Warning: This episode contains strong language.Over the past few days, a routine debate over government funding has exploded into an angry showdown over the Democrats’ identity in the Trump era, and whether their current leadership is right for the moment.Catie Edmondson, who covers Congress, and Shane Goldmacher, who covers national politics, discuss a weekend that rocked the Democratic Party.Guest: Catie Edmondson, a congressional correspondent for The New York Times.Shane Goldmacher, a national political correspondent for The New York Times.Background reading: Senator Chuck Schumer broke with his party to clear a path for a Republican spending bill that kept the government open.Young Democrats’ anger boiled over as Mr. Schumer retreated on a shutdown.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Photo: Eric Lee/The New York Times Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: What sparked the internal conflict among Democrats?
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Over the past few days, a routine debate over government funding has exploded into an angry showdown over the Democratic Party's identity in the Trump era and whether its current leadership is right for the moment.
Hey there, Katie.
Hey, Michael.
You have many options of how to spend your Sunday. Appreciate you spending it with us.
Thanks for having me.
So, Katie, pretty much from the moment that Donald Trump was inaugurated for the second term, there has been this low-grade debate playing out inside the Democratic Party about how to counter him and what Democrats can do and should do about his role. really aggressive strategy of firing thousands of government workers, shutting down agencies, circumventing Congress in the process.
And the question has been when would that internal debate really come to a head and become a public battle? And the answer, it seems, is right now. Because it all really just became a public brawl over the past few days. And that all seems to revolve around the actions of the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York.
Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, I think there was behind the scenes for weeks now a lot of quiet agonizing over how to counter the Trump administration. And that sort of quiet agonizing turned into very public anger this week. And it all burst out into the open this week when Senator Chuck Schumer made a judgment call, essentially, about the best way to combat the Trump administration right now.
And immediately that decision faced blowback from sort of all corners of the Democratic Party.
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Chapter 2: How did Chuck Schumer's decision escalate tensions?
They're beating the old guard of the Republican Party in ways that the party just didn't expect. And this anger was changing the Republican Party from within. And one of the people elected in this changing of the guard of the Republican Party was Senator Ted Cruz of Texas.
And if there's one moment that crystallizes the Tea Party's strategy during those years, it's what Ted Cruz did in the fall of 2013. Why? Senator from Texas. because this is when he pushed his Republican colleagues to shut down the federal government as a last-ditch effort to stop Obamacare.
Madam President, I intend to speak in opposition to Obamacare. I intend to speak in support of defunding Obamacare until I am no longer able to stand.
And it was clear at the time that Ted Cruz had no path to victory here, that Barack Obama was not going to sign a measure to unwind his signature achievement. But the tactic, it was to fight, it was to fight, and it was to mobilize that anger and say, I am out here with you. I am willing to have this fight even if we can't win. And suddenly you see Democrats in the same place.
This last week, they were talking about using the exact same tool, shutting down the federal government without necessarily an endgame, that the fight itself was worth having because if you didn't have the fight, you weren't actually speaking to where Democratic voters are.
Right. And so this explains why your provocative question isn't necessarily that provocative. You're seeing evidence, you're saying, that the Democratic Party's mindset, especially among a group of voters, has changed.
And suddenly they're asking the question, should we be a party where fighting is the point, even if it means potentially shutting down the government, in order to fight President Trump?
It's anything to avoid the current status quo. And to be clear, this energy and this dynamic was there before this shutdown fight. And this split inside the Democratic Party, it sort of begins generationally. It's the younger generation of Democratic officials who are expressing the greatest level of frustration.
In the House of Representatives, there's a private text messaging chain among Democrats who've served for five terms or fewer. That means they've only served in the post-Trump era. The only Republican Party that they have seen is the changed post-Tea Party Republican Party.
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