Trevor Noah
Appearances
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah. You see, this is what my brain was doing. At that exact moment, my brain was doing the same thing. I was just standing there staring at it going, what is this? Why is this? And why don't I try and get one? And the price was ridiculous. And you had to hold your breath while you ride the bike? No, it has a little bubble. You know, like those old... Those old sky, what do you call it?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It's a bubble. And then my phone rang, and it was some long number. I had no clue what, and I answered the phone, because I don't owe anybody money. And the voice on the other end was like, hey, is this Trevor? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, hey, this is Jon Stewart. I was like, okay. And he's like, Jon Stewart, I'm a comedian from America. I was like, oh, okay.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And he's like, you've never heard of me. It's fine. Well, I've seen some of your stuff online.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And he said to me, yeah, I saw some of your stuff on YouTube and I want to know if you want to, would you ever consider coming and doing stuff in the US? And I was like, yeah, not really, maybe, I don't know. And he's like, well, I work on a show called The Daily Show. And I was like, oh, I think I've heard of that.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Because I had, I'd seen it on CNN International because we didn't have it on other channels in the world. And I was like, oh yeah, I've heard of it. And he's like, oh, as you should have, young man. He's very funny, you know John.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, and then he invited me. He's like, come and hang out. I think you're funny and I like the way you see the world. Come and hang out with me when you get a chance. And so at first I said no. I was like, I've got the tour. And he's like, he said, are you saying no? What did he say? He said, are you saying no to the trappings of American fame and popularity? Who are you, young man?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And I said, no, I've got a tour. I'll see you when I see you. And he said, well, if you're in New York, look me up. And I said, definitely. Thanks for the call. It's nice to hear from you. And then I went to New York, I think six months or eight months later, he called me again. He's like, I hear you're in town, but you didn't look me up. And I was like, oh, Jesus, this guy's relentless. Wow.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Just hang out. And that's all I did. I went there. We hung out. I remember them talking about like John Boehner or something. And then I was like, what is this world? What is going on here? Right.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I knew the larger... In the rest of the world, we keep up with American politics, you know, on a big scale.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So, you know, this is actually interesting. I remember somebody asked me, they said to me, when the Daily Show happened, they said, so are you going to, they said, are you a political comedian? You know, the Daily Show is very political. And I said, oh, no, no, no, I'm not. I genuinely is like, I'm not a political comedian. I don't even, I don't think of myself that way.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
When I spent a little time in the US, I came to realize that what I thought of as non-political humor would be considered ultra-political humor in America.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Because here, the average person doesn't... I think it's changed since Trump, but back when I first got to the US, most people didn't engage in politics. People would literally say, like, I don't follow politics. I don't get involved. I don't follow politics. Right, right. Right.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, whereas in South Africa, what we consider a basic level of commenting or being involved in the system, we don't think that's political. For us, political is marching in the streets, freeing people from prison, protesting the system. That's being political.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Well, initially it was, I always describe the story as feeling a lot like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. In that I popped in, I had a great time with John. And I said to him, I was like, this is, I like what you guys are doing, I guess, but this is not for me. And then we laughed about, we would just, man, cause Jon and I just, we get along.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You know, there's comedians where you click with them and your rhythm and your vibe is almost completely simpatico. You're just in it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
But the comedy is like, you know, when it comes to comedy, I find there's a, it's like music. All musicians can play together, but some musicians can create magic together. And when you find comedians that you share that with, it's pretty special.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So I think it was a massive disadvantage and an advantage. The disadvantage is people don't like anyone who doesn't look like them or sound like them coming to tell them anything about them. So, you know, I spent weeks getting random death threats and letters. People hated how I said controversy. And then it was, you know... Controversy? Yeah, controversy.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
But did you really get death threats, Trevor? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, I mean... That's quite – it's like it's par for the course, I've learned. As soon as you comment on American politics in a public forum, that's pretty much what happens to you. So that was a disadvantage.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I don't know. I mean, it's scary. Yeah, there's a latent level of anxiety that comes with anybody threatening you. And again, I need to state, I don't think it's that uncommon. I'm pretty certain all the other late night hosts have gotten death threats. It's just, it varies.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So back then, was that like people sending... Just for shitty jokes or... Yeah, people...
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
12 months later. It was the beginning of Donald Trump and everything that America now lives in as a normal state.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Instead of just turn the channel. Yeah, but you know, at the time, it was so hard launching The Daily Show that I actually preferred having those people than not. I was like, okay, we have these people.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
No, not even an enemy. I was just like, we have viewers. I was like, these people are passionately watching the show and we need every single person to watch. So there was actually one guy I reached out to. There was a guy who was tweeting vitriol at me on, you know, just on the daily. He was like, you know, you're a piece of trash and you'll never make it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And if I ever meet you in the streets, and I DM'd this guy and I said to him, hey man, I just really want to understand, like, why do you hate me so much? I've never met you. I've never said anything about you or your life. I'm just trying to understand this. And I've never seen a faster switch of tone. He immediately was like, oh, hey, dude. Oh, it's not personal and I have nothing against you.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I just thought it was funny to pile on. And he said, in all honesty, I have nothing against you. I actually think you're quite funny, but I don't think you're going to succeed. I think the show will fail and you're going to crash and burn. And then I said to him, okay, let's make a deal. if I'm still on the air in six months, you'll stay on as a lifelong viewer.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And then if I'm gone, I will retweet your tweet and I'll say you were right. And he was like, oh, deal. And then he was like, good luck, man. I'm wishing you the best. And then six months later, I DM'd him again. I was like, yo, are you still watching? And he's like, oh, the show's gotten so great. So, And you know what he made me realize?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
No, but you know what he made me realize? I'm honestly eternally grateful to him because he made me realize that most of, not all of, but most of the poisonous infighting that you have in America is due to the fact that most people are speaking past each other, not to each other and with each other. A hundred percent. Like people don't actually engage. People don't see each other as human beings.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It's all a theoretical exercise. But you'll be surprised to find that most people, when you sit down with them and actually, if you're forced to have a type, like a conversation where you connect, people start to see each other as humans that exist beyond their political affiliation.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And it's just a game. It's like sports fans. I think American politics has become like sports where you say everything to the opposing fans. But you don't mean it, mean it, but you go like, this is the purpose of what we're doing. We're here to tell them that they need to die, and we want to kill their players, and we hate everything they do, and the ref is biased when he rules in their favor.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
But when you meet in a grocery store, then they're humans because they're doing the same thing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, but I mean, they've spent the money, and it's like, I get annoyed, but I... You see, it's funny. For me, the rivalries are more games that I'll think of, but Manchester City, I find... My point was, I say I hate them, but then I like all the players on the team.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So... I don't follow politics as a hobby. What I try to do is understand which conversations can exist beyond the noise. You know, I often try and explain to people when I'm having conversations with them is, So the most interesting thing about the US system for me is the fact that it leads people to believe that there are only two ways to do something.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You know, it's Republican and it's Democrat. And I've never understood that framing, to be honest with you. I've never even understood how... how newspapers will report. And these are like distinguished newspapers. They'll write a story that leads with Democrats win with, and it's a law that's changed. But I go, no, that should just be the law has changed and that should be how you report it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So I follow it now to try and understand where the issue lies and the politics ends. Because issues are real. Politics are how we try and solve the issues. But politics is not real. It's not actually a real thing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
That is true. I will say, you know, if you want to liken it back to sports, I always say to my American friends, I go... I see why soccer was never the most popular game and might never be. It's because in soccer, we have a draw. We sometimes say, you know what? Neither team won, neither team lost. This was a great game. Everybody go home. It's winners and losers.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And so if politics is also about winners and losers, then nobody wants to concede because it automatically means that they've lost, which isn't a good way to have politics.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Politics should never be about winning or losing. It should be about compromising and then, you know, understanding that the majority, it's even strange. Do you ever think about it? When you look at America's results, I'm always shocked at how states are called blue or red. And then you look at the number and it's like 51%. And people confidently say, well, that's a red state.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, but a lot of that I will blame, you know, to what you said, Sean, is like I think the media has to take a lot of blame for that because the media has enjoyed turning it into a game and the media has enjoyed turning it into a spectacle. And so if they reinforce that narrative, then I find lawmakers... You know, one of the most interesting experiences I had when I first came to America was...
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I went to New Hampshire for the primaries. And this is literally, I've been in America for barely a year. Now I'm in New Hampshire, you know, and Vermont and all of these places. And I will never forget seeing, there were two politicians who were, you know, on the stump and they were giving their speeches and it was vitriolic. And they were, you know, this person is going to destroy the country.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
They're going to do this, they... And then in the evening, I saw them at a diner and the two of them were sitting together laughing and they were like, how's your family? How's everything going?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
In many ways, it's almost like wrestling. It's like American politics. You see these people in the ring and it's like, Triple H, I'm going to rip you limb from limb. And as a fan, you're like, yeah, kill him, kill him. And then only to find out that like your favorite wrestler who hates the other wrestler in your mind is actually great friends and is the godfather to their child.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I think American politicians don't do the country a service. They do it a disservice by not showing everybody that they do get along, that they go out together, that they have meals, that they're friends, they're at each other's weddings.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
That's it. Yeah, it's completely in service of commerce. If I break it down into three levels, I'd go, you know, on the media side, I wish they would stop turning it into the spectacle that they do, but they probably won't, as you say, because the money's there. Or that's what they want to get, you know, They turn it into a sport.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So if they can turn it into a football game, they'll do it. But on the ground as well, I think as people, that's something that I found strange coming to America is how people would say, I am a Democrat. I am a Republican. And I'll be like, what? What does that mean? Where I come from, people just talk about how they voted, but they are not the thing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And I think if you take yourself away from being the thing, you allow yourself the opportunity to either be disappointed by the thing or step away from the thing when it is necessary. Because you shouldn't be, I am a Liverpool supporter, is correct. We will go up and down with Liverpool. Whereas in politics, you should just say, I voted for this and then I voted against it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You can establish your mark earlier in the podcast. No, no, no. Don't do that to Sean, guys. Don't do that. I know what he means. And I'll tell you why, Sean. It's funny. I don't think the Grammys is the same as like the Emmys or the Oscars or any of those shows. Well, I'm an actor, so I'm like, I watch those more. Yeah, but also the Grammys is like hosting a concert.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
The Emmys and the Oscars and all these other awards, they do feel like an award show. The Grammys just feels to me like a concert.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
That's great. I've definitely developed a greater appreciation for artists. Seeing them rehearse, seeing how hard it is to get everything right, seeing them do it live, that's what's definitely increased. And then also my palettes. Every time I'm at the Grammys, I discover a new artist that I now become a fan of. What about a full genre?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I listen to way more country now than I ever did. You know what I mean? Everybody, like the Luke Combs, you name it. I just got into it because you would hear the song so many times in rehearsal and you'd see how amazing it could be. And then you fall in love with it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Oh, I don't have anybody's number, to be honest with you. You don't go, hey, hey, hey, it'd be great to hang out. I was in a band, you can have my number. I would gladly take your number. This is a strange thing to say, but like, so I always found it strange that people would try to be friends just because they're in a similar space. So I don't know how to explain it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, but okay, so this is what would happen to me, all right? You would all probably understand this. I remember when I first came to America, and now I would get invited to events because, you know, part of the Daily Show, and you go to these events, and everyone would be like, oh, we should hang out. Take my number. Oh, my God, Trevor, we got to hang out sometime. We got to get a coffee.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I'm there all the time. We got to do it. And I would give people my number, and in my head I was like, wow, I'm making so many friends. These people are so friendly. This is amazing. And then I would hear nothing from them. I would message them. I would hear nothing. They wouldn't respond at all. People, by the way, people in Hollywood change their numbers all the time.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Like I don't even know who, like everyone has like a new number all the time. And then what would happen was, this was my favorite, one of my favorite memories. I met somebody, and this has happened a few times. I met the same person at another event, maybe like a year later. And they're like, oh my God, Trevor, this is, oh man, how have you been? Congratulations. Man, we got to hang out.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Let me get your number. Let me get, and I was like, I think you have my number. And they're like, no, no, no. No, I changed phones and I got a whole day. Didn't your number? I was like, my number didn't change. Like, no. And then I put my number in on their phone. And you know, when you type it in on the screen, then my name just popped up. And I was like, you have my number. I'm like, wait, what?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Oh, let me tell you. Okay, I have the greatest Jason Bateman story, for me at least. For me at least. I don't know if you remember. This is easily, easily my favorite memory of you. It's also a horrific memory, but now I laugh at it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So I was invited to a, it was a Netflix party before one of the Emmys. It was for like a whole bunch of nominees before the Emmys. And Ted Sarandos was hosting this event and everyone's gathered. And it was, I mean, it was star-studded. It was crazy. And you don't see these people all the time. That's the misconception everyone has is that if you're on the same platform, you just hang out.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I was just standing there, you know. And I look across the garden where this event's being held and I see Jason. And I'm like, oh my God. And I've loved you forever. I go, you easily won like my favorite comedy performance. I mean, all of you are in different things. Like Sean, I used to watch Will and Grace with my mom.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Don't throw the compliments away. I mean it. Like literally the timing, the cadence, the everything. Will, everything you do on like BoJack Horseman. So I love comedy. I love the technique.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You're easily one of my favorite funny people ever. But at that time, Ozark was just, it was my life. It was the best anything I had seen that had flipped the whole genre of like, you know, drugs and everything.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I thought it was very funny actually so I see you and you see me standing across the way and you look at me and you just gave me like a little eyebrow like hello and I was like oh damn okay and so I walked over to you And I said, hello, and you were very kind. You're like, hi, how are you? And I immediately went to, I was effusive. I said, I love everything you do.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And I just, I went and I said, you did this. And I was like, I love game nights and I love this. And I was just listing everything because I love, I genuinely love them all. And, but then I said, I said to you, I said, oh, and most recently you crushed it. You know, I didn't think Ant-Man was going to be good. And it was phenomenal that you did it.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And you listened to me break down the whole Ant-Man everything. And then you paused. And I swear it was like you had written this. Your face, you went like, huh. And he said, do you think that I am Paul Rudd? And I will never forget that moment. And I went, no, I thought that Paul Rudd was you. I gave him, but it's true. I was like, I gave him your performance is how good I think you are.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And we just stared at each other awkwardly for a moment. And you said, huh, did you come here because you thought I was someone else? And I said, no. But you said Ant-Man. And I said, I would rather say that I'm racist and you will look the same than admit that that happened. And then we just stood there awkwardly for a moment. And you were very nice.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
We just stood there and we… And I said, well, one day we'll meet again. Hopefully under different…
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Here's another one before you carry on. This was, can I just say, so, you know, obviously I'm a huge fan of the podcast and I understand the format, but here's the thing. I didn't know that the surprise guest was really a surprise thing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, so we were at the Vanity Fair Oscars party. Right. Yeah. And I saw you.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, and Will walks by. Will walks by. You walked straight to me, Will, but you walked to me with the confidence of somebody who knows that I'm coming on to the podcast. Yeah. And you were like, hey. And then you said, yo, I'm so excited. And I didn't know what, I was like, oh. And then I was like, I'm so excited to chat to you.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And then as I said that, Jason was behind you staring at me like I had killed his whole family. He couldn't hear anything, by the way. He was just staring at me. And I said, I'm so excited to chat to you about Formula One. And then we started talking about Formula One.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And then I was like, oh, let's just get into Formula 1. And you did look at me like, man, this guy really went deep into Formula 1 in the middle of an Oscars party.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And then you walked away, and then Jason came up to me, and he said, please, you didn't say anything. You don't fuck this up. You're the surprise guest. You don't. I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. And then he walked away.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Okay. No, no, I've been everywhere actually, yeah. No, I do enjoy it. Yeah, I mean, I went to, so in South Africa, in school, you wear school uniform your whole life. So I actually like dressing up like that because I feel like it's no stress. I go, yeah, you put on the pants, you put on the jacket and you know you're doing it right. And then you have a good time.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, I wear comfortable shoes. My toes are all individually spaced out. It's wonderful. Yeah.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I really want to go this is the same thing This is the same thing I get in most of my hate mail. When are you going back to Africa?
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
time yeah i'm there all the time i go especially like since i left the daily show i get to go back a lot more you know i spend time with my mom spend time with family i'm i'm there i would say i'm there like every two two months two really that's so nice that's great yeah i love how long a flight 16 hours from new york and then 20 it becomes like a weird 25 ish hour journey from um from l.a from l.a wow so yeah it's 16 hours direct south african airways right yeah
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
No, no, no. Actually, United is the only airline that flies there now. Really? Yeah. So, you know, life giveth and life taketh away.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Oh, I love this place. So here's the thing, yeah. Here's the thing about America is... I think, again, you see nuance is maybe what is lacking sometimes. I think people take for granted that you can live in a place where you find it both amazing and at many times disappointing, depending on what you're experiencing of it. Yeah.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You know, people sometimes walk up to me in the streets and they'll be like, you hate America, you piece of trash. Why don't you leave? And I'm like, who said I... I would not live anywhere I hate. Let's start with that. Secondly, I genuinely find a lot of America amazing. And I find... It's the optimism that is etched into the very fabric of the country that I find amazing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah. I mean... So here's the thing. When I was going in to take over The Daily Show, I don't think I felt the amount of pressure that I should have felt. Because I didn't grow up with The Daily Show. And I met Jon Stewart just as a stand-up comedian meeting another stand-up comedian. And I mean, we still talk about that now. Now that Jon has gone back to hosting the show,
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You know, it's an amazing country where black people at a time when they had no rights believed that there was a path for them to get equal rights. Even that is a strange level of optimism that I think is beautiful and profound.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And I think it's a wonderful trait to hold on to and to never lose. And so while America has many faults, other countries have many. I travel all the time, so... I'm under no illusion. I don't think of America as best or worst. I just think every place has the issues that it is dealing with at the time that it's dealing with them.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
There's something I've always loved about Americans and America as a place and how different each state and each city is. I'm eternally grateful to be here.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I split it. I find the East Coast is great for your mind. The West Coast is great for your body. And I mean your body, not physically, but just like, I feel like you breathe a little more. You sleep better. You eat better. It just has a calming effect on you. But the East Coast is great to get your brain just like really stimulated and going.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Well, yeah. You've got to think of America like a Boeing airplane. You should appreciate the fact that it can fly and the fact that it does is pretty amazing. I mean, the fact that this tin can is floating in the sky at 40,000 feet, that's pretty amazing. That's wild.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
But if you stop paying attention to it and you don't try and constantly improve it, then the doors might fall off and the landing gears might fail.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
No, but actually, because you're a Liverpool fan and an F1 fan, we actually should hang out. We can just watch the things, and then even if we say nothing, we had a good time.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
we'll still share the stories of how ironically the other day we were on the phone and I was saying to him, it's funny that we've gone full circle. When we first spoke, it was on the phone and I was traveling through like Dubai and England doing comedy shows. And then now when we spoke and he's host again, I'm traveling and I was literally in Dubai calling him, having another conversation.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It's literally gone through a circle. But I wasn't nervous. And then I think after the first few episodes, then the nerves kicked in, which is strange. Normally it's the other way around.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And a better idea of how people reacted to it. I think that was the biggest thing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Huh, that's an interesting one. And then tell us what joke you can't tell in Dubai. So what joke really kills in Dubai? So whenever I travel, you know, for my shows, it makes it a lot harder, but what I love to do is find... comedy that I could only do in that region.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So I was trying to find something, you know, whether it's an observation, whether it's an experience, but just something that you could only say in Dubai and then someone who's not living there would go, wait, what does that mean? So I'll try to tell a few jokes that have like an Arabic punchline or, you know, I'll play with something in that world.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, well, I mean, the Emiratis are pretty wealthy, but then most of the audience is expats. I think it's like 90%. Yeah, 90%. It's one of the most diverse audiences you'll perform for. Oh, that's so great. I love that.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, when I had to take over The Daily Show, I had to let go of a bunch of dates that were happening around the world. So I just got a foothold into touring all over the, you know, all over the planets.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It's funny, you know, I'm never offended by that. I don't know, some people apologize for that. Again, I find it's quite common for people to say that in America. They'll say, I'm sorry, I didn't know you. It's a strange thing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, but surely you don't know somebody before you know them. That's how knowing people works. I'm always intrigued by that. I'm writing that down.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Yeah, so it was really random. So I started comedy in South Africa, performed there my whole life. I was lucky enough that we... What part of South Africa were you... So I was born in Johannesburg, raised in Soweto and Johannesburg, and then that's where I did most of my comedy. We didn't have a comedy club, so...
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Just to give you a bit of a backstory, I'm assuming you know, but if you don't, so during apartheid, free speech was illegal in South Africa, right? And so you weren't allowed to gather, you know, a group of black people weren't allowed to be in one space and there were all these laws.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So stand-up comedy, obviously, you know, is one of the first things that's outlawed in any place that restricts speech. Wow. So we didn't even have comedy clubs. We didn't have anything. And then once democracy started in 1994, all of a sudden there was just like a boon of new, a boon of people being like, can we sit together? Can we laugh together? God, that must have been exciting.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And comedy blew up in the most informal places. Comedy was this huge explosion. And you were how old at that time? No, so I only got into comedy, in 94, I'm six years old. I only got into comedy when I was 20, I want to say 21. And it was still new. You couldn't make a living from comedy, which I loved about it. It really was something that everyone was doing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It wasn't like in the US where people would do comedy so they could get a sitcom, so they could become a movie star. No, there it was, you do comedy because you like comedy.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Oh, yeah. Well, I think that's what all comedy is, even in the US, to be honest with you. Yeah. I think everyone's doing comedy to escape their horrible upbringing.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
No, no, no. I mean this honestly. You know why. I don't like numbers when they're good and I don't like them when they're bad. Right.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Why don't you like them when they're good? Because if you live by the good numbers, then you must die by the bad numbers.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
You know what? Not pressure. Not pressure. We... It's... It's so much fun, man. It's hard to explain. So the difference between the two places, I find, in America, fame is almost like royalty.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
Silence, knave. In South Africa, it's just like people know you. Everyone just treats you like you're part of a big family. That's how it feels.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
I was pretty well known before I left South Africa. So it was just like, oh, congratulations, you've gone and put us on the world stage doing something. That's great.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It's funny. My life went the other way around. When I first started The Daily Show, I was actually earning less than I was doing stand-up around the world. I was working hard and I was doing pretty well. So it was really taking the job because of the challenge and the opportunity.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
As for the thread count, I think my life became a little bit worse because now I was in New York in the winters, walking down the street in like a mini blizzard, walking down like 11th Avenue. I don't know if you've been to the Daily Show studios in New York. It is one of the worst parts of New York.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
It's really shitty. Dangerous would be better because then it means people are there to do something to you.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
So I got a call. It's one of those moments where you remember exactly what was happening, but not because of how momentous it was in that moment, rather because of how random the thing is that I was doing. I was in London. I was doing my first tour of the UK. And on this particular day, I was standing in Harrods, the mega department store that sells everything.
SmartLess
"Trevor Noah"
And when I say everything, I mean everything. You all probably know it. And I couldn't afford anything in Harrods. Maybe some of the croissants, I don't know. And I was standing in front of an underwater moped. Like an underwater scooter thing. Like you ride it like a motorbike, but underwater. I have one.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Welcome to What Now?, another episode of the podcast where this time I'm in South Africa. And if you've listened to enough of the podcast, you'll know that when I'm in South Africa, that means I'm with my people. And when I'm with my people, we create different episodes. On one of the first ones I did, I did for my 40th birthday, was Anilem Doda, a good friend of mine. She's a broadcaster.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
If I may ask, so what heritage is this child? Is this a... Same as I like it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So you didn't even have like a little African swag you could pull out just a little something.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
This is actually more dynamic and interesting. I was picturing a white kid and I was like, no, this sounds normal.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So I don't, I'll probably butcher some of it. I'm bad with remembering numbers, but there was a child psychologist who once told me for boys and girls, it's slightly different, but I believe from like zero to two or three, it's all mom. It's just all mom, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And then I think from like three to like seven, 10, and it changes for boys and girls, it's mom and dad in terms of like, just like parental household vibe. But then to your point, they say for boys specifically, once they hit like 10, 11, 12, somewhere there, It's all about uncle, as they call it. It's all about other men or male figures outside the household. Could be a coach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You gave us such specific ones for the first two.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Is there a part of you that wonders if your mom Tai Chi has been enough?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Whether it's spending time with loved ones, sharing laughs with your pets, reading your new favorite book, or simply unwinding. For me, it's all about creating a space that's really inviting. And that's where Brooklinen comes in. You see, the special thing that they've got, in my opinion, is they've got a mastering of texture. They've just figured it out. Their sheets are so soft.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I just want to rewind to the point when you said, I don't want my son to be scared of me. Bruh.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yes. In other houses, they leave the lights off and they let you sleep until the morning. That's how other houses do it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And I have to like negotiate with a 10 year old terrorist essentially. And just hope that their logic coincides with yours. You know, I don't know if I ever told you the story. So Isaac, my youngest brother, right? Him and the middle brother was staying with me in LA and they'd come to visit me and it was this whole thing. And we're there for like Christmas.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And they've now gotten to an age where they're big enough that I have to negotiate with them. But they're still young enough that they do crazy shit. Right? So one day we're all having dinner together. We order food. But we plate it. Because I want them to feel civilized. You know what I mean? Because I'm also the person who eats out the box. But let's do like a family thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Then you add in the comforter, which I'll be honest, during this winter, I've really been loving. And that, my friends, is the perfect equation. And I'm not the only person who feels this way. Brooklinen's bedding is highly tested and awarded. Good Housekeeping, GQ, Wirecutter, they all rank their goods super highly. Brooklinen bedding, sheets, and more have over 200,000 five-star reviews.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Let's take the food out of the box and put it on a plate like we cooked it. Cool. So we all eat. We put things together. Everything's great. We're done. And... When we're done, it's time to clean up. And I say, guys, help me. Let's take everything to the kitchen. And I take like one bowl, one glass. My brothers stack everything. They stack, stack, stack, stack, stack everything.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I'm like, what are you guys doing? They're like, we're taking it to the kitchen. I was like, guys, guys, guys, take one thing at a time. You can come back, eh? My other brother's like, he's like, yeah, but I can do this. I got this. I was like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not about whether you've got this. Take one thing at a time. You're stacking like everything. You know what I mean?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
He's like, yeah, but I'll be fine. I was like, no, no, no, no. You think you'll be fine until you're not fine. Please just take one thing at a time. He's like, okay. So I go to the kitchen with the one thing. And now, you know, we're doing that thing where we're crossing. So one person goes to the table, other person, one person goes to the table.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
As I'm at the table with the youngest, Isaac, we're chatting. I hear smash on the other side of the house. Glass shattering. And you know, you know what, it's not even like, I'm like, oh, is there a break in? I know exactly what glass that was. So go to the kitchen. I'm like, yo, bro, what happened? Oh yeah, the glass dropped. I'm like, the glass didn't just drop.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
The glass dropped because you took more things than I told you to. Then he's like, oh yeah, my bad. Then I'm like, no, not your bad. Not your bad. I told you the thing. So now we're having this like, you know, and he's not even fighting. He's being like very polite and everything. And so now the youngest is like running with the stuff. So he's doing one and one, but he's sprinting back and forth.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So I'm like, okay, no running. So many rules, Trevor. This is what he says. He's like, geez, bro. He's like, so many rules. I'm like, yes, these are the rules for how you make sure that the stuff in your kitchen stays around. Right? And also you don't hurt yourself. You see? So he's running. Guys, at some point I go, yo, I said, walk slowly. Take the things one by one.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
He's like, yo, but I run all the time. I'll be good. I was like, yo, just take the things. He's like, but why do I have to do it? And I'll never forget this. In that moment, he's like, why do I have to? And I was like, because I said so. And you know when like every parent flashed in front, I was like, ah, ah, I have become death. He became Raven. But did he accept that? No, he didn't.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
But I've always said my youngest brother is probably the smartest person we've ever had in our family and the most emotionally intelligent. He sat with it. He did what I said. And he came back maybe like 10 minutes later. You know, now there's like a weird feeling in the house. But he came back to me and he said, he said, hey, Trev. He said, I just wanted to apologize for what happened.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I didn't mean to offend you. I was like, yeah, I get it. I'm sorry too, you know. And he says, but here's the thing. He's like, the reason I keep asking you why when you tell me to do things, it's not because I want to undermine who you are as a person. He's like, it's because I don't understand why you're doing things the way you do them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So if I just do them the way you do them, I never really believe in it. I'm just doing it because I've learned it as a rote identity. He's like, but if I actually learn why you do it the way you do, then maybe I can adopt it as my own. And then if I'm challenged by somebody or something one day, I'll know why I do it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So the reason I ask you why is not because I'm challenging you as my big brother. It's just because I really want to understand why you actually do it. Because I don't want to be a robot. I want to be a human being who believes in my actions. So, you know what it made me realize is like, I realize that every parent and every adult figure in a child's life will have that frustration.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You are bound to be frustrated because you are proposing every idea through the lens of logic and experience. But your kids, rightfully, I think in many ways, are also here to test what those boundaries are. If every child, even us, think of us, the three of us sitting here and everyone who's listening. If you did everything the way your parents did it, half the time you wouldn't be where you are.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You wouldn't have discovered a new way to work, a new type of job, a new career, a new country, a new language, a new sport, a new religion, a new style of dressing. A new relationship. Yeah, like you literally have to break what they've taught you to make something new. And the difficulty, as you say, is we're all winging it. We don't know what will or won't work.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
It's just in these moments where you go... Look, when we say get out of the pool, get out of the pool. But it's a tough one. Because it's like, do you have a... Because I've never had a friend who's a mom. Do you get what I'm saying? Like a friend-friend relationship.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So, shop award winners and fan favorites in-store or online at brooklinen.com. That's B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-N dot com. Get 15% off your first order today.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No. What I'm saying is, so what I'm saying is, I've never been in the position where I can say this to you and ask you honestly, like, do you have a, it's not like you can have a fixed number, but do you have a number of how much you're willing to tolerate his boundary pushing because you think it might be what creates something bigger and more beautiful than you've ever considered?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Did you knock at 3 a.m.? You didn't. That was a surprise.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Oh, okay. Oh, nice. Nice. Hey, I see. You know when law enforcement finds all these loopholes? Oh, we didn't need a search warrant because it wasn't your home.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
She is an executive producer, an all-around media mogul, and most importantly, a super mom. And my other friend, Sisu Edlomo. He's a TV presenter, a radio host, a business person in economics. I think he has a degree in something. He studies a lot, whatever. The point is, he's a friend and we're going to be chatting together. Disclaimer for everyone who listens. These are South Africans.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
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What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Member FDIC. Terms and more at applecard.com. Did you ever have a bad influence? Because I know you weren't the bad influence.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No, but I'm saying as a kid, like, did you have a friend where they were like your bad influence? Because I was... The bad influence. In many ways, yes, I will say. But I also think I had many friends. I think we were renegades together, to be honest.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You sound like you've never been a child. No, but listen to me. Guys, I knew. Let me tell you something. Yeah. When I was opening the TV in the living room. Yes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah, when I was unscrewing the whole thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah, the wrong or the right. All right, well, if you need, you know, outside models, role models, you let us know.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I'm probably going to say even at this age, I will bring a little bit of bad influence, but always respectful. One thing my teachers always said, Trevor's very respectful. But he's very troublesome. He's very disruptive in class, but very respectful. And oftentimes does not apply himself, but very respectful. There was no disrespect in what I was doing. Do you know what I mean?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yes ma'am No ma'am Yes ma'am I was the one Who put the firecracker In the toilet ma'am Yes ma'am That is correct ma'am
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Can you still say Happy New Year? Yeah, dude, of course. What do you mean?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I told you guys, let's not go there. Now you're sharing a cell. You see? So I hear what you're saying. One caveat I'd like to throw into this and one counter argument is if we live in a world where everyone completely believes in themselves, I think we have a little less social cohesion. We should never take for granted how powerful peer pressure is in society.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So when you're on the road and you see that you could drive in the emergency lane and just get ahead of everyone, peer pressure is the only thing keeping you back. Yeah, you might be like, oh, the police. No, no, no. But beyond that, there's an element of knowing that every other road user is in some way, shape, or form going to be against you, and you're like, I'm not going to do it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
When you're standing in a line at an airport or anywhere else, and you see that you could cut and you could get ahead, peer pressure is the only thing stopping you from doing it. You're not going to get arrested. Do you get what I'm saying? I think there's a weird... and we don't know what the knobs perfectly are.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
It's interesting that you say that. We don't know what the balance is, but the world always fine tunes you. So, okay, my argument is this, and this may sound a little anarchist, but it's not. But like, I don't believe we know and I don't think there is a right because I think every piece needs to exist.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So like, on the one hand, you need like a renegade to be like a Steve Jobs, let's say, where he goes, no, we're going to do this. And people are like, you can't do it. And he's like, we're going to do it. And then he does it. And then now everyone's like, oh yeah, this is how it should have been. But then there's also some renegades who are like Jeffrey Dahmer.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Otherwise, we're not close. I've never thought of a scale, like a gradient for when you can say... Everything is on the spectrum, bro. Yeah, you're truly a math guy for everything. Cesar's got like a graph for everything. The x-axis is friendship time.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Jeffrey Dahmer didn't suffer from peer pressure, I'm assuming. I don't think he was like, what are my friends going to say? He did his thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So here's the thing. So all I'm saying is, I believe that there isn't one fixed way or not way. I think a system will always find entropy. It will always find a place where it exists for the best of what it is trying to do. But I think you can create a child or you think you can try your best to create a child who does not care about what anyone else says.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And I think those types of people are assholes in the world as well because they don't care about what anyone else says. And then there are some people who care too much about what everyone else says and then they are at the whims of the crowd.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I was like, wow, this guy's about to quote Joe Biden. I was like, damn, I don't think I've ever heard anyone quote Joe Biden.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So, okay, it's actually funny you say that. Because I think that's a perfect segue to my worry. I agree that the world will affirm you or challenge you, right? Right. but I don't think that that is based in absolute truths. So sometimes you will be affirmed or challenged based on the circumstance or the situation.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Exactly, exactly. So now let's go to my worry. The reason I say I think the global slash liberal slash whatever experiment has failed is because there was a time when many politicians around the world started to believe, and I'm sure there was another time when this happened with trading in general, but they said, you know what? we could be connecting the world in interesting and different ways.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You know, you could make something in China or you could make it in any country where it's developing really. And that means the country where they're selling it to, they can focus on different types of labor. They can be more specialized. They can work in offices. They can do this. So they'll actually be selling a different product to the world. Their product might be a service.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
It might be something digital. And then the people who are using that, they might buy something else and they might, but we're all connected. It's going to be a Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're all, and it's the circle of life. You know what I mean? It's like this beautiful world where money's flowing from one place to the next.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And now, and Cesar, you're the economics guy, so I'm sure you can speak to it deeper than I can. But like, I feel like what happened was, first and foremost, the money dammed up in a way that no one really predicted. Yeah. So the money didn't move around the world. It didn't stay in Bangladesh and Vietnam and all these places where the workers are making it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Happy New Year, guys. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you too. Yeah, man. Stranger? What do you mean stranger?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
It very quickly left those places and went into bank accounts in certain parts of the world, right? The people working even at these companies in those parts of the world, it doesn't matter how big these corporations are. But one of the things I find particularly interesting is how
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
like we've accepted this as normal and maybe we won't for a while, where companies can hire people to help them make profits. Once they've achieved that profit, they can fire all of those people And hire people for the next. To help them make more profits, right? So this is the second part of it, why I think it's failing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I think we were never fully prepared to communicate with everyone everywhere all the time without understanding the nuances and the complexities that come with everybody's understanding of the world. You know, in the same way that we're worried about like what we say to aliens, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Not even when they arrive. You've seen we've sent, we've sent like things to space. Okay, signals like. Yeah, yeah. We've sent capsules. Yeah, okay. And then they'll choose. They go, we've put some Mozart, some Beethoven. We've sent, but there's also like crazy shit we've sent. We've sent like a random like rock and roll song. That could sound like a war anthem. I don't know.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Or maybe Mozart sounds like war to an alien. I don't know. Right? You really don't know.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No, but we've also sent like plants and seeds and we've tried to send what we think encapsulates the human race is what we've done.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Even then. And so now I'm saying social media as a whole, the whole connected idea of it. Forget like actual social media. Yeah. just don't think we ever prepared for it. We never prepared for a message to cross borders and cultures in the way that it does. It may connect us in moments, but I think it's ripping us apart at the seams in more places than we ever thought.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And so I think, that's why I think the whole thing is falling apart. I think in South Africa, where we are at right now, I think we're going to see only more xenophobia. We're going to see more people not wanting immigrants to come into the country. And In many people's defense, by the way, not just in South Africa, in the US, in Europe, etc.,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
If we use the binary, we can be very quick to say these people are hateful. It's very easy to do that. But the underlying issue is true in many places.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
All right. All right. At least you're on form. We're in the mix. I think differently about the conversations we're going to have because I enjoy... delving into your minds as friends, but also as problem solvers. And then I find sometimes when we have these conversations, like the last one we did on the podcast, people were just like, oh yeah, that was an interesting conversation.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Okay, so the hood versus the village, essentially.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No, no, no. But this is what I mean. I mean that the experiment was, it felt like it was working for a moment. So here's the thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I want to live in a land-listic country. No. So I agree with you. And what I'm saying though is this was an experiment. Remember, we're always conducting an experiment. Like you said with your son, you're winging it. We're also winging it. I think this is something we should always acknowledge as people. And I think not enough politicians do and not enough leaders do.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
They make it seem like we know. So I've seen people who talk about like socialism. They know. People talk about communism. They know. People talk about capitalism. They know. But I'm like, guys, you don't know. We're all winging it with as much information as we have. We're gathering data points, as you say, right? Yeah. So there was no communism until there was.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
There was no socialism until there was. There was no capitalism until there was, right? What I'm saying is this experiment that we're conducting now, I worry that it's failing, but I worry that it's failing because the reason I worry about it failing is because of the ramifications on the other side. So. But that's how revolutions come. This is my point.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Everything has a reset. You see, this is my point. I don't like your tone when you say these things, Sizwe. You say very. It will happen. No, no, no. But he says it in a very, your tone is positive. But the message you're giving is like, you're like, yes, well, that's a revolution.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
That's a reset. And everyone's going to die. Yes, but your tone, you must deliver in like, well, that's a reset. You are worried that you're living on the cusp. Yes, completely.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Let me tell you something about a revolution. It's disruptive. And nobody knows what comes out on the other side. You think I have power. a revolution completely disrupts power. You think, oh, but I'm of the people. Revolutions also squash the people. And the outcome of a revolution is not predictable, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And you guys, your friendship. And what I realized is friendship is almost the cooking apparatus that we use to figure things out. Does that make sense? I get you. Because everyone can have a conversation.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
More or less. No, okay. So this is what I mean. I'll just throw them out at you and maybe you'll understand the picture that I'm seeing. Let's say in America, right? It was interesting to see how even amongst themselves, the Trump mega crowd is experiencing like a fraying connection between the people. In a microcosm, you look at the Trump party.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
But I find when you have a conversation with your people, there are extra ingredients and extra tools that you have, namely your friendship, that defines some of the conversation that you can't get with a stranger.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I don't call it the Republican party, it's the Trump party. You would think within that world, everyone would just be like, yeah, we know what we're doing. We're doing it, right? Look at the thing that happened with Elon Musk and the H1B1 visas. Elon Musk is rolling with Donald Trump. They're like, hey, we know what we're doing. We're planning this new world order.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Elon's like, hey man, I have a new best friend. I paid $250 million for him. So I want to hang out with him all the time. Trump is like, Trump needs his mom to come to me at three in the morning. Trump is like, you're a bit of a loser. I wanted your money. Go away. That's because you can see Trump knows cool and not cool. Like you saw when Trump was sitting with Obama. Say what you want.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
But Trump was like, this guy's cool. You could see he was like, all those fancy things. He was trying to make him laugh. And he was making him laugh. Trump was like, this guy's cool. I need this guy's approval. Exactly. Because Trump knows cool. Say what you want about him. Say what you want about him. Say what you want about him. So...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
When I look at the Elon Musk thing, it's amazing to see how quickly what I'm talking about is affecting everyone. Because Elon Musk and his people go, all right, now we know what we're doing. Trump fans and supporters are like, actually, no. Like Steve Bannon goes, no, no, no. Hey, I actually don't like this agenda.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Why are we hiring these people from India and from these places to come and work on these companies? Elon's like, because we need them. Then Steve Bannon's like, no, we don't need them. We need them because we haven't created a world where Americans are the ones that are needed.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Then the tech guys say, yes, but like Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk, they say, yeah, but Americans are not trained enough and they're not smart enough. Then these guys are like, oh, you're saying Americans are stupid. Is that what you're saying? They're like, no. And then the other guy's like, yes, I am saying that. Then he's like, why don't we train Americans?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Then he's like, no, because it's not supposed to work like that. And then even within that little confine, you see the thing falling apart. The promise...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
hasn't been delivered right because white americans were told stop your factory things we got this don't worry so what's going to happen is you're going to just move forward right and your company you're going to wear a suit and tie and you're going to have a different job and you're going to get great money worked for a moment then companies as you say capital does what capital does companies were like we could actually make more money with less
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And why are we paying American workers when we could be paying people from India or Bangladesh less? And even if they come into the country, we can force them to work a ton of hours because what are they going to say? No? And they'll be a lot more appreciative of the dollar. Exactly. Because they have a visa. Exactly. And now even within that tiny world, you see the experiment failing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And now there Steve Bannon comes and says, Elon Musk is a white South African who is racist and born from apartheid. We cannot allow him into the White House. Now, people watching this are like, wait, Steve Bannon is saying this guy's racist. No one knows what to do with it. No one knows what to do with it. Yeah. No one knows. But that's just one example.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Then you look at South Africa and how South Africans are now going like, actually, actually, no, no, no, we're not trying to help Africa. No, no, we're just trying to do our own thing. Then you look at Europe. Europe's like, no, no, no, no, no. Close, close here. Germany. They're like, hey, man, this whole immigrant thing. Actually, no, no, no, no, no, we're not. Then you look at like banking.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Wait, do you think that's still a thing? Yes. You guys do to us. No, no, no. And this is an honest question. Yeah. In fact, this is a great question to kick us off because the conversation I wanted to have with you was, what are you worried about?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You look at hiring. Look at AI itself. We are on a fast track to people turning around and saying, wait a minute, if AI is doing every job, who's doing a job? And if nobody's doing a job, who's buying things? And if nobody's buying things, what are we doing?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And that's what I'm saying has failed. I'm saying the thing that was sold to people was prosperity for all. That has not happened, whether it's South Africa, whether it's the United States, whether it's parts of Europe.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No, they argue. People are now disagreeing. I hear you.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
going into the new year moving forward right because a lot of people have like a positive outlook yeah but i'll start with that funny enough do you think canceling is still a thing i think it's finished
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now? after this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
This is where I disagree. I think a lot of the scarcity that we think is real in the world isn't real. That's the first thing. And I think a lot of it is created by institutions and companies that need you to consume. So for instance, a simple example is your phone, right? Everyone has the new iPhone until Apple releases the next iPhone.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
It is literally even the day before launch, you have the latest iPhone. And then one day later, you now have an old iPhone. So you're right.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
That's what the problem is. So what I'm saying is I agree completely. I'm saying we are and we have been. And look, there may not be a perfect world for this. But I think there's also a lot of artificial scarcity and a lot of artificial distribution that has now… And it's at an all-time high. I agree with you. The perfect example is water.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Guys, I don't understand how we live in a world where water is owned by companies and we are all going to have to buy water from corporations. Guys, everywhere in the world… I read that about LA. There are a couple owned over water in LA. It's a farming family. They own water. You're like, how do you own water? Who did you buy it from? But that's my problem. Who owned it before you?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
But that's my point. Because the water goes under my house as well. How come I can't stop the water? Do you see what I'm saying? So now, Cesar, I get what you're saying economically, but I'm saying that's why all of these things, I worry that we are going to hit too many at the same time.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And that thing is going to be... I don't know if it will be a revolution or... But I think we are on track, unless there's some sort of correction somewhere. We are only on track for a mass ending correction type thing, revolution, whatever you want to call it. I cannot see another way.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yes, but and what is a state? A state is a collection of people. It's a fiction that we've all agreed to. So now the problem is when the state sell it to private people, where do we end up? In revolution. So by the way, Cicero is not helping me at all because he's affirming everything I'm saying. Imagine if we were doing that with Alake.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
But here's what, remember what my original statement was. Yes. I'm worried that the experiment is failing because remember what we're also doing as humans is we're constantly trying to undermine the natural order of things. We do it with our health, right? So back in the day, your shoulder, you would be gone. Now you may not be gone.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Right? And I think this is something that's important to understand is that one of the main things that makes humans humans is that we've challenged the very fundamental order and nature of life and the world. And we fight it under progression. Yeah. But we fight it. So we go, actually, maybe you shouldn't die of an infection.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Right. So the reason I say I'm sad and I'm worried that the experiment is failing is because it was an experiment. People thought that if you put goods and services or if you say that things are going to be manufactured in poor countries, it's going to bring them up. And then that'll free up the developed countries to do different types of jobs and it'll bring them up.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And then they will sell their ideas and it'll bring them up. And this beautiful loop, this beautiful loop, this beautiful loop. And we will all raise, what is that? Rising tides raise all boats. That's what we thought. What we didn't know was...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
some people have boats that have water pumps and they're taking a lot more water and the tides are not rising everything so now that's what I was saying is my worry when my good friend Cesar was kind enough to say you see this was a good episode and I like the fact that there's no solution we just threw a pump out there we're like bye here's your worries niggas bye that's it that's on you
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I actually see a very hopeful future for your story with your son. Of course. That's what I mean. So I go like, oh, you just have a problem or a worry about a potential problem, but I feel like there's many solves for the thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So that's as a friend. And then my friend has said to me, no, no, don't worry. All your worries are correct. And it's going to end. That's what he just did to me. You must never be a doctor, by the way, Sizwe. Actually, he needs to be a doctor. No, no. He would be the person who just walks in and says to you, you're out. Statistically speaking, you're going to die anyway.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So, I mean, I don't even know why you want to do the surgery.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
That's what he would be saying to you. No, you should not be a doctor. Be the shortest episodes of House ever. Just walk in. So, okay. Let's do scissors. So, your concern is you worry that?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I'm not saying continually. Let me be on record of saying that. Well, I'm saying... I think we're in like cycles. And I'm saying now... No, we are in cycles.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Okay, okay. We haven't hit drop bottom yet.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Oh. Do you know what I'm saying? So you're looking at even like micro cancellations. Yes. You're looking at like, yeah, erosion cancellations.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
These days, there isn't really. Sorry, sorry. I feel like I'm mishearing you. Safe haven for people being bullied? From being bullied, yes. Oh, okay. I thought you were saying there was a safe haven for bullying. That's funny. No, really. You're also like a weird thinker. You could be the kind of person who says that. Protect all bullies?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah, you were like, back in my day, bullies could find a place. Dude, you're the kind of person who could say that. Look, bullies do build character. Okay. But I don't think we need this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah. I think as adults, we also don't necessarily have that. It took me... I'm trying to think of when this changed. Maybe somewhere pandemic-ish, somewhere... It took me a long time to realize, if I don't know it, if I don't even acknowledge it, it's not even happening. I know it sounds like a weird thing. People are like, no, but people are saying things about me online.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Oh, I was just talking about like, you're cancelled. It feels like it's finished.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And I'm like, yeah, it's not really happening.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Okay. To channel my very wise younger brother, he would argue that we and the youngest of our generation is experiencing that. He says they're not. He's like you guys, like Bane. He's almost like, you merely adopted social media. I was forged in social media. Like he goes, no, no, no, no. You and your youngest think that. He says, our generation. We're so robust because we were built by that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
He's like, we don't, we actually don't care. He says, we don't really care about the thing. And we don't. He even showed me like aesthetically.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No, but I'm saying he showed me like aesthetically. Go look at like Gen Z and lower. Look at their Instagram, their TikTok. It's not aesthetic like millennials and above. It's not, they're not trying to show you a perfect picture of avocado toast. No, they just want to show you a vibe. They might even show you the crumbs. That's their picture.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And his argument is that we think of it as being something that is infinitely harder to tackle. But he's like, it is only the reality that they have, right? So he goes, I think your situation was worse. Where we entered striving for perfection because we didn't know how this thing works. No, but not even. He argues, he goes, yeah, we get bullied online.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
But he's like, but you guys got bullied physically and there wasn't really stuff you guys could do about it when it was happening physically. And then he goes, I can make friends online. I can look at a video on TikTok about how to be a boxer. But he argues that their reality is different to ours, but it comes with its own pros and cons and they're fine with it. Yeah, I think he's correct.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Oh, yeah. That's how you are on social media. Yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
One thing I will throw into that. Yeah, we'll wrap. We'll wrap. One thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
All right. So one thing I will say to that is I think it's the same. Guys, one bully at my school terrorized three standards, like three grades. One bully. Do you understand what reach that is?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
One, guys, one bully would come to the tuck shop, cafeteria for those in America, and would take anything and everything and do whatever they... So I understand what you're saying, but I go, I feel like we were also that generation. I watched people get terrorized by one bully and a whole school could have done something and didn't do anything. And we're all just like, that's them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You know, you're just like, pray to God they don't come your way. Yeah. And so what I'm arguing is I don't necessarily think that they are softer or like, I just think that because it's so foreign to us, we see it as being more that way, but I don't necessarily think it's... It's the same problems, just a different iteration. Yes. But that's how generations are. Yes, that's what I think.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And then I actually think the mental health thing, I think it is more important to look at our communities, like our real communities versus our social ones. I think we take for granted, forget the bully, forget the social media, forget all of that. We take for granted what a physical touch was. Yes, I got bullied, but at least my bully touched me.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Do you know what I'm saying? At least I felt my bully's skin. We'll continue this. Go catch your flights. Bye-bye.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Okay, I'll throw you another one that you might agree with. And I mean this genuinely. Every kid who bullied me. Made you a better person? No, saw me as a human being. And I saw them as a human being. Because they didn't perpetually bully me. And they were not perpetually bullies. They were kids who played sports, who ate food, who caught the bus.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I'm including myself. So we're going to talk like South Africans.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And then they were the same way like your job doesn't define you, hopefully, in life. They were like, no, I work as a bully. But I'm also still a human being. They laughed. I remember walking into school and the bully would be there and be like, Trevor, you. And I'd be like, ah, bruh, come on. Again? Yeah, and then he'd be like, okay, but tomorrow. That for me, I don't see anyone doing online.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Because I know this sounds like a crazy thing to say, but even though that bully was a bully, because we shared the same space, because we breathed the same air, because we looked into each other's real eyes, I knew who that bully was. I knew their name. I knew where they lived. They were a human being.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
It's funny, you know, you say, yeah, there's something you stumbled on, I feel like, in one part that's really special and that is We've lost that. Even fighting, at least you are connecting with another person. I know it sounds crazy, but even having a back and forth, at some point you will see each other as people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Like their racism or xenophobia? All of that, yeah. Okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah, but I think both ways, actually. And I think that's, I've always said America's biggest struggle for me in its politics is that it is binary. So Americans think and have been taught that it is this or that. But now I realize, and I realize every time I come home to South Africa, I'm like, wow, we have such a complex... A perfect example is the, I'm an ANC bitch.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
The woman on the FlySafe flight. This is a black woman who gets drunk on a flight, starts berating the flight attendants, throws things at other passengers. And now passengers, black and white alike, team up against her to restrain her. But even then, the commentary of it, the... pro-ANC people, they're against her. And then black people at large are against her and white people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And I was like, oh yeah, I don't really see many of those types of things happen in America.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I was just like, okay, we have reached Milele. Exactly. So what I mean is like, when you are told... that there is one of two solutions. You will then think that there's one or two solutions. And so you will be forced to pick between one of two solutions. You know what I mean?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yes, because you've been told. Whereas when you come from a place where they go, no, no, no, no, no. As you said earlier with the ANC, even the ANC was multiple coalitions in one thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah. No, this is not. Actually, you know what's funny? You actually made me worry less.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah. Okay. No, really, because I think to myself... Even in the moment... This is going to sound like a crazy thing, even for me to say to myself, but like... The one upside of revolutions is that they bring people together. Or like one of the upsides, maybe, depending on where the revolution is going. But it is like, you know, the people come together.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You know, you think of like the Berlin Wall coming down. You think of like the Soviet Union collapsing. You think of Cuba. You think... Yeah, it's like... it brings people together. And maybe that's what we're living in. Maybe life is a constant yo-yo of humans being pulled apart and then being pulled back together. And maybe we create things that pull us apart.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Walls at our houses, tinted windows in our cars, things that isolate us. And then something comes along, everything from an earthquake to a fire. And then you need that person that you're blocking out. Yeah, all of a sudden,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
we're now back together and it's it's interesting to think of like us always being forced to come back together whether we like it or not yeah because like literally whether we like it or not whether you like it or not humans are gonna get forced we're gonna be back here together yeah and we don't know what it'll be yeah
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
The grinch. The funny thing is he's not even grinchy. If he was a grinch, it would be better. He's an AI. It's his delivery of it. You know when you watch those movies where the robot just says, straight up, they just go like, humankind needs to be eliminated. Then you're like, excuse me? It appears to me that being human is suboptimal.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah, but I'm asking you, what's a better way to do my garden? The best way is to not have a garden. It's gonna die anyway. It's gonna die anyway. The same way you will die. If I end you, then you do not have to worry about the garden. Yo, yo, yo, Sizwe. Sizwe, I'm looking for a solution. Yes, and I've presented the ultimate solution to you. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Solution is death.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yes, this is why you're a mom and he isn't.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I love that. Thank you, Anizi. Thanks for joining me. Thank you. And thank you, Sizwe, in your absence. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
and um yeah whatever happens happens because when my friends and i do a podcast we try and make it as informal as possible so if you're looking for like the dictionary definition of like a simple podcast you came to the wrong place scroll to the next one in your feed now and enjoy that but if you're looking for like an honest get together of three human beings who love respect and fight with each other then you've come to the right place welcome to what now
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yes, I agree with that. I like how you said this like you studied it in a textbook.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
it most likely did come from a textbook you're so robotic in your thinking yeah no that's what I mean but you're so robotic in your thinking that it really sounds like literally the way you said that there are inner thoughts and there are outer thoughts humans only do inner thoughts inside he's been AI no he's you've been AI the whole time he's been AI You really have. All right.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So why don't we go around? Well, first, I want the high level of what you're worried about for the year, you know, as we go into the future. And by the way, it's not even just for the year. It's rather what you're most concerned about at the beginning of the year that you think may be a thing. Because, you know, like every year has a different feeling.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Give us the two now and then I want to hear Caesar's and then I'll give you mine and then we'll see where we kick it off.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
I love this. Don't say more on it. Don't say more on it. Okay. So the problem, we got the problem. This is all the worry. Yes, the worry. All right. What's your second worry?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Okay, I like this. All right, great. So, Anele's worry is your son is now at an age where he's looking externally for role models. Second thing you're worried about is you're at an age where anything is internal. Yeah, is something. Is something, okay. He's no longer worried about World War III, phew, but worried about the world that his children will live in because now there'll be a world.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So now you've got different problems. Okay, cool. The thing I'm worried about, maybe it touches a little bit on what you're saying, but I worry that the global experiment has failed or is failing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So... I think for a long time, we were seduced by this idea that the whole world could come together as one. And I think a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. So join the 83% of the Fortune 500 that trust Atlassian to help transform their enterprise. Learn how to unleash the potential of your team This episode is brought to you by Brooklinen. As the seasons shift and we spend more time at home, how are you making your better space that works for everything?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
We've always traded. Don't get me wrong. We've always traded. But a lot of it was sold through the lens of trade. So like the Euro Union, you know, it's like, ah, and then BRICS, Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. It's like, ah, these blocks that have all come together. And so Europe at some point was like, we don't have a border.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
You know, if you are European, you can go everywhere in Europe. Yeah, yeah. I think that that is starting to fail because, yeah, I don't think we thought far ahead enough or I don't know if we, you know, crossed all the T's and dots because we also never did it. Did you always believe in it? I was just told that I was too young to like believe or not believe.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
Yeah, but that's what I'm, you're just now talking about my worry.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
And you just said you don't have to worry.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
No. because listen it's not about me you just said to me let me just tell you what you just didn't right now this is what Cesar did I was on a plane and I said I'm a little bit worried that this plane feels like it's gonna go down and Cesar said well if you look statistically most planes crash around this age so you're right but you don't have to worry
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
All right. So which one do we start with? Which worry do we want to handle? I actually would love to start with your son. I like it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So that one can give you what works. So before I say anything on it, take me through a little bit about how you feel as a mom of a son, 10 years old. I understand you saying you worry that he's now going to get external influences. But why is that a worry and not necessarily a joy?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Wringing in the New Year [VIDEO]
So tell us the story about him meeting this kid. Where did he meet the kid? And how did you know the kid was bad? And why do you think Alake was unable to discern between the good and the bad of the kid?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
What is it about the bowling versus bowling alone that the data told you, and what were people reporting that you thought was important to get into?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
I cannot tell you how excited I am to have you on the podcast. And I think everyone will be because Robert Putnam is one of those names that is surprisingly unknown, but then surprisingly very well known depending on who you ask. So if you ask a lot of people in the streets, if you said, do you know Robert Putnam? They would probably maybe say no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
So there's one thing I want us to get to in a way. Maybe let's start with this part. The why. Why does it change anything? So what I love about this story is, you know, oftentimes when we're talking about an issue in society, as you say, because we don't have all of the data and because we have confirmation bias, we'll pick the thing that we think is the cause and we'll stick with it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
So we go, oh, society is declining because of social media. Oh, society is declining because of politics. Oh, society is declining because... But you had a natural experiment that very few social scientists will ever have. Help us understand the why in that. I would love to know why your government will work better if your community has more clubs in it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
I don't think that correlation is easy for everyone to see.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
But if the person in the street that you asked was somebody like Barack Obama,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
Then he'd be like, yeah, I know Robert and I know him well. And you'd be like, wow.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Join or Die with Robert Putnam [VIDEO]
So big differences. So Bob, maybe help us understand the idea of bowling alone, because I think it is important to help people understand that first of all, it is an example, right? And I think what you liked about it is sort of why it connects with me is that it's a simple example to understand, right? Because everyone can go bowling.
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But it's the alone that really became the signifier that showed what was going wrong in America and in many other parts of the world where people are experiencing this. So help us understand.
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Hey, that's when you know somebody. So actually, let's talk about that because it, although it seems crazy, will tie into everything that we're going to talk about today. Loneliness, community,
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Wow. So we've got to put polls at the bowling booth. When you put your fingers in, you should get the little die, and then you vote straight off. That's what we should be doing.
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Right. If we only meet at a political rally, our conversations will only be political and then we'll forget what connects us. One other thing I wanted to throw in maybe here.
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I know your work is all about data, so I don't know if you have the data on this, but how much do you think companies and jobs and capitalism and the way it's been employed in America over the past 50, 60 years has affected people's ability to do that? Because when you're talking about let's go bowling together, I just think of personally, friends of mine, and how we always want to do things.
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But more often than not, people will say, I would love to, but I work late that day. Yeah, I wish I could, but I've got to finish this thing for work. Yeah, I want to, but I, you know, the work and the, and then it's like my kid and I got to see the kid because I don't have childcare and I've got to, and I wonder because you are a man who, as you say, you've lived through time.
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You know, I would love to know if there's any data or any experience that you've had that has shown you that our ability to engage in a league with other people is directly affected by how much time our work gives us off to do that.
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And fundamentally, funny enough, how all of it is integral in making sure that a democracy actually works, which I think is very important in America right now, because people are wondering if this democracy can and will work in the next few decades. And we're experiencing this around the world. But tell us a little bit about that.
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No, I mean, yeah, I'm just, I see every binging and every TV show, I see it very differently now.
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We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.
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How does Barack Obama, President of the United States, come to know you as Bob? How does this journey begin?
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You can't sell ads in person. That's another problem. No, it's true, though. You can't. You can't monetize people's connections when they aren't digital. And so now you're limiting your revenue. You know, this seems like a similar problem that exists in many different industries and fields, right? In that, like, let's say food. Mm-hmm. There's nothing wrong with drinking a glass of Coke.
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There really isn't. There's nothing wrong with having a burger from McDonald's or whatever. There really isn't. However... Those products are oftentimes made to make you crave them and want them way more than you naturally would. And you know this because you as a person, just think about you as a person, you do not say to yourself, I should do that again. You don't.
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You go like, I can't believe I did that again. I had too much of it. But then you want more of it. And then you want more of it. And then you want more of it. And we're supposed to be having, quote unquote, a balanced diet. So it's like, have your vegetables, have the salad, have the stew, have the this, have the that. And then have your snacks and you'll be fine.
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But it feels like we're in like an arms race against companies who go, we're not going to give you a break. If you have a choice of 10 meals, we want you to pick the snacks 10 times. And we're going to design it in such a way that you're going to pick the snacks 10 times. But then on the outside, they'll say, no, no, no, no, no. We want you to eat healthy.
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And you're like, yes, but you made your product so that I can't. Do you get what I'm saying? And I think the same thing goes for like what you're saying about social capital is... They'll say it, we want to connect people, but they don't, you know how you know they don't want you to stop using the product? The simplest answer is infinite scroll.
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Right? If social media companies wanted us to not endlessly use their product, because they'll even have a label that's like, hey, remember to take a break now and then. Yo, you can just make me take a break.
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You could literally, they could literally just go like TikTok, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.
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This is your limit for the day. And you know what? I almost think that people would actually like the product more because people would go, oh yeah, I finished my TikTok for today. I'm done.
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But then do you meet in person to what Bob was saying?
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They've taken different neighborhoods. This is data. This is not like an opinion. This is data that's been done.
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That's what I do for a living. No, I mean, I'm just clarifying for people. I love that, yeah.
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Let's fast forward to that point. We are now living in a country and the world is living in the shadow of this country that is experiencing levels of polarization and levels of vitriol that most people say they've never experienced.
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And one of the key tenets of this moment is that people do not trust the government. They don't believe in the government. They don't believe that anything can get done. They don't believe anything will get done. And a lot of people who are being elected into government, ironically, by the way, I always think that's ironic.
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is that those people are being elected into government because they say government shouldn't be a thing and we should just dismantle it all. And fundamentally, they're saying like, hey, everyone, you just take care of yourself. Why does the government do your education? You do your education. And why does the government do your healthcare? You do your healthcare. You do your own research.
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You do your own thing. So actually, help us understand, how do we go from a world where People spend less time. And it is crucial to remind everyone, bowling is one of the things. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be a book club. It could be a running group. It could be a bike club. It could be anything.
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How does America go from having fewer clubs to creating the movement that leads to Donald Trump?
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Anything that brought people together from different walks of life to connect across different boundaries.
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Wait, no way. Are you being serious?
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Wait, wait, wait. And what did they use? I don't understand. What did they use from your book to help Trump get elected? What did they identify?
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You know why it makes complete sense is because I think of it through a few lenses. You and I have talked about this a bunch. I go, one of the things I'm saddest about in America and I see around the world is the decline of churches
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Because I go, I understand that religion has many issues that it's come with, whether it's pastors, whether it's, you know, the way they treat certain people, whatever it might be, right? But man, you take for granted what that building did. There are very few places in our societies where you can come
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And regardless of the language you speak, the color of your skin, your socioeconomic background, your location, whatever it is, you are allowed to join and identify as being part of that group. And I've always thought that's maybe the most important thing is the fact that you can become a part of it. Do you get what I'm saying? That's like really, really important to me.
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And I think about it through that lens. I go like, wow, man, I understand that people go like, oh, yeah, religion, I don't care about it. And I'm like, yes, but... You're also losing the church. And the church was the place where you saw people to tell them you were sick. The church was the place where you got a little help. The church was the place where you found out about a new job listing.
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People learn music. Think about how all the greatest singers of the last whatever many decades have all come from church. So the training, the connections, the understanding that it came from. And it's funny that you say that. When we were still on The Daily Show, I remember the thing I used to talk to everyone about was how Jordan Klepper would say this.
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I'd say to him, he'd go to all these Trump rallies. And I said, Jordan, what do you notice when you're at the Trump rallies? What do you notice that we don't from far? And he said something really fascinating to me once. He said, a lot of people are there for the vibes. He said, a lot of people are there for the vibes.
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And you think about it, Donald Trump created many clubs where clubs didn't exist. He said, I'm coming to your town. I'm going to sell you hats that you can all wear. We're going to sell you little scarves that you can all wear. And you're going to come into a room. And then you know what? We're all going to hang out and chant this.
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You know when I knew that Trump, by the way, Bob, had reached the pinnacle of understanding this is when he was at a political rally, right? People are there ostensibly to hear about your plan for the future of the country and how you plan to run the economy. And Trump was just like, let's just dance. Do you remember that moment?
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Yeah, sure. I do. This was one of... I remember watching that moment going, this man is either... He's completely lost it. Or he is a savant who's completely understood it. And now I think he's the latter.
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Yeah. Donald Trump realized in that moment... He's like, man, you guys don't, you're not here because of like what I'm going to do with the economy or not do with it. You just came here to hang out and we're in a club and everyone in that club says the same thing. We've been forgotten. So there's a man who grew up in a town where the factory was shut down and that was a piece of his club.
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So he's forgotten. There's somebody else who grew up in another city. And because that city has lost its population, the church died and now they don't have a church. So they've been forgotten. Someone's kids left to go to a big city. So now they don't have, they've been forgotten. And it's just a bunch of forgotten people who are now seen.
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They come together and you go, when you go home, watch the video. I promise you, it is one of the most amazing things. Trump literally just goes like, yo, just play my playlist. He shouted to some person who rolls with him. And they just play all of his favorite. And I'm talking everything from YMCA to Ave Maria. Like, it's the most eclectic mix of music. And he just dances.
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Because the Ku Klux Klan is definitely a club.
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Well, but I'm actually going to throw this, before we move on, I'm going to throw something out here, maybe controversial. I would argue the reason the Democrats didn't do as well in this election is because they were bonding, they weren't bridging. Yes. So if I look at Barack, I look at Barack Obama's- They were bonding and they thought they were bridging.
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But if I look at Barack Obama's campaign, right? Barack Obama was going, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I don't care if you're in Kentucky. Let's connect. Let's connect. Do you have this issue? I have this issue. This is something I grew up with. You grew up. My grandmother looks like you. My mother looks like you. My father looked like that. My this. I grew up in this world. He was bridging.
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And he was like, yes, we can. Like it was bridging, bridging, bridging, bridging, bridging. Absolutely. We, we, we, we. It's got to be. Yes. Right?
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And so as much as it's easy for everyone to be like Donald Trump and we're all guilty of that. But I think of like the Democrats in this election, a lot of it was bonding stuff as well. It was very much like, you know, like, oh, you know, white men are this and the rich have done that. And it became bonding.
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bonding that way as opposed to the coalition of saying like Bernie even did well by the way when he was running he did a lot of bridging like you know hey let's all join we're all struggling let's all come together as struggling people we all deserve healthcare you all doesn't matter where you're from bridge bridge bridge and I think in this election in particular there was a lot of
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bonding from both parties. And as crazy as this may sound to a lot of people, I think Donald Trump engaged in a little more bridging than people will give him credit for, which I think is why he connected more than people thought he would in some spaces. I want to know what Bob thinks of that.
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No, that's exactly why we invited you on here. You're an expert.
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I almost want to know what you think the future will be because I remember speaking, I forget who this person was. It was such a wonderful conversation we had in one of my first times going to London. And I was talking to them about living in America and I was talking to them about coming from South Africa and everything.
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And this woman said to me, she said, oh, darling, she said, I can't wait for South Africa and America to get over race because then they'll realize that everything's all about class, baby. It's all about class. And it really was an interesting idea, which has stuck with me because I go like, yeah,
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No, but what I liked about it was this, is she forced me to hone in on something that I think people do take for granted. Oftentimes when we talk about issues that are pertaining to black people, you'd be like, oh, black people have... That has just become an easy identifier for a class issue, right? And that's why people like Dr. Martin Luther King... MLK was like, yo... I'm fighting for class.
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A lot of his stuff was class-related.
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Yeah, he was fighting for class. And black people are disproportionately affected by it. But that's why, like, even the Black Panther Party, they found a coalition between white people who are proudly racist and black people who are militantly fighting against racism. But they were like, you know. Union jobs. Yeah, the guy was like, hey, man.
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We should all come together because we're all being affected by this. And in all of these cases, by the way, they formed clubs. The Black Panthers formed a mini club that wasn't the Black Panthers that involved all of these poor people. Dr. Martin Luther King, he formed multiple clubs and chapters and all of these organizations.
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And it's interesting to see what you're saying is like these clubs came together. around the issue of class. And so now let me ask you this then. So do you think, say the people who are in the bottom two thirds, are they more likely to be negatively affected by not having a social club?
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Oh, yeah, that's great, because that's what Christiana was asking for. What were you going to ask?
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Okay, great. So the what now, Bob Putnam?
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Before you move on, a perfect example of that for me was Pokemon Go. So I'm assuming neither of you played it, but I was a huge Pokemon Go fan. Huge, huge, huge. I think this was the best execution of a video game in the modern age because it was a video game that everyone played. It was on your phones, right? Yeah. And the goal was to catch Pokemon. You don't need to know what any of this is.
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He's able to connect groups that don't necessarily think they have anything that connects them. But I feel like that's the perfect jumping off point to get into your work. And I won't say single-handedly because you always give credit to your team. And I think that's important. But you have been at the forefront of helping us understand social isolation and why this can very well be
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Just think of a game where you're trying to catch little creatures. But what they did that was amazing was you had to catch the creatures in the real world. So they used your camera on your phone and you would literally have to run out into the streets to catch these digital creatures. And so at first it was just like, oh, this is silly and this is fun.
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But I will never forget the joy I experienced when one night I was in New York and I was running with a group of people in Central Park. Strangers at 11.30 p.m. because someone had tweeted and told us that there was a Snorlax, which is one of the creatures. There was a Snorlax in Central Park.
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And Bob and Christiana, when I tell you, there were, if I was just to estimate, there were like maybe 500 people from like little kids who had dragged their parents out of the house all the way through to like adults who were playing the game running. And I remember at one point, one of the kids turned, looked at me. Well, because we're all running because there's a time limit.
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You don't know how long the creature will be there for. So we're all running through Central Park together. And one of the kids turns, looks at me. This kid's like maybe like 14, 15. And he looks at me and he's like, He's like, Trevor Noah? He's like, you played Pokemon Go? And he's like, now I know I'm in the right place.
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But what I loved about it was, to what you're saying, it was the perfect culmination. It wasn't the either or. We were all playing a digital game. It was the alloy. You could play the game at home, and we were playing it at home, but you could not help but bump into other people who were playing the game as well in the real world. And it was such a beautiful, because once the Snorlax was gone,
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All everyone could do now is talk. Where are you from? Hey, where do you live? What's the best one you've caught? And this was like, the game won awards, by the way, even for getting people fit and running and moving. But I love that. So when you say the going young and figuring out the hybrid, I think there are ways to do it. Because some people would be like, oh, I don't know if you can.
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I think we actually have seen one of the ways, and I know because I played it. But yes, okay. So what's rule number two? Rule number two is go local.
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the reason society crumbles, society as we know it. Everyone talks about we're more polarized than ever. People say like, oh, you know, and I don't get along with the other parents at school. And people say like, I can't talk to my family because of politics. And I don't even know my neighbor's names.
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No, no, I don't think you have to be sorry. I think it's given us homework. So play Pokemon Go with people in your local neighborhood and help them catch the Pokemon that they caught. That's essentially because you're helping each other.
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And at the same time, everyone says, I don't even know if this election will be the last one because democracy could be dead. Well, today we're gonna be speaking to the man who really has worked on helping us understand the data behind the feeling.
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Bob, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you, Bob. You know, it's such a simple idea. And unfortunately, sometimes the best ideas are so simple that people don't want them.
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It's the same way like eating healthy. It's a simple idea. Eat the vegetables and don't eat things that come in packets.
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Your body changes. And people are like, yeah, yeah, but I need something more complicated than that. But yeah, I want to say thank you very much. Thank you for doing the work. Thank you for taking the time with us. You know, we started at Robert. We end at Bob. Thank you very much. It was wonderful getting to know you. And I hope you do get to see some of this in your lifetime.
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So don't write it off yet. You keep talking about you're going to be gone. Maybe some of it will change. We'll see. We'll do our best. Thank you, Christiana.
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And thank you, Trevor. Thank you so much, Bob. Bye. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening.
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Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now.
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And you've written a few books about this, you know, Bowling Alone was obviously, I mean, you know, your seminal work, which was then, it went on like an interesting journey. And we'll talk about some of it, you know, the praise, the criticism. Right. And then you talked about like making democracies work, etc. But let's start with the fundamental problem at the bottom of it. Sure.
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Why do you think it's such a big deal that people are or say they're lonely? What is the value of minimizing social isolation?
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When you're talking about social connectedness, just to clarify this for people, what do you mean? Because there are people who will say, but Robert, I've got followers on Instagram, and I talk to people on my Facebook, and I see people at school. And what do you mean?
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So I will say, funny enough, I hear you both saying the same thing, genuinely. So, you know, if I listen to what you're saying, Robert, you're saying that our life expectancy is directly tied to to how many groups we are a part of. right?
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And everything I'm hearing you say, funny enough, is, and I understand the delineation of like the we, but I mean, we use the we in many different ways, but I hear you saying the same thing. You're going, black women's life expectancy is holding and going up in America because partly they are in these tight-knit groups.
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And so maybe that's sort of what I would like us to figure out is what are some groups holding onto that other groups are letting go of? Because I agree with you. I think even if I look at my life, you know, Robert, I grew up in South Africa. I know your life. I read your life story. Damn. I know your life. And Christiana grew up in London, right? But we have similarities.
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And the main thing for me was, till this day even, black women... almost never found themselves without a community and they worked towards it. So my grandmother was part of a thing called a society where all the grandmothers would come together and they would put their money into a collection and one member would get money every single month. And then there was like a funeral society as well.
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And that was just a group of people who come together to talk about funerals. And then there was another church society and that it's self-explanatory. And so maybe that's what I want to try to get to. Because I actually hear you both saying the same thing. And correct me if I'm wrong. I think the we you're talking about is like all of us, every single human being in a society.
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And Christiana, what you're saying is like, you know, black women don't seem to have the same issue. So maybe let's dig into that. You did a lot of this work in Italy, right? A lot of your seminal work came from Italy. Originally, yes.
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Yes, and a lot of the time, you know, when I'm having conversations about what happens in America, I'll say to people, I know America is the be-all and end-all for many people, but I think a lot of America's issues and ideas can be solved or have been solved in other countries.
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You go to Italy and really you're on this journey of trying to understand why democracies work better or worse, or even to get more granular. You're trying to understand why some people trust government more, why some people trust institutions more, and why some governments and institutions are working better for the people that they're looking after. And-
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Help me understand how Italy ties the story together for you. What do you learn in Italy?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay, so here's the difference between us. If you brought Simon Sinek into your company, and you said, Simon, what is going wrong with this company? Then Simon Sinek would try and help you to make the company better. If you brought Trevor Noah into your company and said, what's happening? There's a chance that I would say, you need to shut this place down. Just shut it all down.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
How do they stage a coup is what you're asking?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Plus, Lioness with Zoe Saldana and Nicole Kidman, and Tulsa King, starring Sylvester Stallone. From Showtime comes The Agency, a spy thriller starring Michael Fassbender and Richard Gere. Get the Paramount Plus with Showtime plan and start streaming today. This episode is brought to you by the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So what I mean is like, okay, for me, when I hear gossip, I go, gossip is... A story about something or someone from my perspective that is salacious in some way, shape or form. But it isn't necessarily the same as history because history is a thing that happened. And look, everyone's going to be biased, but I always feel like telling a story involves like a little... I think it's two things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay, so... The main one is trying to be impartial. You don't gossip about the history of your people. You just tell the story of it, right? That's what I think of with like the griots.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And then the second one for me, and this is a big one, is I don't think people ever need to whisper about histories. Oh, some people should.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's what I always think like a gossip for me is, this is my personal, is like if you ever need to like look at, before you say the thing. I think that's more gossip than history. Like, I never need to say to you, like, if you go like, Christiana, tell me about your family. And then I go like, well, my mom... So my mom started working when she was... That to me is not gossip.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But that's because there's an immediate danger as opposed to like a shaming that's going to come.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So venting. So the most important thing for you is releasing the exhaust gases. That's essentially what you're saying.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It doesn't matter where you're doing it. I mean, I think you have to have. So you can vent about work at home and you can vent about home at work.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
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What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That sounds like a warning to me versus gossip.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
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What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The difference though is like with gossip versus, like let's say an office.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I want to know the jobs you had in an office. Unsuccessfully, I worked as like, what do you call them? Clerks sometimes where the person's job is to like get the papers.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, like that. I've done that. I worked in an office because I was a meter reader. You know, like reading electricity and water meters. Then you'd be in the office with the people. Can I read your meter, please? That type of thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Well, what is the difference? And then The Daily Show was an office for years. So you're saying it's funny we talk about offices. I think most people, if I was to bet, most people listening to this podcast work in an office. Most people in the developed world work in an office. It's like the thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We're going to continue this conversation right after this. It also comes with plenty of other perks too, like access to Sapphire's airport lounge network. You can relax and refresh with locally inspired menus, a curated selection of drinks, and more before getting on your flight. Make the most out of your next trip. Learn more at chase.com slash sapphire reserve.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Atlassian. Atlassian team collaboration software like Jira, Confluence, and Loom help power collaboration for enterprise companies around the globe. With products that enable AI-powered teamwork, doing the impossible just became possible.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So join the 83% of the Fortune 500 that trust Atlassian to help transform their enterprise. Learn how to unleash the potential of your team at Atlassian.com. After this short break. You know, when I'm listening to this, I can't help but wonder if we always talk about companies. as if they're these isolated spaces.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You should fire yourself, and you people should ask yourself why you work here, and everyone should go home. That might be my solution. I mean... That's a contribution.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But it feels like you live in a world where you're constantly exposed to the petri dishes of society. Because what is a company if not a manufactured community? It's a collection of people. It's the modern tribe. There you go.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And so these are the people you... Because of, let's say, your job, maybe you chose, but you sort of didn't choose them because you weren't the person hiring all of them and you weren't the person. So in many ways, it is like a tribe. It is like a community. These people have happened into your life and now you have to choose how to treat them and how not to treat them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So the thing that pops into my mind as I'm thinking about this is, is it harder for us to be better or to treat people or to give them the benefit of the doubt in a corporate setting? Or is this just... a magnifying glass that's put on us and our ability outside of the corporate setting. Like, where have you found it easier to apply these principles?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because everything you're saying to me sounds like things we should be doing in real life, right? So we should go, I don't like that person's music. I don't like how they looked in some pictures. I don't like the way they speak. As opposed to saying, that person's an asshole. And it's like, well, how do you know they're an asshole? I can tell. You're like, okay, but what of them?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And we've seen this happen online. You can just like build, all of a sudden there's like a movement. Mm-hmm. And everyone's just like, we hate them. And you're like, but why is this? An example for me was like Anne Hathaway. Do you remember there was a time when Anne Hathaway was just hated?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And she'd done nothing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I'm not like chronically online. So I pop in and I'll miss things. And I'm like, what did she do? And then I'll go down a rabbit hole. I'm like, I can't find it. And then she'd like danced at a film festival or something or an after party. And then people are like, she's amazing. Yeah. I was like, what has happened in her life or in people's lives that this shifted?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, but what does that mean? I'll be honest. I'm always confused about that because I go – For me, a company's values are to make money.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
No, no. And I mean this, and I'm not like saying it in an attacking way. I go, I'm always thrown when a company says like our values, because I go, these are your values. Yeah. But if losing money comes into the equation, you will adapt your values. So then they aren't values to me. That's what I always think of. So I go like, can a company actually have values beyond making money?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's a high hit rate.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Is Milton Friedman still alive? No. Oh, okay. That's why you can say it like that. Otherwise, that would be like a crazy move if you were just like, I hate you, Milton Friedman. And Milton Friedman's like, I hate his work. Simon Sinek. Okay, you hate his work.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So people will say we want democracy. Like the idea of democracy is very popular because it's been attached to things like fairness and equality, et cetera. But I would argue most people would be fine living in a dictatorship or under monarchy... if their lives were good.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, like it's like people don't actually care really. The problem is succession. Yeah, that's actually the thing, you know? And so what you're saying now is, I think of how many people, let's say in America, we start with the US. One of the more interesting things I saw was on AOC's Instagram page, right? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She asked people after the election,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
in and around helping people connect. But oftentimes people will think of you as the guy who helps people connect in like an official setting, you know, like a company and an institution and whatever. But is there anything you can help people? Like literally what Christiana said, how do siblings become closer or how do they stay friends or how do they even make a friend?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
hey, I noticed that Trump won the election, but he lost on the down ballots in many places. And now a lot of people are saying this is a conspiracy. They're saying, how could Trump have won the election? But the people in these certain counties and whatever, or states, they voted Democrat, but then Trump won. What's what's going on here?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And so she said, just for me, can you all tell me if you voted for me and Trump? I want to know if that's possible. And her, I don't know what the number was, but it looked like she was flooded with replies. And then she started posting them on her page. And it was amazing to see how many people said, I voted for you and Trump.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because while you two don't see eye to eye, you are both doing the same thing in my eyes, which is you're dismantling the system that has put me in this position. AOC is going, break it all apart. Trump is saying, break it all apart. AOC is saying, these people are screwing you over. Trump is saying, these people are screwing you over. And then you see it with leaders as well. They're killing it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They're doing well. They're having fun. And then on the ground, you're not having a good time. And then it leads us to a lot of what we have now.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But how do they respond? Because you actually hang out with CEOs. How do they respond? Well, the ones who agree with me hang out with me.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because people assume you'll be friends with your siblings. Right, right, right.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This episode, we're talking with Simon Sinek about how to find meaning and satisfaction in the work that you do. And let's be honest, a big part of that is making sure you end up in the right role at the right place. In other words, it's all about hiring, recruiting, and finding the perfect match. That's what's inspired this next special part of today's episode.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Next big opportunity brought to you by ZipRecruiter.com. Let me give you one example of a job opportunity up right now on ZipRecruiter. A cake maker in Pacifica, California. Yeah, sounds like a pretty straightforward job. But when you think about who the perfect candidate would be, you realize how important the recruiting process actually is.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
If you're hiring for this job, you need someone with the experience needed to fill all different kinds of orders. People have some pretty weird ideas for cakes out there, and they've got to fulfill them. So you need someone who can also work independently. under deadlines. And the job isn't just going in the back room and making cakes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You have to work with customers to come up with the perfect cake for their special occasion. That's a lot of pressure. If you're applying for this job, you want to make sure the team you're joining works well together and communicates. You want to make sure this business has a good reputation and good benefits.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Maybe you're looking for experience inside a small business because you may want to start one of your own someday. ZipRecruiter connects all those dots with tools like ZipIntro, where you can go from posting your job to candidate interviews in just one day. Of course, it's just not cakes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
One employer needed to hire front desk salespeople for her Pilates studio, so she used ZipRecruiter's Zip Intro tool to find and schedule back-to-back video screening calls with candidates. She'd only set out to hire two people, but she had so many great candidates that she ended up hiring four people in one week. Whatever role you're looking to fill, ZipRecruiter can help.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
With smart matching technology and handy tools like ZipIntro, you'll find a potential hire in no time. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it now for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Trevor. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash T-R-E-V-O-R. See for yourself. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Trevor.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This has been Next Big Opportunity, brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Now, back to our conversation with Simon Sinek. There's a really beautiful story I read. There was an explorer. I don't know. I'm very bad with years, but I remember the stories. There was an explorer in England who went and bumped into an undiscovered tribe. They hadn't made contact with the English tribe.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And this guy befriended them and they welcomed him in. All things were good. And then he like sort of learned to communicate with them. And it was this beautiful little journey where he learned their way of life and had a wonderful time. And they were really an altruistic, you know, community. And they had different laws, by the way. Sort of murder was legal.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
in some ways you could just kill somebody and then the tribe was just like all right well you did it and we keep it moving we don't like judge you we don't but he was like surprisingly everyone didn't kill each other so they were definitely different right after spending you know months or even years with them he goes back to England and he says to like the chief of the tribe and like somebody else he's like hey you should come with me to England and they travel back to England
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they like spending time with him and his family. You know, you can imagine this life. Now you've gone from like the jungle to, you know, London.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah. And he says to them, he says, so what do you think? And he says like, he thought these guys are going to be mesmerized because there's technology and like there's, you know, carriages and there's all kinds of stuff. He's like, so what do you think? And he says, they were not impressed at all. The only thing that impressed them was the butchery.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They were literally, they were like, that's the only thing that made them happy. They're like, wow, you could just go get meat anytime you want. That's pretty cool. Everything else they didn't care about. And it culminated in a question that they asked him one day. After a week or so of staying together, he came home. And one of the tribe's people asked him, said, hey, where do you go every day?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The guy said, what? And he said, every day you leave this house, You're gone. We're here with, like, your family. And then you come back. Where do you go every day? And he's like, oh, I go to work. And they're like, ah. They're like, well, why don't you take your family with you? And he's like, oh, yeah, they don't allow that at my work. That's not how we do things here. And they go, oh, okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And they're like, well, do you like your work more than your family? And he's like, no, no, no, I love my family the most. And they said, well, then why don't you quit your work and just stay with your family? And he said, no, I have to work for my family so that we can live.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And then they said, well, this system doesn't make sense because if you're working to be with your family, but you have to leave your family to go to work, then you're doing the wrong thing in the wrong way. And then he said, well, how do you do it? I have to have the house and I have to... And they said, in our community, when somebody needs a house, we all come together, we build them a house.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It takes us about a month. There's now a house. And then we go back to living our lives with our families. And if somebody needs something else, we get together, we do that for them, and then we go back. And he says it was the first time... That he was ever confronted with the notion that the way we live isn't normal. Like the office, the work, the family, the thing. And then they went back.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
By the way, he was like, do you guys want to? They're like, oh, no, no, no, no. We're very happy to leave. By the way, give us some meat. That was really cool. And then they went back home and they lived their lives.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So we were the only... No, okay, that actually makes a lot of sense.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Actually, that makes a lot of sense.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You need to make them their only connection to each other.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So I'll throw one thing in separately, actually, because I don't consult with companies in that way. But I do think, for me at least, personally, When we talk about purpose, I sometimes think about it through the lens of, funny enough, pyramids.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Do your kids already have the American accent?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You know, when I went to Peru and you go to Machu Picchu and you're looking at the pyramids, the immediate assumption that Western anthropologists had when they came was, oh, they did this using slavery. They were like, oh, yeah, you guys had slaves and that's how you built the thing. And historians who are from Peru go, no, no, no. You assume that because that's how you built your empires.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
You only know how to build using slavery. They go, these people had purpose. And their purpose was they woke up every day. They said, we're building a temple to the gods. And no one was like forcing anyone. They were like, yo, yo, temple time, temple time, baby. And everyone got together and they're like, why do we push these rocks? For the gods.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And now someone might be like, ah, they were being manipulated. Who told them about the gods? Okay, we can have that conversation forever. But I do think there's a different thrust that people experience where like, you feel like you are doing something or moving towards something. And while it doesn't replace your community for me, it's, It adds to my community. Do you know what I'm saying?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Like even working with you, like at The Daily Show, working with people, there's like a vibe of like where I'm like, yeah, we're trying to do something. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we do. But it's like we're trying to move in the same direction. And that for me, if you do it right, I think it's something beautiful. But to your point, I think a lot of companies scam people on that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
That's why I was asking about the values thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I agree with you. But I'm saying, what are you doing at work? That's maybe my thing. Because I agree with you. I go to work, I come back, yes. But then there's also a third option, which is, which work do I go to?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now? after this. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom Rack. Just in and so good. Thousands of new winter deals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Save up to 60% on Sam Edelman, Sorel, Free People, Colhan, and more cold weather finds. Great brands. Great prices. That's why you rack. This episode is brought to you by SurveyMonkey.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The world is always changing and totally unpredictable, which is fun unless you're trying to run a business. So if you want to build products people actually love, keep your customers happy, and stop your team from setting their status to emotionally unavailable, well, you've got to understand what people are really thinking. And to do that, you need to dare to ask the questions that really matter.
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Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Luckily, SurveyMonkey makes it super easy to ask the right questions that'll drive your business forward. In fact, SurveyMonkey answers 20 million questions every single day for over 300,000 organizations around the globe. Get answers to your questions. Go to surveymonkey.com slash dare.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
how do we better find not necessarily the purpose and not always the meaning, but sort of that why, but notice that it's always shifting. Do you know what I mean? So I understand like you're talking to a company and you're saying to them, look, you are a collection of people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And so you have to ask yourself what you would like this collection of people to be moving towards or how you would like them to even be with one another, right? That's what I assume you're doing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah. But there are also people, right? And so I wonder whether looking at your own life or looking at all of the learnings that you've come across, is there a way – that we can all, doesn't matter where we are in our world, is there a way that we can always hone in on the sort of quote unquote why that shifts?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because to your point, I think it's great that a mother goes, I don't know about my job. And I think we should be living in a world where you are able to do that because the same people who will complain about women like, you know, having kids and blah, are the same people who often complain about birth rates declining. I always find that, you know, ironic.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They'll be like, the birth rates, look at the birth rates. And I'm like, but who do you think gives birth? And why do you think that they're not having as much birth time? You know? Yeah, it's because... No, really, I do believe that. The cost is so great. Yeah, I would love to know what you think we could do.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Simon.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I've only been having fun.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This is my thinking music, everyone. When I think properly. It would probably be the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So I've actually thought a lot about this. So I'm also cheating a little bit, everyone, because I do think about this all the time. The reason it was that for me was because, firstly, I had no boss. This is very important to me in life, right? I had no boss. Secondly, the thing had a natural conclusion. Right? It does not go infinitely. Right? I think everything should end.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I'm a big fan of endings. It's wonderful in life. Third is I could bring on whoever I wanted. And it was a wide range of people, by the way. Some people were writers. Some people were not. Some people were comedians. Some people were not. Okay?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
No, no, no. But it makes a big difference. It's like because... At The Daily Show, for instance, I was working for somebody. And the somebody I'm working for is the network. So you're always fighting this balance between what do you think is important to do or create? And what do these people want? Because you can do what you think is important.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And if the ratings are terrible, at some point they go, it's time for you to leave, right? So now you, and to be honest with you, I think that's one of the biggest problems with television and art right now in the world, right? If you look at the MGM logo, It's Trayvon, our friend who was on one of the podcasts. He pointed this out to me even.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
It's like in Latin, we know when that lion roars before the movie. In Latin it says there, art for the sake of art. And I don't think we do that anymore. I don't think we, like, people don't make movies because they think making a movie is a beautiful thing for people to experience. People don't tell stories because it's like, it just makes you feel good as a person. No.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The holidays are almost here. And who doesn't love getting a little back this season? I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on presents I buy for my loved ones with my Apple Card without paying a single fee. It's simple and convenient because it's in the wallet app on my iPhone so it's always with me.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay, how much will it get? Will there be a sequel? Can we get more money? Is there franchising? For you, the Correspondence Dinner was pure. In as many ways as it could be, yes, it was. Do you get what I'm saying?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And so that's the thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Childhood memory. Damn, this is an interesting one. Let me think. Because there's many. How old? Give me an age and I'll tell you. I don't care. No, but when does childhood end?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, so okay. When I think of young, young, one of my favorite memories was playing on the roundabout at a park near my house.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay, yeah, go on. And we were all teaming up. I got a bunch of people together to see how fast we could make this thing spin. Mm-hmm. But like it was a monumental effort. Do you know what I mean? Because everyone had to be at the right place, swinging the thing at the right time to get it. Our goal was to make it fly.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We thought if we spin it hard enough, it's going to take off. But that was one of my, when I think back, I go like, wow, what a day. What a day.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Well, I think for me, it's many of the things that I was saying with the White House correspondence dinner, right? It's collaboration. I chose the people I was doing it with. We didn't pick the random kids who in you had no coordination because the thing's going to smack you in the hands, right? So we got the strongest, fastest, smartest.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
like you know most affable we put the people together and we were like this works so it wasn't like if you were the small kid then your job might have been to be more on the inside if you were the big kid your job was to push but we put people together and it matched in many ways right and the most important thing funny enough Simon Sinek the most important thing was that we were having fun.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I mean this genuinely. We had a purpose, but man, we were having fun.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
The outcome is a bonus. I always say this. The outcome is a bonus. But now let me ask you this, because I love this for me. No, no, I appreciate it. So the last thing I'll ask you before we go is this then. For the person, and I think this is sort of what Christiana is saying. For those who are not lucky enough to find themselves in that place, in that moment. Some people can't be in a park.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
They can't choose the kids. They can't, do you get what I'm saying? What is the trick that you would recommend? And I mean this honestly, because I go, I really go every- You're comparing your why.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So all I ask you is for that person now, let's imagine a person who goes, Simon, I don't have much in the way of my community. and this is because of, you know, a series of factors, you know, there isn't a club, there isn't a that, there isn't whatever. I work because this was the only job I could get.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So I don't have the luxury of being recruited and I haven't been found by where I would like to be found. Okay. But I'm also looking for a piece of this. And my job is a soul sucking experience where they want me here from the earliest time to the latest time. And I give all of my energy to this thing. And then when I get home, I have to look after my family. And this is a, How do they find that?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Or what are you saying to that person where they don't have the immediate luxury of like springing out, searching for it, going to another place, doing another thing? What is like a... Because there's always something we can do.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
But again, I'm just going to push you on this because I need a tip. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Because I agree with all of that. But this is why I think Christiana and I are friends because I understand a lot of what she's saying, honestly, like innately. So I'm saying now that people are in this situation, what's like a hack?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Because there are some people who literally, they can't find the community because there is no community. They don't have the people around them. They live in a different country maybe. Maybe their family doesn't even talk to them. Is there like a, just like a little hack or something that can move you towards that?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Just move them around. Actually, wait, so. Let me ask you this. So one of my favorite things, just to give people a bit of context... Simon and I have, I don't know how long we've known each other for now. Probably three years. Yeah, somewhere there. Three years. But my favorite thing about you by far is that I just throw puzzles at you. I just go, here's a puzzle. What do you think?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Damn, you sound like my mom. No wonder she always says service. Okay. Christiana, are you going to do the thing?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
We'll do it in private.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
yep well you see as I said I never know what's going to happen when I sit down with Simon Sinek but at the end of it there's something else that I discover a new way to see like a paradigm you know and I think everyone listening had the same experience Simon Sinek thank you so much for joining us thanks for having me such a joy thank you you've got to take me to those good companies I was actually thinking about Chobani the founder of that yogurt company yeah I haven't met him yet but I mean they have a great reputation I can take you if you really want to see some cool stuff we can take you to see some cool stuff thank you
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And then you'll throw some at me and then we'll go back and forth. And what I love about you is the thing that most people like about you in the world is like how your brain works and how you're able to synthesize information that sort of gives us an understanding of something that maybe we didn't understand.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Yeah, but I'm not formal with it. I'm like... Formal? No, no, no. What I mean by this is like... I'm not an academic. No, what I'm trying to say is like, I'm not always trying to help people. I think there's a difference. This man is chaotic good. I wouldn't distill me like that. Pure chaos.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Maybe he makes the chaos so that he can find the order. Perhaps it is. I resent all of these comments. But either way, I'm happy to have you here. Before I get into my stuff, I wanted to know, is there a puzzle you're trying to solve right now that we can help you with?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
No, no, this is great. This is why people listen. Trust me. This is why people listen. Because I feel like to give people a little more context, you know, like you blew up on the scene many years ago. And I think you've had like multiple moments that have really put you into the zeitgeist. But...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
One thing that I think has separated you from many people is that you're seen as somebody who is inspirational and thought-provoking and really a modern-day philosopher in how we see the world. But then you're also seen like that by institutions in some ways.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So you'll get brought in to speak to military leaders or personnel, and you'll get brought in to speak into parts of government or companies. They'll go like, Simon, we need you to come in. Okay, I'm going to ask you a question. You don't have to expose anybody here. Mm-hmm. And I'll tell you what I think about it and then I'd love to know your opinion on it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
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What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
In my time traveling around the world and spending a lot of time with leaders in America, not political, by the way, just across the board, people who have power over other people in any way, shape or form. I have been shocked at how much people who are in charge of shit do not know what is going on.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
And I'm going to repeat this a little bit slower because it shocked me when I came to the realization. Most of the people, many even of the people, let's not say most, many of the people who are in charge of companies, of institutions, of like, you know, states, they do not know. Yeah. What is going on? It's an amateur point of view because I don't work like with them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
So you're the person who works with them. I want to know like the people who are running the world, do they know what they're doing?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Oh, that's okay. Okay. So strategic people are more likely, in your opinion, to know that they aren't great at the tactics. Correct. But tactical people are less likely to know. They think they're great at strategy. They think they're great at strategy.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I'm just trying to narrow down. Why? That's an interesting, we've all worked in places. Wow, that was a... I actually think Christiana does think or did think that maybe.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Okay, okay. Do you think of yourself as an idiot?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch, member FDIC. Terms and more at applecard.com. Paramount Plus. Looking for your next streaming obsession? Paramount Plus has a mountain of all-new original dramas, including the series everyone is talking about, Landman, starring Billy Bob Thornton, Jon Hamm, and Demi Moore.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
Brilliant and an idiot.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
Why Are All Bosses Idiots? with Simon Sinek [VIDEO]
I actually do think that. No, I do.