This week, we interviewed two people with leading roles in the rapidly escalating conflict between the Trump administration and American higher education.Today, we speak with Christopher Rufo, who led the conservative critique of, and assault on, critical race theory and diversity, equity and inclusion efforts. Mr. Rufo’s vision and campaigning have helped inspire Trump’s wide-ranging crackdown on higher education.Earlier, we talked with Christopher L. Eisgruber, the president of Princeton University, about the institution’s path forward in the face of drastic funding cuts, and his vow to protect academic freedom at all costs. You can listen to that conversation here.Guest: Christopher Rufo, a conservative activist and writer.Background reading: Mr. Rufo helped make critical race theory a conservative rallying cry.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Photo: Chona Kasinger for The New York Times Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: Who is Christopher Rufo and what is his role in the critique of higher education?
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Over the past five years, the activist Christopher Ruffo has spearheaded the conservative critique of and direct assault on critical race theory and DEI.
Ruffo is likely the reason your conservative uncle knows the phrase critical race theory to begin with. He's the reason that Trump became obsessed with it as a buzz term for pretty much anything to do with race.
organizing remarkably effective campaigns against government offices, corporations, and especially American universities.
After weeks of intense scrutiny, Harvard University President Claudine Gay resigned today. Critics allege she plagiarized some of her academic writings. Chris Ruffo led a coalition of mostly right-wing opponents in a plan to remove Gay as Harvard's president.
Ruffo wrote scalped after Gay was forced out. In the process, Ruffo has become an influential voice in the ear of the Trump administration as it turns his strategy into a wide-ranging government crackdown on higher education.
The Trump administration canceling $400 million worth of grants and contracts for Columbia University.
$175 million at UPenn. $9 billion at Harvard. $790 million for Northwestern. And dozens of grants at Princeton University reportedly totaling hundreds of millions of dollars.
On Wednesday, we spoke about that crackdown with the president of Princeton University, Today, we ask Rufo just how far it will go. It's Friday, April 11th. Chad, Chad, you guys hear me? Is that Chris? Can he hear me? I can hear you. Well, Chris, welcome to The Daily. We appreciate you making time for us. It's good to be with you.
I'm curious, Chris, what it's like for you in this moment to watch this activism that I know you've pursued for so many years come to such full fruition under President Trump. Because in so many ways, your vision for how to challenge what universities in this country have become seems to have been adopted by the White House.
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Chapter 2: How did Christopher Rufo influence the Trump administration's education policies?
Yeah. So there's a short term answer and there's a long term answer. In the short term, I'd like to see the abolition of discriminatory DEI programs. I'd like to see colorblind admissions and a requirement that the universities publish disaggregated admissions and class rank data at the end of each year. So that you can see it for yourself.
Yeah, so that American taxpayers can have at least a proxy to determine whether or not universities are in the ballpark. of colorblind admissions. I'd like to see an overhaul of university hiring so that you have more philosophical balance on the faculty and you have an end to, again, kind of illegal discrimination in hiring and promotions. I think also standards of civil discourse.
So for example, there should be significant federal financial penalties for any university that allows masked protesters to take over campus spaces, to any university that allows building occupations, illegal encampments, the disruption of the educational program, or violence as we've seen, for example, in the wake of the Hamas terror attack against Israel.
Deplatforming and shouting down speakers, that kind of thing. There should be strict penalties for that because we can't have a good university system without basic standards of civil discourse.
And in this version of a university, would anything on the curriculum be off limits or would you be open to leaving that forever? and would the Trump administration be open to leaving that to the universities? I mean, could there be a critical race theory class, critical identities studies class, critical ethnic studies class?
I mention those because you have talked about those as being very problematic.
Yeah, I mean, look, universities are ultimately going to have to decide what they put into the course catalog. I don't think that the federal government should be micromanaging academic offerings to that extent. I think that's counterproductive. I think it's getting too far into the weeds.
That's where you draw the line in terms of academic freedom. The universities need to have that. So...
It's a little bit nuanced. So what I would say from the federal government perspective, the most successful policy reform areas are on university administration. That's where we have the most public support. That's where we have the most legal authority. That's where we have really the most kind of defensible territory for engaging in these reforms.
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