Jonathan Haidt, noted social psychologist and author of The Anxious Generation, sits down with Trevor and Christiana to discuss how smartphones and social media are harming Gen Z – and really all of us. He encourages claiming back third spaces, championing anti-fragility, and … maybe letting your kid go take a walk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who is Jonathan Haidt and what is 'The Anxious Generation' about?
We've created a world where the barrier to entry for some of the things that we've agreed on as some of the most harmful to younger kids, the barrier to entry is zero. It's literally, you click a button that says, I am 18 or older. And I remember the first time I saw that button when I wasn't 18, it was on a computer game called Leisure Suit Larry. I don't know if you've ever heard of this game.
No, I haven't heard of that. So it was a story of this man, Leisure Suit Larry, whose only goal was to have sex. That's all he was trying to do.
What a prick. And you get points for the number of times... And you played this game.
I remember the first one, you were just at a bar, and you would type on the computer, like, open door, knock on door, and the bouncer would be like, what's the code? And you're like, what is the code? But when I think about this world, I think about the option is like, in the game, it would say to you at the beginning... are you 18 or older? And I said, no. I was honest. I was like, no.
And the game was like, you're not old enough to play. I remember being like, oh. And then I booted it up again. And then I went, I am 18. And it was like, welcome to the game. Something is happening to our kids. Anxiety, depression, and loneliness are on the rise, and it looks like it's not just a phase. Parents overwhelmed, young people feel lost, and no one's quite sure what or who is to blame.
But today's guest has spent years trying to answer just that question. Jonathan Haidt is a leading social psychologist, a professor at NYU, and the author of The Anxious Generation, a book that's sparking urgent conversations around the world today. In this episode, we unpack what's going wrong and what we might still be able to do to get it right. This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.
So when you wrote Anxious Generation, did you think you were tapping into the, I mean, arguably like one of the most, what would you call it? The most pertinent moments of this generation? Because I mean, you've written a few books and every author who's writing about something, especially someone as learned as you, is thinking about the world.
But this feels like it tapped into every single parent and everyone who's in the zeitgeist. It completely, I mean, it's still, you know, the last I checked, it's still on the New York Times bestsellers list. It just stays there as robust as ever.
The mom groups are still talking about it.
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Chapter 2: How has technology changed childhood from play-based to phone-based?
They arrested her.
She was put in jail.
Which is insane.
The boy was 10. Yeah. And she didn't even send him. The boy was 10 and he decided to walk, you know, a little bit to a store.
Which is a credit to her, by the way. Yes, exactly. Oh, I'm going to go to a store.
Yeah, that's right. So a lot of the fear in America is not just of abduction. Some people are afraid of abduction, which is almost unheard of in this country. But others of us are afraid that a neighbor will call the police on us.
Yeah, you're afraid of social services. It's safer. That's right.
But it's funny you say this. Yeah. and I'm always cautious in how I say this, but I feel like Americans really need to be aware of this. So much of what America's experiencing and doing right now is akin to what you would hear in like communist, like Soviet, you know, USSR times, like it was, like where it was like neighbor might call the police on you. And it was all about that.
It was all about like, It wasn't just that the state was surveilling you. It was that you didn't know who even your family was surveilling you.
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