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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market

Fri, 07 Jun 2024

Description

(0:00) Besties intros! (2:10) Responding to recent media coverage (17:58) DOJ/FTC strike deal to target Nvidia, OpenAI, and Microsoft (32:40) Meme stocks are back: Keith Gill aka Roaring Kitty resurfaces, disclosing nine figure position in GameStop (58:36) Citadel and BlackRock back TXSE to take on NYSE and Nasdaq (1:02:34) Apple to announce OpenAI iPhone deal at WWDC (1:09:07) Science Corner: Alarming ocean temps continue, what to expect for hurricane season Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://twitter.com/Jason https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://twitter.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@all_in_tok Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQQhAg0mfF8 https://x.com/vkhosla/status/1769529054955446533 https://x.com/vkhosla/status/1796293773389127987 https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1796415146077954329 https://x.com/DavidSacks/status/1798100723617698097 https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1798779830521000426 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/technology/nvidia-microsoft-openai-antitrust-doj-ftc.html https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/ftc-opens-antitrust-probe-of-microsoft-ai-deal-29b5169a https://companiesmarketcap.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9cO3-MLHOM https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/29/newsom-california-artifical-intelligence-regulations-00160519 https://www.reddit.com/user/DeepFuckingValue https://www.wsj.com/finance/regulation/e-trade-considers-kicking-meme-stock-leader-keith-gill-off-platform-f2003ec4 https://x.com/TheRoaringKitty/status/1789807772542067105 https://www.google.com/finance/quote/GME:NYSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-VO6dtFRes https://www.wsj.com/finance/regulation/keith-gills-gamestop-trades-pose-conundrum-for-market-cops-70cc5301 https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GME/gamestop/revenue https://www.wsj.com/finance/stocks/gamestop-burned-andrew-left-in-2021-hes-betting-against-the-stock-again-4377cecb https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/business/melvin-capital-gamestop-short.html https://www.instagram.com/tim.naki/reels https://www.wsj.com/finance/regulation/new-texas-stock-exchange-takes-aim-at-new-yorks-dominance-e3b4d9ba https://listingcenter.nasdaq.com/assets/Board%20Diversity%20Disclosure%20Five%20Things.pdf https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-05/why-is-apple-aapl-teaming-up-with-openai-both-companies-need-each-other https://x.com/leonsimons8/status/1793319395080520036

Audio
Transcription

0.049 - 17.788 Jason Calacanis

All right, everybody, welcome to the world's greatest podcast. With me again today. The world's number one podcast. Yes, the world's number one podcast. We came in eighth last week, I think, for those of you looking at the iTunes rankings, which is absurd. We've only got to beat Ben Shapiro. Number eight across all of Apple? Something like that.

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17.808 - 21.672 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, whatever their top episodes are on the weekends. Well, that means we crushed on Spotify then.

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22.472 - 33.897 Chamath Palihapitiya

Probably, yeah, I would guess. I don't know all the rankings, but... And I guess on YouTube, we got labeled with some COVID thingamajig. I mean, what is going on at YouTube? What a joke.

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34.117 - 55.574 Jason Calacanis

Like, literally, you're labeling COVID at this point? I mean... What a joke. Oh, my Lord. So... I guess we have to, at the top of the show, talk about the fundraiser. And I guess this, like, Vinod Khosla came in hot this week and attacked the besties. Let's play the clip.

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55.894 - 76.511 Unknown

What is your sense of the shifting winds in the valley around politics? I think for a very long time, the valley was seen as sort of a liberal bastion. But, you know, if you listen to Elon Musk or you listen to All In podcast and that gang and others, it seems to be shifting potentially towards former President Trump.

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76.571 - 82.877 Unknown

Is that just a small pocket or do you think that that's a real shift in terms of the way the valley is thinking politically?

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84.124 - 103.928 Unknown

The first thing I would say is All In Podcast and some of the supporters there are not based in the Valley. I would say there's a bunch of MAGA extremists in every part of society. And I hope we can prevent them from destroying democracy, which is probably the most important issue we face.

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103.948 - 108.509 Jason Calacanis

All right, Snacks. Why are you destroying democracy?

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110.429 - 112.55 Chamath Palihapitiya

Now, that's a good bit, Jacob. That's good.

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118.521 - 128.486 Unknown

Rain Man, David Sack. And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Queen of Kinwa.

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131.004 - 138.271 Unknown

All right, David. If Vinod was at the conference, he got a little chippy here. Maybe he got a little bit out of line. He was a little bit out of line. What's your take?

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138.711 - 160.168 David Sacks

A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. Well, first of all, Vinod should realize we're not MAGA extremists or extremists of any sort because he's at all in Summit last year. He was great. Yeah, we like what he had to say. Productive. And I certainly don't dispute his expertise and track record in tech. But in addition to that, then he's saying that we're not based in Silicon Valley.

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160.188 - 181.908 David Sacks

We're not from Silicon Valley. We've all been here for decades. And then he doubled down on that in a tweet. So that's a bizarre statement. Maybe he thinks he gets to define people in or out of Silicon Valley. I don't really understand it. But to be frank, this is one of a series of statements that he's made recently that I can only – call insulting and childish.

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182.328 - 205.262 David Sacks

First, he had this tweet that he said that Trump supporters were lacking in empathy and caring. Then he had another tweet where he said that Trump supporters weren't teaching good values to their kids. This caused Sean McGuire, who's a partner at Sequoia, to quote tweet him saying that, I think that I'd rather raise my kids to grow up to take after Ivanka Trump than Hunter Biden.

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206.402 - 227.761 David Sacks

And that got something like 20,000 likes, and it was one of those brutal ratios I've ever seen on a tweet. So in any event, I mean, this is just one in a series of partisan tweets. And look, I think you can take whatever position you want on a political candidate. I can understand if he doesn't like Trump. A lot of people don't. He's raising money for Biden. That's fine. Doesn't bother me at all.

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227.801 - 230.223 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, he just had a fundraiser like two weeks ago or something.

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230.443 - 245.911 David Sacks

Right, exactly. That's not an issue at all. But what I do take offense at is labeling millions and millions of ordinary Americans as somehow lacking in empathy, lacking in caring, not being good parents, because you don't like their support for Trump.

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246.451 - 246.632 Tim Nacky

Yeah.

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246.972 - 275.858 David Sacks

And I think that that is a statement that, frankly... reeks of being cocooned in an elite bubble for way too long. And let me just explain. If you look at where Trump's support is strongest, it's really in middle America, in sort of the heartland of America of what- Basically, the part of America that Coastal at least dismissively refer to as flyover country. Sure.

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276.438 - 289.481 David Sacks

And it's a lot of the industrial Midwest. And frankly, that part of the country has not had the same type of economic experience that we've had in Silicon Valley. Of course. They have not been beneficiaries of globalization.

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290.16 - 295.805 Jason Calacanis

Or equities, you know, and they're in the working class, and the working class in the factories got gutted, yeah.

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296.325 - 320.867 David Sacks

Well, yeah, look, if you're in one of the handful of export industries in America, and I'm talking about if you're in Hollywood or you're in big finance or you're in software, then globalization has been great for you because it has created huge global markets for our products. However, if you're in an industry that has to compete with global exports, then it's been very bad with you.

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320.927 - 337.064 David Sacks

And blue collar workers have been hurt, labor's been hurt, people who work with their hands have been hurt. They have not benefited in the same way from the system that we've had in this country for the last 30 years. So you can understand why they would not be so enchanted with elite thinking.

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337.925 - 357.701 David Sacks

And I think to then label those people as lacking in caring or empathy or not being good parents because they haven't had the same economic ride that you've had for the last 30 years. It's a blind spot. You are the one who is fighting a legal battle to kick some of those people, the public, off a public beach.

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357.721 - 358.562 Unknown

The surfers at his beach, yeah.

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359.773 - 368.098 David Sacks

kick the public off of the public beach in front of your beach house. And then you're saying they're the ones lacking in empathy. Dude, look in the mirror.

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368.118 - 382.026 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, I mean, listen, the great irony of this is, as you know, the Democrats were supposed to be the party of the working people and Biden was supposed to be the pinnacle of that, like fighting for unions, fighting for the working person. And so they've just lost that whole thing.

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382.066 - 402.436 David Friedberg

And I'll say like, it feels like a lot of people are tilted because they defeated Trump and now he's back. And so that tilts a lot of people. There was a lot of effort, a lot of energy, and a feeling of success that Trump was ousted. And the fact that the guy is now the frontrunner to be president again can be very tilting after feeling like you've already won the battle. And guess what?

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402.556 - 424.183 David Friedberg

It's back. I will also defend Vinod real quick. I'll say, having known Vinod for a long time, he's an investor with me. He's a guy I've come to appreciate and think highly of. We had him at the summit. It was great at the summit. It was great. It was awesome. If you listen to his thing, he said the listeners of the pod and then he said MAGA extremists. So they're not based in Silicon Valley.

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424.644 - 429.325 David Friedberg

I think he was referencing that the listeners of the pod are not based in Silicon Valley and they are MAGA extremists.

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429.665 - 430.545 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, I couldn't hear.

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430.825 - 435.586 David Friedberg

I think what he meant to say was and some of the supporters there are not based in Silicon Valley, meaning like the supporters.

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436.046 - 438.187 Jason Calacanis

Chamath, your thoughts on Vinod's comments?

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439.298 - 463.436 Chamath Palihapitiya

Yeah, I think Vinod's comments are a microcosm of something that's a little bit bigger than just him and I think is roughly emblematic of the mainstream media, which is I think the four of us have found over the course of these last four years doing the podcast a rhythm. where there's a whole diversity of views. We've always respected each other. We've learned from each other.

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464.176 - 487.075 Chamath Palihapitiya

And each of us have taken turns expressing something that the others have ended up converging on. That's not a holistic statement on every issue, but it has happened. And that's an incredible example of how you should figure things out from first principles, especially things that matter. And I think this is the first time, and you know, look, David said this a few years ago.

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487.155 - 511.572 Chamath Palihapitiya

He said, Sachs did, that the course of elections will be driven by podcasts. And I didn't give that a full enough weighting at the moment when he said it. But I think what I'm realizing is it's not necessarily just that podcasts will frame elections, but it's the counterfactual, which is that it fills a vacuum.

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512.232 - 524.319 Chamath Palihapitiya

And I think what you're seeing right now are the reactions of people that have thrived in what used to work, which was a traditional media infrastructure that would shape how people were supposed to think.

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525.285 - 540.853 Chamath Palihapitiya

But then all of a sudden, if you can have a platform like this, where people just talk from first principles, respectfully, and then the chips are going to be what it is, and people will come to their own conclusions, I think that that's what people are reacting to.

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540.953 - 561.947 Chamath Palihapitiya

So I think what Vinod is reacting to is this sort of discomfort where you see four reasonable, intelligent people all of a sudden talk open-mindedly about what's happening in the presidential election. And what you leave out is the planted orthodoxy of what you're supposed to think. And that's disconcerting to him.

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561.967 - 581.34 Chamath Palihapitiya

It's disconcerting and confusing maybe to Sorkin, who I think is a wonderful reporter and a thinker. It's disconcerting, Jason, to every single media outlet over the last week that's breathlessly been trying to get me or Saks to have an opinion on this. And the reason I've deleted all of these emails is they don't get a chance to frame what we think. Mm-hmm.

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582.17 - 598.456 Chamath Palihapitiya

You can listen to the podcast and know what we think. This is the future of how smart, reasonable, moderate people should make decisions. It is an example. Talking to somebody you disagree with does not make your opinion bastardized. It actually makes your opinion valuable.

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599.016 - 620.214 Chamath Palihapitiya

There are these simple truths to living a productive life that if you want to embrace, you need to find friends that you can trust. Even on issues when you disagree, you can hear them out. So that's what's happening right now. And I think that that's why we all need to sort of stand together and lock in arms and just keep moving forward. It is something really important here that's happening.

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620.534 - 625.897 Chamath Palihapitiya

And I think that's why the media and these opinion makers are losing their minds.

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626.597 - 645.296 Jason Calacanis

Friedberg, your thoughts on this? You're friends with Vinod, as you mentioned, and you've always said to me and in our personal discussions that the reason you do this pod is because you really want to set an example of how to have great conversations and learn from each other and the tone of what we do here. So your thoughts on this?

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645.936 - 663.185 David Friedberg

The unfortunate reality in a voting system, an election cycle like we're in, Vinod went and did a fundraiser. It's public, but he did a fundraiser for Biden a few weeks ago. And he wants to win the election. He wants to make his horse win. There's a lot of reasons why I'm sure Vinod has chosen that person to be his horse.

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664.005 - 686.699 David Friedberg

And so when you get on the playing field, you got two teams and only one team wins. So everyone pulls out all the stops to win. One of the things that is done is unfortunate and it over time causes an erosion and a hardening into a kind of polarity between all people, which is that you call the other side wrong or bad or extreme. The term that he used, which really I think

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688.188 - 695.253 David Friedberg

personifies the problem is he said their listeners are their MAGA extremists. Extremists being the word, right?

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695.353 - 699.215 Jason Calacanis

MAGA just means make America great again, which I think everybody wants to make America great again.

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699.636 - 719.326 David Friedberg

Whatever. The extremism phrase is used by both parties to describe the points of view of the other side. And what I think is lacking is a reshifting of the perspective to say their views are valid. I acknowledge their views. I hear them. I know why they feel that way. I'm understanding where that group of people are coming from.

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720.166 - 737.793 David Friedberg

And to have that acknowledgement unfortunately softens and weakens your position and ability to go out and win an election. And so both sides harden themselves and use terms like this. to try and discredit the other side. So it's unfortunate to see, I think we all understand where someone who's trying to win a battle on the field is coming from when they're trying to do this.

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738.353 - 755.48 David Friedberg

But I do think that what is deeply lacking in the erosion that's arisen is because we can't say, I hear you, I see the problems, I recognize you as people just like us, you have kids, your families, and you have a different point of view on the policies that will work and the individual that will realize those policies.

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756.072 - 783.973 Chamath Palihapitiya

I also think it's important to make sure that we reiterate again, at the sake of being pedantic, the facts, which is this is a nonpartisan show. And it is a platform that has showcased and given time to Democrats and Republicans and independents. And they've all taken us up on it. So that thought by Vinod is incredible. at best, incomplete, and more appropriately, just stupid and factually wrong.

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784.273 - 788.516 David Sacks

That's a good point. Larry Summers spoke at the same conference that Vinod did.

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788.536 - 809.531 Chamath Palihapitiya

Larry Summers, Dean Phillips, Bobby Kennedy, Chris Christie. I mean, this is a spectrum of people that we are bringing on. Cheryl Sandberg. Cheryl Sandberg. You can hear from them. Jared Kushner. Jared Kushner. You can hear from them in an unfiltered way and come to your own conclusion. That's why we were number eight last week. That's the exact reason why.

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809.931 - 826.063 Chamath Palihapitiya

And I think that that's very scary because instead of power brokers being able to filter an opinion, you now have an opportunity to just hear it for yourself, discuss it amongst your friends and come to your own conclusion. So we have always been bipartisan here and we will continue to be bipartisan.

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826.103 - 833.749 Chamath Palihapitiya

The second thing is, and I just want to say this again, I have asked the White House for President Biden to come on the show. Oh, come on the show, please. Yeah. Yeah.

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834.639 - 836 David Sacks

Yeah, we've offered the exact same thing.

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836.32 - 850.793 Jason Calacanis

We are just waiting. People really don't want me to be friends with you guys. They want me to end my friendship with you, Chamath. They want me to end my friendship with you, Sax. And these are people who are mutuals, I just want to say. And I want to just tell them all equally to go f*** themselves here. You can bleep out the F word.

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851.718 - 872.511 Jason Calacanis

Like, I'm not picking my friends based on their political parties or their leanings or who they're supporting for president. The way I look at this, Sax, is at this point, we're all Americans. We're in this together. America survived Trump's presidency. America's going to survive Biden's presidency. The democratic process, it is very messy. Everybody gets to have a voice.

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872.651 - 891.748 Jason Calacanis

And let's just pause for a second here and open up the aperture. Let's be thankful that everybody gets to have a say. Let's keep it from getting personal. Half the humans on this planet Earth do not have a voice. The one thing that's trending in the wrong direction globally is people living in a democracy. It's the one thing not getting better. We have a lot of work to do in this country.

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892.108 - 909.16 Jason Calacanis

We have to respect each other, like we try to do here on this podcast. And we have to talk about the important issues. We all agree the budget's out of control. We all agree the education system sucks. We live in a multipolar world. We have to figure that out. when we should go to war, when we shouldn't, when we need to stay out of things. These are complicated issues.

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909.7 - 924.029 Jason Calacanis

And name calling in this presidency is not as important as tackling these issues together as Americans. I hope everybody can keep that in mind. So let's debate this. May the best candidate win. And then let's move on and let's solve some problems here. Okay.

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924.15 - 927.493 Chamath Palihapitiya

And it's getting very personal. Well said. Really well said.

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927.713 - 935.08 Jason Calacanis

I know I'm really hurt by this because I tell you personally, it's very hurtful to me because I value our friendships and they're picking on the wrong guy because you're the most loyal guy.

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935.521 - 937.863 Chamath Palihapitiya

And so it's kind of like it's going to be the least effective.

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937.943 - 941.326 David Sacks

Well, you still care what they think, J. Cal. That's the problem. So they can get to you.

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941.406 - 943.689 Jason Calacanis

You can ask me if I do that. Don't tell me what I think, Sax.

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943.869 - 944.529 David Sacks

You can ask me. Okay.

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945.37 - 948.931 Jason Calacanis

I actually care about people. Do you still care about what they think? The two of you bicker like brothers.

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949.071 - 949.491 Chamath Palihapitiya

No, we do.

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949.511 - 952.412 Jason Calacanis

But I know I just have to retrain Sax that he can't tell me what I think.

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952.432 - 953.492 Chamath Palihapitiya

Retrain, okay.

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953.512 - 955.413 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, no, because you do that. You put words in my mouth.

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955.433 - 960.034 Chamath Palihapitiya

For all listeners, I just want you to know they've been bickering like this for 20 years. So it's the funniest thing.

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960.074 - 963.715 David Friedberg

Here's the point. It happens even worse offline when we're not on the show. It's unbelievable.

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963.735 - 966.996 David Sacks

Non-stop. You're ruining it, J. Cal. You're just ruining it right now.

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967.016 - 986.99 Jason Calacanis

No, here's the thing. I respect... All of my friends, and I like having a diversity of opinions. That makes life more interesting for me. And then to tell me I can't be friends with this person, that person, the way I grew up, my dad had a bar. Hells Angels, cops, firefighters, just everybody was allowed to come and hang out at the bar. We're here. We're having a discourse.

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987.15 - 988.852 Jason Calacanis

Everybody's welcome for a seat at the table.

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989.192 - 990.373 Chamath Palihapitiya

LGBTQ, were they allowed?

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990.453 - 992.154 Jason Calacanis

All of them, the entire rainbow.

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992.374 - 996.978 David Sacks

What people haven't figured out yet is cancel culture is over. Virtue signaling is over.

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997.438 - 999.699 Jason Calacanis

Absolutely. DEIs over all this nonsense.

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999.719 - 1021.808 David Sacks

It's off-trend, not on-trend. And the people who are still tweeting these blanket statements and they're trying to demonize the entire other side with unfactual, unfounded potshots are just making fools of themselves. And you can see that in the reaction on X. All right, let's move on. We have some breaking news here. Oh, no. Just to put things on a happier note.

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1022.182 - 1024.165 Jason Calacanis

What happened? Did Uber get bought by Tesla?

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1024.185 - 1027.269 David Sacks

Tesla just launched the Tesla mezcal.

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1027.729 - 1033.717 Jason Calacanis

Oh, breaking news story. Hold on. It's a breaking news story. Tesla has launched mezcal.

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1034.44 - 1048.344 David Sacks

In that beautiful lightning bottle. I just ordered my bottle of this like two seconds ago while we were doing the show. Uh-oh. Because this sold out in like two hours before. And now the bottles of the original Tesla tequila go for like $2,000 now on eBay.

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1048.724 - 1049.484 Jason Calacanis

Breaking news.

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1049.624 - 1053.045 David Sacks

So get yours now if it's still... Smokey Moscow.

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1053.065 - 1060.848 Jason Calacanis

There you go. Wait a second. Is this going to compete with the all-in? A little bit. A little bit. Uh-oh. Well, it'll be all sold out by the time we launch our ball.

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1060.868 - 1061.908 David Sacks

We're both going to be sold out.

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1062.128 - 1071.752 Jason Calacanis

We're both going to be sold out. See that? Everybody can win. It's not a zero-sum game. Everybody can secure the bag. All right, let's get into the docket. Enough of the self-referential.

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1071.772 - 1075.373 Chamath Palihapitiya

We're all influencers now. Did you guys see my deck this month? We're all influencers now.

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1075.393 - 1096.913 Jason Calacanis

We're all influencers. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot of federal regulation going on around AI, as we know, regulatory capture. Shout out to our guy, Bill Gurley, who did a great talk last year about this. On Wednesday, the New York Times reported that the DOJ and the FTC had struck a deal on how to go after AI incumbents. Here's the terms of the deal. And again, this is all breaking.

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1097.333 - 1120.033 Jason Calacanis

The DOJ gets to investigate whether NVIDIA violated antitrust laws. They didn't specify what they're going after here, but it could include the NVIDIA use of CUDA software to lock customers into using their GPUs, or maybe how NVIDIA distributes their GPUs to customers. There's a lot of regulation around that. And the FTC takes the lead on looking into OpenAI's conduct in Microsoft's AI deals.

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1120.154 - 1138.198 Jason Calacanis

Obviously, there's been a ton of those including acqui hires, etc. And then just this morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that the FTC had opened a probe into Microsoft's deal with inflection AI. That's the one if you remember, where they bought the staff and then did some fakaka crazy commerce deal where they give them a bunch of money, I guess to bail out the investors.

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1139.019 - 1159.126 Jason Calacanis

And that one is as conflicted up and down as you could possibly imagine. They note Microsoft structured that deal in a way that could avoid regulatory scrutiny. You heard that here first, actually. We talked about this concept of a shadow acqui-hire on this very program when we saw it, because we'd never seen a deal like that. It includes that $650 million licensing fee. All right.

0
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1159.466 - 1183.451 Jason Calacanis

There's tons of other angles here. But let's start with you, Chamath. What are your thoughts on this regulatory capture and Nvidia's ascension? For those of you not watching, it's almost become the largest market cap company in tech. Actually, today, Nvidia passed Apple for a moment in time. So this is pretty crazy what we've seen with Nvidia. And here we go, regulatory capture coming in hot.

0
💬 0

1183.711 - 1187.252 Jason Calacanis

Chamath, your thoughts? I have two thoughts. They're sort of mixed emotions.

0
💬 0

1189.395 - 1217.637 Chamath Palihapitiya

The first is, I think the DOJ and the FTC are totally way out of their ski tips on this. This is a totally nascent industry. We don't have any good examples of end-user use cases, either in the enterprise or amongst consumers. We only have 18 months of spend history. It is true that we've spent probably $750 billion to a trillion dollars collectively now on things with the AI label.

0
💬 0

1218.038 - 1244.626 Chamath Palihapitiya

But it is also true that that's probably generated less than $10 billion in revenue. So I don't see what they're exactly investigating. in an extremely immature market where we haven't yet seen one cycle of boom and bust so that we know what we're actually dealing with. So it's way too premature and it's just people afraid and tilting at windmills. The second part, the part that's mixed though is

0
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1245.507 - 1264.181 Chamath Palihapitiya

We are seeing a clever form of deal-making that these huge hyperscalers are doing to work around the traditional constraints that you've had on businesses. Jason, you and I worked at AOL in a moment where AOL paid a very dear cost for essentially round-tripping revenue. Yep.

0
💬 0

1264.961 - 1278.611 Chamath Palihapitiya

Microsoft had to go through a huge DOJ inquiry and a settlement decree, and they were in the penalty box for most of Steve Ballmer's tenure as a CEO. A lost decade, yeah. And the handcuffs came off when Satya took over that business.

0
💬 0

1280.123 - 1306.827 Chamath Palihapitiya

So I think what I'm trying to say is folks have become extremely sophisticated at replacing roundtripping with these complicated TAC 2.0, whatever you want to call it, credit-oriented deals. They'll finance you to buy their own chips. All of this stuff... has to be scrutinized a little bit more. So that part I support. But all of a sudden, launching an antitrust investigation makes no sense.

0
💬 0

1306.847 - 1310.85 Chamath Palihapitiya

So I really think the inquiry should be coming from the SEC about, is this real revenue?

0
💬 0

1311.651 - 1329.184 Jason Calacanis

That's actually the key issue. And this goes to Chamath, what we talked about. If we're going to police something, tactics... makes sense, not future competition, which has been Lena Kahn's sort of approach to this. And she's only going to be in the position for another couple of months if the election goes the way it's going. So this might all be moot.

0
💬 0

1330.485 - 1340.151 Jason Calacanis

Freeberg, I want to get your thoughts on this. We had that great talk, 2,851 miles from Bill and regulatory capture at the summit. You can look, it would be in the show notes if you haven't seen it. It's great talk.

0
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1340.651 - 1349.23 David Friedberg

Freeberg, your thoughts on this? I don't know what regulatory... capture NVIDIA? Are you talking about regulatory capture of NVIDIA?

0
💬 0

1349.31 - 1359.616 Jason Calacanis

Just regulatory capture in the framing of AI? Is it too early? Hey, we're like, in the we're not even in the first inning here. And already, we're going to start investigating everybody.

0
💬 0

1359.877 - 1380.353 David Friedberg

And it just seems pretty sure one of the silly aspects is they just passed this law in California, Newsom warns against perils. of over-regulating AI. Oh, good. Governor Newsom warned on Wednesday against stifling the burgeoning AI sector. I mean, Newsom is well-informed by the tech community. Sure.

0
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1380.894 - 1402.869 David Friedberg

And he's also an intelligent person, so I don't think he'd kind of fall quickly in line on this one. But the way that the statutes were written is there's a definition on the size of a model which in and of itself is very quickly changing. As we know, we've seen recently significant reductions in model size that actually improve performance overall of the model for specific applications.

0
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1402.909 - 1420.925 David Friedberg

And it's very likely we end up seeing a lot of more smaller targeted models being used in specific applications instead of one massive general purpose model being used, or networks of smaller models, which is what really where I think the industry is going. And if that's where things go, then the statute doesn't even matter. It makes no sense anymore.

0
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1421.286 - 1438.201 David Friedberg

And that shows you, I think, how quickly things are changing. They go and they get, quote, experts' opinions. In a couple of months, those experts come back. They're like, here is the size of a model that you need to be regulating. And then the legislators run and they write the code. They pass the statute. And all of a sudden, it doesn't even make sense anymore.

0
💬 0

1438.701 - 1452.465 David Friedberg

So yes, I don't think we really know where this technology is all falling out at this point. And I think it's very difficult to have the government kind of reach in too quickly to try and identify what they should and shouldn't be allowing to happen from a free market perspective.

0
💬 0

1453.266 - 1464.029 Jason Calacanis

Your thoughts, David Sachs, especially in light of the fact that looking like we're going to have some regime change in Washington and the FTC is going to turn over, obviously, if that happens.

0
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1464.994 - 1485.976 David Sacks

Well, look, I agree with you guys that this is just too soon to be opening these investigations. It's true that OpenAI and NVIDIA have leads in their respective markets, but that's all it is at this point. It's way too early in the development of these markets to say that these are clearly monopolists. There's still a lot of competition going on. If a few years from now,

0
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1487.117 - 1505.384 David Sacks

NVIDIA still has whatever, 85%, 90% market share, and no one's even close to catching up. Then maybe you consider it a monopolist. Same thing with open AI. But it just seems very early to be rushing into investigations of these companies. I mean, the AI market is what, 18 months old, two years old maybe at most? Yeah.

0
💬 0

1505.504 - 1506.985 Jason Calacanis

I'd say two is a good way to look at it.

0
💬 0

1507.045 - 1524.008 David Sacks

Yeah. So it's just very early to be doing this. Look, I think this is of a piece with... Remember that executive order or whatever that... Remember when the White House issued that 100-page-plus... executive order on AI regulation, we covered it on the show. And we also thought that was too soon.

0
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1524.288 - 1549.43 David Sacks

And we thought that if the internet had been regulated in that way in, you know, circa 1995 or 1997, it never would have blossomed the way that it did. You know, you want to give these markets some time to play out before you bring down the heavy hand of regulation on them. So it just seems to me like the administration is getting carried away here with this desire to regulate this new space.

0
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1550.331 - 1572.469 David Sacks

And I mean, frankly, it's of a piece with, I would say, an innovation hostile agenda. You also have the attacks on crypto. You just had Biden veto a bill that would have finally given crypto a regulatory framework in the US. It passed with 60 votes in the Senate, including Democrats like Chuck Schumer. And it still wasn't good enough.

0
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1572.71 - 1591.605 David Sacks

Oh, and it was based on a framework, I think that came from the SEC. But Biden is basically in the Elizabeth Warren camp that he's going to give no quarter to crypto. So you've got hostility to AI. You've got hostility to crypto. You've got hostility to M&A. No one can get an M&A deal through right now. You put all these things together.

0
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1591.685 - 1606.622 David Sacks

Plus, you've got hostility to options as compensation in terms of the 25% unrealized gains tax. You add up all these things, and again, I think this is an agenda that does not benefit Silicon Valley at all.

0
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1607.031 - 1625.363 Jason Calacanis

Well, and if you want to understand why people are coming to your fundraiser tonight, if you put all this together, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're a venture capitalist or an entrepreneur and you want to see M&A and you want to see entrepreneurship and you want to see your companies thrive and you want to see your employees get rich and have options, Biden is basically handing the election to Trump.

0
💬 0

1625.443 - 1629.546 David Sacks

It's like he's doing everything he can to basically alienate Silicon Valley.

0
💬 0

1630.086 - 1643.276 Chamath Palihapitiya

And capitalism. And you're exactly right. And innovation. I wouldn't even say it's Silicon Valley. It's like if you're going to go and build things, that are at the bleeding edge. You know, the government used to be the most critical supporter of that, right?

0
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1643.396 - 1657.546 Chamath Palihapitiya

If you think about space or defense, these are areas, the internet itself, the government was the partner of private industry to make sure that there was no regulation and that like really, really forward-looking innovation could happen. That should be their role.

0
💬 0

1658.006 - 1681.577 Jason Calacanis

And this speaks to this desal versus acceleration movement that we see here in Silicon Valley and this is what we see in Texas. Florida, UAE, Riyadh, Doha. There are places in the world, Singapore, where people are accelerating innovation. And this is what humans want. Not just entrepreneurs, not just venture capitals. All of us want to see an acceleration of innovation.

0
💬 0

1681.917 - 1694.181 Jason Calacanis

Everybody wants to see prosperity. And if you put yourself up as the de-sell candidate, we're not going to allow M&A. We're going to screw with options. We're going to do all this stuff. People are just not going to vote for you. And people want crypto legal. So take the memo.

0
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1695.021 - 1718.898 Jason Calacanis

I mean, the fact that the Democrats can't field a candidate that aligns with what humanity wants is absolutely mind boggling. This is why I think Biden's getting hot swapped this month. You heard it here first. Gavin is going to be running for president. It's going to be Trump and Gavin. They are hot swapping Biden after this first debate. Biden is going to get demolished by Trump in the debate.

0
💬 0

1719.279 - 1723.261 Jason Calacanis

It's going to be elder abuse. He's getting wiped out and hot swapped. You heard it here first.

0
💬 0

1724.5 - 1742.092 David Sacks

Well, there's a lot of conspiracy theorists online who agree with you. A lot of tinfoil hat speculation that he's going to get switcheroo. Hot swap. But look, I mean, I think you make the correct point, which is, you know, I didn't really think about it this way, but you're right. Biden is the decel candidate. And nobody wants that.

0
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1742.472 - 1760.758 David Sacks

Also, Trump has shown a learning curve where he recently has been saying positive things about crypto. Yeah. And he's always, I think, been more pro-economic growth. He was a real estate developer from the private sector. He actually understands the economy. So there's no question that he would be more pro-innovation, much more pro-innovation than Biden.

0
💬 0

1761.598 - 1784.766 David Sacks

And to your point about this is one of the reasons why people are coming to the fundraiser, I had someone from the campaign said something very interesting to me. She said that we've never seen this many new donors at an event before. So we're turning out the new donors for this reason. And we're not gonna be intimidated by people calling us names. It's like, look, in any normal election,

0
💬 0

1785.566 - 1795.953 David Sacks

people in an industry would vote for the candidate who they see as most aligned with what is good for them, their families, their industry.

0
💬 0

1795.973 - 1813.546 Jason Calacanis

If you made a list, let's just make the list here right now. Make the list of things Trump is in support of, right? And Republicans are in support of right now. They're going to be pro M&A. They're going to be pro crypto. They're going to be pro less taxes. They're going to be pro law and order. You know what? That's where I align. Those are the things I want.

0
💬 0

1814.346 - 1831.664 Jason Calacanis

So if you just list the issues for me, despite how I might feel about Trump and some of the things he's done, he checks off all my boxes. He checks off all my boxes. And I think that's what's happening here. And people were scared to come out and say, this person checks off all my boxes. The Democrats need to realize they're out of sync with America.

0
💬 0

1831.884 - 1844.177 Jason Calacanis

They're out of sync with powerful people in America, especially the donor base. They're the decel party now. And they just have to flip this thinking. They're going to get demolished. It is going to be a landslide at this point.

0
💬 0

1844.837 - 1854.027 David Sacks

People want jobs and prosperity. From your lips to God's ears. Do the hot swap. I mean. I don't really have a lot more to say.

0
💬 0

1854.107 - 1872.667 Jason Calacanis

I think you make a great point. Take the win. I mean it. And crypto is such an obvious win. And you know what? Trump's anti-EV right now. He's been wailing on EVs. I guarantee you that's the next thing. I bet you next week he comes out. Next week, within the next two weeks, here's my prediction. Trump says, you know what? EV is not so bad.

0
💬 0

1873.388 - 1884.833 Jason Calacanis

Remember, he's been saying EVs, nobody wants these things. We're subsidizing. I bet you next week or maybe in 30 days, I'm making a prediction here. You bank the prediction. In 30 days, Trump comes out magically in support of EVs.

0
💬 0

1885.393 - 1888.675 David Sacks

Well, I just think that his point is that people shouldn't be forced to buy EVs.

0
💬 0

1889.055 - 1889.675 Jason Calacanis

Right.

0
💬 0

1889.695 - 1893.877 David Sacks

I mean, I don't think he's against them per se. I think he's against people being forced.

0
💬 0

1894.477 - 1913.275 David Sacks

Look, I think that what the new administration, hopefully, or what Trump should propose is effectively a modus vivendi with big tech, where the point is that if you stop censoring our people, if you stop censoring conservatives, if you restore the civil liberties of the average American to say what they want online, to...

0
💬 0

1913.655 - 1929.942 David Sacks

basically bank online, to stop essentially deplatforming and censoring people, then we will let you innovate. We'll let you do M&A. We'll let you get back to business. That basically is the basis for a peace agreement between big tech and the Republican Party.

0
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1930.222 - 1947.23 Jason Calacanis

Yeah. And by the way, I'd say in the next... 30 to 60 days, you're going to see 10 incredibly high profile people come out in support of Trump if Biden isn't swapped out. And when I say high profile, I have the inside line on this extremely high profile people, not just Doug Leone, not just David Sachs and Chamath Bhaiyapatiya.

0
💬 0

1947.751 - 1968.044 Jason Calacanis

It is going to be about 10 high profile people who are much higher profile, respectfully, than Chamath and Sachs and Doug Leone. So just wait for it, folks. You cannot be a decelerist in, you know, this world. Let's keep moving. Roaring Kitty, aka Keith Gill, just disclosed a nine figure position in GameStop. Yes, we're back to where this podcast started.

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1968.405 - 1992.367 Jason Calacanis

We're talking about GameStop and stonks as crazy as it is. And a E trade is considering suspending his account. This is going to take a little bit of background. I apologize here. I don't mean to deplatforming him. Here we go again. Quick background. You remember the first basically viral moment for this podcast, this AI moment, I remember I was in Tahoe skiing, was the GameStop saga back in 2021.

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1992.787 - 2014.307 Jason Calacanis

Thousands of retail investors following this individual, Keith Gill, were posting in this subreddit called WallStreetBets, if you're not familiar, and they created a massive short squeeze, and they sent the stock flying. Robinhood halted the trading. Remember, Vlad came on. That one all went crazy. We covered that all. And then Keith Gill went silent for the past three years on Twitter and Reddit.

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2014.327 - 2037.143 Jason Calacanis

He said nothing. Then on May 12th, he posted this meme on X, which has been viewed 28 million times. Now, if you don't know this meme, this is the lean forward meme when you've got a game controller in your hand. It is a way to signal like, hey, we're getting to the boss level. It's going to get exciting. Here's your GameStop chart, folks. You see that first peak?

0
💬 0

2037.203 - 2040.245 Jason Calacanis

That's when we reported on it back in 2021. And here we go again.

0
💬 0

2040.265 - 2044.768 Unknown

It just had to slow right down for three years and bink. popped up again.

0
💬 0

2045.408 - 2070.735 Jason Calacanis

So GameStock stock tripled at the posting of that meme. Why is this important? Well, he has a huge position. He increased it from 200,000 shares, basically to 5 million, had 120,000 call options. Jamal will comment on all this in a moment. If he exercised all these calls, Gill could own an additional 12 million shares. Here's Gary Gensler, who was on CNBC Wednesday trying to

0
💬 0

2072.199 - 2077.081 Jason Calacanis

like calm the markets down and or try to get control of this craziness. Here's the clip.

0
💬 0

2077.341 - 2100.451 Jim Cramer

I say to you, look, I want to put up a I want to put up a cryptogram and it's of a chair leaning up, which we know from video game playing means, come on, this is the ninth inning. Get ready. And we know that I'm a person who happens to like the stock of GameStop. This is the single. Come on, get ready. Is this something hypothetically that is that the SEC should worry about? It's a

0
💬 0

2100.811 - 2129.672 Gary Gensler

Look, again, it's not so hypothetical because you're describing things that are in the public domain and the public is interested in. But generally speaking, you have to make sure that you don't mislead the public and that you don't in any way do things in the markets that may be... or manipulative or misleading. And so that's the key thing in our capital markets.

0
💬 0

2129.692 - 2138.886 Jim Cramer

No, the key thing is if you can cure it with disclosure. This is Brandeis. You know if they disclose that this is something that they call action, then you can't go after them.

0
💬 0

2139.306 - 2164.664 Gary Gensler

disclosure is one really key part of our capital markets. When you buy the stock of a company, you expect that they give you full and fair disclosure. That's, by the way, not what you're getting right now in this crypto field. So I just, you know, cautionary tale there, that disclosure. But disclosure doesn't necessarily protect a bad actor if they're manipulating a market.

0
💬 0

2164.844 - 2175.996 Jason Calacanis

Chamath, you've You've had a lot of comments on the markets and specifically this one over the years. What are your thoughts? Is posting this meme stock manipulation or disclosure?

0
💬 0

2178.059 - 2203.433 Chamath Palihapitiya

No, he's posting a meme. Okay, thank you. He put a picture on the internet. Okay. I mean, again, this is like the problem that we have, which is that he disclosed his position in a different way. Now, we don't know whether that disclosure is accurate because I think it was just a screenshot of like some statement inside of a Reddit thread, right? And then that got posted many times elsewhere.

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💬 0

2204.254 - 2221.151 Chamath Palihapitiya

Is this accurate? I don't know. Because he has no obligation as an individual to do any of this stuff. Because he's not running a hedge fund and he's not running other people's money. Now, if he was acting in concert with other people, you could say, hey, hold on a second.

0
💬 0

2221.271 - 2250.638 Chamath Palihapitiya

If you're repping not just your money, but other people's money and you did this, then there's probably a disclosure obligation there. But at the end of the day, this is a guy that acted and basically created hype. And right now, the SEC does not have a framework to deal with that because the rules that existed didn't understand social media and whatnot. And he's also not a regulated entity.

0
💬 0

2250.798 - 2274.809 Chamath Palihapitiya

He's just an individual. Now, if it turns out that he was selling while he was posting this stuff and trying to manipulate the market in some way, obviously they could find issue with that. But just for him being a credible influencer, and creating momentum for an underlying position, that in and of itself is not illegal.

0
💬 0

2276.009 - 2281.733 Jason Calacanis

Sacks, I think we have to go to Judge Sacks here. Judge Sacks, what is your verdict? Are memes stock manipulation? Judge Sacks.

0
💬 0

2282.154 - 2297.389 David Sacks

No, I don't see any manipulation there. Like Jamal said, he's just posting a meme. Not guilty. Not guilty. What I see in that clip is Jim Cramer trying to stir up an SEC investigation of Keith Gill. For what? I mean, what exactly has he done here?

0
💬 0

2297.429 - 2305.834 Chamath Palihapitiya

This is kind of... The Wall Street Journal as well. If you look at the Wall Street Journal today, there's an entire article basically with the headline, is what Keith Gill is doing illegal.

0
💬 0

2306.514 - 2329.542 Chamath Palihapitiya

And I think you can view this in a different lens, which is here is an individual that is totally outside of the establishment that however he's done it, has gotten a hold of hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe even now billions if the stock keeps going. And I think that that for the establishment that controls those pipes, very disconcerting.

0
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2330.819 - 2344.918 David Sacks

Right. If he was one of those apex predators on Wall Street, if he was one of those major hedge funds that donates a lot of money to the political elite, in other words, if he was a well-connected political player, I doubt anyone would be asking these questions.

0
💬 0

2346.22 - 2359.683 Jason Calacanis

Freiburg, you got thoughts on this? Market manipulation or meme, stonk, fun, good times. You're buying GameStop. You're buying AMC. Buyer beware. You're in on the joke. What are your thoughts?

0
💬 0

2360.044 - 2391.972 David Friedberg

Nick, can you pull up the image? I'm going to talk about the stupidity of buying the stock of this company at this valuation. This is a company. And then I think we can talk about whether that's even relevant, which I think indication is it's not. GameStop finished the year 2023 fiscal year with Sales of 5.3 billion down from 5.9 billion the year before. So sales declined by 12% in the year.

0
💬 0

2392.813 - 2394.774 Jason Calacanis

They have $5 billion in revenue selling games?

0
💬 0

2395.474 - 2419.547 David Friedberg

Adjusted EBITDA for the year was $65 million. And they have about 1.2 billion in cash. Currently, as of today, the market cap is about $13.5 billion. So that makes it about a $12.5 billion enterprise value. 12 and a half billion divided by 65 million of EBITDA means that this stock is currently trading at about 192 times EBITDA.

0
💬 0

2420.347 - 2434.855 David Friedberg

A business that is profitable and you can say that the profits are stable and predictable and is likely not gonna grow very much will typically trade for seven to 12 times EBITDA. And the stock is trading at 192 times EBITDA and the revenue is declining 12% a year.

0
💬 0

2435.396 - 2453.899 David Friedberg

So I'll just point out, like, I don't think that there's anything about the actual performance of the underlying business and the security that you are buying or selling when you are making a decision about whether or not to buy or sell the security. And I think that that's the real question. It does that even matter? Clearly, it doesn't. Let people have fun. Let them go to Vegas.

0
💬 0

2454.42 - 2469.769 David Friedberg

Let them play in the roulette table. They know what they're getting into. The disclosures are all there. All the SEC filings are there. All the financials of this business are there. What you're actually buying is publicly viewable. You can look at it. You can make an investment decision as an individual investor and trader.

0
💬 0

2470.269 - 2475.953 David Friedberg

And you want to blow your money trying to see when the social trends are going to shift one way or another. Let it be your decision.

0
💬 0

2476.618 - 2498.051 Jason Calacanis

I think this is well said. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying stonks like this, if you're playing poker in a, if you're playing bomb pots, look it up, folks, if you don't know what bomb pots are, and you're going crazy playing bomb pots for eight hours like we did the other week, you're there to gamble. If you are playing bomb bots, this is the bomb bots of the stock market.

0
💬 0

2498.251 - 2505.595 Jason Calacanis

Have fun, go crazy. If you're buying NFTs, if you're buying crypto and the latest token, you know what you're getting into.

0
💬 0

2506.015 - 2520.664 David Friedberg

There's no law, there's no law that defines why you should or should not buy a security with respect to the diligence you have individually done to determine whether the underlying business is worth the price you're paying. The law says that the businesses

0
💬 0

2521.144 - 2535.421 David Friedberg

that are listing their securities for public trading have an obligation to make disclosures on their financials and any other material events to the public. And they do that through the SEC filing process. That's all out there. And then what you as an individual do with it is up to you. Enough with the nanny state. Go ahead, Sachs.

0
💬 0

2536.229 - 2538.31 David Sacks

So when's the right time to put a short on this company?

0
💬 0

2539.091 - 2559.738 David Friedberg

By the way, to not invest through advice. The stock is up 40% today. And then there's these reports that came out yesterday on a bunch of very big hedge funds that put very big short positions yesterday on the stock. And it's up 40% today. So we're all going to get margin calls. So this is where you see the same thing that happened last time where... What was that guy's name? The... The capital.

0
💬 0

2559.758 - 2563.519 David Friedberg

Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin.

0
💬 0

2563.539 - 2563.819 David Sacks

Melvin.

0
💬 0

2564.199 - 2567.38 David Friedberg

Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin. Melvin.

0
💬 0

2584.383 - 2594.189 David Sacks

They bid up the stock to levels that realistically it's not worth that much. Disconnected from reality. It basically creates a short squeeze. So the stock flies up.

0
💬 0

2594.609 - 2594.829 David Friedberg

Yeah.

0
💬 0

2595.39 - 2599.712 David Sacks

Then the hedge funds know it's overvalued. So they basically put new shorts on.

0
💬 0

2599.812 - 2600.092 Chamath Palihapitiya

Yeah.

0
💬 0

2600.193 - 2601.553 David Sacks

And then they do the next short squeeze.

0
💬 0

2601.754 - 2619.584 Chamath Palihapitiya

And they'll do something that's even more dangerous, which is they can get synthetically short. So they'll, they'll add leverage to this, using all kinds of esoteric derivatives that other banks on Wall Street will happily sell them. And then when those are disclosed, then the Redditors can just pump it even more, which causes massive margin calls.

0
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2619.604 - 2635.458 Chamath Palihapitiya

So I think, I think the thing that Friedberg, you're saying, though, this is this existential thing that comes back, it's happened in NFTs, it's happened in the dot com bubble, it happened in SPACs, it's happened in crypto. Are we supposed to protect people? And then the question is, who is the we?

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2636.639 - 2655.756 Chamath Palihapitiya

And are you supposed to say, if you're an adult and you can read, then read the disclosures and you're on your own. That's what the SEC says. And that's what the rule of law has been. And so this is going to be an interesting test because instead of an organization, it's going to be a person, in this case, Keith Gill, who will be the face of what happens to the stock.

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2655.796 - 2669.198 Chamath Palihapitiya

Because if a bunch of people all of a sudden plow into this thing, and then it goes to five, It'll be really interesting to see the reaction. Hey, you should have saved us. How could this happen? You know, he dumped this on all of us. And the answer is no, he did not.

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2669.378 - 2672.682 David Friedberg

Where was the government to save our day? Where was the government to protect consumers?

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💬 0

2672.802 - 2674.083 Chamath Palihapitiya

Enough with the nanny state.

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2674.344 - 2677.708 David Friedberg

That's the next cycle of the story. The next cycle of the story is where was the government?

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2678.869 - 2685.552 Chamath Palihapitiya

And you showed how the government protected everybody, which was you showed the revenue and the profits and the margins, which is publicly available.

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2685.752 - 2691.154 David Sacks

And you did it in two minutes. I mean, anybody can look at your analysis and see.

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2691.375 - 2705.621 Chamath Palihapitiya

You didn't even use a sophisticated model. You used probably the calculator app on your freaking Mac to figure out that it was 192 times. No, he did the back of the envelope. No, no, no. I'm sure he used the calculator app. Actually, I have the Casio.

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2706.141 - 2713.864 Chamath Palihapitiya

The whole point is you can figure out that there's no logical justification for this company using one Google search and the calculator app on your Mac.

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2715.085 - 2729.711 David Friedberg

It's on you. I think the question is, should we make all sports betting legal and all online casinos legal? So if you follow this to its natural conclusion, let people do what they want. Why are all of the other gambling industries so tightly regulated? And why do we protect consumers?

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2729.731 - 2749.685 David Sacks

I think there's a big difference. Well, because we need a stock market. We need the ability for companies to go public. It just so happens that you can get this weird effect where some stocks can become meme stocks. But that doesn't mean you want to design the entire... system of securities laws around one or two meme stocks.

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2750.505 - 2775.642 David Sacks

The fact of the matter is that investors are sufficiently protected by robust disclosure requirements that apparently GameStop has followed. All that information is out there. You basically dismantled the company in like two minutes. So anyone watching this show has all the information they need not to buy this stock at 190 times earnings, okay, if they choose to follow that information.

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2776.582 - 2794.332 Chamath Palihapitiya

The other thing that you're saying, which is really important, is you have to remember what the capital markets and the stock market is there for. It's not meant for this. This is a small little cul-de-sac, but the overwhelming majority of the capital markets and the equity markets is to allocate excess capital to good ideas. That's what is usually happening.

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2795.097 - 2813.606 Chamath Palihapitiya

There's a bunch of us that will put a bunch of our money into things because we think it's the right thing to do. And that is the overwhelming majority of what is happening in the stock market every day. And David's right. Every now and then, one of these things randomly comes up. And every period of time, there'll be a few parts of the market that go crazy.

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2814.446 - 2819.649 Chamath Palihapitiya

But the reality is that's not what the overwhelming majority of the actions and that's not why the security is also there.

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2819.709 - 2837.518 David Friedberg

Have you guys seen this guy? His name is Tim Nacky on Instagram. So what this guy did, this guy's incredible. So this guy went out and he basically bet 10 cents in online blackjack because he's legally allowed to do it where he lives. I think he's in Australia or something. Oh, yeah. That's 10 cents for every follower he has on Instagram.

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2837.978 - 2853.808 David Friedberg

So over the last couple of months, he's been racking and racking up the bets. And he ended up doing these $100,000 plus bets because he got over a million followers. He ran this thing up to over a million bucks and he quit. But now he's formed like a blackjack syndicate. So everyone wants to kind of pile in and bet with him.

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2854.248 - 2867.517 David Friedberg

I think that there's this really interesting phenomenon of like social betting. Everyone wants to be in a group together. He's got hundreds of thousands of people that have put money in. This is so great. And then he goes and does this online gambling. Nick, pull the video up. I just sent you. Watch how this guy, and he's so entertaining. He's awesome.

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2867.777 - 2871.539 Jason Calacanis

Oh man, this could be deadly for Saks. Saks didn't know about this.

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2871.639 - 2895.574 Tim Nacky

72 going to Blackjack and betting 10 cents for your Instagram follower. I've got there are 940,000 of your weapons with us now. So a $94,000 bet coming right up. All righty, ladies and gentlemen, we have a $94,000 hand going on the line for the 940,000 of your weapons with us. 90 on the button, 2K. Each of the side bets, this bloke definitely gloves up both hands on the golf course.

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2895.874 - 2907.242 Tim Nacky

Never has a plastic hand stood down such an impact on my life. I'm not healthy. Four is gross. Seven versus six. That might be a double down. What are we doing, Sax?

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2907.402 - 2908.843 David Sacks

Are we doubling down, Sax? What are we doing?

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💬 0

2908.883 - 2909.563 Tim Nacky

I'll take three.

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2909.924 - 2910.664 David Sacks

That's a double down.

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💬 0

2910.984 - 2911.305 Tim Nacky

Double down.

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2911.325 - 2912.746 David Sacks

That's a double down. That's a double down.

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2913.066 - 2913.606 Tim Nacky

Yeah.

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2913.626 - 2914.607 David Sacks

Definitely double down.

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2914.647 - 2916.088 Tim Nacky

God damn you. Go 10 for me here.

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0
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2918.249 - 2919.43 Unknown

We'll take the 818!

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2919.75 - 2922.232 Jason Calacanis

We will take the goddamn 818!

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2922.312 - 2940.004 Unknown

And give it to these punting lords! A glorious day for the 1010 with the 1010 on! Can I get the job done again? That'll do! That's awesome! You little f***ing beauty! I will see you tomorrow, you smug son of a b****!

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2941.002 - 2945.085 Jason Calacanis

Oh my God, this is so great. This guy is so good. Sax, do you know about this?

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2945.505 - 2948.107 David Sacks

That's some serious degeneracy. It looks so fun though.

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💬 0

2948.227 - 2948.628 Jason Calacanis

Look at Sax.

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💬 0

2951.912 - 2953.613 David Friedberg

One hand a day. One hand a day.

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💬 0

2953.773 - 2955.633 David Sacks

There's only one a day? Oh, my God.

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2956.113 - 2972.918 David Friedberg

And every day his follower count goes up. So every day he bets more. And then you're following. And he ran this thing up to a million approximately. Oh, so good. I haven't seen Sax this awake during the pod. You don't get the 10 cents. He keeps it for himself. He started this just by betting his own money. And he would put 10 cents down every day for how many followers he had. Okay.

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2973.018 - 2975.099 David Friedberg

And so he started betting more and more of his own money.

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2975.219 - 2979.34 Chamath Palihapitiya

So now he's got a follower count that he can put on his hands. Is it still all of his money that he's betting?

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2979.62 - 2993.465 David Friedberg

So then as of a few weeks ago, or like two weeks ago, he stopped betting his own money. He took the million off the table. He called it a day and he set up a syndicate. And now people send their own money in and now he's betting the syndicate's money. I love this. And he does one hand a day and he keeps racking this thing up.

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2993.565 - 2998.447 Chamath Palihapitiya

It's just... What happens when he loses? Is there a day where he's lost a lot of money? Oh, dude, you got to watch it.

0
💬 0

2998.747 - 3000.388 David Friedberg

Man, that would be a good losing video. It's so funny.

0
💬 0

3000.488 - 3002.688 Chamath Palihapitiya

I want to see what happens when he loses like a big number.

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3002.708 - 3014.856 David Friedberg

Can we get this guy at the All-In Summit? He plays online blackjack, right? So... There's always like a fake dealer and he has all this hilarious commentary on the fake dealer and what they look like. Sax is texting people to set up an account in a VPN right now.

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3015.236 - 3020.298 Chamath Palihapitiya

I'll be honest with you, this may get me back on Instagram. This is so juicy.

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3020.998 - 3042.024 Jason Calacanis

We should get this guy out to the summit. This guy's got to come to the summit and do a live hand with Mr. Beast. Big shout out. Is he on TikTok or no? I think he only does Insta. Yeah, Tim Nack. I haven't seen Sax listen to Freeburg on this podcast more than he just did. That was incredible. You got Sax's attention. Sax, did you know you could play live online blackjack from your phone?

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3042.505 - 3043.085 Jason Calacanis

Did you know this?

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3043.365 - 3044.606 David Sacks

Did not, did not know that.