've received $120 million from the federal government since 2011. That's got to be looked at and double-clicked on. And half of that came during the Biden administration. New York Times. hasn't actually received all that much 370k from the federal government last year. Under Biden, it went from 100k a year to like 300. So the New York Times data has been cleaned up a little bit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Hold on, guys. I got to get into founder mode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Let's start the show. You are founder moding. J. Cal, if you founder mode anymore, you're going to get pneumonia. All right, Sax is like the 90s again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Hold on, let me find out. That's Founder Mode, baby, let's go. Let's double burn.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
This is the funniest cold opening we've ever done. Sorry. Oh, my God. I got Belgian waffle mix everywhere. It's right here, Jacob. You got a bunch of founder mode right there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Why should she be any different?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Oh, I can't wait for this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
What?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You need a detox.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yes. Since you want to go into Russia, here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And as predicted. We're 50 days before the election, and who shows up? Putin. This is the greatest story ever. For those of you listening, Sax just rolled his eyes. It's so funny. This is just great. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Here we are. And by the way, there's breaking news. More Russia stuff has dropped while we're on the pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I think, yeah. Yes. And you should do another 30 tweets a day about you, Craig. We'll see you all next time, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
All right, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
When she joined Google in 2001, it had $20 million in revenue. They were private. And when she left in 2008, they had $22 billion in revenue. When she joined Facebook in 2008, it was at $270 million in revenue. When she left, it was at $117 billion. Market caps of those two companies have grown $100 billion and $950 billion during her tenures.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And today, both are worth over $3 trillion combined and are the number four and number seven market cap companies in the world. However, to our crew, she will always be Bestie Dave Goldberg's dream girl, as he once described it to me. He told me he pursued her relentlessly until she finally gave in, dated, and then married him and started a beautiful family together.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Dave Goldberg passed away nine years ago this week in 2015. in an alternate universe on a different timeline goldie would have been one of the four people on this panel because he was the most wise funny super mensch of the entire 10 person core poker group the original poker group in fact he was twice the man of any of us which given the low benchmark we've set isn't that difficult
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We can get at least three shows worth of wisdom from our current guest, but that's not why she's joining us today. She made a documentary, and we're here to talk about that. And we'll have some time for business talk at the end, which is going to be a very hard pivot given the nature of the doc. The doc she co-produced is called Screams Before Silence. I watched it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
On the flight back from New York, I had to take three breaks, and it took a lot of tissues, if I'm being honest. It is one of the most difficult hours of viewing I've ever had in my life. It is focused on the sexual violence committed by Hamas during and after the October 7th attacks, and which, tragically, in all likelihood continues today with the hostages who are still somewhere in Gaza.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, I mean, you said it earlier, Cheryl, this tolerance for ambiguity, this ability, the cognitive dissonance to be able to hold in your head that the people of Gaza are suffering. Perhaps, I guess the other side would say, you know, they would start down this whataboutism. It's not my position, but what about what Netanyahu is doing? What about aid to people suffering in Gaza?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
You've addressed that. You don't believe anybody should suffer. But I just want to talk a little bit about this conspiracy theory that it didn't happen. Also in the documentary, the savagery You chose not to show the graphic photos that you saw and that you're clearly traumatized by. And a lot of us New Yorkers had a similar experience with 9-11 and watching that up close.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is what terrorists do. Terrorists do these things to cause massive trauma, to make it impossible to deescalate. That is the sadism, that is the pure evil of this brand of terrorism. is to make it impossible for the good people of the world to unwind or deescalate. And I think part of the process is accepting what happened and coming to some truth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And the truth can be there are people dying unnecessarily in Gaza. There are people starving in Gaza. There are children who are not getting food and water. All of those can be true. And this horrific sexual sadism and violence that occurred is also true. And that was awesome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
No, I mean, I'm trying to make sense of this. And I come to it with humility. This podcast hits certain notes with people and, oh, how can people in Silicon Valley or whatever discuss these topics? Listen, we're all discussing them. We're all trying to make sense of a very confusing world. But you made two choices in the documentary. One was to leave yourself out of it largely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Your role in the documentary is, you know, to hug people and to cry alongside them and to witness this stuff. You talked for, I think, 90 seconds in the whole documentary. I think this was an important decision you made. And then you made a decision, which I'm not sure if I agree with, which is to not show the photos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I am of the belief that people should see what happened on 9-11 as a New Yorker who witnessed it and my brothers in the fire department. And I had PTSD from it. I think people have to see these things. You chose not to out of respect for the family. You should put a note at the end. Explain this choice because I know you must have struggled with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And there are photos that you've seen of women with their breasts cut off. I don't want to say these things. I know it's very traumatic. But I believe people have to understand what's in these photos that you saw.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
nails in women's private parts breasts that have been cut off this is undeniable if you want to deny the rapes happened or whatever you cannot deny the photos that you saw he chose not to put them in i understand that decision respect for the family is there not a take us into that decision because maybe there's a maybe you need to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And the woman who chose to do the interview with you, she's so brave. She said, I had to do this because I wanted to combat the denialism. And I don't know who the gray zone is. And I don't know why people are giving it a ton of attention, but they are considered, the first line of the Wikipedia page is it's a fringe website. So just leave it at that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I don't know if it is or if it isn't, but that's the first line of the Wikipedia page. Is there not a case to be made for making a second version of the documentary that shows exactly these things so people can stop denying it? Because then you would have to come to the place that the people who are one-sided created fake images.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Is that what we're getting to in this conspiracy-filled world, that the dozens of people you interviewed are part of a grand conspiracy and the photos are doctored? So just talk about that decision. You must have had an important meeting about that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
The documentary also takes on claims in our polluted, journalistic, conspiracy-filled media landscape that claim none of this happens. She traveled to Israel to conduct interviews for it, and outside of comforting the victim, she spends less than 90 seconds speaking in it herself. The stories, of course, speak for themselves.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Now, this isn't a disclaimer, but some context about this podcast for those of you who are here for the first time might be helpful. We realize we're wading into a conflict that is thousands of years old, and it's shrouded in pain and suffering with a foundation on the most deeply held religious beliefs humanity has ever formed. When we do podcasts like this and have guests
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We'll be championed by one side and derided by the other. But as you know, we don't shy away from the hard discussions on this podcast. We go all in on them. Equal time will always be given, and we welcome all sides on these difficult discussions. It goes without saying that we're not here to be your expert or final authority.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, they said themselves, Chamath, it was a platform for whatever your grievance was. That was their stated mission, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We're here to have a first principle discussion and to personally learn alongside each other in good faith. In good faith. This is a really important concept because it's hard to have these discussions in good faith today. So with that, a welcome to the All In podcast, our bestie, Sheryl Sandberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
But yeah, that's exactly where I wanted to go with the journal, which is if you steal a man, if you look at their perspective, and you look at the beauty of feminism and femininity, and you wrote a book, Lean In, and you are an expert on this, and having compassion for people who are suffering is absolutely beautiful.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is the best of humanity, and I think it's the best of femininity and women, is that they have this incredible gift of empathy that, as men, maybe we are so far behind. And so it does not surprise me that women lead these organizations when they see suffering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And if you see children suffering, women are in a unique position in their life experience to understand the value of children, of family, and of suffering. And You know, I can understand an impressionable young person seeing the videos coming out of Gaza of a baby dying in a bombing and collateral damage and being devastated and saying, you know what, I have to fight for these poor children.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is completely noble in their mind. In fact, it might be noble, I mean, to fight for peace. And so... you know, I can understand their positions, and I don't actually disagree with them. But then you start looking at the reality of getting the hostages back. And if this was an American situation, and we actually have a corollary, 9-11, we didn't go to Afghanistan to get hostages.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We went there to get retribution. So if America went there to eliminate this threat. And we also took out another country just for good measure that wasn't even involved in it. You know, it's such a complex issue and we're in the fog of war. I think everybody pausing for a second here and just remember how confusing it was after 9-11, how confusing it was.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And we had to figure out, wait a second, these were Saudis. These were this radical group, the splinter group. It takes a while to figure out what's going on here. And I do think on these campuses, they should allow them to protest, but there's outside agitators.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
That seems to me to be completely unacceptable, to have 40, 50, six-year-old lifetime agitators on these campuses allow these kids to protest, but to chase Jewish kids around the campus and then surround them and threaten them in 2024? I mean, I can't understand what's happening and how...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
How could an administration, Cheryl, allow students to threaten other students and not immediately snap a snap decision?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is a decision. Absolutely expelled. If a set of Jewish students surrounded a Palestinian student, an Islamic student, a Muslim, and chanted at them about what happened to October 7th and made them feel threatened, expel them as well. There's just some basic...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
basic rules of the game they're not enforcing it's absolutely infuriating but i just want to make sure i steal them that other side and you did you know i think very eloquently say you also agree with the suffering in palestine needs to end i know we're out of time can i say one thing i really want to say ten things cheryl as much as you like you have time i really want to thank you all for this because two things happened in the last hour with you
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
You know, at the end of the day, Chamath, we're family and you're friends.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I think about Dave frequently. And I just think at the end of your life, what you have, is but a collection of memories. And the memories we have with Dave, the laughter, the joy, the- Fake Chamath. Fake Chamath, yeah. His wit, his insights, you know, we would be sitting at that poker table and it was like, we're all like 15, 16 year olds and we got this big brother who's 20
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And we'd be bickering and laughing, whatever. He'd come in and say, hey, guys, how about this and this? So Chamath and I would be jawing at each other. He'd say, hey, guys, let's calm it down a little bit. Thank you guys. And let's have a good time, whatever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We didn't get to talk about anything business. Come to the summit. I beg you to come back to the, either come to the summit and be one. Are you one or short in video? We just need to know. It's a hard pivot to this. It's true.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
If you were to change any paragraph of the Lean In book, what would you do? We'll save all this for this time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Thank you very much. Wow. I need to take a deep breath here, Chamath Freeberg. This was super emotional for me. I didn't know if I could do it, I'll be honest. I have so many emotions, Chamath, about Dave. I have so many feelings about this situation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Absolutely, absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, trust me, there's a lot of people who would love to have the fake show mouth handled.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I mean, it's well said, Chamath. And, you know, the response, I can tell you to, you know, this, this episode, and the response I got for just tweeting, you know, hey, this is important documentary to watch is, you know, the what about it, about ism, the other side, and documenting what's happening in Gaza.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And, you know, we have this search for truth right now, which is very difficult, because institutions have a lot of self-inflicted wounds we live in an age of conspiracy theory you know and and there are reports of crisis actors you know in gaza creating fake deaths and fake videos so you know now you have one side saying oh
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
the people of Palestine or Hamas are, the numbers aren't correct of the number of people died. The suffering's not correct. These images aren't correct. The fog of war is gonna be thick for a while here, folks. And it's gonna take us a while. And Shabbat's exactly right. You gotta document this. You gotta get to some ground truth. You gotta get to some common facts
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
So we can all objectively look at those common facts. And, you know, listen, it's a shame David Sachs couldn't make it today, but it's really missed here because, you know, we have that same thing with the war in Ukraine. And it's very hard for... Us in this current media landscape where we're quoting from news sources and anonymous Twitter accounts, fake videos, it's going to get worse with AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It's going to be harder and harder to find the truth. And this is where your own personal morality, ethics, and I'm not sure who brought this up during our talk because I'm emotionally spent. I got to be honest. It's a little hard for me to collect myself here. But man, you have to have some basic moral principles here. children, women, rape, sexual assault, we all can agree on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
You said this the week after October 7th, Freeberg, you had a very powerful moment on the show, that you don't want to have to decide between October 7th being horrific and children dying in Gaza being horrific. And you don't want to have to be painted with one side or the other. You want to believe as a moral person that all suffering needs to end. And we collectively, as a species,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
in 2024 on this planet can work together to just agree that certain things should never happen and to try to resolve these horrible conflicts. I'm so spent right now. And it was just very difficult for me to watch that documentary. I don't know where we go from here, gentlemen. I'm fine ending the show here or taking a 10-minute break and then maybe doing one or two new stories.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
All right, everybody. Welcome back to the program. Yep. It's not easy to do a pivot here, but we collected ourselves, took a deep breath, and you've all been asking for a science corner. And so there's a really important story that Freebird has been educating us about on the group chat. There's a startup that just open sourced an AI gene editor. Yes, you heard that right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Open source gene editor powered by AI. It's called Profluent Bio. Am I correct? Profluent Bio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I think we have mentioned it. It would be good as a primer for you to just explain from first principles what is CRISPR, why it's important, and then get into this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
So let's step back for a second for a break. Explain what CRISPR is to somebody who's heard the term but doesn't actually know in your unique ability to explain science. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Be able to- Yeah, this is happening, I guess, in the psychedelic space with psilocybin, MDMA, and some of those.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
No, no, I'm just saying there are drug companies now that are realizing the efficacy at Johns Hopkins, Stanford, where they're doing these. And then they're trying to figure out how do we take something that's occurring naturally, psilocybin in mushrooms, referred to colloquially as magic mushrooms. And then how do we bear hug this so that we can patent it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
How can we own the implementation of it, as you're saying? And so it's fascinating to me taking nature and trying to patent nature. Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Yeah. You know, we might know somebody at Twitter who can reset the password.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Okay, two questions for my baby brother with the with the science brain. Number one, the LLMs here. How? Maybe you speak to the efficacy of LLMs when applied to this vertical? because it's a constrained data set, I believe, so it feels to me analogous to code, whereas human language, images, videos, building an LLM around them, you have a pretty large corpus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It seems to me code is constrained, a video game is constrained, and of course... maybe maybe gene editing is constrained. I'll let you answer that and the LLM component here. And then maybe you could speak to what this will do to the startup community, being able to leverage this open source tool. Have startups started to pop up around this yet?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Is there a.org.com kind of equivalent here where you have WordPress.org, open source version of WordPress, WordPress.com, the hosted paid version? And are we going to see a bunch of.com versions of this and different startups? Take it whichever way you like the two questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Okay, so it's a blocker for humanity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Oh, of course, yeah. It was a huge blocker, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, yeah, and then you could get rug pulled, right? They could change their mind.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
ActiveX, Microsoft did ActiveX to try to be a blocker and own the open source web community.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Tell me about the LLM side here, the large language model being built around this data. What's the efficacy of that going to be like? And is my analogy of a constrained data set, meaning it will be able to perform at a higher level like we see with code and then co-pilots for code?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Okay. Amazing job. If you missed any of those graphics, you're listening to the podcast, go to YouTube and search for All In Podcast if you want to see those graphics. All right, gentlemen, this has been another amazing episode of the All In Podcast for your Sultan of Science, David Freberg, the Chairman Dictator, and David Sachs, who couldn't make it today. I am the world's greatest moderator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Rest in power. Dave Goldberg. Goldie. We love you. We miss you. And we'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast. Love you, boys. All the best to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Field day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Bye-bye. We'll let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Rain Man, David Sack. And instead, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Wesley. I'm the queen of...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We need to get merchandise.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I mean, it's one of the great things about... The great challenge, I remember... workshopping some tweets here with Dave, with Goldie. And the big laugh we would have, and David Lee from the Warriors was involved in this. I mean, we just had like a whole group who lived to write these tweets. And sometimes Chamath's tweets were so insane and deranged that we couldn't top them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
So we tried to come up like this one from fake Chamath. Pinterest is the new hot company. This is a great one. Pinterest is a new hot company in the Valley. I don't understand why a site for girls with catches for 300 million.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Of all the people who've suffered spending time with Chamath, you're at the top of that list.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Here's a great one from October 29th, 2011. A lot of demand for me to appear in commercials like others, but I am holding out for Cartier. Mercedes is beneath me. I mean, this predated all Laura Piana. Laura Piana, yeah. Freeboy, you got this next one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Who was ahead of the time on Laura Piana at that time? Very good. I mean, it's just incredible. People think the Laura Piana thing is like recent history. It was 12 years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It's going to get pretty popular and I will just say As much as Dave loved being fake Chamath, it's like half the amount Chamath loves being at Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Oh my God, I haven't cried and laughed so hard in five minutes as I did just now. I mean, actually, in some ways, Cheryl... You're our fifth bestie as well. You're always welcome to come on the pod. And I just also for a little bit of housekeeping here, when guests come on this podcast, we don't pre-vet questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
No questions are off limits and nobody gets to strike or do anything nonsensical with the product. Everybody comes here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We're not journalists.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Right. Which means no gotcha journalism. Although I'll ask a tough question once in a while that. may get me in a little bit of trouble. But David Freberg, you set this all up. And I know you and Cheryl have been talking about these important issues. And of course, we're going to have all sides on. So you don't have to email me and say, what about this side? What about that side?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
All sides are welcome to come on the pod. But Freberg, why don't you kick us off here? We're going to talk about this important film and a lot of the debates going on about this horrific attack on October 7th and then what's going on in Gaza today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
But then we also are going to try to make that hard pivot to business and get some of Cheryl's insights on what's happening in the world today of business. So, Freeberg, why don't you kick us off?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Rain Man, David Sasson. All right, welcome back to the program, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
One of the guests we've always dreamed about having on the show is considered one of the great business operators of all time in Silicon Valley. For the past 20 years, Sheryl Sandberg was a key, some might say the key, piece in building the two largest advertising and technology companies in the world, Google and Facebook. paradoxically, they don't go by those names anymore, Alphabet and Meta.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Hello, sister. How are you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
I think that from now until the end of time, with
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
Totally.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
Qatar was involved.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
And this is just, you know, an example, yet another example that there's not a lot of equity value in these businesses.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Why wouldn't a child wait till they're 18, 19, 20 years old? So those were kind of the issues that pushed me out of the Democratic Party. And, you know, with Trump and some of the things he does, I don't agree with.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
But when he put his agenda out for this term, with the exception, again, we talked about it before, of taking hardworking, non-criminal immigrants out of the country, which I think would cause massive inflation and all kinds of problems for us, and it would be cruel and inhumane. I'm down with less government. I've always been for less government.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I've always been for balancing the budget as an individual, as a company, or as a country. And so when he decided he would bring... You know, Elon, who's a close personal friend of mine and Sachs, close personal friend of mine and other folks in our circle into this administration to do hard work and important work around supporting entrepreneurs and stopping waste, fraud and abuse.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
What was the question?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah. I think you're conflating a lot of different issues in a very partisan way to get ratings. That's bullshit. Don't question my motives.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I mean, that's kind of my wheelhouse. So if Trump's going to evolve and he's going to stop being Captain Chaos and he's going to stop putting people like Bannon around him and he's going to put incredible entrepreneurs and the smartest people I know around him. I have no choice but to support him.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I don't like some of the things he does stylistically, but I don't really care about style points when it comes to the fact that I believe the country is on such an unsustainable path in terms of spending, $36 trillion in debt, adding a trillion or two. And the amount of waste and fraud that's going to come out of Doge. I mean, I've had conversations with Elon. He's been very public about it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
He had a he had a presser with Trump in the in the Oval Office. The stuff that's going to come out is going to be mind boggling. The amount of grift, the amount of criminal behavior and obviously wasted and waste is is just so staggering. And we have to turn this around, Megan. If we don't get this debt under control, it's existential. They have the saying, how did you go bankrupt?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Slowly and then all at once. And that's where our country is. We need to stop the waste, fraud, abuse, and spending, and it's going to take collective austerity, but we have no choice. And it's going to take really bold leadership. It's unpopular to cut services. It's unpopular to stop spending. But Trump's on a free roll right now. He is, by definition, lame duck, right? He's not running again.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
So I'm here for it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You asked me what I think. That's what I said. That's what I think. I'm giving you my honest analysis.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah, so... This is exactly correct, Megan. You have two ways to cut this massive deficit we have every year and the national debt. You can either increase the amount of money coming in through taxes or you can cut spending. And you've nailed it. There are some big ticket items and Medicare, Social Security and, of course, military spending are the big three. We haven't gotten to those yet.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
But I think that there will be. a moment in time when it will become tenable to talk about these and, you know, maybe just on the margins, rethinking them. If you look at the last 10 years, when Biden came into office, you know, we're at 16, 17 trillion in debt. Now we've basically doubled it. Both parties are out of control with their spending and they've added two trillion a year.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
It's not sustainable. Everybody knows that it's about to break. And so it's going to take collective across both sides of the aisle looking at, not just Doge, but military spending. And this is where actually Trump does have a superpower. He's very good at talking to Xi Jinping and Putin and other dictators. You can make whatever joke you want to make there about how they vibe.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
But what he did with North Korea and going and talking to Kim Jong-un was just spectacular. This idea that you don't talk to dictators is a huge, colossal mistake in foreign policy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And if he can get everybody to start rethinking how much we're spending globally on defense and maybe paring that back a little bit, and then we can talk to Americans about maybe instead of Social Security doing what they do in Australia, which is called superannuation, or they just refer to it as supers in that country if you've ever been there.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
instead of giving your money to the government and then the government giving it back to you when you retire, you're forced to put a little bit of money, 10, 12% every year into essentially a directed 401k, but public equities. And if we started moving the country to that, then we could be like Australia eventually where the government's not in the business of providing retirement funds.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You do that, you're forced to put money into the markets And then you get the money back as opposed to the government, which is really not great at capital allocation.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I mean, 10% less would be mind-blowing. 50% would be incredible. 50% is like, but I love the way he negotiates. I mean, that is his best quality.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
They have systematic problems there, Megan. They've got serious problems.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
We look at the five cases, you know, six months from now, a year from now. Let's assume all five of them go to trial. He's guilty of three so far.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
This is a big omission, Megan, because I don't know if you've ever seen Chamath's thirst trap that he posted on social media, but he has very thin legs. His legs are not capable of carrying. He would not be a great firefighter. Megan, he can't carry anybody.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
The military issue really is that what's going to happen on the... And on future military excursions, we're going to have to go on. We're going to look like the Ukraine. We're going to look like Ukraine. Sorry to put the thought in there. You are going to have drones. And there's a good friend of mine, Palmer Lucky, has a company called Andrel that's doing particularly well in this regard.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
There's another one, Vanton Systems, V-A-T-N. I'm not an investor or anything, but I had them on my podcast. And they were showing me their underwater drones. You can cut in a video of it. It's really cool, Vanton Systems. They are producing these underwater drones for 75%, 85% less than what the military spends now. This is exactly what Elon did for putting people in space.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Okay, but there's a big difference. Yeah, and the Trump organization, they're guilty there. Again, was civil, liable. Yes, of course. But these are the cases we're talking about. And in the third one... You know she's a lawyer, right?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And he lowered the cost by 90%. Those opportunities exist. And so if we can reimagine the military, we could have more capability. We could be more competitive. And we can do it at literally 50%, 60%, 70% less. If we unleash innovation and entrepreneurship, and this is the thing that pushed me out of the Democratic Party, back to the original question you had for me. We have to support founders.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
It is very hard to start a company. You suffer. You're doing it now, right? You got to exist in Fox and NBC and take the Lincoln Town Cars and have all this stuff. Now you're an entrepreneur, right? You got to be scrappy and you got to fight. The Democratic Party abandoned and shamed entrepreneurs, and they're still doing it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are out there every day attacking Elon. We're doing something he doesn't need to do right now. He's already incredibly wealthy. He's got Tesla. He's got SpaceX to work on. And he's taking a side quest for the American people. Four, five, six months. He's moving into the government. This is costing him billions.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I'm not walking it back. There's three in which he was... You should walk it back.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
There's a lot of scrappy people, Megan, working on this. I read a story in the Wall Street Journal about some University of Toronto students who made a dish that uses acoustics to interfere with the components specifically of DJI drones. It's called Prantle Dynamics, P-R-A-N-D-T-L Dynamics. So I had them on my podcast.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I talked to them a whole bunch about how the technology works, and they were just students.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Terrible name. Anyway, point is— P-R-A-N-D-T-L. You can just talk. Basically, they knock drones out of the sky. So I talked to them. I check out the technology. It actually works. So I actually gave them the angel investing money to start this company. Jason, tell them to call it Drone Strike. Drone Strike.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
That'll be the new name. Yeah. So there's all this technology that is coming out. And, you know, venture capitalist, Megan, it was very interesting when I when I started, I don't know, I started angel investing 12, 13 years ago. It's just a side thing to support my friends. And at that time, venture capitalists wouldn't invest in military technology.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And in fact, at Google, the kind of resistance inside of Google was protesting them even providing things like Google Docs, like Gmail to the military. And now that's totally turned around. Silicon Valley is enamored. And investors like myself, Chamath and others, Sachs too, we're looking and saying, hey, this is actually the patriotic thing to do.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
On Trump 2.0- By the way, sorry, just on that, let me tell you a quick story.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Let's take a look. Let's look at this. The top looks great. Zoom in on those legs. Zoom in on those legs. Guys, guys, guys. He's not... Guys, I'm six foot two. Megan, I know how big you are. Megan, you're... He's not going to be able... She appreciates it. You wouldn't be able to carry Megan out of a burning building. Bro, of course I could. Let me tell you something.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
That lesbian fire chief in SoCal, she would do a better job. Stop. Look at those legs.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Diminishing you. You know, that's what's really happening here is I think independent. It's very rare for somebody to come out of the Fox office. world and be able to actually start a business. I've been in publishing my whole life and really publishing is three things. You got to have talent, which you clearly have. You have to have distribution, which has now been democratized.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You just give an RSS feed to Spotify and to Apple and you're good to go. And then you need to have ad sales. I'm actually shocked that you haven't brought that in house yet because there's a hundred ad salespeople who will send their resume to you right now. And your cost of ad sales should be 10% or lower if you had an in-house team based on my knowledge of what you're doing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Well, the rep firms tend to take 25% to 40%. And that's fine to start out. But for you to be a truly independent media company, you need to control that piece of the puzzle. And you can very easily. And you will. I guarantee you by next year. And I make millions of dollars a year off this week in startups. All in doesn't have advertising.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
We probably leave $25, $50 million on the table every year because my co-hosts refuse to let me read the ads. I keep asking them, let me read the ads. You know why, Megan? Private aviation. Why? Private aviation. I could be in a Phenom 300. I could be in a Pilatus PC-24 if Chud Moth would let me read one goddamn ad on the show.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And this is what is making me crazy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
But we make our money. through the events we host. And that's a great business. And you were there. Thank you for coming.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And our new tequila. And we're going to do all in tequila. And, you know, I got to spend some time with Ben Shapiro when I went to the inauguration, who I have great respect for and his team and what he's built as a business. Are you going to make a point? Are you trying to make a point? I am. And, you know, the other thing that's very interesting is what he's doing with cigars, razors, etc.,
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah. They made their own brands. I think Megyn Kelly, you need, I don't know what you drink. You drink a Sauvignon Blanc. What do you, what is Megyn Kelly drink on the weekend? What's going on tonight on a Friday night?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Oh, a little G&T? Yeah. You G&T? Yeah.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
All right, listen. MK's Gin Haven. Right now, let's get a gin company on here. You brand it. You put it in cans, bottles, whatever. It's going to make a billion dollars. Let's get Megyn Kelly paid. That's what I'm talking about. We're doing all in. I love where this is going. Allin.com.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
They hate you because they ain't you, Megan. That's it. They hate you because they ain't you. Well, I didn't want people to be confused.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
This is about control. You and Tucker, supremely talented. They controlled you because they gave you these giant multi-year deals. You guys were at the top of your game. Eight-figure deals is extraordinary. You guys top-ticked it, as we say in the business. You hit the peak. And it's scary to be talent and then start from zero again. But you did it. And now you control it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And now Tucker controls it. But you can see their top-down control ruins the editorial. You can see it in that Dominion case that Fox had to settle. It matters. Yeah. And they start messing with you and They try to steer you in one direction or the other. The audience gets it. The audience understands it now.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Can I make a prediction? Just three legs of the stool, Megan. You have two of them and you got half of one. You got to make that last leg of the stool very strong. I agree with that. Chamath and I, we brainstormed and we built this infrastructure inside of All In so that we never have to bend the knee and we have the FU money and the FU platform.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Oh, thanks for having us, Megan. Look at this walk through memory lane and you inviting me on Valentine's Day. Stop. It's too much. Stop. I mean, it's so great to be here. Well, the good news is, you know, you said we were 27. Now we're top 10 right up there with you, Megan, right up there in the top 10 of the ratings with you. And, you know, I think that Trump, just to get right to it,
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
The most important thing in media, and I told this to my squad on All In when I was, you know, in the early days, it was just hard to get these guys to show up every week. And I just sat them all down and I said, guys, The number one way to be successful in media is to show up every day. Consistency. And that's what you have. You are a juggernaut. You show up every day. You're consistent.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And I subscribe to you. Congratulations on breaking 3 million. That's extraordinary in a short period of time. Thank you. consistency is the key. And when we started out, you know, some, you know, Freebird can't make this day, Chamath can't make this day, whatever. Now, nobody misses. Every Thursday, it's locked in. Nobody misses. Whether I'm in Japan skiing or Chamath's in Italy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You might say you're all in. We're all in. And that's the way to do it. And hey, when are we going to get this Megyn Kelly con? That's what you need to do. MK con with the GMTs. Sell a thousand tickets. Get all your fans there. I would come to MK con.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You know, great respect for you as a broadcaster, obviously. And I love having challenging conversations. The Trump lawfare one was a great one. And I think, you know, if we look at Trump 2.0 versus Trump 1.0, it's pretty clear he's put a different group of people around him. And you evoke the name Steve Bannon, you know, like comparing the team he has now to that team.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Do you know why it's so contentious, Megan? Because there's so little at stake. There's so little at stake in this Blake Lively thing. What do you mean? There's just like, who cares? There's just a bunch of like, you know, Hollywood people fighting.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
It's so interesting. I guess so. The PR stuff.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I love my Jaders. My Jaders make me greater. I love them. That's Raiders, the Jaders. I love it. You branded the people that- Oh, absolutely. I mean, how do you think I have so many followers? All these people who hate me, they all follow me. That's the thing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You know, David, it's so funny. I was never into politics. David inserted politics into the All In podcast because it's his passion. And I've actually enjoyed, you know, sparring with him over it, refining my positions on it. It's made me think about it. in a much deeper way because I just never liked it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And, you know, we have these like grand debates on Putin and Ukraine and, you know, who's who's that?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
those guys were kind of losers, I'll be totally honest, and xenophobic. And I don't agree with a lot of the Trump 1.0 agenda. But if the Trump 2.0 agenda is let's have less government, balance the budget, free speech, and stop wars, I'm here for it. So Trump has evolved massively. His positions are completely different this time around. And I always want to support the president, whoever wins.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
This is the key point. Right?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
But here's the thing. Biden, and I brought this up countless times with Sachs, and we had this very vibrant debate on it where I said, listen, this is a loan lease. They are buying these weapons on loan, and they have to pay it back. And Sachs was like, to his credit, that's never going to happen. Biden's never going to ask for the money back. It's going to be a donation. We all know that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You know, Trump comes in. He cares about money. He cares about the balance sheet. He knows we have issues around our solvency. And he said, you know what? I want the money back. It's a loan lease, which is what we did during World War II. And Ukraine is going to pay every dollar back. If Ukraine pays every dollar back. We do a 10, 20 year, you know, Ukraine can't join NATO for 10 years.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
No big deal. We can outlast Putin. And that's the thing you have to realize about these dictators. You know, they have a certain lifespan. They typically implode. They cause their own problems, as Putin and Xi and North Korea have done. The best thing is to contain them. And you know who's great at containing them and managing them? Trump. They respect him. He's a strong man. He's crazy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I'm not a partisan guy. I'm actually an independent. I voted Republican about a third of the time in my life, and Democratic two-thirds. And so I am a big fan of supporting our president, whoever it is, as best you can, and then assessing what they're actually doing. I don't think we should deport 20 million people. I do think we should deport the 500,000 who are like hardened criminals.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
He's Captain Chaos. He saber rattles. He threatens them. They respect him. And they're a little scared of him, I think. And if he gets all that money back from Ukraine, we will have protected democracy. We will have contained Putin. And, you know, all's well that ends well. So I really hope and I actually think Trump's going to pull it off. And I would give him a lot of credit when he does.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And so there's nuance to all these issues. And I'm really excited to be here, especially with Chamath, to discuss the nuance in a lot of these positions. Megan, I just dropped my kids off.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And it's even worse than that, Chamath, if you think about the fact that they're not content to just have this regulation impact their citizens and to make unbelievably stupid decisions, like the Germans turning off three of their
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
uh remaining nuclear reactors and then building a pipeline from a dictator to buy oil directly from russia the french figured it out they were 90 at the peak nuclear now they're about 60 and about 20 renewables they're totally energy independent The European Union wants to regulate American companies. We have companies like Adobe wanted to buy a tiny company called Figma for $10, $20 billion.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You know who stopped it? It was the Europeans. It was the UK. It was the UK. So yeah, they're going after our companies and what we're doing. My advice to those companies were, you know what? If you're Adobe or Figma, stop selling your product in the UK. Block the UK. It's a meaningless market.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
They're so deranged with the regulations, they want to have them apply to the rest of the world and to Tremont's point.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah. You know, I think the xenophobic people I disagree with a ton when I see Steve Miller says stuff like America is for Americans and Americans only. I think that kind of rhetoric, you know, he's running policy for Trump now. I do. I do. Yeah. He's he's the one I disagree with. And I know Steve. His big thing is the border.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I don't know where America, you know, or how we got onto this, like, weird side quest that we had to police speech when I grew up. UCLA was out there saying, we're going to let the Ku Klux Klan march down, you know, Main Street because that's better to defend uncomfortable speech than lose freedom of speech. It's a reason why we put it as number one. Across party lines, we believe that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
100 percent. That was a Democratic position, in fact. And by the way, the border, it was the Republicans position. But 15, 20 years ago that we should have an open border because they wanted to reap the benefits of NAFTA and free trade. So these parties have just flip flopped their positions. And the idea that Americans can't say what they want, even if it's unpopular, is crazy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Sure, so again, like we get into the nuance. I think all Americans, like 80, 90% are in favor of closing the border and having an orderly immigration process. But I think this country was actually built by immigrants for immigrants. And so when Steve Miller says something like xenophobic, like, oh, America's only for Americans, Americans only, he's pulling up the ladder.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You look at you brought up Zuckerberg before. He was more than willing, under Biden, Kamala, everybody, to ban speech on his platform. YouTube would put warnings on the All In podcast when we talked about the science behind COVID. Like, you really need to give people a warning? Like, Friedberg's a scientist. Like... You're warning people, blocking content. It makes no sense.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
If Kanye West, as but one recent example, is a racist, mentally ill, whatever he is, and he posts crazy stuff, we can all see it. Now we know. Kanye's mentally ill and or he's a huge fan of Hitler's. Great. Now we know. We don't have to do business with him. I always love the fact that these idiot, racist lunatics would out themselves. That's good. Yeah.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And it's good for our kids and everybody else to see, hey, here's racist people. Here's racist, evil people. They exist in the world. They're nuts. There they are. And you can ignore them. You can change the channel. If you don't like what somebody is saying, you can listen or you can create your own media today and counter it. You could write an essay.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You could do your own monologue on your own podcast. And why silence people? I don't understand what the point is. It basically says to me you can't win the argument or you're not willing to engage the argument.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
It's so interesting you bring this point up as a broadcaster. Broadcaster, broadcaster. I had a conversation with Lex, and I was talking to Lex. He's like, should I have Kanye on? I'm going to try to get through to him. I said, Lex, you're a great interviewer. We're friends.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
he's mentally ill and you're going to platform, I guarantee you, in the first hour or two, he's going to say something so crazy and then you're going to be responsible for propagating it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Well, if you know the person's got mental illness, I mean, giving them a platform. How do you know, Jason? Have you watched him and have you heard his family say he's having an episode? His family said he's having an episode.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
We should actually, Megan, be recruiting the smartest people in the world to come to this country. And that's really at the heart of this Trump 1.0 MAGA OGs versus the techies. And you saw J.D. Vance sort of tackling this head on on Twitter this week. I think the soul of MAGA is probably being debated.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You know, she was... I was friendly with her for a long time with Karen Swisher. I'm sorry, Kara. Same. And, you know, she kind of... When she was with Walt Mossberg, you know, she really focused on the tech, the business. She was a little spicy on the margins as a broadcaster. But when she partnered with Scott Galloway, the whole thing went really dark.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And, you know, I have some sympathy for him. He's talked about mental illness, depression, whatever, very publicly on his podcast. And... I think he's so desperate to get ratings, and they're making decent money. I think from their podcast, they've been talking about, oh, they're making eight figures with their new deal or whatever. They just do Elon for clicks, right?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
In the NBA, I'm a Knicks fan. We have an expression, Knicks for clicks. You get a lot of clicks if you talk about the Knicks because it's a big market. You get a lot of views if you trash Elon, but- You know, I do think, you know, they're saying some things that are truly offensive and then which is fine. But he also was like making jokes about Trump being assassinated.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I thought that was incredibly poor taste. Like you really shouldn't make jokes about, you know, potential assassination of the president.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah, it's like happened twice. And, you know, I think he's off the deep end. You know, people send me clips and they go viral and stuff like that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I was with Elon like the two or three times she interviewed him, like because we're friends and we hang and. It's irrelevant. And, you know, like trading on other people's brand, like just go build something in the world. Go do something yourself. And I think these commenters are not actually in the arena, as my friend Shamov likes to say. They're not building something.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Should we, do you believe, we should drag the other 19 million hardworking immigrants in this country out of the country? You think the nannies, the dishwashers, the people who've been here for 20 years and built a life, you think all 20 million should be dragged out of the country?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
So they just want to tear people down. And it's good for ratings or whatever. But it just seems super illogical because – to what we were just talking about with Germany and Europe. They're just out of sync with how people think.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
They're super out of sync, and they're not objective. I can come on here and I can talk about, hey, here's where we differ in the border, and you can have an intelligent conversation about it. I think they're just off the deep end with Elon derangement syndrome, Trump derangement syndrome. I think they're just really scared of what's going to happen during this presidency.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I can tell you what's going to happen during this presidency, exactly what happened the last time. It's going to be a bit chaotic. Stock market's going to go up. We're going to balance the budget a bit. He'll stop the wars. He's good at not starting wars and he's good at stopping them. And I think it will be a relatively successful presidency. And then somebody else will win and life will go on.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
This idea that Trump's going to destroy the world is crazy. He didn't destroy the world last time.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Thanks, Megan. Good times. Happy Valentine's Day. Yeah, we could do this a Valentine's Day tradition.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Here we go. It is all about me. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the All In podcast. The number one. MAGA. I was a never Trumper. And now I'm rooting for him wholeheartedly to do great work. I will say publicans are fun. Fashion was off the hook. And all credit to Trump for winning and running an incredible campaign.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I mean, just they they crushed us as somebody who was a never Trumper, as you all know, in the audience. And now somebody who is supporting him relentlessly. He's also done an incredible job with the border. 2025's biggest political winner. I said Gen X and the elder. millennials. You got Elon with Doge. You got Saks, obviously. Marco Rubio. My God, it just goes down.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And then if you look at the elder millennials, J.D. Vance, Vivek, Tulsi, just a lot of young people. And this is going to be absolutely fantastic, I think. Chamath, he's been red-pilled.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah, I mean, I've always been a moderate and voted, like I said, maybe living in New York and in California most of my life. You know, I didn't have the opportunity to vote for a Republican that many times, but about one out of three, I vote a Republican. And having lived in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, you know, you don't have to...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
do too much research to see how far the woke left and these like radical socialist kind of borderline communists in San Francisco, you know, how ineffective they've been at running those cities. Watching New York go from when I grew up in the 70s and 80s being pretty dangerous, then Giuliani and Bloomberg cleaning the place up.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
And then now, gosh, it's just gone back into chaos every time I go to New York. And I left San Francisco. I live now on a horse ranch here in Texas, in Austin. And it's a lovely purple combination, I think, of what I loved about New York, L.A. and San Francisco. And, you know, this Texas culture, which it feels to me like the pure American culture, which is...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
You know, it's great to be an entrepreneur. It's great to celebrate entrepreneurship and creation, which is the business I'm in. I invest in 100 new companies per year as well as doing four podcasts a week. So I'm kind of like a broadcaster and an angel investor. And I really was disheartened by what I saw happen with the Democratic Party and how they related to entrepreneurs specifically.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Myself, Elon, Joe Rogan, Chamath, we're all Democrats, we're left-leaning, right? We believed in freedom, supporting gay rights, supporting a woman's right to choose, these kind of issues. And then the Democratic Party basically kicked Joe Rogan out, they kicked Elon out, and none of us passed – their ridiculous woke mind virus test. And I'm for freedom. I'm for freedom of speech.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
I'm a Second Amendment fan. And that party just went so far left. So I feel like I've always been right here in the middle, fiscally responsible, kind of Clinton Democrat. And then I feel like the Democratic Party just went off the deep end. Like, I'm not down with... you know, giving surgery to children who are confused about their gender. Like, that's crazy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
If you ask 90, if you ask 100 parents, 99 would say, are you crazy giving surgery to a child who's confused and has gender dysphoria? That's crazy. And now we're seeing... Many countries in Europe and in fact, here in the United States, some states saying, hey, yeah, no more of this. And doctors are being sued and the detransitioning movement is just heartbreaking.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
So how many people do need to die in a mass shooting for it to be?