Jason Calacanis
Appearances
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, hold on. He ran and shattered the party, the established power structure. Remember, it was the Bush family's party when Trump first ran. Jeb was supposed to be the nominee, right? He was supposed to inherit the mantle from W the way that W inherited from his father.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You look like Mike Pence. Jesus, is it a Mike Pence moment? It's a Mike Pence fly. It's a Mike Pence fly, yeah. It is a Pence moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And Trump came in there and appealed directly to Republican primary voters and called the forever wars a mistake and said he was going to build the wall and said that he's going to reset things with China. Issues that were latent in the Republican Party, and he took over the Republican Party the way you're supposed to, through democracy, through voting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That opportunity is gone here because the Democratic primaries happened last year, and the Biden team ensured that he would basically win the primaries handily. So they control all the delegates. Remember that. Totally. They control the delegates. They're not going to release them to a Jamie Dimon or some other billionaire who wants to shake up the party. Well, let me ask you a question,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, it is over. Why do you think that Kamala can't win? That's their thinking right now is that she stands a better shot than Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They're never going to hand the reins of the party to a total outsider. The Democratic Party is the ultimate insider party, and they are going to pick an insider. It's insiders picking insiders. And I think they've realized over the past week in particular that they cannot sidestep around Kamala Harris, both because it would be a slap in the face to her constituency and the money issue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So it's Kamala or bust for them. It's either Kamala or Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That's pretty dark.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's pretty dark. Okay, three, two.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Look, what the prediction markets are showing is that it's not going to be a free fall. It's either going to be Harris or Biden. I mean, that's what the prediction markets are showing. And I think that's fundamentally right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But look, I think there's real danger here to the to the country in this, because what a lot of people are saying, and I guess it makes sense, is that if Biden's not fit to run again, how is he fit to serve out the rest of his term?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
He's got to resign. Okay, so if he resigns, and that's probably the thing that helps Harris the most, right? Because now she gets sworn in as commander-in-chief. She's the president of the United States.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's a major glow-up for her, and it imbues her with all of this gravitas and credibility that she's now the president of the United States. They can send her to G7 meetings and deal with other world leaders. They've got four months to basically... take this candidate who everyone thought wasn't ready.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Remember, a year ago during the primaries, when Biden ran again, one of the reasons why is because everyone said that Congress is not ready. Every interview she does is basically a cackle or a word salad. In any event, no one thought she was ready. Now, they have basically made her seem much more significant by giving her the presidency. But my point is this, we're in the middle of a war
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
We're in the middle of a war with Russia just a week or two ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Both. A week or two ago. American cluster bombs were used to kill Russian civilians sunbathing on the beach in Crimea. Okay, our weapons are targeting killing Russian civilians. The Russians in response to that said, we are no longer in a state of peace with the United States. They did not say we're in a state of war, but they said we're no longer in a state of peace.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And the Russians have indicated that they may escalate horizontally by giving advanced weapons to our enemies. For example, they've talked about giving cruise missiles to the Houthis, okay? So all of this is happening right now in real time on the world stage. And you're gonna remove Biden, who look, I don't like Biden's policies,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I don't think he's compus mentis for more than a few hours a day. But I would still rather have Biden as commander in chief for the next six months than take the risk of putting Harris in there, who's inexperienced, who's a lightweight, and who might want to prove how tough she is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Look, it was obvious now for months, if not years, that there's been a huge cover-up of his cognitive decline. And the media has participated in this. Anyone who raised that question was treated as being a partisan or a liar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And just for a good example of this, I know you described George Stephanopoulos as a straight shooter, but when Nikki Haley was on his show a few months ago, and I'm not a fan of Nikki Haley at all. But she started making this point and Stephanopoulos basically wouldn't let her finish. I mean, basically shouted her down. So the media was actively suppressing the story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You take Morning Joe, a Scarsborough. He was saying that this version of Biden is the best he's ever been. And we've been hearing all of that kind of stuff for months. They were describing true videos showing Biden being out of it. They were describing those as being fakes, clean fakes. They invented this new term for perfectly real videos that basically would reflect his
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So the media has been engaged in a gigantic cover-up of this, and as a result, the country is in really bad shape because we have to go through the next six months either with a senile president who has limited cognition or we could end up with a new president who is untested, inexperienced, and based on every interview she's given in the last four years, appears to be completely clueless
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
At a moment in time where I think we have the most dangerous foreign policy situation since the Cuban Missile Crisis. So this is a really horrible situation. And hold on, it's the media bears a lot of responsibility. And what should have happened, OK, what should have happened is we should have had a robust Democratic primary a year ago. Sure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Based on concerns about Biden's cognitive abilities reported by an honest media. We never had that. Yeah. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Imagine if this feeding frenzy happened a year ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Clearly, Biden can't serve a second term. But the question is, what do we do now? And I got to say, it's amazing to me that the Democrats are not considering the one option that is kind of obvious, which is you let the man run the most dignified campaign he can. He's the candidate you chose, and you lose.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Oh, Satire Sax is back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Here he is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, this is not Satire Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
This is not Satire Sax. The real problem here is the Democrats refuse to lose. They want to cling to power however they can. They refuse to let democracy just work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, this is really interesting. So there is an analog. Okay, in 1996, Bob Dole was the Republican candidate for president. And quite frankly, he was too old. He was seen as a relic. Clinton was fairly popular. And it was pretty obvious that he was just a loser and he was going to lose. Do the Republicans engage in shenanigans to try and fix the situation? No.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They just accepted the inevitable that Dole was going to lose. And what they did is they pulled financing from his campaign, at least in the final month, and they redistributed it to House and Senate candidates. And actually, they did better. In the House and Senate, they held on to the House and Senate. I think they lost a few seats, but way less than they were expecting to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And they kind of ran on a campaign that, you know, you can't trust Slick Willie. So keep us on split the ticket and keep us on as a check against him. And it actually worked fairly well. It was the best the Republicans could do. But frankly, they let Bob Dole run a dignified campaign. My advice to the Democrats would be don't have Biden resign. Doing a shakeup right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
If you're a Democratic, listen to Sachs. clueless president in there who's going to want to show how tough she is and bring in her own team in the middle of this dangerous situation. Let Biden run a dignified campaign and lose.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Jamie Dimon and Bob Iger.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's called wish casting. You're doing wish casting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Brilliant. Okay. Well, you guys better have a magic lamp with a genie in it because that's the only way this is going to happen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, I think that with respect to the Texas and Florida laws, I think their heart was in the right place. They were motivated by the right things, which was to reduce censorship on the social media platforms, specifically censorship of conservatives, which is to say they're citizens.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But those laws probably were overly broad, and they infringed on the free speech of corporations, because I guess corporations get free speech too. And basically what the ruling says is that content moderation receives the same First Amendment protections as any other kind of speech. So the decisions of what...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
content you're going to keep up or take down on your own property is itself a speech decision, and the government has to respect that. So that's what the ruling here was saying. I think it's not a bad decision. I wish the Supreme Court, however, had coupled this with a better decision in the Missouri versus Biden case, which they basically said that the plaintiffs lacked standing to pursue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So they didn't necessarily give a dispositive ruling in that case, but they threw it out. And basically what that case was about was the Biden administration was engaged in attempts to influence or pressure social media companies to take down speech. It's a practice known as jawboning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I wish they had coupled this decision with a better decision in Missouri versus Biden, saying the government's not allowed to coerce social networks to take down speech either. And they refuse to do that. So I wouldn't say these are like the greatest decisions. set of decisions with regard to free speech that the court's ever done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I hope that they will come back in the future once they find a plaintiff with the right standing to address that issue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
To Friedberg's point, I mean, I think this ruling might have been necessary from a constitutional standpoint because corporations do have free speech rights. But again, I would say that I think that the laws of Texas and Florida were coming from a good place, which is they were trying to protect the rights of their citizens to engage in free speech.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think it's just unfortunate that in this case, it's a zero-sum game. And as a result, those laws were invalidated. I think that makes sense, but I still think we have a problem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, I think it's really tricky to figure out how to solve this. Got it. I think for one thing, you don't want the government jawboning these sites to take down content. That clearly should be a free speech violation. I'm disappointed the court didn't get to that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But, man, we've got to start with Washington. I've never supported the mullet strategy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, no, no, no, no. I never said it had to be a political show. Exactly. I always said we start with the biggest, most topical issues first. And it could be business or it could be politics. Correct. You were discriminating against the politics. You were insisting that it be a business issue, even if the business issue wasn't relevant, topical, or interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Here we go. No, I was not. I think you're talking about Friedberg. Friedberg was the one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That's true. It mostly came from Friedberg. Who is right? Who brought the ratings of this pod to a whole new level?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, I agree with that, and I agree with what Freeberg said. Look, when this decision, the Chevron decision came down in 1984 at the height of the Reagan revolution, conservatives actually liked it. They praised it because we were coming off a period of an activist court. you know, the Warren court.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And they thought that shifting power from the courts to the agencies would actually be a good move. Well, it turns out it completely backfired. Chevron, when it came out, was not a widely noticed decision. Since then, it's been cited 18,000 times by federal courts. It's turned out to be enormously important and influential.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, Friedberg. Who brought the MAGA lunatics?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And the reason for all those citations is it's the courts deferring to the rulemaking of an agency. You know, what Chevron basically says is as long as the agency's interpretation is reasonable, or you could say not unreasonable, then the agency can basically promulgate the rule. And what this has led to is an orgy of rulemaking by all these federal agencies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Who built this thing? Me. Who built this? Me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And so most of our laws now effectively are being made by unelected bureaucrats who are part of this three-letter alphabet soup of government agencies. It's not the Congress, it's not the court, it's not the president. It's this fourth branch of government that's not in the Constitution, which is the administrative state.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And so the administrative state has become incredibly powerful as a result of Chevron doctrine. And now I think by reversing it, you actually give a chance for the restoration of democracy. Basically, the agencies are not empowered to essentially make whatever rules they want as long as they
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
superficially appear reasonable, they actually have to show that their rules are within a statute, that they were directed by Congress to effectively engage in the rulemaking. So this is a step in the right direction for sure. But again, the real problem here is reigning in this unelected administrative state.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
By the way, I mean, the ratings of this pod hit some sort of new stratospheric level. Not just with President Trump interview, but last week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, I mean, I would say it's not even necessarily an originalist or conservative court. It's a 3-3-3 court, meaning there's three conservatives, there's three liberals, and there's three justices in the middle. You have this middle block led by the Chief Justice Roberts with Kavanaugh and Barrett, and then you got the conservatives with Gorsuch and Thomas and Alito.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And sometimes the middle block goes with the liberals, sometimes it goes with the conservatives. Again, it's more of like a triangle. And as we know, the triangle is the best shape for equipoise, right? Because it creates balance. And I think what we have right now is a balanced court. And I think on the whole, they've done a good job.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I think it's kind of sad that in reaction to some of these decisions, you've got powerful lawmakers like Elizabeth Warren who are explicitly calling for packing the court. They're actually saying, you know, put a bunch of justice on here to ruin this equipoise that we have. I think it's really sad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think that the court right now is one of the last highly functional institutions in American public life. And for elected leaders to be calling for its destruction is just sad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I mean, not exactly. I mean, again, I view it as a 3-3-3 court. A lot of other people have written about that, and they've got their own diagrams and charts to show that. Look, I think it's a court, like I said, in equipoise. I don't think it's partisan. I think it's being reasonably fair. I don't agree with every single ruling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Like I said, I would have liked to have seen a different result in Biden v. Missouri. However, I think on the whole, they're doing a good job. And it really should be a scandal that you've got powerful lawmakers explicitly calling for the court to be passed. I mean, that would be a disaster, right? Because you have nine justices, which is a good number. You try to increase that to 13.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Then the next time the Republicans have control, they're going to increase it to 15 or 21 or whatever. And pretty soon we're going to have 100 justices on the court. You'll ruin it. You know, really, nine justices should be a constitutional requirement. We should just fix it at nine and not mess with that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So it's just scandalous to me that you've got politicians who are reacting to reasonable decisions by saying that we need to pack the courts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
do a deep dive into how incognito incognito mode is. You may want to get a VPN.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
All right, so... I'm surprised you're not discussing the immunity case. That's the one that all the pundits have been hyperventilating about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Nick, we should cut this whole segment. Why? It's so good. So pure. I'm trying to navigate this and not get labeled. Zax, where are you on this? What's your opinion? Zax, no. Zax is going to win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
so far 16 red states have passed or agreed to pass age gaining jay cal's got the dunder mifflin index of whatever sorry i couldn't hear it you guys started laughing too quickly say it again cut out you had the dunder mifflin score of xyz dunder mifflin so quick jay cal check the dunder mifflin score what does it say I don't understand the Dr. Mifflin score.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think this was an easy decision. All the majority did was codify explicitly what has long been presumed, that Presidents enjoy broad immunity for official acts that they undertake in the exercise of their constitutional authority and the duties of their office. It was established decades ago that presidents enjoy broad immunity from civil lawsuits.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So it's already been the case that presidents can't be sued civilly. Well, criminal liability is even harder to prove. So if you have the broad immunity from civil, you should have broad immunity from criminal as well. And the Supreme Court, I think, had never ruled on criminal immunity because they never had to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No former president's ever been subjected to the type of lawfare that's been deployed against Trump. who also happens to be the political opponent of the current president. So I think it's a shame that the Supreme Court has had to rule on this. Did they get every detail right? I don't know. I don't know what it means for the future.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Why are you doxing me? What's going on here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
However, I know the reason they're doing it, which is we've had this unprecedented lawfare against Trump. And that's why they've been forced to do this. So ultimately, I think this is the right decision. No, it does not authorize drone strikes against the president's political enemies. That's insane. It does not make the president above the law or a king.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I think that Roberts, in his ruling, said the key things. He said that the dissent's position in the end boils down to ignoring the Constitution's separation of powers and the court's precedent, and instead fearmongers on the basis of extreme hypotheticals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And then he says that the dissents overlooked the more likely prospect of an executive branch that cannibalizes itself with each successive president free to prosecute his predecessors, yet unable to boldly and fearlessly carry out his duties for fear that he may be next.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think that's really the key line here is that you're posing all of these insane hypotheticals instead of recognizing the practical reality that if you don't give presidents immunity... then the next president is going to prosecute the old president. And future presidents will be hamstrung in doing this very important job that's already difficult enough.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So I think that this was just a necessary decision. There was no way around it. And the president already has civil immunity. You got to give him criminal immunity too.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
that's totally irrelevant to the course decision.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think that what you just described there is what's known as a question of fact in the legal system. There are questions of law and questions of fact. And what the Supreme Court has done is given us a doctrine. They've answered the question of law. They've basically given us a three-part test.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They said that when the president acts within his exclusive constitutional authority, he gets broad immunity. When he does an official duty, but that's not in that category, he gets presumptive immunity, meaning that the prosecutor can still go after him. They just have to rebut the presumption. And when he engages in a personal act, there's no immunity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
So, look, what has to happen now is if Jack Smith wants to continue this prosecution of Trump, he's going to have to make the argument that Trump's acts were either personal or were part of his duties, but he's going to rebut the presumption. So that is now the question of fact that Jack Smith would have to litigate. And I'm not going to litigate it here. I don't know the answer to that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But again, I would separate questions of law and questions of fact. What the Supreme Court has done, I think, is given us a useful doctrine that the presidency now needs in light of the reality of lawfare.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Between this ruling and another case called Fisher v. U.S., which is the January 6th obstruction case, where the Supreme Court in a 6-3 majority found that Sarbanes-Oxley was being misused to create a new crime called obstructing an official proceeding. When you combine that judgment with this judgment, I think Jack Smith should just resign.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Well, I don't think he's going to do that because he is scheduled to do a sit-down interview with George Stephanopoulos. I think they're recording it on Friday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
It's pretty clear that some court has kicked the legs out from under his case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That's right. So again, not a hyper ideological, not a hyper partisan court. They just ruled that Sarbanes-Oxley had nothing to do with what happened on January 6th, and it was being misused by a creative prosecutor. And I told you when these Jack Smith cases first came, I said it's not the job of a prosecutor to be creative. Their job is to narrowly interpret the law and to enforce the law.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And you combine these rulings together, and you can see that Jack Smith has now an even more uphill battle. It's time for him to resign. By the way, that's 200 convictions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They took hundreds of people who did not engage in any violence on January 6th. Many of them just wandered through an open door in the Capitol and they were prosecuted to the hilt. They were sent to jail for that because this DOJ wanted to send a statement. They wanted to use them as a political talking point. And that's a shame.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I think hundreds of people were horribly mistreated by the judicial system As part of a political prosecution.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No problem putting those people in jail. No problem. Anyone who used violence, go directly to jail. Do not pass go. But some of these people just took a tour through the Capitol.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Some of them went to jail. The ones who went to jail. Jacob Chansley spent three years in jail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I don't know that. Just because he wore the Viking. Remember the guy with the Viking?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. He's going to do an interview with Stephanopoulos on Friday, and then Stephanopoulos is showing it in two parts on Saturday and Sunday. So it's going to be edited. So we don't know what they're going to edit in or edit out. At this point, though, the media is in such a fleeting frenzy that I don't think that ABC is going to cover for Biden. So
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I saw a video of him getting a guided tour through the Capitol.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
What did he do? He moved a dais around?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
He didn't. I never saw any video of him doing that. Anyway. They picked on him because he was an easy target because he looked like a weirdo. And he had the Viking horns. And he has a history of mental problems. And so they put that man in jail for years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, I'm not concerned about him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
That wraps up the All In podcast. You can have those concerns. I don't think it lets you put innocent people in jail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They didn't. They bumped Virginia, just to be clear.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
In Virginia?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
In Virginia?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I'm not defending them. Are you defending them? No, I'm not defending them. I'm just clarifying that there were no guns at the Capitol because that's a lie. No, no, they were in the hotels around the Capitol. But I don't think innocent people who just wandered through the Capitol should go to jail. And that clearly happened.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Whoa. I think it's more likely than not that they're not going to replace Biden because the only feasible alternative is Harris and should be worse. And I think it's more dangerous for the country, frankly. I'd rather just see Biden finish out his term than put someone... new experience, even if he had too bad, it's too bad choices, J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
And I don't agree with Biden's policies, but there's continuity there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I suspect it'll probably be a pretty fair representation of the actual recorded interview. In any event, that's coming out this weekend. I think the Biden presidency basically hinges on this interview. If Biden can show that he's sharp and he's responsive and not senile, and presumably he's going to sit down and do this at the best hours of the day, right? They can't make that excuse anymore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Right, exactly. So I'm sure he can do this at a time when he has the good stuff. I think if he knocks it out of the park, maybe he can quell all of this speculation. But if not, if it goes poorly, then I think he's done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah, because think about it. I mean, the accusation is that he's senile. That's not a hard thing to disprove if you're not actually senile. You just need to go in there. Right. It's a pretty low bar, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Not senile.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Yeah. So he just needs to go in there and talk for whatever it is, an hour. And he's not going to be fed a hardball question. He's probably going to be pretty softball questions. He just has to prove that he's not senile. If he can do that, it'll calm things down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
I didn't have time to get like a whole... All I heard was lick my anus. It's N-I-S, not N-U-S. So Nostracanus prediction coming in here. Here's what will happen, Freeburg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
The hot swap's going to happen, so you didn't call it. The problem with your hot swap theory has always been that not only would Biden step down, but that magically they would choose the best candidate. We would get a Jeff Bezos, we get a Jamie Dimon, that somehow we would get someone who represented all of Trump's policies without being Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
But you would get some magical moderate to emerge in the Democratic Party. That's not going to happen, okay? Thanks to your incessant demands for the hot swap, you and many others, and this feeding frenzy. So I caused it? I love it. Yeah, you in part, along with many others, have caused this feeding frenzy. We are going to get President Kamala Harris. She's the only alternative.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You can see this in the prediction markets. Just a few days ago, it was sort of evenly divided between there was her, there was Gavin Newsom, there was Gretchen Whitmer. Now it's just her. Why has that happened? Because they realize they can't sidestep Kamala Harris without offending a major constituency in the Democratic Party. Equally important, maybe even more important,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They would lose roughly a billion dollars of contributions to the Biden-Harris campaign if neither Biden nor Harris is running at the top of the ticket. They'd have to refund all of that money back to the donors who contributed it. There's no way they're going to start over from zero in terms of fundraising. So they've realized that if...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
Joe steps aside, there is only one feasible candidate for them, which is Kamala Harris.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
You're operating under the charming delusion that the Democratic Party cares about democracy. This is basically a party that's run by political insiders that hates billionaires and people like this. People like Warren Buffett and Jamie Dimon, they pay the Democrats protection money. That's how Democrats see them. We're going to go shake them down to get money from them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
They're not going to hand over the reins of the party to some outsider like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
All right, everybody, welcome to the number one podcast in the world. Here we are on the All In podcast. We have a fifth bestie with us today. Joining David Freiberg, Chamath Paihapatiya, David Sachs, and myself is the one and the only Mark Cuban. How you doing, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
On a percentage basis, how often have you voted just a level set, Democrat versus Republican, would you say, out of 10 elections?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
No, I think what he's saying is the leadership that he shows is of low moral character. Did he do anything right, Mark?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Tell us about that. That's fascinating. He got 19% of the vote as an independent candidate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So that is the answer to your question. So just to summarize what you the argument that you don't like about him is you got to know him, like many people do. You worked with him on projects. And like Pence, Barr, Mateus, Tillerson, Bill Barr, and Mike Cohen, and the Mooch, Omarosa, you realized this person is out for themselves. They don't care about the people they work with. And you fell out of
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Freeberg hasn't been able to get involved. Let's have Freeberg ask a question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
No, no, but I just wanted to include Freeberg in the discussion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What is the high level report card mark to put a cap on this just for the audience. Here is our national debt over the two presidencies, the two terms. And as you can see, with the taking out the bump for COVID, it's pretty much they're both wild spenders. I think we can all agree they both are spending too much money and we need to have more fiscal discipline. We all agree on that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Now, to Chamath's point, it's steel, man. Anything you like about the Trump presidency? And then we'll go to Kamala.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I mean, I reversed that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yeah, 35 to 21. You got it exactly right. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Or Vivek would have beaten Trump in a debate?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Here we go. Two things seem to be true at the same time. If I'm recapping your position here, Mark, one, you would have liked to seen Trump debate. Two, I think you would have loved to seen a speed run primary, perhaps maybe Kamala, you know, battled it out. I honestly didn't care.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yeah, you got a good character arc on Entourage. I think that was probably the best one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was pretty memorable. So, Sax, lead us off here. I don't know if you've been following Mark Cuban on social media at all or if you guys interact.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Why do you think they opened the border so much? I'm wondering, Mark. There is a conspiracy theory, or theory, you can pick how you want to frame it, that this is to increase the number of Democratic voters. At the same time, we hear that a lot of the folks coming in who are the working class, that the Republican Party is now the populist party, so those votes would go to the Republicans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So, you know, I've heard this argument from both sides.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
In any event- Yeah, well, people were actually, it was interesting to bring that up because people were sharing videos and playing them on Fox that were from like 10 years ago. So there was a lot of misinformation. The Democrats,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Now it's actually a good question for you, Sax. If J.D. Vance can lobby and want a national abortion ban and then change his mind as the number two for Trump, can Kamala change her mind when she decides? He's no longer running for, you know, the number two seat as Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Can Kamala and you have the grace for Kamala to change your mind or not?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
You have a nuanced opinion of this, yeah. And Ukraine?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And on the first day of the new fiscal year, federal debt jumped by $204 billion in one day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What would be common sense? crypto regulation. Obviously, you don't want people bilking people out of their money. Yeah. So what would be a way to balance accredited investors versus the populace non sophisticated investors, if that's even a thing. So I've got a company called people running a muck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, I was going to say, wouldn't a more common sense approach here be to say, if we had an accreditation test, a sophisticated investor test, we've talked about it here on the program. Which you do, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, there's not one for the populace to take like a driver's license where they could say, hey, I've taken this test. I understand this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Why would she do interviews with unfriendly or challenging folks? This seems to be a really valid criticism.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
You have gotten very vocal about politics during this cycle. And you seem to be, I don't know if it's official, you know, speaking on behalf of the Kamala ticket. So why are you this active? What is the reason that you've decided to get this active during this election?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Then in some cases, he just lies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Do you think he's incognito for client sex?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
He's MIA right now and the Knicks are doing great. Do you think valuations peak, Mark?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, and you bought it for under $300,000 and you sold it for $3.5 million. Not everybody's keeping the records. I think Chamath, you bought at $300,000 and sold at $3 billion as well. So congratulations, boy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So, so, so you did oppo research sex. You got oppo research.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So you've heard from Saks. Are you a Cialis or a Viagra guy, Saks? What's going on here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Are you doing this as like a for-profit business? Are you losing money on this and doing it just to help society? What's your plan here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
and do comparisons to approximately what they're paying because their pbm won't tell them exactly what they're paying i have one suggestion for you there mark you can make this a non-profit when you sell the maps you could donate money to this then like six seven years later you could flip it into a for-profit and take it public there's like a strategy here and this could work out exactly the point and you know sam altman is an investor no i'm just kidding um and so um
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
You think there's going to be a chance at job displacement? What do you think of this universal basic income cataclysm?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Let me ask you a final, final question then. That's great. You've done a reality show, just retired from that, cashed out of three quarters of the Mavericks check, did that, helping people with,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
uh this cost plus drugs and and saving people money it's a pretty noble mission kind of adds up to you're going to run for president and no there's no no why not it would be a great thing to do you've checked off all the boxes why wouldn't you old now too old now right he's not what he's talking about he's 20 years younger than trump and biden is wrong i changed i'm a sock puppet in my spare time i changed four years from now eight years from now would you would you even consider it or if you were going to consider it yeah right yeah
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
How would you process making that decision?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
All right. So with that, my Knicks got a shot this year. What do you think? Yeah, I thought the trade was great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
You're saying there's a chance. My knicks might get there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
There's a chance. All right, everybody. This has been another amazing episode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Come back anytime, Mark, and we'll see you all next time. Bye-bye. Thanks, guys. That was awesome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
We can still go there. You can ask the question. All right. two of my besties last 25 years, you and Elon. Is this you guys just goofing on each other? You got an issue with Elon that's sincere? Or is it just playful, fun trolling?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What do you think about the First Amendment principle that he's doing here of, like, radically changing Twitter from, like, it's pretty controlled to, hey, anything goes?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Interesting. Yeah. It's certainly a different place.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, no, I know for a fact that this was a free speech mission for him. I do think, you know, multiple things can be true. Mark, you are correct that if you have spicy content, advertisers don't want anything to do with it. And they have choices. And it's also one of the smaller platforms that have choices that have more scale. So that makes it even easier.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And it's also true that they're boycotting him and specifically targeting but all these things are happening at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And I think when you look at what he's done there, we'll look at it historically as this place that was very controlled and clean and owned by the press and the elites became this chaotic thing, but also ultimately the one place where at scale, you cannot be canceled. And if you look at cancellation as a concept, the number one place to get canceled was Twitter.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
you said something even slightly off, man, they came down on you, they destroyed you. And now now that we've gotten rid of cancel culture, and people can say what they believe. And people can I don't know why it's necessary to find you think it's just finished the thought I do think that that will be looked at as a beautiful thing that he gave to society as a gift.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And it will be looked at as a really challenged business because it was an ad business that lost its advertising base. And Apple and Disney have choices. I
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
But he was also addicted to it. I can tell you that. As the person who got him to join.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
That's a pretty sharp elbow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Well, I mean, that would be reflected in the fact that so many people who are the co-founders have left. Yeah. That's a really big red flag. If this thing is going to change the world and all the co-founders leave.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yeah, with the original employees. I mean, I don't know if that's true, but that's bonkers. And then if you, well, I mean, if you also think about this business, Chamath, and where it's headed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
No, I was f***ing around the Donald Trump cabinet members thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, if you, we did a joke about it last week. But if you just look at
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
the the competition set that they're up against, they're losing 5 billion a year, they're making three and a half, they put this thing at 150 billion, it's 40 times 50 times revenue, to fill in that valuation on a price to sales basis, you know, it's kind of crazy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Oh, I can tell you they're freaking right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
This has been Overtime with the All In Podcast with Mark Cuban. We'll see you all next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
But just as a weird point, he literally prints out his emails, writes on them, has them scanned in and sent as an image to you. Mark, wow, so are you on CNN.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
He emailed it in image file.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Okay, go ahead, Satire Sacks. Well, look, who are you going to believe? The J-Cal's uninformed, non-expert opinion or the expert medical opinion of Dr. Jill Biden? with her doctorate in education.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
First Lady Macbeth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
He looks so happy in that moment, getting that approval. I mean, give the man some milk and cookies. I mean, he was delighted. I mean, literally let the man retire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
That is really scary. It's a really good point. That's really scary. is because there is no Biden. Biden is just the staff. So why would the staff ever fire themselves? And this is why it's actually important to have a leader at the top, to have a commander in chief, as opposed to just a shadow government consisting of party apparatchiks. And that's what we have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
The problem is when the staff gets something wrong, there's no one there to fire them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Because that would be firing themselves, Chamath. No, no, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think the real embarrassment for the media was the fact that they were exposed. The fact of the matter is, for months, if not years, they've been saying that this candidate is fine. He is cognitively fit. In fact, he's the best he's ever been. I've had two-hour lunches with him. He's wonderful. That's what they've been telling us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And the reason why their panic was so visceral last night in all these post-game wrap-up shows is they saw their credibility going down the drain. They saw that they had been exposed. It wasn't just the fact that Biden was exposed. They were exposed for putting out this North Korea-level propaganda for months and years. And everybody should understand these people were part of the cover-up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It wasn't just the Biden team who wants to hold on to their jobs. It was the media. It was this entire Democratic Party apparatus. They're all in on this giant con.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Let's just put it plainly. The Democratic Party is a collection of interests who want to remain in power. The Democratic Party is the party of government. Its goal is to allocate money and power from the government to the collection of interests who back the Democratic Party. In other words, it's basically a collection of interests who want to loot the republic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, obviously, no one's going to vote for that. So they have to make it about something else. They choose a figurehead. They talk about how this is about saving democracy. They basically invent hoax after hoax, lie after lie to basically maintain their power. And I think what's happened is the mask has come off. The whole thing, the whole shell game has been revealed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's obvious that Biden was always a puppet. for these interests who are hiding behind him. And now it's all being exposed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Right, and if people had listened a year ago to Dean Phillips, then the voters in the Democratic primary could have made a different choice. They could have maybe replaced Joe Biden, but the party elders and the powers that be did not let that happen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And now they're in a panic a year later trying to do a hot swap because it's manifest to everyone, to the American public, that Joe Biden is not fit to serve. But the real time to, hold on, let me just speak to the hot swap for a second. The time to do the hot swap was a year ago when Democratic primary voters could have voted for someone new.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
The problem you have now, J. Cal, I actually think that on balance, the hot swap is not going to happen. Let me just tell you why. I think you make a really good argument for it. Nonetheless... The reason it's not going to happen is that Joe Biden and Jill Biden have come out this morning and said there's no way that he's stepping down. It was just one bad night. He's fit to serve.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
There is no mechanism to replace a nominee who's already won all the necessary primary votes without their consent. So if the Bidens are saying we're not stepping down, there's no mechanism to force them to step down. And that's the situation we're in right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Let me finish my point. Yeah. They can pressure him. And that's what you're talking about is they're going to try and leverage him out. But the truth of the matter is that if they can't find the right leverage points, he does not have to step down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
You need money to run these things. All right, look, just one other final problem with the hot swap theory is not only is there no mechanism to force Biden to do it, but I don't think there's a consensus. right now on who the replacement would be. The fact of the matter is that Kamala Harris is next in line and she pulls even worse numbers than Biden does.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
So there's every reason to believe that she would do worse than Biden in the election. And I think it's not going to be easy to basically shiv her and push her aside. And so you can talk about Newsom, you can talk about Michelle Obama, you can talk about Hillary Clinton. The fact of the matter is that I think you're going to have a big Kamala problem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And because of that, you know, there's no mechanism and there's no clear replacement. I think that although a lot of people are going to say what you said, J. Cal, about the hot spot being desirable, I think at the end of the day, on balance, probably not going to happen, although certainly I admit it could.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
You could be right, but they've got to work out those two problems. They've got to work out those two problems.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I would not bet a lot of money on this because I'm not sure. I'm just raising some problems with the hot swap theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Of course. Yeah, because you're not a donor. They only care if you donate. And you're not a donor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Yeah, let's hear it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
We already knew that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
You've also eliminated Trump. You've also eliminated Bobby Kennedy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Maybe Cornel West? Let's move forward.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
people with you know really high-end degrees and really high-end salary expectations well i agree with jamatha it's just too soon for ai to be responsible for this i mean the ai productivity gains are just starting and we're not really seeing job elimination yet or job replacement i think this is just a symptom of economic weakness and the main reason for the economic
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
weakness is the rate hike cycle. Remember, we went from practically 0% interest rates to 5.5% in one year. And a lot of people were expecting that to cause a recession. That's normally what happens when you get a very, very rapid rate hike cycle, is it sucks liquidity out of the economy and it contracts economic activity and you get a recession.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I was one of the people who thought that, and that didn't happen. I think one of the reasons it didn't happen is there was a huge backlog of jobs, of sort of open job postings. I think originally it started at 12 million open jobs. Well, what's happened is the rise in interest rates has created some economic weakness. It's caused a reduction in liquidity and investment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's created more pressure on companies to be profitable. And so all those things have cascaded through. And what it's doing is it's burning off this job backlog. So we haven't necessarily seen unemployment yet, but we're seeing a reduction in the job postings. And I think that's what's going on. And I would just say that the economy may not be in recession yet, but I just think it's weak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And this is just one metric showing that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I'll answer your question, Jake. I mean, what I see from our portfolio companies is hiring has got easier. It is way higher, much easier to hire devs right now, software developers than two years ago. No question about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, for a long time on this show, I've been saying that you need to clean up that. convoluted Byzantine corporate structure with all the line charts everywhere. That structure is what created all the problems with this nonprofit board that they had. You've got a for-profit entity reporting to a nonprofit board. It created a culture clash.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And as we've said before on the show, it's not a good idea for startups to innovate on structure. Using a tried and true C-corp is the way to go. You're ready for IPO if you ever get that far. You don't need to restructure the company. It was always funky and weird that OpenAI had this nonprofit structure. And really, they should have fixed it years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And like I said, given Elon his equity, given Sam his CEO package, and they didn't do either one of those things. And so now they're left with this...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
crazy org chart that's a mess and I'm not even sure I mean I think it's I think you would want to clean it up as soon as you can because I think my sense is that the longer you wait on these things the harder it actually gets but yeah more calcified these things get I'm not sure how easy it is to actually fix this thing but yes they should fix it They should make it a standard C Corp.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
They should make things right with Elon because he provided the first $40 million of seed capital. They should make it right with Sam. He should get his CEO comp. And then they should IPO so that the public actually has the ability to invest in this AI wave and ride this wave the same way they did with the whole dot-com boom. in the late 90s.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I mean, a lot of those dot-com companies didn't work out, but some of them did. Amazon, Google, and so on. And the public had the opportunity to participate in that huge wave of innovation. And I think we could have something like that happen here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, no, it will affect the public if they can buy shares and they get to participate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Yeah, but OpenAI is one of the leading companies of the AI wave. It is the leading company. It's the leading company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, no, I don't think so. I mean, we saw a lot of these companies that you could have said that about NVIDIA and it basically went up 30x.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
My argument is that it'd be good for OpenAI to clean up its Byzantine cap table and structure. And it would be good for the public to be able to have the opportunity to invest. So it's a win-win. I'm not saying they have to do it this minute. I mean, I think that it does take time. to get your reporting to the level of maturity necessary to be a public company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And you don't want your earnings or your revenue, you don't want your numbers to be volatile.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I was going to say, you know, that question that you asked is really a highly personal question because you could think that OpenAI is a great company that's going to be worth a trillion dollars in the future. Sure. But it still makes sense for you to take chips off the table because 100% of your net worth is in that one company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I would take some chips off the table. Half?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I mean, you're an insider. So maybe you have a lot of information. If you were really bullish on the future of the company, maybe you take 10 or 20% of your chips off the table. If you're less bullish, maybe it is 50%. So I don't know. I'd be influenced by my perspective on that. But I think that you could think it's the greatest company in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And still, it would make sense for you to take some chips off the table because you don't want all your eggs in one basket. That's a personal diversification decision.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, yeah, they're borrowing their way into the deep state. I mean, the quid pro quo is we will be your vessel. We will be an arm of the intelligence community, of the deep state. We'll give you access to whatever it is you're looking for. And in exchange, you're going to basically protect us and allow us to get rich. And frankly, that's the deal that all the big tech companies have made.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
They are all in bed with the intelligence community. And we saw this in the Twitter files. where every week for the year before the 2020 election, there were meetings between the trust and safety people, the censorship division of Twitter, and the intelligence community. So these people are working arm in arm
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And basically the big tech companies have given themselves over in a way to this powerful apparatus, this, you know, the deep state in exchange for, you know, they're willing to basically give up power in exchange to be left unfettered to make their money. I think it's a horrible development for the civil liberties of the ordinary American. But I think that is a reality of what has transpired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Yeah. Give us your opinion. Let me caveat what I'm about to say by saying that I have not heard the pitch directly for this company. I've only read what you've read in the press. What they're trying to do is the safe superintelligence. And I'm not bullish about that pitch because I think it – It makes the company a little bit schizophrenic. It's working at cross purposes with itself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
On the one hand, you're a new company, which means you're behind. You've got to catch up with OpenAI or Google, these other companies that now have been creating models for years. So you've got to move very fast. On the other hand, you're saying you're going to basically make this very safe. Well, to be frank, safety concerns are a brake pedal. They don't help you move faster.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
They make you move slower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And in fact, I think that this is the main reason why Sam Altman either kicked these people out of the company or starved their resources until they left. Remember, when a bunch of these people left OpenAI, they said that, hey, we were originally promised 30% of the computing resources by Sam, and then he reneged on that promise and didn't give us what we needed, so they all left.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think that wasn't by accident. I mean, I think that Sam wants to win. He wants to develop AI as quickly as possible, specifically AGI. And he had this group inside the company that, frankly, was a lobby for moving slower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Right. But I don't think that's the recipe for winning because you're the guys who want to move slower.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think that's a little bit harsh because I do think that by all accounts, Karpathy is like a top, top-notch technologist. And he's one of the leaders in the space. But I do think that he's going to be hamstrung by his own concerns about safety. And I think this is maybe the tragic situation is we're going to have this competition between by all these different companies to advance AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And the companies that care about safety more than others are gonna lose. And so you have this Darwinian effect going on where there's gonna be a race to AGI. And I think that is genuinely a little bit scary for where this all leads us. But I tend to think that it's not going to be solved by trying to impose the safety governor, as you said.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I think maybe the best you can do is impose a truth governor. So, you know, Elon says that we're going to make sure that our model at XAI, the Grok model, is scrupulously honest. It's not going to lie to you. And I think maybe that's the best you can do is advance AI to be truthful. But when you start injecting these other safety concerns, I just think it slows you down and hamstrings you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
If Microsoft can basically clone the breakthrough innovative product, let's say they do one every year, and then they put a crappy version of that in their bundle. Yeah, 10% or 50% worse, but they give it away effectively for free as part of the bundle. And then they basically pull the legs out from under that other company so it can't be a vibrant competitor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And then the next year, they'll just raise the price of the bundle, right? And they've done that with Slack. They've done that with Okta. They've done that with Zoom. Can we have a vibrant tech ecosystem, at least in B2B software, if Microsoft can just keep doing that indefinitely?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I think the EU made the right decision here. They basically sided with Salesforce, who made the complaint and said that Microsoft was engaged in illegal bundling by combining Microsoft Office and Teams. And the reality is Microsoft Office is a product that every company has to have, certainly every enterprise has to have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And by bundling, it means that that enterprise receives the Teams product for free until, of course, the price of the bundle goes up the next year, which it has just about every single year. So what that does is when that enterprise is evaluating the choice of do we use Teams or do we use Slack or, for example, Glue or some other tool, Teams on the margin appears to be free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
whereas Slack is something you'd have to pay for seats. And I think that is illegal bundling. You know, when you have a monopoly in one product and you systematically use it to keep adding new products that, again, on the margins appear to be free because you've bundled them. And I think the EU has done the right thing here, which is push to end the bundling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Every single product needs to have its own a la carte pricing. And when you add together the a la carte prices, It should equal the price of the bundle. So in other words, you don't get anything on the margin for free. The customer needs to have the discretion to choose what it wants.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
If we don't do that, I do think that Microsoft will use the power of the bundle to systematically dominate enterprise software. And they won't take on everybody at once. But like I said, every year they'll add a new product to the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's not free. It appears to be free on the margins because it's now part of the bundle. But then they raise the price of the bundle the next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
So once they've killed, once they've pulled the legs out, pulled the rug out from under their competition, and that competitor is no longer viable, now they can raise the price of the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
okay and so it's kind of like dumping in a way i mean this is a very old antitrust argument when you would dump product in the market to kill a competitor or you would price under your cost to kill a competitor right yeah you dump to basically drive a competitor out of business because there's large cost of entry there's large capex required to create a new competitor and um and this is this is basically what they're doing is they appear to give you they appear to give you
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
the Slack clone or whatever for free. But then once they've pulled the rug out, they'll increase the price of the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Look, what we've said all along is that the right approach to antitrust is to stop anti-competitive tactics. Bundling is at the top of the list. Instead, what they've stopped is all M&A, which is actually bad for the ecosystem because you deny risk capital a reward, and you need that reward in order to induce the next stage of risk-taking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
So again, I think this was a good decision by the EU regulators and the competition authorities in the US should actually be looking to this. Again, it's a better approach than stifling M&A.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It's fine to bundle commodities, but when a product is a monopoly and every enterprise must have it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And the whole benefit of SaaS is that you can switch all the time. Those options are on market power.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Microsoft Office is standard. It's standard in what? In the enterprise market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Look, once they put Teams in the bundle, Slack stopped growing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
No, you're not, because once they kill Slack, they'll just raise the price of the bundle. That's the point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Why can't you just make Microsoft- The idea of having a bundle should not be a violating action. No, all Microsoft has to do is they've got a price of the bundle. allocate that price across all the components of the bundle so people can buy each product a la carte. That's all. They can still sell a bundled offering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
It can be cheaper.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Okay. Well, the debate continues. Furthermore, I mean, on this very show, we were arguing that the Figma acquisition should go through because it created a new market for web designers, whereas Photoshop was basically for... Graphic designers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
All right. We're not going to settle it here. And there's a difference between a bundle and a suite. Suites are okay. Bundling, when you already have a monopoly in the relevant part of the bundle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Satire Sacks wants to say one more thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
No, let's put this tweet by Joe Biden, President Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
No, I want to compliment Joe Biden on continuing to fight. You keep fighting, Joe. Do not let the media get you down. One bad night is not a reason to get out of the race. All these people stabbing you in the back, they're basically ingrates and backstabbers. You're doing just fine.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
We need to get merchies already.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, let me speak as an objective and independent political observer. Okay. Just as independent as you, J. Cal. Yes, let's do that. Let's be independent today, show. Yeah. Look, anyone can have a bad night. Absolutely. Got the sniffles. His campaign put out the word that he had a cold and maybe he just had a bad night.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
I mean, after all, it was media people like Joe Scoresboro just saying a week ago that not only was Biden cognitively fine, but in fact, he was the best Joe Biden he had ever seen. Just a week ago or two weeks ago, Reid Hoffman was saying that he had a two-hour lunch with Joe Biden and Biden was regaling him with details of AI and Gaza and he was good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And so what we've heard from all of these highly reputable people is that Biden may not present that well in public, but in private, he's just fine.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I'm actually taking them at their word because they seem like very trustworthy sources to me. I see no reason to swap out this candidate. I think that anyone can have a bad night. And there's no reason whatsoever for the media to be panicking like this. Satire sucks. Satire sucks. Satire sucks is into the chat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
Well, I mean, look, I think that there's no reason for this kind of panic. I believe in democracy. And the Democratic primary voters have spoken. This is the candidate who they voted for. Okay. Stand by your message. Stand by your message. Stop being a wimp. Just because your candidate had one bad night, you don't stab him in the back like this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
And even I think Van Jones said, that Republicans wouldn't do this if Trump had a bad night. He's like, why are we all stabbing Biden in the back? So look, this is a candidate who you've been supporting for years. This is a candidate who you rigged the primaries for. You boxed out Bobby Kennedy, who I thought was a fantastic candidate. You basically boxed out Dean Phillips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
This is the candidate who you wanted. And who just days ago, you were saying, was completely mentally fit. In fact, the best he'd ever been.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Presidential Debate Reaction, Biden Hot Swap?, Tech unemployment, OpenAI considers for-profit & more
J. Cal's right about this, actually.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, everybody. As you know, there was a big verdict that came out today in the Trump trial in New York City. However, it came right after we were taping. So enjoy this episode. And then at the end, we'll go around the horn and get quick reaction from each of the besties on what they think of the Trump guilty verdict in the New York hush money trial.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I don't think he's going to have the platform behind him to get enough votes. I think the Democrats need to immediately, this month, in June, do the switcheroo. And if they do, I think they win in a landslide.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think, you know, if I want to be a strategist, this is just a conspiracy theory. I don't want to go to like tinfoil hat corner. I think the Democrats, as cynical as it sounds, we're waiting to see what happens with this Trump trials conviction, what you call lawfare, what other people call fair use of the law. And then they are going to see how he does in the debates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I'm kind of like the host. You know, like I mean, he's a bunch of guys. Who's this guy who does American Idol?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's why they moved the debate up in June. And I think they know to pull the plug on this if it gets too far gone. And they have the ability to do that because all he's got to say is, You know what? I'm feeling old and I want us to win and I'm going to slot somebody else in. But listen, let's go get to this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think precisely. Thank you for repeating that. And I think the only disagreement we might have there is I would agree like there's law for in two of the cases. And I think two of the cases I think are should be pursued. But, you know, we can intelligent people, as we said at the start of this, can agree to disagree about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I think you should all take if you're a listener to this podcast, you're smart. If you're here, you're smart. You're not listening to two-hour podcasts with us going this deep on issues if you're not a brilliant, smart, and attractive individual. So let's get to the docket. Present. Yes, that's right. Just say, you're brilliant and attractive, and he's here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Ryan Seacrest. I'm like going to be the new Ryan Seacrest. That's what they envisioned for me. And that's my first spin-off show. So here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, listen, I hate to go into another controversial topic, but the four of us were all on fire about this. Apparently, the COVID-19 investigation is leaning towards a massive cover-up. There's a subcommittee going on right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The world's not paying attention to this, but I think some savvy people are, especially over on X. There's a lot of great journalists who are doing incredible investigative work. Let me just catch everybody up in the audience real quick here and get the besties involved.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Over the past year and a half, a House subcommittee has been focused on the origins of COVID-19, and they've been investigating the NIH's ties with gain-of-function research in Wuhan. The subcommittee was painted early on as like, this is angry Republicans, this is about mask mandates. It was highly politicized, but it's actually turned out to be very effective bipartisan work. investigation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We'll get in on that in a minute. But so far, most of the investigation is focused on nailing down this timeline of communication between NIH officials and an organization called EcoHealth Alliance. This is a nonprofit that's focused on infectious disease research. Now, These committee videos are online. We'll play you on in a moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
But through funding in the NIH, the EcoHealth organization was awarded research grants to various labs. This included the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the infamous one. EcoHealth violated terms of its grants by failing to report that gain-of-function experiments were being conducted in Wuhan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
EcoHealth was supposed to report any experiment that exhibited characteristics leading it to being 10 times more infectious. But when that happened, it failed to disclose this research to the NIH. And on May 17th, a deputy director of the NIH acknowledged that the agency funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan via EcoHealth. This is the key because Fauci initially denied this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Rain Man, David Sack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
During his 2021 Senate hearing, Fauci said, quote, I totally resent the lie you are now propagating in response to questions from Rand Paul about the lab leak theory. So Fauci either didn't know or he lied under oath. Let me pause there for a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
There's a lot more to the story, but when you hear this sort of setup, Friedberg, our sultan of science, in this initial setup, what rings concerning to you, true to you? And then we'll go on and we'll play some clips of this testimony, which is pretty wild.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
In other words, their funding of this was not done to create a pandemic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Queen of Kinwada. There's a lot of news. My inbox is blowing up. I went over to Threads to see what was going on over there and I got absolutely savaged. Threads is like all the hall monitors left one school. Like, if they took the four hall monitors from every school in the country and you put them all in one place, that's Threads.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, so let me queue up those next details.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Well, yeah, let me cue this up here, Saxon, and get your... Why are you exonerating it? Hold on, let me cue it up. All right, so we started to see some consequences and accountability. Last week, the U.S. Department of Health cut all funding to EcoHealth in response to the committee's investigation. They disbarred its president, Peter Daszak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Daszak. And so we don't have direct evidence to be clear that the pandemic was the result of a lab leak. And, you know, just even saying the lab would have gotten this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Let's go to that in just one second. And thankfully, this isn't going to get our YouTube channel shut down because we have freedom of speech back a little bit. But. This is where it gets really interesting. Emails were written as EcoHealth with a tilde.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's that little squiggly line instead of an O. And they would spell Anderson with a dollar sign in the E. Christian Anderson, in this example, is a biologist who was reportedly awarded 9 million in grants from the NIH two months after publishing a paper claiming COVID did not come from a lab. And so let's get to some of these clips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Here's a clip of Fauci's former top advisor, David Morin's getting grilled in the hearing. And I'll play two clips and then I'll give it to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, so we're on the no recollection train, and then I'll give this final clip here. This is unbelievable, Sachs. Currently, there's a FOIA lady, Freedom of Information Act lady, working at NIH to train and help and mentor people on how to avoid having their Communications, these are people who work for us, and she's the FOIA lady at NIH. Play the clip, Nick.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Threads is like Zuckerberg's
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
twitter revenge killer that he created but all the journalists and woke folks went there and then all the conspiracy theories took over x and twitter and like freedom of speech in one place and then the hall monitors in the other but my lord the inbound i'm getting sax on apparently you're having a party this thursday and uh a couple of people are coming a soiree well it's my birthday it's my birthday party oh yeah okay so there's a little soiree happening sax enlighten the audience uh what are you up to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No. All right, Sax. There's your red meat. Smoking guns everywhere. What do you think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's literally like, they're like, here's how we can avoid getting caught in an email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
By the way, who is a Stanford professor, was banned for speaking up. Chamath, let's zoom out here and start thinking strategy and theories of what's going on here. I have my own, but I'm curious to hear yours first as we go around the horn here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think it's well said. And, you know, just looking at it, I think we are now at the point of this conversation and investigation where you can say this is not a bipartisan issue. And everybody knew, like we had these conversations on this very podcast, the public knew. Something didn't seem right about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And if you just think about this from first principles of what occurred here, just what occurred here. Schreiber, we funded gain of research to create these super viruses that what I think other people could just as equally call a bio weapon with the Chinese. Now, we're supposed to be arch rivals here. We're like these competitors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And then when it came out, and it leaked, and of course, I don't think it was released on purpose. When it came out, the people who work for us, and we trust with our family safety, who funded this in order to save their own reputations to cover their asses, then lied about it. And then, like, as you said, Sax, perfectly, they went on the offensive. These people were not elected by anybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's right. These people work for us. And they failed us. This is a crime against humanity of the greatest cause. People committed suicide. People died because they had depression. Our kids lost two years of school. Totally. This generation has lost their education. And now we have burdened them with... Billions, hundreds of billions of dollars in debt from this. This is a failure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Oh, God, it's so dark. It's so dark. I mean, the betting markets are just. Basically, they seem to have already made their decision, the betting markets, right? And the betting markets, they're not always right, but they were wrong, actually, about Hillary and Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
This is a failure of leadership. It is a crime. And when people said, prosecute Fauci, they were like, you're being hysterical. This is ridiculous. These people need to be prosecuted. If you hid this stuff from a FOIA request... You need to go to jail. There needs to be accountability here for what they did to society, our children, and the future.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I mean, talk about like incinerating your entire career and legacy, but putting that aside, the morality of covering this up. And, you know, so then you have to think, Shamaa, This is why I was like, what is the strategy? What goes through somebody's mind when they decide to do a cover up this level?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Is it just fear of getting caught and their lives being in their mind ruined and they're going to do this incredible cover up? I actually think that they thought this would become a globally destabilizing moment between the United States and China. And that there could be revolutions. Now, I know that this is now sounding really conspiracy theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
But if you're sitting there, and you're like, what if the public finds out we created this, and their grandparents died from it, and their kids didn't go to school because of it, there'll be riots in the street. But if enough time passes, maybe there's not riots in the street. But you know what, this is something that is just so abhorrent, that I mean, people need to really be held accountable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And a little update on the market close and tech stocks tanking and after hours trading stick with us. Man, what a week I've had. Oh, you have an intro?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Freiburg, your thoughts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
What do you do? And how do you how do you answer that? There's a really simple, there's a really simple question. If anybody who's watched any kind of science fiction or knows the history of this kind of research, which is don't do this in a population center. And what, how will you prevent it from breaking out? Like literally that's job one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
If you're going to, even if you're not going to like literally every science fiction film has this, it's like put it on an Island and there's an Island off long Island where they keep these things. I forgot the name of it is plum Island or something. Well, look it up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Let me punch up your question for you, Berg, because if your question is, what should you do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You own it. There's an idea, you own it. And you know what, like, the question really embedded in your question, Freeberg, I think is, is gain, is there any argument to doing gain of function? If so, how? And then is there any reason to research, you know, the bat dung or whatever material they get it from, you know, from those caves and take it out of the caves?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I could see the latter, Chamath, of like, hey, this existed nature. You study it on an island somewhere far away from everybody with massive controls. The gain of function seems like it literally feels like the speech from Jurassic Park. Like, I think it's not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And Jurassic Park took place on an island for a reason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's nuts. Go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And when we say we. Sorry, let me just parse that out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
How would you change it? We have to turn these things over, these organizations, or get rid of them?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Well, and then I'll just say here, I want to give a shout out to the journalists, Catherine Iban and Emily Kopp. I know that people also have no faith in journalists. These are two journalists I think you could have tremendous faith in who are going to win Pulitzers because they've been doggedly pursuing this. And you have to wonder why this is not the top story on CNN.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
the news networks and why this isn't the head of the New York Times or the Washington Post. There needs to be much more coverage of what's going on here. I don't understand why this isn't what we're talking about. Yeah, because Trump takes every headline.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
For information, you think access journalism is what's going on here. He gave them access.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And you have to lay on top of all this, Sax. It's a political environment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We needed Jon Stewart to dismantle the pangolin theory. You know, in relation to that, these wet markets have spread massive viruses and, you know, all kinds of things. And they do need to be There was like a UN report on like, hey, we have to upgrade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I don't know that it was a great cover story. I think it was a logical theory to pursue to the end point of eliminating it because they, around Wuhan, there are a lot of these wet markets. It is completely conceivable that a person who was in that lab went to a wet market and it spread via the wet market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
This is why we need a full investigation, folks, because all these theories could come together and there are more cards to turn over, which one of you alluded to, like, Who knows what the turn in the river are gonna be here? Like, what did China know? What did our government and China know? Maybe they are making bioweapons. Maybe they're doing even worse stuff that we don't know about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Maybe there's all kinds of rogue programs that are occurring here. That's why we need to keep digging and digging. The American public must hold these people accountable and they need to tell us who else was involved. Because if Fauci's involved and this guy's involved, there's other people. I want to hear from everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
They have to take ownership of this and being honest, yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
zero-based budget, zero-based budget, the whole government. Start over.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And just go right through each one. Like if, and, and you know what, it should be a bipartisan issue, but there's so much money involved. And this is one of the challenges in a capitalist system is there's so much money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
There's so much grift to go around that when something like this happens and there's an opportunity to, I don't know, make a vaccine and, and, you know, put a couple of billion dollars into this light speed thing, which was a great idea, seemingly, uh, Everybody lines up. Okay, yeah, sure. We'll get involved. We'll take some of that money. Yeah, buy a billion shots from us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
At least we're in a democracy where these hearings are occurring. I just want to give kudos to, in addition to those two journalists, to the people on this subcommittee who are doing it in a bipartisan way and they're being relentless. I think that's the honorable thing to do. I encourage them and those investigative journalists to be relentless.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I mean, profile and courage. People were like, this guy's a loon. No, Rand Paul had it right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah. From the mouths of babes. I mean, bad is, I mean, if they covered this up in the way it's looking like, I would call this behavior not bad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I mean, burn it down. I mean, that's the conclusion any logical person would come to is just burn it down. This makes no sense that they would try and cover this up. The right thing for Fauci to do is say, hey, listen, We didn't do gain of function, you know, under Obama. We did do it here. It's obviously been a mistake. We need to never do it again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And here's the roadmap to make sure that we protect people from the next one. Thank God this one didn't kill children the way it's killing old people. And by the way, this is going to crack open. I encourage you all to be vocal about this and to watch on Monday. Because Dr. Fauci is scheduled to appear in a hearing for the same subcommittee. And that is going to be explosive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Since we're in the don't trust anybody and have your own sovereignty and we're in libertarian moment, let's go to our crypto correspondent. It's Crypto Corner with Shama. Shama. So it's part of my production company. I'm now doing Crypto Corner with Chamath. That'll be next week's cold open.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Shout out to SPF.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, I mean, he was dropping money on everybody. Did you guys hear this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Give the billion to Trump. He was going to give Trump a billion to not run. Okay. And then get Tom Brady to run. I mean, this person had delusions of grandeur. He thought he was a Jedi Knight and he's like literally in Jabba's palace right now. I don't know what this, I mean, what a lunatic he was. I mean, talk about delusions of grandeur, Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
This guy thought he would just drop a billion dollars and convince somebody not to run for government. I think we're going to, I think we're going to get a regulatory, you know, back to the young people we talked about in the previous story. I think the reason they're attracted to crypto is because it doesn't have government control.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And since if you don't trust the government and you see the government over and over and over again, cover things up or the grift or make decisions that are not in your generation's best interest, why wouldn't you opt out of their financial system? And you know what? There's a lot of them and they have, and they're getting organized to your point, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think we're going to have a crypto framework and it's worth probably five points in this election. What do you think, Sax? How many points is being the pro-crypto candidate worth in this election? One, two, three points of votes? Four points? It's got to be something significant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think this is like such a great issue for political candidates to embrace. And it's just such a simple framework. I've said it a dozen times. Create a sophisticated investor test. Let a thousand flowers bloom. People can make whatever crypto projects they want. But to buy it, you just have to take a simple test like a driver's license so that you don't risk your entire net worth or whatever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
If you do, you're an informed buyer of crypto. Just make a sophisticated investor test and let's move on. Chamath, just since we're in Crypto Corner, before we leave Crypto Corner, when is my ape going to be worth money again? When will my ape go back up?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Oh, so my ape's not coming back. Okay. So I guess I shouldn't have done that. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
My coin went crazy, but that was a pump and dump scheme that we had nothing to do with. I will never sell you a coin until I do. I just want to let everybody know that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I would literally do an angel investing coin immediately if there was a framework for it. would be the greatest idea ever to have like a J coin and I could just like put it into startups that people could buy and sell it and be like this ongoing evergreen venture. Where's my J Dow? I love dow's and I love I love the idea of an angel investing coin, but man, startup coin would be brilliant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You know, I've always been a fan of Howard Stern. And his agent, Don Buckwell, called me. He saw the show last week. This is all true. And they said they want to start a production company. So I started a production company and I've already got my first show. I've signed my first show, The Pilot. What is the show? Well, here it is. Let me show you. Thanks for asking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah. Well, my friend decided to tell everybody he was going to buy some and that straight to the moon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
it's hilarious i have some uh i've only we've only bought crypto twice we have some doge uh which i bought during like the our doge phase a couple years ago and then uh my wife presently bought bitcoin you know at a very low price when everybody was talking around it around thanksgiving and uh my my heart bitcoin went phenomenal and my Doge is at breakeven now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So I've spent two years just on the pendulum. But who knows? Maybe Doge will become a thing again. I love Doge. All right, we have a bellwether of sorts here. Salesforce dropped more than 20% after reporting earnings. We should talk about the state of SaaS, software as a service, if you're not in the industry.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Salesforce had its worst day in the markets in nearly 20 years on Thursday, and that's when we taped this. They lost about $40 billion in market cap, or as we say in the industry, two figmas. On Wednesday, Salesforce missed Q1 revenue estimates for the first time since 2006. Revenue was up $9.1 billion, 11% year over year, but about $40 million below Wall Street expectations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Well, in fact, RFK believes that we shot him out of a cannon, is I think what he said, or something, and that we got the sort of candidacy going. Vivek, I think, also kind of debuted here in a major way. To be clear, All In isn't hosting the fundraiser, Sax. You and Chamath are. I'm not donating. I'm not going. Freeberg, you're not donating. I don't know if you're going or not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So they're doing great, but Wall Street is concerned for a reason. We'll get into what that is. Net income was $1.5 billion, 7x year over year because they've been doing a lot of cuts over there. Free cash flow, $6 billion, up 43%. Profits are up huge because if you remember, those activist investors came in and had Benioff
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
really rethink the structure of the business and the footprint of the business but guidance for q2 down salesforce projecting seven percent growth relatively low for them freiburg you and i were talking about this like what are your thoughts here on what's happening in the markets.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And then we had the side discussion, which we didn't dock it, but I think it's worth bringing up here in dovetailing, which is, it does seem like the consumer, which this is an enterprise story, but the economy is cooling off. Consumers, I think, are running out of money. The YOLO economy is finally... I think, at its end. What does this say to you, Freebird?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I was about to say, almost 5%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So Chamath Freiberg presented two options here. One of them, macroeconomic slowdown. The other one, hey, software... belt tightening is happening inside the enterprise and it's cheaper to make. So maybe we have a deflationary kind of situation inside companies. I guess this is adjacent, that last part of his theory is adjacent to the 80-90 mission you're on with your new startup.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think you told me you're not donating or going. Got it. Okay. You waved his hand. And so, I don't know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And maybe this, is this an or or an end in your mind, Chamath? Is it both these things? But sorry, before you answer the third point I made was that generative AI might Yes, and the third point may not be a product line, it may not be enough to charge for given all the open source tools. Yes. And there's a big question mark about the AI new software, will people pay for it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So Chamath take those three? What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
As Americans, we can do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Sachs, obviously, you made your bones in the SaaS business over the last two decades, at least. What are your thoughts here on the challenges? I just interviewed Owen McCabe from Intercom, and he says he thinks the seat model is going to change. And obviously, if there's less people at companies, there's less seats. And that may be a headwind that you just can't win against.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So maybe a consumption model has to happen or a different pricing model. But what are your thoughts on what's happening at Salesforce? And then open the aperture there and tell us what you think is going to happen in terms of how corporations either decide to make that you know build or buy decision
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I mean, I, I don't, I'm not like big into politics and the idea of giving money to politicians to me, not my thing. You know, I have, I'd rather invest in the next startup to be totally honest. If I'm going to put 50 K towards something or God forbid 250 K for me, I'll put that in a startup. That's what I like to do. But you know, everybody's different. And
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
What about the bigger picture? Open the aperture there with the SaaS versus end pricing and how many people will work at these companies. And then if the per seat model is the model, and then people are going to have less humans working at companies and do more with less, what does that mean for SaaS writ large?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
For the people who are asking me to not be friends with Sachs anymore, I'm gonna be friends with Sachs forever. We love each other. We're besties. And he can have a different opinion than me. I'm getting absolutely crucified that I'm supporting Trump and how could I be friends with Sachs? Go yourself. Sachs is my friend. We can have a difference of opinion on some topics. Deal with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Which is, I guess, a good jumping off point, which is what do we think is happening here with the economy and then interest rates?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Because the whole goal here was to get us under, you know, get us close to 2%, get rid of the free handle, at least in terms of interest going up and maybe get the consumers to not be spending so much money, which is crazy to think about, or maybe get more people laid off and have the unemployment not so low.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think that's exactly right. I think we're here. When you see that three handle, like, does it go down? You know, it's very interesting about the 2% target. I went down the rabbit hole to try to figure out that 2% target. I was like, who came up with 2% as a number? Why isn't it three or 2.5 or 1.5 or one?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's a guy in New Zealand who came up with what he thought was a good target, 2%, the world adopted it. Going back to our conversation about experts. Yeah. He just freely admits it. He's just like, yeah, I just thought 3% seemed like the right number. It wasn't too high, wasn't too low, and it's kind of healthy to have things go up in price because that means the economy's growing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's just a random target, 2%. It was his gut. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, someone's got to give. And then also, if they keep raising taxes, like their plans are, then affluent people are going to be trying to protect their assets. Who's they? Who's they? I'm just thinking like a politician, like if a politician were to raise taxes dramatically. Biden or your switcheroo candidate. I don't want you to have Biden derangement syndrome here, Sachs, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I'll see you Thursday night with my $50,000 check.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And maybe you could learn something from it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Let's do our draft. The one founders you should not bet against. Which founder would you least want to short Chamath your first in the draft? Who do you got? Who would you not want to bet against? Worst person to bet against. Sorry, what do you mean? Like founders? Any entrepreneur in history.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Barbecue sauce, okay. You picked Elon in the draft then? That's number one. Chamath, who you got? Yeah, that's easy. I would pick him too. Okay, but we got to pick somebody out. That's why it's a draft. Here we took Elon. I got to take the next person. It could be anybody. It doesn't have to be alive. It doesn't have to be in position right now. Who would I, sorry, what founder would I be?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Who would you least likely to short? An entrepreneur you'd least want to short. Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison, yours, hold on. Now, Freeberg, you get to go in the draft. Who do you got?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Bill Gates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, I said it could be any period of time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, everybody, breaking news today in the law being fair. I'm sorry, today in lawfare, depending on your view, Trump was found guilty on all 34 felony charges. You can choose your own framing here. Some say it's election interference. Some people are referring to this as the hush money porn star case. Other people are calling it the deep state lawfare case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The jury deliberated for about a day and a half. Trial lasted six weeks, including testimony from 20 witnesses. Key moment seems to have been Trump's CFO, Weisselberg, who's, I think, in jail right now for other charges, outlining the terms of the payments to Michael Cohen, the disgraced lying attorney who recorded Trump's conversations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And that's, I think, all I can tell you about this, except for maybe the sentencing is coming up. It's going to be July 11th, which is but four days before the RNC. Clearly a sad day for America. I'm not sure if anybody on the panel has any opinions on the Trump verdict, but let's just randomly start with you, David. Any thoughts on Trump being convicted of 34 felonies in this case?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Okay. If people are wondering what the case is actually about, falsifying business records, this is a pretty serious crime in New York City. Basically, when people don't keep correct records, when they're committing crimes, this is taken seriously in New York because it is the financial capital of the world. They've got a long history, whether it's, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Bernie Madoff, Enron, et cetera, of pursuing these. I don't know why this didn't get communicated well to the public, but there were obviously tons of business records falsified here. And they basically admitted to it. Michael Cohen had pleaded guilty to it already. And so it really feels like a misdemeanor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And then to understand what happened after that, there is a law in New York, as Sachs correctly pointed out, on top of the falsifying of business records, which New York takes deadly seriously, and they put this in every indictment when people do it, because they want the accountants, lawyers, CFOs to behave themselves and not cheat the public
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The election interference, also taken very seriously in New York. There's been tons of cases. Again, typically minor things, but people who do things like try to stuff ballots, et cetera. And so you put those two together. If you do falsifying, if you falsify business records and you do it as part of a second crime, which he did, which he was convicted of, Then you get these penalties.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So that is the explanation of the case. That was why he was found guilty. It's pretty easy to figure this all out. If you don't know all this, it's because you didn't take the time to read anything about the case. in terms of the basic heuristics of it, which I think is because people are burned out on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Trump has committed so many misdemeanors and crimes over time that we're kind of used to it. And, you know, my personal take on it, and I'll just leave it at this, is I think it's going to be a speeding ticket. I do think it's going to get overturned. I think Trump has done this his whole career. I lived in New York.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All these real estate guys were doing all these kind of like little ticky tacky cheating things. And I do think that this was politically motivated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Election interference. But what does that mean? You're not allowed to interfere with elections. So the theory here, which the jury unanimously voted in front of over these six or seven weeks, election interference was because Trump was in dire straits. He, after the Access Hollywood tape came out that weekend, when he admitted to assaulting women, the grab them by the blank came out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
His team, in this case, admitted, including his assistant, Michael Cohen, Allen Weisselberg, and of course, the guy from the National Enquirer, Pecker, all of them agreed, testified, and just were completely honest that this payment and the reason they bought these people off was because they were scared that it would reduce his chances of being elected. They were in panic mode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
They all testified to that. The jury found that they committed these crimes, the falsifying of business records, in order to save his election chances. So that is the legal concept. This legal concept was available to everybody for the last, you know, since it's been filed in the New York Times. Anybody who doesn't
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
read these basic things and comments on this case is just a partisan who doesn't want to accept the reality that these are actual legal concepts that are completely valid.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Now, I do think, despite all of that, and me making it abundantly clear to anybody that you don't want people falsifying business records, and you also don't want anybody interfering in elections, I do think it was politically motivated. So you've got to keep two things in your mind at the same time. It's politically motivated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Trump commits crimes regularly, often, but they tend to be tiki-taki forms.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, because I think, well, let me restate that. I think he's going to get a speeding ticket. I don't think the case is going to reverse. I think there's going to be some sort of a pardon. Now, this is a state kind of situation. So it wouldn't be Biden who would pardon it, it would be the governor.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I think what's going to happen is somebody like Trump, Teflon Don, he's called that for a reason. He gets away with it every time. He's rich, he's powerful, like all rich and powerful people. You have to really do something heinous to wind up in jail. So I think it's going to be a speeding ticket. I do think the documents cases, that one is a pretty legitimate one. with obstruction.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I do think the election interference, those are the two he should be really worried about. Because if he is found guilty on those, those are legit. But I do think this country is going to need to come together. I hate to be the bigger person here. But I do think the company, the country needs to get together and get us two new candidates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And we can't be having this lawfare and politically motivated lawsuits every time somebody loses or they're afraid of losing an election. Let me ask you a question, Jason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I think we're kind of in the same area. I think there's always been politically motivated prosecutions that have occurred. That's part of the flaw in our legal system. And I do think appeals, pardons exist as the relief valve for those things. And I think for rich and powerful people with great representation, they always get off unless they've done something incredibly, incredibly heinous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And I don't think this is incredibly heinous. And so when it's framed as simply, oh, it's a porn star, he banged a porn star, who cares? It was consensual and she got a payoff or maybe she was extorting him even. I don't know if those details were ever determined if you could frame it as extortion or not. I think none of that matters.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Like this falsifying business records thing is just something they did. They should just own it. They should have just pled it out. And it should have probably never been escalated to the next level with the election interference. I thought that was a little bit of a stretch, but not that much of a stretch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
So I think that is part of the lead in the case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, I'm not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'm going to stop you right there. No, sorry, Sachs. You don't get to say I'm giddy. I'm not going to tell you how you feel. You don't get to tell me how I feel. I actually am sad for America. I'm sad for America. that Trump and Biden are our choices.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No enthusiasm, not at all.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Listen, you know, I think Trump will continue to do these. He's had these long before he was in public office. He got tons of speeding tickets like this. He'll get them after he's out of office. He's always committed crimes. He's always done these minor things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's not going to be. It's not going to be. The obstruction case and the January 6th case, those are legit cases. They should have just gone after those because those are the ones that are completely legit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
All right, there you have it, folks. There's your quick hot take around the horn with your bestie on Trump being convicted. by a jury in New York today. It'll be sentenced on July 11th, and we'll see what happens there. The market also, after we talked about Salesforce, a bunch of the SaaS companies took a dive in the after hours. Freeberg, any thoughts there as we quickly wrap up?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
No, no, that's happening in startups right now. I'm seeing startups with four developers do what just a couple years ago, they would need eight to do there. And that's the premise of your company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, I agree. There's going to be a bit of a gap there. And I am biased because I see startups, which are always looking for the most resourceful way to do things. And you're talking about large enterprises, which are slow to adopt, right? So I think we're both to be right here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
What you are witnessing is real. The besties are not actors. The cases are real. Both parties have agreed to settle their disputes here. J-Cal production, The Rain Man's Court. Yeah, it's warfare. On today's show, Shamab guilty of first-degree unbuttoning? Friedberg accused of plastic perjury? Jason appealing his grifting conviction. Throwing the book at Thelonious Fauci.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
One thing I just want to make sure. I'm not a markets guy. I do have some information on the Dell stuff. One thing to keep in mind is they had like a 30% run-up or 20% run-up at least since NVIDIA's CEO praised them and I guess all these meme stock people just jumped in. So I think it's just like a little ticky-tacky correction back to the ticky-tacky. Zach, any final thoughts here on AI before...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We all leave to go to our, you know, Trump celebrations and or, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
There it is, folks. The banana republic. I can still be friends with you guys. All right, everybody. Four. Who's you guys? Oh, you guys. I was talking to those guys. All right. Four chamaths. Two missing buttons. We'd like to encourage everybody to enjoy their summer. Three buttons are coming. I got my short shorts on. Oh, God, that's so pasty white. I got to get my sunglasses.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
The over under on when Chamath goes for the third button is June 25th. So June 25th in the betting markets right now for the third button. Love you guys. We'll see you all next time on the World's Greatest Podcast. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Okay, last year at the All In Summit, we had a wonderful talk by Jenny Just, and they have a very cool program called Power Poker. They're holding a 2024 summer bootcamp and tournament for women only. So for the ladies out there, if you want to learn how to play poker, just like the besties and Jenny Just, You can join this four-week training class, get unlimited playing time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You play in a tournament. I'm going to come and play in one of the sessions. But here's the great part. We donated a ticket because we think it's worth encouraging women to join the poker community. And so there's a $7,500 all-in Summit 2024 ticket at stake. There's only 80 spots. Go ahead and join at pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp. pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
It's gonna fill up quick. I know a number of the women who work at my venture firm launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again, 80 spots. I think they charge 100 bucks just to make sure you show up and there's an all in summit ticket there for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search all in podcast and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post and we're gonna do a party In Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers, so look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for theallinpodcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. Three, two. Okay, everybody. Follow Saks at x.com slash davidsaks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
And check out Saks' slack killer, Glue, at glue.ai. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups. Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc., allinpodcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to athenawow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy, J-Cow, athenawow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of great follow up questions. I would love to interview Trump. I'll ask him more questions. I'll respect him as president 45 and as a candidate. So for people who like are like you have Trump derangement syndrome, like that's just like a childish thing to say. I disagree with his policies. I'll ask him questions. Hey, why don't you support EVs?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
That's a valid question to ask him. Why is he anti-EV? He said all these crazy things about EVs, and then apparently he's courting you on privately. I don't know if that's true or not. But there's hard questions, and I'm sure he'll answer them. And he's more than capable of doing it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'd love to have him on. And for me, I'll be totally honest, I think the Democrats have to wake up for a second and just take the temperature of the room. Read the room, Democrats. you have put up a candidate that nobody wants. His policies on the border and some other issues are not, you know, in sync with the majority of the country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
At some point, the Democrats just have to take a deep look in the mirror. James Carville is doing it, a bunch of them are doing it, and say, we fielded a bad candidate who's too old and people don't believe will stand up to scrutiny of, like, say, being on the all-in pod for two hours or in the debates or with a hostile interviewer, any of those possibilities. And so, I think if that's the case,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
We really need to have the Democrats think deeply about maybe fielding a different candidate. I believe that's what's going to happen in the next 30 to 60 days.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I mean, if you just look at the polls, it's 100% there'll be a switcheroo. Who's the switcheroo? I have no idea. It could be Gavin. It could be anybody. Anything's possible. I think Trump's going to demolish him in the debate. I think he'll sink to 30% in the polls, and then the Democrats will find a way to give him a graceful out, and then they'll field somebody else.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Welcome to the stand, Judge David Sacks. Hot water burn baby.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
Never too late. I'm telling him to do it. Don't take Sachs' advice. He is a hardcore partisan who wants to win desperately. Take J. Kyle's advice. Field another candidate. The worst thing the Republicans could ever deal with is a great candidate who can speak and who's nimble on their feet because I think people are looking for a choice that's not these two individuals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump verdict, COVID Cover-up, Crypto Corner, Salesforce drops 20%, AI correction?
I'm not going to say I'm anti-Trump. I'm not going to say I'm anti-Biden.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Welcome back to the all in podcast, the number one business technology and political podcast in the world. I am your host, Jay Cal, Jason Calacanis. And with us today, three of my besties. You got David Friedberg cackling over there. He is your sultan of science, previously known as the queen of quinoa, but he sold the quinoa business, made a killing in quinoa.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And you were the co-founder or the founder of LinkedIn? I don't know if you had a co-founder.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What is your take on IP in this new era? We see OpenAI, and you're not on the OpenAI board anymore, right? So you're independent of that, even though you made a big donation at some point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So you're an investor in it, and you donated to it. Actually, let's start there. What's up with that? corporate structure. How do we make sense of that? Something's a nonprofit, you donated to it, and then you invested in it, and everybody's making money and selling in secondary at $100 billion. How does that work in the world?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Co-founder of LinkedIn, now owned by Microsoft. He's got his own podcast, Masters of Scale. And he and David Sachs work together at PayPal. Welcome to the program. And give us a little story. What is your fondest memory or the most quirky memory? David Sachs and all those weirdos. I'm sorry. I'm not supposed to use the word weird anymore. I get banned on X.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
All of those unique personalities at PayPal. Tell us about that moment in time. And do you remember the first time you met David Sacks?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Okay, so let's get into some political stuff. First, I want to get the IP question, then I want to talk about Lina Khan. So how do you think about IP in this, you know, briefly in this new world? OpenAI and New York Times can't come to terms. New York Times caught them red-handed, cookie jar, according to their lawsuit, having indexed a ton of their content.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's pretty crystal clear that their content's behind a paywall, and that's how they make money. I also subscribe to ChatGPT. I give them 20 bucks a month, maybe 30 bucks a month for every employee in my firm. And I get New York Times content from there all the time. I will ask it, what is the wire cut I think is the best choice in chat GPT? I get that. And then I get the answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I don't need my New York Times subscription. I don't visit the New York Times anymore. Feels pretty clear cut to me. But how do you think about IP? Should an LLM be able to ingest whatever they please? Or should they be required to get permission in advance and pay a royalty to content creators? Reid Hoffman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's a pretty messy subject, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Great pivot, Chamath, into Lena Kahn. I think one of the things that is quite paradoxical about your relationship with David Sachs is you both agree on something in politics, which is Lena Kahn, And her concepts around future competition and maybe how she's running this issue for the United States is leading to basically a freeze on the market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
We're seeing weird deal structures like some of the ones we're talking about here that could have just been acquisitions. And I'm curious your thoughts on What she, you know, this sort of breakup of Google, now we're seeing that emerge at the same time that they're facing the biggest existential crisis of their career, which is language models competing with them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I mean, I would say half of my Google searches have already moved to chat GPT-like services. So what's your take on Lena Kahn's approach to M&A? And what impact, if it's continued and sustained, will that have on capital allocation? Because I don't know what happened to the single and double M&A market, but it seems to be completely gone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Everything from Adobe and Figma to other mergers that could be happening are essentially frozen. So what's your take?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I saw you on CNN where they were like, are you telling Kamala and Biden what they have to do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tesla is now over 500 billion, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I saw you, I think it was a Jake Tapper who kind of grilled you on it. I thought you did an exceptional job of just saying, listen, I made a donation. This is how I feel about it. But obviously, she's going to do what she wants to do. And that's just how politics works. So I thought that was actually pretty well done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I actually appreciate you fighting for more M&A because it would be great for the industry. Zach, you want to throw up a political topic here or you want me to- Well, no, just to stick on Lena Kahn for a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
David, tell us your first memory of meeting Reid Hoffman. Would you remember where you were? Do you remember the conversation?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah. In Europe now, you can.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Also with us back from Italy, back from Italy, Chamath Palihapitiya. He's at 67% button. And he's not happy about it. But the hair looks great. You still got a little sea salt from the yachting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What were you like, 28, 27, 29? No, I mean, let's see. This would have been-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
More stylish. They're prettier. I kind of like your approach, though, with the App Store. If you were to think of least harm to the ecosystem, Epic Games has their own App Store for games. They charge 88%. I'm sorry, they give developers 88%. They only take 12. And forcing Apple to allow a startup to do an App Store would solve the entire problem. And it seems like that's where it's going to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And all five of us would invest instantly in an App Store that would say 0%. take rate, and all advertising based. What a great idea that would be.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tell us like a moment read that is incredibly memorable to you from that PayPal era, you know, some existential moment or one of the more difficult or funny moments, late night moments that would be indicative of that era and whatever was in the water that drew all that talent to one place.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Right. Well, okay. That's a good segue. Right. Let's talk about the five cases against Trump. There are five lawsuits against Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What did you think of Kamala's handling of that issue in her speech? She basically... seemed to, I don't know, say both sides of it, but she said, hey, you can believe that the people of Gaza should be treated more humanely and that, you know, Israel has a right to defend herself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It's disqualifying for me, for sure. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I think we got your position on it. It's stupid. I want to finish.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah, I mean, deporting 10 million people would be an example on the right, and taking away a woman's right to choose would be the other one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, no, but I'm talking about him already doing it. He already overturned what he would. I'm talking about that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah, no, it's a state issue. And Trump succeeded in taking away a woman's right to choose in Texas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Well, I mean, he is decisive, that's for sure. All right, well, let's get into it. We want, you know, we're going to go a little bit mullet here, Friedberg. We're going to start with business and then maybe we'll have a...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Do you think she's a moderate or do you think she's a socialist, you know, going to take the country very far left?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Did you bring any of the sea salt back with you from the Mediterranean? Put it in a little bottle to spray or no?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, yes, the legendary Antonio's Nuthouse.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Well, let me ask you about that formally here. There are five cases against Trump You have the insurrection case. You have the New York taxes case. You have the hush money case. You have the E. Jean Carroll case. And what am I missing there? Oh, and the documents case. You funded, like Peter Thiel funded the Gawker case, the E. Jean Carroll case, which Trump lost.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
He got whacked at the Nuthouse? Were the pool tables in the back he whacked at or in the books in the front?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And just to ask you, why did you choose to fund that? And do you believe Trump sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So there are four other trials.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Okay, so Reid, there's four other cases, two of them Trump's been convicted in, two of them are outstanding. What's your take on the four cases? You've heard Sachs' take.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
There's three. Alvin Bragg was convicted. And then the Trump organization with the CFO committing tax fraud. He was convicted in that one as well. Or the Trump organization was convicted. And people say that's lawfare by Letitia James. So guilty, guilty, guilty in those three of five. So what's your take on the four that we haven't discussed yet and heard your opinion on Hoffman?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Antonio's Dunn House is, yeah, the most unhygienic bar in the Bay Area. And then that's a pretty low benchmark. Let's just leave it at that. We'll start with some business here, talk a little AI. And then since two of our panelists have a passion We'll do the party, political parties, at the end.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Everybody knows Reid was a co-founder of Inflection AI and as a general partner at Greylock and one of the founding investors also in OpenAI. There's a good story there, I'm sure. And we just got results, Reid, from NVIDIA. Results were good. They beat across the board. Stock was down after hours. Analysts said probably profit-taking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Hey, Bobby Kennedy is here. Mr. Kennedy, it's great to have you on the all-in podcast for a second time. May I introduce you to Reid Hoffman, who you may know of, but I don't think you two have ever met.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Mr. Kennedy, you dropped out of the race. Perhaps you could tell us, and I was quite disappointed about it. I really wanted to see a third-party candidate get into double digits again. I just want to commend you on the effort that you put into it. Maybe you could tell the audience why you, as a reported never-Trumper, joined the Trump team and dropped out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, okay. Great. And have you showered in the last week or is it still, you got the Mediterranean glove?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Putting that aside, we've never seen a chart like this in the history of business, I would say. Data center revenue, 26.3 billion, 87% of their revenue now. You remember NVIDIA started obviously with video games and didn't have a major data center business. That has exploded. Net income, 16.6 billion. Gross margin, 75%. And here's your chart.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
On a total basis, NVIDIA's revenue scale up is basically unlike anything we've seen. But if you look, their quarter-over-quarter revenue over the past couple of years, things are starting to cool off significantly after that giant boom. Bree, what's your take on NVIDIA's just incredible run here? Is it sustainable? Will they have competitors?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So, Bobby, let me ask you a question. You are reportedly a never-Trumper. There's massive fallout you cited personally for you as a resident of Malibu, the extremely talented woman you're married to. Based on everything I can tell, maybe not a fan of Trump, so this is maybe causing some domestic and some local town issues for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Tell me about your journey from a never-Trumper, all your friends are, I think, never-Trumpers, to now joining with Trump. That's gotta be a hard decision, no?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And do you think this build-out, this massive build-out we're seeing from startups to sovereigns to Microsoft, which you're on the board of, Google, Apple, et cetera, is this sustainable and is this going to keep going?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
See, that's the problem. You were showering in the Mediterranean.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Clearly, it's definitely a challenging thing to go from your family being the bedrock of the Democratic Party and Trump being obviously seen as an existential risk by the Democratic Party. So what should Americans know about the state of politics and fairness in America based on what you've learned? What do you want the American people to know about the process of selecting a president?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What should parents know about your thoughts on how to raise kids in a healthy way, make America healthy again? Are there any vaccines that you would say you would advise parents to take for their kids? And how should they look at the industrial food complex? If you were sitting with us as parents, just having lunch, what would you tell us we should do with our own kids?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
R.J.R. Nabisco, you're referring to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Freeberg, when you hear this, some people might say, this sounds like a grand conspiracy theory. But Much of it rings true to, I think, many of us who are parents watching kids, you know, and watching the prevalence of obesity, watching pharmaceutical drugs to counter that and all the money that's made from it. And then seeing when people eat clean and they're healthy, maybe there's less there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So, Freeberg, when you hear Bobby's position here as a scientist who sold a company to Monsanto, climate.com, and who's working on food today. What rings true about what Bobby's saying and what do you disagree with, if anything?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So yeah, there's growth left, competition is coming. And this is probably not the type of stock you would want to short at this moment in time. Freeberg, what are your thoughts on this build out, as well as the software build out that's occurring? And when do you think we're going to see some competition come into the space?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I'm talking about in government and private industry. You don't think people in private industry are trying to make addicting foods?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I think this is the key point you're making, Chamath. I think your clean food effort, and it took me a decade to unravel me eating everything in sight and lose the 40 pounds.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
But Chamath, when you hear sort of this back and forth between Bobby and Friedberg, what's your take on it in terms of, and also the European lifestyle that you live for 10 weeks of the year, what's your take on what should happen here and how Bobby can be successful? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I'm curious what you think of Ozempic and this category of drugs breaking the cycle. I think you've been against them or they certainly helped me with half of my weight loss. I know Saks had a good experience as well and he's been public about it. What are your thoughts on that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Because it does seem when people take the GLPs, which exist in your body, that they, I'm sure there's more research that needs to be done, they do break this habit. I know anecdotally with me, I don't crave the foods I craved previously, and it did kind of rewire my brain in how I look at food, even when I'm off of it. So your thoughts on those and those potentially being a way to break the cycle?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Sacks, any questions for you for Bobby about democracy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
went down with biden the fairness of the democratic party i know you've got some strong feelings on it so i just want to give you your red meat in your window here i'm sure a lot of it's confirming for you what he's saying um and you know i'll be honest i think what the democratic party did to you mr kennedy was absolutely abhorrent and disgusting and it it really is um infuriating to me especially what the mainstream media did
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And I'm glad that we got to have you on early on our podcast, at least to let some of your ideas get out there. But let's give Sachs this red meat here because you joining Trump is a wild card. I don't think any of us saw it coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
You said God Almighty.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It would be great if you could get to him because, you know, he really did present well on this podcast and had like a very good moment in that first half of the RNC. And then he started defaulting back to, and I know a lot of it's like myself, hate this about him. And it's a big part of why we don't like him is he goes back to incel comics, goes back to race, goes back to gender.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And it's just like, dude, we that Trump 1.0 is what people don't want. They don't want chaotic Trump. They want, you know, post assassination attempt Trump. And it's just so infuriating.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Good news is I'm in Texas, so I can put in my Bobby Kennedy vote as a protest vote and it doesn't make a difference.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Anyway, that's... Well, I mean, Kamala and Waltz will do an interview with Dana Bash tonight, the night we're taping this on Thursday. So we'll see. Maybe she'll miraculously do 10 podcasts and she'll be dynamic. But it certainly doesn't look good that they filibustered with Biden and gave him only most favored nation interviews.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I do respect the fact that we've had so many great candidates come on this pod and have 90-minute, two-hour discussions. I'm very proud of the work we've done here. And Bobby, you were a key piece of that. And we really appreciate you coming on early and having these debates and coming here today to talk about it. Just...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
means the world for you to come back and talk about this wish you great success with make america healthy again i think it's incredibly noble independent of how i feel about trump january 6th abortion any of those issues i respect the fact that you want to make america healthy again uh and i wish you great continued success with that and we will see you all next time on the podcast bye
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And now, the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles, September 8th, 9th, and 10th. You can apply for tickets, summit.allinpodcast.co. And you can subscribe to this show on YouTube. Yes, watch all the videos. Our YouTube channel has passed 500,000 subscribers. Shout out to Donnie from Queens. Follow the show, x.com slash the all-in pod. TikTok, the all-in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Instagram, the all-in pod. LinkedIn, search for all-in podcast. And to follow Chamath, he's x.com slash Chamath. Sign up for his weekly email. What I read this week at chamath.substack.com and sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and see what all the excitement is about. Follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs and sign up for Glue at glue.ai. Follow Friedberg, x.com slash friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. I am the world's greatest moderator, Jason Calacanis. If you are a founder and you want to come to my accelerators and my programs, founder.university, launch.close.apply to apply for funding from your boy, JCal, for your startup. And check out athenowow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
This is the company I am most excited about at the moment, athenowow.com, to get a virtual assistant for about $3,000 a month. I have two of them. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. You can help by telling just two friends. That's all I ask. Forward. this podcast to two friends and say, this is the world's greatest podcast. You got to check it out. It'll make you smarter.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
It'll make you laugh, laugh while learning. We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What do you think about the open source movement versus closed source? You were one of the original donators to OpenAI. You were originally on the board. And there's a couple of ways to go with this question, but I just want to start with Forget about the corporate structure over there. We'll get to that in a second. But I want to talk specifically about open source.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Meta's obviously far behind OpenAI, far behind Google, Microsoft. So they went open source. When you're behind, you go open source, I guess is the idea here. But they're making some big progress. Who do you think is going to win this ultimately? An open source provider of LLMs or proprietary closed source like OpenAI is? And it's confounding to say OpenAI is closed, but closed AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Reid Hoffman & Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Back in business mode. He's in business casual mode. He went from casual... To business. Okay. And with us, of course, the Dark Knight himself. Yeah, the Rain Man, David Sachs. And we have a bestie guestie for you folks. Friend of my other pod, This Week in Startups, Reid Hoffman is here. And you know him as a venture capitalist board member at Microsoft.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Okay. So we can have a really interesting conversation here. I did something on my other podcast, This Week in Startups, that I'll show you right now. That was crazy yesterday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I am using a one preview. Now let me show you what I did here. Just so the audience can level set here. If you're not watching us go to YouTube and type in all in and you can you can watch us we do video here. So I was analyzing, you know, just some early stage deals and cap tables and I put in here, hey, a startup just raised some money at this valuation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Here's what the friends and family invested the accelerator, the seed investor, etc. In other words, like the history, the investment history in a company. what O1 does distinctly differently than the previous versions. And the previous version, I felt, was three to six months ahead of competitors. This is a year ahead of competitors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And so here, Chamath, if you look, it said it thought for 77 seconds. And if you click the down arrow, Sax, what you'll see is it gives you an idea of what its rationale is for interpreting and what secondary queries it's doing
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Well, I mean, this is a great. Whoa, we lost somebody. Whoa. What's happening? Wait, what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And by the way, what this did was what prompt engineers were doing or prompt engineering websites were doing, which was trying to help you construct your question. And so if you look to this one, it says listing disparities, I'll compile a cap table with investments, evaluations, building the cap table, accessing the share evaluation, breaking down ownership, breaking down ownership,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
etc, evaluating the terms, and then it checks its work a bit, it waits investment options. And you can see this is a this is fired off like two dozen different queries to as Freiberg correctly pointed out, you know, build this chain. And it got incredible answers, explain the form is so it's thinking about what your next question would be.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And this when I share this with my team, it was like a super game changer. Sachs, you had some thoughts here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Wow, they're just all gone. Wait, oh no, don't worry, he's replacing everybody. Here we go. He's replacing with the G700, a Bugatti, and I guess Sam's got mountains of cash. So don't worry, he's got a backup plan, Shamaz.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Anyway, as an industry and as leaders in the industry, the show sends its regards to Sam and the OpenAI team on their tragic losses and congratulations on the $150 billion valuation and your 7%. Sam now just cashed in $10 billion apparently. So congratulations to friend of the pod, Sam Oman. Is the round done?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
This is such a good point, Freeberg. The ad hoc piece of it, when we're processing 20,000 applications for funding a year, we do 100 plus meetings a week. The analysts on our team are now putting in the transcripts and key questions about markets, and they are getting so smart so fast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
that, you know, when somebody comes to them with a marketplace in diamonds, their understanding of the diamond marketplace becomes so rich so fast that we can evaluate companies faster than we're also seeing Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Before we call our lawyers, when we have a legal question about a document, we start putting in, you know, let's say the the standard note template or the standard safe template, we put in the new one. And there's a really cool project by Google called notebook LL, LM, where you can put in multiple documents, and you can start asking questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
So imagine you take every single legal document sacks that Yammer had when you had Chamath as an investor, I'm not sure if he's on the board. And you can start asking questions about the documents. And we have had people make changes to these documents, and it immediately finds and explains them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And so everybody's just getting so goddamn smart, so fast using these tools, that I insisted that every person on the team when they hit control tab, It opens a chat GPT-4 window in 01, and we burned out our credits immediately. It stopped us. It said, you have to stop using it for the rest of the month. Chamath, your thoughts on this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Is all of that done? I mean, it's reportedly allegedly that he's going to have 7% of the company and we can jump right into our first story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
All right. Your thoughts, Sax. You operate in the SaaS space with System of Records and investing in these type of companies. Give us your take.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I'm going to be okay, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
According to reports, this round is contingent on not being a non-profit anymore and sorting that all out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
In fairness, app stores are a great way to allow people to build on your platform and cover those niche cases.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Can you talk about his philanthropy first? Okay, let's get back to focus here. Let's get focused, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
So is mainstream media? We trust the mainstream media in this case because it aligns with Sachs' interest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Right. Yeah. That's the very interesting piece for me is I'm, you know, watching startups, you know, working on this, the AI first ones, I think are going to come to it with a totally different cost structure. The idea of paying for seats. And I mean, some of these seats are 5,000 per person per year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Yeah, this is always a tough one. This year, we tragically lost giants in our industry. These individuals bravely honed their craft at OpenAI before departing. Ilya Suskiver, he left us in May. Jan Laika, also left in May. John Shulman tragically left us in August.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
A lot of startups now are doing consumption-based pricing. So they're saying, you know, how many... How many sales calls are you doing? How many are we analyzing as opposed to how many sales executives do you have? Because when you have agents, as we're talking about, those agents are going to do a lot of the work. So we're going to see the number of people working at companies become fixed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And I think the static team size that we're seeing at a lot of large companies is only going to continue. It's going to be down and to the right. And if you think you're going to get a high-paying job at a big tech company, And you have to beat the agent. You're going to have to beat the maestro who has five agents working for them. I think this is going to be a completely different world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I want to get back to OpenAI with a couple of other pieces.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Last word for you. Last word.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
This has been speculated for months. The $150 billion valuation raising something in the range of $6 to $7 billion. If you do the math on that, and Bloomberg is correct, that Sam Altman got his 7%. I guess that would be $10 billion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Well, I mean, right between the two of you, I think is the truth, because what's happening is if you look at investing, it's very hard to get into these late stage companies because they don't need as much capital. Because to your point, Shamath, they when they do hit profitability with 10 or 20 people, the revenue per employee is going way up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
If you look at Google, Uber, Airbnb, and Facebook meta, they have the same number or less employees than they did three years ago, but they're all growing in that 20 to 30% a year, which means in but two to three years, each of those companies has doubled revenue per employee.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
So that concept of more efficiency, and then that trickles down, Sachs, to the startup investing space where you and I are. I'm a pre-seed seed investor, you're a seed series A investor. If you don't get in in those three or four rounds, I think it's going to be really expensive, and the companies are not going to need as much money downstream.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
He's not in it for the money. He has health insurance tax. Yeah. Is it Congress?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I don't need money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I just needed the health insurance. Pull the clip up, Nick. Pull the clip up. I mean, it's the funniest clip ever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
You make a lot of money, do you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
All right. And before we get to our first story there about OpenAI, congratulations to Chamath. Let's pull up the photo here. He was a featured guest. On the Alex Jones show. No, sorry. I'm sorry. That would be Joe Rogan. Congratulations on coming to Austin and being on Joe Rogan. What was it like to do a three-hour podcast with Joe Rogan?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Really? That's interesting. You need a lawyer. I need a what? You need a lawyer or an agent. I'm doing this because I love it. That's the greatest. Look at me. Don't believe him. Can I ask you a question there, Sax?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Are you doing this venture capital where you put the money in the startups because you love it or because you're looking to get another home in a coastal city and put more jet fuel in that plane? I need an answer for the people of the sovereign state of Mississippi.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
He's hysterical, actually.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
You might need to get yourself one of them fancy agents from Hollywood or an attorney from the Wilson-Sonsini Corporation to renegotiate your contract, son, because you're worth a lot more from what I can gather in your performance today than just some simple health care. And I hope you took the Blue Cross Blue Shield.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And you let the donators get first bite of the apple if you do convert. Because remember, Vinod and Hoffman got all their shares on the conversion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Freeberg, you've been a little quiet here. Any thoughts on the transaction, the nonprofit to for-profit? If you were looking at that in what you're doing, do you see a way that Ohalo could take a nonprofit status, raise a bunch of money through donations for virtuous work, then license those patents to your for-profit? Would that be advantageous to you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
It's been done a couple times. The Mozilla Foundation did it. We talked about that in a previous episode. Sax, you want to wrap us up here on the corporate structure? Any final thoughts? I mean, Elon put in $50 million. I think he gets the same as Sam. Don't you think he should just chip off 7% for Elon?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Not that Elon needs the money where he's asking, but I'm just wondering why Elon doesn't get the 7% and get, or, you know, if they're going to redo this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
He put in $50 million is the report, right? In the nonprofit. Yeah. Hoffman put in $10.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Clearly is the limitation of this podcast is the other three of us. Finally, you have found a way to make it about yourself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Also known as moderation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Yeah. And in fairness to Vinod, he bought that incredible beachfront property and donated it to the public trust so we can all surf and have our Halloween party there. So it's all good. Thank you, Vinod, for giving us that incredible beach. I want to talk to you guys about interfaces that came up, Chamath, in your headwinds or your four pack of reasons that
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
you know, open AI, when you steal men, the bear case could have challenges. Obviously, we're seeing that. And it is emerging that meta is working on some AR glasses that are really impressive. Additionally, I've installed iOS 18, which is Apple intelligence that works on 15 phones and 16 phones. 18 is the iOS. Did any of you install the beta of iOS 18 yet and use Siri?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
It's pretty clear with this new one that you're going to be able to talk to Siri as an LLM, like you do in ChatGPT mode, which I think means they will not make themselves dependent on ChatGPT, and they will siphon off half the searches that would have gone to ChatGPT.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
He's like, no, stop, stop, stop, stop.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
But what I will say is there are features of it where if you squint a little bit, you will see that Siri is going to be conversational. So when I was talking to it with music and, you know, you can have a conversation with it and do math like you can do with the ChatGPT version. And you have Microsoft Teams. doing that with their copilot. And now Matt is doing it at the top of each one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
So everybody's going to try to intercept the queries and the voice interface. So chat GPT, four is now up against meta, Siri, Apple and Microsoft for that interface, it's going to be challenging. But let's talk about these meta glasses here. Meta showed off the AR glasses that Nick will pull up right now. These aren't goggles. Goggles look like ski goggles.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
That's what Apple is doing with their Vision Pro. Or when you see the MetaQuest, you know how those work. Those are VR with cameras that will create a version of the world. These are actual chunky sunglasses, like the ones I was wearing earlier when I was doing the bit. So these let you operate in the real world and are supposedly extremely expensive. They made a thousand prototypes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
They were letting a bunch of influencers and folks like Gary Vaynerchuk use them and they're not ready for primetime. But the way they work Freeburg is there's a wristband that will track your fingers and your wrist movement. So you could be in a conversation like we are here on the pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And below the desk, you could be you know, moving your arm and hand around to be doing replies to I don't know, incoming messages or whatever it is. What do you think of this AR vision of the world and meta making this progress?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Is that because he's... It's just a Texas short podcaster who's short and stout and they look similar. So it's just a... But I mean, it looks like Alex Jones started lifting weights, actually. No, they're both... The same height and yeah, both have podcasts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Chamath, any thoughts on Facebook's progress with AR and how that might impact computing and interfaces when paired with language models.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I think you're on this one wrong, Chamath, because I saw this revolution in Japan maybe 20 years ago. They got obsessed with augmented reality. There were a ton of startups right as they started getting to the mobile phones. And the use cases were really very compelling. And we're starting to see them now in education.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And when you're at dinner with a bunch of friends, how often does picking up your phone and you know, looking at a message disturb the flow? Well, people will have glasses on, they'll be going for walks, they'll be driving, they'll be at a dinner party, they'll be with their kids.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And you'll have something on like focus mode, you know, whatever the equivalent is in Apple, and a message will come in from your spouse or from your child, but you won't have to take your phone out of your pocket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And I think once these things weigh a lot less, you're going to have four different ways to interact with your computer in your pocket, your phone, your watch, your AirPods, whatever you have in your ears and the glasses. And I bet you glasses are going to take like a third of the tasks you do. I mean, what is the point of taking out your phone and watching the Uber come to you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
But seeing that little strip that tells you the Uber is 20 minutes away, 15 minutes away, or what the gate number is. I don't have that anxiety. Well, I don't know if it's anxiety, but I just think it's ease of use.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I think it adds up. I think taking your phone out of your pocket 50 times a day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Two of them, in fact.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Okay, Zach, do you have any thoughts on this impressive demo or the demo that people who've seen have said is pretty darn compelling?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
What, they don't look good? You don't like them? Nick, can you please find a picture of Eugene Levy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
But didn't he also do Survivor or one of those? And then the UFC. I mean, this guy's got four distinct careers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Based Zuck is the best Zuck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think he got the UFC out of Fear Factor and being a UFC fighter and a comedian. And there's like a famous story where like, Dana White was pursuing him. And he was like, I don't know. And then Dana White's like, I'll send a plane for you. You can bring your friends. He's like, okay, fine, I'll do it. He did it for free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
You idiot. Oh, fine. He's buying them. He got version one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And then Dana White pursued him heavily to become the voice of the UFC. And yeah, obviously, it's grown tremendously. And it's worth billions of dollars. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
I just want to point out like the form factor you're seeing now is going to get greatly reduced. These were some of the early Apple. I don't know if you guys remember these, but Frog Design made these crazy tablets in the 80s. that were the eventual inspiration for the iPad, you know, 25 years later, I guess. And so that's the journey we're on here right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
This clunky, and these are not functional prototypes, obviously.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And there was an interesting waypoint. Microsoft had the first tablets. Here's the Microsoft tablet for those of you watching. That came, you know... I don't know, this was the late 90s or early 2000s, Friedberg, if you remember it. These like incredibly bulky tablets that Bill Gates was bringing to all the events.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
All right. OpenAI, as we were just joking in the opening segment, is trying to convert into a for-profit benefit corporation. That's a B Corp. It just means, we'll explain B Corp later.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
So you get a lot of false starts. They're spending, I think, close to $20 billion a year on this ARVR stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
This is the convergence of like three or four really interesting technological waves. All right, just dovetailing with tech jobs and the static team size, there is a report of a blue-collar boom. The tool belt generation is what Gen Z is being referred to as. A report in the Wall Street Journal reports, hey, tech jobs have dried up. We're all seeing that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And according to Indeed, developer jobs down within 30% since February of 2020, pre-COVID, of course. If you look at layoffs that FYI, you'll see all the, you know, tech jobs that have been eliminated since 2022, over a half million of them, bunch of things at play here. And the Wall Street Journal notes that entry level tech workers are getting hit the hardest
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
especially all these recent college graduates. And if you look at a historical college enrollment, let's pull up that chart, Nick, you can see your undergraduate, graduate and total with the red line, we peaked at 21 million people in either graduate school or undergraduate in 2010. And that's come down to 8.6 million.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
At the same time, obviously, in the last 12 years, you've had the population has grown. So this is even, you know, if it was a percentage basis would be even more dramatic. So what's behind this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
A poll of 1,000 teens this summer found that about half believe a high school degree, trade program, or two-year degree best meets their career needs, and 56% said real-world on-the-job experience is more valuable than obtaining a college degree, something you've talked about with your own personal experience, Chamath, at Waterloo. doing apprenticeships, essentially.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Your thoughts on Generation Tool Belt?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
A benefit corporation is a C-Corporation variant that is not a non-profit, but the board of directors, Sachs, is required not only to be a fiduciary for all shareholders, but also for the stated mission of the company. That's my understanding of a B-Corp, am I right? Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Saks, your thoughts on this generation tool belt we're reading about and, you know, the sort of combination with static team size that we're seeing in technology, companies keeping the number of employees the same or trending down while they grow 30% year over year?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Friedberg, is this like just the pendulum swung too much and education got too expensive, spending 200K to make $50,000 a year distinctly different than our childhoods, or I'm sorry, our adolescence when we were able to go to college for 10K a year, 20K a year, graduate with some low tens of thousands in debt if you did take debt, and then your entry-level job was 50, 60, 70K coming out of college.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
What are your thoughts here? Is this a value issue with college?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And it's a way to, I guess, signal to investors, the market employees that you care about something more than just profit. So famous, most famous B Corp, I think is Tom's. Is that the shoe company, Tom's? That's a famous B Corp. Somebody will look it up here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Don't stop, Friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Patagonia. Yeah, that falls into that category. So for profit with a mission. Reuters has cited anonymous sources close to the company, that the plan is still being hashed out with lawyers and shareholders and the timeline isn't certain. But what's being discussed is that the nonprofit will continue to exist as a minority shareholder in the new company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Why do you have that? I want to play some Zach Bryan songs, and he's got a couple songs I like with a harmonica in them. So I just got a harmonica. My daughter and I have been playing harmonica, yeah. Are you teaching yourself?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Let's hear it. I'll play it next week. I'm deep in the laboratory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
It could be a bit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Be a little shy. He's a little shy. No, no, I'll write a Trump song for you. I'll do the trials and tribulations of Donald Trump, and I'll do a little Bob Dylan send-up song for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
That means something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
You understand too soon there is no chance of dying. Yeah, that's an incredible clip. All right, you guys want to wrap or you want to keep talking about more stuff? We were at 90 minutes here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
How much of a minority shareholder, I guess, is the devil's in the detail there. Do they own 1% or 49%? The very much discussed Friedberg 100x profit cap for investors will be removed That means investors like Vinod, friend of the pod, and Reid Hoffman, also friend of the pod, could see a 100x turn into 1,000x or more.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Oh, well, it's time for a very emotional segment we do here on the all in podcast. I just got to get myself composed for this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
According to the Bloomberg report, Sam Waltman's going to get his equity finally 7%. That would put him at around $10.5 billion, if this is all true. And OpenAI could be valued as high as $150 billion. We'll get into all the shenanigans. But let's start with your question, Freeberg. And since you asked it, I'm going to boomerang it back to you. Make the bull case for $150 billion valuation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Jared Sof left on Wednesday. Bob McGrew also left on Wednesday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
And Mira Marotti also left us tragically on Wednesday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
SACS. Here's a chart of open areas revenue growth that has been piecemeal together from various sources at various times. But you'll see here they are reportedly as of June of 2024, on a $3.4 billion run rate for this year, after hitting $2 billion in 23, $1.3 billion in October of 23. And then back in 2022, it's reported they only had $28 million in revenue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
So this is a pretty big streak here in terms of revenue growth. I would put it at 50 times top line revenue, $150 billion valuation. You want to give us the bear case, maybe, or the bull case?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Yeah. And Greg Brockman is on extended leave.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Thank you for your service. Your memories will live on as training data. And may your memories be a vesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Okay, Chamath, do us a favor here. If there is a bear case, what is it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Love you guys. Queen of Kinwa. I'm doing all in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
OpenAI's $150B conversion, Meta's AR glasses, Blue-collar boom, Risk of nuclear war
Okay, I think this is very well put. And I have been using... ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini exclusively. I stopped using Google Search. And I also stopped, Sax, asking people on my team to do stuff before I asked ChatGPT to do it, specifically Freebird, the 01 version. And the 01 version is distinctly different. Have you gentlemen been using 01 like on a daily basis?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Not this specific thing. I think that when you see... a broad-based set of revenue misses, that that will kind of mean that the consumer is really under pressure. I still think that that's more in the fall, but we're headed in that direction. I think what happened here is that the market is just priced to perfection, and all of a sudden, we had all kinds of volatility.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You had the former president almost assassinated. You have the current sitting president resign. You have a somewhat convoluted process to pick who replaced him that at a minimum was opaque. And all of these things create doubt and anxiety in people the people that own financial assets. And so if you saw the volatility index, the VIX, that has spiked.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And so whenever you see that stuff happen, people go risk off, right? And when you go risk off, what do you sell? You sell the things that are deepest in the money where you think that they probably don't have that much more room to run. And that was the MAG7. And so what you actually saw was a huge rotation out of those companies into everything but those seven names.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Hey, did you announce that you've moved to Texas?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I think that that's a pretty reasonable thing to do. So I think we're in the part of the cycle where people are getting a little bit more sober and risk managing. We're also in the middle of the summer where a lot more vacation is taken, which how it manifests is that people tend to be, frankly, more risk off and be more liquid because a lot of people are in and out of the office.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I think the real setup is for what happens in September. Maybe there's a cut, which will help. Maybe there isn't, which won't help. And then the whole consumer cycle, the consumer credit cycle, that doesn't look good, to be honest. And so I think the fall is going to be complicated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I find this so fascinating and reinforces a bunch of intuition that I think we would probably all have. Have you guys seen these studies where when somebody has an amputation or they get paralyzed, they study their
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
three levels of happiness, their interim level of happiness, and then they just kind of mean revert to their natural state of happiness, independent of what physical calamity they may have gone through. And when you were talking about it, Jake, I was reacting in the same way, which is in the absence of, I think, purpose and community, I think children in many cases,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
it just doesn't meaningfully shift any of these curves that really matter. I think your happiness levels mean revert. I think your health levels mean revert. So it's great to kind of confirm at least my intuition, which is that UBI is a wonderful idea that I think doesn't really understand how humans are both motivated and wired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
How is it going so far? It's super hot, isn't it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
But that's totally reasonable. I grew up on welfare. Yeah. And we needed it to make ends meet. And we would have completely fallen through the cracks without it. And so I'm glad that I was able to be raised in a country that has welfare.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
No, because I think you need to be motivated, as Zach said. And so even though we got...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
support from i grew up in canada so the canadian government there was still an expectation where certain things were not covered and you still had to work and so you had to find motivation to pick yourself up and go out and get a job and it just so happened that in our situation even welfare and what my mom made as a housekeeper and then as a nurse to say it wasn't enough and my dad didn't have a job so i went and i started working at burger king and to sax's point
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
It's pretty eye-opening when you're 14 years old and you're working the night shift and people come in after going to the bars, they're drunk, they're puking all over the place. Sometimes you see people that go to your own high school And it's a little bit embarrassing because you're working while they're going out. But at the end of the day, it was very motivating. And I think Sax is right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
If you take that away from people, I think that you end up with a worse society. I don't think that you have a motivated group of people that want to go and better themselves. I think they just become really lazy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I think the problem is not the entry-level job. I think it's the expectation of people. And Freeberg just mentioned this, but what you have is that there is this desired doom loop that we've fallen ourselves into, where what social media does is amplify in many cases, a fake perception of what your neighbor has that you don't have. And so you're in this constant desire doom loop.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So if you go to a job and you're expected to work for four years, I'm just going to make up a number before you get promoted. And the perception is that your neighbor is getting promoted after eight months, you're going to be mad and you're going to be angry and you're going to feel like life isn't working out for you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And we have to figure out a way of resetting that back to normal so that you know that that is a lie that is being told to get clicks and likes. And the real truth is you're going to have to just put your nose down and grind at something to get what you want. And life is not perfect and it's complicated and it's messy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The closest thing to leisure and leisurely pursuits that we have today in modern society is the Nepo baby. And if you look at the, no, but, and if you look at the Nepo baby, they're the most miserable group of people I've ever met. They're so unhappy with themselves. And so, and part of it is because they've only ever lived a life. Shout out to Alex Soros. No, I'm not name-checking anyone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I'm just saying when I observe it, I think that you can see it right in front of you, which is that there's just so much inherent unhappiness because you're not motivated to do anything. And then that's amplified typically by... guilty parents because they've been working so hard. I don't think you need to run a second study.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
A different version of an idea that friend of the pod, Brad Gerstner, is working on, which I think deserves a shout out, is this idea of giving every kid when they're born a retirement account. I think that that's a really interesting idea where you give them some amount of money and it just matures inside of an index fund that gets unlocked for you when that kid is 65 or 70 years old.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's great because it helps you have a soft landing in retirement. I think that that's very humane and a right thing to do, but it doesn't rob you of that motivation to work in your 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. And that's a much better idea than UBI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Man, I think probate and wills and trusts are of the devil's making. Nothing good comes out of these things. And I don't know, I just think some of these assets should just be left to shareholders. Just sell them. Or just sell them and take the money, give it to the kids. Hopefully you raise good kids. They can all go and pursue their own path.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Because again, I think the point is like the path and the journey is the fun and these kinds of battles are really brutal. And I'll tell you, to me, the thing that I'm sad when I hear this whole thing is like you have four siblings that I'm guessing grew up together. And now are they ever gonna talk to each other again? Or is it like three versus one or two versus two?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I just think that that's ugly over what? Power and money? If I was the father, I would have sold the asset, given the money to the kids or to charity or whatever. And hopefully they would have found happiness in a different way.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Clearly they didn't.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
it's all coming back together now they just got to get sony to give up i mean we want to talk about interesting ip marvel just sold these characters to the highest better in perpetuity such a crazy weird deal but it's like it's like me saying you know i uh i've collected some really nice belts and so i'm just gonna have like a death match between my five kids to see who gets the best belt
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
No, and it's about being picked. Yes. Imagine if your father picks your sibling and not you. Why would you do that? Yeah. Like, is the asset so important? As Zach said, these are self-managing because business people will make rational business decisions. So put it in the hands of a rational business person. Keep the family intact because if you lose the family, what do you have?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's what I don't get.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I mean, I don't think the process was super open and transparent and Democratic, but I don't think they had much of a choice. And I think we've talked about that because too much of the money would have had to essentially been returned. And I don't think you can fight a federal election in 2024 with one hand tied behind your back. So she was the de facto nominee when the rumor started.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And now I think the whole point is to figure out where does she stand? I think the thing that she will have to overcome is that these last three years, three and a half years, she's been relatively under the radar. MIA, some might say. And I think that now there's this whole controversy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I don't know if you guys have seen this, where she was named the border czar, but then she was not the border czar. And I think there's a mainstream media, it's sort of fighting with itself from six months ago about the whole thing. But the point is that we don't know what she believes, and we don't yet have a sense of her
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
agenda really you know and i think that over these next two months it'll be up to her to really create a very clear case of what she believes in and then it'll be really interesting to see who she picks as her vp candidate and then people i think will be in a position to judge and i think that that's what you know what if i've been kind of like reading the tea leaves from the folks that i've talked to is sort of what they say which is tbd and we need to figure out where she's at
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I actually wonder whether this deal would have had more probability of happening had the whole AT&T snowflake leak not happened. Because I think that when you have moments like this, there's a non-trivial possibility that it supercharges sales even more. I think the reality is that if you're a hyperscaler, so if you're Amazon or Google or Microsoft, your business is pretty fragile and brittle if
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The services you provide or the services that third parties like Snowflake provide through you are not reliable. And so I've never heard of a business that has generated so much ARR so quickly. I mean, from zero to half a billion dollars in four or five years. I mean, how do you even build the product surface area quick enough to capture that much revenue?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So if you look at Trump's VP pick, it's about aligning a philosophy. Donald Trump created the MAGA movement, this populist conservative right-wing movement. And I think J.D. Vance has an opportunity now to carry that torch post-Donald Trump. And that is an ideology that spans states. I think this idea that you pick somebody because they can deliver a state is pretty misguided.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I just don't think that that in reality is what happens. So I think that Kamala has to decide what she stands for and figure out whether she needs somebody on her flank that represents a slightly different set of ideas that will then maximize her appeal or she wants to double down. And then she has to pick somebody that sort of like aligns with her philosophically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And again, I would just say that it's not super clear yet what she thinks. I think that Joe Biden was more of a traditional centrist that had to appeal to the progressive left in order to get his work done. So that kind of makes sense. You can understand it. You don't have to agree with it, but it's pretty obvious. I don't know where she's at politically. So I think that that's the first thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
She needs to explain herself. Is she a centrist? Is she more of a moderate Democrat? Is she more of a progressive Democrat? And then we can then understand who the best person to align her with should be. But if I was in the Democratic kind of like- Star chamber.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, I would kind of try to figure that out first, because I think the Donald Trump pick makes a lot of sense, because it basically moves the Republican Party in a very firm direction. That die is cast for the Republicans for many years to come now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I think it just goes to show you how bad security is in the cloud and how needed it is. So it doesn't surprise me that Google... wouldn't buy something like this. I think Amazon and Microsoft would probably want something like it as well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I'm sorry. Go ahead. What does it solve? What does it accomplish?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I suspect that if you had to guess why they said no, is because they thought that they could grow revenue much faster because of recent events, as well as their own just natural momentum. And I think that if this thing had not happened, I wonder whether they wouldn't have just sold.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You want to set the record straight on Zenefits and just say what happened?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Look, I think that part of what happens in Silicon Valley is that there is these cliques and there's definitely a YC clique and they protect their own in absolute terms. And so I think there's a level of morality that everybody else has to live by. That's not necessarily the rules that apply if you're a YC CEO.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Now, that was accepted in Silicon Valley because in the early days, they were, frankly, one of a very, very small handful of games in town with respect to high-quality deal flow when you started to do Series A, B, and C. And as a result of that, I think venture capitalists essentially looked the other way because the returns were so good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The companies that were coming out of the incubator were so good. But as with all things, when you're successful and you try to scale, returns decay. And this is not a slight on YC's returns, but it's what happens to everybody. So if you look at Blackstone's returns, they were incredible when they started. And they're okay today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
When you look at Sequoia's returns, they were incredible when they started. They're okay today. YC's returns were incredible when they started. They're okay today. And this is nothing against any of these folks. It's that in the business of building an organization and scaling, that's what happens. And when that happens and a lot more competition emerges on the scene,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The old tactics that you used to use to run a protection racket, if you will, just doesn't work anymore. And I think part of what's spilling out in public here is that that kind of immature form of bullying and intimidation is just kind of dumb because it just doesn't hang together anymore. So I don't know. I thought the whole melee, if you will, ruckus, Jason, fracas, fracas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
a clash was more about a guy that was engaged in this, trying to do what he perceived to be the right thing for a YC founder in his community, but probably he just needs to get back to work and do something productive and probably this wouldn't happen the next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Oh, there's a bit coming. Something's breaking in. What's happening?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I can tell you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
He doesn't have enough to do. He's sitting around. He's got a lot of money. I mean, he's been very successful. And as far as I can tell, he's just getting into dust-ups on Twitter and then... There's a lot of amazing people, we all know them, that are so good when they're under pressure, focused and grinding.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And then when you take a little bit of the pressure off, they just go crazy and they don't have enough to do. And it's amplified by money and it's amplified their own perceptions of themselves. So I don't know, maybe you should just go back to work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Power equals AI. You don't think that distributed energy can basically deliver effectively energy at a marginal cost of zero?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
What about carbon based solutions as a fallback?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So the only solution is to rewrite the regulation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
It's important to have a job. Otherwise, everything just goes to pot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
major outages like this? I think the reality is that that code is still really brittle and there's gaping holes everywhere. And I suspect that the reason why foreign adversaries don't hack us is because we could hack them back. And so I think it's almost like a mutually assured destruction is the only reason why these things stay up every day. So at some point, we're going to write better code.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Maybe these AI agents will do it and there won't be like
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
memory leaks and all this other random stuff but in the meantime i think you just have to assume that everybody will get access to all of your information and that eventually everything is hacked and everything is leaked yeah and act accordingly and act accordingly yeah assume every the worst conversation you ever had on social media or on dms is going to come out
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
That's pretty intense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, I've got a totally different take on this. Obviously, I agree with all you've said here in terms of the open source and the dramatic effect it's going to have on pricing. But there's something people are missing. If you go to meta.ai for a second, Nick, and you pull it up, what you'll see is they've dedicated the meta.ai URL to a search-like experience.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And then they've put a search box at the top of Instagram, WhatsApp, and Facebook. And so they are going to put search engine, essentially, their modern search engine, which is starting from zero in front of 3 billion people using Meta's collection of services.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And so just like Apple and Firefox were able to intercept search traffic, I think, and let's make a prediction here, that Meta is going to get 10 points of the search market. Now, each point of the search market is worth, you know, what is Google's worth? About 2 trillion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
This is my tip. It has worked. I'm going to give it out here. And the reason I'm giving this out is because y'all are cheap f***s. Not you, but just a lot of y'all out there. And you don't know the art. In Brooklyn, everybody gets tipped. We tip the phone guy when he comes to fix your phone at your house. Everybody gets tipped. So here's what I would do. And you can do this with a 20.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
If you take out 500 billion for YouTube and their other services, you get 1.5 trillion, which means 10 points is worth 150 billion in market cap. Now, as you well know, Chamath, and you well know, David, these two ad networks, Meta started with psychographic data, the person, who they know. And then, of course, Google had the greatest advertising product ever, Intent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You type in Volvo, you type in Tesla, type in Tesla Santa Monica, used. You don't have to guess what the person is interested in at that moment. Well, for the first time, you know, one of these ad networks has content data and psychographic, and they're going to be able to put it together. And I think they take 10 points of search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But more importantly, they're going to have data on individuals that will be unrivaled in the advertising space. Now, Google tried to do this themselves. They did something called Google+. I don't know if you were there, Freeberg, during the Google Plus era. They spent billions of dollars on a social network. It failed. They shut it down because they wanted to get that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So looking at this, I think, man, there's so much going on on open source. But now Google, and we haven't talked about Google's role in all of this, and Sundar being a hired gun, not having founder authority, to your point, Freeberg, You know, I think they're going after Google search business as well as, you know, taking away and commoditizing all of the open source.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So we might be sitting here in three or four years watching Meta have, I don't know, 10? Nobody has to win in search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You can do it with a 50. You know, if you're going to some great place, you can do it with a 100. You fold it twice, as Chamath says. You put it in your palm. You walk up to the maitre d' stamp. If there's anybody in line, you just cut it. And you go to the side of the table. You put your hand on the maitre d' stand. You push the hand over slightly. Here's the maitre d' stand.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Up next, Tesla earnings. Elon's master plan part two is going well as planned. Again, this was voted up by our panel here in our group chat. Last time we covered Tesla was episode 164, early February after a Delaware judge voided Elon's pay package. Since then, Tesla has made some giant moves. They launched FSD12. I've been using it. It's pretty great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Also, they cut the price of FSD by one-third from $12K to $8K. I think you can also get it for $100 a month. And they announced a 10% RIF. Going to cut 14,000 employees. Always painful to do that. They're looking to reincorporate in Texas, leaving Delaware for obvious reasons. Earlier this week, Tesla shares were down more than 40% year to date, mostly due to a decrease in demand for EVs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Market caps dropped from $750 billion to $460 billion. Shares dropped 12% when they reported Q1 earnings on Tuesday. Investors got excited after Elon announced that Tesla's new line of models could start production at the end of the year, or maybe even early 2025.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
He shared some thoughts on the robo-taxi or cyber-cab, which he talked about maybe five or six years ago, and he has had in the master plan for a long time, Chamath. You made some great calls on Tesla and made some great trades there back in the day. Your thoughts on Tesla in 2024?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You just slide your hand over and you reveal the 50. And you say, I am so sorry. I was supposed to make a reservation. I don't know if my assistant did it or not. She probably didn't. However, I'm a huge fan of the restaurant. If there's anything you could do for me, I made a stupid mistake to not make a reservation. If somebody cancels, I'll be at the bar.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, just well recapped. For those who don't know sharps in gambling are people like are all about friend of the pod. who are just the sharpest bettors in gambling. Facistitude, that's an unpleasant change in circumstances for those of you who don't know the word. Sacks, I don't know if you want to comment. I mean, you and I are biased in this with the relationship with Elon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Any thoughts on Chamath's take?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Let me ask a question here. How do you rank These businesses, energy, optimists, trucking, ride sharing, energy, optimists, the robot, trucking, ride hailing. Rank those, your number one or two in terms of potential for Tesla Chima. Round the horn. That's a good question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It used to be 20 when I lived in New York. Now I regularly do 50. And the reason I do it is I don't like giving money to charity. I feel like these charities are all a giant scam. And I like to give it to service people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, this is a long-term question. Based on the long-term, one and two.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
We called it going full Uber. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, you were one of the first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But a robo-taxi... 90%, I think, is the number on average that they're not used. Freebrook, who's your one and two?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's a little harder to hold in your hand. I used to use a roll of quarters, actually. That was awkward. The roll of quarters was a little bit hard. The 50 is easy. I'm just asking everybody here, if you hear my voice, please go tip your maitre d' 20 or 50 and report back if my technique works.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So you're one and two optimist ride share.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamath, what was your number two again? Just so I can recap here. I would actually probably pick energy. And why would you pick energy as your number two after ride handling?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Because what you're doing in the framing is you're saying you made a mistake and then you make it so the person doesn't feel like you're bribing them or paying them off. They're helping you solve a problem. So anyway, it's kind of like when I troll David and I'm like, hey, Freeberg, with the summit, whatever. And he's like, I'll do all the work. Forget about it. You just got to reframe it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I've sold slightly more than the majority of my holdings over the years to private transactions. And then I held everything post going public. And I'm still long Uber. I give number one to Optimus by far and away because I think the build of materials on Optimus could be 10K or less.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I looked at some of these other startups that are in the space and I've been studying it a little bit just out of curiosity. And so at a 10K bomb, I think they could rent you one of these for $300 a month or something like that, a subscription. I think... every human on planet Earth eventually will have a robot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So I know that's crazy, but I think optimists will dwarf the entirety of Tesla's other businesses. Number two is energy, clearly, I think, and number three is ride-hailing. Number two, energy, fairly obvious what's happening here. If you look at what's happening with data centers, it's spiked, I think, from like 3% or 4% of energy now to like, is it 15%, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think we had a discussion with Phil Deutsch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Okay, so we dovetail the two stories together. These H100s are beasts, cooling beasts. This is like, you can't even, Phil Deutsch was telling us in the group chat, you can't even cool some of these places. And what that means is, There's going to be demand for energy. To Chamath's point, if each home becomes a little provider, you know, it's going to create some regulation change.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I believe I'm no expert on the regulations. We should definitely have Deutsche on the pod at some point to talk about this. But imagine these, like in Texas, they keep having the grids go down. And in Australia, they have the grids go down. It's going to be so annoying for consumers to have the grids go down while demand spikes for data centers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All the regulations are going to get opened up to put batteries and solar everywhere. It's also dangerous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All right, let's get started here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. And so I agree a hundred percent. And by the way, if you can make money from your solar and your batteries and somebody else picks up the cost of installation, I think there are some arbitrage here to be had. And I think that's like what you discovered when you did your first principled approach to this. So I think those two businesses will be far bigger than anything else they're doing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Now, on ride hailing, I'm using FSD 12, I have been using autopilot, I was one of the first users of autopilot. You know, from the beginning, like literally, and FSD 12 is a significant improvement. That being said, all of these systems work really well in a controlled grid, like we've seen with Waymo in Arizona and in limited parts of Los Angeles and San Francisco.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think that vision is five, six, seven years out from having low single digit percentages. And you may have seen Uber has incorporated Waymo and the taxis in London into their system. I think Uber is ultimately going to be the place people go to call up one of 20 different self-driving. I think a lot of people are going to get there at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Wouldn't be surprised if Elon gets there first, but I think that's five or 10 years out, if I'm being totally honest, you know, in terms of getting to scale. So I would never ever bet against Elon seeing what he's done. Wait a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. So you can just look at cruise and Waymo, and you can have your answer, which is today, in a contained environment with remote drivers intervening on some regular basis, it works. So people are taking Waymo, San Francisco, LA on a pretty regular basis. Cruise, I think, got kicked out of San Francisco. But in the cruise data, there was a lot of interventions going on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I suspect Waymo's doing a lot of interventions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I'm not promoting that. I'm not promoting this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
So anyway, to answer your question, Sax, I think today, or let's just say by the end of this year, an FSD-12 could be operating in a constrained space, just like Waymo is. Now, to get it to all regions, back roads, You know, weather, there's a lot of edge cases here. So I think the more important question is when can automated be 5% of rides or 10% of rides?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And I think that's five or 10 years from now. I do think a couple of people will reach that moment at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, but there's a safety driver watching this remote, I believe, which is what Cruise was doing. And then when they get to a point where they can't figure it out, the human comes in, intervenes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, no, I think they have it already if you drive FSD12. I believe FSD12... probably could be working today in San Francisco under a controlled grid with the remote drivers like the other people have. If somebody knows about this, by the way, can they send us information? I'm Jason at Calacanis.com for life. Just send me a picture. I'll keep it on the DL.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I will reveal sources of who these remote drivers are, what their setup looks like. I'm very curious to understand how the remote drivers work for Waymo and Cruise. Can they park the car? They can take the car with a joystick, is my understanding, and move it around a garbage can in the middle of the street, Jamal. Wow. And that might be the future of this. Like, let's say 10 or 15 percent.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Let's say 10 percent of the time it needs an intervention. one an hour to an hour having some remote person in manila wherever watching 10 videos concurrently and looking for moments to do this. It's incredible. Cruise workers intervened to help the company's cars every 2.5 to 5 miles, according to a New York Times article. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Your shift to man of the people... It's a bribe. No, but it's a bribe. It is a bribe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And just if we score everybody's rating here, I give two points for first place, one point for second place. Optimus got six points. Ride Healing, four. Energy, two. Trucking, zero. There you have it, folks. There's your scores from the besties. What is Waymo? What is that? Is that like Uber? That's Google self-driving. They spun it out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
LIDAR, $150,000 cars. Uh-huh. But it competes with Cruise? Yeah, they're doing what Cruise did.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And there's also Aurora. I don't know if Uber owns a percentage of that or not, but I think you know about Aurora.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Ah, I see. Uber owns 26% of Aurora. Or actually now it's down to 20%. There's also Zoox.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. There's also Zoox, which is part of Amazon. So I think there's about... 10 people who are going to get to the finish line at the same time. I think it's going to be a very crowded space.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamath, you're very industrious and you're an absurd tipper, 100% tipper minimum. I know this because when I paid for dinner one time at Carbone, you took me and Phil Hellman's cards and you said, you guys pay and I'm going to put the tip in. And then I had to sell Uber shares to cover it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All right. Let's unpack. You're such a populist. You're so f***ing brilliant. I hate you. He just figures out a way to get those populist votes. No, here's what it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
There are 10 or more pursuing it. I do agree it goes down to four or five. And then it's a question of, is it a winner take all, winner take most? And that's what remains to be seen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, Waymo has the most on the road right now. I think Cruise is second to them in terms of in market. So the question is, how quickly can Elon get this out? Have you guys, any of you guys taken one of these robo taxis? I haven't taken one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Unlikely. I think unlikely. I think it's going to be a very slow rollout, you know, 1% or 2% a year. But, you know, it compounds, and so we'll see. All right, everybody. Is this a big win for Lena Kahn? The FTC just banned non-competes. Three of three people voted this up of the three besties who decided to vote on the docket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Federal Trade Commission this week voted by a three to two margin to ban non-competes to give you a sense of the impact here. Estimated of 18% of the total U.S. workforce are covered in some way by non-competes. 30 million people. The ruling bans agreements entirely and requires companies to let their staff know that non-competes are non-enforceable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I am so confident in how good the service is going to be. I'm giving a pre-tip. I consider it a pre-tip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
There are a few exceptions like existing non-competes for senior level executives. I'm guessing when you buy a company, you can get somebody to non-compete for buying their company. The Democratic FTC Commissioner Rebecca Slaughter called non-competes unfree and unfair.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
One of the dissenting commissioners, Republican Andrew Ferguson, said the FTC lacked authority from Congress to make this ruling without specifying whether or not he agreed with it. Theoretically, the new rule takes effect in 120 days. Wow, we're on a fast timeline. After which, the vast majority of existing non-competes will be unenforceable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Here in California, they're non-enforceable, as we know, except under certain circumstances. So this is really an East Coast thing. People in Boston, New York, they're really affected by this. And people will actually enforce these for things as silly as hairdressers. There was a big lawsuit by hairdressers who had to sign like 50 mile non-competes with their beauty salons. The U.S.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamber of Commerce says it plans to follow suit over the ruling. FTC says the rule will create 8,500 new startups a year because people can leave and compete.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I am happy to not get the money back if they can't accommodate me. One time it happened. The woman at Asia to Cuba in New York in the 90s said, here's your 20 back. And she said, I'm really sorry. There's nothing I can do. I would love it. It's very lovely of you to give me the tip. And she handed it back to me. And I said, keep it. And she said, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yes, there are unintended consequences. Where do you stand on this? Is this a huge win for Lena Kahn neutral, or a loss?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What does it mean, beach leave?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But the bartender is going to take care of you at the bar. So that ends well. All right, let's get started, everybody. We have a full docket for you today. And story of the week, as voted by besties, we have a new system here. Instead of me sorting the docket, the besties give a thumbs up, thumbs down. This one, I think, had two of three people voted for it. One person didn't vote this week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Great film.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think this is great, what Lena Kahn's doing. And this is two for two. I think her Apple action was great. I think this is great. Love to have her at the summit. That would be an amazing fireside chat. So if anybody knows her, invite her to the summit. There really is three-way... Oh, and by the way, Chamath, media business on the East Coast also does this, and that's why...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
friend of the pod, Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon, both of them started shows on the internet, not other networks, because they have very tight non-competes and it's pay to play. They got paid out their full contracts according to reports. And so there is something, I think, in the middle ground here, Chamath, where if you do want somebody to not compete, you got to pay to play.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And that is Zuck's Scorched Earth AI Strategy. As you probably know, if you're in tech, Meta was the first big tech company to fully embrace open source AI. Llama leaked last year. Folks said that it wasn't leaked. It was released covertly or on the slide DL by the folks at Meta. But they just released Lomba 3. And I talked to Sandeep about this a whole bunch last week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
In other words, they're getting paid. But this is what I'm saying.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
That's going to be great for the economy. Sax, you were going to say something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well said. Team, product, brand. These are the ways to build a great business, not legal shenanigans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
18 to 36 months. Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Not everybody. Not everybody. Lewandowski? Was that his name? Lewandowski. Well, that's why it's really stupid. What an idiot. Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Could you imagine if Facebook sued Google to get YouTube? Speaking of startups, this is critically important for founders listening. If you're working at a company, the best practice is if you're going to do a side hustle is to get permission and a waiver from your boss that you're working on that. And get a clean machine. And you got to go on a clean machine. Your machine is being monitored.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Your work machine, I'm telling you right now, is being monitored every step of the way. I had- Well, it's not just monitoring. It's about who owns that IP. It's their property. It's their property. And if you type on it, especially in this work from home era, and anyway, I had a situation, I wouldn't say at which company, where a sales executive
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
left the company, went into the CRM system, downloaded it, and he was so dumb, he had written plans for his next employer on his computer, And then in his corporate email, emailed the database and his plans for the new employer to his Yahoo or Outlook email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They busted him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They dropped a legal letter on him. They put a legal letter on the person who was hiring him. The person who hired him rescinds the offer. Obviously, they don't want some toxic nonsense. And yeah, the person, you know, I have no idea what happened to him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It just came out a few days ago, and it's already in the top two models on Hugging Face's leaderboard. You can take a look at Hugging Face's leaderboard. It's basically where it's the most trusted place, I think, where people benchmark these things. Developers are saying it's faster. It's less preachy, was an observation in chat, GPT-4, despite being slightly lower quality.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
you know please let me know who or something like that it's just a phenomenal email yeah and they they this actually resulted in a bunch of legal action a settlement because i think eric schmidt and steve jobs correct me if i'm wrong producers or there was something between google and apple where they agreed and i think sergey or somebody was yeah sergey got in on this is i don't know if this is legal
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But they didn't want to piss Steve off because it's not the kind of guy you want to piss off because he can execute. And Eric Schmidt was on the board of Apple at the time. There's a very famous picture of them at the Sand Hill Road or Stanford Mall having coffee. And Steve is lit. He's not happy about this. And I think they agreed to not poach a certain level or something like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Oh, there's the famous picture where they were breaking bread. And then Eric Schmidt did Android. Steve felt very betrayed by this. And Eric Schmidt left the board of Apple shortly thereafter because Steve reportedly felt like he was double-crossed. But, you know, all that is speculation. So check your own facts. Do you have any other details on that, Freeberg? Do you remember that case?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It was after your time, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I have three amazing Steve Jobs stories. I'll tell you one of them right now. I was the co-founder of a website called Engadget, which was the largest blog in the world. We wound up selling the collection of those blogs to AOL. I was at a conference. Steve Jobs was there. He seized my badge. says Engadget. He goes, oh, Jason, Engadget, my favorite tech blog in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I read it every day, yada, yada. And I said, oh, that's great. And I said, hey, can I ask you a question? He said, yeah, sure, anything. And we're out there, beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean. And I said, you know, Steve, I have the iPod. I pulled it out of my pocket and it had a color screen. And I said to him, I said, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It seems to me that I could download short video clips like of the Chappelle show. And I use that as an example. And they could sell them to me like you're selling MP3s. And you could just buy like a Chappelle show issue episode. It's a pretty obvious idea. And then I could play it when I'm on the subway or something or got some downtime in a cafe. I could watch the Chappelle show clips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Could you make a video version of this since it's already got the storage and the screen? And he looked at me and said, Jason, do you want to watch a thumbnail size video? I said, yeah, totally fine. He said, all of our research says nobody wants to watch a tiny video like that. It's the worst idea ever. And I had this moment of like self-doubt because he had that reality distortion field.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They also have some small models that are performing really well. They also announced, very interestingly, open sourcing the Quest operating system called MetaHorizons OS. The OS powers the mixed reality headsets, VR, all that kind of stuff, AR. But here's the big news. This one is amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I go back, I tell my guys what he said. Hey, should we write a story about it? And 30 days later, He releases the video and the ability to watch videos on it. He had the greatest poker face ever. It was just an incredible moment. Man, I really miss that guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Come on. These are great. People loved, by the way, the segment when we went on a... When I worked at Winamp, my boss...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Zach, did you ever meet Steve Jobs in person? No. Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, this is a great topic. There is a guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Instagram, Facebook, and WhatsApp are integrating a search box or their AI assistant chat box into all their apps. Worth noting, Meta came out with their results just the other day. And we're taping this on Thursday. As you know, it comes out Friday. Their stock is down as much as 16% after reporting its Q1 earnings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What? Oh, come on. You can't not tell that story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
People loved the story last week when we did our childhood businesses. Hold on. I want to hear the story, Chamath. Come on, Chamath. You give us one more. I'll give you one that's recorded on video.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Good, that's why we want to hear it. Yeah, that's why we want to hear it. Get it out, get it out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I was not a good culture. I would not have been a good cultural fit for that. No, he wanted radicals and Tim Cook wanted, you know, optimizers. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I will, I will save my just to get this. We got to get through two more stories in the doc. And I'm going to leave my other Steve Jobs stories for another time. We got time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They beat estimates, but Zuck is saying he's going to spend a bucket load of cash on infrastructure. Shamath, it's your alma mater. He worked side by side with Zuck, growing Facebook from, what, 10, 20 million to 400 million mows. What do you think of his strategy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's so strong. I mean, I got to give it to you, Jake, all you have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
balls i mean the truth is i traded emails with steve many times he he was with the press he was full contact as you know all right it's time it's time for sax red meat and we've got a double serving for sax sax stands are going to be really happy right now tiktok's divester ban bill has been signed into law senate passed the bill 79 to 18 we've talked about this here over and over and over again
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
President signed it. This thing's on the fast track. Divest or shut down. TikTok bill was packaged, bundled, with $95 billion in foreign aid. $61 billion for the Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. $26.4 billion for Israel and humanitarian aid for civilians in Gaza. And about $8 billion for the Indo-Pacific region, a.k.a. Taiwan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
House added a provision to the bill that required the president to seek a $10 billion repayment from Ukraine's government. Finally, they're talking about the leaseback. We'll see if that ever happens. I'm curious what Sachs thinks there. Last year, CNBC reported that ByteDance was buying back $5 billion worth of stock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And early Thursday morning, it was reported that ByteDance is exploring selling a majority stake in TikTok's U.S. business. Looks like gun to the head is working to a non-tech company without the algorithm. In other words, maybe they sell it to a Walmart, somebody who they don't consider super competitive. I'm not sure who the non-tech company is here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It could be Disney would come to mind as well. And remember, Disney did look at buying Twitter, but they didn't want the toxicity of an open platform. TikTok is obviously heavily scrubbed of anything that is aggressive. You can't show a movie clip with somebody getting attacked violently. It's very PG-13. But this is the key part, Sax. No algorithm in the package deal. Your thoughts on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And you can take it either way you like, because I know your fans want to hear about everything. Do you want to talk about the budget bundling or the TikTok ban and the divestiture, which seems to be happening?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Okay. What are your thoughts on gold chain Zuck? and his new strategy to pivot away from VR to AR, AI, and going full all in, so to speak, on open source.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Oh, no, they proved that data. It's been proved that they spied on journalists.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I spoke to multiple TikTok employees, myself personally, and they told me that the Chinese representatives are all over the company and inside of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
No, my position on banning, thanks for asking, is based on reciprocity and the potential damage it could do and based on how influential and powerful the product is and how they could change sentiment and censorship. And the Chinese government is... Fantastic at censorship and they're doing massive censorship inside the app.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Where is his face though? Isn't he out of there? He's in Monaco or something? He doesn't live there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
But you also said on Twitter, you thought this would come to X and to Rumble. You actually think they'll take this to American companies?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
How does it jump to X?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah. And the TikTok guy's bought off Trump already, so he's going to fight for it. Freiburg, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They said it's not a tech is the report.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Not a tech company. So that would be Walmart, Disney, you start to get to over... Maybe a media company, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Chamath Palihapitiya, our chairman dictator. Can't wait to see you at poker tonight. What are your thoughts on this, if any?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I think this is a security risk. I've made that clear here before. And I don't think we would ever allow Iran, North Korea... Russia to run any of these companies inside of America, nor would they allow us to run Facebook X, et cetera, in their countries. So I think reciprocity is the key, but I am running a little test right now. I posted this video to my TikTok today, and it's under review.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
They won't let it publish. And the video is very simple. It quotes a study from Reuters. You don't have to play it. I'll explain what I said in it. But I just took a video of the Reuters study. What this Reuters study shows you, pull up the chart there, Nick, is that in this Rutgers study, the CCP is censoring sensitive topics related to China.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And so if you want to understand why the CEO, who I think you may have worked with before, Chamath, at Facebook, the CEO is saying it's a ban when in fact it's a divestiture. If you want to understand why they care about this, it's because they want to be able to influence things in America. They want to have data on Americans. It's spyware. That's my position.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And it's the most censored platform, I think, in America, which I know you feel passionately about, Saxx. So I did this video, and just like COVID-19 was blocked on X, here in America, in the US, if you talked about Wuhan, if you talked about any of these topics, our government banned it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Well, if you talk about Hong Kong, if you talk about Uyghurs, if you talk about Tiananmen Square, your video will not be posted. In fact, my video is held right now. So... If you're hearing my voice right now, I'm doing a little experiment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I want everybody to post that chart and just read the Wikipedia page, maybe talk about Tank Man, talk about the Hong Kong riots, and then use the hashtag, don't ban TikTok. as a little bit of a cheeky way for us all to track each other's.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And I want to see if a hundred or a thousand all-in fans post one of these, if they all get banned or if we can see any of them so we can do a live censorship test here in America. Are Americans allowed to talk about Tiananmen Square, the Hong Kong riots, Uyghurs or any of those things? And you can also, if you want, have mentioned me. I'm at Jason Calacanis on TikTok. So that's my position on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I want to see this thing banned immediately or divest. I would prefer it be divested. Because I think people love it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
All right, we're going to see. What do you think of my don't ban TikTok challenge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What do you think of my don't ban TikTok challenge, Sax? The censorship challenge?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Wow. You're so passionate about censorship. It's done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Not if we stay vigilant. I mean, if we keep talking about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, they see you coming. You know what they see? 10 dimes worth of wine. I have taught many of my friends how to get reservations. I have a series of tips that I could give, but I don't want to give too many of them away. But nobody gives tips to maitre d's anymore. Sax, you tip the maitre d with cash?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
That's insane. Let's take a deep dive on that in a future episode because we're running out of time. We really should. One more story to get to. Let's deep dive it. Listen, there's a lot of topics people want us to talk about. And this one, I think people are talking about a whole bunch. It's kind of breaking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I couldn't find a Wall Street Journal or a Washington Post covering this, but a lot of people were talking about it on X. Biden's 2025 budget includes some serious capital gains hikes. There are three proposals in the 2025 budget. We'll put all the links in the show notes to increase cap gains rates, as opposed to income cap gains.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
If all three are passed, big if, it would more than double the long-term capital gains tax to almost 45%. Important to note, this only covers those making 1 million or more a year, which is like less than 1% of the country, way less. And so this is definitely a tax the rich idea here. Currently,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
the highest long-term capital gains rate is 20%, which is really about 24% if you earn more than 200K per year, because you have to pay an extra small tax. If these proposals become law, big if, it would create the highest cap gains rate in 100 years. Here's the chart.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
This comes from Americans for Tax Reform, which was done by a Reagan era, an NGO, I think, that was formed by a former Reagan administration. They basically make Politicians sign that they won't increase taxes. The budget also proposes a 25% unrealized cap gain tax. This would be a tax on total income, including unrealized cap gains for all taxpayers worth over 100 milli.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Okay, Sachs, I know this is your red meat. There's a lot of pieces here, but gosh, this is crushing for those folks who want to vote for Biden, but are moderates because this is like the number one thing you can do to stop innovation and investment in the country, which we desperately need. This is a head scratcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Freeberg, your thoughts? Well, we're talking about it here. We're not shrugging it off. This is like five alarm fire here on X. Everybody's talking about it. Freeberg, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Look at this little victory lap here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Your 401k is the government's and we're going to seize it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's gross. Unless you want to stop it now. Cut spending.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, I read that you're all in, so to speak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah, okay, there it is. I mean, these are the two worst candidates in the history.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's the worst two candidates, and I think I'm voting for the third. Ooh, an RFK endorsement. Wow. I didn't see that. I think I just have to put in the protest vote of RFK or Biden. I love RFK.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, crazy. I think maybe I go after the rock. But yeah, congratulations on Biden on making this easy for Trump with his build back broke plan. So dumb.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, the worst two candidates of our lifetime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I mean, at this point, I think I'm RFK all the way. I think I got to go for just try to support independence. I just think we got to balance the budget. Shout out David Friedberg. For the rain man himself, David Sachs. Yeah. David Friedberg, the sultan of science. We didn't get to science corner this week. We're going to start with it next week. And the chairman dictator, Chamath Palihapitiya.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
I am the world's greatest moderator of the number one podcast in the world. I'm manifesting. Can we get to Spielberg? I'm manifesting track in here. And take us out, Spielberg. Young Spielberg, baby, coming at you. Love your voice. Bye-bye. Welcome, everybody, to episode 175. That's right. It's episode 175 of Your Favorite Podcast. The largest and most listened to podcast in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Officially, episode 177 of the podcast starts right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And now the plugs. Follow the show at x.com slash the all in pod. Our TikTok is at all underscore in underscore talk. Our Instagram is the all in pod. And on LinkedIn, search for the all in podcast. The show is produced by producer Nick Calacanis and our CEO is John Hale. You can find Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you can sign up for his weekly email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What I read this week at chamath.substack.com. Sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and follow Sandeep Madra, x.com slash Sandeep. You can follow David Sachs at x.com slash David Sachs. Sachs recently spoke at the American Moment Conference. It's his pinned tweet on his x.com profile. Follow David Friedberg, the sultan of science at x.com slash Friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Ohalo is hiring and David Freeberg is the CEO. You can click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. We're hiring a full-time researcher here. We need somebody who can do data research for us. We're looking for somebody to make charts and do surveys and research, deep research. If you'd like to apply, go to allinpodcast.co slash researcher, allinpodcast.co slash researcher to apply.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
The summit is taking place in September in Los Angeles, again at uclasummit.allinpodcast.co. I'm Jason Calacanis. You can follow me on x.com slash Jason or search for This Week in Startups on YouTube and follow my other podcast. I'm hosting my liquidity conference again in Napa on June 2nd to the 5th. Only LPs and GPs come to this event, 125 people every year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
This year's speakers include Ibrahim Ajami from Mubadala. David Freberg, Chamath Palihapitiya, Gavin Baker, Jordan Stein from Crescent Partners, Monique Woodard from Cake Ventures, I'm an LP, my guy, Pejman from ParaVentures, and Phil Deutsch, my bestie, liquiditypod.com slash summit to apply for one of the few remaining tickets. We'll see you next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Freeberg, your thoughts on meta-embracing going all in on AI. You were at Google, your alma mater, and you watched them be... proprietary and closed when it came to search and the search algorithm, but open source when they were behind. And that's, I guess, the phrase we use here in Silicon Valley. When you're behind, you use open source to catch up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
And when you're ahead, you close everything down. Facebook famously shut down all access to their APIs. You can't get into the social graph. But they're going open here. Why? Because they're behind. Your thoughts on this from, say, a Google perspective, and then maybe how Google might react. And then just broadly, do you think open source wins the day getting to AGI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Of course, right? See, this is why Sax and I get along. Sax is a legit old school guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
It's a great point about founder authority, I think. That's a really salient point. Shout out to Zuck. Would really be great to get him at the All-In Summit. Sachs, we have some breaking news here. It turns out Lama 3, they just tested it in the benchmarks. It says here you can make the founding fathers any race you like. It's a really interesting feature. Any thoughts on Facebook's strategy here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
You are a master strategist, David Sachs. Give us your master strategy here, 1700 chess rating, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
What this kid's been doing is he's been getting Carbone reservations, other top tier reservations. And by the way, everybody's had this as an app idea. Nobody's really executed it that well. I don't want to give any plugs for any apps right now. But he has been selling $70,000. He's been flipping restaurant reservations for upwards of $1,000.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax
Will they blow past the closed source model, Sax?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I just want to be clear here. I'm trying to do a docket, and we have to put the kibosh on this insanity of the soap opera that is becoming opening eye, Sax, because every week it's three, four, five stories. Have you seen what's happened this week? Yeah, of course. Got to catch the audience up here. Let's catch the audience up on what's happened here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
If any former employee who signed one of these old agreements is worried about it, they can contact me and we'll fix that too. Very sorry about this. So he's very, very sorry. It's starting to be like BP Oil, this company. They're just so sorry about everything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, that is not exactly standard.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I haven't, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, so just in layman's terms, the clawback means you had $10 million in equity invested you earn 75% of it, you've got 7.5 million in equity there. You say something disparaging about the company, they can take it back from you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Even in a situation, Sax, we've seen this, where somebody commits fraud they still get their vested equity. And then it's up to the company to sue them for fraud separately, right? Like we've seen instances of that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Like committing a crime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
What does Judge Sacks say?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, and here we go. I think the Microsoft will pay the speeding ticket and we'll just all move on. But Freeberg, my God, can you imagine like being two or three PhDs and, you know, machine learning or whatever, you study your whole life, you're pursuing general AI and like people are coming up to your desk and creating all this drama and nonsense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And you're in the middle of a soap opera while you're trying to create the technology that creates super intelligence. It's nuts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Okay, well, then in that case, we will move on from OpenAI. Oh, sorry.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, I mean, this is already... And I'm not saying we have all the facts yet, but... Yeah, what happens in these content cases is they get settled almost every single time. So the case law doesn't get codified. They just get settled out of court. If you go look at all the fair use cases, they almost never go to the mat. And so this one will just be settled.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
It'll just be a question of at what price.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So this is the third dramatic story of the week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Two heads of OpenAI's super alignment team left the company last week, the day after GPT-4.0 launch. Ilya announced he was leaving the company. He was our chief scientist. A few hours later, his partner on the alignment team, Jan Laika, also announced he was resigning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
All right, there it is, folks. If you want, you can switch to Saxipoo. So just go into OpenAI. You're saying they stole my voice now? Yeah, they stole yours. Go into OpenAI, go to Voices, and then just pick Saxipoo. It's right there between Putin and Tucker. Putin, Saxipoo, Tucker. You can find all your favorite MAGA guests on the number one MAGA program. All in podcast. Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
In a later thread, Laika explained that he left due to, quote, safety culture and processes have taken a backseat to shiny products. Okay, there's a little bit of disparagement to our former point about non-disparagements and NDAs. So OpenAI lost both its heads of AI alignment one day after it launched that new product. Is that a coincidence? It's interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
If you don't know what super alignment is, it's basically making sure that the software doesn't go Terminator. What are your thoughts on this, Friedberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Sacks, it was reported that Ilya was on the side of the... nonprofit-y, slow down AI, be cautious group when they fired Sam. So what's your take on what's going on here with super alignment inside of OpenAI? Judge Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, that's why people are saying there's this meme, what did Ilias see? What did he see?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Sam's a straight shooter. We should just have him on the pod to explain why. I mean, it'll clear everything up. Stop me if you've heard this before. NVIDIA just smashed all expectations while reporting record profits and revenue. The AI train continues on Wednesday. NVIDIA reported earnings for the fiscal Q1. Revenue was $26 billion, up 18% quarter to quarter, 260% year over year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Basically, they quadrupled. year over year on billions of revenue. This chart is bonkers. We've never seen anything like this in the history of Silicon Valley or corporate America. This is if somebody literally was mining coal and then found a diamond and gold mine underneath it. It's bonkers what's happened here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
When you look at the revenue there, the sort of slow growth or moderate growth revenue that they experienced, that was all because NVIDIA was primarily providing GPUs
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
For people playing video games or mining crypto, and then what you see with this unbelievable six-quarter run and five, six-quarter run is companies like Microsoft, Google, Tesla, OpenAI, etc., buying just billions and billions of dollars worth of hardware. I'll end on this and Chamath and get your take on it. Here's 2019 top companies by market cap in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
All right, we're off to a strong start here. Everybody's in a good mood. Let's keep the good times rolling here. And let's go over the ScarJo saga. To recap, if you're living under a rock this week, It came out that OpenAI, specifically Sam, had contacted Scarlett Johansson multiple times about lending her voice for one of OpenAI's chat box.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Obviously, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Google, Berkshire, Facebook, Alibaba, Tencent. And then you get some of the, you know, incumbents and legacy companies, J&J, Exxon and JP Morgan Visa. Way down on the list in 2019, number 84 was NVIDIA. Today, NVIDIA is the third largest company by market cap behind Microsoft and Apple and ahead of Google, aka Alphabet and Saudi Aramco.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Shamath, what's your take on this? Will it continue? And how do you conceptualize this level of growth on such a big number?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So, Chamath, who's in the arena trying stuff? Some of these things working, obviously, and some not working.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Obviously, you know, she famously was the voice Samantha in the awesome film, Her. And according to ScarJo, Altman told her she could quote, bridge the gap between tech companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift concerning humans and AI. and that her voice, quote, would be comforting to people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Death by a thousand startups. All right, I guess one of the questions people are asking right now is, have we ever seen a company at this scale and the impact it's having, not just in technology, which Shamath just pointed out beautifully, but also it's having a huge impact on Wall Street, on the stock market, on finance.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Pretty one-dimensional. Yeah, pretty easy to copy. Moving data around, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, it's like a giant oven.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Although she declined the offer, OpenAI released a chatbot named Sky, which had a similar voice to ScarJo's. According to ScarJo, her friends and family thought the voice was her. She released a statement, yada, yada. On May 13th, the day OpenAI launched ChatGPT 4.0 Omni, which we talked about last week, Altman tweeted, her, a reference to the film.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So there's a counter here, Freeberg, which is obviously, if you follow the Cisco analogy, one of the things that also sunk Cisco was once people had bought all that capacity, there was no need. There was no file size that was so great that it couldn't be moved easily around the internet. You know, you make movies...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
HD, super HD, 2k, 4k, the bet we've created too much bandwidth, there was no use for it. So I guess that that's a counter argument for maybe when, if we build up too much capacity, NVIDIA also could not by competitors, but just by the build out being enough. So what's your take on that counter argument, and then whatever I thought you have?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, we talked about that in a previous episode, because there's no M&A, to your point. Unicon's not going to let you buy stuff, or the UK is not going to let you buy stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Obviously, now ScarJo is threatening legal action against OpenAI. Altman put out a statement apologizing and saying the voice was never intended to resemble hers. His quote, we're sorry to Miss Johansson that we didn't communicate better. OpenAI showed documents to the Washington Post that confirmed the voice was provided by a different actress who is anonymous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, and there's a great precedent for what you're saying because, or clues, Amazon is making chips, Google is making chips, and in fact, Apple- Facebook's making chips.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And then Apple makes their own chips and they got rid of Intel. And so this is how it's going to go. Your margin is my opportunity. And, you know, with all this market cap increase, the good news is just reported that Jensen has bought a second leather jacket. So, well, this market cap has enabled him to Expand the wardrobe a bit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
He looks amazing. I'll tell you something. In the zombie apocalypse draft, I'm picking him. That guy seems crafty. He's so resourceful. What do you think he does for exercise? No plastic. Plastic-free balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
He's got steel in there. No, no. His had brass in them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Okay. Well, we have two choices here. We can go with another tech story, or we can go directly to Science Corner. Well, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Okay. So you want to talk about our pocketbooks, and then we'll talk about our pockets, and then we'll just make a quick detour to the right and then talk about our balls. We're in the same vicinity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I mean, Freiburg told me he likes to start with the balls. I don't know. Everybody's got different kind of vibes here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
You want to save the ball play for later, Saxon? Yeah, yeah. I'm having a hard time keeping this together, guys. More than half of Americans think we're in a recession. I think we're in a vibe session right now because we're not in a recession. But people are feeling really bad. A Harris poll conducted by The Guardian shows 56% of Americans wrongly believe the U.S. is in a recession.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Not surprisingly, they blame Biden. The poll highlighted a bunch of misconceptions. 55% believe the U.S. economy is shrinking. It's obviously not. 56% think the U.S. is experiencing recession. It's obviously not. 49% of people believe the S&P 500 stock market index is down for the year. It's up 12% this year. It was up 24% in 2023.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Post reporters also spoke to the unnamed actress's agent who confirmed the story. I guess, Sax, you sent us a comparison clip. Maybe we start there and see what we think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And 49% believe that unemployment is at a 50-year high when it's in fact at a 50-year low. and Americans are really concerned about the cost of living and inflation. Fair enough. 70% said the biggest economic concern was the cost of living. 68% said that inflation was the biggest economic concern. Important quote here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
A majority of respondents agreed, it's difficult to be happy about positive economic news when I feel financially squeezed each month, and that the economy was worse than the media made it out to be. According to the polls, 70% of Republicans and 40% of Democrats think Biden is making the economy worse. Chamath, you have some thoughts on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And just going back to this chart right before it, just so the people who are listening, if you put the pie chop art in there, important for people to know, consumer is about 70% of the economy. And if you put investment and government together, that's just over maybe 34% or something like that. Yeah, 35%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So it is a consumer-driven economy, but hey, corporate and government spending is a major piece as well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Saks, what's your take on the vibe session?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Because of inflation, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Where did the inflation come from?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
It sounds like they didn't get it perfect, right? Like they got it to, what, 90%? It sounds like
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I think we're probably going to go around the horn and all agree. Obviously, the crazy spending started in the Trump and COVID era, and that caused a lot of the inflation as well, just to be fair. It's two administrations that are just out of control with spending. But the way I look at this is the Mickey D economy is
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
People may not know this, but 96% of Americans eat meals at least once a year in McDonald's. 8% of Americans eat at McDonald's on an average day. And when you look at the prices of McDonald's here, if we look at this image- Yeah, this is incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
This is unbelievable. Medium French fries at McDonald's, $1.79 in 2019, and now $4.19. And then if we look at just McNuggets- My gosh. $4.49 to $7.58. 68% increase. McChicken, 129 to 389. And then here is a very interesting one. This is CPI versus McDonald's. Big Mac prices. Take a look at that. As much as the consumer price index has surged, Big Macs have exceeded that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And so Americans are seeing this over and over again when they go to McDonald's and other places. And that's what's causing the feeling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
If you own equities in McDonald's and you're in the top third or half, maybe half of Americans who have equity exposure, you're feeling great. If you're on the bottom third or half and you're buying at McDonald's and you don't own equity at McDonald's, you feel terrible. Freebreak, you had some additional thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Sax, let me ask you a candid question. When was the last time you were in a supermarket? Be honest. When's the last time you literally went to a supermarket? I'm just curious. It's a good question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, and the other thing is – I went to the supermarket the other day. I like going to the supermarket. I take my girls to the supermarket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I went and tried to find them here in San Mateo, and there's none left. They said Chamath cornered the market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Wait, they made this actress up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
You have to get on the Hokkaido strawberries. This is where it's at. You have no idea like what you can spend on strawberries. People are spending 10 bucks on a strawberry. It is bonkers. I bought a hundred dollar mango once in Tokyo. Yeah. Incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
The other thing I think with these numbers is if you're an economist and you're like, inflation has gone down, that means the rate of inflation has gone down from 6% or 7% down to 3% or 2.9% or 3.1%. That doesn't mean prices aren't still going up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah. Some of this is classic psychology. People do focus on the negative. The media focuses on the negative. And then with social media, people are seeing lifestyles that are unattainable, just like they're seeing body types that are unattainable because people are doing filters. You're also seeing people living a lifestyle that's unattainable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And then it makes people, because their expectation of their life is so high, when they then subtract the reality of their life, they've got a deficit. And really, happiness is like... expectations minus reality equals happiness.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, when people were having free money dropped on their head. Trump dropped free money on people's heads. So your argument that Biden's crazy in spending, Trump sent them free checks with his name on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
But you admit that he spent way too much money, right? You admit he spent way too much money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So when Trump signed his name on those shacks, there's no comparison.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Trump, just to give facts, Trump will have spent $7.8 trillion. Biden will spend slightly less, like $6.x trillion. At the end of these things, they're both going to have added $15 trillion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, and a terribly timed tax break.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, no, quantitatively, Trump spent more. But you're saying qualitatively Biden's is worse because he didn't need to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Right. OK, I got it. So one spent more, one spent less, but one didn't need to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, the tax break was the one that accounted for a lot of... But anyway, we can sit here and debate Trump versus Biden all day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, we're wasting time here. Wasting time on Trump and Biden when we could be talking... Let's get to my ballon. If we're going to talk about our balls, we need to go to somebody who's an expert on our testicles. Freeberg... Let's go right to science corner. Let's talk about our balls with the sultan of science. There's been a study on phthalates, our balls, and plastic in our balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Freebark, tee this up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Keep going, Tucker.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
In the frozen balls. In the frozen balls. These are ancient frozen balls? How old are these balls? 23 frozen balls, about seven years old. Seven-year-old balls, frozen.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
They asked me to store my balls, I think. They said, you've got such huge balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
What do you usually find, Freeberg? What do you usually find in these balls?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Okay, so just zooming out here for a minute, talked about the phthalates, but what about the bofas, Freeberg? The study on the bofas?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
circle the wagons, defend the company, sell your shares in secondary at 90 billion to Thrive or whoever. What would your take, Friedberg, on all of this craziness and drama?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah, it seems like you're saying it's helpless here, Freebird. There's nothing we can do. And I think what Chamath and I are asking you is like, where do we start? How can we start to get off of plastics?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Yeah. And here's an idea. Look at this, Chamath. Like, look at this banana. Like, I just, as a newsflash, a banana already has a wrapper. It's called the peel. And then people are wrapping plastics on this stuff. Like, I think consumers need to demand that, like, we have low packaging. Why did you take a picture of a banana? Why did you take a picture of a banana? I found that on the internet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I didn't actually take it myself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
No, no, it's just, you know, when you see this kind of packaging, this is what has made me nuts in my life is all this crazy packaging going on. And in Europe, you are required at the supermarket, and people do this when they get to the end of the counter, they take the packaging off. The supermarket has to take the packaging. So they have to bear the burden of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
So if you get a tube of toothpaste, you can take the packaging off and hand them the thing. Other places are now saying, hey, if you're coming for peanut butter or grains or flour or sugar, they have a barrel of sugar. They put it in a brown bag and you get this like more clean experience. I think we have to have like both ends of this, the supply chain, but also consumers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
You don't eat the peel, brother. You don't eat the peel.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
We haven't bought water bottles.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Did you ask him how many people in his house handled his banana?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Did that land me? Who made that? That was great. Did you make that? Yeah, that was me. 10 out of 10.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And it's impossible. If you're eating vegetables.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, there's other health benefits to it, of course. And there's environmental benefits. But we went all glass bottles, as I told you. And then I find out that some of the cans we have, because it's a couple of things we like, like certain... Natural sodas. They got plastic on the inside of the aluminum cans. The plastic on the inside, exactly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I'm like, I thought I was doing the right thing here by going aluminum cans. Now you gotta get rid of the plastic. No, no, no, we f***ed you. We put plastic on the inside.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
I'm in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Well, anyway, I think this was a fascinating science corner. And I took a screenshot of Sacks during it. This is Sacks' interest level. You can always tell how good it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Absolutely. They actually checked Sax's balls for the plastics and all they found were steel. So there it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Going around the horn here. What's your favorite balls in pop culture? For me, it's got to be Idiocracy. I love... Have you guys seen Idiocracy, Mike Judge's film?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Okay. So in the film, I'll just cue this up. Society has gone to the lowest possible IQ. Everybody's got an 80 IQ. And like people, like a reality TV star is running the country into the ground. That's what he has in idiocracy. And the number one television show is essentially a TikTok called Ouch My Balls. Here it is. Ouch My Balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
it's basically the number one television show in this society this dystopian society where all the crops have died and they don't know how to make crops anymore is ouch my balls it's just a super cut of a guy getting kicked in the nuts sax what's your favorite ball moment in pop culture
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
All right. Here it is, folks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Freeberg, you got a favorite ball clip from pop culture for yourself that tickles you? No? Chamath, you got one?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
You got one? Okay, everybody. This has been a spectacular episode of the world's number one podcast. It's episode 180 of the All In Podcast. with you again for the Sultan of Science, David Friedberg, David Sachs, the Rain Man.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And we'll see you all at the Olin Summit in September. Bye-bye. Love you, Bruce.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And now the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th. You can apply for a ticket at summit.allinpodcast.co. Scholarships will be coming soon. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search All In Podcast and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post. And we're going to do a party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
In Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers, so look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for theallinpodcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. And you can follow Saks at x.com slash davidsaks. Saks recently spoke at the American Moment Conference and people are going crazy for it. It's pinned to his tweet on his X profile. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, Go to Instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups. Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, et cetera. All in podcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to Athena. Wow. FinaWow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy J-Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
FinaWow.com. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
That was my idea, but Nick's and Lon's execution.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Broken clock's right twice a day. Took four years. That was awesome. A broken clock is right twice a day. The Jason Calacanis score. That's my winner by under.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And there's a very simple test here. If there's confusion amongst the public, which is what Scar Jo put in her letter, and that was a legally written, deftly written letter to set up a huge settlement. Because she said, the morning this came out, all of my friends said, oh my God, congratulations on your Chachi P. Teodale. This is great. The public being confused is the key issue here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
And there's something called the right to publicity. This is basically how celebrities defend their rights. It's happening all the time to podcasters, by the way. There was a company that put me in their ads based on something I said in a show. And then they put ads against it. And Huberman's been having this happen. Joe Rogan's having this happen. It's happening to me right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
They paid for it. There's a company, Speechify. I'm not an investor or anything like that, but they have Gwyneth Paltrow as a licensed voice to read your stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Obvious. Like just whoever wants to get paid, here's the opportunity. If three people say no, the fourth will say yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Judge Sachs, give your verdict. I'm starting a new spinoff show. Judge Sachs says... Guilty. Okay. Judge Sachs, sentence now. What's the sentence?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Or you get a fixer. Get Michael Cohen in there and get a settlement going. Let's get some fixer in there to fix it. Okay, listen, enough with OpenAI. Oh, wait, there's more. Geez, it's ruining the docket. I guess we have to talk about the next drama from OpenAI this week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
But seriously, there was a big drama, Sax. I don't know if you saw this, but you couldn't have missed it with the ScarJo. So they made an emergency, they had an emergency meeting, got all the developers together, and they've reset. They took Scarlett Johansson out, and they got a new person. I think arguably better. I'm free, Greg. I'm curious your take on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Former employees sign an agreement that they're forbidden forever from criticizing the company or even acknowledging that the NDA exists. If a departing employee declines to sign the document or if they violate it, they can lose all vested equity they earned during their time at the company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
In practice, this means ex-employees have to choose between giving up millions of dollars they've already earned or agreeing not to criticize the company in perpetuity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Scarlett Johansson vs OpenAI, Nvidia's trillion-dollar problem, the "vibecession," plastic in our balls
Here's what Sam Altman said. There was a provision about potential equity cancellation in our previous exit docs. Although we never clawed anything back, it should never have been something we had in any documents or communication. This is on me. And one of the few times I've genuinely been embarrassed running OpenAI. I did not know this was happening and I should have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Do we have Freeburg? Did he drop off? Oh, here he is. Okay. Freeburg's back. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And that is what the Supreme Court decision did. You cannot take race into account. Harvard had some weird thing, Friedberg, where personality was one of the vectors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Trevor, what's your take on this? You know, moving back to a meritocracy and a colorblind application process. Not being able to use race in admissions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Sax, any thoughts from you on this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
All right, Labor Department has revised down the job growth numbers as a number of members of this panel predicted. The BLS updated its non-farm payroll stats, downgrading actual job growth to around 30% versus what was originally reported. This means the U.S. economy created around 818,000 fewer jobs over the 12 months leading up to March 2024.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
The number was originally reported as 2.9 million new jobs created, and it's more like 2.1. The Labor Department updates and revises its stats frequently. It gives disclaimers. But this is the largest and most significant revision since 2009, after the Great Depression. recession.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So I like to go in the garden and take a breath of fresh air and just, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And so the biggest downgrade came in the field, not surprisingly, of professional and business services with 358,000 jobs lost over the last year. We see that in all the stats of different tech companies and businesses, finance companies doing layoffs. Other fields that revise their numbers, leisure, hospitality, manufacturing, retail, makes sense, and a little bit in transportation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Yeah, there might be the most notable schools historically, but they're not necessarily the ones that are... They're the biggest brands.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Wait, Berkeley's Ivy League? You went to Berkeley?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Yeah, it's very interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I went to Fordham University at night. I got in three weeks before. Did you get an undergrad degree from Fordham? Yeah, Fordham. I was going to either, I had taken the New York. What was your degree in? Psychology. I was going to go into the NYPD. I was about to get accepted at 18 years old, 17 years old, 18 years old. And then I decided at the last minute to go to Fordham at night.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I had to work in order to pay for it. So it took me four and a half years, but I did like almost a full credit load at night. And then I was going to go into John Jay for criminal justice and get my forensic degree and then join the FBI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So I was in the process of applying to the FBI and then the internet happened and I started a magazine about the internet and it went in a totally different direction. But the co-op stuff, I remember when we went to Waterloo, we did a speaking gig there years ago, Chamath, and I was very taken with the students there and their drive. And so I think that's the key piece.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Here's a couple charts for you before we go and get some feedback. Civilian unemployment rate seasonally adjusted. As you can see, since the great financial crisis, we went from 10% all the way down to well below four, and that's where we sit today. USA Today chart here of gains and losses since 1980.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And what I did in venture capital, because I needed to have a team of about eight people screening all the companies we get and the applications. So I just made my own training program and I hire a lot of people in Canada. to do it and basically they do five meetings a day. They write up coverage.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I made an entire framework and I'm doing professional development because I found a lot of the top people from these brand name schools were entitled. They didn't want to do 25, 35 meetings a week with founders. And I just found these other students from Waterloo and other colleges like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And I've trained them in my framework for these are the 13 qualities we look for in investing in a startup. And these are the 25 red flags. And I've now got seven people. We did 110, 120 meetings one week recently. And so it's just much better to train them ourselves and make your own training program, I believe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And what was his reason? Because of motivation?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I mean, we had Coleman Hughes on, and I think he had a very good perspective on it, which is like maybe starting with earlier education is where you could probably solve some of these problems a little bit more effectively.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Obviously, that massive drop you see there of minus 9.3 million jobs was COVID with the big quick rebound of 7.3. So overall, the country's in great shape. Sax, your thoughts on the revision? You obviously made note of this when we went through the numbers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
A lot of this comes down to motivation. At a certain point, a person has to be motivated to put in a lot of hours and become excellent at whatever their chosen profession is. I think I talked about it previously. When we started talking about macroeconomics here, I took a macroeconomics course at MIT. on their website or on YouTube rather.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Like there's incredible that this stuff is all out there and anybody can take any of these courses for free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
MIT 1401 principles in microeconomics, supply and demand. I mean, it was like incredible. And you know, this is stuff I just didn't ever get exposed to. And I was able to do it for free. I listened to the course actually twice and I took notes on it. I really got a lot out of it. All right. Listen, more stuff on the docket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Anybody else have final thoughts here before we go into the election stuff and taxes?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
All right. Decision 2024. Get ready for a bit of chaos here, folks. The DNC is underway as we tape. We tape on Thursdays, as you know. I think Kamala will give her acceptance speech tonight. DNC pulled out all of their all-stars, Michelle Obama, Barack, Hillary, Bill Clinton, Oprah, and Tim Walz spoke last night. Most people felt he had a pretty strong showing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Our guy Nate Silver, friend of the pod, has the election as essentially neck and neck. We're in coin toss territory here. I think it's going to come down to the debates. I'm interested to hear what my besties think. Here is the Silver Bulletin, his new publication. He's not at 538 anymore, just Kamala at 47, Trump at almost 45. And this all will come down to the swing states.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I think, as we all know, he's got a really great interactive chart over there. He's got Harris with clear leads in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and Virginia. I think those were about 68 electoral college votes. Trump with clear leads in Georgia and Florida. My Lord, Florida is 29 or 30 electoral college votes. That's a lot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
The toss-up states, Nevada with the tipping and no tax there, but that's only six. North Carolina. has been flip-flopping back and forth from Harris to Trump. Those two are worth 24. So we swung from many pats to victory, basically a certain victory for Trump with versus Biden to now a toss-up. This is an interesting chart here, Sachs. I want to get your
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
take on which is the polling averages, I think you said last week or the week before that we would see the Harris bump reverse. And that's exactly what's happened. The month over month change is dramatic, as you see in this table. But the week over week change, so in the month change, you have Democrats running the table in all the swing states.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And then you look at the weekly change, the opposite. In the last week, the Republicans have not caught up, but made significant gains all between a half A percentage point and a point, with the exception of North Carolina, which, as I stated earlier, is a toss-up. Your thoughts on the election right now, Sachs, before we get into the issues, just on the numbers here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
What do you think, Chamath? Do you trust these betting markets? Because there's so much at stake at this election, right? I mean, people are pouring money into both campaigns. It's really contentious. People see it as existential on both sides. And then you have these prediction markets that have low tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars being bet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Could these not be, you know, influenced? Do you trust them? Because we are seeing this is the first time these prediction markets have become a major discussion point because they're businesses, obviously. But people are really getting into them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And I wonder if they could be manipulated, or if you think you trust them, I guess is the way I'm asking you, because we've had this discussion a bit offline.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Wasn't the betting market, we talked about this two weeks ago, Shapiro was like 80% or something. So yeah, it's fairly obvious, Freiburg, that may be... these betting markets are a little bit entertainment, but maybe directionally correct, because they also did start to predict the hot swap. So what do you think, Freeberg, about these betting markets, prediction markets?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And Freeberg, people have a lot of emotion in these models when it comes to politics, whereas if you were looking at gambling or the odds of winning a poker hand, we all would be like, oh, you have a 30% chance of winning, or a 10% or an 8%, you're going to hit two adders. There's emotions both ways, J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And Zach, if people were to lose a poker hand that they were 60% to win or two thirds to win, you know, they would be like, okay, that makes total sense. When Hillary Clinton lost to Trump the first time, people lost their minds. And he was pretty clear, right? He was, I think, 65, 35. And people are like, wait, you said it's 65%. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Your thoughts on just the accuracy of polls generally and then what you heard here in terms of the betting markets. How do you look at these two things that are taking up a lot of space right now?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So, for example... Yeah, I have some numbers here, too, if you want to hear them. $653 million in political bets are currently being placed across the top 10 betting markets. And all of the markets on PolyMarket, which includes things outside of politics, are $320 million. So they are the big fish in this, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
They're the leader, but it's still a very thin amount of money, to your point, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Chamath, where do you put the third category here, which would be the oddsmakers in Vegas? Because they're looking at everything. What do you think about the oddsmakers in Vegas? Would you give them any credence?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Well, I mean, because people are looking at the tea leaves. There are reasons it matters. These markets do have an impact on the voting public because... The media covers them. Donors cover them. Voter turnout is impacted by the polls. And then there's these like... you know, various psychological phenomenon like the underdog impacts or bandwagon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So you could have, if people perceive at one point Trump is the underdog, maybe more people turn out and then people who, you know, if Trump was winning versus Biden so much, they might become complacent and you get some sort of surprise there. So they do have actual impact on the voting public.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Yeah, I want to talk about that policy. Sacks, I wanted to get your take on this Trump's VP pick JD Vance is now the least popular VP pick in modern history. People said the same thing also about walls. And that was a Terrible pick. Here's your chart on JD. And here's the historical chart. John Edwards. Man, I remember him. He was plus two in net rating. Tim Waltz, plus five.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Mike Pence, plus five. Kamala, when she was VP, plus three. But JD Vance is absolutely, he's below Sarah Palin, which I guess takes Everett. What's your take on the VP picks and the impact they're having here? Because it's a major topic of discussion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I love the J.D. pick, you know, venture capitals, business guy, well-written, well-spoken.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
To unpack what you're saying here, there was a report. Tim Walz has no financial holdings. He has no stocks, no bonds, no mutual funds, no real estate, nothing, no cryptocurrency. This is what you're referring to, Yachima.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
The level of like literally owning nothing. And I guess, Freeberg, to your, I'll let you take it from there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
That's an interesting framing. And another framing might be free bird. I love that. Hey, it's an interesting framing. Here's another framing. I don't, you're a young person. I can't own a home. They're too expensive. I don't have any equity. I'm getting ground down. I own, I owe a bunch of student loans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Tim Walls feels more like the experience I'm having as a millennial where I can't afford a home, where I don't have equity, where I'm constantly trying to pay off my bills. And The finance, what we'll say is like, hey, this guy's not very financially astute. He doesn't even own his own home.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Well, he's been a teacher, right? So maybe people say, you know what? I feel, I identify more with Tim Walz. And I think that's actually what might be happening here. Public school teacher, right? Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Which is a noble thing to be. And I think there's probably a large percentage of the country who feels like they're not part of the equity economy. They don't own a home.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
They don't own equities. And they have been shut out from this. And all these rich people like Trump and JD Vance and venture capitalists are running the table on them. And I think that might be why we're seeing, even if the four of us disagree with it, we might be seeing someone like Tim Walz actually being a feature.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Yeah. It's generating, it's triggering people is what you're saying. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Sachs, what do you think of this framing? You have two candidates who are career civil servants who have dedicated their life to that, but who in one case doesn't own his home, doesn't own any equities. In the other case, Kamala does have a bunch of equity and some private wealth versus the capitalists. It looks like this actually is an interesting framing, socialism versus capitalism.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
What's your thought on that framing?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
They created a middle class.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So Chamath, let me go to you next, because you pointed out that these numbers seemed a little fugazi fugazi. But we have 162 million people record employed in the country. This number, if it's 162, you take out 800, it's 161. This is what the Fed has been trying to do to cool off inflation, right? We needed to see a little bit less employment, and that's part of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
It's just a question mark for me. Yeah. 58% of Americans own equities. And that includes like retirement accounts. So it's not like they're actively day trading. And so, you know, that does actually, Sachs, paint an interesting picture where maybe the Democratic Party now, which they've referred to themselves, Bernie and Elizabeth Warren, as a socialist, as socialist Democrats.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Maybe this is like part of their feature is to appeal to that large swath of people who don't own their homes, who don't have kids. And, you know, to JG's point about cat ladies and to, you know, who don't own homes, don't have kids and don't have equities. What are your thoughts on that, Sax? Is that maybe how these parties are starting to shape up in the modern era?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Tax the rich is a recurring theme. And that's actually a great jump off point here because the big news in our circles this week and on social media was and some of the group chats. is that Harris has reportedly backed some of Biden's really out there tax plans, which include a proposed 25% wealth tax on people with over $100 million in assets.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Important to note that this would be very hard to pass because getting these tax increases, you'd have to get through Congress, et cetera. But let's just talk about what the proposal is because it's out there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
in Biden's 2025 tax plan, which the campaign has said to Semifor, which is a niche publication, like a newsletter company, that, and I'll just give the quote, in a little notice portion of its Friday analysis of Harris's new economic plans, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget wrote that her campaign said,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So I guess the silver lining here is if we are revising these numbers down, that would give more of an indication that we've slowed the economy, correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
it endorsed the suite of revenue options included in President Joe's recent budget. And that's the FRB report said, quote, the campaign has communicated to us that Vice President Harris continues to support all of the revenue raising provisions in the president's 2025 budget. So there is continuity confirmed between Harris and Biden's plans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I'll just explain as simply as I can what this extreme plan says, and then I'll get Chamath your take on it. Biden's proposed 2025 tax plan includes the following. 25% unrealized cap gain tax on those with over 100 million assets. 28% corporate tax rate. Right now it's 21. Trump had proposed a 15% rate and quadrupling the stock buyback tax to 4%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
That's when a company buys their own shares as opposed to putting it to work in the market. The stock buyback tax was created as Biden's Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. It's just 1% if you want to buy back your shares like Apple and some other companies do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
But let's unpack the 25% unrealized cap gains, because that seems to be, you know, the most, let's say, I don't want to say triggering, but the one that's triggered the most number of people. There's 5,000 people who fit into that category. What do you think, Chamath, of this proposal? Fair? Unfair?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Anti-American?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And you're referring to removing, I think you're implying people might be able to move to other places and create companies there. Is that what I'm reading into it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
You already have a bunch of hedge fund manners moving over there, right, Shamath? People are starting to buy apartments in Abu Dhabi.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And that was during World War II and the post-war era. Freeberg, your thoughts on this proposal specifically, which impacts a very small number of people, although maybe a high percentage here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Let's pause there for a second, Freeberg, because this is super important, I think, to the audience here. Somebody has a startup company. It becomes worth $10 billion. It has $100 million in revenue. It's doing well. It's losing money. 409 valuation comes in. founder owns 25%, co-founders own 25% each. They own two or $3 billion in stock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Now you've got an illiquid founder who owns $3 billion in stock. Company's not going public. There's no secondary market. What would happen to that founder? Would
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Is this a seizure of assets in your mind? Is it constitutional in your mind? Two questions there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
This is going to put so much cold water on the entrepreneurial market. It's going to make people just have less liquidity to invest in things. I think this is going to be disastrous. It's going to cause a lot of people to retire early because they just don't want to deal with all this. Well, Friedberg, what's your theory?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Oh, theory. Here we go. Good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
He's taking a stray.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And it could easily, Chima, that's a real head scratcher to me. This could easily be crowdsourced or we could pull data from a lot of different places. Obviously, they pull some data from employment roles. But I remember you had a startup. I can't remember the name of it. But you had crowdsourced.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
All right, everybody. This has been another amazing episode of the All In Podcast. Socialism is garbage and it turns into communism. No, I'm exacerbated. I mean, if Kamala doesn't get out there and start doing some interviews and explaining herself, I'm out. I mean, I'm out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
I mean, it may have already happened. Anyway. Anyway. Oh my God, that's so funny.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
No, I mean, I just, we need to get Kamala on this program here. Face the music. Let's go. You want to run for president? Come on all in and let's talk about it. If she's not going to answer basic questions, it's disqualifying for me. Who's trying to get her? Is anyone trying to? She wants on it. I mean, she wants on it. But I mean, we'd love to have her on. We'd love to have JD on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
We'd love to have Waltz on. Let's go. Let's have some real conversations about this stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
People were going around and taking pictures of the price of tomatoes in different places and then putting it into a database and organizing, I think, for hedge funds and other folks, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
By the way, this happened in France. I mean, they literally did this. They tried it. A lot of French citizens all of a sudden became citizens of Russia.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Love you guys. So everybody, thanks for coming to the All In Podcast, episode 193. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And now, the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles, September 8th, 9th, and 10th. You can apply for tickets, summit.allinpodcast.co. And you can subscribe to this show on YouTube. Yes, watch all the videos. Our YouTube channel has passed 500,000 subscribers. Shout out to Donnie from Queens. Follow the show, x.com slash the all in pod. TikTok, the all in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Instagram, the all in pod. LinkedIn, search for all in podcast. And to follow Chamath, he's x.com slash Chamath. Sign up for his weekly email. What I read this week at chamath.substack.com and sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and see what all the excitement is about. Follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs and sign up for Glue at glue.ai. Follow Friedberg, x.com slash friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. I am the world's greatest moderator, Jason Calacanis. If you are a founder and you want to come to my accelerators and my programs, founder.university, launch.close.apply to apply for funding from your boy, JCal, for your startup. And check out athenowow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
This is the company I am most excited about at the moment, athenowow.com, to get a virtual assistant for about $3,000 a month. I have two of them. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. You can help by telling just two friends. That's all I ask. Forward. this podcast to two friends and say, this is the world's greatest podcast. You got to check it out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
It'll make you smarter and make you laugh, laugh while learning. We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Wait, wait.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Okay, Freeberg, here's a chart for you to comment on. Maybe we open the aperture here. Total employment and unemployment here in the United States, as you can see, you know, since the 80s, population has grown and the number of people employed has continued to grow. Labor participation, it kind of peaked in the 90s in the Clinton era, and it's come down a bit since then.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
But overall, what do you think of the health of the economy and employment?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And Sachs, here's the dramatic Fed. We always talked about them kind of getting on this a little bit late. But you can see here, man, what a ramp up in 2022, where we were basically at a quarter point and they just added a quarter point of 50 bps all the way up to 5.33, where we've been flat. Inflation, obviously, we have the two handle now. So now we start the process of going down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
And I think people generally believe 25 bps at a time will be their pattern coming down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Sacks has a urinal. Whenever Sacks gets a new home, he puts urinals in. That's how much of a man he is. Sacks, how does your staff hold your body while you pee?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So either mission accomplished, or we'll see if we have a soft landing, hard landing, or something in between. Most people feel like it's going to be soft with a little bit of bumps. It seems direction correct to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
Yeah. And it doesn't seem like either of the incoming administrations really cares about spending. Seems like we're going to be in still big money spending mode, independent of who wins. We'll see how long that can last as a country. And then we talked a little bit about the Supreme Court decision last year around affirmative action and It turns out now MIT has released their data.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
It's getting a lot of buzz online. Here's a chart. Basically what you can take from this chart, and this is people self-identifying at MIT, and the buzz is that Asian Americans have gone from 41% to 47%, and those gains came on a percentage basis from a decline in the number of Black and Latino students coming in. Here's the chart, as you can see.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So people are wondering about, I guess, the fairness of this. And I guess you could have either one of two positions, Chamath. Asian students were being penalized for a long time. Or now, I guess you could believe that Latin and Black students are being impacted negatively about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Massive jobs revision, Kamala's wealth tax, polls vs prediction markets, end of race-based admissions
So I'm not sure what your take is, but it's obviously moving to more of a meritocracy, according to the people at MIT.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
All right, everybody, welcome back to the All In podcast. The channel's been active. We're in the afterglow. We're in the All In Summit afterglow. It's so glowing that Friedberg couldn't make it. He has been riding a high.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, Sax, we were talking about AI in the group chat, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I mean, that's how it should go. You know, when you create something in the world, Chamath, what you want to do is you want to hand it off to professional management to then scale it, right? Not everybody can do the creative act of actually forming something. You need to have these operators to go and then execute your vision.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I agree with that massively. And I think there's another underreported story, which is People don't like to call and talk to a customer service agent, like an actual human, if they can avoid it. They would much rather go on YouTube and say, how do I fix this? Or ask ChatGPT, how do I fix this? It's like, I don't want to waste another person's time. Just give me the answer as quick as possible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And AI will give you the answer quicker. YouTube will give you the answer quicker. I've had so many times where I have people who work for me who are like, I don't know how to do that. And I literally would walk up to their computer and load YouTube and type in, how do I blank and there's a video there, watch it on two speed, you can do it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
That's what's, you know, gonna also kill this, like, I don't want to talk to a human, just change my flight, just You know, answer my question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Where would you move those people?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, it could be the end of the entire career as well, Chamath, if you were to look at this four by four sort of quadrant chart that Sachs is describing, which is the cost of an era, you know, and the actual complexity of the job, perhaps, or the cost of the job. How do you look at this? I know you're working on software that kind of does this with your startup as well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And I just want to give Free Breakfast Flowers for executing incredibly well. We all play a role, Chamath. Saks launched a tequila company. I want to say thanks to Friedberg. He did all of these great speakers. Big thank you to our CEO, John, who put together all the operations. Nick did incredible. Nick did incredible, incredible job with those opening graphics. They went viral.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
It's really... Have you guys worked with the O1 preview yet? I just literally have been using this new reasoning engine that... OpenAI released, and it is extraordinary. And it's kind of thinking about the next three or four prompts you would do. And I literally just got this while we're on the show. I've hit the limit for my paid account because this thing is so intense on compute, I guess.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Zach helped with the graphics. You had young Spielberg chipping in. You had Laura did an amazing job with stage management. And of course, you know, I focused on the moderation. I got a lot of great things. So everybody plays a role. You got Saks with the tequila, Friedberg, Laura, Zach, Spielberg, Nick, John, everybody brought something to the table. So congratulations to everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
It's just too easy. You'll be able to do it on a local computer. I mean, you'll just download the entire database of every call on a MacBook with an M3 and just run it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Yeah. I mean, to restate it, watch people use a piece of software and then based on what they do, you could write the code, which you could take a video of a video game today, like Angry Birds. And somebody did this. You give the Angry Birds iPad game from 15 years ago to AI, it's going to back into the code. just by watching it. So why not just watch people use Salesforce or Workday?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
That's it. Scale through people. That's it. Nobody got the joke. Chamath, everybody contributed. You understand? Saks, new tequila company. John, operations. You have Freebird content. Me with being the world's greatest moderator up there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
It's built on top of Oracle's PeopleSoft suite, which they refused to customize without an extra 400 million to hit 1 billion. New Yorkers got the image below and pay 5 million plus a year for hosting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Oh, yeah. Chamath showed up. Chamath looked great. He showed up and looked great. I brought my two votes and I brought my vision. Absolutely. I would also say... Fan favorite. What you really did that was amazing was you took a lot of selfies. I was very proud of both of you with the fan service. The fans were very pleased that you guys took so many selfies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
They're going for retro. They were going for retro. They wanted to harken back to the 90s.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
There must be some regulatory capture going on here where somebody's got a record. No, I think it's relationships. That's what I'm saying. Like a 10-year relationship with somebody in Albany that, you know, worked at Oracle previously.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
So let's go for it. In related news of our government burning our money, Raw broadband, rural broadband and EV charging, $42 billion and $7.5 billion, almost $50 billion combined. Let's just go over these two programs real quickly here. Both were part of the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill in 2021.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
$42 billion carved out to provide high-speed internet to people living on farms in rural locations. $7.5 billion carved out to build 500,000 EV chargers over 10 years. It's been 1,000 days since the bill was passed, so let's check on the progress. Zero people have been connected, according to FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr. And eight.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight EV chargers have been built as of May, according to AutoWeek magazine. What's even crazier, private industry already solved these problems. United Airlines just announced they're putting Starlink on a thousand of their planes and they're going to offer it for free. And Starlink now has 2,500 planes under contract. with a bunch of other airlines.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And in the second half of 2023 alone, the private sector built over a thousand charging stations in the US. These are two problems that have already been solved, Sax. Why are we burning $50 billion in the future with On things that have already been solved. We've solved for this. I own electric cars. I have Starlink.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Graft. Keep going. I mean, you tell me. Corruption, graft, buying votes from your constituents?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Incompetence, yes. Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And why even pay for its tax? Why are we paying for it if it's available for 100 bucks?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
You know, we got a lot of feedback too coming in. So... It was pretty great feedback.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I mean, he voted for Hillary and Obama, he said.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, we need to investigate. I mean, I think how we got to the point of wasting $50 billion- That requires an investigation, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Oh, my Lord.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
What do you think?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And buying votes by giving this money to other vendors who are giving them donations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And the incentives really matter. If you look at a private company, if you were at Klarna, and to our previous story, and you go to the boss and say, I know how to get rid of these, this wasteful spending we're doing here, we can get rid of all tier one calls with AI and save that money, you get a promotion. If you're in the government, he
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I agree. It was absolutely fantastic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
You can't, if you're a politician and you cut this program, your constituents get upset, you don't have that stuff being built in your district, there's a perverse incentive that you can't buy the votes, which is why these folks are constantly trying to buy votes. And then the second-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And we have to celebrate it. That's the key. If we can celebrate people saving money again, like Malay is getting a lot of credit. And that's up to us, leadership and podcasting or the media, or influential people have fallen. So if you point out, hey, this is a waste, go save this money, and somebody does save the money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, it's a fair point. People did say my moderation was dialed in, and I appreciate that positive feedback from everybody. And yeah, there is something to having people you can trust with the content.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, why don't we start celebrating people saving the money and doing the right thing here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Here's an idea, save money, get the best solution at the lowest price and then reevaluate that as you go. And I just wanna point out with the, this is a subtle point, but Elon also open sourced his patents for the superchargers and let anybody do them. And he opened up the superchargers to other vehicles, which he didn't have to do.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And when they gave him a loan back in the Solyndra days and the Fisker days, remember they gave these incentives in the form of loans? He's the only guy who paid it back. Everybody else failed. So now you're punishing the guy who actually built the infrastructure for both of these projects.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
So the reward for actually doing the right thing, which Starlink did, SpaceX did, and Tesla did, is to be punished. And then you're giving a leg up to somebody else who's building these charges. Who's more qualified to build these charges at scale? Or a satellite network at scale? The person who's already done it. He's already done it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I mean, we're talking about laying fiber lines, cable modems to people who are hundreds of miles into the countryside. That makes no sense when you can just beep, put a satellite dish up today. What are we even talking about here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, let's use this podcast. If you see government waste, tell us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I mean, that would be... So they're giving the money away and they're so incompetent they're not getting the political benefit from it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Let's start a running list.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
On this program, we'll do it at the end of the show. Every time we'll have a running list at all in.com of just every one of these scandals and we'll feature it. So leak it to us first. Send it to us. My DMs are open. All right, listen, early stage investing has always been hard. There was a tweet storm this week that Y Combinator might be having a hard time replicating their early success.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
We'll discuss it now. A thread this week from ex-user Molson Hart caught a couple of people's eyes. He made the case that it's been a rough decade for YC based on the accelerator's top companies page. YC lists its top companies by 2023 revenue there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And you'll notice there's not a lot of companies from the recent cohorts out of the 50 companies featured, only three are from the classes after 2020, most of them being from the early 2010s. Obviously, that's because they've been around longer, but it sparked a big discussion that there were so many winners from the 2009 to 2016 era, and that maybe the class size at YC has expanded a whole bunch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And maybe that's part of the problem. But there's a bigger problem in VC that we've talked about here. Here's a chart from Carta that just shows the percentage of VC funds that have made a distribution since 2017. Over 40% of 2018 vintage funds have not made a single distribution yet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And it's getting to the point, year five, six, or seven, where you probably should have had some distributions occur. Obviously, a lot of this has to do with maybe M&A and those early wins being taken off the table. We've talked about that a whole bunch, but here's the chart that kind of gets really interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
An explosion in fund managers occurred, as we all know, and this chart shows from PitchBook, the first-time VC managers that raised a second VC fund as a share of all first-time VC managers, and it's now down from above 50% to below 50%. gosh, 15%. So what are your thoughts here, Shama?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And that was M&A in year, what, five or six sacks?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I do agree with that. I was talking to Jade about it and she said, and Nick also pointed out, you were really dialed in, Jake. What's up? And I said, I'm not worrying about the party and the vendors and the front desk and the sponsors. And it is actually, you're able to focus. Did you have some favorite moments yourself there, Sax?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, and thank God for the secondary markets even emerging, because at the same time that the secondary markets emerged and people were willing to buy venture assets going into their second decade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Yeah. And I took advantage of almost every time I had one of those opportunities to sell some shares, pair some positions. And that's how we got our DPI as well, because let's face it, Melina Khan and the anti-tech sentiment has led to these large companies not buying startups. And instead, they compete with them. They just say, we'll build it in-house because you're not letting us buy it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And it's broken the entire ecosystem now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Any favorite moments for you or panels or things maybe that exceeded expectations for you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, Saks, right now we're seeing people do things like selling their early SpaceX or their early Stripe, whatever it is, to other VCs, to later stage funds, a lot of ways to try to secure DPI. What's your thoughts on the state of venture today, given all this data that we're looking at today?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
amount of reach yeah and that's just youtube we're not doing it on the podcast feed right now youtube and x well hopefully we get it on the podcast feed we get another 50 million uh but uh freeberg's in his afterglow couldn't make it but he's very busy right now look how happy is the summit went well is that marijuana I think he's making potatoes. I think that's his farm.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I would say that was my favorite of the event. One of the best panels I've ever been part of. It's the most viewed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And vintage distortion is so real. It's very hard to understand how each of these vintages with your late bloomers or overpriced things, companies getting $100 million rounds at a billion dollar valuation before they have product market fit. And those distortions,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
were just so pronounced the last five to 10 years that we're now sorting them out like a house of mirrors where you don't know who's tall, who's fat, who's skinny, what the reality is here. And the other big thing is this peanut butter effect that I tweeted about today. During peak Zerp, you had all these exceptional team members
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
You know, the number two, three, four, five person at a company that was doing great, they would leave to start their own company. So the talent got spread. Then you had so many of these founders rushing into the same vertical. So you'd have 20 startups because there was too much capital pursuing the same opportunity. You pursued the same opportunity. What happens to earnings?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
They get spread then. What happens to customers? They get spread across 20 different products competing for the same customer. And then what happens with, you know, ownership stakes for us as GPs and LPs, Chamath, the ownership stakes, because the valuations went up so much, they got spread like peanut butter. And instead of a Series A getting you 20% of a company, it got you 10.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Instead of a C-check getting you 5%, it got you one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I don't know what it is, but we need to do something because the status quo doesn't work. I think there's so many good points that we're hitting here. I'll just say the other thing to build on your point about, hey, these take less capital. You have to look at what does your ownership, after you've been diluted half by 50% as a seed or series A investor, you're going to be down to half.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
So if you own 10%, you own five. If you own seven like YC or we do in a company, you're going to own three. You're going to really have to model out, is the valuation you're looking at, what does it pencil out to for an outcome?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And when I did this with our investments, I saw a leak in my game, which was, hey, I'm putting $100K into a $25 million round or a $50 million round as a follow-on investment to support the founder. okay, what does that do for my LPs? Well, that 100K would need to hit some extraordinary outcome, five, 10, 20, $40 billion in order for us to return the fund.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
So now my team understands, hey, take that 125K, that 250K, that 500K, do four more accelerator companies with it because those could return the fund. And that fund math, people stopped doing. I think all these fund managers who are getting wiped out, they never penciled out What does this company I'm giving a million dollars need to hit in order for me to return my fund?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And now they're finding out that it doesn't work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
That was nuts, man.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
If you could return capital, you're going to look like a Euro. Also, Chamath, I remember, I don't know if it was Michael Moritz or Doug Leone, but I was talking to Sequoia about the time dispersion of your fund, like over what period of time are you deploying a fund? And man, people started deploying funds in 18 months because they can raise the next fund so quick.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
So like, screw it, I'm gonna deploy this fund in 18 months, 24 months. And LPs were saying to me like, what period are you gonna deploy this? And I said, well, you know, I was taught by Fred Wilson and this person, 36 months, 48 months would be a good, window to deploy capital because, you know, it smooths it out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
This is why it's so important as a fund manager or an entrepreneur for you to get great advice from people who've been at this for a long time and focus on the process. You cannot control all these outcomes. You cannot control all these meta events. What you can control is your relationship with your customers, building a team, making great bets, supporting late bloomers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
That's the critical part of all this is the process and you can make your process better. And so with my team internally, I'm constantly talking to them about our selection of companies, how we help companies get pulled through and get downstream funding. Literally, our big effort this year is how do we introduce our companies to the top VC firms?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And we've been working on that as an internal project, right? Of just getting our great breakout companies to the best investors to increase our pull through. It is a process and you have to trust and focus on the process. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Well, give us your thoughts. You know, there's an all in Twitter handle and he's Chamath David Sachs. And I'm at Jason and Freeberg's at Freeberg. Just tell us who you think would be great. But, Sachs, I know you're super excited and want to give Biden his flowers. The Fed just cut rates 50 bips and the stock market is tearing it up right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
All right. Chamath had to go do work, apparently, starting this new concept, SACS, where Chamath is actually going to work at a company. We never got to talk about the debate because we were busy doing the summit and we took the week off from a new episode. People wanted to hear your take. What did you think of Kamala and Trump, the one and only debate we're going to hear, apparently? Any thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
She was well-prepared, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And it's working apparently, right? It seems like it's helping her.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I mean, every day it's like a poll going one way or the other. I mean, this is the closest of our lifetime, maybe. Or that I can remember. I mean, it's nuts how this thing has flipped over and over again. What did you think of Trump's performance? Were you disappointed? There were some rumors, people were a little upset that he doesn't prep as much as he should. What's your advice there?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
On Wednesday, Fed cut interest rates by a half a percentage point. Taking them down off of a 23-year high. We've been talking about this, God, for two years here on this podcast. First rate cut since March of 2020, which is about when we started this podcast. Jay Powell basically said the Fed thinks inflation is coming down to around 2% nicely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And it might've thrown him off a little bit. I noticed like, it was like, he, I agree. They going into it, I think they need to negotiate in the future. You know how they're negotiating the microphones on or off, audience on or off. I think they should negotiate. Are we fact-checking in real time or are we not fact-checking? And who's doing that fact-checking?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Yes, for people who don't know that, there's been selective edits. I mean, there's been selective edits forever, but that one is particularly egregious.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Yeah, because he was talking about the bloodbath and EVs. Yeah, and just make it into a January 6th extension, which it's not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And let's also be honest, like Trump is hyperbolic. So if you are going to say, you know, oh, we're going to fact check Trump, like there's a lot of material there. And he just he's a hyperbolic guy. That's kind of his shtick, right? I mean.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Apparently she's pro-gun. I thought that was like a great moment for her. Objectively, I think, and I've said this forever here on this show, putting our feelings aside about the candidates, I think whoever comes across as the most normal or the most moderate is going to win. And I think she's done a great job of like... convincing those moderates that she's not crazy and he is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
What are your thoughts on that? Because people looked at this very podcast and they've said to me, my God, that's the Trump I want to vote for, that Trump 2.0, the all-in Trump. And then people are like, ah, he's going back to the insult comic Trump, but I don't want the chaos. What are your thoughts on moderates specifically in the swing states and this sort of strategy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And they don't want the job market to soften any further than it already has. He also mentioned immigration has helped soften the market, the labor market as well, obviously, with all those new people looking for jobs. So in the last two months, July and August, CPI has been at a two handle. We talked about that 2.9% in July, 2.5% in August. Here's the CPI over the last decade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Why is that? Because she's, isn't she pro-Union as well? He was Union Joe. So, I mean, it was like in the name. I understand why they loved him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Limousine liberals is what they used to be called. But I like yours, wine liberals or the woke wine liberals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Let me ask you a challenging question, because one of its likes when I ask you a challenge a bit. If Trump loses, what do you think will be the cause of the loss? If he loses, like strategically, when we look back on the last six months, what do you think you would change? What would cause it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
On which aspect? Be more specific. Give me a specific question.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Yeah, that's a good question. If she ends up winning, I think it will be that people believe that they, I think it will be that moderates in those swing states, and women, believe that it's too much chaos and that Trump will be too much, they want a calmer, same thing reason Biden won, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Obviously, massive boom in interest that you see there from 2021 to 2023. Many obviously think we're going to have more rate cuts, probably 25 every meeting for a little bit. And Dow's already at an all-time high, surged 300 points on the news. Here's some interesting data about the 50 basis point kickoff cuts. So this is where it gets interesting, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Like that there's this like concept that the adults are in the room and it will be calm and it won't be chaotic. And I think people just still see Trump as a bit chaotic. And I think that's the big fear. And I think they've played the abortion card and the right to choose really well. Even though Trump said it here, I'm not gonna sign the abortion ban, I'm pro-IVF.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I think they have that really great win of saying, hey, you bragged about overturning Roe v. Wade. Probably wasn't smart to brag about that. And they have that clip that they can keep reinforcing. So if he does lose, and I don't know that he's going to lose, I think there's a lot of people who are going to go in there and vote for him
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
but not say it to pollsters and not say it to their family and friends because they're embarrassed because of the pressure against orange Hitler. Oh, you know, this whole rhetoric that he's going to, you know, overturn democracy. So I think it's a pretty good chance that he's going to win. Actually. I don't think that this, I mean, look, I think in a close race, right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
They say the statistics in a close race favor him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And he sets himself up for it. You know, like part of what makes him activate the base is that erratic behavior, his shtick, you know, the comedy. And then I do believe that it gets weaponized by the press because it's like such so easy for them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Oh, I think they're just stacking them. Yeah, the answer to that question is just throw everything you got at him.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And Megyn Kelly said it. I mean, Megyn Kelly thinks she's stupid and not bright. I mean – And she's not the most dynamic speaker, that's for sure. And she doesn't seem to be able to have a dynamic debate with intelligent people who are experts in their field, let's say. You know, she can't hold her own in the way you can see J.D. can. Right. And Trump can. So here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And just on the on the second assassination attempt, I don't know if you even want to go there. But I mean, gosh, I'm so glad that. he didn't get shot at again. This is scary stuff, folks. This rhetoric's got to come down. I keep saying it. Nobody wants to listen to me, but man.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
1% of your followers is what I tell everybody, high profile people you and I both know, is 1% of people in your following, and we all have large followings here, and there's certainly people who have extremely large followings, 1% are mentally ill. Like when I say mentally ill, I mean severely mentally ill. And if it's but 1% of your following, if it's 0.1%, this could be thousands of people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Fed only started publicizing their interest rate changes in 1994. Since 94, Fed has initiated a cutting cycle six times. Here's the chart. Take a good look at that. 95, 98, 2019, they started with 25 bps. 01 and 07, after the great financial crisis, they started with a 50 bp cut. So obviously, there was an emergency 50-bip cut in March of 2020 when COVID hit. 01, 07, 2020, very severe situations.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And this is what happened to John Lennon and other famous people who've been killed, tragically, is those mentally ill people interpret things in a very different way. And when you say, you know, a phrase that has triggers in it, threat to democracy, fight like hell, whatever it is, they interpret it differently. And so just please, folks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Stay safe. Please tone down the rhetoric, everybody. And we will see you next time on the All In podcast. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And what happened in the markets is what I want to discuss with both of you today. In 2001, market fell 31% in the two years after that rate cut. In 2007, market fell 26% after two years. So And 2020, despite all the fears, market ripped 44% over two years. What's the more likely scenario, Chamath? Is this similar to the dot-com great financial crisis or similar to 2020?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
But I mean, the smile is incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
He's in fantastic. That's Freeburg's Founder Mode. He's eating the bog. His Founder Mode gives him the munchies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Sax, any thoughts here? Just balls and strikes?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Reading the tea leaves into why 50, because they could just do 25 a month for five months as opposed to 50.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Rain Man, David Sackett.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
he is uh he's in the afterglow um and he won't be with us this week um but he uh he organized such a great conference don't you think jaco he did great uh i mean he really took charge of that and he crushed just an amazing job i would like to give him his flowers absolutely it is like at least a trillion times better than the first and at least 50 better than the second
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And I think so much of this has to do with unemployment. We had that period where so many jobs were available. Remember, we talked about it here, 11, 12 million jobs available at the peak. We can debate the numbers, of course, but we all saw it where you just couldn't hire talent in America. There was so few people available to take positions. And man, has that changed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
And you get to see it on the ground in early stage startups where This whole narrative, I don't know if you saw it in your board meetings, but hey, we can't find a person. Hey, we're looking. Hey, that search is still going. We're still looking for a director of sales. We're still looking for salespeople. We're still looking for developers. We're still looking for operations people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Now it's the opposite. It's like, I just, I'm hiring producers here in Austin because I'm building my in-person studio. We had like... I don't know, a dozen viable candidates for this position. And I had a hard time picking between, you know, the top three. Now, that's distinctly different than my experience for the last five to 10 years, where you were like, how do we fill this role?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
So I think that employment has been broken. And that's the thing that has me concerned, because with all these people who came in through the southern border, and then you have people outsourcing to other countries, I wonder if Americans... are going to lose so many of these mid-paying jobs. And this will dovetail into our next story about Amazon making cuts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
I'm very worried about the hollowing out of the upper middle class, that elite group of $150,000 jobs that then employ nannies and spend money in the economy. I wonder, I don't know if you're seeing that in your company, Sachs?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
You have disdain for them. But I mean, just in terms of the labor market, what do you see, you know, in companies right now, you know, hiring the talent pool, et cetera?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
He's superb.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Rain Man, David Sack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Rain man, David Sacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Queen of Kinwada.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service failure, Inside the RNC, VC liquidity problem
Really?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So certainly not- In the same week, we had the Golden Gate Bridge get shut down. The Bay Bridge gets shut down as well. Chamath, your thoughts on these protests, and then obviously the entitlement issues that Freiburg alludes to specifically at Alphabet slash Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Sacks, I don't know if you have any opinions on this. I didn't see anything in the docket. I'm not sure if you have any strong feelings here. But your thoughts on Google employees and the protests, putting aside you know, the nature of the protest. This could be for BLM. This could be for Trump's indictments. You could be protesting any number of things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But the protesting at work issue and then Google specifically, which we talked about with the Gemini issues and, you know, this stuff bleeding over into product. I think Freeberg said it really nicely. Hey, are people actually focused on products at Google anymore? Or is the whole place just focused on social issues that have nothing to do with their waning, apparently, product center?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Great idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, it's just, I was invited. I couldn't make it, so sorry. And thank you to Julia and- Yuri for inviting us again. But it's really great that they're giving it the celebration it deserves and making it, you know, like, dare I say, sexy and cool and hip to be a scientist and solve the world's biggest problems. I think it's just so awesome. And you're right, Sergey Brin and Wojciechowski
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Interesting question, you know, putting aside what they're protesting about, I think they knew, or some number of them knew they were going to get fired. So I think they're kind of resigning by sit-in. And I think, yeah, there could be nobility to that. If you do not want to participate in in supporting things in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You do not have to work at Google and you can protest and you can get fired. And we've seen some pretty intense protests. I don't know if you guys are aware of like what Greenpeace and other environmentalists did to stop whaling. I'm sure you are aware, Friedberg, for your passion on the subject. Those people went to jail in Japan for boarding Japanese whaling ships.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Those are really intense protesters. But then to your point, Shamath, you can really hurt your cause. Climate activists have been throwing paint on works of art. I don't know if you've seen that. And that's just infuriating. I have no tolerance for people destroying works of art or attempting to get attention. Here, it is benign to sit in an office and get fired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Sak and Priscilla and Julia and Yuri are the founders of the Breakthrough Prize.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So I just consider it resigning by sit-in. If they want to do that, that's fine. I do think there is something to Google enabling all this, to your point, Friedberg, over time. And listen, they were parodied on Silicon Valley, the TV show, because of how coddled and entitled people are. So there's a bunch of things going on at the same time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And if you want to do these intense protests, you have the right to do them. And history will judge you over time. But you need to be able to pay the price. In this case, the price is getting fired. In the case of shutting down the Golden Gate Bridge, you should get a fine for doing that, I believe. And the fine should be based on whatever that costs to shut that bridge down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And that's got to be a serious fine. And you're right, Chamath. People, if there's an emergency situation, somebody's got to get to a hospital or something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm also shocked that these people actually came to an office. I mean, these Googlers, I don't think they've actually been to an office before. They probably had to check that their badges were.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You know, it dovetails nicely with the discussion you all had last week about would you back Not a defensive, but an offensive weapons company, a technology company. And it seemed like you all had reservations on if you would not back a defensive one. Anybody, I think, reasonably would back a defensive dome or interception of bombs coming in. That's an easy one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But going around the horn here, how many of us would back a company making missiles or bombs that blow people up or mines?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They should say, I'm proud to get fired because that's how much I believe in it. My stock options at... Google are less important than this issue to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Mission accomplished for them. We're talking about it here as the top story. And, you know, if that was their, if they wanted to raise awareness, they succeeded and they should just own their firing because they knew they would get fired, I think. All right. There has been a ton of chaos and the culture wars continue over NPR.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
A couple of things happened simultaneously this week that are worth discussing. Catherine Marr was named NPR's new CEO back in January. I'm going to have to give a little bit of a timeline here before I get comments from the boys because there's a little setup. And so she was named the CEO back in January. She officially started in March. Okay, she formerly worked at Wikimedia Foundation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Those are the people who run the Wikipedia, obviously. NPR's mission, if you don't know, is to create a more informed public, one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas, and culture. That's their stated mission from their website.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
On April 9th, Uri Berliner, an editor who's been with NPR for 25 years, wrote an op-ed for Barry Weiss's Free Press, friend of the pod, explaining how NPR lost America's trust by going hard left and becoming close-minded. He said, quote, an open-minded spirit no longer exists within NPR. And now, predictably, we don't have an audience that reflects America.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Last Friday, Maher put out a statement calling his actions profoundly disrespectful, hurtful, and demeaning. This Sunday, conservative activist Christopher Ruffo, he's the person who exposed former Harvard president's Claudine Gay's plagiarism. He's a vocal critic of LGBTQ stuff. At schools, started reposting old tweets from Maher, this new CEO.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And I was like, I can't find my chicken fingers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Her tweets are super far left, Trump's a racist, yada, yada. There's an interesting clip of her talking at TED, talking about how truth is a bit of a distraction. And that prevents people from getting things done. People have gotten pretty inflamed about that clip. And then on April 16th, Berliner was suspended for five days without pay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The people at that thing were.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Wrapping this all up, Berliner then resigned after 25 years, saying, quote, I cannot work in a newsroom where I am disparaged by a new CEO whose divisive views confirm the very problems that NPR I cite in my free press essay. Sacks or thots?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Why has this become the topic of the moment?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I agree. It's like a tempest in a teapot, like newsflash. NPR is woke and left-leaning. I mean, I guess maybe that somebody who was there for 25 years wrote the expose is interesting or I don't know. Chamath, any thoughts on this one and why it's taking up so much headspace for people?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
This is just to give people some back of the envelope math. NPR's budget is like 320 million. It's a dollar per American. And they get a bunch of programming fees and some corporate sponsorship. The corporate sponsorship is like 100 million bucks. The programming fees is what the local radio stations pay them. Net-net, this is costing like maybe, I don't know, 30 cents an American.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And if you just swap out, and this is the way I like to look at these to be objective, If you were saying this was funding Fox News or, I don't know, Ben Shapiro and Daily Wire, how would you feel about it? You'd be like, well, why is the government funding that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They should just cut NPR and all this public broadcasting stuff loose over the next year or two, wind it down, and let them fend for themselves in the new media landscape.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. I mean, it's only like they're down to whatever. It's very hard to find the numbers. There's a little like hiding of the money here. But there's so little at stake here. I think that's why it's so contentious.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The next Tempest in a teapot... Is Humane's AI pin getting barbecued by our modern-day Walt Mossberg? Marques Brownlee, who is an awesome YouTuber, I love his reviews. Let's create a bit of a social media Rorschach test here. getting a lot of feels from people in Silicon Valley. Let's just tee this up here. Humane is a hardware startup that you may have heard of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They make an AI-powered wearable computer. It's basically a pin you put on your chest. It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes, maybe half the size of it. It was founded by two Apple execs back in 2018. Raised a quarter of a billion dollars or so. And the device is now in the hands of reviewers. It's pretty innovative. And Marquez talks about how innovative it is in his review.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It will let you talk to it. It's got a camera on it. We'll show it here on the screen. If you're not subscribed to the YouTube channel, just go to YouTube right now and you'll see us playing the video of it. Search for All In. And really interesting interface. It does obviously voice. It connects you to an LLM on the back end.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The breakthrough prize. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't make it. I got invited to. It's so incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So if you want to know, you know, some piece of information, it can answer those questions for you. But Marquez showed it. just absolutely failing at a bunch of tests, being overpriced, and he called it the worst product he's ever reviewed. It's very thoughtful and methodical, but the title is obviously a bit link baiting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
As a co-founder of Engadget, I can tell you, if you want to get a lot of clicks, just say something is the best or the worst ever, and you can get 10 times the views. The pin, according to him, doesn't do anything better than a smartphone. It's slow. It doesn't work. It's often wrong. It's 700 bucks. The battery sucks. So many different ways to go with this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Everybody is talking about it on X and in the media. Where do you stand on this one, Friedberg? both on how people are responding to it in the tech industry as being like anti-tech, anti-innovation versus, hey, it's just a reviewer giving his candid feedback on a product that's clearly not ready for prime time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, sure. You called ****** and rerouted it? I called ****** and said, ****** can't get his chicken tenders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I think that's your key point, Freeberg. That is the best point is these folks come from Apple. They're used to unlimited resources. And what you don't see is all the product Apple doesn't release, right? They never released their car, correct, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You're laughing hysterically at this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Got it. In other words, the reviewers are going to review products and you just got to plow ahead and make a better product.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Here's an idea for the humane team. Be thankful somebody took the time to review your product and give you candid feedback and incorporate it back into your product and make it work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, what are the other high IQ foods?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Actually... I was having a pulled pork sandwich from Bucky's and it helped me solve Wordle for the day before I ate it. So I got Wordle in two tries. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, that one landed. I didn't want that one to land. Yeah, I mean, okay, let me ask this question. Do we think the world, let's say this thing did respond in one second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Right. That's the entitlement is that you don't have enough work on your plate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Tramon's got a CEO job and now he's got to work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
If you're on YouTube, he's kind of like the new Walt Mossberg. He does 20, 30 minute videos. They get millions of views. He's huge. I don't know that he makes or breaks a product, though, by the way. He does not make or break a product. The product makes or breaks itself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So if the car breaks down, the car breaks down. And by the way, Marquez got a little bit of heat just a month ago because he reviewed the Fisker. The Fisker is just a piece of garbage car. He said it's the worst car he's ever reviewed. And you know what? Reviewers exist in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
to inform customers about what products and services they should buy, and then they should inform you to make a better product, period, full stop. There is an easy solution to this, by the way, which Apple... did. They released the Vision Pro as a developer kit. They put a bunch of caveats on it and said, hey, we understand this is high priced. It's a developer kit. This is in beta.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
What Humane should have done is they should have said, this is the Humane beta for developers. I still don't know what it is. What is this? Okay. It's a wearable. It's a square. It has a projector on it. You put your hand out. It projects a little screen that shows you like a computer screen and you can talk to it and ask questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It's taping everything that it sees. It doesn't do that by default, but it could.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Because LLMs suck.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Fantastic. How are you doing, Sax? You okay, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And by the way, most importantly to you, Chamath, it will screw up your fabrics. If you wear this with a Laura Piana sweater, it's going to drag your sweater down. Hold on. You would never attach it to a $6,000 sweater.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, basically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You look like a lunatic. Yes. You're walking around like a crazy person talking to yourself.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
He's coming on the program, I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
There it is, folks. We're back. It's going to be a hell of a show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. Listen, the concept, I think, is good. Wearables are going to provide some distinct value when they work because you don't have to take your phone out. And so the idea behind wearables, like your watch, is, you know, like there are some things I do on my watch now where I don't take my phone out. I'll take the other side of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I use Fitbit. company we invested in and it puts all my workouts on my watch when I'm doing weights. I started doing weights now that's why I look so buff folks. Subscribe to the YouTube channel to see And I do my sets and I log them all with my, my watch. I don't have to take my phone out. That's like the first thing. And then when I'm skiing, I can see each run. I showed you slopes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm not an investor in Chamath where I could see my speed and all that stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. I don't know that everybody will have wearables, but I do find a couple of little things that work for me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
That's why people tweet in. It's the banter.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
How are you doing, Freebird? We got a little scene from the movie, Her. Wow. We're off to a strong start here. Look at all these contributions. I got a shrug from Freeburg. I got a grunt from Saks. Okay, let's get started from Saks. I don't talk about my backgrounds. Let's go. Anything good on the menu tonight, Shamath? I'm coming over for poker. I wanted to know if there's any. Octopus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Did any of you guys read Jonathan Haidt's book, Anxious Generation? It is unbelievably awesome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm not right yet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Stop what you're doing and just listen to the audio book on your walks on Audible. This book is super important and awesome. The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt. I cannot tell you how important it is. Sax, any closing feelings here? You have a take? Any hot takes?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And that was a complaint about this device specifically was that it was detached from the phone. I understand why they want to make it standalone, but And then this opens up all the privacy. Let me ask the panel here, what do you think about this concept of recording the entire world, all these conversations and video with these devices?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I think it's a quick way to get yourself punched in the face. I mean, we saw that with Google Glass. People showed up at bars in San Francisco and parties with these Google Glass things on and literally got punched in the face.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
In Jonathan Haidt's book, he talks about phone lockers for schools and the transformative power they have had. When you go to a school, there are some schools now, high schools, where the students put their phones in specific phone lockers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Oh, so the Greek comes back and you get the octopus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They should ban these devices at schools, 100%. And then at the poker game tonight, we should make people stack their phones and charge somebody $1,000 whoever takes the phone first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Let's do it tonight.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yep. Yeah, you have the DVR of your entire life.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And it is gnarly to think these things will exist. And I think humanity is going to have to make a decision, I think, to fight this or embrace it. I think we should fight it. I think it's going to ruin...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
uh like social existence and it's already ruined poker games etc when everybody's on their phone it's ruined dinner parties when everybody's on their phones the constant distraction is just horrific and it's having a horrible impact on this generation i'll double down on what you're saying it is so lovely to be able to have a dinner where everybody just talks to each other and looks each other in the eyes yes and then when you have a handful of people always on their phone it's depressing
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I am trying to come up with ways to remove these devices from the social settings. I mean, I've been to a couple of parties with high profile people where they have everybody check their phones at the valet in the door. I gotta say, those are the best nights of my life.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They're incredible. And no offense to people who are addicted to their phones. I am to a certain extent. I put my social media at one hour on my phone. My Lord, it is hard to do less than an hour of social media in our job positions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It just shows you how the algorithm is such a key component of that TikTok experience because I had the same experience Shorts serves up garbage. Garbage. Instagram serves up garbage. And then TikTok is just like right into your brain. Kicks ass. It kicks ass. By the way, I want to give another shout out to a book. I miss TikTok. TikTok, I miss you. Yeah, whatever. That's going away. I miss you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Another incredible book. I think we should book this speaker for All In Summit. Bad Therapy, Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up. Abigail Schreier. This book is incredible. And if you read these two books, every parent... Read these two books. And we need to have a conversation on it as parents here. Everybody read these two books. These are my two top choices for the all-in summit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Hooli. Yeah. You know what? It's interesting you bring that up. I had a grilled octopus stand at one of our events, and somebody who is a conscientious consumer of calories lobbied me to take the grilled octopus off of the menu. I won't say who. For what? Wait, what? I got lobbied very strongly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I think it's going to be the topic of our time. All right, let's keep going down this incredible docket. Very important issue for us to talk about. Silicon Valley startups having a bit of a R&D tax problem. Thanks for putting it on the docket here, Freeberg. It's a bit inside baseball, but very important topic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Let's say a company like Acme Corporation generated a million bucks in revenue, and they spent a million bucks on their software developers last year. Let's say they had, I don't know, five developers getting paid 200 grand each. Well, traditionally, this company would pay nothing in income tax, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They spent a million, they deduct that million from the million dollars in revenue that came in, and everything's good. But due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, Starting last year, a provision kicked in forcing companies to amortize their R&D expense over five years. So in this hypothetical situation, the Acme Corporation would amortize 200K a year and pay income tax on the 800K in profits.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
This is brutal, obviously.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Air quotes, profits, correct. And this is absolutely brutal. And a lot of companies took away agency approaches, hoping Congress would fix the issue in January, a bipartisan tax bill that would reverse these changes passed in the House. But the bill has stalled in the Senate. And we got to get this thing fixed because it's going to sink a lot of startups.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Maybe people will start putting their companies in other countries. But it's attached to this child tax credit, which Republicans don't want to pass. So no reversal has happened. Freeberg, you highlighted this for us. Very important topic. Thank you for doing so. as our great contributor here. What are your thoughts on it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And also, how do you define R&D? I was talking to an accountant. He's like, yeah, I don't know if that's R&D. I'm like, you don't know if it's R&D? Like, okay, so if I need some piece of software...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, but if I do bug fixes, is a bug fix R&D, if I make a new feature in an application this year, does it have to be amortized over five years? Have I put a new filter on my Photoshop?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
We're trying to kill innovation in this country. And the two things they've got to solve is this one and then M&A. We've got to have a... better solution for allowing companies to be bought and sold in this or merge in this country. These two things are putting a lot of headwinds on the startup ecosystem and on the venture and the risk taking capital ecosystems.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
If you're in Washington, DC, or you're involved in our government, please solve these two issues. You got to figure out a way to allow companies to be bought and sold. You got to figure out a way to fix this tax issue, or else we're gonna kill a lot of startups, and these are the companies that pay a lot of taxes, and these are the capital gains that fund a lot of states' treasuries.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
unintended consequences are very real. Chamath, you were gonna say something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
This is not financial or accounting advice. Get great representation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
All right, sports betting has gone mainstream. If you don't know, two out of three college students have placed a bet in the last year since the Supreme Court struck down the Amateur Sports Protection Act. 38 states have legalized sports betting. I think that's a great thing, but we're starting to see some weird behavior because of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Tons of sites like DraftKings, FanDuel, ESPN, BET, BET MGM, all of these have broken out. But this week, we started to see some weird behavior. The NBA banned a 24-year-old player, Jonte Porter, for life after a scandal. This one is bizarre and interesting. Porter was bench player for the Toronto Raptors, averaging about 14 minutes per game. It's important.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
On these gambling apps, you can do all kinds of prop bets. For those of you who don't know, prop bets could be things like Steph is going to hit $5.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
threes in the game or lebron's going to score under 30 points you're just betting on unique things that could happen and then you can parlay them together you can put multiple bets together and it automatically gives you a price and you can do really you know deep wagers doing this The NBA found out that Porter was telling people to bet his unders for points and rebounds during certain games.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
During those games, he'd play a few minutes, then check himself out of the game with an illness, quote unquote. Technically, the bet would still count since he played the game, but everybody who bet his unders would win. Normally, nobody would notice this, of course, because he doesn't play that much. He's a bench player. But DraftKings, because they have all the data,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
tipped everyone off because Porter was the biggest moneymaker on March 20th. This led to an NBA investigation. DraftKings will give you a leaderboard of the biggest bets, and they saw that somebody placed an $80,000 bet that Porter would hit the unders on a bunch of different categories. Crazy outlier bet. DraftKings canceled the bet.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The NBA found that Porter separately placed dozens of bets on NBA games using his friend's accounts. winning a whopping $22,000. And this idiot now is banned from life from the NBA, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. But obviously, the NBA has the receipts with DraftKings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah, it's kind of like the fat content. You know, it's kind of like the marbling. It's the marbling. It's the marbling of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Chamath, you owned a NBA team for a little while, and you watched as David Stern, for a decade, you watched as David Stern, who was absolutely opposed to to gambling. And then Adam Silver embraced it. Tell us from your front row seat, your thoughts on wagering in the NBA. And wagering writ large.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Oh, yeah. By the way, thanks, guys. Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, I'm great. I'm feeling great. Yeah, the tooth is healed. I got the implant. You look like you've been eating well. Just only things with above 120.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So compare that to, Chamath, what would happen previously before sports betting was legal in the U.S.,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Do you agree with the lifetime ban or do you think this should be?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Has to be for the NBA to have integrity. Has to be. Yeah, it's really. And what do we think about this becoming legal in the US and people embracing?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Well, no, no. You know what I did was I got off the Wagovi so I could eat more animals. And now I'm getting back on it because I feel so terrible about how many, I was in Austin. I ate everything. Jake, let me ask you a question. Yeah, go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
We know some of those people and it's hard for them to control their sports betting, blackjack playing, other things. They get too into it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But other societies, other geos, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK, they've had this for a while, so they've figured out how to deal with this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And I will tell you, Sax, I'm interested in your position on this because there is a whole system, an ecosystem emerging here. The states are getting massive amounts of revenue. $11 billion generated last year. up 44.5% from 2022. The league is printing money from this, all the leagues. The NBA will generate $167 million from betting this season, up 11% year over year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The sports books, obviously killing it. DraftKings got a $20 billion market cap. And bettors obviously love it. It's more fun. It's making the games more engaging. And the media is loving this. All of the podcasts, Bill Simmons, ESPN, you can't watch a game, you can't hear sports commentary without this being integrated. And it's being integrated at a very fundamental editorial level.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
They're asking the host of these shows their spend and what they're betting on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Absolutely. Absolutely. This is why the Greeks invented so many things. We invented math, plumbing, cities, democracy. All the great things the Greeks created comes from the fact that we ate so many high IQ creatures. Correct.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It's like the new Air Jordans. Sax, what do you think about this just in terms of on a societal basis and the United States... It's sort of like cannabis. This is a new thing for Americans to have access to. There's a lot of weird behaviors going on, edge cases.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But what do you think, net-net, as a society, you take away from the emergence of sports betting and this next generation being so addicted to it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Freeberg, you have any thoughts? You place any bets, Freeberg? You place any bets on sports? I'm curious. I do not. You do not. I don't place bets on sports, but I love playing cards because it's social. Chamath, do you do any sports betting now and again? Maybe on the Super Bowl you get once in a while, you place a bet, a wager?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
That was my exact take, too. Zach, do you ever place any bets? You're not a wager on this stuff either, right? Yeah. You ever bet on chess? Is there any gambling?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Last time I was 1400, I stopped playing him because he would just, I would get to the middle game with Sax. I get like 30 moves in and then he would just smash me. I'm like 800 or something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I don't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to talk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Are you still upset about the octopus stuff?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
What's the best way to get better? Should I get a coach or something, Sax? What's the best way to get better?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Like you learn how to do a night fork or something like that, how to do pins.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Oh, you were over a thousand?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I mean, I see a vegetable and I push it away. I'm like, wait a second.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You feel shame. If you want to get. better at chess.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I think it's really cool that kids are learning this. I know this may be a counter or a contrarian view, but I think kids having access or young adults having access to sports betting, poker, is kind of a good thing if controlled because they're learning about odds and gambling and framing it. I, with my 14-year-old, am doing an allowance. And then I decided to do an investment club.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And so I'm putting $100 every month into like a Robinhood account. And we're going to do like two meetings every month, one to buy a new stock and one to examine our existing stocks. And I'm just starting an investment club.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It's not inaccurate. The barbecue in Austin is so spectacular. Terry Black's beef ribs. I had with a friend of ours, man, they're just dynamite. And then the salt lick brisket, Franklin's brisket. I mean, it is just extraordinary. Shout out to all my barbecue folks there and sorry for triggering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So if anybody's kids are in that age group and they want to join it, let me know because I'm going to do like with the cousins, like a Zoom call every month where we just talk about stocks. And then I'm going to have them actually buy it. so that they can be prepared for the real world and how companies are going. But how do you think about your kids, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Because you got to do this gambling when you were young. Didn't that help you ultimately as an adult?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Anybody else run an illegal business as a kid? I'll tell you about mine after. Zach, do you run any illegal businesses as a kid?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Come on, it's statute of limitations. What did you do? You must have been running some scams. Come on, tell us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
What'd he do? Did he have to do your term papers or something? Did he have to do your essays and clean your bike?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I wouldn't have gotten this guy's money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Come on, Sax, give it up. What was your scam you were running as a kid?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Let's move on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I had two scams. Freeberg, you have a scam when you were running? When you were a kid? Any scams?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I had two really good scams when I was a kid. The first was this guy owed my dad some money for backgammon. My dad was a backgammon shark, and he would play in his bar. When I would show up at 6 in the morning, my dad would be playing blackjack with guys. They would get in deep with him. And so this guy who was in the mob owed my dad some money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And for the VIG, he gave him a copy of The Empire Strikes Back on VHS. And I was like, what? This is before it was out. They had recorded it in the movie theaters in 1984 or something, whenever that came out. And it was a really bad copy. So my dad comes home. He gives me the copy. We watch it. It was incredible. He's like, thanks, Dad. And I got my friend to bring over his VHS.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I made 10 copies of it. I go to school, McKinley Junior High School in Brooklyn, and I sell them for 30 bucks a pop. Oh, my God. Selling like hotcakes. And then I get pinched. Math teacher says, what's going on with these Empire Strikes Back? And I said, what do you mean? I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, I heard you got Empire Strikes Back. He kept your mouth shut.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I looked him dead in the eye and I said, are you interested? The teacher goes, yeah. How much are they? I said, 30 bucks, but I'll give you one for 10. And he said, okay, pull that 10 bucks. I sold my math teacher. I kid you not, the Empire Strike back for 10 bucks. Can you do this whole thing again, but in the Christopher Walken voice? I'm not going to, but I'll give you the other one I did.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The thing that took out the rib was the bison. I'm sorry I was away. Apologies to the audience. It took out a tooth. You know, as far as I feel, worth it. What does a bison rib taste like?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Do this one in the Christopher Walken voice. And so the name of it was Jason's Hot Tapes. And so I made a business card and laminated Jason's Hot Tapes. And I would hand it to people and I'd hand them the Jason's Hot Tape card. And I'd say, give me my card back. But I would just show them that I had a card. Oh, that reminds me, I was also in the fake ID business.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Here's the thing about the fake ID business. The bouncers were like, if you've got money, show us any piece of paper. They knew.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
That was the, that's the key to the racket. Did you put McLovin and University of Hawaii?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
You don't even remember. Mine was like, Raj Patel.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
All right, so I'll give you the second one. Do it in the Christopher Walken voice. So my friend, his brother had a DeLorean. He... I can't do it. I can't sustain it. Anyway, this kid who I grew up with... I should say. Anyway, his name was beep that out. He lived up on 13th Avenue. I go to his house. His brother's got a DeLorean. It was incredible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Man, the beef ribs are very tender. The bison's got a little more chew to it. It's got a little more texture. And they let this thing go at the salt lick for like 12 hours. And they're just barbecue saucing it forever. It's a little chewy. And so that's what took out the tooth. But great job, Freeberg, on moderating. The episode was fantastic.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And we're in junior high school and I'm talking to his brother and I go into the garage and there's all DeLorean parts on the wall. And I said, why do you have all these parts? And he said, oh, you know, there was a DeLorean that, you know, fell apart. And we picked up the pieces. They had stolen another DeLorean because DeLorean stopped producing. And they just chopped it up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
But he had it in his garage. So anyway, we're playing Chessmaster at the time. And I had hacked a copy of Chessmaster. It was very easy to do. And the guy said, you got Chessmaster? Can you get me more copies of that? I said, sure. How many copies do you want? He's like, how many can you make? I was like, well, floppy disk costs four bucks. He's like, I'll give you 10 bucks a copy of Chess Master.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I said, fine. I go, my friend, we go steal floppy disks from the store. So we don't want to pay the four bucks for them. Not the three and a half, the five and a quarters. These are five and a quarters. And we go into the store and we take the flyer And I hold the flyer open, and I hold it behind my back, and my friend takes the discs out of the sleeve at Staples or whatever, dumps them in there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
We made copies of it. And then we were selling Chessmaster for $10 a pop at scale and giving them to the guys on 13th Avenue who were then reselling them for $20. This is when Chessmaster was like a $100 product. Shout out to Chessmaster. That was my second scam business.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yeah. And that's not even the best one. I'll give you the best one. This is the best, and I'll give you the last scam we ran. There were parking permits in the late 80s in Manhattan. They were hard to get, but they were legit. If you had a parking permit in your window for the fire department, police, you know, you could park in Manhattan in a lot of different areas.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And so we went and we took a picture of these. Then we got on PageMaker or whatever. And I went down to Canal Street and I bought at Pearl Paints, like the same color orange and that lamination kit. And we got on Photoshop. I kid you not, we held the picture up and we tried to figure out the fonts they used. And we made a copy. of the placards to park.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And then we sold those for like 50 bucks and people used them and they wouldn't get tickets. They worked. So we sold police placards that had to be super illegal in 1988. All right, everybody. For your sultan of science, the exception, David Friedberg, your chairman dictator, Jamath Palihapitiya, the rain man, yeah, David Sachs, I am. You're our world's greatest moderator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
J. Cal, we'll see you on episode 176 and hopefully in September at the All In Summit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Yes, I was chomping on the bit quite literally, Sax, to talk about some stuff. Chomping on the bit to the point that I shattered a tooth. But I am back, and I have so much energy. I missed you guys. I actually missed y'all. Freeberg, so much good stuff happening with the summit. And I'm delighted that John is doing all this work. You are doing all this work. And I can just sit back and enjoy it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
So tell us, is there an update on the summit?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Okay, so alumni automatically get in? Alumni automatically are in. Okay, and then tell us about the scholarship because I'm getting bombarded and everybody who's an up and coming All In fan. We're going to announce it in a couple of weeks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
It's less than 10.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I saw a couple of speakers come in. There's two.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Oh, come on. Can we just tell the two speakers who said yes? Come on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The Saks landed a big speaker, and I think it's going to be awesome. In a week. In a week, we'll announce a bunch together. Listen, well, one thing I don't want to wait on is today's docket, because it is unbelievable. Welcome, everybody, to episode 175. That's right. It's episode 175 of your favorite podcast, and... The largest and most listened to podcast in the world, officially.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Episode 175 of the All In Podcast starts right now. And, ah, I've got so many feelings about this one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm manifesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I'm manifesting, Chamath. Just like Phil Hellmuth is the world's greatest poker player. And then we watch Robo roll over him. Is that a new word that narcissists use for lying? Manifesting? No, it's just like, you know, the world's greatest poker player. And then we see Phil Hellmuth get dominated by Jason Kuhn.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I mean, Kuhn and Roble and then the world's greatest Hellmuth playing is so great to watch. It's like a meta ego battle. It is. And those, you know, it's interesting. Two of those three guys are like the most humble guys you would ever meet in your life. Am I correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And if you were honestly going to rank the three of them in a high-stakes cash game, could you just handicap it for the audience? Because we're in the lucky position, you and I, to play with these three epic players in the world. Break down how they play in a home game like ours.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
I am so excited to be back at the game tonight. All right, listen, the docket is so great this week. We've got a great classic all-in docket. I want to start with Google firing 28 employees who were involved in this protest at their offices. We didn't think that this would happen. We were having a discussion on the group chat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
On Tuesday, about a dozen employees engaged in sit-ins at the company's offices in Sunnyvale and New York City, protesting. the conflict in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine. And so they took over, literally took over the offices of the CEO of Google Cloud, and nine employees were arrested after refusing to leave.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
The protest was organized by a group called No Tech for Apartheid, and they posted a bunch of clips of this sit-in on X. Those 28 employees were fired on Wednesday after a quick investigation. The VP of Global Security, was pretty direct and candid. I mean, this is based. They took over office spaces, defaced our property, and physically impeded the work of other Googlers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Behavior like this has no place in our workplace, and we will not tolerate it. If you're one of the few who are tempted to think we're going to overlook conduct that violates our policies, think again. So what were the protests about? Google is involved in a project, Nimbus, a $1.2 billion cloud contract with Israel's government.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
Both Google and Amazon are involved in the project, which was announced in 2021. Google has denied it was doing work for the military, saying it was working with departments like finance, healthcare, transportation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
There's a lot of details to this, but let's start with you, Freeberg, since you were a Googler, and we've been talking about the culture of Google, putting aside what the protests were about. How do you feel about protests in the workplace? We've talked about it before here with Coinbase and others.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Google fires protestors, NPR chaos, Humane's AI Pin, Startup tax crisis, sports betting scandal
And then is this a distinct change in tone that I'm hearing from Google that they've had enough of social activism at the office?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
All right, everybody, welcome to your favorite podcast in the world's number one podcast, the all-in podcast. It's episode 1,790. Oh, wait, that's just how it feels. Welcome to episode 179. With me today, of course, is your sultan of science. I don't know if that's a movie background or it's just his favorite vegetables. What's going on there? What's the crop?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It can also participate in Zoom calls, explain charts, all that great stuff. And so it's going to be your guide on the side. It's going to be a present personality while you're using your apps. It's really impressive, I have to say. So I guess let's start, Freeberg, with your takeaways on all of these innovations that we saw.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Chamath, any thoughts after seeing it and in combination with our interview, do you think ChatGPT is running away with the consumer experience? Or do you think this is like neck and neck with some of the other players?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Any insights as to why it might be plateauing in your perspective?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Okay, and here it is, ChatGPT web visits, as you can see, have plateaued. This data is similar web. I would agree with you, Jamath. It seems like the use cases and the looky-loos who were just trying the software, because they heard about it, They've gone away, and then we have to find actual use cases. Sacks, I'm wondering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yes, paid, paid version. Well, yeah, so to be clear, paid versus free. And then what Sam said on the podcast last week was, it seems like whenever they come out with something new, the old stuff becomes free. In my talk with Sonny this week, he mentioned that these new models are so much more efficient that you actually can throw the old model in the garbage. Garbage. Because it's so inefficient.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And these are now becoming about 90% cheaper every year, which means every two years, these things are gonna be 99% cheaper and better. Yep, yep. And it might be that OpenAI SACS on a strategic level is going to make all this free or close to free and maybe just charge for multiplayer version. That seems to be where it's heading. You don't have to log in to use 3.5. You don't have to log in
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
to use Google service? No, you do have to log in still on Google services, but I think these are going to just be free. So on a product basis, what are your thoughts? And then maybe you could talk about free to pay. Do you think everybody in the world is going to pay 20, 30, 40 bucks, 500 a year, 200 a year to have one of these? Or are they just going to all be free?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It's Omni, which means all the different media types currently coming in, right? That's the difference. It's not like you just give it an image or give it a video. It's absorbing all those at the same time in parallel, I believe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
This thing is moving so fast. They're in like Leonardo DiCaprio mode. Every two years, they throw the old model away. Okay. Let's keep... Thank you. Sacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Is this thing on? Did you write that ahead of time? I was in the moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, I mean, that is the thing of this pace. You used to have to throw away client-server stuff or... whatever, you had a web-based thing, you get an app out, you throw away some of the old code. But this is like every 18 months, your work has been replaced.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, you don't have to have too much FOMO because Phil sent the entire group chat to pokernews.com. They did an article on the group chat. Run it twice. Theflop.org.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I mean, listen, you were there when I think you were there at Facebook when they did the open compute project and they just were like, sorry, guys, talk about talk about torching an entire market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, and I just showed it on the screen. Sax, you've actually been dancing along this line. Last night, I was using your new Slack killer or co-exister. I'm not sure. It feels like a Slack killer to me because I'm moving my company to it on... Over the weekend, we're moving to Glue. Nice. And you and I were doing some very... I may need to wet my beak on this one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It feels like a hundred bagger to me. I'm in. It is a lot killer. That's the way we're thinking about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I need to wet my beak. It feels like a hundred X sliding 500. Wow. Sacks, tell me about product decisions. Where does the AI end? And your product begins.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Brian's my guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I want to hire Brian. If I got to get Sachs, I go Daniel and Brian. Boom, boom, boom. That's how I get Sachs on the line. Okay, you take Daniel.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Hold on a second. Sachs, I just looked at the chat GPT-4 Omni server, and when you did that query, it actually rolled its eyes. Keep going.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Say more.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
How woke is this? Have you put any rails on it, or is this just pure ChatGPT 4.0 combined with the data?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
The good news is it wasn't actually his birthday. It was Bill Gurley's, so he just hijacked Bill Gurley's birthday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So we were the- When you get into Slack too much, people start to think Slack is the job. And replying to Slacks and having conversations is the job when there's actually a job to be done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, and so it's important. And what I liked about this implementation facts was it's like the ability to make a feed or a data source inside of your communication platform. So the fact that you imported all of the episodes and the transcripts is great. But what I want is like our HubSpot or our CellCRM. I want our Zendesk. I want our LinkedIn jobs and our LinkedIn job applications.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I want our Notion. I want our Coda. to each have the ability. And when I was using it last night, what you do is you use the at symbol to evoke and to summon in a way. It's like summoning Beetlejuice. So you summon your AI, but then you tell it what data set you want to go after. So you say, you know, at AI, let's talk about, I don't know, How do you manage your deal flow at Kraft?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Do you use software like CRM software to manage deals? Brian, Daniel.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So we have a discussion about sales. And then you might have a sales bot that says, hey, by the way, nobody's called this client in three months.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
AI generated crop. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, I mean, it is kind of in the name. Like, this is glue. Put you together. And Slack is where you Slack up. Makes total sense. The brands give you a little bit of a tip. We should have seen it coming with Slack. Totally. We have a breaking news story. It's a breaking news story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I got breaking news coming in. Friedberg, your life's work. Sax did his product review. Now it's your turn, Friedberg. We got breaking news coming in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I go lengthwise. I go like this and I try to see.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Your fans are going to be crushed that you're not doing deep movie polls with us. Of course, man about town, DC, new products being launched. David Sachs, the rain man. Yeah. How you doing, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And so you'll see... Per hectare or something like that, like the Dwarf Week projects in the 60s and 70s. You know how you can tell Freeburg's onto something here? He got David Sachs to pay attention during it. Yeah. This is going to be a decacord and Saks is awake.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I'm going to answer you one second. I'm just going to switch my headset. It just died. Wow. We went from Saks' bots to Freeburg's crops.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. Wow. He just solved the whole Ukraine crisis here. We're going to be able to grow wheat in the desert and in the rainforest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You mentioned something briefly there about where different crops can be planted. We had these big talks about wheat and corn. They're only available in very specific parts, north of the equator, the Campion jungles, Campion, obviously polar or desert extremes. So if you're successful, what would this do for on a global basis, where these crops are made?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Because there's a whole discussion about you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Totally wheat belly of Europe, the cradle of wheat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Now you want the European small ones or the Japanese ones from Hokkaido because they're rich and sweet and they're not these like monstrosity of giant flavorless strawberries. What's that about? Could you do a seedless mango?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So you can just cut it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
The amount of work per bite on a mango is like the worst ratio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
This is going to be incredible, Sax. If you think about geopolitically, what's going on in Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, those places have tens of millions of people, I think hundreds of millions collectively, who are at risk for starvation. If you could actually make crops that could be farmed there, Friedberg, you would change humanity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And then all these people buying up farmland in America... That could devalue that farmland if that wasn't as limited of a resource. Yeah, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Chamath and J. Cal have secured the bank.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
All progress counts. All right. Stanley Druckenmiller has got a new boyfriend. Druckenmiller's got a boyfriend. And his name is Javier. And they've eloped to Argentina. Druckenmiller professed his love. Tom Cruise on Oprah's couch in a CNBC interview this week, the only free market, quote, leader in the world right now, bizarrely, is in Argentina of all places. He cut Social Security 35%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
If he came to office, they've gone from a primary deficit of like 4% or 5% to a 3% surplus. They've taken a massive hit in GDP, basically a depression for a quarter, and his approval rating has not gone down. Druckenmiller has explained how he invested in Argentina after seeing Millet's speech at Davos, which we covered. Here's a 30 second clip. Play the clip, Nick.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, that's quite interesting. Quick note, you hear Druckenmiller mention ADRs. For those of you who don't know, and I was one of them, they stand for American Depository Receipts, basically a global stock offered on a U.S. exchange to simplify things for investors and Yeah, I mean, he didn't sign a prenup here. He just went all in and he bought the stock, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And then he's going to figure it out later. Tell us your thoughts on this love affair, this bromance.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Sacks, the influence of Millais on American politics, will there be any? It seems like he has paralleled what Elon did at Twitter, Facebook, and Zuck did at Facebook. Do you think that this, you know, experiment he's doing down there of just cutting staff, cutting departments will ever make its way into American politics?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, 6%, 7%, depending on how much net worth and your credit rating.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I came back and I won.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
She triples up and then into lockdown mode. The first time I ever played with her, I showed up to this game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Victory lap. Here we go. A little David Sachs victory lap. We need a little graphic for that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, it's like showing up to a party that's going crazy and putting gasoline on the fire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I show up at a mutual friend of ours game, and there's a beautiful Porsche or something in the driveway. It's a really notable car. And I notice on the license plate, it says D-Gen. but it's spelled with a J. And I'm like, oh, degenerate. What a great license plate. I wonder whose that is. I go, it's Jennifer Tilling. She is so cool.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Of course not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It's like driving with your foot on the brake and the gas at the same time. It's not a great idea for the car.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Let's be honest, Freeberg, nobody can make that stupid of a trade to say Macy's versus Amazon over the next 10 years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And to build on your thoughts, having watched this movie a couple of times, and I overthought the Twitter investment as but one example. I had the opportunity to invest in Twitter when it was like a single-digit millions company. And I just thought, you know what? This thing is only like the headline. And I told Ev, it's the headline. It's not like the entire blog post.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It's going to be a cacophony of idiots. This thing is going to be chaos. And I was right, but I was wrong, right? Great bet. but my wrong analysis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And so you can add precision to other aspects, like when you sell your shares or when you double down, but you have to get the trend right, which is Evan Williams, great entrepreneur, Jack, great entrepreneur, Twitter taking off like a weed, just make the bet, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
But you knew Zuck and you saw some growth charts and you saw some precision in his ability to build product. And that's the way to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You don't have to ask me twice. Yeah, exactly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. Yeah, definitely a good week. Chamath Palihapitiya, chairman, dictator. He puts the chairman in dictator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What a great gangster film. Yeah. With Gina Gershwin. Gina Gershon. That film.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. So I've gotten very lucky now because a lot of my founders from the first couple of cohorts of investing I did when I was a Sequoia scout have come back and created second and third companies. And so, you know, that happened with TK Uber and the cloud kitchens that happened with Raul from report of then superhuman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And then it happened recently, just in the past year, my friend, Jonathan, who's the co-founder of thumbtack, He asked me to come to dinner and he said, hey, you know, you were the first investor in Thumbtack. Will you be the first investor in our next company, Athena? And I said, sure. What do you do? And he explained it to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And we put a seven-figure bet in, which is rare for us as a seed fund, right? Normally, our bet sizes are 100K to 50. You know, it's a $50 million fund. Why did you do it? Yeah, it's very simple. It's the fastest growing company I've ever seen. And I'm including Uber in that. It has been growing at, you know,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
That film. Oh, my God. Well, let's not get canceled here. It is quite a film. All right. Speaking of action. Big week. The AI industrial complex is dominating. Our docket here, apologies to Biden, Ukraine, and Nikki Haley, but we got to go AI right now. Open AI, launch chat, GPT 4.0. Monday, three days after Samwise came on all in as a programming note, and we'll go to Freiburg about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
a rate that I'll just say is faster than Uber and Robinhood when we were investing in them, tens of millions of dollars. It's a very simple concept. When Thumbtack was building their marketplace, they used... researchers in places like Manila, et cetera, in the Philippines, knowledge workers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And what they realized was the 0.1% of those knowledge workers were as good or better than say Americans at doing certain jobs. And so they've created this virtual EA service. You can go see it at athenowow.com. And we now have two of them inside of our company. It turns out Americans don't want to do the operations role. So it's kind of like AWS. You just give them $36,000 a year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They give you essentially an operations or an EA. And they have ones that are kind of cheap of staff-ish. And this company is growing like a weed. So I am working with them on the product design as well. So imagine having two or three of these incredibly hardworking people who are trained with MBA class level curriculum.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They spend months training these people up, they pay them two or three times what they would make at any other company. And then they pair them with executives here. And it's kind of been an underground secret in Silicon Valley, because it's only by invitation right now, because they can only train so many people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
But if you've tried to hire an executive assistant, I don't know if anybody's tried to do that recently. You hooked me up, so I will be guinea picking this service. Yes. And I have two of them. And so it is just the greatest that you can have an operations person on board. Are these people powered by AI tools as well? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So that's the kind of secret sauce here is they're training them and they watch you work and then they will learn how you do your job and then how quickly you can delegate and get stuff off your plate is the name of the game. So we have an investment team with researchers and analysts in it. We have a due diligence team. And then you have like executive functions in our fund.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
they have now started shadowing you know you know highly paid americans in an investment firm ours and then train them up and now our due diligence our first level screening you know and our tracking of companies is being done by these assistants for what i'll say is a third to a fourth of the price i was paying previously so what that does in an organization is
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We're just delegating away and then moving our investment team to doing in-person meetings and doing higher level stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So you're 80-90ing the investment team. I'm 80-90ing the investment team. And you know what? It was scary as hell for them because they're like, am I going to lose my job? It's like, no. You now get to, instead of doing a check and call once a month, you can do a check and call every other week or every week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Or instead of doing 15 first round interviews a week, you can do 25 because you have this assistant with you doing all the repetitive work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Oh, it'd be 10 hours of work.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We probably made a bit of a strategical or tactical error in not postponing his appearance. In fairness, Freeberg, Samwise did tell us. Originally, he was coming on to talk about those things, but then it got pushed back. Anything you want to add to that as a programming note? Because people are wondering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So it's a massive deflationary tailwind here. We had the same thing happen with compute, and now it's happening inside of organizations. I wrote a blog post about this on my sub stack called ADD. This is the framework I came up with. I told my entire team, look at what you got done every week. And I want you to ask three questions. How can I automate this? How can I deprecate this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
How can I delegate it? And the automate part is AI and what you're doing, David. The delegate part is athenowow.com. And then the deprecate is, hey, just be thoughtful. What are you doing that you don't need to do? And that's 80-90ing something. There are things inside these products that you don't actually need. What's the core functionality of the product?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You know, make it as affordable as possible. And then what's going to happen for people who think this is bad for society? You've got it completely wrong. We're going to have more people be able to create more products and solve more problems. The unemployment rate's going to stay very low. We're just going to have more companies.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So the idea, like, there was somebody who was working on very small, like, software. I want to get pitched on very niche ideas. I want to create something where people can find people to play pickleball with, right? Like a pickleball marketplace. Now, that wouldn't typically work because you would need $5 million a year to build that product. But if you can build it for $500,000 a year,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Well, now you've only got to clear that number to be profitable. So a lot more smaller businesses, a lot more independence, all these little niche ideas will be able to be built. And a VC who says, I'm not giving you $5 million to build that app will be like, but I will give you 500k.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And that's what I'm seeing on the ground in startups, the same startups that had a request of $3 million in funding five years ago are now requesting 500 to a million. It's deflationary all the way down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
ChatGPT Omni launched at the same time or perhaps strategically right before Google dropped its latest AI announcements at IO. The biggest announcement is that they are going to change search. This is the piece of the puzzle in the kingdom that they have been very concerned with and they're going for it. The new product, and they have like 20 different
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
products, you can see them at labs.google where they put all their different products. But this is the most important one. They call it AI overviews. Basically, it's perplexity for most users by the end of the year, they're going to have this. Here's how it works. And you can see it on your screen. If you're watching us go to YouTube. Here, they gave an example. How do you clean a fabric sofa?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
This normally would have given you 10 blue links. Here, it gives you step-by-step guide with citations and links. So they're preempting the issue of people getting upset. And as I predicted, they're going to have targeted ads. Here's the things you need in order to clean your couch. You can only use this if you're using your Gmail account.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
If you use a domain name on Google Docs, it won't work there. So go to labs.google.com. But they're doing citations. And I think that we're going to see a major lawsuit here. Those people who are in those boxes are going to look at the answer here and realize maybe they don't get the click through and that this answer was built on that. And now we're going to have to have a new framework.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
There's going to need to be, Sachs, a new company. that clears this content so that Google can do answers like this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And I think that Chamath, in a rare moment of reflection, might do a, are we going to have a re-underwriting? Is this a re-underwriting?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I just, I mean, you know, because I'm- Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news, Chamath is re-underwriting his Google train.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So you're saying there might be many- Think about it this way, right? Multi-billion dollar opportunities sitting there dormant inside of Google that AI unlocks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Absolutely. And the report of their death, Freeberg, was based upon people don't need to click on the ads. But as I said on this very podcast, my belief is that this is going to result in more searches and more knowledge engagement. Because once you... how to cook your steak and get the right temperature, right, for medium rare, it's going to anticipate your next three questions better.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So now to say, hey, what wine pairing would you want with that steak? Hey, do you need steak knives? And it's just going to read your mind that you need steak knives and Chamath likes to buy steak knives, but maybe you like to buy mock meats, whatever it is. it's going to drive more research and more clicks. So while the monetization per search may go down, we might see many, many more searches.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What do you think, Freeberg? You work there. And when we look at the future of the company and the stock price, Nick will pull it up, Man, if you had held your stock, I don't know, did you hold any?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Would it have been a billion?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Explain, give me an example.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
So other bets could actually pay off.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Life extension, yeah. Let me get Sachs involved in this discussion. Sachs, when we show that example, it's obvious... Google is telling you where they got these citations from and how they built their how to clean your couch, how to make your steak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They were in a very delicate balance with content creators over the past two decades, which is, hey, we're going to use a little bit of your content, but we're going to send you traffic. This is going to take away the need to send traffic to these places. They're going to benefit from it. To me, this is the mother of all class action lawsuits because they're putting it right up there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Hey, we're using your content to make this answer. Here's the citations. We didn't get your permission to do this, but we're doing it anyway. What do you think is the resolution here? Does all these content go away because there's no model? Does Google try to make peace with the content creators and cut them in or license their data?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What's going to happen to content creation when somebody like Google is just going to take Wirecutter or these other sources that are not behind a paywall and just give you the goddamn answer?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I had a call with him yesterday and you and I will be on that cap table together once again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And by the way, this was all something that I saw 15 years ago when I did Mahalo, which was my human-powered search engine. And which I had copied or been inspired by Naver and Daum in Korea. They were the first ones to do this. You know it, Shamath, because there were only three or four markets where Google couldn't displace the number one. Korea, Russia, Japan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Russia had, what was the Russian search engine? God, I can't remember now. Japan had Yahoo Japan, which Masayoshi San had carved out. It was never part of it, and they were loyal to that. And very nationalistic Koreans and very innovative folks at Daum and Naver just made search that was so amazing. You do a search and you'd be like, here's music, here's images, here's answers, here's Q&A.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It was awesome. But, you know, it just shows you like you need to have a lot of wherewithal and timing is everything as an entrepreneur. My timing was 10 years too early and the wrong technology. I used humans, not AI because AI didn't work 15 years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
It reminds me, you know, the greatest product creation company in history. I think we all know who that was. And take a look down memory lane. Here are the 20 biggest felt Apple products of all time. The Apple Lisa, Macintosh Portable. We all remember the Newton, which was their PDA. The 20th anniversary Macintosh Super Sexy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Big swings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. And if it doesn't work out, you reboot and start with a new cap table. You're going to go all in. So to speak, another amazing episode is in the can. The boys are in a good mood. You got your great episode. No guests this week. Just all bestie all the time. And very important, the march to a million continues halfway there. You got us there, fans.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We hit 500,000 subbies on YouTube, which means you all earned a live Q&A with your besties. Come Coming at you in the next couple of weeks. We're going to do it live on YouTube. So if you're not one of the first 500, get in there now so you get the alert. We're going to take your questions live. It's going to be dangerous. Any questions. No questions are offered.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Who knows what could happen on a live show. And by the way, I just want to let you know that Phil Hellmuth, breaking news. Phil Hellmuth and Draymond Green just resigned from OpenAI. We didn't get into that, but the OpenAI resignations continue. Phil Hellmuth has tweeted he's no longer with OpenAI. You guys like my baby cashmere pink sweater? It's pretty great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Are we going to get summer Chamath soon? Are the buttons coming down? Are you going to go linen? When does linen Chamath show up? The unbuttoning is about to happen in the next two or three weeks. The great unbuttoning. This is how you know. It's kind of like Groundhog Day. You know that summer's here when you lose Chamath's buttons. Almost here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
The other little trick is to say you can tell us under embargo. But my understanding is they were still doing the videos over the weekend. So I think those videos and stuff, they were still figuring them out. And so yeah, lesson learned. In terms of the interviews on the show, just to recap for people, we've done a dozen. Half of them have been presidential candidates.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah. We're going to go three buttons down. I'll still be wearing my black tee. Sacks will still be blue blazer, blue shirt, red tie. And Freeburg in fields of gold. Look at Freeburg in fields of gold. Taking us out. Staying in fields of gold. Coming at you. Two for Tuesday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
See you all in the next All In Pod for the Sultan of Science. The Rain Man, David Sachs, and Chairman Dictator, I am your Z100 Morning Zoo DJ. We'll see you next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And now the plugs, the all-in summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th. You can apply for a ticket at summit.allinpodcast.co. Scholarships will be coming soon. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all-in or just search all-in podcast and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And we're going to do a party today. In Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers, so look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for theallinpodcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. And you can follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs. Sachs recently spoke at the American Moment Conference and people are going crazy for it. It's pinned to his tweet on his X Profile. I'm Jason Calacanis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups. Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc., allinpodcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena. Go to athenawow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy, J-Cal, athenawow.com.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Sometimes they break out, sometimes they don't. But we follow our interest and our passion here on the pod, it's got to be interesting for us too. So if we think this person's going to be interesting, we do it. And yeah, we understand you miss a news subject, but yeah, it is what it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah, great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
What was the spiciest question, Sax? What was the fastball? Anything come close to your head? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
That's an important part here. I think, you know, as a former editor-in-chief journalist myself, I sometimes like to ask, I would say, a challenging question in a respectful way. I did that, for example, with Vake, you know, just clarifying his thoughts on trans and gay rights. wasn't disrespectful, was thoughtful, Would you consider it spicy or hardcore? I don't think it was hardcore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
He likes to talk about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
No. You see the difference? I'm actually interested in his opinion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
I always have the same conditions when I do interviews, which is I don't clear questions and I don't let people edit it. But, you know. Everybody's got a different view on how to do interviews and feel a difference. If you like it, you like it. If you like Lex Friedman's version or Tim Ferriss's version, or you prefer, you know, Fox or CNN, go watch those interviews there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
You can have a whole range of different interviews and interview styles available to you in the media landscape. We are but one. Sam Weiss mentioned on the pod last week that the next big model might not be called GPT-5. So on Monday, they launched GPT-4.0. The O stands for Omni. It's everything you love about tech. It's faster, it's cheaper, it's better.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
But from my perspective, the real show was the massive amount of progress they made on the UI UX. The O stands for Omni, as in Omnivore. It takes in audio, text, images, even your desktop and video from your camera to inform what it's doing. We can consider it like 360 degree AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Producer Nick will show a couple of videos while I describe them here before we go to the besties for the reaction to the announcement.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
first, they made great progress in solving the CB problem we mentioned last week, that's where like when you use Siri or any of these tools, you say, you know, hey, jet GPT, what's two plus two over and you have to wait and then if you talk over each other, it breaks. They now have that working much smoother. They did an example of counting where they said speed up, slow down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
They did a translator that worked really well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Looks like it works. I think Duolingo stock took a hit during that. Most impressive, to me at least, and also I had Sandeep Madra on my other podcast and we talked about it, was their desktop and iOS app. What this app does is fascinating. It watches your desktop on your Macintosh or on your iPad or iPhone, and it does everything. things like adaptive learning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Here's a clip of Sal Khan from Khan Academy and his son basically using a drawing app to do some arithmetic or geometry. And it does adaptive learning and basically makes a personal coach because the app is watching his son try to solve a problem.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
It's probably $30 billion of revenue a year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
CEO of Chipotle. No, Chipotle. Chipotle. Chipotle?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
I love onion rings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Break up Google, Starbucks CEO out, Kamala’s price controls, Boeing disaster, Kursk offensive
Oh, it's Purveyor. Sure, of course. Yeah, let's pull up the Starbucks CEO. I'm very disciplined about balance.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He's ready to go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
What's up with your outfit, J. Cal? You going on Fox News again? Dude, he just signed on to become a contributor. Wait, what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, a lot of the boom is driven by these AI stocks, notably NVIDIA. I mean, if you take out the AI stocks, I'm not sure the market is up, or maybe it's up a little bit. I mean, a huge part of the gain is from these, I don't know, top five, top seven tech stocks. Is it a bubble? I think that's going a little too far. I mean, I personally think the AI wave is real.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think the question is whether the level of investment that we're seeing going into cloud service infrastructure is sustainable. There's a huge build-out happening right now, many, many billions of dollars building out these new technologies. cloud service centers or cloud infrastructure, data centers based on GPUs instead of CPUs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And I think it's a good question about whether that's sustainable. I do think that one of the things that's going on is that the chips are really expensive. I mean, these GPUs from NVIDIA, what, they're like $30,000 per GPU? For an H100, yeah. Right, and part of the reason for that is the scarcity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They haven't been able to produce as much as there's demand for, and so they're commanding a premium right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, it's got like thousands of components and it's a very complicated product to make. In any event, they're very expensive. And so it's very expensive to build out this new infrastructure. I do think that over time, the price of these chips just has to come down. It just doesn't make sense that they'd be so expensive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Just as production increases and they don't have this rate limit on the supply, then I think the price should come down and the cost of this infrastructure should normalize a bit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I knew it. I knew it. That's the level of... Did you open the wine bottle in the gym or did you just like tap the glass?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think that's what's likely to happen. I'm much more bullish than you guys about this investment that's being made. Remember that when the internet got started in the 90s, it was via dial-up. I mean, you literally had to have a modem and you would dial up the internet and it was incredibly slow. Photo sharing didn't even work, so social networking wasn't possible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Is that official merch? I got it online, so I hope she's getting royalty. I hope it's not a fugazi.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He's a contributor. You're a contributor to Fox News. They're paying me. That's hysterical.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And basically what happened next was that the telecom companies spent a ton of money building out broadband. And people started upgrading to broadband. Then we had the dot-com crash. Everyone thought that telecom companies had wasted billions of dollars investing in all this broadband infrastructure. And it turned out that no, they were right to do that. It just took a while for that to get used.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And this is a pretty common pattern with technological revolutions is that You can have a bubble in the short term, but then it gets justified in the mid to long term. The build out of the railroads in the United States, another example of this, we had huge railroad bubbles, but it turned out that that investment was all worthwhile. So I tend to think that's what's going to happen with AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I mean, I do think that there's already enough, let's call it realness to the applications. I mean, I'll give you three examples. Number one, open AI. I mean, open AI is effectively semantic search, right? It's a different kind of search engine where it understands the question you're asking and gives you an answer instead of blue links. And they're already at What is it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
We talked about this previously. $3.4 billion in revenue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, they're just starting already. I mean, this company has only been around for two years with a product on the market and it's doubling now. year over year. So that's just example number one, right? I mean, what's the most valuable application on the internet until now? It's been Google, right? And so search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And so you have a different kind of search now that I'm not saying it's a one for one replacement. It's also a new market. But my point is just you already have a very powerful application in the form of this semantic search, which OpenAI is currently dominating. The second one, I think, will be when Apple comes out with iPhone 16.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
you know, with LLM-powered Siri, assuming they do a decent job with that, it's going to lead to a huge upgrade cycle. I mean, I'm still on an iPhone 13 because I haven't seen a reason to upgrade. I will definitely upgrade to the iPhone 16.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Snap upgrade for that, assuming that they roll their own LLM and use that to power Siri and don't give my data to a third-party LLM. And there's... been mixed reports about that. You don't trust Sam Altman with your iPhone backup? I don't want Apple sharing any of my data, which they obtained by being the operating system with a third party LLM.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
But a bunch of viewers of the show posted in the comments that I had made a mistake on this and that Apple was rolling its own LLM to power Siri and they would only go to OpenAI if Apple Their own LLM can't do it for some reason. I'm just going to turn that feature off. But in any event, so assuming Apple gets that right, everyone's going to upgrade their iPhones.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
The third app is, look, we're using LLMs to power Glue. And the results aren't always consistently awesome. I would say the results are kind of like a B plus right now. But you do get some really great results.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's a strong start.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And, you know, in a year or so, we're going to be at the next gen version of all the models. You're going to be at, I'm sure, you know, ChatGPT 5 will be out and then the next version of Claude and so forth. At that point, it's going to be an A+.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, I wasn't supposed to talk about that, but I saw that someone leaked it to the New York Times this morning, so it's out there. Okay. And yeah, I'm going to be speaking there next week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think the low-hanging fruit application-wise in the enterprise is chat with a knowledge base, chat with your knowledge bases. That's what people want, right? And we're still in the early stages of being able to connect your enterprise data to an LLM in a safe, compliant way. That's where a lot of activity is happening right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You can give us a little idea of maybe a theme or two that you want to... There is a theme, but I don't want to talk about it yet. I'm not supposed to talk about it. I'm not even supposed to say I'm doing it, but it got out there, so I guess there's no hiding it anymore.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, look, where I think Chamath has a point is that these big tech companies are not building out all of this infrastructure because they've modeled out the ROI and it's extremely positive. They're doing it because it's an arms race. It's so strategic right now to have these AI capabilities and to power the expected next generation of AI apps.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They can't afford to let one of their competitors have that. They have to compete. So they're all in an arms race with each other, bidding up the cost of these GPUs because they have to have that supply.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, I mean, I think they're going to use them, but yeah, I mean, the point is that it's a zero-sum game. And if I let you have this GPU, I have one less GPU to use.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Wait, what? For real. Yeah, he's the newest contributor. Oh, my God. That's incredible. Do they know you have TDS?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, hold on. The 20 times math only makes sense if it's $100 million a year in perpetuity, right? If it's a one-time spend on the $100 million, then it's just $100 million.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I don't think it's that weird a strategy. Because, I mean, look, it's definitely different.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
What I'm saying is that they're buying these chips and then they're effectively timesharing them out to portfolio companies. And so they're going to charge for their use. They're going to amortize this cost.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It depends on the rate of depreciation. If you buy these chips at a premium because they're scarce right now, and then all of a sudden they rapidly depreciate in value, then you might lose money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
On the other hand, if the current value of the investment remains stable because they don't depreciate that rapidly, and then you can charge the cost back to the startups who are using the chips, then you break even.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And it's basically a business development expense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, I don't think this is a bad idea at all. I mean, I think it's kind of interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I mean, look, it appeals to a certain category of startup who needs the GPUs. I mean, just to be clear, like there's lots of AI applications that don't need direct access to GPUs because, you know, for example, we're using the cloud models and we're using the open AI models.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, we don't deal with GPU. I mean, you have to be in the model business effectively to need direct access to the GPUs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah. Look, I don't think that the youth's demand for socialism is what's driving the results in France at all. Let me explain what happened. So the way that the voting works in France, it's an unusual system to our eyes where they have a first round of voting. And in that first round of voting, Marine Le Pen's party national rally won a strong plurality of the vote.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And the map looked like this, where literally they won every district in the country except for Paris. I mean, it was a really dominant performance. And so people were expecting major reform. And J. Cal, you're right that Marine Le Pen's major issue, her party, is the unlimited immigration that's taken place into France. The French people or a substantial portion of them are up in arms about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And actually, this is something that's very common across all of Europe.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They care about their culture. The indigenous people of France are opposed to the settler colonial invasion that's happening from the global south. And they want to preserve their French culture and society and nation as it has always been. And they do not see how this unlimited immigration from the global south is good for them. It's not good for them economically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's not good for societal cohesiveness. It's not good for crime and so on. So this is undoubtedly a huge driver of national rally success. But then what happened is that in the French system, there's a second round of voting a week later. And we got these results, where national rallies still got the plurality of the vote. They got 37% of the vote, but they only won 142 seats.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Whereas Macron's party got 22% of the vote, won 148. And then a collection of parties called the New Popular Front, which is basically a collection of far-left parties under the radical socialist Jean-Luc Mélenchon, won only 27% of the vote, but won the most seats. And this is what I think Freeberg's reacting to, is that the socialists, Ended up with the most seats.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, how did this happen if National Rally, Marine Le Pen's party got a lot more votes than New Popular Front? The answer is that Macron, president of France, conspired.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
with the far left to have 200 candidates quit to basically drive those voters, the voters in, let's call it the center left, over to the far left in order to block Marine Le Pen's party from winning the number of seats that they otherwise would have.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
rfk giving dropping out at the last minute and saying i endorse this person on left or right so they did a very strategic thing to right but they went district by district and they basically said okay strategy yeah hold on in this district we're gonna let the we're gonna have uh macron's candidate drop out and endorse new popular front exactly so that's what they did so brilliant
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, it's a manipulated result. And what it ends up with, look, a lot of people said, so actually you're saying that they rigged the election. Look, they didn't rig the votes, okay? I have no reason to believe that the votes aren't real. But they did rig the candidates in order to frustrate the desire of the French people for reform, the reform that Marine Le Pen was offering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And Freeberg, you're interpreting this as basically a big endorsement for socialism. I don't think that's what this is. I think that what happened here is that the center left under Macron was willing to throw the election through legal. I'm not saying they did anything illegal through legal manipulation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yeah, exactly. And so it's to me, it's just it's sad that, you know, one person tweeted that We voted for reform. We voted for national sovereignty. We voted to restrict unlimited immigration. And what we got was communism. This isn't what we voted for.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And so it's just kind of sad that what's happening is that the system, the system politicians are essentially getting together to frustrate the popular will of the people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
200 candidates basically were strategically dropped out in order to throw the vote in those districts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
We're right about that part. So basically on the heels of this vote with New Popular Front winning all of these seats, Jean-Luc Mélenchon gives this speech in which he, you know, rails basically against Macron's neoliberal policies. He wants to go back to the restricted number of hours in the work week. He wants a 90% wealth tax and so on across the board. He does want radical socialism.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And he says that he will not cooperate with Macron's party. So, I mean, this is like just, it's almost... cartoonish and clownish, how much this has backfired on Macron. He was so hell-bent on trying to frustrate Marine Le Pen that he threw the election to New Popular Front, who has now announced that they will not work with him, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Now, J. Cal, you may want to say, well, this is the will of the majority, but the majority of the country did not want to vote for chaos. But chaos is what they've got, because now there is no dominant faction in their parliament, right? And New Popular Front-
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Sorry. The good news, Freeberg, is that Melon Sean will not have a majority in the assembly to push through those radical policies that he wants. No faction will have a majority because they're not going to work with each other. You've got three big parties here or three big groups, and you need two of them working together to get anything done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So what's going to happen is you're just going to have basically a log jam. And like Marine Le Pen said, reform in France is just going to have to wait and we're going to lose another year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think what's happening is that there is a pent-up demand for reform. People are craving reform. I understand that system does not work. It feels rigged for everyone. It feels rigged. It feels corrupt. And it's resistant to reform. And so they are basically clamoring for that. And they will get it wherever they can take it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, I don't think it's because socialism is that desirable. I actually think that the desire for reform, I think it is first and foremost looking for what I would call a nationalist populist solution. And you can see here that National Rally did do better than New Popular Front, considerably better, But it was the system's desire to hand a victory to New Popular Front that gave them the win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And I think you see a similar thing in the United States. Look, if Joe Biden had just shut down the border for the last four years, he would be in a materially different position. Absolutely. But the radicals in his party didn't want to do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in a way, you could say that you have a similar type of conspiracy taking place where the center left would rather enable and support the radical progressives as opposed to making sensible decisions. moderations or sensible adjustments, that would actually make them much more popular.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think there's a common denominator here that both Macron and Biden would rather throw the government of the country to radicals and communists than implement sensible restrictions on immigration. It's mind-blowing to me that neither Macron nor Biden can simply make a sensible adjustment on immigration. People do not want open borders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They especially don't want them in Europe, and they don't want them here either.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
My gosh. Yeah, that's pretty rough. And Axios reported that Chuck Schumer... Jason, let me ask you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
That's right. All right. Hawk two, that whistle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And let's get it out there because also coming out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Oh, I think we already know what's going on, J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in that press conference, it's nice to see the press actually doing their job because their job is to... Hold truth to account and to actually ask tough questions. And they're finally doing it. But I see in that press conference, not just a liar at the podium.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think the entire audience are a bunch of liars, too, because they knew they knew the truth about the situation and they refused to report it and they refused to investigate it until now. Now, what you've heard in the past week or so is a bunch of people who knew about the situation telling on themselves.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So first you had George Clooney, and that New York Times op-ed, he says that after the fundraiser we did, yeah, I knew, and everyone there knew. That was a month ago. What took you so long to come out? Olivia Newsy says she had the story for New York Magazine six months ago, okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
She had anonymous sources, but she said she was afraid to publish it because the White House would basically push back, and she didn't think the press corps would back her. Chuck Todd just said it on a podcast that a cabinet official said,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
OK, in the Biden White House, told him two years ago that he could not get a meeting with the president because the president was effectively incapacitated and his inner circle was keeping him shielded. Chuck Todd knew. Why didn't Chuck Todd report that? Why didn't Chuck Todd pass it on to an investigative reporter at NBC to investigate that? These dereliction of duty is the answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's a dereliction of duty. Of course. But let me tell you what they were trying to do, OK? They were trying to weekend of Bernie's this thing. Absolutely. They thought they could get Biden through the election. And so they were on narrative and they weren't going to report the truth about his condition. They were just going to try and get him across the finish line.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They're all complicit in this cover up and they don't deserve any credibility because now they're finally reporting it because the only reason they're reporting it is because of concerns about Biden's electability. They're afraid that he's going to lose. And the turning point was that debate because the whole country could see it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in the wake of that, they're starting to panic and they're realizing, oh, wait, we need a new candidate. So finally, they're telling the truth about the situation. But they had absolutely no intention of telling the truth about it because they could have done it a long time ago. And they were just going to try and drag Biden across the finish line.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He was clear on this podcast, and kudos to Dean Phillips for having the courage to tell the truth. He was one of the only people in the Democratic Party to tell the truth. Remember, he also said in our podcast that he called up J.B. Pritzker. He called up Gretchen Whitmer. He said, where are you guys? You're the leaders of the Democratic Party. Why aren't you challenging President Biden?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
He obviously isn't fit to serve. They told him, shut up. They wouldn't take his phone calls, okay? And look, Dean Phillips knew the truth without having special access to the president. Quite frankly, he's a backbencher, right? But it was obvious to him. They all knew. The whole party knew.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
But their strategy was to pretend and deny and to pretend to excommunicate anyone like Dean Phillips who told the truth and to try and discredit anyone who reported the truth as basically a partisan or a liar who was trafficking in the fake. Remember that? So all these people are complicit. They're all complicit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Oh, my God. Honestly, I will say that I saw both of your appearances on Jesse Waters, and I thought you crushed both of them. Totally. You were excellent. I think it's actually a good move for them. I like the idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And the only reason they're telling the truth now is because they're afraid of losing an election.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Where did you get it from, J. Cal?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
OK, I personally don't think it's going to happen, but I still think you deserve credit for being the first. So you came up with this and now it's a spread or what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Okay, look, I think you deserve credit for being the first to talk about this. And that idea is clearly gaining some currency on the left. However, at the end of the day, I don't think the Democrats can afford to do that because they're already in a state of chaos right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And if they finally succeed in pushing Biden overboard, the last thing they're going to want to do is have the chaos of an open primary, even if it is a speedrun primary. I think they're just going to have to go to Kamala Harris and I think that's what they've decided.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I think that if they succeed in pushing Biden out, which does seem probably more likely than not at this point, I think it's got to be Harris. And I think she's going to be the nominee. So I just don't think Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, no, look, I think that Trump should win regardless, but it's an opportunity for them to reset the race. And that's what's driving all of this is that they're concerned about losing. But look, let me say this, that everything that's happened here with Biden's cognitive state It's just one in a series of hoaxes and cover-ups that the Democrat Party has transpired over the last several years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
It's gotten to the point where you have to wonder, can these guys even run a presidential campaign without hoaxes? You had the Steele dossier, okay? You have the whole suckers and losers hoax. You have the very fine people hoax. You have the this is the best version of Biden hoax. You had the whole cheap fake hoax. And you've just got to wonder, okay,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Is this a party who deserves the trust of the American people? I think that Trump deserves another term just as a rebuke to all the misinformation and lies that the Democratic Party has told about him. And I think that he should win.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
That's like 20% of the hoax list. There's like 10 more. Okay. No, he's been keeping a list. Yeah. Trump deserves to win just based on all the hoaxes that have been thrown at him. All right. And you know what? You got to give him credit because it was his decision to go on CNN in that debate that really called their bluff on this whole thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You don't think it was a setup? No, I think, look, there are a lot of people who do think that it was a controlled demolition and they want Biden out. I don't think so. Wow, that's a conspiracy theory. It is a conspiracy theory and I understand why people might think that because so many conspiracy theories have turned out to be true. However, I don't believe that's what happened.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I believe that Biden's staff created conditions for the debate that they thought would be untenable to Trump, right? They said that we're going to choose the host. They're going to be hosts who've basically already called Trump Hitler, right? So it's like the most favorable setting. They said, there's not going to be an audience. We're going to turn off your microphone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And they thought that Trump would just say no to all of this and they'd be able to get Biden through without debate. But Trump called their bluff. He said, okay, I'll do it. Sure. And he walked into the lion's den. Just like, remember a year ago, he walked into the lion's den at CNN, right? Yeah, he's fearless. To do that town hall. Remember, he is fearless.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You got to admit that Trump has the huevos. Like Tony Montana said, the only thing in this world that gives orders is balls. Absolutely. You got to admit. To a... You got to hop to those. Don't forget the balls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Love you boys. Bye-bye. Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Sacks. You would love for me to be a contributor on Fox.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I would.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You would. I'm pulling your leg. I'm pulling your leg. I'm pulling your leg. They haven't made the effort. They haven't made the effort.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I want your training to continue, young Padawan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Oh, really? This is like I will bring ballots to the force?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I'm as nonpartisan as you are, J. Cal. Don't pretend like you're not the candidate in this race.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I am a moderate independent, as we all know, from my Fox News hits.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yes, exactly. Fox News has hired you to provide the opposite point of view. In any event, sorry, what's your question?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Yes, yes. You're the chosen one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Well, the Fed's mistake was just waiting way too long to react to the inflation. And they didn't just wait nine months after the first inflation print came in that was too high before they started raising rates. They continued QE for six more months. So when you talk about all this stimulus that's still in the economy that they can't seem to get rid of,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
You are my brother, Anakin. You were supposed to bring ballots to the force, Anakin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
A lot of that was created by the Fed's QE in the second half of 2021. That should never have happened. Since then, they did what they had to do, which is they increased rates to solve inflation. That's what you do. And yes, it does seem to be working, but we still have inflation being persistently high at 3%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
And so now, like Freeberg's saying, they're trying to change the goalposts to somehow normalize 3%. We should just understand that what that means is permanently higher interest rates because the Fed has to offer, or under normal circumstances, has to offer a return above the rate of inflation. So whatever that return is, 1%, 2%, you stack that on top of the inflation rate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
So in other words, let's say the Fed wanted to target a 2% real return. that means that the interest rate would be 5% with the 3% rate of inflation. Whereas if inflation can be managed down to 2%, you would have a 4% interest rate. And that persistently, if we're talking permanently higher interest rate, will create a drag on the economy because lower interest rates create more investment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
Let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
They reduce the hurdle rates to take risk. Whereas higher interest rates, as we've seen, create drag on equities and drag on investments. So If they redefine the inflation rate to three instead of two, there will be long-term consequences from that. That is not a free thing to do. So that would be like one part of the answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
The other thing is just, yeah, look, inflation going from 3.1 to 3.0 is positive. It's good news. Better than it going from 3.1 to 3.2. But we're talking about 0.1%. And I just think people get a little too excited reading into these prints when these are not huge changes in numbers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Biden chaos, Soft landing secured? AI sentiment turns bearish, French elections
I do think that once the inflation rate starts with a two-handle, that psychologically, I think, will be a big change for people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I first met our next guest, Sam Altman, almost 20 years ago when he was working on a local mobile app called Looped. We were both backed by Sequoia Capital. And in fact, we were both in the first class of Sequoia Scouts. He did investment in a little unknown fintech company called Stripe. I did Uber. And in that tiny experimental fund- You did Uber?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Different is the answer then?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, you have voice working right now in the app. In fact, I set my action button on my phone to go directly to ChatGPT's voice app, and I use it with my kids, and they love it, talking to it. It's got latency issues, but it's really great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
But again, like we already- Let's talk about that, by the way. Like why is it not responsive and- you know, it feels like a CB, you know, like over, over. It's really annoying to use, you know, in that way. But it's also brilliant when it gives you the right answer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
This after it was reported that Sam was looking to raise a billion from Masayoshi-san to create an iPhone killer with Johnny Ive, the co-creator of the iPhone. All of this while chat GPT has become better and better and a household name. It's having a massive impact on how we work and how work is getting done.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's an agent in a way, like it's out there working on your behalf and understands what you want and anticipates what you want is what I'm reading into what you're saying.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And it's reportedly the fastest product to hit 100 million users in history in just two months. And check out OpenAI's insane revenue ramp up. They reportedly hit 2 billion in ARR last year. Welcome to the All In podcast, Sam Altman.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. Yeah, and push back.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So you see voice, chat, that modality kind of gets rid of apps. You just ask it for sushi. It knows sushi you liked before. It knows what you don't like and does its best shot at doing it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sax, you want to lead us off here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I mean, Apple tried with Siri. Supposedly, you can order an Uber automatically with Siri. I don't think anybody's ever done it because it's... Why would you take the risk of not putting it in your phone?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So idea of watching it happen. That's kind of cool.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So there's a big debate about training data. You guys have been, I think, the most thoughtful of any company. You've got licensing deals now, FT, et cetera. And we got to just be gentle here because you're involved in a New York Times lawsuit. You weren't able to settle, I guess, an arrangement with them for training data. How do you think about fairness in fair use
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
we've had big debates here on the pod. Obviously, your actions speak volumes that you're trying to be fair by doing licensing deals. So what's your personal position on the rights of artists who create beautiful music, lyrics, books, and you taking that and then making a derivative product out of it and then monetizing it? And what's fair here? And how do we get to a world where
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
you know, artists can make content in the world and then decide what they want other people to do with it. Yeah. And I'm just curious, your personal belief, because I know you to be a thoughtful person on this. And I know a lot of other people in our industry are not very thoughtful about how they think about content creators.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And I think your actions speak loudly. We were trying to do Star Wars characters in Dali. And if you ask for Darth Vader, it says, hey, we can't do that. So you've, I guess, red teamed or whatever you call it internally. We try.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, you're not allowing people to use other people's IP. So you've taken that decision. Now, if you asked it to make a Jedi bulldog, or a Sith Lord bulldog, which I did, it made my bulldogs as Sith bulldogs. So there's an interesting question about like, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And we talked about releasing it differently this time. Are you thinking maybe releasing it to the paid users first or a slower rollout to get the red teams tight since now there's so much at stake? You have so many customers actually paying and you've got everybody watching everything you do. You have to be more thoughtful now, yeah?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, and I think you're right. The music industry is going to consider this opportunity to make Taylor Swift songs their opportunity. It's part of the four-part fair use test is who gets to capitalize on new innovations for existing art. And Disney has an argument that, hey, you know, If you're going to make Sora versions of Ashoka or whatever, Obi-Wan Kenobi, that's Disney's opportunity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And that's a great partnership for you to pursue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
The criticism of this is that you have the resources to cozy up, to lobby, to be involved, and you've been very involved with politicians, and then startups, which you're also passionate about and invest in, are not going to have the ability to resource and deal with this, and that this regulatory capture, as per our friend You know, Bill Gurley did a great talk last year about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So maybe you could address that head on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So if you have the nuclear raw material to make a nuclear bomb, there's a small subset of people who have that. Therefore, you use the analogy of a nuclear inspector kind of situation. Yeah. I think that's interesting. Sax, you have a question?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Right. There's a lot of hand-wringing right now, Sam, about jobs. And you had a lot of, I think you did like some sort of a test when you were at YC about UBI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's just very expensive, I take it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. Chamath, your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
You were fired, you came back and it was palace intrigue. Did somebody stab you in the back? Did you find AGI? What's going on? This is a safe space.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Where were you when you found the news that you'd been fired? Take me to that moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I think that's happened to you before, J. Cal. So, you're there and they want you to get a text and they're like, fire, pick up the couch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I'm trying to think if I ever got fired. I don't think I've gotten fired. Yeah, I got a text. No, it's just a weird thing. Like, it's a text from who?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sam, this is the back channel. You are a great dealmaker. I've watched your whole career. I mean, you're just great at it. You got all these connections. You're really good at raising money. You're fantastic at it. And you got this Johnny Ive thing going. You're inhumane. You're investing in companies. You got the orb. You're raising $7 trillion to build fabs, all this stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
All of that put together, J. Cal loves fake news. I'm kind of being a little facetious here. Obviously, you're not raising $7 trillion, but maybe that's the market cap or something. Putting all that aside, the T was you're doing all these deals. They don't trust you because what's your motivation? You're end running. And what opportunities belong inside of OpenAI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
What opportunities should be Sam's? And this group of nonprofit people didn't trust you. Is that what happened? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
OK, that's not the public's perception.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
What's the chip project? That's a $7 trillion. And where did the $7 trillion number come from? It makes no sense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
All right, Sam, I know you got to go. You've been great on the hour. Come back anytime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Thanks for being so open about it. We've been talking about it for like a year plus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, you got the Zoom link. Same Zoom link every week. Same time, same Zoom link. Drop it anytime.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Just put it on your calendar. Come back to the game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That famous hand where you and I were heads up. I don't rely on me? You and I were heads up and you went all in. I had a set, but there was a straight and a flush on the board. And I'm in the tank trying to figure out if I want to lose. This is back when we played small stakes. It might have been like...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
5k pot or something and then chamath can't stay out of the pot and he starts taunting the two of us you should call you shouldn't call he's bluffing and i'm like i'm going i'm trying to figure out if i make the call here i make the call and uh it was like uh you had a really good hand and i just happen to have a set i think you had the top pair top kicker or something but
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
You made a great move because the board was so textured, almost like old bottom set.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's so much fun now. I find that really hard to believe. Have you played Bomb Pots? I don't know what that is. Okay, you'll love it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Gentlemen, some breaking news here. All those projects, he said, are part of OpenAI. That's something people didn't know before this and a lot of confusion there. Shamath, what was your major takeaway from our hour with Sam?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Freeberg, he talked a lot about reasoning. It seemed like that he kept going to reasoning and away from the language model. Did you note that and anything else that you noted in our hour with him?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sacks, you went right there with the corporate structure, the board.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
and uh he he gave us a lot more information here what are your thoughts on the hey you know the chip stuff and the other stuff i'm working on that's all part of open ai people just don't realize it and that moment and then you know your questions to him about equity your thoughts on um i'm not sure i was like the main guy who asked that question jacob but um
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, no, you do talk about the nonprofit, the difference between the nonprofit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I think that's a great insight, David, because he was talking about, hey, I'm looking for a senior team member who can push back on me and understands all context. I thought that was like a very interesting to think about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And we can talk about the Apple ad in depth. I just want to also make sure people understand when people come on the pod, we don't show them questions. They don't edit the transcript. Nothing is out of bounds. If you were wondering why I didn't ask or we didn't ask about the Elon lawsuit, he's just not going to be able to comment on that. So it'd be a no comment. So, you know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
I just want to make sure people understand.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, let's take a bio break and then we'll come back with some news for you and some more banter with your favorite besties on the number one podcast in the world, the All In Podcast. All right, welcome back, everybody. Second half of the show, great guests, Sam Altman, thanks for coming on the pod. We've got a bunch of news on the docket, so let's get started.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Freyberg, you told me I could give some names of the guests that we've booked for the All In Summit. I did not. You did.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
enough critical mass uh to feel like we should go out there well uh i am a loose cannon so i will announce my two guests and i created the summit and you took it from me so i've done a great job i will announce my guests i don't care what your opinion is i have booked two guests for the summit and it's going to be sold out look at these two guests i booked
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
For the third time coming back to the summit, our guy Elon Musk will be there. Hopefully in person, if not, you know, from 40,000 feet on Starlink connection, wherever he is in the world. And for the first time, our friend Mark Cuban will be coming. And so two great guests for you to look forward to. But Freeberg's got like a thousand guests coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
He'll tell you when it's like 48 hours before the conference. But yeah, two great guests coming.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Three billionaires, yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It hasn't fully confirmed, so don't... Okay, well, we're going to say it anyway. As penciled in. Don't say it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
We'll say penciled. Yeah, don't back out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It is stunning. Just congratulations. And yeah, it was just, when we went through the deck at the, at the monthly meeting, it was like, oh, that's nice. Oh, that's nice. We're going through the concept bottles. And then that bottle came up and everybody went like crazy. It was like somebody hitting like a Steph Curry hitting a half court shot. It was like, oh my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It was just so clear that you've made an iconic bottle of, that if we can produce it, oh, Lord, it is going to be a game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's going to be amazing. I'm excited. I'm excited for it. You know, it's like for other things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Listen, people have the right to protest. I think it's great people are protesting, but surrounding people and threatening them is a little bit over the top and dangerous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, I don't know exactly what happened because all we see is these videos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That's what the headlines say, but that could be fake news, fake social.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That tiny experimental fund that Sam and I were part of as scouts is Sequoia's highest multiple returning fund. A couple of low-digit millions turned into over 200 million, I'm told. Really? Yeah, that's what I was told by Ruloff, yeah. And he did a stint at Y Combinator, where he was president from 2014 to 2019.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's ridiculous. The only thing I will say that I've seen is this surrounding individuals who you don't want there and locking them in a circle and then moving them out of the protest area.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, it's also dangerous because, you know, things can escalate when you have mobs of people and large groups of people. So I just want to make sure people understand that. Large group of people, you have a diffusion of responsibility that occurs when there's large groups of people who are passionate about things and people can get hurt. People have gotten killed at these things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So just, you know, keep it calm, everybody. I agree with you. Like, what's the harm of these folks protesting on a lawn? It's not a big deal. When they break into buildings, of Of course.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, but I mean, let them sit out there and then they'll run out their food cars, their campus food cart, and they'll run out of waffles.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
My favorite was the woman who came out and said that the Columbia students needed humanitarian aid.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Is it really? I haven't heard the word peaceable before. I mean, you and I are simpatico on this. Like, I don't... We used to have the ACLU backing up the KKK going down Main Street and really fighting for... Yeah, the Skokie decision. Yeah, they were really fighting for... And I have to say, the Overton window is opened back up. And I think it's great. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
We got some things on the docket here. I don't know if you guys saw the Apple new iPad ad. It's getting a bunch of criticism. They used some giant... hydraulic press to crush a bunch of creative tools, DJ turntable, trumpet, piano. People really care about Apple's ads and what they represent. We talked about that Mother Earth little vignette they created here. What do you think, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Will you do? Will you do that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Did you see the ad? What was your reaction to it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. It just didn't land. I mean, Chamatha, how are you doing emotionally after seeing that? Are you okay, buddy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
They were floating this rumor of buying Rivian, you know, after they shut down Titan Project, the internal project to make a car. It seems like a car is the only thing people can think of that would move the needle in terms of earnings.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It was the best onion thing. It was like, we're doing 5. F it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
No, it makes no sense. And then, I don't know, anybody wants to... Remember the Apple Vision was going to change everything?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's a fair point. It's a fair point. Actually, you know what? Actually, this didn't come out yet, but it turns out the iPad is on Ozempic. It's actually dropped.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Oh, oh, oh, Ozempic. We could just workshop that right here. But there was another funny one, which was making the iPhone smaller and smaller and smaller and the iPod smaller and smaller and smaller to the point it was like, you know, like a thumb size iPhone. Like the Ben Stiller phone in Zoolander.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Is there a category that you can think of that you would love an Apple product for? There's a product in your life. that you would love to have Apple's version of it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's a bummer, yeah. The one I always wanted to see them do, Zach, was... TV? The one I always wanted to see them do was the TV, and they were supposedly working on it, like the actual TV, not the little Apple TV box in the back. And that would have been extraordinary to actually have a gorgeous, you know, big television.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, it is. And they want to have everything built there. People don't remember, but they actually built one of the first digital cameras. You must have owned this, right, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, totally. It was beautiful. What did they call it? Was it the iCamera or something?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
QuickTake, yeah. The thing I would like to see Apple build, and I'm surprised they didn't, was a smart home system the way Apple has Nest. Drop cam, a door lock, you know, AV system, go after Questron or whatever, and just have your whole home automated thermostat nest. All of that would be brilliant by Apple. And right now I'm an Apple family that has all of our home automation through Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
So it's just kind of sucks. I would like that all to be integrated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yes. I mean, and everybody has a home, and everybody automates their home.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Right. That would be your hub.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah. Like, can you imagine like the ring cameras, all that stuff being integrated? I don't know why they didn't go after that. That seems like the easy layup. Hey, you know, everybody's been talking, Friedberg, about this alpha fold, this folding proteins thing. And there's some new version out from Google.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And also, Google reportedly, we talked about this before, is also advancing talks to acquire HubSpot. So that rumor for the $30 billion market cap, HubSpot is out there as well. Freebreak, you're our resident science sultan, our resident sultan of science. And as a Google alumni, pick either story and let's go for it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Super interesting. Is this AI capable of making a science corner that David Sachs pays attention to?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
When you founded the organization, the stated goal or part of what you discussed was, hey, this is too important for any one company to own it. So therefore, it needs to be open. Then there was the switch. Hey, it's too dangerous for anybody to be able to see it. And we need to lock this down because you had some fear about that, I think. Is that accurate?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Folding Cells is the app that Saks, a casual game Saks just downloaded, is playing. How many chess moves did you make during that segment, Saks?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And this is a hundred billion dollar business. They say, Oh my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yeah, open source when you're behind, closed source, lock it up when you're ahead. The Yamanaka, actually, interestingly, Yamanaka is the Japanese whiskey that Saks serves on his plane as well. It's delicious. I love that Hokkaido, Yakanama.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Somebody told me I should do, um, like Spalding gray, Eric Boghossian style stuff. I don't know if you guys remember like the, uh, the monologue is from the eighties in New York. It's like, Oh, that's interesting. Maybe. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. Can you believe we did it? Uh, the number one podcast in the world. And yeah,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Because the cynical side is like, well, this is a capitalistic move. And then the, I think, You know, I'm curious what the decision was here in terms of going from open. The world needs to see this. It's really important to close. Only we can see it. Well, how did you come to that conclusion?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
The All In Summit, the TED killer. If you are going to TED, congratulations for genuflecting. If you want to talk about real issues, come to the All In Summit. And if you are protesting at the all-in summit, let us know what mock meat you would like to have. Freeburg is setting up mock meat stations for all of our protesters. And what milk you would like. Yeah, all vegan.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
If you want, if you're oat milk, soy nut milk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Just please, when you come to protest.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
We have all of the nut milks you could want. And then there'll be mindful yoga with guns.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yes. On the south lawn, we'll have the goat yoga going on. So, just please note that. The goat yoga will be going on for all of you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
It's very thoughtful for you to make sure that our protesters are going to be well fed, well taken care of.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Yes. We're actually – Freiburg is working on the protester gift bags. The protester gift bags. They're made of Yakima-folded proteins. So, you're good. Yeah. Folding projects. I think I saw them opening for the Smashing Pumpkins in 2003. On fire.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
That's episode 178. And now the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th. You can apply for a ticket at summit.allinpodcast.co. Scholarships will be coming soon. If you want to see the four of us interview Sam Altman, you can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we post. We're doing a Q&A episode live when the YouTube channel hits 500,000. And we're going to do a party in Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers. So look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash the all in pod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, the all in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
In 2016, he co-founded OpenAI with the goal of ensuring that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity. In 2019, he left YC to join OpenAI full-time as CEO. Things got really interesting on November 30th of 2022. That's the day OpenAI launched ChatGPT. In January 2023, Microsoft invested $10 billion. In November 2023, Over a crazy five-day span, Sam was fired from OpenAI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
And on LinkedIn, just search for the All In Podcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash Freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. And you can follow Sachs at x.com slash David Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Sachs recently spoke at the American Moment Conference and people are going crazy for it. It's pinned to his tweet on his ex-profile. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher. Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, et cetera. allinpodcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Everybody was going to go work at Microsoft. A bunch of heart emojis went viral on X slash Twitter, and people started speculating that the team had reached artificial general intelligence. The world was going to end, and suddenly... A couple days later, he was back to being the CEO of OpenAI. In February, Sam was reportedly looking to raise $7 trillion for an AI chip project.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sam Altman
Well, you've been working with Johnny Ive on something, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Sorry, everybody. I wasn't here last week. So what's your bid, J. Cal? Jump into your bid. No, there's no bid. I'm just, you know, triple vaxxed. I took the Paxlovid and I'm back, everybody. I know everybody was very concerned about me. Thank you to everybody. But I can take my mask off, right, Freeberg? Do I need a mask in 2024?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, it is a very unique SACS geography and economy. So SACS, your thoughts on this overall and what we can expect. Maybe you could take the future looking, forward looking and prediction crystal ball. Go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
This was, I think, in Us Weekly. Here it is. Here's Chamath getting his gold medal. Okay. Oops. Whoa. Now, this is in the category of being the biggest prick. Now, just let people know, Chamath has been the biggest prick. Other people were there, too, by the way. It wasn't just Chamath. Freeberg was also there. Here's Freeberg. Most likely to fight a girl. Yeah, there it is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It's one huge upside to the SACs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, and obviously when you get 158 yen to the dollar, this is extraordinary. I was talking with Tucker and we just took our Niseko ski trip this year from four days to seven because it is just such a great deal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And Chamath, at some point, the percentage of your debt to GDP, we've talked about it so much on this show. You've said previously, hey, we can have a little bit of this because we're a very strong dollar. So when you look at Japan, is there some lesson here for the US or maybe some warning here that we shouldn't necessarily follow them too far down this road? Nope. Okay. Keep printing money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Got it. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Well, just buy Bitcoin. And when it goes to a million dollars a coin, we can just pay it all down. So problem solved.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He was in the... Am I the Syrian...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So should we have more increased regulation or increased scrutiny on this, Chamath? You've talked about it before when we had some of these hedge funds flip and we talked about maybe some regulation, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Sax was there too, though, by the way. Here he is. He won silver for the least Olympic body. Well done, Sax. Look at that. The least. Look at that pasty white. I think you got robbed of the gold. There you go, Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And so people at home understand when we move on to the next phase of the financial markets, All of those people had to cover those trades, which means they all have to sell assets at the same time as buying in or covering the end. And that's what causes this acute chaos in the markets where you saw the NASDAQ go down 6%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Or in some cases, maybe people wanted to take some chips off the table since things were- Yeah, but they're just going to put that trade back on.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So let's talk about the landing here in the US. Let's get US-centric now. And it looks like maybe it's going to be a bumpy landing rather than a soft landing, as one might suspect. And as we talked about here, that we think this could be bumpy to soft. July's job reports was pretty bad, which is good in some ways when you're thinking about inflation. So the new jobs added were way down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Growing 114,000 in July. And a bunch of these estimates have been reported downward over the past year, just so we make a note of that. And this was below the Dow Jones estimate of 185,000. There's your chart. It just keeps ticking down.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Since the Fed started hiking rates, and you hear anecdotally about all of your friends, 88% of millennials right now are actually preparing to be laid off, according to a recent survey. Unemployment is way up in the short term here. We're at 4.3% in July. That's the highest since October of 2021, up from 4.1%. last month and 3.5% in July.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
At the very least, the Ozeptic and Wegovy, you lost the weight, but you didn't add any muscle definition. That's known, right, Friedberg? It's known. You lose the muscle, right? That's right. Fat and the muscle. I was there too, by the way, and I'm very, very proud to say, in a photo finish, you can see me there. You guys know this one, right? This is the 100-meter virtue signal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So you take that July number to now, it's pretty significant. Here's your chart on the jobs. Obviously, historically, it's low, but it's ticking up pretty quickly, which is what you would expect with the rate hikes. And we had this great moment of hourly earnings growth going up. So how much people make on average
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
per hour was going up, and I think that was causing a decent amount of the consumer enthusiasm in the economy. Here it is. It's coming way down from almost 6% down to 3.5%. And so that means Fed rate cuts are coming. Here's your chart from a prediction market of the chances of how much the Fed cuts rates this year. Looks like 75 to 100 basis points is the majority.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
About 60% of people believe it will be one of those two numbers. I'll stop there. There's a lot more to talk about here and we'll get into specific companies and the NASDAQ. Let me pull up this last chart before I go to you, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It's been a strong year for the market, S&P and NASDAQ, both up 11% year to date as of Thursday morning, but obviously a massive, I guess, do we call it a correction when it's, yeah, 20% is correction territory, Chamath. So your thoughts on the wider US market and the sell-off?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay. Freiburg technical definition of a recession is two quarters in a row of negative GDP. We haven't had that, but we're sort of bouncing along that possibility. Is the recession baked in or if they cut rates at the extent the prediction markets are predicting and they're signaling, do you think we have a nice rebound? How do you feel about the overall US economy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So you see there, Reid Hoffman just edged me out, and I'm right ahead of Paul Graham. So virtue signaling, 100 meter dash. It was pretty grand. It was pretty grand. But congrats to Reid Hoffman also coming on the pod to debate you, Sext.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Sachs, let's talk about this soft to bumpy landing. Consumers are definitely weakening on the low end. Airbnb and Amazon are an example of bargain hunting, people who are looking for discounts, who want to save money with those services. Higher end services that have a bigger price tag like Uber and some of the
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay, so let me take one of these off.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
high-end retailers are showing actual growth, and they're saying the consumer's strong. So it was a tale of two cities during this earnings season with a bunch of the high-end folks saying strong consumers on the high end, weak consumers on the low end. What are the chances we go into a recession?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And a second question for you, Elon was recently on Lex Freeman for, I think, eight days or something. It was like a record podcast of how long he was on. But one of the things he talked about was that he had discussed with Trump And Vivek has been very strong about this on our podcast and other places.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And he was a leading VP candidate of making the government more efficient and radically cutting the amount of spending. But there would be a reaction. So does the potential GOP administration have a platform to cut costs massively or not? And do you think that would have been maybe too unpopular to sort of unveil that plan now as a presidential candidate in either party?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I know. Very hard. I felt like silver in this case was a gold, given the competition, right? If you meddle in that group of virtue signals, you're good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
10% year over year, 5% month over month is very significant, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
All right. Well, listen, I want to corner everybody here with a question. You got to answer the question. You can't avoid the hard questions here on the All In podcast. Chamath, sitting here a year from now, mark it up or we experience a recession defined as two quarters of negative GDP. Which one is the more likely scenario? Mark it up or a recession.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Give it a percentage or just which is more likely? Freeberg, you're next.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
All right, everybody, welcome back to the All In podcast. Of course, the number one podcast in the world.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay. So you lean towards... I'll just go recession, no recession in the next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Ah, got it. Okay. So we could have a recession, but the market goes up. So to unpack that, I am with you on that same prediction, because I do think people are addicted to efficiency. They're going to lay people off and earnings are going to keep ripping as these companies become managed so well.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I think it's a good point, but I do see McDonald's, Starbucks, and some of those consumer retailers are taking steps right now to right-size their businesses and offer $5 meals or $3 coffee. So I do think there's a
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Well, but they're also cutting stores and they're cutting things and projects that are inefficient. So I just think there's going to be massive efficiency in all sectors. That's going to be the theme for the next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
What was a whole fish? Tell us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
and i'm back daddy's home and we've got a very full docket sacks will get his red meat at the end for all the maga lunatics in the comments don't worry he's gonna get his red meat but we got bigger fish to fry in the markets markets were down big on monday due to something called the yen carry trade The Dow was down 700 points. NASDAQ was down like 6%. It was unsettling.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Freiburg, greater chance of a recession in the next year or not a recession? You have to give an answer. Yeah, I think there's a great chance of a recession. Yeah, majority chance of recession, got it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It's getting uncomfortable. You're in the clear for one. Okay, you know what? I'll take the third mask off. Totally free. Mask free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So are you majority case recession or majority case not recession in the next year?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You predicted nine of the last five recessions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Unknown unknowns. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Social media went crazy on Sunday night that it was going to be the end of the world, the beginning of a recession, maybe a depression. And this all happened because Japan's central bank raised their interest rates by a whopping... 15 to 25 basis points. And we'll explain why that's important in just a moment. We'll get Chamath to give us a little overview here of the yen carry trade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And for people who don't know, we're talking about the concept of black swans. In order to have a black swan, it has to be something you're not aware of and it has to have a dramatic impact. The yen trade would not fall into this because people were well aware of it, even if it wasn't front page news and it didn't have a dramatic impact. But there could be black swans sitting there
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Obviously, the black swan that you can think of recently would be in the great financial crisis, the subprime mortgage. That truly was massively impactful, and it was not known. Dotcom was known and was massively impacted. You need both of those categories to define a black swan. And there could be black swans, right, Sax? Is what you're saying.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Correct. But it didn't. So just so people who are tracking the Black Swan tracker, just the more you know. Let's talk about Apple. Chamath, I'll give you your flowers right now. They're coming to you. Just look to your left. Here comes a huge bouquet because you predicted... I didn't actually send you flowers. He looked to his left. But here's your virtual flowers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You predicted, I think absolutely correctly, that the less Berkshire Hathaway and Buffett talk in their documents and their letters and at their events about a trade, the more they're falling out of love with it. And I understand Berkshire Hathaway has sold half of their largest position, which is Apple. Some people are saying because they don't have faith in the company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Some people are saying because they're over... other people saying because they, Freiburg, want to get more cash on the books to make other acquisitions. So Chamath, maybe just take your victory lap and then we'll, I think Freiburg double clicked on this and did a deep dive.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
But this is a big deal because Japan has had its interest rates at near zero, even negative since 1999. So this little blip on the chart is the interest rate going up there in Japan. So quick explainer, and then Chamath will have you go deeper. The yen carry trade is a pretty basic concept investors borrow at 0% interest or close to it due to this 0% interest rate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I don't know. I think it's pretty deft. Sachs, your thoughts on this massive increase in cash and what Berkshire Hathaway is thinking. What is Warren Buffett thinking here? Is it he became overweight, Apple, or that he's building up cash because the recession is coming and he wants to buy things on the cheap? Or regulation, to Freiburg's point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
What do you think of the regulatory risk argument Freeberg is floating here, Chamath?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And then you convert your yen into another currency or perhaps a stock like Nvidia and you take the spread. So the goal is obviously to return a higher rate than the cost of borrowing the yen. And so here's an example of it. If you just want to look at the flow, you borrow some yen at 0%, you invested in stocks, whatever,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So what you're saying, China dependency, both of those have a China dependency. So he maybe felt the overall portfolio had too much China dependency.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
When you say that, you're saying he wants to hand it off with less risk in it. Dependency on one stock would be risk. Dependency on China would be risk. He wants to make it really clean so the handoff is smoother. He wants to hand off a very organized book.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You get some appreciation, and then you liquidate the stocks, and you pay back your bill. Of course, this could all go horribly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I mean, this is just an extraordinary amount of cash to be held by both Apple. Apple also has over $100 billion in cash now. Warren Buffett has close to $300 billion. Allocators want to make trades, and obviously he's got a better trade I think he can make on this, whether that's the 5% he's going to get on the $300 billion, or maybe there's something he wants to buy. That's another possibility.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So great job wrapping this all up. And let's pivot to the federal judge that ruled that Google has an illegal monopoly in search and advertising. This is huge news. Perhaps this is the biggest news in the tech industry for a couple of years. On Monday, a judge ruled that Google had acted illegally to maintain its monopoly in online search.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
If you remember, this was filed under the Trump administration in 2020 by the DOG. The 277-page ruling agrees that Google abused its search business monopoly by paying billions of dollars to third-party platforms like Apple and Samsung in order to be their default search engine. So it's not just that you have the monopoly, it's how you maintain the monopoly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
This is called TAC, Traffic Acquisition Cost. We've talked about it here many times. According to the suit, Google conducts around 90% of web searches. I think we all know that. Companies disputing that claim. The ruling doesn't contain remedies yet for Google's behavior. They're going to decide that in a subsequent ruling. Obviously, Google is going to fight this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It could result in a change in business practices, i.e., they cannot pay Firefox, Samsung, Apple to be the default search engine anymore. That will lead to many interesting possibilities. Chamath and I were discussing them on X.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
and so this is huge news uh this is going to be great i think for the search engine market i know apple from my time doing mahalo a human powered search engine over 10 years ago when i sent it to steve jobs he opened it up in the middle of the night and started playing with it and there were many reviews of or many rumors of apple wanting to be in the search business because they had a contentious relationship with google obviously
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
When Google competed with Android, that upset Steve Jobs greatly. And also Google created Chrome, which also Safari and Chrome competing with each other. It's not out of the question, I think Chamath, that you could see Apple when they lose this $20, $30 billion deal for TAC, to start their own search engine by DuckDuckGo. Brave has an amazing search engine and a search API.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And they've obviously, they've got a crawler. So people don't know this, but Apple has a crawler. My prediction is Apple buys a search engine and they go it alone and expand their advertising network like Amazon, Uber, and other companies have. What's your take on this and what we're going to see in the future? Will this ruling stand up? And then what are the downtree market impacts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, and you just have to pay back the loan. Of course, Chamath, this can all go very wrong if a number of things happen. So maybe you could give us an overview of this kind of trade. Have you ever done something like this? What do you think of these type of trades, these quote-unquote free money trades, picking up free money off the ground trades?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay, Sachs, not to make it political, but this is the government stopping corporate America, so it can't not be political. What's your take here and what will we see in the future? More regulation, more rulings like this, slap on the wrist, breakup. Is this more to come or this is peak regulation in your mind of big tech?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Here's a real time search. I just did Donald Trump. As you can see, the first one that came up was a Harris story about Trump and Harris. Google has actually addressed this issue. The issue is actually, I think, I'll take a little bit of the other side of it, not bias in the algorithm, but bias in media. The overwhelming majority of media is left-leaning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
and there's a very small amount of Republican right-leaning media when compared to the left, obviously. And so when you do a search for Donald Trump, you've got the first three choices, New York Times left-leaning, Washington Post left-leaning, Newsweek left-leaning, CNN left-leaning, Daily Beast super left-leaning. Five of five are left-leaning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
That really is the issue, is that there isn't enough GOP or right-leaning media to actually make this work. That's at least my take on it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Well,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Let me just give the statistics here. Hold on. Kamala Harris, I just did a search. First five, New York Times, NBC, The Hill, CNN. Is The Hill right or left? I don't know. They're left. Would you say sex? It's left, yeah. They're left. And then Forbes- which I think would be considered right. And then Fox, obviously, right. So, I mean, it's just the percentage of news sources here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yes, ma'am.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay, explain unwinding, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I'm going to take the complete other side of this, but Freberg, I want to give you a chance because you worked at Google. I think you know a lot about the algorithm. Is there an explanation for this that makes technical, logical sense given what you know about the algorithm? And then I'll give my position and then Chamath, you can go ahead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I don't believe that. Hold on. Let me get Chamath involved here on this issue, and then I'll give my position. Chamath, do you have any thoughts on this, generally speaking? I do want to come back to the antitrust ruling in a minute. Okay, absolutely. Sachs thinks the fix is in. Freberg thinks this is explained algorithmically, but...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
that Google could do a better job explaining and being more transparent about the algorithm. I agree with that. 100% Google has always considered a black box.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
The number of independent journalists in left-leaning publications is like 30 to 1 at that. places like Fox News, which is largely opinion daily, largely opinion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He didn't say, Sachs, I got to stop you there. He didn't say biased. What we said was it's 20 or 30 to one. It's outnumbering. So if the pool of things to search and come up with is 30 to one, it's of course going to appear biased, which is what they need to do is they need to show who's in the ranking, what percentage are left, what percentage are right, what percentage are middle of the road.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Show that at the top.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay, I'll tell you the also answer. Um, this was the week Kamala, or this the last 10 days or so of Kamala taking the position, raising tons of money, hiring her VP and Trump disappearing from public life for 10 days. So there's also a, on top of the 30 to one ratio, let's say left-leaning journalists to right. You also have, this was Kamala's coronation week.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
So therefore it's going to be, I don't think Google is in the bag with our algorithm anyway. I think it's the source material they're indexing. Chamath, what are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I got the COVID. Just to explain to everybody, I went to Billy Joel's final concert with my daughter. We had a great time. It was his final MSG.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Let me finish.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay, I feel like Saxon and I got to the perfect place. I agree. Google's filled with obviously left-leaning. Don't deny that. I agree that the media is biased. They all picked a side. And then I just want to show you one chart because it's super important for you to understand. The number of people in...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
journalism, this is from 1971 to 2022, who say they are identifying as Republican has just absolutely plummeted. I know this, and this is what I'm trying to explain to you, Sax, is an incredible opportunity for your party, since you're passionate about this, is to invest in more journalism, invest in more journalists, because I don't buy this independence.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
The fact that they're claiming they're independent in journalism, I believe that's cap. I believe they say that. But the gap is 33% now between people who say they're Democrats and people who say they're Republican in journalism. That is a key piece to this problem. And layered on top of it, I agree with you that Google is filled with liberal people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And I agree with you, Chamath, that they need to intervene and put at the top of the search results in news These are the, you know, this is what we're indexing. This is the percentage that's left-leaning. This is the percentage that's right-leaning. And there are a lot of organizations that examine and rate publications on their bias left and right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And that's something that Google could do that's very unique and that could move the whole country forward.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
which is they could showcase that up top. So to my friends at Google who are listening, do a better job of just being more transparent so we don't have this tension in society. Okay, it's time for Sax's red meat. Sax, we have a VP candidate. You have been absolutely waiting for this moment. The race is a dead heat. Here's your second course of red meat. I brought you that giant.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You know what this is?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It's the steak- This is the stake for two for one. You ordered the stake for two for one, Sax. Get in there. Medium rare. You got your cowboy cut. What did you think when you saw Kamala Harris and her VP pick move ahead in the almost universally all polls and prediction markets to the lead over your boys, Trump and Vance. What did you think of the pick? Go ahead. Enjoy your steak.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And you want to speculate? Your chance to bash the Democrats and speculate. Go, Chimam.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Okay. Freeberg, your thoughts? We're dancing around the issue here. You had talked a couple of weeks ago about an organization that didn't want to put a Jewish person in the top position or in a top position. Do you think that this is, or there are any concerns of Shapiro being Jewish that caused him not to be selected?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Or do you think maybe he bowed out because he wants to run for president, as some people are saying, and maybe his star shines a little too bright for the second position? What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Marble is an interesting term.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
It means it's absolutely in the fabric.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, no, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Or he was deployed during that time. I think this sounds like a lot of cap. He was deployed during that time, but he wasn't in combat, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He would have outshined her for sure. Shapiro is really good at speaking and eloquent and she's not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
There's no bit here. I'm just saying, I'm letting people know that I think I got COVID at the last Billy Joel show. It was a great show. Shout out, Billy Joel. But it was 48 hours. That was very intense. And then I took that Paxlovid and I came right out of it. So apologies to everybody. But man, it was no joke.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Here is the quote in question. Harris campaign, and this is from the New York Times, had promoted this on social media, just so we're clear when we're making all these claims that he did steal valor, that he has not been convicted of stealing valor, which is a natural crime. Just so we get things right here on the pod. Here's the quote.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
that he said we can make sure that those weapons of war that I carried in war is the only place where those weapons are act and so mister waltz never served in combat and that quote that he made I guess people are now weaponizing to say that he's saying, here's a quote, those weapons of war that I carried in war is the only place where those weapons are. So he was not in war, technically.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
He was a reserve, and his battalion was going to be
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
uh called he claims so that's a guess what we are questioning and vance said i'd be ashamed if i was him and i lied about my military service like he did this i could see where people might be a little bit i can see both sides of this issue so actually want to uh dunk on him or yeah i'm not going to dunk because this is still an unfolding story and it's going to play out over the next couple weeks and we'll see where it lands but
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I would like to thank both JD Vance and Waltz for their service. I appreciate both of their service. I'll leave it at that from my perspective.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Of course not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Of course, yeah. So I guess we'll see how this plays out. All right, everybody, this has been another amazing episode of the All In podcast. To recap, Google's big news, the markets are in flux, the end trade is off, and Kamala Harris leads the race. We've got eight weeks left. We'll be here for you every single week, and we will be seeing some of you at the, I believe, sold out All In Summit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Are we sold out right now, Friedberg? Master of Ceremonies, Friedberg, executive producer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
What do people need to know about their party outfits?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I'm going to work on my... Biff, get your damn hands off her, Biff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
McFly. McFly. All I know is Tremat's wearing a Speedo.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Biff, get your damn heads off her. I love you guys. I gotta go. Love you. Okay. Enjoy Italy. We'll see you on the lake, everybody. For the Sultan of Science, the architect, the dictator, I am the executive producer and world's greatest moderator, Executive Producer for Life. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Love you, boys. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, S. I'm the queen of Wet your feet. We need to get merchies already.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And now, the plugs. The All In Summit is taking place in Los Angeles, September 8th, 9th, and 10th. You can apply for tickets, summit.allinpodcast.co. And you can subscribe to this show on YouTube. Yes, watch all the videos. Our YouTube channel has passed 500,000 subscribers. Shout out to Donnie from Queens. Follow the show, x.com slash the all in pod. TikTok, the all in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Instagram, the all in pod. LinkedIn, search for all in podcast. And to follow Chamath, he's x.com slash Chamath. Sign up for his weekly email. What I read this week at chamath.substack.com and sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and see what all the excitement is about. Follow Sachs at x.com slash davidsachs and sign up for Glue at glue.ai. Follow Friedberg, x.com slash friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. I am the world's greatest moderator, Jason Calacanis. If you are a founder and you want to come to my accelerators and my programs, founder.university, launch.close.apply to apply for funding from your boy, J-Cal, for your startup. End. Check out athenowow.com. This is the company I am most excited about at the moment.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
athenowow.com to get a virtual assistant for about $3,000 a month. I have two of them. Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. You can help by telling just two friends. That's all I ask. Forward this podcast to two friends and say, this is the world's greatest podcast. You got to check it out. It'll make you smarter. It'll make you laugh, laugh while learning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye. Pull up this clip of Hellmuth, because he loves when we talk about him on the show. Even though he's banned from the show by Chamath for life. He took Saks, the battery pack of the log. He got... This guy had pocket jacks to his ace queen, I think. He hits his queen or his ace, and he loses his mind, but he's in good spirits for the first half of this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Play this clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You want me to quit?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
No, no.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, there is no free money in this free money trade. And just to translate a little bit of this on the margins for the audience who's not familiar with it, margin is a loan. Fancy way of saying a loan, margin call, you have some asset that backs it up. In your case, it might be a civilian, it might be your house, whatever, your bank account.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
In these cases, these big companies, these hedge funds might have cash or equities. And if they come down and they have to pay the loan, they are forced to liquidate it. And in some cases, those assets are controlled by the person giving the loan, and they will just start programmatically selling your shares in whatever, Apple, Google, whatever, Nvidia, you own- Whatever you own.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
... to pay down that margin. And this is called a margin call, thus the name of the movie. And so it's incredibly dangerous. And the leverage is You and I can, or like any civilian, could borrow $500,000 against their $2 million house and home equity. Rich people in these big banks, they can borrow 10 or 20 times the value of the assets, which then could lead to absolute chaos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Freeberg, let's go to you next and just talk a little bit about what's going on in Japan because they have had a rush of people buying their stocks, the population declining. It's a very unique situation. economy, maybe you could talk a little bit about it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Great story.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I sneezed earlier today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah. The Olympics happened. Are you guys taking the Olympics at all? Freeberg, you seem like a guy who would watch obscure Olympic sports.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Anyway, it's all moot because, you know, the paparazzi were there and they took pictures, Chamath. Do you know this big paparazzi in Paris this year because of all the celebrities there? Yeah, the paps are all over the place in Europe. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. I'm sure you saw them in Italy. It's getting crazy. But they got you when you were getting your gold medal. Nick, pull it up.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And so they're setting, Friedberg, the interest rate in the country and they own the debt. So they're basically in control of, or they're manipulating the economy and trying to control it. Correct, Friedberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
And if they don't pay a high interest rate, then people don't buy future bonds. If they do raise it, they have to pay that rate. So this is the conundrum, Friedberg, if I were to summarize it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
But also buying the debt, Chamath, who's buying debt if you're not getting anything on the coupon, correct? That's another challenge they face in Japan is that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, everybody, welcome to the world's greatest podcast. With me again today. The world's number one podcast. Yes, the world's number one podcast. We came in eighth last week, I think, for those of you looking at the iTunes rankings, which is absurd. We've only got to beat Ben Shapiro. Number eight across all of Apple? Something like that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
What happened? Did Uber get bought by Tesla?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh, breaking news story. Hold on. It's a breaking news story. Tesla has launched mezcal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, Snacks. Why are you destroying democracy?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Breaking news.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
There you go. Wait a second. Is this going to compete with the all-in? A little bit. A little bit. Uh-oh. Well, it'll be all sold out by the time we launch our ball.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We're both going to be sold out. See that? Everybody can win. It's not a zero-sum game. Everybody can secure the bag. All right, let's get into the docket. Enough of the self-referential.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We're all influencers. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot of federal regulation going on around AI, as we know, regulatory capture. Shout out to our guy, Bill Gurley, who did a great talk last year about this. On Wednesday, the New York Times reported that the DOJ and the FTC had struck a deal on how to go after AI incumbents. Here's the terms of the deal. And again, this is all breaking.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
The DOJ gets to investigate whether NVIDIA violated antitrust laws. They didn't specify what they're going after here, but it could include the NVIDIA use of CUDA software to lock customers into using their GPUs, or maybe how NVIDIA distributes their GPUs to customers. There's a lot of regulation around that. And the FTC takes the lead on looking into OpenAI's conduct in Microsoft's AI deals.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Obviously, there's been a ton of those including acqui hires, etc. And then just this morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that the FTC had opened a probe into Microsoft's deal with inflection AI. That's the one if you remember, where they bought the staff and then did some fakaka crazy commerce deal where they give them a bunch of money, I guess to bail out the investors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And that one is as conflicted up and down as you could possibly imagine. They note Microsoft structured that deal in a way that could avoid regulatory scrutiny. You heard that here first, actually. We talked about this concept of a shadow acqui-hire on this very program when we saw it, because we'd never seen a deal like that. It includes that $650 million licensing fee. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
There's tons of other angles here. But let's start with you, Chamath. What are your thoughts on this regulatory capture and Nvidia's ascension? For those of you not watching, it's almost become the largest market cap company in tech. Actually, today, Nvidia passed Apple for a moment in time. So this is pretty crazy what we've seen with Nvidia. And here we go, regulatory capture coming in hot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Chamath, your thoughts? I have two thoughts. They're sort of mixed emotions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
That's actually the key issue. And this goes to Chamath, what we talked about. If we're going to police something, tactics... makes sense, not future competition, which has been Lena Kahn's sort of approach to this. And she's only going to be in the position for another couple of months if the election goes the way it's going. So this might all be moot.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Freeberg, I want to get your thoughts on this. We had that great talk, 2,851 miles from Bill and regulatory capture at the summit. You can look, it would be in the show notes if you haven't seen it. It's great talk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Just regulatory capture in the framing of AI? Is it too early? Hey, we're like, in the we're not even in the first inning here. And already, we're going to start investigating everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Your thoughts, David Sachs, especially in light of the fact that looking like we're going to have some regime change in Washington and the FTC is going to turn over, obviously, if that happens.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I'd say two is a good way to look at it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, and if you want to understand why people are coming to your fundraiser tonight, if you put all this together, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're a venture capitalist or an entrepreneur and you want to see M&A and you want to see entrepreneurship and you want to see your companies thrive and you want to see your employees get rich and have options, Biden is basically handing the election to Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And this speaks to this desal versus acceleration movement that we see here in Silicon Valley and this is what we see in Texas. Florida, UAE, Riyadh, Doha. There are places in the world, Singapore, where people are accelerating innovation. And this is what humans want. Not just entrepreneurs, not just venture capitals. All of us want to see an acceleration of innovation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Everybody wants to see prosperity. And if you put yourself up as the de-sell candidate, we're not going to allow M&A. We're going to screw with options. We're going to do all this stuff. People are just not going to vote for you. And people want crypto legal. So take the memo.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I mean, the fact that the Democrats can't field a candidate that aligns with what humanity wants is absolutely mind boggling. This is why I think Biden's getting hot swapped this month. You heard it here first. Gavin is going to be running for president. It's going to be Trump and Gavin. They are hot swapping Biden after this first debate. Biden is going to get demolished by Trump in the debate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, whatever their top episodes are on the weekends. Well, that means we crushed on Spotify then.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
It's going to be elder abuse. He's getting wiped out and hot swapped. You heard it here first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
If you made a list, let's just make the list here right now. Make the list of things Trump is in support of, right? And Republicans are in support of right now. They're going to be pro M&A. They're going to be pro crypto. They're going to be pro less taxes. They're going to be pro law and order. You know what? That's where I align. Those are the things I want.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So if you just list the issues for me, despite how I might feel about Trump and some of the things he's done, he checks off all my boxes. He checks off all my boxes. And I think that's what's happening here. And people were scared to come out and say, this person checks off all my boxes. The Democrats need to realize they're out of sync with America.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They're out of sync with powerful people in America, especially the donor base. They're the decel party now. And they just have to flip this thinking. They're going to get demolished. It is going to be a landslide at this point.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think you make a great point. Take the win. I mean it. And crypto is such an obvious win. And you know what? Trump's anti-EV right now. He's been wailing on EVs. I guarantee you that's the next thing. I bet you next week he comes out. Next week, within the next two weeks, here's my prediction. Trump says, you know what? EV is not so bad.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Remember, he's been saying EVs, nobody wants these things. We're subsidizing. I bet you next week or maybe in 30 days, I'm making a prediction here. You bank the prediction. In 30 days, Trump comes out magically in support of EVs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah. And by the way, I'd say in the next... 30 to 60 days, you're going to see 10 incredibly high profile people come out in support of Trump if Biden isn't swapped out. And when I say high profile, I have the inside line on this extremely high profile people, not just Doug Leone, not just David Sachs and Chamath Bhaiyapatiya.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
It is going to be about 10 high profile people who are much higher profile, respectfully, than Chamath and Sachs and Doug Leone. So just wait for it, folks. You cannot be a decelerist in, you know, this world. Let's keep moving. Roaring Kitty, aka Keith Gill, just disclosed a nine figure position in GameStop. Yes, we're back to where this podcast started.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We're talking about GameStop and stonks as crazy as it is. And a E trade is considering suspending his account. This is going to take a little bit of background. I apologize here. I don't mean to deplatforming him. Here we go again. Quick background. You remember the first basically viral moment for this podcast, this AI moment, I remember I was in Tahoe skiing, was the GameStop saga back in 2021.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Thousands of retail investors following this individual, Keith Gill, were posting in this subreddit called WallStreetBets, if you're not familiar, and they created a massive short squeeze, and they sent the stock flying. Robinhood halted the trading. Remember, Vlad came on. That one all went crazy. We covered that all. And then Keith Gill went silent for the past three years on Twitter and Reddit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
He said nothing. Then on May 12th, he posted this meme on X, which has been viewed 28 million times. Now, if you don't know this meme, this is the lean forward meme when you've got a game controller in your hand. It is a way to signal like, hey, we're getting to the boss level. It's going to get exciting. Here's your GameStop chart, folks. You see that first peak?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
That's when we reported on it back in 2021. And here we go again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So GameStock stock tripled at the posting of that meme. Why is this important? Well, he has a huge position. He increased it from 200,000 shares, basically to 5 million, had 120,000 call options. Jamal will comment on all this in a moment. If he exercised all these calls, Gill could own an additional 12 million shares. Here's Gary Gensler, who was on CNBC Wednesday trying to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
like calm the markets down and or try to get control of this craziness. Here's the clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Chamath, you've You've had a lot of comments on the markets and specifically this one over the years. What are your thoughts? Is posting this meme stock manipulation or disclosure?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, he just had a fundraiser like two weeks ago or something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Sacks, I think we have to go to Judge Sacks here. Judge Sacks, what is your verdict? Are memes stock manipulation? Judge Sacks.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Freiburg, you got thoughts on this? Market manipulation or meme, stonk, fun, good times. You're buying GameStop. You're buying AMC. Buyer beware. You're in on the joke. What are your thoughts?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They have $5 billion in revenue selling games?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think this is well said. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying stonks like this, if you're playing poker in a, if you're playing bomb pots, look it up, folks, if you don't know what bomb pots are, and you're going crazy playing bomb pots for eight hours like we did the other week, you're there to gamble. If you are playing bomb bots, this is the bomb bots of the stock market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Have fun, go crazy. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying crypto and the latest token, you know what you're getting into.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh man, this could be deadly for Saks. Saks didn't know about this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Or equities, you know, and they're in the working class, and the working class in the factories got gutted, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We will take the goddamn 818!
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh my God, this is so great. This guy is so good. Sax, do you know about this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Look at Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We should get this guy out to the summit. This guy's got to come to the summit and do a live hand with Mr. Beast. Big shout out. Is he on TikTok or no? I think he only does Insta. Yeah, Tim Nack. I haven't seen Sax listen to Freeburg on this podcast more than he just did. That was incredible. You got Sax's attention. Sax, did you know you could play live online blackjack from your phone?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Did you know this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
This is important information for all of us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
This guy's got great energy. Can he do one live on the show next week?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
That dealer change was so dirty. You saw the dealer change at the last minute. He came up and they changed the dealer.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I've been with you when they've done that. They do that every time with you. When you start running it up, they send in the dealer to ice you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We know the one. The blank cooler. I don't want to say anything, but it's the cooler. We need this guy next week on the pod to do the live bet. And then we each give him 5k. How about that? You guys in?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Nick, I want this guy on the pod next week. We're each putting five dimes in. We got 20K from all in. Let's do it. That would be so much juice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
On the summit, let's take the profits from the summit and do a live hand. We could put like a million bucks each on it. We double up and then we're done with the pod. We don't have to do a summit next year.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Let's do it. Let's let it roll. All right. God, this is so much action for us. I don't know if we can continue, but there's more stories to come. And just buyer beware. I mean, if you're betting on this stuff, I mean, what do we have to tell you? If you're betting on GameStop. No, we don't have to tell you anything. You're an adult. You're an adult.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, here's something really interesting. Put on your seatbelt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
By the way, if you swim in Cape Cod alone in the deep water and the kelp edge, you might get hit by a great white shark.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, I mean, also, I just want to ask one question here. Is there anything with the short selling that could be more disclosure on that, Shamath? Just if the SEC was going to do something. I hear that bubble up once in a while.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Explain synthetic for the audience, because I don't think people know this concept.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Like, literally, you're labeling COVID at this point? I mean... What a joke. Oh, my Lord. So... I guess we have to, at the top of the show, talk about the fundraiser. And I guess this, like, Vinod Khosla came in hot this week and attacked the besties. Let's play the clip.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So in a way, it's almost like a parallel universe where bets are occurring on outcomes in the stock market that are not tied to the stocks in the stock market.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And let's be honest, the people who are betting, I'll use the word betting here, the people who are betting on these things are not looking to get a 7% return or beat the average. I mean, they're looking to double their money in 48 hours. They know what they're getting in for.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They're just walking up to the roulette table and putting 10K on black or red and then clapping and seeing five reds in a row and saying, oh, it's got to be black next. I mean, they're Phil Helmuth-ing this. They don't say that when they lose the money. No, of course not. Yeah, no personal ownership here. Well, here's an interesting thing that's sort of related.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
A little bit of jurisdiction shopping or placing of companies and products continues, and Texas is very hot in this regard. BlackRock and Citadel are backing a new stock exchange to take on the New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ duopoly. So according to the Wall Street Journal, the exchange would be based in Texas and called the Texas Stock Exchange or the TXSE.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They've raised 120 million so far. It seems like a low number. And the general pitch here is the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ have become expensive and they've been increasing their compliance costs. NASDAQ has a new border Diversity target that went into effect at the start of this year, all the DEI stuff. And so this exchange is pitching itself as a CEO friendly and the anti-woke exchange.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So here's the plan timeline, file an SEC registration docs later this year, start facilitating trades next year, host the first new listing in 2026. Interesting, I guess that Citadel and BlackRock are in this group. Because they could bring a lot of business, obviously. And you know some of this other stuff that's been going on with Texas. Texas is now Tesla's corporate headquarters.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They moved it from Palo Alto in California to Texas in 2021. Your thoughts here, Chamath, on moving? Love it. Absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Why do you love it so much, Chamath? Tell them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Freiburg, any thoughts for you about more options?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, I mean, listen, the great irony of this is, as you know, the Democrats were supposed to be the party of the working people and Biden was supposed to be the pinnacle of that, like fighting for unions, fighting for the working person. And so they've just lost that whole thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right. In other news, Apple and OpenAI have reportedly struck an iPhone deal. According to Bloomberg, Apple is going to announce a major partnership with OpenAI at WWDC next week. ChatGPT will be integrated into iOS, which means Apple is outsourcing its AI chatbot, at least at the start.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I guess you could argue it benefits both sides because OpenAI gets access to over a billion phone users and Apple gets a native integration of a top tier platform. language model. Terms are not clear, but most people think this is going to be a short to midterm deal with Apple building out its own AI chatbot in the future, but it's just not ready for primetime right now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Also plans to make Siri AI powered and bring AI features to the Apple ecosystem. You may have heard that Apple is going to try to let Siri dive deeper into apps, i.e. if you're ordering your DoorDash or Uber Eats or an Uber or Lyft or whatever, it might actually be able to execute those things inside of an app.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Interesting line from the article, Apple executives were concerned about reputational damage from a rogue chatbot. Some people within Apple have A philosophical aversion to having a chatbot at all. Very interesting. So thoughts on this SACS? Just getting you back in the loop here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Well, what's really interesting, I think, about this deal, Chamath, is... Apple is having a hard time getting people to upgrade their phones, right? And people have lost faith in the stock. Now you say, hey, we're going to put a language model on here. You can make it a local language model and have it be privacy protected. So that means you need more memory on the phone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You're going to need another chip on the phone. There's a distinct reason to upgrade now. If you had a language model on your phone and Siri was like this super Siri that actually got stuff done, I would upgrade my phone immediately. And right now I skip two or three generations. What are your thoughts on this as a way to maybe reinvigorate the iPhone franchise tomorrow? You buy it or not?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You're in the new form factor. I'm going to take the other side of the cap. I think that because you have this data on your phone, all your iMessages, all your documents, all your photos, videos, music collection. There's a unique set of data on that phone to make your personal LLM that's going to do extraordinary things for you because it's going to watch you and all your behavior on that phone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And man, if I can have a personal LLM that's been watching me order very specific sushi rolls or where I send my Ubers, what type of Ubers I like, what music I play, I feel like that LLM personalized to me.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I know, but I'm talking about the data set. So cool. Don't you agree?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
No, no, you're missing my point. The data of me clicking on the screen, that is not Apple's to collect.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think they'll collect it, put it in there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think it's the opposite. I think the app economy would thrive. You'd have this a great thing where I could tell it, order the same thing I ordered on DoorDash yesterday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Okay. Freeberg, your thoughts on this? Any thoughts? No. Okay. Well, let's get to this. It's time for Science Corner. Temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean are alarmingly high. Freeberg, a couple of weeks ago, we saw this crazy chart on the X about the Atlantic Ocean temperatures pre-hurricane Katrina right about now. And take us through this because it's very disconcerting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Not getting a lot of mainstream media press attention, but certainly- Let me ask you to just confirm a couple of things for me, because we live in a time where people are questioning science and scientists, and we have institutions we don't trust, whether it's
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
three-letter agencies in Washington or scientists and all these papers being written and everything we're finding out and nobody trusts anybody and we're sort of resetting trust.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I wanna just ask you as somebody I trust as a scientist, number one, global warming, temperatures increasing, putting aside what we do about it, temperatures in the ocean, it is undeniable are increasing at a rate that you would describe as concerning. Am I correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, I couldn't hear.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Okay, so this is super clarifying. This should not be controversial to anybody. We have temperature readings in the ocean, and this is concerning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So, you know, putting aside what political party you're on and what you think about gas and oil... I will tell you there's a lot of theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Chamath, your thoughts on Vinod's comments?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So these are complex systems and we should be delicate with them. If you were to give us a prescription here, Friedberg, What's like a basic prescription? Are we just experimenting in a way that is not advisable with, you know, this ecosystem and we should just not run the experiment? I think that might be like a non-political, non-charged way to say it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Like this experiment is a little bit too crazy to run on the one planet Earth we have. Yeah. Which experiment? The experiment of doing things that increase global warming, which would be... You mean living? Well, yeah, I mean, burning fossil fuels, people are just acting in their own economic best interest. Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And if that economic best interest increases temperature so much, do you have a fear, Freeberg, that it will compromise the oceans and damage them to a point that would be extremely concerning? I guess what I'm getting at.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, we understand that. Yeah, sure.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
This is what I'm trying to get at, Freeberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh, yeah. That's what I'm getting at. Are you optimistic or are you pessimistic? Tell us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So, Chamath, I'll pull you into here. So, based on what Freeberg is saying here, yes, these things are occurring, but the technology and the advances we're seeing in but one example, solar, and then some people might bring up nuclear and other ones. We just had Phil Deutsch at my conference this week, give a great talk on this. Solar is just getting so cheap. Batteries are getting so cheap.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Putting batteries in your home, putting solar in, you know, and then putting data centers next to nuclear things. This is all adding up to we can solve this problem. And so you too feel optimistic about this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, everybody, this has been a very productive episode of the number one podcast in the world, the All In Podcast. And good luck tonight, gentlemen, with your fundraiser. I wish you great luck. David Sachs and Chamath Palihapiti, even if it's not my preferred candidate, that's totally fine. We can all differ, and you can have a great, great event tonight. Good luck. I have one thing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Okay, go ahead, Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Oh, it is? We love you, David. We love you, David. We had a nice little birthday cake at the Liquidity Summit this week for him. I had a cake made.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, happy birthday.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
He's going to win all the odd number elections. And there we go. Here we go. I think it's a sign. It's a sign. Listen, I wish... Good luck to you all tonight. I hope that it goes off well for you, for you gentlemen. And listen, I would love to have Trump on the pod, would love to have Biden on the pod, like all things. We just want to have a great conversation here. We keep it respectful.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Sometimes it gets a little chippy, but we love each other and we love you, the audience, for participating in this. Don't fall for the mainstream media's nonsense in trying to divide and conquer. We got important tasks to do and problems to solve in the world. And the way we do that is through great conversations. Hopefully we set a tone an example for everybody else of just how to do that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We still love each other, and sometimes some elbows get flown, and it's all good. Shamath, Sax, good luck tonight. Freeburg, happy birthday. Bye-bye. We'll see you all next time on the number one podcast in the world, the All In Podcast. Tell your friends about it. Love you, boys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, listen, thanks to our friends at 8sleep. Sax and I are both investors, and we both love the Pod4Ultra. It's an incredible company that we both backed, and they are supporting the all-in summit. And if you haven't used the Pod4Ultra or the blah, blah, blah, 8sleep, if you haven't used 8sleep, it's awesome. Go to 8sleep.com slash all-in and use the code all-in.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You'll get some sort of a discount there. Sax, you love the company. You use the product, yeah?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Absolutely. It'll keep you cool. And if you're up all night because you have so much anxiety about Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, like Zach, and you can't sleep and you're doom-scrolling and tweeting all night, maybe this will help you go to bed finally, which I'm watching those tweets. You're staying up too late, Zach. Get some rest here. And use 8sleep to do it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And thanks to our friends over there, 8sleep.com. Code Olin. You get like a free Hyundai or something like that off the price. Really good deal. And we love the company. Okay, last year at the All In Summit, we had a wonderful talk by Jenny Just, and they have a very cool program called Power Poker. They're holding a 2024 summer bootcamp and tournament for women only.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So for the ladies out there, if you want to learn how to play poker, just like the besties and Jenny Just, you can join this four-week training class, get unlimited playing time, you play in a tournament. I'm going to come and play in one of the sessions. But here's the great part. We donated a ticket because we think it's worth encouraging women to join the poker community.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And so there's a $7,500 all-in summit 2024 ticket at stake. There's only 80 spots. Go ahead and join at pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp. pokerpower.com slash summer dash bootcamp. It's going to fill up quick. I know a number of the women who work at my venture firm launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again, 80 spots.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I think they charge a hundred bucks just to make sure you show up and there's an all-in summit ticket there for you. You can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube, youtube.com slash at all-in or just search all-in podcast. and hit the alert bell, and you'll get updates when we post. And we're going to do a party in Vegas, my understanding, when we hit a million subscribers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
So look for that as well. You can follow us on X, x.com slash theallinpod. TikTok is all underscore in underscore talk. Instagram, theallinpod. And on LinkedIn, just search for the All In Podcast. You can follow Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you can sign up for a Substack at chamath.substack.com. I do. Freeberg can be followed at x.com slash Freeberg. And Ohalo is hiring.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com. Okay, everybody follow sacks at x.com slash David sacks and check out sacks is slack killer glue at glue.ai. I'm Jason Calacanis. I am x.com slash Jason. And if you want to see pictures of my bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. We are hiring a researcher. Apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick, working in data and science and being able to do great research, finance, etc. All in podcast.co slash research. It's a full-time job working with us, the besties. And really excited about my investment in Athena.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Go to Athena. Wow. FinaWow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy J-Cal. FinaWow.com. We'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Friedberg, your thoughts on this? You're friends with Vinod, as you mentioned, and you've always said to me and in our personal discussions that the reason you do this pod is because you really want to set an example of how to have great conversations and learn from each other and the tone of what we do here. So your thoughts on this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
MAGA just means make America great again, which I think everybody wants to make America great again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We are just waiting. People really don't want me to be friends with you guys. They want me to end my friendship with you, Chamath. They want me to end my friendship with you, Sax. And these are people who are mutuals, I just want to say. And I want to just tell them all equally to go f*** themselves here. You can bleep out the F word.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Like, I'm not picking my friends based on their political parties or their leanings or who they're supporting for president. The way I look at this, Sax, is at this point, we're all Americans. We're in this together. America survived Trump's presidency. America's going to survive Biden's presidency. The democratic process, it is very messy. Everybody gets to have a voice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And let's just pause for a second here and open up the aperture. Let's be thankful that everybody gets to have a say. Let's keep it from getting personal. Half the humans on this planet Earth do not have a voice. The one thing that's trending in the wrong direction globally is people living in a democracy. It's the one thing not getting better. We have a lot of work to do in this country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We have to respect each other, like we try to do here on this podcast. And we have to talk about the important issues. We all agree the budget's out of control. We all agree the education system sucks. We live in a multipolar world. We have to figure that out. when we should go to war, when we shouldn't, when we need to stay out of things. These are complicated issues.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And name calling in this presidency is not as important as tackling these issues together as Americans. I hope everybody can keep that in mind. So let's debate this. May the best candidate win. And then let's move on and let's solve some problems here. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I know I'm really hurt by this because I tell you personally, it's very hurtful to me because I value our friendships and they're picking on the wrong guy because you're the most loyal guy.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
You can ask me if I do that. Don't tell me what I think, Sax.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
I actually care about people. Do you still care about what they think? The two of you bicker like brothers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
But I know I just have to retrain Sax that he can't tell me what I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yeah, no, because you do that. You put words in my mouth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
No, here's the thing. I respect... All of my friends, and I like having a diversity of opinions. That makes life more interesting for me. And then to tell me I can't be friends with this person, that person, the way I grew up, my dad had a bar. Hells Angels, cops, firefighters, just everybody was allowed to come and hang out at the bar. We're here. We're having a discourse.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Everybody's welcome for a seat at the table.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All of them, the entire rainbow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Absolutely. DEIs over all this nonsense.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Hold on, guys. I got to get into founder mode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Kind of why Common Air is marketing, wouldn't you say, is like to kind of put themselves next to the founder and say, hey, we're the only ones who really care about founders. Everybody else is out to get them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And so there is no panacea here. I mean, sometimes the founder's job is to get in the weeds of something that's broken in a company. For sure. And get down to micromanagement. Other times, you want to step back and let the sales team cook because they're crushing it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Freeberg, you're back in the founder's seat after a brief sojourn as an investor. Any of this ring true to you or obvious? Did you read the essay? Any thoughts on it, the reaction to it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Third year in a row.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
What about Peter Thiel? My guy. Peter Thiel. I haven't interviewed Peter Thiel in a decade. He's amazing.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
It's very different in the place where Paul Graham and I invest, year zero, year one of a company. And Chamath, you alluded to this. In that time period, going from zero to one, from no customers to one customer, it's about really having a team of builders, people who can actually build a product,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
and have what's called product velocity in the industry, the ability to iterate, and then how much time do they spend with customers understanding what those customers' problems are.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And so what we'll see is when the professional managers try to do that, they try to get a product to market and achieve what's called product market fit, and then eventually maybe get product or get market pull, as Andy Ratcliffe defines it, which is the market is seeking your product out because of word of mouth and because they need it, which Airbnb and Uber would fall into now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
The difference between those two moments in time and who's good at it is pretty different to your point, Shamath. So to be able to win both those bets is hard. That's like a parlay in a way. Getting the product market fit requires this sort of relentlessness in innovation and trying things. If you have experience in that vertical, it works against you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So we were looking at a company today in our firm that has a really good idea. And it's people who are from the industry, but they have an okay idea. It's people from the industry, but they can't get the product built because they're senior managers who have 20 years experience in this particular vertical. you would much rather see neophytes come at the vertical.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So if you look at the companies mentioned here, Airbnb, Uber, and then SpaceX and Tesla, you just look at those four companies, they had no experience, zero, in space, in travel, in transportation, hospitality, or any of the success they had, or electric cars.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
But to actually scale those companies, that does require a lot of expertise, a lot of tactics, and people who can focus in a way on very narrow things. And that's sometimes founders who are in that first group, they can't... have that focus on but one tiny little thing, they just get bored with it. And so they have to learn to have really great people recruit really great people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Number one podcast in the world. Here we go. Okay, guys.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And actually, yes, delegate to them to run a department and say, Hey, we the goal of this organization, and you saw this Chamath when you were at Facebook, I think you've told me so many stories about, you know, you're focused on one thing, The signup flow, getting people to add that second or third friend, getting them to fill out their profile.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
There were like key moments you determined would equal success. And then Zuckerberg yourself and that early crew were able to obsess over those. So maybe you could talk about Zuckerberg's ride to getting the first, you know, whatever, 10 million people on the product, but then 10 million to a billion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yeah, I think it's well said. There's another good book before we go on to our next subject. Patrick Lanzioni, I'm sure some of you have read The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, but he kind of got into early this sort of ability to be unliked inside of a company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And I think I highly recommend the book because it really talks about this sort of fear of conflict and avoidance of accountability and inattention to results, which is kind of the underpinnings of, I think, what Paul was getting to with founder mode. Okay, great discussion, everybody. Speaking of founder mode, I mean, this story keeps coming back. Ryan Breslow is back in the news.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
We talked about this company before. Breslow is the founder of a company called Bolt. That's a payment startup. And I have to set the story up in a couple of acts here. Saxon and I have been following it for a while. Bolt was a payment startup. They did one-click checkout products. If you don't know the one-click,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Amazon had a patent for this for a while it came out of it came out of patent protection, everybody sort of jumped on it, their shop pay by Shopify, you probably have experience, you buy something at one store, and then you log into another store with your phone number, it has all your credentials, you've been cookied.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And that basically takes out the friction, and allows you to make a purchase at another vendor without having to put in all your credentials and credit card and everything. So Bolt makes that through an API for different shops online. They generated $27 million in revenue on a $300 million loss last year. They get 2% to 3% commission when they sell something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Anyway, we talked about Bolt back in January 2022 because they had raised at an extraordinary valuation, $355 million at an $11 billion valuation, 366 times revenue sacks. I guess we missed those. Then Breslow made waves on Twitter by calling Stripe and YC the mob bosses of Silicon Valley. He alleged they were kind of acting in cahoots to keep people from using Bolt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And he claimed YC was skewering rankings on Hacker News, all this other stuff. Anyway. It's been two and a half years since we talked about this craziness at Bolt. And Breslow stepped down as CEO after posting that thread. He was accused of overstating Bolt's customers and technical capabilities to investors while raising money. That got probed by the SEC. They didn't take any action.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And then their valuation was slashed 97% to $300 million earlier this year. That's where the story had ended until just last week when an insane story came out that Bolt's interim CEO, not Breslow, had emailed investors informing them out of the blue that they were going to raise $450 million at a $14 billion valuation. This came as a surprise to investors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Let's start the show. You are founder moding. J. Cal, if you founder mode anymore, you're going to get pneumonia. All right, Sax is like the 90s again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
They didn't know this was happening, according to reports, and that this deal would put Breslow back in charge as CEO. It was confusing to all the investors, and they've all started to lawyer up and try to figure this out. Here's what we know so far. Bolt is on pace to generate $28 million in revenue this year, roughly the same as 2021.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And so a $14 billion valuation would be 500 times revenue, Chamath. I'm not sure who would pay for that deal. But this deal is unique in that it's called pay to play. If you don't know that term, it basically means if you're an existing investor, if you don't invest in this round, you're going to lose your existing shares or have them diluted massively.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So some investment bank out of the Seychelles, which is that tiny island in Africa that rich people go on vacation, was supposed to put in 200 million. That firm was called Silver Bear. The other $250 million would come from a firm called The London Farm in marketing capital and credits on a venture investing platform. So anyway, there's a ton of carve-outs here and other stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I'm going to stop there at the notes and just, Sax, this is the craziest story. Sorry it took so long to get here. What are your thoughts on what we're seeing here in this drama and this Zerp valuation?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Hold on, let me find out. That's Founder Mode, baby, let's go. Let's double burn.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Founder authority, founder responsibility.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And what does winning have? Really talented, really driven people in different positions who understand their position.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Are held accountable for their positions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Well, I mean, if Adam Newman had listened to a lot of the smart people he had hired at WeWork, he might not have signed leases that were so high priced and gotten away from the playbook that worked when they started that business, which was find the cheapest real estate, charge the highest price you can for it by making it, you know, a community and really nice.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
As opposed to hiring the class A, getting the class A space and then charging a B price.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I love how he's like my guy, the astronaut, as if like Freeberg and an astronaut have the same life experience, you know?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I have the perfect example of this. When I was running Weblogs Inc., we were going to raise a round of funding. Mark Cuban had given us the first 300, and Mark Andreessen was gonna give us 500K for our blogging company that did Engadget, et cetera. And I had met Jeff Bezos and I told him, I'm in Seattle this week, would love to catch up with you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I wasn't in, I said, I was gonna be in Seattle next week for the whole week, would love to catch up with you. I wasn't planning on being in Seattle. I made that story up just to make it convenient for him. And he said, sure, come by on Tuesday or whatever. I come by on Tuesday, I sit with Jeff Bezos, my partner, Brian Alveai. And the intellectual curiosity he took
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
on taking a part in gadget and blogging as this new medium that was very disruptive at the time. How do you pick the name of the blog? Tell me about the CMS. What is the publishing strategy? How do you hire people? And I would say, oh, you know, we hire people. The best people are the great commentators. So we look at the great comments and then we hire them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And then I watched in Amazon, they started hiring the people writing great reviews for their review team. And I was like, oh, wow, he really is taking notes on this. And to your point, Sax, or maybe Chamath, you made this point. In terms of hiring, one of the great techniques Bezos had is a concept called bar raisers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And a bar raiser in Amazon is somebody you hire for your team who is so good that they raise the bar for the entire team. So when they would say, hey, we're going to add somebody to this team, they're going to be the 10th person, you'd say, are they better at whatever dimensions than the rest of the team? And will they raise the bar for everybody here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And then you think about some managers, they hire somebody who fits in. They hire somebody who doesn't rock the boat. And there are techniques here and very specific ways to attract talent to your startup that will become... You know, do you guys remember part of the reason why YC and Founders Fund and Andreessen took this path was to try to corner Sequoia?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
There was... a moment in time actually where this actually crossed over and you got to witness it, which was when Larry and Sergey were taking Google public. And before that, they said, you know, I don't know if the markets will let these two PhDs as smart as they are, as driven as they are with such a great product. I don't know if they're going to buy the stock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Can we get an adult in the room who's done this before? And they found Eric Schmidt, who had run Novell. And they brought him in as this, you know, third part of the triangle. And then eventually he wound up leaving, et cetera. What were your thoughts on Silicon Valley in that transition time and Eric Schmidt's role at Google?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Back at Stanford.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You left out the number one host on the internet and broadcast or news on YouTube. Megyn Kelly will be joining us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
This is the funniest cold opening we've ever done. Sorry. Oh, my God. I got Belgian waffle mix everywhere. It's right here, Jacob. You got a bunch of founder mode right there.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Why should she be any different?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
All right, here we go. A panel of California judges has ruled that Section 230 does not protect TikTok's algorithm in the case of the death, tragically, of a 10-year-old girl. We've talked about Section 230 and legislation to protect algorithms or to make algorithms more editorial.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
We'll get to that in a second, but let me just cue up the story and then we'll play a clip from episode 99 of All In podcast. In late 2021, a 10-year-old Pennsylvania girl accidentally killed herself while participating in a blackout challenge she saw on TikTok. That is a challenge that encourages viewers to choke themselves with objects like belts until they pass out.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Oh, I can't wait for this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
According to Bloomberg, this challenge has been linked with the deaths of 15 young people. Oh, my God. Yeah, this is terrible.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
What?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
The child's mother sued TikTok, arguing that their algorithm served blackout challenge videos to her child, thus making them responsible. In the past, algorithmic decisions, as we've talked about here, were protected under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Just to break this down very simply, if you're Section 230, that grants internet platforms featuring user-generated content immunity from being sued over content published by those users on their platform. So YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, you know, a blogging platform, etc.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So because of 230, you're technically not supposed to be able to go after something like TikTok because a random user posted crazy videos like this. But an appeals court, Chamath, has reversed that ruling with the judge arguing that TikTok's algorithm represents a unique, quote unquote, expressive product, which communicates to users through a curated stream of videos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
The judge claims TikTok's algorithms reflect editorial judgment. So Here's the interesting legal detail. The new ruling specifically cites the Supreme Court's recent decision, Moody v. Net Choice, in which the court ruled unanimously to vacate that Florida law we talked about here that banned tech companies from deplatforming political officials.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So that was viewed as a big win for speech protection sacks. and moderation rights in big tech. But this is all super ironic because the same ruling that affirmed big tech's First Amendment protections in content moderation may also have nullified the Section 230 immunity. So let's play this quick clip here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Chamath, this is a discussion you and I had about should algorithms be part of Section 230 back in 2022?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You're talking about the front page editor of the New York Times.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
There's such an easy way to do this. If you're TikTok, if you're YouTube, if you want section 230, if you want to have common carrier and not be responsible for what's there, when a user signs up, it should give them the option. Would you like to turn on an algorithm? Here are a series of algorithms which you could turn on. You could bring your own algorithm.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You could write your own algorithm with a bunch of sliders. Or here are ones that other users and services provide like an app store. So, Chamath, that was your take on it. And here we are. What are your thoughts on Section 230 and algorithms today? Should, if you use an algorithm, should that nullify, void your Section 230 protection?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yes, correct. Sax, your thoughts here on balancing 230 with the fact that I think we all agree that these algorithms are the new modern day editors.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I have a third view, and I'll bring you in on this discussion here, Friedberg, is that these algorithms have become so powerful, they are even better than editors at catering to users' needs because they're obviously one-to-one casting, right? And so this is a perfect opportunity not to get rid of 230, but to evolve it. And as I said in that previous clip,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You know, there is a big issue as to who's making these algorithms in the case of TikTok, the Chinese government's influence. And, you know, what is their intention? And are they being thoughtful about it? Because they are powerful. And what responsibility do they take? Is the responsibility stomping at increasing the session?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Because if you want to increase a session, all you have to do is keep showing more rage and getting people more upset. And that leads to division in society and all kinds of weird things that can occur. And so empowering users and having more transparency would be a great way for the government, for individuals who are frustrated with this, and the platforms to find some common ground and involve.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
What do you think of this possibility, Friedberg, of maybe you come to YouTube and instead of shutting down 230 and causing chaos, to your point, Sax, which I agree with that, it would cause chaos and more censoring. just saying to people, hey, welcome to YouTube. Here are three ways you can view your content by default.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You can pick our algorithm, you can pick an education-leaning algorithm, you can pick a music-leaning algorithm, or you could have no algorithm at all and you'll just be faced with a directory. What do you think of that as maybe a middle ground here?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
That could be a better answer, too. I think based on some of our discussions, you know, yeah, having kids not have these phones at school and putting them into the pouches and no social media until you're 16 or 17, because one of the other things that's happening here is these algorithms are so good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
that they are now causing a dopamine deficiency in children and it's causing depression because you can get desensitized and every time you swipe up, you get a dopamine hit and then your brain gets reset and you have less ability to get joy from having dinner with your family or playing cards with your friends or doing any other things. And that's what doom scrolling does.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
That's why we lost you, Sax, to the poker game. You're too busy doom scrolling and you got addicted to it and you don't come to poker anymore. But this is what we need to do. As a society, these phones are destroying everybody's lives. They're killing friendships. They're killing these poor kids who are sitting there like zombies. The algorithm is just too good.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
We have now the snake has eaten its tail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You know what? I'm going to do it with you. We're going to go on a little social media diet, you and I. From now on, we're going to go for sushi, maybe some sky. You've been acting insane.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You need a detox.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yes. Since you want to go into Russia, here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And as predicted. We're 50 days before the election, and who shows up? Putin. This is the greatest story ever. For those of you listening, Sax just rolled his eyes. It's so funny. This is just great. Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Here we are. And by the way, there's breaking news. More Russia stuff has dropped while we're on the pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Let's get to the story here, comrade.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Well, we're going to do it anyway. So here we go. The DOJ discharged two Russian media operatives with infiltrating podcasts. Yes, to push pro-Kremlin talking points. This was a wild drop on Wednesday, Chamath. The DOJ charged two Russian media operatives as part of an alleged, wait for it, propaganda and misinformation scheme.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
According to the charges, these two employees of the state-run Russia Today outlet, RT, funneled $10 million into a Tennessee-based media company to influence public opinion and sow social divisions. The wire transfers happened between October of last year And as recently as last month, this included placing blame on Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine for its conflict with Russia. Interesting.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
You're the most lukewarm ad read I've ever heard.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Both Russians are charged with conspiracy to violate the Foreign Agents Registration Act and conspiracy to commit money laundering. They're looking at 20 years in jail. The indictment did not mention the company by name, but people quickly figured out who it was because of their location. The company is called Tenant Media, founded in 2023 by Lauren Chen, a conservative commentator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And their personalities included Tim Pool, Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, and Lauren Southern. These are right-leaning podcasters. In the last year, Tenant has posted 2,000 videos, which collectively had 16 million YouTube views, according to the DOJ charges. Looks like the Russian operatives were coordinating with the founders.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And Google Cloud is giving an amazing offer to everybody who comes to the summit. Wait till you hear the sacks. $350,000 for AI startups. Credit. And that's real money that you would have spent otherwise. So a great gift from our friends at Google Cloud.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Okay. And just to be clear. I mean, do we all agree with that or not? I mean, I agree. It was a great move to not have advertising. Sure. Because there's zero pressure from anybody calling us saying we're going to pull our ad spots and also makes the pod easy to listen to. And none of us need the money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
These personalities, Tim Pool, Benny Johnson, Dave Ruman, Lauren Southern have, I think most of them have come out and said they didn't know. The indictment says that they didn't know these podcasters. And the indictment also says they were paid huge sums of money, upwards of $100,000 per episode to do this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And it's unclear what they were asked to do in the indictment, but there are some pressure techniques to produce tweets around certain things that the Russians wanted propagated.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
They said in the indictment that they wanted more traffic because they weren't hitting their traffic numbers and to please amplify different videos and tweets. that were pro-Russian. So that's in the indictment. So I guess the question then, Sachs, for you is- You're totally mischaracterizing this. What was mischaracterized? I would never mischaracterize this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And I literally would never, I have no horse in the race here. There's no reason for me to mischaracterize it. So what am I getting wrong?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
That's not true. You can ask me. I think Russia, I've told this to you many times, Russia's sole goal is to sow division between people in this country. I refuse to allow it to do so on this podcast or between you and I. The Russians just want to produce chaos. They do it on all sides. They get Green Party people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I have said since the beginning that the KGB's technique in America is to sow division. That's their sole goal. They don't care who wins. They just want us to not pay attention to what they're doing in Ukraine or what's happening in Russia.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yeah, I mean, I think the sowing... Cernovich's point that they just want to sow division and cause chaos is the key point. I don't think that Putin cares who wins. I think he just wants chaos here and he wants distraction. So whether he flips, he wants Kamala, he wants Hillary, he wants Trump. I think he just wants chaos. And that's what the KGB does.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
That's what the KGB has always done, is try to get people to not believe reality. And that is their playbook for all history. They want to demoralize a population to not believe in their institutions, to not believe facts. And if... It seems like it's working pretty well here in the United States.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
No, no. What happened with Kamala? I'm not aware. Was there an op on the left?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Oh, yeah. The four people are super anti-Kamala.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
No, I never said. No, no. I have to correct that. I've never said Trump was compromised. I said the people around him were compromised because they kept taking meetings and money from the Russians. And this is the Russian playbook. No, I believe you never believed in Russiagate putting a words aside and claims like this. And you're telling me what I think. You can ask me what I think.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And I can tell you very clearly, again, that I think their plan is to find simple-minded people to give them money and to cause chaos and division in our country. I don't think that they got to Trump. I think they got to almost everybody around him. And if you look at those people who show up at Putin dinners and you look at who takes money, It's all around Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And the Russians are experts at this. And they did it to the Green Party. They just sprinkle money around people to cause this type of chaos. That's the goal. How many times do I got to say this to you clearly? I don't have a horse in this race. I think all Americans, I'll say it again so that you can understand it and the audience can understand my position very clearly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Their goal is to get us to fight with each other so we don't look at their invasion of Ukraine or what's happening with the suffering of the Russian people. And we as Americans should not be partisan on this issue.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
We as Americans should all come together, you, Sax, me, and everybody else, and say, we don't want the Russians interfering in our elections or causing division, and we're not going to make this political.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yeah, and I agree that Trump was not compromised by the Russians, just the people around him. And to recap for people, since maybe they don't remember, Michael Flynn, who was the national security advisor, pled guilty to lying to the FBI in 2017 about his contacts with the Russians. Paul Manafort, who was the campaign chairman for Trump,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
had ties to pro-Russian figures in the Ukraine and shared polling data with the Russian associates during the campaign. He was convicted of tax and bank fraud in 2018, later pardoned by Trump, like Michael Flynn was pardoned. Rick Gates, who was the decorated deputy chairman, he worked closely with Paul Manafort. He pled guilty to conspiracy and lying to investigators.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
George Papadopoulos, I won't bring up because he was kind of a joke. And then Roger Stone was investigated for all his contacts With WikiLeaks, he was convicted of obstruction, lying to Congress, and witness tampering in 2019. So we have four of these folks being convicted. That's four people convicted.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I'm just thinking if it's sold out, these aren't worth $7,500 each. What's it worth if you can't get in? I'm sure you'd find that out pretty quickly.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
My maintaining is, once again, fourth time, is that the Russians are trying to cause division in America and we shouldn't all fall for it. Hey, Friedberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
That's why we should be united. Let's be united. Friedberg, you've got some passionate thoughts on Kamala Harris pivoting a little bit around her economic policies in the last week or two. Let's wrap with that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I did give one away for free.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
No, I'm going to give them to my brother, Josh. If you want to get into the summit for 10K in cash, Josh will be at the loading dock.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
It's also... I think you've made this point, Shamath, as well, which is when you're running for the primaries, and I think Dean Phillips, when he was on the program, talked about this, you've got one agenda, and that tends to be a bit extreme because you're trying to get those extreme people in primaries to come out. Then when you get to the general election, you kind of come towards the middle.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And we said on this very podcast, and I gave a couple of disclaimers as the moderator here, hey, we don't know these are communist policies because A, she's not talking to anybody, B, she hasn't released any. So maybe, you know, she's taking feedback.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Need one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I have some inside information on this, which is there are people in our circles who are sitting with her saying these things are crazy and maybe pointing to our podcast and other reactions online. And maybe we should really think, what do you want to do? potentially, Madam President.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Down at the Mongolian barbecue joint in Westwood. Listen, if you... If you've ever been to Madison Square Garden, you just hold up the number one and somebody will come talk to you. Somebody will come talk to you. All right. We've gotten through all the great housekeeping. And it's time to talk about founder mode. Founder mode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
When you're president, if you do win, and I think she's starting to think from first principles, hey, what is actually good for the countries? That would be a very honest way of looking at this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
No, no, I'm talking about in her policies. You can make whatever digs you want to her style, and that's valid. You can make whatever digs you want to Trump's style. What I'm talking about is she got thrown— You said she's thinking from first principles. Yeah, well, from her first principles as to what— Her writers are giving her new talking points.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Okay, listen, can you stop with the personal attacks on people and just maybe have an intelligent— It's not a personal attack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Let me finish my thought, and then you can deride her style.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
OK, let me finish my point and then you can talk about substance or style. I think what happened here is she was put into the position as president and had to, in a very short period of time, come up with what her positions would be, because everybody knows when you're the vice president, your positions are what the president thinks. We've made that point about J.D.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Vance, that his position on wanting a national abortion ban has nothing to do with Trump's and Trump's wins in that situation. So here we are. I think it's a similar situation. Biden might have been captured and wanted to do this crazy wealth tax and this seizure of people's assets, whereas maybe she actually is much more moderate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And that's what people around her have always said is that she's more moderate and that she's coming to actually form her own platform. And she just needed time to do that. I'm giving what I'm hearing from the left. This isn't necessarily my position, Sax. This is what I'm hearing from the people around Kamala Harris.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Okay, here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
On Sunday, the Y Combinator founder, Paul Graham, published an essay titled Founder Mode. It was based on a talk that Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky gave to a group of YC founders last week. where he said, hey, the advice I got on running a large company was to hire good people and give them room to do their jobs. He says he took that advice and the results were a disaster.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
How would you say Trump's position on abortion relates to that? You know, don't people adapt their position based on winning? I mean, I think he's done a masterclass in changing his position.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Well, no, I think it's a great example of a politician moving to the center on the issue. He just said this week that he wants more than six weeks. Right. And so he's moving towards that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Well, the reason I talk about it is because there's so many states, including the one I'm living in where women can't get an abortion.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So, I mean, I think women feel differently about it than, you know, you brushing it aside. They feel that Trump took away their right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Yeah, no, no. I'm just saying the truth for women that I talk to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
The evangelicals are really upset about him in their perception, changing his mind, and women... Their view of it is he took away their right in the states where, like the one I live in, you can't get an abortion. Okay, everybody, this has been an amazing episode of the All In podcast. We got to business up front, great discussion, politics that got super toxic at the end.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
It's the mullet that you love, business, and then political parties at the back. Four. the Sultan of Science, who did an amazing job setting up all these amazing speakers and doing all the work on the all-in summit taking place next week. We thank you for your efforts. Sultan of Science, David Friedberg. You excited?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I love it. It's a team sport. That's right. For the chairman dictator, look at that. Look at that silver fox. Look at him with that great hair. When is it going to stop? Are you going to cut it for the summit or are you just... Wow. He's going big. And the architect. Welcome to 48. Welcome to 48. The architect, David Sachs, my bestie. Welcome to 48. I'll see you on Twitter. Welcome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I'll see you on Twitter, Sachs.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
I think, yeah. Yes. And you should do another 30 tweets a day about you, Craig. We'll see you all next time, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So he studied how Steve Jobs ran Apple. And according to PG, Paul Graham, that is, a bunch of very successful founders in the audience, kind of nodded their head and said, Hey, that is similar to my experience. PG defines the world now in two ways, two philosophies for running a company manager mode versus founder mode in manager mode.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And now the plugs. You can subscribe to this show on YouTube. Yes, watch all the videos. Our YouTube channel has passed 500,000 subscribers. Shout out to Donnie from Queens. Follow the show, x.com slash the all in pod. TikTok, the all in pod. Instagram, the all in pod. LinkedIn, search for all in podcast. And to follow Chamath, he's x.com slash Chamath. Sign up for his weekly email.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
what I read this week, at chamath.substack.com and sign up for a developer account at console.grok.com and see what all the excitement is about. Follow Sacks at x.com slash davidsacks and sign up for Glue at glue.ai. Follow Friedberg, x.com slash friedberg. And Ohalo is hiring. Click on the careers page at ohalogenetics.com I am the world's greatest moderator, Jason Calacanis.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
If you are a founder and you want to come to my accelerators and my programs, founder.university, launch.close.apply to apply for funding from your boy, JCal, for your startup. And check out athenowow.com. This is the company I am most excited about at the moment. athenowow.com to get a virtual assistant for about $3,000 a month. I have two of them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Thanks for tuning in to the world's number one podcast. You can help by telling just two friends. That's all I ask. Forward. this podcast to two friends and say, this is the world's greatest podcast. You got to check it out. It'll make you smarter and make you laugh, laugh while learning. We'll see you all next time. Bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
That's just the conventional way of doing this, what you teach in business school, you hire good people, you give them room to do their jobs. You tell your direct reports what to do, they figure it out, you don't micromanage. Pichi says, he doesn't give too many specifics about Founder Mode. He kind of says, hey, we've got to figure out what this thing is.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
The founder mode, baby. Let's go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
So in some ways, this blog post to Moth was a way of starting the conversation. But he said... Things like less delegation and more hands-on. And if you haven't heard of it, skip level meetings. This is where the CEO will meet not with their manager or direct report, but maybe a group of people who report into that manager without the manager in the room.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
It's a notable and well-known management technique to kind of get information to the CEO a little bit faster. And what do you think? Chamathas got a lot of attention on a Sunday. Did you have any takeaways from it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
All right, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Welcome back to the number one podcast in the world. With me again, the chairman dictator, Chamath Palihapitiya. How you doing, buddy? Have you acclimated? Now you're 15 days back on American soil. How are you adjusting?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Sacks, did you read the piece? You clearly saw all the memes and, you know, I guess, kudos for the piece on X this past weekend. What are your thoughts on it, generally speaking? Anything that you took from it that was notable, or is this just some obvious stuff?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Oh, I know, the big 50th's coming. I've already called dibs on chairing your 50th, so we will be certainly getting arrested in 24 months. Save up your bail money, boys. Friedberg, you look... Like, you have had a record number of panic attacks in the last 48 hours. How is summit planning going? Are you okay, buddy? You took this responsibility on. Are you okay?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
And we've seen in some of the big company sacks that they've cut out middle management because so much of the work was just being playing telephone and handing it to the next person that when you took out that swath of people at Facebook or Google or Microsoft, the company seemed to work better because you're taking out a layer of overpaid people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
"Founder Mode," DOJ alleges Russian podcast op, Kamala flips proposals, Tech loses Section 230?
Is there something wrong with that model? You're kind of looking at it, and I'm kind of hearing a little bit of a tone there. Maybe I'm reading into it. That doesn't match reality.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
When she joined Google in 2001, it had $20 million in revenue. They were private. And when she left in 2008, they had $22 billion in revenue. When she joined Facebook in 2008, it was at $270 million in revenue. When she left, it was at $117 billion. Market caps of those two companies have grown $100 billion and $950 billion during her tenures.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And today, both are worth over $3 trillion combined and are the number four and number seven market cap companies in the world. However, to our crew, she will always be Bestie Dave Goldberg's dream girl, as he once described it to me. He told me he pursued her relentlessly until she finally gave in, dated, and then married him and started a beautiful family together.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Dave Goldberg passed away nine years ago this week in 2015. in an alternate universe on a different timeline goldie would have been one of the four people on this panel because he was the most wise funny super mensch of the entire 10 person core poker group the original poker group in fact he was twice the man of any of us which given the low benchmark we've set isn't that difficult
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We can get at least three shows worth of wisdom from our current guest, but that's not why she's joining us today. She made a documentary, and we're here to talk about that. And we'll have some time for business talk at the end, which is going to be a very hard pivot given the nature of the doc. The doc she co-produced is called Screams Before Silence. I watched it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
On the flight back from New York, I had to take three breaks, and it took a lot of tissues, if I'm being honest. It is one of the most difficult hours of viewing I've ever had in my life. It is focused on the sexual violence committed by Hamas during and after the October 7th attacks, and which, tragically, in all likelihood continues today with the hostages who are still somewhere in Gaza.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, I mean, you said it earlier, Cheryl, this tolerance for ambiguity, this ability, the cognitive dissonance to be able to hold in your head that the people of Gaza are suffering. Perhaps, I guess the other side would say, you know, they would start down this whataboutism. It's not my position, but what about what Netanyahu is doing? What about aid to people suffering in Gaza?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
You've addressed that. You don't believe anybody should suffer. But I just want to talk a little bit about this conspiracy theory that it didn't happen. Also in the documentary, the savagery You chose not to show the graphic photos that you saw and that you're clearly traumatized by. And a lot of us New Yorkers had a similar experience with 9-11 and watching that up close.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is what terrorists do. Terrorists do these things to cause massive trauma, to make it impossible to deescalate. That is the sadism, that is the pure evil of this brand of terrorism. is to make it impossible for the good people of the world to unwind or deescalate. And I think part of the process is accepting what happened and coming to some truth.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And the truth can be there are people dying unnecessarily in Gaza. There are people starving in Gaza. There are children who are not getting food and water. All of those can be true. And this horrific sexual sadism and violence that occurred is also true. And that was awesome.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
No, I mean, I'm trying to make sense of this. And I come to it with humility. This podcast hits certain notes with people and, oh, how can people in Silicon Valley or whatever discuss these topics? Listen, we're all discussing them. We're all trying to make sense of a very confusing world. But you made two choices in the documentary. One was to leave yourself out of it largely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Your role in the documentary is, you know, to hug people and to cry alongside them and to witness this stuff. You talked for, I think, 90 seconds in the whole documentary. I think this was an important decision you made. And then you made a decision, which I'm not sure if I agree with, which is to not show the photos.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I am of the belief that people should see what happened on 9-11 as a New Yorker who witnessed it and my brothers in the fire department. And I had PTSD from it. I think people have to see these things. You chose not to out of respect for the family. You should put a note at the end. Explain this choice because I know you must have struggled with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And there are photos that you've seen of women with their breasts cut off. I don't want to say these things. I know it's very traumatic. But I believe people have to understand what's in these photos that you saw.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
nails in women's private parts breasts that have been cut off this is undeniable if you want to deny the rapes happened or whatever you cannot deny the photos that you saw he chose not to put them in i understand that decision respect for the family is there not a take us into that decision because maybe there's a maybe you need to
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And the woman who chose to do the interview with you, she's so brave. She said, I had to do this because I wanted to combat the denialism. And I don't know who the gray zone is. And I don't know why people are giving it a ton of attention, but they are considered, the first line of the Wikipedia page is it's a fringe website. So just leave it at that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I don't know if it is or if it isn't, but that's the first line of the Wikipedia page. Is there not a case to be made for making a second version of the documentary that shows exactly these things so people can stop denying it? Because then you would have to come to the place that the people who are one-sided created fake images.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Is that what we're getting to in this conspiracy-filled world, that the dozens of people you interviewed are part of a grand conspiracy and the photos are doctored? So just talk about that decision. You must have had an important meeting about that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
The documentary also takes on claims in our polluted, journalistic, conspiracy-filled media landscape that claim none of this happens. She traveled to Israel to conduct interviews for it, and outside of comforting the victim, she spends less than 90 seconds speaking in it herself. The stories, of course, speak for themselves.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Now, this isn't a disclaimer, but some context about this podcast for those of you who are here for the first time might be helpful. We realize we're wading into a conflict that is thousands of years old, and it's shrouded in pain and suffering with a foundation on the most deeply held religious beliefs humanity has ever formed. When we do podcasts like this and have guests
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We'll be championed by one side and derided by the other. But as you know, we don't shy away from the hard discussions on this podcast. We go all in on them. Equal time will always be given, and we welcome all sides on these difficult discussions. It goes without saying that we're not here to be your expert or final authority.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, they said themselves, Chamath, it was a platform for whatever your grievance was. That was their stated mission, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We're here to have a first principle discussion and to personally learn alongside each other in good faith. In good faith. This is a really important concept because it's hard to have these discussions in good faith today. So with that, a welcome to the All In podcast, our bestie, Sheryl Sandberg.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
But yeah, that's exactly where I wanted to go with the journal, which is if you steal a man, if you look at their perspective, and you look at the beauty of feminism and femininity, and you wrote a book, Lean In, and you are an expert on this, and having compassion for people who are suffering is absolutely beautiful.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is the best of humanity, and I think it's the best of femininity and women, is that they have this incredible gift of empathy that, as men, maybe we are so far behind. And so it does not surprise me that women lead these organizations when they see suffering.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And if you see children suffering, women are in a unique position in their life experience to understand the value of children, of family, and of suffering. And You know, I can understand an impressionable young person seeing the videos coming out of Gaza of a baby dying in a bombing and collateral damage and being devastated and saying, you know what, I have to fight for these poor children.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is completely noble in their mind. In fact, it might be noble, I mean, to fight for peace. And so... you know, I can understand their positions, and I don't actually disagree with them. But then you start looking at the reality of getting the hostages back. And if this was an American situation, and we actually have a corollary, 9-11, we didn't go to Afghanistan to get hostages.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We went there to get retribution. So if America went there to eliminate this threat. And we also took out another country just for good measure that wasn't even involved in it. You know, it's such a complex issue and we're in the fog of war. I think everybody pausing for a second here and just remember how confusing it was after 9-11, how confusing it was.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And we had to figure out, wait a second, these were Saudis. These were this radical group, the splinter group. It takes a while to figure out what's going on here. And I do think on these campuses, they should allow them to protest, but there's outside agitators.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
That seems to me to be completely unacceptable, to have 40, 50, six-year-old lifetime agitators on these campuses allow these kids to protest, but to chase Jewish kids around the campus and then surround them and threaten them in 2024? I mean, I can't understand what's happening and how...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
How could an administration, Cheryl, allow students to threaten other students and not immediately snap a snap decision?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It is a decision. Absolutely expelled. If a set of Jewish students surrounded a Palestinian student, an Islamic student, a Muslim, and chanted at them about what happened to October 7th and made them feel threatened, expel them as well. There's just some basic...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
basic rules of the game they're not enforcing it's absolutely infuriating but i just want to make sure i steal them that other side and you did you know i think very eloquently say you also agree with the suffering in palestine needs to end i know we're out of time can i say one thing i really want to say ten things cheryl as much as you like you have time i really want to thank you all for this because two things happened in the last hour with you
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
You know, at the end of the day, Chamath, we're family and you're friends.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I think about Dave frequently. And I just think at the end of your life, what you have, is but a collection of memories. And the memories we have with Dave, the laughter, the joy, the- Fake Chamath. Fake Chamath, yeah. His wit, his insights, you know, we would be sitting at that poker table and it was like, we're all like 15, 16 year olds and we got this big brother who's 20
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And we'd be bickering and laughing, whatever. He'd come in and say, hey, guys, how about this and this? So Chamath and I would be jawing at each other. He'd say, hey, guys, let's calm it down a little bit. Thank you guys. And let's have a good time, whatever.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We didn't get to talk about anything business. Come to the summit. I beg you to come back to the, either come to the summit and be one. Are you one or short in video? We just need to know. It's a hard pivot to this. It's true.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
If you were to change any paragraph of the Lean In book, what would you do? We'll save all this for this time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Thank you very much. Wow. I need to take a deep breath here, Chamath Freeberg. This was super emotional for me. I didn't know if I could do it, I'll be honest. I have so many emotions, Chamath, about Dave. I have so many feelings about this situation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Absolutely, absolutely.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, trust me, there's a lot of people who would love to have the fake show mouth handled.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I mean, it's well said, Chamath. And, you know, the response, I can tell you to, you know, this, this episode, and the response I got for just tweeting, you know, hey, this is important documentary to watch is, you know, the what about it, about ism, the other side, and documenting what's happening in Gaza.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
And, you know, we have this search for truth right now, which is very difficult, because institutions have a lot of self-inflicted wounds we live in an age of conspiracy theory you know and and there are reports of crisis actors you know in gaza creating fake deaths and fake videos so you know now you have one side saying oh
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
the people of Palestine or Hamas are, the numbers aren't correct of the number of people died. The suffering's not correct. These images aren't correct. The fog of war is gonna be thick for a while here, folks. And it's gonna take us a while. And Shabbat's exactly right. You gotta document this. You gotta get to some ground truth. You gotta get to some common facts
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
So we can all objectively look at those common facts. And, you know, listen, it's a shame David Sachs couldn't make it today, but it's really missed here because, you know, we have that same thing with the war in Ukraine. And it's very hard for... Us in this current media landscape where we're quoting from news sources and anonymous Twitter accounts, fake videos, it's going to get worse with AI.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It's going to be harder and harder to find the truth. And this is where your own personal morality, ethics, and I'm not sure who brought this up during our talk because I'm emotionally spent. I got to be honest. It's a little hard for me to collect myself here. But man, you have to have some basic moral principles here. children, women, rape, sexual assault, we all can agree on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
You said this the week after October 7th, Freeberg, you had a very powerful moment on the show, that you don't want to have to decide between October 7th being horrific and children dying in Gaza being horrific. And you don't want to have to be painted with one side or the other. You want to believe as a moral person that all suffering needs to end. And we collectively, as a species,
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
in 2024 on this planet can work together to just agree that certain things should never happen and to try to resolve these horrible conflicts. I'm so spent right now. And it was just very difficult for me to watch that documentary. I don't know where we go from here, gentlemen. I'm fine ending the show here or taking a 10-minute break and then maybe doing one or two new stories.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
All right, everybody. Welcome back to the program. Yep. It's not easy to do a pivot here, but we collected ourselves, took a deep breath, and you've all been asking for a science corner. And so there's a really important story that Freebird has been educating us about on the group chat. There's a startup that just open sourced an AI gene editor. Yes, you heard that right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Open source gene editor powered by AI. It's called Profluent Bio. Am I correct? Profluent Bio.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Great.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I think we have mentioned it. It would be good as a primer for you to just explain from first principles what is CRISPR, why it's important, and then get into this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
So let's step back for a second for a break. Explain what CRISPR is to somebody who's heard the term but doesn't actually know in your unique ability to explain science. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Be able to- Yeah, this is happening, I guess, in the psychedelic space with psilocybin, MDMA, and some of those.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
No, no, I'm just saying there are drug companies now that are realizing the efficacy at Johns Hopkins, Stanford, where they're doing these. And then they're trying to figure out how do we take something that's occurring naturally, psilocybin in mushrooms, referred to colloquially as magic mushrooms. And then how do we bear hug this so that we can patent it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
How can we own the implementation of it, as you're saying? And so it's fascinating to me taking nature and trying to patent nature. Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Yeah. You know, we might know somebody at Twitter who can reset the password.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Okay, two questions for my baby brother with the with the science brain. Number one, the LLMs here. How? Maybe you speak to the efficacy of LLMs when applied to this vertical? because it's a constrained data set, I believe, so it feels to me analogous to code, whereas human language, images, videos, building an LLM around them, you have a pretty large corpus.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It seems to me code is constrained, a video game is constrained, and of course... maybe maybe gene editing is constrained. I'll let you answer that and the LLM component here. And then maybe you could speak to what this will do to the startup community, being able to leverage this open source tool. Have startups started to pop up around this yet?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Is there a.org.com kind of equivalent here where you have WordPress.org, open source version of WordPress, WordPress.com, the hosted paid version? And are we going to see a bunch of.com versions of this and different startups? Take it whichever way you like the two questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Okay, so it's a blocker for humanity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Oh, of course, yeah. It was a huge blocker, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Well, yeah, and then you could get rug pulled, right? They could change their mind.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
ActiveX, Microsoft did ActiveX to try to be a blocker and own the open source web community.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Tell me about the LLM side here, the large language model being built around this data. What's the efficacy of that going to be like? And is my analogy of a constrained data set, meaning it will be able to perform at a higher level like we see with code and then co-pilots for code?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Oh, my God.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Okay. Amazing job. If you missed any of those graphics, you're listening to the podcast, go to YouTube and search for All In Podcast if you want to see those graphics. All right, gentlemen, this has been another amazing episode of the All In Podcast for your Sultan of Science, David Freberg, the Chairman Dictator, and David Sachs, who couldn't make it today. I am the world's greatest moderator.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Rest in power. Dave Goldberg. Goldie. We love you. We miss you. And we'll see you all next time on the All In Podcast. Love you, boys. All the best to you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Field day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Bye-bye. We'll let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Rain Man, David Sack. And instead, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Wesley. I'm the queen of...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We need to get merchandise.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
I mean, it's one of the great things about... The great challenge, I remember... workshopping some tweets here with Dave, with Goldie. And the big laugh we would have, and David Lee from the Warriors was involved in this. I mean, we just had like a whole group who lived to write these tweets. And sometimes Chamath's tweets were so insane and deranged that we couldn't top them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
So we tried to come up like this one from fake Chamath. Pinterest is the new hot company. This is a great one. Pinterest is a new hot company in the Valley. I don't understand why a site for girls with catches for 300 million.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Of all the people who've suffered spending time with Chamath, you're at the top of that list.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Here's a great one from October 29th, 2011. A lot of demand for me to appear in commercials like others, but I am holding out for Cartier. Mercedes is beneath me. I mean, this predated all Laura Piana. Laura Piana, yeah. Freeboy, you got this next one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Who was ahead of the time on Laura Piana at that time? Very good. I mean, it's just incredible. People think the Laura Piana thing is like recent history. It was 12 years ago.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
It's going to get pretty popular and I will just say As much as Dave loved being fake Chamath, it's like half the amount Chamath loves being at Chamath.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Oh my God, I haven't cried and laughed so hard in five minutes as I did just now. I mean, actually, in some ways, Cheryl... You're our fifth bestie as well. You're always welcome to come on the pod. And I just also for a little bit of housekeeping here, when guests come on this podcast, we don't pre-vet questions.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
No questions are off limits and nobody gets to strike or do anything nonsensical with the product. Everybody comes here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
We're not journalists.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Right. Which means no gotcha journalism. Although I'll ask a tough question once in a while that. may get me in a little bit of trouble. But David Freberg, you set this all up. And I know you and Cheryl have been talking about these important issues. And of course, we're going to have all sides on. So you don't have to email me and say, what about this side? What about that side?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
All sides are welcome to come on the pod. But Freberg, why don't you kick us off here? We're going to talk about this important film and a lot of the debates going on about this horrific attack on October 7th and then what's going on in Gaza today.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
But then we also are going to try to make that hard pivot to business and get some of Cheryl's insights on what's happening in the world today of business. So, Freeberg, why don't you kick us off?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Rain Man, David Sasson. All right, welcome back to the program, everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
One of the guests we've always dreamed about having on the show is considered one of the great business operators of all time in Silicon Valley. For the past 20 years, Sheryl Sandberg was a key, some might say the key, piece in building the two largest advertising and technology companies in the world, Google and Facebook. paradoxically, they don't go by those names anymore, Alphabet and Meta.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Sheryl Sandberg, plus open-source AI gene editing explained
Hello, sister. How are you?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
I think that from now until the end of time, with
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
Totally.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
Qatar was involved.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
And this is just, you know, an example, yet another example that there's not a lot of equity value in these businesses.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Kamala surges, Trump at NABJ, recession fears, Middle East escalation, Ackman postpones IPO
it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it.