Abby
Appearances
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
Everyone was like, this girl, she is well-connected. She has these great grades. People in Tuscaloosa love her. She has a bunch of friends in the sorority community.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
It was expected to be this like celebratory story. Everyone was like, this is going to be a big deal. She's going to be the girl that changes things.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
All the families come out and everyone's cheering for the girls that are running to each house and boys and fraternities are handing them flowers. It's a community, social thing to be celebrated.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
Everyone was just really surprised, and people were whispering, like, wow, something definitely happened.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
She was one of the few out-of-state girls in our pledge class. She was from Texas. You don't think of Bastion of liberal ideas, Texas, but she grew up in a city. And so she came not caring about the social do's and don'ts or the proper etiquette stuff. And I was like, well, if there was someone in that house who had something to say about it, it would have probably been her.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
Media training is a part of being in a sorority. It's very frowned upon to talk about what happens on the inside of sororities and fraternities. And no one likes to be a squeaky wheel.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
So many people had written stuff about Greek life, be it the racism, the hazing, all of that. But everything was able to be kind of chalked up to just jealous or like they don't know what it's like. But this story had people within the system calling it out.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
I remember I talked to my dad, who was in a fraternity at Alabama. He was worried for me, like genuinely worried. I'm pretty sure he made a joke about someone's going to come burn you a cross in your front yard or something. but it was more just like pissing people off for messing things with how the way things were and putting campus in a bad spotlight.
The Commercial Break
Introducing: Campus Files
I was keeping her updated on when it was going to publish and the night before it published, I was like, it's going to publish tomorrow. And then she texted me back, put my name on that shit.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
One of my favorite parts about the holiday this year was our recent stay when we went to go visit Glenn and Abby's family in LA, but we stayed in our own Airbnb a few blocks away. It was the best of both worlds because look, you've got your privacy. You've got your own refrigerator. You've got your own beds, multiple beds, by the way, and your own bathroom. And you know what?
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
Then you can have your own bedtimes. It was just so nice to wake up in our own cozy place and have our own family time and then rejoin the larger family for the Christmas festivities and then retreat when everyone needed a little breather. So here's the deal.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
Whether you're traveling with family or friends, those extra rooms, the fully stocked kitchen, not only saves you a bunch of money, but it also makes a huge difference in If you're flying solo, you can make your stay your own little sanctuary. If you're planning a winter getaway this year, I highly recommend giving Airbnb a try. Trust me, it's an experience you won't regret.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
Okay, I'm excited to tell you today about Midi Health. If you have heard... our menopause episodes, you know how passionate I feel about women having access to information about their bodies and about something that so fundamentally affects their lives. Here's the deal. If you're over 40 and you're starting to experience some of the symptoms of perimenopause or menopause,
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If you're having hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, moodiness, all of this can be related to perimenopause or menopause. Log on to MidiHealth. I have done this. It is easy. In fact, I have recently been pursuing with MidiHealth hormone therapy to replace some of the hormones that are diminishing in my body.
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Their clinicians, they meet with you and they suggest specialized care for your health concerns. It's all through telehealth and 24-7 messaging services. and they call in your prescriptions to your local pharmacy. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today at JoinMidi. That's JoinM-I-D-I dot com.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
Speaking of helpful, you are the mastermind behind one of the most revolutionary, groundbreaking portrayals of... big women on screen ever. And I'm obviously talking about the Fat Babe Pool Party episode of Shrill, which became just instant classics, so important to so many people. Can you tell us why you wrote that and what that whole process was like for you?
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
But don't you think it all goes back to your view of life? Sam, your view of life is I want to find the absurd. I want to experience the absurd. I want to be part of seeing, being part of this, experiencing this. And so you intersect with people who can bring that out of you or share that experience with you. Glennon's view of life is very different than that.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
She's like, I'm going to have a very narrow but deep experience of life. And I don't actually want to participate in any extracurriculars. Right. Right.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
That was brave of you. That was a very brave thing to say, is this getting romantic? How did you muster that up?
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
But I think the reverse is also equally important that in this age where everyone is called to be an individual expert on myriad things happening in the world, that it is okay to be a listener. Yes. Not everyone needs to be speaking all the time. It is okay to take your moment and learn your thing and just be a receiver as opposed to a distributor of news.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
Yes. Also, next right thing. Find one person to share your lava with.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
What you just described at the funeral, this is my whole question about humor. Is humor a way to deflect and hide from reality? Or is it actually... the most real reality because it's like, everything's absurd all the time. Even the very sorrowful things are outrageously absurd. So are we like using it as a shield of armor to protect us from reality?
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
Or is it actually the most active engagement with reality is to be like, this shit is funny.
Up First from NPR
Time to Leave
I have a quick follow up to that. So in the shirt situation. Yeah. The funniness gets you through that moment. Right. Because you're disarming her. You're disarming you. You're taking it away. But is the underlying. Oh, I want to die. Yeah. Yeah, you still have to deal with the underlying stuff, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
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How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And I'm sure that there's a lot of people listening that can totally relate to that experience of being triggered. I'm in a position where I can actually see the trigger happen on Glennon. And so my question is, how does Charlie... interact with you, when he feels or sees a trigger happen to you, what are ways that he helps you through those moments where you're feeling triggered? Is he helpful?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I think it'd be really helpful for our listeners to have some language around something, a way that he interacts with you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Unfinished business.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
And it's tricky to see that I might have caused a trigger and to not take that as personally, because like you said, Lily, it's not as personal. It's bringing up some sort of past. And so the first part of our relationship, I was like, I've done something wrong. And then I go into a shame spiral.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
Is it Go Campaign or G-O?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
I mean, first of all, I'm very simple. I'm like, oh, my eyes see thing is something it likes. You're beautiful. That's that's literally it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Find Good Love After Bad with Lily Collins (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. You know, she's cool. And my voice would be up there. And then when I met Stephanie, I noticed I was talking from this really honest place that was right here where I would say, I like her so much. She is the greatest. Oh, my gosh. She's so funny. And I noticed... I was not talking from that place.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I was always like, we'll see, you know, or this is, and then I went, Oh my gosh. And, um, I think what's up. That's good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I it's what I heard was it's toodle. And so I thought, well, let me just check in and see what toodle means. But anyway, so when I noticed I was speaking from that place, I imagine I was talking to everybody from that place about her. And I just I don't know. Maybe that's what it is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That's what I'm kind of chalking it up to is maybe my friends were like, oh, this is not a situation where Tiggs, you know. What did you have?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
But you also had that vibe of people going, wow, I've never heard you talk about somebody. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And at the same time that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
What were you thinking about or pursuing? I mean.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
People like men's bodies? Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I don't even think men's bodies are gross.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah, I am human. And and it's not it's not just easy street knowing that there's any sort of. Regret or something. Gosh, I hope it's not regret. I don't even know. It's it's more terrifying. I think if people are holding these secrets or thoughts, that's when things get.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
rough yeah and as rough as the conversations are or exploration or thoughts um i think it's that's easier to get through than um being confined with those private thoughts or concerns and i assumed that if we were together that
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
no matter if it was a woman, a man, a tree, a non-binary person, trans, whoever it was that, um, Stephanie or even myself that anybody could potentially think, Oh, is that person attractive? Or how do I feel about this? Or how I know that Stephanie is a human being and, um, And so it's complex. But I also know so deeply that we love each other so, so much. And we enjoy each other. And we...
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
we have so much together. We also have a lot of problems and issues. Hey, but, but because we're alive and we're together, but I want to have those problems and issues with Stephanie.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah, I for sure had a big growth spurt in this relationship because we have a 15-year difference between us. And when we got together... Well, I don't mean to sound like a mathematician, but we were much younger. And, you know, even though I'd been in relationships, I was essentially single in the way that I wasn't married and the way I handled money or my house or whatever it was.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
my time, I was calling the shots. And then when Stephanie and I got together, I feel silly saying again, she was much younger, but we met when I was 25. Yeah. Wow. And so. Time went on and she was like, listen, I'm older. I have my career now. I have my money. I have all of these things. And...
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
this is, and I know this people will probably hear this and say, well, of course you're separate people. And of course, fine. I'm telling you, I'm, I was for sure calling the shots of like the house and where the money was going to be spent. And, and I had to look at myself and go, Right. We're married. We're together. This is our house. This is our money.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
But that's also exciting because I'm a brand new person and we continue to each become brand new people. And that's great. But there was a huge Tawanda moment. And by the way, I am mid Tawanda myself. I just told my therapist that the other day because I was like, I think I'm starting to Tawanda. How? I must know. How is Tawanda manifesting?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Can somebody explain Tawanda to me? Oh, babe. Sorry. Well, it's very gay. I'm surprised you don't know. But on Fried Green Tomatoes, when Kathy, did you see that? Of course you did.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
We'll watch it this afternoon. I'm sorry. I never saw it. You never saw it. Well, Kathy Bates, how would you describe Tawanda?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
By the way, you weren't in a terrible marriage. You said Tawanda. I know, but I was joking because you were like, you have to watch the movie.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I'm Tawanda-ing right now. I'm realizing... Well, I mean, I don't know if I need to go into all of the Tawanda-ing. I think you do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
On a very serious note, I've had a lot of unsettling things happen in the past few years, and I've lost a lot of grounding people. Well, I mean, it's unearthing to have... My spouse go to wandering and then, and then as I had this guy that cut my hair for 16 years in my house, pass away two days before the pandemic. And then the pandemic is unsettling.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
My manager of forever got out of the business and I've, my stepfather passed away on the anniversary of my mother. 10 years later, I've just felt a little like, what's happening and what the ground underneath me is a little unsteady. And so it's made me look around like, what's your role? What do you do? Do you make sense in my life? I need to feel secure right now. I really need to feel secure.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And in that, I felt like when something doesn't feel right, I am, and I'm very confrontational in if I need something or want something. I'm very forward. But it's... Tawanda-ing. It's Tawanda-ing, where I'm like, this does not work for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
In a way that I have not before, as much as I do the jokes of like, no, I won't test or, you know, whatever that email I sent you, which I don't even remember sending. But it sounds like me or the OK Dyke moment. I have this other side of me where I do think I am a nice person and I am I want things to be OK and nice with people. And but right now I'm going through a place of. Yeah, of Tawanding.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
No, I... I've just gotten very seriously firm about things or I've raised my voice in a way that I don't normally. Like my agent of like 15 years ran into Stephanie at a party and he was like, I have not, he was on a call with me where I was just very firm about something. And he was like, I've never heard Tig like that before.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
It's good. I am so, so deeply in it. I love it. And there are there is the aftermath of and I don't know if this is exactly what you're talking about, but there is the aftermath of people. Being stunned. at our production company, our creative executive who used to be our assistant years ago. He's worked with us forever now, but I was talking to him about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And, and he said, you don't have to apologize. Or he said, those are real emotions and feelings. And although I know that it was, it was nice to hear it because I, I just the circus I'm finished with. I'm very finished.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
But there's also plenty of people that are on ego trips and power trips that also do it, that do it, that are not what I'm talking about. And I'm not talking about the power ego tripping people that do this. That's a whole different thing. I'm talking about just people really, really getting in tune with what you want. I am so obsessed with the things that I don't want to.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That's meaning I love learning. I don't want this. I don't want this in my life. I don't want this. And I love that when it rears its head as much as I find something like Stephanie, where I'm like, I want this. This is what I will work and live for. And this is that side of it. And then there's this where I'm like, oh, am I thrilled that I... Know that I don't want that. I do not want that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That's right. And it all feeds into Tawanda.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Not this. There's so many things. Creative things. And people in the creative world that I have had too much patience for. And there's a lot of creative stuff that I've been open to because I do think it's important to try new things out. But there's so much creative that I've learned that's not for me. And I don't want to spend my time doing that. And just, there are people that I am okay with.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I'm not looking for a battle with them, but they're not for me. And, and I'm okay with cutting that loose and being friendly with Perfectly friendly when I see them, but they're not for me. And I'm not interested in the world that surrounds them. And I'm good with that. And I also... I just want to be comfortable. I want to be safe and comfortable and healthy. I feel that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Well, you're climbing to hell. It's not to nowhere. You're absolutely climbing to hell because people are so blinded by fame, fortune, power. When it gets into the right hands, you have incredible people. And then when that gets into the wrong hands... It is astounding, the monsters.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And I'm always like, people will say, does it frustrate you when you hear that she or they or whoever is getting it? And I'm like, no, keep feeding that monster.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Let him have it all. Let him have it all. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
It's so challenging. And it's, and look, I love we both I'll speak for myself. I love working. I love what I do. I love it. But I am not looking to just fill my calendar. Stephanie and I have a production company and we do things together. And that is. Excites me so much writing, creating, producing, acting. We do all of those things together and have over the years. And we have so much.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Everybody is like, oh, God, what was that like working with your wife? It was incredible. It was incredible. It was so fun. And we're both so sad when we go to a set and the other one is not there. And we're like, we're looking for more people like us. Yeah, we love working together. We love it. And we love working on our projects. And so they're labors of love.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And again, I've done plenty of things outside of what we create together. But Stephanie makes fun of me because, you know, on, on, uh, projects or sets, people are like, I'm not here to make friends. And I'm like, I'm only here to make friends. That is the only thing I'm here to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I might not, you might not be, you know, I might pick up something weird about you, but, um, I'm not necessarily going to be friends, best friends with everyone, but I am here to have a good time. I want to be laughing, um, on set and enjoying myself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That's so, so crucial to me is to enjoy what I'm doing and feel like there's a positive message to the project or there's a good people involved in it. Of course, It's hit or miss out there. But that's what I'm going in for. That's really, really what I'm interested in.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah. I always, yeah. I always say nothing matters and it's devastating. But also, nothing matters. But, oh, nothing matters.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yes. Nothing matters?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
But nothing matters. But nothing matters. So do it. Take the risk. But just remember. Nothing matters.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
This doesn't matter. It's not going to be Tawande.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Do you have a mug that says don't even talk to me until I've had my coffee?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
They dress themselves and they look like maybe they don't have parents. Yeah, sure.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
So great. Yeah, they're so great. And and anytime we find ourselves getting caught up in, you know, oh, this one always forgets to do this or this one gets frustrated with this or that this is their little struggle with their dynamic. They are not difficult children and they're so loving and protective of each other. We cannot. reprimand one without the other one getting so upset with us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Hi, we didn't know that our bios were going to be read.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Turn on you. And you're just like, okay, you guys got to figure this out yourselves then, which is pretty much what they do for the most part.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
That was our big dream. I was just like, Oh gosh, I just want to put little pants on someone.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
yeah if you do that your whole life you don't have to Tawanda yeah right totally exactly but I have to say Tawanda-ing is kind of it's kind of fun yeah it's really it's really freeing to to Tawanda Kathy Bates was standing in front of me at the airport uh like maybe five people in front of me and I I considered Telling her I was mid to Wanda.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
But then I just thought, oh, she hears that all the time and I can't be another person that does the.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
So now you go. We travel with your bios. Our nighttime reading. I want to make an adjustment. We have three cats. We have the two that you left out are actually in Stephanie's office with us. And luckily they didn't hear it because we have our headphones on.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Yeah, that's what I was saying before. I was like, we've got plenty of issues and problems. And a lot of them we've worked through and a lot of them continue to rear their head. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I call them like old files where it's like, should we pull out that old file? And we know what's in there, but should we pull out the old file? And I, a friend of mine that I grew up with, we also have old files where, where I'm like old jokes or stories. And we've been friends since we were children. And we moved out here to Los Angeles together. And,
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
we have stories that we've told each other a million times because we grew up together and we had those stories together and we lived it together. And one of us will bring out the old file and start telling a story. And then the other one will say, wait, do you know this? And the other one will say, Absolutely. But please tell it again. And then and we won't stop each other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
OK, well, and so and we know the story by heart. And it's the same thing with our issues. And that's what's so weird. Don't interrupt me, Stephanie. Oh, that's our issue.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
We were up. We were both upset. And I think she was maybe. locked into maybe yelling at me or something at the moment.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
She was like, something was coming at me verbally. And then I, mid-argument, I just wandered off to the window and just put my hands against the glass and I started singing an impromptu musical. And I was like, there was a time. And I just started singing about All the good times we used to have and before things went awry. And Stephanie started laughing so hard.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And so now we'll sing musicals to each other when things get really tense. And it pulls us out of those moments. And what we're working on now is... following up after Al comes back, you're like, well, I'm still... No resolution.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
We can pull each other out. Another thing that Stephanie does that will pull me out of... is when she's driving me insane which has only happened once of course but um uh i'll be so frustrated that i can't see and then she'll start pointing to her wedding ring like you got me for life i'm yours here's the one you picked i'm the one you picked and then uh that makes me laugh So hard.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Skip and Linus. Okay. And are they also producers and directors?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And we also joke about when we're in an argument, we'll talk about how, well, I'm legally bound to you. I signed a contract. And so I guess we've got to work this out because we are contractually bound to this situation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
They work at Judd Apatow's production company. Okay. That's how we met them. Got it. Okay. They were assistants. They were assistants. And we asked them if they wanted to live. With two mothers. And they mailed, which we interpreted it as yes. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Oh, I have to tell you one more thing that gets us out of an argument. Actually, we haven't done this in a while. It's so funny. There was a meme or something that you sent me where – a guy was driving a car and then his dog was in the passenger seat and had its paw on the, on his arm, on his arm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And I think I've told you that it gets me out of situations where if somebody will just touch me in an argument, I can talk better if she just reaches out and touches me. And so she sent me that meme of the guy driving and his dog just having its paw.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And so sometimes when we've had arguments, Stephanie will kind of mimic the dog and put her paw on my arm where she's so mad and then she'll put her paw on me. And then and then it makes me laugh or it like brings you back to reality. It brings me back to reality.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And that that touch when Stephanie will reach out and touch me, I'm like, OK, we're we're together.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I thought you were going to talk about how I remember one time after an argument and I Look, we're not arguing all the time. 1% of the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
But one of the times that we argued, I came back in the room. I thought you were going to talk about this. And I said, whew, we just got in big trouble. And that's how it felt. It felt like...
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
wow we we misbehaved there you know we just yes i get that it felt like a parent would have been like whoa you two yeah take it easy and so we do reference that still where after we'll have an argument we'll be like we just got in big trouble and that'll break tension too
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Stephanie and Tig speak cat. It's good. We do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And I don't care who's giving you a signal. We're not finished. But I do want to take a moment to acknowledge how thankful we are for what you both do for the world and the greater good. And I... feel so strongly about putting your time and money and power and influence into your beliefs. And I think that you both do that well. beyond measure. And I am so, so thankful for that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Well, I met both of you through Don't Ask Tig, but this is... Do we pretend like that didn't happen?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
No, no, no, no. I know. I absolutely am. I want people to know. No, no, no. No, that's not why I'm saying I'm truly. I remember Stephanie talking to me about what you do, both of you and how activated you are. And that drew me. I was so blown away. And I fully believe that if you have a problem with something, don't complain about it. do something, donate money, lift a finger and help people.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And how do we know? I mean, it's funny to talk earlier about nothing matters, but of course I think everything matters and I care about everything. And I think that, yeah, There's just different ways that you can activate yourself, whether it's showing up in person for people or giving your money in ways and towards things that you can't physically get to. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Do you make a decision what you care about?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Intention. is so crucial. And I think that we trust the intention behind your organization. I think all the time. Let's say you both despise me or you don't like my comedy or you took all of my joking seriously. I don't care. I'm still going to give you my money, you know,
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
I do not care what you think about me, because if I think you have good intentions and you are going to be doing something incredible and powerful with that money. Great.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Or just long-term life, you know, the memory goes. And I'm not saying you're elderly, but I have a lot of memory problems.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Constantly. Yeah. You know, it's terrible. And I apologize. But I don't. But I do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
movement so you're just people are just kind of staring like really the other night we had dinner with a group of people I will not drop names but you'd be impressed with who was there was it Taylor Dane yes and no beforehand there was an email chain of hey can everyone get tested you know And everyone was chiming in, and I just wrote no. See?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
You're like, oh my God, no, we're totally... See, I walk away thinking, of course they know I'm kidding. Why would I do that to somebody? Why would I not test? Why would I not... have a double date. Why would, why, why? This is similar to how we sort of got together officially. Um, right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And I think I'm funny. And I'm some people think I'm funny. I really thought you were funny. Look, I'm not for everyone. That's fine. You can't be for everyone. That's right. Yeah, that's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
We didn't kiss because it was Valentine's Day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Well, I didn't even know what to do because we have so much fun together and we kiss so naturally. And I just thought, what does all of this mean?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
No, you said that. No, I've just been dabbling for longer than you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And so I'm just like, yeah, you know, but it... I'm not discounting your need to talk about it or Stephanie, because Stephanie, she'd talk about it for, she could write you pages of an email.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Look, I don't do CrossFit, but I am the, I'll talk your face off about plant-based food.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
So then I'm not even going to worry about this, about boring you. I got my plant-based nutrition certification during the pandemic. I did. Yes, I did.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And you should have added that in my bio.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
And then she can talk about her sexuality of, um, uh, and answer this question, but let's talk about the other side of things of how many boyfriends you had.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
Thank you, Abby. And softball. You can't play those sports and not be slightly interested in women.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your Towanda with Tig Notaro & Stephanie Allynne (Best Of)
There's another little monkey wrench. See, Stephanie was single with a roommate, and it felt more... I didn't really hear... Um, that no, but I imagine people might've thought that I've dated so many, um, people that are interesting or beautiful, smart, funny, all of these things. And I talk about the inflection where I would say, oh, um, yeah, it's good. Yeah. You know, things are good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Yeah. And then it's also kind of like this resentment, like just one fucking day. Are you kidding me?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
When I was in second grade, I was at this school and And I remember my mom showing up at our school on my birthday with Friendly's little ice cream cups. You know, the ones that had the spoons. Oh, yeah. It was like high quality treats. And I remember we were all going out to the playground and she walked up and she had, you know, 20 of these Friendly cups in this brown bag.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And I just like I remember like looking at my mom and being so proud that that was my mom and so proud to be able to hand each one of my classmates one of these friendly cups. And we sat on the side of the playground and we ate our ice cream and then we played on the playground for a little while.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's so scary. I'm telling you, we can control it. I have done it. When I'm out in public, I'm like this. I like swallow it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I don't have many memories of my childhood, but that was a really good day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I just start it and I pick up the tank bow. We're walking in their bedroom and it's also like a wake up song. So she's like, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Chase. Happy birthday to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
No, but my eyeballs are about to pop out of my face.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
The hills are rolling. They're doing it. They're doing it. Do you feel like you've always been a little let down on your birthday? Like the birthday hasn't hit your expectations. And so is this like a source of, I'm never going to remember it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I just had to do a yawn, ha, ha. I just needed, I needed to do a yawn, ha, ha.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Oh my God. That is really embarrassing. I'm bad. I feel embarrassed for you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And if she does get one of those wins or one of those desires, she'll be able to come to us and it will be this like beautiful moment, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I think that one of the things that I try to do is to explain the things I really want to do on my birthday and the things I don't want to do. That's good. For instance, we talk about this like a month before both of our birthdays. And usually it's like we are foregoing any material item that we will be handed as a gift.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And because the real truth is both of us just want to go just the two of us somewhere different than here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
We're having a moment in our family, like the back to school, everything has been wild.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
What is the ha, ha? I just, you know sometimes when you're like, yawn, ha! You ever do that? Like you need to like, ha!
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
But they don't, the kids don't really know it, but I'm like seething.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's just, I can't stop thinking about it, so I'm doing it. You know, it's contagious.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I mean, I don't think we're going to fix birthdays. We're going to talk about birthdays. That's for sure what we're going to do on this. All right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
It's not a quiet thing for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
That's right. This is a thing in our marriage that isn't going to change. This is what we're going to keep doing until we're dead. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I have a complicated relationship with birthdays because being the youngest of a huge family, when I was really young, You know, they do the big celebrations. And then as you get older, because I was the youngest, we would just celebrate a birthday during dinner. Like, that's what we did.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
I did. I always chose marinated steak for some reason. That was my favorite growing up. But, like, I feel like we're setting our adult selves up for real failure. Yes. Because these... parties are thrown for us when we're children. And then as we get older, they stop, they go away. At least that was the case for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
And I feel like it's kind of sad because we're getting older by one year every year. And there's an existential dread that's happening like, oh, I'm getting older. And then we get celebrated in many ways like less and less as we get older. And so it's kind of this like sad hope for younghood.
We Can Do Hard Things
Why Do Birthdays Bring So Many Feels?? (Best Of)
Do you think when you were young, 47 was like? Almost dead. Yep.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So we're talking two separate things. USA basketball is different than the WNBA.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And the players of the Atlanta Dream. Dream, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
double date it's so exciting it is exciting i feel nervous and excited a little bit like and we for the past few minutes we've been talking about our own personal rules for our double date like you would imagine you and your partner driving to this said double date and like you're kind of talking about like what's going to happen like what do you want to talk about yeah so our first double date and we can do our thing who is it
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Or I like Megan even. No, I want to know like- We're going to get there. We're like on a timeline.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
It's sweet. She was trying to protect you, you know? Those are the kind of friends you have. And now...
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
What, um, what is just going to switch gears real quick. What do y'all fight about the most?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Well, it actually probably sounds like Sue farted. And she's like, excuse me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I'm never... I think we've gotten to a place where we're starting to accept that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I will say, I do think that I have gotten less loud.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
She said, you know, I want a partner that partners.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Yeah. This has been like the ongoing. The ticker's fascinating. That thing has changed my life. Like now I have to actually like write it down, like ticker. So she'll walk into the room. She's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm tickering right now. And it's just like I'm literally sitting there by myself thinking of all the things that needs to get done.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Well, in the sober world, when you don't drink at night, like you don't go get dinner and drinks if you're not drinking. So we do coffee.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
We just got this package from Symbiotica and I'm so excited. I've used their liposomal glutathione and the vitamin C and they're my favorite products by far. The liposomal form gets it into your system and actually gets it to the places that you need it to be.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So that especially during the winter times and the colds and all the things, I just need my system and my immune system to be like strong and capable of going outside and not worrying about getting sick. And that's what Symbiotica is giving me. It's giving me for real belief in my body.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
So what are you guys doing? Like, what in the hell are you doing? Where are you right now? Are you in Seattle?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And that's the thing. So good. It's so beautiful. When Glennon comes to me, she's coming to me with... Real problems that are like life and death for people, you know? And so I don't want to like live in that space 24 hours a day. And so sometimes she'll just be like, can you please just not bright side this? Like, this is not a bright sideable moment. This is horrible. Like, this is bad.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Like, let's just sit and feel bad for a little bit. And when that is kind of the consistent conversation, I'm like, fuck, I'm... I'm sad now. Now I'm actually sad.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I think that you just told me it is. And now I'm supposed to deal with that. I don't know. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I feel like we're both jealous. Do you? No. You're definitely more jealous than me. And also, if somebody comes into our situation where I get a weird vibe with, I'm like, cut all ties. Yes. Yeah. Cut them off. Cut all ties. Because I've been, you know, traumatized in my past. And so when I feel the feeling, I like tell you, I'm like, that person crossed a boundary. I don't know what it is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Maybe nothing has happened. Like literally, they're probably wonderful people.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I keep trying to bring up things that we can do for fun together. Like I just brought up the other day, like I think we should get into pickleball.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
You'll learn when you get retired, Megan, you'll learn that like, you're like, I don't know what I'm going to do. What am I going to do to work out and have fun? Because you got to do it at the same time. Well, we do just because we have children and that takes up all of our day. I mean, I know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And I think, you know, you guys are touching on a lot of stuff that I've thought about, especially over the last five, six years of my retirement, having these like friends that you you go to camp. you're playing on your teams and you have people around all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
One thing that I think will happen when you retire is you're going to get really picky about the people that you spent because you all are so busy and having those friendships that you do get like chosen family, you know, a lot of especially gay women.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Not that you guys have bad family situations, but I just know that having other queer women in our lives is like really important to to feel like you're having that sense of community in some way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And listen, but there's, you have to keep doing that Megan and Sue, because y'all are trailblazers and trailblazers are always questioning themselves. Like whether we want to believe that or not, trailblazers are like, fuck, what am I doing? Sue, And I'm sure a lot of people tell you this, you know, just just really take in everything and enjoy your last year.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And what I will tell you is that my life got so much better when I retired. It got so much better. People are saying the biggest fears that I had were where I was going to make money, how I was going to make money and what I was going to do to get health care. And the truth is, I've made more money in my retirement.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
much by just like actually giving more time to myself to like create things and do things that I want to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Well, I think that Megan... And I were very similar in this way that when it was off season, we were off. We took those seven and might I say maybe 14. We might have extended those days off. So that coming back into shape is just miserable. And also when you get older, it's harder. It's just it's just physiologically more difficult.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
It's so frustrating. It's so fucking infuriating because here's the thing. Yeah. Like you don't, Y'all should y'all should be able to at this age, at this time in your life, be able to walk away completely fine and financially set for life. But like we're women athletes. So it's like constantly fighting that battle. And no, totally.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Some people just like stay in shape during that time, but I just never did. But how is your body holding up, Megan? Like, are you are you feeling healthy at least? Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I mean, yeah, y'all are just you're all our icons, not just sports icons, but really feminists and women in the world that are doing world changing things. And I can't wait for y'all to retire. The world actually kind of needs you on this side of the... New friends?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
Well, and as pro athletes, y'all never are actually, especially as we get older, you're never at 100%. So you're always you're always dealing with something. And like that just plays a massive role into the confidence that you could take as an athlete on the pitch or on the court. So it's like, I don't know. I just think it's so fucking amazing that y'all are still playing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
I mean, Sue, how old are you right now? Forty one.
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And she just agreed to play for another year, which is amazing and wild to me. I mean, have you treated your body perfectly forever? No, no, no, no. How are you still moving?
We Can Do Hard Things
Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)
And this is a pre this is NBC pre Olympics so that NBC can get footage to use while the Olympics are playing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I deserve it. I love that you said that. For me, it makes me think about being in those rooms and the temptation of wanting to align and become them and to align with the men, the white men in those rooms, how easy and alluring that is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
And I feel like this is the real fight is to resist, to keep resisting the urge in that alignment.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
They don't want it. They don't want the actual change.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
What is it like communicating with white women?
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Bozema St. John is a Hall of Fame inducted marketing executive, author, entrepreneur, and in our opinion, a general badass. Also the world's opinion. Boz has led global consumer marketing at Apple, Music, and iTunes. She was chief brand officer at Uber and global chief marketing officer at Netflix. Boz is currently the
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Having to be the kind of jerk afterwards in that post-meeting going, actually, no, you stole my idea. That wasn't ours. And that makes you feel like a jerk, but like you're still having to do it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Named the number one most influential CMO in the world by Forbes and has been named one of Billboard's most powerful women in music for 10 consecutive years. In 2021, Harvard Business School published a multimedia case study on her career titled Leading with Authenticity and Urgency. through which she developed and taught a program at the university aptly named The Anatomy of a Badass.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Low bars here. Now I'm selfish.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
You got to tell us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Bose was named as an ambassador for the African diaspora and special envoy to the president of Ghana. And in the spring of 2023, Penguin Books will publish her memoir, The Urgent Life. Bose counts her highest achievement as being a mother to her 12-year-old daughter, Lael.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
What a gift. Bose, nobody will ever forget your name. That is for damn sure. You are unforgettable. Thank you for being with us and sharing your story. And please come back when that book is published.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
Now, I understand like from a personal perspective, you might view some of these choices that you've made as a mistake, but I have kind of another perspective that the world is only ready when it's ready. So corporate America might only be ready for a Bozema St. John in their minds. And then in practicality, Bozema St.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
John walks through the door and starts to fuck shit up and starts to do her work. And they're like, actually, I don't know if we're this ready yet. Right. I don't know. Right. And so maybe it feels like a personal mistake or a personal decision that you've made that you don't think was great. Or in hindsight, you may have chosen differently. But from the perspective of the macro, right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
I think what you're doing is you're laying a foundation for those of us who will come after you and getting the corporate worlds or all of those tables you sat at a little bit more ready for people in certain ways. And I think that that's really important not to get lost in this conversation that your presence and representation at some of those tables. And this leads me to my question.
We Can Do Hard Things
Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)
You've been at, all of the most powerful tables in the corporate world. How does it feel to so often be the one who looks like you at those tables? The only one, I'm sure. Yeah, probably the only one.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
We have so much to ask you about, but we want to start with sexuality because that's just an easy subject. We can just get out of the way real quick. Yeah, just a light, you know. Easy breezy. Yeah. And also just because we enjoyed your book so much. Let's start by talking about why we should talk about sexuality because I loved your point about
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
I think that one of the things that has really helped me, not only the fact that I'm very non-binary in so much of my life, I just, I feel like I'm attached to the pronoun she, her. And so one of our children, they have a non-binary friend that uses the pronouns they, them. And it blew my mind when I started to think of it as just a third way.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Rather than just having two options, there is a middle option. And that helped me orient how to communicate. And by the way, I still make mistakes. We all do. And just moving beyond those mistakes as quickly and as least dramatically as possible has been really kind of shifting for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
So the World Health Organization says that gender is cultural. Here's a question. So I, every poor person who listens to this podcast, who has to listen to me talk about gender incessantly, because I'm always trying to figure it out. But I can't understand. Gender doesn't feel like anything that's inside me.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
It feels like things that I have put on the outside of me, because that's how I've been told to present in the world. But I can't find it inside of me. So like when our son is explaining how his friend is identifying, and he says, look, just look at them. Like they're, you know, a soul. All souls have to be thems.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Like when you start thinking about human beings as not gendered, because gender is not real, you just will start thinking them, them, them, because it makes more sense actually. Yeah, yeah. Which I think is so beautiful and probably right. But then I get to that place where I'm like, gender is not real. It's not fucking real. And then I have a dear friend who's trans and is like, oh no, thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
That's not correct. I am a man.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Das heißt wirklich, Sexualität ist für alle, nicht nur für queere Menschen. Und die armen, strengen Menschen können nie über ihre Sexualität sprechen, weil es immer als etwas ist, das nur für queere Menschen ist. Aber du sagst in dem Buch, das ich liebe, dass Gender-Präferenzen die mindestens wichtigste Teil der Sexualität sind. Es gibt viele andere Teile.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
It's scary to consider that there's an element of creativity in it. And it's just so amazing that you can get to like, oh, now I've got it. Now I've got it. Gender is not even a thing. It's not even real. Yes, that is evolved. And then somebody's like, Das ist völlig falsch.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Right. You'd be like, what the fuck? But that's all that happens. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what happened today.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
I want to ask you what other things it helped you challenge and und anders ansehen. Und auch, ich möchte nur sagen, ich finde es cool, für mich zu denken, weil du gesagt hast, vielleicht nur sicher sein zu müssen über dich selbst. Und das hat nicht für mich funktioniert. Ich will nie sicher sein über mich selbst sein, weil ich mich über mich selbst überrascht habe.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
You know, six years ago, you said at one point, you don't have to be gay to be gay. And that was for sure true for me. Like, yeah, you never know. And that's a beautiful thing about sexuality. It reminds me a little bit about faith, like thinking about faith. It's just this like ongoing evolution of ideas that's fluid constantly.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
But what did this whole breaking down of everything in terms of gender and sexuality, what else did it help you deconstruct?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Was denkst du darüber? Es funktioniert ziemlich gut für alle, also würde ich es nicht sagen.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Es ist so ein Geschenk, sich nicht zu befinden. Ich denke, das ist das, was Leute nicht, wenn wir denken, wir lachen immer und sagen, unsere Lieblingsmenschen sind Queer-Menschen, aber es ist, weil es eine Art Persönlichkeit gibt, die von dem Geschenk, nicht von Mainstream zu werden, erst gefeuert wird.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Weil du denkst, oh, ich glaube, wenn ich nicht mit ihnen beitreten kann, werde ich einfach frei sein.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
No, I have so much abandonment issues that monogamy is the only way for me. For sure. So like, I know that. I ask her even now, we're like six years married.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
I'm like, are you ever going to leave me? Please tell me you're never going to leave me. I have to start each. If I'm like, I need somebody to do the dishes. I have to start the conversation with monogamy. I'm not gonna leave you. I just need you to put your cup in the dishwasher.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
We're just trying to make them happy still. Damn. Yes. Yeah. You do say you have an addictive personality, so Abby and I are both, that's another reason we relate to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
You're trying to create like the dopamine hit. Is that why you do all the things? Yes, baby. That is risk. Risk and drinking and drugs are like Es produziert die gleichen chemischen Reaktionen in meinem Gehirn.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
So this is what we're talking about. Okay, these are some examples of Maze-Sexuality. Okay, as of a few years ago. May really loves winkers. Okay, that's W-I-N-K-E-R-S. May loves people who wink at them.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Sie schüttelt sich immer weiter in den Bergen und aus dem Escape Room.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
So I was lauding your parents and saying they were so amazing, but there's one little sentence in your book that says, listen, they weren't perfect. There's reasons that I wash my face five times a day and have fear of abandonment. So let's go back to that. How did they fuck up and why, why did they make you wash your face five times a day and have abandonment issues?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
If the wink happened with like, Zwei Waffen? Oh, wie Fingerwaffen? Das ist ein Bro-Wink.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Und du hast auch gesagt, dass deine Sexualität von Leuten ist, die dich trinken, ohne dir zu fragen, was du willst. Und dann auch von Leuten, die fahren, während du der Passagier bist. Also ich sehe, dass du jemanden willst, der der Boss der Situation ist. Oder bin ich hier übergeneralisiert?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ist es okay, mit einem richtigen Tuck-Shirt mit den Rücken am Fronten, ist es okay, den Top-Button zu öffnen und ein bisschen Cash zu machen, oder sollte ich den Top-Button mit keinem Bowtie buttonen?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Es ist so, dass ihr alle für die Party geflogen seid, aber ich für die Nachkampagne geflogen bin.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
In the last minute we have here, what's an idea or a belief or a way of being that you're trying to leave behind? Hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Well, it's important, not only because it's going to be great for you, but also all the people in the world that look like you that don't want to adhere to or want to look to the boy bands or the girl. No pressure. I think it's important that there's people that look like us that are actually doing things in all the industries.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Yeah. Interesting. What about you two? Because I gave them homework that they were going to have to figure out what their sexuality was.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Du musst es tun, um die Zukunft zu machen. Nein, du willst nur ein bisschen Freude damit haben. Ich verstehe das, weil ich eine Schriftstellerin bin, aber ich möchte geheim innerhalb von mir nur ein Poet sein. Oh, ich dachte, du würdest einen Musiker oder einen Rockstar nennen. Nein, nein, nein. Ich meine, du kennst das Poet-Ding. Ja.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Aber ich habe so Angst, mir zu sagen, warte, werde ich einen Buch von Poemen schreiben? Du solltest.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
May, du bist nur ein verdammter Traum.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ja, wir würden gerne ein bisschen Zeit verbringen und dir nichts in L.A. zeigen, weil wir nichts über L.A. wissen. Lass uns ein Spielabend haben.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ja, ja. Und kommt von jemandem, der keine Repräsentation zu sehen hatte. Ich denke einfach, was du tust und all die Arbeiten, die du tust, deine Arbeit zählt. Und es verändert die Perspektiven der Menschen. Und ich möchte dir so viel danken, weil du mir sogar helfen kannst. Jetzt hast du mich getroffen.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
thank you I just think that I know that you've you've had to forge yourself to be in the position that you are in so much of your life and have had to deal with a lot of ups and downs but here we are and what you're doing is heroic to put your work out into the world and do it in the way that you are it's beautiful thank you thank you so much and ditto yeah thank you I also think it's very cool that you're inspiring in a different way too is the
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
It would be awful. We love you, May. The rest of you, your responsibility this week is to figure out three things that are your sexuality. Yes, completely. It doesn't matter what you are. Everybody has a sexuality. So you figure out three things. We love you. When things get hard this week, don't forget, we can do hard things. Thank you, Mae. Bye. Thank you so much. Yay!
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts
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How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Okay, everybody. Thanks for coming back to We Can Do Hard Things. We're going to jump right in because we're very excited about the person who is with us today. Mae Martin is an award-winning comedian, actor, writer and producer who can be seen starring in Feel Good, which we freaking loved, which they also created and co-wrote.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ich hatte einige. Okay. Someone who can bring a joke full circle and land it. Like inside a conversation where we've been talking for 10 minutes and then the one person who can just bring it home and tie up. That's a thing that Glennon does. And then I'll say this one. Someone who is up for an adventure. Like if I were to say, hey, let's go do this X. And they're like, yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
And also we should also do Y. And I'm like, Yes, somebody who wants to bring their Yes game and also add to it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
That's cool. I had a hard time with this one. Yeah, totally. A really hard time, because you know, I've just gotten a sexuality in the last few years.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
No, I think it's slightly true. I think I shut it down for so long and didn't explore it, because I was scared of what was there. But I will tell you that one of the things I have noticed throughout my entire life... ist, dass, wenn jemand mich ansprach, das non-binary aussah. What I assume is my sexuality. All I can tell you is that if my heart was a soldier, it was like suddenly out of tension.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Ja. Okay. Also, May, ich muss nur kurz über deine Eltern sprechen und wie sie mit dir über Sex sprechen. Das ist das Beste. Wir haben tatsächlich viele Eltern, die diesen Podcast hören. Oh, großartig. First of all, didn't your mom sit you down with hand-drawn diagrams of sex?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Mae is currently in development with Programmed for Netflix and stars in Season 2 of The Flight Attendant, so cool, on HBO Max. May Martins Guide to Series about Sexuality and Addiction are available to listen to on BBC Sounds. May is also the author of Can Everyone Please Calm Down?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Es ist, auch die Bilder, auch das Sagen, das ist Sex zwischen einer Frau und einer Frau, das ist so brillant. You could explain orgasms the way that May's mother did, which is this. Okay, I want you to imagine a mother saying this to six-year-old May. When two people love each other and they're naked and having sex, they feel very happy and then they feel increasingly happy.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
And finally, they reach a moment of extreme happiness and an explosion of rainbows cascades across the sky.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
The only person for whom the first orgasm was really fucking let down. It was a let down. Yeah, I was like, have I done it wrong? Can we talk about the fact that you never had to come out? Because this is something we talk about all the time. Which is, I don't know if people who don't have to come out even know why it's so infuriating to have to come out.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Because it's sexualizing yourself in front of people over and over again. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Probably Gia. I actually really remember being very attached to that movie. Have you seen it?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
A Guide to 21st Century Sexuality, which our family has been going through like a hilarious family class for the last month. Willkommen, May. Danke, dass du da bist. Wir können hartes Leben machen. Danke, dass du da bist. Es ist so schön, euch alle zu treffen. Das ist meine Frau Abby. Das ist meine Schwester Amanda. Und ihr wisst alle, das ist May.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
It makes sense. It's all coming together now. Yeah. We talked about this one time when you were explaining to a friend, I think you were saying at the time that you were going to date a boy, you were dating a boy. And your friend got upset in like a very confused way because your friend was used to seeing you date women.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
And so he looked at you strangely and said, I can't imagine you having sex with a dude. Ja. Ja. Ja.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
Das ist richtig. Das ist richtig.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to be Sexually Confident with Mae Martin (Best Of)
I felt like I was the one that was teaching everybody about gayness. And so all of the questions would come and I felt like it was my unfortunate duty to have to educate. And, you know, quite frankly, a lot of my straight dude friends were asking me a lot of important questions for their sexual lives. And I hated it, but I also felt like it was a service that I had to do for some reason. It was...
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing online. On the planet at Viori.com slash hard things. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash hard things. You won't be sorry.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Right, right. He was a dude. The apostle Peter. Right. We're no longer talking about my brother.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah. So when she reported this to me, that Jesus is best. His name was Peter who eventually became St. Peter and Jesus gave him essentially like the keys to heaven and, And so Glennon just was like, so do you understand what this means? This means your brother is like the bouncer of heaven. And I was like, Peter lets everybody in. She said, yes, Peter lets everybody in.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
When I tell you that in my body, it was like a full body. Yes. And like, I don't know if this is a part of grief or whatever, but there's just been so much confusion in my body. I'm a justice person. This doesn't make sense. All of it. And for the first time, I was like, oh, OK, this is something I can grasp. This is something I can hold. This is something I can carry with me that. Brings me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
not just like an ease of pain, but like actually brings me joy and kind of a weird, like the relief of death or hell. It just like kind of blew it all up for me. I was like, Oh wait. And I've, I know that this is something that has been programmed into me, but in my body, it was like the first time my body breathed or took a breath. And I, Yeah, it was so incredible.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And so, of course, I call my mom. And trying to picture my mother in the light most favorable, Mom, I love you. And I know that you were also just scared for me. And I know that you were taught this too. And I know that that's probably not your fault. But when I was younger, my mom said, I'm scared that you're going to go to hell. I think that that's a real possibility here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And so I called my mom. And I said, did you say I have something to report? Yes. I have to tell you something that Glennon just fucking just Glennon told me. And so I tell her the whole story. And she said, oh. I don't believe in hell. And I was like, wait, mom, what are you talking about? She said, oh yeah, no, I kind of don't, I don't believe in hell. I don't believe in heaven.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I kind of just think, I think we're all just like, I don't know. I just don't believe in it. And I just, I didn't have the heart because she's going through a really hard time with losing my brother too. I didn't have it in me to be like, What the fuck, mom? But I will say, I think what this really has taught me more than anything, and we'll get to like the little gift that you gave me, Glennon.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
But what this has taught me is to re-examine some of these conditioned beliefs, some of these like deep things that are in us and why they're in us and who taught them to us. And go talk to those people if they actually believe that shit or not still.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
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We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah. We need to be more religiously like fluid. Yeah. I think too, like one of the things that this period of my life has taught me is that I started therapy like two years ago. To work on my shadow side. Thank you, Suzanne Stabile. And it led me down this wild path that I feel like was preparing me for my brother's death in a way. And now my brother's been dead for over a year.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And I can't believe how important it is to do therapy for me. To have done continuous therapy. To get really... focused and understand some of these childhood belief systems that were programmed into me that I believed that I've carried. I've been an adult for a fucking long time. You're not new here. And I've gone through all the things, atheism and agnosticism.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I've done so much work, but still these beliefs that are very young, that come into your body very young, they're hard to...
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
disproven yourself and so like I don't know if you are wondering and if you have some overall like big fears to me what has helped is to understand when they got embedded in me and so this leads to the whole point of this story on Christmas day Glennon my present from Glennon well one of my presents from Glennon She got me this St. Peter medallion and she had it specialty made.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And there's three black diamonds for my brother's kids and one sparkly, normal looking diamond for Peter. And it's St. Peter and he's holding the keys. And so now I wear this almost every single day. And it's so beautiful. Can you tell me? I can't read what's on the back.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
He'd say, relax, I'll take care of it. Or what do you need? Yeah. Yeah. He was like the guy that like would pull over the side of the road and like fix your tire for you for a stranger and would do all like the gardening and clean the pool and paint the pool for my parents at my parents' house. And He was the guy that showed up and did whatever needed to be done.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And what's also exciting about this is like, Do we get to drink in heaven? Oh, my God. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah. So long story short, this was one of the most important gifts you could give me, not just the medallion, but the story that can help me reshape my belief system. And one thing I also know about Peter and Obviously, he would probably wish to be alive no matter what. But if he were going to be dead, I do think he would like to have the power of being the one that gets to decide who's in.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And P.S., everyone, he'll let everybody in. Yeah, right. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Also, so is everyone else. Yeah, yeah. He was just the best guy. And I don't know. I'm just so grateful, Glennon, that you waited for the right time because had you had told me that a year ago before his services and a month after he died or two months, like I might've not been in the place to really land it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Do you remember the look on my face?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yes. All to, all to, all yes to that. And I don't know, like, I think just like in terms of thinking about how much devastation and loss has happened already in 2025 with the fires in LA. Yeah. I don't know. This just brings it very focused to me that material things, quote unquote, don't matter.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
But this makes me feel like I think one of the things when you lose somebody is this contemplation with existence. Like, what is it? And so I've been like concerned with Peter's like existence. And if we will forget or if I will forget memories.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And so like this piece of jewelry that I will wear all the time is like proof not only of existence, but of love of like how I felt about him and how he felt about his people. And that like one day I want to believe I like to believe that maybe one day I will meet him again.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And it was just really profound. And I'm so glad that you have the brain that you have.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Stories could blow up our planet. Stories. That is what turned us. That is what separated us as homo sapiens from our ancestors.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Stories, myths and meaning making.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
So maybe entomology. I think you might have it backwards because I took a course and this is neither here nor there because this is studying and Abby and But entomology is the study of bugs. I was under the impression.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
That is why. That is the exact reason why there is a power in the art. And honestly, I think it's an art of positivity. Not like the kind of, how would you say this? Toxic. Toxic positivity. But the kind of positivity where you're like trying to see the world in the light most favorable. And you're trying to see people in the light most favorable.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And you're trying to curate because the way your perception of your reality is the story that you're telling yourself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And so how are we... out here trying to curate the most optimistic, positive, motivating stories so that like, we can actually enjoy what's happening here. Cause I've, I mean, look, I lived 44 years with this belief that I potentially, I mean, I guess it's 30 years that I'm going to go to hell. The first 14, when it pre-gay, I was totally on the, I was going to heaven. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And then I'm going to hell. It's fucking lunacy. So like what we talk to ourselves about and the stories we tell ourselves matter. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
This has gone. Check it out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
But that's why it's so important to get in touch with yourself. Because so many of us and by the way, like this is me for much of my life where I'm just like unaware of what my story even is. I just think that I'm like living life. But I actually don't understand that like the software and the coding that's been happening all along is in fact the story itself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
That's happening behind the scenes kind of at all times. And so dissecting that with internal family systems with my therapist and it's like, oh, what's that part? And so being able to separate my own consciousness and my own self into all of these parts, figuring out how old these parts are, figuring out what's the story, what's that wound, what is it limiting me and how can I alter that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
and protect and let this very young part know that, Hey, 44 year old, old ass Abby has got herself now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I don't think I've heard this story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Or you can be like Lennon and just hit the trash can.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And the story we're going on from here is Peter, my brother, is at the gates. He will meet you there with your beverage of choice. If it's weed, whatever. He's letting you into a great party.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Okay. Yeah. I just want to say to the folks that are horrifically been affected by these fires, you know, this is just so difficult. I mean, there's nothing you can say. It's a really, really, really, really devastating time for so many people and just love you guys. And we're with you somehow. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
a night sky, you know? Yeah. I woke up this morning and the moon was, I don't know if it was full, but it was shining and you could see it over the ocean. And it was just, it was amazing. And actually I read you the quote that John Mayer said about the fires.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
That's just the proof of existence is so important. And I think that that's one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about this is holiday thing. Should I tell my story? Please, babe. Okay, so... I don't know if anybody is like totally aware of this, but I have had this very large fear of death and I've been working on it for the last couple of years.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
So many things in our lives change, but not our love for Viore clothing. I love this ad. We're so glad that they continue to support the show. It's true. Abby is obsessed with Viore.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I had the distinct honor to work with and through and learn how to embody the grief of losing my brother Peter this past year. Which obviously has been incredibly hard and brutal in moments. And also, it's just been like the most kind of enlightening thing. And it's gotten me to sit with that fear of death. Now, I wish I could say like, I no longer have the fear of death.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I'm still a little uncomfortable with it, to be perfectly honest. Still not your favorite thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Well, I was born and raised in the Catholic faith tradition. And I think that from the time that I started to know that I was queer, lesbian, teenager, I started to kind of wonder, what does this mean?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
And it was interesting because even though at the time everything and people in my life were telling me that I would go to hell, literally, the church was basically telling me in all of the ways that I would go to hell. I was still believing that on some level and knowing that was a possibility in the outcome of my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Do you think you have a favorite item? They're t-shirts. They never get less soft. They're just perfect for everything, for going to dinner, for actively going for a walk, for working out, whatever you want to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I still needed to be gay because I was, it was like almost this choice that I had to make between like, I'm going to be gay. And if that happens, like, this is just who I am. Right. And so all along throughout my life, I've just harbored this,
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I think I need to categorize it more as a misbelief that if I were to do this thing, if I were to be gay and live a gay life, that in fact I would go to hell. And so that was something that I've carried with me. And that has created some serious internalized homophobia inside of my own body, fear of myself, all the things. And not too long ago,
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
You had a conversation with me that kind of pretty much changed my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yeah, I have something to report. And what Glennon proceeded to tell me. And by the way, I actually have like a little bit of like, I can't believe you didn't tell me a year ago.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready yet. Cause I had to go through a grieving process. Anyways, you'll understand folks when I get to the part of the story and I'll get there. I promise. Glennon sits me down and do you want to tell them how you explained it to me? Or do you want me to tell it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
Yes. You know that I didn't fact check it. And there's a difference between like, hey, you know, the weather is this outside. It's important. So she's like, I have something to report. And I'm like, oh. And so that's my knowing. I've got to sit down and be completely ready to listen. Focus in. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
I wear Viore tops all day, every day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Abby’s Greatest Fear & the One Gift that Freed Her
It's everything. I mean, I love them, but it's not easy to find clothes that look sleek and feel comfortable. I mean, I can use them everywhere and anywhere I go. Viore is an investment in your happiness. I promise you. For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase, plus free shipping on any U.S. orders over $75 and free returns.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Well, and I have like a follow-up to that because I'm thinking here about the wounds, the things that kind of propel us into ways of being, whether it's in romantic relationships or friendships or To me, I mean, sister, I think what you said is really important. It's like a way of loving, but I think it's like a way of being seen on like a really deep level.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Here I am offering you this way of being, whether it's through holding steady or being the one on the bow of the Titanic looking for icebergs. Though they look like and feel like very different occupations in a way and very different roles, I feel like it's important that we talk really in depth about the wound, like the real why of that all.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Because to me, like that's something that Glennon and I have had to do a lot of work on. Like, oh, what are these wounds? We do a lot of parts work. But the wound of it and the why of it. Glennon, have you been told your whole life like, oh, you're too much?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
When I'm just thinking about the strife of otherness, because that's what this is. It's like not accepting that we are different. And I think it's amazing because these two qualities are the most essential ingredients to having a successful relationship. So I don't have a question, but I think it's important to discuss the deeper wounds of it before we kind of keep going on in our conversation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And that's happened in our marriage. Yes. I mean, and Glennon was able to actually verbalize how lonely it was being the person on the bow of the Titanic and how when I would placate her or even gaslight her just to keep the peace.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
that was infuriating. So I actually had to do some work on to actually say, yeah, I noticed that too. Oh, yep, I saw that too. And it was like, it was a total game changer for us, for sure.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
It makes you unpolarized.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
That's right. You feel like I don't need to bring it up. That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
One of the things that I think that has been probably the most eye-opening for me is I was so afraid that if I started pointing out all of the things that Glennon brought up, that everything would feel on fire and untenable. And for sure, what you just said is true, that because I have now kind of started to acknowledge the things that I feel are actually fucked up and a little bit fiery.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
The things that she would just blanket name all these things. But now she just doesn't, she doesn't acknowledge some of the things that are less big of a deal. Mm-hmm. Because it feels like dramatic, you know, some of these things. And so it's like this great equalizer that it's happened. And now I find myself being like, God, that felt weird. And she's like, oh, interesting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And we're able to actually not get triggered. We're able to actually see things more clearly because when you're not being acknowledged, everything is high intensity and you have to be on high alert with. Yes. But now it's not.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Can I just say one really quick thing? Because I think this is important, especially for anyone listening who might feel that they are wanting the more change in the relationship and maybe take their partner to therapy and their partners a little bit. you know, hesitant to do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Cause I, not that I've been anti-therapy at all, but I remember a time in my life where I was very stubborn and kind of set in my quote unquote set in my ways. And my biggest issue was that I feared that my partner didn't love who I was now.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And because I was a person and still am in some ways that really like I needed to have that as like the known factor in order to even move my body into any kind of a changing mindset. This is familial old stuff for me for sure. And I think when I found Glennon, I found a partner in me that was able to reinforce that knowing over and over again, because it's like a test.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
A lot of us acceptors who are like stable and grounded, it's almost like this weird thing that we're like, It's self-fulfilling prophecy in a way that we're like testing our partner to see if they really do love us without needing to do anything different.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And I don't know what the fix for that is, but I know that for Glennon, it was the continued reinforcement that she did love me, but she did want us to grow.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
I don't think that that applies to people, but here we go.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yes. Can you say that again? Because I, I think we're speaking to a lot of these changing folks who are peeling back the onion. say it again, slower for those partners who are the accepting folks. It's a very important part of a relationship. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Yes, it is. Glennon is definitely the pusher, the changer, the always trying to, I wouldn't say optimize, but always trying to go deeper. I am this, what would you call me?
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
And on the converse... I mean, this just happened yesterday. The kind of person Glennon is, is so fascinating to me and it inspires me because I see so much progress and growth and deepening in her that I want also for myself. And I always say that she's like one or two years ahead of me in the personal development stuff that she's trying to achieve. And
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
whether it's therapy or whatever, but it's so important for me. I need a model in that way. And also I can do these things and create kind of a center. And I think that it's also providing an opportunity for you, Glennon, When I am in those, like this last year has been a big growth year for me and a big change year for me. And Glennon has held the center.
We Can Do Hard Things
Can You Change Your Partner? With Dr. Alexandra Solomon
She has been so steady and so stable for me that it has given me the courage and the space to be able to actually reach into these kind of corners, darker corners of myself.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
It is what it is. I'm actually going to ask Glennon a question because I want to know what it means to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Well, I think one of the things that this space and this weekend gives me is it allows me to be in my body and experience folks like Muna last night. And to be really, really raw and honest, there's a kind of jealousy that lives in me for their expression and their freedom in their expression.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And I don't know if any of the older lesbians in the room would understand what I'm saying, but I think that... When I watch them perform, I think, you done good, kid. And all of you, and all of you older lesbians who have charted the path, the ones that came before us, you've done good, kid. All of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I have a 15-year-old self, a 10-year-old self who's like, oh, yes, and oh, I'm sad for you. Yeah. And that's all real, and it's so beautiful. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I just am so in touch, and it feels like so many things are happening every single day here that there's just like this instant like, whoa. this doesn't happen in the real world.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And I'm just so grateful for this container because it allows me to see my growth. It allows me to see where I might be falling short or where I still have more growth to make. So it's just such a beautiful and everybody's so lovely and nice. So thank you for being so lovely and nice.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
This is now news to me. She did not tell me this. So we... No, I don't mean I want Muna.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah, the band is Muna. They're incredible.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I just want to preface, like just the onstage with doing this in front of a lot of people, you just were all riled up.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
We've gone down a little Moona track. Let's just bring it back. And we're going to talk about the sexuality thing later.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah, I mean, I grew up kind of hiding and apologizing for my sexuality a lot. It wasn't in any way celebrated, not only in my family, but, you know, in our communities and in our country and the world. And I just felt kind of In all of those little microaggressive moments, I always just felt like, oh, I need to make myself smaller here and apologize for my space that I was occupying.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And so when we got in the car, I was baffled that this five foot two, yes, you are five two, not five four,
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Well, I spent many a day on a team and figuring out what the art of teamwork and teammanship. And Brandy, I still am learning from you and Catherine. it's really an art the way that you collaborate with all the people. And there isn't like this perception of hierarchy that you bring to any stage or any room or any conversation.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
You both are so open and generous with so much of your time and your heart. And I just, honestly, I just think you've chosen such a beautiful path for yourself in life. And I just want to, on behalf of this group, thank you for showing all of us what true community builders can look like and how it can come to fruition on weekends like this. It's really beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah. And just like, don't worry, folks. I was sitting right there the whole time. I don't believe that Glennon wants Muna as her sexuality. Okay. I believe that things are fluid and Glennon has the right to say and be whoever she is.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah. You know? Yeah, that's good. If you're always yourself, then you have nothing to worry about. Like, then it's your battery. Yeah. It's not the world turning the dial for you. You're turning it yourself. And so when you're tired, you're like, I'm out of battery. No problem. Yeah. What do you have to offer me?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Has that ever happened? No, I'm so grateful. Now I know. I'll be like, okay, see you later.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Should we take some questions from these love bugs? I do think it's Q&A time. We have, where are they? Devin, you're right here.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Yeah, thank you so much. And for those who may not know, my brother passed away a year ago. And so this last year has been a little bit of a doozy. And I'm so sorry for your loss. I know that it's tough and confusing. And it feels like the mantra of my year this year is like, I'm good.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And one of the most beautiful things, because I kind of think that this grief thing kind of goes in a circle and it just kind of keeps spiraling. And for me, I've kind of completed this full year circle. And my brother's death is such a big lesson that time will go by quickly unless you're paying attention, right? Like, you ever wake up and you're like, my God, where did that month go?
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
But then there's like a few days or a week that goes by and it's just like so slow. And those slow days are what I'm like aching for. I'm aching for slowness. Not to slow time down, but to be as completely present as possible and to be as completely grateful for
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
for the breath that I have for this experience this weekend to be with you all and Glennon I guess it was like nine ten eleven months after he had passed away told me this beautiful story my brother's name is Peter and she said hey I have this do you want to tell the story
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And so now you go. And so Glennon told me that in the Christian faith, Jesus, one of his apostles was named Peter. And Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And when she told me that, she was like, so, you know, your brother's name is Peter, and so Peter, and you don't know my brother Peter, but he was like the biggest, loveliest teddy bear, welcomed everybody, wanted, he was like, basically, if he was the bouncer at a bar, he would let everyone in. So she was like, so don't you see? Your brother is deciding who gets in. And he's letting you in.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
That is a better story. And I was like this. I mean, tears were rolling down my face. I was like, you have kept this from me for one year? But she knew. She knew I had to be ready to hear it. And so, actually, she ended up giving me this medallion of St. Peter. And it's really beautiful, and I wear it almost every day. And so...
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
In terms of a mantra, like this year I feel like right now I'm good and I don't know, tomorrow I might be like, not. Grief is weird and for me too, as a recovered addict, I didn't realize that the grief that I was going to experience with my brother, I was also going to be dragging the train of grief that I had not yet dealt with. And that was a doozy. It's still a doozy.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
And so it's just something that I have learned to, I've resisted it and now I've learned to accept that grief will now live within me and that I will constantly be returning to it for the rest of my life. And that is okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Right there. Just as a reminder.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
conscious awake and awareness and so you can stay in touch with what is going on without having to be putting yourself in a position where your nervous system is going to get jacked up every single hour of every single day you'll listen okay we'll build it together we'll do it together i'm with you and we'll do it together okay but i think you have the right idea yeah
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
All right, I think we actually have to get to that last question. We're running out of time. Okay, so I'm done with my gender.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Right? That's good. I'm going to do it. I'm going to say that. I am awesome now.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Listen, thank you all for coming today. Thank you. And also, from the bottom of our hearts at We Can Do Hard Things, we really appreciate you tuning in and listening to us week in and week out. We love what we do, and we're going to keep doing it, keep showing up, and we're going to keep showing up for you. We'll see you next time here at Potswana. We love you. We love you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Tish Melton, everybody. Give it up for our daughter.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Do they know that this is an actual podcast that we are recording that will literally be on the We Can Do Hard Things podcast feed? Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
A bit of a... It's our North Star every year now that we've been. This is our second year and we're coming every year. I hope we get invited.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
Brandi Carlile and Katharine Carlile, for those listening.
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I just want to do more of a detailed, like, what is it? So...
We Can Do Hard Things
LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile
I'm saying for the listener who has no idea what we're talking about.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
It's estrogen. That's the empathy, the taking care of everyone around you. That's an evolutionary thing that is wired in us so that the people around us don't die. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
It's hard to sell something to an older woman who has herself. That's it. And what a vision to not only like have those glimpses. I think the dream world vision is not like you want to see us so that you can imagine being this when you're older. So then you can imagine that this is what's ahead. It's the way we used to live is... We're all living this together. Exactly.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
The older people are living with the middle people who are living with the younger people. And so that is all happening at once. So you have an older woman's wisdom in you. Throughout every step of that, you have the younger person's awe and joy every step of that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And we have like such fragmented lives from isolation and from just we're surrounded by people with this very narrow frame of reference on life. And that's at the detriment of all of us. It's a damn shame.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
As my daughter starts to enter into the phase where she will be going through puberty and she will be starting to go through all those stages. I'm like, I want all kinds of women around her all the time. I don't want her only talking to 12 year olds. I want us all to be doing life together at every stage, which would be a goddamn dream. But I think it is relevance is a question of centering.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Thank you so much for having me. that we've selected to be a comforting support system for all of us as we brave this new year. So in addition to our new Tuesday, Thursday episodes and the ones that we're posting on Wednesday as well, please come on Sunday for some togetherness, some support, some soothing Sunday togetherness for 2025. Thank you. We will see you there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Who are you centering? Because I know that now when I go to a concert, I get ma'am'd. left and right. And that was a shock the first time people started like, excuse me, ma'am. And I was like, oh, I'm wearing tight black pants. And someone just called me a ma'am. Like, that's a first. So I know that I am invisible to those 30 year old men.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
But I feel absolutely as visible as I've ever been to the people who are in my orbit. Yeah. I feel more visible than ever. So why are we looking at that 30 year old man's perspective and calling it invisible when in fact it's the first time I've really emerged as visible in my real life ever.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
So we're choosing some random perspective and it's not at all random and calling that true of the whole thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
You were not important to the matter at hand for that man or that woman.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Casey, I love people who ask the questions that everyone's thinking. Like, what the hell do you mean when you say processing emotion? Because there's so many phrases we throw around that's like, truly, what the fuck does that mean?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
But I don't want to be the last one to ask because it seems like everyone's saying it like they know what the fuck it means. I am just learning this, which is why I like Casey because she's talking about the episode from a while back, what we did about when going through the breast cancer situation. And I remember I had not cried yet.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And so I was reading Prentice Hemphill's book where they talk about setting like a date with yourself to do it. And I was like, okay, I know that this is probably something I need to do. And I just don't cry really. And so I set a,
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
time and I went into my basement and I was like this will be the time where I cry about breast cancer and like I put a candle on I put on my friend Wendy's t-shirt that her partner gave me and I put on music and I just cried and it was really good. And then I finished that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Well, I was generous with myself. It was an open-ended, there was about an hour of open-ended time where I could just, sky's the limit, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yeah. I mean, at that point, I think there was probably enough stored in reserve from the prior couple months that I think it was there. However, I will tell you that flash forward many, many moons from that crying date to on yesterday o'clock. I recently have shifted up my meds.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And so I have found myself feeling this strange phenomenon of like, I feel like this is what people must feel before they think they need to cry. Oh. And so I was having like a really, really tough time, you know, and this is relevant to our friend Casey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Everything felt like, you know, when you're like so full of food and there's no room, that's the feeling for me where it's like, everything is so full.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
full like up to my throat and there's no more room even when you're breathing I feel like I can't take a full breath it's just like there's only that little part of my throat that can take the breath in because everything else is too full that's the way it feels to me yeah so it's yesterday I'm feeling like total shit. My therapist comes on a little late to thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And I'm doing that thing where I'm praying that she had to cancel at the last minute. And I'm like, I can get out of this. This is amazing. But then she shows up and I'm like, God damn it. And we start to talk and I'm like, in my head, this is what I'm doing. Okay. I am thinking this is a code red. I can feel it in my throat. I think I might have to cry.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And so in my head, I'm going through the entire day that I have. And I'm looking through to try to find a 30-minute window where I might be able to take care of this thing that I have while I am actively trying to pretend to listen to to a woman who there's an allotted hour of time with a skilled professional to whom I'm paying hundreds of dollars to presumably do things like process my emotion.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yes. So I'm so proud of myself. I told her that. I'm like, right now, what I'm doing, just so you know, is trying to figure out when today I'll be able to cry. Okay. Oh, that's good, sissy. That's such a good start. I did. So this relates to Casey because this is it. Okay. So we talked about it. I'm like, it's not going to work.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
You know how like if you're having sex with someone and you're like, this isn't good. We're not, this isn't going to go there. We should just stop.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
But you're like, can we, this is embarrassing for everyone. Can we just tea and just stop? This isn't going to happen. We can pretend like we're going to keep doing this and it's going to happen, but it's not. This is what I felt with the therapist. I'm like, oh, we're going to do the thing where you're going to be like, try to get it out of me. And it's going to be so awkward for everyone.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
But the, the orgasm thing is relevant truly because my therapist has talked to me about this. It is emotion is a wave. Yes. Okay. So when you're actually processing an emotion, there's all these steps. It's physiological because there's five core emotions, right? Like you don't really process feelings. You process these five core emotions.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And if one comes up and people call it different things, but you basically, the first step is recognizing it, which is like that alone takes like a lot of years, not just thinking, oh, I'm so pissed at... the mail carrier for coming late. It's like, no, you're very sad about something else, you know? So recognizing what you're feeling and then allowing the wave to come.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And that's where I always was like, nope. And I jumped ship, right? Because you have to let the wave crest up and you actually have to feel the shitty, shitty, shittiness in your body and let it all come in order to ride the wave down and finish the cycle. It's like any other physiological cycle. And so you don't get that release. You don't get that catharsis. You don't get that orgasm.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
You don't get that whatever the thing is, if you don't let your body actually ride it all the way up or down and you remain full like that. Yep. And so for me, that's what it feels like. It's the space making in your body that if you actually allow yourself to fully ride that up and down, you're actually not doing anything. You're tolerating something. And the tolerating of it
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
naturally creates what you need. Like the wave crashing makes the water stiller. Yes. That's the way it works. And so that is what processing the emotion is, but it's so petrifying because A, as we've learned that I've learned- It is so impossible for me to do that with someone else.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Like I literally, in this instance, when we're going through it, I covered my face with my hands because it's so awkward to me to have it happen that I just was like, I'm going to need to cover my face for this. And she was like, you just do whatever you have to do. But after it, it flowed through me and there was more room. And I think that's what it is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
But the reason a lot of people don't do it is because it's actually so scary at the very top of the wave. That's where people usually stop because it's so scary. And that's where our fight or flight behaviors come from is that like fear right at the top.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And the physical piece is so huge of it because it's like this crazy circle, right? Because in order to ride through the emotion and create the more space in your body, you have to recognize it. But you can't recognize it until you've gotten so skilled at feeling where it is. And it's also that what your emotions are trying to tell you is how safe and stable and secure you are or not.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
That's what their whole job. That's why there's only five of them. You know, that's why there's things like fear, joy, anger, sadness, disgust. Those are the five things. Why is disgust on that list? Because it's evolutionarily, like we needed to know not to eat that fruit because we would die, because we weren't safe. So these emotions are evolved to keep us safe.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
So that's why when something happens that we don't understand why we're so disproportionately out of our minds about something, it isn't that that thing... is that bad. It's that it touches this place in us that we've never really spent a lot of time living in that feels deeply unsafe around that thing. And then the people who are like, oh, I know what I want.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I know that that person's not good for me. I have a really highly attuned intuition and gut wisdom. It's because they practice this shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Because they can feel it at the slightest nudge. Whereas it takes some of us getting run over by a car to be like, I don't think that was very good. Should have seen that coming. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I'm also right here with everyone. Yes, I'm excited because as fun as it is to talk to all the people, it's very, very fun to talk to our people. And I love when they call in. It's such a delight.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
For the people, like that seems like a fucking lot, a lot of work and thinking about it and feeling it. What I think I'm figuring out is that it's a lot of work either way. The energy that it takes to, To not let your emotions, to not let the wave come, you're putting your body up and trying to stop the wave from coming takes at least as much energy as it takes to actually let it happen.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
So you're using that energy anyway. Yes. So you might as well let it create more room in your life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yeah. And that's so interesting because, Glenn, you said defense mechanisms are trying to avoid our feelings. I think defense mechanisms are survival strategies.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
And a lot of people's survival strategies are don't feel your emotions. Yes. Right. Right. And then you start to get to the sadness of how sad it is. that your survival depended on not feeling your emotions. And so then when you can actually feel them and bring them to your relationship, oh my God, how beautiful and redemptive is that to be able to do in your relationship?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Sweet baby Georgia in her 20s. Why have we not been calling our Q&A episodes queries? Oh my God. It's a really huge mistake.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Maybe we'll bring one of these horses with their water. I feel like that pond thing was irresistible. With their thirst. With their thirst. Maybe they could come on the podcast.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
No one recognizes her anymore. She's sick of talking to us. Just help a sister out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
It's like Liz Gilbert's Eat, Pray, Love, Made Me Do It, but we can do her Things Made Me Do It.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Welcome to the new podcast called Eat, Pray, Love, Made Me Do It.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Let's do an email for that too. And the subject can be made me do it. Made me do it. Made me do it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Yeah. Those are beautiful stories. I think there's a few things, like she was saying... from the posture of, I feel so bad. I don't want to be invisible like that. But also how do I integrate into my life? Which is in some ways what you're saying too. You're saying you want your coven and you want older people there integrated into your life. And I think it's a really good called.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
Just a side note of that we didn't discuss on this is like the intergenerational aspect of it is really wise for people to have older people that they hang out with and younger people that they hang out with. We're learning from all of those folks. And I think it's one of the, just in the very, very recent history of humanity, we have lost that, which is very unfortunate because
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
I think that's why we're a little adrift is that we don't have that wisdom being passed down and passed up. That's an important piece of it. I think of it as like the relevant means important to the matter at hand. And that's the thing, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
We are no longer important to the matter at hand, which is the uber striving and trying to find your identity, the uber striving to prove yourself and your worth and to be desired. I mean, there's plenty of older women that are trying to be desired, but I think they're actually more interested in what they desire as opposed to being desired, which is the shift there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Are Old Women Really Irrelevant?
hey, everybody, we're getting through, aren't we? That's what we're doing. One foot in front of the other, 2025 is looking like it might be a real doozy. And we are in it with you and we're here for you and with you. Recently, our show was selected by Apple as one of their 10 shows we love. And they called it a comforting support system for braving the everyday. And that is
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
First of all, Ernest is absolutely how I would describe you. Yes. Like, holy shit. The best. I just like already love you. I love you. And I just want to say I'm a little bit older than you. And a lot of what you're saying really rings true to a lot of the ways that I felt
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
That is so sweet. I mean, I am sorry. And I actually now I call myself a recovering Catholic. I think that it was not a good place for me to be born and raised.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
in like the late nineties, early two thousands as like a queer lesbian athlete, nobody was really out and on my team in the sports world. And so I, I relate very much to the first, like the first in the world. Yes, there was Ellen and yes, there was Rosie.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Like, yes, there were people that came before me, but it feels like, and I don't know if I'm going to say any of this correctly, so forgive me, but what you're saying is like, there was this fall from grace with beer gate and you're waiting to figure out how to tie it up in a nice little ribbon that makes sense to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And what I can tell you from my experience is that I had to learn that, and you're going to have to help me explain this because I always get this wrong, but when you're the first at something, the amount of questions and the amount of some of my friends and teammates, like being the first at something, like you have to answer the questions that make you not an alien feeling.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Like they're like, how does this work? And so they would ask me all these lesbian questions and about lesbian sex and all the things, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Exactly. And I think that The thing that has brought me so much healing and ease, and my dream and hope for you is that you find this and get this at some point, is like, we've got some queer kids. We have queer children that don't and have not needed to answer those questions. And so cyclically, that is my bow.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
That is what I get to experience as like, oh, that's why I had to go through that shit. That's why I had to go through that really horrible experience time and time and time again. And I'm an easygoing person and I made fun in the right ways and I can poke fun at myself and I can make light of it. But the reality is, is it's extraordinarily painful to be the first.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
To be one of the first to have to answer the stupid questions and to have to be the first and to have to be objectified and have to get comfortable with being objectified and have to get comfortable than being in your own skin. And then then you have to reject it. And so what I'm saying is. I see you. I understand in some ways how maybe you might feel and like Beer Gate.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Come to our house. We want to have you over. Come back to our show. However, we can get you back. We love you very much. Thank you for being on and pod squad. Everybody go get paper doll. Paper doll.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
That's beautiful. And at what age do you recommend starting these conversations?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Well, especially now because kids, especially as they get into their teenage years, they're being exposed to telephones, cell phones, and the internet and social media. And their one-on-one connections become so vulnerable that it is really difficult to have some of these conversations that are super important. Mm-hmm. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And so like what we've found that works in a few ways is just going for a car ride. So there's no get out, Sonia. There's no eye contact. Just lock them in. I mean, listen, Tish and I went on her tour together and we drove 4000 miles and we talked about things that we had never talked about before. It was time. And you're kind of like locked in this seat and you're bored out of your mind.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
So like stuff comes up.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
I'm not a words person like you are. And Glennon, you are and you are, Amanda. And I sometimes feel in my body a little reluctance to want to have some of these difficult conversations, these honest conversations with our kids. And I sometimes defer to Glennon to do it at times. Because she is better with words.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
But what I will say is when I did go on that trip with Tish, I grew so much closer to her. Because we were able to share each other. And I fumbled and it wasn't perfect and all of the things. But I just want to say, like, if you are curious and you might want to start... creating the bond and that relationship with your kid that you're talking about these really difficult things.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Please get this book, read this book that Sonia has written because it is important to know what your kids are thinking. And that is a good basis to start thinking about how you want to start talking about this because it's not going to maybe come to you like this, like it comes in a lightning strike to Glennon. But it will slowly come.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
And as they age and get older and they start asking you questions, you're going to be prepared. Get the freaking book, you guys.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Talk to Kids About Hard Things: Sonya Renee Taylor
Don't like the answer, but know the answer and do not want to do the work to change because the change bit is a tough one for us oldies.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Smartphones bereichern unser Leben. Sie eröffnen uns unzählige Möglichkeiten. Wir streamen unsere Lieblingssongs, teilen besondere Momente und sind überall erreichbar. Doch oft verlieren wir uns im endlosen Scrollen. Nutz das Netz wieder mehr, um dich von neuen Orten inspirieren zu lassen, echte Erlebnisse zu planen und dich mit deinen Liebsten zu verbinden. Go We Live. Leb im Jetzt statt im Netz.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
It's gone. And that's why this book is so profound to me, because it's all of the juiciest, good, golden nuggets in one place.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Shared responsibility. And I think something around what we've done with this podcast and with the conversations we've had with each other and our friends. Wir haben uns erkannt, dass wir uns nur um die 20 Fragen umdrehen. Und ich denke, das ist etwas, was so wunderschön in diesem Buch ist. Denn die Wahrheit ist, ich möchte wirklich mehr verstehen, warum ich so bin. Oder wer bin ich wirklich?
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Spenden wir wirklich immer gute Zeit, über die Frage neben dem Problem zu denken? or the hard thing that's happening. Because I think that that's where so much of our suffering lies, is that we don't know that we're actually asking ourselves a much deeper, more important question than the problem or the hard thing that's happening in our life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
When the three of us were actually in crisis together at the same time about different things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
That's good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
You guys, I'm so excited because I am on the cover with Amanda Doyle and my wife, Glennon Doyle. Like we are co-authors of something. Yeah. Do you have any idea how fucking awesome that is for me? I just cannot believe this is happening. I know. It's finally happening.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Und Valerie und Alison sind auf unserem Team, um es den Leuten zu wissen.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Ich glaube, eines der Dinge, especially now in the time that we're in. We talk about this book being the great connector, knowing that other people are going through similar things that you are. Me too, yes. Oh my gosh, I can't believe that they're writing this. This is a love letter to every one of us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
That's why the tour is going to be so fucking beautiful, because we are going to be together in theaters. around this country to be able to actually feel the experience of what it is to do life together, what it is to be wondering and spiraling around these questions that we're all having. Maybe this book can be your guide. I know it is for me. I know it's been for you, Glennon, and you, Amanda.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Because it's like, and this makes me feel a little bit emotional. As a soccer player, I... was so one-dimensional in so much of myself. And the past 10 years since retiring has gotten me to this place, to this moment. This book has been co-authored with my two best friends. And it's been made out of love and desire and grief. And this excavation, this podcast and this community and the PodSquad
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
I feel like we've gone on a journey together, but it's kind of been in the ether in a way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Yes, but it's also an offering because I don't think this is just about me, you and Amanda. This is all of our stories. This is the map. This is what we get to hand to ourselves. I needed this book more than anything for myself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Well, I think if you've had any takeaway, if you've been walking on the street and you've been listening to this podcast and you've had moments, because I know that this happens in the conversations that we have, you have moments where you're like, oh my gosh, it's so... Wahnsinn. Und dann vergesst du, es zu schreiben. Oder du bist in einer Konversation mit deinem Freund. Das passiert uns immer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Wir sind in einer Konversation und sie sagen etwas, das unser Leben verändert. Aber du willst nicht die Konversation brechen und der Nerd sein, der ein Notebook oder dein Telefon auswählt und es schreibt. Wir haben es für dich gemacht. Das ist ein Buch für dich, deine Freunde, deine Kinder, für deine Leute, mit denen du Leben machst.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Für mich ist das der größte Geschenk, den wir uns selbst gegeben haben.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Für die drei von uns. Und ich möchte auch sagen, dass es niemanden auf der Welt gibt, der mehr auf Tour als dieser Junge liebt. Ich weiß. Oh mein Gott. Und ich bin so gespannt, mit den beiden von euch auf der Bühne zu kommen. Ich bin so gespannt, die Pod Squad in der realen Leben zu sehen. Wir werden einen Blast haben. It's gonna be so fun. Pre-order the book. Buy the tickets. Code the tour.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Vodafone. Together we can.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Hold on. Just before, in case you're about to like, you wanted to listen to the whole podcast, go to treatmedia.com, T-R-E-A-T-M-E-D-I-A.com to pre-order the book and also to get your tickets for the tour. The code is the tour. T-H-E-T-O-U-R.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Can we bring her on stage for one of the events? We're going to force you to do that, Allison.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Who's excited? I'm so excited!
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
I do think I like it too. And I haven't been this excited in a long time. Years.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
So for those who live maybe in the Midwest or up north, like in Rochester, where we say the word tour differently. I just want to make sure that I'm saying it right for all the people so that they know what the code is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Tour. It's tour. And that's what I'm going to die by.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
So if you want to order your tickets, you have to put in the code the tour, not the tour. So some people might write T-O-R-E for the tour.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
So I just wanted to say, it's the tour or the tour, but it's spelled T-H-R-E. E-T-O-U-R. That's the code in order to get your tickets for the tour.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
Like, how can I forget? I was present for the freaking conversation. I was there. Yeah, but we'd have to write it down because we'd be like, yeah, we forgot that thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Our New Book & Tour! The Secret’s Out (password for tour in pod)!
That's the thing about podcasting and conversations that are the hardest for me. Because I'll be walking and I'm an avid podcast listener and somebody will say something and I'm like, damn, that's so good. And I just keep walking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I feel like you just got some new negative or at least like negative seeming information on our conversation on the car ride home the other night. And I feel like that that was net positive.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I don't think that we would be able to do that. I don't think that you'd be able to stare in my eyes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Thanks, babe. I love it. I want to go on a date now. Great. Let's make a bowl.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
Also, can you send in dinner ideas? Okay, let's do that in a different episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
This is a really good app. Somebody make this app where it's like you log all of these ideas and it keeps them in the buckets and then it just like pulls out the ball or the thing and it tells you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
It's like adventure. We went on an adventure last weekend. And I just felt like there was a different vibe in the whole car ride there. And even the whole car ride back, like first of all, like we had never done this thing before and we didn't know how it would go. And it was just for an overnight. So like, I love an adventure.
We Can Do Hard Things
Date Nights: Why they Suck & How to Make them Great
I think it's the same. It's not just about feeling boredom with your partner or knowing them fully. It's also feeling boredom within yourself. Totally.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
You are, oh, oh, man. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah, but what's so cool about you too, Michelle, I'm sure you feel that people are a little reticent to open up to you because of all of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Just comes with a lot of stuff, right? But Craig, you just have this human way about you that actually makes the relationship you both have with each other. It makes me feel so much more capable of being like a normal person around your sister.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
For real. That's true. I'm just so grateful to you for that. And because this is like your sister, like this is how you are. Anyways, we just adore you both. What's your story?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Well, my advice, it's funny, Michelle, you had kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier, but we have a 16-year-old, a 19-year-old, and a 22-year-old. Kids that are a little bit younger than yours and I think a little bit younger than yours.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Oh, yeah, yeah. He's got the older ones.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Right, right, right. Yes. Love it. In about a year or so, we'll become empty nesters, technically. We have artists in our family, so I think they'll probably live with us after college.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Follow your dreams, we said. But I think that one of the things that I'm trying to cultivate in myself is my own life outside of them right now. I want to be prepared for this empty nest moment. And I think there's something that you said you actually were so generous to let us include it in our new book. But this is actually advice from you, Michelle, around children and raising kids.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
You say it was our job all along as parents to get them to a place of not needing us. We can't wait until our kids are 23 and out of the house to teach them that they can get themselves up in the morning, that they can handle their homework. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I'm going to read Craig's because I see a lot of sportsy things in here. He's amazing. Craig Robinson. He's the biggest love bug. I love him. He is the executive director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches and host of the Higher Ground podcast, Ways to Win.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And from 2017 to 2020, he served as the vice president of player development and minor league operations for the NBA's New York Knicks. Previously, he was a Division I head men's basketball coach at Oregon State and Brown and spent more than a decade working as a trader in the investment banking industry. He is the brother of former First Lady Michelle Obama.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And if you're interested, you should check out both of their podcasts. They're doing it together. It's called In My Opinion, IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Human. Michelle is just, she's just the absolute best. I love her and we are so grateful for them to be on and for them having us on their podcast. Y'all just listen to this one. Enjoy it. It was a joy to do. It was touching.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And if it is a love, a joy and a passion, I didn't know that I was going to make a career out of playing soccer. There was no way that I was going to do it. I just, I mean, I was in eighth grade before Olympics was women's soccer was in the Olympics and I was writing, I'm going to win a gold medal playing women's soccer one day.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We can dream things into reality. So that would be my advice. Yeah. I like that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah. How about you, babe, before we go?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Now it's going to happen.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Well, love you guys. Thank you so much. Pod squad. We will see you next time. Absolutely.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I.M.O. I.M.O. What did I say? You said M.I.O. You're just dyslexic about it. That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah. Yeah. But you got to be careful because, you know, with teenagers, I was watching this thing the other day and a lot of streamers and networks, they're making content and the words that they use are second screens. So when your children are watching, is it second screen material enough for them to also be on their phone? Is it something that isn't as detail oriented?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
So when we're sitting on the couch with our kids and they pick up their phones, I want to like go over there and snatch the phone out of their hands, like watch the show with us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Manifestation is for the privileged. It's for the few who don't have these huge brick walls as obstacles in front of them. I think that that's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
You know, there's only... There's these like... White manifestation is different. Like white lady manifestation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
So I feel... I guess the word is conflicted, but I feel like there's a paradox within me around this because I 100% believe that manifestation works when it works. And I also 100% believe that there is a reality that it's full of shit. And I guess the only thing that it makes me feel a little bit better believing that we have this like
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
unknowable and unseeable connection with the world and our lives and the outcomes. It makes me feel like, I mean, when I was playing soccer and I've talked about this on the pod before, but the book, the secret, the Celestine prophecy, the movie, what the bleep do we know? I don't know if you guys ever saw the movie. What the bleep do we know? Well, like everything is matter in the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And part of this movie in terms of like our bodies being water is And us being able to literally look at the molecules in the chemistry of water when you like send positive energy and loving thoughts towards it, it actually makes the water molecules different looking than when you send angry and mean energy towards water. Now, I know this sounds so wild and... It doesn't.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But like, I want to believe that I, me, in my body... can affect we and the world in a way. And I'm not saying like, I'm going to make the world a better place, but I believe, and I believed on the soccer field that if I energetically believed and manifested and had an intention of some beautiful outcome, And I was tapped into myself enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And I was also tapped into the energy of my teammates and the energy of the crowd and the energy of the millions of people watching on television that I believed that there was more of a chance we could win. Now, we didn't win every game. So this philosophy and idea falls flat because we didn't win every game. I didn't manifest the win every time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
But then there has to be this like reality and acceptance of the universe actually having a part to play in the roles of how all of our lives kind of unfold. Because so much of what happens is a matter of timing. When we were born, the generation we are living through, the things that are happening, like these trends and forces that are outside of ourselves that we don't have much control over.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And then how we like pivot and interact within all of it. So I 100% believe in manifestation and also in the same breath. I also 100% think it's fucking bullshit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Because scientifically it's called imagery. It's called imagining something because it's creation, right? Like you're creating something out of nothing. And how do you know where you're going unless you've created it in your mind already? The blueprint.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Yeah, I think one of the things, sister, that you were just saying about like one of the pathways here is like the universe conspiring on your side and good things will happen to you, right? Karma, all this stuff. Mm-hmm. I actually don't believe that the universe is conspiring for us. Oh, I don't. I will not since my brothers died.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
When he died, I went through like a really troubling process of therapy and where I had to get really honest with myself and confronted about the question of like, if you're a good person, then good things happen to you. And I think that that's where part of this, like, you know, the universe is conspiring in your favor. I think the universe is happening. The things are happening.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And how you interact and perceive what is happening is the important part. Because you know, I'm at least now at a place where, of course, I wish my brother were alive. But I'm also like, wow, this has taught me so much. And I'm having some gratitude around the difficulty and the grief and the trouble that this has caused me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
At first, last year, I was in the trouble of it and it was excruciating and I hated it and I didn't want to be participating with it, but I stuck with it. And now it's like, so the way we think about the universe happening to us, the way we interact with our thoughts around the the world that is happening to us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
To me, in terms of being a pretty positive and optimistic person, I don't know if this is something that you can teach yourself, sister. I'm sure you know more about that, but I want to live in a life for the brief time that I'm here feeling like not that the universe is going to, but that I'm going to have a very interesting experience. And I want to believe that certain outcomes are possible.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
A little treat from me to you. Yeah. And also just for those listening, like you guys don't understand how much joy this is bringing Glennon. Every morning I walk upstairs to get my coffee and she's like, I did it. I wrote a thing. I did it. And she's doing it every single morning. And it's so fun for her and the joy that it is making and bringing to our family. It's been a full on real treat.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
I want to believe that there are certain things that I can do that will allow the universe to teach me the lessons that I meant to learn here during earth school, as Liz Gilbert says.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
All right, you guys go to glennandoyle.com. You're going to see a signup box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address. And if you're on Instagram, go to the page, click the link in the bio, sign up for the newsletter. It's the second button. You can do it. We love you. It's going to be a treat.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
That's interesting. Can I tell you the story? Yes. So I am listening to Sapiens, the Yuval Noah Harari book. And this book is blowing my mind. It's been out for years. And part of the book, it's talking about like evolution and how we are descendants of Neanderthals. And one of the things that is just like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
really, really coming to me right now is that I think that where we are as a Homo sapiens animal, where we live on the evolution timeline is I think that we are in an in-between space. Because you can imagine the early ancestors, our early ancestors,
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And them figuring out, and he writes about it in this book, that they had to figure out how to defeat the Neanderthals to be able to take over the world. And part of the defeat was the evolution of a Homo sapien was that they told myths and stories. So our consciousness, our cognitive revolution is what he called it, the ways in which our brains are different.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
than those of the Neanderthals and the other cousins of the Homo sapien. To me, it's like we're living in a story that has been told over and over again and has been risen up and brought down with different regimes and empires, all of it. But I just wonder, like, where are we on the timeline here of our evolution? Where else will we gain access?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And I do think that this kind of thinking, I do think science matched with spirituality and humanity. It's a fascinating thing to me to think about that the way that we evolve and societies are formed and cultures are formed and little families are formed is by the stories we tell about it. And the stories that then get embedded into us. So we are a storytelling-driven species.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And so it's like, if you break that down just into the individual, it's like, okay, what are the stories that have been embedded into the software of me? Are those stories aligned with the way I want to live my life? Are they aligned with society? Are they aligned with culture? If not, I mean, freaking psychedelic stuff.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
We could go down the psychedelic route here and unwind and try to get into what these little embedded stories are, whether they're the ones that you want to be carrying or not, pull them to the top, bring them to the top of your consciousness to be like, sort it out. Oh, no, I don't want to do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
So I say all of this is like, if people are more interested in this Sapiens book, I'm fascinated by this idea right now. And I really do think that we are in an in-between space where maybe the next, you know, thousand years, by the way, I'm not talking about like the next generation or Gen Alpha, like in a thousand years, maybe we'll be able to tap into this other thing. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Hello. Oh, gosh. I, you know what? What, babe? I really was excited about this episode today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Yes. You were? In past tense, you said I was excited. Are you no longer? No. In the past, I've been excited about this because it's so beyond me. in a way, but thinking about it. And it requires a different level of preparation. So I've left all of my brain outside and I've just come with my spirit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Right. You know what? We're not even going to tell you what the email or the phone number is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
And the reason why... Why did you say it so bizarrely?
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Oh, I love that book. I was so in that book. Of course you did. God, that book was the best. Wait, wait. You loved that book. Oh, Law of Attraction, the whole thing. I went down, I bought the videos. I bought all of that shit.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
It was, by the way, I just started living on my own. I think this is like an 05-ish. It was 06.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Yeah. And I just got my first little condo. I was living by the beach in Los Angeles and I was like really feeling myself. And at the time as like a new adult, it's like 25. I felt like I needed to have a kind of belief system because I had just exited the Catholic church and I didn't have much. Atheism felt kind of lonely.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
There's not like a group, or at least there wasn't at the time that I knew about that I could attach myself to. And then this book and this philosophy kind of came out and I think Oprah was all into it also. So I just like dove in and I was like, oh, this is like so interesting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
The spiritual world, like it gave me access to the spiritual world that I knew like the Catholic religion was giving to people who firmly believed in Christianity, Catholicism.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Well, it's like these different ways of thinking about it. So one of them is like law of attraction. Right. That was like a huge thing that I was really trying to understand more about myself, trying to understand, like being on the national team. And I don't know, I was just trying to evolve that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
In spiritual, mental and emotional ways that was going to help me become a better leader and a better soccer player. Like that's what my goal for this was. And I don't remember every single rule or law that was written in the secret, but I just remember the feeling of feeling like this is religion, but in the spiritual way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
the life that you want. And believe. Like, I think that there's a belief system that has to be a part of, I don't know, for me, like when I think about the reality coming true of the life that you dream of, you have to believe in its existence before you actually enter into it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
Yes, but I totally disagree with you. I think that at least the form of manifestation that I ascribe to you it's not just a calculation with me and myself and my thoughts. It is a calculation with me, myself, my thoughts, and the energies of the world and your energy and our kids' energy. I am trying to cultivate and manifest using all of the different energies.
We Can Do Hard Things
Manifestation: Is it Real or BS?
It's not just like, oh, only, and I understand that some people only ascribe to like, your thoughts will create your life. I get that. That is not how I interpret life. my form of manifestation at all.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Finding a great mentor who can really help me level up, it's not easy. But my dream mentor, Jodi Foster, she's our friend. So when I heard that she had a class on Masterclass, I was so excited to learn from her. Masterclass is the ultimate way to learn from the best to become your best. It's the only platform where you can access over 200 world-renowned instructors.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Navigating otherness. Isn't it fun?
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And so it's really tricky. Doesn't this kind of just the way you describe it then just made me like really see that it's illuminating the possible shared reality that might not be aligned so one person might be in a different place connectivity wise to their other partner and that is why the conflicts happen
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
because maybe the 90 of the time glenn and i are fine it's because we are connected and we do trust each other and we do give each other the benefit of the doubt and then this other period of time maybe one partner feels a little less connected and so when these moments happen it's like what is the not just the wound but like what is the actual state of where we are as a couple
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
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What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
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We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
The way that you explained it made me think of like creativity on one end of the spectrum and And reality and truth on the other. So you're saying an artist, their job is to look out and see what is true, what is happening, and to be extraordinarily honest.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And I think that that's one of the things that I think about you that I respect and admire so much is your ability to see what is happening and to be honest about it. So many of us, myself included... We walk around the world and I want to pretend that reality is somewhere more in the middle, in between a beautiful version, a different version of heaven. And then artists live on the truth side.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And what you're saying is the vision is over on the other side of the spectrum. And the anxiety, I think, lives when you are just in the noticing of what is. rather than trying to go and create what it could be. So does this make any sense? There's a spectrum and one side is the way things are and the other side is the way things could be.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And that gap is where some artists might experience this anxiety where you're closer to the way things are before we get to the way things could be.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
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We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
One thing I remember was a concern of yours when you were at the early stages of your eating disorder diagnosis and the recovery was this kind of
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
correlation between anxiety and creativity and that when you are tapped into this kind of anxiety and depression and all of that comes with it, I think that there was a part of you because you're an artist and you do kind of, and have kind of swayed between these two poles. I think you were nervous if you were going to actually get well and maybe you
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
deal with this anxiety and depression that would there be any creativity left could you muster the creativity is the anxiety something inside of you that's creating the creativity exactly I do worry about that and I don't have a like a super great answer I haven't figured it out completely but I'll tell you I've written 50,000 words I've written a book's worth of
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Okay, then I propose we change the name of this podcast.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
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We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
I think that this is like really interesting and helpful the way that you're kind of framing it, Sissy, and you too, Glennon. And I think one of the things that I've noticed in our marriage that this happens to us because Glennon also likes to have fun and the wit and who can like land the thing the fastest, like that's part of our marriage dynamic. And I think that rather than focusing on for us.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
No, I think that we do have a way with each other that the way we sometimes we tease and we like have fun. And I do. I think that we're like playful with each other. Ninety percent of the time. Here we go. It lands. And then there's this 10% gray area where it doesn't.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And Susie, I love that you're talking about the specificity of some of this like jokey, teasy behavior, because I think that's really helpful. I also think that sometimes the 10% gray area just has to do with where we are both at in our collective day, in our collective emotional state. And so it's this being in touch with your partner. And sometimes Glennon will have to say like, I'm in the 10%.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
And so it's like really helpful for me to be like, okay, like,
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
Yeah, well, this is what I was going to say. I think it's important to actually think about the way in which we're all trying to connect in this jokey, teasy way. Because I think all of us tend to do it. But what I have actually figured out, which is maybe why you don't think that we tease or joke very much, it's because I actually think
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
that the teasing and joking is trying to communicate something actually real without saying, that really bothers me. It's a cover. And then the partner gets defensive. Like, no, I was just joking.
We Can Do Hard Things
What If My Partner’s Jokes Hurt My Feelings?
You have to be honest about what you're doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Oh, that's so beautiful.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Well, it's so beautiful, too, because when I think about rituals that I do with people, when I'm mad at them, I don't want to do it.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So it is a mark that is beyond me. our daily bullshit too, right? It's like communities ritual of going to church or ritual of the neighborhood Christmas lighting or ritual of So much shit could have gone on that year. Neighbors could be mad at each other. Congregants could be fighting. And yet we come back together and we do this thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So it is almost like it's a celebration of human nature and a protection from human nature.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Hi, PodSquad. I've been waiting for this episode for a very long time, ever since I started hearing from our guest who is on today, who is going to be talking to us about ritual. And I am delighted about this conversation because I am completely obsessed with rituals. That's all I do all day. So I cannot wait to get into this today.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I like it. And... His TEDx talk, How to Buy Happiness, has been viewed more than 4.5 million times. Michael, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So that reminds me of the drought that young parents have of sleep. I have heard you talk about why it is that we create elaborate rain dances every night for our children to go to bed. I had to read the good night moon. We had to look for four pictures. It had to be at like 749. We had to sing certain songs. We had to have the certain blue passy. And I heard you say, It's so funny.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So this podcast is largely about how to make life more meaningful or how to notice that it already is, okay? So in this conversation, we really do want the pod squad to take away ideas about why ritual matters and how we can use it to add meaning to our individual lives, our relational lives, our families, and our communities. So to that end, can you first start by telling us what is a ritual?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I don't think we did any of that stuff for our kid. I think it just helped us have some measure of control over this uncontrollable thing. You can control whether a child's going to sleep about as much as you can control whether it's going to rain.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
And it's frayed. It's a frayed time. Parents fray. When your sleep is scarce, it is hard not to turn on each other, just like any community. And I wonder, now that you're speaking, if that sort of ritual also brings you back to each other. We know we're going to do these things each night. parents have gotten through this for centuries before. We will survive this.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Can you talk a little bit about the relationship between control and ritual? Because I am a person who struggled with all different kinds of control issues for so long. And it's curious to me that I am so reliant on ritual for someone who has tried to find 7 million different ways to control the cosmos. And talk to us about, was it the pigeons?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
There's some control story here that's really helpful to me. Yeah, the pigeons. Tell us about that.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Yeah. And what is the difference between superstition and ritual?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
It's like reverse psychology and God or something, because it's like whatever God is, it's an entity looking down at us like we're a bunch of little pigeons. Oh, there she goes with her candle. There she goes with her tarot cards. There she goes with it. And we're just like, bop, bop, bop, five things. And it's all random.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
That's what religion is. I mean, I'm spiritual, I'm religious, whatever the hell that means. And I always think, is this just a bunch of superstitions we're doing? Like, at what point does prayer and religion go over to... Okay, here's how I, in my life... Michael's like, don't ask me that question.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Okay, anyway, this is how I, in my own self, monitor when I'm keeling over towards weird compulsive superstition as opposed to ritual. Which is, for me, when I'm in ritual, it's because I am there to remember a reality that already exists. When I move to superstition, it's when I start believing I am creating a reality with the action. So it happens to me.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
If I have a weird morning and I can't do my candle and I can't do my meeting and I can't do whatever, and then I'm like, well, I'm fucked. Or if anything goes bad that day, I'm like, well, what did I expect? I didn't do my candle.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Well, I would think that the... ultimate goal of ritual. It's like meditation. You meditate on your mat 20 minutes a day, not just so that those 20 minutes will, you'll remember that you're not your thoughts and you can find peace, but so that eventually off the mat during the day, you can tap back into that reality and remember. And for me, ritual is the same.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Why are you looking at me, Michael? Okay. Well, I understand like when I wake up, I have all kinds of morning rituals, but I do brush my teeth first.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So if ritual is working correctly, I can just remember the candle. I can have micro doses of of remembering what I was trying to formally remember in that moment. That it's always there. It's just something you can tap back into off the mat or off the ritual.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
That's what I really believe, actually. We're ridiculous. I really do think I believe that shit that he just said. And I believe that the being will be like, all right, but you guys, whoever you guys is, I don't know. You guys is the beings. Council. Team. I don't know. Friends. They'll be like, okay, but you guys, she did do it on Tuesday.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So I know it's Thursday, but we can probably give her a break until at least Friday. But if she does not show up for that candle on Friday, all hell's going to break loose.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Okay, here's another reason that I think ritual is important. First of all, to remember the reality that there's more going on here. There's a magical... whatever love connection that is going on beneath and around all of our mechanical adulting.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
You drink your coffee. You go upstairs. You make your coffee and drink your coffee before you brush your teeth. Kind of makes sense.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I guess I just mean anybody who's remembering that they want to remember that they're not a robot. That they're not just some means to capitalistic ends. It has nothing human about them anymore. It's like when you're over adulting and you just want a human. And then tied to that is the idea of wanting to feel it all.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Wanting to feel the entire human existence, which we don't get to do inside of our daily lives. And don't get to do through habits. Because I am so annoyed by habits often. Because it just feels like Abby's a habit person. And I just feel so bossed around and I feel like it's just wanting me to be habits, want me to be happy all the time. They want me to be optimized. Optimized. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
And I actually don't want to be optimized all day. And I actually don't believe that the purpose of being human is being happy. I go after my little candle, Michael, and my morning pages. Almost every morning I go to a 12-step meeting. And I think, why am I doing this? It's on my Zoom and... It's because with those people and their stories, before I start my freaking adulting day,
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I get to hear life. I get to hear people who are struggling. I get to hear people who are real and in pain and in loss and in triumph. And it's like, I get to have the full human experience and that is what's most important to me. And then I can get on with the day. So can you talk to us about emo diversity, which is like, gotta be my favorite new word.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Not keeping them if they're not working is a beautiful ritual in itself. I just discovered last week That a beautiful ritual that I have with my family, which is putting up the Christmas tree, which to me symbolizes family togetherness and joy, turns out is a slice of hell for my children. Because all I do is yell at everyone for not separating the branches.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
They just admitted to me that they are all on a group chat. You're not yelling. Talking about... Let's be real. How for them, it's the opposite of... Which was an interesting moment for me. I was like, oh, that's so sad and also so happy because now I get to do it my damn self. And we'll think of something else that symbolizes family togetherness.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So the evolution and letting go of something that has meaning to you and does not mean the same to the rest of the family is a whole nother thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I told you so ritual. Yes, for sure. Yes. Michael, I love your work. I think it's so important. And PodSquad, if you could call in 747-200-5307. Yeah. Call that number. Tell us your rituals. We're going to make more. We're going to add more meaning to our beautiful lives. And we're going to just make sure that we're humaning while we're adulting.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Yeah. Michael, thank you so much for this time. Thank you all. We're going to make sure everybody gets your book and it's beautiful work you're doing. Yeah. Thank you, PodSquad. Great to chat. See you next time. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Okay, so I know this is a complicated answer, but why do we need ritual? Or do we? Do human beings need ritual? And if so, why? What's the why of anything?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts.
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The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Obviously, when you think of rituals, you think of Michael Norton, who is a professor at Harvard Business School. He is the author of The Ritual Effect, From Habit to Ritual, Harness the Surprising Power of Everyday Actions, and the co-author with Elizabeth Dunn of Happy Money, The Science of Happier Spending. Ooh, I haven't read that, Michael Norton.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Okay, so I've been trying to think about why ritual is important for me since I started listening to your work. And one of the reasons is that I think that ritual for me is the closest replacement that I have had to drugs and alcohol. Now, I know that sounds weird, but I'm an addict, so I can't. I've lost my privileges, okay?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
But I have always felt like the world we are living in, the day-to-day, the meetings, the situations, the adulting, all of it is so effing insufficient. OK, I don't know if boring is the right word, but it's just like I always have this feeling that I want to say, do you all know what's going on here? Like we're on a planet and we're all going to die and we're going to lose each other.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
And oh, my God, dogs and rainbows and death. And OK, so there's this feeling when you first start drinking or you first start doing drugs, this feeling of like exactly right. Like, drugs gets it. Yes, drugs gets it. Okay, Michael, first of all, is this sounding insane to you? You can stop me at any time. Sounds perfectly smart to me, actually.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Yes, like this reminder or proof or unveiling of magic.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Yeah. So like with drugs or hallucinogenic or whatever, every drug... intensified falsely and then I ended up in handcuffs, whatever. But for a moment, for one brief moment, we were gods, Michael. Like we saw the magic behind the ordinary. We loved each other more. Nature was as gorgeous as it is.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I need to read that one and already have you back for that. Okay, his research, most importantly... has been the answer to Final Jeopardy.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Spiritual, you know, the closest I would come to the feeling of it was when I was little in church and all the incense. Even the fire and brimstone and the stained glass. And I was like, oh shit, like I can feel the magic here. Ritual is how I remember magic.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So when I wake up in the morning, every morning I go to this little teeny table in my living room and I light a candle and I sit there and I do my little morning pages. And I have to smell the can. It's like everything is magic for a little bit. And it's like that moment where I'm like, there is more going on here. I am not just a robot adult who's going to do my to-do list and blah, blah, blah.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
There is more going on. Is this a thing?
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I mean... I want to be the final Jeopardy answer. That's legit. Now, wait a minute. I have a follow-up question. Did anyone get the answer right? They did.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Yeah. And it's like, If you're using ritual, yes, to evoke a certain feeling or the way I would describe it is to remember a reality. That's how I feel about it is like, I want to remember that there's more going on here than just what I'm seeing in front of me in adulting land. Then rituals inside of relationships.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
Yeah, I will admit, Abby and I have been the answers on Jeopardy three times, which all of a sudden you feel, oh my God, I am so... Very fancy and important. But all three times, nobody's got the answer. Nobody gets the answer. So then that makes you feel suddenly like I am not at all fancy and relevant.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
So that would be the individual for me the morning, but rituals inside of relationship are how we stop and say, there is more going on here than what we're seeing. Like The cake is, I'm not just, this is magic. We love each other. And we are marking this time of like letting go of who we were and going towards who we are. Or I'm sitting with my partner.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
I mean, I've heard you tell the story about the couple that just clinks their forks before every single meal. Abby and I started doing it. Stole it. Oh, I love that.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Rituals that Make a Magical Life with Michael Norton
But it's like this little second of like, there's more going on here. We are not just people running this household together. There's another reality that let's remember it every once in a while, which is that we are these two souls who've come together to do this ridiculous thing called life. And isn't that insanely beautiful and weird? Clink.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. How are we all doing today?
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Does it feel a little like a relief? Because the way that I think about it, it's like a parent going to a sports event or a soccer game and they've got to set up all the chairs just right. And they got to put the umbrella up and they got to have a little cooler of drinks and snacks and stuff. Rather than just getting to just sit on the grass and watch.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And it's not just watching. You get to experience seeing how they move through the world in their weird ways. And P.S. Some ways I would not move that way. No, I would not move that way. I would not move that way. But that's so cool.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Yeah. I just want to be clear.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Did you, what about green? I mean, listen, it's not easy getting you presents. And this was a big one because I had to like, There's no take backs. Yes. No take back.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Can't fuck with the art.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
But the list is invisible. And didn't share with them. Yeah, the list is invisible and in your head. True. True. That is because it would be a bridge too far.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
You want to know a little bit of a hack that you can either share with your spouse or yourself. Okay. And sister, I'm telling you this. A little bit of a hack prior to birthdays, gift giving moments, holidays, is have your person write out the things that they really loved about the prior year.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
I don't know. Glennon's still got some problems. All right. All right. All right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
So my mom every year asks us for a list of things that we are supposed to write down and then she puts it on an ornament. So I have 25, 30 of these little ornaments with all of the things that happened that year that were important to me. That's so awesome. And so Glennon does it and our kids do it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And I now have just hacked Glennon's gift giving where I consult her list and I look at the things on her list as to what is the most important thing that happened to her that year. And so I had already gotten the ring going and I hadn't thought maybe this is going to be it, but it was confirmed because she put C F T A.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Oh, I was like, I did not say fuck on Nana's list.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
No, you just wrote the letters.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Okay. What is that called? The initials. Initials.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Acronym. Yeah. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
There's all of that. I do some of that. She usually does like two. Two real things. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And so that's when I was like, it was confirmation. And I emailed Thea and I was like, can't fuck with the art. Make it engraved. And you can't take it back. And I also learned this. Glennon just likes jewelry. I do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
So I get a plethora of things. I get a few things that she can take back. One thing she cannot, the main present. And then I get a few things that are kind of joint presents that we will both use. That's how I cover my basis. But evidently she's worked on herself so that like gift giving is no longer an issue. But it's been.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Good job. Good job, honey. Thank you, babe.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
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We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Only available with TurboTax Live full service. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. See guarantee details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. I want to talk a little bit about the story you told about Bobby. I don't know about you guys, but for me, you could be a terrible student.
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Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And if you have that heart and mind where you're paying attention and then also deducing and figuring out, wait, today's New Year's Eve. I mean, he's 12. That is so incredible to me that like. Obviously, people would think that sports are really important. Be a terrible athlete, but be that. That's something I want to like see.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And I just think that, God, that's so cool that you were able to create a space for To do the DoorDash thing. Cause like, I also think it's important for kids to like see that stuff. So often the food just shows up on the table. They don't understand.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Like, good job, man. I'm going to text him later. Not about this. Just like, I think you're cool.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Let's do like one day a month.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Yeah. And you're stuck in the car and you run out of things to think about. Oftentimes in your own city, you're thinking about your own stuff or whatever. The phone gets tiring or whatever. And so you actually just start talking to each other. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Go on a road trip. I want to go on a road trip.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
That actually got me excited about a road trip. Take it easy. We love you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
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We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Yeah, but I just want to be clear. We have kids that have ranged, they're five years apart. And I think it's important to note that where each of them are in their lives is in vastly different areas. Like when you're 16 versus 18 versus 21, those are very different stages of life that require very different. And we're in the middle of all of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
So the youngest and the oldest, they're six years apart, five years apart. And the youngest, she's getting pretty baked, but we still have to be there with her because she's baking herself. They're baking themselves, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
But it's hard to figure out the balance of when to do the shift because you do have to loosen your... And I actually just think that the net metaphor, I love it. But I think the net is this fake belief that we need in order to be a parent.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
Yes, we are. We're just like a section of the net. We're like a few of the strings woven in their net. They are weaving it with their friends, with their sisters and brothers, with with their other parents, with their other extended family. With their God, if they have one. But I do think that this is a thing that mothers feel. It's this idea.
We Can Do Hard Things
Glennon: You Can’t F With Art & Other Parenting Lessons
And I don't know if this is a need for worthiness or this is my life's work idea, but I do think that the net, we need to consider what is the net. Is there in fact a net that you have been holding up underneath these children forever? I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
A little treat from me to you. Yeah. And also just for those listening, like you guys don't understand how much joy this is bringing Glennon. Every morning I walk upstairs to get my coffee and she's like, I did it. I wrote a thing. I did it. And she's doing it every single morning. And it's so fun for her and the joy that it is making and bringing to our family. It's been a full on real treat.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
This is why it was so difficult for me in a professional sport. I played soccer for a long, long time. And I think that this is why it was so difficult for me to understand happiness for myself in it. Because all of us in this weird way had these arbitrary goals that would deem us successful.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
And I never was able to like look outside of the box and figure out actually what I was in it for myself for. Because we collectively kind of buy into this idea that winning is the thing. And so the older I got, the more mature I got. And I think maybe the happier I got in some ways because I was like, oh, this is more than just winning.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
But I had to actually do that personal work to figure it out for myself rather than just like take on the group think idea of what I thought was going to be the thing that made me the happiest. Totally.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
Yeah. All right, you guys go to glennandoyle.com. You're going to see a signup box in the top middle of the page where you can submit your email address. And if you're on Instagram, go to the page, click the link in the bio, sign up for the newsletter. It's the second button. You can do it. We love you. It's going to be a treat.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
That's good.
We Can Do Hard Things
One Change to Go From Being Time Poor to Time Rich with Cassie Holmes
It's a non-newsletter. No newsletter. Bye.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
So many things in our lives change, but not our love for Viore clothing. I love this ad. We're so glad that they continue to support the show. It's true. Abby is obsessed with Viore. I am a little bit too. Do you think you have a favorite item? They're t-shirts. They never get less soft.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash hard things. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things. netsuite.com slash hard things.
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Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Brittany, first of all, and Rebecca, thank you for being here. It just matters so much to me and our pod squad. And one of the things, and I don't mean to dumb this experience that I'm going to talk about right now down in any way and compare it to what we're going through, but I think it's relevant. I think a lot of people, the ones that we talked to this last weekend at Brandy's Festival.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
And so I've been thinking about yesterday too, like how am I interacting with what happened and the reality of what happened emotionally and mentally? I'm not thinking about action right now. That's not where I'm at. And it made me think a lot about the way that when I would lose a big tournament playing soccer, and how I responded in the moment that the tournament was over and we've just lost.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
And I had to look at the winners. And by looking at the winners, by not turning away, by not crumbling, by having some sense of humility inside of me and watching them celebrate the thing that I wanted, allowed me to accept what has happened. I think that a lot of us are in this in-between.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
We've been in this purgatory since election day to now in this kind of quasi-acceptance of what's happened, like the question of what is going to happen. And so before the actions can begin, I think that we have to genuinely accept not only what has happened, but that this is where our country is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
Guess what happens? When you accept what happens, something in you changes. when you are in resistance of what has happened, then you are just like, bitching and complaining about what's happened rather than accepting what's happened. And then you can move into real, authentic, true leadership in the actions. Yeah, that's the stone.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
And P.S., we're recording this the day after the inauguration. Right. This is going up on Thursday. Right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Post-Inauguration Family Meeting: How We Will Get Through with Brittney Cooper & Rebecca Traister
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We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Hi. Can I tell a brief little quick story about Justina and I's first real meeting?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
Do you remember this, Justina?
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
So we were doing this exercise of, I don't know, it was like an opening up. There's many women there. This is the first time we've met all of each other. And we had to... Go to a stranger and stare into said stranger's eyes and thank God Justina was my partner for this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
That's right. That's so good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And you and I, we have a closeness now because of this eye-staring contest that we got into. And I just want to say it was super awkward and weird. And then now knowing you, it's like, oh, my God, that's hilarious. So I just want to say that because I think that it's perfect. Justina.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
I am a former Olympian, although you're allowed to say Olympian forever. I've done all the things physically that a person could do in the soccer world. And never, not one day in my life have I ever wanted to go work out. Never, not once. And so I say this to you as hopefully like some relief.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And I don't even know if we're talking about working out, but the eating well and like, you know, the working out, like all that. To me, it's maintenance energy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And I have no answer for you, but like just to know that like you have somebody also that struggles with maintenance energy and that person was an extraordinary athlete. And that's the mindset that I had my whole athletic career. So no fix here, but just straight up with you, with you hardcore on this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
This is so interesting to me thinking about the self-respect piece because I've never attached it to self-love. I've never thought of whether or not I have self-respect for myself. And I think that, at least for me, I could be really tough on myself. I have kind of a very critical voice. I think probably a lot of us do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And thinking about this self-respect piece, it's like, oh, if I think through that lens of needing to have respect for myself, automatically that voice softens a little. It's a lot less critical. It's going to hold me accountable, but it's not meanie voice. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. And so how did you come to this idea? Because I've never thought of this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Find Your “Tingle” & Live Wild with Justina Blakeney
And what does your inner voice sound like? Oh, yeah, I like that question.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
And, you know, let's remember 20 years ago, we weren't saying the word trauma. Right. You know, we weren't talking about any of this.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
With this unified business management suite, you gain a single source of truth that provides the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. Imagine having real-time insights and forecasting at your fingertips, allowing you to peer into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can focus more on what's next instead of looking backward.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
Yeah. Let's not forget during that time, the doctors were just giving shit out left and right. And so many of us got addicted to prescription pills because of that.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
It must have been so confusing. I recently lost my brother and... I'm sorry. Thank you. And I remember feeling like in the church at his funeral... I remember feeling like these people have no idea how I feel. Yeah. And also over time, I have to recognize that they also had a relationship with my brother. Yeah. though it was vastly different and much different than mine, it still mattered.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Presley Family Legacy with Riley Keough
So I could understand probably your mom's confusion at how to properly grieve because you have like the most famous person in the world. And then this person just happened to be her father. Like those are very confusing messages, not only to me, a human being, but a nine-year-old trying to figure out how to like work this through.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Well, and it makes me think the story of your son makes me wonder if you're the parent who says, no, you've already had your slice of cake. That child psychologically leaves the table and all they're thinking about is wanting another piece of cake.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
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We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
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We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
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We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that they help them find high quality candidates. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash hard things. That's linkedin.com slash hard things to post your job for free. terms and conditions apply.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And do you think I just read this thing today that said that if you eat at the same times around the same times every day, is that would you instruct people to do that? Or is it just like eat when your body's hungry?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
That's even a better description, an inner compass. Yeah. I like that.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I mean, it makes a lot of sense to me and coming from my background, um, Food was fuel. And I think that I have always had an overeating problem since retiring because that's what I became accustomed to. And I actually remember early on in my sobriety, I spoke with this one woman. She said, what are you using to supplement alcohol? And I said, I drink so much coffee.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And she said, what I want you to remember and what I want you to do is drink as much coffee as you possibly can drink as long as you don't drink any alcohol. And I said, what do you mean? She said, if it's nine cups a day, drink it. eventually your body will stop needing the caffeine, will stop thinking.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And I think so much of what you're talking about with this intuitive eating is of the same mindset, right? Like give your body the fuel, especially if you have been limiting the food. So I don't know. I think that everything what you're saying is like so important for me to hear, especially because as an athlete, because I'm still an athlete, I just work out much less than I used to. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Thinking about food as nourishment instead of fuel, because it was like I sat down at a meal and I'm like, did I earn these calories? Did I work hard enough to earn the food? Like to me, I had to previously work hard to earn the food. Oh, wow. Wow. And that was hard for me to unravel in my retirement.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I actually had to do an entire year, like almost a self-experiment on reteaching myself what suffering meant because to me, I attached the amount that I was able to suffer to my self-esteem. Oh my goodness. If I was able to suffer deeply, you will get this as a marathoner, then that brought me an incredible amount of self-esteem.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And it's this illusion of power that I thought that I was stronger, better, faster than everybody. And so I did an experiment that I spent an entire year of not doing anything to suffer. And to see what would happen with my self-esteem. And the irony is that I actually started to trend to do things more that I enjoyed doing. Ah, beautiful. So I got into surfing. I would go on. Yes. And P.S.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I'm on the Facebook girls who can't surf page. Oh, I love that group because it's so much fun. There's no performance involved. Exactly. So I found these little niches of things that I was getting into. And I think the same can be said for food because I do think that there's a self-esteem quotient involved. Was I a good girl during this meal? Did I follow all of my perceived rules prior?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Do you have any idea what you're getting yourself into today is what I want to know. I have a sense.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I have a follow up question. I think because I'll speak for myself here. I think that I am probably more addicted to sugar than maybe anything that I've ever been addicted to. And so my question is in terms of this idea of this philosophy of intuitive eating, what do I believe in my urges? Because I do have that urge after dinner every night to finish it up with something sweet.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And I know that we're not trying to I just am curious that like this idea of intuitive eating, listening to your body. But I have this real what I think is probably a real sugar thing. thing that's happening inside of me? How do I differentiate healthy versus addiction?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Addiction, because we're addicts. This is problematic.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
What do you think about that? That's probably where I live is that I'm afraid that I'm one step away from just like going into the freezer and emptying out every, like, I do think that I have a trust issue with myself with my hunger, because I have a voracious appetite. I think that I could have, I could be helped in this way.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I mean, I am. For a lot of reasons. I grew up in a family that was more overweight. I grew up in an environment where your body was the mechanism to income to your safety and security in the world. And I also grew up in a bigger body. as a woman.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
So I have all of these things that have kind of played a role in this, especially in my retirement where I'm, you know, I start eating at noon because I intermittent fast because I don't, I don't think it's that healthy. Um,
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Yes, for sure. It is normal. I think the way I'm engaging in my not that I'm on a diet, but in the way that I eat has a control function in it that I pass off as, well, I just want to live longer and I don't want to carry excess weight. I am also looking at the fact that I have, you know, heart disease in my family and my
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
you know, keeping my cholesterol at bay, like all of these things, scientifically speaking, are also in my consciousness around it. But I do want to feel like I can trust myself.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
No. Because of her.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Yeah. And it sounds so easy. So easy. It's not.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
I literally am seeing in the reflection of the window behind you. I see the, look at the wave. I'll duck. I'll duck. Can you see it? Oh, are you riding the wave right out front or do you go to a different break?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
See you next time. Pod squad.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Finding a great mentor who can really help me level up, it's not easy. But my dream mentor, Jodi Foster. She's our friend. So when I heard that she had a class on Masterclass, I was so excited to learn from her. Masterclass is the ultimate way to learn from the best to become your best. It's the only platform where you can access over 200 world renowned instructors for just $10 a month.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Just listening to both of you just now, is the opposite of fear trust in this conversation? Because what you're talking about with primal anger and primal hunger and primal exhaustion and
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Is the root of it really coming not only back into your body, but trusting yourself to make decisions, trusting that your body is going to send the messages, trusting that you will hear the messages, and then also trusting that the anger won't last forever? that the hunger won't last forever, that there are things that we can do.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
And I think the basic is to really trust your body and yourself because the world is telling us women in every way possible that we are not to be trusted. And it's like the most primal coming home.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
Oh, I love that language.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Is Intuitive Eating? Evelyn Tribole on Trusting Your Body
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We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
I'm actually trying to increase my awe by actually verbally saying, ah, out loud. Like if I see a sunset and then it's very strange what's happening in my body because I am actually feeling different sensations when I verbally go, ah, wow.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah. I actually just happened to me now. I just said, wow. And it made my body tingle. It's like smiling and then you feel happy.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah, I love love. Don't get me wrong. But my threshold is very high. I need it to be something that is very, very intense and beautiful for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah, but I went to Sedona after one of my heartbreaks. And there was just something about Sedona. I was supposed to be there for two days. I ended up being there for seven because I couldn't leave. It was like the first time my body felt like it was not hurting. There was something about the soil and the vortexes. There's just like something super cool about Sedona.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
What did I say? I don't remember.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Beautiful. Isn't that interesting? And it's also just there. It's an opportunity to see something that is living, that is surviving just by being. And when you're overcome with so much heartbreak, it just feels like impossible to breathe and survive and to believe that you can go on. And so when you look at a tree or you look at a huge mountain, you're like, They can do it. It's going on.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
This is really fascinating to me because my brother died last December. And that was one of the biggest things that I was really obsessed with for a long time with my therapist is I needed to know what happened. I needed to know how this could happen to a 52-year-old person.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Not only because he's related to me and that also applies to me genetically speaking, but there's like this justice component. to the needing to know, like I needed to figure out like good things. If you're a good person, good things happen to you. Right. And it was just like, it completely erased all of these like constructs that I had been handed throughout my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
And this is exactly the thing that my therapist was trying to walk me through is like, you're never going to know. And there has to be some sort of acceptance at some point because we will never know why somebody really died. And this is exactly right. This is wonderful.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Yeah. And, you know, before we end, I just think heartbreak when you when you are devastated by heartbreak for whatever reason, it feels so lonely because you think that nobody can understand what you're experiencing and feeling. Mm hmm.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Literally, I've thought my heartbreak is just bigger than everybody else's. Yeah. It just is. It's it's just different, you know, but it's not it just isn't. And to be away from it, we can understand. I don't know. I just love your work so much. I'm sorry that this happened to you. And also, I'm not because look at what it was.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Thank you so much. Love you.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Love you, Potsprout. See you next time.
We Can Do Hard Things
The Science of Healing Heartbreak with Florence Williams
Your body sends inflammation to protect it from being alone. That is something.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I think it's important for the folks that are listening. One of the things that not only shocked me because, you know, you and Andrea are like rock stars in the poetry community and you're beacons of the queer community. Like we look to you. And what I found so fascinating about this film is was that there was so much around this cancer diagnosis, around this story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
It was just like a beautiful example, an elegant and classy example of like how when given difficult news and over and over again throughout this film at times, how love was the center of you all.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And yeah, fear can creep in at times, but I just felt so incredibly awed by how normal you two felt and how aspirational, like you're abnormal in the aspiration of dealing with something like this cancer diagnosis and letting folks into your home, but how real and true you showed up on screen that even if you are a frat bro, you will find yourself in Andrea. Because this is like, I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
I don't know how else to say it, but it was, to me, it was just like this beautiful documentary of us all watching ourselves in certain ways and in moments. And I know you guys are not us and you're different than everybody, but I just felt like it was so universal and so gorgeous. And I'm so grateful that you said yes. I have retroactive fear that like, what if this never happened, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Because it's so good and it needs to get out into the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Yeah. But that's why this film is so fucking incredible.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
queer poets lives in there every day wow okay Glennon you have to tell the kind of the the origin story of like how this kind of happened like What, from your perspective, because I think I want to give the listener like a kind of a timeline of like when this and I know you're not great with numbers, so I'll help.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
This is two years ago, this part of the story.
We Can Do Hard Things
Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley
And I... During our breakfasts while we're at like a romantic getaway, Glennon's nose is just in a book.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
I agree completely with just the massive paradigm shift that that creates. When you even say Mother Earth, when you even say her, because it reminds me of the podcast we did with Jen Hatmaker when she was talking about how she learned from Hilary McBride to instead of say it about her body, she started referring to her body as she. And just that shift changed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
she talks about how that the empathy and the gentleness that she thought about her body with even just personalizing as she, as opposed to it. And the way that you talk about the earth and personify her, that gentleness and empathy is there. It's not, it's not a commodity. It is living.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
aspirational and wonderful, but it's really hard to find an inroad there. If the whole world is a relentless effort to separate us from our humanity, then it's almost like our whole life needs to be a relentless fight for the wholeness. Yes. So can we start at the very beginning, before we need to remember, before we got dismembered, can you talk to us about your life before you were nine?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
And it's wild that it's a leap to think of the earth as a living, breathing thing when it literally is, but that's beside the point. Another part of your work when you talk about the earth in terms of the climate emergency, you say you think of the earth as a mother screaming that she's done.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
We are telling her again and again that she is beautiful and resilient while we pillage and take from her, while we push her back down and tell her to keep getting up. And it reminds me so much of how mothers across this nation and the world are overwhelmed and overburdened and overtaxed. And as a culture, we give them this kind of empty praise. You're a superhero. Here's your greeting card.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
You're not even a human. Instead of doing the thing that will actually reduce their overwhelm and reduce their burden by... treating them better. We just call them a hero. And it just makes me think of that connection between the earth and mothers. And what is the lesson that we need to learn about kinship with mothers and with mother earth to start to have that respect to treat them better?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
that small thing that you're talking about is monumental of just seeing your plants, seeing the earth, seeing the water, seeing the trees as a she or a them, just that simple shift in your brain changes the way you experience everything. And I would love to talk to you about when you're talking about this connection to the land, opening up connections in yourself, you have,
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
this revelation while you are walking in a hike with your family and your one and a half year old son in Georgia.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
The only time I check in is like, you must be real busy because I haven't gotten all the things I asked for.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
oh love, you are so thirsty. I wonder if we even know we're thirsty. We don't even know we're thirsty because we think we're machines, but we are so thirsty.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
I have to ask one more question. And it is about the ancestral realm. Oh, yes. When you talk about... trauma and coming home to ourselves and wholeness, it strikes me that a lot in white culture, we have this individualist myth really of, okay, this is what's wrong in my life. And it is because the generations before me. And there is some truth in that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
But you see memes going around that are like, I'm going to hand my parents the therapist bill with a note that says, you broke it, you buy it. This idea, it's kind of like a funny thing we're doing. And you have such a different view of that that I think is so powerful. You say that to practice decolonization, we name the ways in which our ancestors did what they could but didn't do enough. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
In the ways that they still had so much to accomplish but didn't have the space or resources or time to do it all. And the way that they rely on us to change the things they couldn't or didn't change. Wow. And this... view is so beautiful because it's not, you failed to do it. So I have to, it's you did what you could. And it is the honor to take where you left off and build.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
And in doing that, I'm healing you and I'm healing my kids. I really want that to settle into my body as a way of being on this honored path of these generations that are doing the best they can. Can you say more about that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
It's so fascinating that the medicine becomes the disease. If you are disconnected, you've lost the connection to your dad, you've lost the connection to your native culture and you're yearning for that. You need it. So you're reaching out and here comes the evangelical church that's like, we'll give you every connection you want.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
But then it's further disconnecting you in many ways, eclipsing all of those parts of your identity.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Yeah. Everyone rain blessings upon yourself if you don't know what purity culture is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
Caitlin, to me, the perversion, no pun intended in the purity conversation, but like the perversion of such a beautiful connection with God, with spirit. And so many of us can relate to the fact of, you know, being taught to be ashamed of our bodies, be ashamed of what our bodies want. We'll of course, inevitably distance ourselves from our bodies.
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
I learned so much from your story about assimilation as a violence that disconnects us from ourselves and that compels us to erase who we are. And then... The process of deconstruction that you walk us through, that seems to me to be kind of the digging through the rubble to unearth and remember who we are. And you offer so many concrete tools because all of that seems so...
We Can Do Hard Things
Ways to Be More Present: Indigenous Wisdom from Kaitlin Curtice (Best Of)
If we think our bodies and our desires are evil, we have to distance ourselves from ourselves. And then that becomes disembodiment. But for you as a native woman, the whole additional giant layer of God being used as a basis for the theft of your ancestors' land and bodies. And that is actually God's will. Talk to us about the doctrine of discovery.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Hello, everybody. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We are here with Trisha Hersey. Trisha Hersey is a Chicago native who has called Georgia home for the last 12 years. She has over 20 years of experience as a multidisciplinary artist, writer, theologian, and community organizer.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Okay. So I'm going to do it because I just feel it. So you started the nap ministry. Yes. Trisha. But in diving deeply into your work over the last few weeks, what I said to sister yesterday is I feel like calling... Trisha's work that not ministry would be like calling Jesus's work, a walking ministry. It's so deep and so important.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
So my sister said, just please don't say the thing about Jesus and walking. So I said the thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
What I hear you in your work, in your book, it's not just... change what rest is, but change why rest is. Because we are just taught, just rest. Here's your eye mask that's $30 and here's your candle. And that's also part of grind culture is buying this shit. And then so that you can rest, so that you can come back and be more productive. And grind more. That's it. And grind more.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
So you can help us build better. So you can help us build stronger white supremacy.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Like capitalism. Preach. Trisha is saying, no, no, that is not why we are resting. We're not resting so we can come back and build their shit better. No. We're resting so we can imagine what we want to build instead.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
I think we just found that in the auto response.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Mm-hmm. So for our listeners, you've said grind culture is a collaboration between capitalism and white supremacy.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Trisha says that. Can I ask one thing before we move on from this part? Because I just, I think some of the fear, and I'm going to say this wrong, but I'm going to say it. Please. It's like whatever your, your ministry and what is the opposite of white feminism.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
It's like. Yes, it is. We have been indoctrinated. Yes. It's worse than had we never heard of feminism. Yes. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
It's like, because we were taught that feminism is to try to be the best at this horrific system. It's like, just lean in harder. Just be worse. Just be scrappier. Just beat more people. Yes. So that's why it's so terrifying at first because it's the opposite of what we were told was winning.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Yes. Terrible. And they're on the news saying, we hate you. We're passing bills.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
What you keep saying, which is what no one is willing to do, is this phrase of let the chips fall where they may. Oh, God. But we, trained in perfectionism and grind, believe that the worst thing in the earth is if anyone else sees us as not a perfect cog, right? That's it.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Can you talk to us about what it has meant to you in your life to let the chips fall where they may, professionally, family-wise? This is the thing we're terrified. I can't stop. Or what's the or and how do we survive the or?
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
You have five minutes.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Here's your bullets. Here's your bullets about how to Where's my workshop? From 12 to 12.15, I will rest.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
She is the founder of the Knapp Ministry, an organization that examines rest as a form of resistance and reparations by curating spaces for the community to rest in via community rest activations, immersive workshops, performance art installations, and social media. Her research interests include Black liberation theology, womanism, somatics, and cultural trauma.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
And that's wellness.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
It's not, you remind me of, I keep thinking of the scripture, the kingdom is not out there, it's inside of you.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
And we are rushing out to whatever capitalism tells us where we will find our liberation. Like the system's out there. It's out there. And you're saying all it is, it's always been in here.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
The body is where you're liberated.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
I think the only challenge, the only challenge I see with your work, really, besides dismantling everything. Besides, yeah, trying to burn down capitalism.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
That's right. No problem. Is that it's so completely grounded in faith Yes. And enough.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
And we have enough. And to hear someone like you say, yeah, I turn down things all the time. But aren't you scared of being irrelevant?
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
We noticed. I don't say the word.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
You're like, you're, You're doing for him what your dad did for you. That doesn't matter. What matters is that you are divine and you are born and you exist.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Yes. Not necessarily right now. Take your time. And we're changing the name of our podcast to We Can Do Soft Things. Or we don't have to do anything we don't want to do. No, Trisha, I'm fully expecting as soon as this is over to try it. We have a meeting, but I'm expecting none of my staff to show up.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Give them some grace. You are a revolution. For the rest of you, I'm just going to repeat, please. The upcoming book is called Rest is Resistance. Our copies, Trish, I'll just send you some pictures. Highlight it. Underline. I'm sure that's not how we're supposed to be reading it.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Okay. Rest is Resistance, a manifesto. And you can learn more about Trish's work and the book at The Nap ministry.com. Get ready. Everybody go visit Tricia. Tricia. Thank you so much for goodness.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
That's why everyone's going to be quitting and then my team's not going to be there. Yeah. This is my resignation. Everyone ask themselves that question except for Sister Dina and Allison. Thank you, Trisha. We love you. We believe in you. Go forth and rest. Thank you so much, guys.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
We will see you next time, PodSquad. Until then, rest. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
She is the author of Rest is Resistance, a manifesto. You can learn more about Trisha's extremely important and brilliant work. and her book at thenapministry.com.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
And Trisha, you focus so much on explaining to us in the book that the exhaustion and the inability to imagine is purposeful. Absolutely. Any stopping and thinking... And asking questions and allowing your imagination is dangerous.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Tell us more about that. It is purposeful that we are so exhausted and don't have time to think.
We Can Do Hard Things
No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey (Best Of)
Yeah. When you think about just the idea of get back to work, what that is, is that still building somebody else's imagination of what the world should be as opposed to stopping and imagining for ourselves. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I'd totally float if you threw me in the river. That blew my mind because I heard you say ultimately what I'm in the business of is to demand people be more aware of how and why they think, not what they think, because that's the reality of autism. You have autism. You have to think about how you think. That's what you do. And neurotypicals don't do that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
They just assume the way they think is right. I live with people who have some... Sprinkling? Sprinkling. It's a veritable cornucopia over here. It's carnival. Yes. And that thinking, you know, turning that lens on myself and thinking, no, this is how you're thinking about it. And that is why you're out of sync. Not necessarily there's something wrong or broken about the way they're thinking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
So that means they're looking for the same markers. That means when they're ultimately diagnosed, they're getting the same therapies when in fact the girl brain with autism looks different than the boy brain with autism. It results in a lot of real damage. 42% of girls are diagnosed with another mental disorder instead of autism when they go to get checked.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And how do you think that people who want to balance that hierarchy as it's set up right now, who want to connect with people of who they love, who are neurodivergent. How do we begin to understand about how we think that is building those barriers
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And boys are diagnosed two years earlier. So there's a lot of girls struggling out there with depression and anxiety. And like Hannah not being diagnosed until they're 30 and in her words, not haven't participated in life up to that point because they've been so sidelined by it. This conversation can help a lot of us to understand ourselves and give us insight into people we love.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
It's great. It's a good life. Love it. How you just shared is so, is such a gift. I mean, that's so important to understand that the work that you put in to showing up in a space, I just feel like that's a, that's a gift for people to understand that. And thank you for doing that for this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Hannah, can you talk to us?
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And importantly, it can help us reframe neurological diversity as differences, not as deficiencies. What Hannah shared about the exhaustive preparations she has to do to navigate everyday things, including this conversation today, was so important. It reminded me of something I read that explained how we all have a social brain, a network made up of multiple regions
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
throughout the brain that help us navigate social interactions. And there's a new line of unpublished research suggesting that in girls and women with autism, they keep their social brain engaged, but every bit of social interaction may be mediated through the prefrontal cortex.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
And it's similar to even our model of heart attacks, how women present very differently than men. And so women are dying of heart attacks because their symptoms don't match. Girls typically have often a different presentation than boys. It made sense when you said the exfoliation of shame because girls are kind of in this lost period of masking and not being identified.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Then they're going through adolescence. Then they're being diagnosed with depression and anxiety as the primary reason for their struggles. And oh, that's so hormonal. And then they spend their whole lives thinking their lives aren't working out because of their depression and anxiety and not they're depressed and anxious because they've never been identified and understood for who they are.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
Which means that whereas many of us are able to deal with social interactions instinctively, for girls and women with autism, processing every social interaction can be the equivalent of doing high-grade math.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
So when she talks about being exhausted, having to prepare, how depleting it is, it's because every social cue is essentially an equation of long division, which is the labor neurodivergent folks do in masking to be in relationship and community.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I just am really thankful that she goes into that detail for us because I think it's really important as empathy for people, understanding the people that we love, that that's the work they're doing every day, the work that we take for granted, just getting a feeling. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
That's a false representation of the Abby sneeze. Right. It's an Olympic gold medal sneeze. I'm just being polite here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I have another thing that I had a moment when she was speaking and when she was talking about how her mom said, I'm so sorry that I raised you straight. And I think that that's something that we can think about and be like, oh, that's right. But then she talks about how when she was growing up, right. You know, she'd be playing by herself. She'd say, I don't want to go to that birthday party.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I don't want to. And, and, and, As a parent, but you're sad. You're sad if you don't go to the birthday party. And she's like, I'm not sad. And I think sometimes I, although I would never raise my kid with the assumption that they're straight and look at them that way, I think that I can very easily raise my kids with the assumption that they're neurotypical. So if I see...
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
a group of kids playing and my daughter playing separately on her own, I feel intense pain and I project on her loneliness and sadness and separateness. But that's raising her like a straight kid. That's raising her like a neurotypical kid. I just really got that from today's podcast. I want to let my kid be exactly who they are without projecting what the world will see them as.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I just want to see them through their own eyes and their own experiences.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I'm so thankful that she came on and shared so honestly and quite a lot about she has a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. And I think it's so important to hear from women about that. Her story is fascinating. She went through really hard times. She was unhoused. She was in terrible situations a lot of her life and was only diagnosed when she was 30, basically.
We Can Do Hard Things
Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better (Best Of)
I think it was a year before Nanette came out. And a lot about her story has to do with living... without this knowledge of herself, but just living in kind of an ill-fitting world. And it is a place where a lot of girls are, and it's just so important that people learn about this and the way that girls do not exhibit the same science of autism that boys do. We live by a male model of autism.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I don't. You don't. That's so cool to say Reese, because that's a, that's a very non codependent thing to say. That's like a, it's not my problem sort of thing. That's so good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah. We had a friend that they said, you know, if we are literally driving to your house for dinner and you need to call and cancel, We won't ask questions. We'll turn our car around and go home. So that's the kind of friendship that, and I was like, well, this is wonderful. I was like, don't say that to us. You're just giving Glennon cancellation out every time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Does it mean that like, I just wonder if the barometer for friendship and like the requirement for friendship for men might be just slightly lower, lower. Actually, we're just going to like get together and watch a sports game or whatever. Yeah. Interesting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Very. She's got to be very tired.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Not to belittle men here who are, who are listening, but I actually think we're looking for something that's like a magic match, more, more meaningful and more deep. I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And like in your 20s, you're like, whatever. I don't have any boundaries. In your 30s, you're like, oh, I'm learning what boundaries are. And then like in your 40s, you start, I think, actually establishing, especially with friendship, because we don't have any time. You know, like you've got kids, you've got your jobs. When I want to get with my friends, that is a slice of like special time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I want to switch gears. I think that you and I, and Glennon too, but I think that in the sports world and in Hollywood, there's the old boys club. And you've experienced it and you've somehow not only survived it, but you've been able to thrive. How did you experience the old boys club, first of all, in Hollywood? Yeah, what's it like?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I know. And it's like, not that you've just done things, you've done incredible things. Like all of the things that we just talked about are like our favorite movies and our favorite experiences that we share with each other. It's just incredible to us.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And what you just said, Reese, at the beginning of this answer for me, actually changed my life. And I have to like, just point it out is I've carried a lot of shame with me in terms of my alignment at times with the good old boys club, because that was part of survival in the late nineties, early two thousands. And I've carried some shame with me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And you said it was your dream and you would do anything to follow your dream and achieve your dream. And that is what I was doing. And I've been holding myself down. With this kind of shame around me feeling like, oh, I was misaligned. So I just want to thank you for that. That was really healing for me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah. Thanks, Hollywood. Bye.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
You're also a business mogul. Like you're just like such a bad-ass and you are a leader and In not just Hollywood, but the business world. It's amazing. Well, thank you, honey.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Their keys to their home.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Right. When I was transitioning from soccer to this life, a friend said, think of it like going and watching a trapeze person. They're swinging from rung to rung and where you are right now, is you're kind of just holding on to each rung because I was really struggling to let go of my past and I was really scared to step into a future, an unknown. She said, you're just holding on to each rung.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
She said, but why do people go and watch trapeze artists do their thing? She said, it's to see what happens in the middle because that's where the magic is. And I was like, oh shit. So I let go of both rungs and I was like, okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
You're too much. Too much for people to deal with. Well, I have been, I think that I'm the right amount.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I feel like, I feel like, I've come into a sense of maturity. When I was playing soccer, I was too much. Okay. But now that I stopped interrupting people so much, I'm feeling like I'm better.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
I don't have post-mortem remorse about conversations. What? It's all I have. It's all I do. We actually talk about this a lot.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Yeah. But I think that part of this has to do with I have gotten male privilege because of the way I present through my life and because of sports. So I have a sense of male privilege that maybe you both, because of the way you present and the way that you've been received in the world, it just might be slightly different. So that's interesting. Yeah, I think that that's kind of interesting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That's amazing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Oh, get out of here with her. She's a family fave for sure.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Thank you for paving a certain path that will last for hundreds, hundreds of years forever. You're, you're making women's life, not just in Hollywood, but women's life in production and, in business, in private equity, the deal that you were able to like come to with Hello Sunshine is life-changing for women in every industry because they can see that it's possible. Precedent setting.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Reese, you are a friend. You are inspiration. We love you. And thank you for being with us today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Amazing. Babe, what's the difference between your 23-year-old self and your 46-year-old self?
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Hello, everyone. I'm Abby. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. And we have a real treat for you today because we're talking to our dear friend and truly the friend of women everywhere. Correct. Reese Witherspoon.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
You also fell in love. And so that was like big for five years. Yeah, I'm slowly growing. But we know that that's not sustainable, that it can't just be us. Right. Like we actually need a life giving force from others. That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Well, we both are. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
That's really good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
It's so good. I think that this is what we've figured out over the last... many years, our search for more friendship, we want to feel like friends are helping us also learn more about and explore more about the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
And I think that we found a couple of friends here that are doing that. And it feels so wonderful. Now that we live in LA, it feels so wonderful.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Nobody's laughing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Reese Witherspoon on Friendship: What, Like It’s Hard? (Best Of)
Oh, get out of here with that. Jesus.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
The cops are coming. You're on your own.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Yes. And also there's a little, there's gotta be a little part of that little child in you. That's going. Yes. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
You're taking care of me now.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
The whole world.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
I get a notification every day on that app.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
That's so good.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
The self-help industry needs people who need help. And it's like, we have to, the work that we're doing is hopefully putting ourselves out of work.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Yeah, that's a lot. So do with it. Good luck, Chan.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
How do they do that? I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Is it common for a lot of people that you speak with and read charts for, is it common for them to feel jealous about all the other signs? Because I feel like when you talk, I'm like, I feel like I want to be a different sign.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
I don't know. All of the other ones sound better than mine.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Okay. I just sure do.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
You're right. It's just like grass is always greener. It just, everybody else sounds such a Capricorn moon thing to say.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Holy fuck. You just described my life in two sentences. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Yeah. Can you do Amanda?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Oh, she got, she one-upped you.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
She needs affirmation.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Was coming into learning about astrology at age 12 helpful to understand some of these adults in your life and the choices that they were making? Obviously, addiction is addiction, and Glennon and I know, and Amanda know a lot about that, but did it bring a source of empathy or healing in knowing maybe that they are different in the astrological charts than you are?
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Yeah. I believe in most things.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
And the choices that they made.
We Can Do Hard Things
What Your Sign Says About How You Love: Chani Nicholas (Best Of)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So I want to ask you about a story I read about the Ask the Turtle.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I'm curious, has it gotten easier? Because I'm hoping that when I get to 60s, 70s, 80s, I'm hoping that I just give zero shits. About negative feedback? Yeah, because you've been through it for so long. Does it get easier?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I also think that when you do get criticized, that is proof of progress because 50 years ago, they were not even talking about us, right? I think that it was in the documentary. I think that that's really interesting. And as a soccer player, That's something that we came to understand in a different way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
When people started criticizing us, we had to actually learn how to take the criticism because this was new territory. Nobody ever gave a shit before to even criticize us. So it's just like, hey, this is progress.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
So prior to 1975, we have to talk about this because the term sexual harassment did not even exist. Sexual harassment was just life. What I want to know is what injustices are we living through now that we consider just life?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
It's interesting because the three of us are activists and we will continue to be activists through the rest of our lives. I need to know how you've been able to sustain the energy to keep doing this work decade after decade after decade. Avoiding burnout. Can you give us some tips?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
I want to... end this podcast in a way that I hope to do you honor. I became who I am as a woman, a lesbian, and an athlete because of you and your sisters and all of the work you've done.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
But your voice... No team sports.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Your voice giving women a platform gave... the 1972 Title IX law traction that gave me a chance. And I just want to thank you for mothering and sistering me and millions of others into giving birth to ourselves. You have changed the world. You have changed my life and you have changed the world. Gloria, we love you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
Can you tell us about when you asked your mom about why she didn't pursue the love and ambitions of her life?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
In so many photographs of you and your organizing partners, whether it's you and Bella Abzug, Flo Kennedy, Dorothy Pittman Hughes, or Wilma Mankiller, You all seem to be laughing. There's so much joy and laughter. We have to understand how this is possible after so many decades of fighting against this unrelenting bullshit. How were you and are you so full of laughter instead of bitterness?
We Can Do Hard Things
Gloria Steinem: Laughing Our Way to Liberation (Best Of)
It might be easy for people to think of you as a superhero who happens to be made for conflict. I think of Glennon in this way, too. But you talk all the time about how you actually hate conflict. You cry when you're angry. Yes, I do hate conflict.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Is that related to maybe in a couple where one person feels responsibility for the logistical business of running a family and so has to avow that? that because they feel obligated and then therefore squelch the human part. So the machine part is adopted. The human part, the sexual, the curious, the joyful is squashed. And therefore I'm resenting that in my partner.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Because I have split.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
The opposite. Because then she doesn't have to put her shoes in the wrong place to punish you for withholding your love.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Can you talk a little bit about... what commonly you see in your work is proxies for bigger issues. If there's all of this confused dynamics in a relationships, what are the things that we go to, to give that meaning? Like we fight about sex, we fight about money. What are those things? And then what are they representing that are bigger issues?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Can you give us an example of a, you called it a generational errand?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
What is an example of one of them?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
What do I have a right to be mad about versus what am I supposed to just accept as normal?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
I'm wondering what the third way is in this question, because she's saying, do I need to change my needs or do I need to change my partner? What is the third way for her to be thinking about this as opposed to those two?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Yeah. It's interesting that both this one and the one prior where we talked about wants and needs, it's like part of the answer may mean that we're searching for something within the relationship that that we can access and maybe only can access outside of the relationship. And that that's not a deficiency, that's just the way we were made. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Thank you, Caitlin.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
To be unconscious on the same piece of furniture for eight hours. How did that become a symbol of love?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Yes. And isn't that interesting? Because when you think about the otherness, it either leads to this pattern of kind of righteous, I am correct and you are wrong blame cycle, or it leads to, I see that you are other and incorrect and therefore I have married the wrong person.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Maybe before the wedding. Pre, pre. What is the fear that underlies this issue of otherness? So I'm not necessarily mad because you do X and I do Y. I am deeply disturbed by this because I have some fear of what?
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
I mean, I think it's also interesting the way you're talking about it from a political system and otherness. And I think especially in the last few years, we have experienced a huge polarization and many people are experiencing it in their own homes. And even if they're not politically polarized with their partners.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
One thing I love about your work is you honor feminist theory within your psychoanalysis. So there's this whole idea of an awareness of the political reality within the realities of our relationships. And so what have you seen... That's a major otherness.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
If you're in, like I am, a opposite sex marriage and you're having a very different experience of the last four years just by nature of who you are than I have had, I have noticed myself these resentments, these kind of the anger, that I have to experience being a second class citizen in this country and you never will. And therefore you cannot understand me. You are so other. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Have you seen that more in the last?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
So many things in our lives change, but not our love for Viore clothing. I love this ad. We're so glad that they continue to support the show. It's true. Abby is obsessed with Viore. I am a little bit too. Do you think you have a favorite item? They're t-shirts. They never get less soft.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Somebody else's boundaries.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah, it's evolving. And a lot of people kind of rely on, well, you knew this when you got into the relationship and actually people evolve. They're always changing. Sometimes things change. Sometimes you become somebody who wants to turn the lights off at six o'clock and the other person becomes a person that that doesn't want that. How do you negotiate and navigate that?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
It literally just happened the other day, y'all. She walked out of the bedroom. She wasn't even in, nobody was in the room I was in. And I was listening, I was watching a TV show. Happened to be like a fight scene. And it was distressing to her.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Yeah, she opens the door and she's like, who is listening to the TV? That loud. I was like, it's just me up here. And that was upsetting to her. So this is good. This is good, Nadja.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Nedra, I do have a, I have a quick question. I think it's really interesting how linked boundaries are with knowing what you need. How much work do you do talking to your patients about them working out what they really want? Because I have struggled in my life creating boundaries because I didn't really know exactly what I wanted or how to express that and communicate that with other people.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Because it's two different steps.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Glennon would like to watch sports with you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
It's different. My face, the way it looks. I'm listening hard. Yeah. When you're when you're in your active listening, you like you get your squint eye and like, you know, you have one eye that squints a little bit more than the other. And then your mouth goes down.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
We just don't want to.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I love that. In the recovery community, like I'm a recovering alcoholic and I had a lot of really strong friendships when I was in the active phase of my addiction. And I don't have a lot of those friendships anymore. And I didn't have like a, hey, we're no longer friends. I do think that in the recovery world, you do need to build your new life. And that sometimes takes time.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
And so having that door that's always available to maybe include them in your sober life
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I was walking this morning by myself and I had this like grateful moment that I was alone and which is a big deal for me because I'm a people person big time. And so it's taken me a long time to get comfortable by being by myself just this year. I've been like consciously making choices to do things on my own.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
The codependency that we had for so long, me just making sure you're OK, doing everything together. But today on my walk, I was like, look at you. You're walking by yourself and happy about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Is it real? That's so good because I have much more of a leniency when it comes to people. And so I'm more capable of that unconditional love. And it's interesting being married to somebody who is more boundaried in that way.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I've gotten so good at reading movies because I just turned the captions off so the volume could be lower.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I think that that is maybe a source of friction at times because I'm more, and I don't mean to say this, I'm more open and you have a tendency to be more, what word would you use? Closed like Fort Knox. And so that poses problems. I love that, sister. That's really good.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I'm actually really interested in talking about the concept of boundaries and those who I sometimes notice as being boundaried sometimes can be seen as a-holes. Right. Like your wife? No, I wasn't saying that. But for me, I very much am other people minded. I'm very big people, people pleaser. And so I don't want to come off as an a-hole. I want to be
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
Nedra, can you give us a little script at ways in which setting boundaries can be done easily? For me, it would be good to have like in my back pocket as we end this conversation today to be able to say, okay, I can maybe start there. Something like as the most simple way to set a boundary.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
I loved this conversation so much.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
How to Say No: Boundaries with Nedra Glover Tawwab (Best Of)
That's just crazy talent. I think that's just control. Yeah. Okay, never mind.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Yeah. I think that what's under all of this too is when women enter into a workplace that is dominated by men, it's this like subconscious thought That, oh, I have to fit in here somehow. And so there's going to be things that I'm going to need to take. Like a man. Like we have to turn ourselves into men. And if this guy is saying something to me, does he see me as one of the guys?
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Like there's all of this confusing messages that we're getting. And, and like you said, once you get that platform or you've been with a company long enough where you can actually have a voice and, What can we do to help the younger generation? Because if reporting isn't doing anything, if coming forward is making our lives fucking worse. Yeah. How do we actually help the next generation?
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I think it's also a conversation around the institution that you're in and the people that you go to, your bosses. So I would suggest somebody trying to get into these new spaces to, at the interviews, ask what are your reporting policies and who does that go to and how is it handled? I think that because you've built a relationship with people
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
your bosses who, you know, are going to at least have a conversation. Maybe that person doesn't get fired, but that person now has the idea bubble in their head that they take with them to work every day. And that is, that is actually consciousness shifting because you're putting out media into the world that people are consuming.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
And so if you're changing it in just this little way, it's going to have these huge consequences, positive, I think.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Masculine and feminine.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Probably. Okay, so... You are a woman that is in an exceptionally male-dominated field. I know that field well. And so we wanted you to come here for that reason, and also because we love you. Because in many ways, this means you represent what every woman in the workplace or social media endures, except yours is that much more egregious.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
I mean, the worst part about the tiger thing is that there was a moment for him where he saw the tampon. Where did he see this tampon? He had to pack it. He picked it up. He picked it for nine holes. He literally put it in his bag.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
Which is so fucking weird.
We Can Do Hard Things
Women at Work & The Episode That Wasn’t with Sarah Spain (Best Of)
You came to this field because you love this work in sports, but your work is not evaluated according to the criteria of work in sports. Your work is evaluated exclusively as a woman.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
No, because I know how you feel about men in general.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I think that you have been in a cage for so many years. seconds of your life that it doesn't matter to me. I know that we are going to be together forever. And of course I just, I have that fear in general because of my own unworthiness complex that I've built over the course of my life. But I do think that there for you, you need to have the freedom to not put yourself into another box of
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Everything is very confusing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
That is something. I mean, we were watching Hacks a couple of weeks ago and this non-binary person came on the screen and she said, that is a beautiful person. And I looked at her and it was like, It was the first time that I was like, wait a second. That's my lane. You're not allowed to talk about other people who are in my lane. Like, what the fuck?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
She looked at me and she's like, she saw my sincere concern. She's like, what? Oh, no, I don't. No, no. I, you know, and was trying to back out of it. Yeah. But what? Wow. Wow. Wow.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
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We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I wonder, because this might have been around the time that you started to delve into bulimia.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
You just married one man.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I was named after her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Wow. You both are the background in our life and our children's life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Ooh. I didn't know that. So that changes that. I love that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I loved church. When I was three, I knew all of the church songs. I stood on the pews with my hands on the back of the pew in front of me. I was loud. I was into it. And then over time, as soon as I started to feel my sexuality coming to the surface, I fucking hated myself. Mm-hmm. Like I felt that shame and I embodied it in my cells and like the molecular makeup of who I am.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And then I get to be 16 years old. And this is actually the first time I ever acknowledged outwardly, not with words, but with action to my mom. We were in a store and y'all's CD was at the checkout line. And I picked up your CD and my sister, Laura, who's a little bit older than me, she's 10 years older than me and she's gay. I came out first, but she listened to you all.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And I grabbed the CD and I said to my mom, can I buy this? Can you buy this for me? And she said, yeah. And that was like that was like one of the most important moments of my life. It was like me taking ownership of myself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't come out to her for like six years after that. But still, it was it was like one of the most important moments of my life. And y'all were a big part of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Abby. Wait, are you serious? Yeah. No, we didn't get into a huge fight, but she's been a little bit on edge this morning. She literally shushed me a little bit ago because I came back from workout and oftentimes my volume is a little higher. Anyway. And so just recently, as we sat down, I said, are you upset with me? And she said, no. What did you say?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And my goodness, Amy, what you just said, I'm more masculine. I have more masculine tendencies. And so, of course, no straight man who would want to be with a woman would ever want me. So it felt like this is... The way you articulated that was like the most true thing that I have heard about my own gender and sexuality and how they are in relationship to each other.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
That it's like, well, I can't be that. Nobody will want me over here. So, of course, then I'll just... I have to be gay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
No, it's not the point. It's like I want to be everything if I want to be everything. You know, like I have had sex with dudes and it wasn't like the worst experience of my life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Do you love or hate the fluidity of that for you?
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And I think what probably was bringing you into the depths of your addiction was this cover or the costumes that you had to keep putting on. And Glennon talks a lot about going to our first meeting and finally listening to people telling the truth for the first time. And I bet because they speak so much truth in their music. And I bet that that was such an attraction to you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I know. And it's so cool. And I'm like, we're vertical. It's so cool because she got sober 20 years ago. We're not on the lam. She still feels this way. This is a 20 year veteran. No one's arresting me today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
And, um, we love you. We love you very much. You've brought so much love and joy into our lives.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
Yeah. We need to wrap it up. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
I have that with Glennon. I have like a lot of internalized homophobia that still lives in me today. And Glennon grew up with straight privilege and has always been fighting for gay rights for the longest time. She was marching at gay pride parades before I was. And I just think that that's so interesting. Like I look at her and sometimes I think, Not fuck you, because I would never say that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Indigo Girls: Sexuality, Sobriety, Faith & Freedom (Best Of)
But like, really? Like, you just got here and you feel free. And I've been keeping myself in this homophobic cage for so long. I don't know. I just think it's really interesting. And, you know, you both have said that you were a little scared of your own gayness.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Oh, my gosh. Well, the people can't see the cuteness.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I don't care. My thought process of what the outworld is, the world out there thinks of me is so little. Like I don't think about what other people, I mean, I care about what you think of me, honey, but, and what sister thinks of me on some level, but the reality is growing up the way that I did, I was challenging from the very beginning, the way that I was feeling on the inside.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
I didn't know that it was about my gayness. I didn't know that it was about my, being an inherent and born feminist like I didn't know any of those things when I was young all I knew is just that when I went out into the recess and got on the playground that I wanted to play as rough and hard and have as much fun as I saw the boys having right and it's like
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
even though you might not have participated in the monkey bars or whatever it was on the playground, I wanted to have the ability to do that. And I knew that I could do it at the same level that they could. And so I think because I was also naturally gifted as an athlete, that gave me some leveling of social dynamics as a really young kid, which probably affected the way that I view the world.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
You know, it's like, I mean, right now, the thing that I have the most fun doing is play golf. And I think both of you would want to stab your eyes with forks out having to go play a round of golf right now. We did it once.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Not the way I play it, but thank you for bashing so much of my fun, honey.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Does that count? Yes, it does. Because if something sparks joy, it's like the Marie Kondo thing, right? Like if you hold something, if you're experiencing something, the thing is, I don't know if you and sister really truly have experienced pure joy without like some sort of conclusion or a required outcome. You know, it's like going on the boat.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And for you, Glennon, I know it's like being with the kids and having like a day that is full of joy.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
complete life like i know that that fills you up so and everybody's different like you're not going to have the same kind of fun as as i am but at the end of the day you have to figure out what fun is to you so that when you do walk away from work life you don't have to totally reform and transition into a complete unknown you have set up some foundational building blocks that will give you a little bit of confidence heading into that next part of your life
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Mm-hmm. that's also not fun that's right for me yeah it's because it's basing somebody else's opinion about what they want to be doing and taking it on as your own so i think that you guys have a fun stunted growth because of the way that you were raised on a sailboat truly and i think that because the way that maybe you've perceived the modeling of what being a good wife is is
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It's like you have to ask the people around you, like, what is fun? I mean, honey, you actually ask me that all the time. Like, what do I want to do today? Like, what do I think is fun? What do I want?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
What is fun? What I want to actually say is, have you ever thought about why watching our women's national soccer team is so interesting for women?
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
Both men and women, right? A lot of times I've been told, you know, I just, I don't know why I love watching you so much. And a lot of times it's covered up with this whole winning thing, which helps. I do understand that. Yeah. But I think it's way deeper than that. I think for women, it's like this awareness, like this great deep learning about what could be.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
And then for men too, because they also are conditioned to believe that like women don't know how to have fun because we never have been given the chance or taken the opportunity to have fun. I think that that's why I confuse both of you so much is like all I'm looking for in life is to have fun. It's why I turned into an alcoholic.
We Can Do Hard Things
FUN: What the hell is it and why do we need it? (Best Of)
It's the reason why it took me so long to get sober because I quite frankly, I thought that all of my fun would be zapped, like just gone instantly as soon as I stopped drinking. But the reality is you have to create new ways of having fun. without drinking, obviously. But I don't know. I just feel we all have to do a little bit of digging on you individually, on me individually.
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What do I experience as joy? And what I do now is different than I did 10 years ago, will be different what I do in 10 years. But the experience of it, like I even enjoy doing something new for the first time just to see if it's going to be fun. Yeah. I know, it's so wild.
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Okay. So here's the thing. When I stepped into your family and I do feel like it was a stepping into. The very first correspondence I had with Sister was this, don't ever lie to Glennon. Now, that taught me a lot about you, Glennon. Also taught me a lot about Sister because she inadvertently, I think, was telling me also don't lie to me. Right. Because this family revolves around integrity.
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Does that count? I think so. I absolutely think so. I think that seeing how you devour books, like you don't just sit, you're not just doing it to pass the time. You're actually interested in what's happening.
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And what you're reading. And then when you go on your walks, you're thinking about the thing that you just read. Like that to you, I think is actual joy. Yes.
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I think it could happen.
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I want it to be understood. Stop, stop, stop. What you need to understand is that this can't just be a thought. The way that fun is had is you actually have to experience it, right? So we are going to spend the next six months talking about this futuristic social gathering that we will then find any kind of possible problem, which will lead us to never pick a specific person or a couple Okay.
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All right. So, okay.
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Because here's the thing, like one of the most important elements of fun is that you don't know what the outcome is going to be. So the act of life of like experience, you might have fun and you also might not, but that gives you some information of what you should do next time or what you shouldn't do next time. All right. That sounds like great fun.
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Wow. It's really good. And I think that, you know, Glennon, there's times where I'm like, hey, have you run into Glennon today? And you're like, yes. And sometimes that happens earlier in days than normal.
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And maybe this is it. Maybe the antidote or the prescription is that you need to have a little bit more play in your life so that you can stay having enough Glennon for the whole day.
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Like that's like the core value. But I don't think that I've met people who are more integrated with what's going on in their insides and what goes on in their outsides. Now, I've also never met more hardworking people. In fact, it's one of our five fights that sometimes I like to lay down in the middle of the day. And Glennon, that's not something that you understand.
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I also probably would think that Amanda doesn't understand this either.
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Right? Right. Yes. But here's the thing. I... I'm fascinated by the two of you because first of all, I love you so much and I have never felt so trusted and taken care of in the same breath. It's like because you guys operate with this integrity so intact and It is at the core of everything that we participate ourselves in, whether it's a card game. Although, Glennon, you do cheat sometimes.
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I do cheat at cards.
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We got to stop saying girl, babe.
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Three different species that when you combined us all together, it's like we make the perfect pairs or triple. I wouldn't know how to say that. Well, what I was telling you on the walk, because you like to talk about everything that you're going to do, right? And you were about to do an episode on something or other. So we were having this conversation about jealousy and it came up.
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you said, you know, you're not really jealous. You don't really have jealousy in you. And I was like, well, I do. I just like deal with it differently. And I was talking about how I feel sometimes jealous of sister because she can't not be your sister. Like she's tied to you by blood forever. And you have to choose to be with me forever. It's like a choice, you know? And I know that we're tied.
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and legally, but you can always break that. Like you can't break up with your sister. And that gives me so much jealousy for Sissy.
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It's a real thing out in the world. It's true. However, you're not the kind of sister that people break up with, Sissy.
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And for the people out there listening, Amanda Doyle, Glennon's sister, is the taker-carer of our family. And not just Glennon and I, but like of our children. She's always holding everybody close.
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in place somehow like she is the strength she is the the the the person who um makes everything less confusing because she's smarter than all of us no offense glennon but she like legally takes care of us because she's smart with the law organizationally and then contractually and and And then emotionally, she's always there.
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Like the other day I said, you know, I want to get sister a sister somehow.
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You need Amanda kind of sister.
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Okay, I'm going to throw a little curveball, and my apologies. What we in the sports world say, curveball or audible. Okay. You know what those mean? You do. Your dad was a football guy.
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Yeah. So here is the deal. I'm having an intervention with you two because I'm not bringing my hard thing. I'm bringing something that I notice is both y'all's hard thing. And we talk about it. We have talked about it. We have different opinions about the subject. And what I'm here to intervene with you two about is fun. Oh, God. Having fun. Defining fun.
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Deciding what you each individually feel like is fun. I mean, this is an intervention and I'm not standing up from the seat until we figure it out for both of you.
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Yes. Yes. Because tell the story, honey.
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And then what did I suggest? She said, well, let's go clean out the garage. Do you want to do that with me? That sounds like fun. And I said, that is not fun. You got really upset, actually. I was like, what are you talking about? Like, no, that's a chore with an outcome that'll make you feel good. But surely it's not fun.
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Okay, so I know that everybody's going to have their own opinions and definitions in this. But for me personally, fun is the experience of joy. And sometimes that means... you don't know what the outcome is. For me, I grew up competitive. I'm a competitor by nature.
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And so anytime I can weave in some sort of competition, which is why I like walking with you into the grocery store and beating you by one step. That's fun.
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Hi, love. How are you?
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Okay. So sometimes when I have to do a chore of some sort, I weave in some semblance of fun, some sort of competition so that I can talk myself or fool myself into believing that this could be fun on some level.