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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?

Fri, 17 May 2024

Description

(0:00) Bestie Intros: Recapping Phil Hellmuth's birthday weekend (7:38) OpenAI launches GPT-4o: better, faster, cheaper (29:40) Sacks demos Glue: How AI unlocked his Slack killer (40:12) Friedberg walks through his major breakthrough at Ohalo (1:01:35) Stanley Druckenmiller bets on Argentina and Javier Milei: strategy, roadmap for the US (1:13:54) Jason's bet on Athena, how AI will change company building (1:22:21) Google launches AI summaries in search Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://twitter.com/Jason https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://twitter.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@all_in_tok Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: https://www.pokernews.com/news/2024/05/phil-hellmuth-60th-birthday-bash-las-vegas-45984.htm https://x.com/OpenAI/status/1790130703721521305 https://x.com/OpenAI/status/1790089513387143469 https://crfm.stanford.edu/helm/mmlu/v1.3.0/# https://www.businessinsider.com/inflection-implosion-chatgpt-stall-ai-consumer-chatbot-problem-2024-3 https://www.opencompute.org https://glue.ai https://ragie.ai https://ohalo.com https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/07/cnbc-exclusive-cnbc-transcript-billionaire-investor-stanley-druckenmiller-speaks-with-cnbcs-squawk-box-today.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2024/03/23/summers-inflation-reached-18-in-2022-using-the-governments-previous-formula https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1378034932006592512 https://www.athenawow.com/jcal https://calacanis.substack.com/p/startup-productivity-in-the-age-of https://blog.google/products/search/generative-ai-google-search-may-2024 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEzRZ35urlk https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GOOG https://startuptalky.com/apple-failed-products

Audio
Transcription

0.069 - 22.003 Jason Calacanis

All right, everybody, welcome to your favorite podcast in the world's number one podcast, the all-in podcast. It's episode 1,790. Oh, wait, that's just how it feels. Welcome to episode 179. With me today, of course, is your sultan of science. I don't know if that's a movie background or it's just his favorite vegetables. What's going on there? What's the crop?

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22.223 - 23.064 David Friedberg

That's AI-generated.

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23.786 - 25.027 Jason Calacanis

AI generated crop. Okay.

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25.288 - 28.231 David Friedberg

I'm trying AI backgrounds. I'm going to try it out for a while with different crops.

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28.291 - 40.804 Jason Calacanis

Your fans are going to be crushed that you're not doing deep movie polls with us. Of course, man about town, DC, new products being launched. David Sachs, the rain man. Yeah. How you doing, buddy?

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41.225 - 43.387 David Sacks

Good. Good. Yeah. Good week. Lots going on.

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44.033 - 52.08 Jason Calacanis

Yeah. Yeah, definitely a good week. Chamath Palihapitiya, chairman, dictator. He puts the chairman in dictator.

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52.22 - 63.217 Chamath Palihapitiya

I would like to take this opportunity to wish... My child, happy birthday. I absolutely f***ing love you.

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64.558 - 66.018 David Sacks

Well, now the rest of us look like s***.

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66.118 - 66.859 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, great.

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67.159 - 82.307 David Sacks

I've never done that before. Sax, in your desk, in your desk is a piece of paper with your children's names and their birthdays. You want to pull it out and see? I got three birthdays a year and I've never done one. Let your winners ride.

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82.367 - 83.568 Narrator

Rain Man, David Saxon.

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90.481 - 91.063 Narrator

Love you guys. Bye.

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95.106 - 98.848 Chamath Palihapitiya

No, no, no, but I'm saying it rarely lands on the same day. Today is the day.

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99.068 - 101.209 David Friedberg

Today is the day. Today is the day. Okay, good.

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101.229 - 122.561 Chamath Palihapitiya

Today is the day. Congratulations, child. Oh, congratulations. How old, Chamath? No gender name or any other specifications, folks. We can't tip anybody off. No pronouns. We can't tip anybody off. No pronouns. Yes, absolutely. So how are they experiencing their birthday? This child has experienced a wonderful life, and this child is an incredible person.

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124.022 - 145.997 Chamath Palihapitiya

for whom I have tremendous admiration and love and compassion and hope for the future. All right. And did you order them some chicken fingers? I cannot comment on who this person is. Chicken fingers. Are you talking, of course, about Phil Hellmuth? Your child, Phil Hellmuth. Can we please talk about last weekend's festivities in Vegas? What a disaster he is. Oh, my God.

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146.584 - 148.025 Chamath Palihapitiya

Guys, just so you guys know.

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148.465 - 150.287 David Friedberg

We missed you last weekend. We missed you last weekend.

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150.307 - 151.307 Chamath Palihapitiya

So much fun to make.

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151.327 - 153.269 David Friedberg

We missed you on Saturday night. Saturday night was really fun.

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154.629 - 157.812 Chamath Palihapitiya

I had such a lovely time coming home, to be totally honest with you.

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157.992 - 164.536 David Friedberg

We had a cabana set up on Saturday, played blackjack by the pool. I missed you guys too. I had a FOMO when I saw the videos. It was so fun.

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164.696 - 174.503 Jason Calacanis

Well, you don't have to have too much FOMO because Phil sent the entire group chat to pokernews.com. They did an article on the group chat. Run it twice. Theflop.org.

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176.204 - 199.944 Chamath Palihapitiya

poker dash update oh my god yeah well he kept tweeting and he leaked every single person who's there and the jets and the jet numbers he's like look here's me and elon elon came by for my dinner no no no it was worse than that no it's worth that he said i got to hang out with our guy elon for 10 minutes and 14 seconds he intercepted him at the valet

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202.162 - 202.702 David Sacks

Wait, what?

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204.403 - 209.446 Chamath Palihapitiya

How many minutes? 10 minutes and 14 seconds. He had the exact time, down to the second. Oh, my God.

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209.566 - 216.109 David Sacks

Well, listen, I want to wish Phil Helmuth a happy birthday because I did miss his 60th party. Yeah, it's coming up, actually.

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216.149 - 220.811 Jason Calacanis

The good news is it wasn't actually his birthday. It was Bill Gurley's, so he just hijacked Bill Gurley's birthday.

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221.326 - 232.258 David Friedberg

I also got to enjoy for my first time ever the experience of Baccarat, which I've decided is the most degen game on earth. It's literally the most, you just flip a coin. More than craps.

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232.559 - 233.319 Chamath Palihapitiya

It's flipping coins.

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233.36 - 251.313 David Friedberg

Well, craps is really, there's a style. Craps, you make betting decisions. All you do in Baccarat is you say bank or player, and then you freak yourself out about how you flip the cards. And the smartest people I know on earth are all sitting around this table at two or three in the morning saying, turn this corner this way. No, no, no, no, no. Turn it this way. Turn it this way. There's two dots.

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251.653 - 255.675 David Friedberg

And they're debating the right way to flip a card over. That's true.

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256.035 - 260.017 Chamath Palihapitiya

No, the Baccarat sweat is the most incredible performative act ever. In the casino.

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260.478 - 269.122 David Sacks

It's the weirdest thing. Yeah, you're right. Everyone's got their own little technique about how they bend the card. It's all destroyed by the end of the deck. They get thrown up.

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269.262 - 271.823 Jason Calacanis

I go lengthwise. I go like this and I try to see.

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271.843 - 279.668 Chamath Palihapitiya

Oh, like you're curling your mustache like an evil villain? It's the evil villain. And then you call it, oh my God, no spotter. If you see it, no spotter.

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279.708 - 286.752 David Friedberg

We're two across. So great. And then you get to decide whether the bank turns over their cards and when they turn them over.

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286.992 - 289.314 Chamath Palihapitiya

Then you lose a small house and then you're like, oh, let's try it again.

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289.334 - 296.999 David Friedberg

Yeah, you're convincing yourself that you have all this control and ways to change the outcome. You're literally flipping a card. It's high card. It's basically a high card. That's all it is.

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297.019 - 313.65 David Sacks

It's a high card. It's even worse than that. You're basically sitting down at the casino's table and then they tell you whether you've won or lost. And in order to convince yourself that that's not what's going on, you have to play with the card. But really, they just tell you you either win or lose. Let me tell you a story.

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313.67 - 330.202 David Friedberg

And I'm watching the smartest guys we know staring at the window at the little machine that tells you whether bank or player won. And they're studying it, rubbing their chin, doing an analysis. It's been four reds. It's got to go black. Hellview's like, I'm calling it now. Bank, bank, player, player, player. And all the guys are like, let's do it.

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330.222 - 332.203 David Friedberg

And then everyone's like, heads, heads, tails, tails.

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332.363 - 361.606 Chamath Palihapitiya

So Helmuth asked us to play in the high stakes poker game on PokerGo. So it was me, Helmuth, Stanley, Sammy, House, and then Jen Tilly and Nick Airball and Roble. So most of the guys from the House game plus Jen Tilly and Nick Airball. Jennifer Tilly is amazing. What a great human and actress. Well, listen to this hand. literally the second hand of the actual poker game. Gentilly

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363.627 - 392.629 Chamath Palihapitiya

is in the big blind. No, sorry, she's under the gun. She raises. Hausenbold three bets. It comes all the way around to me on the button. I look and I have pocket kings. I ship the whole cheeseburger. Comes back to Tilly. She ships. House ships. Listen to these hands. Jen Tilly has aces. Jeff Hausenbold has kings. I have kings. Oh, my God. I've never seen a cooler hand like this in my life.

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392.669 - 398.291 Chamath Palihapitiya

We'll all be out. In the second hand of the game. Anyways. Wow. Don't worry, guys.

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398.351 - 399.151 Jason Calacanis

I came back and I won.

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399.171 - 402.452 Chamath Palihapitiya

Chantilly. She tripled up.

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403.033 - 407.274 Jason Calacanis

She triples up and then into lockdown mode. The first time I ever played with her, I showed up to this game.

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407.374 - 410.976 Chamath Palihapitiya

Then I stacked her right. Anyways, I don't want to reveal the game, but it was wonderful, this one.

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412.563 - 430.005 Jason Calacanis

I show up at a mutual friend of ours game, and there's a beautiful Porsche or something in the driveway. It's a really notable car. And I notice on the license plate, it says D-Gen. but it's spelled with a J. And I'm like, oh, degenerate. What a great license plate. I wonder whose that is. I go, it's Jennifer Tilling. She is so cool.

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430.645 - 433.806 Chamath Palihapitiya

She's very charming. Great actress. Very charming. Great actress.

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433.846 - 438.248 David Friedberg

What was the movie she was in? Bound. Bound. That's what it was. Yeah.

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438.268 - 440.389 Jason Calacanis

You don't have to ask me twice. Yeah, exactly.

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440.509 - 441.269 David Friedberg

That is a tour de force.

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441.469 - 447.533 Jason Calacanis

What a great gangster film. Yeah. With Gina Gershwin. Gina Gershon. That film.

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447.553 - 448.794 David Friedberg

Oh, my God.

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449.054 - 478.622 Jason Calacanis

That film. Oh, my God. Well, let's not get canceled here. It is quite a film. All right. Speaking of action. Big week. The AI industrial complex is dominating. Our docket here, apologies to Biden, Ukraine, and Nikki Haley, but we got to go AI right now. Open AI, launch chat, GPT 4.0. Monday, three days after Samwise came on all in as a programming note, and we'll go to Freiburg about this.

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479.554 - 496.233 Jason Calacanis

We probably made a bit of a strategical or tactical error in not postponing his appearance. In fairness, Freeberg, Samwise did tell us. Originally, he was coming on to talk about those things, but then it got pushed back. Anything you want to add to that as a programming note? Because people are wondering.

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496.813 - 513.881 David Friedberg

What happened, I've been talking with Sam for a while. A year. About coming on the show. And every time I see him, we're like, hey, you should come on the show. He's like, I want to come on the show. Okay, let's find a date. We never got a date that worked. I saw him in March and he said, hey, I want to come on the show. I said, okay, well, come on. Let me know when it works.

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513.981 - 525.327 David Friedberg

And a couple of weeks later, he's like, what about this date in May? And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. We can make that work. He's like, well, I've got a big announcement we're going to be doing. And I was like, perfect. Come on the show. That sounds great.

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526.047 - 542.71 David Friedberg

And then the night before, he asked me, he told me, he texted me, he's like, hey, we're actually not going to have this announcement happen tomorrow. It's going to be delayed. He didn't tell me how long. And I'm like, well, is it GPT-5? He's like, no, it's not GPT-5. And I was like, okay, well, you know, come on the show anyway.

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542.73 - 556.853 David Friedberg

Because he didn't tell me when he's doing the announcement or when it's being pushed to. So it didn't seem like that big a deal. And I thought we were just going to be able to have a good chat anyway. So it's really unfortunate, I think, the fact that the announcement happened two days after and he had to stay quiet about it during our interview. But that's the story.

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556.873 - 570 David Friedberg

I think in the future, if someone says they've got a big announcement to do, we should probably push them if they have to delay or something like that. Don't beat yourself up. But I don't think we're going to be doing a lot of these interviews anyway. I think people clearly don't love them and it's better for us to just kind of hang out and talk. Yeah.

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572.001 - 583.772 David Sacks

I think if we had just gotten Sam on the day after the launch of GPT-4 Omni, as opposed to, what is it, three days before, he could have talked much more freely about it and it would have been interesting.

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584.613 - 587.375 David Friedberg

It was supposed to happen same day, so it's unfortunate this all worked out this way.

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587.395 - 607.069 Jason Calacanis

The other little trick is to say you can tell us under embargo. But my understanding is they were still doing the videos over the weekend. So I think those videos and stuff, they were still figuring them out. And so yeah, lesson learned. In terms of the interviews on the show, just to recap for people, we've done a dozen. Half of them have been presidential candidates.

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607.509 - 621.311 Jason Calacanis

Sometimes they break out, sometimes they don't. But we follow our interest and our passion here on the pod, it's got to be interesting for us too. So if we think this person's going to be interesting, we do it. And yeah, we understand you miss a news subject, but yeah, it is what it is.

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621.771 - 642.962 Chamath Palihapitiya

And to your point, a lot of the people that come on and increasingly a lot of people ask to come on because they know we're not journalists. And so for all of those folks that expect us to be journalists. That's not what we are. We're for entrepreneurs. We're for business people. We're for friends. We're for technologists. We're for curious people. We're for poker players.

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644.064 - 665.269 Chamath Palihapitiya

But we're not for journalists. And so we're going to ask whatever we feel like asking. Sometimes those things will touch a chord because it's what you wanted to have asked. And sometimes we won't go to a place whether we didn't have time to or whether we forgot or whether we chose not to. And I think it's important to have that disclaimer. Like we have day jobs and this is what we do

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666.943 - 673.687 Chamath Palihapitiya

To coalesce a bunch of information in the way that we're thinking about the world. So we are not journalists. So please don't have that expectation.

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673.727 - 691.863 David Sacks

I think what that means is that if the guest doesn't want to talk about something, we're not going to start peppering him with gotcha questions and things like that. I appeared at a conference a couple of days ago to promote glue, which we'll get to. And the first half of the conversation was like a normal conversation about what we were launching.

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691.883 - 707.779 David Sacks

And then the second half was basically the reporter peppering me with fastball questions, which is fine. I knew what I was signing up for. It's a totally different style. It's a totally different style than coming on the pod and just having a normal conversation. But it's not really our job to make somebody open up if they don't want to talk.

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708.239 - 712.123 Jason Calacanis

What was the spiciest question, Sax? What was the fastball? Anything come close to your head? Yeah.

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713.416 - 724.239 David Sacks

No, I mean, it's not worth really getting into. You can watch it. Yeah, I was just curious. Look, I kind of like sometimes when reporters pitch me fastballs because, yeah, you can strike out or you can hit it out of the park when they do that.

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724.399 - 747.199 Jason Calacanis

That's an important part here. I think, you know, as a former editor-in-chief journalist myself, I sometimes like to ask, I would say, a challenging question in a respectful way. I did that, for example, with Vake, you know, just clarifying his thoughts on trans and gay rights. wasn't disrespectful, was thoughtful, Would you consider it spicy or hardcore? I don't think it was hardcore.

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747.459 - 748.379 Jason Calacanis

He likes to talk about it.

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748.679 - 752.601 Chamath Palihapitiya

No, but that's because you asked it from a position of curiosity. You weren't trying to catch the guy.

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752.982 - 755.243 Jason Calacanis

No. You see the difference? I'm actually interested in his opinion.

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755.303 - 766.649 Chamath Palihapitiya

This is my point. That's why it comes out differently. And that's why I think people enjoy these conversations. And sometimes we don't get to the other kind of answer because I'm not interested in trying to gotcha somebody that's working hard.

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767.129 - 784.978 Jason Calacanis

I always have the same conditions when I do interviews, which is I don't clear questions and I don't let people edit it. But, you know. Everybody's got a different view on how to do interviews and feel a difference. If you like it, you like it. If you like Lex Friedman's version or Tim Ferriss's version, or you prefer, you know, Fox or CNN, go watch those interviews there.

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785.078 - 805.921 Jason Calacanis

You can have a whole range of different interviews and interview styles available to you in the media landscape. We are but one. Sam Weiss mentioned on the pod last week that the next big model might not be called GPT-5. So on Monday, they launched GPT-4.0. The O stands for Omni. It's everything you love about tech. It's faster, it's cheaper, it's better.

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806.502 - 824.92 Jason Calacanis

But from my perspective, the real show was the massive amount of progress they made on the UI UX. The O stands for Omni, as in Omnivore. It takes in audio, text, images, even your desktop and video from your camera to inform what it's doing. We can consider it like 360 degree AI.

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825.661 - 830.925 Jason Calacanis

Producer Nick will show a couple of videos while I describe them here before we go to the besties for the reaction to the announcement.

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831.485 - 851.286 Jason Calacanis

first, they made great progress in solving the CB problem we mentioned last week, that's where like when you use Siri or any of these tools, you say, you know, hey, jet GPT, what's two plus two over and you have to wait and then if you talk over each other, it breaks. They now have that working much smoother. They did an example of counting where they said speed up, slow down.

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851.346 - 853.187 Jason Calacanis

They did a translator that worked really well.

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853.927 - 867.71 GPT-4o

I would like you to function as a translator. I have a friend here who only speaks Italian and I only speak English. And every time you hear English, I want you to translate it to Italian. And if you hear Italian, I want you to translate it back to English. Is that good? Perfect.

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870.871 - 873.731 Person A

Mark, I wonder if whales could talk, what would they say?

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877.017 - 880.96 Person B

Mike, she wonders if whales could talk, what would they tell us?

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882.241 - 884.603 GPT-4o

They might ask, how do we solve linear equations?

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886.144 - 886.684 Person B

Certainly, yes.

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898.238 - 898.518 GPT-4o

Great.

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898.718 - 923.127 Jason Calacanis

Looks like it works. I think Duolingo stock took a hit during that. Most impressive, to me at least, and also I had Sandeep Madra on my other podcast and we talked about it, was their desktop and iOS app. What this app does is fascinating. It watches your desktop on your Macintosh or on your iPad or iPhone, and it does everything. things like adaptive learning.

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923.147 - 939.194 Jason Calacanis

Here's a clip of Sal Khan from Khan Academy and his son basically using a drawing app to do some arithmetic or geometry. And it does adaptive learning and basically makes a personal coach because the app is watching his son try to solve a problem.

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939.914 - 954.403 Sal Khan

I'm here with my son, and I'd love you to tutor him on this math problem, but don't give him the answer. You can ask questions and nudge him in the right direction, but I really want to make sure he understands it himself. And he's here in the room, so you can talk to him directly.

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954.844 - 964.99 GPT-4o

Can you first identify which sides of the triangle are the opposite, adjacent, and hypotenuse relative to angle alpha?

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966.061 - 970.985 Sal Khan's Son

All right, so I'm pretty sure this is the angle alpha right here, right?

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971.625 - 981.152 GPT-4o

Correct. Now, looking at the triangle, which side do you think is the hypotenuse? Remember the hypotenuse?

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981.472 - 988.197 Sal Khan's Son

I'm not totally sure. I think it might be this one, but I really am not sure. This side AC?

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989.438 - 1004.622 GPT-4o

You're close. Actually, side AC is called the adjacent side to the angle alpha. The hypotenuse is the longest side of a right triangle and is directly opposite the right angle. Can you find which one is the hypotenuse?

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1005.202 - 1012.644 Sal Khan's Son

Oh, okay, I see. So I think the hypotenuse is this really long side from A to B. Would that be correct?

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1013.824 - 1015.225 GPT-4o

Exactly. Well done.

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1016.004 - 1034.257 Jason Calacanis

It can also participate in Zoom calls, explain charts, all that great stuff. And so it's going to be your guide on the side. It's going to be a present personality while you're using your apps. It's really impressive, I have to say. So I guess let's start, Freeberg, with your takeaways on all of these innovations that we saw.

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1034.724 - 1062.271 David Friedberg

I think it's become quite apparent that there's an evolution underway in model architecture. And I think you may remember, we talked about this briefly with Sam last week, but we're moving away from these very big, bulky models that are released every couple of months or quarters and cost a lot of money to rebuild every time they get re-released towards a system of models.

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1063.325 - 1085.562 David Friedberg

So this multimodal system basically leverages several models at once that work together or that are linked together to respond to the inputs and to provide some generative output. And that those individual models themselves can be continuously tuned and or continuously updated. So rather than have, you know, hey, there's this big new release that just happened.

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1085.582 - 1101.37 David Friedberg

This new model just got trained, cost $10 million to train it. It's been pushed. These models can be upgraded with tuning, with upgrade features, and then linked together with other new smaller models that are perhaps specialized for specific tasks like doing mathematics or rendering an image or rendering a movie.

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1102.35 - 1126.382 David Friedberg

And so I think what we're going to see is soon more of an obfuscation of the individual models and more of this general service type approach where the updates are happening in a more continuous fashion. I think this is the first step of OpenAI taking that architectural approach with GPT-4.0. And what's behind the curtains, we don't know. We don't know how many models are there.

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1126.422 - 1145.691 David Friedberg

We don't know how frequently they're being changed, whether they're being changed through actually upgrading the parameters or whether they're being fine tuned. And so this seems to be pretty obvious. If you look at this link, one of the criticisms that initially came out when they released GPT-4.0 was that there was some performance degradation.

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1146.651 - 1162.179 David Friedberg

And Stanford actually runs this massive multitask language understanding assessment. And they publish it, I think, daily or pretty frequently on how all the models perform. And you can see the scorecard here that GPT-4.0 actually outperforms GPT-4.

0
💬 0

1162.9 - 1174.606 David Friedberg

And so this goes counter to some of the narrative that in order to get some of the performance improvements and speed improvements they got in 4.0, that they actually made the model worse. And it seems actually the opposite is true, that the model's gotten slightly better. It still underperforms Cloud3.

0
💬 0

1175.959 - 1184.387 David Friedberg

Opus, which you can see here ranks top of these charts, but there's lots of different charts, all the companies published on charts, they all claim that they're better than everyone else. But I like Stanford because it's independent.

0
💬 0

1184.547 - 1196.754 Jason Calacanis

Chamath, any thoughts after seeing it and in combination with our interview, do you think ChatGPT is running away with the consumer experience? Or do you think this is like neck and neck with some of the other players?

0
💬 0

1197.354 - 1219.184 Chamath Palihapitiya

Not to tell tales out of school, but somebody that we all know in our group chat posted something about the fact that the consumer growth had stalled. I don't know how they knew that, that maybe they got some data or maybe they're an investor. You guys know what I'm talking about. And they said that they're trying to reinvigorate growth into the consumer app at OpenAI.

0
💬 0

1219.484 - 1222.585 Jason Calacanis

Any insights as to why it might be plateauing in your perspective?

0
💬 0

1223.88 - 1250.187 Chamath Palihapitiya

I wrote this in my annual letter, but there are these phases of growth. And when you look at social networks as a perfect example, Friendster was magical when it was first created, right? And then you had MySpace that just ran circles around them because Friendster didn't really invest the money and the quality that it took to create a moat. And then MySpace really wasn't able to compete.

0
💬 0

1250.227 - 1265.767 Chamath Palihapitiya

So we were, you know, Facebook, we were the eighth or ninth when we showed up on the scene and we ran circles around everybody. I think what it means is that there are these phases of product development which exist in many markets. This market, I think, is going through the same thing.

0
💬 0

1266.128 - 1285.506 Chamath Palihapitiya

And right now, we're in the first, what I would call primordial ooze phase, which is everybody's kind of like running around like a chicken with their heads cut off. There's all these core basic capabilities that are still so magical when you see them. But we all know that five and 10 years from now, these things will be table stakes, right? And what Freeberg just showed is a table that

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1286.388 - 1309.575 Chamath Palihapitiya

of many companies and many trillions of market cap, all effectively running to the same destination. So I think where we are is probably within two years of where the basic building blocks are standardized. And then I think the real businesses get built. So I will maintain my perspective here, which is the quote unquote Facebook of AI has yet to be created.

0
💬 0

1310.194 - 1331.222 Jason Calacanis

Okay, and here it is, ChatGPT web visits, as you can see, have plateaued. This data is similar web. I would agree with you, Jamath. It seems like the use cases and the looky-loos who were just trying the software, because they heard about it, They've gone away, and then we have to find actual use cases. Sacks, I'm wondering.

0
💬 0

1331.522 - 1336.567 Chamath Palihapitiya

But our friend Jason, just to kind of complete the thought, said something about the premium conversion, right? That's what he said. I don't know how he knows that.

0
💬 0

1336.587 - 1359.126 Jason Calacanis

Yes, paid, paid version. Well, yeah, so to be clear, paid versus free. And then what Sam said on the podcast last week was, it seems like whenever they come out with something new, the old stuff becomes free. In my talk with Sonny this week, he mentioned that these new models are so much more efficient that you actually can throw the old model in the garbage. Garbage. Because it's so inefficient.

0
💬 0

1359.227 - 1383.712 Jason Calacanis

And these are now becoming about 90% cheaper every year, which means every two years, these things are gonna be 99% cheaper and better. Yep, yep. And it might be that OpenAI SACS on a strategic level is going to make all this free or close to free and maybe just charge for multiplayer version. That seems to be where it's heading. You don't have to log in to use 3.5. You don't have to log in

0
💬 0

1384.332 - 1400.628 Jason Calacanis

to use Google service? No, you do have to log in still on Google services, but I think these are going to just be free. So on a product basis, what are your thoughts? And then maybe you could talk about free to pay. Do you think everybody in the world is going to pay 20, 30, 40 bucks, 500 a year, 200 a year to have one of these? Or are they just going to all be free?

0
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1401.462 - 1418.977 David Sacks

Well, I think you're assuming there that the long-term business model of OpenAI is in B2C subscriptions. And I think that's probably the least attractive business model they have available to them. It's sort of the first one and the most obvious one because they put out ChatGPT and then it's pretty easy just to roll out a premium version.

0
💬 0

1419.737 - 1435.649 David Sacks

But in my experience, B2C subscriptions, it's just not a very attractive business model because consumers just aren't willing to pay a lot and they have high churn rates. And there's no possibility of expansion, really. So I suspect they're going to move in more of a B2B direction over time because that's where the real money is.

0
💬 0

1436.57 - 1457.427 David Sacks

And probably the way they do that is by monetizing all the apps that are built on top of it. And I think that in that sense, GPT-4.0 is a really important innovation. By the way, the O stands for Omni, which I think stands for Omnichannel. I think you may have said Omnivore, which is kind of funny too.

0
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1457.467 - 1469.635 Jason Calacanis

It's Omni, which means all the different media types currently coming in, right? That's the difference. It's not like you just give it an image or give it a video. It's absorbing all those at the same time in parallel, I believe.

0
💬 0

1469.755 - 1486.226 David Sacks

That's right. So there's three big innovations with this model, right? So one is Omni-channel, which means text, audio, video, and images. Second, it's more conversational, like it understands the tone of people talking and understands sort of sentiment in a way it didn't before.

0
💬 0

1486.927 - 1501.21 David Sacks

And then the third thing, which is really important, is that it's just much faster and more performant than the previous version, GPT-4 Turbo. In the speed test, they say it's twice as fast. We've played with it at Glue. We can talk about that in a minute. And it feels 10 times as fast. It is much faster.

0
💬 0

1501.871 - 1521.163 David Sacks

But it's the combination of all three of these things that really makes some magical experiences possible. Because when you increase the speed of processing, you can now actually have conversations with it in a much more natural way. Before... The models were just too slow, so there'd be a long delay after every prompt.

0
💬 0

1521.903 - 1539.932 David Sacks

So now, like you showed, it can do things like you point the camera at a blackboard or something with math equations on it, and it can walk you through how to solve that problem. Or two people can be talking and it does real-time translation. There's that old saying that every Star Trek technology eventually becomes true.

0
💬 0

1540.292 - 1560.19 David Sacks

They've just basically invented the whole natural language, real-time universal translator. Yeah. So anyway, so those are some interesting use cases. But I just think they're going to be able to unleash a whole lot of new applications. And if they're metering the usage of the models and providing the best dev tools, I think there is a business model there.

0
💬 0

1560.571 - 1571.532 Jason Calacanis

This thing is moving so fast. They're in like Leonardo DiCaprio mode. Every two years, they throw the old model away. Okay. Let's keep... Thank you. Sacks.

0
💬 0

1571.552 - 1576.335 Jason Calacanis

Is this thing on? Did you write that ahead of time? I was in the moment.

0
💬 0

1576.636 - 1598.777 David Sacks

That was good. Just one point on that is there are a whole bunch of startups out there that were creating virtual customer support agents. And they've been spending the last couple of years working on trying to make those... agents more conversational, quicker, more responsive, I think their product roadmaps just became obsolete.

0
💬 0

1599.278 - 1621.522 David Sacks

Now, that's not to say there isn't more work for them to do in workflow in terms of integrating the AI with customer support tools and doing that last mile of customizing the model for the vertical specific problems of customer support. But my guess is that Hundreds of millions of dollars of R&D just went out the window.

0
💬 0

1622.183 - 1629.408 David Sacks

And probably this is the best time to be creating a customer support agent company. If you're doing it two years ago, five years ago, your work has just been obsoleted.

0
💬 0

1629.609 - 1642.757 Jason Calacanis

Well, I mean, that is the thing of this pace. You used to have to throw away client-server stuff or... whatever, you had a web-based thing, you get an app out, you throw away some of the old code. But this is like every 18 months, your work has been replaced.

0
💬 0

1642.897 - 1656.145 David Sacks

If you're an app developer, the key thing to understand is where does model innovation end and your innovation begin? Because if you get that wrong, you'll end up doing a bunch of stuff that the model will just obsolete in a few months.

0
💬 0

1656.165 - 1671.517 Chamath Palihapitiya

I think you're totally right. I think that's such a really important observation. That's why I think the incentive for these folks is going to be to push this stuff into the open source. Because if you solve a problem that's operationally necessary for your business, but it isn't the core part of your business,

0
💬 0

1673.092 - 1691.987 Chamath Palihapitiya

What incentive do you have to really keep investing in this for the next five and 10 years to improve it? You're much better off like Klarna, for example, right? We talked about the amazing improvement and savings that Klarna had by improving customer support. Release it in the open source, guys. Let the rest of the community take it over so that it's available to everybody else.

0
💬 0

1692.227 - 1715.69 Chamath Palihapitiya

Otherwise, you're going to be stuck supporting it. And then if and when you ever wanted to switch out a model... GPT-4.0, 4 to 4.0 to Claude to Lama, it's going to be near impossible and it's going to be costly. So I also think, Sax, the incentive to just push towards open source in this market, if you will, is so much more meaningful than any other market. Yeah.

0
💬 0

1715.99 - 1725.675 Jason Calacanis

I mean, listen, you were there when I think you were there at Facebook when they did the open compute project and they just were like, sorry, guys, talk about talk about torching an entire market.

0
💬 0

1726.395 - 1742.766 Chamath Palihapitiya

Explain what it is. So there was this moment where when you were trying to build data centers, you'd have these like one you rack mounted kind of like machines that you used. And what Facebook observed was there was only a handful of companies that provided it. And so it was unnecessarily expensive.

0
💬 0

1742.926 - 1763.997 Chamath Palihapitiya

And so Facebook just designed their own and then released the specs online, just kind of said, here it is. And they went to these Taiwanese manufacturers and other folks and said, please make these for your cost plus a few bucks. And it was revolutionary in that market because it allowed this open platform to sort of embrace this very critical element that everybody needs.

0
💬 0

1764.797 - 1778.242 Chamath Palihapitiya

And I think there's going to be a lot of these examples inside of AI because the costs are so extreme, so much more than just building a data center for a traditional web app, that the incentives to do it are just so meaningful.

0
💬 0

1779.335 - 1797.415 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, and I just showed it on the screen. Sax, you've actually been dancing along this line. Last night, I was using your new Slack killer or co-exister. I'm not sure. It feels like a Slack killer to me because I'm moving my company to it on... Over the weekend, we're moving to Glue. Nice. And you and I were doing some very... I may need to wet my beak on this one.

0
💬 0

1798.567 - 1799.448 David Sacks

We want you to wet your beak.

0
💬 0

1799.848 - 1806.072 Jason Calacanis

It feels like a hundred bagger to me. I'm in. It is a lot killer. That's the way we're thinking about it.

0
💬 0

1806.152 - 1809.695 Chamath Palihapitiya

It feels killer-esque. J. Cal, can you do that again in Christopher Walken voice, please?

0
💬 0

1810.535 - 1825.005 Jason Calacanis

I need to wet my beak. It feels like a hundred X sliding 500. Wow. Sacks, tell me about product decisions. Where does the AI end? And your product begins.

0
💬 0

1825.854 - 1847.359 David Sacks

Yeah, well, it's a good point. I mean, I think where the AI ends, we want to use the most powerful AI models possible, and we want to focus on enterprise chat. So you could think of us as, for sure, a Slack killer or Slack competitor. It says that Slack wasn't built for the AI era. Glue is AI native. What does that mean? No channels. You know, I showed this to Chamath.

0
💬 0

1847.379 - 1863.192 David Sacks

The first thing he said is, you had me at no channels, right? People are so sick of channels, you have to keep up with all these hundreds and hundreds of channels. And the real problem with channels is there's one thread in a channel that you want to see. In order to see it, you have to join the whole channel, and now you're getting all this noise. People just want the threads.

0
💬 0

1863.672 - 1884.344 David Sacks

So if you look at what's the chat model inside of ChatGPT, it's just threads, right? You... create a topic-based thread in ChatGPT. The AI comes up with a name for it, puts it in the sidebar. And then if you want to talk about something else, you create a new chat. That's exactly the way that Glue works. It's just multiplayer. You just put the groups and individuals you want on the thread.

0
💬 0

1884.384 - 1898.813 David Sacks

Let me just show you real quick. Here's my Glue here. And you can see that in the sidebar, I've got all the threads that I've been involved in. And like I said, you can address them to multiple people or groups. And then you've got the chat here. Now, we've also fully integrated AI.

0
💬 0

1899.133 - 1920.28 David Sacks

And so Nick, who's our producer, just in this thread said, at Glue AI, what countries does SACS talk about most in episodes? Episodes is a group we created to be the repository of all of the transcripts of our episodes. And so Lou did a search and it said David Sachs frequently discusses Ukraine. What? The most. Yeah. Really?

0
💬 0

1920.46 - 1938.898 David Sacks

So then Nick said, be more specific about Sachs stance on Ukraine-Russia war. Oh, boy. And it's going to overload the server. Well, it said here, David Sachs has articulated a nuanced and critical perspective on the Ukraine-Russia war across various episodes of the All In pod. Here are some key points encapsulating his stance. And it, like, nailed it.

0
💬 0

1938.978 - 1959.109 David Sacks

It talked about prevention through diplomacy, opposition to NATO expansion, humanitarian concerns, skepticism of military intervention, peace deal proposal. You know, I'll copy and paste this onto Twitter X later today. But the point is, it, like, nailed it across all these different episodes. And then, this is a feature of GLOOW, It provided sources.

0
💬 0

1959.309 - 1976.399 David Sacks

So it cites where it got all the information from. So imagine, you know, we're doing this for the all-in pod, but you could imagine that instead of it being transcripts of a podcast, it could be your work documents. You now have in your main chat the ability just to ask, hey, at Glue.ai,

0
💬 0

1977.319 - 1995.921 David Sacks

Remind me where we left that project or tell me who the expert is on this subject matter or who's contributed the most to this project. I've actually figured out using Glue AI who's contributed the most deal flow at Kraft. It's pretty amazing. Now, let me show you like some of the bonuses. What's the answer? I'm not going to say here. I think it's Brian.

0
💬 0

1995.961 - 1996.882 Jason Calacanis

Brian's my guy.

0
💬 0

1997.677 - 1999.198 Chamath Palihapitiya

Brian Ryan is my guy.

0
💬 0

1999.418 - 2005.922 Jason Calacanis

I want to hire Brian. If I got to get Sachs, I go Daniel and Brian. Boom, boom, boom. That's how I get Sachs on the line. Okay, you take Daniel.

0
💬 0

2005.942 - 2009.725 Chamath Palihapitiya

I'll hire Brian. I would reconstitute Kraft.

0
💬 0

2010.005 - 2015.408 David Sacks

We'll call it Kraft. All right, look, let me show you a couple.

0
💬 0

2015.648 - 2024.013 Jason Calacanis

Hold on a second. Sachs, I just looked at the chat GPT-4 Omni server, and when you did that query, it actually rolled its eyes. Keep going.

0
💬 0

2024.554 - 2045.924 David Sacks

Okay. So we talked about how ChatGPT 4.0 understands sentiment in conversations, and I think this is a really good example. So Evan, who's my co-founder at Glue, was just testing this for us, and he asked, what is each bestie's personality type based on conversations and episodes? First of all, it figured out who the besties are. We didn't program that.

0
💬 0

2046.064 - 2059.98 David Sacks

It just figured it out on its own, which is pretty impressive. Here's what it said about each bestie's personality. It says, Jason Calacanis, role, the moderator and entertainer, personality traits, charismatic, humorous, lively, and the glue of the group.

0
💬 0

2060.381 - 2060.641 Jason Calacanis

Say more.

0
💬 0

2061.542 - 2077.695 David Sacks

Often prays for his ability to make the podcast entertaining and keep the conversation flowing. Jason's energy and ability to bring humor into discussions are key elements that define his role in the podcast. Comments he's acknowledged for his role in bringing the group together. Chamath Palihapitiya, the visionary and hustler. Personality traits, insightful, driven, persistent.

0
💬 0

2077.995 - 2093.569 David Sacks

Chamath's relentless drive and ability to hustle are admired by his peers, making him a core part of the podcast and intellectual discussions. I'll skip me, but does Freeberg, the pragmatic scientist and realist. Pragmatic, methodical, and a bit reserved. Oh. Freeberg's often the voice of reason, bringing a scientific and realistic perspective to the discussion.

0
💬 0

2094.21 - 2108.719 David Sacks

He focuses on analysis, logical reasoning. And then it cites where it got this from. And it says here, overall, the dynamic between the four besties creates a well-rounded and engaging podcast with each member bringing their unique strengths and personality traits to the table. I think that's pretty incredible.

0
💬 0

2108.879 - 2117.691 Jason Calacanis

How woke is this? Have you put any rails on it, or is this just pure ChatGPT 4.0 combined with the data?

0
💬 0

2118.232 - 2142.772 David Sacks

Yeah, so what we're doing here is we're wrapping ChatGPT 4.0 with... glue features that we've implemented to get the most out of the conversation there's things we have to do to scope the the prompt and then we're using a retrieval augmented generation service called raggy which does rag as a service that basically slurps in our transcripts and makes them accessible to the ai

0
💬 0

2143.613 - 2149.357 David Sacks

So that's basically the stack that we're using. But as the models get better and better, glue just gets better and better. Again, we just want to ride the wave.

0
💬 0

2149.377 - 2174.337 Chamath Palihapitiya

Can I just make a comment on this? It's just so clean. JCal was the key for me in abandoning Slack. He told me two or three years ago, he called me and he said, I have, you can tell me the exact channels. I eliminated some channels that were random. There was like two or three channels that you banned that your Slack instance wasn't allowed to have. And I was like, this is genius.

0
💬 0

2174.397 - 2190.497 Chamath Palihapitiya

And I went in and I was like, all of our companies should just eliminate these channels. And we could only get like 20% or 30% compliance. But it really started to turn me off Slack because I would get caught in these threads that were just so totally useless. And I thought, why aren't people working?

0
💬 0

2190.977 - 2200 Chamath Palihapitiya

And this is really great because you cannot blather on about nonsense in Glue, which I find really useful. Well, this is what happens when Slack- We use it at 80, 90, just so you know.

0
💬 0

2200.181 - 2210.105 Jason Calacanis

So we were the- When you get into Slack too much, people start to think Slack is the job. And replying to Slacks and having conversations is the job when there's actually a job to be done.

0
💬 0

2210.265 - 2211.125 Chamath Palihapitiya

There's a job to be done.

0
💬 0

2211.385 - 2237.151 Jason Calacanis

Yeah, and so it's important. And what I liked about this implementation facts was it's like the ability to make a feed or a data source inside of your communication platform. So the fact that you imported all of the episodes and the transcripts is great. But what I want is like our HubSpot or our CellCRM. I want our Zendesk. I want our LinkedIn jobs and our LinkedIn job applications.

0
💬 0

2237.211 - 2262.561 Jason Calacanis

I want our Notion. I want our Coda. to each have the ability. And when I was using it last night, what you do is you use the at symbol to evoke and to summon in a way. It's like summoning Beetlejuice. So you summon your AI, but then you tell it what data set you want to go after. So you say, you know, at AI, let's talk about, I don't know, How do you manage your deal flow at Kraft?

0
💬 0

2262.601 - 2265.865 Jason Calacanis

Do you use software like CRM software to manage deals? Brian, Daniel.

0
💬 0

2265.885 - 2284.305 David Sacks

We just do it all in Glue. But we do it all in Glue, so it's already right there. But you're right. So the first thing that Glue AI has access to is all of your chat history, which is amazing because you get like... Then we can look at all your attachments. And we've got, I think, six integrations at launch. There'll be more. So yeah, all of your enterprise data will be there.

0
💬 0

2284.705 - 2296.693 David Sacks

In the short term, you're right. You have to summon the repository by app mentioning because the AI needs a little bit of help of where to look. But in the future, it's going to figure it out on its own. So it's just going to become more and more seamless. But it'll insert itself.

0
💬 0

2296.773 - 2303.398 Jason Calacanis

So we have a discussion about sales. And then you might have a sales bot that says, hey, by the way, nobody's called this client in three months.

0
💬 0

2303.918 - 2323.068 David Sacks

Well, that's where I want to go with it is I call that promptless. which is I want the AI just to chime in when it determines that it has relevant information and can help the team, even if it hasn't been summoned yet. But we need some model improvement for that, frankly. I mean, we'll be able to get there by GPT-5, but that's totally where this is headed. I'll show you just one more fun example.

0
💬 0

2324.088 - 2348.115 David Sacks

i could let me just show you this so i asked it to to write a letter to lena khan to be a guest at the all-in summit and i told it mention positive things we've said about lena khan in episodes of the all-in pod and so it wrote this letter dear chair khan we hope this message finds you well on behalf of the host the all-in pod we're excited an invitation for you to speak

0
💬 0

2348.775 - 2369.626 David Sacks

at the upcoming All In Summit. And then it says, in our conversations, we have frequently highlighted your impressive credentials and the impactful work you've undertaken. For example, in episode 36, we acknowledge your trailblazing role. And so the letter was able to quote episodes of the All In pod Just without anyone having to go do that research and figure out what would be the best.

0
💬 0

2369.646 - 2390.116 David Sacks

Because I told it, only say positive things. Don't say anything negative. And then it said, warm regards. And it said who the four besties were. Again, we never told it who the besties are. We just said, write us a letter. So it's pretty incredible. Now, this is an example with the all-in pod. Think about any work context where the AI has access to your previous work documents.

0
💬 0

2390.556 - 2392.777 David Sacks

It's pretty amazing what it can do.

0
💬 0

2393.49 - 2410.405 Jason Calacanis

Well, I mean, it is kind of in the name. Like, this is glue. Put you together. And Slack is where you Slack up. Makes total sense. The brands give you a little bit of a tip. We should have seen it coming with Slack. Totally. We have a breaking news story. It's a breaking news story.

0
💬 0

2410.505 - 2412.747 David Sacks

It's an all-in exclusive today on the program.

0
💬 0

2413.007 - 2423.139 Jason Calacanis

I got breaking news coming in. Friedberg, your life's work. Sax did his product review. Now it's your turn, Friedberg. We got breaking news coming in.

0
💬 0

2423.439 - 2442.664 David Friedberg

I did promise you that when Ohalo decides to come out of stealth and explains what we've done and what we're doing, I would do it here on the all-in pod first before the- And all-in exclusive. All-in exclusive. So basically, by the time this pod airs, we're going to be announcing-

0
💬 0

2444.622 - 2465.777 David Friedberg

what Ohalo has been developing for the past five years and has had an incredible breakthrough in, which is basically a new technology in agriculture. And we call it boosted breeding. I'm gonna take a couple of minutes just to talk through what we discovered or invented at Ohalo and why it's important and the kind of significant implications for it.

0
💬 0

2466.358 - 2484.483 David Friedberg

But basically five years ago, we had this theory that we could change how plants reproduce. And in doing so, we would be able to allow plants to pass 100% of their genes to their offspring rather than just half their genes to their offspring.

0
💬 0

2485.343 - 2500.574 David Friedberg

And if we could do that, then all the genes from the mother and all the genes from the father would combine in the offspring rather than just half the genes from the mother and half the genes from the father. And this would radically transform crop yield and improve the health and the size of the plants.

0
💬 0

2501.334 - 2517.045 David Friedberg

which could have a huge impact on agriculture because yield, the size of the plants ultimately drives productivity per acre, revenue for farmers, cost of food, calorie production, sustainability, et cetera. So this image just shows generally how reproduction works. You've got two parents.

0
💬 0

2518.109 - 2534.306 David Friedberg

you get a random selection of half of the DNA from the mother and a random selection of half the DNA from the father. So you never know which half you're gonna get from the mother or which half you're gonna get from the father. That's why when people have kids, every kid looks different. And then those two halves come together and they form the offspring.

0
💬 0

2534.746 - 2551.931 David Friedberg

So every time a new child is born, every time a plant has offspring, you end up with different genetics. And this is the problem with plant breeding. Let's say that you have a bunch of genes in one plant that are disease resistant, a bunch of genes in the other plant that are drought resistant, and you wanna try and get them together.

0
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2552.552 - 2570.764 David Friedberg

Today, the way we do that in agriculture is we spend decades trying to do plant breeding, where we try and run all these different crosses, find the ones that have the good genes, find the other ones that have the good genes and try and keep combining them. And it can take forever and it may never happen that you can get all the good genes together in one plant to make it both disease resistant

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2571.247 - 2594.444 David Friedberg

and drought resistant. So what we did is we came up with this theory that we could actually change the genetics of the parent plants. We would apply some proteins to the plants and those proteins would switch off the reproductive circuits that caused the plants to split its genes. And as a result, the parent plants give 100% of their DNA to their offspring.

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2594.945 - 2613.081 David Friedberg

So the offspring have double the DNA of either parent. You get all the genes from the mother, all the genes from the father. And finally, after years of toiling away and trying to get this thing to work, and all these experiments and all these approaches, we finally got it to work. And we started collecting data on it. And the data is ridiculous.

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2613.781 - 2634.941 David Friedberg

Like the yield on some of these plants goes up by 50 to 100% or more. Just to give you a sense, like in the corn seed industry, Breeders that are breeding corn are spending $3 billion a year on breeding, and they're getting maybe 1.5% yield gain per year. With our system, we are seeing 50% to 100% jump in the size of these plants. It's pretty incredible. Here's an example.

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2635.301 - 2648.939 David Friedberg

This is a little weed that you do experiments with in agriculture. called Arabidopsis. So it's really easy to work with. And you can see that what we have on the top are those two parents, A and B. And then we applied our boosted technology to them and combined them.

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2648.999 - 2654.742 David Friedberg

And we ended up with that offspring called boosted A and B. So you can see that that plant on the right, it's much bigger, it's got bigger leaves, it's healthier looking, et cetera.

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2655.182 - 2668.768 David Sacks

Freework, can I ask you a question? Does that mean that the boosted one has twice the number of chromosomes as A and B? Exactly right. So is that like a new species then? How does it survive with twice the number of chromosomes?

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2668.968 - 2693.563 David Friedberg

Yeah, it's called polyploidy. So we actually see this happen from time to time in nature. For example, humans have two sets of chromosomes, right? So does corn, so do many other species. Somewhere along the evolutionary history, wheat... doubled and then doubled again. And you end up actually in wheat having six sets of chromosomes. Wheat is what's called a hexaploid. Potatoes are a tetraploid.

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2693.583 - 2710.148 David Friedberg

They have four sets of chromosomes. And strawberries are an octaploid. They have eight. And some plants have as many as 24 sets of chromosomes. So certain plant species have this really weird thing that might happen from time to time in evolution where they double their DNA naturally. And so what we've effectively done is just kind of

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2710.968 - 2715.951 David Friedberg

apply to protein to make it happen and bring the correct two plants together when we make it happen.

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2716.512 - 2719.794 David Sacks

And so- So this could only happen for a plant, right? This could never happen with an animal?

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2720.294 - 2738.686 David Friedberg

It wouldn't work in animals. It works in plants. Okay. And one way you can think about plant genetics is all the genes are sort of like tools in a toolbox. The more tools you give the plant, the more it has available to it to survive in any given second, to deal with drought or hot weather or cold weather, etc.,

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2739.446 - 2756.257 David Friedberg

And so every given second, the more tools or the more genes the plant has that are beneficial, the more likely it is to keep growing and keep growing. And that plays out over the lifetime of the plant with bigger leaves and bigger, you know, grows taller. But more importantly, if you look at the bottom, the seeds get bigger. And in most crops, what we're harvesting is the seed.

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2756.557 - 2773.888 David Friedberg

That's true in, you know, corn and many other crops. And so seeing over a 40% increase in seed in this little weed was a really big deal. But then we did it in potato. And potato is a crazy result. Potato is the third largest source of calories on earth. And so we took two potatoes that you see here in the middle, AB and CD.

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2774.428 - 2792.214 David Friedberg

We applied our boosted technology to it, to each of them and put them together. And you end up with this potato ABCD, that's the boosted potato. And as you can see, these were all planted on the same date and the boosted potatoes much bigger than all the other potatoes here, including a market variety that we show on the far right. That's what's typically grown in the field.

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2792.915 - 2816.163 David Friedberg

Now here's what's most important. When you look under the ground and you harvest the potatoes, You can see that that AB potato only had 33 grams, CD had nine grams. So each parent had 33 and nine grams potato, but the boosted offspring had 682 grams of potato. The yield gain was insane. And so you could see this being obviously hugely beneficial for humanity.

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2817.063 - 2835.892 David Friedberg

Potatoes being the third largest source of calories, Indian potato farmers are growing one acre of potato. In India, they eat potato two meals a day. In Africa, potato is a food staple. So around the world, we've had a really tough time breeding potatoes and improving the yield. With our system, we've seen incredible yield gains in potato almost overnight.

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2836.692 - 2837.953 David Sacks

How big are those potatoes?

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2838.633 - 2847.638 David Friedberg

Those are normal-sized potatoes that you see there. Those are like, you know, table potatoes. Basically, that looks like a russet potato right there. That's like a normal-sized russet. I can tell you, you got something in it.

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2848.218 - 2852.42 David Sacks

It started as like a little creamer potato, basically, and you blew it up into a russet potato?

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2852.62 - 2862.086 David Friedberg

Yeah, so the genetics on AB... You can see they're like little purple, tiny little purple potatoes. The genetics on CD are like these little white, you know, tiny little ball potatoes.

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2862.847 - 2875.274 David Friedberg

But when you put those two together with boosted and you combine all the DNA from AB and all the DNA from CD, you get this crazy high yielding potato ABCD, which, by the way, is higher yielding than the market variety that's usually grown in the field on the far right.

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2875.695 - 2877.436 David Sacks

So why not just grow russet potatoes then?

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2878.177 - 2888.907 David Friedberg

We are. And so we're working on doing this with Russet. We're working on doing this with every major potato line. Sorry, the improvement you'll see is actually in yield. So it's not the size of the potato. It's the number of potatoes that are being made.

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2890.268 - 2904.8 Jason Calacanis

And so you'll see... Per hectare or something like that, like the Dwarf Week projects in the 60s and 70s. You know how you can tell Freeburg's onto something here? He got David Sachs to pay attention during it. Yeah. This is going to be a decacord and Saks is awake.

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2905.16 - 2910.583 Chamath Palihapitiya

Saks is like, how do I wet my beaker? Saks is interrogating the potato lines. I've never... What's going on?

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2910.603 - 2914.386 David Sacks

I think genetics is interesting. But so have you tried these potatoes? Do they taste different?

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2914.886 - 2918.788 David Friedberg

Oh, no, they're awesome. Yeah, they're potatoes. And we do a lot of analysis.

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2918.808 - 2920.649 David Sacks

You haven't sprouted any horns yet or anything like that?

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2921.189 - 2940.685 David Friedberg

No. I mean, again, one of the other advantages of the system that we've developed Let me go back here, and I just wanna take two seconds on this. One of the other things this unlocks is creating actual seed that you can put in the ground in crops that you can't do that in today. So potatoes, the third largest source of calories.

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2941.085 - 2956.593 David Friedberg

But the way we grow potatoes, you guys remember the movie, The Martian, you chop up potatoes and you put them back in the ground. Because the seed that comes out of a potato, which grows on the top in the flower, Every one of those seed is genetically different because of what I just showed on this chart, right? You get half the DNA from the mother, half the DNA from the other.

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2956.613 - 2971.415 David Friedberg

So every seed has different genetics. So there's no potato seed industry today. And potato is like $100 billion market. With our system, not only can we make potatoes higher yielding and make them disease resistant, What we also make is perfect seed.

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2971.856 - 2988.779 David Friedberg

So farmers can now plant seed in the ground, which saves them about 20% of revenue, takes out all the disease risk, and makes things much more affordable and easier to manage for farmers. So it creates entirely new seed industries. So we're going to be applying this boosted technology that we've discovered across nearly every major crop worldwide.

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2989.279 - 3010.703 David Friedberg

It'll both increase yield, but it will also have a massive impact on The ability to actually deliver seed and help farmers and make food prices lower. Is it more expensive? No, it's actually cheaper. So higher yield, lower cost. Do you need more water? Less water, less land, less energy. Do you need more fertilizer?

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3012.804 - 3030.256 David Friedberg

Fertilizer usually scales with biomass, but these sorts of systems should be more efficient. So fertilizer use per pound produced should go down significantly. as we get to commercial trials with all this stuff. And we're doing this across many crops. So there's a lot of work to do in terms of like, how do you scale the production in the fields?

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3030.297 - 3042.149 Chamath Palihapitiya

Tell us about the patents and how important patents play a role in this, because isn't it like one of Monsanto's big things, like they just go and sue everybody into the ground or whatever?

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3042.469 - 3050.793 Jason Calacanis

I'm going to answer you one second. I'm just going to switch my headset. It just died. Wow. We went from Saks' bots to Freeburg's crops.

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3050.833 - 3055.115 David Sacks

I'm glad we're doing him second because all of a sudden, like, group chat doesn't seem very important.

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3055.476 - 3063.4 Jason Calacanis

Yeah. Wow. He just solved the whole Ukraine crisis here. We're going to be able to grow wheat in the desert and in the rainforest.

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