All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Sergey Brin, Google Co-Founder | All-In Live from Miami
Tue, 20 May 2025
(0:00) The Besties welcome Sergey Brin! (0:40) Sergey on his return to Google, and how an OpenAI employee played a role! (5:58) AI's true superpower and the next jump (12:23) AI robotics: humanoids and other form factors (17:07) Future of foundational models and open-source (19:59) Human-computer interaction in the age of AI (31:09) Partner shoutouts: Thanks to OKX, Circle, Polymarket, Solana, BVNK, and Google Cloud! Check out OKX: https://www.okx.com Check out Circle: https://www.circle.com Follow the besties: https://x.com/chamath https://x.com/Jason https://x.com/DavidSacks https://x.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://x.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://x.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://x.com/TheZachEffec
Chapter 1: Who is Sergey Brin and what brings him back to Google?
He's going to come join us. This always happens. Another guest. Here he is. Sergey Brin, everybody. Oh, my gosh. Somebody told me you started submitting code and it kind of freaked everybody out that daddy was home.
All models tend to do better if you threaten them. If you threaten them. Like with physical violence. Yes. Management is like the easiest thing to do with AI. Absolutely.
It must be a weird experience to meet the bureaucracy in a company that you didn't hire.
But on the other side of it, I would say it's pretty amazing that some junior muckety-muck can basically look at you and say, hey, go yourself. No, but I'm serious.
Chapter 2: What is AI's true superpower?
That's a sign of a healthy culture, actually. You're punching a clock, man. I hear the reports. You and I have talked about it. You're going to work every day.
Yeah, it's been some of the most fun I've had in my life, honestly. And I retired like a month before COVID hit, in theory. And I was like, you know, this has been good. I want to do something else. I want to hang out in cafes, read physics books. And then like a month later, I was like, eh, that's not really happening.
So then I just started to go to the office, you know, once we could go to the office. And actually, to be perfectly honest, there was a guy from OpenAI, this guy named Dan. And I ran into him at a little party. And he said, you know, look, what are you doing? This is like the greatest transformative moment in computer science ever. And you're a computer scientist. I'm a computer scientist.
Forget that.
You're a founder of Google, but you're a PhD student for computer science.
I haven't finished my PhD yet, but working on it.
Keep working.
We'll get there. Technically on leave of absence. Right. And he told me this, and I'd already started kind of going into the office a little bit, and I was like, you know, he's right. And it has been just incredible. Well, you guys all obviously follow all the AI technology, but being a computer scientist, it is the most exciting thing of my life, just technologically. Yeah.
And the exponential nature of this, the pace of it, it dwarfs anything we've seen in our career. It's almost like everything we did over the last 30 or 40 years has led up to this moment, and it's all compounding on itself. The pace, maybe you could speak, you know, you had a company, Google, that grew from, you know, 100 users and 10 employees to...
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Chapter 3: How is AI transforming human-computer interaction?
Chapter 4: What is the future of foundational models and open-source?
Chapter 5: What are the implications of robotics in AI?
We'll get there. Technically on leave of absence. Right. And he told me this, and I'd already started kind of going into the office a little bit, and I was like, you know, he's right. And it has been just incredible. Well, you guys all obviously follow all the AI technology, but being a computer scientist, it is the most exciting thing of my life, just technologically. Yeah.
And the exponential nature of this, the pace of it, it dwarfs anything we've seen in our career. It's almost like everything we did over the last 30 or 40 years has led up to this moment, and it's all compounding on itself. The pace, maybe you could speak, you know, you had a company, Google, that grew from, you know, 100 users and 10 employees to...
Now you have over 2 billion people using, I think, six products, or five products have over 2 billion. It's not even worth counting because it's the majority of the people on the planet touch Google products. Describe the pace.
Yeah, I mean, the excitement of the early web, like I remember using Mosaic and then later Netscape. How many of you remember... Mosaic, actually, my weirdo. And you remember there was a What's New page.
The What's New page is great.
Like you go to the homepage. Two or three new webpages. Yeah, it was like this last week, these were the new websites. Yes. And it was like such and such elementary school, such and such a fish tank. Yeah. And you were like, wow.
Michael Jordan appreciation page.
Yeah, whatever it was, these were the three new sites on the whole internet. So obviously the web, you know, developed very rapidly from there. And that was very exciting. And then we've had smartphones and whatnot. But, you know, the developments in AI are just astonishing, I would say, by comparison.
Just because of, you know, the web spread, but didn't technically change so much from, you know, month to month, year to year. But these AI systems actually change quite a lot. You know, the... Like if you went away somewhere for a month and you came back, you'd be like, whoa, what happened?
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Chapter 6: How are children adapting to the future with AI?
I personally don't think that's given the AI quite enough credit. Like, AI can learn, you know, through simulation and through real life pretty quickly how to handle different situations. And I don't know that you need exactly the same number of arms and legs and wheels, which is zero in the case of humans, as humans to make it all work. So I'm probably less...
bullish on that, but to be fair, there are a lot of really smart people who are making humanoid robots, so I wouldn't discount it.
What about the path of being a programmer? That's where we're seeing with that finite data set, and listen, Google's got a 20-year code base now, so it actually could be quite impactful. What are you seeing literally in the company? Are
The 10X developer is always this ideal that you get a couple of unicorns once in a while, but are we going to see all developers, their productivity hit that level, 8, 9, 10, or is it going to be all done by computers and we're just going to check it and make sure it's not too weird? Because it could get weird.
If you vibe code, yeah. I'm embarrassed to say this. Recently, I just had a big tiff inside the company because we had this list of what you're allowed to use to code and what you're not allowed to use to code. And Gemini was on the no list. Oh, you have to be pure. You can't... I don't know. For a bunch of really weird reasons that it boggled my mind.
You couldn't vibe code on the Gemini code.
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Chapter 7: What changes might we see in education due to AI?
I mean, nobody would enforce this rule, but there was this actual internal webpage. For whatever historical reason, somebody had put this and I had a big fight with them. I cleared it up after... a shockingly long period of time. You escalated to your boss. Oh, I definitely told Sudhir about it.
I don't know if you remember, but you got super voting foundership. You are the boss. You can do what you want. It's your company still.
No, no, he was very supportive. It was more like, I was like... I could talk to them, I was like, I can't deal with these people. You need to deal with this. I'm beside myself that they're saying we can't.
It's weird that there's bureaucracy in a company. It must be a weird experience to meet the bureaucracy in a company that you didn't hire.
But on the other side of it, I would say, it's pretty amazing that some junior muckety-muck can basically look at you and say, hey, go f*** yourself.
No, but I'm serious.
That's a sign of a healthy culture, actually.
I guess so. Anyway, it did get fixed, and people are using it.
So they got fired. That person's working at Google Siberia?
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Chapter 8: What challenges do developers face with AI in coding?
Early again.
Yeah. Right, right, but early. There are a bunch of things I wish I had done differently, but honestly, it was just like the technology wasn't ready for Google Class. But nowadays, these things I think are more sensible. I mean, there's still battery life issues, I think, that we and others need to overcome. But I think that's a cool form factor.
I mean, when you say 10 years, though, a lot of people are saying, hey, the singularity is like five years away. So your ability to see through that into the future, I mean, it's very hard.
Sorry, just let me ask about this. There was a comment that Larry made years ago that humans were a stepping stone in evolution. Can you comment on this? Do you think that this AGI super intelligence, or really silicon intelligence, exceeds human capacity and humans are a stepping stone in progression of evolution?
Boy, I think sometimes us nerdy guys go and have a little too much wine and chitter chat.
I've had two glasses.
I'm ready to go. I need just more for this conversation. Human implants, let's go. I mean, I guess we're starting to get experience with these AIs that can do certain things much better than us. And they're definitely, with my skill of math and coding, I feel like I'm better off just turning to the AI now, and how do I feel about that? I mean, it doesn't really bother me. I use it as a tool.
So I feel like I've gotten used to it. But maybe if they get even more capable in the future... I'll look at it differently.
Yeah, there's a moment of insecurity, maybe.
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