Michael Barbaro
Appearances
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. As soon as this week, after months of testimony, verdicts are expected in a rape trial that has both horrified and captivated the people of France. Today...
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
She says this out loud, which sounds a bit, to me, like the words of a civil rights figure, not a French grandmother.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
So after lifting the veil of anonymity that so often surrounds the victim, she's now making sure that there is no anonymity whatsoever around the conduct of the accused men.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
It's hard for me, Catherine, to fathom what kind of a defense can be put forward by the dozens of men, many of them in this courtroom, knowing what's on those videos, these audible sounds of her being asleep. So what are they saying or do we expect them to say in this trial in their own defense, if anything? Right.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
And since we're talking about the defense of these men, what has her ex-husband said in his defense?
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
So he is in no way denying that the worst conceivable version of this is exactly what happened.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
Hmm. You had said that Gisele Pelico wanted to change society with this approach to the trial, by letting herself be named, by opening it up to reporters like you. So the question is, has she accomplished that? And if she has, how exactly?
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
It feels like if this scene outside the courtroom is any indication that what Giselle Pelico wants to happen around shame and rape culture, it's actually already starting to happen. She is effectuating this change herself.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
Well, to understand how the woman at the center of this case does this remarkable thing, let's start at the beginning of this case.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
It strikes me that... the unintended consequence of these longtime practices that we use when it comes to rape, of shrouding a victim in anonymity, which makes so much sense.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
for so many reasons, because of the shame you described, that they've had this unintentional consequence that we haven't really thought that much about, which is we end up focused so little on the women who have had this experience because they mostly remain anonymous. We end up spending so much of our time focused on the men. And what's changed here is that Gisele Pelico has said,
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
Not just that she's going to switch up the question of shame, but she's going to switch up the question of basic power.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
Well, Catherine, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
Here's what else you need to know today. Ukraine says it has assassinated the general who led Russia's nuclear defense force The general, Igor Kurylov, was killed when an explosive device planted inside a scooter was detonated on Tuesday morning near the entryway to a residential building. It was one of Ukraine's most brazen assassinations since Russia invaded Ukraine nearly three years ago.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
On Tuesday, New York City prosecutors charged Luigi Mangione with first-degree murder in the shooting death of UnitedHealthcare's CEO. The charges branded Mangione a terrorist and portrayed his alleged murder plot as a political act. Today's episode was produced by Shannon Lin and Eric Krupke, with help from Rob Zipko and Olivia Nadd.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
It was edited by Lexi Diao and Michael Benoit, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Sophia Landman, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landferk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Zegolene Lestradek, That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
So there is something very dark happening just under the surface of what looks like this very idyllic life.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
My colleague, correspondent Catherine Porter, on the woman at the center of that trial and how, with a single decision, she has turned the power dynamics of the Me Too era on their head. It's Wednesday, December 18th. Catherine, it has been a really long time, and I am very glad to be speaking with you.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
An unfathomable piece of information to absorb, I have to imagine, because in this moment, she is hearing that her whole life is not what she thought it was, and that the man she's married to is a monster.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
Mm-hmm. And just to be very clear, because it almost seems impossible to wrap one's head around this, she, if I'm intuiting from you correctly, has no inkling of any of this.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
And what do we learn about these men accused of this unbelievably horrible act?
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
It feels like this is normally the stage in a story like this, as we know from countless Me Too episodes of this show that we have made, where despite even the unique horrors of what you're describing here... The legal system kicks in in this kind of predictable way. And the media world starts to pay attention in a way that focuses very heavily on the perpetrators, on the men.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
So we're going to be talking today about a case that, when it first began to reverberate outside of France, where you are, really shocked the world. And then, as even the most shocking things do, it kind of receded from our collective consciousness, but not from yours.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
And the victim, the woman here, quite understandably, remains anonymous.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
In other words, to use her husband's name.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
We'll be right back. So, Catherine, take us inside the courtroom, into this trial, and walk us through how this remarkable decision ends up influencing how the case plays out.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
From what you're saying, the scale, the enormity of the alleged crime here is just physically inescapable in the room.
The Daily
France’s Horrifying Rape Trial Has a Feminist Hero
And at the center of it all, quite literally, the scene is Giselle Pelico.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. On Tuesday, the confirmation process for Donald Trump's cabinet began with his most controversial choice, Pete Hegseth for Secretary of Defense. Today... my colleague, national security correspondent Eric Schmidt, on the contentious and dramatic hearing and the odds that Hegseth will soon be running the military.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
And what exactly does he mean when he's using that word standards? It sounds like he is suggesting that... during a Democratic administration of Joe Biden, that those standards got lowered. But he doesn't quite come out and say it, but is that what he's implying?
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Right, and she had seemed to be against his nomination in the beginning and then slowly began to express support for him after several meetings. And so where we meet her on Tuesday is that she seems to be in his camp. That's right.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Right. And that matters because she seems to be basically pushing back against these Democratic women senators and the case they're making.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Beyond these questions around gender and DEI, where else does this questioning go?
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Right, and Hexeth answers them all like kind of rapid fire, and he seems to get the answers right.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Right. And by the end, it's very interesting. Democrats have basically been saying, you're not technically qualified to run the Department of Defense in the way that we think about previous secretaries of defense, and therefore the DOD under you will be a mess.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
And Republicans are saying, no, actually, because he has the right kind of experience and because he's going to root out, you know, what they would describe as kind of woke DEI culture in the military... He's actually going to save the Department of Defense from the current mess, as they see it. They're both kind of talking right past each other, the Democrats and Republicans.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Eric, what was so surprising about that is that here you have a nominee to run the military saying that in his mind, there are moments where soldiers perhaps don't need to follow the chain of command, which is a weird message to send when you want to be the head of the military.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Eric, by the end of the hearing, it very much felt like every Democrat in that room was signaling that they will be opposing Hegseth. And my sense is that all the Republicans on that committee are going to be voting for Hegseth. And so he will be recommended by this committee.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
And if we assume that the same scenario plays out in the full Senate, then Hegseth most likely becomes the next secretary of defense. And...
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
It would seem like there's some risk here, especially for the Democrats in the Senate, that whether they mean to or not, in their opposition to Hegseth, they're kind of reinforcing the message of the election itself, which is that Trump is the candidate of government disruption and Democrats are the party that guards the status quo. What do you make of that?
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Well, Eric, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
On Tuesday night, Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa, whose vote is considered decisive for Hegseth's confirmation, said that she would support his nomination, all but assuring that he will become the next Secretary of Defense. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Officials in California now say it may take weeks or longer to fully extinguish the largest of the wildfires that have ravaged greater Los Angeles. On Tuesday, heavy winds ignited several new fires, but many of them were quickly brought under control. And US securities regulators have sued Elon Musk in federal court over his conduct in purchasing Twitter.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
According to regulators, Musk violated securities laws in 2022 by amassing a large stake in the social media company without filing the required notification. But because of Musk's close relationship with President-elect Trump, it's likely that the incoming administration may seek to drop the lawsuit. Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko, Rochelle Bonja, and Carlos Prieto.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn and Maria Byrne, contains original music by Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Right, the firebrand or the charmer. Right, or some combination. So given those three big questions going into this hearing, take us into the actual confirmation hearing itself as you tried to figure out which way it was going to go for each of those three constituencies, Republicans, Democrats, and Hegseth himself.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Right. And given that original question you posed, it now seems that Republicans will not be acknowledging any misgivings about Pete Hegseth that they had early on.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
It's Wednesday, January 15th. Eric, from the moment that Pete Hegseth was nominated to run the Department of Defense, it, as you well know, created a storm of controversy on both sides of the aisle because of the reports of his personal misconduct, because of his views on issues like whether women should be in the military, and because of his lack of traditional management experience.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
It's as thorough a public disqualification, a kind of dismissal, as I think I've ever seen in, I don't know, the 10 or 15 years I've ever watched a congressional hearing. It's a senior member of one of these committees basically saying, I don't even know why you are in front of me. It's a total takedown.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
And, of course, Hegstead is sitting across from Senator Reid. At this point, his jaw looks really tense. And then suddenly, and I was watching this alongside of you, it's his turn to finally speak. What does he say?
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
Everything about him represented a major deviation from the norm of who the Secretary of Defense is, so much so that it looked like Donald Trump might dump him as his choice, but that hasn't happened. So heading into this confirmation hearing, what for you were the big questions about how this very highly anticipated day would unfold?
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
What, if anything, does Hegseth say in this opening statement about the questions that have come up around his resume?
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
The ranking Democrat is determined to try to disqualify him in the eyes of the public. And Hank Seth is proudly and pretty diplomatically and cleverly embracing the role of the change agent.
The Daily
Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
So, Eric, talk about the fireworks portion of this hearing, the questioning of Hegseth from senators of both parties.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Right, and the question immediately became, what do you do after one of the world's great, important, essential, beloved buildings is this badly damaged?
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
That case got cracked wide open, all of which delayed this much-awaited debut of yours on the show. And today is the day. You, our chief architecture critic... finally here talking about something worthy of your biography, Notre Dame.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
We'll be right back. So, Michael, tell us how France did this, how they pulled this on-time miracle off.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, just to begin, do you remember the first time you stepped inside that cathedral?
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
So this is not exactly living inside the cathedral as you had originally thought, but you have this chance. So tell us about this one day you get to go inside.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
There are many times when I could have left and I haven't left here.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
I'm trying to envision people going out into the forests of France, looking at trees and saying, ah, that one is worthy of that beam. You'll remember Francois and the rafters up there. Cut down that tree.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
So your memory of it is vague, but the impression I'm getting is that whatever it did to you, it did something.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Devotional to the original workers and the original mission and meaning of this entire cathedral.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
I'm curious, once you get down from the roof and you are witnessing this exceptionally faithful devotional effort to bring the roof back to what it looked like a thousand years ago, what you saw on the interior, probably the best known portions of Notre Dame.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
So let's fast forward a good deal to several years ago. Where were you when you first heard that Notre Dame was burning?
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, that makes me wonder, as an architecture critic, did you have, by the end of this tour, by the end of this coveted day that you got, some kind of final assessment of... the experience of this restored cathedral.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Basically, you should prepare yourself for going inside a 1,000-year-old building that has been power washed.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, you're getting at the question I've been waiting to ask you this entire conversation, which is if architecture, as you have laid out here, tells us something about us, what did this renovation, this project, tell us about ourselves right now?
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
And now it's in the best shape that it's ever been in probably a thousand years.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, Michael, on that really beautiful note, thank you very, very much.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Here's what else you need to know today. On Tuesday, Israel said it had destroyed Syria's navy during a series of airstrikes in what it described as defensive measures designed to protect itself against Syria's new government.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
But the attacks have defied warnings from Western governments, who fear they may ignite a new conflict in the region, and fear that Israel is using the fall of Syria's government as an opportunity to take offensive actions.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
As the Assad government fell over the weekend, Israeli ground forces advanced beyond the demilitarized zone on the Israeli-Syria border, marking Israel's first overt entry into Syrian territory in more than 50 years. Today's episode was produced by Carlos Prieto and Jessica Chung.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
It was edited by Michael Benoit, contains original music by Dan Powell, Pat McCusker, Marion Lozano, and Diane Wong, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lanferk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Aurelien Breeden, Ségolène Lestradec, Catherine Porter, and Brian Katz. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
the Cathedral of Notre Dame reopened to the public. Today, chief architecture critic Michael Kimmelman with the story of the miracle on the Seine. It's Wednesday, December 11th. Michael, welcome to The Daily.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, I'm curious, when this inquiry is moving along and you're making phone calls and you're researching the history of Notre Dame and trying to understand why the feelings about its burning are so widespread and so deep, what do you find?
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, tell us a little bit about that history. And I suspect through that, we will understand what it has meant to us during that entire period.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
In other words, all French roads quite literally lead to this cathedral.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
It's fascinating because what could better embody the idea of a single building's importance to a place than it becomes a central target of an effort to overturn the entire system?
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
I don't think we can miss an opportunity, since you brought it with you, to read from the hunchback of Notre Dame.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
I'm just going to acknowledge that we have been trying to get you on the show for seven years. And then two days more, because over the past couple of days, there's been a tremendous amount of very serious news. The government in Syria fell a closely watched manhunt for the suspected murderer of the CEO of a major healthcare company.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
It reminds me of what you said at the beginning of this conversation about architecture, is that this is not some abstract piece of architecture. It's living, it's breathing, it tells us something essential about who we are at any given moment. And Hugo, as you said, he's not saying that through an especially religious lens. He's seeing this more as a secular temple.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Well, since you just brought it up, remind us, How severe this fire ends up being.
The Daily
Notre-Dame Rises From the Ashes
Right. You were wrong when you were on the bike telling your editor it couldn't burn. There's a lot of wood in that cathedral.
The Daily
The Year in Wisdom
Hey, it's Michael. For our final episode of 2024, guest host Melissa Kirsch is back, talking with some of our Times colleagues about the year's best advice for living well. I think this one's really special. Take a listen.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
After the break, Jonathan Swan on what Trump actually did on day one. We'll be right back. Jonathan, I want you to pick up with the second half of Donald Trump's day, when he's suddenly endowed with the full powers of the presidency. What does he do with that power?
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
So talk us through some of the specific orders that really stand out.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Now he's taking it out. Reversing the reversal.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
The president is basically ordering every executive agency to go dig up potentially incriminating evidence that could be used against the outgoing administration and its personnel.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
On Monday, in the culmination of an extraordinary political comeback.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Right, because it could become a tool of that retribution. Pretty blatantly, yes. I think we have to end, and end quite meaningfully, with something that wasn't an executive order per se, but flowed from the executive pen, which was President Trump's pardons.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear. Donald Trump was officially sworn in as President of the United States for a second time. Just four years after being voted out of office and being impeached and later criminally charged for trying to overturn that result.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
It's quite possible that the history books will look back on this mass pardoning as the defining act of this first day of Trump's presidency. And I think it arguably speaks to something that our colleague Peter Baker told us when we asked him to analyze Trump's inaugural speech.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
And he talked about just how much Trump is, at this moment, telling the story of America in relation to himself and kind of fusing man and country in the way he talks. And now he's pardoning people who the justice system charged, in many cases found guilty of serious, some cases violent crimes. He would argue because a weaponized justice system mistreated them.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
But by many people's lights, what he's really saying is their crimes don't matter. And this brings me back to what Peter said. Their crimes don't matter because they were done in his name.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
On Monday evening, the families and friends of January 6th rioters celebrated Trump's pardons outside a jail in Washington, where several convicted rioters remain imprisoned.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
In some cases, Trump's pardons resulted in the immediate release of rioters. A spokesperson for Enrique Tarrio, a former leader of the Proud Boys who was sentenced to 22 years in prison for his role in the assault on the Capitol, said that Tarrio had walked out of a federal prison in Louisiana on Monday afternoon as a free man. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
In his final act as president, Joe Biden issued a wave of preemptive pardons to those who fear that President Trump will prosecute them over the next four years. The pardons were given to members of Biden's own family, including his brothers. Every member of the congressional committee that investigated January 6th, including its vice chairwoman, Liz Cheney,
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
and the government's lead scientist during the COVID pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci. In a statement, Biden said that while he believes in the justice system, quote, these are exceptional circumstances. Following Trump's swearing-in ceremony, Biden boarded a military plane bound for California, where he was expected to begin a vacation as a private citizen and a former president.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
My colleague, Peter Baker, on the message Trump sent in his inaugural address. And Jonathan Swan on the actions Trump took during his first hours in office. It's Tuesday, January 21st. Peter, thank you for coming in the studio. It's nice to be here with you in person. I don't think I've ever done this in person with you. I don't think I've ever done this in person with you either.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Today's episode was produced by Claire Tennesketter, Aastha Chaturvedi, and Will Reed. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Mark George, contains original music by Dan Powell, Mary Lozano, and Sophia Landman, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. Special thanks to Afim Shapiro. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Aren't you glad you're here? Yes. You're here for a day of history. It is.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Exactly. Because I got to talk to you in person. Peter, set the scene for us inside the Capitol Rotunda as Donald Trump prepares to deliver this inaugural speech.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
So describe the speech itself once Trump begins to deliver it.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Just explain that for those who may not remember the reference to the first inaugural.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Double socked, thermal underweared, two hats, because we're going to spend a lot of this day outside. There it is. Yeah, oh, that's a beautiful view. We're standing about a football field and a half away from the US Capitol. I am staring at the dome. And because it is so bone-chillingly cold, the inauguration, which is normally held outside, facing the National Mall,
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
What this speech did not contain was an overture to those who didn't support him. We think of inaugural speeches as almost dutifully containing language that says, to those who didn't vote for me, I offer you this message. Exactly. That was not in this speech.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Which is, of course, rolling back a very specific President Biden policy. Exactly.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Within that list, Peter, of things that Trump says he wants to do that made this feel State of the Union-ish, as you said, what struck me was how much it strayed from Trump's traditional isolationism, right? It was expansionist, right?
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
This has been moved inside the Capitol, in the rotunda, which we're looking at. And at this very moment, President-elect Trump and President Biden are at the White House. They're having tea. They're going to come in a motorcade together to the Capitol. And we're looking at what we think is the exact spot they're going to arrive. And it's very, very heavily fortified.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
The implication being perhaps by force.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
He's going to plant a U.S. flag, he claimed, on Mars, which is about as ambitious an expansion vision as I think any president has ever had.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
So taken all together, how do you think we should understand this speech as a whole and
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
In that sense, this did not feel... simply like a speech articulating a restoration, because that would suggest I'm back just like I was before. What it sounds like he's saying is, I am back, I am better prepared, and I am capable now of transcending what my first presidency was. And as you said earlier, Peter, it is about me. And this term will be big and ambitious because I am.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
And the country in his telling is kind of him, and he is the country. And they are so fused in this speech that it's hard to imagine him tolerating the country not meeting his expectations because he and his expectations of the country, they're all so bound up.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
We're surrounded by these tall metal gates. There are dozens of police officers.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
So it is around 9.30 a.m. on Inauguration Day, and we are headed to the Capitol. And as you can perhaps hear through the microphone... Hopefully not if I do my job well. It is really, really windy and very cold, so we are layered to the hilt. like five layers.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
So now that Donald Trump has been sworn in and delivered his inaugural address, we wanted to head out into the streets of downtown Washington where thousands of his supporters are milling around to understand how they are feeling now that it is official that he is president again.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
Where did you guys come from?
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
And how are you feeling right now, like in a word, now that it's official that he's president again?
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
What's the most important thing you want to see him get done? Maybe in the next few hours through executive orders, but definitely like in the next couple of days or weeks.
The Daily
Pardons and Populism: Trump’s First Day Back in the White House
This is the motorcade. It's the longest motorcade I've ever seen. Dozens and dozens of vehicles. And it is working its way to the eastern gate of the Capitol to deposit the two presidents inside the building for the inauguration. And Donald Trump is going to be sworn in as the 47th president of the United States. From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Then... There's a contrasting view articulated by Democratic Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut who says, right now, you have to swing at every pitch. He said, Trump floods the zone every hour of every day. We have to do the same thing. So those seem like the two contrasting arguments on tactics.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And I want you all to help me understand the basis for both of those and also which one seems to be prevailing in the first two weeks or so of the Trump presidency.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And you're watching that debate play out in Congress, which you cover really closely and where it would seem Democrats have one of their major levers of power, which is the bully pulpit of Congress opposing cabinet nominees from the president. if they want to, or deciding that the right move in this moment is to work with Trump on issues like immigration. So what are you seeing?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Yes, you can. That was great. And Shane. Hello. Yep, sorry, Reid.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Oh, yes. Well, Shane, thank you for being here with me in the New York studio. All three of you have been very closely covering the story of the Democratic Party in this moment. And you know this well. Whenever a party loses a presidential election, we speak of it wandering through the wilderness.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
I want to talk for just a moment about the message that these Democrats, now determined to swing at more pitches, are articulating. This week, we saw them try to pick their first real foil. And as you're starting to hint at, folks here, it wasn't as much Trump as it was Elon Musk.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And in some of the protests that Democratic lawmakers held across Washington over the past few days, they decided to train their fury at him. Let me just play a clip from somebody whose name has come up in this conversation, Senator Chris Murphy.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Why approach this torrent of activity from the White House through the person of Elon Musk, Shane? And does that seem effective?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Right. You mentioned USAID. Reid, when I think of USAID and Democratic lawmakers standing in front of it and saying that something is wrong when the Trump administration cuts spending to the United States Agency for International Development, it makes me wonder if...
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
the Democrats do need to resolve that debate over what went wrong in this last election because foreign aid, which is what USAID is most known for, is not a top priority for voters. And so it looked to some like the party was doing what it did over the past few years and not in a good way. It was speaking to its progressive base, defending the status quo on foreign aid.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
When a party loses a presidential race and both chambers of Congress, we speak of that party as being in an especially dark wilderness. And when you lose the presidency and both chambers of Congress and the new president of the opposing party takes 300 executive actions that undo everything your party has ever stood for, I don't really know that there is a phrase for it. Do you have one in mind?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
That is perhaps how you get the... activists left motivated, but those images circulate across the country, and do they not do the party any favors?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Mm-hmm. I want to now turn to something that was happening in Washington that I believe one of you raised a little bit earlier in this conversation that seems extremely well-timed. The Democratic National Committee met just outside Washington to make what feels like one of the most important big decisions about the party's identity since the election.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And it feels like that would be very informed by the conversation we're having here. It was going to choose its next chairperson. My question to you, Reid and Shane, because I know you were both there, was did it reveal anything about these debates we've been discussing here about nature of the problem, nature of the solution for Democrats? The short answer is no, it did not.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
It feels like the question of the party's identity so clearly not being resolved in this moment in a major way is likely to be resolved most clearly when the party begins to coalesce around a future leader. I wonder how much we're getting a feel for who the party's next avatar might be in the crucible of this Trump blitzkrieg moment.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Annie, what are you seeing? Because it seems like the loudest voices are in Congress right now, even if the next Democratic nominee might not be someone in Congress.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
I have one final question. Does the future of the Democratic Party at this moment mean or even require former Vice President Kamala Harris standing up and saying, it's not me?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
All right. Well, with that incredible, obscure, helpful bit of historical context, I'd like to thank the three of you, Annie, Reed, Shane. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
President Trump signed an executive order seeking to ban transgender women and girls from participating in women's sports by denying federal funding to any schools that allow it.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And... The White House walked back Trump's surprise proposal to seize control of Gaza and permanently relocate the two million Palestinians who live there after it was forcefully rejected by the Arab world.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Instead, White House officials, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, reframed Trump's offer as a plan for the U.S. to merely oversee Gaza's reconstruction and insisted that he would not commit U.S. troops to the territory, as his original plan seemed to require.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Even more effed than the previous effed. OK, so I want to start by talking about the kind of soul searching that the Democratic Party is doing and whether that soul searching has started to arrive at any kind of consensus about what exactly the party's problems are. are and how systemic and deep those problems are. From a distance, it doesn't look like there's a consensus.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
At the White House, the president showed up for the swearing-in ceremony of his new attorney general, Pam Bondi, and suggested that in her role as the nation's top law enforcement official and leader of the Justice Department, traditionally a nonpartisan job, Bondi would take a dim view of Democrats.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko, Anna Foley, Diana Nguyen, and Olivia Nat. It was edited by Patricia Willans and Lexi Diao, contains original music by Diane Wong, Marian Lozano, and Roe Nymisto, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And it sounds like Shane's describing a split between those who think, look, the math, look at the House. It's tactical. Our message couldn't have been that bad if we almost retained control of the House of Representatives.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
But I also think it's important to note that we're not completely in the wilderness, right? This was not some election where Trump won by 20 points. It was a close election.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Reid, I want to put something to you since both Shane and Annie have been giving voice to the let's not freak out Democratic point of view in this moment. I want you to contemplate the case for a freak out, okay? This was something written by one of the three of you, and here's what it says. Democrats who share the bleak outlook— for their future.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
See statistical signs of the party's decline everywhere. Blue states are ceding population to red states. Voter registration figures are mostly headed in the wrong direction for the Democrats. More Americans are identifying with the GOP than with Democrats. And Democrats lost ground in this last election among core constituencies including lower income, Latino, and younger voters.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
as President Trump swept every battleground state. That's the case for freaking out. And Shane, that was your sentence, your paragraph. It seems like a pretty strong case for freaking out if you're the Democratic Party.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
I mean, let's talk about that point you're raising, the origins of the Democrats' problems. If you're inclined to think that this is an existential crisis moment for the party, it makes sense to ask the question, what exactly went wrong? Reid, you're pointing to
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
the observation that Biden's weaknesses as a candidate and party leaders' decision to not ask him to step aside earlier might be a factor. But when we ask the question of what went wrong, it seems like that might be a very narrow reading of things. And Shane, I want to ask you about something that Congressman Pat Ryan from upstate New York says about the Democratic Party.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
He's not talking about whether Joe Biden stayed in the race too long and Democrats, you know, weren't eyes wide open about his health and his various problems. He says that the Democratic brand, overall, is so weak at this point that the only way Democrats like him can win is by running against the Democratic brand, which, of course, is not a great strategy if you're a Democrat.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
So I want to broaden the conversation to what someone like a Congressman Pat Ryan says are deeper problems with the party's identity, ideology, and its relationship to the voters.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. today, how the Democratic Party is navigating the dominance of President Trump, and reckoning with the reality that more and more voters are souring on its message. I spoke with three of my colleagues, politics reporters Shane Goldmacher and Reid Epstein, and congressional correspondent Annie Carney. It's Thursday, February 6th.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And Shane, I want to bring that up with you because I think one of the questions that a proper soul-searching exercise might lead to among Democrats is the idea that the Democratic Party – and I want your feedback on this based on your reporting – has allowed its coalition, the many fragments of it, activists especially, to push the entire party and its brand toward a less recognizable place than the Democratic Party of 15 or 20 years ago.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
A party that, for example, speaks – of undocumented immigrants as not requiring any level of criminal punishment or justice if they cross the border illegally, which Kamala Harris said in 2020 as a Democratic candidate, talks about diversity as a vital goal, sometimes in ways that...
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
talks about diversity and DEI as hugely important to the identity of the party in the country, endorses things like medical interventions for trans youth. I'm generalizing here, but a party that talks about those things in that ways, is it overly beholden not to a broad cross-section of the electorate, but to the loudest voices in its coalition?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
What you're pointing to read is what I think explains why the party can't quite make up its mind as it does this soul-searching and thinking about the nature of its problems about whether this is a moment for revolution or caution because it looks at what happened in those congressional races and says, we didn't do horribly.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And it looks at these issues sometimes in isolation and says they stand up okay on their own. So maybe we're not a party in crisis. And so that debate has not been resolved. And we're going to go take a break.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
And when we come back, we're going to talk about the next important debate that flows very naturally from this one, which is what should the party's tactics be in this moment, especially if it hasn't made up its mind about its soul-searching. So we'll be right back. Okay, welcome back. Annie, Reid, Shane.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Where we left off was with a Democratic Party that has not firmly established the nature of the problem, which in theory makes it pretty hard to come up with a set of tactics for how to conduct itself. But the president and his blitz of activity has required the party to make a set of decisions about how to respond. So I want to talk about that. It feels like the party is having a—
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
split personality on the question of whether to be a party of protest in this moment or a party of waiting and seeing what the country's reaction to Trump will be. So I want to first play a clip from Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, the minority leader in the House, who is taking the don't overreact approach. Let me just play that for you guys.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
So, friends, welcome to The Roundtable. Reid and Annie, thank you for making the trek over to the Washington studio. Good to have you. Hi, Michael.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today. For many, the presidency of Jimmy Carter, who died yesterday at the age of 100, has become synonymous with failure. But as my colleague Peter Baker explains... The very qualities that hurt Carter as president were the foundation of a post-presidency that has both redeemed and rewritten his legacy. It's Monday, December 30th.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
But, of course, there's another moment, a final chapter of this presidency that's just as defining as the Camp David Accords and that is remembered for generations to come. So tell us about that.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
What is your understanding of why President Carter would make this hostage crisis, which, of course, looks terrible for any president. It's a hostage crisis. Why does he decide to make it so central to his presidency in this moment? Why? not basically put it in the background.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
So what does Carter do to try to free these hostages and turn this test into a success?
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Right, and because he is so fixated on this, and as a result, the media is so fixated on this, that failure becomes a kind of political disaster.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
And of course, unfortunately for Carter, he is up for re-election that same year.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Peter, it's almost as if the Iranians, having already contributed to Carter's re-election loss, want to further humiliate him even after that defeat.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
It feels complicated though, right, Peter? Because as you explained a little bit earlier, the idea of Jimmy Carter in 1976, when he's first running as an outsider, after all these excesses, Watergate and Vietnam, was indisputably... alluring, the kind of smaller version of The Office. But then it seems the reality of Jimmy Carter turned out to be less appealing.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Well, just explain that. What about his post-presidency shows us that this is who Carter was?
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Over the next week, the body of former President Carter is expected to be taken by motorcade from his home in Plains, Georgia to Atlanta, where he will lie in repose at the Carter Center. After that, he will be flown to Washington, where he will lie in state at the U.S. Capitol, before a formal funeral at the National Cathedral.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Per Carter's wishes, he will be interred back in Georgia at a simple family plot. We'll be right back.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Investigators are trying to determine what caused a South Korean passenger plane to skid across a runway on Sunday morning and crash into a barrier, killing nearly all 181 people on board. It was one of the deadliest aviation disasters in years. Shortly before the crash, the control tower at the airport warned of a possible bird strike, and soon after, the plane's pilots issued a mayday.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Today's episode was produced by Carlos Prieto and Sydney Harper, with help from Alexandra Lee Young and Will Reed. It was edited by Lisa Chow and Devin Taylor, fact-checked by Susan Lee, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Dan Powell, Rowan Emisto, and Sophia Landman, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Right, a kind of president who in some ways is... unpresidential, like a president who, despite holding the most powerful office in the country, is constantly projecting humility.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Peter, you are a White House reporter who has covered the last five presidents. You're also a historian of the presidency itself. And in those roles, I'm curious how you've been thinking about the life and now the death of Jimmy Carter.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Right, I really can't. I mean, but it very much seems to reflect that campaign promise, Peter, that Jimmy Carter would never lie to the American people. In some ways, this is a rather extraordinary dose of truth.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
So this reset that Jimmy Carter has attempted to undertake with those meetings at Camp David, with this speech, with this theoretical cleansing of his cabinet, it is all very much seeming to backfire.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Well, talk about that. This unusual man and his unusual presidency. And what, in your mind, is the first chapter of that story that we should understand? Right.
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Right. And the reason it's called the malaise speech is not just because it was about American malaise, because it seemed to embody Jimmy Carter's malaise as president, right?
The Daily
The Life and Legacy of Jimmy Carter
Peter, after all these domestic stumbles, tell us about this success that Carter has overseas.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Over the past few weeks, the resistance of a single Republican senator has threatened to derail Donald Trump's controversial choice of Pete Hegseth to run the Department of Defense. Today... Karin Demersian and Jonathan Swan with the story of how Trump and his allies ensured that that senator's resistance quickly went away.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Right. And the message that they're sending her via this onslaught from all sides seems to be, Senator Ernst, if you like being in the U.S. Senate as a Republican from Iowa, if you don't want us to find someone to run against you, if you don't want your phones ringing off the hook and our...
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Trump MAGA base turning against you, you should probably just find a way to get behind Pete Hexeth as Secretary of Defense, because then all this will probably go away.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
So how does Ernst respond to all of this?
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
So this ends up becoming a pretty extraordinary demonstration of the president-elect's power.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
On Sunday, the Republican campaign to rally support for Pete Hegseth continued. Senator Lindsey Graham, a close Trump ally, said that Hegseth has agreed to release the woman who accused him of sexual assault from a confidential legal settlement. That, Graham told NBC News, would allow his accuser to come forward publicly with her allegations and let senators evaluate whether or not they are true.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Here's what else you need to know today.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Over the weekend, South Korea's legislature voted to impeach the country's leader, President Yoon Seok-yool, as punishment for his decision to impose martial law on the country. The vote, which immediately strips Yoon of his presidential powers, was met with cheers in the streets of South Korea's capital.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Yoon's martial law decree, issued on December 3, lasted only six hours, but it threw South Korea's democracy into chaos and triggered massive public protests. Yoon's fate now rests with South Korea's Constitutional Court, which will decide within the next six months whether to reinstate or formally remove him from office.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko, Luke Vanderplug, and Asta Chaturvedi, with help from Nina Feldman. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Devin Taylor, contains original music by Dan Powell, Pat McCusker, and Marion Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderland. That's it for the day. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Well, just explain that. Tell us about Senator Joni Ernst and how her career ends up so at odds with Hexeth.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Well, so given her role as a Republican leader on all of these issues, issues that do not seem to align with Hegseth's biography and these accusations that he faces, what is Ernst's response to Hegseth being tapped to run the military?
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
Yesterday, you had a significant meeting with Pete Hegseth, our former colleague. And right now.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
It's Monday, December 16th. Karin, in your role as a congressional reporter, you have been closely tracking the fate of Trump's pick to run the U.S. military, Pete Hegseth, a pick that was controversial from the start but has become only more controversial over the past couple of weeks.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
So quite understandably, this senator who has led her party on all these issues like sexual assault is deciding that these accusations against him might be disqualifying. And she's saying so on of all occasions. networks, Fox News, which she and everyone else in the Republican Party know that the president-elect watches so closely.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
After the break, my colleague Jonathan Swan on how Ernst's resistance triggered a MAGA swarm that has brought Hegseth back from the brink.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
So, Jonathan, as Hegseth's path becomes messier and messier, and he's kind of just flapping in the wind there with senators like Joni Ernst saying she can't get behind him, what's happening inside Trump world?
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
And we should just say that is surprising, not just because it means Trump is writing off Pete Hegseth, but because he has hated DeSantis. I mean, DeSantis went against him. They destroyed him in that campaign. That is a very unexpected alternative.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
So what might have begun as a bunch of people around Trump kind of revolting against the idea of Ron DeSantis as the next Secretary of Defense morphs into this larger objection to the idea that Trump would back down again on one of his picks for the Cabinet and show weakness in a way that might completely shape his presidency. Exactly.
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
So what does it actually look like once Team Trump decides we are not going to back down and actually we're going to go on the offense here?
The Daily
Pete Hegseth Was Toast. The MAGA Swarm Came to His Rescue.
And what does it look like for Senator Ernst to be the focus of this campaign?
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Big tech's biggest names are throwing their weight behind Donald Trump in the biggest possible way, first as candidate and now as president-elect. Today, business reporter Aaron Griffith on what one tech billionaire's journey from top-tier Democratic donor to Trump advisor reveals about the growing MAGAfication of Silicon Valley.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
We'll be right back. Aaron, talk about this courtship from the other side, because so far what you're describing from Mark Andreessen is really a deepening frustration with the left, with the Biden administration, rather than any kind of deep kinship with Donald Trump.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Right. It sounds like what he's telling Andreessen, and it sounds like Andreessen wants to hear it, is that Trump is prepared to restore the deal, as Andreessen would call it. You do your thing. I'm here to cheer you on and celebrate and help.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
So Andreessen creates something of a permission structure for others in the Valley to say, I, too, support Trump.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Mm hmm. In thinking about the story that you have told here and the journey that Marc Andreessen has gone on, it's pretty clear that there are two major elements here. One is that in his mind, the Democratic Party failed him and failed tech, both culturally and financially. And the second component is that Trump, in his mind, meets...
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
the tech industry where it is, both culturally and financially. And in that sense, it's just not all that complicated. But what stands out, to me at least, is that this ends up being the story of the Democratic Party seeming to forfeit what had been a very long and seemingly fruitful relationship with these innovators and leaders of tech. And when we think about the result of the 2024 election...
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
I think quite naturally, you know, we think about the fact that the vote went to Trump and that once again he made all these gains in various constituencies. I hadn't really thought of it as an election in which he had also made gains in the constituency of Silicon Valley. But that is clearly one of the places that he made very unexpected inroads.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Well, now that we understand the depth of Silicon Valley support for Trump, and now that Trump is about to take office, how much sway do we think people like Marc Andreessen, because they were out early and publicly for Trump, will have over him as president?
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Because so far, it feels like it's the tech industry in some of its policy announcements and its donations to Trump's inauguration that have been making the concessions to Trump rather than Trump necessarily making any concessions to Silicon Valley.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
You know, it strikes me, Aaron, that Andreessen's animating premise here and really the heart of his political evolution is is his belief that this deal he articulated makes sense, still makes sense. But the reality, I think, for many is that the deal he wants to bring back, the one he felt Biden walked away from, the one he thinks Trump will honor, was from a different era, right?
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
When tech was small, it was the underdog. You could argue it needed a long leash to grow and thrive. But that's not the story of tech now. It is huge and hugely powerful. It affects all of us, in many cases for good, in many ways.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
For bad, take kids' social media or the anti-competitive behavior of tech giants that's laid out in federal antitrust lawsuits, or take the risks of artificial intelligence or crypto. We watched the biggest crypto exchange explode and billions of dollars just disappear. And therefore, many would argue, tech does require some kind of meaningful government oversight.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
And so what he's asking for seems to be a world where the government's approach to tech The deal no longer really matches what tech is today. And yet what he seems to want from Trump and people like Andreessen seem to want from this administration is a world where the terms of this deal don't change, even though the industry quite obviously has.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
On Friday, Silicon Valley's alienation from Biden and growing fondness for Trump continued to be on vivid display. At a news conference, Biden denounced the decision by Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg to end the company's system of fact-checking, calling it, quote, really shameful. Meanwhile, Zuckerberg traveled to Mar-a-Lago for his second in-person meeting with Trump since the election.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Over the weekend, the death toll from the wildfires across greater Los Angeles reached 24 people, with many more still missing. As winds briefly calmed, firefighters made some progress in fighting two of the biggest fires. As of Sunday night, they have contained 11% of the Palisades Fire and 27% of the Eaton Fire.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
But forecasters expect another round of strong winds to return today and tomorrow, which may only intensify and spread the fires and force the planes that are fighting them from the sky to be grounded. And Jack Smith, the special counsel who brought two federal prosecutions against President-elect Trump, has resigned.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Smith was forced to drop both of his cases, one charging Trump with mishandling classified documents, the other of plotting to overturn the 2020 election under a Justice Department policy that bars the pursuit of prosecutions against a sitting president. Today's episode was produced by Jessica Chung, Mujzadi, and Nina Feldman, with help from Eric Krupke and Mary Wilson.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
It was edited by Lisa Chow, Patricia Willans, and Mark George, and fact-checked by Susan Lee. It contains original music by Marion Lozano and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Right. Roughly translated, he's saying we are doing this because of Trump's victory. More or less. And the question that that raises right away is, is this opportunism? Is this big tech and Silicon Valley doing what a lot of profitable industries do when there's a new president, which is... seek friendly relationships with the new boss? Or is this something deeper?
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Is this the case of big tech's true political identity emerging from behind what may have been a cloak of liberalism?
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
So how does Andreessen go from reliable, normie Democrat to supporter and now advisor to Donald Trump?
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
You have been covering startups and Silicon Valley for a long time. And you know as well as anyone that by reputation, Silicon Valley is seen as a liberal bastion, a place where progressive thinking is nursed and promoted. But over the past decade, year, especially during the presidential campaign, it really did feel like Silicon Valley's conservative self began to emerge.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
So in his mind, the deal had been honored for much of the history of Silicon Valley and much of his own very successful career until suddenly people start to, as you said, pick apart, question, challenge everything about the people who are at the center of the deal, these entrepreneurs, these founders, people like Mark Zuckerberg, and suddenly they can only do wrong.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
Right. And I remember Facebook in particular took that very personally and they were upset about it.
The Daily
Big Tech’s Big Bet on Trump
So at first, he's watching with some alarm as... Tech companies, primarily from the left, are being pushed toward a form of what he regards as censorship. And then he's watching as a new administration comes in that, based on its appointments, seems outright hostile to big tech's business interests.
The Daily
The Year in Music
Hey, it's Michael. Today, our coverage of the year in arts and in culture continues with guest host Melissa Kirsch speaking to Times critics, reporters, and editors. Take a listen.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Over the past 48 hours, President Trump banned DEI programming in the federal government, punished three former aides by taking away their security detail, and celebrated the release of hundreds of January 6th rioters and planners —
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
It's a pretty extraordinary, David, reimagining of the rule of law. Is that perhaps too delicate a phrasing?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
What exactly, Zolan, had the policy been, and what has Trump just changed it to?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
I just want to make explicit what I think you're saying. There are now freed loyalists of Trump who owe their freedom to him, you're suggesting, who may now operate distinctly in his defense in whatever way they think necessary.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
And when, Maggie, those Republican lawmakers have said something about these pardons, they've used a phrase over and over again. It felt like they had all gotten together in a room and decided on the phrase. The phrase was, we want to look forward, not backward. And yet, Zolan, in one important respect, congressional Republicans do want to look backward.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
It's the completion of the rewriting of that history. Will Congress, Maggie, officially? I mean, is this going to happen? Is Congress going to investigate the investigation of January 6th?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Well, you have queued up my final question to you all, which is about the pardons that outgoing President Biden issued for his family members. And as you just said, Maggie, for members of the January 6th committee and for Dr. Anthony Fauci and Mark Milley, I want to read you something about that our esteemed colleague Ezra Klein wrote about that decision. This is what he said.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Quote, the Biden of 2020 would have done none of this. In key cases, like the family pardons, he said he would not do this, and then he did. This feels in its own way like Biden's submission to the new regime, by which Ezra means Trump. The powers of the presidency are whatever the president is allowed to get away with.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Thank you very much. In an interview a couple of nights ago with Sean Hannity, Donald Trump noted who outgoing President Biden did not give a pardon to.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
He noted that Biden did not give a pardon to himself. If you look at it, it all had to do with him.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
I'm going to point out what listeners may recognize as a bit of an irony of Trump accusing relatives of a president of making money off of his name.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Well, Maggie and David and Zolan, thank you very much.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Thank you. Thank you, Michael. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday, a federal judge temporarily blocked Trump's executive order seeking to end birthright citizenship, calling it, quote, blatantly unconstitutional.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Trump's order, signed on his first day in office, seeks to end a right to citizenship for children born in the United States that was first established in the 14th Amendment. In his ruling, the judge was unsparing, saying the fact that any lawyer ever believed that Trump's executive order was legal boggles the mind. And the U.S.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Senate appears poised to confirm Pete Hegseth as the next secretary of defense. In a 51-49 vote on Thursday, Republicans voted to break a Democratic filibuster aimed at blocking his confirmation.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Democrats have tried, so far unsuccessfully, to persuade Republicans to reject Hegseth, citing a new statement from his former sister-in-law, who described him as frequently intoxicated and abusive toward his second wife. Hegseth has denied those claims, and his confirmation is expected as soon as tonight. Today's episode was produced by Olivia Nat, Will Reed, and Carlos Prieto.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
It was edited by Rachel Quester and Devin Taylor, contains original music by Diane Wong and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
I want to make sure I understand how widespread DEI programs and personnel have been in the government to understand the impact of these executive orders. The executive orders and actions that attempt to root it out, essentially to forbid it, and the ones that attempt to encourage employees to report on issues essentially what's now banned attempt at enforcing DEI.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Who among you has a sense of just how much government we're talking about here?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Today, I talked through all of that with three of my Times colleagues, White House reporters Maggie Haberman, Zolan Kano-Youngs, and David Sanger. It's Friday, January 24th. Friends, welcome back to The Roundtable. Maggie, Zolan, David, thank you for being here.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
I want to be sure that we meet this argument from whether it's Pete Hegseth or Donald Trump or Elon Musk on its own terms. And I listened, David, to Pete Hegseth talk about this. The way he put it was that he wanted to be sure that standards for everyone in the military were equal, not equitable. And this is a quote. That's a very different word.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
And in his inaugural speech, what President Trump said is he would forge a society, this is a quote, that is colorblind and merit-based. What I hear them saying is that diversity as something to be prized and sought in its own right is out. What's in, they're saying, is a merit-based system in which diversity might be an outcome, but it's never the goal.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Clearly what stood out to many people about the way Trump approached this whole issue was the element of Tell us about colleagues who are doing this thing when they shouldn't be. To some, it had kind of shades of McCarthyism. Rat out your colleagues.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
And, Maggie, you have spent a fair amount of time over the past few days reporting on a related subject, which is the ways in which the president and those around him are starting to somewhat systematically – target people they don't want to be in this administration and even former Trump officials who they see as disloyal, who they want to begin to take perks away from?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
You're saying these loyalty tests are very arbitrary. It's making it hard to hire. And it's based on whoever is kind of up or down in Trump's mind at any given moment.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Which former officials, and I'm assuming this relates to the question of loyalty, what did they do to make Trump feel they were disloyal?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Thank you. Last time the three of you were on the show, your locations were incredibly exotic. Mar-a-Lago, Italy... Where were you, Maggie? Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. Today we join you from two boring studios on the East Coast. We are taping this on Thursday afternoon at the end of week one of the Trump presidency, and what a week it has been.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Right. I mean, taken together, the moves on DEI, especially the encouragement to turn in colleagues who are still doing DEI work now that it's forbidden, the firings, the removal of security for former Trump officials who are facing real threats but are seen as disloyal. I was about to ask you what it all adds up to, but I think that would be an abdication of my role as synthesizer.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
I think what it clearly adds up to is dissent will not be remotely tolerated in this second Trump term.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
I don't think it's a stretch to say that in record time President Trump has begun to remake both the federal government and arguably American society in his image in just a few days. And I want to start with late-breaking policy that we haven't covered on the show from the White House, and that is around DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
And you're saying that it's sort of in Trump's DNA to ferret out those who would in any way get in his way, kind of stem to root, root to stem.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Okay, welcome back. I want to turn now to presidential pardons. In the days since President Trump issued these blanket pardons and commutations, we've gotten a sense of just how blanket they actually are because three of the people who were given the longest prison sentences for their role in the assault on the Capitol have come out of prison.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Enrique Tarrio, ex-leader of the Proud Boys, who had been sentenced to 22 years for seditious conspiracy. Stuart Rhodes of the Oath Keepers, sentenced to 18 years for the same charge. Joe Biggs, sentenced to 17 years for that charge of seditious conspiracy, which is pretty much the most serious crime you can be accused of committing against your own government.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: Bans, Purges and Retribution
Maggie, do you think Trump knew who was going to be released when he issued these blanket commutations and pardons, given what we're now learning?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Maggie, I want to play a brief clip of how Donald Trump has been experiencing this ring kissing that Andrew has just described. He was asked about it and this is what he said.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
And unlike many of the threatened partial or full government shutdowns that have happened over the past couple of years, this one kind of came out of nowhere, right? Does that feel like an accurate statement? Who here wants to jump in? Katie?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Hmm. Biden, the aberration. Trump, the second term president. Correct. Just thinking about where we started this conversation with a shutdown. These executives, Andrew, who are currying Trump's favor, who are showing up at Mar-a-Lago for dinner, when they see someone like Elon Musk do what he just did, do they think to themselves, oh, look, we really can have tons of influence here. Wow.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
We can genuinely change policy if we get in early enough and then make the call later on.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
That's interesting, especially when you consider that one of the things that happened between then, 2016, and now is January 6th. And yet, you're saying less stigma. The favor occurring that has stood out to many of us in the news media over the past week, I think, quite logically, because we're somewhat self-absorbed, is the ring kissing from media companies.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
And you mentioned Jeff Bezos going down there, the owner of the Washington Post. Well, what happened several weeks before the election, of course, was that at Jeff Bezos's request, the Washington Post pulled Hell Didn't Run, an editorial that was going to be endorsing Kamala Harris for president. That happened at the L.A. Times as well.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
And there's this concept emerging, a fear within the media that some major media companies are beginning to engage in something that has been dubbed anticipatory obedience. And it's in that context that we get ABC News making a pretty consequential decision to settle a defamation lawsuit filed by Trump which seemed to many to be a capitulation to Trump's efforts to intimidate the news media.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Can you just meditate on that all for just a minute Andrew?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
I think he literally said, I'm in some ways the worst person to own this newspaper.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Well, that was a Freudian slip perhaps because ABC is owned by Disney. Disney is a major corporation that might not want to be in Trump's crosshairs.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Got it. So, Andrew, given what Maggie just said, essentially that Stephanopoulos made an on-air error and that ABC didn't then correct it, and this case is moving forward, back to you saying this is complicated and perhaps should be disentangled from anything else. Related to, for example, Bezos holding an editorial back.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
and perhaps alienate many of their viewers who thought, why can't you just admit you screwed up?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
I think, Andrew, you're making a persuasive case here that we shouldn't put all these things in one bucket. They're not entirely the same, especially the ABC defamation lawsuit.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
But no matter how you slice it, this has to be seen as a victory for Donald Trump, getting ABC News to settle a lawsuit and give him, I think, $15 million for his future presidential museum, and I think another million dollars for his legal fees. So to all three of you, just to kind of close this conversation out, if you are Donald Trump,
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Taking all of this in, the ability to trigger the explosion of a government spending bill when you're not even president, all of these CEOs who were once so skeptical coming down to have dinner with you to get into your good graces, getting a major news organization to settle a defamation lawsuit, which almost never happens.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Weeks before his inauguration, President-elect Trump is pushing the federal government toward a shutdown.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
This is starting to feel like an exceptionally empowering stretch of time for Donald Trump.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Okay, well, Maggie, Katie, Andrew, thank you all for your time. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Michael.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Andrew, pick up where Katie leaves off. Elon Musk, not traditionally a participant in congressional spending bill negotiations. Why is he involved, and what exactly does he do?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Thank you, Michael. On Thursday night, the House voted down a last-minute proposal endorsed by President-elect Trump to keep the government open past Friday. Despite Trump's support, dozens of conservative Republicans opposed the plan, and nearly all House Democrats voted against it. There is now no clear path to avoiding a shutdown later tonight. We'll be right back.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
On Thursday, a French court convicted the ex-husband of Giselle Pellico and dozens of other men of raping her in a case that has shocked France and transformed Pellico into a feminist icon. Her husband, Dominique Pelico, received the maximum sentence of 20 years. The rest of the men were given sentences mostly ranging from six to nine years.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
After the verdicts were delivered, Giselle Pelico said that she was proud of her decision to open the trial up to the public and hoped that the outcome of the case might lead to a future in which men and women could live in harmony.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
A reminder, you can catch a new episode of The Interview right here tomorrow. David Marchese speaks with Jonathan Rumi about playing Jesus on the popular TV show The Chosen and the responses that Rumi gets from the show's fans.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Just describe what he did and what it ends up doing, and then Maggie will get to how Trump responds to that.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
For the reasons Katie suggested, that suddenly it's larded up with stuff?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Maggie, who's leading who by the nose here? I mean, Elon Musk does all that stuff. What does the president-elect do?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
The country's corporate titans are flocking to Mar-a-Lago to curry Trump's favor.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
OK, so, Katie, once Trump publicly agrees with Elon Musk, this is a bad bill. It should be blown up. Go back to the drawing board. What actually happens in the House that brings us to this point where it seems like we might actually have a government shutdown as of tonight at midnight or so?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Explicitly. So suddenly, on top of blowing up a bill that he and Elon Musk think are inconsistent with his efforts to make government smaller, he's suddenly now asking Congress to increase the debt ceiling. which is not very Republican and not very government efficient, right, Andrew?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
And a major media company has capitulated to Trump's legal strategy of suing those who cross him. To make sense of all of this, I gathered three of my colleagues, senior political correspondent Maggie Haberman, congressional reporter Katie Edmondson, and financial columnist and the founder of Dealbook, Andrew Ross Sorkin. It's Friday, December 20th. Everyone. Welcome to The Roundtable.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
And do it not on his watch, because it's not consistent with what he thinks of as his self-image, but on the current president's watch. But, Katie, Republicans hate voting for raising the debt ceiling, and Dems aren't going to give them a win right now, I suspect, because they don't want to give Donald Trump a win. Does that equal deadlock and therefore shutdown?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
To the degree that we think this is Elon Musk's first real exercise of raw power, even if Trump might have eventually gotten there, are we now witnessing the risk of empowering whimsical billionaires in the way that Trump is starting to do.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
I have the question, Maggie, of whether Trump assumes that because he's not yet president, a shutdown, if it happens for all the reasons that he wants it to now happen, won't be something he gets blamed for. Is that true? And is that actually pretty reasonable political thinking at this moment?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Trump benefits from this because he's really just delivering on what he said throughout the campaign he's going to do. You know, the whole point of having Doge was to carry out the promise of making government smaller and being really disruptive. What is more disruptive than before you're even president? Disrupting business as usual. So is this a very early and wise reading of the room by Trump?
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
It's going to work out pretty well for him potentially.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Katie, Maggie, Andrew, thank you all for making time for us. Thank you for having us.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
We're going to take a break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about how all of this, I think, connects to a much larger phenomenon, which is just how bound up this second Trump presidency already has become, not just with Elon Musk, but with all of corporate America. So we'll be right back. Thank you. have started to really pay homage to President-elect Trump.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
Okay, let's jump right in. We are talking to the three of you at a very live news moment, 12.33 p.m. on Thursday, with a government shutdown looming. And I mention that timing because events could change after we tape. There could, for example, be a deal to try to avert a shutdown. But I think shutdown is where we need to start this conversation.
The Daily
Ring-Kissing, Lawsuits and a Looming Shutdown
And I've come to think of this as a kind of great genuflection. Can you just give us a description of what that has looked like, the scale of it? And then I know, Maggie, you have lots of perspective on that as well from your reporting at Mar-a-Lago.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
It could be that deportations of people with no criminal records start and there's a public outcry and it gets limited. It may be that the logistics of it are just too complicated and that limits the scale of it. But if we take him at his word, he will soon declare a national emergency and begin rounding up undocumented immigrants and deporting them at a scale that's without precedent.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And so I want to understand how you, as somebody with a deportation order, and your family, how you're thinking about and planning for that possibility. What has that conversation with your husband and your two children, what has it been like?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Are you talking about the possibility of leaving the United States for Nicaragua? I mean, where are you when you're thinking about whether you're going to try to ride this out for another four years or contemplate something more dramatic?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Five years ago, we interviewed a woman who asked that we call her Herminia.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
You're worried that he will be exposed to a raid because that's an obvious place for immigration customs enforcement officials to go.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
You're worried that every time your husband calls you, he is also here without documentation. You're saying any time your phone rings during the Trump presidency, you're worried it's going to mean it's that call.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
You mentioned nightmares. Do you have a recurring nightmare about this moment?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
I mean, you just said that I'm going to stay here until I'm caught. I wonder how small you're willing to let your life become, how cautious you're willing to be. I mean, in order to have that work, are you willing to bring the shades back down? Oh, of course. Put the sign back on the door inside that tells your husband and your kids and visitors don't ever answer the door.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Home, work, work, home. Of course. No travel. No.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
I mean, that's a very small world in which to occupy.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
There may be those listening who think to themselves that you're describing a life of staying that is so circumscribed that you cannot even go to Walmart, that you cannot go to church, that your husband has to change his job. That sounds like a scenario in which it might be preferable to have some control over
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
over your life and decide when and how you leave and have the ability to pack your bags and say goodbye on your own terms rather than basically go into hiding and wait for something to happen.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Well, I remember your voice as well, and it's really nice to hear it again.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Unlike many migrants from Nicaragua, who were eventually granted protective status in the U.S., Herminia had arrived one year too late to qualify.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And you're worried that if you leave and try to control the situation, then they will leave too. And you know that will be almost automatic for them based on how they feel about you.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Because it means your daughters get to stay here too. Yes. I feel like I have to ask you this. If you don't make it through the next four years and you are deported... Would you try to come back into the United States? Would you try to do this all over again?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
That chapter of your life, the American chapter, would be over?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And dignity means not returning to a country that has deported you.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
If you end up leaving and it ends up being at the hands of deportation, is that going to change how you feel about America and about what America means?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
I'm trying to make sense of what it means to you that your American journey may end with Americans having decided that the way you feel about it is not the way they feel about you.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Well, Raminia, I want to thank you for your time. Again. And no matter where you end up, I hope that we get to speak again.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
We'll be right back. On Thursday, Israel's prime minister accused Hamas of backing away from the terms of the ceasefire deal announced a day earlier and jeopardizing the hard-fought agreement. According to Israel, Hamas has demanded changes for how Israeli troops are deployed along Gaza's border with Egypt and called for the release of, quote, "...terrorists that are unacceptable to Israel."
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And by the time we reached her, she was the subject of a deportation order.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Nevertheless, U.S. officials expressed confidence that the ceasefire would still begin as planned on Sunday. And during his confirmation hearing, former Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin, Donald Trump's pick to run the Environmental Protection Agency, was pushed to affirm the existence of climate change.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Breaking with Trump, Zeldin said that climate change was not a hoax and said he was committed to working with career employees of the EPA, many of whom remain deeply suspicious of the Trump White House.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
If you caught Monday's episode about the tech billionaire Mark Andreessen, a major figure in Silicon Valley's shift toward Donald Trump, our colleague, columnist Ross Douthat, has a new interview with Andreessen out this weekend. You can find it on the New York Times podcast, Matter of Opinion. Just search Matter of Opinion wherever you listen. Today's episode was produced by Jessica Chung.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
It was edited by Devin Taylor. Contains research assistance from Susan Lee. Original music by Alishaba Etube, Rowing Emisto, and Pat McCusker. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
In the end, she was never arrested. And today, while her two daughters are U.S. citizens, Herminia and her husband remain in the U.S. illegally, despite what she says are repeated efforts to become a legal resident.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Which means we're creating more work for you with this conversation. So thank you for making time for us. I really, really appreciate it. Nah, it's nothing. So how are you doing? How is your family? How are you?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
So a few days ago, I called Herminia back to understand what's happened to her since Trump left office and how she's now preparing for a second Trump term in which he's pledged to put the deportation of people like her at the center of his presidency. It's Friday, January 17th.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
I want to just go back and understand when we first spoke to you in 2019, you were in this very acute fear of a deportation raid coming. It felt like there was a weekend we spoke to you where it felt like it could happen at any moment. And then Trump loses, Biden wins.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And he has, at that point, been campaigning on a message of a very different approach to immigration and especially undocumented immigrants. He says it's going to be much more humane. He says he's going to roll back a lot of Trump's policies. And so I just want to understand what that felt like for you once Biden took the White House. Did it make you reevaluate your life?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And what could you do or did you do? that you weren't willing to do when Trump was president?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
The sign that said to your family, don't open the door.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
When you say you felt protected, I mean, what did you allow yourself to do, or to feel, but mostly to do, that you didn't when Trump was president? I mean, going out into the world, having certain conversations, what are some examples? Were you willing to try things like driving again and traveling again?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Your passport, which is a Nicaraguan passport? Yes. And you just figured, because this administration is not... Harmful for me.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Then you can travel, you can go wherever you want to go in the country and you'll be fine.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
What did that tell you about how Americans think about people like you?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
Well, let's turn where I think you're turning. I wonder if there's a moment when you started to realize that despite Biden's election, that America's views, American public views on immigration, especially around illegal immigration, was changing, and that that change... meant that their views had become far less sympathetic. Was there a moment where you kind of detected that?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
You're saying when border crossings started to surge at the beginning of Biden's presidency, you worried there would be a backlash?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
It sounds like it's a hard question to answer for you.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
So you could sense even among those who were undocumented themselves a frustration with what was happening under Biden because they didn't like it.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
You're saying that those who have been here for a long time like you became frustrated with Biden's humanitarian parole program because it felt like a backdoor.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
The backlash that it seems you feared would come. Eventually, of course, it feels like it did come, right? Because poll after poll, and I'm thinking, you know, 2022, 2023, early 2024, you know, polls started to show just how unhappy American voters were with how President Biden was handling immigration. Crossings hit these record highs, and across the political spectrum,
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
and we did polling here at the New York Times, we could see people saying they wanted stricter enforcement of immigration laws. They wanted deportations. Basically, more and more Americans wanted laws enforced against people like you. And I wonder how that felt.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
It sounds like it perhaps did not surprise you when Trump reemerged over the past few years as a candidate and tapped into this backlash that you had feared would come and began to arrive.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
I'm curious what it was like for you when the results came in. He not only won and won decisively, he won the community where you live so thoroughly. I mean, you live in the Miami-Dade area. And for the first time in decades, that community elected a Republican, and that was Donald Trump. And that meant that a majority Hispanic Latino community had elected a man who
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
who ran on a platform of taking on undocumented immigrants through mass deportation.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
And I mean, you said what you said about the different groups and where they're from in the country. But did it did it feel like your own community had rejected you?
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
In other words, the people in Miami-Dade who you talked to after the election said, don't worry, this is not about you.
The Daily
Waiting for the Immigration Raids, Again
We'll be right back. Within the next few days, once he becomes president again, Donald Trump may order and perhaps even begin to undertake the mass deportations that he has talked about throughout his campaign. And we don't know what they would look like. It may be that in the end, as people in your community have said, he ends up just focusing on those with criminal records.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
So you're saying if Biden can't protect everything he's done, what he can do is drive a wedge between Trump and his supporters. That's right. And leave him in a pretty tough spot.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Good. And Zolan, we are talking to you from Italy, where President Biden was supposed to be but had to cancel because of the Los Angeles wildfires. Thank you for being on. Ciao. Ciao, colleagues. So we have all the geography covered here.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And this is the old trope. Journalists really like it when their presidents hold news conferences. But I'm hearing you all say this is not just journalistic bellyaching about access to the president. This is about what seems like either a conscious or unconscious decision by the president to not hold the office in the fullest way possible publicly as he could at the end of his presidency.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
You know where I'm going, David. Yeah.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Well, let's talk about what he did do in that interview. I mean, the elements of the interview with USA Today that ultimately seemed to break through were the fact that Biden— among other things, is considering issuing preemptive pardons that would protect potential targets of a criminal investigation by the incoming Trump administration.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
We've talked so much on the show about Trump DOJ's pretty much open commitment to going after certain of his rivals and enemies. It was interesting that Biden came out and said, I am thinking about doing this. Do we know who might be at the top of that list for – preemptive pardons? And do they want them?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Because getting a preemptive pardon from the president suggests that you might have done something wrong.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And as always, we begin with the caveat that we are recording this at a very specific time around 115 on Thursday because the news could change before we run this. And in fact, we know it will change because the Supreme Court is about to make a major ruling at the request of President-elect Trump. Maggie, can you walk us through that request from President-elect Trump?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Biden also made a fascinating admission in this conversation with USA Today, and it was this. Although he believes he could have beaten Trump had he stayed in the race, which we'll never really know the answer to, he said he's unsure, he acknowledged an uncertainty that he would have made it through a second term. That's a big thing to acknowledge, Zolan.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
David, is that an admission of irresponsibility on Biden's part? You've covered this presidency for its entirety. To suggest that you might not be able to fulfill the obligations of President of the United States, Commander-in-Chief for a full term, but that you were determined to do it anyway, it borders on – raising serious questions about judgment.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Before or after you decided not to run.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
David, this does remind me that you are basically the Forrest Gump of presidential news conferences. Totally true. Which news conference did you not ask the question?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
I want to end, my friends, on a scene that has just played out. A somber one in Washington at the National Cathedral. Biden was there. So was Donald Trump and all of our living former presidents. This was the funeral, of course, of former President Jimmy Carter. I'm curious what stood out to all of you about the ceremony. I know you're busy.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
You might not have been able to watch the funeral in its entirety. But there were several moments that I think a number of our colleagues are seizing on for their symbolism and their significance.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
January 6th might have spelled Mike Pence's death at the hands of people rioting in the name of Donald Trump. He rose to shake Trump's hand.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Exactly. David, I want to end with a clip of President Biden's eulogy to Jimmy Carter. I think by the time we're done playing it, you'll understand why I chose it. Let me just play it for you.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And Zolan and David, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Michael. Thanks, Michael. On Thursday night, the Supreme Court denied Trump's request to stop his criminal sentencing in the New York City hush money case. The decision all but ensures that Trump's sentencing will proceed as planned later today.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
The justices noted that Trump faces no jail time and can still appeal his conviction through traditional legal means. We'll be right back.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
On Thursday, officials in Los Angeles said that the largest of the city's five wildfires, the Palisades Fire, has now damaged or destroyed thousands of buildings and continues to burn out of control.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
In a worrying sign for firefighters, forecasters expected winds to pick up on Thursday night, with wind speeds of 20 to 30 miles per hour and gusts of up to 60 miles per hour, and warned that heavy winds could arrive again over the weekend. So far, the fires have killed at least five people, but that number is expected to rise.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And during his state funeral on Thursday, former President Jimmy Carter was remembered as a humble peanut farmer who rose to the heights of power and used that power to seek out justice and peace.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
In eulogy after eulogy, friends, advisors, and Carter's grandson, Jason Carter, recalled just how much the former president and his late wife, Rosalyn, had embraced a life of modesty.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
After the funeral, Carter's body was flown by military jet to his hometown in Georgia for a private service at his local church and a burial at a family plot next to his home. Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko, Michael Simon-Johnson, and Will Reed. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Chris Haxell, contains original music by Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And what's their strongest argument, Maggie, legally for why the Supreme Court should weigh in and stop this local court case from running its course?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
During a busy week, President-elect Trump asked the Supreme Court to prevent him from being sentenced in a New York criminal case.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonder League. A reminder, you can catch a new episode of The Interview right here tomorrow. David Marchese speaks with the actor and comedian Ben Stiller about what it was like growing up as the son of comedy legends.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Fascinating. And David, what would it mean for the ruling to go either way, not just for Trump necessarily, but for the idea of the rule of law?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
David, you mentioned there was a press conference from President-elect Trump earlier this week, made a lot of news. And, Zolan, you were covering that news conference. It was at Mar-a-Lago. Zolan, just to begin with, what was this news conference supposed to be about?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
He implied that as president, he could use military force to seize control of Greenland and the Panama Canal.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And David, you were there, and you ended up asking him a question about his now repeated interest in the idea of the United States basically subsuming Canada, Greenland, and the Panama Canal. And... I want to play, David, for our listeners, the question that you asked the president-elect that basically became the exchange heard around the world. Here is what it sounded like.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
David, just explain what it is Trump is saying. He's not saying all that much, but it ends up making a ton of news.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
And he overshadowed a sitting president who is using his final days in office to try to Trump-proof his legacy. To make sense of all of this, I gathered three of my colleagues, senior political reporter Maggie Haberman and White House reporters David Sanger and Zolan Kano-Youngs. It's Friday, January 10th. Friends, welcome to the first Daily Roundtable of 2025. And thank you for being here.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Maggie and Zolan, let's take the president-elect at his word here. What might it look like to use – let's just use the example of military power, perhaps not to invade but to begin a campaign of intimidation to try to convince Denmark this is inevitable?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
I have a theory I wanted to run by all of you or perhaps just one of you who's willing to take it on about how Trump talks about Greenland, Panama Canal, Canada, and what may simply underlie it. And let's just put aside the argument that there's a strategic economic reason for doing it. Perhaps there very much is.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
I don't think it's controversial to say that at this moment, Americans' sense of themselves is that we're a little bit on our heels. We aren't the only superpower in the world anymore. David, you've written books about this. Many see us as a nation somewhat in decline from our heights of power. And in that context, my logic...
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
has been, the idea of expansion, even if it's just an idea, is enormously appealing in this moment. It's like a return to manifest destiny, westward ho. You know, we have bought states and land in the past. We bought Alaska from Russia. I looked it up right before this conversation started. And so should we just view it in that context? It's nationalism on steroids.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
I mean, Maggie, let me give you the last word on this before we go to break. Is this symbolic or based on your reporting, is this a serious, earnest undertaking that we should be watching with the carefulness that goes with the adage that when Trump says something, take it seriously?
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
We are going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about what the president, the actual sitting president, is up to right now. It's quite overshadowed by the president-elect. And understand how Biden is thinking about his final days in office. We'll be right back. Okay, Zolan, talk about what President Biden is doing in this final stretch of time he has in office.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Maggie, you are joining us from Washington. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. David, you are coming to us from Mar-a-Lago.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
Right. What you're pointing to is that Biden might sign an executive order saying that the grounds under the ocean can't be drilled. But the thing about an executive order is that it depends on who's the executive. Trump could come in and essentially roll that back, which is the case for pretty much all executive action. That's right.
The Daily
Trump 2.0: A Criminal Sentencing, Presidential Legacies, and Greenland
David, what stands out to you about these last, I guess, two weeks and days of Biden's presidency? Yeah.