Interdisciplinary artist Derek Fordjour is one of Trevor’s Favorite People. The two discuss creating art, African diaspora, and assigning value within society. Above all else, they agree humans need storytelling. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: How do you know when something is finished in art?
How do you know when something's finished? I think there's a creeping feeling that you get where you're like, I'm not making this better. You know, it's kind of like when you're in a barber's chair, like the longer you're there, this guy can only remove hair. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. You shouldn't be there too long.
There's like a moment that if you're like, it's been a while. You want to look for a mirror. So it's diminishing returns in a way. Yeah, like there's a point where you're like, if I stay in this, it's not going to get better. I'm sure you like write a joke and you're like, that's too many words. I did too much to get there. You know, it's enough. Leave it.
There's like a instinct, right? Yeah, mine I think is more, do I still feel this way? Yeah, that's the same thing. Yeah, that's more mine. My guest on today's podcast is someone I'm lucky enough to call a friend and a human being who has achieved one of the hardest things in the world, which is becoming extremely successful and genre-defying in many ways as an artist.
I always think about how crazy it must have been back in the days to be friends with someone like Picasso or Michelangelo or any of those people. And I'm not comparing artists, but for me, Derek Forgeau is the modern equivalent. He's an artist, he's a painter, a sculptor, one of my favorite people who's able to bring history, identity and joy to life in a way that stops you in your tracks.
We've known each other for a while now. I've always been inspired by how deeply he sees the world and how beautifully he translates that onto the canvas. And so in this conversation, we get into how art messes with value in the best way, why all work is kind of a scam, and what it means to create beauty, even when no one's buying it. Yet.
I think you're really going to walk away from this conversation with your mind spinning, and hopefully your heart full, just like I always do. This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. Rolling. All right. Derek Forger, what's going on, man? Hello, Trevor. How are you going to go and get a blocked nose when we're doing a podcast?
Bro, you blow me up immediately about the nose. No, because you know why. What are you self-conscious about?
No, but okay, let me explain. First of all, I apologize. I didn't know you were self-conscious about it. The reason I have to call it out is because some people will be hearing your voice for the first time. That's true. Some people. That's true. And then they'll think that that's how you speak. Yeah, I have a very different voice than what I have today. Yeah, yeah. Right?
So it's similar, but I know you're nasally today. But you say you're not sick. Well, I can't be sick. I'm an American. Let me tell you, I worked at The Daily Show. I was in the office for eight years. I hosted for seven years. No one ever admitted being sick.
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Chapter 2: Who is Derek Fordjour and what makes him unique?
Yes.
It really does. The trilogy. Scene opens up. Right. Young Derek. Right. Little black kid in Tennessee. That's right. A hundred percent. Camera comes into like the little house. Where did you live? A house, I'm assuming.
A small little house in Memphis. It was a little apartment actually. A little apartment. Yeah, even better. Marvel loves apartments.
Could we start with the kid? Superheroes love apartments.
It has to be an apartment. Apartments are better than houses for superheroes. But it has to start with the kid being bullied, being called African booty scratcher. Were you called that? Were you not? I was in Africa. Who's going to call me that? That's true. This is true. That would be awkward.
Who was going to say to me, ah, Trevor, you're an African booty scratcher.
I'm like, yeah, we're all African booty scratchers. What do you mean? No, it's true.
Wait, you got called African booty scratcher.
Totally. It's a thing.
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Chapter 3: What are the cultural differences in workplace dynamics?
You know, I was like, bro, I'm really African. Like, trust me. Say something. You know, it was like that kind of like shakedown. And now that we're older, we realize that they also just didn't That splintering, they didn't want to happen. And then there was also this envious thing. Because they're like, dude, we don't know where we came from. We don't know our origins.
When we got old enough, they talked about that. I was like, oh, that was part envy. They admired it on some level. And they were also envious of it. And I also appreciated differently what it means to go back to the town of my mother's mother. That is like the, you know, we are matrilineal. But to know that is to like locate your lineage. That's part of the slow violence that happened in America.
Yeah, I'll often say, we talk about slavery as being one of the most heinous things that happened in history, and it is. But I don't think we speak enough about how cruel it was to not just steal a people from their place, but steal a place from their people. Do you know what I mean? Because they robbed people. I think of it for myself, right?
There are moments when the world will throw you around. People want to label you, not label you, no matter what it is. If I pause and I breathe, I go, you can take everything away from me. You can even take my citizenship from my country. I'm not South African anymore. But you know what? My Xhosa lineage, I can paint it for you.
I can paint it for you and I can show you each little, like, you know what I mean? Which name took us where and how. Do you get what I'm saying? And I think that thing- People take for granted how beautiful it is to know why you do what you do because it comes from a long story that was told before you. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.
So I remember Roots. I don't know if... The show? Yeah, the show.
Right.
Exactly. So they had a few iterations of it. But when we grew up, it was the first iteration from Alex Haley, the author who wrote Roots. And it was, I think, for a long time, like the most watched miniseries. Black, white, American households were obsessed with Roots. Yeah. And it created a narrative for African-Americans that...
that explained their roots in this very detailed, multi-generational story. The old African, you see Kunta Kinte as a young man, and then you see him as an old African. And so Kunta Kinte was in the lexicon, in the whole thing. And then years later, we found out that some of the details in that story were fabricated. that Alex Haley wrote. And so it wasn't all true.
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Chapter 4: How do African and African-American experiences differ?
I don't. That's what I love.
But why would you get on stage if you don't know that?
No, but you see, what I love is finding the thing. So, funny is universal. Okay. This is the first and foremost. In theory, yes. No, no. We can fight about it all day. Funny is universal. And what I mean by that is everyone in the world experiences funny. Yes. Rats laugh. Did you know this? I did not know that.
And I would have had to come here to find that out.
Yeah. So rats laugh and rats smile. What does it sound like? I don't know. Okay.
That's what I'll find out after this.
I've just read the papers on it, right? A rat laugh. Okay. So rats laugh. Okay. We don't know why they're laughing. But they're laughing. Humans find something funny everywhere in the world. What I love is trying to figure out where their funny is and how my funny can intertwine with it.
So I used to, and I still do in some ways, I used to envy American comedians because American comedians could go anywhere in the world and tell a joke the way they told it in America.
Because people know American culture.
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