What Now? with Trevor Noah
The Ozempic Obsession with Jia Tolentino (ARCHIVE EPISODE) [VIDEO]
Thu, 02 Jan 2025
Happy New Year! To get the year started off right, we’re re-publishing one of our favorite episodes from 2024. Trevor and Christiana chatted with Jia Tolentino in May of last year; 8 months later, and Ozempic is still a hot topic. Ozempic. It started with a lizard, and then transformed into a drug that, depending on who you ask, is either a miracle or the downfall of society. New Yorker writer and cultural critic Jia Tolentino joins Trevor and Christiana to give context on the media circus surrounding weight loss drugs, and how Ozempic is changing the conversation around fatness in America. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the Ozempic obsession about?
Hey, what's going on What Now listeners? Happy new year to you and yours from everyone here at the What Now team. I hope the new year is already looking up for you. We've got so many great episodes planned for you in 2025. But today, because the team is taking some time off, some much deserved time off,
We decided to bring you an episode that we loved, probably one of our favorite episodes from the season. The episode about Ozempic, you know, weight loss, our culture's obsession with diet and physical appearance. I mean, we got as much feedback about this episode as any episode we've done so far. So for now, take a listen. And once again, Happy New Year.
I'm not a scientist and none of this is actual advice. Please take everything. Imagine I'm an idiot who has stumbled into your village. Now you can listen to me. This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. This episode is brought to you by Atlassian. So join the 83% of the Fortune 500 that trust Atlassian to help transform their enterprise. Learn how to unleash the potential of your team
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Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Member FDIC. Terms and more at applecard.com. Christiana, nice to see you in person. Good to see you. This was so much fun, friend. I haven't seen you in so, like this. I know.
In the flesh. We used to do this every day. Yeah. Remember? We used to make a show every day.
Every single day of our lives. I loved it.
You liked it so much you quit. And left us.
Oh, man. I'm excited to have this conversation today because... I mean, I'm excited for all conversations, but this conversation is one that I don't even think we'll be able to complete today, which I think all good conversations are, strangely enough. And this one in particular intrigues me because... Everybody's talking about Ozempic, right?
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Chapter 2: How did Ozempic change societal views on weight?
That's my catchphrase, by the way, if they want to buy it from me. I'm available, Eli Lilly. I'm available. I never know how to say their name. Yeah, I can't say it either. But yeah, I feel like we were at an interesting inflection point in society where... there was a point when this would have just been, would have been shunned completely. Do you know what I mean?
People would be like, this is trash.
You're cheating.
Yeah. And then now it's slowly, we're like, you know? Yeah. It's like Republican, Democrat. It's like 50-50 now.
It's basically, I was like... Yeah. Where do you stand on this? Oh my God, Trevor, you can't ask me that at the beginning of the thing. That's exactly where you start, at the beginning. I am pro-choice when it comes to Zen Pick. Oh, I like this. Well played. I am pro-choice. I'm pro-choice. That's who I am. Yeah.
So you have no moral judgment or opinion on it?
No. I've seen friends and family members on the drug and seen how it's changed their life.
Okay, so this is what I'd love to know.
Changed their lives in what way? Beyond the weight, they seem more comfortable in their bodies. Some of them had like back and knee issues. You know, some people, it was just like they were struggling. Some people, it's like it's kind of regulated their appetite. They're drinking less. So when you see it from that perspective, it's been like, oh, wow.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of weight loss drugs?
I think I think about Ozempic the way I think about a lot of cultural phenomena, which is I have a lot of thoughts about it at a sort of macro level. And then in terms of anyone's individual use or not use of it, other than I have a group chat where my friends sometimes send pictures of celebrities and like to make fun of the fact that I never know who it is because everyone looks so different.
But yeah, I mean, I'm pro-choice too, you know, like it's... It's none of my damn business what anyone's doing with their own body.
You know, it's interesting you bring up the thing about celebrities because, like, I've noticed now there's a... You know, we talk about the shame game and the blame. There's this game now where people see someone and they're like, oh, that's Ozempic. I've noticed with me, depending on, like, how someone takes a picture of me, someone will be like, you're an Ozempic. Like, I've never lost weight.
But then sometimes I go, like, it seems like it's become... In a way, it's almost become a bit of a slur or an insult. It's like, oh, I see you're on Ozempic. Ah, you're one of them. Trump is the only one that you really need to... Because the Republican Party doesn't have an opinion.
I heard he's on Ozempic. Everyone calling him... Wait, what? They're saying Ozempic Trump. They're calling him Ozempic Trump.
Donald Trump on Ozempic?
Allegedly. Please, Maga, don't come for me. Please. Allegedly. Wow. He looks different. I believe it.
Damn, I can see him now. Oh, oh, oh, oh, Ozempic.
I, you know, this I do have thoughts on, you know, I think that one of the things that our whole fascination with Ozempic is based on is, and it's interesting, you know, Christiane, I wonder if you have thoughts with little kids, right?
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Chapter 4: Is there societal pressure surrounding weight loss?
If you got married and you didn't gain weight, people would say that your marriage is not going well. Literally, they'd be like, is your wife not treating you well? No, man, look at you. If I would come home from the States, and like many times I would, I'd come back from America and I'd gain weight. And so whenever I'd go home, people were like, ah, you're looking good, man. You're looking good.
America's treating you well. You're looking Trevor Norman. You're looking good. Look at your cheeks. You're looking good. And so where I grew up, fatness was considered like sort of a choice. And then being skinny was like, well, your life is not going well and you're not making the right choices. For sure. So it's interesting how it flips, you know, and I'm sure it's time as well.
But in both cases, it's about wealth, right? I mean, in both cases, like the thing that is valued is always the thing that's correlated with wealth. And I feel like that's been the case. You look through art history, right? The fuller figures are valued at a time when it's, you know, the wealthy signifying plenty.
And now it's signifying, you know, I got a trainer, I got a cook, I got a, you know...
I mean, it's funny that you mention the childhood stuff that it brings up because recently it was approved for children. Oh, it was? Yeah. And there are parents who are making the decision. I don't know about that. I mean, Trevor, that's very visceral. You're like giving it to kids.
I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I do not think that these types of drugs should be approved for children. I personally believe that there are still a whole host of things that you can do to get that child. Like if you're giving them this drug, I'm assuming it's because their weight is really detrimental to their health. Otherwise, it's weird.
Like you're just trying to make like a sexy kid or something.
That's weird. It's so crazy. But I meet mothers, a lot of older girls who are like preteens and teenagers, and they'll show you pictures of their daughter and be like, oh, but this one needs to lose weight. You know, like mothers, it's so encoded in our culture that there are mothers out there and fathers out there. You need to lose weight.
I mean, most people's relationship with food don't come from themselves. They often come from their parents and their families.
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Chapter 5: How do cultural perceptions of body image differ globally?
pretty impossible to get right most people don't have it naturally and you're not probably going to have that after you have kids I was always considered a bit too skinny like my grandma was like I remember she was saying to me once she was crying and my mum was like why are you crying she was just like she calls me by my name Amma she was just like who's going to marry Amma she's got bones right
You know, if you actually go to West Africa in particular, you see a lot of body diversity. So you see like really tall women, really muscular women. And like in Nigeria, I think the most, the biggest indicator about how bodies naturally are is that does your tribe have a fattening room? Which is like before a woman gets married, she has to go to a room. You said a fattening room.
They call it a fattening room where you have to become fat because the girls are just naturally quite muscular, especially in like in the Southeast, quite muscular and live. You know what I mean? So you know what that means. Fatness is supposed to be good, a sign of fertility.
But then again... How long do you stay in the room?
Until you get fat.
I love this.
Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I don't know about that. Oh, wait. Okay.
Depends on how they're making you fat.
Is it like... They're giving you yams and thick food, carbohydrates, basically, and lots of meat to make you bigger.
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Chapter 6: What are the potential consequences of prescribing Ozempic to children?
But I said, okay, finally, like we have reached a new era. Maybe it will unlock the sort of hold that white diet culture has had on America since the 20s, basically. And then this happened. And it was like, Oh, no. Oh, no. We're swinging. I mean, that was my initial interest. I was like, I thought we had already changed that we were going to stay on this train of, you know, openness.
And I don't know. And the sharp swing back and what that meant for the way people talked and thought about beauty, I thought was extremely interesting. And then so I just started tracking it.
So here's the thing, I wonder though, do you think that utopia can ever exist? And, you know, because I mean, like, I don't know, sometimes I'm a little simple in this thinking in that I go, we're still animals and animals also judge each other based on some physical aspect and we're no different. Yeah.
I just think what happens to us that's particularly different is there are tastemakers that exist in different spheres who sort of like pull the levers to decide how we define where the Overton window of beauty actually exists and where the one of health is. Do you think that our conversations these days... lie in beauty or do they lie in health?
Or is it people using health to masquerade their views on what they think beautiful is?
Yeah, I think it's like the latter, right? And I think even if we were in this utopia where we accepted everyone's bodies, like I think The Economist did a piece about talking about the fact that like women's salaries are pegged to what they weigh. Yes. And if you lose a certain amount of weight, your salary goes up.
Yeah.
So it's just like the market forces for whatever reason, we know the reasons, reward being skinny. And by the way, did you see the opposite is true for men?
Interesting. The more a woman gains in weight, the more her salary goes down. And with men, the bigger they get, like the rounder, I guess it's like because you look like King Richard or those vibes. Yeah.
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Chapter 7: How do weight loss drugs affect lifestyle choices?
Yeah, I think there was a story I read. It might have been one of your stories, actually, where there was a woman who was struggling to breathe.
Yeah. And yeah, it was blood. Yeah.
Yeah.
That was like, oh, you're like, your lungs are simply fat. Yeah. Yeah.
And she actually had, did she have lung cancer?
Blood clots. Oh, she had blood clots. Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think, you know, you mostly find the healthy way of talking about it in people who have had to like advocate for themselves against all of these things for a long time. I also think fundamentally, probably the healthiest way to talk about health is to kind of set weight aside altogether, right? And talk about other metrics like... VO2 max and... Yeah, I don't know what that means.
No, no, no, really. No, I hear VO2 max is the gold standard. That's actually, they say VO2 max is your body's ability to withdraw or to extract oxygen from every breath. Apparently, that's it.
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Chapter 8: What does the future hold for conversations about body image?
I'm not even on my phone as much. I don't gamble as much. And you're just like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Compulsive shopping? Yeah. I read about that. Someone who stopped them compulsive shopping.
And so, you know, I almost wonder if in discovering this solution, have we now exposed all of the poisonous problems that society... has unleashed upon itself. Does this make sense?
Yeah. We don't judge gambling or drinking or online shopping in the same way that we do weight. So that was what the person was fixated on. I got on Ozempic to lose weight. But they discovered all these other parts of themselves. They were awakened to like, I actually spend too much money. Like a woman said she was going through Target and she wasn't putting things in her cart. Yes.
This is what I mean. In the same way. And I found that so interesting. We don't see like excessive shopping the same way we see excessive eating. And I think that's the most interesting part of the drug.
Well, this is taking it in a slightly different direction. But what this part of the conversation makes me think of and what I think this thing that was in the back of my head when I was writing and thinking about it was that...
One of the reasons that I, on a macro level, find it really sad when people who are extremely thin take this to become much thinner is that what it is to be human, we're made up of our appetites. That's one of the defining things of what we seek and what we literally physically hunger for and desire. you know, like our desire for pleasure and relief and excitement, right?
These things are important and they make us human. And back to the conversation about kids, it's like so much of the rise of obesity in children seems directly related to the fact that people are so afraid of fat children in the first place, right? Like that children are taught to fear their appetites and fear the snack drawer. Like the idea of just kind of natural pleasure, right?
in our appetite seems to be the thing that might possibly lead to the healthiest relationship with them in all cases, right? To not need to indulge and have guilty pleasures and sort of secret little things, right? That if these appetites, if we could sort of treat them normally in all respects, and it seems like American consumerist culture just blows all of these kind of compulsions
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